August 9, 2024 • 53 mins
In Episode 12 of *The Bible Says Podcast*, hosts Brandon Matheson and Matt Hunter continue their discussion on one of the most serious topics in Christianity: hell and the lake of fire. Building on what they talked about in the last episode, they take a closer look at what the Bible says about these places and what it means for everyone.
This episode helps you understand the difference between hell and the lake of fire, showing how they are described in the Bible and what their roles are in the afterlife. Brandon and Matt also explain terms like Gehenna, Tartarus, Sheol, and Hades, making it clear how these terms are used in Scripture. They talk about the real meaning behind these words and clear up some common misunderstandings, especially about eternal punishment.
Brandon and Matt’s goal is to help you see the truth in the Bible about what happens after we die, what eternal punishment looks like, and why it’s important to live a life connected to God. They encourage listeners to think about the eternal consequences of their choices and to align their beliefs with what the Bible truly says.
Join them as they break down these tough topics in a way that's easy to understand and meaningful for everyone.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon (00:21):
All right guys.
Welcome back to episode number12 of the Bible Says Podcast.
We have been talking about helland the lake of fire and we're
going to continue thatconversation tonight, as always.
We are thankful that you'rehere with us tonight.
My name is Brandon Matheson.
I'm Matt Hunter.
This is Matt Hunter.
Matt, just remind us real quickwhere you can find the Bible
(00:44):
Says podcast and share it.
Just remind everybody out therein the internet world.
Matt (00:50):
Okay, the easiest way to find it is
wwwthebiblesayspodcastcom.
Forward, slash, share andthat's got a list of all of our
podcast platforms that we're on,as well as all of our social
media on there our podcastplatforms that we're on, as well
as all of our social media onthere.
You can hit our TikTok YouTube,all that stuff.
Like share, comment.
We love the comments.
Brandon (01:12):
Good, good, you're helping us get our name out
there, getting more viewers, andplease do that, and we sure
appreciate it.
But we're glad that you're heretonight.
We're looking forward to whatthe Lord is going to share with
us and what we're going to learnfrom his word, because this is
a biblically-based podcast wherewe jump into the Bible.
(01:33):
It doesn't matter what I say,it doesn't matter what Matt says
, it matters what the Bible says.
We are jumping back into thepodcast tonight.
We man quite a jam-packed hourlast time when we were talking
about hell and the lake of fireSheol.
Matt (01:51):
Tartarus Paradise and Abraham's bosom.
Brandon (01:54):
Oh, my goodness, it's fascinating.
It's scary, but it's very, very, very real.
So, basically, just to kind ofsurmise, last time we talked
about several different terms.
We talked about Sheol and wetalked about Hades, and we
talked about the fact that theseare synonymous.
(02:16):
Hades is a Greek word, sheol isa Hebrew word.
These are describing the sameplace.
Okay, we saw Old Testamentstories where the earth opens up
and swallows down certainpeople because they had sinned
against God.
We read about that in Numbers,chapter 16, korah and those
(02:39):
associated with him.
We talked about the rich mandying and going to hell or Hades
, and in hell he opened up hiseyes, being in torment, engulfed
in flames, wanting a drop ofwater to be placed on his tongue
.
He could see across a divide oran expanse and he could see.
Abraham and Lazarus, but theycouldn't help him.
(03:01):
They couldn't help him.
We ended with, sadly, that manis still there in hell because
hell the bad side, has not beenemptied out.
Paradise, abraham's bosom, hasbeen emptied out, but everybody
that's ever gone to hellrejecting Christ is still there
(03:22):
and they're waiting until hellis emptied and they stand before
God for judgment.
We're going to talk about thattonight a little bit.
We also talked about Tartarus.
We talked about the angels thatsinned and they are held in a
special place I don't know ifspecial is the right word, but
it's a unique place calledTartarus and it's where they are
held waiting for judgment aswell, are held waiting for
(03:48):
judgment as well.
We left off last week or lastepisode talking about the fact
that Jesus, when he died on thecross, he was buried and his
body was placed in the grave forthree days and three nights.
But during those three days andthree nights, jesus, actually
his soul, went to hell, andPsalms talks about it that God,
the Father, will not leave hissoul in hell, won't suffer his
(04:08):
Holy One to see corruption.
Jesus actually goes to hell andleads those on the good side,
if you will, in that compartmenton the other side of the great
gulf or the great expanseseparating the torturous side,
the fire side, from the goodside.
He leads all of those peoplewho were there, takes all their
(04:31):
souls out, empties out, and Paultells us about it that he leads
captivity, captive and leadsthem out and leads them to
heaven.
So that's what we were talkingabout.
My goodness, it's quite asubject for sure, quite a
subject for sure.
So tonight, what we want to dois we want to pick up there,
noting that we have establishedthat hell is in the center of
(04:52):
the earth.
That is why there are versestalking about Satan going to and
fro in the earth.
Up and down in it there is aunderworld, if for lack of a
better term, and it is very,very, very real and there's a
lot of evidence to that.
Hell right now, hell is in thecenter of the earth.
(05:16):
You can prove that from theBible, you can prove it.
So we want to jump in.
There's another word.
We started last episode tellingyou that there are three words
in the Greek used for hell andone, excuse me, in the Hebrew
Sheol.
Obviously it's translated thepit, sometimes it's translated
(05:38):
hell, sometimes in the OldTestament, but it is Sheol.
The equivalent in the Greek isthe word Hades.
And then we looked at the wordTartarus, where the angels are
chained up in waiting for theirjudgment.
Then we are going to looktonight at the most translated
word, that's translated hell inour English language, especially
(06:02):
if you're using, like a KingJames version, and most of your
translations translate this hell.
It is the word, the Greek word,gehenna.
So there's four words in theBible, three in the Greek, one
in the Hebrew translated hell.
The last one that we want tolook at is the word Gehenna and
it's the Greek word.
Greek number in the lexicon1067.
(06:23):
And I want you to see thisbecause it is translated hell.
But it does not mean and it isnot what we surmise from
scripture.
It is not talking about theplace in the center of the earth
.
Let us explain what we meanhere.
The word Gehenna refers to aplace on the earth and it's
(06:49):
called it's in Jerusalem, okay,and it's called the Valley of
Hinnom, h-i-n-n-o-m.
The Valley of Hinnom, and ifyou were next to Jerusalem, it
is the valley that borders thecity of Jerusalem.
Okay, it's that valley, it isthe valley of Hinnom.
(07:11):
Now, if you study history inJesus's day because Jesus uses
this word and describes it, andI know there's a lot of
confusion.
Basically, what me and Mattwant you to understand is, every
time you see the word hell inyour English translation, you
need to know enough Greek to seeis it talking about Hades, is
(07:32):
it talking about Tartarus, is ittalking about Gehenna?
Because Gehenna is verydifferent than Hades and
Tartarus.
We want to be very clear aboutthat.
So you can't just see theEnglish word hell and
automatically think fire andpunishment, because it's not
always talking about the sameplace.
Matt (07:52):
Yeah, and it does denote a fire in some instances, right,
but we'll get into that once youexplain about that valley.
Brandon (08:08):
Fire doesn't always denote hell Exactly.
Some people every time you seefire or weeping or gnashing of
teeth, I've known many people.
Oh, that's talking about hell.
Matt (08:19):
They're going to hell.
That's talking about hell.
Brandon (08:21):
No, it's not.
We're going to show you tonight, Every time you see those words
fire.
We're going to show youinstances where God is talking
about saved believers who aregoing to be tested by what Fire,
Okay, and there's going to beweeping and gnashing of teeth of
believers.
We're going to see that, Okay.
So, and we're going to see thisword hell.
(08:44):
So let's talk about the Valleyof Hinnom In Jesus's day.
The Valley of Hinnom,H-I-N-N-O-M.
What was it, Matt, Tell us?
Matt (08:53):
about it.
So it's a.
It's a valley that runs rightbeside the city.
So in the ancient times you hadto.
You had a place where youdumped all your trash.
Okay, so it was the.
You didn't want it piling up inthe city, so what'd they do
with it?
They dumped it in a valleyoutside the gates of the city,
(09:17):
and which Gehenna, or the Valleyof Hinnom Right, is right
outside of Jerusalem.
Brandon (09:24):
So that's where they threw their trash.
It was, for lack of a betterterm, the dump.
Matt (09:28):
The garbage dump.
Brandon (09:29):
The garbage dump.
It was the trash can or thetrash heap of the city, and they
would burn the trash it almostcontinually burned.
It was a place of continualburning and it was burning up
their worthless stuff that theywanted to throw away.
(09:51):
Okay, so that's going to bevery important as we explain
Gehenna, or hell, translatedmany times in your Bible.
So you've got to get a tool anda resource on your phone or an
iPad or computer or old, youknow, hardcover book that you
can look up these words and know, when you're reading your Bible
(10:13):
, what it's talking about.
So Gehenna was the Valley ofHinnom that runs alongside
Jerusalem, and it was the trashheap, it was the trash dump.
They would throw their trashout there, they would burn their
trash out there and it wasalmost always on fire.
Why is that important?
(10:33):
Let's read a couple scripturesthat are translated hell in your
Bible, but it's actually it istranslated the word hell, but
it's the word Gehenna.
Let's look at this, matthew.
I'll read the first one, youtake the next one, we'll just go
back and forth.
Let's look at four or five ofthese right here and we'll take
a look and see what God istalking about here, and I want
(10:55):
you to see if you can spot thedifferences in these stories.
So, matthew, chapter 5, this isthe Sermon on the Mount.
Okay, now watch this right here.
Jesus is saying in the Sermon onthe Mount.
He is saying that if yourrighteousness has to exceed the
righteousness of the scribes andthe Pharisees, or you're not
(11:18):
even entering into the kingdomof heaven.
And then he goes on and he saysyou have heard that it was said
by them of old time thou shaltnot kill, and whosoever shall
kill shall be in danger of thejudgment.
But I say unto you thatwhosoever is angry with his
brother without a cause shall bein danger of the judgment.
Whosoever shall say to hisbrother, raka, shall be in
danger of the council, butwhosoever shall say thou fool,
(11:39):
shall be in danger of hell fire.
Okay, so that is the wordGehenna he will be in danger.
If you look at your brother andsay, thou fool, you're in danger
of Gehenna.
And what in the world does thatmean?
You're in danger of the citydump, you're in danger of the
(12:02):
trash heap, you're in danger ofthe valley where we burn our
trash in.
Okay, what If you not onlydon't obey the commandments but
have the right heart behind it?
So Jesus is getting it.
Look, you need to have theright heart towards your
brothers.
Not just do the right thing buthave the right outlook, even
(12:24):
inside your heart, or you're indanger of hell fire.
He says Okay, let's look at thenext one, chapter 5, verse 29,.
Still the Sermon on the Mount.
Matt (12:33):
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and
cast it from thee, For it isprofitable for thee that one of
thy members should perish, andnot that thy whole body should
be cast into hell.
Brandon (12:46):
So Jesus here is teaching, he's going beyond the
law.
He's saying don't look at youknow, he said don't commit
adultery, don't even look at awoman to commit adultery.
If you look at women to commitadultery, you might as well
you'd be better off to pluck outyour eyes so you can't look at
a woman to commit adultery withher in your heart, because it's
(13:08):
better that you go in.
It says that it is better,profitable for thee that one of
thy members should perish, oryour I perish, and that that
whole body, then that that wholebody should be cast into
Gehenna.
Okay, the trash heap, theburning place, the city dump, if
(13:30):
you will.
Okay.
So this is used.
These are all scripturereferences to hell.
So is it talking about hell inthe center of the earth?
Or is it talking about seewhat's Jesus saying?
He's saying hey, don't obey thecommand not to commit adultery.
Don't even think aboutcommitting adultery.
Not only don't go commitadultery with a woman, don't
(13:52):
even think about it, don't evenlook at her.
Pluck out your eye.
If that's the problem, why?
So you don't end up on thetrash heap?
That's what he's saying.
Okay, that is the translationGehenna.
Okay.
So we've got to understand.
Let's keep looking.
Chapter number 5, verse number30.
And if thy right hand offendthee, cut it off and cast it
from thee, for it is profitablefor thee that one of thy members
(14:13):
should perish, and not that thywhole body should be cast into
hell.
So same thing.
Plug out your eye so you don'tend up in Gehenna.
Okay, cut off your hand so youdon't end up in Gehenna.
Let's read on A few chaptersover.
Matt (14:27):
Okay, so Matthew 10 and 28 .
And fear not them which killthe body but are not able to
kill the soul, but rather fearhim which is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell.
Okay.
Brandon (14:42):
So he says both your soul and your body can be
destroyed in hell or in Gehennais the word used there.
Now, what we want you to see islet me show you a couple other
scriptures here.
Gehenna, okay, if we look at.
(15:06):
Let me see here.
Just see this 1 Corinthians,chapter number three, verse
number nine.
This is one of the mostimportant, often overlooked
passages in all of the Bible 1Corinthians, chapter number
three.
And this is where the Bibletalks about when you live your
(15:36):
life in a way that honors God,that you are gonna receive at
the judgment seat of Christ.
You are gonna receive rewards.
You are gonna receive authority.
You are going to receiveauthority.
You are going to get to partakein and be a part of the kingdom
of God.
You're going to be givenauthority.
This is the parable of thetalents.
(15:56):
This is the parable of theowner of the vineyard coming
back and rewarding people whomanaged his property Right.
All these stories that Jesustold.
The parable of the talents Onewas given five and two and one,
and how they handled all that.
Here is what Jesus said in 1Corinthians, chapter number
(16:18):
three.
Through the apostle Paul, hesays this we are laborers
together with God.
Ye are God's husbandry, ye areGod's building.
According to the grace of Godwhich is given unto me as a wise
master builder, I have laid thefoundation and another buildeth
thereon.
But let every man take heed howhe buildeth thereupon, for
(16:40):
other foundation can no man laythan that is laid, which is
Jesus Christ.
So Paul says look, you guys,you are essentially a building
and you have a foundation.
And the foundation of yourbuilding, of your life, is Jesus
Christ.
So if you have that foundation,you are building on the
foundation of Jesus Christ, andif you don't have the foundation
(17:01):
of Jesus Christ, you don'tbelong to God, you're not God's
building Christ.
And if you don't have thefoundation of Jesus Christ, you
don't belong to God, you're notGod's building.
And so you've got to have noother foundation can be laid
than Jesus Christ.
But then he says this, the veryfamous passage of scripture,
verse 12.
Now, if any man build upon thisfoundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay,stubble every man's work shall
be made manifest.
(17:22):
So he lists out six buildingmaterials or six building blocks
that you can build on thefoundation of Jesus.
You can build out of gold,silver or precious stone.
You can build out of wood, hayor stubble.
Now, of these six, we candivide them into three
categories Wood, hay and stubbleare very temperable flammable
materials.
(17:43):
Gold, silver and precious stoneis not very flammable, okay.
In fact, fire refines it.
Why are we talking about fire?
Because every man's work verse13, will be manifest for the day
or the day of the Lord shalldeclare it, because it shall be
revealed or tested by fire.
So, if you're a Christian,you're building on the
(18:05):
foundation of Jesus Christ andguess what?
Your house that you're buildingon that foundation is going to
be tested by fire.
Does it mean you're going to goto hell?
No, because fire is not alwayssynonymous with hell.
We're talking about hell,gehenna, here.
But what I want you tounderstand is that you are going
to be tested by fire, and theBible says it will be revealed
(18:29):
by fire.
And the fire shall try everyman's work, of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide, orabide on the foundation right,
which is Jesus, which he hasbuilt thereupon, he shall
receive a reward.
If any man's work shall beburned, he shall suffer loss.
Okay, so you're going to bebuilding on the foundation.
(18:51):
God's going to test what youbuild gold, silver, precious
stones, wood, hay or stubble.
If it's consumed and burned up,you suffer loss, the Bible says
.
But if it stands the test offire, you receive a reward.
Now look at the end of the verse.
But he himself.
If any man's work shall beburned, he shall suffer loss,
(19:11):
but he himself shall be saved,yet so as by fire.
So what Paul is teaching us isevery one of us, as Christians
are going to be, have our workstested by fire, not in order to
go to heaven, not our sin, butour works that we have built on
the foundation of Jesus Christ.
And do my works get burnt up ordo they stand the test of fire?
(19:36):
If they stand the test, Ireceive a reward.
If they don't stand the test, Idon't receive a reward.
What are we saying here?
Matt (19:47):
I like that analogy because the key piece of it
you're building, but thefoundation, the rock that you're
building on, doesn't goanywhere.
Fire doesn't affect the rock.
Brandon (20:06):
That's right, it's absolutely right.
You cannot destroy thatfoundation that you have.
You can't.
So what we're getting at hereis that everyone is going to
stand the test of fire.
Everyone is going to stand thetest of fire, and you remember
that passage of scripture wherePaul said that?
(20:27):
He said I run so that I canobtain, so that my life and I'm
paraphrasing is not shipwrecked.
I run to obtain a reward.
And then, at the end of hislife, I have fought a good fight
, I've finished the court, runmy race.
I'm paraphrasing, but he'stalking about running, and
(20:48):
sometimes you get this urgencyin Paul that he did not want to
be and people misconstrue whathe's saying.
I don't want my life to beshipwrecked.
He's not talking about losinghis salvation.
He is talking about listen tome, and this is where it
connects.
He is talking about having hislife be worthless and thrown on
(21:08):
the trash heap called Gehenna.
Okay, now let me give you astory that drives this home, and
maybe let's go to one of themost misunderstood two chapters
in all the Bible Matthew,chapter 24 and verse 25.
Um, there was a this is theOlivet discourse and there was a
(21:34):
guy.
This is the parable of thetalents.
Jesus says and I'm going tojust surmise it for you that the
kingdom of heaven is is a mantraveling into a far country and
he has these three servants.
To the first servant, he givesfive talents to invest and to
build his business.
To the next, he gives twotalents.
(21:55):
To the next, he gives one.
Well, if you know the story,the one with five talents put
his master's money to work andhe made five more talents.
And his Lord said unto himverse 21, well done thou, good
and faithful servant.
Thou hast been faithful over afew things.
I will make thee ruler, keyword over many things.
(22:16):
Enter thou into the joy of thyLord.
He also, that had received twotalents, came and said Lord,
thou deliverest unto me twotalents.
Behold, I have gained two othertalents.
So the guy that had five nowhas 10.
The guy that has two now hasfour.
They've been pretty faithful.
And his Lord said unto him welldone, good and faithful servant
(22:37):
, thou hast been faithful over afew things.
I will make the ruler over manythings.
Enter thou into the joy of thyLord.
Then he which had received theone talent, came and said Lord,
I knew thee that thou art anhard man, reaping where thou
hast not sown and gatheringwhere thou hast not strawed.
And I was afraid and went andhid thy talent in the earth.
(22:59):
Lo, there thou hast, that isthine.
So he took his one talent andhe went and hid it in the ground
and he brings it back to hisLord and he says I still got my
talent or your talent.
Here you go, and he gives itback, and his Lord answered and
said unto him thou wicked,wicked and slothful or lazy
servant, thou knewest that Ireap where I sowed not, and
(23:22):
gather where I have not strawed.
Thou oughtest therefore to haveput my money to the exchangers
and then, at my coming, I shouldhave received mine own with
usury.
You should have put my money inthe bank and at least got a
little bit of interest off of it.
But watch what he says here.
Take, therefore, the talentfrom him and give it unto him,
which hath ten talents.
So he takes his talent from theone that did nothing with his
(23:45):
talent, he loses everything hehad.
Okay, and his talent's takenand given to the guy that had
ten that did the most with it.
Okay, for unto watch this,because this bugs a lot of
people, but this is what we'retrying to drive home to you, for
unto you, for unto everyone,that hath shall be given.
(24:06):
So if you have, you'll be givenmore and he shall have
abundance.
But from him that hath notshall be taken away.
Even that which he hath.
Watch this shall be taken away,even that which he hath.
Watch this.
And cast ye, the unprofitableservant, into outer darkness.
There shall be weeping andgnashing of teeth.
(24:28):
Okay, so here this servant,what he had, is taken away
because it didn't even belong tohim.
The talent is taken and givento the guy that has 10.
And then what happens?
That servant, who'sunprofitable, is cast into outer
darkness.
Now, most people that read this,they automatically assume this
(24:50):
is talking about hell Cast intoouter darkness.
There should be weeping andgnashing of teeth.
This is not talking about hell.
This is not talking about theplace in the center of the earth
where punishment and torment ismeted out.
What is this?
This is Jesus describing hiskingdom.
If you notice, it says thekingdom of heaven is, as so,
(25:11):
god's kingdom.
Jesus's kingdom is described asbeing you're either a
profitable servant or you're anunprofitable servant.
And if you're unprofitable,what are you going to do?
You are going to be in outerdarkness.
Now, what I'm telling you maybe foreign to your ears, but
devout studiers of the Biblethat study the Greek will tell
(25:33):
you okay, go look up ChuckMissler, go look up his teaching
on outer darkness.
Okay, brilliant man who's inheaven now.
And he says that how we shouldtranslate outer darkness is
darkness that is farther awayfrom the light, or the darkness
farther away.
Serious theologians in the Greekway, smarter than I am, come to
(25:57):
this understanding that whenthe word outer darkness is used
three times all in Matthew, itis not referring to hell.
It is referring to unprofitableservants not being given the
same rewards and inheritance asthose who are profitable.
(26:18):
In other words, their eternityand their life ends up on the
trash heap the Gehenna, the hellof this earth and the afterlife
.
So what are we saying?
Let me just sum this up.
And then Matt wants to chime in.
And then Matt wants to chime in.
(26:38):
Gehenna is used as anillustration by Jesus to explain
the negative consequences thatsin can have in the life of a
believer, in this life and inthe afterlife.
It is used to reference and bean example of a place of
exclusion from the blessing andthere's weeping and gnashing of
(27:01):
teeth because of the regret ofnot having built a better house
on the foundation of Christ.
Yeah, okay.
Matt (27:13):
And it all lines up together, even the judgment,
where it's whether your worksare good or not, whether they're
going to be burned up or not.
And the talents Honestly, Ilike the word talents, even
though I know it means money Inour world and society.
(27:37):
Talents, a person's talent,something that they're good at,
something that they can do.
Are they using it for thekingdom?
That's right and are theygiving it back to God to use for
the kingdom?
Brandon (27:50):
The Greek word that Paul uses are you doing with
your life?
In the English we don't reallyget it translated from the Greek
it says are you doing good orbad?
But if you look up good and badthe words that Paul uses, are
you doing worthwhile things orworthless things?
Okay, are you and I think Jesussums it up in the parable of
(28:12):
the talents the unprofitableservant.
So, are you profitable to thekingdom of God or are you
unprofitable?
If you're profitable, you'regoing to have, when your works
are tested, you are going toreceive a greater reward, okay,
and be included in someblessings that some others are
not.
My old preacher used to saysome of you are going to get to
(28:34):
the kingdom of God to themillennium where Jesus sets up
his kingdom, and you're going tolive to the kingdom of God to
the millennium where Jesus setsup his kingdom, and you're going
to live in the ghetto.
I think Gehenna drives home thepoint that it is the trash heap
outside of the city where Jesusputs his name.
Matt (28:49):
That was just it.
That was part of the ghetto ofthe city.
That's where the lowest of thelow, the outcasts, the beggars,
the lepers, were forced intothose areas and literally saying
okay, you're going to be in theValley of Hinnom.
(29:10):
If you're not profitable, ifyou're not using your talents
and gifts that God gave you forhis kingdom, your life is going
to end up in that valley.
Brandon (29:27):
And also there's a context we're talking about at
the end of our life in thekingdom of God, but there's also
a context now.
Now, if I am unprofitable forthe Lord, I can turn my life
right now as a believer into aliving hell, a trash heap, and I
can waste and make a mess of mylife compared to hell With just
(29:50):
a few decisions.
That's right.
It just turned like that.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so I hope I know this isa little bit different, maybe,
than what some of you have everheard.
Every time the word hell istranslated in your Bible does
not necessarily mean the sameplace.
There is a place in the centerof the earth, sheol, hades.
It is a place of punishment.
(30:11):
It used to be a holding placecalled paradise and Abraham's
bosom that has been emptied out.
Called paradise and Abraham'sbosom that has been emptied out.
But there's also a place calledGehenna.
Okay, that is the context isapplied when Jesus uses it.
Okay, to the life of anunprofitable servant that you
(30:31):
can turn your life into.
You can miss out on, beexcluded from the blessings and
miss out due to negativeconsequences of sin in your life
and in the afterlife.
Your life can be basically hellthe trash heap, if you will.
So that's the context, matt.
Anything else to add therebefore we move on to the last
(30:53):
few couple terms that we want touse in this discussion on hell
and the lake of fire?
Matt (31:00):
I don't believe, so Got it all out.
One thing we need to discussone time is the difference in
children and servants.
How they're the same Right sowe're all children of God when
you're saved and how you're alsoa servant or a bond slave.
Brandon (31:21):
Right.
Matt (31:23):
Those different things.
I think, that's veryinteresting how the son and the
prodigal son comes back.
He wants to be the servant, sowe have to have the attitude of
the servant, even though we area servant, right.
Brandon (31:36):
And that dovetails into what is an heir.
The Bible says that we areheirs of God and joint heirs
with Christ, but then it says ifwe suffer with him, we'll reign
with him, and things like that.
So there is an inheritance thatcomes from being a son and a
daughter, but there's also aninheritance and blessing that
comes with being faithful.
So we can look at all thosedifferent things and absolutely
(31:59):
we want to move on to the end ofthis discussion, not the end of
it.
But we have been talking aboutwhat's the difference in hell
and the lake of fire and youknow, for the last couple
episodes up until this point, wehaven't talked about the lake
of fire one time We've talkedabout hell in the center of the
earth, sheol and Hades.
We've talked about Gehennabeing applied predominantly to
(32:21):
believers, but we've also wewant to move into so what's the
difference, brandon, in hell andthe lake of fire?
Well, there's a huge difference, absolutely huge difference.
Okay, in fact, if we go to thebook of Revelation, we see that
there's about five times thatthe word lake of fire is used,
(32:44):
and they're all used in the bookof Revelation.
And we want to look at that andI think, as we look at these
five verses, it'll begin to makesense to you.
Remember hell in context of thecenter of the earth, the place
of punishment.
Hell in context of the centerof the earth, the place of
punishment, the place of firewhere unbelievers go, who reject
Christ, even up until this day.
If you died today withoutChrist, you go to hell.
(33:06):
But what we're about to showyou is that hell is not a
permanent place.
It will be emptied out and youwill be judged and thrown into a
different place called the lakeof fire.
Revelation chapter.
Matt (33:17):
Excuse me, excuse me, number 19, verse 20 okay, and
the beast was taken, and withhim the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him withwhich he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beastand them that worshiped his
image.
These both were cast alive intothe lake of fire, burning with
(33:38):
brimstone.
Brandon (33:39):
All right.
So here we have the beast andthe false prophet from the
seven-year tribulation.
We have them, and what happensAt the end of the tribulation?
The Bible says that the beastwas taken and the false prophet
and thrown alive into the lakeof fire burning with brimstone.
(34:01):
So this is the first time thatwe see the lake of fire
mentioned and it is to bedifferentiated from hell because
it's not the same place.
All right, so we'll look at thenext one.
If you flip one page over tochapter 20, verse number 10, the
lake of fire is mentioned againand it says this and the devil
that deceived them was cast intothe lake of fire and brimstone,
(34:24):
where the beast and falseprophet are and shall be
tormented day and night, foreverand ever.
So in the span of Revelation,the span of one chapter, we're
at the end of the tribulationthat the beast and the false
prophet are thrown into the lakeof fire.
We know that Satan is chainedup at that point for a little
while, for a thousand years, andat the end of the thousand
(34:46):
years we talked about this acouple episodes ago at the end
of the thousand years he leadsone more revolt and rebellion,
and at the end of the millennium, so a thousand years after the
beast and false prophet arethrown into the lake of fire.
Verse number 10 of chapter 20tells us that Satan himself is
thrown into the lake of firethat burns with brimstone, and
(35:09):
it says that he, where the beastand false prophet are, and they
or it doesn't say, they, itsays and shall be tormented day
and night, forever and ever.
So here we see the lake of fire.
We know of three residentsthere at the end of Revelation
the beast, the false prophet,and at the end of the literal,
thousand-year, millennial reignof Christ, we see Satan thrown
(35:29):
in there.
Okay, and it is a place oftorment, day and night, forever
and ever.
So it is a couple of things.
It is similar to hell in thatthere's torment.
Remember the rich man he liftedup his eyes being in hell,
being in torment.
Okay, I'm tormented in thisflame, he said Okay, so it's a
place of torment, but here, allright, we see something that's
(35:54):
different than hell, than thelake of fire.
They are tormented day andnight, forever and ever.
So there is.
The Bible states that it iseternal torment.
Okay, and I'll read verse 14,and then, matt, you read verse
number.
Actually, I'll read these twoand you would go to 21, because
(36:14):
they're back to back.
Verse 14 in chapter 20, itmentions it again in death and
hell were cast into the lake offire.
Let's just read this for asecond.
At the end of verse 10, satanis thrown into the lake of fire.
And then the Bible says and Isaw a great white throne and him
that sat on it, from whose facethe earth and the heaven fled
(36:36):
away.
There was found no place forthem.
We talked about the great whitethrone judgment a couple
episodes ago.
This is where everybody who isrejected Christ gets a fair
trial.
But watch what it says.
It says in verse 14, and deathand hell were cast into the lake
of fire.
If you read the whole accountof the great white throne
judgment, death and hell, theBible says that the dead, small
(36:59):
and great, stand before God,before this great white throne.
So after Satan is thrown intothe lake of fire, hell, the
place we talked about lastepisode in detail, is emptied
out.
Everybody who's there, remember.
Hell is a place of the dead, ofthe damned.
It is not eternal life whereheaven is, it is eternal
damnation.
Okay, so hell is emptied out.
(37:28):
So that's what is meant by whenit says the dead stand before
God.
Hell is emptied out.
Verse 14 kind of sheds somelight on it.
And death and hell were castinto the lake of fire.
So hell is a place that isemptied out, it is a place of
death.
Everyone who is dead and hasbeen in hell stands before the
great white throne judgment andis judged, and then they are
cast into the lake of fire.
(37:50):
So here I want you to don'tmiss this Hell is a temporary
place.
Hell is emptied out.
Those people stand before Godand then those people are cast
into the lake of fire.
And then verse 15 says andwhosoever was not found written
in the book of life was castinto the lake of fire.
So the lake of fire is a placeof torment.
(38:10):
It's an eternal place.
Hell is not an eternal place.
Okay, place, okay.
Now remember, as we go into the,from this point on, what
happens chapter number 21,.
The old heaven and the oldearth are done away with and
there's a new heaven and a newearth.
Where was hell at this point?
(38:31):
Hell at this point, and we'realive today, in 2024, and at
this point hell has always beenin the center of the earth, but
now hell is emptied out, thosepeople are cast into the lake of
fire and the actual earth isdone away with, new heaven, new
earth created.
Lake of fire is not on thisearth, it is somewhere else.
(38:52):
Okay, so these are all bigthoughts and crazy ideas, but
this is what the Bible says.
So anybody that was not foundtheir name written in the book
of life was cast into the lakeof fire.
That's a crazy thought.
Crazy thought.
So you got chapter 21.
Matt (39:12):
21 and 8.
But the fearful and unbelievingand the abominable and the
murderers and the whoremongersand the sorcerers and the
idolaters and all liars shallhave their part in the lake
which burneth with fire andbrimstone, which is the second
death.
Brandon (39:30):
Yeah, it is the second death.
Think about that for a second.
It is the second death.
Verse number 14 of chapter 20refers to that as well.
So does chapter 21,.
Verse number 8.
And so it twice refers to thelake of fires.
(39:54):
The second death, because whenyou receive Christ, you gain
eternal life.
I, for God, so loved the worldthat he gave his only begotten
son that whosoever believeth inhim should not perish but have
everlasting life.
When you believe in Jesus, youhave a life eternal.
When you reject Christ and youdie and go to hell currently,
(40:17):
and then one day, hell isemptied out and you stand before
God and you're judged for yoursin.
You rejected Christ.
Your name's not written in thebook of life, so you're thrown
into the lake of fire.
That is known verse 14 ofchapter 20 and verse eight of
chapter 21, as the second death.
Why is that?
Because Romans 6.23 says forthe wages of sin is death.
(40:42):
So what is the lake of fire?
The lake of fire is continualdeath, torment, eternal death,
forever.
Okay.
Matt (40:54):
Yeah, and I wonder if second death is referring to.
First your soul ended up inhell, right, the first death of
your soul, and then this is thesecond death of your soul, right
or is?
It referencing the death ofyour body, the physical death.
And then this is the seconddeath.
This is the death of your body,the physical death and then the
second death is the death ofyour soul, right?
Brandon (41:14):
yeah, I would probably lean toward the death of the
body and the death, thepermanent death, the eternal
death.
So this is fascinating.
And some more scriptures todrive this home, and we'll wind
down this conversation.
Matthew chapter 25 has a fewscriptures here and we'll look
at them.
This is the sermon that Jesusgave.
(41:37):
This is what they call theOlivet Discourse, matthew
chapter 24 and 25.
And then I want you to readthese stories.
We looked at the parable of thetalents and we found out that it
meant something a little bitdifferent than most of us have
been taught.
But look at the end of theOlivet Discourse, matthew
chapter 25.
This is the sheep and the goatjudgment, if you will.
(41:59):
And Matthew chapter 25, and youget down to verse number 41,.
It says this, by the way, and Iwant to hone in on this,
because a lot of us have beentaught that hell remember we're
talking about hell and the lakeof fire and the difference We've
been taught that well, one day,if you reject Christ, you die
(42:21):
and go to hell forever.
We have learned over the lastcouple hours of Bible talk you
don't go to hell forever.
You go to hell now.
But hell will be emptied outand you'll stand before God and
be judged at the great whitethrone.
If you reject Christ and yourname's not found written in the
book of life, then you are castinto the lake of fire.
So you don't go to hell forever, you go to hell temporarily if
(42:42):
you reject Christ and yourname's not written in the book
of life, and you go to the lakeof fire forever.
But we've also been taught thathell was made for the devil and
his angels.
I've heard that all my life.
That's not true.
It's not true.
Verse 41 of Matthew, chapter 5,says this.
Then shall he say also untothem on the left hand Depart
(43:04):
from me.
Ye cursed into, watch thiseverlasting fire prepared for
the devil and his angels.
Okay, remember, this is talkingabout the lake of fire.
Everlasting, never-ending fireis not talking about hell,
because hell is in the center ofthe earth.
That will be done away with andemptied out.
(43:24):
The place created for the deviland his angels is the lake of
fire.
Okay, so hell?
So what was hell originallycreated for in the center of the
earth?
That's another question.
That rabbit hole you could godown there.
Uh, before sin entered into theearth.
Uh, so yeah, or pre-creation.
(43:48):
Okay, we'll tease this if youbuy into a gap theory of some
kind, was there life thatpermeated inside and outside of
the earth?
We won't chase that rabbittonight.
Matt (44:09):
Yeah, I don't know if we could ever know that we won't
chase that rabbit tonight.
Brandon (44:12):
that rabbit tonight, yeah, I don't know if we could
ever know that we won't chasethat rabbit tonight.
But so Matthew 25, verse 41says that the lake of fire was
created for devil and his angels, not hell, the lake of fire,
and it refers to it as a placeof everlasting fire.
And I want to leave you ontonight as we wind down.
We want to leave you with twowords that we have not yet
discussed, that do reference theafterlife, the hell and the
(44:35):
lake of fire conversation.
And that comes from Matthew 25as well, and it is the parable
of the sheep and goat judgments.
And this is at the end of thetribulation.
This is when God's kingdom,jesus, is setting up his kingdom
, and he divides the sheep andthe goats, okay, and the sheep
(44:57):
are on his right hand and thegoats are on his left.
And basically he tells themthat you know they can, the
sheep, that they can go into thekingdom prepared for them from
the foundation of the world, thekingdom prepared for them from
the foundation of the world.
And he tells the sheep he saidwhen I was hungry, you gave me
eat.
When I was thirsty, you gave medrink.
(45:18):
And he goes through this longlitany.
He said well, when did we dothis for you?
And he said if you have done itto the least of these, my
brethren, you have done it untome, my brethren, you have done
it unto me.
Okay, so this is a reference tothe tribulation and those how
they.
It's basically how they treatthe Jewish people during the
(45:39):
tribulation.
It is divided.
The believers and those thathad accepted Christ treated
Israel good Jesus' brethren.
Those that treated him, treatedthe brethren of Jesus, the
Jewish people, negatively arethe goats.
So the sheep are on the righthand, the goats are on the left.
And notice what it says here Inverse number.
(46:03):
Let me find it here.
Is it 31?
That tells the whole story.
But where does it say abouteternal?
I've got verse 46, but it alsosays 41, the left hand, yep, so
those on the left hand.
It says.
Jesus says to them depart fromme.
You cursed into everlastingfire, prepared for the devil and
(46:26):
his angels.
So it is everlasting fire.
So the lake of fire iseverlasting fire.
That is a term attributed tothe lake of fire.
And in verse number 46, it saysand these shall go away into
everlasting punishment, but therighteous unto life eternal.
So the kingdom of God or thosewho rejected Christ are
(46:55):
everlasting punishment,everlasting fire, and that is
equivalent to the lake of fire.
Matt (47:00):
Yeah, that's a pretty wild way to tie this into the Great
White Throne judgment.
Right, because the punishmentthat he's meeting out is
literally the lake of fire.
Right, the permanent lake offire.
Right, the permanent right lakeof fire.
So it's the same right scene,right, one taught from jesus on
(47:22):
earth, the other taught by john,that he sees in heaven right,
absolutely well.
Brandon (47:28):
And if this scene in chapter 25, verse 31 through 46,
is at the end of thetribulation, okay, notice what
he says.
He sentences them, the goats,to everlasting punishment,
everlasting fire.
So they are sent, the beast andthe false prophet are sentenced
(47:52):
to the lake of fire.
The goats are sentenced to theeverlasting, like you know it
doesn't say lake of fire but itsays everlasting punishment and
everlasting fire.
So they're not going to hell atthe end of the tribulation,
they're going straight to thelake of fire, even though those
in hell don't stand before thegreat white throne for another
thousand years.
(48:13):
So that's an interesting ifthis is at the end of the
tribulation, if the timing of itis that which most people think
, that it is the OlivetDiscourse.
So, my goodness, we have reallydug into over the last little
while, a deep dive into hell.
Matt (48:35):
Yeah, we don't want to dive in there too deep.
Brandon (48:38):
We don't want to go there.
Matt (48:39):
I don't want to experience it, but for lack of a better
term, it's been you guys don'twant to go there or experience
it either.
Brandon (48:47):
Yeah, lack of a better term.
It's been a heck of a subject,though right it has.
I mean, yeah, it's crazy andit's not to be laughed at.
It's very serious.
But the Bible is clear thatthere's a hell.
It is Sheol called Hades.
It's in the center of the earth.
There's also a term used, hellin most of our English
translations, called Gehenna,and that is reference to
(49:10):
believers who can have theirlife and their afterlife end up
on the trash heap and sufferloss even though themselves will
be saved.
And then we talked about thelake of fire.
The permanent, eternal fire andeternal punishment of those who
are not found in their namesare not found in the book of
life, and it is an eternal placeof torment.
Matt (49:35):
Yeah, and probably one of the biggest things to take away
from, honestly, the last severalepisodes is that everyone's
heaven is not going to be thesame Right.
Right that flies in the face ofso many closely tightly held
beliefs that, oh, you know, theydied and they go to heaven.
(49:58):
They're rejoicing.
Brandon (50:00):
Riding around on a cloud, riding around on the
clouds with a harp and all thatstuff.
Matt (50:06):
And it goes in the face of all that.
But that's what the Bibleteaches Right that everyone's
going to be different, even whenwe get to heaven.
It is not like the utopianeverybody gets the same income
level like people think of hereon earth.
Brandon (50:22):
Let me say my thoughts on this.
And I believe that you and I,who are saved, now we need to do
worthwhile things instead ofworthless.
We need to be profitable andnot unprofitable to our Lord.
If we are profitable, god isjust and he will reward us.
Now, now get this in hiskingdom, his 1000 year kingdom.
(50:43):
We will be rewarded.
We will rule and reign with him.
If we are unprofitable in thislife, Now, I think we we are
held back and excluded fromcertain blessings.
Okay, we end up on the valleyof Hinnom, if you will.
We suffer loss and we enterinto the thousand-year reign,
(51:05):
having to relearn for 1,000years how to be in the image of
Christ, our Savior, while we'rebeing ruled over by Christ, our
King, along with our profitablebrothers and sisters ruling over
us as well.
And I believe that's why it isweeping and gnashing of teeth
because of regret for what Icould have had.
(51:27):
But when we reach the end ofthe millennium, my belief is
that we enter eternity andeverybody has learned at that
point.
But I believe the kingdom, the1,000 years, is a retraining
ground for those of us whodidn't learn in this life.
That's what I think.
So, okay, am I right, I don'tknow on that.
Matt (51:48):
We'll have to debate that sometime.
Brandon (51:50):
That's what I suspect.
All right, hey guys, we'regoing to leave it there tonight.
This is the Bible Says podcast.
It's been great, as always.
It's phenomenal.
Matt, thank you for being suchan awesome co-host here, and it
is good.
Hey, dig in this, get in yourBible.
If you got questions orsomething doesn't make sense,
chime in.
Yeah, definitely share thebroadcast.
(52:11):
And yeah, if you just thinkwe're just out there in the
weeds you want to debate, bringit on, we'll talk about it.
Hey, we can be wrong, I promiseyou that.
But we try to be faithful tothe Word of God.
We don't try to read into thescriptures, we try to be
faithful.
So pray for us.
We'll pray for you and by allmeans, if you don't know the
Lord as your Savior, don't riskhell and don't risk the lake of
(52:33):
fire eternally.
Turn to Jesus.
He loved you, he died for you.
No-transcript.
(52:55):
Jesus saves, jesus loves you.
Y'all have a great night andwe'll see you next time.
I think next time is episode 13, if I'm not mistaken, of the
Bible Says Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
Have a great night.
God bless you.
The Bible says the Bible sayspodcast.
All right guys.
Welcome back to episode number12 of the Bible Says Podcast.
We have been talking about helland the lake of fire and we're
going to continue thatconversation tonight, as always.
We are thankful that you'rehere with us tonight.
My name is Brandon Matheson.
I'm Matt Hunter.
This is Matt Hunter.
Matt, just remind us real quickwhere you can find the Bible
(00:44):
Says podcast and share it.
Just remind everybody out therein the internet world.
Matt (00:50):
Okay, the easiest way to find it is
wwwthebiblesayspodcastcom.
Forward, slash, share andthat's got a list of all of our
podcast platforms that we're on,as well as all of our social
media on there our podcastplatforms that we're on, as well
as all of our social media onthere.
You can hit our TikTok YouTube,all that stuff.
Like share, comment.
We love the comments.
Brandon (01:12):
Good, good, you're helping us get our name out
there, getting more viewers, andplease do that, and we sure
appreciate it.
But we're glad that you're heretonight.
We're looking forward to whatthe Lord is going to share with
us and what we're going to learnfrom his word, because this is
a biblically-based podcast wherewe jump into the Bible.
(01:33):
It doesn't matter what I say,it doesn't matter what Matt says
, it matters what the Bible says.
We are jumping back into thepodcast tonight.
We man quite a jam-packed hourlast time when we were talking
about hell and the lake of fireSheol.
Matt (01:51):
Tartarus Paradise and Abraham's bosom.
Brandon (01:54):
Oh, my goodness, it's fascinating.
It's scary, but it's very, very, very real.
So, basically, just to kind ofsurmise, last time we talked
about several different terms.
We talked about Sheol and wetalked about Hades, and we
talked about the fact that theseare synonymous.
(02:16):
Hades is a Greek word, sheol isa Hebrew word.
These are describing the sameplace.
Okay, we saw Old Testamentstories where the earth opens up
and swallows down certainpeople because they had sinned
against God.
We read about that in Numbers,chapter 16, korah and those
(02:39):
associated with him.
We talked about the rich mandying and going to hell or Hades
, and in hell he opened up hiseyes, being in torment, engulfed
in flames, wanting a drop ofwater to be placed on his tongue
.
He could see across a divide oran expanse and he could see.
Abraham and Lazarus, but theycouldn't help him.
(03:01):
They couldn't help him.
We ended with, sadly, that manis still there in hell because
hell the bad side, has not beenemptied out.
Paradise, abraham's bosom, hasbeen emptied out, but everybody
that's ever gone to hellrejecting Christ is still there
(03:22):
and they're waiting until hellis emptied and they stand before
God for judgment.
We're going to talk about thattonight a little bit.
We also talked about Tartarus.
We talked about the angels thatsinned and they are held in a
special place I don't know ifspecial is the right word, but
it's a unique place calledTartarus and it's where they are
held waiting for judgment aswell, are held waiting for
(03:48):
judgment as well.
We left off last week or lastepisode talking about the fact
that Jesus, when he died on thecross, he was buried and his
body was placed in the grave forthree days and three nights.
But during those three days andthree nights, jesus, actually
his soul, went to hell, andPsalms talks about it that God,
the Father, will not leave hissoul in hell, won't suffer his
(04:08):
Holy One to see corruption.
Jesus actually goes to hell andleads those on the good side,
if you will, in that compartmenton the other side of the great
gulf or the great expanseseparating the torturous side,
the fire side, from the goodside.
He leads all of those peoplewho were there, takes all their
(04:31):
souls out, empties out, and Paultells us about it that he leads
captivity, captive and leadsthem out and leads them to
heaven.
So that's what we were talkingabout.
My goodness, it's quite asubject for sure, quite a
subject for sure.
So tonight, what we want to dois we want to pick up there,
noting that we have establishedthat hell is in the center of
(04:52):
the earth.
That is why there are versestalking about Satan going to and
fro in the earth.
Up and down in it there is aunderworld, if for lack of a
better term, and it is very,very, very real and there's a
lot of evidence to that.
Hell right now, hell is in thecenter of the earth.
(05:16):
You can prove that from theBible, you can prove it.
So we want to jump in.
There's another word.
We started last episode tellingyou that there are three words
in the Greek used for hell andone, excuse me, in the Hebrew
Sheol.
Obviously it's translated thepit, sometimes it's translated
(05:38):
hell, sometimes in the OldTestament, but it is Sheol.
The equivalent in the Greek isthe word Hades.
And then we looked at the wordTartarus, where the angels are
chained up in waiting for theirjudgment.
Then we are going to looktonight at the most translated
word, that's translated hell inour English language, especially
(06:02):
if you're using, like a KingJames version, and most of your
translations translate this hell.
It is the word, the Greek word,gehenna.
So there's four words in theBible, three in the Greek, one
in the Hebrew translated hell.
The last one that we want tolook at is the word Gehenna and
it's the Greek word.
Greek number in the lexicon1067.
(06:23):
And I want you to see thisbecause it is translated hell.
But it does not mean and it isnot what we surmise from
scripture.
It is not talking about theplace in the center of the earth
.
Let us explain what we meanhere.
The word Gehenna refers to aplace on the earth and it's
(06:49):
called it's in Jerusalem, okay,and it's called the Valley of
Hinnom, h-i-n-n-o-m.
The Valley of Hinnom, and ifyou were next to Jerusalem, it
is the valley that borders thecity of Jerusalem.
Okay, it's that valley, it isthe valley of Hinnom.
(07:11):
Now, if you study history inJesus's day because Jesus uses
this word and describes it, andI know there's a lot of
confusion.
Basically, what me and Mattwant you to understand is, every
time you see the word hell inyour English translation, you
need to know enough Greek to seeis it talking about Hades, is
(07:32):
it talking about Tartarus, is ittalking about Gehenna?
Because Gehenna is verydifferent than Hades and
Tartarus.
We want to be very clear aboutthat.
So you can't just see theEnglish word hell and
automatically think fire andpunishment, because it's not
always talking about the sameplace.
Matt (07:52):
Yeah, and it does denote a fire in some instances, right,
but we'll get into that once youexplain about that valley.
Brandon (08:08):
Fire doesn't always denote hell Exactly.
Some people every time you seefire or weeping or gnashing of
teeth, I've known many people.
Oh, that's talking about hell.
Matt (08:19):
They're going to hell.
That's talking about hell.
Brandon (08:21):
No, it's not.
We're going to show you tonight, Every time you see those words
fire.
We're going to show youinstances where God is talking
about saved believers who aregoing to be tested by what Fire,
Okay, and there's going to beweeping and gnashing of teeth of
believers.
We're going to see that, Okay.
So, and we're going to see thisword hell.
(08:44):
So let's talk about the Valleyof Hinnom In Jesus's day.
The Valley of Hinnom,H-I-N-N-O-M.
What was it, Matt, Tell us?
Matt (08:53):
about it.
So it's a.
It's a valley that runs rightbeside the city.
So in the ancient times you hadto.
You had a place where youdumped all your trash.
Okay, so it was the.
You didn't want it piling up inthe city, so what'd they do
with it?
They dumped it in a valleyoutside the gates of the city,
(09:17):
and which Gehenna, or the Valleyof Hinnom Right, is right
outside of Jerusalem.
Brandon (09:24):
So that's where they threw their trash.
It was, for lack of a betterterm, the dump.
Matt (09:28):
The garbage dump.
Brandon (09:29):
The garbage dump.
It was the trash can or thetrash heap of the city, and they
would burn the trash it almostcontinually burned.
It was a place of continualburning and it was burning up
their worthless stuff that theywanted to throw away.
(09:51):
Okay, so that's going to bevery important as we explain
Gehenna, or hell, translatedmany times in your Bible.
So you've got to get a tool anda resource on your phone or an
iPad or computer or old, youknow, hardcover book that you
can look up these words and know, when you're reading your Bible
(10:13):
, what it's talking about.
So Gehenna was the Valley ofHinnom that runs alongside
Jerusalem, and it was the trashheap, it was the trash dump.
They would throw their trashout there, they would burn their
trash out there and it wasalmost always on fire.
Why is that important?
(10:33):
Let's read a couple scripturesthat are translated hell in your
Bible, but it's actually it istranslated the word hell, but
it's the word Gehenna.
Let's look at this, matthew.
I'll read the first one, youtake the next one, we'll just go
back and forth.
Let's look at four or five ofthese right here and we'll take
a look and see what God istalking about here, and I want
(10:55):
you to see if you can spot thedifferences in these stories.
So, matthew, chapter 5, this isthe Sermon on the Mount.
Okay, now watch this right here.
Jesus is saying in the Sermon onthe Mount.
He is saying that if yourrighteousness has to exceed the
righteousness of the scribes andthe Pharisees, or you're not
(11:18):
even entering into the kingdomof heaven.
And then he goes on and he saysyou have heard that it was said
by them of old time thou shaltnot kill, and whosoever shall
kill shall be in danger of thejudgment.
But I say unto you thatwhosoever is angry with his
brother without a cause shall bein danger of the judgment.
Whosoever shall say to hisbrother, raka, shall be in
danger of the council, butwhosoever shall say thou fool,
(11:39):
shall be in danger of hell fire.
Okay, so that is the wordGehenna he will be in danger.
If you look at your brother andsay, thou fool, you're in danger
of Gehenna.
And what in the world does thatmean?
You're in danger of the citydump, you're in danger of the
(12:02):
trash heap, you're in danger ofthe valley where we burn our
trash in.
Okay, what If you not onlydon't obey the commandments but
have the right heart behind it?
So Jesus is getting it.
Look, you need to have theright heart towards your
brothers.
Not just do the right thing buthave the right outlook, even
(12:24):
inside your heart, or you're indanger of hell fire.
He says Okay, let's look at thenext one, chapter 5, verse 29,.
Still the Sermon on the Mount.
Matt (12:33):
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and
cast it from thee, For it isprofitable for thee that one of
thy members should perish, andnot that thy whole body should
be cast into hell.
Brandon (12:46):
So Jesus here is teaching, he's going beyond the
law.
He's saying don't look at youknow, he said don't commit
adultery, don't even look at awoman to commit adultery.
If you look at women to commitadultery, you might as well
you'd be better off to pluck outyour eyes so you can't look at
a woman to commit adultery withher in your heart, because it's
(13:08):
better that you go in.
It says that it is better,profitable for thee that one of
thy members should perish, oryour I perish, and that that
whole body, then that that wholebody should be cast into
Gehenna.
Okay, the trash heap, theburning place, the city dump, if
(13:30):
you will.
Okay.
So this is used.
These are all scripturereferences to hell.
So is it talking about hell inthe center of the earth?
Or is it talking about seewhat's Jesus saying?
He's saying hey, don't obey thecommand not to commit adultery.
Don't even think aboutcommitting adultery.
Not only don't go commitadultery with a woman, don't
(13:52):
even think about it, don't evenlook at her.
Pluck out your eye.
If that's the problem, why?
So you don't end up on thetrash heap?
That's what he's saying.
Okay, that is the translationGehenna.
Okay.
So we've got to understand.
Let's keep looking.
Chapter number 5, verse number30.
And if thy right hand offendthee, cut it off and cast it
from thee, for it is profitablefor thee that one of thy members
(14:13):
should perish, and not that thywhole body should be cast into
hell.
So same thing.
Plug out your eye so you don'tend up in Gehenna.
Okay, cut off your hand so youdon't end up in Gehenna.
Let's read on A few chaptersover.
Matt (14:27):
Okay, so Matthew 10 and 28 .
And fear not them which killthe body but are not able to
kill the soul, but rather fearhim which is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell.
Okay.
Brandon (14:42):
So he says both your soul and your body can be
destroyed in hell or in Gehennais the word used there.
Now, what we want you to see islet me show you a couple other
scriptures here.
Gehenna, okay, if we look at.
(15:06):
Let me see here.
Just see this 1 Corinthians,chapter number three, verse
number nine.
This is one of the mostimportant, often overlooked
passages in all of the Bible 1Corinthians, chapter number
three.
And this is where the Bibletalks about when you live your
(15:36):
life in a way that honors God,that you are gonna receive at
the judgment seat of Christ.
You are gonna receive rewards.
You are gonna receive authority.
You are going to receiveauthority.
You are going to get to partakein and be a part of the kingdom
of God.
You're going to be givenauthority.
This is the parable of thetalents.
(15:56):
This is the parable of theowner of the vineyard coming
back and rewarding people whomanaged his property Right.
All these stories that Jesustold.
The parable of the talents Onewas given five and two and one,
and how they handled all that.
Here is what Jesus said in 1Corinthians, chapter number
(16:18):
three.
Through the apostle Paul, hesays this we are laborers
together with God.
Ye are God's husbandry, ye areGod's building.
According to the grace of Godwhich is given unto me as a wise
master builder, I have laid thefoundation and another buildeth
thereon.
But let every man take heed howhe buildeth thereupon, for
(16:40):
other foundation can no man laythan that is laid, which is
Jesus Christ.
So Paul says look, you guys,you are essentially a building
and you have a foundation.
And the foundation of yourbuilding, of your life, is Jesus
Christ.
So if you have that foundation,you are building on the
foundation of Jesus Christ, andif you don't have the foundation
(17:01):
of Jesus Christ, you don'tbelong to God, you're not God's
building Christ.
And if you don't have thefoundation of Jesus Christ, you
don't belong to God, you're notGod's building.
And so you've got to have noother foundation can be laid
than Jesus Christ.
But then he says this, the veryfamous passage of scripture,
verse 12.
Now, if any man build upon thisfoundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay,stubble every man's work shall
be made manifest.
(17:22):
So he lists out six buildingmaterials or six building blocks
that you can build on thefoundation of Jesus.
You can build out of gold,silver or precious stone.
You can build out of wood, hayor stubble.
Now, of these six, we candivide them into three
categories Wood, hay and stubbleare very temperable flammable
materials.
(17:43):
Gold, silver and precious stoneis not very flammable, okay.
In fact, fire refines it.
Why are we talking about fire?
Because every man's work verse13, will be manifest for the day
or the day of the Lord shalldeclare it, because it shall be
revealed or tested by fire.
So, if you're a Christian,you're building on the
(18:05):
foundation of Jesus Christ andguess what?
Your house that you're buildingon that foundation is going to
be tested by fire.
Does it mean you're going to goto hell?
No, because fire is not alwayssynonymous with hell.
We're talking about hell,gehenna, here.
But what I want you tounderstand is that you are going
to be tested by fire, and theBible says it will be revealed
(18:29):
by fire.
And the fire shall try everyman's work, of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide, orabide on the foundation right,
which is Jesus, which he hasbuilt thereupon, he shall
receive a reward.
If any man's work shall beburned, he shall suffer loss.
Okay, so you're going to bebuilding on the foundation.
(18:51):
God's going to test what youbuild gold, silver, precious
stones, wood, hay or stubble.
If it's consumed and burned up,you suffer loss, the Bible says
.
But if it stands the test offire, you receive a reward.
Now look at the end of the verse.
But he himself.
If any man's work shall beburned, he shall suffer loss,
(19:11):
but he himself shall be saved,yet so as by fire.
So what Paul is teaching us isevery one of us, as Christians
are going to be, have our workstested by fire, not in order to
go to heaven, not our sin, butour works that we have built on
the foundation of Jesus Christ.
And do my works get burnt up ordo they stand the test of fire?
(19:36):
If they stand the test, Ireceive a reward.
If they don't stand the test, Idon't receive a reward.
What are we saying here?
Matt (19:47):
I like that analogy because the key piece of it
you're building, but thefoundation, the rock that you're
building on, doesn't goanywhere.
Fire doesn't affect the rock.
Brandon (20:06):
That's right, it's absolutely right.
You cannot destroy thatfoundation that you have.
You can't.
So what we're getting at hereis that everyone is going to
stand the test of fire.
Everyone is going to stand thetest of fire, and you remember
that passage of scripture wherePaul said that?
(20:27):
He said I run so that I canobtain, so that my life and I'm
paraphrasing is not shipwrecked.
I run to obtain a reward.
And then, at the end of hislife, I have fought a good fight
, I've finished the court, runmy race.
I'm paraphrasing, but he'stalking about running, and
(20:48):
sometimes you get this urgencyin Paul that he did not want to
be and people misconstrue whathe's saying.
I don't want my life to beshipwrecked.
He's not talking about losinghis salvation.
He is talking about listen tome, and this is where it
connects.
He is talking about having hislife be worthless and thrown on
(21:08):
the trash heap called Gehenna.
Okay, now let me give you astory that drives this home, and
maybe let's go to one of themost misunderstood two chapters
in all the Bible Matthew,chapter 24 and verse 25.
Um, there was a this is theOlivet discourse and there was a
(21:34):
guy.
This is the parable of thetalents.
Jesus says and I'm going tojust surmise it for you that the
kingdom of heaven is is a mantraveling into a far country and
he has these three servants.
To the first servant, he givesfive talents to invest and to
build his business.
To the next, he gives twotalents.
(21:55):
To the next, he gives one.
Well, if you know the story,the one with five talents put
his master's money to work andhe made five more talents.
And his Lord said unto himverse 21, well done thou, good
and faithful servant.
Thou hast been faithful over afew things.
I will make thee ruler, keyword over many things.
(22:16):
Enter thou into the joy of thyLord.
He also, that had received twotalents, came and said Lord,
thou deliverest unto me twotalents.
Behold, I have gained two othertalents.
So the guy that had five nowhas 10.
The guy that has two now hasfour.
They've been pretty faithful.
And his Lord said unto him welldone, good and faithful servant
(22:37):
, thou hast been faithful over afew things.
I will make the ruler over manythings.
Enter thou into the joy of thyLord.
Then he which had received theone talent, came and said Lord,
I knew thee that thou art anhard man, reaping where thou
hast not sown and gatheringwhere thou hast not strawed.
And I was afraid and went andhid thy talent in the earth.
(22:59):
Lo, there thou hast, that isthine.
So he took his one talent andhe went and hid it in the ground
and he brings it back to hisLord and he says I still got my
talent or your talent.
Here you go, and he gives itback, and his Lord answered and
said unto him thou wicked,wicked and slothful or lazy
servant, thou knewest that Ireap where I sowed not, and
(23:22):
gather where I have not strawed.
Thou oughtest therefore to haveput my money to the exchangers
and then, at my coming, I shouldhave received mine own with
usury.
You should have put my money inthe bank and at least got a
little bit of interest off of it.
But watch what he says here.
Take, therefore, the talentfrom him and give it unto him,
which hath ten talents.
So he takes his talent from theone that did nothing with his
(23:45):
talent, he loses everything hehad.
Okay, and his talent's takenand given to the guy that had
ten that did the most with it.
Okay, for unto watch this,because this bugs a lot of
people, but this is what we'retrying to drive home to you, for
unto you, for unto everyone,that hath shall be given.
(24:06):
So if you have, you'll be givenmore and he shall have
abundance.
But from him that hath notshall be taken away.
Even that which he hath.
Watch this shall be taken away,even that which he hath.
Watch this.
And cast ye, the unprofitableservant, into outer darkness.
There shall be weeping andgnashing of teeth.
(24:28):
Okay, so here this servant,what he had, is taken away
because it didn't even belong tohim.
The talent is taken and givento the guy that has 10.
And then what happens?
That servant, who'sunprofitable, is cast into outer
darkness.
Now, most people that read this,they automatically assume this
(24:50):
is talking about hell Cast intoouter darkness.
There should be weeping andgnashing of teeth.
This is not talking about hell.
This is not talking about theplace in the center of the earth
where punishment and torment ismeted out.
What is this?
This is Jesus describing hiskingdom.
If you notice, it says thekingdom of heaven is, as so,
(25:11):
god's kingdom.
Jesus's kingdom is described asbeing you're either a
profitable servant or you're anunprofitable servant.
And if you're unprofitable,what are you going to do?
You are going to be in outerdarkness.
Now, what I'm telling you maybe foreign to your ears, but
devout studiers of the Biblethat study the Greek will tell
(25:33):
you okay, go look up ChuckMissler, go look up his teaching
on outer darkness.
Okay, brilliant man who's inheaven now.
And he says that how we shouldtranslate outer darkness is
darkness that is farther awayfrom the light, or the darkness
farther away.
Serious theologians in the Greekway, smarter than I am, come to
(25:57):
this understanding that whenthe word outer darkness is used
three times all in Matthew, itis not referring to hell.
It is referring to unprofitableservants not being given the
same rewards and inheritance asthose who are profitable.
(26:18):
In other words, their eternityand their life ends up on the
trash heap the Gehenna, the hellof this earth and the afterlife
.
So what are we saying?
Let me just sum this up.
And then Matt wants to chime in.
And then Matt wants to chime in.
(26:38):
Gehenna is used as anillustration by Jesus to explain
the negative consequences thatsin can have in the life of a
believer, in this life and inthe afterlife.
It is used to reference and bean example of a place of
exclusion from the blessing andthere's weeping and gnashing of
(27:01):
teeth because of the regret ofnot having built a better house
on the foundation of Christ.
Yeah, okay.
Matt (27:13):
And it all lines up together, even the judgment,
where it's whether your worksare good or not, whether they're
going to be burned up or not.
And the talents Honestly, Ilike the word talents, even
though I know it means money Inour world and society.
(27:37):
Talents, a person's talent,something that they're good at,
something that they can do.
Are they using it for thekingdom?
That's right and are theygiving it back to God to use for
the kingdom?
Brandon (27:50):
The Greek word that Paul uses are you doing with
your life?
In the English we don't reallyget it translated from the Greek
it says are you doing good orbad?
But if you look up good and badthe words that Paul uses, are
you doing worthwhile things orworthless things?
Okay, are you and I think Jesussums it up in the parable of
(28:12):
the talents the unprofitableservant.
So, are you profitable to thekingdom of God or are you
unprofitable?
If you're profitable, you'regoing to have, when your works
are tested, you are going toreceive a greater reward, okay,
and be included in someblessings that some others are
not.
My old preacher used to saysome of you are going to get to
(28:34):
the kingdom of God to themillennium where Jesus sets up
his kingdom, and you're going tolive to the kingdom of God to
the millennium where Jesus setsup his kingdom, and you're going
to live in the ghetto.
I think Gehenna drives home thepoint that it is the trash heap
outside of the city where Jesusputs his name.
Matt (28:49):
That was just it.
That was part of the ghetto ofthe city.
That's where the lowest of thelow, the outcasts, the beggars,
the lepers, were forced intothose areas and literally saying
okay, you're going to be in theValley of Hinnom.
(29:10):
If you're not profitable, ifyou're not using your talents
and gifts that God gave you forhis kingdom, your life is going
to end up in that valley.
Brandon (29:27):
And also there's a context we're talking about at
the end of our life in thekingdom of God, but there's also
a context now.
Now, if I am unprofitable forthe Lord, I can turn my life
right now as a believer into aliving hell, a trash heap, and I
can waste and make a mess of mylife compared to hell With just
(29:50):
a few decisions.
That's right.
It just turned like that.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so I hope I know this isa little bit different, maybe,
than what some of you have everheard.
Every time the word hell istranslated in your Bible does
not necessarily mean the sameplace.
There is a place in the centerof the earth, sheol, hades.
It is a place of punishment.
(30:11):
It used to be a holding placecalled paradise and Abraham's
bosom that has been emptied out.
Called paradise and Abraham'sbosom that has been emptied out.
But there's also a place calledGehenna.
Okay, that is the context isapplied when Jesus uses it.
Okay, to the life of anunprofitable servant that you
(30:31):
can turn your life into.
You can miss out on, beexcluded from the blessings and
miss out due to negativeconsequences of sin in your life
and in the afterlife.
Your life can be basically hellthe trash heap, if you will.
So that's the context, matt.
Anything else to add therebefore we move on to the last
(30:53):
few couple terms that we want touse in this discussion on hell
and the lake of fire?
Matt (31:00):
I don't believe, so Got it all out.
One thing we need to discussone time is the difference in
children and servants.
How they're the same Right sowe're all children of God when
you're saved and how you're alsoa servant or a bond slave.
Brandon (31:21):
Right.
Matt (31:23):
Those different things.
I think, that's veryinteresting how the son and the
prodigal son comes back.
He wants to be the servant, sowe have to have the attitude of
the servant, even though we area servant, right.
Brandon (31:36):
And that dovetails into what is an heir.
The Bible says that we areheirs of God and joint heirs
with Christ, but then it says ifwe suffer with him, we'll reign
with him, and things like that.
So there is an inheritance thatcomes from being a son and a
daughter, but there's also aninheritance and blessing that
comes with being faithful.
So we can look at all thosedifferent things and absolutely
(31:59):
we want to move on to the end ofthis discussion, not the end of
it.
But we have been talking aboutwhat's the difference in hell
and the lake of fire and youknow, for the last couple
episodes up until this point, wehaven't talked about the lake
of fire one time We've talkedabout hell in the center of the
earth, sheol and Hades.
We've talked about Gehennabeing applied predominantly to
(32:21):
believers, but we've also wewant to move into so what's the
difference, brandon, in hell andthe lake of fire?
Well, there's a huge difference, absolutely huge difference.
Okay, in fact, if we go to thebook of Revelation, we see that
there's about five times thatthe word lake of fire is used,
(32:44):
and they're all used in the bookof Revelation.
And we want to look at that andI think, as we look at these
five verses, it'll begin to makesense to you.
Remember hell in context of thecenter of the earth, the place
of punishment.
Hell in context of the centerof the earth, the place of
punishment, the place of firewhere unbelievers go, who reject
Christ, even up until this day.
If you died today withoutChrist, you go to hell.
(33:06):
But what we're about to showyou is that hell is not a
permanent place.
It will be emptied out and youwill be judged and thrown into a
different place called the lakeof fire.
Revelation chapter.
Matt (33:17):
Excuse me, excuse me, number 19, verse 20 okay, and
the beast was taken, and withhim the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him withwhich he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beastand them that worshiped his
image.
These both were cast alive intothe lake of fire, burning with
(33:38):
brimstone.
Brandon (33:39):
All right.
So here we have the beast andthe false prophet from the
seven-year tribulation.
We have them, and what happensAt the end of the tribulation?
The Bible says that the beastwas taken and the false prophet
and thrown alive into the lakeof fire burning with brimstone.
(34:01):
So this is the first time thatwe see the lake of fire
mentioned and it is to bedifferentiated from hell because
it's not the same place.
All right, so we'll look at thenext one.
If you flip one page over tochapter 20, verse number 10, the
lake of fire is mentioned againand it says this and the devil
that deceived them was cast intothe lake of fire and brimstone,
(34:24):
where the beast and falseprophet are and shall be
tormented day and night, foreverand ever.
So in the span of Revelation,the span of one chapter, we're
at the end of the tribulationthat the beast and the false
prophet are thrown into the lakeof fire.
We know that Satan is chainedup at that point for a little
while, for a thousand years, andat the end of the thousand
(34:46):
years we talked about this acouple episodes ago at the end
of the thousand years he leadsone more revolt and rebellion,
and at the end of the millennium, so a thousand years after the
beast and false prophet arethrown into the lake of fire.
Verse number 10 of chapter 20tells us that Satan himself is
thrown into the lake of firethat burns with brimstone, and
(35:09):
it says that he, where the beastand false prophet are, and they
or it doesn't say, they, itsays and shall be tormented day
and night, forever and ever.
So here we see the lake of fire.
We know of three residentsthere at the end of Revelation
the beast, the false prophet,and at the end of the literal,
thousand-year, millennial reignof Christ, we see Satan thrown
(35:29):
in there.
Okay, and it is a place oftorment, day and night, forever
and ever.
So it is a couple of things.
It is similar to hell in thatthere's torment.
Remember the rich man he liftedup his eyes being in hell,
being in torment.
Okay, I'm tormented in thisflame, he said Okay, so it's a
place of torment, but here, allright, we see something that's
(35:54):
different than hell, than thelake of fire.
They are tormented day andnight, forever and ever.
So there is.
The Bible states that it iseternal torment.
Okay, and I'll read verse 14,and then, matt, you read verse
number.
Actually, I'll read these twoand you would go to 21, because
(36:14):
they're back to back.
Verse 14 in chapter 20, itmentions it again in death and
hell were cast into the lake offire.
Let's just read this for asecond.
At the end of verse 10, satanis thrown into the lake of fire.
And then the Bible says and Isaw a great white throne and him
that sat on it, from whose facethe earth and the heaven fled
(36:36):
away.
There was found no place forthem.
We talked about the great whitethrone judgment a couple
episodes ago.
This is where everybody who isrejected Christ gets a fair
trial.
But watch what it says.
It says in verse 14, and deathand hell were cast into the lake
of fire.
If you read the whole accountof the great white throne
judgment, death and hell, theBible says that the dead, small
(36:59):
and great, stand before God,before this great white throne.
So after Satan is thrown intothe lake of fire, hell, the
place we talked about lastepisode in detail, is emptied
out.
Everybody who's there, remember.
Hell is a place of the dead, ofthe damned.
It is not eternal life whereheaven is, it is eternal
damnation.
Okay, so hell is emptied out.
(37:28):
So that's what is meant by whenit says the dead stand before
God.
Hell is emptied out.
Verse 14 kind of sheds somelight on it.
And death and hell were castinto the lake of fire.
So hell is a place that isemptied out, it is a place of
death.
Everyone who is dead and hasbeen in hell stands before the
great white throne judgment andis judged, and then they are
cast into the lake of fire.
(37:50):
So here I want you to don'tmiss this Hell is a temporary
place.
Hell is emptied out.
Those people stand before Godand then those people are cast
into the lake of fire.
And then verse 15 says andwhosoever was not found written
in the book of life was castinto the lake of fire.
So the lake of fire is a placeof torment.
(38:10):
It's an eternal place.
Hell is not an eternal place.
Okay, place, okay.
Now remember, as we go into the,from this point on, what
happens chapter number 21,.
The old heaven and the oldearth are done away with and
there's a new heaven and a newearth.
Where was hell at this point?
(38:31):
Hell at this point, and we'realive today, in 2024, and at
this point hell has always beenin the center of the earth, but
now hell is emptied out, thosepeople are cast into the lake of
fire and the actual earth isdone away with, new heaven, new
earth created.
Lake of fire is not on thisearth, it is somewhere else.
(38:52):
Okay, so these are all bigthoughts and crazy ideas, but
this is what the Bible says.
So anybody that was not foundtheir name written in the book
of life was cast into the lakeof fire.
That's a crazy thought.
Crazy thought.
So you got chapter 21.
Matt (39:12):
21 and 8.
But the fearful and unbelievingand the abominable and the
murderers and the whoremongersand the sorcerers and the
idolaters and all liars shallhave their part in the lake
which burneth with fire andbrimstone, which is the second
death.
Brandon (39:30):
Yeah, it is the second death.
Think about that for a second.
It is the second death.
Verse number 14 of chapter 20refers to that as well.
So does chapter 21,.
Verse number 8.
And so it twice refers to thelake of fires.
(39:54):
The second death, because whenyou receive Christ, you gain
eternal life.
I, for God, so loved the worldthat he gave his only begotten
son that whosoever believeth inhim should not perish but have
everlasting life.
When you believe in Jesus, youhave a life eternal.
When you reject Christ and youdie and go to hell currently,
(40:17):
and then one day, hell isemptied out and you stand before
God and you're judged for yoursin.
You rejected Christ.
Your name's not written in thebook of life, so you're thrown
into the lake of fire.
That is known verse 14 ofchapter 20 and verse eight of
chapter 21, as the second death.
Why is that?
Because Romans 6.23 says forthe wages of sin is death.
(40:42):
So what is the lake of fire?
The lake of fire is continualdeath, torment, eternal death,
forever.
Okay.
Matt (40:54):
Yeah, and I wonder if second death is referring to.
First your soul ended up inhell, right, the first death of
your soul, and then this is thesecond death of your soul, right
or is?
It referencing the death ofyour body, the physical death.
And then this is the seconddeath.
This is the death of your body,the physical death and then the
second death is the death ofyour soul, right?
Brandon (41:14):
yeah, I would probably lean toward the death of the
body and the death, thepermanent death, the eternal
death.
So this is fascinating.
And some more scriptures todrive this home, and we'll wind
down this conversation.
Matthew chapter 25 has a fewscriptures here and we'll look
at them.
This is the sermon that Jesusgave.
(41:37):
This is what they call theOlivet Discourse, matthew
chapter 24 and 25.
And then I want you to readthese stories.
We looked at the parable of thetalents and we found out that it
meant something a little bitdifferent than most of us have
been taught.
But look at the end of theOlivet Discourse, matthew
chapter 25.
This is the sheep and the goatjudgment, if you will.
(41:59):
And Matthew chapter 25, and youget down to verse number 41,.
It says this, by the way, and Iwant to hone in on this,
because a lot of us have beentaught that hell remember we're
talking about hell and the lakeof fire and the difference We've
been taught that well, one day,if you reject Christ, you die
(42:21):
and go to hell forever.
We have learned over the lastcouple hours of Bible talk you
don't go to hell forever.
You go to hell now.
But hell will be emptied outand you'll stand before God and
be judged at the great whitethrone.
If you reject Christ and yourname's not found written in the
book of life, then you are castinto the lake of fire.
So you don't go to hell forever, you go to hell temporarily if
(42:42):
you reject Christ and yourname's not written in the book
of life, and you go to the lakeof fire forever.
But we've also been taught thathell was made for the devil and
his angels.
I've heard that all my life.
That's not true.
It's not true.
Verse 41 of Matthew, chapter 5,says this.
Then shall he say also untothem on the left hand Depart
(43:04):
from me.
Ye cursed into, watch thiseverlasting fire prepared for
the devil and his angels.
Okay, remember, this is talkingabout the lake of fire.
Everlasting, never-ending fireis not talking about hell,
because hell is in the center ofthe earth.
That will be done away with andemptied out.
(43:24):
The place created for the deviland his angels is the lake of
fire.
Okay, so hell?
So what was hell originallycreated for in the center of the
earth?
That's another question.
That rabbit hole you could godown there.
Uh, before sin entered into theearth.
Uh, so yeah, or pre-creation.
(43:48):
Okay, we'll tease this if youbuy into a gap theory of some
kind, was there life thatpermeated inside and outside of
the earth?
We won't chase that rabbittonight.
Matt (44:09):
Yeah, I don't know if we could ever know that we won't
chase that rabbit tonight.
Brandon (44:12):
that rabbit tonight, yeah, I don't know if we could
ever know that we won't chasethat rabbit tonight.
But so Matthew 25, verse 41says that the lake of fire was
created for devil and his angels, not hell, the lake of fire,
and it refers to it as a placeof everlasting fire.
And I want to leave you ontonight as we wind down.
We want to leave you with twowords that we have not yet
discussed, that do reference theafterlife, the hell and the
(44:35):
lake of fire conversation.
And that comes from Matthew 25as well, and it is the parable
of the sheep and goat judgments.
And this is at the end of thetribulation.
This is when God's kingdom,jesus, is setting up his kingdom
, and he divides the sheep andthe goats, okay, and the sheep
(44:57):
are on his right hand and thegoats are on his left.
And basically he tells themthat you know they can, the
sheep, that they can go into thekingdom prepared for them from
the foundation of the world, thekingdom prepared for them from
the foundation of the world.
And he tells the sheep he saidwhen I was hungry, you gave me
eat.
When I was thirsty, you gave medrink.
(45:18):
And he goes through this longlitany.
He said well, when did we dothis for you?
And he said if you have done itto the least of these, my
brethren, you have done it untome, my brethren, you have done
it unto me.
Okay, so this is a reference tothe tribulation and those how
they.
It's basically how they treatthe Jewish people during the
(45:39):
tribulation.
It is divided.
The believers and those thathad accepted Christ treated
Israel good Jesus' brethren.
Those that treated him, treatedthe brethren of Jesus, the
Jewish people, negatively arethe goats.
So the sheep are on the righthand, the goats are on the left.
And notice what it says here Inverse number.
(46:03):
Let me find it here.
Is it 31?
That tells the whole story.
But where does it say abouteternal?
I've got verse 46, but it alsosays 41, the left hand, yep, so
those on the left hand.
It says.
Jesus says to them depart fromme.
You cursed into everlastingfire, prepared for the devil and
(46:26):
his angels.
So it is everlasting fire.
So the lake of fire iseverlasting fire.
That is a term attributed tothe lake of fire.
And in verse number 46, it saysand these shall go away into
everlasting punishment, but therighteous unto life eternal.
So the kingdom of God or thosewho rejected Christ are
(46:55):
everlasting punishment,everlasting fire, and that is
equivalent to the lake of fire.
Matt (47:00):
Yeah, that's a pretty wild way to tie this into the Great
White Throne judgment.
Right, because the punishmentthat he's meeting out is
literally the lake of fire.
Right, the permanent lake offire.
Right, the permanent right lakeof fire.
So it's the same right scene,right, one taught from jesus on
(47:22):
earth, the other taught by john,that he sees in heaven right,
absolutely well.
Brandon (47:28):
And if this scene in chapter 25, verse 31 through 46,
is at the end of thetribulation, okay, notice what
he says.
He sentences them, the goats,to everlasting punishment,
everlasting fire.
So they are sent, the beast andthe false prophet are sentenced
(47:52):
to the lake of fire.
The goats are sentenced to theeverlasting, like you know it
doesn't say lake of fire but itsays everlasting punishment and
everlasting fire.
So they're not going to hell atthe end of the tribulation,
they're going straight to thelake of fire, even though those
in hell don't stand before thegreat white throne for another
thousand years.
(48:13):
So that's an interesting ifthis is at the end of the
tribulation, if the timing of itis that which most people think
, that it is the OlivetDiscourse.
So, my goodness, we have reallydug into over the last little
while, a deep dive into hell.
Matt (48:35):
Yeah, we don't want to dive in there too deep.
Brandon (48:38):
We don't want to go there.
Matt (48:39):
I don't want to experience it, but for lack of a better
term, it's been you guys don'twant to go there or experience
it either.
Brandon (48:47):
Yeah, lack of a better term.
It's been a heck of a subject,though right it has.
I mean, yeah, it's crazy andit's not to be laughed at.
It's very serious.
But the Bible is clear thatthere's a hell.
It is Sheol called Hades.
It's in the center of the earth.
There's also a term used, hellin most of our English
translations, called Gehenna,and that is reference to
(49:10):
believers who can have theirlife and their afterlife end up
on the trash heap and sufferloss even though themselves will
be saved.
And then we talked about thelake of fire.
The permanent, eternal fire andeternal punishment of those who
are not found in their namesare not found in the book of
life, and it is an eternal placeof torment.
Matt (49:35):
Yeah, and probably one of the biggest things to take away
from, honestly, the last severalepisodes is that everyone's
heaven is not going to be thesame Right.
Right that flies in the face ofso many closely tightly held
beliefs that, oh, you know, theydied and they go to heaven.
(49:58):
They're rejoicing.
Brandon (50:00):
Riding around on a cloud, riding around on the
clouds with a harp and all thatstuff.
Matt (50:06):
And it goes in the face of all that.
But that's what the Bibleteaches Right that everyone's
going to be different, even whenwe get to heaven.
It is not like the utopianeverybody gets the same income
level like people think of hereon earth.
Brandon (50:22):
Let me say my thoughts on this.
And I believe that you and I,who are saved, now we need to do
worthwhile things instead ofworthless.
We need to be profitable andnot unprofitable to our Lord.
If we are profitable, god isjust and he will reward us.
Now, now get this in hiskingdom, his 1000 year kingdom.
(50:43):
We will be rewarded.
We will rule and reign with him.
If we are unprofitable in thislife, Now, I think we we are
held back and excluded fromcertain blessings.
Okay, we end up on the valleyof Hinnom, if you will.
We suffer loss and we enterinto the thousand-year reign,
(51:05):
having to relearn for 1,000years how to be in the image of
Christ, our Savior, while we'rebeing ruled over by Christ, our
King, along with our profitablebrothers and sisters ruling over
us as well.
And I believe that's why it isweeping and gnashing of teeth
because of regret for what Icould have had.
(51:27):
But when we reach the end ofthe millennium, my belief is
that we enter eternity andeverybody has learned at that
point.
But I believe the kingdom, the1,000 years, is a retraining
ground for those of us whodidn't learn in this life.
That's what I think.
So, okay, am I right, I don'tknow on that.
Matt (51:48):
We'll have to debate that sometime.
Brandon (51:50):
That's what I suspect.
All right, hey guys, we'regoing to leave it there tonight.
This is the Bible Says podcast.
It's been great, as always.
It's phenomenal.
Matt, thank you for being suchan awesome co-host here, and it
is good.
Hey, dig in this, get in yourBible.
If you got questions orsomething doesn't make sense,
chime in.
Yeah, definitely share thebroadcast.
(52:11):
And yeah, if you just thinkwe're just out there in the
weeds you want to debate, bringit on, we'll talk about it.
Hey, we can be wrong, I promiseyou that.
But we try to be faithful tothe Word of God.
We don't try to read into thescriptures, we try to be
faithful.
So pray for us.
We'll pray for you and by allmeans, if you don't know the
Lord as your Savior, don't riskhell and don't risk the lake of
(52:33):
fire eternally.
Turn to Jesus.
He loved you, he died for you.
No-transcript.
(52:55):
Jesus saves, jesus loves you.
Y'all have a great night andwe'll see you next time.
I think next time is episode 13, if I'm not mistaken, of the
Bible Says Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
Have a great night.
God bless you.
The Bible says the Bible sayspodcast.
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