May 8, 2024 • 60 mins
We hope you will tune in as Brandon and Matt navigate the complexities of Christian doctrine with wisdom, compassion, and a touch of Southern charm. This week we are digging deeper into the mysteries of salvation and your spiritual identity. We've got some great conversations around one of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith that will leave you with a greater understanding of what it truly means to be saved. This episode peels back the layers of justification, sanctification, and glorification—a triathlon of grace with a past, present, and a future victory. We also look into the complex makeup of body, soul, and spirit, so get set to explore how each aspect intertwines with the transformative power of belief.
Dive deep into the cornerstone of Christian belief—being 'born again'. It's time to clarify this often-misunderstood concept and dispel the myths surrounding it. Hear why the 'water' Jesus referred to might not be about baptism but something more elemental. In a candid discussion, we confront the misconceptions about instant perfection post-salvation, and walk alongside the Apostle Paul as he shares his honest struggles, showing that even giants of faith know what it's like to battle sin.
Join us as we cultivate the seedlings of faith, reminding new believers and the seasoned alike that spiritual growth is a journey, not a sprint. Learn how the renewing of the mind is as crucial to your spiritual health as water is to a plant. We also wade into the waters of baptism, clarifying its symbolic importance and the spiritual rebirth it represents.
We hope you enjoy this episode and pray it nurtures your understanding of salvation's transformative process. We would love to hear your thoughts, questions, comments, and we appreciate all of the follows, likes and reviews.
May you have a blessed day.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon (00:09):
What does the Bible say ?
The Bible says the Bible sayspodcast.
All right, Matt, welcome to theBible Says Podcast.
This is episode two.
How's it going, buddy?
Awesome, Good to see you.
Awesome, yeah, Good to see you.
(00:30):
We had a good time on themaiden voyage.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
Matt (00:34):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun doing it.
Brandon (00:37):
It is.
I think this is going to be ablast and I think we are going
to talk about a lot of topics.
I've got a lot in my repertoireof what I want to talk about.
I'm a prophecy nerd so I can'twait till we get into some
prophecy, and I love thedifficult passages of the Bible
(00:57):
too the biblical prehistorystuff, the antediluvian stuff,
the Nephilim stuff.
That stuff's going to be prettyinteresting tied in with
Revelation.
Matt (01:06):
Yeah, that stuff's always cool, it's always interesting to
look at.
You can go off the deep end onit.
Yeah, maybe we will, and weprobably will, we probably will.
But you know it's the BibleSays podcast.
Brandon (01:24):
So we want to see what the Bible says about all those
things, and the Bible says a lotabout those things.
Matt (01:26):
It does, it turns out.
Brandon (01:27):
A lot about giants, a lot about those things.
So we're not there yet.
We're talking about otherthings, but prophecy, those kind
of things are going to pop upand we're excited about it.
This is the Bible Says podcast,where we take a good long hard
look at doctrines that youbelieve, I believe, and we see
what the truth is from abiblical lens and making sure
(01:49):
what we believe lines up withthe Bible, because ultimately,
what we want to believe is whatthe Bible says what the Bible
says, that's right, that's right.
Last time we were together, webegan at the paramount issue of
our day.
We began at the paramount issueof our day, which is
soteriology, salvation and whatit is, what it's not.
(02:11):
We defined the gospel as thedeath, burial and resurrection
of Jesus Christ.
We defined our hermeneuticalstance as believing that every
word of Scripture has beenbreathed out by God and
preserved for us, and we have afaithful representation of what
God wants us to have and we canbelieve every word and believe
(02:33):
it.
We're literally believing theBible, word for word, and we
also.
We started to wade into thewater of what happens at
salvation and we talked about aproblem that is out there when
it comes to salvation teachingwhether it's on a podcast like
this or behind a pulpit, aplatform, a revival, you know
(02:58):
whatever of attaching theprocess that the Bible clearly
defines as sanctification to theinstantaneous moment of
justification.
Matt (03:09):
Justification yeah, yeah.
Brandon (03:12):
So we were talking about that.
We were talking aboutjustification is the past tense
of salvation.
There's three tenses I havebeen saved, justified, but I am
being saved, which issanctification.
Saved, justified, but I ambeing saved, which is
sanctification, and that's theprocess of getting more clean
and becoming more like Christ,getting rid of sin and weights
that hold us back, but then,ultimately, I'm going to be
(03:32):
glorified glorification.
So past tense, present tense,future tense salvation.
Matt (03:40):
It plays into Paul's analogy of a race so much it's
like you got the start of therace, then you're running the
race Right, and then you've gotthe crown at the end of the race
Right.
Brandon (03:51):
Yeah, it is, it's a process and we want to kind of
pick up there, I guess tonight.
I want to go a little bitfurther, a little bit deeper
with that conversation.
Where we left off last week waswe were talking about that.
Just as God is three in one,one in three God the Father, god
(04:12):
the Son, god the Holy Spirit,we are three in one and one in
three as well.
The Bible talks about everyperson having a body, a soul and
a spirit.
And if we don't clearlyunderstand what he's talking
about and what the body, souland spirit are representing and
(04:32):
talking about and referencing,then we get mixed up on what
happened at salvation.
So I want to show you, I guess,a verse just right out of the
gate Genesis, chapter number two, verse number seven.
This is the creation accountwhere God is forming man.
And I want you to see verseseven of chapter two, and this
(04:55):
is in your Bible.
I'm reading from the King Jamesversion, but you'll see it no
matter which version that yousee.
It says and the Lord God formedman of the dust of the ground.
Okay, so the Lord God formedman of the dust of the ground.
He formed his.
What Formed his body.
Okay, so he formed his bodyfrom dust.
(05:17):
But notice this it says andbreathed into his nostrils the
breath of life.
So God breathed.
Okay, that is the spirit of God, the ruach, the ruach.
Okay, yes, god breathed intothis body that he made from dust
(05:40):
.
So we have the body, we havethe breath of God, the spirit of
God.
And then it says at the end ofthe verse and man became a
living soul.
Okay, so even all the way backat the beginning of scripture,
we have verses that point outthe body, the soul and the
spirit of God.
(06:02):
Not only those, but I'll showyou one from the New Testament
as well 2 Corinthians, I'm sorry, philippians, chapter number
two.
Philippians, chapter two.
I've got it marked herePhilippians, chapter two, verse
13.
It says this for it is Godwhich worketh in you both to
(06:27):
will and to do of his goodpleasure.
I always like this one becauseit says God is working in me.
Okay, as a believer in Christ,I know that the moment I trust
Christ, I become a recipient ofthe Holy Spirit, which is the
presence of God in my life.
He's my seal, he's thecomforter.
(06:49):
This is common knowledge for abeliever.
Right, we receive the HolySpirit, we're indwelt by him.
So God is in us, okay.
So the verse 13 of Philippians,chapter two, says for it is God
which worketh in us, in you, butwatch what he's doing.
It says both to will and to doof his good pleasure.
(07:12):
So both to will and do.
So God is working in me.
What's he trying to do?
He's trying to get me to willthe right things or think the
right things, want the rightthings.
But then he doesn't want me tojust have the right wants and
desires and think the rightthings, want the right things,
but then he doesn't want me tojust have the right wants and
desires and think the rightthings, he wants me to do those
things.
So what's he doing?
(07:32):
He's working in me to will andto do of his good pleasure.
So here in this verse we haveGod in me, right, the spirit.
And then we have he's trying toaffect my thoughts and get me
to think right, to will, right,that is my mind.
And then he wants me to think,not only think it, but do it
(07:56):
with my body.
So we have the spirit, soul andbody.
Now this, I think, is theconfusing part for folks.
They don't understandcompletely what the difference
is is the soul and the spirit?
Okay, your soul, the bestdefinition that I can give to
you your soul is it's you, it'syour mind and your emotions and
(08:19):
your will.
Okay, it's the verse that welooked at last week in Romans,
chapter 12, verse two.
It says and be not conformed tothis world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind.
Okay, so God wants to changeour mind.
What, what is that?
That is, that is me, how Ithink, what I, what I like, what
(08:41):
I dislike, my mind, my emotions, my will.
That is Brandon Matheson, thatis Matt Hunter.
Okay, so, your soul?
So, put that in context of whatwe talked about last week.
You know the justificationsanctification, glorification.
All right, the process.
(09:02):
Okay, I am a body, soul andspirit.
Okay, my spirit is that part ofme that communicates with God.
Okay, that was made alive byGod.
He formed man of the dust ofthe earth, the body.
He breathed into them thebreath of life.
Okay, what happens when Ibecome a believer, when I trust
(09:23):
Christ, when I'm saved, bornagain, all those synonyms that
we use?
God rebirths me.
I'm regenerated by his spirit.
Okay, so he's in me.
But what's he trying to do?
He's trying to get me to thinklike him, and he's trying to get
me to not only think like him,but use my body to do the things
he wants me to do.
(09:44):
So there is the spirit, thesoul and the body.
So your soul is your mind, yourthoughts, your emotions, your
will.
Your spirit is whatcommunicates with God and
obviously we know what your bodyis right.
It's this housing that we have,this excuse me shell that we
have.
Matt (10:03):
A thought.
Okay, it just kind of hit meYou've got the spirit, the soul
and the body, mm-hmm.
So you've got justification,sanctification and glorification
, mm-hmm.
Okay, justification your spiritwas reborn Right During
sanctification.
What?
Brandon (10:24):
is it?
Matt (10:24):
He's renewing your mind, your soul, your soul During
glorification.
You're getting a new body.
Brandon (10:32):
Right, so it is spirit, soul and body, past, present,
future, justified, sanctified,glorified.
Isn't that kind of crazy how itall fits together like that.
Matt (10:44):
Yeah, that's it, is that just kind of crazy how it all
fits together like that.
Yeah, that's it, is that justkind of hit me, that was pretty
wild.
Brandon (10:50):
That's pretty wild, it is crazy.
But doesn't that add clarity tothe fact that you know what?
I was born again in the spirit,the moment I was justified,
okay.
And now God is working on mymind, trying to get the right
thoughts to come out, my bodyright, and so he's working on me
, but ultimately he's going toredeem this body glorification.
(11:11):
So it's just really, reallycool, and that's where we want
to take the conversation next.
Because if you were to askanybody in all of the Bible how
do you become a member of thefamily of God, how do you become
justified in the eyes of God?
Your sins are forgiven and youhave eternal life?
If you're gonna ask anybodythat question, you're gonna ask
Jesus, right?
(11:31):
Yeah, well, that's what one guydid in John chapter three.
Let's look at it.
John chapter three, there's aguy named Nicodemus that came to
Jesus and it says in versenumber one Matt, you got it,
yeah.
I've got it Go ahead and readverse one through about seven.
Matt (11:50):
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a
ruler of the Jews.
The same came to Jesus by nightand said unto him Rabbi, we
know that thou art a teacher.
Come from God, for no man cando these miracles that thou
doest, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said untohim Verily, verily, I say unto
(12:11):
thee.
Except a man be born again, hecannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said unto him how cana man be born again when he is
old?
Can he enter the second timeinto the mother's womb and be
born?
And Jesus answered verily,verily, I say unto thee except a
man be born of water and of theSpirit, he cannot enter into
(12:33):
the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the fleshis flesh and that which is born
of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I say unto thee, you must be born again.
There you go.
Brandon (12:47):
So Jesus says you must be born again.
It always cracks me up becausehere's Nicodemus, who is a
Pharisee, very educated guy whenit comes to the Old Testament
law, to the Torah, to the Tanakh, and what does he do?
He just folds.
When Jesus says you must beborn again, he's like you mean,
I got to crawl back in mymommy's belly and be born again,
(13:09):
and it's just.
And later on Jesus actuallyquestions him and says you're a
teacher, like I always love,that.
You're a master of the Jews?
Yeah, you're the guy and youdon't understand this you don't,
yeah, but you know.
The cool thing about Nicod,though, is when Jesus, after he
dies.
I don't know if you guys knowthis, but after Jesus died, a
(13:30):
lot of people know that Josephof Arimathea took his body and
had a tomb and placed him in hisown tomb.
Joseph Borrowed tomb, right.
Well, the Bible tells us in theGospels that the guy who helped
Joseph prepare the body, takethe body down and go put it in
the tomb, was Nicodemus.
I believe this is my belief,and maybe my hope more than
(13:53):
anything is that Nicodemus tookto heart the words of the story
that we just read and became abeliever in Jesus Christ.
But I want to focus on whatJesus said there.
What does he say?
He said a man must be bornagain.
Marvel, not that I say unto you, you must be born again.
So maybe you are new toChristianity, new to Bible study
, but chances are you've heardthat phrase.
(14:15):
Have you ever been born again?
A lot of times, people who don'tbelieve the Bible they kind of
poke fun at are you a born againChristian?
It kind of is a laugh line.
Have you been born againChristian?
It kind of is a laugh line, youknow.
Have you been born again, youknow, and they kind of use it to
tease us and poke at us but,literally, if we're going to
understand what happened to uswhen I got saved, when I, you
(14:36):
know, got my sins forgiven, whenI got justified, another
accurate biblical way todescribe what happened to you
and I believe my favorite way isyou were born again.
Okay, born again.
I was born in 1981, in July14th.
I had a birthday where I wasphysically born.
(14:58):
But guess what?
If you're a believer, you notonly have a birth date, but you
have a salvation date, a datethat you were born again into
the family of God.
That's what Jesus is sayinghere.
Now I want to point out onething here, because the purpose
of this podcast is to correctcrappy doctrine.
Okay, and there's so muchcrappy doctrine out there.
(15:21):
Okay.
And I want to say this and thisis probably going to give me
some flat Okay, but what I'mabout to say affects people who
believe in baptismalregeneration, church of Christ,
christian church.
Countless religious leadersthat show up on my TikTok and
(15:43):
annoy the crap out of me becausethey teach you must be water
baptized to be saved.
Here is where they base part ofthat belief on.
What does Jesus say?
Verse five he says verily.
Verily, I say unto thee excepta man be born of water and of
the spirit, he cannot enter intothe kingdom of God.
And so they'll take that verseand they'll run with it.
(16:04):
See right there, it says youmust be born of water and the
spirit.
So you got to have water baptism.
Matt, you have to have waterbaptism.
I don't know if you knew that,buddy.
Matt (16:14):
I've been born of water, even before I was baptized.
Brandon (16:19):
No, I was no.
No, that's not what that guy onTikTok said.
I really was no.
No, that's not what that guy onTikTok said I really was.
That's not what they said, Idon't.
This blows my mind because thisis a classic example.
When you say and it's anotherone like Acts 2.38, they'll say
you know what do we do?
They heard the message of Peterpreaching on the day of
(16:40):
Pentecost.
They say what do we do?
Repent and be baptized.
And so they say look rightthere it says you've got to be
baptized to be saved.
But they don't count all theother times in the book of Acts
and in the New Testament whereit says that you turn to Christ,
you believe, you repent, and itleaves out baptism.
Okay, so I guess it's classiccherry-picking verses, but it's
(17:00):
not hard, guys.
I always tell our folks I'm apastor of a church, here's what
I always tell them.
Okay, when you come across abelief like that and something
that sounds because if you readthat verse it does sound like
you need to be I mean, if youjust that one verse you must be
born of water and of the Spirit,you can I can see how people
can arrive at water.
(17:21):
Baptism is necessary forsalvation.
But here's what I don'tunderstand Not reading the next
verse.
If you read the next verse, itanswers the question.
Matt (17:32):
You read the next verse.
It answers the question andplus it's like we say it's got
to be in context, has to be.
It's got to be in context ofthe period it was written Right
and the period that this wastranslated Right, which is the
1600s and the 100s.
Brandon (17:49):
You have to factor all this in.
So what does the next verse say?
It says now watch this, itclarifies it man must be born of
water and of the Spirit.
He cannot enter into thekingdom of God.
Verse 5.
Verse 6 says that which is bornof the Flesh, flesh is flesh.
That which is born of thespirit is spirit.
So what did Jesus say in versefive?
(18:10):
He said you gotta be born ofwater and the spirit.
And in verse six he saysbecause everything that's born
of the flesh is flesh andeverything that's born of the
spirit is spirit.
So verse six adds context towhat he meant in verse five.
He wasn't talking about waterbaptism in a baptistry tank or a
lake or a creek where you gotbaptized.
He is saying you must be bornof the flesh.
(18:33):
Every person that's ever livedlived in their mama's belly okay
, in amniotic fluid, in water.
And we loosely say, when awoman goes into labor, what the
water broke.
Her water broke, wow, oh, wow.
That's what Jesus is talkingabout.
He's not talking about waterbaptism, he's talking about
(18:54):
being born again of the Spirit.
So you must have a fleshlybirth date and you must be born
again spiritually.
That's what he's saying.
Yeah, okay.
So that leads me to thisquestion, because this is the
confusing part, I think, for alot of people when you were
justified, the moment you weresaved, I told you guys last week
(19:15):
I was saved in October of 1988as a seven-year-old boy.
Here's my question for you whatpart of me got saved?
I am a body, a soul, which ismy mind, my emotions and my will
and spirit.
So what part of me was saved?
(19:37):
Was I spiritually saved?
Was my soul saved?
Was my body saved?
Okay, jesus said if you want toexperience the kingdom of God,
you must be born of the Spirit.
Whatsoever is born of the fleshis flesh.
Whatsoever is born of theSpirit capital S is Spirit.
(20:02):
So the answer to that questionis the day that I received
Christ, was justified, became abeliever, got saved, was born
again however you want to say it, I was born again in my spirit.
I was spiritually reborn.
Now I'm going to say twocontroversial things here.
Your mind, your emotions andyour will was not saved.
(20:26):
The day you got saved, the dayyou were justified, the day you
were born again, your mind, youremotions and your will didn't
all change.
No, your thinking didn'tautomatically change.
I'm going to say anothercontroversial thing your body
didn't get saved, no, and itstill ain't Well, I'll go a step
(20:50):
further.
Matt (20:50):
It never gets saved, until glorification.
Brandon (20:56):
But what happens during glorification?
It's changed, so it never does.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, it gets changed Becauseit's corruptible.
It's corrupted.
This corruptible must put onincorruptible.
1 Corinthians 15.
That's great, it's corrupted.
This corruptible must put onincorruptible.
Yeah, 1 Corinthians 15.
That's great, that's great.
So we see there, right there,that Jesus says you must be born
(21:19):
again in the spirit.
Now I want to show you a versethat is often it's a great verse
, but, man, if I had a dollarfor every time that I heard this
verse used out of context.
2 Corinthians 5.17,.
I think I've heard everyrevival preacher that I've ever
heard in my life preach this,and usually it is to preach to
(21:41):
condemn and make you feel badbecause you're doing sin in your
life.
Okay, and here's what it says 2Corinthians 5.17,.
It says, therefore, if any manbe in Christ, he is a new
creature.
Old things are passed away,behold, all things are become
(22:02):
new.
Great verse, okay, so if I'm inChrist, I'm a new creature or
new creation.
Old things are passed away,behold, all things are become
new.
So I've heard that applied topeople who are still thinking
(22:25):
wrong, using words that arewrong, claiming that they're
saved, but their actions, theystill have slip-ups and parts of
their life that don't look likea Christian should.
And so preachers like me okay,get upset at that and take that
verse and say if you're part ofChrist, you're a new creation.
(22:47):
Old things have passed away.
So if the old things didn'tpass away, if your mouth didn't
change automatically, if yourlife didn't change automatically
, if your thought processesdidn't change automatically, if
you still slip up and do thewrong thing, if you're still
smoking, drinking, if you do anyof that stuff, you didn't
really get saved.
I want to tell you, and we'lltake the flag for it, that's not
(23:10):
what that verse means.
Now let me prove it to you yourspirit got saved.
What I'm presenting to youtoday is that your spirit got
saved, that your soul didn't,your mind didn't, your emotions
didn't, your will didn't,neither did your flesh.
That's what I'm saying, that'swhat I'm presenting to you, and
I'll prove it to you.
Okay, if you were ugly beforeyou got saved, you're still ugly
(23:38):
.
Do you know that?
Yeah, if you're fat before yougot saved, guess what?
You're still fat.
Yeah, well, brennan, that'ssilly.
No, if you're going to quotethat verse and say that
everything changes at the momentof salvation, all things are
become new, then everything hasto be perfect, because when
(23:59):
Jesus changed you, he made youperfect so he wouldn't leave you
overweight and ugly and allthis kind of stuff.
No, he wouldn't do it.
All things have become new.
That means that you have tothink all the right thoughts
from the moment of justificationon, because old things are gone
.
You can't think the old wayanymore.
If you have bad thoughts, youweren't saved.
If you do the wrong thing, everyou weren't saved.
(24:22):
Now I've heard preachers preachthat, but I'm going to cut them
some slack because I don'tthink you really believe that
when it comes right down to it.
Matt (24:32):
Okay, because they still believe that you can mess up.
I guarantee that they don'tbelieve it, because any sin
would disqualify you at thatpoint I mean anything from a
wrong thought.
Brandon (24:47):
Old things are passed away.
Behold, all things are new.
Matt.
Matt (24:50):
Even if you didn't act on it.
Jesus tells us in the Bible ifyou thought it, you're guilty of
it.
Brandon (24:59):
You shouldn't commit adultery.
You shouldn't even look at awoman to lust after her, or
you've committed adulteryalready, with her in your heart.
You shouldn't hate your brother.
I mean all that Sermon on theMount stuff, adultery already
with her in your heart.
Yes, you shouldn't hate yourbrother, right?
Yeah, I mean all that Sermon onthe Mount stuff.
Okay, let's apply it.
Let me ask you this Ifeverything changed and what I'm
presenting to you is that youwere born again in your spirit,
(25:22):
but you are going to be saved inyour mind that's the
sanctification process and youwill be saved in your body,
which is the glorificationprocess.
Okay, it has to be that way.
What Jesus said, you must beborn of the spirit.
So the old things passed awayis not talking about anything at
the moment.
Instantaneously and completely,it's talking about.
(25:43):
The only thing it can betalking about is my spiritual
man.
Otherwise, chapters like thisright here wouldn't make sense.
Romans 7.
Listen to the apostle Paul.
He says now, if I do that, Iwould not.
It is no more I that do it, butsin that dwelleth in me.
I find, then, a law that when Iwould do good, evil is present
(26:04):
with me.
Now I don't think Paul's read 2Corinthians yet, because all
things are supposed to be brandnew, paul, you're not supposed
to have evil present with you.
But he goes on.
He says for I delight in thelaw of God after the inward man,
but I see another law in mymembers, whoa, in my members, my
body Warring against the law ofmy mind verse 23, and bringing
(26:29):
me into captivity to the law ofsin.
Hold on, this is a Christian.
This is not only a Christian,this is the greatest Christian
probably ever to live, theApostle Paul.
And he's saying that he sees alaw in his members, in his body,
warring against his mind andbringing him into captivity to
the law of sin, which is in mymembers.
In verse 24, he cries out.
(26:49):
He says, oh wretched man, thatI am Not, I was, I am.
Who shall deliver me from thebody of this death?
I thank God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So then, with the mind, Imyself serve the law of God, but
with the flesh the law of sin.
So he says in my mind, I servethe law of God.
(27:11):
So Paul had experienced thesanctification of renewing his
mind, but his flesh didn'talways follow along with what he
wanted to do, and he says thatearlier in the chapter.
For the will is present with me, but how to perform?
So what?
Matt (27:23):
does that mean he compares it to dragging along a dead
body?
That's how it feels, as aChristian sometimes.
Yeah, I mean, you've got a bodythat wants to sin.
It's going to want to sin.
Brandon (27:37):
And he says when I would do good, evil is present
with me.
So the more you want to do good, the more your body rebels and
wants to do bad.
Yeah, rebels and wants to dobad, yeah.
So somebody out there right nowis saying I'm in an internal
(28:00):
struggle.
I'm a Christian, I'm a believer, but I don't feel saved because
my body is rebelling against me.
Yeah, I want to say somethingto you and I've said this to
many people, I've said this tomany crowds and I want you to
find some healing in this.
Okay, the fact that you'rehaving that internal struggle of
I don't know if I'm savedbecause my flesh does this and I
want to do right but I keepmessing up.
(28:21):
But I'm a Christian, I know Igot saved, I know I trusted
Christ and you're in thatinternal struggle.
Let me tell you something thatis not evidence that you're not
saved.
To me, that's great evidencethat you are saved, because
unsaved people don't doubt theirsalvation.
Do you understand that Unsavedpeople say, well, I don't feel
(28:41):
saved.
They don't know what it's liketo be saved.
They don't sit there and undoand doubt what they settled in
faith.
You settled it in faith and youknow what it's like to taste
and see that God is good andyour body rebels on you and you
know that your body is not inline with God.
And so what do you do?
You feel that friction, thatstruggle that Paul's talking
about in Romans 7.
(29:02):
Man, that's great evidence thatyou are saved.
Take comfort in that, Okay.
Take comfort in that, okay.
It doesn't excuse your bodyrebelling against God.
But I want you to understandthe dynamic of what's going on.
You are a born-again believer.
You are saved.
You are born again.
You're secure in that salvation.
You've got to sanctify yourmind and get your mind to change
(29:27):
your body's actions, your mindand get your mind to change your
body's actions, okay, but itdoesn't change that you were
spiritually reborn, becauseRomans seven wouldn't make sense
If second Corinthians five, 17was talking about your flesh and
your and all your mind savedall at once.
It's not what it talks about,okay, um, scriptures like um
Hebrews chapter five.
Let's look at that one, hebrewschapter five.
(29:50):
It brings up a topic that, man,we don't really.
People always say Christiansproduce fruit, right.
Yeah, can I tell you something,matt?
You're a gardener, right.
You and your wife grow a biggarden every year, and you guys
(30:10):
can a lot, is that right?
Yep, let me tell you something,matt.
You're a gardener, right,mm-hmm?
You and your wife grow a biggarden every year, and you guys
can a lot, is that right?
Yep, let me ask you somethingwhen do you plant?
When are you going to startplanting your garden?
It's already started.
What do you got?
Matt (30:19):
in Lettuce cabbage a few things, cold weather stuff.
Brandon (30:25):
How much have you eaten off that garden yet?
Matt (30:28):
nothing.
Well, I've ate.
Brandon (30:29):
I've ate some asparagus okay, no cabbage, though no
lettuce no, no cabbage orlettuce.
Matt (30:34):
When are you going to plant your beans and your corn?
Brandon (30:37):
um, probably the end of the month.
So the end of this month, and Iimagine you so, uh, april, end
of the end of this month is what?
Matt (30:46):
first of the week yeah, yeah, it's another week or so.
Brandon (30:49):
So you'll probably have corn and beans probably what by
Tuesday.
Matt (30:55):
Tuesday in July.
Brandon (30:57):
How long does it take to grow corn and beans?
Matt?
60 to 90 days minimum 60 to 90days for corn and beans.
Hold on.
Matt (31:05):
Sometimes 120.
Brandon (31:06):
So you mean you put a seed in ground and you have to
take 60, 90, 120 days to get thefruit of that seed?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, it takes time to getfruit.
Matt (31:18):
It always takes time.
Brandon (31:19):
I thought, fruit just happens.
Matt (31:24):
Not here Huh.
Brandon (31:27):
Hmm, some of you preachers out there need to
realize that fruit doesn't justhappen.
Yeah, fruit doesn't just happen.
Stop expecting people that walkinto church that have never
heard.
I pastor a very diverse church.
I've got people who were raisedBaptist, lutheran, catholic,
(31:49):
agnostic, pentecostal inwitchcraft.
I've got the gamut.
Stop expecting people to walkin trust Christ.
And look how you look,hopefully after you've been
saved since 1988.
Because I'm going to tell youthis, I know me and I've been
(32:12):
saved a long time, but sometimesI think that some of these
young Christians are moving at afaster pace than I am.
Fruit takes a minute to grow.
Salvation and your relationshipwith the Lord and your walk
with the Lord is compared tofruit, and you know what else is
compared to being a baby andgrowing to maturity.
(32:33):
Look at this Hebrews, chapter 5, it says verse 11,.
It says of whom we have manythings to say and are hard to be
uttered.
Seeing, you're dull of hearing,for when, for the time, you
ought to be teachers, you haveneed that one.
Teach you again which be thefirst principles of the oracles
of God and are become such ashave need of milk and not of
(32:54):
strong meat.
So the writer of Hebrews here,whoever you believe it is is
going through and he's sayingyou guys are dull of hearing.
You're supposed to be a teachernow, but I'm having to come
back and instruct you againbecause you don't have it
figured out.
You become as such as have needof milk and not of strong meat.
Verse 13 says for everyone thatuseth milk is unskillful in the
(33:15):
word of righteousness, for heis a babe or baby, okay, but
strong meat belongeth to themthat are of full age, even those
who, by reason of use, havetheir senses exercised to
discern both good and evil.
And chapter six goes on and saystherefore, leaving the
principles of the doctrine ofChrist, let us go on unto
perfection.
What does that mean?
It means grow up, okay.
(33:37):
So what happens?
Let's put this in context,because we're discussing last
week and this week what happensat salvation.
We discussed the three tensesthe past, present and future
tense justification,sanctification, glorification.
So I have been saved, I ambeing saved and I will be saved.
I was saved from the penalty ofsin at justification.
At sanctification, I'm beingdelivered from the power of sin
(33:59):
over my life and justification.
At sanctification, I'm beingdelivered from the power of sin
over my life.
And then at glorification, I'mgoing to be delivered from the
very presence of sin.
Okay, but when I was justified,guess what I was?
I was a baby.
I was a seed in Matt's garden,and it's going to take some time
all right, with consistent soil, weather, water to grow fruit.
Stop expecting some of youmature Christians out there
(34:21):
Christians to be where you're atwhen you've been saved for a
decade or two decades, and youexpect them to be where you're
at after two months.
Okay, we have to allow peopletime to grow.
Paul and the writers in the NewTestament, the writer of Hebrews
, was very patient with peopleand let them grow.
But you know what he also did,though?
(34:42):
When they weren't growing fastenough, he wrote them the writer
of Hebrews in Hebrews 5, and hegave them a swift kick in the
pants and said, hey, you'resupposed to be a teacher now and
I'm having to come back andteach you again.
It shouldn't be like that.
He was okay with hurrying themalong when they were stagnating
on the vine, if you will, andnot producing the fruit that
they should when they should,but he was patient.
(35:02):
At the beginning they were ababy.
There were things that hedidn't even teach them yet
because he couldn't handle it,because he couldn't handle the
meat yet.
Okay, so this whole salvationthing is a process that you grow
to maturity.
So what happened when I gotsaved?
My spirit got saved, my mind isbeing saved, it's being changed
and renovated.
(35:22):
Romans, chapter 12, verse 2,conform, don't conform to the
world, but be transformed.
That means renovate by therenewing or the renovating of
your mind, your thoughts, that'syour soul, your mind, emotions
will Okay, but also my flesh isbeing.
It will be saved, all right.
So here's kind of how I explainit to some people sometimes Okay
(35:43):
, we have a swimming pool athome.
Okay, at that swimming pool wehave a over by the, where the
guts of the pool are, and thepumps and all that kind of stuff
.
We have a valve that you turn,okay, and there's a main drain
in the bottom of the pool andthen there's the skimmer over
(36:03):
here, so I can divert the flowof the water going through the
system to the main drain or tothe valve, or I can keep it
right in the center and kind ofkeep suction on both.
Okay, that's how it is in yourChristian life.
When you're born again, you'reborn again in the spirit.
Okay, over here, here's aspirit and your body is in
rebellion.
Right, your body is inrebellion against God.
(36:26):
So the spirit is pulling thisway and the body's pulling this
way.
It's what Paul talks about inRomans 7.
So who determines who wins?
Okay, here's what I want you tounderstand.
The battle is won in your mind,in your thinking.
It's what you think, it's whatyou dwell on, here's what I want
you to understand.
The battle is won in your mind,in your thinking.
It's what you think, it's whatyou dwell on, it's what you
meditate on, it's what you tellyourself.
(36:46):
Okay, so your soul, your mind,emotions and will turn the valve
either toward the spirit ortoward your flesh.
Okay, if you want to get boggeddown and let your flesh win,
okay, the valve is turned towardyour flesh.
If you want to get bogged downand let your flesh win, the
valve is turned toward yourflesh and you don't listen to
the spirit.
But if you want the spirit towin, you turn that valve and you
(37:09):
allow the spirit to flowthrough, change your thinking
and it will ultimately come outyour body in good ways, but it
can also in bad ways.
So the valve is the mind.
Does that make sense?
It does, yeah, yeah.
So when we think about this alittle bit further, I want to
show you another scripturebecause it's one of the most
(37:31):
just eye-opening to me, romans,chapter number six.
Just eye-opening to me, romans,chapter number six.
I love this.
And in teaching what happens toyou when you trust Christ, this
is just eye-opening to me.
It helps me so much.
I want to look at several verses.
This is talking about whathappened to you and, spoiler
(37:52):
alert the word baptism comes upagain.
Okay, so here's what it says.
It says what shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin?
That grace may abound, godforbid.
How shall we that are dead tosin live any longer therein?
Notice that it says in versetwo that you are dead to sin.
Okay.
Then it says in verse threeknow you not that so many of us
(38:14):
as were baptized into JesusChrist were baptized into his
death?
Okay, so when I trusted Christ,if you read the full context of
this in Romans four and five,leading up to chapter six, you
see that when we, by faith, putour faith in Christ, we are
baptized into Christ.
(38:37):
Death, okay.
So everybody's familiar.
We talked about it last week.
The gospel is the death and theburial, the resurrection of
Jesus.
So Jesus was alive, he died, hewas buried, then he rose again.
Okay, this is why, when a newbeliever in the New Testament,
(38:57):
and all the way to this day whenyou accept Christ, you are to
be baptized by immersion, andall the way to this day when you
accept Christ, you are to bebaptized by immersion or all the
way under the water.
It's what the Bible teaches andthis is what many churches and
churches that I think rightlydivide scripture do.
They don't sprinkle or pourwater on the head, they immerse.
Why?
Because baptism is a symbol, anacting out of what happened to
(39:20):
you when you trusted Christ.
You were alive, but then youdied into Christ and you were
raised.
Just like Jesus died and wasraised, you died into him,
baptized into him.
Don't always associate baptismwith water.
The word means immerse, okay,fully whelm is what it means in
(39:44):
the Greek, to fully overwhelm orfully surround, fully whelm.
So when you accepted Christ,you were baptized into Christ.
You were fully whelmed, fullyimmersed into Christ.
Okay, you were buried with him.
And the Bible says in Romans 6that you are not alive any
longer.
You're dead to sin.
(40:04):
You're baptized into Jesusverse 3,.
And you're baptized into hisdeath.
Now watch this verse 4.
Therefore, we are buried withhim by baptism into death.
That like as Christ was raisedup from the dead by the glory of
the Father.
Even so, we also should walk innewness of life.
So we died into Christ.
(40:27):
We were buried with him.
Our sin is dead.
We are dead to sin.
But now what are we?
We're a new creation in thespirit and now we can walk in
newness of life.
I hope that makes sense to you.
So after you got saved and yougot baptized, when you went down
(40:47):
in that water and came up,after the belief was already in
your heart, you were already aChristian.
Getting wet in the tank didn'tmake you saved or not saved it.
just what did it do?
It pictured what happened toyou when you did trust Christ.
You were buried into him andyou were raised to walk in a new
way of life.
Matt (41:07):
And you have to look at the moment of your salvation.
Your flesh, your body did notdie Right, otherwise we wouldn't
be here.
Brandon (41:20):
But the Bible says, when we're about to see it, that
your old man did and that'swhat we're going to see.
So who's dead and in the graveand who's alive?
Matt (41:30):
Verse 5 that leads you to which piece of you that this?
Brandon (41:38):
Is talking about.
Matt (41:39):
Section is talking about.
Brandon (41:40):
Your spirit, your soul, your body, yep, okay.
So verse five says for if wehave been planted together in
the likeness of his death, weshall be also in the likeness of
his resurrection.
So the word planted in versefive and the word baptism in
verse four are used as synonyms.
One is a picture of baptism,but one is planted.
(42:02):
You're planted like a body'sput into a tomb.
You're planted with him in thelikeness of his death.
We shall be also in thelikeness of his resurrection.
Look at this verse six knowingthis, that our old man is
crucified with him, that thebody of sin might be destroyed,
that the body of sin might bedestroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin, for hethat is dead is freed from sin.
(42:26):
Now here's a concept that a lotof people don't understand.
Okay, and this is where we gooff the rails with what happened
to us at salvation.
And here's what I want to bereal clear on the old you, the
sinful you all of.
When I say the old you, I'mtalking about the you prior to
(42:47):
belief in Christ, prior to youtrusting Christ.
Okay, the old you when youtrusted Christ, dies into Christ
and a new you is raised, aspiritual you.
You're born again in the spiritraised to walk in newness of
life.
The old you, verse number six,says the old man is crucified
(43:10):
with him.
That the body of sin might bedestroyed, that henceforth you
should not serve sin, for hethat is dead is freed from sin.
You died the day that youtrusted Christ.
The old you, the sinful you Letme say this, and this is
controversial and I know it theyou that had a sinful record
(43:30):
died.
That sinful record is gonebecause that man that committed
those sins is gone.
You are raised, a new spiritualperson that has no sin record.
That's why you are justified.
Remember what justified means.
Just as if you'd never sinned.
You have a clean, clear record,just like the back of that
(43:51):
sheet is clean and clear, withno writing on it.
You used to have a record thathad tons of writing on it, but
now you've been baptized intoChrist, you've been planted with
him.
The old you is dead.
Now you have nothing but ablank slate.
You say, brandon, I don'tbelieve that.
Well, the Bible says thatyou're dead to sin.
Okay, now he goes on and he saysthis Now, if we'd be dead with
(44:14):
Christ, we believe that we shallalso live with him, knowing
that Christ, being raised fromthe dead, dieth no more.
Death hath no more dominionover him, for in that he died,
he died unto sin once, but inthat he liveth, he liveth unto
God.
Likewise I love this part.
(44:35):
Don Don't miss this.
Likewise, reckon ye yourselvesto be dead, indeed, unto sin,
but alive unto God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So here's what he's saying.
He said, jesus, you know howmany times Jesus died Once.
You know how many times he wasburied Once?
How many times did he rise fromthe dead?
Once?
(44:56):
Now, this is going to becontroversial.
Once Now, this is going to becontroversial.
How many times can you beburied into Christ and raised as
a new person?
One time Salvation, when youunderstand the rebirth in the
spirit?
I know it's a hot button topicthe once saved, always saved
argument.
We're going to address it.
But once you are born again,you can never be unborn again
(45:21):
Because by the very nature ofbeing born again, it's a
one-time event.
And that's what Jesus said whenhe was died.
He died once and he died nomore for sin.
He was buried once and he wasraised once.
So verse 11 says likewise or inthe way that that was in the way
that Jesus was reckon, ye, alsoyourselves, or think that way
(45:45):
for yourselves, that you aredead, indeed, unto sin, but
alive unto God, through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So he tells us here that we areto see ourself, our old man, as
gone dead done, are to seeourself, our old man, as gone
dead done, and the you that'sbefore you right now, matt, I'm
born again in the spirit.
Now, what got saved, guys?
(46:07):
My spirit got saved.
My mind is getting renovated,but it's not there yet.
My body's not there yet, but onthe inside of me is a new man,
the born-again man, theborn-again spiritual man.
The born-again spiritual man isthere on the inside of me, okay
, and it doesn't mean that myflesh can sin.
(46:29):
So that brings up a goodquestion, right?
Why do we sin outwardly withour body, even as Christians,
when we have a new man on theinside?
Yeah, body, even as Christians,when we have a new man on the
inside.
And the best answer that I cancome up with on that is that the
(46:50):
old man, the old man, trainedmy brain and my flesh.
Yeah, and they're under sin.
They're under the tutelage ofsin.
They're under the tutelage ofsin, and even though the old man
is dead, I still think of thethings that he taught me to
think.
Okay.
Matt (47:07):
Go ahead and you look at it this way.
So, from the original sin, whatwas the curse of that sin?
Corruption, and our bodies aregoing to die, right, okay, when
you get saved, does this bodyever pass away?
That you're in?
(47:28):
Right, so it doesn't was reborn.
If those verses were talkingabout the flesh being renewed
and reborn, we would not dieafter salvation, but by the very
(47:51):
fact that we do still die aftersalvation.
Brandon (47:55):
Those verses aren't talking about the flesh.
They're not talking about theflesh.
They can't be.
They can't be, Otherwise theywould be wrong, absolutely.
Matt (48:02):
They're not talking about a physical baptism of this
physical body, right, otherwisethey would be wrong, because
that condemnation of sin, theoriginal sin that we inherited,
is still on us, absolutely, evenafter salvation.
Absolutely so we are— On on us,absolutely, absolutely, even
after salvation.
Absolutely so we are On ourflesh.
Brandon (48:23):
I should say we are brand new creation in Christ,
born again in the spirit, beingsanctified or being saved in our
soul, our mind, emotions andwill, and bringing into
subjection our body.
But one day our body will beglorified.
Now I wanna show you, if youflip back a page or two in
(48:44):
Romans.
This is so.
We gotta start thinking thisway.
Remember he said in versenumber 11 of chapter six
likewise reckon ye yourselves tobe dead, indeed into sin, but
alive unto God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So what Paul's telling us inthe book of Romans is you need
to start thinking this way.
You need to realize that stopsaying I'm a sinner because you
(49:09):
aren't a sinner.
The old you was a sinner, buthe is dead.
Start telling yourself that youare a son of God, that you have
been born again, that sindoesn't have power over you,
that, hey, flesh, you don't getto boss me around because you're
not my boss anymore.
Sin's not my boss anymore.
I am raised to walk in newnessof life.
(49:32):
That's what he says in verse 11, that you need to start
reckoning or thinking like.
But in Romans, chapter four,there's a quote from David, and
I just want you to startthinking like this you are a new
creation, remember, with aclean record.
Clean record, no sin on yourrecord.
(49:52):
Why?
Because the old guy that hadthe sin and the old lady that
had the sin is dead and you'reraised to walk in newness of
life.
That's why you are not a sinneranymore.
If you've been savedtechnically, scripturally
teaching you are not a sinneranymore Doesn't mean that your
flesh cannot sin.
But listen to me, your flesh isnot you anymore, your flesh
(50:15):
just houses you.
This right here is not me.
The real me is my spiritual manwho's been reborn.
The old Brandon Matheson, priorto salvation, prior to
justification, is dead, alongwith the sin record that he had.
Now look at this, because ifthat doesn't, I know some of you
(50:35):
this is gonna be tough pill toswallow because you hadn't been
taught this.
But I want you to just let itkind of sit and soak in your
brain, meditate on it, pray onit.
Don't take my word for it.
Get in the scriptures and readit.
Romans, chapter four quotesDavid and it says this in verse
five but to him that worketh notbut believeth on him that
justifieth the ungodly, hisfaith is counted for
(50:56):
righteousness.
So you access the grace of Godthrough faith.
By grace, through faith, you'resaved.
Verse six says even as Davidalso describeth the blessedness
of the man unto whom Godimputeth righteousness without
works.
Did you know that when Godgives you salvation and you
don't work for it, you are ablessed man?
That's what David said.
Verse 7 says, saying blessed arethey whose iniquities are
(51:20):
forgiven and whose sins arecovered.
Aren't you glad that youriniquities are forgiven when
you're in Christ, your sinscovered?
But, and whose sins are covered?
Aren't you glad that youriniquities are forgiven when
you're in Christ?
Your sin's covered?
Yeah, but watch this.
Here is a little known benefitof salvation.
Verse 8 says blessed is the manto whom the Lord will not
impute sin.
The word impute there is aGreek word.
(51:40):
It's an accounting term.
So if you have an account rightthat gets charges charged to it
.
Let's say you got a credit card, you got an account tied to
that credit card and every timeyou swipe that card, what
happens?
A charge gets charged to youraccount.
Well, god says if you have beenforgiven, not by working for it,
(52:04):
but by God giving yourighteousness, your iniquities
are forgiven, your sins are goneand God doesn't charge sin,
charge sin, impute sin to youanymore.
So people say well, does Godthe moment you get saved, does
God forgive you of all of yoursin, past, present and future?
(52:25):
And my answer to that,biblically speaking and I know
some of you will be like what?
From the moment you trustChrist, you are not a sinner
anymore and God no longerimputes sin to you.
Okay, your sin is gone.
All of your past sin at thatmoment is gone and no sin is
ever charged to you again.
(52:46):
He said, brandon, that doesn'tsound right.
That's the grace of God andthat's what the Bible clearly
says.
We're just dabbling in a fewverses of this and we're digging
deep in Romans 4 and 5 and 6.
But the Bible makes this veryclear that when you receive
Christ, you're born again in theSpirit and no sin is imputed to
(53:07):
you any longer.
Matt (53:08):
And if you look at it from Jewish law, sacrificial law.
It has to be that way, becausewhen did Christ die?
Roughly 2,000 years ago, okay,I had not committed a single sin
(53:32):
2,000 years ago, right.
So everything was in the future.
Everything was in the future,right.
And then you take into contextthat God exists outside of time.
Mm-hmm, okay, exist outside oftime.
Okay, so everything is rightnow for God, right, you know
(53:53):
that's right, yep, so yeah, well, I, this is, this is.
Brandon (54:01):
I know it's a lot to take in, it's like it's a lot,
but you, you, you must be bornagain.
Jesus says of the Spirit, okay,and the moment that you trust
Christ and are justified, itdoesn't mean that your flesh got
saved, it doesn't mean that youautomatically your mind, you
(54:22):
just have no bad thoughtsanymore.
No, there's a process calledsanctification, where you grow
and you begin to produce fruit.
And, yes, you will producefruit.
When the Spirit of God is onthe inside of you, you will.
Okay, we're not arguing that,but what we're saying is that
there is allowed a time forgrowth.
(54:42):
Your spirit was reborn, you areno longer a sinner.
Okay, and I'm going to just setup.
Next time that we come back in,we're going to talk about the
divine nature that we have,because when I trusted Christ, I
was born again as a spiritualperson and now I have a whole
(55:03):
new nature on the inside of methat God says is right there for
the taking, and all I've got todo is unleash it and let it out
and run wild and take overright.
And he tells us how to do thisand we're going to show you in 2
Peter, how he says, to releasethe divine nature in our life,
(55:25):
because you're born again of thespirit.
I got this old brain though,this old soul that has stinking
bad thinking, and I've got torenovate it and conform it to
God's way.
And I got this body that I'mtrying to bring into subjection.
But I am not my body and I amnot.
I am that spiritual man.
(55:47):
Okay, I am that spiritual manthat was reborn.
Matt (55:51):
The old man was baptized into Jesus' death and the new
man was raised to walk innewness of life and it's a
process and it's like we've gotto understand that it is that
process and we've got and overand over in the Bible.
It says it's a process and it'snot just the.
Brandon (56:16):
Romans verse.
It's not a process just toclarify, to be justified, that
takes faith in a moment of time,faith in a moment's notice.
Matt (56:25):
It's the salvation that, the worksbased salvation that
everyone attaches to it.
Right, right, you've got torepent.
You've got to have the fruitYou've got to.
If there's no fruit, youweren't saved.
Right, you know what's yourbuddy that you like the videos,
doc, he says the fruit police,yeah.
Brandon (56:44):
There are the fruit.
Police are out, yep.
Matt (56:47):
And you know, it's a few pastors that I listen to.
Occasionally they're like ohyou know, I don't want to sin, I
don't this and that and theother, and as soon as you get
saved, you shouldn't be that way, yeah, that way, and it's just
not.
You know there's verses inHebrews that literally goes
(57:09):
through the same thing fromRomans that you need milk, not
solid food.
Anyone lives on milk.
Being still an infant is notacquainted with the teachings
about righteousness.
Brandon (57:22):
Right, right.
Well, that's what we're goingto come down to is that the key
is understanding the Word of God, and this is the Bible Says
podcast.
And when we understand what theBible says about who we are in
Christ, now that I'm saved andthat I'm not, no sin is imputed
to me.
I'm not a sinner anymore.
I am to think differently thanit unleashes the power for me to
(57:46):
let the divine nature take overand produce the fruit of the
Spirit in my life.
Matt (57:51):
And that's what we're going to get into.
And it literally says you're ababy, so you're saved, right.
And you don't understandrighteousness yet, right?
So how are you supposed to bechanged?
That's right.
How are you supposed to haverepented from all those things
when it literally says in theBible that you're still a baby,
(58:14):
you're not ready for meat orsteak, because you don't
understand?
Brandon (58:19):
righteousness yet.
So in coming episodes we'regoing to look at that.
We'll continue to look at whathappens at the moment of
salvation, what happens aftersalvation, and then we're going
to look at because there's someof you out there that are
starting to listen to this forthe first time and you're not a
born again believer yet and wewant to show you from the Bible
not what I say or Matt says,what my church says, or we don't
(58:42):
want you to listen to us andtake our word for it.
We want the Bible to speak, butwe want to tell you how that
you do get a relationship withChrist.
We've let you.
You've seen tidbits of it, butwe're going to focus on it.
It comes through by the grace ofGod that God loves you and
wants you to be saved and thatwhen you put your faith in Jesus
and the finished work of thecross, the death, burial and
(59:08):
resurrection to save you, thatyou're a sinner.
When you trust only him, youare born again in the spirit.
And then begins this process ofsanctification where he cleans
you up.
Okay, you do not catch fishthat are already cleaned.
You catch fish and then youhave to clean them.
Okay, wouldn't that be Right.
Yeah, so there's a processthere, and that process is
(59:29):
sanctification, but it beginswith justification, the moment
that you believe.
So we are going to pick upthere in some of these future
episodes and we're so excitedthat you guys are walking along
on this journey with us in theBible Says podcast, and we will
see you next time.
And until then, I'm BrandonMatheson and this is Matt Hunter
.
Matt Hunter, yeah, we'll seeyou later.
Bye, guys, matt, have a goodnight.
(59:49):
Buddy, you too.
The Bible says.
The Bible says podcast.
What does the Bible say ?
The Bible says the Bible sayspodcast.
All right, Matt, welcome to theBible Says Podcast.
This is episode two.
How's it going, buddy?
Awesome, Good to see you.
Awesome, yeah, Good to see you.
(00:30):
We had a good time on themaiden voyage.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
Matt (00:34):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun doing it.
Brandon (00:37):
It is.
I think this is going to be ablast and I think we are going
to talk about a lot of topics.
I've got a lot in my repertoireof what I want to talk about.
I'm a prophecy nerd so I can'twait till we get into some
prophecy, and I love thedifficult passages of the Bible
(00:57):
too the biblical prehistorystuff, the antediluvian stuff,
the Nephilim stuff.
That stuff's going to be prettyinteresting tied in with
Revelation.
Matt (01:06):
Yeah, that stuff's always cool, it's always interesting to
look at.
You can go off the deep end onit.
Yeah, maybe we will, and weprobably will, we probably will.
But you know it's the BibleSays podcast.
Brandon (01:24):
So we want to see what the Bible says about all those
things, and the Bible says a lotabout those things.
Matt (01:26):
It does, it turns out.
Brandon (01:27):
A lot about giants, a lot about those things.
So we're not there yet.
We're talking about otherthings, but prophecy, those kind
of things are going to pop upand we're excited about it.
This is the Bible Says podcast,where we take a good long hard
look at doctrines that youbelieve, I believe, and we see
what the truth is from abiblical lens and making sure
(01:49):
what we believe lines up withthe Bible, because ultimately,
what we want to believe is whatthe Bible says what the Bible
says, that's right, that's right.
Last time we were together, webegan at the paramount issue of
our day.
We began at the paramount issueof our day, which is
soteriology, salvation and whatit is, what it's not.
(02:11):
We defined the gospel as thedeath, burial and resurrection
of Jesus Christ.
We defined our hermeneuticalstance as believing that every
word of Scripture has beenbreathed out by God and
preserved for us, and we have afaithful representation of what
God wants us to have and we canbelieve every word and believe
(02:33):
it.
We're literally believing theBible, word for word, and we
also.
We started to wade into thewater of what happens at
salvation and we talked about aproblem that is out there when
it comes to salvation teachingwhether it's on a podcast like
this or behind a pulpit, aplatform, a revival, you know
(02:58):
whatever of attaching theprocess that the Bible clearly
defines as sanctification to theinstantaneous moment of
justification.
Matt (03:09):
Justification yeah, yeah.
Brandon (03:12):
So we were talking about that.
We were talking aboutjustification is the past tense
of salvation.
There's three tenses I havebeen saved, justified, but I am
being saved, which issanctification.
Saved, justified, but I ambeing saved, which is
sanctification, and that's theprocess of getting more clean
and becoming more like Christ,getting rid of sin and weights
that hold us back, but then,ultimately, I'm going to be
(03:32):
glorified glorification.
So past tense, present tense,future tense salvation.
Matt (03:40):
It plays into Paul's analogy of a race so much it's
like you got the start of therace, then you're running the
race Right, and then you've gotthe crown at the end of the race
Right.
Brandon (03:51):
Yeah, it is, it's a process and we want to kind of
pick up there, I guess tonight.
I want to go a little bitfurther, a little bit deeper
with that conversation.
Where we left off last week waswe were talking about that.
Just as God is three in one,one in three God the Father, god
(04:12):
the Son, god the Holy Spirit,we are three in one and one in
three as well.
The Bible talks about everyperson having a body, a soul and
a spirit.
And if we don't clearlyunderstand what he's talking
about and what the body, souland spirit are representing and
(04:32):
talking about and referencing,then we get mixed up on what
happened at salvation.
So I want to show you, I guess,a verse just right out of the
gate Genesis, chapter number two, verse number seven.
This is the creation accountwhere God is forming man.
And I want you to see verseseven of chapter two, and this
(04:55):
is in your Bible.
I'm reading from the King Jamesversion, but you'll see it no
matter which version that yousee.
It says and the Lord God formedman of the dust of the ground.
Okay, so the Lord God formedman of the dust of the ground.
He formed his.
What Formed his body.
Okay, so he formed his bodyfrom dust.
(05:17):
But notice this it says andbreathed into his nostrils the
breath of life.
So God breathed.
Okay, that is the spirit of God, the ruach, the ruach.
Okay, yes, god breathed intothis body that he made from dust
(05:40):
.
So we have the body, we havethe breath of God, the spirit of
God.
And then it says at the end ofthe verse and man became a
living soul.
Okay, so even all the way backat the beginning of scripture,
we have verses that point outthe body, the soul and the
spirit of God.
(06:02):
Not only those, but I'll showyou one from the New Testament
as well 2 Corinthians, I'm sorry, philippians, chapter number
two.
Philippians, chapter two.
I've got it marked herePhilippians, chapter two, verse
13.
It says this for it is Godwhich worketh in you both to
(06:27):
will and to do of his goodpleasure.
I always like this one becauseit says God is working in me.
Okay, as a believer in Christ,I know that the moment I trust
Christ, I become a recipient ofthe Holy Spirit, which is the
presence of God in my life.
He's my seal, he's thecomforter.
(06:49):
This is common knowledge for abeliever.
Right, we receive the HolySpirit, we're indwelt by him.
So God is in us, okay.
So the verse 13 of Philippians,chapter two, says for it is God
which worketh in us, in you, butwatch what he's doing.
It says both to will and to doof his good pleasure.
(07:12):
So both to will and do.
So God is working in me.
What's he trying to do?
He's trying to get me to willthe right things or think the
right things, want the rightthings.
But then he doesn't want me tojust have the right wants and
desires and think the rightthings, want the right things,
but then he doesn't want me tojust have the right wants and
desires and think the rightthings, he wants me to do those
things.
So what's he doing?
(07:32):
He's working in me to will andto do of his good pleasure.
So here in this verse we haveGod in me, right, the spirit.
And then we have he's trying toaffect my thoughts and get me
to think right, to will, right,that is my mind.
And then he wants me to think,not only think it, but do it
(07:56):
with my body.
So we have the spirit, soul andbody.
Now this, I think, is theconfusing part for folks.
They don't understandcompletely what the difference
is is the soul and the spirit?
Okay, your soul, the bestdefinition that I can give to
you your soul is it's you, it'syour mind and your emotions and
(08:19):
your will.
Okay, it's the verse that welooked at last week in Romans,
chapter 12, verse two.
It says and be not conformed tothis world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind.
Okay, so God wants to changeour mind.
What, what is that?
That is, that is me, how Ithink, what I, what I like, what
(08:41):
I dislike, my mind, my emotions, my will.
That is Brandon Matheson, thatis Matt Hunter.
Okay, so, your soul?
So, put that in context of whatwe talked about last week.
You know the justificationsanctification, glorification.
All right, the process.
(09:02):
Okay, I am a body, soul andspirit.
Okay, my spirit is that part ofme that communicates with God.
Okay, that was made alive byGod.
He formed man of the dust ofthe earth, the body.
He breathed into them thebreath of life.
Okay, what happens when Ibecome a believer, when I trust
(09:23):
Christ, when I'm saved, bornagain, all those synonyms that
we use?
God rebirths me.
I'm regenerated by his spirit.
Okay, so he's in me.
But what's he trying to do?
He's trying to get me to thinklike him, and he's trying to get
me to not only think like him,but use my body to do the things
he wants me to do.
(09:44):
So there is the spirit, thesoul and the body.
So your soul is your mind, yourthoughts, your emotions, your
will.
Your spirit is whatcommunicates with God and
obviously we know what your bodyis right.
It's this housing that we have,this excuse me shell that we
have.
Matt (10:03):
A thought.
Okay, it just kind of hit meYou've got the spirit, the soul
and the body, mm-hmm.
So you've got justification,sanctification and glorification
, mm-hmm.
Okay, justification your spiritwas reborn Right During
sanctification.
What?
Brandon (10:24):
is it?
Matt (10:24):
He's renewing your mind, your soul, your soul During
glorification.
You're getting a new body.
Brandon (10:32):
Right, so it is spirit, soul and body, past, present,
future, justified, sanctified,glorified.
Isn't that kind of crazy how itall fits together like that.
Matt (10:44):
Yeah, that's it, is that just kind of crazy how it all
fits together like that.
Yeah, that's it, is that justkind of hit me, that was pretty
wild.
Brandon (10:50):
That's pretty wild, it is crazy.
But doesn't that add clarity tothe fact that you know what?
I was born again in the spirit,the moment I was justified,
okay.
And now God is working on mymind, trying to get the right
thoughts to come out, my bodyright, and so he's working on me
, but ultimately he's going toredeem this body glorification.
(11:11):
So it's just really, reallycool, and that's where we want
to take the conversation next.
Because if you were to askanybody in all of the Bible how
do you become a member of thefamily of God, how do you become
justified in the eyes of God?
Your sins are forgiven and youhave eternal life?
If you're gonna ask anybodythat question, you're gonna ask
Jesus, right?
(11:31):
Yeah, well, that's what one guydid in John chapter three.
Let's look at it.
John chapter three, there's aguy named Nicodemus that came to
Jesus and it says in versenumber one Matt, you got it,
yeah.
I've got it Go ahead and readverse one through about seven.
Matt (11:50):
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a
ruler of the Jews.
The same came to Jesus by nightand said unto him Rabbi, we
know that thou art a teacher.
Come from God, for no man cando these miracles that thou
doest, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said untohim Verily, verily, I say unto
(12:11):
thee.
Except a man be born again, hecannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said unto him how cana man be born again when he is
old?
Can he enter the second timeinto the mother's womb and be
born?
And Jesus answered verily,verily, I say unto thee except a
man be born of water and of theSpirit, he cannot enter into
(12:33):
the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the fleshis flesh and that which is born
of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I say unto thee, you must be born again.
There you go.
Brandon (12:47):
So Jesus says you must be born again.
It always cracks me up becausehere's Nicodemus, who is a
Pharisee, very educated guy whenit comes to the Old Testament
law, to the Torah, to the Tanakh, and what does he do?
He just folds.
When Jesus says you must beborn again, he's like you mean,
I got to crawl back in mymommy's belly and be born again,
(13:09):
and it's just.
And later on Jesus actuallyquestions him and says you're a
teacher, like I always love,that.
You're a master of the Jews?
Yeah, you're the guy and youdon't understand this you don't,
yeah, but you know.
The cool thing about Nicod,though, is when Jesus, after he
dies.
I don't know if you guys knowthis, but after Jesus died, a
(13:30):
lot of people know that Josephof Arimathea took his body and
had a tomb and placed him in hisown tomb.
Joseph Borrowed tomb, right.
Well, the Bible tells us in theGospels that the guy who helped
Joseph prepare the body, takethe body down and go put it in
the tomb, was Nicodemus.
I believe this is my belief,and maybe my hope more than
(13:53):
anything is that Nicodemus tookto heart the words of the story
that we just read and became abeliever in Jesus Christ.
But I want to focus on whatJesus said there.
What does he say?
He said a man must be bornagain.
Marvel, not that I say unto you, you must be born again.
So maybe you are new toChristianity, new to Bible study
, but chances are you've heardthat phrase.
(14:15):
Have you ever been born again?
A lot of times, people who don'tbelieve the Bible they kind of
poke fun at are you a born againChristian?
It kind of is a laugh line.
Have you been born againChristian?
It kind of is a laugh line, youknow.
Have you been born again, youknow, and they kind of use it to
tease us and poke at us but,literally, if we're going to
understand what happened to uswhen I got saved, when I, you
(14:36):
know, got my sins forgiven, whenI got justified, another
accurate biblical way todescribe what happened to you
and I believe my favorite way isyou were born again.
Okay, born again.
I was born in 1981, in July14th.
I had a birthday where I wasphysically born.
(14:58):
But guess what?
If you're a believer, you notonly have a birth date, but you
have a salvation date, a datethat you were born again into
the family of God.
That's what Jesus is sayinghere.
Now I want to point out onething here, because the purpose
of this podcast is to correctcrappy doctrine.
Okay, and there's so muchcrappy doctrine out there.
(15:21):
Okay.
And I want to say this and thisis probably going to give me
some flat Okay, but what I'mabout to say affects people who
believe in baptismalregeneration, church of Christ,
christian church.
Countless religious leadersthat show up on my TikTok and
(15:43):
annoy the crap out of me becausethey teach you must be water
baptized to be saved.
Here is where they base part ofthat belief on.
What does Jesus say?
Verse five he says verily.
Verily, I say unto thee excepta man be born of water and of
the spirit, he cannot enter intothe kingdom of God.
And so they'll take that verseand they'll run with it.
(16:04):
See right there, it says youmust be born of water and the
spirit.
So you got to have water baptism.
Matt, you have to have waterbaptism.
I don't know if you knew that,buddy.
Matt (16:14):
I've been born of water, even before I was baptized.
Brandon (16:19):
No, I was no.
No, that's not what that guy onTikTok said.
I really was no.
No, that's not what that guy onTikTok said I really was.
That's not what they said, Idon't.
This blows my mind because thisis a classic example.
When you say and it's anotherone like Acts 2.38, they'll say
you know what do we do?
They heard the message of Peterpreaching on the day of
(16:40):
Pentecost.
They say what do we do?
Repent and be baptized.
And so they say look rightthere it says you've got to be
baptized to be saved.
But they don't count all theother times in the book of Acts
and in the New Testament whereit says that you turn to Christ,
you believe, you repent, and itleaves out baptism.
Okay, so I guess it's classiccherry-picking verses, but it's
(17:00):
not hard, guys.
I always tell our folks I'm apastor of a church, here's what
I always tell them.
Okay, when you come across abelief like that and something
that sounds because if you readthat verse it does sound like
you need to be I mean, if youjust that one verse you must be
born of water and of the Spirit,you can I can see how people
can arrive at water.
(17:21):
Baptism is necessary forsalvation.
But here's what I don'tunderstand Not reading the next
verse.
If you read the next verse, itanswers the question.
Matt (17:32):
You read the next verse.
It answers the question andplus it's like we say it's got
to be in context, has to be.
It's got to be in context ofthe period it was written Right
and the period that this wastranslated Right, which is the
1600s and the 100s.
Brandon (17:49):
You have to factor all this in.
So what does the next verse say?
It says now watch this, itclarifies it man must be born of
water and of the Spirit.
He cannot enter into thekingdom of God.
Verse 5.
Verse 6 says that which is bornof the Flesh, flesh is flesh.
That which is born of thespirit is spirit.
So what did Jesus say in versefive?
(18:10):
He said you gotta be born ofwater and the spirit.
And in verse six he saysbecause everything that's born
of the flesh is flesh andeverything that's born of the
spirit is spirit.
So verse six adds context towhat he meant in verse five.
He wasn't talking about waterbaptism in a baptistry tank or a
lake or a creek where you gotbaptized.
He is saying you must be bornof the flesh.
(18:33):
Every person that's ever livedlived in their mama's belly okay
, in amniotic fluid, in water.
And we loosely say, when awoman goes into labor, what the
water broke.
Her water broke, wow, oh, wow.
That's what Jesus is talkingabout.
He's not talking about waterbaptism, he's talking about
(18:54):
being born again of the Spirit.
So you must have a fleshlybirth date and you must be born
again spiritually.
That's what he's saying.
Yeah, okay.
So that leads me to thisquestion, because this is the
confusing part, I think, for alot of people when you were
justified, the moment you weresaved, I told you guys last week
(19:15):
I was saved in October of 1988as a seven-year-old boy.
Here's my question for you whatpart of me got saved?
I am a body, a soul, which ismy mind, my emotions and my will
and spirit.
So what part of me was saved?
(19:37):
Was I spiritually saved?
Was my soul saved?
Was my body saved?
Okay, jesus said if you want toexperience the kingdom of God,
you must be born of the Spirit.
Whatsoever is born of the fleshis flesh.
Whatsoever is born of theSpirit capital S is Spirit.
(20:02):
So the answer to that questionis the day that I received
Christ, was justified, became abeliever, got saved, was born
again however you want to say it, I was born again in my spirit.
I was spiritually reborn.
Now I'm going to say twocontroversial things here.
Your mind, your emotions andyour will was not saved.
(20:26):
The day you got saved, the dayyou were justified, the day you
were born again, your mind, youremotions and your will didn't
all change.
No, your thinking didn'tautomatically change.
I'm going to say anothercontroversial thing your body
didn't get saved, no, and itstill ain't Well, I'll go a step
(20:50):
further.
Matt (20:50):
It never gets saved, until glorification.
Brandon (20:56):
But what happens during glorification?
It's changed, so it never does.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, it gets changed Becauseit's corruptible.
It's corrupted.
This corruptible must put onincorruptible.
1 Corinthians 15.
That's great, it's corrupted.
This corruptible must put onincorruptible.
Yeah, 1 Corinthians 15.
That's great, that's great.
So we see there, right there,that Jesus says you must be born
(21:19):
again in the spirit.
Now I want to show you a versethat is often it's a great verse
, but, man, if I had a dollarfor every time that I heard this
verse used out of context.
2 Corinthians 5.17,.
I think I've heard everyrevival preacher that I've ever
heard in my life preach this,and usually it is to preach to
(21:41):
condemn and make you feel badbecause you're doing sin in your
life.
Okay, and here's what it says 2Corinthians 5.17,.
It says, therefore, if any manbe in Christ, he is a new
creature.
Old things are passed away,behold, all things are become
(22:02):
new.
Great verse, okay, so if I'm inChrist, I'm a new creature or
new creation.
Old things are passed away,behold, all things are become
new.
So I've heard that applied topeople who are still thinking
(22:25):
wrong, using words that arewrong, claiming that they're
saved, but their actions, theystill have slip-ups and parts of
their life that don't look likea Christian should.
And so preachers like me okay,get upset at that and take that
verse and say if you're part ofChrist, you're a new creation.
(22:47):
Old things have passed away.
So if the old things didn'tpass away, if your mouth didn't
change automatically, if yourlife didn't change automatically
, if your thought processesdidn't change automatically, if
you still slip up and do thewrong thing, if you're still
smoking, drinking, if you do anyof that stuff, you didn't
really get saved.
I want to tell you, and we'lltake the flag for it, that's not
(23:10):
what that verse means.
Now let me prove it to you yourspirit got saved.
What I'm presenting to youtoday is that your spirit got
saved, that your soul didn't,your mind didn't, your emotions
didn't, your will didn't,neither did your flesh.
That's what I'm saying, that'swhat I'm presenting to you, and
I'll prove it to you.
Okay, if you were ugly beforeyou got saved, you're still ugly
(23:38):
.
Do you know that?
Yeah, if you're fat before yougot saved, guess what?
You're still fat.
Yeah, well, brennan, that'ssilly.
No, if you're going to quotethat verse and say that
everything changes at the momentof salvation, all things are
become new, then everything hasto be perfect, because when
(23:59):
Jesus changed you, he made youperfect so he wouldn't leave you
overweight and ugly and allthis kind of stuff.
No, he wouldn't do it.
All things have become new.
That means that you have tothink all the right thoughts
from the moment of justificationon, because old things are gone
.
You can't think the old wayanymore.
If you have bad thoughts, youweren't saved.
If you do the wrong thing, everyou weren't saved.
(24:22):
Now I've heard preachers preachthat, but I'm going to cut them
some slack because I don'tthink you really believe that
when it comes right down to it.
Matt (24:32):
Okay, because they still believe that you can mess up.
I guarantee that they don'tbelieve it, because any sin
would disqualify you at thatpoint I mean anything from a
wrong thought.
Brandon (24:47):
Old things are passed away.
Behold, all things are new.
Matt.
Matt (24:50):
Even if you didn't act on it.
Jesus tells us in the Bible ifyou thought it, you're guilty of
it.
Brandon (24:59):
You shouldn't commit adultery.
You shouldn't even look at awoman to lust after her, or
you've committed adulteryalready, with her in your heart.
You shouldn't hate your brother.
I mean all that Sermon on theMount stuff, adultery already
with her in your heart.
Yes, you shouldn't hate yourbrother, right?
Yeah, I mean all that Sermon onthe Mount stuff.
Okay, let's apply it.
Let me ask you this Ifeverything changed and what I'm
presenting to you is that youwere born again in your spirit,
(25:22):
but you are going to be saved inyour mind that's the
sanctification process and youwill be saved in your body,
which is the glorificationprocess.
Okay, it has to be that way.
What Jesus said, you must beborn of the spirit.
So the old things passed awayis not talking about anything at
the moment.
Instantaneously and completely,it's talking about.
(25:43):
The only thing it can betalking about is my spiritual
man.
Otherwise, chapters like thisright here wouldn't make sense.
Romans 7.
Listen to the apostle Paul.
He says now, if I do that, Iwould not.
It is no more I that do it, butsin that dwelleth in me.
I find, then, a law that when Iwould do good, evil is present
(26:04):
with me.
Now I don't think Paul's read 2Corinthians yet, because all
things are supposed to be brandnew, paul, you're not supposed
to have evil present with you.
But he goes on.
He says for I delight in thelaw of God after the inward man,
but I see another law in mymembers, whoa, in my members, my
body Warring against the law ofmy mind verse 23, and bringing
(26:29):
me into captivity to the law ofsin.
Hold on, this is a Christian.
This is not only a Christian,this is the greatest Christian
probably ever to live, theApostle Paul.
And he's saying that he sees alaw in his members, in his body,
warring against his mind andbringing him into captivity to
the law of sin, which is in mymembers.
In verse 24, he cries out.
(26:49):
He says, oh wretched man, thatI am Not, I was, I am.
Who shall deliver me from thebody of this death?
I thank God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So then, with the mind, Imyself serve the law of God, but
with the flesh the law of sin.
So he says in my mind, I servethe law of God.
(27:11):
So Paul had experienced thesanctification of renewing his
mind, but his flesh didn'talways follow along with what he
wanted to do, and he says thatearlier in the chapter.
For the will is present with me, but how to perform?
So what?
Matt (27:23):
does that mean he compares it to dragging along a dead
body?
That's how it feels, as aChristian sometimes.
Yeah, I mean, you've got a bodythat wants to sin.
It's going to want to sin.
Brandon (27:37):
And he says when I would do good, evil is present
with me.
So the more you want to do good, the more your body rebels and
wants to do bad.
Yeah, rebels and wants to dobad, yeah.
So somebody out there right nowis saying I'm in an internal
(28:00):
struggle.
I'm a Christian, I'm a believer, but I don't feel saved because
my body is rebelling against me.
Yeah, I want to say somethingto you and I've said this to
many people, I've said this tomany crowds and I want you to
find some healing in this.
Okay, the fact that you'rehaving that internal struggle of
I don't know if I'm savedbecause my flesh does this and I
want to do right but I keepmessing up.
(28:21):
But I'm a Christian, I know Igot saved, I know I trusted
Christ and you're in thatinternal struggle.
Let me tell you something thatis not evidence that you're not
saved.
To me, that's great evidencethat you are saved, because
unsaved people don't doubt theirsalvation.
Do you understand that Unsavedpeople say, well, I don't feel
(28:41):
saved.
They don't know what it's liketo be saved.
They don't sit there and undoand doubt what they settled in
faith.
You settled it in faith and youknow what it's like to taste
and see that God is good andyour body rebels on you and you
know that your body is not inline with God.
And so what do you do?
You feel that friction, thatstruggle that Paul's talking
about in Romans 7.
(29:02):
Man, that's great evidence thatyou are saved.
Take comfort in that, Okay.
Take comfort in that, okay.
It doesn't excuse your bodyrebelling against God.
But I want you to understandthe dynamic of what's going on.
You are a born-again believer.
You are saved.
You are born again.
You're secure in that salvation.
You've got to sanctify yourmind and get your mind to change
(29:27):
your body's actions, your mindand get your mind to change your
body's actions, okay, but itdoesn't change that you were
spiritually reborn, becauseRomans seven wouldn't make sense
If second Corinthians five, 17was talking about your flesh and
your and all your mind savedall at once.
It's not what it talks about,okay, um, scriptures like um
Hebrews chapter five.
Let's look at that one, hebrewschapter five.
(29:50):
It brings up a topic that, man,we don't really.
People always say Christiansproduce fruit, right.
Yeah, can I tell you something,matt?
You're a gardener, right.
You and your wife grow a biggarden every year, and you guys
(30:10):
can a lot, is that right?
Yep, let me tell you something,matt.
You're a gardener, right,mm-hmm?
You and your wife grow a biggarden every year, and you guys
can a lot, is that right?
Yep, let me ask you somethingwhen do you plant?
When are you going to startplanting your garden?
It's already started.
What do you got?
Matt (30:19):
in Lettuce cabbage a few things, cold weather stuff.
Brandon (30:25):
How much have you eaten off that garden yet?
Matt (30:28):
nothing.
Well, I've ate.
Brandon (30:29):
I've ate some asparagus okay, no cabbage, though no
lettuce no, no cabbage orlettuce.
Matt (30:34):
When are you going to plant your beans and your corn?
Brandon (30:37):
um, probably the end of the month.
So the end of this month, and Iimagine you so, uh, april, end
of the end of this month is what?
Matt (30:46):
first of the week yeah, yeah, it's another week or so.
Brandon (30:49):
So you'll probably have corn and beans probably what by
Tuesday.
Matt (30:55):
Tuesday in July.
Brandon (30:57):
How long does it take to grow corn and beans?
Matt?
60 to 90 days minimum 60 to 90days for corn and beans.
Hold on.
Matt (31:05):
Sometimes 120.
Brandon (31:06):
So you mean you put a seed in ground and you have to
take 60, 90, 120 days to get thefruit of that seed?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, it takes time to getfruit.
Matt (31:18):
It always takes time.
Brandon (31:19):
I thought, fruit just happens.
Matt (31:24):
Not here Huh.
Brandon (31:27):
Hmm, some of you preachers out there need to
realize that fruit doesn't justhappen.
Yeah, fruit doesn't just happen.
Stop expecting people that walkinto church that have never
heard.
I pastor a very diverse church.
I've got people who were raisedBaptist, lutheran, catholic,
(31:49):
agnostic, pentecostal inwitchcraft.
I've got the gamut.
Stop expecting people to walkin trust Christ.
And look how you look,hopefully after you've been
saved since 1988.
Because I'm going to tell youthis, I know me and I've been
(32:12):
saved a long time, but sometimesI think that some of these
young Christians are moving at afaster pace than I am.
Fruit takes a minute to grow.
Salvation and your relationshipwith the Lord and your walk
with the Lord is compared tofruit, and you know what else is
compared to being a baby andgrowing to maturity.
(32:33):
Look at this Hebrews, chapter 5, it says verse 11,.
It says of whom we have manythings to say and are hard to be
uttered.
Seeing, you're dull of hearing,for when, for the time, you
ought to be teachers, you haveneed that one.
Teach you again which be thefirst principles of the oracles
of God and are become such ashave need of milk and not of
(32:54):
strong meat.
So the writer of Hebrews here,whoever you believe it is is
going through and he's sayingyou guys are dull of hearing.
You're supposed to be a teachernow, but I'm having to come
back and instruct you againbecause you don't have it
figured out.
You become as such as have needof milk and not of strong meat.
Verse 13 says for everyone thatuseth milk is unskillful in the
(33:15):
word of righteousness, for heis a babe or baby, okay, but
strong meat belongeth to themthat are of full age, even those
who, by reason of use, havetheir senses exercised to
discern both good and evil.
And chapter six goes on and saystherefore, leaving the
principles of the doctrine ofChrist, let us go on unto
perfection.
What does that mean?
It means grow up, okay.
(33:37):
So what happens?
Let's put this in context,because we're discussing last
week and this week what happensat salvation.
We discussed the three tensesthe past, present and future
tense justification,sanctification, glorification.
So I have been saved, I ambeing saved and I will be saved.
I was saved from the penalty ofsin at justification.
At sanctification, I'm beingdelivered from the power of sin
(33:59):
over my life and justification.
At sanctification, I'm beingdelivered from the power of sin
over my life.
And then at glorification, I'mgoing to be delivered from the
very presence of sin.
Okay, but when I was justified,guess what I was?
I was a baby.
I was a seed in Matt's garden,and it's going to take some time
all right, with consistent soil, weather, water to grow fruit.
Stop expecting some of youmature Christians out there
(34:21):
Christians to be where you're atwhen you've been saved for a
decade or two decades, and youexpect them to be where you're
at after two months.
Okay, we have to allow peopletime to grow.
Paul and the writers in the NewTestament, the writer of Hebrews
, was very patient with peopleand let them grow.
But you know what he also did,though?
(34:42):
When they weren't growing fastenough, he wrote them the writer
of Hebrews in Hebrews 5, and hegave them a swift kick in the
pants and said, hey, you'resupposed to be a teacher now and
I'm having to come back andteach you again.
It shouldn't be like that.
He was okay with hurrying themalong when they were stagnating
on the vine, if you will, andnot producing the fruit that
they should when they should,but he was patient.
(35:02):
At the beginning they were ababy.
There were things that hedidn't even teach them yet
because he couldn't handle it,because he couldn't handle the
meat yet.
Okay, so this whole salvationthing is a process that you grow
to maturity.
So what happened when I gotsaved?
My spirit got saved, my mind isbeing saved, it's being changed
and renovated.
(35:22):
Romans, chapter 12, verse 2,conform, don't conform to the
world, but be transformed.
That means renovate by therenewing or the renovating of
your mind, your thoughts, that'syour soul, your mind, emotions
will Okay, but also my flesh isbeing.
It will be saved, all right.
So here's kind of how I explainit to some people sometimes Okay
(35:43):
, we have a swimming pool athome.
Okay, at that swimming pool wehave a over by the, where the
guts of the pool are, and thepumps and all that kind of stuff
.
We have a valve that you turn,okay, and there's a main drain
in the bottom of the pool andthen there's the skimmer over
(36:03):
here, so I can divert the flowof the water going through the
system to the main drain or tothe valve, or I can keep it
right in the center and kind ofkeep suction on both.
Okay, that's how it is in yourChristian life.
When you're born again, you'reborn again in the spirit.
Okay, over here, here's aspirit and your body is in
rebellion.
Right, your body is inrebellion against God.
(36:26):
So the spirit is pulling thisway and the body's pulling this
way.
It's what Paul talks about inRomans 7.
So who determines who wins?
Okay, here's what I want you tounderstand.
The battle is won in your mind,in your thinking.
It's what you think, it's whatyou dwell on, here's what I want
you to understand.
The battle is won in your mind,in your thinking.
It's what you think, it's whatyou dwell on, it's what you
meditate on, it's what you tellyourself.
(36:46):
Okay, so your soul, your mind,emotions and will turn the valve
either toward the spirit ortoward your flesh.
Okay, if you want to get boggeddown and let your flesh win,
okay, the valve is turned towardyour flesh.
If you want to get bogged downand let your flesh win, the
valve is turned toward yourflesh and you don't listen to
the spirit.
But if you want the spirit towin, you turn that valve and you
(37:09):
allow the spirit to flowthrough, change your thinking
and it will ultimately come outyour body in good ways, but it
can also in bad ways.
So the valve is the mind.
Does that make sense?
It does, yeah, yeah.
So when we think about this alittle bit further, I want to
show you another scripturebecause it's one of the most
(37:31):
just eye-opening to me, romans,chapter number six.
Just eye-opening to me, romans,chapter number six.
I love this.
And in teaching what happens toyou when you trust Christ, this
is just eye-opening to me.
It helps me so much.
I want to look at several verses.
This is talking about whathappened to you and, spoiler
(37:52):
alert the word baptism comes upagain.
Okay, so here's what it says.
It says what shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin?
That grace may abound, godforbid.
How shall we that are dead tosin live any longer therein?
Notice that it says in versetwo that you are dead to sin.
Okay.
Then it says in verse threeknow you not that so many of us
(38:14):
as were baptized into JesusChrist were baptized into his
death?
Okay, so when I trusted Christ,if you read the full context of
this in Romans four and five,leading up to chapter six, you
see that when we, by faith, putour faith in Christ, we are
baptized into Christ.
(38:37):
Death, okay.
So everybody's familiar.
We talked about it last week.
The gospel is the death and theburial, the resurrection of
Jesus.
So Jesus was alive, he died, hewas buried, then he rose again.
Okay, this is why, when a newbeliever in the New Testament,
(38:57):
and all the way to this day whenyou accept Christ, you are to
be baptized by immersion, andall the way to this day when you
accept Christ, you are to bebaptized by immersion or all the
way under the water.
It's what the Bible teaches andthis is what many churches and
churches that I think rightlydivide scripture do.
They don't sprinkle or pourwater on the head, they immerse.
Why?
Because baptism is a symbol, anacting out of what happened to
(39:20):
you when you trusted Christ.
You were alive, but then youdied into Christ and you were
raised.
Just like Jesus died and wasraised, you died into him,
baptized into him.
Don't always associate baptismwith water.
The word means immerse, okay,fully whelm is what it means in
(39:44):
the Greek, to fully overwhelm orfully surround, fully whelm.
So when you accepted Christ,you were baptized into Christ.
You were fully whelmed, fullyimmersed into Christ.
Okay, you were buried with him.
And the Bible says in Romans 6that you are not alive any
longer.
You're dead to sin.
(40:04):
You're baptized into Jesusverse 3,.
And you're baptized into hisdeath.
Now watch this verse 4.
Therefore, we are buried withhim by baptism into death.
That like as Christ was raisedup from the dead by the glory of
the Father.
Even so, we also should walk innewness of life.
So we died into Christ.
(40:27):
We were buried with him.
Our sin is dead.
We are dead to sin.
But now what are we?
We're a new creation in thespirit and now we can walk in
newness of life.
I hope that makes sense to you.
So after you got saved and yougot baptized, when you went down
(40:47):
in that water and came up,after the belief was already in
your heart, you were already aChristian.
Getting wet in the tank didn'tmake you saved or not saved it.
just what did it do?
It pictured what happened toyou when you did trust Christ.
You were buried into him andyou were raised to walk in a new
way of life.
Matt (41:07):
And you have to look at the moment of your salvation.
Your flesh, your body did notdie Right, otherwise we wouldn't
be here.
Brandon (41:20):
But the Bible says, when we're about to see it, that
your old man did and that'swhat we're going to see.
So who's dead and in the graveand who's alive?
Matt (41:30):
Verse 5 that leads you to which piece of you that this?
Brandon (41:38):
Is talking about.
Matt (41:39):
Section is talking about.
Brandon (41:40):
Your spirit, your soul, your body, yep, okay.
So verse five says for if wehave been planted together in
the likeness of his death, weshall be also in the likeness of
his resurrection.
So the word planted in versefive and the word baptism in
verse four are used as synonyms.
One is a picture of baptism,but one is planted.
(42:02):
You're planted like a body'sput into a tomb.
You're planted with him in thelikeness of his death.
We shall be also in thelikeness of his resurrection.
Look at this verse six knowingthis, that our old man is
crucified with him, that thebody of sin might be destroyed,
that the body of sin might bedestroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin, for hethat is dead is freed from sin.
(42:26):
Now here's a concept that a lotof people don't understand.
Okay, and this is where we gooff the rails with what happened
to us at salvation.
And here's what I want to bereal clear on the old you, the
sinful you all of.
When I say the old you, I'mtalking about the you prior to
(42:47):
belief in Christ, prior to youtrusting Christ.
Okay, the old you when youtrusted Christ, dies into Christ
and a new you is raised, aspiritual you.
You're born again in the spiritraised to walk in newness of
life.
The old you, verse number six,says the old man is crucified
(43:10):
with him.
That the body of sin might bedestroyed, that henceforth you
should not serve sin, for hethat is dead is freed from sin.
You died the day that youtrusted Christ.
The old you, the sinful you Letme say this, and this is
controversial and I know it theyou that had a sinful record
(43:30):
died.
That sinful record is gonebecause that man that committed
those sins is gone.
You are raised, a new spiritualperson that has no sin record.
That's why you are justified.
Remember what justified means.
Just as if you'd never sinned.
You have a clean, clear record,just like the back of that
(43:51):
sheet is clean and clear, withno writing on it.
You used to have a record thathad tons of writing on it, but
now you've been baptized intoChrist, you've been planted with
him.
The old you is dead.
Now you have nothing but ablank slate.
You say, brandon, I don'tbelieve that.
Well, the Bible says thatyou're dead to sin.
Okay, now he goes on and he saysthis Now, if we'd be dead with
(44:14):
Christ, we believe that we shallalso live with him, knowing
that Christ, being raised fromthe dead, dieth no more.
Death hath no more dominionover him, for in that he died,
he died unto sin once, but inthat he liveth, he liveth unto
God.
Likewise I love this part.
(44:35):
Don Don't miss this.
Likewise, reckon ye yourselvesto be dead, indeed, unto sin,
but alive unto God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So here's what he's saying.
He said, jesus, you know howmany times Jesus died Once.
You know how many times he wasburied Once?
How many times did he rise fromthe dead?
Once?
(44:56):
Now, this is going to becontroversial.
Once Now, this is going to becontroversial.
How many times can you beburied into Christ and raised as
a new person?
One time Salvation, when youunderstand the rebirth in the
spirit?
I know it's a hot button topicthe once saved, always saved
argument.
We're going to address it.
But once you are born again,you can never be unborn again
(45:21):
Because by the very nature ofbeing born again, it's a
one-time event.
And that's what Jesus said whenhe was died.
He died once and he died nomore for sin.
He was buried once and he wasraised once.
So verse 11 says likewise or inthe way that that was in the way
that Jesus was reckon, ye, alsoyourselves, or think that way
(45:45):
for yourselves, that you aredead, indeed, unto sin, but
alive unto God, through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So he tells us here that we areto see ourself, our old man, as
gone dead done, are to seeourself, our old man, as gone
dead done, and the you that'sbefore you right now, matt, I'm
born again in the spirit.
Now, what got saved, guys?
(46:07):
My spirit got saved.
My mind is getting renovated,but it's not there yet.
My body's not there yet, but onthe inside of me is a new man,
the born-again man, theborn-again spiritual man.
The born-again spiritual man isthere on the inside of me, okay
, and it doesn't mean that myflesh can sin.
(46:29):
So that brings up a goodquestion, right?
Why do we sin outwardly withour body, even as Christians,
when we have a new man on theinside?
Yeah, body, even as Christians,when we have a new man on the
inside.
And the best answer that I cancome up with on that is that the
(46:50):
old man, the old man, trainedmy brain and my flesh.
Yeah, and they're under sin.
They're under the tutelage ofsin.
They're under the tutelage ofsin, and even though the old man
is dead, I still think of thethings that he taught me to
think.
Okay.
Matt (47:07):
Go ahead and you look at it this way.
So, from the original sin, whatwas the curse of that sin?
Corruption, and our bodies aregoing to die, right, okay, when
you get saved, does this bodyever pass away?
That you're in?
(47:28):
Right, so it doesn't was reborn.
If those verses were talkingabout the flesh being renewed
and reborn, we would not dieafter salvation, but by the very
(47:51):
fact that we do still die aftersalvation.
Brandon (47:55):
Those verses aren't talking about the flesh.
They're not talking about theflesh.
They can't be.
They can't be, Otherwise theywould be wrong, absolutely.
Matt (48:02):
They're not talking about a physical baptism of this
physical body, right, otherwisethey would be wrong, because
that condemnation of sin, theoriginal sin that we inherited,
is still on us, absolutely, evenafter salvation.
Absolutely so we are— On on us,absolutely, absolutely, even
after salvation.
Absolutely so we are On ourflesh.
Brandon (48:23):
I should say we are brand new creation in Christ,
born again in the spirit, beingsanctified or being saved in our
soul, our mind, emotions andwill, and bringing into
subjection our body.
But one day our body will beglorified.
Now I wanna show you, if youflip back a page or two in
(48:44):
Romans.
This is so.
We gotta start thinking thisway.
Remember he said in versenumber 11 of chapter six
likewise reckon ye yourselves tobe dead, indeed into sin, but
alive unto God through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So what Paul's telling us inthe book of Romans is you need
to start thinking this way.
You need to realize that stopsaying I'm a sinner because you
(49:09):
aren't a sinner.
The old you was a sinner, buthe is dead.
Start telling yourself that youare a son of God, that you have
been born again, that sindoesn't have power over you,
that, hey, flesh, you don't getto boss me around because you're
not my boss anymore.
Sin's not my boss anymore.
I am raised to walk in newnessof life.
(49:32):
That's what he says in verse 11, that you need to start
reckoning or thinking like.
But in Romans, chapter four,there's a quote from David, and
I just want you to startthinking like this you are a new
creation, remember, with aclean record.
Clean record, no sin on yourrecord.
(49:52):
Why?
Because the old guy that hadthe sin and the old lady that
had the sin is dead and you'reraised to walk in newness of
life.
That's why you are not a sinneranymore.
If you've been savedtechnically, scripturally
teaching you are not a sinneranymore Doesn't mean that your
flesh cannot sin.
But listen to me, your flesh isnot you anymore, your flesh
(50:15):
just houses you.
This right here is not me.
The real me is my spiritual manwho's been reborn.
The old Brandon Matheson, priorto salvation, prior to
justification, is dead, alongwith the sin record that he had.
Now look at this, because ifthat doesn't, I know some of you
(50:35):
this is gonna be tough pill toswallow because you hadn't been
taught this.
But I want you to just let itkind of sit and soak in your
brain, meditate on it, pray onit.
Don't take my word for it.
Get in the scriptures and readit.
Romans, chapter four quotesDavid and it says this in verse
five but to him that worketh notbut believeth on him that
justifieth the ungodly, hisfaith is counted for
(50:56):
righteousness.
So you access the grace of Godthrough faith.
By grace, through faith, you'resaved.
Verse six says even as Davidalso describeth the blessedness
of the man unto whom Godimputeth righteousness without
works.
Did you know that when Godgives you salvation and you
don't work for it, you are ablessed man?
That's what David said.
Verse 7 says, saying blessed arethey whose iniquities are
(51:20):
forgiven and whose sins arecovered.
Aren't you glad that youriniquities are forgiven when
you're in Christ, your sinscovered?
But, and whose sins are covered?
Aren't you glad that youriniquities are forgiven when
you're in Christ?
Your sin's covered?
Yeah, but watch this.
Here is a little known benefitof salvation.
Verse 8 says blessed is the manto whom the Lord will not
impute sin.
The word impute there is aGreek word.
(51:40):
It's an accounting term.
So if you have an account rightthat gets charges charged to it
.
Let's say you got a credit card, you got an account tied to
that credit card and every timeyou swipe that card, what
happens?
A charge gets charged to youraccount.
Well, god says if you have beenforgiven, not by working for it,
(52:04):
but by God giving yourighteousness, your iniquities
are forgiven, your sins are goneand God doesn't charge sin,
charge sin, impute sin to youanymore.
So people say well, does Godthe moment you get saved, does
God forgive you of all of yoursin, past, present and future?
(52:25):
And my answer to that,biblically speaking and I know
some of you will be like what?
From the moment you trustChrist, you are not a sinner
anymore and God no longerimputes sin to you.
Okay, your sin is gone.
All of your past sin at thatmoment is gone and no sin is
ever charged to you again.
(52:46):
He said, brandon, that doesn'tsound right.
That's the grace of God andthat's what the Bible clearly
says.
We're just dabbling in a fewverses of this and we're digging
deep in Romans 4 and 5 and 6.
But the Bible makes this veryclear that when you receive
Christ, you're born again in theSpirit and no sin is imputed to
(53:07):
you any longer.
Matt (53:08):
And if you look at it from Jewish law, sacrificial law.
It has to be that way, becausewhen did Christ die?
Roughly 2,000 years ago, okay,I had not committed a single sin
(53:32):
2,000 years ago, right.
So everything was in the future.
Everything was in the future,right.
And then you take into contextthat God exists outside of time.
Mm-hmm, okay, exist outside oftime.
Okay, so everything is rightnow for God, right, you know
(53:53):
that's right, yep, so yeah, well, I, this is, this is.
Brandon (54:01):
I know it's a lot to take in, it's like it's a lot,
but you, you, you must be bornagain.
Jesus says of the Spirit, okay,and the moment that you trust
Christ and are justified, itdoesn't mean that your flesh got
saved, it doesn't mean that youautomatically your mind, you
(54:22):
just have no bad thoughtsanymore.
No, there's a process calledsanctification, where you grow
and you begin to produce fruit.
And, yes, you will producefruit.
When the Spirit of God is onthe inside of you, you will.
Okay, we're not arguing that,but what we're saying is that
there is allowed a time forgrowth.
(54:42):
Your spirit was reborn, you areno longer a sinner.
Okay, and I'm going to just setup.
Next time that we come back in,we're going to talk about the
divine nature that we have,because when I trusted Christ, I
was born again as a spiritualperson and now I have a whole
(55:03):
new nature on the inside of methat God says is right there for
the taking, and all I've got todo is unleash it and let it out
and run wild and take overright.
And he tells us how to do thisand we're going to show you in 2
Peter, how he says, to releasethe divine nature in our life,
(55:25):
because you're born again of thespirit.
I got this old brain though,this old soul that has stinking
bad thinking, and I've got torenovate it and conform it to
God's way.
And I got this body that I'mtrying to bring into subjection.
But I am not my body and I amnot.
I am that spiritual man.
(55:47):
Okay, I am that spiritual manthat was reborn.
Matt (55:51):
The old man was baptized into Jesus' death and the new
man was raised to walk innewness of life and it's a
process and it's like we've gotto understand that it is that
process and we've got and overand over in the Bible.
It says it's a process and it'snot just the.
Brandon (56:16):
Romans verse.
It's not a process just toclarify, to be justified, that
takes faith in a moment of time,faith in a moment's notice.
Matt (56:25):
It's the salvation that, the worksbased salvation that
everyone attaches to it.
Right, right, you've got torepent.
You've got to have the fruitYou've got to.
If there's no fruit, youweren't saved.
Right, you know what's yourbuddy that you like the videos,
doc, he says the fruit police,yeah.
Brandon (56:44):
There are the fruit.
Police are out, yep.
Matt (56:47):
And you know, it's a few pastors that I listen to.
Occasionally they're like ohyou know, I don't want to sin, I
don't this and that and theother, and as soon as you get
saved, you shouldn't be that way, yeah, that way, and it's just
not.
You know there's verses inHebrews that literally goes
(57:09):
through the same thing fromRomans that you need milk, not
solid food.
Anyone lives on milk.
Being still an infant is notacquainted with the teachings
about righteousness.
Brandon (57:22):
Right, right.
Well, that's what we're goingto come down to is that the key
is understanding the Word of God, and this is the Bible Says
podcast.
And when we understand what theBible says about who we are in
Christ, now that I'm saved andthat I'm not, no sin is imputed
to me.
I'm not a sinner anymore.
I am to think differently thanit unleashes the power for me to
(57:46):
let the divine nature take overand produce the fruit of the
Spirit in my life.
Matt (57:51):
And that's what we're going to get into.
And it literally says you're ababy, so you're saved, right.
And you don't understandrighteousness yet, right?
So how are you supposed to bechanged?
That's right.
How are you supposed to haverepented from all those things
when it literally says in theBible that you're still a baby,
(58:14):
you're not ready for meat orsteak, because you don't
understand?
Brandon (58:19):
righteousness yet.
So in coming episodes we'regoing to look at that.
We'll continue to look at whathappens at the moment of
salvation, what happens aftersalvation, and then we're going
to look at because there's someof you out there that are
starting to listen to this forthe first time and you're not a
born again believer yet and wewant to show you from the Bible
not what I say or Matt says,what my church says, or we don't
(58:42):
want you to listen to us andtake our word for it.
We want the Bible to speak, butwe want to tell you how that
you do get a relationship withChrist.
We've let you.
You've seen tidbits of it, butwe're going to focus on it.
It comes through by the grace ofGod that God loves you and
wants you to be saved and thatwhen you put your faith in Jesus
and the finished work of thecross, the death, burial and
(59:08):
resurrection to save you, thatyou're a sinner.
When you trust only him, youare born again in the spirit.
And then begins this process ofsanctification where he cleans
you up.
Okay, you do not catch fishthat are already cleaned.
You catch fish and then youhave to clean them.
Okay, wouldn't that be Right.
Yeah, so there's a processthere, and that process is
(59:29):
sanctification, but it beginswith justification, the moment
that you believe.
So we are going to pick upthere in some of these future
episodes and we're so excitedthat you guys are walking along
on this journey with us in theBible Says podcast, and we will
see you next time.
And until then, I'm BrandonMatheson and this is Matt Hunter
.
Matt Hunter, yeah, we'll seeyou later.
Bye, guys, matt, have a goodnight.
(59:49):
Buddy, you too.
The Bible says.
The Bible says podcast.
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