February 18, 2025 • 34 mins
Ever wondered how the ancient texts of Ezekiel could inspire your modern leadership journey? We kick off this episode with the lighthearted tale of Dr. Posey's Valentine's Day debacle, where he naively tried to combine his wife Diana's birthday with the holiday—an amusing lesson in love and planning! Broadcasting for the first time from separate studios, Dr. Posey shares his unique full-circle moment, speaking from First Methodist Church in Waco, a stone’s throw from his Baylor college days.
Join us as we unpack the rich tapestry of leadership lessons nestled within the Book of Ezekiel, focusing on Chapter 37’s iconic Valley of Dry Bones. Delving into Ezekiel’s world, a prophet exiled in Babylon, we uncover the profound messages of hope and revival he brought to Israel. With the challenges of leadership in mind, from budget woes to strategic quandaries, we reflect on how Ezekiel’s courage and resilience can empower you to confidently face difficult decisions and inspire your team.
Lastly, we discuss the essence of "walking the talk" in leadership, drawing parallels with Ezekiel’s unwavering integrity and presence. Through humor, including some classic dad jokes, we highlight how maintaining positivity can be a beacon in trying times. By weaving in the prophetic insights of Ezekiel, we explore how leaders can embody trust and hope, ensuring their teams remain engaged and inspired, no matter the challenges ahead.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome, welcome, welcome to another exciting
episode of the BiblicalLeadership Show.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hey Tim, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How we doing.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I'm doing fantastic.
This is a first for our podcast, isn't it?
I mean it really is.
This is a first for our podcast, isn't it?
I mean it really is.
This is a first.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You know you're down hanging out in Waco and usually
we're in studio together.
So I've been in the studioscrambling trying to hook up all
this fancy equipment and revampit so I could get a hold of you
down in Waco.
You're not that far away, butyou're far enough that you're
not in the studio today.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I'm in a studio down here at First Methodist
Church in Waco, and so we've gotthat going on today First time
we've ever done it in separatestudios.
And also we've got new softwarerecording software.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I think we'll improve the quality of our podcast, so
this is a first.
For two reasons that's veryexciting.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, it is Very exciting.
So how you been?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You know I'm gone from the house from Saturday to
Thursday now, so I'm just homefor about 48 hours a week you
are.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You've been on this vacation.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, it's vacation, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You've celebrated Valentine's Day with your
beautiful bride.
You celebrated her birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, her birthday and Valentine's Day.
You're just kicking all along.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean you've got it all going down, so it's exciting
.
So I have to check to see whatwe've got coming up in March.
We're pushing on the Marchcalendar.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's right.
But here's the thing I learneda long time ago because I made a
bad mistake.
Since Diana's birthday is soclose to Valentine's Day, I
originally thought that I couldjust kind of put them together
and celebrate one time, not uh,no, no, I made that my wife
Christmas and, uh, you know, mywhole family's December.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So it's yes, no, you've got to celebrate each day
in the summer.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So yeah, you can't like postpone the birthday
celebration or Valentine's?
No, no, don't even, don't eventhink about it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, that's really what I do.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I did it one time.
That was not a good plan.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I worked the entire year just to pay for December.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
My goal is to get ahead by the time December comes
, so I can buy all thesepresents.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, exactly right.
But yeah exciting, but you know, Valentine's Day last week, and
so I just heard that.
I heard about this and so justwanted to share this with our
listeners.
What did the French chef givehis wife for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
What did the French wife give French French?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
French chef.
What did the French chef givehis wife for Valentine's day?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I do not know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He gave her a hug and a quiche.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
One thing I have not done and I was playing with it,
trying to get it done when ourpre-show you know recordings is
trying to get all our buttons up.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh good, the buttons are not working.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I had it down in studio and I've got a new
control panel here and I stilldon't have man.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
We've got so many new things.
This is like a new chapter.
Well, we've been doing thispodcast about 18 months now, so
we're just coming on all kindsof new things for us.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, this is all I'll be taking on the road.
Soon I'll be hanging out inWaco doing this recording studio
down in Waco.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You can come anytime.
It would be so much fun.
That's so much fun.
This is an awesome church,First Methodist.
It's an honor to be here.
I was at this church in collegefor the four years I was down
here at Baylor and part of mysenior year I was on staff as
the college director, and so tobe asked to come back in the
(04:29):
interim between the pastor wholeft to work with the bishop and
the new pastor is coming in inMay, for me to be down here and
to be the interim senior pastoris just like a full circle.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Did any of the people recognize you?
They know you from the past.
Do you have any attendees?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
In fact, there was a few, there was a few, and that's
been a few years ago, and sothere's not too many still here,
because that was back in the70s and so it's been a long time
.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's been a long time .
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's been a long time , but a few of them do, and so
it's good to reconnect with thisamazing congregation and just
doing the job that's awesome,awesome.
Yeah, get to preach every weekuntil the end of April, that's
just fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, enjoy it, it'll be good, it'll be really good.
We like to speak and it's funwhen we can get in front of
people and share the word andthe wisdom and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, and the amazing thing was, last Sunday no one
fell asleep.
I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
No one fell asleep.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No one fell asleep.
Well, that's impressive, mygosh, yeah that's, that's really
really good.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, that doesn't happen every day, you know no,
not, not every time.
But that's the goal make sureeveryone's awake that's the goal
.
Yes, all right things up inarlington.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Let's, uh, let's get on with the podcast for today.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We're doing all right here in Arlington.
Yeah, we're going that hot cold, hot cold thing, you know.
So you know it's just whatwe're dealing with.
So Ezekiel is what we'retalking a little bit about today
.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
We're talking about the amazing book of Ezekiel, and
yes, this is one of the mostsignificant books of the Old
Testament and I'll give a littlebackground.
But chapter 37 of the book ofEzekiel is probably one of the
(06:35):
most referred to chapters in theentire Old Testament.
It's called the Valley of DryBones.
We'll get to that in just a fewminutes.
But Ezekiel was.
Let me just give a littlebackground.
So you have, many years beforeEzekiel you had King David.
His son, solomon, became kingafter David died.
(06:57):
When Solomon died, the kingdomsplit into two kingdoms, the
north and the south.
Solomon died, the kingdom splitinto two kingdoms, the north
and the south, and each kingdomhad its own.
We won't get into why all thathappened, but it did, and each
kingdom had its own kings.
Well, in around 722 BC, theAssyrian Empire came in and
(07:23):
conquered the Northern Kingdom,and so you had the Northern
Kingdom gone and then so you hadthe Southern Kingdom.
The Assyrian Empire was justhuge, just conquered a lot of
territory in that time ofhistory, and they held on to
(07:45):
that for a couple hundred years.
And then in the 600s, right atthe end of the 600s BC, the
Babylonian Empire came intoprominence and so there was a
big fight between theBabylonians and the Assyrians,
and so the Babylonians conqueredthe city of Nineveh, which was
(08:10):
in Assyria, in 612 BC, and thenthey started moving towards
Israel, jerusalem and those kindof things.
So in 5, five well, let's justsay around 597 BC the
Babylonians came in and theywere.
(08:33):
They didn't destroy Jerusalem,but they conquered the city and
they took about 10,000 Jews toBabylon as exiles, and this man,
ezekiel, was one of those10,000 that went, and so he's
actually writing as an exile ina foreign land, and now he's
(08:56):
from a priestly family.
So one of the desires he had wasto be a priest, and so that
could happen when he was 30.
And so he's actually in exilein Babylon on his 30th birthday
and around that time, and he hasthese visions from God about
(09:18):
the future of Jerusalem, thefuture of the country, and then
so the destruction of the city,which happened in 586 BC, and
then so the book is very similarto other prophets, but the one
thing about Ezekiel is he wasactually living in Babylon.
But the one thing about Ezekielis he was actually living in
(09:38):
Babylon during that time, and sohe has a whole different
perspective than, say, jeremiahor Isaiah or some of the other
prophets that we've talked about, and when he's writing it talks
a lot about what happened andthe people, but at the very end
(10:01):
there's hope, and chapter 37 isreally the beginning of that.
He's talking about the valleyof dry bones and he sees this
vision of this valley and allthat are bones, just dry human
bones, and then God begins tobreathe on these bones and they
come to life, and so that is asymbolic representation of that.
There's going to be life againfor the people of Israel, and
(10:25):
it's just a very powerfulsymbolic chapter that talks
about what's going to happen.
And so the exiles were there for70 years.
They came back to Jerusalem.
That's a whole other storywe'll talk about in another
podcast, but because Ezekiel wasthere and witnessed that and
(10:48):
was a part of that, he has aunique perspective that I think
leads to some leadershipprinciples that we can talk
about today.
So anything you want to add tothat, tim, before we move
forward.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
No, I think you're right on.
I know the Valley of the DryBones is a huge part of this,
you know, and the way peoplelook at it.
And you know, one of thebiggest things that I got out of
this and I'll throw theleadership part of this in is,
you know Ezekiel had to deliversome tough messages and I think
that's where leaders, you know,sometimes we avoid those hard
(11:28):
conversations.
You know, those toughsituations we sort of put off,
thinking that it's going to workitself out over time, work
itself out over time, and Ithink that that's one of the
things that really appealed tome on this.
You know, listening toEzekiel's story, that he had to
bring some messages Now, a lotof the prophets do but he had
(11:50):
some tough ones to lead byexample with.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, and it wasn't that it was easy for him, but
that was the calling that Godput on his life and he didn't
back down from it.
And so I think what your firstpoint was so well taken, that if
we are a leader, sometimesleaders have to make difficult
decisions, and that could be abudget issue, that could be a
(12:17):
staffing issue, that could be abudget issue, that could be a
staffing issue, that could be arelocation issue.
There's all kinds of issuesthat could be modifying the plan
, the timeline.
There's so many tough decisionsthat leaders should be making
(12:38):
and I'm wondering if, in yourexperience, tim, with dealing
with you know, speaking toleaders, if some people leaders
don't want to do that becausethey don't want to experience
the consequence if they make abad choice, you know, and
whatever that might be, you know, here's the big thing is, and I
guess it depends on the levelof leadership, I guess where
you're at, how long you've beenin a position.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I mean, confidence comes over time, you know.
As we know, you get moreconfident the more that you've
been in a position, and that'salways a thing to do.
But a lot of times people theyput off because they're afraid
they're going to make the right,the wrong decision and or the
consequences.
Am I going to make this personmad and he or she's not going to
(13:18):
talk to me?
Or they're going to rebel orthey're going to quit?
Well, this is a good person,but I still have to have those
tough conversations and a lot oftimes leaders, like I said,
they just think it's going towork itself out, and what it is
is.
It doesn't.
It just festers and gets worseand worse and worse and then
you've got a bigger problem.
Now it's affecting multiplepeople in your department, not
(13:39):
just one.
That you could have nipped thisat the bud at the very
beginning and not have a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So yeah, and we have to be sure that leaders
understand that one of the mostimportant principles of
leadership is that you have toearn the right to be heard.
So if you are new to the leaderand you see there's a tough
decision that has to be made,you might just wait until you've
earned that right Now.
Each organization has its owntimeline as to how long that
(14:08):
takes, but I think that leads toanother leadership principle,
and that you want to know yourpeople.
You want to know how they tick,you want to know about them as
much as they're willing to share, and the more you do that, the
more trust you build with yourpeople then the more they're
willing to listen to you whenyou have to make those tough
(14:30):
decisions.
If you just come in and youdon't know your people well and
you just start being autocraticabout it and making all these
decisions, that could reallylead to more problems.
And so you have to earn theright to be heard.
And once that happens, it's alsohow you phrase what you're
saying, the tone of your voice,the compassion of your heart.
(14:54):
Are you beating around the bush?
Sometimes leaders just don'tget to the point.
They just kind of hem and hawaround the point and by the time
someone's done, they go.
What was he talking about?
(15:15):
I don't really know what he'stalking about, so it's important
to be easily understood so thatpeople know exactly what's
happening.
Yeah, that's exactly right Now.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We started out and you were talking about the
Valley of Dry Bones, right.
And you know, trusting the God'svision even when it seems
impossible.
And I think that's what I pullout of the leadership.
You know that sometimes leadersin this, you know they roll
into the thing that you knowthis isn't going to work or
(15:43):
there's no hope or we need tojust give up now.
And and I felt that that sortof where it tied me into
leadership of you know, sort ofnever losing sight of hope
because you know you wouldn'tthink that, uh, that a valley of
dry bones with a little breathwould come back to have motion
and life and anything's possible.
(16:05):
You know, anything's possible.
I always tell people that.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Well, here's the thing that's, I think, a
leadership principle for thatparticular chapter.
In 37 is that Ezekiel realizedhis own limitations.
He could not do that withouthelp.
Now, obviously, in this chapter, he's relying upon the help of
God.
But the question is do we asleaders recognize that sometimes
(16:33):
we need our team, we need otherpeople to work together to make
this happen?
And if we think that it'salways depending upon us, then
that might be part of theproblem.
And so your team?
It could be two people, you andanother person.
(16:54):
It could be a team of 10.
You know that's up to you, butsometimes we get into trouble as
leaders because we makemistakes without you know,
talking to other people, gettingsome advice and go from there.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I still get to see your, your,your pretty face on camera.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You know, oh my goodness yeah it's, it's all
right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You know, we probably won't upload it because we have
faces made for radio, probablygood, I have a face for the
platform, I actually get to seeposy, so it's almost like I'm
sitting across the table from me.
You know one of those things?
Yeah, it's almost like I'msitting across the table from
him.
You know one of those things?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it's really good, and so let's get back to
Ezekiel for just a few minutesbefore we, you know, throw in
some dad jokes, dad jokes yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Do we have dad jokes?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I have.
You know I'm not there, so Idon't have as many dad jokes as
I would normally have.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We don't have the emergency, I'm going to have to
grab the emergency dad joke outof the studio.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I did not take it down here to wake up with you
, Because I'm in the secondarystudio today.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
so I'm broadcasting out of my main, so I'll have to
grab the emergency.
Dad jokes out of the biblicalplace and our studio back there
in the back.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
So okay, so, speaking of that, what do you call a dog
that can do magic?
What do you call a dog that cando magic?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Oh my gosh, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I do not know A dog that can do magic.
What do you call it?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I don't know A labracadabrador, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Where are those?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
buttons.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I know I can let's see, I can probably put the
microphone over here somewhere.
You can just mute me.
Yeah, oh, okay.
So here's the other thing aboutleadership from Ezekiel.
He was right there in the midstof it.
He wasn't getting in and out ofthe place.
He didn't excuse himself andtell the people oh, you got to
(19:01):
do this.
No, he was right there.
Hey, you got it.
Did you hear it?
I did hear it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That's so awesome, that's really good.
But here's the thing he wasright there with them in the
other country.
He was in exile, just like them, and one of the things he felt
really led to do was toencourage the people that your
current situation is not goingto be your final situation, and
(19:30):
so I think that's a really goodthing for leaders to keep in
mind.
Is okay, is all I see in gloomand doom, or I'm going to hold
that hope, or what does thefuture look like?
And, like we said before, notto be Pollyannish but be
realistic.
But a leader has to hold thathope, and if that's difficult
(19:50):
for you, maybe you don't need tobe the leader, maybe your
organization needs anotherleader, and not everybody's cut
out to be a leader.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You know there's a lot of people that I had to.
They had to take six months ofcoaching with me and or they had
to take a step back and notbecome the leader of the
department.
And she said, really, you know,the coaching ain't going to do
anything for me.
I'm just not fit to be a leader, I've just don't make a good
leader.
And she stepped back and sheresigned the leadership position
and went back as one of thepeople in the department.
So not everybody is designedfor it.
(20:35):
Not everybody wants to be aleader.
Matter of fact.
That's a lot of what happens incompanies.
It's the person that's beenthere the longest that gets
promoted to the leader, and alot of them don't want to be
leaders and that throws yourdepartment all out of whack
because this person is not agood leader.
They just got seniority thereand man, that'll throw a company
well into a mess every once ina while.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, and sometimes people get promoted because
they're available, not becausethey're qualified, and yet you
bring in someone new or leapfrogsomeone over because you see
their leadership potential andsometimes that creates all kinds
of problems because someonedidn't get picked and they've
been there for 22 years andsomeone that's been there 15
(21:18):
years gets the promotion.
And you know it's a tough thingand you've got to just have a
lot of wisdom to choose theright, the right thing, the
right person.
But you should be training upsomeone else to be the leader in
case something happens.
It just needs to be importantto do that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So you should, you should.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
You should.
I've been in a part of in thepast.
I'm not currently now, but Iwas active in Rotary for a long
time and my father-in-law wasvery active in Rotary.
He was like perfect attendancefor like I don't even know how
many years, like 50 years orsomething.
It was amazing.
But they have such a system of,okay, we have a president, but
(22:02):
we're also training the nextpresident while we're doing it,
and so part of that and this isnot in Ezekiel, but that's part
of leadership is who's going tobe ready to be trained to take
responsibility.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
The Bible sort of talks about succession planning
in a way right.
In a way, you can interpret itthat way that all the setup of
the Bible is what house is goingto take over and what magical
chess plays God's going to maketo you know.
Align it to go the right path.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah.
And so we look in the newTestament, jesus.
He had his 12 disciples.
One of them obviously betrayedhim, but the other 11, they,
they were in training forleadership for three years.
And so the question would behow do we do that in our
organization?
How do we do that?
(22:58):
And so, when you're looking atthat leader, going back to
Ezekiel, there needs to beaccountability for leadership,
there needs to be responsibility.
And so the question is do yourleaders or do your people maybe
there's just you and three otherpeople in the organization do
they know exactly what their jobis supposed to do?
(23:20):
Is there a job description?
Do you talk with them regularly?
Do they know what they'resupposed to do?
Do they have a quota?
Do they have a timeline?
All that should be laid out onpaper.
Timeline All that should belaid out on paper.
(23:47):
When I was asked to come downhere to Waco, they outlined my
responsibilities on paper.
We all agree to that and sayyou know, this is what I'm
supposed to do on Sunday.
This is so.
There's no confusion about that, and obviously we got to keep
focused on the mission of theorganization and make sure that
people are working towards that.
So one of the things I'm doing.
We had our first full staffmeeting yesterday and I told the
(24:10):
staff hey, over the next 30days, I want to meet every one
of you and we're going to talkabout the mission, and then
we're talking about what are youdoing in your department to
work toward that mission.
I just want to know how thatworks.
I have some of their goals onpaper, but I don't have all the
strategies.
I just want to learn thestrategies.
I want to learn the timelines,just so that we can all be on
(24:32):
the same page and they mightalready be, but I'm so new that
I don't know, and so that's oneof the things that I want to do
is make sure that I'm on thepage, that they're on the same
page as me and I'm on the samepage as them.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think that's the way it is and probably the last
one we'll get into.
On, leadership is, you know,we've danced around it, but
Ezekiel lived out his messagesthrough symbolic actions and I
think that shows that leaders,they need to walk the talk right
, you know if they say something, they need to follow through
(25:09):
and do what they say they'regoing to do and be able to stand
up and don't be afraid.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think walking the talk is probably one of the—if
you had to say, okay, what arethe five top most important
characteristics of a leader, Ithink walking the talk would be
at least one of those five.
You can't have your people doone thing and you do another.
That just leaves a chaos andmistrust and lack of integrity
(25:40):
and all kinds of consequences.
And you're right, ezekiel, hewas called by God to do this.
He saw these incredible visionsand he was so faithful, even in
a very difficult situation.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So yeah, awesome, awesome.
Well, we're pushing on.
You know 25 minutes or so onour stuff.
We're a couple minutes shy, butI think we've talked a little
bit about Ezekiel, one thingthat I will talk and I want to
make sure that I have a questionfor you.
Ezekiel starts after he was inprison for five years, right,
(26:16):
and then it's broke down intotwo sections really of Ezekiel.
I mean, it's one section, butis it continuous or does it go
down?
What are some of the beginningstarts where he's in prison and
then how does it end on Ezekiel?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, he's not in prison, he's an exile.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Exile.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So he's an exile, it's different.
Okay, so he's in Babylon, he'sactually sitting by a river and
he sees this vision of God inthe temple and all those kind of
things.
So so he sees that, um, andhe's, he's, uh, can you imagine?
Here you are, you're, you'regrowing up your whole life
(27:04):
expecting, uh, to have this jobas a, as a priest.
You feel called to do that.
Your, your family's in thepriesthood.
You want to be a priest and allof a sudden, your city gets
wiped out, not necessarily wipedout physically, but the
Babylonians come in and take10,000 people.
You're one of them and you'renever going to be able to
(27:25):
realize your dream of being apriest.
And so God calls him to be adifferent type of priest in the
Babylon and to speak to thepeople.
It's more like a priest,prophet.
And so he's there sitting bythe river and he has this vision
, and so much of Ezekiel'swritings are symbolic of these
(27:48):
visions that he has from God.
And then he interprets thesevisions from God.
And then he interprets hisvisions and then, at the very
end of the book, just like mostprophets do, it ends with hope
like the people are going to getback home, we're going to have,
we're going to be back thereand God's going to restore the
(28:12):
people and so that's kind of a.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That's sort of where I was going with.
You know, it starts out withhim coming off of his exile and
it always ends with hope, and Iwas sort of going down that
setup to go.
You know, the final verse andthe name of the city, from that
time on, will be the Lord, isthere?
Yes, how do we interpret that?
That was an honest question Iwanted to ask you about right?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Okay, that's a really good question, because what
he's basically saying is thepeople prior to the Babylonians
coming in, over the couplehundred years prior to that
whole thing and the destructionof Jerusalem, the people were
worshiping other gods.
Even in the temple, even thetemple area, they were
(28:59):
worshiping other gods.
And Ezekiel's saying, hey,we're going to get back, and God
is I mean, the temple's goingto be, god's going to be back in
Israel, where he needs to be,he's going to be honored, he's
going to be elevated, he's goingto be worshiped as the one true
God.
And so he's saying, hey, thisis going to happen and God's
(29:20):
going to be in his rightfulplace at some point in the
future.
So we will not be worshipingforeign gods, we're going to be
worshiping the one true God.
So that's how it ends and it'sa pretty powerful message for
the people back then.
It's a very powerful messagefor us that, even in the
(29:42):
difficult times, there's alwayshope for a future, that your
current situation does not haveto be your final situation.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Awesome, powerful, powerful imagery and symbolic
imagery of of in the book ofEzekiel.
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So I got you Well, I think that good.
On Ezekiel, I think we sort ofchatted on that one a little bit
, that one a little bit, and I Ithought about you know the dad
jokes and and I was like I Ithought about uh, um, you know
tech jokes, because we're havingall kinds of wraparound tech
(30:21):
things today.
Why did the uh ai go to therapy?
I don't know why because it hadtoo many processing issues.
Oh gosh, okay, so last weekendlast weekend.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Last weekend, we went to a wedding.
Okay, oh yeah, it was sobeautiful.
Even the the wedding cake wasin tears there we go there you
go um what else you got for uswell, Well, you know, it's been
raining down here in Waco alittle bit this morning and you
(30:59):
know what happens when it rainscats and dogs.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Well, you have to be careful not to step in a poodle.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh, I'll give that one.
You give that to me.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I get a cheer.
I get a little cheer on thatone.
You give that to me.
Oh my gosh, I get a cheer, Iget a little cheer on that one.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, I tried to make a joke about pizza.
You know this one, don't you?
It was just too cheesy.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
That one is really cheesy.
I had to bring some of the oldones out you did.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Oh my gosh, what's the skeleton's?
You know we're talking aboutthe Valley of Dry Bones.
What's a skeleton's?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
least favorite room.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
No, it isn't Least favorite room, the skeleton's
least favorite room?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
The living room.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Oh, now I would push the other button for that.
You're just too far away.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I got total control of the buttons.
You got total control of thebuttons, you got total control
of everything.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Oh my goodness.
Well, you know this church here.
It's a large building and youknow I'm up here on the second
floor right now.
But I've learned here I've justbeen here a week but you can
(32:26):
never count on stairs.
You never can count on stairsbecause they're always coming
down with something that's a badone.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I know the stair joke .
You know, all right, you gotone, one more, and then I don't
have fine people, I do not haveanother good one?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I have a bunch of bad ones oh no no, I think we
should just leave our our.
Uh, why was?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
noah, so calm during the flood?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I should know this one.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I wrote a book on Noah he wrote it I was getting
ready to say, because he knewthe ark was a boatload of fun.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Oh, that's it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Oh yeah, Check out Dr Posey's book.
What is that one on Noah?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, 12 Gifts we Can't Afford to Lose, oh 12
Gifts.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
That's right.
Yeah, 12 gifts.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
It's on my library right behind me over here.
Yeah, it's right there withyour Star Wars helmets, my gosh
I wish you all could see thestudio.
Tim has he redid his office andhe has.
How many Star Wars helmets doyou have back there?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
One, two, three, four , five, six, seven, eight, nine,
probably about 20.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh my goodness, they're like life-size helmets.
I mean, these are just startroopers, whatever I mean.
My goodness, I look like you'reuh, you know, out there on the
spaceship or something all right.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, we'll let these fine people get out of here.
Um, dr posey, always fine.
This is uh success.
I do believe we'll let thesefine people get out of here.
Dr Posey, always fine.
This is a success.
I do believe we'll see if itrecorded and everything worked
after we get done with this but.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
If not.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
you guys will probably never know about it.
So other than that, you know DrPosey from Waco, mr Lanceford
from up here in Dallas.
We're looking forward to it.
Check us out,biblicalleadershipshowcom and Dr
Posey, take us out.
Or will you have any finalwords before you take us out
(34:23):
with anything fun?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
just make it a great day thank you, guys, have a
great one.
We'll see you next week.
Ok, bye.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to another exciting
episode of the BiblicalLeadership Show.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hey Tim, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How we doing.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I'm doing fantastic.
This is a first for our podcast, isn't it?
I mean it really is.
This is a first for our podcast, isn't it?
I mean it really is.
This is a first.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You know you're down hanging out in Waco and usually
we're in studio together.
So I've been in the studioscrambling trying to hook up all
this fancy equipment and revampit so I could get a hold of you
down in Waco.
You're not that far away, butyou're far enough that you're
not in the studio today.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I'm in a studio down here at First Methodist
Church in Waco, and so we've gotthat going on today First time
we've ever done it in separatestudios.
And also we've got new softwarerecording software.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I think we'll improve the quality of our podcast, so
this is a first.
For two reasons that's veryexciting.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, it is Very exciting.
So how you been?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You know I'm gone from the house from Saturday to
Thursday now, so I'm just homefor about 48 hours a week you
are.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You've been on this vacation.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, it's vacation, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You've celebrated Valentine's Day with your
beautiful bride.
You celebrated her birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, her birthday and Valentine's Day.
You're just kicking all along.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean you've got it all going down, so it's exciting
.
So I have to check to see whatwe've got coming up in March.
We're pushing on the Marchcalendar.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's right.
But here's the thing I learneda long time ago because I made a
bad mistake.
Since Diana's birthday is soclose to Valentine's Day, I
originally thought that I couldjust kind of put them together
and celebrate one time, not uh,no, no, I made that my wife
Christmas and, uh, you know, mywhole family's December.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So it's yes, no, you've got to celebrate each day
in the summer.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So yeah, you can't like postpone the birthday
celebration or Valentine's?
No, no, don't even, don't eventhink about it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, that's really what I do.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I did it one time.
That was not a good plan.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I worked the entire year just to pay for December.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
My goal is to get ahead by the time December comes
, so I can buy all thesepresents.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, exactly right.
But yeah exciting, but you know, Valentine's Day last week, and
so I just heard that.
I heard about this and so justwanted to share this with our
listeners.
What did the French chef givehis wife for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
What did the French wife give French French?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
French chef.
What did the French chef givehis wife for Valentine's day?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I do not know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He gave her a hug and a quiche.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
One thing I have not done and I was playing with it,
trying to get it done when ourpre-show you know recordings is
trying to get all our buttons up.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh good, the buttons are not working.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I had it down in studio and I've got a new
control panel here and I stilldon't have man.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
We've got so many new things.
This is like a new chapter.
Well, we've been doing thispodcast about 18 months now, so
we're just coming on all kindsof new things for us.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, this is all I'll be taking on the road.
Soon I'll be hanging out inWaco doing this recording studio
down in Waco.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You can come anytime.
It would be so much fun.
That's so much fun.
This is an awesome church,First Methodist.
It's an honor to be here.
I was at this church in collegefor the four years I was down
here at Baylor and part of mysenior year I was on staff as
the college director, and so tobe asked to come back in the
(04:29):
interim between the pastor wholeft to work with the bishop and
the new pastor is coming in inMay, for me to be down here and
to be the interim senior pastoris just like a full circle.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Did any of the people recognize you?
They know you from the past.
Do you have any attendees?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
In fact, there was a few, there was a few, and that's
been a few years ago, and sothere's not too many still here,
because that was back in the70s and so it's been a long time
.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's been a long time .
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's been a long time , but a few of them do, and so
it's good to reconnect with thisamazing congregation and just
doing the job that's awesome,awesome.
Yeah, get to preach every weekuntil the end of April, that's
just fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, enjoy it, it'll be good, it'll be really good.
We like to speak and it's funwhen we can get in front of
people and share the word andthe wisdom and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, and the amazing thing was, last Sunday no one
fell asleep.
I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
No one fell asleep.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No one fell asleep.
Well, that's impressive, mygosh, yeah that's, that's really
really good.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, that doesn't happen every day, you know no,
not, not every time.
But that's the goal make sureeveryone's awake that's the goal
.
Yes, all right things up inarlington.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Let's, uh, let's get on with the podcast for today.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We're doing all right here in Arlington.
Yeah, we're going that hot cold, hot cold thing, you know.
So you know it's just whatwe're dealing with.
So Ezekiel is what we'retalking a little bit about today
.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
We're talking about the amazing book of Ezekiel, and
yes, this is one of the mostsignificant books of the Old
Testament and I'll give a littlebackground.
But chapter 37 of the book ofEzekiel is probably one of the
(06:35):
most referred to chapters in theentire Old Testament.
It's called the Valley of DryBones.
We'll get to that in just a fewminutes.
But Ezekiel was.
Let me just give a littlebackground.
So you have, many years beforeEzekiel you had King David.
His son, solomon, became kingafter David died.
(06:57):
When Solomon died, the kingdomsplit into two kingdoms, the
north and the south.
Solomon died, the kingdom splitinto two kingdoms, the north
and the south, and each kingdomhad its own.
We won't get into why all thathappened, but it did, and each
kingdom had its own kings.
Well, in around 722 BC, theAssyrian Empire came in and
(07:23):
conquered the Northern Kingdom,and so you had the Northern
Kingdom gone and then so you hadthe Southern Kingdom.
The Assyrian Empire was justhuge, just conquered a lot of
territory in that time ofhistory, and they held on to
(07:45):
that for a couple hundred years.
And then in the 600s, right atthe end of the 600s BC, the
Babylonian Empire came intoprominence and so there was a
big fight between theBabylonians and the Assyrians,
and so the Babylonians conqueredthe city of Nineveh, which was
(08:10):
in Assyria, in 612 BC, and thenthey started moving towards
Israel, jerusalem and those kindof things.
So in 5, five well, let's justsay around 597 BC the
Babylonians came in and theywere.
(08:33):
They didn't destroy Jerusalem,but they conquered the city and
they took about 10,000 Jews toBabylon as exiles, and this man,
ezekiel, was one of those10,000 that went, and so he's
actually writing as an exile ina foreign land, and now he's
(08:56):
from a priestly family.
So one of the desires he had wasto be a priest, and so that
could happen when he was 30.
And so he's actually in exilein Babylon on his 30th birthday
and around that time, and he hasthese visions from God about
(09:18):
the future of Jerusalem, thefuture of the country, and then
so the destruction of the city,which happened in 586 BC, and
then so the book is very similarto other prophets, but the one
thing about Ezekiel is he wasactually living in Babylon.
But the one thing about Ezekielis he was actually living in
(09:38):
Babylon during that time, and sohe has a whole different
perspective than, say, jeremiahor Isaiah or some of the other
prophets that we've talked about, and when he's writing it talks
a lot about what happened andthe people, but at the very end
(10:01):
there's hope, and chapter 37 isreally the beginning of that.
He's talking about the valleyof dry bones and he sees this
vision of this valley and allthat are bones, just dry human
bones, and then God begins tobreathe on these bones and they
come to life, and so that is asymbolic representation of that.
There's going to be life againfor the people of Israel, and
(10:25):
it's just a very powerfulsymbolic chapter that talks
about what's going to happen.
And so the exiles were there for70 years.
They came back to Jerusalem.
That's a whole other storywe'll talk about in another
podcast, but because Ezekiel wasthere and witnessed that and
(10:48):
was a part of that, he has aunique perspective that I think
leads to some leadershipprinciples that we can talk
about today.
So anything you want to add tothat, tim, before we move
forward.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
No, I think you're right on.
I know the Valley of the DryBones is a huge part of this,
you know, and the way peoplelook at it.
And you know, one of thebiggest things that I got out of
this and I'll throw theleadership part of this in is,
you know Ezekiel had to deliversome tough messages and I think
that's where leaders, you know,sometimes we avoid those hard
(11:28):
conversations.
You know, those toughsituations we sort of put off,
thinking that it's going to workitself out over time, work
itself out over time, and Ithink that that's one of the
things that really appealed tome on this.
You know, listening toEzekiel's story, that he had to
bring some messages Now, a lotof the prophets do but he had
(11:50):
some tough ones to lead byexample with.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, and it wasn't that it was easy for him, but
that was the calling that Godput on his life and he didn't
back down from it.
And so I think what your firstpoint was so well taken, that if
we are a leader, sometimesleaders have to make difficult
decisions, and that could be abudget issue, that could be a
(12:17):
staffing issue, that could be abudget issue, that could be a
staffing issue, that could be arelocation issue.
There's all kinds of issuesthat could be modifying the plan
, the timeline.
There's so many tough decisionsthat leaders should be making
(12:38):
and I'm wondering if, in yourexperience, tim, with dealing
with you know, speaking toleaders, if some people leaders
don't want to do that becausethey don't want to experience
the consequence if they make abad choice, you know, and
whatever that might be, you know, here's the big thing is, and I
guess it depends on the levelof leadership, I guess where
you're at, how long you've beenin a position.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I mean, confidence comes over time, you know.
As we know, you get moreconfident the more that you've
been in a position, and that'salways a thing to do.
But a lot of times people theyput off because they're afraid
they're going to make the right,the wrong decision and or the
consequences.
Am I going to make this personmad and he or she's not going to
(13:18):
talk to me?
Or they're going to rebel orthey're going to quit?
Well, this is a good person,but I still have to have those
tough conversations and a lot oftimes leaders, like I said,
they just think it's going towork itself out, and what it is
is.
It doesn't.
It just festers and gets worseand worse and worse and then
you've got a bigger problem.
Now it's affecting multiplepeople in your department, not
(13:39):
just one.
That you could have nipped thisat the bud at the very
beginning and not have a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So yeah, and we have to be sure that leaders
understand that one of the mostimportant principles of
leadership is that you have toearn the right to be heard.
So if you are new to the leaderand you see there's a tough
decision that has to be made,you might just wait until you've
earned that right Now.
Each organization has its owntimeline as to how long that
(14:08):
takes, but I think that leads toanother leadership principle,
and that you want to know yourpeople.
You want to know how they tick,you want to know about them as
much as they're willing to share, and the more you do that, the
more trust you build with yourpeople then the more they're
willing to listen to you whenyou have to make those tough
(14:30):
decisions.
If you just come in and youdon't know your people well and
you just start being autocraticabout it and making all these
decisions, that could reallylead to more problems.
And so you have to earn theright to be heard.
And once that happens, it's alsohow you phrase what you're
saying, the tone of your voice,the compassion of your heart.
(14:54):
Are you beating around the bush?
Sometimes leaders just don'tget to the point.
They just kind of hem and hawaround the point and by the time
someone's done, they go.
What was he talking about?
(15:15):
I don't really know what he'stalking about, so it's important
to be easily understood so thatpeople know exactly what's
happening.
Yeah, that's exactly right Now.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We started out and you were talking about the
Valley of Dry Bones, right.
And you know, trusting the God'svision even when it seems
impossible.
And I think that's what I pullout of the leadership.
You know that sometimes leadersin this, you know they roll
into the thing that you knowthis isn't going to work or
(15:43):
there's no hope or we need tojust give up now.
And and I felt that that sortof where it tied me into
leadership of you know, sort ofnever losing sight of hope
because you know you wouldn'tthink that, uh, that a valley of
dry bones with a little breathwould come back to have motion
and life and anything's possible.
(16:05):
You know, anything's possible.
I always tell people that.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Well, here's the thing that's, I think, a
leadership principle for thatparticular chapter.
In 37 is that Ezekiel realizedhis own limitations.
He could not do that withouthelp.
Now, obviously, in this chapter, he's relying upon the help of
God.
But the question is do we asleaders recognize that sometimes
(16:33):
we need our team, we need otherpeople to work together to make
this happen?
And if we think that it'salways depending upon us, then
that might be part of theproblem.
And so your team?
It could be two people, you andanother person.
(16:54):
It could be a team of 10.
You know that's up to you, butsometimes we get into trouble as
leaders because we makemistakes without you know,
talking to other people, gettingsome advice and go from there.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I still get to see your, your,your pretty face on camera.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You know, oh my goodness yeah it's, it's all
right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You know, we probably won't upload it because we have
faces made for radio, probablygood, I have a face for the
platform, I actually get to seeposy, so it's almost like I'm
sitting across the table from me.
You know one of those things?
Yeah, it's almost like I'msitting across the table from
him.
You know one of those things?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it's really good, and so let's get back to
Ezekiel for just a few minutesbefore we, you know, throw in
some dad jokes, dad jokes yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Do we have dad jokes?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I have.
You know I'm not there, so Idon't have as many dad jokes as
I would normally have.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We don't have the emergency, I'm going to have to
grab the emergency dad joke outof the studio.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I did not take it down here to wake up with you
, Because I'm in the secondarystudio today.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
so I'm broadcasting out of my main, so I'll have to
grab the emergency.
Dad jokes out of the biblicalplace and our studio back there
in the back.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
So okay, so, speaking of that, what do you call a dog
that can do magic?
What do you call a dog that cando magic?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Oh my gosh, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I do not know A dog that can do magic.
What do you call it?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I don't know A labracadabrador, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Where are those?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
buttons.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I know I can let's see, I can probably put the
microphone over here somewhere.
You can just mute me.
Yeah, oh, okay.
So here's the other thing aboutleadership from Ezekiel.
He was right there in the midstof it.
He wasn't getting in and out ofthe place.
He didn't excuse himself andtell the people oh, you got to
(19:01):
do this.
No, he was right there.
Hey, you got it.
Did you hear it?
I did hear it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That's so awesome, that's really good.
But here's the thing he wasright there with them in the
other country.
He was in exile, just like them, and one of the things he felt
really led to do was toencourage the people that your
current situation is not goingto be your final situation, and
(19:30):
so I think that's a really goodthing for leaders to keep in
mind.
Is okay, is all I see in gloomand doom, or I'm going to hold
that hope, or what does thefuture look like?
And, like we said before, notto be Pollyannish but be
realistic.
But a leader has to hold thathope, and if that's difficult
(19:50):
for you, maybe you don't need tobe the leader, maybe your
organization needs anotherleader, and not everybody's cut
out to be a leader.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You know there's a lot of people that I had to.
They had to take six months ofcoaching with me and or they had
to take a step back and notbecome the leader of the
department.
And she said, really, you know,the coaching ain't going to do
anything for me.
I'm just not fit to be a leader, I've just don't make a good
leader.
And she stepped back and sheresigned the leadership position
and went back as one of thepeople in the department.
So not everybody is designedfor it.
(20:35):
Not everybody wants to be aleader.
Matter of fact.
That's a lot of what happens incompanies.
It's the person that's beenthere the longest that gets
promoted to the leader, and alot of them don't want to be
leaders and that throws yourdepartment all out of whack
because this person is not agood leader.
They just got seniority thereand man, that'll throw a company
well into a mess every once ina while.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, and sometimes people get promoted because
they're available, not becausethey're qualified, and yet you
bring in someone new or leapfrogsomeone over because you see
their leadership potential andsometimes that creates all kinds
of problems because someonedidn't get picked and they've
been there for 22 years andsomeone that's been there 15
(21:18):
years gets the promotion.
And you know it's a tough thingand you've got to just have a
lot of wisdom to choose theright, the right thing, the
right person.
But you should be training upsomeone else to be the leader in
case something happens.
It just needs to be importantto do that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So you should, you should.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
You should.
I've been in a part of in thepast.
I'm not currently now, but Iwas active in Rotary for a long
time and my father-in-law wasvery active in Rotary.
He was like perfect attendancefor like I don't even know how
many years, like 50 years orsomething.
It was amazing.
But they have such a system of,okay, we have a president, but
(22:02):
we're also training the nextpresident while we're doing it,
and so part of that and this isnot in Ezekiel, but that's part
of leadership is who's going tobe ready to be trained to take
responsibility.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
The Bible sort of talks about succession planning
in a way right.
In a way, you can interpret itthat way that all the setup of
the Bible is what house is goingto take over and what magical
chess plays God's going to maketo you know.
Align it to go the right path.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah.
And so we look in the newTestament, jesus.
He had his 12 disciples.
One of them obviously betrayedhim, but the other 11, they,
they were in training forleadership for three years.
And so the question would behow do we do that in our
organization?
How do we do that?
(22:58):
And so, when you're looking atthat leader, going back to
Ezekiel, there needs to beaccountability for leadership,
there needs to be responsibility.
And so the question is do yourleaders or do your people maybe
there's just you and three otherpeople in the organization do
they know exactly what their jobis supposed to do?
(23:20):
Is there a job description?
Do you talk with them regularly?
Do they know what they'resupposed to do?
Do they have a quota?
Do they have a timeline?
All that should be laid out onpaper.
Timeline All that should belaid out on paper.
(23:47):
When I was asked to come downhere to Waco, they outlined my
responsibilities on paper.
We all agree to that and sayyou know, this is what I'm
supposed to do on Sunday.
This is so.
There's no confusion about that, and obviously we got to keep
focused on the mission of theorganization and make sure that
people are working towards that.
So one of the things I'm doing.
We had our first full staffmeeting yesterday and I told the
(24:10):
staff hey, over the next 30days, I want to meet every one
of you and we're going to talkabout the mission, and then
we're talking about what are youdoing in your department to
work toward that mission.
I just want to know how thatworks.
I have some of their goals onpaper, but I don't have all the
strategies.
I just want to learn thestrategies.
I want to learn the timelines,just so that we can all be on
(24:32):
the same page and they mightalready be, but I'm so new that
I don't know, and so that's oneof the things that I want to do
is make sure that I'm on thepage, that they're on the same
page as me and I'm on the samepage as them.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think that's the way it is and probably the last
one we'll get into.
On, leadership is, you know,we've danced around it, but
Ezekiel lived out his messagesthrough symbolic actions and I
think that shows that leaders,they need to walk the talk right
, you know if they say something, they need to follow through
(25:09):
and do what they say they'regoing to do and be able to stand
up and don't be afraid.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think walking the talk is probably one of the—if
you had to say, okay, what arethe five top most important
characteristics of a leader, Ithink walking the talk would be
at least one of those five.
You can't have your people doone thing and you do another.
That just leaves a chaos andmistrust and lack of integrity
(25:40):
and all kinds of consequences.
And you're right, ezekiel, hewas called by God to do this.
He saw these incredible visionsand he was so faithful, even in
a very difficult situation.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So yeah, awesome, awesome.
Well, we're pushing on.
You know 25 minutes or so onour stuff.
We're a couple minutes shy, butI think we've talked a little
bit about Ezekiel, one thingthat I will talk and I want to
make sure that I have a questionfor you.
Ezekiel starts after he was inprison for five years, right,
(26:16):
and then it's broke down intotwo sections really of Ezekiel.
I mean, it's one section, butis it continuous or does it go
down?
What are some of the beginningstarts where he's in prison and
then how does it end on Ezekiel?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, he's not in prison, he's an exile.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Exile.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So he's an exile, it's different.
Okay, so he's in Babylon, he'sactually sitting by a river and
he sees this vision of God inthe temple and all those kind of
things.
So so he sees that, um, andhe's, he's, uh, can you imagine?
Here you are, you're, you'regrowing up your whole life
(27:04):
expecting, uh, to have this jobas a, as a priest.
You feel called to do that.
Your, your family's in thepriesthood.
You want to be a priest and allof a sudden, your city gets
wiped out, not necessarily wipedout physically, but the
Babylonians come in and take10,000 people.
You're one of them and you'renever going to be able to
(27:25):
realize your dream of being apriest.
And so God calls him to be adifferent type of priest in the
Babylon and to speak to thepeople.
It's more like a priest,prophet.
And so he's there sitting bythe river and he has this vision
, and so much of Ezekiel'swritings are symbolic of these
(27:48):
visions that he has from God.
And then he interprets thesevisions from God.
And then he interprets hisvisions and then, at the very
end of the book, just like mostprophets do, it ends with hope
like the people are going to getback home, we're going to have,
we're going to be back thereand God's going to restore the
(28:12):
people and so that's kind of a.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That's sort of where I was going with.
You know, it starts out withhim coming off of his exile and
it always ends with hope, and Iwas sort of going down that
setup to go.
You know, the final verse andthe name of the city, from that
time on, will be the Lord, isthere?
Yes, how do we interpret that?
That was an honest question Iwanted to ask you about right?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Okay, that's a really good question, because what
he's basically saying is thepeople prior to the Babylonians
coming in, over the couplehundred years prior to that
whole thing and the destructionof Jerusalem, the people were
worshiping other gods.
Even in the temple, even thetemple area, they were
(28:59):
worshiping other gods.
And Ezekiel's saying, hey,we're going to get back, and God
is I mean, the temple's goingto be, god's going to be back in
Israel, where he needs to be,he's going to be honored, he's
going to be elevated, he's goingto be worshiped as the one true
God.
And so he's saying, hey, thisis going to happen and God's
(29:20):
going to be in his rightfulplace at some point in the
future.
So we will not be worshipingforeign gods, we're going to be
worshiping the one true God.
So that's how it ends and it'sa pretty powerful message for
the people back then.
It's a very powerful messagefor us that, even in the
(29:42):
difficult times, there's alwayshope for a future, that your
current situation does not haveto be your final situation.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Awesome, powerful, powerful imagery and symbolic
imagery of of in the book ofEzekiel.
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So I got you Well, I think that good.
On Ezekiel, I think we sort ofchatted on that one a little bit
, that one a little bit, and I Ithought about you know the dad
jokes and and I was like I Ithought about uh, um, you know
tech jokes, because we're havingall kinds of wraparound tech
(30:21):
things today.
Why did the uh ai go to therapy?
I don't know why because it hadtoo many processing issues.
Oh gosh, okay, so last weekendlast weekend.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Last weekend, we went to a wedding.
Okay, oh yeah, it was sobeautiful.
Even the the wedding cake wasin tears there we go there you
go um what else you got for uswell, Well, you know, it's been
raining down here in Waco alittle bit this morning and you
(30:59):
know what happens when it rainscats and dogs.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Well, you have to be careful not to step in a poodle.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh, I'll give that one.
You give that to me.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I get a cheer.
I get a little cheer on thatone.
You give that to me.
Oh my gosh, I get a cheer, Iget a little cheer on that one.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, I tried to make a joke about pizza.
You know this one, don't you?
It was just too cheesy.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
That one is really cheesy.
I had to bring some of the oldones out you did.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Oh my gosh, what's the skeleton's?
You know we're talking aboutthe Valley of Dry Bones.
What's a skeleton's?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
least favorite room.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
No, it isn't Least favorite room, the skeleton's
least favorite room?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
The living room.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Oh, now I would push the other button for that.
You're just too far away.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I got total control of the buttons.
You got total control of thebuttons, you got total control
of everything.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Oh my goodness.
Well, you know this church here.
It's a large building and youknow I'm up here on the second
floor right now.
But I've learned here I've justbeen here a week but you can
(32:26):
never count on stairs.
You never can count on stairsbecause they're always coming
down with something that's a badone.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I know the stair joke .
You know, all right, you gotone, one more, and then I don't
have fine people, I do not haveanother good one?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I have a bunch of bad ones oh no no, I think we
should just leave our our.
Uh, why was?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
noah, so calm during the flood?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I should know this one.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I wrote a book on Noah he wrote it I was getting
ready to say, because he knewthe ark was a boatload of fun.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Oh, that's it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Oh yeah, Check out Dr Posey's book.
What is that one on Noah?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, 12 Gifts we Can't Afford to Lose, oh 12
Gifts.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
That's right.
Yeah, 12 gifts.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
It's on my library right behind me over here.
Yeah, it's right there withyour Star Wars helmets, my gosh
I wish you all could see thestudio.
Tim has he redid his office andhe has.
How many Star Wars helmets doyou have back there?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
One, two, three, four , five, six, seven, eight, nine,
probably about 20.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh my goodness, they're like life-size helmets.
I mean, these are just startroopers, whatever I mean.
My goodness, I look like you'reuh, you know, out there on the
spaceship or something all right.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, we'll let these fine people get out of here.
Um, dr posey, always fine.
This is uh success.
I do believe we'll let thesefine people get out of here.
Dr Posey, always fine.
This is a success.
I do believe we'll see if itrecorded and everything worked
after we get done with this but.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
If not.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
you guys will probably never know about it.
So other than that, you know DrPosey from Waco, mr Lanceford
from up here in Dallas.
We're looking forward to it.
Check us out,biblicalleadershipshowcom and Dr
Posey, take us out.
Or will you have any finalwords before you take us out
(34:23):
with anything fun?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
just make it a great day thank you, guys, have a
great one.
We'll see you next week.
Ok, bye.
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