February 4, 2025 • 33 mins
Ever find yourself returning to a place that holds special significance in your life? Join Tim Lansford and Dr. Dean Posey, as they navigate the meaningful journey of Dr. Posey's new interim senior pastor role at First Methodist Church in Waco, Texas. This church isn't just any church; it's the same one that was pivotal in his spiritual growth during his Baylor college years. You'll hear engaging stories about his path from pre-med student to ministry leader, complete with a few dad jokes to keep things light-hearted as we discuss this full-circle moment in Dr. Posey's life.
Curious about how ancient wisdom can inform modern challenges? We dive deep into the prophetic messages of Jeremiah, exploring how his writings offer not just warnings but profound hope during dire times. With the historical backdrop of the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, Jeremiah's story reminds us that even when facing ruin, there's always a glimmer of restoration. We draw connections between these timeless themes and today's leadership struggles, especially during crises like the COVID-19 pandemic, offering lessons on maintaining hope and transparency.
In the midst of enlightening discussions, laughter is never far away. Join us for some witty banter as we reflect on our memorable New Year's Eve show and share a few tales from our travels, including a peculiar visit to a town boasting the world's tiniest wind turbine. We invite you to become part of our vibrant community at biblicalleadershipshow.com, where you can submit prayer requests or your favorite dad jokes. Whether you're near Waco and can see Dr. Posey in action or part of our global audience, we promise resources and inspiration to fuel your journey of joy and faith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Alrighty, yeah, uh-huh yeah, come on, come on,
alrighty.
Welcome to another exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Damn you gotta say it Welcome, welcome, welcome.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Every week we gotta do it so hey, welcome to
BiblicalLeadershipShowcom I am.
Tim Lansford.
With me is Dr Dean Posey.
Dr Dean Posey, oh my gosh.
Yeah, all kinds of stuff goingon in our world.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's going on all kinds of stuff going on glad to
be here in the studio today yeah, I'm glad to have you here in
the studio here today busy you,you are busy yes, you know this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Just you know you're busy being a retired triathlon.
Oh, maybe not Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Got to put all the triathlon training on hold, for
just the swimming might bechallenging and the reason that
is is so we can let our audienceknow For the next three months.
Started Sunday, but for thenext three months I am the
interim senior pastor at FirstMethodist Church in Waco.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Waco Texas.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, so firstwacocom or org is the website.
You can watch it online.
Two services on Sunday morningand there's several campuses
down there, but I'll bepreaching at the main campus.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
That's pretty exciting.
Yeah, because we have a lot ofpeople that you know have been
in your churches over the years.
They're listeners and maybethey want to road trip a little
bit.
It's not a horrible drive fromDallas, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, be down there an hour and you can go through
Hillsborough and stop atBuc-ee's.
There's a new Buc-ee's downthere.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know it well.
That's the way there is youknow I go to Austin and all that
way quite often.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So yeah, there's a lot of Buc-ee's along the way
there is, and so, anyway, ifyou're in the Waco area, stop in
.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Stop in.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, stop in say hi, I'd love to see you.
So they have a new pastor, MikeVoits, who's coming in May 1st,
but the senior pastor is nowworking for the bishop, so they
asked me to come in and fill inuntil the new pastor gets there,
which I'm honored to do.
That was the church that Dianaand I went to when we were in
(02:35):
college, down at Baylor.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I was just getting ready to tell them a little the
full circle of this.
I thought that was the bestthing about it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah.
So we went there, startedfreshman year and I got very
involved in that church and Iwas a pre-med chemistry major
and just one thing led toanother Just got involved and
got to know the pastor and oneof the other clergy that was a
(03:03):
member of that church.
And sophomore year the collegedepartment did a musical for the
church, godspell, and I was thedirector of that and played
John the Baptist in that andthat really made me start
thinking about what I want to do.
Do I want to go to med schoolor maybe not.
And so I just felt led that Godwas calling me to go into the
(03:25):
pastoral ministry and so Ichanged my major from chemistry.
After 86 hours I changed mymajor from chemistry to religion
and went into the ministry.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Quite a big jump there.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
A big jump and it was the right thing to do, and so,
but that was a church and so,but that was a church, and so
they've, you know, they neededsomebody and they called me to
ask me if I would come in and dothis for a couple of months,
and it is full circle.
You know, it's been a long timesince college and but that
church was very influential inmy life and so it's just an
(03:59):
honor to be down there, and someof the people that were there
when I was there many years ago,are still there and you know,
I'm just going to encourage themto wear sunglasses because the
shine is going to be reallyintense.
I'm going to just say hey, justbring your sunglasses, you can
(04:20):
wear them in church you knowthat's great yeah, so it's going
to be.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, so I'm down in Waco from Saturday afternoon
sometimes and they have anAirbnb for me down there, which
is really nice, and then I'llstay in the church through
Thursday morning and drive back,be here in the studio so we can
record a podcast and be withyou.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not stopping the podcast.
We've discussed it.
We have a plan and he's goingto come back and do some.
I might even go down there andget some done at the church.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We could meet at Bucky's.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We could meet at Bucky's right in the middle of
the parking lot do our church.
All right, We'll put our signsout and just call it good.
Maybe we can get some listeners.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, we can work that out with the Buc-ee's right
.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So bring some people to ministry, so that is so fun,
but I am so excited for you.
I know that.
To me, especially when I foundout, this is the full circle and
stuff.
This is just.
That's just such a cool thing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
It's a cool thing that God put together yeah,
really good and that building.
It's got a main floor and thenit's got a basement and a second
floor, okay, and it's a bigbuilding and it's been a long
time since I've been in it, butwe were there the previous
Sunday just so they couldintroduce us to the congregation
(05:46):
, and one of the staff membershanded me a booklet okay booklet
, it was a step-by-step guide onhow to climb stairs.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I had to throw in a dad joke just at the beginning,
I know, and I haven't got mybuttons going, yet oh, the
buttons are still not working.
I hadn't even my buttons goingyet.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh the buttons are still not working.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I hadn't even looked at them.
Today We've been going nonstopyeah.
Yeah, that's all right.
Yeah, the only thing that wasweird is they were going to make
you sleep in a tent outside thechurch On the parking lot, on
the parking lot or in my car?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, I was like no.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
No, no, they got you hooked up.
So, anyway, what are we?
Are we doing a dad joke or arewe talking about something about
that?
Well, we're going to talk aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
You were looking at both there yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know, if you ever see us in studio, Bozy has all
his dad jokes laid out, and thenhe has all this show prep and
everything laid out, so I neverknow which way he's looking,
because he looks at both of themlike hey which one are we going
to do?
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So today we're focusing on one of the most
significant books of the OldTestament, and that is the book
of Jeremiah and the book ofLamentations.
Now, historical people,scholars, many of them believe
that Jeremiah wrote Lamentations.
Even though there's no authoridentified in that book, it does
(07:10):
talk about one of the mosttragic things in the Bible and
that is the destruction ofJerusalem in 586 BC by the
Babylonian Empire, and it'srecorded there, and so there's a
lot of lament about that.
And so, because of thesimilarities some of the
similarities with the book ofJeremiah, jeremiah was at that
(07:31):
time as well.
That's why many scholarsbelieve that Jeremiah wrote the
book of Lamentations.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I think on Jeremiah, he hired somebody to come and
follow him around to help himwrite Right, exactly, correct,
Okay, yeah, so he did that andthat could have been the same
thing.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the question is who was the actual?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
where did the words come from right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And so many think of Jeremiah and there's some great
leadership principles there inthe book and it's one of the
longest books in the OldTestament.
You have Ezekiel, Jeremiah,isaiah.
Those are some.
They're called the majorprophets.
I know last time we talked aboutthe difference between the
major and the minor, and it'snot the significance of their
(08:12):
message, it really is the lengthof their book, and so
Jeremiah's got a lot of chapters.
And then you talk about some ofthe other ones, like Hosea,
micah, you know, malachi.
They're shorter books.
The message is just as powerful, but a lot shorter.
So there's 12 minor prophets,five major prophets, and so,
anyway, let's talk aboutJeremiah and the leadership
(08:35):
lessons that we got from there.
And just know, for the peoplethat might not be familiar with
Jeremiah, he lived in the lastpart of the reign of the
southern kingdom before thedestruction of Jerusalem, and he
really talks in the metaphor ofbeing a shepherd.
(08:58):
And so let's just stop rightthere and talk about the
leadership principles, of whatthat means.
Now, as a pastor, you're calledto be not just a preacher, but
you're called to be a shepherdof your people.
But let's think about that asfar as business.
You know a shepherd if you justthink of a shepherd, the
shepherd takes care of the sheep.
And we're not saying ouremployees or our co-workers are
(09:18):
sheep, but the question is do wecare for them?
Do we care for the profit or dowe care for the people?
And so there's consequences ofboth.
It's not that you can't carefor both, but which one has
priority?
Yes, and we could all havenightmare stories of companies
that care for the profit morethan they care for the people.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Oh, yeah, that's you know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
yeah, I could tell you stories and stories about
that, so you know companies that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I've worked for when I was younger.
So yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I'll tell you a story that when I was in
seminary you know I needed a joband I got a job.
I might have told this storybefore, but it's worth repeating
right now because of what we'retalking about.
So worked for a bridge buildingcompany in Atlanta and that's
when they were building Loop 285around Atlanta.
This was in the late 70s and Iworked for this bridge building
(10:12):
company and tying steel.
So that was a tough job,picking up steel, tying it.
We didn't have those zip gunsthat they have now.
You had to tie it with a roll ofwire and pliers.
And I had to learn how to dothat and I did, and at the
beginning of the summer I couldbarely pick up rebar.
I mean, by the end of thesummer I learned how to do it
(10:33):
and so I was working and wedidn't have to check in.
We got there.
There was no time cards oranything.
The boss kept track.
Well, I kept track of my ownhours, and so he would, you know
, he would write us a check.
But after I'd worked for himfor you know, a couple of weeks,
I noticed that I wasn't gettingpaid all that I should get paid
(10:55):
, you know it was like hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That was interesting and so I confronted him about it
.
And so that was hard to do, butI confronted him about it and I
said, hey, these are my hoursand this is what you paid me.
There's a little short.
He just pulled, he had a wad ofcash in his wallet.
He just pulled it out andhanded me the difference and I
thought, okay, well, then ithappened again and I just said I
(11:22):
can't work for you anymore.
You know, it's like obviously.
I mean, he was a young guy,really smart, but his goal was
to be a millionaire before hewas 30.
He probably made it, but Icouldn't work for a guy who
valued profit over his people.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And so that's.
It happens too often, and ifyou take care of your people,
you're going to get the profit.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
You are.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
But sometimes it's a hard lesson for people to learn.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, 100%.
And you know similar thingswith me.
Just, you know people, you knowrun, you know be executive and
you know fire.
All these people I'm like, well, let's just, they're brilliant
people, let's repurpose them,let's find a place for them.
And you know you can't saveeveryone.
But I mean you can do a lot andwe did.
I mean we took this big groupthat was under one of our
(12:10):
projects and really.
But yeah, that went down aspiral for me because I just
don't believe in that.
You know you try to work asmuch as you can to keep
everybody employed.
If they've done a good job,just because they made a little
money, the project's over,figure out how to hold them out
and don't lose good people untilthe next project starts, you
(12:30):
know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes, and so one of the things down in Waco, what
I've told my administrativeassistant and the guy that's the
business manager, I said I wantduring my time here I know it's
not long, it's only threemonths I want to get to know
every staff person in the church.
I want to spend some time withevery person.
Now I'm going to meet with thepastors obviously more
frequently, but I want to get toknow every person because I
just want to know what they do.
I want to know how they feel.
I want to know their concerns.
(12:59):
I want to know about theirfamily.
I just want to know about them,and it's easy to just focus on
the goals and the mission andreally not know what's going on
in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And so we have a choice.
I know it takes time to do that, but people will really be
loyal if they know you careabout them.
You care about not just theirproduction, but you care about
their person.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And so the question is as a leader, how are we
showing that we might be sayingit, but do we really take time
to do it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, the talk afterwards made me think.
I knew I had a thought that,yeah, over the weekend I just
spoke at a bridge buildingconference as the keynote, so
I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I share some war stories from you.
I forgot about your bridgebuilding.
That's what.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I did over the weekend, talked to you at a big
conference for somebody, a bigcompany, on that, so anyway,
just made me think of it beforeI forgot to tell you that.
So anyway.
So this Jeremiah here, now, theway it's laid out, it tells a
story of you know, he knew thatBabylon was going to come.
(14:12):
It was sort of the way Iunderstood it.
It was sort of words of goodand words of bad, sort of do
this but expect this, right, andso it was sort of a good and
bad.
And then it tells the wholestory of the, that, um, the, the
taking over of Jerusalem, right, the downfall, and but then it
(14:32):
ends with poems at the end orsomething.
And that's what made me wonderif that's what rolled into, uh,
limitations, you know, goingthrough that, because that's
sort of the alphabet poems orwhatever they call it.
You know where they do that.
So so that was a unique one.
So I sort of pieced thosetogether and I just figured I'd
ask your thought on that beforewe go too far down this rabbit
(14:53):
hole.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well, one thing about the prophets that's pretty
consistent is that, even thoughit might just be the last
sentence or the last half achapter in their book, they
always want to leave a messageof hope.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And that's pretty consistent with all the prophets
, and some have more hope thanothers, but there's always a
message of hope, like, okay,this is going to happen, but
this is not the end.
You're you know, the bad thingdoesn't have to be the final
chapter.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And so that's a pretty consistent.
It's not just through theprophets, it's through the Bible
.
Things are gonna happen, butthe bad thing doesn't have to be
the final chapter, it doesn'thave to be the final chapter of
the company, it doesn't have tobe the final chapter of your
life.
And so Jeremiah was big on that, and all the prophets were big
(15:45):
on that, Even though it wasreally sad what was happening
with the destruction ofJerusalem.
You think about a city, thismassive city, and the Babylonian
army came in and literally justtore down leveled it to the
ground and deported the people,not everybody.
(16:06):
Some people stayed in the land,but the city was just in
shambles, these big, massivestones that some of them were as
big as this room right here,they were gone.
I mean they just were tumbled.
And just to watch that and knowyou try to tell people, hey, if
you want to keep doing whatyou're doing, this is going to
(16:26):
be the result and you knowthey're not going to change and
you can just see in your heartand your spirit the consequences
of their actions and you can'tdo anything about it.
It's like we've all been on thefreeway, okay, we've all done
this.
We're driving down the freewayand the lanes that we're going
(16:47):
in are clear as anything.
But on the opposite side, goingthe other direction, is a wreck
, okay, and the line is piled upfor miles.
Well, five miles down the road,you can't stop and tell the
people hey there's a wreck,you're going to have to wait for
(17:08):
a while.
It's like that with Jeremiah andother prophets.
They were trying to warn thepeople for a long time.
Hey, turn back to God, let'sget about the mission, let's
focus on God being the God.
And they didn't listen and theconsequences were what they were
, which is really tragic.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Listen and the consequences were you know what
they were which is really tragic, but they ended Jeremiah with
hope because they invited theking back right to sit at the
table.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think, right, yeah, exactly right at the very end,
and so, anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
That was very symbolic, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
right, you know, I don't know if Well, it's at the
very end of the book and theking who was deported.
He gets to sit at the king'stable, eat a bit of food and
it's like, okay, this is bad,but there's going to be some
hope for the people, there'sgoing to be a restore.
The people were deported.
(18:03):
They were there for 70 years.
That's a long time.
Some people were born inBabylon and they died in Babylon
.
They never got to see Jerusalem, they never got to go back, and
then when the people went back,they built the temple, but it
was a while before we have aNehemiah coming and help rebuild
the walls, and so that city wasin shambles for a long time and
(18:25):
just the devastation livingaround that devastation how
depressing is that.
And I haven't met too manypeople that like disorder in
their lives.
We like order and we likethings clean and that kind of
thing, but they lived in a citythat was just rubble for a while
(18:47):
, and so Jeremiah's saying no,this is not the way the story
ends this is not theway the story ends.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so Jeremiah, chapter 29,.
Verse 11 is maybe one of themost quoted verses in the Old
Testament.
The most quoted verses in theOld Testament and this is a
(19:12):
powerful verse.
He's writing to the people thatwere there in Babylon and he
says for I know the plans I havefor you, declares the Lord,
plans to prosper you and not toharm you.
Plans to give you a hope and afuture.
I've seen that verse quoted inso many different contexts and
(19:32):
what a great message for leaders.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Because just think about what was happening with
COVID a couple years ago.
Thank goodness we're behindthat past, all that, but there's
going to be times when timesare tough in business.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And the question is as a leader I'm not saying we
have to be Pollyannish, no, wedon't have to be fake, but the
question is are we going to givehope to our people?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, you have to cast that vision, that little
glimmer that the future isbright, you know, and keep
dangling that carrot to motivatepeople to keep going.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That's exactly right, and so that's what Jeremiah was
doing.
He said hey, I know thishappened.
Okay, I know this is where youare, but there's going to be a
hope and a future if you relyupon the Lord, and so I think
that's a great leadershipprinciple to hold out to people
in difficult times in difficulttimes.
(20:31):
And so the leader a good leaderholds on to the vision of
whether things are good, whetherthings are bad.
You know, they keep the vision,and that's what Jeremiah was
trying to do the whole time istrying to keep the people
focused on the vision ofworshiping God.
They didn't do it and theconsequences were disastrous and
(20:54):
he said okay, you're going toget through this and there's
going to be a bright futureahead of you.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
So yeah, just a little glimmer of hope.
So.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Glimmer of hope and restoration.
And you know, sometimes we have, as we have to make difficult
decisions like laying off people, cutting our budget, cutting a
project line product line, youknow something downscaling.
But even when we have to makethose tough decisions, the
question is are we going to be aperson of doom and gloom or are
(21:26):
we going to be a person of hopein the future?
John Maxwell said it reallywell.
He said everything rises andfalls on leadership, and the
leader of the organization setsthe tone for that.
It's not just your words, it'syour tone of your voice, it's
your actions.
There's so much about yourpersona.
So much about your persona iscommunicated nonverbally, and so
(21:50):
that's really, really importantfor the leader.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about lamentations.
Yeah, you bet Lamentations.
Yeah, I said that right.
So this is sort of a poeticexpression of all the sorrow and
the mourning and thedestruction, really of the city,
of the city of Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That is correct.
And Lamentations if you look atit and read it in a certain way
, you can see that it reallyfocuses a lot on the
consequences of negativeleadership, and so there's
always consequences, whetherit's negative or positive
(22:36):
leadership, and so the writerwas trying to encourage the
people to be faithful to God.
So in a non-biblical sense it'slike are you faithful to your
vision?
Are you faithful to yourmission?
And so Lamentations was justlamenting over the fact that
they weren't and the sorrow theyexperienced because of bad
decisions.
(22:56):
Over Now.
This didn't happen in like aday or a week or a year.
It happened over time, ofgenerations of time.
And so just thinking about that, think about the companies that
are not willing to embrace newtechnology.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And they make a decision.
That decision might not affectthem for the next year, two,
five years, but it might affectthem five years from now because
they made a decision about no,we're not going to upgrade our
computers, or we're not going touse AI, or we're not going to
do this or we're not going to dothat, and the consequences can
(23:33):
be significant down the road.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
I saw Lamentations as one ofthose things that you know
leaders sort of has toacknowledge that.
You know we fail sometimes.
It was my.
We went down this path, likeyou said, you know, and as bad
as it is, there's still we canregroup from this.
(23:58):
You know we can perseverethrough all our challenges and
come out on top, and you knowthat perseverance through the
hard times is what really spoketo me on this chapter.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, and one of the things that I think we can learn
from this even though we didn'treally see it in the Bible, and
that is accountability andtransparency with leaders.
And so if we make a baddecision, in whatever category,
are we going to own it?
Are we going to try to justblame it on someone else?
(24:30):
And it's too often happens thatwe make a bad decision, affects
someone's life or this or jobor performance or whatever, and
we point fingers instead ofsaying you know what?
I made a bad call on that,that's my fault, I own it.
I'm really sorry.
Let's regroup and let's alllearn from that.
(24:52):
And that takes a good leader toadmit that.
Now.
It doesn't mean you don't haveto face the consequences of that
decision, but people willrespect you if you just actually
admit that, hey, I made a baddecision and we didn't see that
in the Bible.
They just kept doing what theywere doing and unfortunately,
(25:13):
they experienced some really sadconsequences of that.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Right, and it says in there, lamentations 3-40,.
Let us examine our ways andtest them and let us return to
the Lord.
And I thought that was a uh uhone that you know you can look
at accountability.
You know, reflection of, ofmaybe a pathway went down.
How many times have you heardof companies that maybe went
down a path and and, uh, itdidn't work out?
(25:40):
You know, and, or this projector a new vendor or something
like that, and and you had toflip around 100% and said, all
right, we made a mistake.
We're going back to how many, Imean, there's been big
businesses lately that have donethis and and uh, I'm not going
to really get into it, but theybig marketing ads and different
things, like they went, wait asecond.
You know, uh, we lost everybody.
(26:01):
You know, let's go back to uh,you, we thought this was going
to work.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, we made a mistake and it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So there's been a lot of stuff in there.
I just thought that one reallyspoke to me on that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, but sometimes leaders are afraid to make
mistakes, yeah, and so becausethey're paralyzed, and then they
don't make hard decisions.
I was just in a conversationwith someone yesterday about a
leader and I won't say who,because that wouldn't be fair.
They're unwilling to make harddecisions and it's like no,
(26:34):
you're the leader, you need tomake hard decisions.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Tell them to call me.
I got them.
I love that I can take it on.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But part of being a leader.
And here's the thing if you arein the leadership position, the
people that are around you okay, are you training them to make
hard decisions, or are theyalways deferring to you?
(27:15):
Are they always training themto make hard decisions?
Are they always deferring toyou?
So to me, that's part of a goodleader is, you know, we train
our people, our assistants orco-manager, whatever it may be
Are they afraid to make harddecisions?
And I've said this just not toolong ago Decisions have to be
made about an organization, bigor small.
That's just part of it.
The question is, who gets tomake them?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
And if you have a person in a leadership role that
is unwilling to make decisions,maybe they don't need to be in
that role.
They might be in the wrong seaton the bus, you know.
And so you have to think okay,how can I use that talent, maybe
in another area of theorganization?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Exactly right.
And then I was trying to figureout when Lamentations maybe got
.
You know all these poems gotwrote and you know I think it
was written in the morning.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I knew that was coming.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I can see it on your face.
I had to change.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
We just have to transition to dad jokes.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
We do.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Okay, so here's the thing.
What's a tree's favorite datingapp?
A tree's favorite dating app.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Bark something right.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Timber.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Timber, all right.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh, so we were in Louisville.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I'm so sad my buttons don't work here.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, I know we were at my nephew's house a little
after Christmas and they have adog, dee Dee, just a great dog.
I mean this dog is reallyawesome, but she is so cuddly
she will start leaning on youand then they say, watch out,
she's going to timber and shejust falls.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
It just timbers over.
I love those dogs.
Oh my gosh, they come crashingdown.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, just to make sure we're all clear, I'm going
to put my glasses on.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh boy, oh boy.
I got to get my buttons going.
I'll work on that.
I'll see if I can't get themgoing by next week.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Okay, so how did Reese eat her ice cream?
How did Reese eat her ice cream?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Withers, spoon your buttons.
We maybe need to get a newcontrol board or something.
Something, I mean, we're reallymissing.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I think our audience is saying where are the buttons?
Maybe I'll have to figure thatout by far.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I mean, people have askedus why.
You know that's.
Why do I like dad jokes?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
right.
You know why do you know?
Why do you tell them?
Why do you like?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
them and I said that's just the way how I roll,
it's just how I roll.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Can I do?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
something.
Yeah, go ahead, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
No, no, that's going to be bad.
So my wife she makes someawesome food and she has this
one recipe for Jell-O that usesbaby food.
I'm being serious, this is nota joke.
It's like orange Jell-O, babyfood, apricots or mandarin
oranges or something.
It's really delicious.
But what brand of baby food dopirates prefer for their pirate
(30:28):
babies?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I like pirate jokes, gerber.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Gerber, yes, we are missing the third person of the
podcast, and that is the buttons.
I know right, you know severalyears ago I had a hot rod pickup
.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You did.
I did have a hot rod Very badto the bone pickup, yeah it was
a 55 Ford F100 351 ClevelandCorvette rear end.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It was a really nice truck and I had that for a lot
of years.
But I was in a car club, theChristian Classic Cruisers, and
for a while I was their DJ.
Okay, but I had to take acourse on learning how to be a
DJ, but I barely scratched thesurface.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Maybe we should just end on that.
Yeah, we can.
We can give them a, give them alittle replete reprieve this
week, you know, just to let themoff the hook.
So I see you looking, you'regonna hold off, right?
Yeah, I'm gonna hold off, Ican't I can't just stop.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You know, I understand, I just don't want to
.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
If you go back and listen to our New Year's Eve
show, that was pretty much alljokes the whole time.
So like it or hate it, if youlike dad jokes, we actually had
some good ones that time, yeah,so driving back and forth to
Waco.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay.
So if you're driving back andforth to Waco, so if you're
driving back and forth to Waco,there's a little town that has
the world's tiniest wind turbineexhibit.
Honestly, I'm not a big fan.
Maybe we should end on that.
Maybe we should end in fiveminutes.
Yeah, we probably should.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Everybody's like before.
You did that joke.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It was really good.
Just talk about the Bible.
Yeah, we probably should have,but you know everybody's like
before you did that.
It was really good, just talkabout the Bible.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, check us out biblicalleadershipshowcom and
come out see Dr Posey do alittle taco around the Waco area
.
I know we have some peopleacross the world but especially
we've got some in Texas downhere.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, and if you can't do that, it's online at.
First Methodist Waco and I'dlove to have your comment.
Send me an email.
Send it to thebiblicalleadershipshowcom.
Email text us whatever it takes, and we'd love to have your
prayer requests or dad jokesplease.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes, exactly right, that'd be, nice.
All right, check us outbiblicalleadershipshowcom and Dr
Posey, take us out.
Make it a great day.
Thank you,
Alrighty, yeah, uh-huh yeah, come on, come on,
alrighty.
Welcome to another exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Damn you gotta say it Welcome, welcome, welcome.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Every week we gotta do it so hey, welcome to
BiblicalLeadershipShowcom I am.
Tim Lansford.
With me is Dr Dean Posey.
Dr Dean Posey, oh my gosh.
Yeah, all kinds of stuff goingon in our world.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's going on all kinds of stuff going on glad to
be here in the studio today yeah, I'm glad to have you here in
the studio here today busy you,you are busy yes, you know this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Just you know you're busy being a retired triathlon.
Oh, maybe not Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Got to put all the triathlon training on hold, for
just the swimming might bechallenging and the reason that
is is so we can let our audienceknow For the next three months.
Started Sunday, but for thenext three months I am the
interim senior pastor at FirstMethodist Church in Waco.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Waco Texas.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, so firstwacocom or org is the website.
You can watch it online.
Two services on Sunday morningand there's several campuses
down there, but I'll bepreaching at the main campus.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
That's pretty exciting.
Yeah, because we have a lot ofpeople that you know have been
in your churches over the years.
They're listeners and maybethey want to road trip a little
bit.
It's not a horrible drive fromDallas, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, be down there an hour and you can go through
Hillsborough and stop atBuc-ee's.
There's a new Buc-ee's downthere.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know it well.
That's the way there is youknow I go to Austin and all that
way quite often.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So yeah, there's a lot of Buc-ee's along the way
there is, and so, anyway, ifyou're in the Waco area, stop in
.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Stop in.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, stop in say hi, I'd love to see you.
So they have a new pastor, MikeVoits, who's coming in May 1st,
but the senior pastor is nowworking for the bishop, so they
asked me to come in and fill inuntil the new pastor gets there,
which I'm honored to do.
That was the church that Dianaand I went to when we were in
(02:35):
college, down at Baylor.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I was just getting ready to tell them a little the
full circle of this.
I thought that was the bestthing about it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah.
So we went there, startedfreshman year and I got very
involved in that church and Iwas a pre-med chemistry major
and just one thing led toanother Just got involved and
got to know the pastor and oneof the other clergy that was a
(03:03):
member of that church.
And sophomore year the collegedepartment did a musical for the
church, godspell, and I was thedirector of that and played
John the Baptist in that andthat really made me start
thinking about what I want to do.
Do I want to go to med schoolor maybe not.
And so I just felt led that Godwas calling me to go into the
(03:25):
pastoral ministry and so Ichanged my major from chemistry.
After 86 hours I changed mymajor from chemistry to religion
and went into the ministry.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Quite a big jump there.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
A big jump and it was the right thing to do, and so,
but that was a church and so,but that was a church, and so
they've, you know, they neededsomebody and they called me to
ask me if I would come in and dothis for a couple of months,
and it is full circle.
You know, it's been a long timesince college and but that
church was very influential inmy life and so it's just an
(03:59):
honor to be down there, and someof the people that were there
when I was there many years ago,are still there and you know,
I'm just going to encourage themto wear sunglasses because the
shine is going to be reallyintense.
I'm going to just say hey, justbring your sunglasses, you can
(04:20):
wear them in church you knowthat's great yeah, so it's going
to be.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, so I'm down in Waco from Saturday afternoon
sometimes and they have anAirbnb for me down there, which
is really nice, and then I'llstay in the church through
Thursday morning and drive back,be here in the studio so we can
record a podcast and be withyou.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not stopping the podcast.
We've discussed it.
We have a plan and he's goingto come back and do some.
I might even go down there andget some done at the church.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We could meet at Bucky's.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We could meet at Bucky's right in the middle of
the parking lot do our church.
All right, We'll put our signsout and just call it good.
Maybe we can get some listeners.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, we can work that out with the Buc-ee's right
.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So bring some people to ministry, so that is so fun,
but I am so excited for you.
I know that.
To me, especially when I foundout, this is the full circle and
stuff.
This is just.
That's just such a cool thing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
It's a cool thing that God put together yeah,
really good and that building.
It's got a main floor and thenit's got a basement and a second
floor, okay, and it's a bigbuilding and it's been a long
time since I've been in it, butwe were there the previous
Sunday just so they couldintroduce us to the congregation
(05:46):
, and one of the staff membershanded me a booklet okay booklet
, it was a step-by-step guide onhow to climb stairs.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I had to throw in a dad joke just at the beginning,
I know, and I haven't got mybuttons going, yet oh, the
buttons are still not working.
I hadn't even my buttons goingyet.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh the buttons are still not working.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I hadn't even looked at them.
Today We've been going nonstopyeah.
Yeah, that's all right.
Yeah, the only thing that wasweird is they were going to make
you sleep in a tent outside thechurch On the parking lot, on
the parking lot or in my car?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, I was like no.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
No, no, they got you hooked up.
So, anyway, what are we?
Are we doing a dad joke or arewe talking about something about
that?
Well, we're going to talk aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
You were looking at both there yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know, if you ever see us in studio, Bozy has all
his dad jokes laid out, and thenhe has all this show prep and
everything laid out, so I neverknow which way he's looking,
because he looks at both of themlike hey which one are we going
to do?
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So today we're focusing on one of the most
significant books of the OldTestament, and that is the book
of Jeremiah and the book ofLamentations.
Now, historical people,scholars, many of them believe
that Jeremiah wrote Lamentations.
Even though there's no authoridentified in that book, it does
(07:10):
talk about one of the mosttragic things in the Bible and
that is the destruction ofJerusalem in 586 BC by the
Babylonian Empire, and it'srecorded there, and so there's a
lot of lament about that.
And so, because of thesimilarities some of the
similarities with the book ofJeremiah, jeremiah was at that
(07:31):
time as well.
That's why many scholarsbelieve that Jeremiah wrote the
book of Lamentations.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I think on Jeremiah, he hired somebody to come and
follow him around to help himwrite Right, exactly, correct,
Okay, yeah, so he did that andthat could have been the same
thing.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the question is who was the actual?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
where did the words come from right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And so many think of Jeremiah and there's some great
leadership principles there inthe book and it's one of the
longest books in the OldTestament.
You have Ezekiel, Jeremiah,isaiah.
Those are some.
They're called the majorprophets.
I know last time we talked aboutthe difference between the
major and the minor, and it'snot the significance of their
(08:12):
message, it really is the lengthof their book, and so
Jeremiah's got a lot of chapters.
And then you talk about some ofthe other ones, like Hosea,
micah, you know, malachi.
They're shorter books.
The message is just as powerful, but a lot shorter.
So there's 12 minor prophets,five major prophets, and so,
anyway, let's talk aboutJeremiah and the leadership
(08:35):
lessons that we got from there.
And just know, for the peoplethat might not be familiar with
Jeremiah, he lived in the lastpart of the reign of the
southern kingdom before thedestruction of Jerusalem, and he
really talks in the metaphor ofbeing a shepherd.
(08:58):
And so let's just stop rightthere and talk about the
leadership principles, of whatthat means.
Now, as a pastor, you're calledto be not just a preacher, but
you're called to be a shepherdof your people.
But let's think about that asfar as business.
You know a shepherd if you justthink of a shepherd, the
shepherd takes care of the sheep.
And we're not saying ouremployees or our co-workers are
(09:18):
sheep, but the question is do wecare for them?
Do we care for the profit or dowe care for the people?
And so there's consequences ofboth.
It's not that you can't carefor both, but which one has
priority?
Yes, and we could all havenightmare stories of companies
that care for the profit morethan they care for the people.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Oh, yeah, that's you know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
yeah, I could tell you stories and stories about
that, so you know companies that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I've worked for when I was younger.
So yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I'll tell you a story that when I was in
seminary you know I needed a joband I got a job.
I might have told this storybefore, but it's worth repeating
right now because of what we'retalking about.
So worked for a bridge buildingcompany in Atlanta and that's
when they were building Loop 285around Atlanta.
This was in the late 70s and Iworked for this bridge building
(10:12):
company and tying steel.
So that was a tough job,picking up steel, tying it.
We didn't have those zip gunsthat they have now.
You had to tie it with a roll ofwire and pliers.
And I had to learn how to dothat and I did, and at the
beginning of the summer I couldbarely pick up rebar.
I mean, by the end of thesummer I learned how to do it
(10:33):
and so I was working and wedidn't have to check in.
We got there.
There was no time cards oranything.
The boss kept track.
Well, I kept track of my ownhours, and so he would, you know
, he would write us a check.
But after I'd worked for himfor you know, a couple of weeks,
I noticed that I wasn't gettingpaid all that I should get paid
(10:55):
, you know it was like hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That was interesting and so I confronted him about it
.
And so that was hard to do, butI confronted him about it and I
said, hey, these are my hoursand this is what you paid me.
There's a little short.
He just pulled, he had a wad ofcash in his wallet.
He just pulled it out andhanded me the difference and I
thought, okay, well, then ithappened again and I just said I
(11:22):
can't work for you anymore.
You know, it's like obviously.
I mean, he was a young guy,really smart, but his goal was
to be a millionaire before hewas 30.
He probably made it, but Icouldn't work for a guy who
valued profit over his people.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And so that's.
It happens too often, and ifyou take care of your people,
you're going to get the profit.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
You are.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
But sometimes it's a hard lesson for people to learn.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, 100%.
And you know similar thingswith me.
Just, you know people, you knowrun, you know be executive and
you know fire.
All these people I'm like, well, let's just, they're brilliant
people, let's repurpose them,let's find a place for them.
And you know you can't saveeveryone.
But I mean you can do a lot andwe did.
I mean we took this big groupthat was under one of our
(12:10):
projects and really.
But yeah, that went down aspiral for me because I just
don't believe in that.
You know you try to work asmuch as you can to keep
everybody employed.
If they've done a good job,just because they made a little
money, the project's over,figure out how to hold them out
and don't lose good people untilthe next project starts, you
(12:30):
know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes, and so one of the things down in Waco, what
I've told my administrativeassistant and the guy that's the
business manager, I said I wantduring my time here I know it's
not long, it's only threemonths I want to get to know
every staff person in the church.
I want to spend some time withevery person.
Now I'm going to meet with thepastors obviously more
frequently, but I want to get toknow every person because I
just want to know what they do.
I want to know how they feel.
I want to know their concerns.
(12:59):
I want to know about theirfamily.
I just want to know about them,and it's easy to just focus on
the goals and the mission andreally not know what's going on
in people's lives.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And so we have a choice.
I know it takes time to do that, but people will really be
loyal if they know you careabout them.
You care about not just theirproduction, but you care about
their person.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And so the question is as a leader, how are we
showing that we might be sayingit, but do we really take time
to do it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, the talk afterwards made me think.
I knew I had a thought that,yeah, over the weekend I just
spoke at a bridge buildingconference as the keynote, so
I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I share some war stories from you.
I forgot about your bridgebuilding.
That's what.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I did over the weekend, talked to you at a big
conference for somebody, a bigcompany, on that, so anyway,
just made me think of it beforeI forgot to tell you that.
So anyway.
So this Jeremiah here, now, theway it's laid out, it tells a
story of you know, he knew thatBabylon was going to come.
(14:12):
It was sort of the way Iunderstood it.
It was sort of words of goodand words of bad, sort of do
this but expect this, right, andso it was sort of a good and
bad.
And then it tells the wholestory of the, that, um, the, the
taking over of Jerusalem, right, the downfall, and but then it
(14:32):
ends with poems at the end orsomething.
And that's what made me wonderif that's what rolled into, uh,
limitations, you know, goingthrough that, because that's
sort of the alphabet poems orwhatever they call it.
You know where they do that.
So so that was a unique one.
So I sort of pieced thosetogether and I just figured I'd
ask your thought on that beforewe go too far down this rabbit
(14:53):
hole.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well, one thing about the prophets that's pretty
consistent is that, even thoughit might just be the last
sentence or the last half achapter in their book, they
always want to leave a messageof hope.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And that's pretty consistent with all the prophets
, and some have more hope thanothers, but there's always a
message of hope, like, okay,this is going to happen, but
this is not the end.
You're you know, the bad thingdoesn't have to be the final
chapter.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And so that's a pretty consistent.
It's not just through theprophets, it's through the Bible
.
Things are gonna happen, butthe bad thing doesn't have to be
the final chapter, it doesn'thave to be the final chapter of
the company, it doesn't have tobe the final chapter of your
life.
And so Jeremiah was big on that, and all the prophets were big
(15:45):
on that, Even though it wasreally sad what was happening
with the destruction ofJerusalem.
You think about a city, thismassive city, and the Babylonian
army came in and literally justtore down leveled it to the
ground and deported the people,not everybody.
(16:06):
Some people stayed in the land,but the city was just in
shambles, these big, massivestones that some of them were as
big as this room right here,they were gone.
I mean they just were tumbled.
And just to watch that and knowyou try to tell people, hey, if
you want to keep doing whatyou're doing, this is going to
(16:26):
be the result and you knowthey're not going to change and
you can just see in your heartand your spirit the consequences
of their actions and you can'tdo anything about it.
It's like we've all been on thefreeway, okay, we've all done
this.
We're driving down the freewayand the lanes that we're going
(16:47):
in are clear as anything.
But on the opposite side, goingthe other direction, is a wreck
, okay, and the line is piled upfor miles.
Well, five miles down the road,you can't stop and tell the
people hey there's a wreck,you're going to have to wait for
(17:08):
a while.
It's like that with Jeremiah andother prophets.
They were trying to warn thepeople for a long time.
Hey, turn back to God, let'sget about the mission, let's
focus on God being the God.
And they didn't listen and theconsequences were what they were
, which is really tragic.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Listen and the consequences were you know what
they were which is really tragic, but they ended Jeremiah with
hope because they invited theking back right to sit at the
table.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think, right, yeah, exactly right at the very end,
and so, anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
That was very symbolic, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
right, you know, I don't know if Well, it's at the
very end of the book and theking who was deported.
He gets to sit at the king'stable, eat a bit of food and
it's like, okay, this is bad,but there's going to be some
hope for the people, there'sgoing to be a restore.
The people were deported.
(18:03):
They were there for 70 years.
That's a long time.
Some people were born inBabylon and they died in Babylon
.
They never got to see Jerusalem, they never got to go back, and
then when the people went back,they built the temple, but it
was a while before we have aNehemiah coming and help rebuild
the walls, and so that city wasin shambles for a long time and
(18:25):
just the devastation livingaround that devastation how
depressing is that.
And I haven't met too manypeople that like disorder in
their lives.
We like order and we likethings clean and that kind of
thing, but they lived in a citythat was just rubble for a while
(18:47):
, and so Jeremiah's saying no,this is not the way the story
ends this is not theway the story ends.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so Jeremiah, chapter 29,.
Verse 11 is maybe one of themost quoted verses in the Old
Testament.
The most quoted verses in theOld Testament and this is a
(19:12):
powerful verse.
He's writing to the people thatwere there in Babylon and he
says for I know the plans I havefor you, declares the Lord,
plans to prosper you and not toharm you.
Plans to give you a hope and afuture.
I've seen that verse quoted inso many different contexts and
(19:32):
what a great message for leaders.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Because just think about what was happening with
COVID a couple years ago.
Thank goodness we're behindthat past, all that, but there's
going to be times when timesare tough in business.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And the question is as a leader I'm not saying we
have to be Pollyannish, no, wedon't have to be fake, but the
question is are we going to givehope to our people?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, you have to cast that vision, that little
glimmer that the future isbright, you know, and keep
dangling that carrot to motivatepeople to keep going.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That's exactly right, and so that's what Jeremiah was
doing.
He said hey, I know thishappened.
Okay, I know this is where youare, but there's going to be a
hope and a future if you relyupon the Lord, and so I think
that's a great leadershipprinciple to hold out to people
in difficult times in difficulttimes.
(20:31):
And so the leader a good leaderholds on to the vision of
whether things are good, whetherthings are bad.
You know, they keep the vision,and that's what Jeremiah was
trying to do the whole time istrying to keep the people
focused on the vision ofworshiping God.
They didn't do it and theconsequences were disastrous and
(20:54):
he said okay, you're going toget through this and there's
going to be a bright futureahead of you.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
So yeah, just a little glimmer of hope.
So.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Glimmer of hope and restoration.
And you know, sometimes we have, as we have to make difficult
decisions like laying off people, cutting our budget, cutting a
project line product line, youknow something downscaling.
But even when we have to makethose tough decisions, the
question is are we going to be aperson of doom and gloom or are
(21:26):
we going to be a person of hopein the future?
John Maxwell said it reallywell.
He said everything rises andfalls on leadership, and the
leader of the organization setsthe tone for that.
It's not just your words, it'syour tone of your voice, it's
your actions.
There's so much about yourpersona.
So much about your persona iscommunicated nonverbally, and so
(21:50):
that's really, really importantfor the leader.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about lamentations.
Yeah, you bet Lamentations.
Yeah, I said that right.
So this is sort of a poeticexpression of all the sorrow and
the mourning and thedestruction, really of the city,
of the city of Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That is correct.
And Lamentations if you look atit and read it in a certain way
, you can see that it reallyfocuses a lot on the
consequences of negativeleadership, and so there's
always consequences, whetherit's negative or positive
(22:36):
leadership, and so the writerwas trying to encourage the
people to be faithful to God.
So in a non-biblical sense it'slike are you faithful to your
vision?
Are you faithful to yourmission?
And so Lamentations was justlamenting over the fact that
they weren't and the sorrow theyexperienced because of bad
decisions.
(22:56):
Over Now.
This didn't happen in like aday or a week or a year.
It happened over time, ofgenerations of time.
And so just thinking about that, think about the companies that
are not willing to embrace newtechnology.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And they make a decision.
That decision might not affectthem for the next year, two,
five years, but it might affectthem five years from now because
they made a decision about no,we're not going to upgrade our
computers, or we're not going touse AI, or we're not going to
do this or we're not going to dothat, and the consequences can
(23:33):
be significant down the road.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
I saw Lamentations as one ofthose things that you know
leaders sort of has toacknowledge that.
You know we fail sometimes.
It was my.
We went down this path, likeyou said, you know, and as bad
as it is, there's still we canregroup from this.
(23:58):
You know we can perseverethrough all our challenges and
come out on top, and you knowthat perseverance through the
hard times is what really spoketo me on this chapter.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, and one of the things that I think we can learn
from this even though we didn'treally see it in the Bible, and
that is accountability andtransparency with leaders.
And so if we make a baddecision, in whatever category,
are we going to own it?
Are we going to try to justblame it on someone else?
(24:30):
And it's too often happens thatwe make a bad decision, affects
someone's life or this or jobor performance or whatever, and
we point fingers instead ofsaying you know what?
I made a bad call on that,that's my fault, I own it.
I'm really sorry.
Let's regroup and let's alllearn from that.
(24:52):
And that takes a good leader toadmit that.
Now.
It doesn't mean you don't haveto face the consequences of that
decision, but people willrespect you if you just actually
admit that, hey, I made a baddecision and we didn't see that
in the Bible.
They just kept doing what theywere doing and unfortunately,
(25:13):
they experienced some really sadconsequences of that.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Right, and it says in there, lamentations 3-40,.
Let us examine our ways andtest them and let us return to
the Lord.
And I thought that was a uh uhone that you know you can look
at accountability.
You know, reflection of, ofmaybe a pathway went down.
How many times have you heardof companies that maybe went
down a path and and, uh, itdidn't work out?
(25:40):
You know, and, or this projector a new vendor or something
like that, and and you had toflip around 100% and said, all
right, we made a mistake.
We're going back to how many, Imean, there's been big
businesses lately that have donethis and and uh, I'm not going
to really get into it, but theybig marketing ads and different
things, like they went, wait asecond.
You know, uh, we lost everybody.
(26:01):
You know, let's go back to uh,you, we thought this was going
to work.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, we made a mistake and it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So there's been a lot of stuff in there.
I just thought that one reallyspoke to me on that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, but sometimes leaders are afraid to make
mistakes, yeah, and so becausethey're paralyzed, and then they
don't make hard decisions.
I was just in a conversationwith someone yesterday about a
leader and I won't say who,because that wouldn't be fair.
They're unwilling to make harddecisions and it's like no,
(26:34):
you're the leader, you need tomake hard decisions.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Tell them to call me.
I got them.
I love that I can take it on.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But part of being a leader.
And here's the thing if you arein the leadership position, the
people that are around you okay, are you training them to make
hard decisions, or are theyalways deferring to you?
(27:15):
Are they always training themto make hard decisions?
Are they always deferring toyou?
So to me, that's part of a goodleader is, you know, we train
our people, our assistants orco-manager, whatever it may be
Are they afraid to make harddecisions?
And I've said this just not toolong ago Decisions have to be
made about an organization, bigor small.
That's just part of it.
The question is, who gets tomake them?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
And if you have a person in a leadership role that
is unwilling to make decisions,maybe they don't need to be in
that role.
They might be in the wrong seaton the bus, you know.
And so you have to think okay,how can I use that talent, maybe
in another area of theorganization?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Exactly right.
And then I was trying to figureout when Lamentations maybe got
.
You know all these poems gotwrote and you know I think it
was written in the morning.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I knew that was coming.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I can see it on your face.
I had to change.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
We just have to transition to dad jokes.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
We do.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Okay, so here's the thing.
What's a tree's favorite datingapp?
A tree's favorite dating app.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Bark something right.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Timber.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Timber, all right.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh, so we were in Louisville.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I'm so sad my buttons don't work here.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, I know we were at my nephew's house a little
after Christmas and they have adog, dee Dee, just a great dog.
I mean this dog is reallyawesome, but she is so cuddly
she will start leaning on youand then they say, watch out,
she's going to timber and shejust falls.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
It just timbers over.
I love those dogs.
Oh my gosh, they come crashingdown.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, just to make sure we're all clear, I'm going
to put my glasses on.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh boy, oh boy.
I got to get my buttons going.
I'll work on that.
I'll see if I can't get themgoing by next week.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Okay, so how did Reese eat her ice cream?
How did Reese eat her ice cream?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Withers, spoon your buttons.
We maybe need to get a newcontrol board or something.
Something, I mean, we're reallymissing.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I think our audience is saying where are the buttons?
Maybe I'll have to figure thatout by far.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I mean, people have askedus why.
You know that's.
Why do I like dad jokes?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
right.
You know why do you know?
Why do you tell them?
Why do you like?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
them and I said that's just the way how I roll,
it's just how I roll.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Can I do?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
something.
Yeah, go ahead, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
No, no, that's going to be bad.
So my wife she makes someawesome food and she has this
one recipe for Jell-O that usesbaby food.
I'm being serious, this is nota joke.
It's like orange Jell-O, babyfood, apricots or mandarin
oranges or something.
It's really delicious.
But what brand of baby food dopirates prefer for their pirate
(30:28):
babies?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I like pirate jokes, gerber.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Gerber, yes, we are missing the third person of the
podcast, and that is the buttons.
I know right, you know severalyears ago I had a hot rod pickup
.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You did.
I did have a hot rod Very badto the bone pickup, yeah it was
a 55 Ford F100 351 ClevelandCorvette rear end.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It was a really nice truck and I had that for a lot
of years.
But I was in a car club, theChristian Classic Cruisers, and
for a while I was their DJ.
Okay, but I had to take acourse on learning how to be a
DJ, but I barely scratched thesurface.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Maybe we should just end on that.
Yeah, we can.
We can give them a, give them alittle replete reprieve this
week, you know, just to let themoff the hook.
So I see you looking, you'regonna hold off, right?
Yeah, I'm gonna hold off, Ican't I can't just stop.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You know, I understand, I just don't want to
.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
If you go back and listen to our New Year's Eve
show, that was pretty much alljokes the whole time.
So like it or hate it, if youlike dad jokes, we actually had
some good ones that time, yeah,so driving back and forth to
Waco.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay.
So if you're driving back andforth to Waco, so if you're
driving back and forth to Waco,there's a little town that has
the world's tiniest wind turbineexhibit.
Honestly, I'm not a big fan.
Maybe we should end on that.
Maybe we should end in fiveminutes.
Yeah, we probably should.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Everybody's like before.
You did that joke.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It was really good.
Just talk about the Bible.
Yeah, we probably should have,but you know everybody's like
before you did that.
It was really good, just talkabout the Bible.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, check us out biblicalleadershipshowcom and
come out see Dr Posey do alittle taco around the Waco area
.
I know we have some peopleacross the world but especially
we've got some in Texas downhere.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, and if you can't do that, it's online at.
First Methodist Waco and I'dlove to have your comment.
Send me an email.
Send it to thebiblicalleadershipshowcom.
Email text us whatever it takes, and we'd love to have your
prayer requests or dad jokesplease.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes, exactly right, that'd be, nice.
All right, check us outbiblicalleadershipshowcom and Dr
Posey, take us out.
Make it a great day.
Thank you,
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