September 11, 2023 • 44 mins
Ready to dive into the complex ecommerce partner landscape?
Join us as Ivan Stefanovski, Director of Client Success and Partnerships at Calashock, offers an exciting deep dive into the world of e-commerce partnerships. His insights, stemming from his vast experience on both the tech and agency side of the e-commerce ecosystem, shed light on how these partnerships have evolved, particularly in the face of the e-commerce growth surge following the COVID pandemic.
No stone is left unturned as we navigate the journey of finding the right partners for merchants. The conversation places equal relevance on budget and functionalities while stressing the significance of thoroughly vetting potential partners before jumping into a partnership. Ivan also explains how Calashock serves as a bridge, connecting merchants with the ideal partners and providing them with a plethora of options to choose from.
As for merchants, get ready to amplify your efficiency!
Ivan shares some invaluable advice on how to identify the value in technology partners and the ways in which merchants can maximize the benefits of tech platforms for greater autonomy in their operations.
With an intimate understanding of the importance of good data in tracking success and the usefulness of tech stack worksheets, Ivan offers a comprehensive guide for merchants looking to upgrade their operations. So, gear up for a thought-provoking conversation that will leave you with a wealth of knowledge to navigate the complex ecommerce landscape!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, welcome to the Big Commerce podcast.
Hello and welcome to a brandnew episode of the Big Commerce
podcast.
I'm your host, luigi, and intoday's episode I'm very excited
to introduce you to IvanStefanovsky.
Ivan's the director of clientsuccess and partnerships at
Calisoc, based out of Torontooffice in Canada, and in today's
episode we talk about thecurrent partner landscape within
(00:24):
the e-commerce ecosystem.
Now we go about choosing whichtech partners to recommend to
our merchants.
What are the must have or mustevaluate tech partners that all
our merchants are introduced to,and what are the benefits of
working with a tech agencypartner as opposed to either
self-serve or working with justa standard systems integrator.
(00:46):
I hope you enjoy the show.
Hi, ivan, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hey, Luigi, Pleasure to be on here finally.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So I'm just going to introduce you because obviously
you're the first time you'rejoining us.
So Ivan's, one of my colleaguesLooks after North America, or
you look after North Americaprincipally, but also you are
responsible for partnerships atCalisoc and we've been working
together for many years.
We met when you were at one ofour other partners, rewind, and
(01:21):
I think one of the things thatI've been really excited about
with your involvement in thepodcast is bringing that
experience from a tech side tothe kind of agency and also
merchant side.
So you're in a really goodposition because you've kind of
done both.
You've been on the agency side,where you are now, and
obviously you've been to thetech side as well.
So why don't you just kind of aquick introduction to our
(01:46):
listeners about?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
you and your experience?
Absolutely, yeah.
So hey everyone.
Again, ivan, I've been in theSaaS and tech space for over a
decade now, started out, really,with being I always say a one
platform man, so essentially Ikind of stuck to one platform,
was an expert at it, then movedinto the e-commerce space with,
(02:09):
as Luigi said, rewind they doawesome backups for your
e-commerce stores butessentially I became an expert
in that platform as well.
Through that I met Luigi andessentially ended up at Calisoc.
I'm the director of clientsuccess and partnership.
So that encompasses a fewthings.
It essentially includes sales,absolutely Partnerships, and I'd
(02:32):
say both for North America andEurope.
Sales as well.
I help out in Europe whenneeded and generally I'm
involved in the process.
And then, in terms of customersuccess, I'm trying to follow
that clients are happy in thelong run.
I also deal with customersupport in terms of escalations.
So multi-faceted role, but it'sreally been interesting moving
(02:54):
from one platform and beingexpert in that, moving to an
agency and having over 75partners and not necessarily
being an expert in all theplatforms, but knowing enough to
be dangerous, let's say so kindof a jack of all trades.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I think one of the great things is where you say,
fine, jack of all trades, butactually your expertise lies in
that partnerships I think thatterm can be banded around quite
easily and loosely, but actuallyto kind of be a good
partnerships manager and toreally nurture the relationships
and see when there's a good fitbetween a partner and an agency
(03:29):
, and then a partner and aclient, is not so easy.
And so really I thought to kindof work with Veroni to ease you
in, I guess, to the podcast,because you'll be joining us on
future ones Now that we talkabout partnerships today.
Yeah, so, like you said, we'vegot a vast ecosystem of
partnerships that we've builtover the years.
That you've certainlyaccelerated in the last 12, 18
(03:52):
months.
So I guess two of the questionsthe first one is kind of how
have you seen the partnerlandscape within e-commerce
evolve over time?
And obviously we've had COVID,which has accelerated the
e-commerce growth and conversely, has meant that e-commerce has
(04:12):
become a bit more of a primespot for partners and entrants
to come in.
But I think also from mypersonal experience, I'm seeing
kind of partnerships growing,whereas before it was, you know,
maybe you had a tech platformand maybe some SIs.
Now you've got those.
You still got those SIs, butyou've also got those partners
(04:33):
that invest in the relationship,invest in the training, invest
in the marketing and so on.
So how would you, from yourperspective, have a minute on
both sides, describe how thelandscape has evolved over time
and what's it like today?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, yeah, Great question.
I'll just kind of prelude thatwith some more information.
In terms of my past, I wasdoing partnerships at Clipfolio,
which was a dashboardingplatform, connects through APIs
to a lot of different datasources and essentially allows
you to create dashboards thatyou can track in essentially
real time.
But essentially partnerships inthat space were really working
(05:10):
with clients who had their ownclients, so that would be
marketing agencies and othertypes of agencies that were
creating, let's say, dashboardsfor their clients.
So it was kind of it wasn't asmuch of a two-way street as here
.
I really see the e-commercebasis really being two-way
because essentially, you know,you've seen the e-commerce
(05:31):
industry in terms ofpartnerships really grow in the
last few years.
So that means it's, you know,for me really impressive, first
of all, really vast.
There's hundreds, maybethousands of potential partners
out there.
It's always of always alwaysimproving, just kind of adds
choice.
And where I kind of mentionedthat two-way street is we kind
(05:52):
of do support each other.
You know, here it isn't reallyonly about helping, let's say, a
tech partners clients for anagency.
For us, it's really abouthelping tech partners clients.
If they send us leads, they'realso sending leads to our tech
partners and essentiallyspeaking to them about our
clients' needs and if they canhelp with those, you know,
facilitating demos and so on.
(06:12):
So it's really a two-waysupportive street I find in
e-commerce and it's just moreevolving and more vast as time
goes on.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
For my I mean, we've also been involved in project
rescues whereby and obviouslymore so in the e-commerce space
than maybe in any of our otherplatforms but let's not say that
that's the exception wherebyyou know, somebody has worked
with an agency or a freelancerwho was maybe and I know that's
(06:41):
what it means to hold techpartners back in their由 that you
would reach out to the has hadthe belief that they're able to
execute on a particulardeliverable using a platform and
then find that actually, theyweren't able to get over the
line.
And we obviously come in withwith our expertise, with our
relationships with the techsupport team as well, which is a
(07:02):
really I think that's a reallyimportant piece as well because,
like I said, it is two-way.
It isn't just saying about youknow kind of we can, we can get
this implementation over theline or we can, you know, get
this integration set up, butit's also making sure that we've
got the relationships with thepeople and we're speaking the
same language, about saying thatthis is what we've done so far,
this is what we need to achieve, and maybe this is that little
(07:25):
piece that we need some helpwith.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Fine.
Partnerships could be kind of,you know, described also as kind
of relationships, but it is.
You know, I've always believedanyway, partnerships are two-way
, they are not one way.
So I completely agree with youthat it's a two-way street.
But why do we have thosepartnerships and why do we have
those relationships and why dowe invest time, sometimes money,
in those relationships throughthings like training and
(07:51):
certification?
Because ultimately, we want tomake sure that the end user is
on a website of our merchant whowas invested in that particular
product and is seeing somepositive ROI.
So we're seeing some growth,some high conversions, whatever
those things are.
So, yeah, so 100%, kind of,would agree with you that that
(08:12):
two-way street is reallyimportant.
I think that's really evolvedover the last few years and, as
you say, with so many moreplatforms coming into the market
, not only do we have to beselective about who we work with
, but also, I think the techpartners need to make sure that
they are maintaining an elementof support to their agency
(08:32):
partners to say, look, you know,we want to make sure that our
product is being used in theright way, is being implemented
in the right way, that ourcustomers are getting the ROI
that we expect them to get, andin order to do that, we need to
make sure that you know theproduct well enough to be able
to undertake the work.
And we saw this with animplementation in Ireland where
(08:53):
one of our partners had beenimplemented on the previous
e-commerce website basicallywasn't being used, so it was a
search and merchandisingplatform.
Actually, no, sorry, at thetime it was just a merchandising
platform and it wasn't beingused because it hadn't been
implemented correctly.
And that's just a prime exampleof them having spent money on
an implementation that wasn'tdone correctly, spent money with
(09:16):
the platform that wasn't beingused, and then, when it came up
to kind of re-platform in theMontabie commerce in Seneca
where you're using, you know,partner X, is that no, we're
going to get rid of that becauseit's never worked.
And so what's the problem there?
Is it because the product hasnever worked or it wasn't
implemented correctly in thefirst place?
And so that's a reallyimportant thing to kind of also
(09:36):
when we choose partners, andobviously for the partners is
making sure that that knowledgeis trickling down to the people
that matter, that need to use it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree there.
And you know, adding merchantsto the mix, I think it's a
three-way street.
You know they're notnecessarily involved with the
partnership landscape but youknow they absolutely have an
effect on it and they're reallywho we're looking out for.
So you know I've come from acustomer facing background.
You know all of my time in SaaS, so the customer always comes
(10:06):
first.
I remember one of my old bossesat Clefoglio had a picture of,
you know, a bunch of customerson the wall and you know it's
kind of saying these are numberone.
You know this is what we do ourwork for and I fully agree with
that.
So in that sense, you have tomake the right decision for the
client and I think they, themerchants, have to be selective
in that process as well Because,again, there's so many
(10:27):
solutions out there, so manyoptions.
You know maybe there's a cheaperoption, maybe there's an option
for the same price that hasmore features, maybe they're.
So you know it's really good toshop around to really see who
you're working with.
Of course, an agency reallyhelps with that process.
Because we have thatrelationship with the tech
partners, we can facilitate aquicker demo.
Sometimes, if there's a supportticket, we can speed that up.
(10:48):
Speak to someone else.
So those relationships areimportant there.
But you know things arebecoming more competitive.
There's more players in thespace, it's harder to choose the
right solution, but there'salso more right solutions out
there.
So vetting is absolutelyimportant.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I think I kind of I've seen from the way that you
deal with clients as well, thatnot every partner is the right
partner for that merchant.
So kind of just touching whatyou said there.
You know, if there's threecompanies that do broadly the
same thing, not all three ofthem are going to be a good fit
for that customer.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And you know things come in there in terms of
budgets.
You know, is a platform maybetoo small or too big?
You know, if it has too manyfeatures that they don't need
right now, maybe it's tooexpensive for what they need or
out of their budget.
So things like that will matteras well.
As you know, the relationshipside matters.
You know kind of how, can, howam I working with the team?
How does the team respond to me?
(11:43):
You know, do I get what I need?
You know, is this a good futurepartner and future?
You know company to be workingwith.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That's such an important part thing you just
said, because last year weworked on a project with a
partner and fundamentally theplatform was too in, too
advanced for the customer needsand actually to scale it back
was would have been too muchwork, if that makes sense.
(12:13):
So it was kind of almost toogood just because it didn't need
to go into that granular detailfor the function that it was
that it was intended for.
So when you speak to tomerchants and when you're
evaluating which partners torecommend, what are the key
(12:33):
factors that you would use todecide on right?
I'm going to put partner A, band D in front of my merchant,
my customer.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
And you know, kind of.
I think that the root of thatquestion is that we do give them
options.
So for us it is important togive clients and merchants that
option of choosing the rightpartner for them and for their
current needs, versus, let's say, having exclusive partnerships
and pigeon holding them down.
You know, one specific partnerfor all needs.
(13:06):
You know they're not going tofit all budgets, they're not
going to fit all functionalities, so it's good for us to have
those options.
Again, I think it's what's theright thing to do for the client
and they come first.
So all solutions should bebased off that.
But really, aside from that, youknow, if you're working with,
you know a bunch of partners andhave created good relationships
with them and their experts inthe space, kind of like, our
(13:28):
solutions are a lot of the timesa merchant will mention hey,
you know I was thinking of X andY and Z and they'll oftentimes
be partners of ours.
If they're not, I'm happy toreach out, form a relationship.
Make sure that you know we'reworking together for that
merchant.
But really, you know we'll givethem the option.
So we'll have a few partners ineach space and generally we'll
let them know of each partner.
(13:50):
Again, we don't pigeon, holdthem anywhere.
So, you know, at that pointit's for them to decide hey, I
like this one, you know, I wantto have a demo with this one,
maybe not this one, and we kindof leave it up to them.
And I think that choice, justin general, working with a
merchant, you know, being anagency is important because we
cater to their needs.
You know, we don't kind of say,hey, do this absolutely in
terms of expertise and sayingthis is our suggestion, this is
(14:13):
our advice, because of X, y andZ, but in a sense of making the
decisions for them, I think therelationship is much better with
we leave it up to them.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And also the reason why kind of you do what you do
is it's all about ROI.
Like I did this when I'mspeaking to merchants or
pitching, is that one of thegreat things about what we do is
that you can't you very rarelyget a second chance because it's
all about ROI.
It is saying Look, if you spend30, 40, 50,000 pounds with us
(14:44):
on Avery platform, there's areason why and you're going to
get that ROI.
So you know.
You're not going to say, well,look, you know it didn't work,
so we'll just you know, we'lljust go to next agency in the
next platform.
Like, you need to make surethat the agency and the tech
partners that you've selectedwill give you that ROI that you
need.
So it costs you X and it'sgoing to bring you in X times
(15:05):
two or X 1.5, whatever your KPIsare.
So I think that's really goodbecause it means that you have
to A, obviously work very hardto make sure that you meet those
metrics.
But B is very difficult to kindof pull the wool over somebody's
eyes when you're talking data,when you're talking numbers,
when you're talking you know.
This is why you should belooking at the search and merge
platform.
This is why you should belooking at this backup platform
(15:30):
data backup.
There's so many ways that youcan.
I lost my train of thoughtthere.
There's so many ways that youcan sell the benefits to
merchants, but fundamentallywhat they're interested in is
okay.
How much extra revenue orprofit is depending on what you
measure predominantly is thisgoing to bring in?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, I mean the questions come up there Will the
tool help them sell more?
Because not all tools areexactly for that purpose.
There's tools that will savethem money or cut down costs
versus making them more money.
So these things have todefinitely be considered.
And I always say I'm biased, Icome from a data background.
I spent five and a half years atCropfolio and they were a data
(16:14):
platform, essentially, and thenvery data centered.
But essentially it all startsat the root of starting to track
your data.
You have to start tracking data, even if it's bad.
A lot of merchants won't starttracking because the data's not
where they want it yet and theydon't want that on paper or
whatever the reasons might be.
But essentially, once you starttracking, you see where you're
at and from there you can makeimprovements.
(16:36):
You can A, b test differentefforts and see what effect they
had on those bottom line youknow, on that bottom line, on
the KPIs and then from theredecide, hey, we need to stop
this because it was negative toour bottom line and we need to
do more of this because it waspositive.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
On that data piece.
You obviously work with somepartners as well that do manage
data, but I think and we spokeabout this briefly when we were
on a webinar about how you canbe inundated and overloaded with
data or different data pointsso I think it's really important
that kind of merchants pick thekey data points that they're
looking at and then make surethat the partners that they're
(17:13):
working with that text thatthey've put together or we've
put together with them, kind ofhelps to, like you say, drive
those numbers up or down,depending what direction you
want them to go into.
And one of the tools that weuse internally me when I do the
discoveries, discovery workshopsand you when you do your
clients success calls isbasically the tech stack
(17:36):
worksheet.
So what we do in there is.
So it's a very simple Excelspreadsheet with five columns.
The first column is kind of thearea.
So what type of kind of?
What's the department I guessthat that tech platform comes
into?
Is it front end, is it search,is it data, is analytics, is it
email marketing?
Whatever that department is?
(17:57):
Then the second column islisting out that tech partner by
the name.
So ShipwrexQ, cleavu, omnisend,gorgeous, whatever it is.
And then the third one hasthree options Do we keep it, do
we discuss it or do we remove it?
And then the fourth one is fornew partners.
(18:17):
We're adding it, so it's a newone.
So what we do is we take areview of their existing tech
landscape.
So these are the partners thatthey've.
These are tech companies,because not all of them are
partners.
I guess these are the techplatforms that we got integrated
into our website.
And then we also have themonthly cost, which then
calculates to like an annualcost.
So in the first, on one of thekind of on the spreadsheet,
(18:39):
there's then three furthercolumns there's the existing
cost, there's the additionalcost and then there's the final
cost.
So in the existing cost, itlists at how much you're
spending today with those techpartners.
The second column, which is theadditional cost, is for any new
tech partners or tech platforms.
Rather, what's the additionalcost?
So you know, if we're bringingin gorgeous, you know $300 a
(19:02):
month, whatever it is, so ofcourse, a year, $3600.
And then the final one is basedon the ones that we've removed
and add what is the new finalcost.
So you basically have thosecolumn one and column three,
which is existing cost and itcould be, you know, with big
commerce and all the otherplatforms.
Let's say, $80,000 a year andthe new cost could be $60,000 a
(19:25):
year, it could be $110,000 ayear.
And that's where the ROI elementcomes in, as you've said before
, because it's saying, right,what you know, if we're spending
more money, how much more, youknow what's the extra revenue
that we need to get in order todeem this a success.
Or if we're saving revenue,great, it means that ROI is
going to be even higher becauseeven if we don't sell any more,
(19:47):
we're actually saving some money.
So that's a really good toolthat we use because it gives you
a snapshot of all of the techplatforms, their monthly and
annual cost and actually weather, because I've had it before
where it's like, well, we've hadthat platform for three years
and you know, we've I've evengot merchants.
We've got merchants that haveplatforms installed and are not
(20:09):
being used, I guess, like theone that I said in Ireland
because either they've notcanceled the subscription or
it's just it's not working andthey've kind of forgotten about
it.
So it's a really goodopportunity when reviewing kind
of the tech platforms to, youknow, to kind of say, right,
these are the ones that we'regoing to get rid of and these
are the ones that potentiallywe're going to be bringing.
(20:29):
We saved one of our merchants inCanada I think it was in the
region.
Well, in the end it was onlyabout $10,000, maybe slightly
less, but we were able to get alot more tech partners in and
platforms in, because actuallywe got rid of about two or three
platforms that were excessivelyexpensive for what they were
(20:51):
doing.
So one of them was a live chatsystem that I think cost about
$250 a month and we replacedthat with gorgeous, which was
slightly more expensive, but italso offered them the knowledge
base, also offered them theemail and the social media
channel management forcommunication and customer
support.
(21:11):
So it's a really goodopportunity to kind of revisit
everything.
And so I find it reallyinteresting when I'm speaking to
people, because it just givesan opportunity to kind of
evaluate everything.
So that's kind of and we covereverything.
I mean I'm trying to think kindof from our, from the tech
partners that we work with,we've covered everything from
(21:32):
what analytics, email, marketing, marketing in general, so like
just do no system, jamification,search and merge.
Front end obviously, e-commercebeing big commerce, customer
service, front end like or likefront end management, like show
gone page builder, for example.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I don't know, you tell me, because obviously
you've got the relationship witha lot more of them.
Yeah, absolutely, I candefinitely pitch in there.
It goes to things likeaccessibility solutions, payment
solutions, product informationmanagement, tax solutions,
specific payment solutions forB2B, checkout CMSs or content
management systems, cros.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Feed management as well.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, Exactly, absolutely.
The connections andintegrations between platforms
are huge and being able to getthat routed Again, I'm biased
because I have that background,I clip folio but that getting
that data flowing and having onesource of truth and so on is
absolutely essential.
Again, not all solutions, notall partner solutions, are for
all merchants well, depending ontheir size.
(22:36):
Sometimes they're not there yet, sometimes they're too big for
some solutions.
But it really really is worthdoing a tech partnership
landscape discussion with anagency like ourselves doesn't
have to be us, but we do providethat consulting and that
strategic approach as well andthen kind of taking a look at
the whole landscape and justgoing through each vertical, as
(22:57):
you said, what are you doing forpayment solutions?
What are you doing for emailmarketing?
What are you doing for backupsfor your store?
That kind of ties in with theconversation previously of is
this either saving me money orcosting me money?
With a solution like Rewind,again, I'm Bias because I used
to work there.
But essentially with a solutionlike that, it's not necessarily
(23:18):
your favorite cost, let's say,because it's not getting used.
Let's say, if your storedoesn't go down, you don't need
to back it up and restore itfrom a backup.
But if you do and if productsget deleted, if your store goes
down, you don't want any appbefore that one.
So it sometimes takes thinkingoutside the box to really
(23:41):
consider these costs.
But we've had merchants when Iwas at Rewind they lost over
$100,000 in sales over a day ortwo days when their store went
down for extra amount of reasonsand essentially having Rewind
at that time probably would havepaid itself off for the
lifetime of that company.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And just touching on that, the other thing that I
would say I struggle with, butsometimes I need to make
evidence to merchants, is thatokay?
So just talking about Rewind,because I know that also they
are a close partner of ours, sothe and they're actually quite
unique anyway.
So, but basically okay.
So you know, for one reason oranother, the data's gone and you
(24:22):
don't have a backup.
So not only are you now losingsales, but how many man hours,
personnel's are you spendingexactly restoring that data?
And that's something that Imean.
You know, as an agency, we selltime, so you know it's
something that we struggle withas well, but fundamentally is a
business that sells products.
You don't think of the timeaspect.
But let's say you've got fourpeople working two days flat out
(24:45):
to restore data and I don'tknow, you know whatever.
You know the average hourlyrate is for the personnel, you
know the office.
Would it that growth times forpeople times or whatever it is?
You know, two days, that's alot of money and you kind of
think actually, yeah, you knowwhat, having rewind so within
you know a couple of minutes, 15minutes we can be back up and
(25:06):
running is just a no-brainer.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, and just to add there Generally it's not just
restoring the data from myexperience at least, a rewind
when data is deleted.
You know these companies I mean, let's say, a big commerce or
Shopify or whoever's out therethey don't necessarily, they
won't restore your store's data.
They have it in some backup.
You know that's Work outside oftheir general scope.
(25:29):
So unless you're a hugecustomer for them that they
don't want to lose, they won'treally restore that for you.
So when it's deleted it's lost.
So generally you have torebuild it and that's you know.
You know the same cost as whenyou paid your project initially,
probably even more withinflation.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So Exactly exactly and, like you say, it's a bit of
an insurance policy there, yeah, to make sure you can keep
trading, and so we've got.
We've spoken, obviously, aboutthe partner landscape, I think,
and I don't know whether we'vetouched on this, but because
e-commerce has become a lot morecompetitive in the last three
years, because Merchants arefine will needs to find more
(26:07):
unique and innovative ways tostand out from a competition
that might be selling basicallythe same product To the same
target market and in the sameway at the same price.
We have seen this increase inin partners and tech platforms
coming in because, you know,it's kind of it that they're
Creating products thatdifferentiate either the
offering or the market orwhatever, to help those
merchants stand out and grow.
(26:28):
So one of the partners that I'mI really Really like is just do
know, I think it's a phenomenal.
So I'm trying not to be biased,but I think you know there's a
couple of that just come to mindthat are the go-to that we talk
about.
So rewind is definitely one ofthem.
We, you know, I try to tellmerchants, if you're gonna work
with us, like one of the firstapps you need, you need to
install, is rewind, but alsothere's another handful that you
(26:52):
know.
I kind of think, right, youneed to look at these.
And one of them is just do know, because I this parts of it
that just offer features that,to be honest, who we could
probably develop ourselves.
So, for example, you know, likea Free delivery countdown kind
of widgets.
So it's saying spend another 17pounds or you know $23 to get
free delivery.
The reason why it makes thingseasier for us is we don't have
(27:14):
to develop that widget, whichobviously saves time and money
for the merchant, butfundamentally it means that
there's actually a companybehind that widget that you're
going to be, you know, paying alicense fee for that's improving
and maintaining and supportingthat product.
So if there's ways to make thatlittle widget even better and,
(27:35):
for example, just do know youcan even segment so you can say,
right, if this customer is fromthe USA, then we'll offer them,
you know, free delivery widgetover $50 or whatever it is.
If they may be from Canada,then maybe we do offer it, but
it's a higher threshold or maybewe don't know.
We hide that widget.
Well, we've replaced it withsomething else, and so you know
how much are you going to costus as an agency to scope out and
to develop that product for you.
(27:56):
And actually it's available offthe shelf.
So we've seen this increase inthe number of tech partners and
I think you know Merging cansometimes be overwhelmed and
that's potentially what leads tomerchants saying, well, you
know, we've got it, still wedon't use, only because you know
it served a purpose at thattime and it, you know, they just
kind of didn't stay on top ofit or it just wasn't maintained
or it fizzled out or whatever.
And so I think sometimes youneed to cut through, you know,
(28:21):
the the, the, the, the fog, Iguess, to kind of say, right,
what is it?
I forgot the word, but cutthrough the noise, sorry, to
kind of, you know, really findthose partners that that will
definitely, or most definitely,add value to your business.
And, as I said, just do youknow, is one of them any that
you've kind of.
I mean shipper HQ is another onefor me.
(28:41):
We're very lucky that shipperHQ comes out of the box with big
commerce enterprise anyway.
So 99% of our customers, ourclients, have shipper HQ out of
the box by virtue of the factthat they are on the box, by
virtue of the fact that they areon a big commerce enterprise
subscription.
So and shipper HQ know that,you know I'm a big fan of their
(29:02):
product because it solves somany problems for for merchants.
But what are maybe some thatyou're really fond of and you
probably say to a merchant likeyou've got to?
You know, consider if notnecessarily this type of this
particular product, then it'sthis type of product.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So, whether it's a P or something like that, yeah,
it's a great question and youknow, I think it's it's
multifaceted.
I'm really.
I think you have to look atwhat's right for the merchant.
You know Some merchants are notin the same vertical, same
industry.
The nature of their businesscan sometimes be different.
So you know, just thinkinghistorically, fine, you know
that's going to change in thefuture, but B2B has historically
(29:41):
not been, you know, too muchtouch.
It's kind of, you know theychoose their own products,
they'll kind of order awholesale and so on.
So maybe a chat system, theyare something like gorgeous.
Historically I think this isall changing, moving forward.
But I think you know, maybethat isn't as relevant there.
You know, just a silly example,but you know there's a bunch of
(30:03):
examples like that.
So I think you really have tolook at the nature of the
merchant's business and decidewhat's right for them.
But, for example, within someverticals, when where there's
unique players, kind of like youmentioned rewind, you know from
when I work there I there isn'ta competitor on their level and
doing what they do.
(30:23):
So you know, if you're lookingat backups, you know I think
there wants to look at.
So that's where I would makesome recommendations.
Or a platform like gorgeous.
You know we've heard of Zendeskbeing used, but gorgeous is
specifically made for thee-commerce space.
I would say it's reallyconducive to the e-commerce
business nature and essentiallyis really made for for those use
(30:47):
cases, versus a, let's say,zendesk, where it's a little bit
more for support for any typeof company, any type of
ticketing system, any type ofchat.
So I think where you have astandout player is potentially
where I would recommend.
But really, you know, ifSomeone's business, a merchant's
business, doesn't have support,people don't reach out.
Maybe you know they put chat ontheir site, they put emails out
(31:09):
, they put their phone numberand no one reaches out to them
and they're just doing businesswith them.
You know, for them I stillwouldn't maybe recommend
gorgeous.
So I think you know it'smultifaceted.
But where you have those uniqueplayers, where there isn't
solutions like it or they'refilling a space that hasn't been
touched before, I think that'smaybe where I would make some
(31:29):
recommendations.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
They're not necessarily new, unique, but
where I found that we are usingthem a lot more is, or who I
found were using a lot more, isshogun page builder, and the
commerce has got a page builderthat comes out of the box, but I
just find that it give we justfind that it gives a lot more
flexibility and functionality toTo a merchant, especially the
ones that maybe are migratingoff, something like element, woo
(31:56):
commerce and WordPress that areused to Elementor and the big
commerce.
Page builder just doesn'treally Cut it in the same way.
So you're looking at somethinglike Shogun.
I mean, even the last sixmonths, eight months, that
product has evolved from beingkind of good to really good and
obviously you know we we have apartner that was shogun have a
(32:17):
bit of an inside scoop and seesome of the things that can be
rolling out in the next fewmonths.
And even there it's just it's.
I'm really excited with thethings that are happening and I
think products like that givethe merchant more freedom
Because it allows them to buildour pages, it allows them to
manage the content better andthey're not relying on us as an
(32:37):
agent say can you make as anagency to you know, to make some
small tweaks or to add somecontent.
You know, at the end of the day, whenever we've and you've
heard this on the pictures thatwe've been on Whenever we build
a website, we build it in a waythat gives us much freedom and
independence to the merchant aspossible.
So, yes, you know, we havemerchants that work with us
month in, month out, but that'sa choice.
(32:58):
It's not because we'veconstrained them in the way that
we built the website, that onlywe can make those changes.
And that might sound ludicrous,but we get inquiries from
people that say I need somebodyto manage the, you know the home
page because it's allhard-coded, or you know I'm not
able to go in and change the thenecessary code.
So you know that I think is atech platform as well, is a
(33:20):
really important one because,fine, they're not unique, but I
think it just can add so muchvalue.
And the price, the cost ofthese tech platforms is going up
.
I think that we have to be awareof the fact that.
You know, as we're recordingthis in September, there is, you
know, kind of economicuncertainty and doom and gloom,
and so obviously, you know,merchants are Watching the purse
(33:42):
strings a lot more there.
Maybe you know starting to torain things in and try to reduce
the TCO, the total cost ofownership.
But I think something like youknow a Shogun and, like you said
, also with the chat, againyou're involving people there.
You're, you're, you're eitherautomating things or you're
(34:03):
having people you know Respondby live chat, whatever it's a
time element.
So actually Having the platformlike Shogun in there, having the
platform like maybe gorgeous orsomething like that, where
somebody has, you know, thereare some automations in there,
it's actually an efficiency,yeah.
So yes, you're going to bespending a few hundred dollars a
month, but overall I'm prettysure that if you ran the numbers
(34:26):
, going back to a point arounddata, you probably find that
that platform is making youmoney, not necessarily, you know
, increasing the sales that much, but actually reducing maybe a
cost.
Because you're saying somebodycan put together a landing page,
can duplicate a landing page inhalf an hour, an hour, or as if
you've got to go to an agencyYou've got us, you know, prepare
the, the, the spec.
You've got to, you know, sendthe work over, then the agency
(34:48):
has to put it together, it's gotto be tested.
Or this thing where you just goin with Shogun pulling the
components, you know, pop thecontent in and off you go.
So sometimes that ROI isn'tnecessarily on the upside is
saying we've seen an increase inour sales, but actually it's an
efficiency, saying we've seen areduction in our cost somewhere
, despite the fact that actuallywe're paying for this, for this
(35:10):
platform.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, I totally agree there and I think you kind of
hit on a key point earlier someof that freedom.
I think that's really reallykey here, because you know
there's things that merchants dobest.
For example, if a merchant isworking really well within a
niche, they have a communitythere, you know, and they're
kind of really pushing theagenda there.
They know how to create contentbest for that community.
(35:33):
So maybe that's somewhere wherethey'd appreciate the freedom
and where, you know, to help anagency, they know what they're
doing there.
Let them do what they do best.
Let them create their owncontent and deliver it, or
whether it's, you know Kind ofthe design of a front page
through something like Shogun orwhatever it might be.
But if they know that reallywell and they're kind of, you
know, have their own initiative.
(35:53):
If we want to do things likethat, I think it's important to
give them that freedom, you knowkind, as you said, because of
the speed, since essentially,they'll be able to make those
changes faster.
They won't necessarily have toinvolve an agency.
You know we're all people.
It takes time to reply to anemail, to receive it, check with
the team and so on, and so Ithink being able to do that
themselves, we'll make them moresatisfied, first with the
(36:15):
platform as well as with theagency, funny as that might
sound, but you know you've giventhem that freedom.
They feel more empowered, theycan make the changes they feel
they need to, versus Feelingthat they have to wait for them,
even if it's a minute, butessentially having that oh I
asked for this and until Ireceive it moment.
So I think that's a huge factor,but also just kind of, you know
(36:36):
, leveraging their expertise.
You know, if they're reallygood at this, let them do it.
You know they might do itbetter than your agency, or at
least they want to do it, so youcan allow them to do that.
Again, clients come first, so Ithink that's that's really huge
Through partner solutions,giving that flexibility and
freedom through, maybe anautomation where, instead of
(36:57):
tagging tickets manually throughsomething, through a help
platform, where you can set upauto tags through something like
gorgeous and not spend yourtime manually Tagging but
actually spend your timeproviding the customer service
that you do best, then I thinkthat's a big win as well.
So you know it's it reallytakes a detailed look at at
these platforms and whatbenefits you want to achieve and
(37:19):
how those platforms will helpyou achieve those.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
So just finishing on that then.
So if we want to make sure thata merchant is maximizing their
investment in that tech platform, is leveraging the tools and
the functionality and thefeatures that come out of the
box with that particularplatform, how important is it
for a merchant to work with apartner rather a partner of a
(37:47):
tech platform, so an agencypartner, than not working with
an agency partner of that techplatform?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's a tough question.
I think a lot of it comes downto budget.
A lot of merchants, again, theyknow how to do what they do
best, whether it's manufacturingproducts, whether it's having a
product and creating a greatcommunity around it and having
so much buzz around that,whatever that might be but they
generally do what they do best.
(38:19):
This probably isn't somethingthat they do best because it's
not part of their day-to-day interms of knowing which tech
partners are leaders in thisspace and which ones.
To even start considering foryour projects things like that,
or having the relationships witha lot of the tech partners,
knowing the ROIs, for example,and what differences different
(38:40):
solutions can provide and aswell.
A lot of these things gettechnical.
Unless a team is, or a merchantis, so big where they want to
now get their own people andtheir own developers to learn
these things, so that that'ssomething that they have, and a
value prop of their team is thatthey can develop well on these
platforms and so on.
(39:00):
Unless you're of that sizewhich generally my experience
says to be a really, really bigcompany unless you're of that
size, it's probably not in yourinterest to do things yourselves
.
Without an agency, you don'thave that leadership, that
expertise, your team willprobably have to start doing
some technical elements.
But before they start doingthem, they have to start
(39:20):
learning them and get trained,and this is something an agency
has Just speeds up that process.
We have those relationships, wehave knowledge of the best
in-class platforms.
We have the knowledge of havingdone something before and
knowing what the best way to doit is, having tested various
options and then being able tosuggest for sure again, we won't
(39:41):
pigeonhole them down a certainsolution, but we have that
experience that unless you spendthe time in that space, you
cannot get.
Unless you want to take thattime and spend it.
If you just want to getsomething done, get migrated
over to big commerce, get a bigcommerce store built, get chats
and a backup set up for yourstore, get an integration with
(40:04):
various platforms to get pipedinto big commerce All of those
things unless you want to learnthem yourselves.
I think it only makes sense toget an agency to do that unless
you think by having someoneemployed in your company they
can learn that over the long runand do it better than agencies
or at least on the same levelcutting costs.
It's essential.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It's not just about having the expertise to make
sure that it's implementedcorrectly, but it's also having
the expertise to make sure thatthe correct partners and tech
platforms are introduced to themerchants.
They say, look, leave this onebecause it's too complex, it's
out of budget, maybe it's toosmall, it's too cheap, it's not
going to do enough, it's notreally suited for you.
(40:51):
So it's been able to againfilter the various tech partners
to suit the requirements ofthat merchant.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, exactly, because otherwise, if you're
jumping in the space at least myexperience from jumping into
new spaces okay, let's see whothe players are.
Okay, let's see what eachplayer is about, let's see how
much each player costs, so youcan kind of skip all of that.
And from a trusted agency,hopefully you build a trusted
relationship.
But from a trusted agency, getthe advice of hey, maybe a
(41:20):
partner is going throughrepivoting or maybe they're
adding a specific functionalityto their platform, and you have
that info and letting the clientknow, hey, they're not ready
yet or they're not big enoughfor you or they're too small or
whatever it might be.
But essentially having thatexpertise is saving the merchant
.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Good, really interesting.
Okay, so I mean you're kind oftechnically a guest, but
obviously you're soon to be aco-host.
So, as you know, verena likesto ask kind of what book or
podcast our guests are readingor listening to.
Are you listening to anythingat the moment?
Podcast wise.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not necessarily listening.
I've tended to be even audiobooks.
I've tended to be more of aphysical copy person.
I like having a physical bookeven versus reading on a Kindle
or something like that.
But because of that I kind ofstick to my books.
This is an e-commerce book, butI've read 12 or 12 more rules
(42:21):
for life order from Chaos byJordan Peterson and I think he's
great.
He has a lot of insights.
A lot of the things he says aregreat, at least in my opinion
great rules that we can apply orbenefits we can apply to our
lives.
And I like that idea, the kindof incremental improvements.
(42:41):
I've read the Atomic Habitsrecently, just kind of going
through some of the big books.
There again that incrementalchange over a long run will make
huge benefits in our lives.
So that's kind of the key I gotout of that.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But I'd recommend One percent change.
Yeah, exactly, all right.
Well, that was usual link tothose in the show notes.
Well, yvonne, thanks very muchfor taking the time to be on the
podcast.
Obviously, you'll be joining usas co-hosts moving forward,
which I'm super excited aboutSame here Same here A lot more
(43:17):
to come.
Yeah, thanks very much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah thank you and your expertise as well.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Absolutely, chat more soon.
Brilliant Thanks, yvonne,bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theBigCommerce podcast.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on your favourite podcastplatform and make sure you're
following us on social media onInstagram and on LinkedIn.
If you've got ideas orsuggestions for future episodes,
please send us an email, infoat thebiggcommercepodcastcom or
(43:45):
on our social media platforms.
Hi, welcome to the Big Commerce podcast.
Hello and welcome to a brandnew episode of the Big Commerce
podcast.
I'm your host, luigi, and intoday's episode I'm very excited
to introduce you to IvanStefanovsky.
Ivan's the director of clientsuccess and partnerships at
Calisoc, based out of Torontooffice in Canada, and in today's
episode we talk about thecurrent partner landscape within
(00:24):
the e-commerce ecosystem.
Now we go about choosing whichtech partners to recommend to
our merchants.
What are the must have or mustevaluate tech partners that all
our merchants are introduced to,and what are the benefits of
working with a tech agencypartner as opposed to either
self-serve or working with justa standard systems integrator.
(00:46):
I hope you enjoy the show.
Hi, ivan, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hey, Luigi, Pleasure to be on here finally.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So I'm just going to introduce you because obviously
you're the first time you'rejoining us.
So Ivan's, one of my colleaguesLooks after North America, or
you look after North Americaprincipally, but also you are
responsible for partnerships atCalisoc and we've been working
together for many years.
We met when you were at one ofour other partners, rewind, and
(01:21):
I think one of the things thatI've been really excited about
with your involvement in thepodcast is bringing that
experience from a tech side tothe kind of agency and also
merchant side.
So you're in a really goodposition because you've kind of
done both.
You've been on the agency side,where you are now, and
obviously you've been to thetech side as well.
So why don't you just kind of aquick introduction to our
(01:46):
listeners about?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
you and your experience?
Absolutely, yeah.
So hey everyone.
Again, ivan, I've been in theSaaS and tech space for over a
decade now, started out, really,with being I always say a one
platform man, so essentially Ikind of stuck to one platform,
was an expert at it, then movedinto the e-commerce space with,
(02:09):
as Luigi said, rewind they doawesome backups for your
e-commerce stores butessentially I became an expert
in that platform as well.
Through that I met Luigi andessentially ended up at Calisoc.
I'm the director of clientsuccess and partnership.
So that encompasses a fewthings.
It essentially includes sales,absolutely Partnerships, and I'd
(02:32):
say both for North America andEurope.
Sales as well.
I help out in Europe whenneeded and generally I'm
involved in the process.
And then, in terms of customersuccess, I'm trying to follow
that clients are happy in thelong run.
I also deal with customersupport in terms of escalations.
So multi-faceted role, but it'sreally been interesting moving
(02:54):
from one platform and beingexpert in that, moving to an
agency and having over 75partners and not necessarily
being an expert in all theplatforms, but knowing enough to
be dangerous, let's say so kindof a jack of all trades.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I think one of the great things is where you say,
fine, jack of all trades, butactually your expertise lies in
that partnerships I think thatterm can be banded around quite
easily and loosely, but actuallyto kind of be a good
partnerships manager and toreally nurture the relationships
and see when there's a good fitbetween a partner and an agency
(03:29):
, and then a partner and aclient, is not so easy.
And so really I thought to kindof work with Veroni to ease you
in, I guess, to the podcast,because you'll be joining us on
future ones Now that we talkabout partnerships today.
Yeah, so, like you said, we'vegot a vast ecosystem of
partnerships that we've builtover the years.
That you've certainlyaccelerated in the last 12, 18
(03:52):
months.
So I guess two of the questionsthe first one is kind of how
have you seen the partnerlandscape within e-commerce
evolve over time?
And obviously we've had COVID,which has accelerated the
e-commerce growth and conversely, has meant that e-commerce has
(04:12):
become a bit more of a primespot for partners and entrants
to come in.
But I think also from mypersonal experience, I'm seeing
kind of partnerships growing,whereas before it was, you know,
maybe you had a tech platformand maybe some SIs.
Now you've got those.
You still got those SIs, butyou've also got those partners
(04:33):
that invest in the relationship,invest in the training, invest
in the marketing and so on.
So how would you, from yourperspective, have a minute on
both sides, describe how thelandscape has evolved over time
and what's it like today?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, yeah, Great question.
I'll just kind of prelude thatwith some more information.
In terms of my past, I wasdoing partnerships at Clipfolio,
which was a dashboardingplatform, connects through APIs
to a lot of different datasources and essentially allows
you to create dashboards thatyou can track in essentially
real time.
But essentially partnerships inthat space were really working
(05:10):
with clients who had their ownclients, so that would be
marketing agencies and othertypes of agencies that were
creating, let's say, dashboardsfor their clients.
So it was kind of it wasn't asmuch of a two-way street as here
.
I really see the e-commercebasis really being two-way
because essentially, you know,you've seen the e-commerce
(05:31):
industry in terms ofpartnerships really grow in the
last few years.
So that means it's, you know,for me really impressive, first
of all, really vast.
There's hundreds, maybethousands of potential partners
out there.
It's always of always alwaysimproving, just kind of adds
choice.
And where I kind of mentionedthat two-way street is we kind
(05:52):
of do support each other.
You know, here it isn't reallyonly about helping, let's say, a
tech partners clients for anagency.
For us, it's really abouthelping tech partners clients.
If they send us leads, they'realso sending leads to our tech
partners and essentiallyspeaking to them about our
clients' needs and if they canhelp with those, you know,
facilitating demos and so on.
(06:12):
So it's really a two-waysupportive street I find in
e-commerce and it's just moreevolving and more vast as time
goes on.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
For my I mean, we've also been involved in project
rescues whereby and obviouslymore so in the e-commerce space
than maybe in any of our otherplatforms but let's not say that
that's the exception wherebyyou know, somebody has worked
with an agency or a freelancerwho was maybe and I know that's
(06:41):
what it means to hold techpartners back in their由 that you
would reach out to the has hadthe belief that they're able to
execute on a particulardeliverable using a platform and
then find that actually, theyweren't able to get over the
line.
And we obviously come in withwith our expertise, with our
relationships with the techsupport team as well, which is a
(07:02):
really I think that's a reallyimportant piece as well because,
like I said, it is two-way.
It isn't just saying about youknow kind of we can, we can get
this implementation over theline or we can, you know, get
this integration set up, butit's also making sure that we've
got the relationships with thepeople and we're speaking the
same language, about saying thatthis is what we've done so far,
this is what we need to achieve, and maybe this is that little
(07:25):
piece that we need some helpwith.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Fine.
Partnerships could be kind of,you know, described also as kind
of relationships, but it is.
You know, I've always believedanyway, partnerships are two-way
, they are not one way.
So I completely agree with youthat it's a two-way street.
But why do we have thosepartnerships and why do we have
those relationships and why dowe invest time, sometimes money,
in those relationships throughthings like training and
(07:51):
certification?
Because ultimately, we want tomake sure that the end user is
on a website of our merchant whowas invested in that particular
product and is seeing somepositive ROI.
So we're seeing some growth,some high conversions, whatever
those things are.
So, yeah, so 100%, kind of,would agree with you that that
(08:12):
two-way street is reallyimportant.
I think that's really evolvedover the last few years and, as
you say, with so many moreplatforms coming into the market
, not only do we have to beselective about who we work with
, but also, I think the techpartners need to make sure that
they are maintaining an elementof support to their agency
(08:32):
partners to say, look, you know,we want to make sure that our
product is being used in theright way, is being implemented
in the right way, that ourcustomers are getting the ROI
that we expect them to get, andin order to do that, we need to
make sure that you know theproduct well enough to be able
to undertake the work.
And we saw this with animplementation in Ireland where
(08:53):
one of our partners had beenimplemented on the previous
e-commerce website basicallywasn't being used, so it was a
search and merchandisingplatform.
Actually, no, sorry, at thetime it was just a merchandising
platform and it wasn't beingused because it hadn't been
implemented correctly.
And that's just a prime exampleof them having spent money on
an implementation that wasn'tdone correctly, spent money with
(09:16):
the platform that wasn't beingused, and then, when it came up
to kind of re-platform in theMontabie commerce in Seneca
where you're using, you know,partner X, is that no, we're
going to get rid of that becauseit's never worked.
And so what's the problem there?
Is it because the product hasnever worked or it wasn't
implemented correctly in thefirst place?
And so that's a reallyimportant thing to kind of also
(09:36):
when we choose partners, andobviously for the partners is
making sure that that knowledgeis trickling down to the people
that matter, that need to use it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree there.
And you know, adding merchantsto the mix, I think it's a
three-way street.
You know they're notnecessarily involved with the
partnership landscape but youknow they absolutely have an
effect on it and they're reallywho we're looking out for.
So you know I've come from acustomer facing background.
You know all of my time in SaaS, so the customer always comes
(10:06):
first.
I remember one of my old bossesat Clefoglio had a picture of,
you know, a bunch of customerson the wall and you know it's
kind of saying these are numberone.
You know this is what we do ourwork for and I fully agree with
that.
So in that sense, you have tomake the right decision for the
client and I think they, themerchants, have to be selective
in that process as well Because,again, there's so many
(10:27):
solutions out there, so manyoptions.
You know maybe there's a cheaperoption, maybe there's an option
for the same price that hasmore features, maybe they're.
So you know it's really good toshop around to really see who
you're working with.
Of course, an agency reallyhelps with that process.
Because we have thatrelationship with the tech
partners, we can facilitate aquicker demo.
Sometimes, if there's a supportticket, we can speed that up.
(10:48):
Speak to someone else.
So those relationships areimportant there.
But you know things arebecoming more competitive.
There's more players in thespace, it's harder to choose the
right solution, but there'salso more right solutions out
there.
So vetting is absolutelyimportant.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I think I kind of I've seen from the way that you
deal with clients as well, thatnot every partner is the right
partner for that merchant.
So kind of just touching whatyou said there.
You know, if there's threecompanies that do broadly the
same thing, not all three ofthem are going to be a good fit
for that customer.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And you know things come in there in terms of
budgets.
You know, is a platform maybetoo small or too big?
You know, if it has too manyfeatures that they don't need
right now, maybe it's tooexpensive for what they need or
out of their budget.
So things like that will matteras well.
As you know, the relationshipside matters.
You know kind of how, can, howam I working with the team?
How does the team respond to me?
(11:43):
You know, do I get what I need?
You know, is this a good futurepartner and future?
You know company to be workingwith.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That's such an important part thing you just
said, because last year weworked on a project with a
partner and fundamentally theplatform was too in, too
advanced for the customer needsand actually to scale it back
was would have been too muchwork, if that makes sense.
(12:13):
So it was kind of almost toogood just because it didn't need
to go into that granular detailfor the function that it was
that it was intended for.
So when you speak to tomerchants and when you're
evaluating which partners torecommend, what are the key
(12:33):
factors that you would use todecide on right?
I'm going to put partner A, band D in front of my merchant,
my customer.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
And you know, kind of.
I think that the root of thatquestion is that we do give them
options.
So for us it is important togive clients and merchants that
option of choosing the rightpartner for them and for their
current needs, versus, let's say, having exclusive partnerships
and pigeon holding them down.
You know, one specific partnerfor all needs.
(13:06):
You know they're not going tofit all budgets, they're not
going to fit all functionalities, so it's good for us to have
those options.
Again, I think it's what's theright thing to do for the client
and they come first.
So all solutions should bebased off that.
But really, aside from that, youknow, if you're working with,
you know a bunch of partners andhave created good relationships
with them and their experts inthe space, kind of like, our
(13:28):
solutions are a lot of the timesa merchant will mention hey,
you know I was thinking of X andY and Z and they'll oftentimes
be partners of ours.
If they're not, I'm happy toreach out, form a relationship.
Make sure that you know we'reworking together for that
merchant.
But really, you know we'll givethem the option.
So we'll have a few partners ineach space and generally we'll
let them know of each partner.
(13:50):
Again, we don't pigeon, holdthem anywhere.
So, you know, at that pointit's for them to decide hey, I
like this one, you know, I wantto have a demo with this one,
maybe not this one, and we kindof leave it up to them.
And I think that choice, justin general, working with a
merchant, you know, being anagency is important because we
cater to their needs.
You know, we don't kind of say,hey, do this absolutely in
terms of expertise and sayingthis is our suggestion, this is
(14:13):
our advice, because of X, y andZ, but in a sense of making the
decisions for them, I think therelationship is much better with
we leave it up to them.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And also the reason why kind of you do what you do
is it's all about ROI.
Like I did this when I'mspeaking to merchants or
pitching, is that one of thegreat things about what we do is
that you can't you very rarelyget a second chance because it's
all about ROI.
It is saying Look, if you spend30, 40, 50,000 pounds with us
(14:44):
on Avery platform, there's areason why and you're going to
get that ROI.
So you know.
You're not going to say, well,look, you know it didn't work,
so we'll just you know, we'lljust go to next agency in the
next platform.
Like, you need to make surethat the agency and the tech
partners that you've selectedwill give you that ROI that you
need.
So it costs you X and it'sgoing to bring you in X times
(15:05):
two or X 1.5, whatever your KPIsare.
So I think that's really goodbecause it means that you have
to A, obviously work very hardto make sure that you meet those
metrics.
But B is very difficult to kindof pull the wool over somebody's
eyes when you're talking data,when you're talking numbers,
when you're talking you know.
This is why you should belooking at the search and merge
platform.
This is why you should belooking at this backup platform
(15:30):
data backup.
There's so many ways that youcan.
I lost my train of thoughtthere.
There's so many ways that youcan sell the benefits to
merchants, but fundamentallywhat they're interested in is
okay.
How much extra revenue orprofit is depending on what you
measure predominantly is thisgoing to bring in?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, I mean the questions come up there Will the
tool help them sell more?
Because not all tools areexactly for that purpose.
There's tools that will savethem money or cut down costs
versus making them more money.
So these things have todefinitely be considered.
And I always say I'm biased, Icome from a data background.
I spent five and a half years atCropfolio and they were a data
(16:14):
platform, essentially, and thenvery data centered.
But essentially it all startsat the root of starting to track
your data.
You have to start tracking data, even if it's bad.
A lot of merchants won't starttracking because the data's not
where they want it yet and theydon't want that on paper or
whatever the reasons might be.
But essentially, once you starttracking, you see where you're
at and from there you can makeimprovements.
(16:36):
You can A, b test differentefforts and see what effect they
had on those bottom line youknow, on that bottom line, on
the KPIs and then from theredecide, hey, we need to stop
this because it was negative toour bottom line and we need to
do more of this because it waspositive.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
On that data piece.
You obviously work with somepartners as well that do manage
data, but I think and we spokeabout this briefly when we were
on a webinar about how you canbe inundated and overloaded with
data or different data pointsso I think it's really important
that kind of merchants pick thekey data points that they're
looking at and then make surethat the partners that they're
(17:13):
working with that text thatthey've put together or we've
put together with them, kind ofhelps to, like you say, drive
those numbers up or down,depending what direction you
want them to go into.
And one of the tools that weuse internally me when I do the
discoveries, discovery workshopsand you when you do your
clients success calls isbasically the tech stack
(17:36):
worksheet.
So what we do in there is.
So it's a very simple Excelspreadsheet with five columns.
The first column is kind of thearea.
So what type of kind of?
What's the department I guessthat that tech platform comes
into?
Is it front end, is it search,is it data, is analytics, is it
email marketing?
Whatever that department is?
(17:57):
Then the second column islisting out that tech partner by
the name.
So ShipwrexQ, cleavu, omnisend,gorgeous, whatever it is.
And then the third one hasthree options Do we keep it, do
we discuss it or do we remove it?
And then the fourth one is fornew partners.
(18:17):
We're adding it, so it's a newone.
So what we do is we take areview of their existing tech
landscape.
So these are the partners thatthey've.
These are tech companies,because not all of them are
partners.
I guess these are the techplatforms that we got integrated
into our website.
And then we also have themonthly cost, which then
calculates to like an annualcost.
So in the first, on one of thekind of on the spreadsheet,
(18:39):
there's then three furthercolumns there's the existing
cost, there's the additionalcost and then there's the final
cost.
So in the existing cost, itlists at how much you're
spending today with those techpartners.
The second column, which is theadditional cost, is for any new
tech partners or tech platforms.
Rather, what's the additionalcost?
So you know, if we're bringingin gorgeous, you know $300 a
(19:02):
month, whatever it is, so ofcourse, a year, $3600.
And then the final one is basedon the ones that we've removed
and add what is the new finalcost.
So you basically have thosecolumn one and column three,
which is existing cost and itcould be, you know, with big
commerce and all the otherplatforms.
Let's say, $80,000 a year andthe new cost could be $60,000 a
(19:25):
year, it could be $110,000 ayear.
And that's where the ROI elementcomes in, as you've said before
, because it's saying, right,what you know, if we're spending
more money, how much more, youknow what's the extra revenue
that we need to get in order todeem this a success.
Or if we're saving revenue,great, it means that ROI is
going to be even higher becauseeven if we don't sell any more,
(19:47):
we're actually saving some money.
So that's a really good toolthat we use because it gives you
a snapshot of all of the techplatforms, their monthly and
annual cost and actually weather, because I've had it before
where it's like, well, we've hadthat platform for three years
and you know, we've I've evengot merchants.
We've got merchants that haveplatforms installed and are not
(20:09):
being used, I guess, like theone that I said in Ireland
because either they've notcanceled the subscription or
it's just it's not working andthey've kind of forgotten about
it.
So it's a really goodopportunity when reviewing kind
of the tech platforms to, youknow, to kind of say, right,
these are the ones that we'regoing to get rid of and these
are the ones that potentiallywe're going to be bringing.
(20:29):
We saved one of our merchants inCanada I think it was in the
region.
Well, in the end it was onlyabout $10,000, maybe slightly
less, but we were able to get alot more tech partners in and
platforms in, because actuallywe got rid of about two or three
platforms that were excessivelyexpensive for what they were
(20:51):
doing.
So one of them was a live chatsystem that I think cost about
$250 a month and we replacedthat with gorgeous, which was
slightly more expensive, but italso offered them the knowledge
base, also offered them theemail and the social media
channel management forcommunication and customer
support.
(21:11):
So it's a really goodopportunity to kind of revisit
everything.
And so I find it reallyinteresting when I'm speaking to
people, because it just givesan opportunity to kind of
evaluate everything.
So that's kind of and we covereverything.
I mean I'm trying to think kindof from our, from the tech
partners that we work with,we've covered everything from
(21:32):
what analytics, email, marketing, marketing in general, so like
just do no system, jamification,search and merge.
Front end obviously, e-commercebeing big commerce, customer
service, front end like or likefront end management, like show
gone page builder, for example.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I don't know, you tell me, because obviously
you've got the relationship witha lot more of them.
Yeah, absolutely, I candefinitely pitch in there.
It goes to things likeaccessibility solutions, payment
solutions, product informationmanagement, tax solutions,
specific payment solutions forB2B, checkout CMSs or content
management systems, cros.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Feed management as well.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, Exactly, absolutely.
The connections andintegrations between platforms
are huge and being able to getthat routed Again, I'm biased
because I have that background,I clip folio but that getting
that data flowing and having onesource of truth and so on is
absolutely essential.
Again, not all solutions, notall partner solutions, are for
all merchants well, depending ontheir size.
(22:36):
Sometimes they're not there yet, sometimes they're too big for
some solutions.
But it really really is worthdoing a tech partnership
landscape discussion with anagency like ourselves doesn't
have to be us, but we do providethat consulting and that
strategic approach as well andthen kind of taking a look at
the whole landscape and justgoing through each vertical, as
(22:57):
you said, what are you doing forpayment solutions?
What are you doing for emailmarketing?
What are you doing for backupsfor your store?
That kind of ties in with theconversation previously of is
this either saving me money orcosting me money?
With a solution like Rewind,again, I'm Bias because I used
to work there.
But essentially with a solutionlike that, it's not necessarily
(23:18):
your favorite cost, let's say,because it's not getting used.
Let's say, if your storedoesn't go down, you don't need
to back it up and restore itfrom a backup.
But if you do and if productsget deleted, if your store goes
down, you don't want any appbefore that one.
So it sometimes takes thinkingoutside the box to really
(23:41):
consider these costs.
But we've had merchants when Iwas at Rewind they lost over
$100,000 in sales over a day ortwo days when their store went
down for extra amount of reasonsand essentially having Rewind
at that time probably would havepaid itself off for the
lifetime of that company.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And just touching on that, the other thing that I
would say I struggle with, butsometimes I need to make
evidence to merchants, is thatokay?
So just talking about Rewind,because I know that also they
are a close partner of ours, sothe and they're actually quite
unique anyway.
So, but basically okay.
So you know, for one reason oranother, the data's gone and you
(24:22):
don't have a backup.
So not only are you now losingsales, but how many man hours,
personnel's are you spendingexactly restoring that data?
And that's something that Imean.
You know, as an agency, we selltime, so you know it's
something that we struggle withas well, but fundamentally is a
business that sells products.
You don't think of the timeaspect.
But let's say you've got fourpeople working two days flat out
(24:45):
to restore data and I don'tknow, you know whatever.
You know the average hourlyrate is for the personnel, you
know the office.
Would it that growth times forpeople times or whatever it is?
You know, two days, that's alot of money and you kind of
think actually, yeah, you knowwhat, having rewind so within
you know a couple of minutes, 15minutes we can be back up and
(25:06):
running is just a no-brainer.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, and just to add there Generally it's not just
restoring the data from myexperience at least, a rewind
when data is deleted.
You know these companies I mean, let's say, a big commerce or
Shopify or whoever's out therethey don't necessarily, they
won't restore your store's data.
They have it in some backup.
You know that's Work outside oftheir general scope.
(25:29):
So unless you're a hugecustomer for them that they
don't want to lose, they won'treally restore that for you.
So when it's deleted it's lost.
So generally you have torebuild it and that's you know.
You know the same cost as whenyou paid your project initially,
probably even more withinflation.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So Exactly exactly and, like you say, it's a bit of
an insurance policy there, yeah, to make sure you can keep
trading, and so we've got.
We've spoken, obviously, aboutthe partner landscape, I think,
and I don't know whether we'vetouched on this, but because
e-commerce has become a lot morecompetitive in the last three
years, because Merchants arefine will needs to find more
(26:07):
unique and innovative ways tostand out from a competition
that might be selling basicallythe same product To the same
target market and in the sameway at the same price.
We have seen this increase inin partners and tech platforms
coming in because, you know,it's kind of it that they're
Creating products thatdifferentiate either the
offering or the market orwhatever, to help those
merchants stand out and grow.
(26:28):
So one of the partners that I'mI really Really like is just do
know, I think it's a phenomenal.
So I'm trying not to be biased,but I think you know there's a
couple of that just come to mindthat are the go-to that we talk
about.
So rewind is definitely one ofthem.
We, you know, I try to tellmerchants, if you're gonna work
with us, like one of the firstapps you need, you need to
install, is rewind, but alsothere's another handful that you
(26:52):
know.
I kind of think, right, youneed to look at these.
And one of them is just do know, because I this parts of it
that just offer features that,to be honest, who we could
probably develop ourselves.
So, for example, you know, likea Free delivery countdown kind
of widgets.
So it's saying spend another 17pounds or you know $23 to get
free delivery.
The reason why it makes thingseasier for us is we don't have
(27:14):
to develop that widget, whichobviously saves time and money
for the merchant, butfundamentally it means that
there's actually a companybehind that widget that you're
going to be, you know, paying alicense fee for that's improving
and maintaining and supportingthat product.
So if there's ways to make thatlittle widget even better and,
(27:35):
for example, just do know youcan even segment so you can say,
right, if this customer is fromthe USA, then we'll offer them,
you know, free delivery widgetover $50 or whatever it is.
If they may be from Canada,then maybe we do offer it, but
it's a higher threshold or maybewe don't know.
We hide that widget.
Well, we've replaced it withsomething else, and so you know
how much are you going to costus as an agency to scope out and
to develop that product for you.
(27:56):
And actually it's available offthe shelf.
So we've seen this increase inthe number of tech partners and
I think you know Merging cansometimes be overwhelmed and
that's potentially what leads tomerchants saying, well, you
know, we've got it, still wedon't use, only because you know
it served a purpose at thattime and it, you know, they just
kind of didn't stay on top ofit or it just wasn't maintained
or it fizzled out or whatever.
And so I think sometimes youneed to cut through, you know,
(28:21):
the the, the, the, the fog, Iguess, to kind of say, right,
what is it?
I forgot the word, but cutthrough the noise, sorry, to
kind of, you know, really findthose partners that that will
definitely, or most definitely,add value to your business.
And, as I said, just do youknow, is one of them any that
you've kind of.
I mean shipper HQ is another onefor me.
(28:41):
We're very lucky that shipperHQ comes out of the box with big
commerce enterprise anyway.
So 99% of our customers, ourclients, have shipper HQ out of
the box by virtue of the factthat they are on the box, by
virtue of the fact that they areon a big commerce enterprise
subscription.
So and shipper HQ know that,you know I'm a big fan of their
(29:02):
product because it solves somany problems for for merchants.
But what are maybe some thatyou're really fond of and you
probably say to a merchant likeyou've got to?
You know, consider if notnecessarily this type of this
particular product, then it'sthis type of product.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So, whether it's a P or something like that, yeah,
it's a great question and youknow, I think it's it's
multifaceted.
I'm really.
I think you have to look atwhat's right for the merchant.
You know Some merchants are notin the same vertical, same
industry.
The nature of their businesscan sometimes be different.
So you know, just thinkinghistorically, fine, you know
that's going to change in thefuture, but B2B has historically
(29:41):
not been, you know, too muchtouch.
It's kind of, you know theychoose their own products,
they'll kind of order awholesale and so on.
So maybe a chat system, theyare something like gorgeous.
Historically I think this isall changing, moving forward.
But I think you know, maybethat isn't as relevant there.
You know, just a silly example,but you know there's a bunch of
(30:03):
examples like that.
So I think you really have tolook at the nature of the
merchant's business and decidewhat's right for them.
But, for example, within someverticals, when where there's
unique players, kind of like youmentioned rewind, you know from
when I work there I there isn'ta competitor on their level and
doing what they do.
(30:23):
So you know, if you're lookingat backups, you know I think
there wants to look at.
So that's where I would makesome recommendations.
Or a platform like gorgeous.
You know we've heard of Zendeskbeing used, but gorgeous is
specifically made for thee-commerce space.
I would say it's reallyconducive to the e-commerce
business nature and essentiallyis really made for for those use
(30:47):
cases, versus a, let's say,zendesk, where it's a little bit
more for support for any typeof company, any type of
ticketing system, any type ofchat.
So I think where you have astandout player is potentially
where I would recommend.
But really, you know, ifSomeone's business, a merchant's
business, doesn't have support,people don't reach out.
Maybe you know they put chat ontheir site, they put emails out
(31:09):
, they put their phone numberand no one reaches out to them
and they're just doing businesswith them.
You know, for them I stillwouldn't maybe recommend
gorgeous.
So I think you know it'smultifaceted.
But where you have those uniqueplayers, where there isn't
solutions like it or they'refilling a space that hasn't been
touched before, I think that'smaybe where I would make some
(31:29):
recommendations.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
They're not necessarily new, unique, but
where I found that we are usingthem a lot more is, or who I
found were using a lot more, isshogun page builder, and the
commerce has got a page builderthat comes out of the box, but I
just find that it give we justfind that it gives a lot more
flexibility and functionality toTo a merchant, especially the
ones that maybe are migratingoff, something like element, woo
(31:56):
commerce and WordPress that areused to Elementor and the big
commerce.
Page builder just doesn'treally Cut it in the same way.
So you're looking at somethinglike Shogun.
I mean, even the last sixmonths, eight months, that
product has evolved from beingkind of good to really good and
obviously you know we we have apartner that was shogun have a
(32:17):
bit of an inside scoop and seesome of the things that can be
rolling out in the next fewmonths.
And even there it's just it's.
I'm really excited with thethings that are happening and I
think products like that givethe merchant more freedom
Because it allows them to buildour pages, it allows them to
manage the content better andthey're not relying on us as an
(32:37):
agent say can you make as anagency to you know, to make some
small tweaks or to add somecontent.
You know, at the end of the day, whenever we've and you've
heard this on the pictures thatwe've been on Whenever we build
a website, we build it in a waythat gives us much freedom and
independence to the merchant aspossible.
So, yes, you know, we havemerchants that work with us
month in, month out, but that'sa choice.
(32:58):
It's not because we'veconstrained them in the way that
we built the website, that onlywe can make those changes.
And that might sound ludicrous,but we get inquiries from
people that say I need somebodyto manage the, you know the home
page because it's allhard-coded, or you know I'm not
able to go in and change the thenecessary code.
So you know that I think is atech platform as well, is a
(33:20):
really important one because,fine, they're not unique, but I
think it just can add so muchvalue.
And the price, the cost ofthese tech platforms is going up
.
I think that we have to be awareof the fact that.
You know, as we're recordingthis in September, there is, you
know, kind of economicuncertainty and doom and gloom,
and so obviously, you know,merchants are Watching the purse
(33:42):
strings a lot more there.
Maybe you know starting to torain things in and try to reduce
the TCO, the total cost ofownership.
But I think something like youknow a Shogun and, like you said
, also with the chat, againyou're involving people there.
You're, you're, you're eitherautomating things or you're
(34:03):
having people you know Respondby live chat, whatever it's a
time element.
So actually Having the platformlike Shogun in there, having the
platform like maybe gorgeous orsomething like that, where
somebody has, you know, thereare some automations in there,
it's actually an efficiency,yeah.
So yes, you're going to bespending a few hundred dollars a
month, but overall I'm prettysure that if you ran the numbers
(34:26):
, going back to a point arounddata, you probably find that
that platform is making youmoney, not necessarily, you know
, increasing the sales that much, but actually reducing maybe a
cost.
Because you're saying somebodycan put together a landing page,
can duplicate a landing page inhalf an hour, an hour, or as if
you've got to go to an agencyYou've got us, you know, prepare
the, the, the spec.
You've got to, you know, sendthe work over, then the agency
(34:48):
has to put it together, it's gotto be tested.
Or this thing where you just goin with Shogun pulling the
components, you know, pop thecontent in and off you go.
So sometimes that ROI isn'tnecessarily on the upside is
saying we've seen an increase inour sales, but actually it's an
efficiency, saying we've seen areduction in our cost somewhere
, despite the fact that actuallywe're paying for this, for this
(35:10):
platform.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, I totally agree there and I think you kind of
hit on a key point earlier someof that freedom.
I think that's really reallykey here, because you know
there's things that merchants dobest.
For example, if a merchant isworking really well within a
niche, they have a communitythere, you know, and they're
kind of really pushing theagenda there.
They know how to create contentbest for that community.
(35:33):
So maybe that's somewhere wherethey'd appreciate the freedom
and where, you know, to help anagency, they know what they're
doing there.
Let them do what they do best.
Let them create their owncontent and deliver it, or
whether it's, you know Kind ofthe design of a front page
through something like Shogun orwhatever it might be.
But if they know that reallywell and they're kind of, you
know, have their own initiative.
(35:53):
If we want to do things likethat, I think it's important to
give them that freedom, you knowkind, as you said, because of
the speed, since essentially,they'll be able to make those
changes faster.
They won't necessarily have toinvolve an agency.
You know we're all people.
It takes time to reply to anemail, to receive it, check with
the team and so on, and so Ithink being able to do that
themselves, we'll make them moresatisfied, first with the
(36:15):
platform as well as with theagency, funny as that might
sound, but you know you've giventhem that freedom.
They feel more empowered, theycan make the changes they feel
they need to, versus Feelingthat they have to wait for them,
even if it's a minute, butessentially having that oh I
asked for this and until Ireceive it moment.
So I think that's a huge factor,but also just kind of, you know
(36:36):
, leveraging their expertise.
You know, if they're reallygood at this, let them do it.
You know they might do itbetter than your agency, or at
least they want to do it, so youcan allow them to do that.
Again, clients come first, so Ithink that's that's really huge
Through partner solutions,giving that flexibility and
freedom through, maybe anautomation where, instead of
(36:57):
tagging tickets manually throughsomething, through a help
platform, where you can set upauto tags through something like
gorgeous and not spend yourtime manually Tagging but
actually spend your timeproviding the customer service
that you do best, then I thinkthat's a big win as well.
So you know it's it reallytakes a detailed look at at
these platforms and whatbenefits you want to achieve and
(37:19):
how those platforms will helpyou achieve those.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
So just finishing on that then.
So if we want to make sure thata merchant is maximizing their
investment in that tech platform, is leveraging the tools and
the functionality and thefeatures that come out of the
box with that particularplatform, how important is it
for a merchant to work with apartner rather a partner of a
(37:47):
tech platform, so an agencypartner, than not working with
an agency partner of that techplatform?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's a tough question.
I think a lot of it comes downto budget.
A lot of merchants, again, theyknow how to do what they do
best, whether it's manufacturingproducts, whether it's having a
product and creating a greatcommunity around it and having
so much buzz around that,whatever that might be but they
generally do what they do best.
(38:19):
This probably isn't somethingthat they do best because it's
not part of their day-to-day interms of knowing which tech
partners are leaders in thisspace and which ones.
To even start considering foryour projects things like that,
or having the relationships witha lot of the tech partners,
knowing the ROIs, for example,and what differences different
(38:40):
solutions can provide and aswell.
A lot of these things gettechnical.
Unless a team is, or a merchantis, so big where they want to
now get their own people andtheir own developers to learn
these things, so that that'ssomething that they have, and a
value prop of their team is thatthey can develop well on these
platforms and so on.
(39:00):
Unless you're of that sizewhich generally my experience
says to be a really, really bigcompany unless you're of that
size, it's probably not in yourinterest to do things yourselves
.
Without an agency, you don'thave that leadership, that
expertise, your team willprobably have to start doing
some technical elements.
But before they start doingthem, they have to start
(39:20):
learning them and get trained,and this is something an agency
has Just speeds up that process.
We have those relationships, wehave knowledge of the best
in-class platforms.
We have the knowledge of havingdone something before and
knowing what the best way to doit is, having tested various
options and then being able tosuggest for sure again, we won't
(39:41):
pigeonhole them down a certainsolution, but we have that
experience that unless you spendthe time in that space, you
cannot get.
Unless you want to take thattime and spend it.
If you just want to getsomething done, get migrated
over to big commerce, get a bigcommerce store built, get chats
and a backup set up for yourstore, get an integration with
(40:04):
various platforms to get pipedinto big commerce All of those
things unless you want to learnthem yourselves.
I think it only makes sense toget an agency to do that unless
you think by having someoneemployed in your company they
can learn that over the long runand do it better than agencies
or at least on the same levelcutting costs.
It's essential.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It's not just about having the expertise to make
sure that it's implementedcorrectly, but it's also having
the expertise to make sure thatthe correct partners and tech
platforms are introduced to themerchants.
They say, look, leave this onebecause it's too complex, it's
out of budget, maybe it's toosmall, it's too cheap, it's not
going to do enough, it's notreally suited for you.
(40:51):
So it's been able to againfilter the various tech partners
to suit the requirements ofthat merchant.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, exactly, because otherwise, if you're
jumping in the space at least myexperience from jumping into
new spaces okay, let's see whothe players are.
Okay, let's see what eachplayer is about, let's see how
much each player costs, so youcan kind of skip all of that.
And from a trusted agency,hopefully you build a trusted
relationship.
But from a trusted agency, getthe advice of hey, maybe a
(41:20):
partner is going throughrepivoting or maybe they're
adding a specific functionalityto their platform, and you have
that info and letting the clientknow, hey, they're not ready
yet or they're not big enoughfor you or they're too small or
whatever it might be.
But essentially having thatexpertise is saving the merchant
.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Good, really interesting.
Okay, so I mean you're kind oftechnically a guest, but
obviously you're soon to be aco-host.
So, as you know, verena likesto ask kind of what book or
podcast our guests are readingor listening to.
Are you listening to anythingat the moment?
Podcast wise.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not necessarily listening.
I've tended to be even audiobooks.
I've tended to be more of aphysical copy person.
I like having a physical bookeven versus reading on a Kindle
or something like that.
But because of that I kind ofstick to my books.
This is an e-commerce book, butI've read 12 or 12 more rules
(42:21):
for life order from Chaos byJordan Peterson and I think he's
great.
He has a lot of insights.
A lot of the things he says aregreat, at least in my opinion
great rules that we can apply orbenefits we can apply to our
lives.
And I like that idea, the kindof incremental improvements.
(42:41):
I've read the Atomic Habitsrecently, just kind of going
through some of the big books.
There again that incrementalchange over a long run will make
huge benefits in our lives.
So that's kind of the key I gotout of that.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But I'd recommend One percent change.
Yeah, exactly, all right.
Well, that was usual link tothose in the show notes.
Well, yvonne, thanks very muchfor taking the time to be on the
podcast.
Obviously, you'll be joining usas co-hosts moving forward,
which I'm super excited aboutSame here Same here A lot more
(43:17):
to come.
Yeah, thanks very much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah thank you and your expertise as well.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Absolutely, chat more soon.
Brilliant Thanks, yvonne,bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theBigCommerce podcast.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on your favourite podcastplatform and make sure you're
following us on social media onInstagram and on LinkedIn.
If you've got ideas orsuggestions for future episodes,
please send us an email, infoat thebiggcommercepodcastcom or
(43:45):
on our social media platforms.
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