The Hard Truth About Being an Entrepreneur & CEO: [solidcore] Founder Anne Mahlum | S3, Ep 14. - The Big Dawgs: with Manning Sumner

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
In 2013, you founded Solid Core,one of the most successful
fitness companies in the country.
More than 115 locations nationwide served hundreds of
thousands of clients, including Michelle Obama, when you exited
the company and sold your sharesfor nearly $100 million.
It's my job to ensure all of youhave a company to come back to
and when there is a war and whenthere is a crisis, I will be the

(00:21):
first one picked for Dodge Wall.Like you want me on your team
right now? I felt the same way.
I felt very empowered during that time to like take care of
what I've been building for 12 years.
And so I just doubled down. Did.
You remember the news. The gyms are dead.
I burned through every single savings I have.
One of the things I really learned about leadership is in
an environment we're talking about homeless men and women

(00:43):
coming out of shelters every morning to go run.
We weren't providing food or shelter.
They were coming because they were part of an environment that
lifted them up, celebrated them,that cheered for them.
And for those who didn't want todo the work at back of my feed
or like would show up late, we'dbe like, this isn't for you.
We're not going to allow anybodyto be a part of this
organization, homeless or not, that doesn't live by our

(01:03):
principles and showing up on time as one of them.
So if you can't do that, you're off the team.
That's just part of being again,an entrepreneur.
Once you understand that the world and people don't owe you
anything, when those things happen, they don't impact you as
much. It's all about like expectation.
And I just try to continue to step into to gratitude and all
of those things of like great, be able to make what you have to
make the best decision for you. And I need to make the best
decision for me. I'm Manning Sumner.

(01:25):
I've lived my life by 1 motto Nodays off.
No days off has never taken a day off on you.
It's a commitment to becoming your best self.
Get ready to be inspired to do the same.
This is the big dogs with Manning Sunder.
All right then, we are here. Hi lady, How are you doing?

(01:46):
I'm great. How are you?
Awesome. So I'm gonna let let the
audience know a little bit aboutyou and then and then we're just
going to dive in. So you grew up in a small safe
town in North Dakota with amazing parents.
Before the age of 12, you made abox that you kept underneath
your bed with all your goals on it.
Your dream was to go to college,get a corporate job, get married
to your dream husband, have two kids and live in a White House
with a picket fence and build a life that felt whole and secure.

(02:09):
When you were 16, everything changed.
Your parents separated after your father asked you and your
two siblings to leave the house so he could speak to your mom.
That day he came clean. He was struggling with a
gambling addiction and owed $50,000.
Someone else was going to tell her, so he had no choice.
This came after years of recovery from drugs and alcohol,
which he had to overcome before you turned 5.

(02:30):
That day, your mom kicked him out, and their marriage ended.
At the time, you didn't know anyone else in your age in North
Dakota with divorced parents, and this experience deeply
impacted your teenage years. You found yourself trying to fix
your dad while also feeling angry and resentful toward your
mom. Still, you made a choice not to
be a victim of your circumstances.
You went after your every singledream in that box.
You earned 2°, one in political science and one in

(02:53):
communications in just three years.
Impressive. You moved to DC to work as a
policy analyst under a terrible boss, and when you got a new
offer, you took a leap and movedto Philadelphia at 24 to become
director of community engagementfor a small nonprofit.
It wasn't part of your plan, andfrom 24 to 26, you were deeply
unhappy. You didn't know who you were.

(03:14):
You felt stuck and paralyzed. But you also knew you were meant
for something bigger, and you quit your job.
You gave up your security blanket because you believe that
that wood forest you to figure things out.
You became a marathon runner, using all the energy you didn't
know what to do with and ran every day at 5:30 AM to channel
your negative energy into something productive.
You. Need a drink of water?

(03:35):
I know right? It's crazy.
Some no days off premium one, you would run past a homeless
shelter for two years in Philadelphia and one day the
guys started waving to you and you would wave back in 2007, you
realized that running and community could be a catalyst
for real transformation, which isn't it kind of crazy that like
now that's the thing and you were doing it way before.

(03:56):
I love, don't you love that likewhen you're like oh y'all
finally got it like. Like we're in crop tops,
everybody. Is both in identity and life.
You pitch the shelter on starting a running club.
At the same time you were offered a high paying job at
Comcast, but you turned it down.Everyone told you homeless
people don't run, but you thought what?
What if it works? What if this could change lives?

(04:17):
You believe that one person can make a difference, and that's
how you first, your first organization began, Back on My
Feet was born. Through trial and error, you
built it into a national nonprofit that uses running as a
vehicle to help individuals experience homelessness, find
empowerment and reclaim their lives.
Under your leadership as CEO for6 1/2 years, you scaled the
organization to 14 cities with an $8 million annual budget,

(04:41):
helping thousands of people achieve employment and more
self-sufficient living. Eventually it was time to move
on and after taking your first Pilates class in 2013, you
founded Solid Core, a Pilates inspired boutique fitness
studio. You built it from one location
in DC into one of the most successful fitness companies in
the country and even created your own Pilates for former

(05:01):
machines. Over 9 1/2 years as a founder
and CEO, you raised over 200 million in private equity and
grew the company to more than 115 locations nationwide,
employed over 2000 people and served hundreds of thousands of
clients, including Michelle Obama.
You invested every dollar you had, and when you exited the
company in April 2023, you sold your shares for nearly $100

(05:22):
million, sharing millions from the sale with your employees.
You are more than an entrepreneur.
You are a visionary CEO and investor and advisor, a
philanthropist, an athlete, A keynote speaker.
You've spoken in over 120 events, including Ted X and for
major companies covering topics like leadership,
entrepreneurship, taking bold action, finding happiness and
driving social change. In September 2023, you moved to

(05:43):
Miami after years of bouncing around the East Coast, DC, New
York and San Diego, where you met your husband, Brett, who was
initially a boxing coach. You now spend your time writing
your book, playing beach volleyball, and supporting work
that helps people struggling with addiction and those who've
been wrongly convicted. That's interesting.
We have something in common there.
You are deeply passionate about empowering people to live on

(06:04):
their own terms. I like to like like read some
quotes. You know that that like your.
Quotes. Yeah, and one of them like
really stuck out because it's, it's wild because I've been
saying it a lot lately. Just have a day one.
So I've been like, like seeing people in the gym like it's day
one, it's day one, it's day one because, you know, our thing is
no days off. So that really stood out.
And then solid core tagline, building the strongest version

(06:26):
of yourself. Our tag long is no days off has
never taken a day off on you. It's a commitment to becoming
your best self. So there's so much, you know,
synergy in that. So that was a lot people,
because she's amazing. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Listen, I like loved every chapter of my life and it's been
very real and genuine and authentic to what was going on
with me personally. And to turn those things into

(06:46):
organizations and and companies.Like, you know, I'm sure you can
relate as an entrepreneur, there's no like, like who you
are over here versus over here. You mix all your food together
and you get to show up as your true self at work and at home.
Yeah. So I want to ask you like,
what's going on now, like. Gosh.
Well, one, I play more beach volleyball than probably anybody
else. I I literally train like a

(07:08):
professional athlete but nobody pays me.
That's cool though. It's honestly so great like I I
on Monday I had to cancel 2 calls so I'm like I got to take
a nap. We played for 9 hours on Sunday
and then Monday morning and thenthe gym. 9 hours yeah of
straight volleyball. Yeah, I mean, you're taking a
break and eating and stuff like that, but so that's been really

(07:28):
fun for me. And I think, Have you ever read
the book Die with 0? If you have not read it, Bill
Perkins, but. Think I have that.
I'm not. Yeah, there's a red.
You know it's about optimizationcertain points of your life,
right? So wealth optimization, I don't
need to make another dime if I don't want to.
I get involved in things that can grow my financial impacts

(07:49):
that are really fun and that I believe in.
And that's like, if I'm not going to have fun doing it, I
don't need to do it. I'm not doing it.
And it's about, you know, your health, right?
So optimization of health. And I feel like I'm in this
point right now where I want to be so physically exhausted at
the end of every day that I earnmy sleep, I earn my food, and I
don't want to take what my body can do for granted.

(08:09):
And then, of course, you know, it's so it's health, it's
wealth, and then it's, you know,sort of career impact that you
could make. So, yeah, I think we're all just
in different chapters. And there are entrepreneurs out
there who just need to keep overand over and over again creating
businesses and great for them. I don't really feel the need to

(08:30):
do that right now. I sort of feel my professional
superpower is about empowering other people to step into their
own power and realize that they are capable of starting the
thing, doing the thing, sharing my mistakes, my lessons, my
advice along the way, if my journey or path can be helpful
to people. And that really fires me up.

(08:51):
So I do a lot of like, you know,speaking on that.
No, I love that. Yeah.
So everybody's, and I know you've seen it.
Everybody's like into morning routines right now, especially
the viral video that I don't know if you saw that that got
his head nice. And now there's so many memes on
it. Whatever.
So can we dive into a little bitof your morning routine?
Yeah, sure. I think right now, again, I play

(09:13):
volleyball every morning from 7:00 to 9:00.
So I get up at 6. I make my morning drink is what
I call it. It's like Brian Johnson's
longevity mix. It's amino acids and it's
electrolytes. And I drink that.
I play with my dog for 20 minutes.
I have a cup of coffee and then the girls arrive at my house
because I have a beautiful volleyball court in my backyard.

(09:33):
So we play from 7:00 to 9:00 andthen I eat and then I go to the
gym and then I come home and I do work from pretty much like
11:30 to 2:30. And then I'm either reading,
listening to podcasts, Sonic Hole Plunge, and then more than
likely playing volleyball again.We're shooting a podcast.

(09:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's like my my
routine right now. Have you have you ever seen four
way volleyball? Have I ever seen four way?
What do you mean seen it? So so I had a guy on the podcast
and that oh. CrossFit.
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
The cross. Yeah, I do know Chris.
Yeah, he's great. He's.
Great. My podcast and he told me the
story about inventing four way volleyball and I think it was

(10:16):
genius. Totally.
Yeah, yeah, they have him for like the pool and stuff too.
But yeah, I know Chris and Aaronfrom Founders Club.
Great guys, Amanda, those guys hustle.
Oh yeah, big time. Yeah, big time.
But I thought of you as what? Is your morning routine. 350 ish
4. You get up at 3:50 in the
morning, Yeah. I've been doing that.
Two kids. Yeah, OK.
That's why, yeah. Yeah.

(10:36):
Exactly. I don't have kids yet, so.
Yeah, I have two. So I have a five year old son
and a ten month old daughter. OK, Actually, no, she's 11 now.
OK, 11 months old. And so I try to get up before
the chaos happens. And then, and obviously my day
starts at like 7 because as you remember, when you own a gym,
the yeah, it's open early. I mean, we open at 5:00.
So it's like basically your day starts at 5:00.

(10:58):
But I try to come in here, get aworkout in first.
I always start my day with read something, like just something,
you know, read something, listento something, whether it's
worship music or something like that's elevated, you know, not
like, you know, rap music. Right, right, right.
I like it. And then get a hard workout in.

(11:18):
I'm a believer in like sure, theintensity of it and like do
something hard if I have the time, I do Sonic cold plunge if
I have the time, or otherwise I just jump in.
I just came out of retirement sofrom training, so I stopped
training for years. What do you mean?
Like like you were working out but not.
Training. One training.
Oh, training other people. Training other people and

(11:40):
because I was focused on the business, but one of this
professional athlete just got meout of retirement.
So I actually started with him today, which it was kind of like
cool. Like I thought I would never
ever do it again, but I don't know, it felt good today.
So yeah, it was it was different.
Yeah, so you had a day one? Yeah, I had a day one.
Exactly, Exactly. And I was saying it today to him
because he was like laid out on the turf, exhausted.

(12:02):
But yeah, So then I usually comeupstairs, check, check emails.
Then I like to run home and takemy son to school.
That's like kind of our little ritual.
And then and then just start theday.
And as you know, it's it's a lot.
So work stuff, you're in expansion mode.
Yes, yes, So I, that's what I'm curious about too, is like, I

(12:23):
feel like I'm in one of these weird places where it's I'm
receiving a lot, a lot of congratulations, great job, your
place is amazing. Your water is amazing, like all
these compliments, but I'm also in the trenches with it, you
know, so it's like, did you, what did you have that moment,

(12:45):
whether it was like location 15 or 16 where you felt like it
was, it was about to get to the,where you really saw the vision.
Because for me, like I'm always telling my team, we're just
getting started. We're just getting started
because as entrepreneurs, we have what we want in our head.
Like we have this vision of whatwe think is where we're trying

(13:06):
to go. And everybody else, like you
open another location, they're like, yeah, you did another.
And you're like, well. It's not there.
You know, so like you had this 100 location kind of road map
for yourself. Was there ever a a moment where
you realize like, OK, it's coming or that you knew you had
to like put the shovel in the ground and keep going?

(13:26):
You know what I mean? Like, was there ever that moment
where you like were like, like and not second guessing
yourself, but almost like knowing that it's coming so then
you have to like work even harder to get it to happen.
If that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's it.
You should take the congratulations along the way
because getting another studio open is no small feat.
And if you don't do the first, Ialways tell people who like, my

(13:46):
big vision is here XYZ, I'm like, yeah, but you're never
going to get there if you don't take care of studio or location
#1 right? You have to build the demand and
the quality and the consistency and that's what's going to
propel you to Studio 2345. So I think I think of, of
knowing when we almost were going to make it was literally
the February 2020 we'd hired bankers and we were set to open

(14:09):
31 locations in 2020. Like leases were signed, the
plan was done. And so we were going to get to
100 locations in seven years of running solid core, which was
very, very fast. But I'm like, that's what I said
I was going to do hire the bankers.
Let's, you know, take the six months, I'll stay on get to the
100 locations. And then of course, COVID hit
and, you know, all of our plans just went awry and we had to

(14:32):
pivot. And I'm really like, I think
people are like sick of talking about COVID.
But besides the tragedy and the hardship that that created for a
lot of people, I am really grateful for the leadership
lessons and the CEO lessons and the how to navigate a company
during very, not just uncertain,very opinionated times.

(14:55):
I mean, everything that I did ona daily basis, I felt
scrutinized for. We had 20 different states at
that time. So every single area was like, I
mean, even the, yeah, even DC, DC, Virginia and Maryland, I
mean, all of those were intertwined.
We, we call that that that market for us DMV because they
were, I mean, our Virginia studio was 2 miles away from our

(15:17):
DC studio, but the rules were different there.
So it was very complicated. But I never ever felt, even when
COVID happened, like I just remember telling my team that
like, it's my job to ensure all of you have a company to come
back to. And when there is a war and when
there is a crisis, I will be thefirst one picked for dodgeball.

(15:40):
Like you want me on your team right now?
Like we are not going to lose this game.
This, this, this virus, this pandemic is not taking this from
us. Other people will fold.
Other people will get stressed out and like, there's going to
be opportunity for us. So we went into expansion mode
in 2021 and we opened eleven more locations while other
people were just getting open like their other.

(16:02):
Locations. It's so interesting that you say
that because so they closed us down here and I had three
locations when they closed us down, but I was had three
locations under construction and, you know, construction
workers couldn't get COVID, so construction kept going, right?
Couldn't get yeah. It's like restaurants couldn't
get COVID but like all the gyms were still shut down.

(16:22):
Yeah, I was so wild. Let's not get started on that.
So and I felt the same way. It was like I felt, I felt very
empowered during that time to like take care of what I've been
building for 12 years, you know,and, and so I just doubled down.
And then that, that was also, like you said, I felt like
everybody was going to be eitherscared or hiding or waiting.

(16:46):
And I thought it was an opportunity to, to grow.
So I doubled down on the construction.
But then I also, we were in a warehouse for 13 years and no AC
warehouse, but we were opening all these new locations.
So the OG original headquarters location that everybody that how
I grew the brand was now it's like we kind of outgrew that.
Like, you know, we needed AC, weneeded a nicer place.

(17:09):
So I actually walked my dog continuously looking for another
because that's all you can do back.
You know, you walked, I probablywalked my dog like six hours a
day, like, you know, just and and I walked my dog around and I
found this building strata at Wynwood brand spank a new
building and I remember calling them and then going like it's

(17:29):
covet. And I'm like, I don't care, like
let's negotiate. And I actually got that deal
done in August 2020. Wow, good for you and.
You know, got an amazing lease, an amazing situation, and I
really believe it was just because of the faith that I had
in that we're gonna on the otherside of chaos.
We're gonna be OK. I felt like a lot of people made
permanent decisions in the temporary season and.

(17:51):
Do you remember the news? The gyms are dead?
Yeah, and no one will ever go back.
To in person. You know what berries did?
I don't remember. They put a ton.
Oh yeah, did digital the digital?
Berries X Yeah, they had like 15subscribers.
It was a disaster. I remember and.
Nike. Nike put everything they had
into mobile like online shoppingand then they, they, they

(18:16):
started tanking. So and, you know, relatively
speaking, but but still the major losses because they made
these permanent decisions in thetemporary season.
So kudos to you to seeing it andjust fighting through it.
And and then also too as leaderslike, I mean, I kept everybody
on payroll. See, we did not.
We. How did you do that?

(18:36):
No, we had, we, I mean, we had hundreds of employees.
We can't. Yeah.
You were bigger than me, so I had like like under 20.
So it was, it was manageable, but I burned through every
single savings I had like, you know, I won't tell you numbers,
but it was a lot of money, a lotof money and and then also just
being buttoned up. So like having our numbers,
P&L's, balance sheets records were so buttoned up that we were

(18:59):
on the first people to get the EIDL loan or whatever.
So that helped also. But then the crazy part was we
reopen, we get things going, andabout nine of the people that I
kept left me, you know? So that was like, oof, yeah.
I know that's just part of beingagain, an entrepreneur and I
feel both ways. It's like once you understand
that the world and people don't owe you anything, when those

(19:21):
things happen, they don't impactyou as much.
It's all about like expectation.And I just try to continue to
step into to gratitude and all of those things of like, great,
be able to make what you have tomake the best decision for you.
I need to make the best decisionfor me.
That's so true. That's so true.
And I always try to see it from their perspective as well, like,
you know, and then also you don't really want people around
that don't want to be there. You know, that's, yeah, that's

(19:43):
like to go back to the early days of my career with back on
my feet. That's one of the things I
really learned about leadership is creating an environment.
We're talking about homeless menand women coming out of shelters
every morning to go run. Why would they do that?
We weren't providing food or shelter, right?
Like they literally were coming because they felt good.
They were part of an environmentand a community that lifted them

(20:05):
up, that rewarded them, that celebrated them, that cheered
for them. And when you create a culture
like that, people just, you know, want to be there.
And for those who didn't want todo the work at back of my feet
or like would show up late, we'dbe like, this isn't for you.
We're not going to allow anybodyto be a part of this
organization, homeless or not, that doesn't live.
By our principles and showing upon time as one of them.

(20:27):
So if you can't do that, you're off the team.
I love that. And and on that note, did you
ever have a moment where you hadpeople with you in the early
days, but then as you started tosee more success, they weren't?
Going on the. Ride in the same manner you were
because you strike me as someonethat is constantly becoming a

(20:48):
new version of yourself, a better version, like always
improving and learning. And you need people on your team
that have that same mindset. Did you have, did you have
people that started with you that, you know, two or three
years later they just weren't the right fit and you had to
move on from it? And not necessarily from a
firing standpoint, but just froma like just didn't workout
standpoint. Yeah, of course of.

(21:08):
Course, I mean, there's literally only one woman,
Dimple, who was with me 2015 that is still part of the
company. And that's even rare to me.
The fact that she was around when we had 10 locations and
she's still that she's VP of legal now that she still has
elevated herself enough to now be a part of a organization that
does almost $200 million a year,right, is incredible.

(21:30):
And that's the always just one, just one.
And how many? Would you say were around at
that time 0? I mean, dozens of people in.
Yeah. And those are, you know, listen,
those are never fun conversations.
But again, you go back to gratitude and thanking people
for helping you get to this point.
And a lot of time we had to let people go who weren't the right
people to take us to the next phase.

(21:51):
They didn't technically do anything wrong.
It's just we need to level up. And this person doesn't have the
right experience to manage a $20million book of business.
And we don't have the infrastructure as a startup to
coach and to teach. So we went through, I mean, when
I was there for four sort of reorgs and those just aren't,

(22:13):
aren't fun. But it's, you know, as the CEO,
it is your job always to be saying, how do I because you
don't have a boss, right? So I always looked at my time in
three to six months increments, like at at most, sometimes it
was one month or two-month and saying, how is my role changing
for this company? And how am I best serving as the

(22:33):
CEO, who's the highest paid person in the room was the most
equity? How do I produce financial
impact that just continues to dothis because that serves my
employees. And one of I like remember
Manning like taking a photo of the trash at a studio one night
and I'm like, took a photo and I'm like, oh, you know, I'm
still not above taking out the trash.

(22:53):
Thought I was sort of relating to the people.
And I kind of look back at that and cringe now because if I
can't figure out something better to do with my time, then
take out the trash. I should have been negotiating,
you know, leases or figuring outhow do we generate another 200
grand in revenue for these studios every year.
That's my job that serves my people.
And I need to be more transparent and communicate with

(23:15):
them of this is how I'm spendingmy time.
And the people that end up growing with you in those roles
are doing the same. They're not waiting to be told
what to do. They are asking themselves how
do I make better financial impact for the business?
And, and those are the people that you tend to promote.
They're already acting as AVP. You just change their title, you
know? That's what.
I would say is kind of my biggest pain point now is just

(23:37):
having people around that you they've got to switch, you know,
they either they're going to have to buy into where we're
going, not where we are, or it'sjust not going to work.
Yeah, I was. Listening to Hermosi and he was
like everybody. And I was like, oh, I used to
say this too, everybody. I don't care if you're in sales,
if you're in client customer service, HR, if you cannot

(24:00):
articulate your financial impactto the business, right?
So if it's not like, OK, you're in client services, what's your
financial impact? I don't know.
I answer questions wrong answer.You know, like you help people
continue to want to stay at thisbusiness and you help them love
this business so much that they're giving referrals and
we're bringing in more people and that we're going to sell
additional products to that client because they're so

(24:21):
invested in our brand because wegive such great customer
service. Same with HR turnover is very
expensive. If that person, I can't
understand that putting the right resources into hiring the
right person who's going to stick around for four years or
employee retention and how that,you know, financially supports
the business. Wrong person for the role.
And I think sometimes people getconfused over what they think

(24:44):
their role is. It's like financial impact.
If I can't quantify your salary and I can't see 3X return for
what I'm paying you, you're not going to be around very long.
I like the way you said. That too, and it's so true.
I don't, I think. And then I think that's it can
be a byproduct of the CEO or theleader not expressing that.
Yeah. And not being just letting them

(25:05):
know because if there's confusion in their role, then
they're not going to be, they'renot going to do what they need
to be doing. Yeah, some clarity.
Clarity and role and you know. Who did the best at that?
I forget his net last name Toby from Shopify.
Remember again, going back to COVID for a second, but like
businesses were expected to be everything for everybody.
And he finally wrote this letterto his employees saying, listen,
if I hear one more of you use the Word family around here,

(25:28):
you're fired, right? Because a family means
unconditional love. You could that means you can do
anything and I'm still going to love you.
And that's not what a company needs.
A company needs team members whounderstand, you know that's
nothing because. I call it teamly, yeah.
So for me. We're not a team, we're not a
family, we're kinda in the middle because like you said,

(25:49):
you can't be a family 'cause that's too lovey dovey and and
like you said, if people make mistakes, you have to love them
anyways, no? And then team sometimes can be
too like cut throat. So there has to be a little bit
of like a little bit of family in there, in my opinion.
OK. And so that's why I call it a
team elite. Yeah.
I. Like the I like the innovation,
but it's also just like if if some team member and you can

(26:10):
relate it to sports, yeah, isn'tdoing their job, call it NBA.
What happens? They get taken out and they get
sit on the bench. Well, someone else has to come
in, right? And so everybody has a
responsibility every day to say what is my role on the team and
how am I showing up? And then he's like, we're not a
social justice organization. We're not gonna comment on
everything that goes on in the world.
I'll tell you what we are going to comment on if it's good for

(26:31):
business, and you need to be OK with that.
Have your beliefs, have your political views, express them.
But the company is not going to be a pillar or a voice for
everybody else's voice here. It's just not going to happen.
We're not a democracy. We're not going to take a vote
every time a decision gets made.If we are taking a vote, know
that I'm going to take it into consideration.
If I'm asking for your opinion, I really want it.

(26:52):
But you need to trust as your leader.
I'm not going to ask it every time.
And I might make a decision you don't agree with.
You need to be OK with that. So anyway, go back and read that
letter to Mike. If you.
If you he was so good. I thought it was like so
helpful. So I'm going to pull.
A couple of questions because they're good You recently posted
about having the best ABS of your life at 44 yeah.

(27:13):
Incorporating more strength training into your routine.
Can you also share how your fitness journey has evolved over
time and changed I. Looked really heavy now.
I didn't really used to do that,you know, even even when I
discovered Pilates and decided Iwas going to start solid core,
that was sort of my first big introduction into lifting.
And that was Pilates is still light and Pilates will get you,

(27:34):
you know, toned and it'll help with your endurance muscles.
But I just like felt like I wasn't getting stronger.
My legs weren't growing, my glutes weren't growing.
So the last couple years is whenI really, really started lifting
heavy. I feel really good.
I feel like I'm powerful on the volleyball court.
My legs and my glutes are much bigger than before.
So I lift really, really happy. And I'm still running.

(27:55):
I do, but I'm only sprinting. Like I don't do long distance
anymore. So yeah, it's cool to see.
Like that, that evolution. Yeah, yeah.
And I don't actually do a lot ofsolid core anymore.
Like I'll do it in New York because it's a novelty for me.
OK, But it is a great workout. And like I do think it really
helps injury prevention and it'sgreat for for your core.
But I I can get the core throughthe gym with some similar

(28:18):
movements and I'll just do them do them on my own.
But if I'm going to spend an hour working out right now, I
want to lift heavier weights. And what's your?
Like what's your favorite thing to do right now in the gym?
In the gym. Probably the hip, hip thrusts.
Yeah, yeah, there's this. And I, I go to a lifetime, which
is close to where I live. They have like it's a glute
kickback machine where like you can just get, you know, sort of
get low like it's a football thing and you're and you're

(28:40):
pushing back there. They just have a lot of machines
there that I feel like I don't see at a lot of other gyms.
Like there's like this glute press where you're going up so
targeted. So all that booty stuff.
Yeah, yeah. And I just love the burn in my
in my legs and it makes me it makes me faster on the
volleyball court. That's why I do a lot of it.
Awesome. And nutrition.
Of course, we we eat the same thing pretty much everyday.

(29:02):
Are you kind of like? A stickler with that, yeah, You
know, it's. Like I think you easily get in
trouble with food when you're what are we going to have for
dinner tonight? There's too many first thing
that pops in your head. Also, your discipline and
willpower has dropped throughoutthe day.
So it might be like, oh, what's going to taste good?
And we just don't allow that. Like we prep our dinner so
dinner is already prepped and like it's like that's what we're

(29:23):
having. So it's either beef with
Peppers, like red, green and orange Peppers and onions and
rice, or it's grilled, sorry, ground Turkey with that, or it's
grilled chicken with asparagus or broccoli or sweet potato.
Like those are our three optionsfor dinner.
It sounds just. Like my wife and I, my wife does
these stuff, stuff green Peppers, like with the ground

(29:45):
beef and a little bit of the rice and they're really good.
Yeah, Yeah. That's actually.
One we should, we should add in because it's very similar and it
sounds, it sounds good. It's really good, all right.
So what does leadership and entrepreneurship mean to you and
how do you see showing up as an effective leader and a business
owner? And, and I would even like take
it a step further and say, add alittle bit of customer service

(30:06):
in there because I think you have, I mean, some of your
quotes and some of the things I've, I've heard you say, you
just nail it. Like we use a lot of, or I have
used a lot of restaurant like Danny Meyer and like kind of
learn from the restaurant business of how to apply that in
the gym business. And one of the things that stood
out to me too is the name thing is so genius.
Absolutely the genius. It's so simple.

(30:27):
It's simple but. It's genius.
And I don't think people understand how powerful it is.
Like I'll give you an example. You just said my name just a
minute ago and you know, you feel like you feel good.
You're like, oh, she she said myname and you feel like you want.
To open up a little bit more or like it's just yeah, totally,
yeah, that was a big one. You know, listen, Solid core
started off with 10 machines in our studios, So like that's not

(30:50):
a ton of people in there at once.
And it was like we can learn everybody's names and we should
say it over and over again because subliminally, when you
leave a place that that you heard your name in a positive
association, you leave thinking,I really liked it there.
And you may not even be able to articulate why.
It's because we made you feel athome when we made you feel seen.
So that just became part of the about the evaluation for every

(31:12):
single coach that had to pass solid core.
Like you could be perfect, but if you couldn't remember or say
names, you couldn't coach for usand we would tell people get a
post it now. It doesn't matter.
You know, people understand thatyour memorized rising, you know,
10 now we have like 27 machines that it may take you a minute if
you forget it, ask them, I'm sorry, I forgot your name.
What was it again? They'll appreciate that rather

(31:34):
than you ignoring them. So we are a big sickler, you
know, for, for the name piece and I think hiring people with
great personalities, we didn't hire people who had trainer
experience or Pilates experience.
Like we felt our workout was so different.
We're going to have to train youanyway, but one thing I can't
train is how people respond to you.

(31:55):
So we started to pull from our client base really quickly in
the early days and we'd be like,we'd love you to coach for us.
And I'd be like, I, I have neverbeen a fitness trainer in my
life and I'm a lawyer. I'm like, yeah, great.
This is a part time job. You can coach six classes a
week, mornings, weekends, whatever.
We pay pretty well. And we think you'd be great.
Like we just would love for you to go through training because

(32:15):
I, I can't teach the fact that people gravitate to you and I
and you just can't. You know what I mean?
Some people have that Magic can't teach energy.
To me, we can't teach energy. You know, so we just started to
get really picky about people who would show up in class and
crush it and work really hard and would be inspiring other
people simply by being there. And we'd get them on the
payroll. And that kept our culture really

(32:37):
strong because these people werealready bought in to what we
were doing. They were taking the workout,
they were in the community and now they were on the other side
of delivering the community. So it was such a seamless way
for us that. Sounds genius, yeah.
All this stuff. Yeah, so I'm sure.
You have clients who come in here that people are like, we
love that guy, get that guy to get him to.

(32:58):
Start coaching seriously. It's it is a big part of why
people like, how did you keep consistency?
And like by that, as soon as we found one studio in one market,
you had to take 25 classes to even be considered to be a
coach. And so it would just be easy to
pick off the people who made other people feel good.
I like it. I like.
It I'm definitely taking notes here.

(33:19):
All right, so this one again that I just really related to
how we talk to ourselves is how we will show up.
Can you discuss the power of positive self belief and self
talk and just how you prioritizeyour values and surrounding
yourself with the correct people?
So, you know, the self belief, but then also making sure you
keep the right people around you, Yeah.
So I, gosh, I feel like my life is really indicative to not

(33:43):
giving up on my standards and what I thought was possible.
And so back to my childhood, yeah, after my whole dad stuff,
you know, happened and my parents split, I can remember
telling my mom on a walk and allmy friends of like, I'm going to
be somebody someday. Like, there is just no way that
my dad's addictions or my parents divorce, I'm going to be

(34:04):
a victim of that. I'm the only one who's going to
lose if I lean into that victimhood.
And I wasn't even more determined than ever just to
like make something of my life, not knowing what that meant or
anything. But ten years later when the
opportunity for back on my feet came.
And within those 10 years, I hadgraduated from College in three
years, as you mentioned, graduated from grad school in a

(34:25):
year, moved to Minnesota, moved to DC, moved to Philly on my
own. Like I had just made many of
these decisions around uncertainty that I have proven
to myself. I can figure things out.
And so continuing with that mindset of like, I'm preparing
myself for the moment and the opportunity that I am going to
either manifest or anifest or something, I'm going to be ready

(34:49):
for it. And so people would say, how did
you like have the nerve to walk away from everything and start
this nonprofit? And I'm like, I was preparing
myself for it. Didn't even feel like a choice
Manning. It felt felt like I'm I'm ready,
like I this is my dad's addictions is why that I was
drawn to these guys. I'm a runner.
I'm using running as a vehicle. It felt so authentic and so

(35:12):
stepping into that person that I'm like this is who I was
supposed to always be. So the same thing for solid
core. Now, this doesn't mean I've
never had limiting beliefs and doubts, but having that Bank of
of positivity to combat all of those things with, like, don't
you forget who you are. Like these doubts happen to

(35:34):
everybody. You're just being tested.
And like, I remember getting a $75,000 offer for solid core
before I'd even open Studio One for a 30% stake in the business
because I was nervous. And I was telling my friend, I'm
like, oh gosh, I'm going to use all my money.
And he made me that offer. And I remember thinking, maybe

(35:54):
I'm going to take this. It would be really smart for me
just to bank 75K in case this doesn't workout.
And the moment that comes out right, it's like telling your
wife that you're going to be like, hey, I'm going to just
like park 30% of my energy and my time and my money over here
just in case this doesn't workout.
What happens when things get hard?
You start to lean into that 30% and you start to be like, man,

(36:17):
I'm really glad I didn't go all in on this.
And so just even thinking that out loud, I'm like, no, if I, if
I, I have the money to do this, if I'm not willing to put it all
in, that tells me I shouldn't doit at all.
That tells me I'm doubting myself.
I don't believe in myself and I have no business starting this
company. And I even feel the same about
my, my husband. Like I was engaged twice before

(36:38):
my husband and I called off those engagements because it was
just like, I don't think this iswhat I imagine marriage or my
partner like this, this is wrong.
I'm making a I'm making a bad decision here.
I'm going to hold off. This is going to be difficult.
And especially the second engagement when like my mom was
like, are you kidding me? I'm like, I can't go through

(36:58):
with this. I'm just not going to do it.
And I always knew someone like Brett existed, his playfulness,
his athleticism, the, the, the flirtation that we have on a
daily basis, the energy between us.
Like I knew who I was looking for and just never like giving
up on that. And getting married when I was
43 years old. We're like family planning to

(37:20):
have a baby when I'm 44. Like, I do not care.
I wasn't going to do things based off of anybody else's
timeline or expectation of like,well, that's just the way life
is, Anne. And I'm like, I don't think it
has to be, you know, I think. A lot of women need to hear like
more of that because I feel likethey put so much pressure on
themselves to find the right person early and have a family

(37:42):
early. And it's like, and I even have
guy friends or like my, my girlfriend's like wants me to
get married, wants me to get married.
And you know, and it's like, so I, I don't know, it's like, can
you go a little deeper on that? Just like what?
Because it sounds like you didn't want to settle.
You just knew your intuition wastelling you that this is is not
right. And the truth is now look at
you. It's like you made the right

(38:03):
decision. So I think there's something to
be said about, about listening to what, you know, is, is what
is best for you. Like, you know, Yeah, you're
actually. Talking about the rest of your
life here. So you're right, you're in a
hurry to make a decision for a timeline for the rest of your
life. I think that's a big reason why,
frankly, divorces happen becausewe are so fixated on achieving

(38:27):
this by this date. And gosh, I mean, I didn't know
who I was in my in my 20s, right?
I'm still a baby and a kid and learning everything.
And I think you'll start to see a lot of people, at least I hope
so, making decisions later in life about who you want your
life partner to be. Once you've had some life
experiences of your own and you get comfortable enough in your
own skin, you can stand up for yourself.

(38:48):
You maybe tolerate less, you know, what your standards are
for yourself and people you wantto be around.
But yeah, I just sort of was like, I'm going to walk down
this aisle. Like, I don't want to be like,
well, if that's not a good divorce, Like, I just never, you
know what I mean? Like, I just didn't.
I'm like, I don't care if I everget married.
What's there's, there's no societal expectation like there

(39:10):
was back in the 60s and 70s, youknow, like you need a man for
all these things. So I don't know.
I just think it's you're talkingabout the rest of your life.
Did you meet Brett? Before or after?
Like were you in the middle of solid core or was it after I?
Was in the middle of like actually doing a transaction
that fell apart. We were gonna, we, we were
supposed to sell in November of 22 and they backed out of the

(39:31):
deal. Like that's happened to me
twice. So yeah, we, we met in August of
22 and like fell in love really quickly and like just kind of
moved in together and we got engaged a year later.
But yeah, it was right before, right before the solid core
sale. So we were August and then I
sold it in April. So he was around for like 8

(39:52):
months. Yeah, I know.
It's funny because no, but Manning, like he would see what
he had, tells the story. You know that college friends
like I met this girl, she's great, she's so fun, blah blah,
blah. And he's like.
That's just fucking really successful.
And his friends were like, Oh yeah, man.
I'm like, do you want to have a pity party?
But seriously, it is funny. Though, like, you know, like,
because most of the time, sometimes you know, it's, it's

(40:13):
the other way around. So it's like awesome to see you.
You're like, yeah. And.
And totally. And and you know, you hear these
men who can't take women who make more money.
And I'm just like, listen, womenare on their way up and they're
they're they're not going anywhere.
And you better do the work on yourself to get used to women
making a lot of money. And also could be a pretty
awesome thing. So I'm a book guy.

(40:35):
I love reading. What are you reading right now?
When am I reading right now? The the Ritz Carlton?
I can't remember that customer service.
One customer service. Ritz Carlton one it's it's
really good. Are you a big?
Customer service person at your gym?
Yes. Like Unreasonable Hospitality, I
made my whole staff read it. We have like required reading.

(40:56):
Like The Advantage by Patrick Lonsoni, Ego as an Enemy by Ryan
Holiday, The Leader that had No title by Robin Sharma are all
kind of things that I make sure everybody reads and then I'll
throw like new ones at them and make sure they read those.
Like we did one called Consistency.
What was the other one? Cool, I love it.

(41:18):
You. Never split the difference was
just awesome, especially with negotiations and then How to Win
Friends and Influence of People which is another bad ass book.
What? Is there any other books that
you're like currently reading orhave read that like for
business? Wise those are usually my 2.
Like big, big go to ones. I think sometimes

(41:39):
autobiographies, honestly, just because of the tenacity.
Like one of my favorites is Andre Agassi on on open, just
hearing people's stories on tribulations.
And you know, a lot of these people with their books get
pretty vulnerable. So I love reading success
stories on how people got to where they where they are.
So that was a really good one picture of me and.
And the Andre Agassi, like, fullblown outfit with the pink, with

(42:01):
the pink tights and the blue. You know, I'm talking about with
the head man. I gotta get my mom.
Yeah. And I.
Just it's like people who make it who are real, like their
anomalies, right? So, and I usually there's a lot
of pain and upbringing and obviously he has that part of
his story also. But I just think it you find
these moments in relatability with all these folks that end up
at the top. And usually they're coming from

(42:23):
a place of disadvantage. They're coming from a pace of
pain. And a lot of people think that
those are disadvantages. And I'm like, use all of that.
Like that is what's going to propel you.
There's something in you, Manning.
I don't know what it is, but like, that makes you want it
more than anybody than anybody else.
And those are usually the people, again, that end up
winning. But it's coming from somewhere.

(42:43):
And, and I grew up with parents who never pushed me.
And I was annoyed by that. And I I outperformed my brother
and sister. And I'm like, why don't you love
me more? You know?
So like, I just was like, oh, I'm not doing enough.
So you sort of go after achievement for love, and people
can say it's unhealthy. Who gives a shit?

(43:03):
It worked. It, like, worked, you know, it
worked for a long time. And yeah, I needed to go into
therapy and heal myself and whatever.
But I built things that made people's lives happier and and
healthier along the way while trying to figure out my own
sense of, you know, what love is.
But it's like, I just think those stories are cool where you
can find the similar strings between each other.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to. Check that out.

(43:24):
Like Shoe Dog is absolutely one of my greatest favorite books.
Sam Walton's book is incredible.I haven't read that one.
It's. Really good, I mean.
Just the everything, I mean, he used to make his employees like
sleep on the floor when they would travel, like all this
stuff. But and then one of the things,
the ones that really stood out to me was DM XS autobiography.
And it's crazy because when I read it, I was very young and I

(43:49):
like related to it so much, eventhough his life was totally
different than mine. But it was the overcoming.
It was the knowing that he was great.
And even though all the pain andsuffering he went through, he
channelled it into his artist, you know, in his artistry.
And so I love what she said. How did you grow up?

(44:09):
You. Know typical like parents
married dad very successful, butI think one of the things that
happened happened to me that I recognize was my dad was
extremely successful and then hehad a business partner steal his
company and he lost everything and so we moved out of like you

(44:31):
know mansion basically, you knowback.
I mean, it was a very nice houseon the golf course, you know,
and then into like a 2 bedroom apartment and, and going through
that and like, and it was right when I was going into college.
So it was like I said to myself,like that'll never happen to me.
It was like, you know, like, andthen also, and I still feel like

(44:55):
I haven't had, it hasn't happened yet.
I mean, you know, I haven't had my moment yet.
But also, I, I now that I actually were talking about it,
I think subconsciously it's likeI'm going to make the money back
for them. You know, like.
Now that I really think about it, I mean, this probably is the
first conversation where that's come up in a long time.
But yeah, because it is interesting.

(45:18):
Like you always wonder, like, why you have such a drive to
take it all the way and to nevergive up.
And no matter what obstacle and no matter what set back, like
you just never quit, never quit,never quit.
And I would say, yeah, there's alittle bit of that.
There's also a little bit of I thought I was going to be a
professional athlete, So what sport?
Football. So I went to.
All so I broke my back in high school, my junior year in high

(45:41):
school and everybody, the the doctors, everybody told me I
wouldn't even walk. And so I rehabbed myself back,
you know, could do the splits and was like a phenom.
Came back my senior year was defensive player of the year in
Alabama, got earned a scholarship to to Auburn
University. I was called a preferred walk in
a walk on came in with the scholarship players that had to

(46:02):
earn the scholarship and I did. And then right when I was about
to be the starter, I broke my ankle.
And then right before I was going to be the starter again, I
broke my back again. And then finally had to make a
decision to let that dream die. That's when I jumped into
kinesiology, exercise science, health promotions, to learn how
to help others not go through what I went through and but to

(46:25):
have that dream taken away from you and, and, and thinking that
you're going to be going down a certain direction and then it's
like completely changes you again.
You have this thing like, oh, but I'm going to make it in
other ways. Like, you know, so and I, yeah,
it's like someone took. Something from you and you're
like, no, like I got to figure out a different path and I'm not

(46:46):
going to succumb and I'm not going to be nobody like yeah,
it's almost even more so. And I know you said.
This in in a lot of your interviews that you knew you
were meant for greatness, like there was something inside of
you that you knew it. And that's how I've been and
since I was like, I mean, my momwill tell.
I mean, since I was like, I was always the star in the plays,
you know, since like third grade.
So I always have felt like I'm, I'm meant for more like always.

(47:11):
And, and I think so. Let me ask you this though.
Like when you feel that way, when you know you're meant for
more, but then you start a brandand then you start to realize it
can't be about you, that it has to be about the brand.
How, how did you manage that feeling?
You know, that where it was where people expected you to be

(47:32):
the face and the, and all that. But at the same time, you had to
balance that and empower the brand and the movement and the
values and the customer service and the employees to make sure
that you weren't like, you know,because sometimes I, I have felt
that when you get to the amount of employees that you have, like
they're looking at you like, like, you know, he thinks he's

(47:52):
all that and, and, and you have to put them first a lot of times
and not yourself. So talk a little bit about that.
Yeah. I think I never lost sight of my
role as the founder and knowing I was clear on the vision of if
I wanted to sell this thing one day, if I make it about me, I'm
not going to sell it right? Or I'm going to end up working

(48:12):
for somebody else because I'm going to have to go along with
that ride. And you can't scale something
that's really about you. If I want to have 100 locations,
I can't be the one coaching in those studios.
If people only want to come to Anne's classes, that's not, you
know, that's obviously bad. You can't scale that either.
So I think the true test of a really good founder is looking
at the legacy of what that person built and if it's

(48:34):
thriving without them. It was my job to put the people,
the systems, the processes, the brand place and like empower the
leadership at solid core. So another good book is called
Multipliers by Liz blanking on her name.
I'm sure you can find it and putin the show notes and it talks
about how your leadership eitheramplifies people or diminishes

(48:54):
it. And we all have diminishing
characteristics. Like I'm really good.
I'm a visionary, right? So like no problem saying that
I'm really great with ideas. I see things people don't see.
So what happens in meetings? I'm the first one to usually
speak. I'm the first one to solve the
problem. The more I do that, the more my
my team depends on let Anne solve the problem.
And I'm not teaching them. I'm not giving them the extra 20

(49:16):
seconds to think through how they would solve the problem.
So if I wanted to build something that was going to be
long lasting, not only did I notneed to shut up, I needed to not
be in the meetings, you know, sowhen I sold solid core, I wasn't
even in any of those meetings. Like the leadership team, Brian,
Nate, Dimple, everybody who was going to stay with the company

(49:37):
had to go sell the new private equity firm on why they should
buy into that team. If I went into those meetings
and outshined everybody, it would be like we, we want to
stay. And it's pretty clear that she's
still pretty heavily involved inpulling the strings behind the
business. So that was a really important
part of like, you guys have to go do these meetings and you

(49:59):
need to knock it out of the parkbecause these people are buying
into you. They're not buying into me
because I'm exiting on this deal.
So anyway, I think putting your energy into the team, into the
culture and giving those examples meaning of like, you
know, I, I think I remember telling the team of like, once I
read that book, I'm like, here are the ways that I am actually
doing you guys a disservice. So I am going to spend this

(50:22):
entire meeting asking questions and I'm not allowed to answer
one question. So if you, if you pose a
problem, I might turn to Oscar and be like Oscar, what do you
think about this? What would, how would you
approach this problem? You know, and you get to the
solution that way. And then people start to use
their brains more and they startto trust themselves because the

(50:43):
most dangerous employee or leader is leaders that are
around you that need permission from its founder or its CEO to
execute. And either the CEO has created a
culture where they punish peoplewhen they're making decisions
because they didn't ask you, or the people don't feel confident
enough to make them. So they come to you and say,

(51:04):
hey, man, and I just had this great idea, blah, blah.
What do you think? And you say, that sounds great,
man. Do it.
Now. That person knows.
Cool. I'm protected by Dad.
He said do it. So if it doesn't work, it's not
my fault. It's your fault.
And that's that's you cannot grow something really big if all
the big decisions are flooding up to you.
Yeah. That's amazing.
Can you discuss the power of uniqueness and how it has played

(51:26):
a huge role in your success, both personally and
professionally? Oh yeah.
So like, I sort of think as an, as an entrepreneur, right, I
know what I'm good at. I know how to build curated,
high quality branded experiencesthat no one's ever experienced
before. And I sort of think that was my
leg up of like, I don't, I don'tmake chairs, right?

(51:46):
I'm like, I don't really know how to compete in that world to
get people to buy chairs or do whatever.
But there was no, there was no nonprofit that used running as a
vehicle to help homelessness. You know, I'm like, no one's
doing that. I'm going to do that.
I'm going to be the only one who's doing that same thing with
solid core. When I discovered Pilates, I'm
like, no one's really doing thison a big scale yet.

(52:07):
Like I know how to scale things and I know how to implement
community better than anybody else.
So because I know how to scale quickly, I'm going to start this
and I'm going to get ahead of everybody else who already has
5-10 something locations. And because the workout was so
unique, like this is the same thing.
Like it's like a cool water brand, right?
You're like, this place hasn't been disruptive.

(52:29):
Everybody tries to be like, you know, clean, non offensive
marketing and you're sort of again, wait, is this a cocktail?
Is it a beer? You're you're getting people's
face in an innovative, unique way.
And our tagline for solid core for so long was like, it's the
hardest workout you've never tried.
And so that curiosity, it was like people would ask us to

(52:50):
describe it and we're like, we really can't, You know, it's not
really Pilates, it's resistance training on a reformer, but
you're going to just have to come and experience it.
So the word of mouth behind solid core that you probably
realized too, people love to talk about the fact that they
work out and they love to talk about how sore they are.
So after doing a solid core class, because it was so

(53:11):
different, people had to tell everybody I did this class, you
need to go try it. So it was the power of leaning
into that uniqueness from a business wise.
And then personally, you know, like I, I have short blonde
hair, I wear cropped ups and I have tattoos.
I'm a hard person to like forget.
And I think that that itself communicates confidence.

(53:33):
So I went in to raise money for private equity.
Like it, I went in just like this, right?
You could see my core, you couldsee my ABS and I tried to be
funny and I tried to be even flirtatious.
I leaned into the fact that I was a confident woman.
And I think because many of those guys weren't used, they,
they, they were used to women walking in those doors, buttoned

(53:53):
up behaving, let me not say the wrong thing.
Let me just answer your questions.
And they're kind of unforgettable.
So I was like me or not, you're not really going to forget after
you either see me or have a conversation with me.
And I stepped into that and it helped exude confidence.
Love it, love. It love it.
So, Anne, if I were to get into your car right now, would you be

(54:17):
listening to Oh. Interesting.
What would come on? I'm kind of in like a Maggie
Rogers era right now. Do you not know?
Maggie Rogers? Maggie.
Maggie Rogers? Yeah.
Maggie Rogers. Oh my goodness, I'm and I'm a
music guy. So are you really?
What kind of music do you like? Everything.
Really. I love music.
OK, Yeah. Try listen to Maggie Rogers.
It's just like a very kind of chill vibe right now.

(54:39):
OK, I'm John. Or is it It's kind of like folk?
Country. Folk kind of.
I love that stuff so. I hope I didn't just.
Defend her in any way. But yeah, it's really, it's
really good. Like my husband, it's, it's
funny, like we went to a Hoodie and Blowfish concert this summer
and so we listened to that for like 2 to 3 weeks straight.
I do like something to that. Because like, when I'm when I

(55:00):
like something, I like overkill.Like, it's the same song every
like, yeah, I just like, soak itin.
Yeah. So I'm not obsessed with Marcus
King. I don't know who that is.
Oh, my God. Check Marcus King.
OK. Is it Marcus King Band?
And Marcus King is it? It's.
Bluesy country rock. He's one of the greatest
guitarist I've ever heard in my life.

(55:21):
OK, Marcus. King and we're going to that
we're going to Rufus du soul in the A so I'm sure they'll be,
you know, the music. That, like, makes you make funny
faces, you know, where it's likeit's, you know, I don't know.
I do. I do that like when it's like
such a crazy guitar moment. You like make fun face.
Yeah. Musicals like Hamilton, I'll get
on a Hamilton kick again and listen to the soundtrack for a

(55:42):
week and then move on to something else.
Yeah, I have a pretty wide rangeof like.
Do you need? Motivation When you work out, do
you I listen to. Music.
Yeah. If I'm, if I'm just walking on
the treadmill, it would be a podcast, of course.
But like, if I'm doing weights and stuff, Yeah.
Yeah. And like, this is also people, I
do not work out at home. I'm like, I really don't like to
work out at home. I also try to convince myself

(56:03):
that everybody's waiting for me at the gym and they're like
waiting for me to get there to inspire them.
So like when I'm on the treadmill, I'm like, you better
freaking get to that 14 on the Sprint today because everybody
is waiting and watching. It's it's a mind thing, you
know, but it makes me show up differently.
And that's why a big reason why I will go to the gym or like
when I'm lifting heavy, I'm like, everybody's going to come

(56:25):
and check this weight after you leave and they're going to see
how much you lifted and they know what you lifted last week.
So step it up and that's great. So weird, I did change my though
philosophy when it came to the gym because I owned the gym,
especially in the one that I wasin.
It's 'cause I used to like, likebe pissed off at the weights,
like I'm gonna, I'm gonna freaking destroy you.
But then everybody thought I waslike upset and mad to like calm

(56:49):
it down a little bit. That's you need a.
T-shirt to tell people. Like I'm working out like yeah,
I, I'm. Mad I'm just, you know, getting
my pump on. When it comes to work life
balance, you say it's all the same and you elaborate on that,
'cause I feel the same way. Yeah, listen.
When you love what you do and also people keep asking, are you
going to start another company? I'm like not, not right now.
I I know too much, but I look atthis soon and I so I was like,

(57:12):
this would be so cool. Like I love the setup that you
have here, the fact that your office serial podcast and like
it's you did a really nice job with the vibe in here.
I can see why it'd be easy to spend all day in this place, but
man, naivete in business is sucha superpower because you have, I
mean, my first year of, of Salicore, I was sued by an

(57:32):
ex-boyfriend. I was sued by the machine
developer and I got evicted for my first first year, first,
first year, first like 15 months, I would say.
And if I, if someone would have said, if someone would have
said, and this is going to happen the first year, I might
have been like, I'll choose something else, you know, But
going through that very little rattles me anymore because I've

(57:54):
just been through so much. So I think work life balance
when you're an entrepreneur, if you don't, if you don't love it
like it's, it's not, it's not meant for you.
Like I loved every second of building that company.
I loved being in the studios. I loved coaching.
I loved figuring out the big problems.
I loved opening another studio. I love seeing someone walk
around with a solid core shirt on.
I love the emails that I got of like changing people's lives.

(58:15):
It was all representative of what I felt I should be doing
with my life. And when I wasn't at solid core,
it's like I was hanging out withsomebody who took a solid core
class. Like it was just all the same
for me. So I never felt like I really
needed an escape. I kind of feel that way about
when people need vacations. I'm like, no, I don't have kids
so people might harp on me for that, but I feel like if you

(58:37):
need such an escape from your life, you might be doing
something wrong. You might I I agree.
I call it I, I, I, it. It annoys me when people are
like I have, I need a vacation. I need a vacation.
It's just like a vacation. It's like what is.
Vacation. Is life that bad?
Like it means. Vacating your life, right?
So like if you feel that coming on a lot, I just think you're
not in alignment. I enjoy.
Making experiences, of course, but you know, like I like I

(59:01):
always want to create moments over materials, you know I mean,
especially when it comes to family, but not to escape my
life, right, You know yeah, it'san.
Extension of or I like the Europeans when they call it
holiday like that's better than vacating your life is that yeah
yeah when I. First opened this place and I
got in here. I would find myself like not
even realizing what time it was.And my wife was like, what are

(59:24):
you doing? And I'm like, I'm like, it just
is so comfortable. And then we were shooting the
podcast in an apartment, like inmy old situation, and I would
sweat during the podcast and like felt a little off.
And this I feel so comfortable, like I'm so laid back because
it's it's my office and that's where I have meetings.

(59:46):
I love the window. Here this is, yeah.
And then it. You know, and then it, it gives
like my other office and my other gym that I had, I couldn't
see the gym. I had a window, but I had to
like walk around. So just being able to see the
people and, and if I see somebody, I know I can come down
and say hello and stuff like that.
And then they see me up here andthey wave.

(01:00:06):
So it's just not. It's cool.
Where did the dog logo come from?
So. My original Pitbull was named
Artemis, the Greek goddess of hunt.
And I, when I read shoe dog, I was very, very intentional with,
with my branding. I like, I was like, all right,
Legacy's the name I need, I needjust do it.

(01:00:29):
I need, you know, something thatpeople can, you know the motto,
the, the, the mantra, the ethos.And that's where no days off
came from. And then I got a lot of
pushback. Like, I mean, the amount of
people like that were like, you have to have a rest day.
You have to have a rest day. So then I really had to double
down on no days off has never taken a day off on you.
So it can be a rest test day. Like that's still part of taking

(01:00:51):
no days off. It's not like you wake up and
say, I'm just not going to do anything today.
So or if you do, then it's that's what you chose to do.
So no days off is not like the hustle and the grind and never
getting a day off. So that's not what it's about.
But I had to like, it took like a decade before people actually
bought into that. And then I needed the swoosh,
right? I needed something that was the

(01:01:13):
badge, something that was recognizable, something that as
soon as they saw it, they were like no days off.
And that's where the so I drew that and, and like that was my
Nike swoosh. And then Artemis passed away
three months after I came up with that.
And then a buddy of mine found the same bloodline and was like,

(01:01:33):
you know, do you want to buy him?
And so when he came down, he was10 months old and I named him
Legacy. I have a blue.
Stafford. Stafford.
Oh yes, Blue. Staffy.
Yeah. It was one of the smartest dogs
in the world. Yeah, she's.
So smart. So smart, almost too smart for
their own good. And then I had Monita was the
white one. And it's weird because it's the
first time in my life I don't have a dog, but I have two kids.

(01:01:56):
So it's like I'm, I want to be patient with it and let them be
at an age they can help. And, and, but I, I'm such a dog
person that it's, it's like weird driving my truck and not
having the dog licking me in theair or trying to get in my lap.
Like Artemis would literally getin my lap.
Same. While I'm driving, Yeah, Ruby,
Ruby has to be like, she just needs to make sure everything

(01:02:16):
she knows everything's going on.Yeah, she's.
Yeah, it's our. First time having one time and
pit. Bulls were what got my mom.
So my mom was attacked by two German shepherds when she was
pregnant with me and fell down the stairs and they jumped on
top of her. So she was horrified of dogs.
Like horrified. And so I told her I got a
Pitbull and she was like, don't even think about coming home,

(01:02:39):
you know, And I came home from college and had this, you know,
2 year old Pitbull and she locked herself.
My mom locked herself in the room was like, I'm not coming
out By by the end of the trips, Artemis was sleeping in the bed
of a moment. Oh my God.
To this day, my mom's. Like like I have to have a
Pitbull so does she have one or is she?
Gonna get Yeah, she well, she had.
One, yeah, yeah. And then circumstances, we had

(01:03:02):
to give her up, but. But now she's ready for her next
one. That's awesome.
Yeah. So it's cool.
That's funny you said that. About the logo, I mean, I made
solid cores logo and back on my feet's logo, you know, even like
then, then. And it's like people can spend
hundreds of thousands of dollarson these things and you're like,
you know, there's just it's likeone of my models is there's more
than one right answer. Yeah.

(01:03:23):
You know, and like, yeah, you could take this and someone
might say it has to be this and has to be that, but like at some
things just need to be good enough.
You do also. Have like people that just right
flat out tell you like that that's not going to work, of
course like. I mean.
Literally people were like like hated the dog were like that
doesn't even make any sense, youknow, like that's the kind of
shit I'm like, well, even. Now when I see.

(01:03:43):
It like just everywhere right you know, especially like we're
the official pre water the MiamiHeat.
So when I I know it's just. There I said that I'm like, so
cool to. Like, and I'm like told you,
right? Right, I know well the brackets,
some people are like doesn't make sense, like it doesn't make
sense and like, but if I look atthe brackets, you're looking
looking at it as a grammar. I'm looking at it as brackets
are like obliques and they're community and togetherness and

(01:04:06):
tightness and like bring it all in.
So that's why the brackets existed.
I think I read. A story too where y'all
sweatshirt was like the most wanted item in like for I don't
know, it was there was an interesting article on y'all
sweatshirt that you would sell that like people were obsessed

(01:04:27):
over it like they had to have it.
It's because you. Had to earn it, you know?
Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.
So we took. All of the retail, I mean if you
guys are doing retail, I'm killing it.
That's great. We could never figure it out and
that's we had like 77 locations.Yeah, and I'm.
Like get this shit out of the studios, the, the, the staff
hate doing the inventory. We have to pay for it.

(01:04:47):
We never make any money up it. It gets stolen.
Like we're just putting it online.
We'll do special things. And so when they actually this,
I cannot take credit for this, but they're like, let's do a, a,
a sweatshirt that will be, you know, you have to earn it.
And the only way you earn it is through a tough time in the year
for us, which is over the holidays, where people just kind
of fall off working out. And so they do this solid days

(01:05:08):
challenge where in those sixteendays, if you take X amount of
classes, you earn the sweatshirt.
So yeah, like you cannot buy it.I'm.
Stealing that? Yeah, you.
Should steal it. You know the 29 or 29 event?
Have you heard of this? The What Event 29, No 20. 9 No
SO. It's the.
We did this last year. It's the equivalent of Everest

(01:05:28):
to the same elevation. So you get 36 hours to climb.
It's a mountain somewhere in Canada or the States.
They do it at like 8 or 10 different ones. 1/3 of people
just don't finish. And when you finish, they give
you a Red Hat and the only way you can get that hat is if you
finish the event. So it's kind of like when you
see people with the Red Hat, you're like, I know what we went
through to get this. Very smart.
That's really. Cool.

(01:05:48):
Yeah. All right.
You said you love to speak and you'll be returning to speak at
your high school school soon. That's kind of cool.
Oh, I did that. You did it already.
Yeah, How was it? Those kids were tough.
It's much easier speaking to adults.
But like, kids are rowdy and they are, you know, they're not
thinking about their futures andcareers.
So it's, it's a good challenge to go back and keep their
attention. Yeah, for 45 minutes.

(01:06:09):
But, you know, in my mind, I'm like, if I can just reach 10
kids out of the hundreds that are in here that think about
that, their life could look different.
And, you know, there's my particular high school now.
It's a little how the lot lines were drawn.
It's the part of Bismarck that isn't as affluent as the other
high school. So these kids, again, are coming

(01:06:31):
from homes that look similar to mine, which, you know, may be
addiction, divorce. And you start to think like, you
know, oh, I have a disadvantage or, you know, I don't have two
parents around or something. So I just wanted to provide a
little inspiration for don't letthat stop you or slow you down
again. Use whatever fuel or pain that
you feel into making your life great.

(01:06:53):
So yeah, it was good, as I guarantee you.
You you change someone's perspective in there, I
guarantee. You because all it takes.
Is 1, you know? Yeah, 1.
Person just doing things I had the opportunity to.
Go back and and speak to the football team at my high school
and it was awesome. It was awesome because it was so
surreal to be in the same lockerroom on the same field, you
know, 20 years later and having the same feeling.

(01:07:16):
And that's what I was trying to tell them is like, you will
never, ever be in this situationagain.
And like, but we don't think about that when we're in the
situation. Like, of course not when you're
1516 years old, you're not thinking, well, this is the last
time I'm going to be in the locker room.
You don't think like that. But man, if you could go back
and tell your younger self that,then you probably would play

(01:07:36):
harder, go after the ball more. Like, you know, you'd give way
more effort because it's becausethat's it.
That's all you get. Yeah, I played.
Sports too. And I think I sports are just
such so defining for me, right? Like I was the only senior on my
basketball team having to be theleader.
Like, yeah, I just working as a team when someone wasn't playing

(01:07:56):
well, how to have those conversations?
Literally being on sports and being a waitress were two very
formative things in my life. Like being a waitress back in
North Dakota when I was 16. Different people, right?
I got to figure out how to, how to make you like me so you'll
tip me. I got to like, remember your
order. I have to multitask.
I've got 5 different tables. How do I make sure I get
everything done? Like it was an incredible job

(01:08:18):
for me as I got older and, and had a bunch to do it like being
ACEO, you think the same way? What's the most efficient way
for me to do something right? Yeah, I.
Think sports for me. And then also personal trainer,
being a personal trainer, because especially when you're
doing it for professional athletes, because you're not
just their trainer, you're theirconcierge, their bodyguard,
their yeah, I mean, nutritionists, I mean, they make

(01:08:39):
you do everything right or you want to, or if you're good, you
do everything. Yeah.
So that was such a, it prepared me for a lot.
A lot. So good.
So I'm gonna ask you a question.What's the what's the plan with
the company? What are you hoping to?
What's the well I was hoping? You'd walk in just be so blown
away that you just like, I want to get involved with you so.
Not a bad plan. I mean, it's an impressive
office. So it, it's interesting now I

(01:09:05):
have like this, this brand, you know, it's, it's, it's bigger
than gyms, it's bigger than apparel, it's bigger than did it
start as just water? Or start as gyms.
Start as gyms. See, I didn't.
I thought. I thought I started as water
because the water brands are big.
So I I opened my first gym November 2008.
OK. And then that became kind of
infamous for training. How old were you?

(01:09:26):
I was. Psalm 47 OK, So what I was 3430
in my young 30s, I guess early 30s, young 30s.
Was that Yeah, young 30s, young 30s.
This is my young 30s. And it was, it was right around
the time that personal training studios were like the thing,

(01:09:48):
like there was a personal training studio called me.
There was like all these personal training studios.
And then 2008 was right after the recession.
So it was like personal trainingwas actually on the decline.
But I had already built up like a massive professional athlete
clientele, you know, I was kind of like a celebrity trainer when

(01:10:09):
before, you know, when it was actually a thing to be a
celebrity. And now everybody's a celebrity
trainer. And I mean, I was training like
Scott Stapp, the lead singer, Creed Usher, you know, Rico
love, like people like that. And so I thought, get four other
people that do what I do and then I have a business, you
know, well, 19 trainers later and I was like, I can't even

(01:10:32):
find one other person that worksfrom 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM and
trains people all day in the middle of the hood, by the way,
because it was Wynwood before itwas Wynn Hood, it was before
Wynn Wood, you know, and, and then that was right around the
time CrossFit and Orangetheory and Berries was like making
noise. And I was like, I think I could
do that. And so that's when I created HIT

(01:10:54):
Partner interval training and itwas actually through boot camps.
So I started these boot camps onTuesdays and Thursdays at 5:00
PM and, and make a Long story short, 128 people started
showing up for them. But then it got chaotic because
I had so many people and I was like, I'm only one person that
was running around like a chicken with my head cut off.
And, and so then I started pairing people up.

(01:11:18):
And then one day after pairing people up, I turned 100 people
basically into 50. And I started looking at the
room and people were like high fiving each other and, and
encouraging each other and motivating each other and
changing each other's weights. And I was like, OK, this is
something. And then so that that was in my
head already. And then I double, I used to
double book clients on purpose so I'd make more money.

(01:11:40):
And so I double booked Marion Barber, who was the Dallas
Cowboys running back with this over overweight woman.
And I put him through the same workout, the exact same workout.
So you had this elite professional athlete training
with this overweight woman. And obviously they did different
weights, but they did the exact same movements, the exact same
workout. And then the light bulb just
went off and I was like, I can do this and like scale it.

(01:12:02):
And so then I started like, you know, pen to paper.
And I read Michael Gerber's E Myth seminar of how to create
systems and procedures and how to not work in the business, but
work out of the business, you know, that whole thing.
And so I started writing down like, OK, we're going to do 20
stations, 2 minutes to station, 30 seconds in between each
station. You go, your partner goes, you

(01:12:23):
go, your partner goes, they, your work is their rest, Their
rest is your work. You're going to hold each other
accountable. You're going to motivate each
other, going to change each other's reps.
And so I created did this thing where even though you're 1
trainer, you damn near have 20 other trainers in the room, you
know, coaching everybody. And then I've made it very
militant. Like from a standpoint of like,

(01:12:43):
you know, we make people, it's all science behind this.
Like, you know, arm around your partner, you know, what is this?
And everybody screams pit. And then, you know, what does
pit stand for? And then everybody screams
partner interval training. So it creates that kind of like
we're working together. And and then I did what
everybody told me not to do. I stopped being the coach.
So I absolutely so a guy told methis will never work when you

(01:13:05):
stop coaching. And he owned 33 Planet Fitnesses
and he was like, you care too much.
You know, as soon as you're removed it, it will fall apart.
So I was like, OK, I'm done coaching.
So I literally stopped coaching and started pouring into other
people and really teaching them the systems.
And then next thing I know it, it started to grow and, and, and

(01:13:26):
then we opened our second location in Coral Gables.
And this is kind of, you know, gone from there.
And then, but, but I'm in an interesting place because 2020,
so I thought I was going to be the F45, the orange theories,
the berries of the world. And when 2020 happened, I just
saw a heightened sense of awareness of community,

(01:13:47):
connection and Wellness. And I thought that places where
you just go to sweat were kind of like not that they're not
going to be successful, but I just thought that people are
going to want more now. And so that's when I kind of
shifted my vision for the brand and went to more of these
flagship style locations. So we have satellite locations,

(01:14:07):
which is just the pit, just the workout.
And then we have flagship locations like this, which is
Wynwood, Fort Lauderdale, this and we'll be Nashville.
So they're the all like Co working space spa, cold plunges,
you know, a little bit more amenity driven physical therapy
on site, massage on site, basically where I say the longer
the linger, the stronger the member.

(01:14:27):
So like get them to stay, get them to, you know, connect with
people. And that's really the vision for
it's kind of like a, you know, Ilove lifetime, but I think like
lifetime's a little like corny to me.
So I wanted like a cool version of Lifetime, you know?
And Lifetime has a variety of members.
You look like you have people inthe air who, like, really train.

(01:14:47):
Not not so yes and no, you know,I still think we're we appeal to
the to the because if you saw five AMI mean, you know, it was
actually I love this is like a guy came up to me.
He's super out of shape, super overweight, and he came up to me
as like, I lost everything and I'm here to change my life, you
know, So we still get that too, you know, and not everybody is

(01:15:08):
like jacked and fit and like you're, you know, you're seeing
the. Influencers in here right now,
you know, looking all great. And stuff.
But but yeah, so the vision is definitely only quality over
quantity when it comes to the gyms.
So if every single box is not checked, because when you do 2
to $3,000,000 facilities, you don't want to be in a bad lease.
You don't want to be where you're spending too much of your

(01:15:30):
own money, especially in a leasesituation.
So I'm getting developed. I'm trying to get developers to
pay for most of everything and then get and then pick spots
that are not quite there yet. You know, as you can see, Little
River is not quite there yet, but in three years it will be
the next swimwood, right? So same thing in Nashville.
We went to Germantown. That is the next kind of big,

(01:15:53):
big area of, of Nashville. So identifying places that are
not quite, you know, the $75 a square foot, like find them
where there's more like $25 a square foot.
So you can actually be a successful, you know, company.
So that's for that. And then the beverages, I mean,
I want to be the absolute premium water choice of every

(01:16:14):
single person on the planet really like it's this has been a
fascinating business to jump into.
It's like playing chess every day.
If to drive desirability availability at the exact same
time you can't out kick your coverage you get crushed In CPG
raising money has been like they're very.
Different businesses, yeah, yeah.
Are they all underneath the sameto separate them?

(01:16:36):
OK, separate them out. Yeah, so.
And then half apparel, which as you know, is a nightmare.
So right now I'm just using apparel as more marketing as
like merch, you know, like helping like walking billboards,
you know, stuff like that. Yeah, advertising, but but this
is the golden ticket. I would definitely say is is
something that I can see us building a billion dollar brand

(01:16:57):
like mainly with the water. We have a very similar kind of
poppy story, you know that we can see played out, right.
Obviously we have to execute, but we are we got signed with
the largest beer distributor in the country Reyes Holdings.
So that has kind of been our game plan is to really focus on
on premise. So we're we call it an immediate
consumption anywhere can sit down and pop open, you know, pop

(01:17:19):
open this can and drink it is where you know, so it's a little
different than going the retail route.
And and so we're kind of openingthe eyes up to people.
We're doing it a different way. Yeah, yeah.
Are you guys going to stick withjust sparkling and for flat
flavors in this can? Is special.
It's a, it took me about a year and a half to to make sure it

(01:17:40):
was the perfect blend of electrolytes, the perfect purity
so that it's the process like it's a seven step reverse
osmosis process that takes it down to the one Micron.
We hit it with ultraviolet light, tonal pasteurization.
So we're stripping out all the impurities and right now, I
mean, we've tested every single water on the market, like 400
page test, and there's somethingbad in every single water.

(01:18:03):
Every single water, there's something, whether it's P Foz,
microplastics, toxins, metals, like every single water out
there has something bad in it. And what I think it stems from
is the planet. You know, at the end of the day,
if you think about premium waters, they're coming from the
springs, the wells, the mountains, the icelands, the air
and all this stuff. And at the end of the day, us

(01:18:24):
humans, we've been destroying the planet so long, there's
really no such thing as pure water anymore.
So I think we're probably the first premium brand to actually
do it through a process and, andput it through that.
Cool. And we're coming out with glass
bottles. So that's another direction
because I think that's, if you really want to be premium, you
have to, you have to do glass. So we're doing that.

(01:18:44):
But yeah, I don't know if that answered your question, but that
that's no, yeah. It's it's, it's interesting,
yeah. It's interesting because
they're, they're very separate businesses.
Running a gym and running a water company.
Yeah, very. It's definitely it's.
Definitely different, but I willsay from the brand level is
something that so my vision has always been, have you ever seen
pay it Ford the movie Pay it Ford, I'm sorry, aging muscle, I

(01:19:06):
think, I think I've heard. Of that movie, but I don't know
if it's but basically just. Creating a movement, you know,
creating something that people can attach to the lives.
Anywhere that goes beyond a product, beyond a brick and
mortar thing, beyond beyond likea sales thing, like that's
something that's tangible that people can attach to the lives
that for me is what's going to take this to the moon.

(01:19:28):
And the more people that can live this know that no days off
life, then eventually everythingelse will will work out and that
and we're starting to see that like we're starting to to see
people like, I mean, the amount of, you know, people testimonies
that people are like, you know, no days off, you know, right.
So, but it's an identity you're.Creating an identity for for for
self identity. If you see someone with a shirt
on that says no days off you, you've created a brand that's

(01:19:51):
like this is the type of person that you are so different than
if I see someone with this all, of course, sure, I'm like, I
know, I know who you are. Like no one does that work out
if you're not ambitious, if you're not killing it in your
career, if you don't like to work hard, if you don't want to
challenge yourself, like if you go and try like that's just not
for me. It's too hard.
That's fine. But if you are someone who says
I've done 100 solid work class this year, I'm like, I, I know

(01:20:13):
the type of person you are. So that's what you're doing
with. It's it's an identity.
You're you're letting people signal this is the kind of
person I am because the brand represents it.
And I want to show myself that I'm this person, too.
Or show the world. Yeah.
Exactly. Well, thank you so much.
Yeah, man, My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
And it's Yeah, it. I'll take one of these to go

(01:20:33):
too. No, we're going to give you.
Some cases, so yeah.

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The Hard Truth About Being an Entrepreneur & CEO: [solidcore] Founder Anne Mahlum | S3, Ep 14.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Hard Truth About Being an Entrepreneur & CEO: [solidcore] Founder Anne Mahlum | S3, Ep 14.