April 12, 2024 • 41 mins
When Howard Young entered the mental health field, little did he know that his journey would lead him to revolutionize police K9 training. This episode peels back the layers of Howard's three-decade story, from his initial fascination with Rottweilers to becoming an authority in the canine training world. Alongside sharing my own experiences with Rocky, my beloved Rottweiler, we delve into the nuances of dog training, debunk breed misconceptions, and underscore the importance of preparing our four-legged partners for every scenario imaginable.
If you've ever wondered what it takes to transform an eager pup into an elite law enforcement K9, this episode is your backstage pass. We examine the meticulous selection process, the full spectrum of training, and the ongoing commitment required to fashion these canines into confident, adaptable, and reliable officers. From understanding the value of environmental soundness to maintaining the agility of these canine athletes, the conversation with Howard sheds light on the intricate world of K9 units that often remains hidden from public view.
Rounding off our discussion, Howard and I celebrate the power of podcasts to forge connections and champion the spirit of community within the dog industry. Reflecting on the growth of my show, Working Dog Depot, I share the transformative journey from its humble beginnings to a platform that now resonates with a wider audience. As we express gratitude for the insights Howard and his wife have brought into our lives, we leave listeners with an open-hearted invitation to engage, question, and join us in honoring the human-canine bond that enriches our lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One of the things that kind of manifested itself
from that was the two of theteams were really really lacking
and in my recommendation Irecommended that they go back
for some remedial training.
It was at that point he calledme into his office and said I'd
like to offer you a job.
So it was a unique situationthat I don't know that any
police departments that werehiring young civilian males to
(00:20):
basically take their canineprogram and run with it and fast
forward 30 years.
I'm still doing it and I'vepicked up some other agencies.
We've had several changes ofpolice chiefs and we've just
become a very integral part ofour community and that police
department and now our localsheriff's office as well Just
never look back what is going oneverybody?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
welcome back to the big dog Background.
But I got a good friend of mine.
The best beard in the dogbusiness is with us this morning
, Howard Young with White Beard.
Canine Howard, how are you,buddy?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'm very well.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Man, I'm just excited to have you on here.
You know, I guess we met at myfacility a couple of years ago
at a Steve Stoops seminar.
Yes, indeed yes, that he did aSteve Stoops seminar.
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes, that he did.
You guys, you and your wife,were up from North Carolina,
right, yes, we were.
Yes, we have known, we haveknown Steve a pretty long time
and when he went off to do hisarmy thing he really was, we
really lost touch.
So it was a unique opportunityto kind of get together and see
him again.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, that was a wild time, that was a fun, fun
couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, that was cool.
We met so many great people andyou and your wife are a part of
that and we've been talkingabout ever since like doing a
show together.
And you know, life just doesits thing and runs.
You retired now since then.
Right, because you weren'tretired at the seminar.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So really I've had several things going on for the
past 30 some years, but the dogbusiness has always been kind of
a secondary thing.
Yeah, so I was a mental healthprofessional for about 22 years
and then I was in publiceducation for a number of years
and that's what I ended upretiring from, and the whole
purpose of that was to be ableto do more dog-related things
before I get too old anddecrepit to be able to do it
(02:23):
anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So how did you get into the dog world?
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it's a unique situation in that when I got out
of college, the first thing Iwanted to do was get a dog.
I was really interested inworking dogs and Rottweilers
were my breed of choice at thetime and that was my.
I had German Shepherds growingup but I really wanted a
Rottweiler and at that time inthe early 80s, they weren't very
well known, at least in thiscountry.
(02:50):
So it wasn't that difficult tofind some good working dogs
still and I got involved with aSchutzen actually it wasn't
Schutzen Club yet, it was with agentleman that trained some
police dogs and it was one ofthose perfect storm situations
being there the right time.
He had a decoy that had justleft and I was young and fit
enough to do it and eager tolearn.
(03:11):
So I started learning how to dothat and he also trained a
number of protection dogs.
But he introduced me to thisboard of Schutzen and we started
a club and, not to make a superlong story out of this, I
started having some of the localpolice officers saw some of the
work I was doing and theystarted coming by with problems,
mainly engagement issues anddogs that just didn't bite well
(03:35):
and they didn't have greatcontrol.
So they started coming to, someof them on the sly, which was
not real cool, I guess.
Some of them on the sly, whichwas not real cool, I guess.
But what ended up happening isthat the local new police chief
wanted me to evaluate the fourteams they had and I put
together some scenarios that Ifelt like were fair and one of
the things that kind ofmanifested itself from that was
(03:58):
the two of the teams were reallyreally lacking and in my
recommendation I recommendedthat they go back for some
remedial training.
It was at that point he calledme into his office and said I'd
like to offer you a job.
So it was a unique situationthat I don't know that any
police departments that werehiring young civilian males to
basically take their canineprogram and run with it and fast
(04:19):
forward 30 years.
I'm still doing it and I'vepicked up some other agencies.
We've had several changes ofpolice chiefs and we've just
become a very integral part ofour community and that police
department and now our localsheriff's office as well, and
just never look back.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And so so talk to me about whatis the?
I mean, obviously you weretalking about kind of like your,
your professional.
You know, course, you knowthrough your life the things you
were doing, and the commondenominator between all of those
are selflessness and service,areas of service and kind of
having to excel in those fields.
And particularly with whatyou're doing now with the dogs
(04:58):
and work with the departments,there is this servant's heart
aspect.
You know if you will, and sokind of talk about how, as
you're, as you're coming up, youknow through your life,
professionally, the dog thingwas never the primary thing, it
was like the secondary thing.
But how did those passions,were they over to overlap?
And when did you know the dogsyou needed to get yourself in a
(05:19):
position to go primarily withthe dogs.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Well, I think one of the ways that I've been able to
stay so I never experiencedburnout, and I think some of
that was because that has alwaysbeen kind of a secondary thing
that I've done.
But I would say in terms ofthis, I learned a lot in my job
as a mental health professional.
I worked in a rehabilitationprogram for folks with severe
(05:43):
persistent mental illnesses, soillnesses like schizophrenia,
bipolar disorder and majordepression.
We operated a program thatfollowed a model that was kind
of unique in and of itself.
It was out of New York City, aplace called Fountain House, and
when you think abouttraditional mental health you
think about providing a serviceto help people get better.
(06:03):
But the reality is we'redealing with illnesses that many
people don't really everrecover from.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
They're.
They're they're lifelongillnesses and you go to mental
health for treatment, andtreatment is a is a vital part
of what needs to happen.
But really, where the where thetire hits, the hits the road is
is the rehabilitation part.
And that's where we came in isthat we had a program that by
design, the lines were kind ofblurred between the staff
(06:31):
members and actually we refer toit as a club.
So it was a voluntary programand we at one point in our small
community had upwards of 70people coming a day and it was a
model for the state.
So we did a tremendous amountof training ourselves.
But what was unique about it isthat it focused on people's
talents and skills rather thandeficits, and that was really.
(06:54):
The major difference is that weweren't interested in what was
wrong with you.
We wanted to find out whatskills you had and put it to use
.
So as you would come to thisprogram, you would see people
that were actively involved inthe running of it.
So we had a snack bar, we had akitchen that provided lunch
every day, we had a clericalunit that put out a newsletter
(07:16):
and assisted with billing, andit was just a phenomenally run
place and I think it's funniestthat when your typical mental
health professional thinks abouta voluntary program, they would
think that people wouldn't comeor they wouldn't do anything.
But here, on a rainy let's say,a rainy Monday morning and
you've got 70 people that showedup that had a choice of rolling
(07:39):
over and going back to sleepand just drawing their
disability check.
So you know, there were somepowerful things that were going
on there and it was just a itreally it was a place that
taught me the, I guess, thevalue of people, regardless of
their station in life orregardless of what's going on in
their lives, and to treat, youknow, everyone with dignity and
respect, and I think that'sthat's carried over probably the
(08:01):
most in terms of, you know,just dealing with people in
general.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Right, you know it's funny.
It's, you know, the thing yousaid about focusing on their
strengths, interests, passions,rather than letting the focus be
on their deficits, when a lotof folks in those situations
whether it's something that's aseason of life or it is a
lifelong illness challenge thatthey're going to have most
(08:26):
people don't approach them ortreat them from that aspect.
The focus is solely on thedeficit, and it's either, you
know, brushing people aside,dismissing them, definitely not
treated with respect.
A lot of times, you see it, andthe thing that's not ha ha
funny, but funny is thecorrelation between people and
dogs in that regard, and youknow, in in my world, in the dog
(08:49):
world I'm not on the workingdog side, I'm all pets, but so
often, all we're hearing frompeople are the deficit of these
dogs, and you got to take, yougot to fix this, you got to do
this and you got to do that.
You know and it's so funnybecause it's it we're not curing
cancer here, you know.
Know, I mean, we're both.
Well, what we are doing, though, is we're getting these dogs.
(09:10):
We're folks.
What do you do, well, what doyou enjoy?
What gets your confidence up,what gets you more engaged with
me and it's funny how so oftenthe deficit, a lot of these
times with these dogs, we seeisn't something that's cured,
it's a managed thing, right, butit becomes so much more
manageable when the dog realizesthere's more to them than the
(09:30):
deficit.
But if all your, if all wefocused on from a handling
standpoint was deficit, deficit,deficit, deficit, deficit,
you're gonna have a broke down,beaten down, skittish dog, just
as you would a person or a kidwho was treated that way.
And now they're an adult andyou wonder why.
You know they can't be inrelationships, they can't
(09:52):
communicate, they can't hold ajob, they can't, you know, do
anything society would deemworthwhile, but they've just
been told over and over againthat they're not worthwhile,
brutal, and we see that with thedogs all the time, all the time
.
So on the working dog side, Iknow you had that interest, you
got those rotties.
I have a roddy myself.
(10:12):
Um, we've got rocky.
He's about 140, he looks like afreaking wine barrel.
But he doesn't look like a winebarrel, he's actually just just
jacked and he's an athlete.
I trained him when he was a pupand I fell in love with him and
I told the owners when I tookhim back to him at the end of
training.
Look guys, if life ever happensand you can't keep this dog I'm
(10:35):
your first phone call and theywere a little older and her
parents are much like in their90s and they ended up moving in
with them.
And old Rocky, you know, he was10 months old when I trained
him and he was about three orfour when I got the phone call
from him and he had just leanedagainst her mama, not anything
just and she went toppling overand her father was ready to kill
(10:56):
the dog.
Like actually had a shotgun.
I was going to kill the dog.
So she calls me like bring himto me.
And now my wife has a hugerottweiler.
That is my wife's dog throughand through, but we've always
had rotties and grew up withthem.
They're amazing dogs.
I love them.
Our house looks ridiculous.
So we have this, thisrottweiler the size of a tank.
We have a 53 pound littlehunting lab, charlotte, and then
(11:18):
we just got this miniatureaustralian labradoodle.
She's a year and so we looklike the weirdest house on the
street because we've got from,you know, terror and rocky to
this little like build-a-bearthing walking around.
And here I am, big old beardedguy carrying this little doodle
puppy.
But it's the funniest thing.
She's the dog I never knew Ineeded and she's just a great,
(11:42):
great little dog.
Um, but I I try to imagine likeman.
You are really convenient.
You don't shed, you don'tbarrel through the house like a
bull in a china shop.
Rocky's a very good dog, buthe's a grown man.
It's like another grown manliving in the house and you know
Roddy's and their personalitiesand you got to earn it every
day with them.
But I was like man.
(12:06):
I really can't imagine a timein my life where I wouldn't want
to not have Rottweilers.
I just I love them.
I love them.
They're wonderful dogs,incredible dogs.
What's your crew look like now?
What are you?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
you still running some Rotties or no, no, haven't
had Rottweiler in a good longwhile.
We do have a Dutch Shepherdthat is.
That is really quite a handfulTypical Dutch Shepherd.
He was very slow to mature, buthe's a force.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What are you finding?
So I know you work with severaldifferent agencies.
You're working with that localdepartment still that you've
worked with for years.
What are some of the biggestchanges you've kind of seen in
the industry over the last?
You know, 10, 15, 20 years?
You know whether it's education, whether it's dogs, whether
it's ongoing training, Cause Ithink that's an important thing
(12:54):
that people don't really realize.
They see, this is most people'sunderstanding of a canine in
lawn.
For they see the car drive by,they see canine sticker on it
and like, Ooh, they got one ofthose cool dogs.
And I've seen horror stories ofdogs that were ill prepared,
that weren't trained Well, theydidn't have the background.
Or my favorite is I get thephone call hey, I got a German
(13:18):
shepherd I need, I need it to bea protection dog.
Hey, I got myself one of theseBelgian malinois and I want you
to train it to to protect myfamily.
I hold on, You're so off baseright now.
Well, German shepherd, what doyou mean?
It can't do it?
Like, well, there's a lot ofthings that go into this.
(13:38):
And well, I'm just going todonate it to the police
department if you won't stoppeeing in the house.
And I'm like hold on, Can youlike how people think about this
?
And I don't necessarily thinkthey realize the importance of
the training and relevanttraining that goes into the dogs
.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Sure, you know, I like to think that what we try
to procure for the agencies arereally the professional athletes
of the dog world, and in thatwe're looking for dogs that are
obviously environmentally sound.
And more specifically, what Imean by that is that, regardless
of where they are, where theygo, they kind of either are
neutral to the environment orthey're confident in the way
(14:20):
they carry themselves.
So they have to be exposed toslick floors, all varieties of
stairs, possibly an elevator,loud noises, and we really don't
get too terribly concerned ifthere's a little bit of a
reaction.
It's just how quick do theyrecover from that reaction,
right?
It's just how quick do theyrecover from that reaction,
(14:41):
right?
So in some cases, you know,we're getting dogs Well, we are
getting most of our dogs fromEurope, in fact almost all of
them, and we don't really knowhow they've been raised.
You can kind of surmise thelonger you have it, you can tell
if it's been raised in a homeor if it's been raised in a
setting where the only thingit's really ever seen is a green
(15:01):
grass in a field.
So those dogs it's nice to havethat information up front
because they may encounter theirfirst vacuum cleaner on wheels
and that's the freakiest thingthey've ever seen in their lives
and they might have a reactionto that.
But day two they might go nobig deal I've seen it before.
(15:22):
So those are the kind of thingsthat we have to consider and
what we bank on is that thosethings have been sorted out
before we ever lay eyes on thecandidates.
Yeah, so I've used a number ofvendors here in the States over
the years, but the last probablyfive or six years I've been
relying on a gentleman in Europeand I've bought them primarily
(15:43):
just through video.
But more importantly is a yearand a half relationship of
talking about what I need.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And a little measure, well, a big measure of trust in
that he's not going to send mea dog that I can't use, and so
far he's really he's been likesix for seven on terms of dogs
and to me that's vitallyimportant and to have that
relationship at this point, this, this would be somebody, if he
(16:13):
came to the States, I'd welcomein my home.
You know you can stay here, butthere are plenty of people out
there that want to takeadvantage or, and the people
that are eager to you knoweasily taken advantage of, right
.
So during that year and a halfI wanted him to know many things
, I wanted him to know who I was, and it would not behoove him
to send me anything thatwouldn't be good, right Cause
(16:35):
the word's going to get outAbsolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So now you're helping agencieswith placement, you're helping
agencies with ongoing training.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat that looks like.
How often are you going in andmaybe like certifying or
recertifying or helping teamsget you know?
Maybe something happened.
You need to help get them backin the game a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So my primary position really is two contracts
with the local agencies, andthe way I like to look at that
is that I don't know that Ireally want to be in the
business of just procuring dogsfor different agencies.
I want to have hands-on fromthe very beginning and then
throughout the career.
So in our contracts webasically provide the training,
we procure the dog, we providethe training and the training.
(17:19):
We basically provide thetraining.
We procure the dog, we providethe training and the training
once we start never ends.
So an example is tonight I'llhave a group of gentlemen and we
meet one agency I meet withtwice a week and the other one
once a week.
So we get at least 16 hours oftraining in a month typically
(17:40):
more.
And I think that's really beenthe secret sauce in some
respects, because a lot oftraining groups are set up so
that they meet once or twice amonth.
I prefer to have the weeklycontact, if not twice a week
contact, and even though it'snot a full eight-hour day, I
think we probably accomplishmore in four hours than a lot of
people do in an eight hour day.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
To start factoring in breaks and lunch and errands
yeah, it's so interesting to mewithin that world there, because
you think about when these dogsare going to work and you're
talking about, like the proathlete of the dog world you're,
you're looking for, you knowyou need that elite animal who
(18:22):
not only physically is sound butmentally, emotionally, um, you
know it, you don't mind it.
You know getting caught offguard a little bit, but how
quickly does it respond, getback into the fight?
Uh, whatever it is, you knowhow quickly can it recover and
the importance of that.
You know if a dog is releasedto engage and that dog hesitates
(18:44):
, or that dog, you know, freaksout because it goes into a
building and it's a dark room ora dark corridor and it hasn't
seen these things before, right,you know it's, these dogs, it's
almost ill-prepared, are aliability, oh for sure, to the
officers on site.
You know to everybody, thesedogs, it's almost ill-prepared,
(19:05):
are a liability, oh for sure, tothe officers on site.
You know to everybody.
And you know the preparation andthe work that you're doing
weekly, you know, is what makessure that, hey, you can't
anticipate everything possible,but it's almost not necessary.
Once that dog is sound, youknow the dog's like, okay, yeah,
I've, I've, I've been aroundsomething like that before, or
(19:27):
you know, this, this smell, thissurface, this feeling, this I'm
getting hit, I'm getting thrown, I'm getting shoved, I'm
getting not a good bite, or youknow, even in the in the bite
work side that was one thethings with steve that was so
interesting to me during thatseminar was like he wasn't using
the suit, right like right, andI was.
I'm just sitting there andlogan, you know, I remember him
(19:49):
saying too, he's like holy crap,he's just like offering his his
shirt you know.
And here's this dog going buckwild, ready to roll, and he goes
.
Well, hey look, your bad guy'snot gonna be running around in a
you know, full suit and now intraining.
But then there's differentvariations of the suits and all
this stuff.
But the real life, practicalsituations that you can get
(20:11):
those dogs into is just so vitalfor the safety and protection
of everyone the dog, the handler, the other teams on site, um,
and the bad guy.
You know that they're gettingafter.
You want that dog to respond.
You know appropriately.
What, um?
What do you find?
You know, with the dogs thatyou're looking for.
What are those ages?
(20:32):
You know that they come in oragency already has a dog.
What are the where?
Where are those dogs at?
How often are the dogs usuallyin service before they retire
them out?
You know what's that look like.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So you were wanting to know what some of the
differences are over the last 20years.
That's probably a primarydifference.
The age is much younger.
Okay, we used to get dogs thatwere two and sometimes three,
and really three years of agewas kind of used to be my cutoff
.
Now, if a dog has been sittingin Europe for two or three years
(21:04):
there, you got to be asking thequestion what's wrong with it?
Right, they wouldn't.
So we're getting dogs at a muchyounger age.
We've had a couple that we'vebrought in at 10 months, which
that's young, yeah, but thething is my process could take
upwards of six months.
So I don't mind taking ayounger dog and take my time
(21:24):
slow and develop it slowly andallow it to mature.
You know we bank on a good bitof generalization, which is what
you were talking about in termsof preparing the dog, and that
is a good portion of what we dois we try to and you've probably
heard this said before is thatwe look at it like we want to
give the dog certain picturesfor their portfolio and in that
(21:47):
portfolio they're going to havecertain things that they've seen
before that it's going to clickfor them.
Yeah, I've done this before,but what's interesting, though,
is that sometimes we have andit's not talked about enough, I
don't think is that there arefailures to engage, sometimes
early on, and it's typically asa result of not having the
(22:08):
appropriate number of pictures.
So, you know, we see dogs onsocial media that fail and
people go oh, that's terrible,you know, terrible training,
terrible dog.
Well, nine times out of 10,it's probably not the dog, it is
probably confusion.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And you mentioned the suit.
Yeah, that's equipment.
That's equipment to protect us.
Okay, for the dog, what it doesis that he figures out the game
.
I mean, they're masters ofassociation.
They can spot a suit a mileaway, right, yeah, if they've
seen one.
Yep, they could spot a suit amile away, right, yeah, if
they've seen one, yeah.
So, yes, we're.
We're constantly looking tofind ways to make the picture
(22:44):
look more realistic, yeah, andthere's all kinds of ways to do
that.
And you know, steve is veryentertaining in the way he does
that, but he's the shirt.
Yeah, the shirt thing I I'vedone here it's funny and I I got
it from him and the reaction isreally quite done here.
It's funny and I got it fromhim and the reaction is really
(23:06):
quite comical, because it's notas sketchy as it looks.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Right, right, you're paying attention.
You're a pro, you know whereyou're at.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Steve knows where he's at, he's put a lot of trust
in the person on the other sideof that line, though Well,
that's usually the comment thatI get is that they don't trust
anybody well enough to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, I thought the dog were worried about.
You know, I know what the dog'sgoing to do Exactly.
That's funny.
That's funny.
So you know what's the nextfive, 10 years look like you
know for for you and kind of thethe agencies you work with
there locally down in NorthCarolina, like what are those
priorities with those teams andthat you're really trying to
(23:44):
help them accomplish or levelsthat they get to.
You know, are you doing?
You know, are you doingtracking, trailing at all with
these teams?
Yes, so you're across the board.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, they do detection, they do tracking,
building search.
The big thing is that there'salways been a tremendous I'd say
tremendous, it's always beenturnover.
It's kind of expected,especially in a relatively small
agency.
So one of the things that canpossibly happen is that if a
gentleman or lady iscareer-minded and they get into
(24:14):
K-9, even if that's what they'vealways wanted to do, at some
point down the road whether it'sthree years, five years or
sometimes even less they'regoing to feel tugged to get
experience in other aspects ofthe agency.
Right, right, so what?
What that forces us to have todo is to find another suitable
handler and then start theprocess again.
So one of the things you wereasking about length of service
(24:37):
too, in terms of dogs, we've gota 10 year old Dutch shepherd.
He's going to be 10 in May andhe's not showing any signs of
slowing down.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
The way I look at it, he's trained five handlers in
his career.
That's crazy.
That's.
That's an, you know, an unusualnumber, but it's not unusual to
have at least two or threehandlers per dog, and if we'd
like to look at maybe a dogmaking it to at least his eighth
birthday um, depends on thebreed, you know, the back in the
(25:07):
day, the bigger, oldershepherds didn't, didn't hold up
as well.
Some of these hard chargingmalinois and duchies just don't
seem to ever slow down.
So right, yeah, you know, andlike with this dog, it's hard to
know.
We don't want to, we don't wantto run him into the ground, but
the reality is, is he's notlike a human?
He's not sitting aroundcounting the days till he
retires.
(25:27):
Right, he lived day to day.
He just wants to.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He's loving the game.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He is.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And if he's loving the game and wants to work and
physically he's able, I mean I'mwith you.
I mean let him do his deal.
Yeah, Cause there isn't thatclock in their mind.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Nope, that's a completely human construct.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I mean hell, from the dog's aspect.
The dog's probably thinking,hey, if I slow down, that's it
Right.
Like I can't slow down, I gotto keep going, I got to keep.
That's actually funny.
We were last night.
We have sunday supper at myhouse.
My mom, my grandmother, comeover.
You know, my kids are there andit's open.
Anybody who wants to come over,come over.
But typically it's just, youknow, the six or seven of us.
(26:10):
And my grandmother was talkingabout a friend of hers, uh,
who's just been in and out ofthe hospital last couple years
or last couple months, and she'sgetting pretty nervous because
she's like, ah, I just don'thave a good feeling about this,
you know.
And she's getting prettynervous Cause she's like, ah, I
just don't have a good feelingabout this, you know, and she's
in her eighties and, um, cause,this is why you can't stop
moving, got to keep moving, yougot to keep.
You know, my grandmother, she,you know, she goes to exercise
(26:30):
like twice a week and, you know,does her little dances at the
house and you know, and she'salways running and gunning and
doing something, but she goes,yeah, she goes.
You got you stop moving.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Everything's going to stop working, you know and
there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know that she was talking about her friend.
She was like yeah, she has alot of health issues and smoke
for seven, 60 years and you knowall this other stuff and
whatever which is eventually itcatches up to you and she goes
yep, and that's why she goes.
I don't even take tylenol,never had to have a surgery,
never had.
She's 86 years old, she's neverhad a surgery, never broken a
bone, and she's wild like.
She is a wide-ass, open lady,she's the best.
(27:08):
But she, she's like just gottakeep moving, just gotta keep
moving.
And I'm like dang, you weretalking about that dutchie and
I'm like that's mom, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Buddy told me, emotion is lotion.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, that's amazing, that's incredible.
So what do you got big going oncoming up?
Anything on the calendar, anybig events or anything like that
?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yes, Actually several Going to Georgia Columbus,
georgia for a decoy seminar in acouple weeks and then we've got
a trip to another decoy seminarin Indiana.
Then we've got Hold the LineConference in Myrtle Beach,
going back to Connecticut towork with the Connecticut State
Police on another decoy seminarand then going out to Colorado
(27:54):
for a seminar and then I've gotanother one in Indiana.
But we're busy.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I mean it's good.
Yeah, that's really great, andyou and the wife travel together
on these things.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, it's funny because she just retired too.
So she retired like a month agoand she initially was saying
she was going to go on all thesetrips she's already backing out
.
So she's going to be able, allthese trips she's already
backing out, so she's going tobe able to pick and choose what
she wants to go.
So I take a gentleman with meon most of these T-Clo workshops
.
That's Mike Santana, who is atrainer down in Georgia.
(28:27):
He was just a young guy who'sjust.
I think he's phenomenal, he'swe're we're very like-minded in
that we're both relatively quietand don't like to be standing
at the forefront.
So it's nice to have anadditional person there.
We kind of bounce off of eachother and I don't really feel
like I'm bringing him into thefold, but I do feel like he's a
talent that should be recognizedand utilized.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's great, and you've got a podcast also I do.
It's called the.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Working Dog Depot.
It's the Working Dog Depot.
I don't know what your venturewas like, but when we started we
floundered.
We did six episodes that werecorded on Skype and we didn't
have a clue what we were doing.
We didn't feel like we had anygood resources and then finally
it just died.
And then we made a secondattempt and we actually got it
resources and then finally wegot we just it just died.
(29:15):
And then we we made a secondattempt and we actually got it
going.
But what it took was reallyreaching out to some people and
just asking questions, specificquestions, and realizing that we
were going to have to pay forsome services.
Yeah, cause I tried editing anepisode and it was okay, but I
felt like the learning curve waslike, by the time I learned how
(29:35):
to do this and I tried to do itthe next time I'm starting all
over yeah, I didn't want to doso.
We are into our second year,we've got, we're actually we
have a recording with thegentleman in belgium uh, part
two tonight or this afternoon,because six hour difference,
sure, and uh, it's been, it'sbeen a lot of fun.
We've picked up some sponsors,that some really good folks and
(29:58):
well-named folks, which is neat,that's cool but it's really
geared, I guess, more toward Ithink canine handlers have
gravitated toward it the mostand in it, from the content
aspect, you can kind of see whythey're they're.
They're looking for answers andthey're looking for for more
information and, uh, both richand I are kind of low key.
(30:19):
We're not going to stand up andbeat our chest.
We, right, we want to hear whatour you know, our guests have
to say, because we certainlydon't know everything yeah, yeah
, that's good.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
No, I love it and I can totally relate when we I
mean, I talked about it foryears before I finally started
it and my thing was I was sohung up on everything needed to
sound right, look right, like Iwanted the studio to look a
certain way.
I mean, I was all the stuff Icared about really didn't matter
, right, the most importantthing is just starting and doing
(30:50):
it.
And but I was hung up on certainthings and so we did that and
now half time I'm not even inthe studio, I'm in my office,
like I am now from our placeover there and oh yeah, yeah,
you saw the, the setup, andwe're getting ready to change
that up because we're going tostart letting people use our
studio space and so we're movingit into a larger space to where
(31:12):
there'll be my setup studio,designed how I want it to be.
Anybody can use it, but thenthere's going to be a totally
different vibe on the other sideof the room that someone could
use and shoot and we have allthe cameras and lights and all
that stuff.
But half the time I'm just inmy office, you know, like this,
doing it, and it's it's justdoing it and it's good
(31:33):
conversations and the ones Ithought were going to be bangers
and just everybody's going tolove and my gosh it.
You know my mom and grandmalisten to it, right.
And then the one I think isgoing to kind of, you know,
might be okay, but there weresome little tidbits.
I'll get the greatest feedbackfrom people and I was like man,
that's really cool.
(31:54):
And the thing with the, theshow that I've always said I was
like man.
That's really cool.
And the thing with the showthat I've always said I was like
man.
If, if, out of the episode, I'mable to introduce somebody to
someone, or someone is able totake one thing out of it, one
thing out of it that that helpsthem.
One person gets one thing.
That's totally worth it to me.
It's totally worth it to me.
It's totally worth it to me.
It's worth the time If I canintroduce you know you, howard
(32:15):
Young, to, to, to my network andmy listeners and they can get
dialed in with your show andlearn more about you and what
you're doing.
They're going to get so muchvalue out of listening to you
and the interviews you have andand stuff like that's so worth
it to me and I just think thatyou know my show for the last
(32:37):
two years has not been dogdriven at all.
We don't talk dogs a whole lot.
We talk business, we talk life,we talk family, you know, and a
lot of it's business driven andentrepreneurial driven.
But it was never going to beabout the dog stuff.
But of late I'm like man a lotof the dog community really gets
on my nerves.
It's so split, it's so splitand I really want people to
(33:02):
realize the resources we have ineach other and it's always just
opportunities to learn.
And when you stop learning, Ithink it's the same thing as you
stop moving.
You know, the motion is lotion.
You're talking about the samething with the learning.
Like you, just you die, whetherit's this business or anything
else.
If you think you know it all,you're done.
(33:24):
And when I was younger I feltthis need to present as if I
knew it all.
Now I'm like guys, I'm an idiot, I'm dumb.
Dumb as I'm an idiot.
I'm dumb as hell.
I don't know anything.
It's funny that now I try totell the world about that on
different platforms, but it's anopportunity to learn and hear
(33:45):
stories and grow.
I don't know.
That's just what it's about forme.
I don't care if I got 10listeners or a you know a
million listeners.
If someone can walk away withsomething, I feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Right, I feel like I'm terrible at predicting how
successful an episode is goingto be.
If there's one that touches myheart and I think it's going to
be a good one, and it's justdoesn't have an effect on
anybody, you're like no?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
look what you got to show up and you got to do it
again.
Yeah, and in the beginning,when those numbers are really
humbling, you know it's so easyto say, all right, you know well
, we don't need to prioritizethis right, and you know if
you're at how many episodes nowuh, we, it would be 36.
(34:37):
Okay, dude, you're probablyhonestly, probably top 20% of
podcasts of all time.
Most podcasts don't get pastseven or eight episodes.
Wow, they never do.
It's some crazy stat and soreally really good on you.
I mean that's hard.
30 some odd episodes of contentor guests that you're
(34:59):
interviewing, I mean that'sreally really hard.
So really I'm really proud ofyou, I mean because that's
that's a tough thing to do.
Everybody says they want to doit, but it's it's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
When rich contacted me my co-host before Well, he
said, called me one day, justgot out of the blue, we didn't
talk a lot.
He said, hey, I'm thinkingabout starting a podcast and I
said, wow, that's great, let meknow how it turns out.
He said, no, I want you to doit with me.
I said OK, we had no idea whatwe were going to do.
(35:33):
I said okay, and we had no ideawhat we were going to do, but
he really, you know, it wasreally his design to have just
good conversation.
Yeah, and that's the vibe we'vetried to project, I think you
know.
So far we've pulled it off.
We've not had any guests that Ifeel like were, you know, nasty
or terrible.
I think that everyone is there.
(35:55):
I will say there's probablysome folks that I that I would
just rather not interview, but Ithink, that's fair yeah.
Yeah, that's super fair and it'syour show, so you don't have to
but I, you know, I'm notopposed to having somebody that
might be viewed as a little Idon't know offbeat.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, sure, my thing is, I don't got to agree with
everything, sure, right, but areyou a good human being, right?
Can we have a conversation?
If you're just a dirtbag humanbeing, I'm not interested in
really having a conversation.
Maybe that's just me, becausewith you it's easy.
I'm like howard, I gotta haveon this thing.
(36:37):
Oh, because it is good.
Good people you know your wife,are good people and you know
you're doing great stuff in the,in the community, not just your
community, but like in the dogworld itself, and you're super
well respected and you, you areabsolutely.
You said you're like I'm kindof.
I'm kind of, you know, I'mquiet, you know, not trying to
be in the forefront, but youhave the wisdom to be in the
(37:00):
forefront and you have that toshare and give.
So I love the podcast, I lovethe seminars that you're
attending and doing.
You know I think it's a reallybig deal, um, and it's really
great and I love that.
It's a passion that you had forso long and it's really great
and I love that it's a passionthat you had for so long and
it's still there.
The desire is still there andthat's when you know it's life
(37:21):
right and that's so cool to meto, to see, and and um and
promote well you know the otherthing, you're talking about
things that have changed.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I think the the Internet has certainly impacted
this industry greatly.
You know I can't I'm sure ithas the pet world, but it
certainly has.
What I do as well, and you know, there it's.
I've always tried to stay outof the drama and I think I've,
for the most part, I've managedthat and I think I've for the
(37:54):
most part I've managed that.
I think I've, if I like anickel for about every post that
I've ever typed up and thendeleted because I actually
thought it through, because it'sjust not worth it.
You know we have this thingabout yeah, we talk about, you
(38:17):
know we liken it to a tug ofrope.
You know, just don't pick up therope, can't play.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Right, just don't pick it up.
Easier said than done a lot oftimes.
Oh, for sure, yeah, for sureyou know the typing of it and
deleting.
That's good.
I can think of a lot of times Iwish I had deleted instead of
hit.
Send Emails, text messagesthrough media oh my gosh, um,
that's funny.
That's funny.
(38:40):
So how can people connect withyou?
How can?
What's it?
What's a good way for them toto connect with you, howard and
you know, follow you, learn moreabout what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Uh, facebook is a great place.
I do do a good bit of posting.
Uh, it is.
It's howard, young and I alsohave another page whitebeard
canine.
The uh instagram is howard,underscore wb, wb canine.
We don't have a website yet,but it is on my wife's list
(39:11):
since she's now retired.
So one of the reasons why I'vekind of been reluctant to do
that is that we're we're plentybusy.
I mean yeah, yeah, and Ithought that maybe a website
make things, make things alittle bit busier, but maybe not
.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Well, yeah, you never know, and what a blessing, like
I mean that's the fact thatyou're plenty busy.
You know you're working withthe people you want to work with
.
You know the dogs that you wantto work with.
Um, it's good to have thoseoptions.
You know it's good to havethose options and and figure out
how you, in what ways you wantto contribute and how, and stay
with that.
I mean you've earned that right, that's for sure.
(39:47):
And Logan, well done with those.
Um, those pop-ups man.
Like that pop-ups man, that wasso well-timed.
I'm like geez man, he got itset up.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
That was pretty slick .
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Howard, I appreciate you.
Man.
I can't thank you enough forcoming on for the show.
I hope personally to see yousoon.
You're just down the road inNorth Carolina, so maybe we'll
run into each other.
I'd love to catch up with youguys.
If you're ever coming through,you know, just hit me up and
we'll grab lunch or something onyour middle of your travel, but
(40:20):
I can't thank you enough forcoming on the show and I just
wish you and your wife the verybest of health and wealth and
life and impact.
Um.
I just think it's wonderful.
You know everything you guysare doing, um doing, and I knew
that you were good people themoment I met y'all at my place,
so I appreciate you a lot,brother well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Thank you for having me on absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Y'all follow my guy Howard.
Hit him up if you got questionsabout the working dog world.
Share the show.
Let us know how you feel aboutit.
If you learned anything, dropsome questions for Howard and
we'll send them over.
You got his stuff on there andyou can email them to me and
I'll forward them out to him aswell.
So we'll catch you next time.
One of the things that kind of manifested itself
from that was the two of theteams were really really lacking
and in my recommendation Irecommended that they go back
for some remedial training.
It was at that point he calledme into his office and said I'd
like to offer you a job.
So it was a unique situationthat I don't know that any
police departments that werehiring young civilian males to
(00:20):
basically take their canineprogram and run with it and fast
forward 30 years.
I'm still doing it and I'vepicked up some other agencies.
We've had several changes ofpolice chiefs and we've just
become a very integral part ofour community and that police
department and now our localsheriff's office as well Just
never look back what is going oneverybody?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
welcome back to the big dog Background.
But I got a good friend of mine.
The best beard in the dogbusiness is with us this morning
, Howard Young with White Beard.
Canine Howard, how are you,buddy?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'm very well.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Man, I'm just excited to have you on here.
You know, I guess we met at myfacility a couple of years ago
at a Steve Stoops seminar.
Yes, indeed yes, that he did aSteve Stoops seminar.
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes, that he did.
You guys, you and your wife,were up from North Carolina,
right, yes, we were.
Yes, we have known, we haveknown Steve a pretty long time
and when he went off to do hisarmy thing he really was, we
really lost touch.
So it was a unique opportunityto kind of get together and see
him again.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, that was a wild time, that was a fun, fun
couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, that was cool.
We met so many great people andyou and your wife are a part of
that and we've been talkingabout ever since like doing a
show together.
And you know, life just doesits thing and runs.
You retired now since then.
Right, because you weren'tretired at the seminar.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So really I've had several things going on for the
past 30 some years, but the dogbusiness has always been kind of
a secondary thing.
Yeah, so I was a mental healthprofessional for about 22 years
and then I was in publiceducation for a number of years
and that's what I ended upretiring from, and the whole
purpose of that was to be ableto do more dog-related things
before I get too old anddecrepit to be able to do it
(02:23):
anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So how did you get into the dog world?
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it's a unique situation in that when I got out
of college, the first thing Iwanted to do was get a dog.
I was really interested inworking dogs and Rottweilers
were my breed of choice at thetime and that was my.
I had German Shepherds growingup but I really wanted a
Rottweiler and at that time inthe early 80s, they weren't very
well known, at least in thiscountry.
(02:50):
So it wasn't that difficult tofind some good working dogs
still and I got involved with aSchutzen actually it wasn't
Schutzen Club yet, it was with agentleman that trained some
police dogs and it was one ofthose perfect storm situations
being there the right time.
He had a decoy that had justleft and I was young and fit
enough to do it and eager tolearn.
(03:11):
So I started learning how to dothat and he also trained a
number of protection dogs.
But he introduced me to thisboard of Schutzen and we started
a club and, not to make a superlong story out of this, I
started having some of the localpolice officers saw some of the
work I was doing and theystarted coming by with problems,
mainly engagement issues anddogs that just didn't bite well
(03:35):
and they didn't have greatcontrol.
So they started coming to, someof them on the sly, which was
not real cool, I guess.
Some of them on the sly, whichwas not real cool, I guess.
But what ended up happening isthat the local new police chief
wanted me to evaluate the fourteams they had and I put
together some scenarios that Ifelt like were fair and one of
the things that kind ofmanifested itself from that was
(03:58):
the two of the teams were reallyreally lacking and in my
recommendation I recommendedthat they go back for some
remedial training.
It was at that point he calledme into his office and said I'd
like to offer you a job.
So it was a unique situationthat I don't know that any
police departments that werehiring young civilian males to
basically take their canineprogram and run with it and fast
(04:19):
forward 30 years.
I'm still doing it and I'vepicked up some other agencies.
We've had several changes ofpolice chiefs and we've just
become a very integral part ofour community and that police
department and now our localsheriff's office as well, and
just never look back.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And so so talk to me about whatis the?
I mean, obviously you weretalking about kind of like your,
your professional.
You know, course, you knowthrough your life the things you
were doing, and the commondenominator between all of those
are selflessness and service,areas of service and kind of
having to excel in those fields.
And particularly with whatyou're doing now with the dogs
(04:58):
and work with the departments,there is this servant's heart
aspect.
You know if you will, and sokind of talk about how, as
you're, as you're coming up, youknow through your life,
professionally, the dog thingwas never the primary thing, it
was like the secondary thing.
But how did those passions,were they over to overlap?
And when did you know the dogsyou needed to get yourself in a
(05:19):
position to go primarily withthe dogs.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Well, I think one of the ways that I've been able to
stay so I never experiencedburnout, and I think some of
that was because that has alwaysbeen kind of a secondary thing
that I've done.
But I would say in terms ofthis, I learned a lot in my job
as a mental health professional.
I worked in a rehabilitationprogram for folks with severe
(05:43):
persistent mental illnesses, soillnesses like schizophrenia,
bipolar disorder and majordepression.
We operated a program thatfollowed a model that was kind
of unique in and of itself.
It was out of New York City, aplace called Fountain House, and
when you think abouttraditional mental health you
think about providing a serviceto help people get better.
(06:03):
But the reality is we'redealing with illnesses that many
people don't really everrecover from.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
They're.
They're they're lifelongillnesses and you go to mental
health for treatment, andtreatment is a is a vital part
of what needs to happen.
But really, where the where thetire hits, the hits the road is
is the rehabilitation part.
And that's where we came in isthat we had a program that by
design, the lines were kind ofblurred between the staff
(06:31):
members and actually we refer toit as a club.
So it was a voluntary programand we at one point in our small
community had upwards of 70people coming a day and it was a
model for the state.
So we did a tremendous amountof training ourselves.
But what was unique about it isthat it focused on people's
talents and skills rather thandeficits, and that was really.
(06:54):
The major difference is that weweren't interested in what was
wrong with you.
We wanted to find out whatskills you had and put it to use
.
So as you would come to thisprogram, you would see people
that were actively involved inthe running of it.
So we had a snack bar, we had akitchen that provided lunch
every day, we had a clericalunit that put out a newsletter
(07:16):
and assisted with billing, andit was just a phenomenally run
place and I think it's funniestthat when your typical mental
health professional thinks abouta voluntary program, they would
think that people wouldn't comeor they wouldn't do anything.
But here, on a rainy let's say,a rainy Monday morning and
you've got 70 people that showedup that had a choice of rolling
(07:39):
over and going back to sleepand just drawing their
disability check.
So you know, there were somepowerful things that were going
on there and it was just a itreally it was a place that
taught me the, I guess, thevalue of people, regardless of
their station in life orregardless of what's going on in
their lives, and to treat, youknow, everyone with dignity and
respect, and I think that'sthat's carried over probably the
(08:01):
most in terms of, you know,just dealing with people in
general.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Right, you know it's funny.
It's, you know, the thing yousaid about focusing on their
strengths, interests, passions,rather than letting the focus be
on their deficits, when a lotof folks in those situations
whether it's something that's aseason of life or it is a
lifelong illness challenge thatthey're going to have most
(08:26):
people don't approach them ortreat them from that aspect.
The focus is solely on thedeficit, and it's either, you
know, brushing people aside,dismissing them, definitely not
treated with respect.
A lot of times, you see it, andthe thing that's not ha ha
funny, but funny is thecorrelation between people and
dogs in that regard, and youknow, in in my world, in the dog
(08:49):
world I'm not on the workingdog side, I'm all pets, but so
often, all we're hearing frompeople are the deficit of these
dogs, and you got to take, yougot to fix this, you got to do
this and you got to do that.
You know and it's so funnybecause it's it we're not curing
cancer here, you know.
Know, I mean, we're both.
Well, what we are doing, though, is we're getting these dogs.
(09:10):
We're folks.
What do you do, well, what doyou enjoy?
What gets your confidence up,what gets you more engaged with
me and it's funny how so oftenthe deficit, a lot of these
times with these dogs, we seeisn't something that's cured,
it's a managed thing, right, butit becomes so much more
manageable when the dog realizesthere's more to them than the
(09:30):
deficit.
But if all your, if all wefocused on from a handling
standpoint was deficit, deficit,deficit, deficit, deficit,
you're gonna have a broke down,beaten down, skittish dog, just
as you would a person or a kidwho was treated that way.
And now they're an adult andyou wonder why.
You know they can't be inrelationships, they can't
(09:52):
communicate, they can't hold ajob, they can't, you know, do
anything society would deemworthwhile, but they've just
been told over and over againthat they're not worthwhile,
brutal, and we see that with thedogs all the time, all the time
.
So on the working dog side, Iknow you had that interest, you
got those rotties.
I have a roddy myself.
(10:12):
Um, we've got rocky.
He's about 140, he looks like afreaking wine barrel.
But he doesn't look like a winebarrel, he's actually just just
jacked and he's an athlete.
I trained him when he was a pupand I fell in love with him and
I told the owners when I tookhim back to him at the end of
training.
Look guys, if life ever happensand you can't keep this dog I'm
(10:35):
your first phone call and theywere a little older and her
parents are much like in their90s and they ended up moving in
with them.
And old Rocky, you know, he was10 months old when I trained
him and he was about three orfour when I got the phone call
from him and he had just leanedagainst her mama, not anything
just and she went toppling overand her father was ready to kill
(10:56):
the dog.
Like actually had a shotgun.
I was going to kill the dog.
So she calls me like bring himto me.
And now my wife has a hugerottweiler.
That is my wife's dog throughand through, but we've always
had rotties and grew up withthem.
They're amazing dogs.
I love them.
Our house looks ridiculous.
So we have this, thisrottweiler the size of a tank.
We have a 53 pound littlehunting lab, charlotte, and then
(11:18):
we just got this miniatureaustralian labradoodle.
She's a year and so we looklike the weirdest house on the
street because we've got from,you know, terror and rocky to
this little like build-a-bearthing walking around.
And here I am, big old beardedguy carrying this little doodle
puppy.
But it's the funniest thing.
She's the dog I never knew Ineeded and she's just a great,
(11:42):
great little dog.
Um, but I I try to imagine likeman.
You are really convenient.
You don't shed, you don'tbarrel through the house like a
bull in a china shop.
Rocky's a very good dog, buthe's a grown man.
It's like another grown manliving in the house and you know
Roddy's and their personalitiesand you got to earn it every
day with them.
But I was like man.
(12:06):
I really can't imagine a timein my life where I wouldn't want
to not have Rottweilers.
I just I love them.
I love them.
They're wonderful dogs,incredible dogs.
What's your crew look like now?
What are you?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
you still running some Rotties or no, no, haven't
had Rottweiler in a good longwhile.
We do have a Dutch Shepherdthat is.
That is really quite a handfulTypical Dutch Shepherd.
He was very slow to mature, buthe's a force.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What are you finding?
So I know you work with severaldifferent agencies.
You're working with that localdepartment still that you've
worked with for years.
What are some of the biggestchanges you've kind of seen in
the industry over the last?
You know, 10, 15, 20 years?
You know whether it's education, whether it's dogs, whether
it's ongoing training, Cause Ithink that's an important thing
(12:54):
that people don't really realize.
They see, this is most people'sunderstanding of a canine in
lawn.
For they see the car drive by,they see canine sticker on it
and like, Ooh, they got one ofthose cool dogs.
And I've seen horror stories ofdogs that were ill prepared,
that weren't trained Well, theydidn't have the background.
Or my favorite is I get thephone call hey, I got a German
(13:18):
shepherd I need, I need it to bea protection dog.
Hey, I got myself one of theseBelgian malinois and I want you
to train it to to protect myfamily.
I hold on, You're so off baseright now.
Well, German shepherd, what doyou mean?
It can't do it?
Like, well, there's a lot ofthings that go into this.
(13:38):
And well, I'm just going todonate it to the police
department if you won't stoppeeing in the house.
And I'm like hold on, Can youlike how people think about this
?
And I don't necessarily thinkthey realize the importance of
the training and relevanttraining that goes into the dogs
.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Sure, you know, I like to think that what we try
to procure for the agencies arereally the professional athletes
of the dog world, and in thatwe're looking for dogs that are
obviously environmentally sound.
And more specifically, what Imean by that is that, regardless
of where they are, where theygo, they kind of either are
neutral to the environment orthey're confident in the way
(14:20):
they carry themselves.
So they have to be exposed toslick floors, all varieties of
stairs, possibly an elevator,loud noises, and we really don't
get too terribly concerned ifthere's a little bit of a
reaction.
It's just how quick do theyrecover from that reaction,
right?
It's just how quick do theyrecover from that reaction,
(14:41):
right?
So in some cases, you know,we're getting dogs Well, we are
getting most of our dogs fromEurope, in fact almost all of
them, and we don't really knowhow they've been raised.
You can kind of surmise thelonger you have it, you can tell
if it's been raised in a homeor if it's been raised in a
setting where the only thingit's really ever seen is a green
(15:01):
grass in a field.
So those dogs it's nice to havethat information up front
because they may encounter theirfirst vacuum cleaner on wheels
and that's the freakiest thingthey've ever seen in their lives
and they might have a reactionto that.
But day two they might go nobig deal I've seen it before.
(15:22):
So those are the kind of thingsthat we have to consider and
what we bank on is that thosethings have been sorted out
before we ever lay eyes on thecandidates.
Yeah, so I've used a number ofvendors here in the States over
the years, but the last probablyfive or six years I've been
relying on a gentleman in Europeand I've bought them primarily
(15:43):
just through video.
But more importantly is a yearand a half relationship of
talking about what I need.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And a little measure, well, a big measure of trust in
that he's not going to send mea dog that I can't use, and so
far he's really he's been likesix for seven on terms of dogs
and to me that's vitallyimportant and to have that
relationship at this point, this, this would be somebody, if he
(16:13):
came to the States, I'd welcomein my home.
You know you can stay here, butthere are plenty of people out
there that want to takeadvantage or, and the people
that are eager to you knoweasily taken advantage of, right
.
So during that year and a halfI wanted him to know many things
, I wanted him to know who I was, and it would not behoove him
to send me anything thatwouldn't be good, right Cause
(16:35):
the word's going to get outAbsolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So now you're helping agencieswith placement, you're helping
agencies with ongoing training.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat that looks like.
How often are you going in andmaybe like certifying or
recertifying or helping teamsget you know?
Maybe something happened.
You need to help get them backin the game a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So my primary position really is two contracts
with the local agencies, andthe way I like to look at that
is that I don't know that Ireally want to be in the
business of just procuring dogsfor different agencies.
I want to have hands-on fromthe very beginning and then
throughout the career.
So in our contracts webasically provide the training,
we procure the dog, we providethe training and the training.
(17:19):
We basically provide thetraining.
We procure the dog, we providethe training and the training
once we start never ends.
So an example is tonight I'llhave a group of gentlemen and we
meet one agency I meet withtwice a week and the other one
once a week.
So we get at least 16 hours oftraining in a month typically
(17:40):
more.
And I think that's really beenthe secret sauce in some
respects, because a lot oftraining groups are set up so
that they meet once or twice amonth.
I prefer to have the weeklycontact, if not twice a week
contact, and even though it'snot a full eight-hour day, I
think we probably accomplishmore in four hours than a lot of
people do in an eight hour day.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
To start factoring in breaks and lunch and errands
yeah, it's so interesting to mewithin that world there, because
you think about when these dogsare going to work and you're
talking about, like the proathlete of the dog world you're,
you're looking for, you knowyou need that elite animal who
(18:22):
not only physically is sound butmentally, emotionally, um, you
know it, you don't mind it.
You know getting caught offguard a little bit, but how
quickly does it respond, getback into the fight?
Uh, whatever it is, you knowhow quickly can it recover and
the importance of that.
You know if a dog is releasedto engage and that dog hesitates
(18:44):
, or that dog, you know, freaksout because it goes into a
building and it's a dark room ora dark corridor and it hasn't
seen these things before, right,you know it's, these dogs, it's
almost ill-prepared, are aliability, oh for sure, to the
officers on site.
You know to everybody, thesedogs, it's almost ill-prepared,
(19:05):
are a liability, oh for sure, tothe officers on site.
You know to everybody.
And you know the preparation andthe work that you're doing
weekly, you know, is what makessure that, hey, you can't
anticipate everything possible,but it's almost not necessary.
Once that dog is sound, youknow the dog's like, okay, yeah,
I've, I've, I've been aroundsomething like that before, or
(19:27):
you know, this, this smell, thissurface, this feeling, this I'm
getting hit, I'm getting thrown, I'm getting shoved, I'm
getting not a good bite, or youknow, even in the in the bite
work side that was one thethings with steve that was so
interesting to me during thatseminar was like he wasn't using
the suit, right like right, andI was.
I'm just sitting there andlogan, you know, I remember him
(19:49):
saying too, he's like holy crap,he's just like offering his his
shirt you know.
And here's this dog going buckwild, ready to roll, and he goes
.
Well, hey look, your bad guy'snot gonna be running around in a
you know, full suit and now intraining.
But then there's differentvariations of the suits and all
this stuff.
But the real life, practicalsituations that you can get
(20:11):
those dogs into is just so vitalfor the safety and protection
of everyone the dog, the handler, the other teams on site, um,
and the bad guy.
You know that they're gettingafter.
You want that dog to respond.
You know appropriately.
What, um?
What do you find?
You know, with the dogs thatyou're looking for.
What are those ages?
(20:32):
You know that they come in oragency already has a dog.
What are the where?
Where are those dogs at?
How often are the dogs usuallyin service before they retire
them out?
You know what's that look like.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So you were wanting to know what some of the
differences are over the last 20years.
That's probably a primarydifference.
The age is much younger.
Okay, we used to get dogs thatwere two and sometimes three,
and really three years of agewas kind of used to be my cutoff
.
Now, if a dog has been sittingin Europe for two or three years
(21:04):
there, you got to be asking thequestion what's wrong with it?
Right, they wouldn't.
So we're getting dogs at a muchyounger age.
We've had a couple that we'vebrought in at 10 months, which
that's young, yeah, but thething is my process could take
upwards of six months.
So I don't mind taking ayounger dog and take my time
(21:24):
slow and develop it slowly andallow it to mature.
You know we bank on a good bitof generalization, which is what
you were talking about in termsof preparing the dog, and that
is a good portion of what we dois we try to and you've probably
heard this said before is thatwe look at it like we want to
give the dog certain picturesfor their portfolio and in that
(21:47):
portfolio they're going to havecertain things that they've seen
before that it's going to clickfor them.
Yeah, I've done this before,but what's interesting, though,
is that sometimes we have andit's not talked about enough, I
don't think is that there arefailures to engage, sometimes
early on, and it's typically asa result of not having the
(22:08):
appropriate number of pictures.
So, you know, we see dogs onsocial media that fail and
people go oh, that's terrible,you know, terrible training,
terrible dog.
Well, nine times out of 10,it's probably not the dog, it is
probably confusion.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And you mentioned the suit.
Yeah, that's equipment.
That's equipment to protect us.
Okay, for the dog, what it doesis that he figures out the game
.
I mean, they're masters ofassociation.
They can spot a suit a mileaway, right, yeah, if they've
seen one.
Yep, they could spot a suit amile away, right, yeah, if
they've seen one, yeah.
So, yes, we're.
We're constantly looking tofind ways to make the picture
(22:44):
look more realistic, yeah, andthere's all kinds of ways to do
that.
And you know, steve is veryentertaining in the way he does
that, but he's the shirt.
Yeah, the shirt thing I I'vedone here it's funny and I I got
it from him and the reaction isreally quite done here.
It's funny and I got it fromhim and the reaction is really
(23:06):
quite comical, because it's notas sketchy as it looks.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Right, right, you're paying attention.
You're a pro, you know whereyou're at.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Steve knows where he's at, he's put a lot of trust
in the person on the other sideof that line, though Well,
that's usually the comment thatI get is that they don't trust
anybody well enough to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, I thought the dog were worried about.
You know, I know what the dog'sgoing to do Exactly.
That's funny.
That's funny.
So you know what's the nextfive, 10 years look like you
know for for you and kind of thethe agencies you work with
there locally down in NorthCarolina, like what are those
priorities with those teams andthat you're really trying to
(23:44):
help them accomplish or levelsthat they get to.
You know, are you doing?
You know, are you doingtracking, trailing at all with
these teams?
Yes, so you're across the board.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, they do detection, they do tracking,
building search.
The big thing is that there'salways been a tremendous I'd say
tremendous, it's always beenturnover.
It's kind of expected,especially in a relatively small
agency.
So one of the things that canpossibly happen is that if a
gentleman or lady iscareer-minded and they get into
(24:14):
K-9, even if that's what they'vealways wanted to do, at some
point down the road whether it'sthree years, five years or
sometimes even less they'regoing to feel tugged to get
experience in other aspects ofthe agency.
Right, right, so what?
What that forces us to have todo is to find another suitable
handler and then start theprocess again.
So one of the things you wereasking about length of service
(24:37):
too, in terms of dogs, we've gota 10 year old Dutch shepherd.
He's going to be 10 in May andhe's not showing any signs of
slowing down.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
The way I look at it, he's trained five handlers in
his career.
That's crazy.
That's.
That's an, you know, an unusualnumber, but it's not unusual to
have at least two or threehandlers per dog, and if we'd
like to look at maybe a dogmaking it to at least his eighth
birthday um, depends on thebreed, you know, the back in the
(25:07):
day, the bigger, oldershepherds didn't, didn't hold up
as well.
Some of these hard chargingmalinois and duchies just don't
seem to ever slow down.
So right, yeah, you know, andlike with this dog, it's hard to
know.
We don't want to, we don't wantto run him into the ground, but
the reality is, is he's notlike a human?
He's not sitting aroundcounting the days till he
retires.
(25:27):
Right, he lived day to day.
He just wants to.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He's loving the game.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He is.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And if he's loving the game and wants to work and
physically he's able, I mean I'mwith you.
I mean let him do his deal.
Yeah, Cause there isn't thatclock in their mind.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Nope, that's a completely human construct.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I mean hell, from the dog's aspect.
The dog's probably thinking,hey, if I slow down, that's it
Right.
Like I can't slow down, I gotto keep going, I got to keep.
That's actually funny.
We were last night.
We have sunday supper at myhouse.
My mom, my grandmother, comeover.
You know, my kids are there andit's open.
Anybody who wants to come over,come over.
But typically it's just, youknow, the six or seven of us.
(26:10):
And my grandmother was talkingabout a friend of hers, uh,
who's just been in and out ofthe hospital last couple years
or last couple months, and she'sgetting pretty nervous because
she's like, ah, I just don'thave a good feeling about this,
you know.
And she's getting prettynervous Cause she's like, ah, I
just don't have a good feelingabout this, you know, and she's
in her eighties and, um, cause,this is why you can't stop
moving, got to keep moving, yougot to keep.
You know, my grandmother, she,you know, she goes to exercise
(26:30):
like twice a week and, you know,does her little dances at the
house and you know, and she'salways running and gunning and
doing something, but she goes,yeah, she goes.
You got you stop moving.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Everything's going to stop working, you know and
there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know that she was talking about her friend.
She was like yeah, she has alot of health issues and smoke
for seven, 60 years and you knowall this other stuff and
whatever which is eventually itcatches up to you and she goes
yep, and that's why she goes.
I don't even take tylenol,never had to have a surgery,
never had.
She's 86 years old, she's neverhad a surgery, never broken a
bone, and she's wild like.
She is a wide-ass, open lady,she's the best.
(27:08):
But she, she's like just gottakeep moving, just gotta keep
moving.
And I'm like dang, you weretalking about that dutchie and
I'm like that's mom, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Buddy told me, emotion is lotion.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, that's amazing, that's incredible.
So what do you got big going oncoming up?
Anything on the calendar, anybig events or anything like that
?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yes, Actually several Going to Georgia Columbus,
georgia for a decoy seminar in acouple weeks and then we've got
a trip to another decoy seminarin Indiana.
Then we've got Hold the LineConference in Myrtle Beach,
going back to Connecticut towork with the Connecticut State
Police on another decoy seminarand then going out to Colorado
(27:54):
for a seminar and then I've gotanother one in Indiana.
But we're busy.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I mean it's good.
Yeah, that's really great, andyou and the wife travel together
on these things.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, it's funny because she just retired too.
So she retired like a month agoand she initially was saying
she was going to go on all thesetrips she's already backing out
.
So she's going to be able, allthese trips she's already
backing out, so she's going tobe able to pick and choose what
she wants to go.
So I take a gentleman with meon most of these T-Clo workshops
.
That's Mike Santana, who is atrainer down in Georgia.
(28:27):
He was just a young guy who'sjust.
I think he's phenomenal, he'swe're we're very like-minded in
that we're both relatively quietand don't like to be standing
at the forefront.
So it's nice to have anadditional person there.
We kind of bounce off of eachother and I don't really feel
like I'm bringing him into thefold, but I do feel like he's a
talent that should be recognizedand utilized.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's great, and you've got a podcast also I do.
It's called the.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Working Dog Depot.
It's the Working Dog Depot.
I don't know what your venturewas like, but when we started we
floundered.
We did six episodes that werecorded on Skype and we didn't
have a clue what we were doing.
We didn't feel like we had anygood resources and then finally
it just died.
And then we made a secondattempt and we actually got it
resources and then finally wegot we just it just died.
(29:15):
And then we we made a secondattempt and we actually got it
going.
But what it took was reallyreaching out to some people and
just asking questions, specificquestions, and realizing that we
were going to have to pay forsome services.
Yeah, cause I tried editing anepisode and it was okay, but I
felt like the learning curve waslike, by the time I learned how
(29:35):
to do this and I tried to do itthe next time I'm starting all
over yeah, I didn't want to doso.
We are into our second year,we've got, we're actually we
have a recording with thegentleman in belgium uh, part
two tonight or this afternoon,because six hour difference,
sure, and uh, it's been, it'sbeen a lot of fun.
We've picked up some sponsors,that some really good folks and
(29:58):
well-named folks, which is neat,that's cool but it's really
geared, I guess, more toward Ithink canine handlers have
gravitated toward it the mostand in it, from the content
aspect, you can kind of see whythey're they're.
They're looking for answers andthey're looking for for more
information and, uh, both richand I are kind of low key.
(30:19):
We're not going to stand up andbeat our chest.
We, right, we want to hear whatour you know, our guests have
to say, because we certainlydon't know everything yeah, yeah
, that's good.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
No, I love it and I can totally relate when we I
mean, I talked about it foryears before I finally started
it and my thing was I was sohung up on everything needed to
sound right, look right, like Iwanted the studio to look a
certain way.
I mean, I was all the stuff Icared about really didn't matter
, right, the most importantthing is just starting and doing
(30:50):
it.
And but I was hung up on certainthings and so we did that and
now half time I'm not even inthe studio, I'm in my office,
like I am now from our placeover there and oh yeah, yeah,
you saw the, the setup, andwe're getting ready to change
that up because we're going tostart letting people use our
studio space and so we're movingit into a larger space to where
(31:12):
there'll be my setup studio,designed how I want it to be.
Anybody can use it, but thenthere's going to be a totally
different vibe on the other sideof the room that someone could
use and shoot and we have allthe cameras and lights and all
that stuff.
But half the time I'm just inmy office, you know, like this,
doing it, and it's it's justdoing it and it's good
(31:33):
conversations and the ones Ithought were going to be bangers
and just everybody's going tolove and my gosh it.
You know my mom and grandmalisten to it, right.
And then the one I think isgoing to kind of, you know,
might be okay, but there weresome little tidbits.
I'll get the greatest feedbackfrom people and I was like man,
that's really cool.
(31:54):
And the thing with the, theshow that I've always said I was
like man.
That's really cool.
And the thing with the showthat I've always said I was like
man.
If, if, out of the episode, I'mable to introduce somebody to
someone, or someone is able totake one thing out of it, one
thing out of it that that helpsthem.
One person gets one thing.
That's totally worth it to me.
It's totally worth it to me.
It's totally worth it to me.
It's worth the time If I canintroduce you know you, howard
(32:15):
Young, to, to, to my network andmy listeners and they can get
dialed in with your show andlearn more about you and what
you're doing.
They're going to get so muchvalue out of listening to you
and the interviews you have andand stuff like that's so worth
it to me and I just think thatyou know my show for the last
(32:37):
two years has not been dogdriven at all.
We don't talk dogs a whole lot.
We talk business, we talk life,we talk family, you know, and a
lot of it's business driven andentrepreneurial driven.
But it was never going to beabout the dog stuff.
But of late I'm like man a lotof the dog community really gets
on my nerves.
It's so split, it's so splitand I really want people to
(33:02):
realize the resources we have ineach other and it's always just
opportunities to learn.
And when you stop learning, Ithink it's the same thing as you
stop moving.
You know, the motion is lotion.
You're talking about the samething with the learning.
Like you, just you die, whetherit's this business or anything
else.
If you think you know it all,you're done.
(33:24):
And when I was younger I feltthis need to present as if I
knew it all.
Now I'm like guys, I'm an idiot, I'm dumb.
Dumb as I'm an idiot.
I'm dumb as hell.
I don't know anything.
It's funny that now I try totell the world about that on
different platforms, but it's anopportunity to learn and hear
(33:45):
stories and grow.
I don't know.
That's just what it's about forme.
I don't care if I got 10listeners or a you know a
million listeners.
If someone can walk away withsomething, I feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Right, I feel like I'm terrible at predicting how
successful an episode is goingto be.
If there's one that touches myheart and I think it's going to
be a good one, and it's justdoesn't have an effect on
anybody, you're like no?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
look what you got to show up and you got to do it
again.
Yeah, and in the beginning,when those numbers are really
humbling, you know it's so easyto say, all right, you know well
, we don't need to prioritizethis right, and you know if
you're at how many episodes nowuh, we, it would be 36.
(34:37):
Okay, dude, you're probablyhonestly, probably top 20% of
podcasts of all time.
Most podcasts don't get pastseven or eight episodes.
Wow, they never do.
It's some crazy stat and soreally really good on you.
I mean that's hard.
30 some odd episodes of contentor guests that you're
(34:59):
interviewing, I mean that'sreally really hard.
So really I'm really proud ofyou, I mean because that's
that's a tough thing to do.
Everybody says they want to doit, but it's it's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
When rich contacted me my co-host before Well, he
said, called me one day, justgot out of the blue, we didn't
talk a lot.
He said, hey, I'm thinkingabout starting a podcast and I
said, wow, that's great, let meknow how it turns out.
He said, no, I want you to doit with me.
I said OK, we had no idea whatwe were going to do.
(35:33):
I said okay, and we had no ideawhat we were going to do, but
he really, you know, it wasreally his design to have just
good conversation.
Yeah, and that's the vibe we'vetried to project, I think you
know.
So far we've pulled it off.
We've not had any guests that Ifeel like were, you know, nasty
or terrible.
I think that everyone is there.
(35:55):
I will say there's probablysome folks that I that I would
just rather not interview, but Ithink, that's fair yeah.
Yeah, that's super fair and it'syour show, so you don't have to
but I, you know, I'm notopposed to having somebody that
might be viewed as a little Idon't know offbeat.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, sure, my thing is, I don't got to agree with
everything, sure, right, but areyou a good human being, right?
Can we have a conversation?
If you're just a dirtbag humanbeing, I'm not interested in
really having a conversation.
Maybe that's just me, becausewith you it's easy.
I'm like howard, I gotta haveon this thing.
(36:37):
Oh, because it is good.
Good people you know your wife,are good people and you know
you're doing great stuff in the,in the community, not just your
community, but like in the dogworld itself, and you're super
well respected and you, you areabsolutely.
You said you're like I'm kindof.
I'm kind of, you know, I'mquiet, you know, not trying to
be in the forefront, but youhave the wisdom to be in the
(37:00):
forefront and you have that toshare and give.
So I love the podcast, I lovethe seminars that you're
attending and doing.
You know I think it's a reallybig deal, um, and it's really
great and I love that.
It's a passion that you had forso long and it's really great
and I love that it's a passionthat you had for so long and
it's still there.
The desire is still there andthat's when you know it's life
(37:21):
right and that's so cool to meto, to see, and and um and
promote well you know the otherthing, you're talking about
things that have changed.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I think the the Internet has certainly impacted
this industry greatly.
You know I can't I'm sure ithas the pet world, but it
certainly has.
What I do as well, and you know, there it's.
I've always tried to stay outof the drama and I think I've,
for the most part, I've managedthat and I think I've for the
(37:54):
most part I've managed that.
I think I've, if I like anickel for about every post that
I've ever typed up and thendeleted because I actually
thought it through, because it'sjust not worth it.
You know we have this thingabout yeah, we talk about, you
(38:17):
know we liken it to a tug ofrope.
You know, just don't pick up therope, can't play.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Right, just don't pick it up.
Easier said than done a lot oftimes.
Oh, for sure, yeah, for sureyou know the typing of it and
deleting.
That's good.
I can think of a lot of times Iwish I had deleted instead of
hit.
Send Emails, text messagesthrough media oh my gosh, um,
that's funny.
That's funny.
(38:40):
So how can people connect withyou?
How can?
What's it?
What's a good way for them toto connect with you, howard and
you know, follow you, learn moreabout what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Uh, facebook is a great place.
I do do a good bit of posting.
Uh, it is.
It's howard, young and I alsohave another page whitebeard
canine.
The uh instagram is howard,underscore wb, wb canine.
We don't have a website yet,but it is on my wife's list
(39:11):
since she's now retired.
So one of the reasons why I'vekind of been reluctant to do
that is that we're we're plentybusy.
I mean yeah, yeah, and Ithought that maybe a website
make things, make things alittle bit busier, but maybe not
.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Well, yeah, you never know, and what a blessing, like
I mean that's the fact thatyou're plenty busy.
You know you're working withthe people you want to work with
.
You know the dogs that you wantto work with.
Um, it's good to have thoseoptions.
You know it's good to havethose options and and figure out
how you, in what ways you wantto contribute and how, and stay
with that.
I mean you've earned that right, that's for sure.
(39:47):
And Logan, well done with those.
Um, those pop-ups man.
Like that pop-ups man, that wasso well-timed.
I'm like geez man, he got itset up.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
That was pretty slick .
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Howard, I appreciate you.
Man.
I can't thank you enough forcoming on for the show.
I hope personally to see yousoon.
You're just down the road inNorth Carolina, so maybe we'll
run into each other.
I'd love to catch up with youguys.
If you're ever coming through,you know, just hit me up and
we'll grab lunch or something onyour middle of your travel, but
(40:20):
I can't thank you enough forcoming on the show and I just
wish you and your wife the verybest of health and wealth and
life and impact.
Um.
I just think it's wonderful.
You know everything you guysare doing, um doing, and I knew
that you were good people themoment I met y'all at my place,
so I appreciate you a lot,brother well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Thank you for having me on absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Y'all follow my guy Howard.
Hit him up if you got questionsabout the working dog world.
Share the show.
Let us know how you feel aboutit.
If you learned anything, dropsome questions for Howard and
we'll send them over.
You got his stuff on there andyou can email them to me and
I'll forward them out to him aswell.
So we'll catch you next time.
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