Aaron Cowan Part 2 - Sage Dynamics - An Author's Journey

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What if the future isn't just about starships and laser battles, but also about confronting the ethical complexities of artificial intelligence and interstellar governance? Inspired by sci-fi classics like Star Trek, we delve into these questions and more. 

Aaron talks about his journey as an author and discusses his novels including the latest Sci-Fi series.

Find out more about Big Tex Ordnance at bigtexordnance.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Torpedoes have a max-det range, so if they don't
hit nothing, eventually theyblow themselves up and the
bullets do too.
So even in an Earth conflictthey can set their duty rifles
to self-det or command-det sothey can put four or five rounds
in a guy and then command-detthose rounds.
That's awesome.
I just have a lot of funwriting and I read this quote

(00:26):
years ago.
It was like this unknown quote.
It was like the person whodoesn't write is cursed to live
with his words in his headforever.
And I'm like that's so true.
My handwriting sucks.
I need a computer.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
So type it all up and were you always into before you
started writing.
I know you started writingearly, but since you were
younger were you always intosci-fi, like sci-fi books and
movies and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
My grandfather, my dad's dad, was a Star Trek guy.
Okay, cool, and that's why itcracks me up, because I've been
watching Star Trek my whole life.
Yeah, and it's gotten better,but it's gotten worse.
My favorite is the NextGeneration because if you watch
the series, it's very methodic,it's very episodic.
There aren't a lot of big arcs,but they're mostly.

(01:13):
They're mostly addressing moralissues in almost every episode.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
They're addressing human rights issues.
They're addressing, like, likewhat people today call woke,
yeah, and issues they'readdressing like like what people
today call woke.
And I'm like, bro, star Trekhas always been been doing that.
Yeah, um, first major blackcast member, yeah, first
transracial or transracial kiss,like Star Trek has been doing
it for a long time.
Um, interracial standards, um,they, I mean they, they, they

(01:42):
attack, because all allRoddenberry did was he took
history and put it in the futureand he's like what's, how would
this go?
And that's kind of likesomething I tackle in sci-fi as
well.
Is is my concept is the naturalrights of artificial
intelligence, and like peopleare like well, we made it.
And I'm like, yeah, but it'ssmart, you made your kids.

(02:03):
Do you run their lives forever?
Yeah, well, I.
But, and I'm like, and let'sconsider the fact that the
artificial intelligence is wellsmarter than you, yeah, so how
do you keep it as property?
Well, cause, we made it.
Okay, now we're going to haveto have a war over this because
we're getting into this argument.
So the book follows one kid whogets evicted from earth because

(02:29):
and there'll be some, there'llbe three books that take place
later on that tell you how thathappened, like what happened on
earth that caused the situation.
But basically he grows up inAtlanta and when he turned 17,
he gets an eviction slip randomand he's got to go.
He can't stay here.
This planet has a populationcap because we got to keep the
environment safe and we got tomake sure everybody has enough

(02:51):
to eat and we got to make surewe keep the water blue and the
streets clean, and this is aperfect paradise.
But you can't live here.
So he gets evicted.
Well, he gets evicted.
The only place to go is likethe moon.
He could go to Mars, but inorder to go to Mars, you've got
to become a citizen.
In order to be a citizen onMars, you've got to do all this
other stuff.
So he goes to the UnitedColonies, which is like way out
there and there's like 40 lightyear circle, well, sphere really

(03:14):
, of all these different planets, and they'll make you a citizen
if you serve five years in themilitary.
So he's like well, I guessthat's what I'm doing.
And his whole life growing up hewas fascinated by the Navy.
Yeah, united Nations Navy.
They got a space Navy that justguards earth, and like Saul, uh
, because Mars is its own thing.

(03:34):
So he's got all the models and,like his, his room is full of
them.
And um, he realizes he hasastrophobia, so he's terrified
of vacuum.
So he can't, he can't, he's notgoing to join the Navy, he's
terrified of it.
So he joins the army and hegets you follow him through

(03:57):
basic training.
You start to see how big theworld is going to get, and then
he gets assigned to an armydestroyer, cause you know, the
one thing I've always it makessense but it doesn't is why are
we treating space like the ocean?
So you always have navies inspace and I'm like no, space is
just territory.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So in my world they're still Marines, because,
of course.
But the army in space does thesame thing the army does on
Earth it's mainly for long-termreal estate control.
So the Marine Corps, those areyour supposed to be your
invasion forces.
And then you have the Army.
That has special.
So the Army in my universe hasdestroyers and each destroyer

(04:36):
has basically an adjudicator onit, a judge like a legal corps.
So it's the Army legal corpsand he a judge like a legal core
.
So it's the army legal core andhe's a judge.
And what that ship does inpeacetime is it goes to these
different systems that areeither commonwealths or under
control, or they're just fringesof the government, and he shows

(04:56):
up and he's a magistrate andhe's like all right, what do
y'all got?
And he's like well, we've hadthree murderers, 14 thefts,
because in order to have, like,you need to pull a local jury
for that.
You can't have a guy murder adude on this one planet and then
ship him to another planet tohave him stand trial, because
that's not his peers, that's nota jury of your peers.
Like you need the localpopulation, but you got to bring

(05:16):
a judge to these miningcolonies and things like that
and you start to see how messedup things are when, like,
certain parts of capitalism justrun rampant, so, like because
of the eviction thing, thesecompanies will be like, hey, if
you don't want to join themilitary, you don't have to,
we'll make you, we'll get you tobe a citizen.
You just got to work for us forfive years, so you have
indentured servitude makes acomeback, yeah, um, and then you

(05:39):
have like, uh, religiousdeferments and stuff like that.
But he ends up doing the armything and then realizes like
some things weren't just chance,like it's possible that he got
evicted on purpose, becausesomeone manipulated the system,
because they need notnecessarily him but they're
looking for his mother.

(05:59):
So he lived with his dad, hismother left and his mother not
giving away too much of thefirst book.
She's basically in charge of anarmy, oh, that is attempting to
destroy all artificial life.
And he's got a brother that isinfamous inside the united

(06:23):
colonies.
Like, as soon as people findout that this, like you're Sam
Gray's brother, you must be apiece of shit too, because his
brother was the first mutineerin the United, in the United
colonies Navy At least that'show the story goes.
So his brother mutinied a shipand they never found him, or the
crew, which starts like alittle separate mystery where

(06:46):
you're like what, what?
Yeah, so like his, like one ofhis first days in the army, he
gets interrogated by militarypolice Like hey, we let you in,
we got some questions.
When's the last time you talkedto your brother?
And he's like 12 years ago,when I was 12.
Um, so I I think I did a betterjob with Carson of making his

(07:08):
world bigger, faster.
Yeah, so he's not doing allthis crazy stuff.
He's not that.
He's like.
He's literally the first book.
He's just a private, and thefirst quarter of the first book
is him going through trainingand then he starts to learn
bigger things.
But by the end of the bookyou're like this kid's got a
rough life and then you got tointroduce other characters and

(07:28):
see how they connect, becausebasically he gets befriended by,
like the.
There's a custodial AI calledMonitor and Monitor monitors all
the soldiers and does a bunchof other stuff too.
But Monitor starts talking tohim like just to be his friend,
and then he finds out thatMonitor's talking to a few other
people he knows too, and thenit gets revealed throughout the

(07:52):
next books, like why Monitorstarts choosing, and I like
working in threes.
So I've got three maincharacters.
Carson is the main character,but I've also got Rones and I've
got another character is themain character, but I've also
got Rones, uh, and I've got uhanother character, um, and they

(08:15):
all have real world conflict.
They're not always going to getalong just because they're
friends.
So like they end up like it'slike that, that old saying like
it just cause someone's in yourlife doesn't mean they're in
your life forever.
So like I was like let meexplore that concept, especially
because I know people I wasfriends with in my early 20s
that I don't talk to anymore.
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but ithappens.
People grow apart.
So I was like well, that's gotto happen in books too.
It's got to happen withcharacters.

(08:36):
It just makes it to me a morebelievable story.
And you also see past moraldifferences.
I look at something a certainway, you look at something a
certain way and we can't getpast it.
And that happens like that'swhy the divorce rates fill 50%.
Like you know, peopleeventually may run into a
problem that they can't get pastand I think that makes again if

(08:58):
I can walk away from theproblem.
It's very difficult for me toread a book where the character
can walk away from the problem.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, it makes sense to me.
Yeah, that's a reallyinteresting storyline.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, I'm ready, I want to.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
I'm ready to read it.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
It's, and that's.
The thing is like some peopledon't like sci-fi for whatever
reason, but the book it takesplace in the future.
Yeah, that's the sci-fi, therest of the book and there's
obviously AI.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
But the rest of the book is really tackling, like
the issues of coming of age, ofservice, of, of natural rights,
um, and what are you willing tosacrifice?
To, to, to, to basically saythis is my moral stance, because
people don't share the samevalue systems.
And then you start to see, likeall these other sides, and you
get to.
You get an idea of like howgovernments would develop if

(09:48):
they had unlimited resources,cause if we can get out into
space and we can start zippingaround like the resource problem
is over.
But that doesn't mean that it'sgoing to be utopia, because in
my future I think about whatwould it be like if Halliburton
could get to the moon first.
I guarantee you, if Halliburtoncould get to Mars, they'd be

(10:10):
like it's ours, yeah, wholeplanet, yep, yep.
So in my future you have, likethere's this company called
Parsons and they sell planets,that's their whole thing.
They get there first and theyhave the.
Basically, the laws in theparliament were written a

(10:30):
certain way where they they haveto meet these certain criteria
and then the whole planet istheirs.
So then they're like we've gotthis planet fixer upper, yeah,
but here's, here's like all thegreat neighborhoods, so you've
got.
You've got uncontrolled stripmining and you've got.
You've got mass manufacturingproblems.
You've got planets that areliterally just military machines
and all the planet does isproduce weapons, and don't they
need a lot of ice, like in thisworld?
Well, if you think about, likewhen we colonize our solar

(10:53):
system, we're going to need alot of ice Because there's no
ready-made planets except forthis one.
So if we live on Mars andtechnically terraforming it
might be possible, but it's 70,90 years In my future on Mars it
has been terraformed, but Iwent a different way with my
Mars, because it seems likeevery sci-fi that has a Martian

(11:16):
population, they're always likea badass military.
In mine, it's the MarsTechnological Collective.
They're just a bunch of fuckingscientists, but scientists
built badass shit.
It's the mars technologicalcollective.
They're just a bunch of fuckingscientists, but scientists
built badass shit.
So they're like throw a nuke atus and we'll just swat that
shit out of the air.
Nice, we have a bunch of.
So they have a bunch ofdefensive networks and you learn
as you go through the books.

(11:37):
You start to learn that theyhave the most comprehensive
network of spies.
Yeah, so they're very defensivein nature, so, but yeah, you
need a lot of ice.
And I talk a lot about that inthe first book because it's like
the how I just think about howwould the army really be?
Well, united colonies gotkicked off earth.
They started the country.
Well, they probably would start.

(11:57):
They would have some kind oftraining near earth because
that's where most, becauseeveryone came from earth.
There are no other like 2,400years in the future.
Everyone could probably stilltrace their lineage back to
earth, cause every human camefrom earth at some point.
So they do all the training onTitan.
So Titan is a moon.
You got to have biomes.
There's gravity differences.
You got to have waterfiltration and air filtration

(12:19):
and and and deal in things likethat.
But the colony, like once hegoes to, like the Capitol the
Capitol's basically thePortuguese word for paradise,
because it is, it's a beautifulplace and it's about the same
mass as earth, so it's gotsimilar gravity.
So some of the planets in thecolonies are ready-made, like
you can just move in.
But you got to deal with localwildlife and shit and I've come

(12:40):
up with some pretty interestingkind of predatory type creatures
in certain places, some prettyinteresting kind of predatory
type creatures in certain places.
So you think about how long ittook America to become east to
west?
That's only going to be able tobe magnified in the future with
greater technology.
So it took us, you know, 250years to get to where we're at
right now.
How long would it take apopulation to grow on a planet?

(13:02):
So you've already got ready,even 400 years.
You've already got ready even400 years.
You've already got ready-madecities, you've got established.
You've got some places thathave been there 300 years.
They've already got lore,they've already got tradition,
they've got churches.
They've got their own littleidiosyncrasies.
One of my favorite thing to dois I've got pirates in my book
and they have their own patois.
They have their own, they havetheir own dialect.

(13:26):
They have their own words forthings.
And you start to learn like howthey got mashed up.
The only mistake I think I madebecause I try to be specific is
I've got this other dialect,that's a, that's a mashup
between Mandarin and Russian,and those languages couldn't be
further apart.
I was going to say like animpossible language to learn.
Basically, just going to aportmandeu generator and I'm
putting in the Russian word andthe Chinese word, I'm basically
just going to a portmandeaugenerator and I'm putting in the

(13:47):
Russian word and the Chineseword and I'm like fuck it
Because, and like you can't makethem work together.
Yeah, I thought it would beinteresting if you had these
people, if you really did take abunch of Chinese immigrants and
a bunch of Russian immigrantsand put them on the same moon
together and you left them therefor 300 years.
What the hell would you seewhen you got back?
Everyone would look different.
Yeah, their language would becrazy too.

(14:09):
Yes, it would.
You know, cause it's, it'sthat's the only way that you can
really do.
That is, we can't do it onearth anymore.
So you don't get to seelanguages develop like that.
So I try not to come up withcrazy slang words, cause who
knows, I try not to be like thehip hop culture of the future.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
What's that going to be?

Speaker 1 (14:22):
like, yeah, it people may be into, like you know,
like Halloween polka, at thatpoint you never know what's
going to happen.
So I try to keep the languagesmore realistic, to where things
are and like in the piratecommunity, um, like, if you
don't speak like us, we lookdown on you.
So anybody can join it, causethey're they're basically
libertarians, the free fleets,and it's basically works like a

(14:43):
pirate ship.
The captain the free fleets,and it's basically works like a
pirate ship.
The captain is voted for, thecrew's got to vote for what
we're doing very democratic butalso very libertarian.
Oh, you want to fucking destroya whole planet?
Go ahead, I don't give a shit.
Yeah, um, but you don't talklike us, you must not be one of
us.
Um, and piracy doesn't likebeing on the dirt.
So, as pirate, like pirates thattry to be like, hey, let's take

(15:04):
over a planet and other pirateswill look down on them, cause
they're like, why do I want toplant it?
Yeah, what would I do on aplanet?
I can't pirate on a planet.
So they're like I don't want tobe a farmer.
So my, my, my, my pirates arekind of cling on.
And then, in regards that, like, the military side of things is
more well-respected, um, andthe ships of legend.

(15:24):
So you've got and you'rejumping into it where there's
already a lot of history.
So, you, you hear about piratesof the past.
There's one pirate that you'llhear about constantly, called
Nytal, and Nytal was the one ofthe first pirates to basically
bring the United Colonies Navyto its knees.
Like, she was a brillianttactician and they eventually
murdered her.
Um, and there's little Eastereggs that are spread out

(15:46):
throughout the book about that.
But then, like you, you, youmeet her daughter later on and,
like, you, see how different herdaughter is from how she was,
cause she ended up being raisedin a certain situation because
of what her mother did.
Um, so you've got all the bigcharacter types that you could
have in like modern thrillers.
You can still put them insci-fi.
It's just going to be on a shipversus a boat.

(16:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, you'vegot your drug dealers.
You've got your CIA spooks.
You got your spies.
You got your hardcore, grizzledmercenaries.
You got your former, you knowspecial forces guys that just
want to be fucking retired Leaveme.
And you've got your, you know18, 19 year old privates in the
army.
That that you know they.
They mean well, but they don'tknow what's going on.
And I had.

(16:29):
I had a lot of fun with thatwriting the whole basic training
series, cause I actually writeit twice.
He goes through basic trainingin the first book and he goes
through basically SFAS and then,o course, in the third book.
It's cause he becomes specialforces, cause he doesn't know
what else to do.
It's like, yeah, I'll do this,whatever.
Yeah, um, cause you got to dofive years, so whatever.

(16:49):
But I get to like characterizepeople that I served with.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I was going to ask you, I was going to say like do
you?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I don't do any main characters, but I will do it
with supporting characters andit's not like a carbon copy.
Yeah, you're just like kind ofinfluenced by that, yeah but
there's one and I had one of,one of the most that one of the
most popular characters from thefirst book is powder, who is a
who basically is a screw gunner,which is like the futuristic
saw.
So he's a saw gunner.
I served with a guy that wecalled powder and he was this

(17:21):
pale, five foot six, just ballof fucking anger from arkansas,
and he was this pale, five footsix, just ball of fucking anger
from Arkansas, and he was justangry at everything and I'm like
that's a good character rightthere.
So he ends up well, spoileralert he ends up, like you know,
dying.
But I kind of borrowed fromPowder.

(17:43):
I borrowed the name obviouslybecause this was back in 99,
when the movie was stillrelevant.
So that's why he got borrowedfrom Powder.
I borrowed the name obviously,and this was back in 99, when
the movie was still relevant.
So that's why he got thenickname Powder, because the
movie had been recent.
If I said that today, peopleare like what are you?
It's the movie about the albinoguy with the lightning.
But I enjoyed writing thatcharacter because there are
people like that all over themilitary that are just no matter

(18:05):
what.
They're always angry when theyhave to do stuff.
Like, oh, you're going to makeme work.
I'm like what did you think wedo here?
So I have a lot of fun withdeveloping characters and I love
Easter eggs.
So if you read my books, anyship name is probably an Easter
egg, and sometimes people catchit and sometimes they don't, and

(18:25):
sometimes I'll turn it into abit.
In the first book there's thiswhere they're waiting, they're
going to get, they're going touse one of the wormhole gates
because that's like how futuretravel happens wormholes and
they're behind a ship called theBob O'Reilly.
Well, if you're familiar withthe song Bob O'Reilly, it takes
fucking forever to get going,it's just all.

(18:47):
It's like 45 seconds of run upand then the lyrics start.
So, like the, the, the, thecaptain is like what, what are
we waiting on?
She's like well, the BobO'Reilly is going first, and
they always take a while to getgoing.
That's awesome.
So far I've had like two peoplecatch that.
I think it's an old Doors songor it may have been the who.
I think it's the who, butthere's a preamble of just

(19:12):
instrumentals there for like 45seconds.
And then there's a Jeremy Jam.
There's a cargo ship named theJeremy Jam from Parks and Rec.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oh, he's a hilarious character.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
So, yeah, any kind of like side.
Any kind of like side.
Any time they mention like oh,you know what's on the sensors
or whatever, I'm always likeI've got a list of character
like Easter egg ships that Istill want to put in there.
Oh man, I have a lot of funwith that.
The guys that wrote the Expansedid that too, and that's kind

(19:41):
of where I got the idea.
I was like that's, have somefun with it and see who actually
catches it.
Oh, that's, that's great.
And anytime I can work it intoa bit, um, I'm definitely going
to do it.
I like, I like hiding littlethings like that in books.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Did you ever do any where you thought no one will
ever get this one and somebodykind of figured it out.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
I honestly didn't know if anybody would get the
context of the Baba O'Reilly oneyeah, of the Baba O'Reilly one,
yeah, yeah.
And I had a couple peoplemessage me, I think one guy
commented on one of the reviewswhere he thought that was pretty
funny, that's awesome Becauseit's so specific.
You like, not only do you haveto make the connection, but you
also think like, yeah, that songdoes take a while to get going.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
You're on Amazon, right?
Is that where all the books aresold?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, it's self-publishing through Kindle.
So there's the Rushing Winterbooks.
There's seven of those about tobe eight, and then the Carson
Gray series, the Exodus Universe.
There's three books so far andthere'll be nine total, so
another nine.
So I'm going to write thatstory for nine.
But there's also going to bethree books that talk about this

(20:43):
guy named Ark Vassar, and ArkVassar gets mentioned a lot in
the future, but by the time thefuture happens, they know him as
Asmuth because he's like andthis is this is going to be kind
of I like being able to do this, cause it's not like just a
cheap flashback for more money,like you start to learn, like
how certain things happen, likehow did the eviction start, how

(21:04):
did the colony start.
So this book will go back andfollow Ark Vassar's life from
birth to death or birth toExodus, because he becomes like
the first human hyperintelligence.
He basically creates artificiallife and in so doing, creates
artificial DNA, like sentient,the ability.

(21:25):
They call it ethels.
So that's what?
Yeah, that's like the species.
Some people call them signs,machina, machina, signs, machina
, and then they prefer the termethel because it's different
language, different translation.
So he grows up, his dad works inlike computer science.
His mom is a quantum physicistand, long story short, he goes

(21:52):
from being Arik Vassar to beingthis, this hyper-intelligent
hybrid name that everybody callsAsmuth, and he leaves earth and
earth tries to stop him fromleaving.
So there's a fucking war thattakes place where they basically
nuke half of fucking Australia,because that's where he lived
creates a sovereign nation.
He basically he's like this ismy, this is mine, and there's a
bunch of other stuff going on onearth at the same time that
makes this possible, like itbecomes a world government.

(22:14):
And he develops this abilitythrough his personal
modification of himself.
He creates this, this neurolattice that was originally
intended to just modify naturalabilities, but in creating
artificial life he starts tolearn about like quantum
entanglement and it doesn't givehim like magical powers, but it
lets him tap into entanglementand he starts to learn over the

(22:36):
period of 74 years, like what hecan do, and eventually he
starts to scare people becausehe stops being human.
He starts being something else,but he's able to manipulate
electronics, he's able tomanipulate quantum fields, he's
able to manipulate magneticfields, and no one really knows
how he's doing it.
So they try to kill him a bunchof times and that never goes

(22:58):
well and he eventually like,just out of out of like a
self-defense type situation, hefigures out that he can kill
people, like this guy tries toshoot him and without like a
reflexive response, was he juststopped the neuron communication
and the actions of brainstem?
Wow, just killed him.
Just like that he did, and hecalls it a reach.

(23:19):
And then later on, cause I'vealready written two of the three
books, of course, cause Iwanted, I wanted my Simarillion,
yeah, I wanted to be able tohave that lore done before I
went any further, cause I should, I could have already written
the fourth Carson Gray book,cause I already know basically
what's what I'm working on.
But I wanted to go back and havemy lore write my three books

(23:40):
that take place, you know, inbetween 2080 and 2154.
So that way, 400 years, 350,400 years in the future, I can
always go back and make surethat the continuity is correct.
Yeah, because Azmuth and hiseffects, even 350 years later,
are still being felt, because hecreated the first true sentient

(24:01):
artificial life, so he's likethe father of it and in so doing
created a religion on accident.
But that religion is a majormilitary power in the future and
that starts to become part ofthe story and there's a little
bit of mysticism involved.
I'm having a lot of fun withthose books because they're not
as sci-fi, they take place justin the future, yeah they're not

(24:23):
too distant.
So you talk about electric carsand like flying and flying super
cool VTOL aircraft, but likethere's a little bit of space
travel, here and there there'ssome, you know there's
eventually there's some orbitalweapons, but it's not really
we're out in space.
It's like this guy justbasically said this part of
Australia is mine, try to takeit back.
You weren't using it.
Long story short, he negotiateshis way through a bunch of

(24:45):
situations and that book isreally political.
Those three books are going tobe very political because they
talk about how it'd becompletely feasible for this to
happen.
They keep pushing this kid.
So it was interesting for mebecause the first book of that
I'm going to write it from, mostof it's going to be written
from the father's perspective.
His arc is still like one, two,three years old, but it sees
like how his whole life getsinfluenced by good intentions,

(25:07):
bad intentions, indifference andjust the outside world, feeling
like, well, you're smart.
But this guy, we need to makesure we have an equitable
situation.
And he's like equal outcomescan't be guaranteed.
And they're like, well, we aregoing to try.
So you think about how, likesome of today's political
opinions are, well, everybodydeserves an equal outcome.

(25:30):
It's not realistic.
Everybody deserves an equalopportunity, but even then,
let's be realistic Should youlet a five foot two guy try out
for the NBA, I mean, if there'stime?
But he's not going to get anequal outcome.
So those books are going to bebasically kind of shape, the

(25:52):
core of the technology, becauseI had one guy ask me he's like
why don't more of your shipshave like laser guns and stuff?
He's like you're still usinglike ballistic weapons and chain
guns and like well, in thefuture we're going to have all
kinds of different stuff.
It's like I don't know, man,the 1950s thought we were going
to have some cool shit.
Yeah right, man, the 1950sthought we were going to have
some cool shit that we don't.
Yeah Right.
I was like there's a reason forthat, but I can't tell you

(26:13):
because I have to write thesebooks first.
And basically the reason islike once you start using
artificial intelligence to docertain things for you, you
don't want to give it too big ofa gun, just in case.
So like lasers would be superdangerous in space battle
because it just keeps going,yeah yeah.
And if you get into a battleand orbital situation, like

(26:36):
where's that laser going to go.
So they create, they use, youknow, torpedoes, and the
torpedoes have a max debt range.
So if they don't hit nothing,eventually they just blow
themselves up, and the bulletsdo too.
So even on, even in like anearth conflict, they can.
They can set their, their,their, their, uh duty rifles to
self-debt or command debt, sothey can put four or five rounds

(26:57):
in a guy and then command debt.
Those rounds, that's awesome.
Or they can have the um, um,mean distance, uh, it's like I
have an acronym for it.
But basically the, the, thebullets are self-sharpening.
They're similar to likedepleted uranium.
So on board a ship they can setthem um to basically harden, so
they're almost like ball ammoso they don't over penetrate.

(27:19):
Uh, so they're not like likethey won't go through a guy, guy
and the outside of the ship andcreate a vacuum situation.
But sometimes they punch holesin the ship on purpose.
The funnest thing I've had frombecause I try to write is I try
to write my battles asauthentically as possible, my
fights as authentically aspossible.
But you got to think of threedimensions, because in my future
there is no magical gravity onthe ships.

(27:40):
They work up to thrust gravity.
Have you seen the Expanse?
So a TV show called the Expanseand it's hard science fiction.
So they deal with thrustgravity.
So they didn't.
Just the authors didn't want tocreate a magical like dampening
field or something like that.
So in my books, like for high Gmaneuvers, they use basically a

(28:02):
golden ratio liquid which issimilar to the density of water
but it's breathable.
So these, the fighters, if theyuse fighters or the little pods
that the bridge crew is in, andsome ships fill the whole cabin
, some don't.
They just basically go on air,they breathe through it and they
fill this cabin with thiswater-dense material so they can

(28:24):
handle more geese, but out ofgeese or out of the fluid, like
if you're fighting on a ship.
The ships have to be built forthrust but they're also built
for landing on planets, sosometimes the room you're in is
sideways, so that has I've hadto draw a lot of stuff like it's
coming in here, yeah, it'd looklike that.
And I use the program blenderfor 3d modeling and I will

(28:47):
actually 3d render all my ships.
That's awesome, which issometimes it's like oh, I only
got to know what it looks likeon the outside.
But I've literally gotten intocrew compartments and I'm like
how would this look and wouldthis make sense and is this
feasible?
Going back, it would have beenway easier to be like thank God
for the gravity device, but Ijust feel like that's taking it.
We're probably never going tocreate in any lifetime, anytime

(29:11):
soon, create a device thatgenerates gravity.
So I guess you make the shipspin a lot.
There you go, but then the shipwould have to be really big,
otherwise people are gettingreally sick.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, I think it's just such a cool.
Your approach to writing andsci-fi in general is so cool,
Because I didn't grow up intosci-fi, I've never really been
into it, but the way that youwrite and explain it and go
about it it makes me like maybeI do like sci-fi.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Honestly, I think some people have just watched
bad sci-fi, yeah, and I thinkthat's the case with people and
that's possible.
There's some things that areout there that are like really
good sci-fi but they don't havea good like reputation or not a
good reputation but they're notwell-known.
Yeah, like there's been somegreat shows that weren't like
sci-fi was just like theenvironment it took place in,

(30:01):
but the show was like FireflyGreat show.
It's a space Western, it's noteven sci-fi, it's just cowboys
in space.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's apretty interesting approach.
And there's other, like Iwasn't really big into like
fantasy horror, but then I gotinto supernatural and I burned
through 15 seasons like thatRight Same here, same here what

(30:24):
are my boys doing today?
And I've gone like they were on.
That show was on the airforever.
Yeah, we don't get shows likethat anymore.
Now we're like, hey to everytwo years, we're going to give
you eight episodes.
Yeah, exactly, you're going tolike it.
Yeah, so you're going to payfor it.
I like to go back and watchthat, but I think, yeah,
sometimes people just haven'tgiven.

(30:45):
Given sci-fi, modern sci-fithat bugs me a little bit.
Yeah, the last episode of StarTrek Discovery, I'm like this is
, it's a hat on a hat.
You already have the perfectvehicle to tell stories.
You can just create mirrorimages of modern events and
don't, but you don't have topoint at it.
Yeah, so sometimes, whenthey're like pointing at it, I'm

(31:08):
like man, this, this is like32nd century.
I think the trans rights issuewould have been settled by now.
I don't feel like you wouldstill be addressing this in the
32nd century.
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that'sjust.
That's more unbelievable thanthis guy teleporting into the
room.
I feel, like we would havehandled that by now we can

(31:30):
teleport but we can't.
Once we have different species.
Like oh, his genitals are inhis knees, I think that issue is
going to be dead anyway.
Yeah, it's like can we breed?
I'd like to try.
Looks like it might be fun.
Yeah, the future of sexualrelations.
That's going to ruin themilitary.
That could be a whole bookseries Like hey, we're going to

(31:51):
deploy you to these guys' planet, but you cannot sleep with the
natives.
Like why?
Because you don't want us to?
Or no, because they'll eat you.
Ah, they'd still go find out.
Somebody's going to be like theyain't going to eat me.
You just get to have way.
I think more interestingstories like that, but sometimes
it it does.
It does turn you off a littlebit.

(32:12):
There have been some showswhere I, I, they started off
really strong, or some booksthat I read and started off
really strong and then it justgot repetitive or it just got
too too fucking political.
Yeah, not everything has to beabout like the lotus, the latest
social justice issue.
Yeah, sometimes I'm, I'm hereto escape that.
Just show it.
That's why I always like TerryPratchett, because he would

(32:34):
touch on social issues but hedidn't beat you over the head
with them.
You'd be sitting there and belike that book was an allegory
for being poor.
You realize this 15 years downthe road.
Okay, cool, he got.
Okay cool, he got me.
Yeah, totally got me.
Um, instead of them, you knowthem slapping you in the face

(32:55):
with it.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
So which is nice.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
It makes you think a little bit more so like, if you
want, really entertaining hardsci-fi.
The expanse series is reallygood.
It's written by sa cory, whichis two different guys, and they
create one name.
I don't know why they did.
I couldn't write a book anotherperson, that'd be weird, yeah,
uh, but these guys did guys andthey create one name.
I don't know why they did.
I couldn't write a book withanother person, that'd be weird.
Yeah, but these guys did it andthey wrote nine books and
they're fantastic books.
The show was on Amazon, okay,and the show.
I think the show's only, I wantto say, like four seasons or

(33:18):
five seasons.
The show is amazing and thecoolest thing about the show is
I'd already started reading thebooks when the show came out and
they got the casting perfect,nice, like the characters in the
book.
You're like that's Amos Burton,that's exactly how that guy
would look.
I thought that was pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Would you ever do something like that with your oh
, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
But I would want to maintain usually writers don't
get creative control.
That's why you see like, ifyou've read a book and then you
saw the movie, it's like what?
Yeah, it doesn't make any, Iwould want to maintain I would
try to negotiate for some kindof creative control.
Yeah, or I just be like.
Well, this happens to everyother writer, so just can I get
my check yeah, yeah because if,like this, they're like no, we

(33:58):
never give that, I'm like, well,tap another zero on that, I
guess, and I'm out the door.
Like you can, you can have it.
But yeah, I would absolutelylove to be able to see that,
because some things, like thereare certain things that you
can't put on a screen.
Like Blood Meridian is a bookand they've tried to turn it
into a movie multiple times andit's just, it's one of the they

(34:21):
say it's impossible to do.
Eventually someone's going todo it, but it's going to be the
most violent first 15 minutesyou've ever seen of any movie
and it's probably going to berated NC 17.
That's why they haven't beenable to do it.
But you can't have the wholebook without what takes place
throughout the book, so you gotto be careful what you cut up.

(34:41):
I think about that, I'm like,but there's certain things that
you can.
You can do in a show, you can'tdo in a book, cause I'd love to
be able to show the ships andarmor and and the way that, like
the interactions happen betweenthe humans and the ai and like
the it's not an astral plane butit's like a quantum
entanglement kind of things,like how they're able to
communicate with each other andhow there's like a, there's a

(35:03):
like a visceral emotionalreaction to that.
I use colors in the books torepresent it.
Like you can kind of figure outwhat an athel is thinking if
you can see them and like theirlattice, which is basically like
a, you know, kind of likepicture of the brain, but like
made of like infinite angles,like colors will trace through
it and like eventually you startto learn what the colors mean

(35:30):
and you have an idea, becausethey they have emotions, but
they're higher order than ours.
So they still feel hate andanger and love, but they're also
constantly objectively thinkingand they're constantly going
through recursion, so they'reconstantly trying to
self-improve.
Um, but yeah, long answer, no,yeah, I think being able to show
that stuff, yeah, a tv showwould probably be the best,
because you're not the movie,you'd have to cut so much stuff
out.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, if you ever write asci-fi book and you need, an
actor has face tattoo.
Yeah, I'm in.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
No, tattoos are a very prominent part of my books.
In fact, there's one whole sectof of of uh characters in my
books that have like biomedicaltattoos that are.
They.
They're reactive to certainenvironments or they provide
certain advantages, and they'rebasically like a status symbol.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, so my maces too .
I just don't tell anybody thatExactly it's future yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
That's pretty hardcore getting a mace on your
head, though.
I saw that yesterday at thestore and I'm like sometimes I I
have not liked anything enoughto get tattooed on my head.
My wife just got got her handsdone.
Yeah, I don't like anythingenough to put it on my put my
wedding.
I was gonna say yes, yeah, yeah, wedding ring yeah, which is
always a hilarious conversationwith some fud at like like I got

(36:38):
a chick tennessee volunteersthat way.
This guy.
I was at chick-fil-a and Iusually don't go in, but I did
and there was this older guy andI just assumed he was a boomer.
He was old enough to be one,yeah.
But then he, he opened hismouth and removed all that he's
like, and I was wearing a suitand I would.
Just where I was, I was holdingthe bar, he couldn't see that.
Yeah, so he did.
He just assumed that was likethe only tattoo I had and I'm

(36:58):
like, wait till I check my watch, bro.
Yeah, but he's like, that's adamn shame, you know them.
Things are permanent.
I was like, bro, that's mywedding ring.
I think those are supposed tobe permanent too, exactly.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
And then I like looked at the time and he was
like yeah, yeah, tattoos are funyeah.
I've been, I've been working onit for a while and I you know,
initially they all had meaningand now I'm like yep, let me get
a little ghost.
Uh-huh Says, well, shit, yep,that's how it goes, man, that's

(37:35):
how it goes.
Eventually you run out ofmeaning.
Yeah, you just got to getstarted.
You start getting shit.
You think looks cool.
Yeah, like I got a.
I got thought lichens were cool.
Yeah, rip it, man.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
I was like, let me fucking.
I am deathly afraid of liketattoos.
But I found out.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
I did it at a tattoo convention and we did it two
days in a row and he put me heentered the tattoo in the best
work of show.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Oh shit, I didn't get anything.
Yeah, you never get anything.
You get a tattoo, the tattooergets money, a trophy.
I got nothing.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
I was like so wait a minute, I could be at home right
now.
I've been waiting here just forthis and I don't even get a
soda, Thanks.
And I don't even get a soda,Thanks, dude.
Yeah.
And I was like why don't youguys have a category for best
healed?
And I'll be back next year.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, seriously, I haven't been to a tattoo
convention Dude.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
I sat for two days, 12 hours total.
While I'm sitting, my wife isdisappearing for an hour, two,
three hours at a time, comingback with more tattoos.
In the period that I got one, Ithink she got like five, oh wow
, because she's mostly finished,like her legs are almost done,
so she's just filling in thoselittle spaces you end up with.

(38:52):
So she's like get a littlePikachu.
And then she went and got likeone of the ghost nurses from
Mario, because she's the samething.
She's like I got all my meetingpieces done.
Now I'm just getting shit Ilike.
And I'm kind of at the samepoint.
If I could go back and do itover again, I probably would
have put more all the lore onone arm and something else on
the other one.
Yeah, like I didn't startgetting color until I got up

(39:14):
here.
Yeah, and I got one side of myribs done.
Ooh, the ribs done.
Ooh, the worst.
I don't think I will ever getthe other side done, because I
remember what that feels like.
Nope, and I it was the onlytime I'd ever had to purposely
stop a tattoo because it hurtsso bad.
I was like I'm good.
Now they got all these creams.
No, that's off limits.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
No, you can't do that , no, man.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I put my time in.
Yeah, next time I get work done, I am, you're doing it.
It should have numbed up forthat.
Yeah, I put I, I got, I've got,I've got hundreds of hours of
work?
Yeah, just raw dogging it.
Yeah, I'm gonna go back and getanother tattoo without being
like I'm gonna get some nummy.
Yeah, I'm gonna pre-apply yeahwhen I get in there.

(39:57):
You can.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
There's guys that like put the cream on and saran
wrap it before a few hoursbefore they go.
So then when?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
they get there.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, you do that with laser hair removal.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, there was this tattooer out in California that,
like he'll put you under.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, they do that now If you're getting a full
like piece or something.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
They'll do your whole body at once.
Oh wow, hey, I got a tattootoday.
What'd you?
Yeah, which is like but I meanit costs.
Oh yeah, you got to be superrich but one and there's like
five artists working on you yeah, time.
Oh wow, thanks, but you're justdone.
Like they'll just do your wholebody.
Yeah, like I can only imagineyou wake up and you're like oh
god, this, like your whole bodywould be like.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, it'd be like a sunburn basically, it's kind of
how it feels.
My dad just got his, uh, entireback, his entire back blasted,
and he said that was he's headto toe I don't know if I'll ever
get my back and he said it wasby far the worst.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, I wonder how that heals, you know, because
like be careful with it, yeah mywife, she, she did her.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Not all of her back is done, but she's got a like a
big core of it finished and, um,I was the one having to do that
after care because she can'tget to it.
Yeah, and I'm like I like well,I can't even see it, so why do
I care?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't knowif I'll ever get my back done.
I'm trying to, I'm still tryingto finish my legs, but every
time I try I have to be carefulgetting tattoos because I'm on
the road all the time.
Yeah, and like I'll get atattoo and then, like I

(41:17):
immediately taught two days onthe range in the summer and they
never showed up.
Yeah, like I, even with sunblock, like it just it cooked, it
cooked the ink right out of them.
Oh, wow, so I had them wentover with with that ink and I
just kind of cause the white ink.
I wanted to.
You can only notice it ifyou're paying attention, but
whatever, um, I worry about that.
Yeah, cause now, if I get myleg done and then I go teach, a

(41:44):
class in June, like is sweatgoing to be a problem?

Speaker 3 (41:45):
And like aftercare and all that.
I've gotten pretty lucky.
I used to be a structuralwelder so when I got my hands
and my head and stuff done itwas like back to welding the
next day.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
And it was like see what happens.
What I'm trying to do is like,let me get the tattoos in, like
the fall and winter yeah, it'seasier to protect them.
Definitely, so, definitely.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Got that going for me , I guess.
Yeah, yeah, I'm scared to startmy legs.
Man, I got little ones, but forsome reason my thighs are
almost done.
I haven't started on the calvesyet, yeah, the thighs dude.
Oh man, I've waited so longsince my last one, where it's
been like a year and a halfsince them.
You kind of forget what itfeels like Exactly, and I'm like
the only tattoo I remember isthe ribs.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, like, if you're like, hey, did it hurt there?
I'm like, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, maybe I need to geta tattoo my wife's going to do
behind my ear.
Nice, I'm going to be the onlyhead tattoo I ever get.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Cause I'll just get the little muted mic behind my
ear.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
That's.
That's a good one.
It's a good idea?
I think so, yeah, and I thinkpeople will get it.
That's a real good idea.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
The other side.
Yeah, the hearing on my rightside is not good.
Yeah, no-transcript.

(43:08):
Now at the new house we havemuch more normal ceiling heights
and I don't have to wear theheadphones anymore.
But you know, sometimesthere'll be places and someone
would be talking and their,their vote, their voice is like
just the right pitch that Ican't hear.
So they're talking to me butbecause of the ambient noise I
can't hear them and I'm like,can you put some bass in your
voice?

(43:28):
Say it with your chest or speak, and I'm like I'm sorry, I feel
bad for having hearing damage,especially when it's like the
third time you've asked somebodywhat.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah, exactly Like this guy does not care about
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, time you've asked somebody what.
Yeah, exactly like this guydoes not care about what I'm
saying.
Yeah, you know my wife, she'lltalk to me from the other room
and I said you know, all I canhear is vowels.
Right, like I have no idea whatyou just said.
I just hear like, text me, textme.
So she'll actually do that.
She'll text me from upstairsbecause she knows if she yells
like I'll know she's talking tome.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
But I hope you can hear noises, but that's about it
, yeah, yeah I'm sure, I'm surethey can probably work together
sometimes though.
So what's your website?

Speaker 1 (44:04):
SageDynamicsorg.
The website's mainly justinformational for classes, so
you can get an idea of whatclasses are, their calendar's on
there, and then you know basicinformation, background, bio,
all that kind of stuff.
There's nothing reallyinteractive in there.
I used there for for gear.

(44:24):
I need to bring that back.
It's just hard to do.
Merchandising yeah, I've, I'vehad terrible luck with it.
I had for a while I had someoneelse doing my t-shirts for me
and it went great and then itfell apart and then I moved it
to somebody else had the sameproblem, moved to somebody else
had this problem.
So, um, I'm going to figure outhow to do it myself, but I need
somebody else to do fulfillmentbecause I don't have time to be
shipping stuff and things likethat.
And then I'm on Instagram SageDynamics.

(44:46):
I'm more active these days onTwitter at Sage Dynamics, so
it's pretty easy.
I'm at Sage Dynamics.
So you'll find me I'm not onTumblr and your Patreon is doing
pretty good too.
Huh, yeah, I'm also on Patreon.
So for Patreon there's there'slike a Patreon curious category.
You pay two, 50 a month.

(45:07):
You get two videos.
So two videos randomly you'llhave access to Um.
Then I have a $5, which is likethat's the basic level.
You get all the videos.
Um, pretty much the only videoyou don't get at a, at $5 level,
is you don't get the learninglevel stuff.
Uh, so you're going to get allthe reviews, any kind of
commentary videos.
You get to participate in themonthly challenges, stuff like

(45:29):
that.
And then at $15, you get atleast one video a month.
It's like learning based, likelet's talk about this technique
or that technique or thisconcept or that principle, and
those are usually prettycomprehensive.
I try to do at least one amonth of those.
But yeah, I think Patreon isgood.
It's more, it's more signal,less noise.

(45:50):
So even in the comment section,like everybody's pretty chill,
yeah, they're paying to be there.
Exactly, you know, and I, youknow I still do the YouTube
thing.
You know I'm on YouTube at SageDynamics, but everybody YouTube
thing.
You know I'm on YouTube at SageDynamics Um but everybody's just
so angry about not gettingthings for free, like that is
basically what YouTube, the gunculture on YouTube, turned into.

(46:10):
And if you say anythingfavorable about anything, you
must be a shill.
Yeah, and I'm like I am tiredof people using that word wrong.
I am tired of it Also.
I stay legally compliant.
Wrong, I am tired of it.
Also, I stay legally compliant.
If I get it for free, I'm goingto tell you I did, because I
have to.
Um, if I didn't, I'm not goingto bring that up because it

(46:31):
should be it's implied that Ipaid for it.
Since I didn't tell you Ididn't pay for it, um, but, like
, the cool thing about thePatreon is is like, like, at the
$10 and above level, you can belike hey, would you review this
?
And if it gets enough likes, ohyeah, okay, and I'll get on Gum
Broker and buy it and I'll goahead and run it through.
And then, with the challengething I've had fun with that I

(46:52):
basically, at the beginning ofevery month, I do an update
video Like, hey guys, here'swhat drill, whoever does best
get something.
And it started out I'd give awaypatches and t-shirts and a
couple of classes and then Istarted giving away like really
good stuff.

(47:13):
So like all this year I've beengiving away guns.
Um, I've done an agency armsGlock.
I've done a son's Liberty rifle, I've done a Langdon Beretta,
I've done a Glock 34, sig P365.
I've done an FN 510, an FN EdgeCC Beretta A300.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Like just 12 months of guns.
I'm just doing some mental mathhere.
That's some big figures.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Well, I mean, patreon pays for it.
You know these guys are payinginto it, so why shouldn't they
be able to benefit from that?
So, if you pay, so so.
The thing about it is, though,it's the same five guys that
keep winning, not not likestrictly, but there's five guys
in there that have their ownranges, or they have.

(47:58):
They're able to shoot on theirproperty, so they're able to
jump in on them drills.
Yeah, like James Barron.
I don't know if you know whothat is.
He's one of my alumni.
He's a dentist in Georgia, buthe's also an amazing shooter.
He won like three times in arow, and I'm like I'm not going
to tell him he can't do that,yeah, but I'm almost like, hey,

(48:19):
bro, can you let somebody?

Speaker 3 (48:20):
else win for a minute .

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Come on, tom Brady, let somebody else have a shot.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Can you just chill out Because it sucks, like it
would be crazy expensive to dofirst, second, third.
Yeah, so going into next year Imight not do as many, I'm not
going to do a gun every monthnext year, but I'm going to try
to do first, second, first,second, third.
So there's some more stuff.
But also it's like it kind ofis like hey, up your game, like
this guy, he's not magic, hejust shoot, he just practices so

(48:47):
he's able to do the drill.
And I also try to come up withdrills that in, in theory,
everyone can do.
But sometimes, like nextmonth's drill is going to be a
double bill six rifle, handgun,oh that.
Have you ever done a doubledrill?
No, for seconds.
Four seconds, four seconds, ohshit.
Six and six, damn From sevenyards.
So it's an actual drill that youdo with the rifle.

(49:08):
You start from a low ready One,two, three, four, five, six.
Transition Handgun One, two,three, four, five, six.
If you think about it, you haveenough time.
Yeah, because low ready, that'sLike you'll be able to get the
rifle up way faster than you candraw a gun and most people do a
build drill in two seconds witha handgun, right.
So four seconds just seemsperfectly reasonable to me.
Yeah, the problem with it isit's getting the rifle out of

(49:29):
the way.
I was going to say thetransition is going to be where
it's at and I shoot my bills onthe target I use for my classes.
So it's a 4x6A zone.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
So for me to get a bill drill on a four by six box
from seven yards, that's that's.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
That's harder, yeah, than your standard ipsyx or
uspsa or whatever you'reshooting it on.
I've seen some people I likethose targets, by the way, I was
looking at them.
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Um, mostly my design.
Yeah, so that drill, um, I'lldrop it on them.
I'm like, hey guys, this is adrill for january and it's a
double bill because I haven'tdone a transition drill before.
So I'm kind of eager to throwthat at them and see what they
think about it.
Um, but I've, I shoot it.
I always shoot it to show like,hey guys, here's the drill, now
watch me do it.

(50:09):
And my best run I shot a.
I shot a three nine and I gotum.
So it's four seconds.
So I was 0.10 under right, butI got 11 out of 12.
And I'm like, nah, that's goodenough, I'll show it to them,
you know, because I'm like I'mnot going to stand out here
until I get it perfect.
Yeah, so I'll show them likethree runs.

(50:30):
And I'm like here, failed it,failed it, failed it.
Or I mean it all depends on howyou score it, because the is
going to be the guy who gets thebest score If I have a bunch of
people submit and no oneactually got 12 out of 12 clean.
All right guys, no prize thismonth.
That'd be fucked up.
I'm telling everybody best timeunder par or best shot group

(50:52):
under par wins.
If you're sub four and you'veshot really well, then you're in
.
You win Nice.
I'm going to try to do first,second, third as often as I can.
That's an interesting drill.
It's dude, it's tough.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Yeah, I threw it in my head, I've done a lot of
tough drills.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
There have been some drills that I've done this year
that guys are like did have youever shot a speed bull?
No, what's that?
So speed bull is?
It's a B8.
Okay, you go back to 25 and youshoot 10 rounds.
But what's the traditional timelimit for a B8?

(51:31):
10 seconds or 20 seconds, rightFrom the holster?
20 seconds, 10 rounds that's aB8.
A speed bull is the same, but10 seconds, okay.
So you come out of the holsterand you have 10 seconds to fire
10 rounds at 25 yards.
So you're not going to do great.
Yeah, because you know you onlygot 10.
There's enough time, butthere's only enough time.

(51:52):
I do a drill called Speed BullPlus 2.
Oh man, now the difference isyou start from a sight picture
but you have to fire 10, reloadand fire two more.
Ooh, have to fire 10, reloadand fire two more.
It's just mean.
Yeah, it's mean, but it'spossible.
Yeah, baron did it and he shota.
I think he shot like an80-something.

(52:12):
Oh, wow, nice, but he probablydid it until he couldn't not do
it.
Yeah, because he's like I gotDennis money and I got nothing
to do today.
Yeah, so I'm going to go outthere and shoot this drill a
thousand times.
Yeah, I think what this month'sdrill was.
I've done some grip confirmationdrills where guys got to same

(52:33):
thing on a Speed Bull 25.
And I made them do it.
It's like it's got to be amicro nine.
It's got to be like a 365 XL ora reflex or something like that
.
It can't be a macro.
It can't be a macro.
It can't be a fuse, it's got tobe a compact gun.
Yeah, and I had them coming outof the holster on on a B8 doing
one, two and then one two and Ithink I was doing like a one

(52:53):
five par on that, um, and thenI've had them do the Eleanor
drill and then and some otherstuff, um, and some of the
drills are just stuff that Idon't even.
I don't even know what the nameof it is.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
It's just something I've been shooting forever.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, like the, the, the, the bill drill, the double
bill.
Yeah, uh, we had a.
I had a SWAT instructor thatwould have us do that all the
time.
And we do six, transition six,and that was before I even came
up with a round count.
And then, when I got introducedto the bill drill the first
time in a class, I'm like, oh,I'm going to call this the
double bill and I got a fatiguedrill.

(53:30):
That's it's, uh, it's supposedto be 15 reload 15.
Um, but you can also do it as10 reload 10.
So you play with the par par,you start from a site pitcher,
10 yards, 15 reload, 15, 10seconds.
It's doable, but most peoplewill successfully complete that

(53:52):
drill between nine and par.
Yeah, it's going to be nine.
I've had some guys shoot it inlike seven, five, oh damn yeah
that's blazing, yeah, and thewhole purpose of the drill is
it's an intermediate handgundistance, cause 10 yards is not
close, but it's not far awayeither and it kind of lets you
know how quickly you can gothrough how much ammo you carry.
Yeah, so you have to do.

(54:13):
Basically, I averaged.
I was like most people arecarrying guns that have at least
15 rounds in them, so you do 15and then you go to your second
mag.
Yeah, and I'm now out of ammo.
Yeah, but I like that drill alot and I've had guys do it.
If you do it from the holster,you almost never make par.
Yeah, but if you start from asight pitcher because so many
drills start from the holsteryeah, I like to start from sight

(54:35):
pitchers.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I'm down with that.
Thanks for coming downAbsolutely Teaching the class
the past couple days and thensit down with us.
No, it's nice man.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
It's a nice change of pace to be able to sit down and
just have a conversation.
Yeah, and I've always got a lotto say because I talk for a
living.
Yeah, and then I'll immediatelygo back into introvert mode as
soon as I get out the door andI'll scurry back to my hotel
room and get Uber Eats andnobody will see me again until I
have to drive to the airport atlike four in the morning.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Go write a couple pages, yeah Right.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
It's already in my head.
I, I got, I got, I got.
I try to keep my chapters toabout eight pages.
I made.
I knocked out five pages lastnight, so I want to finish that
chapter out cause I'm eager toget my Simarillion done so I can
get back to it.
Yeah, umdle, yeah, he's like my,he's my muse sounding board guy
because he's a huge sci-fi guy.

(55:26):
So, uh, he was into the rushingwinning, he was into rushing
winner, but not like hardcore.
But when I start writing sci-filike this dude will, he will
text me you got any chapters forme?
Because he's like he gets toread everything before people,
yeah, forgets that sometimes.
So he'll be talking to somebodyabout the book and they're like
wait, what?
They're like, what are youtalking?
He's like oh shit, yeah, that'snext year.

(55:48):
Yeah, and I'm like tyler, yougotta stop doing that, bro, like
this stuff.
Spoilers, it's not copyrighteduntil I publish it.
Yeah, you gotta um, but yeah, Itry to try to get you know if I
can.
If I could write eight pages aday, seven days a week, that
could be my job, but that'snever going to happen, at least

(56:10):
I.
I don't think it is.
It'd be nice if it did, causeI'll tell you what it I love
teaching I really do.
But if I could write for aliving I just do that it's way
more fulfilling for me.
I'd probably still teach, butnot not at the pace I teach at
now.
No, but I definitely appreciateyou guys bringing me down.
I'm I'm certainly going to comeback next year, do something

(56:31):
again.
Um, maybe doing the podcast, andI guess we're not doing shooter
symposium this year.
Yeah, I don't know.
Uh, it would have to bescheduled by now.
I haven't heard it.
Yeah, if it's going to be inApril, it's gotta be.
Yeah, cause I already haveclasses scheduled in April.
So, if, if, if he, if he hitsme up, like tomorrow.
I was like, hey, we got you.
I'm like, no, bro, you waitedtoo long.
Yeah, there's not happening.

(56:59):
Yeah, I'll have to come backout here, do another podcast in
the future.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, we'll get you on the calendar for.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah, we should definitely do something Right
now.
Well, you got indoor so I couldcome out here in August Like
ain't no thing, right?
Yeah, I got to be careful whereI go in the summer.
Oh, yeah, no, you don't want tobe stuck.
Well, one year I let Hilton Yamdrag me down to Florida to
teach.
Oh no, I taught in July, ooh,and I got to be honest, it

(57:25):
wasn't as bad as I thought itwas going to be.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
See, I think Florida's worse.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
I went down there.
It's just as humid where you'reat.
The hottest class I had lastyear was Port Huron, michigan.
Yeah, now, granted summer Ithink it was late June Hottest
class of the year Miserable, Icould throw a rock and hit a
Canadian.
It should not be this hot.
I'm literally like hey,everybody, he's right across the

(57:50):
street and here's Canada, and Ijust see them bobbing around
over there Drinking their TimHortons or whatever the fuck
they do, and I'm like I couldjust how.
Why is it this hot here?
Yeah, cause I have a cousin, um, she's lived in Canada 30 years
and she never once has she saidanything about it being hot.

(58:11):
Yeah, so I just assumed Canadawas always freezing or kind of
nice.
That's what I always assumed.
I didn't know it even got hotin Canada.
So I'm in Michigan, like 30yards away from Canada, and it's
just blazing hot.
I think it was like it got it.
The first range day it was like104.
And then the second range dayit was like one.
It got up to 110 towards theend of the day and I'm like how

(58:34):
is this?
Is?
We are way too far north?
No, that's horrible.
It had something to do withsome kind of like jet stream
thing or something like that,and I'm like, okay, but of all,
like I expect heat like that incertain places.
Yeah, you can find that intexas, you can find that in
arizona, you can find that incalifornia, but michigan- come
on dude.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yeah, that's wild.
I never would have guessed that.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Yeah, me neither I had my first summer here this
summer and they told me it wasactually pretty mild.
It wasn't that?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
bad.
It wasn't as bad as we've hadin the past, but I was like I.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I've taught here in the summer before um, out at
eagle lake.
Oh yeah, so similar, basicallythe same climate it's not
terrible, terrible, but stillhot.
Um, like I won't go to arizona,like even I won't even teach a
night class in arizona in thesummer, because arizona doesn't
cool off when it gets dark.
Right, yeah, which is bananas.

(59:24):
The first time I ever went toArizona I'm like, oh, it's
almost dark, it'll cool off.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Yeah, why is it not?
Why is the wind hot?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Yeah, and I grew up in a desert but, I grew up in a
high desert, so when the sunwent down, it got cold, yeah,
super cold.
And I grew up in a high desert,so when the sun went down, it
got cold, yeah, super cold.
And our wind was never hot.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Yeah, just uncomfortable, it just feels
wrong.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Yeah, I guess the opposite would be living
somewhere super cold whereyou're like why do I live
somewhere where the wind hurtsmy face?

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Yeah, that's why I got out of Pennsylvania.
I mean I couldn't take thewinter anymore, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Pennsylvania, winters can be pretty rough and
depending on where you live inPennsylvania, you live in
Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Exactly, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
But some places about Pennsylvania.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Yeah.
So key takeaways from thispodcast.
Go check out his books.
They sound pretty cool.
The Carson Grace series isreally nice.
I've been enjoying that one.
The Fortunate Son yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
This first book in there.
And then the other takeaway isfuck, michigan in July.
That's right.
Apparently gets hot as hell.
Entry to this, but yeah, don'tgo to.
I'm not going to Michigan inJuly.
It's too humid, too hot, unlessyou're going to throw rocks and
again that could have just beensome freak occurrence.
You know, I think I got a classcoming up in Michigan again.
Next year it's probably notgoing to be like that, but we're
going to find out.
Yeah, report back.
Well, cool, thanks for comingdown.

(01:00:44):
Yeah, absolutely, I had a blast.
Good talking to you guys, goodquestions.
I'll talk to you too.
I'll go in-depth on stuff Ilike.
You started asking me aboutboring stuff.
I probably wouldn't have hadmuch to say.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Well, thank you all for watching.
Thank you for sticking aroundand checking us out Like.
Well, thank you all forwatching.
Thank you for sticking aroundand checking us out Like,
subscribe, comment, all thatstuff.
I'm not really sure what to say, but just share it, do it all.
Do it all.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Do the social media.
Y'all know what to do, Y'allare smart.
But yeah, thanks for watching.
We will, I guess, see you nexttime.