BITCOIN ENDGAME | AMERICAN HODL & ERIK CASON - THE Bitcoin Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We are going to win.

(00:01):
The big question now is, like, on what time span is that going to be?
Who are going to be the people that implement it?
And, like, how is this going to manifest itself?
The Bitcoin story is going to go, boom, rocket ship, blocked by rocket ship.
It's going straight up and to the right, okay?
And all your dreams are going to come true.
And then what?

(00:22):
And then what?
What the fuck are you going to do after you have a Lambo and a mansion?
What do you do next?
spend a lot more time thinking about that
because Lambos and mansions come and go
and by the way, like, they're nothing
it's all nothing, it just means nothing
like, you're flying first class
you're drinking champagne, you're in a Lamborghini
it means fucking nothing

(00:42):
there's no difference between drinking Highlights
and sitting in the back of a Camry and flying Southwest
it doesn't matter, none of that shit matters
the thing that matters is the world we build
the world we leave behind
Bitcoin's a thousand year system
we are going to be, we're the new capital allocators
of that world and we're going to be leaving large amounts of bitcoin and hopefully new ideas and new
systems to the people that come after us like look if you're too retarded to like play out a full game

(01:07):
theory and that like you only got that far like congratulations like you lose and like anybody
who's actually smart enough to get what's going on is like oh shit like nationalization is like a
real risk at this point in time because like obviously like we can't ever pay off the debt
The Bible says that you should keep a third of your wealth in gold, a third of your wealth in real estate, and a third of your wealth in your business.

(01:33):
And honestly, that advice is 2,000 years old.
It's fucking great advice.
Like, if you just replace gold with Bitcoin and you did that, you would just be super prosperous.
Like, your FA ain't going to tell you that shit.
The Bible's got you covered, though, dog.
We have Bitcoin.
It's successful.
The nation state can't stop us.
Like, if you motherfuckers could actually think for yourselves instead of listening to these fucking pieces of shit on MSNBC who fucking hate you and want to make sure that you stay in the box, you could actually free yourself from this.

(02:03):
Our broad alignment between the public and the state can actually, we can create like a life raft for everyone.
And we can basically save everyone who lives around us in America, at least we can't save the world, but we can save the other Americans.
That's the really beautiful thing, in my opinion, is that like what we're talking about isn't bat shit crazy stuff.

(02:24):
In fact, like 90 percent of humanity is in total agreement with us.
And now we have this great thing called the Internet and we have this great way to communicate called NOSTER.
We're like we can do that in a censorship resistant way that like there's an actual possibility that we could save the world from the global panopticon and totalitarianism that's coming.
But that's going to demand a lot of effort and sacrifice in a way that's different.

(02:47):
Nothing is permanent. Everything is temporary. Everything is cyclical. Everything transforms.
And like Eric said, the neoliberal world order, which basically is a cover story for the largest theft ever known to mankind.
They're stealing from every human being on Earth every time they hit the print button on the fiat central bank computer.

(03:11):
That is coming to an end because people just simply can't stand it anymore.
it has reached its inevitable conclusion or it's very near its inevitable end state
and i just don't think it's going to go on for that much longer especially once the boomers are
gone because they're the only ones who are deeply in love with it everybody else is like
fuck it who needs it yeah most people are completely cucked pussy and this is like a

(03:35):
quote from julian assange but something like the realization that like courage is way more rare than
intelligence. When I finally got that, I was like, oh shit, like this is super alarming because like
you can have smart motherfuckers who are just limp dick pussies that'll just bend over the moment
that you tell them I'm gonna fuck you. Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs. My name is

(04:02):
Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast. Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes,
the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin. And if you're listening to this right now,
remember, you are still early. If you're not already, go ahead and subscribe to this show
wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the

(04:24):
internet. If you want to follow me in the show on Noster and X, just head to the show notes to
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(04:49):
early releases of select content, plus you'll help support this show. Head to the show notes
for product discount links, go to walkeramerica.substack.com to get episodes emailed to you,
and head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else. Without further ado, let's get into this
Bitcoin talk.

(05:15):
Dude, I'm not going to lie.
That camera is pretty sweet, man.
You're really putting me to shame over here.
I've just got my old stationary camera like some fucking
like Steven Glansberg over here.
I got my own camera operator.
You know what I mean?
Dude, it's pretty dope.
All right, let's see if Zap.Stream works today.
Yes, Zap.Stream's working, you guys.
What a glorious day.

(05:35):
i was honestly a little nervous i was like man i hyped this stream too much for the stream like
not to work okay it does i i have a way of doing that um okay we should be rock solid though sick
i'm just gonna blast this out i was like dude eric i was my first uh vlog was on uh
fucking georgio am amgigan i can never say his name i'm still not sure how to pronounce it after

(06:00):
your video the state the state of exception and read it i well i was i chat gpt the beats oh so i
mean essentially yes i did read it nothing is lost in translation there and it's definitely giving you
highly accurate so well something i'll take it you you were the one who told me about it uh when we
were hanging out in los angeles and uh i've been thinking about the concept ever since you said it

(06:23):
to me and i just can't stop thinking about it lately especially like with donald trump's like
move to federalize uh you know the washington dc police department police force well let's be fair
and this wasn't just ambigan's concept but he got it from our nazi friend carl schmidt because that's
we always got to come back to the nazis so right oh that's a fun time but yeah i'm actually i'm

(06:46):
reading the same nazi again on uh other esoteric political theory which has been really fun actually
it's always fun to read nazi literature you know it's always fun to explain to like liberal girls
in san francisco like why i'm reading nazis like it's it's a really great it's cool it's cool it's
not what you think no no it's like yeah he was a nazi like sure he defended the knight of long

(07:10):
knives but he's like not a bad dude he's not i uh i was putting together i was gonna put together
like a shelf of like just you know the most controversial books of all time and then i like
i was in the amazon cart and i was like mein conf and i was like i don't actually want to
build this shelf a book it's like i'm not gonna buy mine comp off of amazon like you can actually

(07:34):
do that this was like some years ago i don't know that you could still do it today i feel like you
should be able to do it though like on principle right yeah yeah well yeah that's like the whole
thing about the first amendment and like the freedom of speech thing that like people don't
like anymore because they're like oh no words are scary and they could like hurt me so i can't let
People say shit that they don't like, which, by the way, like shit going down in the UK.

(07:58):
Like how fucking wild.
Oh, it's crazy.
It's the most dystopic thing.
And then you talk to them and they're some of them know what's going on and they're despondent.
Like they're just so depressed about it that they can't even like move themselves to any meaningful action.
And then others will tell you with a straight face.
I've never heard of this.

(08:18):
What are you talking about?
And you're like, what do you mean?
What am I talking about?
And they're like, oh, well, yeah, I heard about the woman who was put in jail for three years and can't see her children because she was a horrible racist.
But, I mean, that just makes sense.
And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Like this lady, like, expressed an opinion that she, you know, was uncouth, whatever, whatever you're going to say about it.

(08:40):
But she deleted it.
Like, she went for a walk and deleted it an hour later.
So if you can't have a human moment and post it on the internet and then decide, you know what, that doesn't really reflect my values.
I'm going to delete it.
I mean that's the – it's the craziest.
You're living in a full-on totalitarian concentration camp.

(09:01):
Even so, she didn't like call – I know the case you're talking about but like she didn't like call explicitly for violence, did she or anything like that?
She said something in the effect of like burn them all or something.
Okay, so it could potentially be like –
In America, the call to violence has to be specific and credible and imminent.

(09:25):
There has to be an imminent threat of violence.
So if I say, yo, we should fucking kill all those Midwestern fucking D-bags who like Miller Lite, like Walker fucking douchebags.
Just murder them all.
And we should do it right now.
That's fine because it's so broad.
It's so broad that it doesn't matter.

(09:45):
But if I was like, you know, Walker lives at this address and he's you need to go kill him right now.
That's that's an illegal threat.
You know, yeah, that's I'm glad you're not making that threat.
By the way, well, I'll take you to see you in court, sir.
um the uh the the influencers that you posted or whatever the other day that like were bragging

(10:08):
with with probably like fake numbers because who has that much money like fiat in a bank account
but anyway yeah yeah like i had multiple people be like oh that's like walker and carl it's like
do you like really of like all the things like after all the things you've seen carl and i do
you think we'd be like the ones out there for some reason still using tiktok and then like
bragging about first of all like if i had 200 btc i would not need to shill affiliate links on this

(10:32):
podcast yeah a bunch of people thought that a bunch of people thought that was that was you
guys for some reason i think just because the dude is is a similar build to you but the girl
i thought that guy looked like a bitch honestly so like i'm kind of offended well you just both
you're both just like slender dudes you know i mean so like you know it's a compliment okay
yeah doesn't feel like i couldn't tell the difference because of how good looking he was

(10:55):
and i was like is that adonis thank you like i can't i can't tell that's that's exactly what i
was thinking too now it's it's it's wild in the uk though i was just uh i was talking to some uh
gals that were uh were visiting like this was like a month or two ago and i was asking them
like what do you like what do you think about the situation there and they're like obviously

(11:15):
like pretty uh pretty based and and they're we're basically like no it's it is as bad or worse than
than people say and like but to your point hoda like even in the uh uk like a lot of people just
like won't like won't talk about or aren't aware of it but i guess like we have the same sort of i
guess that's like that's perhaps a global condition where like not everyone's going to pay attention

(11:36):
to stuff but it's wild there because it seems so acute that it's like how could you not pay
attention to it it's like how could you not be aware yeah that's the whole sense that's a censorship
recursive thing it's like we can censor you bringing attention to it so like i'm pretty sure
that there have actually been like thousands of people that have been jailed for this at this point
in time but because you can't publicly speak about it in the uk nobody's aware about it so they're

(12:00):
like what do you mean this stuff is happening it's like oh it's because like we can now memory hole
everything because you can't actually talk about it yeah and this is the kind of first principle
shit that like i find bananas that like people can't like put together being like wait a minute
if they like can censor stuff doesn't that mean that we don't have access to like what the actual

(12:22):
information it look whoa maybe that's like not good i like being like you know there's like other
people who are like way fucking smarter than you or me who like thought about all this shit
like hundreds of years ago before like their brain could be rotted by tiktok so they could
really sit down and like think hard about shit and it turns out they like figured out like here

(12:42):
in the united states they're like you know it's like being able to like speak openly thing this
was like really important because like if we want to be like fuck the king that guy sucks like
that's kind of a big priority for us to be able to do that but i i don't know a lot of people can't
put this shit together and it's uh deeply deeply concerning something uh you know i think about
quite a bit is um you ever heard david foster wallace's uh this is water speech it's a really

(13:09):
good speech i would i would recommend everybody look it up and you know essentially the story is
that two young fish are swimming along and an older fish comes by and goes,
how's the water today, boys?
And the young fish turns to the other one and says, what the fuck is water?
And so it's like the water in David Foster Wallace's analogy is the dogma that pervades your life.

(13:30):
It's the cultural presuppositions that you've never thought about,
you've never had a meta-critique or analysis of.
You don't even know they're there because they're just so part of your world.
And for the British, I think not having free speech is actually baked deeply into their culture because they've never had free speech ever.

(13:51):
It's not like they lost it at some point.
And when – one example I've used with British friends over and over again when we're at dinner, I always bring this up and I say, sarcasm, British sarcasm, famous dry humor is a reaction to you guys not having free speech because you need to be able to say, no, I meant the opposite of what I said.
I was being sarcastic, right?

(14:13):
And they go, no, they were just British, mate, you know, fucking whatever.
And it's like, no, it's a constraint that came up.
Americans are funny too, but Americans are funny in a way where we can be bold and brash and outright about what we want to say, right?
Where you can't do that in England because you always need the trap door, the fallback of I was just taking the piss.

(14:37):
I was just being sarcastic.
I meant the opposite.
I actually meant it.
No, I meant it sincerely.
or I didn't mean it sincerely, whatever it is.
And that's something that's very difficult for British people to see clearly.
And in fact, like those in the audience who are British will be upset at me for saying this
because they usually are.
But I keep saying it repeatedly because it's important to poke at the invisible fence.

(14:57):
You know, in like Jurassic Park, the velociraptors are always testing the fences
and they never test the same spot twice.
It's important to be doing that in your own life and with your culture
and like the things that you take for granted.
Like, what is the water that is around you?
And we have our own in America.
So I'm not uniquely putting this on the Brits.
I'm just saying, like, that's an example from their culture and part of why this is going on with, you know, the draconian anti-speech stuff over there.

(15:23):
It's kind of interesting, the fence testing part about because, like, I think a lot of people have never, like, tried to touch the fence.
And so if you're like, that's a fence, they're like, what?
No, like, I'm I'm totally free.
I can go wherever I want.
So, like, go over there.
Touch it.
Yeah.
And they're like, well, I have no need to go over there.
Like, like in theory and practice, like, why don't you try that?

(15:43):
And it's kind of interesting because like, no, like, I don't, I don't want to.
I really like it right here.
And it's like, I think you might just be a pussy.
Yeah.
That's also one of the other like really despondent things I've realized is that like most people are completely cucked pussies.
But like, and this is like a quote from Julian Assange, but it's something like the realization that like courage is way more rare than intelligence.

(16:10):
Yeah.
Like when I finally got that, I was like, oh, shit.
Like this is super alarming because like you can have smart motherfuckers who are just limp dick pussies that will just bend over the moment that you tell them I'm going to fuck you.
And like this happened one way or another.
All right.
No fight.
Let's do this.
It's like, oh, wow.
That was alarming and easy.
I actually think smart.

(16:31):
I think smart people can be more susceptible to cowardice than people who aren't because, you know, if you can think about all the potential consequences from taking an action, then you're less likely to take that action.
Whereas somebody who's dumber would be like, I'm going to fucking do it and see what the fuck happens.

(16:52):
Right.
Yeah.
Smart people rationalize.
Like you can always rationalize your way out of something because you're like, well, because of X, Y and Z, this is why, of course, I shouldn't go and do this.
like yeah versus like the fuck it like well in addition to the fact that particularly like mid
bell curvers uh because i like think they're really smart uh like they're way more susceptible

(17:12):
to like the social heuristics that are around them where they go oh if i like say that outlandish
thing like i can get canceled whereas like your right bell curve and your left bell curve people
like i really like that the right bell curve people understand that the left bell curve people
is like their main ally and that they're like hey we'll like team up because like i'm smart enough
to get that like all of the reasoning of like why you're actually right no like huh that just feel

(17:35):
good like all right like well we should do well here together i think that might be my favorite
like my favorite meme format like if i had like and that's a tough that's a tough ask right like
if you had to pick one meme format that like that's the only meme format you can use like the
rest of your life like that's it you're locked in i think that might be it for me like that it
might be the bell curve meme because it just it hits on so many levels i don't know no it's do you

(18:01):
know how many people don't know what the bell curve do you know how many people don't know what the
bell curve meme is the average person the midwit on the bell curve has never heard of the bell curve
meme that's again back to the dogma that pervades your life they don't even know what the bell curve
meme is right whereas we all use i was talking with uh mason one of the young guys from the true

(18:23):
North podcast when I was up in Portland and he, we were talking, we were discussing Bitcoin
treasury companies. I was giving a take and he was like, I think you're mid-curving it, dude.
And I was like, wait, am I mid-curving? You know, and then we all do that to each other,
right? Like that's like our way to be like, Hey, you're, you're thinking like a normie,
you know, uh, they, the normies have never heard that because to exist in a state of meta analysis

(18:46):
about normiedom breaks it pops the bubble that is normiedom so you can't even think the word
normie when you're a normie that's the dog that pervades your life well or like nor normie isn't
like a pejorative to them they're like oh look thanks i don't really know of course i live in

(19:06):
the box i invest in my 401k it's right you know everything's great let me have it when i'm retired
I'm sorry I like Taylor Swift in football.
I'm sorry.
I love it.
That's crazy.
Cracking open a Miller latte.
Just doing it.
You catch the game last night?
It was sick.
It sure did.

(19:26):
I'm glad that our local sports team beat the other local sports team.
There was this group of young black millionaires,
and then they advanced the ball against the other group of young black millionaires,
and it was sick, dude.
I fucking creamed in my pants, bro.
It was sweet, though, because there were a couple of young white millionaires, too, and they seemed to be at the center of the formation.
It's really strange, too.
I don't know, man.

(19:46):
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
Hey, guys, like, is it fucked up that a bunch of white billionaires own all of the black millionaires that are proceeding to give each other brain damage for your entertainment?
It's cool now because they're well-paid.
Nah, bro.
That's cool.
That's not.
Shut up, dude.
That thought makes me uncomfortable.
I don't like that.
I'd like to turn off that.

(20:08):
No, thank you, sir.
I like the uncomfortable shifting when you like bring shit up to people like that.
And I'm like, you know, now I've obviously like pigeon myself into like Bitcoin guy land, which is infuriating because anytime it starts, it's always like, oh, you like crypto?
And I'm like, no, the fact that you know no difference between Bitcoin and crypto shows that you know absolutely nothing about either of them.

(20:29):
Yet I'm sure you have strong opinions about it.
And they're like, well, yeah, it's destroying the environment and all the water.
I'm like, yeah, that's exactly why they're developing fucking new infrastructure in rural AFCO where people have never had access to energy before and they could do it with Bitcoin mining.
Same fucking reason why the largest hydro plant in America was saved by Bitcoin mining.
That absolutely destroys the environment. Right.

(20:52):
But you know so much about how environmentalism is affected by electricity markets because you clearly have expertise in this. Right.
like with such strong opinions about how the electrical markets work like i'm sure that you
understand the difference between like base load and otherwise right and they're like
huh i was i was in a room yeah motherfucker i was in a room arguing arguing this exact thing

(21:13):
sorry we're at this point now a group of normies and uh you know i basically said i gave them this
long dissertation about flare gas mitigation and how it works and you know how bitcoin miners take
advantage of this and how you know they're contributing to you know lack of emissions
emissions in the atmosphere, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And the normie audience listened to this entire thing and was like,

(21:35):
yeah, but still, bro.
And it's, okay, man.
Why did I take the time to explain how things work to you?
I think it's like being a normie, if we're going to, you know,
it's not like a specific type of person, right?
It's not like if you live in the Midwest and your name is Karen
and you're 30 pounds overweight, you're a normie.
No, like that's not what it is.
Although like probably, you probably are a normie.

(21:57):
But it's a lack of – it's being fundamentally incurious.
That is what it is to be a normie.
It's having no ability to have a thought outside of a perceived box of approved thoughts and then not caring that you've never had an unapproved thought.

(22:18):
Just not caring at all and being like, that's fine.
Why would I need to have different thoughts?
These thoughts are great.
It's the water thing again.
Like it's not even a lack of care.
It's like, whoa, wait, hang on.
Like I can, I can think these things.
It's like, like, why don't you just try like taking on some of it, like as a thought experiment in itself.

(22:39):
Like one of the ones I find fascinating is asking people to steel man stuff.
And they're like, what?
And it's like, well, let's just like try on for a minute that like maybe instead of like orange man just being absolutely an evil controversy and a piece of shit.
that like maybe some people could possibly have some values that for a good reason they like him

(23:01):
and they're like you you like trump don't you and it's like no like i think he's a piece of shit too
but could you see how there could be reasons that someone could like him and they're like
can i can i think that and it's like yeah you can you can actually try on that thought

(23:22):
and not believe it's true and they're like no no and it's like yeah yeah go ahead
like think about it it's genuinely so wild like that like a huge swath of the population does not
have that ability at all like does not have the ability to put themselves in the shoes of another
in like a meaningful way,

(23:43):
in a way that actually would allow them
to think different thoughts
or like just quite literally think thoughts
that are not the ones that they've been programmed to think.
Like they literally can't even conceptualize.
And that's why it's like you wonder like,
oh, why is the political discourse as it is in America?
It's like, well, because literally most of the people
having this discourse are incapable
of even comprehending that the other side
may have valid reasons for why they believe what they believe.

(24:07):
Even if it's not saying what they believe
is right or wrong or anything.
It's just that they have reasons.
They didn't just come to these.
I mean, some of them are just programmed with them.
But there are also legitimate grievances, right?
Why do they have those grievances?
What reasons could there be for that?
Have you thought about that at all?
It's just most people just like, no, they're just bad.
They must just be evil.
They must just be bad people.
And if you're talking about communists, yes, that's a pretty good heuristic.

(24:29):
And this goes back to – I was thinking about this today actually before your vlog.
And I want to shout out to your vlog now that we're live on air.
Go watch Hodel's introductory vlog.
It's awesome. I liked the mouth part when you got really close in there too. That was nice.
I put the camera inside my mouth. Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. I can't tell if it's a big mouth or a
little camera neither. But anyway, but I was actually, I woke up this morning thinking,

(24:57):
I don't know why, but I woke up this morning just being like, it is fucked up that communists
get away with being communists in this day and age when like Nazism is so absolutely despised.
Now, I think Nazism is correctly despised. I think communism should be despised on that level and then to another degree because it has killed an order of magnitude more people. Right. It's something like what, depending on what that wasn't real communism, though.

(25:22):
yeah no yeah that was just a sparkling sparkling communism you know like it's it's only real
communism it's if it's from the you know communist region of yeah you're fucked to stan i don't know
um but like i was just thinking about that and you you talking i don't want to give away too much
your vlog because people should watch themselves but you talking about uh about nazis and stuff

(25:44):
and the holocaust it just made me think about and again guys you should watch hodl's vlog because
me saying this out of context sounds sounds bad but it's an i have a neo-nazi blog we praise the
hogs it's not at all what it sounds like my point being it it is just it is insane that like you can

(26:05):
as like a university professor as part of the intelligentsia you are totally it's totally
acceptable for you to be like yeah i'm a i'm a i'm a communist and i think uh you know these
communist ideas, I think these are valid. Or I think, you know, socialism, which is just a bridge
to communism is a good idea. When this is something that's killed over 100 million people, like
conservatively, oh, and you know, since it was, since was first started to be practiced, like,

(26:29):
that's insane that you can have that as your ideology. And that people are like, yeah, that's
actually a totally like, you're still socially acceptable as a member of our, you know, member
of our society. In fact, we would love to give you funding. Can we give you a grant, sir? Because
i think that the way you talk is just great and you've got like the zolron whatever his name is
mom in new york who's just yeah yeah just oh my god did you see the video with him in warren

(26:54):
where they're like they're laughing they're having just a good time and it's just like
you sick communist fucks like you're disgusting you should treat communists the way you would
treat a group of individuals who had gathered on the street corner outside your house and were
making elaborate plans for how to murder you and your family and then take all of your
belongings.

(27:15):
And you could hear them in earshot.
That's how you should treat you.
But by the way, back to the thing about like how people discern reality and this team sport
thing where politics are now like this side, that side, whatever.
I think that when you're young, you have a true false filter because you need to figure

(27:35):
out how the world operates.
And so you think to yourself, like, I see this with my children.
Like, is this true?
Is this not true?
Are ghosts real or are they not?
You know what I mean?
Like, I took my kids to Disneyland recently.
It's like, is this a real mouse?
This is a guy in a costume.
You know?
You have to figure – you have to run that filter when you're a kid.
But as you get older, a lot of people – it's back to the incurious part.

(27:58):
Like, they shut off that filter and then they replace that filter with an us-them filter.
And the reason they do it is because thinking via convention is very easy.
It's very easy to think in group because you're outsourcing that thinking and so it's no cost to you.
Whereas if you're going to spend all of your time thinking, like Eric Kaysen spends 99.99% of his time thinking and the other 0.01% jerking off, I assume.

(28:24):
I mean like you're being generous with the ratios there.
It's a lot of mental load.
Like it's very – pun intended.
It just it takes a lot of time.
And we all know as people who try to engage in thinking that it's extremely difficult and costly and it's painful and it hurts.

(28:44):
And like like the scientific process, you're always wrong.
So like the, you know, the normie mindset thing is like I feel like I'm constantly taking off my normie hats and then I take off another normie hat and another normie hat and another normie hat as these truths unveil themselves as I continue to search for greater and greater truths.
You know.
well it's funny that like we this kind of returns us all the way back to like socrates apology about

(29:07):
like look like i like i'm stupid like i don't i don't know much about the world or how it works
and like the more that i figure out like the dumber i feel particularly like i'm reading schmidt's
political romanticism right now it's phenomenal but like as i'm reading it i'm like this is really
hard to understand and i feel really dumb but also then like i go out in the world and i encounter

(29:30):
of these people who are like, particularly like politicians and investors, like they're just like,
I am fucking absolutely certain about this thing. Like I know how the world works. I'm like, you
don't. And I'm just like, God damn, like have that amount of hubris. Like I'm a little jealous. Like
I wish I could just like turn off thought and just like fucking bore forward. And the irony is,

(29:50):
is that like, it's that degree of stupidity that actually allows for them to perform so well.
whereas like if you've actually thought hard enough and long enough about stuff like there's
always this thing where it's like i could be pretty wrong so like i really gotta like
try to position myself and my feet on truth but yeah i i find a deeply shocking thing at how
confident people will be about how right they are uh and furthermore like that's kind of this

(30:16):
heuristic of like it actually shows how chicken shit and callous they are because like it's really
just about saying the shit that people want to hear as opposed to actually creating sincere
dialogue with other people. And like now that I live in the Bay Area, like in the bubble that is
liberalism, it's pretty interesting how often that like, because I obviously don't ascribe to

(30:37):
contemporary political theory. But so like, it really throws people for a loop when like, I don't
necessarily subscribe to their liberal beliefs, but I'm like, Oh, like, I'm an anarchist. And they
go, wait, hang on. I'm like, like, one of the things that like, I keep coming back to is that
Like, you know, obviously, like, like your body, your choice.
Absolutely.
So, like, when I want to do heroin, like, I really hope that you're not going to stop me and be like in solidarity.

(31:02):
And they're like, what?
And I'm like, yeah, like, if it's my body, my choice, like, we should be able to do whatever drugs you want, whenever we want.
And like, nobody should stop us.
Actually, like, we should probably get the state to like sponsor drug programs in different ways and like needle exchange and shit.
Because like, that's what we want the state to do.
Right.
And they're like, uh, yes.
i'm like furthermore like my body my choice like i should be like if i want to modify it with like

(31:25):
a grenade launcher as my arm like we should be able to do that no like hang on like i'm not
certain about that but for me like i just like them i like to try to like murky the water as
much as i can because like i don't know the right answer but i'm pretty sure that like how confident
you are that your answer is right like isn't true so like let's just murky this shit up and like
make it as confusing as possible.

(31:47):
I like to do a similar thing where I, I data dump as a two online person.
I like to data dump online meme culture onto normies in real life where I'll just, they'll
just be like you know how the weather And I be like Oh it great man Did you catch the thing between fuentes and carlson and and candace ellens and there a whole thing about like he a he a anti but like they like you know you might be cia and there like a whole thing here

(32:12):
and blah blah and uh the the normies are just like uh i don't know what you're talking about
well it's also threatening to realize like how much uh like i feel really lucky that like i'm
I'm like working at Presidio Bitcoin and like I'm surrounded by Bitcoiners, which is like this great heuristic filter for like pretty intelligent people.

(32:32):
But then I like go back and interact in normie land and I'm like, oh, shit, like we're like a few standard deviations out of the field of like what normal conversation can be had.
And it's just it's just really unfortunate because I realize like how much you really have to like water shit way down.
and so it's disturbing that like i keep repeatedly getting in the conversation where we have to like

(32:53):
begin it like okay you like don't know the difference between bitcoin and crypto but like
you're convinced i'm a crypto bro despite the fact that i tell you it's not and it's always
just fun i'm like i literally wrote a book about this because i got so fucking sick of explaining
this over and over and then they're like can i read the book i'm like yeah but it's gonna be a
little advanced for you so you know for the first time in my life i'm starting to understand the

(33:17):
French. You know, the French hate it when you try and speak their language. Like, let's just speak
your stupid language. Don't speak our language. Right. I'm having the same experience when people
ask me about Bitcoin stuff. It's like, I'd rather just not talk about it these days. Whereas like
all of us are going like deeper and deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. And we're like
egging each other on to go even deeper. And it's like you're thinking like a midwit. You're thinking

(33:40):
like a normie. Oh, I am. Oh, shit, I should go even deeper. What's the deeper? Like, how do I go
Whereas when you talk to your whoever in real life, even if they do have a piece of information, it's like a chimpanzee with a handgun where they're like, yeah, no, I know about warm wallets.
And you're like, okay, enough, enough.
Stop it.
You're just so cute.
You shot me with your bad piece of information.

(34:01):
The one that fascinates me is like, again, here we are at an all-time high where people had fucking listened on the last podcast that we did together.
They would have like made money.
but like no like we have to do this whole fucking cycle again and i'm just i'm just infuriated at
like at what price point do you like take me seriously like like how like where is it where

(34:21):
you stop and go never you know like maybe i'm just retarded and these guys actually know what's
better than me and like maybe i should try to listen to them but yeah it's never and like it's
infuriating and also like there's something quite poetic about it as well as that like
they're engaged in this form of life where they're like oh like i want to escape the slavery that is

(34:42):
my nine to five and like i wish i wasn't constantly fighting inflation that everything wasn't so
expensive like the whole shebang and it's like i have a very simple answer for you and they're like
no like what would you ever know about that and it's like well like i'm not in the slave camps
with you and like i can kind of do whatever the fuck i want and they're like well you got lucky

(35:05):
and it's like uh-huh so best of luck with you like i i'm gonna go enjoy my life like have fun
getting up at 6 30 to like drive through traffic to like get to the job that you fucking hate you
know this you know case and i think we're up like we're up maybe like 30 000 per coin since the last
time you told people they were fucking retards for not listening to you the time before that

(35:25):
from which we were like up i don't know how much enough like yeah so like your advice has continued
to prove sound and i hope that people will listen like it's really simple things to do
it's one of the most frustrating things because like back to the true false heuristic
one of the things i thought when i got into like investing in general even before bitcoin is i was

(35:47):
like okay well at least in you know investing world there's a scoreboard for how right i was
right so i was like at least people will see the scoreboard and be like there's a number behind how
how right this guy was. Nope. Nobody looks at the scoreboard. They don't care. And they don't,
they don't view you as right. What they do is they all just put their head in the sand
and pretend that first of all, you never told them what you said. Number one, you never told

(36:11):
me that. I never watched that podcast. I don't even know who Eric Case is, right? No. Yeah.
Eric Case, he's been my next door neighbor for 10 years, but I've never talked to him. I don't
even know that. I don't even know that man. Right. And then like, yeah, you're my brother,
but i've never spoken to you we don't you have nothing in common this is how the normie mind
it will do whatever it takes in order to protect itself from you know the truth from reality

(36:36):
essentially and uh we're just we're never gonna get it man no one's ever gonna come back and say
you were right never never i know and it's it's never happened i've finally accepted that'll never
happen it's funny because this reminds me like my dad and his friends had like an investing club for
a while and like they like you know at the beginning i'm obviously like oh like you guys
should buy bitcoin like that's obviously like the right answer i'm like oh no too written like all

(37:01):
the bullshit and it was great because like when they would like i'd kind of check in with them
every six months and be like oh hey god like let's see like the bitcoin investment i told you guys
about is up 250 what how are you guys doing like what's like oh you guys are up 15 whoa
like good job guys like i'll check back the next time come back and it's like okay so we're like

(37:25):
up 600 over here like you're 25 whoa guys like you're gonna retire a couple months early
like you guys factored in inflate oh you know you didn't factor in inflation
oh well shit on the cpi index you guys are actually down 12 um yeah what do i know like

(37:50):
i'm just a bitcoin guy right like i couldn't know anything about finance right like i don't even
have a 401k because like why would i want to have the thing that is going to ultimately lose 30% of
its value because the government's going to be stealing from you and then if you try to take
any money out early because there's a crisis that happens the government's going to steal half of it
But, you know, what could I know?
Anyway, so you guys have fun.

(38:13):
I don't know.
I just like it's just frustrating because I realize like I'm locked in a world with a bunch of idiots who believe that they're way smarter than me.
And I'm just finally got to the place where it's like, have fucking fun.
Yeah.
Like, you're definitely way smarter than me.
You know, you get up real early, go to that job that you really don't like.
You're stressed all the time.
You're doing all the normie stuff, trying to perform these other people's standards.
Like, sounds really great.

(38:34):
You sound like a really, really happy person.
So good luck.
And I'm going to be miserable over here with my magic internet money.
So it's like, it's like, it's like children.
It's like having children.
It's like when you tell your child, like, don't touch that.
And they're like, and then they get hurt.
And then you're like, what was going to happen?
This was all, you know?
Yeah.

(38:54):
I, you know, I hang out on like on Bitcoin clubhouse and we just like talk the most insane shit about like political theory or the markets.
And like, it's like constant, like dick jokes.
It's like a combination of like CNBC on LSD plus like Howard Stern plus like the Joe Rogan podcast or some shit.
Right.
And I have no way to contextualize this for normies.

(39:18):
So I just say it's my investor group.
I'm talking to my investor.
Wait.
So was it you that you was it you that posted about this like recently where you're like, yeah, we're still like hanging out on Clubhouse.
And I was like, I thought for some reason, I thought that Clubhouse like as an app had like shut down or people like like it is still.
No, no.
It's like Bitcoin's water cooler.

(39:40):
Like, okay, when you go on spaces, like Twitter spaces, it's horribly gay.
And the reason why –
It's so worst.
Just the worst.
It's like a conference where everybody is like, well, I wasn't done speaking.
Well, I wasn't done speaking.
It's like, how about – shut the fuck up.
None of us care about any of you or what you have to say.
It's like Bitcoin LinkedIn.
You know, like it's like –
It's like, oh, God.

(40:00):
So Clubhouse is like –
Clubhouse is like the bar at the conference where we would just be like,
Yeah, cool talk.
It was fucking – it sucked.
I hated it.
We have a different culture over there where we just like talk mad shit all the time.
It's very fun.
But honestly, it's my own special thing, so don't come over.
I don't want any of you guys.
I don't want to be over there.
I don't come.

(40:21):
I'm going to creeped on cold pastor.
Yeah, I'm not going to, dude.
In fact, I'm going to figure out a way to shut it down.
So you can't have nice things just so you know.
It's going to be – it's over for you.
I'm going to get the British government involved.
Should we talk about the suitification of Bitcoin?
Like, you know, the Twitter space is LinkedIn of like what's going on where everybody's like, oh, man, like I it's just a bunch of orange ties.

(40:44):
I hate the most is like somebody comes in pretty based with like some cool shit.
Like, I like this person.
I like what they're doing.
And then they're like, oh, like I got my Bitcoin treasury company now.
Like, like your number go up forever.
It's just like, damn it.
Like, why?
Like, this is why we can't have nice things.
No, no, you don't understand.

(41:07):
Like we own the Bitcoin and the number go up.
I'm like, guys, like there's so like, like you're like, you're at least holding your Bitcoin, right?
They're like, yeah, for sure.
Like we hold all of our Ibit.

(41:27):
I'm like, no, that's that's something else.
They're like, no, it's Bitcoin.
you're like no it's not good yes it is do you want to fight about this bro it's bitcoin i'm like
look it's a synthetic derivative of bitcoin which means that it's not bitcoin they're like
but you just said it's bitcoin i'm like god damn it we can't have this conversation you're too

(41:49):
fucking stupid you're stupid i'm like i own a bitcoin treasure wait how many bitcoin do you
have i'm like that's my fucking point i actually own bitcoin you don't you own this other thing
you just said that i was right i own the big coin god damn it okay you win you win bitcoin
goes up forever there's no problem with your investment scheme you're just gonna get rich

(42:12):
and see our world it just goes to 10 million dollars but everything's normal it's not like
this infects hyperinflation and your company's totally fine and it's not like the u.s government
shows up to steal all your fucking bitcoin because you obviously own the bitcoin right
yeah fine we can't have nice things so i i own and participate in a little in a little bit of

(42:36):
bitcoin treasury shit like i do do a little bit of bitcoin treasury shit i'm not gonna lie say i
don't i do but bitcoin treasury companies are literally you send me one bitcoin i send you two
back. That's literally what they are. And like, the nationalization risk for MSTR especially is

(42:57):
sky high. And in fact, sometimes I look at my retirement account and just think to myself,
am I stacking Bitcoin for the US government? Like, is that what I'm doing? Am I lending my capital
so that the US government can ultimately like nationalize this hoard of Bitcoin at some point
in the future and i think the answer might be yes you know but like is everybody with a 401k

(43:22):
basically like every like okay so like i have a 401k that i had from my uh my my times as a uh
accenture consultant you know for uh you know a little while and uh but and then i just stopped
contributing to one after that but then i found it again and threw what was in there into mstr um
And that did well because it turns out that my whatever Vanguard Target 55 retirement thing was like just not even keeping pace with inflation.

(43:48):
And I finally paid attention to this account again.
I was like, oh, that's a stupid thing to do.
But like I've always viewed retirement accounts as like, boy, that is like that is just the easiest honeypot for the U.S. government to siphon stuff like siphon bits off of when they need to.
And like you may say like, well, like, you know, they would never do that.
It's like, really?

(44:08):
They'd never do.
They would never change the rules because they made serious miscalculations as far as demographic shifts and our social security – Ponzi scheme is completely insolvent.
And I don't know.
Our national debt is completely unsustainable.
They would never change the rules?
Like really?
Yeah, they never would.

(44:29):
And it's like everything is totally fine.
but like so yeah my point being that like you might be stacking bitcoin for the u.s government
through a proxy but everybody is also just stacking you know stacking fiat for the u.s
government through that retirement account as well so like you know it's uh everyone's in the
same boat there but i'm curious oh go ahead i just want to comment on like i just love the

(44:52):
ultimate game theory that comes down to it it's like look if you're too retarded to like play out
a full game theory and that like you only got that far like congratulations like you lose and
like anybody who's actually smart enough to get what's going on is like oh shit like nationalization
is like a real risk at this point in time because like obviously like we can't ever pay off the debt

(45:12):
and obviously like like anybody who has like a full brain like does that process and they're like
oh like that's why like that's why bitcoin is what it is and how it exists and like i don't know
it's just really amazing to me that like people will get like to 90% and
they're just like full stop.
And it's like,
Hey,
hold up.
Like,
that's like not the full equation.
They're like,

(45:33):
but number go up.
I'm like,
I have more money.
Like life is incredible.
And it's like,
yeah,
but like,
what happens if the state decides that they want to take that?
And then they're just like,
that would never happen.
And it's like,
but what if it did?
And they're like,
but it won't.
And I'm like,
yeah,
but in a hypothetical situation,
if that were to happen,

(45:53):
what happens?
They're like, but it won't.
And I'm like, God fucking damn it.
I'm trying to do a hypothetical.
And they're like, look, like, I don't know about hypo Theo, whatever.
Like, I just know I'm making a bunch of money and you're not.
So who's right here?
And I'm like, fine, you fucking win.

(46:13):
Don't talk to me ever again.
There are some like, okay, so there's some positives with treasury companies, right?
I think one of the positives is that for years we've been telling people to buy Bitcoin and they just straight up fucking didn't.
And they never will.
And they never are going to.
And like every now once Bitcoin crossed 100K, essentially everybody realized that, oh, shit, Bitcoin's real.

(46:36):
It's going to happen.
It's going to million stars coin.
But for some reason, they all have the normie mental block where they believe that even though this story is happening, they're not going to be participants in the story.
OK.
But many of them have pensions.
Many of them have 401ks. Many of them are invested in the S&P 500, the NASDAQ, etc.
And, you know, from a passive indexation standpoint, Bitcoin is now making its way into the traditional markets.

(47:00):
And so they are going to get Bitcoin exposure.
They're not going to get actual Bitcoin. They're not going to have sovereign level Bitcoin.
They're not going to have the digital, you know, monetary nuclear weapon grade Bitcoin that you have.
But they're going to have exposure to Bitcoin's price appreciation.
OK, because they have exposure to Bitcoin's price appreciation, we get a broader alignment with them, these people that we've been trying to lead these horses to water and can't make them drink for now 15, 16 years.

(47:26):
We get broader alignment where they don't want to pull out the pitchforks and stab us to death and take all our shit.
So that's good.
The other thing that's happening is the SBR, right, which is potentially it's going to happen.
Lemus has a bill.
There's a way they can do it via executive order, but the legal theory is novel, blah, blah, blah.
And so like that's, again, a broader alignment of our interest with the state interest.

(47:51):
I know like Eric wants to have a fight with the state where they gulag him and he's like – he screams libertas and then they chop his head off.
But I would like for Eric to live.
And I think that our broad alignment between the public and the state can actually – we can create like a life raft for everyone.

(48:14):
And we can basically save everyone who lives around us in America at least.
We can't save the world, but we can save the other Americans.
And I think that's –
Oh, I can save the world.
I got a plan here.
Don't worry.
I think that that's something that –
It's Bitcoin communism.
I'm going to do that.
It's going to be great.
It will make our lives better if we have broader alignment with people.
And so that is the silver lining to the treasury companies and the nation states, et cetera.

(48:39):
But again, if you're giving up control of your keys, you're not operating a sovereign level.
And I don't know if you're going to be defensible for the times that are coming ahead because there are many, many paths here where things could go horribly wrong.
The path I'm outlining is a pretty good path where like the monetary changeover happens and we are able to backdoor exposure into almost every American's life.

(49:05):
I mean, so like a couple of things there.
Like, yeah, on the one hand, I'm like, I completely agree with you.
I also think like treasury companies, nation state adoption, all of that is was always going to be inevitable if Bitcoin is successful like that.
Of course, like you would have to be like literally retarded not to do that as a nation state or a company if Bitcoin is the, you know, is successful and is in the process of hyperbitcoinization.

(49:32):
So that's good.
That's going to happen.
Now, like whether or not that's good or bad, I agree with your point in alignment.
And it's kind of like that.
Forget when you said this, but basically, like, you know, like we're still Trojan horsing them and we just have to like shut up about it a little bit.
Like we just need it.
Like we're inside.
Like they brought us inside the gates.
It's just like everybody, like, just like stop arguing with each other.
Like, just shut the fuck up.

(49:53):
Like, we're in the horse right now.
Like, everyone's about to go to sleep.
Don't wake them up.
And I feel that.
What I'm, you know, I think like, and like, I have a little bit of exposure to like a couple of treasury companies.
Like, just for fun.
Like, that's my shit coining right now.
You know, it's like, oh, like, this is like, this is like my, you know, my Vegas, baby.
It's like, I'll take a couple of cuck bucks and gamble on these.

(50:17):
I've also, I think people love.
It's Weimar.
We live in Weimar.
Of course we would do that.
Let's go crazy.
We live in Weimar.
The Bitcoin treasury argument is becoming –
I said – well, I wanted to clarify.
My goal is to get more Bitcoin.
I'm probably going to fail.
But like it's a – like my goal is to trade that for more Bitcoin.
Now, I am like 99% sure going to fail, and that's why it's a de minimis amount for me.

(50:42):
As we are, they're like safe needles.
It's like, look, if you're going to do drugs, let's make sure that you're not going to get HIV.
It's harm reduction, shit corning.
Yeah.
I think what a lot of people are not acknowledging, obviously, because they're trying to sell equity,
is that the majority of the treasury companies are going to underperform Bitcoin over a couple of years.

(51:05):
Yes.
They might outperform Bitcoin for a month, but they're going to underperform Bitcoin as soon as that time horizon gets stretched.
even a little bit and like micro strategy i've been putting that in like a that's its own category
right like that's that's obviously a completely different player the rest of them i would say
maybe there's like there's going to be a few that outperform bitcoin over like a four-year cycle

(51:28):
i don't think it's going to be that many what about a 40-year cycle like that that's always
my question is like what's your time horizon because like yeah yeah you like make a bunch
of money but then the problem is is that like we get 6102 and now like your money is like this
surveilled thing that like has liquidity stops on it to where it's like yeah like i own like 30

(51:52):
billion dollars but the problem is like a carton of eggs is a million dollars and i'm only allowed
to withdraw 10 million dollars a month which to be clear 10 million dollars has the purchasing
power of like 50 bucks right now and like i it's it's super obvious to me that like this is the
play and it's going to work super well because it's like we're going to get cbdc's which is like
a private public partnership where it's like no no like the government could never ever be able to

(52:17):
have a cbdc because we have jp morgan and city bank coin and like yes they're like interoperable
because of all this really great technology and like we don't hate you at all we're like giving
you 503 a month oh but like you said the word nazi on the internet so actually you don't you
don't get any money unless like you're going to do your online re-education course which like

(52:40):
that's going to be some dystopian shit where it's like all right got to give us full access to like
root your computer and like now you need to be watched like oh you looked away because your
child was set on fire like you don't get any money now like we're going into like some some
really fucking crazy dark shit yeah and most people are just going to swallow that right up
and be like you know the government loves us and they gave us five hundred dollars i'm like didn't

(53:04):
did they put your grandpa into the re-education camp so that he wouldn't say those not-so-nice things about the brown people anymore?
It's like, yeah, but to be fair, grandpa was really racist.
Be like, yeah, all of our grandpas were really racist.
That's just kind of how the world worked at one point in time.
And while it wasn't okay, it was also nice for us to learn that, hey, these racist things aren't fair or kind to them.

(53:29):
And now we have a more fair and balanced view.
But now because we can't actually hear grandpa's racist things, people just go out into the forest and they actually get in Klu Klux Klan outfits and like think really horrible, terrible things because you can't just let them have the outlet to say this fucked up stuff in public and have other people be like, hey, that wasn't very nice or thoughtful of you.
Maybe there's brown people that are good too.

(53:51):
You know, like to me, that's the craziest thing is that like there doesn't seem to be any logical imperative where people like people legitimately just think like it's always bad that people say these things.
And it's like you realize that, like, in the 1960s, Nazis literally marched through Jewish neighborhoods of people that survived the Holocaust.
And the motherfucker who stood up and was like, these dudes, these dudes, these dudes, was a dude who survived the fucking Holocaust.

(54:15):
And he defended them in front of the fucking Supreme Court.
And he fucking won because they realized that it's important to actually have sincere and legitimate dialogue with opinions that people don't agree about, even when they're responsible and disgusting ideas.
And it just blows my fucking mind that somehow we've gotten to this absolute reductionist culture where people are so fucking cucked and limp dick that they can't even shove it in the hole to get anything done anymore.

(54:44):
It's fucking wild.
But, you know, welcome to fucking 2025, guys.
And I got to pee and get a beer.
Yeah, that's cool, man.
I'm just going to say that, you know, you're right on track on the rant train, Kaysen.
You know, you really – you're bringing the heat right now.
I'm into it.
Go, go, go.
I want to clarify for people.

(55:05):
Like, I'm like really happy in my life right now.
Like shit, shit's like going really well for me.
I'm not like an angry person.
I just, I'm, I'm just really frustrated.
Like we have Bitcoin.
It's successful.
The nation state can't stop us.
Like if you motherfuckers could actually think for yourselves instead of listening to these
fucking pieces of shit on MSNBC who fucking hate you and want to make sure that you stay

(55:26):
in the box, you could actually free yourself from this.
Like you could, the other one that blows my fucking mind is because people have no understanding of this at all.
And they're like, man, I'm poor.
And I hate that like the government's constantly stealing fucking money from me, despite that I'm poor.
And I have this like small business.
It's like, hey, you could like accept Bitcoin and you could, you could not tell the government.

(55:47):
You don't have, you don't have to pay them if you don't, you don't tell them.
And you're using something like pay joint.
Like you could, you could do that.
And you'd like save money.
And they're like, but if we keep the government from stealing our money, like who will build the roads?
Who will steal our money?
Who will steal our money?
Exactly.
Dude.

(56:08):
All right.
Another one speaking about stealing money and the system we're going into and what's coming and all that is Eric's right about the stable coins.
They're going to say it's not a CBDC, but it's going to be a CBDC.
It's just going to be controlled by an oligarchy of bankers like Jamie Dimon.

(56:29):
And there's also now this new push to – they've realized that you can expand U.S. hegemony with stable coins, right?
But there's another thing.
I think everybody gets that.
That's obvious.
But there's another thing that you can do as well, which is you can – okay, so every 10 years, give or take, eight or nine years, Global M2 expands by 2x, right?

(56:54):
I think – I'm pretty confident about this, that they're not going to be counting stable coins in the Global M2 metrics.
So if you go forward with this proliferation of new stables and then you run the same M2 inflation rate that you're used to, you could actually see a world where – let's imagine a world over the next 10 years where Bitcoin goes to, I don't know, $5 million or something like that.

(57:20):
Like it goes crazy high.
And stablecoins proliferate broadly and there's trillions of dollars of stablecoin usage out there in the broader world, right?
I think you might see a world in which GlobalM2 has risen 2x just like normal.
And when you check in on it, you go, okay, everything seems to be, you know, as it usually is.

(57:42):
But the stablecoin proliferation is like a surreptitious GlobalM2 expansion that actually ran GlobalM2 at something closer to like 10x or 5x, right?
And so I think that's the world that we're headed into here.
And, you know, again, it all comes – all the roads lead to Rome.
Like it all comes back to Bitcoin and it's like the best thing that you can possibly do is to have Bitcoin in order to protect yourself from what's coming.

(58:09):
But these new tools the government has access to like stable coins are going to allow them to do things that are just straight up evil.
And they're – like inflation is global taxation without representation because we're taxing every country and economy that's dollarized and we're taxing all euro dollar holders and we're taxing American dollar holders and basically everybody that has dollar exposure across the globe.

(58:36):
So this system that I'm describing is like extreme taxation without representation at a global level.
And I think that we're going to see that happen.
And so the best – again, the best way to protect yourself is to have Bitcoin.
But like I don't think the average person knows what's about to befall them.
And it goes back to this thing about like I wish I could shake them awake, but I can't.

(58:58):
And so maybe one of the best things to do is embed Bitcoin in the public markets, which is happening.
So I don't know.
Maybe they're going to be saved just by sheer dumb luck.
The market is efficient, right?
Like passive indexation always wins.
Maybe they'll be saved by that.
I don't know.
yeah i it's it's tricky right because like okay the state there's a lot to unpack there

(59:23):
um okay uh where to start like first of all one thing that i think is interesting like
case into your earlier point about like okay if bitcoin's at whatever super high millions you know
multi-million amount then you know like what is a million dollars worth you know etc etc
Like I see that, but I think Bitcoin also has so much of the existing like present day denominated global wealth to cannibalize first before like, yeah, it may be true that like later that when Bitcoin's at, I don't know, 50 million a coin that like, yeah, 50 million doesn't buy what it used to.

(59:57):
But like also the market is different at that point, right?
But like right now it's like we still have what, 10x to go before we cannibalize gold, right?
Like roughly 10x.
Yeah.
And so like that's – I feel like that's like a low bar.
That's like a low bar for Bitcoin recapitalizing the world.
I think it's 20x.

(01:00:17):
Is it 20x?
I think it's 20x for gold and I think it's 200x for real estate.
Okay.
And either way, Bitcoin is like $2 trillion and we've got $1,000 trillion in global wealth, like roughly, right?
So it's like we're so fucking early from that perspective that it's like, well, yeah, this thing's got so much room to run just in the existing fiat denominated system.

(01:00:42):
It's going to get obviously like they're going to debase like that.
We know that they're going to debase to your point, Hodel.
And like, you know, maybe having some passive exposure to like to MSTR or having I bet that you're passively exposed to or whatever.
You know, maybe it's Fidelity's Bitcoin ETF or whoever's Bitcoin ETF.
Like that's going to be great for like the average person who still is going to ignore Bitcoin for the next like ignore real spot Bitcoin for like the next 20 years still because they're just for whatever reason just not going to because you can lead a horse to water and you can beat it in the head repeatedly.

(01:01:15):
But you can't make that stupid son of a bitch drink, right?
But we're like we're just speed running the entire development of finance from the 15th century in like 50 years.
So like we're just 10x accelerating everything.
And so to me, like the like what what Saylor seems to be the champion of and he's pioneering is like we're going to see the corporatization of Bitcoin and making synthetic financial products.

(01:01:40):
And like the the real winner is the person who actually figures out, like, how do you create like a global debt market that is based on Bitcoin that truly actually has like synthetic free interest rates that like essentially you get like a conglomeration of like treasury companies that essentially like set like a Bitcoin LIBOR kind of rate thing.

(01:02:02):
And furthermore, like how do you get all the things like repo markets and swaps and other things that are like built on actual Bitcoin standard?
uh and like that thing like once you have that like now we can suck up the extra 200 trillion
dollars of like global debt markets like into that and it's a relatively smooth transition so like
at the end of the day like everything's good for bitcoin and so like yeah like a bunch of people

(01:02:26):
are gonna get absolutely hammer fucked when it comes to being 6102'd and like losing a ton of
their money but the hilarious thing is like the dudes who don't have that happen like their bitcoin
is going to be worth so much more in addition to like they're going to be able to do a bunch of
other shit with that and very similar to like uh like when like when the medici family essentially

(01:02:46):
discovered like oh like we can do this like double entry accounting thing and like figure out like
what the fuck is going on and then like build debt around it like it's just retarded amounts
of money that are so large that like you get to start getting people that are building things that
are actually good for humanity because like they just have so much money that's sort of like the
last thing that's left to do and it's kind of interesting that like uh when people start getting

(01:03:10):
really rich like it turns out that like you can like go play and like do all the things that you
want to and if you're not just like an absolute travesty piece of shit human you like do that for
a little bit and then you realize like oh like there's this giant hole in my heart where like
i want to actually do something like reasonable important for my children so like i'm gonna go do

(01:03:31):
that now because like I'm free to do that. And like people that don't like they will perpetually
suck to infinity. And like that's just what they do. And the most interesting and ironic thing is
because there's this value realignment that Bitcoiners on a whole tend to have because of
how and why they're investing in Bitcoin. They seem to get that much more than other people.
So like ultimately, again, everything is good for Bitcoin. This like ultimately aligns with

(01:03:55):
my own philosophical approach of that. Like. To me, all that Bitcoin really is, is like it's the
fruition of philosophy and the entirety of history coming together And like that why cryptography is at the bottom of it It not because like we like nerds that like fun math puzzles Like no there like actually like a 20th century
about communism where like 100 million people

(01:04:15):
are literally murdered for their property.
So like, it actually turns out that like owning property
is actually like within the sphere and theater of war itself.
And ergo, like protecting your property with cryptography
is really, really important
because otherwise people will just murder you
would take it as the 20th century told us yep do you think we have to fight another world war or are

(01:04:37):
we already in the midst of another world war like before we get to the end game like is that a is
that a is that a necessary part of what like what happens next or is there a way to avoid that
marshall mcclellan the father of information theory said that uh world war three is a
nonstop guerrilla information war with no division or distinction between civilian and military

(01:05:03):
participation that is what we live in right now it's happening you're in world war three this is
world war three you know yeah it's a it's a very clauswitzian thing that's also like the uh like
where's the delineation between politics and war at and like isn't politics just war by another
means right i'm like isn't that war something that's already being carried out and like isn't

(01:05:25):
Like it like that's that's essentially why and how we have this highly interdependent global system with like an Internet where like we're all in different places, hundreds of miles away from each other, able to do this.
And like that in and of itself is a feature of this territory.
And to me, like this is one of the mind boggling things I keep coming back to is that like the Internet itself obviously is like not a political in any way, shape or form.

(01:05:50):
But because of the sort of informational hyper war that we live with, then like people can't seem to like link the two together to be like, huh, like maybe this thing that like six billion people around the world are on and like interact with every day and have more importance than the nation state itself.
Like maybe we could like use this thing to like make like a new form of the political like capital T, capital P, like very similar to the American ideology of like, hey, like it turns out like maybe we should get to like vote on how and why like our system of governance works.

(01:06:22):
And like maybe there should be strong parameters and delineations of like how powerful the nation state could be.
And that's one of the things I have like a massive boner about Noster and Bitcoin and all these things is that like we're no longer asking for permission.
We're just like building these tools that like you fundamentally can't violate in any way.
So like we can go say whatever the fuck we want on Noster and like you can't censor me.

(01:06:45):
Like if I want to send money to like Palestinian dissidents right now, like I can just fucking do that.
like if i would like to like help smuggle people out of north korea i can like send the money off
to the people in china to help me do that and like you can't fucking stop me oh you don't like it
like too bad like oh you'd like a state of emergency to violate me you can't unlike that

(01:07:06):
people have very little appreciation for how radically removed that is from contemporary
politics i have a question for both well go ahead because i'm going to slightly diverge
into a tangent of what Eric said.
I was just going to say that
lately I've been
thinking a lot about
the Gen Z

(01:07:27):
political sphere.
And the Gen Z
political sphere, for those who don't keep
track of it, is
what I would describe as batshit
insane. So the
Gen Z's are
either in this
far-right sort of
Nick Fuentes thing, anti-Semitic, like old school racism, like, you know, this sort of direction.

(01:07:53):
Or they're in the opposite.
Luigi Mangione is a saint, you know, communist populism.
And there's a growing desire for violence on both sides.
And I think that the reasons for this are, you know, we could spend an entire podcast talking about them.

(01:08:15):
But what's interesting from our perspective, I think, as Bitcoiners is that Bitcoin is going to do what it's going to do.
It's going to go to millions of dollars a coin.
We're going to be the capital of the new world order.
And as the capital stack, we sit on a meta layer above the political stack and we get to pick and choose winners.
So I think it's important to keep abreast of what's going on in the political sphere so that you can know what type of things you might want to back and what type of things you would like to steer clear of, right?

(01:08:51):
I think that's the thing that Bitcoiners need to think about more and more.
Right now, we're sort of single-issue voters.
like we came to the donald trump administration with just like we like bitcoin and then donald
trump was like you like bitcoin buy my shit coin trump coin bitch and we were like okay whatever
like that's fine as long as we just just leave us alone please for the love of god um and so you

(01:09:15):
know but we're like um you ever see the incredibles where like the baby jack jack has like incredible
powers but he can't control them we are a super powerful political baby we're like we just rose up
on this first first go round we were like oh shit we can just laser everybody in the room
like everyone's dead now uh we win right like i think i think they do have these dead bodies though

(01:09:41):
as we go as we go forward we're going to like be able to flesh out our full potential as a
political entity on a global stage and say, what is the global reordering, right? What does it
actually look like? What's acceptable in the political economy? What's not? What are the
types of projects we're gearing towards? What are we not gearing towards? And I'm not saying that we

(01:10:04):
get to be like the sole arbiters of this sort of thing as some sort of robber barons of the new
digital age. But I'm saying that like, you know, Bitcoin is a unique phenomenon in that it made a
bunch of culture warriors rich. And we are people that care about the culture war. And we actually
care about the structure and shape of our society. And we found something that has a better structure.

(01:10:25):
And, you know, it's like Eric was saying, like, the reason we have buy-in or alignment with each
other is because the how and why of why we came to Bitcoin. Well, the how and why of why we all
came to Bitcoin is the same thing. It's institutional betrayal. At some point or another,
we trusted an institution and got totally ass reamed because of that choice. And that shared
trust of betrayal and trauma is the thing that brought us all to Bitcoin. And so like, you know,

(01:10:50):
essentially everybody under nobody under 40 believes in the mainstream political institutions
anymore. Nobody believes in them. Okay. And so that lets you know that they're going to fall.
And like in a forest, when a tree falls, it's already dead. It just it keeps its form and
structure while it's in decay. Right. So like, some of these institutions have already died.

(01:11:11):
They just haven't fully disintegrated into the ground yet.
And so you have a bunch of people in the political economy who are racing to occupy the husk of the fallen tree so that they can inherit the ash pile and they can parasitically pilot these old dead institutions.
And the Bitcoin ethos is fuck that.

(01:11:32):
Let's build the new institutions.
Let's build the new world order.
I don't want access to your elite society.
This isn't an elite revolution where I'm asking you to be part of your club.
I don't want to be in your club. I'm never going to be in your fucking club. I wouldn't join any club that would have somebody like me as a member. OK, so like we have to build our own things and these things have to work and be reorienting for a new global order that's going to emerge in the crypto world that we're building. Right. And so like I think it's very important that you remember that and you think about that as a Bitcoiner and a capital allocator because Eric's right.

(01:12:09):
Like the Bitcoin story is going to go boom, rocket ship, block by rocket ship.
It's going straight up into the right.
OK, and, you know, all your dreams are going to come true.
And then what?
And then what?
What the fuck are you going to do after you have a Lambo and a mansion?
What do you do next?
Spend a lot more time thinking about that because Lambos and mansions come and go.

(01:12:31):
And by the way, like they're nothing.
It's all nothing.
It just means nothing.
Like you're flying first class.
You're drinking champagne.
You're in a Lamborghini. It means fucking nothing.
There's no difference between drinking Highlights and sitting in the back of a Camry and flying Southwest.
It doesn't matter. None of that shit matters.
The thing that matters is the world we build, the world we leave behind.

(01:12:52):
Bitcoin's a thousand-year system.
We are going to be – we're the new capital allocators of that world.
And we're going to be leaving large amounts of Bitcoin and hopefully new ideas and new systems to the people that come after us.
it's interesting that you because to me like it's not even uh like a cultural it's like culture and
technology are uh like dynamically feeding back into each other in uh like a symbiotic relationship

(01:13:17):
because like we're the culture that we've got is explicitly because of the technology and same
thing with the form of politics that will create it's explicitly because of technology and like
that to me this is why this is all like part of a general chain of the historicity of man and like
the true history as it was because like it turns out that like we created this nation state thing

(01:13:38):
that is part of human history and it turns out that like the way that the forms of legalism works
was like explicitly through violence and the way that it's untavered itself since the since the end
of world war ii is that like now it's this gigantic maniacal thing that believes it owns all people
everything everywhere forever and the simple standpoint of saying like yo like i don't want

(01:13:59):
to participate in that like the thing like lasers in on you know like oh like you're like an enemy
of me like i must destroy you because like i can't have power over you and it turns out that like
that function inherently breaks in the digital paradigm where we have cryptography like you you
you can't do anything about it like if i've encrypted something like you you can't like be

(01:14:20):
like well state of emergent like backdoor exception haha like doesn't work that way it's
just a feature of how fucking math works.
And I think because of the way that we've came to understand that
and what cypherpunkism is, is like getting culturally that like,
that's part of the world paradigm that we have, you know?
And so I think as this continues to develop, like,

(01:14:43):
because more and more people seem to understand that and get it.
And like having watched this happen for more than a decade,
it's been really interesting to like, in the beginning, it's like,
oh, like I'm like a fucking insane person.
And now I meet somebody like Jesse and I'm like, oh, like another insane person, like, whoa.
And now it's like, hey, now there's like eight of us and 16 and 32.
Like, now there's a fuck ton of us and we all sort of get the same thing and we also get the same pathway.

(01:15:08):
But even more importantly, is that like that contrasted against the dark nihilism of like what it means to be a slave and fiat society versus like we have a form of empowerment.
Like I no longer want to tell you what to do.
Like, I want to welcome you into freedom and liberation. And that speaks to people in a radically different way than anything else. And I honestly think like the greatest challenge that's going to come about is just getting people to actually do the work and think for themselves, which I don't think will ever win. Like, I think we'll always be a minority. And that's one of the reasons that like, I've had people very pedantically push me. They're like, you have to do as much as you can to educate the masses about this as possible.

(01:15:49):
And I always go back to being like, look, there's like tons of people like Walker who do a really great job with that.
Like, that's not my shtick.
Like, my shtick is for the people that are already deeper is to like shove them deeper into that and have them get that.
Like, it's not just number go up.
It's not just getting rich.
It's not just implementing these new forms that like make people freer and give us like libertarianism.

(01:16:11):
Like this is about exploding the entire paradigm that we would call politics and borders and nation states to like implement something radically different and new in the same way that like in the 1730s, if you're like, hey, like maybe this king is bullshit.
And like maybe we should all like figure out a new way to like create politics.
People be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

(01:16:33):
Like how would that even work in any meaningful sense?
But like this is where we're at.
and uh yeah like today versus maybe 10 years ago like i feel so much more compelled and inspired
that like we are going to win the big question now is is like on what time span is that going to be

(01:16:53):
who are going to be the people that implement it and like how is this going to manifest itself yeah
i want to i want to ask you guys because so this uh this feeds into what both of you had said
earlier but just like thinking of this idea of like what is the what is the structure that is

(01:17:14):
to come like and what part do bitcoiners play at play in it as these new capital allocators with a
great amount of economic energy and like a completely different set of priorities and a
completely different worldview than the pre-existing structure creators like do you i'm curious maybe
case in first if like some of what you were describing earlier is like kind of similar to

(01:17:36):
like bellagio's thesis of like the network state but also like the network state is basically just
plagiarizing snow crash um neil stevenson's not like it is like that it's basically you're just
describing like bellagio's all the respect to him but he's just describing snow crash like that's
i like bellagio a lot like i haven't found anything extraordinarily original i've found

(01:17:56):
high amounts of that exact same thing it's so i guess my question is do we go towards a snow crash
future, but it's like a little bit less dystopian than snow crash or like, how do you, how, like,
how do you actually see that shaking out? Like, is there kind of the disintegration of the nation
state as it exists today in a fragmentation into very, very small nation states and corporate,

(01:18:19):
you know, state as a service providers, or like, how do you actually see, like, what does that
actually look like? Or, or does the existing paradigm just kind of can continue and continue
and continue and just like we kind of just kick that can down the road despite bitcoin existing
despite the fragmentation that we see i mean again it's like all time scale so like i i definitely

(01:18:42):
think that like the the nation state as an entity on a whole is dead because of the way that like it
fundamentally relies on fiat and like fiat is also fundamentally dead because of how that functions
so like there's like a number of different possibilities that we have and i actually
think like the one that's going to be the most interesting is like, I'm, I'm a big fan of like
the great man of history thesis of that, like, I think somebody will actually rise up at some

(01:19:05):
point in time and realize that like, attaching ourselves to Bitcoin as this thing that we can
use to essentially ram a new form of the political down the throats of everybody else. And like,
you, you don't have to agree with it. And again, like, this is where we start getting into my weird
fourth political theory stuff about like, I, and again, like returning to like, at the deepest
levels, I think Bitcoin is totally a form of communism. I think it's just like that form of

(01:19:29):
communism is legitimate insofar that it's the deepest form of scientific socialism that there
is and that Bitcoin is the form of IE socialism that we've chosen, that we've just chosen the
social sciences that we should use cryptography and game theory and all this technology in order
to implement what we believe is the most fair and just and magnanimous society for man. We're just

(01:19:54):
doing it with this other thing and this goes into a political theory of that like communism and
anarchism were like a single movement up until marx presented the communist manifesto and the
idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat and bakun was like yo like the nation state like like
the state's the thing that we can't use like go fuck yourself and marx was like fine we'll like

(01:20:15):
use the state and like we'll make communism because also to be clear the idea of communism
is a stateless society.
Like it's not to get some gigantic rogue thing
that has power over everything.
It's to make sure that there is no more classes.
And like Bitcoin, literally because of how it anonymizes
everything vis-a-vis cryptography,
it literally makes a classless structure.

(01:20:36):
So like I actually think that like that's really important.
And also like it drives me fucking crazy
that no liberals have actually attached onto this
and like done an applied thoughtful thing with Marxism.
me and ben ark have had a great some really great conversations about like how we should just like
spend a month diving in to like do a marxist analysis of bitcoin to essentially explain

(01:20:57):
how it implements communism vis-a-vis a anarchist lens but that's like a bunch of fucking work and
effort that like i'm not necessarily interested in um like i like the shtick that i'm on right now
um it's a good yeah and also like that's why we're building sort of what we are at voras because
like we we believe that the only way to get to this place is to like actually have like your

(01:21:19):
like your revolution in a box that like is this sovereign server that like has all these
cryptographic primers that can't be broken whether or not that works i don't know um but also like
in this grand paradigm i still think america's like the winner that takes all but i think the
difference is is that like we need some sort of radical and i don't even want to call a third

(01:21:41):
party. But like, again, I returned to the Article five argument of that, like, we need to essentially
use states to fuck up the federal government and like change the Constitution with Article five.
And then we get a totally different political structure that can actually serve a revolutionary
agenda around the world. Because most nation state entities have a larger federal thing with
states underneath it. And so if you can radicalize states to fight their own federal government,

(01:22:05):
and then create a solidarity that happens horizontally globally, like now we're cooking
with gas and we got some some fun shit in the line and i we need to we need to have another
podcast where we just do a deconstruction of uh of we well you know we do we we try real
communism this time we try real communism with bitcoin this because this time real communism

(01:22:29):
might work not perhaps not marxist communism but yeah well anarcho-communism yes yes and and you
Just so you know, earlier when I said that communists were just as bad or worse than Nazis, I wasn't talking about you, Kacen.
I just want you to know.
That's fine.
Like, communists are just as evil as Nazis because both of them are – because same thing, like national socialism as the Nazis imagined it is not a functional political system.

(01:23:01):
Right.
Like these are all just like a bunch of fancy words that we use to like give a specific class of people power to like murder and hurt other people.
Turns out that like with cryptography, one, because it's digital, two, because of how it anonymizes things, and three, because of the protections that it gives.
Like it's like non-functional in that theater.
And so, again, this is one of the things I've been working on is with the fourth political theory because like to be clear, like the current global world order that we exist within is all neoliberal.

(01:23:30):
Like whether it's North Korea or China or Iran or the United States, like it's all part of a giant neoliberal world order.
And it's really important to understand, like neoliberalism is what liberalism want, like has stated it is.
But it's inherently a fucking lie.
It's like telling you that because it's just like a thieving, maniacal, individualistic thing where you have like a collection of selfish people that all just want to make money.

(01:23:59):
And that's the final objective. And like, it's impossible for it ever to tell the truth.
Because like, that's the thing that it's incapable of, like, it can't tell truth like that.
That's a sort of linchpin. And so that means that like, if all prior political theories are dead,
let's like pick and choose what we like from all of them, which to me, that's part of Bitcoin is
that like, it's taking the most extreme parts of communism, the most extreme parts of fascism,

(01:24:21):
and synthesizes them in order to make the most extreme form of liberalism that's ever existed.
And that like all of these things amalgamated together, like is essentially Bitcoin in the exact same way. Like Bitcoin is anarcho-capitalism, which like that was like a misnomer and like contradictory up until the existence of Bitcoin.

(01:24:43):
There was no way to have a money that was not tied to the nation state before Bitcoin.
It's just what Satoshi created was so incredible, innovative and original that like it actualized that, which to me, this is also what unwinds and unpacks the entire historicity of man, its relationship to war, violence and the law and how what Bitcoin is like essentially ends all of those things at once.

(01:25:08):
Fuck yeah, man.
Has real capitalism ever been tried?
A long time ago.
A long time ago.
Yeah.
And like it's very different because like the moment that we had the implementation of the nation state itself, like that sort of ended.
And so like that's again why crypto sovereignty sort of starts with a reading of Hobbes is because Hobbes is really representative of like the first implementation of what we could call statism.

(01:25:34):
And it's not to say that like monarchism had a strange relationship to it, but it was only once gold got fully appropriated as this object that was been backed by fiat monies.
And like that was tried a bunch of times in history.
And like I'm sure you're aware of like when the Chinese tried it in the 12th century.
Yeah, and like essentially they like tried to make fiat money.

(01:25:56):
It totally failed.
And then even more interesting is that like after it failed, they're like, oh, the most brutal and barbaric sort of forms of torture need to be carried out on anybody that issues paper money.
It was stuff like we got to crush their balls and rip their fingers off and like rip their eyes out and shit.
It was not friendly.
Yeah.
Moderate even.
Truly.

(01:26:16):
You know, they were I think they were running the money there.
Now, man, it's going to be really fascinating to kind of see.
like I feel like we're at this really like I'm very grateful to be alive at this moment in in
space and time because it feels like like it's it's somewhat surreal like it's also not it's
very real like I'm I'm I'm pretty sure like you know this all feels pretty real but like it's

(01:26:41):
genuinely wild that we get to be here to witness this transition and and I can't imagine how dark
and depressing things would be if Bitcoin didn't exist because I don't know that I would have a
lot of hope for what comes next and i think things are going to get really really messed up and i've
said this before and eventually i'll formalize it into a a nice thesis that i'll that i'll write in

(01:27:04):
a piece and i'll publish on substack uh but until then i'll just i'll just spout it but i think we're
at this like we have this moment of cyclical convergence that is made all the more ferocious
by bitcoin so we've got like obviously like the fourth turning like everybody knows about the
fourth turning right and that's like supposed to be happening you know like the end of that turning
is like in the 20, 20, 30 range.
But you've also got like the,

(01:27:24):
I don't know if you're familiar
with like the contrattative waves
or contrattative cycles.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
The Russians killed him
because he basically showed that like,
well, it turns out capitalism
just like kind of like
does this free market thing
and then like it works
and it actually works out better
than like communism
and state controlled economies.
And so they killed him.
And then his theories emerged later.

(01:27:46):
And then we've also got like,
you know, the long-term debt cycles
that Ray Dalio talks about.
And then you've got like the fiat currency cycles and you've got – we can get into like solar cycles as well here if you want to get in tectonic cycles.
There's like all – it feels like there is –
And then there's the singularity is near rapidly approaching.

(01:28:06):
While the singularity – like while we have like –
Call a yuga cycle.
Like there are so many fucking cycles.
Mayan calendar.
Did the world end in 2012?
Like did it?
It might have.
I don't know.
Maybe because shit is getting wild.
What happened in 2012 is Bitcoin actually achieved full decentralization and it couldn't be stopped.
There you go.
That was when.
Max Kaiser said it became sentient at block 300,000.

(01:28:28):
So that would probably line up.
We should check.
Somebody should.
How dark do you think things get in the near term versus like I think we're all the opinion that things will get better in the long term.
How dark do you think things get?
Not to be a downer, but like how dark?
I'll take this one.
And so, I mean, my heuristic here for a while and still has been that both political sides in America are in what I call the race to Hitler.

(01:28:56):
Right. And, you know, essentially that you have to do a Hitler because you think the other side is going to do a Hitler.
So you got to put in your own Hitler before they do a Hitler. Right.
And that's sort of where we're at. And when you look at like a lot of the extreme political beliefs coming out of younger people,
people are in a win or die predicament.

(01:29:17):
That's how extreme the politics have gotten.
So it's not this sort of thing where,
you know, oh yeah, well,
you know, Bob's a Democrat,
but he's a good guy.
We have Bruce, you know,
every now and then, whatever.
It's not like that anymore.
Like there's this thin veneer of trade
keeping our civilization together.
So the economy is the only thing

(01:29:38):
keeping us together.
Democrats and Republicans
are living in entirely different spheres.
where they actually despise each other and believe that the other one has nothing but malintent in their heart for them and their country, right?
And so when the thin veneer of trade goes away, when there is some sort of a crisis, monetary crisis, I don't think we're in for anything good.

(01:30:04):
I think we're in for, you know, a Caesar.
I think we're in for a Hitler.
I think we're in for a Stalin.
I don't know what the flavoring of authoritarian ship is or totalitarianism is, but I think we get an American totalitarian.
Now, the benevolent version is a Caesar and, you know, the malevolent versions are Stalin or Hitler or whatever.

(01:30:27):
But like it seems that fascism, communism in some form is desperate to be tried in America and that younger people don't believe in the political systems or the institutions that they're being left.
And so they're going to jettison them. And in many cases, like I said, they're already dead. So this idea of like what comes next, American fascism or American anarchy, I think you get both potentially simultaneously.

(01:30:54):
and the winning move if you're you know an american is sort of to make it through make it
through relatively unscathed like you won't be able to turn the the volume to zero but maybe you
can turn it to five if you you know guard your time attention energy well and are in a physical

(01:31:15):
space that allows you to do so meaning you got to move to montana and turn off your phone like that's
That's the simple version of the story.
So, listen, I don't want to prognosticate any of this.
These are things I don't want to say.
These are things I think and think.
I don't want to say these out loud.
But I'm saying them out loud because maybe somebody can hear them and figure out, like,

(01:31:38):
ah, shit, Hoddle might actually be right, and this might actually happen,
and I should actually take steps to protect myself from what's coming.
Because it just doesn't seem like anything good is coming, man.
And when you talk about all the cycles unfolding, I mean, the debt cycle that Ray Dalio talks about is a big one.
Like we are in the unwind of the debt cycle and in the unwind of the debt cycle, like, you know, politics gets hyper partisan and then people do violence against each other.

(01:32:06):
Like that's what happens.
So long term, medium long term, like Eric's idea of what I'm going to call the Mr. Potato Head political economy where we take a little piece of communism and a little piece of fascism and a little piece of anarchism and we stick them all together on a potato head that looks like Greg Zash.

(01:32:26):
Shout out, Greg Zag.
I think that is preferred and that is the world that we should strive to create as Bitcoiners where we don't join the chaos.
It's like back to the thing I was talking about, about us being capital allocators.
Like do your best not to join in on the chaos of the day.
Do your best to make it through unscathed and to be able to pick up the pieces, you know, when everything is ready to be rebuilt.

(01:32:54):
Like we're not really in a rebuilding time.
We're kind of in a time where people are tearing things down.
But there will be, you know, we will come out on the other side.
Like the world never ends.
Every generation thinks the world is going to end because they're going to die.
The boomers think that now.
When you talk to boomers, you get a lot of doomerism coming out of them because their lives are ending.
10, 15 years from now, the world is over for them.

(01:33:14):
Like it all goes black.
And then, you know, you probably go to hell, most of you.
I'm just kidding.
I'm not.
But like it's not – I fucking hate you, boomers.
Anyway, nothing is permanent.
Everything is temporary.
Everything is cyclical.

(01:33:35):
Everything transforms.
And like Eric said, the neoliberal world order, which basically is a cover story for the largest theft ever known to mankind.
They're stealing from every human being on earth every time they hit the print button on the fiat central bank computer.
that is coming to an end because people just simply can't stand it anymore.

(01:34:00):
It has reached its inevitable conclusion or it's very near its inevitable end
state.
And I just don't think it's going to go on for that much longer,
you know,
especially once the boomers are gone because they're the only ones who are
deeply in love with it.
Everybody else is like,
fuck it.
Who needs it?
You know,
I forgot a cycle guys.
I just have to say also Polybius is an a cyclosis.

(01:34:21):
We're nearing the aglocracy stage,
which is a fancy word for mob rule which comes after democracy so sorry i just i needed to throw
case and go ahead but i needed to throw the other cycle in there that i forgot shout out to polybius
you've been dead for a few thousand years but you're a homie good good homie um i mean there's
like a few distinct outcomes that we get uh one is like essentially like extreme right-wingism

(01:34:45):
which like manifests as like a form of nazism and uh like reactionary hitlerism which like there's
there's like a pretty good opportunity for that uh same thing like we can have highly reactionary
left-wingism uh i remember like a decade ago when i was like tripping my fucking face off at burning
man i had this like whole vision of uh like a form of essentially like youth communism where it's

(01:35:08):
like essentially like everyone under 30 gets to like select a house they want and just like kill
the boomers that are in that like totally legitimate like you just get to murder those
people and take their shit yeah like fuck them like they contribute to the fact that you don't
get a home so pick the one out you like and fucking kill the family that lives there like
totally kosher red guard's gonna protect you it's great um so like those are two extremely dark

(01:35:30):
outcomes uh another one is like we get what we have today right now but essentially like the
elites that are like part of and it's kind of interesting because like in this there's like a
very interesting sort of civil war that's going on between like teal palantir network and like
some of like, and it's like the new tech money
versus like the old, like inflationary oligopolism money.

(01:35:55):
So like they're in their own little war to teal Palantirism,
like, like wins that war if they do that.
Or there's actually like a third way that can be like a,
like a pretty interesting like middle of the road orange party Bitcoin or thing But it means like we have to actually get our shit together organized in a meaningful way i don know if i want to do that that like

(01:36:16):
a lot of time and effort and energy and there's like a lot you guys would have to run you're top
of the ticket come on right well it's not even running it's like it's like maybe doing that as
like a lampoonie kind of thing but it's actually like building out like a new political movement
that's like look like owning bitcoin is politics now like when yeah like one of the things i love
doing in San Francisco is when people are like, oh, like, how do you vote? I'm like, I don't vote.

(01:36:38):
Like, you actually believe that makes a difference? Like, how could you not vote? I'm like, please
tell me who I vote for that doesn't murder the brown people. Like, please tell me, like, is it
like neither the blue or red people won't kill the brown people? Like, I thought you were liberal
and like gave a shit about the brown people. But like, you elect people that murder the brown
people too? Like, oh my God. And they're like, well, don't you care about climate change?

(01:37:02):
and i'm like well yeah and like that's explicitly why i won't vote is because neither of them like
and the u.s war machine which like contributes the most to carbon in the world and like it's
creating the greatest amount of climate change like don't you love the environment so like why
are you voting for people that continue to give money to the war machine that's really weird i
thought you cared about people huh um called the petrodollar petra it's right there in the name

(01:37:28):
see like come on guys you gotta get this i'm afraid the truth is that like bitcoiners actually
have to get our shit together and like do that because i don't see there being any other class
and the other thing that's way more important that like i always try to point out to people
that is like very inflammatory and they don't like is that like i am inherently freer than like you
are because like i don't rely on my bank account for money and you do like ergo like there's somebody

(01:37:53):
that can be like, you can't have your money now. And there isn't somebody that does that to me.
So like, I can say inflammatory stuff that like, Donald Trump has obviously raped children on Epstein
Island, which is why the Epstein files weren't released, because like, he likes to fuck underage
girls. Like, that's true. And like, to be fair, though, he's just maintaining political tradition

(01:38:15):
of the presidency. You know, like, we all know, going all the way back to Clinton, that like,
if you're going to be president of the United States, you have to rape underage children,
Like that's just part of the game.
Sorry, guys.
This is getting banned from YouTube so fast.
That's always the call.
I know.
You know, and like that's always why I come back to people being like, look, like I'm sorry that you thought Trump was the Messiah.

(01:38:38):
Like if the Messiah is raping little children, I'm not sure how much I want to be saved by them.
But that's something we should think about.
There's my poll quote right there for the episode.
That's going to be great.
so like it's really kind of a question for us
and like again like Bitcoiners are sort of the reigning champions
irregardless of the 21st century

(01:39:00):
which also it's kind of ironic that's the 21st century
where we have these 21 million Bitcoins
that sort of determine an outcome
I don't know weird stuff
but with that being said like
I him and ha about it a lot
it seems like it'd be pretty great
but like I gotta have like a good crew of people around me
that are like encouraging me
and like wanting all of this success
uh and like i do really want it too it's just like it's a lot of effort and time and sacrifice

(01:39:26):
and like there's like a lot of personal focus that comes in on it but like i'm not sure i'm
prepared for are we talking about youtube being like running on the same ticket is that we're
talking about still let's because i love about both you guys is neither of you are on epstein's
list and i know that like with certainty i don't know that about i did i did go to that party at
michael saylor's house though so who knows what list yeah one might be i don't just kidding but

(01:39:49):
that listen bro it's a nice party i don't want to run for president but i will okay don't fucking
make me do it don't make me do it i know i know you both will i have this very like george washington
esque sense where like if the people demanded i would be president then i would just be like well
now i have to be president you know like fucking i don't want to be but like i would do it if

(01:40:12):
demanded you know i can handle a john adams kind of roll i'm okay with that
i mean like the the thing that kind of sucks that the truth is is that like uh and this is one of
the ones that hurts the most is like our parents completely fucking betrayed us top to bottom
it's one of the reasons we can't have conversations about this because like the truth is that they're

(01:40:33):
100 to blame for all the bad shit that happened they constantly try to be like what was like what
you're supposed to do is you're supposed to say fucking no like you were actually supposed to
continue to resist. And they're like, but we protested in 78 at the Democratic Convention.
It's like, great. Like now you pick up arms and you actually have a full on rebellion. Like,
I'm sorry. It's like not a nice answer, but like, that's what you were supposed to do.

(01:40:56):
But you know what you did instead? You took the money and you decided that you were going to get
a house at a cheap rate and buy it up and watch everything inflate to high heaven and play this
fucking game. And yeah, it's just, it's really sad and painful, but I think that that's part of
the political concourse that we're in is like, I'm pretty sure in 1762, people were like, hey,
the king's totally fucking us. Like we're supposed to have representation when we're taxed. And like,

(01:41:21):
they don't even give us a fucking representative in parliament. Like, what are we supposed to do?
Like, we love the king. We want to be part of the British empire. But like, we also don't want
to get taxed out of the fucking wazoo. Cause like, can you believe it? They're trying to take
three percent three goddamn percent of the tea that we're drinking those motherfucking pieces

(01:41:42):
of shit are stealing three percent of our income meanwhile like we're like lubing up our assholes
here that we can get two fifths and we're like 45 baby like let's go it's in it's genuinely insane
like it it's actually nuts when you think about it's like so i work like basically 50 percent of

(01:42:04):
my time like essentially basically essentially half my time we we let's roll all the taxes in
together right basically 50 of my life's blood my blood sweat and tears my energy just goes right to
the government who does what with it builds builds roads i live in illinois like you ever driven on

(01:42:26):
the roads in illinois you ever driven the roads in chicago they're like they're very bad they're
just all always potholes like everywhere always non-stop like it is insane it's like no the
government doesn't fucking build the road from the roman empire that like still exists but like
it's usually within three years that we have to like repave the asphalt so like even if the

(01:42:48):
government is building the roads they're like really really really fucking bad at it which
was like another heuristic we should probably discuss but at the end of the day like um
the sad truth is is that like yeah like the money isn't going to the road it's like going to like
like help murder brown people and like choose your jurisdiction like there's totally white

(01:43:09):
people that are murdered too by our weapons like sure it turns out that we're equal opportunities
in russia destroyers of humans yeah yeah yeah we really were equal equal opportunity murderers um
it's it's it's like DEI you know like our bomb our bombs don't don't our bombs are colorblind
Really, like they'll just they'll they'll blow you up no matter what.

(01:43:30):
Yeah, whoever's going to make money from it, it's OK.
And like the honest truth is, like, I don't know how sincere dialogue happens like this, but I also know like the only because like Elon Musk had his whole thing for a while.
Like, we're going to do the America Party.
But like, let's be fair, like he's part of this network in various ways and capacities, whether or not he likes it.
And at the end of the day, like it has to be a grassroots movement.

(01:43:53):
It has to be Bitcoiners because unless the relationship between state money is broken, like there can't be a fundamental political change.
And like fiat is the true communism of the 20th century.
Like that's why it's a global thing.
That's why it's happened everywhere.
That's why every single fucking military on the planet is literally financed through these fiat means.

(01:44:13):
Like there's like nowhere on earth where people are like, yeah, yeah, let's give 30 percent of our GDP to the to the military.
Like, yeah, that's a great idea. Like nowhere did anybody ever make that agreement, which also like that's the really beautiful thing, in my opinion, is that like what we're talking about isn't batshit crazy stuff.
Like, in fact, like 90 percent of humanity is in total agreement with us. And now we have this great thing called the Internet and we have this great way to communicate called Noster. We're like, we can do that in a censorship resistant way that like there's an actual possibility that we could save the world from the global panopticon and totalitarianism that's coming.

(01:44:52):
but that's going to demand a lot of effort and sacrifice in a way that's different.
And to be clear, George Washington, who's obviously the greatest fucking man who ever lived,
which was validated by the most powerful man who ever lived at the time, King George III,
like he made massive sacrifices where like he lost his only fucking child.
He lost his farm. He lost most of his fortune.

(01:45:14):
Like there was a lot of really bad shit that happened to George Washington and he still made it happen.
And for any fuck out there who's like, well, George Washington, no, like George Washington pretty much single fucking handedly decided that the American Revolution was going to happen.
And like read into like how Valley Forge played out and like why he was such an essential piece to like making sure that the entire Continental Army didn't collapse.

(01:45:36):
But with that being said, like, I think there's an opportunity.
I'd like to participate in it.
I have trepidations and hesitations about it
because, you know, like, murdering me and shit
for that reason would be, like, a pretty good idea.
But anyways, ah, fuck it.
Like, we only got one life to live, right?
So, uh, YOLO.
We're gonna die anyway.
We're gonna fucking die anyway.

(01:45:57):
And also, like, the contemplation of that death is important.
And it would be pretty badass if in, like, 2040...
Super badass.
Yeah, if in, like, the 25th century,
like, my great-great-great-great-grandkids
were, like, still riding on the coattails
of, like, the case in Family Day
being super corrupt douchebags that all
needed to get their heads chopped off and hand our lineage.
But like, it is
an interesting... It was a 30 generation run.

(01:46:18):
It wasn't so bad. I've thought about this
before that if you were to run
for president, you know,
or really any high political office,
you actually, in order to do it correctly,
have to
be willing to die.
It's the only way
that you can do it correctly.
If you're not willing to die,
you're going to be corrupted and co-opted

(01:46:40):
almost immediately, first day, right?
First hour, first minute.
So it's only somebody who does have the courage
to step in and say, I will risk my own life.
I will gamble with my life in order to save.
And I guess that's probably where the great man theory
of history comes from is that it's very rare

(01:47:00):
that an individual decides to gamble with their life
for the collective, you know?
It's very rare, right?
It happens occasionally, but not that often.
Man, it's wild too that George Washington was like after all that sacrifice
and then after emerging victorious and could have very well easily been like,

(01:47:24):
yeah, I'll just – maybe I'll just take a few extra terms.
He was just like, nah.
Now my time is done.
Like that – in my mind, like that's what cements him, right,
as like a truly like the ability to step away but then it's like also like in the modern context
it's like maybe you don't want to step away like i don't i don't even know there was a there was

(01:47:49):
an american painter we're only i don't even know if i'm gonna get into this next part so you hold
you you do it huddle excuse me jesus i'm so sorry i was gonna say there was an american painter in
london i can't remember his name but you know he was painting in the palace and uh king george
asked him what George Washington would do
after the war was over
now that the war was concluding

(01:48:10):
and the painter said
I'm hearing
a tale that he'll go home
to his farm and
tend to his affairs there
and King George said
if he does that he will become
the greatest person in history
and then he did it
you know
you're fucking badass

(01:48:31):
I mean like I think the truth is
that like uh men of dignity and courage like understand like that that's like the thing that
you do to like achieve that and like i think it's really interesting like they're in contemporary
dialogue the idea of what glory is is completely extinct like there there's no conversation

(01:48:52):
whatsoever about doing something glorious and like it's like a very weird terminology to bring
up but it's really interesting that it actually does still exist and like uh like people who are
trying to like beat extreme sports records or other things they're like truly entering into
like doing a glorious thing in order to like make that level of achievement but it's not discussed

(01:49:14):
in that way and so like glory is actually that's very real feature that also like if you like it's
really interesting if you actually read about the american revolution the people who participated in
it and also pretty much all wars before the 20th century like glory was actually a primary component
of their motivation for the engagement in it and that's just like not even anywhere in the dialogue

(01:49:37):
now there are only three reasons for war really is it's or you know in in antiquity and it's god
gold or glory or some combination of of all three right and that and now in a fiat forever war
context that's been completely lost well it's funny i i have like another essay or book or
whatever you want to call that i've worked on that like essentially since the civil war uh that like

(01:50:00):
war itself is this thing that is unrelational to classic war that like it's just like a module of
murder for money but also like it's something that is self-perpetuating and that like that's
the only feature it has and that like there is no winning at all and Hannah Arden has this really
interesting uh essay where she talks about like the like what the nuclear age implemented was this

(01:50:22):
idea of like the the total eradication of all people within a certain sphere and like it can't
ever be occupied again for hundreds of years. Like that's a very specialized form of insanity
that like there's no winning at all in that. It's just something different. And this also goes to
the heuristics of like what the Vietnam War was, is that like, because of the way that the partisan

(01:50:44):
and the general population blended into each other, like we didn't have a heuristic of like,
if we're winning or not, other than just like pure body count, which like obviously is something
that is unrelational to war on a whole.
But it goes to speak to like,
literally like what we're in now
is like when we speak about infinite wars,
like it's not actually even relational to war.

(01:51:07):
It's just like this gigantic murderous thing
of like literally like bodies for money,
which is like a pretty sickening thing on a whole.
And again, to be clear,
like that's the fundamental substrate
of like how the global world order works.
And it's funny because like,
I feel a lot of pity for liberals because like I feel like their heart is in the right place and they want the right thing.

(01:51:29):
But like they're they're a little bit like the Tin Man or like the is the Scarecrow or the Tin Man, the one without a brain but a heart like they have the heart but not the brain.
Yeah.
The wait, the Scarecrow has no brain.
The Tin Man has no heart.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
OK.
Yeah.
So, yeah, like the that kind of makes sense because the Tin Man is like a soldier.

(01:51:49):
OK.
Okay. Anyways, like they're like, I like where their heart is, but they're not thinking at all about it. And like, that's the thing I really love glitching liberals out on is like, like, like, I feel you like, like people like brown people shouldn't be murdered. But like, let's, let's observe the heuristics of like how that is happening. And like, let's be clear that like, it's because we have this giant war machine that's financed explicitly by like you paying taxes and like being like a good, a good little citizen that's like gonna do that.

(01:52:20):
And like is willing to be like, oh, like now that my blue people were elected and like they are going to give us some sort of social program here that like that is now appropriate.
So, yeah, like I hope there's like some great plebearian out there who's like, I'm going to build the orange party and like run with this fucking like wholeheart to you.
Totally support.

(01:52:41):
If you want to like rope our asses in somehow you can.
But like you're you're probably going to have to be like a self-sovereign bitcoiner in some way.
because also like i think that's the i think that's the lower bound threshold is that like
you have to be self-sovereign with your wealth through bitcoin to do this because like to be
clear like once any contraction happens at all like the powers that be will freak out and like
ending your bank account is the first thing like isn't that what they did with the fuentes they

(01:53:04):
like ended bank accounts they made it got debanked all the great all the gripers all his followers
got debanked kanye got debanked you know yeah and it's wild to me that like these things happen
and people are like, couldn't happen to me.
It's like, like, like.
It happened to anybody?
Yeah, like, why don't you just like think for yourself?

(01:53:27):
By the way, I debanked.
I debanked myself because there's fucking no money in the bank account.
My wife.
Good job.
My wife keeps being like, do we really have to?
I've had the card gets declined like two or three times a month.
I'm like, babe, that's just the way we're living.
Okay.
It's opportunity cost, babe.
All right, you got to understand, babe.

(01:53:47):
We can't keep a lot in fiat, babe.
Can't keep a lot, babe.
We're in a bull market, babe.
You know, it's all that.
Do you still stack as psychopathically as you once did, Hodel?
Have you ever stopped stacking psychopathically?
Well, it made it.
No, I mean, yes, I don't stack psychopathically anymore.
I had to go further out on the risk curve in order to try and make more Bitcoin.

(01:54:08):
And so the way I stack these days is in Bitcoin startups, which are fucking ridiculous.
Eric knows, they're ridiculously risky. And then, you know, in trying to do treasury company trades
and things of that nature, which is, you know, are ridiculously risky. And so I've had to go
much further out on the risk curve in order to try and meaningfully increase my Bitcoin position.

(01:54:30):
And after four years of doing this, I can say that I have outperformed Bitcoin. I did the math.
I did a calculation on this recently by 15%, which is not, no, it's not very much.
Yeah, it's not a good thing.
Yeah.
It's not worth it.
Because like, bro, all this time and effort, he could have just outperformed Bitcoin.

(01:54:53):
My point is that you did it at all.
Like, what else are you going to do?
Dude, dude, listen, I'm a privileged insider who knows everybody in Bitcoin who has access to the deals and blah, blah, blah.
And I was able to do 15%.
15%. It's not worth it. It's not fucking worth it.
It's funny. This shit happens to me late at night sometimes where I'm like, oh my God, I have to have an investment plan.

(01:55:15):
I have to set up my trust and my 401k. I have to do the whole paranoid schizophrenic thing.
And I'm like, shut the fuck up. You have the most asymmetric bet in human history on your side.
Bet you have constantly proven to yourself is right.
Like even just looking over the last month, we outperformed pretty much everything.
and the fact that like I do that at a standstill by sitting on my hand like I frequently will wake

(01:55:40):
up and be like oh I like like made more money than I did in my normal life than I did before
by doing nothing like what does that mean which to me it implements a very specific form of nihilism
of like how retarded this whole world of finances and how wrong it is and what a gigantic scam it's
very it's very similar to the gold thing like if you look at gold's performance since the year 2000
It's like outperformed the S&P 500 ridiculously.

(01:56:03):
And so it's like you can do that whole insane schizophrenic shell game or you can just like hold a bearer asset for like a long period of time and you like win.
And it's just I don't know.
It like fucks with me a lot because it's like what does it mean that the entire financial paradigm that we've created is essentially a fiction where instead of like the like think about the entirety of CNBC and all the financial markets.

(01:56:29):
Like all of this shit that's about trying to teach you how to make money can literally just be replaced by the sentence of like, just hold Bitcoin. Like, that's it.
And I get that like there's a certain level of faith you have to have in that.
But also like that's where logic comes in is that like you have to be like, I understand that I have feelings and those feelings are trying to influence the outcome of my belief about these things.

(01:56:56):
But there's also logic and backtesting.
And like we can provably say over the last 20 years that gold has outperformed S&P 500, that Bitcoin since its existence has outperformed S&P 500, that the CAGR rate of these things outperforms S&P 500.
So like maybe we should just do that.
But I don't want to shit on anybody. Like if you want to engage in your paranoid schizophrenic game that is inherently allowing for this system of systematic abuse to exist like you can.

(01:57:26):
But you're participating in all of our general slavery. And so you should maybe think about that, particularly if you're one of these people who wants to come to me and be like, you won't immediately say that Donald Trump is actually literally Hitler and he is implementing the Holocaust right now.
Like, yeah, I'm not going to say that because I don't think he's literally Hitler.

(01:57:46):
I don't think he's principled enough to be a fascist.
But furthermore, like you actually support a system that does inherently help a genocidal system exist.
So like that just I don't know.
Like maybe you should look at that.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
The Bible says that you should keep a third of your wealth in gold, a third of your wealth in real estate.

(01:58:11):
and a third of your wealth in your business.
And honestly, that advice is 2,000 years old.
It's fucking great advice.
Like if you just replace gold with Bitcoin and you did that,
you would just be super prosperous.
Like your FA ain't going to tell you that shit.
The Bible's got you covered though, dog.
Like it's just like the simplest things in the world.

(01:58:32):
Like the portfolio, you know who outperforms?
Like which investor group outperforms?
Dead people because their fucking portfolios
don't move okay so it's just like doing nothing is the key and that's my whole point is like i
didn't say i outperformed bitcoin by 15 to be like look at me i'm sophisticated whatever like
no it's like right no it was not worth my time or effort and i fucking just pissed away a bunch of

(01:58:59):
hours i could have otherwise spent doing anything else that i actually enjoyed with my life and the
extra 15 is is fucking meaningless it's marginal so why did i feel compelled to do it in the first
place wasted yeah it's like he took all this time and effort to scale Everest when you could just
like take the escalator right and like I get there's some satisfaction about scaling Everest

(01:59:20):
but like the escalator is like I had no satisfaction from this when I did the math
on how much I had made when I added up the wins and losses I was like this is this sucks fuck this
why did I even do this you know okay yeah but by the same token we we I think all three of us know
that you're not doing what you do right now because you're like,
I'm going to like, this is a purely like,

(01:59:42):
I'm going to make as much money as I can thing.
You're doing this also because you are trying to like invest in companies
that you believe in,
even though you know those companies are probably not going to perform
better than the hurdle rate of Bitcoin.
Yeah.
That's the, that's the justification.
That's the justification you tell yourself as a Bitcoin startup investor.
You're like, well, it doesn't work out.
You know, I'm doing it for Bitcoin.

(02:00:04):
I'm in it for the tech.
I'm in it for the tech.
It's not for the money, it's the tech.
I've kept you guys here for a while now,
but I appreciate both of you coming on here.
These group therapy sessions are always wonderful.
Is there anything you want to close with to leave people with,

(02:00:24):
send people?
Hodel, you want to show any of your startup investments
or Casey, you want to show Vora?
I'm trying to show a Noster business at the end of every,
The end of every pod I go on for free.
So check out Oshi on Noster.
O-S-H-I.

(02:00:44):
They have all sorts of yummy dessert things and like nut butter stuff.
Yeah, it looks good.
So check out Oshi.
Nut butter, you say.
It's a Noster only.
Yeah, nut butter.
It's a Noster only business.
It's a Noster only business, I think.
And I haven't sampled the product yet, but I'm going to order some.
Everybody else says it's fucking amazing.

(02:01:05):
check it out uh oh she you're gonna sample some nut butter huh yeah let me know how it goes
this is the topic of your next vlog nut butter it tastes yummy
all shill um vora vora.io that's like the company that me and jesse posed in our building like we're
we're essentially trying to build like the unicorn thing that everybody wanted which essentially is

(02:01:28):
like a from silicon to software like a fully open source transparent fairs viable computer
that's going to have like an application layer
that's going to allow for you to be self-sovereign
with your Bitcoin in a new and different way
through a totally new cryptographic protocol
built on Bitcoin with new authentication factors
that like Jesse Posner as like the lead senior architect

(02:01:53):
at Block and a contributor to like a core dev contributor
and an individual that has made multiple contributions
to open source Bitcoin development.
He's fucking brilliant.
And my partner.
But it's kind of funny because as we show this to like a lot of these users, like, whoa, this is like a really big vision.
Or like, what?
Like, are you like a small dick little fuck that like, like, I thought that's what you wanted.

(02:02:18):
Like, don't you want like big vision?
Because like, we're giving you an opportunity to invest in a trillion dollar company.
But you're like, oh, it's too scary to invest a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Like, that's what you do.
and like you invested in like all kinds of idiotic shit that's gonna make you like four dollars so
anyways uh this isn't a public solicitation but like if you're a venture capitalist and like want

(02:02:41):
to throw some money at something reach out uh but yeah the other one is is like again we'll revisit
this in the future when bitcoin's like 150 000 or whatever but just like if you're worried about
money and that's like a thing that you do and you like have a bunch of fiat you by the way like
where the fuck are you guys getting fiat money like how do you guys have fiat money like i just
like i'm like a little suspicious now you guys you're like you're still stacking it's like we're

(02:03:06):
with what like did you have more chairs to sell because i thought we like liquidated that shit
a while ago so like i'm like on to you two um this is my last chair you guys come on although
like i'm super hypocritical right now like i'm like actually sitting in a chair so like i should
I should maybe shut the fuck up.
Disgusting.
I used to think better.

(02:03:27):
Gross.
Yeah, it's fair.
If we do the political thing, I have to apologize about the kinky shit that's going to come out about me.
Nothing illegal, just weird.
I'm sorry.
That chair is a Sibian.
It's actually a Sibian.
Yeah.
God.
Don't look that up, you guys.

(02:03:48):
Please make sure your VPN is on if you look that up.
I love that we all know what that is, though.
It's like a Howard Stern thing from the early 2000s.
Didn't need to be explained.
Didn't need to be, you know, like.
Although, like, now somebody needs to develop, like, the lightning-fed Sibian thing that, like, changes the controls on it.
I'll let you guys figure that out for yourselves.

(02:04:09):
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
It's another angel for a group.
Only fans and only fans integration.
Yeah.
God, like, why hasn't somebody made only zaps already?
Like, clearly, we need to go deeper into the degeneracy of culture and help feed it.
But anyways, that's a different story.
I tried to start Footster, guys.
I tried to start Footster.
You can still go to Footster.com.

(02:04:29):
I think the website's still active.
I think I'm still paying for it.
By the way, the long tail of OnlyFans shows that there are 2 million women out there who showed their pussy for $50 or less a month.
Which is like, that is not good, man.
if you're a top 0.1% creator
you're making millions dollars a month

(02:04:50):
cool I support you I guess
I don't know
$50?
there's a lot of things you can do to earn $50
that aren't showing your pussy to the internet
you know
I don't think that there's a lot of long term
thought going on there
much love to you guys
yeah can't wait till we do another one of these

(02:05:12):
it's always fun to have a little group therapy
session and realized that not everyone on on planet earth is actually retarded um so it's
always nice to meet with other people that have like put multiple brain cells together and like
made them collaborate and work together to like figure shit out but truly it's actually very
inspirational to like see and know and understand because like bitcoiners are always like several

(02:05:34):
standard deviations removed from any other groupings of people which is why like working
out of presidio bitcoin has been so incredible because it's like anytime somebody comes through
the door they're always fucking awesome like irregardless whereas like if i go out anywhere
else in the world the heuristic is usually like 99 of people we're going to talk about sports ball

(02:05:55):
or other norm stuff that makes me want to become an alcoholic so that's kind of where we're at
fucking love you guys appreciate your time and i want to shout out to everybody who joined this
on Noster. We had up to
129 people viewing on
Noster and still have 81
people viewing this live stream
on a decentralized

(02:06:16):
censorship resistant protocol.
And that's pretty neat.
So thank you. And look, if each one of those people
paid you $1 to show you their
pussy or their penis, like
you'd be outperforming only fans.
Only zaps, baby. Hold on
guys. I don't know if that's how the model works.
They paid me to show
I don't know. We should
That is the dude version of OnlyFans, right?

(02:06:38):
It's like where you pay girls to look at your penis.
Now that's a business idea right there.
We can build that on Noster.
Look at my penis for $1.
You guys, I think we have a company.
We need to cut this recording right now so we don't give away too much alpha on this new round.

(02:07:01):
Okay.
I appreciate you guys.
I'm cutting the stream now.
Peace.
See you guys.
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.
Remember to subscribe to this podcast, wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet.

(02:07:27):
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin on X YouTube and Rumble.
Just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoin podcast.
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you and head to

(02:07:51):
Bitcoin podcast.net for everything else.
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.
Until next time, stay free.

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