BITCOIN NEWS ROUNDUP: JACK DORSEY'S PROTO RIG, MICHAEL SAYLOR BUYS, TRUMP/BESSENT, HARDVARD IBIT, & MORE

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Jack Dorsey's block launches ProtoMiner, the greatest Bitcoin miner of all time.

(00:04):
Michael Saylor's strategy continues to gobble up Bitcoin at never-before-seen rates.
Toxic Bitcoin maxis force U.S. Treasury Secretary Besson to walk back comments made about the
government not buying Bitcoin. The top 100 Bitcoin treasury companies now collectively own almost
1 million Bitcoin. Harvard University reveals they own over $100 million in the iBit Bitcoin ETF.

(00:26):
and the Ethereum co-founder and some British guy compete to see who is retard of the month.
I'm Walker America, and this is the Bitcoin News Roundup on the Bitcoin podcast.

(00:56):
Bitcoin projects.

(01:26):
so
dudes thanks for joining this is somewhat impromptu um for anybody who is on noster already

(01:50):
watching thanks for joining and for everybody listening later to this after the fact you should
check out Noster so you can actually listen to these things live. But we are going to do a news
roundup of sorts. And we're kind of picking and choosing. We're not going to make it through all
the news. There's very serious journalists who do a much better job at the news than we ever will,
like Natalie Brunel. So if you want real news from a real journalist, go check out her show.

(02:15):
But for what I think our purposes are, we're going to do a little bit of drinking. We're going to do
a little bit of talking through stuff. And we're just going to have a good old time with it. So I
think maybe where we where we start off with this is let's since I mean since we're talking about
about mining already Jack Dorsey his block company just launched the proto miner which is honestly
pretty sweet so their whole thing is like made in America and I'll pull up I'll pull up their site

(02:39):
as well just so you guys everyone can see this but it like this thing looks pretty damn cool
and the fact that they are like actually doing this in America I think is awesome we need more
of that. Obviously, a huge issue with mining generally is just that there is a huge dependency
on Chinese manufacturers, which like, sure, it's like worked out kind of, you know, fine for now.

(03:00):
But that's just like, obviously, you know, kind of a big potential issue. And so now these guys
are like really doing a great job of decentralizing the mining. I don't know why this isn't loading.
Maybe their site's getting just slammed right now. Let's see. Let's go back to the old homepage.
There we go. It's very nicely designed. I'll bring up some other stuff on this, though. But basically,
as far as I understand it, and maybe you guys have gone deeper into it, but their whole idea

(03:21):
was like, let's make this thing as modular as possible so that we can not need to completely,
you know, refab an entire data center when you want to replace your miners. Instead,
you can just kind of, you know, plug and play with different components, which can be independently
upgraded. And it's one of those things where it's like, well, yeah, duh, why wasn't that just kind
of the standard before? But I guess it's one of those things where it's like, nobody does it until

(03:45):
somebody does it. And now I hope this does kind of become very much a standard here. But from what
from what Jack said about it, his goal is to make he's already saying, I guess not not his goal,
but it's that this is going to be the basically greatest miner of all time, greatest Bitcoin
miner of all time there. You heard it here first from Jack, I should probably like this from the
old Bitcoin podcast account. I don't know what do you guys think about this? Like, to me, this is a

(04:08):
super just like, cool development. Like there's all the NGU stuff. And everybody likes the number
going up but i love to see like jack's been on a roll lately obviously between his his uh you know
bit chat his son app blocks doing great things personally i love to see this i think it's great
and the more of the stuff that gets done in america i think the better you know anytime we

(04:28):
can reduce our reliance on uh foreign frenemies i think that's a good thing but love to hear what
you guys think as an ee i love this yeah and i think he's on to something i actually used to
work at black and decker so i used to design like their battery and bluetooth like chart and charger
systems so it's kind of interesting how how this is going to play out market wise because it's like

(04:50):
actually sometimes you actually lock you get vendor lock-in benefits from getting people to
kind of design around your system like that's a big part of you know they'll give away a lot of
dewalt batteries and other stuff to to kind of achieve that so from like a market perspective
I'm curious how that plays out.
And obviously modular design is great.
It's way less wasteful.
I can't believe, as you said, I can't believe somebody's not done this yet.

(05:13):
And then you add in the geopolitics aspect.
It's like, if you're an American miner, do you really want to potentially introduce a
backdoor into your system that could leak hash power?
I'm not saying that actually has happened yet, but the more and more you rely on foreign
suppliers, the worse it gets.
having been at black and decker i've seen they've they've stolen so much of our stuff dude they've

(05:37):
they've done so many weird messed up deals like dealing with foreign contractors is a damn nightmare
in manufacturing so i think it's awesome like being able to you know just fly into georgia and
check out the production line it probably has a lot of benefits for american miners so i love to
see it yeah i think it's sick i think uh you know some people give jack a tough time online for

(05:59):
you know various parts of his career but and the guy just stays creating cool shit he's the
definition of an entrepreneur so like you said this and then bit chat like don't doubt him i
would say that no amen and like again i think this is just reading through some of this like
you hear right from the top you know with modular hardware and software that simplifies
proto shares a fresh new take on what mining can be uh so i mean i love to see this and i love that

(06:24):
they're also open sourcing this whole fleet management side of it. Like that's very much
in line with, I think Jack's, you know, developer ethos, right? This is a very positive development.
We want, you know, obviously we're all, we're all Americans. We may be a little bit biased,
but like, I want to see more of this stuff happening in America. I want more opportunities

(06:45):
for like actual, you know, not just software to be made here, which we do a lot of, but for
hardware to be made here. And that's what a lot of the stuff that we have, you know,
consistently been pushing offshore, pushing offshore, searching for cheaper and cheaper
labor. And it's like, could they do this elsewhere? Sure, they could. And could they
do it cheaper? Sure. But like, I think it's a it says a lot about the long term vision of an

(07:06):
organization, if they're willing to take a bit of a short term hit and kind of do what they believe
is right by their customers, and let's say by their their country as well. And to make that
investment in the long term, even if it does maybe isn't quite as sweet for your bottom line in the
short term. So I love seeing that. And again, they're pointing out here, like we heard during
our explorations, we heard from mining operators that legacy hardware is not optimized for a lot

(07:29):
of existing infrastructure. Shoebox machines often leave power unused at the wall, hash rate limited
by the amount of space a machine can take up on a rack, and upgrading from one generation to the
next means essentially starting over with entirely new machines. ProtoRig is designed to solve for
rack space density, get the most out of existing electrical infrastructure, and make upgrades
extremely easy and efficient. So I think that's, that's sweet. They fit, let's see, fits three

(07:56):
miners worth of boards in the space of two legacy miners delivering more than 1.5 times the power
per foot of rack space compared to the most efficient shoebox miners on the market. Like,
you know, that's great to see. And I hope that we see more of this, like you want as much
competition in this space as possible. And especially as it comes to like, you know,

(08:16):
I think a lot of people who are at least deep in the Bitcoin space are aware that
there's a huge issue with, you know, mining pool centralization, block template creation
centralization, and also with the, you know, the hardware supply chain vulnerability because of
its centralization. And it's like, this is at least addressing, you know, one of those also,
you know, obviously Jack's a supporter of ocean and that kind of addresses one of the other

(08:37):
components of that. So I don't know. I love to see it. I hope we see more of this and I don't,
the rigs, like they, they look pretty sweet too. So like anytime you can make like a sexy piece
of hardware like that just you know you'd rather buy something that looks good than something that
doesn't and if it works even better like well it's a win-win the iphone effect yeah yeah exactly
to add to what you're saying about competition i think one part you went over but the fact that

(09:01):
it's open source uh at the at the fleet management level i think is huge because being in texas you
meet a lot of miners that's where a lot of the hash rate is even small miners like i was really
surprised they'll hire a software team to like manage this stuff and you just wonder like is there
some kind of inefficiency there and also is there going to be a cambrian explosion of new innovation

(09:23):
there that might actually be the secret weapon that takes it to another level yeah and it's like
if you have if you're providing you know people are going to be incentivized to to get your rigs
if like you're providing something that is going to cut down on ultimately like the refab costs of
these facilities that's huge like if you're you know you need to spend millions and millions of
to build up a factory to fit a certain spec for the miners that you have.

(09:45):
And then a couple of years later, you need to upgrade your miners and then upgrade your
whole facility as well.
It's like you're basically starting from scratch like that.
That's that's not an ideal situation.
You do not want that.
So I think feel like this like it's not only good just from like a, you know, made in America,
but it's like just genuinely good from a business perspective.
Like this is a, you know, people are going to want this.

(10:06):
And I think that's like you guys ever read the blue ocean strategy.
No, what's that?
It's like this idea that a lot of industries, they trend toward a red ocean, which means everyone, like, it's kind of saturated and they end up competing on cost.
I love how Jack kind of took a whole new approach to this and was like, okay, we'll reemphasize these parts.

(10:29):
Maybe we'll deemphasize these parts and come together.
And so it seems like, based on what I've seen, maybe they're not quite as good on jewels per tera hash, but they've attacked other cost centers like the OPEX.
So less so on the energy side, but more on like the OPEX stuff.
And you figure like probably next they're going to figure out how can we slam more jewels per terahash through this thing.

(10:51):
And then, you know, by the second or third generation, they'll be like probably even further ahead on that stuff.
So like that's kind of an amazing approach to this.
And I'm really curious to see how it plays out.
Yeah, Rob Warren had a great thread kind of breaking that down as well.
Like, well, you know, while everyone has been wrestling over how to squeeze another jewel per tera hash out of the newest generation miner, Proto rebuilt the farm from the machine level up.

(11:14):
And, you know, it goes, I don't have to drain this thread.
I can I can link it, link it in the old show notes afterwards for folks who want to.
But like, you know, he basically breaks down the three largest expenses miners will incur are facility builds and retrofits, electrical costs and machine purchases and maintenance.
So this is basically, you know, this is addressing a lot of that.
you run into a serious problem years down the road, machine size, power draw, and footprint

(11:37):
change. So then you have massive retrofit costs. Like that's not ideal, you know? And especially
because like mining is such a competitive industry. Like you, like not only do you need to find the
cheapest electricity you possibly can, it's like, you don't want to be spending extra money
retrofitting a factory if you don't have to like that, that, that hurts, you know? And so it's like
these guys, you know, Proto has done something different. They treated the chassis of the machine

(11:58):
as farm infrastructure and allow you to hot swap boards fans and power supplies as technology
advances like that to me is like like that's brilliant um and i think that's like really
kind of a game changer and it just pushes everyone else in the industry to kind of like oh shit like
look what these guys are doing like this is setting a new standard in my opinion yeah it it and it it

(12:19):
really reminds me kind of of what elon musk did with with manufacturing he kind of revolutionized
the manufacturing process for electric cars where no one can still do it.
And he's gotten such a leg up on everybody from doing it.
This is kind of similar to that in a bit more Bitcoin mining fashion.
No doubt.
Is there anything else we want to cover on that before we jump onto the next one here?

(12:42):
And again, guys, for anybody listening live to this on Zap.Stream, first of all, hello.
And we are just figuring this out as we go.
Maybe actually before we jump into the next one,
do you guys just want to do like a super quick introduction of yourselves?
because that just, you know, just so that you're not, you know, talking heads up here.
Jim, if you want to go for it.
Okay. Yeah. My name is Jim Carucci. I'm an Austin-based Bitcoiner and entrepreneur. I work

(13:05):
out of Pleb Lab slash Austin, Bitcoin Park Austin every day. So, you know, deep in the community
here. And, you know, we were just talking about modular design. I build modular AI systems and
then I repurpose them and do a bunch of different things such as pull that up, jamie.ai and other
systems right on yeah um i'm matt mcbride i'm i'm based out of uh kent island maryland you might

(13:26):
see me on x i've been rucking for a bitcoin job for 19 rucks now i i don't know how many weeks
it's been but i've been working with with walker behind the scenes he's he's a cool ass dude gave
me an opportunity to work with him just uh out here out here trying to find my home in the bitcoin
space and spread the joy of bitcoin to the world that's that's that's my mission i i quit my fiat

(13:49):
job and I'm all in and ready to rock. I love it guys. And yeah, this was, uh, you know, somewhat,
uh, somewhat impromptu. I like, I haven't done these new shows in a while and I was doing them
solo before. And that's just like, not nearly as fun. Nobody wants to hear me talk by myself
for that long. And that's not why they come here. So like, I think this, uh, this format works
better as always, like if it can be a way to help, you know, elevate my fellow plebs in any way,

(14:14):
that is something that I am all about.
So let's talk about some folks that are definitely not plebs,
which is our Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant, or Besant.
I'm still not sure how you pronounce it.
So basically, for those who, maybe if you're on Nostromi
and you're not caught up in all the Twitter drama du jour,
basically, Besant made a comment on Fox yesterday.

(14:38):
I'll just share the screen, but I won't share the audio here,
because honestly, I don't know how.
So I'll just tell you what he said. But essentially, he and this was my very obviously inflammatory tweet that went pseudo viral about this. But he basically was talking about, okay, we're not going to revalue the gold to its current, you know, it's right now valued at like, you know, it's had the same value of like whatever $42 or something like that per ounce for decades. And, you know, they haven't revalued it to kind of, you know, market to the current market price.

(15:08):
So we're not going to do that. And like he did say about Bitcoin, he was like, this is a, you know, a store of value for the 21st century. And it's like, okay, yeah, that's, that's great. Like store value for the American people for the 21st century. Awesome. Agreed. But then he made a comment saying that the US will not be buying any Bitcoin specifically said it like we won't be buying any of that, but we will continue to confiscate it. And, you know, we have our confiscated Bitcoin already. He says that's about 10 or 15 to $20 billion worth.

(15:35):
But he said, we're not going to be buying any more of it.
We'll just keep confiscating.
And if we do that, we're not going to sell any, which is like fine.
But the problem is here that this is different than what they said in the executive order,
which was that they would look for budget neutral ways to acquire more Bitcoin.
Now, I personally think I believe in the art of pleb peer pressure.

(15:56):
And so this is where I felt the need to kind of come in and make a really inflammatory tweet
and, you know, blow it up.
And a lot of other folks did too.
And then what was amazing about this is we then saw some capitulation.
Let me find this here.
Here we go.
So he clarified the comment literally like a couple hours later, basically saying that

(16:16):
Bitcoin that has been finally forfeited to the federal government will be the foundation of the strategic Bitcoin reserve
that President Donald Trump established in his March executive order.
In addition, Treasury is committed to exploring budget neutral pathways to expand the reserve and to execute on the president's promise to make the United States the, quote, Bitcoin superpower of the world.

(16:39):
So like clearly somebody, there was enough backlash to this that somebody at the Trump admin was like, listen, dude, people are pissed because you just said we're not going to be buying any Bitcoin.
You need to like go back and clarify, you know, that we're still holding to the text of the executive order.
Like this is still what we doing He did that And I think like it honestly just a it a great example of the fact that like Bitcoiners are very like loud and obnoxious when we see things that are incorrect And we are growing in our political power and influence because our economic power is growing

(17:14):
And that naturally lends itself to more influence.
Like to see, you know, it's a good reminder that if you see something that you're like, hmm, you know, that doesn't, that doesn't quite smell right.
Just make a big stink about it online.
and politicians tend to pay attention to that because they do not want to deal with a scandal
of any kind. And so I thought this was a great illustrative lesson in plebs getting together to

(17:35):
shame our government into sticking to their word. Now, I personally don't give a flying fuck if the
US government actually buys Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need the US government. The US government
needs Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need politicians. Politicians need Bitcoin. That being said, again,
as an American, I know every country in the world is eventually going to buy Bitcoin.
I would like it if my country did it first.

(17:55):
So at least, you know, stick to your budget neutral pathways.
But curious to hear your guys take on this.
Yeah, lay it on me.
Yeah, you know, politics is politics, right?
How many times have they said something and then walked it back two hours later and and
then they'll walk it back again two days later.
And it's like, what the hell is going on?
But like you said, the power of clubs.
I mean, I do think that people remember that Bitcoiners played a major role in this presidential

(18:19):
election.
um and you know just maybe when we when we get loud like that it's it's a little quicker to the
point now yeah i agree i mean um i like malucker i don't really give a fuck whether or not they buy
like in a way it'd be kind of funny if they didn't buy like it's funny that some random guy sold 80k
coins and he has like almost as many as the u.s government like that's pretty insane nuts yeah you

(18:43):
know it's the largest most powerful government in the world is like poorer than that guy but
So, you know, it's funny.
We had we had the privilege of having Angela McArdle come through Pleb Lab the other day.
And that was kind of that was like the day the storm verdict came down.
And we were all pretty black billed.
And she came in and delivered some pretty big white pills, I would say.

(19:04):
And basically just explaining how much power we have and how like, you know, if we play our cars right, even if we like do it through the Libertarian Party, like we can force pretty serious concessions through the Republicans.
And that would be massive.
like if we're just if we're just like a swing vote and we just forced force one party to be
better that's that's a lot of power like we couldn't imagine that you know 10 years ago

(19:28):
where we were just getting steamrolled so things are changing for the better in some ways i think
we got to be vigilant i think we can't just let them you know buddy fuck us and like kind of say
one thing and do another so that's why what you did is really important but i think it's a big
white pill that we have a lot of agency here. Yeah. I mean, I think that point of like Bitcoiners
being a faction that can operate as a really meaningful swing vote and kind of already having

(19:52):
that proof of concept from the last election, like, you know, I would, Trump may have been
able to win regardless, but man, Bitcoiners were a big swing in his favor. And I think that that's
like, that's becoming more apparent to folks on the left. And it would be very wise of them to
learn from that and to adjust their strategy. We'll see if they actually, you know, they actually do,

(20:12):
or if they just, you know, double down and keep saying that, you know, Bitcoin and Trump and
Trump coin are all the same thing. But, you know, it really like it doesn't matter at the end of the
day. You know, Bitcoin doesn't care. However, it's obviously better to be in a regulatory structure
where Bitcoiners are respected, where people's right to freely transact and to, you know,

(20:33):
to do so in a manner that they see fit is respected. And we want more of that. Like what
I keep saying is like, you'd rather have, you know, a government full of Cynthia Lummuses than
you would a government full of Elizabeth Warrens. Take it to the extreme. Which one do you want?
You'd rather have the Cynthia Lummis because they're on your side at least. And so I think
that we're going to see more and more pandering to Bitcoiners, not just for their campaign

(20:59):
contributions, but also for obviously their memetic strength. You mentioned also the Roman
storm verdict. Do you want to talk about that at all? This was obviously like just kind of came
down, but he got a guilty verdict, right, for conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money
transmitting business, essentially.

(21:20):
Like, I mean, which is, I think he got a not guilty count on the conspiracy to like violate
US sanctions.
So at least there's that.
But this is just like one of those, to me, this is one of those examples of like the
law being so far behind technology, like technology is always going to move faster than the law.
And clearly, like, this is just kind of a ridiculous, like ridiculous situation where a guy wrote open source software and then is going to be put in jail for writing that because in under weird definitions of existing law, people can be made to believe that he was somehow operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, even though he wasn't.

(21:55):
I don't know.
I don't know where you guys are at on that.
I find it so absurd.
So when that came, I found out about like I found out that morning about it.
And what was weird was that Angela came in like that afternoon to just kind of have like an informal meet and greet with a bunch of different Bitcoin entrepreneurs.
And she had just gotten off the phone with him.
And she was saying that he's pretty upbeat and that they think they'll probably be able to get him a part in based on that, you know, ways on they have like like knock on what I'm not trying to jinx it or anything.

(22:25):
But it does seem like that can happen.
But this goes back to why we need to put pressure on people.
Like Ross isn't free if we don't put pressure on the Libertarian Party plus a bunch of other people, plus a bunch of people giving money.
That's really important.
And I think that case is crazy because it's pretty much a – we thought that Kamala was going to go after the First Amendment, but that's really like a First Amendment violation.

(22:53):
And in the Bernstein versus U.S. case in the Ninth Circuit in the 90s, that was like the original cypherpunk case that showed that like encryption and software is is speech.
I think it's a really bad precedent that they're trying to go down this path.
And I think there's a lot of like rogue DOJ people in there because this goes in direct defiance of the Blanche memo.

(23:15):
That's the deputy attorney general saying, like, we're not going to we're not going to do legislation by prosecution.
I mean, at a minimum, I think there has to be a change of culture where it's not like we're just going to arrest you.
It should at least be a warning shot of like, hey, we suspect that there's messed up stuff happening through your servers.
Like, at least give them a warning shot to shut it down.

(23:36):
Like, it's very bad faith, in my opinion, that their first move is to just go seize their servers in Iceland and arrest them.
Like, that's ridiculous.
And it was the same treatment, essentially, as with the samurai devs, right?
Like this is basically, you know, the different cases, obviously, but similar treatment where it's like, it's kind of like, you know, arrest first and ask questions later and, you know, tell them what, you know, what version of the law you're slapping them with in this case.

(24:01):
These money transmitter laws and all of this entire AML, KYC, Patriot Act regime is just so fundamentally anti-American and anti-freedom.
And just this presupposition that everyone is a criminal and should be treated as such regardless of the situation.

(24:22):
I think that, I mean, sadly, most people still don't pay attention to Bitcoin.
Most people, even more people aren't going to pay attention to these cases, but they're really important.
and it does set like a pretty dark precedent.
And I hope, I mean, it'd be great to see pardons issued in these cases.
You would think that there would be some desire for that from the Trump admin.
I mean, given that like these are some like last vestiges of that Biden admin

(24:46):
and kind of that Operation Chokepoint 2.0, you know, like tentacles,
you know, getting out into every little bit of the, you know, the cryptoverse.
So I don't know.
0But damn, like it's rough.
It's rough for these guys. 301 00:24:57,1000 --> 00:24:58,920 I cannot imagine.
Yeah, people fear what they don't understand.
It doesn't matter what level they're at. I think we all know the level of education on this stuff for those people is minimal.

(25:07):
So whether it's from previous administration or not, they don't know what they're doing when it comes to this stuff.
So naturally, it's going to be us versus them. We'll take it and figure it out later, which is super unfortunate and super sad.
Yeah. And one thing I want to harp on, I was actually listening to your pod with Gary Walker earlier.
I was making clips and stuff with pull that up, Jamie.ai.

(25:28):
But, you know, both of your experiences I thought was interesting on Capitol Hill.
So like his experience was pretty positive because he was able to hone in on like a problem that she had, which was consumer protection.
She one of the staff, one of the U.S. senator staffer, you know, had had her debit card stolen or something and had to go through that whole rigmarole.

(25:49):
So so showing her the lightning network and how great it is that it operates like cash, but you get the convenience of digital like that.
that's amazing and then you've contrasted with your interaction with dirty dick durbin and you're
like you're like you know and he was basically conflating bitcoin and crypto and calling you
guys all scammers and um and and like this is why we need to bully scammers and altcoiners even

(26:12):
harder make sure that the distinction is even more apparent it's like it's like you know he
totally shut down the conversation with you over over him like thinking that bitcoin and crypto are
the same where it's really not even close to the same and like this goes back to like learning
tools for persuasion how to change your pitch based on who you're talking to like i'm in austin
i'm frequently behind enemy lines and uh and you know a lot of the time the pitch is like this is

(26:38):
human rights money like this isn't this isn't like a speculation this is just like a this is us
fighting for human rights in the digital age and you pitch it that way it's much more palatable to
people that are more left-leaning obviously the right right-leaning people have a different pitch
I think Bitcoin is pretty good at that one, but I think people should practice changing the pitch a little bit based on who you're talking to and trying to relate it to real problems they have in their life and also trying to separate Bitcoin from crypto.

(27:03):
That was one of our biggest takeaways from the day was like, we're not going to get much across these people because they're starting from such a, whether it's staffers or the policy, you know, policymakers themselves, they're starting from such a low level of understanding.
But if there's one thing you can get across, it's really important to it.
Bitcoin does not equal crypto.
Donald Trump's token and Melania's token, those are not Bitcoin.

(27:23):
They have nothing to do with Bitcoin.
So if you were saying the orange man bad and look at this crypto Bitcoin token he made,
it's like, no, no, no, no.
Like these are separate things.
This has literally nothing to do with each other.
But then there's also like the fact that like Dick Durbin's like 83 years old.
One of the other reps that we talked to, well, we didn't talk to her.
We talked to one of her senior staffers.
He literally told us, he's like, listen, she's not going to vote for any pro Bitcoin legislation.

(27:48):
I'm just telling you that.
But she's also like, he's like, we were outside the office.
We were like in the hallway talking about this.
Like he didn't want to meet with us in the office, which I was like, interesting.
But he's like, like, she's going to be out soon.
She's like 85.
Like, don't like, so there's that at least.
I was like, okay, well, you know, appreciate your honesty there.
And it makes you wonder, is there a generational component to this where it's like, even if they lean left, you know, they'll be more with it.

(28:11):
So they'll at least understand the technology a little bit better.
And it won't just be like, you know, that what does that mean from the Simpsons where they're like, like I used to be with it.
And then they changed what it was.
And now it's scary to me.
Something like that.
Like, that's probably how he feels when you bring up anything having to do with computers, let alone Bitcoin.
Yeah.
Fun, fun anecdote.

(28:32):
I was at Sam's Club this morning and my wife and I were talking about how funny it was, how many people still don't pay ahead of time on the app while they're shopping.
And they just choose to wait in that line no matter how long it is just because they refuse to embrace technology.
The other thing I was going to say is many moons ago, I interned on Capitol Hill for a congressman.

(28:53):
Being in the belly of the beast, one thing that I believe is super important when we're talking to policymakers, you really want to orange pill their staff.
These politicians, they don't read everything.
Any one of them who says they do are complete liars, which we know is super foreign to politicians.
Orange pilling the staff is key because a lot of the papers that are written, a lot of the statements to their constituents, a lot of their public statements on news, it's coming from their staffers.

(29:21):
Their staffers are doing the work.
And that was the craziest juxtaposition to me was like you've got these 80-some-year-old octogenarian, just like decrepit old politicians.
And then their staffers are like that one horrible video about like the – I forget.
it's it's those like zoomer girls who are all in the circle doing that like little like

(29:42):
dance in things like something something in a mini i don't remember exactly what it is but like that
that was literally like how i felt walking into all those offices i'm like what is going on here
like this is who is like actually like writing policy and then just like shipping it up to the
you know to their great great grandfather for like their signature and like gee what is going
like no wonder what things are so dysfunctional and nothing real gets done it's like of course not

(30:05):
Yeah. And you're on the deep blue state. I wonder how it changes. It's like by state.
Yeah. Illinois is maybe not. Well, it's representative of a deep blue state,
but yeah, it's terrible. Okay. I feel dirty talking about it now. Okay. Let's get into next.
Let's talk about good old Bitcoin treasury companies because there are so many of them now.

(30:30):
You know, so there's been like, there's a lot of gut reactions to these.
I think a lot of people feel that like, okay, this is, you know, this is somehow the co-option
of Bitcoin or, you know, it's like, you know, it's, it's paper Bitcoin.
Like this is just, it's going to blow up.
It's, you know, the alt coins of this cycle.
I'm of the opinion that it's like, this is just a natural progression.
Like, of course, companies are going to want to hold Bitcoin.

(30:51):
Like just like countries are going to want to hold Bitcoin.
Like this is what happens if Bitcoin is winning.
It doesn't mean you have to, you know, you don't have to like it or you don't have to
buy any of these like but you know it is going to happen and i think also like my my big uh kind of
thing that i try to drill home to people is like man you know you can buy these but like i hope that

(31:12):
your goal if you're buying a bitcoin treasury company's stock if you're buying their equity
your goal is to outperform bitcoin so like if you're not outperforming bitcoin what like if
your goal is not to just accumulate more bitcoin by being a super savvy trader with these and you
know you know buying low and selling high and then converting those fiat proceeds into bitcoin after
paying all the your taxes to the the relevant government's authority then like what what's the

(31:37):
point here so like it's like for the average person if you're not willing to spend a ton of
time like monitoring these things super closely you you should just buy spot bitcoin and take it
into your own self-custody and like you you're going to do great you'll probably still outperform
most people who are trying to trade this stuff like realistically you will 100 i've done this

(31:58):
experimentally i have a roth ira it's tax-free so i can move in and out of these treasury companies
and you know i'll buy some at different points when they drop and i've yet to really outperform
bitcoin i mean i mean maybe a time or two like i got similar scientific super early and i outperformed
it and then it came back down and I'm no longer outperforming Bitcoin. So if you're super good at

(32:22):
it, you know, by all means, do your thing. But as a firsthand experience, I can tell you it's
pretty tough. Yeah. One thing that is interesting here. I'll go ahead, Jim. I was just going to say
like for me, same thing. It's like what it what it all say. It's like, give me two Bitcoin or give
me one Bitcoin. I'll give you two back. Like that is kind of what it is. You might outperform in the
short term i don't think it's gonna outperform in the long run i do think i will say that i think

(32:47):
mstr versus everything else like massive asymmetry they have the first mover advantage and also like
you have a you know aerospace engineer designing like financial instruments to possibly catch you
know soak up some of the wall street casino stuff and the other thing to remember is i think something
crazy like 97 percent of capital is mandated to be in certain types of markets so um i think

(33:11):
sailor is catering to that maybe the others will do the same but it feels kind of like a winner
winner take all if that even plays out at all and once again like you know this is like it's still
cuck bucks like if you if you own these stocks they're cuck bucks like they can be taken from
you it's not like bitcoin where you can just you know store it in your head so i would caution

(33:32):
everyone to get like you know way above like get to at least close to your target of what you want
to have for bitcoin and then start thinking about like if you want to play with a little bit or if
you have stranded fiat in one of your 401ks like be my guest but i'd be very cautious i would treat
it like a shit coin basically yeah and like a lot of them are going to trade exactly like that too

(33:54):
like i think i think your point about strategy is is an important clarification there like obviously
They are developing different types of financial products to address different types of financial markets where there is capital that cannot just go ape into spot Bitcoin Like they don have the capital can go there So like giving that capital a vehicle to get indirect exposure to it that makes a ton of sense And I also think like you know I mean I know a lot of people that are

(34:17):
you know, working on these like, you know, pure play treasury companies, and they're like great
people and hardcore Bitcoiners. And I truly think that like, it is a positive thing that they are
doing. I think Bitcoin treasury companies are good for Bitcoin. Like it's, you know, it certainly
brings a lot more attention to Bitcoin, I think from the like, okay, let me put it this way. Like
you can talk on Bitcoin podcasts ad nauseum about why Bitcoin is great and why you should hold

(34:42):
Bitcoin in self-custody and how this is censorship resistant freedom tech and how, you know, it,
it allows you to opt out of the current system. And like some people care, but like not a ton,
but like you start, you know, you can start a Bitcoin treasury podcast and like, boom,
you will just, you'll blow right up because people want to figure out because most people
are still living in fiat world and they want to get rich in fiat terms. And they're going to do

(35:05):
that by, you know, trading, trading these, you know, Bitcoin treasury companies and options
strategies on top of those and all of that. And so it's just like, you know, it's like the, you
know, that, that meme of like the really, you know, really short line for like Bitcoin at, you
know, whatever, in the depths of the bear market and the really long line for it at a million
dollars. It's kind of like the same thing. It's like, there's a very short line for people who
just won't spot Bitcoin. There's a very long line for people that want, you know, Bitcoin treasury

(35:29):
companies because they think they're like everybody wants to outperform, right? Like everybody wants to
gamble a little bit and try to get a little bit ahead. But if you're not thinking about that in
terms of Bitcoin as your hurdle rate, then like, you know, yeah, you're making fiat gains, but
you're also paying taxes on those fiat gains as you're trading in and out of these vehicles.
And like, if you're not outperforming Bitcoin, what's the point? So like, that's, I think that's

(35:52):
where people need to be really careful. It is pretty amazing to see. I mean, so now let's see,
looking at these, there's over a total of, let's see, 75 Bitcoin held by the top 100 companies that
own Bitcoin. And obviously there's large differences in scale here from strategy with
628,946 down to some that are just holding, you know, 30 Bitcoin. One thing I do want to remark on

(36:16):
that I think is interesting is that Coinbase has started actively accumulating Bitcoin. They had
like a pathetic they had under 10 000 bitcoin as one of the earliest first movers in the industry
which is pathetic they got bumped out of the of the top 10 for for a short time of the top 10
bitcoin treasuries which is insane like your coinbase you've been around forever you literally

(36:37):
sell bitcoin and myriad shit coins but like i think there's like even amongst the shit coiners
there's an acknowledgement that like okay maybe we need to stop playing games here because like
this is a bit of a winner-take-all or winner-take-most game. We're dealing with,
this isn't shitcoin territory. These aren't infinitely printable shitcoins. This is Bitcoin.
I'm like, damn, I guess we got to pay attention to this. So maybe this race helps a lot of those

(37:01):
shitcoin exchanges shape up a little bit and remember the crypto that got them started in
the first place. I don't know. But I think it's funny to see at least Coinbase move back in the
top 10, which again, they should be. They should be top three, but they're not.
I just want to say Coinbase can go fuck themselves.
Yes, that's good.

(37:23):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's funny.
They say like in startups, you want to be you don't you don't want to be a Swiss army knife.
You want to be a knife.
And that's just kind of the mistake they made.
And that's just like typical Silicon Valley, bro, like chasing shiny objects.
I think, you know, even even me, myself and other startup entrepreneurs fall for that.

(37:43):
But it's like, look at fold by contrast.
Like they probably had way less capital to work with and they still out, you know, out stack them.
Like, how is that possible?
And also just want to say, like, you know, Coinbase, you know, what is it?
Brian Armstrong talking about how Bitcoin is a moral imperative while selling Farcoin.
Like, I have to say it again.
Coinbase can go fuck itself.

(38:04):
It is just ridiculous.
Like, you know, the all the orange washing and like him kind of just basically talking to both sides of his mouth.
It's like, oh, yeah, you know, yeah, Bitcoin is a moral imperative.
But like, hey, you know, buy my shit coin.
Like, because that's what I'm making the majority of my fees on is you trading my shit coin.
Not his shit coin, but all of their shit coins.
I mean, I don't know.
Where are you at in this, Matt?

(38:24):
Yeah, I mean, all time fumble, right?
They talk about first mover advantage.
I mean, I think that's really how it shakes out to a winner's take most.
I mean, it seems very obvious if you look at the top five, six, seven, really the top three or four.
That lead is going to be hard to catch.
And a couple of them have the means to do so.
But it's like you mentioned, Bitcoin is the new hurdle rate.

(38:45):
What people don't think about when they hear hurdle rate, they think about just outperforming Bitcoin.
But you also have to think of the time that you're holding other assets to move into Bitcoin.
How much is it going up in that time period?
I mean, if we hit a parabolic, you know, 10K candle, 20K candle, and then we don't come back down, you know, you're stuck with shit.
Yeah. Yeah. It's not a place you want to be stuck.

(39:08):
and like yeah a lot of a lot of people died on the hill of i'll buy back lower like i can think
of one particular guy i know one normie friend i had who had like six million sats he just sold it
before the election he's like i'll buy back lower and i'm like bro what we're at 50k come on yeah
no oh man how how nice it would be to see 58k again though you know that's i i would love the

(39:32):
opportunity to stack some cheap sats i would relish in the pain that 58k would bring uh because
it could be amazing i mean a is the new 58k yeah yeah it's fair enough forever yeah
it is wild though like with strategy and the amount of bitcoin that they have now it's you
know worth something like like uh total value of it now i'm trying to oh let's see let me bring

(39:55):
back up old bitcoin treasuries because that's a is quite a convenient site let's see yeah it is
worth so their average cost it's worth right now is 73.54 billion dollars their average cost is only
a 73 a thousand 288 per coin so like that's i mean that's just pretty like pretty nuts because

(40:19):
especially when you look at like their buys like they've you know sailor buys every top right um
and and it's it's just it's incredible to see also like the fact that their earnings call
just blew everything out.
Like, you know, because of these changes
in these accounting rules now, it's like, wow,
you know, Saylor already looked like a genius,
but now when actually he can, you know,

(40:41):
from a gap accounting standpoint,
report his earnings in such a way like that,
you know, he can actually realize the value of the Bitcoin.
It's like, wow, he looks like even more of a genius,
but we'll see.
I mean, like, it's still just wild.
Cause like, you know, I'll talk to random friends,
like who are pretty, like fairly even tapped in
And still just like people like just haven't even really heard of like most of the stuff that's happening with Bitcoin treasury companies.

(41:03):
Maybe they've heard of micro strategy.
You know, they saw him on Sailor on CNBC or something.
But like it just feels like we're still so early in all of this because retail is definitely not here.
But it's like I heard somebody say like maybe, you know, maybe you don't want retail here yet because when retail is here, that's usually a little toppy.
I don't know.
Maybe this time is different.
Who can say?
Another one I wanted to talk about, you know, buying Bitcoin or buying, you know, Bitcoin instruments. Harvard revealed they have a like 116.66 million dollars worth of IBIT. It's the Harvard endowment. It makes them the 29th largest holder of IBIT, which is like pretty remarkable. I think they, let me see if I can find it here. I think they have more. I'll pull this up on the screen as well.

(41:48):
I think they have more Bitcoin or, you know, they have more iBit, I should say, more iBit than they do like NVIDIA or Google.
Let's see.
I didn't know their position was that big.
That's nuts.
It's massive, right?
So, yeah, the 29th largest holder of iBit.
The university also holds Microsoft Corp.

(42:08):
Shares worth $310 million.
That's a lot.
Amazon worth $234.98 million.
Meta Platforms worth $120.5 million.
Okay, so those are all above their Bitcoin holdings.
But then Alphabet, Google, worth $113.87 million.
India worth $104.4 million.
And SPDR Gold, GLD, shares worth $101.5 million.

(42:34):
So that's wild that Bitcoin is like squarely in the middle of that pack of all those massive names.
But that also makes sense, right?
Because Bitcoin is larger than some of those names.
like your portfolio allocation, if you're one of these endowments, that's a pretty easy
justification to make. Like Bitcoin's the fifth largest asset in the world. How do we not have

(42:55):
some sort of exposure to it? Like, I feel like it's getting to be, it used to be a career risk
to bring up Bitcoin as like, hey, maybe we should, you know, diversify this magic internet money.
Now it's like, you have to answer the question, like, why aren't we in this? Why are we not
getting a piece of the best performing asset in the world? And it's kind of, it's wild to see that
switch. And I think that's, that is going to accelerate as, you know, as numbers go up.

(43:16):
Yeah, and Kathy Wood talks about how it's like the risk-reward values are crazy, and also it's like pretty uncorrelated.
So if you're a Harvard, what are you doing if you're not managing your money by putting some of it into Bitcoin?
Yeah, and I lied, guys.
So it looks like Bitcoin has dropped down from its recent Bitcoin crash.

(43:37):
I don't know if you heard, down to, I guess it's at $116,965.
So that has moved it back below Alphabet and Amazon.
So it's got some work to do, but hey, at least we're still above silver.
So we're still winning there.
We've got quite a ways to go to catch gold at $22.712 trillion.

(43:59):
But I believe we'll be there a lot sooner than most people think.
Yeah, Harvard was probably just tired of looking ignorant on it.
I mean, there's smart people there, obviously.
I'm sure it was very political behind the scenes on why they hadn't gotten into it at that point.
But it reminded me too, I was thinking, how many people who work at the Fed went to Harvard or have ties to that board or anything like that?

(44:21):
I was at a wedding this past spring and I met a guy who worked for the Fed and I was just chatting him up.
And I started talking to him about Bitcoin.
And I shit you not, he knew nothing about Bitcoin.
So I still think there's, you know, we're super early.
I was talking to a guy yesterday about Bitcoin and he was like, yeah, I sold it a while back and now I'm an XRP.

(44:45):
And I just it's it's tough in the streets, man.
I talk to talk to a lot of blue collar people on a regular basis.
I'm from a very rural area and the level of education.
We got time.
I'll put it that way.
It's so it makes me so sick with the XRP scammers done because you got to hand it to them.
They've done a great job with their marketing.
Right.

(45:05):
That like this, you know, and just with a completely like you would think their message would just be disgusting on its face.
Like because it's a banker's coin, right?
Like that's their whole thing is like the only way that they're able to pump their price that, you know, Brad Garlinghouse and all of their the ripple execs can sell off to retail is when they talk about, you know, they tease these new banking partnerships and things.
And XRP is going to be the, you know, the the global, you know, railways for money for the banks and like, you know, help with CBDCs and all this stuff.

(45:33):
And it's like, God, I don't know.
Like how many times do you need to get dumped on by the,
by the ripple founders that run your centralized shit coin to be like,
huh, maybe this isn't such a good thing, but like, I don't know.
I think unit bias is still very real.
I think it's fun.
Like it's on one hand, it's kind of,
it's funny how like they'll tease the bank partnerships.
And then it's like, you know, some subordinate was like, okay, fine.

(45:56):
We'll like put it on our website.
And then the senior people are like, nah, this isn't happening.
Like I remember watching one of their developers crash out about that.
And I thought that was hilarious.
And it's like,
you know,
that was hilarious.
But then it's like on the flip side,
it's kind of sad.
Like I know a lot of blue collar people that are somehow mesmerized by XRP
and you're,
they think they're going to be rich someday.
And you're like,

(46:16):
dude,
like it's not going to happen.
Like,
I don't know.
It's just,
it's really messed up the way they're just like mind fucking people.
Yeah.
It,
it,
it truly is.
And,
but like,
you know,
I don't know.
We can't save everyone.
We can certainly try.
and at least people are getting more exposure to Bitcoin.
One of the other things I wanted to talk about actually

(46:37):
was this Cornell Bitcoin study
because they talk about the top cited reasons
that people don't own Bitcoin.
This was a global study,
but what I thought was particularly interesting
was in the US here,
if you look at the top cited reason,
and this is like the highest reason of any country
in terms of percentage of people

(46:58):
that were allocated to this.
So top-sided reason to never own Bitcoin in a country.
U.S., top reason with the most people of any of these other countries in terms of their categories, citing this, just not interested.
Like, just, I don't know, why don't I own it?
Just not interested.
And I think that that's like...
It's like that meme where he's like, no thanks, I'll just stay poor or something like that.
Well, really, but like, because I think that's the other thing is that people, like, if you're in the United States, like, even when shit's really bad here, you're still better off than like most people, like, than the majority.

(47:27):
like you're still better off than billions and billions of people in the world, right?
So like people in developing countries where they have even worse fiats than the US dollar,
they understand hyperinflation because they've like literally lived it.
So they get why you might want a scarce money or they've gone through like financial repression
and censorship.
So they understand why you might want an uncensorable money.
In the US, it's kind of like, yeah, you know, those things are kind of crazy.

(47:48):
But like you catch the game last night, like there needs to be more pain before people are
willing to like actually become interested in this thing.
So I think you're I think you're on to something. I'm a I'm a big fan of LaserHodl over on Twitter, and he breaks it down like this. Like, basically, there are seasons to the long debt cycles. There's, you know, spring, summer, fall, and now we're in winter. And so up till now, it's like, especially in America, they kind of bribed people in America to like not care about this because overall, like we had a world reserve currency, so we didn't feel it.

(48:24):
And now we're starting to feel it.
Like we're like the first cold snap just started and people are starting to get pissed off.
But, you know, the long cycle, like the basically hiding planetary usury and like they got really good at hiding it.
They did such a good job that nobody in the West noticed until like five years ago.
That's kind of impressive on a level, but it's also like it's scary because it's going to hyperinflate eventually.

(48:50):
Like that seems the path that they're taking.
And as you point out, I can't save everybody.
At least it'll be probably one of the last to hyperinflate.
I mean, I say at least that's such a dark thing to say flippantly because like hyperinflation literally like leads to death and destruction of society.
Like, you know, we didn't do it.
You know, it's not like none of us are responsible for this.
Right. We're doing what we can to get outside of that system.

(49:10):
But like, that's the thing, you know, people talk about the end of the dollar.
But it's like if the dollar is ending, like that means that like probably just about every other fiat currency is already, you know, died a rapid death.
And I think people like discount that a little bit. Like I think it'd be a very odd situation, not that it's impossible, but just the likelihood of it is a lot lower that the, you know, in a vacuum, the US dollar hyperinflates without there being hyperinflation in basically every other fiat currency around the world.

(49:36):
you know and but and the thing is it's like it's such a thin line between like inflation and
hyperinflation you know it's like it's like there's already massive amounts of inflation
it's just we just haven't classified it as hyperinflation yet it's just been a little
bit of theft every year for decades and decades and decades but it's not hyperinflation yet guys
don't worry and it's crazy how there's like we're just gonna we're just gonna fuck you for just a

(49:56):
little bit then we're gonna back off it's not a movie back yeah it's it's crazy how there's like
a generational gradient too it's like you have boomers that kind of benefited from it and then
you have the gen z and al gen alpha are just getting completely wrecked and it's like you
know i don't know yeah it's it's rough and like you know it doesn't help that you've got these

(50:18):
shit coin scammers who are you know pumping people's heads full of nonsense when they should
just be staying humble and stacking sats and that i think actually is a good way to bring us to our
a retard of the week category.
This, I think in the future,
maybe we'll take,
it'd be nice to take submissions
for retard of the week
or retard of the month,
whatever it is.
This first one,
we'll just say it's for retard of the week.

(50:40):
But my, I think the one that I'm really going with here
is it's both like retard and scammer of the week.
But Joe Lubin, co-founder of Ethereum,
basically saying that
the Ethereum treasury companies
are going to push Ethereum
past Bitcoin in market value,
Probably possibly within a year.
And like this, like you would think that this flippening narrative would be dead.

(51:03):
Like if you look at the ETH BTC chart like it is on a one way ticket to zero town But these damn like like this guy has the gall to come out here to to print uh oh and i like infinity scrolling the screen he has the gall to come out here and print
tokens out of out of thin air and you know sell them in a you know massive uh pre-mine and then

(51:25):
to come and say that you know like our little centralized ethereum corporation coin is going
to flip Bitcoin. And it's like, it's just like, no, it's not like, okay, is that is there a 0%
chance? Maybe not zero, like there's like, you know, that's a hard thing to say. But I'd put
the chance it's so infinitesimal, that like, it is ludicrous to even speak about it in a serious

(51:45):
way or to give airtime to these kind of people. And yet, this is what they do all the time.
It's always the narrative of like, this is, you know, like, the next Bitcoin, you know,
this is the faster, better, stronger Bitcoin. This is the world computer. This is, you know,
the flipping narrative was so huge when ETH went through,
I don't remember if it was the merge or the purge or whatever turned it,
where they're like, now ETH is ultrasound money, Bitcoin sound money.

(52:08):
But ETH is like, is ultrasound money because it's deflationary.
And then it's like, it was like deflationary for like a little while,
then just like got back up to their previous issuance schedule.
And all you have to do to like answer this question of like, okay,
if you're a, you know, if you're evaluating Bitcoin versus Ethereum,
it's like, tell me what fundamentals of Ethereum are unchangeable.
like can you tell me the supply cap of ethereum like a heart no because it doesn't doesn't exist

(52:33):
like can you tell me that uh that the roadmap uh that you know the roadmap basically with with
certainty well the fact that even has a giant roadmap that is super convoluted and basically
is controlled by one person one foundation it's all just so patently absurd and so this is why i
nominate joe lubin co-founder of ethereum as retarded we just talk about body language for a

(52:53):
second like yeah like dude look at him he doesn't even believe himself dude he looks like a little
I'll bring it back up.
I'll bring it back up.
It is.
We either draw like, you know, the memes are like they draw the lines and stuff.
Like, look at his body.
It was just like the shoulders are kind of like it's kind of like little and in like, you know, he's not standing proud up there.

(53:14):
I mean, maybe that's just how like if you're a shit coin salesman for so long, your body just takes that shape all the time.
I don't know.
I can't say.
They're not sending their best.
They need a better salesman.
Holy shit.
Speaking of better salesman.
I would love to see a body language expert.
analyze this and i can guarantee that the the bullshit meter is ringing look at just just

(53:34):
slouching like you just you'd look like a weak idiot when you slouch i want to give a shout out
by the way to ben justman of peony lane wine i am a better salesman than joe lubin because i'm not
selling you guys shit coins but i did receive free wine from ben justman i am i'm shilling it
i received no monetary value from ben this is just a pure value for vino exchange and i think
it's my favorite sponsorship ever you guys um so and ben justman's just a super based and awesome

(53:56):
dude. And he is certainly not the retard of the week because he's out there producing actual
things of value instead of finding ways to trick retail into buying a shit coin. Like, dear God.
But okay, are there any other retards that we really want to highlight?
I feel pretty unprepared. Maybe it's the illegal immigrants that went on social security.

(54:18):
I feel like that's pretty retarded.
Many such cases, unfortunately. Many such cases. But I think we haven't really defined
And I might not need to define this category a little bit better.
But yeah, the goal here is, I mean, okay, the other one that we had that we brought up was good old Gary's Economics.
You know, the UK guy?
Yeah.

(54:38):
I'll see if I can bring him up.
That guy just seems like a psyop.
Like, he just seems like he just got done ripping pipes out of the wall to sell for crack.
And now he's like, you know, he's a chav going to tell you how to live your life.
And on top of the body language discussion, this dude's body language is abysmal.
I mean, he's usually like something like this.

(54:59):
And he always looks like he needs a shower for whatever reason.
And he probably does need a shower.
He needs a character shower because the shit that is coming out of his mouth is so abundantly bullshit that it makes me want to.
Have you guys ever seen that movie Rock and Rollo with Gerard Butler?

(55:19):
And like, uh, and Tom Hardy, like a, it's a Guy Ritchie movie.
It's kind of funny.
It's like a cheeky, like gangster film.
He reminds, there's like a rock star in it.
That's like addicted to drugs and goes missing all the time.
He kind of reminds me of that guy.
Dude.
What, what, what, what bugs me about this guy is that like, he's, he's obviously not, uh,
not like not a complete idiot.

(55:41):
Right.
I think, I think he's more so like he is just a, he is a psyop.
Like he, it's in a way like being a shit Quinn salesman.
where like right now his big push is that you need a, you know, wealth tax and inheritance tax
and all these things in the UK. And I just think it's so it's, first of all, those are just
fundamentally stupid ideas. Like those are really stupid ideas. And I think he's smart enough to

(56:03):
know they're stupid ideas. Maybe he's not, maybe he's actually not. I think that he is. And I think
that he's, he's like playing a game here, but like, dear God, you're, you're literally like,
and not to mention the fact for anyone that doesn't know, he has been very anti Bitcoin and said,
that Bitcoin is basically a scam.
I'll see if I can find his stuff on Bitcoin here.
But what bugs me about it is that even with his negativity around Bitcoin,

(56:28):
he talks about all these problems.
He talks about all these issues, the wealth disparity and all these things.
I'm like, yeah, these are problems, right?
But the solution that you're proposing isn't a solution.
The solution to, you know, wealth inequality is not to implement wealth taxes and inheritance taxes, because one, an inheritance tax is just like, I think, fundamentally immoral.

(56:50):
And wealth taxes just don't work because the capital just leaves.
And like, it's just dumb.
Like taxing unrealized gains is just dumb.
But like, meanwhile, you've got Bitcoin staring you in the face.
And you ignore it.
There's one.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
there's one question we need to ask ourselves and is it is can gary bench two plates and if he can't

(57:12):
then we just got to discard his opinion on everything no dude there's no chance he's
benching benching two plates and with the with the wealth tax too there's already data like
recent data that is screaming about that specifically in europe i mean everyone with
money has already left at this point yeah yeah it's you would think i mean it's like the people

(57:33):
who are still pro-communism.
Like you are pro a destructive,
an economically and societally destructive ideology
that literally has been responsible
for the deaths of over 100 million people
and has failed every time it was tried.
But like, hey, we'll do it different this time.
It's like the same thing with like a wealth tax,
which is basically just one step on the road to communism.

(57:55):
And the same with like an inheritance tax.
Like that's one of the things they did.
It's like, this is coming from someone
who is married to a woman who came from a communist country where her family on both
sides experienced this.
Like, this isn't just me making this up.
Like, they confiscate possessions.
They don't allow you to pass anything down.
Everything is owned by the state.

(58:16):
I mean, ultimately, they say it's owned by the people.
But like, the hubris of people like Gary to think that the answer to the problems with
government is, hey, let's give the government more power.
Let's do more government stuff.
Like, yeah, the government's done such a terrible job of all these things.
So what we should do is just give them a little bit more power to tax people even more.
And that'll somehow just magically fix it.

(58:36):
It's like, I, which this is why, like, can he be that stupid?
Like, I know he like made a lot of money.
He's always talking about, you know, his trades and whatnot that he was making, you know, all of it because he was a math, a math expert.
I think I need to do a different accent for him.
That's, that was not a good one.
But like, I don't know, can like, can he be that much of a retard or is he just like a big old psyop?

(58:58):
Because it felt like he's just started getting boosted everywhere out of nowhere.
Like, and yeah, I don't know.
He reminds me of, you remember Will McCaskill, the effective altruist guy?
It feels like he's the wind that guy basically.
Yep.
You know, and he was probably at my six.
If you look at him, he looks like he was SPF Sandler, if you're asking me.
But one question I have is, you know, is the fact that all the elites or the product, you know, private, the productive class leaving, does that have an effect on the politics in terms of like chat control?

(59:30):
Because it seems like those are the types of people that would be smart enough and have the resources to fight chat control.
And now it just seems like they're kind of trapped with this panopticon.
And as you point out, that's another pillar of communism is constant surveillance.
How does that weigh in?
It's honestly a great question.
The UK has got some issues right now.

(59:51):
But what gives me hope in the UK is folks like Peter McCormack just deciding,
like i'm just gonna go out and do things and i'm gonna use like i've created a lot of value in this
world and i'm gonna go take some of that value and i'm gonna kind of like pay it back to try and
like fix things up in my hometown because the government's not doing anything about it so like
i'm just gonna do it like that kind of attitude that we need we need more of that and like well

(01:00:16):
that's what actually gets shit done and moves the needles individuals deciding to make a decision
and just fucking do things yeah and hats off to peter like i i think what you said he's heroic and
this is one of my pet peeves about Bitcoiners sometimes is talking about what they're going to
do when they retire. And it's like, dude, if you're, if you're under 50, like you got a lot

(01:00:36):
of energy left and the world is broken and we need strong men. It's like, do what Peter's doing.
Like, don't, don't take shit from anyone. Don't work a job you hate, but find some kind of like
community service or mentorship or below market rate thing you can do that will like make the
world better. Don't just sit on your stack. I feel like that's pretty lame. Yeah. He's,
he's a complete boss you want to talk about the perfect debate him and gary i would love to see

(01:01:01):
it i would love it i think he's invited him on the show like okay i think i think so and like
you know and and for that reason maybe what do we think is who do we want to give the retard of the
week ground to well i i said i said this to you in private outside of the show but weekly uh what
was his name joe makes sense yeah good old joe and i told you for me gary is just the retard of

(01:01:25):
to summer i mean i've been yeah the algorithm has been shooting out his bullshit to me all summer
and every time i hear him speak i want to jump out a window and and part of it is because he's just
so scummy and the way that he does it because you know that there's some young people over there who
are struggling who are latching on to the bullshit he's saying yep yeah and also he's from britain

(01:01:48):
and we need to reverse colonize britain so i'll vote for gary as well i'm pretty sure peter okay
let's let you know what we'll we'll have a uh i like that characterization he gets the retard of
the summer gary does and uh joe can have retard of the week and yeah i think peter mcormack is
gonna pretty soon start his his own revolution in the uk like he's just gonna have a private
mercenary force that just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and then he's like well

(01:02:11):
you know may as well maybe just maybe just topple the old crown who can who can say
he's got the skull and bones logo already so just keep it going he's a he's a he's a pirate he's a
Batman. He's yeah. Shout out to Peter. He's above all, he's a good dude. And damn, what a podcaster
to learned a lot from from that bloke. We should wrap soon, guys. Last thing I would say is just a

(01:02:32):
little end on that Trump did sign an executive order allowing Americans to add crypto and Bitcoin,
you know, in their 401ks. So basically, there's a lot of, of like, passive, passive accumulation
that may happen here. I don't want to get into this too much. But I think this is just like the
larger theme here is that this is another acknowledgement of the fact that Bitcoin is

(01:02:55):
like an important thing, which is here to stay. This is, you know, we're at a really interesting
time. And I hope like I want as many plebs as possible to get exposure to Bitcoin. And if that
becomes easier through their existing vehicles, where they may actually have a little bit saved
up that they like can't touch for a long time, and that hopefully the government won't confiscate,
you know, to pay off our massive, you know, $37 trillion pile of debt, but like, fingers crossed,

(01:03:19):
but making it easier for people to get exposure to bitcoin not to crypto but to bitcoin i think is
ultimately a great thing and so i hope we see more of that i hope we see more just like i think that
the biggest barrier to adoption is still and always just education but luckily or unluckily
the more that governments do really dumb stuff and obviously mismanage and bungle our economy

(01:03:40):
and our money because they're not smarter than the free market the more people end up coming over to
bitcoin because they realize just how broken the existing system is so whether you're running toward
Bitcoin or away from fiat, all roads eventually lead to Bitcoin. Just depends how long it takes
you to get there. Anything else you guys want to add to close it out? Yeah. So a lot of what we
talked about kind of centered around plebs and people having fiat brain and how it really

(01:04:06):
sours their ability to grasp the asset. Putting it in 401ks, I think is huge. Most of the people
that I know, millennial, I'm 35 years old. So everyone I know has a 401k. They don't know
what's in it. 90% of them don't know what they're buying. They don't care. So even though the
education is a barrier, simply by it getting put in there without them even knowing about it,

(01:04:28):
it's going to help them out in the end. And I think that's good. It could be an extremely
liberating point in time when we look back on it. Jim, what about you?
Yeah. I mean, on this story, I don't really understand the mechanics. I don't get how it's
too different from the etf like are they going to do in-kind redemptions like i'm not really sure
how that works like it seems like your 401k would have to have infrastructure to custody the asset

(01:04:53):
so i'm not totally sure how that changes things i mean it's good that it's allowed but for me it's
kind of a nothing burger because it's like we need we need like legislation to affirm things
we still need to affirm like the brca like that's the biggest thing for me is making sure we affirm
people's right to write open source software without fear of prosecution,

(01:05:14):
write privacy tools,
write to encryption,
write to self custody.
Like those things are the most important to me.
And for me,
it's like less about having favors from the government,
more just running out the clock and not letting them fuck with us this early.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's,
it's basically like,
let's,
you know,
I think we're a Bitcoin is still the Trojan horse for freedom that is making

(01:05:36):
its way into the kind of the gates of government and wall street.
Like it's not, it's like the, you know, like I'm not trapped in here with you.
Like you're trapped in here with me thing.
Like that's like, and that's Bitcoin.
And, you know, American HODL has said this a bunch, but he's like, you know, guys, like
we're in the gates right now.
Like we're in the belly of the horse.
Like we're inside, you know, the Citadel, like we just got to shut up and like keep
quiet for a little bit longer.
And then, you know, we'll go out and do our thing once everyone's passed out.

(01:05:59):
But, but yeah, I'm very, I'm very ultimately hopeful for the future because like, it's
just wild that the Overton window has shifted so much that these things are just being talked
about like very normally now. This isn't like a friend. Bitcoin isn't some fringe thing anymore.
This is like, it is, you know, it's mainstream. Like, you know, your favorite band went mainstream,
like you knew about them before they were cool, but like a lot of people have heard of them now.

(01:06:21):
But yeah, I think as, as a, a core cohort of toxic Bitcoin maximalists, we still have a lot
of work to do. There's a lot of education still to do, and there's a lot of orange pilling still
to do, but ultimately it's like, you have to orange pill yourself. So the best thing we can
do is just like be there to educate people when they're ready and know that that may still take a
while but appreciate both you guys coming on here uh this was the first one of uh what i hope will

(01:06:46):
will be a regular thing but yeah appreciate your guys time another shout out to ben justman because
i'm just enjoying his wine and it's surely making this little news recap even just more enjoyable so
appreciate both of you guys you want to just let people know where they can find you or just uh
show anything you're working on real quick since you're both here yeah for sure like i said i'm
I'm still rucking for a Bitcoin job.
So check me out on X at Beef Toshi.

(01:07:10):
Spell it how it sounds.
I'm also constantly dropping GIFs and sassy little replies to people.
So come talk to me.
I love talking about Bitcoin and I love orange billing people.
So let's talk.
Are you on Noster yet?
I am.
I'm on Noster with the same name.
Okay.
Just fired it up recently.
So I'm still building out the structure there.

(01:07:31):
There we go.
There we go.
Jim?
Yeah, I'm Uncle Jim 21 on Twitter and Noster. And, you know, I'm building on AI. I'm basically
trying to make AI as based and Bitcoin friendly as possible. So building modular systems,
building, pull that up, jamie.ai to get the massive propaganda machine going and doing all
kinds of other like AI consulting stuff. Love it. Well, appreciate it. Thanks to everybody who

(01:07:53):
tuned in on the Noster only live stream. If you're listening to this later, you should have listened
to it on Noster. So what are you doing? But appreciate both you guys. Appreciate your time.
Grateful for Bitcoin for bringing people like us together. And yeah, let's do it again soon. Peace, guys.

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