THE GREAT BITCOIN AWAKENING | American Hodl & Erik Cason (THE Bitcoin Podcast) - THE Bitcoin Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
For me, it's very clear that everybody now has to go through the logical concourse of

(00:03):
understanding that Bitcoin is the premier and final asset that you want, and that destroys
the dollar unequivocally.
You won't be able to make people hold on to dollars any longer without that fundamentally
getting backed by Bitcoin directly.
It doesn't matter if there's a strategic reserve, if it's not taken to the dollar.
People will be smart enough to figure out, oh, the US government's literally holding

(00:26):
Bitcoin because they don't believe in their own fucking currency, so I need Bitcoin.
How much wealth, how much value was destroyed by fiat currency, and how much of that value
could have been compounded into the future?
We're supposed to be the inheritors of that wealth, but we were basically stiffed, and
so it was kind of us up to us to look around and say, well, how do we fix it?

(00:49):
Like the blockchain of humanity threw an error, and that doesn't happen in every generation.
In fact, you know, you can go on for many generations without ever getting an error.
But fiat is an error.
And we had to take a good hard look around and say, how can we fix that so that we can
kickstart the engine of global capitalism so that we can push value into the future
rather than extracting value from the future in order to live for today?
The fixed supply of Bitcoin and how this operates, like, it has nothing to do with humans.

(01:13):
And like, our little fucking monkey brains that like can't understand the markets well
enough, like that's the thing that panics and sells and shit, and that's why Bitcoin
will continue to gain in the way it will.
Us getting up to like a 2 million Bitcoin is not like a new cycle.
Like this is just Bitcoin doing what it is normally done in its general four year cycles.

(01:34):
And so when that happens, like people are going to really freak out and think that there's
something different going on, and it's not.
And furthermore, Bitcoin will continue to match the same fucking trajectory it has done.
And again, because like, it has nothing to do with people.
Like the way that that market operates is because we know and understand how the happening

(01:55):
works.
We know and understand how the block, like how each new block is produced, and that
has nothing to do with our tiny little fucking ape minds.
Bitcoin is true.
That's why people are organizing themselves around it.
It really is pretty much that simple.
The big difference between today and four years ago is that like, it's now clear Bitcoin
is not going away.
It is clear that nation states are going to start battling each other to figure out how

(02:17):
the fuck do they figure out this new system.
And it's not to say that like it won't necessarily get captured, but like in terms of it being
an asset, it is not going anywhere.
And that's really fucking important.
Let's get this through our, let's get this through our heads liberals.
Okay.
Humanity, human flourishing is dependent on increasing energy usage.

(02:40):
Pretty simple.
Just let's get that one in there.
Let's put that in the head and let's remember it.
Okay.
We're trying to fucking kill all the people on the planet.
You mouth, those in piece of shit.
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

(03:00):
My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast.
The Bitcoin time chain is 880148 and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.
Today's episode is a rip with Eric Cason and American hodl slash hodl.
We did one of these episodes a while back and everyone really enjoyed it, including
us.

(03:21):
So when I thought about who I should talk to on this auspicious inauguration day, I
of course thought of these two dudes.
I love and respect the hell out of these guys and they are the perfect people to help break
down everything going on right now.
By the way, this conversation was streamed live on Noster, which is the only place you
can watch the Bitcoin podcast live.

(03:41):
So if you want to do that in the future, head over to primal.net slash Walker and primal.net
slash.
And if you're not on Noster yet, what the heck are you doing before we dive into me a
favor and subscribe to the Bitcoin podcast, wherever you're listening and make sure to
subscribe on YouTube or rumble as well by searching at Walker America, head to the show

(04:03):
notes to grab discount links for my sponsor bit box or go to bit box dot Swiss slash Walker
and use promo code Walker, send an email to hello at Bitcoin podcast.net.
If you have feedback or if you're interested in sponsoring the Bitcoin podcast, and if
you find this show valuable, consider giving value back by giving it a zap on Noster or
a boost on fountain.

(04:24):
Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Eric Cason and American
Hodel.
How did you actually get like, how did you get your machine back up and running?
This is my, this is my second machine.
So like, this is my travel machine that I'm on, but in front of where my normal machine

(04:48):
goes.
But yeah, so anybody who's like, what is this start on time?
First of all, fuck you.
I'm like, I don't have to show up here if I don't want to.
Second of all, my machine shit the bed.
My machine shit the bed.
Reasonable excuses.
All right.
I always want to show up for Bitcoin podcast, but I'm like, in the back of my mind, I'm
like, but if I don't like, you know, what?

(05:13):
It's like a whole fucked up life though.
You know, there's part of me that's like, oh, I got to do all this stuff and I have all
these obligations and, and then the back of my mind, it's like, no, like you literally
could just do nothing for the rest of your life and that would be fine.
And then there's another part of me that's like, no, like, there's this opportunity to
change humanity and the destiny of human history.

(05:34):
And like, I got to do my part and there's another part that's like, or you could just
go outside and like have an apple.
Me and Eric, we're in, me and Eric, we're in a Uber in Miami and we were on our way to
interview a Senator who's now the director of national intelligence, which is weird.
And we were a little drunk when we went there and, and we were talking in the car about

(05:59):
like going to Bitcoin conferences and whatever.
And we were like, both of us were expressing this, this thought of like, why is it still
us?
Why can't it be some other dude?
Why is it still us?
And then we were like, yeah, I guess we're just called the beer.
I don't know.
You know, it was pretty fucking weird.

(06:19):
I feel a little guilty now, inviting both of you guys here.
I'm like, shit here.
Here I pull them into another fucking Bitcoin podcast, roping them in here with talk of
inauguration day shenanigans and such.
It's like, once you get here, it's great.
It's just getting here.
That's always the issue.
You know, it's like thinking about it's like fucking Walker again, like that guy's going

(06:39):
to be here staring at me with those dead eyes.
Well, talking to me and another friend, we're talking about like setting up like a, like
doing a Bitcoin business kind of thing, and we were just talking about like, on one hand,
like all of the things were called to and obligated.
It's kind of difficult and hard and particularly like the huddle, I think kind of where you're
at in life.

(07:00):
It's like, you know, I can just hang out and do nothing and like numbers going to go up
forever.
So like, well, I just enjoy my nice sweet little life.
And then, you know, for me, like I live out in the middle of the forest.
Like I just came back from the ocean with my kids, you know, beautiful fucking day.
Great.
And I was like, why, why do I bother with any of this other shit that I keep asking myself

(07:20):
to do?
And I'm constantly in this like weird metronome.
But the other truth is like when, when I'm talking with you guys, like my peoples and
I'm like close with you and we're like in person and shit, it lights me up more than
anything else.
Like I feel sincerely connected that like I'm on purpose that like this is really what
life is supposed to feel like.

(07:41):
So even though like for all intents and purposes, like my life is pretty fucking epic and beautiful,
there's still this nagging behind me that's like, go be with your peoples, go accomplish
your purpose.
Like there is a destiny waiting for you.
And it's a little haunting to be honest with you because like as great as my days will
be, even at the end of those, I can be like, I could have been with my peoples working

(08:03):
on my projects, pushing forward my ideals and blah, blah, blah.
So it's a bit of a Greek tragedy in some ways.
I think there was a, maybe it was Mark Andre, someone was on the Joe Rogan show and he was
talking about like Roman noblemen, like attending their fish ponds.
Like they'd have these like estates and they would have fish ponds on them and they would

(08:25):
like spend all day like meticulously cultivating the fish, the perfect fish pond or river or
you know, grounds for their estate, whatever.
And that, you know, at a certain point, like you just, you have to get back and get involved
in the republic.
And I think that's like why it's salient today is because, you know, like in no small part

(08:45):
Bitcoiners helped to get Donald Trump elected.
And we're getting, you know, we're getting politically active and politically motivated
now because I think there is that calling from the world that says like, like, I mean,
when we all thought about Bitcoin being inevitable, probably a lot of us thought about the game
theoretic of nation state adoption.
That was always a component that was going to happen at some point down the line.

(09:09):
I think the thing that was surprising though to me was that the guys who were doing it
were all of our friends and people we knew and peers.
That was really novel because in my head I was like, I'm not an adult.
The adults will do that.
But then in years past and I became an adult and then suddenly I was one of the adults

(09:31):
like knowing the other adults.
I wasn't actually doing that much myself.
Let's go on.
So it was just shitposting.
But I knew other guys and those guys posting really well though.
Like this like Bitcoin is shitposted their way into relevancy though.
Like it wasn't it wasn't just the, you know, unfuckable money.
It was the massive amount of shitposting and memes.
Like that I feel like that had a substantial impact on like where everything is today.

(09:56):
Like you mean things into existence.
Like I think the strength of your memes, Hodel cannot be discounted.
By the way, I'm just going to have to cycle between Hodel and Hodel as I remember.
And I just want to, for, you know, just like misnaming you, I just want to beg your forgiveness
in advance.
Just offensive to be honest with you.
It is racist actually.
There's only one pronunciation of Hodel and it's hard.

(10:21):
Oh God.
Here we go again.
Have to get right into this.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that, but I do respect that your name is pronounced
Hodel.
I think it's the European pronunciation actually.
I think that's what it comes down to.
That might have been the confusion.
I can't do this racism walker.
I got to walk out now.

(10:41):
This is so objectionable.
Well, speaking of racism, I hear Trump is going to deport, deport everyone.
And that's probably racist, right?
That's something that we...
I've been waiting to be deported.
I'm kidding about the racism part.
It's not racist if you deport all the races.

(11:03):
Well, like Bingo.
I'm pretty sure we've hit like full pendulum swing and like now we're actually like starting
the swing back because like even, even the liberals are now being like, oh, like they
set Los Angeles on fire.
Like that was intentional.
You know, I'm like, it's, it's pretty interesting to like watch them actually like self reflect

(11:23):
for a minute and actually like laugh at themselves in self reflection.
It's kind of wild.
Yeah.
Like to be like, oh, maybe this wasn't a great idea.
Like maybe having Venezuelan gangs in Colorado, you know, is like not great.
Like how could, but who could have known who could have possibly foreseen negative externalities
to terrible policy?

(11:44):
It's shocking.
I mean, I think it'll be really interesting to see, you know, like I mentioned earlier,
me and Eric were having a conversation with the director of national intelligence.
That's weird.
That's weird.
It's like still a little high on acid too.
Yeah, you are.
And so like Eric's coming down off of acid.

(12:07):
I'm drunk.
We're talking to the director of national intelligence.
We're talking about Tulsi, right?
Yeah, Tulsi.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I look at like Tulsi Gavard, like Cash Patel at FBI and like some of the things that
they're talking about, like Cash Patel was saying that he wants to demolish, sorry, he
wants to gut the J. Edgar Hoover building and turn it into a museum to the deep state.

(12:31):
That's the current FBI director who said that.
That's crazy.
That's fucking nuts.
Now, is that going to happen?
I don't know.
But I mean, it's crazy that we have like new people with fresh ideas in there.
And maybe, maybe I'm hope I'm dreaming a little dream of like some optimism today.
I'm riding the vibe wave of like maybe we'll get some meaningful change.

(12:52):
Maybe.
Maybe I'm just still young enough and naive enough to believe that, but maybe, you know?
I mean, there's like another, there's like another reality where like the like Trump
was shot in the head because he didn't turn around in a weird fucking way.
Like there's like another reality where that happened.

(13:12):
And like, so we get Harris and like we go like full communist wokeism.
And there's like, you know, like a rainbow parade of debauchery that like happens at
the inauguration and we go in that direction.
So I'm really fucking grateful about that.
With that being said, like, man, like Trump launching his own shitcoin two days before.

(13:34):
I mean, like that.
Like, I like, I got a hand it to him, man.
Like, like this, everyone knew he was going to do something like that.
But like, he really raised the bar there.
And what can I say, everybody piled in and now like this accelerates the agenda quite
dramatically in my opinion, because like this, I think you were saying, Junes pointed out

(13:56):
that like, if you believe that the individual has to shitcoin first and like the nation
state does too, then frankly, like fiat is shitcoining.
So like all of this makes sense.
But also when the, when the message is finally delivered of like, all right, fuck it, like
anybody can issue any token for any reason at any point in time and value it at whatever
they want.
Well, like now everybody just shoves their fucking hand in the cookie jar.

(14:17):
It's just a general fucking crime.
And now people actually actually have to figure out like what shitcoining is comparatively
to like all of the other garbage that there is in the universe and actually go, oh, huh,
this like Bitcoin thing with like the 21 million and like the proof of work thingy.
And like, huh, it's almost like these guys have figured it out.
And if you would have just watched Walker's podcast the last time we were on and did what

(14:41):
we fucking told you, you're gonna double the money again, but you're too fucking stupid
to do it.
So we'll do this again, fucking 220 and we'll revisit the same point and most people will
still wouldn't have fucking done it.
Like I'm just, I'm angry at this point that so many people have came to me in my life
like, well, should I buy some XRP and I'm like, yeah, if you want to, like it goes up and

(15:07):
it goes down and like you can make money doing that.
It'll probably go down when you do it and then you'll panic and sell it, but it could
go up and you could make money and then you're a fucking genius, right?
Or you could not worry about all this and like look at what Bitcoin is and do your little
bit of fucking homework and then you actually like have some savings.
But you won't do that because reading is hard and there's like big words that intimidate

(15:30):
you and upset you.
And instead of you like looking that up with Google, you just go, I don't know what to
do.
I'm gonna go listen to what that retard on MSNBC tells me to buy.
And I'm sorry, I'm just like fucking angry about it at this point in time.
Cause like you have a mind and like you can think and like other people telling you stuff

(15:51):
isn't thinking like that's something else.
It's the same way like when, when like shit just bubbles up in your mind, like that's
that's not thinking that that's like a thought and these things are different from each other.
Oh, sorry.
So that's my fucking rant for today.
You know, I don't think, I was thinking about this recently that I don't think the average
person who has no history with meditation or mindfulness or whatever understands that

(16:19):
your thoughts are kind of like a Tinder app that you can swipe left or swipe right on.
Like I don't think they really get that, that you can disconnect from your thoughts and
that you are not your thoughts.
You are the observer of your thoughts and then you go a lover deeper and you're not even
the observer of your thoughts.
Right.
Like, but I think the average American has no clue and they're trying to like, they're

(16:43):
trying to deadwreck in their way through reality by paying attention to shadows on the wall
and like the Play-Dohs cave sense of like the mainstream media.
Right.
And I saw this, this thing today and it was the same picture of Michael Saylor, an article
from 2022 and an article from 2025.
And the headline on the 2022 article was Michael Saylor bet big on Bitcoin and lost billions

(17:05):
or whatever.
And then the 2025 article was Michael Saylor's big bet on Bitcoin and how he's making billions.
And they're the same picture.
They're effectively the same article with completely bipolar and opposite outcomes.
And so if you're a normie trying to, you know, figure out reality by watching these
shadows on the wall, you are going to just constantly be coming to the wrong conclusion

(17:28):
at the wrong time because you'll be cycling through opposite conclusions like this.
It was like masks or no masks during COVID.
Like, like you talk to somebody in whatever January of COVID or February of COVID and
they would have been like, well, masks, masks actually don't do anything and you don't actually
need a mask and COVID is just like the flu.
And then you would talk to that same person two months later and they would be like, you're

(17:50):
not wearing a mask.
Are you trying to kill me?
You know, and it's like the media had just put this idea in their head and they just
believed it whole clock.
But I don't understand it personally, but it seems to be comforting to a lot of people
to do what the television tells them to do.
Or they're not.
It's easier than thinking for yourself, right?

(18:10):
Like that's what it comes down to is like convenience.
No, go ahead, Jason.
I was just going to say it's funny because like, like my partner was like eight months
pregnant when COVID hit.
So I was like keyed up and like we're like wearing the mask and the grocery store in
January when nobody else was.
And like people would give you like the weird looks and shit.
And then like in like a two week timeframe, everybody else had their mask on.

(18:31):
And that's what I was like, whoa, hang on, like what the fuck is going on?
Like I need to, I need to like look into this a little bit more.
And it was just, I don't know, like I'm again with like the cycling between this like nihilism
and hope being hopeful.
Like the nihilistic part is like, I'm just like really disturbed at how like how many

(18:53):
of these conversations I've had with people about Bitcoin and like how like rudimentary
stupid their outlook is and like that the complete incapacity they have to assemble
an original thought.
And it's just, it's fucking disturbing to me.
And like to be fair, this is usually from the older generation who like, I'm of the

(19:16):
opinion, the indoctrination and propaganda that they've gone through is just so deep
and infectious.
But like it, it's like a gang of rotten their brain at this point, like there's no way
to get it out.
And so like I don't know what to do.
And it's really frustrating because at the same time, you know, like the way that we
mean this from, you know, just being like nerd internet drug money until like actually

(19:38):
being like a world class asset that that's going to defeat fiat money.
Like, I don't know, I just, I'm realizing that like it actually does come down to us
and I'm kind of pissed off about that.
Because like, I didn't sign up for this.
And I'm like really angry that the actual adults in the room turn out like aren't adults

(20:01):
at all and are actually like whiny little cry babies that are fucking spineless and
in separate little feeds.
And that's really upsetting to learn how true that is all the way through.
So I'm pretty mad about that.
And I hope that will actually do something.
The other nice thing is like what this whole Trump thing like, we absolutely cozyed up
the establishment, like made an alliance with them.

(20:23):
That's been really meaningful and powerful.
But I hope like as this goes on, we'll be like, oh, like these retards like help get
us in.
And like now it's time to like night of a long night of these motherfuckers and like
move on.
Yeah.
Now, I think it's like the Republicans can't listen.
I mean, the communists had to be defeated.

(20:44):
That was like step one.
Like we have to read ourselves of that because that is like we are so close to the precipice
of destruction there.
And now it's back to the regular graft of the American Republic and the Republicans
will remind you so quickly how much they love being used car salesmen grifters.
And they're like, buy Trump coin, buy Melania coin, buy Baron coin, buy Eric Jr coin, buy

(21:08):
Tiffany Trump coin, buy a bunch.
It's just all the coins.
And they're like, what do you mean?
What could be wrong with this?
At least they do it out in the open.
But they're like, yeah, I'm shit-coining.
Who's not shit-coining, right?
It's American dream, baby.
The liberals are smart enough to hide their their their theft.
But the Republicans are like, it's great.
I do.

(21:29):
But that's not even smart at this point in time.
Like that just goes to show how much more of disgusting fucking criminals.
Like the fact that Elizabeth Warren has the audacity to talk about like the financial crimes
of crypto and shit.
Well, she's literally being paid off by the banks and she got an office by playing this
whole thing that like, I'm the one that'll stand up to the big banks.

(21:50):
Like it's it's so fucking gross.
And then the fact that liberals actually mouth that piece with it, it's just like, look guys,
like I get you want like warm fuzzy values that feel really fucking nice.
But like the the the complete lack of thinking any of this through is just really disgusting.
And like that's the place that like I align a lot with liberals on a lot of the ideals

(22:15):
and hopes that they want.
I totally divert from them and realizing how much that's a pipe dream fantasy that doesn't
actually work in reality.
It's the same reason why like I was a socialist when I was young and I realized like I was
just naive.
And like as much because like I just really felt like we just elect the right people.

(22:36):
It'll happen.
And it's like the system is designed to fucking corrupt you.
Like that's how it works, man.
And as much as I really want everybody to be equal all the time and get all the fun stuff
and all this kind of equal rights, like that's just that's just not how it works.
There are some people that are fucking stupid and make really bad decisions with their life.
Like I shouldn't bail those people out.
I'm sorry.

(22:56):
That's just what that comes down to.
It's it's the majority of people are are like pretty dumb, like on a relative basis.
I believe intelligence probably follows Fibonacci like and per it like the 80 20 is just like
a rounding of Fibonacci, right?
Like it's like 79 20, like it's 21, you know, instead of 20.
But like I think it's probably safe to say that there's like at a maximum 21% of people

(23:20):
and saying that's like a hard maximum, like very generous that are like high agency people.
Like like I'm not saying ultra high, but like pretty high agency, like not a complete
NPC.
But I think like that other, you know, 79% is like, like just does not actually necessarily
I'm not saying they're bad people or that they're like complete fucking morons.

(23:43):
But like a lot of it comes down to agency.
Like do you have the actual drive to make your own fucking decisions and to realize that
like if you're being spoon fed something, that's not your idea just because you could
do what you were saying earlier case and just because you can like repeat something that
you saw like that that's that's not actually a thought like that's not thinking that's
just literally regurgitating you are you are a parrot like you are literally a parrot.

(24:05):
Well, this shit all co-morbidates with a bunch of other stuff too.
And so like it's like you get punished for having agency you get like you get punished
for thinking originally you get punished for trying things that don't work.
And so like all of this co-morbidates in a way that like it's not just about thinking
but it's like the the risk and the fear of social rejection and all the shit that goes
into that.

(24:26):
Sorry, you go ahead Paul.
Oh, no, no, I totally agree with what you're saying.
And I think that basically like that that belief in agency that Walker was talking about
is probably the number one defining characteristic of people who are normies or who are are not
normies.
So if you are a quote, normie, you're in the 80% of people that basically don't believe

(24:46):
that human agency is the driver that moves the world.
And if you're a non normie, you're a person who's high agency or who at least believes
in high agency, who believes that human action is the thing that drives the world, right?
There's this thing about like Bitcoin that, you know, we say Bitcoin is inevitable and
people think that just means like the sum of emerald concept of like there's a, you

(25:08):
know, destiny to the universe or something.
No, it's inevitable because human action causes it to be inevitable because humans go to go
to work for the benefit of the Bitcoin system rather than attempting to attack the Bitcoin
system.
So it's game theoretically perfect in that way.
That's why it's inevitable because we all get off our ass and we go to work for Bitcoin

(25:28):
and every like order of magnitude that Bitcoin increases in price, it unlocks a new wave
of people that go to work for it, right?
So I think that like, if you don't have a belief in your own agency, then you're going
to be more susceptible to listening to the thoughts, prescriptions, ideas, rules, mores,
whatever of others who seem sort of vaguely authoritative.

(25:52):
Whereas if you do believe you have high agency, you go, why the fuck would I let that guy
tell me what to do when I can do my own shit?
You know, it's that simple.
It honestly blows my mind that there are Bitcoiners out there who are not on Noster yet.
Seriously, what are you doing?
Just like you shouldn't need to ask permission to use your money, you shouldn't need to
ask permission to speak freely, but that is exactly what you are doing if you are still

(26:15):
stuck on centralized social media platforms.
On Noster, you can't be censored, you can't be banned, and you can't be deboosted for
saying words Elon Musk doesn't like.
Plus, the vibes are just better, and there's nowhere else you can end up having a casual
conversation with the likes of Jack Dorsey or Lynn Alden.

(26:36):
Noster also has Bitcoin payments built in, so when you post a meme, a hot take, or a
photo of your stake, people will zap you Bitcoin to show you they like it and value what you
posted.
You can find me on Noster by going to primal.net-slash-walker, and you can check out this podcast on Noster
at primal.net-slash-titcoin.

(26:58):
Primal also has a built-in Bitcoin wallet, so you can literally get zapped by people
for your posts, then use those sats to, I don't know, buy a coffee and do it all from
the same app.
Search for primal in the app store, go to primal.net, or check out any of the hundreds
of other Noster apps out there.
You can freely switch between them all whenever you want.

(27:20):
So come join the largest Bitcoin circular community in the world and start zapping sats
on Noster.
Well, and I'll loop this back around in the opposite direction, that in and of itself
is a destiny because you recognize amongst all of the NPCs out there that can't figure
out the world that are retarded and low self-agency people, there are actually other awakened

(27:43):
individuals that have an inter-worldly concept and a drive and meaning and purpose in the
world and that through connecting with them and understanding what Bitcoin is, that's
like this fusion mechanism that actually does bring about a destiny for this thing should
be successful because of the game's theoretics behind it.
And this goes all the way down to war theory itself, of that Bitcoin is literally a game

(28:07):
that I can prove to you that I can economically outperform you even if you're using a violent
system that's designed to extract through that violence.
And because we have this global collectivized system that needs energy for a high industry,
computational society that has general AI and shit, Bitcoin is actually fundamentally

(28:29):
superior to your warmongering violent society that wants to extract through fiat money and
other things.
And now we have all these insane Bitcoiners that, one of the wildest experiences of the
last two years for me is I had a hypothesis.
So I was like, Bitcoin is this actual spiritual thing that's awakening people in this really

(28:51):
radicalized way.
And I'm going to travel all over the world and just talk to people and just be like,
hi, I'm Eric.
Let's immediately dive into do you think Bitcoin is a spiritual tool of awakening?
And I had dozens, if not hundreds of people go, yeah, I had this really radical moment
of understanding and getting that this realigns human incentives for everybody and everywhere.

(29:13):
And then I changed my life and I just dove in and committed and now gave me all these
rewards and stuff and I'm doing all this shit I never expected in my life and it's fucking
wild.
And that's why I'm here.
It's for that thing.
And it's hilarious because that's about discovering value, right?
It turns out you valuing your time and your ability to save for yourself is the most valuable

(29:38):
thing that there is.
And it turns out that's actually a monetary object as well.
This sounds crazy to non-cult members, but we're amongst friends.
So I'll just say it.
I was just going to say, this sounds an awful lot like a cult.
Yeah.
But like a good cult.
In some non-trivial sense, I think that when I touched Bitcoin, I accidentally killed the

(29:59):
old me and now I'm a different person.
I don't relate to the old me at all.
I don't relate like 10 years ago before I got into Bitcoin.
I just don't relate to the way I thought and felt about the world.
And yeah, things happened in that time and I grew and matured and had children, became
a father, that was impactful, et cetera.
But to be honest, it was the Bitcoin thing that really reoriented my perspective in a

(30:26):
way that almost nothing else did.
I'm still deeply haunted by a lot of my pre-Bitcoin self.
It's like a weird fucked up, I don't know, provincial thing for me.
And I'm like walking my path, but each part of it's fucked up and weird and wild.

(30:48):
Like I'm totally here for it, but yeah, it's pretty crazy.
It's hard to tell my whole story directly to people and not feel like I'm being a fucking
crazy person.
I was just thinking like it's one of those like kind of cliched things, but I genuinely
believe this like as much as there are things in my past, like if I look back, I'm like,

(31:11):
well, yeah, that was fucking stupid.
Like, oh, you know, wish I wouldn't have done that.
I wish I wouldn't have done this.
If I could go back, I don't think I would change those things.
Like even though I like, hold on, I feel the same way.
Hodel, excuse me, I'm sorry again.
But because like that did bring me here to where I am today.
Like all of those fuck ups and all of that stupid stuff and that person who like you

(31:34):
said, how like it's difficult to even recognize that like that was the same person just because
of the transformation that you've had.
It's like, well, that, you know, that rebirth, like, you know, the, the Phoenix doesn't rise
from the ashes until it fucking burns down to nothing.
Right.
So like you, I think you, you almost need that.
I mean, maybe that like part of that is like that ego death, right?

(31:55):
Like realizing, oh, everything, maybe not everything, but most of the things I thought
that I had conviction about, I actually didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.
I actually wasn't even really thinking about a lot of these things that hard.
The decisions I was making, like, were they all my own?
Like you, I feel like a lot of Bitcoiners have gone through this where they start just

(32:16):
like questioning and again, it comes back to like value, right?
And you start to think, huh, like I view value and I view time and I view my place in this,
on this little rock of water, you know, in the middle of the fucking fast expanse of nothingness.
I viewed it in a different way now.
And like the thing is like, I, I don't know.

(32:37):
Like there's, of course there's probably cases of it, but like most people, it seems don't
go back from that.
Like you don't somehow revert back to that prior state.
Like once you have like, it is like an ego death.
Like you kill that off and then it's like, you're kind of there.
Like you flipped a light switch, you ripped it out of the wall and the lights just on
forever now.
Like you can't, you can't go back into the dark.

(32:57):
Maybe some do.
I don't know, but like from my experience with Bitcoiners, that has not been the case.
I don't know.
Like if you guys have, maybe you can tell me an exception that, that proves the rule,
but yeah.
Now nobody ever, nobody ever leaves Bitcoin.
It's funny cause I was thinking earlier about like the way that we've like mean this into
existence, like at early Coinbase, like I like most of those people like went off to launch

(33:22):
their own shitcoin projects.
And we would like have these intense debates in the cafeteria about like the ethical, moral
and sociological consequences of like shitcoining and like what that was and like why that coin
was fundamentally superior to this shit.
And it was interesting cause they'd like get up to the boundary of kind of like looking
at that and being like, no, no, like there, like, there's any, like any of these different

(33:46):
crypto projects could be like the thing that would like make it happen.
And there's, and like what's, what was unique about that is like that was before shitcoin
was even a concept.
And so like there was still this really deep radicalized naive hope that like all of these
projects could do like all of the shit it wanted to do.

(34:07):
But it was like pretty quick that like it became clear that like it was a gigantic fucking
graft and that like everyone was participating in it.
And I remember for me that was when I was like, oh shit, I was like, I know it's funny
cause like we're all talking about it one day and I was like, so like, like anybody
who's trading right, like you're, you're like trading back into Bitcoin.
Like that's, that's the asset.

(34:27):
And they're like, huh?
They're like, no, like we like want dollars.
And I was like, oh fuck, like we're not on the same team.
Are we?
Like you, you guys have like a different idea of what you want to do.
And they're like, yeah, like isn't that what we want?
And I was like, oh, okay.
Sorry guys.
Well, that's kind of the wild thing that I think like this moment that we're at right

(34:50):
now feels like like the, the gloves mask, whatever it's off now where like that's if
I was to pick out a bright spot of this Trump Melania coin and subsequent family member coins,
I'm sure it launched.
It's that it's like, they're not even calling it a coin or a token.
It's just like, this is just a meme.
And I'm sure that their lawyers were very clear about that.

(35:10):
They're like, you just don't call it a token.
This is not an investable asset.
Like it's just a meme that people pay for and then can trade, but it's not a token or
a coin, but like nobody's trying to claim there's any utility here.
Nobody's trying to, you know, like my utility, like this isn't blockchain innovation.
This is just a, this is a shit coin launched on Solana.

(35:30):
Like, like nobody's trying to say like, yeah, I think that, you know, I think Melania's
coin is going to be the next Bitcoin.
It's like, no, like this is just, it is what it is.
You know, not, not a great look, but like it's not trying to be anything that it's not.
At least there's that.
Like I'm trying to find some bright spot here because I saw this and I was just like, wow,

(35:51):
like what a fascinating timeline we live in where like, and the launch of Melania, like
kind of tanking the price of the Trump coin a little bit.
Like, I don't know, it's almost beautiful to watch.
Like just so much grift bottled up in this, but like in your face, grift, at least not
trying to be like, yeah, well, actually we think that, you know, this is a pretty innovative
project which has a lot of potential utility down the road for cross-border payments and

(36:14):
it might unseat Bitcoin actually and it'll be used by central banks.
Like no, I mean, it's just a grift.
Like this is incredible in my opinion of that.
Like this is like the ICO smoke screen all over again.
And like we literally have the Trojans like pulling the horse into Troy.
Like, like we won the war.

(36:35):
Like this is great.
We like everybody can have crypto and like it's a massive fucking party.
Everybody's getting shit-faced drunk, like trading tokens.
People are making tens of million dollars off of these absolutely ass-on-ine pieces
of shit.
And like when all the smoke clears and everybody's hungover and totally fucked up, like now

(36:56):
Odysseus comes out of the horse and now you realize like how much you guys actually fucked
up.
Like this puts Bitcoin front and center of everything so fucking hardcore.
Like somebody pointed out like now we have just like open anybody can print token for
anything for any reason.
And even more importantly, like, and I think Rizzo pointed this on what Bitcoin did was

(37:19):
that like everything except Bitcoin has came to its inevitable conclusion of that like
they're not even gunning for Bitcoin anymore.
Like they're fighting amongst themselves to be like the shit coin like printing chain.
Yeah.
And like that's so important for the ultimate goal that Bitcoin has.
And what I think is funny is that like a bunch of people seem to think that like there's

(37:40):
a pathway that we get.
How do I say this?
Like to me, it's very clear that everybody now has to go through the logical concourse
of understanding that like Bitcoin is the premier and final asset that you want.
And like that destroys the dollar unequivocally.
Like you won't be able to make people hold on to dollars any longer without that fundamentally

(38:02):
getting backed by Bitcoin directly.
Like it doesn't matter if there's a strategic reserve, if it's not pegged to the dollar,
like people will be smart enough to figure out, Oh, the US government's literally holding
Bitcoin because they don't believe in their own fucking currency.
So I need Bitcoin.
And the only way they're going to prevent that is if they actually peg treasuries to
the dollar, which would like in my opinion, that's great.

(38:25):
Like the the bullshit of USDT and USDC coin like that.
All that is is just fucking CBDC 2.0.
But like if we actually get a treasury pegged to the dollar, that could get fucking weird.
I think of it in terms of like, I call it the X, right?
So there's like this X where fiat is ascending up or sorry, Bitcoin is ascending up one

(38:49):
side and fiat is descending down.
And there is an inflection point in the middle.
And if you're in before, you know, you're writing Bitcoin up, obviously going to do
very well.
If you're writing fiat down and you get to the inflection point, you can still switch
over and be okay.
But if the inflection point crosses, if you cross the inflection point and you continue

(39:11):
to write it down, so you don't make the change over, you're going to get fucking destroyed.
And I think that the interesting thing is like, when does this inflection point happen?
And you could call it, I was having a little bit of a debate with Giovanni, the power, one
of the power law guys.
And you know, basically the power law guys believe that there's this sort of like, you
know, I don't want to like put words in their mouth and misrepresent power law because I

(39:33):
don't fully understand it, but it's a gradual transition to, you know, these much higher
Bitcoin prices.
And I don't really believe in that.
I believe in this inflection point or something that looks much more like a phase transition
where you can think of it as like the moment that, you know, water becomes ice.
It happens like the molecules in the water are building up energy and then boom, they

(39:54):
rapidly become ice.
And I think that the Bitcoin thing is going to happen in a manner that is that is that
quick.
And so doing the work now and preparing yourself, obviously you have a tremendous advantage
because when the, when you do cross that X, when you get to that inflection point, you're
going to be well advantaged to take, you know, take the opportunity and really get the most

(40:14):
out of it.
If you're on the, if you're up here on fiat and you're writing it down, but you still
have some sort of a premier asset or something you own a company like Google or, you know,
Apple, like you're going to be okay because you can just, when you reach the X, you can
say, okay, everybody start paying us in Bitcoin and set a dollars.
Boom.
Done.
But, you know, the incentive, if you're, you know, low on the totem pole, like in terms

(40:38):
of like, are you one of the losers of the fiat game?
The answer is for almost everybody, the answer is yes.
So if you are one of the losers of the fiat game and you're, you know, on, you're writing
the X down this way, you're just going to be an even bigger loser in the future.
The only move you have available to you now is to switch sides and come to the Bitcoin

(40:58):
side and start writing Bitcoin up before the inflection point happens.
It's only the biggest winners in the fiat system who are going to be able to maintain
and even then only if they treat the inflection point appropriately.
And a bunch won't.
Like a bunch of will ride or die fiat to absolute death and it's going to be, it's going to
be hilarious.

(41:19):
So like this, in my opinion, like right now is the greatest.
Greatest opportunity there has ever been for the general losers to actually give themselves
a shot.
Like I, again, like I go back to thinking about like some very close friends of mine
who, you know, like a decade ago, like I implored them, I was like, like just spend the fucking
$200 and like get a couple Bitcoin.

(41:40):
Like that'll make all the difference in the future.
Just like fucking do it.
And they're like, I don't know, like I could, I could get dinner tomorrow night with a couple
friends and it's just like, like that was, it's literally a year's salary.
And so like you tell people that they're like, the boat's gone.
Like can't ever, no, it's not gone.
And you know why?
Cause like the fixed supply of Bitcoin and how this operates, like it has nothing to

(42:02):
do with humans.
And like our little fucking monkey brains that like can't understand the markets well enough.
Like that's the thing that panics and sells and shit.
And that's why Bitcoin will continue to gain in the way it will.
And just like Adele pointed out that like us getting up to like a 2 million Bitcoin is
not like a new cycle.
Like this is just Bitcoin doing what it is normally done in its general four year cycles.

(42:28):
And so when that happens, like people are going to really freak out and think that there's
something different going on and it's not.
And furthermore, Bitcoin will continue to match the same fucking trajectory it has done.
And again, because like it has nothing to do with people.
Like the way that that market operates is because we know and understand how the happening

(42:50):
works.
We understand how the block, like how each new block is produced and that has nothing
to do with our tiny little fucking ape minds.
So I really implore you like, and the big difference between today and four years ago
is that like, it's not clear Bitcoin is not going away.
It is clear that nation states are going to start battling each other to figure out how
the fuck do they figure out this new system.

(43:12):
And it's not to say that like it won't necessarily get captured, but like in terms of it being
an asset, it is not going anywhere.
And that's really fucking important.
Even Bitcoin's biggest haters believe it has tremendous value now.
So like if you offered a thousand dollars in Bitcoin to somebody, there's not a person

(43:32):
on earth who would turn you down.
Like everybody knows what Bitcoin is and they know it has value.
They know it's worth something.
That's a big sea change from just a few years ago where if you offered somebody a thousand
bucks in Bitcoin, they'd be like, Bitcoin's fake money.
It is, it is wild because it, I think first of all, uh, case and I agree with the monkey

(43:58):
brain thing.
Like I still like, I feel that I, you know, I mean, I don't fucking understand Bitcoin,
but I try to understand Bitcoin.
And I still like sometimes find myself falling into some like stupid fiat brain trap of not
like, like, like occasionally for just a second, I'll like kind of forget that I own this thing
that is literally beyond our comprehension in terms of what it is going to do.

(44:21):
Like there just hasn't been anything that has ever existed like this.
It is a full paradigm shift.
It is like absolute scarcity.
And we're just, we're not programmed to be able to understand that.
And it's like, even though I know that every four years, the new issuance is cut in half
and there's what like not, you know, 6% of the total supply left for the next 120 years

(44:43):
that is going to be, you know, meet it out in smaller and smaller chunks.
And you know, if you look at the price, it's like, well, huh, like six months after every
having things start going fucking wild and it does it every time.
And then they go really wild and maybe a little bit too wild, but it's, there is no too wild.
It's just the market, right?
And then they crash back down a little bit, but it's still way fucking higher than it

(45:06):
was.
And it happens again and again, and it's not going to stop happening.
Like this idea that like, even if whatever if you subscribe to like the, well, there's
going to be these diminishing returns, like that's still just all relative.
Like I mean, okay, the, you know, like the compound annual growth rate decreased by a
whole 3%.
It's like, like it doesn't matter.
And we're still pricing things from our current, like we haven't even begun to see the real

(45:29):
inflation yet of the fiat system.
Like every little bubble of hyperinflation, that's like, that's just like a test case.
It's a little canary letting us know what it's going to be like fucking everywhere.
Well, and this goes back to like what Sailor said so long ago, like all, all, like all
your models are destroyed.
Like every single model that's trying to like figure this thing out comes from the shit

(45:50):
fiat currency based economic system where everything has a denominator that can get
infinite in some way.
And so like your models literally cannot accommodate for this new thing.
And also like I'm constantly blown away that like every time I try to zoom out and think
about how important or big or any of this stuff is, like I can never quite get my hands

(46:15):
all the way around how big it is.
And it's funny because like I feel like I'm probably the most sort of extreme of people
in that way.
And even in regards to that, like I, I still don't see how big it is.
And like that's ultimately why like, what is it?
Like a cult is a failed religion, but like a religion is like a successful cult, if you
will.

(46:35):
Like that's eventually where we get to.
And for them, we're like, I don't know, like I very sincerely think like in 2050 people
will be like, like people will have some general idea of how economics works.
Unlike us, like it's, it's fucking mind blowing at like, I know people have PhDs in economics
and like they don't even know the most rudimentary Austrian economic ideals, which is because

(46:59):
economics today is fundamentally a form of propaganda where they start with like these
authoritarian ideals that replace the actual truth that is contained in economic ideals.
It's fucking crazy.
The best part about Bitcoin is it doesn't care if you're Donald Trump, a humble pleb,

(47:20):
a company or a country, we all get the same rules.
And one of the rules is you controls the private keys, controls the coins.
So keep your coins safe by going to bitbox.swiss slash Walker and using the promo code Walker
for 5% off the fully open source Bitcoin only bitboxo to hardware wallet.

(47:41):
Then get your Bitcoin off the exchange and into your own self custody.
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So now is the perfect time to make sure you have your security locked down tight with
Bitbox plus and I can't emphasize this enough the bitboxo to is truly easy as hell to use

(48:04):
whether you're brand new to Bitcoin.
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No need to trust me when you go to bitbox.swiss slash Walker and use the promo code Walker.
Not only do you get 5% off but you also help support this podcast.

(48:27):
So thank you.
I was having this conversation with a friend about how basically the germination of the
conversation was like about how modern day pagans I don't know if you've seen these you
know these guys like bronze age pervert or whatever on Twitter and there's a bunch of
different accounts like that are like kind of claiming like hey fuck Christianity bro
let's go back to like Viking shit let's like believe in Ragnarok and stuff and then like

(48:50):
we'll have even better outcomes we'll have like a fucking war and like you know create
the West again and like you know bring Europe back from the brink of destruction whatever
and it's like an interesting idea and whatever but the thing about it is most of these guys
are just atheists and nobody actually believes in like to be a modern person who believes
in like Ragnarok you have to be a fucking retard.

(49:10):
So basically there's this thing called rootinization which is like if you live in a Christian society
at for example or a Muslim society how many people actually believe in the Muslim God
how many people actually believe that Jesus Christ came back from the dead and was resurrected.

(49:32):
The amount of rootinization in a culture leads to the reification of the belief structure
and so you know sometimes I'm bringing this all back to Bitcoin but like sometimes on
Twitter we think to ourselves like there are all these like seemingly insane autistic
people who you know like Trump says he's gonna free Ross on day one and it doesn't literally
happen on day one and these people are like oh fucking kill you burn down the whole fucking

(49:56):
state fuck you said day one bitch you said fucking day one right and the rest of us who
don't have Asperger's we look at them and we go what's wrong are you okay what's going
on man do you need medication but those people are fully rootinized in the Bitcoin belief

(50:19):
structure they are true believers in Bitcoin and they are super important I'm making fun
of them but they're super important and the reason they're super important is because
the amount of rootinization within a belief structure leads to the reification of that
belief structure and so when you look at something like Bitcoin I'm not saying it's gonna become
a religion and displace Christianity or anything like that I'm just saying that it's an extremely

(50:40):
powerful human belief structure which is going from the process of rootinization to reification
and we're able to watch that clearly happen over time and when you see something that's
that powerful they come along very infrequently in human culture actually we think that they're
they're more they're more frequently occurring than they are because people believe a lot

(51:03):
of garbage and we think well people are rootinized about all sorts of stupid shit but the truth
is nobody's actually like gunned to their head they don't actually believe those things
but there are a bunch of Bitcoiners that you said give me it's your Bitcoin or your life
and they would say take my life I mean that's a real thing we all know those guys those
guys are important you need that right like you like you you kind of necessarily must

(51:30):
have that is there something about Bitcoin that lends itself to more of that or do you
think like there is the same general proportion of that kind of I don't know like fundamentalism
you know that you would see in any sort of movement or because this one is this different
you know what I mean you talk to like a you you've all know a Harari who's a fucking gimp

(51:52):
for the weft they keep him in the back of the weft and a gimp suit and they bring him
out if you talk to somebody like that he'll say that you know like humans are we're storytelling
monkeys and we organize ourselves via fictions and so you know these fictions are just very
powerful because they've caught on at scale and that's how we organize and that's why

(52:14):
they work and blah blah blah and I think that that's bullshit and I don't think that humans
organize themselves around shared fictions I think humans organize themselves around
stories yes but stories about shared recognition stories about things that are true so Bitcoin
is true that's why people are organizing themselves around it really is pretty much that simple

(52:35):
and then the process it has all this color and flourish and it's very interesting to
watch play out and be a part of and that's why we're here every day is because there's
nothing else quite as interesting happening on earth at the current moment and if there
is probably that new thing that's more interesting like if a gi becomes a real thing that will
probably take more my attention than Bitcoin will but at the moment Bitcoin is the most

(52:55):
exciting story on earth one and like that encounter with truth in our current world
structure because like it like it is a nihilistic hellhole out there right now and it's it's
super fucking dark and like it's so dark that like that's why you have so much atheism and
this like fucked up woke ism and like the like those people that you bring up like

(53:17):
if you're like well like what do you think about God though like they'll kind of you
know snicker and lab you're so deep in that fucking darkness that like you're literally
incapable of thinking or believing that like maybe there is some other unifying structure

(53:39):
to like the entire existence of what it means to be a human and like how we interpret the
world and to me like that's all that God is it's like it's just like infinite unifying
structure that's like part of the ever unfolding mystery that like as these little like monkeys
that are graduating into a higher level of consciousness like that's fundamentally like
what this higher sense of being is is like figuring out what that secret is and connecting

(54:03):
to that and like having this conscious experience that like awakens and enlightens us to go
like whoa they're like is this bigger thing in the universe that like I can participate
and be part of and like see and understand and discover and like that awakens something
very special inside of me and I can recognize that and others and they can recognize me
and like that shared purpose and sense and meaning is all like this alignment thing that

(54:27):
helps like make the entirety of humanity better and like gets us farther along and that's
like against like our WF Gimp friend who's like no like still all just like nihilistic
nonsense and like we can make up whatever stories we want like that that's actually fundamentally
fucking evil and it's pretty interesting because if you approach him about evil again he'd

(54:47):
be like like human stories and this is what Hannah I didn't point it out in Eichmann
and Jerusalem she's like we're literally talking to a man that helped participate in the deaths
of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people and like he can't fucking connect the
point that like this is a question to him directly and like so the question when we

(55:08):
encounter evil isn't about like what what do we do about them it's like what do we
do in response to them and I think that's what such a big deal about Bitcoin is because
when you encounter this truth and then you look out in this world and they're like oh
Bitcoin's bullshit you should buy you know buy shit coin by Trump coin whatever the question
is isn't like well no like we have to stop them from shitcoining it's like oh fuck like

(55:33):
am I am I also going to do that is that is that the world that I want to produce we're
like I can't even see what's fucking going on or am I going to make a choice to actually
pursue a choice towards something that I believe is meaningful and other people see it as meaningful
and as far as I can tell by doing the work none of us can control or fuck with this thing

(55:53):
in a meaningful way that could destroy it so huh maybe that's actually the thing that
gets us out of this nihilistic fucking hellhole and to me like now that we've encountered
all of these other people that seem to actually really get it on like a pretty profound fucking
level like Bitcoin is inevitable and it's not inevitable because of you know the the

(56:16):
you know false sort of destiny ideal that happens but it's inevitable because now there
are truly awakened people who understand what the cost and what this gives us and like this
sort of magically allows for us to exercise ourselves from all of the fucked up circumstances
and very particularly like as Americans like I think that we more than any other peoples

(56:38):
have a very real destiny that's involved with this because like the like these aren't fucking
cccp values you know like the idea of what Bitcoin enables and the sort of free market
economic libertarian ideals no but that's like a deeply fucking American ideal and if we
can actually use this thing to not only fuck up the American political establishment we

(56:59):
can use that and push that out into the world to like fuck up all this other nonsense communism
that's going on that's a very real fucking danger to all of humanity you know like we
do not want the cccp becoming a major world player anymore so than it is now and like
we need to fucking contain that that fucking red dragon before it gets out of fucking hand

(57:19):
and it already is out of hand by the way Eric is using the like the verbiage like you know
fuck shit up smash it up like shake it up like which totally it does do that but I think
also it's just to me it's a very restorative movement technology philosophy like it gives
us back a lot of things that we lost and it's a restoration project right and it's it's

(57:43):
sort of an interesting thing too that we as millennials have like spent our life here
on this restoration project on money because I actually I was thinking about this recently
and I think that that is actually the core millennial calling is to find a restoration
project if even something trivial like you know beer socks right let's create the craft
brew movement okay now we have a bunch of cool beers that's cool like thank you hipsters

(58:07):
right we're like culture socks okay let's go back and reexamine like why our culture
is so shit or like the money socks okay let's go back and reexamine it like I think a lot
of like there was this like hundred years of centralization that occurred you know basically
since the Federal Reserve was put in we could get into a whole quite like quagmire there
but like I'll skip over it there's this period of a hundred years in of like increasing centralization

(58:32):
basically because of the central banking system and the millennial restorative project like
if millennials actually are going to be the hero generation or some subset of them are
going to be is to undo the last hundred years because the last hundred years were bullshit
you know I like that idea of kind of restoration of things because it does like something I've

(58:53):
just been thinking about is like like what what would the world look like like if just
like the Federal Reserve hadn't existed you know as an example like even just like we
can go more recent still before any of our times but like you know if Nixon hadn't finally
taken us that last final step off the gold standard like what what would you know would
we be living in a future where maybe there wasn't that dire need for Bitcoin to be created

(59:18):
like Satoshi didn't put all the pieces together because maybe the problem wasn't as acute
and so you know maybe in a way it's like we live like I'm very grateful to live at this
time because it's like man like we get to see the phase shift and we get like yeah a lot
of been a lot of fucked up stuff along the way but like at least we get to be here while

(59:40):
things are changing while there are actually tools available to us open source technologies
that actually allow us to have a fighting chance at like putting this bastard of a genie of
fiat degeneracy back in the bottle and then like I don't know incinerating I don't know
how you kill a genie because like if you you know but we can get into that later how to
dispose of a genie but the point being like man what a cool fucking thing that we get

(01:00:04):
to be around for this that we get to you know at least be near the place where this is all
taking place and like I mean hopefully things do get a heck of a lot better but I agree
also that like man this needs to be the antidote to the fucking communism streak to the red

(01:00:25):
wave of things that masquerades under like oh no but we'll do business with the west
and like we'll definitely steal all of your tech and then we'll sell it back to you and
so yeah we're actually kind of we're kind of capitalist here so like don't pay any
attention to us it's like fundamentally Bitcoin is anti authoritarian and anti centralization
and those both of those things just describe many of the most disgusting governments in

(01:00:48):
the world so like it is incompatible incompatible with those and it most closely aligns with
Western American ideals and so like that's a good thing like it is kind of incumbent
on America to be the first mover in that from a large geopolitical standpoint and let's
hope I also hodl I mean goddamn Trump didn't do the executive Bitcoin order in the first

(01:01:10):
hour and I'm gonna lose it just so you know I'm gonna lose it I'm gonna give him a month
to kind of get his shit together he is kind of like the most important person in the world
who's kind of busy with a lot of stuff why is he talking about Bitcoin right now right
now I want to cut him that slack but what hodl said is like this truly is a restoration

(01:01:31):
movement and part of that restoration is reconnecting literally to the enlightenment and understanding
that like the world isn't nihilistic nonsense like there is actually a greater and truer
purpose and what Bitcoin offers and all of this open source technology we're working
on like it not only does it rescue us from that but like there's no reason why this doesn't

(01:01:51):
become not even just a thousand year project but like this just becomes the rhino zone
of the like the whole of human history forever like however far out humanity can go and like
that's a fucking crazy idea because despite how powerful the machines get it seems very

(01:02:12):
clear from the math that's been done that like this cryptography is solid and should
last forever and it's very hard for us and our little fucking monkey minds to deal with
what that means and like to me I'm always just blown away at how powerful and sophisticated
cryptography is and the sort of what and how new it is you know like the like shot 256

(01:02:37):
was only made in what like 2004 or something and so like it's it's really important to
understand like how radical all of this is in the scheme of of human development and
the fact that we're just kind of standing at when all of this got brought together is
it's pretty amazing and powerful and is one of the reasons that like I sincerely do think

(01:02:58):
that we are at a phase shift moment in humanity on a total because of how powerful and unique
these tools are and the fact that like now cryptography is widely deployed and understood
as we're getting a GI like that because to me as far as I can tell like cryptography
is the only thing that we can use to actually meaningfully demarcate with with a GI you

(01:03:20):
know like that's going to become so fucking important in generalized key management when
there are rogue AI agents out there can absolutely hammer fuck people who don't understand what
key management is or how you how you should be utilizing it.
I think I want to go back to this this question that Walker asked a few minutes ago which was

(01:03:40):
the what would the world look like right and like I think when I think of like restoration
I think about my children and you know Bitcoin is this big global project that we hope to
leave to all humanity which includes our children our grandchildren and our great grandchildren
etc. and you know I think we're winning on that front I think we're going to win but
sometimes that's a little bit like too large it's too ephemeral and so when I think about

(01:04:05):
my own children I think about just showing them something whatever it is a community
you know restoration project you know a piece of land a business something that helps people
or something that beautifies the world in some way and just saying hey look at look at this
little corner of the world that that I made good for you you know and that it really

(01:04:26):
like brings it down to earth in that sense because I think when we think about like the
way the world could have been it's hard to know what we've lost out on it I think about
that John Lennon song working class hero where he goes you think you're so clever and classless
and free but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see and it's like we don't
know what we don't know what we missed out on how much wealth how much value was destroyed

(01:04:52):
by fiat currency and how much of that value could have been compounded into the future
and we're we're the we're supposed to be the inheritors of that wealth but we were basically
stiffed and so it was kind of us up to us to look around and say well how do we fix
it like the blockchain of humanity through an error and that doesn't happen in every

(01:05:13):
generation in fact you know you can go on for many generations without ever getting
an error but fiat is an error and we had to look take a good hard look around and say
how can we fix that so that we can kick start the the engine of global capitalism so that
we can push value into the future rather than extracting value from the future in order to
live for today because I don't the boomers had no compunction about doing that to us

(01:05:35):
but I personally find it to be a moral blight that I would ever do that to my children or
to global society's children right and so we want to push value into the future and
then we want to compound that value and what can the world be in a thousand years if we
have increased the global GDP by seven percent a year like the compounded rate of return

(01:05:59):
on that is insane and it literally gets us to like you know space utopia shit so to me
it's like that's the big idea and then the small idea of restoration is do what you can
where you are with what you have available to you and be able to show something to your
children that's meaningful don't don't have this baby boomer mindset of like well that's

(01:06:21):
just the way it is all right see you later kids right don't do that don't do that to
your kids pick yourself up by your bootstraps like I did when right things were you know
what I bought this house for two raspberries you don't have two raspberries so why don't
you get a job you know it's like Jesus I just don't understand how their heads are so far
up their own fucking asses in terms of like well like it blows my mind and like I have

(01:06:46):
a lot of tension with my parents because like I you know like I've obviously been involved
in talk about this and look like we can't really break through anywhere and it's just
it's such a struggle because I'm like at like how do you look at like my generation and
see that like nobody owns homes everybody's struggling that like it's just desperation
across the board and you're just like have nothing to do with that and it's funny because

(01:07:10):
like I very directly remember when I was younger like having a conversation in my early 20s
with my parents of them being like look like you you like can't change the world you just
like have to like do the little bit you can and like that's it and I just remember like
that was a strong break for all I was like fuck no all was like I fundamentally reject
that like we can all put our hands in the machine and like move it a fucking little bit and

(01:07:34):
like if you don't accept that like yeah you're gonna get whatever fucking nonsense it is
and that was one of the things that kind of had me go off on my own march and figure like
find my own journey without needing to turn back for their approval and I don't know like
I feel very similar to Hoddle and that like I it's so meaningful to me to make sure that

(01:07:55):
I leave things for my children so that they look back at me and they go like dad did some
shit right you know like like I live out here in the middle of the woods and like one of
the things I'm committed to is like keeping this home that I have I have a beautiful orchard
like I I have four magnificent fucking sequoias that are probably like 120 feet tall on my
property that like that's just for us to have forever because of how fucking incredible

(01:08:18):
they are you know and it it's so meaningful to have that and also like I talked to my
son about you know because he's like you know where you travel in tune what you're doing
I'm like look like I could just hang out at home and live this great life with you but
I feel a greater meaning to explain to people and try to show them what this sort of wacky
philosophical ideal and belief I have about Bitcoin is and people seem to hear it and

(01:08:41):
want to hear more of it and like I feel strongly pulled towards trying to flesh all of that
out and I think it's like a lifelong project so it's gonna keep being what I do and he
like he gets it and it's pretty fucking cool and so I'm I'm excited watching him grow up
and instill these values and start interacting with it.

(01:09:02):
Do you think another thing I think about like forward looking is if we like if you know
if Bitcoin wins which I think like Bitcoin is winning but like whatever I don't I don't
want to get too technical about what Bitcoin winning looks like I think I think it looks
like this right now but like I don't know how like where that goes to do you think there's
ever a risk of like maybe maybe it's not our kids maybe it's the you know maybe it's our

(01:09:27):
grandkids maybe it's our great grandkids like the complacency of not remembering how bad
things were because life does improve so markedly and then you have a potential for some reversion
back to a prior state or does the long-term game theory of Bitcoin kind of just not incentivize

(01:09:50):
that sort of reversion do you know what I mean like like is there a chance of complacency
in future generations because they weren't around when the shit was like it is now they
weren't around for fiat just ruining everything.
I think certainly that there's a high chance of apathy and complacency both in for all
inheritors of systems.

(01:10:14):
I think you see that with the baby boomers who were the inheritors of the American institutions
that they ended up spearheading and we're sort of apathetic and careless in their stewardship
of those institutions and now we're facing this plethora of problems because of that
and I think that's a very human thing that Bitcoin doesn't get rid of but I will say
that Bitcoin is a ruthless game of efficient market capitalism and if you incorrectly economically

(01:10:42):
calculate the Bitcoin goes away from you and it doesn't come back to you so if you have
a family fortune of 6.15 Bitcoin in the future which is going to be a lot it's going to be
a whole lot and you own the entire state of Rhode Island or something well then you know
if your inheritors do a bad job managing that capital it's going to go away from them and
it's going to go to somebody else who's a more ruthless and efficient capitalist which

(01:11:06):
is you know on net a good thing.
The thing I worry about is like maybe if we're at some level where like permanent ossification
is not possible and then we have continual code upgrades and people get apathetic to
the like adversarial nature of Bitcoin and they start treating it more you know like
let's like tack our wish list on here and then you start getting these bastardization

(01:11:30):
like somebody you know basically a couple hundred years from now somebody comes along
and they're like 21 million was because Eric Kasin was a Nazi.
We should have 79 million.
You know like it's just like some weird argument right.
All these case nights here today I see you and I know you're on drugs first of all second

(01:11:50):
of all.
It's a secret practice.
Well my answer to your question Walker is that like I think like the turning cycle that
we go through is like the next great thing is going to be like all the apathy happens
when we've like hit the hash horizon and like Mars is well colonized and like the Martians

(01:12:12):
are fucking pissed that like they don't get to meaningfully participate in the Bitcoin
economy and that like they're fucked over just because they're outside of the hash horizon
and like it's going to be Drew Branzel's whole Mars coin theory playing out and it's going
to be about an you know an interstellar war between the Martians and Earth and that Earth
has gotten fat and lazy on the fact that like they have the Bitcoin standard and that everything

(01:12:34):
operates pretty smoothly and they get the extract resources not only from Mars but from
the belt and Mercury and other places and that like they just have a money that works
and so it's going to be pretty wild but like the yeah the other thing to appreciate is
that like the future is so wide because like we don't we have no understanding of how far

(01:12:55):
we've been set back and like the thing I'm more excited than anything about is like
unfucking the money unfucks a bunch of stuff and like unfucking the development of general
human thought and action is so important and like like one of the things that blows my
mind is thinking about air I forgot what podcast was on the air of Weinstein pointed out who
was like if I had ten million dollars just to do development around physics he was like

(01:13:18):
I guarantee I'd be making breakthroughs within three to five years and like we've lost out
on that in so many places I've been looking at like early aeronautics experiments and
it was like it was literally bicycle mechanics that just like kept pushing themselves forward
that became the first dudes to make planes and start flying them and like you can't

(01:13:39):
do any of that shit today because of the regulatory environment and like what if people are able
to just like fuck around with rocketry and rail cannons and all kinds of shit and I think
when we get back to a Bitcoin standard the way that logic will start actually pushing
itself to the forefront of all forms of development is really going to break out all kinds of

(01:14:01):
shit and that's so exciting to me not to mention like geographically how different is the world
going to get distributed now that like we can just develop energy infrastructure fucking
anywhere so like I like there's no reason that like the interior of Alaska doesn't have
megalopolis or you know that that out in Sierra de Fuego there isn't like new archeological

(01:14:23):
developments that are going like there's all kinds of shit to be done and it's really fucking
exciting particularly if you're coming in from like nihilistic darkness hopeless fiat
land and so like it I don't know that this is the place that I feel really good about
it and it's great to talk with you guys because like you go back out into Norming land like
particularly here in fucking liberal topia and they're like I'm not sure you guys might

(01:14:49):
hear in the background it sounds like seals but it's actually just the wailing of liberals
Ross Stevens had a great example of like a you know you can think of a rural waterfall
in Africa somewhere that has you know there's no reason for anybody to go there but if you
put hydropower there and you start running a Bitcoin mine there suddenly you have a you

(01:15:10):
have an energy resource and then yeah you're uploading to Starlink or whatever and then
you have a town that forms around this energy resource and suddenly it's like you know a
couple hundred years on in the future like Eric said you have a megalopolis in the middle
of rural Africa where this water source was you know where before there was nothing so
there's all these untapped resources that we haven't even gotten to yet but but Bitcoin

(01:15:32):
waste energy I saw that green people oh just the fucking retards with like not and then
I'm like oh wow you're like an expert in energy policy like what do you think we should do
with negatively priced energy and they're like huh but what I'm like oh like I with
you having such strong opinions about Bitcoin and knowing how it was energy I thought maybe

(01:15:55):
you knew something about how energy markets function but you don't do you should shut
the fuck up and do some before you have an opinion about this shit oh it just pisses
me off like you can read and like put that together why don't you do that oh because
you like being poor and being a slave because easier than needing to fucking make real decisions

(01:16:18):
about your life and taking risks on things that's like the embarrassing truth is like
most people are too fucking afraid to ever take a chance on anything like that's the
one that really pisses me off is I give people all the homework they get close to it and
they're like I don't know it like seems like a big risk and I'm like you drove your fucking
car here and you trusted all the other shitheads on the road not to drive directly into you

(01:16:44):
like that's a risk in and of itself dipshit life is a risk fucking take it or be the goddamn
slave they've designed you to be but I'm sure we both know you already made that fucking
decision or had it made for you more accurately sorry I'm I'm I'm in a bad mood this is a
safe space you got like again not the bullshit kind of safe space that the whaling seal liberals

(01:17:08):
behind you would like it's like like a real one where you can rant freely yeah okay this
is just slightly sidebar do you think we're fucking done are we at the point now where
we can be done with the Bitcoin waste waste energy thing because of like now you at least
are starting to see some like literature come around or do you think it's just still gonna
like recycle every time yeah I mean there will be people who are always upset about

(01:17:31):
it I think the most cover we have from it is actually not intrinsic to Bitcoin but
is the AI thing because AI is using a fucking ass fuck ton of energy and you know if AI
is allowed to use an ass fuck ton of energy then so are we goddamn it's like I mean it's
a pretty easy it was always stupid by the way and it's they by the way they they hit

(01:17:52):
every new technology with the energy argument so email had to run the energy argument when
it first was you know being popularized in the early 90s and people were saying well
it's use it uses so much more energy than the post office to send a single email why
would you do that Bob Blaine okay humanity by the way let's get this through our let's

(01:18:12):
get this through our heads liberals okay humanity human flourishing is dependent on increasing
energy usage pretty simple just let's get that one in there let's put that in the head
and let's remember it okay stop trying to fucking kill all the people on the planet you mouth
was in piece of shit and then have us all ride bicycles or something which we're not

(01:18:37):
going to do and also we're never using solar panels sorry we're doing nuclear bro we need
way more power than solar panels will provide we'll do a little bit solar panels like five
but mainly it's going to be nuclear yeah this is all ideological at this point in time
what like I guarantee in the next four year cycle like you simply saying Bitcoin like

(01:18:57):
they they will literally be like oh like you're a far right fascist and it's like you don't
you don't even know what these words mean and and yes you're right it's not fascism
but it's something totally new but yeah it turns out that like fuck your democracy I
don't want like I want nothing to do with you in a political system because you're far
too fucking stupid to make any meaningful choice and like that's what the last decade

(01:19:22):
was about like we we tried your wacky asinine bullshit that has nothing to do with truth
and it's just about route Marxism and like let's be clear like this isn't even Marxism
this is like a very contorted fucked up like half aborted thing that you guys call Marxism
and like it's really infuriating because like Marxism actually like had some good logical

(01:19:45):
points which is why it was like a successful forerunner to the communist movement but like
all of this like post Stalinist shit that you guys call Marxism like it it's just retarded
and it's really infuriating that you believe it because of the feelings that it gives you
and like to be clear like these are all feelings that were indoctrinated from you from kindergarten

(01:20:07):
based on a whole bunch of bullshit and with that being said like you can't even remember
the first principle in kindergarten where they're like you shouldn't steal other people's shit
like that's not okay like you shouldn't you like the other big one is you shouldn't use
violence against people that don't disagree with you huh like that's another big one
that you should really consider more so anyways yeah we're totally going to now we just need

(01:20:29):
to like dispose of this like republican right part and like make our own new tech far right
movement that's like about its own thing I'm really excited for that so when when we get
that going like somebody send me a memo because I'm definitely participating in that because
like I'm really excited about like using that to get our political objectives accomplished

(01:20:49):
I will run for president when we get that figured out let's do that I mean alright so
you got my vote I'm in I'm sold I'm sold the orange party like what what are we with is
it just the orange party maybe that's pretty dope I like it it's clean right like it's
I'm here for it I mean do you think we're gonna sweep with this cuz like everyone is

(01:21:14):
ready for this everyone is hungry for it we're just like we just had the bust out of the
Overton window and make sure that we defeated the communists or at this round but like you
know next round it's gonna be pretty exciting because it'll be clear how fucked it is I
think this idea is actually hanging out there I was listening to the the New York Times in
an interview with Curtis Jarvan recently and if you don't know Jarvan he's like a far-right

(01:21:38):
thinker who basically believes that America needs a CEO or a monarch that sort of acts
like a CEO we need to run America more like a startup or whatever and that's very similar
to the idea that Eric is putting out there and I think that a lot of people kind of want
just like an efficient government that works for them not people don't want authoritarian
control they want something that looks much more like an American CEO than an American

(01:22:01):
dictator but people do want an efficient government that's working for them and not this you know
hopeless morass we find ourselves in with this deep state bureaucracy that does who
knows what for God knows what reasons you know and seemingly puts us in a state of anarcho
tyranny where the state is powerless to help you oh your your daughter got killed by a
fucking Venezuelan migrant sorry but is not powerless to harm you oh you forgot to do

(01:22:27):
your your Venmo transactions well you have a thirty seven hundred dollars here jail for
nine years right and it's like okay that's just an untenable state that we can't have
people living living within and it needs to it needs to find a way to fix itself at some
point well does it does it fix itself though like can it fix itself or does it only get

(01:22:50):
fixed by external pressure from a parallel system like Bitcoin because I know he has
a lot of thoughts on this but like to me personally it's like I would rather stick with the you
know Republic that brung us but like if you study Rome like republics fall to empires
so I don't know man I'm just hanging on here trying to see what happens we can definitely

(01:23:11):
reform the republic but like it needs a radical movement and like like people need to be fucking
angry and they like need to remember their hatred for like how fucking asinine this is
like this isn't this isn't like gee golly I wish this was different it's like you should
be fucking screaming and outraged at how fucking stupid all of this is like these people literally

(01:23:36):
steal from you and exploit you every fucking day in and out around the most stupid asinine
shit while meanwhile their friends are literally participating in pedophile parties and getting
away with the most disgusting and ludicrous crime like the fucking president of the united
states the last four years just pardon every fucking member of his family like it is so

(01:23:58):
absurd like we should be fucking hunting these people down and murdering them instead of
it being like oh well I guess that's just how the political system works like you got
fucked and instead of you like you're trying to be like well no it wasn't rape because
like I wasn't wearing my burqa like no you just got raped consecutively repeatedly and

(01:24:18):
you convinced yourself that that shit was okay because what you live in the UK and was
told that that's that's what's allowed now like no we're fucking American we're not supposed
to allow for ourselves to get gang raped by fucking migrants dude but if you're in the
UK like hey like I'm not trying to be racist like that's that's like a cultural thing you
guys like to do so I was watching the inauguration I was watching the inauguration this morning

(01:24:41):
and the you know Archbishop whoever was giving a fucking prayer about how we're all unified
under God etc and I was you know looking at Bill Clinton who was like three rows back
noted pedophile Epstein Island frequenter Bill Clinton is like right there and it's
like we're just pretending this guy doesn't fuck Tina Andrews like it's it's insane though

(01:25:05):
like it's literally like it's the constant flaunting that as much as you know they like
to say that no one is above the law it's like but you obviously are like like you're saying
no one is above like that's that's the with all this Biden family pardoning shit it's
just so absurd because like have you seen like any of the like people put together some nice

(01:25:25):
like montage clips of like either like Biden or like everyone in the legacy media you know
the Chris Hays is of the world being like well if you're pardoning someone before they
committed a crime isn't that basically admitted that they've actually already been committing
crimes and then you see this now and it's like what you remember those things you said

(01:25:47):
but like apparently all the people who deify you are just like have the memory of goldfish
and just forgot this and there's not even an inkling in their brains of like huh you
know maybe actually we're not the good guy it's like it's like that meme that like you
know like are we the baddies like you know it's just it's insane that we put up with

(01:26:08):
this and that people are just apparently most of them fine with going along with it and
seeing you know somebody like a fucking Bill Clinton just chilling in the back there being
like yep I'm uh I'm you know I'm a disgusting human being who was on Epstein Island but
don't worry I'm it's okay because I'm with her and her is my wife so I don't know it

(01:26:29):
blows my mind.
The corruption will make your head spin because it's uh it's so brazen like you said it's
so brazen it's so in your face it's just like yeah we we're above the law we do what we
do and we can never be brought to justice for it and you know it kind of doesn't matter
which side it is I mean sometimes people think because I was um you know campaigning for Trump

(01:26:52):
people are like uh how does this a fucking mega Trump guy fucking stupid mega tarred
blah blah blah and it's like no dude I I just listen there are problems that are worse than
Trump and those problems were named Kamala Harris right like so like I didn't want a
bunch of violent communists running our society we now have a lesser problem which is we have

(01:27:13):
a uh used car salesman con artist running our society and that's that's fine I guess
it's not ideal is anything really ideal no it's not ideal like we're working with what
we got here we're shit is held together with fucking popsicle sticks and glue uh and we're
not really like sure how if we're gonna make it over this bridge remember when you had

(01:27:36):
to build a bridge out of popsicle sticks and like science class or whatever like I don't
know if the American bridge is gonna hold you know so I was homeschooled actually so
I never did any of your communist bridge building experiments but I I have heard of them you
know yeah yeah I have heard of them I was busy starting fires and playing with knives
and stuff which is I was starting fires but they were you know social fires by being disrupted

(01:28:00):
in class burning down a fellow comrades popsicle bridge just to just to show them there's no
retreat you know it's funny I've I've talked to a few friends because like I homeschool
my kids and like you know pretty unstructured at this point and I and like there's parts
to me that like you know I'm like oh man like am I like fucking my kid up by doing and like

(01:28:22):
you know like my my son's reading like I don't know like five grade levels above where he
should be or something like he just like eats books you know and like but I got him like
an and like pretty sophisticated like AI tutor program that has like everything he can do
and so I was like oh like what is he doing he was like teaching himself like base 58
and I was like that's fucking awesome like that's amazing though well it's funny because

(01:28:56):
like a year ago I talked to Daniel Prince and here cuz he was like you know he homeschooled
all his kids they're pre-octol he was like look like don't like like doing nothing is
like really fucking good he was like your real job is to like keep them away from the indoctrination
that like makes them retarded and innate and like incapable of doing anything and I was
like really like that's it he was like yeah that's like 90% of the job and like low and

(01:29:20):
behold he's right and like all that I really do is I'm it's like a check it I'm like hey
like what are you doing he's like oh like I'm like building this like race car like took
it apart I'm like putting it back together and I'm like all right cool like you need
parts he's like yeah I could use like a soldering kit and I'm like cool like all right like
the lesson is like like don't put your kids in public school cuz like the other thing

(01:29:41):
is like your kid and like I have friends who like their kids have came home and they like
say like really crazy shit to them you know like like you know the founding fathers were
just like a bunch of racists who like hated black people and it's like what like who could
you tell me more and they're like yeah that's why they're all white obviously and it's like

(01:30:01):
uh who got some work here to do perfect and like yeah and again like this is one of the
other things about Bitcoin that's really important is that like it turns out when you can actually
like save a little bit of fucking money and they'll like increases in its saving power
versus decreases like maybe you and your partner could have a conversation about like somebody
taking a little bit more time off so like instead of you having to hire and use the

(01:30:25):
state babysitting service called school like you can actually educate your children about
what your guys's values are and how you believe that you guys should operate in the world
rather than let somebody who has never had children and has dyed their hair purple as
a statement about who and what they are educate your children about that and like not to hate
on dyeing your hair but it's like it like it's unfortunate to me that like that's now

(01:30:47):
a political statement that like you you think that I don't know it's fucked up you know
what that you know what I'm sad about it you know what that means now it means I can form
having tattoos and piercings and purple look basically looking like a punk rocker from like
the late 70s early 80s means I'm a hardcore conformist that's what it means which is pretty

(01:31:10):
hilarious it is not counterculture in any way now like it is just literally mainstream
yeah yeah it is a really easy signal to pick out and again especially like with young men
counterculture has become like being the opposite of everything that the crazy cat lady teacher
is so you know your crazy cat lady teacher has purple hair and fucking you know tattoos

(01:31:32):
all over yourself and piercings well you're gonna be totally straight lays no tattoos
crew cut go to go to church you know and then she's gonna be like you know you get America's
foundationally like woke and we should get religion out of schools and you're gonna be
like Christ is king Christ is king because that's the only way to rebel so it's actually
kind of like hilarious to watch that it's come full circle right it's like when we were

(01:31:56):
kids you were belt in the opposite way and now you know during the Bush era or whatever
and now you rebel you know by being a trad conservative so unlike the the backlash that's
gonna come from this like really blows my fucking mind it's like you you have taken
the most capable able-bodied segment of the population and you have isolated harassed

(01:32:20):
and diminished them and when like they figure out that like everything you've told them
is a fucking lie and that you've disenfranchised them like specifically around the shit that
like you don't be like you disenfranchise them specifically because of their sex and
specifically because of the color of their skin like they're gonna be fucking mad yeah

(01:32:41):
like when they get together with other guys and start like drinking a bit like you got
a real fucking problem on your hands and like welcome to the far-right tech party like come
along like you want to celebrate you and help you out like here there's a bunch of tools
to help you out and organize yourself because like you guys are actually empowered individuals
that should be celebrating that Christ is king and reforming your local government your

(01:33:03):
state government and you know your national government in order to enact the values that
you believe in and are entitled to because you're the able-bodied powerful one you know
and like and I just want to be clear like I really support like my body my choice and
that's why like I shouldn't be fucking drafted and that women shouldn't have any saying that
it's absolutely insane to me that like I can go die for my country so like let's just

(01:33:28):
scrap that because like again I respect your body your choice let's respect my body my
choice if you want to go get murdered and Ukraine because we continue this bullshit thank God
Trump's gonna end that shit too like like the the fact that we gave like how much money
did we give to you it was like a half trillion dollars something like that it's been an absurd
amount in 2008 bailout one that we just like gave you like gave them basically all of our

(01:33:56):
old military supply and you know it was the thing I kept hearing from people that never
made sense to me is like this is a good deal for us they kept saying this is a good deal
for us like we were getting rid of our old supply and then we're able to get new supply
and we're bleeding one of our adversaries or whatever and it's like you're you're hollowing
out that country you're hollowing it out of all of its young talented men and what is

(01:34:23):
gonna be left there even if they win the war it's gonna be a pure victory because what
will be left other than sex traffickers drug traffickers the worst elements of society it's
and all the rich mayors all the rich like politicians sons who all fled the country
into Romania in in their super nice cars yeah right like it's it's insane well and that's

(01:34:48):
the like that's the messed up thing is it's like it's like oh we're getting a good deal
out of this it's like the we that is getting a good deal is the military industrial complex
like we as Americans are not getting any good deal out of this the flower of Ukraine's and
Russia's youth is not getting a good deal out of this they're fucking dying in the most
horrific possible ways the only ones who are getting a good deal out of this are the politicians

(01:35:11):
who are getting nice kickbacks and heavily invested in the military industrial complex
and like so there is no we there unless you are one of those politicians then like great
you've run a beautiful griff that has cost countless lives and enriched yourself under
the guise of somehow like my democracy and like it just it's just insane by the way

(01:35:32):
they they don't actually take away everything that they say because they don't actually
want to win this war what they want is for this war to go on indefinitely because like
Julian Assange said the point is to wash the money out of the American and European
tax bases into the hands of a transnational security elite that's the point and they deal

(01:35:57):
in blood in order to enrich themselves I mean they are literally like sending you know more
young men to the slaughter every day on the front lines brave patriotic young men who
like are the best of us really because they show up and do that when you know they otherwise
wouldn't want to I mean did you see there was a video of a Russian and Ukrainian night

(01:36:18):
fighting to death it was about seven minutes long I don't know if you guys saw this but
I made the point to a bunch of you just see this shit on the internet now it's fucking
insane dude I made the point to a bunch of people that if you support the Ukrainian
war effort and a bunch of people said they did I said you should go watch the seven
minute video two guys night fighting each other to death and they were like well I don't
want to watch that and it's like you're supporting this this is what you support you know so

(01:36:44):
well I didn't think it would be that bad I think yeah well look and like on the other
half is like now with this streaming directly on noster like there's actually like a free
and open platform to like have real conversations about this shit like I was I was really excited
to see in Carols like on noster now because like he's actually like approaching some of

(01:37:05):
this stuff and like it's it's hilarious because he's just like hey guys there seems to be
like all of this money in connection to like Israel and like like all these israels are
like you're an anti-Semite in the Nazi and he's like like all I'm literally doing is
just pointing out that like there seems to be a strange relationship to how much money
is making its way into the hands of Israelis who do for all intents and purposes seem to

(01:37:30):
be conducting a genocide against the Palestinian people and they're like like we said you're
a fucking Nazi look guys like I just don't like I just don't fucking understand how
we got to this place that like you support killing in any way like it's just it's so
ludicrous to me and like this like this is what brought me to Bitcoin in the first place

(01:37:53):
is like during Occupy Wall Street I was like the money is obviously the fucking problem
and I'm really angry because like I don't want to support any war like I had the fortune
experience when I was younger to go travel through a number of war zones and meet a bunch
of people who like just had their fucking limbs blown off when they were children because
they had the unfortunate consequence of wandering into an American minefield and like this happens

(01:38:16):
over and over and over and over again and I remember sitting one night in fucking my
hospital in Cambodia just fucking crying because like I literally had 30 kids chasing me who
most of them were missing their fucking limbs from American munitions and I was so traumatized
by that fucking experience that when I finally found this Bitcoin thing and like I just put

(01:38:37):
it all together I was like wait a minute like this is an actual money that these people
can't fucking control there's a real opportunity to use this thing to fight that gigantic fucking
war machine and then you get the my favorite those we get the like with that actually actually
like Bitcoin can't shut the fuck up like you have no solution whatsoever other than sitting

(01:39:03):
in your chair like typing away on Reddit at night because you think you're right and
your head is so far up your own fucking ass that you can't even stop for a minute to go
maybe these insane Bitcoin people actually have a point maybe there really is a real
potential for this thing to challenge the power that be in a meaningful way and even
as that doesn't mean it doesn't rip the full fucking base out of the fiat war machine it

(01:39:26):
at least empowers people like in Carol that I can send him money directly on no store
because he's having real conversations with people about the structure of this thing and
how fucking exploited if it is to the entire the entirety of the American Republic and
like if you're a liberal and sincerely believe that Bitcoin is this terrible far right thing
like I don't know what to tell you anymore like you're so fucking lost that you like

(01:39:51):
liberalism doesn't mean anything at all to you other than a badge that you got given by
a bunch of fucking murderers so go fuck yourself sorry I'm a little fired up and angry about
stuff today well like the thing I'm angry is like I live in liberal topia where it's
like that Nazi Trump he's he's gonna hurt everyone I'm like your president like your

(01:40:16):
president literally just pardoned his entire family for their fucking crimes and like well
Trump did more crap I'm like I'm not playing what about ism with you I'm pointing out that
he committed a real fucking crime yeah and you don't give a fuck about it do you know
sorry guys no it's it's real safe space I know it's a safe space no apology no sir it

(01:40:40):
is I'm also stoked that Ian Carroll's on no sir because honestly you found me out you
found me out no like I fucking appreciate you are you crypto-nazi too I guess so I mean

(01:41:03):
I'm a member of the Orange Party and I hear they're all crypto-nazi fascists so right homies
yeah I just got a disclaim like motherfuckers like so like I have actually read a lot of
different Nazi ideology I'm like pretty well versed in understanding what national socialism
is like I'm not a Nazi because I actually understand that and like the like when you

(01:41:25):
say fascist and Nazi like I understand those are like real words and not just like bad guy
and like it's really important to understand that like the third largest economy in the
most populous country in Europe made a choice to elect actual Nazis for like actual reasons
and maybe instead of you just like relegating that to like a bad place in history like maybe

(01:41:48):
you should fucking study it to understand that there was like real reasoning of why and
how that whole thing played out and again this isn't to come to the conclusion that
like we should kill all the Jews it's actually come to the conclusion that like there was
real fucking problems that made people actually desperate to choose that method and model in
order to try to change their future and the thing fucking unhinged itself at the end in

(01:42:11):
a number of really fucking despotic ways that you should educate yourself on so it doesn't
happen again so I think I think I think the point you're making out there not a Nazi which
is that meaning the over the Overture window is as wide as you believe it is and that there
really should be no topic in a free and open society like America with free speech that

(01:42:33):
we shouldn't be able to discuss openly like so if you want to discuss Nazism or anti-Semitism
in their full breadth and color you should be able to do that without being accused of
being XYZ thing unless you literally stand up and say I am a Nazi I hate the Jews then
we're going to assume as Americans acting in good faith that you are not a Nazi and
you don't hate the Jews unless you're Kanye West in which case you might but like but

(01:42:58):
for most other people will believe that you're acting in good faith in conversation until
you show yourself that you're not acting in good faith by the way I saw that thing about
Ian Carroll and I didn't know much I don't know much about Ian Carroll I thought it was
cool he was a big creator who was bringing his followers to Nostra but other than that
I didn't know and I saw some people online calling him anti-Semite or whatever so I think

(01:43:18):
Eric's explanation was very helpful for me too which is again why you should be able
to openly discuss stuff because now when I hear people say it after hearing Eric describe
it I'm like oh yeah he's probably not a Nazi you know.
I don't get Nazi vibes from him.
The whole thing people are keyed up on like about the Jew thing that they don't understand
is that like there's like a big difference between like Zionism and Judaism and then

(01:43:42):
like if you don't understand that those things are actually different from each other it's
the same thing of being like Bitcoin is crypto right it's like like that's like kind of an
inserating standpoint like one of my really close friends like he is an anti-Zionist Jew
and like he is Jewish and like practices Judaism and he also does not believe that like the
Israeli state should be doing the things that it's doing and like again this is all super

(01:44:05):
nuanced shit that it's really hard to talk about because most people fucking flip out
about it but like again it's really important to understand history.
The thing that pisses me off the most about it is like this shit's been going on for 70
years and the dudes that are like free Palestine it's like they didn't even know where it wasn't
on a map until like two years ago. It's just infuriating and like yeah like I feel the

(01:44:26):
same as them but it's just like the way you guys go about this and like the general racism
that you guys postulate towards it and the way that you like empower the whole dynamic
it's fucking retarded you know to me it's no different from the liberal conservative
thing it's really frustrating and difficult so I don't know.
Noster's just really exciting because like there hasn't been any space to have any of

(01:44:49):
these nuance and difficult discussions and being able to really actually put them out
there and not have the algorithms fuck with it in all kinds of ways so like I'm I don't
know I was just thinking earlier like I'm really excited for someone to really actually
start using Noster as a platform to have like really difficult conversations because like
I would really love to see a real debate with somebody who like actually believes and supports

(01:45:11):
the Ukraine thing and like would be willing to sit down and have a nuanced discussion
about it. By the way maybe we should just do that maybe we should start hosting like
Noster you know Lincoln Douglas style of the Bates or something like I did have a good
idea right? It's kind of a kind of a banger of an idea.
We kind of haven't been using our free speech platform for all that much free speech we're

(01:45:33):
kind of going to be like hey GM it's all the people I like Bitcoin I love it because it's
a cozy safe space we're like it's all friends hey friends welcome to the friend fort.
We have this extremely powerful weapon for anti-statism that we could use to actually
like organize a revolutionary front like what do you guys want to do? I want to say good
morning and like post nice pictures of like cats like like I was like posting like mushroom

(01:45:57):
pictures and be like bike riding in the forest.
Isn't that refreshing that like when when humans have absolute freedom or when a certain
amount of humans have absolute freedom they use it to just be chill with each other it's
like it feels a lot better when you don't have the boot on your neck you know like when
I was on X I was you know famous for constantly getting my accounts banned and I felt like

(01:46:19):
I was a you know because back then they were lined there was no Twitter files or whatever
they were just lying to us about everything they were doing and so I kind of felt like
a velociraptor testing the fences where you know I just say something or do something
see if it would get me banned and then I would resurrect my account and then I would get
banned again and like you know in the movie they they never test the same spot twice so
you look systematically for weaknesses by brute forcing your way through all the things

(01:46:42):
that could possibly get you banned on Twitter and I felt like that was important to do because
I was having my free speech taken away where as a Nostra I'm no one's ever gonna come take
my free speech away so I don't really give a fuck you know like I don't I don't feel
like I need to fight against something because there's nothing there to fight against except

(01:47:02):
for that what's that one platform run by that rabble dude what's that one called dark sky
which one dark sky no no that's a not blue sky like I'm like I'm like no it's just no
it's a different one it's a little it's a little hard not yeah I I met rabble in person

(01:47:26):
I very much enjoyed him I don't know I don't like him I don't like him and I don't think
it's totally crap and you're free to yeah and you can go tell him right now I don't
know if you know about this Eric yeah censorship regime on Nostra and he's like he's got a
little bot that tags things as hate speech and stuff and you can post something very
benign and it'll tag you as hate speech or whatever it's very gay so I have a I have

(01:47:54):
a way to like see where like base conversations are going I can't remember what the name of
his stupid app is because I don't know you know like what's like what's the point of
that because like don't we just don't we just like not connected as node and yeah it's completely
pointless it's completely ineffectual and go ahead you know have fun have fun staying

(01:48:18):
poor if you're using whatever the hell that client is that I can't remember it's I'm I'm
literally forgetting its name right now too but good job censoring people on the anti
censorship protocol good job buddy you're doing the old strategy and let's see how it
plays out for him but okay dude I've kept you here for a while now before just we should

(01:48:42):
probably we should probably wrap up get back to our lovely families before we do anything
else you want to leave folks with we I think we might actually apparently I apparently
I timed this like a jackass because I guess Trump is going to be actually announcing
some of the executive orders that he signed like fairly soon so we'll just have to know
we'll just have to note at each other afterwards any any closing thoughts though anything you

(01:49:05):
want to leave the the good folks watching this at home with hmm let me think that rabble
guy is a bitch so just know that lovey sweet here we go you know for me it's just like
the more because when I was peeing I was like man this is like better than fucking therapy

(01:49:28):
and then I was like yeah like why the fuck should I do therapy with like a normie person
who like doesn't understand me who I'm like always trying to bridge this gap rather than
just like spending more time with my people so like I I've been on this kick for a long
time trying to figure out like how to get my people's together more like I was looking
at and I'm still looking at like buying a variety of like different like camps and stuff where

(01:49:48):
like I can get together like 50 people and just like hang out and party but I don't know
like I just I just love you guys and I love being around my people because like I feel
like I get to be fucking real and that like when I'm talking about my stuff like people
get it and like I it's just it's hard out there normally and like running up against
the the the barrier every time and I guess with that being said like if you're a listener

(01:50:09):
and you're like out there and like you haven't connected with other Bitcoin people like figure
out a way to do it because like it's really refreshing and feels really good so like whether
it's going to a conference or finding a meetup or like whatever way you can do it like it's
pretty important because like every time that I've actually gotten together with people
and and like even more when there's a bigger gathering of people it's pretty fucking epic

(01:50:31):
by the way like I'm pretty jealous of you guys like you guys going to like sailors big
ball and you guys go to the crypto ball I don't know I was just like watching all that
and I didn't go to the crypto ball by the way fucking love you guys too but I did not
go to the crypto ball I didn't go to the ball either because I was like do I really want
to leave my kids hang out with a bunch of douche bag politicians like not really no

(01:50:53):
this sailor party thing it was it was fun but you know I'm not going to like be like
it was the time of my life you missed out bro like it was fine honestly like I there were
a bunch of people upset on Twitter that they didn't get the invite and I think it was about
not being like legitimized by not having the invite or something like they weren't part
of the cool kids club or whatever but like honestly bro I I fucking flew five hours to

(01:51:14):
wear a suit in 80 degree Miami heat it was not great it was not that great I'm appreciative
to sailor for inviting us and everything it was all the homies I'm really surprised he
invited me after you did did you tweet about me in the pool I'm fucking blackball there's

(01:51:35):
no way I'm getting an invite after that that's why I think he was like I want that again like
this this is the kind of color that I need there you know like spice things up I felt
really appreciative of that but but no honestly like my my like apex bitcoin moment was just
it was in Madeira it was like midnight there was probably like 20 of us that were all just
like hanging out in a square like smoking cigars having drinks and like it was like

(01:51:59):
a symposium like we're literally like going through Greek history talking about cynics
in the like world view and like I don't know it was just it really really refreshed me
and kind of reminded me of what I was up to and then my importance of this because to
me like this is all a big philosophical sojourn that I'm going through and yeah every time

(01:52:19):
I talk with you guys like I'm always like oh yeah like that's the thing I'm up to that's
why it's important to me that's why I want to get back to it so yeah thanks for so so
with that being said I I always appreciate getting invited on on your podcast Walker
and getting to talk with you you know and just getting to connect with people like this
good cuz like that's where the meat is you know for me when we start when you start connecting

(01:52:40):
with other Bitcoiners getting the importance and what you can do with it it gives you that
extra kick in the ass to be like oh like I need to lean in and do this I need to study
it more I need to figure out the way that I'm gonna generate more stat like whatever
but like you're gonna get something meaty from it and so I really encourage anybody
who's listening that hasn't connected with other Bitcoiners like go find your peoples

(01:53:00):
in your place and like you're gonna find something good there oh by the way I do have a thing
to say PSA stop saying the Bitcoin price is tanking dumping crashing when it's down
anything other than 10 grand okay if it's down 10 grand 10% go ahead and say that if

(01:53:22):
it's down six that is 6% if it's down 3 grand that is 3% these days okay like no how
do I have some self respect act like you've been here before alright like stop getting
focused on the nominal price like I just lost three grand it's 3% man it's only 3% okay
and simultaneously stop saying we're pumping okay if we're not above $10,000 on the day

(01:53:49):
because fucking I'm sick of checking my phone when you fuckers use this hyperbolic language
you are pissing me the fuck off stop it get some help it's only a 3% move get used to
winning one day Bitcoin is gonna move millions of dollars in a single day okay get used to
start thinking in percentage terms be smart don't be a retard I don't know you're just

(01:54:13):
like you're just showing your hand at how fucking poor you are if you're like like I
get the cash out like when it's gone up to be thousand dollars like like what are you
doing like now now you like you have an extra $3,000 like what are you gonna do with that
now oh turns out that like you just lost out $6,000 because you fucking press the sell
button too soon you fucking retard like maybe maybe you should actually just like figure

(01:54:35):
out what you need to live and like what the things you want to get that are special to
you you just have your important sell point whether it's however much it is but like come
on guys like this is fucking retarded so I'm sorry I just I don't know that that that shit
rubbed me the wrong way it's like it if it's that important for you to have that that 3%
gain like don't tell me about that just tell me what you're gonna get yourself now that

(01:54:59):
you hit your sell point and why that thing's important like I'm happy for you that that's
great that you have that but like if you just want to get more dollars in your bank account
you're you're just showing your hand of that like you're not actually a bit coin or you're
just somebody here to make money and again like there's nothing wrong with that but it's
just kind of fucking cringe like you're like the crypto bros that are trying to show you
the Lamborghini that you bought by by how you you fucking played the pump it's gross

(01:55:25):
and and and on that note I fucking appreciate you guys thanks for being here I'm this is
also always therapeutic with both of you and getting to shoot the shit and this will continue
to be a safe space for all the orange party dissidents and I you know there's there's
a growing number of us every day so that's a hopeful thing but appreciate you guys share

(01:55:49):
that shit because like I need that yeah I really need it because like I just want to
just kick both liberals and conservatives in the face and be like you're either the orange
party or you're against us like you're one of you're one of those people or you're with
us like which one and then I just like the then the battle lines are drawn and it's really

(01:56:10):
easy we'll wear orange armbands we'll have we'll have a nice little little symbol that
goes on our orange armband oh but I'm feeling about all of you are dependent on price when
the price is up you're beautiful amazing community members and kindred spirits and I love you
all to death when the price is down you fucking people in your slight differences discuss me

(01:56:31):
just know that know that I feel the same way I feel the same way okay thanks to everybody
who tuned in on no stir also and perhaps we will bring on some fucking debates it's no
stir and I'm not okay no the end of come come the conversations ruin now the conversations
ruined okay we say hi in this house we say gay and retarded we also say not their novel

(01:56:58):
that's the live stream and that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin
podcast you are a bitcoin only company interest in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast head to
bitcoin podcast dot net slash sponsor or send an email to hello at bitcoin podcast dot net

(01:57:23):
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(01:57:48):
the links to follow me and the show on no stir and on x bitcoin is scarce there will
only ever be 21 million but bitcoin podcasts are abundant so thank you for spending your
scarce time to listen to the bitcoin podcast until next time stay free.

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THE GREAT BITCOIN AWAKENING | American Hodl & Erik Cason (THE Bitcoin Podcast)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}THE GREAT BITCOIN AWAKENING | American Hodl & Erik Cason (THE Bitcoin Podcast)