From Frenemies to Friends: Intra-Household Aggression with Christina Young

If you've ever experienced the heartache of your dogs fighting under your roof, you know how this situation can leave you feeling helpless, frustrated, and deeply conflicted. Take heart – there are solutions, and this episode offers a comprehensive roadmap to understanding and resolving these challenging dynamics.

Christina Young, certified dog behavior consultant and co-instructor of the Aggression and Dogs Real Life Solutions course, brings her wealth of experience to this nuanced conversation about dogs who struggle to get along with their canine housemates. She reveals why communication breakdowns lie at the heart of most conflicts, explaining that many dogs simply haven't developed the skills to effectively express their needs or read another dog's signals appropriately.

The episode delves into practical considerations that dramatically impact dog-dog relationships – from the importance of age gaps (ideally 3-4 years between dogs), to the reality that same-sex pairings (particularly females) often present greater challenges if conflicts develop. Christina unpacks how resource guarding, play style incompatibilities, and even breed-specific communication patterns influence household harmony.

For guardians currently navigating tension between their dogs, Christina offers concrete management strategies including proper use of baby gates for "separation without isolation," teaching alternative behaviors during high-arousal moments, and creating designated safe spaces where each dog can truly relax. She emphasizes proactive reinforcement rather than reactive corrections, showing how timing your interventions before stress signals appear creates new emotional patterns around triggering situations.

Whether you're considering adding a second dog or struggling with existing conflicts, this episode provides compassionate guidance for creating a home where all your dogs can thrive. Follow Christina's methodical approach to introductions, management, and training – because every being deserves to feel safe in their own home.

ABOUT CHRISTINA:
https://positive.dog/about/

Learn more about options for help for dogs with aggression here:
AggressiveDog.com

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The Aggression in Dogs Conference

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
In this episode, I'm joined by the insightful and
talented Christina Young as weexplore the challenging and
often emotional topic ofinter-household dog-dog
aggression.
Christina and I dig into theroot causes of conflict between
dogs living under the same roof,including the role of
communication, breakdowns,resource guarding and the

(00:23):
importance of structuredintroductions.
Breakdowns, resource guardingand the importance of structured
introductions.
We also discuss how factorslike age, sex and even the
individual history influencecanine relationships and what
dog guardians can do to createsafer, more harmonious homes.
Christina brings a wealth ofexperience and compassion to
this conversation, offering bothpractical tools and heartfelt

(00:43):
support for those navigatingthese difficult situations.
Christina is a certified dogbehavior consultant and
professional canine behaviorconsultant.
She co-instructs the Aggressionand Dogs Real Life Solutions
course, hosts the Aggression andDogs Mentor Sessions and is a
certified training partnerthrough the Karen Pryor Academy.
She brings a holisticperspective to her work,

(01:06):
combining advanced educationwith real-world experience,
including her own multi-doghousehold and background in
competitive dog sports.
She's also the creator of thenew Aggressive Dog Guardian
course, a much-needed resourcefor guardians facing complex
behavioral challenges.
And before we jump into today'sepisode, a quick heads up If

(01:28):
you're looking to learn moreabout helping dogs with
aggression issues, head on overto aggressivedogcom, because
we've got something for everyone.
For pet pros, there's theAggression in Dogs Master Course
, which is the mostcomprehensive course available
on aggression, packed withexpert insights and CEUs For dog
guardians.
Check out Real Life Solutions,which I've just mentioned that

(01:49):
Christina is a part of and I'mvery proud to have her as part
of the course and if you wantfull access to expert webinars,
live mentor sessions andexclusive discounts, the
Ultimate Access membership isjust $29.95 a month.
You'll also find info on the2025 Aggression and Dogs
Conference happening inCharlotte this September.
That can all be found ataggressivedogcom.

(02:11):
Check it out after the show.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Bitey End of the Dog.
This week we are going to betalking about dog-dog aggression
, a focus on inter-householddog-dog aggression, but we're
going to be talking about dogsthat kind of just have issues
with other dogs, and I couldn'tthink of anybody else better to

(02:32):
bring in than Christina Young,who specializes in this topic
and is a mentor forAggressiveDogcom, and so we're
going to be doing a deep diveinto all things dog-dog complex.
So welcome to the show,christina.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Hi Mike, Thanks for having me Excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's great to have you back again because this is
your second time on the show, soI'm looking forward to going
deeper into this topic, becausewe talked about it a little bit
last time but now we have somemore advanced things.
But we're going to start withsome of the basics, because I
know some of our listeners theymight be struggling with their
own dogs in the home, so let'sjump right into.
You know what are the mostcommon reasons for dogs having
conflicts or fights with eachother, and this can be again in

(03:12):
the home or just in general.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Typically, when dogs are having conflict with each
other, it stems from a lack ofcommunication skills.
So a lot of the times the dogsjust don't have the skills on
how to effectively andappropriately communicate with
each other and then we getconflict between them because
one dog might be trying tocommunicate ABC where the other

(03:36):
dog is not responding to that ornot reading that appropriately,
and then we might haveaggression or escalated conflict
between them because they don'tknow how to navigate through
the scenario that they're intogether.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, it's definitely one of the most common factors
and we even see that betweendogs and humans.
Right, it's a lack ofcommunication skills.
What are some things?
If we start looking at dogsthat we're trying to bring home
or introduce to the home and youknow, if you have a dog that's
already got lack ofcommunication skills with other
dogs, what are some things thatcan actually compound that?

(04:12):
So you have a dog that has atough time telling another dog,
for instance, go away from mybone.
But in the home, what do yousee as some of the most common
reasons for conflicts to occur?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Resources are a huge one, so they might want to have
some peace when they rest andthey might want to have access
to a person or a bone or a toy.
That's a really, really commonone.
The other super common one isplay style or play skills.
So one of the dogs might reallywant to play a lot, especially

(04:43):
if they're a puppy, and theother dog might be older or
might not be interested inplaying with the dog or might
not be interested in playing inthe same way as the first dog,
and then we can get conflictbetween those as well.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
In your cases, what do you see?
So you mentioned resources asbeing the top reason.
What are some other top reasons?
You mentioned play, but in yourexperience, especially in your
area of the country, what do yousee as probably other than
resources, as the top reasonsfor these cases, for people to
reach out to you?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
I think the number one reason why people are having
conflict in their homes isbecause the dogs aren't speaking
kind of the same language.
So one dog might be of acertain breed type and another
dog might be of a differentbreed type and they communicate
very differently, they playdifferently, they interact
differently, they have differentdesires from their canine

(05:36):
relationships.
So one dog might want towrestle and play and cuddle and
share a stick and the other dogmight just want to go along and
sniff and pee on things together.
So we have different driversfor the dogs.
The dogs want different things,that are their canine
relationships.
And then we put them in a housetogether and we say, oh well,

(05:56):
they'll just work it out.
And quite often if they're notof a similar kind of mindset or
not similar desires from whatthey want from other canines,
then we will get conflictbetween them.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So if you were to coach a client that's thinking
about getting a dog they have adog already and they want a
second dog or a third dog whatare recommendations, sort of
proactive measures that they cantake to avoid conflicts from
happening in the first place?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
The first thing they can do is make sure that the
dogs they already have have somereally good foundational
communication skills.
Then we don't bring a seconddog home that might not have the
skills and then we're trying totrain everybody all at once.
So the very most importantthing you can do is try to
ensure that our existing dogshave those skills, and then the
second piece would be to choosea dog that has similar drives or

(06:50):
similar desires for how theywant to communicate with other
dogs.
So, for instance, stickingwithin your breed type is often
a good idea, sticking within asimilar size is a good idea, and
choosing dogs that have a lotof things in common already,
rather than dogs that are verydifferent.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
And you mentioned, you know, communication deficits
.
Is that something that can betaught?
Or let's say, you're a person,you have a dog and it's just
your solo dog, but like, how dowe get that to happen, you know,
especially for already adding asecond dog.
Or you know we don't have theresources of a bunch of other
dogs around us.
What can we do to help thesedogs learn these communication

(07:29):
skills?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh, so many things.
So we call them communicationskills because they are a skill
just like anything, and dogs canlearn how to communicate more
appropriately or in a moreeffective way, and things that
we can do are go train outside,so our dogs can learn
communication skills withoutactually interacting with other

(07:52):
dogs.
We can train, for instance, ona walk with dogs that are
walking down the other side ofthe street.
We can train outside of a dogpark.
We can train outside of a petstore where dogs are coming and
going.
There's lots of places where wecan go and work on
communication skills at adistance without actually
interacting with other dogs.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Tell me more about what that looks like for you.
So if you're out with a client,what are some of the tangible
skills you might be working on?
Or what does it look like if Iwas to go with you on a session
like that?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It depends on the dog .
So some dogs are afraid ofother dogs, Some dogs are
excited by other dogs.
Some dogs are completelyneutral when it comes to other
dogs and we want to set them upso that.
So, for instance, if we have afearful dog, instead of them
having to feel like they have tobark and lunge and scream at
the dog across the street or onthe sidewalk in order to make

(08:45):
distance, we can teach that doghow to ask us for help, how to
go and sniff, how to do otherbehaviors, that then we help
ensure that those behaviors areeffective.
So, for instance, if we have afearful dog that's used to kind
of staring at other dogs thinkof a typical border collie I'm
just going to stare at you totry to create space.

(09:06):
A golden retriever coming at usmight interpret that as hi, I
would love to play.
So we need to teach our bordercollie there how to go and sniff
a stick or go pee on a tree Notthat we want them peeing in our
house later on, but we want toteach them how to communicate
that they don't want contact,that they need space in more

(09:29):
appropriate ways, and one of themost common ways we do.
That is, we encourage the dog tosniff, maybe by dropping a
cookie, by bouncing a cookie offof their shoulder so they sniff
the ground.
If every time they feeluncomfortable by an approaching
dog, we help them learn to droptheir head and sniff the ground.
If every time they feeluncomfortable by an approaching
dog, we help them learn to droptheir head and sniff the ground.
They see the dog coming.

(09:50):
We help them drop their headand sniff the ground and that
works.
We ensure that then theoncoming dog doesn't encroach
upon their space.
Then the dog will go.
Hey, actually this feels a lotless icky if we want to
anthropomorphize a bit there.
But the dogs typically don'twant conflict and they'll choose
kind of the least path, ofleast resistance if we show them

(10:12):
what those paths are.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's good advice.
So it sounds like a process ofdesensitization, just gradual
exposure to other dogs at adistance, combined with
reinforcing desirable behaviorsaround the presence of other
dogs.
So, really just capturing,sniffing the ground or peeing on
the tree, as you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, does that sound about right.
It does Capturing, but also wecan use food to create the
sniffing.
We can help them choose thosebehaviors, because some dogs
won't simply just do them ontheir own.
We need to get in there andhelp them choose those behaviors
that we're hoping to see.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
So creative use of location of the reinforcer
sounds like excellent, excellent.
So it sounds like that's goingto be a great approach, for if
somebody is introducing theirnew dog, right, it should be,
and that's what I alwaysrecommend.
It's just let's don't do itinside the home.
Go outside go for that parallelwalk.
Let's get the dogs used to eachother at a distance and

(11:10):
gradually decrease the distance.
Typically I'd prefer aprofessional be supervising that
, because they can see the bodylanguage, the communication that
somebody that doesn't recognizethose things might not be able
to see.
So is that something you do?
Do you get a lot of proactive?
I want to introduce my dog to anew dog, or is it always after
the fact?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It's usually after the fact.
I do get some proactive, butit's usually people who've had
conflict in the home before andnow they want to avoid that.
But we can still do it.
If you're having conflictbetween two dogs in the home, we
can do a little reset where weseparate the dogs for a week or
two weeks or longer even,depending on how severe the

(11:54):
issues are between the dogs.
But we can do a little cortisolholiday.
We can reset the dogs, separatethem inside the house in some
way.
There's lots of ways to do thatand then we can reintroduce
them as though we were bringingtwo new dogs together and start
their relationship off, buildingup new memories, new pathways,

(12:15):
new reinforcement histories bydoing those parallel walks.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Let's move into that area now.
So we're getting let's use atheoretical example We've got a
couple of dogs they've just metoutside.
They seem to be doing well andyou know, no real agonistic or
aggressive responses from eitherdog.
They get a quick sniff, youknow, but where they still
haven't really done a lot ofactive engagement with each
other, seem to be communicatingwell, right.

(12:40):
So we get them in the home.
What are your next steps?
Do you typically recommend,okay, let's keep them separated
for now and we'll graduallyintroduce them over some time?
Or do you kind of take a caseby case where, like, these two
are great with each other, let'sjust let them go?
What do you do in thosescenarios, or maybe even your
own home?

Speaker 2 (12:59):
It's really case by case.
So if we have a very social dogwith great communication skills
and we brought home another dogand we've done their parallel
walks, they've done some bumsniffing.
I'm a big fan of the threesecond rule.
So when we let them sniff, ifthey're sniffing each other, you
count one 1,000, two 1,000,three 1,000.

(13:19):
And if they don't move onthemselves, we assist them in
that.
So we've got those goodcommunication skills.
They can sniff a tree whereanother dog has peed together.
And we're in the house now andthings are going well.
We can evaluate that and say,yeah, these two get along really
great.
There's no history of issuesinside the home.
We can probably just let thatgo, whereas other dogs we might

(13:42):
take it much more slowly.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So what would that look like for the dogs we need
to take it more slowly with?
We see some little signs oftension, or maybe one of the
dogs is saying I need a littlebit more time.
So they're showing someavoidance behaviors.
They're kind of weight shiftingaway or showing some stress
signals from the other dog.
What do you recommend in thosecases?
So no conflicts have occurredyet, but you're seeing, well,
this dog needs more time.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
How do you recommend the management in the home?
I'm a big fan of baby gates,x-pens, that type of thing.
I like separation, notisolation.
So if you live in a very smallhouse or you have very large
dogs, perhaps we don't have alot of options, but it's really
nice to be able to have bothdogs in our living space at the
same time but separated.
So we want them to get used tobeing around each other but not

(14:31):
necessarily having access toeach other.
We might use covered X-pens orbaby gates with a cover on top.
If the visual stimulates toomuch, we can use double baby
gates across the doorways.
But it's nice if they can allbe kind of in the same space
while learning how to just relaxnear each other without having

(14:51):
access to each other.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
And when they start to get together, let's say we've
got them separated like that,we kind of doing the you know I
actually don't like this termcrate and rotate.
You know it's a term we usedfor many years.
But I actually kind of I don'tknow, I feel uncomfortable
because that kind of assumesexcessive crating in some
circumstances.
But anyways, I think thelisteners get what I mean.

(15:14):
When crate and rotate, we'regiving the dogs plenty of
enrichment, exercise andattention when they're not in a
managed space.
I think that's probably thebetter way to say that.
But yeah and it's tough.
We can empathize with some ofour listeners that it's really
tough when you have two, three,four multiple dogs that we're

(15:35):
having to separate and kind ofgive them each their individual
time.
So let's say we've been doingthat system for a week or two
and it seems like everything'sgoing well.
What are your recommendationsfor some of the initial?
Let's just hang out Now we'rein the house together, you guys
don't need as much separation.
What should that look like?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Before we go there we want to do a risk assessment.
If there's very low risk, youcan proceed a lot more quickly.
If there's a bite history, ifthere's a size disparity, if
we've decided that there's ahigher risk to one or more of
the dogs or humans in thepicture, we want to take it very
slowly and kind of play it byear with the situation in front
of us.
So before we go together in onespace we want to make sure the

(16:17):
dogs have some foundation skills.
Can each dog recall?
That's number one.
We want to say, oh, I don'tlike the looks of that scenario
happening in front of me.
Maybe one is really excitedlysniffing the other's bum and the
second dog is giving somestress signals and saying please
go away, Please go away, I'muncomfortable.

(16:37):
We want to make sure that if thefirst dog doesn't disengage
themselves, if they don'trespond to that communication,
we need to help them byrecalling them away.
So if a stressed dog is askingfor space, we want to make sure
they get the space if they askin a very polite way, and that
polite communication will thenbe reinforced and be more likely

(16:58):
to happen again and our dogwon't feel the need to escalate.
So recall is number one, and itcan be recall inside the home.
It doesn't have to be.
You need a perfect recall awayfrom rabbits and deer and all
the things outside.
Simply recall inside the homeneeds to be taught as a primary
skill, for sure.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
What else would you say to watch for in those?
So let's say we're hanging out,dogs are in the living room,
we're just sitting on the couch,dogs are just chilling out.
Anything else we should beconcerned about in that
environment or to just kind ofkeep an eye on.
So think of your average petguardian out there wondering
what should I look for?
What are some red?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
flags that I should be aware of.
Resources are a big one.
The first time they're hangingout in the same room together.
Maybe pick up the toys anybones, ensure that there are
multiple sleeping spaces.
We might even use leashes ortethers on each dog.
So if we have two humans andtwo dogs, that's great.
Each human can haveresponsibility for each dog,

(18:01):
whether they were holding theleashes or just kind of having
them there ready to use.
If we need to create separationbetween the dogs and I think the
most important thing ischoosing when.
So we wouldn't choose a time tohave those dogs together when
we're expecting, say, someone tocome to the door.
If we know an Amazon package isfive stops away, that's not the

(18:25):
right time because that's goingto be a higher arousal
situation.
If we know our partner or ourkid or friend or whomever is
going to come by and knock atthe door not the right time,
that's going to be a higharousal time.
So we want to choose lowerarousal times of the day or
situations.
So the dogs have had a walk.

(18:46):
They've all had some enrichment.
They are feeling just chill.
It might be time for a nap, butnot overtired.
We have to be careful that wedon't tire the dogs out too much
so that they're very tired andmaybe less tolerant or they just
want their space as well.
So picking the time of day andhow much we've done with the

(19:07):
dogs is key to helping the dogsbe set up for success when
they're together in the sameroom.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
And I want to back up a step here too.
We had talked earlier aboutintroducing the dogs outside the
home, and then you'd mentionedleashes inside the home as well,
and I'm assuming you mean dragleashes if nobody's holding the
leash.
What else should we be aware ofwhen it comes to leashes and
introductions?

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, leashes can have a lot of extra stuff associated
with them so dogs can becomefrustrated.
These leashes for a lot of dogsare so unpredictable.
Sometimes they can pull and getto the thing that they want.
Sometimes leashes don't letthem.
Sometimes, depending on who'sholding them, leashes might

(19:52):
inflict, you know, a correctionor pain or all sorts of things.
So when we have leashes on dogsthat we are and we're doing
intros, it's very important thatwe've kind of addressed those
skills or managed them in a waythat they're not going to affect
the introduction and we want totry to keep those leashes loose
.
So the leashes are there incase we need them.

(20:15):
But we think we won't need themRight, if they're kind of a
backup, they're not meant as aprimary steering of the dogs or
a primary means of controllingthe dogs.
If we think we need the leasheson them to control the dogs,
the dogs likely aren't ready toshare spaces together.
They're just there, especiallyinside the house.

(20:36):
We made a judgment call thatwasn't quite right, where, if
something happens and the dogsget themselves into trouble,
it's nice to have a leash tograb instead of a dog.
We don't want to necessarilygrab a dog that's in high
arousal and worried and anxiousor frustrated.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, it's a tough one because I think muscle
memory and a little bit ofnervousness or nerves can cause
somebody to naturally tighten upon the leash because they're
worried about it.
And I don't blame anybody.
You know, if you're worriedabout what your dog might do,
you tend to tighten up on theleash.
You're getting ready to pullyour dog away from the other dog
.
So I know one of the things.
I don't know.
You might do this too, but Icoach my clients on how to

(21:17):
handle that leash so it doesn'tget tight.
And I play the part of the dog,sometimes so like I'm your dog,
I'm holding the leash and let'ssee if you can keep this thing
loose while I'm about to go overand sniff another dog, or
something like that.
So I think it's importantpractice to do and typically if
I'm doing a dog-dog intro, I'mhandling one of the dogs.
Sometimes it's the client's dogand sometimes it's the dog

(21:38):
they're trying to introduce andI think it's the dog they're
trying to introduce.
And I think it's also helpfulbecause they can mimic what I'm
doing, like happy tones, looseleash, keep it short, recall the
dog away and they can just copyexactly what I'm doing.
And it really can be helpfulfor them to see that.
So yeah, do you do kind ofsimilar techniques with your
clients in those intros?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Absolutely.
I like to see a J in the leash.
So we want to see.
If the leash is straight, it'stight.
So sometimes terms can besubjective.
So if I say the leash should beloose or let's try to keep the
leash loose, that might meandifferent things to different
people.
So I instruct them.
I want to see that dip in theleash and if I don't see the dip

(22:20):
, that means the leash is tootight in the leash.
And if I don't say the dip,that means the leash is too
tight and we might practice.
For instance, well, a lot ofguardians are coming to us
because they have anxiety aboutthis, because they have a
history with dog conflictthemselves.
If people have never hadconflict or they don't have any
history of that or anxietyaround it, they're likely not

(22:40):
calling us.
If they can watch us and theycan see how it works and see
that it's successful, that'sgoing to help set the guardians
up to be able to relax andbreathe.
I often tell people are youbreathing?
Let's take a deep breath, andwe can practice as well with
neutral dogs.
So if I have a dog of my own,practice as well with neutral

(23:04):
dogs.
So if I have a dog of my own, Imight practice having them
introduce a dog to my dog.
Where I live we have thiswonderful dog park and I'm not a
dog park fan.
There's too many variables formy anxiety inside a dog park.
But when we go there we canpractice letting our dogs meet
other dogs through the fence andpractice those leash skills in

(23:26):
a very safe, controlled way.
So we've got social dogs.
They're coming up to the fenceand our guardians can practice
with their dog in a place whereworst case scenario is their dog
gets upset and then we can dosome damage control and help our
dogs feel better.
But it's not as risky as aface-to-face greeting where
everybody's teeth are involved.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and you brought up such a good
point too about previousexperiences in these cases, and
we really have to think aboutthe human side, because if
somebody's experienced fights intheir home, that's probably one
of the worst things I thinkpeople can experience is when
their own dogs are fighting andthe noise that it makes or maybe
the injuries that happen or theinjuries that happen to the

(24:07):
person trying to break up thefight.
That can be traumatic.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
And.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I find that if somebody's experienced that in
the past and then they're tryingto introduce a new dog maybe
you know they've, for whateverreason, they don't have the same
dog or dogs anymore, but theyget a new dog there's a lot of
nerves there.
So, they're going to have atough time in that greeting.
So we have to empathize on thatside as well.
So I'm glad you brought up thatpoint of really thinking
through with the client.
So let's talk about thepairings a little bit more.

(24:35):
So, because we're still talkingabout let's get these dogs in
the home, we've talked aboutcommunication skills get these
dogs in the home.
We've talked aboutcommunication skills, making
sure we're managing resources,going slow, how to handle the
leash during the introductions.
But if somebody's being superproactive and I know we
mentioned breed about you knowplay styles, interaction styles,

(24:56):
interests and you know breedspecific tendencies.
What about the sex of the dog?
Or maybe even the health?
Let's dive into some of themedical or it's not all medical,
but let's dive into the biology.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I should say stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Do you recommend any pairings?
You know female, female, male,male.
If you already have a male,should you get a female?
What is your usual advice onthat?

Speaker 2 (25:17):
My usual advice is to ensure the dogs have three to
four years between them, sothey're different ages.
So developmental stages mattera lot to dogs.
If we have two adolescents inthe home, if we have two dogs
who are both, you know, 18months old and we put them in
the home, well, their littlebrains are at a stage where

(25:38):
they're not able to processemotions all that great.
So they're in a developmentalstage where they're not able to
process emotions all that great.
So they're in a developmentalstage where they have bigger
feelings about things, lessability to process and react
thoughtfully to emotions, and weput two of them into house
together.
Well, that's going to be a lotharder than, say, we have a
really great, stable, mature,four or five-year-old dog and

(26:00):
now we bring home an18-month-old dog.
So age is one thing I look at.
Once they're older it's not ascritical.
But we want to think aboutthose developmental stages to
puppies.
If we have a six-month-oldpuppy and we bring home an
eight-week-old puppy, well,neither puppy necessarily has
great communication skills yetand now we put them together and

(26:24):
we can end up with some troublebecause they're learning
together but they're notnecessarily learning the things
that we hope they want to learn.
That we hope they'd learn.
Gender does matter as well forsome breeds.
It is well documented thatsame-sex aggression occurs in
certain breeds commonly.
So if we have those breeds it'sjust a kind of a roll of the

(26:47):
dice.
Not all dogs within a breed aregoing to exhibit the common
traits, just like not everyLabrador likes to swim, but most
do, or many do.
So I typically say male, female.
If you're an experienced dogowner and you want two females,
that is the hardest pairing.
So if we have aggressionbetween two dogs, if we have a

(27:10):
lot of conflict between them,the hardest pairing to fix, to
undo all of that conflict and tohave a harmonious relationship
is two similarly aged females.
Just things to think about.
Not that two females can't getalong, it's just if you get in
trouble that's not ideal.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, I agree, and typically in my experience it's
when the females do startfighting.
The fights are often severe andthey can escalate fairly
quickly and again, it's not inevery case.
I don't want to scare any ofthe listeners.
I might have two females in thehome.
There's plenty of cases wherethe dogs are getting along just
fine.
It's just that when theconflicts do start, I do find

(27:50):
that the severity is high.
You know, kind of holding agrudge, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
For my personal experience.
I have lots of dogs, I lovehaving a house full of dogs and
I brought home a one and a halfyear old intact male American
Eskimo, german Spitz type dogfrom the SPCA.
No known history other than hewas seized in an abuse case and

(28:19):
at home at the same time I hadseveral dogs.
I had two neutered males, aspayed female and I had an
intact male as well.
So when I brought them home wedid the parallel walkings, we
did all the gradualintroductions, but the little
Spitz intact male had a seriousissue with other intact males

(28:43):
and to this day he does not likemy male.
They're all neutered now but tothis day and this is eight
years ago he's turning 10, thelittle spits turning 10 in a
couple months.
To this day he gets along greatwith everybody.
I use him for socializing.
People bring their puppies,people bring their dogs.
He's wonderful, but he stilldoesn't like my other male that

(29:04):
was intact when I brought himhome.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
There's a grudge there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
And they get along fine.
They're not in a crate androtate.
But I do have to manage certainhigh arousal scenarios because
I know if there is conflictit'll be the little spits
directing it at my other male.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Let's talk about spay-neuter real quick, because
it's not super common in certainlocations of the world because
there's a higher percentage ofspay-neutering going on.
But we have listeners all overthe world and so some places
many of the dogs are intact.
So do you have any insight into, let's say, in my experience
it's typically one of the bigissues is an intact male, or

(29:49):
intact female too, but intactmales more so anywhere, Because
all the neutered males are.
Especially if an intact malegoes into like a dog park, it's
really interesting for them ordifferent.
And it can cause some conflicts,and I've seen that in the home
dynamic as well.
So do you have any thoughts onthat or insight?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, I'm not someone who thinks all dogs should be
spayed and neutered.
For sure.
In fact, my next dog that I'mplanning to get in a few years,
I don't intend to neuter him andwe will work with it.
However, when we live in aplace like where I live up in
Western Canada probably 99,pulling a number out of the air
here 99% of the animals arealtered.

(30:28):
When they do see that intactmale or smell that intact male,
that's a novel, exciting stimuliand so novelty is arousing,
Novelty is exciting.
And when dogs aren't used tosmelling those things, they can
get a little bit more intense intheir greeting and maybe a
little bit less polite becausethey really, really, really want

(30:51):
to go smell that and explorethat and experience that.
And then the intact males going,whoa, why is everybody all up
in my junk?
Literally, and they might get alittle protective of their
pieces back there.
So I think a lot of it stemsfrom two things.
One is that it's a novel smellfor a lot of dogs.

(31:13):
So the more dogs aren'tneutered, the more dogs will
have exposure to that and theless novel it'll be and less
arousing and exciting.
But also, when we have intactdogs they have bigger feelings,
like testosterone is going togive you bigger feelings in
theory and I'm not a biologistor vet or anything, so Other

(31:52):
people might know a lot moreabout this but those intact
males, I find we just need to doa little bit more help with
saying, hey, you know, this ishow we're going to interact,
this is how we can greet otherdogs.
So we just might need to do alittle bit more training, a
little bit more skill buildingaround, helping them communicate

(32:12):
appropriately with other dogs.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, I agree.
I think the novelty of it is aproblem for some dogs, because
if you look at some areas of theworld where let's take that 99%
figure you might go down tolike 70% or 50%, in some parts
of the world there's plenty ofintact dogs.
You don't see the conflictsthere.
So you have to wonder okay, isit?
Because dogs are like, oh,you've got your parts and I

(32:35):
don't, and life goes on asnormal, because I've seen that
before in my life?
Right, so something to consider.
So we're going to take a quickbreak before we get into some of
the deeper dive stuff.
Some of the pros might want tostick around and listen in to
some of the more advanced caseswe're going to be talking about
in just a moment.
But let's take a quick breakand we'll hear a word from our

(32:56):
sponsors and be right back.
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All right, we're back here withChristina Young.

(36:10):
We've been chatting aboutdog-dog aggression and now we're
going to get into some more ofthese advanced topics, so I
think one of the things we canstart off maybe is on the topic
of emotions in dogs and what arecommon emotions or underlying
systems in place that might befueling these conflicts.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
I mean, obviously, fear ofanother dog or strange dog can

(36:32):
be another one, but do you haveany kind of top of mind thoughts
on emotions in these cases?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yes, well, we know dogs feel emotions and whether
or not they feel them to thesame complexity that we feel we
don't really know, complexitythat we feel we don't really
know.
A lot of times people willattribute our own human emotions
to the dogs, which can help usempathize with them a little bit
.
But it also it's important tojust take a step back and think

(36:59):
about what's going on for thosedogs.
So the emotions that I commonlysee in dogs would be
frustration or happiness oranxiety, and anxiety and fear
can encompass a whole lot ofthings that we might see in our
dogs or see causing behaviors inour dogs.
Those emotions drive behaviors.
So what is causing our dogs toact the way that they are?

(37:22):
Are they afraid?
Are they a distance seeking?
Are they just wanting to playand don't know how?
There can be lots of differentreasons or emotions behind it,
and having kind of an idea ofwhat's going on will help us
choose a path forward for thatdog.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
We often see frustration as sort of one of
the fuels for aggressiveresponses.
What are some frustrations dogscan experience in the home,
especially a multi-dog home andlet's say it's even a small home
?
What do you commonly see thatsort of builds this and one of

(38:00):
the dogs says you know, I'mreally getting annoyed or upset,
and yeah, I'm throwing outlabels here, but about the other
dog in the home?
So what are things people cando to avoid that?

Speaker 2 (38:10):
We want to ensure all of the dogs have places in the
home where they can rest, havesafe places where they can rest
and not be bugged by other dogsor kids or other humans anybody
just somewhere where they canabsolutely rest and feel safe,
and I think that is one of thekey problems.
So a dog might becomefrustrated when they're sleepy

(38:34):
or they just want to chill outand chew on a toy or chew on a
bone or a chew toy, and everytime they go to relax, another
dog is jumping on them or tryingto share their sleeping space
or trying to share that bone orthat toy, and they never really
just get that decompression timeto settle down and just be

(38:54):
relaxed in their own home.
Just like us, we would like togo home and feel that we can
just chill out on the couch orchill out in our office,
wherever, and just relax and dothings that make us feel good,
and dogs need that same thing.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, I call it the safe zone and I'm glad that many
professionals are now usingthat concept or have been for
some time, and it's reallyimportant because even in your
owner-directed aggression casesso you have dogs that have
issues with the person in thehome or somebody they're trying
to resource guard away fromtheir other person.

(39:30):
That is important for the humanalso to have a safe space.
So not only should the dog havea safe space, but the human
should be able to say I needsome time away from the dog.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Those are rare cases.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
But it's so important for any animal human or dog to
just have a place where they canbe unbothered so you don't have
that frustration, that anxiety,that stress right.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
And it's important, just like we mentioned before,
to consider the human part ofthis team, because the humans
often aren't considered nearlyenough when we're looking at dog
training.
We're called in to train thedogs, but the humans are part of
that team as well and if thehumans are stressed, if the
humans aren't getting that resttime, then the team isn't going

(40:12):
to be set up for success andable to learn and able to
improve or progress as quicklyas well.
So I love that you brought thatup, because it's important that
all of us have that time and ifyou need to just go have a bath
or go have a shower withoutyour dog in the bathroom, it's
okay to do that.
A lot of humans feel guiltywhen we don't spend all our time

(40:35):
with our dogs or when the dogsaren't both with us all the time
, and addressing that like it'sokay, dogs are okay.
If we teach them how to beseparated, not isolated from us
or from each other.
That's a good thing.
That's a really important skillto teach them and it's a very

(40:55):
important skill for the humanstoo.
It's okay to not have a dog allover you all the time.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, it's okay to pee in peace.
Then that's what you're sayingyes.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Unless you have a Doberman, then you can't.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
So let's talk more about the human side there.
That element sometimes can be asignificant factor in the cause
for the conflict.
So let's say you have a dogthat is guarding their owner as
a resource away from the otherdog.
What are some things thathumans are doing in those cases
that can exacerbate the behavior, kind of set that context up,

(41:32):
and what do you do to resolvethat?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
A lot of the guardians will assign our own
emotions to our dogs, likejealousy.
Sure, dogs can feel jealousy.
It's kind of an anxiety, butit's not necessarily the same as
us humans will feel it.
So, for instance, if our dog isbeside us and we're petting
them and they are with us andthey're now guarding us, and we

(41:55):
get up and say, hey, you'redoing good, here's a cookie.
Stay here, kiddo.
I can go pet this dog overthere, that's okay.
The dogs necessarily aren'tgoing to feel anxiety about that
if we help them learn that it'sokay that we pat the other dog
or cuddle the other dog.
We want to create patterns forour dogs that we say, when I go

(42:17):
give this dog a cookie, goodthings happen to you as well and
a lot of owners struggle withthat.
So a lot of owners strugglewith I want to be able to cuddle
both dogs.
I can't cuddle both dogs at thesame time.
That makes me feel icky, thatmakes me feel like I'm favoring
one over the other.
We see it a lot when we have anolder dog in the home and that

(42:40):
older dog might not want thepuppy around a lot.
So now the guardian wants bothdogs with them, but both dogs
aren't wanting to be together.
So what do we do?
Teaching people that it's okaynot to be quote, unquote, fair
like just because one dog getsone thing, it doesn't mean the
other dog needs it too.

(43:01):
In my home I currently havethree dogs.
One of them sleeps in bed withus.
The other two either sleep intheir crates or on the couch,
wherever they choose, but theydon't have the option of
sleeping in bed with us.
Just my 10-year-old male does,and that's okay.
The dogs don't care about that.
That's not unfair.
They're not going to getjealous because we've set them

(43:23):
up so that, hey, this is whereyou go, you sleep here, this is
the routine, this is the habit.
You get cookies in your crate,they're crate, trained, or the
couch is comfortable.
It has some nice dog blanketson it.
This is where good thingshappen, and they don't all need
to have access to you equally.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
You can have different rules, just packing up
there a little bit too.
When we're talking about whenwe reinforce things, or when a
client should be looking to say,oh, when should I cuddle?
When should I pet this one,when should I give this one a
treat, that can be reallyconfusing because, let's face it
, most clients are pretty goodat saying no or hey, I can see
growling at the other dog, knockit off, which can be

(44:02):
communication, and sometimesthat's all you need is just say
hey, I don't appreciate whatyou're doing there, but, however
, that doesn't teach the dogswhat to do.
instead, of course, as we know,in all of our aggression cases
we need to help them learn whatto do.
I find that the most difficultpart is when to do those things,
when to reinforce your dog,whether it's petting,

(44:22):
acknowledgement, praise, food,toys, play, whatever we're using
for a reinforcer.
I find that one of the mostdifficult things is when to do
that, and I'll give you anexample.
You know my dog, castagna.
She's a chilean street dog andwe have a chilean street cat
named renardo also, and ifthere's food around, she's never
done anything to the cat andshe's a lovely, sweet, very
sweet dog, but she's she willgive him the eye and sometimes

(44:45):
we call it bullying him, himLike she'll do the paw over his
back kind of thing, just nothingconcerning kind of way.
But it's still Bernardo doesn'tlike it.
So we try to discourage that.
But we also want to reinforcealternative behaviors.
So like when he jumps up on thebed, the animals are, they
could be anywhere in our houseat any time, so, but when she

(45:06):
jumps up on the bed she'salready there and we're like if
we're eating in bed or somethinglike that, she will give him
the look, right, she'll likegive him the look, and you know
she's going to start doing thatbullying behavior.
So the timing of it's reallyimportant.
So what I've done over the lastyou know, few months is just
start reinforcing her.
For the moment, he's jumping upin the bed and she just
instantly notices him, andthat's worked, because now she

(45:29):
sees him jump up there and shelooks at me like yeah, he's up
here.
And so that timing, though, isnot easy, and I think some of
the listeners are probablyagreeing like so how do you
coach clients on?
Like okay, here's a red flag,here's not, this is good, this
is not.
Here's what to look for, here'swhat you need to avoid.
That part's tricky.
So do you have any tips there?
That not here's what to lookfor.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Here's what you need to avoid.
That part's tricky.
So do you have any tips there?
That's very tricky and thatactually is one of the more
common issues when one dog isalready on a bed or a couch and
the other jumps up.
In your case, cat and dog thetrick is to be proactive, not
reactive.
So if we're reacting once theanimal is stressed, so once
they're going oh, I don't knowabout this then the oh I don't

(46:10):
know about this emotion is nowpart of how we do that behavior.
So jumping up on the bed is nowpackaged with I'm not sure
about this.
That's a part of how that wholebehavior is going to happen.
And so if we can be moreproactive, we say, okay, I know,
when Fido comes in and theyjump up on the bed, that is very

(46:30):
likely to happen.
So I'm going to proactively say,hey, if you notice the cat or
the other dog and you justbefore you've gone, oh, I don't
know about you.
I'm going to say, hey, here's acookie.
Or hey, come on over here andget some pets.
Or do you want a piece of mytoast?
If we can be proactive in itand catch it before they're all

(46:51):
feeling those negative emotions,then getting up on the bed and
then feeling interested orcurious or hey, what's in it for
me up here.
That becomes how that littlebehavior package happens and
that emotion becomes a part ofit.
So ideally we catch it beforethe dogs are anxious and before
there's conflict between them tohelp them set those patterns.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
And in that arrangement I guess we can call
it is, we're really reinforcinga desirable alternative behavior
.
Because we could argue, if thedog's not experiencing any
negative balanced emotion andseeing that particular stimulus
cat, dog, other animal jumpingup or about to jump up then we
technically at that point aren'tcounter conditioning.
We could be classicallyconditioning though at the same

(47:35):
time often are.
But it's interesting to kind ofthink through.
It is all right if the dog whichwe some, let's say, icky
feeling we're seeing the catjump up, we'd be classically
counter conditioning if we arepairing that particular event
with food.
But we could also reinforcethat desirable alternative

(47:56):
behavior of, hey, you just seethe cat jumping up but you're
not going after that or doinganything else undesirable.
So there's a couple things inplay there, but we often don't
get that deep into the scienceof it with our clients right
Kind of talking through thismore for the dog pros listening
in.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I think for the average guardian if they're
seeing stress.
There's already been stress forsome time.
So when we think of being moreproactive before there's
conflict, before there's alreadybeen stress for some time so
when we think of being moreproactive before there's
conflict, before there's visiblestress the average person even
probably a pet pro there's stilllikely to be some stress there
before we can actually see itand process it and recognize it

(48:36):
and then act on it.
So even if we're saying beproactive before we see those
signs, we still might be counterconditioning too.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, yeah.
So proactivity is a great wayto frame it, you know, because
when we're proactive aboutreally any aggression case,
you're going to, nine times outof 10, avoid the problem
behaviors we're seeing.
So let's shift here a littlebit into prognosis.
So when we have difficult casesand let's face it, many of
these cases don't always have asuccessful resolution or what

(49:06):
the client would wish for,because they're animals just
like people.
We can't.
And the analogy I use is justthe divorce rate in the US.
Right, if we're so good atmodifying behavior in human
psychology or psychiatry ortherapy, then we should be able
to do it with dogs.
But we're not actually ineither world and we might see,
you know, sometimes that 50%.

(49:28):
There's quotes.
You know what's the divorcerate?
56, depends which countryyou're in, but it's, it can be
high.
So same thing that can happenwith dogs is that we can't
always make them get along,especially if they've never
gotten along at all.
It's like you know, if you goon your first date on a dating
app, it turns out terribly.
You're not going to expect thetwo people to live together.
So why would we do the samewith dogs, right.

(49:49):
So in that regard, in theprognosis, what are some things
that make you say, okay, this isprobably not going to work out.
We've tried everything we can.
We've gone through all thetypical processes you go through
.
Maybe you've consulted withother professionals, you know,
let's say you've done the worksveterinary, behaviorist, you've
done meds, you've, like triedeverything.
What are your indicators thatsay we need to explore other

(50:12):
options?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Risk factor is one.
So if there is a big sizedifference between the dogs, if
there is a history of damage oreven psychological damage, where
one dog is feeling appears tobe feeling really stressed,
quite often that's a significantrisk.
So we're going to look at howmuch conflict is in this home,

(50:36):
what's going on and how is thataffecting the quality of life
and how is the management thatwe're having to put into place?
How is that affectingeveryone's quality of life,
including the guardians?
Every being has the right and Ifirmly believe this, not a
privilege, it's a right to feelsafe in your own home.
And if we have tried all thethings and either the humans or

(51:01):
the dogs aren't feeling saferegardless of whether they are
safe, they're not feeling safein the home after trying all the
different things then it's timeto look at other options,
especially if there's childrenor vulnerable people in the home
, if there's conflict andsomeone isn't feeling safe or

(51:25):
maybe really isn't safe, thatties back into the risk
assessment and that's key tomaking sure that we get one or
more dogs out of the home, inwhatever way that might mean.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
What are some criteria for rehoming?
Let's say that the client hasthe option to rehome one of
their dogs or they have theresource availability.
Is there some criteria?
Something you say, oh well, itwould probably be okay for this
dog, but unethical for this dog.
Do you have some guidelinesthere?

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I have strong feelings about rehoming
aggressive dogs with bitehistories not all bite histories
, certainly, but if the dogposes a significant risk to the
community then I would thinktwice about rehoming that dog.
It's one thing for a dog tolive in a home where they
already have people investedemotionally, financially,

(52:15):
time-wise.
Someone loves that dog andthey're going to put the time in
and we can put a lot more workinto that scenario.
But to take that dog that mightthey're going to put the time
in and we can put a lot morework into that scenario.
But to take that dog that mighthave some significant risk
factors to the general publicand say I'm going to now attach
you to a random human who may ormay not understand what they're
getting into, who may or maynot follow the safety procedures

(52:37):
, that becomes, you know, maybethis dog isn't rehomeable, maybe
we rehome the other one or wemight pursue a behavioral
euthanasia for those dogs aswell.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, it's good advice and good thoughts on that
too.
It's not always an easydecision.
Well, it's never an easydecision.
I should say but in terms of theavailability of that resource
for finding another home can bereally difficult because there's
certainly no shortage of thesedogs that need homes and very
difficult decision for a clientthat has had this dog,

(53:11):
especially for many years can bereally really tough and
challenging.
So let's shift now to somethingmore of a positive note before
we end, because we like to endmore of a positive note here end
because we like to end more ona positive note here.
Can you think of an advancedcase with a positive outcome?
You've worked lately.
So walk us through somethingmaybe where it was a really
tricky case but you worked yourmagic and you know kind of give

(53:32):
us some of the nuances of thattoo, if you could.
What worked for you, whatdidn't, what are some things you
discovered in that case?

Speaker 2 (53:43):
some things you discovered in that case.
I actually just received a textupdate from a client that makes
me so happy for one of thesecases.
So this client has multipledogs already smaller dogs, 25
pound dogs, two of them bothreactive.
One has significant health andreactivity issues.
Bite history, humans, dogs.
He's very lucky to live withthe human that he lives with.

(54:06):
They love him and keep him safeand do things really really
well for him.
But it is not easy then to bringa puppy into that home, and
they did so we started workingand planning before the puppies
were actually even bred.
So we started working andplanning before the puppies were
actually even bred.
This owner is so proactive, butwe have brought this.

(54:27):
She's about 40 pounds and she'sabout 10 months now.
We brought the puppy home ateight weeks and the puppy and
this little reactive dogactually are playing, like
they're engaging in play, whichwe didn't know if that was going
to be part of the journey ornot.
It might've been more of amanagement scenario for a very,

(54:48):
very long time until the olderdog was no longer here, but
they're actually playing andthat makes me so happy because
what that means is that we helpthe little dog feel safe and we
helped incorporate the puppyinto his life in such a way that
his confidence grew, his socialskills grew and now he's

(55:08):
actually playing, which is sucha nice thing for a little scared
dog to be able to experiencethose emotions, to be able to
experience those behaviors insuch a happy way.
Now Christina, you know I'm notgoing to let you go until you
tell us a little bit more abouthow you did that or some of the
nuances.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
In that case, that made that successful.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yes, firstly, the owners are extremely committed
and extremely committed tomanagement and taking things
slow.
So puppy comes home.
I have been working with thereactive dog for some time.
I still can't hold his leash.
He's not a dog that trustspeople, he trusts his people,
that's it.
And so we would bring the puppyon parallel walks.

(55:53):
I would handle the puppy'sleash and the guardian would
take the leash of the reactivedog and we would just do no
contact walks up until the pointwhere the reactive dog would
sniff things that the puppysniffed and then they would
sniff the puppy and we reallyenforced those two to three
second rules Little sniff andbreak away and think about it.

(56:14):
Little sniff, break away andthink about it Until they were
able to just go for side-by-sidewalks and sniff things together
.
That was all done outside ofthe home before the dogs were
allowed shared spaces inside thehome.
Inside the home we had X-pensand baby gates and covers and
all these things, so both dogscould be included but separated

(56:37):
inside the home until they wereready.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
How long did that take?
Would you say that process?

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Puppy is 10 months old now.
They are now at the point whereshe can be inside the house at
lower arousal times, but shestill has a drag leash on her
because the older dogs havegreat recalls and that's
something that was reinforcedmany times in preparation for
the puppy and the puppy isgetting there but she has a drag

(57:04):
leash on her just in case andwe don't put them together
inside the home yet at higharousal times meal times,
someone coming home, that typeof stuff, but they can be in the
yard together off leash.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Excellent, so really still good management in the
home, which should be doneanyways, right, you should be
doing that with all dogs toavoid issues in the first place.
So that's a wonderful outcomeand that's kind of the pros and
cons of puppies, right Is thatthey?
You know they call it puppylicense, so they can kind of
with some dogs, not all dogs,but with some dogs, they can get

(57:38):
away with more.
You know, in a sense of theolder dogs like oh, you're just
a puppy, sometimes not, though,so don't take that as a false
positive.
If you're listening in,sometimes it can go wrong
because the old dog's like getthis puppy away from me.
But it sometimes can go reallywell.
I had a similar case to a CairnTerrier that the clients had
gotten a new golden retrieverpuppy and you know, the puppy's

(58:00):
smaller than the dog at first,or maybe about the same size,
but then same thing though thisgrumpy old Cairn was like.
I don't want you near me atfirst with so slow introduction,
but then, of course, the goldengets bigger and bigger.
But they got along wonderfullybecause, well, golden puppy was
just the sweetest, softest,squishy thing and very playful,

(58:22):
very social, came from goodlines and it worked out
wonderfully.
They play well together.
But it was this very similar,very slow methodical process to
ensure that all of the firstimpressions were good
impressions for the two of them.
So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Do we have time for another situation?

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I don't want people to think that we can only be
successful if it's bringing homea new dog.
Another situation I hadrecently was two small dogs that
were already fighting.
They were fighting overresources.
They were fighting.
When people came in the doorthey were fighting.
If one dog left and came back,they were fighting.

(59:06):
If the cat ran they wouldredirect onto each other.
There was lots going on forthose two small dogs that had
been living together, for Ithink they were their same age
males two and a half and under10 pounds.
But these dogs were scrappingmany times a day, every day, and
it was becoming really hard fortheir guardians to then process

(59:26):
that or live with that and thequality of life of the two dogs.
Everyone was always on edge.
When's it going to happen now?
Who's going to grab which dogand hopefully not get bit?
So we just separated those twodogs a little bit.
We taught them some skills, wetaught them some stationing, we
taught them some operantbehaviors sit down, hand touch,
go to a bed.
We taught them a bunch ofskills and once we gave those

(59:49):
little dogs appropriate outletsfor their energy and mental
stimulation and some boundariesand saying you know, when one
dog runs.
Your job isn't then to chasethem, unless it's an invitation
to play.
You know, go to your bed, get acookie, or come over here and
jump in my lap, get a cookie.
You have a different job to dowhen one dog runs or if the cat

(01:00:13):
runs and those two dogs are nowliving magically together
wonderfully, after just a fewsessions, and we've actually
paused our package because theydon't need me anymore.
The dog's doing great.
That's amazing I know it's sohappy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Yeah, it's amazing what you can do when you teach
environmental cues like that.
When this happens, do thisinstead and I'll pay off way
better for you.
Such a good example of, youknow, reinforcing desirable
alternative behaviors.
So, speaking of which, I'd liketo kind of talk about the
Guardian course.
So one thing that's going to belaunched, probably right before
the launch of this episode, isthe Aggressive Dog Guardian

(01:00:50):
course.
So it's going to be geared.
You know we have the Aggressionand Dogs Master Course.
That's geared for professionals, but Christina is our Dog
Aggression Specialist in the dogguardian course.
So tell us more about whatyou're working on there, or
what's in there now, actually,because at the time of this
episode it'll be up and running.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Oh, it's so exciting.
My portion is the dog-to-dogaggression part, predominantly
inside the home or anotheroff-leash type scenarios where
you might be at the dog park orhiking with your dog, that type
of thing where dogs are allowedto interact more freely, no
leashes necessarily involved,and in there we talk about why

(01:01:30):
the conflict happens, what tolook for, but also kind of a
step-by-step if you're thinkingabout bringing home a dog or if
you have conflict between yourdogs in your house, what are the
processes that I would gothrough, what are the skills I
would teach and how to teachthose so that you can help the
dogs feel safe and be safe athome and to reduce all that

(01:01:51):
conflict so that we canreintegrate them and have
everyone just hopefully livingmore harmoniously and with a lot
less stress in their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Amazing and you've got step-by-step modules.
We have what we call modules,which are individual recorded
video lessons in there foranybody on a variety of
different conflicts as well asmanagement and safety and how to
resolve these issues.
So I am very much happy thatyou are doing that for us and
have created this part of thecourse.

(01:02:21):
So looking forward to that, andis there anything else you want
to give the listeners to lookforward to?
That you're working on?

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I am the person of many projects.
I always have lots of stuffgoing on.
Right now.
I'm very excited about my deepdives where I work with people
in small groups to do work onintra household aggression
issues or other dog to dogaggression issues, and what I
love about that is the community, so you get to meet other

(01:02:51):
people that are going throughthe same thing you are and you
get to cheer each other on and Iam having so much fun with
those and developing how thoseare delivered and how what kind
of material is in those.
And we're having so much funwith those and developing how
those are delivered and whatkind of material is in those and
we're having so much fun and somuch progress.
That's kind of my new bigproject.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Love it, I love it, and we'll, of course, link to
those in the show notes.
Christina, thank you so muchfor joining us again and we look
forward to seeing you again inthe future.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's always so much funchatting with you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
It was so wonderful to connect with Christina again
and dig deep into the nuances ofdog-dog aggression within the
home.
Her thoughtful andcompassionate approach offers a
lifeline to guardians navigatingthese tough situations, and her
commitment to helping dogs andpeople feel safe and supported
really shines through.
And if you're ready to godeeper into understanding and
helping dogs with aggression,visit AggressiveDogcom.
Whether you're a professionalor a dedicated dog guardian,

(01:03:51):
you'll find everything from theAggression in Dogs Master Course
, which is the mostcomprehensive program of its
kind, to expert-led webinars,informative articles and the
Aggression and Dogs Conferencehappening from September 26th
through 28th 2025 in Charlotte,north Carolina, with both
in-person and virtual options.
And don't forget to check outour Help for Dogs with

(01:04:12):
Aggression bonus episodes, whichare solo shows where I walk you
through real-world strategiesfor issues just like resource
guarding, fear-based aggression,territorial behavior and more.
Just hit, subscribe or head tothe show notes for more info.
Thanks for listening in and, asalways, stay well, my friends.
Bye.