Standing Up for the Little Ones: Abbey Johnson on Advocacy and Respect for Small Dogs

"Can't we get a little respect?!"
Our pint-sized companions often don't get the respect they deserve, a topic we dive into with Abbey Johnson, a keen advocate for small dogs. Abbey shares her journey from initially fostering a small dog with behavior issues, to becoming a well-known defender for these little champs, shedding light on their unique needs, training strategies, and the need for representation in dog-related conversations.

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ABOUT ABBEY:

Abbey Johnson CPDT-KA, FDM
"Understanding animals and their behavior has always been a passion of mine. I grew up surrounded by dogs, cats, horses, and various other types of animals throughout my childhood onwards. The more time I spend with animals, the more I realize the disconnected communication we often tend to have with them. Animals, and dogs especially, are always talking to us. It’s our job to stop, listen, and kindly teach them about our human world!

I have an extensive background working with shelter and rescue dogs. Stemming from this comes my special love for small breed dogs, and although I work with all dogs from Chihuahuas to Great Danes, I get a lot of satisfaction from helping people reach their full potential with their small breed dogs, who can often be overlooked and misunderstood. I strive to make my two rescued small breed dogs, Phoebe and Pocket, an example to the fact that small dogs are just as trainable and just as deserving of a fulfilled life as any other dog! We spend most of our days learning tricks, practicing nosework, adventuring out in nature, or curled up watching movies on the couch.

I graduated in 2018 with my Bachelor’s in Psychology from Auburn University, and continued on to work for over 5 years in animal sheltering/rescue, where I generated a lot of experience handling various dogs with different degrees of behavioral needs. From there, I pursued my passion for training by becoming a multi-certified professional dog trainer, and haven’t looked back! I strive to be approachable, accessible, and non-judgemental when working with clients. My goal is always “progress over perfection,” and I will never try to hold you to unrealistic or unhelpful standards when working together. We do better when we know better, and all of us always have something new to

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
If small dogs had a theme song, it would probably be
Aretha Franklin's respect,because, let's face it, small
dogs certainly don't receiveenough RESB-ECT in our society,
and this is especially true inaggression cases.
Abby Johnson joins me for thisepisode, which is packed with
useful tips and strategies tohelp our small dog companions in

(00:25):
this world where everything canbe so much bigger and often
scary.
Abby works for Positive Futuresand is a CPTT-KA and a family
dog mediator.
She also runs a small breed dogtraining Facebook group she
recently started where peoplecan get free professional
training advice for their smallbreeds.
You can find that by searchingup Small Breed Dog Training all

(00:46):
one word on Facebook.
And you definitely have tocheck out Abby's TikTok account,
where she posts many usefultips and strategies for training
and working with small dogs andchihuahuas, and you can find
that at the Positive Chihuahuas.
And if you're on Instagram, herhandle is at the underscore
positive underscore chihuahuas.
And if you are enjoying thebuddy end of the dog, you can

(01:08):
support the podcast by going toaggressivedogcom, where there
are a variety of resources tolearn more about helping dogs
with aggression issues,including the upcoming
Aggression in Dogs conferencehappening from September 29th
through October 1st 2023 inChicago, illinois, with both
in-person and online options.
You can also learn more aboutthe Aggression in Dogs master

(01:29):
course, which is the mostcomprehensive course available
anywhere in the world forlearning how to work with and
help dogs with aggression issues.
Hey guys, welcome back to thebitey end of the dog.
I have a super special guestthis week, abby Johnson, who I
discovered somewhat throughTikTok and the Positive

(01:51):
Chihuahuas channel and otherplaces as well.
She's on Instagram, definitelygetting all kinds of great
information about small dogsthat we don't get enough chance
to talk about, I think.
So welcome to the show, abby.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Thank you so much.
I'm really happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, we're going to dive right into the conversation
.
I think we have lots to talkabout.
So first, what got you intofocusing on small dogs in the
first place?
What's your interest?
What got you picked into that?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, so it was definitely not always my
interest.
I kind of used to be a haterwhenever it came to small dogs.
I played a lot into a lot ofthe similar stereotypes that we
hear about and I'm sure we'regoing to talk about a lot in
this episode and I actuallyended up changing my mind
whenever I got my first dog,phoebe.
So this was back in college.

(02:39):
I was a really big newbie totraining in general and I took
her in as a foster and kind offigured out that she has all of
the stereotypical behaviorissues of small breed dogs.
She's got the stranger danger.
She would resource guard.
She had some fear and anxietyissues and I ended up keeping

(03:00):
her and so she was kind of myfirst little dipping my toe into
small dog ownership.
As I went through the shelterworld I kind of noticed that
there was a lot of discrepancybetween the way that small dogs
who came into the shelterbehaved or were treated versus
the larger breed dogs and thatkind of struck a chord with me

(03:24):
as I continued to work throughthe shelter system and then I
ended up foster failing anothersmall dog, my second dog, pocket
, who is my little socialite.
I love her so much, and she waskind of the one that helped me
dive straight into being reallyinto small breed dogs.
So whenever I got into trainingthis past couple of years, I

(03:46):
decided that I wanted to makethat my niche, because I've
noticed that there is a reallybig gap in the conversation
whenever it comes to small dogsand they're kind of left out.
So I think it's a reallyimportant niche that needs to be
talked about more.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
For sure, and everything you're saying
resonates with me.
Actually, my first small dogwas this little dog named Izzy
and very similar same thing likecame with all kinds of issues,
and I was never a small dogperson either and I kind of was
like you know, because most ofmy work I was seeing larger dogs
.
Yeah, and she really got me tolove small dogs, because how can

(04:19):
you not right, once you youknow because you know dogs are
dogs are dogs in the sense ofwhen we're working as trainers
in a way, and how much we lovedogs, and so when you have a
small dog come into your life, Imean you just you just hooked
right and so that's whathappened to me.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Absolutely, it's a different kind of love, for sure
, once you get a really goodrelationship with a really small
dog.
I mean, they're obviouslyadorable because of their size
and on top of that, they have aton of love to give if you give
them the chance.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
So how many, how many dogs do you have now?

Speaker 2 (04:50):
I have two, so I just have Pocket and Phoebe right
now.
We will see about number threein the next coming years or so,
but for now just the two of them.
They're both my foster fails.
Phoebe's a little terrierChihuahua mix.
She's a tripod, so she only hasthree legs.
And then Pocket is my littleChihuahua thing as well, so
she's mostly Chihuahua, but whoknows what else is in there?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I was thinking about you just yesterday because
I stumbled upon this TikTokvideo, was sort of a senior dog
type of situation.
But also I saw a couple ofyounger dogs but there's like
probably this woman had like 50dogs, like all around tons of
small dogs but a few larger onesin the mix.
I'm like I'm going to have toask Abby, how many small dogs
when you think of I, sometimesyou see like 10, 15 small dogs,

(05:37):
just as they don't take as muchspace.
It's the largest.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yes, I'm trying my hardest not to become that
person until I'm in a placewhere I can do that.
It's really hard.
I have to pass up all of thelittle Chihuahuas for adoption
posts on Facebook and stare atit a little bit too long and
then move on.
But we've just got two for now,yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, now, speaking of social media, we often see
small dogs being subjected tothings that shouldn't be
subjected to any dogs but, forwhatever reason, it's happening
much more, and at least from myfeed to small dogs.
So what are some of the commonthings you're seeing and what
are things you want to talkabout to help educate people
about the plight of small dogs,especially on social media?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
So yeah, if you follow me on TikTok at all,
you've probably seen me talkabout this at length.
This is something that I talkabout all day long because it's
all over the internet.
It is in a huge disproportioncompared to large dogs.
Of course, you see the socialmedia accounts occasionally with
the Rottweiler or the otherlarge breed dog, but there's a

(06:40):
massive disproportion betweenthe amount of videos that you're
going to see of Chihuahuas andsmall breed dogs attacking their
handler for going to pet themwhile they're laying on their
bed or guarding something fromthem, and people are out here
intentionally antagonizing thatresponse from their dogs because
they think it's funny, becauseobviously the Chihuahua can't

(07:01):
send you to the hospital aseasily as the Labrador Retriever
can, and so there are I mean,entire social media accounts
dedicated to just poking fun attheir small dog and their small
dog having these massivevisceral reactions and just
posting it to the internet.
And if you go through thecomment sections of these videos

(07:23):
, that go super viral becausethe algorithm loves drama and
anytime you see a dog explodingon your screen, you're going to
sit there and watch the wholevideo.
But if you go through thecomment sections of these videos
, it's really disturbing.
Honestly, you'll see peopletalking about you know, I'll
kick any Chihuahua that I see,or this is why I won't ever get
a small dog All kinds of thingsthat are perpetuating

(07:47):
significant harm right, so youknow, we're encouraging people
not to get these dogs.
This is how dogs end up inshelters.
We're encouraging people to beviolent towards dogs who are
having really significant stressreactions.
Right, so it's a really seriousissue.
To me.
It's very hard to get people totake it seriously because
people don't take small dogsseriously in general in the

(08:10):
first place, but it's somethingthat we definitely have to start
calling out and calling peoplefor how we see they're treating
their dogs right.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, and thank you for doing that, because
you're actually it's not easy tobe on social media and growing
such a big channel.
You've got a lot of followersand also advocating, so you're
kind of like the perfect personfor this, because not all you
know we have.
You know people that advocatefor you know, like, for instance
, senior dogs, but oftentimesit's difficult to also, you know

(08:42):
, keep up on social media andalso follow the trends and also,
like, pay attention to thecomments and have the time for
that.
So kudos to you for doing that.
And the things that we'rethinking about too is that you
know the problem I have.
I have multiple problems with it, but one of the biggest things
I think of is you know kidswatching that stuff.
So you know somebody's 12 yearold child, the 10 year old child
that may not grasp theparticular risks of doing that

(09:05):
and then going to try it withtheir own dog and maybe it's a
dog that is much larger too, sothey don't equate the size often
, right, and of course, youdon't see people doing this.
You sometimes see it, but mostof the time you don't see people
trying this with like arottweiler or Connie Corso or
something that is going to besignificantly more threatening.
Why do you think that is likethe perception of oh, it's just

(09:27):
a small dog, so it can't reallydo damage, what?
What do you think that is just,you know, a matter of size, or
is it more to it?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think that it really comes down to it being a
pop culture thing more thananything else, because small
dogs are typically known just by, like the regular lay person,
as you know, a low maintenancedog, a really convenient dog to
have their purse dogs right.
So they're super easy to takecare of because they fit into

(09:55):
small, convenient spaces,they're easy to carry around
with you, when in reality that'snot necessarily true, but we
can get into that in a littlebit they are definitely just the
same whenever it comes to liketheir cognitive and emotional
abilities in terms of, like youknow, labrador retriever or a
great Dane right.
So there's no differencebetween the two.

(10:18):
But it's really easy, wheneveryou see them as these easy,
convenient dogs that are superlow maintenance, don't need a
whole lot of care, to also saythey don't need a whole lot of
respect and they don't need tobe treated the same way,
emotionally and relationshipwise, as any other size dog.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, yeah, in relation to the size aspect too,
one thing that also concerns meis that you know people think
small dog can't do that muchdamage.
But you know an interestingfact, if you really dive into
the details, like so they talkabout in the book dog bites it's
from Daniel Mills and a bunchof other authors but they look
at the forensics of dog bitesand the way the teeth set in the

(10:57):
jaw structure of some dogs, solike a Chihuahua, can actually
do more damage to a child thansome of the larger breeds.
And so it's a considerationthat we shouldn't take these
small dogs for granted, terms ofthe amount of damage they could
do, because of what we're doingto them in the name of some
funny video, right?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yep, absolutely.
They have the same amount ofteeth in their mouth as any
other dog does.
I know I saw somebody on socialmedia talking about how she was
either holding a Chihuahua or,like went to get in the
Chihuahua's face and theChihuahua ended up biting her
and took her eyelid off, so shehad to go to the hospital for
that and go through all kinds oflike reconstructive surgery.

(11:36):
So it's definitely notsomething that's as common
whenever you hear about smalldog attacks versus large dog
attacks, but they still havevery much capacity to do damage.
Even though that's not the onlyreason we shouldn't be
antagonizing them that way, it'sstill really important to keep
that in mind, especially withfamilies with small children and

(11:57):
people who are not super dogsavvy.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, yeah Again, I mean anybody who's creating
those videos, hopefullylistening in pause for thought
to think about the people thatare watching that, the kids that
are watching that, that mightreplicate that at home, right?
So let's jump into some of thetraining aspects or
considerations.
So maybe let's look at generaltraining and then we'll jump
into, like, the aggression stuff.
So what are considerations?

(12:20):
You have small dog, butobviously there's some in terms
of the mechanics of what we needto do with training.
So what are some things you'vepicked up over the years?

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, so on one hand, small dogs are just like every
other dog with needs.
So that is something that'sreally important to me in my
training methodologies to makesure that I am meeting all of my
dog's needs.
Before I try to address a quoteunquote training problem, right
, because there are so manytraining issues that we see that

(12:50):
are just stemming from a dogwho doesn't have all of their
needs met.
And this is something I reallyhave to push home with small dog
clients because of that priorstereotype that they understood
about the dogs being lowmaintenance, not needing to go
for walks, not needing exercise,not needing mental stimulation.
A lot of my clients don't havean even ever heard of what

(13:11):
enrichment is.
So we kind of have to start onthat really foundation of making
sure that all of the dog'sneeds are met and also making
sure, especially with smallbreed dogs, that they feel safe
in their living situation andtheir relationship with their
people.
That's something that I see alot that is not really picked up
on or noticed by the client.

(13:33):
So we have to do a little bit ofadjustment with clients first
on the human end of things, tomake sure that the dogs feeling
safe in their interactions withthe person and they're you know
they have a good relationshipfoundation to start on before we
get started with any morecomplex training, especially
because a lot of people don'treally consider how their size

(13:54):
in relation to their small dogmakes their interactions a lot
more intimidating.
So even if you have a small dogthat isn't showing aggression
based issues, I still see a lotof dogs showing avoidant body
language or, you know, fearfulbody language whenever their
person is simply just trying toreach down and give them a pet
over the head or, you know, pickthem up and give them a kiss on
the face.

(14:15):
So the human end of things iswhere I start.
Whenever I'm starting with aclient, I make sure that the
relationship is really solid andthat the dog is having needs
met before we get started withany kind of training.
People have a really hard timewith that, usually like no
looming over the dog, notscooping them up in the air
unannounced.

(14:36):
Picking up small dogs is kindof a hot button topic.
And we enter their personalspace bubble a lot more than we
think to allow them the optionto enter ours.
So those kind of small changescan bring a ton of success into
a training program with a smalldog.
But I'd like to make sure thateverybody's kind of on the same

(14:58):
page with that, that we're goingto continue forward with a
training plan on the basis ofrespect.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
That's such a good point.
I love that you mentioned thatbecause it's definitely not
something a lot of people thinkabout, because you obviously
wouldn't go pick up 130 poundConnie Corso.
We don't think of that becausewe just physically can't do it
mostly the time.
But small dogs we think we canget away with it, just because
you know five, 10 pounds orwhatever it is.
And so, yeah, it's sointeresting when you think about

(15:27):
why we think we can do it right, it's just a matter of time.
But obviously we have to thinkabout that respect aspect.
Yeah, so some of the trainingtechniques let's say we're
working with a small dog forloose leash walking or any other
types of training.
What are the differences therebetween that and like, say,
training that Labrador?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
A lot of people struggle with treat delivery
with small dogs.
A lot of people talk about howthey have back pain after a
training session because you'reconstantly bending down to
deliver treats to your dog Withloose leash walking or anything
that kind of requires a lot ofthat.
The person is standing, the dogis down half a foot off the

(16:08):
ground and they're having toreach down and deliver treats to
them.
I like to work on alternativetreat delivery tactics,
especially because a lot ofsmall breed dogs don't actually
like it whenever people taketheir hands and shove them in
their face right.
It's very off putting.
So we'll see some dogs who area little bit hesitant to take
treats directly from people'shands, who are walking down the

(16:29):
street with them and thenlooming over them right,
stooping over them to shove atreat in their mouth, and the
dog is like I don't really wantto participate with this.
So we'll work on deliveringtreats to the ground
strategically.
That takes a little bit ofpractice and a little bit of
hand-eye coordination on thehumans part.
So that's something that wepractice a lot and then anytime
that we're doing any kind oftraining that requires the

(16:52):
person to stand, if they can bein a stationary position.
I also like to deliver treatsinto a dish on the ground for
the dog that they canpredictably go to, so even just
like a shallow little Tupperwaredish and you know as soon as
you mark and you drop the treatyou can drop it in the same spot
every single time for the dogto go retrieve.
And it's really helpful forpeople who have issues with

(17:16):
stooping over or bending over ortheir dog finds that kind of
treat delivery to be unpleasantfor them.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
So in that regard so people that have physical
limitations or physicaldisabilities is a kind of the
same process where making sortof almost a location specific
reinforcer but it can be superhelpful.
Can you talk us through some ofthat a little bit more too?
Is there any other adjustments?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, so I can also.
This is one of those kind ofhacks that you've probably heard
on the internet.
That's a little bit hit or miss.
But something else that I liketo do with that as well is have
some kind of target stick that Ican deliver treats with as well
, so that can literally just bewooden spoon.
People say wooden spoon withpeanut butter.

(18:02):
I personally have a found peanutbutter to be a super valuable
reinforcer for every dog, likeit's kind of advertised, but you
know, something soft, somethingspreadable to put on there as
well.
Anything that we can do thatgets the small dog off the
ground and kind of either eyelevel with the person is a lot
easier for a lot of people aswell, especially if you're

(18:24):
somebody who needs to be sittingdown whenever you're training.
But getting up and down off thefloor is kind of difficult.
We'll even do training likesitting on the couch, right, so
you'll have one person sittingin a chair, the dog has the
couch and we'll have a trainingsession that way.
So there's all different kindsof ways that we can get creative
with that, making sure thattraining is accessible for
people who need it, especiallywhenever your dog is only a few

(18:44):
inches off the ground.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
I love that.
I love that.
So you do a lot of foundationalstuff, you know, in an
environment where the dog cansucceed and the handler can
succeed well with that aspect.
What about some of those theremote treat training like so
treating trains or pet tutors?
Do you find those are also veryhelpful?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yep, I definitely find those to be helpful.
They're a little bit expensive,so I don't always have clients
who are either able or reallywilling to spend all that money
on the treatment train, so we'lldo more so of a location
specific marker instead.
Usually for those I'll teachthem a get a cue, which just
means I'm tossing a treat on theground and you're going to get

(19:23):
to go chase it, which again is amuch better alternative for a
lot of really tiny smalls thanshoving a treat in their face
with your hand, and they findthat to be really unpleasant.
We'll do a lot of that, but thetreatment train does help a lot
.
It's just a matter of whetherthe client is kind of bought
into purchasing one or not.
That can be a little bit of abarrier with those.

(19:43):
Sure can.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Just jump it back to the target stick and you
mentioned something like thepeanut butter on the spoon type
of situation.
Do you find that some dogs aresuspiciously getting a little
bit frightened by any type ofobject coming down to them, and
do you have any recommendationsif they have that response?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah.
So we'll work on that as askill entirely before getting
started with any kind oftraining.
So if the dog finds havingsomething presented in front of
them, like the wooden spoon, forexample, to be kind of like a
suspicious thing, especially ifit's kind of shoved in their
face, we'll do a little bit ofwork with the client on their
hands first and make sure thatthe dog is coming to them

(20:25):
instead of them shoving thespoon in the dog's face.
So if you present it a coupleof inches away from their face
or even a foot away from theirface so that they have to step
forward to acquire thereinforcement, it's a lot more
pleasant and it helps a lot ofsmall dogs get a little bit more
confident with that.
Then if you were to just shoveit right in their face and be
like hey, like this peanutbutter off of this spoon, right?

(20:48):
I also see that a lot with thesqueeze tubes.
So we'll use squeezy tubes orlike a travel shampoo bottle
filled with, you know, cannedfood or something like that for
dogs, especially ones who havedental issues, and they can be a
little bit suspicious of eatingout of those at first because
you're just presenting them anopen bottle right, and they have

(21:09):
to look at it to get the foodout.
So in those kind of situationsI'll also put a little bit on my
finger first and let the dogcome to my finger and I'll let
them, you know, realize thatit's something tasty, it's
something that they want, andthen I'll continue to feed them
off of my finger until I getcloser and closer to the shampoo
bottle and then I'll justpresent it out of the shampoo

(21:30):
bottle as well, and that helps alot to just get them
comfortable with it before weever try to use it as a
reinforcer or ask anything ofthem in a training context.
So sometimes eating food likethat is a skill in itself,
especially with smalls who don'thave a whole lot of history
with training and they find allthat kind of stuff to be a
little suspicious.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, shout out to Bark Pouch, which is a store
company that make these little.
You know they're like the oldGerber baby food tubes we used
to use.
But now they're like Bark Pouch, I'm not sponsored by them at
all, but I just I love shoutingout products that I love.
So In that regard, have you seenany like cool, like somebody
come up with an actual treatdispensing device where it's
like a combination of a targetstick, so like picture, like

(22:12):
almost a very thin PVC tubewhere the treats can drop from
the top all the way down to,with maybe a little dish at the
bottom where the small dog canactually get it out of there so
the person doesn't have to leanover or loom over and you know
you go through the sameconditioning process.
Have you seen anything likethat?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I have not, other than people kind of doing little
DIY ways to work with smalls inthose kind of ways.
It's something that I thinksomebody who is really good at
inventing things and creatingdevices like that needs to jump
on, because there are a lot ofsmall dog owners who would
definitely buy something likethat.
There's a big lack inaccessible training products for

(22:51):
small breed dogs in general, sothat's something that a lot of
people struggle with anddefinitely are looking for
solutions with.
So anybody you know, has thatcreative mind and wants to get
something like that going.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
There you go and then they could partner with you,
like the Abby Johnson treatdispensing for little kind of
device.
See this.
It all comes together in thispodcast, right?
All right, so let's move on towhen you have, you know, dogs
that have a history ofaggression and we're working
with you know it's getting intosomething like the creative

(23:23):
protective contact type ofsituation, like you as the
trainer or you're working witharound children, strangers,
other dogs, whatever it is.
So so sort of a broad questionright now.
But what are your thoughts onthat, or what do you usually
implement when you're working inan aggression case with a small
dog?
Considerations With a small dogyeah, yeah, I mean general
considerations.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
with small dogs there are a lot of on the handler
side of things that we need towork on for first before we get
into, you know, getting into thenitty gritty of the training
session with the small dog,especially because a lot of
people who are bringing you inbecause their small dog is
displaying aggressive behaviorsare doing so after the dog has

(24:02):
had a lot of history of havingthose really big explosive
displays right.
So it's usually a small dog ona hair trigger.
People, typically with smallerbreed dogs, wait a little bit
longer before they reach out forhelp.
So that dog's probably got areally big history of the
lunging, the snarling, thebiting, the really big
explosions working really well,and so that's kind of what

(24:24):
they're jumping to quicker andquicker.
So on the handler side ofthings, I like to start with
making sure that I go really indepth with education about body
language signals, especiallywith smalls, because they're
closer to the ground, theirfacial expressions and their
small low level signals ofstress are way more subtle than

(24:45):
any large breed dog becausethey're, you know, farther away
from you and they're a lot moreunderstated.
So picking up on those smalllow level signs of stress and
intervening at that point isgoing to be a lot more effective
and you're going to be doing alot more quality learning for
that dog if they can kind ofadjust to those low level
signals than waiting for the dogto explode every single time

(25:07):
before making an adjustment inthe training session, right?
So making sure that we arelistening to those low level
signals instead of waiting forthe bite is going to be a really
imperative place to start withsmall breed dogs.
I also like to make sure that,in terms of like management,
that I'm teaching my small dogowner how to how to advocate for

(25:29):
their dog, because that'ssomething that a lot of small
dog people struggle with,especially because everybody
else, is going to be a reallybig issue in your training
program.
I see it all the time with mydog, phoebe.
You know, whenever I was moreintensely working on her
reactivity, she's gotten a lotbetter.
Now Half of the battle for mewas getting other people to

(25:51):
leave her alone, even just, youknow, walking down the street.
At the time I was in anapartment complex People don't
necessarily take that veryseriously.
So making sure that you cankind of proactively advocate for
your dog and make sure they'renot put into situations with
people or other dogs or anyonethat you don't know, where
they're probably going tostruggle and probably have that

(26:12):
big reaction, is something thata lot of people need help with
or just kind of permission to do, because it's really easy to
just have people blow off yourlittle dog and say, oh, I don't
care, I'm not scared of your dog, and you know that's not the
point.
The point is I'm trying toprevent my dog from having these
big reactions in the firstplace.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
What do you recommend people say or what do you
recommend they do?
Because I could totally getthat, like you know, small or
cute looking dogs or dogs thathave certain cuts or whatever it
is they're going to get a lotof attention and people just
aren't going to listen.
So it's a.
I can empathize with that thepet guardians that are out there
that have to deal with that allthe time, with people just
coming up oh, such a cute dog,and the dog does not want

(26:52):
anything to do.
So what are your strategiesthere?
What do you recommend?
A?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
couple of different things that I do.
First thing that I do that's alittle bit less, you know, an
official of a recommendation isI give people permission to be
rude if they need to.
That's something a lot of usstruggle with.
You know, if we say no, thankyou, or my dog's not friendly,
or anything like that, andpeople don't listen, they're
like, oh, it's okay, and youkind of don't want to be rude to

(27:15):
them.
So you're like, okay, and youknow what's going to happen next
.
Right, but you don't feelcomfortable standing up for
yourself.
You definitely have permissionto do so if you need to say no
and kind of turn your back onpeople.
That's something I do a lotwith my smalls, especially
because I take them hiking a lot.
So if we see a dog or peoplecoming and I want to put my dogs

(27:39):
off to the side of the trailand just have them pass by
without a greeting, I'll makesure to be really intentional
with my body language by puttingmy back to people so that they
don't feel like I'm inviting aninteraction with them.
Other things that I typicallydo a small specifically is I
depending on the client anddepending on the dog and their
handling sensitivities oranything like that.

(28:00):
I recommend people pick theirsmall dogs up if they don't feel
like it's a situation thatthey're going to be able to
mitigate very well.
I think picking dogs up as agreat management tactic.
I know there are some trainerswho may disagree with me on this
, but I've seen a lot of successwith it.
So I will tell people,especially if they can practice
this proactively and put pickingup on a cue so the dog knows

(28:23):
that it's coming and just pickthem up.
If you have food on you,continuously feed, shout out to
Amy Cook with the magnet handtechnique.
It works really well with smalldogs.
The only adjustment that youneed to do is just be holding
them instead, and so I will justget my dog out of the situation
, pick them up proactively If Isee something approaching that I

(28:45):
am not sure that my dog isgoing to be able to handle, and
it helps a lot because you cankind of turn and body block your
dog from being able to see thetrigger and it's you know.
Obviously people can't reallycome up and crowd your space.
If you're holding your dog,it's a lot easier for you to
just turn and walk away if youneed to.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, it's kind of the universal, like body
language, like hey, no, don'ttouch.
you know, the one I've beenrecommending a lot now is just
saying no, no, no, he'scontagious Because it also works
really well to me my dog orlike, so they give a little
pause and that gives you time toget out of there without having
to be, you know, like reallydirect or rude.

(29:22):
They kind of gets them thinkingfor a second to give you time
to get out of there.
But I love how you're givingall these tips to advocate.
Right, you've got to advocatefor your small dog because of
all of these issues that theycan face, like you know, with
people coming up and notrecognizing it and just thinking
they can get away with itbecause it is a small dog and
you know we can jump into someof the equipment in a little bit

(29:42):
too.
But one of the things I've seenand I had actually taught a
class out in Marin that MarinHumane Society and one of the
sort of handler teams was usinga stroller a baby stroller that
could be covered, and she got alot of flak for that.
Like oh, that's so ridiculous.
I'm like that is the best thingyou could do for your dog
because you're in it andespecially in the area that's
very congested city environment,it's almost impossible to take

(30:06):
your dog somewhere to get towhere you want to actually do
some training, of work or wherethe dog's going to be
comfortable.
So you have to get out of yourapartment building to the park,
going down the street with hisother dogs and people reaching
and trying to touch and all thisother stuff.
So the stroller nobody knowsit's a dog, I think it's a baby
in there, nobody bothers.
And then you just get to thelocation, then you break the dog
out and then you can work andthe dog is completely

(30:27):
comfortable with that.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
So yeah, there's a ton of anthropomorphism type
arguments for all that kind ofstuff.
Whenever it comes to small dogs, people will tell you picking
them up as enabling them,putting them in a stroller is
enabling them.
You know, putting a jacket onyour small dog is treating them
like a human and all of that isbad and going to make your dog
even worse.

(30:48):
For the most part, a lot ofthose kind of stereotypical
things that people will shameyou for whenever it comes to
looking after your small dog'sneeds Are actually probably
going to help them more thananything else.
Anything you can do to make surethat your dog feels safe and
feels comfortable is absolutelysomething you should utilize,

(31:08):
especially if you have a dogwith any kind of behavior issues
, especially related to fear,reactivity, aggression, a lot of
that kind of stuff is.
There's no basis for people tosay that it makes their behavior
any worse.
You'll probably see animprovement in behavior if your
dog starts to know and trustthat you're going to be able to
handle the situation for themand they don't have to worry

(31:30):
about things that they'reworried about Usually.
I will have to kind of reversethat mindset with some of my
clients because they'll say youknow, I was told that he has to
get over it, and I should neverpet him.
I should never pick him up or doany of that kind of stuff,
which is completely false andprobably going to help.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, I mean you're bringing up so many things that
we don't think about.
But again, I can totally seethat where they get all of this
advice from other people, allthese wives tales that get
passed along for a long time,yeah, and we talk about it on
the show all the time.
You know you're not going tomake a dog that's fearful more
fearful by comforting them orpicking them up or putting them
in a place of safety.

(32:06):
It's just going to help in thelong run.
So, yeah, yeah.
So we're going to take a quickbreak to hear word from our
sponsor.
We'll be back to talk about alittle bit of the equipment we
can use with small dogs.
Hey, friends, don't forget tojoin me for the fourth annual
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(32:29):
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For more information, pleasevisit PetsforVetscom.
That's PetsforVetscom.
All right, we're back here withIvy Johnson.
We're talking about small dogsand all the ways we can help
them and all the issues they'refacing too.
So I'd love to continue theconversation on equipment and

(35:10):
what you think, because there'ssome universal equipment, but
there's sometimes, with reallysmall dogs, that manufacturers
don't make sizes small enoughfor the small dogs.
And since we're in anaggression podcast, we can maybe
look at muzzles.
That's one of the top questionsI get about muzzles.
Like I have this size dog.
What muzzle do you recommend?
And we know, like some of thesort of more mainstream muzzles,

(35:31):
like the Baskerville, thesmaller size, it's still too
large for a lot of these smalldogs.
So what is your experiencethere?
What are you recommending thesedays?

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yep, I usually will first kind of gauge where my
client is at like financially ordedication wise, especially if
it's going to be a dog who needslong term muzzle use or is
going to need muzzle use on afrequent basis, not just for
like a week or something likethat, or like in specific
situations.
So in those kind of situationsI will see if my client is

(36:01):
willing to get a custom mademuscle.
There are a ton of really coolsmall businesses out there that
are awesome to support that willallow you to send them your
measurements and so they canmake a muzzle that's
specifically custom to yourdog's snout, especially shorter
snouted breeds, or, you know,even Chihuahuas have pretty
short snouts.
So going custom is always goingto be the best way to go about

(36:26):
things, and that's kind of justgoes for all small dog equipment
recommendations.
That's just the unfortunatestate of the current situation
whenever it comes to equipmentand training equipment and all
that kind of stuff.
I also really like the plasticmuzzles that are the Greyhound
style muzzles.
Those can typically go in alittle bit of a smaller size and

(36:48):
those are a little bit easierto fit on small breed dogs,
especially because most of themhave that more narrow snout,
then they do the wider snoutthat a Baskerville would
probably fit better on.
And again, like you said, theBaskerville doesn't usually even
go small enough anyways.
So either custom or going withthat kind of narrow plastic
shape of muzzle is going to beyour best bet.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Good, I'm glad my information is not outdated yet
because I'm running along thesame lines with you.
On Amazon.
I send people to get there'sdifferent companies.
That's why I never can get theactual brand narrowed down,
because it's like thesecompanies that you know, like
the Amazon people that do buystuff from other countries and
then they sell it and then it'sa different brand name but it's

(37:31):
usually the same product.
It's from Alibaba or somethinglike that.
But they have these awesomesets of muzzles that look those
plastic style like you weretalking about and they sell like
six or seven different sizesand it's like you get a six or
seven muzzle for like 30 bucks.
So for the trainers listeningin, that those are actually.
They're decent muzzles too.
They don't have the additionalsafety strap like over the top
of the head as some of the otherdesigns and muzzles, but
they're actually pretty safe formost cases.

(37:53):
They're not going to be forhigh level bite risks they're
not the best, but for most ofyour cases you're going to be
totally fine.
You can actually cut a littlebar out in the front of those to
create like a little treat holeas well.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
A little treat spencer.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, and then, yeah, their smaller size is usually
small enough to fit most of thesmall breeds and they usually
fit pretty well, as long asthere's a little real estate on
the muzzle for the muzzle toactually sit on.
Shout out to Trust your Dog,which is a custom muzzle.
They make the custom biothanemuzzle, so it's
trust-your-dogcom.
They are a sponsor of theconference, so I feel
comfortable shouting them outfor sure.

(38:26):
But yeah, they make greatcustom muzzles and they're in
the US, so it's convenient foranybody living in the US.
So what about things likeharnesses?
Do you see?
These are particular brands youlike for real small dogs.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
So I am not super married to any kind of specific
brand whenever it comes tosmalls, although I do like to
recommend harnesses as opposedto collars as much as possible,
unless the dog has some kind ofequipment aversion that we're
going through working on.
I generally will recommend thatpeople use harnesses more so
than any other size dog, justbecause there is such a

(39:05):
significant risk of, you know,leveraging your dog a little bit
too hard.
They go to bargain lunge at theend of the leash and they're
hitting the end on their necks.
With their necks being so smalland fragile and so many small
breeds being prone to issueslike collapsed tracheas, I just
like to keep all of thatpressure off the neck as much as
possible.
A lot of long backed breeds aswell, like doxins and things

(39:28):
like that, do a lot better onharnesses, because that damage
to the neck can also travel allthe way down to the spine and
they run at a much higher riskof spinal injuries.
So with harnesses, I always liketo make sure that people are
looking for freedom of shouldermovement whenever they are
trying to pick out a harness,because there's a whole lot of

(39:49):
again, small breed equipmenttypes of harnesses out there
that are just not that great.
There's a lot of, you know,those random businesses that are
kind of just selling somethingthat looks pretty or looks good
but it's not actually all thatcomfortable to the dog.
But I do like to make sure thatI'm keeping all of that
pressure off the neck.
In terms of like leashes andlong lines, I always look for

(40:13):
really lightweight materialsover anything else, because that
can have a really significanteffect on the dog's comfort
level whenever we're out walkingor training, and I like to look
for either biophane or paracordcan actually be a really great
leash option.
I know there are people outthere who sell paracord leashes,
but I actually made my ownparacord long lines actually to

(40:37):
friend tie the knots for me, butI had my own paracord long
lines that have been better thananything else I've gotten so
far.
So if you're somebody that'scrafty, looking into paracord
leashes or long lines is areally great way to make sure
that your leash is lightweightenough that it's not affecting
your dog's movement.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
So just for anybody that's listening in that may not
know what paracord is, can youjust describe it as like round
or flat, or what is it made outof?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
It's round, it's almost like a cotton like
substance, so it's very, verylightweight and you can usually
find it at like hardware stores,but one that I found was at
like a camping store.
It was just this 30 footparacord line with a carabiner,
and I ended up tying it so thatthere was a handle on the end
and then the carabiner on theother, and it's just, it's
almost like string, but it'svery, very strong and it's very

(41:24):
durable.
It's not just like cottonthread or something like that.
That would be a lot more likelyto break.
So, it's a lot stronger thanthat.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Okay, okay, interesting.
So any other equipment ideas oranything that you typically use
that we might not be aware ofwith the, if we're in the large
dog space, right that yousuggest.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
So, yeah, I find that a lot of training equipment
with small dogs.
This is like a really greatconvenient thing with small dogs
is that you can use a lot ofhousehold items that you
couldn't use for a larger breeddog to use for training right.
So I have a little step stoolthat I use for my dogs for
cooperative care, for them tochin, rest on right.

(42:03):
So anything that's really smalland short, like look for things
in the kids section are reallygreat for training dogs.
I'll also use like bath matsyou know the ones that you put
in your bathroom as places formy dogs or whenever we do mat
training or settle training.
So that's really convenient.
Anytime you can go to like adollar store or a target or a

(42:25):
Walmart and go through the kidssection or through the bathroom
section.
You can find a lot of trainingequipment like that for them,
which is really great.
If you are like me and you'rekind of looking for options on a
budget and like as for trainingtreats and that kind of stuff,
I like to make sure that I amobviously not feeding my dogs
too many calories.

(42:46):
That's something that is reallydifficult for a lot of small dog
owners, especially those whohave to use a lot of food
throughout the day or theirtraining a lot throughout the
day.
So I'll try to make sure thatI'm using things that are
nutritionally balanced as muchas I can, right.
So I'll look for dog foodtoppers if I have a dog that

(43:06):
needs a little bit more thantheir regular kibble, right?
So those freeze dried dog foodtoppers are a really great way
to make sure that your dog'sstill getting some balanced
nutrition, because they're goingto be eating a lot of that food
.
Also, lickable treats for dogsare a really great way to make
sure that you're only givingthem a really small portion,
right?
So, like I mentioned earlier,with the shampoo bottle the

(43:27):
travel size shampoo bottlefilled with yogurt or canned dog
food you can just give them areally tiny amount per
repetition to make sure thatyou're not overfeeding them as
well.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
I think we're brainstorming right now the Abby
Johnson line of small dogproducts.
Yeah, there's a big gap for itMuzzles treat dispenser with it.
You know, with a target stick Imean, see, here we go.
I could see it.
Three years from now we'regoing to be hearing about this.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Oh, I hope so.
Yeah, that would be awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
So let's dive into breeds, so small dog breeds,
because actually it's somethingyou know I'm not a good breed
recognition person at all, likeI'm the person the worst person
to ask.
It's actually the one thing Ifailed when I was taking my
first, like way back when I wasone, to this dog training school
, like the breed identificationtest.
That's the one part I likemiserably failed, that I don't
know what it is.

(44:19):
So I'm now okay withidentifying large breeds and
kind of knowing the large breedsmuch better.
But the small breeds I again Ididn't see a lot of them in my
aggression work.
I did, of course, but not notanywhere near as many as the
large breed dogs.
So let's talk about the smallbreeds In terms of the groups.
I know you're also an FDM soyou know some can grow these
work and looking at breeds.

(44:40):
So talk more about that.
Let's kind of talk generallyfirst and then we'll get into
some specific stuff.
So thoughts on just like smallbreeds and aggression in general
, then we'll get from there.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
So there are two big types of small breed dogs, right
, two large groups.
We of course have the terrierson one side and then we've got
our toy breeds on the other.
So terriers on one hand are youknow, both officially and you
know, temperamentally a breedtype, a breed group of their own
.
They're obviously known forchasing, hunting, killing small

(45:11):
prey.
That's what they were mostlypurpose bred for, right.
And then we've got our toybreeds, which are my personal
favorite.
They're the kind of dogs that Ihave, right, and I really love
a lot, who are essentially bredfor companionship, right.
So they're supposed to be ourcompanions.
They're supposed to want tospend a lot of time with their
humans.
They are supposed to befriendly and affiliative.

(45:33):
Whether that is what we alwayssee in small breed dogs is a
little bit of a differentconversation, but that's
intentionally what they were orinitially what they were bred
for, right.
So that's what we want to see.
We want to see small breed dogswho are able to easily connect
with people and we want to makesure that all of those kind of

(45:54):
social needs that they have arebeing met.
We also see a lot of separationanxiety with small breed dogs
because of that and we will seea lot of kind of alarm type
behavior, so like alarm barking,some of that reactivity,
stranger danger, because theyhave their close knit family of
people that are kind of justtheir inner circle right.

(46:15):
So a lot of the time with smallbreed dogs those are the kind
of things that we'll see.
We'll also see a lot of resourceguarding with more toy breeds
than anything else and then withthose terrier breeds we'll
usually see a lot of that preydrive that people struggle with
and those high energy needs.
Terriers tend to be pretty highenergy dogs in general.

(46:36):
So if you're looking for like asport prospect or you want to
get into any kind of high energytype of activity but you're
wanting to live the small doglife, a terrier might be a
better fit for you as opposed toa toy breed, although we do
have some pretty drivey andenergetic toy breeds as well.
Every dog's an individual.
I've seen some Chihuahuas bepretty excitable and pretty

(47:00):
energetic and really eager totrain and do those sports and
high activity sports.
So I really like toy breedsbecause they have the potential
to be that kind of like allaround dog If you go the right
routes of acquiring one and makesure that you're raising them
the right way and make sure thatyou're advocating and training
and socializing and meeting allof their needs like they need.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
And you brought up a really important point there's
meeting the needs of the dogs.
So what are, like, some of themost important needs?
Because you know, especiallyfor the toy breeds, because we
can talk about all dogs ingeneral.
But the reason I'm thinkingabout this too is, you know,
again, when I was out inCalifornia I was, I had visited
a few shelters and one of thebreeds that we see a lot of

(47:44):
there and in southern,southwestern US too, is
Chihuahuas and some of these toybreeds.
Do you think it's a function ofwe're just not treating them
like dogs, we're treating themsort of like as fashion
accessories, so we're completelymissing the whole point and
then missing the socialization,missing meeting their needs.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Absolutely.
That is something that I try todrive home a lot whenever I'm
kind of advocating for smalldogs, especially Chihuahuas.
Like you're saying, we sawChihuahuas all the time coming
into the shelter whenever Iworked in the shelter and that
was probably our number onesmall breed dog that would come
in was some kind of Chihuahua orChihuahua mix, followed by

(48:26):
other various toy breeds, right?
So it's usually the toy breedsthat are coming in as the small
dogs, and it's usually becauseof that pop culture issue that
we talked about earlier, wherepeople don't think that they're
a real dog, they don't thinkthat they have all of these
needs that they do, the dog endsup developing a lot of behavior
problems because the dog is notsocialized at an early age and

(48:49):
their needs aren't being met.
And then we see dogs withreally significant behavior
problems.
Right, and because people findthem to be, you know, this
convenient choice, if they don'twant to go all the way into
getting a large breed dog, theywant a convenient apartment dog
that usually become reallypopular the small breeds and

(49:11):
then people are going to lessethical routes to acquire one.
So we see a lot of massbreeding.
We see a lot of backyardbreeding with small breed dogs.
So they're already starting outat this genetic disadvantage,
and then, on top of that,they're not getting that early
socialization like you'retalking about.
People don't believe that theyreally need to go out.
There's a really bigmisunderstanding about what

(49:32):
socialization really is among alot of laypeople.
Most people think that it'sjust meeting some people,
meeting some dogs and calling ita day there, right?
So a lot of those small dogsdon't ever see the outside of
their home Until they are fullysized adults.
And then all of a suddenthey're barking, lunging at
every single stimuli they seeout on a walk or anytime

(49:54):
somebody comes in the house, thedog is, you know, sounding off
the alarm bells, trying to runup and attack them.
So we have these dogs that arealready at a genetic
disadvantage and then they don'tget those early socialization
experiences that they need, andthen they continue to live their
life indoors so they're notgetting any of that mental or
physical stimulation that theyneed either.

(50:14):
And you know we obviously havethis whole cycle that continues
to repeat, because everybodythen sees these dogs with these
behavior issues and thinks, ohwell, that's just how small dogs
are, that's just whatChihuahuas are like, or, you
know, that's what anybody whoI've ever known who has a small
dog is like, and there's nothingwe can necessarily do about it,

(50:35):
because it's not like a care ora training issue.
It's just who they are as a dog, right?

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, yeah, we see these misnomers or these names
you know, the demon, Chihuahuaor something like that and like
people blaming the dog or thebreed, and this one especially
such a clear, you know, exampleof why we need to blame the
culture surrounding the dogs,the people involved with this
culture, not the dogs.
You know, these dogs are lovely.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
When in the right environments and we're meeting
their needs, we're creating thatissue and then we end up we
ended up naming this and blamingit on the dog, which is really
sad, yeah, it is, and it'ssomething that has become so
deeply ingrained in our culturearound dogs that I have even,
you know, in recent months seena couple of rescues advertising

(51:26):
some senior small dogs as eithergreat for somebody who wants to
start a viral social mediaaccount because the dog has
behavior issues right, orthey're just this like.
They'll use words like you know,if you want to live in a
Chihuahua health scape, take awalk.
You want to live in a Chihuahuahealth scape, take this dog and
adopt it.
And, of course, obviouslythey're trying really hard and
they're trying their best tomake a dog with some pretty

(51:47):
significant issues appealing andget that dog placed.
I mean, that's obviously theoverarching goal that they're
trying to get to.
But, you know, do we reallyneed to be going that route of
pushing that stereotype that'scontinuing to harm these dogs
onto people?
If this narrative is beingpushed by reputable
organizations as well, why wouldpeople think any differently

(52:09):
about their small breedsbehavior right, or think that
maybe this is not the way thatsmall dogs are supposed to be?

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah Well, I truly appreciate the work you're doing
to advocate and send the rightmessage out there about what we
need to change.
So other resources.
So, besides yourself and wewere talking about this, there's
not a lot.
So I'd encourage you to sendpeople to learn more about small
breeds or even working withaggression in small breeds, or
just small breeds in general.

(52:37):
Where would you send them?
What?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
are some of your favorites.
Bye.
I'm a big fan of free andaccessible information for
anybody who is looking for itright, so I actually recently
started a Facebook group that isnot just me.
It's actually like a reallygreat collaboration of several
other positive, reinforcementbased trainers.
For enthusiasts and regular petpeople alike.

(53:03):
It's just a great place for allof us to come together and
build a community.
It's called Small Breed DogTraining, and if you are
listening to this and want tolearn anything about small breed
dog training, please feel freeto come join us over there.
It's a really great place thatwe're going to start building a
lot of like easy to accessresources for people, and also
people can just come in there,share their successes, share

(53:25):
what they're struggling with,ask for training questions, and
it's all in this very tight knitcommunity of other people who
have small breed dogs, so we cankind of bounce ideas off of
each other that are relevant tothe types of dogs that we're
working with.
I also have a webinar recording,and this is more so for average
pet parents than anything else.
It's called Small Dog Savvy onour training website, and I have

(53:51):
just basically like aoverarching plan to revamp that
webinar pretty soon, so we'll doa whole revamp of it and get
all kinds of new updatedinformation, get a little bit
more specific on some of thetopics that I hear people
struggling about, and we'll getthat up on the website, probably

(54:11):
within the coming year or so.
And then, obviously, this issomething that probably a lot of
trainers know, but Emily, whois Kiko Pup on YouTube, is
really great to look for ifyou're looking for visual
examples or visualdemonstrations working with
small dogs, because she's got acouple smalls and puppies that
she works with on our channel,specifically Chihuahuas, and

(54:32):
it's really great to see kind ofthe difference in mechanics
between the large breed and thesmall breed.
So that's a really great freeresource to look out for as well
.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I highly agree with that one.
Yes, definitely, and thank youfor sharing those.
I will be sure to link those inthe show notes and also all the
other things.
We're going to have a lot ofshow notes for this episode.
You've thrown all kinds ofgreat information on us.
So, speaking of show notes,where can people find you and
learn more about the work you'redoing?

Speaker 2 (54:56):
So I work for Positive Futures here in the
Atlanta Georgia area.
You can find us atPositiveFuturescom and it's
spelled P-A-W-S.
So, like positive futures, wealso have a YouTube, instagram
and Facebook page where we sharea lot of free, accessible
information as well.
You can also find me personallyon TikTok.

(55:18):
My username is the underscorepositive underscore Chihuahuas.
I talk about all kinds ofthings there.
Small breeds are definitely avery popular topic because I
have my own and that's kind ofmy passion, but we talk about
all things training there.
I definitely like to shareinformation there as I'm able to

(55:39):
get it, so that people havemore free, accessible
information.
That's good quality on socialmedia, especially TikTok, where
you can hear every kind ofinformation that conflicts with
each other and it's really hardto sift through, but that's my
main social media channel fordog related content.
I'm also on Instagram under thesame username, but I post there

(56:02):
a lot more, just like personalpictures of my dogs, pictures,
videos, updates.
If you want to learn more aboutPocket and Phoebe, that's a
great place to go.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Excellent, Abby.
Thank you so much.
This has been wonderful.
I learned a lot of differentthings and I'm sure the
listeners are going to get a lotof value out of this episode.
So thank you for advocating forsmall dogs and for everything
you're doing.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
I really liked it.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
What a great conversation that was with Abby.
She really packed in so muchuseful advice into one episode
and I hope you had some nicetakeaways as well.
And don't forget to head onover to aggressivedogcom for
more information about helpingdogs with aggression from the
aggression in dogs master courseto webinars from world renowned
experts and even in annualconference, we have options for

(56:49):
both pet pros and pet owners tolearn more about aggression in
dogs.
We also have the help for dogswith aggression bonus episodes
that you can subscribe to.
These are solo shows where Iwalk you through how to work
with a variety of types ofaggression, such as resource
guarding, dog to dog aggression,territorial aggression, fair
based aggression and much, muchmore.
You can find a link tosubscribe in the show notes or

(57:13):
by hitting the subscribe buttonif you are listening in on Apple
podcasts.
Thanks for listening and staywell, my friends.