August 11, 2025 • 38 mins
The digital frontier of Red Dead Redemption 2 has captured the hearts and minds of gamers worldwide, creating emotional connections that transcend typical gaming experiences. In this deeply personal conversation, we explore why this Rockstar masterpiece stands as arguably the greatest video game ever created.
Arthur Morgan's journey from hardened outlaw to a man seeking redemption serves as the emotional core that brings players to tears. Roger Clark's extraordinary voice performance creates a protagonist so authentic that saying goodbye feels like losing a friend. We dissect the game's most heartbreaking moments – from Lenny's shocking death to Arthur's final ride – and the visceral emotional responses they trigger.
The game's attention to detail astounds at every turn. The night sky changes based on your location, featuring scientifically accurate constellations. Animals behave with stunning realism, environments transform with weather patterns, and Arthur documents his observations through detailed journal sketches. These elements combine to create not just a game world, but a living ecosystem.
Character development shines brightest through Sadie Adler, whom we celebrate as possibly the most perfectly written character in gaming history. Her transformation from traumatized widow to formidable bounty hunter unfolds with perfect pacing – never rushed, never prolonged – creating a character arc that feels both authentic and deeply satisfying. Meanwhile, Dutch's gradual descent into madness reveals itself through subtle hints that reward multiple playthroughs.
For those who haven't yet ventured into this digital frontier, we offer our strongest recommendation. Red Dead Redemption 2 transcends traditional gaming experiences, functioning more as an interactive novel or film that players participate in rather than merely consume. It's not just a game – it's a profound emotional journey that stays with you long after the credits roll.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And then the story progresses and you have
characters that you kind of getattached to and you love, and
then you have characters thatyou know that you hate.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Some of them just from the get go.
You just kind of fucking hatethem Like Micah, literally from
day one.
I fucking hated him, micah.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the get go.
I fucking hated.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Micah.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Micah can suck.
I hated him and I'll tell yousomebody else that I hated right
from the get-go.
I fucking hate Micah.
Micah can suck.
I hated him and I'll tell you.
Somebody else that I hatedright from the get-go was Dutch,
Could not stand him.
I thought he was the mostuseless turd in the sandbox that
I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hey, he had a fucking plan, he just needed some
goddamn money, just some goddamnmoney to get to Tahiti.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Right, Just one more, and this is it.
This is the big one.
Before we begin today's episode, we would like to share a quick
(01:07):
disclaimer.
The views, opinions andstatements expressed by the
hosts and guests on this podcastare their own personal views
and are provided in their owncapacity.
All content is editorial,opinion-based and intended for
entertainment purposes only.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Listener discretion is advised oh, we're recording
cool tahiti tahiti howdy therepartners, and I'm done with that
.
That's gonna hurt my throateither way.
So, as you heard in one of theother episodes that we've done,
Angie has finally seen the light, if that's how you want to say.
(01:49):
She has made the right choices.
High honor redemption in a RedDead kind of way Some other type
of bad pun jokes there Red DeadRedemption 2.
That's what we're talking about, AKA, the greatest fucking
video game ever made in myhumbled factual opinion.
So welcome back to anotherepisode of the Black Curtain
(02:11):
Club podcast.
I am your host.
Kyle Angie, the newly anointedWestern aficionado, is also here
with me.
Hey, Angie, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Hey, I'm good.
I'm still recovering from Reddead, from the ending, but I'm
I'm doing okay.
I I can't think about it toomuch.
Um, I'll get kind of emotional,but I'm doing okay um, you
never fully heal it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Just it gets a little easier.
It just gets a little easier.
It's kind of like frodo Hiswound will never heal.
He'll carry it the rest of hislife.
That feeling you have in thecenter of your chest, yeah,
you're just going to feel it forthe rest of your life.
But you know you did the rightthing.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you what.
The ending of Arthur's journeyis very emotional, but then
there's like two differentepilogues you have to play
through and I really wasn'texpecting that, like I knew it
was an epilogue, but like Ididn't know you had to like,
then you're playing as adifferent character and like the
(03:20):
shit that you have to do to getto like the of the rest of the
story that drove me crazy.
I will have to say that droveme crazy because I'm literally
shoveling shit.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
What does this have to do with I think the only
thing that's worse in theepilogue is probably some of the
parts in the beginning in thesnow of the culture.
That was pretty rough.
I will say that about the gameit it it does have.
There's a lot of placement,there's a lot of setup, there's
(03:55):
a lot I don't even call it likeyou know.
People say, oh, this game is acheckers, it's chest, you know
there's a lot of that setup,kind of shit.
I would say it's kind of like afucking tabletop game.
So there's a lot of setupbefore the game really starts
going, but then once it goes, itjust doesn't stop it just
doesn't stop and it just keepsgoing and going and then it just
(04:16):
abruptly ends with ripping yourgoddamn heart out.
And then you have to try to, youtry to have to try to make it
through life and you just Goddamn, it just can't do it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I wish there was a way that we could splice in
somehow my voice message to youat the end of that game, Because
I was crying, so I mean I wassaying you were sobbing, you
were sobbing.
I was.
I was absolutely sobbing, uglycrying.
This was emotional.
(04:49):
You get with terms ofendearment or some movie that
just rips your heart out.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Infinity War.
Stand by me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Or like my Girl, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
My Girl, my Girl Bridget Terbithia.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, he can't see without his glasses.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Marley and Me.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Anyhow, oh God, yeah, yeah, a Dog's Life.
Okay, I will tell you, I criedalmost as hard at the end of
this game as I did in A Dog'sLife.
And let me tell you something,oh shit.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That movie traumatized me and I I cried
almost as hard at the end ofthis game as that movie it was,
it's, it's, it's something likeI said the game's been out for a
while, so we can just go ahead,and we can just, yeah, just go
ahead and say it yeah I mean,and I will say the, the game for
(05:45):
me definitely was a slow burn,um, because, like it, I felt
like I spent the first 30 of thegame like I am never getting.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's gonna take me years to get through this game.
It's like I'm progressing soslowly and the game was so slow
for me.
I was like I like the sicknessthat he would get.
I kind of went into it prettyblind because you, you insulated
me from a lot of that.
You would not tell me, um, andbecause I knew what you would.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I knew what you would if I told you all the really
cool fun shit that I know you'regoing to be insanely obsessive
about.
You wouldn't have done anything.
You still wouldn't havecompleted the game.
You'd have been hunting all ofthat shit down you weren't
looking for the aliens and theserial killer and the cryptids
and all that bullshit.
You would have been looking forthe ghosts, all that stuff.
You weren't looking for all ofthat stuff, um, but now you get
(06:43):
to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, now I have to go back and do all of that, but
but yeah, I I will say I willsay that one.
You know, one of the thingsthat kept me engaged in the in
the game was just how beautifulthe game is.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's a work of art.
It's a fucking work of art.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It absolutely is a work of art.
It's a fucking work of art,breathtaking, and the detail
that they they put into thisgame is absolutely mind-blowing,
like I know we've talked aboutbefore, like the night sky, how
detailed, and you can see, likeyou can see the constellations,
you can see the milky way youcan like.
(07:37):
The placement of theconstellations is exactly where
you would be at that, you knowtime.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, for the people that we've lost.
We'll slightly explain that one.
So if you've played GTA oryou've played these ones, so
areas in the map resemble otherstates from like the 1800s, from
the cowboy era.
So you go to this part of themap and it looks like Texas.
If you go to this part of themap it kind of looks like
Wyoming the heartland, you know,utah, that fun shit.
(08:05):
You have the area that's kindof like louisiana and the
armpits and all the otherbullshit states and whatnot.
Right, so with that, becausethey can't call them those
states for whatever reasons, forlegality purposes, but everyone
knows which kind of stateyou're in- yeah, the night sky
is accurate to what state you'dbe in.
So if you're in the area, that'slike Utah, that's exactly what
(08:28):
the sky is going to look likeroughly around the summertime or
whatever the hell season andday of the week it is, and also
that kind of shit.
The sky looks exactly like that.
It is a copy-paste replica ofwhat that's the thought and the
detail that they put with thatone.
That's insane.
It's mind numbing.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And just the like, the detail in the animals, like
I can't tell you how many timeslike I would get the binoculars
out and just watch animals youknow find like a high place.
And you, you know, you can justand like how he journals and
you, you know, you can just andlike how he journals like you
know you can see something cool,and then he'll pull his journal
(09:10):
out and sketch it.
And just the little details,like that is really you know
kind of what grabbed myattention.
And then the story progressesand you have characters that you
kind of get attached to and youlove.
And then you have charactersthat you kind of get attached to
and you love, and then you havecharacters that you know that
you hate like some of them, justfrom the get-go.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You just kind of fucking hate them I tell you
like micah literally from dayone oh, fucking hate him from
the get-go, I fucking hate,micah micah can suck.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I hated him and I'll tell you somebody else that I
hated right from the get go wasDutch, could not stand him.
I thought he was the mostuseless turd in the sandbox that
I've ever seen he had a fuckingplan.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
He just needed some god damn money just some god
damn money to get to Tahiti.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, just one more, and this is it.
This is the big one, theloyalty that they all had to
this man who was just afloundering idiot that sat back
on his laurels and really didn'tdo much other than plan all
this stuff that would ultimatelyget most everyone killed.
(10:27):
You know it just, oh, I can'tstand him.
And so I cheated a little bitafter I played this game because
I was so upset because, likethere's no redemption, like
Dutch what he did, you know hedoesn't get his comeuppance in
this you know in this game, butI understand now that red dead 2
(10:51):
happens before red deadredemption yeah, and so I know
there's like there's yeah,there's a whole storyline with
John now and that Dutch doeseventually get his come opens.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And which is actually pretty nuts is that they just
slightly expanded the map a forred dead 2 from red dead 1 so
you can actually so actuallywhere that final scene happens,
like there's parts from thatgame that are that are part of
the map in here, so you canactually go to the area in red
(11:33):
dead 2 where dutch gets it inred dead 1 and there's like
little like you can go right tothat area and there's like a
crow or something like that.
There's little things you cango back and you can find in the
game.
So now, when you're done, whenyou're ready for your second
playthrough Because you will youabsolutely will, you can go and
(11:57):
you can go to these differentareas and now you can see all of
the extra stuff as Arthur, andyou can go to these different
areas and now you can see all ofthe extra stuff as Arthur and
see how it's different.
So you can go to that area andsee little Easter eggs.
Now, as a John, you can go backto all of the areas that were
your camps.
You can go to Clemens Point.
You can go to I forget, the,the Overlook, whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You can go can all the areas where your camps were
throughout the game.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, and you can go there and it's dead.
It's like dead quiet and asyou're just kind of walking
through, you'll hear likewhispers and like echoes of like
past, things like that.
So it's like the ghosts of likeit's like it's the memories.
You can go there and you'll hearlike different things you'll
hear, you know.
You'll hear arthur talking toyou know busting john's balls
(12:46):
about his face scars and thingslike that.
You go over to the tree at thatfirst camp about him.
Hey, next time that the wolveseat all your brains, all that
shit, right, you hear?
all of that you see all of that.
You go to different areas likethat throughout the game and
those memories are there.
Um, whether you've seen this ornot, you can actually go.
Everybody who died in the gamehas a grave.
(13:08):
You can go to their grave andpay respects oh, wow yeah, you
can go to arthur's grave and youcan pay your respects when you
get a hundred percent completion.
Um, there's another little,very, very small cut scene.
It's not like super importantor whatever, it's just a nice
little something.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But uh, yeah, so arthur has a grave in the game
no, I saw that because I watchedall of the um the credits and
let me tell you something thosecredits go on forever, like I
was like I could play the gameagain in the time these credits
I can get out of.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I can get out of the mountains by the time these
credits are done.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's how long these fucking credits are right, but
it was really interesting thoughthe cut scenes, because you got
to see, like, what happened tolike what happened afterwards
and yep um, I tell you one, oh,um, when I got to see what
happened with Tilly, oh, it wasbeautiful.
That made me so happy.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
With her and Mary Beth.
Mary Beth kind of touched myheart too.
Yeah, tilly and.
Mary Beth, I just listen nextto Arthur's, Next to Arthur, the
one that gets me Every singletime.
I just I mean that gets meevery single time.
I just I mean, I literally Ipaused, I audibly gasped when I
(14:28):
dropped my controller, when ithappened, Good old Lenny, lenny,
lenny yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Lenny.
Lenny was the death that mademe almost cry.
Well, yeah, I got teary-eyed.
I had tears when Lenny was thedeath.
That made me almost cry.
Well, yeah, I got teary-eyed.
I had tears when.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Lenny died.
And don't get me wrong.
I'm not taking anything awayfrom Hosea.
Hosea's was incredible.
I was like oh my.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That was shocking.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Exactly, I was like that was shocking.
I had a feeling he was going todie during the game.
Something told me just from theget-go, because I saw like how
close arthur was and how he wasto dutch.
I saw was I was like this man'snot making it out.
but if you want my honestopinion, I thought, um, I
(15:15):
thought for sure dutch wouldhave killed him.
I thought they would haveplayed that like that would have
shown his his real deep descentwas, uh, you know, like jose
was gonna know whether it waslike by accident, like there was
just like a like a some type ofum a confrontation going on,
(15:35):
like like, let's say, like umdutch had a gun drawn on someone
, like one of their jobs wentsouth and he's got a gun at like
innocent people and he'sthreatening people.
And Jose is like dude, what areyou doing?
Kind of thing.
And he goes like Dutch, whatare you doing?
Like go like hit the gun awayand the gun goes off.
I thought it'd been like one ofthose kind of things I didn't
think he actually would havelike killed him, killed him.
Like it would have from there.
(16:04):
But yeah, I was just, oh my god, and then it just it just
popped off from there.
And then you're there, you'reon the roofs and you're running.
Come on, it's this way blam.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
oh, I'll tell you, there was a moment, like at the
end, um, like where, wherethings were really starting to
fray and like people arestarting to question, like dutch
, that there was a moment Ireally thought that Dutch or
Micah more so Micah, but atDutch's discretion I really
thought that Abigail and Jackwere going to end up dead.
(16:35):
I was waiting for that tohappen.
I'm so glad that it didn'thappen but I kept thinking like
he's gonna do something that'sso despicable.
I mean he does in his, you knowthe his actions.
But I tell you, the other thingthat was shocked me, shocked the
(16:57):
shit out of me, was whathappened to Kieran.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, it's just the level, the gruesomeness, the
gore to it I think is what threwme through a loop.
Yeah, I really liked him.
That one hurt too.
All the deaths, all the deathsin the game, really.
Yeah.
The main deaths.
I should say Don't get me wrong.
What's her name?
Oh God, why can't I think ofher name right now?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Oh Grimshaw.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
No, not Grimshaw, the Irish lady Molly Molly O'Shea.
Oh, Molly yeah.
Like that kind of shocked me.
And then at the same time thatwas like yes, ms Grimshaw, she's
just a hardened bad bitch.
Like she wasn't't.
(17:44):
She didn't do it out of malice,she was just doing her like.
She said she goes, she knew therules.
She was like you know, at thatpoint they were just like she
was a rat.
Y'all know what happens to ratstalk shit get hit.
Simple as that, like and yeahshe was just doing her job, so
you gotta respect her for it.
Um, but then once again, all ofthe dicks that can be sucked in
the world.
Micah can do all of that when hefucking oh man fuck you micah
(18:06):
oh, yeah, yeah, micah, I knew Iknew it was coming, but it
breaks my heart a little bitwhen the people you know the
people who choose the sides andwhatnot, you know they choose
sides.
Um what's?
Uh, javier, he was fantastic inthe game, absolutely fantastic.
I loved him, incredibly loyal,just same thing.
(18:27):
Just one of those solid ride ordie dudes he didn't have much
dutch gave it to him.
So so his loyalties are therefor sure to the gang, but mainly
to dutch.
If you notice something in that,you know there's the, there's
the whole standoff going on.
Everyone's got the guns drawn.
Javier's gun is drawn but it'snot pointing at anybody.
(18:48):
So he knows what's going on iswrong, like he knows, like
there's still that.
You know there's thatquestioning.
He's not a hundred percent ondutch's side.
Meanwhile, micah, the otherguys are keeping those other two
schmucks that micah finds uh,bill, they all have their guns
(19:09):
drawn and pointing at john andarthur.
Javier has his gun drawn incase something goes off, but
he's not pointing the gun atthem because exactly that's how
loyal he was to everyone in thegang.
He still wasn't going to pointit at his brothers, essentially
Because, no matter what wasgoing on, it's an incredibly
small detail that if you blinkand you miss it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm now made it to the open world and all that.
I like John, but man, I'malready missing playing as
Arthur.
I'm already missing him so bad.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Roger Clark did an unbelievable job with the Just,
with the character, not just theactual writers that gave the
story, but full-blown justacting.
Like I said, not just thewriter, not just the writing of
the character, but the portrayalof the character was just it,
(20:05):
just it's unbelievable, justreally, really yeah on
believable it's so, and the factthat there's so many different
voice actors so you can get thatheavy immersion done.
What's wrong, what's tough withsome of these games?
You know you only have likelike skyrim, another game I
absolutely love.
I have so many hours clockedinto that game.
(20:26):
Um, there's only like six voiceactors in the whole game yeah,
it's like, so you can go to thetown and like the guy who voices
the jarl in this town, you goto the next one over and he's
the courier who's like robbingyou.
It's the same fucking voice.
It's like weren't you just theking who told me to come over
here.
There's literally thousands ofvoice actors, thousands of voice
actors yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that it's in
the world records Guinness worldrecords for the number of voice
actors.
But yeah, that's one of them,for sure.
There's one thing I want totalk about, and that is my most
favorite character besidesArthur.
(21:09):
The baddest bitch of them allis Miss Sadie Adler.
What a woman.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What a woman.
What a woman.
What a character Absolutelyfantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, I'm telling you , give me a second, you're good
that emotion happened.
That emotion came over me realfast.
Ah shit.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I got some jelly beans.
You like jelly beans?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Shit, oh, oklahoma.
But yeah, sadie Adler, she wentthrough a lot and she exacted
her revenge.
She, she kept on keeping on andshe was just she.
You know, she's just a lot oftimes like from a woman's
(22:09):
perspective.
You don't sometimes get a lotof really good female characters
that have like a lot of depthto them oh, I would argue that
she is the the best writtencharacter in the game.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Including arthur and john and everybody.
I think she is the mostperfectly um paced yeah
development, everything abouther fits, nothing is rushed,
nothing is taking too long,forever, absolutely perfect.
From the second you meet her tothe second she exits the game.
She is a completely differentperson.
(22:49):
Yeah.
And everything is right.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I would argue that she is the most well-written
character in the entire gamegame like I, I, because I, I
know, like you know, one of thethings was you know she had
talked about like she wanted togo to south america, you know,
just to kind of change peace now.
I mean rockstar, if you'relistening to this podcast.
(23:14):
Please develop a sadie adlergame, an extension of this
universe.
I need a sadie game.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I, I see it being I see being a spinoff.
I don't know if you've playedthe gta games, but they had, I
forgot.
I think it was for gta 4.
So gta 4 came out and they hada.
At least there was the onespinoff where you followed one
of the you played as, ascharacters for one of the biker
gangs, because Sons of Anarchywas the biggest fucking thing in
(23:46):
the world at the time.
So they kind of wanted to cashin on that one.
So they made essentially likehalf a game.
They didn't have enough contentto make a full-blown biker gang
GTA because they were alreadyworking on gta5, so they made a
little half game, I would say,where, like, let's say, let's
say the main game was 100missions long, this one was
(24:08):
probably like 30 to 40 missionslong, we'll say yeah, yeah and
you could still its own thing.
I think that's what I don't know, if I don't something about.
It says, I think just that,because it's it ties in, but it
is still its own standalone.
So people aren't gonna be like,oh, that's the extra characters
.
No, that's not the characterfrom Red Dead, that's Sadie
Adler.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
God damn it, she's her own yeah, yeah yeah, as she
said many times, I am my ownwoman.
Yeah, I would love to like seean extension of her story.
And what happens?
Where does she go after sheexits the game?
I want to continue with herstory.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I just love we just need more.
We just need more we just needmore about her.
Yeah, yeah, like I said it,just yeah for those, for those,
like I say, who don't know, itstarts as a distressing damsel,
but they don't leave her.
The poor ditzy, oh no, she'snot just sorry to be so crass
(25:10):
about it, but she's not justsome dumb broad that they just
like threw into the game.
You know what I meant.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
They could have just left her as, like, the damsel in distress.
She needed the big, strong manto come in and save her, and now
she's just going to be fawningover and doing whatever the hell
she wants?
Absolutely not.
We have that moment.
(25:31):
She is saved.
I would argue that.
Did she need the saving?
Technically, yes, but at thesame time, though, she was
fighting for her life.
You meet her Knife is drawn andshe's going after micah, like
you meet her and she's fightingand yeah then the next time,
then you that you bring her tocamp.
You don't see her that much.
What's the next thing we seeher doing?
(25:52):
Threatening to kill pearson.
So like she already has that,that rage, that anger, that
mouth.
She's always, she already is aum which is she's a.
She's a hot iron is what it isit needs to be forged, it has to
be tempered, it needs to behoned into, you know, into the
(26:12):
blade, into this beautifulmasterpiece that yeah she has to
be um, and exactly that.
and there's that little bit, andtime and time she proves that
she isn't just like you said,she's her own woman.
She isn't the damsel indistress.
She is just as rough.
She's just as tough, she's justas made for this world as the
(26:33):
men are.
Yeah.
I think one of my favorite, oneline that sticks with me so
much is right before the mission, right before you guys leave to
go to that O'Driscoll camp,right towards, way towards the
end of the game.
It's like the last mission youdo with her.
(26:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And Arthur's telling her listen.
When all listen, this isfinished.
Its days are numbered andthey're just kind of reconciling
that the two of them are.
They're arguably the sameperson.
I think Sadie was written asArthur's mirror.
Yeah.
In the game.
Just the way the two of themare and how it develops
(27:17):
throughout it.
So they said that they're moreum, I think he says it.
We're more ghosts than people.
Anyway, they both come torealize that they're just.
They're essentially dead inside.
Everyone else is fighting forthis, fighting for that.
They're just moving through,they're going to do what they
have to do, but they're just.
They know their days arenumbered and they're going to go
(27:37):
out on their own way, their ownterms and, however it goes,
they're going to do what theywant yeah and just whatever
happens happens, kind of a thingwhich is I just I love it so
much like.
And then you go, you do thatmission and at the end of it she
has her big breakdown and she'sand same thing.
Just just the conversation thetwo of them have and how like
(28:00):
everything was.
You know, everything was sowrong and so on and so forth.
Arthur, you're the only decentman I know, or you're the best
friend that I have.
You're the only good man that Iknow, because I know the company
you keep.
That's a low-hanging bar andshe's like, yeah, you say that,
but you are a good man.
You've made some bad choices.
But you are a good man.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You've made some bad choices but you are a good man,
yeah yeah, so yeah, their, their, uh, their friendship is is
pretty, you know, pretty specialand uh.
And I think, though, like her,her story arc, and I've been
(28:42):
thinking about the quote fromthe Departed I, I don't want to
be a product of my environment,I want my environment to be a
product of me.
Oh, I thought she felt funnyand I think you kind of see that
yeah.
She felt funny.
(29:02):
She felt funny Anyhow.
No, but yeah.
So I think at the end, like shedetermines, like okay.
So you know, all this stuff hashappened and now I'm going to
be the person to shape this newworld, because the world had to
(29:23):
change.
There was no room forgunslingers anymore in this
world.
You know, you saw that theme goall the way through and so she
was like you know what I'm goingto now be the mastermind
between what the new world isgoing to be, because she becomes
(29:43):
the bounty hunter Exactly, theyspent so much of their time
running from these people.
And then she realizes that shehas to shape the new environment
and and become what she feared,probably what they all feared
the most.
I don't know, maybe I'm gettingtoo philosophical about it, but
(30:03):
no, no, no million percent.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's exactly what just love her yeah, yeah, like I
said, they, they definitely did, she they everything they did
in this game they did withintention, absolutely everything
the way.
So, like you go back and you'llhear dialogue, you'll see
dialogue and, like I said, onyour next play through the game,
you'll probably pick up onother things, like the dutch's
(30:26):
descent started so much earlierthan people think.
Like, yeah technically itstarted before.
Technically started before thegame, during the whole thing in
blackwater.
That's when it actually started.
But then you pick up, when youfirst you do that fishing trip
with him and Hosea, you comeback and he has that little slip
up and he's kind of talkingabout it.
He goes I by, I I mean we aregoing to be okay, like you see
(30:49):
that little bit.
He's always been like that.
He's going to be like that itwasn't one thing that switched
it Absolutely, he absolutelyused everything he was, he was,
he was the snake in the grass,if you will.
He was that silver tongue kindof yeah.
You know, charismatic, whateverthe hell that um shit like wild
(31:09):
west, Jim Jones, if you will,yeah, Um that's exactly what it
was.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I almost thought that there would how I kind of
thought that it might end up orlike something that would have
happened would be that therewould be this situation where
they were up against thePinkertons or whatever, and I
knew that he was holding allthat money Like you know.
You know that you know thatmoney is going somewhere and I
thought he was going to justbasically take the money and run
(31:40):
and leave them all to like facethe Pinkertons and you know he
gets off scot-free.
I thought that was going tohappen, but you know I mean it
didn't happen.
But one of the things that Idid notice in the, in the credit
clips, was that the I don'tknow they were law enforcement
(32:08):
agents of some sort but they goand they actually find John.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
but they go and they actually find John, that's
Milton, that's Milton.
And no, not Milton, that's aagent Ross.
So the guy was with Milton Ross, that's Ross, and, um shit, I
can't think of it but they findhim and they must.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I mean, uh, my the.
What I took from it is they sawthat he was trying to like he
had the ranch, he had his son.
You know they were looking at.
You know him having this momentwith his son and they left him.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's what I gathered.
You want me to leave it at that.
You want me to rain on yourparade?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, I mean, I had the ending spoiled for me.
I tried to stay away fromspoilers in it, but it didn't
detract from from my experience.
So motion yeah, yeah, all rightgo ahead.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So that's so.
That's ross and that's ross,and I don't fucking remember the
other asshole's name.
But um, those are the two mainantagonists from Red Dead 1.
So those guys are there.
They're still.
Those are Pinkertons.
They're still looking for Johnand the rest of the gang.
So in Red Dead 1, those twoguys show up and they kidnap
(33:30):
Jack and Abigail and they prettymuch tell John hey, you need to
go hunt down Dutch Vandalin,javier Escuela, bill Williamson,
your former gang members, andbring them to justice, or we're
going to kill your fuckingfamily.
That's the game.
So that just goes to show.
Like I said, for the people whohave played the game, that is
(33:52):
an un, I'm talking about it.
I'm getting fucking goosebumps.
I wish you could see my armright now.
That is the when I saw that Ipretty much gasped as hard as I
did with like lenny and all thatkind of fun stuff.
Because that is a perfect,flawless seam between the two
games leading right into thefirst game is that, like the
(34:12):
agents found they were lookingfor john, they found him.
Now they're gonna show up andyou can start the game right
from there right from there youcan start the first game
wow, yeah yeah, it's so fuckinggood and I'm, I'm, I.
I think the first, the firstone of the second, the first
(34:34):
one's just as good as the secondone.
I think the same thing.
The story, the portrayal of it,just all of it.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
It's so damn good and there's just as much like Wild
West lore and Easter eggs andwhat have you in that one, as
there was in this eggs and whathave you in that one, as it was
in this, I really can tell why acharacter like arthur morgan is
so important to you.
Like, I think, like knowing youand then now playing this game,
(35:07):
it, I think, this game, hasmade me understand you even more
, and so, like, uh, like, Iunderstand now why you know
you're so passionate about yourcosplay, as, as arthur, you know
, um, I could understand why,like you know the, the leather
(35:28):
working, because you can, youcan craft all this stuff in the
in the game, and, like I don'tknow, I just think that this
game has just made me understandyou on an even greater level
and so, um, I'm just, I'm justreally grateful that you brought
this game to like into my, myworld and in my existence.
(35:51):
So thank you so much for thatyou're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I'm glad you.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it.
I really am yeah, I reallyreally am.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I want everyone to enjoy this game, because I
fucking love it yeah, and I willsay like, if you haven't played
this game and you've been onthe fence or it's just been one
of those games you just nevergot around to playing I highly
recommend it.
It's just an impactful kind ofstory and it's just great
(36:23):
storytelling that you get toparticipate in.
You know, it's like you'reparticipating in a movie,
basically.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Exactly, I nail on the fucking head right there.
It is a playable movie.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, so go go get it , play it.
Let it take up 60% of your oneterabyte.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
However much room it takes.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Xbox, however much room, make the room for this and
and play it you, you won'tregret it, not one bit.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
It's worth it.
I've been playing this game somuch since I got it when it came
out and I still I still haven'tgotten to 100 completion.
There's just so much to do andI just get sidetracked doing
everything else and then I'mlike, oh my god, I just want to
play the story again, so I startthe game over.
I think the closest I ever gotwas like 88% completion.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
So much left to do in the game, but at least I got
through the main story, allright.
Well, I guess we need to wrapthis up and thank you so much
for listening to this episode aswe talk about these characters
that we've come to love so much.
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
As we ride off into the sunset.
Now, hopefully you haven'tcried too much, too hard, and if
you haven't played the game,sorry for the spoilers, but
trust me it'll still.
It'll still, you'll still beshocked, it'll still impact you.
It's still worth every goddamnsecond.
Um, when you like, share andcomment, make sure you tag
(37:56):
rockstar games Games,specifically Roger Clark and the
other amazing voice actors thatput all the time and effort
into this game, because I wantsome jelly beans.
I would die.
If they listen to this and theycheck this out, I would cease
to exist.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Thanks for listening Again.
Please share If you enjoy thispodcast, you enjoy what you
listening Again, please share ifyou enjoy this podcast, you
enjoy what you're listening to,and please share with people.
Please give us comments andratings.
That will help us out more thananything else, and that kind of
help is completely free.
It just takes a couple secondsof your time.
Tune in.
Who knows what we're going tobe talking about next, but I'm
(38:33):
sure it'll be weird and crazy.
Anyway, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I gave you all I had.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Oh, Arthur, you're a good man.
And then the story progresses and you have
characters that you kind of getattached to and you love, and
then you have characters thatyou know that you hate.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Some of them just from the get go.
You just kind of fucking hatethem Like Micah, literally from
day one.
I fucking hated him, micah.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the get go.
I fucking hated.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Micah.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Micah can suck.
I hated him and I'll tell yousomebody else that I hated right
from the get-go.
I fucking hate Micah.
Micah can suck.
I hated him and I'll tell you.
Somebody else that I hatedright from the get-go was Dutch,
Could not stand him.
I thought he was the mostuseless turd in the sandbox that
I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hey, he had a fucking plan, he just needed some
goddamn money, just some goddamnmoney to get to Tahiti.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Right, Just one more, and this is it.
This is the big one.
Before we begin today's episode, we would like to share a quick
(01:07):
disclaimer.
The views, opinions andstatements expressed by the
hosts and guests on this podcastare their own personal views
and are provided in their owncapacity.
All content is editorial,opinion-based and intended for
entertainment purposes only.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Listener discretion is advised oh, we're recording
cool tahiti tahiti howdy therepartners, and I'm done with that
.
That's gonna hurt my throateither way.
So, as you heard in one of theother episodes that we've done,
Angie has finally seen the light, if that's how you want to say.
(01:49):
She has made the right choices.
High honor redemption in a RedDead kind of way Some other type
of bad pun jokes there Red DeadRedemption 2.
That's what we're talking about, AKA, the greatest fucking
video game ever made in myhumbled factual opinion.
So welcome back to anotherepisode of the Black Curtain
(02:11):
Club podcast.
I am your host.
Kyle Angie, the newly anointedWestern aficionado, is also here
with me.
Hey, Angie, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Hey, I'm good.
I'm still recovering from Reddead, from the ending, but I'm
I'm doing okay.
I I can't think about it toomuch.
Um, I'll get kind of emotional,but I'm doing okay um, you
never fully heal it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Just it gets a little easier.
It just gets a little easier.
It's kind of like frodo Hiswound will never heal.
He'll carry it the rest of hislife.
That feeling you have in thecenter of your chest, yeah,
you're just going to feel it forthe rest of your life.
But you know you did the rightthing.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you what.
The ending of Arthur's journeyis very emotional, but then
there's like two differentepilogues you have to play
through and I really wasn'texpecting that, like I knew it
was an epilogue, but like Ididn't know you had to like,
then you're playing as adifferent character and like the
(03:20):
shit that you have to do to getto like the of the rest of the
story that drove me crazy.
I will have to say that droveme crazy because I'm literally
shoveling shit.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
What does this have to do with I think the only
thing that's worse in theepilogue is probably some of the
parts in the beginning in thesnow of the culture.
That was pretty rough.
I will say that about the gameit it it does have.
There's a lot of placement,there's a lot of setup, there's
(03:55):
a lot I don't even call it likeyou know.
People say, oh, this game is acheckers, it's chest, you know
there's a lot of that setup,kind of shit.
I would say it's kind of like afucking tabletop game.
So there's a lot of setupbefore the game really starts
going, but then once it goes, itjust doesn't stop it just
doesn't stop and it just keepsgoing and going and then it just
(04:16):
abruptly ends with ripping yourgoddamn heart out.
And then you have to try to, youtry to have to try to make it
through life and you just Goddamn, it just can't do it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I wish there was a way that we could splice in
somehow my voice message to youat the end of that game, Because
I was crying, so I mean I wassaying you were sobbing, you
were sobbing.
I was.
I was absolutely sobbing, uglycrying.
This was emotional.
(04:49):
You get with terms ofendearment or some movie that
just rips your heart out.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Infinity War.
Stand by me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Or like my Girl, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
My Girl, my Girl Bridget Terbithia.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, he can't see without his glasses.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Marley and Me.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Anyhow, oh God, yeah, yeah, a Dog's Life.
Okay, I will tell you, I criedalmost as hard at the end of
this game as I did in A Dog'sLife.
And let me tell you something,oh shit.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That movie traumatized me and I I cried
almost as hard at the end ofthis game as that movie it was,
it's, it's, it's something likeI said the game's been out for a
while, so we can just go ahead,and we can just, yeah, just go
ahead and say it yeah I mean,and I will say the, the game for
(05:45):
me definitely was a slow burn,um, because, like it, I felt
like I spent the first 30 of thegame like I am never getting.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's gonna take me years to get through this game.
It's like I'm progressing soslowly and the game was so slow
for me.
I was like I like the sicknessthat he would get.
I kind of went into it prettyblind because you, you insulated
me from a lot of that.
You would not tell me, um, andbecause I knew what you would.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I knew what you would if I told you all the really
cool fun shit that I know you'regoing to be insanely obsessive
about.
You wouldn't have done anything.
You still wouldn't havecompleted the game.
You'd have been hunting all ofthat shit down you weren't
looking for the aliens and theserial killer and the cryptids
and all that bullshit.
You would have been looking forthe ghosts, all that stuff.
You weren't looking for all ofthat stuff, um, but now you get
(06:43):
to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, now I have to go back and do all of that, but
but yeah, I I will say I willsay that one.
You know, one of the thingsthat kept me engaged in the in
the game was just how beautifulthe game is.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's a work of art.
It's a fucking work of art.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It absolutely is a work of art.
It's a fucking work of art,breathtaking, and the detail
that they they put into thisgame is absolutely mind-blowing,
like I know we've talked aboutbefore, like the night sky, how
detailed, and you can see, likeyou can see the constellations,
you can see the milky way youcan like.
(07:37):
The placement of theconstellations is exactly where
you would be at that, you knowtime.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, for the people that we've lost.
We'll slightly explain that one.
So if you've played GTA oryou've played these ones, so
areas in the map resemble otherstates from like the 1800s, from
the cowboy era.
So you go to this part of themap and it looks like Texas.
If you go to this part of themap it kind of looks like
Wyoming the heartland, you know,utah, that fun shit.
(08:05):
You have the area that's kindof like louisiana and the
armpits and all the otherbullshit states and whatnot.
Right, so with that, becausethey can't call them those
states for whatever reasons, forlegality purposes, but everyone
knows which kind of stateyou're in- yeah, the night sky
is accurate to what state you'dbe in.
So if you're in the area, that'slike Utah, that's exactly what
(08:28):
the sky is going to look likeroughly around the summertime or
whatever the hell season andday of the week it is, and also
that kind of shit.
The sky looks exactly like that.
It is a copy-paste replica ofwhat that's the thought and the
detail that they put with thatone.
That's insane.
It's mind numbing.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And just the like, the detail in the animals, like
I can't tell you how many timeslike I would get the binoculars
out and just watch animals youknow find like a high place.
And you, you know, you can justand like how he journals and
you, you know, you can just andlike how he journals like you
know you can see something cool,and then he'll pull his journal
(09:10):
out and sketch it.
And just the little details,like that is really you know
kind of what grabbed myattention.
And then the story progressesand you have characters that you
kind of get attached to and youlove.
And then you have charactersthat you kind of get attached to
and you love, and then you havecharacters that you know that
you hate like some of them, justfrom the get-go.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You just kind of fucking hate them I tell you
like micah literally from dayone oh, fucking hate him from
the get-go, I fucking hate,micah micah can suck.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I hated him and I'll tell you somebody else that I
hated right from the get go wasDutch, could not stand him.
I thought he was the mostuseless turd in the sandbox that
I've ever seen he had a fuckingplan.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
He just needed some god damn money just some god
damn money to get to Tahiti.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, just one more, and this is it.
This is the big one, theloyalty that they all had to
this man who was just afloundering idiot that sat back
on his laurels and really didn'tdo much other than plan all
this stuff that would ultimatelyget most everyone killed.
(10:27):
You know it just, oh, I can'tstand him.
And so I cheated a little bitafter I played this game because
I was so upset because, likethere's no redemption, like
Dutch what he did, you know hedoesn't get his comeuppance in
this you know in this game, butI understand now that red dead 2
(10:51):
happens before red deadredemption yeah, and so I know
there's like there's yeah,there's a whole storyline with
John now and that Dutch doeseventually get his come opens.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And which is actually pretty nuts is that they just
slightly expanded the map a forred dead 2 from red dead 1 so
you can actually so actuallywhere that final scene happens,
like there's parts from thatgame that are that are part of
the map in here, so you canactually go to the area in red
(11:33):
dead 2 where dutch gets it inred dead 1 and there's like
little like you can go right tothat area and there's like a
crow or something like that.
There's little things you cango back and you can find in the
game.
So now, when you're done, whenyou're ready for your second
playthrough Because you will youabsolutely will, you can go and
(11:57):
you can go to these differentareas and now you can see all of
the extra stuff as Arthur, andyou can go to these different
areas and now you can see all ofthe extra stuff as Arthur and
see how it's different.
So you can go to that area andsee little Easter eggs.
Now, as a John, you can go backto all of the areas that were
your camps.
You can go to Clemens Point.
You can go to I forget, the,the Overlook, whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You can go can all the areas where your camps were
throughout the game.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, and you can go there and it's dead.
It's like dead quiet and asyou're just kind of walking
through, you'll hear likewhispers and like echoes of like
past, things like that.
So it's like the ghosts of likeit's like it's the memories.
You can go there and you'll hearlike different things you'll
hear, you know.
You'll hear arthur talking toyou know busting john's balls
(12:46):
about his face scars and thingslike that.
You go over to the tree at thatfirst camp about him.
Hey, next time that the wolveseat all your brains, all that
shit, right, you hear?
all of that you see all of that.
You go to different areas likethat throughout the game and
those memories are there.
Um, whether you've seen this ornot, you can actually go.
Everybody who died in the gamehas a grave.
(13:08):
You can go to their grave andpay respects oh, wow yeah, you
can go to arthur's grave and youcan pay your respects when you
get a hundred percent completion.
Um, there's another little,very, very small cut scene.
It's not like super importantor whatever, it's just a nice
little something.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But uh, yeah, so arthur has a grave in the game
no, I saw that because I watchedall of the um the credits and
let me tell you something thosecredits go on forever, like I
was like I could play the gameagain in the time these credits
I can get out of.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I can get out of the mountains by the time these
credits are done.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's how long these fucking credits are right, but
it was really interesting thoughthe cut scenes, because you got
to see, like, what happened tolike what happened afterwards
and yep um, I tell you one, oh,um, when I got to see what
happened with Tilly, oh, it wasbeautiful.
That made me so happy.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
With her and Mary Beth.
Mary Beth kind of touched myheart too.
Yeah, tilly and.
Mary Beth, I just listen nextto Arthur's, Next to Arthur, the
one that gets me Every singletime.
I just I mean that gets meevery single time.
I just I mean, I literally Ipaused, I audibly gasped when I
(14:28):
dropped my controller, when ithappened, Good old Lenny, lenny,
lenny yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Lenny.
Lenny was the death that mademe almost cry.
Well, yeah, I got teary-eyed.
I had tears when Lenny was thedeath.
That made me almost cry.
Well, yeah, I got teary-eyed.
I had tears when.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Lenny died.
And don't get me wrong.
I'm not taking anything awayfrom Hosea.
Hosea's was incredible.
I was like oh my.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That was shocking.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Exactly, I was like that was shocking.
I had a feeling he was going todie during the game.
Something told me just from theget-go, because I saw like how
close arthur was and how he wasto dutch.
I saw was I was like this man'snot making it out.
but if you want my honestopinion, I thought, um, I
(15:15):
thought for sure dutch wouldhave killed him.
I thought they would haveplayed that like that would have
shown his his real deep descentwas, uh, you know, like jose
was gonna know whether it waslike by accident, like there was
just like a like a some type ofum a confrontation going on,
(15:35):
like like, let's say, like umdutch had a gun drawn on someone
, like one of their jobs wentsouth and he's got a gun at like
innocent people and he'sthreatening people.
And Jose is like dude, what areyou doing?
Kind of thing.
And he goes like Dutch, whatare you doing?
Like go like hit the gun awayand the gun goes off.
I thought it'd been like one ofthose kind of things I didn't
think he actually would havelike killed him, killed him.
Like it would have from there.
(16:04):
But yeah, I was just, oh my god, and then it just it just
popped off from there.
And then you're there, you'reon the roofs and you're running.
Come on, it's this way blam.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
oh, I'll tell you, there was a moment, like at the
end, um, like where, wherethings were really starting to
fray and like people arestarting to question, like dutch
, that there was a moment Ireally thought that Dutch or
Micah more so Micah, but atDutch's discretion I really
thought that Abigail and Jackwere going to end up dead.
(16:35):
I was waiting for that tohappen.
I'm so glad that it didn'thappen but I kept thinking like
he's gonna do something that'sso despicable.
I mean he does in his, you knowthe his actions.
But I tell you, the other thingthat was shocked me, shocked the
(16:57):
shit out of me, was whathappened to Kieran.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, it's just the level, the gruesomeness, the
gore to it I think is what threwme through a loop.
Yeah, I really liked him.
That one hurt too.
All the deaths, all the deathsin the game, really.
Yeah.
The main deaths.
I should say Don't get me wrong.
What's her name?
Oh God, why can't I think ofher name right now?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Oh Grimshaw.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
No, not Grimshaw, the Irish lady Molly Molly O'Shea.
Oh, Molly yeah.
Like that kind of shocked me.
And then at the same time thatwas like yes, ms Grimshaw, she's
just a hardened bad bitch.
Like she wasn't't.
(17:44):
She didn't do it out of malice,she was just doing her like.
She said she goes, she knew therules.
She was like you know, at thatpoint they were just like she
was a rat.
Y'all know what happens to ratstalk shit get hit.
Simple as that, like and yeahshe was just doing her job, so
you gotta respect her for it.
Um, but then once again, all ofthe dicks that can be sucked in
the world.
Micah can do all of that when hefucking oh man fuck you micah
(18:06):
oh, yeah, yeah, micah, I knew Iknew it was coming, but it
breaks my heart a little bitwhen the people you know the
people who choose the sides andwhatnot, you know they choose
sides.
Um what's?
Uh, javier, he was fantastic inthe game, absolutely fantastic.
I loved him, incredibly loyal,just same thing.
(18:27):
Just one of those solid ride ordie dudes he didn't have much
dutch gave it to him.
So so his loyalties are therefor sure to the gang, but mainly
to dutch.
If you notice something in that,you know there's the, there's
the whole standoff going on.
Everyone's got the guns drawn.
Javier's gun is drawn but it'snot pointing at anybody.
(18:48):
So he knows what's going on iswrong, like he knows, like
there's still that.
You know there's thatquestioning.
He's not a hundred percent ondutch's side.
Meanwhile, micah, the otherguys are keeping those other two
schmucks that micah finds uh,bill, they all have their guns
(19:09):
drawn and pointing at john andarthur.
Javier has his gun drawn incase something goes off, but
he's not pointing the gun atthem because exactly that's how
loyal he was to everyone in thegang.
He still wasn't going to pointit at his brothers, essentially
Because, no matter what wasgoing on, it's an incredibly
small detail that if you blinkand you miss it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm now made it to the open world and all that.
I like John, but man, I'malready missing playing as
Arthur.
I'm already missing him so bad.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Roger Clark did an unbelievable job with the Just,
with the character, not just theactual writers that gave the
story, but full-blown justacting.
Like I said, not just thewriter, not just the writing of
the character, but the portrayalof the character was just it,
(20:05):
just it's unbelievable, justreally, really yeah on
believable it's so, and the factthat there's so many different
voice actors so you can get thatheavy immersion done.
What's wrong, what's tough withsome of these games?
You know you only have likelike skyrim, another game I
absolutely love.
I have so many hours clockedinto that game.
(20:26):
Um, there's only like six voiceactors in the whole game yeah,
it's like, so you can go to thetown and like the guy who voices
the jarl in this town, you goto the next one over and he's
the courier who's like robbingyou.
It's the same fucking voice.
It's like weren't you just theking who told me to come over
here.
There's literally thousands ofvoice actors, thousands of voice
actors yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that it's in
the world records Guinness worldrecords for the number of voice
actors.
But yeah, that's one of them,for sure.
There's one thing I want totalk about, and that is my most
favorite character besidesArthur.
(21:09):
The baddest bitch of them allis Miss Sadie Adler.
What a woman.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What a woman.
What a woman.
What a character Absolutelyfantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, I'm telling you , give me a second, you're good
that emotion happened.
That emotion came over me realfast.
Ah shit.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I got some jelly beans.
You like jelly beans?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Shit, oh, oklahoma.
But yeah, sadie Adler, she wentthrough a lot and she exacted
her revenge.
She, she kept on keeping on andshe was just she.
You know, she's just a lot oftimes like from a woman's
(22:09):
perspective.
You don't sometimes get a lotof really good female characters
that have like a lot of depthto them oh, I would argue that
she is the the best writtencharacter in the game.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Including arthur and john and everybody.
I think she is the mostperfectly um paced yeah
development, everything abouther fits, nothing is rushed,
nothing is taking too long,forever, absolutely perfect.
From the second you meet her tothe second she exits the game.
She is a completely differentperson.
(22:49):
Yeah.
And everything is right.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I would argue that she is the most well-written
character in the entire gamegame like I, I, because I, I
know, like you know, one of thethings was you know she had
talked about like she wanted togo to south america, you know,
just to kind of change peace now.
I mean rockstar, if you'relistening to this podcast.
(23:14):
Please develop a sadie adlergame, an extension of this
universe.
I need a sadie game.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I, I see it being I see being a spinoff.
I don't know if you've playedthe gta games, but they had, I
forgot.
I think it was for gta 4.
So gta 4 came out and they hada.
At least there was the onespinoff where you followed one
of the you played as, ascharacters for one of the biker
gangs, because Sons of Anarchywas the biggest fucking thing in
(23:46):
the world at the time.
So they kind of wanted to cashin on that one.
So they made essentially likehalf a game.
They didn't have enough contentto make a full-blown biker gang
GTA because they were alreadyworking on gta5, so they made a
little half game, I would say,where, like, let's say, let's
say the main game was 100missions long, this one was
(24:08):
probably like 30 to 40 missionslong, we'll say yeah, yeah and
you could still its own thing.
I think that's what I don't know, if I don't something about.
It says, I think just that,because it's it ties in, but it
is still its own standalone.
So people aren't gonna be like,oh, that's the extra characters
.
No, that's not the characterfrom Red Dead, that's Sadie
Adler.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
God damn it, she's her own yeah, yeah yeah, as she
said many times, I am my ownwoman.
Yeah, I would love to like seean extension of her story.
And what happens?
Where does she go after sheexits the game?
I want to continue with herstory.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I just love we just need more.
We just need more we just needmore about her.
Yeah, yeah, like I said it,just yeah for those, for those,
like I say, who don't know, itstarts as a distressing damsel,
but they don't leave her.
The poor ditzy, oh no, she'snot just sorry to be so crass
(25:10):
about it, but she's not justsome dumb broad that they just
like threw into the game.
You know what I meant.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
They could have just left her as, like, the damsel in distress.
She needed the big, strong manto come in and save her, and now
she's just going to be fawningover and doing whatever the hell
she wants?
Absolutely not.
We have that moment.
(25:31):
She is saved.
I would argue that.
Did she need the saving?
Technically, yes, but at thesame time, though, she was
fighting for her life.
You meet her Knife is drawn andshe's going after micah, like
you meet her and she's fightingand yeah then the next time,
then you that you bring her tocamp.
You don't see her that much.
What's the next thing we seeher doing?
(25:52):
Threatening to kill pearson.
So like she already has that,that rage, that anger, that
mouth.
She's always, she already is aum which is she's a.
She's a hot iron is what it isit needs to be forged, it has to
be tempered, it needs to behoned into, you know, into the
(26:12):
blade, into this beautifulmasterpiece that yeah she has to
be um, and exactly that.
and there's that little bit, andtime and time she proves that
she isn't just like you said,she's her own woman.
She isn't the damsel indistress.
She is just as rough.
She's just as tough, she's justas made for this world as the
(26:33):
men are.
Yeah.
I think one of my favorite, oneline that sticks with me so
much is right before the mission, right before you guys leave to
go to that O'Driscoll camp,right towards, way towards the
end of the game.
It's like the last mission youdo with her.
(26:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And Arthur's telling her listen.
When all listen, this isfinished.
Its days are numbered andthey're just kind of reconciling
that the two of them are.
They're arguably the sameperson.
I think Sadie was written asArthur's mirror.
Yeah.
In the game.
Just the way the two of themare and how it develops
(27:17):
throughout it.
So they said that they're moreum, I think he says it.
We're more ghosts than people.
Anyway, they both come torealize that they're just.
They're essentially dead inside.
Everyone else is fighting forthis, fighting for that.
They're just moving through,they're going to do what they
have to do, but they're just.
They know their days arenumbered and they're going to go
(27:37):
out on their own way, their ownterms and, however it goes,
they're going to do what theywant yeah and just whatever
happens happens, kind of a thingwhich is I just I love it so
much like.
And then you go, you do thatmission and at the end of it she
has her big breakdown and she'sand same thing.
Just just the conversation thetwo of them have and how like
(28:00):
everything was.
You know, everything was sowrong and so on and so forth.
Arthur, you're the only decentman I know, or you're the best
friend that I have.
You're the only good man that Iknow, because I know the company
you keep.
That's a low-hanging bar andshe's like, yeah, you say that,
but you are a good man.
You've made some bad choices.
But you are a good man.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You've made some bad choices but you are a good man,
yeah yeah, so yeah, their, their, uh, their friendship is is
pretty, you know, pretty specialand uh.
And I think, though, like her,her story arc, and I've been
(28:42):
thinking about the quote fromthe Departed I, I don't want to
be a product of my environment,I want my environment to be a
product of me.
Oh, I thought she felt funnyand I think you kind of see that
yeah.
She felt funny.
(29:02):
She felt funny Anyhow.
No, but yeah.
So I think at the end, like shedetermines, like okay.
So you know, all this stuff hashappened and now I'm going to
be the person to shape this newworld, because the world had to
(29:23):
change.
There was no room forgunslingers anymore in this
world.
You know, you saw that theme goall the way through and so she
was like you know what I'm goingto now be the mastermind
between what the new world isgoing to be, because she becomes
(29:43):
the bounty hunter Exactly, theyspent so much of their time
running from these people.
And then she realizes that shehas to shape the new environment
and and become what she feared,probably what they all feared
the most.
I don't know, maybe I'm gettingtoo philosophical about it, but
(30:03):
no, no, no million percent.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's exactly what just love her yeah, yeah, like I
said, they, they definitely did, she they everything they did
in this game they did withintention, absolutely everything
the way.
So, like you go back and you'llhear dialogue, you'll see
dialogue and, like I said, onyour next play through the game,
you'll probably pick up onother things, like the dutch's
(30:26):
descent started so much earlierthan people think.
Like, yeah technically itstarted before.
Technically started before thegame, during the whole thing in
blackwater.
That's when it actually started.
But then you pick up, when youfirst you do that fishing trip
with him and Hosea, you comeback and he has that little slip
up and he's kind of talkingabout it.
He goes I by, I I mean we aregoing to be okay, like you see
(30:49):
that little bit.
He's always been like that.
He's going to be like that itwasn't one thing that switched
it Absolutely, he absolutelyused everything he was, he was,
he was the snake in the grass,if you will.
He was that silver tongue kindof yeah.
You know, charismatic, whateverthe hell that um shit like wild
(31:09):
west, Jim Jones, if you will,yeah, Um that's exactly what it
was.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I almost thought that there would how I kind of
thought that it might end up orlike something that would have
happened would be that therewould be this situation where
they were up against thePinkertons or whatever, and I
knew that he was holding allthat money Like you know.
You know that you know thatmoney is going somewhere and I
thought he was going to justbasically take the money and run
(31:40):
and leave them all to like facethe Pinkertons and you know he
gets off scot-free.
I thought that was going tohappen, but you know I mean it
didn't happen.
But one of the things that Idid notice in the, in the credit
clips, was that the I don'tknow they were law enforcement
(32:08):
agents of some sort but they goand they actually find John.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
but they go and they actually find John, that's
Milton, that's Milton.
And no, not Milton, that's aagent Ross.
So the guy was with Milton Ross, that's Ross, and, um shit, I
can't think of it but they findhim and they must.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I mean, uh, my the.
What I took from it is they sawthat he was trying to like he
had the ranch, he had his son.
You know they were looking at.
You know him having this momentwith his son and they left him.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's what I gathered.
You want me to leave it at that.
You want me to rain on yourparade?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, I mean, I had the ending spoiled for me.
I tried to stay away fromspoilers in it, but it didn't
detract from from my experience.
So motion yeah, yeah, all rightgo ahead.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So that's so.
That's ross and that's ross,and I don't fucking remember the
other asshole's name.
But um, those are the two mainantagonists from Red Dead 1.
So those guys are there.
They're still.
Those are Pinkertons.
They're still looking for Johnand the rest of the gang.
So in Red Dead 1, those twoguys show up and they kidnap
(33:30):
Jack and Abigail and they prettymuch tell John hey, you need to
go hunt down Dutch Vandalin,javier Escuela, bill Williamson,
your former gang members, andbring them to justice, or we're
going to kill your fuckingfamily.
That's the game.
So that just goes to show.
Like I said, for the people whohave played the game, that is
(33:52):
an un, I'm talking about it.
I'm getting fucking goosebumps.
I wish you could see my armright now.
That is the when I saw that Ipretty much gasped as hard as I
did with like lenny and all thatkind of fun stuff.
Because that is a perfect,flawless seam between the two
games leading right into thefirst game is that, like the
(34:12):
agents found they were lookingfor john, they found him.
Now they're gonna show up andyou can start the game right
from there right from there youcan start the first game
wow, yeah yeah, it's so fuckinggood and I'm, I'm, I.
I think the first, the firstone of the second, the first
(34:34):
one's just as good as the secondone.
I think the same thing.
The story, the portrayal of it,just all of it.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
It's so damn good and there's just as much like Wild
West lore and Easter eggs andwhat have you in that one, as
there was in this eggs and whathave you in that one, as it was
in this, I really can tell why acharacter like arthur morgan is
so important to you.
Like, I think, like knowing youand then now playing this game,
(35:07):
it, I think, this game, hasmade me understand you even more
, and so, like, uh, like, Iunderstand now why you know
you're so passionate about yourcosplay, as, as arthur, you know
, um, I could understand why,like you know the, the leather
(35:28):
working, because you can, youcan craft all this stuff in the
in the game, and, like I don'tknow, I just think that this
game has just made me understandyou on an even greater level
and so, um, I'm just, I'm justreally grateful that you brought
this game to like into my, myworld and in my existence.
(35:51):
So thank you so much for thatyou're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I'm glad you.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it.
I really am yeah, I reallyreally am.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I want everyone to enjoy this game, because I
fucking love it yeah, and I willsay like, if you haven't played
this game and you've been onthe fence or it's just been one
of those games you just nevergot around to playing I highly
recommend it.
It's just an impactful kind ofstory and it's just great
(36:23):
storytelling that you get toparticipate in.
You know, it's like you'reparticipating in a movie,
basically.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Exactly, I nail on the fucking head right there.
It is a playable movie.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, so go go get it , play it.
Let it take up 60% of your oneterabyte.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
However much room it takes.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Xbox, however much room, make the room for this and
and play it you, you won'tregret it, not one bit.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
It's worth it.
I've been playing this game somuch since I got it when it came
out and I still I still haven'tgotten to 100 completion.
There's just so much to do andI just get sidetracked doing
everything else and then I'mlike, oh my god, I just want to
play the story again, so I startthe game over.
I think the closest I ever gotwas like 88% completion.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
So much left to do in the game, but at least I got
through the main story, allright.
Well, I guess we need to wrapthis up and thank you so much
for listening to this episode aswe talk about these characters
that we've come to love so much.
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
As we ride off into the sunset.
Now, hopefully you haven'tcried too much, too hard, and if
you haven't played the game,sorry for the spoilers, but
trust me it'll still.
It'll still, you'll still beshocked, it'll still impact you.
It's still worth every goddamnsecond.
Um, when you like, share andcomment, make sure you tag
(37:56):
rockstar games Games,specifically Roger Clark and the
other amazing voice actors thatput all the time and effort
into this game, because I wantsome jelly beans.
I would die.
If they listen to this and theycheck this out, I would cease
to exist.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Thanks for listening Again.
Please share If you enjoy thispodcast, you enjoy what you
listening Again, please share ifyou enjoy this podcast, you
enjoy what you're listening to,and please share with people.
Please give us comments andratings.
That will help us out more thananything else, and that kind of
help is completely free.
It just takes a couple secondsof your time.
Tune in.
Who knows what we're going tobe talking about next, but I'm
(38:33):
sure it'll be weird and crazy.
Anyway, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I gave you all I had.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Oh, Arthur, you're a good man.
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