April 11, 2024 • 47 mins
Welcome to another electrifying episode of the Black Expat Podcast. In this episode, your host Carl connects with Ioanna, an adventurous world traveler and an enthusiastic cyclist. Ioanna's love for travel was kindled during her college years in the UK when she would visualize exploring the world through travel brochures. Her fascination with travel turned into a profession that allowed her to visit over forty countries around the globe.
Ioanna shares her life-changing experience, biking across the Himalayas to raise funds for a charity that builds schools in India. It's not all about the destination for her; it's about the journey, the cultures she encounters, and the connections she forms. Italy, China, Kenya, Colombia, and India are among her top rated travel destinations for their distinctive cultures, affable locals, and breathtaking beauty.
Personal growth through travel is another important theme discussed in the episode. Traveling to places where English or Chinese isn't the primary language, Carl talks with Ioanna about how it provided an opportunity to strengthen his communication and survival skills, while also helping to foster personal connections.
Technology's evolving role in travel is also touched upon in this conversation. How can technology enhance personal and unique travel experiences and what are its pros and cons? Ioanna shares her experience and insights from a data-driven, customer-centric perspective.
Tune into this captivating endeavor around the world on two wheels with Ioanna in this episode of Black Expat Podcast. From heartwarming tales of global adventures and how it's okay not to be overly athletic (Ioanna loves biking more than running) to the enriching experience of booking unplanned encounters, this episode has it covered. GET INVOLVED: The NGO https://laikipia.org/mazingira-conservation-fund-mcf/ This is how the NGO raises money for the conservation projects: https://www.adventureforrhinos.org/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
My name is Carl, and I'm excited to be rocking with you guys for yet another episode.
I am very fortunate to be joined today by one of my wonderful colleagues who
has such an amazing story about all of her adventures around the world,
how awesome she is, and the amazing things she's done, is preparing to do,
(00:24):
and will do in the future.
So without further ado and spoiling all the amazing things she'll share with
us, I'll allow her to introduce herself and welcome her to the show. Hi, Joanna. Hi, Carl.
I'm so excited to be here. I'm Joanna.
I am Cypriot, American, but more like a citizen of the world,
(00:46):
I guess I would say. I'm a traveler.
I'm a cyclist. I'm a pretty happy person.
Generally, I'm like me.
As I confirm, she is always a very high energy, positive, just overall amazing person.
And it's a great person to share and be a part of a team with. It's just been amazing.
(01:10):
I'm getting to know Joanna. So I do have a question. Where are you in the world?
Because every time I speak, it seems It seems like you're either somewhere else
or you're preparing to go somewhere.
Where are you currently located and where are we speaking from right now?
I am currently on the fourth largest Mediterranean island. Do you know what that is?
You got me? When you said Mediterranean, I lost it. I know in Taiwan,
(01:33):
I know the fourth largest island around Taiwan, but not in the Mediterranean.
I am in Cyprus and I'm packing my bags to serve me in Greece.
In two days time now for a lot of people this is me this is for me where what
is next what is cyprus like how would you describe it and what is it next to
(01:53):
to kind of give us an idea just like.
Logistically where it is so people are trying to visualize what cyprus
is so cyprus if you
look at the mediterranean sea and you move
your eyes all the way to the east to
the right there's a little island that looks like
a swordfish in a way and it is found south of turkey to the east of greece right
(02:20):
above egypt and to the left of israel and what made you go to cyprus and how is it living there,
Well, my family is from Cyprus.
And early on in my childhood, we moved back to Cyprus.
So they, yeah, they moved around a little bit.
(02:42):
I was born abroad. And then eventually we came back to Cyprus.
And I spent most of my childhood here.
And then very little of my adult life here. Thank you.
(03:25):
I guess your love and your passion and your travel origin story,
like where did travel begin for you early on?
Um, and how has it inspired you and led you to travel to the many places you
have thus far in your life?
So my, as, as, um, a kid, I never thought about travel.
We were in Cyprus for most of my childhood outside of business trips.
(03:49):
My parents, we didn't really do family trips abroad much, right? So it wasn't on my radar.
And I only really discovered it when I moved to the UK for my undergrad degree.
But there is a travel starter story that I have.
And it involves, I think about how travel came to be in my life because it's such a big thing for me.
(04:15):
And it involves a travel company with amazingly compelling marketing material
that I walked past on a daily basis.
It involves putting all my college friends through a date auction at some point
in college, and I'm going to get to the story.
(04:36):
And it also involves a one-way way to get to Chicago. Wow.
So, you know, growing up in Cyprus, living at the age of 18 to go study in the UK, I,
And walking to the university every day, I'm passing through this travel agency
with the most amazing brochures.
It sounds like such a cliche, but I would, you know, get every time there was
(04:59):
a new brochure, I have the full collection in my attic.
I would, you know, get it and devour all the pages.
I would, it just sort of kind of sparked it. And I would wake up and think about
travel and sleep and think about travel.
I have this memory, I studied mathematics at uni, and I have this memory of
my third year exams. It's 3 a.m. and I'm trying desperately to study for this
(05:23):
viscid fluid mechanics exam or something like that.
And I snap out of my daydream and there is like a full browser of Lake Louise
with like 12 tabs or something.
And I'm realizing that I've been planning this trip for the last two hours when I have an exam.
Just like, you know, planning fully detailed trips that I could not by no means afford. for it.
(05:47):
But then, you know, the passion was there.
And at the same time at uni, I
was working a lot with fundraisers and fundraising for various charities.
And I still do some of that for travel-related NGOs. And I'll get to that at
some point later in the podcast, hopefully.
(06:08):
But so fast forward to my master's degree in France, I was fundraising for this one charity.
That was building schools in India.
And they announced one day that, you know, whoever raises this much money will
get to go on a trip to India and see the actual schools and,
you know, the operation there and all these things. And I was like,
(06:30):
oh, my God, this is happening.
Start making bracelets at 12 o'clock at night, like selling them at the university,
selling cakes, doing everything. It wasn't really working.
And so that's when the date auction came to be on an Easter Friday.
Friday and it was super fun it was the
biggest networking event of the campus because it was catchy and it attracted
(06:55):
lots of people but basically you know it sounded just like an absurd idea but
it was a lot of fun and my friends went on with it and we I think we broke a
record that year. It was just amazing.
And next thing I know on a trip to India and I end up riding 700 kilometers
(07:17):
across the Himalayas with some people I met.
And that was, that was actually my cycling story as well.
Like how travel and cycling started with me for the first time.
And after that, But, you know, the trip happened.
I was now a traveler and I was just talking with a friend about my experience.
(07:39):
And she's like, oh, my God, I know this really great cyclo travel company that
you would be perfect for.
And I would never believe that somebody would, you know, pay me to ride a bike and travel.
But she pushed hard for me. She gave a recommendation letter for me.
And the minute that possibility entered my mind, I wasn't going to drop it.
(08:03):
So one-way ticket to Chicago, bus to Madison, Wisconsin, like 15-day boot camp and interns interview.
And then I had my first travel job.
Wow. Well, there's so many places, so many.
So, you know, I want to contextualize this because when I'm listening to the
(08:24):
story, right, then you're like, first of all, it's an amazing story.
It's an amazing journey to, you know, the field and a passion,
right? So you develop passions along the way.
But, you know, you started in Cyprus and like, oh, I went to school in the UK,
then I went to France, and then I went to Chicago. I go.
That's an amazing path and journey toward what you are passionate about now,
(08:44):
what you do professionally, and also what you do personally,
because cycling kind of came up in that as well.
I guess for me, it's like, I didn't realize that I love travel until I had done it several times.
I didn't even conceptualize it as travel. I was just doing stuff,
right? So in college, I studied abroad.
I was just doing stuff to figure out what I liked. And I came back,
it's like, oh, let's move to Taiwan. I was just doing stuff.
(09:05):
So I guess I want to pinpoint, point, when did it go from just,
I'm having these wonderful experiences and in its simplest form,
just doing stuff to like, Hey, this is what I love.
Like, what about that first job, right? You developed a passion for cycling
and then you were working at a company that featured that, right?
So what, what about that first experience you had working in travel kind of
(09:27):
propelled you to not just grow in it, but also stay in it and then see yourself
doing it for a long period of time?
I mean, it was, it felt with the risk of sounding cheesy, it felt like being in love.
There was like this cloud of happiness around me constantly all the time.
(09:49):
I was, you know, pinching myself and asking myself, is this really my life?
Like, you know, you're in the right place when you have a million reasons to
smile and nothing can really crumble you.
And And I was just super happy.
Like, I guess that's how I knew.
(10:09):
And you know what? That's true. It's like, I was so happy not being,
for me, it was not being at home.
I'm not being at home, but I was also so happy just walking around and seeing
so many different things and being energized by what was around me.
So another question, like cyclotourism, if you will, what is that?
What does that look like? Like how, what, and how many, what cycling adventures
(10:33):
have you been on have kind of changed you?
Like, what is that for people who may not know about the industry or these experiences at all?
So seeing a place from the saddle of a bike, you can move fast enough so that
you're covering some distance and you're seeing a lot of different things.
(10:53):
And you can also move slow enough so that you're smelling the flowers and you're
stopping to talk to a passerby.
And, you know, I think generally people who are riding a bike are trustworthy in a way.
Like not like you know they they're
just they're doing their thing that they're not earlier or
(11:14):
suspicious in any any way so i think
it always sparks up a conversation and it's a great way to do it it can also
be a really big adventure push for your boundaries and an exit from your comfort
zone so some of my cycling trips my solo self-supported trips were like that,
(11:34):
which means, you know, packing up your bike with panniers and attend and deciding that,
you know, I'm landing in Peru and I'm going to ride down to,
you know, to the Altiplano and down to the desert and up to Lima and catch a
flight out whenever I get there. Yeah.
(11:56):
What how do you condition for cycling long like
what's the longest you've ever cycled and then what is the conditioning for
that like how do you prepare do you do a lot of running or is it just i'm just
riding guys i ride every day and i do this like what does that look like i mean
there's no way that i'll run if i have a bike next to me the only reason i would run is that i don't.
(12:20):
But yeah by cycling a
lot or you know
by just starting getting on the trip and then
there's no option but to condition yourself what you're
gonna do you gotta ride a bike like yeah yeah
and how to the longest
okay the longest ride i've done i think the
(12:42):
biggest single day would be 180
kilometers but that was part
of a ride across england which
is from or across the uk
which is from lansan to jonah groats and it's um nine consecutive days of riding
a full century a day so 100 miles a day on average for nine days camping at
(13:08):
night and getting up morning and doing it again it was nice sorry you said a
hundred miles a day for nine days,
but okay this is first of all this is a my you
guys can't see my face my breath has been taken away every
time you want to sales any story i'm just like what really so i don't want to
get stuck in the cycling because you know i can but like how long is a hundred
(13:32):
how long does it take you in one day to cycle 100 miles just for the group how
long did it depend on how hilly or flat the trainees,
but if we, let me just do, you know, some of, let's just assume.
A hundred miles a day would take nine to 10 hours, I think.
(13:52):
And my comfort level is six to seven, especially now that I ride a lot less.
But, you know, when you're close, you just push the foot out.
And does that like include food stops or are you guys like just grabbing snacks
out your bag and putting your mouth as you're cycling?
Definitely i mean i was never that intense to you
(14:13):
know survive on gels alone i would
always stop for a lunch and you
know have something of substance in my stomach it
was never no naps okay okay well
that that guys if you're if you are into it
or you want to get into it let me know i can get more information because
i i can't i want to but i can't spend no podcast talking about
(14:36):
cycling but that sounds amazing so you
know how many countries have you experienced and been
to so far at this point in your life i think i should probably be in the mid
40s it's not 50 yet okay but definitely over 40 and your top three places you've
(14:56):
been to and then one thing that you'll You'll never forget about the experience
you had in that location.
That's hard.
It's really, really difficult. Okay, so Italy will always be my favorite country that speaks to my soul.
Every part of it, all the people, everything.
(15:19):
I get just unconditionally, irrevertibly in love with Italy.
I was probably Italian in a different life.
But Italy aside, right? Because who doesn't love Italy?
China was a profoundly interesting experience for me, and I would definitely
need to go back and want to go back.
(15:42):
Kenya and the whole East Africa area was really interesting to me for many, many reasons,
not just the beauty of it, but also the culture, the happy disposition of the people.
I always find myself in discovery and reflection when I travel,
(16:03):
and usually it's about the people. I loved Colombia.
And India is so multifaceted, and I would definitely want to visit more of it.
These are the ones that come to mind right now. No, and it is a very hard question, right?
Because it's like every place I visited, similar to you, I've connected with
(16:27):
the people. And that was something that I tried.
I think I inadvertently did with my first experience out of the country because
I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I was 20 years old.
I didn't really understand what was going on. So I had to rely heavily on my
people skills, which were severely underdeveloped and got developed real fast
when I was sharing at the airport and had to figure out how to get to school.
(16:48):
So, yeah, but from then on, I was like, hey, this is what's going to define my experience.
Right. I'm going to there's so many you can only take so many pictures and you
can only see certain things that everyone's seen so many times.
But it's the people and the connections that we make that really connect us
further with the locations that we're going to and the experiences that we're
having. So let's just say you weren't, you had never had these amazing experiences
(17:09):
and you weren't a traveler, right?
What other than working in travel and even cycling, what else could you see yourself doing?
If not these two things, what other things would you see yourself doing at this point in your life?
Definitely technology related, technology, product.
I mean, if it was a travel tech, you know, of course, travel again.
(17:33):
But I guess something that is data driven because my brain works in math and
something that is people centric,
like a data driven customer centric product development that solves an actual problem.
And your, your background in school, did you, did you study travel or was it data technology?
(17:56):
It was mathematics. Okay. Mathematics and then a master's in business when I
decided I did not want to be an academic.
And so, and I ask that because a lot of times people I talk to,
you know, I talk to the youth and I volunteer a lot and I talk to younger people
who are looking to get into their careers and they're like, oh,
(18:16):
if I don't do this, I won't be able to try different things in life.
I'm like, no, you just never know where life will take you.
Follow your passion. Learn about that as you're going through school because
that'll keep you interested and engaged.
But as life goes on, who knows what direction you'll get pulled in.
But don't limit yourself by thinking if I do this, I can't do that because anything
is possible. And it's not, it's never too late to try whatever or move in whatever
(18:40):
direction your spirit and your life is kind of pulling you in.
So I call this the elevator pitch, right?
So do you remember the first story I told you about travel when I met you?
If you don't remember, it's fine.
But do you remember anything I've told you about travel ever when we,
when I've met and we've talked? It's okay if nothing comes to mind.
Well, when I think of you and travel, I think of Taiwan instantly.
(19:02):
Simply that's my elevator travel pitch right the way i ended up in taiwan was just so,
so weird in a way but also serendipitous at the same time but for you like when
you meet someone for the first time and you're talking travel what's that first
or that main travel story that you ask that you talk about um that kind of shows
them who you are as joanna and how travel impacts impacts your life?
(19:25):
It probably would be that first solo trip to India at the age of 21 that I ended
riding 700 kilometers across the Himalaya.
But that's not my fun story that I say. That's not the story I'm most proud of.
My fun story is in Kenya.
And because it was such an unexpected turn
(19:48):
of events and so me and
my friends are in kenya and friend of
a friend of a friend is driving us to a mountain bike
race in like kpi it's called the 10
to 4 because the course goes from 10 000
feet to 4 000 feet and we're talking with
all the organizers the day before you know they were checking the
(20:09):
course for elephants mind blowing
so we're driving to this race in
a very dusty jib and all of a
sudden our driver that we just met a few hours ago
like friend of a friend of a friend makes like a
sharp u-turn and kind of it's a
jeep car so there's plastic in front of us we cannot talk with
(20:30):
him and he pulls in a field on the
side of the road and starts driving really fast like i
thought i was getting kidnapped and then you
know just kind of makes a turn and stops and
there's a a helicopter there and everybody gets
out and they're essentially trying to take somebody to the hospital because
(20:52):
there was a blind rider participating in the race and him and his pilot on a
tandem bike and they crashed so they had to go to the hospital and Julian.
Volunteered like he was the car nearby so we
get off the car they put the person in they drive
off to the hospital and we're stuck like in the bush in
(21:15):
this field on the borders of the
jungle and like three of us we
sort of look around okay sure we'll
deal with that and the helicopter is about to take off and
they're getting ready and right before they do like it
clicks that okay there's three girls here and the
very cute paramedic leans out and he's
(21:37):
like you guys need a ride because we're going back to the race so we hop in
the helicopter and go on a helicopter ride over pride rock and over the jungle
and land vip at the mountain bike race to watch it that is my My favorite story.
(21:58):
And that is, oh my God, that sounds so amazing. Oh man, that's so cool.
Like it's scary. It started off very scary, but I'm glad it had such a,
again, a handsome, a handsome and adventurous ending to it as well. That's amazing.
And so, cause when I was in, when I was in Kenya, my guide, his name was Julian
as well. He was super cool.
And yeah, it was, it's just, it's such a unique place. And like you said,
(22:20):
the people and the terrain itself,
but being able to go on a helicopter ride and see like that
is so cool yeah that's that
totally beats my my little taiwan story i'm gonna
pretend i'm you and tell that at the next time i go out and meet someone like
hey guys it's one time i was flying over yeah it was cool no worry i'll i'll
leave out some details i'll but anyway sorry when i want to stand it for a second
(22:44):
but what is so what is where is one place you've traveled to that you have no
problem never returning to again?
Ugh. The questions keep getting harder. I think,
I don't think there is such a place. Is there such a place for you? Yeah, there is.
(23:05):
Where was it? It used to be Cambodia. Oh, my goodness. I said this.
It used to be Cambodia, but now I need to go back because, of course, I sell Asia.
Man, but where was that place where I went? Oh, man. Chrissy's going to hate this.
Paris. I'm cool. I don't need to go back. It was Paris was Paris.
It was expensive and underwhelming for me.
(23:26):
So that's like one of the places where i was like oh it was cool i went let's
really go back well i guess i don't really need to go to santorini again you know it's beautiful i,
i'm a big fan of the geology but it's it's never gonna be less crowded than
now so i'll always go for waller greek island so yeah i do have an answer actually
(23:50):
you helped me yeah because i'm I'm going to, like, I want to,
I know France has more places that are definitely worth seeing,
but Paris itself, I'm like, I went there and I was, because I started,
and the thing is, I started in Italy.
So, I did a Euro trip many, many years ago and started in Italy.
Italy was just like, wow, like, this is so cool. The history,
the culture, the people, like, walking around.
(24:12):
And I went to Spain. I was like, oh, my God, this is cool.
And then I was like, oh, Paris. I was like, oh, this is expensive.
This is very, very expensive. I crepes the whole time, crepes the whole time and that was it.
But yeah, so it was cool. It is a very romantic place. I will say that definitely
would go back like for a romantic getaway, but I would have to have a couple
(24:33):
of million dollars before I do that.
Being in the travel field, right? And I haven't traveled so much.
I'm sure you get tons of questions.
What is the best piece of travel advice that you like to offer or to share with
people who ask for your travel advice usually?
Well, there's usually sort of a common pattern in the way that I plan my own trips, right?
(24:56):
So it's always going to involve planning.
Some of the nature of the country. It's going to involve, always going to involve
an out of your comfort zone adventure, like, you know, climbing the highest
peak of a country or cycling across a mountain range or a desert or something.
And then at the end, always an element of luxury and culture of that country.
(25:22):
So my travel knowledge that I will typically share is around those things.
That most inspire me and keep me excited.
And I guess, you know, I used to really love all the details of,
you know, travel operations and planning and itinerary perfectly.
(25:46):
And I would do that before I was really traveling. I would just,
you know, plan them to the detail.
And I could tell you, you know, if we spoke 10 years ago, I would probably tell
you, you know, if you go to a museum in Paris on a Sunday, it's free for everybody.
So if you have the money, go on a Tuesday.
And if you don't go on a Sunday, you know, these things, this would be my advice 10 years ago.
And my advice right now is, you know, go there to, to watch the sunset.
(26:10):
Said. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Look at, Oh, I am about to tear up over here.
Yeah. That's just, that's amazing advice, man. You just, I'm stealing all these advice ideas.
I'm like my advice. I tell people it's similar along the lines.
I say, Hey, like your first meal in a new place needs to be a really good one.
And your last meal, a good place needs to be a really good one.
Give yourself time to one, when you get there, land and like prepare,
(26:32):
like mentally prepare and mentally be present.
And oftentimes a good meal kind of grounds you.
So just make a reservation in advance, go there, talk about your expectations.
You don't have to talk about it out loud, maybe just with yourself,
but just prepare for what you're going to see and how you're going to experience
the world in your new location.
And the last meal is the same, like reflection. One thing that I wish I had
(26:53):
done more, like I said, 10 years ago was stop and reflect and really appreciate
more, not that I didn't appreciate it then, but appreciate more what I was actually doing.
Like being 22 years old and a year old trip, doing a year old trip with only
$10,000 dollars through all the, and ending in London for the Olympics.
That was cool, but I wish I had really stopped and kind of just been like,
wow, like this is what I was able to do.
(27:16):
And I want to do more of it and also capture that moment for myself and also
to share with family, friends, and others who may be also inspired or just have
questions about what it was like.
So similarly, it's just like appreciating more of the moments.
Like you're, you're, you're definitely going to do things.
You're going to see things, but the moments are kind of what stick with us and
last with us for a very long time so wow man this is i love talking to you we
(27:38):
should we should have our own podcast called kayana all right that was a bad
name all right next so at this stage of your life.
At this stage of your life are you more of a backpacker or are you more of a
luxury travel person and why,
Oh, well, I'm both right now planning a trip to Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan
(28:03):
with a friend and we're talking about gravel, biking it.
But I think a balanced mix because I can't, I love the challenge and the adventure
and the out of, like, I keep saying out of the comfort zone,
but that's so important to me.
It keeps me, you know, alive and excited.
(28:25):
And it provides for full immersion in a place. It puts you in a place of,
you know, travel serendipity where you will meet the shepherd and the passerby
if you're not on a full schedule and you're out backpacking and adventuring.
And it just makes travel so much more meaningful for me.
But also there is just something so nice about a perfectly planned portion of
(28:51):
a trip where where you don't have to lift a finger, you don't have to think about anything.
You have fine cuisine, you have exceptional hospitality.
And it's what we do professionally. So I never close the door to that because
it's another part of who I am.
So a balanced mix, and that is usually both the aspects in a single trip.
(29:15):
So an adventure trip will always end with a few days of luxury, luxury.
That's true. And I used to, back in the day, I used to look at a backpack and
I used to semi-like it. But yeah, I think at this stage, I'm like, you know what?
Leave that bag at home. I'm just going to check it back and keep it moving.
But yeah, I can totally agree.
(29:35):
And like, so I know you're a planner, like just at work and then also in your personal life.
Has there ever been a time where you kind of let go and let someone else plan and been surprised?
I mean, when you've taken a trip, not including fam trips, just like,
hey, I'm going to follow someone else. and let them take the lead?
Because for me, it's hard for me to do that. But is it a little bit easier for you? Yeah.
(29:59):
Actually, many of my personal trips as I became a more experienced traveler
and a more experienced solo female traveler would be largely unplanned.
So if I was on a self-supported trip where I have all the basics that I need
and I can really go wherever the wind blows me, I would, you know,
(30:22):
start it off with meeting people and seeing other travelers and seeing what the plans are.
How does that sound and go that way? So a trip in Colombia, for example,
I ended, I was only going to stop in the coffee region for two days in Salento
and I met such wonderful people and there was so much to do that I ended up
(30:43):
staying for 10 days and those were the best days of my trip.
So I always want to have some unplanned freedom for my personal journeys.
That's true. King of, I'll figure it out when I get there. I love,
I have an idea of what I want to do and I'm like, I'll figure it out when I to get there.
Not the best all the time. We'll say that, but definitely a nice doses of that helps.
(31:04):
Another question, like language. And I realized when I'm talking to my friends,
they say this and I, for a long time, I never even thought of this.
They was like, oh, well, you know, you speak Chinese. So of course you,
you want to go to places in Asia.
I'm like, well, you know, they don't speak Chinese everywhere in Asia,
guys. It's only certain places.
But I guess, I guess it does help to go to China and Taiwan and be able to,
you know, kind of sort of navigate on my own, how much, one,
(31:27):
how many languages do you speak?
And two, how much has language played a part in how you've been able to experience
the world? Yeah, I'll just stop it there.
First of all, I am so impressed that you speak Chinese every time I think about
it. That is just amazing.
For languages, well,
(31:48):
I grew up in English because these are my mother tongues. And then I did my
master's degree in France. So French comes from that.
And then Spanish was mostly living in Spain and traveling in Spanish-speaking countries.
I think that my trip to Peru took Spanish to a whole other level,
even though most people spoke Quechua there.
(32:10):
But it was the only avenue for communication. And I think that's what really
nailed Spanish in there. And, you know, of course, if you speak Spanish and
love Italy as much as I do, that, you know, falls into Italian eventually.
That, wow. Like, again, me, me and my little one language over here.
(32:31):
Like, it's just so, like, again, I wish I just had the mindset of,
because I took Spanish too, lost it. I travel out.
It's just, it's amazing, right? Because one thing I was talking about with someone
else was it really opens the world up to you and your ability to connect with people.
And now I know I look at it both sides. I've traveled to places where English
(32:52):
or Chinese isn't the language, and I've still built amazing connections.
And it's helped me with my interpersonal skills, communication skills,
and also just survival skills.
Like, hey, you don't understand me? How can I get across my meaning and how
can I do it in a respectful way?
So it's definitely helped in that regard. But it also, on the other side of
that, is it just opens up the world to you, right?
(33:12):
And I'm encouraging my nieces and nephews. I'm like, hey, learn as many languages
as you can so when you go places, you get it.
I just got back from Miami and the second language is Spanish and everything was in Spanish there.
And I was like, I'm glad I understand it a little bit and I can,
you know, figure things out.
But, man, how different would my experience be if I spoke it fluently or close to fluently?
And how would that transform what I'm able to take away from the experience
(33:34):
that I'm having? And that's just….
It's just amazing being able to
communicate in that way. It's back to the connection with people, right?
A part of what makes travel so special is the fact that you're meeting somebody
who lived an entirely different life than you.
And speaking the same language puts you from an observational point of view
(33:55):
to a communicational point of view.
For sure. Man, this is great. This is great stuff, guys. You guys are getting
all this for free. Shout out to you guys.
Who in the travel space is like who inspires you
like who is someone that you either look
up to or to someone or someone's work that you're like man this is
really great work that i that i really appreciate my the
(34:18):
people i found most inspirational in the travel space were my colleagues in
that first bike company that i had the privilege to work for all the people
that i worked with because that was a time in my life when, you know, everything was,
it was a time full of things I never thought possible.
(34:38):
And for them, it was a no big deal and second nature, like, you know,
picking up a bike and going to a different continent to ride from Gibraltar to South Africa.
They were talking about these things as if it was normal and they were doing them. And I all of a,
(35:01):
coming you know from a little small island in cyprus never having trouble before
and all these things so it was just entirely inspiring for me that you know
that you can do anything like you just get up and do it whatever you want to
do what's stopping you type of thing.
Yeah it's really inspiring for me for sure yeah and i think again i say this
(35:26):
i love the one of One of the beautiful things about my podcast and continuing
doing it for as long as I have is I get to meet people like you who continuously inspire me, right?
It's like, man, the stories, who inspires you and how that led to what you do
now and how it keeps you going are just all really important things that are needed in life, right?
(35:46):
Sometimes we can kind of get bogged down with work and with problems,
but I just try to take a deep breath every morning and say, man,
what am I grateful for today?
Who's going to inspire me today or who inspired me yesterday?
And then how can I take what I've gained from other people and pour it back
out to the world and those around me?
So, yeah, and inspiration is a very, very important part of life.
(36:08):
And I'm just so glad to hear that.
You're just surrounded by people who really pushed you and motivated you and inspired you as well.
So if you had a travel podcast or a podcast at all, it doesn't have to be about
travel. What would it be about and why? Okay.
You see, I am a Gemini and I change minds and opinions every 20 minutes.
(36:31):
So it would probably be a podcast that would rotate around very different subjects all week.
And one week it would be, you know, female financial literacy.
And the next week it would be riding a bike across the Sahara.
And then the week after that it would be about i don't know sustainability in the ecosystem.
(36:54):
That sounds amazing you know those are good things those
are great and i think someone asked me before they were like well your pockets
what do you talk about so i talk about everything under the travel umbrella
and there's so many things that travel can connect to so i can talk about my
personal life and connect to travel because it's it's me travel is who i've
always always been and who I want to continue to be. And yeah.
(37:15):
And I think podcasting is, I think you have a great podcast.
One, I can listen to you talk about cycling and your cycling stories all day.
So start there and I'll, I'll, I'll be your biggest fan.
So one of the final questions as we're winding down as a veteran in the travel
industry, how do you implement the spirit of travel in your day-to-day life?
(37:38):
By traveling. I'm not kidding.
I travel. I actually travel at least once a month.
It's an addiction. I am not working on it. I can stay as it is.
Sometimes I will be planning a trip for my customers and, you know,
put my heart and soul into everything I can.
(37:59):
And then I'm still planning it and I find myself on a travel,
like on a flight website, looking at whatever cost to go to that destination and do the same trip.
And I guess to give you a more serious answer, my home kitchen is full of foods
(38:20):
from all over the world that remind me of different places I've been to.
Like vanilla from India, paprika from Andalusia, or, you know, truffle from Piemonte.
And, you know, whenever I'll find something that brings a memory from these
places that I love, it's definitely going to end up in my home.
(38:42):
And I try to cook with all these dishes from all these places that travel me somewhere.
My goodness, guys, y'all can't... What? That is amazing. Wow.
Wow. I mean, so you take a little bit, it's how travel tracks you.
(39:04):
It's like, I go to these places, I have these experiences, but what I've taken,
I don't just take it away.
It lives with me every day. So when you say like, man, like in my kitchen again,
and food is important, it's essential to life, right?
Like what gives me life is food, but also my travel experiences live with me
daily and I see it and it's a part of what I use to nourish myself.
(39:27):
Like that is, wow, guys, I'm that, sorry, I'm going to stop saying how amazing
that is because it's just so amazing.
I can't say it enough. That is fantastic. Thank you. you.
I have so many more questions, but I don't want to keep us going for too long.
So we'll probably have to circle back for another one. I get a little bit more
specific about your talk about many of the 40 places you've traveled to and kind of dig into that.
(39:51):
Well, I definitely just wanted to give the audience a dose of who you are as
a person and how travel defines you and how it's kind of shaped you and your life experiences.
But I know we could definitely talk about Greece and talk about Spain and talk
about Italy to really inspire people to I want to go to these places because
I know my stories are kind of, oh, party on the pirate ship,
very 22 year old ish on a very budget, on a tight, tight budget.
(40:13):
But there's so much more to Italy and all the places that you've been to that,
you know, like the back of your hand that I would love to learn about.
And I think the audience would as well.
So is there anything else, one that you would like to mention or talk about
for yourself? And then if there isn't, are there any questions that you have
for me as we wrap up our podcast today?
Well, I also, I wanted to, I was planning to bring up this nonprofit that is a great initiative.
(40:38):
It is, it's called the MCF Masingera Conservation Fund.
And it's a nonprofit in Kenya that raises money through travel for empowering
rural communities in Lake Pia for education and entrepreneurship,
like grants funds to people from rural Lake Pia area in Kenya.
(41:05):
And it's a nonprofit that I'm on the board and just helping with the overall organization.
But basically, I don't really know how to weave that in.
But it's something that's very dear to me because it actually has a real good
impact that travel can have on a community of people and it can change lives.
(41:32):
Yeah. Yeah. You can, after this, just make sure you text me the link and I'll
put it in the description of the show or something so people can learn and read
more about it and raise awareness.
Cause I think a lot of that, that's a great way to always, first,
that's an amazing initiative.
Kenya is one of the places that, again, I love them was the most important travel
experience I've ever had in my life.
So I would love to share that with the audience and to, for them to be,
(41:55):
to kind of see how they can help and support and just raise awareness as well. It's amazing.
Amazing. And is there anything else, any other questions?
Questions for you? Oh, sure. Go ahead, if you have any.
Well, I was thinking we know each other from being colleagues at a travel tech
(42:17):
company and Techs on the Rise.
I wanted to get your thoughts on how technology is changing and shaping travel. travel.
Ooh, that's a good question. I wasn't ready for that. No. Yeah. Tech.
It's interesting because when I first started traveling, how I only relied on
(42:40):
technology for like getting me there, not even figuring out the place itself.
Right. So I would wait unless like figured out when I get there,
I would literally get there and we would do maps and books.
And it was all like, I guess it was all things written down and talking to people.
So I always look forward to going to a place, staying in a hostel or a hotel,
(43:02):
but most likely a hostel and just meeting people and saying,
hey, what did you do here?
Oh, you're from here. What should I do and why?
Outside of the big things that you read in books, that was the best way for me.
Technology in a good way and a bad way removes that element and it helps,
it leads people to want to see more places, but they want to see more of the same places.
(43:25):
So I'm hoping that as technology grows and develops that it in some ways,
help certain people or all people figure out ways to experience many different
elements of a place instead of the same or similar elements of a place.
Because I know oftentimes when people say, we get questions like this,
like off the beaten path experiences, and they're like, oh, something I can't Google.
(43:46):
Sometimes it'll come up and it's like, well, even off the beaten paths now are Googleable.
We just have to know where to look. So it's figuring out, all right,
how do we utilize technology to not oversaturate certain places and certain
experiences, still allowing access, but still making things feel romanticized and personalized.
Personalized um so for me that's how technology is
(44:09):
going and how it impacts us in a positive and a negative way
and i'm just excited to see how we
kind of the harbors of the information and the creators of these these things
we're going to do in the future how we utilize it to make sure that each experience
for each traveler is unique and special through technology i mean the access
that it gives us and the speed it gives us to access all these amazing places.
(44:33):
Amazing. Yeah, that's such a good answer.
It's exactly how I think about it. You know, how to help travel grow sustainably
without oversaturating it.
Sustainable travel. I'm really excited about the future of sustainability in travel.
I know there's a lot of great organizations out there, but I definitely want
(44:56):
to educate myself more and also get involved more.
I think it's a really important part of travel that I don't want to say gets
overlooked, but I want to make sure that it's discussed a lot more so that we
all know how we can make an impact.
And again, you can't impact everywhere, but even if we just start with one place
or several places and kind of see the impact we can have.
I know Brian, one of our colleagues as well, was on the podcast previously,
(45:17):
talked about that for where he lives right now in Menorca, which is the smaller
version of Majorca, which sounds the same, but they're different. I promise, guys.
Are there any other questions that you have or any other thing you'd like to add?
Well, that's probably a question to start, not to finish, but what's your next
trip? Where are you going to next? Oh, yeah.
(45:41):
I'm actually going back to Taiwan for a little bit. But we're going to Cambodia and Vietnam.
Vietnam, I'm really excited. I haven't been in a very long time,
but I'm excited to see Cambodia, see Angkor Wat again. I did not have the best
Angkor Wat experience the first time I went.
It was food poisoning, terrible bathroom, didn't even have a faucet.
It was just, I didn't get food poisoning. My partner I was traveling with did.
(46:05):
And he stepped on a pile of ants. It was just, he's the guy that actually inspired
me to travel. He's one of my greatest friends.
But yeah, I didn't have the best. So I'm excited to go back and continue to
send people there because I know it's an amazing place. And same with Vietnam. I'm excited to go.
So Cambodia and Vietnam next month. You're going to go back and rewrite it all.
(46:25):
And then Cambodia will be off your blacklist.
It will. It will be on the green guys. You should go. So much fun. Look out for the photos.
But, Joanna, thank you so very much for taking time out of your busy schedule.
You're off to you're heading to greece next in
two days or so back to
(46:46):
greece are you stopping in santorini now you're gonna bypass
that on this on this trip skipping it bypassing
it so thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to just
make time to speak about your amazing experiences and about your amazing self
i really really appreciate it thank you so much for joining thank you carl and
thank you to everyone for tuning in to yet another another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
(47:10):
Make sure you guys like, share, subscribe, do all that good stuff,
leave comments, and check out the link in this description of this podcast for
an amazing organization that you will want to read about.
Again, my name is Carl. Thank you one more time to Joanna for joining me, the Black Expat.
We're out of here, guys. Thank you.
What up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
My name is Carl, and I'm excited to be rocking with you guys for yet another episode.
I am very fortunate to be joined today by one of my wonderful colleagues who
has such an amazing story about all of her adventures around the world,
how awesome she is, and the amazing things she's done, is preparing to do,
(00:24):
and will do in the future.
So without further ado and spoiling all the amazing things she'll share with
us, I'll allow her to introduce herself and welcome her to the show. Hi, Joanna. Hi, Carl.
I'm so excited to be here. I'm Joanna.
I am Cypriot, American, but more like a citizen of the world,
(00:46):
I guess I would say. I'm a traveler.
I'm a cyclist. I'm a pretty happy person.
Generally, I'm like me.
As I confirm, she is always a very high energy, positive, just overall amazing person.
And it's a great person to share and be a part of a team with. It's just been amazing.
(01:10):
I'm getting to know Joanna. So I do have a question. Where are you in the world?
Because every time I speak, it seems It seems like you're either somewhere else
or you're preparing to go somewhere.
Where are you currently located and where are we speaking from right now?
I am currently on the fourth largest Mediterranean island. Do you know what that is?
You got me? When you said Mediterranean, I lost it. I know in Taiwan,
(01:33):
I know the fourth largest island around Taiwan, but not in the Mediterranean.
I am in Cyprus and I'm packing my bags to serve me in Greece.
In two days time now for a lot of people this is me this is for me where what
is next what is cyprus like how would you describe it and what is it next to
(01:53):
to kind of give us an idea just like.
Logistically where it is so people are trying to visualize what cyprus
is so cyprus if you
look at the mediterranean sea and you move
your eyes all the way to the east to
the right there's a little island that looks like
a swordfish in a way and it is found south of turkey to the east of greece right
(02:20):
above egypt and to the left of israel and what made you go to cyprus and how is it living there,
Well, my family is from Cyprus.
And early on in my childhood, we moved back to Cyprus.
So they, yeah, they moved around a little bit.
(02:42):
I was born abroad. And then eventually we came back to Cyprus.
And I spent most of my childhood here.
And then very little of my adult life here. Thank you.
(03:25):
I guess your love and your passion and your travel origin story,
like where did travel begin for you early on?
Um, and how has it inspired you and led you to travel to the many places you
have thus far in your life?
So my, as, as, um, a kid, I never thought about travel.
We were in Cyprus for most of my childhood outside of business trips.
(03:49):
My parents, we didn't really do family trips abroad much, right? So it wasn't on my radar.
And I only really discovered it when I moved to the UK for my undergrad degree.
But there is a travel starter story that I have.
And it involves, I think about how travel came to be in my life because it's such a big thing for me.
(04:15):
And it involves a travel company with amazingly compelling marketing material
that I walked past on a daily basis.
It involves putting all my college friends through a date auction at some point
in college, and I'm going to get to the story.
(04:36):
And it also involves a one-way way to get to Chicago. Wow.
So, you know, growing up in Cyprus, living at the age of 18 to go study in the UK, I,
And walking to the university every day, I'm passing through this travel agency
with the most amazing brochures.
It sounds like such a cliche, but I would, you know, get every time there was
(04:59):
a new brochure, I have the full collection in my attic.
I would, you know, get it and devour all the pages.
I would, it just sort of kind of sparked it. And I would wake up and think about
travel and sleep and think about travel.
I have this memory, I studied mathematics at uni, and I have this memory of
my third year exams. It's 3 a.m. and I'm trying desperately to study for this
(05:23):
viscid fluid mechanics exam or something like that.
And I snap out of my daydream and there is like a full browser of Lake Louise
with like 12 tabs or something.
And I'm realizing that I've been planning this trip for the last two hours when I have an exam.
Just like, you know, planning fully detailed trips that I could not by no means afford. for it.
(05:47):
But then, you know, the passion was there.
And at the same time at uni, I
was working a lot with fundraisers and fundraising for various charities.
And I still do some of that for travel-related NGOs. And I'll get to that at
some point later in the podcast, hopefully.
(06:08):
But so fast forward to my master's degree in France, I was fundraising for this one charity.
That was building schools in India.
And they announced one day that, you know, whoever raises this much money will
get to go on a trip to India and see the actual schools and,
you know, the operation there and all these things. And I was like,
(06:30):
oh, my God, this is happening.
Start making bracelets at 12 o'clock at night, like selling them at the university,
selling cakes, doing everything. It wasn't really working.
And so that's when the date auction came to be on an Easter Friday.
Friday and it was super fun it was the
biggest networking event of the campus because it was catchy and it attracted
(06:55):
lots of people but basically you know it sounded just like an absurd idea but
it was a lot of fun and my friends went on with it and we I think we broke a
record that year. It was just amazing.
And next thing I know on a trip to India and I end up riding 700 kilometers
(07:17):
across the Himalayas with some people I met.
And that was, that was actually my cycling story as well.
Like how travel and cycling started with me for the first time.
And after that, But, you know, the trip happened.
I was now a traveler and I was just talking with a friend about my experience.
(07:39):
And she's like, oh, my God, I know this really great cyclo travel company that
you would be perfect for.
And I would never believe that somebody would, you know, pay me to ride a bike and travel.
But she pushed hard for me. She gave a recommendation letter for me.
And the minute that possibility entered my mind, I wasn't going to drop it.
(08:03):
So one-way ticket to Chicago, bus to Madison, Wisconsin, like 15-day boot camp and interns interview.
And then I had my first travel job.
Wow. Well, there's so many places, so many.
So, you know, I want to contextualize this because when I'm listening to the
(08:24):
story, right, then you're like, first of all, it's an amazing story.
It's an amazing journey to, you know, the field and a passion,
right? So you develop passions along the way.
But, you know, you started in Cyprus and like, oh, I went to school in the UK,
then I went to France, and then I went to Chicago. I go.
That's an amazing path and journey toward what you are passionate about now,
(08:44):
what you do professionally, and also what you do personally,
because cycling kind of came up in that as well.
I guess for me, it's like, I didn't realize that I love travel until I had done it several times.
I didn't even conceptualize it as travel. I was just doing stuff,
right? So in college, I studied abroad.
I was just doing stuff to figure out what I liked. And I came back,
it's like, oh, let's move to Taiwan. I was just doing stuff.
(09:05):
So I guess I want to pinpoint, point, when did it go from just,
I'm having these wonderful experiences and in its simplest form,
just doing stuff to like, Hey, this is what I love.
Like, what about that first job, right? You developed a passion for cycling
and then you were working at a company that featured that, right?
So what, what about that first experience you had working in travel kind of
(09:27):
propelled you to not just grow in it, but also stay in it and then see yourself
doing it for a long period of time?
I mean, it was, it felt with the risk of sounding cheesy, it felt like being in love.
There was like this cloud of happiness around me constantly all the time.
(09:49):
I was, you know, pinching myself and asking myself, is this really my life?
Like, you know, you're in the right place when you have a million reasons to
smile and nothing can really crumble you.
And And I was just super happy.
Like, I guess that's how I knew.
(10:09):
And you know what? That's true. It's like, I was so happy not being,
for me, it was not being at home.
I'm not being at home, but I was also so happy just walking around and seeing
so many different things and being energized by what was around me.
So another question, like cyclotourism, if you will, what is that?
What does that look like? Like how, what, and how many, what cycling adventures
(10:33):
have you been on have kind of changed you?
Like, what is that for people who may not know about the industry or these experiences at all?
So seeing a place from the saddle of a bike, you can move fast enough so that
you're covering some distance and you're seeing a lot of different things.
(10:53):
And you can also move slow enough so that you're smelling the flowers and you're
stopping to talk to a passerby.
And, you know, I think generally people who are riding a bike are trustworthy in a way.
Like not like you know they they're
just they're doing their thing that they're not earlier or
(11:14):
suspicious in any any way so i think
it always sparks up a conversation and it's a great way to do it it can also
be a really big adventure push for your boundaries and an exit from your comfort
zone so some of my cycling trips my solo self-supported trips were like that,
(11:34):
which means, you know, packing up your bike with panniers and attend and deciding that,
you know, I'm landing in Peru and I'm going to ride down to,
you know, to the Altiplano and down to the desert and up to Lima and catch a
flight out whenever I get there. Yeah.
(11:56):
What how do you condition for cycling long like
what's the longest you've ever cycled and then what is the conditioning for
that like how do you prepare do you do a lot of running or is it just i'm just
riding guys i ride every day and i do this like what does that look like i mean
there's no way that i'll run if i have a bike next to me the only reason i would run is that i don't.
(12:20):
But yeah by cycling a
lot or you know
by just starting getting on the trip and then
there's no option but to condition yourself what you're
gonna do you gotta ride a bike like yeah yeah
and how to the longest
okay the longest ride i've done i think the
(12:42):
biggest single day would be 180
kilometers but that was part
of a ride across england which
is from or across the uk
which is from lansan to jonah groats and it's um nine consecutive days of riding
a full century a day so 100 miles a day on average for nine days camping at
(13:08):
night and getting up morning and doing it again it was nice sorry you said a
hundred miles a day for nine days,
but okay this is first of all this is a my you
guys can't see my face my breath has been taken away every
time you want to sales any story i'm just like what really so i don't want to
get stuck in the cycling because you know i can but like how long is a hundred
(13:32):
how long does it take you in one day to cycle 100 miles just for the group how
long did it depend on how hilly or flat the trainees,
but if we, let me just do, you know, some of, let's just assume.
A hundred miles a day would take nine to 10 hours, I think.
(13:52):
And my comfort level is six to seven, especially now that I ride a lot less.
But, you know, when you're close, you just push the foot out.
And does that like include food stops or are you guys like just grabbing snacks
out your bag and putting your mouth as you're cycling?
Definitely i mean i was never that intense to you
(14:13):
know survive on gels alone i would
always stop for a lunch and you
know have something of substance in my stomach it
was never no naps okay okay well
that that guys if you're if you are into it
or you want to get into it let me know i can get more information because
i i can't i want to but i can't spend no podcast talking about
(14:36):
cycling but that sounds amazing so you
know how many countries have you experienced and been
to so far at this point in your life i think i should probably be in the mid
40s it's not 50 yet okay but definitely over 40 and your top three places you've
(14:56):
been to and then one thing that you'll You'll never forget about the experience
you had in that location.
That's hard.
It's really, really difficult. Okay, so Italy will always be my favorite country that speaks to my soul.
Every part of it, all the people, everything.
(15:19):
I get just unconditionally, irrevertibly in love with Italy.
I was probably Italian in a different life.
But Italy aside, right? Because who doesn't love Italy?
China was a profoundly interesting experience for me, and I would definitely
need to go back and want to go back.
(15:42):
Kenya and the whole East Africa area was really interesting to me for many, many reasons,
not just the beauty of it, but also the culture, the happy disposition of the people.
I always find myself in discovery and reflection when I travel,
(16:03):
and usually it's about the people. I loved Colombia.
And India is so multifaceted, and I would definitely want to visit more of it.
These are the ones that come to mind right now. No, and it is a very hard question, right?
Because it's like every place I visited, similar to you, I've connected with
(16:27):
the people. And that was something that I tried.
I think I inadvertently did with my first experience out of the country because
I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I was 20 years old.
I didn't really understand what was going on. So I had to rely heavily on my
people skills, which were severely underdeveloped and got developed real fast
when I was sharing at the airport and had to figure out how to get to school.
(16:48):
So, yeah, but from then on, I was like, hey, this is what's going to define my experience.
Right. I'm going to there's so many you can only take so many pictures and you
can only see certain things that everyone's seen so many times.
But it's the people and the connections that we make that really connect us
further with the locations that we're going to and the experiences that we're
having. So let's just say you weren't, you had never had these amazing experiences
(17:09):
and you weren't a traveler, right?
What other than working in travel and even cycling, what else could you see yourself doing?
If not these two things, what other things would you see yourself doing at this point in your life?
Definitely technology related, technology, product.
I mean, if it was a travel tech, you know, of course, travel again.
(17:33):
But I guess something that is data driven because my brain works in math and
something that is people centric,
like a data driven customer centric product development that solves an actual problem.
And your, your background in school, did you, did you study travel or was it data technology?
(17:56):
It was mathematics. Okay. Mathematics and then a master's in business when I
decided I did not want to be an academic.
And so, and I ask that because a lot of times people I talk to,
you know, I talk to the youth and I volunteer a lot and I talk to younger people
who are looking to get into their careers and they're like, oh,
(18:16):
if I don't do this, I won't be able to try different things in life.
I'm like, no, you just never know where life will take you.
Follow your passion. Learn about that as you're going through school because
that'll keep you interested and engaged.
But as life goes on, who knows what direction you'll get pulled in.
But don't limit yourself by thinking if I do this, I can't do that because anything
is possible. And it's not, it's never too late to try whatever or move in whatever
(18:40):
direction your spirit and your life is kind of pulling you in.
So I call this the elevator pitch, right?
So do you remember the first story I told you about travel when I met you?
If you don't remember, it's fine.
But do you remember anything I've told you about travel ever when we,
when I've met and we've talked? It's okay if nothing comes to mind.
Well, when I think of you and travel, I think of Taiwan instantly.
(19:02):
Simply that's my elevator travel pitch right the way i ended up in taiwan was just so,
so weird in a way but also serendipitous at the same time but for you like when
you meet someone for the first time and you're talking travel what's that first
or that main travel story that you ask that you talk about um that kind of shows
them who you are as joanna and how travel impacts impacts your life?
(19:25):
It probably would be that first solo trip to India at the age of 21 that I ended
riding 700 kilometers across the Himalaya.
But that's not my fun story that I say. That's not the story I'm most proud of.
My fun story is in Kenya.
And because it was such an unexpected turn
(19:48):
of events and so me and
my friends are in kenya and friend of
a friend of a friend is driving us to a mountain bike
race in like kpi it's called the 10
to 4 because the course goes from 10 000
feet to 4 000 feet and we're talking with
all the organizers the day before you know they were checking the
(20:09):
course for elephants mind blowing
so we're driving to this race in
a very dusty jib and all of a
sudden our driver that we just met a few hours ago
like friend of a friend of a friend makes like a
sharp u-turn and kind of it's a
jeep car so there's plastic in front of us we cannot talk with
(20:30):
him and he pulls in a field on the
side of the road and starts driving really fast like i
thought i was getting kidnapped and then you
know just kind of makes a turn and stops and
there's a a helicopter there and everybody gets
out and they're essentially trying to take somebody to the hospital because
(20:52):
there was a blind rider participating in the race and him and his pilot on a
tandem bike and they crashed so they had to go to the hospital and Julian.
Volunteered like he was the car nearby so we
get off the car they put the person in they drive
off to the hospital and we're stuck like in the bush in
(21:15):
this field on the borders of the
jungle and like three of us we
sort of look around okay sure we'll
deal with that and the helicopter is about to take off and
they're getting ready and right before they do like it
clicks that okay there's three girls here and the
very cute paramedic leans out and he's
(21:37):
like you guys need a ride because we're going back to the race so we hop in
the helicopter and go on a helicopter ride over pride rock and over the jungle
and land vip at the mountain bike race to watch it that is my My favorite story.
(21:58):
And that is, oh my God, that sounds so amazing. Oh man, that's so cool.
Like it's scary. It started off very scary, but I'm glad it had such a,
again, a handsome, a handsome and adventurous ending to it as well. That's amazing.
And so, cause when I was in, when I was in Kenya, my guide, his name was Julian
as well. He was super cool.
And yeah, it was, it's just, it's such a unique place. And like you said,
(22:20):
the people and the terrain itself,
but being able to go on a helicopter ride and see like that
is so cool yeah that's that
totally beats my my little taiwan story i'm gonna
pretend i'm you and tell that at the next time i go out and meet someone like
hey guys it's one time i was flying over yeah it was cool no worry i'll i'll
leave out some details i'll but anyway sorry when i want to stand it for a second
(22:44):
but what is so what is where is one place you've traveled to that you have no
problem never returning to again?
Ugh. The questions keep getting harder. I think,
I don't think there is such a place. Is there such a place for you? Yeah, there is.
(23:05):
Where was it? It used to be Cambodia. Oh, my goodness. I said this.
It used to be Cambodia, but now I need to go back because, of course, I sell Asia.
Man, but where was that place where I went? Oh, man. Chrissy's going to hate this.
Paris. I'm cool. I don't need to go back. It was Paris was Paris.
It was expensive and underwhelming for me.
(23:26):
So that's like one of the places where i was like oh it was cool i went let's
really go back well i guess i don't really need to go to santorini again you know it's beautiful i,
i'm a big fan of the geology but it's it's never gonna be less crowded than
now so i'll always go for waller greek island so yeah i do have an answer actually
(23:50):
you helped me yeah because i'm I'm going to, like, I want to,
I know France has more places that are definitely worth seeing,
but Paris itself, I'm like, I went there and I was, because I started,
and the thing is, I started in Italy.
So, I did a Euro trip many, many years ago and started in Italy.
Italy was just like, wow, like, this is so cool. The history,
the culture, the people, like, walking around.
(24:12):
And I went to Spain. I was like, oh, my God, this is cool.
And then I was like, oh, Paris. I was like, oh, this is expensive.
This is very, very expensive. I crepes the whole time, crepes the whole time and that was it.
But yeah, so it was cool. It is a very romantic place. I will say that definitely
would go back like for a romantic getaway, but I would have to have a couple
(24:33):
of million dollars before I do that.
Being in the travel field, right? And I haven't traveled so much.
I'm sure you get tons of questions.
What is the best piece of travel advice that you like to offer or to share with
people who ask for your travel advice usually?
Well, there's usually sort of a common pattern in the way that I plan my own trips, right?
(24:56):
So it's always going to involve planning.
Some of the nature of the country. It's going to involve, always going to involve
an out of your comfort zone adventure, like, you know, climbing the highest
peak of a country or cycling across a mountain range or a desert or something.
And then at the end, always an element of luxury and culture of that country.
(25:22):
So my travel knowledge that I will typically share is around those things.
That most inspire me and keep me excited.
And I guess, you know, I used to really love all the details of,
you know, travel operations and planning and itinerary perfectly.
(25:46):
And I would do that before I was really traveling. I would just,
you know, plan them to the detail.
And I could tell you, you know, if we spoke 10 years ago, I would probably tell
you, you know, if you go to a museum in Paris on a Sunday, it's free for everybody.
So if you have the money, go on a Tuesday.
And if you don't go on a Sunday, you know, these things, this would be my advice 10 years ago.
And my advice right now is, you know, go there to, to watch the sunset.
(26:10):
Said. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Look at, Oh, I am about to tear up over here.
Yeah. That's just, that's amazing advice, man. You just, I'm stealing all these advice ideas.
I'm like my advice. I tell people it's similar along the lines.
I say, Hey, like your first meal in a new place needs to be a really good one.
And your last meal, a good place needs to be a really good one.
Give yourself time to one, when you get there, land and like prepare,
(26:32):
like mentally prepare and mentally be present.
And oftentimes a good meal kind of grounds you.
So just make a reservation in advance, go there, talk about your expectations.
You don't have to talk about it out loud, maybe just with yourself,
but just prepare for what you're going to see and how you're going to experience
the world in your new location.
And the last meal is the same, like reflection. One thing that I wish I had
(26:53):
done more, like I said, 10 years ago was stop and reflect and really appreciate
more, not that I didn't appreciate it then, but appreciate more what I was actually doing.
Like being 22 years old and a year old trip, doing a year old trip with only
$10,000 dollars through all the, and ending in London for the Olympics.
That was cool, but I wish I had really stopped and kind of just been like,
wow, like this is what I was able to do.
(27:16):
And I want to do more of it and also capture that moment for myself and also
to share with family, friends, and others who may be also inspired or just have
questions about what it was like.
So similarly, it's just like appreciating more of the moments.
Like you're, you're, you're definitely going to do things.
You're going to see things, but the moments are kind of what stick with us and
last with us for a very long time so wow man this is i love talking to you we
(27:38):
should we should have our own podcast called kayana all right that was a bad
name all right next so at this stage of your life.
At this stage of your life are you more of a backpacker or are you more of a
luxury travel person and why,
Oh, well, I'm both right now planning a trip to Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan
(28:03):
with a friend and we're talking about gravel, biking it.
But I think a balanced mix because I can't, I love the challenge and the adventure
and the out of, like, I keep saying out of the comfort zone,
but that's so important to me.
It keeps me, you know, alive and excited.
(28:25):
And it provides for full immersion in a place. It puts you in a place of,
you know, travel serendipity where you will meet the shepherd and the passerby
if you're not on a full schedule and you're out backpacking and adventuring.
And it just makes travel so much more meaningful for me.
But also there is just something so nice about a perfectly planned portion of
(28:51):
a trip where where you don't have to lift a finger, you don't have to think about anything.
You have fine cuisine, you have exceptional hospitality.
And it's what we do professionally. So I never close the door to that because
it's another part of who I am.
So a balanced mix, and that is usually both the aspects in a single trip.
(29:15):
So an adventure trip will always end with a few days of luxury, luxury.
That's true. And I used to, back in the day, I used to look at a backpack and
I used to semi-like it. But yeah, I think at this stage, I'm like, you know what?
Leave that bag at home. I'm just going to check it back and keep it moving.
But yeah, I can totally agree.
(29:35):
And like, so I know you're a planner, like just at work and then also in your personal life.
Has there ever been a time where you kind of let go and let someone else plan and been surprised?
I mean, when you've taken a trip, not including fam trips, just like,
hey, I'm going to follow someone else. and let them take the lead?
Because for me, it's hard for me to do that. But is it a little bit easier for you? Yeah.
(29:59):
Actually, many of my personal trips as I became a more experienced traveler
and a more experienced solo female traveler would be largely unplanned.
So if I was on a self-supported trip where I have all the basics that I need
and I can really go wherever the wind blows me, I would, you know,
(30:22):
start it off with meeting people and seeing other travelers and seeing what the plans are.
How does that sound and go that way? So a trip in Colombia, for example,
I ended, I was only going to stop in the coffee region for two days in Salento
and I met such wonderful people and there was so much to do that I ended up
(30:43):
staying for 10 days and those were the best days of my trip.
So I always want to have some unplanned freedom for my personal journeys.
That's true. King of, I'll figure it out when I get there. I love,
I have an idea of what I want to do and I'm like, I'll figure it out when I to get there.
Not the best all the time. We'll say that, but definitely a nice doses of that helps.
(31:04):
Another question, like language. And I realized when I'm talking to my friends,
they say this and I, for a long time, I never even thought of this.
They was like, oh, well, you know, you speak Chinese. So of course you,
you want to go to places in Asia.
I'm like, well, you know, they don't speak Chinese everywhere in Asia,
guys. It's only certain places.
But I guess, I guess it does help to go to China and Taiwan and be able to,
you know, kind of sort of navigate on my own, how much, one,
(31:27):
how many languages do you speak?
And two, how much has language played a part in how you've been able to experience
the world? Yeah, I'll just stop it there.
First of all, I am so impressed that you speak Chinese every time I think about
it. That is just amazing.
For languages, well,
(31:48):
I grew up in English because these are my mother tongues. And then I did my
master's degree in France. So French comes from that.
And then Spanish was mostly living in Spain and traveling in Spanish-speaking countries.
I think that my trip to Peru took Spanish to a whole other level,
even though most people spoke Quechua there.
(32:10):
But it was the only avenue for communication. And I think that's what really
nailed Spanish in there. And, you know, of course, if you speak Spanish and
love Italy as much as I do, that, you know, falls into Italian eventually.
That, wow. Like, again, me, me and my little one language over here.
(32:31):
Like, it's just so, like, again, I wish I just had the mindset of,
because I took Spanish too, lost it. I travel out.
It's just, it's amazing, right? Because one thing I was talking about with someone
else was it really opens the world up to you and your ability to connect with people.
And now I know I look at it both sides. I've traveled to places where English
(32:52):
or Chinese isn't the language, and I've still built amazing connections.
And it's helped me with my interpersonal skills, communication skills,
and also just survival skills.
Like, hey, you don't understand me? How can I get across my meaning and how
can I do it in a respectful way?
So it's definitely helped in that regard. But it also, on the other side of
that, is it just opens up the world to you, right?
(33:12):
And I'm encouraging my nieces and nephews. I'm like, hey, learn as many languages
as you can so when you go places, you get it.
I just got back from Miami and the second language is Spanish and everything was in Spanish there.
And I was like, I'm glad I understand it a little bit and I can,
you know, figure things out.
But, man, how different would my experience be if I spoke it fluently or close to fluently?
And how would that transform what I'm able to take away from the experience
(33:34):
that I'm having? And that's just….
It's just amazing being able to
communicate in that way. It's back to the connection with people, right?
A part of what makes travel so special is the fact that you're meeting somebody
who lived an entirely different life than you.
And speaking the same language puts you from an observational point of view
(33:55):
to a communicational point of view.
For sure. Man, this is great. This is great stuff, guys. You guys are getting
all this for free. Shout out to you guys.
Who in the travel space is like who inspires you
like who is someone that you either look
up to or to someone or someone's work that you're like man this is
really great work that i that i really appreciate my the
(34:18):
people i found most inspirational in the travel space were my colleagues in
that first bike company that i had the privilege to work for all the people
that i worked with because that was a time in my life when, you know, everything was,
it was a time full of things I never thought possible.
(34:38):
And for them, it was a no big deal and second nature, like, you know,
picking up a bike and going to a different continent to ride from Gibraltar to South Africa.
They were talking about these things as if it was normal and they were doing them. And I all of a,
(35:01):
coming you know from a little small island in cyprus never having trouble before
and all these things so it was just entirely inspiring for me that you know
that you can do anything like you just get up and do it whatever you want to
do what's stopping you type of thing.
Yeah it's really inspiring for me for sure yeah and i think again i say this
(35:26):
i love the one of One of the beautiful things about my podcast and continuing
doing it for as long as I have is I get to meet people like you who continuously inspire me, right?
It's like, man, the stories, who inspires you and how that led to what you do
now and how it keeps you going are just all really important things that are needed in life, right?
(35:46):
Sometimes we can kind of get bogged down with work and with problems,
but I just try to take a deep breath every morning and say, man,
what am I grateful for today?
Who's going to inspire me today or who inspired me yesterday?
And then how can I take what I've gained from other people and pour it back
out to the world and those around me?
So, yeah, and inspiration is a very, very important part of life.
(36:08):
And I'm just so glad to hear that.
You're just surrounded by people who really pushed you and motivated you and inspired you as well.
So if you had a travel podcast or a podcast at all, it doesn't have to be about
travel. What would it be about and why? Okay.
You see, I am a Gemini and I change minds and opinions every 20 minutes.
(36:31):
So it would probably be a podcast that would rotate around very different subjects all week.
And one week it would be, you know, female financial literacy.
And the next week it would be riding a bike across the Sahara.
And then the week after that it would be about i don't know sustainability in the ecosystem.
(36:54):
That sounds amazing you know those are good things those
are great and i think someone asked me before they were like well your pockets
what do you talk about so i talk about everything under the travel umbrella
and there's so many things that travel can connect to so i can talk about my
personal life and connect to travel because it's it's me travel is who i've
always always been and who I want to continue to be. And yeah.
(37:15):
And I think podcasting is, I think you have a great podcast.
One, I can listen to you talk about cycling and your cycling stories all day.
So start there and I'll, I'll, I'll be your biggest fan.
So one of the final questions as we're winding down as a veteran in the travel
industry, how do you implement the spirit of travel in your day-to-day life?
(37:38):
By traveling. I'm not kidding.
I travel. I actually travel at least once a month.
It's an addiction. I am not working on it. I can stay as it is.
Sometimes I will be planning a trip for my customers and, you know,
put my heart and soul into everything I can.
(37:59):
And then I'm still planning it and I find myself on a travel,
like on a flight website, looking at whatever cost to go to that destination and do the same trip.
And I guess to give you a more serious answer, my home kitchen is full of foods
(38:20):
from all over the world that remind me of different places I've been to.
Like vanilla from India, paprika from Andalusia, or, you know, truffle from Piemonte.
And, you know, whenever I'll find something that brings a memory from these
places that I love, it's definitely going to end up in my home.
(38:42):
And I try to cook with all these dishes from all these places that travel me somewhere.
My goodness, guys, y'all can't... What? That is amazing. Wow.
Wow. I mean, so you take a little bit, it's how travel tracks you.
(39:04):
It's like, I go to these places, I have these experiences, but what I've taken,
I don't just take it away.
It lives with me every day. So when you say like, man, like in my kitchen again,
and food is important, it's essential to life, right?
Like what gives me life is food, but also my travel experiences live with me
daily and I see it and it's a part of what I use to nourish myself.
(39:27):
Like that is, wow, guys, I'm that, sorry, I'm going to stop saying how amazing
that is because it's just so amazing.
I can't say it enough. That is fantastic. Thank you. you.
I have so many more questions, but I don't want to keep us going for too long.
So we'll probably have to circle back for another one. I get a little bit more
specific about your talk about many of the 40 places you've traveled to and kind of dig into that.
(39:51):
Well, I definitely just wanted to give the audience a dose of who you are as
a person and how travel defines you and how it's kind of shaped you and your life experiences.
But I know we could definitely talk about Greece and talk about Spain and talk
about Italy to really inspire people to I want to go to these places because
I know my stories are kind of, oh, party on the pirate ship,
very 22 year old ish on a very budget, on a tight, tight budget.
(40:13):
But there's so much more to Italy and all the places that you've been to that,
you know, like the back of your hand that I would love to learn about.
And I think the audience would as well.
So is there anything else, one that you would like to mention or talk about
for yourself? And then if there isn't, are there any questions that you have
for me as we wrap up our podcast today?
Well, I also, I wanted to, I was planning to bring up this nonprofit that is a great initiative.
(40:38):
It is, it's called the MCF Masingera Conservation Fund.
And it's a nonprofit in Kenya that raises money through travel for empowering
rural communities in Lake Pia for education and entrepreneurship,
like grants funds to people from rural Lake Pia area in Kenya.
(41:05):
And it's a nonprofit that I'm on the board and just helping with the overall organization.
But basically, I don't really know how to weave that in.
But it's something that's very dear to me because it actually has a real good
impact that travel can have on a community of people and it can change lives.
(41:32):
Yeah. Yeah. You can, after this, just make sure you text me the link and I'll
put it in the description of the show or something so people can learn and read
more about it and raise awareness.
Cause I think a lot of that, that's a great way to always, first,
that's an amazing initiative.
Kenya is one of the places that, again, I love them was the most important travel
experience I've ever had in my life.
So I would love to share that with the audience and to, for them to be,
(41:55):
to kind of see how they can help and support and just raise awareness as well. It's amazing.
Amazing. And is there anything else, any other questions?
Questions for you? Oh, sure. Go ahead, if you have any.
Well, I was thinking we know each other from being colleagues at a travel tech
(42:17):
company and Techs on the Rise.
I wanted to get your thoughts on how technology is changing and shaping travel. travel.
Ooh, that's a good question. I wasn't ready for that. No. Yeah. Tech.
It's interesting because when I first started traveling, how I only relied on
(42:40):
technology for like getting me there, not even figuring out the place itself.
Right. So I would wait unless like figured out when I get there,
I would literally get there and we would do maps and books.
And it was all like, I guess it was all things written down and talking to people.
So I always look forward to going to a place, staying in a hostel or a hotel,
(43:02):
but most likely a hostel and just meeting people and saying,
hey, what did you do here?
Oh, you're from here. What should I do and why?
Outside of the big things that you read in books, that was the best way for me.
Technology in a good way and a bad way removes that element and it helps,
it leads people to want to see more places, but they want to see more of the same places.
(43:25):
So I'm hoping that as technology grows and develops that it in some ways,
help certain people or all people figure out ways to experience many different
elements of a place instead of the same or similar elements of a place.
Because I know oftentimes when people say, we get questions like this,
like off the beaten path experiences, and they're like, oh, something I can't Google.
(43:46):
Sometimes it'll come up and it's like, well, even off the beaten paths now are Googleable.
We just have to know where to look. So it's figuring out, all right,
how do we utilize technology to not oversaturate certain places and certain
experiences, still allowing access, but still making things feel romanticized and personalized.
Personalized um so for me that's how technology is
(44:09):
going and how it impacts us in a positive and a negative way
and i'm just excited to see how we
kind of the harbors of the information and the creators of these these things
we're going to do in the future how we utilize it to make sure that each experience
for each traveler is unique and special through technology i mean the access
that it gives us and the speed it gives us to access all these amazing places.
(44:33):
Amazing. Yeah, that's such a good answer.
It's exactly how I think about it. You know, how to help travel grow sustainably
without oversaturating it.
Sustainable travel. I'm really excited about the future of sustainability in travel.
I know there's a lot of great organizations out there, but I definitely want
(44:56):
to educate myself more and also get involved more.
I think it's a really important part of travel that I don't want to say gets
overlooked, but I want to make sure that it's discussed a lot more so that we
all know how we can make an impact.
And again, you can't impact everywhere, but even if we just start with one place
or several places and kind of see the impact we can have.
I know Brian, one of our colleagues as well, was on the podcast previously,
(45:17):
talked about that for where he lives right now in Menorca, which is the smaller
version of Majorca, which sounds the same, but they're different. I promise, guys.
Are there any other questions that you have or any other thing you'd like to add?
Well, that's probably a question to start, not to finish, but what's your next
trip? Where are you going to next? Oh, yeah.
(45:41):
I'm actually going back to Taiwan for a little bit. But we're going to Cambodia and Vietnam.
Vietnam, I'm really excited. I haven't been in a very long time,
but I'm excited to see Cambodia, see Angkor Wat again. I did not have the best
Angkor Wat experience the first time I went.
It was food poisoning, terrible bathroom, didn't even have a faucet.
It was just, I didn't get food poisoning. My partner I was traveling with did.
(46:05):
And he stepped on a pile of ants. It was just, he's the guy that actually inspired
me to travel. He's one of my greatest friends.
But yeah, I didn't have the best. So I'm excited to go back and continue to
send people there because I know it's an amazing place. And same with Vietnam. I'm excited to go.
So Cambodia and Vietnam next month. You're going to go back and rewrite it all.
(46:25):
And then Cambodia will be off your blacklist.
It will. It will be on the green guys. You should go. So much fun. Look out for the photos.
But, Joanna, thank you so very much for taking time out of your busy schedule.
You're off to you're heading to greece next in
two days or so back to
(46:46):
greece are you stopping in santorini now you're gonna bypass
that on this on this trip skipping it bypassing
it so thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to just
make time to speak about your amazing experiences and about your amazing self
i really really appreciate it thank you so much for joining thank you carl and
thank you to everyone for tuning in to yet another another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
(47:10):
Make sure you guys like, share, subscribe, do all that good stuff,
leave comments, and check out the link in this description of this podcast for
an amazing organization that you will want to read about.
Again, my name is Carl. Thank you one more time to Joanna for joining me, the Black Expat.
We're out of here, guys. Thank you.
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