June 10, 2024 • 24 mins
Join Carl in this exciting episode of the Black Expat Podcast as he shares his transformative experience of revisiting Cambodia. Inspired by his colleague, Carl recounts how his perspective on Cambodia changed dramatically during his second visit.
Carl dives into the unique aspects of luxury travel, the significance of cultural immersion, and the profound impact of the pandemic on tourism and historic sites like Angkor Wat. Hear about his interactions with locals, the fascinating history of the region, and the unexpected surprises that made this trip unforgettable.
Discover why Carl believes every travel destination deserves a second chance and how his journey re-energized his passion for inspiring others to explore the world. Whether you're a seasoned traveler or planning your first trip, this episode is packed with insights and reflections that will ignite your wanderlust.
Don't miss out on Carl's adventures and invaluable travel tips. Tune in now to the Black Expat Podcast and start planning your next great escape!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:08):
My name is Carl, and I'm excited to be rocking with you guys for yet another episode.
I am back. I am Black, and I am the Black Expat. And this episode is brought
to you by Sophie Ann Burton, who is the Head of Global Curation at Sunset.
She probably didn't know that I shouted her out. I'm going to send her a private message.
And I hope she's okay with it, but she really is the inspiration behind this
(00:31):
episode because, as you guys know, I've said this on previous podcast episodes,
that Cambodia was one of those places where I'd been and I didn't feel like
I really needed to go back, right?
I didn't have the best experience the first time that I went.
But after speaking to Sofiane and she shared a little bit about her experience
when she was traveling through there and just gave me a little bit of perspective
(00:51):
about, hey, you know, you should probably give it a second chance,
not only because it's your job, but also because, you know, you just never know
how things are going to be the second time around.
And we talked about way more than that. And again, I did kind of know that,
but sometimes you need to push in the right direction.
And someone just listening to your shows and really saying like,
hey, I heard that you said this.
(01:11):
And it was just really interesting that I just so happened to be preparing to go back.
And I do want to spend time talking about that today because, guys, it was amazing.
Amazing cambodia was very very amazing the
second time around i think what i hadn't realized and
i think is a good you know and a bad thing the pandemic was a bad
thing no matter how you want to spend it right it wasn't a
(01:33):
good thing that happened for a lot of people around the world but
there were some things that came from it right like a lot of places that
you know their primary source of income was
tourism they had time to fix things up to
put attention to where they maybe we didn't have time to put attention to before
to change the way tourism happened in
some areas for historic sites like Angkor Wat that's in Cambodia they then had
(01:56):
the time to renovate it to fix it up to see where areas could be improved because
I didn't realize how many people had this mindset but a lot of business people
entrepreneurs very very smart people right knew that.
What the other side of the pandemic would look like. They knew that there was
the other side to it, right?
It wasn't always going to be no one's flying, everyone's wearing masks,
(02:19):
people are afraid to be around other people.
They had the foresight to see it. Some people even had the money to withstand it.
Myself personally, I didn't have the money to withstand it because I had just
put everything that I owned into a business that was highly dependent on people
being around each other.
But the other side of that was, dare I say, an enlightened.
(02:41):
Travel world where people who stuck with travel were the true goats of travel,
if you will, people who really, really loved it and wanted to see it through
and never wanted to leave this industry because it is their life.
Kind of like myself, I've always been in the industry and I've always loved it.
And no matter what, I just knew that this is my life's calling,
specifically specifically living and working in Asia for as long as I have.
(03:05):
And a big part of my job in Taiwan was literally convincing people to not visit
Taiwan, but live there, to become teachers there, to spend a year or two or three or four or five.
Some people that I've hired have been there for longer than I have,
right? Because I've taken some time off, been in America for three years,
but they've been there for more than 10 years.
(03:26):
They've built lives there. They've gotten married didn't have kids.
This is something that I was doing for the better part of a decade.
I was going into universities. I was meeting one-on-one with parents and young
adults and older adults and saying, hey, Tawana is an amazing place to live.
This is why you should come here.
You can save so much money. You can travel to all these different places.
(03:48):
And it is where I am now.
And when it came to different places throughout Asia, I could sell it similarly.
I didn't live But I had visited Thailand so many times and places like,
you know, Japan and South Korea and Indonesia, like I had been to these places.
So I could speak from a very personal place where I can tell you what to expect when you get there.
(04:13):
I can explain to you how beautiful it is. I could I could help you understand
why when you step off the plane, it'll be unlike any experience you've ever
had in your life. And guys, I'm getting to Cambodia, but I have to set it up correctly, right?
Because again, I wasn't there for that long. I wasn't there for weeks at a time,
but I was there for a good amount of time.
And it was so very different from my previous experience because one, I work in luxury travel.
(04:37):
So that aspect in and of itself is different, right? It's just a different type of experience.
And I think that's what helped me and what I do now in that I did the budget travel.
I've done the medium, like I have good money travel, right? Right.
But I've and I'm dipping into the luxury travel world.
And before I've had these experiences in these places, I was still able to,
(04:58):
you know, sell or convince or inspire people to visit just based on that.
I think in my opinion, when people think of travel, right, luxury travel, I want to focus on that.
You don't have to sell a hotel. People know the Rich Carlton brand, right?
If that's where you go, you know what you're going to expect with these brands
no matter where you are in the world. People know the Four Seasons.
(05:19):
They know when you look at a hotel website, they can get an idea of what the
hotel is going to feel like, right? And I really think that there's a difference
between selling Europe or inspiring people to go to Europe and Asia.
And I think Europe is more of an arranged experience because there's just so
much information and data out there.
There's so many people, Americans in particular, that have connections to the
(05:40):
land, to the location, to the people, to the place, to the community, to the food.
That it's more of an arranged experience, in my opinion.
I don't think that's the case for everyone, but for the majority,
I think it is. It's like, hey, I want to go to Europe.
I need you to help me figure out how to get around. I know I'm going to like
it. I don't need you to tell me that. I just need you to help me make it make
sense and plan my itinerary.
(06:00):
Whereas with Asia, outside of the islands, right, outside of the island destinations
where I didn't want to go there on a beach, right?
I don't really want to do culture. I just want to go hang out and have cheap
drinks, but be at a very nice hotel and wake up and see the ocean right outside of that.
Right. It's more than arrangement, right?
It's I want to understand what I'm going to feel like. I want to understand the culture there.
(06:23):
I've been on so many calls where people said, I have no idea what to expect when I'm going to Asia.
Right. I haven't talked to a lot of people who have. I have no idea what I'm
going to expect when I go to Europe.
Maybe it is. I don't work directly with Europe, but I have sold it before in
the past. And I've helped people go there in the past. And that's just not how
the dialogue usually starts.
Again, I could be wrong, but I'm speaking to my experience.
(06:44):
But in Asia, I've heard that so many times. It's like, hey, I need someone because
I have no idea what I'm getting into.
But I want to go to Cambodia. I want to go to Vietnam.
I want to go to Taiwan and I want to go to Japan.
But honestly, I'm scared to death because I have no idea what it's going to be like.
Right. And that's very fascinating.
(07:06):
It's very understandable but it's also very very
fascinating a lot of people including myself
included before i've lived there and had so much time there a
lot of people didn't or don't understand the history in some asian countries
outside of war right you have the you know the japan-american war you have the
vietnam war there's so many things that pop up into your mind that isn't the
(07:29):
history of the culture right so the desire and the want to go to asia is just different,
right? It's very, very different.
And honestly, that's what made visiting Cambodia so special, right?
It's not just about like travel is about the pacing, the pace of things, right?
(07:49):
When you're planning a trip for someone, when you're designing it as a travel
curator, as a travel agent, you're thinking about the pace, how they're going
to feel off the plane, what's the first thing they want to see.
But it's more than that, right?
I think when you're going Going to Asia, this is what I'm feeling more and more.
Again, why I love what I do.
I love my job so, so much because it's about what am I going to walk away with?
(08:13):
What am I going to feel while I'm there? What am I going to walk away with after visiting?
Because everyone's saying I should go to Asia, but I don't really understand or know why.
Like Angkor Wat is a world heritage site. It's one of the wonders of the world,
but I don't know much about it.
Like, I want to make sure I'm at a nice hotel just in case.
I'm like, oh, man, this is crazy. But at least my hotel is nice,
(08:34):
right? But there's so much more to it. And that's what made Cambodia so beautiful.
Because this time around, the first time I went, I was like a deer in headlights.
I was following my friend Brad.
I had no idea. I was like, oh, Anchor, why do you sound so cool?
Again, this was before Instagram and Facebook could post all these amazing photos and videos.
It was before that time. I was just reading, listening, and following someone
(08:55):
that said, hey, man, you have to see this.
I was like, well, you know what? I have three, a month vacation.
I'm a teacher. I have money in the bank. I'm going to go.
But this time, I wanted to and had to learn. I wanted to and needed to dig deep.
I wanted to understand, right? Because I knew what it felt like.
I knew how great it was. And I wanted to revisit that.
(09:16):
So when I'm speaking about it now moving forward, I'm able to tap in deeper
and help people understand how deeper the connection can be when they go to Cambodia.
Now, my wife was traveling with me and she had no idea what she was in for.
And it was the most pleasant surprise ever.
The look on her face and how much she learned, how much she honestly she grew
(09:38):
as an individual during our days there was like unlike anything I'd ever seen.
We had a guide and he was absolutely amazing. Amazing.
He told us so much about the history, about the culture, about his own personal
life, his own personal experience, what it's like to live like a local,
what they grow through, how much Cambodia has changed that you can kind of read
about, but it's different to feel and to hear from someone who's actually from the location.
(10:02):
Right. It's a different feeling. You retain it differently because you have
that emotional connection because you're talking with and to someone about a
place, about their home.
I think about it, no matter where you're from, how do you talk about America?
Right, oh yeah, it's the greatest country in the world. How do you talk about London?
Man, I love it, it's absolutely amazing. Like how do you talk about where you're from, right?
(10:23):
And how do you convince somebody? How do you have somebody feel that emotional
connection you have to where you're from?
Like people hear, like when I say I'm from Chicago, I say Chicago is the greatest
summertime city in the world.
It's the best place to be from May to August. Just in that one intro,
you guys can know, hey man,
That man loves Chicago. Maybe I should check it out. And that's how I felt about Ken Bodie and my wife.
(10:43):
And yet she was, I'd been, she had never been. She had no idea what to expect.
Angkor Wat had changed. It was way more tourist-friendly, but it was also friendlier
to the environment there, right?
Preservation, right?
Respectfulness, conservation, right? All these things had changed within Angkor
Wat to make it feel different when I was there, even though I had been there
(11:06):
before and I didn't go there last time with a guide.
I was reading maps and reading books and asking questions.
This time I had so much presented to me that I felt infinitely more connected to where I was going.
And my wife was the same. She's Taiwanese, right? So she was like,
I had no idea about all of this.
I think our hotel was nice. Don't get me wrong. We had a very nice hotel.
(11:27):
Shout out to Shintamani Angkor. It's a great hotel.
But that isn't what she walked away from the experience talking about.
She said she wanted to go back because she wanted to learn more.
She wanted to see more. or she wanted to do more, regardless of where we stayed.
Because again, I want to be, I'm being out in like luxury travels.
These are really nice hotels.
It's easy to say you like a place when you're super, super comfortable,
right? When everything around you where you live is great.
(11:51):
But outside of that, what are you taking me and what are you walking away with?
Not, oh, I went to a nice hotel. Like you can go to a nice hotel anywhere.
But what are you walking away with? And, you know, the funny thing is,
see, purposely before we went, because, you know, you have an itinerary and
I'm like, hey, baby, did you read the itinerary?
Did you look at it? She's like, no, I don't want to.
I'm like, man, I really wish you would really love your feedback on some stuff
(12:11):
or like I want you to be prepared for how tough it is, because one thing that
did come up, she was like, I don't know how you do your job and travel because
this is she was exhausted.
I said, she was in bed by 7 p.m. And I'm like, yep, gonna do some,
get home at eight or nine.
I'm like, gonna check some emails and, you know, gonna, gonna talk to a client and gonna set this up.
She's like, you're not exhausted. I'm like, yes, I am. But I love what I do.
(12:35):
That's why I can keep powering through it. But it is hard work.
It's not just, oh, you get to travel. Like, no, I'm actually like,
you ask a million questions and you're taking all these pictures of rooms and,
and like, you're, you're, you are noticing little spots that your clients wouldn't
like. I'm like, yeah, that's the game, baby.
Cool places, but it's hard work. And I'm glad she got to see that.
But yeah, she didn't read the itinerary at all.
(12:57):
She paid a lot of money to go with me, which I thought was insane.
I'm like, Hey, please read on. I need you to understand what you're spending $3,000 on.
Right. But you know, she trusts me. She knows I'm a travel professional,
but you know, that, that was amazing. That helped me.
And it re-energized me, recharged me.
I think oftentimes, you know, you, I'm always, I don't want to say selling travel.
(13:19):
I'm inspiring people to take these luxurious trips to these places in Asia,
but also to connect with the culture.
The luxury side is the hotel, the accommodation, you know, the rides from the
airport, things like that.
But the culture can't be super luxurious, right?
It is what it is. The culture is the culture, right?
Like, yeah, you can have a private luxury dinner inside of Angkor Wat,
(13:41):
but is that really what you, and that's great, right?
But outside of that, you want to know why you're in Angkor Wat,
what makes this dinner special, not just for the Instagram photos,
but for the knowledge, for the information.
And that's what I love about Asia, to be able to let people in on that little
secret that, and maybe it's not a secret, right?
Maybe I'm out of touch, right? I don't think so.
(14:02):
But I think for the majority of people, even in my own friend group,
it's like, oh, why do you want to go to Asia? I don't understand.
I take them one time, they're like, man, I want to go everywhere here now.
I'm like, yeah, I know. I told you. That's why I've lived here for so long.
So yeah, Cambodia was eye-opening and awakening for me. It was not like my first time there.
I did not get stranded at a bus stop. I did not get caught in a sandstorm while
(14:23):
eating breakfast outside of Angkor Wat.
I did have more time to interact with people who were actually from there.
I had time to ask questions, to walk around to see local markets.
I had time to interact with elephants at a rescue facility because the last time I was there.
People were riding elephants up and down and throughout Angkor Wat and up on
mountains, and they stopped that, right?
(14:44):
Post-pandemic, the best thing ever. So we got to see elephants who were now finally free.
But I also got to understand how elephants were used outside of tourism in Angkor Wat.
They're actually like people who farm in Cambodia. Like it's the jungle,
y'all. It's like the middle of nature.
There are tigers and lions and things that will kill people and hunt people.
(15:07):
So in some very, very rural places that you probably wouldn't see unless you
really asked to go there, elephants are used for protection for people to walk
around and farm and make a living.
And these elephants are like their family. They aren't hit. They're trained.
They aren't hit on. They aren't abused. They're fed very well.
They're given a lot of freedom.
But they are like the same way we kind of like their work animals,
(15:28):
like the water buffalo in Vietnam.
I'm going to talk about Vietnam in another podcast. But so I got to understand more.
Now, do I agree with everything? No, but I got to understand a lot.
I got to visit a rescue facility.
I got to ask questions that before I was like, hmm, that doesn't look cool.
You know, 21 year old me there.
I'm like, oh, you know what? That's that's not OK. I'm going to I'm going to walk away from that.
(15:49):
Or, hey, there's a big elephant by this gate where I'm trying to walk through.
What am I supposed to do? Right.
But yeah, it was so eye opening.
I highly recommend people visiting Cambodia. And here's what I will say.
Here's my biggest takeaway. Luxury travel or not.
There is so much benefit in going and visiting and staying in a place for more at least 10 days,
(16:17):
three to four days just to see anchor watch the instagram neat cm read three
four five days it isn't enough right and again i'm i'm on a time limit i need
to see things and to have a jam-packed schedule.
But man, when I go back for me, 10 to 14 days, I want to go to Phnom Penh and spend more time there.
I want to go to the islands and spend more time there.
(16:41):
I want to spend more time in I want to eat more local food. I want to ask more questions.
I want to walk away with more because unlike me, for most people,
revisiting isn't going to happen, right?
I've lived in Taiwan. I've visited Thailand more than 10 times.
I've visited Hong Kong. I go back.
(17:04):
And I not only go back, I go to new places like Australia, New Zealand,
Africa. I do that, but I also go back to Asia.
For that very reason, I didn't do everything there was to do.
Each and every time I revisit a place, I learn more about it.
That's why people have vacation spots that they Like, hey, I know people that
every year they come back and they get the same resort in Cambodia because the
(17:30):
hospitality, but also because of the people. And that's great.
Right. But I go back. I want to try different areas. I want to eat different
food. I want to go to the place I went to before and ask that person, where else should I go?
That's similar to this, because last time I didn't have time to do that. Right.
I don't know if you guys can hear it in my voice, but back to Cambodia was revolutionary for me.
(17:51):
I love going back. I need to go back. And it just reminds me,
honestly, guys, this is what I do.
Not only travel, I inspire people to want to travel.
I love travel to not just Asia, to all over the world.
I can sell it like nobody's business because it is my life's passion.
(18:11):
This is just something I do the past the time. It isn't just something that
I woke up. Well, it is something I woke up and all of a sudden realized was my passion.
But this I wake up and like, oh, you know, it's a really cool job. No, I love my job.
I love being able to talk to people about traveling anywhere.
You know, the thing that I did in Taiwan was that I I fell in love with teaching.
(18:35):
I didn't think that I would.
But as I mentioned earlier, I realized that as I said it right,
I'm kind of going reflecting as I'm talking. When I convinced people to come
and work in Taiwan, right, it was, oh, you're going to be a teacher, make good money.
But here's what's going to keep you there. It was always the travel aspect.
The living, the culture of Taiwan, the people, how nice they are,
(18:55):
the food, how great it is, the cost of living, how affordable is the health care, how great it is.
Oh, and by the way, you get to go to all these countries that are when two or
three hour flight of Taipei.
That was the settling point. I've been doing this my most of my life, almost 20 years.
And I put together teams. I was a director and leader of a team of 20 half Taiwanese,
(19:20):
half people from all over the world, from England, from Australia,
from right from all over.
That was my team. And I led them. And one of the biggest things we did was,
you know, we were convincing students, selling them on English as a great education,
but also, you know, inspiring each other to get out and see the world.
This is my calling. This is my passion. This is why I do it.
(19:42):
And it's for moments like this for people to come back and have the same reflection
that my wife did, the same reflection that I do.
I know in my heart that I can inspire a team of people that I work with,
that I work around, because I work with geniuses.
Geniuses in the fact that if you put all of us in a room, good things are going to happen.
(20:06):
And when you have a team like that, right, it's kind of like the Bulls,
right? When you have a team like that, all you need is someone to come in and
help maximize that potential.
That's it. That's all you need. And it just ties into what I was able to do in Taiwan.
I developed a team and I just was able to maximize everyone's potential because
my potential was maximized by somebody having faith and believing in me and
(20:26):
saying to me, hey, you could do this and you get to see and travel the world.
So back to Cambodia unlocked a lot of things for me.
It made me realize how much I love what I do, realize how much Cambodia is a
place worth going back to. And not just Cambodia, every place.
(20:47):
Now, again, guys, the question I always ask is a place that you don't feel like
you need to go back to. Not that it's such a terrible place you never want to go back to.
I'm not saying that what I said was I never, ever want to go back.
I just said that I don't necessarily need to go back.
Right. It's cool. I can. I don't need to. But I again, what are we if not able to be redeemed?
(21:08):
And this is my this is my redemption arc cambodia you proved me
wrong right i'm honest guys i'm up
front i'm in your face back to
cambodia literally changed my life so now in the future when i'm interviewing
guests and i ask that question my answer probably won't be cambodia probably
won't be any i'm gonna keep asking the question it probably will be you know
what every every place deserves a chance in the word of sophie right so yeah
(21:33):
guys i'm just excited i'm re-energized,
You guys know what travel does to me.
And I have so many more episodes coming up about my time in Vietnam.
I didn't spend much. I spent a little bit of time in Cambodia.
I spent most of my time in Vietnam and a longer time in Taiwan.
And that even tapped into my travel and Asia spirit.
I'm going to be living in Taiwan next year for an extended period of time,
(21:54):
most of the year, actually.
So, you know, I'm excited about it. My heart's excited about it. I'm just excited, guys.
I'm just excited. So if you haven't had the opportunity to go to places like Cambodia, Vietnam,
Southeast Asia, hit me up, ask me about it, reach out to my company,
Sunset, they'll connect you with me or they'll connect you with someone else
on my team who's equally as amazing and able to just do fantastic things.
(22:19):
I realized with this trip back that I want to transition, right?
I called myself a travel agent, called myself a travel podcaster,
but I didn't really feel it.
I feel like I've kind of hinted at it, but I didn't really feel it until recently.
And I reflected on the things I've been able to do and people I've been able
(22:39):
to inspire and people who have inspired me to kind of walk into your purpose
and to believe in who you are.
I'm a travel leader because I want to lead the way and pave the way for people
to step outside of their comfort zones and travel and have amazing experiences
and walk away from their experiences transformed,
(22:59):
inspired, and taking what they've learned and giving back to their family,
their friends, their friendship groups.
I want to lead in that way.
I have been leading in that way.
And now I just believe a little bit more than I did before.
And I trust myself.
Right. And I'm excited about the opportunities that I'll have moving forward
(23:23):
to help people have experiences like mine, better than mine, beyond mine.
And like so many others who visited the amazing continent of Asia and visited
places all over the world.
As y'all know, one of my favorite places is Australia and New Zealand. Y'all know that.
I mean, Taiwan, Taiwan number one, but man.
But anyway, before I go off on a whole nother tangent, not about back to Cambodia,
(23:44):
I want to thank you guys for tuning in to yet another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
My name is Carl. Carl, Black Expat, make sure you like, share,
subscribe, buy that plane ticket somewhere else.
Ask me about where else you want or need to go and let me get you there.
(24:06):
Again, I'm Carl, the Black Expat, the travel leader. We out here.
Music.
Music.
(00:08):
My name is Carl, and I'm excited to be rocking with you guys for yet another episode.
I am back. I am Black, and I am the Black Expat. And this episode is brought
to you by Sophie Ann Burton, who is the Head of Global Curation at Sunset.
She probably didn't know that I shouted her out. I'm going to send her a private message.
And I hope she's okay with it, but she really is the inspiration behind this
(00:31):
episode because, as you guys know, I've said this on previous podcast episodes,
that Cambodia was one of those places where I'd been and I didn't feel like
I really needed to go back, right?
I didn't have the best experience the first time that I went.
But after speaking to Sofiane and she shared a little bit about her experience
when she was traveling through there and just gave me a little bit of perspective
(00:51):
about, hey, you know, you should probably give it a second chance,
not only because it's your job, but also because, you know, you just never know
how things are going to be the second time around.
And we talked about way more than that. And again, I did kind of know that,
but sometimes you need to push in the right direction.
And someone just listening to your shows and really saying like,
hey, I heard that you said this.
(01:11):
And it was just really interesting that I just so happened to be preparing to go back.
And I do want to spend time talking about that today because, guys, it was amazing.
Amazing cambodia was very very amazing the
second time around i think what i hadn't realized and
i think is a good you know and a bad thing the pandemic was a bad
thing no matter how you want to spend it right it wasn't a
(01:33):
good thing that happened for a lot of people around the world but
there were some things that came from it right like a lot of places that
you know their primary source of income was
tourism they had time to fix things up to
put attention to where they maybe we didn't have time to put attention to before
to change the way tourism happened in
some areas for historic sites like Angkor Wat that's in Cambodia they then had
(01:56):
the time to renovate it to fix it up to see where areas could be improved because
I didn't realize how many people had this mindset but a lot of business people
entrepreneurs very very smart people right knew that.
What the other side of the pandemic would look like. They knew that there was
the other side to it, right?
It wasn't always going to be no one's flying, everyone's wearing masks,
(02:19):
people are afraid to be around other people.
They had the foresight to see it. Some people even had the money to withstand it.
Myself personally, I didn't have the money to withstand it because I had just
put everything that I owned into a business that was highly dependent on people
being around each other.
But the other side of that was, dare I say, an enlightened.
(02:41):
Travel world where people who stuck with travel were the true goats of travel,
if you will, people who really, really loved it and wanted to see it through
and never wanted to leave this industry because it is their life.
Kind of like myself, I've always been in the industry and I've always loved it.
And no matter what, I just knew that this is my life's calling,
specifically specifically living and working in Asia for as long as I have.
(03:05):
And a big part of my job in Taiwan was literally convincing people to not visit
Taiwan, but live there, to become teachers there, to spend a year or two or three or four or five.
Some people that I've hired have been there for longer than I have,
right? Because I've taken some time off, been in America for three years,
but they've been there for more than 10 years.
(03:26):
They've built lives there. They've gotten married didn't have kids.
This is something that I was doing for the better part of a decade.
I was going into universities. I was meeting one-on-one with parents and young
adults and older adults and saying, hey, Tawana is an amazing place to live.
This is why you should come here.
You can save so much money. You can travel to all these different places.
(03:48):
And it is where I am now.
And when it came to different places throughout Asia, I could sell it similarly.
I didn't live But I had visited Thailand so many times and places like,
you know, Japan and South Korea and Indonesia, like I had been to these places.
So I could speak from a very personal place where I can tell you what to expect when you get there.
(04:13):
I can explain to you how beautiful it is. I could I could help you understand
why when you step off the plane, it'll be unlike any experience you've ever
had in your life. And guys, I'm getting to Cambodia, but I have to set it up correctly, right?
Because again, I wasn't there for that long. I wasn't there for weeks at a time,
but I was there for a good amount of time.
And it was so very different from my previous experience because one, I work in luxury travel.
(04:37):
So that aspect in and of itself is different, right? It's just a different type of experience.
And I think that's what helped me and what I do now in that I did the budget travel.
I've done the medium, like I have good money travel, right? Right.
But I've and I'm dipping into the luxury travel world.
And before I've had these experiences in these places, I was still able to,
(04:58):
you know, sell or convince or inspire people to visit just based on that.
I think in my opinion, when people think of travel, right, luxury travel, I want to focus on that.
You don't have to sell a hotel. People know the Rich Carlton brand, right?
If that's where you go, you know what you're going to expect with these brands
no matter where you are in the world. People know the Four Seasons.
(05:19):
They know when you look at a hotel website, they can get an idea of what the
hotel is going to feel like, right? And I really think that there's a difference
between selling Europe or inspiring people to go to Europe and Asia.
And I think Europe is more of an arranged experience because there's just so
much information and data out there.
There's so many people, Americans in particular, that have connections to the
(05:40):
land, to the location, to the people, to the place, to the community, to the food.
That it's more of an arranged experience, in my opinion.
I don't think that's the case for everyone, but for the majority,
I think it is. It's like, hey, I want to go to Europe.
I need you to help me figure out how to get around. I know I'm going to like
it. I don't need you to tell me that. I just need you to help me make it make
sense and plan my itinerary.
(06:00):
Whereas with Asia, outside of the islands, right, outside of the island destinations
where I didn't want to go there on a beach, right?
I don't really want to do culture. I just want to go hang out and have cheap
drinks, but be at a very nice hotel and wake up and see the ocean right outside of that.
Right. It's more than arrangement, right?
It's I want to understand what I'm going to feel like. I want to understand the culture there.
(06:23):
I've been on so many calls where people said, I have no idea what to expect when I'm going to Asia.
Right. I haven't talked to a lot of people who have. I have no idea what I'm
going to expect when I go to Europe.
Maybe it is. I don't work directly with Europe, but I have sold it before in
the past. And I've helped people go there in the past. And that's just not how
the dialogue usually starts.
Again, I could be wrong, but I'm speaking to my experience.
(06:44):
But in Asia, I've heard that so many times. It's like, hey, I need someone because
I have no idea what I'm getting into.
But I want to go to Cambodia. I want to go to Vietnam.
I want to go to Taiwan and I want to go to Japan.
But honestly, I'm scared to death because I have no idea what it's going to be like.
Right. And that's very fascinating.
(07:06):
It's very understandable but it's also very very
fascinating a lot of people including myself
included before i've lived there and had so much time there a
lot of people didn't or don't understand the history in some asian countries
outside of war right you have the you know the japan-american war you have the
vietnam war there's so many things that pop up into your mind that isn't the
(07:29):
history of the culture right so the desire and the want to go to asia is just different,
right? It's very, very different.
And honestly, that's what made visiting Cambodia so special, right?
It's not just about like travel is about the pacing, the pace of things, right?
(07:49):
When you're planning a trip for someone, when you're designing it as a travel
curator, as a travel agent, you're thinking about the pace, how they're going
to feel off the plane, what's the first thing they want to see.
But it's more than that, right?
I think when you're going Going to Asia, this is what I'm feeling more and more.
Again, why I love what I do.
I love my job so, so much because it's about what am I going to walk away with?
(08:13):
What am I going to feel while I'm there? What am I going to walk away with after visiting?
Because everyone's saying I should go to Asia, but I don't really understand or know why.
Like Angkor Wat is a world heritage site. It's one of the wonders of the world,
but I don't know much about it.
Like, I want to make sure I'm at a nice hotel just in case.
I'm like, oh, man, this is crazy. But at least my hotel is nice,
(08:34):
right? But there's so much more to it. And that's what made Cambodia so beautiful.
Because this time around, the first time I went, I was like a deer in headlights.
I was following my friend Brad.
I had no idea. I was like, oh, Anchor, why do you sound so cool?
Again, this was before Instagram and Facebook could post all these amazing photos and videos.
It was before that time. I was just reading, listening, and following someone
(08:55):
that said, hey, man, you have to see this.
I was like, well, you know what? I have three, a month vacation.
I'm a teacher. I have money in the bank. I'm going to go.
But this time, I wanted to and had to learn. I wanted to and needed to dig deep.
I wanted to understand, right? Because I knew what it felt like.
I knew how great it was. And I wanted to revisit that.
(09:16):
So when I'm speaking about it now moving forward, I'm able to tap in deeper
and help people understand how deeper the connection can be when they go to Cambodia.
Now, my wife was traveling with me and she had no idea what she was in for.
And it was the most pleasant surprise ever.
The look on her face and how much she learned, how much she honestly she grew
(09:38):
as an individual during our days there was like unlike anything I'd ever seen.
We had a guide and he was absolutely amazing. Amazing.
He told us so much about the history, about the culture, about his own personal
life, his own personal experience, what it's like to live like a local,
what they grow through, how much Cambodia has changed that you can kind of read
about, but it's different to feel and to hear from someone who's actually from the location.
(10:02):
Right. It's a different feeling. You retain it differently because you have
that emotional connection because you're talking with and to someone about a
place, about their home.
I think about it, no matter where you're from, how do you talk about America?
Right, oh yeah, it's the greatest country in the world. How do you talk about London?
Man, I love it, it's absolutely amazing. Like how do you talk about where you're from, right?
(10:23):
And how do you convince somebody? How do you have somebody feel that emotional
connection you have to where you're from?
Like people hear, like when I say I'm from Chicago, I say Chicago is the greatest
summertime city in the world.
It's the best place to be from May to August. Just in that one intro,
you guys can know, hey man,
That man loves Chicago. Maybe I should check it out. And that's how I felt about Ken Bodie and my wife.
(10:43):
And yet she was, I'd been, she had never been. She had no idea what to expect.
Angkor Wat had changed. It was way more tourist-friendly, but it was also friendlier
to the environment there, right?
Preservation, right?
Respectfulness, conservation, right? All these things had changed within Angkor
Wat to make it feel different when I was there, even though I had been there
(11:06):
before and I didn't go there last time with a guide.
I was reading maps and reading books and asking questions.
This time I had so much presented to me that I felt infinitely more connected to where I was going.
And my wife was the same. She's Taiwanese, right? So she was like,
I had no idea about all of this.
I think our hotel was nice. Don't get me wrong. We had a very nice hotel.
(11:27):
Shout out to Shintamani Angkor. It's a great hotel.
But that isn't what she walked away from the experience talking about.
She said she wanted to go back because she wanted to learn more.
She wanted to see more. or she wanted to do more, regardless of where we stayed.
Because again, I want to be, I'm being out in like luxury travels.
These are really nice hotels.
It's easy to say you like a place when you're super, super comfortable,
right? When everything around you where you live is great.
(11:51):
But outside of that, what are you taking me and what are you walking away with?
Not, oh, I went to a nice hotel. Like you can go to a nice hotel anywhere.
But what are you walking away with? And, you know, the funny thing is,
see, purposely before we went, because, you know, you have an itinerary and
I'm like, hey, baby, did you read the itinerary?
Did you look at it? She's like, no, I don't want to.
I'm like, man, I really wish you would really love your feedback on some stuff
(12:11):
or like I want you to be prepared for how tough it is, because one thing that
did come up, she was like, I don't know how you do your job and travel because
this is she was exhausted.
I said, she was in bed by 7 p.m. And I'm like, yep, gonna do some,
get home at eight or nine.
I'm like, gonna check some emails and, you know, gonna, gonna talk to a client and gonna set this up.
She's like, you're not exhausted. I'm like, yes, I am. But I love what I do.
(12:35):
That's why I can keep powering through it. But it is hard work.
It's not just, oh, you get to travel. Like, no, I'm actually like,
you ask a million questions and you're taking all these pictures of rooms and,
and like, you're, you're, you are noticing little spots that your clients wouldn't
like. I'm like, yeah, that's the game, baby.
Cool places, but it's hard work. And I'm glad she got to see that.
But yeah, she didn't read the itinerary at all.
(12:57):
She paid a lot of money to go with me, which I thought was insane.
I'm like, Hey, please read on. I need you to understand what you're spending $3,000 on.
Right. But you know, she trusts me. She knows I'm a travel professional,
but you know, that, that was amazing. That helped me.
And it re-energized me, recharged me.
I think oftentimes, you know, you, I'm always, I don't want to say selling travel.
(13:19):
I'm inspiring people to take these luxurious trips to these places in Asia,
but also to connect with the culture.
The luxury side is the hotel, the accommodation, you know, the rides from the
airport, things like that.
But the culture can't be super luxurious, right?
It is what it is. The culture is the culture, right?
Like, yeah, you can have a private luxury dinner inside of Angkor Wat,
(13:41):
but is that really what you, and that's great, right?
But outside of that, you want to know why you're in Angkor Wat,
what makes this dinner special, not just for the Instagram photos,
but for the knowledge, for the information.
And that's what I love about Asia, to be able to let people in on that little
secret that, and maybe it's not a secret, right?
Maybe I'm out of touch, right? I don't think so.
(14:02):
But I think for the majority of people, even in my own friend group,
it's like, oh, why do you want to go to Asia? I don't understand.
I take them one time, they're like, man, I want to go everywhere here now.
I'm like, yeah, I know. I told you. That's why I've lived here for so long.
So yeah, Cambodia was eye-opening and awakening for me. It was not like my first time there.
I did not get stranded at a bus stop. I did not get caught in a sandstorm while
(14:23):
eating breakfast outside of Angkor Wat.
I did have more time to interact with people who were actually from there.
I had time to ask questions, to walk around to see local markets.
I had time to interact with elephants at a rescue facility because the last time I was there.
People were riding elephants up and down and throughout Angkor Wat and up on
mountains, and they stopped that, right?
(14:44):
Post-pandemic, the best thing ever. So we got to see elephants who were now finally free.
But I also got to understand how elephants were used outside of tourism in Angkor Wat.
They're actually like people who farm in Cambodia. Like it's the jungle,
y'all. It's like the middle of nature.
There are tigers and lions and things that will kill people and hunt people.
(15:07):
So in some very, very rural places that you probably wouldn't see unless you
really asked to go there, elephants are used for protection for people to walk
around and farm and make a living.
And these elephants are like their family. They aren't hit. They're trained.
They aren't hit on. They aren't abused. They're fed very well.
They're given a lot of freedom.
But they are like the same way we kind of like their work animals,
(15:28):
like the water buffalo in Vietnam.
I'm going to talk about Vietnam in another podcast. But so I got to understand more.
Now, do I agree with everything? No, but I got to understand a lot.
I got to visit a rescue facility.
I got to ask questions that before I was like, hmm, that doesn't look cool.
You know, 21 year old me there.
I'm like, oh, you know what? That's that's not OK. I'm going to I'm going to walk away from that.
(15:49):
Or, hey, there's a big elephant by this gate where I'm trying to walk through.
What am I supposed to do? Right.
But yeah, it was so eye opening.
I highly recommend people visiting Cambodia. And here's what I will say.
Here's my biggest takeaway. Luxury travel or not.
There is so much benefit in going and visiting and staying in a place for more at least 10 days,
(16:17):
three to four days just to see anchor watch the instagram neat cm read three
four five days it isn't enough right and again i'm i'm on a time limit i need
to see things and to have a jam-packed schedule.
But man, when I go back for me, 10 to 14 days, I want to go to Phnom Penh and spend more time there.
I want to go to the islands and spend more time there.
(16:41):
I want to spend more time in I want to eat more local food. I want to ask more questions.
I want to walk away with more because unlike me, for most people,
revisiting isn't going to happen, right?
I've lived in Taiwan. I've visited Thailand more than 10 times.
I've visited Hong Kong. I go back.
(17:04):
And I not only go back, I go to new places like Australia, New Zealand,
Africa. I do that, but I also go back to Asia.
For that very reason, I didn't do everything there was to do.
Each and every time I revisit a place, I learn more about it.
That's why people have vacation spots that they Like, hey, I know people that
every year they come back and they get the same resort in Cambodia because the
(17:30):
hospitality, but also because of the people. And that's great.
Right. But I go back. I want to try different areas. I want to eat different
food. I want to go to the place I went to before and ask that person, where else should I go?
That's similar to this, because last time I didn't have time to do that. Right.
I don't know if you guys can hear it in my voice, but back to Cambodia was revolutionary for me.
(17:51):
I love going back. I need to go back. And it just reminds me,
honestly, guys, this is what I do.
Not only travel, I inspire people to want to travel.
I love travel to not just Asia, to all over the world.
I can sell it like nobody's business because it is my life's passion.
(18:11):
This is just something I do the past the time. It isn't just something that
I woke up. Well, it is something I woke up and all of a sudden realized was my passion.
But this I wake up and like, oh, you know, it's a really cool job. No, I love my job.
I love being able to talk to people about traveling anywhere.
You know, the thing that I did in Taiwan was that I I fell in love with teaching.
(18:35):
I didn't think that I would.
But as I mentioned earlier, I realized that as I said it right,
I'm kind of going reflecting as I'm talking. When I convinced people to come
and work in Taiwan, right, it was, oh, you're going to be a teacher, make good money.
But here's what's going to keep you there. It was always the travel aspect.
The living, the culture of Taiwan, the people, how nice they are,
(18:55):
the food, how great it is, the cost of living, how affordable is the health care, how great it is.
Oh, and by the way, you get to go to all these countries that are when two or
three hour flight of Taipei.
That was the settling point. I've been doing this my most of my life, almost 20 years.
And I put together teams. I was a director and leader of a team of 20 half Taiwanese,
(19:20):
half people from all over the world, from England, from Australia,
from right from all over.
That was my team. And I led them. And one of the biggest things we did was,
you know, we were convincing students, selling them on English as a great education,
but also, you know, inspiring each other to get out and see the world.
This is my calling. This is my passion. This is why I do it.
(19:42):
And it's for moments like this for people to come back and have the same reflection
that my wife did, the same reflection that I do.
I know in my heart that I can inspire a team of people that I work with,
that I work around, because I work with geniuses.
Geniuses in the fact that if you put all of us in a room, good things are going to happen.
(20:06):
And when you have a team like that, right, it's kind of like the Bulls,
right? When you have a team like that, all you need is someone to come in and
help maximize that potential.
That's it. That's all you need. And it just ties into what I was able to do in Taiwan.
I developed a team and I just was able to maximize everyone's potential because
my potential was maximized by somebody having faith and believing in me and
(20:26):
saying to me, hey, you could do this and you get to see and travel the world.
So back to Cambodia unlocked a lot of things for me.
It made me realize how much I love what I do, realize how much Cambodia is a
place worth going back to. And not just Cambodia, every place.
(20:47):
Now, again, guys, the question I always ask is a place that you don't feel like
you need to go back to. Not that it's such a terrible place you never want to go back to.
I'm not saying that what I said was I never, ever want to go back.
I just said that I don't necessarily need to go back.
Right. It's cool. I can. I don't need to. But I again, what are we if not able to be redeemed?
(21:08):
And this is my this is my redemption arc cambodia you proved me
wrong right i'm honest guys i'm up
front i'm in your face back to
cambodia literally changed my life so now in the future when i'm interviewing
guests and i ask that question my answer probably won't be cambodia probably
won't be any i'm gonna keep asking the question it probably will be you know
what every every place deserves a chance in the word of sophie right so yeah
(21:33):
guys i'm just excited i'm re-energized,
You guys know what travel does to me.
And I have so many more episodes coming up about my time in Vietnam.
I didn't spend much. I spent a little bit of time in Cambodia.
I spent most of my time in Vietnam and a longer time in Taiwan.
And that even tapped into my travel and Asia spirit.
I'm going to be living in Taiwan next year for an extended period of time,
(21:54):
most of the year, actually.
So, you know, I'm excited about it. My heart's excited about it. I'm just excited, guys.
I'm just excited. So if you haven't had the opportunity to go to places like Cambodia, Vietnam,
Southeast Asia, hit me up, ask me about it, reach out to my company,
Sunset, they'll connect you with me or they'll connect you with someone else
on my team who's equally as amazing and able to just do fantastic things.
(22:19):
I realized with this trip back that I want to transition, right?
I called myself a travel agent, called myself a travel podcaster,
but I didn't really feel it.
I feel like I've kind of hinted at it, but I didn't really feel it until recently.
And I reflected on the things I've been able to do and people I've been able
(22:39):
to inspire and people who have inspired me to kind of walk into your purpose
and to believe in who you are.
I'm a travel leader because I want to lead the way and pave the way for people
to step outside of their comfort zones and travel and have amazing experiences
and walk away from their experiences transformed,
(22:59):
inspired, and taking what they've learned and giving back to their family,
their friends, their friendship groups.
I want to lead in that way.
I have been leading in that way.
And now I just believe a little bit more than I did before.
And I trust myself.
Right. And I'm excited about the opportunities that I'll have moving forward
(23:23):
to help people have experiences like mine, better than mine, beyond mine.
And like so many others who visited the amazing continent of Asia and visited
places all over the world.
As y'all know, one of my favorite places is Australia and New Zealand. Y'all know that.
I mean, Taiwan, Taiwan number one, but man.
But anyway, before I go off on a whole nother tangent, not about back to Cambodia,
(23:44):
I want to thank you guys for tuning in to yet another episode of the Black Expat Podcast.
My name is Carl. Carl, Black Expat, make sure you like, share,
subscribe, buy that plane ticket somewhere else.
Ask me about where else you want or need to go and let me get you there.
(24:06):
Again, I'm Carl, the Black Expat, the travel leader. We out here.
Music.
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