July 9, 2020 • 27 mins
In this episode of The Black Language Podcast, your host, Anansa provides the vision for this podcast.
Twitter: @blacklangpod
Instagram: @blacklangpod
Email: theblacklanguagepodcast@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Welcome to first episode of The Black Language
Podcast, where we talk about ourpeople and our language and
where talking black is anythingsaid by a Black person, I'm your
host Anansa.
And just a little bit aboutmyself.
I use she, her pronouns.
I'm from New York, shout out the519 Cap City, shout out El
Barrio, Spanish Harlem,Greeleyville, South Carolina,
(01:30):
and the rest of the WilliamsburgCounty.
I'm in my Robinson Cano yearplus two.
So I'm 26 and I'm a proudRavenclaw.
I'm a Leo sun and moon and Virgorising, get into it.
And I didn't know a thing aboutlinguistics until I was 18 in
college and decided to major init because so many of my
(01:52):
intuitions about linguisticsjust seem to be there.
After I graduated, I worked ineducation in Providence, Rhode
Island for two years.
And then from then I went to getmy master's in applied
linguistics.
Full transparency The currentname of the podcast may or may
not be temporary until I thinkof something better.
(02:13):
I had so many ideas, but theywere already taken.
If you have a better idea, let asista know because I'm
definitely checking for one, butI just knew that if I waited any
longer for the right name tocome along, I didn't know when I
was going to start because I satwith this project for just over
a year.
And it came about as I wasfinishing up grad school.
And I felt like much of what Iwas reading about Black people
(02:36):
and language didn't show ourdiversity and just made it seem
like we were all one thing likeBlack people in LA talk like
Black people in Albany, NewYork.
And I know that that's not thecase.
There are definitelysimilarities between us, but
there's so much about what itmeans to be Black in a
particular region.
Like what does it mean to beBlack in Providence, Rhode
(02:59):
Island or Rochester, New York.
And how is that similar and howis it different?
And what's crazy is actuallyafter grad school, I was in the
process of becoming a linguistwith a security firm and they
wanted a Black linguist, butthey didn't call it that
obviously.
And so I had to take multipletests and the final test was
transcribing a phone call, butthat was odee hard because we
(03:22):
talk differently in differentplaces.
The person on the phone, in theaudio that was recording sounded
like they were from like theArkansas, Missouri kind of area.
Ultimately I passed, but Iplayed the sound file over and
over again because although wehave a shared history and a
shared language, I could barelyunderstand what they were
saying.
(03:43):
Because again, we are not amonolith.
We are not just one thing.
And that firm did not know that,but I didn't end up going
through with the job.
That security firm contracts outto the United States, basically
to the FBI, DEA DHS includingICE and other government
agencies.
(04:03):
And there was no way in hell Iwas going to be surveilling
other Black people and helpingout ICE or those other agencies.
But, I say that to say thatthere are definitely linguists,
Black linguists who are doingthe work to say that we are a
diverse people and to stop usingall of these catch all
definitions of what it means tobe Black or what it means to
(04:25):
talk Black.
And so that was a big motivationbehind this podcast and another,
and another motivation, maybe Ishould stop now and say that I
do have a stutter.
I've been stuttering apparentlysince elementary school, but I
don't remember that.
What I do remember was being inmiddle school and stuttering so
bad.
I used to be like the kid whowould like be leaning my head
(04:46):
forward and blinking my eyes,trying to get sounds out.
But I don't think I'm gonna editthe stutter out.
Like I feel like it would becontradictory for me to have a
podcast about language and thenlike edit out naturally
occurring parts ofcommunication.
But I mean, even that, I feellike it's still ironic because I
am going to edit this.
(05:08):
And this is also not really likea very natural occurrence of
language.
Me just sitting here by myself,recording something by myself as
if I'm actually talking to otherpeople who are in the room.
Anyways, I say that to say thatI stutter, you're probably gonna
hear me stutter.
But back to what I was saying,another motivation behind this
(05:31):
podcast is the fact that so manyof my friends and what I see on
social media already shows methat we talk about language all
the time and we may or may noteven know it.
We're already talking aboutdifferent accents and what words
are popular and what cities andhow new slang emerges.
U m, but ultimately I feel sopassionately about this because
(05:52):
I am a linguist and I love whatI do.
I believe that linguisticsallows us to see life in a new
way.
We can see the rawness, and thebeauty, and complicatedness in
what it means to be human.
And so I'm excited to take thisjourney with y'all, because I
want to make this something thatall Black people can see
themselves in at one point oranother, because I know that
(06:12):
Blackness is not a monolith.
We are not one thing.
And so my goal is to beintentional about holding space
for all Black people.
Because like I said, as far asI'm concerned, Black language or
t alking Black is anything saidby a Black person.
So for today I felt like thefirst thing I should probably do
is just talk a little bit aboutwhat linguistics is and what it
(06:35):
focuses on.
So that way there's a, littlebit of a foundation for what
this becomes.
Um, so when people ask me what alinguist does, I say, I
definitely say somethingdifferent every time, because
truthfully, I don't even alwaysknow how to explain it.
So for me, what I normally do isask what the person asking me
like what their job is or whatsome of their hobbies are and
(06:58):
explain how linguistics plays arole in their day to day.
So like, for example, if youwork in education, there are
definitely linguists who studythe interactions between
teachers and parents andteachers and students.
If you're in business and sales,there are linguists who study
successful sales pitches.
If you're in communications,publishing, journalism,
(07:19):
advertising, marketing, there'sresearch in linguistics that
will back many of the decisionsthat you make in regards to
slogans, product descriptions,headlines.
Um, and definitely if you're inartificial intelligence,
computer science, there arelinguists behind your favorite.
Um, artificial intelligence islike Alexa and Siri I'm.
(07:40):
So I can go on with that, butalso if you have hobbies such as
gaming, there are linguists beststudy gaming language and chat
rooms.
If you're a skater, there arelinguists that study skate
culture.
Um, and so typically when I talkto people about linguistics and
how it relates to their day today, I like to say that I think
anyone can be a linguist becausewhen I talk to people, it feels
(08:03):
like something clicks for them.
And I'm like, that's where youwant to be.
Like, as long as you canrecognize the patterns and how
you speak.
That's all I really feel like Ido as a linguist is just
recognize patterns and speechand ask myself if these patterns
mean anything.
I'm sorry, not just speech also,because now all language is just
spoken, but I really feel like Ijust recognize patterns and
(08:25):
communication and ask myself ifthose patterns mean anything.
But formerly you could probablysay that linguistics is the
scientific study of humanlanguage.
And that ended up itself justsounds confusing, but that's
broken down into differentcategories.
And then those kinds, glories ofcourse have even more
categories, but mainly you havepeople who will study sounds,
(08:47):
and that's not to be confusedwith the alphabet and the
alphabet.
Actually, it doesn't even haveall the sounds that we make.
Um, then there are people whowill study structure and order
similar to like the grammar of alanguage, but not in the same
way that you were taught grammarrules in elementary school.
Then there are people who studymeaning, and then people who
(09:09):
study how we learn language andhow we process language.
And there's, you know, of courseall of those categories break
down into even more categories.
But a few questions thatlinguists might ask themselves
are how do we make sounds andperceive sounds, and how do they
change over time?
In what ways our language issimilar or different from one
(09:31):
another, how are languageslearned?
Why do adults and children learnlanguages differently?
Um, how is it that words carry,meaning?
How do individual words cometogether to form a sentence?
That means something, um, how dolanguage has changed over time?
That's one of my favoritequestions.
Like what did language soundlike a hundred years ago or a
thousand years ago?
(09:51):
And why am I someone talk acertain way and one situation
and talk a different way andanother, and there are so many
more potential questions.
Actually, a big researchquestion that I had when I was
in college was about liturgicallanguages, which are languages
that are used for religiouspurposes.
I always felt connected tostudying African influence
(10:12):
religions that were formedthroughout the Americas, during
slavery, such as[inaudible], whodo and voodoo, and while growing
up and visiting family memberson my mother's side of the
family, you know, I saw elementsof African spirituality and
African spiritual practiceseverywhere.
There was cups of water near thedoor, brooms over doors and
(10:34):
shrines dedicated to Africansaints with adornments and
decorations.
And then when I was in highschool visiting some of my
family down South, my cousinLeandre actually put me onto
this book.
I don't remember what the bookwas, but it was about, um,
Yoruba and the history of blackpeople in America practicing our
African religions.
(10:55):
And then we just got like, youknow, we just launched into the
conversation about how my familyare, you know, descendants of
Africans.
Who'd had these Africanspiritual practices.
And so for me, when I found outthat there was such thing as
liturgical languages, languagesused for religious purposes, I
was curious to know if theliturgical languages in our
(11:17):
African influence religions herein the Americas, if they shared
similarities to the languages ofour West African ancestors, like
key Congo and phone.
And the short answer to thatquestion is yes.
But another way that I can thinkto explain a little bit about
what linguistics is, is byexplaining what it ain't.
Oftentimes, when I tell peoplethat I study linguistics, they
(11:39):
will make two assumptions.
The first is that I knowmultiple languages.
And the second is that I'm acorrect the way they speak.
So first that is a myth thatlinguists speak many languages.
Um, what's funny is when I metmy current partner, we were
texting one night early in therelationship.
And I told them that I studiedapplied linguistics and he asked
me how many languages I speak.
(12:00):
And I almost lost all mypatients.
And it's probably a good thing Ididn't, but that's when I told
myself, this is the last timeI'm answering this question,
because what I ended up doingwas taking a Twitter to subtweet
him.
And he wasn't even following meat the time.
But because like, what I reallywanted to ask was like, how
would that be possible?
Like college is only a fewyears.
Like how many languages do youthink I'm gonna learn in four
(12:21):
years, in two years of gradschool.
Um, but being a linguist doesnot mean that you speak multiple
languages.
If you meet a linguist who doesspeak multiple languages, it's
probably because they come froma family that is multi-lingual
or they come from a place thatis multi-lingual.
There are definitely linguistswho will study one language and
(12:42):
one language family.
So they might be familiar withthe language, but they may not
feel comfortable speaking.
It's still, um, and then youmight meet linguists who speak
multiple languages because asidefrom their studies and
linguistics, they just mightlike to travel or be a worldly
person, or they see the value inspeaking more than one language.
(13:03):
Um, but just to wrap that up,being a linguist does not mean
that you learn languages.
The second myth that I want toaddress is that as a linguist,
I'm going to correct the way youspeak.
I have another story with thisone.
I was on a flight coming backfrom Memphis, and I was sitting
next to this older, wealthywhite woman.
And we spent a lot of the flighttalking and that's how I kind of
(13:23):
got to know that she waswealthy.
Um, but she asked me what I do.
And so I told her that I was agrad student studying applied
linguistics, and her immediateresponse was, Oh my goodness,
you must think, I sound terriblewith this Twain.
And, and, and she did have areally strong, you know, Memphis
accent.
But what I thought was sointeresting is that here I am a
(13:45):
young black woman sitting nextto this person with way more
privileged than me.
And yet she thinks that there'ssomething inferior about the way
that she speaks.
I of course reassured her that Iwould never criticize how she
speaks.
Um, and that's what linguists,um, don't do.
We will not criticize how peoplespeak.
We are descriptive, notprescriptive.
(14:08):
This means that we describe whatpeople do with language.
Prescriptive would be somethinglike your first grade teacher
who tells you grammar rules,like eight, isn't a word, and
how you can't end a sentencewith a preposition.
A linguist would tell you thatyou can absolutely end a
sentence with a prepositionbecause people do all the time.
And the link would say thateight is definitely a word
(14:29):
because people use it all thetime.
And so actually many of thegrammar rules that we learned
growing up really are arbitrary.
Um, and so much actually aboutlanguages, arbitrary, it's all
just made up.
And then it changes.
Um, at one point in time, peopledid not criticize eight and it
was recognized as a, just likeany other word.
(14:52):
It was a contraction for M not.
And so what I'd like to tellpeople is that, look, if what
you said can be understood, thenyou probably set it correctly.
Um, I'm also going to take thistime to say that if you are a
self proclaimed member of thegrammar police force, I'm going
to ask that you retire somethingabout that feels too close to
(15:14):
white supremacy, but also therules that we follow in language
change and will change.
And we know this becauselinguists document this change
and when it happens and why ithappens and the impacts of those
changes.
And so I hope that this will beyour last day as part of the
gamer police force.
(15:34):
And that tomorrow you can beginto see how we can use language
to liberate ourselves from theseoppressive structures.
Um, and actually like now that Ithink about it, the reason why
being the grammar policeprobably feels like white
supremacy to me is because,well, one people are enforcing
rules for speaking English, atleast in my experiences with the
(15:55):
grammar police, it's alwaysabout English, which is a
colonial language, forced uponour ancestors and so many people
of color throughout the world.
And so it feels like you'redoing the work of the colonizer
when you enforce the language ofrules of the colonizer.
But also the thing that I loveabout language is that it
(16:16):
changes.
That's probably my favoritething, actually, because it
feels like a metaphor for life.
I think that there's so manyparts of society here in the
United States that need tochange like capitalism is trash
point blank period.
At one point in my ancestorswere capital and white people
took out insurance plans on myancestors and counted them as
(16:38):
assets like that's trash sexism,trash transphobia, trash ableism
is trash.
And every day myself and mypeers and people in the movement
are fighting against people whodon't think these systems can
change.
Like there are people who don'tthink we can have a country
without capitalism.
There are people who don't thinkwe can have a country without
(17:00):
racism.
And so for me, the way I'mthinking is like, look, we use
language every day.
Our survival is predicated onour ability to communicate
whether that's through a signlanguage or an oral language.
And so if our survival dependson our ability to share
knowledge and communicate ourneeds, like that's a pretty big
(17:22):
deal.
And so if language is what weuse, I used to do that and have
language changes.
And we're the ones who changedright along with it.
And where are the same ones whomake the change even happen in
the first place, then why can'twe change all these oppressive
systems in society?
Like if the way we talk now,won't be the way that we talk in
(17:44):
50 years.
Then why can't we imagine asociety in 50 years where people
are not against because of theirrace, gender, class, sexual
orientation, and more like, whatI love about linguistics is that
it helps me have an imaginationbecause I know about the
structures of other languagesbesides English.
(18:06):
And I know about the thousandsof ways that humans have chosen
to express themselves throughthe thousands of languages that
exist.
And that have existed that forme to sit here and think that
things have to be a certain wayin society, like that's just
bullshit to me.
Like I know it doesn't have tobe this way in society.
(18:27):
Why?
Because there are people outthere doing different things,
Like period, like that almostfeels like me saying, Oh,
everything has to be done inEnglish.
When I know that that's not thecase, because when I look across
the world, there are people whoare doing things they're living
life with other languages.
(18:47):
And like, there are definitelysimilarities in how a language
might choose to structureitself.
Um, but there are definitelydifferences between languages.
Um, and so for me, it's like, ifsomething as constant in our
life as language changes, and ifit's done differently across the
world, then can then can thecertain systems that we think
(19:11):
are constant in our lives, like,can they change?
Can they be done differently tomake things more fair for
everyone?
And so I hope that one of theways I tried to explain a little
bit about what linguistics isstuck with you, because I'm
excited for what this podcastbrings.
So we can have discussions abouteverything I see on social media
and experience in person fromtalking about what it means to
(19:34):
have manners to how our slangjust dies.
As soon as the mainstream beginsto use it to the way we tell
stories and jokes and how ourgrammar has changed and
continues to change.
But what I hope to discuss andreally encourage is the
multilingual ness of blackpeople everywhere.
Growing up in the U S it's easyto be, okay, not knowing how to
(19:58):
speak multiple languages.
I feel like at least, um,foreign languages are not common
in elementary education, atleast public elementary
education.
And by the time we start tolearn foreign languages in
middle school or high schoolwere either too embarrassed to
make language mistakes maybe, ormaybe we think it's corny, or
(20:19):
maybe we've got to trustteacher, or maybe, you know, we
think that it's easy for us tofind information in English.
So why do we need to speakanother language?
And Lastly, like if the languagethat you're learning at school
is not a language that you'reusing regularly in your daily
life and your community, thenit's going to take some more
(20:39):
effort to actually retain thatlanguage.
However, as a black person whowas stolen from Africa and are
living in the United States, Ifeel like we have been lied to,
we are absolutely multilingual.
We've always been multilingualin and outside of the U S and in
fact, it's not common around theworld to only speak one
(21:03):
language.
And that includes us and ourancestors.
And I'm not just talking aboutour ancestors who speak Gullah
and are from the Gullah Geecheecorridor down in the Carolinas,
Georgia and Florida.
And I'm not just talking aboutour ancestors from Louisiana,
East, Texas, and that region whospeak French or Creole.
(21:24):
I'm talking about all ourancestors who were taken from
Africa and brought here speakingtheir African languages,
speaking multiple Africanlanguages, our ancestors who
were the first to learn Englishand French and Dutch and Spanish
and other languages of thecolonizers.
I'm thinking about ourancestors, where to translate on
(21:45):
plantations and have totranslate between the colonizer
and each other and vice versa.
And what's crazy is while I wasin grad school, the applied
linguistics department wasconnected to the TESOL
department.
TESOL is teaching English tospeakers of other languages.
And if you went to school herein the U S and you might've
heard about an ESL teacher or anELL teacher, they probably have
(22:09):
a TESOL degree.
So while I'm in these classes ingrad school, we're talking about
the best methods to teachlanguage.
And I'm thinking about myancestors and the trauma that it
must have been to learn thelanguage while enduring so much
pain.
I'm thinking about if any of myancestors were language teachers
and what those classrooms looklike.
(22:30):
And so I'm absolutely doing thispodcast and thinking about our
ancestors who fought to rememberour native languages and taught
them to us through songs andgames.
One example that comes to mindis the song Shay Coolay, which
is a children's song that hasits roots in Ghana though, his
song and different places inAfrica.
(22:51):
But many of us learned this songwhile watching Gullah Gullah
Island, which was a children'sTV show on Nick jr.
That celebrated Gullah culturein South Carolina.
Um, or depending on your age,your parents might know this
song from Eugene wild.
And what I think is so beautifulbecause it shows the African
diaspora is that Willie camealong and Hector Lavoe too, of
(23:13):
some of the most prominentSalazar singers from Puerto Rico
and New York city also have aversion of shisha Coolay with
this podcast.
I'm also thinking about ourancestors who kept the names of
foods and dances alive, and ourancestors who still took the
colonizers language and madetheir own thing.
That's exactly what we have donehere with our black English R a
(23:36):
Bionics.
We are absolutely the legacy ofour ancestors who were about
what language.
So I'm excited to talk about thelanguage, sorry, the languages
that are family speak throughoutthe Americas and throughout
generations.
I'm excited to talk about thesimilarities and the
differences.
The similarities are beautifulbecause it shows our connection
(23:59):
and the differences arebeautiful because we are not a
monolith.
I really believe that ourfreedom is tied to people who
look like us in and outside ofthe U S and who speak many
languages.
And I strongly believe that therevolution will be multilingual.
That being said, I'm going towrap this episode up by shout.
I know, mad people.
(24:21):
Um, I want to start with twopeople who have advised me, um,
on this past, on this projectover the past year, and have
also just advise me my personaland professional things going
on.
And as dr.
Sasha Evans and dr.
Sharif King, um, it's wildbecause they both know me since
I was like 17.
And here we are almost 10 yearslater.
(24:43):
Um, I also want to shout out thehost of the enthusiasm podcast,
crusher, McCulloch, and Laura,and gone, who awarded me with a
grant, which definitely helpedto get me started.
And lastly, I want to shout outeveryone who helped contribute
to the intro to the podcast.
Um, it's funny.
So I was saying that I kind ofcome up with a name for the
podcast.
So that's actually how the introcame about.
(25:05):
I was really sad because Iwanted to name my podcast.
Talk to me.
Nice.
I had the idea to name of thepodcast talks to me, nice, like
probably in the shower when Iwas sleeping, but when it came
to me, I was like, this is whatI'm gonna call my podcast,
because I liked that it has theword talk in the title.
Cause you know, we're doinglanguage, but I also like how
(25:26):
talk to me nice is like agreeting.
And so it's like, perfect.
Cause it's like, Hey, like, youknow, like listening to like
talk to me nice da.
But like, but I was mad becausethat was already taken.
And then the other ideas I havefor the podcast that was similar
to talk to me nice where theywere also greetings, those were
taken or there were otherpodcasts with a variation of
(25:47):
what I was thinking.
And so I was like, maybe I canstill include these somehow.
And I thought to have my villagejust send me recordings of them
saying whatever greetings theyuse in their day to day life.
So I put up a call and myvillage definitely answered.
Um, just to mention a few of theplaces where we had people
(26:09):
coming from, we have Chicago,New York, the state and the
city, gotta specify, PanamaPhilly, Memphis, Haiti, Mali,
Jamaica, Guyana, Jersey,Connecticut, Nigeria, Atlanta,
Dominican Republic, Botswana andAlabama.
And to shout everyone out in theorder that they appeared.
(26:29):
We have Charlie Gabby, Jordan C,Winston, Muhammad, Stephanie,
Jordan L, Edwin, Yas, OrinCaryl, Aleem, Shaq, Akan,
Caroline Karshunna, Zakiyah,Sade, Devin, Funmi, Edwin,
Drine, Rob, Stephaun, Christine,Deontae, Ty, Lajas, Asad,
Yashika, Tati, Amber, and Akeem,and the glue that brings the
(26:55):
intro together for the musicproduction is Jordan, who you
can find on Twitter andInstagram as@AgentBlackGuy for
your music production needs.
He's also a real estate agent,but I really wanna thank y'all
from the bottom of my heart forsharing a piece of your culture,
of your company, of your family,with me and with everyone
(27:16):
listening to this podcast.
That being said, I want to thanky'all for rocking out with me
today.
I'll talk to y'all soon, one.
Welcome to first episode of The Black Language
Podcast, where we talk about ourpeople and our language and
where talking black is anythingsaid by a Black person, I'm your
host Anansa.
And just a little bit aboutmyself.
I use she, her pronouns.
I'm from New York, shout out the519 Cap City, shout out El
Barrio, Spanish Harlem,Greeleyville, South Carolina,
(01:30):
and the rest of the WilliamsburgCounty.
I'm in my Robinson Cano yearplus two.
So I'm 26 and I'm a proudRavenclaw.
I'm a Leo sun and moon and Virgorising, get into it.
And I didn't know a thing aboutlinguistics until I was 18 in
college and decided to major init because so many of my
(01:52):
intuitions about linguisticsjust seem to be there.
After I graduated, I worked ineducation in Providence, Rhode
Island for two years.
And then from then I went to getmy master's in applied
linguistics.
Full transparency The currentname of the podcast may or may
not be temporary until I thinkof something better.
(02:13):
I had so many ideas, but theywere already taken.
If you have a better idea, let asista know because I'm
definitely checking for one, butI just knew that if I waited any
longer for the right name tocome along, I didn't know when I
was going to start because I satwith this project for just over
a year.
And it came about as I wasfinishing up grad school.
And I felt like much of what Iwas reading about Black people
(02:36):
and language didn't show ourdiversity and just made it seem
like we were all one thing likeBlack people in LA talk like
Black people in Albany, NewYork.
And I know that that's not thecase.
There are definitelysimilarities between us, but
there's so much about what itmeans to be Black in a
particular region.
Like what does it mean to beBlack in Providence, Rhode
(02:59):
Island or Rochester, New York.
And how is that similar and howis it different?
And what's crazy is actuallyafter grad school, I was in the
process of becoming a linguistwith a security firm and they
wanted a Black linguist, butthey didn't call it that
obviously.
And so I had to take multipletests and the final test was
transcribing a phone call, butthat was odee hard because we
(03:22):
talk differently in differentplaces.
The person on the phone, in theaudio that was recording sounded
like they were from like theArkansas, Missouri kind of area.
Ultimately I passed, but Iplayed the sound file over and
over again because although wehave a shared history and a
shared language, I could barelyunderstand what they were
saying.
(03:43):
Because again, we are not amonolith.
We are not just one thing.
And that firm did not know that,but I didn't end up going
through with the job.
That security firm contracts outto the United States, basically
to the FBI, DEA DHS includingICE and other government
agencies.
(04:03):
And there was no way in hell Iwas going to be surveilling
other Black people and helpingout ICE or those other agencies.
But, I say that to say thatthere are definitely linguists,
Black linguists who are doingthe work to say that we are a
diverse people and to stop usingall of these catch all
definitions of what it means tobe Black or what it means to
(04:25):
talk Black.
And so that was a big motivationbehind this podcast and another,
and another motivation, maybe Ishould stop now and say that I
do have a stutter.
I've been stuttering apparentlysince elementary school, but I
don't remember that.
What I do remember was being inmiddle school and stuttering so
bad.
I used to be like the kid whowould like be leaning my head
(04:46):
forward and blinking my eyes,trying to get sounds out.
But I don't think I'm gonna editthe stutter out.
Like I feel like it would becontradictory for me to have a
podcast about language and thenlike edit out naturally
occurring parts ofcommunication.
But I mean, even that, I feellike it's still ironic because I
am going to edit this.
(05:08):
And this is also not really likea very natural occurrence of
language.
Me just sitting here by myself,recording something by myself as
if I'm actually talking to otherpeople who are in the room.
Anyways, I say that to say thatI stutter, you're probably gonna
hear me stutter.
But back to what I was saying,another motivation behind this
(05:31):
podcast is the fact that so manyof my friends and what I see on
social media already shows methat we talk about language all
the time and we may or may noteven know it.
We're already talking aboutdifferent accents and what words
are popular and what cities andhow new slang emerges.
U m, but ultimately I feel sopassionately about this because
(05:52):
I am a linguist and I love whatI do.
I believe that linguisticsallows us to see life in a new
way.
We can see the rawness, and thebeauty, and complicatedness in
what it means to be human.
And so I'm excited to take thisjourney with y'all, because I
want to make this something thatall Black people can see
themselves in at one point oranother, because I know that
(06:12):
Blackness is not a monolith.
We are not one thing.
And so my goal is to beintentional about holding space
for all Black people.
Because like I said, as far asI'm concerned, Black language or
t alking Black is anything saidby a Black person.
So for today I felt like thefirst thing I should probably do
is just talk a little bit aboutwhat linguistics is and what it
(06:35):
focuses on.
So that way there's a, littlebit of a foundation for what
this becomes.
Um, so when people ask me what alinguist does, I say, I
definitely say somethingdifferent every time, because
truthfully, I don't even alwaysknow how to explain it.
So for me, what I normally do isask what the person asking me
like what their job is or whatsome of their hobbies are and
(06:58):
explain how linguistics plays arole in their day to day.
So like, for example, if youwork in education, there are
definitely linguists who studythe interactions between
teachers and parents andteachers and students.
If you're in business and sales,there are linguists who study
successful sales pitches.
If you're in communications,publishing, journalism,
(07:19):
advertising, marketing, there'sresearch in linguistics that
will back many of the decisionsthat you make in regards to
slogans, product descriptions,headlines.
Um, and definitely if you're inartificial intelligence,
computer science, there arelinguists behind your favorite.
Um, artificial intelligence islike Alexa and Siri I'm.
(07:40):
So I can go on with that, butalso if you have hobbies such as
gaming, there are linguists beststudy gaming language and chat
rooms.
If you're a skater, there arelinguists that study skate
culture.
Um, and so typically when I talkto people about linguistics and
how it relates to their day today, I like to say that I think
anyone can be a linguist becausewhen I talk to people, it feels
(08:03):
like something clicks for them.
And I'm like, that's where youwant to be.
Like, as long as you canrecognize the patterns and how
you speak.
That's all I really feel like Ido as a linguist is just
recognize patterns and speechand ask myself if these patterns
mean anything.
I'm sorry, not just speech also,because now all language is just
spoken, but I really feel like Ijust recognize patterns and
(08:25):
communication and ask myself ifthose patterns mean anything.
But formerly you could probablysay that linguistics is the
scientific study of humanlanguage.
And that ended up itself justsounds confusing, but that's
broken down into differentcategories.
And then those kinds, glories ofcourse have even more
categories, but mainly you havepeople who will study sounds,
(08:47):
and that's not to be confusedwith the alphabet and the
alphabet.
Actually, it doesn't even haveall the sounds that we make.
Um, then there are people whowill study structure and order
similar to like the grammar of alanguage, but not in the same
way that you were taught grammarrules in elementary school.
Then there are people who studymeaning, and then people who
(09:09):
study how we learn language andhow we process language.
And there's, you know, of courseall of those categories break
down into even more categories.
But a few questions thatlinguists might ask themselves
are how do we make sounds andperceive sounds, and how do they
change over time?
In what ways our language issimilar or different from one
(09:31):
another, how are languageslearned?
Why do adults and children learnlanguages differently?
Um, how is it that words carry,meaning?
How do individual words cometogether to form a sentence?
That means something, um, how dolanguage has changed over time?
That's one of my favoritequestions.
Like what did language soundlike a hundred years ago or a
thousand years ago?
(09:51):
And why am I someone talk acertain way and one situation
and talk a different way andanother, and there are so many
more potential questions.
Actually, a big researchquestion that I had when I was
in college was about liturgicallanguages, which are languages
that are used for religiouspurposes.
I always felt connected tostudying African influence
(10:12):
religions that were formedthroughout the Americas, during
slavery, such as[inaudible], whodo and voodoo, and while growing
up and visiting family memberson my mother's side of the
family, you know, I saw elementsof African spirituality and
African spiritual practiceseverywhere.
There was cups of water near thedoor, brooms over doors and
(10:34):
shrines dedicated to Africansaints with adornments and
decorations.
And then when I was in highschool visiting some of my
family down South, my cousinLeandre actually put me onto
this book.
I don't remember what the bookwas, but it was about, um,
Yoruba and the history of blackpeople in America practicing our
African religions.
(10:55):
And then we just got like, youknow, we just launched into the
conversation about how my familyare, you know, descendants of
Africans.
Who'd had these Africanspiritual practices.
And so for me, when I found outthat there was such thing as
liturgical languages, languagesused for religious purposes, I
was curious to know if theliturgical languages in our
(11:17):
African influence religions herein the Americas, if they shared
similarities to the languages ofour West African ancestors, like
key Congo and phone.
And the short answer to thatquestion is yes.
But another way that I can thinkto explain a little bit about
what linguistics is, is byexplaining what it ain't.
Oftentimes, when I tell peoplethat I study linguistics, they
(11:39):
will make two assumptions.
The first is that I knowmultiple languages.
And the second is that I'm acorrect the way they speak.
So first that is a myth thatlinguists speak many languages.
Um, what's funny is when I metmy current partner, we were
texting one night early in therelationship.
And I told them that I studiedapplied linguistics and he asked
me how many languages I speak.
(12:00):
And I almost lost all mypatients.
And it's probably a good thing Ididn't, but that's when I told
myself, this is the last timeI'm answering this question,
because what I ended up doingwas taking a Twitter to subtweet
him.
And he wasn't even following meat the time.
But because like, what I reallywanted to ask was like, how
would that be possible?
Like college is only a fewyears.
Like how many languages do youthink I'm gonna learn in four
(12:21):
years, in two years of gradschool.
Um, but being a linguist doesnot mean that you speak multiple
languages.
If you meet a linguist who doesspeak multiple languages, it's
probably because they come froma family that is multi-lingual
or they come from a place thatis multi-lingual.
There are definitely linguistswho will study one language and
(12:42):
one language family.
So they might be familiar withthe language, but they may not
feel comfortable speaking.
It's still, um, and then youmight meet linguists who speak
multiple languages because asidefrom their studies and
linguistics, they just mightlike to travel or be a worldly
person, or they see the value inspeaking more than one language.
(13:03):
Um, but just to wrap that up,being a linguist does not mean
that you learn languages.
The second myth that I want toaddress is that as a linguist,
I'm going to correct the way youspeak.
I have another story with thisone.
I was on a flight coming backfrom Memphis, and I was sitting
next to this older, wealthywhite woman.
And we spent a lot of the flighttalking and that's how I kind of
(13:23):
got to know that she waswealthy.
Um, but she asked me what I do.
And so I told her that I was agrad student studying applied
linguistics, and her immediateresponse was, Oh my goodness,
you must think, I sound terriblewith this Twain.
And, and, and she did have areally strong, you know, Memphis
accent.
But what I thought was sointeresting is that here I am a
(13:45):
young black woman sitting nextto this person with way more
privileged than me.
And yet she thinks that there'ssomething inferior about the way
that she speaks.
I of course reassured her that Iwould never criticize how she
speaks.
Um, and that's what linguists,um, don't do.
We will not criticize how peoplespeak.
We are descriptive, notprescriptive.
(14:08):
This means that we describe whatpeople do with language.
Prescriptive would be somethinglike your first grade teacher
who tells you grammar rules,like eight, isn't a word, and
how you can't end a sentencewith a preposition.
A linguist would tell you thatyou can absolutely end a
sentence with a prepositionbecause people do all the time.
And the link would say thateight is definitely a word
(14:29):
because people use it all thetime.
And so actually many of thegrammar rules that we learned
growing up really are arbitrary.
Um, and so much actually aboutlanguages, arbitrary, it's all
just made up.
And then it changes.
Um, at one point in time, peopledid not criticize eight and it
was recognized as a, just likeany other word.
(14:52):
It was a contraction for M not.
And so what I'd like to tellpeople is that, look, if what
you said can be understood, thenyou probably set it correctly.
Um, I'm also going to take thistime to say that if you are a
self proclaimed member of thegrammar police force, I'm going
to ask that you retire somethingabout that feels too close to
(15:14):
white supremacy, but also therules that we follow in language
change and will change.
And we know this becauselinguists document this change
and when it happens and why ithappens and the impacts of those
changes.
And so I hope that this will beyour last day as part of the
gamer police force.
(15:34):
And that tomorrow you can beginto see how we can use language
to liberate ourselves from theseoppressive structures.
Um, and actually like now that Ithink about it, the reason why
being the grammar policeprobably feels like white
supremacy to me is because,well, one people are enforcing
rules for speaking English, atleast in my experiences with the
(15:55):
grammar police, it's alwaysabout English, which is a
colonial language, forced uponour ancestors and so many people
of color throughout the world.
And so it feels like you'redoing the work of the colonizer
when you enforce the language ofrules of the colonizer.
But also the thing that I loveabout language is that it
(16:16):
changes.
That's probably my favoritething, actually, because it
feels like a metaphor for life.
I think that there's so manyparts of society here in the
United States that need tochange like capitalism is trash
point blank period.
At one point in my ancestorswere capital and white people
took out insurance plans on myancestors and counted them as
(16:38):
assets like that's trash sexism,trash transphobia, trash ableism
is trash.
And every day myself and mypeers and people in the movement
are fighting against people whodon't think these systems can
change.
Like there are people who don'tthink we can have a country
without capitalism.
There are people who don't thinkwe can have a country without
(17:00):
racism.
And so for me, the way I'mthinking is like, look, we use
language every day.
Our survival is predicated onour ability to communicate
whether that's through a signlanguage or an oral language.
And so if our survival dependson our ability to share
knowledge and communicate ourneeds, like that's a pretty big
(17:22):
deal.
And so if language is what weuse, I used to do that and have
language changes.
And we're the ones who changedright along with it.
And where are the same ones whomake the change even happen in
the first place, then why can'twe change all these oppressive
systems in society?
Like if the way we talk now,won't be the way that we talk in
(17:44):
50 years.
Then why can't we imagine asociety in 50 years where people
are not against because of theirrace, gender, class, sexual
orientation, and more like, whatI love about linguistics is that
it helps me have an imaginationbecause I know about the
structures of other languagesbesides English.
(18:06):
And I know about the thousandsof ways that humans have chosen
to express themselves throughthe thousands of languages that
exist.
And that have existed that forme to sit here and think that
things have to be a certain wayin society, like that's just
bullshit to me.
Like I know it doesn't have tobe this way in society.
(18:27):
Why?
Because there are people outthere doing different things,
Like period, like that almostfeels like me saying, Oh,
everything has to be done inEnglish.
When I know that that's not thecase, because when I look across
the world, there are people whoare doing things they're living
life with other languages.
(18:47):
And like, there are definitelysimilarities in how a language
might choose to structureitself.
Um, but there are definitelydifferences between languages.
Um, and so for me, it's like, ifsomething as constant in our
life as language changes, and ifit's done differently across the
world, then can then can thecertain systems that we think
(19:11):
are constant in our lives, like,can they change?
Can they be done differently tomake things more fair for
everyone?
And so I hope that one of theways I tried to explain a little
bit about what linguistics isstuck with you, because I'm
excited for what this podcastbrings.
So we can have discussions abouteverything I see on social media
and experience in person fromtalking about what it means to
(19:34):
have manners to how our slangjust dies.
As soon as the mainstream beginsto use it to the way we tell
stories and jokes and how ourgrammar has changed and
continues to change.
But what I hope to discuss andreally encourage is the
multilingual ness of blackpeople everywhere.
Growing up in the U S it's easyto be, okay, not knowing how to
(19:58):
speak multiple languages.
I feel like at least, um,foreign languages are not common
in elementary education, atleast public elementary
education.
And by the time we start tolearn foreign languages in
middle school or high schoolwere either too embarrassed to
make language mistakes maybe, ormaybe we think it's corny, or
(20:19):
maybe we've got to trustteacher, or maybe, you know, we
think that it's easy for us tofind information in English.
So why do we need to speakanother language?
And Lastly, like if the languagethat you're learning at school
is not a language that you'reusing regularly in your daily
life and your community, thenit's going to take some more
(20:39):
effort to actually retain thatlanguage.
However, as a black person whowas stolen from Africa and are
living in the United States, Ifeel like we have been lied to,
we are absolutely multilingual.
We've always been multilingualin and outside of the U S and in
fact, it's not common around theworld to only speak one
(21:03):
language.
And that includes us and ourancestors.
And I'm not just talking aboutour ancestors who speak Gullah
and are from the Gullah Geecheecorridor down in the Carolinas,
Georgia and Florida.
And I'm not just talking aboutour ancestors from Louisiana,
East, Texas, and that region whospeak French or Creole.
(21:24):
I'm talking about all ourancestors who were taken from
Africa and brought here speakingtheir African languages,
speaking multiple Africanlanguages, our ancestors who
were the first to learn Englishand French and Dutch and Spanish
and other languages of thecolonizers.
I'm thinking about ourancestors, where to translate on
(21:45):
plantations and have totranslate between the colonizer
and each other and vice versa.
And what's crazy is while I wasin grad school, the applied
linguistics department wasconnected to the TESOL
department.
TESOL is teaching English tospeakers of other languages.
And if you went to school herein the U S and you might've
heard about an ESL teacher or anELL teacher, they probably have
(22:09):
a TESOL degree.
So while I'm in these classes ingrad school, we're talking about
the best methods to teachlanguage.
And I'm thinking about myancestors and the trauma that it
must have been to learn thelanguage while enduring so much
pain.
I'm thinking about if any of myancestors were language teachers
and what those classrooms looklike.
(22:30):
And so I'm absolutely doing thispodcast and thinking about our
ancestors who fought to rememberour native languages and taught
them to us through songs andgames.
One example that comes to mindis the song Shay Coolay, which
is a children's song that hasits roots in Ghana though, his
song and different places inAfrica.
(22:51):
But many of us learned this songwhile watching Gullah Gullah
Island, which was a children'sTV show on Nick jr.
That celebrated Gullah culturein South Carolina.
Um, or depending on your age,your parents might know this
song from Eugene wild.
And what I think is so beautifulbecause it shows the African
diaspora is that Willie camealong and Hector Lavoe too, of
(23:13):
some of the most prominentSalazar singers from Puerto Rico
and New York city also have aversion of shisha Coolay with
this podcast.
I'm also thinking about ourancestors who kept the names of
foods and dances alive, and ourancestors who still took the
colonizers language and madetheir own thing.
That's exactly what we have donehere with our black English R a
(23:36):
Bionics.
We are absolutely the legacy ofour ancestors who were about
what language.
So I'm excited to talk about thelanguage, sorry, the languages
that are family speak throughoutthe Americas and throughout
generations.
I'm excited to talk about thesimilarities and the
differences.
The similarities are beautifulbecause it shows our connection
(23:59):
and the differences arebeautiful because we are not a
monolith.
I really believe that ourfreedom is tied to people who
look like us in and outside ofthe U S and who speak many
languages.
And I strongly believe that therevolution will be multilingual.
That being said, I'm going towrap this episode up by shout.
I know, mad people.
(24:21):
Um, I want to start with twopeople who have advised me, um,
on this past, on this projectover the past year, and have
also just advise me my personaland professional things going
on.
And as dr.
Sasha Evans and dr.
Sharif King, um, it's wildbecause they both know me since
I was like 17.
And here we are almost 10 yearslater.
(24:43):
Um, I also want to shout out thehost of the enthusiasm podcast,
crusher, McCulloch, and Laura,and gone, who awarded me with a
grant, which definitely helpedto get me started.
And lastly, I want to shout outeveryone who helped contribute
to the intro to the podcast.
Um, it's funny.
So I was saying that I kind ofcome up with a name for the
podcast.
So that's actually how the introcame about.
(25:05):
I was really sad because Iwanted to name my podcast.
Talk to me.
Nice.
I had the idea to name of thepodcast talks to me, nice, like
probably in the shower when Iwas sleeping, but when it came
to me, I was like, this is whatI'm gonna call my podcast,
because I liked that it has theword talk in the title.
Cause you know, we're doinglanguage, but I also like how
(25:26):
talk to me nice is like agreeting.
And so it's like, perfect.
Cause it's like, Hey, like, youknow, like listening to like
talk to me nice da.
But like, but I was mad becausethat was already taken.
And then the other ideas I havefor the podcast that was similar
to talk to me nice where theywere also greetings, those were
taken or there were otherpodcasts with a variation of
(25:47):
what I was thinking.
And so I was like, maybe I canstill include these somehow.
And I thought to have my villagejust send me recordings of them
saying whatever greetings theyuse in their day to day life.
So I put up a call and myvillage definitely answered.
Um, just to mention a few of theplaces where we had people
(26:09):
coming from, we have Chicago,New York, the state and the
city, gotta specify, PanamaPhilly, Memphis, Haiti, Mali,
Jamaica, Guyana, Jersey,Connecticut, Nigeria, Atlanta,
Dominican Republic, Botswana andAlabama.
And to shout everyone out in theorder that they appeared.
(26:29):
We have Charlie Gabby, Jordan C,Winston, Muhammad, Stephanie,
Jordan L, Edwin, Yas, OrinCaryl, Aleem, Shaq, Akan,
Caroline Karshunna, Zakiyah,Sade, Devin, Funmi, Edwin,
Drine, Rob, Stephaun, Christine,Deontae, Ty, Lajas, Asad,
Yashika, Tati, Amber, and Akeem,and the glue that brings the
(26:55):
intro together for the musicproduction is Jordan, who you
can find on Twitter andInstagram as@AgentBlackGuy for
your music production needs.
He's also a real estate agent,but I really wanna thank y'all
from the bottom of my heart forsharing a piece of your culture,
of your company, of your family,with me and with everyone
(27:16):
listening to this podcast.
That being said, I want to thanky'all for rocking out with me
today.
I'll talk to y'all soon, one.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.