April 16, 2025 • 56 mins
"If you weren't so damn nice, you'd be successful." These words, spoken to Dom L’Amour years ago, sparked a profound journey of self-discovery that unfolds throughout this intimate conversation with Cleveland Jones.
For artists navigating the music industry, establishing your value doesn't come with a handbook. Cleveland openly shares the moment someone told him he was "like a hoe that people can pimp out" because he didn't recognize his own worth—a brutal assessment that changed how he viewed himself professionally. Dom echoes this experience, recounting his own struggles with industry professionals who sensed his eagerness to please and exploited it.
As Cleveland approaches his fifties, he candidly discusses facing retirement without traditional financial safety nets, a reality many creative professionals encounter. The conversation takes a fascinating turn when they explore the concept of "choosing your pain" rather than simply setting goals—deciding what sacrifices you're willing to make and which boundaries remain non-negotiable. For Dom, no career opportunity justifies sacrificing family relationships; for Cleveland, maintaining his peace of mind has become paramount.
The beauty of this exchange lies in its remarkable vulnerability. Both men acknowledge the unconventional reality of a performer's life—working when others socialize, facing constant rejection, and learning to protect their creative spirits while building sustainable careers. Their shared wisdom offers a masterclass for artists at any stage: true success comes from honoring your craft, knowing your worth, and staying true to personal values.
Whether you're a musician, creative professional, or simply someone navigating your own path to self-value, this conversation provides both practical wisdom and emotional resonance. Subscribe now to join a community exploring the full spectrum of human experience through the lens of Black men speaking their truths.
Opening quote by Stevie wonder
Opening and Closing Theme song: Produced by Dom L'Amour
Transition Music from Mad Chops Vol. 2 by Mad Keys
and
from Piano Soul Vol.1(Loop Pack) by The Modern Producers Team
Featured song : "Domie" Preformed by Dom L'Amour
Cover art by Studio Mania: Custom Art @studiomania99
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My teacher.
She used to jump on me so much.
She looked at me one day andwas like you know, if you
weren't so damn nice, you'd besuccessful.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
That's it, sir.
Can we do this?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I remember her saying that, yeah, and it was good and
it was bad In a sense.
Yes, I understand exactly whatshe's saying, because when you
come into a room and like yousay you have that rookie feel
and everybody's like, oh, hejust wants everyone to be nice
and have fun and you're nervousabout how much money you should
be making and you're like I'lldo it for you for this much,
cause we're cool, like they willtake advantage of you, they
(00:32):
will do everything they can tolow ball you, use you as long as
possible and then throw youaway.
And I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
It's still something I strugglewith.
Same Ladies and gentlemen andanyone else who is here, my name
(01:00):
is Dom Lamour and you arelistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast is DonLamour and you are listening to
the Black man Talking Emotionspodcast.
On today's episode, I spokewith my good friend and Atlanta
vocalist, cleveland Jones, aboutthe music industry, retirement,
self-work and so much more.
I am what I am.
(01:24):
I love me.
I don't mean that egotistically.
I love that God has allowed meto take whatever it was that I
had and to make something out ofit.
Cheers to you and thank you somuch for coming on to the Black
Men Talking Emotions podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's an honor to be here, sir.
Thank you so much for coming onto the Black Men Talking
Emotions podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
It's an honor to be here, sir.
I wanted you here because, likeof course, I admire you.
I admire the things that you do, I love your voice, very vice
versa.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I want you to know that, yeah, thank you, but like
this is not just a give back,you know, but it's true, like I
pay attention to that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I'm proud and say, okay, they're doing it, I can do
this.
I just need to put this work in.
And this year I feel like I'mat a turning point in my career
in Atlanta where people arecalling me.
People are saying, hey, I heardyou can do this.
That's something that it takestime.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's what you want, though.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You want that?
Yes, but it takes time.
It takes so much time ofbuilding trust.
I mean, people could see that Icould do it when I first got
here, but that doesn't mean thatthey would trust me enough to
call me and be like, hey, I knowyou can do it.
It takes time.
They get to the point and theymight not even have me in their
(02:48):
brain.
They might see me after and belike, oh, I need someone to do
this.
I should have called you Like.
That's happened to me so manytimes.
So now to have people be likeI'm calling Dom and Dom is the
one who answers says yep, I'llbe there, that has been very,
very comforting and exciting yes.
I feel like this year I've donea lot more work on myself
(03:11):
internally so that I canpersonally feel the grateful
things, the blessings,understand that what's happening
around me is because of hardwork and not trying to create
another reason why it's happened.
To say it all, I just got lucky.
I'm not.
I'm not doing it anymore.
I've been working my butt offto be where I am and I'm
(03:32):
starting to see the hard workpay off and my wife is starting
to see it and be like oh, yougot this gig Cause you went to
that dude.
You told me you were going todo this and it's working and I'm
like that's the thing that Ialways hope that people can see,
especially people I love thatinvest in me.
I want them to see I'm not justout here lollygagging.
I promise you, when I say I'mgoing to sing an open mic, it's
(03:55):
because I'm shaking hands, I'mmeeting people, I'm creating
relationships.
I'm trying to build somethingso that I can continue to grow
in my career.
Build something so that I cancontinue to grow in my career.
Being in that place has beenreally nice.
I don't think I'm at the end ofthe line at all.
I think I'm nowhere near whereI could be.
But I've really embraced,looking at my scenarios and
(04:16):
trying to analyze what I cancontrol and what I can't control
, and that has been helpful andit's been helping my headspace
keep me clear, and I've beendoing a lot of journaling and
different things to get myselfto that place.
So I pose that question to you.
I see on Instagram you got agig here.
(04:36):
You're doing this and I knowthat you'd be out here moving.
What are some things that youfeel like you're doing?
That's kind of helping youright now.
Continue to stay on track withyour career.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You know what?
That's a really good question.
I'm going to give you a littlebackstory of when it started.
So it started back and this isshort very early 2001s.
I started singing at Apache Cafe, which is no longer but that
kind of got started and peopleheard what I did and started
asking me to do backgroundsspecifically.
So I was like oh yeah, sure,get your feet wet, find out how
(05:07):
this works for you.
And you know it continued tohappen.
A lot of those were definitelyfreebies or the ones that you're
supposed to get paid, andsomebody didn't.
You know they walked out theback door or whatever you know,
or they just simply just didn'tpay you.
So those things did happen, biglessons learned, but it also
taught me a big lesson aboutwhat I felt about myself, how I
(05:27):
really didn't value myself likeI should have.
I'm going to share this.
This lady said to me one timeshe says you don't know how good
you are.
She says you're more like a hoethat people can pimp out.
And to hear someone say that toyou was daunting.
I felt stupid and used and likewow.
Again, I didn't grow up withthis notion that I was amazing
or that I was good or thatpeople really were paying
attention.
I thought that I was just heygetting what you get it and also
(05:48):
a bigger thing is people alwaystelling you that you have to
pay your dues.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yep, I always hear that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
When I hear pay your dues, I'm thinking, okay, that I
got tired of it.
I said you know what?
I'm going to go study atBerklee College of Music and
figure out what's happening.
So I went up there, did my work, finished and then I came back
to Atlanta, for some reasonbelieving that because I did
that.
You know you went to Berklee,so therefore people are going to
like really respect you now.
(06:20):
So you know they already knowDon't come to Cleveland.
Because you know they alreadyknow don't come to Cleveland
because you know he has aBerkeley degree and so you know
that didn't matter.
It didn't matter when peoplethink you're easy and also when
they don't, when they kind ofsense that you don't know your
work you can past.
You know was one of thosethings of me not having value
for myself.
But back to in regards togetting the work and people
coming to you now and you know,asking you versus you having to
(06:42):
ask for it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I stopped.
To be honest, it sounds reallystrange, but I stopped doing the
open mics.
That doesn't sound strangebecause I do it more to keep
myself like on my toes.
I get it, you go in and there'sno practice and I can come in
and I can have a bad night andit's like, okay, how did I
handle that?
And then I can have a great oneand it's like, how did you do
that?
So like I do it strictly formyself.
I don't do it anymore, to mebecause I know that going to
(07:21):
those events sometimes is reallyit's about them.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But the other side of it is that it's definitely good
for the network and, like yousaid before, all that's good.
So there's no hate, no knockingon it, it's just saying that
for me, I had to make a decision.
First of all, I was tired ofthem.
To be honest, I was tired ofthem.
I do like them, but I like togo now.
I like to go and watch andlearn from meet a new singer, or
just listen instead of going tosing, so if I'm in the building
(07:48):
you know, and it doesn't makeme feel like.
I was in a building, so, oh mygosh, you got to sing.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, I never I never feel like that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
ever I never felt like I was honestly that special
.
So, just being really honest,though, I didn't feel that
special that I had to be in thisthing and this was the only way
.
I was going to make it.
I just decided for myself, justto say stop doing what you
don't want to do.
And also the power ofmanifestation.
I started having my what I liketo call my shower prayers.
I tend to get a littlespiritual in the shower and I
(08:16):
just have these moments and Istarted really talking to the
creator, talking to myself,because people say you shouldn't
I do.
So call me crazy, I'll staythat way, it's been helping me
throughout the years.
But primarily, I learned toreally speak over myself.
Speak the things that I wantNow have.
I gotten where I want to get to, yet Not quite, but I'm closer
than I've ever been and, if youthink about it, each day is a
closer day, no matter how youlook at it.
(08:37):
Even when it seems likeeverything's dead, nobody's
paying attention.
And also stop waiting forsomeone to discover you.
That was one of the things thatI did back in the day I never
forget.
I released a single back in2011 and I got a call from this
guy who was known for helpingpeople out, you know, getting
their career started from London.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And so when I got that call, I was like oh my God,
I remember I actually kind ofcried.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
No, I cried, I cried.
It was like oh my God, is thisbecause somebody's finally
hearing me?
And I remember saying that tohim Like wow somebody finally
hears me, somebody finally blah,blah, blah, and that also has
kind of set me up.
That showed my rookie side.
Of course, and it really showedthat okay, if I want to
manipulate this guy, I kind ofcan if I want to.
I felt manipulated in thatsituation.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And I eventually even signed a contract with him and
some people and I had to get outof it, so it wasn't working for
me.
But again, that was about menot having value of what I had.
So what I'm saying is pleasecontinue to do all those things.
I think what you're doing isvery smart.
As far as open mics, networking, being seen showing your face,
I'm not here to give you advice.
I'm just saying I think theseare great things.
Like you said, it works for you.
And again, I did this already,so I didn't walk out.
(09:46):
Somebody said, oh God, clevewas amazing, let's hire him.
It wasn't like that, it was.
Somebody saw me someplace andagain I was doing a show,
actually with ATL Collective.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I was in a Stevie Wonder show From that night,
back in, I think, 2015,.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've been with the same band now for almost eight
years.
Who saw me that night?
That's nice and I've not beenwith them for eight years.
So it works is what I'm saying.
It works.
Everything has its topsy turvymoments, but overall, if I'm
able to stick with you now goinginto eight years almost, nine
years, I guess, that's a goodsign that it's not so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I got two things.
I'll jump on with that.
Sure, going back to the whole,I feel like you're a whole quote
.
That's incredible.
The quote that I got that wassimilar to that in the sense of
it made me feel like, okay, Iguess.
But my teacher, she used tojump on me so much.
She looked at me one day andwas like if you weren't so damn
nice, you'd be successful.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's it, sir.
Can we do this?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I remember her saying that and it was good and it was
bad in a sense.
Yes, I understand exactly whatshe's saying, cause when you
come into a room and and, likeyou said, you have that rookie
feel and everybody's like, oh,he just wants everyone to be
nice and have fun, and you'renervous about how much money you
should be making and you'relike, oh, I'll do it for you for
this much, cause we're cool,like they will take advantage of
you, they will do everythingthey can to lowball you, yes,
(11:08):
use you as long as possibleAbsolutely, and then throw you
away Absolutely.
And I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
It's still something I strugglewith.
Same, I still struggle with theidea of being an asshole or
businessman.
I don't want to cut anyone'slegs off when doing this stuff.
(11:28):
I love to do my type of show.
I like people to come in andfeel like they can escape this
bullshit of a world that we livein, and then they can go home
and be like.
You know what made me feel goodtoday?
That guy's smile, that guy'sknowledge of the music, that
little story he told about theone song just really touched me
and I really enjoyed that.
(11:50):
That's all I want for people tofeel and it's hard for me to be
a mean person or direct.
I've always struggled with that, but that's something that
stayed with me.
And another thing I wanted tojump on, because you said you
had the moment of feelingmanipulated and used.
I had the same realization aswell, where I stopped
(12:11):
auditioning for like TV showsbecause of for this, like you
stopped doing the open mics.
For that one I stopped.
This guy would always call mefrom LA that he met me singing
once and I remember the firsttime he called me he really sold
the story great and he was likeI saw you and I feel like you
(12:33):
are going to fit perfectly.
And I was like he saw me.
I can't believe he would takethe time to call me and give me
an opportunity and look out forme.
And he had me audition forAmerican Idol the first time,
nice and then.
But during the American Idolaudition the guy playing piano
for like the trials was the guywho usually does piano for me in
(12:55):
LA.
He was one of my guys.
So like I saw him and he waslike what are you doing here?
And that was another moment ofunderstanding, like.
He looks at me like I'm aprofessional already.
He's like you're, you're not anamateur.
Why are you?
This isn't.
This is for people who, like,are willing to put in the work.
You're putting work in already.
Why are you here?
(13:15):
Why am I doing something thathe doesn't respect?
And that was interesting, thatthat was how that experience
went.
But years go on and you wantmore opportunity and people
aren't calling.
And this guy calls up like hey,I got another show that I think
you'd be great on, and it's theBeat the Shazam show.
Yeah, and I'm like OK, let's,let's do this audition.
(13:38):
And I go through the processand I feel little and I'm told
that I'm in the last bunch andthen I don't get it.
Then he calls me back and he'slike okay, you weren't a good
fit for that one, but we'regoing to call keep you in our
Rolodex for next year.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Is he an agent or just is he an agent he?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
is yeah, but he's not my agent.
He's just someone who knew meand got my information because I
gave him my card and so hecalled me for another show and
then he called me for anothershow, and then he called me for
a third show and after the thirdtime doing it, I got to saying
what am I getting out of this?
What do I want from this?
As a performer?
(14:13):
I want to perform and I want tomake money and I want to live
off of my art.
And I'm doing that when Iproduce my shows.
I'm doing that when I go andperform with the wedding band.
I'm doing that already.
Why do I feel like I have tokeep doing this?
What is this adding to mycareer?
And it wasn't adding anything.
It was just making me feel badabout myself.
(14:33):
It was making me feel like Iwas chasing a lottery, like I'm
going to win a million dollarsif I play on this game, and that
isn't something to play with.
In my head, in my head, moneylike even $100,000, that's not
something I want to gamble with.
I want to work for it and getit.
And this idea of doing theseshows and taking me in the big
(14:55):
thing that really turned me offwas I'm an actual wedding singer
, I'm a performer, I'm someonewho do this for a living.
And the guy kept telling me youknow, we would really like it
if you didn't say you were awedding singer.
You said that you sing on theside because that sells to
people.
You want them to feel likeyou're just an ordinary guy.
I was like but I'm not anordinary guy, I'm a singer.
(15:16):
This is what I do.
And so those moments, those twomoments, really helped me wake
up and understand that I have toevaluate the type of life that
I live, because it's not likeother people's lives.
I don't do the same thing otherpeople do.
I'm becoming a morning person,which is something I've always
(15:37):
wanted to do.
But I'm going to go to this showtonight that my friend is doing
and the show ends at twoo'clock.
I'm not going to stay till twoo'clock, but that's how long the
show goes.
And if I was getting paidtonight to go perform in this
show, I would be up till twoo'clock and it would be normal,
because that's what happens inour line of work.
I had another friend hey, Iwant you to come see a concert.
(15:59):
I was like I got rehearsal.
That's what happens when I'mrehearsing and performing.
It's usually when other peopleare off work and they're about
to have dinner and they're like,okay, great, let's do things.
And I can't do things withnormal people.
Usually Saturdays aren'tSaturday for me, it's Monday,
that's my.
(16:19):
Saturday yes, yes.
I know it in.
Yes, so it's.
It's always this balance ofreminding yourself.
So a friend the other day toldme that she has to remind
herself of her purpose when itcomes to her craft.
And I think that is somethingthat I'm starting to embrace a
(16:41):
lot more, because I do somethingthat is very weird.
And I say weird specificallybecause the life of a singer is
not normal.
It is weird.
We do weird things.
We get in front of people andwe beg for their attention for
an hour.
I know that's not what it isand I know sometimes you don't
(17:03):
even have to see it that way,but in a way that's what we do.
And you come home and yourehearse and I'm singing to
myself in the basement and I'mclunking in a piano and I'm like
if you didn't know who I wasand what I did and you walk past
my house, you'd be like theweirdo in there doing it.
That's my life and I'm okaywith that and I know that's what
(17:24):
it is.
So I want to continue to keepthe light shining in my head for
it, because I never want to seethat candle go out, where I
wake up one day and I'm justlike you know where I still can
do it, I still have the gift, Istill believe in myself as a
(17:52):
singer, that I'm good enough,but then I'm like I just don't
enjoy this anymore.
I don't, I could never do that,and I feel like I have to make
the extra effort to work onmyself to make sure that I know
exactly why I'm doing what I doand why I'm happy doing what I
do.
You know those things.
I feel like everybody has thosekind of stories where someone
(18:14):
said something off the cuff orthey had to start letting things
go, and I feel like this yearI've noticed more and I've
spoken about more the thingsI've had to let go to continue
to do what I do and be in a goodheadspace.
What are some things that youcan think of off the top of the
head that you like Other thanopen mics?
(18:35):
You're like I stopped doingthis because this wasn't helping
me, this wasn't puttinganything extra into my craft.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I love your fervency to continue, no matter what,
like you said, how emotionallyit would get you to think about
you not actually doing yourcraft or that you gave up on
something.
And my story is a littledifferent.
I definitely was all in andI'll give it about almost three
years ago.
I definitely had a give upmoment and when I did do that, I
was around February 2022.
I remember having this momentof saying why do you keep trying
(19:06):
?
That doesn't mean stop singing,and I want to ask you this,
actually and I hate this termstar, but is that your goal?
Is your goal to be thesuperstar, or what that is Like,
well-known throughout theentire world?
You know what I'm getting to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
No, I know what you mean, I read a book, and I
always do this when I have toanswer a question.
I read a book and one of thethings that stuck with me is
they said stop making goals.
Choose the pain that you'rewilling to go through to achieve
what you want to.
And so, instead of looking at itlike, oh, this is my goal, I'm
(19:46):
willing to do this, this, this,this and that, and so whatever
I'm willing to do, when you say,star, I don't know what I'm
willing to give up, to be Like,if you told me I had to stop
talking to my family, am Iwilling to do?
No, I love my family too much,so there's stuff that I don't
think I'm willing to give up.
If I went that high, if I gotthere, great, that's dope,
(20:06):
because that means I'm providedfor my family, but that's all
that really matters to me is, ifmy family taken care of, is my
wife taken care of?
Am I getting those moments thatI want in life?
I know that my life is different, and I do miss a lot of
cookouts.
I do miss a lot of parties.
I do miss a lot of nights atthe bar, because I'm singing at
weddings in Mississippi, or I'msinging in Nantucket, or I'm
(20:29):
performing in Nashville.
I'm constantly traveling andsinging.
I know that.
But if I don't have anything todo that night and I have a plan
with my wife and then someonecalls me and I really want to be
with my wife, I'll choose mywife before I do that, and
that's the pain that I'm willingto choose.
I'm willing to miss out onopportunities for it.
So to be a star like in my headI just I hear so many negative
(20:54):
things Like when you're a star,you lose your privacy.
When you're a star, you have to.
You know you have to smile whenyou don't want to smile.
You know that's one of myfavorite Usher songs.
Usher songs.
Sometimes I got a smile.
When I don't feel like smiling,sit back and ride when I feel
like driving.
I think about that and I'm likethat is something that I love.
(21:16):
To go for a long drive, I loveto be the person behind the
wheel.
I love to be able to reallyshow my emotion.
If I'm upset, I don't want topretend like I'm not.
I'm going to let you know I'mmad and that's something I'm not
willing to give up.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I love that and that part speaks volumes about I
think, that that says you'regoing to go even further than
you probably even see, andthat's because you're not
willing to risk whatever fameand fortune that could be for
the sake of getting the fame andfortune and dismissing all the
things you really love.
I love that you would chooseyour wife and say I'm sticking
to this plan because this isimportant to me, this is right,
or that situation, and I'm notgoing to not, you know, spend
(21:53):
this time with her just becausesome quick money just pop up.
Well, the position that I'm in,if quick money pop up, I'm like
go ahead and make that quickmoney Because- it seems to be
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Here's a great example.
Again my position though I getwhat you're saying.
Sometimes, like we had a gig, Ibooked a jam session because I
host a jam session now.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh good.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I booked it on the day we were supposed to go
see Leslie Odom me and my wife.
And I really wanted to go onthat.
But in my head I'm like Ireally want to do this jam
session because this issomething where I'm building it
from the ground myself.
I'm creating this myself andthis is a foundational thing
that I want to be a part of.
(22:35):
So that moment I chose doingthat over going out with my wife
, and my wife got to take one ofher good friends and had a
bonding night with her that shewouldn't have normally had if I
would have been there.
So it worked out for myself.
But, like in that scenario, Iwas willing to sacrifice that
moment for something that Ididn't make money on and that's
(22:58):
why I'm saying that like I woulddo it, especially if it means
I'm doing something that I knowwill benefit my career, and I
want to be better in certainscenarios.
But there's two things thatchoose your pain instead of your
goals really stuck out to me.
But then also setting targets,and the idea is, instead of
(23:21):
building goals you don't want todo that because a goal, you do
it and you're done you want toset a target because the goal
with a target is to shootthrough that.
So, choosing your pain,understanding exactly what you
got to go through to do this andthen shooting for a target.
Those are the things that Ivisualize and try to do.
I feel like I'm a realisticperson.
(23:41):
I've never sat down andfantasized about goofy stuff.
If I were to have a baby, I'mnot the person sitting there
like I'm just.
It's just look how cute thisbaby is.
I am thinking about the painthat I'm going to have to go
through.
What do I?
I'm going to have to wake upevery night.
I have to wake up this.
I have to deal with throw up.
I don't like picking up poopfor my dog.
I would hate cleaning poop offof a baby, but that's something
(24:04):
that I would be willing to do tobe a father.
So it's like what are the thingsI'm looking at, all of the
things that I'm willing to do,instead of being like the goal
is just to have a baby?
It's like that can't be yourgoal.
That isn't something you shouldshoot for, you know.
And so I, like I said, I justthink I try my best to analyze
(24:25):
things realistically and when itcomes to being a star, I mean,
there's so many valuables thatgo into doing that, like just
doing my album now.
I think about how difficult itis that I want to get a full
band in the studio and the firstalbum I did, I did that.
I had a full band in the studioand I talked to my engineer the
(24:46):
other day for my first albumand he was like you know what I
really liked about that projectwe did and I'm like, okay, my
first album was 10 years agothis year.
And he was like my favoritething was, thank you that we all
played it live in the studioand I was like what do you mean?
He was like, yeah, people don'tusually do that and I'm like,
(25:10):
wow, in my head I thought thatwas normal, I thought that was
how it was supposed to be, butthey're like that's unnatural.
And it's unnatural because itcosts a lot of money.
It's hard to get people on aschedule.
At the same time, it's hard toconvince people to see the
vision that you're creating.
But I'm willing to really trybecause that's how I want it to
(25:32):
be done.
I don't want people to be likeman, I wouldn't even know that
this is all computer generated.
No, I want them to be like whatthat's live.
I'm like, yeah, that's live,that's not computer generated.
And it's going to be hard formoney.
It's going to be hard forexposure Because, like you said,
that star element you thinkabout this discovery thing.
(25:54):
Someone's going to hear it andthey're going to blow it up.
Or this influencer is going topost it and it's going to blow
up.
And it's like the reality ofthat is people who have huge
marketing campaign with moneybacking it get put in front of
more people, absolutely.
So I'm going to put this albumtogether and then I have to find
a way to raise money, put moneytogether, make money, earn
(26:18):
money to push the project outthere and hope that people see
it when I push it out there,like that's what I have to do.
It's not a matter of me doingthis, thinking maybe something
like I did that on my firstalbum.
I'll fully admit that when Iwas younger I put that album out
thinking, okay, this is goingto be like my demo when I go to
LA.
People will hear it and they'lllove it and this and this and
(26:39):
this and that.
But I didn't have enough moneyto market it, so no one heard it
for real, except for my corepeople.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
And in 2015,.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
People heard more stuff Like I'll put something on
YouTube and I'll get like 3000views on YouTube.
Back then Now I do that samething, I'll get like 200 views.
You know, it's a differentworld and it's hard to sit down
as someone who has done their10,000 hours, as someone who is
truly wanted to get themselvesto a level where they're
(27:10):
confident in saying I'm aprofessional and I know.
Wherever room I go and perform,people will look at me and be
like, oh, he's a littledifferent than everyone else,
cause he's an actualprofessional.
I want that I've always workedfor that and so to be in that
position now and understand thatit's hard for me to sit down
and be like well, you know, I'mstill just doing it for the
music and this and that.
No, when I put this stufftogether, I'm trying to build a
(27:32):
career, I'm trying to build aliving for my life.
I want to make sure that I cango, travel and see these places.
I want to be able to do all ofthis.
I want to save money.
You know, I want to do all ofthat.
(27:53):
Cleveland and I met throughsocial media, of course, in a
way, but in person it was kindof out of nowhere.
I went to this Nat King Coleshow they were doing for a
candlelight series here inAtlanta and, of course, if I see
Nat King Cole, I got to go.
That's my guy, so I was curiousto see what music the artist
would play for that gig and howwould they approach the
storytelling and and what wouldthey do, because you know a lot
(28:13):
of people focus on his Christmascatalog and don't really know
that this dude was, you know,one of the best.
So we checked out the Mack andCole show.
Adrian and and I went togetherand of course, cleveland was
singing the tunes and I got tosee this person that I only saw
online in person, do their work,really create something
(28:37):
beautiful, and his voice isbutter.
It's crazy how I feel likethere's certain artists who
don't have to push too much tocreate incredible sound, if that
makes sense.
Like he just could open hismouth and didn't have to take a
deep breath, or it was justincredible to see him working.
(28:57):
He played a lot of my favoritesongs and that was a great place
for us to get to actually builda relationship from, because I
could see that he had commoninterests in the music that I
loved and he was out herepushing some great stuff to the
public, and ever since thenwe've kept in touch and we've
(29:18):
looked out for each other andthat's always encouraging.
So I truly appreciate Clevelandtaking the time to come hang out
with us here at the Black MenTalking Emotions podcast and,
honestly, go look up ClevelandJones.
He's just an incrediblevocalist who deserves to be
(29:38):
heard by everyone.
I know that he said that it'sone of those things that you
know it happens when it happens,but if I can help in any way, I
will, and y'all need to golisten to Cleveland.
So once again, thank you toCleveland for being on the show.
I hope you're enjoying all ofthe stuff that this guy is
saying.
I really enjoy the way hethinks and the way he pursues
his life, so cheers to Cleveland.
Moving towards retirement,trying to find a way to create a
(30:04):
life after this, do you seeyourself as an old man singing
at the bar still?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I honestly don't.
I do not.
I see myself traveling to allthe great places I've always
wanted to go.
That I'm starting to do now.
Turning 50 last year was athing for me, and it was
daunting because I realized Ihad nothing to stand on.
I had no guidance in regards tothe future as far as retirement
.
I was thinking like, wow, thepoint is never hoping that it
does, of course, that if thevoice decides it doesn't want to
(30:32):
do what it used to do or whatyou thought it would do and it's
no longer, what are youstanding on?
What do?
You do Do you go find a nine tofive.
Are you too old to go find it?
What are you doing to moveforward with your life and
making sure that you're stillfine?
And I know people say it's notabout the finances, but we do
need money to move.
Period, so I'm not going to sithere in front like I don't need
it and that I don't want it.
I do.
I want to do better.
(30:52):
So I'm finding other avenues tofigure it out, and not
musically, because I don't thinkmy future will be based on as
far as my financial future willbe based on music at all.
If it does, that'd be awonderful surprise.
I just don't at all.
I personally feel veryoverlooked a lot because it's
like you put out so much.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And when I say overlook, it's not like I'm
looking for people to say, oh mygosh my name is Cleaving.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Have you not seen me?
I can really sing.
That's not what I'm saying,it's just like when you think
about the time and energy thatyou've placed in and what it is
is hearing from so many peopleabout.
This is your season.
This is your time.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Oh my gosh, and that season hasn't happened.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Or maybe they're these little mini seasons.
I don't know, maybe it was amoment where you made people
happy with what you put out,that you gave out.
And maybe that was a season forthem to feel that way about you,
but not necessarily your season, and I'm thinking I've learned
to calm that down within myself.
So that's why I was asking youabout the whole star thing,
because I no longer push myselfinto the space and feel like I
(31:47):
got to be seen, I got to be theartist.
I got it.
Well, I am the artist, but Ihave to be the star.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Like you know, I should be signed with a major
label.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And why am I not?
And you know, you hear frommany people why are you not with
a major label?
I don't understand how come theworld has not heard your voice.
Well, some kind of way, a goodbit heard me, but it still
doesn't constitute money.
A Grammy doesn't constituteriches.
So, everybody's all stuck onthat stuff and I'm not because
I'm thinking, well, it would benice I'm not crying if I don't
(32:15):
get one Again.
I will accept it if I get it,just to be clear.
But it's just something aboutit that says if it doesn't, then
it doesn't.
But I will work towards givingmy best, not working towards a
Grammy award winning project,because there's some things that
won Grammys.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I don't think should happen.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
But that's just a personal opinion.
So you know it's a matter ofthat.
But my focus is really makingsure that my health is good, you
know, like if your health isyour wealth for real, like I'm
making sure all these things arealigned.
It's just with being verytransparent these things are
aligned.
It's just being very transparent.
I went to the doctor's officebecause I had a pain in my side
and I'm thinking, okay, is thisa sciatic nerve or something's
happening?
And as soon as I get there,they never even got a chance to
(32:56):
check out what I was askingabout.
When I got there, they put thelittle heart monitor thing on my
finger and my heart was racing.
I could feel it but, I, didn'tknow it was all that deep.
And she said do you know thatyou could potentially be
threatening a heart attack?
I'm thinking excuse me, like Ijust literally came here just to
see what's going on with myside man.
And then it turned intosomething.
What I'm getting at is that lifeis really short, not saying I
(33:19):
plan to live a long time.
Right, plan to live a long time, hopefully we'll live a long
time, but I want to live thehappiest health of time.
But I want to live the happiest, healthiest life I can.
And so, yes, the artistic sideof me will always be, because I
was born an artist.
That part of me will be.
I think my personality, myenergy exudes that anyway to
some degree.
I sometimes people think I'm alittle mysterious.
I'm pretty much plain.
Plain.
I think I'm very regular, but alot of people don't think I'm
(33:42):
regular.
And no, I am not out in a lotof places to say make friends, I
like people and then I don't atthe same time.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You know I like my privacy.
I'm a little more introverted,even though we do a lot of
extroverted work.
So you know it automaticallylooks like you're a people
person and I love, when it'sover, to go back into my little
cubby hole and chill and go cozyand that's fine.
All that to say.
I've learned to believe inmyself.
I've learned to say you arevaluable and I'm telling you
that you are valued because I'veheard your work.
Thank you, sir.
(34:11):
Thank you and it is good workand I love and I'm going to
speak on this.
There was a song that you haveto your family.
I think you were talking abouthow Dami yeah yeah yeah.
It's very sweet, I know that'syour how.
You know.
It was very endearing to hearyou know, especially related to
family and what you said earlierabout how you are not willing
(34:32):
to not talk to your family or,you know, excommunicate your
family for the sake of stardom.
I think that's a beautiful thingthat you know.
Some things just are off thetable, and that's really good.
And that's about integrity,ethics and how you feel about
you and your real passion forpeople and the passion for
people that you really love.
I'm the same way, very much thesame way, but what I believe is
that the power of manifestationI do believe what you're
(34:53):
speaking to, existence can beand will come to pass.
That's one of my biggestfocuses, like when we spoke
earlier about the manipulationof people saying one thing and
then you kind of feel likeyou've been dragged a little bit
.
Then you ask yourself and thisis what I'm going back to.
We allow it.
I love the part of us that'sstill willing to find out even
if this seems like a repeatedthing, because it could be the
(35:14):
day that it does happen.
I love that willingness that wedo put out as artists, as
humans, to let it happen.
But at the same time I do feelthat if your gut is saying this
is interesting or somethingshould stop here, or I should
stop here, trust that thing andstop and have the power of
saying no.
I think that's one of thebiggest things that nice guys
have issues with.
I call my.
I would say to my friends Isaid I have a good boy syndrome.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I just you know, I want to make everybody happy,
Are you?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
okay, is everything all right.
And even if I'm sufferingmyself and it's always a
surprise for me, just as anothertransparent moment, so very
surprising for me when someoneactually offered to help me or
do something kind for me I'mjust accustomed to being the
kind one and doing stuff forpeople, so when somebody
actually takes a moment and lookout for me or just thought of
me, man, that almost makes mecry.
(35:58):
Yeah, I'm not used to it andthat's what a lot of people
don't know.
So I'm always the giver.
I'm a huge giver and sometimesI give too much, and I will say
that I want everybody to behappy, even when I'm not how can
I fix it?
I'm a fixer, and that's not oneof my most positive things.
It's a beautiful thing, butit's also it could take me down,
it could depress me, it couldtake me through a lot of dark
(36:19):
places that I don't want to bein.
So but I've learned to say okay, take a deep breath and if this
is not for you, be okay torelease it.
And that's still not as easy,but I still.
I try my best to change that.
The older I get, how do I valuemyself?
How do I speak money?
But I don't like to talk moneywhen I'm doing a service for
someone.
I don't want to get the lowestthat you can give me when you
(36:40):
could have given me better.
But I am the one holding myselfresponsible for not speaking of
my value or what I want fromthis thing.
And so when you do get penniesof it, you get upset.
Well, cleveland, that's yourfault, because you accepted it
and you also did the work.
If you sent me a demo, you say,hey, cleveland, why don't you
do this demo for me?
And you know we'll talk aboutthe money later and I'll get
excited because I'm now about todo a project my Innocence with
(37:01):
music.
Right, it's hurtful to my heart.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
But it's also my fault.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's your fault.
Yeah, exactly, because if youdidn't initiate, okay, we should
talk money now and that.
But it's society Like it sucks.
Saying that it's your faultbecause it is, but technically
in this society I mean everyplace I've worked they say don't
speak about your wages to otherpeople.
And the only reason why that isthe thing is because they're
(37:43):
low balling people.
And so you get a position whereyou know, in some scenarios it
isn't okay to talk about yourwage because people will
especially if you're givingsomeone a good deal it'll come
back and bite you.
You know, oh, you gave thisdude this deal, why not me?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And it's like and at that moment, this is what I'm
learning to say.
Well, my price did change, andthat was a moment back then.
And my whole thing is alsobeing okay with accepting that
this person doesn't want to workwith you because you cost too
much.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Okay, yeah, and that's totally fine yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Find the next person, and that's totally being okay
with that.
Now, of course, sometimes wecould be in dire need,
specifically with our line ofwork.
Now, unless you make it somebuku cash, you know singing
doing what you're doing, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I mean I'm grateful to be having been 13 years as a
solo music artist and being ableto survive in Atlanta, slash,
boston.
It has been a very trying butbeautiful time and season for me
in my life.
Again, I didn't think aboutretirement then.
I didn't think about the future, of what could or could not
(38:41):
happen.
And if something does happensay ie cannot sing or things are
canceled, how do you stillfunction, how do you still keep
moving financially in your life?
So I'm just trying to findthose smarter things for myself.
Right now I do want to sing atleisure if I so choose, and then
just say oh, but I'm in.
Central Pay right now.
I'll talk to you later.
Oh, fight, so choose and thenjust oh, but I'm in central pay
right now.
I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I'm just gonna go to costa rica for a second, because
I can but not realizing that itall, that magic and power, has
been sitting in my hands theentire time that's incredible to
be in a place where you can seeit, because I, like I said, I
feel like I'm there too, whereI'm, my wife and I'm going to
italy this year yes we'refinding ways to see different
parts of the world.
We plan ahead.
(39:17):
People were like, oh, you gotthis, and I'm like it's not that
we got a lot of money, it'sthat we planned this two years
ago.
This isn't something we'redoing now.
We've been saving and we'vebeen very much taking care of
our finances properly, somethingthat I always dreamed of when I
was younger, which is a weirdthing to dream of as a kid,
because I'm like this weirdo.
(39:38):
I was there.
I keep on saying that, but inthe theater department that I
went to, they were very negativeto us and very upfront about
you're going to be broke somedayas a performer.
It's not easy, and they madesure that we heard that you're
never going to have a 401k Likethey made sure to say that to us
(39:58):
unless you make the effort tosave your money or do this.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
You have to create it .
You got to create everything.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
And so for me in college I remember hearing that
and be like, oh, whatever.
And then I remember I startedworking at, I think, Magianos.
That was the first time I evergot a 401k.
They were putting parts of mycheck into this 401k.
I'm like, huh, so I'm going tohave money because of this
restaurant.
It's not going to be a lot ofmoney, but I guess I should just
(40:28):
keep working here.
I should keep doing this,because I can't have this
without this restaurant, can I?
I stopped working there.
I was like, yeah, I don't needthat 401k from now.
I'm not going to work there forthat specifically.
That's not enough.
I want to be happy, I want tobe doing what I'm doing and I've
finally gotten myself.
The pandemic helped me.
I got paid the most money I evergot paid during the pandemic
(40:49):
through unemployment, because inCalifornia they had a very,
very incredible unemploymentboost during the COVID.
So I was able to pay off debtsand I was able to start a
savings account, something thatI've always dreamed of doing,
and people always say theeasiest way to do a savings
account is have them take themoney out.
You don't see it and it'shappening constantly and you
(41:13):
turn around and you realize yougot this much money saved and
that's the best way to do it,and I used to put money as a
bartender, as a server, asalways doing something customer
service I used to have likedollars in like a shoe box under
my bed and that was how I wouldsave money.
But this has been so much morebeneficial, of course, because I
(41:34):
can't, you know, grab thisshoebox and spend all that money
, and it's been something that'sopened my eyes to just how I
could have been doing thisbefore, but I wasn't
prioritizing this kind of stuff,I wasn't thinking about my
future, because I'm young, I'mtrying to live now I'm broke.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, A lot of times the prioritizing is about
knowledge, right?
Yeah, a lot of times theprioritizing is about knowledge.
Right, yeah, A lot of times wewere not.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I don't know about your situation, but I was never
taught anything about how tosave or keep or do whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And so now here I am, 50 years old, like, oh my gosh,
wait a minute, wait, wait asecond, I'll be 60 in 10 years.
What do you really have to leanon?
Suppose you're not sayingwhatever it is like, what are
you doing that has you know?
And whatever it is like, whatare you doing that has you know?
So what I will say for eitherof us is that the timing is
always right.
Even when it seems too late.
The knowledge of knowing andknowing what to do when you do
(42:23):
get the knowledge is whatmatters most.
So if you're moving, forwardnow and luckily you started with
my Maggiano's and what you'vebeen saving.
You know I started saving.
I was like, oh, you know, buthere's.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
But then here's my other mentality, that I took
that I'm not the most positivething I would say well, you know
we're going to die anyway,we're going to die anyway.
It's like what I mean it's likeyou know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You don't know the day, not the hour.
Blah, you know, we're toldagain learning about America and
credit too that America is likeone of the only places that
deals with credit like that.
It's kind of daunting becauseyou know you probably go to the
(43:05):
next country and be able to geta house a little bit easier than
you could get it here.
It's a lot of, you know, redtape, red tape, red tape, red
lining, all that stuff here thata lot of us are, you know,
having to deal with,particularly if you're brown
people, black or brown orwhatever.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It's just a little bit difficult, more difficult.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
All that to say, I'm still not allowing that
knowledge to curtail me fromgetting where I need to get to
Like just because you heardabout this, just because someone
told you no, or just becausesomeone tried to, you know,
belittle you for whatever reason, it doesn't say that that's who
you are and that's where you'regoing to go Like it really has
more so the power of how youvalue you, your personal power.
Are you using it?
(43:35):
Are you using it against you,or are you not aware of it?
And so that's where I am nowSaying okay, you want to
complain and it's okay tocomplain.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I believe in complaining.
So people can say I'm countrySouthern South Carolina and
we'll say we ain't nothing tocomplain about, but that's
bullshit to me.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Excuse my language.
Very much so, because I'mthinking this is how I feel
today and I'd rather get it outinstead of letting it fester
Later on down the line.
It comes up as an ulcer orwhatever.
Say what you got to say and ifit's not serving you, let it be.
But if you need and you feellike it's something that needs
to be spoken from the heart, atleast hopefully you're coming
(44:09):
from a real honest place andhopefully a loving space speak
your heart.
I'm glad that I'm learning,because there was a point where
I knew nothing and I was justthinking okay, I got a gig
tomorrow.
Oh, the gig got canceled.
Then what am I going to do?
And now I'm more like okay, doyou have something sitting to
the side?
If nothing else, it's yourfault if it's not sitting to the
side.
So I always remember that.
(44:37):
What was my part in this thingthat didn't go so well?
And also what did go well, andthat's another thing too.
We love to talk about thedownside of things so much, but
what about the happy stuff thatis happening?
What about the fact that youcreated your own open mic or
whatever?
You're innovative, you startedsomething and people are coming
and seeing and it's moving.
I don't care how big, small,whatever it is, it's moving.
Because a lot of times you walkin with these expectations for
(44:59):
everybody, just to say oh yeah,it's you.
I'm going to go do it right now.
Even your best friend sometimescan't make your show.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
You know, and not also hold people to such
obligation.
That's another thing too.
I have learned to not saypeople's not so, you know.
So that's why I've learned totoss a whole lot back on me.
And even when I grew up, youknow, think about how I grew up
with my mom, and it was just me,my mother, my sister, and what
(45:24):
we didn't have, and I'm thinking, okay, but that was the life I
was supposed to have in thatmoment.
What can you change now thatyou have the knowledge?
So that's how I've beenoperating lately and it's still
scary.
It's still scary, but I'm stillmoving and grooving along.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I'm sitting alone at home, just missing all my folks.
It's hard to be the person inyour family who's moved along.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
There's always distance I miss.
Well, here is a exclusiveunreleased tune from my next
album.
Domi cleveland got to listen tothe demo and referred to this
song, so I thought it'd be dopeto let you hear what he was
talking about, and I'm reallyexcited about this album.
It's gonna be a lot fun, a lotof cool stories about me and the
things that I've been throughand the people that I love.
But, with that being said,until that album is out, you can
(46:24):
go listen to all my otherstreaming music on all streaming
platforms.
If you want to check me out formore information, go to
domlamorecom, where you can getanything and everything.
Dom, no More.
You know what I love.
I love my in-laws.
I married into a family here inGeorgia they're all here now,
(46:46):
but they're all from Californiaand I remember I dated a girl in
college and her parents didn'twant to meet me because I was
Black and she was a white girlin college and my wife is, of
course, white too.
That scared me to a point whereI never thought I would get
(47:08):
married to a white personbecause of that, and I only
dated black girls for a littlebit in LA but that's another
story and I was very, very hurtthat I couldn't be honest with
my family about that girlfriendand so every person I dated
after that, if they were adifferent race, dated Puerto
(47:32):
Rican girl.
I'm toward it.
I dated people and I was sonervous I'm like are your folks
cool with black people?
That was the first thing thatever ran through my head With
that girl.
I had a dream, maybe two weeksbefore we broke up, where I
dropped off our future child ather parents' house because some
(47:54):
way I made it okay and herparents were in our lives at
that point and I dropped the kidoff.
It was this really beautifulmixed girl with huge curly puffs
and it was pink barrettes.
I still remember exactly thecolor everything it was all pink
and she was so cute and lookedjust like her and like me and I
(48:18):
dropped off my kid and I walkedaway and it was like a movie,
Like I walked away in my dreamand I was still there but my,
the me had left.
And so I'm still there and shecloses the door and she looks at
my daughter and she just went.
What am I going to do with thislittle nappy headed kid?
And I remember that moment likeit was yesterday and that was
(48:41):
the moment I was like I can'teven tell my mother that I can't
.
I haven't met her parentsbecause they don't want to meet
me.
And so I held on to that kind ofenergy for years.
I held on to so much and I wasso nervous meeting my wife's
family because I didn't knowwhat to expect.
(49:02):
And they were everythingopposite of that.
They were very welcoming andthey just wanted their daughter
to be happy and they were sohappy that I made her happy and
they're still very happy that Imake her happy happy that I made
her happy and they're stillvery happy that I make her happy
.
And I never really thought thatI would be in a place where I
(49:22):
could spend holidays with otherpeople than my other, than my
mother and my grandparents orwhatever at home.
But you know, like New Year'sthis year was so fun.
I felt like I was at home withher family and it's just a long
journey of me working on myselfand understanding that people
(49:44):
are different, but I lucked outin the situation where I met
someone with an incrediblefamily and they embraced me.
So that's what I'm loving rightnow my family man.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's exciting, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yes, and you deserve that.
You deserve that, thank you.
Okay, you know what I love,right?
So, honestly, I mean it's kindof cliche, but it's actually.
It's my piece.
I'm a loner for the most part Ilike to be to myself.
I'm an overthinker, so let mebe clear.
I try not to push or have anytype of stuff on other people.
(50:19):
So what I love about my pieceis that I get to kind of think
and kind of go high and come lowin a way.
It's weird.
Like you said, you're weird,welcome to me.
Okay, I do, I take time tothink about.
I don't know something aboutsolitude, I just find beautiful.
I find beauty in it.
You know, you get to search alittle bit more about yourself.
(50:40):
Interacting with other people isgreat as well, I mean, and what
I'll do is when I do interact,I can come back and reassess
Again.
A lot of times I like it moreintroverted, but doing
extroverted work, coming backhome and being able to say, okay
, now I can wind down and begood to myself, I'm loving it.
I love baking as well Likethat's a thing for me.
I know it sounds, these arejust I'm kind of just simple, a
(51:00):
little more simple.
There's nothing wrong with thatI don't have in-laws right now.
Yeah, so you know, untilfurther notice, you know we'll
find that out.
Having my peace of mind andalso being solid with myself and
being very honest with myselfis something that I'm really
loving.
Calling myself to the redcarpet when I say red carpet
like, say, if there's somethingthat I should be acknowledging
about myself whether again value, or how I responded or reacted
(51:22):
to something, how much of it didI allow to soak inside of me
and how much of myself did Ilose trying to fix or do
whatever?
I'm loving solitude, quiet andsaying you don't have to win
everything and you don't have toplease everyone.
So I'm learning those thingsand I'm loving that part of me
way more than I've ever had.
And also self-acceptance issomething I'm really loving.
(51:43):
So, seeing my entire self, Ihad so many insecurities.
I wanted a new nose when I was12 years old.
I wanted the nose job.
I was too dark skin, all thisstuff.
And now, where I am, I'm likeman, so loving myself, so love
myself when there was a pointwhere I just couldn't see it,
you know.
But now I see all the beauty,you know, and I'm glad that I
finally am there.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
So that's when I'm really loving, and I hope to
continue to love on that for therest of my life All right, we,
we've made it to the end of theepisode and once again, I
appreciate you so much fortaking the time to speak to me.
I always love our talks and thiswas so great.
I just really love hearing yourinsight and experiences and the
(52:26):
things that you are working on,and it inspires me because I
feel like I'm in a good place oflooking within and trying to
make things a little better andlook out for myself.
So thank, you for that Iappreciate that At the end of
every episode we've talked abouteverything we want to talk
about.
We've covered every topic.
The last thing I always ask andall I want to know now is how
(52:49):
do you feel?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
I feel great, I feel honored.
I feel grateful for this momentto have this open space with
you.
Yeah, no regrets, so I feelgreat.
I feel grateful for this momentto have this open space with
you.
Yeah, no regrets, so I feelgreat.
How?
Speaker 1 (52:58):
do you feel?
I appreciate that.
See, that's the first personthis season to do that, so I
appreciate that.
I I feel, I feel like I'm in aplace.
I'm very I'm just very gratefulfor the people that I have
around me Because, like I said,I've had some negative stuff
(53:21):
going on, of course, but thenthe people around me are very
helpful in keeping me in theright headspace.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
And I just feel grateful because it's just, it's
so easy for us to fall down therabbit hole of negativity.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's so easy for us to be consumed with the forest
fires in.
LA were horrible to have all thestuff going on in Gaza.
It's horrible the stuff that'sgoing on in Ukraine, the stuff
that's going on in Africa.
Everything is so negativeoutside of my space and the
(53:59):
people that are around me are soloving and willing to work
through things with me.
People are excited to come onthis show and to talk through
things with me, which issomething I didn't have for a
long time.
I didn't have these honestconversations with people.
We would sit down and just talkabout nonsense, or we'll sit
(54:22):
down and we'll be on our phonesand we're not even talking to
each other.
It's very helpful, it's veryinspiring to find people who
just want to be happy, like me,and don't see me as competition.
They see me as another persongrowing.
(54:42):
That's just incredible and I'mfeeling real grateful for that.
That's awesome.
Cheers to you.
Cheers to you, sir, for comingout.
Thank you so much.
Such an honor.
Thank you.
I want to thank you forlistening to the black man
(55:03):
talking emotions podcast.
The opening quote.
Credit goes to Steve LynnHardaway Morris, aka Stevie
wonder, and shout out toCleveland Follow Cleveland at
Cleveland P Jones on Instagram.
Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us
a good rating.
Five stars, please, and thankyou.
You can support the show byclicking the link at the bottom
(55:24):
of the episode description.
If you like this episode, youshould check out another episode
that I did with a good friend,bo Lamar, titled behind the
music standing firm in artistryin tackling the live stage with
Dom L'Amour and Bo Lamar.
It's a great listen.
Check it out.
Follow me at DOM underscoreL-A-M-O-U-R on Instagram or at
(55:46):
domlamourcom.
I'm Dom L'Amour, much love.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Thank you.
My teacher.
She used to jump on me so much.
She looked at me one day andwas like you know, if you
weren't so damn nice, you'd besuccessful.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
That's it, sir.
Can we do this?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I remember her saying that, yeah, and it was good and
it was bad In a sense.
Yes, I understand exactly whatshe's saying, because when you
come into a room and like yousay you have that rookie feel
and everybody's like, oh, hejust wants everyone to be nice
and have fun and you're nervousabout how much money you should
be making and you're like I'lldo it for you for this much,
cause we're cool, like they willtake advantage of you, they
(00:32):
will do everything they can tolow ball you, use you as long as
possible and then throw youaway.
And I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
It's still something I strugglewith.
Same Ladies and gentlemen andanyone else who is here, my name
(01:00):
is Dom Lamour and you arelistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast is DonLamour and you are listening to
the Black man Talking Emotionspodcast.
On today's episode, I spokewith my good friend and Atlanta
vocalist, cleveland Jones, aboutthe music industry, retirement,
self-work and so much more.
I am what I am.
(01:24):
I love me.
I don't mean that egotistically.
I love that God has allowed meto take whatever it was that I
had and to make something out ofit.
Cheers to you and thank you somuch for coming on to the Black
Men Talking Emotions podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's an honor to be here, sir.
Thank you so much for coming onto the Black Men Talking
Emotions podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
It's an honor to be here, sir.
I wanted you here because, likeof course, I admire you.
I admire the things that you do, I love your voice, very vice
versa.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I want you to know that, yeah, thank you, but like
this is not just a give back,you know, but it's true, like I
pay attention to that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I'm proud and say, okay, they're doing it, I can do
this.
I just need to put this work in.
And this year I feel like I'mat a turning point in my career
in Atlanta where people arecalling me.
People are saying, hey, I heardyou can do this.
That's something that it takestime.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's what you want, though.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You want that?
Yes, but it takes time.
It takes so much time ofbuilding trust.
I mean, people could see that Icould do it when I first got
here, but that doesn't mean thatthey would trust me enough to
call me and be like, hey, I knowyou can do it.
It takes time.
They get to the point and theymight not even have me in their
(02:48):
brain.
They might see me after and belike, oh, I need someone to do
this.
I should have called you Like.
That's happened to me so manytimes.
So now to have people be likeI'm calling Dom and Dom is the
one who answers says yep, I'llbe there, that has been very,
very comforting and exciting yes.
I feel like this year I've donea lot more work on myself
(03:11):
internally so that I canpersonally feel the grateful
things, the blessings,understand that what's happening
around me is because of hardwork and not trying to create
another reason why it's happened.
To say it all, I just got lucky.
I'm not.
I'm not doing it anymore.
I've been working my butt offto be where I am and I'm
(03:32):
starting to see the hard workpay off and my wife is starting
to see it and be like oh, yougot this gig Cause you went to
that dude.
You told me you were going todo this and it's working and I'm
like that's the thing that Ialways hope that people can see,
especially people I love thatinvest in me.
I want them to see I'm not justout here lollygagging.
I promise you, when I say I'mgoing to sing an open mic, it's
(03:55):
because I'm shaking hands, I'mmeeting people, I'm creating
relationships.
I'm trying to build somethingso that I can continue to grow
in my career.
Build something so that I cancontinue to grow in my career.
Being in that place has beenreally nice.
I don't think I'm at the end ofthe line at all.
I think I'm nowhere near whereI could be.
But I've really embraced,looking at my scenarios and
(04:16):
trying to analyze what I cancontrol and what I can't control
, and that has been helpful andit's been helping my headspace
keep me clear, and I've beendoing a lot of journaling and
different things to get myselfto that place.
So I pose that question to you.
I see on Instagram you got agig here.
(04:36):
You're doing this and I knowthat you'd be out here moving.
What are some things that youfeel like you're doing?
That's kind of helping youright now.
Continue to stay on track withyour career.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You know what?
That's a really good question.
I'm going to give you a littlebackstory of when it started.
So it started back and this isshort very early 2001s.
I started singing at Apache Cafe, which is no longer but that
kind of got started and peopleheard what I did and started
asking me to do backgroundsspecifically.
So I was like oh yeah, sure,get your feet wet, find out how
(05:07):
this works for you.
And you know it continued tohappen.
A lot of those were definitelyfreebies or the ones that you're
supposed to get paid, andsomebody didn't.
You know they walked out theback door or whatever you know,
or they just simply just didn'tpay you.
So those things did happen, biglessons learned, but it also
taught me a big lesson aboutwhat I felt about myself, how I
(05:27):
really didn't value myself likeI should have.
I'm going to share this.
This lady said to me one timeshe says you don't know how good
you are.
She says you're more like a hoethat people can pimp out.
And to hear someone say that toyou was daunting.
I felt stupid and used and likewow.
Again, I didn't grow up withthis notion that I was amazing
or that I was good or thatpeople really were paying
attention.
I thought that I was just heygetting what you get it and also
(05:48):
a bigger thing is people alwaystelling you that you have to
pay your dues.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yep, I always hear that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
When I hear pay your dues, I'm thinking, okay, that I
got tired of it.
I said you know what?
I'm going to go study atBerklee College of Music and
figure out what's happening.
So I went up there, did my work, finished and then I came back
to Atlanta, for some reasonbelieving that because I did
that.
You know you went to Berklee,so therefore people are going to
like really respect you now.
(06:20):
So you know they already knowDon't come to Cleveland.
Because you know they alreadyknow don't come to Cleveland
because you know he has aBerkeley degree and so you know
that didn't matter.
It didn't matter when peoplethink you're easy and also when
they don't, when they kind ofsense that you don't know your
work you can past.
You know was one of thosethings of me not having value
for myself.
But back to in regards togetting the work and people
coming to you now and you know,asking you versus you having to
(06:42):
ask for it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I stopped.
To be honest, it sounds reallystrange, but I stopped doing the
open mics.
That doesn't sound strangebecause I do it more to keep
myself like on my toes.
I get it, you go in and there'sno practice and I can come in
and I can have a bad night andit's like, okay, how did I
handle that?
And then I can have a great oneand it's like, how did you do
that?
So like I do it strictly formyself.
I don't do it anymore, to mebecause I know that going to
(07:21):
those events sometimes is reallyit's about them.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But the other side of it is that it's definitely good
for the network and, like yousaid before, all that's good.
So there's no hate, no knockingon it, it's just saying that
for me, I had to make a decision.
First of all, I was tired ofthem.
To be honest, I was tired ofthem.
I do like them, but I like togo now.
I like to go and watch andlearn from meet a new singer, or
just listen instead of going tosing, so if I'm in the building
(07:48):
you know, and it doesn't makeme feel like.
I was in a building, so, oh mygosh, you got to sing.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, I never I never feel like that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
ever I never felt like I was honestly that special
.
So, just being really honest,though, I didn't feel that
special that I had to be in thisthing and this was the only way
.
I was going to make it.
I just decided for myself, justto say stop doing what you
don't want to do.
And also the power ofmanifestation.
I started having my what I liketo call my shower prayers.
I tend to get a littlespiritual in the shower and I
(08:16):
just have these moments and Istarted really talking to the
creator, talking to myself,because people say you shouldn't
I do.
So call me crazy, I'll staythat way, it's been helping me
throughout the years.
But primarily, I learned toreally speak over myself.
Speak the things that I wantNow have.
I gotten where I want to get to, yet Not quite, but I'm closer
than I've ever been and, if youthink about it, each day is a
closer day, no matter how youlook at it.
(08:37):
Even when it seems likeeverything's dead, nobody's
paying attention.
And also stop waiting forsomeone to discover you.
That was one of the things thatI did back in the day I never
forget.
I released a single back in2011 and I got a call from this
guy who was known for helpingpeople out, you know, getting
their career started from London.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And so when I got that call, I was like oh my God,
I remember I actually kind ofcried.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
No, I cried, I cried.
It was like oh my God, is thisbecause somebody's finally
hearing me?
And I remember saying that tohim Like wow somebody finally
hears me, somebody finally blah,blah, blah, and that also has
kind of set me up.
That showed my rookie side.
Of course, and it really showedthat okay, if I want to
manipulate this guy, I kind ofcan if I want to.
I felt manipulated in thatsituation.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And I eventually even signed a contract with him and
some people and I had to get outof it, so it wasn't working for
me.
But again, that was about menot having value of what I had.
So what I'm saying is pleasecontinue to do all those things.
I think what you're doing isvery smart.
As far as open mics, networking, being seen showing your face,
I'm not here to give you advice.
I'm just saying I think theseare great things.
Like you said, it works for you.
And again, I did this already,so I didn't walk out.
(09:46):
Somebody said, oh God, clevewas amazing, let's hire him.
It wasn't like that, it was.
Somebody saw me someplace andagain I was doing a show,
actually with ATL Collective.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I was in a Stevie Wonder show From that night,
back in, I think, 2015,.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've been with the same band now for almost eight
years.
Who saw me that night?
That's nice and I've not beenwith them for eight years.
So it works is what I'm saying.
It works.
Everything has its topsy turvymoments, but overall, if I'm
able to stick with you now goinginto eight years almost, nine
years, I guess, that's a goodsign that it's not so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I got two things.
I'll jump on with that.
Sure, going back to the whole,I feel like you're a whole quote
.
That's incredible.
The quote that I got that wassimilar to that in the sense of
it made me feel like, okay, Iguess.
But my teacher, she used tojump on me so much.
She looked at me one day andwas like if you weren't so damn
nice, you'd be successful.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's it, sir.
Can we do this?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I remember her saying that and it was good and it was
bad in a sense.
Yes, I understand exactly whatshe's saying, cause when you
come into a room and and, likeyou said, you have that rookie
feel and everybody's like, oh,he just wants everyone to be
nice and have fun, and you'renervous about how much money you
should be making and you'relike, oh, I'll do it for you for
this much, cause we're cool,like they will take advantage of
you, they will do everythingthey can to lowball you, yes,
(11:08):
use you as long as possibleAbsolutely, and then throw you
away Absolutely.
And I heard her.
I didn't like how she said it,but I heard her.
It's still something I strugglewith.
Same, I still struggle with theidea of being an asshole or
businessman.
I don't want to cut anyone'slegs off when doing this stuff.
(11:28):
I love to do my type of show.
I like people to come in andfeel like they can escape this
bullshit of a world that we livein, and then they can go home
and be like.
You know what made me feel goodtoday?
That guy's smile, that guy'sknowledge of the music, that
little story he told about theone song just really touched me
and I really enjoyed that.
(11:50):
That's all I want for people tofeel and it's hard for me to be
a mean person or direct.
I've always struggled with that, but that's something that
stayed with me.
And another thing I wanted tojump on, because you said you
had the moment of feelingmanipulated and used.
I had the same realization aswell, where I stopped
(12:11):
auditioning for like TV showsbecause of for this, like you
stopped doing the open mics.
For that one I stopped.
This guy would always call mefrom LA that he met me singing
once and I remember the firsttime he called me he really sold
the story great and he was likeI saw you and I feel like you
(12:33):
are going to fit perfectly.
And I was like he saw me.
I can't believe he would takethe time to call me and give me
an opportunity and look out forme.
And he had me audition forAmerican Idol the first time,
nice and then.
But during the American Idolaudition the guy playing piano
for like the trials was the guywho usually does piano for me in
(12:55):
LA.
He was one of my guys.
So like I saw him and he waslike what are you doing here?
And that was another moment ofunderstanding, like.
He looks at me like I'm aprofessional already.
He's like you're, you're not anamateur.
Why are you?
This isn't.
This is for people who, like,are willing to put in the work.
You're putting work in already.
Why are you here?
(13:15):
Why am I doing something thathe doesn't respect?
And that was interesting, thatthat was how that experience
went.
But years go on and you wantmore opportunity and people
aren't calling.
And this guy calls up like hey,I got another show that I think
you'd be great on, and it's theBeat the Shazam show.
Yeah, and I'm like OK, let's,let's do this audition.
(13:38):
And I go through the processand I feel little and I'm told
that I'm in the last bunch andthen I don't get it.
Then he calls me back and he'slike okay, you weren't a good
fit for that one, but we'regoing to call keep you in our
Rolodex for next year.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Is he an agent or just is he an agent he?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
is yeah, but he's not my agent.
He's just someone who knew meand got my information because I
gave him my card and so hecalled me for another show and
then he called me for anothershow, and then he called me for
a third show and after the thirdtime doing it, I got to saying
what am I getting out of this?
What do I want from this?
As a performer?
(14:13):
I want to perform and I want tomake money and I want to live
off of my art.
And I'm doing that when Iproduce my shows.
I'm doing that when I go andperform with the wedding band.
I'm doing that already.
Why do I feel like I have tokeep doing this?
What is this adding to mycareer?
And it wasn't adding anything.
It was just making me feel badabout myself.
(14:33):
It was making me feel like Iwas chasing a lottery, like I'm
going to win a million dollarsif I play on this game, and that
isn't something to play with.
In my head, in my head, moneylike even $100,000, that's not
something I want to gamble with.
I want to work for it and getit.
And this idea of doing theseshows and taking me in the big
(14:55):
thing that really turned me offwas I'm an actual wedding singer
, I'm a performer, I'm someonewho do this for a living.
And the guy kept telling me youknow, we would really like it
if you didn't say you were awedding singer.
You said that you sing on theside because that sells to
people.
You want them to feel likeyou're just an ordinary guy.
I was like but I'm not anordinary guy, I'm a singer.
(15:16):
This is what I do.
And so those moments, those twomoments, really helped me wake
up and understand that I have toevaluate the type of life that
I live, because it's not likeother people's lives.
I don't do the same thing otherpeople do.
I'm becoming a morning person,which is something I've always
(15:37):
wanted to do.
But I'm going to go to this showtonight that my friend is doing
and the show ends at twoo'clock.
I'm not going to stay till twoo'clock, but that's how long the
show goes.
And if I was getting paidtonight to go perform in this
show, I would be up till twoo'clock and it would be normal,
because that's what happens inour line of work.
I had another friend hey, Iwant you to come see a concert.
(15:59):
I was like I got rehearsal.
That's what happens when I'mrehearsing and performing.
It's usually when other peopleare off work and they're about
to have dinner and they're like,okay, great, let's do things.
And I can't do things withnormal people.
Usually Saturdays aren'tSaturday for me, it's Monday,
that's my.
(16:19):
Saturday yes, yes.
I know it in.
Yes, so it's.
It's always this balance ofreminding yourself.
So a friend the other day toldme that she has to remind
herself of her purpose when itcomes to her craft.
And I think that is somethingthat I'm starting to embrace a
(16:41):
lot more, because I do somethingthat is very weird.
And I say weird specificallybecause the life of a singer is
not normal.
It is weird.
We do weird things.
We get in front of people andwe beg for their attention for
an hour.
I know that's not what it isand I know sometimes you don't
(17:03):
even have to see it that way,but in a way that's what we do.
And you come home and yourehearse and I'm singing to
myself in the basement and I'mclunking in a piano and I'm like
if you didn't know who I wasand what I did and you walk past
my house, you'd be like theweirdo in there doing it.
That's my life and I'm okaywith that and I know that's what
(17:24):
it is.
So I want to continue to keepthe light shining in my head for
it, because I never want to seethat candle go out, where I
wake up one day and I'm justlike you know where I still can
do it, I still have the gift, Istill believe in myself as a
(17:52):
singer, that I'm good enough,but then I'm like I just don't
enjoy this anymore.
I don't, I could never do that,and I feel like I have to make
the extra effort to work onmyself to make sure that I know
exactly why I'm doing what I doand why I'm happy doing what I
do.
You know those things.
I feel like everybody has thosekind of stories where someone
(18:14):
said something off the cuff orthey had to start letting things
go, and I feel like this yearI've noticed more and I've
spoken about more the thingsI've had to let go to continue
to do what I do and be in a goodheadspace.
What are some things that youcan think of off the top of the
head that you like Other thanopen mics?
(18:35):
You're like I stopped doingthis because this wasn't helping
me, this wasn't puttinganything extra into my craft.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I love your fervency to continue, no matter what,
like you said, how emotionallyit would get you to think about
you not actually doing yourcraft or that you gave up on
something.
And my story is a littledifferent.
I definitely was all in andI'll give it about almost three
years ago.
I definitely had a give upmoment and when I did do that, I
was around February 2022.
I remember having this momentof saying why do you keep trying
(19:06):
?
That doesn't mean stop singing,and I want to ask you this,
actually and I hate this termstar, but is that your goal?
Is your goal to be thesuperstar, or what that is Like,
well-known throughout theentire world?
You know what I'm getting to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
No, I know what you mean, I read a book, and I
always do this when I have toanswer a question.
I read a book and one of thethings that stuck with me is
they said stop making goals.
Choose the pain that you'rewilling to go through to achieve
what you want to.
And so, instead of looking at itlike, oh, this is my goal, I'm
(19:46):
willing to do this, this, this,this and that, and so whatever
I'm willing to do, when you say,star, I don't know what I'm
willing to give up, to be Like,if you told me I had to stop
talking to my family, am Iwilling to do?
No, I love my family too much,so there's stuff that I don't
think I'm willing to give up.
If I went that high, if I gotthere, great, that's dope,
(20:06):
because that means I'm providedfor my family, but that's all
that really matters to me is, ifmy family taken care of, is my
wife taken care of?
Am I getting those moments thatI want in life?
I know that my life is different, and I do miss a lot of
cookouts.
I do miss a lot of parties.
I do miss a lot of nights atthe bar, because I'm singing at
weddings in Mississippi, or I'msinging in Nantucket, or I'm
(20:29):
performing in Nashville.
I'm constantly traveling andsinging.
I know that.
But if I don't have anything todo that night and I have a plan
with my wife and then someonecalls me and I really want to be
with my wife, I'll choose mywife before I do that, and
that's the pain that I'm willingto choose.
I'm willing to miss out onopportunities for it.
So to be a star like in my headI just I hear so many negative
(20:54):
things Like when you're a star,you lose your privacy.
When you're a star, you have to.
You know you have to smile whenyou don't want to smile.
You know that's one of myfavorite Usher songs.
Usher songs.
Sometimes I got a smile.
When I don't feel like smiling,sit back and ride when I feel
like driving.
I think about that and I'm likethat is something that I love.
(21:16):
To go for a long drive, I loveto be the person behind the
wheel.
I love to be able to reallyshow my emotion.
If I'm upset, I don't want topretend like I'm not.
I'm going to let you know I'mmad and that's something I'm not
willing to give up.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I love that and that part speaks volumes about I
think, that that says you'regoing to go even further than
you probably even see, andthat's because you're not
willing to risk whatever fameand fortune that could be for
the sake of getting the fame andfortune and dismissing all the
things you really love.
I love that you would chooseyour wife and say I'm sticking
to this plan because this isimportant to me, this is right,
or that situation, and I'm notgoing to not, you know, spend
(21:53):
this time with her just becausesome quick money just pop up.
Well, the position that I'm in,if quick money pop up, I'm like
go ahead and make that quickmoney Because- it seems to be
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Here's a great example.
Again my position though I getwhat you're saying.
Sometimes, like we had a gig, Ibooked a jam session because I
host a jam session now.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh good.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I booked it on the day we were supposed to go
see Leslie Odom me and my wife.
And I really wanted to go onthat.
But in my head I'm like Ireally want to do this jam
session because this issomething where I'm building it
from the ground myself.
I'm creating this myself andthis is a foundational thing
that I want to be a part of.
(22:35):
So that moment I chose doingthat over going out with my wife
, and my wife got to take one ofher good friends and had a
bonding night with her that shewouldn't have normally had if I
would have been there.
So it worked out for myself.
But, like in that scenario, Iwas willing to sacrifice that
moment for something that Ididn't make money on and that's
(22:58):
why I'm saying that like I woulddo it, especially if it means
I'm doing something that I knowwill benefit my career, and I
want to be better in certainscenarios.
But there's two things thatchoose your pain instead of your
goals really stuck out to me.
But then also setting targets,and the idea is, instead of
(23:21):
building goals you don't want todo that because a goal, you do
it and you're done you want toset a target because the goal
with a target is to shootthrough that.
So, choosing your pain,understanding exactly what you
got to go through to do this andthen shooting for a target.
Those are the things that Ivisualize and try to do.
I feel like I'm a realisticperson.
(23:41):
I've never sat down andfantasized about goofy stuff.
If I were to have a baby, I'mnot the person sitting there
like I'm just.
It's just look how cute thisbaby is.
I am thinking about the painthat I'm going to have to go
through.
What do I?
I'm going to have to wake upevery night.
I have to wake up this.
I have to deal with throw up.
I don't like picking up poopfor my dog.
I would hate cleaning poop offof a baby, but that's something
(24:04):
that I would be willing to do tobe a father.
So it's like what are the thingsI'm looking at, all of the
things that I'm willing to do,instead of being like the goal
is just to have a baby?
It's like that can't be yourgoal.
That isn't something you shouldshoot for, you know.
And so I, like I said, I justthink I try my best to analyze
(24:25):
things realistically and when itcomes to being a star, I mean,
there's so many valuables thatgo into doing that, like just
doing my album now.
I think about how difficult itis that I want to get a full
band in the studio and the firstalbum I did, I did that.
I had a full band in the studioand I talked to my engineer the
(24:46):
other day for my first albumand he was like you know what I
really liked about that projectwe did and I'm like, okay, my
first album was 10 years agothis year.
And he was like my favoritething was, thank you that we all
played it live in the studioand I was like what do you mean?
He was like, yeah, people don'tusually do that and I'm like,
(25:10):
wow, in my head I thought thatwas normal, I thought that was
how it was supposed to be, butthey're like that's unnatural.
And it's unnatural because itcosts a lot of money.
It's hard to get people on aschedule.
At the same time, it's hard toconvince people to see the
vision that you're creating.
But I'm willing to really trybecause that's how I want it to
(25:32):
be done.
I don't want people to be likeman, I wouldn't even know that
this is all computer generated.
No, I want them to be like whatthat's live.
I'm like, yeah, that's live,that's not computer generated.
And it's going to be hard formoney.
It's going to be hard forexposure Because, like you said,
that star element you thinkabout this discovery thing.
(25:54):
Someone's going to hear it andthey're going to blow it up.
Or this influencer is going topost it and it's going to blow
up.
And it's like the reality ofthat is people who have huge
marketing campaign with moneybacking it get put in front of
more people, absolutely.
So I'm going to put this albumtogether and then I have to find
a way to raise money, put moneytogether, make money, earn
(26:18):
money to push the project outthere and hope that people see
it when I push it out there,like that's what I have to do.
It's not a matter of me doingthis, thinking maybe something
like I did that on my firstalbum.
I'll fully admit that when Iwas younger I put that album out
thinking, okay, this is goingto be like my demo when I go to
LA.
People will hear it and they'lllove it and this and this and
(26:39):
this and that.
But I didn't have enough moneyto market it, so no one heard it
for real, except for my corepeople.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
And in 2015,.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
People heard more stuff Like I'll put something on
YouTube and I'll get like 3000views on YouTube.
Back then Now I do that samething, I'll get like 200 views.
You know, it's a differentworld and it's hard to sit down
as someone who has done their10,000 hours, as someone who is
truly wanted to get themselvesto a level where they're
(27:10):
confident in saying I'm aprofessional and I know.
Wherever room I go and perform,people will look at me and be
like, oh, he's a littledifferent than everyone else,
cause he's an actualprofessional.
I want that I've always workedfor that and so to be in that
position now and understand thatit's hard for me to sit down
and be like well, you know, I'mstill just doing it for the
music and this and that.
No, when I put this stufftogether, I'm trying to build a
(27:32):
career, I'm trying to build aliving for my life.
I want to make sure that I cango, travel and see these places.
I want to be able to do all ofthis.
I want to save money.
You know, I want to do all ofthat.
(27:53):
Cleveland and I met throughsocial media, of course, in a
way, but in person it was kindof out of nowhere.
I went to this Nat King Coleshow they were doing for a
candlelight series here inAtlanta and, of course, if I see
Nat King Cole, I got to go.
That's my guy, so I was curiousto see what music the artist
would play for that gig and howwould they approach the
storytelling and and what wouldthey do, because you know a lot
(28:13):
of people focus on his Christmascatalog and don't really know
that this dude was, you know,one of the best.
So we checked out the Mack andCole show.
Adrian and and I went togetherand of course, cleveland was
singing the tunes and I got tosee this person that I only saw
online in person, do their work,really create something
(28:37):
beautiful, and his voice isbutter.
It's crazy how I feel likethere's certain artists who
don't have to push too much tocreate incredible sound, if that
makes sense.
Like he just could open hismouth and didn't have to take a
deep breath, or it was justincredible to see him working.
(28:57):
He played a lot of my favoritesongs and that was a great place
for us to get to actually builda relationship from, because I
could see that he had commoninterests in the music that I
loved and he was out herepushing some great stuff to the
public, and ever since thenwe've kept in touch and we've
(29:18):
looked out for each other andthat's always encouraging.
So I truly appreciate Clevelandtaking the time to come hang out
with us here at the Black MenTalking Emotions podcast and,
honestly, go look up ClevelandJones.
He's just an incrediblevocalist who deserves to be
(29:38):
heard by everyone.
I know that he said that it'sone of those things that you
know it happens when it happens,but if I can help in any way, I
will, and y'all need to golisten to Cleveland.
So once again, thank you toCleveland for being on the show.
I hope you're enjoying all ofthe stuff that this guy is
saying.
I really enjoy the way hethinks and the way he pursues
his life, so cheers to Cleveland.
Moving towards retirement,trying to find a way to create a
(30:04):
life after this, do you seeyourself as an old man singing
at the bar still?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I honestly don't.
I do not.
I see myself traveling to allthe great places I've always
wanted to go.
That I'm starting to do now.
Turning 50 last year was athing for me, and it was
daunting because I realized Ihad nothing to stand on.
I had no guidance in regards tothe future as far as retirement
.
I was thinking like, wow, thepoint is never hoping that it
does, of course, that if thevoice decides it doesn't want to
(30:32):
do what it used to do or whatyou thought it would do and it's
no longer, what are youstanding on?
What do?
You do Do you go find a nine tofive.
Are you too old to go find it?
What are you doing to moveforward with your life and
making sure that you're stillfine?
And I know people say it's notabout the finances, but we do
need money to move.
Period, so I'm not going to sithere in front like I don't need
it and that I don't want it.
I do.
I want to do better.
(30:52):
So I'm finding other avenues tofigure it out, and not
musically, because I don't thinkmy future will be based on as
far as my financial future willbe based on music at all.
If it does, that'd be awonderful surprise.
I just don't at all.
I personally feel veryoverlooked a lot because it's
like you put out so much.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And when I say overlook, it's not like I'm
looking for people to say, oh mygosh my name is Cleaving.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Have you not seen me?
I can really sing.
That's not what I'm saying,it's just like when you think
about the time and energy thatyou've placed in and what it is
is hearing from so many peopleabout.
This is your season.
This is your time.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Oh my gosh, and that season hasn't happened.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Or maybe they're these little mini seasons.
I don't know, maybe it was amoment where you made people
happy with what you put out,that you gave out.
And maybe that was a season forthem to feel that way about you,
but not necessarily your season, and I'm thinking I've learned
to calm that down within myself.
So that's why I was asking youabout the whole star thing,
because I no longer push myselfinto the space and feel like I
(31:47):
got to be seen, I got to be theartist.
I got it.
Well, I am the artist, but Ihave to be the star.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Like you know, I should be signed with a major
label.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And why am I not?
And you know, you hear frommany people why are you not with
a major label?
I don't understand how come theworld has not heard your voice.
Well, some kind of way, a goodbit heard me, but it still
doesn't constitute money.
A Grammy doesn't constituteriches.
So, everybody's all stuck onthat stuff and I'm not because
I'm thinking, well, it would benice I'm not crying if I don't
(32:15):
get one Again.
I will accept it if I get it,just to be clear.
But it's just something aboutit that says if it doesn't, then
it doesn't.
But I will work towards givingmy best, not working towards a
Grammy award winning project,because there's some things that
won Grammys.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I don't think should happen.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
But that's just a personal opinion.
So you know it's a matter ofthat.
But my focus is really makingsure that my health is good, you
know, like if your health isyour wealth for real, like I'm
making sure all these things arealigned.
It's just with being verytransparent these things are
aligned.
It's just being very transparent.
I went to the doctor's officebecause I had a pain in my side
and I'm thinking, okay, is thisa sciatic nerve or something's
happening?
And as soon as I get there,they never even got a chance to
(32:56):
check out what I was askingabout.
When I got there, they put thelittle heart monitor thing on my
finger and my heart was racing.
I could feel it but, I, didn'tknow it was all that deep.
And she said do you know thatyou could potentially be
threatening a heart attack?
I'm thinking excuse me, like Ijust literally came here just to
see what's going on with myside man.
And then it turned intosomething.
What I'm getting at is that lifeis really short, not saying I
(33:19):
plan to live a long time.
Right, plan to live a long time, hopefully we'll live a long
time, but I want to live thehappiest health of time.
But I want to live the happiest, healthiest life I can.
And so, yes, the artistic sideof me will always be, because I
was born an artist.
That part of me will be.
I think my personality, myenergy exudes that anyway to
some degree.
I sometimes people think I'm alittle mysterious.
I'm pretty much plain.
Plain.
I think I'm very regular, but alot of people don't think I'm
(33:42):
regular.
And no, I am not out in a lotof places to say make friends, I
like people and then I don't atthe same time.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You know I like my privacy.
I'm a little more introverted,even though we do a lot of
extroverted work.
So you know it automaticallylooks like you're a people
person and I love, when it'sover, to go back into my little
cubby hole and chill and go cozyand that's fine.
All that to say.
I've learned to believe inmyself.
I've learned to say you arevaluable and I'm telling you
that you are valued because I'veheard your work.
Thank you, sir.
(34:11):
Thank you and it is good workand I love and I'm going to
speak on this.
There was a song that you haveto your family.
I think you were talking abouthow Dami yeah yeah yeah.
It's very sweet, I know that'syour how.
You know.
It was very endearing to hearyou know, especially related to
family and what you said earlierabout how you are not willing
(34:32):
to not talk to your family or,you know, excommunicate your
family for the sake of stardom.
I think that's a beautiful thingthat you know.
Some things just are off thetable, and that's really good.
And that's about integrity,ethics and how you feel about
you and your real passion forpeople and the passion for
people that you really love.
I'm the same way, very much thesame way, but what I believe is
that the power of manifestationI do believe what you're
(34:53):
speaking to, existence can beand will come to pass.
That's one of my biggestfocuses, like when we spoke
earlier about the manipulationof people saying one thing and
then you kind of feel likeyou've been dragged a little bit
.
Then you ask yourself and thisis what I'm going back to.
We allow it.
I love the part of us that'sstill willing to find out even
if this seems like a repeatedthing, because it could be the
(35:14):
day that it does happen.
I love that willingness that wedo put out as artists, as
humans, to let it happen.
But at the same time I do feelthat if your gut is saying this
is interesting or somethingshould stop here, or I should
stop here, trust that thing andstop and have the power of
saying no.
I think that's one of thebiggest things that nice guys
have issues with.
I call my.
I would say to my friends Isaid I have a good boy syndrome.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I just you know, I want to make everybody happy,
Are you?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
okay, is everything all right.
And even if I'm sufferingmyself and it's always a
surprise for me, just as anothertransparent moment, so very
surprising for me when someoneactually offered to help me or
do something kind for me I'mjust accustomed to being the
kind one and doing stuff forpeople, so when somebody
actually takes a moment and lookout for me or just thought of
me, man, that almost makes mecry.
(35:58):
Yeah, I'm not used to it andthat's what a lot of people
don't know.
So I'm always the giver.
I'm a huge giver and sometimesI give too much, and I will say
that I want everybody to behappy, even when I'm not how can
I fix it?
I'm a fixer, and that's not oneof my most positive things.
It's a beautiful thing, butit's also it could take me down,
it could depress me, it couldtake me through a lot of dark
(36:19):
places that I don't want to bein.
So but I've learned to say okay, take a deep breath and if this
is not for you, be okay torelease it.
And that's still not as easy,but I still.
I try my best to change that.
The older I get, how do I valuemyself?
How do I speak money?
But I don't like to talk moneywhen I'm doing a service for
someone.
I don't want to get the lowestthat you can give me when you
(36:40):
could have given me better.
But I am the one holding myselfresponsible for not speaking of
my value or what I want fromthis thing.
And so when you do get penniesof it, you get upset.
Well, cleveland, that's yourfault, because you accepted it
and you also did the work.
If you sent me a demo, you say,hey, cleveland, why don't you
do this demo for me?
And you know we'll talk aboutthe money later and I'll get
excited because I'm now about todo a project my Innocence with
(37:01):
music.
Right, it's hurtful to my heart.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
But it's also my fault.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's your fault.
Yeah, exactly, because if youdidn't initiate, okay, we should
talk money now and that.
But it's society Like it sucks.
Saying that it's your faultbecause it is, but technically
in this society I mean everyplace I've worked they say don't
speak about your wages to otherpeople.
And the only reason why that isthe thing is because they're
(37:43):
low balling people.
And so you get a position whereyou know, in some scenarios it
isn't okay to talk about yourwage because people will
especially if you're givingsomeone a good deal it'll come
back and bite you.
You know, oh, you gave thisdude this deal, why not me?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And it's like and at that moment, this is what I'm
learning to say.
Well, my price did change, andthat was a moment back then.
And my whole thing is alsobeing okay with accepting that
this person doesn't want to workwith you because you cost too
much.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Okay, yeah, and that's totally fine yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Find the next person, and that's totally being okay
with that.
Now, of course, sometimes wecould be in dire need,
specifically with our line ofwork.
Now, unless you make it somebuku cash, you know singing
doing what you're doing, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I mean I'm grateful to be having been 13 years as a
solo music artist and being ableto survive in Atlanta, slash,
boston.
It has been a very trying butbeautiful time and season for me
in my life.
Again, I didn't think aboutretirement then.
I didn't think about the future, of what could or could not
(38:41):
happen.
And if something does happensay ie cannot sing or things are
canceled, how do you stillfunction, how do you still keep
moving financially in your life?
So I'm just trying to findthose smarter things for myself.
Right now I do want to sing atleisure if I so choose, and then
just say oh, but I'm in.
Central Pay right now.
I'll talk to you later.
Oh, fight, so choose and thenjust oh, but I'm in central pay
right now.
I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I'm just gonna go to costa rica for a second, because
I can but not realizing that itall, that magic and power, has
been sitting in my hands theentire time that's incredible to
be in a place where you can seeit, because I, like I said, I
feel like I'm there too, whereI'm, my wife and I'm going to
italy this year yes we'refinding ways to see different
parts of the world.
We plan ahead.
(39:17):
People were like, oh, you gotthis, and I'm like it's not that
we got a lot of money, it'sthat we planned this two years
ago.
This isn't something we'redoing now.
We've been saving and we'vebeen very much taking care of
our finances properly, somethingthat I always dreamed of when I
was younger, which is a weirdthing to dream of as a kid,
because I'm like this weirdo.
(39:38):
I was there.
I keep on saying that, but inthe theater department that I
went to, they were very negativeto us and very upfront about
you're going to be broke somedayas a performer.
It's not easy, and they madesure that we heard that you're
never going to have a 401k Likethey made sure to say that to us
(39:58):
unless you make the effort tosave your money or do this.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
You have to create it .
You got to create everything.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
And so for me in college I remember hearing that
and be like, oh, whatever.
And then I remember I startedworking at, I think, Magianos.
That was the first time I evergot a 401k.
They were putting parts of mycheck into this 401k.
I'm like, huh, so I'm going tohave money because of this
restaurant.
It's not going to be a lot ofmoney, but I guess I should just
(40:28):
keep working here.
I should keep doing this,because I can't have this
without this restaurant, can I?
I stopped working there.
I was like, yeah, I don't needthat 401k from now.
I'm not going to work there forthat specifically.
That's not enough.
I want to be happy, I want tobe doing what I'm doing and I've
finally gotten myself.
The pandemic helped me.
I got paid the most money I evergot paid during the pandemic
(40:49):
through unemployment, because inCalifornia they had a very,
very incredible unemploymentboost during the COVID.
So I was able to pay off debtsand I was able to start a
savings account, something thatI've always dreamed of doing,
and people always say theeasiest way to do a savings
account is have them take themoney out.
You don't see it and it'shappening constantly and you
(41:13):
turn around and you realize yougot this much money saved and
that's the best way to do it,and I used to put money as a
bartender, as a server, asalways doing something customer
service I used to have likedollars in like a shoe box under
my bed and that was how I wouldsave money.
But this has been so much morebeneficial, of course, because I
(41:34):
can't, you know, grab thisshoebox and spend all that money
, and it's been something that'sopened my eyes to just how I
could have been doing thisbefore, but I wasn't
prioritizing this kind of stuff,I wasn't thinking about my
future, because I'm young, I'mtrying to live now I'm broke.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, A lot of times the prioritizing is about
knowledge, right?
Yeah, a lot of times theprioritizing is about knowledge.
Right, yeah, A lot of times wewere not.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I don't know about your situation, but I was never
taught anything about how tosave or keep or do whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And so now here I am, 50 years old, like, oh my gosh,
wait a minute, wait, wait asecond, I'll be 60 in 10 years.
What do you really have to leanon?
Suppose you're not sayingwhatever it is like, what are
you doing that has you know?
And whatever it is like, whatare you doing that has you know?
So what I will say for eitherof us is that the timing is
always right.
Even when it seems too late.
The knowledge of knowing andknowing what to do when you do
(42:23):
get the knowledge is whatmatters most.
So if you're moving, forwardnow and luckily you started with
my Maggiano's and what you'vebeen saving.
You know I started saving.
I was like, oh, you know, buthere's.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
But then here's my other mentality, that I took
that I'm not the most positivething I would say well, you know
we're going to die anyway,we're going to die anyway.
It's like what I mean it's likeyou know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You don't know the day, not the hour.
Blah, you know, we're toldagain learning about America and
credit too that America is likeone of the only places that
deals with credit like that.
It's kind of daunting becauseyou know you probably go to the
(43:05):
next country and be able to geta house a little bit easier than
you could get it here.
It's a lot of, you know, redtape, red tape, red tape, red
lining, all that stuff here thata lot of us are, you know,
having to deal with,particularly if you're brown
people, black or brown orwhatever.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It's just a little bit difficult, more difficult.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
All that to say, I'm still not allowing that
knowledge to curtail me fromgetting where I need to get to
Like just because you heardabout this, just because someone
told you no, or just becausesomeone tried to, you know,
belittle you for whatever reason, it doesn't say that that's who
you are and that's where you'regoing to go Like it really has
more so the power of how youvalue you, your personal power.
Are you using it?
(43:35):
Are you using it against you,or are you not aware of it?
And so that's where I am nowSaying okay, you want to
complain and it's okay tocomplain.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I believe in complaining.
So people can say I'm countrySouthern South Carolina and
we'll say we ain't nothing tocomplain about, but that's
bullshit to me.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Excuse my language.
Very much so, because I'mthinking this is how I feel
today and I'd rather get it outinstead of letting it fester
Later on down the line.
It comes up as an ulcer orwhatever.
Say what you got to say and ifit's not serving you, let it be.
But if you need and you feellike it's something that needs
to be spoken from the heart, atleast hopefully you're coming
(44:09):
from a real honest place andhopefully a loving space speak
your heart.
I'm glad that I'm learning,because there was a point where
I knew nothing and I was justthinking okay, I got a gig
tomorrow.
Oh, the gig got canceled.
Then what am I going to do?
And now I'm more like okay, doyou have something sitting to
the side?
If nothing else, it's yourfault if it's not sitting to the
side.
So I always remember that.
(44:37):
What was my part in this thingthat didn't go so well?
And also what did go well, andthat's another thing too.
We love to talk about thedownside of things so much, but
what about the happy stuff thatis happening?
What about the fact that youcreated your own open mic or
whatever?
You're innovative, you startedsomething and people are coming
and seeing and it's moving.
I don't care how big, small,whatever it is, it's moving.
Because a lot of times you walkin with these expectations for
(44:59):
everybody, just to say oh yeah,it's you.
I'm going to go do it right now.
Even your best friend sometimescan't make your show.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
You know, and not also hold people to such
obligation.
That's another thing too.
I have learned to not saypeople's not so, you know.
So that's why I've learned totoss a whole lot back on me.
And even when I grew up, youknow, think about how I grew up
with my mom, and it was just me,my mother, my sister, and what
(45:24):
we didn't have, and I'm thinking, okay, but that was the life I
was supposed to have in thatmoment.
What can you change now thatyou have the knowledge?
So that's how I've beenoperating lately and it's still
scary.
It's still scary, but I'm stillmoving and grooving along.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I'm sitting alone at home, just missing all my folks.
It's hard to be the person inyour family who's moved along.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
There's always distance I miss.
Well, here is a exclusiveunreleased tune from my next
album.
Domi cleveland got to listen tothe demo and referred to this
song, so I thought it'd be dopeto let you hear what he was
talking about, and I'm reallyexcited about this album.
It's gonna be a lot fun, a lotof cool stories about me and the
things that I've been throughand the people that I love.
But, with that being said,until that album is out, you can
(46:24):
go listen to all my otherstreaming music on all streaming
platforms.
If you want to check me out formore information, go to
domlamorecom, where you can getanything and everything.
Dom, no More.
You know what I love.
I love my in-laws.
I married into a family here inGeorgia they're all here now,
(46:46):
but they're all from Californiaand I remember I dated a girl in
college and her parents didn'twant to meet me because I was
Black and she was a white girlin college and my wife is, of
course, white too.
That scared me to a point whereI never thought I would get
(47:08):
married to a white personbecause of that, and I only
dated black girls for a littlebit in LA but that's another
story and I was very, very hurtthat I couldn't be honest with
my family about that girlfriendand so every person I dated
after that, if they were adifferent race, dated Puerto
(47:32):
Rican girl.
I'm toward it.
I dated people and I was sonervous I'm like are your folks
cool with black people?
That was the first thing thatever ran through my head With
that girl.
I had a dream, maybe two weeksbefore we broke up, where I
dropped off our future child ather parents' house because some
(47:54):
way I made it okay and herparents were in our lives at
that point and I dropped the kidoff.
It was this really beautifulmixed girl with huge curly puffs
and it was pink barrettes.
I still remember exactly thecolor everything it was all pink
and she was so cute and lookedjust like her and like me and I
(48:18):
dropped off my kid and I walkedaway and it was like a movie,
Like I walked away in my dreamand I was still there but my,
the me had left.
And so I'm still there and shecloses the door and she looks at
my daughter and she just went.
What am I going to do with thislittle nappy headed kid?
And I remember that moment likeit was yesterday and that was
(48:41):
the moment I was like I can'teven tell my mother that I can't
.
I haven't met her parentsbecause they don't want to meet
me.
And so I held on to that kind ofenergy for years.
I held on to so much and I wasso nervous meeting my wife's
family because I didn't knowwhat to expect.
(49:02):
And they were everythingopposite of that.
They were very welcoming andthey just wanted their daughter
to be happy and they were sohappy that I made her happy and
they're still very happy that Imake her happy happy that I made
her happy and they're stillvery happy that I make her happy
.
And I never really thought thatI would be in a place where I
(49:22):
could spend holidays with otherpeople than my other, than my
mother and my grandparents orwhatever at home.
But you know, like New Year'sthis year was so fun.
I felt like I was at home withher family and it's just a long
journey of me working on myselfand understanding that people
(49:44):
are different, but I lucked outin the situation where I met
someone with an incrediblefamily and they embraced me.
So that's what I'm loving rightnow my family man.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's exciting, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yes, and you deserve that.
You deserve that, thank you.
Okay, you know what I love,right?
So, honestly, I mean it's kindof cliche, but it's actually.
It's my piece.
I'm a loner for the most part Ilike to be to myself.
I'm an overthinker, so let mebe clear.
I try not to push or have anytype of stuff on other people.
(50:19):
So what I love about my pieceis that I get to kind of think
and kind of go high and come lowin a way.
It's weird.
Like you said, you're weird,welcome to me.
Okay, I do, I take time tothink about.
I don't know something aboutsolitude, I just find beautiful.
I find beauty in it.
You know, you get to search alittle bit more about yourself.
(50:40):
Interacting with other people isgreat as well, I mean, and what
I'll do is when I do interact,I can come back and reassess
Again.
A lot of times I like it moreintroverted, but doing
extroverted work, coming backhome and being able to say, okay
, now I can wind down and begood to myself, I'm loving it.
I love baking as well Likethat's a thing for me.
I know it sounds, these arejust I'm kind of just simple, a
(51:00):
little more simple.
There's nothing wrong with thatI don't have in-laws right now.
Yeah, so you know, untilfurther notice, you know we'll
find that out.
Having my peace of mind andalso being solid with myself and
being very honest with myselfis something that I'm really
loving.
Calling myself to the redcarpet when I say red carpet
like, say, if there's somethingthat I should be acknowledging
about myself whether again value, or how I responded or reacted
(51:22):
to something, how much of it didI allow to soak inside of me
and how much of myself did Ilose trying to fix or do
whatever?
I'm loving solitude, quiet andsaying you don't have to win
everything and you don't have toplease everyone.
So I'm learning those thingsand I'm loving that part of me
way more than I've ever had.
And also self-acceptance issomething I'm really loving.
(51:43):
So, seeing my entire self, Ihad so many insecurities.
I wanted a new nose when I was12 years old.
I wanted the nose job.
I was too dark skin, all thisstuff.
And now, where I am, I'm likeman, so loving myself, so love
myself when there was a pointwhere I just couldn't see it,
you know.
But now I see all the beauty,you know, and I'm glad that I
finally am there.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
So that's when I'm really loving, and I hope to
continue to love on that for therest of my life All right, we,
we've made it to the end of theepisode and once again, I
appreciate you so much fortaking the time to speak to me.
I always love our talks and thiswas so great.
I just really love hearing yourinsight and experiences and the
(52:26):
things that you are working on,and it inspires me because I
feel like I'm in a good place oflooking within and trying to
make things a little better andlook out for myself.
So thank, you for that Iappreciate that At the end of
every episode we've talked abouteverything we want to talk
about.
We've covered every topic.
The last thing I always ask andall I want to know now is how
(52:49):
do you feel?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
I feel great, I feel honored.
I feel grateful for this momentto have this open space with
you.
Yeah, no regrets, so I feelgreat.
I feel grateful for this momentto have this open space with
you.
Yeah, no regrets, so I feelgreat.
How?
Speaker 1 (52:58):
do you feel?
I appreciate that.
See, that's the first personthis season to do that, so I
appreciate that.
I I feel, I feel like I'm in aplace.
I'm very I'm just very gratefulfor the people that I have
around me Because, like I said,I've had some negative stuff
(53:21):
going on, of course, but thenthe people around me are very
helpful in keeping me in theright headspace.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
And I just feel grateful because it's just, it's
so easy for us to fall down therabbit hole of negativity.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's so easy for us to be consumed with the forest
fires in.
LA were horrible to have all thestuff going on in Gaza.
It's horrible the stuff that'sgoing on in Ukraine, the stuff
that's going on in Africa.
Everything is so negativeoutside of my space and the
(53:59):
people that are around me are soloving and willing to work
through things with me.
People are excited to come onthis show and to talk through
things with me, which issomething I didn't have for a
long time.
I didn't have these honestconversations with people.
We would sit down and just talkabout nonsense, or we'll sit
(54:22):
down and we'll be on our phonesand we're not even talking to
each other.
It's very helpful, it's veryinspiring to find people who
just want to be happy, like me,and don't see me as competition.
They see me as another persongrowing.
(54:42):
That's just incredible and I'mfeeling real grateful for that.
That's awesome.
Cheers to you.
Cheers to you, sir, for comingout.
Thank you so much.
Such an honor.
Thank you.
I want to thank you forlistening to the black man
(55:03):
talking emotions podcast.
The opening quote.
Credit goes to Steve LynnHardaway Morris, aka Stevie
wonder, and shout out toCleveland Follow Cleveland at
Cleveland P Jones on Instagram.
Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us
a good rating.
Five stars, please, and thankyou.
You can support the show byclicking the link at the bottom
(55:24):
of the episode description.
If you like this episode, youshould check out another episode
that I did with a good friend,bo Lamar, titled behind the
music standing firm in artistryin tackling the live stage with
Dom L'Amour and Bo Lamar.
It's a great listen.
Check it out.
Follow me at DOM underscoreL-A-M-O-U-R on Instagram or at
(55:46):
domlamourcom.
I'm Dom L'Amour, much love.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Thank you.
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