Have you ever wondered about the journey behind a successful dermatologist? We're thrilled to introduce Dr. Jeffrey Scales, an esteemed dermatologist and founder of the North Carolina Center for Dermatology. 🩺👨🏾⚕️ In this bonus episode of the B-MED podcast, Dr. Scales takes us from his early interests in medicine to his flourishing career.
Our discussion also dives into the adventure of transitioning from one medical specialty to another as Dr. Scales delves into his transition from pediatrics to dermatology. He shares nuggets of wisdom about the interview process for trainees, encouraging them to align their interests with their chosen specialty and urging them to consider the culture and location of the programs they are considering. He shares how he balanced his family time, with his spouse also being a physician! Join us for this insightful and inspiring BONUS episode as we navigate with Dr. Scales!🎙️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever considered owning your own
practice?
Or what about transitioningfrom one career field to another
?
On today's episode of theBlackMed Connect podcast, I had
the fantastic opportunity tointerview Dr Jeffrey Scales, a
dermatologist and the founder ofthe North Carolina Center for
dermatology in Durham, northCarolina.
(00:20):
We had an amazing conversationtalking about his journey
through medicine and as afounder of a practice and owner
of a practice, and so much more.
Let's jump right into theepisode.
Roll the music.
Hi everyone.
(00:45):
Welcome back to the BlackMedConnect podcast, affectionately
known as the Be man podcast,where we share inspiring stories
of black physicians andphysicians in training at the
intersection of medicine,culture and innovation.
We're excited to be here thisevening.
I have an amazing guest with me.
His name is Dr Jeffrey Scalesand we want to welcome you on to
(01:08):
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thank you for having me, Dr Weiss.
It's a real pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Absolutely so, dr Scales, if you could share a
little bit more about whatinspired you to pursue medicine,
and will work our way all theway up to you being the owner
and founder of the NorthCarolina Center for Dermatology.
Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, sounds great.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, I was born in North Carolina, I was raised in
the Washington DC area and mymother was a nurse, an RN, that
worked in several hospitals, butI remember her most fondly
working at Howard UniversityHospital and in that role she
worked with a lot of blackphysicians, including her boss,
who was a pediatrician.
And it turns out that her, theboss's husband, was the first
(01:54):
black pediatric surgeon in theworld.
As far as I know, he wastrained at Children's Hospital.
But anyway, I got to know him,got to know his son who was one
of my best friends, chuck Rosser, and his mother, and I really
enjoyed the conversation theyhad about medicine.
I enjoyed the stories my motherwould come home with and there
was a certain deference inreverence she had about the
(02:15):
doctors and the work that theydid in the hospital and I
remember thinking this is reallysounds like a great profession,
sounds like something I'd bevery interested in.
The odd thing was well, I'm oneof those people I was growing
up where if someone was sick Iwouldn't stay away from them.
You know, if they had some cutin your arm, I'm trying to stay
away.
If you had ever told me I wouldend up as a physician, I would
have said no, that would not bewhat I'd end up.
I wouldn't be a race car driveror an architect.
(02:35):
But it turns out that medicinewas my calling.
So I was fortunate enough tofinish high school there in
Bethesda, maryland.
I went to Morehouse College inAtlanta many years ago More than
I'd like to remember at thispoint and I had the opportunity
there to get exposed to somereally sharp people, some really
motivated and intelligent andfocused men in ways that black
(03:00):
men in particular had not beenin a setting like that before.
It really was a veryinspirational time for me during
my life.
It really helped forge me andit worked hard.
I did well and made Phi BetaKappa and I was able to go to
medical school.
I was accepted to a number ofmedical schools, but I chose to
go to an Ivy League medicalschool Mainly because I wanted
(03:22):
to see the challenge.
People asked me why I shouldchoose a medical school.
You could have gone to Howardor some other place.
I was admitted to all thoseplaces, but I decided I wanted
to try the challenge.
So I went and it was really abig change.
It was quite a cultural changefrom Morehouse College in
Atlanta to the Ivy League therein Philadelphia, pennsylvania.
(03:43):
But it was good learningexperience.
I went on to train inpediatrics and practice that for
a while and then finallydermatology.
It was the inspiration of thosepeople around me, particularly
my mother, that took me down thepath to medicine.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's fantastic.
It's interesting and it'salways exciting to hear how
people get started along thejourney.
So when you mentioned youweren't interested before,
didn't really want to be aroundsick people, was it your time at
Morehouse that reallysolidified that you wanted to do
medicine or did you startleaning towards it?
What really led you to go fromnot really thinking medicine to
(04:18):
maybe?
This is for me.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Actually it's probably more when I was in
middle school that I decided Iwanted to do.
That had to do with the factthat my mother took me into the
hospital and exposed me to someof the other doctors.
I always found them to be verydisciplined and honorable men,
very professional.
I really like the way theycarry themselves, the work they
were doing helping children andhelping many people there in the
(04:42):
area.
It's a predominantly blackinstitution and I really
appreciate seeing so many peopledoing such positive things.
So at that point I decided Iwanted to be a doctor.
There were a few things alongthe way that perhaps got my
attention a bit.
There's some things now that Ithink is very interesting.
If these fields had beenavailable then I might have
(05:02):
considered the things likesupply chain management and big
data analysis and cybersecurity.
Those things didn't exist atthe time I was going through,
but still I think I still wouldhave chosen medicine and I've
been very happy with it.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That's fantastic.
So you mentioned your time atMorehouse and then getting into
the Ivy Leagues.
Right now we're in that seasonfor trainees who are thinking
about or either in theirinterview seasons or about to
start, what advice would youpossibly give?
You went through it sounds likefor a pediatric.
So what advice would you giveearly on to a trainee who's
(05:38):
working their way through theinterview trail?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Is this a person that's finishing medical school
and heading into a residency?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, okay, so I'll take it in two parts.
Let's take it first.
In decision making, people areinterviewing and trying to
decide what it is that they wantto do.
I think if you're interviewing,you're at the point you've
already decided what specialtyyou want to be involved.
I think it's important, whenyou're deciding where to go,
that you consider a number offactors.
Number one is that you want tomake sure that they have some
experience dealing with adiverse group of people who
(06:10):
happen to be something otherthan the patients.
There are many traininginstitutions where you go to,
and we are people of color, arethe people that are used to
teach the doctors how to bedoctors most, but many of the
people in the training programsare not represented in that
regard, and so I think it'simportant to make sure that they
are comfortable with that andthey are prepared to train you
(06:32):
and you're not in oddity.
Remember when I was in awarehouse it was a time when
they were really pushingdiversity and someone came to
visit us from the University ofVermont and they promised a full
ride for anyone that wanted tocome to the University of
Vermont, and medical school wasexpensive, and I did give us
some consideration.
But one of the things I thoughtabout was that I would be one
(06:52):
of only a few people like myself, if any others, and it would
have been a very differenttraining experience Would the
patients have been comfortablewith, would the doctors be
comfortable with?
So those are things that's oneimportant question to ask while
you're going through it.
Secondly, is that always beearly?
I know it sounds like a verysmall point, but it is a very
(07:14):
large point.
Many times we take small thingsfor granted.
Well, I'm qualified.
If I'm five minutes late, it'sno big deal.
When I was at Morehouse, theywould say being there 10 minutes
early is being on time.
Being there on time is beinglate, and I thought that was a
very important point.
You want to be ready when theyare ready.
You want to interview early inthe cycle if possible.
(07:34):
They have yet to have gonethrough a lot of other people
before you.
Many of the spots have alreadybeen filled in people's minds.
They have their lists formedalready and you might be someone
trying to fill a final slot andyou may be competing with a lot
of other people.
So it's important to try to beearly, physically early to your
interviews.
You want to make sure that youapply early and then you want to
(07:57):
be able to carry yourself in aconfident manner.
It doesn't mean beingbraggadocious, but people should
feel like there's a certainconfidence that you have when
you speak.
You're confident about thethings that you've done and your
accomplishments.
Everyone has small blemishes ontheir resume somewhere or maybe
some experiences that didn't goquite as well.
(08:19):
I mean, you just need to behonest about it.
You need to be very good athaving eye-to-eye contact that
can be off-putting for people.
You need to have erect posture.
These things sound really small, like I'm talking about
finishing school and I'm not mydaughter, who's in medical
school right now, in her firstyear at the University of
Pennsylvania, and I've tried todiscuss some of these things
with her.
(08:39):
Your presence, your physicalpresence, your attire, making
sure it's immaculate andappropriate for the
circumstances that you're in.
I heard someone say one timewhen I was in college that they
had gone off to a corporate job.
They had left Clark College inAtlanta and gone off to a
(08:59):
corporate job.
They were getting feedback fromtheir bosses that their
clothing was different, he says.
The person said I like to wearbrighter colors and these sorts
of things.
That's just me.
I have to get used to it.
That's not the impressionyou're trying to make.
The impression you're trying tomake is that I think of it,
that you want to go in there andall these things want to be in
place such that they're notdistractions.
Being late is a distraction.
(09:20):
Not being dressed appropriatelyis a distraction.
Coming at the end of a sessionis a distraction.
Not holding eye contact Notthat you want to stare down, but
you should have the ability tohold eye contact and to be
confident.
It doesn't mean that you aretrying to intimidate someone,
but you want to be sure that youdon't feel like there's
anything that they are bringingto the table that intimidates
(09:41):
you.
Those are some of the things Iwould recommend.
Have a range of places you'reapplying.
Sometimes people are applyingto just a very limited number of
places.
Apply to 10, 12.
Spread them out regionally.
Yes, you may want to be inWashington DC, you may want to
be in Los Angeles, but it maynot be possible that you can be
in those places during thatparticular time of your life.
(10:03):
Be prepared to live in placesthat may not be the final place
you're living.
You're not choosing your finaldestination.
You're choosing a place fortraining.
The most important thing isthat you get there and you get
good training and then you canmake a decision at that point.
For others, it's important thatyou have to be around family
and things like that.
If you're planning to be aphysician, you have to be
prepared to move around and bein places that may not be as
(10:24):
comfortable to you as you mightwant them to be.
I went to Chicago for my firstresidency in pediatrics.
I've never lived in a placethat cold before.
Frankly, it was an amazingexperience.
I loved it.
I loved Chicago.
I literally cry when I loveChicago.
I enjoy it there that much.
It was a very cold place.
It was cold most of the year.
I hadn't been in sub-zerotemperatures before.
(10:46):
I didn't have clothing for that.
Learning to be indoors a lot itwas something that was a very
pleasurable time.
I enjoyed it.
It was hard work.
I worked very hard.
Those days when you wereresident you could easily be
there.
It was nothing to be there 30to 34 hours.
I don't think they do thatquite anymore, which is a good
thing.
I wish they hadn't done it then.
(11:07):
But yes, you are going to beprepared to work hard.
The other thing I'll say forpeople too and I was having this
conversation with my daughterand she's having a little FOMO
about her friends and the thingsthey're doing who are not in
medicine You're making adecision about a career that's
very demanding but veryrewarding.
As I was reminding her, shewill never want for a job.
(11:27):
She will always have employment.
She's desired everywhere thatthey have need, in whatever
specialty she chooses.
That's something that's veryimportant to people who can't
imagine what it's like.
No matter what the economy is,you're going to have jobs.
You will have a good income,not an average income a very
good income.
You'll be able to do things andafford things in ways that
(11:48):
others could only dream of.
So, yes, it is a hard thing.
It's supposed to be hard.
It's supposed to be arduous andgrueling, because you're going
to be making decisions aboutpeople's lives that literally
can cause people their lives,depending on what your special
is.
So the idea that it might behard, you might be working more
than you think you should that'spart of the process, and you
(12:09):
would expect your doctor to dothe same thing when you showed
up at someplace If you foundthis person hit and trained as
well as everyone else whotrained.
That's not the doctor you want.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Absolutely.
You said so many great thingsthere about timeliness and
confidence and I think, even inthis era where there are virtual
interviews still happening Ithink people may often take that
for granted that you still needto come through the screen with
confidence, you still need tobe attentive, you still need to
seem like you're interested andengaged in what's happening.
(12:41):
So that's great advice abouttimeliness, confidence, knowing
that you're going to make somesacrifices along the way,
whether that be your locationthat you live in, or missing out
on some things with yourfriends or family.
I do think, like you said, whenyou lived in Chicago, I did my
residency in Atlanta right, soyou do have the opportunity to
(13:02):
move around and it is exciting,which is definitely a journey
that everyone else isn'tnecessarily familiar with.
They may go to college and thenthey may go one other place,
but we truly do move every fewyears for the time we're in
training.
So thank you for sharing whatyour experience was like during
your journey.
Hello everyone, are you enjoyingthe episode so far this week?
(13:25):
Well, I'm excited to announcethat this week's episode is
sponsored by the BeMed appthat's right, you heard it the
BlackMed Connect app.
This app will be for any Blackor Brown pre-medical students,
medical students, residents,fellows and attendings, even for
institutions.
We're in the process ofdeveloping our app and we wanted
(13:46):
to share it with you now, so ifyou're interested in receiving
updates on when the BeMed appwill be available to the world,
then head on over tobemedconnectcom slash app APP
and join the waitlist.
Let's jump right back into theepisode.
I wanted to ask kind of tofollow up.
(14:07):
You said you did pediatrics fora while, but now you're a
dermatologist.
I'd love to hear whatencouraged you or what things
were going on to make you wantto pursue dermatology when you
were already a pediatrician, andwhat was that transition like
for you?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think it's a very good question.
I'm going to say one thing andfollow up to it.
I forgot to add one more thing.
When you go for the interviews,be sure you read about the
people who are going to be inthe department.
Make sure you know a little bitabout their research, they're a
little bit about theirpublications, so that when they
ask a question such as whatquestions can I answer for you,
(14:44):
which comes up inevitably,they'll ask a few and then they
want to see if you have someinterest.
Every program should.
You will not say it directly,but you should show an interest
in every place that you go,because you could end up in any
of those places.
So be sure that you've donesome research on some of the
people and just how.
I went from pediatricdermatology.
So when I was in medical school, I went through a number of
(15:04):
specialty during my training andI liked some of them, but I had
to be honest, I really enjoypediatrics.
It was the thing I enjoyed themost.
And subsequently I trained inChicago and I went on to become
a general pediatric doctor.
I practice in an underservedarea there in Chicago and I
practice in underserved area inCincinnati, ohio, and one of the
(15:26):
things I realized is that Iprobably have more of a
specialist personality than ageneralist.
There are many topics that youdeal with in the primary care
fields which can be challenging.
I think one of the moredifficult things I found was
dealing with children and childabuse.
You would see perpetrators,you'd see beaten children, you'd
see all sorts of circumstancesthat I had to admit was
(15:48):
something that I didn't think Icould spend an entire career
doing.
Secondly, I think I enjoyed theidea of dermatology more than I
realized.
My last month of training inpediatrics I had an opportunity
to go and train with a wonderfulor at least learn from a
wonderful woman in Chicago whowas one of the premier pediatric
dermatologists in the country,named Amy Paller, and so I
(16:11):
trained that last month.
My wife was a doctor, she wasat that hospital and she had
told me about this woman and Ireally enjoyed the month I spent
there.
I thought to myself that'ssomething really I could do and
thought about it.
So, as my wife was training inher subspecialty, pediatric
emergency medicine, I washelping to raise a child and
working in general pediatricsand I decided on a lark at the
(16:32):
encouragement of one of ourlocal doctors here who since
retired, named Neil prose.
He suggested I apply.
So I applied to a number ofplaces and I got a few
interviews.
It's harder to go back totraining, especially after
you've already started inmedicine, so they were taking me
as one of the older applicants,but I applied to a number of
programs.
I had some interviews, I wassignaled that I had the
(16:55):
possibility of going to threedifferent places and I ranked
back places and came to WakeForest Baptist Hospital and
trained with some wonderfulpeople there and I really
enjoyed your methodology.
I am a very visual person.
I like the arts, I like sports,I like things I can see.
My vision is my strongest senseand so I have a pretty good
(17:18):
memory for memorizing things inregards to pictures and patterns
, far better than I expected,better than most of the
residents.
So I really enjoyed that part.
So practicing medicine to me isvery much fun.
I enjoyed a great deal, but Itransitioned and afterwards I
decided that we were here inNorth Carolina and I could have
chosen many places to go.
(17:39):
We decided to stay.
My wife at the time was workingat Duke hospital and we had two
children at that point and oneof them was in school, I decided
just to stay here in NorthCarolina, but I was prepared to
move to another place if weneeded, and I've been here now.
Practiced 26 plus years.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Fantastic, fantastic, I mean.
You said so much.
I want to kind of ask a fewfollow up questions and one
thing that came to mind for mewas you mentioned that you knew
that your strength was being avisual learner, and I think
people may take that for granted, like if you know that you are
good with your hands, if youknow that you enjoy being around
(18:17):
a certain population, likeathletes or the elderly, like
those are things that should gointo consideration when you
consider what specialties youpursue, because those strengths
will only help you throughoutyour career.
So thank you for sharing eventhat insight into what you were
good at, really even kind ofhelp you transition into
dermatology.
And another thing you broughtup that I love that you've said
(18:41):
multiple times.
You've talked about family alot.
You've talked about yourdaughter in medicine now and
your wife was also a physician.
How did you balance being ahusband and a father during your
time in training and evenbeyond once you started in
practice?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's a great point.
I think you really hit uponsomething that I was hoping to
be able to mention.
So, as a general pediatrician,when it was just my wife and I,
we could keep any sort of hourswe wanted.
At that time there were nohospitalists and so you went
round on your own patients inthe hospital, so that meant
Saturday mornings.
I was getting up Sunday morning, so I was getting up and going
to see people in the hospitaland that was great.
(19:18):
Well, it was just the wife andI, and then we had a baby and
then it became more challenging.
So there were times I would, mywife would be working in the ER
and I would be taking care of achild and I would bring the
child and leave them at thenurses station while I went in
and rounded on some patients andthat come back and take the
baby and we had back home and Irealized that for the life I
(19:39):
wanted, I needed to probably dosomething slightly different.
I think one of the mostimportant points I've been
talking to this with my daughteris that when you go through
medical school, you are goingthrough it at a time, for the
most part, that you're about.
You have about as muchindependence and lack of
responsibility as you will everhave in your life ever.
And you make decisions basedsometimes upon the moment you
(20:01):
are.
Now.
People say I really enjoyworking with the surgeon.
Wait, that was so much fun.
Yes, the question is not somuch what do you like?
You can like a lot of things.
The question is, how do youwant to live?
What do you see your life like?
You mentioned the family.
It's important for me to beable to provide 9 to 5 type of
care for my children as we weregrowing up.
(20:22):
My wife is a pediatric nursingnurse.
She's very smart, veryaccomplished and her hours are
different.
There's no hour that's sacred.
There's no day that's sacredthat she couldn't work.
During the time that we weregoing through our career I had
no problems being married toanother professional person.
It is difficult.
Sometimes we have two doctorsin the house where people have
(20:44):
demands on their careers Sorryenough.
Sometimes with one doctor, butwe have two, sometimes as a
surgeon.
So I decided I wanted to choosea career after I had been in
pediatrics and decided I neededto do something that was going
to make me the more stableperson at home.
I'm home after five and I'm nothome on week.
I'm not away on weekends andI'm home during holidays, so I
was the more stable person interms of the hours, but I
(21:06):
thought we made a great teamtogether, contributing to things
that they did.
I have a certain way about meand my wife has a certain way,
until we both brought somethingto the table and we raised three
children.
But yes, those are veryimportant things.
You have to be honest aboutwhat it is.
You say look, I want to havethree children, I want to be a
cardiothoracic surgeon or acardiologist.
Be clear what that life isreally like.
(21:27):
It's fun and interesting.
When you're the medical studentand you're sitting there
watching someone else dosomething, it seems very
interesting.
What is it like when you'rethere 21 straight days?
You're rounding on patients allthe time?
I remember watching one of thepediatric surgeons train at
Children's Hospital inPhiladelphia.
In fact, he's in practice herelocally and he would see his
(21:48):
children awake once everymorning between the hours of
about nine to 10, when his wifeexcuse me would bring the
children in to see him.
Otherwise he would go veryearly in the morning.
He'd come home very late.
On the nights he didn't stay inthe hospital and that was a
debt.
He was doing that for months,years, and that was not a life I
could imagine.
Now, granted, it is a tremendousfeel and very necessary, but
(22:09):
you have to be prepared to makesome decisions like that and all
your family's going to be atthe beach and you have to work,
not just in training, but likethat for the rest of your life.
That has great impact upon youand has an impact on the people
around you and the families thatyou haven't even formed yet.
You have to be very honestabout what it is that you want.
Just liking something as aspecialty should not be enough
(22:30):
for you to decide to go into it.
You're going to decide.
Can you live that type of life?
There are some specialties thathave nearly 100% divorce rate,
cardiology being one andsomebody other surgical
specialties.
That's something that you haveto be very clear about.
If you plan to be single forthe rest of your life, it really
doesn't matter.
If you plan to have asignificant other, perhaps some
children, maybe you have someresponsibilities, like taking
(22:50):
care of an elderly parent That'dbe clear about what your feel
will allow you to do.
Otherwise, your torn and livedirections in.
It makes you unhappy at workand unhappy at home.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
That's such great advice and I really think
students need to hear that intrainees and even early career
faculty like myself, because Ithink we are making decisions a
lot of time based on being verycareer focused, being very
driven individuals, thinkingabout what we can accomplish and
not always taking into accountwhen life will happen.
So you really really appreciateyou sharing that advice with
(23:23):
our audience as well.
We hope you enjoyed part one ofthe episode with Dr Jeffrey
Scales, dermatologist andfounder of the North Carolina
Center for Dermatology.
We had an amazing conversationabout his journey through
medicine, the importance offamily and so much more.
Stick around for our episodenext week, part two, where we'll
(23:46):
learn a little more about whatit takes to run a practice, as
well as explore what skin canceris all about.
Don't forget to like this video.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that thumbs up
.
Also, don't forget to subscribeto our channel if you're
watching us on YouTube, orfollow us and listen on all
podcast platforms.
(24:07):
We appreciate Dr Scales takingtime to have this discussion and
stick around and come back nextweek for part two of the
episode.
Until next time, alwaysremember to dream without limits
.
Bye.
Have you ever considered owning your own
practice?
Or what about transitioningfrom one career field to another
?
On today's episode of theBlackMed Connect podcast, I had
the fantastic opportunity tointerview Dr Jeffrey Scales, a
dermatologist and the founder ofthe North Carolina Center for
dermatology in Durham, northCarolina.
(00:20):
We had an amazing conversationtalking about his journey
through medicine and as afounder of a practice and owner
of a practice, and so much more.
Let's jump right into theepisode.
Roll the music.
Hi everyone.
(00:45):
Welcome back to the BlackMedConnect podcast, affectionately
known as the Be man podcast,where we share inspiring stories
of black physicians andphysicians in training at the
intersection of medicine,culture and innovation.
We're excited to be here thisevening.
I have an amazing guest with me.
His name is Dr Jeffrey Scalesand we want to welcome you on to
(01:08):
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thank you for having me, Dr Weiss.
It's a real pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Absolutely so, dr Scales, if you could share a
little bit more about whatinspired you to pursue medicine,
and will work our way all theway up to you being the owner
and founder of the NorthCarolina Center for Dermatology.
Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, sounds great.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, I was born in North Carolina, I was raised in
the Washington DC area and mymother was a nurse, an RN, that
worked in several hospitals, butI remember her most fondly
working at Howard UniversityHospital and in that role she
worked with a lot of blackphysicians, including her boss,
who was a pediatrician.
And it turns out that her, theboss's husband, was the first
(01:54):
black pediatric surgeon in theworld.
As far as I know, he wastrained at Children's Hospital.
But anyway, I got to know him,got to know his son who was one
of my best friends, chuck Rosser, and his mother, and I really
enjoyed the conversation theyhad about medicine.
I enjoyed the stories my motherwould come home with and there
was a certain deference inreverence she had about the
(02:15):
doctors and the work that theydid in the hospital and I
remember thinking this is reallysounds like a great profession,
sounds like something I'd bevery interested in.
The odd thing was well, I'm oneof those people I was growing
up where if someone was sick Iwouldn't stay away from them.
You know, if they had some cutin your arm, I'm trying to stay
away.
If you had ever told me I wouldend up as a physician, I would
have said no, that would not bewhat I'd end up.
I wouldn't be a race car driveror an architect.
(02:35):
But it turns out that medicinewas my calling.
So I was fortunate enough tofinish high school there in
Bethesda, maryland.
I went to Morehouse College inAtlanta many years ago More than
I'd like to remember at thispoint and I had the opportunity
there to get exposed to somereally sharp people, some really
motivated and intelligent andfocused men in ways that black
(03:00):
men in particular had not beenin a setting like that before.
It really was a veryinspirational time for me during
my life.
It really helped forge me andit worked hard.
I did well and made Phi BetaKappa and I was able to go to
medical school.
I was accepted to a number ofmedical schools, but I chose to
go to an Ivy League medicalschool Mainly because I wanted
(03:22):
to see the challenge.
People asked me why I shouldchoose a medical school.
You could have gone to Howardor some other place.
I was admitted to all thoseplaces, but I decided I wanted
to try the challenge.
So I went and it was really abig change.
It was quite a cultural changefrom Morehouse College in
Atlanta to the Ivy League therein Philadelphia, pennsylvania.
(03:43):
But it was good learningexperience.
I went on to train inpediatrics and practice that for
a while and then finallydermatology.
It was the inspiration of thosepeople around me, particularly
my mother, that took me down thepath to medicine.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's fantastic.
It's interesting and it'salways exciting to hear how
people get started along thejourney.
So when you mentioned youweren't interested before,
didn't really want to be aroundsick people, was it your time at
Morehouse that reallysolidified that you wanted to do
medicine or did you startleaning towards it?
What really led you to go fromnot really thinking medicine to
(04:18):
maybe?
This is for me.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Actually it's probably more when I was in
middle school that I decided Iwanted to do.
That had to do with the factthat my mother took me into the
hospital and exposed me to someof the other doctors.
I always found them to be verydisciplined and honorable men,
very professional.
I really like the way theycarry themselves, the work they
were doing helping children andhelping many people there in the
(04:42):
area.
It's a predominantly blackinstitution and I really
appreciate seeing so many peopledoing such positive things.
So at that point I decided Iwanted to be a doctor.
There were a few things alongthe way that perhaps got my
attention a bit.
There's some things now that Ithink is very interesting.
If these fields had beenavailable then I might have
(05:02):
considered the things likesupply chain management and big
data analysis and cybersecurity.
Those things didn't exist atthe time I was going through,
but still I think I still wouldhave chosen medicine and I've
been very happy with it.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That's fantastic.
So you mentioned your time atMorehouse and then getting into
the Ivy Leagues.
Right now we're in that seasonfor trainees who are thinking
about or either in theirinterview seasons or about to
start, what advice would youpossibly give?
You went through it sounds likefor a pediatric.
So what advice would you giveearly on to a trainee who's
(05:38):
working their way through theinterview trail?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Is this a person that's finishing medical school
and heading into a residency?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, okay, so I'll take it in two parts.
Let's take it first.
In decision making, people areinterviewing and trying to
decide what it is that they wantto do.
I think if you're interviewing,you're at the point you've
already decided what specialtyyou want to be involved.
I think it's important, whenyou're deciding where to go,
that you consider a number offactors.
Number one is that you want tomake sure that they have some
experience dealing with adiverse group of people who
(06:10):
happen to be something otherthan the patients.
There are many traininginstitutions where you go to,
and we are people of color, arethe people that are used to
teach the doctors how to bedoctors most, but many of the
people in the training programsare not represented in that
regard, and so I think it'simportant to make sure that they
are comfortable with that andthey are prepared to train you
(06:32):
and you're not in oddity.
Remember when I was in awarehouse it was a time when
they were really pushingdiversity and someone came to
visit us from the University ofVermont and they promised a full
ride for anyone that wanted tocome to the University of
Vermont, and medical school wasexpensive, and I did give us
some consideration.
But one of the things I thoughtabout was that I would be one
(06:52):
of only a few people like myself, if any others, and it would
have been a very differenttraining experience Would the
patients have been comfortablewith, would the doctors be
comfortable with?
So those are things that's oneimportant question to ask while
you're going through it.
Secondly, is that always beearly?
I know it sounds like a verysmall point, but it is a very
(07:14):
large point.
Many times we take small thingsfor granted.
Well, I'm qualified.
If I'm five minutes late, it'sno big deal.
When I was at Morehouse, theywould say being there 10 minutes
early is being on time.
Being there on time is beinglate, and I thought that was a
very important point.
You want to be ready when theyare ready.
You want to interview early inthe cycle if possible.
(07:34):
They have yet to have gonethrough a lot of other people
before you.
Many of the spots have alreadybeen filled in people's minds.
They have their lists formedalready and you might be someone
trying to fill a final slot andyou may be competing with a lot
of other people.
So it's important to try to beearly, physically early to your
interviews.
You want to make sure that youapply early and then you want to
(07:57):
be able to carry yourself in aconfident manner.
It doesn't mean beingbraggadocious, but people should
feel like there's a certainconfidence that you have when
you speak.
You're confident about thethings that you've done and your
accomplishments.
Everyone has small blemishes ontheir resume somewhere or maybe
some experiences that didn't goquite as well.
(08:19):
I mean, you just need to behonest about it.
You need to be very good athaving eye-to-eye contact that
can be off-putting for people.
You need to have erect posture.
These things sound really small, like I'm talking about
finishing school and I'm not mydaughter, who's in medical
school right now, in her firstyear at the University of
Pennsylvania, and I've tried todiscuss some of these things
with her.
(08:39):
Your presence, your physicalpresence, your attire, making
sure it's immaculate andappropriate for the
circumstances that you're in.
I heard someone say one timewhen I was in college that they
had gone off to a corporate job.
They had left Clark College inAtlanta and gone off to a
(08:59):
corporate job.
They were getting feedback fromtheir bosses that their
clothing was different, he says.
The person said I like to wearbrighter colors and these sorts
of things.
That's just me.
I have to get used to it.
That's not the impressionyou're trying to make.
The impression you're trying tomake is that I think of it,
that you want to go in there andall these things want to be in
place such that they're notdistractions.
Being late is a distraction.
(09:20):
Not being dressed appropriatelyis a distraction.
Coming at the end of a sessionis a distraction.
Not holding eye contact Notthat you want to stare down, but
you should have the ability tohold eye contact and to be
confident.
It doesn't mean that you aretrying to intimidate someone,
but you want to be sure that youdon't feel like there's
anything that they are bringingto the table that intimidates
(09:41):
you.
Those are some of the things Iwould recommend.
Have a range of places you'reapplying.
Sometimes people are applyingto just a very limited number of
places.
Apply to 10, 12.
Spread them out regionally.
Yes, you may want to be inWashington DC, you may want to
be in Los Angeles, but it maynot be possible that you can be
in those places during thatparticular time of your life.
(10:03):
Be prepared to live in placesthat may not be the final place
you're living.
You're not choosing your finaldestination.
You're choosing a place fortraining.
The most important thing isthat you get there and you get
good training and then you canmake a decision at that point.
For others, it's important thatyou have to be around family
and things like that.
If you're planning to be aphysician, you have to be
prepared to move around and bein places that may not be as
(10:24):
comfortable to you as you mightwant them to be.
I went to Chicago for my firstresidency in pediatrics.
I've never lived in a placethat cold before.
Frankly, it was an amazingexperience.
I loved it.
I loved Chicago.
I literally cry when I loveChicago.
I enjoy it there that much.
It was a very cold place.
It was cold most of the year.
I hadn't been in sub-zerotemperatures before.
(10:46):
I didn't have clothing for that.
Learning to be indoors a lot itwas something that was a very
pleasurable time.
I enjoyed it.
It was hard work.
I worked very hard.
Those days when you wereresident you could easily be
there.
It was nothing to be there 30to 34 hours.
I don't think they do thatquite anymore, which is a good
thing.
I wish they hadn't done it then.
(11:07):
But yes, you are going to beprepared to work hard.
The other thing I'll say forpeople too and I was having this
conversation with my daughterand she's having a little FOMO
about her friends and the thingsthey're doing who are not in
medicine You're making adecision about a career that's
very demanding but veryrewarding.
As I was reminding her, shewill never want for a job.
(11:27):
She will always have employment.
She's desired everywhere thatthey have need, in whatever
specialty she chooses.
That's something that's veryimportant to people who can't
imagine what it's like.
No matter what the economy is,you're going to have jobs.
You will have a good income,not an average income a very
good income.
You'll be able to do things andafford things in ways that
(11:48):
others could only dream of.
So, yes, it is a hard thing.
It's supposed to be hard.
It's supposed to be arduous andgrueling, because you're going
to be making decisions aboutpeople's lives that literally
can cause people their lives,depending on what your special
is.
So the idea that it might behard, you might be working more
than you think you should that'spart of the process, and you
(12:09):
would expect your doctor to dothe same thing when you showed
up at someplace If you foundthis person hit and trained as
well as everyone else whotrained.
That's not the doctor you want.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Absolutely.
You said so many great thingsthere about timeliness and
confidence and I think, even inthis era where there are virtual
interviews still happening Ithink people may often take that
for granted that you still needto come through the screen with
confidence, you still need tobe attentive, you still need to
seem like you're interested andengaged in what's happening.
(12:41):
So that's great advice abouttimeliness, confidence, knowing
that you're going to make somesacrifices along the way,
whether that be your locationthat you live in, or missing out
on some things with yourfriends or family.
I do think, like you said, whenyou lived in Chicago, I did my
residency in Atlanta right, soyou do have the opportunity to
(13:02):
move around and it is exciting,which is definitely a journey
that everyone else isn'tnecessarily familiar with.
They may go to college and thenthey may go one other place,
but we truly do move every fewyears for the time we're in
training.
So thank you for sharing whatyour experience was like during
your journey.
Hello everyone, are you enjoyingthe episode so far this week?
(13:25):
Well, I'm excited to announcethat this week's episode is
sponsored by the BeMed appthat's right, you heard it the
BlackMed Connect app.
This app will be for any Blackor Brown pre-medical students,
medical students, residents,fellows and attendings, even for
institutions.
We're in the process ofdeveloping our app and we wanted
(13:46):
to share it with you now, so ifyou're interested in receiving
updates on when the BeMed appwill be available to the world,
then head on over tobemedconnectcom slash app APP
and join the waitlist.
Let's jump right back into theepisode.
I wanted to ask kind of tofollow up.
(14:07):
You said you did pediatrics fora while, but now you're a
dermatologist.
I'd love to hear whatencouraged you or what things
were going on to make you wantto pursue dermatology when you
were already a pediatrician, andwhat was that transition like
for you?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think it's a very good question.
I'm going to say one thing andfollow up to it.
I forgot to add one more thing.
When you go for the interviews,be sure you read about the
people who are going to be inthe department.
Make sure you know a little bitabout their research, they're a
little bit about theirpublications, so that when they
ask a question such as whatquestions can I answer for you,
(14:44):
which comes up inevitably,they'll ask a few and then they
want to see if you have someinterest.
Every program should.
You will not say it directly,but you should show an interest
in every place that you go,because you could end up in any
of those places.
So be sure that you've donesome research on some of the
people and just how.
I went from pediatricdermatology.
So when I was in medical school, I went through a number of
(15:04):
specialty during my training andI liked some of them, but I had
to be honest, I really enjoypediatrics.
It was the thing I enjoyed themost.
And subsequently I trained inChicago and I went on to become
a general pediatric doctor.
I practice in an underservedarea there in Chicago and I
practice in underserved area inCincinnati, ohio, and one of the
(15:26):
things I realized is that Iprobably have more of a
specialist personality than ageneralist.
There are many topics that youdeal with in the primary care
fields which can be challenging.
I think one of the moredifficult things I found was
dealing with children and childabuse.
You would see perpetrators,you'd see beaten children, you'd
see all sorts of circumstancesthat I had to admit was
(15:48):
something that I didn't think Icould spend an entire career
doing.
Secondly, I think I enjoyed theidea of dermatology more than I
realized.
My last month of training inpediatrics I had an opportunity
to go and train with a wonderfulor at least learn from a
wonderful woman in Chicago whowas one of the premier pediatric
dermatologists in the country,named Amy Paller, and so I
(16:11):
trained that last month.
My wife was a doctor, she wasat that hospital and she had
told me about this woman and Ireally enjoyed the month I spent
there.
I thought to myself that'ssomething really I could do and
thought about it.
So, as my wife was training inher subspecialty, pediatric
emergency medicine, I washelping to raise a child and
working in general pediatricsand I decided on a lark at the
(16:32):
encouragement of one of ourlocal doctors here who since
retired, named Neil prose.
He suggested I apply.
So I applied to a number ofplaces and I got a few
interviews.
It's harder to go back totraining, especially after
you've already started inmedicine, so they were taking me
as one of the older applicants,but I applied to a number of
programs.
I had some interviews, I wassignaled that I had the
(16:55):
possibility of going to threedifferent places and I ranked
back places and came to WakeForest Baptist Hospital and
trained with some wonderfulpeople there and I really
enjoyed your methodology.
I am a very visual person.
I like the arts, I like sports,I like things I can see.
My vision is my strongest senseand so I have a pretty good
(17:18):
memory for memorizing things inregards to pictures and patterns
, far better than I expected,better than most of the
residents.
So I really enjoyed that part.
So practicing medicine to me isvery much fun.
I enjoyed a great deal, but Itransitioned and afterwards I
decided that we were here inNorth Carolina and I could have
chosen many places to go.
(17:39):
We decided to stay.
My wife at the time was workingat Duke hospital and we had two
children at that point and oneof them was in school, I decided
just to stay here in NorthCarolina, but I was prepared to
move to another place if weneeded, and I've been here now.
Practiced 26 plus years.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Fantastic, fantastic, I mean.
You said so much.
I want to kind of ask a fewfollow up questions and one
thing that came to mind for mewas you mentioned that you knew
that your strength was being avisual learner, and I think
people may take that for granted, like if you know that you are
good with your hands, if youknow that you enjoy being around
(18:17):
a certain population, likeathletes or the elderly, like
those are things that should gointo consideration when you
consider what specialties youpursue, because those strengths
will only help you throughoutyour career.
So thank you for sharing eventhat insight into what you were
good at, really even kind ofhelp you transition into
dermatology.
And another thing you broughtup that I love that you've said
(18:41):
multiple times.
You've talked about family alot.
You've talked about yourdaughter in medicine now and
your wife was also a physician.
How did you balance being ahusband and a father during your
time in training and evenbeyond once you started in
practice?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's a great point.
I think you really hit uponsomething that I was hoping to
be able to mention.
So, as a general pediatrician,when it was just my wife and I,
we could keep any sort of hourswe wanted.
At that time there were nohospitalists and so you went
round on your own patients inthe hospital, so that meant
Saturday mornings.
I was getting up Sunday morning, so I was getting up and going
to see people in the hospitaland that was great.
(19:18):
Well, it was just the wife andI, and then we had a baby and
then it became more challenging.
So there were times I would, mywife would be working in the ER
and I would be taking care of achild and I would bring the
child and leave them at thenurses station while I went in
and rounded on some patients andthat come back and take the
baby and we had back home and Irealized that for the life I
(19:39):
wanted, I needed to probably dosomething slightly different.
I think one of the mostimportant points I've been
talking to this with my daughteris that when you go through
medical school, you are goingthrough it at a time, for the
most part, that you're about.
You have about as muchindependence and lack of
responsibility as you will everhave in your life ever.
And you make decisions basedsometimes upon the moment you
(20:01):
are.
Now.
People say I really enjoyworking with the surgeon.
Wait, that was so much fun.
Yes, the question is not somuch what do you like?
You can like a lot of things.
The question is, how do youwant to live?
What do you see your life like?
You mentioned the family.
It's important for me to beable to provide 9 to 5 type of
care for my children as we weregrowing up.
(20:22):
My wife is a pediatric nursingnurse.
She's very smart, veryaccomplished and her hours are
different.
There's no hour that's sacred.
There's no day that's sacredthat she couldn't work.
During the time that we weregoing through our career I had
no problems being married toanother professional person.
It is difficult.
Sometimes we have two doctorsin the house where people have
(20:44):
demands on their careers Sorryenough.
Sometimes with one doctor, butwe have two, sometimes as a
surgeon.
So I decided I wanted to choosea career after I had been in
pediatrics and decided I neededto do something that was going
to make me the more stableperson at home.
I'm home after five and I'm nothome on week.
I'm not away on weekends andI'm home during holidays, so I
was the more stable person interms of the hours, but I
(21:06):
thought we made a great teamtogether, contributing to things
that they did.
I have a certain way about meand my wife has a certain way,
until we both brought somethingto the table and we raised three
children.
But yes, those are veryimportant things.
You have to be honest aboutwhat it is.
You say look, I want to havethree children, I want to be a
cardiothoracic surgeon or acardiologist.
Be clear what that life isreally like.
(21:27):
It's fun and interesting.
When you're the medical studentand you're sitting there
watching someone else dosomething, it seems very
interesting.
What is it like when you'rethere 21 straight days?
You're rounding on patients allthe time?
I remember watching one of thepediatric surgeons train at
Children's Hospital inPhiladelphia.
In fact, he's in practice herelocally and he would see his
(21:48):
children awake once everymorning between the hours of
about nine to 10, when his wifeexcuse me would bring the
children in to see him.
Otherwise he would go veryearly in the morning.
He'd come home very late.
On the nights he didn't stay inthe hospital and that was a
debt.
He was doing that for months,years, and that was not a life I
could imagine.
Now, granted, it is a tremendousfeel and very necessary, but
(22:09):
you have to be prepared to makesome decisions like that and all
your family's going to be atthe beach and you have to work,
not just in training, but likethat for the rest of your life.
That has great impact upon youand has an impact on the people
around you and the families thatyou haven't even formed yet.
You have to be very honestabout what it is that you want.
Just liking something as aspecialty should not be enough
(22:30):
for you to decide to go into it.
You're going to decide.
Can you live that type of life?
There are some specialties thathave nearly 100% divorce rate,
cardiology being one andsomebody other surgical
specialties.
That's something that you haveto be very clear about.
If you plan to be single forthe rest of your life, it really
doesn't matter.
If you plan to have asignificant other, perhaps some
children, maybe you have someresponsibilities, like taking
(22:50):
care of an elderly parent That'dbe clear about what your feel
will allow you to do.
Otherwise, your torn and livedirections in.
It makes you unhappy at workand unhappy at home.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
That's such great advice and I really think
students need to hear that intrainees and even early career
faculty like myself, because Ithink we are making decisions a
lot of time based on being verycareer focused, being very
driven individuals, thinkingabout what we can accomplish and
not always taking into accountwhen life will happen.
So you really really appreciateyou sharing that advice with
(23:23):
our audience as well.
We hope you enjoyed part one ofthe episode with Dr Jeffrey
Scales, dermatologist andfounder of the North Carolina
Center for Dermatology.
We had an amazing conversationabout his journey through
medicine, the importance offamily and so much more.
Stick around for our episodenext week, part two, where we'll
(23:46):
learn a little more about whatit takes to run a practice, as
well as explore what skin canceris all about.
Don't forget to like this video.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that thumbs up
.
Also, don't forget to subscribeto our channel if you're
watching us on YouTube, orfollow us and listen on all
podcast platforms.
(24:07):
We appreciate Dr Scales takingtime to have this discussion and
stick around and come back nextweek for part two of the
episode.
Until next time, alwaysremember to dream without limits
.
Bye.
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