Joey Killingsworth talks about his band Joecephus & the George Jonestown Massacre and much more

Mike McCarthy interviews Joey Killingsworth and gets Joey's take on many rock genres. Joey, son of Rockabilly Hall of Famer Bo Jack Killingsworth, starts it off by disputing that Eddie Bond ever told Elvis to keep driving a truck. The free wheeling podcast covers Joey's experiences with Black Oak Arkansas, Jello Biafra and Black Flag.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yeah, really?

(00:01):
That's when whenever people talk about the Memphis history,
I'm always like, Eddie Bond show was outlasted all them.
Well, wait a minute.
You mean on radio or TV?
No, TV.
Local on channel?
It was, at first it was 3, 5, or 13 or something.
Because the first, I guess it was a 15 minute show
in the mornings.
And I guess Elvis used to watch it
and all this kind of stuff.
Ha ha.

(00:21):
You think so?
I thought he hated Eddie Bond.
No.
No?
That's the whole rumor about Eddie Bond
being the guy to tell him to go drive a truck.
That never happened.
Somebody else told him.
You're joking.
How did that get attached to Eddie?
Oh, no.
He's good.
He's going to blow up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You need to fire him.
So Eddie fired him.
But then when he started blowing up, they're like, hey,

(00:43):
you need to get that Elvis kid back in.
And he was like, that's shit.
So you're talking about that?
You done blew it.
You had me firing.
There's no coming back from that.
Hey, this is Dennis Black with the Black and Wyatt Records

(01:05):
podcast.
Today, we have filmmaker and sculptor Mike McCarthy
talking with multi-talented Joey Killingsworth of the George
Jonestown Massacre, a band that came out of Memphis
and tours just about everywhere.
In today's podcast, Joey talks about his connections
with his father, Bojack, Eddie Bond, Thor, Black Flag,

(01:31):
Jello Biafra, the birthday party, W.S. Holland, MC5,
the Stooges, Alice Cooper, and even Barbara Mandrell.
Joey also provided rare photos that
were used in the Black and Wyatt reissue of the 1963 Savad
Barry's Rock and Roll single.

(01:53):
We're going to start the podcast off with Eddie Bond and Joey's
father, Bojack, performing Memphis, Tennessee.

(02:30):
And he rode it on the wall
Distance information more than that I cannot have
Only that I'm a certain that all upon me had
Gromis on the south side, high upon the red
Just a half a mile from the Mississippi bridge

(03:21):
Oh, have me information, get in touch with my Marie
She's the only one who'd call me here from Memphis, Tennessee
We were pulled apart because her mom did not agree
And pulled apart our happy home in Memphis, Tennessee
I'm a woman, I'm a woman, I'm a woman, I'm a woman

(03:49):
Joey Killingsworth
Yes, that's it
How the hell do you get a name like that?
Man, the full name is as country as you can get Bobby Joe Killingsworth the second
Country and metal
You should have been in prison already
Actually I should have went with, again with, like that's country and metal, it ties it all together
You've never killed anyone have you?

(04:10):
No, with the names that have
With a name like that
Off the record my dad got some crazy stories about his with Eddie Bond and all them guys
Well that's why we're here
Dennis has got some Eddie Bond stories
Oh no shit
Don't have a mic on Dennis though
He's like basically an uncle, he was around from when I was born basically

(04:33):
My dad was playing with him since 68 and I was born in 71
So from me being born he was around
Wow, so he was like your uncle
I'd always see him and he'd start singing that song
Hey Joe, where'd you get that bearded girl?
Any time I seen him, that first thing he'd say
Hey Joe, where'd you get that bearded girl?
Whatever the song is
I saw him at the Western State Clowns once

(04:55):
In the late 90s and
Saw him at
What's the name of the Mexican, the Ponchos
Where the Starbucks is now at McLean and Union
Saw him there and then I saw him at Ponderosa Stomp
I guess when the hurricane came through and it got relocated to Memphis
It might remember that right

(05:16):
So that's weird that I've seen Eddie Bond that many times
I started playing with him like 99
Cause I didn't like country
I guess I was trying to get to play country and I hated it
Because it was too produced
I was here and was just barberman drill at the house
That kind of stuff
And I liked the heavy stuff
So I was like, my dad come home
I got 100 bucks for 30 minutes
I ain't selling out

(05:38):
I got free beer
And then when I started getting in the country
And started hearing cash and digging back
And paycheck and all that stuff
Then he's like, him and Eddie both
You could have been on the show
You could have met, was it Ernest Tubb
And all these people
And one thing I do regret is he asked me to play the Coliseum
He led the Grand Ole Opry Band
When they had paycheck

(06:00):
And I think Jester Timberlake sang there when he was like 12
But my dad led the band
It's Hank Thompson, Johnny Paycheck
And he asked me to play guitar
And I said, no, I ain't selling out
And then that's the one I regret is Johnny Paycheck
Wait, how old were you?
16, 17
So you're a prodigy of sorts
I got into country
I got into country probably like late 90s

(06:23):
And then it started kind of really loving the Ernest Tubb
And digging back into the whole thing
Carter family and stuff like that
Yeah, but all the Barber Mandrill and the 80s flashy stuff
Well, when you say Barber Mandrill
I think about the NBC TV show and the Sisters
Yes, so that would be on at the house
And I'm like, eh, and I'd go with that
They were sort of the Charlie's Angels of country music
Yes, I can see that

(06:45):
The three sisters
And that was very popular, yeah
So what was the name of your dad's band that was playing with Eddie?
They were called Eddie Bond and the Stompers
And he was like the side guy to Eddie
Eddie's since 68
And he was like the right-hand guy
He was Cousin Bojack
And wore like crazy overalls and a hat
And then when they

(07:06):
Like Speck Rhodes would or something?
Not sure who that is, but probably the same thing
Well, he was on He-Ha and he did a circuit
He's got to be the funny guy
But then I guess they did that
And then it picked back up in the 80s
And then ran all the way through the mid-late 90s on Fox Channel
The Eddie Bond show
That's news to me, did you know about that Dennis?
Yeah, it was

(07:28):
That's when people talk about the Memphis history
I'm always like Eddie Bond show was outlasted all the time
Well, wait a minute, you mean on radio or TV?
No TV
Local on channel?
It was, at first it was 3, 5 or 13 or something
Because at first I guess it was a 15 minute show in the mornings
And I guess Elvis used to watch it
And Elvis used to watch it and all this kind of stuff
You think so?

(07:49):
I thought he hated Eddie Bond
No
That's a whole rumor about Eddie Bond being the guy to tell him to go drive a truck
That never happened
Somebody else told him
How did that get attached to Eddie?
Oh no, he's good
He's going to blow up
You need to fire him, so Eddie fired him
But then when he started blowing up

(08:10):
They're like, hey, you need to get that Elvis kid back in
He was like, that's shit
You didn't blow it
You had me firing me
There's no coming back from that
Are you talking about the Clearpool Eagles Nest days?
I'm not sure, I just always heard that story
But I never really asked where it was
Well, I just came off a tour
Bus tour with a bunch of folks
Telling them, showing them around Memphis

(08:31):
Of course you can't go out down Lamar very far
To do all this esoteric stuff
But the Eagles Nest was at Winchester and Lamar
And they tore it down about a month ago
I mean, it's been deserted and ramshacked for years
It was the Americana Club
Back in the 80s, Pogos, the punk rock club
Was next to it for a while
I never familiar with that
Pogos Club, well, the Gogo's played there
999 played there from England

(08:54):
I wasn't living here then
And of course missed all that by a year or so
The Eagles Nest, July 1954
Elvis records That's All Right
Then because of the success on Red Hot and Blue
He records Blue Moon of Kentucky
A few days later for the B side
Then he goes to the Eagles Nest with Eddie Bond
And he performs eight shows
He doesn't get paid, Sam drives him out there
That might have been the place in

(09:16):
And he ends the month of July 1954
By performing at the Shell in the Pink
The Basle-Earman look
That's when he kind of blew up
Everybody's like, you need to get the thing back
And he's like, too late
My dad went to school with Buford Pusser
And was friends with him
And introduced Buford to Eddie
And then Eddie made the Buford Pusser records
And that led to the movies and all that

(09:37):
Well, did your dad play on Eddie's records?
I'm not sure what all he's played on
I know he's played on some
Like there's one, I bought it at Shangri-La
Live at the, I've been live at the Steakhouse Lounge
Or something like that
And he's on it
Wait, live at the Steakhouse Lounge
What?
It's a record?
It's some record

(09:59):
I'll send you a picture of it when I look it up
Because I bought my dad one at Shangri-La
And then I found me one, I was like, there's one more
And I got it live somewhere
But it's Eddie and it's my dad
And Wilford Ray and some other people
If you find another one, get it for me
And my dad has one single he put out
But then he's like, yeah, I randomly just played on drums
On this and that or guitar on this and that
He's got a poster where it's him and Eddie Bond

(10:21):
And Webb Pierce all doing the show together
And I think it was like a quarter to get into
Somebody gave him one of his buddies that was at the show
Because at the time he's like, I was as famous
All these people were on the show, I didn't care
But at that time, you know, there's only three channels
Right
But one thing he does say he regrets is one
Because he was buddies with Eddie and Jackie Fargo
They're tight
My dad would bartend with Jackie Fargo

(10:42):
And then one night they call from Graceland
And they're like, Jackie, come hang out at Graceland
We're having a party
Bring your bartender
Because Jackie's like, hey, I'm hanging out with my bartender
We're just hanging out here
And he's like, hey, bring your bartender
And come on down to Graceland, we're having a party
And that's the one thing he goes, I regret
Have we even said your dad's name?
Because of Bojack

(11:04):
Well, he goes by just Bojack now
But what's his real name?
Bobby Killingsworth
Okay, now what did his father do?
He was a cop in Memphis
He was one of the group that helped catch Machine Gun Kelly
Down on Beale Street
I think he took out a couple of people or something
I don't know, there's all kinds of shorts
Machine Gun Kelly never killed anybody
No, I'm talking about my grandkids

(11:25):
And the bad guys
Okay, are we going to get around to talking about it?
I didn't know where you started, Jen, okay
The past is intriguing, though, especially when the person, you know,
I'm talking to is so connected to the past
My first show was playing drums with my dad when I was 15
Because it's simple stuff
So my first show ever was 15
Back in Jumping Jean Sivins
And Carrie Lewis when she was pregnant

(11:47):
With whatever son she had then
Okay
Like I told you, we're on tour with Thor
The 80s metal guy who made Rock and Roll Nightmare
We're dropping right down in the middle of this now
Well, this ties into that because we
Before our show at the whiskey in 2020
Which was the last show at the whiskey
Before a close down for the pandemic
Did it ever reopen?

(12:09):
Yeah, we just played there a couple of weeks ago
Yeah, it opened up
But that night we went to the rainbow
Me, Thor, my band
And who's your band at the time?
That was a shit, who was it?
Brian Costner and David Wade
But we're at a band
Well, what's the name of the band?
It's always just this stuff
Okay, so it's always, okay

(12:30):
With the touring
And can you describe Thor real quick like how he looks?
He's a big muscle band guy
He got a start in Las Vegas
He was like on a gong show and stuff like that
I believe back in the day
His weight lifter came up with Schwarzenegger
And Lou Frigno
And his shows he'd been still
Was he in pumping iron?
He's not pumping iron but he's a weight lifter dude

(12:52):
And he would have been still and blipped
Airbags and stuff like that blew up
Okay, so you're at the rainbow with this guy?
So we're hanging out a table that's basically facing us
It's people from England
Can you take a picture of us because we're playing the whiskey with this guy tonight
We're hyped, can you take a picture?
And they're like sure and we're like
Like you look familiar and we're like
We just got a movie called I'm Thor

(13:14):
Documentary on him about Netflix on Netflix
And they're like where are you from?
They're like oh big star
And it all went to Memphis
Stacks, Memphis
So you played that last show March 2020
You have no idea that
We actually went, we did the whiskey
And that's because we played Pandemic Star
That happened and I think we played Denver with him
And he would fly in to meet us at shows

(13:35):
Then by the time we did some more on shows
And got to the whiskey he'll fly in to meet us
We did the whiskey last show there and it closed
And then we went to Vegas
And we had a little pie, evil conneval themed pizza place
And we had a day off the next day
We were sitting there going well
This is getting bad
Everything's closing down
And me and the drummer David Wade
They start closing down in casinos

(13:57):
We are fucked
And on the news tomorrow the casinos are closing
And so Thor's like I got to fly back to Canada
I may not be able to get my country
Then we thought we'd get locked into a city
You know get stuck somewhere
So we canceled the rest of the tour
We went to the three eight hour days home
Back to Memphis from Vegas
But since then since the pandemic let off
We done been to West Coast like two more times

(14:18):
And East Coast, Florida
A couple more trips to Texas
This was Josephus
Yeah, we're always just touring
I think that might be a good cue to play a song right
Sure, oh I don't even remember what I'll send you
I'll prescription savior

(14:55):
I was a mess like nothing you have seen
Until I found out about Benz O'Donnell's a pain
Now I am steady and ready to believe
And my insurance cards my ace up my sleeve
Well I found sweet Jesus when I lost my mind

(15:17):
I once was decided now I am blind
And anyone say that I ain't had my fill
I found my savior in a prescription pill
I've been such an anxious young man for so long

(15:40):
Stress made me nervous, my nerves not so strong
I always felt like I was ready to break
Until I found the answer the drug companies make
Well I found sweet Jesus when I lost my mind
I once was decided now I am blind

(16:01):
And anyone say that I ain't had my fill
I found my savior in a prescription pill

(16:34):
I found my savior in a prescription pill
I found my savior in a prescription pill
Some people I know deal with trouble on their own
But all my problems pass while my memories gone

(16:57):
I can almost imagine a home in paradise
Well you don't have to swallow a pill, I just feel nice
Well I found sweet Jesus when I lost my mind
I once was decided now I am blind
And anyone say that I ain't had my fill

(17:18):
I found my savior in a prescription pill
I found my savior in a prescription pill

(17:53):
We had Mick Harvey from the birthday party
And Nick Cave's Bad Seeds singing 5 Minutes to Live
So everybody's like we didn't do the hits
We didn't do bring a fire in, we went deep cuts
And that worked in our advantage, we didn't know we needed this
So we just came out of this song and we just hit the record

(18:14):
So what are we talking about here?
We're talking about the first time we had a chance in the George Jones Town Massacre EP called 5 Minutes to Live
Do you remember when we had Holland come and we gave him a little award and gratitude while we were trying to raise money for the cash statue?
I believe so
And that was the first time he had ever been acknowledged in Memphis for playing with Johnny Cash

(18:37):
When he died I got the hook up and me and my dad went to the Ryman for the memorial they had in film for CMT that was 2 hours on TV, it was like a 5 hour thing
They didn't have WS there because I guess there was a lawsuit or something at the time because Marshall Grant was there because that had all been settled from their lawsuits
But so while WS was playing with a band at the Sheraton that night

(18:59):
Because we stayed at the Sheraton and we watched him and hung out
And I was like, hey WS I got tickets me and Bo going to go to the memorial at the Ryman and he's like, I did not even know about this
That's not a good conversation
He was a super nice guy
Yeah, I was running him a couple of times and very grateful that he wanted to come to Memphis because I think he kind of dismissed it

(19:27):
He spent the day with us because our drummer Dick Ladoo
Yeah, he's got this house overlooking the river and I just know when it's overlooking a lake and the outside has these different layers where it looks like an Ewok village
He's got a name overlooking a lake
Dick Ladoo

(19:48):
But so WS came in and he's like, what do you do? I know you didn't pay for this house counting to four playing drums
He's funny but he had he's, well he kept trying to sell us his boat or some trailers and shit or something he had van
That's what he's trying to sell us his bus
We had a bunch of pictures he brought he was showing us
And he goes, well this is me and Johnny we're playing for the president and over here's another one, let's play with the president

(20:13):
And I was like, what president?
Aw shit, I don't remember, we played for a couple of them
I was like, that's the coolest thing I'll ever hear
That's the most rock and roll line right there
So all roads lead back to Eddie Bond?
Well there Eddie I got to meet WS and we got to do shows playing with him and play with the original comments

(20:34):
All the Rockabilly guys through him met Paul Burleson
It seems to me like when you said you were a kid and you hated country and it was a slow understanding between what you understood country to be
I dived more into it when I was in my 20s
But did Rockabilly sort of help you all this?
I like all that
It all kind of blended because I started liking Billy Lee Riley's and all that stuff to Paul Burleson and then especially meeting the guys

(20:57):
Well it's a far stretch from Eddie Bond to Thor
It's weird because we like even with the whole my band situation like I've been lucky enough to go play with Wayland's band
But then we've also back shooter Jennings when he came to town we're buddies with him now
But then we've played with a HR bad brains and Agent Orange and then I had my other band
You played what do you mean you played with him? You backed him up?

(21:20):
With shooter we backed him we came saying with us I sang with Wayland's band
We backed up who else I played a bunch of shows of Black Oak Arkansas
And this is as Josephus?
It all kind of interchanges it's kind of that's just the name for me in a revolving cast
With Super Witch we played with a we lined up the Black Flag Black Oak Arkansas Super Witch show

(21:45):
What year was that? That was at the high torque?
Young Avenue Dilly
That was probably 2014
But with the Josephus stuff we played with everybody from like say HR Bad Brains to David Allen Coe, Johnny Winter, Mike White
Did Johnny Winter remember being here at the Blues Festival in 1690?
We played with him in Little Rock and they kind of helped him on stage and he couldn't see but they put the guitar in his hand and he just started ripping

(22:09):
And killed it and the crowd was older, way older so I was like are we going to calm down our set or are we just going to mellow it out?
I was like no hell let's do our thing
So you're saying when they found out you were from Memphis?
That, yeah, that kind of led to Lafayette conversation
Because I didn't even know KISS Play there but now there's a bootleg record of KISS at Lafayette
Wow

(22:31):
I feel like we should cut to that
They've got that I think in the record store on Bill Street, they carry that
Okay, wait a minute, Schwab or?
No, the one that Robert Allen Parker works at
I see him quite a bit, I see his Fleetwood Mac cover band
He played on the MC5 tribute with us
Okay so man there's so much to talk about, should we cut to another song real quick?

(22:54):
Josephus song or do you want to play Super Witch?
Set the song up and tell me who the members are
Super Witch is El Dorado Del Rey from the Port Schools
Chris McCoy, he was a piss horse
John Pickle, I was in Mung with John Pickle
We used to do the wacky dress up shows
And that was all the guys from Super Witch

(23:39):
Watch out for one baby blue, they got pants and tags to let park in the front
World's largest on a long patrol
World's largest on a regular roll
I cross that pedigree, Charles Massen and son of Sam

(24:10):
Beware the wolf in blitzkrieg, beware the wolf in blitzkrieg
World's largest on a long patrol
World's largest on a regular roll

(24:50):
Super Witch is El Dorado Del Rey from the Port Schools
John Pickle, he was a piss horse
John Pickle, he was a piss horse
Come on down, look up my nice, he's got light in his hands and he's ready to strike
Watch out for one baby blue, they got pants and tags to let park in the front

(25:20):
World's largest on a long patrol
World's largest on a regular roll
Super Witch
Alright that was Super Witch, we got Joey Killingsworth here talking about Joe Cephas and the George Jonestown Massacre

(25:41):
Tell me a little bit about the origin of that band, we got more songs to play about them as well
That band started as a joke because I got a bad review at work, my boss gave me a bad review and I wrote a song about him called Quitting Time
You actually worked?
I was a computer tech, I work on laptops
I got one I could show you

(26:02):
This little jokie song called Quitting Time which I slaughtered the boss in it in a very funny way
Rock103 when it was Tim Spencer and the morning crew, they played this every morning for seven weeks in a row
And then it got to be where people were calling and requesting it, then people from my work were calling and requesting it
The boss finally called me in the office, he was like I want to be mad but the song was funny

(26:25):
And I can't be mad and he goes apparently it's doing something for you
And then when I quit my job, my day job, they got me a cake that said it's Quitting Time
So it's kind of like the hard rock version of Take This Job and Shut It?
Yeah, it was a country song
Why don't we cut to that and play that?
I'll email you a version of that
Alright here goes, this is Quitting Time and what's the band on this?
Me with Don Mayall on drums, Rich Wager on upright bass

(26:51):
Who played on that?
Scott Forbes on drums and then a steel player who I don't remember because I was like 19 years ago

(27:22):
I think I represent a whole lot of people out there
Don't seem to be getting the fair share
Kiss my ass, kiss my grits, audio, shoot son of a bitch
I think it's time I say goodbye, goodbye motherfucker

(27:57):
I've also been here for two years and I've been here three years more
It was your balls, everything's a loaf of doors
Now the day is finally here, get ready all just in a chair
I'm saying what you all have been wanting to say
I think I represent a whole lot of people out there
Don't seem to be getting the fair share

(28:22):
Kiss my ass, kiss my grits, audio, shoot son of a bitch
I think it's time I say goodbye, goodbye motherfucker
I don't know if I even put a band name on it
I did a country song called City Fied for John Pickles movie, The Importance of Being Russell

(28:46):
I'm in that, I'm the crazy preacher
Yes, yes, yes, well that's what led to all of it
I did a city fied, I got into country and like I want to make a country record, but then as I was making that then went to quitting time
I also want to play metal, so I was like why don't you do country and metal, because what can happen
Right, right
But then the way we started touring is instead of where most bands will just go out and you know night, night, night, night, night

(29:12):
I would look and find a show within an eight hour radius of us and it happened to be in David Allen Co. shows
And I would get us on a bill with one of them so that way we could go play a show and then put a couple little shows around it
So right out the gate you're playing to five to eight hundred people
But you also know how to book a show and you know how to play in other places where other bands seem to be trapped here in some substance of this

(29:36):
I read Martin Neckin's book Tour Smart
Okay, Tour Smart
He had the idea like with Pig Face it covers everything you need to know about touring, he even covers
If you're on a tour bus with a bunch of people doing drugs
You really have to think about stuff like that
If you got some guy that likes methamphetamine over here
And he's sharing a bus with this guy over here who's in the downers

(29:58):
And this guy over here likes acid
This guy's coming down and this guy's just being a noxious
Because that's real stuff you got to deal with
Right
But through that book
I really took that and I talked to him about it
I'm like man I took what you did and I kind of applied my own thing
Oh my god
So you came to Memphis to talk
But you even knew about the book

(30:20):
I had the book but then I started booking Black Oak Arkansas
So I started booking us with them
And I'm like I ain't worried about commission I'll just book us with them
So that ended us through that kind of connections and doing that stuff
I could book us and we played Antones and Austin Texas
And then a Dallas state but then

(30:41):
Well both bands need hotels
So they put us up at a Sheraton or something and then play in
Because they don't know they think we're on tour with these people all the time
Same as if you're going opening for a band out of town
They don't know you're not on tour with them
So they just know they never heard of you so they think you're touring with them
Then I started booking Black Oak
It led to me booking Molly Hatchett
It led to me booking David Allen Coe

(31:02):
Then getting us on shows with him and then just steadily booking
Till I started booking JD Pinkus from the Butthole Surfers
And that kind of really got me going where I started booking Nick Turner from Hawkwin
And became a book in it
So okay but musically there is no real
Is there a connective like musical interest between Black Oak Arkansas

(31:24):
And Butthole Surfers and Hawkwin
Because those all seem to be three different camps
All yet on the Butthole, the Black Oak Arkansas tribute we did
Because I had Nick Turner play sax on a song with us and JD Pinkus
Covering swimming in quicksand
And through that led me booking Nick Turner's tours
We were hanging out with one of Greg Ginn's friends
And he's like you know me and Greg you smoke a lot of weed

(31:46):
Talk about what we cool Black Black Arkansas
So fast forward a couple years later
Fast forward
We get Greg, Greg was the main first guest on the
Shooter Jennings joined us and did Hot Rod
When we thought we were going to put out a single
Because we recorded Fever in my mind with Jim Dandy
And we had Hot Rod left over so Shooter did that
So we were going to put out a single

(32:08):
But nobody was really interested in putting it out
Then I had the idea for the tribute album
Because I want to work with Greg Ginn
How can I get my heroes on my record
Which tribute album
Black Oak Arkansas
So I was like how can I do this
And I went oh Greg's in the animals
I like animals a lot
And I got the foundation here in Memphis
Got Greg Ginn on board

(32:30):
Greg later on puts me in the band on the guest list
In Fayetteville on a day off
I go give Greg Ginn a bunch of signed Black Oak stuff
And he's signing my Black Flag stuff
And then later that's when Ron Reyes
Old school Black Flag singer was still singing in the band with him
For like the reunions in 2014 or something like that
So I go up to Ron Reyes
I'm like hey I'm the dude that gave Greg all that Black Oak stuff

(32:52):
He's like yeah you ever want to make Greg Ginn
A happy man booked Black Flag with Black Oak Arkansas
I went I'm their booking agent
And I will do that
It took a year
But at the deli it happened
Why would Greg Ginn be into Black Oak Arkansas
He loved the Grateful Dead too
Well I read that
And that also is a puzzler to me

(33:14):
Because I would think punk and Grateful Dead
Would be the furthest things
It's kind of like when you look back
When you look at my MC5 and Stooges
They're heavily into Free Jazz and Sun Ra
And all this kind of stuff
Well they were maybe into John Coltrane or something right
Very much so
But that to me is more maybe understandable
I know Kramer just passed away
And so there was some talk about the jazz connection

(33:36):
Keith Morris
Me and him used to talk on Facebook
Before I met him the other day
Well he does own our MC5 tribute
But me and him were talking around the time this record came out
And he used to see Black Oak
Back when they used to play the whiskey
Yeah
That was their number one fan
But like Keith Morris and all them people were like
We love Black Oak

(33:57):
They're like we get what you're doing
Because I was trying to line them up with heavier bands
And they're like
I get it
Well I guess I'm trying to swing you around here to the MC5 thing
So we can talk about that and play something there too
Well also after the Black Oak thing
We did the Johnny Cash one with WS
Okay that was in between
And after that we had a bunch of Mark Redis
Here we go

(34:19):
Heard some nads on the radio
I called Dick Ladoo who's my partner
And all this stuff
He does all the recording
Me and him worked together on the records
I got an idea
Hair of the dog
All the way through
Okay Joe
Whatever you say man
I was like serious

(34:41):
I got it
That was my accent
That was my Mark Redac accent
So fast forward like a week or two
A couple weeks later
I'm talking to Facebook to Ryder from the National Pussy
And I'm like
They're one of the first bands that kind of really believed in us
When we were doing the Black Oak tribute
They took their one day off on their 22 day tour

(35:02):
And came recorded at the house with us
So I was telling Ryder
I'm like hey I think
I had this crazy idea
I'm gonna do Hair of the Dog
The whole album
And my thing is once I get a guest
Locked in like Greg was the big guest in the first one
We also had Shooter from the E
Doing a seven inch record
Shooter and then we got a record

(35:24):
So once I mentioned that to her
She goes oh that's the only record I got on my iPod
I'm gonna sing
Miss Misery
And Blaine calls Hair of the Dog
Dick I got two guests already
And we got a record
And so then we end up getting Manny Charlton
The original guitars for Nazareth
Who was their producer and produced all the stuff

(35:45):
And it actually produced the
Appetite for Destruction
Demos for Guns N' Roses
So we did that
But then we end up getting Neil Fallon from Clutch
To do Please Don't Judice Me
And we slowed it down and made it more psychedelic
Because with these covers
We might do it the way the band did
Or we do our own thing with it
And at this point people kind of know we're gonna do our own shit

(36:07):
Where's this stuff available?
Spotify, iTunes, Bandcamp, it's everywhere
Record stores is all on vinyl
I was gonna say is it on vinyl?
So how did the budget
There's no budget
So how did the vinyl happen then?
We saw Stex Records out of Texas
We had tried to everybody
Because once we record everything ourselves

(36:28):
So everything pretty much
I'll pay out a pocket for some guests
Jello will be off for saying Jim Danny to rescue
So like we paid for his studio
A lot of people have home studios now
Do it in house
But so we do all the recording ourselves
And then we were talking to Cleopatra Records
We were talking to alternative tentacles
And all these labels
And they were wanting us to maybe do crowdfunding

(36:50):
Since there's gonna be a double album for the Black Oak
But then right we had a one week left
I'm like I can't find nobody
Let's just put it out ourselves
Who cares, I'm tired of dealing with it
I've been on Stex Records for six years
And then J.D. Pinkas, but all servers
Like hey try my buddy
He puts out some kind of weird music man
At Saw Stex Records
Jeff Smith

(37:12):
He's like he might dig it
I'm friends with Jeff Smith
Do you remember when he was living here in Memphis in 97?
I didn't meet him until 2016
When he put out the record
Now I go hang out with him all the time in Texas
That's our buddy in Texas
Well I haven't been able to hook up and I'm sorry I missed your show
But in 97 he was living here with his buddies

(37:33):
And they were in the Interstate Leisure Kings
And they played my Sword Losers premiere at the Parallax Theatre downtown
On Madison near the Map Room
I actually talked to him on the phone today
Because yeah he puts out all our stuff
He put out the Snow Blind record and all the tribute albums
Jeff Smith does
And then we played on our last tour
And we always go through Texas and play his unofficial South by Show Cases

(37:56):
And we played with the Hickories
And then people would come up to me going
We played Texas I mentioned Jeff
And somebody goes he used to scare the hell out of me
And I was like
The Interstate Leisure Kings used to take turns not drinking
Like there would be I think if I recall correctly
Tommy Gentry
And Jeff and God forgive me
I can't remember the rest of the guys

(38:17):
But my friend Victoria dated Tommy
But this was the Halcyon days of Sword Losers
Me making that movie
And the scene at that time
And mentioned the Garage Rock scene, Punk Rock scene
And yeah then they all
Scattered and moved back to their various
Oh Austin I guess
He's saying told him
Yeah yeah okay

(38:39):
But you gotta tag him on this
Oh yeah he
He's done so much to help us out
He's a great guy
And I'm gonna help him book a show for
Billy Bremner who did stuff with the Rock Cats
And play guitar on a
Pretender, some pretender stuff
Damn
Well Jeff is a Bowie fan too
He told me the story about how he ran into Bowie in the supermarket

(39:01):
Yeah yeah
Oh that's a trip
Oh my God
Yeah I love that dude man
He drove from
He has a place called the Corn Pound
You know everything with Hickories is corn
Cause they had an album we did it for the corn
I've never seen the Hickories
Well it's all corn things
So people give him corn stuff all the time

(39:22):
But he started this thing called the Corn Pound
Where it's a big compound
It has a record store, recording studios
An antique shop, all kind of stuff in it
But he went to pick, it's got a full analog recording studio
And he went to pick up a mastering console
Last week in Chicago
He is a big part of the Texas music scene
Still
Well I'd love to see Jeff
And that was the band I saw him out playing at the place across from Graceland

(39:44):
The cafe or whatever it was, Hickories
So when we showed the sort of losers on the road
We asked bands who opened for the movie to provide a tune
And then Long Gone John
A sympathy for the record industry
Was going to put the record out
It was called Shine On Sweet Starlet
Which was a super eight film that accompanied it
So the Interstate Leisure Kings gave us a song
Which was called Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping

(40:05):
And that was a tune that came out on vinyl on sympathy
So you need to check that out
I actually told you something you don't know
Yeah wow
It's in a picture, hang on
I'll get a picture, I'm listening to it
Maybe we should play that
Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping

(40:49):
Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping
She got the exit, drink, she got the airplane
Going to get some money just as fast as I can

(41:11):
Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping

(41:32):
She's got the best liquor store for window shopping
Always got my hands up my feet
Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping

(41:54):
I wrote a love letter and I tried it to a rock
Through the window and I ran on down the block
Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping

(42:32):
Okay that was a complete tangent
Jeff Smith and Tommy Gentry and the Interstate Leisure Kings
Back in Memphis in 97 doing a Best Liquor Store for Window Shopping
If I'm wrong about that title or anything that might have happened
I apologize and we'll have to re-edit this whole thing
That's a small world you know Jeff
But here's another limb I'll go out on

(42:54):
What do you say?
Don't mind I said howdy
Okay alright
Texting with Jeff Smith
I want to say that when sympathy put out there
20th, what was it?
Best of, Long Gone John put out the best of
Some sort of thing that sympathy did
Best of hits or whatever

(43:15):
That the Interstate Leisure Kings were on that record
Representing Shine on Sweet Starlight in my movie
So we'll make sure that that's right
Hick always just had their 40th anniversary show
Damn they're still alive
Still going, he's a soul original living member of the original lineup
Okay, okay
Because David Jones also played with the dicks and a bunch of bands too
You fell into this whole tribute album through J.D. Pinkus

(43:37):
So how many have you done?
If you count double albums
The Black Oak Hour was a double album
Double album
There was a double album, 18 songs
Then we did the four songs, Johnny Cash E.P.
Hair of the Dog in its entirety
And the MC5 we basically did almost their whole discography
Because we did, it's a double album
And we even did some of the singles

(43:58):
The days we just did, they covered Believe in My Soul
On a demo
But we did that anyhow with Neil Turbin
The first Anthrax singer
And Jeanette the Poletano from Concrete Blonde
Your reputation as a producer
As an organizer
As a showbooker
I hope that they all appreciate the fact that you write original songs
And you wrote your own band
And you wrote your own music

(44:21):
And then we'll put out an original album
Then we'll do a tribute album
An original album
Because we have four tributes
But like six albums original
You have six albums of Josephus
And the George Jones Town Massacre
It's all under the same name
Let's play one more Josephus song
Driving Blind
Driving Blind

(44:43):
Okay, this is Josephus and the George Jones Town Massacre
One shot, two shot, three and four
I hit the bottle then I hit the floor
Key to the door to the ignition to the drive
It's a test I make it out alive
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
I call shot gun
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind

(45:05):
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
Here I go I'm on the road again
The block of love was win
Cause I live flat with my way
Pedal to the floor is how I drive

(45:26):
It's a test I make it out alive
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
You can't stop me

(46:03):
I'm driving blind
Here I go I'm on the road again

(46:25):
The block of love was win
Cause I live flat with my way
Pedal to the floor is how I drive
It's a test I make it out alive
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind
I'm driving blind

(46:46):
I'm driving blind
Oh that song is driving blind
Who plays on that?
That would be me with Brian Costner
and Darrell Stevens
who they are both in a whole ton of bands in Memphis now
and Darrell Stevens
Darrell's brother who played organ on it
Darrell plays with whatever dude

(47:08):
Dooshafer
Is that local?
Yeah they got costumes
kind of like Gore
There's a band called Dooshafer
and that local and I've no idea
They've got a comic book
They've got a comic book by who?
They did it themselves
and also Grindel Crane
my other band I was in in the 90s

(47:30):
our first show was with a band called Ceramic Gaslog
then it come to find out Frank Rhodes
he was in the first show I played in a club
Which was?
Rascals
I did like a Amro Jam thing before
but then we played Rascals
You know I'm either ashamed or proud to say
that I never went to Rascals
Man it was a crazy club

(47:51):
Because I had been converted to punk rock
and there was no need for me to go hair metal
or do anything which would have been
looking backwards at that point
Now in the band Rudy Forsters
in my band now who was in special shoes
but he was in Blackbone
and that's one thing I always tripped down
like no one ever talks about Blackbone
and Son of Slam and those two bands
were packing the daisies in the night

(48:13):
Son of Slam?
Yeah they were completely packing the daisies
them and Blackbone both
I know bands were playing in Tana and everywhere
and they were pulling it up
So have you heard the folklore about
Black Flag playing the antenna?
84?
I knew they played there but I did not know about it
Steve McGee the owner said that Satan
was in the room that night

(48:34):
That was his quote
from the antenna dock that Chris McCoy did
That was a great dock too
Yeah totally but I didn't know if you remembered that
like how does Satan get in the room with Black Flag?
Did they go squirrely?
I mean there was a place
where they played with something happenin?
Don't you think that their music
especially with the Rollins period
conjures up a more aggressive force

(48:56):
Very aggro
Yeah more so than the previous records
which I was into initially
like TV parties
They turn around and slow down
and influence the whole another
because they influenced that whole Melvins
and everything
Yeah they had to slow down because I think it was too violent
No they slowed down because everybody was
slow

(49:17):
So you don't think it conjured up more violence to play fast?
It's a whole lot of screaming in both
What they said damaged was
was it the label on it was this is not a parent record
or an anti parent record when it came out
My war though was a great record
Do you try to get a certain sound
when you record versus when you play live
like with Black Flag
they had a certain sound when they were recorded

(49:38):
with Greg Ginn's transistor knowledge
and all that stuff
Did they have that sound live though is the question
I never seen Black Flag
to that time we played with them
like the later era so I've seen the videos and all that
but for me it's the five piece line up
the demos are better than the record
because they did that one
there's some demos
Garner has the record now

(49:59):
it was Rollins, Chuck Dacowski, Ginn
might have been Chuck Biscuits on drums
and Dez on guitar
but it's all my war and a bunch of those songs
five piece style
most the studio versions
are ugly Americans or Dagnasty
Corrosion of conformity
you weren't there to hear the record
necessarily you were there to dance
you were there to survive

(50:21):
you were there to have a story to tell later
and that was that period
which I think was pretty much the end
of progressive rock and roll
it all ends in the 90s it seems
I would say it ends earlier
but do you think that
my whole take on the music thing
is like even if you have your bands
say like bands that got big in the 90s

(50:42):
your sound gardens
and your rage against the machines
and all that and Pearl Jam
they're all talking about
we listen to Neil Young
we're listening to everything from
the Maders to everything before us
we're seeing like anything after 93
all these bands all they listen to
is the bands from 93
there's no umbrella of influences

(51:04):
like you got five influences
it's like when comic book artists
drew from life or anatomy studies
in the 50s and 60s
but by the 70s and 80s
you were just drawing from other comic book artists
I only enough because of
weird bands like the birthday party
I don't know if you're familiar with that
Nick Hayes band
that's what kind of led to the

(51:25):
MC5 record happening in a weird way
because we opened up for the MC50
and Nashville which was
when Wayne Kramer was doing the 50th
anniversary kick out the jams
it was Wayne
Brendan from Fagazi on drums
Billy Gould Faith no more on bass
Kim Thale Sound Garden
on a guitar

(51:46):
and we opened up
and whenever I meet these people
I don't go talk about their bands
and I had a birthday party shirt on
and it was Brendan
what's up birthday party
that's all we talked about
Flash Ford walk around a little bit
and I was like birthday party shirt man
what's up
so then we talked about birthday party

(52:07):
I walked by Kim Thale
and he was like hey how's it going
release the bats
and what you know about that
he goes I want to all about the birthday party
so that's all we talked about
so when me and Rudy
wrote up that show that we played
and on the way back Rudy Forrest
on the way back I'm like
I bet if I gave all the profits

(52:28):
I bet I could get Kim to be the first guest
so I reached out to
Brandon from Fagazi
and sent him our stuff
like we put forward a message to Kim for me
boom Kim was the first guest
and then we got Danko Jones
to sing the Canadian artists
to sing kick out the jams
with Kim ripping the solo

(52:49):
when was this the last tribute you did
on the MC5 one
that was the thing that kicked everything off
was it a double album is on
and I did 22 songs actually
when did it come out
last September
so Wayne Kramer was able to
to enjoy that
and he posted a video
I woke up one day and looked on Facebook

(53:10):
and there's a real words
Wayne with the record
and Wayne's talking about the record
I saved it
well maybe because there's a ton of big names
on this thing and there's so many great names
he goes but there's so many idiot
people had to play them correctly and these dudes played their asses off
and that for me I was like
he's like the Chuck Berry of the band
I was like holy shit

(53:32):
to get the thumbs up
because there's not some easy shit to play
kick out the jams is the easy one
but we did human being lawnmower
we did skunk
we went with the obscure breathing
we were going to play a tune right now
human being lawnmower
which is Jello Biaffer singing
I'll send this to you
Here'sra

(53:53):
Music
Music
Can you hear me?
Hope you can
Isn't there close sleep?
You'll understand

(54:16):
There's an ancient race of killer rapes
They used to dive on
Millimeter by millimeter
Millimeter by millimeter
Six times out of the song
Didn't mean to hurt anyone
Didn't mean to hurt anyone
Sorry, sorry

(54:42):
Love

(55:42):
You can't afford me to help them
You will say, you will say, you
boro hot and the hound you
And chase us around you
So saddened before
That human being a lot more
That human being a lifeboard.
Chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop!

(56:02):
Chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop!
Chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop chop!
Yeah!
Alright, that was human being.
Lawnmore, who's singing on that?
Jello Biafra and the late great Wayne Kramer, ripping the solo.
And tell me, once again, just a full circle, that was the project?

(56:24):
Yes, the album is called Call Me Animal, a tribute to the MC5, and all of our profits of sales goes to
Jail Guitar Doors, which provides mentorship and instruments to inmates. It's Wayne and his wife,
Margaret's Foundation.

(57:00):
You can see it watch it slipping away, watch it's time take the fast lane beside you, like a rocket it flies by so fast and nothing you can do.
So come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake. Come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake.

(57:22):
Like an eagle you were ready to fly but your combine of the ground is the cloud fast you by, so tragic, so magic, so static when you have everything that you want but can't have it.
But you live on your knees while you stare at the trees complaining life has passed you by. You only get one chance, you only get one shot, like at a night.
So come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake. Come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake.

(57:52):
Oh, you gotta find it, you gotta see today, you gotta make it happen, no other way, like now.

(58:22):
So come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake.
Come on, let's go, do the deathrattle shake.

(59:02):
Come on, let's go!

(59:24):
Death Rattle Shake by Josephus and the George Johnstown Massacre.
And that'll be with Brian Koster on bass, Darrell Stephens on drums, and his brother Gerald Stephens on organ.
So, oh, I gotta say this. Alright, so I'm listening to this stuff today. It's very riff heavy.
Oh yeah.
It's very much of my background. I don't want to be like wax nostalgic here, but when I was 16, 17, I didn't really get into Punk until I was 19.

(59:51):
I remember going and buying Molly Hatchett's Flirting with Disaster. I bought every Ted Nugent album. I could get my hands on at Walmart.
You know, there's always so much you could buy in Mississippi at the record stores. I mean, I had my Beatles blue and red records, but very first show I ever saw was Point Blank.
Point Blank was sort of like a Memphis band. They did a song called Oh Nicole. My Sweet Nicole. It was a regional hit and they were Southern Rock.

(01:00:17):
Typical thing where you had about seven guys with a triple guitar, a solver, right? Right. That kind of thing.
And they played in Boonville at Northeast Mississippi Junior College, opening for Stillwater, which was the real Stillwater, not the one from all those famous, which was like the fake man.
And then Key Sykes. Oh, well.
So I saw Key Sykes, Stillwater and Point Blank, but Point Blank, because it was these proto looking doobie brother people, except they were like not the doobie brothers. They just look, they all look like variations on Skunk Baxter, you know,

(01:00:51):
playing this one regional hit they had. But that was sort of my middle teenage, you know, right after puberty, existence of getting into music and having Southern Rock as as the way to go and seeing Ted play a million times and seeing Blackfoot.
He was right if you just shut up. Even when I seen him in 90, I think 1990 or something, he was still just harping on politics.

(01:01:13):
But that music speaks to that credo, though. Honestly, if you if you if you examine what the credo is and what the subject matter is and everything.
Yeah, my first shows I made and Twisted Sister and D got arrested for cussing the night before in Memphis.
He got arrested, I think in Jackson and he came out just intense.
But with Ted talking about Nashville Pussy on a double live album, that's where they got their name from.

(01:01:34):
That's where they got their. Oh, yeah, of course, they got their name from that. But nobody cared what Ted said. Right.
Yeah. Do you think that a lot of these bands in that regard because of the political climate will get brushed to the wayside under the carpet?
Ted is definitely brushed away. You see, he's just not he's more talk than music.
His later output, regardless what his political beliefs are, is not as good as what he was doing.

(01:01:58):
Because back then it was it was it was fire. Everything he was doing back then was fire.
I mean, he's ripping. But his big strength was Derek St. Holmes singing that stuff. Sure.
Have you worked with him? Not yet. Yeah, he's around. I'm searching.
I love that. I do. I think I tried to get him for one of the records because I have a bunch of yeses.

(01:02:19):
I get there's always a ton of no's because I got to apply. No for McGee pop.
I got to play. No, because I originally for kick out the jams, I was trying to get a iced tea.
I was going to try for Perry Farrell, but he was having some throat surgery.
That's another good name for a band to play nose.
I get a ton of so anytime people go, oh, you get all these people.
I was like, there's a lot of people I don't get. So Ziggy retired.
He still does stuff here and there. And we're doing a stooge.

(01:02:43):
It's tribute. I'm about to work on. So my my plan is to reach out to him and say,
look, if you'll sing a song with us, I'll give all the money to your charity.
Does he have one? I'll find something he likes to give a shirtless people of America.
Right by shirts for kids. But if he says no, I email with James Williamson.

(01:03:04):
I used to have booked him some shows before he's the last guy still alive.
Yeah. So if nothing else, I'll say, look, James, if you'll play on this with us,
I'll give all the money to whatever charity you you prefer.
I try to get James on the MC five, but he goes, I never was really into him.
But that was not him. That was all Ashton brothers.
Was Williamson from Detroit?
I'm not sure. But with the Ashton's, they were the little brother band.

(01:03:26):
Sure. MC five. So when MC five got 10,000 for signing, I think
she's got like 5,000. But and then once they kind of, he kind of ditched them.
And then went looking for other musicians with him and James.
And then he's like, well, we can't find nobody. Let's get get the Ashton brothers again.
We're talking about doing Fun House plus. But then as I start thinking about him, like,
well, with Fun House, you got the song Fun House, which is a big open jam.

(01:03:49):
So you'd have to have whoever singing there. Then there's the LA jam, that jam song,
which is just noise. So might try to do Stooges, but kind of lean more to their
stones. They didn't ever record. Was that I'm sick of you? I got a right stuff.
They're kind of pop. Wait, so you're saying you would have a tribute just to Fun House,
like you did with Nazar? That's the plan we're talking about now.

(01:04:10):
Okay. We'll attribute to Fun House. But as I sit there and think about him,
like, well, the LA blues song is just noise. That takes out a song.
Loose is good. But then if we just do a regular Stooges, but kind of lean more to the more
obscure tracks that never made it to those three records, because there's a whole ton of bootleg
stuff they did and recorded in studios that never came out to, you know, after the fact.
Right. A ton of great songs.

(01:04:32):
Like, I got a right being just a major jam. Right. And, you know, even the books, photo books,
and things are coming out and they're quite impressive. Because right now we're doing,
we're about to, we're in the planning stages of doing a Stooges tribute where I'm going to incorporate
Chris and Russ from Thousand Lice to be the lineup of that. Chris McCoy.
And Russ Thompson to be that lineup and do Stooges songs for this record. But at the same time,

(01:04:57):
we're also doing a Joe Walsh tribute album. And at the same time as that, we're also doing a,
as we were leaving Texas last time around, we played, I seen a post from the girl that runs
the high voltage school of rock for kids needing guitar cases and stands. I'm like,
well, shit, we can just do a tribute to local Texas music and give all the money to them

(01:05:19):
to help raise money for the kids to get some instruments. We can get Jeff Smith back in this.
Oh, he's definitely in it. Oh, so already we've recorded a Legionnaires disease song. They're
one of the first Texas punk bands. We've did that with Jeff Clayton from Antisyn. And we just recorded
Time of the Preacher, the Willie Nelson song. We did it kind of country style with a,

(01:05:43):
oh, I can't think of his name now, the guitar player from Payne Teens playing still guitar
and Gary Floyd from the Dicks. He's already did his track and sang the hell out of it.
That Duke of Sang. And of course we're going to Jeff Smith and already like,
we're going to do a Payne Teens song. Lydia lunch is going to join us with one of them.
So your fame is like, you're all over the place, man. So, but,

(01:06:06):
So it's keep going. Well, but that also leads to gigs for your band, right? And,
and so you're constantly touring. Yeah. And that's what people go there. Like,
well, if you give all the money to charity, what do you get out of? It's like, I could not buy
this kind of publicity. So like or hate my band, people will come up and go, my favorite band or
my favorite singer or guitar player plate is on your record. So I'm going to see what the hub

(01:06:29):
up is about. So, and I guess back to my point earlier, we couldn't buy that kind of publicity.
No, no, no. But, and maybe you read that in the tour book, the, there you go.
What's the name of that book again? Tour smart. Tour smart. Martin Atkins,
man. He's a, he's a man, but pig face did it. And then, and I even told him, I was like, you're,
you're the inspiration for all this stuff I'm doing because it's interchangeable lineups.

(01:06:53):
So can we play one more, uh, uh, Josephus and what we got left? Well, driving blind. Oh,
I did see the song. I think I sent you shaking street with Alice Cooper. I was gonna, we're
going to wrap it up with Alice Cooper. Okay. Well, uh, is there one I've sent you that we've not
used yet? Or if not, I can send you another one. We can play. Wait. So the Alice Cooper has who
playing on it? That is me, Rudy Forrester, Frank Rhodes, uh, Darrell Stevens and Alice Cooper,

(01:07:22):
which is just still weird to say to this day. Well, let's, let's go ahead and play that. Okay.
What's it called? Shaking Street.

(01:08:27):
Shaking Street.

(01:08:57):
Folks keep complaining. They find it so shocking. All the kids want to do is keep on rocking.
The ain't got no time to think about stopping. They gotta get down and do a little stomping.
The Saturday girl wants to shake her shaker. And Bobby C says he's gonna take her to Shaking Street.
He's got that beat. Shaking Street. Where all the kids meet. Shaking Street. He's got that sound.

(01:09:24):
Shaking Street says you gotta get down. Shaking Street. He's got that beat. Shaking Street. Where
all the kids meet. Shaking Street. He's got that sound. Shaking Street says you gotta get down.

(01:09:54):
All right. That was Shaking Street with Alice Cooper and members of Josephus and the Georgetown
town. Yes. That would be Frank Rhodes, who's also in Dushford. He was in special shoes.
A ton of bands. He's in great. A ton of bands. Darrell Stevens, who's been with me forever,
who's also in Oliveira. Oliveira. Whatever dude. Maybe it's getting late. That is Rudy

(01:10:20):
Forrester who's in Black Mone. So, okay. Yeah. Right. So yeah, like you said, it's a collaboration.
It's a collective. It's a collective. The first tribute album. It's a commune.
Was basically me, Dick Ladoo. He's our co-producer and all this stuff. So, he's always playing on
something or another because he plays bass, drums, guitar. Right. So, the Black Oak one,

(01:10:46):
it was me, Darrell and Brian and Dave Wade, another drummer who tours me a lot. That was the majority
of it. And we had Rudy Forrester on some stuff and then brought in a couple of guests. The Johnny
Cash one was me, Dick Ladoo and Brian Costner and W.S. Holland for all four tracks. The Nazareth was

(01:11:08):
me, Brian Costner and Darrell Stevens on the whole. We recorded that one all at once. And then we
brought in Shane from who was in Mother Crush. He did the talk box for the Nazareth song and
we bring Darrell Stevens on some of this stuff. And on the MC5 one, it's Jesus. Me, Brian Costner,

(01:11:32):
Darrell Stevens, Rudy Forrester, Dick Ladoo, Josh Stevens who's in Gloria Sabore, two of the Dirty
Street guys, Robert Allen Parker, Alex Green plays piano on a song, Robert Allen Parker,
I say him already, Hope Clayburns on a song, a whole lot of Memphis. Darrell Stevens again. So

(01:11:58):
that one, we try to bring in as much Memphis as possible. You could get Susie Hendricks on
Sacks for the Fun House. Who we have, we did the Fun House before we had Seth. Oh, no. Okay. He did
it when we did the Fun House in its entirety at Black Lodge when Halloween and Seth, it was me and
Chris McCoy, Russ Thompson, Jesse James Davis and Seth play Sacks. You know, when you say Russ

(01:12:22):
Thompson, I don't think about him being the kind of guy that's just got power, drummer. He's also
in the margins. Yeah. And he's playing with, I think, Switchblade Kid now. He's got to be bringing
it. Oh, that dude's, he's on the MC5 tracks. He's on the him and him and Chris McCoy and Jesse
James are on a, I want you right now, what we did with Lydia lunch and also call me animal, which

(01:12:46):
has J.G. Thurwell from Fetus, who also does all the soundtrack stuff for Archer, the Cartoon Network
show. And also it turned into a fetus reunion from the touring lineup because Dorman Westberg
from Swans used to be in Fetus. So I'm like, Hey, would you mind forgetting Norm to play,
since he used to be in your band in the 90s? And like, absolutely. I guess what Russ, I'm just

(01:13:06):
saying this like I've seen him play in pop band or garage rock bands. But yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Russ actually, because John, when we did the Bowie tribute that Graham put together,
I was on stage for that. Yeah. Well, John Pickle couldn't make it. So Russ played with us during
the Super Witch part of that. My daughter Hannah got up and we sang with Jack. We did Diamond Dogs.

(01:13:28):
Nice. Yeah. God, that was 2016. Eight years ago. Okay. So we're going to wrap this up talking about
Alice Cooper, which got to say I came to Alice late, but I've lately been listening to the first
four or five albums. The first, the first, the full band that first with six for those because the

(01:13:51):
production, I don't know where Ezra came in necessarily. Bob Ezra came in. He came in on,
I think, I think he came in on Love It to Death. Okay. The first two records were Zappa. Right.
And then I think Ezra came in on Love It to Death. But the experience that you hear in his voice
and the delivery and he's not even probably trying that. If you see him in those 80s videos when he

(01:14:13):
was like, looks like a toothpick because he's so because, you know, they didn't finally admit it
to like the last documentary came out. He's like, yeah, I quit drinking. But then I got in a cocaine.
But then you see him on Special Forces, those tours and he looks real things like,
oh, that explains why you look like a toothpick with some makeup. So why isn't he dead yet?
He, but he quit doing all that, you know, just because you quit it though. He became golf guy.

(01:14:38):
And that dude tour Bob Hope, if you've ever seen his schedule is still just ridiculous. He's not
in stock. He's close, no closer to Memphis and Kentucky. I noticed because we got to see him at
the Orpheum. I got to meet him when he came to South Haven. But yeah, I mean, those easy, was it
that record of killers, killers, billion dollar babies, easy actions, all that stuff is just wicked,

(01:15:04):
wicked great albums that no one talks about because they should be up there with like the Black Sabbath
volume four and the Zeppelins. Well, I mean, Black Sabbath, I think, I don't know if they're
overrated, but to me, Alice Cooper, you know, there's a certain more diverse. Well, well,
the critics intelligence, you like Lester Bangs hated Alice Cooper and love the Stooges. Of course,

(01:15:25):
these days, wouldn't it be nice if we had anything like that? Because I love how he would go from
like a, uh, uh, hello, hooray and stuff like that to raped and freezing and billion dollar babies.
And it's just like, it's all over the place. He was jumping ballot, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Right. Because they didn't really have any, they weren't worried about anything. And I think

(01:15:47):
Zappa was their friend who was getting them places. And the most, to me, the all important thing is
they didn't have to succeed on the first album. Of course, they wanted to, right? Took them four
albums like Kiss, the big push or pick a band because here's what three albums, there was a live
one that really right who thought that the double album live was going to really sell them off into

(01:16:09):
the big league. I think when you multi layer crowd noise, it is psychologically, it's like Orwellian.
Yeah. I must go see Kiss now. But, uh, but yeah, you, you're given time to grow as a band. There's
no growing nowadays. No. And I mean, can you believe that Robbie Krueger's first song he ever wrote
was like my fire? That's crazy. And that's what one thing I've seen a Chad Smith and the chili
peppers talking about, which he has, because most people don't think about when you think John Bonham,

(01:16:33):
that first album is like, he didn't grow. He came out fully formed on that first record. He's 19 or
20. Is that young? Yeah. On that first record, him and a plant both. And he's like, but you hear all
that stuff he's doing. That's crazy little triplets he's doing with the double. It was, they came out
sounding like that. Right. So explain the whole Alice Cooper connection with you. I've loved Alice

(01:16:54):
Cooper. My uncle, oddly enough, I had a cousin. My parents were doing something and they, uh,
dropped me off to stay at my cousin's house. And he played me Nazareth here, the dog.
And then he played me, uh, Alice Cooper's greatest hits. And let me borrow him or he let me borrow
the greatest hits. And those really had a big impact. So, uh, and he lives in Texas now and he

(01:17:16):
came out and I got to finally tell him like, you're the guy that hooked me up here in this stuff.
And we got to record with a, uh, the original guitar player from Nazareth Manny and you played
me that and you played me Alice and we got to just work with fucking Alice for me. That was the
best thing I could do. So when you say you worked with Alice, were you in the same room with it?
No, no, no. Okay. So I met him before in the same room, but this was, uh, mainly was dealing with his,

(01:17:39):
uh, his right hand guy. So you met him in South Haven. God, you should have met him at the Coliseum.
And I sent him a thing and I kind of, uh, I sent my pitch and what we do and they're like, well,
you might do a song, you might not. And that took a while and it's like, he's on board. We might do
shaking street, uh, or he might do a rambling rose cause I wanted him human being lawnmower. I want
all those easy old school Alice, like he won't shake and street, I guess cause that's the one

(01:18:02):
that Sonic Smith wrote. Okay. Uh, Fred Smith wrote that one. Hey, whatever. Long we got Alice, but
I love to have most more crazier tracks go old school, but I'll take it when I get. Okay. I would
be remiss if I did not talk about tupelo where I'm from, where your studio is. Uh, give me a couple
minutes on the whole tupelo recording experience. A Dick Ladoo has a studio, it used to be a Memphis

(01:18:26):
MAP Studios mighty all poots.
So and then when he moved out to Tupelo, we were recording at his house.
But now there's a house that's a studio where bands can record
and also stay there while they're in town.
And it's like two blocks off Main Street.
So we go record there and we'll go walk over to Main Street, get some pizza and like

(01:18:47):
one time I think it was standard and test or plan.
So we finished recording the song for the MC five tribute and walked over, got a drink
and walked on over to the show East Main where Elvis's birthplace
couldn't have not sure I'm not as familiar with Tupelo's first time.
I've really been out there a bunch.
I should. I'll give you a tour of Tupelo.
All the time.
I'll tell you the I'll show you the places where, you know, the bodies are buried.

(01:19:09):
It's the little rain of they they got there.
Yeah, that's right right by our studio.
So they go there.
Well, that's East Main. OK. Yeah.
All right. Wow.
Well, yeah, that's a shake.
And if you cross the tracks, that shake rag and then you go by the old fairgrounds
where the Elvis statue is and it's right there.
And that's the pennies used to be the pennies mall when I was growing up.
And now it's just arena. Well, not arena, but live performance.

(01:19:32):
Well, yeah, I saw the Beach Boys there a while there was a place there.
We used to play. We played there once called the thirsty devil.
There's clothes during a pandemic because as we were playing, a ton of bikers came in
and it went great and they loved us.
And then after the show, the club was like, oh, that was great.
You brought a ton of people here.
Well, like we had but really we didn't know any of these people.

(01:19:53):
They'd be a bike gang that came in and like this and brought more bikers in there.
And it packed out the place. Right.
Bikers on cell phones going, get over here.
Come on, man. Get your bike.
So what's tell me again, the name of the studio and MAP studios,
Mighty Alpoops. And I guess it's around East Main.
Yeah. So watch them there on magazine Street.
Wow. OK. Next time I'm down there, I'll be on the lookout.

(01:20:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
This is the house that we record at and record all this stuff out now.
Oh, wow. All right. Well, thanks for sharing that. Yes, sir.
All right. So listen, let's go out on a tune.
I have no idea what you want to play.
Do you have something off the top of your we have not played a thousand lights.
So I'll get you a thousand lights song. OK.
And who's the lineup here?
That is a Chris McCoy, Russ Thompson and Jesse James Davis.

(01:20:38):
All right. Here we go. Thank you.
And we're working on a new thousand lights record.
I want to see it. We'll have you back. Awesome.
Thank you, sir. Is a vinyl record.
I'm not sure what we're doing with this shit.
We're still getting it all together. OK.
It's a pleasure. Thank you to talk to you.
Thank you for having me. Thank you.

(01:24:23):
Is it something I could even try?
Are you going to stay away?
Are you going to stay away?
Are you going to stay away?

(01:24:49):
Are you going to stay away?
All right. That was a thousand.
That was a thousand lights.
And I got to say, this is a post script for the subod.

(01:25:10):
Subod, Memphis horror host 62 to 72.
I swear to God, I thought I was going to bring this up at the very beginning
because we were supposed to be chronological.
Let's start in 62.
Let's start when your dad was like in high school or something.
But or maybe have your dad on to talk about subod.
But I got to say real quick, we'll just do this real quick,

(01:25:31):
real quick in our terms.
I pitched these guys at black and white.
I said, let's reissue subod berries rock and roll from 63,
which was a huge seller locally.
Let's talk about regionalism, right?
Right. And they went along with it.
And COVID interrupted it, but it came out and whole package,
blood red vinyl. Looks good.

(01:25:53):
You got it. Yeah. I gave one to my dad.
There you go.
So I'd be interested in and we're going to when we go out,
we'll play a song.
We'll play subod berries rock and roll, which will,
I don't know if it's anticlimatic or like the greatest thing in the world.
But if it follows Alice Cooper, maybe it makes sense.
It makes a certain kind of sense.

(01:26:14):
You want to give me some spiel on your dad and survive it?
Let me set this up.
So you, you gay or your dad gave you to give us a picture that's on the back cover of the EP or record,
45 record.
Watson Davis putting his makeup on in a hotel room, which is amazing.
And there was another photo.

(01:26:35):
Another picture where it's him without his makeup with a lady and my dad sitting at the pride of the western steakhouse lounge.
I didn't use that one in the record because I was trying to conceptually fit it.
Makeup one made sense.
That made complete sense.
Go ahead. Tell me about all that.
But yeah, that he gave it to me a while back.
And I guess he said that survived used to scare me when I was little because my dad and Eddie Bond would film their show.

(01:27:00):
I think it was very early in the mornings.
And I guess the vibe would be filming his show too.
But he said it's a lot.
I always scared me because I was like, probably two, I think.
And he goes, if I scared me, but he had him sign a picture to Bobby Joe Killinsworth the second.
And I guess he signed that like in 1972.
That was the last year he was on.
Yeah.
WHBQ.

(01:27:21):
Yeah.
So he signed that then and then gave it to you because they're like, yeah, it's just so weird.
So when you're driving down Highland and you turn there off popular and you're heading south, you drive right by Channel 13,
which is where Savad finished the second part of the fantastic feature show.
Wow.
And then it all happened.
So did your dad, your dad hung out with him?
They were friends.

(01:27:42):
I'm not sure if they hung out or if they just kind of would talk to each other while they were both recording because the Eddie Bond show
originally was like 15 minutes, I believe it would air in the morning.
And I think they would film their stuff and then film Savad stuff.
And then later on my dad and them, they had the show that ended up going to, I think it was Fox and I think it was like 30 minutes or an hour or something.
And that went on to the 90s.

(01:28:03):
What was that called?
Eddie Bond show.
Full circle.
Yeah.
Eddie Bond and.
And I was telling him earlier, Jerry Lawler got his start with Eddie Bond also.
And then I have a drum head that Eddie Bond or Jerry Lawler had painted for my dad when Jerry was 16 and painted Bobby Killingsworth.
And when I was starting to play drums when I was 1415, I was going through, I was going like, I'm going to clean it up.

(01:28:27):
It's looking a little dirty.
And I had a wet rag and I was starting to start to kind of water colors.
But I salvaged and I stopped in a nick of time because that was my dad's like, Hey, hey, hey.
Jerry Lawler using water color.
Yeah.
Because he would draw those cartoons in and send them into Eddie and Jackie and you know, they'll let all this stuff.
But so I guess when Jerry did some kind of exhibit at one of the bookstores, the last 10 years or so or last 20 years, I went up to the thing where that drum had.

(01:28:59):
I was just holding it there or Jackie, Jerry was talking to somebody.
He's like, he's seen that drumhead.
Oh my.
So I had him sign it to me and my dad.
And I guess he painted that in 1968.
And so I still got that.
And I still him one time I was blue oyster cult was playing at the fair blue oyster cult and Jerry was there and I had the sleeveless shirts and stuff.

(01:29:22):
I was walking up to Jerry going, Hey, Jerry, and he's got back and up.
I went, No, man, my dad's Bojack.
And I was like, Oh, like I ain't trying to freak you out or nothing walking up on you.
But yeah, my dad.
Did you see blue oyster cult at 616 and 97?
I did not.
I see motorhead at 616 and 98.
And that was awesome.
And the Ramones.

(01:29:43):
Did you go to that?
I was shooting the sword losers at the antenna club that night.
Ramones.
The show that never ends, man.
I saw him at my island, but I didn't see that show.
I had I only escaped my friend.
I escaped from LA or escape from New York show with Blondie and Tom Tom.
Yeah, I missed that one.
Hey, it's a pleasure having you on.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.

(01:30:04):
We're going to go out with Savad or did we already play Savad?
I can't remember.
All right.
This Savad buries rock and roll, but it won't bury Joey Killingsworth.
Appreciate it.

(01:30:40):
It's been a long, long time.
We've come to bury rock and roll and leave it here to stay.
Gee, can I have?
Dig me a deep, dark hole in the ground.

(01:31:01):
Keeps right on digging, yeah.
Believe it or not, when this is the block man, it's going to be deeper than that.
Look how I dig it.
I suppose that grave is deep enough, throw in those records, yeah.

(01:31:22):
This is the end man, start a new trend, man.
Rock and roll is dead.
What did y'all do with my Mozart album?
Dig me a deep, dark hole in the ground.
Keeps right on digging, yeah.
Believe it or not, man, this is the block man, it's going to be deeper than that.

(01:31:52):
Long too long I've had to listen to beat as had it's day.
We've come to bury rock and roll and leave it here to stay.
That I do mean stay.