August 25, 2025 • 36 mins
What happens when your meticulously planned hunting season suddenly falls apart? When that trophy buck you've been patterning all summer becomes inaccessible because someone dumped garbage on the access road? Or when predators take over your carefully cultivated mineral site?
Dave shares his fresh wound—losing access to "The Locker Room," a honey hole with three Pope and Young qualifiers, including two that would have been his biggest bucks ever. After months of trail camera work, mineral placement, and pattern identification, it all vanished with a closed gate. His painful experience launches us into a candid conversation about resilience in hunting.
We explore the full spectrum of season-ruining calamities: land closures from fire danger or logging operations, predator takeovers (one hunter had 19 different bears on his cameras!), roadkill disasters, stolen gear, and perhaps worst of all—loose lips revealing your hard-earned spots to others. Each challenge requires different mitigation strategies, but they all demand the same core response: mental toughness and adaptability.
The secret to surviving when your hunt unravels isn't just having backup spots—though we strongly advocate for this approach. It's developing the mindset that allows you to work through frustration and disappointment. As Dave reflects on hunting a buck named Clooney through countless sits until "the last 15 minutes of the last day," he reveals the perspective that separates successful hunters from those who give up.
Remember, before there was Hightower or Hank the Tank, there was Clooney, Deuce and a Half, and Goliath. Big bucks are everywhere if you know how to find them. Let's help you develop that skill set so when—not if—your season goes south, you're prepared not just with backup plans, but with the resilience to keep pursuing your passion.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach.
I'm Aaron.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And I'm Dave.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
So this week's episode, when it All Goes South,
when the things come up thatruin your hunt or greatly alter
the ability to hunt that year oryour outcomes for that year.
So we'll cover a few differenttopics that are related to when
it goes south.
(00:24):
But what prompted this?
Dave, I know the wound is freshbut, why don't you share with
us what prompted this episode?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So what started us down this road was the fact that
I had a set called the LockerRoom and on this particular set,
I had three shooters, threebucks that would go Pope and
Young, two of which would be thebiggest bucks I've ever killed,
and the third one would makePope and Young, but I would
probably let him go one, maybetwo more years.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, you would have to, because you can only kill
one a year.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So I was probably going to let him walk and focus
more on the other two, and theother two were Hightower and
Hank the Tank and long storyshort.
I worked this set all summer soI found them in the spring,
found the habitat, went in therewithin 30 minutes.
I had a four point shed andanother three point shed that I
had found and was really youknow I mean of course that just
(01:24):
makes you really optimistic andexcited and everything.
And I spent all summer puttingout minerals and doing protein
and getting these buckspatterned and everything.
Then they shed the velvet andI'm heading out there watching,
you know, the five factors.
I watched the five factors.
I had three out of the fivefactors.
I watched the five factors.
I had three out of the five,five factors being moon phase,
(01:47):
20 degree swing and temperature,barometric pressure.
Those are the three that I had.
What I didn't have wasobviously a storm front, in
front of or behind, or a rutphase, yeah, which was, which is
, you know, something that Iwasn't even anticipating in
September.
So I took and I was watching allof that and then one evening I
(02:11):
had three out of the five and Ithought this is the night I'm
going to kill Hightower becausehe's number one on my list, on
my hit list, and I went outthere this early season and I
got there and access was deniedto everybody because somebody
had gone up and dumped garbageand so I had worked all summer,
or I have worked all summer, soyou were on.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
just to clarify, you were on public land, because we
always hunt public land.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But you were crossing through private property.
An easement, an easementthrough a private property which
accessed the which everybodywas doing, which everybody was
doing.
So you weren't sneaking onproperty, it just that was the
way that you accessed that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, and somebody had gone up there and dumped and
so they just pretty much shutdown that entire access point
and I was left kind of standingthere, you know, holding my bow
going.
Okay, what do I do now?
And I get home and I still gota camera up there and and I
looked at my camera and 40minutes before dark high tower
daylights and I knew he wasgonna and all I could do is sit
(03:12):
there and watch him on my camera.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
In season.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In season.
Yeah, and and yeah, it was anight I was going out there to
hunt him and it was also thesame night that that our pro
staff, chris, killed Bambino.
So I'm rejoicing with him andthen I'm crying in my coffee
over mine.
But, like I said, the blacktail coach, if it's anything,
it's locating big black tailbucks, so mature black tail
(03:36):
bucks, and so typically in anormal season I usually don't
start till the day afterextended buck.
It's not that I'm not worried,it's obviously a downer.
It's obviously a downer, it's ahuge downer.
I put in a lot of work.
Yeah.
And looking at the two biggestbucks I would have ever
harvested.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, and monitoring your set with minerals making
sure those were fresh.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I got thousands of pictures too of both of those,
not just those two bucks, but Imean there's probably eight
bucks on that set.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It was the honey hole .
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It really was.
And yeah, that's a hard pill toswallow, but I mean, that's the
way seasons go, you know lastyear the season was just, it was
unseasonably warm and we hadvery little deer activity.
So I mean, every season has ahurdle, and so we decided to do
an episode on just that, when itall goes south, because every
(04:28):
season has hurdles, every seasonhas has obstacles that you have
to overcome, and some seasonsare obviously easier than others
, and some seasons it feels likea grind all the way to the end
yeah you know, and so we thoughtwe'd just talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, and so one of the things about this system
which is, I would say, reallygreat is you had your honey hole
, but Chris's buck, that wasanother set, another honey hole.
Yeah, great bucks in there,yeah, so it's not like there's
only one.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, no, no or two.
There are a lot of these spotsout in the woods, it's just you
have to know how to access themRight.
And you got to remind yourselfthat too, because that's the
hard part, you know so I was.
It just was kind of a snowballeffect.
That same week my dog died andyou know so I was really upset
over that.
That was a really hard blow totake, and then on top of that I
(05:23):
lose this spot, you know, and soyou start crying in your coffee
a little bit.
But the reality is is beforethere was Hightower, before
there was Hank the Tank, therewas Clooney, and then there was
Deuce and a Half, and then therewas Goliath, you know, and the
list of names goes on and on andon and lucky.
And I mean, yeah, so there's bigbucks everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, it's just how to find them Right and then
going after them, and it's a bigreason why we also encourage
guys to have more than one set.
Absolutely you know I've got,and you still have, a couple
sets left over from last year,two or three.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Or for your whole family.
Actually it's several.
You know I've got my three fromlast year, but it's just.
It's one of those where you getin the habit where, even if you
don't work a set, you alwaysare looking for that next set,
yeah, and it's addictive, isn'tit yeah?
As you're driving along thefreeway or driving along along a
(06:20):
road and you're looking outinto the oh well, there's some
habitat that I should probablycheck out.
Oh, that looks good.
And just to pass the time, onyxis open on our phones and just
scrolling through.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Hmm, that might be a good spot to go check out at
some point, and it's funnybecause at bootcamp I tell the
guys by the time it's over,because you drive out to
bootcamp, to the facility thatwe have it at, and you're
passing all this great blacktailcountry but you don't recognize
it as great blacktail countrybecause you've been raised to
hunt clear cuts yeah but when wego over the locating and the
(06:53):
habitat that we're looking for,you find yourself, like you're
saying, as you're driving,you're looking constantly yeah
you know and you realize wow,there was so much more great
blacktail habitat that I justdidn't even recognize.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So ways to mitigate season going south, but it does
happen and so we're going tocover a few.
There's a couple, because we'rehunting public lands, we can
lose access because they put ina gate or they close the gate
(07:30):
and it just becomes untenable tomaybe walk that far back in or
it's closed for logging.
So for a couple of months oneof my sets the main line that
went back there and granted, itwas only half a mile in but it
was closed to all public accessbecause of a logging operation
that was happening.
So you couldn't go past thegate Right, otherwise you're
(07:51):
looking at a fine.
So fortunately that didn't gointo season, but there's always
they close the.
You know a lot of the timbercompanies will close their lands
because of fire danger, so youcan't access anything during the
summer.
Typically that doesn't spillover.
It can spill over if you doearly archery.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, and I've seen it go to well into October.
Yeah.
You know we've we have thatthose El Nino years.
Some of them get pretty dry andwarm, and it can carry on quite
a ways, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I believe the Sierra Pacific land which is what we
hunt, reopened mid-Septemberlast year.
So if you wanted to do earlyarchery those first two, two and
a half weeks, they were closeto you.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, and that's always a threat that
archery hunters especiallyarchery hunters have to deal
with on this side and stuff.
But, it goes back to what we'vesaid before Don't put all your
eggs in one basket.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Because, if you do, eventually you're going to end
up getting frustrated and it'sgoing to come back to bite you
and you can also lose it because, as in your case, while the
land that you might be on ispublic land, your access might
be private property, so youmight lose just the access
aspect of it and there's no wayto get around that Right right,
(09:09):
or the easement that they dohave is really untraveled.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You can't travel it.
Yeah, it's just too dangerous.
It's either too steep or it'stoo overgrown, so there's a
multitude of things that couldhappen there.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Another thing that can be pretty common up until
the start of November when westart having those frosts and
the bears go down.
So basically, predators ingeneral, but the bears
especially.
This year, in fact, one of ourguys, the coach was talking
about he had 19 bears on all ofhis sets.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I was wondering if you were going to bring that up.
Yeah, 19 bears, I don't sets.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was wondering if you were going to bring that up.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, 19 bears.
I don't know how many sets hehad, but he had 19 bears total
and, honestly, how do you notget frustrated when you're
dealing with?
I mean, if that's not atestament to how just out of
balance this whole thing is herein Washington, I don't know
what is 19 bears.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I had at least five.
No, that's crazy One, two,three, four, five, six.
I had six bears that I caughton camera.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That's crazy With one cub.
And now, granted, that's earlyon and it might not be an issue
come season, especially thatlate modern, when I when I go
out hunting right and modern,but early modern it probably
will be yeah I know it was lastyear and throughout the summer
if you're trying to do mineralswith protein yeah you're really
(10:38):
going to struggle becausethey're going to come in and
they're going to you knowanything big and jay or or
evolved harvest anything thathas any I don't care if it's a
tablespoon of sugar in it andthey're going to, you know,
anything big in J or EvolveHarvest anything that has any.
I don't care if it has atablespoon of sugar in it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
They will come in.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They're going to find it, you know, and it makes it
frustrating.
It makes it hard to really tryand catalog what you've got in
your range.
You know, as far as thedrainage maybe you're hunting,
or the jack for patch you'rehunting, whatever it may be.
It makes it really difficult tocatalog those deer and even elk
(11:13):
, for that matter.
You know the bears and I'm no,I got nothing against bears.
I think they taste great.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
They're delicious.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, but it's like there has to be a balance and
and it's just it's way out ofwhack yeah, but it's one of
those things that can absolutelyif anything, it can just be
very discouraging.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and when you're walking and I had bears on all
my sits last year as well, butcome season it, it didn't become
an issue right, it can.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It can derail you.
Yeah, it can.
It doesn't always, but it can.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But if you're using any, like you said, any type of
attractants, anything thatsmells good and that's a lot of
the attractants that we use Bigand Jay products they just bring
in the bears.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, we're hoping to bring in the does, but it
brings in the bears.
Yeah, and one of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It brought in everything basically, but I must
have had 100 pictures of bears.
I had a cub who just 80pictures of this cub.
He just hung out for half hourat a time, multiple times on my
set, and all I had down it wassome Big N' J and some minerals.
Right so salts, which generallydon't bring them in.
(12:24):
But yeah, the protein.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I've had them on the Hodag scent rope.
Yeah.
And it's just like are youserious?
I can't do anything, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yep, and cougars too.
They'll just drive everythingout of there, right, but they're
not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
They're not as prevalent, but they're a lot
more prevalent than they used tobe oh yeah it used to be a
rarity where you would get apicture of a cat on your trail
camera, and now it's a rarity ifyou don't.
I mean, everybody gets pictures.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I got a great picture of a cat on one of mine yeah,
you did which was kind ofamazing because you know, I had
lots of deer pictures, one witha doe with two fawns, and then
next day the cat comes walkingby and then the next day the
doe's back with her fawns.
So they're, they're just kindof all hanging out in the same
area, but not, my point beingthey're not quite as much of an
(13:20):
issue as the bears, because thebears are just getting out of
hand.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah Well, last year my son was targeting a nice four
by four buck.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Forgot about that one .
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And it showed up on camera one day with the bottom
jaw almost ripped completely off.
It was actually hanging there.
Yeah.
And Cougar, when they go fordeer they either go for the
throat or they go for the snout,and I think the cat got that
buck because my wife was over, Iwon't say in the same area, but
she was over in that locationas far as this particular she
(13:53):
was at the other end.
How?
Can I?
say that About a mile away, andshe had a set there and we had
plenty of deer coming in on thatand all of a sudden we got a
cat picture, which I'm sure it'sthe same cat, and that was it
for deer activity for this, forthe season.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
On that for the season.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, that one just died yeah, it did not produce
anything after that yeah itdidn't matter how much of the
scents and pheromones we put out.
We couldn't pull anything in onthat and it was a shame that
was.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That was a really nice buck that dj had on, yeah,
oh yeah and he was.
He was being so optimisticgreat kid just being optimistic
that, oh well, he might make itto season.
Yeah, he can't eat.
Yeah, he's doomed yeah, but oneof those things and his season.
One of those things his seasoncould have gone south, could
(14:43):
have thrown up his hands andjust said forget it, Double down
.
He had another set and he stillgot a three by three.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So he got a nice little buck, got a great buck
and, like you said, he couldhave thrown his and had plenty
of opportunities to give up.
Yeah.
Kudos to him.
He grinded it out and heactually got a nice buck at the
end, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So another thing that I kind of mentioned was the
logging.
So earlier this summer on oneof my sets I couldn't access for
a couple of months and it's nota big deal because I just knew,
well, I'll come back in a monthand check it out and it was
fine, I could get back in afterthat.
But one of them they came inand cleared what I thought was
one of the core areas, the corebedding areas, and they thinned
(15:25):
it.
Now it probably pushed themover some.
But when I'm set up my areasthat I find and I find really
good areas set up right outsideof that bedding area to wait for
them.
Well, if they're not going tohang out necessarily in there
this coming hunting season, okay, well, that negates that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, it's not worth your time to sit there.
Yeah, and, and you know, thebigger, the better bedding area,
the better off you are, justfor the simple fact that
something like that can happen.
They came in and they thinnedit.
They didn't thin everything,they just thinned a portion of
it, so you still had a littlebit of bedding area left yeah
now whether that's enough tomake a big buck feel safe, we'll
(16:05):
have to wait and see.
But if it's a really big beddingarea and they and they come in
and they thin just a portion ofit, well then you're still fine,
yeah and I.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
My area is a corridor , old skidder road in between a
couple bedding areas, so theyprobably just shifted to the
other one.
But the nice thing about it wasif they're traveling between
those, and that's what I waspicking up on camera.
But even after they thinned it,I still got the does on camera,
so they're still using it.
But I think it's one of thosewhere let it set for a year and
(16:38):
come back and see what happens.
Hey, I got a joke for you whydid the deer cross the road?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I have no idea.
To ruin your new truck and yourhunt, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So you know two things If you buy a brand new
truck, you're probably going tohit a deer.
I think that's just Murphy'sLaw.
Given We've been talking aboutthis all summer, we've never
seen as many big bucks on theside of the road that have been
hit as this year Wow.
A lot of deer.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Wow, and my wife's was one of them.
Her target buck got hit.
And it's not like we're talkingurban deer or anything like
that, we're talking out in thecountry.
It's just like everywhere wewent, there was deer on the side
of the road that had just beenhit.
And it's like everywhere wewent, there was deer on the side
of the road that had just beenhit.
You know, and it's like yougotta be kidding me, there's
gotta be a lot.
I mean, I need to start openinga body shop or something.
(17:30):
I'm in the.
I missed my calling, I guess.
Yeah.
But yeah, it was one of thoseyears where there just was a
great survival rate from lastwinter, probably because it was
so warm and we just saw a lot ofdeer, but we saw a lot of big
bucks crossing roads, gettinghit and it was.
It was really kind of strangethat way, but yeah, that's
(17:50):
something that we experienced.
So asha, you know again, is islike well, regroup and start
over yeah I mean, you can sitthere and get upset and cry in
your coffee and all that, but itain't helping you find another
buck.
You know, and and the?
The reality is like I saidbefore there's a lot of big
bucks out there.
There are.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
There just is.
You know, well, we had aroundhere, around your house, there
was a really big one that I sawone day last year, but then
there's three mauler bucks,which two of them were still
fairly nice.
Right.
One was really nice, but againall three of them out in the
yard one day that I saw.
(18:28):
But, yeah, multiple bucks outthere.
So we saw one that got hit andunfortunately it was Cliff.
That was his name, but there'sstill a couple more out there.
Hopefully, unless they got hitfurther up the road, they still
haven't made a reappearance.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Explain Cliff.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Cliff.
Oh well, hit further up theroad they still haven't made a
reappearance explain cliff,cliff.
Oh well, he's a regular, socheers, yeah, cliff clavin,
cliff clavin, so and kind ofclueless.
So we I remember last year wasthe fourth of july party and
cliff is out in the yard becauseyou do a mineral set kind of in
the middle of the yard just forpicture purposes only.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And testing product.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And testing product, and so Cliff came in.
The whole party's going on.
He's what, 100 feet away fromall of us.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And just licking the protein block and everything
else.
Then your son lights off $1,000worth of fireworks, mortars, bo
booms, everything going off,and then the the show ends and
15 minutes later cliff comeswalking back out of the woods
and starts licking the uh, theprotein block again so in light
(19:35):
of all of that, you kind of knowwhy cliff got hit by.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, he wasn't the brightest bulb.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But that's all part of naming, making it personal.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It all ties together somehow.
Yep.
The last one is I just putloose lips, so this is, and this
is, an unfortunate one.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
This one here and I'm glad we included it, you know,
because it is unfortunate.
Glad we included it, you know,because it is unfortunate
Everybody that and for exampleour pro staffer, chris, just
killed Bambino, which is is abuck.
He's got the CSI guy scoring itand he says it's going to go
over 140.
And I told Chris that itdefinitely is, and it's just a
beautiful, beautiful buck.
(20:18):
And you know, you put it onsocial media, whether it's
Facebook or Instagram and allthat stuff, and immediately you
start getting people saying, hey, way to go, great job, and
that's awesome, but there'salways that one guy that's going
to come back with well, it wasall luck and all this stuff, and
we're going to do an episode onthat.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, it was luck.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But I'm saying all this to say that you really got
to be careful who you tell.
And I warn Chris, be carefulabout who you tell.
And Aaron, you know that I'veexperienced this, my wife knows
I've experienced this.
When you start killing bigbucks, guys start following you.
Guys start trying to figure outwhere you're hunting.
So lips is is not just somebodyelse talking about where you're
(21:05):
hunting, as much as it's,sometimes it's your loose lips
letting it slip where you'rehunting yeah and it's sad that
you have to be secretive.
But if you're not, guys aregonna I mean people that you
thought were friends are gonnaslip in there and they're gonna
cork you yeah, and then it's.
I don't.
I.
I'm sorry that I say it likethat.
I'm sorry that it is that way.
(21:27):
I wish it wasn't, and I thinkit's the rarity of the fact that
it's a trophy black tail buck.
Yeah.
You know that there are so fewguys that get the record book
bucks.
And they don't know how toconsistently get them Right, and
so just try to catch thetailings, so they think if
they're just in the same area asyou they can get it done and
(21:49):
sometimes they do, sometimesthey do you know, but, like you
said, consistently well, it'snot where we're hunting,
necessarily, it's how we'rehunting.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know, it's a whole system.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Exactly.
It's more than just one pieceof the puzzle, and so you know,
all it takes to ruin a honeyhole is one guy.
Yeah.
You know what I mean One guythat wants to, you know, sound
important or come across as abetter hunter or a much more
successful hunter to impresssomebody else.
Hey, I know a spot, hey, youknow, and he may not hunt it.
(22:23):
It may be your spot, but he'sgoing to take other people in,
but he'll take.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
They'll take other people in, yeah, and then you're
done and it's it's over.
And yeah, they hunted out.
And then you have to waitmultiple years and hope that the
genetics of the big buck thatyou got and pulled out of there
stayed in there Right out ofthere stayed in there Right,
because it can ruin the geneticsin the area too.
If you're pulling out thatdominant buck before he's really
(22:54):
either had the chance or youget his lineage and pull it out
of there.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, Right and honestly.
That's why the Blacktail Coachexists we want to help guys get
bucks.
Yeah.
I want to teach guys how to getbig, mature blacktail bucks.
You take the course.
I got no secrets.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I'm laying it all out there.
I'm showing you everything.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I'm answering every question you want, so there's no
reason to try and sneak in.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And it's a big part of our coaching.
It's a big part of our coachingbecause we ask that people
share their onX, the screenshotsand their pictures and
everything else Right, but wehave the hard and fast rule If
you steal someone's spot, you'regone.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Because we don't—.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
There is no refund, you're just done.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, we don't want that as part of this community.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Of you know that we're trying to put together and
, plus, we're helping you findmore spots.
You know it gets to the point.
I don't feel like I need to gotake anybody's spot Right.
In fact there's and there it'sa different type and I think
most guys are appreciate thefact that they've done the work
(24:05):
and they appreciate that it wasthem who found the spot Right.
It's like I could go swipe yourspot, but then it's not all me,
it's that level of dishonestykind of taints your success.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Well, any hunter that has any kind of character would
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Unfortunately, there are those out there that don't
have that kind of character.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, and there are a few and if, if you're new to
the hunting community, you knowit's one of those, you got to
use more caution and as you getto know more guys in the hunting
community, you find out whothey are right, there are givers
and takers, and some of thetakers will always be takers
yeah they'll never be givers,unfortunately, but, like, like I
(24:48):
said, it just takes one guy toto ruin a honey hole, you know,
and the thing is, is is what,since we're talking about it is,
is that skill set of locatinganother one is the one that
we're trying to teach you know,
Speaker 2 (25:01):
that's one that the guys that get into the coaching
or or the seminars we're tryingto teach you that skill set.
I'm showing you the habitat I'mgoing to, you know, show you
exactly what you need to lookfor, and so you're going to walk
away with that skill set.
So there's no reason that youneed to depend on anyone else.
You know what I mean.
You have that skill set andyou're able to do it for
(25:23):
yourself every year.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Every year, and so another one, and I put it under
the loose lips category, but itfits into that stolen gear, and
you've had cameras stolen.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I've had cameras stolen.
I've had tree stands stolen.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I had a dripper stolen last year and it's funny,
I've had a lot of my dripper.
Wasn't too far away from mycamera, but people didn't,
didn't see the camera.
But yeah, for some reason theyhad to grab that five dollar
scrape bomb.
It's like, okay, well, ifthat's all I lost, I'll count it
as a as a win there.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I've had four cameras , two tree stands and hopefully
that's it, you know.
Yeah, knock on wood.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And hopefully now and granted, some areas like my
areas are all non-cell, there'sno cell signal Right.
So my cameras, even thoughthey're all cell cameras, I
can't activate that.
So there are times where youcan get the picture and have it
sent to your phone and you'recatching pictures.
And we had one of our pro stafflast year.
(26:31):
He actually got pictures of theguy coming in, but he would
come in and turn off his cameraevery time just to kind of mess
with him, but he put a littlenote in there.
You know, if you're reading this, I've got pictures of you
already and they've already beensent to my phone and I will
come and get you.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I know exactly who you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Which was hilarious.
Yeah, there's always the riskof your gear getting stolen, and
if you're hunting on a limitedbudget, you know you're working
towards building up a gear.
If you have two or threecameras and two of them get
stolen, yeah, that sucks.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it's hard to have any kind of remorse
for somebody that steals.
Yeah.
At least that's how I feel aboutit.
You know it's like everybodyout there we work jobs, we pay
(27:26):
our bills, we work hard, we saveto buy these there's.
You know this equipment that wecan use to help us.
You know figure out location,figure out timing, figure out.
You know this equipment that wecan use to to help us.
You know figure out location,figure out timing, figure out.
You know cataloging what's outthere and stuff like tree stands
and climbing sticks and allthat.
And then you got some guycoming along that thinks that he
deserves to benefit fromsomebody being trusting that.
That just it really drives mecrazy.
Yeah.
It ought not to be that way, butunfortunately we don't live in
(27:46):
a perfect world.
It is what it is and and ifguys want that stuff, they'll do
what they have to.
Yeah, you know.
I've had them cut cable, I'vehad them just about everything
to get my equipment out of there, and maybe I'm foolish, but I
still leave it out there.
Yeah, you know.
I don't see because of wherewe're hunting.
I don't see near the amount ofpeople.
Yeah.
(28:06):
That I used to when I firststarted archery hunting back
when I was 18.
But because of the location ofwhere I'm at, and when I say
that I mean Habitat, I don't seea lot of guys.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I had last year two on my set.
Each set I had a mushroompicker or something like I think
.
I just assumed it was amushroom picker, but you could
tell by the equipment that theywere carrying that it was
something like that.
And then I got another guy whoI caught him a couple times on
camera during elk, right beforelate season.
(28:40):
Right and just walking by notreally noticing.
You know what was going on.
And actually I got him on thisspring on camera as well, going
into one of the areas.
But yeah, don't notice thecameras, which is thankful.
Yeah.
Thankful for that, because theymight help themselves.
But yep yeah, I get a few guys,but we hunt those areas that
(29:03):
it's not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, we just don't see guys coming in yeah, where
it's not the traditional spotthat that you would, that most
guys would, would go to yeah youknow, for whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
If you're doing spot and stock or if you're glassing
clear cuts, things like that.
So I didn't actually have ithere on the script, but I think
we should probably talk aboutmindset, because we talked about
we have backup, but notnecessarily just mindset.
But how do you work throughthese things happening?
(29:35):
You a plan helps that backup.
It's going to be discouragingwhen one of these happens
somebody steals your spot, youlose your access.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Right, right.
So when I do my seminars andthe online classes and
everything I do a whole sectionon mindset, and that mindset is
typically geared toward what areyou going to do when you have a
record book mature black tailbuck standing at less than 20
yards in front of you?
Because that's with my systemit's usually inside of 15 yards.
(30:09):
Yeah.
And that's just how I've beenable to tailor this and make it
so that when you do have thatopportunity, it's in your lap.
But last year was a greatexample of just the grind.
Guys were frustrated andeverything, and so mindset goes
beyond just having the buck infront of you.
It is what is going to keep youin the game after that buck.
(30:34):
To get it in front of you, youknow, to get to that opportunity
, to get to that moment where,here he is, he's actually
stepped into my shooting lane,he's at my kill spot.
Now I can take him.
So, like I said, there's a lotof hurdles for every season.
Yeah.
And so there are those seasons.
I experienced one last year.
I went out first day of lateseason.
I had COVID finally got throughthat was able to get up and go
(30:58):
do an evening hunt.
My son came and filmed for meand I killed Lucky.
Yeah.
So that season, that archeryseason, that archery late season
, which is what I saved my tagfor lasted probably five hours,
okay, from the time that I gotthere to the time I shot him.
Not every season's like that.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes I'll put in18 sits in a tree stand before I
(31:20):
finally get that opportunity.
I'll pass up a number of bucksto get to that one buck, clooney
.
I hunted from the opener oflate season to and I had picture
after picture after picture ofthat buck, but that cat and
mouse game, he kept outsmartingme.
He did not show up until thelast 15 minutes of the last day
(31:43):
that that unit was open and Ifinally arrowed him.
Now, I sat through a lot ofrainstorms, I sat through some
snow flurries, I sat through alot of cold weather and whatnot.
My daughter got in a caraccident, my wife and my son
were in India at a wedding, andyou know so it was like there
was a lot of things that weregoing on that I don't want to
(32:05):
say they were distractions.
You know, obviously the healthand safety of my family is
number one, but I still had tostay in the game.
I still had to find motivationto get up and keep going and
keep myself there.
Well, it could happen today.
It could happen today.
It could happen, you know,because it was a lot of sits.
Yeah.
You know, I put in a lot oftime and at the end there I was
(32:26):
getting a little discouraged,you know.
I mean I've gotten pictures ofthis buck daylighting and he
just got my number.
For some reason he just is notthere when I'm there.
And that's the way it is withevery season.
You know, whatever that hurdleis, you've got to convince
yourself to you.
You know you you can't let itwin.
You can't let that buck win yeahyou know I got a guy that I elk
(32:49):
hunt with.
That, you know, tells me allthe time in the mornings I hate
morning hunts just for the factthat I got to get up at four
o'clock every single day and hejust looks over me and he goes
Elk, don't care how tired youare.
And that's part of making itpersonal.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So also thinking about, especially with things
that could make your season gosouth, is everything we
mentioned.
There's workarounds, so a job Iused to have years ago, so a
job I used to have years ago andI bring this up in interviews
in jobs that I'm interviewingfor about struggles.
And I said well, at this otherjob, so I had to staff multiple
(33:26):
people at multiple locations inthe evenings and I said two
nights a year, half my staffwould call in sick.
And then what two nights werethose?
And I said I had no idea.
But two nights a year I wouldhave half my staff call in sick.
And then what two nights werethose?
And I said I had no idea.
But two nights a year I wouldhave half my staff calling sick.
So I had to be ready at amoment's notice to have things
go south, and so I planned aheadfor things going south and I
(33:49):
always had a contingency plan.
And that's the same way withthis.
We have backup sets, we havebackup cameras.
You start building up the gearand you're prepared for the
worst, but you're making thingswork out for the best.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Right, right, plan for the worst and everything
else is easy.
Yeah.
I went to a guy.
I went to school with a guy inhigh school that was a catcher
for a baseball team and he wouldsay that all the time that the
coach would be like how come,what are you doing?
I'm planning for the worst, andeverything else is easy.
Yeah, you know, I'm planningfor that bad pitch in the dirt
over my head, behind the batter,you know, and everything else.
(34:25):
It's going to be a cakewalk.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, and you don't have to dwell on it being
negative.
It's just you've made a planand that's why we really push
creating a hunting plan with ourguys.
This is your plan.
You know things go south.
Just look at your plan, workyour plan, work your plan.
So hopefully that helps keepyou focused and with a positive
(34:46):
attitude this coming season, incase things go south.
We're hoping that they don'tfor you, because we want to see
your buck picks.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So if you are listening to this podcast and
you get a buck, pickblacktailcoach at gmailcom.
We'd love to see your picture,hear your story, whether you've
taken our class or not, but we'dlove to share that picture for
you on all of our social media.
We want to celebrate with you.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So anyway, we'll see you next week, and thanks for
joining us.
Thank you.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach.
I'm Aaron.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And I'm Dave.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
So this week's episode, when it All Goes South,
when the things come up thatruin your hunt or greatly alter
the ability to hunt that year oryour outcomes for that year.
So we'll cover a few differenttopics that are related to when
it goes south.
(00:24):
But what prompted this?
Dave, I know the wound is freshbut, why don't you share with
us what prompted this episode?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So what started us down this road was the fact that
I had a set called the LockerRoom and on this particular set,
I had three shooters, threebucks that would go Pope and
Young, two of which would be thebiggest bucks I've ever killed,
and the third one would makePope and Young, but I would
probably let him go one, maybetwo more years.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, you would have to, because you can only kill
one a year.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So I was probably going to let him walk and focus
more on the other two, and theother two were Hightower and
Hank the Tank and long storyshort.
I worked this set all summer soI found them in the spring,
found the habitat, went in therewithin 30 minutes.
I had a four point shed andanother three point shed that I
had found and was really youknow I mean of course that just
(01:24):
makes you really optimistic andexcited and everything.
And I spent all summer puttingout minerals and doing protein
and getting these buckspatterned and everything.
Then they shed the velvet andI'm heading out there watching,
you know, the five factors.
I watched the five factors.
I had three out of the fivefactors.
I watched the five factors.
I had three out of the five,five factors being moon phase,
(01:47):
20 degree swing and temperature,barometric pressure.
Those are the three that I had.
What I didn't have wasobviously a storm front, in
front of or behind, or a rutphase, yeah, which was, which is
, you know, something that Iwasn't even anticipating in
September.
So I took and I was watching allof that and then one evening I
(02:11):
had three out of the five and Ithought this is the night I'm
going to kill Hightower becausehe's number one on my list, on
my hit list, and I went outthere this early season and I
got there and access was deniedto everybody because somebody
had gone up and dumped garbageand so I had worked all summer,
or I have worked all summer, soyou were on.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
just to clarify, you were on public land, because we
always hunt public land.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But you were crossing through private property.
An easement, an easementthrough a private property which
accessed the which everybodywas doing, which everybody was
doing.
So you weren't sneaking onproperty, it just that was the
way that you accessed that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, and somebody had gone up there and dumped and
so they just pretty much shutdown that entire access point
and I was left kind of standingthere, you know, holding my bow
going.
Okay, what do I do now?
And I get home and I still gota camera up there and and I
looked at my camera and 40minutes before dark high tower
daylights and I knew he wasgonna and all I could do is sit
(03:12):
there and watch him on my camera.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
In season.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In season.
Yeah, and and yeah, it was anight I was going out there to
hunt him and it was also thesame night that that our pro
staff, chris, killed Bambino.
So I'm rejoicing with him andthen I'm crying in my coffee
over mine.
But, like I said, the blacktail coach, if it's anything,
it's locating big black tailbucks, so mature black tail
(03:36):
bucks, and so typically in anormal season I usually don't
start till the day afterextended buck.
It's not that I'm not worried,it's obviously a downer.
It's obviously a downer, it's ahuge downer.
I put in a lot of work.
Yeah.
And looking at the two biggestbucks I would have ever
harvested.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, and monitoring your set with minerals making
sure those were fresh.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I got thousands of pictures too of both of those,
not just those two bucks, but Imean there's probably eight
bucks on that set.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It was the honey hole .
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It really was.
And yeah, that's a hard pill toswallow, but I mean, that's the
way seasons go, you know lastyear the season was just, it was
unseasonably warm and we hadvery little deer activity.
So I mean, every season has ahurdle, and so we decided to do
an episode on just that, when itall goes south, because every
(04:28):
season has hurdles, every seasonhas has obstacles that you have
to overcome, and some seasonsare obviously easier than others
, and some seasons it feels likea grind all the way to the end
yeah you know, and so we thoughtwe'd just talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, and so one of the things about this system
which is, I would say, reallygreat is you had your honey hole
, but Chris's buck, that wasanother set, another honey hole.
Yeah, great bucks in there,yeah, so it's not like there's
only one.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, no, no or two.
There are a lot of these spotsout in the woods, it's just you
have to know how to access themRight.
And you got to remind yourselfthat too, because that's the
hard part, you know so I was.
It just was kind of a snowballeffect.
That same week my dog died andyou know so I was really upset
over that.
That was a really hard blow totake, and then on top of that I
(05:23):
lose this spot, you know, and soyou start crying in your coffee
a little bit.
But the reality is is beforethere was Hightower, before
there was Hank the Tank, therewas Clooney, and then there was
Deuce and a Half, and then therewas Goliath, you know, and the
list of names goes on and on andon and lucky.
And I mean, yeah, so there's bigbucks everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, it's just how to find them Right and then
going after them, and it's a bigreason why we also encourage
guys to have more than one set.
Absolutely you know I've got,and you still have, a couple
sets left over from last year,two or three.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Or for your whole family.
Actually it's several.
You know I've got my three fromlast year, but it's just.
It's one of those where you getin the habit where, even if you
don't work a set, you alwaysare looking for that next set,
yeah, and it's addictive, isn'tit yeah?
As you're driving along thefreeway or driving along along a
(06:20):
road and you're looking outinto the oh well, there's some
habitat that I should probablycheck out.
Oh, that looks good.
And just to pass the time, onyxis open on our phones and just
scrolling through.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Hmm, that might be a good spot to go check out at
some point, and it's funnybecause at bootcamp I tell the
guys by the time it's over,because you drive out to
bootcamp, to the facility thatwe have it at, and you're
passing all this great blacktailcountry but you don't recognize
it as great blacktail countrybecause you've been raised to
hunt clear cuts yeah but when wego over the locating and the
(06:53):
habitat that we're looking for,you find yourself, like you're
saying, as you're driving,you're looking constantly yeah
you know and you realize wow,there was so much more great
blacktail habitat that I justdidn't even recognize.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So ways to mitigate season going south, but it does
happen and so we're going tocover a few.
There's a couple, because we'rehunting public lands, we can
lose access because they put ina gate or they close the gate
(07:30):
and it just becomes untenable tomaybe walk that far back in or
it's closed for logging.
So for a couple of months oneof my sets the main line that
went back there and granted, itwas only half a mile in but it
was closed to all public accessbecause of a logging operation
that was happening.
So you couldn't go past thegate Right, otherwise you're
(07:51):
looking at a fine.
So fortunately that didn't gointo season, but there's always
they close the.
You know a lot of the timbercompanies will close their lands
because of fire danger, so youcan't access anything during the
summer.
Typically that doesn't spillover.
It can spill over if you doearly archery.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, and I've seen it go to well into October.
Yeah.
You know we've we have thatthose El Nino years.
Some of them get pretty dry andwarm, and it can carry on quite
a ways, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I believe the Sierra Pacific land which is what we
hunt, reopened mid-Septemberlast year.
So if you wanted to do earlyarchery those first two, two and
a half weeks, they were closeto you.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, and that's always a threat that
archery hunters especiallyarchery hunters have to deal
with on this side and stuff.
But, it goes back to what we'vesaid before Don't put all your
eggs in one basket.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Because, if you do, eventually you're going to end
up getting frustrated and it'sgoing to come back to bite you
and you can also lose it because, as in your case, while the
land that you might be on ispublic land, your access might
be private property, so youmight lose just the access
aspect of it and there's no wayto get around that Right right,
(09:09):
or the easement that they dohave is really untraveled.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You can't travel it.
Yeah, it's just too dangerous.
It's either too steep or it'stoo overgrown, so there's a
multitude of things that couldhappen there.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Another thing that can be pretty common up until
the start of November when westart having those frosts and
the bears go down.
So basically, predators ingeneral, but the bears
especially.
This year, in fact, one of ourguys, the coach was talking
about he had 19 bears on all ofhis sets.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I was wondering if you were going to bring that up.
Yeah, 19 bears, I don't sets.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was wondering if you were going to bring that up.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, 19 bears.
I don't know how many sets hehad, but he had 19 bears total
and, honestly, how do you notget frustrated when you're
dealing with?
I mean, if that's not atestament to how just out of
balance this whole thing is herein Washington, I don't know
what is 19 bears.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I had at least five.
No, that's crazy One, two,three, four, five, six.
I had six bears that I caughton camera.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That's crazy With one cub.
And now, granted, that's earlyon and it might not be an issue
come season, especially thatlate modern, when I when I go
out hunting right and modern,but early modern it probably
will be yeah I know it was lastyear and throughout the summer
if you're trying to do mineralswith protein yeah you're really
(10:38):
going to struggle becausethey're going to come in and
they're going to you knowanything big and jay or or
evolved harvest anything thathas any I don't care if it's a
tablespoon of sugar in it andthey're going to, you know,
anything big in J or EvolveHarvest anything that has any.
I don't care if it has atablespoon of sugar in it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
They will come in.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They're going to find it, you know, and it makes it
frustrating.
It makes it hard to really tryand catalog what you've got in
your range.
You know, as far as thedrainage maybe you're hunting,
or the jack for patch you'rehunting, whatever it may be.
It makes it really difficult tocatalog those deer and even elk
(11:13):
, for that matter.
You know the bears and I'm no,I got nothing against bears.
I think they taste great.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
They're delicious.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, but it's like there has to be a balance and
and it's just it's way out ofwhack yeah, but it's one of
those things that can absolutelyif anything, it can just be
very discouraging.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and when you're walking and I had bears on all
my sits last year as well, butcome season it, it didn't become
an issue right, it can.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It can derail you.
Yeah, it can.
It doesn't always, but it can.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But if you're using any, like you said, any type of
attractants, anything thatsmells good and that's a lot of
the attractants that we use Bigand Jay products they just bring
in the bears.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, we're hoping to bring in the does, but it
brings in the bears.
Yeah, and one of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It brought in everything basically, but I must
have had 100 pictures of bears.
I had a cub who just 80pictures of this cub.
He just hung out for half hourat a time, multiple times on my
set, and all I had down it wassome Big N' J and some minerals.
Right so salts, which generallydon't bring them in.
(12:24):
But yeah, the protein.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I've had them on the Hodag scent rope.
Yeah.
And it's just like are youserious?
I can't do anything, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yep, and cougars too.
They'll just drive everythingout of there, right, but they're
not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
They're not as prevalent, but they're a lot
more prevalent than they used tobe oh yeah it used to be a
rarity where you would get apicture of a cat on your trail
camera, and now it's a rarity ifyou don't.
I mean, everybody gets pictures.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I got a great picture of a cat on one of mine yeah,
you did which was kind ofamazing because you know, I had
lots of deer pictures, one witha doe with two fawns, and then
next day the cat comes walkingby and then the next day the
doe's back with her fawns.
So they're, they're just kindof all hanging out in the same
area, but not, my point beingthey're not quite as much of an
(13:20):
issue as the bears, because thebears are just getting out of
hand.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah Well, last year my son was targeting a nice four
by four buck.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Forgot about that one .
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And it showed up on camera one day with the bottom
jaw almost ripped completely off.
It was actually hanging there.
Yeah.
And Cougar, when they go fordeer they either go for the
throat or they go for the snout,and I think the cat got that
buck because my wife was over, Iwon't say in the same area, but
she was over in that locationas far as this particular she
(13:53):
was at the other end.
How?
Can I?
say that About a mile away, andshe had a set there and we had
plenty of deer coming in on thatand all of a sudden we got a
cat picture, which I'm sure it'sthe same cat, and that was it
for deer activity for this, forthe season.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
On that for the season.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, that one just died yeah, it did not produce
anything after that yeah itdidn't matter how much of the
scents and pheromones we put out.
We couldn't pull anything in onthat and it was a shame that
was.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That was a really nice buck that dj had on, yeah,
oh yeah and he was.
He was being so optimisticgreat kid just being optimistic
that, oh well, he might make itto season.
Yeah, he can't eat.
Yeah, he's doomed yeah, but oneof those things and his season.
One of those things his seasoncould have gone south, could
(14:43):
have thrown up his hands andjust said forget it, Double down
.
He had another set and he stillgot a three by three.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So he got a nice little buck, got a great buck
and, like you said, he couldhave thrown his and had plenty
of opportunities to give up.
Yeah.
Kudos to him.
He grinded it out and heactually got a nice buck at the
end, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So another thing that I kind of mentioned was the
logging.
So earlier this summer on oneof my sets I couldn't access for
a couple of months and it's nota big deal because I just knew,
well, I'll come back in a monthand check it out and it was
fine, I could get back in afterthat.
But one of them they came inand cleared what I thought was
one of the core areas, the corebedding areas, and they thinned
(15:25):
it.
Now it probably pushed themover some.
But when I'm set up my areasthat I find and I find really
good areas set up right outsideof that bedding area to wait for
them.
Well, if they're not going tohang out necessarily in there
this coming hunting season, okay, well, that negates that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, it's not worth your time to sit there.
Yeah, and, and you know, thebigger, the better bedding area,
the better off you are, justfor the simple fact that
something like that can happen.
They came in and they thinnedit.
They didn't thin everything,they just thinned a portion of
it, so you still had a littlebit of bedding area left yeah
now whether that's enough tomake a big buck feel safe, we'll
(16:05):
have to wait and see.
But if it's a really big beddingarea and they and they come in
and they thin just a portion ofit, well then you're still fine,
yeah and I.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
My area is a corridor , old skidder road in between a
couple bedding areas, so theyprobably just shifted to the
other one.
But the nice thing about it wasif they're traveling between
those, and that's what I waspicking up on camera.
But even after they thinned it,I still got the does on camera,
so they're still using it.
But I think it's one of thosewhere let it set for a year and
(16:38):
come back and see what happens.
Hey, I got a joke for you whydid the deer cross the road?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I have no idea.
To ruin your new truck and yourhunt, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So you know two things If you buy a brand new
truck, you're probably going tohit a deer.
I think that's just Murphy'sLaw.
Given We've been talking aboutthis all summer, we've never
seen as many big bucks on theside of the road that have been
hit as this year Wow.
A lot of deer.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Wow, and my wife's was one of them.
Her target buck got hit.
And it's not like we're talkingurban deer or anything like
that, we're talking out in thecountry.
It's just like everywhere wewent, there was deer on the side
of the road that had just beenhit.
And it's like everywhere wewent, there was deer on the side
of the road that had just beenhit.
You know, and it's like yougotta be kidding me, there's
gotta be a lot.
I mean, I need to start openinga body shop or something.
(17:30):
I'm in the.
I missed my calling, I guess.
Yeah.
But yeah, it was one of thoseyears where there just was a
great survival rate from lastwinter, probably because it was
so warm and we just saw a lot ofdeer, but we saw a lot of big
bucks crossing roads, gettinghit and it was.
It was really kind of strangethat way, but yeah, that's
(17:50):
something that we experienced.
So asha, you know again, is islike well, regroup and start
over yeah I mean, you can sitthere and get upset and cry in
your coffee and all that, but itain't helping you find another
buck.
You know, and and the?
The reality is like I saidbefore there's a lot of big
bucks out there.
There are.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
There just is.
You know, well, we had aroundhere, around your house, there
was a really big one that I sawone day last year, but then
there's three mauler bucks,which two of them were still
fairly nice.
Right.
One was really nice, but againall three of them out in the
yard one day that I saw.
(18:28):
But, yeah, multiple bucks outthere.
So we saw one that got hit andunfortunately it was Cliff.
That was his name, but there'sstill a couple more out there.
Hopefully, unless they got hitfurther up the road, they still
haven't made a reappearance.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Explain Cliff.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Cliff.
Oh well, hit further up theroad they still haven't made a
reappearance explain cliff,cliff.
Oh well, he's a regular, socheers, yeah, cliff clavin,
cliff clavin, so and kind ofclueless.
So we I remember last year wasthe fourth of july party and
cliff is out in the yard becauseyou do a mineral set kind of in
the middle of the yard just forpicture purposes only.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And testing product.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And testing product, and so Cliff came in.
The whole party's going on.
He's what, 100 feet away fromall of us.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And just licking the protein block and everything
else.
Then your son lights off $1,000worth of fireworks, mortars, bo
booms, everything going off,and then the the show ends and
15 minutes later cliff comeswalking back out of the woods
and starts licking the uh, theprotein block again so in light
(19:35):
of all of that, you kind of knowwhy cliff got hit by.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, he wasn't the brightest bulb.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But that's all part of naming, making it personal.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It all ties together somehow.
Yep.
The last one is I just putloose lips, so this is, and this
is, an unfortunate one.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
This one here and I'm glad we included it, you know,
because it is unfortunate.
Glad we included it, you know,because it is unfortunate
Everybody that and for exampleour pro staffer, chris, just
killed Bambino, which is is abuck.
He's got the CSI guy scoring itand he says it's going to go
over 140.
And I told Chris that itdefinitely is, and it's just a
beautiful, beautiful buck.
(20:18):
And you know, you put it onsocial media, whether it's
Facebook or Instagram and allthat stuff, and immediately you
start getting people saying, hey, way to go, great job, and
that's awesome, but there'salways that one guy that's going
to come back with well, it wasall luck and all this stuff, and
we're going to do an episode onthat.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, it was luck.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But I'm saying all this to say that you really got
to be careful who you tell.
And I warn Chris, be carefulabout who you tell.
And Aaron, you know that I'veexperienced this, my wife knows
I've experienced this.
When you start killing bigbucks, guys start following you.
Guys start trying to figure outwhere you're hunting.
So lips is is not just somebodyelse talking about where you're
(21:05):
hunting, as much as it's,sometimes it's your loose lips
letting it slip where you'rehunting yeah and it's sad that
you have to be secretive.
But if you're not, guys aregonna I mean people that you
thought were friends are gonnaslip in there and they're gonna
cork you yeah, and then it's.
I don't.
I.
I'm sorry that I say it likethat.
I'm sorry that it is that way.
(21:27):
I wish it wasn't, and I thinkit's the rarity of the fact that
it's a trophy black tail buck.
Yeah.
You know that there are so fewguys that get the record book
bucks.
And they don't know how toconsistently get them Right, and
so just try to catch thetailings, so they think if
they're just in the same area asyou they can get it done and
(21:49):
sometimes they do, sometimesthey do you know, but, like you
said, consistently well, it'snot where we're hunting,
necessarily, it's how we'rehunting.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know, it's a whole system.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Exactly.
It's more than just one pieceof the puzzle, and so you know,
all it takes to ruin a honeyhole is one guy.
Yeah.
You know what I mean One guythat wants to, you know, sound
important or come across as abetter hunter or a much more
successful hunter to impresssomebody else.
Hey, I know a spot, hey, youknow, and he may not hunt it.
(22:23):
It may be your spot, but he'sgoing to take other people in,
but he'll take.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
They'll take other people in, yeah, and then you're
done and it's it's over.
And yeah, they hunted out.
And then you have to waitmultiple years and hope that the
genetics of the big buck thatyou got and pulled out of there
stayed in there Right out ofthere stayed in there Right,
because it can ruin the geneticsin the area too.
If you're pulling out thatdominant buck before he's really
(22:54):
either had the chance or youget his lineage and pull it out
of there.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, Right and honestly.
That's why the Blacktail Coachexists we want to help guys get
bucks.
Yeah.
I want to teach guys how to getbig, mature blacktail bucks.
You take the course.
I got no secrets.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I'm laying it all out there.
I'm showing you everything.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I'm answering every question you want, so there's no
reason to try and sneak in.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And it's a big part of our coaching.
It's a big part of our coachingbecause we ask that people
share their onX, the screenshotsand their pictures and
everything else Right, but wehave the hard and fast rule If
you steal someone's spot, you'regone.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Because we don't—.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
There is no refund, you're just done.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, we don't want that as part of this community.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Of you know that we're trying to put together and
, plus, we're helping you findmore spots.
You know it gets to the point.
I don't feel like I need to gotake anybody's spot Right.
In fact there's and there it'sa different type and I think
most guys are appreciate thefact that they've done the work
(24:05):
and they appreciate that it wasthem who found the spot Right.
It's like I could go swipe yourspot, but then it's not all me,
it's that level of dishonestykind of taints your success.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Well, any hunter that has any kind of character would
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Unfortunately, there are those out there that don't
have that kind of character.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, and there are a few and if, if you're new to
the hunting community, you knowit's one of those, you got to
use more caution and as you getto know more guys in the hunting
community, you find out whothey are right, there are givers
and takers, and some of thetakers will always be takers
yeah they'll never be givers,unfortunately, but, like, like I
(24:48):
said, it just takes one guy toto ruin a honey hole, you know,
and the thing is, is is what,since we're talking about it is,
is that skill set of locatinganother one is the one that
we're trying to teach you know,
Speaker 2 (25:01):
that's one that the guys that get into the coaching
or or the seminars we're tryingto teach you that skill set.
I'm showing you the habitat I'mgoing to, you know, show you
exactly what you need to lookfor, and so you're going to walk
away with that skill set.
So there's no reason that youneed to depend on anyone else.
You know what I mean.
You have that skill set andyou're able to do it for
(25:23):
yourself every year.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Every year, and so another one, and I put it under
the loose lips category, but itfits into that stolen gear, and
you've had cameras stolen.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I've had cameras stolen.
I've had tree stands stolen.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I had a dripper stolen last year and it's funny,
I've had a lot of my dripper.
Wasn't too far away from mycamera, but people didn't,
didn't see the camera.
But yeah, for some reason theyhad to grab that five dollar
scrape bomb.
It's like, okay, well, ifthat's all I lost, I'll count it
as a as a win there.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I've had four cameras , two tree stands and hopefully
that's it, you know.
Yeah, knock on wood.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And hopefully now and granted, some areas like my
areas are all non-cell, there'sno cell signal Right.
So my cameras, even thoughthey're all cell cameras, I
can't activate that.
So there are times where youcan get the picture and have it
sent to your phone and you'recatching pictures.
And we had one of our pro stafflast year.
(26:31):
He actually got pictures of theguy coming in, but he would
come in and turn off his cameraevery time just to kind of mess
with him, but he put a littlenote in there.
You know, if you're reading this, I've got pictures of you
already and they've already beensent to my phone and I will
come and get you.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I know exactly who you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Which was hilarious.
Yeah, there's always the riskof your gear getting stolen, and
if you're hunting on a limitedbudget, you know you're working
towards building up a gear.
If you have two or threecameras and two of them get
stolen, yeah, that sucks.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it's hard to have any kind of remorse
for somebody that steals.
Yeah.
At least that's how I feel aboutit.
You know it's like everybodyout there we work jobs, we pay
(27:26):
our bills, we work hard, we saveto buy these there's.
You know this equipment that wecan use to help us.
You know figure out location,figure out timing, figure out.
You know this equipment that wecan use to to help us.
You know figure out location,figure out timing, figure out.
You know cataloging what's outthere and stuff like tree stands
and climbing sticks and allthat.
And then you got some guycoming along that thinks that he
deserves to benefit fromsomebody being trusting that.
That just it really drives mecrazy.
Yeah.
It ought not to be that way, butunfortunately we don't live in
(27:46):
a perfect world.
It is what it is and and ifguys want that stuff, they'll do
what they have to.
Yeah, you know.
I've had them cut cable, I'vehad them just about everything
to get my equipment out of there, and maybe I'm foolish, but I
still leave it out there.
Yeah, you know.
I don't see because of wherewe're hunting.
I don't see near the amount ofpeople.
Yeah.
(28:06):
That I used to when I firststarted archery hunting back
when I was 18.
But because of the location ofwhere I'm at, and when I say
that I mean Habitat, I don't seea lot of guys.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I had last year two on my set.
Each set I had a mushroompicker or something like I think
.
I just assumed it was amushroom picker, but you could
tell by the equipment that theywere carrying that it was
something like that.
And then I got another guy whoI caught him a couple times on
camera during elk, right beforelate season.
(28:40):
Right and just walking by notreally noticing.
You know what was going on.
And actually I got him on thisspring on camera as well, going
into one of the areas.
But yeah, don't notice thecameras, which is thankful.
Yeah.
Thankful for that, because theymight help themselves.
But yep yeah, I get a few guys,but we hunt those areas that
(29:03):
it's not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, we just don't see guys coming in yeah, where
it's not the traditional spotthat that you would, that most
guys would, would go to yeah youknow, for whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
If you're doing spot and stock or if you're glassing
clear cuts, things like that.
So I didn't actually have ithere on the script, but I think
we should probably talk aboutmindset, because we talked about
we have backup, but notnecessarily just mindset.
But how do you work throughthese things happening?
(29:35):
You a plan helps that backup.
It's going to be discouragingwhen one of these happens
somebody steals your spot, youlose your access.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Right, right.
So when I do my seminars andthe online classes and
everything I do a whole sectionon mindset, and that mindset is
typically geared toward what areyou going to do when you have a
record book mature black tailbuck standing at less than 20
yards in front of you?
Because that's with my systemit's usually inside of 15 yards.
(30:09):
Yeah.
And that's just how I've beenable to tailor this and make it
so that when you do have thatopportunity, it's in your lap.
But last year was a greatexample of just the grind.
Guys were frustrated andeverything, and so mindset goes
beyond just having the buck infront of you.
It is what is going to keep youin the game after that buck.
(30:34):
To get it in front of you, youknow, to get to that opportunity
, to get to that moment where,here he is, he's actually
stepped into my shooting lane,he's at my kill spot.
Now I can take him.
So, like I said, there's a lotof hurdles for every season.
Yeah.
And so there are those seasons.
I experienced one last year.
I went out first day of lateseason.
I had COVID finally got throughthat was able to get up and go
(30:58):
do an evening hunt.
My son came and filmed for meand I killed Lucky.
Yeah.
So that season, that archeryseason, that archery late season
, which is what I saved my tagfor lasted probably five hours,
okay, from the time that I gotthere to the time I shot him.
Not every season's like that.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes I'll put in18 sits in a tree stand before I
(31:20):
finally get that opportunity.
I'll pass up a number of bucksto get to that one buck, clooney
.
I hunted from the opener oflate season to and I had picture
after picture after picture ofthat buck, but that cat and
mouse game, he kept outsmartingme.
He did not show up until thelast 15 minutes of the last day
(31:43):
that that unit was open and Ifinally arrowed him.
Now, I sat through a lot ofrainstorms, I sat through some
snow flurries, I sat through alot of cold weather and whatnot.
My daughter got in a caraccident, my wife and my son
were in India at a wedding, andyou know so it was like there
was a lot of things that weregoing on that I don't want to
(32:05):
say they were distractions.
You know, obviously the healthand safety of my family is
number one, but I still had tostay in the game.
I still had to find motivationto get up and keep going and
keep myself there.
Well, it could happen today.
It could happen today.
It could happen, you know,because it was a lot of sits.
Yeah.
You know, I put in a lot oftime and at the end there I was
(32:26):
getting a little discouraged,you know.
I mean I've gotten pictures ofthis buck daylighting and he
just got my number.
For some reason he just is notthere when I'm there.
And that's the way it is withevery season.
You know, whatever that hurdleis, you've got to convince
yourself to you.
You know you you can't let itwin.
You can't let that buck win yeahyou know I got a guy that I elk
(32:49):
hunt with.
That, you know, tells me allthe time in the mornings I hate
morning hunts just for the factthat I got to get up at four
o'clock every single day and hejust looks over me and he goes
Elk, don't care how tired youare.
And that's part of making itpersonal.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So also thinking about, especially with things
that could make your season gosouth, is everything we
mentioned.
There's workarounds, so a job Iused to have years ago, so a
job I used to have years ago andI bring this up in interviews
in jobs that I'm interviewingfor about struggles.
And I said well, at this otherjob, so I had to staff multiple
(33:26):
people at multiple locations inthe evenings and I said two
nights a year, half my staffwould call in sick.
And then what two nights werethose?
And I said I had no idea.
But two nights a year I wouldhave half my staff call in sick.
And then what two nights werethose?
And I said I had no idea.
But two nights a year I wouldhave half my staff calling sick.
So I had to be ready at amoment's notice to have things
go south, and so I planned aheadfor things going south and I
(33:49):
always had a contingency plan.
And that's the same way withthis.
We have backup sets, we havebackup cameras.
You start building up the gearand you're prepared for the
worst, but you're making thingswork out for the best.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Right, right, plan for the worst and everything
else is easy.
Yeah.
I went to a guy.
I went to school with a guy inhigh school that was a catcher
for a baseball team and he wouldsay that all the time that the
coach would be like how come,what are you doing?
I'm planning for the worst, andeverything else is easy.
Yeah, you know, I'm planningfor that bad pitch in the dirt
over my head, behind the batter,you know, and everything else.
(34:25):
It's going to be a cakewalk.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, and you don't have to dwell on it being
negative.
It's just you've made a planand that's why we really push
creating a hunting plan with ourguys.
This is your plan.
You know things go south.
Just look at your plan, workyour plan, work your plan.
So hopefully that helps keepyou focused and with a positive
(34:46):
attitude this coming season, incase things go south.
We're hoping that they don'tfor you, because we want to see
your buck picks.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So if you are listening to this podcast and
you get a buck, pickblacktailcoach at gmailcom.
We'd love to see your picture,hear your story, whether you've
taken our class or not, but we'dlove to share that picture for
you on all of our social media.
We want to celebrate with you.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So anyway, we'll see you next week, and thanks for
joining us.
Thank you.
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