April 7, 2025 • 39 mins
Thinking about making the leap from rifle hunting to bow hunting? This episode is your essential roadmap to getting started on the right foot. Aaron, traditionally a "gun guy," picks Dave's brain about everything a beginning archer needs to know before heading into the field.
The conversation begins by demystifying bow selection, with Dave explaining that "it's hard to get a bad bow anymore" thanks to significant technological improvements over the past two decades. We explore how brands like Hoyt, Matthews, Bowtech, and PSE compare, while breaking down the real differences between flagship models and more budget-friendly "second-tier" lines that offer excellent value for beginners. Rather than pushing expensive options, Dave emphasizes matching your equipment to your physical capabilities and hunting goals.
We dive deep into the technical aspects of archery equipment, from understanding arrow spine and weight to the crucial differences between mechanical and fixed broadheads. You'll learn why most hunters should aim for arrows in the 450-500 grain range for optimal penetration, and why statistics consistently show mechanical broadheads providing higher recovery rates on game animals. The discussion covers essential accessories, practice targets, and how to set up your arrows for maximum consistency and accuracy.
The episode wraps with perhaps the most important element of bow hunting success: dedicated practice. As Dave explains, "Muscle memory is everything when it comes to that final moment," highlighting why regular shooting sessions are non-negotiable for ethical and effective bow hunting. Whether you're completely new to archery or a casual bow hunter looking to improve your success rate, this episode provides the foundation you need to approach the upcoming season with confidence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
This is Aaron and I'm Dave, sothis week we are going to do an
intro to bow hunting.
For several years Dave hastried to get me into bow hunting
and I know with the system itworks, as you say, best during
late season, late archery,although there is a late muzzle
loader for some people, as well.
(00:20):
But I'm a gun guy.
I've always stuck with withguns.
But for guys who are interestedin learning how to bow hunt,
that's what this episode is for,and maybe give some new
information for guys who havebeen casual bow hunters.
Okay, possibly, if there issuch a thing, well as far as to
(00:41):
be successful.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You can't be be a casual.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Casual.
Yeah, yeah, it's real hard.
Okay so, starting off, whatkind of bow?
And I think this falls underthe category of when I'm
researching something to buy.
I read five articles andwhatever the consensus is,
that's what I go with.
So if someone is looking intostarting out with bow hunting,
(01:07):
what bow do they need forhunting?
What are great brands versusgood brands versus just don't
buy these particular bows, inyour opinion?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, in my opinion, it's hard to get a bad bow
anymore.
So 15, 20 years ago that wasn'tthe case.
There was a handful ofmanufacturers that were top of
the line and then there was alot of subpar bows that and I
hate to use the word subpar, butthey were lesser simply because
they didn't have all the bellsand whistles or the bow wasn't
(01:39):
balanced as well as it couldhave been and there was just a
bunch of little stuff that wouldtake away from it.
But anymore, with theinnovations that have come with
risers and cam systems andeverything like that, it's hard
to get a bad bow.
When I see somebody that'sgetting into it and wants to
take up archery, the thing thatI advise them to do before they
(02:00):
even go and look for a bow is tofigure out what they're wanting
to do with archery, becausethere's so many different things
.
Are you wanting just to havesomething just to plink around
with?
You know, is this somethingthat you are serious and you
want to get into hunting as faras the archery side of it and
you feel like you're going toput years into it and stuff?
Or do you want to just dotarget?
(02:22):
You know some guys just like dotarget shooting?
You know, yeah, stuff.
Or do you want to just dotarget?
You know some guys just like dotarget shooting, you know yeah,
and you don't want to spend themoney on all the the bells and
whistles for hunting, that youwould for target and vice versa,
and and then after that itwould just depend on your
physical ability.
Um, and what I mean by that isis that as we get older, you
know our muscles they tend toshrink and our joints tend to
hurt a little bit more and youknow we get arthritis and
(02:45):
bursitis and all this stuffgoing on in our body.
You want a cam system or a bowthat has a cam system that is a
very smooth, easy draw, versus ayounger guy who probably
somewhere late teens, twenties,you know, all the way up into
maybe early forties is going todraw like 70 pounds, the way up
(03:07):
into maybe early 40s is going todraw like 70 pounds, you know.
Well, then you probably wantsomething that is just a not
necessarily a smooth draw, asmuch as you want it dead in the
hand.
You want it to be.
What does that mean?
Dead, dead in the hand.
What I mean by that is is theshock, the hand shock, okay,
after you release the string andit goes off, you want something
that's just you know going tobe as dead as possible.
There's not going to be a lotof jump or vibration in that
(03:28):
riser, and so I think it's justyou know.
What do you want it to do?
What are you expecting the bowto perform as?
Do you want something that'sfast or light, or, you know,
there's just a whole mess ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So, when we're thinking about bow brands, what
are, what are, some of the Iwould say better brands that
people should be considering?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
so some of the better or more popular brands that are
on the market yeah, we'll gomore, more popular.
I guess would be uh, I'd say thetop two are probably hoyt and
matthews, and then you'vegottech, which is right up there
with them.
It's very close.
Pse has been in the game a longtime.
You've got Prime, you've gotExpedition, you've got I mean.
(04:14):
There's just a whole plethoraof bow manufacturers out there
now, and some have been flashesin the pan that are no longer on
the market.
You still see the bows outthere, but the manufacturer's
not out there anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Now could that become a problem if someone were to
pick one of those up becausethey can't get replacement?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
parts they can't get.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
yeah, okay so replacement parts, would you say
are they fairly proprietary,meaning you can't swap between a
Hoyt and a Matthews?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Bowtech, between a Hoyt and a Matthews bow tech.
So as far as the bare bowitself, every bow manufacturer
has its own cam system and withthat cam system, whether they're
running modules or whetherthey're running any kind of
tunability or anything like that, it is particular specific to
(05:02):
that brand of bow.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, it is particular, specific to that
brand of bow.
Okay, now are there, would yousay, of of those particular
brands.
Are there any of them that arebetter for beginners?
And I'm thinking of this, offrom from this aspect that
sometimes, if you're a beginner,you want something that's more
forgiving to mistakes.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, so there are certain brands that have a
flagship line and then aentry-level line.
Okay, for instance, matthewMatthew is the top line that
they have, so they would haveall their Matthew bows and then
their entry-level or theirsecond-tier bow brand is Mission
.
Okay.
For Bowtech it's Diamond andthere are a couple more that
(05:50):
have those particular ones andtypically that's what you find.
If you're a beginner, you'llfind your package deals in those
particular lines, in the secondtier line.
Yeah, that makes sense.
(06:13):
And it'll come with a rest, aquiver, sometimes a sight and
maybe a half dozen arrows, whichis a really, and it'll be
discounted, you know.
So it's a really good way toenter into this, especially as a
kid, because I know that whenmy kids were young, the problem
was buy a bow for them and insix months, eight months, they'd
grow out of it.
They've grown out of it yeah.
Yeah, and a lot of the benefitnow is the cam systems are made
adjustable so that you can gofrom a draw length of 24 all the
way to 31.
The problem is is that, youknow, as a kid grows, I mean he
(06:34):
starts pulling more and morepoundage and stuff.
You buy the bow, typically it'sof a lighter poundage, so it's
not that he outgrows itphysically for the draw length,
he just outgrows it physicallyas far as poundage.
It peaks at 35 or 55, and hewants to pull 60 or you know
what I mean?
Yeah, and so in that sense theyoutgrow it that way.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Okay, what would be the entry price for one of those
bows, would you say?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Oh, it'll run you anywhere between.
It depends on the time of year.
Yeah, you know, becauseobviously there are sales,
better sales at certain times ofyear than others, but typically
between five to 800 bucks.
Okay.
You know you can find a deal andstuff.
And if you're really smart andyou want to get into this and
you say, hey, I want to go downto the archery shop, look at a
(07:22):
couple bows, have them, help youset one up so that you can
shoot it, just to feel what itfeels like.
And then, once you've figuredout a brand that you want or a
bow that you want, come home,get on eBay.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And look it up that way.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Get on Facebook there are buy, sell, trade, archery
stuff all the time and type inyour bow and you're going to get
not just the bow, bow, butyou're going to get somebody
that's selling a whole packet.
At me, I see it all the time.
You know a dozen and a halfarrows, a bow.
Barely been shot.
You know, had shoulder surgery,can't do it anymore.
Got in a car wreck.
(07:56):
Don't have time.
Not what I liked, not what Iexpected.
You know all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Well, they're selling it dirt cheap so you can go to
a range and they have variousbows that you can either they'll
set up they'll set up brand newbows.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Some ranges have bows that you can borrow, but those
are typically like recurves andthat kind of stuff.
Okay.
But you can go pull one off theshelf, say, hey, you know I'd
like to shoot this.
You know I'm thinking aboutgetting into this.
You know I want to buy it.
You know I'm thinking aboutgetting into this.
You know I want to buy it.
You know I'm thinking aboutbuying it or whatnot.
And they'll set it up for youand you can shoot it.
Oh, okay, I can think of afriend of mine.
We were on vacation over theholidays over in Bend and we
(08:33):
went into the store archery shopover there.
They set one up for him toshoot and a week later he's
walking out of the store with acompound and out of the store
with a compound.
And you know it, I mean it.
It's a great sport.
As far as that goes.
It's very much a uh,competitive in nature, but it
it's.
It's competitive with yourself.
You're not competing againstother people, you're competing
(08:55):
with yourself.
This is what I shot last time.
Can I beat that?
Can I try and beat that?
Yeah, you know I work on myform and all this stuff and it's
very relaxing.
Some people are competitive,though yeah, some people are
just you know, they want to.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They want, that's fine and that's there too.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That's there too if they want to, but it's very much
a very fun and relaxing sportin that sense and I know there's
lots of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You go to the 3d shoots that you can head down to
the the archery range, you knowthe archery shop that has our
indoor range, so there's lots ofopportunities to go shoot.
I would say even more than ifyou're shooting rifles or yeah,
we've got an outdoor range.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Our club does and we go shoot that throughout the
summer, Anytime we can go.
In the winter we can go in thedead of night if we want.
We've held spook shoots orflashlight shoots and stuff and
those are always fun, and theneven some archery ranges that
are indoor.
They're starting to give you acard key and it allows you into
the range portion of the store,not the retail portion, but the
(09:59):
range portion.
Yes, and so you can go there24-7.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, we have a friend Aaron.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Who does that?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Another, aaron, who bought a bow, but he gets off at
like 4 in the morning and hewould go out immediately after
work.
Right.
And, yeah, let himself in shootfor a half an hour, an hour and
then head home after that.
So there are things when you'reI know, when you're setting up
a bow, and this is one of thethings I was wondering Is there
a break-in period?
So when you buy a rifle youhave to break in the barrel?
(10:27):
Right right or pretty much anygun, but you're breaking in the
barrel.
Is there a break-in?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
period.
For a bow.
For the string, yes.
For the bow, no.
Okay, you always want to.
And not that you can't shootthe string right away, you can.
But if it's going to stretch,it's going to stretch typically
within the first 100 shots.
So you want to get 100 arrowsthrough it before you really
start dialing it in and gettingit set up.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay.
And so when you talk aboutsetting up a bow, you're dialing
in like how much poundage itwould have.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah Well, so getting a bow is just like getting a
rifle.
You want something that'scomfortable, something that
feels good in your hand,something that you like to draw,
something that you like how it.
You know when it shoots, like Iwas saying, is it dead in the
hand, is it jump?
Is there a lot of vibration, alot of hand shock?
It's always good to try outthree or four bows and then pick
the one you like.
You know, and when you set itup, you're going to find a
(11:23):
poundage, especially when you'refirst starting.
You know you're going to find apoundage that's comfortable,
that you can draw multiple timesand still stay steady.
You know it's a lot of musclesthat you've never used before.
It's a lot of back muscles,contrary to what you know, a lot
of people think.
Well, you're always pulling itwith your arms.
It's more shoulder and backthan it is anything else.
(11:44):
And so those muscles build upquickly and, and uh yeah, you
find yourself climbing inpoundage and then you set up for
draw length and all that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Now can draw length change the more comfortable you
get, or is that just a alwayskind of a set?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
well, once you stop growing, it's always a set thing
, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, and one other thing I was wondering they
probably make left-handedright-handed bows.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Are there any of them that arebetter for left-handed versus
right-handed, or is it just testthem all out and just see what
works?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
for you.
Well, if you talk to my littlebrother or bud, our pro staffer,
they're both left-handed.
Okay, and they tell you,everything is better left-handed
.
Okay.
But no, they're good bows.
Just some particular brands areeasier to find in left-hand
than other brands.
Yeah.
(12:38):
And so I've noticed that Budand my brother have had problems
in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, and I know it's like guns.
I mean you can spend a lot ofmoney on bows and getting them
all set up, but are there anyaspects to models, brands,
accessories that you wouldsuggest avoid when someone's
getting started?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, the expensive stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And it sounds funny to say that, but honestly, avoid
the expensive stuff.
You know, and like arrows andstuff, you know that first dozen
arrows you're going to gothrough the quickest.
You're going to lose them,You're going to break them, you
know.
You're just going to mistreatthem because this is something
that is brand new to you.
You don't know all of thelittle idiosyncrasies of what it
(13:25):
is to be an archer, and itsounds funny to say that, but
you don't know how to take careof that weapon and it's a weapon
.
So you're going to break thingson it, You're going to treat it
roughly in times when youshouldn't, just not knowing the
durability of your equipment.
And then there's always.
There's so much on the marketwith so many little tweaks here
and there.
(13:45):
You need to figure out whatyou're going to like before you
start spending money.
Like sights, for instance,Sights man, they can start 120,
180 bucks and climb all the wayup to 500, $600.
So it's like no, do the cheapstuff first.
Find out what you like, Findout what you want.
It's like buying a shotgun.
(14:08):
So if I'm going to go, say,grouse hunting and I go buy a 20
gauge, am I going to be able touse that same 20 gauge if I
decide to go goose hunting?
Yeah.
You see what I'm saying.
But, the thing is I don't knowthat I want to go goose hunting
until I get into this wholeshotgun world and start seeing
what this does and you know whatgauge is better for which and
(14:29):
that kind of thing and what gunfits me really good, and so
there's a whole world out therethat you have to become
acquainted with before youreally start dropping some
serious cash on bows andeverything like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So this is true for the gun world and I don't know
if it's necessarily true in ourtrue world.
I imagine it is to some extent.
So there are some shops youwalk in and, to use your example
, I want a 20 gauge, cause Iwant to go grouse hunting, okay.
Okay.
So I walked into a particularstore over in Portland and who?
(15:04):
They shall remain nameless Iwanted a basic bare bones.
I don't have to care aboutgetting dings on this 20 gauge,
all of that, right, I'm justusing it to go grouse hunting.
And he pulls a $2,000 Benellioff the rack to show me and I'm
(15:25):
like, dude, that's not what Iwant, right?
You know if.
I'm going to drop two grand onthis.
I'm going to be concerned aboutgetting a scratch on it.
I want something that and Ihave Right right.
It slipped and fell over andit's got little dings on it.
I don't care, right, you know,it still functions just fine.
Now are there shops that?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's the thing, too , is knowing what you want that
bow or that weapon to do, okay,and how you're going to treat it
.
That's a great example rightthere.
If I'm thinking you know what?
I'm not sure if I'm going toget into this.
I don't want something that.
I mean, I know guys that havetaken their bows and they've
been out shooting carp and themotor dies and all of a sudden
they're using that bow as apaddle, pulling themselves
through the you know lily padsand crap like that, and it's
like, well, you got to knowyourself enough to know that
(16:14):
this is how I'm going to treatit, yeah, so you don't want to
drop a lot, and the guy's goingto come up and say, hey, you
need this $1,500 bow.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So are there archery shops that, would you say?
Are they mostly trustworthy asfar as steering you towards what
you're describing?
Or are there archery shops that, no matter what you say,
they're going to hand you the,the high-end product right off
the bat and try to sell you that?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I think that that most of the time archery shops
are pretty honest.
Okay, in my experience, in myexperience and and I've worked
in a few uh, I, you, I've gottento know owners of a lot, I know
a lot of archery shops, been toa lot of them and stuff, and I
feel like archers are a littledifferent.
(16:58):
And I don't mean to soundjudgmental or critical of anyone
, but it just seems to me thepattern is that archers seem to
be more serious about thehunting aspect of everything.
So they really get into theirweaponry, they really get into
the performance of it, not thatgun guys don't.
But there's another level, thatarchery guys, because a lot of
(17:22):
them are getting into thearchery target, tournament stuff
, and so they're really breakingit down and it's like every
point that you drop in atournament is critical, whether
it's indoor or outdoor, and guysare really getting into that
and knowing their weapon.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I would say that that's definitely true.
They would probably be theequivalent of guys who
long-range hunt Exactly, who areshooting 500-yard shots or
above because they want to knowevery detail about their bullet,
about their rifle, about theirbarrel, about their optics.
They're getting all realtop-of-the-line stuff.
I went out with a .44 Magnumlever action and then finished
(18:03):
with my .44 pistol to go outhunting because it's in close
and I had to tweak the ammo, butI didn't have to necessarily
dial things in.
I'm shooting something at 12yards away.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Right and, like the average rifle guy, if you said,
hey, can you dope the wind forme, they're not going to have a
clue as to what you're talkingabout.
And I'm not saying becausethere is those guys that do that
, but that would be in the rifleworld.
I think that's probably 10% ofall rifle owners, Whereas I feel
like in the archery worldbecause you are closer, you have
(18:40):
to get closer.
There's so many aspects as towhat can go wrong that most guys
are spending more time withtheir weapon and getting to know
that weapon to a greater extentthan the average rifle hunter.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, and we'll get more into arrows and broadheads
and everything like that in aminute, but would you say that
you might want to be looking ata different type of bow or
different equipment, dependingon the type of hunting you want
to do?
So if you're going to primarilyelk hunt versus black-tailed
deer versus mule deer versusbear, versus, you know there's
(19:14):
and I and I'm sure there's a lotwith the arrows that you're
using, but does it matter withthe bows, would there be
something that, if you knowyou're going to be doing 40, 60
yards and correct me if I'mwrong about 80 is about your,
the limit that you want to takea shot with a?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
bow, or that's a personal thing, okay, you know.
I mean, I know Cameron Haynes.
He practices at 100 to 120yards.
You know which is incredibleyou know, but that's Cameron
Haynes, and I know some guys youknow Blake Jerome and some
other guys that practice likethat also, but that's not the
average guy.
(19:51):
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
And kudos to those guys becausethey're very good at it and
stuff but I know my limits.
Yeah.
And I can push my limits, but Irespect that animal enough.
Not that those guys don't,because they do.
They're very good long rangeshooters.
I am not and just being honestwith myself, it's like okay, so
60 yards is probably my max.
Could I hit the animal at 70,80?
(20:12):
Yeah, I could, but I'm notguaranteeing that it's going to
be a kill shot and I want tohave that.
I want to be ethical about it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, going back to the ethical yeah, knowing my
limits and stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But I think, more than the bow, I think it's more
the broadhead and the arrow whenyou start changing the species
of game that you're after.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay.
So before we jump into thatbecause I do have that on my
notes to talk about that whataccessories?
So you've bought your bow andyou bought your bow with the
intent to go hunting with it.
What are the accessories thatyou are going to need when
you're going out hunting?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Okay.
So obviously, a sight, okay, aquiver, a rest and a peep and a
release, that's it, that's allyou need.
Okay, as far as bare bones,essentials, that's what you need
.
And then obviously, arrows andbroadheads, but I mean
accessories on the bow, that'swhat you need.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, now let's talk about arrows and broadhead.
You're obviously not practicingwith broadheads.
In fact, you can't practicewith broadheads as far as at a
public range, can you?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Not at a well like our range.
Our club range has a broadheadpit, Okay, and so you can shoot
broadheads at the broadhead pit,but that's it.
It's solely excluded to thatarea right there not to be used
on the range, out on the courseor anything like that.
It's strictly in that broadheadpit, okay.
(21:39):
And then you can practice withbroadheads, you know, at your
leisure, on your own property orat your house, whatever, but
those, when I practice withthose broad, I don't use those
broadheads, because every timeyou shoot it into your target
you're dulling that blade.
Yeah, you know, and so I won'tuse those broadheads.
(21:59):
I'm just going to say, okay,here's the arrow flight, do I
need to tune something?
And whatnot?
And I change that broadhead asI tune all the arrows to my
broadheads.
I just rotate that broadheadfrom arrow to arrow to arrow to
arrow so that I get it tuned,okay, and then and I was
wondering about that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So if you were to try new broadheads, you would buy
some, basically some throwawaysto go practice with.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, I know with buyingself-defense rounds for my
pistol.
Anytime I buy new rounds,except for if they're just
straight plinking rounds, I'mputting a magazine or two or a
(22:38):
cylinder or two through myhandguns of self-defense rounds.
I buy a couple boxes with theplan to shoot one of those boxes
so that I have a feel for whatthat's going to do.
So you do the same thing witharrows and broadheads when
you're trying out new stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, so there's always guaranteed that there's
going to be a.
I buy a pack with the intentthat these will never be used
hunting.
These are strictly for sightingin tuning my arrows and
sighting in my bow to thebroadheads.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, and do you find that different arrows,
everything those can there's abig variance on how those react
when you shoot them?
I would imagine.
Yeah, different weights and.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah.
So I mean it's funny.
You say this because when Ifirst started, you know, when I
was younger and getting into biggame hunting, archery, you know
it was just buy the arrows, putthe broadheads on there, didn't
check to see how they spun,didn't check the spine or
anything like that, and hey,let's go out and shoot some deer
or elk or whatnot.
And the longer I've been in it,the more I realize there's a
(23:40):
lot more to it than just that.
You know you want to spine,check your arrow shafts, you
want to spin them, you know tomake sure that they're all
spinning really good and tight.
And you want to find the spineon that shaft so that you can
put your cock vein the same onevery shaft on, so that it's on
the spine of every, so thatevery arrow comes out of that
riser the same.
(24:01):
You want to use the same nocks.
All nocks don't come off theriser the same, they come out
differently.
Guys will shoot regular, theirregular no knocks, practice, and
then when it comes to huntingthey'll throw on some kind of
lighted knock.
Well, I was shooting gold tipsand man all summer long shooting
them great, and they're justflying like darts and I'm just
hitting everything, and then Iput on the nocturnal, which is a
(24:23):
lighted knock, and it was eightinches of difference at 20
yards.
Because, of how that arrow cameout of the riser with that knock
on.
Yeah.
How it gripped the string andall that.
So it all plays a role in howthat arrow flies and that's why
there's a whole old saying inthe sports world that you
practice how you play.
Well, it's the same witharchery.
(24:44):
When it gets time, that lastmonth, so if season starts in
September, all of August it'sworking on my broadheads and
tuning my arrows and shootingthem with those practice
broadhead tips and the real deal.
Everything I'm going to usewhen it comes to game time is on
that arrow and it's go timeOkay.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
What do you mean by so?
We'll get into some definitionshere.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So spine that is the stiffness of the arrow.
Okay, and so the way arrows aremade is that everything is
graphite or carbon.
Now, okay, when I first startedit was aluminum and that was
pretty much all you had.
There was a small run offiberglass or whatnot, but now
it's all carbon or graphitearrows.
(25:29):
And how they make it is theyhave a stencil or they have a
round disc with a bunch of holesin it and they push these
stencils through it and theycan't maintain, they can't
monitor how many of thosestencils go into each hole.
So one may have, you know,let's say, 15 of the stencils or
the fibers in there, and theother one over here may only
have 12.
, and then the one next to it onthe other side might have 13.
(25:52):
You know what I mean?
Well, the one that has 15,that's going to be the stiffest
part, okay, running down thatshaft and so the way that it's
all bound together and how theypush that through there and
stuff not being able to monitorhow many of those fibers go into
each, or the stencils go intoeach hole.
It changes the spine on thearrow, but every arrow will have
(26:13):
at least one stiff side, okay,and so you want to find that
stiff side and typically I liketo make it so that my cock vein
or my odd color vein is right onthat stiff spine.
Yeah.
And so that if I put the arrowin the riser and attach it to
the string, with that stiff partpointing to the same spot on
(26:34):
every arrow.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's going to have the same performance.
It's going to hit the same spotdown range.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Theoretically yes.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, and how do they the spine, that's the 300, 400,
500?
Correct?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Correct the numbers on there 350, 400,.
Yeah, okay 500?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Correct, correct the numbers on there 350, 400.
Yeah, okay Now.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Arrow length is that a thing?
And weight of the arrow itself?
Yep, and the trueness of thestraightness of the arrow.
So every arrow just like bowmanufacturers has a line like
gold tip, has a whole line ofarrows.
Okay, and they've had theirbest, their platinum pierce,
they've got their just regulargold tips and they have all
these different arrows in allthese different arrow lines and
(27:17):
gold tip, and some, the cheaperend of those are going to be the
ones that aren't as true, don'thave real good trueness as far
as compared to the ones that areat the top.
You know what I mean.
And they're all going to be adifferent amount of weight per
inch of the arrow they're goingto have a certain amount.
So it'll be like 8.9 grains perinch of arrow, or some will be
7.
Such and such per inch of arrow, and that's how you start
(27:40):
adding up your arrow weight.
So then you find out how manygrains your arrow is according
to your draw length, and theshop should be able to set you
up accordingly.
Okay.
So that's something that thefirst couple you want somebody
that knows what they're doing toget you set up with your draw
length and then to have thearrows cut to your length now do
they come pre-cut, or is thatbecause they assemble the arrows
(28:03):
?
for you.
You can buy them assembled asfar as the veins and the knot,
but you always get them cut toyou.
Okay, yeah, and that's why,when you go in to get arrows,
always take your bow.
It's an arrow that's got themeasurements on it and stuff,
and they can say, okay, this iswhere we need to cut.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So when you draw, back, they would place that
arrow on there and then get theexact measurement, right, okay,
okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Now for broadheads.
Okay, that makes sense Now forbroadheads.
So those would go by weight.
So there's a lot of discussionbetween mechanical and fixed.
Okay, so we'll get into that,because we've had a lot of those
questions recently and stuff.
But there's also weight is aconsideration for your
(28:48):
broadheads.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So weight is always a consideration.
Weight is a consideration foryour broadheads, so weight is
always a consideration.
So everything that has to dowith the arrow and the broadhead
and the weight and all that isalways in grains, okay, so your
veins are typically five to 15grains for each vein.
You know, guys will weigh themout.
So your target shooters, yourserious hunters, they're going
to weigh every component of thatarrow individually.
So they add it up and once theyget it, it's like with
(29:12):
reloading a bullet.
Reloading yeah.
Your powder.
You're going to get it rightdown to the exact grain of what
you're putting in it, becauseyou want that same hot load.
You don't want it any hotter,you don't want it any less.
Yeah.
You know, so that that bullethits the same spot every time.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I have a friend who he will go with tweezers to load
the powder into the casings sothat they're exactly the same.
Yeah, and I think he goes downto like not just the 10th of a
grain but 100th, yeah, yeah, hewants them to be exactly the
same for the exact sameperformance.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, and if you look at these guys that are
professional target shooters, Imean they do that with every
arrow.
They'll get a dozen arrows andthey'll find the you know.
They may go through three dozento find, you know, a set of what
they consider really goodstraightness or trueness, and
then they'll shoot those at atournament and once that
tournament's over, they don'tshoot them anymore, they just
(30:15):
throw them away and they'll getanother two or three dozen and
do the same thing over again.
Yeah, yeah.
So it as far as the weight ofthe arrow, you you want
something and this is this haskind of burned me in the past
because I I got on a speed kick,and when you get on a speed
kick, it's so that you don'thave to worry about guessing
wrong on the yardage.
You can use the same pin from20, even out to 40 yards, with
as fast as the bows are today,and so you could guess it at 22
(30:37):
and it's at 30, but that one pinis going to cover that.
So even if you guess theyardage wrong, you're still
hitting kill zone, whereas theslower bows if you guess it at
22 and it's at 26, you couldmiss the animal completely.
Yeah.
So I got on that speed kick,went with a lighter arrow and it
cost me a couple really nicebucks, and it was just basically
(31:00):
because I lost penetration.
I didn't have any weight behindthat arrow to retain that
kinetic energy to push throughthat animal.
And so that's the importantpart, and typically about 450 to
500 is a good weight to be atfor hunting.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay, yeah, we've talked about that, not only with
regular ammo, but with arrowsis you have this setup and you
have a shot.
You don't get to try that shoton an animal for another year.
Right, yeah, it's not like you.
Well, it didn't work on thisdeer, so I'm going to change it
up and go get my set Now.
Granted, there's some parts inthe country you could, because
(31:37):
you get three deer per day, butthat's not here in the Pacific
Northwest.
We get one and that's it, so youdon't get a whole lot of in the
field practice with what you'redoing.
So it's one of those.
Yeah, I would think it throughbefore you get into the middle
of it and think about that.
So last thing we want to coveris practicing, because I would
(31:58):
imagine it's a skill that canatrophy.
You don't shoot your bow, it'sjust not going to be there.
And also, with archery, it'sbuilding up those muscles too.
So what is really theimportance of creating a plan
for practicing?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
The muscle memory portion of it.
Like you said, the atrophy andwhatnot With archery.
When you develop good form youwant to keep practicing's.
Funny because we had a seminaryesterday at Cross the Divide
(32:38):
and I was telling the guys youknow I've got tons of stories of
guys that don't think they getbuck fever and then I put a
record book buck in front ofthem and now all of a sudden
they're shaking and they didn'tget back to their anchor point
or they didn't get the rifle allthe way up to their cheek or
they weren't even lookingthrough the scope, you know, or
the sights or whatever.
(32:58):
So muscle memory is everythingwhen it comes to that final
moment, that one chance that yougot that season for that target
buck or that bull or whatever,you want to be able to erase
anything that you don't have tothink about.
As far as you want that to besecond nature, it just naturally
you're going to go right towhere you think about.
As far as you want that to besecond nature, it just naturally
(33:19):
you're going to go right towhere you need to.
As far as your anchor point,looking through your peep,
you're ready to go.
Or whatever weapon you're using, you want that muscle memory so
that you eliminate all of theliabilities that could happen.
That won't if you go to that sothat you can focus on what you
need to do to seal the deal.
(33:39):
Pick a spot, squeeze the trigger, stop looking at the antlers.
You know what I mean.
Stop.
You know.
Work on your breathing.
A lot of guys need to calm down.
Gotta get my breathing undercontrol because they can hear
their heartbeat.
You know it's up, it's in theirears, they can just it's just
pounding, you know, know andthey just the adrenaline's going
and everything.
So, yeah, the muscle memory isis everything as far as practice
(34:00):
.
So how often do you practice asmuch as you possibly can?
Okay, there's never.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You can never practice too much and we talked
about how a lot of the rangeswill be the 24-hour access.
And there are a lot.
There are actually quite a fewranges, uh, especially if you're
in a larger city.
Now, if you're in a smallercity, it's going to be a little
harder.
Right right, but one of thenice things archery versus rifle
hunting is you can practice inyour yard.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I mean, if you're talking about a 40 yard shot,
you might be able to set up youknow your target in your yard,
yeah, and pull that off.
So if you were to set up and Iknow you've got a permanent
target set up- in the backyard,but you also have just the carry
around and like when it'sraining I know you or DJ will
stand in the garage and have ona card table set up in the
(34:50):
driveway where you're shootingat it, but what kind of targets
are you using?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
I really like the bulldog targets.
Okay, just because the lifetimewarranty on them oh perfect two
finger, you two finger pull outof the arrow and it's no joke,
it only takes two fingers.
You'll never shoot through thattarget.
You never shoot through thattarget.
And then when it gets all shotup as far as the cover and stuff
, you just call them and theysend you a free cover out.
(35:16):
Oh nice, and you just replaceit.
I mean, it's just like it's theone target that you could
potentially have forever andwhat was the name of it?
bulldog targets they'refantastic not a sponsor, not a
sponsor, that's.
That's what I use for fieldpoints but for, like, uh,
broadheads and that kind ofstuff.
Um, I don't think that itreally.
I don't think there's one outthere that I would say is better
(35:38):
than the other, because theyall, when you start shooting
broadheads, it all gets shot up.
Yeah, you're going to shooteverything up it just they're
doing what they're designed todo and you just need something
that stops, you know, and theblock is always a good one, but
it's, you know, instead ofpulling the arrows out, I
typically take the broadhead offon the backside and then pull
(35:59):
the arrow out.
Okay, yeah, that would probably, you know, because it'll pull
the inserts out or it'll pullthe blades off.
You know, on some mechanicals,yeah, it's a tough target.
Okay, that's where that goes.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
And you mentioned mechanicals.
So mechanicals versus fixed,and we'll end here.
Okay.
Give us your thoughts on all ofthat.
The big debate which is betterthe big debate which is better
mechanicals or fixed broadheads.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
I'm going to tell you whatever you like, whatever you
have confidence in, that's whatyou need to use.
That's what I'm going to tellyou.
Statistically speaking,mechanicals have a higher
harvest rate, a higher recoveryrate than fixed broadheads.
That's not me putting anyemotion or feeling into it.
That is just the numbers.
(36:40):
That's statistics.
You can look that up, you canread it anywhere you want.
Statistically speaking, youhave a better chance of
recovering your animal with amechanical broadhead.
I know everybody wants to saywell, my bow is so fast, the
blades didn't open up or thisdidn't happen.
And the reality is it's okay.
You need to be honest withyourself.
(37:01):
Did you put a good shot on thatanimal?
This is a sport filled withegos and just divas, and a lot
of guys will start pointingfingers elsewhere instead of
pointing fingers back atthemselves and say you know what
?
I didn't make the shot.
I thought I did.
Yeah, the broadhead is going todo what it is designed to do.
Very, very, very seldom Domechanicals go through an animal
(37:23):
and not deploy Very seldom.
And so they have a largercutting diameter.
They fly better because theydon't have the surface area to
plane like a fixed broadheadwill.
Okay.
That's not to say that fixedbroadheads aren't good.
Again, whatever you haveconfidence in, that's what you
use.
But statistically speaking,mechanical broadheads have a
(37:46):
higher recovery rate than fixed.
Yeah, and you've used both.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I've used both.
Yeah, and you've killed withboth.
Yes, I have.
So there you go, I likemechanicals myself.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
There you go, but for several reasons.
I mean my form isn't the best.
I torque my bow.
I cant it because I dislocatedmy shoulder and broke my
collarbone and the way it healedit's really uncomfortable for
me to hold my arm straight upunder pressure like that, and so
my bow tends to be canted.
Pressure like that, and so mybow tends to be canted, and so
(38:19):
it's easier to get a mechanicalto fly better, to fly good
enough, than it is for a fixedbroadhead with my situation.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
All right.
Well, there we go.
We've covered the basics.
Hopefully, enough of the basicsof archery.
I'm sure this is one of thosethat you can talk a lot about,
because there's so much to talkabout.
It's like with guns andanything else like that.
So thanks for tuning in, thanksfor listening, and we will talk
to.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
This is Aaron and I'm Dave, sothis week we are going to do an
intro to bow hunting.
For several years Dave hastried to get me into bow hunting
and I know with the system itworks, as you say, best during
late season, late archery,although there is a late muzzle
loader for some people, as well.
(00:20):
But I'm a gun guy.
I've always stuck with withguns.
But for guys who are interestedin learning how to bow hunt,
that's what this episode is for,and maybe give some new
information for guys who havebeen casual bow hunters.
Okay, possibly, if there issuch a thing, well as far as to
(00:41):
be successful.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You can't be be a casual.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Casual.
Yeah, yeah, it's real hard.
Okay so, starting off, whatkind of bow?
And I think this falls underthe category of when I'm
researching something to buy.
I read five articles andwhatever the consensus is,
that's what I go with.
So if someone is looking intostarting out with bow hunting,
(01:07):
what bow do they need forhunting?
What are great brands versusgood brands versus just don't
buy these particular bows, inyour opinion?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, in my opinion, it's hard to get a bad bow
anymore.
So 15, 20 years ago that wasn'tthe case.
There was a handful ofmanufacturers that were top of
the line and then there was alot of subpar bows that and I
hate to use the word subpar, butthey were lesser simply because
they didn't have all the bellsand whistles or the bow wasn't
(01:39):
balanced as well as it couldhave been and there was just a
bunch of little stuff that wouldtake away from it.
But anymore, with theinnovations that have come with
risers and cam systems andeverything like that, it's hard
to get a bad bow.
When I see somebody that'sgetting into it and wants to
take up archery, the thing thatI advise them to do before they
(02:00):
even go and look for a bow is tofigure out what they're wanting
to do with archery, becausethere's so many different things
.
Are you wanting just to havesomething just to plink around
with?
You know, is this somethingthat you are serious and you
want to get into hunting as faras the archery side of it and
you feel like you're going toput years into it and stuff?
Or do you want to just dotarget?
(02:22):
You know some guys just like dotarget shooting?
You know, yeah, stuff.
Or do you want to just dotarget?
You know some guys just like dotarget shooting, you know yeah,
and you don't want to spend themoney on all the the bells and
whistles for hunting, that youwould for target and vice versa,
and and then after that itwould just depend on your
physical ability.
Um, and what I mean by that isis that as we get older, you
know our muscles they tend toshrink and our joints tend to
hurt a little bit more and youknow we get arthritis and
(02:45):
bursitis and all this stuffgoing on in our body.
You want a cam system or a bowthat has a cam system that is a
very smooth, easy draw, versus ayounger guy who probably
somewhere late teens, twenties,you know, all the way up into
maybe early forties is going todraw like 70 pounds, the way up
(03:07):
into maybe early 40s is going todraw like 70 pounds, you know.
Well, then you probably wantsomething that is just a not
necessarily a smooth draw, asmuch as you want it dead in the
hand.
You want it to be.
What does that mean?
Dead, dead in the hand.
What I mean by that is is theshock, the hand shock, okay,
after you release the string andit goes off, you want something
that's just you know going tobe as dead as possible.
There's not going to be a lotof jump or vibration in that
(03:28):
riser, and so I think it's justyou know.
What do you want it to do?
What are you expecting the bowto perform as?
Do you want something that'sfast or light, or, you know,
there's just a whole mess ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So, when we're thinking about bow brands, what
are, what are, some of the Iwould say better brands that
people should be considering?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
so some of the better or more popular brands that are
on the market yeah, we'll gomore, more popular.
I guess would be uh, I'd say thetop two are probably hoyt and
matthews, and then you'vegottech, which is right up there
with them.
It's very close.
Pse has been in the game a longtime.
You've got Prime, you've gotExpedition, you've got I mean.
(04:14):
There's just a whole plethoraof bow manufacturers out there
now, and some have been flashesin the pan that are no longer on
the market.
You still see the bows outthere, but the manufacturer's
not out there anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Now could that become a problem if someone were to
pick one of those up becausethey can't get replacement?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
parts they can't get.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
yeah, okay so replacement parts, would you say
are they fairly proprietary,meaning you can't swap between a
Hoyt and a Matthews?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Bowtech, between a Hoyt and a Matthews bow tech.
So as far as the bare bowitself, every bow manufacturer
has its own cam system and withthat cam system, whether they're
running modules or whetherthey're running any kind of
tunability or anything like that, it is particular specific to
(05:02):
that brand of bow.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, it is particular, specific to that
brand of bow.
Okay, now are there, would yousay, of of those particular
brands.
Are there any of them that arebetter for beginners?
And I'm thinking of this, offrom from this aspect that
sometimes, if you're a beginner,you want something that's more
forgiving to mistakes.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, so there are certain brands that have a
flagship line and then aentry-level line.
Okay, for instance, matthewMatthew is the top line that
they have, so they would haveall their Matthew bows and then
their entry-level or theirsecond-tier bow brand is Mission
.
Okay.
For Bowtech it's Diamond andthere are a couple more that
(05:50):
have those particular ones andtypically that's what you find.
If you're a beginner, you'llfind your package deals in those
particular lines, in the secondtier line.
Yeah, that makes sense.
(06:13):
And it'll come with a rest, aquiver, sometimes a sight and
maybe a half dozen arrows, whichis a really, and it'll be
discounted, you know.
So it's a really good way toenter into this, especially as a
kid, because I know that whenmy kids were young, the problem
was buy a bow for them and insix months, eight months, they'd
grow out of it.
They've grown out of it yeah.
Yeah, and a lot of the benefitnow is the cam systems are made
adjustable so that you can gofrom a draw length of 24 all the
way to 31.
The problem is is that, youknow, as a kid grows, I mean he
(06:34):
starts pulling more and morepoundage and stuff.
You buy the bow, typically it'sof a lighter poundage, so it's
not that he outgrows itphysically for the draw length,
he just outgrows it physicallyas far as poundage.
It peaks at 35 or 55, and hewants to pull 60 or you know
what I mean?
Yeah, and so in that sense theyoutgrow it that way.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Okay, what would be the entry price for one of those
bows, would you say?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Oh, it'll run you anywhere between.
It depends on the time of year.
Yeah, you know, becauseobviously there are sales,
better sales at certain times ofyear than others, but typically
between five to 800 bucks.
Okay.
You know you can find a deal andstuff.
And if you're really smart andyou want to get into this and
you say, hey, I want to go downto the archery shop, look at a
(07:22):
couple bows, have them, help youset one up so that you can
shoot it, just to feel what itfeels like.
And then, once you've figuredout a brand that you want or a
bow that you want, come home,get on eBay.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And look it up that way.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Get on Facebook there are buy, sell, trade, archery
stuff all the time and type inyour bow and you're going to get
not just the bow, bow, butyou're going to get somebody
that's selling a whole packet.
At me, I see it all the time.
You know a dozen and a halfarrows, a bow.
Barely been shot.
You know, had shoulder surgery,can't do it anymore.
Got in a car wreck.
(07:56):
Don't have time.
Not what I liked, not what Iexpected.
You know all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Well, they're selling it dirt cheap so you can go to
a range and they have variousbows that you can either they'll
set up they'll set up brand newbows.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Some ranges have bows that you can borrow, but those
are typically like recurves andthat kind of stuff.
Okay.
But you can go pull one off theshelf, say, hey, you know I'd
like to shoot this.
You know I'm thinking aboutgetting into this.
You know I want to buy it.
You know I'm thinking aboutgetting into this.
You know I want to buy it.
You know I'm thinking aboutbuying it or whatnot.
And they'll set it up for youand you can shoot it.
Oh, okay, I can think of afriend of mine.
We were on vacation over theholidays over in Bend and we
(08:33):
went into the store archery shopover there.
They set one up for him toshoot and a week later he's
walking out of the store with acompound and out of the store
with a compound.
And you know it, I mean it.
It's a great sport.
As far as that goes.
It's very much a uh,competitive in nature, but it
it's.
It's competitive with yourself.
You're not competing againstother people, you're competing
(08:55):
with yourself.
This is what I shot last time.
Can I beat that?
Can I try and beat that?
Yeah, you know I work on myform and all this stuff and it's
very relaxing.
Some people are competitive,though yeah, some people are
just you know, they want to.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They want, that's fine and that's there too.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That's there too if they want to, but it's very much
a very fun and relaxing sportin that sense and I know there's
lots of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You go to the 3d shoots that you can head down to
the the archery range, you knowthe archery shop that has our
indoor range, so there's lots ofopportunities to go shoot.
I would say even more than ifyou're shooting rifles or yeah,
we've got an outdoor range.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Our club does and we go shoot that throughout the
summer, Anytime we can go.
In the winter we can go in thedead of night if we want.
We've held spook shoots orflashlight shoots and stuff and
those are always fun, and theneven some archery ranges that
are indoor.
They're starting to give you acard key and it allows you into
the range portion of the store,not the retail portion, but the
(09:59):
range portion.
Yes, and so you can go there24-7.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, we have a friend Aaron.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Who does that?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Another, aaron, who bought a bow, but he gets off at
like 4 in the morning and hewould go out immediately after
work.
Right.
And, yeah, let himself in shootfor a half an hour, an hour and
then head home after that.
So there are things when you'reI know, when you're setting up
a bow, and this is one of thethings I was wondering Is there
a break-in period?
So when you buy a rifle youhave to break in the barrel?
(10:27):
Right right or pretty much anygun, but you're breaking in the
barrel.
Is there a break-in?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
period.
For a bow.
For the string, yes.
For the bow, no.
Okay, you always want to.
And not that you can't shootthe string right away, you can.
But if it's going to stretch,it's going to stretch typically
within the first 100 shots.
So you want to get 100 arrowsthrough it before you really
start dialing it in and gettingit set up.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay.
And so when you talk aboutsetting up a bow, you're dialing
in like how much poundage itwould have.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah Well, so getting a bow is just like getting a
rifle.
You want something that'scomfortable, something that
feels good in your hand,something that you like to draw,
something that you like how it.
You know when it shoots, like Iwas saying, is it dead in the
hand, is it jump?
Is there a lot of vibration, alot of hand shock?
It's always good to try outthree or four bows and then pick
the one you like.
You know, and when you set itup, you're going to find a
(11:23):
poundage, especially when you'refirst starting.
You know you're going to find apoundage that's comfortable,
that you can draw multiple timesand still stay steady.
You know it's a lot of musclesthat you've never used before.
It's a lot of back muscles,contrary to what you know, a lot
of people think.
Well, you're always pulling itwith your arms.
It's more shoulder and backthan it is anything else.
(11:44):
And so those muscles build upquickly and, and uh yeah, you
find yourself climbing inpoundage and then you set up for
draw length and all that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Now can draw length change the more comfortable you
get, or is that just a alwayskind of a set?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
well, once you stop growing, it's always a set thing
, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, and one other thing I was wondering they
probably make left-handedright-handed bows.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Are there any of them that arebetter for left-handed versus
right-handed, or is it just testthem all out and just see what
works?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
for you.
Well, if you talk to my littlebrother or bud, our pro staffer,
they're both left-handed.
Okay, and they tell you,everything is better left-handed
.
Okay.
But no, they're good bows.
Just some particular brands areeasier to find in left-hand
than other brands.
Yeah.
(12:38):
And so I've noticed that Budand my brother have had problems
in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, and I know it's like guns.
I mean you can spend a lot ofmoney on bows and getting them
all set up, but are there anyaspects to models, brands,
accessories that you wouldsuggest avoid when someone's
getting started?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, the expensive stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And it sounds funny to say that, but honestly, avoid
the expensive stuff.
You know, and like arrows andstuff, you know that first dozen
arrows you're going to gothrough the quickest.
You're going to lose them,You're going to break them, you
know.
You're just going to mistreatthem because this is something
that is brand new to you.
You don't know all of thelittle idiosyncrasies of what it
(13:25):
is to be an archer, and itsounds funny to say that, but
you don't know how to take careof that weapon and it's a weapon
.
So you're going to break thingson it, You're going to treat it
roughly in times when youshouldn't, just not knowing the
durability of your equipment.
And then there's always.
There's so much on the marketwith so many little tweaks here
and there.
(13:45):
You need to figure out whatyou're going to like before you
start spending money.
Like sights, for instance,Sights man, they can start 120,
180 bucks and climb all the wayup to 500, $600.
So it's like no, do the cheapstuff first.
Find out what you like, Findout what you want.
It's like buying a shotgun.
(14:08):
So if I'm going to go, say,grouse hunting and I go buy a 20
gauge, am I going to be able touse that same 20 gauge if I
decide to go goose hunting?
Yeah.
You see what I'm saying.
But, the thing is I don't knowthat I want to go goose hunting
until I get into this wholeshotgun world and start seeing
what this does and you know whatgauge is better for which and
(14:29):
that kind of thing and what gunfits me really good, and so
there's a whole world out therethat you have to become
acquainted with before youreally start dropping some
serious cash on bows andeverything like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So this is true for the gun world and I don't know
if it's necessarily true in ourtrue world.
I imagine it is to some extent.
So there are some shops youwalk in and, to use your example
, I want a 20 gauge, cause Iwant to go grouse hunting, okay.
Okay.
So I walked into a particularstore over in Portland and who?
(15:04):
They shall remain nameless Iwanted a basic bare bones.
I don't have to care aboutgetting dings on this 20 gauge,
all of that, right, I'm justusing it to go grouse hunting.
And he pulls a $2,000 Benellioff the rack to show me and I'm
(15:25):
like, dude, that's not what Iwant, right?
You know if.
I'm going to drop two grand onthis.
I'm going to be concerned aboutgetting a scratch on it.
I want something that and Ihave Right right.
It slipped and fell over andit's got little dings on it.
I don't care, right, you know,it still functions just fine.
Now are there shops that?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's the thing, too , is knowing what you want that
bow or that weapon to do, okay,and how you're going to treat it
.
That's a great example rightthere.
If I'm thinking you know what?
I'm not sure if I'm going toget into this.
I don't want something that.
I mean, I know guys that havetaken their bows and they've
been out shooting carp and themotor dies and all of a sudden
they're using that bow as apaddle, pulling themselves
through the you know lily padsand crap like that, and it's
like, well, you got to knowyourself enough to know that
(16:14):
this is how I'm going to treatit, yeah, so you don't want to
drop a lot, and the guy's goingto come up and say, hey, you
need this $1,500 bow.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So are there archery shops that, would you say?
Are they mostly trustworthy asfar as steering you towards what
you're describing?
Or are there archery shops that, no matter what you say,
they're going to hand you the,the high-end product right off
the bat and try to sell you that?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I think that that most of the time archery shops
are pretty honest.
Okay, in my experience, in myexperience and and I've worked
in a few uh, I, you, I've gottento know owners of a lot, I know
a lot of archery shops, been toa lot of them and stuff, and I
feel like archers are a littledifferent.
(16:58):
And I don't mean to soundjudgmental or critical of anyone
, but it just seems to me thepattern is that archers seem to
be more serious about thehunting aspect of everything.
So they really get into theirweaponry, they really get into
the performance of it, not thatgun guys don't.
But there's another level, thatarchery guys, because a lot of
(17:22):
them are getting into thearchery target, tournament stuff
, and so they're really breakingit down and it's like every
point that you drop in atournament is critical, whether
it's indoor or outdoor, and guysare really getting into that
and knowing their weapon.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I would say that that's definitely true.
They would probably be theequivalent of guys who
long-range hunt Exactly, who areshooting 500-yard shots or
above because they want to knowevery detail about their bullet,
about their rifle, about theirbarrel, about their optics.
They're getting all realtop-of-the-line stuff.
I went out with a .44 Magnumlever action and then finished
(18:03):
with my .44 pistol to go outhunting because it's in close
and I had to tweak the ammo, butI didn't have to necessarily
dial things in.
I'm shooting something at 12yards away.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Right and, like the average rifle guy, if you said,
hey, can you dope the wind forme, they're not going to have a
clue as to what you're talkingabout.
And I'm not saying becausethere is those guys that do that
, but that would be in the rifleworld.
I think that's probably 10% ofall rifle owners, Whereas I feel
like in the archery worldbecause you are closer, you have
(18:40):
to get closer.
There's so many aspects as towhat can go wrong that most guys
are spending more time withtheir weapon and getting to know
that weapon to a greater extentthan the average rifle hunter.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, and we'll get more into arrows and broadheads
and everything like that in aminute, but would you say that
you might want to be looking ata different type of bow or
different equipment, dependingon the type of hunting you want
to do?
So if you're going to primarilyelk hunt versus black-tailed
deer versus mule deer versusbear, versus, you know there's
(19:14):
and I and I'm sure there's a lotwith the arrows that you're
using, but does it matter withthe bows, would there be
something that, if you knowyou're going to be doing 40, 60
yards and correct me if I'mwrong about 80 is about your,
the limit that you want to takea shot with a?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
bow, or that's a personal thing, okay, you know.
I mean, I know Cameron Haynes.
He practices at 100 to 120yards.
You know which is incredibleyou know, but that's Cameron
Haynes, and I know some guys youknow Blake Jerome and some
other guys that practice likethat also, but that's not the
average guy.
(19:51):
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
And kudos to those guys becausethey're very good at it and
stuff but I know my limits.
Yeah.
And I can push my limits, but Irespect that animal enough.
Not that those guys don't,because they do.
They're very good long rangeshooters.
I am not and just being honestwith myself, it's like okay, so
60 yards is probably my max.
Could I hit the animal at 70,80?
(20:12):
Yeah, I could, but I'm notguaranteeing that it's going to
be a kill shot and I want tohave that.
I want to be ethical about it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, going back to the ethical yeah, knowing my
limits and stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But I think, more than the bow, I think it's more
the broadhead and the arrow whenyou start changing the species
of game that you're after.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay.
So before we jump into thatbecause I do have that on my
notes to talk about that whataccessories?
So you've bought your bow andyou bought your bow with the
intent to go hunting with it.
What are the accessories thatyou are going to need when
you're going out hunting?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Okay.
So obviously, a sight, okay, aquiver, a rest and a peep and a
release, that's it, that's allyou need.
Okay, as far as bare bones,essentials, that's what you need
.
And then obviously, arrows andbroadheads, but I mean
accessories on the bow, that'swhat you need.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, now let's talk about arrows and broadhead.
You're obviously not practicingwith broadheads.
In fact, you can't practicewith broadheads as far as at a
public range, can you?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Not at a well like our range.
Our club range has a broadheadpit, Okay, and so you can shoot
broadheads at the broadhead pit,but that's it.
It's solely excluded to thatarea right there not to be used
on the range, out on the courseor anything like that.
It's strictly in that broadheadpit, okay.
(21:39):
And then you can practice withbroadheads, you know, at your
leisure, on your own property orat your house, whatever, but
those, when I practice withthose broad, I don't use those
broadheads, because every timeyou shoot it into your target
you're dulling that blade.
Yeah, you know, and so I won'tuse those broadheads.
(21:59):
I'm just going to say, okay,here's the arrow flight, do I
need to tune something?
And whatnot?
And I change that broadhead asI tune all the arrows to my
broadheads.
I just rotate that broadheadfrom arrow to arrow to arrow to
arrow so that I get it tuned,okay, and then and I was
wondering about that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So if you were to try new broadheads, you would buy
some, basically some throwawaysto go practice with.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, I know with buyingself-defense rounds for my
pistol.
Anytime I buy new rounds,except for if they're just
straight plinking rounds, I'mputting a magazine or two or a
(22:38):
cylinder or two through myhandguns of self-defense rounds.
I buy a couple boxes with theplan to shoot one of those boxes
so that I have a feel for whatthat's going to do.
So you do the same thing witharrows and broadheads when
you're trying out new stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, so there's always guaranteed that there's
going to be a.
I buy a pack with the intentthat these will never be used
hunting.
These are strictly for sightingin tuning my arrows and
sighting in my bow to thebroadheads.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, and do you find that different arrows,
everything those can there's abig variance on how those react
when you shoot them?
I would imagine.
Yeah, different weights and.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah.
So I mean it's funny.
You say this because when Ifirst started, you know, when I
was younger and getting into biggame hunting, archery, you know
it was just buy the arrows, putthe broadheads on there, didn't
check to see how they spun,didn't check the spine or
anything like that, and hey,let's go out and shoot some deer
or elk or whatnot.
And the longer I've been in it,the more I realize there's a
(23:40):
lot more to it than just that.
You know you want to spine,check your arrow shafts, you
want to spin them, you know tomake sure that they're all
spinning really good and tight.
And you want to find the spineon that shaft so that you can
put your cock vein the same onevery shaft on, so that it's on
the spine of every, so thatevery arrow comes out of that
riser the same.
(24:01):
You want to use the same nocks.
All nocks don't come off theriser the same, they come out
differently.
Guys will shoot regular, theirregular no knocks, practice, and
then when it comes to huntingthey'll throw on some kind of
lighted knock.
Well, I was shooting gold tipsand man all summer long shooting
them great, and they're justflying like darts and I'm just
hitting everything, and then Iput on the nocturnal, which is a
(24:23):
lighted knock, and it was eightinches of difference at 20
yards.
Because, of how that arrow cameout of the riser with that knock
on.
Yeah.
How it gripped the string andall that.
So it all plays a role in howthat arrow flies and that's why
there's a whole old saying inthe sports world that you
practice how you play.
Well, it's the same witharchery.
(24:44):
When it gets time, that lastmonth, so if season starts in
September, all of August it'sworking on my broadheads and
tuning my arrows and shootingthem with those practice
broadhead tips and the real deal.
Everything I'm going to usewhen it comes to game time is on
that arrow and it's go timeOkay.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
What do you mean by so?
We'll get into some definitionshere.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So spine that is the stiffness of the arrow.
Okay, and so the way arrows aremade is that everything is
graphite or carbon.
Now, okay, when I first startedit was aluminum and that was
pretty much all you had.
There was a small run offiberglass or whatnot, but now
it's all carbon or graphitearrows.
(25:29):
And how they make it is theyhave a stencil or they have a
round disc with a bunch of holesin it and they push these
stencils through it and theycan't maintain, they can't
monitor how many of thosestencils go into each hole.
So one may have, you know,let's say, 15 of the stencils or
the fibers in there, and theother one over here may only
have 12.
, and then the one next to it onthe other side might have 13.
(25:52):
You know what I mean?
Well, the one that has 15,that's going to be the stiffest
part, okay, running down thatshaft and so the way that it's
all bound together and how theypush that through there and
stuff not being able to monitorhow many of those fibers go into
each, or the stencils go intoeach hole.
It changes the spine on thearrow, but every arrow will have
(26:13):
at least one stiff side, okay,and so you want to find that
stiff side and typically I liketo make it so that my cock vein
or my odd color vein is right onthat stiff spine.
Yeah.
And so that if I put the arrowin the riser and attach it to
the string, with that stiff partpointing to the same spot on
(26:34):
every arrow.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's going to have the same performance.
It's going to hit the same spotdown range.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Theoretically yes.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, and how do they the spine, that's the 300, 400,
500?
Correct?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Correct the numbers on there 350, 400,.
Yeah, okay 500?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Correct, correct the numbers on there 350, 400.
Yeah, okay Now.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Arrow length is that a thing?
And weight of the arrow itself?
Yep, and the trueness of thestraightness of the arrow.
So every arrow just like bowmanufacturers has a line like
gold tip, has a whole line ofarrows.
Okay, and they've had theirbest, their platinum pierce,
they've got their just regulargold tips and they have all
these different arrows in allthese different arrow lines and
(27:17):
gold tip, and some, the cheaperend of those are going to be the
ones that aren't as true, don'thave real good trueness as far
as compared to the ones that areat the top.
You know what I mean.
And they're all going to be adifferent amount of weight per
inch of the arrow they're goingto have a certain amount.
So it'll be like 8.9 grains perinch of arrow, or some will be
7.
Such and such per inch of arrow, and that's how you start
(27:40):
adding up your arrow weight.
So then you find out how manygrains your arrow is according
to your draw length, and theshop should be able to set you
up accordingly.
Okay.
So that's something that thefirst couple you want somebody
that knows what they're doing toget you set up with your draw
length and then to have thearrows cut to your length now do
they come pre-cut, or is thatbecause they assemble the arrows
(28:03):
?
for you.
You can buy them assembled asfar as the veins and the knot,
but you always get them cut toyou.
Okay, yeah, and that's why,when you go in to get arrows,
always take your bow.
It's an arrow that's got themeasurements on it and stuff,
and they can say, okay, this iswhere we need to cut.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So when you draw, back, they would place that
arrow on there and then get theexact measurement, right, okay,
okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Now for broadheads.
Okay, that makes sense Now forbroadheads.
So those would go by weight.
So there's a lot of discussionbetween mechanical and fixed.
Okay, so we'll get into that,because we've had a lot of those
questions recently and stuff.
But there's also weight is aconsideration for your
(28:48):
broadheads.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So weight is always a consideration.
Weight is a consideration foryour broadheads, so weight is
always a consideration.
So everything that has to dowith the arrow and the broadhead
and the weight and all that isalways in grains, okay, so your
veins are typically five to 15grains for each vein.
You know, guys will weigh themout.
So your target shooters, yourserious hunters, they're going
to weigh every component of thatarrow individually.
So they add it up and once theyget it, it's like with
(29:12):
reloading a bullet.
Reloading yeah.
Your powder.
You're going to get it rightdown to the exact grain of what
you're putting in it, becauseyou want that same hot load.
You don't want it any hotter,you don't want it any less.
Yeah.
You know, so that that bullethits the same spot every time.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I have a friend who he will go with tweezers to load
the powder into the casings sothat they're exactly the same.
Yeah, and I think he goes downto like not just the 10th of a
grain but 100th, yeah, yeah, hewants them to be exactly the
same for the exact sameperformance.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, and if you look at these guys that are
professional target shooters, Imean they do that with every
arrow.
They'll get a dozen arrows andthey'll find the you know.
They may go through three dozento find, you know, a set of what
they consider really goodstraightness or trueness, and
then they'll shoot those at atournament and once that
tournament's over, they don'tshoot them anymore, they just
(30:15):
throw them away and they'll getanother two or three dozen and
do the same thing over again.
Yeah, yeah.
So it as far as the weight ofthe arrow, you you want
something and this is this haskind of burned me in the past
because I I got on a speed kick,and when you get on a speed
kick, it's so that you don'thave to worry about guessing
wrong on the yardage.
You can use the same pin from20, even out to 40 yards, with
as fast as the bows are today,and so you could guess it at 22
(30:37):
and it's at 30, but that one pinis going to cover that.
So even if you guess theyardage wrong, you're still
hitting kill zone, whereas theslower bows if you guess it at
22 and it's at 26, you couldmiss the animal completely.
Yeah.
So I got on that speed kick,went with a lighter arrow and it
cost me a couple really nicebucks, and it was just basically
(31:00):
because I lost penetration.
I didn't have any weight behindthat arrow to retain that
kinetic energy to push throughthat animal.
And so that's the importantpart, and typically about 450 to
500 is a good weight to be atfor hunting.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay, yeah, we've talked about that, not only with
regular ammo, but with arrowsis you have this setup and you
have a shot.
You don't get to try that shoton an animal for another year.
Right, yeah, it's not like you.
Well, it didn't work on thisdeer, so I'm going to change it
up and go get my set Now.
Granted, there's some parts inthe country you could, because
(31:37):
you get three deer per day, butthat's not here in the Pacific
Northwest.
We get one and that's it, so youdon't get a whole lot of in the
field practice with what you'redoing.
So it's one of those.
Yeah, I would think it throughbefore you get into the middle
of it and think about that.
So last thing we want to coveris practicing, because I would
(31:58):
imagine it's a skill that canatrophy.
You don't shoot your bow, it'sjust not going to be there.
And also, with archery, it'sbuilding up those muscles too.
So what is really theimportance of creating a plan
for practicing?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
The muscle memory portion of it.
Like you said, the atrophy andwhatnot With archery.
When you develop good form youwant to keep practicing's.
Funny because we had a seminaryesterday at Cross the Divide
(32:38):
and I was telling the guys youknow I've got tons of stories of
guys that don't think they getbuck fever and then I put a
record book buck in front ofthem and now all of a sudden
they're shaking and they didn'tget back to their anchor point
or they didn't get the rifle allthe way up to their cheek or
they weren't even lookingthrough the scope, you know, or
the sights or whatever.
(32:58):
So muscle memory is everythingwhen it comes to that final
moment, that one chance that yougot that season for that target
buck or that bull or whatever,you want to be able to erase
anything that you don't have tothink about.
As far as you want that to besecond nature, it just naturally
you're going to go right towhere you think about.
As far as you want that to besecond nature, it just naturally
(33:19):
you're going to go right towhere you need to.
As far as your anchor point,looking through your peep,
you're ready to go.
Or whatever weapon you're using, you want that muscle memory so
that you eliminate all of theliabilities that could happen.
That won't if you go to that sothat you can focus on what you
need to do to seal the deal.
(33:39):
Pick a spot, squeeze the trigger, stop looking at the antlers.
You know what I mean.
Stop.
You know.
Work on your breathing.
A lot of guys need to calm down.
Gotta get my breathing undercontrol because they can hear
their heartbeat.
You know it's up, it's in theirears, they can just it's just
pounding, you know, know andthey just the adrenaline's going
and everything.
So, yeah, the muscle memory isis everything as far as practice
(34:00):
.
So how often do you practice asmuch as you possibly can?
Okay, there's never.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You can never practice too much and we talked
about how a lot of the rangeswill be the 24-hour access.
And there are a lot.
There are actually quite a fewranges, uh, especially if you're
in a larger city.
Now, if you're in a smallercity, it's going to be a little
harder.
Right right, but one of thenice things archery versus rifle
hunting is you can practice inyour yard.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I mean, if you're talking about a 40 yard shot,
you might be able to set up youknow your target in your yard,
yeah, and pull that off.
So if you were to set up and Iknow you've got a permanent
target set up- in the backyard,but you also have just the carry
around and like when it'sraining I know you or DJ will
stand in the garage and have ona card table set up in the
(34:50):
driveway where you're shootingat it, but what kind of targets
are you using?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
I really like the bulldog targets.
Okay, just because the lifetimewarranty on them oh perfect two
finger, you two finger pull outof the arrow and it's no joke,
it only takes two fingers.
You'll never shoot through thattarget.
You never shoot through thattarget.
And then when it gets all shotup as far as the cover and stuff
, you just call them and theysend you a free cover out.
(35:16):
Oh nice, and you just replaceit.
I mean, it's just like it's theone target that you could
potentially have forever andwhat was the name of it?
bulldog targets they'refantastic not a sponsor, not a
sponsor, that's.
That's what I use for fieldpoints but for, like, uh,
broadheads and that kind ofstuff.
Um, I don't think that itreally.
I don't think there's one outthere that I would say is better
(35:38):
than the other, because theyall, when you start shooting
broadheads, it all gets shot up.
Yeah, you're going to shooteverything up it just they're
doing what they're designed todo and you just need something
that stops, you know, and theblock is always a good one, but
it's, you know, instead ofpulling the arrows out, I
typically take the broadhead offon the backside and then pull
(35:59):
the arrow out.
Okay, yeah, that would probably, you know, because it'll pull
the inserts out or it'll pullthe blades off.
You know, on some mechanicals,yeah, it's a tough target.
Okay, that's where that goes.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
And you mentioned mechanicals.
So mechanicals versus fixed,and we'll end here.
Okay.
Give us your thoughts on all ofthat.
The big debate which is betterthe big debate which is better
mechanicals or fixed broadheads.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
I'm going to tell you whatever you like, whatever you
have confidence in, that's whatyou need to use.
That's what I'm going to tellyou.
Statistically speaking,mechanicals have a higher
harvest rate, a higher recoveryrate than fixed broadheads.
That's not me putting anyemotion or feeling into it.
That is just the numbers.
(36:40):
That's statistics.
You can look that up, you canread it anywhere you want.
Statistically speaking, youhave a better chance of
recovering your animal with amechanical broadhead.
I know everybody wants to saywell, my bow is so fast, the
blades didn't open up or thisdidn't happen.
And the reality is it's okay.
You need to be honest withyourself.
(37:01):
Did you put a good shot on thatanimal?
This is a sport filled withegos and just divas, and a lot
of guys will start pointingfingers elsewhere instead of
pointing fingers back atthemselves and say you know what
?
I didn't make the shot.
I thought I did.
Yeah, the broadhead is going todo what it is designed to do.
Very, very, very seldom Domechanicals go through an animal
(37:23):
and not deploy Very seldom.
And so they have a largercutting diameter.
They fly better because theydon't have the surface area to
plane like a fixed broadheadwill.
Okay.
That's not to say that fixedbroadheads aren't good.
Again, whatever you haveconfidence in, that's what you
use.
But statistically speaking,mechanical broadheads have a
(37:46):
higher recovery rate than fixed.
Yeah, and you've used both.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I've used both.
Yeah, and you've killed withboth.
Yes, I have.
So there you go, I likemechanicals myself.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
There you go, but for several reasons.
I mean my form isn't the best.
I torque my bow.
I cant it because I dislocatedmy shoulder and broke my
collarbone and the way it healedit's really uncomfortable for
me to hold my arm straight upunder pressure like that, and so
my bow tends to be canted.
Pressure like that, and so mybow tends to be canted, and so
(38:19):
it's easier to get a mechanicalto fly better, to fly good
enough, than it is for a fixedbroadhead with my situation.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
All right.
Well, there we go.
We've covered the basics.
Hopefully, enough of the basicsof archery.
I'm sure this is one of thosethat you can talk a lot about,
because there's so much to talkabout.
It's like with guns andanything else like that.
So thanks for tuning in, thanksfor listening, and we will talk
to.
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