September 29, 2025 • 47 mins
Meet Smokey Crews, a living legend in the bowhunting world whose journey from self-taught hunter to record book champion offers profound lessons for archers of all skill levels. Known as "Mr. Roosevelt" for his exceptional success with trophy elk, Smokey's story begins with a seven-year-old boy hunting squirrels alone with a .22 rifle, never having a mentor to guide him.
Smokey takes us back to the early 1960s, when he hunted the boundaries of Olympic National Park with his first bow – a $23 Ben Pearson recurve. His vivid descriptions of elk herds that modern hunters can only dream about transport listeners to a different era of American hunting. "If I had a chance to hunt elk then like I do now, I would hold world records," he reflects, sharing encounters with bulls that would have broken world records at the time.
What truly sets Smokey apart isn't just his impressive collection of record book animals, but his philosophy on archery excellence. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes that good form and proper follow-through matter more than where the arrow lands. "The sign of a good shot is shooting with good form, regardless of where the arrow hits," he explains, a principle that has influenced countless archers, including podcast host Dave. This wisdom – focusing on process rather than outcome – offers a powerful framework for improvement that transcends archery.
Now 83, with neuropathy in his feet and two artificial hips, Smokey continues to pursue his twin passions of archery and fly fishing with remarkable dedication. His humility, combined with his encyclopedic knowledge of archery's evolution from traditional to modern techniques, makes this conversation an essential listen for anyone serious about improving their skills. Whether you're a seasoned bowhunter or just beginning your archery journey, Smokey's experiences provide both practical insights and inspirational fuel for your own pursuit of excellence.
Subscribe now to hear the remaining episodes with Smokey Crews and learn more from one of bowhunting's most accomplished practitioners.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Thanks for joining us for the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
This is part one of three withSmokey Cruz.
See you next week.
Welcome back to the Black TaleCoach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
So today, as we've mentionedbefore, we have Smokey Cruise
on, and there's going to be alot of good stories and a lot of
great advice.
And we're really looking forwardto this.
(00:22):
I know a lot of the listeners,just from the comments you've
left on the podcast, a lot ofguys are really looking forward
to this.
So thank you for coming, talkingwith us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Absolutely, Smoke.
Thank you.
No problem.
I want to, I know I speak formyself and my family, a lot of
people that you've taughtthroughout the years.
You've not only been a mentorhunting, but I know for my
family, we consider you an a netfamily, and we love you guys,
and I'm so happy that we're ableto do this interview.
(00:54):
This is truly a blessing for me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Well, anything I can do to help you, just let me
know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Okay, so let's get things kicked off here.
How did you get started inhunting?
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Is this like a family, like you learn from your
dad or my dad worked all weeklong in the woods in a camp and
he'd come home on weekends.
Uh-huh.
Never had time to take mehunting.
I had an older brother, fouryears older than mine, and he'd
hunt ducks or something once ina while, but he wasn't really
into hunting.
And I started thinking atsquirrels and stuff when I was
(01:26):
seven years old with a 22.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Over the year, I never had anybody to take me.
And then I went into service andI come home a few years later,
and first thing I had a friendthat wanted to take me out elk
hunting, and I shot a fork andhorned bull the first day, and I
didn't even know what end of thearrow I was shooting at him.
And that would get anybodygoing.
That guy I was hunting with, andhim and I would hunt every
(01:51):
weekend and elk season, andeverything came along that was
close at home.
Mostly we lived in Central andwe'd drive a hundred miles to go
hunt elk because there was noelk where I was.
Oh.
And in the Centralia area, therewas no elk at that time?
No.
Oh, really?
Well, they might have been downtoward PL or something.
Uh-huh.
(02:11):
And there was no elk there.
I think they seen three or fourelk that had come from way over
on a far side, the north side ofthe Capitol Forest.
Some farmer lived in a vicinityI did seen three bulls in his
yard one spring, and that's theonly time they ever seen elk
there.
Really?
So I never really had access toelk or anything.
(02:33):
And never had my dad was goneall the time, and he wanted to
be at home and doing choresaround the house and with mom,
and I had three brothers, sothere was all kinds of strings
pulling on him.
I just hunted by myself.
I went everywhere I could bymyself.
I'd go up in the woods, spendthree or four or five hours
walking up in the hills and comehome.
(02:53):
And the next day I might go geta shotgun to go with ducks on a
river a couple hundred yardsfrom where we lived.
Well, I never really had anybodyteach me anything about hunting.
Believe it or not, I had an olddouble-barrel Damascus twisted
12-gauge shotgun that was madein the 1910 or 12 or something
(03:16):
like that.
That's what I hunted with, and Icouldn't use high-powered
shotgun shells because we didn'tknow if the shotgun would hold
together.
And it had the great big hugehammers on.
You had to pull both hands onit, just about to pull them
back.
And sometimes I had to pull theright, shoot the right barrel
first because I shot the leftbarrel, but both of them would
go off at the same time.
(03:38):
So I just I just went myneighbors didn't care if I
hunted around or behind theirhouses and any yard, fields
behind their places or up on ahill.
Or I never caused them noproblem.
I never went in their yard orshot up anything.
And so mom and dad just let merun.
I mean, I was six, seven yearsold when I got 22 to go hunting
(04:00):
squirrels and or whatever I raninto, a grouse or a or a skunk
or anything in the woods.
I was and I'd get home when Igot home.
Mom, and it was the same withfishing.
There was a river just a couplehundred yards from the house,
and I'd go down there fishing.
I'd dig worms in a field myuncle owned and fish all day,
and mom wouldn't worry about it.
(04:21):
She knew I was going to comehome wet to the bone and uh half
the time barefooted, butsometimes I'd have a little
trout and sometimes I wouldn't,but they never worried about me
where I went or what I did.
And I just kind of grew up thathunting was all right and that I
wanted to hunt as much as Icould.
And I hunted during rifle seasonfor deer.
(04:43):
I remember one time I took a bowout and hunted it.
My brother had bought to use,and I snuck it out of the house,
went hunting deer with a coupletimes, got myself beat up for
it.
For some reason, my brotherthought I ought to ask.
Yeah.
And then I went in the militaryand I come home and went with
(05:03):
that friend of mine from he wasfrom Shahalas, and I was from
Rochester, it's about 15 milesout of Centre area.
We just started hunting up theretogether, and it was a bow and
arrow season that we hunted.
It was called the late archeryseason in December.
And we hunted on the edges ofthe Olympic National Forest
Park.
And there were signs all overthe trees saying park boundary,
(05:27):
park boundary.
So we just walked that parkboundary, and there were just
loads of oh, I mean, youcouldn't go up there without
running into elk sometime oranother during the day if you
walked along that boundary, oreven if you strayed from it,
went out into area you weresupposed to be, you'd run into
elk.
We're talking 1962, okay, 1963and four.
(05:52):
It's a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
Two or three.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
I remember when I bought a Ben Pearson bow,
recurved bow.
The curve was on the end of thelimb, about three inches long.
Otherwise, it was a straightlimb bow, except for that little
curl on each end.
It was a 50-pound, cost me 23bucks.
Fiberglass arrows had come inout about that time, and I I
(06:19):
went in a Yardbird's there inCentre between the two cities,
Centrea and Chehalas, twincities, and I bought a dozen
fiberglass arrows.
And that was about the same timethey were coming out and getting
popular, so I bought fiberglass.
It had high precisionthree-bladed broadheads on the
arrows already glued up andeverything.
(06:40):
And I had to walk about a half amile across the fields there
where I lived to get to myneighbor's place and ask him if
I could borrow Bale A to shootat for practice.
SPEAKER_03 (06:51):
And you had to pack that hay all the way back.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
And uh he was an older man, him and his wife, and
they were from Sweden, talkedreal broken English.
But their son went to schoolwith my son, my brother, my
older brother, and uh graduatedtogether out of high school.
So they were like most peopleare when they know their
neighbors, or kid wants to shoota bale, hey, they'll do it.
(07:18):
That's what happened.
I can't remember exactly, but itwas within the next year that
there was a club in Centralia,Archery Club, and they had a
couple of guys that would go tothe fairgrounds and shoot
indoors in a winter.
I don't know how they swung itbecause it was a county
fairground, and they were just acouple of private citizens, but
(07:41):
they must have known somebody.
It's been so long I don'tremember.
But we'd go to get together likeevery Wednesday night and go
into one of them big fairgroundbuildings and set up a couple of
bales and shoot our bows andarrow.
And they did a little tournamentshooting.
At that time, I never knewanything about tournaments.
I was 21 or 22 then.
And uh I had just got marriedand had a little boy, and so
(08:06):
that's how I got startedshooting a bow and arrow was
with that guy I ran into, whenwe go elk hunting with him, was
real friendly and stuff.
We went elk hunting, we droveclean to Olympics, was 75 or 100
miles one way, and we'd drive upthere and hunt, and sometimes
we'd find a motel room for thenight, and sometimes we
wouldn't, and sometimes we'ddrive home.
(08:28):
But it was rare that we didn'tgo up there and get into herds
of elk.
If I had a chance to hunt elkthen, like I do now, I would
hold world records.
I can remember the first day Iwent elk hunting, I did shoot a
fork at hornbill.
The next year I went huntingbecause I had an elk.
So the next year I went hunting,the first day that second year,
(08:51):
I missed a seven-point bull elkat 20 yards three times.
I missed a six-point bull a fewminutes later at 15 yards.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
And beginner's luck.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
I mean, the elk were thick.
I mean, the first the first timeI went up that year into
hunting, I walked up this roadwhere we parked the car because
you couldn't go no farther.
It was washed out.
And I walked up past that abouta half a mile and they came into
being an old clear cut.
It was just below a mountaincalled Mount Matheny Ridge.
And it was up at the very end ofCanoe Creek Road.
(09:24):
And at the end of that road, youcould look right up in the air,
quite a few thousand feet, seethe top of Mount Matheny.
And there was it was a clearcut, probably a couple hundred
acre clear-cut, but it had butthe jack fur in it was thick,
and they were probably 15 feethigh, and it was raining like a
(09:44):
like you're in a shower.
And I walked around a corner onthe end of the road, there was a
herd of elk all over all aroundthe end of it.
I mean, you could hear thembarking and beeping and bugling
and everything all around theend of the road.
Three of them were up on thehill, and I think at the time
the world record was like a 260or something like that, 280.
(10:09):
Wasn't what you call a monsternow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
But there were three of them there.
All three of them would havebroke the world record at the
time.
And I decided to go down thehill because I didn't want to
walk up the hill through allthat jack fur and get soaking
wet.
And I walked down the hill andI'd hadn't gone 20 yards off the
end of the road, and a wholebunch of elk ran by, and I took
a shot at a cow and hit her inthe back, in the back of the
front leg, and it was underneathher armpit, and it finally cut
(10:35):
enough that we found her down atthe bottom.
Of course it was down at thebottom.
And then she crossed MartiniCreek and died just on the other
side, and it was a Chinook windcome up, and uh it was a foot or
a foot and a half of snow.
And by the time we could gutthat cow out and drag her to the
(10:55):
creek was raging, probablyinstead of halfway to your knee,
it was halfway to your waist,top of your waist, and it was
roaring down through there likea flood coming from Mount
Masudas or something.
It was a horrible day, ahorrible flooded crick.
So what we did is I had to scootacross on a log that was clean
(11:18):
across the crick, right aboutwhere the cow would land.
I scooted across there, set downa log and scooted inches of a
time across that log, and thengot off on the other side and
butchered the cow out and putthe stuff on my backpack and
skiddied back across the crick.
I had to do that because therewas no way you couldn't get in a
crick.
Oh yeah.
(11:38):
You couldn't get in a crick.
Well we got the cow out.
And there turned out to be twoor three guys from Centre before
it was over the years that Ihunted with that hunted that
same area.
It was a good area.
Every day we went up there,somebody got into the elk
anyway.
I don't never remember gettinganything unusual for the area.
(12:04):
I mean, it what was nowadays, ifyou'd have hunted, if I'd have
hunted that nowadays, I'd havehad a dozen record book bulls
and six points and stuff.
There was just elk everywhere.
But we're hunting the border ofthe Olympic National Park.
We only had to go walk a couplehundred yards through the timber
to get to the boundary line, andall the trees on the boundary
(12:27):
line, every tree that was on theboundary had a big yellow sign
that says Olympic National Park.
So you could follow them up ordown or hunt between it and the
road where we drove in on, or soyou couldn't hunt in the park.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
Oh no, nobody.
Oh, you still can't.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
No.
It was the Olympic NationalPark.
Yeah.
And which is part of the Olympicmountain range.
Yeah.
But there was lots, there waslots of elk there.
And I shot a deer there onetime, and I couldn't find her.
And it had run about 40 yardsafter I shot it.
It was bounding, and I wasfalling in the track of the
(13:05):
snow, because of about a foot ofsnow.
And then pretty soon there wasno tracks.
I couldn't figure out whathappened is she jumped, fell in
a hole, and died in that hole.
And then walked right by it andnever figured out before dark.
And it was just before dark thatshe'd win that hole.
So the two of us went back thenext day.
I was hunting with a guy andwalked right up there and looked
(13:26):
down.
Oh, there she is, because enoughdaylight you could see.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
So were you uh archery hunting from the start?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yes.
When I got out of the military,I did.
I shot a couple of elk with arifle.
Okay.
I think even after I got out ofthe military, I hunted a couple
times with a rifle because thesame guy I started archery
hunting one wanted me to gorifle hunting with him.
But I didn't prefer it.
And I think after about twoyears, I haven't done anything
(13:54):
since.
I okay.
When I was taking bear huntersout and stuff, if they want to
hunt with that, it's fine.
But my idea of hunting eversince there has been archery.
I mean, I don't care if a guyhunts with a gun.
I got rifles and pistols andstuff, but they're in a safe a
(14:14):
couple of them.
I haven't even shot and they'rebrand new.
And I've had them for five orsix years.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
Smoke, you are a very accomplished hunter.
You have multiple record bookanimals, not just elk and deer,
but you know, mountain goat,black bear, caribou.
You and Annette have doneeverything.
And you were Mr.
You're known as Mr.
Roosevelt in the record books.
(14:41):
So how did you go from that tonothing now?
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
At my age, I can't do nothing.
So how'd I get there?
I mean, just old age.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
Just because you were self-taught.
What do you attribute thatseparated you from everybody
else?
SPEAKER_04 (14:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
I think I was just a year or so after I was out of
the military and married mywife, and we had a kid on the
way.
I moved to Centre, startedworking for warehouse in a
plywood.
And they had a really activeclub here in town, and I wanted
to shoot my bow and arrow, and Iran into a couple guys that were
leaders in that club, you mightsay, and they did it.
(15:20):
And so I ran into them and theyinvited me to join the club, and
I did.
I'm kind of a if I get hooked onsomething like archery, I'm
hooked on it.
I don't try and look at riflehunting anymore.
I try and look at archery andfigure out how to hunt archery
and be successful.
(15:40):
I put way too much time in it asa husband and a worker to try
and make a living and be a goodfamily mind too, meaning that I
push my limits all the time withthe family and any spare time I
got.
It cost me two or three wives.
I'm on my third wife, and herand I have been married for 40,
(16:03):
about 43 years.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
You had to think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
Well, I got to say it was 82 and it's 25 now, so
it's 23 years.
Good at math.
That's the only thing I was goodin school is math.
I was good at getting my buttonbeat, and so on.
I'm the kind of a guy that if Ilike fishing, I like flying.
I started out fishing with gear,drift fishing, and I learned how
(16:29):
to do it.
Then I bought a bunch of fliesin Japan when I was in Japan in
the military and brought themhome.
And I think I paid 50 cents for50 flies.
Oh, yeah.
They were on a cardboard box,and I brought them home.
And I my wife and I moved backclose to where my father and mom
lived, maybe a mile or so fromthem.
And there was a little placecalled Black River out by
(16:50):
Rochester that ran by the house.
And I went out there one nightand threw a few flies out there.
And the first fly I tried was agray ghost streamer, and a fish
stole the fly, and I was mad.
I went back to the house and gotanother gray ghost, went back
there and cast it out again.
Another fish came by and stoleit.
And I think it hooked me.
(17:11):
And I never fly fished seriouslyfor several years after that.
In 2021, I wore my hips out, andthe doctor said I needed new
ones.
So while I was recuperating, ittook about seven months to get
them replaced.
I started fly fishing on theCalyx River, and I'm still fly
(17:31):
fishing on the Calyx River.
In fact, I built a fly or twojust minutes before I left the
house to come here.
And I'm very addicted.
I got about nine fly rods, Ithink, in the house and shop.
I've got probably three or fourhundred flies that I've built
over the years.
And some of them work, some ofthem don't.
(17:52):
And the ones that don't are theones I didn't catch a fish on.
The ones that do work is the oneI did catch a fish on.
So I'm addicted to that too.
Forty years ago, my wife and Igot married, and she's my third
wife, and she's just addicted tofly fishing and archery hunting
as I am.
Fortunately for me and for herboth, because I can't and don't
(18:15):
want to stop fly fishing.
I can't and don't want to stoparchery hunting.
Now I archery hunt, but uh I'm83 years old.
I got neuropathy of my feet.
I can't feel nothing from mylegs down.
I got a brace on each leg.
I've had two artificial hips,and I can tell you about 15
other operations I've had overthe years, and it starts at my
(18:38):
big toe and runs all the way tomy throat, and actually all the
way because I had my eyes lasertwice.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
So you're practically brand new.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Yeah, I'm just a couple of screws short of having
all new parts.
We can build it.
And I would have liked to have adad to hunt and fish with my dad
liked to hunt, but he justdidn't have time to hunt with us
kids.
And my older brother didn't likehunting like I did.
And I'd go fishing by myself,I'd go hunting by myself.
And if I could get my brother ina position where I'd get him
(19:07):
down and put his arm behind him,I would.
But when I let him go, he'd kickthe crap out of me.
I'd go back and do it the nexttime I got, and I'm still that
way.
I can remember my brother get medown and make me promise I
wouldn't fight him.
And he'd let me go and he'd getup and walk off, and I'd jump up
and act like I was a hound dogtrying to bite him.
I'd ride on top of him again.
(19:27):
But I'm I I'm kind of a dictat.
I played football and basketballand baseball in school, and I
ran in track in school and ingrade school.
We didn't have track until Isenior year, and I was too busy
playing football and basketballand baseball to play track, but
didn't because I wanted to.
So I've kind of been an outdoorperson, athlete, and tried to
(19:52):
become a really good artist.
I shot so many tournaments, 3Dtournaments.
In fact, you want to know thetruth?
I shot in the very first 3Dtournament they ever had in the
state of Washington.
I shot on the very first 3Dtargets it as ever made.
They were made in this state bya guy named, oh my, why would
guy ask me that?
Well, anyway, it was he heworked for tax Jonas Taxidermas
(20:14):
in Seattle, and he got the moldsand brought them home and to his
home and made a bunch of rubberdeer and elk and moose targets
and stuff, and then he rentedthem out to Vancouver Archery
Club.
And I went up there and shot thevery first 3D tournament, those
targets ever been shot on, andnobody had ever had a 3D
(20:37):
tournament for that.
Now, Vancouver had built somecardboard targets that and where
they were three or four inchesthick where they had layered the
cardboard together.
And they even had a caveman thatwas probably 15 feet tall that
they had made.
And so as far as a flatcardboard, yeah, they had those
(20:58):
two, the only club in the statethat had them.
And then we started shootingthose 3D targets in there, and
it just started taking off.
Other clubs got that guy tobring his targets over, and then
they started getting the moldsand making their own targets,
and that was in the state ofWashington.
I don't know what they had inCalifornia at the time, but I
have gone down to California andshot twice in the world team
(21:20):
championships down there inFresno, California, and now it's
Reading.
Fresno don't have that.
Reading kind of took it over,and I never did go to Reading
and shoot, but I've shot, Daveknows, I've shot with Dave in
lots of tournaments.
And I don't like to shoot 3D ifyou really want to know the
truth.
If I have a preference, I wouldshoot a bullseye target.
(21:43):
One I started out when I startedArchery, they didn't have 3D
targets.
They'd have a piece of paper upthere and you'd shoot a dit with
an NFAA target, but it wasn't awasn't a 3T target.
And then they years later, fouror five or six years later, I
can't remember when Vancouvercame out with it, and other
clubs develop a way to have 3Dsby renting them.
(22:06):
So I I went all over shootingtournaments every weekend for
all during the summer and springwhen you get out.
And uh that's about the time Ilost my first wife.
Pretty soon they startedshooting 3D targets solely, all
over.
You can't go to a a bullseyetarget now, and they're the
(22:26):
people just don't make money intheir club when they have a
bullseye target or a field face,you might say.
They have to be 3Ds.
That's because the only guysthat'll go to tournaments are
the ones shooting 3D, they don'twant to shoot bullseye targets.
I started out shooting fieldfaces.
Uh-huh.
I'd rather shoot a field facetournament than I would a 3D
face because when you shoot at abullseye target or a field face,
(22:50):
you shoot four arrows eachposition.
You have to be a better shot toshoot and hit good scores at a
field target than you do ananimal target.
Over the years, I haven'tpracticed for 3D targets.
I have been almost strictly abullseye shooter, but I go to
the 3D tournaments becausethere's nothing else to go to.
(23:11):
And I I've never had to practiceto be happy with the way I'm
shooting when I go to a 3Dtournament.
Now, I could have said to be awinner of the best score at them
3D tournaments or something likethat, but I wasn't concerning on
beating everybody else.
I was concerned about getting ascore I wanted to.
(23:33):
And if I didn't shoot the bestscore of the tournament, that
wasn't important.
Because I had my standards, Istill have my standards, what I
think I can shoot.
And if I can shoot above themstandards, or at least equal to
them when I go to a tournament,whether it's a bullseye
tournament or 3D tournament, I'mhappy.
Dave and I have shot enoughtournaments, indoor, outdoor,
(23:56):
that he understands that.
He understands how I am.
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
And I'd say a lot of that's rubbed off on Dave and
how he's approached, just withdoing the hunting because it's
not that competitiveness withothers, competitiveness with
yourself, and wanting to improvewhat how you're doing.
And that's a lot of how Daveapproaches things.
He wants to he's not competing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Well, I'm tickled pink that that's the way he's
competing, because personally Ihave a feeling in me that that's
the only way to really become abetter archer is to compete with
yourself.
Because sure, you could go shootagainst Levi Morgan, and if you
(24:40):
were really really good thatday, you might be able to come
within 50 or 70 points ofshooting good, shooting,
overshooting him.
But I can I've gone to Iremember one time I went to a
tournament in Olympia, and itwas a state champion, and I'd
shot against everybody in ourclass.
(25:03):
There was about 50 people in myclass, and we were 3D, we were
bare bow shooters, three fingersunder or one above, two below,
corners of mouth, or whatever.
And when it was over, my son andI were walking back to the
truck, and a guy I had knew andhave shot in the same tournament
(25:25):
with him over a period of yearsasked me what I shot, and I
can't remember what I said.
He said, Well, that's prettygood.
He said, You're about 15 pointsabove everybody else.
And I to toot my horn, I said,Well, I guess it's good, but
there's nobody here to competewith me because I've beat
everybody here every time I'veshot against them in the last
(25:45):
few years.
But it doesn't mean that I'mbetter than for one to be uh a
good shooter, and Daveunderstands this because we kind
of taught each other a fewthings about this.
We shot in a tournament onetime, and and uh when it was
over, Dave said something aboutthe score, and I said, Well, if
(26:08):
you want to know how what Ithink about it, come down to the
archery range in town and I'llshoot with you.
But we'll shoot indoors, we'regonna shoot with bullseye
targets, we're not gonna shootwith 3D targets.
And so we did.
And but he had never had thatmuch experience except with me
(26:29):
and a few other guys and stuffthat he went out on his own
shooting tournaments when Iwasn't there.
SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
And I don't know if anybody this was the beginning
of a very long group therapythat I had to attend after this.
He was in my rig cryingafterwards.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't make you make you cry.
He says, Okay, I'll meet youthere.
So we went down to Bob'ssporting goods in Longview and
shot during the week sometimejust him and iron.
And he shot a 265 on an indoorbullseye target, and I shot at
290 or 292, something like that.
And that was pretty close to mybest.
(27:09):
And he says, I beat you in the3D tournament, and he says, How
did you beat me in thistournament this morning?
I said, Well, Dave, it's justthe way you look at it.
A 3D target, you have a spotabout a foot or bigger every
time you shoot at a 3D animal.
On a bullseye target, you got atarget about from an inch to two
(27:30):
inches, and you gotta put fourarrows in that target to be to
shoot good score.
On a three, you got one.
And you got a bigger bullseye,even though you're guessing the
distance most of the time, butit's easier to hit a good score
on a 3D than it is a bullseyetarget.
(27:51):
Because you got to shoot fourarrows in a good area, and
you're gonna get one in abullseye target, uh in an animal
target.
And so it wasn't long.
Dave was shooting perfectscores, 300s indoors, because
that's the kind of a guy he is.
If he thinks he should beshooting or doing something
(28:14):
better than he is, but he findsout he isn't that good, he goes
out and works until he canbecome that good.
And that's what he did.
He went out and shot andpracticed and he learned how to
shoot better form, betterfollow-through, better release
with his hand or trigger,whatever he was shooting,
(28:35):
fingers.
And pretty soon he was at thatcategory he wanted to be.
And that's one of the nicethings that that I think Dave
deserves a lot of respect for.
Most guys wouldn't do that theway he did it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
I would say the smoke.
I attribute that to you.
Having so the way we kind ofmet, you had some electrical
work that, and I may be tellingon myself here, so hopefully
there's no electrical inspectorslistening.
But you had some electricalwork.
I was gonna do a job for you,and we ended up spending most of
our time while I was working, wejust kind of sat and talked.
(29:14):
And something you said to methat day has stuck with me ever
since.
And I'm gonna say it, and it'sgonna make total sense to
everybody listening.
But it was like the light justcame on, and I started thinking
about things uh in our archeryclub.
But what you said to me was,Dave, if you want to get good at
(29:35):
something, then you need to talkto somebody who's already good
at it.
That's who you need to belistening to.
Hunting wise, you and I bothknow, uh and Aaron, you know it
as well.
There's a lot of egos out there,and everybody wants to come
across as I've got the biggestbuck or the biggest bull or the
most or whatever.
And so there's a lot of puffingof the chest and whatnot.
(29:57):
But the guy that brings thereceipts.
The guy that you know has, Imean, I walk into your house,
Smoke, and it's like a tributeto record book animals.
I mean, they're just all over.
So when you say something, Itell guys all the time, if
Smokey's talking to you and hesaid, you better be listening
because the guy brings thereceipts.
(30:19):
And I gleaned that from you thatday, and I was so pumped to
spend the afternoon with you.
That I come home to my wife, andI just I was all sky, and I was
just telling her, Yeah, we spentall day we talked about this and
this and this, and he oh, it'sso cool and everything.
And that kind of started.
I knew of you before that, butthat kind of started our
(30:40):
friendship.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
I mean, it was after you started uh as an
electrician.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
Yeah, so boy, it must have been early 2000s.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Would you say, Smoke?
Oh, could have very well beenthat.
Yeah, I would say uh yeah, welleven before that, because I'd
say closer to the 90, because Istarted sh shooting a release
about that same time.
SPEAKER_03 (31:07):
Oh, did you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Yeah.
I remember you shooting fingers.
I remember you shooting fingers,but it wasn't much longer before
I started shooting a release, atrigger release.
And then it hasn't been thatlong since I started shooting a
thumb release and shooting atlike back tension.
SPEAKER_03 (31:22):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
So I went through three phases of archery
tournament shooting and practicethat every time I went into a
different phase, it was likeopening a different world to me
in archery because I got betterat the shooting of targets, I
got more higher scores.
(31:44):
I enjoyed doing the shootingbetter because I felt that it
was doing it correct better eachtime I changing from fingers to
uh trigger release to a backtension release.
Every time I did it, I waslearning how to shoot better
form, better follow through.
And the release of the arrowwhen I pulled a trigger or I
(32:08):
pulled the back tension backthrough until it went off just
amazed me.
And it still amazes me about howgood it feels to shoot without
having that apprehension ofjerking or twitching or pulling
my hand away from my face orsomething.
I shot better form, betterfollow-through, and I felt
(32:28):
better about the way I shootwhen I went into a different
phase.
A lot of people never learnedthat, I guess.
But actually, when I startedshooting, you go to a tournament
and there was 50 to 70 percentof them were through finger
shooters.
And then as a time went on, theyhad better trigger shooters, and
(32:50):
then Stanis Strawski came outwith his back tension release,
and it exploded at about thesame time he came out with his
back tension release.
I used to shoot with guys thatcould shoot 300s with their
fingers indoors.
How frustrating is that when youcan't do it.
We had guys in the 70s and 80sthat were finger shooters that
(33:13):
shot so good.
I mean, they held world records.
I got to shoot with a lot ofworld champions and state
champions.
In fact, all the tournaments Iwent to here in Washington,
there was some kind of a statechampion or some kind of a
winner for years.
Then I went down to Fresno,California with a couple of my
(33:34):
friends and shot in the Fresnoshooting.
Then I ran into the worldchampions that were one of the
first nationals I shot throughin Darrington was the world
champions, not the nationalchampion.
They had people from all overEngland and all over the world,
and after the shooting,everybody'd be out to practice
range shooting, and sometimesyou'd be over there helping a
(33:55):
guy from England, or he'd comeover and ask you how to how you
shoot the way you do it, or youuse two fingers, three fingers,
or whatever.
And so I I kind of feel myselflucky that I got to run into
some of them people that broughtour tree to where it's at right
now.
I meet guys like perfect 300shooters quite often.
(34:20):
I don't get to go to tournamentsanymore because I can't walk
around the ranges, but if I goto a 3D range, I talk to guys
that are shooting 299s, 300s.
One of the big things with thoseguys are they know they can
shoot 300s or 299s, so they'retrying to shoot instead of
shooting 15xs or trying to shoot27 or 28x's in a in a 30-round
(34:44):
target.
If you rub elbows with thempeople long enough or anything
any enough, you're finally goingto get caught up in some of
that.
Yeah.
And learn from them.
And sometimes they evenhumiliate you by coming over and
asking you how you did.
I've won a lot of national statechampionships.
(35:04):
I remember when I went and shotin three national championships
in Darrington.
I shot in the world teamchampionships twice in
Sacramento, but there were 3Dtournaments in a red, like
Reading format.
I ran into them guys when youwere shooting in Reading,
Darrington for the Nationals, orif you were in Reading shooting
for the World TeamChampionships, there was a lot
(35:26):
of them guys you could rubelbows with.
And I remember first one time, Ithink it was the second time I
was down to Reading, the firsttarget of the course, I was on
about 10 or 15 on a coursetarget, and that was where I
began that day.
And there was a 60-yard tigerdown there, paper target,
(35:47):
because that's what they wereusing at the time.
And there was 15 guys on mytarget, and that and me, 16
otherwise.
And there were two men to ateam.
Only one who wasn't a world or anational champion was myself.
So I started out shooting with15 national and world champions
(36:07):
that day, and it's little old mefrom Longview.
And believe it or not, I seensomething I'll never forget.
I seen all, and this was a60-yard target at a tiger.
That's a size four target innational class.
These guys are national worldchampions, every one of them.
(36:29):
And I every one of them missed atiger, their first shot.
I couldn't believe it.
I've never seen like that since.
Why?
I don't have no idea.
But I seen Ben Rogers and allthe guys, and Ben Rogers, I
don't know how many times he wasa national bare bow shooter, and
he missed it, and he was on therange with us.
(36:50):
And I got up there and I said,Well, I know damn good and well
I can hit that because I don'tmiss it at home, and I missed
it.
So all 16 of us.
And then after that, there was,well, I don't, there was guys
that never missed a target.
I guess it was just, I guess it,I guess you could just say it
was tension or something.
A little bit of nerves.
(37:11):
I seen Ben Rogers go somewhereon that tournament.
What like about it was about a30-yard target.
Shot four arrows, and he walkedback behind the guys who were
shooting and was standing there,and one of them walked up to
him.
He says, I'm sorry to tell you,Ben.
You didn't get a score on that.
He says, Why do you mean?
(37:32):
He says, Because you shot at thewrong target.
You had certain targets that youright or left or upper head.
And he thought, I'll justtighten up and shoot better.
And he won a tournament.
I mean, give me a break.
That's funny.
I've seen Archery grow frombullseye targets to whatever it
is now.
I actually don't like thedifferent kinds of tournaments
(37:57):
you see.
And I'm not knocking Levi orMorgan or any of those guys that
are shooting ASA and ABC and DABand all that other type of
tournament classes.
Because when you went to atournament when I was growing up
shooting a tournament, you hadblackface targets, which is the
(38:17):
same as a field target, but itjust had a solid black face but
a white spot on it.
But had the same scoring range,you just couldn't see them until
you got up to the target.
And it had field targets.
And then you had paper animaltargets on the last day.
That was at the Nationals.
So now you don't know you'regoing to be shooting at animal
(38:42):
targets, rubber ones or paperones.
And so when I watch thosetournaments, I watch to see how
because they do run a camerasright up to the guy's face and
the bow.
And they'll have him in itencapsulating him in every
picture in a movie.
(39:03):
And I watch how that guy draws abow, how he sets his chin up
next to the string and lines hiseye up with a peep if they got a
peep.
Sometimes you bare bow don't.
(39:32):
And there is a couple young guysthat's coming up now that have
beat people.
Bo Turner, right here, VodieTurner, right here in
Washington, is one of the bestshooters in the world.
And he's only about 20 or 22years old now.
And he was 15 or 16 when he wonVegas and beat all the top
shooters.
But I watched the form and thefollow-through and the the way
(39:55):
they execute their shot.
And as far as I'm concerned, ifyou don't execute a shot, I can
see what you're doing wrong.
I almost always, if they miss abullseye, I can tell you whether
they flinched and why theyflinched, or if they jerked the
trigger, if they didn't pulltheir elbow back and follow
(40:16):
through right, I see that.
Because that's what I'm lookingfor.
It's not as important to seethem hit the bullseye as it is
to see them make a wholeprocess.
But when you go to a tournamentor shoot indoors in our own
little shoot, and I used to goup there almost every weekend
(40:37):
when I wasn't shooting, I stillsat there and watched the guys.
If they asked for help, I'd helpthem.
And then there were sometimesguys that shot better than I did
would ask for help.
I said, Hell, I can't help you.
You shoot better than I do.
So you know, a lot of peopledon't think about them things.
Right, yeah, right.
A lot of people because if theythought about what I had said as
an answer and evaluate it, theywould probably some a percentage
(41:04):
of them would realize what I wasgetting to and understand.
But Dave knows this very wellthat 50% or 60% of the guys in
there have no clue.
They fling arrows, they and theyask for help, and they'll work
(41:27):
hard right there that day, butthey go out and shoot three or
four times more at Bob's duringthe week before they come back,
shoot with a group.
When they get back, everything'sgone in one air and out the
other.
SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
See, that's I would say that's that's one thing I
learned from you, Smoke, thathitting the bullseye is not
necessarily the sign of a goodshot.
The sign of a good shot isshooting with good form,
regardless of where the arrowhits.
SPEAKER_00 (41:53):
And that includes follow-through.
Yep.
And if you have excellentfollow-through, excellent form,
you're going to be a good shot.
Because practice formfollow-through is what makes
Levi Morgan, Dan McCarthy, andall of them guys.
SPEAKER_03 (42:10):
It's 100% repeatable.
SPEAKER_00 (42:11):
Yeah.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've heard them say that
in a podcast.
I'm going to get him on podcastsor walk up to him in a shoot and
say, What are you going to dohere?
Well, I'm going to shoot bestform I can and try to do the
shot the way it's supposed to bedone.
(42:32):
And then I'll have a chance.
I remember one time we had ashoot at Portland and it was a
pop-up target shooter.
And Jim Jones was a kid named.
He was a kid that I'd shot witha few times in the tournament,
and he wanted really to bewinner.
He wanted to be a real goodwinner.
(42:52):
And I'd watched a show a fewweeks before the show at
Portland and asked TimStrickland how he won the indoor
nationals at Vegas.
And he says, strictly foremanfollow-through.
He said, every time I'd go up toI'd say, now shoot foreman,
(43:12):
follow-through.
Shoot foreman follow-through.
He said, I'd tell my they everyshot.
And he says, I did win and I didhit the targets, but because I
couldn't get my head off ofshoot form and follow-through,
because I know that's what makesyou a winner.
And if you haven't got that, youaren't going to win.
And I remember when Jones got upon the stand and started
(43:32):
shooting them pop-up targets.
He asked me for help and I said,Well, if only thing I can help
you with, I said, every shot youtake, remember follow-through.
If you're not shooting good,follow-through.
I said, shoot good form andfollow through.
He won that tournament.
And it was a free hunt somewherefor a one-week hunt, someplace
in Oregon, is what the prize wasfor winning.
(43:53):
But he came down to meafterward.
I felt really good about it andthanked me.
And I said, no, you just, youjust remember it's not me.
You were doing the shooting, andyou did shoot good form, and you
did shot good follow-through.
And so you weren't jerking yourshot.
You were releasing it andgetting away from it like you
should have.
(44:14):
Just remember that.
That's what you I've alwaystried to help people.
I can remember being at theNationals with a guy that is one
of the top shooters in theUnited States when it comes to
shooting animals.
He's killed every manual inNorth America, big game
category, twice.
Once with a compound and oncewith a recurve.
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
He's written books that cost$500 to buy his book.
And he also has a book that heputs out paperback, charges you
$150 or$200 for.
I can't remember.
And I shot with him in theNationals back there in 1985, I
think it was.
Worst shot I ever seen in mylife.
(44:56):
And he had asked me all day, hesays, How do you shoot like
that, Smoke?
So I'd show him how I anchor,how I got my fingers on his
string and everything else.
And the next target we go up, hesays, How did you do that?
And then we did that for all daylong.
I was so mad at him.
By the time I got done shootingthat day, I was hoping nobody'd
ever tell me where he was therest of the week and shooting.
(45:17):
And I still know the guy, and hestill can't hate himself.
But his point of aim is so lowon his, his aim on anchor is so
low on his point of mate outthere is 107 yards at the point
of his arrow where he pulls itat 108 yards.
Well, you had to shoot prettydamn good form follow-through,
shoot 108, 100 some yard shot.
And then he's one of the topkillers, you might say, hunters
(45:41):
in North America.
And I don't want to say his namebecause I don't, I might get
sued.
But as far as I'm concerned,he's probably the worst shot
I've ever seen in my life.
But he pins poo money to go allover the world to hunt.
And he's had some sterlingincidents when he's hunting.
Animals charge him and polarbears, grizzy bears, brown
(46:05):
bears.
But he can't hit himself.
He killed a sh dull sheep, spentsix hours crawling up to it, and
shot it at eight yards.
Oh my goodness.
Because he could have taken theshot earlier, but he couldn't
hit.
Damn thing, he knew it too.
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
Thanks for joining us for the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
This is part one of three withSmokey Cruz.
See you next week.
Thanks for joining us for the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
This is part one of three withSmokey Cruz.
See you next week.
Welcome back to the Black TaleCoach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
So today, as we've mentionedbefore, we have Smokey Cruise
on, and there's going to be alot of good stories and a lot of
great advice.
And we're really looking forwardto this.
(00:22):
I know a lot of the listeners,just from the comments you've
left on the podcast, a lot ofguys are really looking forward
to this.
So thank you for coming, talkingwith us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Absolutely, Smoke.
Thank you.
No problem.
I want to, I know I speak formyself and my family, a lot of
people that you've taughtthroughout the years.
You've not only been a mentorhunting, but I know for my
family, we consider you an a netfamily, and we love you guys,
and I'm so happy that we're ableto do this interview.
(00:54):
This is truly a blessing for me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Well, anything I can do to help you, just let me
know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Okay, so let's get things kicked off here.
How did you get started inhunting?
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Is this like a family, like you learn from your
dad or my dad worked all weeklong in the woods in a camp and
he'd come home on weekends.
Uh-huh.
Never had time to take mehunting.
I had an older brother, fouryears older than mine, and he'd
hunt ducks or something once ina while, but he wasn't really
into hunting.
And I started thinking atsquirrels and stuff when I was
(01:26):
seven years old with a 22.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Over the year, I never had anybody to take me.
And then I went into service andI come home a few years later,
and first thing I had a friendthat wanted to take me out elk
hunting, and I shot a fork andhorned bull the first day, and I
didn't even know what end of thearrow I was shooting at him.
And that would get anybodygoing.
That guy I was hunting with, andhim and I would hunt every
(01:51):
weekend and elk season, andeverything came along that was
close at home.
Mostly we lived in Central andwe'd drive a hundred miles to go
hunt elk because there was noelk where I was.
Oh.
And in the Centralia area, therewas no elk at that time?
No.
Oh, really?
Well, they might have been downtoward PL or something.
Uh-huh.
(02:11):
And there was no elk there.
I think they seen three or fourelk that had come from way over
on a far side, the north side ofthe Capitol Forest.
Some farmer lived in a vicinityI did seen three bulls in his
yard one spring, and that's theonly time they ever seen elk
there.
Really?
So I never really had access toelk or anything.
(02:33):
And never had my dad was goneall the time, and he wanted to
be at home and doing choresaround the house and with mom,
and I had three brothers, sothere was all kinds of strings
pulling on him.
I just hunted by myself.
I went everywhere I could bymyself.
I'd go up in the woods, spendthree or four or five hours
walking up in the hills and comehome.
(02:53):
And the next day I might go geta shotgun to go with ducks on a
river a couple hundred yardsfrom where we lived.
Well, I never really had anybodyteach me anything about hunting.
Believe it or not, I had an olddouble-barrel Damascus twisted
12-gauge shotgun that was madein the 1910 or 12 or something
(03:16):
like that.
That's what I hunted with, and Icouldn't use high-powered
shotgun shells because we didn'tknow if the shotgun would hold
together.
And it had the great big hugehammers on.
You had to pull both hands onit, just about to pull them
back.
And sometimes I had to pull theright, shoot the right barrel
first because I shot the leftbarrel, but both of them would
go off at the same time.
(03:38):
So I just I just went myneighbors didn't care if I
hunted around or behind theirhouses and any yard, fields
behind their places or up on ahill.
Or I never caused them noproblem.
I never went in their yard orshot up anything.
And so mom and dad just let merun.
I mean, I was six, seven yearsold when I got 22 to go hunting
(04:00):
squirrels and or whatever I raninto, a grouse or a or a skunk
or anything in the woods.
I was and I'd get home when Igot home.
Mom, and it was the same withfishing.
There was a river just a couplehundred yards from the house,
and I'd go down there fishing.
I'd dig worms in a field myuncle owned and fish all day,
and mom wouldn't worry about it.
(04:21):
She knew I was going to comehome wet to the bone and uh half
the time barefooted, butsometimes I'd have a little
trout and sometimes I wouldn't,but they never worried about me
where I went or what I did.
And I just kind of grew up thathunting was all right and that I
wanted to hunt as much as Icould.
And I hunted during rifle seasonfor deer.
(04:43):
I remember one time I took a bowout and hunted it.
My brother had bought to use,and I snuck it out of the house,
went hunting deer with a coupletimes, got myself beat up for
it.
For some reason, my brotherthought I ought to ask.
Yeah.
And then I went in the militaryand I come home and went with
(05:03):
that friend of mine from he wasfrom Shahalas, and I was from
Rochester, it's about 15 milesout of Centre area.
We just started hunting up theretogether, and it was a bow and
arrow season that we hunted.
It was called the late archeryseason in December.
And we hunted on the edges ofthe Olympic National Forest
Park.
And there were signs all overthe trees saying park boundary,
(05:27):
park boundary.
So we just walked that parkboundary, and there were just
loads of oh, I mean, youcouldn't go up there without
running into elk sometime oranother during the day if you
walked along that boundary, oreven if you strayed from it,
went out into area you weresupposed to be, you'd run into
elk.
We're talking 1962, okay, 1963and four.
(05:52):
It's a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
Two or three.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
I remember when I bought a Ben Pearson bow,
recurved bow.
The curve was on the end of thelimb, about three inches long.
Otherwise, it was a straightlimb bow, except for that little
curl on each end.
It was a 50-pound, cost me 23bucks.
Fiberglass arrows had come inout about that time, and I I
(06:19):
went in a Yardbird's there inCentre between the two cities,
Centrea and Chehalas, twincities, and I bought a dozen
fiberglass arrows.
And that was about the same timethey were coming out and getting
popular, so I bought fiberglass.
It had high precisionthree-bladed broadheads on the
arrows already glued up andeverything.
(06:40):
And I had to walk about a half amile across the fields there
where I lived to get to myneighbor's place and ask him if
I could borrow Bale A to shootat for practice.
SPEAKER_03 (06:51):
And you had to pack that hay all the way back.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
And uh he was an older man, him and his wife, and
they were from Sweden, talkedreal broken English.
But their son went to schoolwith my son, my brother, my
older brother, and uh graduatedtogether out of high school.
So they were like most peopleare when they know their
neighbors, or kid wants to shoota bale, hey, they'll do it.
(07:18):
That's what happened.
I can't remember exactly, but itwas within the next year that
there was a club in Centralia,Archery Club, and they had a
couple of guys that would go tothe fairgrounds and shoot
indoors in a winter.
I don't know how they swung itbecause it was a county
fairground, and they were just acouple of private citizens, but
(07:41):
they must have known somebody.
It's been so long I don'tremember.
But we'd go to get together likeevery Wednesday night and go
into one of them big fairgroundbuildings and set up a couple of
bales and shoot our bows andarrow.
And they did a little tournamentshooting.
At that time, I never knewanything about tournaments.
I was 21 or 22 then.
And uh I had just got marriedand had a little boy, and so
(08:06):
that's how I got startedshooting a bow and arrow was
with that guy I ran into, whenwe go elk hunting with him, was
real friendly and stuff.
We went elk hunting, we droveclean to Olympics, was 75 or 100
miles one way, and we'd drive upthere and hunt, and sometimes
we'd find a motel room for thenight, and sometimes we
wouldn't, and sometimes we'ddrive home.
(08:28):
But it was rare that we didn'tgo up there and get into herds
of elk.
If I had a chance to hunt elkthen, like I do now, I would
hold world records.
I can remember the first day Iwent elk hunting, I did shoot a
fork at hornbill.
The next year I went huntingbecause I had an elk.
So the next year I went hunting,the first day that second year,
(08:51):
I missed a seven-point bull elkat 20 yards three times.
I missed a six-point bull a fewminutes later at 15 yards.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
And beginner's luck.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
I mean, the elk were thick.
I mean, the first the first timeI went up that year into
hunting, I walked up this roadwhere we parked the car because
you couldn't go no farther.
It was washed out.
And I walked up past that abouta half a mile and they came into
being an old clear cut.
It was just below a mountaincalled Mount Matheny Ridge.
And it was up at the very end ofCanoe Creek Road.
(09:24):
And at the end of that road, youcould look right up in the air,
quite a few thousand feet, seethe top of Mount Matheny.
And there was it was a clearcut, probably a couple hundred
acre clear-cut, but it had butthe jack fur in it was thick,
and they were probably 15 feethigh, and it was raining like a
(09:44):
like you're in a shower.
And I walked around a corner onthe end of the road, there was a
herd of elk all over all aroundthe end of it.
I mean, you could hear thembarking and beeping and bugling
and everything all around theend of the road.
Three of them were up on thehill, and I think at the time
the world record was like a 260or something like that, 280.
(10:09):
Wasn't what you call a monsternow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
But there were three of them there.
All three of them would havebroke the world record at the
time.
And I decided to go down thehill because I didn't want to
walk up the hill through allthat jack fur and get soaking
wet.
And I walked down the hill andI'd hadn't gone 20 yards off the
end of the road, and a wholebunch of elk ran by, and I took
a shot at a cow and hit her inthe back, in the back of the
front leg, and it was underneathher armpit, and it finally cut
(10:35):
enough that we found her down atthe bottom.
Of course it was down at thebottom.
And then she crossed MartiniCreek and died just on the other
side, and it was a Chinook windcome up, and uh it was a foot or
a foot and a half of snow.
And by the time we could gutthat cow out and drag her to the
(10:55):
creek was raging, probablyinstead of halfway to your knee,
it was halfway to your waist,top of your waist, and it was
roaring down through there likea flood coming from Mount
Masudas or something.
It was a horrible day, ahorrible flooded crick.
So what we did is I had to scootacross on a log that was clean
(11:18):
across the crick, right aboutwhere the cow would land.
I scooted across there, set downa log and scooted inches of a
time across that log, and thengot off on the other side and
butchered the cow out and putthe stuff on my backpack and
skiddied back across the crick.
I had to do that because therewas no way you couldn't get in a
crick.
Oh yeah.
(11:38):
You couldn't get in a crick.
Well we got the cow out.
And there turned out to be twoor three guys from Centre before
it was over the years that Ihunted with that hunted that
same area.
It was a good area.
Every day we went up there,somebody got into the elk
anyway.
I don't never remember gettinganything unusual for the area.
(12:04):
I mean, it what was nowadays, ifyou'd have hunted, if I'd have
hunted that nowadays, I'd havehad a dozen record book bulls
and six points and stuff.
There was just elk everywhere.
But we're hunting the border ofthe Olympic National Park.
We only had to go walk a couplehundred yards through the timber
to get to the boundary line, andall the trees on the boundary
(12:27):
line, every tree that was on theboundary had a big yellow sign
that says Olympic National Park.
So you could follow them up ordown or hunt between it and the
road where we drove in on, or soyou couldn't hunt in the park.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
Oh no, nobody.
Oh, you still can't.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
No.
It was the Olympic NationalPark.
Yeah.
And which is part of the Olympicmountain range.
Yeah.
But there was lots, there waslots of elk there.
And I shot a deer there onetime, and I couldn't find her.
And it had run about 40 yardsafter I shot it.
It was bounding, and I wasfalling in the track of the
(13:05):
snow, because of about a foot ofsnow.
And then pretty soon there wasno tracks.
I couldn't figure out whathappened is she jumped, fell in
a hole, and died in that hole.
And then walked right by it andnever figured out before dark.
And it was just before dark thatshe'd win that hole.
So the two of us went back thenext day.
I was hunting with a guy andwalked right up there and looked
(13:26):
down.
Oh, there she is, because enoughdaylight you could see.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
So were you uh archery hunting from the start?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yes.
When I got out of the military,I did.
I shot a couple of elk with arifle.
Okay.
I think even after I got out ofthe military, I hunted a couple
times with a rifle because thesame guy I started archery
hunting one wanted me to gorifle hunting with him.
But I didn't prefer it.
And I think after about twoyears, I haven't done anything
(13:54):
since.
I okay.
When I was taking bear huntersout and stuff, if they want to
hunt with that, it's fine.
But my idea of hunting eversince there has been archery.
I mean, I don't care if a guyhunts with a gun.
I got rifles and pistols andstuff, but they're in a safe a
(14:14):
couple of them.
I haven't even shot and they'rebrand new.
And I've had them for five orsix years.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
Smoke, you are a very accomplished hunter.
You have multiple record bookanimals, not just elk and deer,
but you know, mountain goat,black bear, caribou.
You and Annette have doneeverything.
And you were Mr.
You're known as Mr.
Roosevelt in the record books.
(14:41):
So how did you go from that tonothing now?
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
At my age, I can't do nothing.
So how'd I get there?
I mean, just old age.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
Just because you were self-taught.
What do you attribute thatseparated you from everybody
else?
SPEAKER_04 (14:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
I think I was just a year or so after I was out of
the military and married mywife, and we had a kid on the
way.
I moved to Centre, startedworking for warehouse in a
plywood.
And they had a really activeclub here in town, and I wanted
to shoot my bow and arrow, and Iran into a couple guys that were
leaders in that club, you mightsay, and they did it.
(15:20):
And so I ran into them and theyinvited me to join the club, and
I did.
I'm kind of a if I get hooked onsomething like archery, I'm
hooked on it.
I don't try and look at riflehunting anymore.
I try and look at archery andfigure out how to hunt archery
and be successful.
(15:40):
I put way too much time in it asa husband and a worker to try
and make a living and be a goodfamily mind too, meaning that I
push my limits all the time withthe family and any spare time I
got.
It cost me two or three wives.
I'm on my third wife, and herand I have been married for 40,
(16:03):
about 43 years.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
You had to think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
Well, I got to say it was 82 and it's 25 now, so
it's 23 years.
Good at math.
That's the only thing I was goodin school is math.
I was good at getting my buttonbeat, and so on.
I'm the kind of a guy that if Ilike fishing, I like flying.
I started out fishing with gear,drift fishing, and I learned how
(16:29):
to do it.
Then I bought a bunch of fliesin Japan when I was in Japan in
the military and brought themhome.
And I think I paid 50 cents for50 flies.
Oh, yeah.
They were on a cardboard box,and I brought them home.
And I my wife and I moved backclose to where my father and mom
lived, maybe a mile or so fromthem.
And there was a little placecalled Black River out by
(16:50):
Rochester that ran by the house.
And I went out there one nightand threw a few flies out there.
And the first fly I tried was agray ghost streamer, and a fish
stole the fly, and I was mad.
I went back to the house and gotanother gray ghost, went back
there and cast it out again.
Another fish came by and stoleit.
And I think it hooked me.
(17:11):
And I never fly fished seriouslyfor several years after that.
In 2021, I wore my hips out, andthe doctor said I needed new
ones.
So while I was recuperating, ittook about seven months to get
them replaced.
I started fly fishing on theCalyx River, and I'm still fly
(17:31):
fishing on the Calyx River.
In fact, I built a fly or twojust minutes before I left the
house to come here.
And I'm very addicted.
I got about nine fly rods, Ithink, in the house and shop.
I've got probably three or fourhundred flies that I've built
over the years.
And some of them work, some ofthem don't.
(17:52):
And the ones that don't are theones I didn't catch a fish on.
The ones that do work is the oneI did catch a fish on.
So I'm addicted to that too.
Forty years ago, my wife and Igot married, and she's my third
wife, and she's just addicted tofly fishing and archery hunting
as I am.
Fortunately for me and for herboth, because I can't and don't
(18:15):
want to stop fly fishing.
I can't and don't want to stoparchery hunting.
Now I archery hunt, but uh I'm83 years old.
I got neuropathy of my feet.
I can't feel nothing from mylegs down.
I got a brace on each leg.
I've had two artificial hips,and I can tell you about 15
other operations I've had overthe years, and it starts at my
(18:38):
big toe and runs all the way tomy throat, and actually all the
way because I had my eyes lasertwice.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
So you're practically brand new.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Yeah, I'm just a couple of screws short of having
all new parts.
We can build it.
And I would have liked to have adad to hunt and fish with my dad
liked to hunt, but he justdidn't have time to hunt with us
kids.
And my older brother didn't likehunting like I did.
And I'd go fishing by myself,I'd go hunting by myself.
And if I could get my brother ina position where I'd get him
(19:07):
down and put his arm behind him,I would.
But when I let him go, he'd kickthe crap out of me.
I'd go back and do it the nexttime I got, and I'm still that
way.
I can remember my brother get medown and make me promise I
wouldn't fight him.
And he'd let me go and he'd getup and walk off, and I'd jump up
and act like I was a hound dogtrying to bite him.
I'd ride on top of him again.
(19:27):
But I'm I I'm kind of a dictat.
I played football and basketballand baseball in school, and I
ran in track in school and ingrade school.
We didn't have track until Isenior year, and I was too busy
playing football and basketballand baseball to play track, but
didn't because I wanted to.
So I've kind of been an outdoorperson, athlete, and tried to
(19:52):
become a really good artist.
I shot so many tournaments, 3Dtournaments.
In fact, you want to know thetruth?
I shot in the very first 3Dtournament they ever had in the
state of Washington.
I shot on the very first 3Dtargets it as ever made.
They were made in this state bya guy named, oh my, why would
guy ask me that?
Well, anyway, it was he heworked for tax Jonas Taxidermas
(20:14):
in Seattle, and he got the moldsand brought them home and to his
home and made a bunch of rubberdeer and elk and moose targets
and stuff, and then he rentedthem out to Vancouver Archery
Club.
And I went up there and shot thevery first 3D tournament, those
targets ever been shot on, andnobody had ever had a 3D
(20:37):
tournament for that.
Now, Vancouver had built somecardboard targets that and where
they were three or four inchesthick where they had layered the
cardboard together.
And they even had a caveman thatwas probably 15 feet tall that
they had made.
And so as far as a flatcardboard, yeah, they had those
(20:58):
two, the only club in the statethat had them.
And then we started shootingthose 3D targets in there, and
it just started taking off.
Other clubs got that guy tobring his targets over, and then
they started getting the moldsand making their own targets,
and that was in the state ofWashington.
I don't know what they had inCalifornia at the time, but I
have gone down to California andshot twice in the world team
(21:20):
championships down there inFresno, California, and now it's
Reading.
Fresno don't have that.
Reading kind of took it over,and I never did go to Reading
and shoot, but I've shot, Daveknows, I've shot with Dave in
lots of tournaments.
And I don't like to shoot 3D ifyou really want to know the
truth.
If I have a preference, I wouldshoot a bullseye target.
(21:43):
One I started out when I startedArchery, they didn't have 3D
targets.
They'd have a piece of paper upthere and you'd shoot a dit with
an NFAA target, but it wasn't awasn't a 3T target.
And then they years later, fouror five or six years later, I
can't remember when Vancouvercame out with it, and other
clubs develop a way to have 3Dsby renting them.
(22:06):
So I I went all over shootingtournaments every weekend for
all during the summer and springwhen you get out.
And uh that's about the time Ilost my first wife.
Pretty soon they startedshooting 3D targets solely, all
over.
You can't go to a a bullseyetarget now, and they're the
(22:26):
people just don't make money intheir club when they have a
bullseye target or a field face,you might say.
They have to be 3Ds.
That's because the only guysthat'll go to tournaments are
the ones shooting 3D, they don'twant to shoot bullseye targets.
I started out shooting fieldfaces.
Uh-huh.
I'd rather shoot a field facetournament than I would a 3D
face because when you shoot at abullseye target or a field face,
(22:50):
you shoot four arrows eachposition.
You have to be a better shot toshoot and hit good scores at a
field target than you do ananimal target.
Over the years, I haven'tpracticed for 3D targets.
I have been almost strictly abullseye shooter, but I go to
the 3D tournaments becausethere's nothing else to go to.
(23:11):
And I I've never had to practiceto be happy with the way I'm
shooting when I go to a 3Dtournament.
Now, I could have said to be awinner of the best score at them
3D tournaments or something likethat, but I wasn't concerning on
beating everybody else.
I was concerned about getting ascore I wanted to.
(23:33):
And if I didn't shoot the bestscore of the tournament, that
wasn't important.
Because I had my standards, Istill have my standards, what I
think I can shoot.
And if I can shoot above themstandards, or at least equal to
them when I go to a tournament,whether it's a bullseye
tournament or 3D tournament, I'mhappy.
Dave and I have shot enoughtournaments, indoor, outdoor,
(23:56):
that he understands that.
He understands how I am.
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
And I'd say a lot of that's rubbed off on Dave and
how he's approached, just withdoing the hunting because it's
not that competitiveness withothers, competitiveness with
yourself, and wanting to improvewhat how you're doing.
And that's a lot of how Daveapproaches things.
He wants to he's not competing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Well, I'm tickled pink that that's the way he's
competing, because personally Ihave a feeling in me that that's
the only way to really become abetter archer is to compete with
yourself.
Because sure, you could go shootagainst Levi Morgan, and if you
(24:40):
were really really good thatday, you might be able to come
within 50 or 70 points ofshooting good, shooting,
overshooting him.
But I can I've gone to Iremember one time I went to a
tournament in Olympia, and itwas a state champion, and I'd
shot against everybody in ourclass.
(25:03):
There was about 50 people in myclass, and we were 3D, we were
bare bow shooters, three fingersunder or one above, two below,
corners of mouth, or whatever.
And when it was over, my son andI were walking back to the
truck, and a guy I had knew andhave shot in the same tournament
(25:25):
with him over a period of yearsasked me what I shot, and I
can't remember what I said.
He said, Well, that's prettygood.
He said, You're about 15 pointsabove everybody else.
And I to toot my horn, I said,Well, I guess it's good, but
there's nobody here to competewith me because I've beat
everybody here every time I'veshot against them in the last
(25:45):
few years.
But it doesn't mean that I'mbetter than for one to be uh a
good shooter, and Daveunderstands this because we kind
of taught each other a fewthings about this.
We shot in a tournament onetime, and and uh when it was
over, Dave said something aboutthe score, and I said, Well, if
(26:08):
you want to know how what Ithink about it, come down to the
archery range in town and I'llshoot with you.
But we'll shoot indoors, we'regonna shoot with bullseye
targets, we're not gonna shootwith 3D targets.
And so we did.
And but he had never had thatmuch experience except with me
(26:29):
and a few other guys and stuffthat he went out on his own
shooting tournaments when Iwasn't there.
SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
And I don't know if anybody this was the beginning
of a very long group therapythat I had to attend after this.
He was in my rig cryingafterwards.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't make you make you cry.
He says, Okay, I'll meet youthere.
So we went down to Bob'ssporting goods in Longview and
shot during the week sometimejust him and iron.
And he shot a 265 on an indoorbullseye target, and I shot at
290 or 292, something like that.
And that was pretty close to mybest.
(27:09):
And he says, I beat you in the3D tournament, and he says, How
did you beat me in thistournament this morning?
I said, Well, Dave, it's justthe way you look at it.
A 3D target, you have a spotabout a foot or bigger every
time you shoot at a 3D animal.
On a bullseye target, you got atarget about from an inch to two
(27:30):
inches, and you gotta put fourarrows in that target to be to
shoot good score.
On a three, you got one.
And you got a bigger bullseye,even though you're guessing the
distance most of the time, butit's easier to hit a good score
on a 3D than it is a bullseyetarget.
(27:51):
Because you got to shoot fourarrows in a good area, and
you're gonna get one in abullseye target, uh in an animal
target.
And so it wasn't long.
Dave was shooting perfectscores, 300s indoors, because
that's the kind of a guy he is.
If he thinks he should beshooting or doing something
(28:14):
better than he is, but he findsout he isn't that good, he goes
out and works until he canbecome that good.
And that's what he did.
He went out and shot andpracticed and he learned how to
shoot better form, betterfollow-through, better release
with his hand or trigger,whatever he was shooting,
(28:35):
fingers.
And pretty soon he was at thatcategory he wanted to be.
And that's one of the nicethings that that I think Dave
deserves a lot of respect for.
Most guys wouldn't do that theway he did it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
I would say the smoke.
I attribute that to you.
Having so the way we kind ofmet, you had some electrical
work that, and I may be tellingon myself here, so hopefully
there's no electrical inspectorslistening.
But you had some electricalwork.
I was gonna do a job for you,and we ended up spending most of
our time while I was working, wejust kind of sat and talked.
(29:14):
And something you said to methat day has stuck with me ever
since.
And I'm gonna say it, and it'sgonna make total sense to
everybody listening.
But it was like the light justcame on, and I started thinking
about things uh in our archeryclub.
But what you said to me was,Dave, if you want to get good at
(29:35):
something, then you need to talkto somebody who's already good
at it.
That's who you need to belistening to.
Hunting wise, you and I bothknow, uh and Aaron, you know it
as well.
There's a lot of egos out there,and everybody wants to come
across as I've got the biggestbuck or the biggest bull or the
most or whatever.
And so there's a lot of puffingof the chest and whatnot.
(29:57):
But the guy that brings thereceipts.
The guy that you know has, Imean, I walk into your house,
Smoke, and it's like a tributeto record book animals.
I mean, they're just all over.
So when you say something, Itell guys all the time, if
Smokey's talking to you and hesaid, you better be listening
because the guy brings thereceipts.
(30:19):
And I gleaned that from you thatday, and I was so pumped to
spend the afternoon with you.
That I come home to my wife, andI just I was all sky, and I was
just telling her, Yeah, we spentall day we talked about this and
this and this, and he oh, it'sso cool and everything.
And that kind of started.
I knew of you before that, butthat kind of started our
(30:40):
friendship.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
I mean, it was after you started uh as an
electrician.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
Yeah, so boy, it must have been early 2000s.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Would you say, Smoke?
Oh, could have very well beenthat.
Yeah, I would say uh yeah, welleven before that, because I'd
say closer to the 90, because Istarted sh shooting a release
about that same time.
SPEAKER_03 (31:07):
Oh, did you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Yeah.
I remember you shooting fingers.
I remember you shooting fingers,but it wasn't much longer before
I started shooting a release, atrigger release.
And then it hasn't been thatlong since I started shooting a
thumb release and shooting atlike back tension.
SPEAKER_03 (31:22):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
So I went through three phases of archery
tournament shooting and practicethat every time I went into a
different phase, it was likeopening a different world to me
in archery because I got betterat the shooting of targets, I
got more higher scores.
(31:44):
I enjoyed doing the shootingbetter because I felt that it
was doing it correct better eachtime I changing from fingers to
uh trigger release to a backtension release.
Every time I did it, I waslearning how to shoot better
form, better follow through.
And the release of the arrowwhen I pulled a trigger or I
(32:08):
pulled the back tension backthrough until it went off just
amazed me.
And it still amazes me about howgood it feels to shoot without
having that apprehension ofjerking or twitching or pulling
my hand away from my face orsomething.
I shot better form, betterfollow-through, and I felt
(32:28):
better about the way I shootwhen I went into a different
phase.
A lot of people never learnedthat, I guess.
But actually, when I startedshooting, you go to a tournament
and there was 50 to 70 percentof them were through finger
shooters.
And then as a time went on, theyhad better trigger shooters, and
(32:50):
then Stanis Strawski came outwith his back tension release,
and it exploded at about thesame time he came out with his
back tension release.
I used to shoot with guys thatcould shoot 300s with their
fingers indoors.
How frustrating is that when youcan't do it.
We had guys in the 70s and 80sthat were finger shooters that
(33:13):
shot so good.
I mean, they held world records.
I got to shoot with a lot ofworld champions and state
champions.
In fact, all the tournaments Iwent to here in Washington,
there was some kind of a statechampion or some kind of a
winner for years.
Then I went down to Fresno,California with a couple of my
(33:34):
friends and shot in the Fresnoshooting.
Then I ran into the worldchampions that were one of the
first nationals I shot throughin Darrington was the world
champions, not the nationalchampion.
They had people from all overEngland and all over the world,
and after the shooting,everybody'd be out to practice
range shooting, and sometimesyou'd be over there helping a
(33:55):
guy from England, or he'd comeover and ask you how to how you
shoot the way you do it, or youuse two fingers, three fingers,
or whatever.
And so I I kind of feel myselflucky that I got to run into
some of them people that broughtour tree to where it's at right
now.
I meet guys like perfect 300shooters quite often.
(34:20):
I don't get to go to tournamentsanymore because I can't walk
around the ranges, but if I goto a 3D range, I talk to guys
that are shooting 299s, 300s.
One of the big things with thoseguys are they know they can
shoot 300s or 299s, so they'retrying to shoot instead of
shooting 15xs or trying to shoot27 or 28x's in a in a 30-round
(34:44):
target.
If you rub elbows with thempeople long enough or anything
any enough, you're finally goingto get caught up in some of
that.
Yeah.
And learn from them.
And sometimes they evenhumiliate you by coming over and
asking you how you did.
I've won a lot of national statechampionships.
(35:04):
I remember when I went and shotin three national championships
in Darrington.
I shot in the world teamchampionships twice in
Sacramento, but there were 3Dtournaments in a red, like
Reading format.
I ran into them guys when youwere shooting in Reading,
Darrington for the Nationals, orif you were in Reading shooting
for the World TeamChampionships, there was a lot
(35:26):
of them guys you could rubelbows with.
And I remember first one time, Ithink it was the second time I
was down to Reading, the firsttarget of the course, I was on
about 10 or 15 on a coursetarget, and that was where I
began that day.
And there was a 60-yard tigerdown there, paper target,
(35:47):
because that's what they wereusing at the time.
And there was 15 guys on mytarget, and that and me, 16
otherwise.
And there were two men to ateam.
Only one who wasn't a world or anational champion was myself.
So I started out shooting with15 national and world champions
(36:07):
that day, and it's little old mefrom Longview.
And believe it or not, I seensomething I'll never forget.
I seen all, and this was a60-yard target at a tiger.
That's a size four target innational class.
These guys are national worldchampions, every one of them.
(36:29):
And I every one of them missed atiger, their first shot.
I couldn't believe it.
I've never seen like that since.
Why?
I don't have no idea.
But I seen Ben Rogers and allthe guys, and Ben Rogers, I
don't know how many times he wasa national bare bow shooter, and
he missed it, and he was on therange with us.
(36:50):
And I got up there and I said,Well, I know damn good and well
I can hit that because I don'tmiss it at home, and I missed
it.
So all 16 of us.
And then after that, there was,well, I don't, there was guys
that never missed a target.
I guess it was just, I guess it,I guess you could just say it
was tension or something.
A little bit of nerves.
(37:11):
I seen Ben Rogers go somewhereon that tournament.
What like about it was about a30-yard target.
Shot four arrows, and he walkedback behind the guys who were
shooting and was standing there,and one of them walked up to
him.
He says, I'm sorry to tell you,Ben.
You didn't get a score on that.
He says, Why do you mean?
(37:32):
He says, Because you shot at thewrong target.
You had certain targets that youright or left or upper head.
And he thought, I'll justtighten up and shoot better.
And he won a tournament.
I mean, give me a break.
That's funny.
I've seen Archery grow frombullseye targets to whatever it
is now.
I actually don't like thedifferent kinds of tournaments
(37:57):
you see.
And I'm not knocking Levi orMorgan or any of those guys that
are shooting ASA and ABC and DABand all that other type of
tournament classes.
Because when you went to atournament when I was growing up
shooting a tournament, you hadblackface targets, which is the
(38:17):
same as a field target, but itjust had a solid black face but
a white spot on it.
But had the same scoring range,you just couldn't see them until
you got up to the target.
And it had field targets.
And then you had paper animaltargets on the last day.
That was at the Nationals.
So now you don't know you'regoing to be shooting at animal
(38:42):
targets, rubber ones or paperones.
And so when I watch thosetournaments, I watch to see how
because they do run a camerasright up to the guy's face and
the bow.
And they'll have him in itencapsulating him in every
picture in a movie.
(39:03):
And I watch how that guy draws abow, how he sets his chin up
next to the string and lines hiseye up with a peep if they got a
peep.
Sometimes you bare bow don't.
(39:32):
And there is a couple young guysthat's coming up now that have
beat people.
Bo Turner, right here, VodieTurner, right here in
Washington, is one of the bestshooters in the world.
And he's only about 20 or 22years old now.
And he was 15 or 16 when he wonVegas and beat all the top
shooters.
But I watched the form and thefollow-through and the the way
(39:55):
they execute their shot.
And as far as I'm concerned, ifyou don't execute a shot, I can
see what you're doing wrong.
I almost always, if they miss abullseye, I can tell you whether
they flinched and why theyflinched, or if they jerked the
trigger, if they didn't pulltheir elbow back and follow
(40:16):
through right, I see that.
Because that's what I'm lookingfor.
It's not as important to seethem hit the bullseye as it is
to see them make a wholeprocess.
But when you go to a tournamentor shoot indoors in our own
little shoot, and I used to goup there almost every weekend
(40:37):
when I wasn't shooting, I stillsat there and watched the guys.
If they asked for help, I'd helpthem.
And then there were sometimesguys that shot better than I did
would ask for help.
I said, Hell, I can't help you.
You shoot better than I do.
So you know, a lot of peopledon't think about them things.
Right, yeah, right.
A lot of people because if theythought about what I had said as
an answer and evaluate it, theywould probably some a percentage
(41:04):
of them would realize what I wasgetting to and understand.
But Dave knows this very wellthat 50% or 60% of the guys in
there have no clue.
They fling arrows, they and theyask for help, and they'll work
(41:27):
hard right there that day, butthey go out and shoot three or
four times more at Bob's duringthe week before they come back,
shoot with a group.
When they get back, everything'sgone in one air and out the
other.
SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
See, that's I would say that's that's one thing I
learned from you, Smoke, thathitting the bullseye is not
necessarily the sign of a goodshot.
The sign of a good shot isshooting with good form,
regardless of where the arrowhits.
SPEAKER_00 (41:53):
And that includes follow-through.
Yep.
And if you have excellentfollow-through, excellent form,
you're going to be a good shot.
Because practice formfollow-through is what makes
Levi Morgan, Dan McCarthy, andall of them guys.
SPEAKER_03 (42:10):
It's 100% repeatable.
SPEAKER_00 (42:11):
Yeah.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've heard them say that
in a podcast.
I'm going to get him on podcastsor walk up to him in a shoot and
say, What are you going to dohere?
Well, I'm going to shoot bestform I can and try to do the
shot the way it's supposed to bedone.
(42:32):
And then I'll have a chance.
I remember one time we had ashoot at Portland and it was a
pop-up target shooter.
And Jim Jones was a kid named.
He was a kid that I'd shot witha few times in the tournament,
and he wanted really to bewinner.
He wanted to be a real goodwinner.
(42:52):
And I'd watched a show a fewweeks before the show at
Portland and asked TimStrickland how he won the indoor
nationals at Vegas.
And he says, strictly foremanfollow-through.
He said, every time I'd go up toI'd say, now shoot foreman,
(43:12):
follow-through.
Shoot foreman follow-through.
He said, I'd tell my they everyshot.
And he says, I did win and I didhit the targets, but because I
couldn't get my head off ofshoot form and follow-through,
because I know that's what makesyou a winner.
And if you haven't got that, youaren't going to win.
And I remember when Jones got upon the stand and started
(43:32):
shooting them pop-up targets.
He asked me for help and I said,Well, if only thing I can help
you with, I said, every shot youtake, remember follow-through.
If you're not shooting good,follow-through.
I said, shoot good form andfollow through.
He won that tournament.
And it was a free hunt somewherefor a one-week hunt, someplace
in Oregon, is what the prize wasfor winning.
(43:53):
But he came down to meafterward.
I felt really good about it andthanked me.
And I said, no, you just, youjust remember it's not me.
You were doing the shooting, andyou did shoot good form, and you
did shot good follow-through.
And so you weren't jerking yourshot.
You were releasing it andgetting away from it like you
should have.
(44:14):
Just remember that.
That's what you I've alwaystried to help people.
I can remember being at theNationals with a guy that is one
of the top shooters in theUnited States when it comes to
shooting animals.
He's killed every manual inNorth America, big game
category, twice.
Once with a compound and oncewith a recurve.
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
He's written books that cost$500 to buy his book.
And he also has a book that heputs out paperback, charges you
$150 or$200 for.
I can't remember.
And I shot with him in theNationals back there in 1985, I
think it was.
Worst shot I ever seen in mylife.
(44:56):
And he had asked me all day, hesays, How do you shoot like
that, Smoke?
So I'd show him how I anchor,how I got my fingers on his
string and everything else.
And the next target we go up, hesays, How did you do that?
And then we did that for all daylong.
I was so mad at him.
By the time I got done shootingthat day, I was hoping nobody'd
ever tell me where he was therest of the week and shooting.
(45:17):
And I still know the guy, and hestill can't hate himself.
But his point of aim is so lowon his, his aim on anchor is so
low on his point of mate outthere is 107 yards at the point
of his arrow where he pulls itat 108 yards.
Well, you had to shoot prettydamn good form follow-through,
shoot 108, 100 some yard shot.
And then he's one of the topkillers, you might say, hunters
(45:41):
in North America.
And I don't want to say his namebecause I don't, I might get
sued.
But as far as I'm concerned,he's probably the worst shot
I've ever seen in my life.
But he pins poo money to go allover the world to hunt.
And he's had some sterlingincidents when he's hunting.
Animals charge him and polarbears, grizzy bears, brown
(46:05):
bears.
But he can't hit himself.
He killed a sh dull sheep, spentsix hours crawling up to it, and
shot it at eight yards.
Oh my goodness.
Because he could have taken theshot earlier, but he couldn't
hit.
Damn thing, he knew it too.
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
Thanks for joining us for the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
This is part one of three withSmokey Cruz.
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!