November 17, 2025 • 56 mins
A chocolate-antler blacktail at 20 yards on opening morning isn’t a fluke—it’s the outcome of a system built on habitat, scent discipline, and patient stand time. We sit down with Cully Scroggins to unpack how a summer-long pattern, a tight entry route, and a believable scent profile turned a thick patch of viny maple and ferns into a daylight magnet. If you’ve ever been told big bucks only move at night, this story will change your map—and your mindset.
We trace Cully’s path from glassing clear cuts to hunting the “right 20 yards,” where cover, wind, and micro terrain do most of the work. He explains why he skipped estrus, leaned on synthetic bedding cues, and treated scent control like gear, not a guess. The payoff wasn’t just photos; it was confidence. Does and fawns kept the area “alive,” the dominant buck shifted the whole mood when he arrived, and a calm draw behind a tree ended with a perfect heart shot and a short death run. Along the way, we pull in hard-won lessons from his college whitetail days—access, permission, and reading edges—and show how those skills translate directly to blacktail success.
We also zoom out to talk herd health, genetics, and policy. From minerals and protein (where legal) to identifying dominant lines like “Scarface” and “Mr. Krabs,” we dig into what actually grows better deer and steadier hunts. Whether you’re wrestling with camera failures, baiting bans, or just the myth of nocturnal movement, you’ll leave with a clear, repeatable plan: find real thick, set smart, enter clean, and let behavior tell you when to draw.
If this conversation helps you rethink your approach, follow the show, share it with a hunting partner, and leave a quick review so more blacktail hunters can find it. Got a tactic that changed your season? Tell us—we might feature it next.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
SPEAKER_03 (00:13):
And I'm Dave.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
This week we are with Cully Scroggins for his
success story.
So, real quick, it was openingday or the second day?
SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
Opening day.
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Opening day.
So the first kill of the year.
So the first success story ofthe year.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
You didn't waste any time.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
No.
It's like, why bother?
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Apparently he thought there was a contest,
some kind of race or something.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Yeah.
We've actually had three, Ithink, within the first week.
Yeah.
So we'll get Mark Boone on forhis second success story
podcast.
And then I think the otherperson declined, and that's okay
if you don't want to come on apodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
But that was three record book bucks the first
week.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
And several others that m sent us messages about
bucks that they harvested too.
Wow.
So some of them and trophiesnonetheless.
So one and I forgot his name,because most of the
communication, if it happensthrough Facebook, it goes to Osh
and Dave.
And yeah, I just tend to forgetnames, as they tell me in
(01:15):
passing.
But first buck with his son.
First his son's first buck.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, a little button buck.
Which it great.
Trophy with the first buck isalways a trophy.
And but also passing thoseskills along to his son was
really great to see and justgets him more excited, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
So but right now we're talking to you in your
season.
Tell us what were thecombination of classes that you
took or the class and all ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
The only class I've been to was the one in Woodland.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Okay, so the in-person trophy tactics.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:47):
And I think we went for like four or five hours, I
think, or the one day in-personis easily five to seven hours.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Way too fast.
Yeah, for sure.
It does go.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
It's a lot of information to cover in a day is
a lot.
Yeah.
So you really you kind of openthe fire hydrant and just let
her rip.
But we had you had come and so Iknow Cully through my son.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:11):
They met.
Cully was counselor at youthcamp.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
At a Christian youth camp.
And he struck up a conversationand then it turned into a
friendship with my son, DJ.
And through my son, he's like,he comes home and he's like,
Dad, he goes, I know this guy.
I met him.
He goes, he's a hunter.
You really need to meet thisguy.
He sounds like he's reallyinterested in the blacktail
thing.
Well, that went on for what twoyears?
SPEAKER_02 (02:37):
Yeah.
Before I didn't even messageyou, I don't think, until like
for a couple years.
And then I finally sent you amessage and was just asking you
like about baiting and somesense and just like general
stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:48):
Right.
And then you came to thePortland Sportsman Show.
Yep.
And I got to put a face to thename.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
And we struck up a conversation and everything.
And I think you left saying Igotta run it by the wife.
Yeah.
And it might not happen thisyear.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
Tell when somebody comes up and they're serious.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And it doesn't matter what skilllevel they're at as far as a
hunter.
They could be their first yearor their second year, but you
can recognize when somebody isserious and there's I want to
learn because what I'm doingisn't working.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Or I just want to constantly be learning
something, you know.
And so I knew you you walkedaway with that.
Lo and behold, we got youregistered for that one day, and
then you showed up for thein-person one day.
And I believe you told me thishad better work because my wife
said that you spent the moneyand this had better come to
fruition kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:41):
Well, it did.
Absolutely.
So now it should just beencouragement for her to let you
spend money on other relativity.
Thanks, Aaron.
Yeah, this worked out well.
There's proof, and we're good togo.
SPEAKER_03 (03:54):
Collie, just so you know, we don't do marriage
counseling.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Randy Newberg does.
Just go sit through a couple ofhis seminars and you should be
okay.
The marriage will last forever.
Yeah.
Or get your wife into hunting,and there you go.
Yeah, unless she is.
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
She's just starting.
So I mean she's always duck andgoose hunted, waterfowl.
Oh, awesome.
But she actually shot her firstbuck.
It was a fork and horn lastyear.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Oh, good.
SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
So we were renting a house and we actually shot it
out the back backyard.
So it was right before church,and I was like, honey, there's a
buck.
And she ran out there, handedher the gun.
She's never even shot my gun.
And I was just like, put thecrossers on him, pull the
trigger, and she did, and justabsolutely hammered him.
And she was dressed in all ofher nice church clothes, and I
(04:37):
was still in my sweatpants.
I was eating breakfast rightnow.
Just out there, field dressing.
Just gut ending.
And we go down there, look atit, and I'm like jumping up and
down.
I'm like, it's your first buck,babe.
You know, and she's like, Well,we I don't want to be late for
church.
I'm like, honey, we gotta like,we gotta gut this thing.
I gotta get skinned up.
She's like, I don't care, Idon't want to be late for
church.
I'm like, Danny, like, you don'tunderstand.
(04:58):
We gotta take care of this deer.
So, like we we actually made itto church on time, and I skinned
him, hung him in a tree.
It was cool enough that morning,and she was pretty pumped.
But uh, I really knew we need toget some sets going for her
because she was born with uhpositional club feet, so a
disability when she was a baby,so she wasn't even supposed to
(05:18):
walk.
Like her feet were so deformedwhen she was a baby, and so it
was a miracle they did surgeryand kind of put a cast around
her foot, and then she's nowable to walk.
But being on her feet all day orhaving to hike somewhere or do
something crazy on her feet,just yeah, she can't like we are
tree yell cunt, and so shewouldn't be able to do that, but
(05:39):
she for sure could do like atree stand or ground line, like
that would be perfect for herquarter mile from the gate,
yeah.
Yeah, it'd be perfect.
So I just gotta I gotta get herset up with the nice, nice,
yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Good deal, good deal.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
And I think we've talked about that.
That this not only for peoplewho are trying to figure it out,
but people who are extendingtheir hunts or maybe can't like
uh let's just be real.
I'm not walking 15 miles to gohunting, it just isn't
happening.
I hunt this way because I canmanage this, walking in and out
a half mile and call it all goodand everything.
(06:15):
And you know, now it's eveneasier because I don't have to
farm or carry 40 pounds ofapples every other day.
Yeah, it's even a lighter load,but it's been another benefit is
it extends or opens up huntingto to people who might not have
been able to.
So yeah, almost anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
So you didn't take the field day, the locating
field day, so you were able tograsp what Dave meant by thick,
because a lot of people strugglewith that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
And that was one of my actual sometimes it still is
a big challenge for me becausethere's like 10 different thicks
here in western Washington.
But that day in the class, Itook as many notes as I could
because I wanted to learn everydetail.
I took probably five pages frontand back of notes.
(07:03):
I mean, just so many notes andstuff, and then I would just
read over them.
But I mean, even the same day asa class, I went in the woods
that afternoon and just wentscouting, you know, which I had
done a couple years prior.
I think what helped was spendingenough time in the woods prior
to that class, and then when Iwent, then you start putting
pieces together.
(07:23):
Like, okay, that's why I seenrubs during the winter time.
There's no leaves on the trees,rub lines, or like maybe right
on the edge of like somethingsuper thick I couldn't even walk
in, you know, like and and andthat's the thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
Yeah, you know, we do boot camp every year, and I
tell the guys at the start ofboot camp, okay, when we start
into the locating and stuff,this is now I'm gonna tell you
this, but you need to be carefuldriving home because you're
gonna be all of a sudden you'relooking out, you're like, you're
looking at stuff that you didn'tlook at before.
Yeah, because the actual realityis 95% of us when we were taught
(07:59):
to blacktail hunt was to glassclear cuts.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
That's where we think that we're gonna find all
these big bucks, and then I openthe door to a whole new way of
thinking, and you start lookingat habitat differently, and then
all of a sudden you're like, ohman, I pass a ton of that stuff
going into my deer spot, youknow, and then you're driving
down the road going, man, it'sall over the place.
And you start looking off tothis guy.
My wife and Aaron hate it when Idrive.
(08:24):
A little sketchy becauseyear-round, I don't know how
many ditches we've almost gonein.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Does he swerve when like the direction he goes?
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
He'll start moving like towards the ditch.
And we joke about it now.
Like I will drive down toCalifornia a couple times a year
to visit family, and it's thesame way now.
I'm driving down I5 and oh,yeah.
Well, that's some good swervingback onto the highway.
SPEAKER_04 (08:48):
The semi hits the horn.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Yeah, it's one of those where it kind of changes
where you start noticing allthis, all this different area,
and then you're jumping on Onyxto find out, oh, can I do I have
access to that property?
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
And that's a good point.
You start reading yourtopographical is just a whole
lot different, you know what Imean?
You you go there with thepurpose of this is what I'm
looking for when I find this.
Yeah, I'm saving myself time,you know, because 15 minutes I
can look at that and make adecision.
Okay, is this good or no, it'snot where I want to be, or yeah,
this is it.
I hit it on the nail.
Exactly.
So it's just your mindsetchanges, your perspective
(09:26):
changes, and you start lookingmore for habitat than you do for
animals.
And you you got living proof.
You you did it this year, andit's where you wanted to be,
it's where you feel safe, and hedaylights in there all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
Yep.
It was it was a huge blessing.
When you're talking aboutdriving and always looking at
spots, so where my wife and Iwent on our honeymoon and our
anniversary, it's down on theOregon coast.
SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
No, I just want to reiterate again, we don't do
marriage.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
So when we go down there every time, I mean, I'll
bring my binoculars, and thenthis, you know, the last couple
times have been like, man, Igotta bring the bugle tube, you
know, because there's likeNational Forest Roads.
And she's like, Cully, likewe're gonna get distracted.
Well, we only have so many daysto do that.
I'm like, I'll see if I can golocate some bulls, honey, you
know, yeah.
I'm on my anniversary orsomething.
(10:17):
And that's just we I tried to goto like a lake or uh tried to go
to take the boat to the lake,like up north and go fishing for
our anniversary.
And she's like, Cully, all we'regonna do is fish.
Like, I want to spend time withyou, you know.
And I'm just like, Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
I want to spend time with you too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
On the lake, yeah, on the lake.
So before we get into youractual hunt, tell us some of
your hunting background, likefamily background as far as
hunting and all that, or isthere a family background to
hunting, or is it just somethingthat piqued your interest?
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
So my dad, he's kind of the only one that really
hunts in our family.
My uncle Mark's a big fisherman,but like my grandpa, he hunted a
little bit, but just worked hiswhole life.
And so my dad has been the bigpush on hunting and fishing for
me, and has taught me a lot overthe years.
And when I turned eight yearsold, I got my hunting license.
(11:08):
I was pretty young, and shot awhite-tailed doe, and then shot
a couple other does.
I think I shot my first archeryblack tail doe just off the
road.
You know, we but same thing youguys talk about.
That's all we hunted was JackFurs, clear cuts.
It wasn't anything more than youknow, than you would think.
(11:28):
People grow up thinking, um, buthe taught me everything about
elk hunting, so I just loveshooting anything with a bow.
Period.
I have gun hunted and shot anice mule deer and different
stuff like that, but there'snothing like shooting elk with
your bow or even these blacktails has been just an addiction
the last couple years.
(11:49):
It just consumes my mind a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Yep, yep.
You know, I you're preaching tothe choir then.
Nights, days, yeah.
Everything in here is is allarchery.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah.
Bears, bucks, bulls, allarchery.
It's awesome.
I think it's one of the funnestways to it's so personal.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
Yeah, not just the weapon, but having them in your
lap like that, because youraverage shot's 20 yards or less.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
And when you start to think about that, it's like,
well, you gotta close that gapbecause the average guy isn't a
fishing out 50, 60 yards.
But yeah, it is addicting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
It's so addicting.
Where I really learned a lotabout archery hunting for deer
was when I went to college inTennessee.
So I actually went on a fishingscholarship to Bethel University
back in Tennessee.
And so when we were there, wewere surrounded by agricultural
cornfields, timber, oak trees,you know, different kinds of
(12:44):
oaks.
I had to learn all of that, andI had no experience, like just
what you grow up hunting herearound Western Washington, you
know.
And so learning about edges, andthen there was a lot of hunters
on my fishing team that werefrom Oklahoma, Ohio.
One of our buddies from Ohio, hejust killed a buck this year.
It's probably pushing close to200 inches.
(13:04):
Nice.
He kills a 150 plus every singleyear.
And I mean, they just know somuch about deer hunting.
And so I just got to take allthat whitetail information in.
And I think in the three years,the last two really seriously
started to hunt, and I got likeseveral thousand acres worth of
(13:24):
different parcels of landpermission on.
And I would just go to the frontdoors and just door knock, just
go from door to door, andfinally I'd find a couple, old
couple that they don't donothing, they just harvest their
land and no one hunts.
And boom, I'd go there andturkey hunt, deer hunt, throw
trail cameras, do the wholething.
And I was able to harvest, Ithink, around 40-something deer
(13:47):
within the three years that Iwas there at college.
So you can shoot three doughs aday and two bucks a year.
And so you poor guy, we wouldjust slaughter the deer, and we
ended up locking down the bestpiece of land in the area, and
it was in city limits, and wejust absolutely hammered the
(14:08):
deer.
And there was some monster bucksthere, but some of the Amish had
poached them.
Oh, and so there was actuallytwo or three bucks that I saw in
a soybean field one day, andthat they were actually cutting
the soybean, and you could seethe bellies hanging down on the
bucks, and they were justabsolute monsters.
And I was like, when I found outwe got permission, and it took
us months to get permission.
(14:29):
This lady did not want to letanyone hunt her land, and we
even brought her stuff forValentine's.
I mean, all out on the city.
Yeah.
And when we did, when we gotthis land, we had she didn't
want anyone knowing, so we hadto keep it a secret.
And I mean, I drive a big dieseltruck, my buddy drives a diesel
(14:50):
truck, so like we we had toreally think things out, and I
mean, where we when because itwasn't far from our school, and
uh we just hammered them.
We had so much fun.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
That's so borrowing someone's Hyundai, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, electric we loaded hybrid.
Our best day was we shot sixdoes.
It was during rifle season at aspa out in the country, and we
shot six does before our firstclass.
And and so my whole bed of mytruck was filled up with deer.
So we got sick of eatingbackstraps for dinner.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
I mean shut your mouth.
SPEAKER_04 (15:27):
Don't come in here and start cussing like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:29):
Our dorm room turned into our common area turned into
like a slaughterhouse.
We would take tables and cleanthem, and then we had buckets of
water with meat in them, andwe'd be cleaning meat, and then
we would be processing meat andgrinding them in our common area
at our college.
SPEAKER_04 (15:47):
Awesome.
I missed out in school.
I'm telling you, I went to thewrong college.
That is hilarious.
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
That nobody freaked out tells a lot about that
school.
Yeah, just some guys, you know,processing their deer in the
arms full of blood.
SPEAKER_03 (16:01):
Did they need a professor there?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah, you buy them off with you know a few pounds
of meat, but oh yeah, that'shilarious.
SPEAKER_02 (16:07):
We missed seven weeks of school for fishing, and
the teachers hated the fishingteam because we would come back
and we would need homework andstuff to try to get our grades
up because we would miss so manyclasses.
So we tried to do as many onlineclasses as we could, but we all
went there to try to make itprofessionally.
Uh-huh.
So we I have a business degree,but that wasn't like we weren't
(16:29):
really after that.
We were trying to make itprofessionally, but being there,
we got to kill tons of turkeys,so many deer, and it was just a
blast.
Made so many good friends andmemories and stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
So, what are all the species that you have hunted?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Whitetail, mule deer, elk, I've killed a bear,
and then I think I've killedalmost all the subspecies of
turkeys, I think.
Okay.
I think I have killed a Rio, aMerriam, Eastern.
There's one more, is it one inFlorida?
I guess I haven't got that one.
Yeah, I haven't got a Floridaturkey, but yeah, all the deer,
(17:05):
not Sitka blacktail, or what'sthe one down in Texas?
There's one that's like asmaller subspecies of white
tail.
Oh what I'm trying to think ofwhat they're called.
Coos.
Coos deer.
Yeah, I haven't got to hunt themyet, but okay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I didn't realize they were in Texas too.
I knew they were Arizona.
Maybe Arizona or somewhere downsouth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Yeah.
We had someone who walked by, Iremember, at the show, and he
had like a 90.
One that scored a ninety orsomething, which is huge.
A huge cruise deer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it looked like, yeah, asmall kind of a blacktail, but
as far as the shape or a muledeer.
And but yeah, he said it was acoups.
Coos.
(17:45):
Okay.
I don't know.
I just host a hunting podcast.
I don't know anything abouthunting.
That's why I brought Dave intothe mix.
Okay, so now we need the story.
So give us a rundown of findingyour buck.
You figured out the wholelocating, and a lot of yours was
locating.
(18:05):
As far as using those skills,because I mean early season,
it's not time to use it.
What did you use any of thescents or anything like that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
Yep.
During yep, through the summer.
Yep, I did.
I did use scents, syntheticscent.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think that was one of thebiggest questions that I had too
before I took the class waslike, what about early season?
Well, because down south inWhitetales, they do a lot with
scrapes.
And bucks are doing stuff allyear round.
(18:33):
And that's what I there was someticket or some secrets to that
that I needed to take the classfor to really figure some of
that stuff out.
Locating, I only had a few kindof ideas of it before I took the
class.
But this was my third reallygood buck with a bow out of a
tree stand or blacktail buck inthe last four years.
(18:55):
So last year the bears reallyhurt my set.
Two or three of my sets, I gothit with bears really bad.
And I think I even messaged Davetoo, and it was almost to the
point was like I had to relocateareas.
There were so many predatorscoming in, and pretty soon you
see the deer just not evenshowing up, or if they were
there on high alert.
SPEAKER_03 (19:16):
And that's tough when you have a warm winter
because those bears don't godown.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Last year was a tough year for a lot of guys.
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Yeah, and yeah.
There was somebody who wentthrough coaching at 19 bears on
all of his sets.
Yeah.
And you know, we're like, how doyou that's terrible?
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
It's not good for the fawns.
It's not good.
We just have a huge predatorproblem period in Washington.
Yeah.
And it needs to be taken care ofbefore it gets out of hand.
But it's already out of hand.
It is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
But that's another episode for another day.
unknown (19:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
So you were tree stand hunting.
And so you're you were familiarwith tree stand hunting.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
From from Tennessee hunting down there.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Whitetail.
So so that's not a new concept.
Because it is a lot.
Set hunting is a new concept fora lot of blacktail guys.
And me knowing Dave, it's okay,that's how you hunt.
And actually, I think the glassand clear cuts was oh, really,
that's how you all learn?
Because I didn't really grow uphunting.
(20:19):
I went out a couple of times,and I think we might have done
it that way, but it was mostlylike sitting out in the woods
with my dad while he smokedcigarettes.
Not a not a strong strategy formaybe we were downwind.
I d I don't know.
I was like 11 or 12 at the timeand just had no clue.
(20:39):
But uh was this your largestblacktail?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Yeah, for sure.
So my first blacktail that I gotwith a bow or black tail buck
out of the tree stand, so I liketo use the hang-on stands.
Okay.
I had one from Tennessee.
It was like a hundred dollar onefrom Walmart, and it's lasted me
for years.
I just make sure I change theratchet straps and check
everything, you know.
But my first one, I was huntingan edge, and it was an old
(21:02):
jackfur patch, and that was onlyone thing I kind of knew about
whitetail hunting was, and thenI've heard some podcasts about
hunting edges for black tailstoo.
So I was on an edge of kind ofbig timber and then really thick
jackfurs, and there were threedeer trails that came together.
So I knew that when you havemultiple trails come together,
that's really good.
And then I just started I thinkI'd hunted through October
(21:24):
because it was general rifle andI wasn't doing any good.
And I was like, Well, I'll I'llstart putting scents out, you
know, or maybe go hunt with mybow in the stand during rifle
seasons.
I started putting some extrascent out and different stuff
like that, and then a little bitof like apples, and then I
started getting pictures ofbucks and more activity, and I'm
like, wow, okay, this is worthsitting in a for a set, yeah, a
(21:46):
couple evenings or whatever.
And I think I didn't get thatbuck.
I've had an old buck on camera,really old.
It was so heavy when dad and Ihad to drag it through the
timber, and he was just a forkand horn with the eye guard on
one side, but he had the bigRoman nose, the white face, just
a really mature buck.
Big regress.
(22:06):
Yeah, he was just massive body.
And he came in in November, andit was one of the coolest
things.
I was actually talking to theLord that morning.
I was sitting in my tree stand,and and I was like, Lord, man, I
just really want to kill that,kill that buck or any buck you
provide, you know.
And I was sitting there, I waslike, be so cool.
I mean, the sun's shiningthrough the maple trees and some
(22:26):
of the timber, and it was justreally cold.
It froze super hard.
I mean, it was awesome.
The sun's coming up, and I canjust hear them coming through
the timber, walking, and herecome single file does.
And I mean, it was like a wholeherd of them, which I was
shocked because blacktail, I'veonly seen you see a doe and
maybe a spike or a doe and twofawns, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Yeah, they're not really a herd animal.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Yeah, there was literally like five does that
came out of the timber, and youcould see them coming through
the viny maples, and like thesun would hit them, and you just
see their face and some of theirbody, and then they'd kind of go
through the shade.
And then they started munchingon my apples, and you could hear
them chewing, and it was justreally cool.
They're smelling around, andthen they all turned around, and
you could see that old buckcoming through the timber, and
(23:11):
the sun was hitting him, and hewas lip curling.
It was I was shaking so hard.
It was like when a bull elk wasscreaming in your face.
It was that kind of shaking, andI mean, plus it was cold, so it
was just like extreme shakes.
And he came in 20 yards, and Ijust absolutely smoked him, and
it was just like clockwork, itwas perfect.
(23:32):
He ran down there, piled up.
I called dad, he came and helpedme, and and then the next year I
had been watching Bucks doingmore scents, doing more feeding,
keeping up on the herd anddifferent stuff.
And then I think at that point Ihad messaged Dave and gotten
kind of some general info aboutlike hey, feeding and just some
general stuff before I took theclass, and that helped me.
(23:55):
And uh, I had a really big thebig one of the biggest fork and
horns I've ever seen in person,not online or anything, but just
in my life, you know.
Huge, really mature Roman-nosedfork and horn with big eye
guards, and he's super tall, notwide, but narrow and really
tall.
And uh he actually came in onOctober, I think it was like
(24:18):
22nd, it was right before arain.
So Dave has talked about that onthe podcast.
There was literally a stormcoming in, and I I saw it, and I
was like, man, if there's a daythat deer are gonna move, maybe
it's right before this rain, youknow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (24:31):
And I was in that stand and he came in to check my
scent, and I smoked him at 20yards.
And unfortunately, I thought Imade an absolute I mean the I
watched the shot go right behindthe shoulder, complete
pass-through, beautiful blood onthe arrow, not bubbles, but r
bright red.
And we ended up I went, gave himlike an hour, hour and a half.
(24:53):
Dad showed up, and we trackedthat buck for man, it was a long
ways.
And we would stop and give himmore time, and he bedded down
and ended up finding that bucklater on, but I I lost him.
He was really unfortunate.
I found him, but it was in stuffthat was so thick, and yeah, it
made it makes you sick.
(25:14):
But I mean, at least there waskind of a closing to the book,
you know.
There was a closing to that.
SPEAKER_03 (25:20):
But you hunt long enough, it's gonna happen at
some point, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
And that that's what was hard was it wasn't like, oh
shoot, it was a gut shot oranything.
I mean, it looked so perfect,and he ran on a dead sprint,
like did the kick, everything.
And I mean, I I was like, deaddeer, he's dead on his feet.
You know, I was listening tohear him crash and he didn't,
but I ended up finding thatbuck.
(25:45):
And then this year, it was justit was a huge blessing.
You know, my wife is telling mebecause I got my bowl on
September 9th, I got the buck onSeptember 1st, so I was done.
And so my wife was telling me, Ithink, I think God wants you
elsewhere this season, and I'mlike, man, I don't know.
Like, I gotta get a set for you,honey.
Like, I need to get from my dad.
(26:06):
You're not hearing from God.
Yeah, yeah.
That was he's just blessed methis year so much.
I mean, all glory to him.
Because I mean, for it to happenon opening morning, and I'd
watch this buck the year prior,had kind of found this area,
seen how many bucks were there,and they've really this area
where they're in, it seems likethe summertime there, like
(26:26):
specifically in this kind ofbedding area, like that is their
summertime spot.
Okay.
And so, I mean, during the rutlast year I had cameras there.
I tried running some scents.
I didn't know a lot of thespecifics because I hadn't taken
the class yet, but all I had waslike one fork and horn from like
October 1st through you know therest of the year.
(26:48):
And last year I had a generalrifle tag, so I couldn't archery
hunt this buck that I had oncamera.
I tried to get the multi-dearleftover, but I missed it.
I was on a skid steer and I gotdistracted and I missed it by
like 30, 40 minutes orsomething, you know, and I my
heart just sank.
I looked at down, I was like,I'm not gonna kill that buck.
I know I'm not because he'sgonna be there.
(27:09):
You know, my best chance wasthat archery because they're
there all the time.
And so this year I was like, I'mgetting that multi-dear tag.
And so then you kill it on thefirst yeah, literally.
I was at the door in Sportsman'san hour before they opened.
I had a guy race me to thecounter and I beat him there.
Uh-huh.
And I got to the counter, theywrote my name down.
(27:30):
I mean, I was like, I am gettinglike if I miss this, because I
had put in for special hunts,uh-you know, for rifle like
maybe any ad or some of thehunts back east.
So I was kind of screwed becauseI didn't get the multi-deer.
So I was like, I gotta get thatleftover, you know, multi-deer
text.
I ended up getting it, and itwas just meant to be.
And I had watched this buck fromprobably this spring, put my
(27:56):
cameras out, and then throughthe whole summer, and the more
that I did some of the stuffthat you taught us in the class,
the more he started daylightingand daylighting.
And especially when he was inhis velvet, he would daylight
like all the time.
And then I just knew just likethe Whitetails back easy, as
soon as they shed that velvet,like everything in their mind
changes, you know, and so I wasreally worried about that, but I
(28:18):
just kind of stuck with theprocess, and that morning was
really special.
Like I got up, went in there inthe dark.
I mean, I ended up Dave talksabout like having a scent-free
bag and scent-free everything,and I went to the whole extent
of all that because I was like,if there's one thing, I don't
want to blow this buck out ofhere.
SPEAKER_03 (28:38):
So I ended up going Can I just say that wives love
me for that?
Every time somebody says thatthere's a wife out there going,
Yeah, thanks, Dave.
It's more money they spent, youknow, on it's just on all the
products.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Yeah.
I think it works.
I did everything on the set, Itried to be completely
scent-free as I could, and Iactually was really worried that
I was gonna bump this buck inthe morning because I remember
that happening a lot, and I'vehad it happen around here now,
going to my stands, but backeast for Whitetail, you just
hear them blowing, and that justgod just makes you sick on your
(29:10):
way to the stand.
You're like, Well, there goesthat, you know, because
everything that blow just echoesthrough the through the woods,
yeah.
They know it is and so I got inmy stand, didn't hear anything
blow, so I was like, Oh my gosh,you know, it's a miracle.
And it was actually a there, itwas a real wet morning for
September because it had beenreally dry, and it was just a
(29:31):
misty, like that beach weather,you know, I just socked in the
fog, the mist.
It was really it was enoughmoisture you can hear it coming
out of the leaves, hitting theground.
And so when it got light out,there was a doe came running
behind me with a fawn, and shewas like on the run.
And I was like, Man, that'sweird.
And then here's this what I Ithink I call him big, I think it
(29:54):
was the forked horn, I call himbig fork or something on my
computer, and he was chasingthat doe with a fawn.
And I don't know if he was justmessing around or he was just a
little just I don't know whatthe deal is, but it was in
September, he was chasing her.
And then he just split off ontothe main trail that kind of goes
to my set.
(30:14):
And he hung around that set.
I mean, I could have shot him 30times.
He just wouldn't leave.
He would sit there and he'd lookaround.
He would look around.
And I mean, it got daylight, andfinally he crept off.
And the stuff that I'm hunting,it's there's a lot of big ferns
there too, and it's brushy andstuff too.
So I mean, as soon as they it'scrazy, as soon as they come out
(30:35):
of that set, they're gone.
I mean, you could see their earsmaybe or see movement, but
that's all you see, you know.
And so the Doe and Fawn left,and then there was just so much
action that morning, it wasinsane for just that one set.
It was like crazy.
I saw it doe and fawn, and thenanother doe came out with two
fawns, and then two spike buckscame out and was harassing her
(30:59):
fawns, just smelling them likethey were rutting up and stuff.
They were just being real ruddyalmost.
It was really weird.
And so they were smelling thosefawns, and then that mama did
not.
Man, when she she was kind oflike 50, 60 yards away, and when
she saw those bucks messing withthose fawns, she was just on a
dead run and she was kickingthose things and chasing.
(31:21):
It was like a circus thatmorning.
All around my stand, they'rerunning through the woods.
I'm like, this is the coolestthing.
I should have videotaped it.
It was so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
It's cool.
SPEAKER_02 (31:30):
And oh man.
SPEAKER_00 (31:31):
That's the coolest thing, I think, for me about set
hunting is just how close youare to these animals.
Yeah, and you get to see allkinds of different stuff like
that happening that you neversee sitting in a clear ever.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Like for sure.
And that was, I think, thebiggest thing I learned about
this season, or the one day Isat in a stand, I I've learned
so much that day was thebehavior.
So my wife, she loves horses, soshe always talks about how they
communicate without sayinganything.
And that day I learned so muchof how deer communicate by just
(32:07):
gestures and stomping theirhooves.
Everything they didn't make apeep out of their mouth, but
they said everything with herears, with her facial
expression.
I mean, just the way they shemoved, she maneuvered.
I mean, there was so muchcommunication there, but it was
not vocal at all.
And so it was really cool towatch all that happen and just
(32:29):
get to see her get mad, youknow, and pin her ears back.
And she ended up kicking the thetail end of one of the spikes,
and he tucked his tail and hetook off and he was gone.
And I was like, Man, this is socool, you know.
Thank you, Lord.
And they were sitting there, shewas still chasing around, and
she's kind of feeding a littlebit.
And then I think it was aboutsometime 7:30-ish, maybe, I
(32:51):
think.
And in the dark part of thetimber, there's an area that's
really dark, and so it's gotsome viny maple and some fur in
there, and it's just just dark.
And that doe did something thatI didn't expect her to do
because the wind was perfect.
It hit me in the face, and thatdoe blew like she got spooked.
(33:11):
And the other spike and herlittle fawns kind of took off in
the brush, and then they turnedand were looking back towards
that dark area in the timber.
I thought, what the heck?
I said she didn't smell me.
You know, there's no way shesmelled me.
The wind's great.
I'm way up here in a tree, 20feet.
And then I pulled up mybinoculars, and all I saw was
the brown tines coming throughthe ferns.
(33:32):
Oh, and then it would disappear,and then you would see them
again.
And they all it was like theyall stepped back to get out of
the way of him, and she was justdidn't let her fawns go over
there.
The spike was really scared.
SPEAKER_03 (33:46):
Funny when you bring a dominant buck into the
picture, how the mood of thewhole place just changes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
It was insane to watch.
SPEAKER_03 (33:54):
I mean, they just it's kind of a fearful respect
that they have for that dominantbuck, you know, because they all
just kind of back off, and it'swhatever he wants to do, he's
gonna do everybody else.
You're just a spectator rightnow.
SPEAKER_02 (34:06):
You know what I mean?
Yep.
It was that was really cool towatch.
I mean, I've never seen nothinglike that.
They all did exactly what youjust said, and he came in right
down one of the major trailsthat they have, right where the
big forking horn was, isactually, and I got to watch
that forking horn kind of seewhere he kind of it was crazy to
kind of watch him, he would kindof zigzag through the timber.
(34:28):
So, like hit I don't know ifthere was a trail that he was
specifically on or if he wasjust checking stuff, or you
could tell how sneaky he wasgoing through the it was really
cool to watch him, and then hejust finally disappeared.
But the big buck came in, he gotright behind a tree, and I was
like, Okay, I'm just gonna takemy time.
I know my set's at 20 yards, sojust a piece of cake shot.
(34:51):
And so when he got behind thattree, I figured I'd just draw
back.
So it was a few minutes sittingthere just watching him, and
like you guys have talked about,don't just stare at the horns
because that's the more my heartstarts pounding, you know.
I'm just trying to look at thebody because once I saw the
horns, I'm like, oh my gosh.
He and the last picture I hadgotten, I've had terrible luck
(35:11):
with my cell cam this a coupleof them this summer.
I don't know if it's becausethey're finally getting old.
They work great for like a yearor two, yeah, and then I've just
had a lot of problems.
So it was a bummer that mycamera died like four days
before season.
So I just went in there like thelast picture I had was him with
bloody white horns, and it was adaylight picture, but I didn't
(35:33):
know if he had daylight anymore,went nocturnal.
And so it was, yeah, I was myheart was pounding.
He went behind the tree.
I drew back, and I just took mytime and just made the perfect
shot.
And when I when the arrow, theLuminoch blew through him,
completely complete passthrough, heart shot.
I watched as he ran by my stand,and when he's running, his legs
(35:57):
were wobbling, like he was deadon his feet.
That's and then I watched himpile up right there.
That was a good feeling just towatch him die.
I mean, there's nothing worsethan like, man, I don't know
where I hit him yet.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think that's where theLuminocs just help you to show
you where your, you know, whereyour shot placement was.
And then first person I call wasmy wife, and I'm like, he's
down.
And we made a funny bet becauseI had a mustache for like a
(36:20):
while, and I love my mustache.
And everybody else at church waslike, dude, I'm gonna grow a
mustache too.
And it's been heck of aninspiration.
And she's like, I really loveyour goatee.
And so she's like, If you killthat big buck, how about you
shave your mustache?
And I'm like, the odds.
I'm like, okay, all right.
And then that night I'm just athome, just you know, shaving
(36:41):
that mustache right off.
It's gone.
SPEAKER_04 (36:43):
Well worth it though.
SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
Yeah, it was so how far, so 20-yard shot, how far
was your set from the gate fromwhere you walked in?
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Probably 300 yards.
Okay, not far at all.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
Not far at all.
Yeah, yeah.
It's amazing, just as an aspectof this of those big bucks,
yeah, are right there.
Yep.
If the good habitat is there,they're there.
SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
Yep.
And a lot of misnomers that wejust talked about here.
He said all summer I'm gettingdaylight pictures of him.
SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Those bucks, if they're in the right habitat,
they're gonna daylight just asmuch as the dew out there.
They're not just nocturnal likeeverybody thinks, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
And I tell guys at the seminars in the classes and
whatnot, they're moving aroundin that thick stuff all day
long.
All day.
And the fact that you weregetting pictures all summer
long, it wasn't just a one-timething.
No, it was like, okay, all daylong.
And then he shows up openingmorning, he's not in velvet
anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (37:42):
No, he was dark horned, which I love.
Yeah, which I which I was like.
SPEAKER_03 (37:47):
That's beautiful, beautiful bugs, just those
chocolate, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Those chocolate.
SPEAKER_03 (37:50):
You could tell he'd been raking on the furs.
SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:52):
But yeah, you could see that that hey, it it doesn't
matter, they're not nocturnalany more than the does are.
Yeah, you know, it's true.
It's where you're looking.
So there's that misnomer, andthen like Aaron was saying, just
all these things that we've beentaught or told rather, finding
out that they're not all true.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
And it's no knock against anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
It's just sometimes we take things at face value
because somebody else said it,or somebody else who Well, we've
talked about this, that and wewe've actually brought it up at
a c in some of the classes ofthese are things that we learn
from our dads, our grandfathers.
Yeah, yeah, you know, or thespecial people we respect Man
(38:39):
that's in our life that'steaching us.
And we don't want what we'resaying, this is just a different
way of hunting.
But it's not to say thateverything that they taught you
was bad, it's just this is adifferent way.
And to let go of something fromsomeone that you've yeah so
respected, and just be like,Okay, I'm not going to do it
(39:01):
this way, I want to try it thisway.
SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
Right, right.
But I mean, at the same time, ifyou're doing something that has
not produced the results thatyou've desired, change it.
Yeah, and you've been doing itfor year after year after year,
and you're no closer to havingsuccess with that particular
whatever it is that you'reimplementing into your hunt,
well, you know, common sensewould cause you to think, okay,
(39:24):
well, maybe I need to dosomething different.
So, but no, that's that'sawesome.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
So thinking about you said you were using some of
the pheromones early.
So, like the Evercom, syntheticEvercomm or Dopey or Yep, the
Evercomm was one.
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Okay, then just you know, a regular dopey, not a
like a ester.
No estrus, yeah.
No estrus.
I think that was a big one.
Okay.
And so just doing that really, Iwas telling Dave, I think the
day that you called and asked todo the podcast and stuff, I was
like, Dave, I couldn't believeit.
I mean, I had pictures of thisbuck.
He I had one picture of himhardhorned and he was bedding
(40:02):
down in front of my camera.
Right.
And I think the thing that helpsthe most too is that the other
deer, the does, and even thefawns, which is super important,
are are PN and maybe betting fora few minutes and get up and go
move.
Right.
They're leaving that beddingpheromone there for you and
replenishing it.
Yeah, nothing more natural thanthat.
SPEAKER_03 (40:21):
It's funny when you start realizing scents really do
work when they're used thecorrect way.
Yep, it's a game changer.
It's an absolute game changer.
I mean, you found this buck, youdid the locating, you found this
buck, and then you were able tocreate an illusion that kept
that buck coming back, not onlycoming back, but the fact that
he's betting there means that hefeels safe, you know.
(40:44):
This is a place where he's gonnacome in and relax.
Yeah, and that's exactly whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
And it is interesting to thinking about
because it's synthetics, and Iknow a lot of guys with the
change in the laws were worriedabout synthetics and whether or
not they work.
Well, that proves that they'rebuying it, they're they're
believing that that's you know,dophermones that are being left
behind.
Now, did you try to you can'tbait?
(41:12):
So was there anything and theycame in and were feeding around
there that you said was anythingthat you tried to do that maybe
left sense or anything foodrelated or not really.
SPEAKER_02 (41:23):
So I think it helped to the year that we could bait.
I was baiting pretty hard.
Okay, hot and heavy, giving themthe minerals.
So I think it's just a real bigbummer that we can't now because
I think I got to see just in oneyear the health of the herd,
even the small bucks that werelike little forked horns or
little three points.
(41:44):
I mean, I had I have one I callMr.
Krabs, and he was a buck I waslike, man, he'd be hard to pass
up.
I think he looks a little moremature than the buck I shot this
year, like he looks maybe a yearor so older.
But he he blew up in one year,and you know, he was hitting
they were hitting the trophyrock.
But I think the coolest part waswatching the fawns when they're
(42:07):
first born or and the mamahitting the protein and hitting
the salt that first year wecould do that when it was legal,
and I think just thinking thatman, that's actually really good
for him because she just burnedall these nutrients and
different stuff, having thisbaby.
And I think, man, if you startlittle bucks like that young, I
mean, think about when they getto four or five years old and
they're gonna be able to do it.
(42:28):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, they'regonna be monsters, yeah.
Either their body or that's whyI tell guys, you're managing a
deer herd.
SPEAKER_03 (42:33):
Yeah, you you really are, and you're experiencing a
call, like we have spots that wehunt year after year after year,
and we've watched these bucksfrom the time that they were
fawns till the time where it'slike, okay, they're on the hit
list this year, you know.
And that's always fun to havethat history with them and being
able to look back and say, okay,I was a part of that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yeah, it's super cool.
SPEAKER_03 (42:54):
And that dough is healthy, and she's popping out
fawns, and certain doughs willpop out just bucks, and certain
doughs will pop out just doughs,you know.
But you're able to keep yourdoughs healthy, and that is key.
That is key to the survival rateof those fawns, to the caliber
of buck that she puts out.
(43:17):
And man, if you can keep youfind a place with a good gene
pool, you want to keep thatplace healthy.
You just want to keep everythingI can to keep them from getting
sick, and even recovering frominjuries.
SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
Absolutely.
I think it was hit by a car, butit didn't kill him.
SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Had a broken leg.
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, and it went in because he went in and I think
it was last December and dumpeda bunch of minerals in, and that
buck came in and started hittingthose minerals and basically
survived those injuries.
That's awesome.
And now we don't have that as anoption anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
Do you think there's a chance that they will allow
that someday, or do you thinkit's over?
SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
I hear guys say it all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
They have reversed it in other states.
SPEAKER_03 (44:00):
Yeah, and I've caught myself saying it as well
that once they take something,we never get it back.
And I don't want to be that kindof Debbie Downer.
Because we we've made some hugestrides this past year with that
game commission.
Yeah, huge strides.
Yep.
I think there's a chance, maybein the future, I'm hoping there
is, because that law was madebased on emotion.
(44:23):
Yeah, there's just flat outemotion.
There's no it's notscientifically based.
It just isn't.
And the guys that think thatbaiting is a slam dunk haven't
baited.
Not at all.
You know, and going back to whatwe were just talking about,
keeping your deer herd healthy,it's so important.
It is, especially down here inSouthwest Washington, where we
(44:45):
were hit hard with that hairloss.
When they still they neverfigured it out, they just
thought it was a hair mite.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Oh no, it's yeah, hair mite.
And the ones I researched thisfor our listeners, it was some
form of a hair mite or flea.
And the ones that survived it,so basically they bred the
immunity to it into theiroffspring.
SPEAKER_03 (45:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
So now the hair loss uh from what it sounds like, it
won't come back because theyhave that the ones that survived
have that immunity to it.
SPEAKER_03 (45:20):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (45:21):
And are able to fight it off.
SPEAKER_03 (45:22):
When we did have it, it decimated our deer herd down
here.
I mean I was talking to guys whowho were going out and they
weren't seeing a single deer allseason.
Guys that were deer killers.
I again I hope it does.
I think the law was made out ofemotion.
I don't think that it there's noscience to back it.
I posted something by TedNugent, who went before the DNR
(45:46):
in Michigan, and made some greatpoints because they took away
baiting there, and you can't useminerals or anything like that.
And he made some spectacularpoints.
And go to my Facebook and you'llsee it.
But you know, this whole CWD.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
It's never been an you said there's never been
black.
There's never been a case.
SPEAKER_03 (46:07):
There's never been a case in blacktail, and the
reason is because blacktail, oneof the main reasons is, and we
kind of said this earlier, isblacktail aren't herd animals.
SPEAKER_00 (46:15):
No, no, and they have such a small range.
SPEAKER_03 (46:17):
Yeah, yeah.
They're they're the core area,their range, and you hear me say
it in the seminars, 51 acres orless.
SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
Yeah.
And as Dr.
Josie Rose, who came on and wedid the whole CWD episode with
her, which was great.
She said blacktail are kind ofthe poster child for not
spreading it because of theirbehavior.
So we'll see.
It's one of those where we needto be active.
And at the time of therecording, it they're open for
(46:45):
setting seasons and regulations.
We need to always take it theopportunity to keep our
feedback.
SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
Right, your congressman.
SPEAKER_00 (46:52):
At all times.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
Yep.
Be the squeaky wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
But getting back.
SPEAKER_03 (46:57):
That's another episode for a different time.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
Yes.
But I mean, it's always good totalk about those topics.
SPEAKER_03 (47:03):
Now let's talk about wolves.
SPEAKER_00 (47:05):
Exactly.
So great.
Do you have a target bug fornext year?
Already?
SPEAKER_02 (47:11):
Yeah, I think it's Mr.
Krabs right now.
And I think this year I kind ofwish I would have had more than
one set.
So I did have some cameras outthis summer, but I just had so
many problems with my camerasthat it kind of had I had two
other sets kind of going, and Ijust had to scratch them.
And then I kind of threw all mywhat would you call that?
(47:32):
Everything in one basket, youknow, on that one buck.
And so, you know, I hear youguys talk, it's kind of a risk
too, because things can happen,things can change, you know, he
gets hit by a car or or someoneelse shoots him, or you know,
Predator gets him.
Or you lose them.
Yeah, I've heard that story.
I mean, things can happen.
So I mean, I kind of I just gotreally blessed this year.
(47:52):
Yes.
And absolutely so I mean it'sstill not too late to go get
some sets going, especially forlike my dad or my wife.
You know, so I'm planning onthis week trying to get out
there and put some of thosescents out and some cameras.
And I just have manual, cheap,muddy cameras that work just
fine.
But uh yeah, I need to get somenew cell cameras and stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (48:14):
When I first started this, they didn't have cell
cameras.
Yeah, it was the string acrossthe path, and it would just trip
and it you'd know what time theanimal was coming by.
You didn't know what it was.
I mean, that's how old I am, youknow.
And so, but yeah, you're sayingI got the old ones.
It's just like, you know what?
Those are that old.
It's a step up from where Istarted.
(48:34):
So, but that's awesome.
Do you got pictures of Mr.
Krabs?
I do have pictures.
Would you mind us if we sendthem to us?
We could post them.
SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
That would be awesome.
You don't have to tell us wherehe's at.
No tell him creek, or yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
Just send me the waypoint and I'll make sure that
nobody goes after him.
SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
Yeah, it's one of those things where and I've
talked to Dave about this.
I've got and just with thissystem, and when you figure out
how to locate.
So I've got three sets that Isort of monitor, but I'm working
one in particular, but I havemultiple shooter bucks.
And so it's almost like, well,gosh, I don't know.
(49:10):
Do I go after this one nextyear?
Do I go after this one?
I think maybe if he blows up,I'll go after him and postpone
going after this.
And it's yeah, it's kind of likeit's a nice problem to have.
It's a nice problem to have.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Yes.
I had seven bucks on this setthis summer.
Last year, I think there weresix, and then I think there was
a new little butt buck or spikeadded to that.
And right on.
They kind of just get a littlebit bigger, you know, if you
were to line them up.
There's the little fork andhorn, there's a little
three-point, there's littlecrabs, Mr.
Krabs, and then the one wecalled Scarface, which I think,
(49:46):
you know, my wife named him thatbecause some of the pictures he
almost had like a shape of aquestion mark on the side of his
face, but he was in a summercoat.
And I I kind of think becausewhen he came out of his summer
coat last year, it wasn't reallythere.
So I don't know if he just kindof had rubbed up against some
stuff, you know, on his summercoat, probably.
Because he definitely didn'thave it this year.
(50:07):
He had some lines on his neck,like you're one buck in here,
just some different kind ofmarkings, you know, with that
summer coat.
But what was interesting, I wastelling you on the phone, is
that last year his smaller forkon the front was on the opposite
side.
So I don't know if that he lookslike the same buck, and that's I
was telling you, you know, I'mlike, man, I I think it is.
(50:29):
Right.
I mean, I haven't seen any morefour points in there with eye
guards, but it was but hisgenetics are still there.
SPEAKER_00 (50:35):
And that's the great thing when you find like with
your what was your buck's name?
Scarface.
The one you got this year.
SPEAKER_02 (50:43):
Scarface, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:43):
Oh, that was Scarface.
Yes.
Okay.
So his genetics, Scarface'sgenetics, are still there.
And yeah, you just kind of lethim grow up, and by the time
that they're to the point whereyou want to shoot them, they've
already passed along thosegenetics.
Yeah.
And so it's almost like findingthose great genetic pockets.
Yep.
(51:03):
And then never telling anybodywhere they're at.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (51:06):
Oh, it's just a kid in a candy store.
It really, really is because youjust get jacked watching them.
It's addicting.
Yeah.
And the fun thing that I like islike, okay, so he we ended the
season last year, he was a smallthree.
You know, and he may be four anda half, he may wait till five
and a half before he makes thatbig bump.
Because typically Blacktailswill make one big jump.
(51:29):
And so like he goes back, he's agood three, maybe 70 inches.
And then you see him the nextyear and he blew up.
Yep.
And then it's just like, oh, themain frame is still there.
You recognize that, but now, youknow, he put on 20 inches or 15
inches, and now he's just like,Oh, yeah, that's awesome.
That kind of surprise is whatyou like when you start going to
(51:51):
your cameras and whatnot.
But that's Mr.
SPEAKER_02 (51:53):
Krabs from last year.
You know, when we were able todo the minerals and the protein
and stuff, listen to yourpodcast talking about making
sure you do always do theprotein and everything with the
minerals.
He from last year to this year,he went from like just a three
by three to like this one beamup here, just went super tall
and forked even.
(52:15):
And then he just got wider andbigger forks.
I mean, he just blew up.
SPEAKER_03 (52:20):
This buck here lucky was always I watched him for
three years before I finallywent in on the fourth year.
But every year he was just a bigthree, with spindly, he was
really wide, but he just didn't,and so I started just pumping
him full of the protein and theminerals and everything, and
then he comes out and now he's afour by three, and he just put
(52:41):
on a ton of mass.
Man, and it was just like, yeah,that's the buck I'm going out.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's always fun like thatwhen you have a history.
So you said that you gotta getthe sets for your wife and your
dad very soon.
So it's happening now.
Yeah, how confident are you thatyou're going to be able to find
bucks for them?
SPEAKER_02 (53:01):
Pretty confident.
Really pretty confident.
I mean, just this year, and thenjust doing the tree stand thing
and then just putting the piecestogether.
I think the coolest thing aboutblacktail hunting and then doing
your class, especially being abass fisherman, our minds don't
kind of work like some salmonfishermen go out there and you
use the same spinners.
(53:21):
Obviously, you're changingcolors and stuff, but when
you're bass fishing, you have tofigure them out.
They're like the fish are alwaysthere, just like the deer,
always in the woods, and there'smore to what you know already,
you know.
So I love to just learn.
I mean, I'll talk to anybody,and I just gather my head just
as much as I can get my headwith information.
(53:41):
So, like when I went to yourclass or talk to anybody that
shot a nice black tail, even ifthey do hunt clear cuts or maybe
they still hunt timber.
I mean, I'm always picking theirbrain about where they like to
bed, the kind of stuff or thatday they shot them, or just
anything like that.
I think it's just the moreknowledge I've just had,
definitely have some moreconfidence now.
(54:02):
And I'm excited for next year,or my wife or dad this year
would be nice to get one of thema buck, too.
Absolutely cool.
SPEAKER_03 (54:09):
Absolutely.
So is your wife gonna shoot itfrom the couch?
That's my question.
SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
Well, not this year.
We're in an apartment, so Imean, we might be shooting
across the Kelso High, you know,the high school might be a
little sketchy.
Right on, right?
Yeah, we moved to apartment, soI mean, it's not too bad, but
yeah, we can't really shoot offthe gutter this year, you know.
That's funny.
SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
Okay, well, I think that kind of wraps it up.
I this has turned into a nicelong episode, so I think our
listeners are gonna be it'll bethe commute to work and then the
commute home that they'll get tolisten to perfect.
That that works out great, butanyway, congratulations on your
buck.
Thanks, Collie.
Beautiful and thank you forcoming on and sharing your story
(54:50):
with everyone because I thinkthat you talk about the Lord
blessed you.
Well, now in turn, I think justsharing that story is you being
able to bless the all thelisteners who are just trying to
learn and how to do this.
Yep, and always appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02 (55:04):
Say a prayer before you go out there, before you're
in your stand for safety andwhile you're in your stand, that
God blesses you with the deer,and and He will.
There you go.
It's the best place to spendtime with Him.
Amen.
So okay.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
Well, thanks for joining us, everyone, and we
will talk to you next week.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
SPEAKER_03 (00:13):
And I'm Dave.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
This week we are with Cully Scroggins for his
success story.
So, real quick, it was openingday or the second day?
SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
Opening day.
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Opening day.
So the first kill of the year.
So the first success story ofthe year.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
You didn't waste any time.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
No.
It's like, why bother?
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Apparently he thought there was a contest,
some kind of race or something.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Yeah.
We've actually had three, Ithink, within the first week.
Yeah.
So we'll get Mark Boone on forhis second success story
podcast.
And then I think the otherperson declined, and that's okay
if you don't want to come on apodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
But that was three record book bucks the first
week.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
And several others that m sent us messages about
bucks that they harvested too.
Wow.
So some of them and trophiesnonetheless.
So one and I forgot his name,because most of the
communication, if it happensthrough Facebook, it goes to Osh
and Dave.
And yeah, I just tend to forgetnames, as they tell me in
(01:15):
passing.
But first buck with his son.
First his son's first buck.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, a little button buck.
Which it great.
Trophy with the first buck isalways a trophy.
And but also passing thoseskills along to his son was
really great to see and justgets him more excited, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
So but right now we're talking to you in your
season.
Tell us what were thecombination of classes that you
took or the class and all ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
The only class I've been to was the one in Woodland.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Okay, so the in-person trophy tactics.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:47):
And I think we went for like four or five hours, I
think, or the one day in-personis easily five to seven hours.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Way too fast.
Yeah, for sure.
It does go.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
It's a lot of information to cover in a day is
a lot.
Yeah.
So you really you kind of openthe fire hydrant and just let
her rip.
But we had you had come and so Iknow Cully through my son.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:11):
They met.
Cully was counselor at youthcamp.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
At a Christian youth camp.
And he struck up a conversationand then it turned into a
friendship with my son, DJ.
And through my son, he's like,he comes home and he's like,
Dad, he goes, I know this guy.
I met him.
He goes, he's a hunter.
You really need to meet thisguy.
He sounds like he's reallyinterested in the blacktail
thing.
Well, that went on for what twoyears?
SPEAKER_02 (02:37):
Yeah.
Before I didn't even messageyou, I don't think, until like
for a couple years.
And then I finally sent you amessage and was just asking you
like about baiting and somesense and just like general
stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:48):
Right.
And then you came to thePortland Sportsman Show.
Yep.
And I got to put a face to thename.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
And we struck up a conversation and everything.
And I think you left saying Igotta run it by the wife.
Yeah.
And it might not happen thisyear.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
Tell when somebody comes up and they're serious.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And it doesn't matter what skilllevel they're at as far as a
hunter.
They could be their first yearor their second year, but you
can recognize when somebody isserious and there's I want to
learn because what I'm doingisn't working.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Or I just want to constantly be learning
something, you know.
And so I knew you you walkedaway with that.
Lo and behold, we got youregistered for that one day, and
then you showed up for thein-person one day.
And I believe you told me thishad better work because my wife
said that you spent the moneyand this had better come to
fruition kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:41):
Well, it did.
Absolutely.
So now it should just beencouragement for her to let you
spend money on other relativity.
Thanks, Aaron.
Yeah, this worked out well.
There's proof, and we're good togo.
SPEAKER_03 (03:54):
Collie, just so you know, we don't do marriage
counseling.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Randy Newberg does.
Just go sit through a couple ofhis seminars and you should be
okay.
The marriage will last forever.
Yeah.
Or get your wife into hunting,and there you go.
Yeah, unless she is.
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
She's just starting.
So I mean she's always duck andgoose hunted, waterfowl.
Oh, awesome.
But she actually shot her firstbuck.
It was a fork and horn lastyear.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Oh, good.
SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
So we were renting a house and we actually shot it
out the back backyard.
So it was right before church,and I was like, honey, there's a
buck.
And she ran out there, handedher the gun.
She's never even shot my gun.
And I was just like, put thecrossers on him, pull the
trigger, and she did, and justabsolutely hammered him.
And she was dressed in all ofher nice church clothes, and I
(04:37):
was still in my sweatpants.
I was eating breakfast rightnow.
Just out there, field dressing.
Just gut ending.
And we go down there, look atit, and I'm like jumping up and
down.
I'm like, it's your first buck,babe.
You know, and she's like, Well,we I don't want to be late for
church.
I'm like, honey, we gotta like,we gotta gut this thing.
I gotta get skinned up.
She's like, I don't care, Idon't want to be late for
church.
I'm like, Danny, like, you don'tunderstand.
(04:58):
We gotta take care of this deer.
So, like we we actually made itto church on time, and I skinned
him, hung him in a tree.
It was cool enough that morning,and she was pretty pumped.
But uh, I really knew we need toget some sets going for her
because she was born with uhpositional club feet, so a
disability when she was a baby,so she wasn't even supposed to
(05:18):
walk.
Like her feet were so deformedwhen she was a baby, and so it
was a miracle they did surgeryand kind of put a cast around
her foot, and then she's nowable to walk.
But being on her feet all day orhaving to hike somewhere or do
something crazy on her feet,just yeah, she can't like we are
tree yell cunt, and so shewouldn't be able to do that, but
(05:39):
she for sure could do like atree stand or ground line, like
that would be perfect for herquarter mile from the gate,
yeah.
Yeah, it'd be perfect.
So I just gotta I gotta get herset up with the nice, nice,
yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Good deal, good deal.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
And I think we've talked about that.
That this not only for peoplewho are trying to figure it out,
but people who are extendingtheir hunts or maybe can't like
uh let's just be real.
I'm not walking 15 miles to gohunting, it just isn't
happening.
I hunt this way because I canmanage this, walking in and out
a half mile and call it all goodand everything.
(06:15):
And you know, now it's eveneasier because I don't have to
farm or carry 40 pounds ofapples every other day.
Yeah, it's even a lighter load,but it's been another benefit is
it extends or opens up huntingto to people who might not have
been able to.
So yeah, almost anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
So you didn't take the field day, the locating
field day, so you were able tograsp what Dave meant by thick,
because a lot of people strugglewith that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
And that was one of my actual sometimes it still is
a big challenge for me becausethere's like 10 different thicks
here in western Washington.
But that day in the class, Itook as many notes as I could
because I wanted to learn everydetail.
I took probably five pages frontand back of notes.
(07:03):
I mean, just so many notes andstuff, and then I would just
read over them.
But I mean, even the same day asa class, I went in the woods
that afternoon and just wentscouting, you know, which I had
done a couple years prior.
I think what helped was spendingenough time in the woods prior
to that class, and then when Iwent, then you start putting
pieces together.
(07:23):
Like, okay, that's why I seenrubs during the winter time.
There's no leaves on the trees,rub lines, or like maybe right
on the edge of like somethingsuper thick I couldn't even walk
in, you know, like and and andthat's the thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
Yeah, you know, we do boot camp every year, and I
tell the guys at the start ofboot camp, okay, when we start
into the locating and stuff,this is now I'm gonna tell you
this, but you need to be carefuldriving home because you're
gonna be all of a sudden you'relooking out, you're like, you're
looking at stuff that you didn'tlook at before.
Yeah, because the actual realityis 95% of us when we were taught
(07:59):
to blacktail hunt was to glassclear cuts.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
That's where we think that we're gonna find all
these big bucks, and then I openthe door to a whole new way of
thinking, and you start lookingat habitat differently, and then
all of a sudden you're like, ohman, I pass a ton of that stuff
going into my deer spot, youknow, and then you're driving
down the road going, man, it'sall over the place.
And you start looking off tothis guy.
My wife and Aaron hate it when Idrive.
(08:24):
A little sketchy becauseyear-round, I don't know how
many ditches we've almost gonein.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Does he swerve when like the direction he goes?
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
He'll start moving like towards the ditch.
And we joke about it now.
Like I will drive down toCalifornia a couple times a year
to visit family, and it's thesame way now.
I'm driving down I5 and oh,yeah.
Well, that's some good swervingback onto the highway.
SPEAKER_04 (08:48):
The semi hits the horn.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Yeah, it's one of those where it kind of changes
where you start noticing allthis, all this different area,
and then you're jumping on Onyxto find out, oh, can I do I have
access to that property?
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
And that's a good point.
You start reading yourtopographical is just a whole
lot different, you know what Imean?
You you go there with thepurpose of this is what I'm
looking for when I find this.
Yeah, I'm saving myself time,you know, because 15 minutes I
can look at that and make adecision.
Okay, is this good or no, it'snot where I want to be, or yeah,
this is it.
I hit it on the nail.
Exactly.
So it's just your mindsetchanges, your perspective
(09:26):
changes, and you start lookingmore for habitat than you do for
animals.
And you you got living proof.
You you did it this year, andit's where you wanted to be,
it's where you feel safe, and hedaylights in there all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
Yep.
It was it was a huge blessing.
When you're talking aboutdriving and always looking at
spots, so where my wife and Iwent on our honeymoon and our
anniversary, it's down on theOregon coast.
SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
No, I just want to reiterate again, we don't do
marriage.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
So when we go down there every time, I mean, I'll
bring my binoculars, and thenthis, you know, the last couple
times have been like, man, Igotta bring the bugle tube, you
know, because there's likeNational Forest Roads.
And she's like, Cully, likewe're gonna get distracted.
Well, we only have so many daysto do that.
I'm like, I'll see if I can golocate some bulls, honey, you
know, yeah.
I'm on my anniversary orsomething.
(10:17):
And that's just we I tried to goto like a lake or uh tried to go
to take the boat to the lake,like up north and go fishing for
our anniversary.
And she's like, Cully, all we'regonna do is fish.
Like, I want to spend time withyou, you know.
And I'm just like, Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
I want to spend time with you too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
On the lake, yeah, on the lake.
So before we get into youractual hunt, tell us some of
your hunting background, likefamily background as far as
hunting and all that, or isthere a family background to
hunting, or is it just somethingthat piqued your interest?
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
So my dad, he's kind of the only one that really
hunts in our family.
My uncle Mark's a big fisherman,but like my grandpa, he hunted a
little bit, but just worked hiswhole life.
And so my dad has been the bigpush on hunting and fishing for
me, and has taught me a lot overthe years.
And when I turned eight yearsold, I got my hunting license.
(11:08):
I was pretty young, and shot awhite-tailed doe, and then shot
a couple other does.
I think I shot my first archeryblack tail doe just off the
road.
You know, we but same thing youguys talk about.
That's all we hunted was JackFurs, clear cuts.
It wasn't anything more than youknow, than you would think.
(11:28):
People grow up thinking, um, buthe taught me everything about
elk hunting, so I just loveshooting anything with a bow.
Period.
I have gun hunted and shot anice mule deer and different
stuff like that, but there'snothing like shooting elk with
your bow or even these blacktails has been just an addiction
the last couple years.
(11:49):
It just consumes my mind a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Yep, yep.
You know, I you're preaching tothe choir then.
Nights, days, yeah.
Everything in here is is allarchery.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah.
Bears, bucks, bulls, allarchery.
It's awesome.
I think it's one of the funnestways to it's so personal.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
Yeah, not just the weapon, but having them in your
lap like that, because youraverage shot's 20 yards or less.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
And when you start to think about that, it's like,
well, you gotta close that gapbecause the average guy isn't a
fishing out 50, 60 yards.
But yeah, it is addicting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
It's so addicting.
Where I really learned a lotabout archery hunting for deer
was when I went to college inTennessee.
So I actually went on a fishingscholarship to Bethel University
back in Tennessee.
And so when we were there, wewere surrounded by agricultural
cornfields, timber, oak trees,you know, different kinds of
(12:44):
oaks.
I had to learn all of that, andI had no experience, like just
what you grow up hunting herearound Western Washington, you
know.
And so learning about edges, andthen there was a lot of hunters
on my fishing team that werefrom Oklahoma, Ohio.
One of our buddies from Ohio, hejust killed a buck this year.
It's probably pushing close to200 inches.
(13:04):
Nice.
He kills a 150 plus every singleyear.
And I mean, they just know somuch about deer hunting.
And so I just got to take allthat whitetail information in.
And I think in the three years,the last two really seriously
started to hunt, and I got likeseveral thousand acres worth of
(13:24):
different parcels of landpermission on.
And I would just go to the frontdoors and just door knock, just
go from door to door, andfinally I'd find a couple, old
couple that they don't donothing, they just harvest their
land and no one hunts.
And boom, I'd go there andturkey hunt, deer hunt, throw
trail cameras, do the wholething.
And I was able to harvest, Ithink, around 40-something deer
(13:47):
within the three years that Iwas there at college.
So you can shoot three doughs aday and two bucks a year.
And so you poor guy, we wouldjust slaughter the deer, and we
ended up locking down the bestpiece of land in the area, and
it was in city limits, and wejust absolutely hammered the
(14:08):
deer.
And there was some monster bucksthere, but some of the Amish had
poached them.
Oh, and so there was actuallytwo or three bucks that I saw in
a soybean field one day, andthat they were actually cutting
the soybean, and you could seethe bellies hanging down on the
bucks, and they were justabsolute monsters.
And I was like, when I found outwe got permission, and it took
us months to get permission.
(14:29):
This lady did not want to letanyone hunt her land, and we
even brought her stuff forValentine's.
I mean, all out on the city.
Yeah.
And when we did, when we gotthis land, we had she didn't
want anyone knowing, so we hadto keep it a secret.
And I mean, I drive a big dieseltruck, my buddy drives a diesel
(14:50):
truck, so like we we had toreally think things out, and I
mean, where we when because itwasn't far from our school, and
uh we just hammered them.
We had so much fun.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
That's so borrowing someone's Hyundai, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, electric we loaded hybrid.
Our best day was we shot sixdoes.
It was during rifle season at aspa out in the country, and we
shot six does before our firstclass.
And and so my whole bed of mytruck was filled up with deer.
So we got sick of eatingbackstraps for dinner.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
I mean shut your mouth.
SPEAKER_04 (15:27):
Don't come in here and start cussing like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:29):
Our dorm room turned into our common area turned into
like a slaughterhouse.
We would take tables and cleanthem, and then we had buckets of
water with meat in them, andwe'd be cleaning meat, and then
we would be processing meat andgrinding them in our common area
at our college.
SPEAKER_04 (15:47):
Awesome.
I missed out in school.
I'm telling you, I went to thewrong college.
That is hilarious.
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
That nobody freaked out tells a lot about that
school.
Yeah, just some guys, you know,processing their deer in the
arms full of blood.
SPEAKER_03 (16:01):
Did they need a professor there?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah, you buy them off with you know a few pounds
of meat, but oh yeah, that'shilarious.
SPEAKER_02 (16:07):
We missed seven weeks of school for fishing, and
the teachers hated the fishingteam because we would come back
and we would need homework andstuff to try to get our grades
up because we would miss so manyclasses.
So we tried to do as many onlineclasses as we could, but we all
went there to try to make itprofessionally.
Uh-huh.
So we I have a business degree,but that wasn't like we weren't
(16:29):
really after that.
We were trying to make itprofessionally, but being there,
we got to kill tons of turkeys,so many deer, and it was just a
blast.
Made so many good friends andmemories and stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
So, what are all the species that you have hunted?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Whitetail, mule deer, elk, I've killed a bear,
and then I think I've killedalmost all the subspecies of
turkeys, I think.
Okay.
I think I have killed a Rio, aMerriam, Eastern.
There's one more, is it one inFlorida?
I guess I haven't got that one.
Yeah, I haven't got a Floridaturkey, but yeah, all the deer,
(17:05):
not Sitka blacktail, or what'sthe one down in Texas?
There's one that's like asmaller subspecies of white
tail.
Oh what I'm trying to think ofwhat they're called.
Coos.
Coos deer.
Yeah, I haven't got to hunt themyet, but okay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I didn't realize they were in Texas too.
I knew they were Arizona.
Maybe Arizona or somewhere downsouth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Yeah.
We had someone who walked by, Iremember, at the show, and he
had like a 90.
One that scored a ninety orsomething, which is huge.
A huge cruise deer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it looked like, yeah, asmall kind of a blacktail, but
as far as the shape or a muledeer.
And but yeah, he said it was acoups.
Coos.
(17:45):
Okay.
I don't know.
I just host a hunting podcast.
I don't know anything abouthunting.
That's why I brought Dave intothe mix.
Okay, so now we need the story.
So give us a rundown of findingyour buck.
You figured out the wholelocating, and a lot of yours was
locating.
(18:05):
As far as using those skills,because I mean early season,
it's not time to use it.
What did you use any of thescents or anything like that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
Yep.
During yep, through the summer.
Yep, I did.
I did use scents, syntheticscent.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think that was one of thebiggest questions that I had too
before I took the class waslike, what about early season?
Well, because down south inWhitetales, they do a lot with
scrapes.
And bucks are doing stuff allyear round.
(18:33):
And that's what I there was someticket or some secrets to that
that I needed to take the classfor to really figure some of
that stuff out.
Locating, I only had a few kindof ideas of it before I took the
class.
But this was my third reallygood buck with a bow out of a
tree stand or blacktail buck inthe last four years.
(18:55):
So last year the bears reallyhurt my set.
Two or three of my sets, I gothit with bears really bad.
And I think I even messaged Davetoo, and it was almost to the
point was like I had to relocateareas.
There were so many predatorscoming in, and pretty soon you
see the deer just not evenshowing up, or if they were
there on high alert.
SPEAKER_03 (19:16):
And that's tough when you have a warm winter
because those bears don't godown.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Last year was a tough year for a lot of guys.
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Yeah, and yeah.
There was somebody who wentthrough coaching at 19 bears on
all of his sets.
Yeah.
And you know, we're like, how doyou that's terrible?
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
It's not good for the fawns.
It's not good.
We just have a huge predatorproblem period in Washington.
Yeah.
And it needs to be taken care ofbefore it gets out of hand.
But it's already out of hand.
It is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
But that's another episode for another day.
unknown (19:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
So you were tree stand hunting.
And so you're you were familiarwith tree stand hunting.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
From from Tennessee hunting down there.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Whitetail.
So so that's not a new concept.
Because it is a lot.
Set hunting is a new concept fora lot of blacktail guys.
And me knowing Dave, it's okay,that's how you hunt.
And actually, I think the glassand clear cuts was oh, really,
that's how you all learn?
Because I didn't really grow uphunting.
(20:19):
I went out a couple of times,and I think we might have done
it that way, but it was mostlylike sitting out in the woods
with my dad while he smokedcigarettes.
Not a not a strong strategy formaybe we were downwind.
I d I don't know.
I was like 11 or 12 at the timeand just had no clue.
(20:39):
But uh was this your largestblacktail?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Yeah, for sure.
So my first blacktail that I gotwith a bow or black tail buck
out of the tree stand, so I liketo use the hang-on stands.
Okay.
I had one from Tennessee.
It was like a hundred dollar onefrom Walmart, and it's lasted me
for years.
I just make sure I change theratchet straps and check
everything, you know.
But my first one, I was huntingan edge, and it was an old
(21:02):
jackfur patch, and that was onlyone thing I kind of knew about
whitetail hunting was, and thenI've heard some podcasts about
hunting edges for black tailstoo.
So I was on an edge of kind ofbig timber and then really thick
jackfurs, and there were threedeer trails that came together.
So I knew that when you havemultiple trails come together,
that's really good.
And then I just started I thinkI'd hunted through October
(21:24):
because it was general rifle andI wasn't doing any good.
And I was like, Well, I'll I'llstart putting scents out, you
know, or maybe go hunt with mybow in the stand during rifle
seasons.
I started putting some extrascent out and different stuff
like that, and then a little bitof like apples, and then I
started getting pictures ofbucks and more activity, and I'm
like, wow, okay, this is worthsitting in a for a set, yeah, a
(21:46):
couple evenings or whatever.
And I think I didn't get thatbuck.
I've had an old buck on camera,really old.
It was so heavy when dad and Ihad to drag it through the
timber, and he was just a forkand horn with the eye guard on
one side, but he had the bigRoman nose, the white face, just
a really mature buck.
Big regress.
(22:06):
Yeah, he was just massive body.
And he came in in November, andit was one of the coolest
things.
I was actually talking to theLord that morning.
I was sitting in my tree stand,and and I was like, Lord, man, I
just really want to kill that,kill that buck or any buck you
provide, you know.
And I was sitting there, I waslike, be so cool.
I mean, the sun's shiningthrough the maple trees and some
(22:26):
of the timber, and it was justreally cold.
It froze super hard.
I mean, it was awesome.
The sun's coming up, and I canjust hear them coming through
the timber, walking, and herecome single file does.
And I mean, it was like a wholeherd of them, which I was
shocked because blacktail, I'veonly seen you see a doe and
maybe a spike or a doe and twofawns, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Yeah, they're not really a herd animal.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Yeah, there was literally like five does that
came out of the timber, and youcould see them coming through
the viny maples, and like thesun would hit them, and you just
see their face and some of theirbody, and then they'd kind of go
through the shade.
And then they started munchingon my apples, and you could hear
them chewing, and it was justreally cool.
They're smelling around, andthen they all turned around, and
you could see that old buckcoming through the timber, and
(23:11):
the sun was hitting him, and hewas lip curling.
It was I was shaking so hard.
It was like when a bull elk wasscreaming in your face.
It was that kind of shaking, andI mean, plus it was cold, so it
was just like extreme shakes.
And he came in 20 yards, and Ijust absolutely smoked him, and
it was just like clockwork, itwas perfect.
(23:32):
He ran down there, piled up.
I called dad, he came and helpedme, and and then the next year I
had been watching Bucks doingmore scents, doing more feeding,
keeping up on the herd anddifferent stuff.
And then I think at that point Ihad messaged Dave and gotten
kind of some general info aboutlike hey, feeding and just some
general stuff before I took theclass, and that helped me.
(23:55):
And uh, I had a really big thebig one of the biggest fork and
horns I've ever seen in person,not online or anything, but just
in my life, you know.
Huge, really mature Roman-nosedfork and horn with big eye
guards, and he's super tall, notwide, but narrow and really
tall.
And uh he actually came in onOctober, I think it was like
(24:18):
22nd, it was right before arain.
So Dave has talked about that onthe podcast.
There was literally a stormcoming in, and I I saw it, and I
was like, man, if there's a daythat deer are gonna move, maybe
it's right before this rain, youknow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (24:31):
And I was in that stand and he came in to check my
scent, and I smoked him at 20yards.
And unfortunately, I thought Imade an absolute I mean the I
watched the shot go right behindthe shoulder, complete
pass-through, beautiful blood onthe arrow, not bubbles, but r
bright red.
And we ended up I went, gave himlike an hour, hour and a half.
(24:53):
Dad showed up, and we trackedthat buck for man, it was a long
ways.
And we would stop and give himmore time, and he bedded down
and ended up finding that bucklater on, but I I lost him.
He was really unfortunate.
I found him, but it was in stuffthat was so thick, and yeah, it
made it makes you sick.
(25:14):
But I mean, at least there waskind of a closing to the book,
you know.
There was a closing to that.
SPEAKER_03 (25:20):
But you hunt long enough, it's gonna happen at
some point, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
And that that's what was hard was it wasn't like, oh
shoot, it was a gut shot oranything.
I mean, it looked so perfect,and he ran on a dead sprint,
like did the kick, everything.
And I mean, I I was like, deaddeer, he's dead on his feet.
You know, I was listening tohear him crash and he didn't,
but I ended up finding thatbuck.
(25:45):
And then this year, it was justit was a huge blessing.
You know, my wife is telling mebecause I got my bowl on
September 9th, I got the buck onSeptember 1st, so I was done.
And so my wife was telling me, Ithink, I think God wants you
elsewhere this season, and I'mlike, man, I don't know.
Like, I gotta get a set for you,honey.
Like, I need to get from my dad.
(26:06):
You're not hearing from God.
Yeah, yeah.
That was he's just blessed methis year so much.
I mean, all glory to him.
Because I mean, for it to happenon opening morning, and I'd
watch this buck the year prior,had kind of found this area,
seen how many bucks were there,and they've really this area
where they're in, it seems likethe summertime there, like
(26:26):
specifically in this kind ofbedding area, like that is their
summertime spot.
Okay.
And so, I mean, during the rutlast year I had cameras there.
I tried running some scents.
I didn't know a lot of thespecifics because I hadn't taken
the class yet, but all I had waslike one fork and horn from like
October 1st through you know therest of the year.
(26:48):
And last year I had a generalrifle tag, so I couldn't archery
hunt this buck that I had oncamera.
I tried to get the multi-dearleftover, but I missed it.
I was on a skid steer and I gotdistracted and I missed it by
like 30, 40 minutes orsomething, you know, and I my
heart just sank.
I looked at down, I was like,I'm not gonna kill that buck.
I know I'm not because he'sgonna be there.
(27:09):
You know, my best chance wasthat archery because they're
there all the time.
And so this year I was like, I'mgetting that multi-dear tag.
And so then you kill it on thefirst yeah, literally.
I was at the door in Sportsman'san hour before they opened.
I had a guy race me to thecounter and I beat him there.
Uh-huh.
And I got to the counter, theywrote my name down.
(27:30):
I mean, I was like, I am gettinglike if I miss this, because I
had put in for special hunts,uh-you know, for rifle like
maybe any ad or some of thehunts back east.
So I was kind of screwed becauseI didn't get the multi-deer.
So I was like, I gotta get thatleftover, you know, multi-deer
text.
I ended up getting it, and itwas just meant to be.
And I had watched this buck fromprobably this spring, put my
(27:56):
cameras out, and then throughthe whole summer, and the more
that I did some of the stuffthat you taught us in the class,
the more he started daylightingand daylighting.
And especially when he was inhis velvet, he would daylight
like all the time.
And then I just knew just likethe Whitetails back easy, as
soon as they shed that velvet,like everything in their mind
changes, you know, and so I wasreally worried about that, but I
(28:18):
just kind of stuck with theprocess, and that morning was
really special.
Like I got up, went in there inthe dark.
I mean, I ended up Dave talksabout like having a scent-free
bag and scent-free everything,and I went to the whole extent
of all that because I was like,if there's one thing, I don't
want to blow this buck out ofhere.
SPEAKER_03 (28:38):
So I ended up going Can I just say that wives love
me for that?
Every time somebody says thatthere's a wife out there going,
Yeah, thanks, Dave.
It's more money they spent, youknow, on it's just on all the
products.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Yeah.
I think it works.
I did everything on the set, Itried to be completely
scent-free as I could, and Iactually was really worried that
I was gonna bump this buck inthe morning because I remember
that happening a lot, and I'vehad it happen around here now,
going to my stands, but backeast for Whitetail, you just
hear them blowing, and that justgod just makes you sick on your
(29:10):
way to the stand.
You're like, Well, there goesthat, you know, because
everything that blow just echoesthrough the through the woods,
yeah.
They know it is and so I got inmy stand, didn't hear anything
blow, so I was like, Oh my gosh,you know, it's a miracle.
And it was actually a there, itwas a real wet morning for
September because it had beenreally dry, and it was just a
(29:31):
misty, like that beach weather,you know, I just socked in the
fog, the mist.
It was really it was enoughmoisture you can hear it coming
out of the leaves, hitting theground.
And so when it got light out,there was a doe came running
behind me with a fawn, and shewas like on the run.
And I was like, Man, that'sweird.
And then here's this what I Ithink I call him big, I think it
(29:54):
was the forked horn, I call himbig fork or something on my
computer, and he was chasingthat doe with a fawn.
And I don't know if he was justmessing around or he was just a
little just I don't know whatthe deal is, but it was in
September, he was chasing her.
And then he just split off ontothe main trail that kind of goes
to my set.
(30:14):
And he hung around that set.
I mean, I could have shot him 30times.
He just wouldn't leave.
He would sit there and he'd lookaround.
He would look around.
And I mean, it got daylight, andfinally he crept off.
And the stuff that I'm hunting,it's there's a lot of big ferns
there too, and it's brushy andstuff too.
So I mean, as soon as they it'scrazy, as soon as they come out
(30:35):
of that set, they're gone.
I mean, you could see their earsmaybe or see movement, but
that's all you see, you know.
And so the Doe and Fawn left,and then there was just so much
action that morning, it wasinsane for just that one set.
It was like crazy.
I saw it doe and fawn, and thenanother doe came out with two
fawns, and then two spike buckscame out and was harassing her
(30:59):
fawns, just smelling them likethey were rutting up and stuff.
They were just being real ruddyalmost.
It was really weird.
And so they were smelling thosefawns, and then that mama did
not.
Man, when she she was kind oflike 50, 60 yards away, and when
she saw those bucks messing withthose fawns, she was just on a
dead run and she was kickingthose things and chasing.
(31:21):
It was like a circus thatmorning.
All around my stand, they'rerunning through the woods.
I'm like, this is the coolestthing.
I should have videotaped it.
It was so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
It's cool.
SPEAKER_02 (31:30):
And oh man.
SPEAKER_00 (31:31):
That's the coolest thing, I think, for me about set
hunting is just how close youare to these animals.
Yeah, and you get to see allkinds of different stuff like
that happening that you neversee sitting in a clear ever.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Like for sure.
And that was, I think, thebiggest thing I learned about
this season, or the one day Isat in a stand, I I've learned
so much that day was thebehavior.
So my wife, she loves horses, soshe always talks about how they
communicate without sayinganything.
And that day I learned so muchof how deer communicate by just
(32:07):
gestures and stomping theirhooves.
Everything they didn't make apeep out of their mouth, but
they said everything with herears, with her facial
expression.
I mean, just the way they shemoved, she maneuvered.
I mean, there was so muchcommunication there, but it was
not vocal at all.
And so it was really cool towatch all that happen and just
(32:29):
get to see her get mad, youknow, and pin her ears back.
And she ended up kicking the thetail end of one of the spikes,
and he tucked his tail and hetook off and he was gone.
And I was like, Man, this is socool, you know.
Thank you, Lord.
And they were sitting there, shewas still chasing around, and
she's kind of feeding a littlebit.
And then I think it was aboutsometime 7:30-ish, maybe, I
(32:51):
think.
And in the dark part of thetimber, there's an area that's
really dark, and so it's gotsome viny maple and some fur in
there, and it's just just dark.
And that doe did something thatI didn't expect her to do
because the wind was perfect.
It hit me in the face, and thatdoe blew like she got spooked.
(33:11):
And the other spike and herlittle fawns kind of took off in
the brush, and then they turnedand were looking back towards
that dark area in the timber.
I thought, what the heck?
I said she didn't smell me.
You know, there's no way shesmelled me.
The wind's great.
I'm way up here in a tree, 20feet.
And then I pulled up mybinoculars, and all I saw was
the brown tines coming throughthe ferns.
(33:32):
Oh, and then it would disappear,and then you would see them
again.
And they all it was like theyall stepped back to get out of
the way of him, and she was justdidn't let her fawns go over
there.
The spike was really scared.
SPEAKER_03 (33:46):
Funny when you bring a dominant buck into the
picture, how the mood of thewhole place just changes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
It was insane to watch.
SPEAKER_03 (33:54):
I mean, they just it's kind of a fearful respect
that they have for that dominantbuck, you know, because they all
just kind of back off, and it'swhatever he wants to do, he's
gonna do everybody else.
You're just a spectator rightnow.
SPEAKER_02 (34:06):
You know what I mean?
Yep.
It was that was really cool towatch.
I mean, I've never seen nothinglike that.
They all did exactly what youjust said, and he came in right
down one of the major trailsthat they have, right where the
big forking horn was, isactually, and I got to watch
that forking horn kind of seewhere he kind of it was crazy to
kind of watch him, he would kindof zigzag through the timber.
(34:28):
So, like hit I don't know ifthere was a trail that he was
specifically on or if he wasjust checking stuff, or you
could tell how sneaky he wasgoing through the it was really
cool to watch him, and then hejust finally disappeared.
But the big buck came in, he gotright behind a tree, and I was
like, Okay, I'm just gonna takemy time.
I know my set's at 20 yards, sojust a piece of cake shot.
(34:51):
And so when he got behind thattree, I figured I'd just draw
back.
So it was a few minutes sittingthere just watching him, and
like you guys have talked about,don't just stare at the horns
because that's the more my heartstarts pounding, you know.
I'm just trying to look at thebody because once I saw the
horns, I'm like, oh my gosh.
He and the last picture I hadgotten, I've had terrible luck
(35:11):
with my cell cam this a coupleof them this summer.
I don't know if it's becausethey're finally getting old.
They work great for like a yearor two, yeah, and then I've just
had a lot of problems.
So it was a bummer that mycamera died like four days
before season.
So I just went in there like thelast picture I had was him with
bloody white horns, and it was adaylight picture, but I didn't
(35:33):
know if he had daylight anymore,went nocturnal.
And so it was, yeah, I was myheart was pounding.
He went behind the tree.
I drew back, and I just took mytime and just made the perfect
shot.
And when I when the arrow, theLuminoch blew through him,
completely complete passthrough, heart shot.
I watched as he ran by my stand,and when he's running, his legs
(35:57):
were wobbling, like he was deadon his feet.
That's and then I watched himpile up right there.
That was a good feeling just towatch him die.
I mean, there's nothing worsethan like, man, I don't know
where I hit him yet.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think that's where theLuminocs just help you to show
you where your, you know, whereyour shot placement was.
And then first person I call wasmy wife, and I'm like, he's
down.
And we made a funny bet becauseI had a mustache for like a
(36:20):
while, and I love my mustache.
And everybody else at church waslike, dude, I'm gonna grow a
mustache too.
And it's been heck of aninspiration.
And she's like, I really loveyour goatee.
And so she's like, If you killthat big buck, how about you
shave your mustache?
And I'm like, the odds.
I'm like, okay, all right.
And then that night I'm just athome, just you know, shaving
(36:41):
that mustache right off.
It's gone.
SPEAKER_04 (36:43):
Well worth it though.
SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
Yeah, it was so how far, so 20-yard shot, how far
was your set from the gate fromwhere you walked in?
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Probably 300 yards.
Okay, not far at all.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
Not far at all.
Yeah, yeah.
It's amazing, just as an aspectof this of those big bucks,
yeah, are right there.
Yep.
If the good habitat is there,they're there.
SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
Yep.
And a lot of misnomers that wejust talked about here.
He said all summer I'm gettingdaylight pictures of him.
SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Those bucks, if they're in the right habitat,
they're gonna daylight just asmuch as the dew out there.
They're not just nocturnal likeeverybody thinks, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
And I tell guys at the seminars in the classes and
whatnot, they're moving aroundin that thick stuff all day
long.
All day.
And the fact that you weregetting pictures all summer
long, it wasn't just a one-timething.
No, it was like, okay, all daylong.
And then he shows up openingmorning, he's not in velvet
anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (37:42):
No, he was dark horned, which I love.
Yeah, which I which I was like.
SPEAKER_03 (37:47):
That's beautiful, beautiful bugs, just those
chocolate, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Those chocolate.
SPEAKER_03 (37:50):
You could tell he'd been raking on the furs.
SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:52):
But yeah, you could see that that hey, it it doesn't
matter, they're not nocturnalany more than the does are.
Yeah, you know, it's true.
It's where you're looking.
So there's that misnomer, andthen like Aaron was saying, just
all these things that we've beentaught or told rather, finding
out that they're not all true.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
And it's no knock against anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
It's just sometimes we take things at face value
because somebody else said it,or somebody else who Well, we've
talked about this, that and wewe've actually brought it up at
a c in some of the classes ofthese are things that we learn
from our dads, our grandfathers.
Yeah, yeah, you know, or thespecial people we respect Man
(38:39):
that's in our life that'steaching us.
And we don't want what we'resaying, this is just a different
way of hunting.
But it's not to say thateverything that they taught you
was bad, it's just this is adifferent way.
And to let go of something fromsomeone that you've yeah so
respected, and just be like,Okay, I'm not going to do it
(39:01):
this way, I want to try it thisway.
SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
Right, right.
But I mean, at the same time, ifyou're doing something that has
not produced the results thatyou've desired, change it.
Yeah, and you've been doing itfor year after year after year,
and you're no closer to havingsuccess with that particular
whatever it is that you'reimplementing into your hunt,
well, you know, common sensewould cause you to think, okay,
(39:24):
well, maybe I need to dosomething different.
So, but no, that's that'sawesome.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
So thinking about you said you were using some of
the pheromones early.
So, like the Evercom, syntheticEvercomm or Dopey or Yep, the
Evercomm was one.
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Okay, then just you know, a regular dopey, not a
like a ester.
No estrus, yeah.
No estrus.
I think that was a big one.
Okay.
And so just doing that really, Iwas telling Dave, I think the
day that you called and asked todo the podcast and stuff, I was
like, Dave, I couldn't believeit.
I mean, I had pictures of thisbuck.
He I had one picture of himhardhorned and he was bedding
(40:02):
down in front of my camera.
Right.
And I think the thing that helpsthe most too is that the other
deer, the does, and even thefawns, which is super important,
are are PN and maybe betting fora few minutes and get up and go
move.
Right.
They're leaving that beddingpheromone there for you and
replenishing it.
Yeah, nothing more natural thanthat.
SPEAKER_03 (40:21):
It's funny when you start realizing scents really do
work when they're used thecorrect way.
Yep, it's a game changer.
It's an absolute game changer.
I mean, you found this buck, youdid the locating, you found this
buck, and then you were able tocreate an illusion that kept
that buck coming back, not onlycoming back, but the fact that
he's betting there means that hefeels safe, you know.
(40:44):
This is a place where he's gonnacome in and relax.
Yeah, and that's exactly whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
And it is interesting to thinking about
because it's synthetics, and Iknow a lot of guys with the
change in the laws were worriedabout synthetics and whether or
not they work.
Well, that proves that they'rebuying it, they're they're
believing that that's you know,dophermones that are being left
behind.
Now, did you try to you can'tbait?
(41:12):
So was there anything and theycame in and were feeding around
there that you said was anythingthat you tried to do that maybe
left sense or anything foodrelated or not really.
SPEAKER_02 (41:23):
So I think it helped to the year that we could bait.
I was baiting pretty hard.
Okay, hot and heavy, giving themthe minerals.
So I think it's just a real bigbummer that we can't now because
I think I got to see just in oneyear the health of the herd,
even the small bucks that werelike little forked horns or
little three points.
(41:44):
I mean, I had I have one I callMr.
Krabs, and he was a buck I waslike, man, he'd be hard to pass
up.
I think he looks a little moremature than the buck I shot this
year, like he looks maybe a yearor so older.
But he he blew up in one year,and you know, he was hitting
they were hitting the trophyrock.
But I think the coolest part waswatching the fawns when they're
(42:07):
first born or and the mamahitting the protein and hitting
the salt that first year wecould do that when it was legal,
and I think just thinking thatman, that's actually really good
for him because she just burnedall these nutrients and
different stuff, having thisbaby.
And I think, man, if you startlittle bucks like that young, I
mean, think about when they getto four or five years old and
they're gonna be able to do it.
(42:28):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, they'regonna be monsters, yeah.
Either their body or that's whyI tell guys, you're managing a
deer herd.
SPEAKER_03 (42:33):
Yeah, you you really are, and you're experiencing a
call, like we have spots that wehunt year after year after year,
and we've watched these bucksfrom the time that they were
fawns till the time where it'slike, okay, they're on the hit
list this year, you know.
And that's always fun to havethat history with them and being
able to look back and say, okay,I was a part of that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yeah, it's super cool.
SPEAKER_03 (42:54):
And that dough is healthy, and she's popping out
fawns, and certain doughs willpop out just bucks, and certain
doughs will pop out just doughs,you know.
But you're able to keep yourdoughs healthy, and that is key.
That is key to the survival rateof those fawns, to the caliber
of buck that she puts out.
(43:17):
And man, if you can keep youfind a place with a good gene
pool, you want to keep thatplace healthy.
You just want to keep everythingI can to keep them from getting
sick, and even recovering frominjuries.
SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
Absolutely.
I think it was hit by a car, butit didn't kill him.
SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Had a broken leg.
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, and it went in because he went in and I think
it was last December and dumpeda bunch of minerals in, and that
buck came in and started hittingthose minerals and basically
survived those injuries.
That's awesome.
And now we don't have that as anoption anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
Do you think there's a chance that they will allow
that someday, or do you thinkit's over?
SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
I hear guys say it all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
They have reversed it in other states.
SPEAKER_03 (44:00):
Yeah, and I've caught myself saying it as well
that once they take something,we never get it back.
And I don't want to be that kindof Debbie Downer.
Because we we've made some hugestrides this past year with that
game commission.
Yeah, huge strides.
Yep.
I think there's a chance, maybein the future, I'm hoping there
is, because that law was madebased on emotion.
(44:23):
Yeah, there's just flat outemotion.
There's no it's notscientifically based.
It just isn't.
And the guys that think thatbaiting is a slam dunk haven't
baited.
Not at all.
You know, and going back to whatwe were just talking about,
keeping your deer herd healthy,it's so important.
It is, especially down here inSouthwest Washington, where we
(44:45):
were hit hard with that hairloss.
When they still they neverfigured it out, they just
thought it was a hair mite.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Oh no, it's yeah, hair mite.
And the ones I researched thisfor our listeners, it was some
form of a hair mite or flea.
And the ones that survived it,so basically they bred the
immunity to it into theiroffspring.
SPEAKER_03 (45:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
So now the hair loss uh from what it sounds like, it
won't come back because theyhave that the ones that survived
have that immunity to it.
SPEAKER_03 (45:20):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (45:21):
And are able to fight it off.
SPEAKER_03 (45:22):
When we did have it, it decimated our deer herd down
here.
I mean I was talking to guys whowho were going out and they
weren't seeing a single deer allseason.
Guys that were deer killers.
I again I hope it does.
I think the law was made out ofemotion.
I don't think that it there's noscience to back it.
I posted something by TedNugent, who went before the DNR
(45:46):
in Michigan, and made some greatpoints because they took away
baiting there, and you can't useminerals or anything like that.
And he made some spectacularpoints.
And go to my Facebook and you'llsee it.
But you know, this whole CWD.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
It's never been an you said there's never been
black.
There's never been a case.
SPEAKER_03 (46:07):
There's never been a case in blacktail, and the
reason is because blacktail, oneof the main reasons is, and we
kind of said this earlier, isblacktail aren't herd animals.
SPEAKER_00 (46:15):
No, no, and they have such a small range.
SPEAKER_03 (46:17):
Yeah, yeah.
They're they're the core area,their range, and you hear me say
it in the seminars, 51 acres orless.
SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
Yeah.
And as Dr.
Josie Rose, who came on and wedid the whole CWD episode with
her, which was great.
She said blacktail are kind ofthe poster child for not
spreading it because of theirbehavior.
So we'll see.
It's one of those where we needto be active.
And at the time of therecording, it they're open for
(46:45):
setting seasons and regulations.
We need to always take it theopportunity to keep our
feedback.
SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
Right, your congressman.
SPEAKER_00 (46:52):
At all times.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
Yep.
Be the squeaky wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
But getting back.
SPEAKER_03 (46:57):
That's another episode for a different time.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
Yes.
But I mean, it's always good totalk about those topics.
SPEAKER_03 (47:03):
Now let's talk about wolves.
SPEAKER_00 (47:05):
Exactly.
So great.
Do you have a target bug fornext year?
Already?
SPEAKER_02 (47:11):
Yeah, I think it's Mr.
Krabs right now.
And I think this year I kind ofwish I would have had more than
one set.
So I did have some cameras outthis summer, but I just had so
many problems with my camerasthat it kind of had I had two
other sets kind of going, and Ijust had to scratch them.
And then I kind of threw all mywhat would you call that?
(47:32):
Everything in one basket, youknow, on that one buck.
And so, you know, I hear youguys talk, it's kind of a risk
too, because things can happen,things can change, you know, he
gets hit by a car or or someoneelse shoots him, or you know,
Predator gets him.
Or you lose them.
Yeah, I've heard that story.
I mean, things can happen.
So I mean, I kind of I just gotreally blessed this year.
(47:52):
Yes.
And absolutely so I mean it'sstill not too late to go get
some sets going, especially forlike my dad or my wife.
You know, so I'm planning onthis week trying to get out
there and put some of thosescents out and some cameras.
And I just have manual, cheap,muddy cameras that work just
fine.
But uh yeah, I need to get somenew cell cameras and stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (48:14):
When I first started this, they didn't have cell
cameras.
Yeah, it was the string acrossthe path, and it would just trip
and it you'd know what time theanimal was coming by.
You didn't know what it was.
I mean, that's how old I am, youknow.
And so, but yeah, you're sayingI got the old ones.
It's just like, you know what?
Those are that old.
It's a step up from where Istarted.
(48:34):
So, but that's awesome.
Do you got pictures of Mr.
Krabs?
I do have pictures.
Would you mind us if we sendthem to us?
We could post them.
SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
That would be awesome.
You don't have to tell us wherehe's at.
No tell him creek, or yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
Just send me the waypoint and I'll make sure that
nobody goes after him.
SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
Yeah, it's one of those things where and I've
talked to Dave about this.
I've got and just with thissystem, and when you figure out
how to locate.
So I've got three sets that Isort of monitor, but I'm working
one in particular, but I havemultiple shooter bucks.
And so it's almost like, well,gosh, I don't know.
(49:10):
Do I go after this one nextyear?
Do I go after this one?
I think maybe if he blows up,I'll go after him and postpone
going after this.
And it's yeah, it's kind of likeit's a nice problem to have.
It's a nice problem to have.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Yes.
I had seven bucks on this setthis summer.
Last year, I think there weresix, and then I think there was
a new little butt buck or spikeadded to that.
And right on.
They kind of just get a littlebit bigger, you know, if you
were to line them up.
There's the little fork andhorn, there's a little
three-point, there's littlecrabs, Mr.
Krabs, and then the one wecalled Scarface, which I think,
(49:46):
you know, my wife named him thatbecause some of the pictures he
almost had like a shape of aquestion mark on the side of his
face, but he was in a summercoat.
And I I kind of think becausewhen he came out of his summer
coat last year, it wasn't reallythere.
So I don't know if he just kindof had rubbed up against some
stuff, you know, on his summercoat, probably.
Because he definitely didn'thave it this year.
(50:07):
He had some lines on his neck,like you're one buck in here,
just some different kind ofmarkings, you know, with that
summer coat.
But what was interesting, I wastelling you on the phone, is
that last year his smaller forkon the front was on the opposite
side.
So I don't know if that he lookslike the same buck, and that's I
was telling you, you know, I'mlike, man, I I think it is.
(50:29):
Right.
I mean, I haven't seen any morefour points in there with eye
guards, but it was but hisgenetics are still there.
SPEAKER_00 (50:35):
And that's the great thing when you find like with
your what was your buck's name?
Scarface.
The one you got this year.
SPEAKER_02 (50:43):
Scarface, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:43):
Oh, that was Scarface.
Yes.
Okay.
So his genetics, Scarface'sgenetics, are still there.
And yeah, you just kind of lethim grow up, and by the time
that they're to the point whereyou want to shoot them, they've
already passed along thosegenetics.
Yeah.
And so it's almost like findingthose great genetic pockets.
Yep.
(51:03):
And then never telling anybodywhere they're at.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (51:06):
Oh, it's just a kid in a candy store.
It really, really is because youjust get jacked watching them.
It's addicting.
Yeah.
And the fun thing that I like islike, okay, so he we ended the
season last year, he was a smallthree.
You know, and he may be four anda half, he may wait till five
and a half before he makes thatbig bump.
Because typically Blacktailswill make one big jump.
(51:29):
And so like he goes back, he's agood three, maybe 70 inches.
And then you see him the nextyear and he blew up.
Yep.
And then it's just like, oh, themain frame is still there.
You recognize that, but now, youknow, he put on 20 inches or 15
inches, and now he's just like,Oh, yeah, that's awesome.
That kind of surprise is whatyou like when you start going to
(51:51):
your cameras and whatnot.
But that's Mr.
SPEAKER_02 (51:53):
Krabs from last year.
You know, when we were able todo the minerals and the protein
and stuff, listen to yourpodcast talking about making
sure you do always do theprotein and everything with the
minerals.
He from last year to this year,he went from like just a three
by three to like this one beamup here, just went super tall
and forked even.
(52:15):
And then he just got wider andbigger forks.
I mean, he just blew up.
SPEAKER_03 (52:20):
This buck here lucky was always I watched him for
three years before I finallywent in on the fourth year.
But every year he was just a bigthree, with spindly, he was
really wide, but he just didn't,and so I started just pumping
him full of the protein and theminerals and everything, and
then he comes out and now he's afour by three, and he just put
(52:41):
on a ton of mass.
Man, and it was just like, yeah,that's the buck I'm going out.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's always fun like thatwhen you have a history.
So you said that you gotta getthe sets for your wife and your
dad very soon.
So it's happening now.
Yeah, how confident are you thatyou're going to be able to find
bucks for them?
SPEAKER_02 (53:01):
Pretty confident.
Really pretty confident.
I mean, just this year, and thenjust doing the tree stand thing
and then just putting the piecestogether.
I think the coolest thing aboutblacktail hunting and then doing
your class, especially being abass fisherman, our minds don't
kind of work like some salmonfishermen go out there and you
use the same spinners.
(53:21):
Obviously, you're changingcolors and stuff, but when
you're bass fishing, you have tofigure them out.
They're like the fish are alwaysthere, just like the deer,
always in the woods, and there'smore to what you know already,
you know.
So I love to just learn.
I mean, I'll talk to anybody,and I just gather my head just
as much as I can get my headwith information.
(53:41):
So, like when I went to yourclass or talk to anybody that
shot a nice black tail, even ifthey do hunt clear cuts or maybe
they still hunt timber.
I mean, I'm always picking theirbrain about where they like to
bed, the kind of stuff or thatday they shot them, or just
anything like that.
I think it's just the moreknowledge I've just had,
definitely have some moreconfidence now.
(54:02):
And I'm excited for next year,or my wife or dad this year
would be nice to get one of thema buck, too.
Absolutely cool.
SPEAKER_03 (54:09):
Absolutely.
So is your wife gonna shoot itfrom the couch?
That's my question.
SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
Well, not this year.
We're in an apartment, so Imean, we might be shooting
across the Kelso High, you know,the high school might be a
little sketchy.
Right on, right?
Yeah, we moved to apartment, soI mean, it's not too bad, but
yeah, we can't really shoot offthe gutter this year, you know.
That's funny.
SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
Okay, well, I think that kind of wraps it up.
I this has turned into a nicelong episode, so I think our
listeners are gonna be it'll bethe commute to work and then the
commute home that they'll get tolisten to perfect.
That that works out great, butanyway, congratulations on your
buck.
Thanks, Collie.
Beautiful and thank you forcoming on and sharing your story
(54:50):
with everyone because I thinkthat you talk about the Lord
blessed you.
Well, now in turn, I think justsharing that story is you being
able to bless the all thelisteners who are just trying to
learn and how to do this.
Yep, and always appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02 (55:04):
Say a prayer before you go out there, before you're
in your stand for safety andwhile you're in your stand, that
God blesses you with the deer,and and He will.
There you go.
It's the best place to spendtime with Him.
Amen.
So okay.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
Well, thanks for joining us, everyone, and we
will talk to you next week.
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