March 24, 2025 • 37 mins
What separates a good hunter from a great one isn't the size of their harvest – it's their commitment to ethical conduct in every aspect of the hunting experience. Aaron and Dave tackle this crucial topic by examining real situations that test hunters' integrity, from respecting private property boundaries to making the hard choice not to take a shot when legal shooting hours have passed.
Through personal stories and hard-earned wisdom, we explore how the treatment of wildlife goes beyond the harvest moment. We discuss responsible baiting practices that minimize disease transmission risk, especially regarding Chronic Wasting Disease concerns. When deer make nose-to-nose contact at concentrated bait piles, they exchange bodily fluids – but spreading minerals and bait over larger areas can significantly reduce this risk.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when we examine how hunting ethics intersect with family values and teaching moments. One member of our pro staff had his target buck – a 130-class blacktail they call "The Frenchman" – walk into range just six minutes after legal shooting hours two years running. Despite the temptation, he held fire, demonstrating the character we hope to inspire in all hunters.
We also tackle the sometimes thorny issue of sharing hunting grounds and encountering other hunters. Whether discovering someone's tree stand or meeting others at a popular access point, how we handle these interactions reflects our commitment to the hunting community. As Dave wisely notes, "It's just a deer" – no animal is worth compromising your ethics, risking your hunting privileges, or damaging relationships within the hunting community.
Ready to become part of the solution? Join conservation organizations like the Blacktail Deer Foundation today. These groups advocate for hunters' interests year-round at the political level, ensuring our voices are heard when crucial decisions about hunting regulations are made.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave, sogetting into our topic for this
week ethical hunting.
We want to talk about whatmakes an ethical hunter a good
guy hunter.
So we've had a couple ofinstances this year.
You had to report someone whowas hunting illegally on private
property and we got chattingwith the game warden.
(00:23):
Right right, and so just betweenthat and, I think, just some of
our interactions, we've justcome across people that make you
wonder.
So we want to talk about withour particular community.
We've just tried to make surethat we're working with really
good guys.
We're promoting ethical, lawfulhunting and just what's ethical
(00:45):
in certain situations.
So we'll get into differenttopics here, but I want to start
out with a responsibletreatment of animals.
What's ethical when you'redealing with animals?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's a great question and I think that you
need to preface all of that withhow you treat these animals is
how the non-hunter oranti-hunter is going to perceive
all hunters.
Yeah.
And so we owe it to that animal,as well as to those that are
following behind us, to keepthis tradition going, because we
are threatened with losing ourhunting rights and privileges
(01:15):
and stuff like that that.
We owe it to everybody outthere to be ethical in
everything that we do, from theharvesting to the transporting,
to respecting property lines andall of that stuff.
But when it comes to ethicalhuntings and how to treat the
animal, I think a good, forinstance, is how we're
approaching CWD and the threatof CWD, and how we keep our deer
(01:38):
herds healthy and that kind ofstuff?
And if you're baiting them, howdo you bait ethically?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Which includes putting out the minerals.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Which includes putting out minerals, yes, so
that can be a year-roundactivity.
Absolutely, and we do a lot ofminerals.
As far as our group, we haveindividuals that don't do any,
and then we have some that justmake up for everybody, yeah, and
they're dropping mineralseverywhere they go, and both are
good, both are fine.
It's whatever you want to do,but if you're going to do
(02:06):
minerals or if you're going todo bait, do it in a responsible
way, and that's something thatmost guys don't understand.
When we say, do it in aresponsible way, they're like
well, what are you talking about?
How do you bait responsibly?
Or how do you do mineralsresponsibly?
Well, the reason CWD is on topof mind with everybody is
they're thinking that it couldcome over here.
To the west side of Washington,to the west side of the Cascades
(02:27):
, yeah, and what people don'trealize is how that is spread
through the prions and it's bodyfluid.
Yeah, and that includes thenose-to-nose contact, because
they're constantly licking theirnose.
So, when deer go nose-to-n nose, they are exchanging bodily
fluids.
Yeah.
So if you're doing a bait or amineral especially guys that are
(02:49):
baiting don't just dump it outin one pile.
You need to spread it out.
You need to spread it out overthree, four, five yards and that
way there's no or you minimizeany nose to nose contact.
When we say responsible baiting, that's exactly what we're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, and depending on how much with the mineral,
we'll drop it in a line like atleast six feet long so that they
can be eating in separate spots.
But I want to point everybodyback to if you want to really
understand and really know aboutCWD and everything about it,
especially now that they'retaking community input at the
(03:26):
state level because they'remaking a decision about whether
or not in Washington we can baitgoing forward Go back to
episode 10.
It's our CWD episode with DrJosie Rose.
She is a board-certified vetfrom the Oregon Zoo and she gave
us all of the information wecould ever need to know for cwd
as far as to really understandhow it's spread and to be
(03:49):
educated.
And that goes back to being anethical hunter I think it's just
being an educated hunter.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, you know, exactly, exactly and in all
honesty, aaron, that should be,you know, one of our top listen
to episodes.
I mean yeah granted, I want themall to be listened to a lot,
you know, because I think we putout a lot of good information,
but that one there, especiallynow, with it being the timing so
critical, yeah, that should beone that we should all be up on.
You know, and why do you spreadstuff out?
(04:17):
You know why, what is theimportance of that, or what is
the significance of that, andhow does that affect me?
You know, and if they you knowsome guys are if they take away
bait and I don't care, itdoesn't affect me, well, that's
fine, but not everybody is youand even if you don't bait, a
lot of like what we do is theminerals right, and then you're
gonna be very important forwarding off disease and making
(04:40):
them strong and healthy.
So it goes beyond just yeah,it's a dating it's just the
start of the downhill slide ofthings, because then you're
going to get into scents andpheromones, because those are
bodily fluids and it's like,well, no, then those get
outlawed.
Some states don't even allowsynthetics pheromones or urines
and stuff, and yeah, you startgetting real limited on it and
(05:03):
then you're taking a lot of thework and the determination of
someone who says this is how I'mgoing to draw them in, which is
what I do.
You know I have a dog in thefight.
This is how I do it, you know,with pheromones and scents and
everything.
Well then, you know, guys, well, you're just going to have to
do it like the rest of us and goout there and beat the brush
and everything.
Well, guys, come on.
(05:23):
Not everybody has that timecapability, not everybody has
that physical capability, andjust because you're limited on
those I have Lyme's disease.
I can't do the things I used todo and, in all honesty, I get
it.
I used to be the guy that wouldbackpack in and do all that
stuff and I loved it, and I'mnot taken away from that, but
(05:43):
I'm unable to do that physicallynow.
So don't punish someone simplybecause they're physically
unable to do the same thing youare.
What.
I would say to you is enjoy itwhile you can, because your body
only has so many hunts left init.
We were all young once.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So you had touched on how we're being perceived and
when you say hunter and Iactually lived, actually had a
picture and they said theylabeled it as a sheep and it was
a mountain goat it was like,yeah, you guys really don't know
(06:31):
anything about the outdoors andI, anyway, I saw this, but you
can't really.
We have to take the high groundas far as, like, I can't mock
someone for not knowing thedifference between a mountain
goat and a sheep in a farm,right?
So it's, how are you speakingto people and to educate them?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, and see, that's the hard thing, because I think
that we've been brainwashed bysociety in a certain way, of us
against them.
If we look at a lot of areas inour society, in our culture, we
see that it's you againstsomebody else or your group
pitted against.
Pit it against somebody else oryour group pit it against this
group.
And I mean, we see it inpolitics, we see it in, and this
would definitely fall intopolitics and at the same time,
(07:13):
it would fall into hobbies, youknow.
I mean there's a lot ofpolitical facets to this whole
thing, and to think that it'sjust confined to this little
well, we're going to lose ourhunting rights.
People are you got to look atthe bigger picture.
It's more than that.
We're going to lose not onlyour hunting rights, we're going
to lose our gun rights.
Yeah, I mean, it's just thestepping stone into the next,
(07:34):
into the next, into the next,you know, and so we need to
educate.
When we're talking to peoplethat are either anti-hunters or
don't know much about hunting,we have to educate.
And I think of my wife's family.
So she's from California, herwhole side of her family, on her
dad's side, is all fromCalifornia and they weren't
hunters or anything like that,and they had in their mind a
(07:56):
very vivid picture of what theythought hunting was all about
and about how hunters are as faras the lesser, uneducated, the
farm boy.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Hillbilly regnits.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, you know, and it's not that at all there are
very, very, very smart people,and a good hunter is always a
conservationist.
That's what I found.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I want to actually talk about conservation groups.
So we just recently found outabout the Blacktail Deer
Foundation and have becomemembers, and we want to
encourage everybody to becomemembers, especially a lot of and
whether or not you're ablacktail hunter there's the
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
there's Mule Deer.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Foundation, which the Blacktail Deer Foundation is an
offshoot.
Find the conservation group.
The Blacktail Deer Foundationis an offshoot.
Find the conservation group the.
National Wild Turkey FoundationFederation Federation, find
your group and join.
You know, pay that fee and joinup, because they're the ones
(09:08):
who are going to go to yourstate capitals and advocate on
your behalf.
Yep, you can go and talk to thecommittee who's making the
decisions based on seasons andwhether or not you can pay it
and making all these decisions,but they're going to package
that well, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, they're in the ear of that politician all the
time.
Yeah.
You know, and that's what wewant.
We want them in their ear, wewant them to be the squeaky
wheel.
We want them, you know, ifbeing annoying is what gets it
so that he hears our message orshe hears our message, then
that's what we need.
But we need people to supportthem, to support these
conservation groups and stuff.
(09:36):
And yeah, now more than ever,more than ever, you know, we
really need each other.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
And so my suggestion reach out to them, Not only join
, but I know that there's verylimited local chapters in
Washington and, I believe,Oregon as well for the Blacktail
Deer Foundation and I hopefullywill be talking to them soon
about getting a local chapterhere up and running.
But we work with guys all overthe state and that's something
(10:04):
that's of interest to you tohelp build that community for
defending our rights and reallychanging the perception of
hunters.
Reach out to them, startworking on that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So next thing I want to talk about is the safe aspect
of it.
There's not only knowing whereyour bullet and arrow are going,
what's your backdrop which,it's interesting, a lot of gun
guys are always.
You know they're thinking aboutwhat's my backdrop, you know
where's this bullet going, butwhen you get out in the woods
that can go out the window.
(10:38):
The excitement can cause thatto go out the window.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And I think a lot of that's got to do with guys not
seeing or having a lot ofopportunities at filling their
tags, and so when they get theopportunity, there's a mentality
that comes over them.
That's like I need to takeadvantage of this.
I may not get another one, andso they're willing to sacrifice
a little bit of safety to makeit happen.
Yeah.
And the reality is, is thatthat's when bad things happen
(11:04):
and bad things can turn intopermanent things, and that's not
just with the actual shot.
I mean, guys do that all thetime.
We'll get into private propertyversus public lands, you know,
and guys will do that all thetime with private property, and
I myself have been guilty ofthat as well, you know.
But you know 55 now, andlooking back and realizing, oh,
that wasn't very smart.
You know, but you know 55 now,and and looking back and
realizing, oh, that was justthat wasn't very smart, you know
(11:27):
, and if it were my property,would I have acted the same way?
Yeah.
You know.
So there's, there's.
I mean, ethics are somethingthat we deal with every day, and
it's not just confined tohunting, but the public sees and
is watching hunters, and andthat's because it's so visible.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, you know, it really brings in the phrase of
being above reproach.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It does, it does.
But you know, someone getsbusted for poaching.
Yeah, and it's on the news.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
It's on the news.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, and it's like, well, they lost their rig or
they have this poaching ring oryou know, and it's just like, oh
my gosh.
But a thousand guys ethicallyharvest an animal and do
everything and you never hearabout that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You don't hear about the thousand who do it right.
You hear about the one guy whodoes it wrong, right.
And so, fortunately for us, theway we create our sets, and
that is something that goesthrough my mind when I create my
set Where's my bullet going?
And I'm not going to create aset.
In fact, last year, two yearsago I guess now, my first year
hunting I was in a less thanoptimal setting direction.
(12:30):
But to be in the perfect place,I would have been firing into a
direction that I shouldn't beand I knew that.
So that changed everything Iwas going to do.
So second part about safety inall situations is remember your
family.
You know we had one of our guyswent to bootcamp, slipped and
fell a hundred feet, somethinglike that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, in the snow, down a rock wall and into a lake
.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, and not necessarily being dumb, but
those things happen.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Just hazardous conditions and he just happened
to take a bad step, and that'swhat happened.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And Dylan, we're still glad you're with us.
The world would be not nearlyas fun without you.
Absolutely, but it's one ofthose things and when talking to
him he talked about that youknow he's got a newborn baby
girl.
Be thinking about where you'regoing and what's your exit
strategy.
Can I communicate when I'm inhere by myself?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and my son is a great example of that.
He's indestructible.
Well, you know, you're at thatage, I mean he's in his 20s and
everything, and I was the sameway.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, we all were.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It's the adventure side of this that really appeals
to him.
Let's go backpacking in andlet's elk hunt and deer hunt and
all this other stuff, andthat's fine, that's great.
I wish I could do that.
I wish that my body would allowme to do that.
But I get the adventure side ofit.
But that doesn't mean that youhave to be unsafe or ignorant of
what could happen.
Now I'm not saying be negativeabout everything.
Well, what if we get this?
What if we did this?
What I'm saying is be prepared.
(14:07):
That's what I'm saying.
Be prepared with an exit, likeyou said, an exit strategy If
something does happen.
Dylan happened to have a phoneon him.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And it's not like it was 20 years ago, you know you
got those, even if you're out ofcell range.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, there is so much out there right now to keep
you safe as far as equipmentand it's not big bulky equipment
anymore either.
I mean it's stuff that fits inyour pocket, and all of this
stuff invest in it.
Yeah.
Invest in it for not just thesafety of your well-being, but
for the mental safety and healthof your family, because they're
(14:41):
going to worry about you.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I remember my first year going up in the
ladder stand and everything, butI had my plan in place with you
guys.
If I don't reach out to you bythis time, yeah, send help.
Try to figure it out.
Fortunately, actually, I endedup getting cell coverage.
I upgraded my phone and I,actually I ended up getting cell
coverage.
I upgraded my phone and Imiraculously, all of a sudden,
(15:04):
had cell coverage.
But this last year, when Ihunted, I didn't have any cell
coverage and iPhones had a newsatellite deal where you could
text.
That didn't work all the timeand I would have to walk out of
the woods, get in my car anddrive three, four miles to get
to a cell range.
And yeah, it's one of those youwant to just be thinking ahead
(15:26):
of what's my contingency plan ifsomething were to go wrong?
And I think about okay, if I'vetripped and I can't walk, am I
going to be able to drag myselfout of the woods to the road and
flag down a car?
I going to be able to dragmyself out of the woods to the
road and flag down a car, or doI need to figure out how I'm
going to stay here overnight, myground, blind, or something
like that?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, just thinking those things ahead, you
know, because we all havefamilies.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And here's the first and most basic one it's easy to
get turned around in the woods.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And all of a sudden you're not on the finger ridge
you thought you were on, oryou're a mile off of where you
thought you were.
And yeah, I mean it can turn.
I won't say desperate, but itcan turn bad, real fast yeah.
And you need to have a way tocommunicate.
You need to have a way to reachsomebody.
And they need to be able toreach you as well.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So moving along knowing about the laws,
regulations and following them,and we'll get into talking about
property and public versusprivate and all of that.
But when we were speaking withthe game wardens I asked him hey
, so I'm a fairly new hunter.
What are some mistakes that newhunters make?
What are just some commonthings?
And he said it's not so muchthat there's a lot of mistakes
(16:38):
that new hunters make.
He said the biggest deal ispeople are following 99% of the
laws and they fudge that last 1%when they feel like they need
to, or, you know, maybe taking ashot a few minutes too late in
the evening or things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
From the road when nobody is around?
From the roads, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So we had one of our pro staff.
His target buck came in sixminutes after shooting light, so
basically six minutes too late.
He could not legally shoot that.
He could have fudged.
It got not an unethical shotbecause he couldn't clearly see,
but also breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Because it would have been too late.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And that takes a lot of restraint.
So hats off to you, jimmy.
I know he's talking about youand I got to be honest.
That buck is called theFrenchman, that buck is boy,
that's a big buck yeah he's inthe 130s and that's a hard thing
to do.
But I mean hats off to him forhaving the character to say you
(17:42):
know what I need to make it?
I owe it to that deer to makean ethical shot and I have to
live with myself knowing that Idid fudge.
And some people are fine withthat yeah, that doesn't bother
them.
But being a father and mybiggest responsibility is to my
family, to my kids, what theysee me do, they're gonna mimic
yeah you know, and so it's like,well, no, I, I live with that,
(18:05):
and so I try to always be aperson of of character and and
uh, good ethics when I'm outthere.
But it's not easy all the time.
When you're given a situationlike that, it's like that's only
six minutes, you know uh-huhyeah and I mean it's a buck of a
lifetime for a lot of guys andit's like, well, no, jimmy hats
off yeah that took some mentalstrength there willing to wait
another year yeah, yeah beforeand this is year two that he's
(18:29):
that that buck has done that tohim yes
Speaker 1 (18:31):
twice so yeah, so it's understanding and observing
harvest rules and and baglimits and you know point
minimums and and all that andseasons and not you're out elk
hunting maybe modern elk andthat big buck walks out in front
of you.
It's well, it's only a day lateand I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No one is gonna see me yeah, I can pull it out at
night.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We've all had that temptation and see and that, but
that's that was what that gamewarden was talking about.
It's a day early, a day late.
It's trying to fudge those.
And we don't, we just don't.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I don't need that kind of fame, I don't need to be
on the news.
You know, and that's exactlywhat happens, and you know the
repercussions of that is youcould lose that hunting
privilege, and it is a privilege.
You could lose that huntingprivilege for a number of years.
You know, if you do get caughtand if you're a father, then you
got to explain that to yourkids.
Well, how come?
How come we're not goinghunting?
How come you're not hunting,dad?
(19:28):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And then, well, it's not.
You got to relive thatembarrassment, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, I broke the law you know it was interesting
when I first started.
I and I mean it made totalsense, but it took like really
I've seen the law when I wasreading through the regs a
couple years ago.
You can't just shoot an animaland just leave it there like I
don't want to crawl down in thatravine and go collect my
harvest.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You can't do that, or they'll cut off the horns and
and leave, yeah and leave therest, I just want horns and
backstrap and whatnot.
That kind of stuff, stuff, just, oh, that just grinds my gears.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But that's one of those things where I didn't
realize that you couldn't dosomething like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh, oh, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And so I was like oh, it's one of those, and I think
this whole, like what we'retalking about, it's just really
knowing the laws.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Or the regs and really understanding them,
because there might be stuffthat, yeah, you might be
surprised.
Oh, I didn't realize that Icouldn't do that and you know
that was one of the things withtagging, you know, attaching
your license to the deer antlerbefore you start walking out of
the woods.
We started.
You know DJ was helping meright and we started dragging
(20:44):
just a little ways.
He's like oh wait where's yourlicense?
You need to put that on therenow and before.
I mean, it wasn't like you getout to your car and nope, you
got to do it right now.
And he showed me and you knowyou cut out the date and then
how to attach it, where toattach it, and it was like, okay
, that was helpful.
But if I'd been by myself Imight have just dragged the
(21:05):
thing out and not had any ideas.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And see, that's it right there.
The game warden doesn't acceptignorance as an excuse.
You know, because everybody'sgoing to give him that Well, I
didn't know.
But guys, don't realize, it'syour responsibility to know,
it's your responsibility.
It's not the game warden'sresponsibility to tell you.
It's your responsibility toknow.
That guy that shot that buck infront of my wife and I was on
(21:29):
private property and I told himfive, six times it's on private
property.
He goes well, it's not posted.
And I kept telling him in thestate of Washington it doesn't
have to be posted.
And it didn't slow him.
The guy's wife was literallycrying.
She was crying and he actuallymade her get out and shoot that
buck and I was just like whatkind of experience is that for
(21:52):
her?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And we talked about that with a family affair in
that situation Asha was talkingabout that, but they're going to
hold and this is where itreally gets down to being an
ethical hunter, because peoplemight be learning how to hunt
from you, right, right.
That memory is going to play inher mind every time, but she's
the one who broke the law byshooting the animal Right.
(22:13):
Well, it doesn't cost himanything.
She's the one who's going toget cited, so I'm willing to
fudge because you're the onewho's going to get cited.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So, eh, I'm willing to fudge, because you're the one
who's going to get busted.
You're the one pulling thetrigger.
How?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
unethical, Like that's kind of a, that's just a
crappy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I mean if your wife is crying because she doesn't
want to shoot this buck thatyou're trying to make her shoot.
I mean, do you think she wantsto go hunting anymore?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, so much for winning people over.
Exactly.
So you know there's knowingweapons, and are you on public
land versus private land?
And if it's public land, likesierra pacific or yeah, you have
access to it, but what are therules governing access you?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
know we all understand, or no, or no, e-bike
, or you know, is it walk onlyCan I get a pass, a permit to do
this.
Do I need one to walk in?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Is it closed for fire danger?
Yeah there's so much to know,yeah and you have to observe
those because they'll bust youfor it.
But it's just as long as youknow ahead of time, you can
avoid all of that.
The last thing I want to talkabout is there's a lot of
hunters out there.
That the last thing I want totalk about is there's a lot of
(23:23):
hunters out there.
And how do you work with otherhunters and not against?
And so I'm thinking about, youknow the thought that popped
into my head.
So we're hunting sets and oneof mine.
Well, you have sets on amainline and I have sets on a
mainline.
Well, I go to this one andthere are six other rigs already
parked at the gate when I showup and I I would do more of an
(23:45):
afternoon hunt, but six rigs allparked there, right, right.
So why don't you talk about ifthere's, if there's six guys or
six groups all showing up at 4am?
How do you handle thatsituation?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's a really good question, aaron, and I think
that every area is different,because every area is a
different size.
I can think of one spot that Iused to go in and hunt that if
there were two rigs there, itwas already one guy too many,
just because there was notenough acreage there that you
were not going to either bumpinto another hunter or bump
(24:21):
their animal, and so you don'twant to cork anybody on their
hunt.
You know what I mean.
That's just.
That's just.
You don't want anyone to do itto you, so you should do it to
others.
That's just common courtesy, andif I'm the last one there, well
, I'm the one that's going toleave you know, if I'm the first
one there and then typicallyyou know, I'm going to hey
(24:44):
introduce myself and say this iswhat I plan on doing and
everything like that, and I'llleave it up to that guy to see,
because I don't own the woods,you know, and I can just hope
that he's going to be ethical.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It's a shared space.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, and say, hey, you know what, you were here,
I'm going to let you have it,and so, and sometimes they do
that, sometimes they don't, butI'm not going to stoop to
becoming that guy.
That's Too bad.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, the guy who hunted that buck on the private
property because he was justflat out rude to you.
And my wife he tried to extenda bit of an olive branch Right
After warning him, he was stilla jerk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And it goes back to what we were talking about
earlier the moment, theexcitement in the moment, took
over.
He kept saying it's not posted,it's not posted.
And I kept telling him itdoesn't matter, in the state of
Washington it doesn't have to be, but the excitement.
It was a sizable buck.
Yeah.
And he just the excitement.
He just would not listen toreason and guys I mean
(25:40):
ultimately the guys that havecome to the in-person classes
and the online classes and theseminars.
You've heard me say this beforeand some guys get offended when
I say this, but here's thereality of it.
It's just a deer.
Yeah.
It's just a deer.
Okay, I can teach guys all daylong on how to get big trophy
(26:03):
record book bucks in front ofthem, so don't be thinking
that's your only opportunity.
If you seek out people who aresuccessful and that want to
teach, you'll have opportunitiesat other bucks.
It's just the way it is.
It's only a deer.
Why would you risk thefinancial punishment, the
(26:23):
material punishment, thephysical punishment of losing
your license, and all of thatfor a deer?
Yeah, you know I understand theexcitement.
I do, I really do.
I was there.
Well, I'm on the other side ofthat now and it's like no guys,
it doesn't have to be like thatyou know, and as far as gates
(26:44):
and whatnot, I've gone to mainlines and there's been six other
rigs parked here.
I know that that main line goesout there for miles.
Yeah.
And I know what I'm huntingversus what they're hunting and
I've gone in those and neverseen those guys and I didn't
either.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I mean, I walked in and I actually had three guys
came out and it looked likefather, son and grandfather.
Three generations.
The only thing that annoyed meabout them is so they had their
rifles.
They had a mount on the frontof their bike so that their
rifles were on the front butpointing like left to right type
of thing.
Yeah.
It wasn't pointing straight up.
They all three rode by me withtheir rifle barrels pointed at
(27:26):
me, and I about came unglued forthat aspect because it was just
stupid.
But then I'm like okay, who'sthe idiot who designed that?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's like we're all looking for some kind of the
next new and latest and greatestthing that helps you do
whatever, whether it's carryyour weapon in or haul your
animal out, or or keep you warmlonger or dry or whatever.
But you know, like I said,being ethical is a 24-hour job.
We're always, as hunters, we'realways having to be on top of
(28:00):
it.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, and it's it was .
At the moment I wasn't quitesure that I could handle it
really well, uh-huh.
And so I'm new to hunting, butI'm a gun guy and I've been
Right, I've had guns years, grewup shooting all of that, and so
it's always been drilled intomy head, though-.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, muzzle control.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Muzzle control and it just to like ride by and not
really even be thinking about it.
And I know the guns wereunloaded.
I hope the guns were unloadedJust for their own safety.
It's like why would you ridearound with a bicycle Walking in
and out of the woods?
My weapon isn't loaded.
Just until I get to my set setand then I load my rifle.
(28:43):
I could slip, I could fall, youknow.
Going back to the, rememberingI got a family.
Well, I'm going to shoot thedeer at my set.
I'm not going to shoot the deeron my.
I could potentially see a deerwalking and I have to my set.
But that's just a decision.
I don't want to walk arounduneven ground with a loaded
weapon ready to shoot.
(29:03):
So, anyway, it was just one ofthose where let it slide and,
yeah, I didn't know how I couldat the in the moment I was just
a little more irritated thanthan anything, so I just let it
slide and stuff.
But but thinking about, we'resharing the forest and we just
recently had someone who's inone of our, who was in our
online class, mention that hewent out looking for some spots
(29:23):
and saw a feeder out there andwondered who might that be?
Maybe potentially someone fromone of our classes who had put
out something, or a randomperson trying to draw deer into
the area.
You never know, but we rarelycatch anybody walking by our
cameras just because of wherewe're hunting.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I haven't had a person on my camera in probably
three, four years now and I'mnot that far off a main line,
you know, at any of my sets andstuff, so but it's just the
habitat that we're in.
But yeah, they asked if we knewof up in that area where they
had found that.
And I would say this guys, ifyou stumble across a tree stand
(30:03):
or a ground blind, do the rightthing and just go the other
direction.
Yeah, let them have that spot.
There's plenty of deer out there.
There's plenty of I won't saythere's plenty of elk, but
there's plenty of deer out thereto share and whatnot.
Don't cork somebody else.
I've had people come up and saythat they found a tree stand
and they went up and they sat init for hours.
Well, that may be fine and goodand you think you didn't hurt
(30:24):
anyone, but the reality is isthe guy who set up that tree
stand.
He's been prepping that spotfor months and it's like he's
done all this labor to clear,shooting lanes and putting out
whether he's putting out bait orputting out sands or whatever
he's doing to draw those deer in.
Or maybe he's doing to drawthose deer in, or maybe he's
just hunting a travel corridor,but either way, he is the one
who's put the labor into thisand you're robbing him of that,
(30:46):
uh, and trying to steal it fromhim by harvesting, you know, the
buck that he knows that's inthere, or bucks and stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
just there's plenty of deer out there.
You can blow out his spot ifyou get spotted right right deer
.
So I actually had and it wasduring elk, it was elk modern
and it was right before.
I think it was like the lastday when he was on camera, but I
saw him.
He came into my set and I couldsee him on camera.
He walked in and he's lookingand he knows what he sees.
(31:15):
But then he turned around andhe left and I was very
appreciative of that Kudos tohim.
And I've seen him on my camerasthree times.
That's the only real person,the only hunter not real person,
but the only hunter I've seenon my set, but it's one of those
.
Okay, I see somebody's huntinghere.
You're going to run into guysand I think what we talk about
(31:38):
is just strike up a conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, let them know your plans.
Yeah.
That way you guys couldcommunicate and whatnot.
And I've gone into or I'vetalked to people that said you
know, I've been hunting an area,I've been scouting it out and
everything, and then I hearsomebody else has been doing the
same thing in there.
I just, I just turn around andyou can have, because it's not
worth losing a friendship.
(32:01):
Number one to me.
Number two if you come to theclasses, if you sign up for any
of the bootcamp or anything likethat, you're going to figure
out there's a lot more big bucksout there than you realize and
I can show you how to find them.
I'm confident enough that I canwalk away from that and turn
around in the same season andfind at least one, if not two,
more shooters.
You know what I mean.
So, it's not worth losing thatfriendship.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, and it's funny because I have a few spots in my
kind of back pocket, but I havethree really great spots, so I
don't need to go explore theseother areas.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I really want to.
So in those three spots, howmany shooters do you have?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh geez, I have like seven or eight or something.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
There you go yeah.
Which is why.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm not going further but, and so I've offered those
up.
When I know somebody's in thearea.
Right, and that's.
I would say that's a greatthing about just have a
conversation with someone.
Hey, you know what I'm huntingthis particular spot and
everything like that.
But hey, let's, I would evenlike let's just go right over
here and I'll show you a coupleother spots I found and you can
(32:59):
have them, because I have nointention of ever going in there
, but I know that they'repotentially great spots right,
you know, if they don't want totake it and if they don't?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
yeah, that's cool, everything, but you know you're,
you're two years into this,yeah, two years into this, and
you have seven shooters yeahit's like there's guys that have
hunted 14 years and don't knowwhere two shooters are let alone
seven, you know.
So it's like, well, no, they'reout there, they're not that hard
to find.
Once you realize what theseanimals are looking for and,
(33:27):
given that and having thatmindset, you're able to walk
away from a spot and not beconfrontational.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And have the confidence whereyou can know my season's far
from over, I can get this done.
Yeah, yeah, my season's farfrom over, I can get this done.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, you know, yeah.
So the last thing and we'll endon it is not sharing other
people's spots.
Okay, number one, you are notethical.
You're just a horrible personif you give away other people's
spots.
I'm laughing, and we know thatyou can't trust them.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I'm laughing because I've had that happen to me.
I don't know how many times youknow where, and sometimes
there's been like three or fourtimes where I've just ended up
saying you know what?
You've already told otherpeople about this spot and
they've come up and they askedme if they can go in.
These people that heard fromso-and-so and it's like, oh my
gosh.
So there's been a couple thatI've absolutely abandoned
(34:20):
anymore and everything.
And here's the thing.
Here's the thing you need torealize.
When somebody does that, it'sinsecurity.
Yeah, this is a sport filledwith ego and somebody is doing
that to impress somebody else.
And I don't necessarily get mad.
I used to, when I was younger,get mad at someone for doing
(34:41):
that.
Anymore.
I hate to say it like this, butI feel sorry for them Because
you don't have to do that.
People will like you for whoyou are.
Don't try and be somethingyou're not.
Yeah.
And just come to the personwhose spot it is and see what
they say.
Ask them first before you tellsomebody else.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
It is one of our biggest rules so we have during
the bootcamp, we ask guys toshare their spots so that we can
help them with locatinge-scouting.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Share with us.
They don't Share with us, notwith each other necessarily.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And during our coaching, show us your waypoints
so we can talk through this.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And you can tell who's been burned.
Totally get it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I totally get it, but it is rule number one.
If you do that goodbye, you areno longer associated with us,
because it's just not necessary.
Yeah, and it's a crummy thingto do to somebody.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
If you're going to take somebody's spot and
understanding it can be breakingrules or any of this other
stuff we talked about.
It can be tempting, especiallyif you're in an area with really
high hunting pressure.
Right, Just like well, we'vegot to share it, and it's just
one of those you know you got tonegotiate.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, you know it can be done it can be done fairly
yeah it can be done without anybackstabbing or, you know,
secrecy or anything like that.
As far as you know, hey, let'ssneak in behind this, let's get
in front of this guy while he'scalling, or whatever you know.
And it doesn't have to be thatway, guys.
There's a lot of animals outthere.
It's just a matter of puttingyourself or being able to locate
(36:08):
habitat, and that's.
I keep going back to that,because that's the one thing
that has made a huge differencein my hunting career is knowing
where these animals want to be.
If you know what you're lookingfor, you're going to have
opportunity after opportunityafter opportunity.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So ultimately be an ethical hunter, Yep.
Be the good guy.
The way you treat each other,the way you treat people's
property, the way you treat yourfamily by making the right
decisions when you're out thereand stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Be the good guy.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
All right, we'll see you all next week.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave, sogetting into our topic for this
week ethical hunting.
We want to talk about whatmakes an ethical hunter a good
guy hunter.
So we've had a couple ofinstances this year.
You had to report someone whowas hunting illegally on private
property and we got chattingwith the game warden.
(00:23):
Right right, and so just betweenthat and, I think, just some of
our interactions, we've justcome across people that make you
wonder.
So we want to talk about withour particular community.
We've just tried to make surethat we're working with really
good guys.
We're promoting ethical, lawfulhunting and just what's ethical
(00:45):
in certain situations.
So we'll get into differenttopics here, but I want to start
out with a responsibletreatment of animals.
What's ethical when you'redealing with animals?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's a great question and I think that you
need to preface all of that withhow you treat these animals is
how the non-hunter oranti-hunter is going to perceive
all hunters.
Yeah.
And so we owe it to that animal,as well as to those that are
following behind us, to keepthis tradition going, because we
are threatened with losing ourhunting rights and privileges
(01:15):
and stuff like that that.
We owe it to everybody outthere to be ethical in
everything that we do, from theharvesting to the transporting,
to respecting property lines andall of that stuff.
But when it comes to ethicalhuntings and how to treat the
animal, I think a good, forinstance, is how we're
approaching CWD and the threatof CWD, and how we keep our deer
(01:38):
herds healthy and that kind ofstuff?
And if you're baiting them, howdo you bait ethically?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Which includes putting out the minerals.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Which includes putting out minerals, yes, so
that can be a year-roundactivity.
Absolutely, and we do a lot ofminerals.
As far as our group, we haveindividuals that don't do any,
and then we have some that justmake up for everybody, yeah, and
they're dropping mineralseverywhere they go, and both are
good, both are fine.
It's whatever you want to do,but if you're going to do
(02:06):
minerals or if you're going todo bait, do it in a responsible
way, and that's something thatmost guys don't understand.
When we say, do it in aresponsible way, they're like
well, what are you talking about?
How do you bait responsibly?
Or how do you do mineralsresponsibly?
Well, the reason CWD is on topof mind with everybody is
they're thinking that it couldcome over here.
To the west side of Washington,to the west side of the Cascades
(02:27):
, yeah, and what people don'trealize is how that is spread
through the prions and it's bodyfluid.
Yeah, and that includes thenose-to-nose contact, because
they're constantly licking theirnose.
So, when deer go nose-to-n nose, they are exchanging bodily
fluids.
Yeah.
So if you're doing a bait or amineral especially guys that are
(02:49):
baiting don't just dump it outin one pile.
You need to spread it out.
You need to spread it out overthree, four, five yards and that
way there's no or you minimizeany nose to nose contact.
When we say responsible baiting, that's exactly what we're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, and depending on how much with the mineral,
we'll drop it in a line like atleast six feet long so that they
can be eating in separate spots.
But I want to point everybodyback to if you want to really
understand and really know aboutCWD and everything about it,
especially now that they'retaking community input at the
(03:26):
state level because they'remaking a decision about whether
or not in Washington we can baitgoing forward Go back to
episode 10.
It's our CWD episode with DrJosie Rose.
She is a board-certified vetfrom the Oregon Zoo and she gave
us all of the information wecould ever need to know for cwd
as far as to really understandhow it's spread and to be
(03:49):
educated.
And that goes back to being anethical hunter I think it's just
being an educated hunter.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, you know, exactly, exactly and in all
honesty, aaron, that should be,you know, one of our top listen
to episodes.
I mean yeah granted, I want themall to be listened to a lot,
you know, because I think we putout a lot of good information,
but that one there, especiallynow, with it being the timing so
critical, yeah, that should beone that we should all be up on.
You know, and why do you spreadstuff out?
(04:17):
You know why, what is theimportance of that, or what is
the significance of that, andhow does that affect me?
You know, and if they you knowsome guys are if they take away
bait and I don't care, itdoesn't affect me, well, that's
fine, but not everybody is youand even if you don't bait, a
lot of like what we do is theminerals right, and then you're
gonna be very important forwarding off disease and making
(04:40):
them strong and healthy.
So it goes beyond just yeah,it's a dating it's just the
start of the downhill slide ofthings, because then you're
going to get into scents andpheromones, because those are
bodily fluids and it's like,well, no, then those get
outlawed.
Some states don't even allowsynthetics pheromones or urines
and stuff, and yeah, you startgetting real limited on it and
(05:03):
then you're taking a lot of thework and the determination of
someone who says this is how I'mgoing to draw them in, which is
what I do.
You know I have a dog in thefight.
This is how I do it, you know,with pheromones and scents and
everything.
Well then, you know, guys, well, you're just going to have to
do it like the rest of us and goout there and beat the brush
and everything.
Well, guys, come on.
(05:23):
Not everybody has that timecapability, not everybody has
that physical capability, andjust because you're limited on
those I have Lyme's disease.
I can't do the things I used todo and, in all honesty, I get
it.
I used to be the guy that wouldbackpack in and do all that
stuff and I loved it, and I'mnot taken away from that, but
(05:43):
I'm unable to do that physicallynow.
So don't punish someone simplybecause they're physically
unable to do the same thing youare.
What.
I would say to you is enjoy itwhile you can, because your body
only has so many hunts left init.
We were all young once.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So you had touched on how we're being perceived and
when you say hunter and Iactually lived, actually had a
picture and they said theylabeled it as a sheep and it was
a mountain goat it was like,yeah, you guys really don't know
(06:31):
anything about the outdoors andI, anyway, I saw this, but you
can't really.
We have to take the high groundas far as, like, I can't mock
someone for not knowing thedifference between a mountain
goat and a sheep in a farm,right?
So it's, how are you speakingto people and to educate them?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, and see, that's the hard thing, because I think
that we've been brainwashed bysociety in a certain way, of us
against them.
If we look at a lot of areas inour society, in our culture, we
see that it's you againstsomebody else or your group
pitted against.
Pit it against somebody else oryour group pit it against this
group.
And I mean, we see it inpolitics, we see it in, and this
would definitely fall intopolitics and at the same time,
(07:13):
it would fall into hobbies, youknow.
I mean there's a lot ofpolitical facets to this whole
thing, and to think that it'sjust confined to this little
well, we're going to lose ourhunting rights.
People are you got to look atthe bigger picture.
It's more than that.
We're going to lose not onlyour hunting rights, we're going
to lose our gun rights.
Yeah, I mean, it's just thestepping stone into the next,
(07:34):
into the next, into the next,you know, and so we need to
educate.
When we're talking to peoplethat are either anti-hunters or
don't know much about hunting,we have to educate.
And I think of my wife's family.
So she's from California, herwhole side of her family, on her
dad's side, is all fromCalifornia and they weren't
hunters or anything like that,and they had in their mind a
(07:56):
very vivid picture of what theythought hunting was all about
and about how hunters are as faras the lesser, uneducated, the
farm boy.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Hillbilly regnits.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, you know, and it's not that at all there are
very, very, very smart people,and a good hunter is always a
conservationist.
That's what I found.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I want to actually talk about conservation groups.
So we just recently found outabout the Blacktail Deer
Foundation and have becomemembers, and we want to
encourage everybody to becomemembers, especially a lot of and
whether or not you're ablacktail hunter there's the
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
there's Mule Deer.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Foundation, which the Blacktail Deer Foundation is an
offshoot.
Find the conservation group.
The Blacktail Deer Foundationis an offshoot.
Find the conservation group the.
National Wild Turkey FoundationFederation Federation, find
your group and join.
You know, pay that fee and joinup, because they're the ones
(09:08):
who are going to go to yourstate capitals and advocate on
your behalf.
Yep, you can go and talk to thecommittee who's making the
decisions based on seasons andwhether or not you can pay it
and making all these decisions,but they're going to package
that well, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, they're in the ear of that politician all the
time.
Yeah.
You know, and that's what wewant.
We want them in their ear, wewant them to be the squeaky
wheel.
We want them, you know, ifbeing annoying is what gets it
so that he hears our message orshe hears our message, then
that's what we need.
But we need people to supportthem, to support these
conservation groups and stuff.
(09:36):
And yeah, now more than ever,more than ever, you know, we
really need each other.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
And so my suggestion reach out to them, Not only join
, but I know that there's verylimited local chapters in
Washington and, I believe,Oregon as well for the Blacktail
Deer Foundation and I hopefullywill be talking to them soon
about getting a local chapterhere up and running.
But we work with guys all overthe state and that's something
(10:04):
that's of interest to you tohelp build that community for
defending our rights and reallychanging the perception of
hunters.
Reach out to them, startworking on that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So next thing I want to talk about is the safe aspect
of it.
There's not only knowing whereyour bullet and arrow are going,
what's your backdrop which,it's interesting, a lot of gun
guys are always.
You know they're thinking aboutwhat's my backdrop, you know
where's this bullet going, butwhen you get out in the woods
that can go out the window.
(10:38):
The excitement can cause thatto go out the window.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And I think a lot of that's got to do with guys not
seeing or having a lot ofopportunities at filling their
tags, and so when they get theopportunity, there's a mentality
that comes over them.
That's like I need to takeadvantage of this.
I may not get another one, andso they're willing to sacrifice
a little bit of safety to makeit happen.
Yeah.
And the reality is, is thatthat's when bad things happen
(11:04):
and bad things can turn intopermanent things, and that's not
just with the actual shot.
I mean, guys do that all thetime.
We'll get into private propertyversus public lands, you know,
and guys will do that all thetime with private property, and
I myself have been guilty ofthat as well, you know.
But you know 55 now, andlooking back and realizing, oh,
that wasn't very smart.
You know, but you know 55 now,and and looking back and
realizing, oh, that was justthat wasn't very smart, you know
(11:27):
, and if it were my property,would I have acted the same way?
Yeah.
You know.
So there's, there's.
I mean, ethics are somethingthat we deal with every day, and
it's not just confined tohunting, but the public sees and
is watching hunters, and andthat's because it's so visible.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, you know, it really brings in the phrase of
being above reproach.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It does, it does.
But you know, someone getsbusted for poaching.
Yeah, and it's on the news.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
It's on the news.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, and it's like, well, they lost their rig or
they have this poaching ring oryou know, and it's just like, oh
my gosh.
But a thousand guys ethicallyharvest an animal and do
everything and you never hearabout that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You don't hear about the thousand who do it right.
You hear about the one guy whodoes it wrong, right.
And so, fortunately for us, theway we create our sets, and
that is something that goesthrough my mind when I create my
set Where's my bullet going?
And I'm not going to create aset.
In fact, last year, two yearsago I guess now, my first year
hunting I was in a less thanoptimal setting direction.
(12:30):
But to be in the perfect place,I would have been firing into a
direction that I shouldn't beand I knew that.
So that changed everything Iwas going to do.
So second part about safety inall situations is remember your
family.
You know we had one of our guyswent to bootcamp, slipped and
fell a hundred feet, somethinglike that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, in the snow, down a rock wall and into a lake
.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, and not necessarily being dumb, but
those things happen.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Just hazardous conditions and he just happened
to take a bad step, and that'swhat happened.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And Dylan, we're still glad you're with us.
The world would be not nearlyas fun without you.
Absolutely, but it's one ofthose things and when talking to
him he talked about that youknow he's got a newborn baby
girl.
Be thinking about where you'regoing and what's your exit
strategy.
Can I communicate when I'm inhere by myself?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and my son is a great example of that.
He's indestructible.
Well, you know, you're at thatage, I mean he's in his 20s and
everything, and I was the sameway.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, we all were.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It's the adventure side of this that really appeals
to him.
Let's go backpacking in andlet's elk hunt and deer hunt and
all this other stuff, andthat's fine, that's great.
I wish I could do that.
I wish that my body would allowme to do that.
But I get the adventure side ofit.
But that doesn't mean that youhave to be unsafe or ignorant of
what could happen.
Now I'm not saying be negativeabout everything.
Well, what if we get this?
What if we did this?
What I'm saying is be prepared.
(14:07):
That's what I'm saying.
Be prepared with an exit, likeyou said, an exit strategy If
something does happen.
Dylan happened to have a phoneon him.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And it's not like it was 20 years ago, you know you
got those, even if you're out ofcell range.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, there is so much out there right now to keep
you safe as far as equipmentand it's not big bulky equipment
anymore either.
I mean it's stuff that fits inyour pocket, and all of this
stuff invest in it.
Yeah.
Invest in it for not just thesafety of your well-being, but
for the mental safety and healthof your family, because they're
(14:41):
going to worry about you.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I remember my first year going up in the
ladder stand and everything, butI had my plan in place with you
guys.
If I don't reach out to you bythis time, yeah, send help.
Try to figure it out.
Fortunately, actually, I endedup getting cell coverage.
I upgraded my phone and I,actually I ended up getting cell
coverage.
I upgraded my phone and Imiraculously, all of a sudden,
(15:04):
had cell coverage.
But this last year, when Ihunted, I didn't have any cell
coverage and iPhones had a newsatellite deal where you could
text.
That didn't work all the timeand I would have to walk out of
the woods, get in my car anddrive three, four miles to get
to a cell range.
And yeah, it's one of those youwant to just be thinking ahead
(15:26):
of what's my contingency plan ifsomething were to go wrong?
And I think about okay, if I'vetripped and I can't walk, am I
going to be able to drag myselfout of the woods to the road and
flag down a car?
I going to be able to dragmyself out of the woods to the
road and flag down a car, or doI need to figure out how I'm
going to stay here overnight, myground, blind, or something
like that?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, just thinking those things ahead, you
know, because we all havefamilies.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And here's the first and most basic one it's easy to
get turned around in the woods.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And all of a sudden you're not on the finger ridge
you thought you were on, oryou're a mile off of where you
thought you were.
And yeah, I mean it can turn.
I won't say desperate, but itcan turn bad, real fast yeah.
And you need to have a way tocommunicate.
You need to have a way to reachsomebody.
And they need to be able toreach you as well.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So moving along knowing about the laws,
regulations and following them,and we'll get into talking about
property and public versusprivate and all of that.
But when we were speaking withthe game wardens I asked him hey
, so I'm a fairly new hunter.
What are some mistakes that newhunters make?
What are just some commonthings?
And he said it's not so muchthat there's a lot of mistakes
(16:38):
that new hunters make.
He said the biggest deal ispeople are following 99% of the
laws and they fudge that last 1%when they feel like they need
to, or, you know, maybe taking ashot a few minutes too late in
the evening or things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
From the road when nobody is around?
From the roads, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So we had one of our pro staff.
His target buck came in sixminutes after shooting light, so
basically six minutes too late.
He could not legally shoot that.
He could have fudged.
It got not an unethical shotbecause he couldn't clearly see,
but also breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Because it would have been too late.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And that takes a lot of restraint.
So hats off to you, jimmy.
I know he's talking about youand I got to be honest.
That buck is called theFrenchman, that buck is boy,
that's a big buck yeah he's inthe 130s and that's a hard thing
to do.
But I mean hats off to him forhaving the character to say you
(17:42):
know what I need to make it?
I owe it to that deer to makean ethical shot and I have to
live with myself knowing that Idid fudge.
And some people are fine withthat yeah, that doesn't bother
them.
But being a father and mybiggest responsibility is to my
family, to my kids, what theysee me do, they're gonna mimic
yeah you know, and so it's like,well, no, I, I live with that,
(18:05):
and so I try to always be aperson of of character and and
uh, good ethics when I'm outthere.
But it's not easy all the time.
When you're given a situationlike that, it's like that's only
six minutes, you know uh-huhyeah and I mean it's a buck of a
lifetime for a lot of guys andit's like, well, no, jimmy hats
off yeah that took some mentalstrength there willing to wait
another year yeah, yeah beforeand this is year two that he's
(18:29):
that that buck has done that tohim yes
Speaker 1 (18:31):
twice so yeah, so it's understanding and observing
harvest rules and and baglimits and you know point
minimums and and all that andseasons and not you're out elk
hunting maybe modern elk andthat big buck walks out in front
of you.
It's well, it's only a day lateand I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No one is gonna see me yeah, I can pull it out at
night.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We've all had that temptation and see and that, but
that's that was what that gamewarden was talking about.
It's a day early, a day late.
It's trying to fudge those.
And we don't, we just don't.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I don't need that kind of fame, I don't need to be
on the news.
You know, and that's exactlywhat happens, and you know the
repercussions of that is youcould lose that hunting
privilege, and it is a privilege.
You could lose that huntingprivilege for a number of years.
You know, if you do get caughtand if you're a father, then you
got to explain that to yourkids.
Well, how come?
How come we're not goinghunting?
How come you're not hunting,dad?
(19:28):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And then, well, it's not.
You got to relive thatembarrassment, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, I broke the law you know it was interesting
when I first started.
I and I mean it made totalsense, but it took like really
I've seen the law when I wasreading through the regs a
couple years ago.
You can't just shoot an animaland just leave it there like I
don't want to crawl down in thatravine and go collect my
harvest.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You can't do that, or they'll cut off the horns and
and leave, yeah and leave therest, I just want horns and
backstrap and whatnot.
That kind of stuff, stuff, just, oh, that just grinds my gears.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But that's one of those things where I didn't
realize that you couldn't dosomething like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh, oh, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And so I was like oh, it's one of those, and I think
this whole, like what we'retalking about, it's just really
knowing the laws.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Or the regs and really understanding them,
because there might be stuffthat, yeah, you might be
surprised.
Oh, I didn't realize that Icouldn't do that and you know
that was one of the things withtagging, you know, attaching
your license to the deer antlerbefore you start walking out of
the woods.
We started.
You know DJ was helping meright and we started dragging
(20:44):
just a little ways.
He's like oh wait where's yourlicense?
You need to put that on therenow and before.
I mean, it wasn't like you getout to your car and nope, you
got to do it right now.
And he showed me and you knowyou cut out the date and then
how to attach it, where toattach it, and it was like, okay
, that was helpful.
But if I'd been by myself Imight have just dragged the
(21:05):
thing out and not had any ideas.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And see, that's it right there.
The game warden doesn't acceptignorance as an excuse.
You know, because everybody'sgoing to give him that Well, I
didn't know.
But guys, don't realize, it'syour responsibility to know,
it's your responsibility.
It's not the game warden'sresponsibility to tell you.
It's your responsibility toknow.
That guy that shot that buck infront of my wife and I was on
(21:29):
private property and I told himfive, six times it's on private
property.
He goes well, it's not posted.
And I kept telling him in thestate of Washington it doesn't
have to be posted.
And it didn't slow him.
The guy's wife was literallycrying.
She was crying and he actuallymade her get out and shoot that
buck and I was just like whatkind of experience is that for
(21:52):
her?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And we talked about that with a family affair in
that situation Asha was talkingabout that, but they're going to
hold and this is where itreally gets down to being an
ethical hunter, because peoplemight be learning how to hunt
from you, right, right.
That memory is going to play inher mind every time, but she's
the one who broke the law byshooting the animal Right.
(22:13):
Well, it doesn't cost himanything.
She's the one who's going toget cited, so I'm willing to
fudge because you're the onewho's going to get cited.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So, eh, I'm willing to fudge, because you're the one
who's going to get busted.
You're the one pulling thetrigger.
How?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
unethical, Like that's kind of a, that's just a
crappy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I mean if your wife is crying because she doesn't
want to shoot this buck thatyou're trying to make her shoot.
I mean, do you think she wantsto go hunting anymore?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, so much for winning people over.
Exactly.
So you know there's knowingweapons, and are you on public
land versus private land?
And if it's public land, likesierra pacific or yeah, you have
access to it, but what are therules governing access you?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
know we all understand, or no, or no, e-bike
, or you know, is it walk onlyCan I get a pass, a permit to do
this.
Do I need one to walk in?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Is it closed for fire danger?
Yeah there's so much to know,yeah and you have to observe
those because they'll bust youfor it.
But it's just as long as youknow ahead of time, you can
avoid all of that.
The last thing I want to talkabout is there's a lot of
hunters out there.
That the last thing I want totalk about is there's a lot of
(23:23):
hunters out there.
And how do you work with otherhunters and not against?
And so I'm thinking about, youknow the thought that popped
into my head.
So we're hunting sets and oneof mine.
Well, you have sets on amainline and I have sets on a
mainline.
Well, I go to this one andthere are six other rigs already
parked at the gate when I showup and I I would do more of an
(23:45):
afternoon hunt, but six rigs allparked there, right, right.
So why don't you talk about ifthere's, if there's six guys or
six groups all showing up at 4am?
How do you handle thatsituation?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's a really good question, aaron, and I think
that every area is different,because every area is a
different size.
I can think of one spot that Iused to go in and hunt that if
there were two rigs there, itwas already one guy too many,
just because there was notenough acreage there that you
were not going to either bumpinto another hunter or bump
(24:21):
their animal, and so you don'twant to cork anybody on their
hunt.
You know what I mean.
That's just.
That's just.
You don't want anyone to do itto you, so you should do it to
others.
That's just common courtesy, andif I'm the last one there, well
, I'm the one that's going toleave you know, if I'm the first
one there and then typicallyyou know, I'm going to hey
(24:44):
introduce myself and say this iswhat I plan on doing and
everything like that, and I'llleave it up to that guy to see,
because I don't own the woods,you know, and I can just hope
that he's going to be ethical.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It's a shared space.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, and say, hey, you know what, you were here,
I'm going to let you have it,and so, and sometimes they do
that, sometimes they don't, butI'm not going to stoop to
becoming that guy.
That's Too bad.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, the guy who hunted that buck on the private
property because he was justflat out rude to you.
And my wife he tried to extenda bit of an olive branch Right
After warning him, he was stilla jerk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And it goes back to what we were talking about
earlier the moment, theexcitement in the moment, took
over.
He kept saying it's not posted,it's not posted.
And I kept telling him itdoesn't matter, in the state of
Washington it doesn't have to be, but the excitement.
It was a sizable buck.
Yeah.
And he just the excitement.
He just would not listen toreason and guys I mean
(25:40):
ultimately the guys that havecome to the in-person classes
and the online classes and theseminars.
You've heard me say this beforeand some guys get offended when
I say this, but here's thereality of it.
It's just a deer.
Yeah.
It's just a deer.
Okay, I can teach guys all daylong on how to get big trophy
(26:03):
record book bucks in front ofthem, so don't be thinking
that's your only opportunity.
If you seek out people who aresuccessful and that want to
teach, you'll have opportunitiesat other bucks.
It's just the way it is.
It's only a deer.
Why would you risk thefinancial punishment, the
(26:23):
material punishment, thephysical punishment of losing
your license, and all of thatfor a deer?
Yeah, you know I understand theexcitement.
I do, I really do.
I was there.
Well, I'm on the other side ofthat now and it's like no guys,
it doesn't have to be like thatyou know, and as far as gates
(26:44):
and whatnot, I've gone to mainlines and there's been six other
rigs parked here.
I know that that main line goesout there for miles.
Yeah.
And I know what I'm huntingversus what they're hunting and
I've gone in those and neverseen those guys and I didn't
either.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I mean, I walked in and I actually had three guys
came out and it looked likefather, son and grandfather.
Three generations.
The only thing that annoyed meabout them is so they had their
rifles.
They had a mount on the frontof their bike so that their
rifles were on the front butpointing like left to right type
of thing.
Yeah.
It wasn't pointing straight up.
They all three rode by me withtheir rifle barrels pointed at
(27:26):
me, and I about came unglued forthat aspect because it was just
stupid.
But then I'm like okay, who'sthe idiot who designed that?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's like we're all looking for some kind of the
next new and latest and greatestthing that helps you do
whatever, whether it's carryyour weapon in or haul your
animal out, or or keep you warmlonger or dry or whatever.
But you know, like I said,being ethical is a 24-hour job.
We're always, as hunters, we'realways having to be on top of
(28:00):
it.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, and it's it was .
At the moment I wasn't quitesure that I could handle it
really well, uh-huh.
And so I'm new to hunting, butI'm a gun guy and I've been
Right, I've had guns years, grewup shooting all of that, and so
it's always been drilled intomy head, though-.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, muzzle control.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Muzzle control and it just to like ride by and not
really even be thinking about it.
And I know the guns wereunloaded.
I hope the guns were unloadedJust for their own safety.
It's like why would you ridearound with a bicycle Walking in
and out of the woods?
My weapon isn't loaded.
Just until I get to my set setand then I load my rifle.
(28:43):
I could slip, I could fall, youknow.
Going back to the, rememberingI got a family.
Well, I'm going to shoot thedeer at my set.
I'm not going to shoot the deeron my.
I could potentially see a deerwalking and I have to my set.
But that's just a decision.
I don't want to walk arounduneven ground with a loaded
weapon ready to shoot.
(29:03):
So, anyway, it was just one ofthose where let it slide and,
yeah, I didn't know how I couldat the in the moment I was just
a little more irritated thanthan anything, so I just let it
slide and stuff.
But but thinking about, we'resharing the forest and we just
recently had someone who's inone of our, who was in our
online class, mention that hewent out looking for some spots
(29:23):
and saw a feeder out there andwondered who might that be?
Maybe potentially someone fromone of our classes who had put
out something, or a randomperson trying to draw deer into
the area.
You never know, but we rarelycatch anybody walking by our
cameras just because of wherewe're hunting.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I haven't had a person on my camera in probably
three, four years now and I'mnot that far off a main line,
you know, at any of my sets andstuff, so but it's just the
habitat that we're in.
But yeah, they asked if we knewof up in that area where they
had found that.
And I would say this guys, ifyou stumble across a tree stand
(30:03):
or a ground blind, do the rightthing and just go the other
direction.
Yeah, let them have that spot.
There's plenty of deer out there.
There's plenty of I won't saythere's plenty of elk, but
there's plenty of deer out thereto share and whatnot.
Don't cork somebody else.
I've had people come up and saythat they found a tree stand
and they went up and they sat init for hours.
Well, that may be fine and goodand you think you didn't hurt
(30:24):
anyone, but the reality is isthe guy who set up that tree
stand.
He's been prepping that spotfor months and it's like he's
done all this labor to clear,shooting lanes and putting out
whether he's putting out bait orputting out sands or whatever
he's doing to draw those deer in.
Or maybe he's doing to drawthose deer in, or maybe he's
just hunting a travel corridor,but either way, he is the one
who's put the labor into thisand you're robbing him of that,
(30:46):
uh, and trying to steal it fromhim by harvesting, you know, the
buck that he knows that's inthere, or bucks and stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
just there's plenty of deer out there.
You can blow out his spot ifyou get spotted right right deer
.
So I actually had and it wasduring elk, it was elk modern
and it was right before.
I think it was like the lastday when he was on camera, but I
saw him.
He came into my set and I couldsee him on camera.
He walked in and he's lookingand he knows what he sees.
(31:15):
But then he turned around andhe left and I was very
appreciative of that Kudos tohim.
And I've seen him on my camerasthree times.
That's the only real person,the only hunter not real person,
but the only hunter I've seenon my set, but it's one of those
.
Okay, I see somebody's huntinghere.
You're going to run into guysand I think what we talk about
(31:38):
is just strike up a conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, let them know your plans.
Yeah.
That way you guys couldcommunicate and whatnot.
And I've gone into or I'vetalked to people that said you
know, I've been hunting an area,I've been scouting it out and
everything, and then I hearsomebody else has been doing the
same thing in there.
I just, I just turn around andyou can have, because it's not
worth losing a friendship.
(32:01):
Number one to me.
Number two if you come to theclasses, if you sign up for any
of the bootcamp or anything likethat, you're going to figure
out there's a lot more big bucksout there than you realize and
I can show you how to find them.
I'm confident enough that I canwalk away from that and turn
around in the same season andfind at least one, if not two,
more shooters.
You know what I mean.
So, it's not worth losing thatfriendship.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, and it's funny because I have a few spots in my
kind of back pocket, but I havethree really great spots, so I
don't need to go explore theseother areas.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I really want to.
So in those three spots, howmany shooters do you have?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh geez, I have like seven or eight or something.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
There you go yeah.
Which is why.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm not going further but, and so I've offered those
up.
When I know somebody's in thearea.
Right, and that's.
I would say that's a greatthing about just have a
conversation with someone.
Hey, you know what I'm huntingthis particular spot and
everything like that.
But hey, let's, I would evenlike let's just go right over
here and I'll show you a coupleother spots I found and you can
(32:59):
have them, because I have nointention of ever going in there
, but I know that they'repotentially great spots right,
you know, if they don't want totake it and if they don't?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
yeah, that's cool, everything, but you know you're,
you're two years into this,yeah, two years into this, and
you have seven shooters yeahit's like there's guys that have
hunted 14 years and don't knowwhere two shooters are let alone
seven, you know.
So it's like, well, no, they'reout there, they're not that hard
to find.
Once you realize what theseanimals are looking for and,
(33:27):
given that and having thatmindset, you're able to walk
away from a spot and not beconfrontational.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And have the confidence whereyou can know my season's far
from over, I can get this done.
Yeah, yeah, my season's farfrom over, I can get this done.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, you know, yeah.
So the last thing and we'll endon it is not sharing other
people's spots.
Okay, number one, you are notethical.
You're just a horrible personif you give away other people's
spots.
I'm laughing, and we know thatyou can't trust them.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I'm laughing because I've had that happen to me.
I don't know how many times youknow where, and sometimes
there's been like three or fourtimes where I've just ended up
saying you know what?
You've already told otherpeople about this spot and
they've come up and they askedme if they can go in.
These people that heard fromso-and-so and it's like, oh my
gosh.
So there's been a couple thatI've absolutely abandoned
(34:20):
anymore and everything.
And here's the thing.
Here's the thing you need torealize.
When somebody does that, it'sinsecurity.
Yeah, this is a sport filledwith ego and somebody is doing
that to impress somebody else.
And I don't necessarily get mad.
I used to, when I was younger,get mad at someone for doing
(34:41):
that.
Anymore.
I hate to say it like this, butI feel sorry for them Because
you don't have to do that.
People will like you for whoyou are.
Don't try and be somethingyou're not.
Yeah.
And just come to the personwhose spot it is and see what
they say.
Ask them first before you tellsomebody else.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
It is one of our biggest rules so we have during
the bootcamp, we ask guys toshare their spots so that we can
help them with locatinge-scouting.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Share with us.
They don't Share with us, notwith each other necessarily.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And during our coaching, show us your waypoints
so we can talk through this.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And you can tell who's been burned.
Totally get it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I totally get it, but it is rule number one.
If you do that goodbye, you areno longer associated with us,
because it's just not necessary.
Yeah, and it's a crummy thingto do to somebody.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
If you're going to take somebody's spot and
understanding it can be breakingrules or any of this other
stuff we talked about.
It can be tempting, especiallyif you're in an area with really
high hunting pressure.
Right, Just like well, we'vegot to share it, and it's just
one of those you know you got tonegotiate.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, you know it can be done it can be done fairly
yeah it can be done without anybackstabbing or, you know,
secrecy or anything like that.
As far as you know, hey, let'ssneak in behind this, let's get
in front of this guy while he'scalling, or whatever you know.
And it doesn't have to be thatway, guys.
There's a lot of animals outthere.
It's just a matter of puttingyourself or being able to locate
(36:08):
habitat, and that's.
I keep going back to that,because that's the one thing
that has made a huge differencein my hunting career is knowing
where these animals want to be.
If you know what you're lookingfor, you're going to have
opportunity after opportunityafter opportunity.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So ultimately be an ethical hunter, Yep.
Be the good guy.
The way you treat each other,the way you treat people's
property, the way you treat yourfamily by making the right
decisions when you're out thereand stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Be the good guy.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
All right, we'll see you all next week.
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