December 1, 2025 • 38 mins
Bucks broadcast more than tracks. They paint the woods with scent from orbital, forehead, tarsal, metatarsal, and interdigital glands—messages about identity, rank, breeding readiness, danger, and direction of travel. We break down how to read that code, why blacktail scrapes differ from whitetail, and how to separate fleeting “dominance rubs” from dependable, year-over-year rub lines that actually put deer in front of you.
We share hard-won tactics for finding annual rub lines along edges, overgrown skid roads, alders, and viny maples, including how to read rub sides to infer bedding and travel direction. You’ll learn how tarsal staining correlates with testosterone and age class, why metatarsal scent helps blacktail and mule deer synchronize escape, and how interdigital glands quietly mark trails and “hot zones” after a spook—one reason careful entries and exits matter as much as stand choice. We also dig into mature buck behavior: how three-plus year-olds favor thicker cover, stage until dark, and avoid the obvious paths that does and young bucks use.
Body language and sound round out the picture. Relaxed ears and tail twitches, pinned ears and raised hackles, lowered heads and squared shoulders—each cue tells you when to draw or wait. On the audio side, we compare doe and buck grunts, when a fawn distress call helps or hurts, and the precise moments a snort wheeze flips a switch in a lone rutting buck. Expect practical, field-ready advice: how wind carries estrus scent across a valley, why clearcuts glow with night rubs that waste daylight sits, and what a doe’s “blow” actually means for your next hour in the stand.
If this breakdown sharpened your game, follow the show, leave a quick review, and share it with a hunting buddy who reads the woods by sight but not yet by scent. Your support helps more hunters turn sign into success.
Nilch’i Wind Checks - An easy to use, must have gear addition to our hunts
Dead Down Wind
Scent Elimination Products
Tinks
Tinks Scents
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Welcome back to the Blackdale Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
And I'm Dave.
Okay, this week we're talkingabout deer communication and how
they communicate with theirnose, their eyes, and their
ears, mostly with each other.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
And so with the nose.
And we can talk about urine,doanesterus, because we use
those scents, but those arebecause they're containing some
glandular secretions as well.
And they're communicatingsomething like with the tarsal
glands, is the bucks.
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
So first talking about the orbital glands.
So these are the ones that arein front of the eyes.
Yes.
And I didn't realize that theyhad those, and then they have
forehead glands.
And those are communicating twoseparate intentions, yes.
Yeah, two different intentions.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Yeah.
So the orbital gland, many of usthat are deer hunters, been deer
hunting for a while or whatnot,or have any kind of whitetail
background, understand thatbucks use them in scrapes.
Whitetail do a lot of scrapes,and so there's always what we
call a licking branch that isabove the scrape where they will
(01:21):
take and they will secrete stuffout of their orbital gland and
onto that licking branch.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Where the forehead glands are different.
Those are used for like rubs.
And it each is communicatingsomething different to the deer.
unknown (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Orbital gland and black tail do scrapes, they just
don't do them as often as whitetail.
I have seen black tail doscrapes, but again, it's not
very often.
And I don't know why that is.
In all my readings that I'venever come across as to why
black tail don't do it as muchas whitetail.
I know that we've got plenty ofopportunity out here with all
(01:59):
the trees that we have for doingscrapes.
Scrapes and doing the lickingbranch and all that.
But yeah, I don't see him do itas much, but I have seen them do
it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
With mine, and I didn't realize that I was
walking by a scrape on my set.
So I don't know when it wasactually made.
Now, are those primarily ruttingor yeah, they're made during
they're made during the rut.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Okay.
And just like whitetail, a lotof the scrapes that are made by
black tail, they don't alwayscome back to, you know.
But most of them are a one or atwo-time thing, and then they're
abandoned, you know.
Or they just downsize to, okay,I'm gonna use this one, and I
have a high traffic of doescoming through because the dough
come along and she'll pee inthat scrape, or another buck
(02:50):
will pee in that scrape, andthen he'll take and use a
licking branch to leave somefluid out of the orbital gland
on that licking branch.
And it can be to identify, itcan be to challenge, it can be
to mark territory.
There's a whole plethora ofthings that they go through as
far as the way they communicatewith that particular thing, you
(03:13):
as far as scrapes and lickingbranches and whatnot with the
orbital gland.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
But I don't know that I've ever seen Blacktail
use a scrape consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
As much as I see them using rub a rub line
consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yes.
And I've have I found well, oneof my sets I never found
anything that was, I would callwell, just any rubs at all.
Uh-huh.
I did find, and we'll actuallyget into talking the difference
in rubs.
There were some rubs somewhatclose to my riverside set, but I
did have a rub line, my hilltopset, uh-huh, and I created a rub
(03:53):
line at my halfway set, bothalong that scotch broom, and
we've talked about that.
But also this year I noticedthat they started doing a rub
line up just off my set, 20yards off my set, on that main
trail heading up the hillside byby where I was hunting.
And that was a first seeing anyrubs up in there.
(04:15):
That was an area that they thatwould necessarily more of a
travel corridor.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Right, right.
And not that they wouldn't do italong a travel corridor because
they But they're mostlyinterested where there's a lot
of doe interaction, yeah, youknow, where the does are
traveling as well, not just thebox.
Like when I look for a rub line,I want an annual rub line.
I don't want a seasonal onewhere it's coming, oh, this
season they did it over here,and then the following season
they did it somewhere else.
(04:41):
An annual is one where they'llcome back year after year after
year.
And you'll walk into it, andthere's no doubt when you see
one, because there's 30 to 40rubs, you know, yeah, in that
rub line, because it's multipleyears of them coming back and
you can tell and utilizing that.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Like uh, this is an old rub is that looks like a rub
from last season.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
This one looks like it's like three years old, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
And you can tell which ones are fresh, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Right.
And that's ideally a great setupbecause those bucks are coming
back year after year after year,which means the doughs are
traveling through there to markthose rubs.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
Now they're doing the rubs, and the and you've
talked about the differencebetween annual and dominance
rubs, not rub lines, becausedominance rubs are more spotty.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
And so actually just explain those real quick.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Okay, so an annual rub line, like I just said, is a
rub line that has come backseason after season after
season.
The bucks continue to use it.
And there are there arecharacteristics of it in the
sense that you can tell what themain travel way of a certain
buck is because they're gonnarub it on the side that they're
coming from.
So it'll be the side of the treethat they approach first, and
(05:55):
then they walk past it.
So you can look at that annualrub line and say, Oh, the
bedding area must be back thisway because they keep coming
from this direction, headingthat direction.
So you learn how to read thatrub line in that sense.
But a dominance rub, so guys,those I'll be doing a seminar,
and guys will come up to me.
Well, you know, I've beenhunting clear cuts and
everything, and I see all theserubs out in the clear cuts, and
(06:17):
it's like, well, there's gottabe bucks here, you know.
And a lot of them, what whatguys fail to realize is a lot of
those rubs are done at night.
Yeah.
Because big bucks don't veryseldom, I don't, they typically
don't want to be out in a clearcut.
That doesn't mean you can't killa big buck out in a clear cut.
I'm just saying, typicallyspeaking, they don't like to be
(06:39):
out in a clear cut.
So when you start seeing a lotof rubs out in a clear cut, most
of the time it is done at night.
And what happens is during therut phase, what happens is the
does go out to these clear cutsat night and they feed.
Well, the bucks come out atnight too and they feed.
And that's when they're out inthe clear cuts, is at night.
(06:59):
And what happens is a buck mayhave a dough locked down, or he
may encounter another buck, andhe's either trying to establish
his dominance over that buckthat he sees, or he's simply
being territorial saying, I'mover here, you're over there.
So, what he'll do in a dominantresponse of seeing another buck,
(07:20):
whether he's got a dough lockeddown, or if he's just trying to
establish territory, he looksover, he sees the other buck.
Out of a show of dominance, hedoes a rub.
Okay.
And then in response, the buckthat he is trying to establish
boundaries with will in turn doa rub.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
And so now we've got two rubs out in the middle of
this clear cut, and they lookfresh.
And honestly, there's a lot ofdoes out there, so these bucks
are out moving around at night.
So you may get anywhere 12, 15rubs in a clear cut.
You're thinking, oh my gosh,this is nuts.
These bucks are in here all thetime.
And you can spend days and daysand days sitting on that clear
(08:01):
cut and not see the buck thatmakes that rub because he's
coming out at night.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
Those are the forehead gland.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
And the thing is, they don't come back to those
rubs.
No, those rubs are simply madeagain as a display of dominance
toward another buck that they'veencountered, and it's not a
breeding type scenario.
Whereas when we see a rub line,we see a breeding type scenario.
These bucks go through and theyleave, not they don't just do a
(08:31):
rub, they do a rub, they pee ontheir tarsal glands, and then
they'll rub the orbital glandand sometimes a forehead gland
on that rub to not only let theother bucks know who they are
and where they are in theranking of dominant to least
(08:51):
dominant, but they also do itbecause the does will walk
through those rub lines, and thedoes, just by nature, want to be
bred by the dominant buck andthe one right underneath them.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
For the preservation of the species, you know,
survival of the fittest, so tospeak.
And so they are going throughand they're leaving their scent
on those rubs as well.
And the annual rub line is whatyou're looking for.
And I've never found one in aclear cut, I've always found
them in the heavy brush, like wetalk about it in the seminars
(09:25):
and in the classes andeverything, where we have two
habitats coming together and wegot an edge.
There's a certain habitat thatthese bucks look for to do these
rub lines.
And when you find it, there's nodoubt about it.
It's just obvious.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
And a lot of those, well, skitter roads.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Overgrown skitter roads are great.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Alders or viny maples.
And so as I was looking thisstuff up ahead of time, it was
territory, identity, and socialranking, is what they convey
through this.
And then but they're rubbing, isit just their orbital or just
their forehead?
(10:06):
Or is it both?
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
It's both.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
It's both during the rub.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
Yeah.
So if it's a dominance rub, thenit's probably gonna be more
forehead on it.
Yeah.
You know, for the identificationand and territory, territory,
that kind of stuff, you know.
And then I think more andorbital too, but I mean, for me,
uh my opinion is the orbital ismore for the mating or breeding
(10:31):
side of it.
It it also identifies it andestablishes territory, but it
also is like saying, okay, thisbecause of what we've talked
about in the past as far asblack tail living that living
the entirety of their livesinside of 51 acres, those deer
have smelled everybody there,everyone inside of that 51
(10:53):
acres.
So when he leaves that scentfrom the gland on there, he is
identifying himself, and thenhe's establishing I'm the
dominant buck, or I'm thisranking.
And those again, those does comethrough there, and they can
smell where that dominant buckhas been, and that's where they
leave their scent because theywant to get bred by that
(11:15):
dominant buck.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
The following, and one of the guys in coaching had
a really good video of a buckcoming and leaving a rub, and
then a while later, the doecoming in and licking the rub.
Yeah, and then the buck comingback in, leaving another rub, or
it was a different buck.
I can't remember if it was twodifferent bucks on that one
(11:37):
particular rub, and then anotherdoe coming in, or that same doe
coming in, and again, kind ofchecking who came by, right, who
left this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
And a lot of that occurs in the early part of the
first rut.
Because at a certain point, thedoes are tired of being chased,
so they start hiding from thebucks because they're tired of
being pestered, you know.
And then when the dominant buckfinds them, he's the one who
locks them down.
The dominant and the one rightunderneath him, they lock down
that doe and they kind of keepher from everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I saw I was also while I was researching this
that they can convey health ofthe buck through those glands.
Right.
And I imagine it's they'rechecking that out to see who's
healthy or if is that dominantbuck healthy still, or if
there's something wrong.
But I did for the Patreon guys,I did a video showing the
(12:32):
difference between because onone of my sets I have dominance
rubs, and it's out in it's not aclear cut, but it's a jack fur
patch that's really wide open,like four to six foot jackfur.
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
So real small stuff that they wouldn't necessarily
not a bedding area.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
But showed rubs in there, and then I showed on one
of my sets an annual rub linedown the viny maples and the
alders down the middle of it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Right.
There's you know, huntingtechniques, ambushing and or
sitting groundblinder treestand, that annual rub line is
going to be much more productivethan the clear cut.
And I say that in regards toyou'll catch the smaller bucks
out there.
And if you're happy with that,great.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
But if you're wanting something larger, then
yeah, that annual rub line iswhat you're looking for.
And again, like I said, once youfind it, it's been so
established over the seasons,over the years, that you just
know.
I mean, it's nothing to have 20,30, and it may only be two bucks
working that rub line.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Yeah.
But yeah, there can be it'severy tree or every other tree.
Yeah.
Or it's 10 in a row, they skip acouple and then it's another 10
in a row or something.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
I like it when you can find one and it's like every
size of tree.
So you know you've got bigbucks, small bucks, medium
bucks, all using that rub line.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
You know, that makes things more exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
So jumping into let's talk about there's the
tarsal glands and metatarsalglands.
Uh-huh.
And one of the things that whenI was researching this, is they
said that for the metatarsalglands, that for white tail,
those are kind of a vestigialorgan.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
That they have them, but they don't use them so much.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
And that's the metatarsal.
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Metatarsal.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Which is on the outside of the leg, not on the
inside.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
And that, but for black tail and for mule deer,
that they're still they activelyuse those for it's kind of a
warning system and a high alert,and it's for a synchronized
escape.
So basically, if a deer, Iguess, uh, are smelling
secretions from this gland andthey're running off towards the
(14:57):
east, that tells all the otherdeer, run towards the east
because that was the saferdirection.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
You gotta think of it like a mister, you know.
All of a sudden they startsmelling that, and that's all I
need to know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
You know, it goes back to what we've said on
previous episodes that deer arenot reliant on their eyes or
ears as much as they are relianton their nose.
Yeah.
That is their first line ofdefense.
And so, yeah, the metatarsal isa totally different application
in comparison to the tarsalglands.
Tarsal glands, it's a totalbreeding scenario where they pee
(15:35):
on the tarsal gland.
And what's funny is you see themin the summer, and that tarsal
gland is typically it's the hairis bushier, so it's it like
stands out, but it's the samecolor as the rest of the coat.
As we get into the breedingseason, that urine will stain
those tarsal glands dark, yeah,either black or dark, dark
(15:59):
brown.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
You know what one of the things that I don't know how
accurate this was, because it asI'm looking all this stuff up,
it talks about dominance, itshares the testosterone levels
of the bucks.
So the darker the stain, thehigher the testosterone level.
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Right, right.
So the younger bucks typicallydon't get as dark as your older
bucks get as far as their tarsalglands, which I kind of
correlate with, okay, they'redoing more of the breeding than
the younger bucks are.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Yeah.
It's interesting because I hadnever thought about looking at
that for helping for age orunderstanding the dominance.
And I know there's more to whothe dominant or the secondary
buck is that's not relatednecessarily to age.
Because I've had a mature buck,four and a half-year-old, where
he wasn't the dominant buck inthat area.
(16:51):
Right.
There were two others thatdwarfed him, maybe not
body-wise, but just the rack andeverything else.
And now it'd be interesting togo back because I think I have
good enough pictures of two ofthem where I could actually look
at those tarsal glands in thatarea just to see how dark they
are and see if there's any kindof comparison.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Right.
And it can be deceiving in thesense that at a certain age, it
will like when a buck gets to beeight and a half, nine years
old, nine and a half years old,they're almost impossible to
kill.
Because they lose interest inthe rut.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Well, their testosterone probably drops off
like that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
So if you look at their, if you look at their
tarsal glands, they're not gonnabe as dark as a buck that's
hitting his prime, five and ahalf, six and a half years old,
seven and a half years old.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
So, you know, that's why aging is more a skeletal
thing than it is stuff likethis.
Because as they get older, theyjust lose interest, you know,
and we all see it on TV.
We watch the hunting shows, andyou see that bull out in the
meadow, and it's September, andyou're watching, and the guy is
throwing everything but thekitchen sink at him, and the
bull is just out there feeding.
(18:04):
He's got no cows, doesn't careabout anything.
Well, it's because he's reachedan age where the rut isn't what
drives him anymore.
We start tapering off.
It's the same with guys.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
He's heading up for the ladies, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Your drive lessons and that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
You put up with her long enough.
It's just time to move on.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
You know, what is the commercial that they have?
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Your T levels like medication commercial?
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah, with flutie on there.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Oh, yeah, whatever, neutrodenics.
Yeah, neugenics, that's what itis.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Yeah, so they're not passing out nugenics anywhere
out there in the field.
So, you know, these deer, oncethey lose interest, it's all a
downhill slide.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
But it makes them almost impossible to kill
because they don't slip up.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:48):
There's nothing that's making them stupid.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Well, those situations you just want to be
hanging up by the food source.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or the bed, the core area, thatbedroom.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Yeah.
So orbital glands, tarsal,metatarsal, forehead gland.
We talked about all those.
Last one, and I didn't actuallyknow about these until I started
researching the interdigitalglands.
Uh-huh.
So the gl there's a gland inbetween their hooves.
Yep.
That and this, so this isinteresting because it it's
(19:21):
communicating to other deer thattheir direction of travel, their
identity, who's traveling, andit's marking trails that they're
using.
Right.
And so I've kind of wonderedwhy, or, and maybe it's not
necessarily a product that likeTeenks or Conquest or you know,
(19:41):
that companies that make DoanEstris or or these gland
products or synthetic versionsof them, that seems like that
would be a handy or a goodproduct to create.
And maybe that's communicated bysome of the when we do drags.
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Right, right.
And I kind of look at it for mepersonally, the way I look at
the interdigital is simply this.
When they're marking trails, alot of times they're marking
escape routes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
So they've been spooked, and next time you get a
deer, just look in between thehooves.
There's a slit right in there.
It's really obvious.
And that gland, I mean, as soonas they get all tensed up, and
it just they've been startled.
And all of a sudden they'rejust, you've seen a deer, they
just lock up.
It's like, oh, okay, what'sgood?
And the head snaps up and theystart looking.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
They are seconds away from starting to pump out
out of that interdigital gland,that warning, okay, because it's
there's the relaxing that comesout of there, as well as okay,
high alert.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
And then they do, they mark trails as far as
escape routes.
And so when they come into aset, if you've buggered that
that buck or a doe or or asmaller buck or any deer while
you were in stand or in blind,they're gonna leave a marker
there that is going to make itso that even though you have a
bedding pheromone out, it willstill not allow that deer to
(21:11):
relax.
They will come in on pins andneedles.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Well, and a deer wouldn't be able to tell that
when the bedding pheromone wasput out.
And right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Well, they can they can tell how old it is.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
You know, once they've been buggered on a set,
it's really hard to get them torelax after that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
That's why I tell guys, you've got to mind your
entries and your exits.
You're hunting from the time youget out of the pickup to the
time you get back.
You have to be in stealth mode.
To think that the only time youneed to be quiet or sneaky or
invisible last 30 yards, it'snot.
It's not.
It's from the time you get outof that pickup, you just go into
(21:52):
hunt mode and you need to staythat way until you get back.
Because these animalscommunicate not by sight.
You know, there's grunting andall that.
Yeah, they do do that, but it'smore about sense that they put
out, and hence the reason thatwe've based our whole system on
that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
And that's the first thing that they're gonna get
into.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
So you've mentioned that the big bucks don't take
the same trails as the does andthe small bucks.
Right.
Now, is that something where abig buck they're walking along?
Okay, that's a trail that littlebucks are using or does are
using.
I don't necessarily want to takethat right now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
But yes and no.
I mean, I think instinctively itwhen they reach a certain age,
it's usually about athree-point.
They start wanting and desiringcover more than the does and the
smaller bucks.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Now, I don't know if that's got anything to do with
the scent that's being laid outor anything like that.
There's just something about it,when they hit that age marker,
they all of a sudden want tostick to the thicker cover.
They start using that thickercover.
By the time they hit four and ahalf, it's like they've been
doing it for a lifetime.
Yeah.
They've just become mastersovernight of just staying in
(23:07):
that thicker cover and utilizingthat all the way up till they
break out into the clear cut atnight.
They'll stage in that stuffuntil they feel 100% assured
that they are safe and it's okayto go out.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Okay.
So we've talked about the glandsand all of that with the eyes.
So rubs and scrapes, we'vecovered a lot of that, but with
body positions and positioning,but they're picking up on the
rub, I would say, rubs andscrapes long before they see
them.
They can smell, they're they'regonna smell them, right, right,
(23:44):
and then they come in and seethat's the exact spot where they
might need to check in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
And I think that a popular misconception is that
buck has to be within so manyfeet to see if that doe is in
standing estrus.
And the reality is he can behundreds of yards away.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:03):
And if the wind is right, he'll pick up on it.
He knows she's in standingestrus, he knows where she's at
within 12 feet.
And yeah, I mean, their nose isabsolutely incredible.
It's better than a bear.
We just don't give them the dothat they deserve.
So when we see a buck or we seea field or or a clear cut and
there's does out there, and wemust think, well, obviously,
(24:26):
there's no bucks around becauseit's the rud and there's nothing
out there chasing her.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
That's not it at all.
They just have crossed downwind,whether it's a hundred yards,
two hundred yards, and they cantell, oh, nope, she's fine.
She's not in standing esterist.
I don't need to pay anyattention to her.
Yeah.
I need to make ground and coverground and find that one that
is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
They're looking for the right one.
Yeah.
So thinking about their eyes,now when they're for Whitehill,
it's I would say when they'reherded up or a little bit more,
because they're more likely tobe several as opposed to just a
couple or a few.
But it can happen, black tail,because they can be there can be
a few of them, but just deer ingeneral, their body positions or
(25:10):
you know, their ears or the waythat they're standing or
something.
They are communicating all thetime.
So if a deer looks at anotherdeer, if if that deer is
relaxed, what is that deerlooking like?
SPEAKER_00 (25:23):
Ears are forward or just twitching.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
And you know, they're talking about tail
wagging, too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:29):
Yeah, the tail twitches and everything just out
of relaxation and stuff.
When a deer gets to be on highalert, you're gonna notice that
tail either go up halfway orwith white tail, it'll go up
straight up, and they call that,you know, that flag.
The head is just kind of you cantell it's just relaxed.
The ears are just they'removing, but they're not rigid at
(25:52):
all and stuff.
Whereas when they get angry, forlack of a better term, or
territorial, even with doughs,you'll see the hair on the
ridgeline of their back start tostand up.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
It'll bristle up, and the ears will pin back.
Just like a horse when it getswhen it's about to buck, they
pin their ears back, and it'stheir way of communicating, hey,
this is I I don't like this.
This is not acceptable to me.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And especially bucks will notice right away when they
get upset or they feelterritorial or challenged, the
ears pin back, the hair bristlesup, and you'll notice that their
head, it doesn't sit, it doesn'tcome up all the way, it's kind
of straight out from theshoulders to just below it a
little bit, and it's like he'seyeing that other buck and kind
(26:43):
of sizing him up as to how thisis all gonna go down.
You know what I mean?
That that they're never straightup.
No, you know, it's gonna be downand it's gonna be almost like a
lurking kind of, I guess for alack of a better description.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Well, leading with the rat, the antlers.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, and they'll approach, so like a
deer, like a doe, if a doe isthere and stuff, he'll typically
approach.
Well, he could do either.
He'll either approach from thefront and go nose to nose, or if
it's the rut, he'll approachfrom behind and sniff.
With bucks, typically,especially during the rut, it's
from the rear.
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
Because they're wanting to stay out of the way
of weapons, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
And so it's like, okay, a better chance to react
if he has to take a while toturn around and that kind of
stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's get into the lastthing, talking about ears and
and how they're communicatingthrough sound.
Uh-huh.
So just real quick grunting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
Okay, so popular misconception is that only bucks
grunt, which could be furcouldn't be further from the
truth.
My son and I just came back fromKansas, and uh, you know, when
you have does that haveyearlings or fawns, and they're
by themselves, you can hear thatdoe grunting to that yearling or
(28:03):
fawn.
She's communicating to thatyearling and fawn through
grunts, as well as stomping andother forms of communication
that they do.
But she does grunt, and it's alower, softer grunt than bucks
do.
Obviously, bucks, especiallywhitetail, they get into that
roar where they're reallygrunting hard and whatnot.
(28:24):
Black tail tend to grunt softeranyway, they just do.
So usually when you hear a blacktail grunting, he's close.
He's close.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Yeah, and I did, I would say my first year I heard
grunting as I'm up in my ladderstand, down in the bedding area,
core area behind me, which wasdown a little bit of a ridge,
and I could hear grunting, but Ihad my game ears on that were
amplifying sound, right?
(28:54):
And it sounded a lot like a frogcroak, but different, more
guttural, right?
Not as crackly, I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
And a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and not like a frog willcroak, croak, uh-huh, croak.
And it's that rhythm wherethey'll just kind of let it out
and then you don't hear anythingelse.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
You might hear another one a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I've actually heard them snort wheeze more than I
hear them grunt.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Okay.
And so, well, let's before wemove on to the other ones, so
stomping.
What are they communicating whenthey're stomping?
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
So stomping communicates a lot.
They're either talking to theirfawns or their yearlings, and
it's, hey, pay attention.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:34):
I'm over here.
If it's somebody else's fawns oryearlings, it's you stay over
there.
They'll combine that with theirlittle head bob, doze wheel, to
try and get you to move.
If they're looking at you, ifthey've spotted you, it's their
way, hey, what are you?
Show yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
And then they'll do this head bob thing.
They'll put their head down,hold it there for a second, like
they were going to go down andeat, and then pop it right back
up, trying to catch you whileyou're moving.
And so, yeah, it's more ofwhenever they're stomping, and
whether it's combined with thehead bob or whatnot, it's pay
attention.
Something's up here.
Pay attention.
Lock on to what I'm talkingabout right now.
So it's a high alert kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
Okay.
So doe bleeds.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (30:17):
Is that like grunting?
SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
It's a doe's way of helping her being located.
Not just obviously during therut, she can do it to call for
other bucks.
Hey, I'm in standing estrus.
I'm receptive right now, butnobody has found me.
And they want to get bread.
Again, that's just nature's way,the continuance of the species.
(30:42):
And so they want to get bread.
So they will bleat, for lack ofa better term, loneliness andor
the need for companionship, asfar as we're in the rutting
phase of the year, and so now Ineed to be bred.
It can also help them be locatedif they're communicating to
their fawns and or yearlings.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Okay.
So fawn and distress or a fawn,because it's just a real
high-pitched kind of a whine.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Now, do they only communicate like when they're in
distress, or is it a here'swhere I'm at, come find me.
SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Typically, when when a fawn does a distress call,
yeah, you're gonna get a lot ofsmaller bucks and does running
into that because that fawn isin need of help.
It is in jeopardy, it doesn'tcry for any reason, for the most
part, not to give up itsposition, you know.
Okay.
So typically when a fawn is indistress, when they're doing
that fawn in distress, it's apredator that has probably
(31:42):
lashed hold of it and it'strying to get away and it's
calling to, you know, hey, help,help, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
So yeah, and it's a call that a lot of guys use in
September to bring in, andyou'll get a lot of spikes and
fork and horns coming into that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Okay.
And I did out in your backyardone night in I think it was in
August, I'd had a call, and youcan adjust it where it sounds
you can either do a grunt or doebleed or a fawn just by moving
the little rubber band on it andstuff.
But I called in a doe by doingthe fawn in distress.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
But by doing that, you can also, you've told me you
can blow out the area as far asthen they think there's a
predator and they won't comearound after a while.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
As with any call, you can educate the animals that
you're hunting with that.
If you overcall or if you'vebeen busted on that call, uh
they remember that, and everycall is distinct to them.
To us, it all sounds like thesame thing.
Well, that's just another fawnin distress.
Well, they know exactly whatfawn it is.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
You know what I mean?
And that fawn is calling to thedeer herd, not just to its
mother.
It's calling to the deer herdsaying, Hey, I'm in trouble.
If a buck comes in or a doecomes in and you don't get the
shot or you let it walk orwhatever, and they are able to
spot you and see you, they'regonna correlate that call every
time they hear it with humans.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Okay.
So the last one, snort wheeze.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
My favorite.
Okay, absolutely my favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
What are they communicating with us?
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
So a snort wheeze is definitely a challenge.
It is a dominant response, it isa killer for bucks, so long as
the buck does not have a doe.
If the buck has a doe, she'sgonna turn and go the other way.
And she's gonna take the buckthat you're trying to get to
come in to go with her.
To go with her.
(33:38):
You know, she's been chasedalready, she's got a buck on her
tail.
Why would she want to go towardanother buck?
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
It's detrimental to your hunt if you do it then.
But if you can see that buck, ifyou can visually lay eyes on
that buck and he is by himself,and you're in any part of that
rut phase, and you do a snort,99% of the time it's gonna pull
him in.
Now, what happens is he'lleither turn on a dime and come
(34:05):
straight in, or he'll look overat you, show like he's not
interested, disappear out ofyour vision, and he'll circle
around to get the wind in hisfavor, and he'll pop out right
next to you.
I don't have countless timesthat's happened to me.
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
So both does this work with white tail, black
tail, yes, for both of them.
Everything?
SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (34:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
I and Snortwhee's is awesome because you can just do
it with your mouth.
You know, it but you know whenthey hear it, because they're
gonna just all of a suddenthey're gonna lock up, the head
is gonna go up, and they'regonna look your direction and
they're gonna stare yourdirection.
Because what you'recommunicating to him is I have a
hot dough over here, stay away.
Okay, and then he's gonna lookat you and he's trying to find
(34:49):
you, he's trying to find thedough.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Especially if he's the dominant buck.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Especially if he's a dominant buck.
And then you just and uh like Isaid, he'll either turn and come
straight in, or if he's a littlenervous, he'll disappear out of
your sight, he'll go right intothe bushes, but he's circling
around you.
So even if they look likethey're walking away, get ready
because within the next 15minutes, he's probably gonna pop
out right next to you somewhere.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
Is there a kind of a blowing noise that they make for
that signals danger?
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Yeah, and though you'll hear them do it a lot.
Small bucks will do it as well.
Big bucks don't tend to.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
But yeah, you'll hear a doe blow.
It's that and that's a warning.
Now I will say this.
It's gotten overrated in thesense that every time somebody
goes and they sits in a standand they hear a doe blow, they
think, oh, my hunt's over.
It is not.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
It's not even close.
Because you're not the onlypredator out there.
They've got bobcats out there,they've got coyotes out there.
Deer startle deer.
Elk, they don't like beingaround elk.
Elk will startle deer andthey'll blow.
Again, we just came back fromKansas and I sat there and I
watched this deer, this doe,blow.
We had a coyote go by, and shestood there and she was blowing
(36:06):
at the coyote, and the otherdeer, there were three other
deer, and they just they didn'teven lift their heads.
They just kept feeding on theclover and stuff that were
around them.
They didn't even care.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
You know, it's like that's just Karen.
She's out of control with hercomplaining about this and that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
She's part of the HOA.
But no, until that doe takesoff, until she greyhounds out of
there, it's like everybody'sjust like, okay, all right, let
us know when it gets serious.
Uh-huh.
And so I think that we overreadthat in the sense that, oh, we
hear a doe blow, oh, the hunt'sover.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
I've been blown out, and now there's no chance.
That's not the case at all.
So that's been my experience.
SPEAKER_01 (36:47):
All righty.
Well, thanks everybody forlistening to us.
If you could go and leave acomment, leave a like, heart,
subscribe, follow, all thosethings that you need to do on
your platform that would reallyhelp.
It helps push us out throughalgorithms and whatnot.
And if you want more content,exclusive content, feel free to
(37:08):
join our Patreon community.
Check our affiliates down belowif you need to buy any products,
and we will talk to you all nextweek.
Welcome back to the Blackdale Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
And I'm Dave.
Okay, this week we're talkingabout deer communication and how
they communicate with theirnose, their eyes, and their
ears, mostly with each other.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
And so with the nose.
And we can talk about urine,doanesterus, because we use
those scents, but those arebecause they're containing some
glandular secretions as well.
And they're communicatingsomething like with the tarsal
glands, is the bucks.
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
So first talking about the orbital glands.
So these are the ones that arein front of the eyes.
Yes.
And I didn't realize that theyhad those, and then they have
forehead glands.
And those are communicating twoseparate intentions, yes.
Yeah, two different intentions.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Yeah.
So the orbital gland, many of usthat are deer hunters, been deer
hunting for a while or whatnot,or have any kind of whitetail
background, understand thatbucks use them in scrapes.
Whitetail do a lot of scrapes,and so there's always what we
call a licking branch that isabove the scrape where they will
(01:21):
take and they will secrete stuffout of their orbital gland and
onto that licking branch.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Where the forehead glands are different.
Those are used for like rubs.
And it each is communicatingsomething different to the deer.
unknown (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Orbital gland and black tail do scrapes, they just
don't do them as often as whitetail.
I have seen black tail doscrapes, but again, it's not
very often.
And I don't know why that is.
In all my readings that I'venever come across as to why
black tail don't do it as muchas whitetail.
I know that we've got plenty ofopportunity out here with all
(01:59):
the trees that we have for doingscrapes.
Scrapes and doing the lickingbranch and all that.
But yeah, I don't see him do itas much, but I have seen them do
it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
With mine, and I didn't realize that I was
walking by a scrape on my set.
So I don't know when it wasactually made.
Now, are those primarily ruttingor yeah, they're made during
they're made during the rut.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Okay.
And just like whitetail, a lotof the scrapes that are made by
black tail, they don't alwayscome back to, you know.
But most of them are a one or atwo-time thing, and then they're
abandoned, you know.
Or they just downsize to, okay,I'm gonna use this one, and I
have a high traffic of doescoming through because the dough
come along and she'll pee inthat scrape, or another buck
(02:50):
will pee in that scrape, andthen he'll take and use a
licking branch to leave somefluid out of the orbital gland
on that licking branch.
And it can be to identify, itcan be to challenge, it can be
to mark territory.
There's a whole plethora ofthings that they go through as
far as the way they communicatewith that particular thing, you
(03:13):
as far as scrapes and lickingbranches and whatnot with the
orbital gland.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
But I don't know that I've ever seen Blacktail
use a scrape consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
As much as I see them using rub a rub line
consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yes.
And I've have I found well, oneof my sets I never found
anything that was, I would callwell, just any rubs at all.
Uh-huh.
I did find, and we'll actuallyget into talking the difference
in rubs.
There were some rubs somewhatclose to my riverside set, but I
did have a rub line, my hilltopset, uh-huh, and I created a rub
(03:53):
line at my halfway set, bothalong that scotch broom, and
we've talked about that.
But also this year I noticedthat they started doing a rub
line up just off my set, 20yards off my set, on that main
trail heading up the hillside byby where I was hunting.
And that was a first seeing anyrubs up in there.
(04:15):
That was an area that they thatwould necessarily more of a
travel corridor.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Right, right.
And not that they wouldn't do italong a travel corridor because
they But they're mostlyinterested where there's a lot
of doe interaction, yeah, youknow, where the does are
traveling as well, not just thebox.
Like when I look for a rub line,I want an annual rub line.
I don't want a seasonal onewhere it's coming, oh, this
season they did it over here,and then the following season
they did it somewhere else.
(04:41):
An annual is one where they'llcome back year after year after
year.
And you'll walk into it, andthere's no doubt when you see
one, because there's 30 to 40rubs, you know, yeah, in that
rub line, because it's multipleyears of them coming back and
you can tell and utilizing that.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Like uh, this is an old rub is that looks like a rub
from last season.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
This one looks like it's like three years old, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
And you can tell which ones are fresh, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Right.
And that's ideally a great setupbecause those bucks are coming
back year after year after year,which means the doughs are
traveling through there to markthose rubs.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
Now they're doing the rubs, and the and you've
talked about the differencebetween annual and dominance
rubs, not rub lines, becausedominance rubs are more spotty.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
And so actually just explain those real quick.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Okay, so an annual rub line, like I just said, is a
rub line that has come backseason after season after
season.
The bucks continue to use it.
And there are there arecharacteristics of it in the
sense that you can tell what themain travel way of a certain
buck is because they're gonnarub it on the side that they're
coming from.
So it'll be the side of the treethat they approach first, and
(05:55):
then they walk past it.
So you can look at that annualrub line and say, Oh, the
bedding area must be back thisway because they keep coming
from this direction, headingthat direction.
So you learn how to read thatrub line in that sense.
But a dominance rub, so guys,those I'll be doing a seminar,
and guys will come up to me.
Well, you know, I've beenhunting clear cuts and
everything, and I see all theserubs out in the clear cuts, and
(06:17):
it's like, well, there's gottabe bucks here, you know.
And a lot of them, what whatguys fail to realize is a lot of
those rubs are done at night.
Yeah.
Because big bucks don't veryseldom, I don't, they typically
don't want to be out in a clearcut.
That doesn't mean you can't killa big buck out in a clear cut.
I'm just saying, typicallyspeaking, they don't like to be
(06:39):
out in a clear cut.
So when you start seeing a lotof rubs out in a clear cut, most
of the time it is done at night.
And what happens is during therut phase, what happens is the
does go out to these clear cutsat night and they feed.
Well, the bucks come out atnight too and they feed.
And that's when they're out inthe clear cuts, is at night.
(06:59):
And what happens is a buck mayhave a dough locked down, or he
may encounter another buck, andhe's either trying to establish
his dominance over that buckthat he sees, or he's simply
being territorial saying, I'mover here, you're over there.
So, what he'll do in a dominantresponse of seeing another buck,
(07:20):
whether he's got a dough lockeddown, or if he's just trying to
establish territory, he looksover, he sees the other buck.
Out of a show of dominance, hedoes a rub.
Okay.
And then in response, the buckthat he is trying to establish
boundaries with will in turn doa rub.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
And so now we've got two rubs out in the middle of
this clear cut, and they lookfresh.
And honestly, there's a lot ofdoes out there, so these bucks
are out moving around at night.
So you may get anywhere 12, 15rubs in a clear cut.
You're thinking, oh my gosh,this is nuts.
These bucks are in here all thetime.
And you can spend days and daysand days sitting on that clear
(08:01):
cut and not see the buck thatmakes that rub because he's
coming out at night.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
Those are the forehead gland.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
And the thing is, they don't come back to those
rubs.
No, those rubs are simply madeagain as a display of dominance
toward another buck that they'veencountered, and it's not a
breeding type scenario.
Whereas when we see a rub line,we see a breeding type scenario.
These bucks go through and theyleave, not they don't just do a
(08:31):
rub, they do a rub, they pee ontheir tarsal glands, and then
they'll rub the orbital glandand sometimes a forehead gland
on that rub to not only let theother bucks know who they are
and where they are in theranking of dominant to least
(08:51):
dominant, but they also do itbecause the does will walk
through those rub lines, and thedoes, just by nature, want to be
bred by the dominant buck andthe one right underneath them.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
For the preservation of the species, you know,
survival of the fittest, so tospeak.
And so they are going throughand they're leaving their scent
on those rubs as well.
And the annual rub line is whatyou're looking for.
And I've never found one in aclear cut, I've always found
them in the heavy brush, like wetalk about it in the seminars
(09:25):
and in the classes andeverything, where we have two
habitats coming together and wegot an edge.
There's a certain habitat thatthese bucks look for to do these
rub lines.
And when you find it, there's nodoubt about it.
It's just obvious.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
And a lot of those, well, skitter roads.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Overgrown skitter roads are great.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Alders or viny maples.
And so as I was looking thisstuff up ahead of time, it was
territory, identity, and socialranking, is what they convey
through this.
And then but they're rubbing, isit just their orbital or just
their forehead?
(10:06):
Or is it both?
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
It's both.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
It's both during the rub.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
Yeah.
So if it's a dominance rub, thenit's probably gonna be more
forehead on it.
Yeah.
You know, for the identificationand and territory, territory,
that kind of stuff, you know.
And then I think more andorbital too, but I mean, for me,
uh my opinion is the orbital ismore for the mating or breeding
(10:31):
side of it.
It it also identifies it andestablishes territory, but it
also is like saying, okay, thisbecause of what we've talked
about in the past as far asblack tail living that living
the entirety of their livesinside of 51 acres, those deer
have smelled everybody there,everyone inside of that 51
(10:53):
acres.
So when he leaves that scentfrom the gland on there, he is
identifying himself, and thenhe's establishing I'm the
dominant buck, or I'm thisranking.
And those again, those does comethrough there, and they can
smell where that dominant buckhas been, and that's where they
leave their scent because theywant to get bred by that
(11:15):
dominant buck.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
The following, and one of the guys in coaching had
a really good video of a buckcoming and leaving a rub, and
then a while later, the doecoming in and licking the rub.
Yeah, and then the buck comingback in, leaving another rub, or
it was a different buck.
I can't remember if it was twodifferent bucks on that one
(11:37):
particular rub, and then anotherdoe coming in, or that same doe
coming in, and again, kind ofchecking who came by, right, who
left this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
And a lot of that occurs in the early part of the
first rut.
Because at a certain point, thedoes are tired of being chased,
so they start hiding from thebucks because they're tired of
being pestered, you know.
And then when the dominant buckfinds them, he's the one who
locks them down.
The dominant and the one rightunderneath him, they lock down
that doe and they kind of keepher from everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I saw I was also while I was researching this
that they can convey health ofthe buck through those glands.
Right.
And I imagine it's they'rechecking that out to see who's
healthy or if is that dominantbuck healthy still, or if
there's something wrong.
But I did for the Patreon guys,I did a video showing the
(12:32):
difference between because onone of my sets I have dominance
rubs, and it's out in it's not aclear cut, but it's a jack fur
patch that's really wide open,like four to six foot jackfur.
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
So real small stuff that they wouldn't necessarily
not a bedding area.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
But showed rubs in there, and then I showed on one
of my sets an annual rub linedown the viny maples and the
alders down the middle of it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Right.
There's you know, huntingtechniques, ambushing and or
sitting groundblinder treestand, that annual rub line is
going to be much more productivethan the clear cut.
And I say that in regards toyou'll catch the smaller bucks
out there.
And if you're happy with that,great.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
But if you're wanting something larger, then
yeah, that annual rub line iswhat you're looking for.
And again, like I said, once youfind it, it's been so
established over the seasons,over the years, that you just
know.
I mean, it's nothing to have 20,30, and it may only be two bucks
working that rub line.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Yeah.
But yeah, there can be it'severy tree or every other tree.
Yeah.
Or it's 10 in a row, they skip acouple and then it's another 10
in a row or something.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
I like it when you can find one and it's like every
size of tree.
So you know you've got bigbucks, small bucks, medium
bucks, all using that rub line.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
You know, that makes things more exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
So jumping into let's talk about there's the
tarsal glands and metatarsalglands.
Uh-huh.
And one of the things that whenI was researching this, is they
said that for the metatarsalglands, that for white tail,
those are kind of a vestigialorgan.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
That they have them, but they don't use them so much.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
And that's the metatarsal.
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Metatarsal.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Which is on the outside of the leg, not on the
inside.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
And that, but for black tail and for mule deer,
that they're still they activelyuse those for it's kind of a
warning system and a high alert,and it's for a synchronized
escape.
So basically, if a deer, Iguess, uh, are smelling
secretions from this gland andthey're running off towards the
(14:57):
east, that tells all the otherdeer, run towards the east
because that was the saferdirection.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
You gotta think of it like a mister, you know.
All of a sudden they startsmelling that, and that's all I
need to know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
You know, it goes back to what we've said on
previous episodes that deer arenot reliant on their eyes or
ears as much as they are relianton their nose.
Yeah.
That is their first line ofdefense.
And so, yeah, the metatarsal isa totally different application
in comparison to the tarsalglands.
Tarsal glands, it's a totalbreeding scenario where they pee
(15:35):
on the tarsal gland.
And what's funny is you see themin the summer, and that tarsal
gland is typically it's the hairis bushier, so it's it like
stands out, but it's the samecolor as the rest of the coat.
As we get into the breedingseason, that urine will stain
those tarsal glands dark, yeah,either black or dark, dark
(15:59):
brown.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
You know what one of the things that I don't know how
accurate this was, because it asI'm looking all this stuff up,
it talks about dominance, itshares the testosterone levels
of the bucks.
So the darker the stain, thehigher the testosterone level.
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Right, right.
So the younger bucks typicallydon't get as dark as your older
bucks get as far as their tarsalglands, which I kind of
correlate with, okay, they'redoing more of the breeding than
the younger bucks are.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Yeah.
It's interesting because I hadnever thought about looking at
that for helping for age orunderstanding the dominance.
And I know there's more to whothe dominant or the secondary
buck is that's not relatednecessarily to age.
Because I've had a mature buck,four and a half-year-old, where
he wasn't the dominant buck inthat area.
(16:51):
Right.
There were two others thatdwarfed him, maybe not
body-wise, but just the rack andeverything else.
And now it'd be interesting togo back because I think I have
good enough pictures of two ofthem where I could actually look
at those tarsal glands in thatarea just to see how dark they
are and see if there's any kindof comparison.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Right.
And it can be deceiving in thesense that at a certain age, it
will like when a buck gets to beeight and a half, nine years
old, nine and a half years old,they're almost impossible to
kill.
Because they lose interest inthe rut.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Well, their testosterone probably drops off
like that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
So if you look at their, if you look at their
tarsal glands, they're not gonnabe as dark as a buck that's
hitting his prime, five and ahalf, six and a half years old,
seven and a half years old.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
So, you know, that's why aging is more a skeletal
thing than it is stuff likethis.
Because as they get older, theyjust lose interest, you know,
and we all see it on TV.
We watch the hunting shows, andyou see that bull out in the
meadow, and it's September, andyou're watching, and the guy is
throwing everything but thekitchen sink at him, and the
bull is just out there feeding.
(18:04):
He's got no cows, doesn't careabout anything.
Well, it's because he's reachedan age where the rut isn't what
drives him anymore.
We start tapering off.
It's the same with guys.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
He's heading up for the ladies, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Your drive lessons and that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
You put up with her long enough.
It's just time to move on.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
You know, what is the commercial that they have?
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Your T levels like medication commercial?
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah, with flutie on there.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Oh, yeah, whatever, neutrodenics.
Yeah, neugenics, that's what itis.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Yeah, so they're not passing out nugenics anywhere
out there in the field.
So, you know, these deer, oncethey lose interest, it's all a
downhill slide.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
But it makes them almost impossible to kill
because they don't slip up.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:48):
There's nothing that's making them stupid.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Well, those situations you just want to be
hanging up by the food source.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or the bed, the core area, thatbedroom.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Yeah.
So orbital glands, tarsal,metatarsal, forehead gland.
We talked about all those.
Last one, and I didn't actuallyknow about these until I started
researching the interdigitalglands.
Uh-huh.
So the gl there's a gland inbetween their hooves.
Yep.
That and this, so this isinteresting because it it's
(19:21):
communicating to other deer thattheir direction of travel, their
identity, who's traveling, andit's marking trails that they're
using.
Right.
And so I've kind of wonderedwhy, or, and maybe it's not
necessarily a product that likeTeenks or Conquest or you know,
(19:41):
that companies that make DoanEstris or or these gland
products or synthetic versionsof them, that seems like that
would be a handy or a goodproduct to create.
And maybe that's communicated bysome of the when we do drags.
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Right, right.
And I kind of look at it for mepersonally, the way I look at
the interdigital is simply this.
When they're marking trails, alot of times they're marking
escape routes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
So they've been spooked, and next time you get a
deer, just look in between thehooves.
There's a slit right in there.
It's really obvious.
And that gland, I mean, as soonas they get all tensed up, and
it just they've been startled.
And all of a sudden they'rejust, you've seen a deer, they
just lock up.
It's like, oh, okay, what'sgood?
And the head snaps up and theystart looking.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
They are seconds away from starting to pump out
out of that interdigital gland,that warning, okay, because it's
there's the relaxing that comesout of there, as well as okay,
high alert.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
And then they do, they mark trails as far as
escape routes.
And so when they come into aset, if you've buggered that
that buck or a doe or or asmaller buck or any deer while
you were in stand or in blind,they're gonna leave a marker
there that is going to make itso that even though you have a
bedding pheromone out, it willstill not allow that deer to
(21:11):
relax.
They will come in on pins andneedles.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Well, and a deer wouldn't be able to tell that
when the bedding pheromone wasput out.
And right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Well, they can they can tell how old it is.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
You know, once they've been buggered on a set,
it's really hard to get them torelax after that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
That's why I tell guys, you've got to mind your
entries and your exits.
You're hunting from the time youget out of the pickup to the
time you get back.
You have to be in stealth mode.
To think that the only time youneed to be quiet or sneaky or
invisible last 30 yards, it'snot.
It's not.
It's from the time you get outof that pickup, you just go into
(21:52):
hunt mode and you need to staythat way until you get back.
Because these animalscommunicate not by sight.
You know, there's grunting andall that.
Yeah, they do do that, but it'smore about sense that they put
out, and hence the reason thatwe've based our whole system on
that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
And that's the first thing that they're gonna get
into.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
So you've mentioned that the big bucks don't take
the same trails as the does andthe small bucks.
Right.
Now, is that something where abig buck they're walking along?
Okay, that's a trail that littlebucks are using or does are
using.
I don't necessarily want to takethat right now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
But yes and no.
I mean, I think instinctively itwhen they reach a certain age,
it's usually about athree-point.
They start wanting and desiringcover more than the does and the
smaller bucks.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Now, I don't know if that's got anything to do with
the scent that's being laid outor anything like that.
There's just something about it,when they hit that age marker,
they all of a sudden want tostick to the thicker cover.
They start using that thickercover.
By the time they hit four and ahalf, it's like they've been
doing it for a lifetime.
Yeah.
They've just become mastersovernight of just staying in
(23:07):
that thicker cover and utilizingthat all the way up till they
break out into the clear cut atnight.
They'll stage in that stuffuntil they feel 100% assured
that they are safe and it's okayto go out.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Okay.
So we've talked about the glandsand all of that with the eyes.
So rubs and scrapes, we'vecovered a lot of that, but with
body positions and positioning,but they're picking up on the
rub, I would say, rubs andscrapes long before they see
them.
They can smell, they're they'regonna smell them, right, right,
(23:44):
and then they come in and seethat's the exact spot where they
might need to check in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
And I think that a popular misconception is that
buck has to be within so manyfeet to see if that doe is in
standing estrus.
And the reality is he can behundreds of yards away.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:03):
And if the wind is right, he'll pick up on it.
He knows she's in standingestrus, he knows where she's at
within 12 feet.
And yeah, I mean, their nose isabsolutely incredible.
It's better than a bear.
We just don't give them the dothat they deserve.
So when we see a buck or we seea field or or a clear cut and
there's does out there, and wemust think, well, obviously,
(24:26):
there's no bucks around becauseit's the rud and there's nothing
out there chasing her.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
That's not it at all.
They just have crossed downwind,whether it's a hundred yards,
two hundred yards, and they cantell, oh, nope, she's fine.
She's not in standing esterist.
I don't need to pay anyattention to her.
Yeah.
I need to make ground and coverground and find that one that
is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
They're looking for the right one.
Yeah.
So thinking about their eyes,now when they're for Whitehill,
it's I would say when they'reherded up or a little bit more,
because they're more likely tobe several as opposed to just a
couple or a few.
But it can happen, black tail,because they can be there can be
a few of them, but just deer ingeneral, their body positions or
(25:10):
you know, their ears or the waythat they're standing or
something.
They are communicating all thetime.
So if a deer looks at anotherdeer, if if that deer is
relaxed, what is that deerlooking like?
SPEAKER_00 (25:23):
Ears are forward or just twitching.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
And you know, they're talking about tail
wagging, too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:29):
Yeah, the tail twitches and everything just out
of relaxation and stuff.
When a deer gets to be on highalert, you're gonna notice that
tail either go up halfway orwith white tail, it'll go up
straight up, and they call that,you know, that flag.
The head is just kind of you cantell it's just relaxed.
The ears are just they'removing, but they're not rigid at
(25:52):
all and stuff.
Whereas when they get angry, forlack of a better term, or
territorial, even with doughs,you'll see the hair on the
ridgeline of their back start tostand up.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
It'll bristle up, and the ears will pin back.
Just like a horse when it getswhen it's about to buck, they
pin their ears back, and it'stheir way of communicating, hey,
this is I I don't like this.
This is not acceptable to me.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And especially bucks will notice right away when they
get upset or they feelterritorial or challenged, the
ears pin back, the hair bristlesup, and you'll notice that their
head, it doesn't sit, it doesn'tcome up all the way, it's kind
of straight out from theshoulders to just below it a
little bit, and it's like he'seyeing that other buck and kind
(26:43):
of sizing him up as to how thisis all gonna go down.
You know what I mean?
That that they're never straightup.
No, you know, it's gonna be downand it's gonna be almost like a
lurking kind of, I guess for alack of a better description.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Well, leading with the rat, the antlers.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, and they'll approach, so like a
deer, like a doe, if a doe isthere and stuff, he'll typically
approach.
Well, he could do either.
He'll either approach from thefront and go nose to nose, or if
it's the rut, he'll approachfrom behind and sniff.
With bucks, typically,especially during the rut, it's
from the rear.
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
Because they're wanting to stay out of the way
of weapons, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
And so it's like, okay, a better chance to react
if he has to take a while toturn around and that kind of
stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's get into the lastthing, talking about ears and
and how they're communicatingthrough sound.
Uh-huh.
So just real quick grunting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
Okay, so popular misconception is that only bucks
grunt, which could be furcouldn't be further from the
truth.
My son and I just came back fromKansas, and uh, you know, when
you have does that haveyearlings or fawns, and they're
by themselves, you can hear thatdoe grunting to that yearling or
(28:03):
fawn.
She's communicating to thatyearling and fawn through
grunts, as well as stomping andother forms of communication
that they do.
But she does grunt, and it's alower, softer grunt than bucks
do.
Obviously, bucks, especiallywhitetail, they get into that
roar where they're reallygrunting hard and whatnot.
(28:24):
Black tail tend to grunt softeranyway, they just do.
So usually when you hear a blacktail grunting, he's close.
He's close.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Yeah, and I did, I would say my first year I heard
grunting as I'm up in my ladderstand, down in the bedding area,
core area behind me, which wasdown a little bit of a ridge,
and I could hear grunting, but Ihad my game ears on that were
amplifying sound, right?
(28:54):
And it sounded a lot like a frogcroak, but different, more
guttural, right?
Not as crackly, I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
And a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and not like a frog willcroak, croak, uh-huh, croak.
And it's that rhythm wherethey'll just kind of let it out
and then you don't hear anythingelse.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
You might hear another one a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I've actually heard them snort wheeze more than I
hear them grunt.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Okay.
And so, well, let's before wemove on to the other ones, so
stomping.
What are they communicating whenthey're stomping?
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
So stomping communicates a lot.
They're either talking to theirfawns or their yearlings, and
it's, hey, pay attention.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:34):
I'm over here.
If it's somebody else's fawns oryearlings, it's you stay over
there.
They'll combine that with theirlittle head bob, doze wheel, to
try and get you to move.
If they're looking at you, ifthey've spotted you, it's their
way, hey, what are you?
Show yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
And then they'll do this head bob thing.
They'll put their head down,hold it there for a second, like
they were going to go down andeat, and then pop it right back
up, trying to catch you whileyou're moving.
And so, yeah, it's more ofwhenever they're stomping, and
whether it's combined with thehead bob or whatnot, it's pay
attention.
Something's up here.
Pay attention.
Lock on to what I'm talkingabout right now.
So it's a high alert kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
Okay.
So doe bleeds.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (30:17):
Is that like grunting?
SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
It's a doe's way of helping her being located.
Not just obviously during therut, she can do it to call for
other bucks.
Hey, I'm in standing estrus.
I'm receptive right now, butnobody has found me.
And they want to get bread.
Again, that's just nature's way,the continuance of the species.
(30:42):
And so they want to get bread.
So they will bleat, for lack ofa better term, loneliness andor
the need for companionship, asfar as we're in the rutting
phase of the year, and so now Ineed to be bred.
It can also help them be locatedif they're communicating to
their fawns and or yearlings.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Okay.
So fawn and distress or a fawn,because it's just a real
high-pitched kind of a whine.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Now, do they only communicate like when they're in
distress, or is it a here'swhere I'm at, come find me.
SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Typically, when when a fawn does a distress call,
yeah, you're gonna get a lot ofsmaller bucks and does running
into that because that fawn isin need of help.
It is in jeopardy, it doesn'tcry for any reason, for the most
part, not to give up itsposition, you know.
Okay.
So typically when a fawn is indistress, when they're doing
that fawn in distress, it's apredator that has probably
(31:42):
lashed hold of it and it'strying to get away and it's
calling to, you know, hey, help,help, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
So yeah, and it's a call that a lot of guys use in
September to bring in, andyou'll get a lot of spikes and
fork and horns coming into that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Okay.
And I did out in your backyardone night in I think it was in
August, I'd had a call, and youcan adjust it where it sounds
you can either do a grunt or doebleed or a fawn just by moving
the little rubber band on it andstuff.
But I called in a doe by doingthe fawn in distress.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
But by doing that, you can also, you've told me you
can blow out the area as far asthen they think there's a
predator and they won't comearound after a while.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
As with any call, you can educate the animals that
you're hunting with that.
If you overcall or if you'vebeen busted on that call, uh
they remember that, and everycall is distinct to them.
To us, it all sounds like thesame thing.
Well, that's just another fawnin distress.
Well, they know exactly whatfawn it is.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
You know what I mean?
And that fawn is calling to thedeer herd, not just to its
mother.
It's calling to the deer herdsaying, Hey, I'm in trouble.
If a buck comes in or a doecomes in and you don't get the
shot or you let it walk orwhatever, and they are able to
spot you and see you, they'regonna correlate that call every
time they hear it with humans.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Okay.
So the last one, snort wheeze.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
My favorite.
Okay, absolutely my favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
What are they communicating with us?
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
So a snort wheeze is definitely a challenge.
It is a dominant response, it isa killer for bucks, so long as
the buck does not have a doe.
If the buck has a doe, she'sgonna turn and go the other way.
And she's gonna take the buckthat you're trying to get to
come in to go with her.
To go with her.
(33:38):
You know, she's been chasedalready, she's got a buck on her
tail.
Why would she want to go towardanother buck?
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
It's detrimental to your hunt if you do it then.
But if you can see that buck, ifyou can visually lay eyes on
that buck and he is by himself,and you're in any part of that
rut phase, and you do a snort,99% of the time it's gonna pull
him in.
Now, what happens is he'lleither turn on a dime and come
(34:05):
straight in, or he'll look overat you, show like he's not
interested, disappear out ofyour vision, and he'll circle
around to get the wind in hisfavor, and he'll pop out right
next to you.
I don't have countless timesthat's happened to me.
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
So both does this work with white tail, black
tail, yes, for both of them.
Everything?
SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (34:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
I and Snortwhee's is awesome because you can just do
it with your mouth.
You know, it but you know whenthey hear it, because they're
gonna just all of a suddenthey're gonna lock up, the head
is gonna go up, and they'regonna look your direction and
they're gonna stare yourdirection.
Because what you'recommunicating to him is I have a
hot dough over here, stay away.
Okay, and then he's gonna lookat you and he's trying to find
(34:49):
you, he's trying to find thedough.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Especially if he's the dominant buck.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Especially if he's a dominant buck.
And then you just and uh like Isaid, he'll either turn and come
straight in, or if he's a littlenervous, he'll disappear out of
your sight, he'll go right intothe bushes, but he's circling
around you.
So even if they look likethey're walking away, get ready
because within the next 15minutes, he's probably gonna pop
out right next to you somewhere.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
Is there a kind of a blowing noise that they make for
that signals danger?
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Yeah, and though you'll hear them do it a lot.
Small bucks will do it as well.
Big bucks don't tend to.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
But yeah, you'll hear a doe blow.
It's that and that's a warning.
Now I will say this.
It's gotten overrated in thesense that every time somebody
goes and they sits in a standand they hear a doe blow, they
think, oh, my hunt's over.
It is not.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
It's not even close.
Because you're not the onlypredator out there.
They've got bobcats out there,they've got coyotes out there.
Deer startle deer.
Elk, they don't like beingaround elk.
Elk will startle deer andthey'll blow.
Again, we just came back fromKansas and I sat there and I
watched this deer, this doe,blow.
We had a coyote go by, and shestood there and she was blowing
(36:06):
at the coyote, and the otherdeer, there were three other
deer, and they just they didn'teven lift their heads.
They just kept feeding on theclover and stuff that were
around them.
They didn't even care.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
You know, it's like that's just Karen.
She's out of control with hercomplaining about this and that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
She's part of the HOA.
But no, until that doe takesoff, until she greyhounds out of
there, it's like everybody'sjust like, okay, all right, let
us know when it gets serious.
Uh-huh.
And so I think that we overreadthat in the sense that, oh, we
hear a doe blow, oh, the hunt'sover.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
I've been blown out, and now there's no chance.
That's not the case at all.
So that's been my experience.
SPEAKER_01 (36:47):
All righty.
Well, thanks everybody forlistening to us.
If you could go and leave acomment, leave a like, heart,
subscribe, follow, all thosethings that you need to do on
your platform that would reallyhelp.
It helps push us out throughalgorithms and whatnot.
And if you want more content,exclusive content, feel free to
(37:08):
join our Patreon community.
Check our affiliates down belowif you need to buy any products,
and we will talk to you all nextweek.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com