November 3, 2025 • 35 mins
When the sky flips, deer and elk rewrite their script—and we show you how to read it. From August scorchers to winter squalls, we map out what animals actually do in heat, wind, rain, snow, and sudden barometric swings so you can plan smarter sits and stay safe doing it. We start with early season strategy: water and wallows for elk, shady alder–conifer drainages for blacktail, and the way thermals carry cool air and scent through the places bucks already prefer. You’ll hear why rotating shade is a real tactic for deer, and how that scraggly summer coat changes where and when you’ll see them.
Then we tackle wind with two truths hunters often miss: moderate wind can be your ally, but big timber and big gusts introduce real danger. We compare open-country whitetail movement in high winds to how blacktail and elk tuck into leeward pockets, and we lay out practical setups that balance visibility, scent, and safety. Rain is where most folks misread sign; we explain why steady showers tend to bed deer down, how hard bursts push them to their feet, and why the best movement happens between showers and right at the edges of a front. Layer in pressure trends and you get a reliable forecast for daylight activity—rising numbers are great, but sharp drops can kickstart prefront feeding too.
Snow and extreme cold bring their own gifts. Fresh tracks make patterns obvious, post-squall movement can be fast and generous, and cold snaps elevate mid-day action as animals burn calories to stay warm. We also clear up rut confusion: day length sets timing, heat simply shifts the show into the night. Finally, we draw a hard line on thunderstorms and dangerous winds—lightning, falling timber, and overloaded senses make those windows not worth the risk.
Want more filled tags and fewer empty sits? Watch the radar, track pressure, and hunt the moment of change. If this breakdown helped sharpen your plan, follow the show, share it with a hunting buddy, and leave a quick review telling us your best “between showers” or “after the front” success story.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
And I'm Dave.
Okay, so we're going to talktoday about extreme weather.
Hunting in extreme weather.
So extreme heat, windstorms,rainfall, snow, sort of
thunderstorms, if there's reallyany difference there.
Just thinking about this becausewe have this as we're recording,
(00:33):
although this won't come out fora couple of weeks, the
atmospheric river, which dumpinga bunch of rain and a bunch of
wind that popped up, which assoon as I saw the wind, I bailed
on my hunt for the day, justbecause last year windstorm blew
through in one of my spots thatI'd set up at, and three trees
(00:53):
came down that would have comedown on top of me.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
There's a little element of danger added to the
hunt that can significantlybeing crushed by a tree being
one of.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
So let's start off early season, the extreme heat
that you get into.
Because I know with late uhAugust, California, if they're
because their black tail startseither in late July or early
August.
Depending on the zone you'rehunting in.
And it's just hotter down there.
So what and this can be deer orelk, but what are they doing
(01:27):
differently when it startsgetting really hot?
You know?
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
I would say at that time of season, late August,
early September, and eventhroughout all of September,
because we really don't get intofall till somewhere in the
middle of October.
We start seeing the change inweather patterns.
A lot of guys are focusing onelk.
There are some guys that aredoing deer, but most guys are
focusing on elk because that'sthe rut.
(01:51):
Both species are going to stayrelatively close to water, I
would say.
It's going to be in their dailyroutine somehow.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
Okay.
So elk, it would be, you know, aplace not only for the cows to
drink, but a place for the bullsto wallow.
And I've always done really goodwhen it's really hot because I
don't have any problems sittingon wallows and being patient for
a bull to come use it.
And he does that when thathormonal buildup it reaches a
(02:21):
certain point and he's hot andhe needs to exert some energy to
bring those levels down.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
And so for me, early season as far as elk hunting,
the hotter, the better I do.
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:33):
But I mean, we've been up in the blues and gone to
bed, and it was 95 to 100degrees that day.
Wake up the next morning andthere's 10 inches of snow on the
ground.
Yeah.
You know, and the bulls arestill talking.
So, you know, I I've been inthat situation.
And that's always fun to bootbugle up bulls in the snow.
It's not something that thateverybody gets to do, uh, you
(02:54):
know, as far as an opportunity.
But typically speaking, alwaysaround a water source of some
kind.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
How far do you think they wander from those water
sources?
I mean, are they like a couplemiles?
Can they go a couple miles awayor 300 yards?
SPEAKER_03 (03:11):
I would say elk, because their strides are so
much.
I mean, when an elk walks, it'slike a jog for you and I.
Yeah, that's true.
And it doesn't matter to them ifit's a half mile or three
quarters of a mile or even amile away, if it's in the
pattern of where they want to beto spend that evening, because
that bull will push those cowsto an area where he can watch
(03:32):
them overnight.
It doesn't seem to, you know, Iwouldn't say more than a mile.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
At least in my personal experience, and that's
what it's limited to, is mypersonal experience.
But as far as deer, I don'tthink they go more.
I've always felt like they werewithin three or four hundred
yards.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Which was without water source, you know.
Makes sense with blacktail,right?
At least because the ranges areso small.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
And they most of them you know, they'll visit
that throughout the day.
But obviously, morning andevenings are the most popular
time for that time of year foranimals to get up and start
moving around, especiallyevening, because they're
typically we're gonna have somehigh pressure systems moving in
and sitting on us, and sothere'll be a lot of cloudless
(04:21):
nights, and those animals willfeed throughout the night
because obviously it's cooler,but it's nothing for them to
see, and then they're not reallybad weather that's gonna cause
them to hunker down.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
So, as far as staying cool, are they using
thermals to stay cool?
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
They're using the drafts, the updrafts and the
downdrafts in drainages thathave cover.
You know, on West Side here, areal popular scenario that I see
a lot of times are obviously forblack tail, I you know, like you
guys have heard me say it athousand times.
I like it where we have twohabitats that come together,
(04:57):
hardwoods and conifers, but I Ireally like it when I have an
alder patch that butts upagainst a conifer edge, and it
is in a drainage, so there's acrick there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (05:12):
And there'll always be cooler air running there.
And that's typically where Ifind in the early season a lot
of my deer activity.
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
Running along those.
Are they avoiding the directbeing out in direct sunlight
too?
Yeah.
So they'll be hanging out.
Well, how does that work?
As far as so thinking they'recoming out of their velvet,
uh-huh, and then within a weekof them shedding their velvet,
uh-huh.
So they want to be out more inthe open so they're not rubbing
(05:42):
that.
SPEAKER_03 (05:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
But it's really hot.
Is it just a high canopy area?
SPEAKER_03 (05:48):
Yeah.
Just like meal deer hunting, asthe sun goes around, you know,
those meal deer get up andthey'll just move, you know,
rotate around a bush or a smalltree and stay in the shade.
It's the same with white tail,it's the same with black tail.
They're gonna do the same thing,you know, as the sun rotates
around the earth and and thatshade rotates around whatever
(06:09):
they're sitting, they're gonnarotate around it to stay in that
shade.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
Okay.
You know, just moving their sunumbrella.
Right, right.
Their patio umbrella.
SPEAKER_03 (06:17):
They got a whole fur coat on, yeah, all the time.
And if anybody who's killed anearly season buck, I mean, you
you look at it and then you seethem transitioning from that
summer coat to the winter coat,and that summer coat always
looks scraggly and it's abrighter orange, yellowish
orange kind of thing, and itjust and I love blacktail, I'll
(06:38):
I'll kill a big buck earlyseason or late season, doesn't
matter, but I prefer the lateseason just because I like that
winter coat better.
It looks so much prettier to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Well, I really noticed that when we went to
pick up your cat from thattaxidermist, and he had some
bucks that he was doing somemounts, and the way he brushed
the fur to where they lookfluffy, yeah, almost.
SPEAKER_03 (07:00):
But you see how thick that fur is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, and you don't really notice it because
typically on most mounts theyjust brush it all the same way,
and he was making it lookphenomenal.
SPEAKER_03 (07:12):
I love his work, and he was a really good guy.
And guys are gonna ask now, nowwho are you talking about?
Retired.
He just retired, yeah.
It's a Bear Mountain taxidermistout of Woodland, and the guy is
phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Yeah.
So now everything's gone to trapline, which hopefully we'll have
him on sometime coming up.
It's just never worked out asfar as busy schedules and stuff,
having him on.
And I just want to have ataxidermist on to talk about
taxidermy.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
It's a good subject because a lot of guys don't know
how to prepare their capes.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
I wouldn't have a clue.
SPEAKER_03 (07:45):
Yeah, uh, to get mounted, or if they want it
tanned, or whatever they want todo, Elder.
You got to cape that animalcorrectly.
unknown (07:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
So now moving along to windstorms.
Now, I first brought thewindstorm, these wind speeds up
during when we talked about windand hunting the wind back, I
think it was early spring, orsometimes at some point I did.
Right.
We did an episode.
And so one of the articles thatI read, it was it had broken it
(08:15):
down to as far as wind speed,zero to four deer movement is
usually highest since senses arenot significantly disrupted.
Five to fourteen miles an hour,good for hunters as it can mask
sounds and sense withoutlimiting deer movement.
Fifteen and up wind begins to bedisruptive to deer senses and
movement, and movement willdecline or stop.
(08:36):
Can be good for spot and stock,and deer are more stationary.
Higher winds can also bring downtrees, so deer would avoid areas
with falling branches or treesfalling.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
So your thoughts on all of I agree with all of that
and disagree with all of that atthis same time.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
I used to think that wind would make deer hunker
down, you know.
But the first year that I huntedKansas, we had a a windstorm
come through, and we were gonnaget 35 to 40 mile an hour gusts,
and our guides were so ecstaticand so excited about that.
And you know, I thought, well,we're gonna lose a day of
(09:16):
hunting.
Uh-huh.
And that wasn't the case at all.
They came in, uh, we need to getout there.
You guys are gonna see a ton ofdeer today.
You're gonna and I'm like,seriously, are you are you
kidding me?
You know, and I thought I'mthinking these guys are just
doing it because, well, theyfeel obligated because we paid,
you know, money and everything.
And I'll be doggone.
I mean, I saw more deer that daythan I have seen in a long time
(09:39):
in one sitting.
Just the movement was awesome.
And the reason was is becauseand this was whitetail, and
whitetail are skittish, youknow, and and it overloaded
their senses in the sense thateverything was moving, so
nothing spooked them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
So nothing spooked them, yeah.
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
And they're smelling everythingbecause the wind is blowing, and
they have no idea where it'scoming from, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:03):
You know, so instead of hitting vapor lock and just
settling down, the whitetailjust got up and we're just
moving like crazy.
Well, I came back here thatseason, and just so happens we
had another windstorm.
And uh, it was just one of thosedays where I thought, you know,
I'm gonna go out and try this.
And like I said, I wassurprised, but yeah, I saw black
tail moving, you know.
Okay.
(10:23):
Now I don't know that I would doit in a 40 mile an hour wind
gust.
For me, it it it turns away fromdeer movement as much as it's
dangerous to be out there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:34):
Kansas doesn't have the trees, the size of trees
that we have.
There's times where I've comeback after a windstorm to my
stand, maybe I didn't hunt itthat day or whatever, and I walk
in, and there's been I rememberone time I had an alder and a
younger fir blown over, and thebig alder had just missed my
(10:55):
platform on my tree stand andwas wedged between two trees so
that when I put my feet out pastthe platform, it was resting on
the alder.
It was resting on the alder.
And then the fir fell right on,but it wasn't super big, but it
just engulfed my tree stand.
And there was like 15 other andthat's the thing is we got such
(11:17):
big trees, and they don't rotfrom the outside in, they rot
from the inside out, so youreally don't know.
And so there's an element ofdanger there that that keeps me
out of the woods during thosestorms.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
The black tail tend to move to the edges and bed
down there, is what I'venoticed.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I'm just trying to think of the other day when I
went in and it sounded likesomething jumped up while at the
last 30 yards of walking into myset.
Uh-huh.
And I'm trying to think if itwas windy that day.
But we also have very differenttopography than so.
I mean, it's just ridges afterridges after ridge line.
SPEAKER_03 (11:54):
Kansas is kind of rolling, shallow rolling hills
and whatnot.
The topography doesn't have awhole lot of hard edges, ridges
or anything like that where wedo.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
You know, like elk during a windstorm.
They'll go someplace wherethey're out of the wind, tucked
in a little uh, you know, in alittle corner where a ridge is a
wind check and things arerelatively calm around there,
and they can just sit there anddo their thing and nobody knows
they're there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:21):
So now thinking about the moving on to rainfall.
What are they doing?
So the I'm sure there's adifference between like heavy
showers versus a steady rain ora heavy steady rain.
What's going on with those?
SPEAKER_03 (12:41):
Okay, so uh this is a great question, and it's
appropriately timed given thatwe do have this big atmospheric
river coming through.
So I took a guy out yesterday,never been hunting, first year
deer hunting, and he got a buckas his rifle.
And I've been watching theweather report and the radar and
(13:01):
all of that stuff because thisis a big weather event, and I
wanted to be just in front ofit.
I felt like we were gonna getthe best opportunity just in
front of that.
And so it wasn't supposed tohappen in our area till around
noon, and it turned out it movedin three hours early.
So it started a steady rain atnine o'clock in the morning.
(13:25):
And uh we were out there atdaylight.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:27):
So we had less than two hours before that front came
in.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
And you might have only had like an hour and a
half, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
I was doing a little bit of rattling, and we heard
one come in to about 30 yards,and we could hear it on the
other side of this group of jackfur.
He was in there rubbing, and wewere waiting and waiting.
Finally, it calmed down, andthings just kind of sat there
20-30 minutes, and we walked upto where we heard the sound, and
there was a fresh rub rightthere.
So we did rattle in a buckthere, but we just wasn't the
(13:57):
opportunity that was gonna giveus a shot.
So we ended up hunting our wayback to the rig.
Well, by the time we got back tothe rig, it was really coming
down.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:07):
And so I knew, and I tell guys this all the time,
everybody's like, well, the rainis the best time to go out.
My experience, and again, that'sall it is, guys, is my
experience.
I feel like when it's raining,they bed down.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Like hard rain or just rain period?
SPEAKER_03 (14:24):
When it's just rain, period, they bed down.
When it's hard rain, they get upbecause they don't like laying
in the puddles.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
But I'm talking a gully wash when it just
absolutely dumps.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:36):
And then they'll stand up and shake it off and
everything.
They don't like laying in thepuddles, and that's when you see
them in a hard rain.
But when it's just a steadyrain, they'll bed down.
But as soon as it stops, theyget up and start feeding.
So it's like little microweather systems that we have
here.
So the buck that he ended upshooting yesterday was between
(15:00):
two between two showers.
Between two showers is basicallywhat we're looking at here.
As soon as it stopped raining,we started seeing deer stand up.
And we're moving to anotherspot.
And on and while we were movingto another spot, I'd already
spotted four other deer.
They were all does.
There was no bucks with them.
And we're moving and moving.
And then I look over and here'sa doe.
(15:20):
And right behind her is thisbuck.
He ended up killing that buck.
But my point is, it was betweenweather systems, between
showers.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:30):
And I've told the story about my wife killing her
first archery deer.
And how that was, you know, I'mlooking on the radar on my
phone, and I looked at her and Isaid, We got about 10 minutes,
and this rain is going to stop,and we're going to have a little
15-minute break.
And I says, and then it's goingto be too dark to do anything.
But I says, You need to getready because as soon as it
(15:51):
stops raining, we're probablygoing to see the deer.
And boy, like it read thescript, it stopped raining, and
it wasn't two, three minuteslater that deer stepped out and
she ended up shooting him withher bow.
And so rain will make themgenerally bed down.
Heavy rain will get them up.
And as soon as the rain starts,or just before the rain begins,
(16:14):
those deer are gonna feed up.
SPEAKER_01 (16:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
Because they know that I mean it's the Pacific
Northwest.
It's gonna rain again real soon.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
So hearing you say that, I'm thinking back of the
first year I was hunting, I wasup on hilltop, and I ended up
moving to where I was justsitting in a ground blind chair.
And it was the last day of latemodern and showers, not real
heavy showers, but showers allday.
(16:41):
It rained for 15, 20 minutes,and then it would stop, and then
it would rain for 30 minutes,and then it would stop for 15,
20 minutes.
And when it would stop, and I'vegot my game ears on, so
everything's amplified, and I'msitting right on the edge of the
swamp, and on the other side ofthe swamp is a big jack fur
patch that was uh I knew it wasa bedding area because I had
(17:05):
lots of camera pics of themgoing into that area.
Every time the rain stopped,five minutes, ten minutes later,
I would hear animals getting upand moving around over in that
jackfur patch, and then the rainhad come, and granted, it wasn't
real hard rain, but I couldn'treally hear anything on top of
(17:27):
or along with that rain comingdown with the with the game
ears.
But as soon as it stopped, I'dhear stuff moving around again.
SPEAKER_03 (17:33):
Yeah, and they don't waste any time.
No, because like I said, theyknow that they're in between
showers, they know the nextone's gonna start.
So it's almost like they snackall day long, you know.
As soon as the rain stops,they're up and moving again.
And as soon as it starts, theygo right back down.
A lot of guys say, well, it'sbest in the rain.
And I understand what they'resaying.
They see it, but if they wereto, I think if a lot of guys
(17:55):
would stop and analyze what'sgoing on, you're in between
showers, yeah.
When you're seeing these animalsand stuff, that's not to say
that you can't kill a buck whenit's raining.
Of course you can, but we'rejust saying that on the whole,
as a normal practice by deer,they move more in front of and
(18:16):
behind systems, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
So thinking about kind of expanding on this, and
this was something I wasthinking about the other day,
and I didn't ask you about it,but the when we talk about the
five factors, so Adam Hayestalks about the barometric
pressure being over 29.9, youtalk about it 30.2 that you like
30.2.
Right.
Generally, it drops prettydramatically.
(18:39):
When so today it dropped, it waslike 29.8 or nine to start the
day, and it just plummeted downto 29.5 be when the bulk of the
storm came through today.
Right, right.
Usually it trails off, itdoesn't have dramatic up or
down, not that it can't, butright, right, most of the time
(19:01):
it's gradually going up or down.
Now, is that triggering them toget up and feed, even though
it's dropping?
Because you talk about itrising, but if it's dropping,
will that trigger them becausethen they know that bad
weather's coming?
It's time to get up and go do alittle extra feeding because I
might not be eating for a whilebecause I don't want to be out
(19:23):
in it.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Yeah, I feel like it is, Aaron.
Okay, and there may be guys thathave other opinions on that, but
I feel like it is, given myexperience with this.
I just think that most guys,when they think about it, you
know, oh well, and we shot themon this day and it was storming
like crazy.
They don't they just look at theday as a whole, they don't look
at the exact moment when thatbuck was taken.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
And this goes back to when, you know, as far as the
barometric pressure, when westarted talking about barometric
pressure, we were saying rightup for the start, well, it's
like, well, that doesn't meanyou can't kill on a day that has
28.1 or yeah.
We're just simply saying thatthe it uh on the whole, there's
more deer activity when it's youknow 29.9 and rising.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah, and then when they're picking up on it that
it's rising, uh that it's kindof a trigger to let them know
it's okay to go out and starteating again.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
And and if it's been at 28 point something for two or
three days, yeah, you know, andthen it finally makes a jump up
to 29, say, point five.
unknown (20:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:27):
Well, yeah, you're gonna see because we've been
it's like being at 90 degreesfor a week, and then all of a
sudden we get a 65 degree day.
That's a change in thebarometric pressure, but it's
also a change in thetemperature.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
And that big a jump will always get animals up and
moving in the summertime.
That's a relief.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
Well, yeah, they don't have to if it's 90, 95.
And I think that that's whathappened when Chris got bambino.
Right.
And there doesn't have a drop.
SPEAKER_03 (20:55):
There was a big drop, and he did have a little
bit of rain come in, but theredoesn't have to be any rain,
just that drop in temperature.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
But if you're no longer if the animal's no longer
hiding from the sun, exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly time tostart moving out because it
might be that there's betterfeed out more in the open or
something like that, that timeof year, or or along the edges
that they might not be hittingthat.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (21:17):
It's kind of their day of air conditioning.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
You know what I mean?
It's like coming in from theoutside, it's 98 degrees
outside, and you come into anair conditioned room.
Yeah.
Is the relief from the heat, andyou feel like you can be more
active.
Yeah, I mean, whereas the heattends to drain, especially you
know, at my age, 56, it tends todrain a lot of the motivation
out of me sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Well, this is true.
I mean, so I'm a fan ofDisneyland, and I used to live
down in LA and I'd go a lot.
If it got over like 95 degrees,all the locals wouldn't go.
So it would be a quote unquoteempty park, and that's when I
would go because I could dealwith the heat.
But when it cools off, you wantto be outside when it cools off
(22:03):
a little bit.
You know, not everybody wants tobe outside when it's 100 or 105.
Or there are those people whoare those people, yes.
Yeah, and that's one of thethings to remember.
And Heather brought this up,that there are generalities
about animals that, you know, ifyou do this, this is generally
true.
SPEAKER_03 (22:23):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
But each animal has its own preferences.
That's exactly the thing itlikes to eat, the things it'll
do, you know, and you'relearning, especially with the
system, you're learning aparticular animal.
Right.
So it might not follow theserules.
SPEAKER_03 (22:43):
So if you're a literal person, yeah, you're
gonna have a hard time havingfun and enjoying hunting because
you hear all this advice and youjust take it and it's like
that's how it's gonna be everysingle time.
You know, Dave said you can'tkill out in a clear cut.
That's not what I said, youknow.
Yeah, I said, on the average,you don't see a lot of big bucks
(23:03):
out there.
I myself have never killed a bigbuck out in a clear cut.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Now people do.
SPEAKER_03 (23:08):
Every year, people do.
Yeah, we've seen the pictures onthat.
Yeah, they do, but I'm talkingabout I want to be the guy that
doesn't do that, just kills abig buck not just once.
I want to be able to do thatevery single year, uh-huh.
You know, and it's possible.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Okay, so thinking now about snow, and you you're
more likely to hunt the lateseason, so you're more likely to
see snow.
And I know you've shot a buck inthe snow, which can be helpful
for blood trailing.
Red stands out real great in thein the snow.
But what is that like snow onthe ground versus during a
(23:43):
snowstorm?
SPEAKER_03 (23:44):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
What's going on with that with their behavior?
Have you seen any differences?
SPEAKER_03 (23:50):
So I see a lot more activity in the snow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (23:53):
And activity, not just deer movement and deer in
front of me, but because of thesnow, you're able to spot, like
you were saying, more tracks andand find out.
It's actually a really good wayof scouting.
SPEAKER_04 (24:07):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
The unfortunate thing is sometimes those are the
paths that they only use duringthe snow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:13):
You know what I mean?
I love hunting in the snow.
I've done it for decades.
Whenever we get snow, I alwayswant to be there when it stops.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (24:22):
As soon as the snow stops, I'd love to I want to be
in stand.
I feel like I need to be becauseuh the probability of me getting
a tremendous amount of activityis great, and I'm always hopeful
that my target buck will show upand has happened a number of
times right after the snow.
But again, that's a weathersystem.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
But that's the weather, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:42):
Yeah, I can think of one big buck in particular that
we had a really good snowstorm,and I'll be doggone if he wasn't
on my camera in and out all thetime, even during the snow, even
the heavy part of the snow, youknow.
I got all these trail cam photosof him, and it was just coming
down, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (24:59):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
And he was just cycling through over and over
again.
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
He didn't care.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
So what about like extreme cold weather?
And we don't get extreme coldweather, at least the west side
of Washington, east side will.
And so I know you've hit somereally cold weather hunting
Mulies up Okanagan area, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:23):
Okanagan.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
And in Kansas, you've hit really cold weather.
SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
Yep.
And I've killed on both thosedays.
So up north in the Okanaganarea, kind of cl I know I'm
gonna butcher that name, but upthere I was on a hunt and it was
nine degrees without the windchill, but I killed a dandy mule
deer that day, and that wholeweek was just freezing.
(25:49):
But I mean, it was deer movementall day long.
We didn't get a hole.
There was already snow on theground, and it didn't really
snow much while we were there.
But man, it was so cold, and thedeer they reach a point where
they're moving to stay warm andthey're trying to replenish
calories that they're burning.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:07):
Just like just like just like us, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
I was wondering if they move to stay warm or
because when it gets really bad,and you talking about your days
at college in North Dakota, theywould just huddle up.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
Yeah, we would see herds of one to two hundred
deer, they would herd up intothose big herds, and they would
just kind of cycle from themiddle out.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
And it was just to stay warm.
That was like 20 below or 20,30, 40 below, and I mean it's
brutal.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
That's real extreme.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
That is really extreme.
But so in Kansas, the day that Ithe first time I went down
there, the day that I killed mybuck, it was 11 degrees.
We first had that was weirdbecause the first two days were
like 60s, and I was wearingsummer gear, and then it dropped
to 11, and it was that sudden ofa change, that sharp, that
(27:01):
drastic change is hard for thehuman body to acclimate to it
that fast, you know.
Yeah, and I got my heavy wintergear on, and I'm just trying to
tough it out, and found outlater all the other guys that
were at the camp, they all wentback.
Oh they only stayed out tillabout just before noon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Or when you stayed out and 11 in your summer gear?
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
I had my winter gear, my heavy winter gear, and
but I mean it was still reallytough.
Oh, yeah.
But yeah, I killed my buck thatday and I saw a ton of deer
activity.
Weather fronts always get deergoing.
Always.
I think that we as black tailhunters kind of underestimate
the in front of and the behindof weather fronts and stuff like
(27:40):
that.
So it's something that we reallyneed to take advantage of
because it does get deer up andmoving.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
And we have a lot of those.
We have a ton.
And I mean, we'll have thosesteady rain all day, but a lot
of times, and even today itrained hard, but it would I
thought it was it was going torain all day.
It was gonna be that steady,hard rain, and it didn't, it was
just rain showers, right?
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
Heavy rain showers.
A lot of bucks killed thisweekend, yeah.
A lot of bucks, andcongratulations to everybody.
And honestly, just take andreflect on that.
Was it between a weather event?
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
And that's why I asked about if Deer could pick
up on the barometric pressuredropping, and that got them up
moving around ahead of timebecause that was Friday.
That's when you went out, right?
Correct.
And so we're recording today onSaturday, but there was a lot of
(28:38):
people on Thursday and Fridaythat went out and a lot of
pictures.
SPEAKER_02 (28:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
That people were they were getting the these
bucks and some really nice ones.
And a lot of it was edgy clearcuts because it was pushing
them, but it seemed like theywere moving.
Yeah, that's why I started towonder about that.
If these weather fronts, thesebig weather systems as they're
coming in, which is more thanjust it's raining, okay, it
(29:03):
stopped raining, I can get upand go feed.
But this is more of a biologicalresponse of oh, you just sense
that this is coming, or the deersense that this is coming, and
they get up and start absolutelyparametric pressure absolutely
affects deer movement.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
But you know, and we've said this all along on the
five factors, weather trumpseverything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
Everything heat, cold, wind, no wind, rain, no
rain, heavy rain, snow.
Weather trumps everything.
And this time of year, man, youknow, we were stopping and
thinking about it.
The five factors.
Well, we had four out of thefive yesterday.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
So Monday is I have four out of the five.
Yeah.
Again.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:54):
So deer movement is gonna stay really good.
SPEAKER_00 (29:58):
Because I have rut.
It's a pre rut, and and actuallyit's getting into the rut now,
but the barometric pressure isgonna be thirty point two to
thirty point.
All day.
Yeah.
That's going to be really good.
Post weather front comingthrough.
Post weather front, yep.
Trying to think of bare metyeah, bare metric pressure
(30:18):
weather.
SPEAKER_03 (30:19):
And then moon front.
SPEAKER_00 (30:19):
Phase of the run.
And then I, yeah, it's a redmoon up through Wednesday.
And I was looking Wednesdaylooked really good too.
So I might have to postponerecording my other podcast
because I'm like, yeah, thatmight be a bad idea to give up
that day, even though I haven'treally seen any action on my set
yet.
I don't want it not be therewhen it could potentially
happen.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
And guys that have come to the seminar, this is
what I'm talking about.
When you heard me talk about thefive factors, this is what
watching them gets you.
We went out yesterday, we hadfour out of the five.
And I'm telling you, you guys,you watch those five factors.
If you don't remember it, goback and listen to that episode.
It's important this time ofyear.
And it's the difference betweenseeing no deer and seeing a lot
(31:02):
of deer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
So that's why that was one we did for the five
factors last year.
And then we re-released it atthe start of August as we
re-released some of the olderepisodes that we thought would
be most beneficial for hundredsof.
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
It's one of our most popular.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
It's so much so that I did seminars just the five
factors last year at the shows.
Because it was so requested.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
And so it gets colder, they're gonna start
doing more feeding during thosetimes because they need them
energy, so they they would be upjust moving around because I
gotta think that it's alsoharder for them to find food
when it is getting colder.
Right.
So they gotta get it.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
Food sources are becoming more scarce.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
So early season when it's really hot, that's when the
elk are in their rut.
But any of these extreme weatherevents, do they have any effect
on will they shut down the rut?
SPEAKER_03 (32:01):
Uh this time of year it would be heat.
Heat.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
Yeah.
And we noticed that with myfirst year, and a lot of guys
were having it, it was El Ninoyear.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
And yeah, so a warm they got that winter coat on,
and it just made them lethargic.
Yeah, it really does.
And then when it cools off atnight, they get up and they do
their thing, you know.
Yeah.
So is the rut still happening?
Yes, it's still happeningbecause we haven't changed, we
haven't taken enough sunlightout of the day to make a
difference as far as the rutgoes, because it's all triggered
(32:30):
by the amount of sunlight thathits the retina.
So unless somebody in here canmake an eclipse happen at will
multiple days in a row, that rutis not gonna change because the
amount of sunlight is going tobe the same, barring cloud
cover.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
And it just affects it as far as like when it got
warm, it didn't really shut downthe rut, it just moved it
tonight.
SPEAKER_03 (32:55):
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:58):
And so have you ever noticed, and I brought this up
because unfortunately, from theMidwest, I've seen stories this
week of guys being up in treestands during thunderstorms.
Yeah.
Again, don't do that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:11):
Don't go out in heavy windstorms and don't go
out in thunderstorms because theI don't care if you're rifle or
muzzle loader or archery, beingout in a thunderstorm is not
there's been seven people killedthis year being struck by
lightning.
And then uh seven hunters killedthis year being struck by
lightning.
We have everybody knows aboutthe two in Colorado, and this
gentleman now, this businessOklahoma in a tree stand.
(33:35):
Guys, he you know, I don't whatwhat a bow is metal?
Rifles metal, a rifle's metal, amuzzle loader's metal, standing
out in the open or up in a tree.
It's just not a good idea.
SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
But will do deer react any differently from you
what you've seen?
SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
Thunderstorms, I see them hunker down.
Deer and elk will hunker down.
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
There's not gonna be it's not gonna be movement.
I mean, the big booms and theflashes and everything.
That's where I see vapor lock.
That's where I see them justhunker down.
Okay.
During high windstorms andthunderstorms, thunderstorms
tend to hang to the timber.
High windstorms, they tend tomove out to the open.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (34:17):
Because it's so loud and everything, it's hard for
them to hear anything.
So they move out where they cansee more.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (34:24):
And with the windstorms, it really affects
their ability to sense where thedangers come from with their
nose.
Yeah.
So they turn to more of theirvision at that time.
SPEAKER_00 (34:33):
Okay.
All right.
Well, I think we've covered allthe extremes, so Yeah.
Be safe.
We'll see you next week.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron.
And I'm Dave.
Okay, so we're going to talktoday about extreme weather.
Hunting in extreme weather.
So extreme heat, windstorms,rainfall, snow, sort of
thunderstorms, if there's reallyany difference there.
Just thinking about this becausewe have this as we're recording,
(00:33):
although this won't come out fora couple of weeks, the
atmospheric river, which dumpinga bunch of rain and a bunch of
wind that popped up, which assoon as I saw the wind, I bailed
on my hunt for the day, justbecause last year windstorm blew
through in one of my spots thatI'd set up at, and three trees
(00:53):
came down that would have comedown on top of me.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
There's a little element of danger added to the
hunt that can significantlybeing crushed by a tree being
one of.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
So let's start off early season, the extreme heat
that you get into.
Because I know with late uhAugust, California, if they're
because their black tail startseither in late July or early
August.
Depending on the zone you'rehunting in.
And it's just hotter down there.
So what and this can be deer orelk, but what are they doing
(01:27):
differently when it startsgetting really hot?
You know?
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
I would say at that time of season, late August,
early September, and eventhroughout all of September,
because we really don't get intofall till somewhere in the
middle of October.
We start seeing the change inweather patterns.
A lot of guys are focusing onelk.
There are some guys that aredoing deer, but most guys are
focusing on elk because that'sthe rut.
(01:51):
Both species are going to stayrelatively close to water, I
would say.
It's going to be in their dailyroutine somehow.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
Okay.
So elk, it would be, you know, aplace not only for the cows to
drink, but a place for the bullsto wallow.
And I've always done really goodwhen it's really hot because I
don't have any problems sittingon wallows and being patient for
a bull to come use it.
And he does that when thathormonal buildup it reaches a
(02:21):
certain point and he's hot andhe needs to exert some energy to
bring those levels down.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
And so for me, early season as far as elk hunting,
the hotter, the better I do.
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (02:33):
But I mean, we've been up in the blues and gone to
bed, and it was 95 to 100degrees that day.
Wake up the next morning andthere's 10 inches of snow on the
ground.
Yeah.
You know, and the bulls arestill talking.
So, you know, I I've been inthat situation.
And that's always fun to bootbugle up bulls in the snow.
It's not something that thateverybody gets to do, uh, you
(02:54):
know, as far as an opportunity.
But typically speaking, alwaysaround a water source of some
kind.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
How far do you think they wander from those water
sources?
I mean, are they like a couplemiles?
Can they go a couple miles awayor 300 yards?
SPEAKER_03 (03:11):
I would say elk, because their strides are so
much.
I mean, when an elk walks, it'slike a jog for you and I.
Yeah, that's true.
And it doesn't matter to them ifit's a half mile or three
quarters of a mile or even amile away, if it's in the
pattern of where they want to beto spend that evening, because
that bull will push those cowsto an area where he can watch
(03:32):
them overnight.
It doesn't seem to, you know, Iwouldn't say more than a mile.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
At least in my personal experience, and that's
what it's limited to, is mypersonal experience.
But as far as deer, I don'tthink they go more.
I've always felt like they werewithin three or four hundred
yards.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Which was without water source, you know.
Makes sense with blacktail,right?
At least because the ranges areso small.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
And they most of them you know, they'll visit
that throughout the day.
But obviously, morning andevenings are the most popular
time for that time of year foranimals to get up and start
moving around, especiallyevening, because they're
typically we're gonna have somehigh pressure systems moving in
and sitting on us, and sothere'll be a lot of cloudless
(04:21):
nights, and those animals willfeed throughout the night
because obviously it's cooler,but it's nothing for them to
see, and then they're not reallybad weather that's gonna cause
them to hunker down.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
So, as far as staying cool, are they using
thermals to stay cool?
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
They're using the drafts, the updrafts and the
downdrafts in drainages thathave cover.
You know, on West Side here, areal popular scenario that I see
a lot of times are obviously forblack tail, I you know, like you
guys have heard me say it athousand times.
I like it where we have twohabitats that come together,
(04:57):
hardwoods and conifers, but I Ireally like it when I have an
alder patch that butts upagainst a conifer edge, and it
is in a drainage, so there's acrick there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (05:12):
And there'll always be cooler air running there.
And that's typically where Ifind in the early season a lot
of my deer activity.
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
Running along those.
Are they avoiding the directbeing out in direct sunlight
too?
Yeah.
So they'll be hanging out.
Well, how does that work?
As far as so thinking they'recoming out of their velvet,
uh-huh, and then within a weekof them shedding their velvet,
uh-huh.
So they want to be out more inthe open so they're not rubbing
(05:42):
that.
SPEAKER_03 (05:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
But it's really hot.
Is it just a high canopy area?
SPEAKER_03 (05:48):
Yeah.
Just like meal deer hunting, asthe sun goes around, you know,
those meal deer get up andthey'll just move, you know,
rotate around a bush or a smalltree and stay in the shade.
It's the same with white tail,it's the same with black tail.
They're gonna do the same thing,you know, as the sun rotates
around the earth and and thatshade rotates around whatever
(06:09):
they're sitting, they're gonnarotate around it to stay in that
shade.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
Okay.
You know, just moving their sunumbrella.
Right, right.
Their patio umbrella.
SPEAKER_03 (06:17):
They got a whole fur coat on, yeah, all the time.
And if anybody who's killed anearly season buck, I mean, you
you look at it and then you seethem transitioning from that
summer coat to the winter coat,and that summer coat always
looks scraggly and it's abrighter orange, yellowish
orange kind of thing, and itjust and I love blacktail, I'll
(06:38):
I'll kill a big buck earlyseason or late season, doesn't
matter, but I prefer the lateseason just because I like that
winter coat better.
It looks so much prettier to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Well, I really noticed that when we went to
pick up your cat from thattaxidermist, and he had some
bucks that he was doing somemounts, and the way he brushed
the fur to where they lookfluffy, yeah, almost.
SPEAKER_03 (07:00):
But you see how thick that fur is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, and you don't really notice it because
typically on most mounts theyjust brush it all the same way,
and he was making it lookphenomenal.
SPEAKER_03 (07:12):
I love his work, and he was a really good guy.
And guys are gonna ask now, nowwho are you talking about?
Retired.
He just retired, yeah.
It's a Bear Mountain taxidermistout of Woodland, and the guy is
phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Yeah.
So now everything's gone to trapline, which hopefully we'll have
him on sometime coming up.
It's just never worked out asfar as busy schedules and stuff,
having him on.
And I just want to have ataxidermist on to talk about
taxidermy.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
It's a good subject because a lot of guys don't know
how to prepare their capes.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
I wouldn't have a clue.
SPEAKER_03 (07:45):
Yeah, uh, to get mounted, or if they want it
tanned, or whatever they want todo, Elder.
You got to cape that animalcorrectly.
unknown (07:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
So now moving along to windstorms.
Now, I first brought thewindstorm, these wind speeds up
during when we talked about windand hunting the wind back, I
think it was early spring, orsometimes at some point I did.
Right.
We did an episode.
And so one of the articles thatI read, it was it had broken it
(08:15):
down to as far as wind speed,zero to four deer movement is
usually highest since senses arenot significantly disrupted.
Five to fourteen miles an hour,good for hunters as it can mask
sounds and sense withoutlimiting deer movement.
Fifteen and up wind begins to bedisruptive to deer senses and
movement, and movement willdecline or stop.
(08:36):
Can be good for spot and stock,and deer are more stationary.
Higher winds can also bring downtrees, so deer would avoid areas
with falling branches or treesfalling.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
So your thoughts on all of I agree with all of that
and disagree with all of that atthis same time.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
I used to think that wind would make deer hunker
down, you know.
But the first year that I huntedKansas, we had a a windstorm
come through, and we were gonnaget 35 to 40 mile an hour gusts,
and our guides were so ecstaticand so excited about that.
And you know, I thought, well,we're gonna lose a day of
(09:16):
hunting.
Uh-huh.
And that wasn't the case at all.
They came in, uh, we need to getout there.
You guys are gonna see a ton ofdeer today.
You're gonna and I'm like,seriously, are you are you
kidding me?
You know, and I thought I'mthinking these guys are just
doing it because, well, theyfeel obligated because we paid,
you know, money and everything.
And I'll be doggone.
I mean, I saw more deer that daythan I have seen in a long time
(09:39):
in one sitting.
Just the movement was awesome.
And the reason was is becauseand this was whitetail, and
whitetail are skittish, youknow, and and it overloaded
their senses in the sense thateverything was moving, so
nothing spooked them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
So nothing spooked them, yeah.
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
And they're smelling everythingbecause the wind is blowing, and
they have no idea where it'scoming from, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:03):
You know, so instead of hitting vapor lock and just
settling down, the whitetailjust got up and we're just
moving like crazy.
Well, I came back here thatseason, and just so happens we
had another windstorm.
And uh, it was just one of thosedays where I thought, you know,
I'm gonna go out and try this.
And like I said, I wassurprised, but yeah, I saw black
tail moving, you know.
Okay.
(10:23):
Now I don't know that I would doit in a 40 mile an hour wind
gust.
For me, it it it turns away fromdeer movement as much as it's
dangerous to be out there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:34):
Kansas doesn't have the trees, the size of trees
that we have.
There's times where I've comeback after a windstorm to my
stand, maybe I didn't hunt itthat day or whatever, and I walk
in, and there's been I rememberone time I had an alder and a
younger fir blown over, and thebig alder had just missed my
(10:55):
platform on my tree stand andwas wedged between two trees so
that when I put my feet out pastthe platform, it was resting on
the alder.
It was resting on the alder.
And then the fir fell right on,but it wasn't super big, but it
just engulfed my tree stand.
And there was like 15 other andthat's the thing is we got such
(11:17):
big trees, and they don't rotfrom the outside in, they rot
from the inside out, so youreally don't know.
And so there's an element ofdanger there that that keeps me
out of the woods during thosestorms.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
The black tail tend to move to the edges and bed
down there, is what I'venoticed.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I'm just trying to think of the other day when I
went in and it sounded likesomething jumped up while at the
last 30 yards of walking into myset.
Uh-huh.
And I'm trying to think if itwas windy that day.
But we also have very differenttopography than so.
I mean, it's just ridges afterridges after ridge line.
SPEAKER_03 (11:54):
Kansas is kind of rolling, shallow rolling hills
and whatnot.
The topography doesn't have awhole lot of hard edges, ridges
or anything like that where wedo.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
You know, like elk during a windstorm.
They'll go someplace wherethey're out of the wind, tucked
in a little uh, you know, in alittle corner where a ridge is a
wind check and things arerelatively calm around there,
and they can just sit there anddo their thing and nobody knows
they're there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:21):
So now thinking about the moving on to rainfall.
What are they doing?
So the I'm sure there's adifference between like heavy
showers versus a steady rain ora heavy steady rain.
What's going on with those?
SPEAKER_03 (12:41):
Okay, so uh this is a great question, and it's
appropriately timed given thatwe do have this big atmospheric
river coming through.
So I took a guy out yesterday,never been hunting, first year
deer hunting, and he got a buckas his rifle.
And I've been watching theweather report and the radar and
(13:01):
all of that stuff because thisis a big weather event, and I
wanted to be just in front ofit.
I felt like we were gonna getthe best opportunity just in
front of that.
And so it wasn't supposed tohappen in our area till around
noon, and it turned out it movedin three hours early.
So it started a steady rain atnine o'clock in the morning.
(13:25):
And uh we were out there atdaylight.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:27):
So we had less than two hours before that front came
in.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
And you might have only had like an hour and a
half, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
I was doing a little bit of rattling, and we heard
one come in to about 30 yards,and we could hear it on the
other side of this group of jackfur.
He was in there rubbing, and wewere waiting and waiting.
Finally, it calmed down, andthings just kind of sat there
20-30 minutes, and we walked upto where we heard the sound, and
there was a fresh rub rightthere.
So we did rattle in a buckthere, but we just wasn't the
(13:57):
opportunity that was gonna giveus a shot.
So we ended up hunting our wayback to the rig.
Well, by the time we got back tothe rig, it was really coming
down.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:07):
And so I knew, and I tell guys this all the time,
everybody's like, well, the rainis the best time to go out.
My experience, and again, that'sall it is, guys, is my
experience.
I feel like when it's raining,they bed down.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Like hard rain or just rain period?
SPEAKER_03 (14:24):
When it's just rain, period, they bed down.
When it's hard rain, they get upbecause they don't like laying
in the puddles.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
But I'm talking a gully wash when it just
absolutely dumps.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:36):
And then they'll stand up and shake it off and
everything.
They don't like laying in thepuddles, and that's when you see
them in a hard rain.
But when it's just a steadyrain, they'll bed down.
But as soon as it stops, theyget up and start feeding.
So it's like little microweather systems that we have
here.
So the buck that he ended upshooting yesterday was between
(15:00):
two between two showers.
Between two showers is basicallywhat we're looking at here.
As soon as it stopped raining,we started seeing deer stand up.
And we're moving to anotherspot.
And on and while we were movingto another spot, I'd already
spotted four other deer.
They were all does.
There was no bucks with them.
And we're moving and moving.
And then I look over and here'sa doe.
(15:20):
And right behind her is thisbuck.
He ended up killing that buck.
But my point is, it was betweenweather systems, between
showers.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:30):
And I've told the story about my wife killing her
first archery deer.
And how that was, you know, I'mlooking on the radar on my
phone, and I looked at her and Isaid, We got about 10 minutes,
and this rain is going to stop,and we're going to have a little
15-minute break.
And I says, and then it's goingto be too dark to do anything.
But I says, You need to getready because as soon as it
(15:51):
stops raining, we're probablygoing to see the deer.
And boy, like it read thescript, it stopped raining, and
it wasn't two, three minuteslater that deer stepped out and
she ended up shooting him withher bow.
And so rain will make themgenerally bed down.
Heavy rain will get them up.
And as soon as the rain starts,or just before the rain begins,
(16:14):
those deer are gonna feed up.
SPEAKER_01 (16:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
Because they know that I mean it's the Pacific
Northwest.
It's gonna rain again real soon.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
So hearing you say that, I'm thinking back of the
first year I was hunting, I wasup on hilltop, and I ended up
moving to where I was justsitting in a ground blind chair.
And it was the last day of latemodern and showers, not real
heavy showers, but showers allday.
(16:41):
It rained for 15, 20 minutes,and then it would stop, and then
it would rain for 30 minutes,and then it would stop for 15,
20 minutes.
And when it would stop, and I'vegot my game ears on, so
everything's amplified, and I'msitting right on the edge of the
swamp, and on the other side ofthe swamp is a big jack fur
patch that was uh I knew it wasa bedding area because I had
(17:05):
lots of camera pics of themgoing into that area.
Every time the rain stopped,five minutes, ten minutes later,
I would hear animals getting upand moving around over in that
jackfur patch, and then the rainhad come, and granted, it wasn't
real hard rain, but I couldn'treally hear anything on top of
(17:27):
or along with that rain comingdown with the with the game
ears.
But as soon as it stopped, I'dhear stuff moving around again.
SPEAKER_03 (17:33):
Yeah, and they don't waste any time.
No, because like I said, theyknow that they're in between
showers, they know the nextone's gonna start.
So it's almost like they snackall day long, you know.
As soon as the rain stops,they're up and moving again.
And as soon as it starts, theygo right back down.
A lot of guys say, well, it'sbest in the rain.
And I understand what they'resaying.
They see it, but if they wereto, I think if a lot of guys
(17:55):
would stop and analyze what'sgoing on, you're in between
showers, yeah.
When you're seeing these animalsand stuff, that's not to say
that you can't kill a buck whenit's raining.
Of course you can, but we'rejust saying that on the whole,
as a normal practice by deer,they move more in front of and
(18:16):
behind systems, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
So thinking about kind of expanding on this, and
this was something I wasthinking about the other day,
and I didn't ask you about it,but the when we talk about the
five factors, so Adam Hayestalks about the barometric
pressure being over 29.9, youtalk about it 30.2 that you like
30.2.
Right.
Generally, it drops prettydramatically.
(18:39):
When so today it dropped, it waslike 29.8 or nine to start the
day, and it just plummeted downto 29.5 be when the bulk of the
storm came through today.
Right, right.
Usually it trails off, itdoesn't have dramatic up or
down, not that it can't, butright, right, most of the time
(19:01):
it's gradually going up or down.
Now, is that triggering them toget up and feed, even though
it's dropping?
Because you talk about itrising, but if it's dropping,
will that trigger them becausethen they know that bad
weather's coming?
It's time to get up and go do alittle extra feeding because I
might not be eating for a whilebecause I don't want to be out
(19:23):
in it.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Yeah, I feel like it is, Aaron.
Okay, and there may be guys thathave other opinions on that, but
I feel like it is, given myexperience with this.
I just think that most guys,when they think about it, you
know, oh well, and we shot themon this day and it was storming
like crazy.
They don't they just look at theday as a whole, they don't look
at the exact moment when thatbuck was taken.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
And this goes back to when, you know, as far as the
barometric pressure, when westarted talking about barometric
pressure, we were saying rightup for the start, well, it's
like, well, that doesn't meanyou can't kill on a day that has
28.1 or yeah.
We're just simply saying thatthe it uh on the whole, there's
more deer activity when it's youknow 29.9 and rising.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah, and then when they're picking up on it that
it's rising, uh that it's kindof a trigger to let them know
it's okay to go out and starteating again.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
And and if it's been at 28 point something for two or
three days, yeah, you know, andthen it finally makes a jump up
to 29, say, point five.
unknown (20:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:27):
Well, yeah, you're gonna see because we've been
it's like being at 90 degreesfor a week, and then all of a
sudden we get a 65 degree day.
That's a change in thebarometric pressure, but it's
also a change in thetemperature.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
And that big a jump will always get animals up and
moving in the summertime.
That's a relief.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
Well, yeah, they don't have to if it's 90, 95.
And I think that that's whathappened when Chris got bambino.
Right.
And there doesn't have a drop.
SPEAKER_03 (20:55):
There was a big drop, and he did have a little
bit of rain come in, but theredoesn't have to be any rain,
just that drop in temperature.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
But if you're no longer if the animal's no longer
hiding from the sun, exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly time tostart moving out because it
might be that there's betterfeed out more in the open or
something like that, that timeof year, or or along the edges
that they might not be hittingthat.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (21:17):
It's kind of their day of air conditioning.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
You know what I mean?
It's like coming in from theoutside, it's 98 degrees
outside, and you come into anair conditioned room.
Yeah.
Is the relief from the heat, andyou feel like you can be more
active.
Yeah, I mean, whereas the heattends to drain, especially you
know, at my age, 56, it tends todrain a lot of the motivation
out of me sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Well, this is true.
I mean, so I'm a fan ofDisneyland, and I used to live
down in LA and I'd go a lot.
If it got over like 95 degrees,all the locals wouldn't go.
So it would be a quote unquoteempty park, and that's when I
would go because I could dealwith the heat.
But when it cools off, you wantto be outside when it cools off
(22:03):
a little bit.
You know, not everybody wants tobe outside when it's 100 or 105.
Or there are those people whoare those people, yes.
Yeah, and that's one of thethings to remember.
And Heather brought this up,that there are generalities
about animals that, you know, ifyou do this, this is generally
true.
SPEAKER_03 (22:23):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
But each animal has its own preferences.
That's exactly the thing itlikes to eat, the things it'll
do, you know, and you'relearning, especially with the
system, you're learning aparticular animal.
Right.
So it might not follow theserules.
SPEAKER_03 (22:43):
So if you're a literal person, yeah, you're
gonna have a hard time havingfun and enjoying hunting because
you hear all this advice and youjust take it and it's like
that's how it's gonna be everysingle time.
You know, Dave said you can'tkill out in a clear cut.
That's not what I said, youknow.
Yeah, I said, on the average,you don't see a lot of big bucks
(23:03):
out there.
I myself have never killed a bigbuck out in a clear cut.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Now people do.
SPEAKER_03 (23:08):
Every year, people do.
Yeah, we've seen the pictures onthat.
Yeah, they do, but I'm talkingabout I want to be the guy that
doesn't do that, just kills abig buck not just once.
I want to be able to do thatevery single year, uh-huh.
You know, and it's possible.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Okay, so thinking now about snow, and you you're
more likely to hunt the lateseason, so you're more likely to
see snow.
And I know you've shot a buck inthe snow, which can be helpful
for blood trailing.
Red stands out real great in thein the snow.
But what is that like snow onthe ground versus during a
(23:43):
snowstorm?
SPEAKER_03 (23:44):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
What's going on with that with their behavior?
Have you seen any differences?
SPEAKER_03 (23:50):
So I see a lot more activity in the snow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (23:53):
And activity, not just deer movement and deer in
front of me, but because of thesnow, you're able to spot, like
you were saying, more tracks andand find out.
It's actually a really good wayof scouting.
SPEAKER_04 (24:07):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
The unfortunate thing is sometimes those are the
paths that they only use duringthe snow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:13):
You know what I mean?
I love hunting in the snow.
I've done it for decades.
Whenever we get snow, I alwayswant to be there when it stops.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (24:22):
As soon as the snow stops, I'd love to I want to be
in stand.
I feel like I need to be becauseuh the probability of me getting
a tremendous amount of activityis great, and I'm always hopeful
that my target buck will show upand has happened a number of
times right after the snow.
But again, that's a weathersystem.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
But that's the weather, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:42):
Yeah, I can think of one big buck in particular that
we had a really good snowstorm,and I'll be doggone if he wasn't
on my camera in and out all thetime, even during the snow, even
the heavy part of the snow, youknow.
I got all these trail cam photosof him, and it was just coming
down, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (24:59):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
And he was just cycling through over and over
again.
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
He didn't care.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
So what about like extreme cold weather?
And we don't get extreme coldweather, at least the west side
of Washington, east side will.
And so I know you've hit somereally cold weather hunting
Mulies up Okanagan area, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:23):
Okanagan.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
And in Kansas, you've hit really cold weather.
SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
Yep.
And I've killed on both thosedays.
So up north in the Okanaganarea, kind of cl I know I'm
gonna butcher that name, but upthere I was on a hunt and it was
nine degrees without the windchill, but I killed a dandy mule
deer that day, and that wholeweek was just freezing.
(25:49):
But I mean, it was deer movementall day long.
We didn't get a hole.
There was already snow on theground, and it didn't really
snow much while we were there.
But man, it was so cold, and thedeer they reach a point where
they're moving to stay warm andthey're trying to replenish
calories that they're burning.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:07):
Just like just like just like us, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
I was wondering if they move to stay warm or
because when it gets really bad,and you talking about your days
at college in North Dakota, theywould just huddle up.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
Yeah, we would see herds of one to two hundred
deer, they would herd up intothose big herds, and they would
just kind of cycle from themiddle out.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
And it was just to stay warm.
That was like 20 below or 20,30, 40 below, and I mean it's
brutal.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
That's real extreme.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
That is really extreme.
But so in Kansas, the day that Ithe first time I went down
there, the day that I killed mybuck, it was 11 degrees.
We first had that was weirdbecause the first two days were
like 60s, and I was wearingsummer gear, and then it dropped
to 11, and it was that sudden ofa change, that sharp, that
(27:01):
drastic change is hard for thehuman body to acclimate to it
that fast, you know.
Yeah, and I got my heavy wintergear on, and I'm just trying to
tough it out, and found outlater all the other guys that
were at the camp, they all wentback.
Oh they only stayed out tillabout just before noon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Or when you stayed out and 11 in your summer gear?
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
I had my winter gear, my heavy winter gear, and
but I mean it was still reallytough.
Oh, yeah.
But yeah, I killed my buck thatday and I saw a ton of deer
activity.
Weather fronts always get deergoing.
Always.
I think that we as black tailhunters kind of underestimate
the in front of and the behindof weather fronts and stuff like
(27:40):
that.
So it's something that we reallyneed to take advantage of
because it does get deer up andmoving.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
And we have a lot of those.
We have a ton.
And I mean, we'll have thosesteady rain all day, but a lot
of times, and even today itrained hard, but it would I
thought it was it was going torain all day.
It was gonna be that steady,hard rain, and it didn't, it was
just rain showers, right?
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
Heavy rain showers.
A lot of bucks killed thisweekend, yeah.
A lot of bucks, andcongratulations to everybody.
And honestly, just take andreflect on that.
Was it between a weather event?
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
And that's why I asked about if Deer could pick
up on the barometric pressuredropping, and that got them up
moving around ahead of timebecause that was Friday.
That's when you went out, right?
Correct.
And so we're recording today onSaturday, but there was a lot of
(28:38):
people on Thursday and Fridaythat went out and a lot of
pictures.
SPEAKER_02 (28:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
That people were they were getting the these
bucks and some really nice ones.
And a lot of it was edgy clearcuts because it was pushing
them, but it seemed like theywere moving.
Yeah, that's why I started towonder about that.
If these weather fronts, thesebig weather systems as they're
coming in, which is more thanjust it's raining, okay, it
(29:03):
stopped raining, I can get upand go feed.
But this is more of a biologicalresponse of oh, you just sense
that this is coming, or the deersense that this is coming, and
they get up and start absolutelyparametric pressure absolutely
affects deer movement.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
But you know, and we've said this all along on the
five factors, weather trumpseverything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
Everything heat, cold, wind, no wind, rain, no
rain, heavy rain, snow.
Weather trumps everything.
And this time of year, man, youknow, we were stopping and
thinking about it.
The five factors.
Well, we had four out of thefive yesterday.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
So Monday is I have four out of the five.
Yeah.
Again.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:54):
So deer movement is gonna stay really good.
SPEAKER_00 (29:58):
Because I have rut.
It's a pre rut, and and actuallyit's getting into the rut now,
but the barometric pressure isgonna be thirty point two to
thirty point.
All day.
Yeah.
That's going to be really good.
Post weather front comingthrough.
Post weather front, yep.
Trying to think of bare metyeah, bare metric pressure
(30:18):
weather.
SPEAKER_03 (30:19):
And then moon front.
SPEAKER_00 (30:19):
Phase of the run.
And then I, yeah, it's a redmoon up through Wednesday.
And I was looking Wednesdaylooked really good too.
So I might have to postponerecording my other podcast
because I'm like, yeah, thatmight be a bad idea to give up
that day, even though I haven'treally seen any action on my set
yet.
I don't want it not be therewhen it could potentially
happen.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
And guys that have come to the seminar, this is
what I'm talking about.
When you heard me talk about thefive factors, this is what
watching them gets you.
We went out yesterday, we hadfour out of the five.
And I'm telling you, you guys,you watch those five factors.
If you don't remember it, goback and listen to that episode.
It's important this time ofyear.
And it's the difference betweenseeing no deer and seeing a lot
(31:02):
of deer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
So that's why that was one we did for the five
factors last year.
And then we re-released it atthe start of August as we
re-released some of the olderepisodes that we thought would
be most beneficial for hundredsof.
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
It's one of our most popular.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
It's so much so that I did seminars just the five
factors last year at the shows.
Because it was so requested.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
And so it gets colder, they're gonna start
doing more feeding during thosetimes because they need them
energy, so they they would be upjust moving around because I
gotta think that it's alsoharder for them to find food
when it is getting colder.
Right.
So they gotta get it.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
Food sources are becoming more scarce.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
So early season when it's really hot, that's when the
elk are in their rut.
But any of these extreme weatherevents, do they have any effect
on will they shut down the rut?
SPEAKER_03 (32:01):
Uh this time of year it would be heat.
Heat.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
Yeah.
And we noticed that with myfirst year, and a lot of guys
were having it, it was El Ninoyear.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
And yeah, so a warm they got that winter coat on,
and it just made them lethargic.
Yeah, it really does.
And then when it cools off atnight, they get up and they do
their thing, you know.
Yeah.
So is the rut still happening?
Yes, it's still happeningbecause we haven't changed, we
haven't taken enough sunlightout of the day to make a
difference as far as the rutgoes, because it's all triggered
(32:30):
by the amount of sunlight thathits the retina.
So unless somebody in here canmake an eclipse happen at will
multiple days in a row, that rutis not gonna change because the
amount of sunlight is going tobe the same, barring cloud
cover.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
And it just affects it as far as like when it got
warm, it didn't really shut downthe rut, it just moved it
tonight.
SPEAKER_03 (32:55):
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:58):
And so have you ever noticed, and I brought this up
because unfortunately, from theMidwest, I've seen stories this
week of guys being up in treestands during thunderstorms.
Yeah.
Again, don't do that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:11):
Don't go out in heavy windstorms and don't go
out in thunderstorms because theI don't care if you're rifle or
muzzle loader or archery, beingout in a thunderstorm is not
there's been seven people killedthis year being struck by
lightning.
And then uh seven hunters killedthis year being struck by
lightning.
We have everybody knows aboutthe two in Colorado, and this
gentleman now, this businessOklahoma in a tree stand.
(33:35):
Guys, he you know, I don't whatwhat a bow is metal?
Rifles metal, a rifle's metal, amuzzle loader's metal, standing
out in the open or up in a tree.
It's just not a good idea.
SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
But will do deer react any differently from you
what you've seen?
SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
Thunderstorms, I see them hunker down.
Deer and elk will hunker down.
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
There's not gonna be it's not gonna be movement.
I mean, the big booms and theflashes and everything.
That's where I see vapor lock.
That's where I see them justhunker down.
Okay.
During high windstorms andthunderstorms, thunderstorms
tend to hang to the timber.
High windstorms, they tend tomove out to the open.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (34:17):
Because it's so loud and everything, it's hard for
them to hear anything.
So they move out where they cansee more.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (34:24):
And with the windstorms, it really affects
their ability to sense where thedangers come from with their
nose.
Yeah.
So they turn to more of theirvision at that time.
SPEAKER_00 (34:33):
Okay.
All right.
Well, I think we've covered allthe extremes, so Yeah.
Be safe.
We'll see you next week.
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