May 5, 2025 • 42 mins
Every hunter faces unseen adversaries more challenging than elusive game—our own mental and physical limitations. What keeps many would-be hunters from success isn't lack of skill but fear of the dark, anxiety about wildlife encounters, or the physical constraints we all eventually face.
The darkness of the woods triggers primal fears. "It's either pitch black where you can't see your hand in front of your face, or when the moon's out, it's like almost daylight," Dave explains, highlighting how unfamiliarity breeds anxiety. Both hosts share personal stories of eerie wildlife encounters—from bears suddenly bolting from dense brush to mysterious movement in thick salal—and how repetition and knowledge transform terror into understanding. "The more times you put yourself in that position, the less scary those things become," Aaron notes, echoing the advice that helped both men overcome their trepidations.
Physical limitations represent an even more universal challenge. "Your body is only going to give you so many hunts," Dave observes, reflecting on how quickly decades of hunting opportunity slip away. For aging hunters, adapting becomes crucial—whether lowering bow poundage, selecting more accessible hunting areas, or maintaining year-round fitness focused on joint health. Their conversation explores practical adaptations from specialized gear to alternative hunting methods that extend hunting careers.
Perhaps most profound is their discussion of isolation in hunting. While some relish the solitude, others find the quiet hours alone with their thoughts unbearable. The hosts share wisdom about embracing this time for reflection and self-discovery, along with practical advice for those who struggle with it.
Ready to extend your hunting career by overcoming the obstacles rarely discussed on hunting shows? Listen now, and discover how addressing these challenges might just make you a more successful, fulfilled hunter for years to come.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave, so thisweek we want to talk about
overcoming challenges, bothphysical and mental.
So, as we've done the classes,I know that this becomes an
issue and we actually justrecently did a kind of a seminar
quick seminar just the othernight with a group of guys who
(00:22):
are getting older and, as yousay, you know, we only have so
many hunts, hunts in us and sowanting to stay out in the field
as long as possible or possiblyget out in the field, I think
for you know, for changing theway you hunt, whether it's tree
stand or something like that, oreven being new to hunting, I
(00:43):
think there's some mentalchallenges and for anybody there
could be some physicalchallenges of getting out there
and hunting Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Learning to pivot is what I like to call it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, so let's start off, I think, with let's start
off with new hunters and I'mthinking about this because
we've had conversations relatedto when you're going out there
and walking out in the woods inthe dark or coming back in the
dark, because I know you'vementioned that you've guys who
(01:15):
you've mentored in the past.
They end their hunts earlybecause they don't want to be
out in the woods.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh, you're referring to being afraid of the dark they
don't want to be out in thewoods.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, you're referring to them being afraid of the dark
, basically with what's outthere.
And you know, you've alwayssaid there's nothing out there
at night.
That isn't there during the day, right, but it is.
I can imagine just being alittle spookier you know as
you're walking out, yeah.
And you know it's something Idon't know.
If I actually really thoughtabout it, I would say there's
(01:46):
some more anxiety when, ifyou're coming down out of a tree
stand in the dark or going upinto a tree stand or a ladder
stand in the dark, just becauseyou know you might have a light
on but you're fumbling around alittle bit more.
So what was your process ofjust kind of getting used to
that, or was that never reallymuch of an issue for you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, I think there's anxiety for everybody to some
extent.
Now the level of anxietyobviously is different with
everybody that goes out there,but I think because we're so
visually driven as humans thatwhen we're limited on that
aspect we tend to get a littlenervous and it builds up anxiety
(02:29):
.
And when it's dark outespecially, I mean and the funny
thing is, this is how it iswhen you're out in the deep
timber or up in the mountains.
It's either pitch black, whereyou can't see your hand in front
of your face, or when themoon's out, it's like almost
daylight.
You can see everything yeah youknow what I mean.
Because there's no, there's noambient light coming from any
(02:53):
street lamps or or cities off inthe distance you know what I
mean, and so it's it's one orthe other.
It never seems to be in themiddle somewhere.
It's.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It always seems to be one or the other there is a bit
of a, since you mentioned, whenit's like the moon's out,
there's a level of creepiness Tohow bright it gets.
How bright it gets.
Yeah, and I know I've gonecamping when there was a full
moon out and there's no ambientlight whatsoever.
We were up by Mount Adams andTrout Lake that area camping and
(03:24):
bright out Like you didn't needto have a flashlight to move
around.
But we're, you know, I'm lookingup on this edge, this ledge,
we're at like the end of a lavaflow and I'm just thinking, boy,
it almost feels like what if Ilooked up there and something
was looking back at me, you know, yeah, so there's a little bit
(03:46):
of that.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and I think that everybody, you know, our
culture is such that it lends tothis horror film type mentality
where, oh my gosh, something'sout there going to get me.
You know, for me it was justtaking the time to think the
whole thing out in the sensethat you know that everybody's
afraid of bears.
(04:07):
Bears have got some kind ofbloodlust, but the reality is,
99.9% of the time bears don'twant anything to do with you.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
No, they're terrified of you.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, they just take off.
They don't want to be, andthey're very solitude creatures.
They want to be alone.
And so, yeah, they don't wantto hang out where there's a lot
of noise, they don't want tohang out where there's a lot of
rustling or anything going on.
They just soon get out of thearea and be solitude and peace
and quiet and do their thing.
(04:37):
Now, that's not you know.
I say that, but I've beencharged twice in all my years of
bear hunting.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But that's like well, bear hunting, okay.
So what?
30 years of bear hunting?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And both times I would say it was more my fault
than anything.
What had happened is Iunknowingly trapped the bear or
pinned the bear in a little areawhere he couldn't get out?
You know, just walking throughthe woods and all of a sudden,
you know, there's a big wall ofbriars or timber or whatever at
its back and I'm walking by andI'm cutting off the only path of
(05:17):
escape for it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
mean, and so it does the false charge and clacks its
teeth and huffs at you and stufflike that.
But all in all, bears reallydon't want anything to do.
The only thing that gets me alittle nervous at night is the
cats, and when I say cats I meancougars, I don't.
You know, bobcats don't scareme so much.
But I think that the turningpoint for me was as I watched
Cameron Haynes' video on trophyblacktail hunting, and one of
(05:42):
the ways that he trains to getready for hunting season is he
runs with his bow in the darktraining for marathons okay and
uh, not that I'm out theretraining for marathons, but I
thought that's a great idea toprepare yourself, to prep
yourself for being in the dark,and the reason we we get
(06:02):
uncomfortable with it is becausewe're not out there in it very
often.
But when we put ourselves inthat position over and over and
over again, you becomeaccustomed to some of the things
that used to scare you used tocreep you out.
They become old hat and theybecome less scary because you
figured out, oh okay, that soundwas a hoot owl.
(06:24):
Less scary because you figuredout oh okay, that sound was a
hoot owl, or that sound was abird going to roost or something
.
You know what I mean.
You figure it out and yourealize oh, it was nothing, it
was just my imagination justgetting carried away.
Yeah.
But I mean, I know guys thatwill not go out until the sun's
up and definitely come outbefore the sun goes down.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I had a couple and it was my first year when
everything's really new, and Ithink that's where, when it's
the newness- is what really kindof can start messing with your
head.
But it was, I had had a cameraup and we were I was doing some
minerals and I think I was goingout to check my camera, maybe
refresh the minerals and I hadcut a trail in and it was up
(07:10):
until maybe the last 20 feet andI had to walk through this
little patch of Oregon grapewhich is real kind of a real
thick, heavy leaf and you make alot of noise.
Well, the trail had cut inquiet and I hit that stuff and
something moved.
So there was a little jackfurthat was maybe six feet tall and
(07:32):
I couldn't see what was on theother side of it and I kind of
stepped into it and I heardsomething move and I stopped and
I listened and nothing, itdidn't keep moving.
So I okay, maybe I just heardsomething.
I'm just hearing things.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's what I was telling myself.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, I took two more steps and a bear bolted out of
there.
So I'm 15 feet from a bear andI always go in with a pistol
because I think that's justsmart to do.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Because I'm going in by myself and you just never
know, and it's better to have itand not need it than need it
and not have it.
Well, that was one time Ididn't have my pistol on me and
it spooked me and even though ittook off and I mean it was down
this ridge line- oh, they'relightning fast.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, and the reality is he could have killed you if
he wanted to, and you wouldn'teven.
There would have been nothingyou could have done.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It got out of there and, yeah, I just turned around
and just beelined it back to myvehicle and after that, and
granted, actually since thenI've gone out a lot without my
pistol, but there was that timeand then when I was doing sits
up in the tree stand, I alwaysfelt a little more secure.
I would say tree stand, Ialways felt a little more secure
(08:48):
.
I would say, but like one timesomething is moving through the
salal behind me and is cominginto me right but I can't see
what it is and it's sizableenough where it.
I can see it pushing through thebrush and I'm like, okay, am I
being stalked by a cougar orsomething?
What's's going on?
Because I know that they'llcome up behind you and I just
don't know what this is and Ican't really whip around in my.
(09:11):
I was just sitting in a groundblind chair and I couldn't whip
around to look because I don'twant to startle any deer or
anything that might be in thearea.
And it turns out it was aporcupine.
It comes walking up next to meand walks by and everything,
which was kind of cool, but itwas still that what, what's
stalking me?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
right, right, right.
But I mean you know it's funnybecause it's every horror show
you've ever seen.
You know, yeah, the dog man,the moth man, bigfoot, you know
freddy krueger you know, j.
It's just like dude.
You are not that important tothe world, just relax.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And then hearing some bird I'd never heard before
making a bunch of racket.
And when I'm wearing thoseheadphones or the amplifying ear
protection for shooting, well,that's just amplifying
everything.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(10:09):
For shooting, well, that's justamplifying everything.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And I mean even like I got adeer that did a snort wheeze
about 40 yards away across thisswamp from me.
It just scared the crud out ofme because I was wearing those
and it just sounded like it wasright next to me, uh-huh.
So there's always those thingsthat yep yeah, there's no
familiarity uh when you're newto it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And so that unfamiliar or unfamiliarity is
what stirs all the fears of allthe possibilities of what it
could be and how things couldtranspire in the next few
minutes, as it's stalking youand it wants to eat you.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, you know, and we laugh about it now, but I
mean, that's the way guys reallythink at times, you know yeah,
and if I really, if I thinkthrough it now, if a cat was
coming in, I wouldn't have heardit pushing through brush coming
at me yeah exactly you know itwould just all of a sudden be on
(11:01):
top of me.
You know, biting my neck, yeah,yeah so, but it was just kind of
funny and I know with of me youknow, biting my neck, yeah,
something, yeah, so, but it wasjust kind of funny and I know
with a lot of the mental it'sjust doing it over and over
again and I you know what'sfunny is just sitting here
talking about it I think thatthat being out there in the
woods because when you get lost,uh, the panic and and the, the
(11:23):
anxiety that they can actuallyjust grip you sets in so quick
and so easy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I think and it's the same with what we're talking
about here as far as going outat night and everything, I think
because we're so withdrawn fromthat on a daily basis, you know
, we're not like pioneers.
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
We're sleeping in wagons or outunder the moon in the rain,
that kind of no.
We're in homes and they're niceand warm and we're watching TV
and whatnot.
(11:49):
But I think because we're sowithdrawn from that environment
that all of the littleidiosyncrasies and nuances of
being out there take a littlebit of time for us to get used
to.
Nuances of being out there takea little bit of time for us to
get used to and we tend to blowthings way out of proportion
because we don't know them.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
The unfamiliar environment.
Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And so.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So you know, with us doing the style of hunting that
we're doing, set hunting, andyou're taking the same trail in
and the same trail out every day, right Every morning, every
evening, set hunting, and you'retaking the same trail in and
the same trail out every day,right every morning, every
evening, so that actually it's,there's not really a fear of
getting lost right becauseyou're always going the same
place.
But you've done elk hunting,where it's the run and gun, you
(12:37):
know, or spot and stock for guyswho are doing that guys may be
interested in that getting lost,and now it's.
It's harder with like gps it isharder now.
Yes, yeah, but that's almost afalse sense of security, though
too false sense yeah, very muchso.
But what was it like?
How did you keep your bearingsin in those situations where
(12:59):
you're going in maybe an areayou're not familiar with, but
but it's that you're going to bemoving Right, right?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And so I didn't always do that until I got a GPS
.
And my first GPS it wasabsolutely basic and I used it
to get from point A to point Band from point B back to point A
.
So you know, I'd get out of therig, turn the GPS on, let it
(13:26):
connect to the satellites andthen I would mark my truck as a
waypoint.
save that, turn the GPS off, gohunt okay obviously making sure
my batteries were brand newevery time yeah, yeah yeah, and
then go hunt, do what I had todo, whatever, and then when I
was done hunting, turn the gpson, let it acquire the
(13:48):
satellites and then pull up thatwaypoint for my truck and I
could be five, six miles awayfrom my truck you know, but it's
just pointing me right back.
You know, some guys will leavetheir bread crumbs on or their
trail tracker, whatever, andit'll give them the exact route
to come back on to go back, yeahand I never, I never did that.
(14:08):
I didn't want to, I didn't wantto risk, uh, using that battery
life, you know, because, uh,there were times where you know
your headlamp you're so far awayby the time you get halfway
back your headlamp is is thebatteries there are done.
So I'm using the GPS, you knowas a light yeah, coming back and
whatnot.
(14:30):
But up until then, before theGPS, I never really strayed that
far and I was always reallyfamiliar with the country I was
going in and what I would do isI would push that envelope just
a little bit farther every time.
You know what I mean andfamiliarize myself that way with
it.
But yeah, when the GPSs cameout, man, it was a game changer,
(14:53):
because then it wasn't worryingabout how to get back to my rig
, I was just focused on the huntand could stay in there and,
yeah, focused on the hunt andcould stay in there, you know,
and and uh, yeah, it was, it wasmuch easier that way.
But gps's have come a long way,because when they first came out
, you really I mean they wereoffering classes at the college,
yeah, to learn how to use them,you know, and now it's, it's so
(15:14):
basic and it's so simple.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, your, your phones have that, that feature and
stuff.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The only downside is You've got to make sure it's
charged.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You've got to be able to charge it.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And so you know, with that it's for the anxiety or
the mental aspect of it, so thatbasically my head can stay in
the hunt.
I have like a backup batterypack, but the battery packs that
I use for my heated vest I canalso use to.
I have a cable I can charge myphone if I needed to.
(15:49):
And because I'm on my phoneplaying games all day to just
pass the time, so am I, and so,yeah, just to have extra battery
life, and I figured out howmuch battery that my vest will
use at which setting, so that Idon't kill it with all of it
with.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, just sitting there trying to stay warm and
stuff.
And another one that I see thatkind of trips guys up,
especially if you're switchingto tree stand hunting, which is
new for a lot of guys.
So going up and you go uppretty high up into trees,
you'll be 25 feet up if you can.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And I mean that's pushing it for some guys who
just don't like heights.
And I know my ladder stand wentup to 18 feet and that was
tough because I do not likeheights and I'm in the most
secure type of platform huntingplatform that there probably is
(16:47):
a ladder stand and it's stillreally nerve-wracking when
you're first starting out yeah.
And so any tricks that you'velearned for.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So, and it's funny that you say that you're afraid
of heights, aaron, I'm afraid ofheights myself, but I'm an
electrician by trade and so Ispend a lot of time in lifts and
climbing ladders and installinglights and all that stuff.
So through my trade I've becomeI don't want to say-
Desensitized.
(17:20):
Yeah, or comfortable withheights.
I've just become acquaintedwith them and know my
limitations more.
Yeah.
And when you first got yours, Ikept telling you, the more times
you climb up and down, the morerelaxed you're going to find
yourself becoming, and that'sthe key right there.
You got to put time in on it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You just really do.
But there's a big misconceptionthat you've got to get up high
with a tree stand, and youreally don't.
I know a guy that doesn't put atree stand any higher than six
foot.
Yeah.
And he kills a lot of animals alot of animals.
And I've killed a lot of bullsover in eastern Oregon out of a
tree stand sitting on wallowsand for years I had this one set
(18:05):
that I couldn't get any higherthan 12 feet yeah you know, and
I killed, you know, a number ofbulls off of that set and it's
just you know.
It's more along the lines ofwhat you're doing for scent
elimination and your ability tostay calm, and still more than
(18:26):
anything.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So it was kind of funny because last year me, my
first year I didn't feel likethere was any option, Like I had
to go up to 18 feet, and Idon't know if it was just no, no
, you need to go up because youhave to be above the air.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I think we see it on TV At that level.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
But I thought I was kind of picking that up from you
and no, no, you want to be uphigher.
And you gave me the reasons andstuff and so I was like, okay,
and I actually loaned my ladderstand to Alex this year and he
went up to about 12 feet.
He didn't put in one of thesections and I was like, oh yeah
(19:09):
, I guess that was an option,but where I was, it made more
sense to go up that high.
And, as you said, so when Ifirst started out that thing,
like I got up there, whiteknuckled to the, to the seat,
and so the platform was at 18feet and and so I'm sitting
about 20.
Yeah, probably about 20 feet iswhere the bottom of my seat was
.
I didn't want to move at all.
I like hitched into the safetyline and I mean it was.
(19:31):
I sat down and I'm trying toreach behind me.
I wouldn't just latch in andthen sit down where I could see
I was just fumbling around withit but not wanting to move Right
right Fumbling around with itbut not wanting to move, right
right, fumbling around with itand then like there was a
footrest where you kicked outthis bar, that acted like a
footrest.
I wouldn't kick that because Ididn't want to move.
(19:52):
Uh-huh, I was just so nervousand by the end it's yeah,
everything, it's just nothing.
Yeah.
It was.
You just get more Now.
Granted, if I'd used it thislast year that was my first year
If I'd used it this last year,it would have taken me a while
to get used to it again, but itprobably would have gone quicker
, because it eliminates theelement of you know, is this
(20:15):
thing going to collapse on me?
Well, I used it all year and itdidn't.
I mean you, and I went up in itand sat in it cause it was a
double seat one and did justfine, yeah, so that's just it.
It's fine, whether it's a Iwould say tree stand or anything
like that, it's just thatpractice.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, log some hours in on it
and and it don't take any timeat all.
You know, I remember when Ifirst started, uh, baiting for
bear and this was a coupledecades ago and, uh, my cousin
and I were doing it together andand we went and got our first
tree stands together oh, okay,and uh and so, uh, we both got
(20:56):
tree stands and everything and Iremember we were, I put mine up
and I was probably about 12, 15feet, uh-huh, maybe 12, more
closer to 12, I guess and uh, wewent to do my cousins after
that, and so I'm not a big guy,you know, and my, my cousin, he
he's probably two of me, okay,and he's not fat, he's just no
(21:18):
he's very solid, you know he's alinebacker.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and, and sowe're putting his stand up, and
and this is back when you had touse the screw in steps oh, the
trees and so I got all the stepsin there and whatnot, and we're
putting his stand up and he'stelling me where to put it and
how high to go and all thisstuff.
(21:39):
And then so I get done and heclimbs up into it and he's kind
of very cautious and everythingwe both had harnesses on I'm on
the ground and everything.
And I'm like are you sure youdon't want that higher?
He goes.
Are you kidding me?
He goes.
I'm way up here, he goes.
You look like an ant to me, youknow this is back when.
A Bug's Life came out and and hestarted quoting the caterpillar
, he says man, you guys looklike little ants down there.
(22:01):
And I just started laughing.
I walked over and I reached upand I grabbed the deck, the
platform of the tree stand fromthe ground and everything, but
he killed a 300-pounder bearfrom that stand four or five
days later.
Yeah.
So again, it's not about howhigh it's getting out of that
(22:22):
that wind stream, yes, but atthe same time you're not in that
that line of vision either youknow, they have a little bit of
a ceiling because there's justnot a lot of people that tree
stand hunt around here soanimals don't go through the
woods looking up yeah, yeah, butit's just it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
it's that practice, oh, absolutely, and I know even
for, because there's an aspectof for mindset, for overcoming
the physical and the mental Well, when you're up shooting down
at an angle.
That's why they suggest andyou've suggested this that if
(23:01):
tree stand is new to you, set itup someplace where you can
actually shoot your bow at itand I know you had asha out in
the backyard practicing fromthat tree stand.
You put up in a tree in yourbackyard with a, a target yeah
but it was.
But yeah, it's a different shotyeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
you want to aim for the bottom third.
Uh, just because they, with theway the arrow comes out of the
riser and everything, you'regoing to hit center mass or just
above it.
If you're aiming for the bottomthird and yeah, I did that for
Osh and I tell everybody at theseminars my wife prefers to hunt
out of ground blinds Well, wewere going to Kansas and I knew
(23:39):
that she would be hunting out ofa tree stand while we were down
there.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Might not be an option, yeah, yeah.
So now the physical challenges.
You know it might be where youcan't do a bow because you can't
drop back, or you know there's,there's some physical, there's
a certain point where you can'tdo the 15 miles of walking, or
five miles or a mile, and eventhinking of, like Bud's dad, he
goes in and he can walk in acertain distance, but there's no
(24:14):
climbing tree stands, there'sno, there's just physically
limited on what you're capableof doing.
There's just physically limitedon what you're capable of doing
and I know there's ways, likeyou, and currently DJ is
prepping because he's doing alot of that backcountry stuff
and getting into that and he'shiking around with a weighted
(24:40):
pack, putting 50 pounds in apack and walking up and down the
hill to the house.
But to like to get ready forthe physical aspect of just the
whole hunt.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
You know, and boy, that's a great question, and I
wish people on TV would coverthis more often.
You know, I've said it amillion times to younger guys at
seminars and whatnot.
In that they'll come up andthey'll be like, yeah, I do this
, this is, and I just look at it, well, I was young once too.
Yeah, and that's something thatwe're all gonna have in common.
(25:09):
It seems like just yesterday Iwas 18 or in my 20s, you know,
and I was hiking, you know, witha pack on full pack, and we
were going in, uh, up aroundpackwood and all that and and
doing hills and and turkey,hunting the gorge and all that
and, and then overnight I became55, you know, and I got lyme's
(25:31):
disease and I got scar tissue inmy hips and everything.
And then, like you were saying,the other night, we, we spoke at
uh, hunter's Hunt Club, rather,and the first thing, one of the
guys comes over and heintroduces himself to us and
everything.
But one of the statements thathe made to me right up front
(25:53):
really stood out and he saysyeah, this club's getting old,
we're all aging out.
We lost some guys last coupleyears ago with COVID and
everything like that, and Ithink that the way life is is
that you don't recognize thatyou're aging until it starts
(26:13):
happening in increments.
Because what I mean is this isthat when you're a kid, you
can't wait to get out of highschool, and it seems like it
takes forever to do that, youknow.
And then you get out of highschool or college or whatever,
and you're finally on your ownand it's like everything seems
great, right, or you get married.
(26:34):
Yeah.
And then, all of a sudden, youwake up one morning and 10 years
has gone by.
You've been graduated for 10years.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And you're like, wow, where did that time go, right?
And then so you're in your 30s,now and everything.
And then the next big milemarker for me was about 38.
And it was like, my goodness,well, you know, it just seems
like yesterday In my mind.
I'm still 18.
Yeah.
You know, and now you know, andnow you know.
(27:05):
Then after that it was 45 andit was like holy cats, I'm 45,
I'm the old guy.
Now you know 50 it's like ohyeah, and now I'm 55 and in my
mind I'm still thinking I canremember being 18.
It just seems like it was aweek ago, you know yeah and it's
gone, and and that's when Istarted realizing your body is
only gonna give you so manyhunts.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And then it's gonna say I'm done and and at a
certain point it's going to makethose hunts a little more
difficult, where you have toadapt right.
And I've contemplated like it'dbe neat to go elk hunting, but
I don't know if I got to walkmiles and miles back in and it's
hiking, hiking one out, youknow where it's a few trips of
(27:47):
three miles in and you got tohike some of it out and then go
back and get the rest of it andhike it.
Yeah, I mean I could do that,but it's going to be like 24
hours of straight hiking.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You're going to be so sore the next day You're not
going to get out of bed.
There's no amount of ibuprofenthat's going to cure that and I
sort of think, going back tothat, it was just okay.
When I was young, I wasinvincible, and because I
thought that way, I made themistake of not staying on top of
(28:20):
my health in the sense thatworking out and staying in shape
.
Cameron.
Haynes works out year-round, anda lot of these guys that hunt
well into their 60s and 70s workout year-around From the time
that they're young.
They start working outyear-round and when I say young,
(28:43):
I mean in their 20s and 30s Notto be Mr Olympia or the Atlas
statue or whatever.
They're doing it to stay inshape, to keep their body safe
from injury.
And that is the key, becausewhen you start hiking and
carrying all this stuff on yourback, you're breaking down your
joints, shoulders, your knees,your, your back, your lower back
(29:03):
, your neck.
It all adds up, you know, andall of the all of the careless
thinking that we did youngerends up coming back to haunt us
later on.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, you know, playing sports hurt and that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
yeah, but it's a lot of.
It's just prepping ahead oftime and and and doing something
year-round physical, yeah,activity.
I remember the personal trainerthat I had, your uh, motion is
lotion, you know, keep movingthose joints, keep moving your
body, because that's going tokeep that movement's going to
(29:39):
keep everything right loosenedup.
And I've noticed that, like Ilike to go swimming and I
noticed my shoulders will reallystart tightening up and the
best cure for that is to goswimming for a month, a couple
times a week and just startusing all those joints, all
those muscles and that movementand I'm fine, yeah, but I
(30:01):
noticed like I've got kind of abalky knee and so one of the
things it just is.
And so there are times if,especially when I'm going into a
new area, I'll bring a hikingpole with me for just that extra
stability.
you know cause having that, yougot to lift one leg up to step
over a log or something likethat right and you know, and I'm
(30:25):
looking for more areas like Idon't want to go down a real
steep muddy slope to get to myspot, and that's what I'm saying
.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
There's a recognition of limitations yeah, you know
what I mean and I think so.
I love archery yeah but I thinkat one point in my hunting
career I will become more of anopportunist than I will an
archery hunter, in the sensethat if I develop bursitis in
the shoulder or some kind ofarthritis or whatnot, that keeps
me from, or I feel it coming onit may be better that I switch
(30:56):
to a different weapon that isn'tas physically demanding lower
my poundage down instead ofbeing, oh, I can pull 70, some
pounds.
You know, and I could when I was.
I mean, I worked in an archeryshop and I was yarding bows back
all day long, you know, andit's like building those
shoulder and the back muscles upand pulling 70.
I was drawn 80 pounds on someof the bows at the shop.
(31:21):
But you know, you look, you kindof lose that alpha male
machismo push through the painright after a while and you
realize okay, let's not bestupid, let's just be smart,
because I want to keep doingthis, because I want to keep
doing this, and that's themotivating factor, with both the
physical and the mental, isokay, I want to keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So what's the best way to approach this?
And even thinking about likegear.
So I have a regular pair ofhiking boots and I really like
you know, I need to go get somenew ones, but my lacrosse-style
boots get better traction butthey don't really have the
angles, but it's like I of want,would rather have the traction
(32:03):
when I'm walking out there,right, so I end up wearing those
out when I'm kind of walkingaround, but they're not as, like
, my feet hurt more.
So there's almost thattrade-off like which?
Which way do I want to go withwith this?
But thinking through like gear,like I said, you know, having
that extra battery pack before Igo out, having you know when
(32:24):
I'm going out and checking out anew area, you know, and I carry
a pistol with me what kind offootwear am I wearing?
What kind of clothing am Iwearing?
Do I have?
If something were to happen andI got stuck out in the woods,
because you know, you slip, youfall and you might be laying out
in the woods for several, okay,do I have an emergency blanket?
You know, can I?
(32:44):
Am I going to be able tosurvive a night right right out
in the?
You know just if I'm going outand checking my cameras on it,
walking on a trail that I'vewalked 30, 40, 50 times already,
you know.
But something happened.
I wasn't paying attention, likemy first year, the last night
coming in uh, the last night asI was leaving, last night I was
(33:05):
hunting I decided, well, I'mjust going to haul all this
stuff out with me and I evenwent and got my trail camera.
So I'm loaded down with stuff,and I stepped over the first log
that I'd stepped over a dozen,50 times already, and I forgot
about the second one, becauseall this stuff is like hanging
from me, just face planted rightinto the ground, and I think I
(33:26):
face plant at least once ortwice a year.
It's just par for the course.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
But and that's a real .
That's a real thing because atour age I was you start losing
yours and it's funny because Iwas an athlete, you know, and I
mean I played sports in college,you know, it was just very much
an athlete and have alwaysconsidered myself that and yeah,
now my sense of balance, theonly kid, it starts going and
(33:53):
it's kind of humbling, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, but it's a reality and you have to face
that yeah, I've, I've actuallystarted and I need to actually
get back to doing it again, butI've tried doing some different
types of yoga and it actuallyhelps, not just like with the
strength and everything butbalance and all of that.
So that's just one of those likeI never thought I'd try yoga,
(34:18):
but it's going to help my.
It helps my hunts because ithelps keep me safer.
But it was funny when I youknow it's dark I've got gear all
over me and I face plant intothe ground and I remember the
last couple of times I'veslipped and fallen.
It's just you lay there for aminute and you don't want to
move because you don't want tofind out that you really did
(34:39):
hurt yourself.
Yeah.
And then you slowly move yourbody.
Okay, nothing, no sharp pain.
Okay, I didn't break anything,we're good, I can stand up.
And because no cell coverage,I'm gonna have to drag myself
100, 150 yards to this, to theroad, and hope I can get out of
(34:59):
there otherwise.
So yeah, it's just one of those.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
As you get older, your thought process changes,
your way of thinking changesbecause you start recognizing
your mortality, I guess is a wayto say it.
You're not invincible.
Everybody was young once and weall age and that's going to
happen to everyone.
But if you want to keep doingthis, you know you gotta, you
(35:24):
gotta start taking care ofyourself when you're young so
that you can do it longer whenyou're old.
You know, I, I tell guys, uh,my son and my daughter, you know
, uh, they're, they're kind ofthey're at the age where they're
, they're starting their careersand they're, and they're,
they're getting going andwhatnot.
And we talk about financespretty openly and we always have
with our kids and stuff.
(35:44):
And who is the financial guy?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Dave Ramsey.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Dave Ramsey has that saying, that quote that says if
you want to live like no oneelse, you need to live like no
one else now.
Yeah.
And the point being that he'smaking there is that if you want
to be able to retire early andlive, you know, like you know
Comfortably, Comfortably youknow, like your friends are
(36:08):
working until they're 70 toretire, or something like that,
and you're retiring at 58.
You've got to be able to makeyourself live in the present,
like you're not like anyone else, like your friends are out
spending money, you're saving it, you're paying, you're being
responsible, you're paying bills, you're paying the mortgage,
double payments on the mortgage,so that you can live like
nobody else later yeah you know,and it's like that, when, when
(36:33):
you start thinking about huntingand if you want to keep doing
this and live like nobody elselater, that's your age I mean
you have to take care ofyourself now, yeah yeah you got
to live like nobody else.
Now you got to be doing theexercise when everybody else is
out eating the junk food and allthat stuff.
Yeah, because it comes back tohaunt you.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, it really does and I know, probably a silver
lining.
I mean I would prefer that wewe were still able to bait, but
the silver lining is that wedon't have to go in every couple
of days and farmer carry 40pounds worth of apples a half
mile up and down over.
You know, up and down differentterrain and everything like
(37:12):
that, but it was funny.
So by the end of season, likewhen I first started, you know
it's a bit more of a workout,but by the end of season it was
like pop in, pop out, go do myother set another half mile in
what can and it's I'm in decentshape.
Yeah, it's like okay, this itgets easier yeah that's just the
thing is.
It just gets easier the moreyou do it it's that right you
(37:36):
know that continual movement.
So last thing, and this isprobably, uh, the mental
challenge of the and for somepeople it's not much of a
challenge, but some it might beis the isolation, like some guys
wouldn't consider.
I don't think going huntingalone and sitting in a tray
(37:56):
stand or a ground blind, or evenif spot and stock or uh
glassing clear cuts or you knowwhatever type of hunting you're
doing, but just to go do thatalone and being able to sit
there by yourself all day.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I do too.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean, I seriously love that.
I remember a few about 10, 15years back.
I was working for anothercompany and, uh, I was in a
position where I would take thewhole month of september off and
we would hunt over in easternoregon uh, me and and a bunch of
guys, a bunch of buddies andwhatnot, and and we'd all go
(38:37):
over for the opening weekend forelk and they would come back
after that weekend.
They would pack up sunday andhead home and I stayed over
there the whole time, the wholemonth by myself.
Uh, well, I say not the wholemonth.
They, they would come back, youknow, the last week and a half,
two weeks of season yeah whichis the end of september, but I
(38:57):
would stay over there for weeksby myself and uh, yeah, I just I
didn't.
That kind of stuff neverbothered me.
You know, I like being alonewith my thoughts, I recharge, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
You know, for me that's the way it is, but I get
it.
Some people don't like beingalone, they don't like the
solitude, they don't lookforward to the quiet or anything
like that.
They want the life to be busy.
And I get that.
We're all wired a littledifferent and there's nothing
wrong with that, but I mean yougotta find a way to occupy your
(39:30):
mind.
Even if you're by yourself, youstill have to find a way to
occupy your mind and you have tobe comfortable with being with
you, with you and like anextreme version so we were
talking about.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So this last season I went out early and I was in
stand just right before six,maybe five, 10 minutes before
six, and it wasn't light outtill about 7.30.
Well.
I couldn't turn on my phone tostart playing games or anything
like that, so I had to sit inthe dark not doing anything for
(40:04):
an hour and a half Just pitchblack.
If I held my hand in front ofmy face couldn't see it.
It was just pitch black and Icouldn't do anything.
I just had to sit there and donothing, and for some people
that's got to be torture.
Oh, yeah, but for me well, thisis part of it.
It's that.
(40:26):
It's part of what I'm doingthis hunt.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of soulsearching that goes on.
You find out who you really are.
And I tell my wife all the timeI wouldn't be a good pioneer,
because those are real men.
You know what I mean.
Uh-huh, all that.
I wouldn't be a good pioneerBecause those were real men, you
know what I mean.
I mean I like creature comforts, I like coming home and taking
a shower every day.
I don't have to come home everyday, I can stay out.
(40:51):
You know I would stay.
Like I said, I took the monthoff and stayed over there and
showered about every four orfive days and you know, go into
town and do laundry and whatnot.
But you're talking pioneers,those guys I mean.
You get a rash, they just livewith it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
mean it's not like they're running down to the
pharmacy or 7-Eleven or anythinglike that.
I mean they were real men, butwe're all softer now and I don't
mean that in a negative way.
That's just the reality of ourculture.
We really are and that's allright.
That's all right.
And if you find yourself thatyou can't handle the solitude, a
(41:27):
little bit of advice drive ondown to Walmart, go into the
sporting section, buy yourself aWilson volleyball put a
handprint on it and set it nextto you in the stand.
Talk to it when you want.
Don't let anyone see youtalking to it.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
You don't even have to talk out loud because Wilson
he's mental telepathy.
That's right, he knows and hecan respond.
Yeah.
Yeah, but just keep you crazyin the woods.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
And with that I think we're done.
So we'll talk to you next week.
Bye-bye.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave, so thisweek we want to talk about
overcoming challenges, bothphysical and mental.
So, as we've done the classes,I know that this becomes an
issue and we actually justrecently did a kind of a seminar
quick seminar just the othernight with a group of guys who
(00:22):
are getting older and, as yousay, you know, we only have so
many hunts, hunts in us and sowanting to stay out in the field
as long as possible or possiblyget out in the field, I think
for you know, for changing theway you hunt, whether it's tree
stand or something like that, oreven being new to hunting, I
(00:43):
think there's some mentalchallenges and for anybody there
could be some physicalchallenges of getting out there
and hunting Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Learning to pivot is what I like to call it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, so let's start off, I think, with let's start
off with new hunters and I'mthinking about this because
we've had conversations relatedto when you're going out there
and walking out in the woods inthe dark or coming back in the
dark, because I know you'vementioned that you've guys who
(01:15):
you've mentored in the past.
They end their hunts earlybecause they don't want to be
out in the woods.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh, you're referring to being afraid of the dark they
don't want to be out in thewoods.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, you're referring to them being afraid of the dark
, basically with what's outthere.
And you know, you've alwayssaid there's nothing out there
at night.
That isn't there during the day, right, but it is.
I can imagine just being alittle spookier you know as
you're walking out, yeah.
And you know it's something Idon't know.
If I actually really thoughtabout it, I would say there's
(01:46):
some more anxiety when, ifyou're coming down out of a tree
stand in the dark or going upinto a tree stand or a ladder
stand in the dark, just becauseyou know you might have a light
on but you're fumbling around alittle bit more.
So what was your process ofjust kind of getting used to
that, or was that never reallymuch of an issue for you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, I think there's anxiety for everybody to some
extent.
Now the level of anxietyobviously is different with
everybody that goes out there,but I think because we're so
visually driven as humans thatwhen we're limited on that
aspect we tend to get a littlenervous and it builds up anxiety
(02:29):
.
And when it's dark outespecially, I mean and the funny
thing is, this is how it iswhen you're out in the deep
timber or up in the mountains.
It's either pitch black, whereyou can't see your hand in front
of your face, or when themoon's out, it's like almost
daylight.
You can see everything yeah youknow what I mean.
Because there's no, there's noambient light coming from any
(02:53):
street lamps or or cities off inthe distance you know what I
mean, and so it's it's one orthe other.
It never seems to be in themiddle somewhere.
It's.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It always seems to be one or the other there is a bit
of a, since you mentioned, whenit's like the moon's out,
there's a level of creepiness Tohow bright it gets.
How bright it gets.
Yeah, and I know I've gonecamping when there was a full
moon out and there's no ambientlight whatsoever.
We were up by Mount Adams andTrout Lake that area camping and
(03:24):
bright out Like you didn't needto have a flashlight to move
around.
But we're, you know, I'm lookingup on this edge, this ledge,
we're at like the end of a lavaflow and I'm just thinking, boy,
it almost feels like what if Ilooked up there and something
was looking back at me, you know, yeah, so there's a little bit
(03:46):
of that.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and I think that everybody, you know, our
culture is such that it lends tothis horror film type mentality
where, oh my gosh, something'sout there going to get me.
You know, for me it was justtaking the time to think the
whole thing out in the sensethat you know that everybody's
afraid of bears.
(04:07):
Bears have got some kind ofbloodlust, but the reality is,
99.9% of the time bears don'twant anything to do with you.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
No, they're terrified of you.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, they just take off.
They don't want to be, andthey're very solitude creatures.
They want to be alone.
And so, yeah, they don't wantto hang out where there's a lot
of noise, they don't want tohang out where there's a lot of
rustling or anything going on.
They just soon get out of thearea and be solitude and peace
and quiet and do their thing.
(04:37):
Now, that's not you know.
I say that, but I've beencharged twice in all my years of
bear hunting.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But that's like well, bear hunting, okay.
So what?
30 years of bear hunting?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And both times I would say it was more my fault
than anything.
What had happened is Iunknowingly trapped the bear or
pinned the bear in a little areawhere he couldn't get out?
You know, just walking throughthe woods and all of a sudden,
you know, there's a big wall ofbriars or timber or whatever at
its back and I'm walking by andI'm cutting off the only path of
(05:17):
escape for it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
mean, and so it does the false charge and clacks its
teeth and huffs at you and stufflike that.
But all in all, bears reallydon't want anything to do.
The only thing that gets me alittle nervous at night is the
cats, and when I say cats I meancougars, I don't.
You know, bobcats don't scareme so much.
But I think that the turningpoint for me was as I watched
Cameron Haynes' video on trophyblacktail hunting, and one of
(05:42):
the ways that he trains to getready for hunting season is he
runs with his bow in the darktraining for marathons okay and
uh, not that I'm out theretraining for marathons, but I
thought that's a great idea toprepare yourself, to prep
yourself for being in the dark,and the reason we we get
(06:02):
uncomfortable with it is becausewe're not out there in it very
often.
But when we put ourselves inthat position over and over and
over again, you becomeaccustomed to some of the things
that used to scare you used tocreep you out.
They become old hat and theybecome less scary because you
figured out, oh okay, that soundwas a hoot owl.
(06:24):
Less scary because you figuredout oh okay, that sound was a
hoot owl, or that sound was abird going to roost or something
.
You know what I mean.
You figure it out and yourealize oh, it was nothing, it
was just my imagination justgetting carried away.
Yeah.
But I mean, I know guys thatwill not go out until the sun's
up and definitely come outbefore the sun goes down.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I had a couple and it was my first year when
everything's really new, and Ithink that's where, when it's
the newness- is what really kindof can start messing with your
head.
But it was, I had had a cameraup and we were I was doing some
minerals and I think I was goingout to check my camera, maybe
refresh the minerals and I hadcut a trail in and it was up
(07:10):
until maybe the last 20 feet andI had to walk through this
little patch of Oregon grapewhich is real kind of a real
thick, heavy leaf and you make alot of noise.
Well, the trail had cut inquiet and I hit that stuff and
something moved.
So there was a little jackfurthat was maybe six feet tall and
(07:32):
I couldn't see what was on theother side of it and I kind of
stepped into it and I heardsomething move and I stopped and
I listened and nothing, itdidn't keep moving.
So I okay, maybe I just heardsomething.
I'm just hearing things.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's what I was telling myself.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, I took two more steps and a bear bolted out of
there.
So I'm 15 feet from a bear andI always go in with a pistol
because I think that's justsmart to do.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Because I'm going in by myself and you just never
know, and it's better to have itand not need it than need it
and not have it.
Well, that was one time Ididn't have my pistol on me and
it spooked me and even though ittook off and I mean it was down
this ridge line- oh, they'relightning fast.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, and the reality is he could have killed you if
he wanted to, and you wouldn'teven.
There would have been nothingyou could have done.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It got out of there and, yeah, I just turned around
and just beelined it back to myvehicle and after that, and
granted, actually since thenI've gone out a lot without my
pistol, but there was that timeand then when I was doing sits
up in the tree stand, I alwaysfelt a little more secure.
I would say tree stand, Ialways felt a little more secure
(08:48):
.
I would say, but like one timesomething is moving through the
salal behind me and is cominginto me right but I can't see
what it is and it's sizableenough where it.
I can see it pushing through thebrush and I'm like, okay, am I
being stalked by a cougar orsomething?
What's's going on?
Because I know that they'llcome up behind you and I just
don't know what this is and Ican't really whip around in my.
(09:11):
I was just sitting in a groundblind chair and I couldn't whip
around to look because I don'twant to startle any deer or
anything that might be in thearea.
And it turns out it was aporcupine.
It comes walking up next to meand walks by and everything,
which was kind of cool, but itwas still that what, what's
stalking me?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
right, right, right.
But I mean you know it's funnybecause it's every horror show
you've ever seen.
You know, yeah, the dog man,the moth man, bigfoot, you know
freddy krueger you know, j.
It's just like dude.
You are not that important tothe world, just relax.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And then hearing some bird I'd never heard before
making a bunch of racket.
And when I'm wearing thoseheadphones or the amplifying ear
protection for shooting, well,that's just amplifying
everything.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(10:09):
For shooting, well, that's justamplifying everything.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And I mean even like I got adeer that did a snort wheeze
about 40 yards away across thisswamp from me.
It just scared the crud out ofme because I was wearing those
and it just sounded like it wasright next to me, uh-huh.
So there's always those thingsthat yep yeah, there's no
familiarity uh when you're newto it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And so that unfamiliar or unfamiliarity is
what stirs all the fears of allthe possibilities of what it
could be and how things couldtranspire in the next few
minutes, as it's stalking youand it wants to eat you.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, you know, and we laugh about it now, but I
mean, that's the way guys reallythink at times, you know yeah,
and if I really, if I thinkthrough it now, if a cat was
coming in, I wouldn't have heardit pushing through brush coming
at me yeah exactly you know itwould just all of a sudden be on
(11:01):
top of me.
You know, biting my neck, yeah,yeah so, but it was just kind of
funny and I know with of me youknow, biting my neck, yeah,
something, yeah, so, but it wasjust kind of funny and I know
with a lot of the mental it'sjust doing it over and over
again and I you know what'sfunny is just sitting here
talking about it I think thatthat being out there in the
woods because when you get lost,uh, the panic and and the, the
(11:23):
anxiety that they can actuallyjust grip you sets in so quick
and so easy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I think and it's the same with what we're talking
about here as far as going outat night and everything, I think
because we're so withdrawn fromthat on a daily basis, you know
, we're not like pioneers.
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
We're sleeping in wagons or outunder the moon in the rain,
that kind of no.
We're in homes and they're niceand warm and we're watching TV
and whatnot.
(11:49):
But I think because we're sowithdrawn from that environment
that all of the littleidiosyncrasies and nuances of
being out there take a littlebit of time for us to get used
to.
Nuances of being out there takea little bit of time for us to
get used to and we tend to blowthings way out of proportion
because we don't know them.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
The unfamiliar environment.
Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And so.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So you know, with us doing the style of hunting that
we're doing, set hunting, andyou're taking the same trail in
and the same trail out every day, right Every morning, every
evening, set hunting, and you'retaking the same trail in and
the same trail out every day,right every morning, every
evening, so that actually it's,there's not really a fear of
getting lost right becauseyou're always going the same
place.
But you've done elk hunting,where it's the run and gun, you
(12:37):
know, or spot and stock for guyswho are doing that guys may be
interested in that getting lost,and now it's.
It's harder with like gps it isharder now.
Yes, yeah, but that's almost afalse sense of security, though
too false sense yeah, very muchso.
But what was it like?
How did you keep your bearingsin in those situations where
(12:59):
you're going in maybe an areayou're not familiar with, but
but it's that you're going to bemoving Right, right?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And so I didn't always do that until I got a GPS
.
And my first GPS it wasabsolutely basic and I used it
to get from point A to point Band from point B back to point A
.
So you know, I'd get out of therig, turn the GPS on, let it
(13:26):
connect to the satellites andthen I would mark my truck as a
waypoint.
save that, turn the GPS off, gohunt okay obviously making sure
my batteries were brand newevery time yeah, yeah yeah, and
then go hunt, do what I had todo, whatever, and then when I
was done hunting, turn the gpson, let it acquire the
(13:48):
satellites and then pull up thatwaypoint for my truck and I
could be five, six miles awayfrom my truck you know, but it's
just pointing me right back.
You know, some guys will leavetheir bread crumbs on or their
trail tracker, whatever, andit'll give them the exact route
to come back on to go back, yeahand I never, I never did that.
(14:08):
I didn't want to, I didn't wantto risk, uh, using that battery
life, you know, because, uh,there were times where you know
your headlamp you're so far awayby the time you get halfway
back your headlamp is is thebatteries there are done.
So I'm using the GPS, you knowas a light yeah, coming back and
whatnot.
(14:30):
But up until then, before theGPS, I never really strayed that
far and I was always reallyfamiliar with the country I was
going in and what I would do isI would push that envelope just
a little bit farther every time.
You know what I mean andfamiliarize myself that way with
it.
But yeah, when the GPSs cameout, man, it was a game changer,
(14:53):
because then it wasn't worryingabout how to get back to my rig
, I was just focused on the huntand could stay in there and,
yeah, focused on the hunt andcould stay in there, you know,
and and uh, yeah, it was, it wasmuch easier that way.
But gps's have come a long way,because when they first came out
, you really I mean they wereoffering classes at the college,
yeah, to learn how to use them,you know, and now it's, it's so
(15:14):
basic and it's so simple.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, your, your phones have that, that feature and
stuff.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The only downside is You've got to make sure it's
charged.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You've got to be able to charge it.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And so you know, with that it's for the anxiety or
the mental aspect of it, so thatbasically my head can stay in
the hunt.
I have like a backup batterypack, but the battery packs that
I use for my heated vest I canalso use to.
I have a cable I can charge myphone if I needed to.
(15:49):
And because I'm on my phoneplaying games all day to just
pass the time, so am I, and so,yeah, just to have extra battery
life, and I figured out howmuch battery that my vest will
use at which setting, so that Idon't kill it with all of it
with.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, just sitting there trying to stay warm and
stuff.
And another one that I see thatkind of trips guys up,
especially if you're switchingto tree stand hunting, which is
new for a lot of guys.
So going up and you go uppretty high up into trees,
you'll be 25 feet up if you can.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And I mean that's pushing it for some guys who
just don't like heights.
And I know my ladder stand wentup to 18 feet and that was
tough because I do not likeheights and I'm in the most
secure type of platform huntingplatform that there probably is
(16:47):
a ladder stand and it's stillreally nerve-wracking when
you're first starting out yeah.
And so any tricks that you'velearned for.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So, and it's funny that you say that you're afraid
of heights, aaron, I'm afraid ofheights myself, but I'm an
electrician by trade and so Ispend a lot of time in lifts and
climbing ladders and installinglights and all that stuff.
So through my trade I've becomeI don't want to say-
Desensitized.
(17:20):
Yeah, or comfortable withheights.
I've just become acquaintedwith them and know my
limitations more.
Yeah.
And when you first got yours, Ikept telling you, the more times
you climb up and down, the morerelaxed you're going to find
yourself becoming, and that'sthe key right there.
You got to put time in on it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You just really do.
But there's a big misconceptionthat you've got to get up high
with a tree stand, and youreally don't.
I know a guy that doesn't put atree stand any higher than six
foot.
Yeah.
And he kills a lot of animals alot of animals.
And I've killed a lot of bullsover in eastern Oregon out of a
tree stand sitting on wallowsand for years I had this one set
(18:05):
that I couldn't get any higherthan 12 feet yeah you know, and
I killed, you know, a number ofbulls off of that set and it's
just you know.
It's more along the lines ofwhat you're doing for scent
elimination and your ability tostay calm, and still more than
(18:26):
anything.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So it was kind of funny because last year me, my
first year I didn't feel likethere was any option, Like I had
to go up to 18 feet, and Idon't know if it was just no, no
, you need to go up because youhave to be above the air.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I think we see it on TV At that level.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
But I thought I was kind of picking that up from you
and no, no, you want to be uphigher.
And you gave me the reasons andstuff and so I was like, okay,
and I actually loaned my ladderstand to Alex this year and he
went up to about 12 feet.
He didn't put in one of thesections and I was like, oh yeah
(19:09):
, I guess that was an option,but where I was, it made more
sense to go up that high.
And, as you said, so when Ifirst started out that thing,
like I got up there, whiteknuckled to the, to the seat,
and so the platform was at 18feet and and so I'm sitting
about 20.
Yeah, probably about 20 feet iswhere the bottom of my seat was
.
I didn't want to move at all.
I like hitched into the safetyline and I mean it was.
(19:31):
I sat down and I'm trying toreach behind me.
I wouldn't just latch in andthen sit down where I could see
I was just fumbling around withit but not wanting to move Right
right Fumbling around with itbut not wanting to move, right
right, fumbling around with itand then like there was a
footrest where you kicked outthis bar, that acted like a
footrest.
I wouldn't kick that because Ididn't want to move.
(19:52):
Uh-huh, I was just so nervousand by the end it's yeah,
everything, it's just nothing.
Yeah.
It was.
You just get more Now.
Granted, if I'd used it thislast year that was my first year
If I'd used it this last year,it would have taken me a while
to get used to it again, but itprobably would have gone quicker
, because it eliminates theelement of you know, is this
(20:15):
thing going to collapse on me?
Well, I used it all year and itdidn't.
I mean you, and I went up in itand sat in it cause it was a
double seat one and did justfine, yeah, so that's just it.
It's fine, whether it's a Iwould say tree stand or anything
like that, it's just thatpractice.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, log some hours in on it
and and it don't take any timeat all.
You know, I remember when Ifirst started, uh, baiting for
bear and this was a coupledecades ago and, uh, my cousin
and I were doing it together andand we went and got our first
tree stands together oh, okay,and uh and so, uh, we both got
(20:56):
tree stands and everything and Iremember we were, I put mine up
and I was probably about 12, 15feet, uh-huh, maybe 12, more
closer to 12, I guess and uh, wewent to do my cousins after
that, and so I'm not a big guy,you know, and my, my cousin, he
he's probably two of me, okay,and he's not fat, he's just no
(21:18):
he's very solid, you know he's alinebacker.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and, and sowe're putting his stand up, and
and this is back when you had touse the screw in steps oh, the
trees and so I got all the stepsin there and whatnot, and we're
putting his stand up and he'stelling me where to put it and
how high to go and all thisstuff.
(21:39):
And then so I get done and heclimbs up into it and he's kind
of very cautious and everythingwe both had harnesses on I'm on
the ground and everything.
And I'm like are you sure youdon't want that higher?
He goes.
Are you kidding me?
He goes.
I'm way up here, he goes.
You look like an ant to me, youknow this is back when.
A Bug's Life came out and and hestarted quoting the caterpillar
, he says man, you guys looklike little ants down there.
(22:01):
And I just started laughing.
I walked over and I reached upand I grabbed the deck, the
platform of the tree stand fromthe ground and everything, but
he killed a 300-pounder bearfrom that stand four or five
days later.
Yeah.
So again, it's not about howhigh it's getting out of that
(22:22):
that wind stream, yes, but atthe same time you're not in that
that line of vision either youknow, they have a little bit of
a ceiling because there's justnot a lot of people that tree
stand hunt around here soanimals don't go through the
woods looking up yeah, yeah, butit's just it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
it's that practice, oh, absolutely, and I know even
for, because there's an aspectof for mindset, for overcoming
the physical and the mental Well, when you're up shooting down
at an angle.
That's why they suggest andyou've suggested this that if
(23:01):
tree stand is new to you, set itup someplace where you can
actually shoot your bow at itand I know you had asha out in
the backyard practicing fromthat tree stand.
You put up in a tree in yourbackyard with a, a target yeah
but it was.
But yeah, it's a different shotyeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
you want to aim for the bottom third.
Uh, just because they, with theway the arrow comes out of the
riser and everything, you'regoing to hit center mass or just
above it.
If you're aiming for the bottomthird and yeah, I did that for
Osh and I tell everybody at theseminars my wife prefers to hunt
out of ground blinds Well, wewere going to Kansas and I knew
(23:39):
that she would be hunting out ofa tree stand while we were down
there.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Might not be an option, yeah, yeah.
So now the physical challenges.
You know it might be where youcan't do a bow because you can't
drop back, or you know there's,there's some physical, there's
a certain point where you can'tdo the 15 miles of walking, or
five miles or a mile, and eventhinking of, like Bud's dad, he
goes in and he can walk in acertain distance, but there's no
(24:14):
climbing tree stands, there'sno, there's just physically
limited on what you're capableof doing.
There's just physically limitedon what you're capable of doing
and I know there's ways, likeyou, and currently DJ is
prepping because he's doing alot of that backcountry stuff
and getting into that and he'shiking around with a weighted
(24:40):
pack, putting 50 pounds in apack and walking up and down the
hill to the house.
But to like to get ready forthe physical aspect of just the
whole hunt.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
You know, and boy, that's a great question, and I
wish people on TV would coverthis more often.
You know, I've said it amillion times to younger guys at
seminars and whatnot.
In that they'll come up andthey'll be like, yeah, I do this
, this is, and I just look at it, well, I was young once too.
Yeah, and that's something thatwe're all gonna have in common.
(25:09):
It seems like just yesterday Iwas 18 or in my 20s, you know,
and I was hiking, you know, witha pack on full pack, and we
were going in, uh, up aroundpackwood and all that and and
doing hills and and turkey,hunting the gorge and all that
and, and then overnight I became55, you know, and I got lyme's
(25:31):
disease and I got scar tissue inmy hips and everything.
And then, like you were saying,the other night, we, we spoke at
uh, hunter's Hunt Club, rather,and the first thing, one of the
guys comes over and heintroduces himself to us and
everything.
But one of the statements thathe made to me right up front
(25:53):
really stood out and he saysyeah, this club's getting old,
we're all aging out.
We lost some guys last coupleyears ago with COVID and
everything like that, and Ithink that the way life is is
that you don't recognize thatyou're aging until it starts
(26:13):
happening in increments.
Because what I mean is this isthat when you're a kid, you
can't wait to get out of highschool, and it seems like it
takes forever to do that, youknow.
And then you get out of highschool or college or whatever,
and you're finally on your ownand it's like everything seems
great, right, or you get married.
(26:34):
Yeah.
And then, all of a sudden, youwake up one morning and 10 years
has gone by.
You've been graduated for 10years.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And you're like, wow, where did that time go, right?
And then so you're in your 30s,now and everything.
And then the next big milemarker for me was about 38.
And it was like, my goodness,well, you know, it just seems
like yesterday In my mind.
I'm still 18.
Yeah.
You know, and now you know, andnow you know.
(27:05):
Then after that it was 45 andit was like holy cats, I'm 45,
I'm the old guy.
Now you know 50 it's like ohyeah, and now I'm 55 and in my
mind I'm still thinking I canremember being 18.
It just seems like it was aweek ago, you know yeah and it's
gone, and and that's when Istarted realizing your body is
only gonna give you so manyhunts.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And then it's gonna say I'm done and and at a
certain point it's going to makethose hunts a little more
difficult, where you have toadapt right.
And I've contemplated like it'dbe neat to go elk hunting, but
I don't know if I got to walkmiles and miles back in and it's
hiking, hiking one out, youknow where it's a few trips of
(27:47):
three miles in and you got tohike some of it out and then go
back and get the rest of it andhike it.
Yeah, I mean I could do that,but it's going to be like 24
hours of straight hiking.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You're going to be so sore the next day You're not
going to get out of bed.
There's no amount of ibuprofenthat's going to cure that and I
sort of think, going back tothat, it was just okay.
When I was young, I wasinvincible, and because I
thought that way, I made themistake of not staying on top of
(28:20):
my health in the sense thatworking out and staying in shape
.
Cameron.
Haynes works out year-round, anda lot of these guys that hunt
well into their 60s and 70s workout year-around From the time
that they're young.
They start working outyear-round and when I say young,
(28:43):
I mean in their 20s and 30s Notto be Mr Olympia or the Atlas
statue or whatever.
They're doing it to stay inshape, to keep their body safe
from injury.
And that is the key, becausewhen you start hiking and
carrying all this stuff on yourback, you're breaking down your
joints, shoulders, your knees,your, your back, your lower back
(29:03):
, your neck.
It all adds up, you know, andall of the all of the careless
thinking that we did youngerends up coming back to haunt us
later on.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, you know, playing sports hurt and that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
yeah, but it's a lot of.
It's just prepping ahead oftime and and and doing something
year-round physical, yeah,activity.
I remember the personal trainerthat I had, your uh, motion is
lotion, you know, keep movingthose joints, keep moving your
body, because that's going tokeep that movement's going to
(29:39):
keep everything right loosenedup.
And I've noticed that, like Ilike to go swimming and I
noticed my shoulders will reallystart tightening up and the
best cure for that is to goswimming for a month, a couple
times a week and just startusing all those joints, all
those muscles and that movementand I'm fine, yeah, but I
(30:01):
noticed like I've got kind of abalky knee and so one of the
things it just is.
And so there are times if,especially when I'm going into a
new area, I'll bring a hikingpole with me for just that extra
stability.
you know cause having that, yougot to lift one leg up to step
over a log or something likethat right and you know, and I'm
(30:25):
looking for more areas like Idon't want to go down a real
steep muddy slope to get to myspot, and that's what I'm saying
.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
There's a recognition of limitations yeah, you know
what I mean and I think so.
I love archery yeah but I thinkat one point in my hunting
career I will become more of anopportunist than I will an
archery hunter, in the sensethat if I develop bursitis in
the shoulder or some kind ofarthritis or whatnot, that keeps
me from, or I feel it coming onit may be better that I switch
(30:56):
to a different weapon that isn'tas physically demanding lower
my poundage down instead ofbeing, oh, I can pull 70, some
pounds.
You know, and I could when I was.
I mean, I worked in an archeryshop and I was yarding bows back
all day long, you know, andit's like building those
shoulder and the back muscles upand pulling 70.
I was drawn 80 pounds on someof the bows at the shop.
(31:21):
But you know, you look, you kindof lose that alpha male
machismo push through the painright after a while and you
realize okay, let's not bestupid, let's just be smart,
because I want to keep doingthis, because I want to keep
doing this, and that's themotivating factor, with both the
physical and the mental, isokay, I want to keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So what's the best way to approach this?
And even thinking about likegear.
So I have a regular pair ofhiking boots and I really like
you know, I need to go get somenew ones, but my lacrosse-style
boots get better traction butthey don't really have the
angles, but it's like I of want,would rather have the traction
(32:03):
when I'm walking out there,right, so I end up wearing those
out when I'm kind of walkingaround, but they're not as, like
, my feet hurt more.
So there's almost thattrade-off like which?
Which way do I want to go withwith this?
But thinking through like gear,like I said, you know, having
that extra battery pack before Igo out, having you know when
(32:24):
I'm going out and checking out anew area, you know, and I carry
a pistol with me what kind offootwear am I wearing?
What kind of clothing am Iwearing?
Do I have?
If something were to happen andI got stuck out in the woods,
because you know, you slip, youfall and you might be laying out
in the woods for several, okay,do I have an emergency blanket?
You know, can I?
(32:44):
Am I going to be able tosurvive a night right right out
in the?
You know just if I'm going outand checking my cameras on it,
walking on a trail that I'vewalked 30, 40, 50 times already,
you know.
But something happened.
I wasn't paying attention, likemy first year, the last night
coming in uh, the last night asI was leaving, last night I was
(33:05):
hunting I decided, well, I'mjust going to haul all this
stuff out with me and I evenwent and got my trail camera.
So I'm loaded down with stuff,and I stepped over the first log
that I'd stepped over a dozen,50 times already, and I forgot
about the second one, becauseall this stuff is like hanging
from me, just face planted rightinto the ground, and I think I
(33:26):
face plant at least once ortwice a year.
It's just par for the course.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
But and that's a real .
That's a real thing because atour age I was you start losing
yours and it's funny because Iwas an athlete, you know, and I
mean I played sports in college,you know, it was just very much
an athlete and have alwaysconsidered myself that and yeah,
now my sense of balance, theonly kid, it starts going and
(33:53):
it's kind of humbling, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, but it's a reality and you have to face
that yeah, I've, I've actuallystarted and I need to actually
get back to doing it again, butI've tried doing some different
types of yoga and it actuallyhelps, not just like with the
strength and everything butbalance and all of that.
So that's just one of those likeI never thought I'd try yoga,
(34:18):
but it's going to help my.
It helps my hunts because ithelps keep me safer.
But it was funny when I youknow it's dark I've got gear all
over me and I face plant intothe ground and I remember the
last couple of times I'veslipped and fallen.
It's just you lay there for aminute and you don't want to
move because you don't want tofind out that you really did
(34:39):
hurt yourself.
Yeah.
And then you slowly move yourbody.
Okay, nothing, no sharp pain.
Okay, I didn't break anything,we're good, I can stand up.
And because no cell coverage,I'm gonna have to drag myself
100, 150 yards to this, to theroad, and hope I can get out of
(34:59):
there otherwise.
So yeah, it's just one of those.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
As you get older, your thought process changes,
your way of thinking changesbecause you start recognizing
your mortality, I guess is a wayto say it.
You're not invincible.
Everybody was young once and weall age and that's going to
happen to everyone.
But if you want to keep doingthis, you know you gotta, you
(35:24):
gotta start taking care ofyourself when you're young so
that you can do it longer whenyou're old.
You know, I, I tell guys, uh,my son and my daughter, you know
, uh, they're, they're kind ofthey're at the age where they're
, they're starting their careersand they're, and they're,
they're getting going andwhatnot.
And we talk about financespretty openly and we always have
with our kids and stuff.
(35:44):
And who is the financial guy?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Dave Ramsey.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Dave Ramsey has that saying, that quote that says if
you want to live like no oneelse, you need to live like no
one else now.
Yeah.
And the point being that he'smaking there is that if you want
to be able to retire early andlive, you know, like you know
Comfortably, Comfortably youknow, like your friends are
(36:08):
working until they're 70 toretire, or something like that,
and you're retiring at 58.
You've got to be able to makeyourself live in the present,
like you're not like anyone else, like your friends are out
spending money, you're saving it, you're paying, you're being
responsible, you're paying bills, you're paying the mortgage,
double payments on the mortgage,so that you can live like
nobody else later yeah you know,and it's like that, when, when
(36:33):
you start thinking about huntingand if you want to keep doing
this and live like nobody elselater, that's your age I mean
you have to take care ofyourself now, yeah yeah you got
to live like nobody else.
Now you got to be doing theexercise when everybody else is
out eating the junk food and allthat stuff.
Yeah, because it comes back tohaunt you.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, it really does and I know, probably a silver
lining.
I mean I would prefer that wewe were still able to bait, but
the silver lining is that wedon't have to go in every couple
of days and farmer carry 40pounds worth of apples a half
mile up and down over.
You know, up and down differentterrain and everything like
(37:12):
that, but it was funny.
So by the end of season, likewhen I first started, you know
it's a bit more of a workout,but by the end of season it was
like pop in, pop out, go do myother set another half mile in
what can and it's I'm in decentshape.
Yeah, it's like okay, this itgets easier yeah that's just the
thing is.
It just gets easier the moreyou do it it's that right you
(37:36):
know that continual movement.
So last thing, and this isprobably, uh, the mental
challenge of the and for somepeople it's not much of a
challenge, but some it might beis the isolation, like some guys
wouldn't consider.
I don't think going huntingalone and sitting in a tray
(37:56):
stand or a ground blind, or evenif spot and stock or uh
glassing clear cuts or you knowwhatever type of hunting you're
doing, but just to go do thatalone and being able to sit
there by yourself all day.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I do too.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean, I seriously love that.
I remember a few about 10, 15years back.
I was working for anothercompany and, uh, I was in a
position where I would take thewhole month of september off and
we would hunt over in easternoregon uh, me and and a bunch of
guys, a bunch of buddies andwhatnot, and and we'd all go
(38:37):
over for the opening weekend forelk and they would come back
after that weekend.
They would pack up sunday andhead home and I stayed over
there the whole time, the wholemonth by myself.
Uh, well, I say not the wholemonth.
They, they would come back, youknow, the last week and a half,
two weeks of season yeah whichis the end of september, but I
(38:57):
would stay over there for weeksby myself and uh, yeah, I just I
didn't.
That kind of stuff neverbothered me.
You know, I like being alonewith my thoughts, I recharge, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
You know, for me that's the way it is, but I get
it.
Some people don't like beingalone, they don't like the
solitude, they don't lookforward to the quiet or anything
like that.
They want the life to be busy.
And I get that.
We're all wired a littledifferent and there's nothing
wrong with that, but I mean yougotta find a way to occupy your
(39:30):
mind.
Even if you're by yourself, youstill have to find a way to
occupy your mind and you have tobe comfortable with being with
you, with you and like anextreme version so we were
talking about.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So this last season I went out early and I was in
stand just right before six,maybe five, 10 minutes before
six, and it wasn't light outtill about 7.30.
Well.
I couldn't turn on my phone tostart playing games or anything
like that, so I had to sit inthe dark not doing anything for
(40:04):
an hour and a half Just pitchblack.
If I held my hand in front ofmy face couldn't see it.
It was just pitch black and Icouldn't do anything.
I just had to sit there and donothing, and for some people
that's got to be torture.
Oh, yeah, but for me well, thisis part of it.
It's that.
(40:26):
It's part of what I'm doingthis hunt.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of soulsearching that goes on.
You find out who you really are.
And I tell my wife all the timeI wouldn't be a good pioneer,
because those are real men.
You know what I mean.
Uh-huh, all that.
I wouldn't be a good pioneerBecause those were real men, you
know what I mean.
I mean I like creature comforts, I like coming home and taking
a shower every day.
I don't have to come home everyday, I can stay out.
(40:51):
You know I would stay.
Like I said, I took the monthoff and stayed over there and
showered about every four orfive days and you know, go into
town and do laundry and whatnot.
But you're talking pioneers,those guys I mean.
You get a rash, they just livewith it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
mean it's not like they're running down to the
pharmacy or 7-Eleven or anythinglike that.
I mean they were real men, butwe're all softer now and I don't
mean that in a negative way.
That's just the reality of ourculture.
We really are and that's allright.
That's all right.
And if you find yourself thatyou can't handle the solitude, a
(41:27):
little bit of advice drive ondown to Walmart, go into the
sporting section, buy yourself aWilson volleyball put a
handprint on it and set it nextto you in the stand.
Talk to it when you want.
Don't let anyone see youtalking to it.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
You don't even have to talk out loud because Wilson
he's mental telepathy.
That's right, he knows and hecan respond.
Yeah.
Yeah, but just keep you crazyin the woods.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
And with that I think we're done.
So we'll talk to you next week.
Bye-bye.
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