September 1, 2025 • 35 mins
The silent language of the forest speaks volumes to those who understand it. Join Aaron and Dave as they decode the secret messages left behind by blacktail deer and reveal how these subtle signs can transform your hunting strategy.
The hosts dive deep into track identification, explaining how to distinguish between doe and buck prints based on subtle differences in shape and size. A mature buck's track isn't just larger—it splays outward in ways that tell experienced hunters they're on the right path. The direction of these tracks offers crucial intelligence about deer movement patterns, helping you determine whether you've found morning or evening travel routes.
Game trails hold perhaps the most valuable information for serious hunters. The podcast reveals exactly what to look for when scouting bedding areas and how to identify the high-traffic trails that dominant bucks use regularly. The hosts share their strategy for finding natural bottlenecks where multiple trails converge—creating the perfect ambush location just 20-30 yards from thick cover.
Buck rubs tell a more complex story than many hunters realize. The podcast distinguishes between traditional rub lines and "dominance rubs" found in clearcuts, explaining why the latter often indicate nighttime rather than daytime activity. Dave shares his expertise on how to determine a buck's antler configuration based on rub characteristics, noting how eye guards leave distinctive gouges that penetrate deeper into the tree.
This episode cuts through the confusion and overthinking that often plagues deer hunters. By understanding that deer prioritize survival first, breeding second, and feeding third, you can develop a more effective hunting strategy. Whether you're a beginner or experienced hunter, these insights will help you read the woods more effectively and increase your chances of tagging that elusive dominant buck.
Ready to become fluent in the language of deer sign? Listen now and transform your understanding of what the forest is telling you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week's topic what do thesigns say when you're out
scouting?
We want to talk about whatyou're going to see as far as
everything that we considersigns of bucks or deer activity.
This is what we're looking for,but there are some differences
in each of these that we'll talkabout.
(00:21):
How to read the signs and howto read them.
Yeah, to know about, mostlyabout is the dominant buck there
?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Right.
What is the sign telling you?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, so we're going to start off with let's actually
start off with talking abouttracks Now.
Size difference in tracks,right?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, and the type of track A doe track will always
the hooves will always come to apoint Okay.
Type of track a doe, a doetrack will always the hooves
will always come to a point.
okay, okay, and and a buck trackthe front hooves will always
splay okay, and then a reallygood buck will will have the
dewclaws and but a real heavydoe will also have the dewclaws.
But typically speaking, if it'sa big, mature buck and you're
(01:02):
seeing the track, that track, ifit's a mature buck, say five
years old and up, you're lookingat about an eight inch track,
oh, in length.
Yeah, it's, it's not a smalltrack.
I mean you're somewhere betweenseven and eight inches.
Typically is what I've comeacross in in in the bucks that
I've harvested, you know, withtheir tracks and everything like
(01:24):
that.
So if you're seeing buck tracksand they're not from the tip of
the hoof to the dewclaws, if itisn't over six, it's probably
just a little three or a forkedhorn or something like that.
But that you know, and that'skind of a general thought.
That's not like across theboard.
(01:46):
That's the way it is every time, regardless.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, you know, because genetics have a play in
all of it.
Genetics have a play in it.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Habitat has a play in it.
How much feed is there?
The amount of rain that happensin that year determines.
You know a lot about the healthof a deer, the body weight, all
of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, okay.
Anything to garner from thedirection that they're walking
yes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So, using my system, I'm looking for a bedding area
and when I locate that beddingarea, I want to find the most
heavily used game trail comingout of that bedding area.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And so when I look at that and I'm seeing that if the
majority of the tracks aregoing into that bedding area,
then chances are that's thetrail that that big, dominant
buck is using to go into thebedding area in the morning.
Okay.
If most of the tracks arecoming out, then that typically
(02:41):
means that that's where he'scoming out at night to go out
and feed or or do his cycle toto find a doe or whatnot okay
and that's how he's exiting thatbedding area now.
Sometimes they do both on thesame trail uh-huh and sometimes,
you know it, just the time ofyear would determine a lot of
what.
What's going on as far as theactivity on that trail, like the
(03:02):
summertime, obviously they'renot.
They're not in that thick stuffas much, especially when they
get antlers out past their ears.
Yeah.
They just don't want to be inthere.
They'll be in the more openstuff.
So you won't see near theamount of activity on that trail
.
Okay.
Versus once they shed thevelvet and they immediately go
back in there.
Then it's business as usual inthere.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So tracks heading in.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Typically mean that that's the morning.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's the morning.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That's the morning route that he uses to go to
bedding.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And tracks.
Heading out is the eveningroute Is the evening route.
Yep, Okay, so that and thatwould that could determine where
you set up, where you create aset.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Absolutely, if you're trying to catch him in the
evening.
So if I got my camera out andthis buck is coming at night,
but as I watch him throughputting out pheromones and
scents and all that stuff, andI'm watching this buck and I've
realized that, okay, he's aboutto daylight.
Well, when is he about todaylight?
Is he about to daylight?
Is he cycling closer towarddaylighting in the evening or is
(04:01):
he cycling closer towarddaylighting in the morning?
Okay, okay.
Okay.
So if I find that he's cyclingcloser to daylighting in the
morning, well then I'm going toset up on that trail in the
morning.
If it's the evening, it's theevening.
Sometimes you don't have theoption If you're on a state land
or a timber company land andit's adjacent to private
(04:23):
property and you've only got thetrail that he exits on, not the
trail that he enters in on.
Yeah.
So you've only got access to one.
Well, I typically don't worryabout that too much, because
once he starts cycling in thedaytime this illusion that I'm
creating he's eventually goingto cycle through the day because
he's trying to find the doesthat I'm giving him, so he'll
(04:47):
figure out.
Okay, they're not here at night, so he'll start cycling through
the daytime and then he'llcycle at first time about every
four or five hours apart.
Then eventually he will cycleto about.
I've had him cycle as less asevery 45 minutes.
They're coming through and I'vehad him cycle through every
hour and a half, two hours.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Okay, so I'm thinking about, while you're saying this
, I'm thinking about last year,this set I was hunting on my
Hilltop set that I had Nemo,that I would catch on camera two
or three times by the time Imoved my camera over before
extended modern, so I caught himheading in in the the in the
evening but during daylightRight, and I know that they they
(05:30):
had another kind of core areadown below where I was hunting
and up above was the was themain area.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that's what I was just going to say.
If you've caught him going intothat area in the evening, then
that that is not his primarybedding area.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, Interesting the thing is is I never caught him
coming out on that side.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, which means there's another trail that he
was using.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And that is over on the other side.
So I was on the edge of a swampat basically a pretty
good-sized pond.
It might have been a total of acouple acres long, but maybe 60
feet at the widest or 70 feet.
But they came out and this yearI had cameras over on the other
side and tons of activity.
I had lots of pictures overthere.
(06:12):
Okay, and that's kind of what Isaw.
But because I was doing moreafternoon evening hunts, I was
trying to catch him heading outfor the night.
So you went into talking aboutgame trails.
So let's talk about game trails.
So let's talk about game trails.
Which ones should I investigate?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
What I do, what I look for again, to go back to
the bedding area is I'm lookingfor a bedding area.
Yeah.
Okay, when you stop and thinkabout it, we want to make it
more difficult than it really is.
It isn't that difficult.
You just got to find thethickest, ugliest, nastiest
stuff out there, and that's thebedding area.
Yeah.
Guaranteed.
If there is a dominant buck inthe area, that's where he wants
(06:51):
to be.
It's almost unhuntable.
You can't walk through it, youcan't get close enough to him,
you can't see far enough inthere.
That's why he's in there.
So what I do from there?
Once I find that thick, thatthick, nasty, ugliest hole in
the woods, then I walk aroundthe edge of it and I'm just
looking for the game trail thathas the most activity.
(07:14):
That's what I'm looking for.
And when I find that game trailwith the most activity, then I
determine you know, okay, sohere's the trail coming out.
Where does it bottleneck?
Where do I have four or fivetrails coming together on that
trail?
That's my kill spot.
That's where I will kill thatbig buck.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And they always have game trails paralleling edges
Correct.
So if you're walking down askidder road and you're looking,
you know that there's going tobe a trail that's paralleling
that skidder road.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Right.
And which I know is true fromwhat I'm seeing, and the bedding
area will have an edge.
Yeah, okay, and so there willalways be a game trail
paralleling the edge of thatbedding area.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
But the one we're looking for is the one that's
got the high activity coming outof the bedding area.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Out of the bedding area, yeah.
And so if I'm paralleling theedge of that bedding area and I
found the game trail that'scoming out that has the most
activity, well, right there Ihave two trails coming together.
That's my first bottleneck.
Yeah.
Okay, well, that's where I wantto be.
Okay, essentially, that's fourtrails, because where they
intersect you've got a trailgoing in each direction.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Each direction.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So that's my kill spot.
I don't go into the beddingarea more than 20, 30 yards, At
the most 30.
I don't like going in.
He's got to feel safe.
Yeah.
Okay, and I'm not talking smallbucks, I'm talking big bucks.
They're big because they'resmart.
So if he doesn't feel safe,he's not going to stay there,
(08:43):
right, and I want to getmultiple hunts on this buck.
Yeah.
So, in order to do that, I haveto keep him in the area until
he makes a mistake, and I'mthere to capitalize on it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And so one of the things it was kind of
interesting because of aconversation I had with someone
today.
He was talking about how wehave a half an hour after
sundown and then it's legal tohunt half an hour after sundown,
and then it's legal to hunthalf an hour after sundown right
, you still have shooting lightbut we don't have shooting light
in our sets half an hour aftersundown we lose it a half hour
before we're losing it.
(09:16):
Yeah like sundown during myseason, the first part of my
season.
I was leaving, I was feelinglucky, I could push it to 6.30,
but it was almost seven o'clockby legal.
I could be in there, but 6.30,it was so dark that I couldn't
get out of there without aheadlamp.
And once I got out to theskidder road, oh, it was plenty.
(09:38):
I'd turn the headlamp off andwalk out, no problem, but yeah,
you just, there's a certainpoint, walk out, no problem, but
yeah you.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Just there's a certain point.
So that's what I like, that'swhat I look for, and the reason
is is because when your habitatis able to choke out the
sunlight like that, it's got tobe tight.
Yeah.
Okay, so that tight feeling iswhat those big dominant bucks
like, because tight equals cover, cover equals safety Right.
(10:06):
Yeah.
Okay, so that's what he likes.
So that's where I want to beand typically and you've heard
me say this, aaron, and and andyou know I've had several guys
come up and talk to me about itand stuff but they agree with me
and I know a lot of thelisteners who are going to hear
this are going to seek the samething.
(10:26):
Those bucks are daylighting inthere all the time.
Yeah.
They're.
They're no more nocturnal thana doe.
We see doe in the daytime, wesee doe at night, so it's the
same.
We're just looking in adifferent area, so he'll
daylight in there a lot easierthan he will out on the edge of
a clear cut.
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
So when they stage in there andwhatnot, two hours before dark,
(10:49):
you still have time to shoot.
You know plenty of light toshoot and everything like that.
And then there's always well,he came in just after dark, and
well, just after dark.
And where we're hunting, thathappens quite a bit and it's all
right, don't sweat it, becausethe easiest buck to kill is the
one that doesn't know he's beinghunted.
So if he comes in and you don'thave, just let him walk.
(11:11):
And it's hard, but let him walk, because so long as you don't
give away that you're there,he'll come right back.
Another day You'll get anotheropportunity.
And potentially earlier,especially if you're creating
the illusion and he's looking,if you're paying attention to
the five factors that we talkedabout, you're going to get an
opportunity at that buck.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, so you said no more 20 yards typically 20, 30
yards, 30 at the most, 30 at themost.
It's better, if you're going togo push that far in Now, you
can.
During season we cut in trailsso that we're not making a bunch
of racket as we're walking inCutting trails to our sets.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
To our sets.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, we're not creating whole new trails or
anything like that.
We're not cutting into thebedding area or anything like
that, but during we go out andwe scout around February, march
because all the leaves are downand that's when there's as much
light as possible is gettinginto where we're going in.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Stuff really stands out, yep yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Stuff stands out.
Stuff stands out.
Yep, yeah, stuff stands out.
Is it okay to push a littlefurther in then, or do we always
want to make it 30 yards max?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So I would say that if you're going to go all the
way into the bedding area, do itin February.
Yeah, okay Do it in February.
You know, guys, I want to shedhunt, or I just want to see
where that trail goes, or I wantto get in there and figure out
where they're hanging out.
Do that in february, march,okay, that buck will get out of
there.
I've seen him stay out as longas three months.
(12:37):
Eventually they do come backokay.
But again, going back to what Isaid earlier, he got big by
being smart.
He ain't dumb yeah you know.
And so if you do that justbefore hunting season, if you do
that during hunting season,chances are it's a one and done
hunt.
You're not going to get anotheropportunity at that big buck.
(12:59):
They're just too smart.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah.
So even in thinking about this,there are times where the buck
comes in or deer have come in.
Right, there's no more shootinglight, but you know that
there's a deer down there andyou get stuck in stand for quite
some time.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
if possible, I've sat until about 11.45 in stand on a
couple occasions my wifeworries and everything.
But fortunately with cellphones you can text your spouse
and let them know the situationand stuff and that happens.
I've got a few tricks to getout of stand now.
Through the years I've kind ofdeveloped that.
(13:38):
Guys that I've taken out andhelped and whatnot see me
walking along logging roads andpicking up pebbles and whatnot
for evening hunts.
And.
I'll go up with a pocket full ofpebbles and you know, of course
, the question is what's thatfor?
Well, that's what I use to getthe deer off the set after dark
(13:59):
so that I can get down and getout of there.
It's just simply.
You know tossing pebbles andyou know, especially with the
smaller bucks, you got to hitthem.
You almost just got to clubthem over the head.
It's just they're idiots they're.
That's why a majority of themget killed is because they're
just not.
Yeah, they're not.
How can I say survival savvy?
Yeah you know what I mean.
(14:21):
They know how to eat, sleep anddrink.
That's it.
Yeah, you know they haven'tdeveloped that sense, that that,
okay, the scent of man isdanger, and so it takes time.
But the big ones, the dominantbucks, yeah, there's no doubt
about it.
It's all about survival withthem.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Well, I know, even with refreshing scents and
heading out there, we'll havethe small bucks.
They'll just stand there,they'll walk off 10 yards and
watch us, yeah, and then they'llcome back I went out two days
ago well, maybe it's a littlebit long.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It was the last time we had a little bit of a
sprinkle and I was outrefreshing sense on my sets and
I walked into this one and Ikind of went through this little
bend in the terrain, comearound corner and here's this
buck standing at.
Probably he couldn't have beenmore than 10 yards, I'd be
(15:17):
surprised if he was 10.
But you know there's a littlespike and whatnot.
And he just sat there andstared at me and I mean, I'm in
street clothes, you know, I justgot off work, I've got my
Carhartts on and I'm justrunning out there to freshen up
sense and change the batteriesout on a camera.
And here he is, at 10 yards,plenty of daylight.
(15:37):
He saw me, knew exactly what.
I was, staring at me the wholetime I stood there for probably
three, four minutes before Ifinally just decided to walk off
.
And as I was walking off, hedidn't move.
He just sat there and watchedme.
Yeah.
And then, when he finallydecided to leave, he just turned
and walked the other way.
Yeah.
That's what we kind ofanticipate, with the small bucks
(15:58):
Doing the scents like we doevery year.
It's the same thing.
You get in an area.
You think, oh, this is a greatarea.
Turns out there's a lot of deerin there, because you're
looking for the right habitat.
You find it and the dumbestbuck out.
There will be that small spikeor forked horn and they will
(16:19):
just not leave.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Ever, yeah, yeah, because, well, it's a bedding
area that you've recreated withyour Conquest.
Ever Calm you know, so hey,I'll take a nap here.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, don't tell me that stuff doesn't work, because
they're not spooked at all.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
No, and even when they hear something coming
because I pushed one off my setyesterday and when I go out
tomorrow I'm sure I'm going tosee on camera that he came back
within an hour, but probablyless, knowing how they work and
stuff but the idea of being upup and we've talked about this
in other episodes you don't when, when you're up in the tree
(16:55):
stand, it's to get out of theirline of sight, right and so if
they spot you up there, it'sover, because they'll know
something's up there and thatevery time and you've said this
before I don't think on that onan episode, but if they know
you're up there because youclimbed out while they were down
there, they know to look upwhenever they come in.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Especially the does, especially the does.
Okay, the does will be thefirst ones to start blowing.
Blow air over that gland andthey do that little snort.
The does are big for that.
The small bucks, they're notsmart enough.
No.
They're not smart enough?
No, but the does.
If they see you up in thatstand or they watch you climb
down out of that stand or treesaddle, whatever.
(17:36):
You're using ground blind, ifyou haven't spooked them off
somehow, but they have theopportunity to watch you climb
down or crawl out of your blindor whatnot, every time they come
in.
Every time they come in, thefirst thing they're going to do
is get up and they're going tostare at that stand, they're
going to lock eyes on it andthey're going to stare and
(17:57):
they're looking for theslightest bit of movement.
Yeah.
So that's why it's important tospook the deer off, obviously
not letting them know thatyou're there, but find a way to
spook them off, to get them outof there, so you can climb down.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now I know and I actually mentioned this to
someone else today that thelarge bucks and bears will do
this too.
They'll snap a twig whenthey're coming in, or they'll
snap a branch.
All deer will do that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All deer will do that they don't want to startle each
other, so they do that.
To let the other one know hey,I each other.
So they do that.
Okay, to let the other one knowhey, I'm over here, I'm coming
in, kind of thing.
And bear will do the same thing.
In case there is another bearand that's usually kind of a
dead giveaway that there'smultiple bears coming in on a
bait, it's because they'll snapa branch, whether it be a twig
or a hefty branch.
They'll snap it to let whateveris on a bait know that they're
(18:49):
coming in yeah so, but deer dothe same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It's just a way of communicating and a bait from
like when you could legally bait, we're not talking about yeah,
we don't bait.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's all my baits that I run throughout the summer
so yeah, we're not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
We're not baiting bear, but back in in back in the
day.
Yeah, so that's one of thethings.
Is I, when I come in, I willsnap a branch and I'll try to do
a larger one so that hopefullyI'm hoping that it kind of wakes
them up, maybe kicks them off,so that it's not just me
barreling in right right, yeahyeah, so you know, I, I'm, I'm a
(19:30):
whistler, so I'll whistle on myway in uh-huh uh, and typically
they hear that long before Iget there.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And by the time I get there and I do the sense and I
get back to my rig, I can lookon my phone and say, oh, there
was a deer on that, on that set.
You know, before I got there Ibumped them off and then usually
they're right back on it by thetime I get back to my rig.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, and another thing I wanted to actually bring
up, because you mentionedtexting.
You know, if you get stuck outthere, a new thing that I just
discovered with it's an updateon the iPhone, and I don't know
if Android does any of this, butif you have an iPhone, they
have an update with iOS 18 whereyou can satellite text now.
(20:11):
Oh, yeah.
So if you're in a non-cell area,what it'll prompt you to do is
hold up your phone and turnaround so it'll pick up a
satellite and you can text fromthere Not pictures or anything
like that, but you can send outa message and you can receive
messages.
So if you have an iPhone, getthat upgrade if you're going out
(20:31):
someplace, just for safety'ssake too, that you have a way of
contacting, communicating withpeople.
So back to the topic.
So, Scott, if you're seeingbuck versus doe, what would the
difference look like?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Or even small buck and large buck.
Okay, so doe looks like jelly,so dough looks.
It looks like jelly beans,obviously not colored like jelly
beans, but the shape of jellybeans and and pellets.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Like rabbits yeah, yeah and and buck looks like a
bunch of junior mints meltedtogether okay and so now the
small buck the same as a largebuck, or is it just a smaller
version of that?
Exactly, okay, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
As far as yearlings go and stuff, I've heard guys
say that a buck, small yearlingor a toehead will have pellets,
but they'll be dented, they'llbe dimpled, oh, okay.
On one side and stuff.
And I don't know if that is trueor not, but I know what a
mature buck.
I'm not out to tag a yearlingmyself, but you know some guys
(21:33):
are.
You know my first deer.
I just took what was availableand that's fine, you got
something for the freezer thereyou go.
But I mean, if I'm trying tolocate a big buck, then yeah,
I'm looking for those juniormints knotted together.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So if we're seeing predator scat in the area, will
that as a sign for deer?
Will that tell us to leave thearea, because there's just like
if we were seeing bear scateverywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So typically deer don't want to be around bears.
Bear scat is kind of trickybecause it dries out and, for
lack of a better term, itdisappears quickly.
Okay.
It's just, it's not a scat.
That has a lot of moisture init, so it dries out and, for
lack of a better term, itdisappears quickly.
Okay, it's just, it's not ascat.
That has a lot of moisture init, so it dries out and gets
real crisp, flaky, whatever, andthen disappears quickly.
I'm more concerned about cougarand coyote myself.
(22:24):
Bear scat, typically in thespring when they're dropping
fawns and whatnot that's whenthe bears really start, because
they're coming out ofhibernation and right out of
hibernation they're hitting alot of grasses and and green
shoots off of plants and whatnot.
They're not on solids yeah forabout three, four weeks and then
they kind of make their way onthe solids.
(22:44):
But then in june, you know, thedeer start dropping fawns and
whatnot, and and fawns are bornwith no scent.
So that's one of the ways Godhas used to protect them.
But the afterbirth, all thatleaves a scent trail.
Yeah.
So you know, he's just waitingto find them.
And bears kill a lot of fawns.
Cougars kill a lot of fawns.
(23:06):
Cougars kill a lot of big bucksbecause big bucks are typically
solitary and it's easier for acat to get in on a solitary
animal than it is for a cat toget on three or four animals.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Bobcats go after deer a lot too, which is amazing to
believe because you think thesize difference and everything.
But I saw them in your yard onenight pulling in and I see a
couple of deer standing there.
It's dark out.
I was like, oh, there's acouple of deer and then a bobcat
goes tearing across thedriveway towards them.
(23:40):
Wasn't expecting that and Iactually one of my sets that I
was hunting.
I went in and I thought it wascoyote dropping and then I saw
somebody had posted pictures ofbobcat dropping and I think
that's what it was, because thecoyote typically will have a lot
(24:00):
more hair in it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yep, coyotes kill a lot more rabbits and smaller
game like that, and so, yeah, itwill always have a lot of hair,
not to mention that they'reconstantly grooming themselves.
Bobcat will have hair in it andwhatnot, but they like a lot of
rabbits.
But again, they like the deeras well.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, and I know I had a bobcat on that set.
At first I thought it was acoyote and then I looked at it a
little more closely andrealized as it stood up, it had
a nub tail.
It was just sitting on my setwith its back to the camera.
So last thing I wanted to getinto with this is rubs.
So everybody's looking for rubsand a lot of guys they start
(24:39):
getting worried.
I didn't see any rubs and it'snot necessarily a given either
way, if you see them, if there'sa buck there or not.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
So rubs, I don't want to say,don't put a lot of weight in in
rubs.
You always want to hunt therubs, but rubs are not the end,
all for it, so to speak.
The buck I killed last yearlucky there was no rubs anywhere
around that set- yeah okay, therubs that I was finding in that
(25:08):
area were way off, in a areawhere it was all nighttime
activity.
There wasn't a single rub.
But the evening that I shotLucky, he was chasing does and
that was the first day of lateseason late archery last year,
so it was around Thanksgiving.
(25:29):
Thanksgiving weekend tree lastyear, so it was around
thanksgiving thanksgivingweekend and I could hear him in
the slack.
We were on the edge of a swampand a green belt and I could
hear him in the sowlow runningthrough the bushes chasing the
does and stuff long I mean hoursbefore he came in.
But I mean we, I never saw asingle rub, and I'm not
necessarily saying that that youneed rubs because you don't.
(25:50):
What you need is does.
Yeah.
You know you need the beddingarea located and you need the
does so rubs tell you a lotabout an area, as far as whether
it's a daytime use or anighttime use.
You know, and guys were likewell, I see all these rubs out
in the clear cuts and I'm likewell, I see all these rubs out
in the clear cuts.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And I'm like, yeah, I wanted to actually bring that
up because one of my sets yousaw a lot of rubs.
We were both spotting them outin a clear cut, real small
jackfur.
Uh-huh.
You know four to eight footjackfur, right, it was real open
, but there were rubs everywhereand you said those were
(26:30):
dominance rubs.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, what it is is.
You have what we call a rubline.
So a rub line is typicallythere's multiple bucks creating
a rub line.
Everybody here in the Northwesthas walked down a skidder road
that has a bunch of viney mapleson it and you've seen just rub
after rub after rub in there.
That's a rub line.
And you've seen just rub afterrub after rub in there.
That's a rub line.
Yeah, when you're seeing rubsout in a clear cut, those are
(26:54):
usually a display of dominance.
Okay, Kind of rub, it's adominance rub.
And what I mean by that is thisis that when they're out there
at night because the does areout in the clear cuts at night
feeding, so the bucks go out tothe clear cuts at night, to what
To find the does.
Yeah.
(27:16):
Right.
So if there's multiple does,then there's probably multiple
bucks, and the bucks during thattime of year are not friends.
So if this buck is trailingthis doe and all of a sudden he
looks over and there's anotherbuck 40, 50 yards away, he
starts doing this display ofdominance to let that buck hey,
I'm over here, you stay yourdistance.
So he'll start a rub and he'lljust thrash a little tree, right
?
Well then that other buck willreciprocate that display of
(27:38):
dominance with another one ofhis own.
So now we have two rubs in anarea where, like man, there's
all these rubs here.
I need to be on this cut allthe time because there's
obviously a bunch of bucksrunning in here and the reality
is it's like no, it's out in theopen.
Chances are it's done at night.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, so it's a good sign, because it tells you that
there's bucks in the area.
But it's not telling you tohunt right there, right, it's
telling you go find the beddingarea somewhere around there, the
50 acres that is the typicalrange of a blacktail.
Go find that bedding area andstart working those edges.
(28:16):
Right right and figure it out,okay.
So then just real quick.
So you see these bucks, andthis is just curiosity for my
point when you see a buck rub,how do you know that it's got
eye guards?
What's the difference between?
Because I know people have said, oh yeah, that buck has really
nice eye guards.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Because of the way that the rub looks.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right.
So first thing I would say isyou have to be able to
distinguish between a buck ruband an elk rub a bull rub.
So a bull rub is really easy tofigure out because typically
the height of it will be quite abit higher than a buck rub.
Number one.
Number two bulls tend to takeoff most, if not all, of the
(28:57):
bark on the area that they'rerubbing.
Yeah.
Okay, bucks will leave strandsof bark hanging on the tree from
when they where they rub, justbecause they, they don't have uh
, the strength to just uh youknow, shred it all off yeah,
yeah, a bull will de-limb a youknow a little tree in no time
and a buck will.
(29:17):
He may get one or two branchesoff, but then he's gonna have a
bunch of bark hanging on itstill and it just looks like,
you know, the bark looks like abunch of like a big brillo pad
or something hanging uh you know, just all these bark flakes on
it and stuff.
But when they have eye guards,what they do is because the eye
guard is is the part that is onthe tree the most it will wear
(29:40):
through that outer layer, notjust the bark but the layer
underneath the bark, and it willdig into the core of the tree.
It'll get into that core areaof the tree.
So it'll look and it's reallyobvious when you see one you
know it'll look like he reacheda second layer inside of that
(30:00):
tree.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Kind of gouging it Correct as opposed to just yeah
and it'll look like hair.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Okay, all the little wood shavings will look like
hair hanging there.
Okay, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So the way it ends up shredding it.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Okay, last thing Can you identify the size of a buck
by the rub to an extent.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, I mean, is there a way to?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
do bigger bucks rub differently Bigger trees, bigger
trees, okay, typically yes.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Typically, yes, yeah.
Bigger trees, okay.
Typically, yes, typically, yes,yeah, but I've been on rub
lines and I've watched bucks onrub lines.
Sometimes the dominant buckwill let all the little bucks do
the work, because the doe comesthrough that rub line trying to
.
You know, you know it's it'ssurvival of the species, right?
So she wants to get bred.
I can't remember the article Iread about this, but they said
that 70% of the does get bred inthat first estrous cycle and
(30:53):
that they want to be bred by thetop two bucks the dominant one
and the one underneath them.
Yeah.
And that's just for thepreservation of the species.
The strong survive kind ofthing, you know, the strong
survive kind of thing, and andbut I so does, we'll go through
rub lines and they'll leavetheir scent there, because the
bucks will go through the rublines every day checking for the
(31:14):
scent of the dough, and so I'veseen the bigger bucks not do
hardly any rubs on a rub line.
Let all the little bucks do it.
And then when the dough comesthrough and leaves her scent, he
just kind of walks in there,smells her and then tracks her
down.
Yeah.
So I don't know if that's justhim saying I'm done.
You know, you guys do all this.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's like she's going to be mine.
I don't need to do any morework.
You just go ahead and take careof that.
Maybe in a few years you'll getlike, but right now, no.
Yeah.
Yeah, go practice.
Okay, any other thoughts onsigns that we might be wanting
to look for?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, I would just say this that don't make
anything.
It doesn't have to be difficult, so don't overthink it.
Yeah.
Okay, these animals areintelligent, they are smart, but
at the same time, if you startthinking like they do, as far as
survival is number one and thenbreeding is number two and then
eating is number three, if youthink of it in that order, you
(32:20):
can figure out these animalsrelatively easy.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
It's not that smart.
We tend to make it harder thanit needs to be.
Yeah, I think a lot fromconversations I've had are guys
making the perfect enemy of thegood Right.
So you know there's a lot ofreally good signs but you give
up because you didn't see thatrub line or you didn't see this
or you didn't see that.
Right.
So you walk away from an areathat you shouldn't have walked
away from, because making theperfect enemy of the good.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, and we overthink it, but at the same
time, I get it because there's alot.
You're hearing multiple thingsfrom a lot of people.
Yeah.
So if you want to be successful, I will say this If you want to
be a big buck killer, thenlearn from somebody who kills
big bucks.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Consistently.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Don't sit there and listen to the guy who kills
spikes and forker horns everyyear, unless that's what you're
happy with.
And if it is what you're happywith, that is absolutely,
totally fine.
Yeah.
I mean, it's your tag, you putit on the buck.
You want to put it on.
But, if you are in the processof your hunting career where
(33:25):
you're saying I want to step itup, I want to get bigger bucks,
I want to get more, then go tothe guy or the gal that is doing
that every year consistently.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
That's who you want to listen to.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Okay, well, with that , we're going to wrap up this
episode.
Thanks for listening to us thisweek and if you haven't already
, check out our Patreon.
We started that and we willtalk to you again next week.
Hello and welcome back to the Blacktail Coach
Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week's topic what do thesigns say when you're out
scouting?
We want to talk about whatyou're going to see as far as
everything that we considersigns of bucks or deer activity.
This is what we're looking for,but there are some differences
in each of these that we'll talkabout.
(00:21):
How to read the signs and howto read them.
Yeah, to know about, mostlyabout is the dominant buck there
?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Right.
What is the sign telling you?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, so we're going to start off with let's actually
start off with talking abouttracks Now.
Size difference in tracks,right?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, and the type of track A doe track will always
the hooves will always come to apoint Okay.
Type of track a doe, a doetrack will always the hooves
will always come to a point.
okay, okay, and and a buck trackthe front hooves will always
splay okay, and then a reallygood buck will will have the
dewclaws and but a real heavydoe will also have the dewclaws.
But typically speaking, if it'sa big, mature buck and you're
(01:02):
seeing the track, that track, ifit's a mature buck, say five
years old and up, you're lookingat about an eight inch track,
oh, in length.
Yeah, it's, it's not a smalltrack.
I mean you're somewhere betweenseven and eight inches.
Typically is what I've comeacross in in in the bucks that
I've harvested, you know, withtheir tracks and everything like
(01:24):
that.
So if you're seeing buck tracksand they're not from the tip of
the hoof to the dewclaws, if itisn't over six, it's probably
just a little three or a forkedhorn or something like that.
But that you know, and that'skind of a general thought.
That's not like across theboard.
(01:46):
That's the way it is every time, regardless.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, you know, because genetics have a play in
all of it.
Genetics have a play in it.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Habitat has a play in it.
How much feed is there?
The amount of rain that happensin that year determines.
You know a lot about the healthof a deer, the body weight, all
of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, okay.
Anything to garner from thedirection that they're walking
yes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So, using my system, I'm looking for a bedding area
and when I locate that beddingarea, I want to find the most
heavily used game trail comingout of that bedding area.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And so when I look at that and I'm seeing that if the
majority of the tracks aregoing into that bedding area,
then chances are that's thetrail that that big, dominant
buck is using to go into thebedding area in the morning.
Okay.
If most of the tracks arecoming out, then that typically
(02:41):
means that that's where he'scoming out at night to go out
and feed or or do his cycle toto find a doe or whatnot okay
and that's how he's exiting thatbedding area now.
Sometimes they do both on thesame trail uh-huh and sometimes,
you know it, just the time ofyear would determine a lot of
what.
What's going on as far as theactivity on that trail, like the
(03:02):
summertime, obviously they'renot.
They're not in that thick stuffas much, especially when they
get antlers out past their ears.
Yeah.
They just don't want to be inthere.
They'll be in the more openstuff.
So you won't see near theamount of activity on that trail
.
Okay.
Versus once they shed thevelvet and they immediately go
back in there.
Then it's business as usual inthere.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So tracks heading in.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Typically mean that that's the morning.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's the morning.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That's the morning route that he uses to go to
bedding.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And tracks.
Heading out is the eveningroute Is the evening route.
Yep, Okay, so that and thatwould that could determine where
you set up, where you create aset.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Absolutely, if you're trying to catch him in the
evening.
So if I got my camera out andthis buck is coming at night,
but as I watch him throughputting out pheromones and
scents and all that stuff, andI'm watching this buck and I've
realized that, okay, he's aboutto daylight.
Well, when is he about todaylight?
Is he about to daylight?
Is he cycling closer towarddaylighting in the evening or is
(04:01):
he cycling closer towarddaylighting in the morning?
Okay, okay.
Okay.
So if I find that he's cyclingcloser to daylighting in the
morning, well then I'm going toset up on that trail in the
morning.
If it's the evening, it's theevening.
Sometimes you don't have theoption If you're on a state land
or a timber company land andit's adjacent to private
(04:23):
property and you've only got thetrail that he exits on, not the
trail that he enters in on.
Yeah.
So you've only got access to one.
Well, I typically don't worryabout that too much, because
once he starts cycling in thedaytime this illusion that I'm
creating he's eventually goingto cycle through the day because
he's trying to find the doesthat I'm giving him, so he'll
(04:47):
figure out.
Okay, they're not here at night, so he'll start cycling through
the daytime and then he'llcycle at first time about every
four or five hours apart.
Then eventually he will cycleto about.
I've had him cycle as less asevery 45 minutes.
They're coming through and I'vehad him cycle through every
hour and a half, two hours.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Okay, so I'm thinking about, while you're saying this
, I'm thinking about last year,this set I was hunting on my
Hilltop set that I had Nemo,that I would catch on camera two
or three times by the time Imoved my camera over before
extended modern, so I caught himheading in in the the in the
evening but during daylightRight, and I know that they they
(05:30):
had another kind of core areadown below where I was hunting
and up above was the was themain area.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that's what I was just going to say.
If you've caught him going intothat area in the evening, then
that that is not his primarybedding area.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, Interesting the thing is is I never caught him
coming out on that side.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, which means there's another trail that he
was using.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And that is over on the other side.
So I was on the edge of a swampat basically a pretty
good-sized pond.
It might have been a total of acouple acres long, but maybe 60
feet at the widest or 70 feet.
But they came out and this yearI had cameras over on the other
side and tons of activity.
I had lots of pictures overthere.
(06:12):
Okay, and that's kind of what Isaw.
But because I was doing moreafternoon evening hunts, I was
trying to catch him heading outfor the night.
So you went into talking aboutgame trails.
So let's talk about game trails.
So let's talk about game trails.
Which ones should I investigate?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
What I do, what I look for again, to go back to
the bedding area is I'm lookingfor a bedding area.
Yeah.
Okay, when you stop and thinkabout it, we want to make it
more difficult than it really is.
It isn't that difficult.
You just got to find thethickest, ugliest, nastiest
stuff out there, and that's thebedding area.
Yeah.
Guaranteed.
If there is a dominant buck inthe area, that's where he wants
(06:51):
to be.
It's almost unhuntable.
You can't walk through it, youcan't get close enough to him,
you can't see far enough inthere.
That's why he's in there.
So what I do from there?
Once I find that thick, thatthick, nasty, ugliest hole in
the woods, then I walk aroundthe edge of it and I'm just
looking for the game trail thathas the most activity.
(07:14):
That's what I'm looking for.
And when I find that game trailwith the most activity, then I
determine you know, okay, sohere's the trail coming out.
Where does it bottleneck?
Where do I have four or fivetrails coming together on that
trail?
That's my kill spot.
That's where I will kill thatbig buck.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And they always have game trails paralleling edges
Correct.
So if you're walking down askidder road and you're looking,
you know that there's going tobe a trail that's paralleling
that skidder road.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Right.
And which I know is true fromwhat I'm seeing, and the bedding
area will have an edge.
Yeah, okay, and so there willalways be a game trail
paralleling the edge of thatbedding area.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
But the one we're looking for is the one that's
got the high activity coming outof the bedding area.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Out of the bedding area, yeah.
And so if I'm paralleling theedge of that bedding area and I
found the game trail that'scoming out that has the most
activity, well, right there Ihave two trails coming together.
That's my first bottleneck.
Yeah.
Okay, well, that's where I wantto be.
Okay, essentially, that's fourtrails, because where they
intersect you've got a trailgoing in each direction.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Each direction.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So that's my kill spot.
I don't go into the beddingarea more than 20, 30 yards, At
the most 30.
I don't like going in.
He's got to feel safe.
Yeah.
Okay, and I'm not talking smallbucks, I'm talking big bucks.
They're big because they'resmart.
So if he doesn't feel safe,he's not going to stay there,
(08:43):
right, and I want to getmultiple hunts on this buck.
Yeah.
So, in order to do that, I haveto keep him in the area until
he makes a mistake, and I'mthere to capitalize on it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And so one of the things it was kind of
interesting because of aconversation I had with someone
today.
He was talking about how wehave a half an hour after
sundown and then it's legal tohunt half an hour after sundown,
and then it's legal to hunthalf an hour after sundown right
, you still have shooting lightbut we don't have shooting light
in our sets half an hour aftersundown we lose it a half hour
before we're losing it.
(09:16):
Yeah like sundown during myseason, the first part of my
season.
I was leaving, I was feelinglucky, I could push it to 6.30,
but it was almost seven o'clockby legal.
I could be in there, but 6.30,it was so dark that I couldn't
get out of there without aheadlamp.
And once I got out to theskidder road, oh, it was plenty.
(09:38):
I'd turn the headlamp off andwalk out, no problem, but yeah,
you just, there's a certainpoint, walk out, no problem, but
yeah you.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Just there's a certain point.
So that's what I like, that'swhat I look for, and the reason
is is because when your habitatis able to choke out the
sunlight like that, it's got tobe tight.
Yeah.
Okay, so that tight feeling iswhat those big dominant bucks
like, because tight equals cover, cover equals safety Right.
(10:06):
Yeah.
Okay, so that's what he likes.
So that's where I want to beand typically and you've heard
me say this, aaron, and and andyou know I've had several guys
come up and talk to me about itand stuff but they agree with me
and I know a lot of thelisteners who are going to hear
this are going to seek the samething.
(10:26):
Those bucks are daylighting inthere all the time.
Yeah.
They're.
They're no more nocturnal thana doe.
We see doe in the daytime, wesee doe at night, so it's the
same.
We're just looking in adifferent area, so he'll
daylight in there a lot easierthan he will out on the edge of
a clear cut.
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
So when they stage in there andwhatnot, two hours before dark,
(10:49):
you still have time to shoot.
You know plenty of light toshoot and everything like that.
And then there's always well,he came in just after dark, and
well, just after dark.
And where we're hunting, thathappens quite a bit and it's all
right, don't sweat it, becausethe easiest buck to kill is the
one that doesn't know he's beinghunted.
So if he comes in and you don'thave, just let him walk.
(11:11):
And it's hard, but let him walk, because so long as you don't
give away that you're there,he'll come right back.
Another day You'll get anotheropportunity.
And potentially earlier,especially if you're creating
the illusion and he's looking,if you're paying attention to
the five factors that we talkedabout, you're going to get an
opportunity at that buck.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, so you said no more 20 yards typically 20, 30
yards, 30 at the most, 30 at themost.
It's better, if you're going togo push that far in Now, you
can.
During season we cut in trailsso that we're not making a bunch
of racket as we're walking inCutting trails to our sets.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
To our sets.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, we're not creating whole new trails or
anything like that.
We're not cutting into thebedding area or anything like
that, but during we go out andwe scout around February, march
because all the leaves are downand that's when there's as much
light as possible is gettinginto where we're going in.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Stuff really stands out, yep yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Stuff stands out.
Stuff stands out.
Yep, yeah, stuff stands out.
Is it okay to push a littlefurther in then, or do we always
want to make it 30 yards max?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So I would say that if you're going to go all the
way into the bedding area, do itin February.
Yeah, okay Do it in February.
You know, guys, I want to shedhunt, or I just want to see
where that trail goes, or I wantto get in there and figure out
where they're hanging out.
Do that in february, march,okay, that buck will get out of
there.
I've seen him stay out as longas three months.
(12:37):
Eventually they do come backokay.
But again, going back to what Isaid earlier, he got big by
being smart.
He ain't dumb yeah you know.
And so if you do that justbefore hunting season, if you do
that during hunting season,chances are it's a one and done
hunt.
You're not going to get anotheropportunity at that big buck.
(12:59):
They're just too smart.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah.
So even in thinking about this,there are times where the buck
comes in or deer have come in.
Right, there's no more shootinglight, but you know that
there's a deer down there andyou get stuck in stand for quite
some time.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
if possible, I've sat until about 11.45 in stand on a
couple occasions my wifeworries and everything.
But fortunately with cellphones you can text your spouse
and let them know the situationand stuff and that happens.
I've got a few tricks to getout of stand now.
Through the years I've kind ofdeveloped that.
(13:38):
Guys that I've taken out andhelped and whatnot see me
walking along logging roads andpicking up pebbles and whatnot
for evening hunts.
And.
I'll go up with a pocket full ofpebbles and you know, of course
, the question is what's thatfor?
Well, that's what I use to getthe deer off the set after dark
(13:59):
so that I can get down and getout of there.
It's just simply.
You know tossing pebbles andyou know, especially with the
smaller bucks, you got to hitthem.
You almost just got to clubthem over the head.
It's just they're idiots they're.
That's why a majority of themget killed is because they're
just not.
Yeah, they're not.
How can I say survival savvy?
Yeah you know what I mean.
(14:21):
They know how to eat, sleep anddrink.
That's it.
Yeah, you know they haven'tdeveloped that sense, that that,
okay, the scent of man isdanger, and so it takes time.
But the big ones, the dominantbucks, yeah, there's no doubt
about it.
It's all about survival withthem.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Well, I know, even with refreshing scents and
heading out there, we'll havethe small bucks.
They'll just stand there,they'll walk off 10 yards and
watch us, yeah, and then they'llcome back I went out two days
ago well, maybe it's a littlebit long.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It was the last time we had a little bit of a
sprinkle and I was outrefreshing sense on my sets and
I walked into this one and Ikind of went through this little
bend in the terrain, comearound corner and here's this
buck standing at.
Probably he couldn't have beenmore than 10 yards, I'd be
(15:17):
surprised if he was 10.
But you know there's a littlespike and whatnot.
And he just sat there andstared at me and I mean, I'm in
street clothes, you know, I justgot off work, I've got my
Carhartts on and I'm justrunning out there to freshen up
sense and change the batteriesout on a camera.
And here he is, at 10 yards,plenty of daylight.
(15:37):
He saw me, knew exactly what.
I was, staring at me the wholetime I stood there for probably
three, four minutes before Ifinally just decided to walk off
.
And as I was walking off, hedidn't move.
He just sat there and watchedme.
Yeah.
And then, when he finallydecided to leave, he just turned
and walked the other way.
Yeah.
That's what we kind ofanticipate, with the small bucks
(15:58):
Doing the scents like we doevery year.
It's the same thing.
You get in an area.
You think, oh, this is a greatarea.
Turns out there's a lot of deerin there, because you're
looking for the right habitat.
You find it and the dumbestbuck out.
There will be that small spikeor forked horn and they will
(16:19):
just not leave.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Ever, yeah, yeah, because, well, it's a bedding
area that you've recreated withyour Conquest.
Ever Calm you know, so hey,I'll take a nap here.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, don't tell me that stuff doesn't work, because
they're not spooked at all.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
No, and even when they hear something coming
because I pushed one off my setyesterday and when I go out
tomorrow I'm sure I'm going tosee on camera that he came back
within an hour, but probablyless, knowing how they work and
stuff but the idea of being upup and we've talked about this
in other episodes you don't when, when you're up in the tree
(16:55):
stand, it's to get out of theirline of sight, right and so if
they spot you up there, it'sover, because they'll know
something's up there and thatevery time and you've said this
before I don't think on that onan episode, but if they know
you're up there because youclimbed out while they were down
there, they know to look upwhenever they come in.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Especially the does, especially the does.
Okay, the does will be thefirst ones to start blowing.
Blow air over that gland andthey do that little snort.
The does are big for that.
The small bucks, they're notsmart enough.
No.
They're not smart enough?
No, but the does.
If they see you up in thatstand or they watch you climb
down out of that stand or treesaddle, whatever.
(17:36):
You're using ground blind, ifyou haven't spooked them off
somehow, but they have theopportunity to watch you climb
down or crawl out of your blindor whatnot, every time they come
in.
Every time they come in, thefirst thing they're going to do
is get up and they're going tostare at that stand, they're
going to lock eyes on it andthey're going to stare and
(17:57):
they're looking for theslightest bit of movement.
Yeah.
So that's why it's important tospook the deer off, obviously
not letting them know thatyou're there, but find a way to
spook them off, to get them outof there, so you can climb down.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now I know and I actually mentioned this to
someone else today that thelarge bucks and bears will do
this too.
They'll snap a twig whenthey're coming in, or they'll
snap a branch.
All deer will do that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All deer will do that they don't want to startle each
other, so they do that.
To let the other one know hey,I each other.
So they do that.
Okay, to let the other one knowhey, I'm over here, I'm coming
in, kind of thing.
And bear will do the same thing.
In case there is another bearand that's usually kind of a
dead giveaway that there'smultiple bears coming in on a
bait, it's because they'll snapa branch, whether it be a twig
or a hefty branch.
They'll snap it to let whateveris on a bait know that they're
(18:49):
coming in yeah so, but deer dothe same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
It's just a way of communicating and a bait from
like when you could legally bait, we're not talking about yeah,
we don't bait.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's all my baits that I run throughout the summer
so yeah, we're not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
We're not baiting bear, but back in in back in the
day.
Yeah, so that's one of thethings.
Is I, when I come in, I willsnap a branch and I'll try to do
a larger one so that hopefullyI'm hoping that it kind of wakes
them up, maybe kicks them off,so that it's not just me
barreling in right right, yeahyeah, so you know, I, I'm, I'm a
(19:30):
whistler, so I'll whistle on myway in uh-huh uh, and typically
they hear that long before Iget there.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And by the time I get there and I do the sense and I
get back to my rig, I can lookon my phone and say, oh, there
was a deer on that, on that set.
You know, before I got there Ibumped them off and then usually
they're right back on it by thetime I get back to my rig.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, and another thing I wanted to actually bring
up, because you mentionedtexting.
You know, if you get stuck outthere, a new thing that I just
discovered with it's an updateon the iPhone, and I don't know
if Android does any of this, butif you have an iPhone, they
have an update with iOS 18 whereyou can satellite text now.
(20:11):
Oh, yeah.
So if you're in a non-cell area,what it'll prompt you to do is
hold up your phone and turnaround so it'll pick up a
satellite and you can text fromthere Not pictures or anything
like that, but you can send outa message and you can receive
messages.
So if you have an iPhone, getthat upgrade if you're going out
(20:31):
someplace, just for safety'ssake too, that you have a way of
contacting, communicating withpeople.
So back to the topic.
So, Scott, if you're seeingbuck versus doe, what would the
difference look like?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Or even small buck and large buck.
Okay, so doe looks like jelly,so dough looks.
It looks like jelly beans,obviously not colored like jelly
beans, but the shape of jellybeans and and pellets.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Like rabbits yeah, yeah and and buck looks like a
bunch of junior mints meltedtogether okay and so now the
small buck the same as a largebuck, or is it just a smaller
version of that?
Exactly, okay, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
As far as yearlings go and stuff, I've heard guys
say that a buck, small yearlingor a toehead will have pellets,
but they'll be dented, they'llbe dimpled, oh, okay.
On one side and stuff.
And I don't know if that is trueor not, but I know what a
mature buck.
I'm not out to tag a yearlingmyself, but you know some guys
(21:33):
are.
You know my first deer.
I just took what was availableand that's fine, you got
something for the freezer thereyou go.
But I mean, if I'm trying tolocate a big buck, then yeah,
I'm looking for those juniormints knotted together.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So if we're seeing predator scat in the area, will
that as a sign for deer?
Will that tell us to leave thearea, because there's just like
if we were seeing bear scateverywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So typically deer don't want to be around bears.
Bear scat is kind of trickybecause it dries out and, for
lack of a better term, itdisappears quickly.
Okay.
It's just, it's not a scat.
That has a lot of moisture init, so it dries out and, for
lack of a better term, itdisappears quickly.
Okay, it's just, it's not ascat.
That has a lot of moisture init, so it dries out and gets
real crisp, flaky, whatever, andthen disappears quickly.
I'm more concerned about cougarand coyote myself.
(22:24):
Bear scat, typically in thespring when they're dropping
fawns and whatnot that's whenthe bears really start, because
they're coming out ofhibernation and right out of
hibernation they're hitting alot of grasses and and green
shoots off of plants and whatnot.
They're not on solids yeah forabout three, four weeks and then
they kind of make their way onthe solids.
(22:44):
But then in june, you know, thedeer start dropping fawns and
whatnot, and and fawns are bornwith no scent.
So that's one of the ways Godhas used to protect them.
But the afterbirth, all thatleaves a scent trail.
Yeah.
So you know, he's just waitingto find them.
And bears kill a lot of fawns.
Cougars kill a lot of fawns.
(23:06):
Cougars kill a lot of big bucksbecause big bucks are typically
solitary and it's easier for acat to get in on a solitary
animal than it is for a cat toget on three or four animals.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Bobcats go after deer a lot too, which is amazing to
believe because you think thesize difference and everything.
But I saw them in your yard onenight pulling in and I see a
couple of deer standing there.
It's dark out.
I was like, oh, there's acouple of deer and then a bobcat
goes tearing across thedriveway towards them.
(23:40):
Wasn't expecting that and Iactually one of my sets that I
was hunting.
I went in and I thought it wascoyote dropping and then I saw
somebody had posted pictures ofbobcat dropping and I think
that's what it was, because thecoyote typically will have a lot
(24:00):
more hair in it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yep, coyotes kill a lot more rabbits and smaller
game like that, and so, yeah, itwill always have a lot of hair,
not to mention that they'reconstantly grooming themselves.
Bobcat will have hair in it andwhatnot, but they like a lot of
rabbits.
But again, they like the deeras well.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, and I know I had a bobcat on that set.
At first I thought it was acoyote and then I looked at it a
little more closely andrealized as it stood up, it had
a nub tail.
It was just sitting on my setwith its back to the camera.
So last thing I wanted to getinto with this is rubs.
So everybody's looking for rubsand a lot of guys they start
(24:39):
getting worried.
I didn't see any rubs and it'snot necessarily a given either
way, if you see them, if there'sa buck there or not.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
So rubs, I don't want to say,don't put a lot of weight in in
rubs.
You always want to hunt therubs, but rubs are not the end,
all for it, so to speak.
The buck I killed last yearlucky there was no rubs anywhere
around that set- yeah okay, therubs that I was finding in that
(25:08):
area were way off, in a areawhere it was all nighttime
activity.
There wasn't a single rub.
But the evening that I shotLucky, he was chasing does and
that was the first day of lateseason late archery last year,
so it was around Thanksgiving.
(25:29):
Thanksgiving weekend tree lastyear, so it was around
thanksgiving thanksgivingweekend and I could hear him in
the slack.
We were on the edge of a swampand a green belt and I could
hear him in the sowlow runningthrough the bushes chasing the
does and stuff long I mean hoursbefore he came in.
But I mean we, I never saw asingle rub, and I'm not
necessarily saying that that youneed rubs because you don't.
(25:50):
What you need is does.
Yeah.
You know you need the beddingarea located and you need the
does so rubs tell you a lotabout an area, as far as whether
it's a daytime use or anighttime use.
You know, and guys were likewell, I see all these rubs out
in the clear cuts and I'm likewell, I see all these rubs out
in the clear cuts.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And I'm like, yeah, I wanted to actually bring that
up because one of my sets yousaw a lot of rubs.
We were both spotting them outin a clear cut, real small
jackfur.
Uh-huh.
You know four to eight footjackfur, right, it was real open
, but there were rubs everywhereand you said those were
(26:30):
dominance rubs.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, what it is is.
You have what we call a rubline.
So a rub line is typicallythere's multiple bucks creating
a rub line.
Everybody here in the Northwesthas walked down a skidder road
that has a bunch of viney mapleson it and you've seen just rub
after rub after rub in there.
That's a rub line.
And you've seen just rub afterrub after rub in there.
That's a rub line.
Yeah, when you're seeing rubsout in a clear cut, those are
(26:54):
usually a display of dominance.
Okay, Kind of rub, it's adominance rub.
And what I mean by that is thisis that when they're out there
at night because the does areout in the clear cuts at night
feeding, so the bucks go out tothe clear cuts at night, to what
To find the does.
Yeah.
(27:16):
Right.
So if there's multiple does,then there's probably multiple
bucks, and the bucks during thattime of year are not friends.
So if this buck is trailingthis doe and all of a sudden he
looks over and there's anotherbuck 40, 50 yards away, he
starts doing this display ofdominance to let that buck hey,
I'm over here, you stay yourdistance.
So he'll start a rub and he'lljust thrash a little tree, right
?
Well then that other buck willreciprocate that display of
(27:38):
dominance with another one ofhis own.
So now we have two rubs in anarea where, like man, there's
all these rubs here.
I need to be on this cut allthe time because there's
obviously a bunch of bucksrunning in here and the reality
is it's like no, it's out in theopen.
Chances are it's done at night.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, so it's a good sign, because it tells you that
there's bucks in the area.
But it's not telling you tohunt right there, right, it's
telling you go find the beddingarea somewhere around there, the
50 acres that is the typicalrange of a blacktail.
Go find that bedding area andstart working those edges.
(28:16):
Right right and figure it out,okay.
So then just real quick.
So you see these bucks, andthis is just curiosity for my
point when you see a buck rub,how do you know that it's got
eye guards?
What's the difference between?
Because I know people have said, oh yeah, that buck has really
nice eye guards.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Because of the way that the rub looks.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right.
So first thing I would say isyou have to be able to
distinguish between a buck ruband an elk rub a bull rub.
So a bull rub is really easy tofigure out because typically
the height of it will be quite abit higher than a buck rub.
Number one.
Number two bulls tend to takeoff most, if not all, of the
(28:57):
bark on the area that they'rerubbing.
Yeah.
Okay, bucks will leave strandsof bark hanging on the tree from
when they where they rub, justbecause they, they don't have uh
, the strength to just uh youknow, shred it all off yeah,
yeah, a bull will de-limb a youknow a little tree in no time
and a buck will.
(29:17):
He may get one or two branchesoff, but then he's gonna have a
bunch of bark hanging on itstill and it just looks like,
you know, the bark looks like abunch of like a big brillo pad
or something hanging uh you know, just all these bark flakes on
it and stuff.
But when they have eye guards,what they do is because the eye
guard is is the part that is onthe tree the most it will wear
(29:40):
through that outer layer, notjust the bark but the layer
underneath the bark, and it willdig into the core of the tree.
It'll get into that core areaof the tree.
So it'll look and it's reallyobvious when you see one you
know it'll look like he reacheda second layer inside of that
(30:00):
tree.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Kind of gouging it Correct as opposed to just yeah
and it'll look like hair.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Okay, all the little wood shavings will look like
hair hanging there.
Okay, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So the way it ends up shredding it.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Okay, last thing Can you identify the size of a buck
by the rub to an extent.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, I mean, is there a way to?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
do bigger bucks rub differently Bigger trees, bigger
trees, okay, typically yes.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Typically, yes, yeah.
Bigger trees, okay.
Typically, yes, typically, yes,yeah, but I've been on rub
lines and I've watched bucks onrub lines.
Sometimes the dominant buckwill let all the little bucks do
the work, because the doe comesthrough that rub line trying to
.
You know, you know it's it'ssurvival of the species, right?
So she wants to get bred.
I can't remember the article Iread about this, but they said
that 70% of the does get bred inthat first estrous cycle and
(30:53):
that they want to be bred by thetop two bucks the dominant one
and the one underneath them.
Yeah.
And that's just for thepreservation of the species.
The strong survive kind ofthing, you know, the strong
survive kind of thing, and andbut I so does, we'll go through
rub lines and they'll leavetheir scent there, because the
bucks will go through the rublines every day checking for the
(31:14):
scent of the dough, and so I'veseen the bigger bucks not do
hardly any rubs on a rub line.
Let all the little bucks do it.
And then when the dough comesthrough and leaves her scent, he
just kind of walks in there,smells her and then tracks her
down.
Yeah.
So I don't know if that's justhim saying I'm done.
You know, you guys do all this.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's like she's going to be mine.
I don't need to do any morework.
You just go ahead and take careof that.
Maybe in a few years you'll getlike, but right now, no.
Yeah.
Yeah, go practice.
Okay, any other thoughts onsigns that we might be wanting
to look for?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, I would just say this that don't make
anything.
It doesn't have to be difficult, so don't overthink it.
Yeah.
Okay, these animals areintelligent, they are smart, but
at the same time, if you startthinking like they do, as far as
survival is number one and thenbreeding is number two and then
eating is number three, if youthink of it in that order, you
(32:20):
can figure out these animalsrelatively easy.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
It's not that smart.
We tend to make it harder thanit needs to be.
Yeah, I think a lot fromconversations I've had are guys
making the perfect enemy of thegood Right.
So you know there's a lot ofreally good signs but you give
up because you didn't see thatrub line or you didn't see this
or you didn't see that.
Right.
So you walk away from an areathat you shouldn't have walked
away from, because making theperfect enemy of the good.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, and we overthink it, but at the same
time, I get it because there's alot.
You're hearing multiple thingsfrom a lot of people.
Yeah.
So if you want to be successful, I will say this If you want to
be a big buck killer, thenlearn from somebody who kills
big bucks.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Consistently.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Don't sit there and listen to the guy who kills
spikes and forker horns everyyear, unless that's what you're
happy with.
And if it is what you're happywith, that is absolutely,
totally fine.
Yeah.
I mean, it's your tag, you putit on the buck.
You want to put it on.
But, if you are in the processof your hunting career where
(33:25):
you're saying I want to step itup, I want to get bigger bucks,
I want to get more, then go tothe guy or the gal that is doing
that every year consistently.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
That's who you want to listen to.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Okay, well, with that , we're going to wrap up this
episode.
Thanks for listening to us thisweek and if you haven't already
, check out our Patreon.
We started that and we willtalk to you again next week.
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