March 31, 2025 • 42 mins
The invisible element that determines hunting success more than any other factor isn't your gear, your shooting skill, or even your stealth – it's your understanding of the wind. Aaron and Dave dive deep into this critical yet often misunderstood topic, breaking down the science and strategy behind hunting the wind effectively.
For hunters transitioning from flat Midwestern terrain to the challenging topography of the Pacific Northwest, understanding how wind behaves across hills, drainages, and various elevations becomes essential knowledge. The hosts clarify fundamental concepts like upwind versus downwind positioning, explaining why being downwind of your target animal (where their scent blows toward you) is always the goal. As Dave emphasizes, "You can fool their eyes, you can fool their ears, but you cannot fool their nose."
Particularly fascinating is the discussion of thermal patterns and their predictable yet complex behavior. Morning thermals rise as the sun warms the ground, while evening thermals fall as temperatures drop – but south-facing slopes will behave differently than north-facing ones within the same area. The hosts explore advanced concepts like "wind tunnels" that explain why dominant bucks often bed three-quarters of the way up hillsides, and "wind vacuums" in drainages that can pull your scent in unexpected directions.
Whether you're a veteran hunter or just getting started, this episode provides practical knowledge for immediate application. The recommendation to always carry and frequently use a wind checker (whether it's powder, yarn, or another tool) might seem basic, but as both hosts admit, it took them years to develop this disciplined habit. Their discussion of optimal wind speeds for hunting and the advantages of elevated positions like tree stands offers tactical advice for upcoming seasons.
Ready to take your hunting success to the next level? Understanding and respecting wind patterns isn't just about technique—it's about appreciating the remarkable sensory capabilities of the animals we pursue and the natural systems they navigate. Listen, learn, and transform your approach to the hunt.
https://blog.redmondhunt.com/how-to-hunt-with-wind
https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/downwind-vs-upwind/
https://soulseekersnation.com/2019/05/20/hunting-101-part-4-understanding-the-wind-thermals/
https://enviroliteracy.org/does-wind-hurt-deer-hunting/
https://www.camohuntnstuff.com/huntwind.html
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week we're going to talkabout hunting the wind, so I
want to get back into someactual hunting specific content
for when we're out in the field.
I know we've taken a break herefor a while and talked about
other topics, but so first wewant to start off with just some
definitions.
So we have a big mix oflisteners.
(00:21):
You know we have guys who arenew to hunting, who've maybe
only been hunting a couple,three years like me and we also
have guys who have been hunting40 years.
So hopefully we have someinformation that everyone's
going to learn something from.
But we want to cover somedefinitions real first.
So just so that people who arenew to hunting or maybe new to
(00:41):
even thinking about winds andthey're going to be very
different.
So if you've moved from theMidwest or a Great Plains state
where everything's really flat,the winds are going to act very
different than they do herewhere it's hills everywhere.
So first thing, why don't youtell us just definition for
upwind and downwind?
What are we talking about whenwe use those terms?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
So when we say upwind and downwind, typically that's
in relation to where we thinkour target animal is.
Okay, you know it's where we'rethinking they're either going
to be bedded or where they'refeeding, or where the travel
corridor is and how theytraverse that.
We want to always be downwindfrom them.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, but what does it mean to be downwind?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Downwind means that you are in the direction.
The wind is blowing from yourtarget animal to you.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, so it's the relationship between the hunter
and the animal.
Correct, it's upwind anddownwind are phrases that refer
to that.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Kind of like upstream and downstream.
So if your fishing hole isabove you and the current is
going down past you, then you'redownwind from that fishing or
downstream from that fishinghole, excuse me.
And the same is true of winds,in the sense that if your target
animal is blowing its scentfrom that animal to you, then
(02:01):
you are downwind from thatanimal.
If it is your scent blowing tohim, then he is downwind from it
.
Animal.
If it is your scent blowing tohim, then he is downwind from it
.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And you're upwind from your target animal, and
that's not what we want, okay,okay.
Next thing we want to define isthermals, because we see that
term tossed around a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So what do we mean by thermals?
So thermals are basicallyeverywhere you go, okay, and
thermals are the winds in themorning and the afternoon and
they're basically your low-lyingwinds that just kind of roll
over the ground.
I wouldn't say they're veryhigh, they're not prevailing
winds, they're just down 20 feetand lower.
And basically what yourthermals do is they react to the
(02:41):
sun.
So as the sun comes up and theyget direct sunlight on an area,
it heats up the air or thethermals in that area, and as
the air heats up it starts torise.
So until it heats up it's goingto fall.
So if it's flat, then it'sgoing to probably swirl and
(03:02):
chase maybe your topography alittle bit more.
What you're saying about theMidwest is kind of poignant here
.
I went to school in NorthDakota.
There was very few hills andvery few trees, so the wind was
always blowing.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
You know.
So there was really nodirection for a thermal there,
because there was no up and downas far as topography.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, and it also, as we both read a bunch of
articles related to thisthermals are controlled by the
ground being heated by the sun.
So in the morning, as thisground is being heated, that is
going to cause the air over thatground to start rising, uh-huh
and okay.
So what fills that space?
(03:45):
And that's where the thermalsand that-.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
That short the light breeze gets going.
That's what's causing all that.
Okay, so now true or prevailingwind?
What are we talking about there?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
So prevailing wind and guys will hear me say this,
whether it's at the trainings orthe field days or bootcamp or
anything like that theprevailing wind.
When I find an area I typicallywill check, I'll set a waypoint
and I will check that area forthe next week, two weeks, three
weeks, sometimes even a month,where I will periodically pull
(04:19):
up that waypoint.
And Onyx and HuntStand and allof these apps that are on your
phones now will have a winddirection tool that you can turn
on and it will tell you thewind in your area that
particular day.
And what you do is youbasically find a prevailing wind
.
After a while, you'll see thatmost of the time your wind will
be out of the northeast or thenorthwest or the southwest or
(04:42):
you know something to thateffect, and that's when you're
going to say, okay, that's theprevailing wind.
The true wind is when you'reout there and it's like, okay,
here we are, my prevailing wind,which may be my upper, higher
winds may be going, you know,coming out of the Northwest,
blowing Southeast, but the windI'm experiencing right now here
(05:03):
in this area is blowing moreeasterly, northeast.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know what I mean.
So when you see the big weatherreport that's telling you what
the prevailing winds are, right,right, but topography can-.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Can dictate something altogether different.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What the true wind is .
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, you can get it swirling and all that stuff, and
that's the thing is.
Guys need to understand thatwind travels in layers.
It isn't just one windeverywhere all the time,
although your prevailing windwill tend to dominate and get
those winds going in thatdirection.
But they can swirl and there'sa whole bunch that can happen
because of topography.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And I just saw a random video talking about the
jet stream.
And those are winds that areit's a prevailing wind, but
they're up 30,000 feet, yeah,but they're moving at 200 miles
an hour.
Right, which is why planes tendto fly along with the jet
stream for saving fuel orwhatever, but it's a different
layer of wind.
We don't experience those downat ground level.
(06:00):
So the last thing, what's awind check?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A wind check is any tool, and I mean it can be
anything from yarn I've seenyarn used as wind check,
feathers powder any tool thatyou can use that will signify at
any given point, when youeither puff on it or you know
it's hanging on some apparel ora weapon I know guys will tie
stuff to their bows to see stuffor you can release like little
(06:28):
tufts of yarn and it'll floatand carry on the wind current
that is in your immediate area.
So whatever tool that you usethat can signify to you which
direction that wind is going isa wind check.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Even as a kid, you know you get your finger wet,
whichever side is cold.
That's the wind, that's thedirection and I would say, no
matter what you think about whatthe winds are doing, always
have a wind check on you.
This is what I've learnedAlways have a wind check on you
when you go out to your spot, ifyou're out scouting, when
you're out going hunting, yeah,you just have that wind check
(07:04):
with you, because it seems kindof basic, doesn't it?
but honestly it that one took mea while to really remember that
I needed to bring well and andokay.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So you're two years into this, yeah, and you started
doing.
When would you say you started?
You know, religiously relyingon that wind check probably this
, this last hunting.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I but see it was real hit and miss last year
because I basically always hadthe wind kind of at my back but
it would swirl a lot more whereI was hunting the year before
last.
Last year, the wind it didn'tmatter what the prevailing wind
did and it didn't matter theseason.
The wind was always blowing thesame direction.
Every time, every single time,because of where my hunting spot
(07:46):
, my kill site, was.
But that's when I reallystarted depending on the wind
check, bringing that out with me.
In fact, when I went out anddid some scouting, because one
of the things and we'll talkabout this in a little bit uh, I
wanted to find out, since I'mon a drainage, on the edge of a
drainage, and I, when we weretalking last year, you suggested
I back off that drainage a waysto create my set, which was a
(08:09):
perfect place, because I wasdownwind of my set, you know, 12
yards and they never caughtwind of me and I was constantly
doing my wind checks while I wassitting in stand.
I'd kind of put it out towardsthe edge of the stand or the
blind to see where the wind wasblowing.
But there's a certain point andit's, I would say, 20 yards, 25
yards if I go closer to that,the edge of that drainage, and
(08:32):
the wind shifts direction.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sucks it right down there.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, and we'll talk about wind vacuums and that
effect in a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
But yeah, that really taught me bring it every time,
because I need to know where thewind's going yeah, yeah, and
that's that's the point I'mmaking is, you're two years into
this and you already realizethe importance of needing to
know where the wind.
I've got some guys.
I've met guys that have beendoing hunting, you know, decades
(09:02):
and they still don't believethe whole wind thing.
They think it's just a bigfarce and and that you know deer
and elk don't care and theycan't smell you and anything
like this.
And it's like I go back to whatI you know.
Well, if you're not feelingtags, you know well then you got
to start.
You got to start looking atsomething you're doing.
You know what I mean.
You got to start knocking downsome things and eliminating some
(09:24):
factors as to why this is notworking out for you.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And I guess it would also depend on what you're
hunting.
Deer and elk, of course, BearGreat sense of smell.
All of those, I imagine coyote.
If you're hunting coyote, thatthey're going to win.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I think weapon plays a huge role in it too.
Weapon plays a huge role in ittoo.
Some guys feel like, becausethey're shooting a modern
firearm and their range is somuch greater than that of of you
know, like an archer or even amuzzle loader you know that they
don't feel like they need topay attention to it as much.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, but I know one of the things like turkey
hunters scent doesn't matter.
Right, right.
When you're turkey hunting.
So if you were, if you'd grownup turkey hunting and not hunted
anything else, you might bewalking into a situation where
this is a new thing that youactually have to consider that
you didn't have to consider frombefore.
(10:15):
And I don't know about catsthey don't smell as well as Cats
.
Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, do they?
Yeah, oh okay.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, they're really good nose.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, yeah, see.
Oh yeah, oh, do they.
Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, they'rereally good nose.
Okay, yeah, see, I didn't knowabout that.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I've never hunted cats and that's the thing.
Most of your ungulates and mostof your predators, that's the
way it is Okay, you know, andthey rely heavily on their nose.
Anybody that runs hounds of anykind, whether it's beagles, you
know, co bear hounds, whateverknows that.
Yeah, those dogs don't operateon sight.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
No.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It's all about scent you know, yeah, and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, so let's dig into upwind and downwind hunting
a little bit more here.
So how do we hunt where itrelates to upwind and downwind,
just real basic here.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Are you talking deer or are you talking elk?
I would say there's a differencewell, you know most guys want
to run and gun for elk okay, andso they.
You're constantly, constantlychecking that wind because you
know you want to keep the windin your face.
You want to hunt into the windin the mornings, yeah, you know,
and obviously in the evenings,but the mornings is generally
(11:23):
your longer hunt if you're, ifyou're calling and bugling and
all that stuff, and you'reconstantly checking that wind,
trying to keep it in your favor.
And then when you get a bull,that's hot and you're working
him, you know that he's going totry and circle to get the wind
on you.
Okay.
Every time.
So you have to play that littlechess match where you're riding
that wave, where it's right onthe edge of where you're safe,
(11:45):
but you got to keep because he'sgoing to try and circle you.
So you know if you're theshooter, because he doesn't know
where you're at, the caller'spulling him past you so you have
to.
You're between the caller andthe herd bull.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Or the bull period.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So, and so these some things are going, and I know
you've described a lot when youwent to Eastern Oregon, and so
the caller is always behind youfor when the person doing the
bugling or a cow called.
Usually it's bugling.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It's whatever that bull will respond to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay, so in those types of well actually and this
is getting off- well, I supposeit's related to hunting the wind
.
Yeah, and this is getting off.
Well, I suppose it's related tohunting the wind.
But, why, and honestly I knowthis is a safety issue, but why
wouldn't?
If the bull is going to circlearound you, why wouldn't the
(12:37):
person calling be in front ofyou so that when it circles
behind him, it then comes infront of the shooter?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Because he's circling to get the wind in his favor.
He wants to wind to make surethat that's another cow or bull
that's calling to him.
Okay, that it's not a hunter,you know.
And then the guy, that's so ifyou're not the caller, you're
the shooter.
You're not going to make toomuch sound unless, for some
reason, you know, you get bustedor something happens and you
(13:04):
start cow calling and he'sresponding to you now instead of
the caller behind you.
You still I mean, this hashappened a half dozen times to
me, you know and another bullcomes in, quiet, you know.
And so I've been the caller andhad bulls come in on me there
and I got my shooters out infront of me, you know.
And so it's just like blacktail, it's just like big bucks.
(13:26):
The wind is everything.
You can fool their eyes, youcan fool their ears, but you
cannot fool their nose, and theyknow that, and that's their
number one line of defense.
That's what they're going tofall back on every single time.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So if you're hunting, when you have a caller, someone
calling for you, and you'rehunting elk are.
Do you ever do you take wind inconsideration as far as where
you each of you place?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
yourselves.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Oh, absolutely, okay, absolutely and I know there's
times where you're doing likethe run and gun uh-huh thing
with elk, but I know you've alsodone created sets for elk, you
know, for a long time when youwere hunting outside of starkey
there, and so I mean that wouldbe potentially a little easier
maybe to have your where.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Well and it's funny that we're talking about this,
because thermals play such ahuge role, especially when
you're doing so I would run andgun in the morning and I would
sit and stand at night.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In the evenings rather, and the evening hunt was
always really quick becausethose bulls don't get those cows
up and moving until thethermals have shifted most of
the time.
Okay, until they're really,really hot and then they'll
scream all day long Okay, pushthem around.
But so the evening hunttypically is like 20, 30 minutes
just before dark.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
But so you're constantly and the thing is, is
that where you're wanting topull these elk into, it's great
at three, four o'clock in theafternoon, because then you know
the wind is blowing up and it'snot going toward them or
anything, at least where youknow where I would set up and it
was fine.
But then when the evening come,you know, and the thermal
shifted, well, now it's blowingdown where I don't want it to go
(15:01):
.
So it was always.
It was a real fine line.
It was really hard at times andat times, you know, it just
seemed like it always worked out.
But yeah, thermals played abigger role in that than just
the afternoon regular prevailingwind, simply because I was
waiting for that thermal toshift.
Okay, and that's what got thoseelk up and moving.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
So next question is how should I be entering my spot
or my set?
Or how should I be entering myset or spot and stock related to
upwind or downwind?
I mean, is it where you alwayswant to keep it when you're
coming in?
Where you're downwind of yourset?
I mean, what happens?
And I'm thinking about this.
(15:41):
I hunted my spot my first yearwhere if I wanted to be upwind
of my kill site, I would havehad to cross over the transition
zone Right.
The game trail that I washunting off of.
So I'm spreading my scentthrough that trail to get to the
optimal spot, right, right, soyeah, how are we supposed to
(16:05):
figure out those situations?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So that's a good question by an Ozonics.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Honestly, that's what saved me last year.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Right, right, but you're still walking in and most
guys don't have the Ozonicsgoing while they're walking in.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But I tell the guys that come to the classes and
whatnot that that dominant buckis going to tolerate so much of
your scent.
Yeah.
Okay, and he's patterning youjust as much as you're
patterning him.
Okay, and it would be the same,like back when we used to be
able to bait bears.
It was the same thing, they'repatterning you.
So you would do the same thingagain and again and again.
(16:40):
It would just be ritualistic,you know, and you wanted like,
okay, I'm going to ride myfour-wheeler in and I'm going to
be whistling.
Once you did it, once you didit the same every single time.
That way that bear got used tothe routine.
He'd hear you come in, he wouldhear you leave.
You know he would hear thefour-wheeler come in, he would
hear the four-wheeler leave,hear you whistling or whatever
(17:01):
you know.
And you would spend the sameamount of time every time you
would do the exact same thing,whether it's check your camera
at this point.
Do you know your scents?
Whatever, it's the same withbucks they're patterning you and
they're going to allow so muchof that scent.
Yeah.
So I'm not too worried about myscent blowing into the core area
when I'm going in to do myscents.
(17:23):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, like I do and then do mysense, check my cameras, check
my dripper, all that stuff, andthen walk out.
That's different than if I wantto go hunt.
So on the days that I want togo hunt, I want to slip in there
as quickly and as quietly as Ican and I want that wind to be
in my favor because I want toget in stand or in the blind or
(17:45):
whatever before.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, so would you potentially have two, if it's?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
possible, two setups, two ways to get into your set.
Okay, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Okay, and I know that that, and eventually I'll go
back to that first place that Iwas hunting Although I'm
probably going to move around atmy hilltop set, but where I
hunted last year my halfway setthe wind was just perfect.
I mean, every time I walked in,the wind was always blowing in
my face the whole time, thewhole way in, and I'm like, okay
(18:20):
, this is a great spot becauseof that.
So, yeah, but eventually I'mgoing to go back because I want
to hunt Anakin.
I'm going to go back to thatspot, and I will deal with winds
that shift a lot more right,swirl, uh things like that, and
I.
One of the things I did learn,though, is in the morning, they
were usually moving uh, I'mtrying to think, I think they
(18:43):
were moving more east to west,and it might have been more
thermals, and then in theafternoon, they shifted in west
east, so they would come out onone side.
There was a bedding area abovethis swamp, and so in the
morning they would come in onone side of the swamp and in the
(19:04):
evening they would go back inon the other side of the swamp
because they would be catchingthe wind of the swamp.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Right, right, and that's the main thing that we
need to realize as hunters isthat these deer elk, whatever
the animal is, they don't justmeander.
There is a purpose toeverything they do, because it's
always about survival.
And when you stop and think ofit like that, then you realize
that it's not by chance thatthey're on this trail.
They know exactly what they'redoing.
(19:34):
It's all about staying alive,it's all about avoiding
predators, so they're using thatwind all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Okay, so you mentioned earlier about wind
moving in layers, so why wouldit be important to get into a
different layer of wind?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, so that's a good question, because I feel
like that's the main reason whyI enjoy tree stand or tree
saddle hunting so much Becauseof the confidence that I have.
Once I get, say, 20 to 24 feetup, I feel like I'm in another
wind layer and I feel like myscent is being carried over them
(20:11):
99.9% of the time.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, I mean I still use an Ozonics and all and
that kind of stuff, but foryears before I even had that,
you know, I would still get uphigh and it just brings a
feeling of confidence over meLike I'm in another wind layer.
That's above and I feel likeit's about 15 feet.
12 to 15 feet down to theground is about where I feel
like that's about 15 feet.
12 to 15 feet down to down tothe ground is about where I feel
(20:36):
like that's the first layerthat's the first layer, okay and
I feel like if you're, ifyou're in that layer, then
you've really really gotta, youknow, be on top.
Not that you don't have toanyway, but you, I mean you just
gotta be on your game all thetime scent control and big time
movement and yeah there's a lotaffected.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And, and I know, when I was reading these articles,
the image came to my mind thatand this is I do a rafting trip
every year with my family and if, say, there's a big rock in the
middle of this river, ifthere's two feet of water over
this rock, you'll see theeffects of it and it'll bump up
(21:15):
and it'll drop down, but itwon't churn.
That you'll see up near the top.
Now if there's only six inchesof water going over that rock,
when it goes down on the backside, the water starts churning.
So it's that different.
It's the same thing with thewater versus the air.
You have to get higher than thechurn of that water.
(21:37):
And when we talk about thermals, one of the things that we saw
are the kind of the wind tunnelsthat can be created from that.
But getting above that wherethe air churns, and then they
can pick up your scent, Right.
So, yeah, you getting up high,kind of fits in.
That's when you were telling meabout that.
That's what, how it made senseto me Right.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And what's funny is so I go to Kansas every year, or
at least every year that I drawand I tree stand hunt down
there, but I mean the trees areso much smaller and it's just
like you know and there's whitetail running everywhere, but I
mean it's just that much moredifficult.
I come back home and it's likewe got these big fir trees and
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So I get up there and I'm like, yeah, this is so much
easier than Kansas, so but yeah, Okay, so let's move into
thermals and talking about those, this was interesting, so we
read these articles and it kindof of it didn't jibe with what
you knew about thermals yeah,well, and I the way they worded
it made it really confuse it,because it made it sound like
(22:41):
they were saying that morning up, evening down is the basic that
I took away from it
Speaker 3 (22:48):
right, which is right , yeah, which which is right.
But the way that that theyworded it, it was like okay, so
what they're saying, and and theway that it came across to me
that they were saying that youknow that cold thermals rise and
that warm thermals fall, andthat's the exact opposite of of
the hillsides or anything likethat.
It's daybreak, so you can seeand everything but the thermals.
(23:17):
Until that sun comes up,they're still going down.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and it's whatever, and one of the things
that just popped into my head isa lot of those articles were
talking about whitetail, whichmeans they're talking about
different areas of hunting thataren't the Pacific Northwest.
There's a few spots that areflat around here, but for the
most part we're a very hillycountry, absolutely.
And so it's just very different.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, these are mountains, these are mountains
compared to what people in theMidwest are used to.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, Slopes, small slopes over there, yeah.
So whatever ground warms upfirst, that air is going to rise
, correct.
So something has to fill thatvoid.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That space, yep.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, and so that's going to start pulling in.
So if it's, say, a south-facingslope, tell me if I'm wrong
here.
A south-facing slope that'sgoing to warm up first, correct,
so the thermals might be movingup there, but on the
north-facing slope, on the otherside of that drainage, where
there's no sun hitting it,that's cold, it's still going to
be moving down RightPotentially.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Right, okay, and the evidence in that is your
south-facing slopes green upfirst.
Yeah.
Because they get the mostsunlight, especially this time
of year Springtime.
We've got turkey season comingup, we've got spring season
coming up, we got spring bearcoming up.
You want to focus onsouth-facing slopes because they
get the most sunlight, so theyget the first sunlight, they get
the most sunlight, and sothey're going to green up
(24:43):
quicker, they're going to warmup quicker.
The animals are going to comeout there.
They're going to sit there inthe sun and warm up a little bit
, versus a north-facing slope,which is going to get very
little sunlight, especially thistime of year, and so the
thermals are going to be thatwind is going to be cold.
It's going to want to go downall the time.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, okay.
So one of the things as we werereading and I will actually, in
the description I will type outall these articles that I read
there's one in particular, and Ican't remember the website, but
it had information talkingabout vacuum effect, talked
about a corkscrew, so those windtunnels and what brought this
(25:24):
on.
So we have a listener and hewas actually at our woodland
class.
His name's Race, hi Race, howare you?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
doing?
How are you doing Race?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So he had asked me about a hunting spot and so this
is kind of because of that.
But he was showing me his spot,that he was hunting, and he was
talking about ridgelines andwhere should I hunt?
And that's actually whatspurred this episode, because I
was thinking the winds and thetime of day affected a lot of
(25:52):
where he might hunt, because hepointed out where he'd seen a
big buck.
Okay and so.
But it's figuring out wherehe's going to be in the morning,
where he's going to be in theevening, all of that, or for
those afternoon hunts.
But one of the things that wecame across is the thermal
tunnels.
So this was a combined effectof prevailing wind.
So maybe a sharper hillside onone side, bigger angle of slope,
(26:16):
degree of slope versus more ofa flatter, gentler slope on the
other side.
And maybe the prevailing windsare blowing up over the top of
that and if you have, as it goesover and there might be, you
know the thermals when they'recoming up, but there's a
prevailing wind that's blowing,but thermals coming up it
(26:40):
creates a corkscrew.
Right.
So the wind thermals coming uphits that wind coming up over
the top of that ridge and itcreates a wind tunnel effect.
And you have talked aboutduring locating that.
They love benches, they lovehanging out at that three
quarter of the way up thehillside.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Right Dominant buck.
Typically, when they bed in theopen, especially during early
season and whatnot, or if theyfind a thick spot on the
hillside, they will bed threequarters of the way up a hill or
up a ridge Because of that windtunnel that you're referring to
.
It brings the scent over thetop, brings it right down to
(27:22):
them.
Yeah.
And it seems counterintuitive tosay that it brings it down to
them.
But, like you're describinghere the way the wind comes over
the top and then combines withthe air that's on the other side
, hot and cold hot and cold.
It causes that wind tunnel andso it starts pulling that air
down and around and it brings itright down to them.
So they're watching their back.
(27:42):
Without having to watch theirback, they can tell what's
coming from above them and theycan focus on what's below them
as far as the visual side of it.
But you know, because it's's awind tunnel, because it's up and
down, the wind is being broughtup to them as well.
Yeah so there is that sweet spoton that ridge that those bucks
will bed.
So the way to approach them isnot from the top or the bottom,
(28:04):
but to side hill them.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
But it's exactly why they bed down right there.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So, and yeah, if, if, and they can, if they're three
quarters of the way up, and thatway they can smell everything
below them.
They can smell everything abovethem and if they catch wind of
a predator, whether that's ahuman or some other, a cat or a
bear or something, they couldstep just down below that wind
tunnel.
If they don't smell it, theyknow that it's up above them, or
(28:30):
they could just step up to thetop of that ridge.
If they don't smell, they know,they know that it's up above
them, or they could just step upto the top of that ridge If
they don't smell it.
They know that the smell wascoming from below them.
One of the things.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And it's a very minimal amount of effort to get
the answer.
They're trying and that's whatguys need to understand is that
they're there again because ofsurvival, but it's very little
effort for them to determinewhere it's coming from and
escape right away.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, so one of the things and I tried to research
this and I don't know what youthink about this, but so
thinking of, and when we say itcreates a wind tunnel, but I was
wondering about like acorkscrew, so thinking of a
tornado you know it sucks thingsup from the ground to the top
(29:16):
of the tornado, from the groundto the top of the tornado.
So I was wondering if thosetunnels work from, maybe, say,
one edge to the other.
Is it like if there's a bottomand a top of that tunnel Right
right, and so if they catch anysmell from the bottom of it, if
that's a thing?
So you said you want toside-hunt them, side-heal them?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're walking in, their tunnel
and it want to side-hunt them,side-heal them.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're walking in their tunnel
and it's corkscrewing to them,it would seem like it might pull
your scent towards them and see.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I honestly I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I mean I can honestly say I don't know.
On that one I'd be guessing,Because I guess I always thought
of it like the eye of a storm,where it's calm inside the eye
of the storm.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Okay, and that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You know what I mean, when it's like well, okay, so
yeah, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But thinking about that, like if you, let's say,
you were spot and stalking andif you kept blowing them out,
that might be something toconsider.
Oh, absolutely, and I wonderedthat because I think so.
That description I justdescribed is one of my sets, my
Riverside set.
Okay, so I've created a andI've never really gone beyond
(30:34):
just setting up some cameras,maybe throwing out some minerals
and things like that.
But I've got a couple of reallynice bucks on there and they
show up the same week each year,but that's it.
I've never seen them except forthat week, 10 days.
Okay.
So I know that the bedding areais up somewhere else, but fairly
close by there.
They have a small range, butthe way that the wind is always
(30:57):
blowing it's coming down fromI'm at the kind of the end sort
of the hillside, but it's alwaysblowing like downhill out away
from that hillside and, like Isaid, steep on one side and flat
up at the top or a real gradualslope up at the top.
And so I thought, well, the waythe wind is moving where I'm at
(31:21):
being at one end, that just Ikind of wondered if that was
sucking the air over to me.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Right, it makes sense .
I mean, it could be very easily.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And so.
But the thing is is to get tothe area that I think he's at.
That means I have to go to theend where the air and the the
scent is being sucked from right, you know.
So it's made me wonder about,like boy, how would I?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
right, because I could get in there from my side,
but it's not as practical stufflike that makes me think that
these animals are a lot moreintelligent than people give
them credit for you know what Imean, yeah I mean because it's
like when you, when they get,when you're busted by them
hardly ever is it because ofwhat they hear or see.
They typically it's it's thescent.
(32:07):
They've smelled you long beforeyou ever showed up.
They knew you were there.
They just thought if theystayed still, you know it would
be fine, but you proved thatwrong and yeah, so now they bust
out of there you know theysmell the Doritos on your breath
.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, the Little Debbies, as the memes all say.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
The Zingers or the Little Debbies.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
But thinking about all of things that you know we
put together to do a hunt,that's just another part of the
puzzle.
Oh, absolutely.
How do I get in there?
And, like you said, they couldtolerate a little bit of my
scent.
Well, if I go in in the morningand the air is real still and
that the thermals haven't kickedin, I could potentially get in
(32:47):
there and get up above the windin a tree stand or ladder stand
or something, but that'd have tobe a morning Like.
By afternoon I potentially thatcould make my hunt that much
harder.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, you have to figure out another way.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I mean it just, and that's what makes you know that
they're really smart.
Yeah.
He's there for a reason.
So, it wasn't by accident thathe picked that spot.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Anyway, but that was kind of a real thing that it
talked about on those hillsidesand so I wondered about that
corkscrew effect.
But it also talked about windvacuums.
So as you have a drainage orsome sort of valley headed down
with fingers coming into thatdrainage, right, so other, maybe
(33:33):
creeks, feeding into that.
Well, as wind travels down thatdrainage it sucks the air in
from those other side drainagesor those fingers coming off of
it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
It pulls air that you normally wouldn't think down in
there and it pulls it right tothem.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And wherever that wind goes, that's where your
scent is going.
Right.
And that was one of the things.
Going back to my halfway setthat I hunted last year and I
talked about that, thedifference was 20 yards between
the wind blowing directly intomy set.
So according to the drainage itwas probably blowing.
If that was midnight, sixo'clock on a clock, I was
(34:13):
probably about eight o'clock atan angle and from the drainage.
So I was at an angle to thedrainage and we actually didn't
even talk about angles to thewind, but then it was blowing
directly in my face.
Now if I move 20 yards to myright, that vacuum effect kicked
in, the wind blew, was suckingright down into that drainage.
(34:33):
So when I put out actually Iput out some scents or some
minerals, I put it right on theedge so that all that smell
would go into there and go downinto that drainage in that big
swamp area down below Right,because that made sense.
You know I wanted that scent tocarry, but I don't want that
during my hunting season.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And it's funny because it don't matter what
time of year.
Yeah what time of year?
Yeah, with the, whether it'sfall, winter, spring, summer,
there's a line you know thatthat that is on like these
ridges, these little fingerridges, where it doesn't matter
how warm or cold it is, thatwind is getting it sucked down
into that valley and I've had,like logging roads do the same
(35:13):
thing, old skidder roads, yeah,uh, I've.
I can think of one right nowthat I used to bear hunt on, and
it didn't matter what time ofyear, whether it was hot in
middle of August, 95 to 100degrees out, that wind always
blew downhill.
I could never approach thatfrom uphill because the gate was
(35:34):
uphill.
The old skidder road wentdownhill and every single time
it's just something about thetopography that made that wind.
It didn't matter how hot it was, warm outside, it would always
suck it downhill and I wasalways getting busted.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
And that's that halfway set.
It doesn't matter how the windis blowing, it's always blowing
in the same direction in thatparticular spot.
It's always blowing in the samedirection in that particular
spot Right.
It's always traveling downhill.
It's always traveling down thatdrainage and I can be standing
in.
Now it can be blowing a littlestronger at times, or up above
(36:13):
the ridgetops it's blowing in acompletely different direction,
but down where I'm at it alwaysbehaves the same and it might be
that down that swamp it's a lotmore open up there.
So a lot more sunlight's goingto hit that and if that air is
rising because it's warmer,something's got to fill that
void and it's going to path ofleast resistance.
So that's why it gets suckeddown, that drainage, okay.
(36:38):
So last thing we want to talkabout here is the wind speed for
the hunts, because one of thearticles talked about what's
good wind speed for deer, andI'll just read these off real
quick Zero to four, deermovement is usually highest and
senses are not significantlydisrupted.
Zero to four miles an hour.
Five to fourteen good forhunters as it can mask sounds
(37:01):
and sense without limiting deermovement.
15 and up winds begin to bedisruptive to deer senses and
movement will decline or stopcan be good for spot and stock
and deer are more stationary.
So and I think.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
What do you think about that?
So as as here, as far as heregoes, I agree 100%.
Okay.
But like I've hunted, like Isaid, North Dakota, Kansas, a
lot of high winds there and it'ssomething that's just a part of
the everyday occurrence there.
You know, especially NorthDakota, there's always a 10 to
15 mile an hour wind minimum outthere, you know, because
(37:36):
there's nothing to stop it.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Nothing to stop it, nothing to stop it yeah, you
know.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And kansas, I mean, I remember the first year I
hunted kansas good friend ofmine, steven freeze, j&m
outfitters and we got up onemorning and it was, you know, 25
to 30 mile an hour gusts andeverything.
And I was thinking, well, we'relosing a day of hunting.
And they looked at me like, oh,you're crazy.
No, today's the day.
And I'm like, what are youtalking about, you know?
(38:00):
And they're like, oh, you'regonna see a ton of deer today
with this wind, they're gonna bemoving.
And and, uh, man, they wereright.
I went out and I saw buck afterbuck after buck and uh, it was,
it was crazy.
They were so not nervous, theywere so relaxed and just, man,
(38:20):
they were, it was the calmestI'd ever seen, whitetail, you
know.
And they were like, yeah,because of the wind, they just
kind of it's kind of sensoryoverload, and so they just
they're more dependent on theireyes than anything and and they
just, yeah, they can't smellanything and so they just kind
of, I don't know, vapor lock onstuff yeah, it overloads them
yeah, and, and so I've sat outhere in windstorms and I've and
(38:42):
I've, I've seen deer movement,you know, and I've actually
killed big, uh, big buck in in awindstorm and stuff.
But it gets a little scarier outhere.
Yeah, you know where the 15foot tree going over versus the
40 foot tree going over, I'vehad, I can think of one set that
I didn't go out on thewindstorm and I'm glad I didn't.
(39:02):
I came in the next day and thefir tree next to the one that I
was sitting in went over and itwas leaning partially against
the platform of my stand andagainst the tree across the way
and I was like like, oh my gosh,you know.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
That would be freaky yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
So it's a little different here as far as that
goes, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, in one of my spots that I created a kind of a
throw together, I put one ofthose little it wasn't a full
ground, blind, it was just oneof those little camouflage
shields, blind things that yousit behind and I put out a
little like a turkey chair, 15yards off my set by a tree.
And you know, I created this incase I was going to hunt their
(39:46):
set and I didn't.
And when I went back out acouple of weeks later we'd had a
big windstorm and one of thethings is there's always
branches falling there, bigalders, big giant alders, which
those just fall over.
You know, yeah yeah you push onthem and they fall over.
So I went out.
There were three, probably 60foot.
It was a clump of fir trees,but three of them had fallen,
(40:10):
two in front, right in front ofthe tree I was next to one right
behind.
I actually had to climb overall this stuff to get to dig my
stuff out and yeah, and therewere like branches everywhere
and I'm like I would have gottenkilled if I had not.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Yeah, the wife has been upset with me a couple of
times and stuff, and it's gottena little hairy out there.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
So okay, so, but overall for those wind speeds,
yeah, overall I agree.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, especially the 5 to 14.
Uh-huh, that's a great time togo out, because it does.
You know, it just carries yourscent gone.
Yeah, you know which is ideal.
Yeah, you know, real calm daysare really difficult, real
difficult.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Well, that's all the stuff.
I had Any other thoughts abouthunting the wind, thinking about
the wind.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Just yeah, it's key, it's critical.
You know we see it on TV allthe time with the whitetail
hunters and stuff.
And well, you know, I didn't goin because the wind was bad, I
didn't hunt this spot becausethe wind was bad or whatnot, and
you know, you said it.
We use Ozonics a lot, a lot,yeah, and there are other
products on the market, you know, from Nose Jammer to other
(41:22):
ozone generators and stuff likethat.
But point being is you have toaccount for the wind, you just
have to.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It's foolish not to yeah, so anyway, but always when
you're going out, bring yourwind check and check it often,
like if you walk 20 yards, checkit again.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
You can never do it too much.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, because, like I said, 20 yards it can
completely shift on you and thatcan help decide where you're
going to go and where you'regoing to set up.
But anyway, that's all we gotfor this week, and so we will
see you all next week.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week we're going to talkabout hunting the wind, so I
want to get back into someactual hunting specific content
for when we're out in the field.
I know we've taken a break herefor a while and talked about
other topics, but so first wewant to start off with just some
definitions.
So we have a big mix oflisteners.
(00:21):
You know we have guys who arenew to hunting, who've maybe
only been hunting a couple,three years like me and we also
have guys who have been hunting40 years.
So hopefully we have someinformation that everyone's
going to learn something from.
But we want to cover somedefinitions real first.
So just so that people who arenew to hunting or maybe new to
(00:41):
even thinking about winds andthey're going to be very
different.
So if you've moved from theMidwest or a Great Plains state
where everything's really flat,the winds are going to act very
different than they do herewhere it's hills everywhere.
So first thing, why don't youtell us just definition for
upwind and downwind?
What are we talking about whenwe use those terms?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
So when we say upwind and downwind, typically that's
in relation to where we thinkour target animal is.
Okay, you know it's where we'rethinking they're either going
to be bedded or where they'refeeding, or where the travel
corridor is and how theytraverse that.
We want to always be downwindfrom them.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, but what does it mean to be downwind?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Downwind means that you are in the direction.
The wind is blowing from yourtarget animal to you.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, so it's the relationship between the hunter
and the animal.
Correct, it's upwind anddownwind are phrases that refer
to that.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Kind of like upstream and downstream.
So if your fishing hole isabove you and the current is
going down past you, then you'redownwind from that fishing or
downstream from that fishinghole, excuse me.
And the same is true of winds,in the sense that if your target
animal is blowing its scentfrom that animal to you, then
(02:01):
you are downwind from thatanimal.
If it is your scent blowing tohim, then he is downwind from it
.
Animal.
If it is your scent blowing tohim, then he is downwind from it
.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And you're upwind from your target animal, and
that's not what we want, okay,okay.
Next thing we want to define isthermals, because we see that
term tossed around a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So what do we mean by thermals?
So thermals are basicallyeverywhere you go, okay, and
thermals are the winds in themorning and the afternoon and
they're basically your low-lyingwinds that just kind of roll
over the ground.
I wouldn't say they're veryhigh, they're not prevailing
winds, they're just down 20 feetand lower.
And basically what yourthermals do is they react to the
(02:41):
sun.
So as the sun comes up and theyget direct sunlight on an area,
it heats up the air or thethermals in that area, and as
the air heats up it starts torise.
So until it heats up it's goingto fall.
So if it's flat, then it'sgoing to probably swirl and
(03:02):
chase maybe your topography alittle bit more.
What you're saying about theMidwest is kind of poignant here
.
I went to school in NorthDakota.
There was very few hills andvery few trees, so the wind was
always blowing.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
You know.
So there was really nodirection for a thermal there,
because there was no up and downas far as topography.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, and it also, as we both read a bunch of
articles related to thisthermals are controlled by the
ground being heated by the sun.
So in the morning, as thisground is being heated, that is
going to cause the air over thatground to start rising, uh-huh
and okay.
So what fills that space?
(03:45):
And that's where the thermalsand that-.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
That short the light breeze gets going.
That's what's causing all that.
Okay, so now true or prevailingwind?
What are we talking about there?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
So prevailing wind and guys will hear me say this,
whether it's at the trainings orthe field days or bootcamp or
anything like that theprevailing wind.
When I find an area I typicallywill check, I'll set a waypoint
and I will check that area forthe next week, two weeks, three
weeks, sometimes even a month,where I will periodically pull
(04:19):
up that waypoint.
And Onyx and HuntStand and allof these apps that are on your
phones now will have a winddirection tool that you can turn
on and it will tell you thewind in your area that
particular day.
And what you do is youbasically find a prevailing wind
.
After a while, you'll see thatmost of the time your wind will
be out of the northeast or thenorthwest or the southwest or
(04:42):
you know something to thateffect, and that's when you're
going to say, okay, that's theprevailing wind.
The true wind is when you'reout there and it's like, okay,
here we are, my prevailing wind,which may be my upper, higher
winds may be going, you know,coming out of the Northwest,
blowing Southeast, but the windI'm experiencing right now here
(05:03):
in this area is blowing moreeasterly, northeast.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know what I mean.
So when you see the big weatherreport that's telling you what
the prevailing winds are, right,right, but topography can-.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Can dictate something altogether different.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What the true wind is .
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, you can get it swirling and all that stuff, and
that's the thing is.
Guys need to understand thatwind travels in layers.
It isn't just one windeverywhere all the time,
although your prevailing windwill tend to dominate and get
those winds going in thatdirection.
But they can swirl and there'sa whole bunch that can happen
because of topography.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And I just saw a random video talking about the
jet stream.
And those are winds that areit's a prevailing wind, but
they're up 30,000 feet, yeah,but they're moving at 200 miles
an hour.
Right, which is why planes tendto fly along with the jet
stream for saving fuel orwhatever, but it's a different
layer of wind.
We don't experience those downat ground level.
(06:00):
So the last thing, what's awind check?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A wind check is any tool, and I mean it can be
anything from yarn I've seenyarn used as wind check,
feathers powder any tool thatyou can use that will signify at
any given point, when youeither puff on it or you know
it's hanging on some apparel ora weapon I know guys will tie
stuff to their bows to see stuffor you can release like little
(06:28):
tufts of yarn and it'll floatand carry on the wind current
that is in your immediate area.
So whatever tool that you usethat can signify to you which
direction that wind is going isa wind check.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Even as a kid, you know you get your finger wet,
whichever side is cold.
That's the wind, that's thedirection and I would say, no
matter what you think about whatthe winds are doing, always
have a wind check on you.
This is what I've learnedAlways have a wind check on you
when you go out to your spot, ifyou're out scouting, when
you're out going hunting, yeah,you just have that wind check
(07:04):
with you, because it seems kindof basic, doesn't it?
but honestly it that one took mea while to really remember that
I needed to bring well and andokay.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So you're two years into this, yeah, and you started
doing.
When would you say you started?
You know, religiously relyingon that wind check probably this
, this last hunting.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I but see it was real hit and miss last year
because I basically always hadthe wind kind of at my back but
it would swirl a lot more whereI was hunting the year before
last.
Last year, the wind it didn'tmatter what the prevailing wind
did and it didn't matter theseason.
The wind was always blowing thesame direction.
Every time, every single time,because of where my hunting spot
(07:46):
, my kill site, was.
But that's when I reallystarted depending on the wind
check, bringing that out with me.
In fact, when I went out anddid some scouting, because one
of the things and we'll talkabout this in a little bit uh, I
wanted to find out, since I'mon a drainage, on the edge of a
drainage, and I, when we weretalking last year, you suggested
I back off that drainage a waysto create my set, which was a
(08:09):
perfect place, because I wasdownwind of my set, you know, 12
yards and they never caughtwind of me and I was constantly
doing my wind checks while I wassitting in stand.
I'd kind of put it out towardsthe edge of the stand or the
blind to see where the wind wasblowing.
But there's a certain point andit's, I would say, 20 yards, 25
yards if I go closer to that,the edge of that drainage, and
(08:32):
the wind shifts direction.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sucks it right down there.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, and we'll talk about wind vacuums and that
effect in a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
But yeah, that really taught me bring it every time,
because I need to know where thewind's going yeah, yeah, and
that's that's the point I'mmaking is, you're two years into
this and you already realizethe importance of needing to
know where the wind.
I've got some guys.
I've met guys that have beendoing hunting, you know, decades
(09:02):
and they still don't believethe whole wind thing.
They think it's just a bigfarce and and that you know deer
and elk don't care and theycan't smell you and anything
like this.
And it's like I go back to whatI you know.
Well, if you're not feelingtags, you know well then you got
to start.
You got to start looking atsomething you're doing.
You know what I mean.
You got to start knocking downsome things and eliminating some
(09:24):
factors as to why this is notworking out for you.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And I guess it would also depend on what you're
hunting.
Deer and elk, of course, BearGreat sense of smell.
All of those, I imagine coyote.
If you're hunting coyote, thatthey're going to win.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I think weapon plays a huge role in it too.
Weapon plays a huge role in ittoo.
Some guys feel like, becausethey're shooting a modern
firearm and their range is somuch greater than that of of you
know, like an archer or even amuzzle loader you know that they
don't feel like they need topay attention to it as much.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, but I know one of the things like turkey
hunters scent doesn't matter.
Right, right.
When you're turkey hunting.
So if you were, if you'd grownup turkey hunting and not hunted
anything else, you might bewalking into a situation where
this is a new thing that youactually have to consider that
you didn't have to consider frombefore.
(10:15):
And I don't know about catsthey don't smell as well as Cats
.
Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, do they?
Yeah, oh okay.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, they're really good nose.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, yeah, see.
Oh yeah, oh, do they.
Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, they'rereally good nose.
Okay, yeah, see, I didn't knowabout that.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I've never hunted cats and that's the thing.
Most of your ungulates and mostof your predators, that's the
way it is Okay, you know, andthey rely heavily on their nose.
Anybody that runs hounds of anykind, whether it's beagles, you
know, co bear hounds, whateverknows that.
Yeah, those dogs don't operateon sight.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
No.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It's all about scent you know, yeah, and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, so let's dig into upwind and downwind hunting
a little bit more here.
So how do we hunt where itrelates to upwind and downwind,
just real basic here.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Are you talking deer or are you talking elk?
I would say there's a differencewell, you know most guys want
to run and gun for elk okay, andso they.
You're constantly, constantlychecking that wind because you
know you want to keep the windin your face.
You want to hunt into the windin the mornings, yeah, you know,
and obviously in the evenings,but the mornings is generally
(11:23):
your longer hunt if you're, ifyou're calling and bugling and
all that stuff, and you'reconstantly checking that wind,
trying to keep it in your favor.
And then when you get a bull,that's hot and you're working
him, you know that he's going totry and circle to get the wind
on you.
Okay.
Every time.
So you have to play that littlechess match where you're riding
that wave, where it's right onthe edge of where you're safe,
(11:45):
but you got to keep because he'sgoing to try and circle you.
So you know if you're theshooter, because he doesn't know
where you're at, the caller'spulling him past you so you have
to.
You're between the caller andthe herd bull.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Or the bull period.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So, and so these some things are going, and I know
you've described a lot when youwent to Eastern Oregon, and so
the caller is always behind youfor when the person doing the
bugling or a cow called.
Usually it's bugling.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It's whatever that bull will respond to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay, so in those types of well actually and this
is getting off- well, I supposeit's related to hunting the wind
.
Yeah, and this is getting off.
Well, I suppose it's related tohunting the wind.
But, why, and honestly I knowthis is a safety issue, but why
wouldn't?
If the bull is going to circlearound you, why wouldn't the
(12:37):
person calling be in front ofyou so that when it circles
behind him, it then comes infront of the shooter?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Because he's circling to get the wind in his favor.
He wants to wind to make surethat that's another cow or bull
that's calling to him.
Okay, that it's not a hunter,you know.
And then the guy, that's so ifyou're not the caller, you're
the shooter.
You're not going to make toomuch sound unless, for some
reason, you know, you get bustedor something happens and you
(13:04):
start cow calling and he'sresponding to you now instead of
the caller behind you.
You still I mean, this hashappened a half dozen times to
me, you know and another bullcomes in, quiet, you know.
And so I've been the caller andhad bulls come in on me there
and I got my shooters out infront of me, you know.
And so it's just like blacktail, it's just like big bucks.
(13:26):
The wind is everything.
You can fool their eyes, youcan fool their ears, but you
cannot fool their nose, and theyknow that, and that's their
number one line of defense.
That's what they're going tofall back on every single time.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So if you're hunting, when you have a caller, someone
calling for you, and you'rehunting elk are.
Do you ever do you take wind inconsideration as far as where
you each of you place?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
yourselves.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Oh, absolutely, okay, absolutely and I know there's
times where you're doing likethe run and gun uh-huh thing
with elk, but I know you've alsodone created sets for elk, you
know, for a long time when youwere hunting outside of starkey
there, and so I mean that wouldbe potentially a little easier
maybe to have your where.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Well and it's funny that we're talking about this,
because thermals play such ahuge role, especially when
you're doing so I would run andgun in the morning and I would
sit and stand at night.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In the evenings rather, and the evening hunt was
always really quick becausethose bulls don't get those cows
up and moving until thethermals have shifted most of
the time.
Okay, until they're really,really hot and then they'll
scream all day long Okay, pushthem around.
But so the evening hunttypically is like 20, 30 minutes
just before dark.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
But so you're constantly and the thing is, is
that where you're wanting topull these elk into, it's great
at three, four o'clock in theafternoon, because then you know
the wind is blowing up and it'snot going toward them or
anything, at least where youknow where I would set up and it
was fine.
But then when the evening come,you know, and the thermal
shifted, well, now it's blowingdown where I don't want it to go
(15:01):
.
So it was always.
It was a real fine line.
It was really hard at times andat times, you know, it just
seemed like it always worked out.
But yeah, thermals played abigger role in that than just
the afternoon regular prevailingwind, simply because I was
waiting for that thermal toshift.
Okay, and that's what got thoseelk up and moving.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
So next question is how should I be entering my spot
or my set?
Or how should I be entering myset or spot and stock related to
upwind or downwind?
I mean, is it where you alwayswant to keep it when you're
coming in?
Where you're downwind of yourset?
I mean, what happens?
And I'm thinking about this.
(15:41):
I hunted my spot my first yearwhere if I wanted to be upwind
of my kill site, I would havehad to cross over the transition
zone Right.
The game trail that I washunting off of.
So I'm spreading my scentthrough that trail to get to the
optimal spot, right, right, soyeah, how are we supposed to
(16:05):
figure out those situations?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So that's a good question by an Ozonics.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Honestly, that's what saved me last year.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Right, right, but you're still walking in and most
guys don't have the Ozonicsgoing while they're walking in.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But I tell the guys that come to the classes and
whatnot that that dominant buckis going to tolerate so much of
your scent.
Yeah.
Okay, and he's patterning youjust as much as you're
patterning him.
Okay, and it would be the same,like back when we used to be
able to bait bears.
It was the same thing, they'repatterning you.
So you would do the same thingagain and again and again.
(16:40):
It would just be ritualistic,you know, and you wanted like,
okay, I'm going to ride myfour-wheeler in and I'm going to
be whistling.
Once you did it, once you didit the same every single time.
That way that bear got used tothe routine.
He'd hear you come in, he wouldhear you leave.
You know he would hear thefour-wheeler come in, he would
hear the four-wheeler leave,hear you whistling or whatever
(17:01):
you know.
And you would spend the sameamount of time every time you
would do the exact same thing,whether it's check your camera
at this point.
Do you know your scents?
Whatever, it's the same withbucks they're patterning you and
they're going to allow so muchof that scent.
Yeah.
So I'm not too worried about myscent blowing into the core area
when I'm going in to do myscents.
(17:23):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, like I do and then do mysense, check my cameras, check
my dripper, all that stuff, andthen walk out.
That's different than if I wantto go hunt.
So on the days that I want togo hunt, I want to slip in there
as quickly and as quietly as Ican and I want that wind to be
in my favor because I want toget in stand or in the blind or
(17:45):
whatever before.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, so would you potentially have two, if it's?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
possible, two setups, two ways to get into your set.
Okay, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Okay, and I know that that, and eventually I'll go
back to that first place that Iwas hunting Although I'm
probably going to move around atmy hilltop set, but where I
hunted last year my halfway setthe wind was just perfect.
I mean, every time I walked in,the wind was always blowing in
my face the whole time, thewhole way in, and I'm like, okay
(18:20):
, this is a great spot becauseof that.
So, yeah, but eventually I'mgoing to go back because I want
to hunt Anakin.
I'm going to go back to thatspot, and I will deal with winds
that shift a lot more right,swirl, uh things like that, and
I.
One of the things I did learn,though, is in the morning, they
were usually moving uh, I'mtrying to think, I think they
(18:43):
were moving more east to west,and it might have been more
thermals, and then in theafternoon, they shifted in west
east, so they would come out onone side.
There was a bedding area abovethis swamp, and so in the
morning they would come in onone side of the swamp and in the
(19:04):
evening they would go back inon the other side of the swamp
because they would be catchingthe wind of the swamp.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Right, right, and that's the main thing that we
need to realize as hunters isthat these deer elk, whatever
the animal is, they don't justmeander.
There is a purpose toeverything they do, because it's
always about survival.
And when you stop and think ofit like that, then you realize
that it's not by chance thatthey're on this trail.
They know exactly what they'redoing.
(19:34):
It's all about staying alive,it's all about avoiding
predators, so they're using thatwind all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Okay, so you mentioned earlier about wind
moving in layers, so why wouldit be important to get into a
different layer of wind?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, so that's a good question, because I feel
like that's the main reason whyI enjoy tree stand or tree
saddle hunting so much Becauseof the confidence that I have.
Once I get, say, 20 to 24 feetup, I feel like I'm in another
wind layer and I feel like myscent is being carried over them
(20:11):
99.9% of the time.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, I mean I still use an Ozonics and all and
that kind of stuff, but foryears before I even had that,
you know, I would still get uphigh and it just brings a
feeling of confidence over meLike I'm in another wind layer.
That's above and I feel likeit's about 15 feet.
12 to 15 feet down to theground is about where I feel
like that's about 15 feet.
12 to 15 feet down to down tothe ground is about where I feel
(20:36):
like that's the first layerthat's the first layer, okay and
I feel like if you're, ifyou're in that layer, then
you've really really gotta, youknow, be on top.
Not that you don't have toanyway, but you, I mean you just
gotta be on your game all thetime scent control and big time
movement and yeah there's a lotaffected.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And, and I know, when I was reading these articles,
the image came to my mind thatand this is I do a rafting trip
every year with my family and if, say, there's a big rock in the
middle of this river, ifthere's two feet of water over
this rock, you'll see theeffects of it and it'll bump up
(21:15):
and it'll drop down, but itwon't churn.
That you'll see up near the top.
Now if there's only six inchesof water going over that rock,
when it goes down on the backside, the water starts churning.
So it's that different.
It's the same thing with thewater versus the air.
You have to get higher than thechurn of that water.
(21:37):
And when we talk about thermals, one of the things that we saw
are the kind of the wind tunnelsthat can be created from that.
But getting above that wherethe air churns, and then they
can pick up your scent, Right.
So, yeah, you getting up high,kind of fits in.
That's when you were telling meabout that.
That's what, how it made senseto me Right.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And what's funny is so I go to Kansas every year, or
at least every year that I drawand I tree stand hunt down
there, but I mean the trees areso much smaller and it's just
like you know and there's whitetail running everywhere, but I
mean it's just that much moredifficult.
I come back home and it's likewe got these big fir trees and
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So I get up there and I'm like, yeah, this is so much
easier than Kansas, so but yeah, Okay, so let's move into
thermals and talking about those, this was interesting, so we
read these articles and it kindof of it didn't jibe with what
you knew about thermals yeah,well, and I the way they worded
it made it really confuse it,because it made it sound like
(22:41):
they were saying that morning up, evening down is the basic that
I took away from it
Speaker 3 (22:48):
right, which is right , yeah, which which is right.
But the way that that theyworded it, it was like okay, so
what they're saying, and and theway that it came across to me
that they were saying that youknow that cold thermals rise and
that warm thermals fall, andthat's the exact opposite of of
the hillsides or anything likethat.
It's daybreak, so you can seeand everything but the thermals.
(23:17):
Until that sun comes up,they're still going down.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and it's whatever, and one of the things
that just popped into my head isa lot of those articles were
talking about whitetail, whichmeans they're talking about
different areas of hunting thataren't the Pacific Northwest.
There's a few spots that areflat around here, but for the
most part we're a very hillycountry, absolutely.
And so it's just very different.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, these are mountains, these are mountains
compared to what people in theMidwest are used to.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, Slopes, small slopes over there, yeah.
So whatever ground warms upfirst, that air is going to rise
, correct.
So something has to fill thatvoid.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That space, yep.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, and so that's going to start pulling in.
So if it's, say, a south-facingslope, tell me if I'm wrong
here.
A south-facing slope that'sgoing to warm up first, correct,
so the thermals might be movingup there, but on the
north-facing slope, on the otherside of that drainage, where
there's no sun hitting it,that's cold, it's still going to
be moving down RightPotentially.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Right, okay, and the evidence in that is your
south-facing slopes green upfirst.
Yeah.
Because they get the mostsunlight, especially this time
of year Springtime.
We've got turkey season comingup, we've got spring season
coming up, we got spring bearcoming up.
You want to focus onsouth-facing slopes because they
get the most sunlight, so theyget the first sunlight, they get
the most sunlight, and sothey're going to green up
(24:43):
quicker, they're going to warmup quicker.
The animals are going to comeout there.
They're going to sit there inthe sun and warm up a little bit
, versus a north-facing slope,which is going to get very
little sunlight, especially thistime of year, and so the
thermals are going to be thatwind is going to be cold.
It's going to want to go downall the time.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, okay.
So one of the things as we werereading and I will actually, in
the description I will type outall these articles that I read
there's one in particular, and Ican't remember the website, but
it had information talkingabout vacuum effect, talked
about a corkscrew, so those windtunnels and what brought this
(25:24):
on.
So we have a listener and hewas actually at our woodland
class.
His name's Race, hi Race, howare you?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
doing?
How are you doing Race?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So he had asked me about a hunting spot and so this
is kind of because of that.
But he was showing me his spot,that he was hunting, and he was
talking about ridgelines andwhere should I hunt?
And that's actually whatspurred this episode, because I
was thinking the winds and thetime of day affected a lot of
(25:52):
where he might hunt, because hepointed out where he'd seen a
big buck.
Okay and so.
But it's figuring out wherehe's going to be in the morning,
where he's going to be in theevening, all of that, or for
those afternoon hunts.
But one of the things that wecame across is the thermal
tunnels.
So this was a combined effectof prevailing wind.
So maybe a sharper hillside onone side, bigger angle of slope,
(26:16):
degree of slope versus more ofa flatter, gentler slope on the
other side.
And maybe the prevailing windsare blowing up over the top of
that and if you have, as it goesover and there might be, you
know the thermals when they'recoming up, but there's a
prevailing wind that's blowing,but thermals coming up it
(26:40):
creates a corkscrew.
Right.
So the wind thermals coming uphits that wind coming up over
the top of that ridge and itcreates a wind tunnel effect.
And you have talked aboutduring locating that.
They love benches, they lovehanging out at that three
quarter of the way up thehillside.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Right Dominant buck.
Typically, when they bed in theopen, especially during early
season and whatnot, or if theyfind a thick spot on the
hillside, they will bed threequarters of the way up a hill or
up a ridge Because of that windtunnel that you're referring to
.
It brings the scent over thetop, brings it right down to
(27:22):
them.
Yeah.
And it seems counterintuitive tosay that it brings it down to
them.
But, like you're describinghere the way the wind comes over
the top and then combines withthe air that's on the other side
, hot and cold hot and cold.
It causes that wind tunnel andso it starts pulling that air
down and around and it brings itright down to them.
So they're watching their back.
(27:42):
Without having to watch theirback, they can tell what's
coming from above them and theycan focus on what's below them
as far as the visual side of it.
But you know, because it's's awind tunnel, because it's up and
down, the wind is being broughtup to them as well.
Yeah so there is that sweet spoton that ridge that those bucks
will bed.
So the way to approach them isnot from the top or the bottom,
(28:04):
but to side hill them.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
But it's exactly why they bed down right there.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So, and yeah, if, if, and they can, if they're three
quarters of the way up, and thatway they can smell everything
below them.
They can smell everything abovethem and if they catch wind of
a predator, whether that's ahuman or some other, a cat or a
bear or something, they couldstep just down below that wind
tunnel.
If they don't smell it, theyknow that it's up above them, or
(28:30):
they could just step up to thetop of that ridge.
If they don't smell, they know,they know that it's up above
them, or they could just step upto the top of that ridge If
they don't smell it.
They know that the smell wascoming from below them.
One of the things.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And it's a very minimal amount of effort to get
the answer.
They're trying and that's whatguys need to understand is that
they're there again because ofsurvival, but it's very little
effort for them to determinewhere it's coming from and
escape right away.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, so one of the things and I tried to research
this and I don't know what youthink about this, but so
thinking of, and when we say itcreates a wind tunnel, but I was
wondering about like acorkscrew, so thinking of a
tornado you know it sucks thingsup from the ground to the top
(29:16):
of the tornado, from the groundto the top of the tornado.
So I was wondering if thosetunnels work from, maybe, say,
one edge to the other.
Is it like if there's a bottomand a top of that tunnel Right
right, and so if they catch anysmell from the bottom of it, if
that's a thing?
So you said you want toside-hunt them, side-heal them?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're walking in, their tunnel
and it want to side-hunt them,side-heal them.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're walking in their tunnel
and it's corkscrewing to them,it would seem like it might pull
your scent towards them and see.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I honestly I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I mean I can honestly say I don't know.
On that one I'd be guessing,Because I guess I always thought
of it like the eye of a storm,where it's calm inside the eye
of the storm.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Okay, and that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You know what I mean, when it's like well, okay, so
yeah, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But thinking about that, like if you, let's say,
you were spot and stalking andif you kept blowing them out,
that might be something toconsider.
Oh, absolutely, and I wonderedthat because I think so.
That description I justdescribed is one of my sets, my
Riverside set.
Okay, so I've created a andI've never really gone beyond
(30:34):
just setting up some cameras,maybe throwing out some minerals
and things like that.
But I've got a couple of reallynice bucks on there and they
show up the same week each year,but that's it.
I've never seen them except forthat week, 10 days.
Okay.
So I know that the bedding areais up somewhere else, but fairly
close by there.
They have a small range, butthe way that the wind is always
(30:57):
blowing it's coming down fromI'm at the kind of the end sort
of the hillside, but it's alwaysblowing like downhill out away
from that hillside and, like Isaid, steep on one side and flat
up at the top or a real gradualslope up at the top.
And so I thought, well, the waythe wind is moving where I'm at
(31:21):
being at one end, that just Ikind of wondered if that was
sucking the air over to me.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Right, it makes sense .
I mean, it could be very easily.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And so.
But the thing is is to get tothe area that I think he's at.
That means I have to go to theend where the air and the the
scent is being sucked from right, you know.
So it's made me wonder about,like boy, how would I?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
right, because I could get in there from my side,
but it's not as practical stufflike that makes me think that
these animals are a lot moreintelligent than people give
them credit for you know what Imean, yeah I mean because it's
like when you, when they get,when you're busted by them
hardly ever is it because ofwhat they hear or see.
They typically it's it's thescent.
(32:07):
They've smelled you long beforeyou ever showed up.
They knew you were there.
They just thought if theystayed still, you know it would
be fine, but you proved thatwrong and yeah, so now they bust
out of there you know theysmell the Doritos on your breath
.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, the Little Debbies, as the memes all say.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
The Zingers or the Little Debbies.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
But thinking about all of things that you know we
put together to do a hunt,that's just another part of the
puzzle.
Oh, absolutely.
How do I get in there?
And, like you said, they couldtolerate a little bit of my
scent.
Well, if I go in in the morningand the air is real still and
that the thermals haven't kickedin, I could potentially get in
(32:47):
there and get up above the windin a tree stand or ladder stand
or something, but that'd have tobe a morning Like.
By afternoon I potentially thatcould make my hunt that much
harder.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, you have to figure out another way.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I mean it just, and that's what makes you know that
they're really smart.
Yeah.
He's there for a reason.
So, it wasn't by accident thathe picked that spot.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Anyway, but that was kind of a real thing that it
talked about on those hillsidesand so I wondered about that
corkscrew effect.
But it also talked about windvacuums.
So as you have a drainage orsome sort of valley headed down
with fingers coming into thatdrainage, right, so other, maybe
(33:33):
creeks, feeding into that.
Well, as wind travels down thatdrainage it sucks the air in
from those other side drainagesor those fingers coming off of
it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
It pulls air that you normally wouldn't think down in
there and it pulls it right tothem.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And wherever that wind goes, that's where your
scent is going.
Right.
And that was one of the things.
Going back to my halfway setthat I hunted last year and I
talked about that, thedifference was 20 yards between
the wind blowing directly intomy set.
So according to the drainage itwas probably blowing.
If that was midnight, sixo'clock on a clock, I was
(34:13):
probably about eight o'clock atan angle and from the drainage.
So I was at an angle to thedrainage and we actually didn't
even talk about angles to thewind, but then it was blowing
directly in my face.
Now if I move 20 yards to myright, that vacuum effect kicked
in, the wind blew, was suckingright down into that drainage.
(34:33):
So when I put out actually Iput out some scents or some
minerals, I put it right on theedge so that all that smell
would go into there and go downinto that drainage in that big
swamp area down below Right,because that made sense.
You know I wanted that scent tocarry, but I don't want that
during my hunting season.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And it's funny because it don't matter what
time of year.
Yeah what time of year?
Yeah, with the, whether it'sfall, winter, spring, summer,
there's a line you know thatthat that is on like these
ridges, these little fingerridges, where it doesn't matter
how warm or cold it is, thatwind is getting it sucked down
into that valley and I've had,like logging roads do the same
(35:13):
thing, old skidder roads, yeah,uh, I've.
I can think of one right nowthat I used to bear hunt on, and
it didn't matter what time ofyear, whether it was hot in
middle of August, 95 to 100degrees out, that wind always
blew downhill.
I could never approach thatfrom uphill because the gate was
(35:34):
uphill.
The old skidder road wentdownhill and every single time
it's just something about thetopography that made that wind.
It didn't matter how hot it was, warm outside, it would always
suck it downhill and I wasalways getting busted.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
And that's that halfway set.
It doesn't matter how the windis blowing, it's always blowing
in the same direction in thatparticular spot.
It's always blowing in the samedirection in that particular
spot Right.
It's always traveling downhill.
It's always traveling down thatdrainage and I can be standing
in.
Now it can be blowing a littlestronger at times, or up above
(36:13):
the ridgetops it's blowing in acompletely different direction,
but down where I'm at it alwaysbehaves the same and it might be
that down that swamp it's a lotmore open up there.
So a lot more sunlight's goingto hit that and if that air is
rising because it's warmer,something's got to fill that
void and it's going to path ofleast resistance.
So that's why it gets suckeddown, that drainage, okay.
(36:38):
So last thing we want to talkabout here is the wind speed for
the hunts, because one of thearticles talked about what's
good wind speed for deer, andI'll just read these off real
quick Zero to four, deermovement is usually highest and
senses are not significantlydisrupted.
Zero to four miles an hour.
Five to fourteen good forhunters as it can mask sounds
(37:01):
and sense without limiting deermovement.
15 and up winds begin to bedisruptive to deer senses and
movement will decline or stopcan be good for spot and stock
and deer are more stationary.
So and I think.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
What do you think about that?
So as as here, as far as heregoes, I agree 100%.
Okay.
But like I've hunted, like Isaid, North Dakota, Kansas, a
lot of high winds there and it'ssomething that's just a part of
the everyday occurrence there.
You know, especially NorthDakota, there's always a 10 to
15 mile an hour wind minimum outthere, you know, because
(37:36):
there's nothing to stop it.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Nothing to stop it, nothing to stop it yeah, you
know.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And kansas, I mean, I remember the first year I
hunted kansas good friend ofmine, steven freeze, j&m
outfitters and we got up onemorning and it was, you know, 25
to 30 mile an hour gusts andeverything.
And I was thinking, well, we'relosing a day of hunting.
And they looked at me like, oh,you're crazy.
No, today's the day.
And I'm like, what are youtalking about, you know?
(38:00):
And they're like, oh, you'regonna see a ton of deer today
with this wind, they're gonna bemoving.
And and, uh, man, they wereright.
I went out and I saw buck afterbuck after buck and uh, it was,
it was crazy.
They were so not nervous, theywere so relaxed and just, man,
(38:20):
they were, it was the calmestI'd ever seen, whitetail, you
know.
And they were like, yeah,because of the wind, they just
kind of it's kind of sensoryoverload, and so they just
they're more dependent on theireyes than anything and and they
just, yeah, they can't smellanything and so they just kind
of, I don't know, vapor lock onstuff yeah, it overloads them
yeah, and, and so I've sat outhere in windstorms and I've and
(38:42):
I've, I've seen deer movement,you know, and I've actually
killed big, uh, big buck in in awindstorm and stuff.
But it gets a little scarier outhere.
Yeah, you know where the 15foot tree going over versus the
40 foot tree going over, I'vehad, I can think of one set that
I didn't go out on thewindstorm and I'm glad I didn't.
(39:02):
I came in the next day and thefir tree next to the one that I
was sitting in went over and itwas leaning partially against
the platform of my stand andagainst the tree across the way
and I was like like, oh my gosh,you know.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
That would be freaky yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
So it's a little different here as far as that
goes, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, in one of my spots that I created a kind of a
throw together, I put one ofthose little it wasn't a full
ground, blind, it was just oneof those little camouflage
shields, blind things that yousit behind and I put out a
little like a turkey chair, 15yards off my set by a tree.
And you know, I created this incase I was going to hunt their
(39:46):
set and I didn't.
And when I went back out acouple of weeks later we'd had a
big windstorm and one of thethings is there's always
branches falling there, bigalders, big giant alders, which
those just fall over.
You know, yeah yeah you push onthem and they fall over.
So I went out.
There were three, probably 60foot.
It was a clump of fir trees,but three of them had fallen,
(40:10):
two in front, right in front ofthe tree I was next to one right
behind.
I actually had to climb overall this stuff to get to dig my
stuff out and yeah, and therewere like branches everywhere
and I'm like I would have gottenkilled if I had not.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Yeah, the wife has been upset with me a couple of
times and stuff, and it's gottena little hairy out there.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
So okay, so, but overall for those wind speeds,
yeah, overall I agree.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, especially the 5 to 14.
Uh-huh, that's a great time togo out, because it does.
You know, it just carries yourscent gone.
Yeah, you know which is ideal.
Yeah, you know, real calm daysare really difficult, real
difficult.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Well, that's all the stuff.
I had Any other thoughts abouthunting the wind, thinking about
the wind.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Just yeah, it's key, it's critical.
You know we see it on TV allthe time with the whitetail
hunters and stuff.
And well, you know, I didn't goin because the wind was bad, I
didn't hunt this spot becausethe wind was bad or whatnot, and
you know, you said it.
We use Ozonics a lot, a lot,yeah, and there are other
products on the market, you know, from Nose Jammer to other
(41:22):
ozone generators and stuff likethat.
But point being is you have toaccount for the wind, you just
have to.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It's foolish not to yeah, so anyway, but always when
you're going out, bring yourwind check and check it often,
like if you walk 20 yards, checkit again.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
You can never do it too much.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, because, like I said, 20 yards it can
completely shift on you and thatcan help decide where you're
going to go and where you'regoing to set up.
But anyway, that's all we gotfor this week, and so we will
see you all next week.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.