September 8, 2025 • 30 mins
The dream of hunting your own land captivates many outdoorsmen, but what happens when your property is only 22 acres? Can you truly create a thriving deer habitat that supports quality hunting opportunities?
Responding to an email from Keith in Northern California, we dive deep into the science of deer behavior and habitat management for small properties. The secret lies in understanding the three critical components that make any deer habitat viable: food, cover, and breeding opportunities. Blacktail deer typically establish remarkably small home ranges—studies show they often live their entire lives within just 51 acres—making small property management not only possible but potentially highly productive.
We explore how mature bucks establish core areas in the thickest cover available, spending 90-95% of their time in just 30% of their range. Creating these security zones through strategic plantings like switchgrass can transform even modest acreage into deer magnets. Rather than thinking like a hunter with a one-season mentality, we encourage adopting the mindset of a "deer farmer"—someone cultivating habitat, monitoring deer patterns, and making improvements based on their behavior over multiple years.
The podcast also addresses whether to hunt your developing property immediately or wait while improving habitat. Our suggestion? Do both. Run trail cameras to catalog deer even if not actively hunting, while also exploring nearby public land opportunities that other hunters might overlook by focusing too heavily on clear-cuts rather than thick cover.
For those managing their own hunting properties, this episode provides actionable insights on creating sustainable deer habitat that will provide hunting opportunities for generations to come. We wrap up with an important update for Washington hunters regarding synthetic scent regulations that have changed since last season.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week we are going to start.
Actually, first thing I want tosay is congratulations to Cully
Scroggins.
He on opening day.
He attended our class lastspring Yep and opening day got a
very nice 4x4, eye guards, nicebuck real heavy and the funny
(00:25):
thing is it still looked like itwas pretty young.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Beautiful buck, though Nice dark antlered.
Got it done.
Opening day Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Congratulations.
We will probably have him onSometime after elk season.
We have three episodes withSmokey Cruz that we will be
playing after in a few weeks ofDave and I here we want to give
you some fresh content for theseason before we really get into
season rifle and all that andthen we'll play Smokey once
October hits they're prettyclose and then we'll get to
(00:54):
doing those success stories andeverything.
So anyway, we're starting off.
We got an email from Keith downin California and there was a
lot to unpack with this email,so I thought it would just make
a really great episode to talkthis all out.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah it was a really good email as far as man, just
the way he delved intoeverything and was really honest
about his questions.
That's what I appreciated.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, just to give you some highlights.
I live in Northern California.
I bought some property that is22 acres this year and want to
create a good habitat so that Ican hunt.
Here on my land I have starteda food plot, created a water
hole, made a mock scrape, put upscent and doing what I can to
improve the habitat over time.
I'm in the foothills at about1,700 feet.
(01:40):
My property drops down 200 feetto a seasonal creek that is
currently dry.
I have trail cams up and so farhave seen what I think is the
same doe and two fawns all overthe property many times, but saw
only one nice buck once sinceor in July.
Based on only seeing that one,my question is if you think I
(02:01):
should focus on hunting my landthis season or if that seems
like a waste and I should focuson finding public land while I
build my habitat and get morebucks in.
The public lands around heredon't feel too promising.
Low harvest rates, lots ofpressure and takes up even more
time with travel and I'm alreadylimited in hunting time to
mostly weekends and balancingthat with family time.
(02:23):
In California our season ends acouple of days into November,
so not sure how much the pre-rutand rut activity may bring some
bucks in and also, I thinkthere's only one doe.
So again, not sure how muchthings will improve in the next
couple months as the weatherchanges and the rut nears.
Just asked for insights for allof that.
(02:43):
So, with looking at all of this, want to start out.
So what are for a habitat tosucceed or to be viable in
supporting deer activity?
What needs to be present?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So, in my opinion, I think that there are three
things that you need.
You need to have food, coverand the opportunity to breed.
Now, of those three, I wouldsay the two most important are
the food and the cover.
Yeah.
The opportunity to breed.
Bucks will travel likewhitetails.
(03:22):
Will go seven miles to find adoe in standing, yeah, like
whitetails will go, you know,seven miles to find a doe and
standing yeah, a blacktail.
In our area.
They've done studies and manypeople have heard me say this
that they found out they livethe entirety of their lives.
Most of them this is like 99.9.
You're always going to have anoutlier live within 51 acres and
I think if cover gets sparse,that range gets larger yeah so
(03:43):
if you're living in an areawhere there's not a lot of thick
stuff, I think those bucksadapt to that and increase their
range.
Big bucks want to be in thickcover they don't use the same
trails does and small bucks do.
They always want to stick tothe cover, and if the car, if
the cover is sparse or far andfew between then, they've got to
(04:04):
travel to get to that cover.
Because that's where they'regoing to spend the majority of
their life is in that thickstuff.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, it's like 90, 95% is spent in 30% of that
range.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
So if they have to cover,always equals food, because
cover is, whether it's jackfuror jonfur or alder patches or
whatever.
I mean you've got all thesebushes and shrubs and stuff
inside of that and that's food.
Thick salal or Salmon berries,blackberries, all of that stuff,
(04:34):
even viney maples, the freshgreen shoots on viney maples.
To me the two most importantare cover and I would say it
would go in this order cover andfood.
Cover equals equals safety, notjust from hunters but from
weather as well and potentiallypredators.
Yeah, yeah, so those two wouldbe the ones that I would say,
but you need some kind ofculmination of the three to hold
(04:58):
on to good habitat.
The thicker the cover, the morefood you're going to have.
The more deer you're going todraw in.
The more cover you have, themore safe these deer are going
to feel and they're going tohave.
The more deer you're going todraw in, the more cover you have
, the more safe these deer aregoing to feel and they're going
to stay there.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, At some point I was doing some research on the
51 acres.
I think we were trying to findthe study that Washington did
that led to that information.
We were having a hard timefinding that study but when I
was doing the research one bitof information said they can
have a range of 600 to 1,200acres but state of Washington
(05:32):
their study average of 52 acres.
But I also saw that up inAlaska that some of the Sitka
blacktail can have a range aslittle as 20 acres.
So whether it's on an island orbut they have everything.
I think that's what it is isthey have all three of those
components available in a smallarea but that being temperate
(05:56):
rainforest and a lot of ourcoast all the way down to
Northern California on the coastfalls into that category.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Still very thick Yep to Northern.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
California on the coast falls into that category.
Still very thick, yep, yeah,but if you know and we don't
know Northern California as faras like, is it on the Huayrica
side or is it on the Eureka side, you know, is it on the coast
side or is I-5 corridor thinking?
And so from what I saw, that600 acre range seemed to imply,
from what I saw that 600-acrerange seemed to imply, from what
(06:27):
I read, that that was maybeRoseburg South.
So when it really opens up, itgets hot.
They might have to walk furtherto get to a water source.
They might have to walk furtherto get into a really thick
patch.
You know, it opens up more downthere, it becomes more of an
issue down there, right, right,but it's still.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
They still have their core area.
Yeah, you know, and thatdoesn't change, and that doesn't
even change for whitetail ormule deer.
Those bucks still have a corearea and they'll spend the
majority of their life in thatcore area.
I think that it's a mistake forus to think that if we see that
buck out there in thesummertime, or if we see that
(07:10):
buck there in the off season,whether it's early spring or
whatnot, that he's not going tobe around when hunting season
comes.
I think a lot of guys make thatmistake, because nothing can be
further from the truth, becausethat buck, when he goes into his
rut, the first does he's goingto check are going to be the
ones in his core area, and then,after they've either all been
bred or he's figured out thatnone of them are in standing
(07:30):
estrus, then he wanders outsidethat core area.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, and why I wanted to also bring this up is
you have had some otheracquaintances who have bought
land and they want to hunt theirland.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That is like, I think , for any hunter to be able to
just To lock it up and keep itfor yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
To just be able to hunt your own land.
But is it possible on 22 acres?
Is that possible If they've gotfood plots out?
Well, there's a food source,water hole, so they've got one.
There's dough and a couple offawns walking, so there are does
available.
So I guess it just means thesecurity.
(08:09):
So is there some really thickstuff?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
that would be well, I mean it goes back to the
initial question.
Can I make this a piece ofproperty that holds deer and
keeps deer all year round, or isthis the the question?
Can I make this habitat goodenough that he makes his core
area here?
Yeah.
You know what I mean, becauseit's two different things.
The core area if you have fiveacres, you can make it so that's
(08:34):
his core area.
If you work on building thathabitat, can you make it so that
he solely stays on that fiveacres?
I doubt that, but I getapproached all the time with
guys that got property that arelike well, I want to kill a buck
on my property and they havefive acres, 10 acres, 20 acres.
I don't know that the size ofthe property makes a difference
(08:57):
as much as just approaching itwith realistic expectations.
Keith, here the guy who'semailed us says he has 22 acres.
Okay, so 22 acres.
He's seeing just that doe andtwo fawns.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And a buck once.
And a buck once.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Okay, so chances are that's not that buck's core area
, because you only saw him onceand you saw him in the
summertime when he was in velvet.
So, he's out in the open, youknow.
So unless you start puttingcameras in the thick spot, that
could be why he's not gettingpictures of that buck right now.
A lot of guys make that mistake.
We put cameras or mineral siteswhere we want the bucks to be,
(09:36):
but we don't pay attention tothe time of year that we do that
.
You know bucks they get on thatsummer pattern.
They don't want to be in thethick stuff because they're in
velvet, they don't want to hittheir antlers and stuff, so they
move to the more open stuff.
Well, guys put minerals andstuff in the thick stuff, hoping
that they'll get pictures ofthat buck.
Then they go all summer andthey got maybe one or two.
Yeah, he'll be there duringhunting season because it's a
(09:57):
different mode that those deergo into.
You know to say that the it'snot that difficult, but it does
take time.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So if the real thick stuff isn't there, it could
eventually be there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
There's a ton of things on the market that you
can plant Switchgrass, whichgrows man.
That grows up to like eightfoot tall, and it grows fast.
And that's great cover.
That's great cover in thesummertime cover from predators,
from weather and everything.
It grows back every year.
Yeah.
It provides a lot, and that'sagain one of the most important
(10:33):
things is cover.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So, as I was thinking about this, it's also not
knowing the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Does he have?
22 acres in a yeah, does thatbutt up against Weyerhaeuser?
Does that butt up against thetown poachers?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The urban, more urban land.
Do you have neighbors who havemaybe his quarry?
Let's?
You know what I mean urban,more urban land.
Do you have neighbors who havemaybe his quarry?
Let's say the quarry is on theneighbor's land.
Well, here's a chance to gomeet the neighbors and talk to
them about potentially huntingtheir property, right?
So there's that aspect.
Is there agriculture aroundthere, too, agricultural?
So maybe you're going to buildtheir little habitat where
(11:08):
they're going to go for coverand then when they're going out
feeding, they'll walk out intothe fields and start eating.
So you can, like you weresaying, there can be a big buck
on five acres.
You have the five acres in themiddle of a suburb, right, right
, nobody, you know urban bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But I just go back to realisticexpectations, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, so another thing I was thinking about.
So seeing the buck in July mademe think of two times.
This is the first year and youknow, if you buy property, that
sounds like a long-termcommitment to that piece of land
.
But with my deer two times onRiverside he came back the exact
same time the following year.
(11:51):
What was funny is I went outand ran since last year it was
in between modern and latemodern he had already walked
through that area and I neversaw him again.
He shows up at night duringmodern season.
I wonder what are the oddshe'll see that same buck walking
(12:12):
through?
Oh really high, because theyend up being like clockwork.
They're habitual like that andI did think if, if you've seen a
doe and two fawns and they'veand it's stayed that way
throughout summer, that's apretty good sign that there's
not a whole lot of predatorsaround there.
Every time I've seen two fawnsby the end of summer, there's
(12:34):
one fawn.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Because, the bear or cougar's gotten a hold of them,
or the coyotes yeah.
Yeah, bobcat, anything else.
If you saw one, doe thinkingabout that.
You saw a buck and maybe he'llcome passing through there again
because it's in his range.
Mm-hmm, he's proven that it'sin his range.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
He's proven that.
It's in his range.
Yeah, she's been bred obviouslybefore.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So if you have a doe and a couple of fawns or a doe
is just seeing one doe is thatenough to work that property as
far as, because you'll becreating an illusion if you
sense that there's more, does itseems like.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Right.
So, if you're asking me, isthat enough to bring a buck in
and to kill a buck on it?
Yes, if you're asking me, if Iwould do that, probably not, and
the reason is that I would wantto build it up.
You know does are just, they'reconfidence decoys.
You know, does are just, they'reconfidence decoys.
(13:33):
If I can build a herd of deerin that area through food plots,
generating cover, creatingedges, hinge cutting, planting
switchgrass and a feed andmaking a deer habitat, that's
what I would rather do.
And build a herd, and I thinkthe idea of having your own
property when you do that is sothat you can harvest an animal
(13:54):
every year from your property.
That's the dream, right?
I always wanted to hunt on myown land.
If you're going to do that,then build a deer herd.
Don't just build it for oneseason to get that one buck, but
build it so you can repeatedlycome back every year and have a
shooter to go after.
That's what we teach in ourclasses and in my seminars I try
(14:16):
and really push that to theforefront.
That that's what we are ashunters.
We're deer herders, deerfarmers, elk farmers, bear
farmers.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Preservationists, as Heather put it.
She's a preservationist.
She wants her grandkids to beable to hunt there.
If you want your grandkids tobe able to hunt that property,
you've got to build it up towhere it's sustainable.
So meaning like, if that doe,if one of those fawns is a buck
well, now you have a couple ofbucks in that area.
(14:46):
If he doesn't have any coversafety, he'll leave to go find
that.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So it might not end up being his range.
You've got to create the reasonfor him to stay, which can take
a while.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But it'll go if you put five years in on it.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And that's what I mean by a while.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You're going to end up with a deer.
If you really work at it, infive years you could have just
an outstanding piece of land fordeer habitat, and the deer will
come.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Depending on where you're at.
I just noticed this.
So I was filming some contentup one of my sets.
Remember you and I went inright after I first found my
halfway set and we walked in andthat skidder road was
completely clear.
There was no scotch broom on it.
You could see from one end downto the other.
That was early June when youand I went in.
(15:36):
I found it before that.
I think I found it May or Apriland then you and I went in,
maybe late May or early June andwide open.
But by the time I went back forseason there was scotch broom
all over that skidder runprobably up to four feet tall.
(15:56):
Maybe a couple that were fivefeet tall, but you could still
see from one end to the other.
Well, I just went back in thereand I haven't gone in there.
I put out minerals before theybanned them back in January,
february and I think the lasttime I was in on that set
because I went and pulledeverything.
It was in March, so I hadn'tbeen back in there in a few
(16:19):
months because there was noreason for me to go back in
there.
Well, I just went in to filmsome content and look things
over, kind of get my game planready for when season comes up.
Well, that Scotch B broom.
You can't see down that skidderroad anymore, because that
scotch broom is as tall as eightfeet, maybe even more in some
areas.
It wasn't there 14 months ago.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Like I said yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So there are certain things that just take off.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah Well, like you said, we live in a rainforest.
Yeah, so it's not like we'regoing drought to drought to
drought.
You know what I mean?
We're going to go nine monthsof rain you know, so it's going
to have plenty of water to grow.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Blackberry bushes, get in there.
Yeah, you're going to have somethick stuff real quick and I
don't know about how long ittakes Salal to.
I'm in a huge patch.
It's everywhere where I'm atit's super thick and it's like
seven feet tall in some places.
Yeah, and I had to go clear mytrail back into my set because
(17:26):
everything started to overgrowfrom last year and I don't know
how fast that grows.
But there's a lot of stuff thatyou can help things along, I
would think.
Right right.
So that was interesting becauseI was walking in there thinking
I'll still be able to see and Icouldn't.
I couldn't see from one end ofthe and I'm talking like 300
(17:47):
yards down this skidder roadthat I could see the whole way,
and now you can't.
You know, there's some placeswhere you're completely
surrounded by scotch broom thatyou can't see.
You could turn around 360 andyou're not going to see anything
anywhere around you becauseit's so tall and thick in there
now.
So what would you suggestbesides cover?
Do you think he should berunning pheromones once the rut
(18:11):
starts?
Like running California'ssynthetics only as well.
And so even if he weren't goingto hunt this year, do you think
he should work his set as if heis?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I would, aaron, because I like cataloging the
deer.
Yeah, you know, and especiallyif I find a young buck and I see
potential in that young buck, Imean lucky, I killed him.
Was it two years ago now?
Yeah.
I had watched him for four yearsbefore I finally decided to go
in and hunt him and to see theprogression of that buck.
For me, that's part of thiswhole thing.
(18:46):
We're deer farmers.
You're raising that deer, I'mputting out the minerals.
If I'm in a state that allowsit, I'm doing everything I can
to help him reach his maximumpotential, watching him go from
a young buck, letting him livethat full life and reaching that
maturity, and when I finallysay, okay, this is the year I'm
going to go after him, he'sfinally made the hit list.
It's just fun to have thathistory when you finally get an
(19:09):
opportunity to go after thatbuck.
But I would run it like I washunting it.
I wouldn't hunt it, but I wouldrun it like I was and then I
would just start cataloging deerand watching them grow, finding
out what doe if I had multipledoes in there finding out which
one has bucks, Because there'llbe those does out there that all
they ever have their offspringis always a buck yeah, that's
(19:30):
the doe I want to take care of Ithink just around your house
there's a doe we got one aroundthe house has bucks all the time
yep, every year she has twobucks yeah, because there's
button buck.
I I think this year we've seen abutton buck, a spike, a three
point and a forked horn, and wehad two yearlings that were
(19:50):
bucks, but one of them goteither the bobcat or the coyotes
got him, and then— One of themrather.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
One of the big ones from last year got hit down at
the end of the road, and therewas another, even bigger one.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He showed up.
We had no idea he was around.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
There's a ton of bucks that just hang out.
They had no idea he was around.
There's a ton of bucks thatjust hang out.
That's all they're having.
So she's busy Probably hidingout and stuff.
This also made me think aboutrunning the set.
You never know what's going toshow up.
The season and season is verydifferent down in California
because some places it startsmid-July but a lot of it is by
(20:27):
early August and it sounds likeit runs through early November,
first couple of days of November, whereas ours up here are
mid-December to late December.
Yeah, but we've had some setswhere last year I kept my sets
going all through late season,even archery, and into January,
(20:48):
just to see what shows up.
Right, that's where I sawSneaky Pete, which was one of
the two dominant biggest bucksthat come into that set.
Came in on the last day ofModern Rifle right after I shot
my first spike.
So if I just waited one moreday, one o'clock in the
afternoon.
(21:09):
But what's cool is I know he'llbe back next year and around the
same time.
It's one of those where thiscould be a year where I just eat
the tag because I want to focuson him, but even thinking about
just watching those bucks asthey grow, looking at these
bucks as they grow up year afteryear.
I've done that with Anakin.
I want to really run that oneset, my hilltop set with him
(21:31):
because I just want to see howhe's grown.
I didn't get a great picturelast year, but I think I know
the spot where they're going inand out of their bedding area
and it's 30 yards, 40 yards fromthe pullout at the gate.
So it'd be real easy to go inthere with a camera and run some
scents or do some synthetic notbaiting, but something like An
(21:54):
attractant, an attractant Nosecandy.
Is that what it's called?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, tinks has got nose candy now.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And it's funny you say that because last weekend I
spent a day out with Mike Dippo.
Mike and Dan Dippo are theknockaholics on Facebook and
Instagram.
Great guy, they're the foundersof the Archery Trader.
If you get a chance, go to that.
It's a great place to findarchery equipment.
But anyway, I spent theSaturday with him and was able
(22:21):
to kind of go over some stuffand you know he come to the
realization that it's not amatter no-transcript.
Well, I had the opportunity, Ichose not to, and maybe, but the
same way I am, we both getfixated on a buck and that's the
(22:42):
buck we want and we'll letother bucks walk, but that's our
hunt.
It's not everybody's hunt.
If that's not you, then you beyou If you want to shoot that.
But you're going to have theopportunities.
If you start becoming more of aconservationist and helping
that deer herd be healthy,helping that deer herd, you know
, be prosperous, and comfortthat they have around there as
far as breeding and food and allthat stuff, you're going to see
(23:05):
a significant jump in deeractivity if you just make a
little bit of efforts in thoseareas.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, one of the things.
Actually that would be a goodone.
So, keith, or any of ourlisteners, if you can still do
minerals and attractants, goback and listen to our episode
called Managing your Herd andthat'll give you an idea,
because you'll want to start inFebruary with putting out some
(23:32):
minerals, some attractants.
It's creating more of a draw toyour property and that's the
whole.
I think the whole next year.
That should be the goalcreating more of a draw to your
property over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And the biggest draw is going to be survival.
Yeah.
And really that's all thatyou're doing when you're putting
out minerals and creating coverand all that.
It's just about survival.
That's all that's on their mindall the time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
That's why they have the nose that they've got.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And so should he abandon his property and look on
the public lands.
Honestly, from what we'vetalked about, you should always
be doing that, absolutely,because you should always be
looking at at least two sets,because you never know what's
going to happen on one.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You always want to have a plan B.
Number one, number two when Istart looking at harvest reports
, I kind of look at that througha filter, in the sense that if
you stop and think about it, 90%, maybe even more than 90%, of
hunters are the guys that driveup a park and start glassing
clear cuts.
They want to hunt the cuts,whether they're driving in,
(24:40):
hiking in or riding a bike in.
You know, a lot of guys spend amajority of their time on clear
cuts and that's not what wehunt at all.
We don't even consider clearcuts.
We have multiple opportunitiesat bucks every year, and when I
say multiple, I think ouraverage pro staff, if they
wanted to, could probably killfive deer a year with the number
(25:00):
of bucks that come into oursets.
So when I see that number, I'mtaking into account well,
there's not a high harvest rate.
Are most of those guys huntingclear cuts?
Chances are, yeah, okay.
And.
I'm not necessarily beating thedeer with a clear cut.
Sometimes I'm beating the otherhunter to that deer.
I just happened to be there theone time he decided to come out
, or one of seven times hedecided to come out and it could
(25:23):
be a spike, it could be aforking horn, it could be
whatever.
So when I see that number onpublic land, that doesn't
discourage me.
I start looking more forhabitat.
I get on onyx.
I'm more interested in findingthe habitat.
We don't hunt private property.
I hunt either DNR state land orI'm on timberland that
everybody else gets to hunt, soI don't have any private
(25:43):
property to go in and stuff.
But you can attest to this aswell, aaron, because you're in
the same boat.
We go areas where there's notmany deer and everything, and we
start doing a set in there andall of a sudden we got deer
coming out our ears.
It's because we're hunting it adifferent way.
We're approaching it from anangle or a position of I don't
(26:04):
want to be by the clear cuts, Iwant to be where the thick stuff
is, and when you learn how todo that, you're going to find
there's a lot more deer outthere than you realize.
Number one.
Number two there's a lot morebig bucks out there than you
realize.
Number three you don't have togo very far in.
Yeah.
It changes the whole game.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, I mean I'm third year in and I've got three
sets at least a half dozenshooter bucks, a dozen bucks
period that I could go in andharvest.
It's areas that other guysaren't hunting or if they are,
they're walking by where I'm at.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, thinking it's too thick, it's unhuntable or
there's no deer in there.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Really good point, thinking it's too thick, it's
unhuntable or there's no deer inthere.
Yeah, really good point.
Anyway, one of the things Iwanted to bring up as we
replayed our episodes and itdidn't really dawn on me until
recently that was frominformation from last year and
that was pre-ban on synthetics,or pre-ban on urines and
pheromones that were glandularbased for Washington State, and
(27:09):
ban on baiting and everythingelse.
So please make sure that you'rereading and understanding your
regs in your area, because ittook six months for all of that
information to be outdated.
We had recommended James Valleybecause they were a very good
brand but they're not syntheticso you can't use them anymore.
I don't like saying that don'tuse this company, we just can't.
(27:32):
A lot of good companies, but Iknow Tinks and Conquest Sense.
They do very good synthetics.
That's what I think we're goingwith this year.
Just make sure that you knowwhat your laws and regs are in
your area.
We did confirm actually Davewent by the WDFW office today
synthetics are legal to use inWashington.
(27:56):
So just make sure you're evercalm your bedding pheromones and
your buck urine and doe urineare all synthetics.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So that was a Region 5 office that I went to and
spoke with two game wardens andone of the biologists there.
They confirmed it and thereason I did that because it is
a little confusing how they wordit.
We've had several people saywell, you can't use synthetics,
you can't use anything Straightout of the horse's mouth today
down there.
No, you can use it, it is legaland we still have that option.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Thank you for joining us again this week.
Keith, thank you for sending inthat question.
It was great Dig into that.
That was a lot of reallyhelpful information for a lot of
guys.
We always welcome yourquestions.
If it's enough where we can diginto, we'll do an episode, or
we'll answer at the start of theepisode or just hit reply.
This was one that I thought weneed to do an episode on hitting
(28:49):
reply.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That was very well thought out, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Will take us a little too long.
So, anyway, thanks for joiningus and we'll see you again next
week.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast.
I'm Aaron and I'm Dave.
This week we are going to start.
Actually, first thing I want tosay is congratulations to Cully
Scroggins.
He on opening day.
He attended our class lastspring Yep and opening day got a
very nice 4x4, eye guards, nicebuck real heavy and the funny
(00:25):
thing is it still looked like itwas pretty young.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Beautiful buck, though Nice dark antlered.
Got it done.
Opening day Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Congratulations.
We will probably have him onSometime after elk season.
We have three episodes withSmokey Cruz that we will be
playing after in a few weeks ofDave and I here we want to give
you some fresh content for theseason before we really get into
season rifle and all that andthen we'll play Smokey once
October hits they're prettyclose and then we'll get to
(00:54):
doing those success stories andeverything.
So anyway, we're starting off.
We got an email from Keith downin California and there was a
lot to unpack with this email,so I thought it would just make
a really great episode to talkthis all out.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah it was a really good email as far as man, just
the way he delved intoeverything and was really honest
about his questions.
That's what I appreciated.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, just to give you some highlights.
I live in Northern California.
I bought some property that is22 acres this year and want to
create a good habitat so that Ican hunt.
Here on my land I have starteda food plot, created a water
hole, made a mock scrape, put upscent and doing what I can to
improve the habitat over time.
I'm in the foothills at about1,700 feet.
(01:40):
My property drops down 200 feetto a seasonal creek that is
currently dry.
I have trail cams up and so farhave seen what I think is the
same doe and two fawns all overthe property many times, but saw
only one nice buck once sinceor in July.
Based on only seeing that one,my question is if you think I
(02:01):
should focus on hunting my landthis season or if that seems
like a waste and I should focuson finding public land while I
build my habitat and get morebucks in.
The public lands around heredon't feel too promising.
Low harvest rates, lots ofpressure and takes up even more
time with travel and I'm alreadylimited in hunting time to
mostly weekends and balancingthat with family time.
(02:23):
In California our season ends acouple of days into November,
so not sure how much the pre-rutand rut activity may bring some
bucks in and also, I thinkthere's only one doe.
So again, not sure how muchthings will improve in the next
couple months as the weatherchanges and the rut nears.
Just asked for insights for allof that.
(02:43):
So, with looking at all of this, want to start out.
So what are for a habitat tosucceed or to be viable in
supporting deer activity?
What needs to be present?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So, in my opinion, I think that there are three
things that you need.
You need to have food, coverand the opportunity to breed.
Now, of those three, I wouldsay the two most important are
the food and the cover.
Yeah.
The opportunity to breed.
Bucks will travel likewhitetails.
(03:22):
Will go seven miles to find adoe in standing, yeah, like
whitetails will go, you know,seven miles to find a doe and
standing yeah, a blacktail.
In our area.
They've done studies and manypeople have heard me say this
that they found out they livethe entirety of their lives.
Most of them this is like 99.9.
You're always going to have anoutlier live within 51 acres and
I think if cover gets sparse,that range gets larger yeah so
(03:43):
if you're living in an areawhere there's not a lot of thick
stuff, I think those bucksadapt to that and increase their
range.
Big bucks want to be in thickcover they don't use the same
trails does and small bucks do.
They always want to stick tothe cover, and if the car, if
the cover is sparse or far andfew between then, they've got to
(04:04):
travel to get to that cover.
Because that's where they'regoing to spend the majority of
their life is in that thickstuff.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, it's like 90, 95% is spent in 30% of that
range.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
So if they have to cover,always equals food, because
cover is, whether it's jackfuror jonfur or alder patches or
whatever.
I mean you've got all thesebushes and shrubs and stuff
inside of that and that's food.
Thick salal or Salmon berries,blackberries, all of that stuff,
(04:34):
even viney maples, the freshgreen shoots on viney maples.
To me the two most importantare cover and I would say it
would go in this order cover andfood.
Cover equals equals safety, notjust from hunters but from
weather as well and potentiallypredators.
Yeah, yeah, so those two wouldbe the ones that I would say,
but you need some kind ofculmination of the three to hold
(04:58):
on to good habitat.
The thicker the cover, the morefood you're going to have.
The more deer you're going todraw in.
The more cover you have, themore safe these deer are going
to feel and they're going tohave.
The more deer you're going todraw in, the more cover you have
, the more safe these deer aregoing to feel and they're going
to stay there.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, At some point I was doing some research on the
51 acres.
I think we were trying to findthe study that Washington did
that led to that information.
We were having a hard timefinding that study but when I
was doing the research one bitof information said they can
have a range of 600 to 1,200acres but state of Washington
(05:32):
their study average of 52 acres.
But I also saw that up inAlaska that some of the Sitka
blacktail can have a range aslittle as 20 acres.
So whether it's on an island orbut they have everything.
I think that's what it is isthey have all three of those
components available in a smallarea but that being temperate
(05:56):
rainforest and a lot of ourcoast all the way down to
Northern California on the coastfalls into that category.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Still very thick Yep to Northern.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
California on the coast falls into that category.
Still very thick, yep, yeah,but if you know and we don't
know Northern California as faras like, is it on the Huayrica
side or is it on the Eureka side, you know, is it on the coast
side or is I-5 corridor thinking?
And so from what I saw, that600 acre range seemed to imply,
from what I saw that 600-acrerange seemed to imply, from what
(06:27):
I read, that that was maybeRoseburg South.
So when it really opens up, itgets hot.
They might have to walk furtherto get to a water source.
They might have to walk furtherto get into a really thick
patch.
You know, it opens up more downthere, it becomes more of an
issue down there, right, right,but it's still.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
They still have their core area.
Yeah, you know, and thatdoesn't change, and that doesn't
even change for whitetail ormule deer.
Those bucks still have a corearea and they'll spend the
majority of their life in thatcore area.
I think that it's a mistake forus to think that if we see that
buck out there in thesummertime, or if we see that
(07:10):
buck there in the off season,whether it's early spring or
whatnot, that he's not going tobe around when hunting season
comes.
I think a lot of guys make thatmistake, because nothing can be
further from the truth, becausethat buck, when he goes into his
rut, the first does he's goingto check are going to be the
ones in his core area, and then,after they've either all been
bred or he's figured out thatnone of them are in standing
(07:30):
estrus, then he wanders outsidethat core area.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, and why I wanted to also bring this up is
you have had some otheracquaintances who have bought
land and they want to hunt theirland.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That is like, I think , for any hunter to be able to
just To lock it up and keep itfor yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
To just be able to hunt your own land.
But is it possible on 22 acres?
Is that possible If they've gotfood plots out?
Well, there's a food source,water hole, so they've got one.
There's dough and a couple offawns walking, so there are does
available.
So I guess it just means thesecurity.
(08:09):
So is there some really thickstuff?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
that would be well, I mean it goes back to the
initial question.
Can I make this a piece ofproperty that holds deer and
keeps deer all year round, or isthis the the question?
Can I make this habitat goodenough that he makes his core
area here?
Yeah.
You know what I mean, becauseit's two different things.
The core area if you have fiveacres, you can make it so that's
(08:34):
his core area.
If you work on building thathabitat, can you make it so that
he solely stays on that fiveacres?
I doubt that, but I getapproached all the time with
guys that got property that arelike well, I want to kill a buck
on my property and they havefive acres, 10 acres, 20 acres.
I don't know that the size ofthe property makes a difference
(08:57):
as much as just approaching itwith realistic expectations.
Keith, here the guy who'semailed us says he has 22 acres.
Okay, so 22 acres.
He's seeing just that doe andtwo fawns.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And a buck once.
And a buck once.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Okay, so chances are that's not that buck's core area
, because you only saw him onceand you saw him in the
summertime when he was in velvet.
So, he's out in the open, youknow.
So unless you start puttingcameras in the thick spot, that
could be why he's not gettingpictures of that buck right now.
A lot of guys make that mistake.
We put cameras or mineral siteswhere we want the bucks to be,
(09:36):
but we don't pay attention tothe time of year that we do that
.
You know bucks they get on thatsummer pattern.
They don't want to be in thethick stuff because they're in
velvet, they don't want to hittheir antlers and stuff, so they
move to the more open stuff.
Well, guys put minerals andstuff in the thick stuff, hoping
that they'll get pictures ofthat buck.
Then they go all summer andthey got maybe one or two.
Yeah, he'll be there duringhunting season because it's a
(09:57):
different mode that those deergo into.
You know to say that the it'snot that difficult, but it does
take time.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So if the real thick stuff isn't there, it could
eventually be there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
There's a ton of things on the market that you
can plant Switchgrass, whichgrows man.
That grows up to like eightfoot tall, and it grows fast.
And that's great cover.
That's great cover in thesummertime cover from predators,
from weather and everything.
It grows back every year.
Yeah.
It provides a lot, and that'sagain one of the most important
(10:33):
things is cover.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So, as I was thinking about this, it's also not
knowing the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Does he have?
22 acres in a yeah, does thatbutt up against Weyerhaeuser?
Does that butt up against thetown poachers?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The urban, more urban land.
Do you have neighbors who havemaybe his quarry?
Let's?
You know what I mean urban,more urban land.
Do you have neighbors who havemaybe his quarry?
Let's say the quarry is on theneighbor's land.
Well, here's a chance to gomeet the neighbors and talk to
them about potentially huntingtheir property, right?
So there's that aspect.
Is there agriculture aroundthere, too, agricultural?
So maybe you're going to buildtheir little habitat where
(11:08):
they're going to go for coverand then when they're going out
feeding, they'll walk out intothe fields and start eating.
So you can, like you weresaying, there can be a big buck
on five acres.
You have the five acres in themiddle of a suburb, right, right
, nobody, you know urban bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But I just go back to realisticexpectations, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, so another thing I was thinking about.
So seeing the buck in July mademe think of two times.
This is the first year and youknow, if you buy property, that
sounds like a long-termcommitment to that piece of land
.
But with my deer two times onRiverside he came back the exact
same time the following year.
(11:51):
What was funny is I went outand ran since last year it was
in between modern and latemodern he had already walked
through that area and I neversaw him again.
He shows up at night duringmodern season.
I wonder what are the oddshe'll see that same buck walking
(12:12):
through?
Oh really high, because theyend up being like clockwork.
They're habitual like that andI did think if, if you've seen a
doe and two fawns and they'veand it's stayed that way
throughout summer, that's apretty good sign that there's
not a whole lot of predatorsaround there.
Every time I've seen two fawnsby the end of summer, there's
(12:34):
one fawn.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Because, the bear or cougar's gotten a hold of them,
or the coyotes yeah.
Yeah, bobcat, anything else.
If you saw one, doe thinkingabout that.
You saw a buck and maybe he'llcome passing through there again
because it's in his range.
Mm-hmm, he's proven that it'sin his range.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
He's proven that.
It's in his range.
Yeah, she's been bred obviouslybefore.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So if you have a doe and a couple of fawns or a doe
is just seeing one doe is thatenough to work that property as
far as, because you'll becreating an illusion if you
sense that there's more, does itseems like.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Right.
So, if you're asking me, isthat enough to bring a buck in
and to kill a buck on it?
Yes, if you're asking me, if Iwould do that, probably not, and
the reason is that I would wantto build it up.
You know does are just, they'reconfidence decoys.
You know, does are just, they'reconfidence decoys.
(13:33):
If I can build a herd of deerin that area through food plots,
generating cover, creatingedges, hinge cutting, planting
switchgrass and a feed andmaking a deer habitat, that's
what I would rather do.
And build a herd, and I thinkthe idea of having your own
property when you do that is sothat you can harvest an animal
(13:54):
every year from your property.
That's the dream, right?
I always wanted to hunt on myown land.
If you're going to do that,then build a deer herd.
Don't just build it for oneseason to get that one buck, but
build it so you can repeatedlycome back every year and have a
shooter to go after.
That's what we teach in ourclasses and in my seminars I try
(14:16):
and really push that to theforefront.
That that's what we are ashunters.
We're deer herders, deerfarmers, elk farmers, bear
farmers.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Preservationists, as Heather put it.
She's a preservationist.
She wants her grandkids to beable to hunt there.
If you want your grandkids tobe able to hunt that property,
you've got to build it up towhere it's sustainable.
So meaning like, if that doe,if one of those fawns is a buck
well, now you have a couple ofbucks in that area.
(14:46):
If he doesn't have any coversafety, he'll leave to go find
that.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So it might not end up being his range.
You've got to create the reasonfor him to stay, which can take
a while.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But it'll go if you put five years in on it.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And that's what I mean by a while.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You're going to end up with a deer.
If you really work at it, infive years you could have just
an outstanding piece of land fordeer habitat, and the deer will
come.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Depending on where you're at.
I just noticed this.
So I was filming some contentup one of my sets.
Remember you and I went inright after I first found my
halfway set and we walked in andthat skidder road was
completely clear.
There was no scotch broom on it.
You could see from one end downto the other.
That was early June when youand I went in.
(15:36):
I found it before that.
I think I found it May or Apriland then you and I went in,
maybe late May or early June andwide open.
But by the time I went back forseason there was scotch broom
all over that skidder runprobably up to four feet tall.
(15:56):
Maybe a couple that were fivefeet tall, but you could still
see from one end to the other.
Well, I just went back in thereand I haven't gone in there.
I put out minerals before theybanned them back in January,
february and I think the lasttime I was in on that set
because I went and pulledeverything.
It was in March, so I hadn'tbeen back in there in a few
(16:19):
months because there was noreason for me to go back in
there.
Well, I just went in to filmsome content and look things
over, kind of get my game planready for when season comes up.
Well, that Scotch B broom.
You can't see down that skidderroad anymore, because that
scotch broom is as tall as eightfeet, maybe even more in some
areas.
It wasn't there 14 months ago.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Like I said yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So there are certain things that just take off.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah Well, like you said, we live in a rainforest.
Yeah, so it's not like we'regoing drought to drought to
drought.
You know what I mean?
We're going to go nine monthsof rain you know, so it's going
to have plenty of water to grow.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Blackberry bushes, get in there.
Yeah, you're going to have somethick stuff real quick and I
don't know about how long ittakes Salal to.
I'm in a huge patch.
It's everywhere where I'm atit's super thick and it's like
seven feet tall in some places.
Yeah, and I had to go clear mytrail back into my set because
(17:26):
everything started to overgrowfrom last year and I don't know
how fast that grows.
But there's a lot of stuff thatyou can help things along, I
would think.
Right right.
So that was interesting becauseI was walking in there thinking
I'll still be able to see and Icouldn't.
I couldn't see from one end ofthe and I'm talking like 300
(17:47):
yards down this skidder roadthat I could see the whole way,
and now you can't.
You know, there's some placeswhere you're completely
surrounded by scotch broom thatyou can't see.
You could turn around 360 andyou're not going to see anything
anywhere around you becauseit's so tall and thick in there
now.
So what would you suggestbesides cover?
Do you think he should berunning pheromones once the rut
(18:11):
starts?
Like running California'ssynthetics only as well.
And so even if he weren't goingto hunt this year, do you think
he should work his set as if heis?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I would, aaron, because I like cataloging the
deer.
Yeah, you know, and especiallyif I find a young buck and I see
potential in that young buck, Imean lucky, I killed him.
Was it two years ago now?
Yeah.
I had watched him for four yearsbefore I finally decided to go
in and hunt him and to see theprogression of that buck.
For me, that's part of thiswhole thing.
(18:46):
We're deer farmers.
You're raising that deer, I'mputting out the minerals.
If I'm in a state that allowsit, I'm doing everything I can
to help him reach his maximumpotential, watching him go from
a young buck, letting him livethat full life and reaching that
maturity, and when I finallysay, okay, this is the year I'm
going to go after him, he'sfinally made the hit list.
It's just fun to have thathistory when you finally get an
(19:09):
opportunity to go after thatbuck.
But I would run it like I washunting it.
I wouldn't hunt it, but I wouldrun it like I was and then I
would just start cataloging deerand watching them grow, finding
out what doe if I had multipledoes in there finding out which
one has bucks, Because there'llbe those does out there that all
they ever have their offspringis always a buck yeah, that's
(19:30):
the doe I want to take care of Ithink just around your house
there's a doe we got one aroundthe house has bucks all the time
yep, every year she has twobucks yeah, because there's
button buck.
I I think this year we've seen abutton buck, a spike, a three
point and a forked horn, and wehad two yearlings that were
(19:50):
bucks, but one of them goteither the bobcat or the coyotes
got him, and then— One of themrather.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
One of the big ones from last year got hit down at
the end of the road, and therewas another, even bigger one.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He showed up.
We had no idea he was around.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
There's a ton of bucks that just hang out.
They had no idea he was around.
There's a ton of bucks thatjust hang out.
That's all they're having.
So she's busy Probably hidingout and stuff.
This also made me think aboutrunning the set.
You never know what's going toshow up.
The season and season is verydifferent down in California
because some places it startsmid-July but a lot of it is by
(20:27):
early August and it sounds likeit runs through early November,
first couple of days of November, whereas ours up here are
mid-December to late December.
Yeah, but we've had some setswhere last year I kept my sets
going all through late season,even archery, and into January,
(20:48):
just to see what shows up.
Right, that's where I sawSneaky Pete, which was one of
the two dominant biggest bucksthat come into that set.
Came in on the last day ofModern Rifle right after I shot
my first spike.
So if I just waited one moreday, one o'clock in the
afternoon.
(21:09):
But what's cool is I know he'llbe back next year and around the
same time.
It's one of those where thiscould be a year where I just eat
the tag because I want to focuson him, but even thinking about
just watching those bucks asthey grow, looking at these
bucks as they grow up year afteryear.
I've done that with Anakin.
I want to really run that oneset, my hilltop set with him
(21:31):
because I just want to see howhe's grown.
I didn't get a great picturelast year, but I think I know
the spot where they're going inand out of their bedding area
and it's 30 yards, 40 yards fromthe pullout at the gate.
So it'd be real easy to go inthere with a camera and run some
scents or do some synthetic notbaiting, but something like An
(21:54):
attractant, an attractant Nosecandy.
Is that what it's called?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, tinks has got nose candy now.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And it's funny you say that because last weekend I
spent a day out with Mike Dippo.
Mike and Dan Dippo are theknockaholics on Facebook and
Instagram.
Great guy, they're the foundersof the Archery Trader.
If you get a chance, go to that.
It's a great place to findarchery equipment.
But anyway, I spent theSaturday with him and was able
(22:21):
to kind of go over some stuffand you know he come to the
realization that it's not amatter no-transcript.
Well, I had the opportunity, Ichose not to, and maybe, but the
same way I am, we both getfixated on a buck and that's the
(22:42):
buck we want and we'll letother bucks walk, but that's our
hunt.
It's not everybody's hunt.
If that's not you, then you beyou If you want to shoot that.
But you're going to have theopportunities.
If you start becoming more of aconservationist and helping
that deer herd be healthy,helping that deer herd, you know
, be prosperous, and comfortthat they have around there as
far as breeding and food and allthat stuff, you're going to see
(23:05):
a significant jump in deeractivity if you just make a
little bit of efforts in thoseareas.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, one of the things.
Actually that would be a goodone.
So, keith, or any of ourlisteners, if you can still do
minerals and attractants, goback and listen to our episode
called Managing your Herd andthat'll give you an idea,
because you'll want to start inFebruary with putting out some
(23:32):
minerals, some attractants.
It's creating more of a draw toyour property and that's the
whole.
I think the whole next year.
That should be the goalcreating more of a draw to your
property over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And the biggest draw is going to be survival.
Yeah.
And really that's all thatyou're doing when you're putting
out minerals and creating coverand all that.
It's just about survival.
That's all that's on their mindall the time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
That's why they have the nose that they've got.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And so should he abandon his property and look on
the public lands.
Honestly, from what we'vetalked about, you should always
be doing that, absolutely,because you should always be
looking at at least two sets,because you never know what's
going to happen on one.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You always want to have a plan B.
Number one, number two when Istart looking at harvest reports
, I kind of look at that througha filter, in the sense that if
you stop and think about it, 90%, maybe even more than 90%, of
hunters are the guys that driveup a park and start glassing
clear cuts.
They want to hunt the cuts,whether they're driving in,
(24:40):
hiking in or riding a bike in.
You know, a lot of guys spend amajority of their time on clear
cuts and that's not what wehunt at all.
We don't even consider clearcuts.
We have multiple opportunitiesat bucks every year, and when I
say multiple, I think ouraverage pro staff, if they
wanted to, could probably killfive deer a year with the number
(25:00):
of bucks that come into oursets.
So when I see that number, I'mtaking into account well,
there's not a high harvest rate.
Are most of those guys huntingclear cuts?
Chances are, yeah, okay.
And.
I'm not necessarily beating thedeer with a clear cut.
Sometimes I'm beating the otherhunter to that deer.
I just happened to be there theone time he decided to come out
, or one of seven times hedecided to come out and it could
(25:23):
be a spike, it could be aforking horn, it could be
whatever.
So when I see that number onpublic land, that doesn't
discourage me.
I start looking more forhabitat.
I get on onyx.
I'm more interested in findingthe habitat.
We don't hunt private property.
I hunt either DNR state land orI'm on timberland that
everybody else gets to hunt, soI don't have any private
(25:43):
property to go in and stuff.
But you can attest to this aswell, aaron, because you're in
the same boat.
We go areas where there's notmany deer and everything, and we
start doing a set in there andall of a sudden we got deer
coming out our ears.
It's because we're hunting it adifferent way.
We're approaching it from anangle or a position of I don't
(26:04):
want to be by the clear cuts, Iwant to be where the thick stuff
is, and when you learn how todo that, you're going to find
there's a lot more deer outthere than you realize.
Number one.
Number two there's a lot morebig bucks out there than you
realize.
Number three you don't have togo very far in.
Yeah.
It changes the whole game.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, I mean I'm third year in and I've got three
sets at least a half dozenshooter bucks, a dozen bucks
period that I could go in andharvest.
It's areas that other guysaren't hunting or if they are,
they're walking by where I'm at.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, thinking it's too thick, it's unhuntable or
there's no deer in there.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Really good point, thinking it's too thick, it's
unhuntable or there's no deer inthere.
Yeah, really good point.
Anyway, one of the things Iwanted to bring up as we
replayed our episodes and itdidn't really dawn on me until
recently that was frominformation from last year and
that was pre-ban on synthetics,or pre-ban on urines and
pheromones that were glandularbased for Washington State, and
(27:09):
ban on baiting and everythingelse.
So please make sure that you'rereading and understanding your
regs in your area, because ittook six months for all of that
information to be outdated.
We had recommended James Valleybecause they were a very good
brand but they're not syntheticso you can't use them anymore.
I don't like saying that don'tuse this company, we just can't.
(27:32):
A lot of good companies, but Iknow Tinks and Conquest Sense.
They do very good synthetics.
That's what I think we're goingwith this year.
Just make sure that you knowwhat your laws and regs are in
your area.
We did confirm actually Davewent by the WDFW office today
synthetics are legal to use inWashington.
(27:56):
So just make sure you're evercalm your bedding pheromones and
your buck urine and doe urineare all synthetics.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So that was a Region 5 office that I went to and
spoke with two game wardens andone of the biologists there.
They confirmed it and thereason I did that because it is
a little confusing how they wordit.
We've had several people saywell, you can't use synthetics,
you can't use anything Straightout of the horse's mouth today
down there.
No, you can use it, it is legaland we still have that option.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Thank you for joining us again this week.
Keith, thank you for sending inthat question.
It was great Dig into that.
That was a lot of reallyhelpful information for a lot of
guys.
We always welcome yourquestions.
If it's enough where we can diginto, we'll do an episode, or
we'll answer at the start of theepisode or just hit reply.
This was one that I thought weneed to do an episode on hitting
(28:49):
reply.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That was very well thought out, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Will take us a little too long.
So, anyway, thanks for joiningus and we'll see you again next
week.
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