September 10, 2024 • 54 mins
Can today’s pastors truly integrate exorcism into church ministry? Pastor Tyler Manis of Revelation Church in Carmel, Indiana joins The Blind Exorcist to share how his divine calling led him to the International School of Exorcism—and why he believes deliverance must be restored to the heart of modern discipleship.
📌 What you’ll discover in this episode:
✅ Why seminary education often overlooks spiritual warfare
✅ How exorcism and deliverance fit into healthy church ministry
✅ Breaking generational curses and confronting demonic oppression
✅ The danger of surface-level deliverance with no discipleship
✅ Why lasting freedom requires repentance and spiritual maturity
✅ The role of biblical theology in confronting demonic influence
Pastor Tyler issues a bold call for the church to return to full gospel truth—preaching hell, repentance, and deliverance without compromise. If you’re ready to confront the spiritual battles affecting today’s church, don’t miss this episode.
🔗 Visit Revelation Church: https://www.revelationcarmel.com/
Disclaimer: Links to guest websites or social media are for reference only and do not imply endorsement. The views expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of the host or The Blind Exorcist podcast.
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🛡️ Not sure if you need deliverance? Schedule a free 20-minute consultation.
📰 Get Inspiring Christian Teachings on deliverance – Sign up for my newsletter at www.justind.com. Scroll to the bottom of the home page to join!
📱 Connect With Me – Have questions or thoughts? Tap "Send me a text message" above. 🎙️ I’ll answer selected questions on the podcast!
📝 One-Way Anonymous Communication – This is a one-way text messaging system. I won’t be able to respond, but I’ll read your message.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to episode 26 of the Blind Exorcist podcast.
I'm your host, justin D, andI'm beyond excited to bring you
this episode.
First, I want to extend aheartfelt thank you for tuning
in and being a part of thisgrowing community.
Your continued support trulymakes this podcast possible.
(00:24):
In today's episode, I have anincredible conversation lined up
with Pastor Tyler Maness fromRevelation Church in Carmel,
indiana.
I'm diving deep into how PastorTyler is boldly integrating
exorcism into his church'sministry, a topic that's sure to
(00:45):
challenge and inspire you.
But before we jump in, I'd lovefor you to subscribe to the
podcast and share it with yourfamily, friends and on your
social media platforms.
If you feel moved to supportthe show.
It's easy Just tap support theshow in the show notes.
Your contribution directlyfuels this ministry, allowing me
(01:10):
to keep bringing you theseimpactful episodes.
I also encourage you to sharethis particular episode with any
pastor or minister you know.
It's a powerful opportunity tochallenge their theological
beliefs, especially around theidea that Christians cannot have
demons.
(01:31):
In this episode, pastor Tylerdoesn't hold back.
He shares the essentials ofexorcism ministry, his approach
to working with congregationmembers in need of deliverance
and his deep passion for thegospel and preaching the full
counsel of God's Word.
This is one episode you won'twant to miss.
(01:51):
It's going to be eye-opening,inspiring and thought-provoking.
You can visit Pastor Tyler'schurch website and watch his
sermons using Facebook Live.
You can check out the sermontimes over at
revelationchurchcarmelcom.
I'll put a link to his churchwebsite in the show notes
(02:13):
Without any further ado.
Let's dive in and get started,tyler.
Welcome to the Blind Exorcist,hey.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Justin, it's great to be here, brother.
I've been looking forward tothis opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule
and for jumping on here todiscuss a really important point
, I think, and last episode Iinterviewed a minister who was a
free Methodist minister who'sintegrating exorcism as a
function of the church.
(02:48):
That's not the driving factor.
This should be present in everychurch denomination and body
that's Protestant.
I wanted to bring Tyler ontothe show because he is yet again
another credible minister thathas a church where he is
(03:13):
starting to and exorcism and itgoes back to the theological
training that they go through inseminary.
(03:34):
But guess what?
I've met pastors and havetalked to pastors who have
people in their congregationcome to them and manifest demons
, okay, and they don't know whatto do.
Why don't they know what to do?
Because in seminary they aretaught that Christians cannot
(03:57):
have demons.
That is a lie.
We had a pastor recently get ahold of us because a woman in
his congregation now check thisout came to him.
He's done everything biblicalcounseling, taking her through
the word of God, fasting, hadher go to a counselor, all this
(04:19):
stuff and she still kept coming.
And she still kept comingtelling him things are moving in
my home.
I hear voices in my head thatare telling me to kill myself
and I'm getting visitations inthe middle of the night.
So this pastor has no clue howto help this person.
(04:41):
He's done all he can.
He's done what seminary toldhim to do Coach them, disciple
them through the word of God.
It will renew their mind andeverything will be fine.
This pastor reached out to usand said everything is not fine.
I need help.
I have questioned my trainingand theology.
(05:03):
I believe that this woman hasdemons.
Could you please help her andguess what we did?
And she had demons and theywere expelled through the
authority and compassion ofJesus Christ and she was set
free.
And this minister had to acceptthe fact that this woman who
(05:27):
had been attending his churchfor 30 years the grandmotherly
type, sweet Christian woman thatbakes the casseroles for your
church gatherings that womanyeah, that's who she was Turns
out she was molested as a childand demons entered her there.
I mention a lot of that becauseTyler is a minister who believes
(05:53):
in exorcism.
He has actually went throughthe International School of
Exorcism.
He is educated, he is trainedwell and he helps the members in
his local congregation whennecessary.
His church, his thrust, is notall about the hype of
deliverance and head spinningand vomiting, and all of that.
(06:17):
He has a very balanced approach.
I'm excited to have you on theshow, tyler, so we can begin to
explain to people that not onlycan this be a function of the
church, it should be, and,secondly, it can be balanced.
So let me come over to you,tyler.
First of all, let's start backat the beginning.
(06:39):
How did you get interested inbecoming a pastor and starting a
church?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, justin, I think that's an excellent question.
So I believe that God callspeople to ministry.
I believe that it comes withdivine calling and since I was a
kid I just felt that call andthat urge to go that direction.
I've just always had a heartfor ministry.
My dad is a pastor and so Igrew up practically art for
ministry.
My dad is a pastor, and so Igrew up practically I grew up in
ministry, and about four yearsago I had an opportunity to
(07:09):
plant a church in Carmel,indiana, and that's where it all
started for me.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's awesome, and after you've planted your church
, obviously membership startedcoming.
What was it that made youdecide to go to Dr Larson's
International School of Exorcism?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, so when it came to the School of Exorcism.
So I had a little bit of abackground in deliverance.
I've had mentors in my lifeprior to the School of Exorcism.
That gave me a foundation.
But I was starting to comeacross some cases where I just
wasn't getting anywhere withthem.
And you know, at this point I'mlike 30 exorcisms in.
I'm new at deliverance ministryand had a lot of successful
(07:55):
cases up to this point.
And then I just started hittinga wall after a wall after a wall
you know what I mean and I justwasn't getting anywhere.
Demons weren't manifesting, orpeople just weren't getting free
, or it's like a demon wouldmanifest and not come up fully.
And so I was trying to figureout what was going on and I got
discouraged and I went back andI just got alone with God and I
(08:16):
was praying.
I was like God, what's going on?
Why am I hitting these walls?
Why am I not seeing people free?
Why am I not seeing people free?
And I kid you not, this is whathappened to me, justin.
As I was praying, I saw apicture come to my mind of Bob
Larson's Curse-Breaking Book andliterally I went and Googled it
afterwards and it was the samecover, art and everything, and I
heard the Holy Spirit tell meto read it, and after I started
(08:39):
reading it, I really waslearning a lot.
I was like man, this is what Ineed to know.
This is the reason why I'mhaving all these problems.
I need to go deeper with this.
And shortly after that, Iapplied for the School of
Exorcism.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So you go through the International School of
Exorcism, which I alwaysrecommend for people to take
who's considering getting intodeliverance.
Larson has a process, astandardization that can be
trained.
That's why he has a school, sothat you can be trained in his
methodology and follow it, andit works.
(09:14):
I've been through it personallyfor 14 months.
If you've not heard my story,you can listen to episode one
Overcoming the Darkness.
This is why I became anexorcist, because Christ freed
me and I want to help others.
It's just a heart of compassion.
But the process people learn itfrom scratch, from books, from
(09:35):
YouTube videos, and it's just ahodgepodge.
There's not a systematicapproach to learning how to do
this and Larson brings that tothe table.
Tyler, you've went through this.
There's a standardization to itand I think that's great
because there really isn't anyout there, but Larson brings
that to the table.
What are your thoughts on hisprocess, methodology and
(10:00):
standardization?
I think that's an excellentquestion.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I'm all for it.
I love his methodology, I lovehis strategies, I love his
standard, especially when we'retalking about generational curse
breaking.
In my opinion, there's no otherway to do it and I think that's
why a lot of people don't getfree.
Personally and I say thisrespectfully, but I think it's
because a lot of ministers eventhough there are very few out
(10:23):
there that's practicingdeliverance ministry I think
very few don't understand theconcept of generational curse
breaking.
So when we're talking aboutgenerational curse breaking,
we're talking about thecomplexities of inner healing,
how far that can go, especiallywhen we're talking about
dissociations, soul parts andalso just the depth of trauma.
(10:45):
I think that Bob's strategiesare gold.
I really do.
I believe that God gave him anunderstanding and I believe that
you know, without boasting, inBob, but I believe that Bob is a
brilliant man.
I believe that God really usedhim in this area.
And people ask me.
They're like why do you stickwith methods and procedures?
And I tell them it's because itworks and people get free.
(11:06):
They're like why do you stickwith methods and procedures?
And I tell them it's because itworks and people get free.
Especially when we're talkingabout generational curses and
also when it comes to trauma,there needs to be methods in
place, we need to be educated,and I think that one of the
biggest problems that we'rehaving in the deliverance
ministry right now it's either.
It is just all about the up andout method without
understanding hey, how manydemons are there?
(11:27):
Why is this person hurting?
What's the trauma in thisperson's background?
All we do is we're just likecome out, jezebel, you know, and
it's like, well, that couldwork, but also you could do a
lot more harm to that personbecause you don't know what's
going on.
You don't know the trauma intheir background, you know.
You don't know how manygenerational curses they have.
You don't know if theirgrandparents, you know, are
(11:48):
witches.
You don't really know what'sgoing on until you implement
more methods and procedures.
You know.
Also, I'm all about theprophetic, but I even think that
sometimes prophetic movements,if they're not careful, they can
just rely solely on theirgiftings and they're not really
taking time to understand.
You know, how did the demonsget in the person?
How many demons are reallythere?
(12:09):
Why is the person hurting?
It just seems to become ultrademon heavy and I feel like,
even though a lot of people outthere mean well, I feel like
we're missing a key ingredientwhen it comes to deliverance
ministry, and it's the heart ofa person.
Let's not treat people likethey're demons.
Let's figure out why they'rehurting and what opened up the
door for demons to be there.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, that's an excellent point, and when you're
calling people up to an altarat the end of a service for
deliverance, there's not time tosit down with them and explore
their life.
There's not we do, and I'vementioned this before a
spiritual profile where we haveprobably 50, 30, 40, 50
(12:52):
questions on there where weassess the person's life, what
mental health conditions, whattraumas they've been through.
There's all kinds of questions,the family dynamics.
So under Larson you spend a lotof time with people and I think
a lot of the deliveranceministries that are out there
(13:16):
they don't spend a lot of timewith people and that's why it
doesn't work, because there aregenerational curses and there
are traumas that need to beworked through and that takes
time and our sessions typicallylast two hours.
Every session Our first sessionwith clients we go through
their intake questions and thatalone takes two hours.
(13:36):
That's how much time we spendwith people to understand their
heart and their hurts and theirlife.
Recently we were working with aclient and she was older.
She was probably maybe 62,mid-60s, so she had a life of
(13:58):
trauma, a life, and it took usfour hours, pretty close to four
hours, to just go through herintake questions and take notes
as we talked about her life, theamount of trauma that she had
been through, the sexual abuse,the rapes, the molestations, the
(14:21):
multiple husbands, theabandonments, the divorces, the
impact on the children.
On and on it goes, and so we'reassessing this as exorcists,
we're documenting, we're takingnotes that we can build a case
to say here's the pattern.
It started on the mother's sidewith she was molested, then her
(14:45):
mother was molested and thisgoes back to a generational
curse.
It's involved.
Tyler, back to you.
When you work with a client inyour congregation as a pastor,
can you share with the audience?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yes, I would love to, and also I wanted to just say I
love what you're talking about.
I think this conversation isneeded.
I think people need tounderstand how important
deliverance ministry really isand to do it effectively,
because people are hurting,there are souls at stake and I
just think it's so importantthat, if we're going to practice
deliverance, that we actuallyunderstand that there's a
(15:27):
soulish aspect to this.
There's people's emotions thattake place.
I like to say that, asdeliverance ministers or as
exorcists, we're actuallydealing with the human psyche.
We're dealing with whathappened to somebody's mind and
even though we're notpsychologists we're not licensed
counselors necessarily but wehave to understand how the mind
works and how demons behave andhow demons mess with people's
(15:50):
minds, because I just think it'sso dangerous to treat people
like they're a demon and goingback and trying to just
piggybacking off of what youwere saying with ministers, just
spending 30 minutes with peoplecommanding Jezebel to go.
In my opinion and I say thisout of respect, I don't say this
with impure motives, but I justthink a lot of it is because
(16:11):
people really don't care,especially ministers.
They really don't care aboutwhat's hurting you.
They just want what's there out, and I think that's the
disconnect.
I think we need compassion inthis ministry.
We have to care for people'ssouls.
We have to care for people'shearts.
What's going on with you?
Why are you hurting?
Who hurt you?
Who rejected you, who abandonedyou?
(16:31):
And as a pastor, I take more ofa discipleship approach.
I'll get to know a person inthe congregation.
I will make sure that theyunderstand that Jesus loves them
and they understand the gospeland they establish lordship with
Christ.
And also I'll have them fillout an intake form, as you were
talking about earlier.
(16:52):
And so then we go through thedeliverance process with them
and in the meantime, as we'regoing through the deliverance
process, we're also teachingthem and equipping them how to
engage in spiritual warfare, howto fight back, how to recognize
when demons are attacking them,how to take their thoughts
captive, and so we really walkhand in hand with people to the
best of our ability to ensurethat they're doing everything
(17:16):
that they can do to get free andstay free and fight back in
Jesus' name.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
It saddens me that Christians the majority do not
understand spiritual warfarewhatsoever.
Pastor Chris, in the lastepisode if you've not heard that
about the free Methodistminister I interviewed, can
Christians have Demons listen toit?
I interviewed, can Christianshave Demons Listen to it?
And he's all about discipleshipand discipling people and
training them in thefoundational core concepts of
(17:45):
Christianity, and just that.
People are untrained,undiscipled.
They go to churches that justtell them that God loves you and
the grace message He'll forgiveyou for whatever you do, and so
they live this illusion ofChristianity.
(18:07):
How many pastors teach abouthell?
That you're going to burn inhell, where there's going to be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You never hear it.
You know why Because they careabout numbers teeth.
You never hear it.
You know why Because they careabout numbers and I don't mean
to come across as judgy, but weare in the last days, like, in
my personal opinion, christ isgoing to be returning soon.
(18:29):
This is why there's so muchdemonic activity in culture.
This is why it's so open andunashamed.
People don't care.
I can go into a Starbucks andsit down any day of the week
with a witch or a warlock that'sin there having a coffee and
just talk to them like it'snormal, because culturally it is
(18:50):
, and so it's a very complexsituation.
So back to your point though,tyler, about the discipleship,
teaching them the Word of Godand the foundational concepts
that we are sinners and if wedie living in sin you will go to
hell.
That's just the Bible.
(19:10):
Don't hear any of that anymore.
And then teaching spiritualwarfare.
And then teaching spiritualwarfare.
The people that I put throughexorcism sessions.
They absolutely have nounderstanding of spiritual
warfare.
They don't know how to fightSatan.
They don't even know thatyou're supposed to quote the
(19:37):
Bible against Satan when heattacks your mind.
They don't understand anything.
Why is that?
Why don't they understand Satan?
Why don't they understandspiritual warfare?
Because it's not taught.
It's not taught what is taught.
God loves you.
You're special Sin all you want.
Ask forgiveness.
You'll make it to heaven.
You'll be just fine.
You'll be just fine Sincerely.
(20:06):
That is the generalized theme ofmany Christian churches in
today's environment, and so it'ssad, because we work with
clients that ask where can I goto a church that actually
preaches the gospel of JesusChrist?
It's so hard for people to finda church that preaches the
gospel, the whole gospel, theentirety of God's Word.
(20:28):
A lot of the churches now havefallen away from the Christian
model and they are like thetransvestite pastors Christian
model and they are like thetransvestite pastors, homosexual
marriages, all of that kind ofstuff.
A lot of the denominations havefell away into that and it's
limited people's ability to findchurches.
(20:49):
They struggle to find a churchthat actually has conservative
Christian teaching establishedin the Word of God.
That's crazy.
Who would ever thought thatthey struggle to find a church?
And Pastor Tyler is one of thosechurches that preach the entire
(21:09):
counsel of God's Word in Carmel, indiana.
I'm going to put a link to hiswebsite so if anyone's in that
area or you're passing through,you can visit.
I'm going to put a link to hiswebsite so if anyone's in that
area or you're passing through,you can visit.
I mentioned this to come backto you, tyler, because I know
for you you want deliverance tosimply be a function of your
(21:30):
church, not the entirety of it,and I agree with that.
Deliverance should just simplybe a part of the church, and I
agree with that.
Deliverance should just simplybe a part of the church, just
like the Catholic Church hasexorcism ministry.
It's just a ministry for ifsomebody needs help, it's not
the entire thrust of thedenomination, and it shouldn't
(21:50):
be that way in the Protestantchurches either.
And, tyler, this is yourpassion and heart as well.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, absolutely, justin.
I love this.
I feel like we're on the samepage, I feel like we have the
same heartbeat for this matter,you know.
First, before I even really goanywhere in this topic, I really
want to just draw everyone'sattention to Acts, chapter 20,
starting in verse number 26.
And the Word of God saystherefore I testify to you this
(22:20):
day that I am innocent of theblood of all, for I did not
shrink from declaring to you thewhole counsel of God.
So, especially when it comes topastoral ministry, it's very
important that the focal pointis to preach the whole counsel
of God, and what that means isto preach the entire Bible, to
preach every doctrine of theBible, not just grace alone, not
(22:42):
just faith, but also repentance, also on hell, also on heaven.
We need to preach the wholeBible.
We need to believe that theBible is the holy, inspired,
inerrant, completely true wordof God.
And I think that the biggestproblem that we're having today,
justin, is not just withdeliverance ministry, it's not
(23:04):
even just with propheticministry or any other type of
ministry.
I think the biggest problem isactually much deeper than that.
I think we're having a gospelproblem.
I really believe that we, as thechurch has gotten away from the
true gospel, the real gospel ofthe Lord Jesus Christ, and the
real gospel has very little todo about you and has everything
(23:27):
to do about Christ.
I like to tease people, butwhat I say is that the church no
longer preaches theologyanymore, which is all about God
or all about Christ.
Now we preach we have exchangedit and now we preach me-ology,
which means it's all about me,and I think that it's very scary
(23:48):
.
You know, you look at theconditions of our world right
now, justin, and, like you werementioning a few minutes ago,
going to Starbucks having aconversation with a witch is now
considered normal with culture,right, but at the same time,
it's well.
How do we get to this point?
You know, why are we here rightnow?
Some can argue it's becausewe're in the last days, and I
(24:08):
agree with that.
But I also think it's becausethe church hasn't been doing its
job, and I say thatrespectfully.
I'm not trying to bash anybody.
I don't have a single church inmind or a pastor in mind.
I have no vendetta, but I'mjust speaking from my heart.
Here is that we have gotten awayfrom the true gospel of Jesus
Christ.
We've gotten away from doctrine, we've gotten away from
theology, we've gotten away fromdeliverance.
(24:28):
It was very normal, even withinProtestant circles at least
with some, not all, but it wasvery normal for them to practice
deliverance too in churchhistory, until the rise of
psychology came about 100 yearsago.
So you can even look at that inhistory it's like psychology
replaced deliverance ministry inthe church, and maybe that's
(24:50):
another conversation in and ofitself.
My heart for ministry or withinthe church is that deliverance
is not the focal point and itshould not overshadow the
overall ministry approach, butthe emphasis should be on
integrating deliverance in abalanced manner within the
ministry.
So therefore, as the pastor atRevelation Church, I found it
(25:13):
crucial to prioritize awell-rounded approach to
pastoral ministry andincorporate deliverance as a
vital part of approach topastoral ministry and
incorporate deliverance as avital part of our mission.
We're not closet deliveranceministers at Revelation Church.
We don't hide what we believe.
We just don't make it the mainfocus.
What we make the main focus isChrist and the gospel.
We want the gospel to be theprimary focus.
(25:33):
We want to see people repent oftheir sins and believe that
Jesus Christ is their Lord andSavior, the only way to inherit
salvation, the only way to God,the only way to heaven, and with
that we have to understand thatwe are sinners and we're
desperately in need of a Savior.
You know, and here's the thingis, this has been really
challenging and I don't know howmuch you want to talk about
(25:54):
this aspect and maybe we cantalk about it more later.
But there's been a lot ofissues that I've seen as a
pastor within deliverance, andit's really because there's a
battle of these extremes goingon, where it's either everything
has to be deliverance or not atall, and maybe we can talk
about that in a minute.
(26:14):
So I just want to jump pastthat, but I would really like to
set camp there in a minute.
So I just want to jump pastthat, but I would really like to
set camp there in a little bit,if that's okay with you.
But I just think that there's alot of problems and it's time
to re-evaluate and return to amore balanced approach to
ministry within the church.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And you know.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
With that being said, if we're talking about
deliverance, you know I have noproblem with people saying well,
you know, we need to build adeliverance center, or if they
have a deliverance ministry thatis connected to a church, but
they're doing their own thing.
You know, I understand that andthat's fine.
I think where the disconnectcomes for me is when you say I'm
a pastor and all I do is preachon deliverance.
It's no, you are called topreach on the whole counsel of
(26:55):
God, and what we're seeing iswe're seeing a huge disconnect
here.
Even in prophetic circles, it'slike everything becomes about
the prophetic.
So it's here we are talkingabout blood moons or the return
of the gods, or you know what itmeans.
There's just a lot of things,and we're getting into the
political sphere and all thesethings are going on, and even
though I think that there's atime and a place for those
(27:17):
things, it should not be thefocal point of ministry and it
doesn't matter what office thatyou walk in.
What is primary is the gospelof Jesus Christ.
Christ died for sinners and wehave to preach Christ, jesus and
him crucified.
I think it's so important and Ithink that's the biggest
condition of where we're attoday is that we have failed, as
(27:38):
ministers, to preach the truegospel of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Wow, you have my head spinning in a million different
directions.
But yeah, this is all good.
This is a good message for allof us, myself included, pastor
Tyler included because we've gotto reground ourselves in
Christian doctrine.
We have to reground ourselvesin core theology and doctrine of
(28:06):
our Christian religion and wehaven't.
We've just piecemealed partsout and rode those horses, so to
speak, and people are gallopingalong because it feels good
just talking about God's love.
It feels good talking aboutgrace, but that's just part of
(28:27):
the message.
How often do you hear a ministertalking about suffering?
Not too often.
Talking about suffering not toooften.
Why?
Because it doesn't keep peoplein the church.
It's about numbers and they gotto pay bills.
It's about bringing money in.
Now, I'm not saying everyminister is this way, but there
(28:50):
is an element of truth to thiswhat I'm saying.
If you're getting up sayingthat you're suffering because
God's purifying you, or perhapsGod is disciplining you for your
rebellion against what he hasasked you to give up or do in
life, hebrews, chapter 12, verse6 tells us for the Lord
(29:15):
disciplines those he loves andhe punishes each one he accepts
as his child.
When is the last time you haveheard a message like this, right
, that doesn't go over real wellwith people.
When you get up in front of theChristian church and say you
know what Christianity can costyou everything.
(29:37):
It's going to cost youabsolutely everything.
Jesus said in Matthew 10, verse37, if you love your father or
mother more than you love me,you are not worthy of being mine
.
Or if you love your son ordaughter more than me, you are
not worthy of being mine.
This concept of giving up allis repeated in Luke 9, verse 23.
(30:01):
Then he said to the crowd Ifany of you wants to be my
follower, you must give up yourown way, take up your cross
daily and follow me.
You don't hear stuff like thatanymore.
But that is the counsel, theentire counsel of God's Word.
You never hear a minister sayyou know what?
(30:21):
Paul was beheaded in Rome forhis faith.
You don't hear stuff like that.
You know what you hear inAmericanized Christianity, and I
should say WesternizedChristianity Doesn't matter,
could be in Europe, it could bein Australia, canada.
The westernized Christianity isall about prosperity, love and
(30:43):
grace.
That's not the entire counselof God's Word, and so part of
that entire counsel isdeliverance.
Ministry is exorcism.
A third of Christ's ministrywas exorcism.
We got to get back to beinggrounded in doctrine and this is
why I've been bringing on Ibrought on Pastor Chris and I
(31:05):
brought on Pastor Tyler was tochallenge all of our thinking,
including myself, about gettingback to core, foundational
doctrine and getting grounded inChrist.
We've lost it.
We've lost it.
We've absolutely lost it.
We're sitting around in churchdrinking cups of coffee and
(31:25):
eating cookies For real, thathappens and singing songs all
about ourselves, how God lovesus and he's faithful and he's
going to help us.
And then you hear a message ofhey, if you have a tough time
this week, know God's with you.
Do something special for afriend, maybe.
Buy him a coffee.
That type of stuff is beingpreached.
(31:48):
Buy a person a meal behind youin McDonald's and just tell them
God loves you.
I'm not saying that's bad, butthis is the just.
It's not true Christianity.
True Christianity is what readit.
It's in the Bible.
What happened to the disciples?
(32:10):
Right, that's true Christianity.
They went around preaching,winning people to Jesus Christ,
and they suffered for it.
They were persecuted.
Oh, we don't talk about that.
That's going to make the peoplequit coming to my church that
you could be persecuted.
(32:30):
You might lose your life forJesus Christ.
Oh, don't talk about that.
We're not going to get as muchmoney coming in.
So, anyhow, there's a lot herethat we're discussing, but I
think the underlying theme isgetting grounded, coming back to
our roots as Christians,getting back into solid doctrine
(32:54):
, and part of that soliddoctrine is that Christians can
have demons and require exorcism, or what some call deliverance,
and historically, exorcism isdocumented after the death of
Christ.
There are historical documentsthat mention exorcism.
(33:17):
It was performed frequently bythe early church.
For example, in his secondapology, justin Martyr, born 100
AD and died 165 AD, mentionsthat many Christians by the name
of Jesus Christ were castingout demons and evil spirits.
(33:38):
Another one, eusebius, born 260AD and died 339 AD, records
various miracles and exorcismsperformed by early Christians.
He references the power ofexorcisms as evidence of the
divine truth of Christianity andthe authority given by Christ
(34:01):
to his followers.
There are many more past thesetwo men.
So if early church historianswere documenting exorcism as a
normal function of the churchafter the death of Jesus Christ,
who roughly died between 30 ADand 33 AD, why aren't current
pastors teaching this tocongregations and performing
(34:25):
exorcisms?
So this isn't anything strangeand bizarre.
It's just we have to wrestlewith this westernized version of
Christianity and come back tothe roots of our faith.
Come back to it, get grounded,sell out to Jesus Christ right.
(34:46):
Get rid of sin in your life.
Don't just keep sinning.
Throw the stuff out, quit doingwhat you're doing.
That's sin.
Come back to Jesus Christ fully, get rid of your demons that
compel you to do things rightand just prepping yourself for
the return of christ.
Getting into a church thatteaches the entire council.
(35:07):
It took me a long time to finda church, guys.
A long time Because all thechurches that I would go to were
what I'm explaining God lovesyou.
They're like psychologicalself-help messages.
But I wanted the entire counciland I finally found a church
that does this.
(35:27):
And my minister right now isgoing through the book of Ezra,
verse by verse, historically,breaking it down, relating it to
our lives so we couldunderstand the Bible, and he's
taking the whole counsel ofGod's Word, the whole counsel.
(35:48):
He'll look at the concepts inthe New Testament and break
those down.
He'll look at the concepts inthe Old Testament and he teaches
about hell, that there is areal hell, that Jesus taught a
lot about hell, weeping andgnashing of teeth and all of
that.
Praise God, I was able to finda church that teaches the entire
(36:10):
doctrine.
You can find that too.
That's my encouragement to youis to really you know, this is
kind of a wake-up call foreveryone, myself included, like
we got to get our heads back inthe game.
It's not about going to churchon Sunday and hearing happy,
feel-good messages and then allweek long, not even read the
(36:32):
Bible, maybe listen to Christianmusic on the way home from work
, maybe open a YouTube videoonce a week or a couple times a
week.
That's not Christianity.
Christianity has to do withcomplete surrenderance to Jesus
Christ, every area of our life,and that's a process that
doesn't happen overnight.
(36:53):
That's part of the journey withJesus.
We give it up bit by bit, stepby step.
I'm not saying we have to beperfect, but if we get back to
those core doctrines, Iencourage you to find a church
that focuses on the gospelmessage of Jesus Christ that he
died for our sins, that we aresinful people in need of a
(37:17):
Savior.
My pastor integrates this truthinto every sermon, always
inviting the congregation togive their lives to Jesus Christ
.
Why?
Because the mission ofChristians is to lead others to
Christ.
That's the heart of the gospelmessage.
Oh, there's so much there thatis just overlooked in today's
(37:40):
times.
So, tyler, coming back to you,I know discipleship's big for
you, teaching the entire gospelwhen you work with somebody in
your church that needsdeliverance ministry.
What are some of the thingsthat these Christians are
bringing to the table andsharing with you?
(38:01):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I think there's not just like a one-size-fits-all
for this kind of question.
So many of them are hurting,many of them are looking for
freedom, many of them have triedgoing a lot of other places and
, as you mentioned before,they're not finding the help
that they need.
Listen for me personally,justin.
I take a little differentapproach with this.
(38:26):
My perspective's a littledifferent, and the reason why is
and I don't mean to just setcamp here and make this podcast
all about just being gospelfocused, even though I think
that's of vital importance butwhat I noticed for me personally
and this has been one of thebiggest frustrations for me in
ministry that I had to get tothe Lord.
(38:46):
A lot of people come from megachurches or just all these other
churches and what they want isthey want me to help their
pastor.
They would say things like thisto me we love what you're doing
, we love your heart, we lovehow you're preaching the whole
counsel of God, but only if mypastor would do that, and so
(39:07):
it's like they're coming for mefor help.
They don't trust their ownpastor to help them, but they
don't want to leave theircomfort, and I think that's
scary.
And now, please don'tmisunderstand me.
I'm not saying that all thesepeople should just leave their
churches to come to the church Ipastor.
I'm not saying that at all.
What I'm saying is what breaksmy heart is you have all these
people who can't get help fromtheir pastor, but yet they don't
(39:30):
want to leave Egypt.
You see what I'm saying.
They want freedom, just to goback to their lukewarm churches,
just to go back to theirdysfunction, just to go back to
their lukewarm churches, just togo back to their dysfunction,
just to go back to their sin.
And what I do in my approachwhen I'm working with people
one-on-one is okay.
I know you're hurting, I knowpeople have hurt you, okay, but
(39:52):
do you believe the gospel ofJesus Christ?
Do you realize that you're asinner and that you need to
repent of your sins?
And I know that may not bepopular, but it's so, so
important.
And this is what happened to me.
I'll just go ahead and just gofor it, because I, you know, I
planted this church four yearsago, by the grace of God, and we
(40:13):
started to really get a highattendance for just opening the
church and just starting out,because we did deliverance
ministry and we're getting tothis place where now we're
standing room only or we'rerunning out of chairs or people
are outside the door becausethey want freedom and all of
that stuff is great and we'relike man, this is amazing.
But what happened was Justin,it hijacked our ministry because
(40:36):
then people didn't want to comehear the gospel, they just
wanted their demons cast out ofthem.
People didn't want to repent oftheir sins, they just wanted
their problems to go away.
And I got to this place wherepeople are coming from
everywhere and they were comingthrough the doors and then they
would say things like thisthey're like are we going to
have deliverance today?
I said right now we'rescheduled to preach on Romans.
(40:59):
And they're like are you goingto do what a lot of these other
guys do and are we going to seemanifestations?
Are people going to be rollingon the floor or anything like
that?
I said here's the thing,brother.
I said and I just want to behonest with you I said, if
people start manifesting a demonand the anointing is in the
service to do deliverance, thenwe'll cast that demon out of
somebody.
But we're not going to try toorchestrate a situation or get
(41:22):
people up here just to manifestdemons to have a show, and he
didn't like that very much andhe walked out.
He said I want to go to achurch where I'm seeing all
these manifestations and if thisisn't it, then I'm not coming
back.
And I think that's a big issueand, once again, I'm not coming
from this place of hurt, I'mjust coming from this place of
what is going on.
What has the church beenreduced to?
(41:43):
And maybe I'm just in this boatalone because I'm me, justin.
You know enough about me toknow that I'm all about
deliverance.
People need freedom, butdeliverance should not be the
focal point of Christianity.
It should be, as we've talkedabout multiple times already on
this podcast.
It should be a byproduct.
It should be as we've talkedabout multiple times already on
this podcast.
You know it should be abyproduct, this should be a
(42:04):
function of the church, but notthe focal point.
We have to go back to thegospel and right now I'm just
seeing a lot of problems withinthe church at large here in
America.
And this is why because it'sevident that the church mindset
tends to swing between extremesa heavy emphasis on theology to
(42:24):
the exclusion of spirituality,or an intense focus on
spirituality at the expense oftheological understanding.
This has led to anall-or-nothing mentality, be it
spiritual gifts, prophecy ordeliverance.
Consequently, the church haslots of equilibrium and focus.
It's either oh, do we practiceprophecy here?
(42:45):
Okay, then every single service, people need to prophesy.
Do we practice deliverance here?
Okay, then every single servicepeople need to prophesy.
Oh, are you teaching out of thebook of Ezra?
Okay, then this is a teachingchurch.
So every single service itneeds to just be teaching.
Only it's like where did we getto this place?
(43:06):
Part of the whole counsel of Godis incorporating the gifts of
the spirit.
It's incorporating deliverance,as you said.
It's believing the entirety ofthe Bible and implementing it
under the inspiration and theguidance and the anointing of
the Holy ghost and I'm just I'mjust excited right here because
I just feel like this is soimportant to understand.
Is that, yes?
Do we need to go to a churchthat practices deliverance?
Sure, absolutely.
(43:27):
Do we need to find a churchthat believes in all nine gifts
of the Spirit?
Yes, absolutely.
But we need a church thatpreaches the gospel and the
whole counsel of God, thatbelieves in all these other
things.
It's so desperately needed.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Amen.
The gospel and the salvationmessage is the key to it all.
Sorry to interrupt.
Go on, preach it.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
The gospel message is the central theme of Scripture.
It is not simply the basics ofChristianity, but it is the
overarching theme of theentirety of Scripture, which
means it's truly a wonder tobehold.
And that's why the apostle Paulsaid in 1 Corinthians 2.1, and
when I come to you, brothers,did not come proclaiming to you
(44:08):
the testimony of God with loftyspeech or wisdom.
What did he do?
He came and he preached ChristJesus and him crucified.
Or Charles Spurgeon, one of thegreatest preachers that ever
lived, also known as the Princeof Preachers, would find a way
to share the gospel message, nomatter what passage of scripture
he used for his primary text orhis sermon.
So he could be taking Malachi3.10, talking about tithing and
(44:32):
then somehow figure out a way totie that into Melchizedek and
how Melchizedek was a type andshadow of Christ and how
Melchizedek was the high priest.
Now Jesus Christ fulfills thatfunction and you must repent of
your sins and believe the gospelof Jesus Christ.
Why would he do things likethis?
Because Spurgeon understoodthat he understood the vital
importance of the message of thegospel.
(44:53):
This message is the sacred taskthat all faithful preachers,
deliverance ministers, prophets,apostles, teachers.
They must preach and seek tounderstand the power of God and
the preeminence of Christ.
Do you realize that as Jesusstarted in his ministry, he said
we must repent of our sins andbelieve the gospel of God.
(45:14):
You can find that in Mark 1, 14through 15.
Jesus came right out of thegate saying repent and believe.
Martin Luther, the greatreformer, defined the gospel as
God sent his son into the worldto save sinners, crush hell,
overcome death, take away sinand satisfy the law.
That is the gospel of JesusChrist.
(45:36):
The gospel of Jesus Christ saysthat you're awesome, god's
awesome.
Let's follow Jesus becausethat's awesome.
No, you must repent of yoursins.
You must sacrifice your lifefor the things of God.
You must submit to his will.
You must love him, not becauseyou have to work to earn your
salvation, but because he'sworthy of it.
In fact, salvation is by grace,through faith, not by our own
(45:58):
works, and you can find this inEphesians, chapter two, eight
and nine.
So we can't do anything to earnour salvation.
All we have to do is repent andbelieve.
We need to repent and havefaith.
We can do nothing to saveourselves from the penalty of
sin.
Salvation is by grace alone,through faith alone and in
Christ alone, and that's why, inMark 12, 30, jesus said that we
(46:22):
must love the Lord, our God,with all of our hearts, mind,
soul and strength.
We have to understand thatChristianity isn't about how
much God loves me.
God does love you, but he alsowants you to love him, and
that's why this is what Jesusbelieves.
When they ask him, what do youhave to do to become a pastor?
(46:44):
And Jesus said you must loveyour neighbor as yourselves.
Therefore, we must conclude thatwe are mere mortals, lost,
dying in sin, depraved, anddesperately need a savior, and
we have to come to terms withour reality.
And we must believe thatthere's only one person worthy
of our worship and our devotionand our praise, and that is
(47:07):
Jesus Christ.
We must believe that JesusChrist is the only begotten son
of God and regard him as bothfully man and fully God.
We must believe that he becamea man, was born of a virgin,
conceived by the Holy Spirit,lived a sinless life, died on
the cross for our sins, rose onthe third day and is alive
(47:27):
forevermore.
Now I don't know who'slistening to this podcast right
now, and I don't even know ifyou agree with this message, but
I'm here to tell you today thatJesus loves you and he paid the
ultimate price for you.
And if you repent of your sinsand believe the gospel of Jesus
Christ, if you have faith inChrist, you will be saved.
But you have to abandon yourdead works.
You need to sacrifice your lifefor Christ and see.
(47:50):
That's the thing with true,radical biblical Christianity is
that Christ sacrificed his lifefor you so you can sacrifice
your life to him.
We need to understand that.
In early church history, theearly church father Athanasius
said God became like you so youcan become like him.
In other words, he said thatthe son of God became the son of
(48:12):
man so that the sons of men canbecome sons of God.
Don't you realize that JesusChrist didn't die on the cross
to save you, just so you canlive in your sin, just so you
can live in your sin, just soyou can live in your torment,
just so you can live in yourproblems, just so you can be
demonized.
No, no, ma'am, no sir, no,brothers and sisters, christ
died for you so you can betriumphant.
Christ died for you so you canwalk above sin.
(48:35):
Christ died for you so you canbe delivered, set free and made
whole.
Christ died for you so you canlove him with all your heart,
mind, soul and strength.
You have to understand thatbefore you met Christ, your
heart was hardened, your heartwas not regenerated, your heart
was filled with all evil andcontempt.
But when Christ saved you, hepulled you out of darkness and
into his marvelous light.
(48:55):
And that's why it's soimportant, because Jesus said in
Luke 5, 32, I have not come tocall the righteous, but sinners
to repentance.
There is no gospel withoutrepentance.
We need to get back torepentance and we need to get
back to faith.
That's so important.
It's so important.
(49:16):
And why is this important withdeliverance ministry?
Because true, authenticdeliverance ministry works as a
byproduct of the gospel message,and what that means is even in
true deliverance ministry, wehave to focus on repentance and
faith.
We need to renounce the thingsthat we've done, the pacts that
we made with the enemy.
We need to renounce thewitchcraft that we partnered
(49:37):
with in our past.
We have to renounce it andbreak it.
We need to renounce thewitchcraft that we partnered
with in our past.
We have to renounce it andbreak it.
We need to repent unto God.
And what I'm so afraid of,justin, in these times is that
many of us are focusing on adeliverance ministry.
That's void of the gospel.
It's focusing on deliverancethat's void of repentance.
Yes, I understand there's morethan just repentance involved.
(49:59):
We need to renounce things, weneed to be educated, we need to
have methods and procedures andall of those things are great,
but we also have to understandwe need to be saved.
What is it worth us gettingfree of the demon if we're not
going to repent of our sins andturn away from sin and cling to
the cross of Christ and go tohell?
We need to be saved.
Deliverance is for saved peopleand that's why I don't
(50:20):
understand where all these othermindsets come in.
Where a Christian can't bedemonized, what do you mean?
A Christian can be demonized.
A Christian can have anythingthat he wants to have.
If a Christian wants a demon,he can open up a door to a demon
.
If a Christian wants to livedemon free, guess what A
Christian can get all thosedemons cast out of him.
Why?
Because of the power of thecross of Christ.
And I just think it's soimportant that the gospel, as
(50:43):
well as deliverance, shouldfocus on repentance and faith
and must magnify Christ and thecross of Christ.
Jesus said if I be lifted up, Iwill draw all men unto me and
I'm just.
I'm looking at the condition ofwhere things are today and we're
seeing all this, this rise indeliverance ministry.
(51:05):
We're seeing all these YouTubevideos.
We're seeing people becomefamous and have movies and
walking on the red carpet.
Tell me, where in the Bible didthe apostle Paul enter into a
city and they just threw out ared carpet for him to walk on?
We have to get away from thecelebrity mindset of
Christianity.
We need to become servantsagain.
We need to fall in love withJesus again.
(51:25):
We need to know that he paidthe ultimate price, not so we
can become popular, but so wecan become Christ, so we can
heal the sick, cast out devilsand raise the dead.
We need Jesus Christ back in ourchurches.
We need Jesus Christ back inour deliverance ministry.
We need Jesus Christ back inour churches.
We need Jesus Christ back inour deliverance ministry.
We need Jesus Christ back inour prophetic ministry.
(51:46):
We need him.
We're on a race against time.
Christ can come back at anymoment and so many of us are
lost because we're boasting inourselves, we're boasting in our
popularity, we're boasting inour departments of ministry.
We're making our focus on thegift of the Spirit and not on
Christ Jesus and Him crucified.
(52:06):
We need to get back to thegospel because if we get the
gospel right, everything elsewill fall into place.
We need the Holy Spirit, weneed to be baptized in the
Spirit.
We need to cast out devils.
Why?
Because it's part of the GreatCommission to cast out devils.
Why Because it's part of theGreat Commission the cast out
devils, the heal, the sick toraise the dead.
That didn't end.
That is still going on.
(52:27):
But we need to regroup.
We need to get our focus back.
We need to understand that ifwe truly want to see people set
free, then we need to lead themto the cross of Christ and they
need to repent of their sins.
Lead them to the cross ofChrist and they need to repent
of their sins, and that's whenwe're going to see a dramatic
shift.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
And turnaround in deliverance ministry.
Guys, I think we just attendedchurch and that is Pastor Tyler.
So if you're ever in Carmel,indiana, stop by Revelation
Church and if you live by there,get there.
That's what you can lookforward to.
I was very touched hearing hisheart, hearing his passion about
(53:04):
how we have to get back to coreChristianity, get back to
repentance of sin.
When we go through exorcismsessions with people, we have
them repent of sin.
Right, because there is willfulsin, where people willfully do
something that they know iswrong.
That is sin.
(53:24):
So we have them confess andrepent of that sin.
And then there's this kind ofhey, I didn't know it was sin.
So we have them repent of thatsin as well.
Because the Bible says thisconfess your sins, confess them,
and he is faithful and just toforgive you of them.
(53:45):
And here's the kicker cleanseyou from all unrighteous, but
you have to confess your sin.
I echo Pastor Tyler's passionof repentance.
It's essential when it comes todeliverance.
I hope that you have found thisepisode interesting.
(54:09):
Okay, pastor Tyler and I havehopped on a couple of horses and
blazed some trails all over theplace and there's smoke behind
us and we're still going forward.
What I hope you take away fromthis is number one finding a
(54:29):
church that teaches the entirecounsel of the Word of God and
focuses on the gospel, thesalvation message.
That's what Christianity isabout.
The Messiah is coming.
All through the Old Testamentthe Messiah is coming.
The Messiah is coming.
The Messiah comes, repent ofyour sins, he dies for our sins.
He's buried.
He rose from the dead.
(54:51):
Right this is the gospelmessage.
And then serving Christ till wedraw our last breath reading
that Bible daily, right.
So that's the takeaway.
Find a church that teaches theentire council, just not
feel-good, psychological,self-help messages.
I think the other takeaway thatI would like for you to have is
(55:13):
that deliverance is somethingthat takes a lot of time and a
lot of repentance and a lot oflife change.
Lifestyle change that's thesecond thing.
And then the third thing Ithink all of us and I'm speaking
to myself too we should takefrom this is finding a church
(55:34):
that's balanced.
So I would encourage you toeven consider going back and
re-listening to this episode andallow the Holy Spirit to
challenge you.
If you're listening to this andyou feel agitated and irritated
at what's being spoken, that's agood thing, because it means
(55:54):
it's challenging you.
You're uncomfortable, that's agood thing.
When I go to church, I'muncomfortable.
Last week I was leaving with mykids and I said whew.
And they said what, dad?
I said that's a tough one.
I said I got some repenting todo.
Man, that was tough.
And they just laughed at me ina good way.
(56:14):
But I leave challenge.
My minister challenges me.
He helps us feel uncomfortableand so if you feel uncomfortable
hearing some of this stuff,that's a good thing, man.
It's challenging you.
Don't just shut it off and notlisten.
I encourage you to go back andlisten to it again and pray to
the Lord.
And it's what I said multipletimes through this episode we
(56:37):
are in the last days.
That's my personal opinion.
I've never seen it this bad.
It's really bad and I thinkmost of you listening understand
that it's really bad.
It's really bad.
Get cleaned up.
Get cleaned up.
Let's all, myself included getour hearts aligned with Christ.
(56:57):
Get the sin out of our life.
The compromise.
Remember what God said in theBible.
You never hear this preached intoday's time.
This is never preached whereGod said either be hot or cold.
I'd rather you be hot or cold,not lukewarm, or I'll spew you
out of my mouth, spit you out ofmy mouth.
(57:18):
He's like pick a side, don't belukewarm.
Really frustrates God whenpeople are lukewarm.
Right, going to church, doingthe church thing, but living
half in the world, half inchurch, all that kind I mean.
I've been there myselfpersonally.
There came a point where it wastime to sell out, and I did.
And then I went throughexorcism sessions and got
(57:42):
cleaned up, repented of all thesin and am serving Christ
faithfully.
But I am still a broken, sinfulman, as are all of us.
That's why Christ died on thecross.
We're not perfect.
We sin, we repent, we get up,we dust our butt off and we get
back on the bike.
I always tell people get on thebike and pedal, and when you
(58:03):
fall off and you sin, you get up.
I'm sorry, lord, I confess itexactly what it was.
Dust your butt off, get on thebike and keep pedaling.
Who makes it to the end isthose who don't give up.
That's who makes it.
So I hope you felt challengedby this.
I'm going to come to Tyler in aminute.
I hope you have felt challengedby this, inspired, motivated
(58:27):
for change, and I share this.
I brought Pastor Tyler onbecause I wanted to encourage
you guys who are listening.
We're not here to beat you up.
We're not here to beat up otherministries.
We're just talking real, likewe're just being real.
We don't have it all figuredout.
(58:48):
We're not perfect, wedefinitely have opinions, but we
at least got to get back tothat core doctrine, core
Christianity, and clean upbefore Jesus.
All of us, myself included,tyler, I'm going to come back to
you.
At the end of every episode, Ialways ask my guests to offer
(59:11):
words of encouragement to theaudience.
There are people listeningright now who are upset at what
they've heard.
They're upset by it and I sayit's a good thing to be
challenged in that way.
There are some listening thatknow that they have to clean up
and the Holy Spirit's working ontheir heart and they're going
(59:32):
to do it.
I know that in my knower thereare people who need deliverance
and they're still torn on it.
It's hard for people to humblethemselves, pastor Tyler, and
come for help.
They don't want to admit thatthey have problems.
They don't want to go intotheir pain and look back at the
past.
They want to act like it's notthere, and so they live with
(59:55):
demons and they're tormented.
There's listeners like thatthat keep coming back because
they know this is true.
They just struggle with thehumility in coming.
And then there are peoplelistening right now who
absolutely need deliverance.
They know they're on fire.
They're like this is it, man?
This was it, this was themessage I'm coming for
deliverance, justin.
All kinds of listeners, allkinds of ages, but they keep
(01:00:19):
coming back because they knowthat this is truth For all of
these people.
At the end here, tyler, what isit that you would like to share
with them from your heart andin a compassionate way to
encourage and inspire theaudience here?
What is it that you have onyour heart that you would like
(01:00:41):
to share with them?
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
I would say that repentance is a good thing.
I think the biggest problemthat people have, you know, kind
of going back just into how youopened up this podcast this
afternoon is that you know, alot of pastors don't agree with
deliverance.
A lot of people have a hardtime with it.
I think the reason why isbecause I think, deep down
(01:01:05):
inside they're trying to runaway from themselves and if they
have a demon, I think thatautomatically what goes into
their mind is that they're a badperson.
And here's the thing is theBible teaches that there's none
good but God.
We all need Jesus.
We all need to repent of oursins and believe the gospel of
Jesus Christ to be saved, andit's by the grace of God that
(01:01:28):
we're able to receivedeliverance.
It's a good thing.
It doesn't mean that you'rehorrible and there's no help for
you.
It means that Christ loves youdespite your sin, and it's his
will for you to be free.
And the word of God also saysthat God chastises those who he
loves.
So I went through a season andI want to tell the listeners I
went through a season where Ijust felt like all I was doing
(01:01:51):
was repenting and all I wasdoing was getting rebuked and
corrected by the Lord, byspiritual leaders, by mentors,
and I was trying to figure outwhy.
And after I went through thatseason, it's like a lot of the
rebuke and the corrections andall of those things kind of just
went away and I began to hungerfor it.
It's like God, I want tocontinue to grow.
(01:02:12):
Where did all this stuff go?
And I know that doesn't makesense, but there's something
about repenting and humblingyourself and desiring the
correction of the Lord, becauseyou know when the correction of
the Lord is there, that he'snear.
If you were raised by two goodparents and they disciplined you
, they didn't do that from afar,did they?
(01:02:33):
They didn't do that on anotherstate or another country.
No, they brought you near tothem and they corrected you.
Why?
Because they love you, and Ithink it's so important to
understand that repentance isn'ta bad thing.
Repentance doesn't mean you'renot accepted and unless you get
everything right, then I'm goingto love you, and I think that's
what people instinctively thinkand that's not the heart of
(01:02:56):
true repentance.
The heart of true repentance isto understand what Christ did at
the cross and to understandthat God is holy and righteous
and that your unholiness, yourunrighteousness, can't coexist
with Christ in you.
It can't, and that's why theBible says that carnality is
enmity against God.
(01:03:16):
It wages war against Godbecause it doesn't understand
the things of God.
And so when God, since Godloves you, he's going to correct
you.
Since God loves you, you'regoing to hear messages.
That's not going to feel sogood, but that doesn't come from
a place of rejection, thatcomes from a place of, hey, I
love you, come back to me.
This is what true love lookslike.
This is what you need to do.
This is where I'm leading you.
(01:03:39):
I mean, just think about, in theExodus, okay, when you had all
the people of Israel, okay,being pulled out of Egypt.
Right, they were in thewilderness.
Right, they didn't like it,they didn't like where they were
, they didn't like the way theyfelt, but they forgot to
understand where they werepulled out of.
And I just want to encourageyou today.
If you're a born again believerin Christ Jesus, you've been
(01:04:00):
pulled out of darkness and youare in the marvelous light of
Christ.
And if God is correcting you,it's only coming from a place of
love, compassion and mercy.
Receive the correction of theLord, repent of your sins,
because God loves you and Godwants to take you higher, and I
want to close with this.
There's a passage of scriptureand forgive me, I don't remember
(01:04:21):
the reference at the top of myhead but Jesus said unless you
lose your life, you find it.
And I think a lot of us skipover that passage, or a lot of
ministers don't preach thatpassage because it's too
profound.
What do you mean?
I have to lose my life to gainit.
And I think a lot of us aretrying to hold on to our lives
with everything that we have,instead of saying you know what,
(01:04:42):
lord, I'm going to lose it foryou because I see your worth, I
see your majesty and I see yourgreat love for me.
So I trust you with my life andI lay it down.
So I encourage everyone that'slistening to the sound of my
voice that Jesus loves you andhe is worthy of your pursuit and
he is worth laying your lifedown for him.
(01:05:04):
You will never regret thatdecision and I bless you all in
Jesus name.
And Justin, I want to thank youfor this wonderful opportunity
to be on this podcast.
It's been an honor, it's been aprivilege.
God bless you all in Jesus name.
Welcome to episode 26 of the Blind Exorcist podcast.
I'm your host, justin D, andI'm beyond excited to bring you
this episode.
First, I want to extend aheartfelt thank you for tuning
in and being a part of thisgrowing community.
Your continued support trulymakes this podcast possible.
(00:24):
In today's episode, I have anincredible conversation lined up
with Pastor Tyler Maness fromRevelation Church in Carmel,
indiana.
I'm diving deep into how PastorTyler is boldly integrating
exorcism into his church'sministry, a topic that's sure to
(00:45):
challenge and inspire you.
But before we jump in, I'd lovefor you to subscribe to the
podcast and share it with yourfamily, friends and on your
social media platforms.
If you feel moved to supportthe show.
It's easy Just tap support theshow in the show notes.
Your contribution directlyfuels this ministry, allowing me
(01:10):
to keep bringing you theseimpactful episodes.
I also encourage you to sharethis particular episode with any
pastor or minister you know.
It's a powerful opportunity tochallenge their theological
beliefs, especially around theidea that Christians cannot have
demons.
(01:31):
In this episode, pastor Tylerdoesn't hold back.
He shares the essentials ofexorcism ministry, his approach
to working with congregationmembers in need of deliverance
and his deep passion for thegospel and preaching the full
counsel of God's Word.
This is one episode you won'twant to miss.
(01:51):
It's going to be eye-opening,inspiring and thought-provoking.
You can visit Pastor Tyler'schurch website and watch his
sermons using Facebook Live.
You can check out the sermontimes over at
revelationchurchcarmelcom.
I'll put a link to his churchwebsite in the show notes
(02:13):
Without any further ado.
Let's dive in and get started,tyler.
Welcome to the Blind Exorcist,hey.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Justin, it's great to be here, brother.
I've been looking forward tothis opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule
and for jumping on here todiscuss a really important point
, I think, and last episode Iinterviewed a minister who was a
free Methodist minister who'sintegrating exorcism as a
function of the church.
(02:48):
That's not the driving factor.
This should be present in everychurch denomination and body
that's Protestant.
I wanted to bring Tyler ontothe show because he is yet again
another credible minister thathas a church where he is
(03:13):
starting to and exorcism and itgoes back to the theological
training that they go through inseminary.
(03:34):
But guess what?
I've met pastors and havetalked to pastors who have
people in their congregationcome to them and manifest demons
, okay, and they don't know whatto do.
Why don't they know what to do?
Because in seminary they aretaught that Christians cannot
(03:57):
have demons.
That is a lie.
We had a pastor recently get ahold of us because a woman in
his congregation now check thisout came to him.
He's done everything biblicalcounseling, taking her through
the word of God, fasting, hadher go to a counselor, all this
(04:19):
stuff and she still kept coming.
And she still kept comingtelling him things are moving in
my home.
I hear voices in my head thatare telling me to kill myself
and I'm getting visitations inthe middle of the night.
So this pastor has no clue howto help this person.
(04:41):
He's done all he can.
He's done what seminary toldhim to do Coach them, disciple
them through the word of God.
It will renew their mind andeverything will be fine.
This pastor reached out to usand said everything is not fine.
I need help.
I have questioned my trainingand theology.
(05:03):
I believe that this woman hasdemons.
Could you please help her andguess what we did?
And she had demons and theywere expelled through the
authority and compassion ofJesus Christ and she was set
free.
And this minister had to acceptthe fact that this woman who
(05:27):
had been attending his churchfor 30 years the grandmotherly
type, sweet Christian woman thatbakes the casseroles for your
church gatherings that womanyeah, that's who she was Turns
out she was molested as a childand demons entered her there.
I mention a lot of that becauseTyler is a minister who believes
(05:53):
in exorcism.
He has actually went throughthe International School of
Exorcism.
He is educated, he is trainedwell and he helps the members in
his local congregation whennecessary.
His church, his thrust, is notall about the hype of
deliverance and head spinningand vomiting, and all of that.
(06:17):
He has a very balanced approach.
I'm excited to have you on theshow, tyler, so we can begin to
explain to people that not onlycan this be a function of the
church, it should be, and,secondly, it can be balanced.
So let me come over to you,tyler.
First of all, let's start backat the beginning.
(06:39):
How did you get interested inbecoming a pastor and starting a
church?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, justin, I think that's an excellent question.
So I believe that God callspeople to ministry.
I believe that it comes withdivine calling and since I was a
kid I just felt that call andthat urge to go that direction.
I've just always had a heartfor ministry.
My dad is a pastor and so Igrew up practically art for
ministry.
My dad is a pastor, and so Igrew up practically I grew up in
ministry, and about four yearsago I had an opportunity to
(07:09):
plant a church in Carmel,indiana, and that's where it all
started for me.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's awesome, and after you've planted your church
, obviously membership startedcoming.
What was it that made youdecide to go to Dr Larson's
International School of Exorcism?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, so when it came to the School of Exorcism.
So I had a little bit of abackground in deliverance.
I've had mentors in my lifeprior to the School of Exorcism.
That gave me a foundation.
But I was starting to comeacross some cases where I just
wasn't getting anywhere withthem.
And you know, at this point I'mlike 30 exorcisms in.
I'm new at deliverance ministryand had a lot of successful
(07:55):
cases up to this point.
And then I just started hittinga wall after a wall after a wall
you know what I mean and I justwasn't getting anywhere.
Demons weren't manifesting, orpeople just weren't getting free
, or it's like a demon wouldmanifest and not come up fully.
And so I was trying to figureout what was going on and I got
discouraged and I went back andI just got alone with God and I
(08:16):
was praying.
I was like God, what's going on?
Why am I hitting these walls?
Why am I not seeing people free?
Why am I not seeing people free?
And I kid you not, this is whathappened to me, justin.
As I was praying, I saw apicture come to my mind of Bob
Larson's Curse-Breaking Book andliterally I went and Googled it
afterwards and it was the samecover, art and everything, and I
heard the Holy Spirit tell meto read it, and after I started
(08:39):
reading it, I really waslearning a lot.
I was like man, this is what Ineed to know.
This is the reason why I'mhaving all these problems.
I need to go deeper with this.
And shortly after that, Iapplied for the School of
Exorcism.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So you go through the International School of
Exorcism, which I alwaysrecommend for people to take
who's considering getting intodeliverance.
Larson has a process, astandardization that can be
trained.
That's why he has a school, sothat you can be trained in his
methodology and follow it, andit works.
(09:14):
I've been through it personallyfor 14 months.
If you've not heard my story,you can listen to episode one
Overcoming the Darkness.
This is why I became anexorcist, because Christ freed
me and I want to help others.
It's just a heart of compassion.
But the process people learn itfrom scratch, from books, from
(09:35):
YouTube videos, and it's just ahodgepodge.
There's not a systematicapproach to learning how to do
this and Larson brings that tothe table.
Tyler, you've went through this.
There's a standardization to itand I think that's great
because there really isn't anyout there, but Larson brings
that to the table.
What are your thoughts on hisprocess, methodology and
(10:00):
standardization?
I think that's an excellentquestion.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I'm all for it.
I love his methodology, I lovehis strategies, I love his
standard, especially when we'retalking about generational curse
breaking.
In my opinion, there's no otherway to do it and I think that's
why a lot of people don't getfree.
Personally and I say thisrespectfully, but I think it's
because a lot of ministers eventhough there are very few out
(10:23):
there that's practicingdeliverance ministry I think
very few don't understand theconcept of generational curse
breaking.
So when we're talking aboutgenerational curse breaking,
we're talking about thecomplexities of inner healing,
how far that can go, especiallywhen we're talking about
dissociations, soul parts andalso just the depth of trauma.
(10:45):
I think that Bob's strategiesare gold.
I really do.
I believe that God gave him anunderstanding and I believe that
you know, without boasting, inBob, but I believe that Bob is a
brilliant man.
I believe that God really usedhim in this area.
And people ask me.
They're like why do you stickwith methods and procedures?
And I tell them it's because itworks and people get free.
(11:06):
They're like why do you stickwith methods and procedures?
And I tell them it's because itworks and people get free.
Especially when we're talkingabout generational curses and
also when it comes to trauma,there needs to be methods in
place, we need to be educated,and I think that one of the
biggest problems that we'rehaving in the deliverance
ministry right now it's either.
It is just all about the up andout method without
understanding hey, how manydemons are there?
(11:27):
Why is this person hurting?
What's the trauma in thisperson's background?
All we do is we're just likecome out, jezebel, you know, and
it's like, well, that couldwork, but also you could do a
lot more harm to that personbecause you don't know what's
going on.
You don't know the trauma intheir background, you know.
You don't know how manygenerational curses they have.
You don't know if theirgrandparents, you know, are
(11:48):
witches.
You don't really know what'sgoing on until you implement
more methods and procedures.
You know.
Also, I'm all about theprophetic, but I even think that
sometimes prophetic movements,if they're not careful, they can
just rely solely on theirgiftings and they're not really
taking time to understand.
You know, how did the demonsget in the person?
How many demons are reallythere?
(12:09):
Why is the person hurting?
It just seems to become ultrademon heavy and I feel like,
even though a lot of people outthere mean well, I feel like
we're missing a key ingredientwhen it comes to deliverance
ministry, and it's the heart ofa person.
Let's not treat people likethey're demons.
Let's figure out why they'rehurting and what opened up the
door for demons to be there.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, that's an excellent point, and when you're
calling people up to an altarat the end of a service for
deliverance, there's not time tosit down with them and explore
their life.
There's not we do, and I'vementioned this before a
spiritual profile where we haveprobably 50, 30, 40, 50
(12:52):
questions on there where weassess the person's life, what
mental health conditions, whattraumas they've been through.
There's all kinds of questions,the family dynamics.
So under Larson you spend a lotof time with people and I think
a lot of the deliveranceministries that are out there
(13:16):
they don't spend a lot of timewith people and that's why it
doesn't work, because there aregenerational curses and there
are traumas that need to beworked through and that takes
time and our sessions typicallylast two hours.
Every session Our first sessionwith clients we go through
their intake questions and thatalone takes two hours.
(13:36):
That's how much time we spendwith people to understand their
heart and their hurts and theirlife.
Recently we were working with aclient and she was older.
She was probably maybe 62,mid-60s, so she had a life of
(13:58):
trauma, a life, and it took usfour hours, pretty close to four
hours, to just go through herintake questions and take notes
as we talked about her life, theamount of trauma that she had
been through, the sexual abuse,the rapes, the molestations, the
(14:21):
multiple husbands, theabandonments, the divorces, the
impact on the children.
On and on it goes, and so we'reassessing this as exorcists,
we're documenting, we're takingnotes that we can build a case
to say here's the pattern.
It started on the mother's sidewith she was molested, then her
(14:45):
mother was molested and thisgoes back to a generational
curse.
It's involved.
Tyler, back to you.
When you work with a client inyour congregation as a pastor,
can you share with the audience?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yes, I would love to, and also I wanted to just say I
love what you're talking about.
I think this conversation isneeded.
I think people need tounderstand how important
deliverance ministry really isand to do it effectively,
because people are hurting,there are souls at stake and I
just think it's so importantthat, if we're going to practice
deliverance, that we actuallyunderstand that there's a
(15:27):
soulish aspect to this.
There's people's emotions thattake place.
I like to say that, asdeliverance ministers or as
exorcists, we're actuallydealing with the human psyche.
We're dealing with whathappened to somebody's mind and
even though we're notpsychologists we're not licensed
counselors necessarily but wehave to understand how the mind
works and how demons behave andhow demons mess with people's
(15:50):
minds, because I just think it'sso dangerous to treat people
like they're a demon and goingback and trying to just
piggybacking off of what youwere saying with ministers, just
spending 30 minutes with peoplecommanding Jezebel to go.
In my opinion and I say thisout of respect, I don't say this
with impure motives, but I justthink a lot of it is because
(16:11):
people really don't care,especially ministers.
They really don't care aboutwhat's hurting you.
They just want what's there out, and I think that's the
disconnect.
I think we need compassion inthis ministry.
We have to care for people'ssouls.
We have to care for people'shearts.
What's going on with you?
Why are you hurting?
Who hurt you?
Who rejected you, who abandonedyou?
(16:31):
And as a pastor, I take more ofa discipleship approach.
I'll get to know a person inthe congregation.
I will make sure that theyunderstand that Jesus loves them
and they understand the gospeland they establish lordship with
Christ.
And also I'll have them fillout an intake form, as you were
talking about earlier.
(16:52):
And so then we go through thedeliverance process with them
and in the meantime, as we'regoing through the deliverance
process, we're also teachingthem and equipping them how to
engage in spiritual warfare, howto fight back, how to recognize
when demons are attacking them,how to take their thoughts
captive, and so we really walkhand in hand with people to the
best of our ability to ensurethat they're doing everything
(17:16):
that they can do to get free andstay free and fight back in
Jesus' name.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
It saddens me that Christians the majority do not
understand spiritual warfarewhatsoever.
Pastor Chris, in the lastepisode if you've not heard that
about the free Methodistminister I interviewed, can
Christians have Demons listen toit?
I interviewed, can Christianshave Demons Listen to it?
And he's all about discipleshipand discipling people and
training them in thefoundational core concepts of
(17:45):
Christianity, and just that.
People are untrained,undiscipled.
They go to churches that justtell them that God loves you and
the grace message He'll forgiveyou for whatever you do, and so
they live this illusion ofChristianity.
(18:07):
How many pastors teach abouthell?
That you're going to burn inhell, where there's going to be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You never hear it.
You know why Because they careabout numbers teeth.
You never hear it.
You know why Because they careabout numbers and I don't mean
to come across as judgy, but weare in the last days, like, in
my personal opinion, christ isgoing to be returning soon.
(18:29):
This is why there's so muchdemonic activity in culture.
This is why it's so open andunashamed.
People don't care.
I can go into a Starbucks andsit down any day of the week
with a witch or a warlock that'sin there having a coffee and
just talk to them like it'snormal, because culturally it is
(18:50):
, and so it's a very complexsituation.
So back to your point though,tyler, about the discipleship,
teaching them the Word of Godand the foundational concepts
that we are sinners and if wedie living in sin you will go to
hell.
That's just the Bible.
(19:10):
Don't hear any of that anymore.
And then teaching spiritualwarfare.
And then teaching spiritualwarfare.
The people that I put throughexorcism sessions.
They absolutely have nounderstanding of spiritual
warfare.
They don't know how to fightSatan.
They don't even know thatyou're supposed to quote the
(19:37):
Bible against Satan when heattacks your mind.
They don't understand anything.
Why is that?
Why don't they understand Satan?
Why don't they understandspiritual warfare?
Because it's not taught.
It's not taught what is taught.
God loves you.
You're special Sin all you want.
Ask forgiveness.
You'll make it to heaven.
You'll be just fine.
You'll be just fine Sincerely.
(20:06):
That is the generalized theme ofmany Christian churches in
today's environment, and so it'ssad, because we work with
clients that ask where can I goto a church that actually
preaches the gospel of JesusChrist?
It's so hard for people to finda church that preaches the
gospel, the whole gospel, theentirety of God's Word.
(20:28):
A lot of the churches now havefallen away from the Christian
model and they are like thetransvestite pastors Christian
model and they are like thetransvestite pastors, homosexual
marriages, all of that kind ofstuff.
A lot of the denominations havefell away into that and it's
limited people's ability to findchurches.
(20:49):
They struggle to find a churchthat actually has conservative
Christian teaching establishedin the Word of God.
That's crazy.
Who would ever thought thatthey struggle to find a church?
And Pastor Tyler is one of thosechurches that preach the entire
(21:09):
counsel of God's Word in Carmel, indiana.
I'm going to put a link to hiswebsite so if anyone's in that
area or you're passing through,you can visit.
I'm going to put a link to hiswebsite so if anyone's in that
area or you're passing through,you can visit.
I mentioned this to come backto you, tyler, because I know
for you you want deliverance tosimply be a function of your
(21:30):
church, not the entirety of it,and I agree with that.
Deliverance should just simplybe a part of the church, and I
agree with that.
Deliverance should just simplybe a part of the church, just
like the Catholic Church hasexorcism ministry.
It's just a ministry for ifsomebody needs help, it's not
the entire thrust of thedenomination, and it shouldn't
(21:50):
be that way in the Protestantchurches either.
And, tyler, this is yourpassion and heart as well.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, absolutely, justin.
I love this.
I feel like we're on the samepage, I feel like we have the
same heartbeat for this matter,you know.
First, before I even really goanywhere in this topic, I really
want to just draw everyone'sattention to Acts, chapter 20,
starting in verse number 26.
And the Word of God saystherefore I testify to you this
(22:20):
day that I am innocent of theblood of all, for I did not
shrink from declaring to you thewhole counsel of God.
So, especially when it comes topastoral ministry, it's very
important that the focal pointis to preach the whole counsel
of God, and what that means isto preach the entire Bible, to
preach every doctrine of theBible, not just grace alone, not
(22:42):
just faith, but also repentance, also on hell, also on heaven.
We need to preach the wholeBible.
We need to believe that theBible is the holy, inspired,
inerrant, completely true wordof God.
And I think that the biggestproblem that we're having today,
justin, is not just withdeliverance ministry, it's not
(23:04):
even just with propheticministry or any other type of
ministry.
I think the biggest problem isactually much deeper than that.
I think we're having a gospelproblem.
I really believe that we, as thechurch has gotten away from the
true gospel, the real gospel ofthe Lord Jesus Christ, and the
real gospel has very little todo about you and has everything
(23:27):
to do about Christ.
I like to tease people, butwhat I say is that the church no
longer preaches theologyanymore, which is all about God
or all about Christ.
Now we preach we have exchangedit and now we preach me-ology,
which means it's all about me,and I think that it's very scary
(23:48):
.
You know, you look at theconditions of our world right
now, justin, and, like you werementioning a few minutes ago,
going to Starbucks having aconversation with a witch is now
considered normal with culture,right, but at the same time,
it's well.
How do we get to this point?
You know, why are we here rightnow?
Some can argue it's becausewe're in the last days, and I
(24:08):
agree with that.
But I also think it's becausethe church hasn't been doing its
job, and I say thatrespectfully.
I'm not trying to bash anybody.
I don't have a single church inmind or a pastor in mind.
I have no vendetta, but I'mjust speaking from my heart.
Here is that we have gotten awayfrom the true gospel of Jesus
Christ.
We've gotten away from doctrine, we've gotten away from
theology, we've gotten away fromdeliverance.
(24:28):
It was very normal, even withinProtestant circles at least
with some, not all, but it wasvery normal for them to practice
deliverance too in churchhistory, until the rise of
psychology came about 100 yearsago.
So you can even look at that inhistory it's like psychology
replaced deliverance ministry inthe church, and maybe that's
(24:50):
another conversation in and ofitself.
My heart for ministry or withinthe church is that deliverance
is not the focal point and itshould not overshadow the
overall ministry approach, butthe emphasis should be on
integrating deliverance in abalanced manner within the
ministry.
So therefore, as the pastor atRevelation Church, I found it
(25:13):
crucial to prioritize awell-rounded approach to
pastoral ministry andincorporate deliverance as a
vital part of approach topastoral ministry and
incorporate deliverance as avital part of our mission.
We're not closet deliveranceministers at Revelation Church.
We don't hide what we believe.
We just don't make it the mainfocus.
What we make the main focus isChrist and the gospel.
We want the gospel to be theprimary focus.
(25:33):
We want to see people repent oftheir sins and believe that
Jesus Christ is their Lord andSavior, the only way to inherit
salvation, the only way to God,the only way to heaven, and with
that we have to understand thatwe are sinners and we're
desperately in need of a Savior.
You know, and here's the thingis, this has been really
challenging and I don't know howmuch you want to talk about
(25:54):
this aspect and maybe we cantalk about it more later.
But there's been a lot ofissues that I've seen as a
pastor within deliverance, andit's really because there's a
battle of these extremes goingon, where it's either everything
has to be deliverance or not atall, and maybe we can talk
about that in a minute.
(26:14):
So I just want to jump pastthat, but I would really like to
set camp there in a minute.
So I just want to jump pastthat, but I would really like to
set camp there in a little bit,if that's okay with you.
But I just think that there's alot of problems and it's time
to re-evaluate and return to amore balanced approach to
ministry within the church.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And you know.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
With that being said, if we're talking about
deliverance, you know I have noproblem with people saying well,
you know, we need to build adeliverance center, or if they
have a deliverance ministry thatis connected to a church, but
they're doing their own thing.
You know, I understand that andthat's fine.
I think where the disconnectcomes for me is when you say I'm
a pastor and all I do is preachon deliverance.
It's no, you are called topreach on the whole counsel of
(26:55):
God, and what we're seeing iswe're seeing a huge disconnect
here.
Even in prophetic circles, it'slike everything becomes about
the prophetic.
So it's here we are talkingabout blood moons or the return
of the gods, or you know what itmeans.
There's just a lot of things,and we're getting into the
political sphere and all thesethings are going on, and even
though I think that there's atime and a place for those
(27:17):
things, it should not be thefocal point of ministry and it
doesn't matter what office thatyou walk in.
What is primary is the gospelof Jesus Christ.
Christ died for sinners and wehave to preach Christ, jesus and
him crucified.
I think it's so important and Ithink that's the biggest
condition of where we're attoday is that we have failed, as
(27:38):
ministers, to preach the truegospel of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Wow, you have my head spinning in a million different
directions.
But yeah, this is all good.
This is a good message for allof us, myself included, pastor
Tyler included because we've gotto reground ourselves in
Christian doctrine.
We have to reground ourselvesin core theology and doctrine of
(28:06):
our Christian religion and wehaven't.
We've just piecemealed partsout and rode those horses, so to
speak, and people are gallopingalong because it feels good
just talking about God's love.
It feels good talking aboutgrace, but that's just part of
(28:27):
the message.
How often do you hear a ministertalking about suffering?
Not too often.
Talking about suffering not toooften.
Why?
Because it doesn't keep peoplein the church.
It's about numbers and they gotto pay bills.
It's about bringing money in.
Now, I'm not saying everyminister is this way, but there
(28:50):
is an element of truth to thiswhat I'm saying.
If you're getting up sayingthat you're suffering because
God's purifying you, or perhapsGod is disciplining you for your
rebellion against what he hasasked you to give up or do in
life, hebrews, chapter 12, verse6 tells us for the Lord
(29:15):
disciplines those he loves andhe punishes each one he accepts
as his child.
When is the last time you haveheard a message like this, right
, that doesn't go over real wellwith people.
When you get up in front of theChristian church and say you
know what Christianity can costyou everything.
(29:37):
It's going to cost youabsolutely everything.
Jesus said in Matthew 10, verse37, if you love your father or
mother more than you love me,you are not worthy of being mine
.
Or if you love your son ordaughter more than me, you are
not worthy of being mine.
This concept of giving up allis repeated in Luke 9, verse 23.
(30:01):
Then he said to the crowd Ifany of you wants to be my
follower, you must give up yourown way, take up your cross
daily and follow me.
You don't hear stuff like thatanymore.
But that is the counsel, theentire counsel of God's Word.
You never hear a minister sayyou know what?
(30:21):
Paul was beheaded in Rome forhis faith.
You don't hear stuff like that.
You know what you hear inAmericanized Christianity, and I
should say WesternizedChristianity Doesn't matter,
could be in Europe, it could bein Australia, canada.
The westernized Christianity isall about prosperity, love and
(30:43):
grace.
That's not the entire counselof God's Word, and so part of
that entire counsel isdeliverance.
Ministry is exorcism.
A third of Christ's ministrywas exorcism.
We got to get back to beinggrounded in doctrine and this is
why I've been bringing on Ibrought on Pastor Chris and I
(31:05):
brought on Pastor Tyler was tochallenge all of our thinking,
including myself, about gettingback to core, foundational
doctrine and getting grounded inChrist.
We've lost it.
We've lost it.
We've absolutely lost it.
We're sitting around in churchdrinking cups of coffee and
(31:25):
eating cookies For real, thathappens and singing songs all
about ourselves, how God lovesus and he's faithful and he's
going to help us.
And then you hear a message ofhey, if you have a tough time
this week, know God's with you.
Do something special for afriend, maybe.
Buy him a coffee.
That type of stuff is beingpreached.
(31:48):
Buy a person a meal behind youin McDonald's and just tell them
God loves you.
I'm not saying that's bad, butthis is the just.
It's not true Christianity.
True Christianity is what readit.
It's in the Bible.
What happened to the disciples?
(32:10):
Right, that's true Christianity.
They went around preaching,winning people to Jesus Christ,
and they suffered for it.
They were persecuted.
Oh, we don't talk about that.
That's going to make the peoplequit coming to my church that
you could be persecuted.
(32:30):
You might lose your life forJesus Christ.
Oh, don't talk about that.
We're not going to get as muchmoney coming in.
So, anyhow, there's a lot herethat we're discussing, but I
think the underlying theme isgetting grounded, coming back to
our roots as Christians,getting back into solid doctrine
(32:54):
, and part of that soliddoctrine is that Christians can
have demons and require exorcism, or what some call deliverance,
and historically, exorcism isdocumented after the death of
Christ.
There are historical documentsthat mention exorcism.
(33:17):
It was performed frequently bythe early church.
For example, in his secondapology, justin Martyr, born 100
AD and died 165 AD, mentionsthat many Christians by the name
of Jesus Christ were castingout demons and evil spirits.
(33:38):
Another one, eusebius, born 260AD and died 339 AD, records
various miracles and exorcismsperformed by early Christians.
He references the power ofexorcisms as evidence of the
divine truth of Christianity andthe authority given by Christ
(34:01):
to his followers.
There are many more past thesetwo men.
So if early church historianswere documenting exorcism as a
normal function of the churchafter the death of Jesus Christ,
who roughly died between 30 ADand 33 AD, why aren't current
pastors teaching this tocongregations and performing
(34:25):
exorcisms?
So this isn't anything strangeand bizarre.
It's just we have to wrestlewith this westernized version of
Christianity and come back tothe roots of our faith.
Come back to it, get grounded,sell out to Jesus Christ right.
(34:46):
Get rid of sin in your life.
Don't just keep sinning.
Throw the stuff out, quit doingwhat you're doing.
That's sin.
Come back to Jesus Christ fully, get rid of your demons that
compel you to do things rightand just prepping yourself for
the return of christ.
Getting into a church thatteaches the entire council.
(35:07):
It took me a long time to finda church, guys.
A long time Because all thechurches that I would go to were
what I'm explaining God lovesyou.
They're like psychologicalself-help messages.
But I wanted the entire counciland I finally found a church
that does this.
(35:27):
And my minister right now isgoing through the book of Ezra,
verse by verse, historically,breaking it down, relating it to
our lives so we couldunderstand the Bible, and he's
taking the whole counsel ofGod's Word, the whole counsel.
(35:48):
He'll look at the concepts inthe New Testament and break
those down.
He'll look at the concepts inthe Old Testament and he teaches
about hell, that there is areal hell, that Jesus taught a
lot about hell, weeping andgnashing of teeth and all of
that.
Praise God, I was able to finda church that teaches the entire
(36:10):
doctrine.
You can find that too.
That's my encouragement to youis to really you know, this is
kind of a wake-up call foreveryone, myself included, like
we got to get our heads back inthe game.
It's not about going to churchon Sunday and hearing happy,
feel-good messages and then allweek long, not even read the
(36:32):
Bible, maybe listen to Christianmusic on the way home from work
, maybe open a YouTube videoonce a week or a couple times a
week.
That's not Christianity.
Christianity has to do withcomplete surrenderance to Jesus
Christ, every area of our life,and that's a process that
doesn't happen overnight.
(36:53):
That's part of the journey withJesus.
We give it up bit by bit, stepby step.
I'm not saying we have to beperfect, but if we get back to
those core doctrines, Iencourage you to find a church
that focuses on the gospelmessage of Jesus Christ that he
died for our sins, that we aresinful people in need of a
(37:17):
Savior.
My pastor integrates this truthinto every sermon, always
inviting the congregation togive their lives to Jesus Christ
.
Why?
Because the mission ofChristians is to lead others to
Christ.
That's the heart of the gospelmessage.
Oh, there's so much there thatis just overlooked in today's
(37:40):
times.
So, tyler, coming back to you,I know discipleship's big for
you, teaching the entire gospelwhen you work with somebody in
your church that needsdeliverance ministry.
What are some of the thingsthat these Christians are
bringing to the table andsharing with you?
(38:01):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I think there's not just like a one-size-fits-all
for this kind of question.
So many of them are hurting,many of them are looking for
freedom, many of them have triedgoing a lot of other places and
, as you mentioned before,they're not finding the help
that they need.
Listen for me personally,justin.
I take a little differentapproach with this.
(38:26):
My perspective's a littledifferent, and the reason why is
and I don't mean to just setcamp here and make this podcast
all about just being gospelfocused, even though I think
that's of vital importance butwhat I noticed for me personally
and this has been one of thebiggest frustrations for me in
ministry that I had to get tothe Lord.
(38:46):
A lot of people come from megachurches or just all these other
churches and what they want isthey want me to help their
pastor.
They would say things like thisto me we love what you're doing
, we love your heart, we lovehow you're preaching the whole
counsel of God, but only if mypastor would do that, and so
(39:07):
it's like they're coming for mefor help.
They don't trust their ownpastor to help them, but they
don't want to leave theircomfort, and I think that's
scary.
And now, please don'tmisunderstand me.
I'm not saying that all thesepeople should just leave their
churches to come to the church Ipastor.
I'm not saying that at all.
What I'm saying is what breaksmy heart is you have all these
people who can't get help fromtheir pastor, but yet they don't
(39:30):
want to leave Egypt.
You see what I'm saying.
They want freedom, just to goback to their lukewarm churches,
just to go back to theirdysfunction, just to go back to
their lukewarm churches, just togo back to their dysfunction,
just to go back to their sin.
And what I do in my approachwhen I'm working with people
one-on-one is okay.
I know you're hurting, I knowpeople have hurt you, okay, but
(39:52):
do you believe the gospel ofJesus Christ?
Do you realize that you're asinner and that you need to
repent of your sins?
And I know that may not bepopular, but it's so, so
important.
And this is what happened to me.
I'll just go ahead and just gofor it, because I, you know, I
planted this church four yearsago, by the grace of God, and we
(40:13):
started to really get a highattendance for just opening the
church and just starting out,because we did deliverance
ministry and we're getting tothis place where now we're
standing room only or we'rerunning out of chairs or people
are outside the door becausethey want freedom and all of
that stuff is great and we'relike man, this is amazing.
But what happened was Justin,it hijacked our ministry because
(40:36):
then people didn't want to comehear the gospel, they just
wanted their demons cast out ofthem.
People didn't want to repent oftheir sins, they just wanted
their problems to go away.
And I got to this place wherepeople are coming from
everywhere and they were comingthrough the doors and then they
would say things like thisthey're like are we going to
have deliverance today?
I said right now we'rescheduled to preach on Romans.
(40:59):
And they're like are you goingto do what a lot of these other
guys do and are we going to seemanifestations?
Are people going to be rollingon the floor or anything like
that?
I said here's the thing,brother.
I said and I just want to behonest with you I said, if
people start manifesting a demonand the anointing is in the
service to do deliverance, thenwe'll cast that demon out of
somebody.
But we're not going to try toorchestrate a situation or get
(41:22):
people up here just to manifestdemons to have a show, and he
didn't like that very much andhe walked out.
He said I want to go to achurch where I'm seeing all
these manifestations and if thisisn't it, then I'm not coming
back.
And I think that's a big issueand, once again, I'm not coming
from this place of hurt, I'mjust coming from this place of
what is going on.
What has the church beenreduced to?
(41:43):
And maybe I'm just in this boatalone because I'm me, justin.
You know enough about me toknow that I'm all about
deliverance.
People need freedom, butdeliverance should not be the
focal point of Christianity.
It should be, as we've talkedabout multiple times already on
this podcast.
It should be a byproduct.
It should be as we've talkedabout multiple times already on
this podcast.
You know it should be abyproduct, this should be a
(42:04):
function of the church, but notthe focal point.
We have to go back to thegospel and right now I'm just
seeing a lot of problems withinthe church at large here in
America.
And this is why because it'sevident that the church mindset
tends to swing between extremesa heavy emphasis on theology to
(42:24):
the exclusion of spirituality,or an intense focus on
spirituality at the expense oftheological understanding.
This has led to anall-or-nothing mentality, be it
spiritual gifts, prophecy ordeliverance.
Consequently, the church haslots of equilibrium and focus.
It's either oh, do we practiceprophecy here?
(42:45):
Okay, then every single service, people need to prophesy.
Do we practice deliverance here?
Okay, then every single servicepeople need to prophesy.
Oh, are you teaching out of thebook of Ezra?
Okay, then this is a teachingchurch.
So every single service itneeds to just be teaching.
Only it's like where did we getto this place?
(43:06):
Part of the whole counsel of Godis incorporating the gifts of
the spirit.
It's incorporating deliverance,as you said.
It's believing the entirety ofthe Bible and implementing it
under the inspiration and theguidance and the anointing of
the Holy ghost and I'm just I'mjust excited right here because
I just feel like this is soimportant to understand.
Is that, yes?
Do we need to go to a churchthat practices deliverance?
Sure, absolutely.
(43:27):
Do we need to find a churchthat believes in all nine gifts
of the Spirit?
Yes, absolutely.
But we need a church thatpreaches the gospel and the
whole counsel of God, thatbelieves in all these other
things.
It's so desperately needed.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Amen.
The gospel and the salvationmessage is the key to it all.
Sorry to interrupt.
Go on, preach it.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
The gospel message is the central theme of Scripture.
It is not simply the basics ofChristianity, but it is the
overarching theme of theentirety of Scripture, which
means it's truly a wonder tobehold.
And that's why the apostle Paulsaid in 1 Corinthians 2.1, and
when I come to you, brothers,did not come proclaiming to you
(44:08):
the testimony of God with loftyspeech or wisdom.
What did he do?
He came and he preached ChristJesus and him crucified.
Or Charles Spurgeon, one of thegreatest preachers that ever
lived, also known as the Princeof Preachers, would find a way
to share the gospel message, nomatter what passage of scripture
he used for his primary text orhis sermon.
So he could be taking Malachi3.10, talking about tithing and
(44:32):
then somehow figure out a way totie that into Melchizedek and
how Melchizedek was a type andshadow of Christ and how
Melchizedek was the high priest.
Now Jesus Christ fulfills thatfunction and you must repent of
your sins and believe the gospelof Jesus Christ.
Why would he do things likethis?
Because Spurgeon understoodthat he understood the vital
importance of the message of thegospel.
(44:53):
This message is the sacred taskthat all faithful preachers,
deliverance ministers, prophets,apostles, teachers.
They must preach and seek tounderstand the power of God and
the preeminence of Christ.
Do you realize that as Jesusstarted in his ministry, he said
we must repent of our sins andbelieve the gospel of God.
(45:14):
You can find that in Mark 1, 14through 15.
Jesus came right out of thegate saying repent and believe.
Martin Luther, the greatreformer, defined the gospel as
God sent his son into the worldto save sinners, crush hell,
overcome death, take away sinand satisfy the law.
That is the gospel of JesusChrist.
(45:36):
The gospel of Jesus Christ saysthat you're awesome, god's
awesome.
Let's follow Jesus becausethat's awesome.
No, you must repent of yoursins.
You must sacrifice your lifefor the things of God.
You must submit to his will.
You must love him, not becauseyou have to work to earn your
salvation, but because he'sworthy of it.
In fact, salvation is by grace,through faith, not by our own
(45:58):
works, and you can find this inEphesians, chapter two, eight
and nine.
So we can't do anything to earnour salvation.
All we have to do is repent andbelieve.
We need to repent and havefaith.
We can do nothing to saveourselves from the penalty of
sin.
Salvation is by grace alone,through faith alone and in
Christ alone, and that's why, inMark 12, 30, jesus said that we
(46:22):
must love the Lord, our God,with all of our hearts, mind,
soul and strength.
We have to understand thatChristianity isn't about how
much God loves me.
God does love you, but he alsowants you to love him, and
that's why this is what Jesusbelieves.
When they ask him, what do youhave to do to become a pastor?
(46:44):
And Jesus said you must loveyour neighbor as yourselves.
Therefore, we must conclude thatwe are mere mortals, lost,
dying in sin, depraved, anddesperately need a savior, and
we have to come to terms withour reality.
And we must believe thatthere's only one person worthy
of our worship and our devotionand our praise, and that is
(47:07):
Jesus Christ.
We must believe that JesusChrist is the only begotten son
of God and regard him as bothfully man and fully God.
We must believe that he becamea man, was born of a virgin,
conceived by the Holy Spirit,lived a sinless life, died on
the cross for our sins, rose onthe third day and is alive
(47:27):
forevermore.
Now I don't know who'slistening to this podcast right
now, and I don't even know ifyou agree with this message, but
I'm here to tell you today thatJesus loves you and he paid the
ultimate price for you.
And if you repent of your sinsand believe the gospel of Jesus
Christ, if you have faith inChrist, you will be saved.
But you have to abandon yourdead works.
You need to sacrifice your lifefor Christ and see.
(47:50):
That's the thing with true,radical biblical Christianity is
that Christ sacrificed his lifefor you so you can sacrifice
your life to him.
We need to understand that.
In early church history, theearly church father Athanasius
said God became like you so youcan become like him.
In other words, he said thatthe son of God became the son of
(48:12):
man so that the sons of men canbecome sons of God.
Don't you realize that JesusChrist didn't die on the cross
to save you, just so you canlive in your sin, just so you
can live in your sin, just soyou can live in your torment,
just so you can live in yourproblems, just so you can be
demonized.
No, no, ma'am, no sir, no,brothers and sisters, christ
died for you so you can betriumphant.
Christ died for you so you canwalk above sin.
(48:35):
Christ died for you so you canbe delivered, set free and made
whole.
Christ died for you so you canlove him with all your heart,
mind, soul and strength.
You have to understand thatbefore you met Christ, your
heart was hardened, your heartwas not regenerated, your heart
was filled with all evil andcontempt.
But when Christ saved you, hepulled you out of darkness and
into his marvelous light.
(48:55):
And that's why it's soimportant, because Jesus said in
Luke 5, 32, I have not come tocall the righteous, but sinners
to repentance.
There is no gospel withoutrepentance.
We need to get back torepentance and we need to get
back to faith.
That's so important.
It's so important.
(49:16):
And why is this important withdeliverance ministry?
Because true, authenticdeliverance ministry works as a
byproduct of the gospel message,and what that means is even in
true deliverance ministry, wehave to focus on repentance and
faith.
We need to renounce the thingsthat we've done, the pacts that
we made with the enemy.
We need to renounce thewitchcraft that we partnered
(49:37):
with in our past.
We have to renounce it andbreak it.
We need to renounce thewitchcraft that we partnered
with in our past.
We have to renounce it andbreak it.
We need to repent unto God.
And what I'm so afraid of,justin, in these times is that
many of us are focusing on adeliverance ministry.
That's void of the gospel.
It's focusing on deliverancethat's void of repentance.
Yes, I understand there's morethan just repentance involved.
(49:59):
We need to renounce things, weneed to be educated, we need to
have methods and procedures andall of those things are great,
but we also have to understandwe need to be saved.
What is it worth us gettingfree of the demon if we're not
going to repent of our sins andturn away from sin and cling to
the cross of Christ and go tohell?
We need to be saved.
Deliverance is for saved peopleand that's why I don't
(50:20):
understand where all these othermindsets come in.
Where a Christian can't bedemonized, what do you mean?
A Christian can be demonized.
A Christian can have anythingthat he wants to have.
If a Christian wants a demon,he can open up a door to a demon
.
If a Christian wants to livedemon free, guess what A
Christian can get all thosedemons cast out of him.
Why?
Because of the power of thecross of Christ.
And I just think it's soimportant that the gospel, as
(50:43):
well as deliverance, shouldfocus on repentance and faith
and must magnify Christ and thecross of Christ.
Jesus said if I be lifted up, Iwill draw all men unto me and
I'm just.
I'm looking at the condition ofwhere things are today and we're
seeing all this, this rise indeliverance ministry.
(51:05):
We're seeing all these YouTubevideos.
We're seeing people becomefamous and have movies and
walking on the red carpet.
Tell me, where in the Bible didthe apostle Paul enter into a
city and they just threw out ared carpet for him to walk on?
We have to get away from thecelebrity mindset of
Christianity.
We need to become servantsagain.
We need to fall in love withJesus again.
(51:25):
We need to know that he paidthe ultimate price, not so we
can become popular, but so wecan become Christ, so we can
heal the sick, cast out devilsand raise the dead.
We need Jesus Christ back in ourchurches.
We need Jesus Christ back inour deliverance ministry.
We need Jesus Christ back inour churches.
We need Jesus Christ back inour deliverance ministry.
We need Jesus Christ back inour prophetic ministry.
(51:46):
We need him.
We're on a race against time.
Christ can come back at anymoment and so many of us are
lost because we're boasting inourselves, we're boasting in our
popularity, we're boasting inour departments of ministry.
We're making our focus on thegift of the Spirit and not on
Christ Jesus and Him crucified.
(52:06):
We need to get back to thegospel because if we get the
gospel right, everything elsewill fall into place.
We need the Holy Spirit, weneed to be baptized in the
Spirit.
We need to cast out devils.
Why?
Because it's part of the GreatCommission to cast out devils.
Why Because it's part of theGreat Commission the cast out
devils, the heal, the sick toraise the dead.
That didn't end.
That is still going on.
(52:27):
But we need to regroup.
We need to get our focus back.
We need to understand that ifwe truly want to see people set
free, then we need to lead themto the cross of Christ and they
need to repent of their sins.
Lead them to the cross ofChrist and they need to repent
of their sins, and that's whenwe're going to see a dramatic
shift.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
And turnaround in deliverance ministry.
Guys, I think we just attendedchurch and that is Pastor Tyler.
So if you're ever in Carmel,indiana, stop by Revelation
Church and if you live by there,get there.
That's what you can lookforward to.
I was very touched hearing hisheart, hearing his passion about
(53:04):
how we have to get back to coreChristianity, get back to
repentance of sin.
When we go through exorcismsessions with people, we have
them repent of sin.
Right, because there is willfulsin, where people willfully do
something that they know iswrong.
That is sin.
(53:24):
So we have them confess andrepent of that sin.
And then there's this kind ofhey, I didn't know it was sin.
So we have them repent of thatsin as well.
Because the Bible says thisconfess your sins, confess them,
and he is faithful and just toforgive you of them.
(53:45):
And here's the kicker cleanseyou from all unrighteous, but
you have to confess your sin.
I echo Pastor Tyler's passionof repentance.
It's essential when it comes todeliverance.
I hope that you have found thisepisode interesting.
(54:09):
Okay, pastor Tyler and I havehopped on a couple of horses and
blazed some trails all over theplace and there's smoke behind
us and we're still going forward.
What I hope you take away fromthis is number one finding a
(54:29):
church that teaches the entirecounsel of the Word of God and
focuses on the gospel, thesalvation message.
That's what Christianity isabout.
The Messiah is coming.
All through the Old Testamentthe Messiah is coming.
The Messiah is coming.
The Messiah comes, repent ofyour sins, he dies for our sins.
He's buried.
He rose from the dead.
(54:51):
Right this is the gospelmessage.
And then serving Christ till wedraw our last breath reading
that Bible daily, right.
So that's the takeaway.
Find a church that teaches theentire council, just not
feel-good, psychological,self-help messages.
I think the other takeaway thatI would like for you to have is
(55:13):
that deliverance is somethingthat takes a lot of time and a
lot of repentance and a lot oflife change.
Lifestyle change that's thesecond thing.
And then the third thing Ithink all of us and I'm speaking
to myself too we should takefrom this is finding a church
(55:34):
that's balanced.
So I would encourage you toeven consider going back and
re-listening to this episode andallow the Holy Spirit to
challenge you.
If you're listening to this andyou feel agitated and irritated
at what's being spoken, that's agood thing, because it means
(55:54):
it's challenging you.
You're uncomfortable, that's agood thing.
When I go to church, I'muncomfortable.
Last week I was leaving with mykids and I said whew.
And they said what, dad?
I said that's a tough one.
I said I got some repenting todo.
Man, that was tough.
And they just laughed at me ina good way.
(56:14):
But I leave challenge.
My minister challenges me.
He helps us feel uncomfortableand so if you feel uncomfortable
hearing some of this stuff,that's a good thing, man.
It's challenging you.
Don't just shut it off and notlisten.
I encourage you to go back andlisten to it again and pray to
the Lord.
And it's what I said multipletimes through this episode we
(56:37):
are in the last days.
That's my personal opinion.
I've never seen it this bad.
It's really bad and I thinkmost of you listening understand
that it's really bad.
It's really bad.
Get cleaned up.
Get cleaned up.
Let's all, myself included getour hearts aligned with Christ.
(56:57):
Get the sin out of our life.
The compromise.
Remember what God said in theBible.
You never hear this preached intoday's time.
This is never preached whereGod said either be hot or cold.
I'd rather you be hot or cold,not lukewarm, or I'll spew you
out of my mouth, spit you out ofmy mouth.
(57:18):
He's like pick a side, don't belukewarm.
Really frustrates God whenpeople are lukewarm.
Right, going to church, doingthe church thing, but living
half in the world, half inchurch, all that kind I mean.
I've been there myselfpersonally.
There came a point where it wastime to sell out, and I did.
And then I went throughexorcism sessions and got
(57:42):
cleaned up, repented of all thesin and am serving Christ
faithfully.
But I am still a broken, sinfulman, as are all of us.
That's why Christ died on thecross.
We're not perfect.
We sin, we repent, we get up,we dust our butt off and we get
back on the bike.
I always tell people get on thebike and pedal, and when you
(58:03):
fall off and you sin, you get up.
I'm sorry, lord, I confess itexactly what it was.
Dust your butt off, get on thebike and keep pedaling.
Who makes it to the end isthose who don't give up.
That's who makes it.
So I hope you felt challengedby this.
I'm going to come to Tyler in aminute.
I hope you have felt challengedby this, inspired, motivated
(58:27):
for change, and I share this.
I brought Pastor Tyler onbecause I wanted to encourage
you guys who are listening.
We're not here to beat you up.
We're not here to beat up otherministries.
We're just talking real, likewe're just being real.
We don't have it all figuredout.
(58:48):
We're not perfect, wedefinitely have opinions, but we
at least got to get back tothat core doctrine, core
Christianity, and clean upbefore Jesus.
All of us, myself included,tyler, I'm going to come back to
you.
At the end of every episode, Ialways ask my guests to offer
(59:11):
words of encouragement to theaudience.
There are people listeningright now who are upset at what
they've heard.
They're upset by it and I sayit's a good thing to be
challenged in that way.
There are some listening thatknow that they have to clean up
and the Holy Spirit's working ontheir heart and they're going
(59:32):
to do it.
I know that in my knower thereare people who need deliverance
and they're still torn on it.
It's hard for people to humblethemselves, pastor Tyler, and
come for help.
They don't want to admit thatthey have problems.
They don't want to go intotheir pain and look back at the
past.
They want to act like it's notthere, and so they live with
(59:55):
demons and they're tormented.
There's listeners like thatthat keep coming back because
they know this is true.
They just struggle with thehumility in coming.
And then there are peoplelistening right now who
absolutely need deliverance.
They know they're on fire.
They're like this is it, man?
This was it, this was themessage I'm coming for
deliverance, justin.
All kinds of listeners, allkinds of ages, but they keep
(01:00:19):
coming back because they knowthat this is truth For all of
these people.
At the end here, tyler, what isit that you would like to share
with them from your heart andin a compassionate way to
encourage and inspire theaudience here?
What is it that you have onyour heart that you would like
(01:00:41):
to share with them?
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
I would say that repentance is a good thing.
I think the biggest problemthat people have, you know, kind
of going back just into how youopened up this podcast this
afternoon is that you know, alot of pastors don't agree with
deliverance.
A lot of people have a hardtime with it.
I think the reason why isbecause I think, deep down
(01:01:05):
inside they're trying to runaway from themselves and if they
have a demon, I think thatautomatically what goes into
their mind is that they're a badperson.
And here's the thing is theBible teaches that there's none
good but God.
We all need Jesus.
We all need to repent of oursins and believe the gospel of
Jesus Christ to be saved, andit's by the grace of God that
(01:01:28):
we're able to receivedeliverance.
It's a good thing.
It doesn't mean that you'rehorrible and there's no help for
you.
It means that Christ loves youdespite your sin, and it's his
will for you to be free.
And the word of God also saysthat God chastises those who he
loves.
So I went through a season andI want to tell the listeners I
went through a season where Ijust felt like all I was doing
(01:01:51):
was repenting and all I wasdoing was getting rebuked and
corrected by the Lord, byspiritual leaders, by mentors,
and I was trying to figure outwhy.
And after I went through thatseason, it's like a lot of the
rebuke and the corrections andall of those things kind of just
went away and I began to hungerfor it.
It's like God, I want tocontinue to grow.
(01:02:12):
Where did all this stuff go?
And I know that doesn't makesense, but there's something
about repenting and humblingyourself and desiring the
correction of the Lord, becauseyou know when the correction of
the Lord is there, that he'snear.
If you were raised by two goodparents and they disciplined you
, they didn't do that from afar,did they?
(01:02:33):
They didn't do that on anotherstate or another country.
No, they brought you near tothem and they corrected you.
Why?
Because they love you, and Ithink it's so important to
understand that repentance isn'ta bad thing.
Repentance doesn't mean you'renot accepted and unless you get
everything right, then I'm goingto love you, and I think that's
what people instinctively thinkand that's not the heart of
(01:02:56):
true repentance.
The heart of true repentance isto understand what Christ did at
the cross and to understandthat God is holy and righteous
and that your unholiness, yourunrighteousness, can't coexist
with Christ in you.
It can't, and that's why theBible says that carnality is
enmity against God.
(01:03:16):
It wages war against Godbecause it doesn't understand
the things of God.
And so when God, since Godloves you, he's going to correct
you.
Since God loves you, you'regoing to hear messages.
That's not going to feel sogood, but that doesn't come from
a place of rejection, thatcomes from a place of, hey, I
love you, come back to me.
This is what true love lookslike.
This is what you need to do.
This is where I'm leading you.
(01:03:39):
I mean, just think about, in theExodus, okay, when you had all
the people of Israel, okay,being pulled out of Egypt.
Right, they were in thewilderness.
Right, they didn't like it,they didn't like where they were
, they didn't like the way theyfelt, but they forgot to
understand where they werepulled out of.
And I just want to encourageyou today.
If you're a born again believerin Christ Jesus, you've been
(01:04:00):
pulled out of darkness and youare in the marvelous light of
Christ.
And if God is correcting you,it's only coming from a place of
love, compassion and mercy.
Receive the correction of theLord, repent of your sins,
because God loves you and Godwants to take you higher, and I
want to close with this.
There's a passage of scriptureand forgive me, I don't remember
(01:04:21):
the reference at the top of myhead but Jesus said unless you
lose your life, you find it.
And I think a lot of us skipover that passage, or a lot of
ministers don't preach thatpassage because it's too
profound.
What do you mean?
I have to lose my life to gainit.
And I think a lot of us aretrying to hold on to our lives
with everything that we have,instead of saying you know what,
(01:04:42):
lord, I'm going to lose it foryou because I see your worth, I
see your majesty and I see yourgreat love for me.
So I trust you with my life andI lay it down.
So I encourage everyone that'slistening to the sound of my
voice that Jesus loves you andhe is worthy of your pursuit and
he is worth laying your lifedown for him.
(01:05:04):
You will never regret thatdecision and I bless you all in
Jesus name.
And Justin, I want to thank youfor this wonderful opportunity
to be on this podcast.
It's been an honor, it's been aprivilege.
God bless you all in Jesus name.
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