February 5, 2025 • 49 mins
Episode Description
Diversity in construction isn’t just about numbers - it’s about creating stronger, more innovative, and more resilient teams. But with construction still being one of the least diverse industries, how do we bridge the gap? In this episode, we explore the current state of diversity in construction, the barriers that continue to limit inclusivity, and the real-world impact of a diverse workforce.
We’ll break down the unconscious biases shaping hiring practices, the challenges faced by underrepresented groups on jobsites, and how inclusion can drive better decision-making, higher profits, and improved safety. Through data-driven insights and actionable solutions, we’ll show how individuals and companies alike can overcome the diversity deficit.
Key Points
Diversity in Construction
What is Diversity?
Current State of Construction: Gender, Race, Age, etc
Why Diversity Matters
Barriers to Increasing Diversity in Construction
Recruitment and Biases
Culture Towards Diversity
Hazing
Harassment
How to Foster Diversity
At an Individual Level
At the Company Level
Episode Breakdown: The Diversity Deficit - What's Holding Construction Back?
Diversity in construction isn’t just about representation. It’s about unlocking the full potential of teams by bringing together different perspectives, experiences, and skills. But the reality? The industry still struggles with outdated mindsets, hiring biases, and work environments that don’t support inclusivity. What we call the diversity deficit. In this episode, we break down why diversity matters, the obstacles that keep construction from making progress, and how both individuals and companies can take steps toward creating a more inclusive industry.
Where Are We At? Understanding Diversity in Construction
Diversity in construction is like building a structure, every material brings its own strength, function, and value. If a building is made of only one material, it’s weaker, less adaptable, and less innovative. The same goes for teams. When we lack diversity, we lose the creativity, problem-solving skills, and innovation that come from different perspectives.
The Current State of Diversity in Construction
Despite progress in many industries, construction remains one of the least diverse fields. Let’s look at the numbers:
Women: Only 10% of the construction workforce (2023).
Race/Ethnicity:
60% White
30% Hispanic
5% Black
2% Asian
Age: The workforce is aging, with fewer young professionals entering the industry.
Sexuality: 2-5% of construction workers identify as LGBTQIA+.
Educational Background:
50% High School Diploma
20% Bachelor’s Degree
30% Trade Certifications or Other Education
1 in 4 construction workers are foreign-born.
With numbers like these, it’s clear that construction is lagging behind in representation, which directly impacts how teams function and how companies succeed.
Why Diversity Matters
Diversity is more than a buzzword. It drives success. When teams are built with a variety of backgrounds and experiences, they make better decisions 87% of the time and increase company profits. Here’s why:
Attracting Talent: 76% of job seekers say diversity is important when considering a job offer. In an industry facing a workforce crisis, this matters.
Improving Communication & Safety: On bilingual job sites, having diverse leadership improves clarity, prevents misunderstandings, and enhances safety.
Encouraging Creativity & Problem-Solving: Teams with different perspectives find more innovative solutions to complex problems.
Strengthening Retention: When employees feel included and valued, they are more likely to stay, reducing turnover and labor shortages.
Challenges to Diversity in Construction
If diversity is so beneficial, why is construction struggling to embrace it? Bias, discrimination,
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome to the Blueprint for Change podcast where
we tackle construction culture
one conversation, one person, one job site at
a time. My name is Taylor Boilow. And
I am Hector Lebron. And welcome to episode
three of the Blueprint for Change podcast.
To kick off our third episode,
wanna start off with a shout out to
(00:31):
our listeners because
without them, we genuinely
would not this podcast wouldn't exist. So here's
a quick shout out to you guys.
Round of applause.
You guys, we have 61
listeners across The United States and Canada, and
that is Thank you. Incredible.
(00:53):
Yes. It's just it's
it's spreading, and I like it. And it's
we're all together, we're gonna make a change.
And we have 14 regular listeners.
That means 14 people
tuned in to episode one, and then they
watched it the very first day for episode
(01:14):
two.
Shout out to I know a couple of
those listeners.
Save.
Yep.
The whole mission of this company
wouldn't be anything without everyone else. Because the
reality is
without our listeners, without
anyone
trying to make a difference in construction,
culture's never gonna change there.
(01:36):
So to those of you who are listening
and who are starting to take actions or
maybe thinking about even just taking action,
you guys are the change. Mhmm. You are
what this podcast is all about.
Yep. And if you wanna help us expand
this, if you want if you like
if you agree with what we're talking about
and you think that more people need to
(01:56):
hear about it, please give us a share.
Mhmm.
Because that's the only way that this change
is gonna happen is by word-of-mouth.
The word-of-mouth
is the best way
of just sharing anything.
I mean, if you listen to our last
episode, grassroots movements. Yep. That's what we're doing.
Yep. Word-of-mouth is how we are going to
(02:17):
change construction.
And you are part of that change. Mhmm.
But yeah. No. Shout out to you guys.
Thank you. Also, quick announcement for all those
listening. We are on some new streaming platforms.
We're not just on the website anymore.
We're on
Spotify. We are on Amazon Music. You wanna
ask Alexa to listen to us? You can
ask Alexa.
(02:38):
She knows who we are.
We're also on iHeartRadio.
So
Apple Music soon to be. It's my fault.
I will take the blame for that.
TBD this week, honestly. It's okay. This week,
we are going to get on Apple Podcasts.
But for now, you have other means of
listening to us, and we believe in you.
If you've been following us since the website,
(02:59):
you are literally our OG listeners.
You had to bear with us through that.
So thank you. And
you know what? Let's get started.
Yep. So today's episode, episode three, the diversity
deficit.
What's holding construction back. We're We're gonna be
talking about all about diversity. So the best
place to start with this is what is
(03:20):
diversity? Hector, what do you think it is?
I don't know.
Many different things, but
I think it's a different,
obviously, in people.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Cultures.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Especially, you know, cultures, ideas.
I mean, really, if you think about it,
(03:41):
diversity is any differences between people.
That could be race.
That could be
gender,
sexuality,
background. There's so many different things that diversity
can be.
I think that an analogy that I found
that I really liked online is that
diversity in construction is like when you build
a building. Right?
(04:03):
You can't just build it out of one
material. You can't just build a building out
of steel
or out of wood.
You need
the roof. You need the EIFS. You need
the carpet. You need the tile.
Every piece of the building
contributes to it. Right?
If you build a building out of a
single material, it's not gonna be that strong.
(04:23):
Even look at concrete. Right? Concrete needs steel.
It needs rebar in order to for it
to be strong enough. To reinforce.
Yeah. Right?
So
a team
made up of only one type of material
may work
and may be functional,
but it won't be as strong or adaptable
(04:44):
or innovative as one that incorporates different elements.
Right?
So that's what diversity is. Now that we
understand what that is, let's let's give you
a quick overview
of the episode and what we're gonna cover.
We're gonna talk about the current state of
construction.
What how diverse are we actually?
Not really. Hint.
(05:06):
We are gonna be talking about why diversity
matters and why you should care.
Mhmm. What the challenges are to actually implementing
diversity and why diversity doesn't always stick in
construction. Mhmm. And then finally, we're gonna be
talking about what you, our listeners as individuals,
and for those of you who are decision
makers at companies, what companies can do.
(05:28):
So let's get started. Current state of construction.
Alright, Hector. We're gonna go for we're gonna
I'm gonna ask you questions. We're gonna see
how well you know construction. Alright.
What percentage
of
the construction workforce Mhmm. Is women?
(05:50):
20%.
Ten.
That was close.
So
we're gonna try and help help you figure
this out. So if you imagine there are
10 people standing in front of you Mhmm.
I guarantee you, you know 10 people. Mhmm.
Imagine that one of them is a woman.
That is a representation of construction,
one in 10. Mhmm.
(06:11):
I know from my experience,
I've been
I like I went to engineering. Right? So
I was always kinda like the lone female,
and then I kinda found in my group,
and Right. We started working together. But I
remember it wasn't until my third internship. I
was sitting in a daily stand up,
and there were probably about 50 people in
that room.
(06:33):
And I sat there and I actually looked
around at every single person. I was like,
wait a second.
Like, out of 50 people, it was foreman
and superintendents and project managers. I'm like, I
am literally the only woman.
Mhmm.
It's insane. But then I've also seen the
opposite where there's, like, specific TGB goals on,
(06:54):
subcontractors
and on workforce.
And my last project that I was on,
it was a government project.
There were so many women. It was so
cool to see the diversity and be like,
oh my god. I'm not the only woman
on this job site or on this floor
or in this room. Right?
Yeah. I know how that feels like.
Well, let let's talk about that next. Alright.
(07:17):
Well, you know, clearly, I'm not a woman.
One.
Two. Let's start there.
You know? Why don't you talk talk a
little bit about your heritage? Well, I'm Puerto
Rican,
born and raised,
and everybody sees the typical Puerto Rican in
their mind, and they think Bad Bunny.
(07:37):
But we're not all like that.
Puerto Ricans come in different colors and different
sizes and
all different shapes.
And I am
on the darker scale,
and there's nothing wrong with that. But
moving up here to Minnesota,
(07:58):
I
noticed, obviously, you know, coming from Florida
Yeah.
Where you see and Florida is like another
melting pot.
You can interpret that in many different ways.
But Well, especially for the Hispanic
population in Florida because you have Cuba, you
have the Dominican Republic, you have Mexico. It's
not just that. Closer to the border. It's
(08:19):
right there
where it's
South America,
Central America can get to it. Yep. So
there's so many different ethnicities,
you know, and you pick up and you
learn and
and it it it was
yes.
It's
it's bad down there to work right now,
(08:41):
especially how
close minded
it is in the South. Yeah. Right?
No offense to anybody in the South. Not
saying that everybody in the South is close
minded, but
speaking in construction wise, they're
It's difficult to work down there. Right. I
mean, we've both talked about our experiences minus
a woman down in the South and you
(09:02):
as someone who is Hispanic down in the
South.
You know, racism It's difficult. Discrimination, harassment.
Hazing. Hazing,
you know.
But,
yeah, down south, you know, as a Spanish
person You'll see people like you. Right. Moving
up here,
you know, my first job site out here,
(09:26):
I was
the only
Hispanic person.
And then
randomly I saw
Hispanic people coming through the office and they
started talking to me in Spanish and I
was just like,
okay.
We exist up here. I'm not the only
one. No. You have a good point. Like,
with regards to,
(09:48):
your experience
as a Hispanic male, I mean,
let's talk about race then. What percentage of
the population do you think is Hispanic for
construction?
I know it's more than half.
Nope.
Really?
Really.
Damn, man. There's a lot of us.
(10:09):
Just saying.
Shout out.
So according
to,
5%.
You'll be like, woo.
So I want you to imagine,
again, 10 people standing in front of you.
Mhmm. Six of those people are gonna be
white.
(10:30):
Three of them are gonna be Hispanic.
And then one of them will be black,
Asian, or some other race. So that's kind
of the current state of
race in construction.
Do you have any, like, thoughts or any
comments
with regards to that?
(10:51):
I don't know. Because I feel like
down south,
you look around and there is
you can count
how many,
like, white guys work there.
Oh, yeah.
In one hand or two hands?
It's usually under five. Usually, you can count
out on one hand.
(11:12):
Okay. So we talked about gender. We talked
about race.
What about age?
So
have you heard I know, like, on my
end, like, going to conferences and being in
the office a lot longer, I've heard a
lot about the workforce crisis.
Have you heard about this at all, Hector?
I've heard of the workforce
(11:33):
crisis.
Yes. I've heard a lot of the workforce
crisis.
What is the workforce crisis?
Not a lot of people in construction right
now.
The old people are retiring, and the new
people are not
really
(11:53):
Replacing them. Yeah.
So
good point. So, yeah, essentially, the baby boomers,
because there were so many people in the
baby boomer generation Mhmm. That entered into construction
and are now retiring, there aren't enough people
to actually replace them.
So So when you look at age, when
we talk about the proportions of the different
(12:15):
generations,
baby boomers have are are starting to phase
out. So, obviously, they're a little bit lower.
Millennials and Gen Xers are our highest.
That's And then
that's the next. That's what's now the yeah.
Like you said, boomers are phasing out.
Now what's coming up is x and millennials.
(12:35):
X is already there,
but millennials are coming up. Yes. Yes.
And then right behind them, we have my
generation,
gen z. Oh, lord.
Generation zebra.
It's okay. The the youngest generation always gets
shit shat on. So
(12:56):
Not necessarily.
How many people hated millennials?
Everyone.
I don't remember people hating
well, every generation before
will hate the newer generation because That's what
I just said. We don't understand it.
Okay.
But so yeah. So that's the current state
(13:17):
of construction when we talk about the different
generations. And that's also another form of diversity,
is a diversity in generations.
Mhmm.
Another one is in sexuality.
So
gay, lesbian, transgender,
about two to 5%. So if you had
20 people,
one person is going to be gay, lesbian,
or transgender, or LGBTQIA
(13:39):
plus. But so yeah. So, I mean, sexuality
is another form of diversity. Then we can
also take a look at just, like, background.
So, like,
college degrees.
What percent of,
people in construction do you think have high
school diplomas?
Yes. Me?
Yes. But what percent? I don't know. Honestly,
(14:00):
I do not know. What percentage, Taylor? Fifty
percent.
Oh. Only 50% have high school diplomas. 20%
have bachelor degrees.
Not me. 30%
have other forms like a
certificate.
So these are all different forms of diversity
(14:20):
that we have. So we got background, we
got sexuality, gender, race.
Another thing is, so
I found this really interesting statistic because I
kinda wanna share with everyone.
One in four construction workers
are foreign born.
I E they are not born in The
(14:40):
United States.
One in four? One in four, twenty 5%.
That's that's like, if you look at four
people, one of them
is not gonna be from The United States.
I mean, both of us, like I was
about to say
Or not from The United States. There's an
anomaly here.
(15:01):
Our dog is the only one who was
born on US soil. Yep.
Oklahoma.
I was like, I'm a Canadian for those
of you who are unaware. I'm also American,
but I was born on Canadian soil. And
Hector was born in Puerto Rico.
But it's American soil. American territory.
(15:22):
Ish soil.
I just find that fascinating. One in four
people.
Except in this room. Except for in this
room. Yeah. One in four people in construction
are foreign born. There's so the reason we're
talking about all these different
things and all these different, like,
kinds of diversity in construction
(15:42):
is because
when we think of diversity so many
times we go to race or gender. Right?
Mhmm.
But there's so much more to diversity than
that. There's your background, your education.
There is where you came from. You came
from Puerto Rico. I came from Canada.
You were raised in
New Jersey ish. Mhmm. I was raised in
(16:03):
Minnesota. Like, there are so many cultural differences.
Yes. Yes. Agree.
And, like, even class. You look at class.
Right? Mhmm. Poor, middle, upper class. Where you
come from affects your perspective.
Mhmm. So the more people,
the different perspectives we can bring together,
we wanna take a look at why it
matters. Why do we want all these people
(16:24):
together? I mean, obviously, it's good to recognize
it. Right?
But why why do you think diversity matters?
You know, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking
I'm like, it's just
everyone brings something different to the table, something
different. Have you ever worked on a diverse
team before? Yes.
(16:46):
There's a superintendent
back in Florida that I met. Who was
from?
Minnesota.
Woo.
From specifically
Albert Lee.
And
he
oh, lord.
He was a very different person from anyone
(17:08):
I've ever met in construction.
We were just arguing
all the time.
And mind you, I was very fresh at
being a superintendent.
This was his first job as a superintendent.
He had years of experience in this.
Right? Like, probably thirty. Yeah. He had Thirty
to forty. Forty. He had as many years
of his experience in construction as I was
(17:30):
alive.
He understood that I was very inexperienced.
He also understood that I was a hothead.
I understood that he had very antique ways
of doing things,
and I you know, he had
he said certain things that he should've never
(17:51):
said.
So what do you think you learned from
him?
Patience,
believe it or not.
What do you think the superintendent learned from
you?
I guess he also learned
his version of patience
(18:12):
with me.
We we both had to learn so
in order to learn from the next person,
you have to have a certain form of
patience because
you are in a different
wavelength than they are.
But
if you can understand
(18:32):
why they are in their ways
and why they got there. Yeah.
So you start to open up. You start
to understand. You start to peel the layers
off.
And then maybe through that understanding,
you can come to understand Yeah. And possibly
learn from each other. But all that comes
from patience. You have to have that. You
have to be willing
(18:54):
to accept that Yeah. And willing to let
this other person in
in a way, but you have to have
patience.
Right?
So maybe what
you learned from him
was
Understanding
acceptance.
Understanding acceptance and also
learning
(19:15):
how to control your temper a little bit.
And maybe superintendent's way wasn't always the
only way to do things, that there are
other ways to get things done on a
job site. Yeah. No. Exactly.
So, I mean, that's a perfect example of
why diversity matters because we can learn from
one another. Yeah.
(19:36):
And
if let's say you're like, well, that's great.
I I'll learn from the next person. I
can learn from someone who looks just the
same, comes from the same background as me.
That's great.
Let's talk about the actual impact at company
having a non diverse workforce.
Well,
76%
(19:57):
of employees and job seekers say
that diversity is important
when considering a job offer.
So we're talking about this workforce crisis, right?
And we're talking about how
there's not enough people in construction
to
sustain us with what we're doing. Right? Mhmm.
(20:17):
We need to attract more talent.
And when that talent, 76%
of them care about diversity,
I wouldn't characterize
construction as diverse. Would you?
It depends.
I mean,
because when you go to a different state,
you see
(20:38):
a difference in that. Think about it. If
you go to Florida right now,
what are you gonna see in a job
site
as soon as you walk in?
A lot of Hispanic people. Exactly.
Now,
boom.
You teleport
to a job site
(21:02):
in Fargo.
It's gonna be a bunch of white people,
but that's a lack of diversity on those
job sites. I know. But It's all Hispanic
or all white people. It's not just
that. Well, yes. Yeah. No. Yeah. A %.
But you know where I do agree with
you on that construction is diverse?
(21:23):
The people that you talk to and where
they came from,
you're going to find the widest range of
people
in construction
as far as what they did previously.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
From art major
to,
ex convict to a priest to nurse.
(21:45):
Yeah. Like, you you're gonna run into everyone,
which is, I think, one of the few
ways that construction is really diverse. Yeah. Yeah.
And even
even in the trades
coming
having a background in the different type of
trades, some people start
as a carpenter and years later they say,
you know what? I wanna be an ironworker.
(22:07):
Or some days they started, no. I'm an
ironworker and you know what? I'm gonna be
a plumber. Yep.
And you learn so many different, you know,
things from different trades as well. So that's
another
diverse
thing. How construction is diverse? Yep.
Another benefit. So we've talked about how
(22:30):
if we
want to
attract more people into our industry,
we need to start focusing on diversity with
76%
of them caring about. Right? Mhmm. Another thing
is it's going to just straight up increase
your profits. More diverse teams
are more profitable.
Also,
they make better decisions.
(22:52):
So a diverse team
make better decisions than nondiverse
teams
up to 87%
of the time.
We all wanna make better decisions.
We all have tough decisions to make every
day.
Yeah. Yes. We do. So if we can
make better decisions 87%
(23:14):
of the time,
I'll sign up for it. Right?
I mean, another thing is when you look
at diversity I mean,
you talked about the South. Right? Yeah. And
about how when you walk on a job
site, there are
a lot of Hispanic workers.
What do you see when you look at
the leadership on-site, like superintendents, foreman?
(23:37):
That's a different story.
What are they?
White.
Okay.
Do you think having some diversity
in leadership on-site
could help with coordinating work? Yeah.
I don't know. I feel like
some
(23:57):
and I know this is might sound weird,
but
some Hispanic
people
like having
someone that speaks Spanish
in their leadership.
They feel more comfortable
having that person
(24:18):
communicate in their language. In their native language.
Yeah. Their first language. But I mean,
there are just so many different cultures and
so many different ways that people view things.
And when we have that different approaches, like
different ways of looking at things, we're gonna
have more creative solutions. Right? Mhmm. If we're
looking,
let's say there's an object on the table.
(24:40):
Right? Mhmm.
And you're looking from your perspective and you're
like, it's a building. And I'm looking from
my perspective and I'm like,
no. It's a refrigerator.
Right? Okay.
But it's
we're looking at two sides of the same
object. Yes. Different perspectives.
And we can argue all day. I'm like,
it's a refrigerator, and you can say it's
(25:01):
a building.
But until we can actually communicate and talk
about it from our different perspectives
Mhmm.
It's
it's mute. Right?
It doesn't matter. We need to be able
to do that because when we can see
the whole
the whole of it,
we can work on creating a better solution.
(25:22):
We can work on trying to figure out
what we need to do. Mhmm.
Another thing is we can leverage each other's
strengths.
Yes.
So, like, if we look at generations,
I'm a gen z. You're a millennial.
Millennials do have strengths. I mean, you guys
are really good at working in groups. Millennials
(25:43):
are typically
good at working in groups.
They really like to be coached and mentored.
Mhmm.
They're good at collaboration. They're they're
they're about people and they're about people working
together.
Whereas when you look at gen z, my
generation,
gen z cares about the world
(26:05):
a lot. I I know that past generations
have two, but, I mean, social causes. We're
talking about social equality. We're talking about
classism. We're talking about environmental responsibility.
We
when I go
and decide whether or not I'm gonna work
for a company, I take a look at
their mission statement. I look at take a
(26:25):
look at their social media and see what
they're actually doing for the general community because
that's really important for people like us. So
we're able to push forward causes and look
at the greater impact on the world around
us.
And you can get everyone together to collaborate.
Boomers can bring the experience, and Gen x
can be like,
(26:45):
I don't know why I put up with
all you.
So from now on, when you apply for
a job, instead of just sitting there thinking,
oh, how much are they paying me?
Don't just go straight for the money.
Also think, what are they offering? What else
are they bringing to the table besides just
a paycheck?
Yeah. Something where you feel aligned with their
(27:07):
values. Right. It's not just for companies to
decide whether or not you're a good fit.
It's up to you to decide whether they're
a good fit for you.
So if diversity is such a great thing,
and we've we've talked about it, and we've
talked about how construction
lacks it on a lot of levels,
there are a lot of challenges
(27:29):
when it comes to construction
and why we don't have a diverse workforce.
So I think we should go from, like,
kinda start to beginning and talk about why
it's hard to get people into it
and then why people leave.
So
let's start with
trying to get people hired.
(27:52):
So do you know what blind hiring is?
Isn't that what happens all the time? No.
No. It's not. Usually, people there's an actual
person looking at their resume. Like, there'll be,
like, a robot, and then an HR person
or a recruiter will go through and actually
look at the resume, review it, and then
decide whether or not they move on to
the next round.
(28:13):
What blind hiring is is that you don't
get to know the name,
the race,
any sort of
information that may skew your bias.
But blind hiring increases the likelihood
that women will be hired by 25 to
46%
because they don't see that it's a woman's
name. Now if you think that's bad,
(28:35):
white sounding names on resumes get 50%
more callbacks for interviews than black sounding names.
That explains a lot.
No. But here's the reality. Right? Yeah.
Every single one of us has an unconscious
bias.
We are wired
(28:56):
to like people who are like us. Take
away race. Take away gender.
If I like rock climbing
and I meet someone else who likes rock
climbing,
we're gonna have similar experiences. I can talk
about the time I climbed this mountain. They
can talk about the time they climbed that
mountain.
I'm in Minnesota.
Someone else is from Minnesota.
(29:17):
We can talk about how we went up
to Mille Lacs. We can talk about Mhmm.
Rainy Lake. We can talk about the Long
Island iced teas and Minneapolis and what's going
on back there. We can connect over similar
things.
We are wired to like people who are
like us, and we are wired to distance
ourselves from people who are different than us
(29:37):
or have distrust in them.
Yes. The distrust part.
And, I mean, like, what we just talked
about, the like, there's so many studies done
on
why people
don't necessarily get
into
a job because of
(29:58):
their gender or their race. And, I mean,
that's just where we started. I actually I
don't know if I've told you this. I
don't put my graduation date on my resume.
Why is that?
I don't put it because it dates me.
It tells people how young I am. Mhmm.
There's actually been some research into that as
well. But, I mean,
(30:20):
if you look at at hiring managers,
eighty five to 97%
rely on intuition
as of 2022,
according to LinkedIn,
as to whether or not someone's gonna move
to the next round or whether someone's or
not someone's gonna get a job.
That's not good.
And not only that forty eight percent of
HR managers
(30:41):
admitted
that bias affected their candidate's choice,
who they chose. They're like, well, I kinda
like this person. I could see getting a
beer with them, that whole thing. Yeah. I
know.
That shouldn't be
how you
define getting
a person into your team.
(31:02):
No. Because the reality is you're gonna wanna
go get a beer
with someone who's like you,
not someone who's gonna challenge you or have
different perspectives. Mhmm.
If you think about,
like, a job site gate. Right?
There are a bunch of people trying to
get into the job site, and every single
one of them has to open up the
gate in order to get in.
(31:24):
There are some people that can
scan in and just go right in. Zero
issues. Mhmm. There are other people who struggles
to get through. They scan it and
door won't unlock. They try and open the
door, but it gets jammed. They try and
use a key, but the key isn't quite
the right. And
(31:44):
there are people who struggle to get through
that, and they have to
face
workarounds
or face delays in trying to get in.
If you wait around long enough,
why the heck are you gonna stick around?
But, I mean, when we talk about trying
to get people into construction,
(32:05):
it's first of all getting people interested into
construction, and then
it's trying to get people into the door.
Yeah. And construction right now doesn't look appealing
to anyone. So
Why is that?
Because of the toxicity.
The amount
of toxicity
that
(32:26):
exists in this industry.
Do you think that is better or worse
for people who are of more diverse backgrounds?
What do you mean? The toxicity?
Yep.
Better or worse for people diverse?
Worse.
Way worse. Right?
Tenfold.
(32:49):
I just, like,
I just don't
I don't get the hatred
or the just dislike towards people who aren't
like us.
Because it's something that you don't know what
it is.
Yeah.
(33:10):
So if you don't know what it is,
you, a,
the I feel like the initial thought
is just fear it because I don't know
what the hell it's gonna do.
So I gotta
brace for whatever
is gonna happen.
(33:31):
I feel like that's
the main thing. Do you think it's almost
like a fear of that person's gonna
possibly challenge my beliefs
or disagree with me?
You don't like, I feel like the the
first initial, like, people is is just fear.
(33:54):
Yeah. It's that fear. Like, yes. This person
difference. This person is gonna challenge my beliefs.
So
let's say someone gets past the first round.
Right? Mhmm.
They actually have an interest in construction and
aren't shut down from it.
They then get through the whole application process,
(34:16):
get a job,
then they have to stay in construction.
And I was telling you about this before
I got on the podcast, and I was
like, this is disgusting. So this is a
study done by Construction Dive in 2020
about
racism
and
(34:36):
other issues on the job site.
42%
of people, according to the survey had seen
racist graffiti. Mhmm. 38%
heard verbal abuse or racial racial slurs. Mhmm.
31%
has seen minorities given undesirable
task.
25%
knew of workers who didn't get hired because
(34:57):
of their race. Mhmm. And 15%
has seen a noose or other racist object
in the job site.
Mhmm. And the worst part of everything,
if there is a worst part of everything,
is that 77%
of respondents said nothing was done to address
these problems.
And I can attest to all of that.
(35:20):
Why don't you share a little bit about
your experience
being Hispanic on a job site and perhaps
of the things that you experienced because you
were
not
the majority
there?
I've been on job sites where they only
had the Spanish guys do the underground for
the plumbers.
(35:41):
We were never allowed to use
like, it would be the white guy in
the machinery,
and it would be us
in the dirt.
I've seen
(36:02):
tons of
porta john graffitis
that one day it'll make you laugh, the
next day it just makes you angry. It
just makes you not wanna go to that
job site anymore
because it's new it's just new shit every
day. Yep. You know?
And it just it gets annoying.
(36:23):
And you
That's not okay. No. No.
By no fucking means is that okay.
And sorry for my language, but it's just
it gets
it gets under my skin real fast.
And I mean, people have used racial slurs
at you. I know that. Oh, yeah. I'm
not gonna repeat them right now. But No.
It's just
(36:45):
to me, to my dad, I've worked with
my father in the field
for many years, and,
you know,
we've
usually, what would happen is if somebody would
say something like that or whatnot, I would
be
being in Florida. Staffing agencies are the bread
and butter.
Yep. Right?
(37:07):
I would just call my boss and be
like, you know what? I heard this and
this in the job site. Well, did you
report it? Well, what's the point? Last time
I reported it, this and this happened, they
retaliated,
and I had to leave the job site.
So
oh, okay. Well, where else do you wanna
go? I got this. I got this. I'll
go there. Okay. Try this one. See how
(37:28):
it goes.
So
It's just like
so you make it in and then you
have to withstand all of that. Mhmm. And,
like, you're you're not you Right. Like, you
are If you make it in
if you make it in, if this company
saw you and they were like, yep. This
is the guy I want.
(37:49):
Right? Unless you have some form of pull,
your friend spoke for you, or someone got
you in. Nope. If it's a company that
you don't know, nothing. If you get in,
then you have to deal with all the
other shit
plus the work.
Yes. You know? It just
And I wanna also step in here and
(38:10):
just say, like,
we're not saying we hate all white men.
That's not what we're saying No. At all.
We are talking about specific
statistics and studies we've seen done.
I wanna, first of all, acknowledge
that
anyone entering into the industry is going through
going to go through harassment or hazing
(38:30):
or something to the effect. It is a
cultural issue.
The reality is with young white men who
enter into the workforce
as they progress from apprentice to
journeyman
to
lead person or foreman even. Right? Mhmm.
They outgrow that status of being young.
(38:52):
They outgrow that status of being the new
person on-site.
The problem with being
from a visible
minority
is that
you will never be able to get rid
of that.
I can't change the fact that I'm a
woman.
Hector can't change the fact that he's Hispanic,
(39:14):
and there's no way for us to hide
that from other people.
Nope.
It doesn't matter if I am the vice
president of a general contractor
or an apprentice on-site. I'm always gonna be
a woman. Mhmm.
So with that being said, I mean, let's
talk about women on the job site. Right?
Once I already found that only 19%
(39:36):
only 19%
of
women
received appropriately sized gloves and safety gear.
Really?
Walking onto a job site and being given
the appropriate PPE that actually fits Mhmm.
It says
(39:57):
We got you. Yeah. It says,
this is a place where we expect you
to be Mhmm.
And that we are going to support you
in.
It doesn't matter whether it's Luvs or a
fucking porta john.
Yeah.
Because here's the thing. A woman walks on
a job site. There's not a female porta
john on that job site. You wanna know
(40:19):
what that says? We weren't expecting you.
Mhmm.
Oh, shit. We'll have one here next week.
We weren't expecting a woman
to be on our job site.
We tolerate
as a whole, as an industry. Right. We
allow things to happen that we shouldn't. Yeah.
We allow people to do graffiti. We allow
people to say racist shit. We allow
(40:43):
we don't order the proper PPE.
We don't order
the appropriate things to make people feel welcome
onto our job site. Mhmm.
Or even say things to make people feel
welcome on our job site. Or
make people feel safe on our job site.
So why would a diverse workforce stay when
they're going to be constantly under attack? Don't
(41:03):
get me wrong. You
may find that team that's great,
and you feel comfortable and safe, and you
wanna stick with them for forever. Right.
But you have to put up with all
this shit until you get there.
It's why people are leaving. Mhmm.
People get in. I mean, I've thought about
(41:25):
quitting. I know you've thought about I don't
know a single person in construction who hasn't
thought about quitting. Every day that ends with
a y, I think about quitting construction. And
I think about staying in construction
because it's such a love hate relationship.
There's no other way to explain it.
I think we should do an episode on
how,
(41:46):
construction is like a toxic relationship.
Oh, god. Yeah.
It is the biggest red flag that we
fell in love with.
So
we talked about diversity,
the current state, talked about why it's hard
to retain diversity in construction.
(42:07):
We talked about why it's important, how it
can increase profits. How do we actually create
that diversity? How would how do we foster
it? How do we, like, like, survive or
when they're doing that fucking
fire challenge? How do we, like, cradle it
and blow the ember and then turn it
into a fire? How do we get it
there? You gotta nurture it.
What does it take to nurture it?
(42:27):
You gotta understand.
You gotta be more opening.
More
open. Opening. He caught up at, like, 3AM,
so let's forgive him. Yeah. And I gotta
do it again tonight. So I mean, tomorrow
morning.
But
I feel like you gotta nurture it. You
gotta be
understanding.
You gotta be open,
(42:49):
receptive. You gotta just
just,
I don't know, let the change in almost.
I completely agree. You have to be open
to changing.
I think first of all, yes. Understanding the
problem. Mhmm. Understanding
different cultures,
being open minded is absolutely important. I think
another thing is just recognizing
(43:11):
you have a bias.
Mhmm.
I have a bias. You have a
bias. We don't like to talk about it.
No one wants to say, oh, yeah. I
have a bias. I don't whenever I
I just trust these type of people, like
right?
Whether it's someone without a college education or
someone from a specific ethnicity,
(43:32):
we all have biases because of how we
were raised. Mhmm.
But the first step to overcoming that is
recognizing that you have it.
Yeah. And when that thought pops up of,
oh, oh, I don't know about this, look
at it and evaluate whether or not it's
your unconscious bias.
Mhmm.
What can you do to do that?
(43:54):
Learn more about other cultures, learn more about
other people's experiences,
and learn more about them as people.
You know what I used to do,
and I still do to this day? What?
Whenever somebody tells me,
like, for example, there's a couple people at
work that
(44:15):
are Native American,
and
they started explaining, you know, this and that.
And
I took the time to actually Google it
and look up information on it.
So that way next time we talk about
it,
I can ask more questions. You can be
(44:35):
more informed. I can be more informed of
that.
I think I think that's brilliant. I think
that that's absolutely
what we're talking about here Mhmm. Is
understanding your biases
and also
working to
understand other people,
both by asking questions and also by doing
(44:57):
your own research.
Yeah.
Another thing is
that
when we hear things that are wrong,
like calling someone a racial slur,
giving the woman the job of cleaning the
trailer as a laborer,
or putting the Hispanic plumbers down in the
trench to dig it,
(45:20):
we challenge it. We speak up. We say
something.
We be the change we wanna see Yeah.
Which is
way harder done than said.
So what about companies? What can companies do?
I think one thing they could do is
inclusive hiring. Mhmm. First of all, when they're
like, oh, well, they're a good culture fit
(45:41):
for us. Well, do they look exactly like
you? Is the culture fit wanting to go
grab a beer with you after work?
Like, what is like, take a look at
why you're hiring the people you are.
Yeah. Get to learn about them.
Learn who they are. Get to know them.
Another thing you can do is training.
Have you seen those HR videos on hizzing
(46:04):
and harassment?
Oh, the HR videos that were recorded 1994?
Those ones. Yes. And the ones that they
don't really care about stuff and they looked
very scripted?
Training?
When we say do training, we're not saying
put everyone in front of
a TV
and make them watch a video. But if
(46:25):
you wanna do training,
have someone come in. Have someone connect with
your people.
Have them help them understand why it's such
a problem. Because you know what? When you
see a TV, it's not a connection. You're
not gonna connect with that. You have to
see the people who are experiencing this these
issues as actual people.
(46:45):
Mhmm. Not just as, oh, it was Amy
in video
module number two. Yeah.
Do training. And you know what? If you're
looking for some training, we are starting to
offer that. So reach out to us at
the blueprint for change podcast if that's something
you're interested in. Mhmm.
Another thing you can do is mentorship programs,
(47:08):
pairing people who have different backgrounds. And the
last thing you can do is implement policies.
Mhmm.
So if something does happen, stand by your
policies.
Yep.
Don't just go, well, you know, we really
like him, and he's worked here for twenty
five years. And so we're gonna give him
a pass. Like, stand by your fucking policies.
(47:31):
I mean, that brings us to the end.
I mean, it's all about
understanding
understanding
what diversity is, what it means to construction,
and how we can start to foster
better diversity.
So for that,
if you're an individual,
try to understand a different perspective.
(47:53):
If you're someone who went to high school,
try and understand someone who went to college
and what what's their perspective
on
the trade that they're working on. If you're
someone who's from Puerto Rico, try to understand
a Canadian's perspective
A.
And where they come from. If you're a
company,
(48:13):
start
genuinely
looking at what you're doing
to try and foster diversity
in your company.
And whether it's just sitting people in front
of a screen
or whether it's something that you live and
breathe and you care about and your people
know it. Yeah. You know what?
I want our listeners to do something.
(48:34):
Okay.
Tomorrow or the next day
or every day,
try to get to know one person in
your job site.
Who doesn't
have the same background as you? Yep. Who
doesn't come from the same background as you.
Just initiate a conversation
and get to know them.
(48:55):
It doesn't mean that they have to be
in your same company. They have they can
be from a different trade.
Just get to know them. Even if they
look grumpy,
just get to know them. You never know.
Sometimes the grumpy people are the fun ones.
Mhmm.
So with that, that is the end of
episode
three,
the diversity deficit, what's holding construction back.
(49:19):
And don't forget,
this change is only gonna happen.
One conversation,
one person,
one jobs at a time.
See you next week.
Welcome to the Blueprint for Change podcast where
we tackle construction culture
one conversation, one person, one job site at
a time. My name is Taylor Boilow. And
I am Hector Lebron. And welcome to episode
three of the Blueprint for Change podcast.
To kick off our third episode,
wanna start off with a shout out to
(00:31):
our listeners because
without them, we genuinely
would not this podcast wouldn't exist. So here's
a quick shout out to you guys.
Round of applause.
You guys, we have 61
listeners across The United States and Canada, and
that is Thank you. Incredible.
(00:53):
Yes. It's just it's
it's spreading, and I like it. And it's
we're all together, we're gonna make a change.
And we have 14 regular listeners.
That means 14 people
tuned in to episode one, and then they
watched it the very first day for episode
(01:14):
two.
Shout out to I know a couple of
those listeners.
Save.
Yep.
The whole mission of this company
wouldn't be anything without everyone else. Because the
reality is
without our listeners, without
anyone
trying to make a difference in construction,
culture's never gonna change there.
(01:36):
So to those of you who are listening
and who are starting to take actions or
maybe thinking about even just taking action,
you guys are the change. Mhmm. You are
what this podcast is all about.
Yep. And if you wanna help us expand
this, if you want if you like
if you agree with what we're talking about
and you think that more people need to
(01:56):
hear about it, please give us a share.
Mhmm.
Because that's the only way that this change
is gonna happen is by word-of-mouth.
The word-of-mouth
is the best way
of just sharing anything.
I mean, if you listen to our last
episode, grassroots movements. Yep. That's what we're doing.
Yep. Word-of-mouth is how we are going to
(02:17):
change construction.
And you are part of that change. Mhmm.
But yeah. No. Shout out to you guys.
Thank you. Also, quick announcement for all those
listening. We are on some new streaming platforms.
We're not just on the website anymore.
We're on
Spotify. We are on Amazon Music. You wanna
ask Alexa to listen to us? You can
ask Alexa.
(02:38):
She knows who we are.
We're also on iHeartRadio.
So
Apple Music soon to be. It's my fault.
I will take the blame for that.
TBD this week, honestly. It's okay. This week,
we are going to get on Apple Podcasts.
But for now, you have other means of
listening to us, and we believe in you.
If you've been following us since the website,
(02:59):
you are literally our OG listeners.
You had to bear with us through that.
So thank you. And
you know what? Let's get started.
Yep. So today's episode, episode three, the diversity
deficit.
What's holding construction back. We're We're gonna be
talking about all about diversity. So the best
place to start with this is what is
(03:20):
diversity? Hector, what do you think it is?
I don't know.
Many different things, but
I think it's a different,
obviously, in people.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Cultures.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Especially, you know, cultures, ideas.
I mean, really, if you think about it,
(03:41):
diversity is any differences between people.
That could be race.
That could be
gender,
sexuality,
background. There's so many different things that diversity
can be.
I think that an analogy that I found
that I really liked online is that
diversity in construction is like when you build
a building. Right?
(04:03):
You can't just build it out of one
material. You can't just build a building out
of steel
or out of wood.
You need
the roof. You need the EIFS. You need
the carpet. You need the tile.
Every piece of the building
contributes to it. Right?
If you build a building out of a
single material, it's not gonna be that strong.
(04:23):
Even look at concrete. Right? Concrete needs steel.
It needs rebar in order to for it
to be strong enough. To reinforce.
Yeah. Right?
So
a team
made up of only one type of material
may work
and may be functional,
but it won't be as strong or adaptable
(04:44):
or innovative as one that incorporates different elements.
Right?
So that's what diversity is. Now that we
understand what that is, let's let's give you
a quick overview
of the episode and what we're gonna cover.
We're gonna talk about the current state of
construction.
What how diverse are we actually?
Not really. Hint.
(05:06):
We are gonna be talking about why diversity
matters and why you should care.
Mhmm. What the challenges are to actually implementing
diversity and why diversity doesn't always stick in
construction. Mhmm. And then finally, we're gonna be
talking about what you, our listeners as individuals,
and for those of you who are decision
makers at companies, what companies can do.
(05:28):
So let's get started. Current state of construction.
Alright, Hector. We're gonna go for we're gonna
I'm gonna ask you questions. We're gonna see
how well you know construction. Alright.
What percentage
of
the construction workforce Mhmm. Is women?
(05:50):
20%.
Ten.
That was close.
So
we're gonna try and help help you figure
this out. So if you imagine there are
10 people standing in front of you Mhmm.
I guarantee you, you know 10 people. Mhmm.
Imagine that one of them is a woman.
That is a representation of construction,
one in 10. Mhmm.
(06:11):
I know from my experience,
I've been
I like I went to engineering. Right? So
I was always kinda like the lone female,
and then I kinda found in my group,
and Right. We started working together. But I
remember it wasn't until my third internship. I
was sitting in a daily stand up,
and there were probably about 50 people in
that room.
(06:33):
And I sat there and I actually looked
around at every single person. I was like,
wait a second.
Like, out of 50 people, it was foreman
and superintendents and project managers. I'm like, I
am literally the only woman.
Mhmm.
It's insane. But then I've also seen the
opposite where there's, like, specific TGB goals on,
(06:54):
subcontractors
and on workforce.
And my last project that I was on,
it was a government project.
There were so many women. It was so
cool to see the diversity and be like,
oh my god. I'm not the only woman
on this job site or on this floor
or in this room. Right?
Yeah. I know how that feels like.
Well, let let's talk about that next. Alright.
(07:17):
Well, you know, clearly, I'm not a woman.
One.
Two. Let's start there.
You know? Why don't you talk talk a
little bit about your heritage? Well, I'm Puerto
Rican,
born and raised,
and everybody sees the typical Puerto Rican in
their mind, and they think Bad Bunny.
(07:37):
But we're not all like that.
Puerto Ricans come in different colors and different
sizes and
all different shapes.
And I am
on the darker scale,
and there's nothing wrong with that. But
moving up here to Minnesota,
(07:58):
I
noticed, obviously, you know, coming from Florida
Yeah.
Where you see and Florida is like another
melting pot.
You can interpret that in many different ways.
But Well, especially for the Hispanic
population in Florida because you have Cuba, you
have the Dominican Republic, you have Mexico. It's
not just that. Closer to the border. It's
(08:19):
right there
where it's
South America,
Central America can get to it. Yep. So
there's so many different ethnicities,
you know, and you pick up and you
learn and
and it it it was
yes.
It's
it's bad down there to work right now,
(08:41):
especially how
close minded
it is in the South. Yeah. Right?
No offense to anybody in the South. Not
saying that everybody in the South is close
minded, but
speaking in construction wise, they're
It's difficult to work down there. Right. I
mean, we've both talked about our experiences minus
a woman down in the South and you
(09:02):
as someone who is Hispanic down in the
South.
You know, racism It's difficult. Discrimination, harassment.
Hazing. Hazing,
you know.
But,
yeah, down south, you know, as a Spanish
person You'll see people like you. Right. Moving
up here,
you know, my first job site out here,
(09:26):
I was
the only
Hispanic person.
And then
randomly I saw
Hispanic people coming through the office and they
started talking to me in Spanish and I
was just like,
okay.
We exist up here. I'm not the only
one. No. You have a good point. Like,
with regards to,
(09:48):
your experience
as a Hispanic male, I mean,
let's talk about race then. What percentage of
the population do you think is Hispanic for
construction?
I know it's more than half.
Nope.
Really?
Really.
Damn, man. There's a lot of us.
(10:09):
Just saying.
Shout out.
So according
to,
5%.
You'll be like, woo.
So I want you to imagine,
again, 10 people standing in front of you.
Mhmm. Six of those people are gonna be
white.
(10:30):
Three of them are gonna be Hispanic.
And then one of them will be black,
Asian, or some other race. So that's kind
of the current state of
race in construction.
Do you have any, like, thoughts or any
comments
with regards to that?
(10:51):
I don't know. Because I feel like
down south,
you look around and there is
you can count
how many,
like, white guys work there.
Oh, yeah.
In one hand or two hands?
It's usually under five. Usually, you can count
out on one hand.
(11:12):
Okay. So we talked about gender. We talked
about race.
What about age?
So
have you heard I know, like, on my
end, like, going to conferences and being in
the office a lot longer, I've heard a
lot about the workforce crisis.
Have you heard about this at all, Hector?
I've heard of the workforce
(11:33):
crisis.
Yes. I've heard a lot of the workforce
crisis.
What is the workforce crisis?
Not a lot of people in construction right
now.
The old people are retiring, and the new
people are not
really
(11:53):
Replacing them. Yeah.
So
good point. So, yeah, essentially, the baby boomers,
because there were so many people in the
baby boomer generation Mhmm. That entered into construction
and are now retiring, there aren't enough people
to actually replace them.
So So when you look at age, when
we talk about the proportions of the different
(12:15):
generations,
baby boomers have are are starting to phase
out. So, obviously, they're a little bit lower.
Millennials and Gen Xers are our highest.
That's And then
that's the next. That's what's now the yeah.
Like you said, boomers are phasing out.
Now what's coming up is x and millennials.
(12:35):
X is already there,
but millennials are coming up. Yes. Yes.
And then right behind them, we have my
generation,
gen z. Oh, lord.
Generation zebra.
It's okay. The the youngest generation always gets
shit shat on. So
(12:56):
Not necessarily.
How many people hated millennials?
Everyone.
I don't remember people hating
well, every generation before
will hate the newer generation because That's what
I just said. We don't understand it.
Okay.
But so yeah. So that's the current state
(13:17):
of construction when we talk about the different
generations. And that's also another form of diversity,
is a diversity in generations.
Mhmm.
Another one is in sexuality.
So
gay, lesbian, transgender,
about two to 5%. So if you had
20 people,
one person is going to be gay, lesbian,
or transgender, or LGBTQIA
(13:39):
plus. But so yeah. So, I mean, sexuality
is another form of diversity. Then we can
also take a look at just, like, background.
So, like,
college degrees.
What percent of,
people in construction do you think have high
school diplomas?
Yes. Me?
Yes. But what percent? I don't know. Honestly,
(14:00):
I do not know. What percentage, Taylor? Fifty
percent.
Oh. Only 50% have high school diplomas. 20%
have bachelor degrees.
Not me. 30%
have other forms like a
certificate.
So these are all different forms of diversity
(14:20):
that we have. So we got background, we
got sexuality, gender, race.
Another thing is, so
I found this really interesting statistic because I
kinda wanna share with everyone.
One in four construction workers
are foreign born.
I E they are not born in The
(14:40):
United States.
One in four? One in four, twenty 5%.
That's that's like, if you look at four
people, one of them
is not gonna be from The United States.
I mean, both of us, like I was
about to say
Or not from The United States. There's an
anomaly here.
(15:01):
Our dog is the only one who was
born on US soil. Yep.
Oklahoma.
I was like, I'm a Canadian for those
of you who are unaware. I'm also American,
but I was born on Canadian soil. And
Hector was born in Puerto Rico.
But it's American soil. American territory.
(15:22):
Ish soil.
I just find that fascinating. One in four
people.
Except in this room. Except for in this
room. Yeah. One in four people in construction
are foreign born. There's so the reason we're
talking about all these different
things and all these different, like,
kinds of diversity in construction
(15:42):
is because
when we think of diversity so many
times we go to race or gender. Right?
Mhmm.
But there's so much more to diversity than
that. There's your background, your education.
There is where you came from. You came
from Puerto Rico. I came from Canada.
You were raised in
New Jersey ish. Mhmm. I was raised in
(16:03):
Minnesota. Like, there are so many cultural differences.
Yes. Yes. Agree.
And, like, even class. You look at class.
Right? Mhmm. Poor, middle, upper class. Where you
come from affects your perspective.
Mhmm. So the more people,
the different perspectives we can bring together,
we wanna take a look at why it
matters. Why do we want all these people
(16:24):
together? I mean, obviously, it's good to recognize
it. Right?
But why why do you think diversity matters?
You know, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking
I'm like, it's just
everyone brings something different to the table, something
different. Have you ever worked on a diverse
team before? Yes.
(16:46):
There's a superintendent
back in Florida that I met. Who was
from?
Minnesota.
Woo.
From specifically
Albert Lee.
And
he
oh, lord.
He was a very different person from anyone
(17:08):
I've ever met in construction.
We were just arguing
all the time.
And mind you, I was very fresh at
being a superintendent.
This was his first job as a superintendent.
He had years of experience in this.
Right? Like, probably thirty. Yeah. He had Thirty
to forty. Forty. He had as many years
of his experience in construction as I was
(17:30):
alive.
He understood that I was very inexperienced.
He also understood that I was a hothead.
I understood that he had very antique ways
of doing things,
and I you know, he had
he said certain things that he should've never
(17:51):
said.
So what do you think you learned from
him?
Patience,
believe it or not.
What do you think the superintendent learned from
you?
I guess he also learned
his version of patience
(18:12):
with me.
We we both had to learn so
in order to learn from the next person,
you have to have a certain form of
patience because
you are in a different
wavelength than they are.
But
if you can understand
(18:32):
why they are in their ways
and why they got there. Yeah.
So you start to open up. You start
to understand. You start to peel the layers
off.
And then maybe through that understanding,
you can come to understand Yeah. And possibly
learn from each other. But all that comes
from patience. You have to have that. You
have to be willing
(18:54):
to accept that Yeah. And willing to let
this other person in
in a way, but you have to have
patience.
Right?
So maybe what
you learned from him
was
Understanding
acceptance.
Understanding acceptance and also
learning
(19:15):
how to control your temper a little bit.
And maybe superintendent's way wasn't always the
only way to do things, that there are
other ways to get things done on a
job site. Yeah. No. Exactly.
So, I mean, that's a perfect example of
why diversity matters because we can learn from
one another. Yeah.
(19:36):
And
if let's say you're like, well, that's great.
I I'll learn from the next person. I
can learn from someone who looks just the
same, comes from the same background as me.
That's great.
Let's talk about the actual impact at company
having a non diverse workforce.
Well,
76%
(19:57):
of employees and job seekers say
that diversity is important
when considering a job offer.
So we're talking about this workforce crisis, right?
And we're talking about how
there's not enough people in construction
to
sustain us with what we're doing. Right? Mhmm.
(20:17):
We need to attract more talent.
And when that talent, 76%
of them care about diversity,
I wouldn't characterize
construction as diverse. Would you?
It depends.
I mean,
because when you go to a different state,
you see
(20:38):
a difference in that. Think about it. If
you go to Florida right now,
what are you gonna see in a job
site
as soon as you walk in?
A lot of Hispanic people. Exactly.
Now,
boom.
You teleport
to a job site
(21:02):
in Fargo.
It's gonna be a bunch of white people,
but that's a lack of diversity on those
job sites. I know. But It's all Hispanic
or all white people. It's not just
that. Well, yes. Yeah. No. Yeah. A %.
But you know where I do agree with
you on that construction is diverse?
(21:23):
The people that you talk to and where
they came from,
you're going to find the widest range of
people
in construction
as far as what they did previously.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
From art major
to,
ex convict to a priest to nurse.
(21:45):
Yeah. Like, you you're gonna run into everyone,
which is, I think, one of the few
ways that construction is really diverse. Yeah. Yeah.
And even
even in the trades
coming
having a background in the different type of
trades, some people start
as a carpenter and years later they say,
you know what? I wanna be an ironworker.
(22:07):
Or some days they started, no. I'm an
ironworker and you know what? I'm gonna be
a plumber. Yep.
And you learn so many different, you know,
things from different trades as well. So that's
another
diverse
thing. How construction is diverse? Yep.
Another benefit. So we've talked about how
(22:30):
if we
want to
attract more people into our industry,
we need to start focusing on diversity with
76%
of them caring about. Right? Mhmm. Another thing
is it's going to just straight up increase
your profits. More diverse teams
are more profitable.
Also,
they make better decisions.
(22:52):
So a diverse team
make better decisions than nondiverse
teams
up to 87%
of the time.
We all wanna make better decisions.
We all have tough decisions to make every
day.
Yeah. Yes. We do. So if we can
make better decisions 87%
(23:14):
of the time,
I'll sign up for it. Right?
I mean, another thing is when you look
at diversity I mean,
you talked about the South. Right? Yeah. And
about how when you walk on a job
site, there are
a lot of Hispanic workers.
What do you see when you look at
the leadership on-site, like superintendents, foreman?
(23:37):
That's a different story.
What are they?
White.
Okay.
Do you think having some diversity
in leadership on-site
could help with coordinating work? Yeah.
I don't know. I feel like
some
(23:57):
and I know this is might sound weird,
but
some Hispanic
people
like having
someone that speaks Spanish
in their leadership.
They feel more comfortable
having that person
(24:18):
communicate in their language. In their native language.
Yeah. Their first language. But I mean,
there are just so many different cultures and
so many different ways that people view things.
And when we have that different approaches, like
different ways of looking at things, we're gonna
have more creative solutions. Right? Mhmm. If we're
looking,
let's say there's an object on the table.
(24:40):
Right? Mhmm.
And you're looking from your perspective and you're
like, it's a building. And I'm looking from
my perspective and I'm like,
no. It's a refrigerator.
Right? Okay.
But it's
we're looking at two sides of the same
object. Yes. Different perspectives.
And we can argue all day. I'm like,
it's a refrigerator, and you can say it's
(25:01):
a building.
But until we can actually communicate and talk
about it from our different perspectives
Mhmm.
It's
it's mute. Right?
It doesn't matter. We need to be able
to do that because when we can see
the whole
the whole of it,
we can work on creating a better solution.
(25:22):
We can work on trying to figure out
what we need to do. Mhmm.
Another thing is we can leverage each other's
strengths.
Yes.
So, like, if we look at generations,
I'm a gen z. You're a millennial.
Millennials do have strengths. I mean, you guys
are really good at working in groups. Millennials
(25:43):
are typically
good at working in groups.
They really like to be coached and mentored.
Mhmm.
They're good at collaboration. They're they're
they're about people and they're about people working
together.
Whereas when you look at gen z, my
generation,
gen z cares about the world
(26:05):
a lot. I I know that past generations
have two, but, I mean, social causes. We're
talking about social equality. We're talking about
classism. We're talking about environmental responsibility.
We
when I go
and decide whether or not I'm gonna work
for a company, I take a look at
their mission statement. I look at take a
(26:25):
look at their social media and see what
they're actually doing for the general community because
that's really important for people like us. So
we're able to push forward causes and look
at the greater impact on the world around
us.
And you can get everyone together to collaborate.
Boomers can bring the experience, and Gen x
can be like,
(26:45):
I don't know why I put up with
all you.
So from now on, when you apply for
a job, instead of just sitting there thinking,
oh, how much are they paying me?
Don't just go straight for the money.
Also think, what are they offering? What else
are they bringing to the table besides just
a paycheck?
Yeah. Something where you feel aligned with their
(27:07):
values. Right. It's not just for companies to
decide whether or not you're a good fit.
It's up to you to decide whether they're
a good fit for you.
So if diversity is such a great thing,
and we've we've talked about it, and we've
talked about how construction
lacks it on a lot of levels,
there are a lot of challenges
(27:29):
when it comes to construction
and why we don't have a diverse workforce.
So I think we should go from, like,
kinda start to beginning and talk about why
it's hard to get people into it
and then why people leave.
So
let's start with
trying to get people hired.
(27:52):
So do you know what blind hiring is?
Isn't that what happens all the time? No.
No. It's not. Usually, people there's an actual
person looking at their resume. Like, there'll be,
like, a robot, and then an HR person
or a recruiter will go through and actually
look at the resume, review it, and then
decide whether or not they move on to
the next round.
(28:13):
What blind hiring is is that you don't
get to know the name,
the race,
any sort of
information that may skew your bias.
But blind hiring increases the likelihood
that women will be hired by 25 to
46%
because they don't see that it's a woman's
name. Now if you think that's bad,
(28:35):
white sounding names on resumes get 50%
more callbacks for interviews than black sounding names.
That explains a lot.
No. But here's the reality. Right? Yeah.
Every single one of us has an unconscious
bias.
We are wired
(28:56):
to like people who are like us. Take
away race. Take away gender.
If I like rock climbing
and I meet someone else who likes rock
climbing,
we're gonna have similar experiences. I can talk
about the time I climbed this mountain. They
can talk about the time they climbed that
mountain.
I'm in Minnesota.
Someone else is from Minnesota.
(29:17):
We can talk about how we went up
to Mille Lacs. We can talk about Mhmm.
Rainy Lake. We can talk about the Long
Island iced teas and Minneapolis and what's going
on back there. We can connect over similar
things.
We are wired to like people who are
like us, and we are wired to distance
ourselves from people who are different than us
(29:37):
or have distrust in them.
Yes. The distrust part.
And, I mean, like, what we just talked
about, the like, there's so many studies done
on
why people
don't necessarily get
into
a job because of
(29:58):
their gender or their race. And, I mean,
that's just where we started. I actually I
don't know if I've told you this. I
don't put my graduation date on my resume.
Why is that?
I don't put it because it dates me.
It tells people how young I am. Mhmm.
There's actually been some research into that as
well. But, I mean,
(30:20):
if you look at at hiring managers,
eighty five to 97%
rely on intuition
as of 2022,
according to LinkedIn,
as to whether or not someone's gonna move
to the next round or whether someone's or
not someone's gonna get a job.
That's not good.
And not only that forty eight percent of
HR managers
(30:41):
admitted
that bias affected their candidate's choice,
who they chose. They're like, well, I kinda
like this person. I could see getting a
beer with them, that whole thing. Yeah. I
know.
That shouldn't be
how you
define getting
a person into your team.
(31:02):
No. Because the reality is you're gonna wanna
go get a beer
with someone who's like you,
not someone who's gonna challenge you or have
different perspectives. Mhmm.
If you think about,
like, a job site gate. Right?
There are a bunch of people trying to
get into the job site, and every single
one of them has to open up the
gate in order to get in.
(31:24):
There are some people that can
scan in and just go right in. Zero
issues. Mhmm. There are other people who struggles
to get through. They scan it and
door won't unlock. They try and open the
door, but it gets jammed. They try and
use a key, but the key isn't quite
the right. And
(31:44):
there are people who struggle to get through
that, and they have to
face
workarounds
or face delays in trying to get in.
If you wait around long enough,
why the heck are you gonna stick around?
But, I mean, when we talk about trying
to get people into construction,
(32:05):
it's first of all getting people interested into
construction, and then
it's trying to get people into the door.
Yeah. And construction right now doesn't look appealing
to anyone. So
Why is that?
Because of the toxicity.
The amount
of toxicity
that
(32:26):
exists in this industry.
Do you think that is better or worse
for people who are of more diverse backgrounds?
What do you mean? The toxicity?
Yep.
Better or worse for people diverse?
Worse.
Way worse. Right?
Tenfold.
(32:49):
I just, like,
I just don't
I don't get the hatred
or the just dislike towards people who aren't
like us.
Because it's something that you don't know what
it is.
Yeah.
(33:10):
So if you don't know what it is,
you, a,
the I feel like the initial thought
is just fear it because I don't know
what the hell it's gonna do.
So I gotta
brace for whatever
is gonna happen.
(33:31):
I feel like that's
the main thing. Do you think it's almost
like a fear of that person's gonna
possibly challenge my beliefs
or disagree with me?
You don't like, I feel like the the
first initial, like, people is is just fear.
(33:54):
Yeah. It's that fear. Like, yes. This person
difference. This person is gonna challenge my beliefs.
So
let's say someone gets past the first round.
Right? Mhmm.
They actually have an interest in construction and
aren't shut down from it.
They then get through the whole application process,
(34:16):
get a job,
then they have to stay in construction.
And I was telling you about this before
I got on the podcast, and I was
like, this is disgusting. So this is a
study done by Construction Dive in 2020
about
racism
and
(34:36):
other issues on the job site.
42%
of people, according to the survey had seen
racist graffiti. Mhmm. 38%
heard verbal abuse or racial racial slurs. Mhmm.
31%
has seen minorities given undesirable
task.
25%
knew of workers who didn't get hired because
(34:57):
of their race. Mhmm. And 15%
has seen a noose or other racist object
in the job site.
Mhmm. And the worst part of everything,
if there is a worst part of everything,
is that 77%
of respondents said nothing was done to address
these problems.
And I can attest to all of that.
(35:20):
Why don't you share a little bit about
your experience
being Hispanic on a job site and perhaps
of the things that you experienced because you
were
not
the majority
there?
I've been on job sites where they only
had the Spanish guys do the underground for
the plumbers.
(35:41):
We were never allowed to use
like, it would be the white guy in
the machinery,
and it would be us
in the dirt.
I've seen
(36:02):
tons of
porta john graffitis
that one day it'll make you laugh, the
next day it just makes you angry. It
just makes you not wanna go to that
job site anymore
because it's new it's just new shit every
day. Yep. You know?
And it just it gets annoying.
(36:23):
And you
That's not okay. No. No.
By no fucking means is that okay.
And sorry for my language, but it's just
it gets
it gets under my skin real fast.
And I mean, people have used racial slurs
at you. I know that. Oh, yeah. I'm
not gonna repeat them right now. But No.
It's just
(36:45):
to me, to my dad, I've worked with
my father in the field
for many years, and,
you know,
we've
usually, what would happen is if somebody would
say something like that or whatnot, I would
be
being in Florida. Staffing agencies are the bread
and butter.
Yep. Right?
(37:07):
I would just call my boss and be
like, you know what? I heard this and
this in the job site. Well, did you
report it? Well, what's the point? Last time
I reported it, this and this happened, they
retaliated,
and I had to leave the job site.
So
oh, okay. Well, where else do you wanna
go? I got this. I got this. I'll
go there. Okay. Try this one. See how
(37:28):
it goes.
So
It's just like
so you make it in and then you
have to withstand all of that. Mhmm. And,
like, you're you're not you Right. Like, you
are If you make it in
if you make it in, if this company
saw you and they were like, yep. This
is the guy I want.
(37:49):
Right? Unless you have some form of pull,
your friend spoke for you, or someone got
you in. Nope. If it's a company that
you don't know, nothing. If you get in,
then you have to deal with all the
other shit
plus the work.
Yes. You know? It just
And I wanna also step in here and
(38:10):
just say, like,
we're not saying we hate all white men.
That's not what we're saying No. At all.
We are talking about specific
statistics and studies we've seen done.
I wanna, first of all, acknowledge
that
anyone entering into the industry is going through
going to go through harassment or hazing
(38:30):
or something to the effect. It is a
cultural issue.
The reality is with young white men who
enter into the workforce
as they progress from apprentice to
journeyman
to
lead person or foreman even. Right? Mhmm.
They outgrow that status of being young.
(38:52):
They outgrow that status of being the new
person on-site.
The problem with being
from a visible
minority
is that
you will never be able to get rid
of that.
I can't change the fact that I'm a
woman.
Hector can't change the fact that he's Hispanic,
(39:14):
and there's no way for us to hide
that from other people.
Nope.
It doesn't matter if I am the vice
president of a general contractor
or an apprentice on-site. I'm always gonna be
a woman. Mhmm.
So with that being said, I mean, let's
talk about women on the job site. Right?
Once I already found that only 19%
(39:36):
only 19%
of
women
received appropriately sized gloves and safety gear.
Really?
Walking onto a job site and being given
the appropriate PPE that actually fits Mhmm.
It says
(39:57):
We got you. Yeah. It says,
this is a place where we expect you
to be Mhmm.
And that we are going to support you
in.
It doesn't matter whether it's Luvs or a
fucking porta john.
Yeah.
Because here's the thing. A woman walks on
a job site. There's not a female porta
john on that job site. You wanna know
(40:19):
what that says? We weren't expecting you.
Mhmm.
Oh, shit. We'll have one here next week.
We weren't expecting a woman
to be on our job site.
We tolerate
as a whole, as an industry. Right. We
allow things to happen that we shouldn't. Yeah.
We allow people to do graffiti. We allow
people to say racist shit. We allow
(40:43):
we don't order the proper PPE.
We don't order
the appropriate things to make people feel welcome
onto our job site. Mhmm.
Or even say things to make people feel
welcome on our job site. Or
make people feel safe on our job site.
So why would a diverse workforce stay when
they're going to be constantly under attack? Don't
(41:03):
get me wrong. You
may find that team that's great,
and you feel comfortable and safe, and you
wanna stick with them for forever. Right.
But you have to put up with all
this shit until you get there.
It's why people are leaving. Mhmm.
People get in. I mean, I've thought about
(41:25):
quitting. I know you've thought about I don't
know a single person in construction who hasn't
thought about quitting. Every day that ends with
a y, I think about quitting construction. And
I think about staying in construction
because it's such a love hate relationship.
There's no other way to explain it.
I think we should do an episode on
how,
(41:46):
construction is like a toxic relationship.
Oh, god. Yeah.
It is the biggest red flag that we
fell in love with.
So
we talked about diversity,
the current state, talked about why it's hard
to retain diversity in construction.
(42:07):
We talked about why it's important, how it
can increase profits. How do we actually create
that diversity? How would how do we foster
it? How do we, like, like, survive or
when they're doing that fucking
fire challenge? How do we, like, cradle it
and blow the ember and then turn it
into a fire? How do we get it
there? You gotta nurture it.
What does it take to nurture it?
(42:27):
You gotta understand.
You gotta be more opening.
More
open. Opening. He caught up at, like, 3AM,
so let's forgive him. Yeah. And I gotta
do it again tonight. So I mean, tomorrow
morning.
But
I feel like you gotta nurture it. You
gotta be
understanding.
You gotta be open,
(42:49):
receptive. You gotta just
just,
I don't know, let the change in almost.
I completely agree. You have to be open
to changing.
I think first of all, yes. Understanding the
problem. Mhmm. Understanding
different cultures,
being open minded is absolutely important. I think
another thing is just recognizing
(43:11):
you have a bias.
Mhmm.
I have a bias. You have a
bias. We don't like to talk about it.
No one wants to say, oh, yeah. I
have a bias. I don't whenever I
I just trust these type of people, like
right?
Whether it's someone without a college education or
someone from a specific ethnicity,
(43:32):
we all have biases because of how we
were raised. Mhmm.
But the first step to overcoming that is
recognizing that you have it.
Yeah. And when that thought pops up of,
oh, oh, I don't know about this, look
at it and evaluate whether or not it's
your unconscious bias.
Mhmm.
What can you do to do that?
(43:54):
Learn more about other cultures, learn more about
other people's experiences,
and learn more about them as people.
You know what I used to do,
and I still do to this day? What?
Whenever somebody tells me,
like, for example, there's a couple people at
work that
(44:15):
are Native American,
and
they started explaining, you know, this and that.
And
I took the time to actually Google it
and look up information on it.
So that way next time we talk about
it,
I can ask more questions. You can be
(44:35):
more informed. I can be more informed of
that.
I think I think that's brilliant. I think
that that's absolutely
what we're talking about here Mhmm. Is
understanding your biases
and also
working to
understand other people,
both by asking questions and also by doing
(44:57):
your own research.
Yeah.
Another thing is
that
when we hear things that are wrong,
like calling someone a racial slur,
giving the woman the job of cleaning the
trailer as a laborer,
or putting the Hispanic plumbers down in the
trench to dig it,
(45:20):
we challenge it. We speak up. We say
something.
We be the change we wanna see Yeah.
Which is
way harder done than said.
So what about companies? What can companies do?
I think one thing they could do is
inclusive hiring. Mhmm. First of all, when they're
like, oh, well, they're a good culture fit
(45:41):
for us. Well, do they look exactly like
you? Is the culture fit wanting to go
grab a beer with you after work?
Like, what is like, take a look at
why you're hiring the people you are.
Yeah. Get to learn about them.
Learn who they are. Get to know them.
Another thing you can do is training.
Have you seen those HR videos on hizzing
(46:04):
and harassment?
Oh, the HR videos that were recorded 1994?
Those ones. Yes. And the ones that they
don't really care about stuff and they looked
very scripted?
Training?
When we say do training, we're not saying
put everyone in front of
a TV
and make them watch a video. But if
(46:25):
you wanna do training,
have someone come in. Have someone connect with
your people.
Have them help them understand why it's such
a problem. Because you know what? When you
see a TV, it's not a connection. You're
not gonna connect with that. You have to
see the people who are experiencing this these
issues as actual people.
(46:45):
Mhmm. Not just as, oh, it was Amy
in video
module number two. Yeah.
Do training. And you know what? If you're
looking for some training, we are starting to
offer that. So reach out to us at
the blueprint for change podcast if that's something
you're interested in. Mhmm.
Another thing you can do is mentorship programs,
(47:08):
pairing people who have different backgrounds. And the
last thing you can do is implement policies.
Mhmm.
So if something does happen, stand by your
policies.
Yep.
Don't just go, well, you know, we really
like him, and he's worked here for twenty
five years. And so we're gonna give him
a pass. Like, stand by your fucking policies.
(47:31):
I mean, that brings us to the end.
I mean, it's all about
understanding
understanding
what diversity is, what it means to construction,
and how we can start to foster
better diversity.
So for that,
if you're an individual,
try to understand a different perspective.
(47:53):
If you're someone who went to high school,
try and understand someone who went to college
and what what's their perspective
on
the trade that they're working on. If you're
someone who's from Puerto Rico, try to understand
a Canadian's perspective
A.
And where they come from. If you're a
company,
(48:13):
start
genuinely
looking at what you're doing
to try and foster diversity
in your company.
And whether it's just sitting people in front
of a screen
or whether it's something that you live and
breathe and you care about and your people
know it. Yeah. You know what?
I want our listeners to do something.
(48:34):
Okay.
Tomorrow or the next day
or every day,
try to get to know one person in
your job site.
Who doesn't
have the same background as you? Yep. Who
doesn't come from the same background as you.
Just initiate a conversation
and get to know them.
(48:55):
It doesn't mean that they have to be
in your same company. They have they can
be from a different trade.
Just get to know them. Even if they
look grumpy,
just get to know them. You never know.
Sometimes the grumpy people are the fun ones.
Mhmm.
So with that, that is the end of
episode
three,
the diversity deficit, what's holding construction back.
(49:19):
And don't forget,
this change is only gonna happen.
One conversation,
one person,
one jobs at a time.
See you next week.
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