Fitness Isn’t One-Size-Fits-All: Menopause, Metabolism & Training Science with Dr. Abbie Smith-Ryan

(00:00:00) Fitness Isn’t One-Size-Fits-All: Menopause, Metabolism & Training Science with Dr. Abbie Smith-Ryan
(00:07:17) How does science come into play?
(00:10:33) It's not one size fits all and here's why
(00:30:06) Women and creatine
(00:42:10) Supplements to help with brain fog

In this refreshingly honest and research-backed episode, Dr. Abbie Smith-Ryan returns to The Body Pod to cut through the noise around women’s fitness, menopause, and metabolism. From fasted vs. fed workouts to creatine for women, metabolic flexibility, and the role of cardio vs. strength training, this episode delivers science-based clarity and practical advice for women navigating midlife health and fitness.

You’ll learn how to:

• Train smarter—not harder—through hormonal changes
• Optimize fat loss and body composition with science
• Build strength and energy in your 40s, 50s, and beyond
• Use creatine and strength training to support longevity
• Improve performance through personalized nutrition

Whether you're a coach, a seasoned lifter, or just starting your fitness journey, this episode empowers you to trust your body, train with confidence, and adapt with science. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, This is Hayley and I'm Lara and welcome
to the Body Pod. Hi everyone. Today on the Body
Pod we get to speak with doctor Abby Smith Ryan,
who is a Professor of Exercise Physiology, adjunct Associate Professor

(00:21):
in the Department of Nutrition, director of the Applied Physiology Lab,
and co director of the Human Performance Center in the
Department of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of
North Carolina Chapel Hill. Abby has done remarkably well to
publish over two hundred evidence based papers. Abby talks about
the challenges for women in science and also her research

(00:44):
with female exercise physiology. I like to call Abby the
voice of reason. She has an incredible gift of being
able to break through the noise and confusion with sound
knowledge and recommendations. You will love this episode as much
as we loved interviewing Abby again.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Let's dive in.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Thanks for being back on the Body Pod round two
this year.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
We're back.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
We're back. There was so much to discuss we barely
got I think half of it covered Laura last time,
so we had to have you on for a part too,
So thank you so much for sharing your time with
us this morning. Today, what I really want to cover
in the menopause space right now, it is a blood
bath of this ongoing disproving this theory, disproving this person,

(01:41):
constant war where it's so it's it's confusing for people
in the industry like myself, but it's also twice as
confusing and disheartening for gen pop. So let's start there.
Where do you see I guess in the menopause space

(02:02):
if we look at just let's start with nutrition. If
we look at nutrition, and let's cover maybe the fasted
versus fed massive debate here. Is there a camp that
is clearly right one hundred percent of the time or
are there different variations?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Can we rewind just a second for what you said?
And I wanted to say this because I want thanks
for having me on and I say that of like
I get to come talk to some girlfriends, and because
the space is so sad right now. And I will
tell you, even as someone that's been in the space

(02:44):
for a really long time, it's discouraging for everyone and
it's hard. Oftentimes I think of, no, I don't want
to be in this space because it's so combative. When
I then take a step back and say, research is
hard enough as it is, and being a midlife woman
is even harder. So why are we then making it worse?

(03:07):
And I say that because I want my intentions to
be clear. I have nothing I'm selling, and at the
heart of everything that I do is to try and
help others, particularly women, based on science. The hard part
with that, and I wanted to preface your question is one,
as a scientist, we always have hypotheses, but I have

(03:31):
learned and know that hypotheses are hypotheses and you have
to let the data drive that, meaning that we are adaptable,
Like the things I believe now are different based on
evidence that we've gathered over time. And so that's important too,
Like if I am still saying the same things in
ten years, it means that I'm stagnant. And I say

(03:53):
that for me personally, like I know then that means
I've not filtrated new data. The other thing is, as
a scientist, it's really hard to just take one paper
and give your opinion there's one study. You really have
to collectively take a lot of research and then share
that collective opinion. And I think that's where things have

(04:16):
gotten cloudy of like my view of the data and
the story that I tell might be slightly different based
on the same papers, not because I'm interpreting the data different,
but maybe my viewpoint on a mechanism is different or
based on other papers and knowledge. And so I actually
think that's so cool. That means that there is space
for everyone. We need all of the researchers and practitioners

(04:40):
and people in this space to move the needle. We
need to be working together. And if we have difference
of opinions, I think that's awesome because then that makes
me step back and say, oh, should I ask the
question different? Should I look at the data different? And
I wanted to say that because this conversation will be
about my opinion. But I will say, at this point
in my career, I'd like to say I've published over

(05:01):
two hundred papers. And I say that not because like, oh,
look at me, but because there's a lot of integrated
knowledge that I take to give my opinion and it
might be slightly different, and I would love to hear that.
Let's have a conversation about, Okay, well, what are the needs,
what are the differences of opinions, because then that can
make us all better. And so at that same time,

(05:23):
I really love to give some translation, and I know
that's what we're going to talk about.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Of Okay, well what do we tell the women?

Speaker 4 (05:28):
It is so fucking confusing even people in the space.
We don't need any more confusion. And so I don't
have all of the answers, but I know that's what
we talked about, like, hopefully we'll give some dial down answers.
And so your question was about nutrition, and I think
the most important thing is that, regardless of what data says,

(05:51):
every individual male or female response differently, and you can
see that in individual data points, and then we present
average data. And so I say that because a lot
of times people are like, well, oh I do fasted
training and it works great. Okay, a lot of the
work suggests that that's probably not the most effective, but

(06:11):
that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. A lot of
things go into that, and maybe we can talk through
some specifics, but I just that everything has an individual
response that arguably is more important than the evidence.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Mike Drop, I mean, Abby, this is why I love you.
And I've just I just had a podcast with doctor
Mike Ormsby and all of these big people and everyone
in the space like your reputation is the same through
and through. And that's the beautiful part about it is

(06:46):
you are you have this gift to be able to
just make it. Like I'm telling you, I feel like
you would be like my mentor or where I could
go to you and every time I would be confused,
I could get off the phone and be like the
world is good, Like this is all good because you
have an incredible way of just sharing. You know, what

(07:09):
does science? You know, is there something to disprove? Pretty
much most research topics.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Well why do we have to disprove it?

Speaker 4 (07:19):
I mean, it's more about let's continue to see if
that's still the question we should be answering, and is
it the same evidence that we're being given.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
And so again I love.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
The research because there's always more questions to be asked,
even if you ask the same question.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
So I think that's part of the problem.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
It's not about disproving, it's about using evidence to inform
and adapt and impact, and that's the way we should
look at it, and not one should person should be
right or wrong. I do think sometimes even as scientists
we get so excited and maybe overstate or misinterpret, but
it still should be one viewpoint in a culmination of

(08:00):
even application, like the way I do it is probably
not the way that you do it, and it's still okay.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's still evidence based, and.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
So that not disproved, but the ability to adapt and
apply evidence in a variable way.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
That's such an important point.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
I think that you bring up that, regardless of the
evidence or regardless of what we're being told, we have
to be self aware and body aware and.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Is that helping me? Is that working for me?

Speaker 4 (08:32):
And which is why one of the most important takeaways
that we can tell women and men, especially in the US.
I know, you know, not everyone is in the US,
but in general, we have to be owners of our
health and our body and only you know how you respond.
So we need to teach people how what that feels
like and then how to adapt and if it's not

(08:53):
working or it is working, because that's you.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
The only sample that matters is you.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Because if something is working for people in your life,
that doesn't mean it's going to work for you. And
that's one thing I feel like i've really I'm really
learning too to always come back to okay, but what
feels good inside my body.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
And it varies, and I think that's where the hang
up comes from of in midlife and perimenopause, of what
did work for you for so long is now not working?
And it's not just hormones. And I think that's too
if there's not one simple solution. If I take hormones,
it's going to now all respond the same. It's so

(09:37):
many levels and so I think that's part of where
the confusion comes from. And in this space there's even
more variable. So yes, maybe it was working and now
it's not, and that's a valid response. And a woman
needs to be able to say, like, well, when do
I need help?

Speaker 3 (09:53):
What do I do? And if it's still not working?

Speaker 4 (09:56):
Like those are all the things that I think research
can inform, but it's still that practic this that based
on the individual.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yes, And can we really drive home that point because
I try this in my groups that I get head
up like non stop every day, all day, every day
about okay, but I don't feel like I can you know,
eat in the morning, and then I'm for the don't
or I feel really crappy when I get up if

(10:23):
I don't have this okay, So then keep doing that.
If it's working, it doesn't matter there's not one way.
And even if like just sticking with the fast versus fed,
are either of these like going to completely derail your
health journey if you do one or the other, or
is it really if it works for you great? None

(10:46):
of these are like you gonna completely throw you off
where you're not getting any results, And this is.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Why absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
And I think this is where it also is about optimization,
meaning first and foremost, like we my goal is for
women to be active and feel good and improve their health.
And sometimes the only way a woman is going to exercise,
and I would say the same for a man, but
I do think male metabolism is a bit more resilient.

(11:15):
I'll probably get haters for that. I'll come back to that,
but meaning it's not about male female differences. It's about
there's a different mental and physical load on a female
body environmental whatever it may be, mental, and I just
need them to train, exercise, move and feel better. And
sometimes that means not eating before they exercise. Sometimes that

(11:38):
means eating before the exercise. If I take that and say,
all right, in my lab, we've specifically looked at nutrient
timing what to eat around exercise, which leveraged largely male data,
and we saw a gap that said, we actually don't know,
and we know in women and there are some metabolic differences.

(11:59):
So let's go look at that. Let's look at pre
different types of food. Let's look at pre en post
and the data has shown us that eating protein twenty
five grams of a scoop of protein before exercise increases
energy expenditure, increases fat oxidation. That does not mean fat

(12:19):
loss always, and it does seem to allow for a
greater exercise volume, which indirectly might support some better lean mass,
body comp changes and some strength. I will tell you
I exercise and often I don't eat before I exercise,
And I say that of we are the sum of
our collective action. Meaning if I really wanted to modify

(12:43):
body composition, I wanted to be kick ass strong and
that was my goal, then I would dial that in
and probably focus on my nutrient timing prior to because
I know that there's evidence behind it. But in reality,
I don't care about a couple extra hundred calories that
I'm going to burn because I don't have time to
eat that much anyways. And so like, it really does

(13:05):
depend and how we interpret the data. Now, if I
had a woman who was fasting intermittent fasting and having
a problem with low metabolism and weight gain, then I
might say, hey, this.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Is maybe a strategy to try see how you feel.
Do it consistently.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
It might increase energy expenditure, it might help with some
metabolic flexibility, and let's try it well at work.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
Every woman is different, and it also depends on their
previous history. How many times have they dieted, how you know?
Adaptive are there, mitochondria?

Speaker 3 (13:40):
What are what is? You know? How much exercise were
they doing? How much sleep were they getting?

Speaker 4 (13:44):
So it's hard to give those broad recommendations when there's
so many individual factors.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
This is so good, okay, so moving on?

Speaker 3 (13:53):
So good or so confusing?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I don't know, no, because this is what I try
to tell like in all of my groups. If you're
coming in here looking for one answer, you've probably come
to the wrong place because there's I've never had. It's
like going to a physician and the physician saying there's
one antidepressant that works for everyone. Oh it doesn't work
for you, Sorry, you're screwed. Good luck with your depression

(14:16):
and anxiety. There are differences that work for everyone, and
the empowering of females to say, okay, use myself as
an example, let me try faster training for you know,
a couple of months. How did I feel, How did
I recover? How are my lips? How is my sleep?
Does it matter? Maybe some people are like, I can
do fine on both. It doesn't really matter because I

(14:39):
do both as well, and not intentionally. If I get
up and I'm like, shit, i have a call in
forty five minutes, I'm running downstairs and I get on
my bike for a minute, versus most of the time,
if I'm you know, I get up early, and I
will eat before I go to the gym, and I'm
training clients and I'm training myself, and I can't imagine
do doing these really high, you know, intense strength training

(15:05):
sessions with no food in even if I had a
great meal the night before, but now it's nine o'clock
and I'm freaking starving. So there's nuances and answers, I
guess for everyone. So if we're looking at cardio and midlife,
and you kind of touched on fat oxidation, and we
know that you know, the low, slower cardio is going

(15:26):
to burn more fat for most women, and then the
hire is going to pull in more carbohydrate. If someone
isn't as flexible with that, I mean, there are metabolically
inflexible women.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
What do we do with that? A?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
How would you know if you are not flexible? And
B what do we do about it?

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, that's a big question. I would say.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
You probably wouldn't know if you're metabolically inflexible. We measure
it in the lab with some indirect calorimetry. I would say, maybe,
you know, a sign of metabolic inflexibility is if you
are doing exercise and keeping your diet the same and
gaining weight. You know, like if you actually have some
of those controls and you're not overeating, then that could

(16:15):
be a sign of metabolic inflexibility. Or you know, some
increased in blood markers like lipid markers, cholesterol, et cetera.
But by even after you've taken care of some diet
and exercise. But that's so nuanced. What I would say
based on the data is, and again any exercise is

(16:36):
good exercise. But if someone asked me, like I want
to I'm having some of these increases in body fat,
I'm doing all the same things that I'm not seeing responses.
I would say, are you doing some high intensity training
high intensity interval training?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
First, if metabolism is.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Something that I'm looking at, and because there is good
data that suggests that although you are burning more carbohydrate
during the exercise and actually not a lot of calories
during the exercise, if you're truly doing high intensity interval training,
there's a greater metabolic demand after exercise. There's greater energy

(17:13):
expenditure and greater fat oxidation. That still does not make
us more metabolically flexible, but it does stimulate our mitochondria
for those changes in a good way, like mitochondrial health.
But that makes us more kind of adaptive, which is
a part of exercise. That's actually a good thing. But
here's the kicker. That's where some of this nutrition comes in.

(17:37):
If we fast and do exercise, that actually makes your
mitochondria really efficient, which is good, meaning you'll burn for
your calories, you'll be more efficient, you'll be able to
do that exercise and not feel tired. We want that
for exercise. We don't want that if our goal is
weight loss, and that's where some of the changes come in.
Of if you've been an avid exercise or your whole life,

(18:00):
particularly aerobic exercise. I'll raise my hand as a former
collegiate distance runner, But what if I get to a
phase in my life where I don't want to be
so damn efficient, meaning like I could go all day
and not eat and be fine.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
That is not a good spot to be in.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Then we want to make it more inflexible, not inflexible,
less efficient. And that's where some of that like protein
before exercise, high intensity interval training, resistance training, kind of
tapping into and making our body use things and maximize
some of those mitochondrial use like use the mitochondria in

(18:37):
a way it's not used to can make us more inefficient,
which is great for body composition.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
So okay, and this changes this as we get into
this pery post menopause phase of life.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
That inflexibility.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
We have some early data I would say not everybody,
but it does, and we're trying to actually we're doing
study right now to look at some more of those
mechanisms of the inflexibility. Showed some early data in that
moderate intensity exercise that perimounopausal women's some are more inflexible,
meaning they are burning more carbs than fat, which then

(19:19):
over time could hinder their ability to utilize fat and
might suggest that supporting that weight gain. So then the
question is, well, how do we make them more inflexible?
And there's some longer or kind of previous data not
in women, but more in like triathletes, and this idea
of metabolic flexibility. And if you have someone that's burning

(19:43):
mostly carbs when they should be burning fat, adding some
protein and some amino acid kind of blunts that opposed
to carbohydrate. It will allow us to utilize amino acids
and or mostly fat to make us more flexible.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
And that is twofold one.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
We're able to use fat, but it also then allows
us to spare some muscle glicogen which will allow us
to exercise longer, harder without kind of bonking or you know,
maximizing our glicogen stores.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Okay, so when we have and this, okay, this is
the next outside of the flexibility and you know fat
substrate or the you know substrate that we're burning. If
we go back to cardio in general and we look
at women at this time of life, I don't know
a hell of a lot of women that have oodles

(20:39):
of time with nothing to do. This is the busiest time.
I mean, Laura has an you know, an infant, and
I have kids off at college and running like there's
there's not enough hours in the day for most women.
So then they're coming in and they're like, Okay, how
do I maximize the short amount of time that I have?
I mean, I all the time, time get in trouble

(21:01):
for having workouts that are sixty minutes and women rightfully,
so women are like, I have thirty minutes, Hailey, Okay,
so let's give some thirty minute options. So when we
look at Zone two and even HIT, and we look
at those different types of cardio training, we know, correct
me if I'm wrong that to increase because there's a

(21:23):
lot of talk about votwo max and increasing this that
you have to do a heck of a lot of
hours in zone two to change the VO two max
opposed to maybe these shorter sessions or how does that
play into a timeframe of women that are are time crunched.
But you know, and then they're hearing like, okay, well

(21:44):
do I do zone two?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Do I not?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Does does time come into the factor of what you're
getting out of it?

Speaker 4 (21:51):
And I mean it absolutely comes into factor and partly
why we focus on some of these higher intensity, shorter
time requirements, not necessarily because they're better, but in general
most of us don't exercise and don't have enough time
to exercise. And so the best way I like to
describe it is if we wanted aerobic changes to our

(22:14):
VO two max, which is a really important conversation no
one's having because we see such big changes to our
heart health as we age.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's not about fat and always muscle. Our heart health
really matters.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
And if I wanted to see changes in my VO
two max in and I did in an aerobic exercise
you know program, it would take about twelve weeks if
done right, Whereas we can see changes in VO two
max from things like high intensity interval training or higher
training in as little as.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Two to three weeks.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
And so I say that of if our goal is
improving cardiovascular fitness, you can do that in a shorter
period of time. It's higher intensity, and so that's very feasible.
It also takes a mental you know, like I got
to get myself amped up for those high intensity workouts.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
But it's also important too.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think when one of the biggest complaints women have
is joint pain and muscle pain and injury. And so
some of this high intensity training is lower volume. It
is lower volume which can have lower stress on the
body and the joints and prevent some of those things,
or be maybe a little bit easier because it's shorter.
So there's a lot of considerations. And one thing I'll

(23:31):
say is like I love long distance running.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
My body doesn't, but my high brain does.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
And so but I often have to say, Okay, instead
of just going for a run, I need to do
some high intensity training or I only have twenty minutes,
even though my brain is you know, like that feeling
you get used to when you just feel totally spent
when you're done, and that's the only thing that tells
you you had a good workout, that's totally not true,

(24:00):
you know, like it's more of that consistency and working
some other muscles and motor unit recruitment. So yes, that
shorter period of time is very effective for improving cardiovascua health.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
And such a short period of time, which is really valuable.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
This is good news for us.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Well you guys already knew this, I think so. But
for all the women out there.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, to exercise. Snacking literature is pretty cool too. I
haven't bought into that because I'm such a sweaty sweater.
Like if I go exercise or ten minutes, if I
talk about exercise, I'll start sweating. But like you could
do ten minutes and then do later another ten minutes
and ban that's great. It's consistency that you know, whatever

(24:44):
makes you consistent can be really valuable.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yes, And if we look at the recovery penalty that
hit can have, so it has a higher recovery penalty
and time to This also comes into the conversation of
how you're planning out your week and people want to know,
you know, I do this many strength, I do this
many cardio and it's like, okay, well how are you recovering?

(25:08):
And everyone kind of hears that. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
sleep recovery, got it. I hear it all the time.
I know it's important. But that comes into play of
maybe not wanting to smash yourself every day. And so
if you get on there and you have thirty minutes
and the zone two is feeling great today and you
don't feel like you can smash it, I take my workouts,

(25:29):
and this doesn't work well for maybe the type A
person that likes to have it all structured every single day.
And I'm not type A, so this doesn't bother me.
But I have a lot of clients and you know, friends,
and I know a lot of people are but this
is where I will get on my bike in the
basement and some days for no reason at all. Some

(25:50):
days I'll know because I've had crappy sleep or I've
been super stressed, or i didn't eat well the day
before and I'm just feeling zoned. But other days I
get on there and I'm ready to like rev it up,
and it's just not happening. And so I'm like, Okay, cool.
The most important thing is that I'm doing this, So
I'm going to do it for thirty my intended time,
but I'm just going to go low duration today and

(26:12):
it's gonna be fine.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
And that is really like, it doesn't matter what Hayley says,
or what her program says, or what you know anyone
says of whatever program you're doing, you need to be
able to adjust it and trust yourself enough to be
to know that this is not making or breaking your
fitness journey on any given day.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
No, one hundred percent like and it goes back to
our goal. So I had two thoughts when you were talking, like,
any exercise is good exercise, and I think that needs
to be emphasized because it's also not for like we
shouldn't just be exercising for weight loss. We're exercising for
heart health and for mental health. There's a lot of
reasons and benefit we get from that, and it impacts

(26:58):
our sleep. And so I think the problem comes and
I'll use myself as an example. I love high intensity work,
and if someone said, go do high intensity work every day,
I would say, I will do find more hours to
do it, because that's the challenge you gave me. But
if I went from every day of like I you know,
if I went with your method, Haley, I would be like,
every day, I'm just going to do zone two because

(27:20):
I'm really fucking tired, you know, especially at this phase
in my in my and so it's like I say
that first you have to identify what you need, hire
someone to say like, hey, here's my program.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
But hey, Haley, I'm checking in. I actually don't feel
great today.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
You know, what do you think I'm going to do
zone two today, and then you would say, hey, Abby,
it's Thursday. You know, how are you feeling. You might
not feel great, but let's just do a little like,
you know, just to keep me on task. But it
really comes down to our goals and you hit on recovery,
which it brings back to the nutrition conversation. If you

(27:54):
were a person that's doing high intensity work a lot
and heavy resistance training, and you are doing fasted exercise
and you're underfueling, and you are the person that goes
like I want to do all the things for the benefit,
that's really when you have to optimize nutrition and dial
in like if you are sore for multiple days, if
you are not recovering, if you are fatigued. Those are

(28:16):
the things that I would come back and say, Okay,
let's let's take a closer look. Are we optimizing nutrition before, during,
and or after? How much do you have any planned recovery?
Women do a terrible job of letting ourselves recover. I'm
one of the worst of like why would I recover?
Like I need that time and so. But I think
it goes back to there's so many different approaches, but

(28:39):
it's those times in your body. If you are tired
every day, is it because you're doing too much? Is
it because you're doing too little? Is it because you
you know, Like there's a lot of reasons for that
and making it adaptable. There are a lot of ways
to get to the same point. And the other thing,
like I totally see as a luxury for me and
for you guys, is that we've trained for a long
period of time, Like I have trained. I was a

(29:01):
former colleated athlete. It's part of my day to day.
I'm unhappy and not a nice person when I don't exercise,
which just means that like I actually can afford, Like
if I don't exercise for a few days, it doesn't
impact me because I have this very chronic base of training.
And I think that's also important to realize, like your

(29:21):
training age also impacts that, like more motivation for women
to prioritize fitness of like that little bit every day
hugely makes a difference for our long term health and
quality of life. It doesn't have to be massive volume.
It could be those thirty minutes every day or most
days of the week, and it doesn't have to be
that high intensity exercise every day.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
So all right, let's move on to some supplements. And
I know you were just you have done a lot,
You're on a lot of the creating journals and have
done a bunch of podcasts on it for other pods
cast hosts as well. So if we look at creatine,

(30:04):
I think most women now it's really rare that I
ever hear of somebody say what's creatine? Or I'm not
taking most women are invested in the conversation now. But
what do we get from creatine outside of the recovery
and the you know, muscle and fitness aspects. What other

(30:26):
benefits are there for women specifically, and does that change
as we age.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
It's a really good question.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
I also kind of think it's funny that it's such
a big topic now because creatine has been around for
a long time. And yeah, I was recently in Germany
presenting on some creatine and my very first scientific publication
back in two thousand and seven was creatine in Women.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
No way, Wow, wow, No, we didn't control our mental cycle.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
But it's just funny to see and it's right of like, Okay, yes,
women need some support too. But I will be the
first to tell you creating would not be like the
first supplement I would tell a mid life woman to take,
and I can really yeah, I mean I can tell
you which one I would, But let's answer your creating question.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yes, but then I want to know that answer too.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
I it does have potential for benefit. Well, everyone in
their midlife female phase see a benefit. Maybe not, but
it's one of those things that has such a low
risk profile of it in a high potential of If
you take five grams of creating a day in your

(31:41):
mid life, you might see some benefits on your exercise,
you might see benefits on your recovery. At that low dose,
it'll take three to four weeks to see any effect,
which is where if you take a higher dose, like
the loading dose twenty grams a day in five four
gram doses, sorry, four five gram doses, five grams four
times a day, you might see those effects faster. And

(32:03):
sometimes that's what I recommend of. Hey, women, if you
want to see if this works, go take twenty grams
for a week. Do you see any difference? If not, okay,
well maybe give it a try. Are there any negative
side effects? Like some of the impacts that I think
our beneficial do. Take a little bit longer. Like bone,
a woman is really not going to see an impact
on bone. And the only really effect we see with

(32:25):
bone is when you combine it with resistance training. And
so unless you're getting repeat bone mineral density scans, it
still takes you know, at least a whole year to
make new bone.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Same thing with muscle.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
It's not like creatine is going to make you massively
strong and a lot more muscle rapidly.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
It's kind of that overtime.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
To me, some of the interesting benefits come more from
the brain side. And I'll tell you the science is
still growing here, but there's enough growing literature that I
feel like that's where one I you know, we are
our own researcher or kind of subject. So the brain
benefit related to cognition and really shows is if you

(33:11):
are kind of cognitively impacted negatively, if you have some
sort of cognitive dysfunction, you might see a benefit. And
so then you know, you think about most midlife women,
they usually aren't sleeping great. There's massive changes in the
brain related to you know, thought process, and then we
see changes things of anxiety and depression. There's growing data

(33:33):
that shows creatine with antidepressants helps that have an impact.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
And so it's one of those things of like, I
don't know about you.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Ladies, but at this pase in my life, I will
do anything to help my brain work like it used to.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Well except for sleep more right, who has time for that?

Speaker 4 (33:52):
And so that what I see is that like slightly
higher dose that ten grams a day may have some
benefit on brain and that I like to call it
like that neural drive.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
And what's the risk? Will it work?

Speaker 4 (34:07):
We need stronger data, definitely, but it has a pretty
low risk. And then if you have women that are
eating mostly plants, that they will see an even better benefit.
Or a woman that isn't sleeping who has an infant
is up repeatedly throughout the day or out out the night.
So there's a lot of potential benefit that would also

(34:28):
work for men. But the environment is slightly different for women.
Even some of the physiological brain changes, and like I said,
the being up all night, those things would maybe be
more advantageous.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
So if you're loading at twenty grams a there's not
any negative. Well, the side effect could be you could
retain more water, which women freak out about. But what
is the realistic weight gain when you start creating.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
So if you are loading, and this is pretty consistent
in the little of most women don't gain a lot
of weight. We're talking about a half a pound to
a pound. And I actually think if you gain weight,
it actually tells me that you are more of a responder.
It's a good thing because really it's pulling water into
the cell. And I mean, you guys know this, but

(35:18):
when you pull water into the cell, your muscles also
look good. But you may gain a little bit of
water weight, But to me, that actually says it's it's
saturating your intramuscular creatine stores and that usually dissipates within
a few days after because things like kind of settle
and then we see we have seen if that happens

(35:39):
around the menstal cycle, Like if you are someone that's
still menstruating that luteal phase, we tend to have a
little bit more fluid extracellularly, and creatine can maybe you
might see even a bigger impact on that cellular hydration
fluid shift.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Again, which is not a bad thing.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Now, if you are going to an event and you
don't want to, I don't know, if you've never taken
creatine and you don't want to be a little extra
puffy or you know those days we feel like a
little soft. I wouldn't tell you to creatine load right
before you have to go look great in a in
a tight dress because you just don't know. But the

(36:18):
other otherwise, like normally it will be pretty minimal. But
there are responders and non responders. That's why I put
that qualification. If some woman say I have never had
an effect, and other women are like, oh my gosh,
I feel so swollen, I'm thinking, well, what did you
take it with? Or good for you? That means your
muscle is very much responding. And so I think those

(36:40):
are the things of like, well, what do you want
it to do like? Or what a fact you know?
Do you want to have that response? Is it not
something you like and you don't want the benefits? Well great,
well then don't take it.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
So what is the supplement?

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (36:54):
I mean my first one would probably be like a
no Omega three, yes, because I'm doing that. It's impossible
to get Omega three in our diet consistently and it
has so much benefit on every cell in the body,
So you know most I mean, I want my hair
skin and ailsa look good, trying to keep up with
you ladies, and so Omega three would be number one,

(37:16):
and then I mean vitamin D would be a close second. Again,
really hard to get in the diet and very much
related to muscle and bone and recovery and so many things.
And then I would say number three would be magnesium,
especially in our midlife, of like our body just doesn't
we're not able to utilize it the same and it's

(37:36):
related to a lot of cellular function, and so those
would be my top three. I think creatine definitely has
a role, but probably wouldn't be the first thing I
would start with.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I feel so good right now because I'm taking all
of those things, and that's actually the only thing I
feel like I could really benefit from a multi vitamin
right now, because my life is so busy that half
of the time I'm waking up in the middle of
the night hungry because I'm not not trying to eat.
Over the last couple months, I'm just so busy that

(38:11):
i don't even have time to sit down. And it's terrible.
That's not a badge of honor by any means. It
just is what it is. And you know, there's certain
phases where this happens in life, and we do have
these periods of time that are just really hard, and
so supplements like this can can really help. And I

(38:32):
don't eat enough fish. I grew up, you know, in Utah,
and I think my family grew up with like the
frozen fish sticks at the supermarket. So I never I
was like fish gross. And then it wasn't until I
started traveling coastal, you know, to one side or the other,
where I realized that fish was actually good. So an
omega three is a completely non negotiable for me. So

(38:59):
as the new if we go back to, you know,
impacts of sleep and recovery on the brain in perimenopause. Now,
I just learned that the brain is changing in perimenopause,
which I didn't know. I thought, okay, yeah, there's these
changes you know, post menopause, but the brain is changing

(39:21):
even during our menstrual cycle, is that right?

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (39:25):
So during And I am not a brain researcher, so
hopefully you have a brain expert, but I will say
there are changes across the men's cycle, absolutely, and then
we see pretty.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Big changes in perimenopause.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
But the bright side is those tend to then level
off and come back to normal into postmenopause, which then
even speaks to the need and the clearing of the
bullshit for this type, this phase in life of we
actually really need to help women in this phase because
it is so variable and there's greater light ahead. We

(40:03):
actually have some good data in menopause or into post menopause,
but it's that midlife that we still don't have a
lot of questions answered.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, and how.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
Does the brain change? I don't, you know, like we
could get into some of that, but it is I
would make a broad statement that many women have symptoms
related to anxiety, depression, sleep, so many things that they
think are related to their life, which obviously impacts it,

(40:35):
but are largely related to the hormonal changes that are
happening with just that rapid fluctuation. And I say that
like those you should go ask a professional and say
here's how I'm feeling. If they say, you know, oh,
it's your mental health, only like say, like, well there's
you know, no one asks you about your menstrual cycle status.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
It's like getting more insight.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, what about brain fog and memory?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Yeah, I mean brain fog is the term everyone uses,
and I'm sure. I mean, like postpartum is the very
similar brain fog, and if you can imagine the changes
in hormones, it's a very similar brain fog that happens
in perimenopause. Like how do you define brain fog? I mean,
I think we all experience it slightly different, but it
goes back like actually, I think when we talk about supplements,

(41:21):
when we talk about things like creatine but also nootropics
that I see is a big growing field because of
the brain fog. And I don't think this is just
specific to women. I think it's also on the heels
of COVID. The best way I like to describe it,
like in my brain, I have probably twenty tabs open,
and I used to be able to like do a

(41:42):
tab and close it, and now I'm like.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Oh, there's a tab.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
No, I got to do that tab and I forgot
to go back to that tab and that piece of
like yeah, then where do I go? My brain is
very foggy. How do I actually execute that mental task?
And there are some dietary supplements.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
That help with that.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
That is such a good way of explaining it, like
putting a name to it okay, And what is the
what are the upple months that help the most with that?

Speaker 7 (42:10):
In your opinion, well, yeah, we'll sleep, But in reality
I'm a total hypocrite because I just don't have time
to sleep in my body.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
I wake up at like four four thirty, I'm ready
to go like that is, and so sleep helps the most.
But then like I personally like there's some good data
around Cytacolin, fostatitle, Seene, Rodiola, Shashandra Extract. There's a few

(42:43):
that I feel like is one of those things.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Is there great data?

Speaker 4 (42:47):
No, which is why I hesitate, like this is my
own personal but there's a blend of things, or like
trying things is pretty low risk for the impact that
it has for me. Of like the ability to then
execute to task is really helpful with a kind of
a minimal risk. So it probably won't help for everyone.
But for instance, a lot of people reach for caffeine.

(43:08):
I always say, caffeine makes my squirrels in my brain
just run faster. I need something to calm them down.
And so that's where some of the nootropics come in.
I'm sure I missed some, but those are like the
top of my list right.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Now, that's great. So if we look at okay, fitness mistakes. Now,
what we've said there's everything can apply to anyone. But
are there certain things that women can do that will
hinder progress with strength, you know, getting more strength or

(43:43):
changing body composition if we if we circle back to
that conversation.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Yes, so there's always a caveat of like, some people's
bodies are more resilient than mine. But I think the
number one thing that I see with most women is
the fasting and the underfuelling. And so I would say,
can people do that? Maybe I would say it would

(44:08):
be harder based on the effects and some of the
data that we have of just kind of fasting chronically.
That doesn't mean like a single point in time, but
underfueling will hinder strength, recovery, soreness, and body composition.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Obviously there's some.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Caveats to that of but I would say those would
be that would be a key thing.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
And then the other thing that I think is a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Self explanatory, but is if you go really hard and
then you have to take the time off because you're
so under recovered, meaning having that consistency is a really
good starting point and that's different for everyone of like
what is it that you can do that can fit
it in?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
And maybe like I feel like we.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Give women such a hard time of you don't have
to do high intensity training and you don't have to
do it one way. Just start and then if you're
not seeing changes, you know, adapt, but what works for you,
like get that into your habit and your daily routine
is really like the best starting point.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, And that's what I see the most is it's like, okay,
take out everything that or people may see somebody like
you who was a you know, a collegiate athlete.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Former, I do it all. I'm just trying to keep
up once at a time.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Or look at like okay, you'd be lost, well Hayley,
what are you doing? And like consistency and then duration
in the exercise and then effort intensity, like you can't
do all of it at once because if you can't recover,
and you know the women that like to you know,
I feel smashed. I couldn't move for two days. You
just lost two days in the gymp that you could

(45:50):
have done. I mean, and sometimes that will happen when
you're new at something.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
But the goal is.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Always to just get enough adaptation where you're improving, but
you're not underfueling, undercovering, you know, getting And that's where
we see this, I guess, lapse in performance and or
muscle overall muscle gain in a female that's looking at

(46:15):
why do I not change? Why am I not changing?
There's non responders, and then there's also what is happening
in your life that maybe is is not helping you.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
Yeah, and to me, this is a big debate right
now too, of like I don't even know what the
debate is. The takeaway about female muscle and how it responds.
And what we know is that any muscle real respond
if you give it an appropriate stimulus, and the stimulus
varies based on the person, the individual, what's the stimulus

(46:48):
it's used to. There's no reason for us to believe
that women can't respond in a similar way to men.
But what we don't know is, like we absolutely know
estrogen receptor impact muscle tissue and the malleability of it.
Do we know specifically how volume and load intensity and

(47:08):
how it compares to men? I would say, who the
fuck cares, because like it's.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Not about male female.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
My view is, well, okay, can we take all the
literature we know about training, volume, intensity, et cetera, and
can we apply it the same to women?

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Sure? Maybe, but what about the joint pain? What about the.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
You know, some other like components to it. And I
think that's where we need a little bit more information.
I and we are about to start a study looking
at resistance training in perimenopause with creatine, and I don't
expect the changes in the muscle to be dramatically different
than what we would see in a male. But I

(47:49):
do anticipate like nutrition to be a bigger conversation. We've
done interventions in women before that we haven't seen an
increase in muscle, and it's not because these stimulus, it's
because they're underfueling.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Like we need to capture the nutrition.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
And I think it's not just saying like this conversation
of lift heavy weights, well, what's heavy to me might
be different for you, And we also want to make
sure like you can still sometimes I'm lifting the exact
same weight that I did two years ago, and I'm
still my muscle is still fine. Like the lifting heavy
just needs to be relative, and that messaging. I would

(48:28):
love to get to a point of what is the
minimal stimulus that we need for a female muscle, and
I'm not sure it's any different than a male and
I mean, you know, like relative and I think those
are We just need more clarity. The data currently doesn't exist.
But that doesn't mean to say like it's not different,
let's explore more. It's more research questions.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
So if we're looking at a female that's brand new
to the weights room, because there's a lot of women
that are brand new, and one of the biggest issues
I see is that there's there's not a good description
for training age and ability level like beginner, intermediate, advance,
because women will again come into me and they're saying, Okay,

(49:10):
I'm going to buy your advanced strength training and I'm like,
do you know what that intels? Are you comfortable with
the barbell and really low reps? Because if you're doing
group fitness class down the street, no shame not saying
not throwing any shade out at all, that is not
if that class is advanced, that doesn't mean you're advanced

(49:30):
under really heavy load. So there's not good descriptions because
everyone is just like, well, I'm advanced in this, so
I must be advanced under strength and load. But if
someone's coming into the weights room that's fairly new. What
is realistic? Is there a realistic guideline of how much
muscle in a year that someone could build if they

(49:52):
were following a good program.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
Oh, that is a really good question. I'm not sure
there's any year long studies. A lot of times the
are bit shorter. I think from a scientific perspective, something
to think about is, if you've never lifted weights, the
first six weeks is on neuromuscular changes, which is really important,
meaning that someone will get really strong, really fast.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
That's not muscle, that's not.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Hypertrophy like new muscle, that's just your ability of your
brain to recruit more of your muscles and you get stronger.
So one, don't be afraid if you are something gets easy,
like gradually increasing that load is normal. It's because your
body's neuromuscular system is adapting.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
And then usually after that first six.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
Weeks or so, and sometimes a little bit earlier, but
then you start to see some of those the physiological.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Changes to the muscle.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
How much to expect, Oh gosh, they're so everyone's so
different on their ability to put on muscle.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
But it's not a massive amount. That's the frustrating part.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
It's really easy to put on fat, it's not easy
to put on muscle. But once you have muscle, well,
it's not as hard to maintain. And I think that's
also the conversation of when we are talking about resistance training,
a lot of it is just maintaining the muscle we
have preventing the loss, and that can happen from a
lot of different ways of you know, it could be

(51:15):
higher volume, slightly lower load. It doesn't have to be
always ridiculously heavy. So I'm avoiding your question because I
don't have an answer, but I would say, like, you know,
a few pounds of muscle depending on the way the
program is designed.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, well, I mean and if you look at the
main maintenance of it. I mean for myself as an example,
I I was deadlifting twenty five percent more two years ago,
and my back is like, I don't this doesn't work
for me anymore. So I'm like, cool, Okay, I'll push
on areas that I can push that are safe a
leg press, a leg extension, a hip thrust, but I

(51:58):
don't have to deadlift the same. I'm deadlifting less over
two years, but I have the same amount of muscle mass.
So that's the thing is it gets to a point
where it's like you have to be your own guide
of a responsibly build into a program regardless of whatever
you hear or whatever you want to do right now.

(52:20):
You don't get to go from A to Z in
three months. Doesn't work. Ego's got to come out of it.
And I know that's more. There's a lot of men
with egos, but there's also ego in females that it's like, well,
now can do I can do that, no problem, And
it all comes at a risk. It does have to
be properly formulated and built up over time. If we

(52:45):
look at the bone, and we know that bone takes
about a year to see changes, which is why no
one's getting dexas every three months or you know, I'll
have people come in and be like, Okay, well I'm
going to get a DEXA every three months, and I'm like,
even for muscle, you're not going to see that much
of a difference. So you know, we want that year.
But for osteo process, for someone that is kind of

(53:05):
falling into that osteopenic realm, how important and what do
we if we know that it takes a year to
really change bone, is that a year of How do
you feel about the jumping jump? Jumping is kind of
we have jumping and we have heavy lifting, and jumping
is getting more spotlight right now. I mean, jumping has

(53:28):
always been around, but it's really getting in the hot
seat right now. So do you have any research or
how do you feel about if somebody were to come
in that's osteopeniic, what would you do to help them
over maybe a year's time where they could improve something?

Speaker 4 (53:45):
Yeah, I mean when you're talking, I think one of
the worst parts of the environment right now is women
are feeling like they have to not have an ego,
but like, oh, I do do heavy weights, and it
puts them at greater risk for injury, not intentionally meaning
that heavy is all relative.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
We need to start with where you're at.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Sometimes that is body weight, sometimes it's bands, and then
just knowing that changes. So the injury piece I absolutely
worry about of this messaging of yeah, you have to
do heavy and that's it, and you have to also
go jump. Here's the thing of like the jumping and
the heavy lifting, you can also at this phase in life.

(54:25):
We're not trying to increase bone. That's great if you can,
but we're really trying to prevent a loss. And by
preventing the loss, you just need to stimulate the muscle
and the skeleton. And so that's all relative. If you
have someone that has done nothing, please don't go jump
like that will result in an injury. And there are

(54:46):
a lot of women that I know that actually their
bones hurt because that's how like osteo like, their bones
are degrading, and so you don't go start them with
a massive heavy lifting jumping protocol.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
And so it's all relative.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
You've got to start slow and just realize that any
stimulus is good stimulus. And we're not trying to massively
impact increased bone. We're trying to maintain it for longevity.
And so you know, is jumping great, Like I will
tell you I'm the worst jumper, and I wish I
were the worst, but it hurts my knees, like I

(55:23):
should do a bit more jumping, and I'm someone that
trains pretty chronically, but it's still not something you want
to do. Like you have to weigh that risk to benefit, right,
So so even for someone like me, if I started to
do some pliometrics, I probably would hire someone to say, hey,
can you like start me off so that I'm not
doing that and I know what to do, you know,
So I'm saying that of like, we don't have to

(55:44):
do it all if you don't know. That's why we
have professionals like yourselves. And we do want to prevent
injury because I know you guys have had injuries and
that's the worst and the older we get, the longer
it takes to recover. And so we want to make
sure we're helping women them in a space that's actually
building their bodies up. And jumping is not the place
I would start.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, there's definitely a build up there and it comes
with a lot of preliminary jumping drills of you know,
hopping and pogos and different things like that, because the
tenon and the ligaments are just because you jumped when
you were twenty doesn't mean that you just get to
get go right into two box jumps super important as well. Again,
the overall theme, regardless of anything that we've talked about today,

(56:30):
rep ranges cardio, nutrition, all of these things. It all
is so individual, but there is a buy in process
for anything, and really there's no race to the finish.
Like if we're in this for life and we want
to stay injury free, which is already really hard post

(56:52):
menopause without estrogen as an anti inflammatory. I mean, we're
already there's things that are just and just from age
and wear. Our joints hurt.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I don't know anyone that. Again, maybe a very few
percentage of people that don't have any niggles happening, there's
always some. So it's like there's build up, do what
you can do, something with resistance, do something with cardio,
and what are you what's your overall goal? Because if

(57:24):
you don't really care about body composition, most women do.
But if you don't, does it really matter what you're
doing as long as you're lifting some weight and doing
some cardio.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Yeah, And I think the other thing is we I'll
put myself. I feel like we've all made it more confusing,
not more confusing.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
On purpose.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
The goal of you and what you're doing is to
make it more simple. But I think all of these
voices have made it so hard for women to say, well,
what do we do? And I would say, like, if anything,
take this as like putting ownership back in yourself, Like
you have the ability to do what's best for you
and take the time to do that and prioritize yourself.

(58:03):
And I continue to say that, and I also remind
myself of that of like how do we continue to
prioritize our health, our training, our nutrition and if something
is not responding the way we think it should or
we're unhappy about, like, don't just be quiet about it.
I think that's where like do you hire someone to
help you do? I mean, women are so smart, Like

(58:25):
go look at some of your own literature and try
those things out.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Like I think it's really giving us we.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Have to take care of ourselves because one our health,
most of the health practitioners don't know how, and our
bodies will respond like we mine will respond differently than yours.
And so it's really saying like hear the voices, but
know that they might land differently than you. That doesn't
make me you're wrong, and it doesn't mean that they're wrong.

(58:52):
It means like everyone's trying, in my mind, doing their
best to try and bring light to the space, but
it's making it more confusing of like can we start small,
like exercise, try and improve your health. Like one thing
we don't talk a lot about is eating more fruits
and vegetables, like fueling throughout the day. Yes, everyone knows
to eat protein, but like there's a lot of other

(59:14):
things of like just prioritize eating. I'll remind myself of that, Haley.
It sounds like you too, you know, like and then
and do some movement, like get some sunshine if you
need to, Like I don't know. I think we need
to start small and then build up. And then goes
back to what you said, what are your goals? Your
body is amazing. I mean that's why I'm in this space.
Like it grows humans and then it goes back and

(59:36):
it like you want to build muscle, you can train
it to do that. If you don't care and you
gain some fat, it does that and then you can
move back.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
So like this just knowing like.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Your physiology, like your body is so cool and I
love to play around with it and sometimes I'm pissed
at it, but.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Then you're like, Okay, I'm going to use the tools
and try it out.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Like life is long, Like let's say it works, Okay,
well I'll tweak it and then we'll do something else.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
What a great reminder. Our bodies early are amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
So cool, especially women. I mean literally like who grows humans.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
It's such a good point.

Speaker 8 (01:00:08):
Wait nobody else Before we go, I have to ask
what are you working on right now that you're excited about?

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
We have?

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
I think last time I told you about this study.
But we have just done some preliminary analyzes. We're looking
at perimenopause, early and late perimenopause a woman as a
follow up, some nutrient timing of protein versus fasted prior
to about of high intensity interval training, looking at energy expenditure,

(01:00:41):
fat metabolism, using some more invasive measures and controlling for
thirty days of hormones to try and get some more
picture of what's happening. And so we have we have
just a handful left to recruit. But I did some
preliminary analyzes and twenty five grams of protein prior to

(01:01:02):
hit in perimenopause.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Is increasing calories.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
We saw about three hundred calories versus one hundred of
exercise alone post exercise and is accelerating like greater fat
oxidation post exercise, no difference during exercise. That makes sense,
and so it seems like such a minor finding. But
for me, we've now shown three times that this approach

(01:01:27):
is impacting some metabolism, which then sets the foundation for
one it's very feasible, Like I know for me, it's
a good reminder that like, yeah, if you want a
little bit of a better benefit, have some protein beforehand.
That's an easy fix. But then what well we're waiting
on some of the analysis is how are those hormones changing?

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
So I'll make a plug.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
Like some of the work that we're doing is looking
at at home hormone devices.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
We've used both.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Anido and UVA, and I found it so helpful, Like
we always kind of had to work out the kink,
so I did it on my own first before we
have everyone do it. And it's so powerful to be
able to see your its urine hormones every day and
how they line up with blood hormones versus a single
point in time, and the variability and how that makes

(01:02:14):
women feel, how it impacts their sleep, and how it
impacts metabolism.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
We're trying to control for all of that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
And then we are starting a study the first with
creatine in perimenopause, but more importantly high intensity resistance training
in perimenopause will have kind of a resistance training only
group to actually get some data of like what would
be an expected lean mass change, does creating benefit in
any way more so? Yeah, so we will start that soon.

(01:02:45):
Research just takes really long time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Okay, sign us up for the next study that you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
I do have this dream of doing a virtual study.
It's just a little bit bigger lift.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
So yeah, well, I've got a heck of a lot
of women that are I know absolutely we can use.
Thank you so much, Abby for your time and for
for who you are in the in the space, and
and this beautiful voice of reason to just kind of
bring everyone everyone has a place at the at the table.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Thanks so much for the opportunity.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Yeah, I feel like so much social media is hard,
so I just stay in my little pocket.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
So thanks for giving.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Us and giving us some light and some real conversations
that we're all just doing our best.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
So thank you, thanks for listening.

Speaker 8 (01:03:38):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Until next time,