Mastering Menopause & Strength Training: Expert Insights with Selene Yeager

(00:00:00) Mastering Menopause & Strength Training: Expert Insights with Selene Yeager
(00:01:33) How Selene got into book publishing and more
(00:18:33) Different perspectives working with experts and in podcasting
(00:24:20) Under eating vs. over eating
(00:44:41) Navigating menopause

In this episode of The Body Pod, we sit down with fitness journalist and endurance athlete Selene Yeager to explore how to thrive during menopause, improve strength training, and navigate the evolving landscape of women’s health. From her collaboration with Dr. Stacy Sims to her insights on hormonal changes, nutrition for women, and the science behind menopause fitness, Selene breaks down the biggest myths and shares practical, science-backed strategies for feeling stronger, more energized, and empowered through every stage of life. Whether you’re an athlete, looking to boost your energy levels, or simply want to understand menopause training, this episode is packed with expert advice and actionable tips to help you master menopause and optimize your health.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara, and welcome
to the body Pod. In this episode of The Body Pod,
we sit down with fitness journalist and endurance athlete Selene
Jaeger to talk all about training, menopause, and navigating the

(00:21):
ever evolving landscape of women's health. From her collaboration with
doctor Stacy Simms to insights on strength training, nutrition, and
the science behind hormonal shifts. Selene breaks down the biggest
myths and shares practical strategies for thriving through every stage
of life. Whether you're an athlete or just looking to

(00:42):
feel stronger and more energized, This conversation is packed with
expert wisdom and real life solutions. Let's get into the show.
Welcome Selene, now to the body Pod. So it's your

(01:03):
turn to be in the hot seat.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I know it's great. I feel like we see a
lot of each other these days, so.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Welcome, and I'm super excited to get your take on
all of these questions. I mean, some of them might
be similar to what you were asking me, but I
want to know, like before we even start and get
into all of the questions, how did you get into
book publishing, author writing, all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I honestly always wanted to be a writer. I
didn't even really know what that meant, Like when I
was in high school. Even my health teacher, when I
would hand in things, she would say, you should consider
being a writer. Have a really good way with words,
and you put things together well, so I thought, And
it was just always something that I wanted to pursue.

(01:57):
But I didn't necessarily want to be a newspaper journalist.
And that's all I really knew at that time. So
I went to college and I thought I'll go pre med.
I don't know exactly what I was thinking, but I
started pre med and then I thought, I don't want
to go to school for eight years, and I pursued
English anatomy and also advertising copywriting of all things. Like

(02:19):
I just started cobbling together this degree. And it's funny, Hayley,
because I use all of it, like I now sort
of sell health and fitness and write and you know,
So it's what I ended up doing. So I got
out of school with this sort of communications degree, with
this scientific background, and I became a science writer. So

(02:40):
I was writing for very sexy publications like Infectious Diseases
and children and you know, like literally, and I thought,
I don't want to do this for the rest of
my life. And then I discovered Roadale Press and they
did prevention, men's health, women's health, bicycling, and I thought,
that's it, like that, That's what I want to be doing.

(03:01):
And I just kept sending them resumes and they kept
rejecting me. And then one day a head hunter that
they had hired found I guess all my resumes and
called me and I got a job there. And that's
how it all started.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Wow. Okay, so you can be a ghost writer m h.
And I mean, like, do you do you do the
editing as well.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm not as much of an editor I have. Well,
writers and editors are very different jobs. I prefer being
the writer. So the writer is the person who takes
all the information gets synthesizes it into a constructor an idea,
and puts it together in whatever language they are looking
for to communicate to the audience that they're looking to communicate.

(03:45):
The editor takes that and finds especially finds what's missing,
what's wrong when it needs you know how to work it.
They work that piece of material. So a good editor
always makes a writer better and I have. I filled
in for a couple of my editors when they were
on maternity leave and stuff, and I thought, this is
such an unsung profession because they don't get bylines, they

(04:06):
don't get any credit, they don't get any of the glory.
My name is on the piece, other people's names are
on books. But the editor is like a good editor
is worth their waiting gold. They make everything so much better.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well, I would be fired day one on either of them. Gods,
please don't make me ever write a book.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I were sure to him.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Well, I became familiar with you from as a lot
of women have, through doctor Stacy Simms and the book
or down next level. Yeah, so how did you connect
with Stacy? Was it through this cycling world or did
that just how did that happen?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Indirectly? Yes, I hadn't actually put it together that way,
but indirectly it was through the cycling world. So I
went out on my own after about three years of
being in i'd a publishing house because I always wanted
to be self employed. So I went out of my
own and I freelanced, and I was always looking for
people to partner with and to do books with. Because
when you're a freelancer, a book is a great gig

(05:11):
because you know you have a check. You know, I
have like a large paid yeah, for a while, so
I was always trying to get some bookwork on top
of my magazine work and all of that kind of stuff.
So I was in my eyes open. But I was
also a USA Cycling coach, and I had a column
in Bicycling Magazine and I wrote for them as a
contributing editor for twenty seven years. So I was very

(05:32):
involved because I was also a bike racer, very involved
in that world, and I would always have to go
every two years to this USA Cycling summit, which I
would dread with the strength of seven sons, because they
the same people would get up there. It was all men,
and they would literally stand up there and say things
like and they would be in charge of the women's group,

(05:53):
and they'd be like, well, not really work with women,
but this is what I think you should do. And
I'm like, you don't work with women, don't care, and
it would just be so frustrating to me. So I
had to go. It was like twenty fourteen, I think,
or twenty twelve was around that time, and I had
to go and get my CECS, and a friend of
mine that I was staying with said, I think you

(06:14):
should go and see my friend, doctor Stacy Simms present.
I think you're going to really enjoy it this time
the conference, It's like okay. So I went and saw
her speak at the summit and she got up on
the stage in front of like largely a male audience
as it was, and talked about menstrual cycles and the
luteal phase and all of these things that I never

(06:36):
had heard anybody ever talk about anywhere, and sex differences.
And she got off that stage and people it was
like the Messiah like people followed her. She went out
the door and there's a line, like super deep line,
and I thought this. I immediately thought she needs a book,
like we need I need to get this out. So
I stood in the line and I said, Hi, I'm

(06:58):
Selene Jaeger. Blah blah blah. You need a book and
I can help you get it done. And she literally said, cool,
let's do it. And two weeks later, I was on
a plane. I'm I getting and I'm flying out to Fairfax.
And you know, at the time, she was developing her
drink mixes all that, and so I'm doing He'll repeats
up Mount Tam and I'm ducking behind dumpsters and peen

(07:20):
on sticks to like show her if I'm losing protein.
You know, the whole the whole thing. It was so funny.
But yeah, that was the start of it.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, this is so funny about Stacy because I feel
like that's how I got my in with her.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Two.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
I was just hey, you want to do that?

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Cool? Sure, yeah, neat, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Wow, that's amazing. Okay, So when you were writing these
well let's start with Roar. So when you were when
you were kind of around that time because you just
had you guys just relaunched a new, updated version, like.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, it came out in twenty sixteen, so you know
that's a long time in science. So after we did
Next Level, or actually mean, while we were doing it,
I was talking to the publisher saying, you know, we
really should be because people once Next Level came out,
a lot of people started buying Roar again, and I thought,

(08:20):
we need to update this book. So we updated it.
Is that last year time is a funny thing.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
I was going to say a year in the last
year year and a half. Okay, So what were the
biggest differences in the science world that you felt like
you had to update this.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
That's a good question, and I feel like I did
that so long ago. But the real thing was that
there were just more more recent studies that were done
on women specifically to include in that project, right, and
really talking about there weren't even when we wrote that,
people weren't worrying or rings or whoopstraps or any of

(08:57):
that kind of stuff. There was no tech, so we
would talking more about you know, there's a whole section
on tech, sort of a whole section about how to
track little more in depth nuanced knowledge about how women
can respond or not respond to the luvial phase and
ovulation and all that. So it was really just going
back in and inserting the most recent science, adding stuff

(09:21):
that literally didn't exist when we wrote it the first time,
and just making it a more current book.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, I love that, do you? Okay? So outside of
that you help? What is your role with Feisty?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay? I have the hip Play not Pause podcast and
that has been going on since twenty twenty and it's
just a place where I talk about how to adjust
your training and your nutrition and your mindset with your
changing physiology during this time of life, so you can
still perform because mainstream menopause advice really does not work

(09:56):
well for active athletic women because they just say you
should exercise and eat well, and we're like, yeah, okay, great,
you know.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
We're in that.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, So it goes beyond that. And then I am
also the content manager for a Feisty Menopause, which is
the Umbrella brand. So I have a Feisty forty plus
newsletter that goes it's pretty much it's not just menopause,
but it's sort of anything masters level women, and I
create anything under that brand that has to do with

(10:24):
women in this demographic.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Okay, so the hit Play not Pause podcast, I mean,
of course, any any female can listen to that is
geared more towards the endurance athletic female.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Your strength. It's it is geared towards women who are
purposely active in care. It's kind of how I put it, like,
because sometimes people get turned off by the word athlete.
They don't self dot even people I talk to people
all the time. They're like, well, yeah, I do triathlons
and I do this, but I'm not really an athlete.
I'm like, yeah, you kind of are, but they just aren't.

(11:00):
They just don't identify that way. And I one hundred
percent understand that. But it's anybody who even if they're
on their peloton five days a week or whatever, they
still feel the same effects. Right, They're still going through
it and they're still maybe not enjoying their peloton rides anymore,
or maybe they're at CrossFit and they don't know what
body's going to show up and it's a drag. So
it's really just helping people who are active and like

(11:23):
being active continue to feel good in their bodies as
their bodies are going through this really big transition.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Okay, so what are the most common questions that you
get as you are doing your podcast? What were the
most popular topics? Way the common questions.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, the weight issue is by and large the
biggest thing that comes up. It's body composition changes. Not
just wait, I shouldn't just say wait, it's it is
body composition changes. It is the where did my muscles go?
Where did this fat game come from? Whereas my power?
You know that kind of thing. Is it is, by

(12:04):
and large, you know, the largest topic that comes up
in this and I think that it it hits everybody.
I believe it lands differently, if not harder, for this
population because they're so accustomed to work in outcome out,
you know, like I do this work, and this is

(12:24):
what happens. And when all of a sudden you're doing
this work and following the same same training peaks, plan,
the same nutrition, all the things that have been working
one plus one, E plus two, and all of a sudden,
it's minus five. It's very disorienting.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
So along with these hormonal changes, do you think that
then there is a need to train women differently?

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I mean and men or are women in the oh?
I think there's a need. Yes. I let me breaface
this by saying, I, of course came up not training
any differently than men. Right. I was in a very
male dominated sport. I was quite successful. However, once I

(13:12):
met Stacey and started learning more, a lot of dots
got connected. There were things that I would experience. I
would be on my bike and I would not be
able to I would just overheat right away, you know.
I would be racing and it would be certain times
that I would just like, I would not be able
to thermal regulate, I'd be overheating or other my power

(13:33):
didn't feel right, and I never until she had me
track and I was like, oh, it's always sort of
at the same time of my cycle. And then I learned.
And sometimes it's just simple things like I would learn
to just really get on top of my hydration. I
would use like pre load products just to make sure
I was super hydrated going in. These things, little things,
but it makes a huge difference when you're racing your

(13:54):
bike for four hours, you know, when you're doing these
kind of things, that kind of something's a huge difference.
So I don't know that I necessarily would have cycle
sinced or done things like that, but I would have
been more in tune to my cycle, and I would
have been more in tune to how it impacted me
and how to work with that, so I could just
keep performing and not be flumoxed every twenty five days,

(14:15):
you know, because I'd never tracked, I was like, what
is happening? So I don't think people need to. I
think that you can take this idea of training differently
for a women, like over the top, and I think
you see some of that, you know on online, but
I do think that women, because we are so hormonally driven,

(14:35):
our hormones are so different, we do need a different approach.
We do need somebody who at least understands that you know,
there are times of the month that your joints might
be different, and women at postpartum. I remember like after
I had my daughter, I felt like gumby, I'm like,
I don't know what's happening, might pop a shoulder out,
and I'm not sure what's going on. You need someone
to really understand those things. It's important, and women are

(14:57):
We take a journey with our hormones each month and
over a course of our life, and so I think
it's just important. And I will say one other thing
for people who do like cycle thinking, because I don't
want to just trash on that, because I do think
that the people who do it are are very successful
with it. One of the things that makes it successful
for a lot of people is there following structure and

(15:20):
a sense of periodization, where that where otherwise they were
not doing anything structured. So if you purposely train it
a certain intensity at certain times and then give yourself
rest and then work on technique like that's going to
be successful for you, right, and if it happens to
sync in with your physiology, all the better.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah. And I think there's always in every field we
see this pendulum swing where there's no one paying attention
to this, and now everyone's paying attention to it, and
the magic is usually in the middle of you know,
because you have the pushback right now. Is a lot
of experts that are like, but there's no difference in

(15:58):
the literature, or there's no diff diference for you know,
this specific thing in the literature.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
I have thoughts on that I have. It's very hard
to replicate a lot of this in a laboratory exercise study.
And also women, just because you can hit certain numbers
doesn't mean you feel great while doing it, and it

(16:25):
doesn't mean that you're going to recover well. You know,
there's a lot of nuance to this. Like I was
saying about hydrating or like overheating, there's a lot of
stuff that's just not captured there. So you can say, well,
you hit the same power numbers. Okay, that's one piece
of the puzzle. What was my rpe? How did I
feel that I did it feel harder, did it feel easier?
How did it feel after, you know, there's a lot

(16:45):
of stuff that just isn't captured when you have twenty
women doing a six week study.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, that was that was it right there, because I've
never really thought of it that way. I've seen it
as the pros and the cons that come from these studies,
and uh, I haven't really put it into that light.
So thank you for thank you for sharing that. So
you coach women, do you? You do the podcast, but

(17:15):
do you coach women individually as well?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Not anymore. I used to be a trainer and a
coach individually, and I do not have the bandwidth to
do that. And honestly, the one on one was not
iver mind like, the programming one on one was never
my favorite part of the thing. So I have put
that aside and I work just with my broad brushes
and I let people like yourself go into the individual work.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Okay, So let's talk then about you have from all
of these collaborating lead leading experts that you have written
books with or that you're writing book a book with
right now, where do you see, like, what are the
similarities and what are the differences between Because this is
this is a huge issue where I know we have
talked about this, maybe in your podcast or maybe when

(18:03):
we did our pre podcast that maybe should have been
the podcast that happens all the time where we talk
about this. You know, people will come in and just
be like, but this person said this, this is it
because they said it, and we're like, well, there's always
a realm of everything. So what are the similarities and

(18:25):
differences that you have seen with working with, you know,
different experts, writing a book or even in the podcast world.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
I think broad strokes at least a lot of the
people that I work with, I follow, collaborate with, are
have the same wide guardrails. Let's say it that way.
Are hit the same broad boxes they do. Women should
be resistance training, some of that should be heavy. You

(18:54):
need some form of cardio. What does that look like?
People don't necessarily agree on. That's definitely a point right
now where people are like, oh, zone two or no,
you know, I mean, there's all those arguments how much
protein should you eat? But I think they all sort
of believe in the overarching ideas of those you know

(19:15):
that you need these things. It's the nuance where they
have different ideas and as somebody who has written books
for thirty years now for all different people. You can
find literature to support almost any of those nuances. That's
just true. So people get real, real lost in the weeds.

(19:37):
But I always encourage them, like, just pull back and
look high level what people are saying, and you will
see more similarities than differences. And then what works for
you and you and I talked about that when we
did our show. It's like, you do need to be
an end of one then at some point and try

(19:58):
a couple of hats on which one looks best, which
one fits best, and that might change, you know, it
might change over time with you as you change, And
that's okay. There are many ways up the mountain. I
always say that there are many ways up the mountain.
But on a very broad level, a lot of the
experts are kind of saying the same high level things.

(20:21):
They just have different ideas about the execution within.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Perfection. So I love there's more than one way up
a hill. I always say, there's more than one way
to skin a cat.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Your sounding way, Yes, I mean I would always tell
them look look high level, like what are.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
The main points that you're seeing. You know that these
people are saying that you need and then what do
you need to fit in your life. I've seen people
who upend everything they're doing even though what they're doing
is working, and that makes no sense. So if what
you're doing is working, yea, yay, keep doing it. Do

(21:18):
do not need to change it. This advice is really
there for you. When your physiology starts to change and
I see this a lot, and what you have always
done is like we just talked about, isn't yielding those
same results, then you do have to pull back and think, Okay,
what is happening. I need more stimulation for my muscles.
I need to lift heavier. Maybe I'm drowning in volume.

(21:40):
I don't want to do all that volume. I need
to bring that back and then experiment with that as
you need to for what fits your goals and be
open to trial and error for a while. People do,
and I understand that. I understand they want someone just
to lay out, tell me what to do every day,
Just tell me and you could start there, and if

(22:01):
it's not working for you, then you then you need
to adjust.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's why working with people like yourselves is useful, because
you have somebody to bounce that off of.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, and I mean again, if we pull back because
the nuances and the controversy and debate online between thirty
grands and forty grands, just freaking eat protein at every meal.
It depends on the age, It depends on the the
you know the goal. Are you in a wait fat

(22:32):
loss phase? Are you building muscle? What's your age? Like,
what's your height, what's your weight? All of those Like
everything comes in context. But what I think is it's
like what we always say and nobody wants to majoring
in the minors, like these little minute details that I'm like,
I think it comes and I would love your opinion

(22:54):
as well. For me, I see it as women are
desperate because all of us sudden they don't recognize their bodies.
So they're just like hanging and clinging onto everything to
try to do. And I'm like, if you are just
consistent and you try try this, and if it doesn't work,
and I know, everyone's impatient because they don't like necessarily

(23:15):
what they see. And while I don't always like the
body composition conversation because everyone's like, well, we should be
worried about being strong and independent and all. It's that's true,
but behind that, it's still a hell of a lot
of women that are like, but I want help, and
I don't need to look nineteen, but I want help

(23:37):
because I just want to feel good right now. So
body composition has to be part of the conversation because
it's what at least you just said, it was the
number one thing you get asked. It's by far the
number one thing that I get asked as well, what's
your opinion on that?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
And so one hundred percent true. And I struggle with
this mightily because there are a lot of women in
my group. I am among them, who have struggled with
eating disordered and disordered eating over their lives. And athletes
get a lot of you know, we've come up with
race weight and you can't be fit enough. It's very

(24:14):
very treacherous territory for a lot of women. And I
see more under eating than I see overeating in our population,
quite frankly. And I had doctor Bill Campbell on last
week because I really I wanted everyone to hear. He
is a fat loss researcher who said when my wife
gained weight, I could not help her. And this is
why I'm on this menopause because a lot of women

(24:37):
are resistant and if you look around the planet, women
gain weight all of the world at this time of life,
and some of it is your body protecting you. It is,
It's just it is what it is. Now. That said,
I do think that there is a conversation to be
had and that you can change what you're doing to

(25:02):
optimize your body composition as best you can. While there
are still people who will be resistant to fat loss,
and that we know that's true. And I am very
hesitant to make them feel like failures because they feel
like failures. So it's a really hard I mean, you
know it, it's a really hard place to be.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
It is, and it's you know it. I've never I
always say that there's outliers, and those are the outliers
you're speaking to. I've never had a course that's been
one hundred percent everyone has lost weight. I've never had
all one on one clients where every single person. There
have been a couple where I'm scratching my head and
I'm like, I don't I'm out of tools, Like I'm

(25:46):
out of tools here. And that is where this part
of I mean, bless Bill Campbell, Bless that someone is
that at his level that is a fat loss researcher
is taking into account this menopaust because there are some
that you know, and it's really it's such an emotional
topic that a woman doesn't even want to come into

(26:08):
a course because they're like, well, what's the point. I
just it doesn't like I'm going to fail. Yeah, So
much needed research and more education on this, and I'm
super excited to see where the next decade lies with
what you're learn because holy cow, I mean over the
last decade, we weren't even talking about menopause. No one

(26:29):
was maybe Stacy on that first stage.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, but it is definitely in the conversation now and
and we'll see research on it, and it's much needed.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
What products do you think are helpful and what do
you specifically use and recommend for your clients during this time?

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I mean it really that's a very very individual conversation.
I will say that a lot of people in my
audience maybe you see it too, struggle with joint issues
and that kind of like joint pain, joint health issues.
And they are I will say it, they are a
sponsor of my podcast, and they're a sponsor of our show.

(27:13):
But they are a sponsored because their products worked so
great for me that I couldn't stop talking about them.
There's Joint Health Plus is something that I recommend a
lot in my audience. Has got eggshell membrane and bosuelia
and collagen. And I was having such pain in my
big toes. They were getting rigid. After I did iron Man,
I had like bone spurs and stuff, and they I
went to the doctors and like, well, we can't do

(27:34):
anything with surgery, and I don't really want that. So
I tried a bunch of stuff and some thing's worked okay,
And then I found this product and they stopped. I
was waking up in the middle of the night with pain,
and within two weeks I wasn't waking up anymore. And
now I'm running an ultra in two weeks. So it
is made. It's made huge Joint health Plus from Prevenex.

(27:57):
It has made a huge difference in my life. So
that kind of thing I'll shout from the mountain docks like,
I find it extremely extremely useful. I will say that
there are women are still They'll be on the show
or I'll be talking to them and I hear over
and over they'll say, oh, I don't want to go
on hormone therapy or I gave in and I've decided

(28:18):
to try it, and I'm like, don't this language is
not right. If you are not feeling like yourself and
you have these hormonally driven signs and symptoms like hot
flashes or sleep disturbances or brain all the things brain
FuG even the joint pain. For some people, go and
talk to a menopause and forum practitioner and see about
using some hormone therapy. Please do not be afraid or

(28:42):
hesitant or think that it's some sort of like failure
or there's some trophy at the end of the line
if you get through without it. There's not like it
is a tool that is there for you, and it's
very underutilized.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Still, Yeah, it's I feel like the conversation around hormones
it's spicy as well. Oh boy, so controversial, which I
wish it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
It shouldn't be. There's no need for it to be.
But I think what has happened to your point is
it's this pendulum thing. So women went from being afraid
to use it, and there's still some people in that camp.
And then I hear all these people who are afraid
not to use it, because there's people who make them
feel like they're going to end up in an old
age home and turn to duck if they don't. And
I'm like, that's not really it either, you know. I'm like, again,

(29:27):
there's many ways we can help you, but the reality
is lying in the middle, and it is a very
personalized thing. But the benefits for most women one hundred percent.
Owagh the risks.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Do you how do you feel about testosterone? Now, that's
the one that I feel like is kind of the
darling of the hour where it's getting a lot of press,
it's getting a lot of but it's also the one
that's like, what, we don't have a lot of research
in this, and it's really hard to get curious your

(30:01):
thoughts about. Is this like the you know, the one
that is kind of the shining star of all of
the different hormones that we would take?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, I don't. I don't actually think so. I from
the experience, and as a competitive athlete, I have seen
illicit testosterone use in my day and I've seen you know,
other things. You need pretty high levels to get real

(30:38):
performance gains. And I'm talking from my end of the thing,
like I know, athletes who have permanent voice changes. Their
voices are deep forever because they went high on the testosterone.
I do think that we are going to see it
become more of the accepted cocktail of hormone therapy options
for women. I'll put it that way. Using Davis, who

(31:00):
I had on the show, is doing quite a bit
of research on bone health and muscle health and testosterone
to see where it fits in that, and I think
we do need to include it in the broader conversation
of what women need as opposed to just estradyle and progesterone.
But it's never just one thing, right, There's so many
different hormones. It's never In my opinion, I think what

(31:23):
we're going to see, it's not just estradyle either. Estradyle
is just one form of estrogen, right. There's a number
of them, and we make about three or whatever, you know.
I believe as this research evolves, we are going to
see far more nuanced care and precision medicine around hormones

(31:47):
because everyone's different. We have all had different receptors, you know.
I mean, I've had my hormones checked and they are
blow but I don't have any hot flashes. My bones
are great, my arteries are great. And when I tried
to take something a little higher, I felt naxious and
woozy and not good. So everyone is very different here.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Mm hmm, well, I'm feeling super space cadet every time
I've done a podcast or have my group calls because
the brain like out of nowhere. I'll be talking and
I'm like, sorry, guys, it's gone now. Luckily to this
group of women, everyone gets it. But I'm just like,
what what is happening? That's the biggest symptom that I

(32:28):
see that out of nowhere. I'm just like, I can't
think of a word. I can't think of a word.
I forgot what I was saying.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Have you seen doctor Lisa Musconi's work on this?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Not as much as I need to, because I love
her from the little things I have seen. But now
I'm gonna did she just have a book.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Or has she has? She has a couple of books,
but she has the mens I think it's called the
menopause brain. Yeah, I have it behind me. It's because
she did research. She' like your brain during Harry menopause
physically changes like it physically changes, well, our brains actually
change every mental cycle, which we did, Like who knew that? Like,

(33:07):
there's a little adaptions that goes every mental cycle, but
during perimenopause particularly, it has a change in the volume
and a change in the glucose metabolism, and then it
adjusts and reconfigures and finds other pathways of other energy systems.
It's fascinating. But yeah, we definitely experience it, some women

(33:29):
more than other, but probably about a quarter of women
go through some of that. I have seen in my
group a lot of women if even if they're on
hormone therapy, they find it doesn't always help. You must
be on creatane, right, Hayley, do you like some women
find creatine helps branch chain amino acid. Somebody just told
me they find that that is helping. But it is,

(33:51):
It's real, and there's no one thing that flicks that
lever for everybody. I wish I could tell you there
rose the.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
More information that we find, and here it really is validating.
They're like, Okay, so I'm not crazy, I'm not losing
my mind.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
It's helpful.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Totally, totally, because if you didn't know what was happening,
you would think you were just coming undone at least
like when you know what it is, it takes the
anxiety about it down a little bit because you're like, Okay,
this is a hormonal thing. I'm just gonna, you know,
do what I can and cope as best I can.

(34:31):
It does get better.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
That's what I was gonna ask.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Feel like, So that's part of the mental like shift
in menopause. I feel like there's mental, physical, emotional.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
There's a few mental shifts. I mean, the positive one
is that you lose all those nurturing hormones you know
that like, and you you just step into yourself mar
for lack of a better way to say it, like,
that's one of the big benefits across the board. Women
I talk to on the other side or just like,

(35:08):
this is kind of great. I don't care what anyone
thinks anymore.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Like a amen. This is like two years ago, had
you asked me if somebody were to write something mean
on my social media, I would just be like they
would ruin my day. And now I'm just like I
can't be bothered. Yeah, this is a positive for sure.

(35:32):
That's great. So how do you feel about adaptogens and
did you use them yourself or did you or do you.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
I don't right now because I don't feel like I
need them. Well, I shouldn't say that. Like sometimes in training,
like ashwaganda is also good for training stress, so sometimes
I will bring that in if I'm doing a lot
of heavy training. I used that one and I used
Schandra early on, Like I used the ashwaganda for like
the anxiety and the stress that I was experiencing, and

(36:03):
I felt like it helped quite a bit for that.
And then I use the Sossandra just because Stacey had
recommended it as something when you were talking about the
brain fog. I didn't have a ton of it, so
I thought it was like it did give me a
little bit of a mental lift, but I didn't need
that at that point anymore. You know, I use that
for just a short while. Wow.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay, And do you think that in your opinion? Have
you heard from your community that women can they take
adaptogens and hormone therapy. Yes, that's a question that I
get a lot.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, Yeah, that's fine. The thing that you run into
with adaptogens is thyroid and a lot of women do
have thyroid medication or thyroid issues. That is something that
is usually a contraindication for using.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, okay, So in your groups, we talked about the
number one question or issue being the body composition that
you get asked. But what where is the confusion? Where
are most people confused? Is it about the nutrition? Is

(37:08):
it about the fitness?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Uh, it's about everything. I don't know if there's any
I don't know if there's anyone. I don't know if
there's anyone you know, yeah, because they are already most
of them are already doing something right. So then the
confusion becomes off of the confusion is how how do
I how do I put all these pieces together? Because

(37:31):
they understand that there is this increase need to maintain
that resistance training and if they've never done that, how
do you work it into endurance training? Because those two
things can feel like they're competing with each other sometimes,
and then there's mobility. Where does that? You know? How
do I fit this all into a schedule? So I
think their biggest the biggest confusion that I see is

(37:54):
honestly on the programming side of like what does this
really look like in real life?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
M So, what do you do yourself personally? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Oh yeah, so it kind of it varies a little
bit around around the seasonality of it, because come summertime,
you'll find me on my bike an awful lot. You know.
I ride almost every day, very long on the weekends.
Right now, Like, let's take right now, I'm training for
this thirty k Ultra Trail run which is coming up
on March first, And I did that intentionally to get

(38:27):
through the winter without having to be on my bike
outside like I've always had. When I was rain seen professionally,
I trained outside in the freezing cold on my bike
and I was like done. So I right now I
lift five mornings for four or five mornings a week,
not always heavy, just something just moving my body, you know,
maybe twice a week doing something heavy.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
I do.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
A long run on Saturday, and then during the week
I'll do like one day where I'm doing hills, I'll
do another day while I'm doing some form work like
some Hayden strills, that kind of thing. So I'm doing
pretty much something every day except Monday is always a
rejuvenation day for me.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
I love that. So I need to work on mobility
because I always scrub.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
If I don't include it in my strength training, I
don't do it either. I will like I will never
carve out a special time for mobility. But I have
a do you guys know what a tonal is? I
love it. I love it. So I have been following
Christina Centenarian's programs. She does the strength training for runners,

(39:35):
and she does all those controlled articular rotations. She does mobility,
like three minutes of mobility before and after, and it
is amazing.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
It is.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's the only way I'll do it. If somebody is like,
we're gonna do this, okay, yes we are, and then
but We're not going to do it too long or
I'll stop and then we do our strength and because
I really do feel the difference. But I'm like you,
it's so hard to myself actually do it separately. I
won't do it.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Have you become have you become a better runner or cyclist?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
The older you get?

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Uh No.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
The reason why I asked when I was you were
saying something and it reminded me of a woman that
I worked with years ago, and she was a huge
runner and she loved to cycle. And I remember her saying,
the older I get, the faster runner I am. And
I'm actually a better runner and cyclist now that I'm older.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
How old is older.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Well, I was like twenty one at the time, so.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, how literally get older? I mean I feel like she.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Was maybe forty nine fifty, so.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
She wasn't old.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
But yeah, so let me let me preface that, like
I started, I got I started racing semi professionally on
my mount bike when I was forty, and I raced
pretty much from forty to forty eight or so at
that level, and I felt bionic. I mean I felt like, yes,
I was way stronger than I was when I was
in my twenties or thirty one hundred percent and could

(41:11):
race for days. I was a stage racer. So I
do think women do become we peak later definitely, And yeah,
I wonder if you saw that. Okay, yeah, oh I
definitely see that. And I just said a post about this.
I've been very pleasantly surprised because I'm an on again
and off again runner for sure, but my times are

(41:32):
not really different now. I am going to be fifty
six on Friday, and they're not really different from when
I was thirty six, honestly, like I probably need more recovery,
but like when I they're actually just not that different.
I love that and the strength training helps a ton.
There's no question that that has been a really essential

(41:53):
piece for me to be doing that at this point,
no question.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Do you think that they're room there's room for different
rep ranges for lifting heaven, Yes.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yes, yes, yes I do.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
I do.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I do think. Here's what I think happened, if I
if I can say this, so, I think that when
we were putting out the message to lift heavy shit
and to lift heavier and to get in those loyal
rep ranges, we were saying things that had never hit
women's ears before in a large way, in a mainstream way.

(42:33):
Most women had never heard that I had written for
those shape self, very clear, glamour all of them. We
never told anyone to lift less than six reps ever,
like it was always eight to twelve or you know,
like like it was always eight pound dumbells for one
hundred whatever. So telling women to get into especially to

(42:54):
build strength, and even like endurance athletes never lifted heavy
to build strength. This is all pretty new in all
of these spaces, and it's just an evolution of our
understanding of how strength training works and how you know,
all of that with resistance training and with women. But

(43:15):
it's not like that's all you need to do. You know,
like you can do your your heavier lifting and also
do your especially for accessory lifts. Like I'll do a
heavier lift for say a dead lift and do five
reps or six reps, but then eight to ten of
goblet lunches or something, right, you know. I mean there's

(43:37):
these things can work together, and there's you still want
to like give your muscles variety and a different stimulation,
and they're still foundational work. So that's a long way
of saying yes.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yes, I love it. Okay, So do you run any
groups where you talk about nutrition and fitness for women?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
We have a course called Navigate Menopause and we talk
about all of that. I actually have uh dietician who
is part of that, strength training coach who is part
of that, a hormone endochronology doctor who is part of that,
and we have eight modules where we talk specifically about
all of these things for active women and how they

(44:26):
how they can approach it.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, that's great. And then is that that's something that
you run on your own.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
That's through feisty, that's through feisty media.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Okay, Natural Navigate.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Menopause, Navigate menopause menopause, and is.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
That year round or do you have like open closed
card or is it a tape.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
It's open closed. We do it a couple of times,
two or three times a year. And we actually have
March coming up. We'll do another another session, another session.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Awesome. Okay, So we know that everyone is jumping on
the mental train, for good or for bad. I think
we're both in agreeance that the majority of the experts
that are are getting a lot of the having a
lot of the noise, that are the that are the

(45:20):
ones that everyone's following, have all like good intentions and
kind of the same. There's differences, but there's similarities. But
do you see this space targeting these women? You know,
all of us that are insecure already about this transition
and that products are coming in and you know, magic

(45:40):
supplements or magic workouts or whatever that that are we
in danger of getting. I mean we're always sold to.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
We're there, like diet culture has followed us, right, Like
a lot of the menopause marketing is just diet culture
wrapped up in another bow. I mean, we we've we've
been here before or and it's it's the same and
it's it's the same insidious We're going to prey on
the things that are into you insecure about I hate

(46:10):
the term metal belly. I hate all of that. And
but that's that is what they're going for, skin, fat,
this and that, you know, and it's uh, yeah, there
is a lot of predatory marketing towards women because there's
billions of dollars to be made. And I'll tell you
like one of the I won't name them by name,

(46:30):
but there is a main major company out there that
you know, for hormone therapy specifically that in their marketing
has like do you want to fit in your slim
clothes again? You know, and they're they're talking about hormone
therapy like it's going to help you get into your
slim clothes. And it makes me so angry. It makes
me really really that is yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I actually said something that that there was like a
creatine product that was also going to make you lose
weight or something.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Come on, yeah, I mean, but it's sad.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
I mean I every time I run groups, people will
send in and be like, what do you think of
this commercial?

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I see it all pably not well. And this is
what I tell people, and I say this all the
time in the course and the Navigate Menopause Course. I
say it in the Hit Plane at Pause group. We
got thirty four thousand women in there. I say it
all the time. I say, if there was one thing
that worked that well, one hundred percent of us would
know about it, like everybody would know.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
Such a good point.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
You know, there's there's no secrets. Everybody would know.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, yeah, good point. So I love the statement that
you made on your Instagram that said menopause does not
have to be a full time job. Can you dive
into that?

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, Well, I've had people like literally come up to
me sometimes we have menopause retreats and like no, no where.
We teach heavy lifting and we do all stuff, and
like this woman almost in tears. It's like this feels
like it's going to be a full time job, and
like it doesn't have to be, I promise you. And
it's kind of what we just talked about, Like they

(48:11):
hear all of these components that will help them, and
they feel like there is no way I can do
all this in one day, you know, let alone whatever
do a day after day. And that's when I talk about,
like what I just told you with that mobility. I
do need mobility at this point, like there's no question
I do. But I don't need to do forty five

(48:32):
minutes of it. I'm not exaggerating when I probably say
I do three and a half maybe four, you know,
And it's booke nding my strength training. So that's not
a full time job. That's not like, that's not that
really really that much time. So you can, you can,
you can work this stuff into your life in a
way that is attainable and doable and does not feel overwhelming.

(48:55):
It does not have to be this full time job.
And I tell people like hit the big doms, you know,
like if you're not sleeping, address your sleep, like, get
on top of that, if you're having moot issues or
you're having have like get on top of the stuff
that's really disruptive, get on top of the things that
are going to make a big difference in your life,
and take like one little piece of time. You don't

(49:16):
need it. Nobody needs to do everything.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yeah, well, I mean, and I'm sure because again I
feel like we're the same person in different groups totally,
you guys are. But I really want you know, I
really love my yoga class or I really love my
you know my whatever boot camp, I really love it.

(49:40):
Why are you asking me permission to do it? Do it?
As long as you have a strength like some strength
training in there and some cardio in there. I mean
there's just there's like there's maybe what might be slightly better,
and then there's what you're going to do, and that's
just like good, good.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Enough, And if you love it to it, I mean
that that that's if you love it, there's a reason
you love it. It's doing something for you that is
enhancing your life, and you're probably good at it. Yeah,
so that's what people are attracted to. You wouldn't love
something that made you feel bad or that you weren't
good at, Like, that's not human nature. So yeah, don't

(50:25):
you don't need to give up that kind of stuff?
I say, I hear that too, and it makes me sad,
like that's not that's not the point here.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
You'll be more consistent if you love it one.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Hundred percent. And these people who are the Courtisol conversation,
it just has me cross eyed. And there are people
who are just afraid, they're afraid to exercise, Like what
is happening? Like, yeah, you need courts, you'll be dead.
You want to be dead, You need cortisol. I mean,
you just you need your recovery too, and you probably

(50:58):
need to focus on that more than you did when
you had more hormonal support and you were younger, and
you didn't need to concentrate on that recovery piece as much.
That's really the message, not the we need to demonize cortisol.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Oh my gosh. I mean, it's like when we are
creating barriers for women to know what to do to
even exercise, that they don't want to exercise. This is
a problem.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
It's problem. I agree one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
How do you feel about continuous glucose monitors? Do you
have an opinion? Have you ever used one yourself?

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I do have an opinion. I do think I, as
with many things, I think they can be over sold
and I think that I had a very interesting experience
with glucose monitors. I tried one of the very early ones.
It was called super Sapiens. They were trying to get
into the sports market but having a lot of trouble

(51:54):
because of the FDA and everything. But I tried it
and they had not, And this is still part the problem.
This is still pretty new to you using this technology
in a metabolically healthy population, So we we don't really
know what all the data means yet. Even the experts
don't know what all the data means dead. So I
would I would put this thing on, I would do

(52:16):
a race, I would try these things. They had them
on World Tour pro guys, and I was talking to
their scientists and they were like, we can't believe the numbers,
were saying, we don't know what this means. We didn't
expect them to be having these two hundred, Like the
numbers were out of this world and they were just flummocks.
They were like, I don't know what this means. And
that's like, that's just true. Like nobody had ever put

(52:38):
one on a Tour de France rider and been like,
go see what that looks like. It We just don't know.
So but what I did, what I think is useful
about them, and what I did learn. I did some experiments,
and what I took home more than anything, is that
stress is real and stress really does impact your blood

(52:59):
sugar more. You know, you think about that, you write
about that. But I would be just chilling now, and
then I would get like some email that would rile
me up and you could see it's fight. You can
see its fike, you can see my bulcher go up.
It was really interesting. And I did experiments where I
would have pad tie, right, I would have pad tie

(53:19):
on like a Tuesday night after whatever, and it would
be up. It would spike. But if I was chilling
watching a movie with my family on a Friday night,
it would do nothing like the glucose response to the
same meal can be so different depending on your your
set and setting and state of mind, no question, and

(53:39):
last thing I can say about that, the power of
a walk is unbelievable. I would that that whole idea
that you know, like traditionally people would like take stroll
after dinner whatever, do it. Everybody should stroll after dinner. Yeah,
it is so good for you. It's crazy what it
does to your your bluntugger levels. It's amazing. Yeah, So

(54:00):
it was. It was very like. I wore one for
about six months and I watched things and I did
experiments and I learned, you know, from it. But I
don't think we all need to be walking around with
them all the time. Yeah, Like I don't. I don't
think that's true, and I think that in some people
they're more harmful than they are good because they end
up eating in a very unhealthy way because they don't

(54:21):
want to move the blood sugar and that's not wise,
you know. I mean, you could sit there and just
eat lard all day if you want. You could eat
a stick of butter. You could eat stick of butter
with pork crimes and not like, what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (54:36):
I actually saw someone on Instagram that was eating like butter,
just eating it, and I was like, I'm confused, I'm confused, what.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Are you doing? Okay? And they follow that with a
coffee and I'm sure because that's back too. I'm like,
what's happening?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
You know when you put it in the other.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Hole up here, it works really great. You can just
try that.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Sorry, Yeah, this has.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Gone off the rails.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Okay, before we wrap up? Can get you just got exciting?
How do you talk about any projects that you're working
on or that you know you're excited about. Yeah, anything
you're excited about.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Oh, let's see what I am I excited about? We
have a gravel cycling camp. If I seeing menopause is
partnering with Thompson Tours and we're going to Gerona, Spain
to have a week long gravel writing, which will be
amazing at the end of April, because you know what,
the magic really happens when women get together in person,

(55:48):
Like I find that at the retreats, it's just man.
People really open up and they get clarity and it's
just so wonderful. So I'm really looking forward to that.
And I'm working on a book with doctor Bond to write.
I think I had shared that with you before, called Unbreakable.
She talks a lot about I learned a ton about
bones and how bones communicate with your brain and the

(56:10):
rest of Like we think of them as inert, like
just rods, you know, but they're not. They're living organs
within with our bodies that women really do need to
pay more attention to. Is very very important. So I'm
excited for that one too. So those are the two
things navigate. Menopause is ongoing and all the stuff with
Feisty is always exciting. So yeah, life is good.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Good. Where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Fistymenopause dot Com is the best place because then you
can find the course, the podcast, all the stuff I write,
the blogs is all.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
There and what's your Instagram.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
It's at picty menopause.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yeah, you are amazing, Selene, so thank you, thank you,
thank you for joining us and for your expertise and man,
one day I want I want you to write a
book for me, but I don't know what about.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
That helps you first your workshop that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Thank you so much, Selene. Yeah, thank you. We will
keep catching up with you and listening to the hit
Play not Pause podcast.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Thanks so much, thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
If you enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
Please consider giving us a five star review and sharing
the body Pod with your friends.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Until next time,