December 19, 2024 • 38 mins
In the final episode of Season 2 of The Body Pod, we’re joined by Kristen Holmes, VP of Performance at Whoop, for an insightful conversation on GLP-1 Agonists, the science of circadian rhythm, and the benefits of hot and cold exposure—specifically for females. We dive deep into how these factors impact sleep, recovery, and overall performance, with a special focus on gender-specific health. This episode is packed with valuable insights to help you optimize your well-being and performance. Don’t miss this fascinating discussion with one of the leading experts in the field!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara, and welcome
to the Body Pod. Welcome back, Kristen.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Round two. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We were like getting the vibe and then all of
a sudden it was like, well, we gotta wrap it up.
So I know, I'm so glad, thank you for your time.
I know you're super busy. So we're gonna get right
back into where we left off. Let's start with the
massive topics of hot and cold exposure and kind of
(00:37):
like when we want to use those how they benefit
women or don't benefit women.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Let's start there, all right, Well, I have some you know,
analysis hot off the press with regard to cold, but
I we don't. I don't have the same analysis yet
for sauna. That said, I think sauna is pretty well documented.
We can talk about in general terms. It's it's benefit,
(01:03):
you know, how how beneficial it is I think for
both men and women, and just what the research kind
of tells us to date. But with regard to cold,
we we found some really interesting effects and there the
ice bath and or cold water immersion provides definitely measurable
(01:25):
benefits to recovery and sleep.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
But it's it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Nuanced, so whether or not you are high fit versus
low fit absolutely changes the impact of ice bath or
cold plunge on markers of recovery. So I'll talk about
the differences because it's really fascinating, So maybe I guess
(01:52):
I'll start there. So for folks who are considered low fit,
So basically what we did is we looked at all
of we had, you know, over a million observations, right
of folks who have you know done sample size was
in the tens of thousands, right, So we're talking about
lots of folks who.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Are doing ice bath a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So we had a really nice, robust sample size that
we're able to analyze, and we basically bucketed into we
did kind of just general effects right across the population,
and then we actually bucketed into kind of high fit,
so people who have high cardiovascu for fitness as measured
by their their their age and their resting heart rate
(02:34):
and heart variability. And then we had a bucket of
like the low fit folks, and we use basically kind
of standard measures of like, we basically looked at our
population because we do have a selection bias and that
like generally folks are fitter on our platform, so we're
not like the standard American population necessarily, so we basically
(02:55):
took normative values of folks who are from our population.
So I just wanted to caveat that. But what we
saw is that low fit folks benefit more from ice
bath then high fit folks in the sweet spot to
(03:18):
get the most restorative benefits you want if you're high fit,
So if you're working out, you know more than four
and a half four times per week, two times per
week is when you will see the best benefit on
your markers of recovery. Anything more than two times per week,
(03:40):
we see a negative impacts of recovery. And we're controlling
for things like seep, wake time, and alcohol and light
meals like things that can really impact your resting physiology.
We're controlling for those things. So we have this like
really clean data set, and I will say that I
feel pretty confident that if you're in that high fit category,
I think the protocol is you want to keep your
(04:02):
ice bath to two times per week or your cold
cold water immersion. If you're on the lower fit side,
it seems that any amount of ice bath over the
course of a week is going to actually have a
positive effect, and when we think about the mechanisms that
are involved, it kind of makes sense in that ice
(04:23):
bath is stressful, right, It's like, uh, it's it's a
it's a real you know. You you're basically, you know,
really increasing in the heart rate and it's you know,
it's a sympathetic activity, you know, for the first minute
or so, and then after you kind of ride through
that that sympathetic dominance, you end up actually getting into
that more of a parasympathetic state, you know, in kind
(04:45):
of minute two by minute by minute two. But that said,
it still is overall a pretty stressful event on the system.
And so when you're already when you're basically doing when
you're layering basically more exercise on top of what is
already stressful in the in the in the cold bath,
and you're doing that more than two times a week,
(05:07):
you're basically you're basically creating more stress than your body
is interested in handling. And that comes at a cost,
and we see that cost reflected in your resting physiology.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well done, what's the difference, Oh sorry, what's the difference
between the nuances then of the temperature of the cold water?
Number one? And how quickly we do it after exercise
because we hear like, oh, well you do it after exercise,
and it actually does the opposite of what we want
(05:38):
it to. Or that's what the the you know what
we've been hearing on social media. So where do those
two things define?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, so you know, and this is where I'll have
to kind of combine their research. But we know that
women have different responses than men, and both men and
women respond the same in that in our data, in
that we see positive benefits for people who are kind
of in that lower fit category and are not exercising
(06:08):
as much. It seems that ice bass are going to
they're gonna impact I can get into sleep. But there's
it's they're fully these effects are fully needed by improvements
in sleep consistency and duration. Individuals who are are who
are engaging in ice bass are are maintaining steadier and
(06:29):
longer sleep patterns and which are leading to better markets
of recovery, which is super exciting. We see ice bass
again in this lower fit population, decrease HRV CV, which
is the variability in your hr V day to day,
and that is essentially an indicator of greater autonomic stability.
(06:51):
In this again is partially needed by improved sleep metrics.
But we see this both for men and women. Now again,
once we are you know, for folks who are exercising
more than four times a week and are kind of
in this higher fit category, we see that on non
workout days absolutely impact positively impacts recovery the next day.
(07:14):
But again on workout days, and this goes to your
your your last question, when you're doing when you're working
out really hard and layering ice bath on top of that,
it does not seem to have a positive impact on
marker's discovery. So it seems that we might want to
consider kind of doing ice bath on days.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
That we're actually not exercising.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And we know in the literature in other you know,
studies that have have been have been done, and we're
actually doing a cold water immersion study with UCLA right
now looking at all the mechanisms and it's in a
lot of the performance metrics kind of running alongside. So
we're analyzing those data right now, so we'll be able
to fill in some of this story. But but we
know that there is a potential interference effect when we
(08:03):
are in that when we engage in cold water immersion,
directly after a weightlifting session that can attenuate some of
the games by reducing inflammation. Inflammation inherently after a workout
is not bad, right, Like that is our body's response
to kind of manage the stress, and a lot of
that is actually really adaptive and informdic in nature, and
(08:26):
we want to basically allow that to occur. So when
we're doing an ice bath, we basically kind of mute
all of of that. Those interactions which are are are
maybe not as adaptive as they as they should be.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So fascinating. Yeah, wow, So.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
September you posted, so moving on just just another topic.
So we want to get into some of the studies
that you guys are getting ready to post that we're reviewed.
So you submitted for a peer review back in the September,
did I guess? So I wanted to start with the
study that was on the effects of creatine and the
markers of sleep and recovery.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So here we're big.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Advocates of creatine for many reasons, but there is a
belief out there that there that it can have a
negative impact on sleep. I think a lot of people
have steered clear of it for that for that particular reason.
Can you can you tell us a little bit about
what the data is saying around that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
So actually creating consumption increases sleep consistency, which again I
don't know what the mechanism would be from a circadian perspective,
but I have a theory around this, and if you
I can talk through what that theory is. But basically,
(09:43):
just the data, we see almost a four percent increase
in sleep consistency with creatine consumption.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh, everyone needs that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Sleep consistency is like literally the hard hardest behavior. But
it actually so it seems to be that for some
there are something happening like and it could just be
a part of when I'm taking creatine, I'm just a
little bit more in a routine, I am kind of
thinking more intentionally about my health just generally, usually when
people are are working out, you know, they're also pairing
(10:15):
that with creatine. So there might be just something from
a routine perspective that is, you know, that is unmeasured
obviously in this in this step, but the effects here
are real on sleep consistenty.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, four points is.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Huge passive, right, So you're talking about going from you know,
sixty percent sleep consistenty to sixty four percent, you know,
when you're when you're when you're taking creatine, which is
which is massive, and that actually that increase in sleep
consistency improves recovery by point four five percent, which doesn't
sound like a lot, but again these have compound effects
(10:51):
right over when we're thinking about this time, but generally
creating and consumption is increasing recovery by two percent, So
again it might not sound like a lot, but we
think about just you know, the marginal gains that we're
doing across the things that we're doing across the day. Right,
so if we're taking creatine and we're you know, we're
(11:13):
we're you know, we're doing a nice bath on days
that we're not working out.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Say when we're you know, sablings in actually waked time.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Like it's just all these little things are are adding up,
right and are putting us a position to enhance our
recovery in a way that allows us to kind of
show up tomorrow with with a bit more capacity.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So so it's.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Really interesting because I always I had this theory that
it had to do with sleep efficiency, where if you
were sleeping because maybe people that take it feel like
they sleep a shorter period of time so that but
in that time they're more efficient.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
That was just my gap my theory looking at the information.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
So it's really interesting we're doing we're doing all this
research on kind of what actually is healthy sleep. And
there's no question we've replicated this many time times.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The fitter you are, the less sleep you actually need,
it seems I but but but I think.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's it's and I think it's to your it's it's
to your point, Joscelyn that I think there there's an
association between you know, the movement and the exercise, the
things are happening during the day, and the quality of
your sleep at night. Right, And and we do see
that creating consumption is associated with with actually slightly slight
(12:35):
increase in minutes, but a stistically significant increase in restorative sleep.
So there is something interesting interesting there. So again, the
minutes increase isn't a lot. And I know there's been
some out other literature that has suggested people that take
creating are actually spending less time in bed. But you know,
(12:57):
we see this really interesting relationship between the consistency of
sleep and a bit more time, which usually drives restorative sleep.
So it's not surprising that that relation shows up. And
then there's a linear relationship generally between quality of sleep
and heart rate variability. So in Harry, variability does not
play ball with duration really at all. Unless it's like
(13:22):
really regious kind of short sleep, we will see obviously
decreases and hearty variability. But generally speaking, if it's close
to kind of meeting your generally general like typical kind
of sleep need, we see HRV more highly correlated to
the quality of sleep that you have. So for example,
(13:43):
you can be spending let's say you on averageer spending
seven hours of bed. You're seven hours of bed. Let's
say you had really bad quality sleep, your hearty variability
is going to be is usually related to that is
associated with that lower quality. If you're spending seven hours
in bed, but with high quality, your HRV is usually
going to be higher, which is a good thing. So anyway,
(14:04):
we say this really strong relationship between quality of sleep
and heart rate variability.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Another reason for creatine.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yes, yes, yeah, So another one of the studies that
you had mentioned in that post was about the impact
of late workouts, and I wanted to kind of dig
into that one. So we do have a community of
women who have very high demands in their life and
a lot of times the only time of day they
can work out is in the evening. So do you
have any information on how a late workout impacts and
(14:34):
maybe what is a cutoff time, just like what is
the cutoff time for stopping to eat, to stop walking
out to get good sleep.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
So there's a lot of individual variability with all of
this stuff, right that said, I think it's really clear
that on average, late workouts are going to have a
negative effect on sleep. And I think that's actually probably
more to do with the light exposure during the workout session.
(15:03):
So again, if you're having our if you're exposed to
a lot of artificial lights, So if you're in over
edge gym which are usually you know, really well lit,
and the sun has gone down, you know, maybe it's
eight thirty at night and you're getting flooded by all
this artificial light that is obviously going to delay your melatonin,
(15:24):
the release of melatonin, which is you know, only gets
released in the presence of darkness and is really what
helps kind of facilitate that sleep onset. And I know,
I think we already talked a lot about melatonin. But
so I think that's probably what's going on there. Now,
some individuals are not as sensitive to light, so there's
(15:45):
certainly a spectrum. And and generally as we get older,
we tend to get more sensitive to light. So I
think that's just something to be aware of as well.
But there is a spectrum, and you know, some people
are really sensitive in that it's going to impact there's
circadian rhythms more profoundly versus other folks who are are
less sensitive to light and are going to have less
(16:06):
of an impact. So I do say that there's individual variability.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You know, that said.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Exercise is so damn important, you know, I think if
it means you know, you're cutting down on your sleep
by forty five minutes, it's probably worth it, you know.
I would say, you know, too much lost sleep, you know,
and and kind of accruing too much sleep debt is
(16:36):
is going to come at a cost, right, and you
just have to you have to kind of weigh weigh
the opportunity and cost there. I think with with with
exercise and timing, but I mean generally speaking, you don't
you want to be able to have a beautiful, you know,
restorative nights sleep where you wake up feeling refreshed.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You know, you shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Adults should generally not feel sleepy during the day if
you're getting the sleep that you need during the night.
So I'd kind of just zoom out and just kind
of look at the opportunity and cost and and just
the frequency of having to work out late and what
that really looks like for you.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
So if you have to work out late, where you're
some glasses to the gym.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, we're just the treadmill if you're doing intervals Kardashians,
We're glad. Yeah, you can definitely were like you're just
start a new trend. I know, but I.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Think like a hat late black and glasses, you know,
could be a way to go for sure. Yeah, so
just so you can operate safely in that environment. Of course,
that's that's the most important thing. But but yeah, I
mean we we generally we need to protect our sleep,
like it's really important, you know. And and and I
(17:42):
know that we need to work out too, and you know,
and that's where like I think just being kind of
creative too, Like I mean I have literally, you know,
I've got like a thirty five pound kettlebell in my
office and like I'm just like you know, like I just.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Like I'll like getting it done.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So, you know whatever, Like even if I didn't come
by in an office, like even if I was out there,
you know, in a little pod, like I don't care,
Like I still do goalblet squats like whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I've got a walking treadmill.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, I have one of those as well. And I
used to tell everyone used to tell me you're making
me seasick.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah I know, yeah, like when I'm like slack and email.
But but I think, like, like ladies, like let's just
get creative too, you know, Like so I think on
days where you know what, like I'm just I'm I
just this is this is going to be my workout.
It's just what is what it is. And I don't
(18:39):
even care, like I'm super not self conscious and we
just have to like let let that go and it
just you know, these exercise snacks Like there's actually like
a lot of really good literature around that too, that
this it can be even more effective than a consolidated
forty five minute workout, you know, just like breaking up
like our sedentary behavior with like just these mini moments
(19:00):
of you know, of activation and we can do goblet squads.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
We can do you know, just even like you.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Know, Dumbo, like bicep curls like I you know, I
just think movement is the most important thing. And fitting
it in whenever you can is I think the second
piece to that.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And before we before we move on to the next subject,
you can you cannot bank sleep right, like you can't
be like, oh, I'm going to catch up on the
weekend and I'm going to sleep fourteen hours.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Okay, So two parts of that. So we published a
paper a couple of years ago, three years ago. Now,
we basically looked at sleep behavior prior to lockdown during
COVID and and we looked at kind of your baseline
psychological kind of resilience. And then we looked at after lockdown.
(19:53):
We looked at your sleep behaviors and kind of your
psychological functioning. And what we saw in those data is
that people with more stable sleep wake time were actually
seem to be less affected by COVID from like a
(20:13):
psychological functioning standpoint. So people who had like more aligned
circadian rhythms kind of going into lockdown were more robust
to the dilitarious effects of like all the craziness that
that was happening during COVID. So I think there is
something to be said where there is this notion that
you can build your resilience and create buffer in the system.
(20:38):
So when you are introduced with stress or disruption, I mean,
you can't even think about the holidays as the same
sort of thing or any sort of event where you're
going to be sleeping in a different bed and you're
traveling and you're kind of out of your routine. Well,
if you go into that moment depleted, you're really screwed, right,
you know. Yeah, there is this notion that you can
(20:59):
kind of build a buffer, make yourself like as bulletproof
as possible, so when there is disruption, you're more equipped
to kind of handle those perturbations and not be as affected.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So so there's that, But but you're absolutely right, Haley,
like you, you can't make up for lost sleep, right,
So the genes that you know, we're supposed to turn
on last night but didn't because I didn't sleep, are
not going to just doubly turn on tonight, right, So
you know there is this thing as compensatory kind of
rebound sleep.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The body's really good at you know, if I didn't
get as much rem as I should have last night,
I'm going to make up for it tonight probably, Like
if you're a healthy kind of person, generally that's going
to be happening. But you want to avoid that as
much as possible, because then you kind of get into
this cycle, right where you're always in a situation where
(21:54):
you know, if I'm compensating tonight for like my crappy
sleep last night, like, then the next night's sleep is
probably I'm gonna endep right. Yeah. So so no, and
I will say we are going to publish a paper
on kind of social jet lag where we do see
that the negative impact of a more inconsistent sleepway time
(22:16):
does not outweigh uh short sleep on the weekend, So
if you're getting short sleep during the week, So social
jet lag is essentially variation between your week day sleep
patterns and your weekend sleep patterns in that your weekday
(22:37):
is relatively stable and then the weekend but maybe short sleep,
and then the weekend you're basically long sleep and maybe
irregular sleep. So that's essentially like the feature of social jetlag.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So what we see in the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Data is people with short sleep and it can, but
relatively consistent during the week actually fear better by extending
the sleep on the weekend. So that's the answer to question.
You do want to extend your sleep on the weekend.
But but if you're basically extending it, I would not
(23:13):
go beyond maybe ninety minutes of what you are, you know,
of what your typical kind of If you're like getting
maybe six and a half hours during the week, I'd
probably try to keep it to like eight hours. I
don't know that I sleep for ten hours right like that,
there's going to be a lot of junk sleep in there,
which is probably going to just make you more lethargic.
(23:35):
So yeah, I mean I do whatever I can to
kind of avoid scenarios where I'm in this like social
jet like situation. But I know that a lot of
people that's their life.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But yeah, oh, something that you just can't chinse on.
I mean, it's especially as we get older. It's just
and the sleep. I mean, we talked about that too.
It's it's tricky. It's a fine balance. But need to
prioritize all of those things, like they're just non negotiables.
They should be non negotiables.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I know, it's it's it's so hard, you know, Like
I don't mean I don't want to like sit here
and say it's not it's not hard, but it's like
you just kind of have to slowly design your life
where you're prioritizing your sleep and you're figuring out, you know,
how to think about your workouts and your social commitments,
and you know, creating boundaries at work and you know,
(24:25):
getting your family on board. Like this is this is
not easy, right, Like what it takes it really hard
for us. But but I think I think we know
at this point sleep is non negotiable and and we
need to do everything that we kind.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Of protect it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And to your point, Hayley, like the older we get,
you know, the the more that is just the case,
Like we are just more more sensitive to every everything, Yeah,
everything to alcohol, we're more sensitive to, uh, you know,
to light, and and we're more sensitive to you know,
short sleep and you know, it's it's so we.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Just have to be strategic.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
So there was another study that you'd indicated that was
about the heart and health behavior responses to GLP ones,
and in our community, you know, that's one of the
tools in the toolbox that we share with our community
as women are trying to get healthier, live longer. Is
you know, supplementing with a GLP one when you're trying
to when you have a significant amount of weight to lose.
(25:23):
So I'm curious what kinds of information you guys have
uncovered in that area.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, great question. Let me just pull up. Pull on
one second. Let me I just want to get.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's a heavy question, a heavy topic.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, no, so we got it. Yeah, A long story short.
Exercise attenu weights the negative impact on cardiovascular parameters. So
individuals who exercise versus individuals who don't have less of
an impact, less of a negative impact on their hardy
(26:04):
variability and resting heart rate, which is not surprising, right,
But when you go on these drugs, you will see
your resting heart rate increase, You'll see your hearty variability decrease.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
These are generally like not favorable things to be happening, right,
Like you're putting extra stress on your cardiovascrosystem. And this
is one of the side effects, right, and negative consequences
of GLP one antagonists. But what we see in our
data very clearly is that folks who are exercising a
few times a week actually attenuate this negative impact on
(26:38):
the cardiovascar system. So I think this idea that I know,
this is really cool. So this is in review right now,
so this should be published soon. But I think when
we kind of zoom out and think about the purpose
behind these results in recognizing that there's always going to
be trade offs, right, and that exercise just really matters,
(27:01):
and we can actually mitigate some of the these negative.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Side effects of of GOLP.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
One by incorporating cardiovascuor exercise, right, And I guarantee strength
training is going to just add to this.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So this is basically you.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Know, we're looking at all kind of cardio cardi respiratory
type of fitness. But but yeah, I mean I thought
this is really an exciting finding, one that makes complete sense, right,
But it's just nice to have data.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
These are data that that don't exist currently, so it's nice.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
To and a lot of those lines that a lot
of the studies that are coming out around GLP ones
are around the change in body composition as you as
you lose the weight, and a lot of them are
showing that people are losing a lot of their mass
from muscle and not fat. So you know, pairing these
with a good good nutrition, so eating plenty of protein
(27:58):
as well as strength and cardiovasque their exercise is the
key to success with using them.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
We know that.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
So that's obviously again we call it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
One of the tools in the toolbox to help you
along the way, but you have to do the other things.
The other the other things are non negotiable. So and
that just speaks to it even more, you know, from
the from the heart health perspective as well.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And I think this is also really noteworthy that so
whoop users, So our sample were all Whoop users. So
we looked at basically are the results of our folks.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
In terms of their change in.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
In uh in BMI and the folks on our platform
who are basically using our technology and also these GLP
one and also using GLP one, they lost almost as
much weight than twelve weeks as participants who took five
milligrams over the course of one hundred and seventy six weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Wow, wow, oh my gosh. So we're publishing those data.
But isn't that just wild? Yes, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, you have access to all of the best
information that we're all just like sponges. For I mean,
this is like and and the great thing about podcasts
and social media and this whole era is that everyone
can have can get this knowledge. I mean it's available
(29:35):
from people like you. So yeah, fascinating all of it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
It is really interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
And I think, you know, for for folks who are
going to go down this path, I mean justly to
your point, like.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You you want to retain as.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Much muscle as possible, like that is like that that
is also nons your metabolism. Yeah, I mean that it's
like everything right, Like and when we think about like
the role muscle plays in just our overall health and functioning,
like it is just you know, I think we're learning,
you know, more and more about about the mechanism and
(30:14):
how crucial it is. But but yeah, I mean I
think that like every human on the planet needs to
be on a strength program.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Like it's just.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Say that again, every human on the planet needs to
be on a strength program. And if they don't know
how to lift weights and do not feel confident the gym,
they need to get a coach and they need to
be they need to build their competency inside the weight room.
And there is honestly nothing more important for a woman
(30:47):
like my daughter will leave my house understanding how to program,
how to lift weights, how to you know, she is
going to know everything that she needs to know that
she can have, know that you have for the rest
of her life. Right And and that is honestly like
a responsibility we have as citizens. Like and I know
(31:08):
political and philosophical, but you know, the last thing I
want for myself is to be a burden on society, right,
Like I think that we have a responsibility to take
control of our health. And I and I understand that,
you know, it is it I'm coming from maybe a
place of privilege. I've I've you know, had a lot
(31:29):
of shit in my life like most folks. But but
you know, I have been an athlete my whole life,
So I understand how to program, I understand I do
all these things. But but it's it's it's like the
same thing as like learning how to cook, Like these
are things that you need to develop the skills and
expertise so you can, you know, you can you can
(31:50):
show up in the world with capacity and not not
be vulnerable to illness and to injury.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And you know, there.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
There's just a path to that, you know, and it
starts with like moving heavy stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, that you gave me the chills.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
That sums it up right there.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Amazing, I mean, and it really is like if we
get back to the basics that we're all talking about,
all of this links together. It all links together, every
conversation that we've had with you and the whole help spectrum.
It's nothing fancy. It's just like get it done, prioritize it,
and it doesn't have to look like you know whoever
(32:28):
on Instagram or any social media like it just has
to be something that you're in and out every day.
These are the choices and the behaviors that you now have.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, and there's never been We're at kind of an
unpres unpresentented time in human history and that we have
access to all of this information and you know, it's
just you know, following reputable folks who have the right information,
who are doing the due diligence to make sure that
the information they're transferring is accurate and that promoting safety
(32:59):
and the proper tech technique and you know, so it's
we're at a point in time where you know, this
is it's there for us, right, there's there's kind of
no excuses at this point, right, And and it's like
we just like need to take control of our health.
And when I think about like democracy, and like one
of the biggest threats to democracy is just the sickness
(33:20):
that exists in this in our country in terms of
metabolic dysfunction and cardiovaster disease, and like that's the actual
threat to democracy, right, Like yeah, you can zoom out
for a second. Like so like whoever you are, whatever,
like is important to you, Like this is actually at
the foundation.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Mike drop, Kristin. This is like the second mic drop today.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I had one more.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Question that I wanted to make sure we got in today, Kristen.
And that is on some of a lot of well,
I'll hear sometimes that a lot of the data that's
being gathered on the various is very male centric, or
or as much of the research is being done on men,
or even the data around HRV and some of those
(34:08):
things are more men male centric. Can you do either
debunk that myth or tell us in the right path.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That's like such an important thing to note. And I
think you know, I can speak to Whoop and I'll
say most of our competitors are not doing they don't
have a lab, right, They're not doing their own data collection.
They are buying data and training their algorithms off of
that bought data.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yes, we do not do that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
We have humans coming into our lab, or we go
to Austin we run data collections, or we go to California,
or we go to Ireland, like we're going all of
the world kind of running these data collections, and we
do a lot of it out of our lab. We
ensure diversity of skin tone, We ensure that we have
all sorts of types of different types of humans. So
(34:57):
are the algorithms that are used for a woman are
not the same as the algorithms that are used for
a man.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right there you.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Go all the reasons that we know are true that
we are not the same as guys.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And maybe I need to make a change.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Perhaps perhaps, Yeah, I think that you know, this is
something that we think so deeply about. And we just
had this huge, like research kind of activation moment at
our headquarters where we invited a bunch of women in
our community to kind of come and spend the evening
(35:36):
at wop HQ. I gave a presentation on perimenopause and
menopause and you know, just behaviors that are really health
promoting versus detracting. And so we had this just like
really nice day. We were just like invited our our
members to come and and and kind of hear what
we do to collect data and try to get encourage
them to be a part of our data collections.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So we'd really take we're doing everything.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That we can to make sure that we are collecting
the right data so we can build algorithms that that
makes sense for men, it makes sense for women. I
think also on my side, you know, four years ago,
I made a commitment that I will never engage in
a study where I don't have equal representation both male
(36:22):
and female. So our cold Water Immergion study at UCLA,
I do not. I say no unless you're going to
have the same representation of women as in men.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So you get the forty seven.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Football team, Okay, we're going to get the soccer women's
soccer team. We're gonna get the wom's volleyball team, and
we're gonna get the cross country girls.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
So we're gonna have on each side. So I'm like,
you know, I'm of and that's what it takes. That
is what it takes.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And we have to, like, we have to just say
this is actually how it's gonna roll. And you know
you want us to be involved, you want this data,
then you know you have to we are going to
commit to making sure that we you know that that
we have presentation of of equal representation in the research.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Kristin unbelievable. I seriously wish I had a full day
with you. I'm coming. We should come out. Jocely and
I were planning at this coast. Oh my god, you
absolutely should thousand. You're in Boston, right, yes, yes, well
if you're.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Having an off lab, but you can do a Goo
two max test, we can work out.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
We can.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Oh, we're doing it all. We're doing it all. Well,
thank you so much for your time, thank you for
what you're doing for women. Thank you for your non negotiables,
and for joining us today for this part too. And
I'm just I just adore you and I love that
we have access to you. So thank you again for coming.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
On, thanks for having me, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Until next time EH.
Hey everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara, and welcome
to the Body Pod. Welcome back, Kristen.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Round two. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We were like getting the vibe and then all of
a sudden it was like, well, we gotta wrap it up.
So I know, I'm so glad, thank you for your time.
I know you're super busy. So we're gonna get right
back into where we left off. Let's start with the
massive topics of hot and cold exposure and kind of
(00:37):
like when we want to use those how they benefit
women or don't benefit women.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Let's start there, all right, Well, I have some you know,
analysis hot off the press with regard to cold, but
I we don't. I don't have the same analysis yet
for sauna. That said, I think sauna is pretty well documented.
We can talk about in general terms. It's it's benefit,
(01:03):
you know, how how beneficial it is I think for
both men and women, and just what the research kind
of tells us to date. But with regard to cold,
we we found some really interesting effects and there the
ice bath and or cold water immersion provides definitely measurable
(01:25):
benefits to recovery and sleep.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
But it's it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Nuanced, so whether or not you are high fit versus
low fit absolutely changes the impact of ice bath or
cold plunge on markers of recovery. So I'll talk about
the differences because it's really fascinating, So maybe I guess
(01:52):
I'll start there. So for folks who are considered low fit,
So basically what we did is we looked at all
of we had, you know, over a million observations, right
of folks who have you know done sample size was
in the tens of thousands, right, So we're talking about
lots of folks who.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Are doing ice bath a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So we had a really nice, robust sample size that
we're able to analyze, and we basically bucketed into we
did kind of just general effects right across the population,
and then we actually bucketed into kind of high fit,
so people who have high cardiovascu for fitness as measured
by their their their age and their resting heart rate
(02:34):
and heart variability. And then we had a bucket of
like the low fit folks, and we use basically kind
of standard measures of like, we basically looked at our
population because we do have a selection bias and that
like generally folks are fitter on our platform, so we're
not like the standard American population necessarily, so we basically
(02:55):
took normative values of folks who are from our population.
So I just wanted to caveat that. But what we
saw is that low fit folks benefit more from ice
bath then high fit folks in the sweet spot to
(03:18):
get the most restorative benefits you want if you're high fit,
So if you're working out, you know more than four
and a half four times per week, two times per
week is when you will see the best benefit on
your markers of recovery. Anything more than two times per week,
(03:40):
we see a negative impacts of recovery. And we're controlling
for things like seep, wake time, and alcohol and light
meals like things that can really impact your resting physiology.
We're controlling for those things. So we have this like
really clean data set, and I will say that I
feel pretty confident that if you're in that high fit category,
I think the protocol is you want to keep your
(04:02):
ice bath to two times per week or your cold
cold water immersion. If you're on the lower fit side,
it seems that any amount of ice bath over the
course of a week is going to actually have a
positive effect, and when we think about the mechanisms that
are involved, it kind of makes sense in that ice
(04:23):
bath is stressful, right, It's like, uh, it's it's a
it's a real you know. You you're basically, you know,
really increasing in the heart rate and it's you know,
it's a sympathetic activity, you know, for the first minute
or so, and then after you kind of ride through
that that sympathetic dominance, you end up actually getting into
that more of a parasympathetic state, you know, in kind
(04:45):
of minute two by minute by minute two. But that said,
it still is overall a pretty stressful event on the system.
And so when you're already when you're basically doing when
you're layering basically more exercise on top of what is
already stressful in the in the in the cold bath,
and you're doing that more than two times a week,
(05:07):
you're basically you're basically creating more stress than your body
is interested in handling. And that comes at a cost,
and we see that cost reflected in your resting physiology.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well done, what's the difference, Oh sorry, what's the difference
between the nuances then of the temperature of the cold water?
Number one? And how quickly we do it after exercise
because we hear like, oh, well you do it after exercise,
and it actually does the opposite of what we want
(05:38):
it to. Or that's what the the you know what
we've been hearing on social media. So where do those
two things define?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, so you know, and this is where I'll have
to kind of combine their research. But we know that
women have different responses than men, and both men and
women respond the same in that in our data, in
that we see positive benefits for people who are kind
of in that lower fit category and are not exercising
(06:08):
as much. It seems that ice bass are going to
they're gonna impact I can get into sleep. But there's
it's they're fully these effects are fully needed by improvements
in sleep consistency and duration. Individuals who are are who
are engaging in ice bass are are maintaining steadier and
(06:29):
longer sleep patterns and which are leading to better markets
of recovery, which is super exciting. We see ice bass
again in this lower fit population, decrease HRV CV, which
is the variability in your hr V day to day,
and that is essentially an indicator of greater autonomic stability.
(06:51):
In this again is partially needed by improved sleep metrics.
But we see this both for men and women. Now again,
once we are you know, for folks who are exercising
more than four times a week and are kind of
in this higher fit category, we see that on non
workout days absolutely impact positively impacts recovery the next day.
(07:14):
But again on workout days, and this goes to your
your your last question, when you're doing when you're working
out really hard and layering ice bath on top of that,
it does not seem to have a positive impact on
marker's discovery. So it seems that we might want to
consider kind of doing ice bath on days.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
That we're actually not exercising.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And we know in the literature in other you know,
studies that have have been have been done, and we're
actually doing a cold water immersion study with UCLA right
now looking at all the mechanisms and it's in a
lot of the performance metrics kind of running alongside. So
we're analyzing those data right now, so we'll be able
to fill in some of this story. But but we
know that there is a potential interference effect when we
(08:03):
are in that when we engage in cold water immersion,
directly after a weightlifting session that can attenuate some of
the games by reducing inflammation. Inflammation inherently after a workout
is not bad, right, Like that is our body's response
to kind of manage the stress, and a lot of
that is actually really adaptive and informdic in nature, and
(08:26):
we want to basically allow that to occur. So when
we're doing an ice bath, we basically kind of mute
all of of that. Those interactions which are are are
maybe not as adaptive as they as they should be.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So fascinating. Yeah, wow, So.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
September you posted, so moving on just just another topic.
So we want to get into some of the studies
that you guys are getting ready to post that we're reviewed.
So you submitted for a peer review back in the September,
did I guess? So I wanted to start with the
study that was on the effects of creatine and the
markers of sleep and recovery.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So here we're big.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Advocates of creatine for many reasons, but there is a
belief out there that there that it can have a
negative impact on sleep. I think a lot of people
have steered clear of it for that for that particular reason.
Can you can you tell us a little bit about
what the data is saying around that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
So actually creating consumption increases sleep consistency, which again I
don't know what the mechanism would be from a circadian perspective,
but I have a theory around this, and if you
I can talk through what that theory is. But basically,
(09:43):
just the data, we see almost a four percent increase
in sleep consistency with creatine consumption.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh, everyone needs that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Sleep consistency is like literally the hard hardest behavior. But
it actually so it seems to be that for some
there are something happening like and it could just be
a part of when I'm taking creatine, I'm just a
little bit more in a routine, I am kind of
thinking more intentionally about my health just generally, usually when
people are are working out, you know, they're also pairing
(10:15):
that with creatine. So there might be just something from
a routine perspective that is, you know, that is unmeasured
obviously in this in this step, but the effects here
are real on sleep consistenty.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, four points is.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Huge passive, right, So you're talking about going from you know,
sixty percent sleep consistenty to sixty four percent, you know,
when you're when you're when you're taking creatine, which is
which is massive, and that actually that increase in sleep
consistency improves recovery by point four five percent, which doesn't
sound like a lot, but again these have compound effects
(10:51):
right over when we're thinking about this time, but generally
creating and consumption is increasing recovery by two percent, So
again it might not sound like a lot, but we
think about just you know, the marginal gains that we're
doing across the things that we're doing across the day. Right,
so if we're taking creatine and we're you know, we're
(11:13):
we're you know, we're doing a nice bath on days
that we're not working out.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Say when we're you know, sablings in actually waked time.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Like it's just all these little things are are adding up,
right and are putting us a position to enhance our
recovery in a way that allows us to kind of
show up tomorrow with with a bit more capacity.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So so it's.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Really interesting because I always I had this theory that
it had to do with sleep efficiency, where if you
were sleeping because maybe people that take it feel like
they sleep a shorter period of time so that but
in that time they're more efficient.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
That was just my gap my theory looking at the information.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
So it's really interesting we're doing we're doing all this
research on kind of what actually is healthy sleep. And
there's no question we've replicated this many time times.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The fitter you are, the less sleep you actually need,
it seems I but but but I think.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's it's and I think it's to your it's it's
to your point, Joscelyn that I think there there's an
association between you know, the movement and the exercise, the
things are happening during the day, and the quality of
your sleep at night. Right, And and we do see
that creating consumption is associated with with actually slightly slight
(12:35):
increase in minutes, but a stistically significant increase in restorative sleep.
So there is something interesting interesting there. So again, the
minutes increase isn't a lot. And I know there's been
some out other literature that has suggested people that take
creating are actually spending less time in bed. But you know,
(12:57):
we see this really interesting relationship between the consistency of
sleep and a bit more time, which usually drives restorative sleep.
So it's not surprising that that relation shows up. And
then there's a linear relationship generally between quality of sleep
and heart rate variability. So in Harry, variability does not
play ball with duration really at all. Unless it's like
(13:22):
really regious kind of short sleep, we will see obviously
decreases and hearty variability. But generally speaking, if it's close
to kind of meeting your generally general like typical kind
of sleep need, we see HRV more highly correlated to
the quality of sleep that you have. So for example,
(13:43):
you can be spending let's say you on averageer spending
seven hours of bed. You're seven hours of bed. Let's
say you had really bad quality sleep, your hearty variability
is going to be is usually related to that is
associated with that lower quality. If you're spending seven hours
in bed, but with high quality, your HRV is usually
going to be higher, which is a good thing. So anyway,
(14:04):
we say this really strong relationship between quality of sleep
and heart rate variability.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Another reason for creatine.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yes, yes, yeah, So another one of the studies that
you had mentioned in that post was about the impact
of late workouts, and I wanted to kind of dig
into that one. So we do have a community of
women who have very high demands in their life and
a lot of times the only time of day they
can work out is in the evening. So do you
have any information on how a late workout impacts and
(14:34):
maybe what is a cutoff time, just like what is
the cutoff time for stopping to eat, to stop walking
out to get good sleep.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
So there's a lot of individual variability with all of
this stuff, right that said, I think it's really clear
that on average, late workouts are going to have a
negative effect on sleep. And I think that's actually probably
more to do with the light exposure during the workout session.
(15:03):
So again, if you're having our if you're exposed to
a lot of artificial lights, So if you're in over
edge gym which are usually you know, really well lit,
and the sun has gone down, you know, maybe it's
eight thirty at night and you're getting flooded by all
this artificial light that is obviously going to delay your melatonin,
(15:24):
the release of melatonin, which is you know, only gets
released in the presence of darkness and is really what
helps kind of facilitate that sleep onset. And I know,
I think we already talked a lot about melatonin. But
so I think that's probably what's going on there. Now,
some individuals are not as sensitive to light, so there's
(15:45):
certainly a spectrum. And and generally as we get older,
we tend to get more sensitive to light. So I
think that's just something to be aware of as well.
But there is a spectrum, and you know, some people
are really sensitive in that it's going to impact there's
circadian rhythms more profoundly versus other folks who are are
less sensitive to light and are going to have less
(16:06):
of an impact. So I do say that there's individual variability.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You know, that said.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Exercise is so damn important, you know, I think if
it means you know, you're cutting down on your sleep
by forty five minutes, it's probably worth it, you know.
I would say, you know, too much lost sleep, you know,
and and kind of accruing too much sleep debt is
(16:36):
is going to come at a cost, right, and you
just have to you have to kind of weigh weigh
the opportunity and cost there. I think with with with
exercise and timing, but I mean generally speaking, you don't
you want to be able to have a beautiful, you know,
restorative nights sleep where you wake up feeling refreshed.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You know, you shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Adults should generally not feel sleepy during the day if
you're getting the sleep that you need during the night.
So I'd kind of just zoom out and just kind
of look at the opportunity and cost and and just
the frequency of having to work out late and what
that really looks like for you.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
So if you have to work out late, where you're
some glasses to the gym.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, we're just the treadmill if you're doing intervals Kardashians,
We're glad. Yeah, you can definitely were like you're just
start a new trend. I know, but I.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Think like a hat late black and glasses, you know,
could be a way to go for sure. Yeah, so
just so you can operate safely in that environment. Of course,
that's that's the most important thing. But but yeah, I
mean we we generally we need to protect our sleep,
like it's really important, you know. And and and I
(17:42):
know that we need to work out too, and you know,
and that's where like I think just being kind of
creative too, Like I mean I have literally, you know,
I've got like a thirty five pound kettlebell in my
office and like I'm just like you know, like I just.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Like I'll like getting it done.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So, you know whatever, Like even if I didn't come
by in an office, like even if I was out there,
you know, in a little pod, like I don't care,
Like I still do goalblet squats like whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I've got a walking treadmill.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, I have one of those as well. And I
used to tell everyone used to tell me you're making
me seasick.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah I know, yeah, like when I'm like slack and email.
But but I think, like, like ladies, like let's just
get creative too, you know, Like so I think on
days where you know what, like I'm just I'm I
just this is this is going to be my workout.
It's just what is what it is. And I don't
(18:39):
even care, like I'm super not self conscious and we
just have to like let let that go and it
just you know, these exercise snacks Like there's actually like
a lot of really good literature around that too, that
this it can be even more effective than a consolidated
forty five minute workout, you know, just like breaking up
like our sedentary behavior with like just these mini moments
(19:00):
of you know, of activation and we can do goblet squads.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
We can do you know, just even like you.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Know, Dumbo, like bicep curls like I you know, I
just think movement is the most important thing. And fitting
it in whenever you can is I think the second
piece to that.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And before we before we move on to the next subject,
you can you cannot bank sleep right, like you can't
be like, oh, I'm going to catch up on the
weekend and I'm going to sleep fourteen hours.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Okay, So two parts of that. So we published a
paper a couple of years ago, three years ago. Now,
we basically looked at sleep behavior prior to lockdown during
COVID and and we looked at kind of your baseline
psychological kind of resilience. And then we looked at after lockdown.
(19:53):
We looked at your sleep behaviors and kind of your
psychological functioning. And what we saw in those data is
that people with more stable sleep wake time were actually
seem to be less affected by COVID from like a
(20:13):
psychological functioning standpoint. So people who had like more aligned
circadian rhythms kind of going into lockdown were more robust
to the dilitarious effects of like all the craziness that
that was happening during COVID. So I think there is
something to be said where there is this notion that
you can build your resilience and create buffer in the system.
(20:38):
So when you are introduced with stress or disruption, I mean,
you can't even think about the holidays as the same
sort of thing or any sort of event where you're
going to be sleeping in a different bed and you're
traveling and you're kind of out of your routine. Well,
if you go into that moment depleted, you're really screwed, right,
you know. Yeah, there is this notion that you can
(20:59):
kind of build a buffer, make yourself like as bulletproof
as possible, so when there is disruption, you're more equipped
to kind of handle those perturbations and not be as affected.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So so there's that, But but you're absolutely right, Haley,
like you, you can't make up for lost sleep, right,
So the genes that you know, we're supposed to turn
on last night but didn't because I didn't sleep, are
not going to just doubly turn on tonight, right, So
you know there is this thing as compensatory kind of
rebound sleep.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The body's really good at you know, if I didn't
get as much rem as I should have last night,
I'm going to make up for it tonight probably, Like
if you're a healthy kind of person, generally that's going
to be happening. But you want to avoid that as
much as possible, because then you kind of get into
this cycle, right where you're always in a situation where
(21:54):
you know, if I'm compensating tonight for like my crappy
sleep last night, like, then the next night's sleep is
probably I'm gonna endep right. Yeah. So so no, and
I will say we are going to publish a paper
on kind of social jet lag where we do see
that the negative impact of a more inconsistent sleepway time
(22:16):
does not outweigh uh short sleep on the weekend, So
if you're getting short sleep during the week, So social
jet lag is essentially variation between your week day sleep
patterns and your weekend sleep patterns in that your weekday
(22:37):
is relatively stable and then the weekend but maybe short sleep,
and then the weekend you're basically long sleep and maybe
irregular sleep. So that's essentially like the feature of social jetlag.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So what we see in the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Data is people with short sleep and it can, but
relatively consistent during the week actually fear better by extending
the sleep on the weekend. So that's the answer to question.
You do want to extend your sleep on the weekend.
But but if you're basically extending it, I would not
(23:13):
go beyond maybe ninety minutes of what you are, you know,
of what your typical kind of If you're like getting
maybe six and a half hours during the week, I'd
probably try to keep it to like eight hours. I
don't know that I sleep for ten hours right like that,
there's going to be a lot of junk sleep in there,
which is probably going to just make you more lethargic.
(23:35):
So yeah, I mean I do whatever I can to
kind of avoid scenarios where I'm in this like social
jet like situation. But I know that a lot of
people that's their life.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But yeah, oh, something that you just can't chinse on.
I mean, it's especially as we get older. It's just
and the sleep. I mean, we talked about that too.
It's it's tricky. It's a fine balance. But need to
prioritize all of those things, like they're just non negotiables.
They should be non negotiables.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I know, it's it's it's so hard, you know, Like
I don't mean I don't want to like sit here
and say it's not it's not hard, but it's like
you just kind of have to slowly design your life
where you're prioritizing your sleep and you're figuring out, you know,
how to think about your workouts and your social commitments,
and you know, creating boundaries at work and you know,
(24:25):
getting your family on board. Like this is this is
not easy, right, Like what it takes it really hard
for us. But but I think I think we know
at this point sleep is non negotiable and and we
need to do everything that we kind.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Of protect it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And to your point, Hayley, like the older we get,
you know, the the more that is just the case,
Like we are just more more sensitive to every everything, Yeah,
everything to alcohol, we're more sensitive to, uh, you know,
to light, and and we're more sensitive to you know,
short sleep and you know, it's it's so we.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Just have to be strategic.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
So there was another study that you'd indicated that was
about the heart and health behavior responses to GLP ones,
and in our community, you know, that's one of the
tools in the toolbox that we share with our community
as women are trying to get healthier, live longer. Is
you know, supplementing with a GLP one when you're trying
to when you have a significant amount of weight to lose.
(25:23):
So I'm curious what kinds of information you guys have
uncovered in that area.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, great question. Let me just pull up. Pull on
one second. Let me I just want to get.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's a heavy question, a heavy topic.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, no, so we got it. Yeah, A long story short.
Exercise attenu weights the negative impact on cardiovascular parameters. So
individuals who exercise versus individuals who don't have less of
an impact, less of a negative impact on their hardy
(26:04):
variability and resting heart rate, which is not surprising, right,
But when you go on these drugs, you will see
your resting heart rate increase, You'll see your hearty variability decrease.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
These are generally like not favorable things to be happening, right,
Like you're putting extra stress on your cardiovascrosystem. And this
is one of the side effects, right, and negative consequences
of GLP one antagonists. But what we see in our
data very clearly is that folks who are exercising a
few times a week actually attenuate this negative impact on
(26:38):
the cardiovascar system. So I think this idea that I know,
this is really cool. So this is in review right now,
so this should be published soon. But I think when
we kind of zoom out and think about the purpose
behind these results in recognizing that there's always going to
be trade offs, right, and that exercise just really matters,
(27:01):
and we can actually mitigate some of the these negative.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Side effects of of GOLP.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
One by incorporating cardiovascuor exercise, right, And I guarantee strength
training is going to just add to this.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So this is basically you.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Know, we're looking at all kind of cardio cardi respiratory
type of fitness. But but yeah, I mean I thought
this is really an exciting finding, one that makes complete sense, right,
But it's just nice to have data.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
These are data that that don't exist currently, so it's nice.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
To and a lot of those lines that a lot
of the studies that are coming out around GLP ones
are around the change in body composition as you as
you lose the weight, and a lot of them are
showing that people are losing a lot of their mass
from muscle and not fat. So you know, pairing these
with a good good nutrition, so eating plenty of protein
(27:58):
as well as strength and cardiovasque their exercise is the
key to success with using them.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
We know that.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
So that's obviously again we call it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
One of the tools in the toolbox to help you
along the way, but you have to do the other things.
The other the other things are non negotiable. So and
that just speaks to it even more, you know, from
the from the heart health perspective as well.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And I think this is also really noteworthy that so
whoop users, So our sample were all Whoop users. So
we looked at basically are the results of our folks.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
In terms of their change in.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
In uh in BMI and the folks on our platform
who are basically using our technology and also these GLP
one and also using GLP one, they lost almost as
much weight than twelve weeks as participants who took five
milligrams over the course of one hundred and seventy six weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Wow, wow, oh my gosh. So we're publishing those data.
But isn't that just wild? Yes, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, you have access to all of the best
information that we're all just like sponges. For I mean,
this is like and and the great thing about podcasts
and social media and this whole era is that everyone
can have can get this knowledge. I mean it's available
(29:35):
from people like you. So yeah, fascinating all of it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
It is really interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
And I think, you know, for for folks who are
going to go down this path, I mean justly to
your point, like.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You you want to retain as.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Much muscle as possible, like that is like that that
is also nons your metabolism. Yeah, I mean that it's
like everything right, Like and when we think about like
the role muscle plays in just our overall health and functioning,
like it is just you know, I think we're learning,
you know, more and more about about the mechanism and
(30:14):
how crucial it is. But but yeah, I mean I
think that like every human on the planet needs to
be on a strength program.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Like it's just.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Say that again, every human on the planet needs to
be on a strength program. And if they don't know
how to lift weights and do not feel confident the gym,
they need to get a coach and they need to
be they need to build their competency inside the weight room.
And there is honestly nothing more important for a woman
(30:47):
like my daughter will leave my house understanding how to program,
how to lift weights, how to you know, she is
going to know everything that she needs to know that
she can have, know that you have for the rest
of her life. Right And and that is honestly like
a responsibility we have as citizens. Like and I know
(31:08):
political and philosophical, but you know, the last thing I
want for myself is to be a burden on society, right,
Like I think that we have a responsibility to take
control of our health. And I and I understand that,
you know, it is it I'm coming from maybe a
place of privilege. I've I've you know, had a lot
(31:29):
of shit in my life like most folks. But but
you know, I have been an athlete my whole life,
So I understand how to program, I understand I do
all these things. But but it's it's it's like the
same thing as like learning how to cook, Like these
are things that you need to develop the skills and
expertise so you can, you know, you can you can
(31:50):
show up in the world with capacity and not not
be vulnerable to illness and to injury.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And you know, there.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
There's just a path to that, you know, and it
starts with like moving heavy stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, that you gave me the chills.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
That sums it up right there.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Amazing, I mean, and it really is like if we
get back to the basics that we're all talking about,
all of this links together. It all links together, every
conversation that we've had with you and the whole help spectrum.
It's nothing fancy. It's just like get it done, prioritize it,
and it doesn't have to look like you know whoever
(32:28):
on Instagram or any social media like it just has
to be something that you're in and out every day.
These are the choices and the behaviors that you now have.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, and there's never been We're at kind of an
unpres unpresentented time in human history and that we have
access to all of this information and you know, it's
just you know, following reputable folks who have the right information,
who are doing the due diligence to make sure that
the information they're transferring is accurate and that promoting safety
(32:59):
and the proper tech technique and you know, so it's
we're at a point in time where you know, this
is it's there for us, right, there's there's kind of
no excuses at this point, right, And and it's like
we just like need to take control of our health.
And when I think about like democracy, and like one
of the biggest threats to democracy is just the sickness
(33:20):
that exists in this in our country in terms of
metabolic dysfunction and cardiovaster disease, and like that's the actual
threat to democracy, right, Like yeah, you can zoom out
for a second. Like so like whoever you are, whatever,
like is important to you, Like this is actually at
the foundation.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Mike drop, Kristin. This is like the second mic drop today.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I had one more.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Question that I wanted to make sure we got in today, Kristen.
And that is on some of a lot of well,
I'll hear sometimes that a lot of the data that's
being gathered on the various is very male centric, or
or as much of the research is being done on men,
or even the data around HRV and some of those
(34:08):
things are more men male centric. Can you do either
debunk that myth or tell us in the right path.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That's like such an important thing to note. And I
think you know, I can speak to Whoop and I'll
say most of our competitors are not doing they don't
have a lab, right, They're not doing their own data collection.
They are buying data and training their algorithms off of
that bought data.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yes, we do not do that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
We have humans coming into our lab, or we go
to Austin we run data collections, or we go to California,
or we go to Ireland, like we're going all of
the world kind of running these data collections, and we
do a lot of it out of our lab. We
ensure diversity of skin tone, We ensure that we have
all sorts of types of different types of humans. So
(34:57):
are the algorithms that are used for a woman are
not the same as the algorithms that are used for
a man.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right there you.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Go all the reasons that we know are true that
we are not the same as guys.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And maybe I need to make a change.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Perhaps perhaps, Yeah, I think that you know, this is
something that we think so deeply about. And we just
had this huge, like research kind of activation moment at
our headquarters where we invited a bunch of women in
our community to kind of come and spend the evening
(35:36):
at wop HQ. I gave a presentation on perimenopause and
menopause and you know, just behaviors that are really health
promoting versus detracting. And so we had this just like
really nice day. We were just like invited our our
members to come and and and kind of hear what
we do to collect data and try to get encourage
them to be a part of our data collections.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So we'd really take we're doing everything.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That we can to make sure that we are collecting
the right data so we can build algorithms that that
makes sense for men, it makes sense for women. I
think also on my side, you know, four years ago,
I made a commitment that I will never engage in
a study where I don't have equal representation both male
(36:22):
and female. So our cold Water Immergion study at UCLA,
I do not. I say no unless you're going to
have the same representation of women as in men.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So you get the forty seven.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Football team, Okay, we're going to get the soccer women's
soccer team. We're gonna get the wom's volleyball team, and
we're gonna get the cross country girls.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
So we're gonna have on each side. So I'm like,
you know, I'm of and that's what it takes. That
is what it takes.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And we have to, like, we have to just say
this is actually how it's gonna roll. And you know
you want us to be involved, you want this data,
then you know you have to we are going to
commit to making sure that we you know that that
we have presentation of of equal representation in the research.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Kristin unbelievable. I seriously wish I had a full day
with you. I'm coming. We should come out. Jocely and
I were planning at this coast. Oh my god, you
absolutely should thousand. You're in Boston, right, yes, yes, well
if you're.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Having an off lab, but you can do a Goo
two max test, we can work out.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
We can.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Oh, we're doing it all. We're doing it all. Well,
thank you so much for your time, thank you for
what you're doing for women. Thank you for your non negotiables,
and for joining us today for this part too. And
I'm just I just adore you and I love that
we have access to you. So thank you again for coming.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
On, thanks for having me, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Until next time EH.
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