April 3, 2025 • 37 mins
(00:00:00) The Truth About Women and Alcohol: Understanding the Real Impact with Dr. Kimberly Mallett
(00:02:31) How alcohol functions for people
(00:08:33) Behavioral component with alcohol
(00:19:59) Difference between men & women & alcohol
In this eye-opening episode, we sit down with clinical psychologist Dr. Kimberly Mallett to discuss the real effects of alcohol on women’s health. From emotional well-being to long-term physical impacts, Dr. Mallett sheds light on the unique challenges women face with alcohol consumption. Tune in to understand the truth about women and alcohol, and how it affects your health, relationships, and overall lifestyle.
(00:02:31) How alcohol functions for people
(00:08:33) Behavioral component with alcohol
(00:19:59) Difference between men & women & alcohol
In this eye-opening episode, we sit down with clinical psychologist Dr. Kimberly Mallett to discuss the real effects of alcohol on women’s health. From emotional well-being to long-term physical impacts, Dr. Mallett sheds light on the unique challenges women face with alcohol consumption. Tune in to understand the truth about women and alcohol, and how it affects your health, relationships, and overall lifestyle.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, This is Hayley and I'm Laura and welcome
to the body Pod.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today, on the body Pod we have doctor Kimberly Mallett,
who happens to be not only a clinical psychologist but
also a good friend of mine. Doctor Mallett received her
PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Washington in
Seattle and completed her APA approved internship at Harborview Medical
(00:33):
Center in Seattle, Washington. She is a licensed psychologist in
the state of Colorado and a professor at Penn State University,
where she focuses her research on improving the health and
lives of individuals through clinically based interventions. In addition to
working with individuals dealing with a variety of issues such
(00:55):
as depression, anxiety, adjustment to difficult life events, etc. She
has specialized expertise in the treatment of alcohol and substance
related problems and coping with chronic health problems. So we
are here to talk all things women and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Let's dive in. Welcome to the Body Pod.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Doctor Kimberly Mallet is joining us to talk about all
things females and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, duneuons on, you can tell I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
The life of the party.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
When I go to is this a buzzkill episode? Everyone's
like wah wah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Saying I show up at a party for people sitting
next to you like, well, I did want another glass,
but I guess I'll hold off.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
Sometimes sometimes I am that person on the plane that
has to be really careful about what I say I
do to the.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Person next to me when they ask I.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Bet, yeah, you can think about that.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, let's start with this quote to alcohol the cause
of and solution to all of life's problems Homer J.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Simpson.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, I am a massive Simpsons bad So this is
like that says it all right there, it's full circle, right,
full circle.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
We start off, and I think it really represents how
alcohol functions for so many people.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
We start off.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
As younger adults or even teens an experiment.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It's a social facilitator.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
It makes us think that we're being you know, lowers inhibition,
so we can talk to people more easily, we're more
fun and then over time we start to use it
to cope with things. If we go down that road,
and that's going to lead to a lot more problems.
But we see that in younger populations too, and that
is a huge indicator of risk for future problems. If
(03:03):
we see younger people using alcohol to cope with stress,
to unwine, to relax, and it starts a pattern that
really sets us up for potential auds in the future.
AUD means alcohol use disorder And this is like what
you this is your specialty? Yes, So I live two worlds.
(03:26):
So I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm a research professor.
You get trained to do both therapy and research when
you get your PhD in clinical psychology. So for the
past hmm, I'm going to date myself. So I say,
at least thirty years I've been in the field of
alcohol research.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And when I.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
First decided to go into this world, what drew me
to this area is how much of an impact alcohol
makes on our society, both at an individual level, the
people who care about individuals who struggle with alcohol, and
then society as a whole. And when we think about
(04:08):
drunk driving accidents, health we had just physical violence. Alcohol
is a huge problem for so many people and our
society in general. So based on that, I wanted to
be in health in some way and that is really
(04:29):
what stood out to me, and so I started as
an undergraduate and went into graduate school, and ever since
I have actually gone into more prevention work because after
learning about all of this, my research focuses on how
can we prevent people from having these problems in the
(04:49):
first place, Because once you get them, you're dealing with
them for the rest of your life. So if we
can prevent them, that's even better. In my clinical practice,
I do deal with treatment of these issues, So I
deal with working with people to try to help them
get to a place where they can get their life back.
And so I see it full circle.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I see it.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
From the beginning and I see it from the treatment
end as well.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, let's just dive right in to the Surgeon General's
warning that just came out a few days ago. How
timely that the direct link between alcohol and cancer.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Let's just start there.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
Yeah, so alcohol is the third leading cause of cancer.
It's right behind tobacco on obesity. And this is not new.
This has been that way for a long time. It's
not like some new research came out and everyone's floored.
It just never really translated to the public. So I
(05:55):
think we're very well aware of the risk of tobacco.
Smoking causes lung cancer. We've known that for decades now,
but alcohol, we just have a very different relationship to it.
I think what's startling about these findings is that people
(06:20):
think alcohol, of course, is problematic when you use an
excess of it, when you used too much. So we
think about it around liver disease, and we know it's
not good for a cardiovascular system, all these other things
are affected by it. But even lower amounts of alcohol
increase our risk for cancer. And that's what I think
(06:43):
people really need to pay attention to, is no amount
of alcohol is deemed safe.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Buzz.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I know, I'm terrible.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I have to tell you this was I was just
telling Laura this before you jumped on. So I was
down in November at a conference, a women's health conference
with doctor Vonda Wright and all of these leaders in
the in the mental PAS space were there and this
came up multiple times in multiple speakers, you know, in
(07:22):
what they were addressing. And I was telling Laura, this
was the first time in my life where I went
to this kind of sit down, very intimate, private dinner
and they served mocktels like there wasn't alcohol anywhere, and I.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Just like it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
It's just like you're so used to just seeing it
at any event, any event. I remember when we moved
here and Steve was working for you know, an advertising
agency here, and even like the kids Halloween party, and
they would do all these like kids, you know, your
kids to work day and they'd have all these massive
(08:02):
parties for the kids, just fun stuff. But then every
like there was just alcohol for the adults during the day.
And I was like, well, this is the Halloween hit
party you guys.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Are at work. I mean it's like, you.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Know, has it gotten out of control? I mean, it's
just those are a few things that I've noticed, just
with my limited experience.
Speaker 6 (08:28):
I would say, yeah, And that is really what we
have to remember is there is a huge behavioral component
with alcohol use, and we associate it with so many
social events and celebratory is a huge piece of it,
going out to dinner, being in a restaurant. I mean,
(08:49):
there's a lot of societal pressure when we get together
to drink alcohol. And that's why it's I think, really
hard to wrap our heads around how is this so
bad for us? You know, what is this doing to
our body? And now I am going to caveat this
and say I'm not going to tell people to be
(09:11):
abstinate there. I think there are ways to be healthy
and include alcohol, but I think it really demands some
intention about it. And that's what strikes me about these
findings is it's really drawing our attention to being careful
and track how much we drink and being aware of
(09:34):
what we're drinking and picking when we do it, not
getting into patterns of it having to happen all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
With all of these gatherings, that.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Was one of the questions I was going to ask
you that Haley and I were also speaking about before
you hopped on is I wanted to ask you if
what your thought is around people that say, Okay, I'm
going to be completely obstinate and never to and alcohol again,
because from a psychologist standpoint, do you find that that
(10:04):
gets people in trouble sometimes to completely say I'm never
going to do it again instead of having intention or
good a good relationship with it.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
It depends on the person. There are a lot of
people who choose to be abstinate for a variety of reasons.
Some are proactive because maybe they have a strong family history,
maybe they have certain risk factors, certain health issues, remember
if we're taking a lot of medications, and I can
(10:41):
kind of touch on that down the road with some
of these other topics I know you want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
But.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
There are certain health reasons, certain psychological reasons, and family
history reasons. The other piece is if someone does have
a problem and they've crossed what I call the line
in the sand of then going into dependence physical dependence,
they really can't drink alcohol anymore because their relationship with it,
(11:13):
it's just not possible to have a healthy one. So
if someone and I think what you're getting at, Laura,
is if someone is just at war with themselves, like
I have to be abstinate, but I don't really want
to be.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
So there's a lack of motivation.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
Well, i'd say, you know what, I'd want to understand
what that motivation is. Do they want to drink? Are
there certain situations that might allow for it in their mind?
You don't have to completely give it up. I think
what this is getting at the Surgeon General's report and
some of what we're seeing come out of Canada, which
(11:51):
is the whole country has basically taken the stance of
we really can't say any amount of alcohol is safe,
and we do that with certain populations here pregnant women,
we say no amount of alcohol is safe to drink
while you're pregnant, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say that for adults.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Without dependency issues or who aren't pregnant, and we do
give guidelines, but it's really something you have to examine yourself.
And I think if people start to question is my
relationship with alcohol healthy, it might not be. And so
that's when you want to just take account of are
(12:32):
there changes that need to be made and where am
I struggling? And really, what I'd say is that drinking
to cope piece is kind of that.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Red flag for a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
If that if you find yourself thinking I need a
drink right now, that's what for me raises my red
flag is Okay, some thing's not okay. We shouldn't be
drinking to cope because that's a sign of a larger issue.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
What about the research that showed alcohol had some health benefits.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, let's add some light.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
The reality is a lot of physicians that just don't
concur with that, and there's many reasons for that. Just
the way the studies were done, there could be a
lot of confounds. So basically what they found, I think
we're talking about red wine and heart health. Okay, so
(13:35):
they're looking at the antioxidants and red wine. There's a
lot of other things that could be going on there
in terms of potentially red wine drinkers also engage in
other healthier habits and healthier diets in general, so we
can't really attribute causation there. What we can say though,
(13:57):
is that the benefits don't outweigh the risk here. So
you can get antioxidants in a lot of other places.
Never ever, ever have I heard a doctor, or imagine
a doctor said to a patient, Hey, how much are
you drinking?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Nothing?
Speaker 6 (14:15):
You might want to start, you know, it doesn't happen,
and so exercise, diet, taking supplements, you know, drinking grape juice.
I don't care. Just it doesn't have to be fermented.
So yeah, I know, but I know that we want
it to be good. And that's the thing, is it
(14:37):
be great if we had positive effects from it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Bias, Right, we'll find this Well, this study says that
it's healthy, so exactly.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Yeah, and and there's just so many other issues too
where it people struggle it again, the risk outwagh, the
benefits because you're still getting the alcohol. And that being said,
what we know about alcohol itself is.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It is a toxic.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
I mean, it can infiltrate. It's a central nervous system depressant.
The reason it affects so many of our systems, our, liver, cancer,
all these things cardiovascular is because it has a wide reach.
A lot of other drugs act on certain eurotransmitters. Well,
alcohol doesn't discriminate. It hits all of them. I mean,
(15:33):
it just goes for it. And so it's very, very powerful.
And because it's such an integral part of our society
and it's accepted, people don't give it the respect that
it deserves as a drug.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
That's really true.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I never thought about it that way about yeah me either.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, so if people are like, okay, but I'm
still going to drink a little bit, what would your
recommendation be, Because that's the question that I'm sure a
lot of women are thinking right now while they're listening.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Yeah, So I'll and I'll be very forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I do drink.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
I'm not an abstainer myself, so I do try. I
am right now though. So I have some interesting insights
on flee but but I'm just taking the whole dry
January thing, and because I know you very well, Hayley,
I'm doing a little series of not really fat loss,
(16:34):
but that's the goal. I'm coming off a surgery, so
I need to get back in shape. So alcohol is
the easiest thing to cut out of our diet to
cut calories that we don't need. But what are our
guidance for healthy drinking parameters? Just so you know, I'm
gonna I'm going to talk about that, but they are
(16:55):
kind of up for reassessment, which they periodically get reassessed,
so I wouldn't be surprised based on the surge in
general's statement that and recommendations that they might get reevaluated,
so they may come out with new ones. Stay tuned,
Stay tuned. So here's what they currently are for women.
(17:17):
The guidance is seven drinks or less a week. That
being said, these are standardized drinks. And I'm very clear
about this because what we know and a lot of
the data that we collect in our studies, people are
notorious about underestimating the amount that they drink because it's
(17:41):
not a standard drink. Isn't that much, especially if you're
drinking cocktails or mixed drinks. It can be really challenging.
And so for example, a bottle of wine is five
drinks and a lot of people think it's four, but
there's actually five drinks in a normal bottle of wine.
(18:02):
So that's just what we're working with here. The other
caveat about that is you really don't want to drink
ever to access, so you don't want to pile up
and drink four drinks in a day if you're a female,
and you don't want to get that blood alcohol level
too high, which you would do if you're drinking more
(18:22):
in a concentrated time frame. So they really don't want
you to binge drink. And that's for women for or
more drinks in a two hour time frame. For men,
it's fourteen drinks a week. Yeah, and there are a
lot of physiological reasons why this is the case, but
(18:46):
so that's the parameter that we're working with. So if
you think about it, that's a if you're drinking a
glass of wine a night, that's it, right, that's one
drink a day. And if you want to have a
couple drinks on the weekend, so you kind of start
to have to be strategic. You want to stay within
(19:07):
these guidelines about when you drink. So certain things that
I think are helpful are not drinking every single day,
taking breaks in the week of where you just don't
drink anything. But again, don't load up and save for
the weekend, because it's we don't want to see people
getting that blood alcohol concentration too high.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And yes, this is so fascinating. So we just talked
to Kristen Holmes. I saw her and met her for
the first time at a conference and she's actually coming
on my Fat Loss Happens course, and she talked all
about the female the gender differences with alcohol. So just
(19:53):
another thing, can you just review some of those differences
between men and women.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
Yeah, before I go on, I do want to say
this because we just talked about how much is safe
to consume and there are a lot of mixed findings.
So the World Health Organization, I do want to point
this out because I think you're getting a lot of
information from different sources. They're taking the stance again like
(20:19):
Canada did, that there is no safe amount and they're
actually labeling alcohol as a carcinogen in the same category
as tobacco, radiation and asbestos.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Do they put the death that like cross with the
skull on it?
Speaker 6 (20:34):
I don't know, you know, they want these labels on it.
I don't know what those labels are going to look like.
But my guess is it's justs in general.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
So there's not stolen cross bus.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I swear that was on like Looney Tunes or I
don't know, like a something.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah, So moving on.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Moving on.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Also as a resource, though we just talked about drink sizes.
This is a complicated topic and so I think there
is a great resource if people are interested. It's a
website that National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism puts
out called Rethinking Drinking. So it's by Anti Triple A
(21:15):
and they have a lot of great resources about how
to just compute your own VAC, what a standard drink sizes,
some of these guidelines about healthy drinking. So it's I
think a helpful resource. All right, men and women? So
why is it that women get the short end of
(21:37):
the stick here? And biology is really a big factor.
So when we calculate blood alcohol concentration, so when I
say bled alcohol concentration, a lot of people associate that
with our legal limit to drive. Right, just point oh eight.
And that's what we're talking about. So we take in
(22:00):
to sert into account for things. We take in the
amount of alcohol you've consumed, how long you've taken to
consume it, and your gender, And why am I forgetting
forgetting one of the things.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
But it's a gender.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Well it's the fact that my dog would have had
me at path to night, so yeah, fun or that,
But it's it's this weight.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Sorry, it's weight, so weight.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Gender, amount of alcohol, time to consume, and those are
really what goes into it. But gender is a big factor.
And the reason is women have a lower so the
enzyme that breaks down alcohol in our system, we have
lower amounts, so it's called alcohol dehydrogenase, and women don't
(22:55):
have as much of it as men, so we don't
break down alcohol as quickly as men do. It's stays
in our system longer, right, Keep that in mind for
what I'm about to say. The other thing is women
typically way less than men weights accounted for, but women
have higher rates of body fat and lower rates of alcohol.
(23:19):
Are water and alcohol is water soluble, so in our
system it's think about like dilution. Men do that better
than women. So it's more concentrated in women's systems. This
is why it's just it's it's more powerful, and you're
seeing a lot of more negative effects health wise for women.
(23:43):
So even if a man, a male, and female weigh
the same amount, a woman is not going to process
alcohol is quickly as a man. She's going to have
a higher BAC and be more intoxicated if she drinks
the same amount.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I've got life. I make it to the gates one day. Frustrating.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Yeah, the problem, the really big issue is there used
to be a huge gender gap between males and females
in the amount of alcohol they consumed, especially in younger populations,
so we would see that males would drink a lot
more than females. What's happening and what we're seeking our
own data is this is narrowing dramatically. So women are
(24:30):
keeping up more and that's.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
A big deal because you're.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
Seeing and hearing about all these health risks and that
is going we don't I mean, that's going to play
the long game. But they're also experiencing a lot of
acute consequences, so blackouts, sexual assaults, all of these acute
terrible consequences because they're drinking heavily.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Is this at a certain stage range? That's why I
was assuming, but I just wanted to make sure.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
Okay, yeah, yeah, So these these gender gaps are narrowing
in certain populations, even in some older populations as well.
So you start to think about as we age, women
are typically in that you know, later twenties, thirties, even forties,
(25:26):
dealing with kids. They got a lot going on. But
then kids grow up and then they have more time
and we'll talk about more of those other things that
can lead to drinking. But drinking starts to make a
little bit more of a comeback again, So those gender
gaps start to narrow.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Okay, speaking of that, how does aging and menopause affect
alcohol use and problems in women?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
So you're gonna love it.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
I know, I'm already magic throw it out us.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
First, and this is going to probably be a broken record,
seeing is you talk a lot about women's health. Guess
what the research needs to catch up? You know, traditionally
a lot more research has been done on men because
alcohol use disorder has been more prevalent in men. But
what we're starting to see is that especially in North
(26:27):
America and some European countries, women make up forty percent
of substance abuse addiction type of behaviors, and so there
used to be predominantly men, whereas women again are catching up,
so these things start to present more in this age group.
(26:49):
So remember, chronic issues often take a long time to evolve.
They're a pattern of behavior over time, and when they
start getting dist when they start creating a lot of
noticeable problems and people start addressing them, is around fifty
five sixty in some studies.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Oh wow, that surprises me.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
That's late.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Doesn't mean that's always the case. But they're happening at
all age groups. But we're also seeing younger people come,
you know, present with a lot of aud issues that
they're not maturing out of. So a lot of college
students have abuse of drinking patterns, which is considered an
ad but they mature out, they don't progress to dependency.
(27:36):
And so over time, though, if you maintain heavy drinking patterns,
you're going to some point develop into that if you
don't change, so or you're likely to. I shouldn't say
you necessarily will, but you're you're much more likely to.
So as we get older in age, you may cut
(27:57):
back a little when your kids are younger and you're
busy or your job's really busy. But once things may
be slow down a little bit, drinking sometimes can make
a comeback. So that's one piece. We're also seeing that
here you go, Hayley, this is why. So take a
(28:20):
woman that's say, menopausal, compared to a younger woman, all
things being equal weight, amount of alcohol consumed, the older
woman they're finding has higher BAC.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, why is that?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Well, what would you guess?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Lower lean mass, muscles.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Yeah, that's a big very lower. We lose muscle mass,
gain body fat. Remember, body fat puts us at a
disadvantage for alcohol processing. The other thing to remember here
is as we age, our liver doesn't work as well.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
This is fascinating.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
Yeah, so our liver doesn't process alcohol, you know, it's
just it's everything slower. And we start taking more medications
as we age. So now you've got this potential of
having interaction effects with drugs or competition for the liver
(29:29):
to process it, because a lot of medication we take
is process through the liver. Yeah, so this is why
you may have heard of this. You don't want to
take Thailand all a receipta menafin if you've been drinking.
(29:50):
Do not take both of those together because it puts
a lot of it's hard for me.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
This is learning.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
That's a lot of tip takeaway for sure. Okay, it's
good to know.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So okay, so we have these, but there's also this
is a time when a lot of couples split up,
or you have a a partner that passes, or you
have parents that pass.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
And so I'm sure that adds to the psychological you know,
just the crutch. Yes, so here's the drinking the cope
kind of keys where you know. Alcohol, So let's not
Let's make no mistake about it. Alcohol is very reinforcing
in a lot of ways, right It it when we
(30:48):
drink it our brain because it acts on so many
of our reward pathways in our brain, it makes us
want more. And in the beginning, again it's it's this
is a whole other topic. You kind of get out
of alcohol what you go into it with. So it's
going to emphasize the mood you're already experiencing or your
(31:12):
expectancy of what it's going to do for you. So
the problem, though, is people start to use it. Tonumb
again to kind of have that relaxation. They associate it
with okay, anxiety. It can kind of ramp me down,
(31:32):
but it also can make us tune out if we're
dealing with a lot of challenges. So, yes, depression can
come up in menopausal women. We see increased rates of
that coming up for menopausal women and preparing menopausal women.
And so if we're trying to manage our mood with
(31:54):
alcohol or feel better because it used to make us
feel better right when we go out and have fun
or go to a party, it's not going to do
that if you enter drinking feeling down because alcohol is
a depressant, so it's going to make you feel more depressed.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
The clubs and bars are hating this trend.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I have to say though, there's so there's also
this social aspect which you've kind of touched on. But
I just like this memory just popped up of the
first time that Steve and I went on a cruise
before we had children, and it was Carnival Cruise Line,
which I think is like known for like the.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Party cruise Line.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We didn't know and we weren't drinking, but we get
on this ship and the whole time from sun up
eight o'clock party, like playing the music. I mean it's
almost like these all inclusive events. Nobody knows how to
not include it. You go to an all inclusive and like,
that's what people love about it.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
You got to get your money's worth.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, yeah, so they were thinking that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
But like all of this, it's interesting to see if
we pulled it all away, like tomorrow it was all gone,
what would it would be such a hard transition for
like companies and the parties, and just like we've had
it in everyone's social gatherings really, I mean the majority
(33:18):
of them for anything.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Yeah, So I think what you described earlier is this
idea of giving people alternatives the mocktails. So when I'm
working with someone who is making that conscious choice to
stop drinking, that's a big thing that comes up, especially
if they're in a professional world that involves a lot
(33:41):
of networking and events and now they don't drink anymore
because and again they don't really want to save people.
Why because if they have if they feel they have
a problem with alcohol and they're trying to stop drinking,
you don't want to pull that into work and announce it.
And people are pretty if you've been a drinker, it's
(34:02):
a hard to make that transition to not being a
drinker without feeling some pressure. People are kind of like, here,
have one, or they know what you're drinking. So it's
nice to be able to have something that you can
that you can have that's a non alcoholic that looks
like it it is, so you just don't even have
to deal with it, engage in a conversation about it,
(34:24):
or or answer questions that make you uncomfortable. So, you know,
people will often do that and say they'll just go
get like a club soda with line so it looks
like they have a cocktail and it's not.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Well. I have to give props to Lookquid Death.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Who Steve if I keep referring to Steve, that's my
husband who he his friend started Liquid Death and it
was it was just a marketing of like everyone's targeting
bottled water to the you know, yoga moms. And he
was like, there's all of this whole population of men
specifically that have stopped drinking, but they're at a bar
(35:01):
and they want to you have something. Yeah, so genius idea.
I should have invested more in that.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I know.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
I think that's one positive thing about the awareness around
alcohol and how many things have changed with not only
mocktails but the can drinks of there's so many different
options now in restaurants, in clubs, in these social settings,
and I think it does help people that whether or
not they have aud it assists them to better facilitate
(35:36):
reaching their goal, whether it be to not drink as
much or to not drink at all.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
And there just may be some nights where one you
don't want to, two you're driving and you're wanting to
not consume alcohol because of that. Maybe you're on some
medication or something you know isn't going to be good
to mix, or you're recovering from some procedure medical medical procedure,
(36:05):
or you're dieting. You know, if you're if you're wanting
to lose weight, alcohol is not going to help you.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Not your friendly.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
It's not your friend. It is empty calories, it's sugar basically,
so it's not your front. So having these alternatives I
think is helpful. And I do think now that people
are a little bit more respectful.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Even these dry.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
January kind of phenomena have been helpful because I think
it gives people that ability to say I'm just taking
a break right now, that's.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Okay, this is why I'm training for something.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
You know, it's it's okay to But if this is
something that's important to you, I always encourage people to
kind of figure out what you want to say and
just have it filed away so you don't have to
give it much thought or worry about it.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Kim, thank you so much. I think we're going to
wrap this up. I know we're out of time here,
but we have part two that will be coming, and
I can't wait for the conversation because Laura and I
have a million more questions. But thank you so much
for joining us today and we will be back with
(37:19):
part two. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Until next time,
Hey everyone, This is Hayley and I'm Laura and welcome
to the body Pod.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today, on the body Pod we have doctor Kimberly Mallett,
who happens to be not only a clinical psychologist but
also a good friend of mine. Doctor Mallett received her
PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Washington in
Seattle and completed her APA approved internship at Harborview Medical
(00:33):
Center in Seattle, Washington. She is a licensed psychologist in
the state of Colorado and a professor at Penn State University,
where she focuses her research on improving the health and
lives of individuals through clinically based interventions. In addition to
working with individuals dealing with a variety of issues such
(00:55):
as depression, anxiety, adjustment to difficult life events, etc. She
has specialized expertise in the treatment of alcohol and substance
related problems and coping with chronic health problems. So we
are here to talk all things women and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Let's dive in. Welcome to the Body Pod.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Doctor Kimberly Mallet is joining us to talk about all
things females and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, duneuons on, you can tell I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
The life of the party.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
When I go to is this a buzzkill episode? Everyone's
like wah wah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Saying I show up at a party for people sitting
next to you like, well, I did want another glass,
but I guess I'll hold off.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
Sometimes sometimes I am that person on the plane that
has to be really careful about what I say I
do to the.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Person next to me when they ask I.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Bet, yeah, you can think about that.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, let's start with this quote to alcohol the cause
of and solution to all of life's problems Homer J.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Simpson.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, I am a massive Simpsons bad So this is
like that says it all right there, it's full circle, right,
full circle.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
We start off, and I think it really represents how
alcohol functions for so many people.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
We start off.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
As younger adults or even teens an experiment.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It's a social facilitator.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
It makes us think that we're being you know, lowers inhibition,
so we can talk to people more easily, we're more
fun and then over time we start to use it
to cope with things. If we go down that road,
and that's going to lead to a lot more problems.
But we see that in younger populations too, and that
is a huge indicator of risk for future problems. If
(03:03):
we see younger people using alcohol to cope with stress,
to unwine, to relax, and it starts a pattern that
really sets us up for potential auds in the future.
AUD means alcohol use disorder And this is like what
you this is your specialty? Yes, So I live two worlds.
(03:26):
So I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm a research professor.
You get trained to do both therapy and research when
you get your PhD in clinical psychology. So for the
past hmm, I'm going to date myself. So I say,
at least thirty years I've been in the field of
alcohol research.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And when I.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
First decided to go into this world, what drew me
to this area is how much of an impact alcohol
makes on our society, both at an individual level, the
people who care about individuals who struggle with alcohol, and
then society as a whole. And when we think about
(04:08):
drunk driving accidents, health we had just physical violence. Alcohol
is a huge problem for so many people and our
society in general. So based on that, I wanted to
be in health in some way and that is really
(04:29):
what stood out to me, and so I started as
an undergraduate and went into graduate school, and ever since
I have actually gone into more prevention work because after
learning about all of this, my research focuses on how
can we prevent people from having these problems in the
(04:49):
first place, Because once you get them, you're dealing with
them for the rest of your life. So if we
can prevent them, that's even better. In my clinical practice,
I do deal with treatment of these issues, So I
deal with working with people to try to help them
get to a place where they can get their life back.
And so I see it full circle.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I see it.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
From the beginning and I see it from the treatment
end as well.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, let's just dive right in to the Surgeon General's
warning that just came out a few days ago. How
timely that the direct link between alcohol and cancer.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Let's just start there.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
Yeah, so alcohol is the third leading cause of cancer.
It's right behind tobacco on obesity. And this is not new.
This has been that way for a long time. It's
not like some new research came out and everyone's floored.
It just never really translated to the public. So I
(05:55):
think we're very well aware of the risk of tobacco.
Smoking causes lung cancer. We've known that for decades now,
but alcohol, we just have a very different relationship to it.
I think what's startling about these findings is that people
(06:20):
think alcohol, of course, is problematic when you use an
excess of it, when you used too much. So we
think about it around liver disease, and we know it's
not good for a cardiovascular system, all these other things
are affected by it. But even lower amounts of alcohol
increase our risk for cancer. And that's what I think
(06:43):
people really need to pay attention to, is no amount
of alcohol is deemed safe.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Buzz.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I know, I'm terrible.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I have to tell you this was I was just
telling Laura this before you jumped on. So I was
down in November at a conference, a women's health conference
with doctor Vonda Wright and all of these leaders in
the in the mental PAS space were there and this
came up multiple times in multiple speakers, you know, in
(07:22):
what they were addressing. And I was telling Laura, this
was the first time in my life where I went
to this kind of sit down, very intimate, private dinner
and they served mocktels like there wasn't alcohol anywhere, and I.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Just like it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
It's just like you're so used to just seeing it
at any event, any event. I remember when we moved
here and Steve was working for you know, an advertising
agency here, and even like the kids Halloween party, and
they would do all these like kids, you know, your
kids to work day and they'd have all these massive
(08:02):
parties for the kids, just fun stuff. But then every
like there was just alcohol for the adults during the day.
And I was like, well, this is the Halloween hit
party you guys.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Are at work. I mean it's like, you.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Know, has it gotten out of control? I mean, it's
just those are a few things that I've noticed, just
with my limited experience.
Speaker 6 (08:28):
I would say, yeah, And that is really what we
have to remember is there is a huge behavioral component
with alcohol use, and we associate it with so many
social events and celebratory is a huge piece of it,
going out to dinner, being in a restaurant. I mean,
(08:49):
there's a lot of societal pressure when we get together
to drink alcohol. And that's why it's I think, really
hard to wrap our heads around how is this so
bad for us? You know, what is this doing to
our body? And now I am going to caveat this
and say I'm not going to tell people to be
(09:11):
abstinate there. I think there are ways to be healthy
and include alcohol, but I think it really demands some
intention about it. And that's what strikes me about these
findings is it's really drawing our attention to being careful
and track how much we drink and being aware of
(09:34):
what we're drinking and picking when we do it, not
getting into patterns of it having to happen all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
With all of these gatherings, that.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Was one of the questions I was going to ask
you that Haley and I were also speaking about before
you hopped on is I wanted to ask you if
what your thought is around people that say, Okay, I'm
going to be completely obstinate and never to and alcohol again,
because from a psychologist standpoint, do you find that that
(10:04):
gets people in trouble sometimes to completely say I'm never
going to do it again instead of having intention or
good a good relationship with it.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
It depends on the person. There are a lot of
people who choose to be abstinate for a variety of reasons.
Some are proactive because maybe they have a strong family history,
maybe they have certain risk factors, certain health issues, remember
if we're taking a lot of medications, and I can
(10:41):
kind of touch on that down the road with some
of these other topics I know you want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
But.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
There are certain health reasons, certain psychological reasons, and family
history reasons. The other piece is if someone does have
a problem and they've crossed what I call the line
in the sand of then going into dependence physical dependence,
they really can't drink alcohol anymore because their relationship with it,
(11:13):
it's just not possible to have a healthy one. So
if someone and I think what you're getting at, Laura,
is if someone is just at war with themselves, like
I have to be abstinate, but I don't really want
to be.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
So there's a lack of motivation.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
Well, i'd say, you know what, I'd want to understand
what that motivation is. Do they want to drink? Are
there certain situations that might allow for it in their mind?
You don't have to completely give it up. I think
what this is getting at the Surgeon General's report and
some of what we're seeing come out of Canada, which
(11:51):
is the whole country has basically taken the stance of
we really can't say any amount of alcohol is safe,
and we do that with certain populations here pregnant women,
we say no amount of alcohol is safe to drink
while you're pregnant, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say that for adults.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Without dependency issues or who aren't pregnant, and we do
give guidelines, but it's really something you have to examine yourself.
And I think if people start to question is my
relationship with alcohol healthy, it might not be. And so
that's when you want to just take account of are
(12:32):
there changes that need to be made and where am
I struggling? And really, what I'd say is that drinking
to cope piece is kind of that.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Red flag for a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
If that if you find yourself thinking I need a
drink right now, that's what for me raises my red
flag is Okay, some thing's not okay. We shouldn't be
drinking to cope because that's a sign of a larger issue.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
What about the research that showed alcohol had some health benefits.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, let's add some light.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
The reality is a lot of physicians that just don't
concur with that, and there's many reasons for that. Just
the way the studies were done, there could be a
lot of confounds. So basically what they found, I think
we're talking about red wine and heart health. Okay, so
(13:35):
they're looking at the antioxidants and red wine. There's a
lot of other things that could be going on there
in terms of potentially red wine drinkers also engage in
other healthier habits and healthier diets in general, so we
can't really attribute causation there. What we can say though,
(13:57):
is that the benefits don't outweigh the risk here. So
you can get antioxidants in a lot of other places.
Never ever, ever have I heard a doctor, or imagine
a doctor said to a patient, Hey, how much are
you drinking?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Nothing?
Speaker 6 (14:15):
You might want to start, you know, it doesn't happen,
and so exercise, diet, taking supplements, you know, drinking grape juice.
I don't care. Just it doesn't have to be fermented.
So yeah, I know, but I know that we want
it to be good. And that's the thing, is it
(14:37):
be great if we had positive effects from it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Bias, Right, we'll find this Well, this study says that
it's healthy, so exactly.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Yeah, and and there's just so many other issues too
where it people struggle it again, the risk outwagh, the
benefits because you're still getting the alcohol. And that being said,
what we know about alcohol itself is.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It is a toxic.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
I mean, it can infiltrate. It's a central nervous system depressant.
The reason it affects so many of our systems, our, liver, cancer,
all these things cardiovascular is because it has a wide reach.
A lot of other drugs act on certain eurotransmitters. Well,
alcohol doesn't discriminate. It hits all of them. I mean,
(15:33):
it just goes for it. And so it's very, very powerful.
And because it's such an integral part of our society
and it's accepted, people don't give it the respect that
it deserves as a drug.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
That's really true.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I never thought about it that way about yeah me either.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, so if people are like, okay, but I'm
still going to drink a little bit, what would your
recommendation be, Because that's the question that I'm sure a
lot of women are thinking right now while they're listening.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Yeah, So I'll and I'll be very forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I do drink.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
I'm not an abstainer myself, so I do try. I
am right now though. So I have some interesting insights
on flee but but I'm just taking the whole dry
January thing, and because I know you very well, Hayley,
I'm doing a little series of not really fat loss,
(16:34):
but that's the goal. I'm coming off a surgery, so
I need to get back in shape. So alcohol is
the easiest thing to cut out of our diet to
cut calories that we don't need. But what are our
guidance for healthy drinking parameters? Just so you know, I'm
gonna I'm going to talk about that, but they are
(16:55):
kind of up for reassessment, which they periodically get reassessed,
so I wouldn't be surprised based on the surge in
general's statement that and recommendations that they might get reevaluated,
so they may come out with new ones. Stay tuned,
Stay tuned. So here's what they currently are for women.
(17:17):
The guidance is seven drinks or less a week. That
being said, these are standardized drinks. And I'm very clear
about this because what we know and a lot of
the data that we collect in our studies, people are
notorious about underestimating the amount that they drink because it's
(17:41):
not a standard drink. Isn't that much, especially if you're
drinking cocktails or mixed drinks. It can be really challenging.
And so for example, a bottle of wine is five
drinks and a lot of people think it's four, but
there's actually five drinks in a normal bottle of wine.
(18:02):
So that's just what we're working with here. The other
caveat about that is you really don't want to drink
ever to access, so you don't want to pile up
and drink four drinks in a day if you're a female,
and you don't want to get that blood alcohol level
too high, which you would do if you're drinking more
(18:22):
in a concentrated time frame. So they really don't want
you to binge drink. And that's for women for or
more drinks in a two hour time frame. For men,
it's fourteen drinks a week. Yeah, and there are a
lot of physiological reasons why this is the case, but
(18:46):
so that's the parameter that we're working with. So if
you think about it, that's a if you're drinking a
glass of wine a night, that's it, right, that's one
drink a day. And if you want to have a
couple drinks on the weekend, so you kind of start
to have to be strategic. You want to stay within
(19:07):
these guidelines about when you drink. So certain things that
I think are helpful are not drinking every single day,
taking breaks in the week of where you just don't
drink anything. But again, don't load up and save for
the weekend, because it's we don't want to see people
getting that blood alcohol concentration too high.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And yes, this is so fascinating. So we just talked
to Kristen Holmes. I saw her and met her for
the first time at a conference and she's actually coming
on my Fat Loss Happens course, and she talked all
about the female the gender differences with alcohol. So just
(19:53):
another thing, can you just review some of those differences
between men and women.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
Yeah, before I go on, I do want to say
this because we just talked about how much is safe
to consume and there are a lot of mixed findings.
So the World Health Organization, I do want to point
this out because I think you're getting a lot of
information from different sources. They're taking the stance again like
(20:19):
Canada did, that there is no safe amount and they're
actually labeling alcohol as a carcinogen in the same category
as tobacco, radiation and asbestos.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Do they put the death that like cross with the
skull on it?
Speaker 6 (20:34):
I don't know, you know, they want these labels on it.
I don't know what those labels are going to look like.
But my guess is it's justs in general.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
So there's not stolen cross bus.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I swear that was on like Looney Tunes or I
don't know, like a something.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah, So moving on.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Moving on.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Also as a resource, though we just talked about drink sizes.
This is a complicated topic and so I think there
is a great resource if people are interested. It's a
website that National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism puts
out called Rethinking Drinking. So it's by Anti Triple A
(21:15):
and they have a lot of great resources about how
to just compute your own VAC, what a standard drink sizes,
some of these guidelines about healthy drinking. So it's I
think a helpful resource. All right, men and women? So
why is it that women get the short end of
(21:37):
the stick here? And biology is really a big factor.
So when we calculate blood alcohol concentration, so when I
say bled alcohol concentration, a lot of people associate that
with our legal limit to drive. Right, just point oh eight.
And that's what we're talking about. So we take in
(22:00):
to sert into account for things. We take in the
amount of alcohol you've consumed, how long you've taken to
consume it, and your gender, And why am I forgetting
forgetting one of the things.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
But it's a gender.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Well it's the fact that my dog would have had
me at path to night, so yeah, fun or that,
But it's it's this weight.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Sorry, it's weight, so weight.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Gender, amount of alcohol, time to consume, and those are
really what goes into it. But gender is a big factor.
And the reason is women have a lower so the
enzyme that breaks down alcohol in our system, we have
lower amounts, so it's called alcohol dehydrogenase, and women don't
(22:55):
have as much of it as men, so we don't
break down alcohol as quickly as men do. It's stays
in our system longer, right, Keep that in mind for
what I'm about to say. The other thing is women
typically way less than men weights accounted for, but women
have higher rates of body fat and lower rates of alcohol.
(23:19):
Are water and alcohol is water soluble, so in our
system it's think about like dilution. Men do that better
than women. So it's more concentrated in women's systems. This
is why it's just it's it's more powerful, and you're
seeing a lot of more negative effects health wise for women.
(23:43):
So even if a man, a male, and female weigh
the same amount, a woman is not going to process
alcohol is quickly as a man. She's going to have
a higher BAC and be more intoxicated if she drinks
the same amount.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I've got life. I make it to the gates one day. Frustrating.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Yeah, the problem, the really big issue is there used
to be a huge gender gap between males and females
in the amount of alcohol they consumed, especially in younger populations,
so we would see that males would drink a lot
more than females. What's happening and what we're seeking our
own data is this is narrowing dramatically. So women are
(24:30):
keeping up more and that's.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
A big deal because you're.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
Seeing and hearing about all these health risks and that
is going we don't I mean, that's going to play
the long game. But they're also experiencing a lot of
acute consequences, so blackouts, sexual assaults, all of these acute
terrible consequences because they're drinking heavily.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Is this at a certain stage range? That's why I
was assuming, but I just wanted to make sure.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
Okay, yeah, yeah, So these these gender gaps are narrowing
in certain populations, even in some older populations as well.
So you start to think about as we age, women
are typically in that you know, later twenties, thirties, even forties,
(25:26):
dealing with kids. They got a lot going on. But
then kids grow up and then they have more time
and we'll talk about more of those other things that
can lead to drinking. But drinking starts to make a
little bit more of a comeback again, So those gender
gaps start to narrow.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Okay, speaking of that, how does aging and menopause affect
alcohol use and problems in women?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
So you're gonna love it.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
I know, I'm already magic throw it out us.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
First, and this is going to probably be a broken record,
seeing is you talk a lot about women's health. Guess
what the research needs to catch up? You know, traditionally
a lot more research has been done on men because
alcohol use disorder has been more prevalent in men. But
what we're starting to see is that especially in North
(26:27):
America and some European countries, women make up forty percent
of substance abuse addiction type of behaviors, and so there
used to be predominantly men, whereas women again are catching up,
so these things start to present more in this age group.
(26:49):
So remember, chronic issues often take a long time to evolve.
They're a pattern of behavior over time, and when they
start getting dist when they start creating a lot of
noticeable problems and people start addressing them, is around fifty
five sixty in some studies.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Oh wow, that surprises me.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
That's late.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Doesn't mean that's always the case. But they're happening at
all age groups. But we're also seeing younger people come,
you know, present with a lot of aud issues that
they're not maturing out of. So a lot of college
students have abuse of drinking patterns, which is considered an
ad but they mature out, they don't progress to dependency.
(27:36):
And so over time, though, if you maintain heavy drinking patterns,
you're going to some point develop into that if you
don't change, so or you're likely to. I shouldn't say
you necessarily will, but you're you're much more likely to.
So as we get older in age, you may cut
(27:57):
back a little when your kids are younger and you're
busy or your job's really busy. But once things may
be slow down a little bit, drinking sometimes can make
a comeback. So that's one piece. We're also seeing that
here you go, Hayley, this is why. So take a
(28:20):
woman that's say, menopausal, compared to a younger woman, all
things being equal weight, amount of alcohol consumed, the older
woman they're finding has higher BAC.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, why is that?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Well, what would you guess?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Lower lean mass, muscles.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Yeah, that's a big very lower. We lose muscle mass,
gain body fat. Remember, body fat puts us at a
disadvantage for alcohol processing. The other thing to remember here
is as we age, our liver doesn't work as well.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
This is fascinating.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
Yeah, so our liver doesn't process alcohol, you know, it's
just it's everything slower. And we start taking more medications
as we age. So now you've got this potential of
having interaction effects with drugs or competition for the liver
(29:29):
to process it, because a lot of medication we take
is process through the liver. Yeah, so this is why
you may have heard of this. You don't want to
take Thailand all a receipta menafin if you've been drinking.
(29:50):
Do not take both of those together because it puts
a lot of it's hard for me.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
This is learning.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
That's a lot of tip takeaway for sure. Okay, it's
good to know.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So okay, so we have these, but there's also this
is a time when a lot of couples split up,
or you have a a partner that passes, or you
have parents that pass.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
And so I'm sure that adds to the psychological you know,
just the crutch. Yes, so here's the drinking the cope
kind of keys where you know. Alcohol, So let's not
Let's make no mistake about it. Alcohol is very reinforcing
in a lot of ways, right It it when we
(30:48):
drink it our brain because it acts on so many
of our reward pathways in our brain, it makes us
want more. And in the beginning, again it's it's this
is a whole other topic. You kind of get out
of alcohol what you go into it with. So it's
going to emphasize the mood you're already experiencing or your
(31:12):
expectancy of what it's going to do for you. So
the problem, though, is people start to use it. Tonumb
again to kind of have that relaxation. They associate it
with okay, anxiety. It can kind of ramp me down,
(31:32):
but it also can make us tune out if we're
dealing with a lot of challenges. So, yes, depression can
come up in menopausal women. We see increased rates of
that coming up for menopausal women and preparing menopausal women.
And so if we're trying to manage our mood with
(31:54):
alcohol or feel better because it used to make us
feel better right when we go out and have fun
or go to a party, it's not going to do
that if you enter drinking feeling down because alcohol is
a depressant, so it's going to make you feel more depressed.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
The clubs and bars are hating this trend.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I have to say though, there's so there's also
this social aspect which you've kind of touched on. But
I just like this memory just popped up of the
first time that Steve and I went on a cruise
before we had children, and it was Carnival Cruise Line,
which I think is like known for like the.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Party cruise Line.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We didn't know and we weren't drinking, but we get
on this ship and the whole time from sun up
eight o'clock party, like playing the music. I mean it's
almost like these all inclusive events. Nobody knows how to
not include it. You go to an all inclusive and like,
that's what people love about it.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
You got to get your money's worth.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, yeah, so they were thinking that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
But like all of this, it's interesting to see if
we pulled it all away, like tomorrow it was all gone,
what would it would be such a hard transition for
like companies and the parties, and just like we've had
it in everyone's social gatherings really, I mean the majority
(33:18):
of them for anything.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Yeah, So I think what you described earlier is this
idea of giving people alternatives the mocktails. So when I'm
working with someone who is making that conscious choice to
stop drinking, that's a big thing that comes up, especially
if they're in a professional world that involves a lot
(33:41):
of networking and events and now they don't drink anymore
because and again they don't really want to save people.
Why because if they have if they feel they have
a problem with alcohol and they're trying to stop drinking,
you don't want to pull that into work and announce it.
And people are pretty if you've been a drinker, it's
(34:02):
a hard to make that transition to not being a
drinker without feeling some pressure. People are kind of like, here,
have one, or they know what you're drinking. So it's
nice to be able to have something that you can
that you can have that's a non alcoholic that looks
like it it is, so you just don't even have
to deal with it, engage in a conversation about it,
(34:24):
or or answer questions that make you uncomfortable. So, you know,
people will often do that and say they'll just go
get like a club soda with line so it looks
like they have a cocktail and it's not.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Well. I have to give props to Lookquid Death.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Who Steve if I keep referring to Steve, that's my
husband who he his friend started Liquid Death and it
was it was just a marketing of like everyone's targeting
bottled water to the you know, yoga moms. And he
was like, there's all of this whole population of men
specifically that have stopped drinking, but they're at a bar
(35:01):
and they want to you have something. Yeah, so genius idea.
I should have invested more in that.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I know.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
I think that's one positive thing about the awareness around
alcohol and how many things have changed with not only
mocktails but the can drinks of there's so many different
options now in restaurants, in clubs, in these social settings,
and I think it does help people that whether or
not they have aud it assists them to better facilitate
(35:36):
reaching their goal, whether it be to not drink as
much or to not drink at all.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
And there just may be some nights where one you
don't want to, two you're driving and you're wanting to
not consume alcohol because of that. Maybe you're on some
medication or something you know isn't going to be good
to mix, or you're recovering from some procedure medical medical procedure,
(36:05):
or you're dieting. You know, if you're if you're wanting
to lose weight, alcohol is not going to help you.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Not your friendly.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
It's not your friend. It is empty calories, it's sugar basically,
so it's not your front. So having these alternatives I
think is helpful. And I do think now that people
are a little bit more respectful.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Even these dry.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
January kind of phenomena have been helpful because I think
it gives people that ability to say I'm just taking
a break right now, that's.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Okay, this is why I'm training for something.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
You know, it's it's okay to But if this is
something that's important to you, I always encourage people to
kind of figure out what you want to say and
just have it filed away so you don't have to
give it much thought or worry about it.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Kim, thank you so much. I think we're going to
wrap this up. I know we're out of time here,
but we have part two that will be coming, and
I can't wait for the conversation because Laura and I
have a million more questions. But thank you so much
for joining us today and we will be back with
(37:19):
part two. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Until next time,
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