April 17, 2025 • 42 mins
(00:00:00) Zone 2 Training, Rep Ranges, & Time-Restricted Eating for Women with Dr. Stacy Sims
(00:01:40) Zone 2 Training
(00:16:47) Rep ranges
(00:22:35) Time-restricted eating
In this episode, Hailey is joined by friend and business partner Dr. Stacy Sims to answer three of the most common questions from their Power Happens community.
They break down:
- Optimal rep ranges for women’s strength training
- The science behind HIIT/SIT workouts vs. Zone 2 training
- The key differences between intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating
Whether you're training smarter, optimizing energy, or navigating nutrition timing, this episode delivers science-backed strategies tailored for women.
Listen in—and share with someone who trains like you do.
(00:01:40) Zone 2 Training
(00:16:47) Rep ranges
(00:22:35) Time-restricted eating
In this episode, Hailey is joined by friend and business partner Dr. Stacy Sims to answer three of the most common questions from their Power Happens community.
They break down:
- Optimal rep ranges for women’s strength training
- The science behind HIIT/SIT workouts vs. Zone 2 training
- The key differences between intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating
Whether you're training smarter, optimizing energy, or navigating nutrition timing, this episode delivers science-backed strategies tailored for women.
Listen in—and share with someone who trains like you do.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, This is Haley and I'm Laura and welcome
to the body Pod. Okay, Today on the Body Pod,
I get to speak in person with doctor Stacy Simms
and break down the most commonly asked questions that we
get about Zone too training, are their benefits and how
(00:22):
much should we do intermittent fasting versus time restricted eating,
as well as the rep ranges that I have programmed
in our power programs. This is a very open conversation
about accepting women coming into strength and cardio training at
all levels of fitness and taking the time that is
needed to build up safely to harder training styles. We
finish this conversation with the message that there is a
(00:45):
place for everyone and the desire to empower women to
do what works for them, as well as a reminder
that recommendations can and should be altered to fit your
individual lifestyles, your ability level, and your preferences. Let's get
into the show. Welcome back to the Body Pod in person.
(01:09):
Hi so excited to have you here and to be
doing this today. So I wanted to touch on the
three main questions that we get every single day. So
I'm sure your email is flooded as is mine and
our DMS and in our groups about zone two training,
time restricted, eating, and REP ranges.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So we're gonna dive in deep. Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Let's good.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, So let's start with the zone two training. So
I think the message has been blown out of proportion
that you're saying no zone two. Ever, what is your
response to that.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Zone two is something that you can do. I'm not
anti zone two, my God, just put that out there.
Not anti zone two. But when we look at time
management for one and two, where the data is coming
from to show that zone two improves metabolic flexibility, it's
based on male physiology.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So I'll unpack that a bit.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
When we are looking at sex differences, there are sex
differences that are from birth.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Actually they begin in utero.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And one of those inherent sex differences are the type
of muscle fibers that women and men have.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
So we have things.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Called glycolytic that's our fast twitch, and we have oxidative,
which is our slow endurant type fibers. Women by the
nature of XX, because we don't have anything outside of
the binary XY for men and XX for women. Women
by the nature being XX are born with more of
the endurant oxidative fibers. With that, they also have better
(02:56):
mitochondria density, they have better mitochondrial proteins that allow for.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Fuel to be used.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
By the cells, and we have less of those fast
twitched fibers as compared to men. So how that feeds
forward to training in the everyday person is when we're
looking at all the information out there about zone two
to improve metabolic flexibility, to improve your oxidative capacity. It's
(03:24):
based on the male data where men have to do
more of that zone two to improve the oxidative fibers
that they have. But for us women, we already have
metabolic flexibility. It's inherent because across our menstrual cycle, we're
switching between a preference for carbohydrate and fat, and that's
(03:47):
an offshoot of the exposure of estrogen and to some
extent progesterone that our body has on a monthly cycle. So,
by the nature of saying everyone needs zone too, do
zone two, it's a misstep for women.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So I'm not saying don't do it.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
We can do it for our soul food, we can
do it for you know, stress release, We can do
it as a chat as we're going for a walk
with our friends. But there isn't the precedence that women
have to spend so much time.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Doing Zone two.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So if we look at the recommendations that are coming
out about zone two training, they're saying between forty five
and ninety minutes, four to five times a week.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Oh right, who has time for that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Nobody has that time, right, So we.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Look at optimizing women's health and longevity. So we're not
trained for anything specific. We're not training for a marathon
or an iron Man or one hundred mile bike ride.
That's a different kettle of fish. So if we're training
for health and longevity, we want to improve women's glycolytic fibers.
(04:54):
We lose them rapidly as we age. But the other
really critical thing for longevity is being able to produce lactate.
So lactate is the metabolic byproduct of fast twitch and
anaerobic capacity. It's a critical fuel for the brain. The
(05:15):
brain prefers lactate, so does the heart. If we don't
produce lactate and we are amiss in how much that
we are producing, then our brain metabolism changes and it
relies more on glucose. When we're looking at it from
a health perspective, it doesn't seem like that big of
a deal because your brain is still working optimally. But
(05:38):
when we're looking at sex differences in cognitive decline, we're
looking at sex differences in alzheimer development, and all of
this is coming out, we see that not only is
it a sociocultural thing where women who are now experiencing
Alzheimer's dementia and cognitive decline didn't have the availability of
(05:58):
fast paced kind of jobs that are now available, so
we already have a little bit of decline in that.
But from a metabolic standpoint, lactate isn't happening. We're not
having lactate metabolism, so we're not having the neurons connecting
very well. We're not having glial cells working optimally. So
it contributes to the sex difference in cognitive decline. So
(06:22):
when we pull it back and say what is optimal
for women who are time pressed wanting to have good
body composition, really good metabolic health, as well as looking
after our brains. So when we're seventy eighty ninety one
hundred years old, we still have all our faculties. It's
looking at polarizing our training where we are putting in
(06:43):
true high intensity work, we're putting in proper strength training
because that also helps with brain health.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And when we want.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
To have our soul food, we go out and we
have our soul food, but it's not the bread.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And butter of what we do.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Women do better from an aging perspective of peppering in
more high intensity.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And less volume.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Men, on the other hand, as they get older, they
need more metabolic flexibility, so yes, they need to do
the zone two. They need to improve their oxidative capacity,
they need to improve their mitochondria density, which means their
body is able to use free fatty acids. Well, but
for women, we're already there by the nature of being XX.
This is why I'm always like, you don't have to
(07:27):
spend all this time doing zone two. If you are
an endurance athlete, then yes you do, because you need
that base volume in order to be able to raise
one hundred miles or finish a marathon. But for the
general woman who's looking to optimize health and fitness and longevity,
you don't have to put so much time into that
(07:48):
zone two training.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Okay, So, for example, for someone that is starting out
and they have they've not been regularly exercising than and
would it be appropriate for them to go straight into
high intensity interval training or would you phase them in.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Just like anything, like, all movement is good, and so
if you're just starting out, then you want to move
right and you might hit a higher intensity because your
body's not used to moving, and you might go for
a walk and hit an incline and then all of
a sudden you're in a higher intensity. But over the
course of a couple of weeks, that hill's going to
flatten out for you. It's not going to feel hard.
(08:31):
So we want you to just enjoy and learn how
to move before we start putting in any kind of
high intensity. And then it could be you're going on
your twenty or thirty minute walk and you deviate and
do some flights of stairs on your walk, or maybe
you increase your pace of it. So there's ways of
phasing in high intensity, and it's relative, and the fitter
(08:52):
you get, the more that intensity comes into running sprints
or battle ropes or kettlebell swings, the things that we
talk about on a regular basis. But anyone can start
just start by moving, and then you can vary your
intensity in your preferred mode, and it doesn't have to
be something that's really really focused in a gym. It
(09:14):
can be I'm going to go up this hill and
I'm going to do thirty second hill reps. And it
could be walking, could be running, it could be power
walking something like that, and that will get you on
the road to doing and getting used to higher intensity work.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, So I think this is where and you just
covered this a second ago. I think the conversation is
getting muddled out there when women are feeling like there's
a barrier to exercise because they think there's only one
specific way to exercise. And what I hear you saying
is there's different modes that do different things. But our time,
(09:52):
at this age, we want to really put in some
of those high intensity intervals and those sprint intervals. But
there is a phase in and if you are new
to exercise it, it's totally appropriate to start there and
then ramp up and start peppering in some of those
hit sessions before you go full throttle.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, because I don't want someone to have the experience
that a lot of kids have where kids are really
active and having fun and then they're put into like
a pe class that makes them do running or makes
them do something that they really don't like, and they
get a really negative attitude around physical activity. When we
are looking at adults who haven't been moving and they
(10:33):
want to start their journey, we want it to be
a positive reinforcement. So is it ten minutes walking for
three times a week at the start? That's better than nothing, right,
So we look at phasing people in just like strength training.
We're not going to throw someone in the gym and
have them do a hundred kilo deadlift or anything like that, right, No, no, no,
(10:54):
we phase everyone in. So I don't want people to
think that there's this barrier because they're not fit enough
or they're not confident enough. We did a study back
when I was at Stanford looking at pre fitness fitness,
So what are the barriers to exercise? And one of
them is, well, we know lack of community, but also
(11:15):
the uncomfortable aspect of heat and sweating. So we did
some pretty cooling and taking away that one barrier allowed
women to develop a fitness level that gave them the
confidence to go out and join a class, or join
a gym, or go out and do a hill instead,
So we have to look at the barriers as well. So, yeah,
(11:36):
we can drink something cool for the heat aspect. But also,
if you have ownership with a friend and you both
want to start out on this journey, you're not going
to tell your friend, Okay, do thirty second sprints, right,
So you want to have some of that ownership as well.
It's like, what would you tell your friend if your
friend is wanting to start on this journey. So you
(11:57):
are your friend and maybe you have that commonality of
calling your friend up and saying, hey, let's meet for
ten or fifteen minutes and go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
All right, So Stacy, can you define zone two training?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And are there benefits to zone two training?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, So when we're looking to quantify intensity and stress
on the body, we look at different zones. We have
zone one, two, three, four, five, Some people say six,
and some companies are now saying zero and zero has
been zero has not been quantified in sports science, so
we don't pay attention to that. Zone two is going
(12:39):
out and having a conversational pace where you're still like
breathing hard, your heart rate is elevated, but it's not
overly taxing you.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Can do it for a very long period of time.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
The benefit of zone two is it's cardiovascular health, right,
So we are increasing our heart rate, We're creating more
of a muscle pump, so we're stimulating cardiac muscle. We're
improving our blood flow, and of course stress release.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
It's lower intensity, it's not too taxing in the body.
We don't have a lot of quartersol that's released, so
we're looking at it as a stress reliever. It's really
good for improving our cardiovascular health, which then improves blood
flow for men and improves metabolic flexibility for women. Were
I mean, it does use more free fatty acids because
(13:28):
it's lower intensity, but it doesn't invoke the same metabolic
flexibility that we see with men.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Okay, so I use it. I'm curious your thoughts on this.
I will use it if I have a one on
one client and they're in, you know a little bit
of a calorie deficet that we're watching and they just
aren't recovering as well on lower calories.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So I'll use it as a recovery.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Day and something that they can look forward to where
they don't have to smash themselves, you know, in that
hour and maybe instead of the choice of not working
out that they would go out for zone too, So
that would be an appropriate.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I mean there are times when I
travel a lot, right, and the Transmorrinian travel is a nightmare,
But I want to get outside and move every day.
I'm not going to go do a hit session every day.
I'm not going to go smash myself in the gym
every day. So there are times where I'm like, I
just want to move and it is zoned too, and
I'm not necessarily trained for anything, but it's movement, it's outside,
(14:25):
it's waking me up, it's making me feel good, and yeah,
there is a bit of a calorie burn, but it
also works for recovery, for resetting circadian rhythm, for just
allowing the body.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Just to go, oh okay great.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
So it is a really massive stress relieving response. So
it creates a cascade of hormonal responses to just allow
the body to get more parasympathetic.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And so yes, it's really beneficial for recovery.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And I love, love, love our zone two rights that
we've got on, I know, to catch up, So can
you describe blactate? Is that something do we get the
same benefit from strength training with the lactate that's moving
in the body, or is that a separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It depends on what kind of strength training we're doing.
So when we're looking at how the body fuels itself,
it's not a linear progression of ATPCP right into fat burning.
We're always kind of using everything all the time. When
we get to a precedence of lactate production, it means
that we are at a level of intensity where it's
(15:34):
too hard for the body to be able to take
some of the breakdown components of carbohydrate and pull it
into aerobic exercise. So if we're looking at strength training
and we're doing a circuit like every minute on the
minute using kettlebells or something like that, then we're producing lactate.
(15:54):
If we're doing a typical heavier lifting session, that's not
lactate production. That's ATPC, and we are using a little
bit of glucose because we get into that, but we're
not at a level where a body can't regenerate fast enough.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So when we're looking.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
At the availability of fuel, when we're looking at the
higher loads, lower volume type, so you're heavier lifting, that
is not lack tap production if we're looking at a
circuit or we're looking at a metabolic stimulus of higher
higher reps. So we're doing the twenty or whatever to failure,
(16:31):
which isn't that appropriate for our group of women? That
can be LAC tap production. But it also depends on
how much rest is between the sets.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
So let's move on to the rep ranges.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And when we launched our first power programs, I know
we wrote the program together and we put it out
to the.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
World, and I know there was a lot of chatter and.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Confusion about there are some hyperchurvy blocks in there.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
There's max strength blocks for the beginner.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Obviously, there's no low rep heavy lifting, and we have
higher reps in that to really.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Teach them how to move.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But it was it's very confusing to women when they'll
come into our programs and they'll say, well, Stacy wants
me to only lift low reps heavyweight.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, why do I have higher reps in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah, there's there's a misconception I think in the fitness
world where if you're going to do strength trending, you
can't do any cardio. If you're doing cardio, you shouldn't
do strength training, especially heavy loads.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
If you are going to do strength training.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Then you should just lift heavy in a power based
and you shouldn't do hypperchaffee or you should just do
hyghpercha feed to failure. But there's a it's not a
linear progression of things. We have to look at completely
altering and changing things up as we go. So when
we're looking at the higher reps and the lower loads
(18:01):
in the beginning program, it's.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Because one we don't want injury. Two we want people
to learn how to move properly.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
How do you squat? What is your depth? What are
your sticking points? Do we have to work on mobility?
How's your core strength? Because we're not going to put
you under load if you are a bindi and not
like a bamboo straw.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
So when we're.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Looking at how the body responds to it, your body
responds to load and it doesn't matter if it's higher
low load. But what kind of adaptations do we want.
That's why we want to build women into lifting heavier
in the power based stuff, but not staying in that
high loading and lower rep range for the rest of
(18:43):
their life. Right, we need to have a periodization, which
is what you're so great at doing and prescribing in
the programs. So we build up and then we work
on our max strength, and then we have a recovery dload.
Maybe we're doing some higher reps there, maybe we're doing
some cluster sets, we're doing some ballistic movements, and then
we can rebuild because part of it is we want
(19:04):
that central nervous system response to actually take the place
of estrogen to build the.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Lean mass in the bone.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
But then we also want to have different stimulus so
that the neuromuscular connections also are having a challenge instead
of just always recruiting as many muscle fibers as possible. Yes,
And I think people get confused when they're like, wait,
I just want to lift heavy. First, we need to
make sure your body's really stress resilient enough to take
(19:34):
on those loads. And as you're taking those loads on,
we have to back it off a little so that
you can become more stress resilient.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And I think what I love that you just said
is to be able to give women the freedom to say, listen, one,
there's no possible way that we could come up with
one program that would cover everything, and that would be
suitable every single female and their specific situation. So the
(20:03):
goal really is, as we get women into strength training,
and I would love to hear your point on this
as well, is to come in at the level that
you are comfortable doing. And yes we want to push you,
and yes, at some point we want to mix in
these lower lower rep ranges or mid rep ranges, but
it's a different purpose. If you have an injury, maybe
(20:25):
you're not doing low reps for X amount of months
while you're recovering, or you know, if you're trying to
work on some stability muscles that require a bit of
time to stabilize, then maybe you're doing some higher reps there.
But that's not where we're staying in those you know,
twenty thirty rep ranges. Now, I just did a foundation
(20:46):
program where I did do you know, twenty twenty five reps,
but it was once a year and it was for
three weeks.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So it's not something that I stay in.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
But the fusion of the science and real life coaching
is meant to be tailored, especially when you're selling online
programs where we don't have this one on one connection
with women. Our goal for everyone is to not get
(21:15):
injured to fall in love with strength training and to
just keep at it so that we do have this
good quality of life through hopefully seventies, eighties, and nineties.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yes, exactly, because there's so many women. I get asked
all the time, where do I start. I don't feel
comfortable going to a gym. It's so gendered.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
We know this.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You walk into any big brand gym and as a woman,
they're like, oh, there are the cardio machines.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
As a guy, you're talking.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
They're lifting platforms back there, and we have XYZ strength equipment,
so women are intimidated to go into that. So one
of the goals that we have is to make it accessible.
If you have a program and you can go into
gym and there's someone on the app to show you
what to do and how to do things, it boots
the confidence. I've seen women in gyms on our app
(22:02):
working out together and I love it.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It's great. And you know, so I see that. It
also brings in house.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Community, yes, as well as the community that we're developing online.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yes, and Stacy, you are the pioneer in this space
and everyone will we'll give you that title. So we're
super grateful if we move on from the rep ranges
and the third question that I want to really bring
up in this confusion space of intermittent fasting and time
(22:34):
restricted eating. Now, I know where you stand on the
time restricted eating, but most women are getting confused on
whether intermint fasting and time restricted eating are the same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Are they the same thing? And what do we recommend?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They are definitely not the same thing. So we look
at interminute fasting. There's lots of different avenues to take
when we're.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Looking at intern in it fasting.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
We look at holding your fast till noon or after
and so you have like a four hour eating window,
and in that four hour eating window there are no
real restrictions on what you're eating. We see some people
are doing a twelve twelve where they are twelve hour
overnight fast and twelve hours of eating window. Again no
(23:22):
real confines around what they're eating in that twelve hour
You could have a sixteen hour fast. So with inter
minute fasting, there's no real identification of circadian rhythm. We're
looking at time restricted eating. We're looking at fueling the
body when it needs to be fueled and then having
(23:43):
an overnight fast. So time restricted would be you get
up and as a woman, you're having breakfast or not
full breakfast, with something to eat within like a half
an hour after you wake up to drop your cortisol
signal to hypothalamus that there's some nutrition coming in. And
then maybe you go training, then you come home, have
your real breakfast, and then you're eating on regular like
(24:06):
you're having your meals and your snacks, and then you
have dinner and you don't have anything after dinner. You
stop eating with dinner being over. So it might be
six seven, seven thirty at night, so you have around
two hours before bed, and then you have a twelve
hour It could even be a fourteen hour fast because
you stop eating at seven thirty and maybe you don't
(24:28):
get up if you're lucky enough, till nine, and then
you have something at nine thirty. But most people can
do an eleven or twelve hour fast every night, and
that's what we call time restricted eating.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, So then time restricted eating is the same thing
as really eating around your circadian clock. Yes, exactly, Okay,
hallelujah that we have defined that, because that is a
question I get on the daily. So when would intermitt
fasting be appropriate for someone? Did you recommend it for
(25:01):
any specific reason.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Now for men and women. No, because we look at
the population research that's coming out in overweight, sedentary obese,
like lots of different studies in that looking at early
versus late breaking a fast. We see individuals who break
(25:24):
their fast by eight eight thirty in the morning and
then they stop eating around four or five in the
afternoon get the benefits of what we think about with
Intermitte fasting. They have more metabolic control, more blood glucose control,
which comes in the metabolic control. They are improving their
lean mass, they're improving neuroplasticity, We're getting more autophagy because
(25:48):
they have that overnight fast and they're working with their
circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
We see people men and.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Women who hold their fast till noon or after and
then they end up having a later eating window, so
they might not finish eating till seventh thirty eight eight
thirty at night.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Oh I'm already in bed.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, But there is no change.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
There's no metabolic change, there's no increase in topogy. There
is an increase in cortisol. Baseline cortisol goes up because
it's a stress. It's an incredible stress on the body.
To wake up and try to go through the day
without fuel because if you're thinking about, Okay, I finished
eating at eight pm and then I'm not going to
eat again until noon, that's a very very long time
(26:33):
for the body not to have fuel. And I put
it to people, I'm like, would you take your car
out on the motorway on eat and try to see
how far you can get before you get to.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Or petrol gas station. There are some people will say, yeah,
I do that.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I do that all the time, But most people won't
do that because they know what's gonna happen in the car.
It's just going to and they're going to be stuck.
So we have to think about our bodies, right, But
it's not only about So many people focus on calories.
They don't think about nutrient density. So when you are
choosing in your eating window, you want it to be
nutrient dense. So that's looking exactly at removing ultra process,
(27:15):
taking care of your got microbiome, eating lots of lene proteins,
doing the eighty twenty rule.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
If you need a calorie deficit, well that's when you
are really conscious on what you're eating for dinner. Maybe
you have one hundred, one hundred and fifty calorie deficit
at dinner, and then that feeds forward to a calorie
deficit and improves your parasympathetic responses overnight. The other thing
about your circadian rhythm is we have hormone pulses throughout
the day that is reliant on light and food.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So if we're not.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Eating, then we're we're off shooting our hormone pulses. So
this means our appetite hormones are skewed. Our testosterone, our estrogen,
they're skewed. Our lutinizing hormone pulse is skewed, So we're
creating a lot of dysfunction in the body. So we're
looking at that popular research, they're going, okay, well, part
of this is because there's a misstep in hormonal control
(28:05):
that is supposed to be part of our normal wake.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Up and sleep cycle.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Food and light are the two most powerful ways of
resetting your circadian rhythm. So if you're holding a fast
and then you're just eating in the afternoon, you're shifting
as if you're doing a night shift. And we see
the literature out there how bad night shift has an
impact on overall health.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And well being bless the night shift worker.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
We love them, so Okay, the questions then that would
come up, what if I am fasting for religious reasons.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It's a small amount of time that you're fasting.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
We look at Ramadan, we look at other religions that
have a fasting protocol in it, and it's a very
short period of time. Ramadan's a month, but you're still eating, right,
You're eating not with circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
An offshoot of being able to fuel the body. Like
I have athletes who follow Ramadan and we are able
to manipulate the fasting window and eating window with their
training so they're not compromising their training. I think that
becomes the confusion of well, you say no fasted training, correct,
Maybe we move your training so it falls into your
(29:23):
eating window when you're doing something like Ramadan.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So you're really fueling for the demand of the training session.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And I think this conversation comes in when we look
at the protein amount that women need to get and.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
We know that women coming in new to this.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
High protein amount, it's overwhelming. So when we shorten that
eating window with say intermittent fasting, it makes it really
hard to protect that lean mass and get in the
number the grams of protein that we're recommending to them
in a day when you're only eating in a four
hour window.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I had this conversation with Abby Smith Ryan who's been
on the podcast Good Friend. I know she's awesome, and
she's like, well, when we look at it from a
scientific point of view, we're reducing the eating opportunities for
women who already have a difficult time getting enough food
in because of the sociocultural confines of the diet culture,
(30:21):
and a lot of women will fall into something like
intermittent fasting because of the diet culture and the want
to to kind of fall into an ideal body composition
that they think they need to have, but they're fighting that, Like,
if you're not fueling your body, you're not going to
create any kind of change. So we look at eating
opportunities when you're restricting it down to that four or
(30:44):
six hours, Like you said, you're really restricting your body's
ability to get optimal nutrition. So you might be trying
to achieve a particular body composition, but you're compromising your
actual nutrition. You're looking at micronutrient deficiency, you're looking at
(31:04):
protein deficiency. For women who are trying to increase their
fiber intake, they might eat a lot of fiber and
not be full enough to fulfill their calorie needs. So
there's a lot of misconception that happens with the eating
windows because women are way more sensitive to low nutrient
(31:25):
intake than men's bodies. And that also isn't really discussed
when we're talking about intermitted fasting and where we're putting
our calories.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
All right, so let's move on to jump training because
that's getting a lot of popularity right now, and I
know people will ask us is their jump training in
your programs, how does that contribute to our bone mass
and our bone help and what is your recommendation around
jump training?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So there's two ways of thinking about jump training. We
can think about our ballistic pliometric type movements, or we're
taught to land to absorb impact in our muscle right
with soft knees or really trying to absorb it through
our posture and not having a hard landing. That can
have some benefit for bone. But when we're talking about
(32:16):
jump training for a bone, we need to relearn how
that jump is. We're landing hard, we're absorbing the impact
through our skeletal system. So it's not a high jump,
it's not a ballistic type movement. And the reason for
that is we want multidirectional stress through the bone and
remembering that.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
The body will morph.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
With the movement, the ground doesn't, so we have ground
reaction forces.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
We want a low jump, but a high.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Ground reaction force to create multidirectional stress within the bone
to improve bone density. So when we're looking at jump training, yeah,
any kind of jumping is great. If you're skipping rope,
you're doing box jumps, that is going to contribute to
bone health. If you're someone who's on the low end
of bone density, so you're not osteoporritic, you might be
(33:06):
just on the cusp of the old word osteopeniic, but
just low normal bone density, you will look at how
am I going to increase that ground reactive force. So,
I mean, I've talked about Tracy Klissel's app and it's
now available Osteo Gains, and it's ten minutes, three times
a week of the proper kind of jump for improving
bone density for women out there, Like, well, I thought just.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Any kind of jumping was good. Yes, keep doing it.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Any kind of jumping is good for the bones, just
like resistance training is good for the bones. But if
you are in the category where you really really need
to focus on building bone density, we have to look
at what kind of landing that we're doing to improve
that ground reaction in multidirectional stress in the bone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, final question here. I know we had talked about
this in our power program last month on one of
our calls where we brought up a female that had asked,
you know, I see these lean women in the gym
and they're all doing cardio, and so can we talk
about I know we don't like No one likes calling
(34:12):
it skinny fat. I think the proper term is normal
way obesity. But that's what it means. Most women will
know it as skinny fat. Can you describe if that's
new to someone listening, Can you describe what that is
and how we go about fixing that.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, so circopinia is the highly technical word for it,
which skinny fat, normal way to obc all THO, it's
when we're looking at the quality of the muscle. We're
seeing a lot of extra fat where the muscle should be.
So we look lean but we have a really high
percent body fat because we don't have as much lean
(34:51):
mass muscle mass, and we have lower gency in our bones.
And when we're looking at women who are so cardio driven,
because that's from the nineteen eighties and nineties mentality that's
been so thrown at us, we're looking at a high
stress catabolic state. When we're doing all of the cardio
catabolism means we're breaking down our lean mass. So when
(35:15):
I see women who are really lean and they're just
doing cardio, I think about, Okay, low bone density, bones
like chalk, and really low muscle quality. How do we
change that? Of course, strength training, right, that's the be
all end all for all women. Doesn't matter what age
you are, but it becomes more important as you age.
(35:36):
We need strength training across the board. So I'm really
happy that that conversation is changing the other's protein intake. So,
like Bill Campbell posted that study a few years ago
where they took an experimental group and a control group
of normal weight obese women who were all sedentary, did
(35:57):
not put them on any kind of exercise, just changed
the amount of protein that they were taking. So you know,
we have the control group that maintain their usual protein intake.
I think it ended up being zero point five grams
per pound of body weight, and for the experimental group
they boosted up to that one to one point one
grams per pound of body weight. Over the course of
(36:19):
twelve weeks, the people with a higher protein intake completely
recomp their body no exercise. So protein is really really important.
And that's the other conversation that's been left out of
the nutrition conversation till recently, which I think is why
women find putting protein is so difficult. So you've had
all these conversations about high fat, low fat, high carb
(36:40):
low carb, and what do we do with those macronutrients,
and no one's really talked about protein. So now when
we're looking at the recommended daily allowance for protein, it's
way too low because people don't realize that that is
the fair minimum to avoid malnutrition. So if you're an
active woman and of older women trying to build and
(37:02):
or maintain your lean mass, you have to boost that
protein intake up to we like that one gram per
pound of body weight, ideally higher, but starting with that
one gram per pound.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, and I mean it comes down to we had
this conversation as well with I think there was a
study that Abby Smith Ryan introduced me to from Don
Lahman's lab maybe about women older than sixty or individuals
over than sixty maybe.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Needing a little bit more protein than women that might
be in their thirties.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
And we look at that also with post exercise, right,
so we see that there's an anabolic resistance to protein
and exercise as you get older. For women it starts
around forty. For men it's mid fifties. So we do
know that there's a definite change in the trajectory of
aging for women versus men. So we need to get
(37:58):
that higher protein intake. When we're in our twenties and thirties,
we can look at one point six grams per kilogram
of body weight, so it's around that point eight gram
per pound, and that's a good enough, but as we
get older, we need to boost it because we have
to provide optimal protein, especially for women who are hitting perimenopause,
(38:20):
because there's a rapid signal to lose lean mass and
bone mass. Protein helps reduce that offshoot of losing lean
mass and bone and it also helps with cravings. I
get a lot of questions of why am I craving
sugar and carbohydrates so much like I'm putting weight on,
and all I can do is think about food, especially
(38:40):
carbohydrate food. It's called the protein leverage theory, where we
look at the degradation of lean mass and bone in
women who are perimenopausal and the high stress of cortisol
from being in a hormone shift, and the brain is
perceiving it as being tired. When the brain is tired,
(39:01):
it wants glucose, which makes you crave carbohydrate, but in
actuality you need more protein. So when women boost their
protein intake to that one point one or so grams
per pound, they're craving stuff because now their body is
getting optal amount amino acids to offset that rapid decrease
(39:21):
in lean mass and bone and also helps shut down
some of that cortisol stress from being sympathetically driven in
this hormone shift.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So another conversation than to really have here for someone
that might come. I'm anticipating the questions, you know, this
seems overwhelming to get this amount?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Would you step load them absolutely a.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Little bit and say, you know what if that doesn't
work for you and you can get at one hundred
grams instead of one hundred and twenty. If that is
your quality of life and you are eating much more
than you were, do what you can and then build
up from there.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Absolutely, absolutely, And we look at little hacks of how
do we increase our protein intake?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Right? Yeah, sure, share. So most women will.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Get up and have a hot drink, usually coffee, right,
So that's why I talk about protein coffee. It can't
be hot because if you stir protein powder into a
hot beverage, it glugs and scross. But if we're looking
at stirring protein powder into your cold milk of choice
and then adding your coffee and putting it in the
fridge overnight, you have a cold latte in the morning,
(40:30):
you drink it, you get your latte fix and thirty
grams of protein.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So you're starting today this is just.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Water but down there all right, we already had that one.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
And then other women are like, well, I'm too full?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
What do I do? It's like, well, you can split
your breakfast. Right.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
So if you're looking at having eggs scrambled eggs on
sprouted grain toast, and you might have some nuts or
something with it, and you're looking at having a forty
gram protein meal, you can split it before and after training,
because then you're able to fuel your training. You're able
to have access to forty grams of protein, but you
(41:08):
don't get overly full. So there's lots of ways of
looking at what we're doing. It's the education component that
comes with it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Okay, So what I'm hearing you say through all of
these questions is there aren't specific absolutes. There's always a
different situation that might someone might fall into. And the
purpose here again as we close out this wonderful podcast,
(41:38):
move do something that you love. Add in these strong
components of protein, high intensity interval training, heavy strength training.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But the heavy strength training, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
There's different ways that you can do that that's appropriate
for different women, and really just use these to improve
the quality of your life so that we are independent
and we are are living our best life independently and
through decades to come correct.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I love it because it's not a training block. We're
not in a short term training block for an event
that's six months away.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
We're looking at.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
How are we doing daily changes to be more powerful
and strong and independent as we age Training for life,
Training for life that's my new tagline.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
We got it, we got it.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Training for Life.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Until next time,
Hey, everyone, This is Haley and I'm Laura and welcome
to the body Pod. Okay, Today on the Body Pod,
I get to speak in person with doctor Stacy Simms
and break down the most commonly asked questions that we
get about Zone too training, are their benefits and how
(00:22):
much should we do intermittent fasting versus time restricted eating,
as well as the rep ranges that I have programmed
in our power programs. This is a very open conversation
about accepting women coming into strength and cardio training at
all levels of fitness and taking the time that is
needed to build up safely to harder training styles. We
finish this conversation with the message that there is a
(00:45):
place for everyone and the desire to empower women to
do what works for them, as well as a reminder
that recommendations can and should be altered to fit your
individual lifestyles, your ability level, and your preferences. Let's get
into the show. Welcome back to the Body Pod in person.
(01:09):
Hi so excited to have you here and to be
doing this today. So I wanted to touch on the
three main questions that we get every single day. So
I'm sure your email is flooded as is mine and
our DMS and in our groups about zone two training,
time restricted, eating, and REP ranges.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So we're gonna dive in deep. Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Let's good.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, So let's start with the zone two training. So
I think the message has been blown out of proportion
that you're saying no zone two. Ever, what is your
response to that.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Zone two is something that you can do. I'm not
anti zone two, my God, just put that out there.
Not anti zone two. But when we look at time
management for one and two, where the data is coming
from to show that zone two improves metabolic flexibility, it's
based on male physiology.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So I'll unpack that a bit.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
When we are looking at sex differences, there are sex
differences that are from birth.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Actually they begin in utero.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And one of those inherent sex differences are the type
of muscle fibers that women and men have.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
So we have things.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Called glycolytic that's our fast twitch, and we have oxidative,
which is our slow endurant type fibers. Women by the
nature of XX, because we don't have anything outside of
the binary XY for men and XX for women. Women
by the nature being XX are born with more of
the endurant oxidative fibers. With that, they also have better
(02:56):
mitochondria density, they have better mitochondrial proteins that allow for.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Fuel to be used.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
By the cells, and we have less of those fast
twitched fibers as compared to men. So how that feeds
forward to training in the everyday person is when we're
looking at all the information out there about zone two
to improve metabolic flexibility, to improve your oxidative capacity. It's
(03:24):
based on the male data where men have to do
more of that zone two to improve the oxidative fibers
that they have. But for us women, we already have
metabolic flexibility. It's inherent because across our menstrual cycle, we're
switching between a preference for carbohydrate and fat, and that's
(03:47):
an offshoot of the exposure of estrogen and to some
extent progesterone that our body has on a monthly cycle. So,
by the nature of saying everyone needs zone too, do
zone two, it's a misstep for women.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So I'm not saying don't do it.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
We can do it for our soul food, we can
do it for you know, stress release, We can do
it as a chat as we're going for a walk
with our friends. But there isn't the precedence that women
have to spend so much time.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Doing Zone two.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So if we look at the recommendations that are coming
out about zone two training, they're saying between forty five
and ninety minutes, four to five times a week.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Oh right, who has time for that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Nobody has that time, right, So we.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Look at optimizing women's health and longevity. So we're not
trained for anything specific. We're not training for a marathon
or an iron Man or one hundred mile bike ride.
That's a different kettle of fish. So if we're training
for health and longevity, we want to improve women's glycolytic fibers.
(04:54):
We lose them rapidly as we age. But the other
really critical thing for longevity is being able to produce lactate.
So lactate is the metabolic byproduct of fast twitch and
anaerobic capacity. It's a critical fuel for the brain. The
(05:15):
brain prefers lactate, so does the heart. If we don't
produce lactate and we are amiss in how much that
we are producing, then our brain metabolism changes and it
relies more on glucose. When we're looking at it from
a health perspective, it doesn't seem like that big of
a deal because your brain is still working optimally. But
(05:38):
when we're looking at sex differences in cognitive decline, we're
looking at sex differences in alzheimer development, and all of
this is coming out, we see that not only is
it a sociocultural thing where women who are now experiencing
Alzheimer's dementia and cognitive decline didn't have the availability of
(05:58):
fast paced kind of jobs that are now available, so
we already have a little bit of decline in that.
But from a metabolic standpoint, lactate isn't happening. We're not
having lactate metabolism, so we're not having the neurons connecting
very well. We're not having glial cells working optimally. So
it contributes to the sex difference in cognitive decline. So
(06:22):
when we pull it back and say what is optimal
for women who are time pressed wanting to have good
body composition, really good metabolic health, as well as looking
after our brains. So when we're seventy eighty ninety one
hundred years old, we still have all our faculties. It's
looking at polarizing our training where we are putting in
(06:43):
true high intensity work, we're putting in proper strength training
because that also helps with brain health.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And when we want.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
To have our soul food, we go out and we
have our soul food, but it's not the bread.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And butter of what we do.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Women do better from an aging perspective of peppering in
more high intensity.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And less volume.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Men, on the other hand, as they get older, they
need more metabolic flexibility, so yes, they need to do
the zone two. They need to improve their oxidative capacity,
they need to improve their mitochondria density, which means their
body is able to use free fatty acids. Well, but
for women, we're already there by the nature of being XX.
This is why I'm always like, you don't have to
(07:27):
spend all this time doing zone two. If you are
an endurance athlete, then yes you do, because you need
that base volume in order to be able to raise
one hundred miles or finish a marathon. But for the
general woman who's looking to optimize health and fitness and longevity,
you don't have to put so much time into that
(07:48):
zone two training.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Okay, So, for example, for someone that is starting out
and they have they've not been regularly exercising than and
would it be appropriate for them to go straight into
high intensity interval training or would you phase them in.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Just like anything, like, all movement is good, and so
if you're just starting out, then you want to move
right and you might hit a higher intensity because your
body's not used to moving, and you might go for
a walk and hit an incline and then all of
a sudden you're in a higher intensity. But over the
course of a couple of weeks, that hill's going to
flatten out for you. It's not going to feel hard.
(08:31):
So we want you to just enjoy and learn how
to move before we start putting in any kind of
high intensity. And then it could be you're going on
your twenty or thirty minute walk and you deviate and
do some flights of stairs on your walk, or maybe
you increase your pace of it. So there's ways of
phasing in high intensity, and it's relative, and the fitter
(08:52):
you get, the more that intensity comes into running sprints
or battle ropes or kettlebell swings, the things that we
talk about on a regular basis. But anyone can start
just start by moving, and then you can vary your
intensity in your preferred mode, and it doesn't have to
be something that's really really focused in a gym. It
(09:14):
can be I'm going to go up this hill and
I'm going to do thirty second hill reps. And it
could be walking, could be running, it could be power
walking something like that, and that will get you on
the road to doing and getting used to higher intensity work.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, So I think this is where and you just
covered this a second ago. I think the conversation is
getting muddled out there when women are feeling like there's
a barrier to exercise because they think there's only one
specific way to exercise. And what I hear you saying
is there's different modes that do different things. But our time,
(09:52):
at this age, we want to really put in some
of those high intensity intervals and those sprint intervals. But
there is a phase in and if you are new
to exercise it, it's totally appropriate to start there and
then ramp up and start peppering in some of those
hit sessions before you go full throttle.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, because I don't want someone to have the experience
that a lot of kids have where kids are really
active and having fun and then they're put into like
a pe class that makes them do running or makes
them do something that they really don't like, and they
get a really negative attitude around physical activity. When we
are looking at adults who haven't been moving and they
(10:33):
want to start their journey, we want it to be
a positive reinforcement. So is it ten minutes walking for
three times a week at the start? That's better than nothing, right,
So we look at phasing people in just like strength training.
We're not going to throw someone in the gym and
have them do a hundred kilo deadlift or anything like that, right, No, no, no,
(10:54):
we phase everyone in. So I don't want people to
think that there's this barrier because they're not fit enough
or they're not confident enough. We did a study back
when I was at Stanford looking at pre fitness fitness,
So what are the barriers to exercise? And one of
them is, well, we know lack of community, but also
(11:15):
the uncomfortable aspect of heat and sweating. So we did
some pretty cooling and taking away that one barrier allowed
women to develop a fitness level that gave them the
confidence to go out and join a class, or join
a gym, or go out and do a hill instead,
So we have to look at the barriers as well. So, yeah,
(11:36):
we can drink something cool for the heat aspect. But also,
if you have ownership with a friend and you both
want to start out on this journey, you're not going
to tell your friend, Okay, do thirty second sprints, right,
So you want to have some of that ownership as well.
It's like, what would you tell your friend if your
friend is wanting to start on this journey. So you
(11:57):
are your friend and maybe you have that commonality of
calling your friend up and saying, hey, let's meet for
ten or fifteen minutes and go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
All right, So Stacy, can you define zone two training?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And are there benefits to zone two training?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, So when we're looking to quantify intensity and stress
on the body, we look at different zones. We have
zone one, two, three, four, five, Some people say six,
and some companies are now saying zero and zero has
been zero has not been quantified in sports science, so
we don't pay attention to that. Zone two is going
(12:39):
out and having a conversational pace where you're still like
breathing hard, your heart rate is elevated, but it's not
overly taxing you.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Can do it for a very long period of time.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
The benefit of zone two is it's cardiovascular health, right,
So we are increasing our heart rate, We're creating more
of a muscle pump, so we're stimulating cardiac muscle. We're
improving our blood flow, and of course stress release.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
It's lower intensity, it's not too taxing in the body.
We don't have a lot of quartersol that's released, so
we're looking at it as a stress reliever. It's really
good for improving our cardiovascular health, which then improves blood
flow for men and improves metabolic flexibility for women. Were
I mean, it does use more free fatty acids because
(13:28):
it's lower intensity, but it doesn't invoke the same metabolic
flexibility that we see with men.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Okay, so I use it. I'm curious your thoughts on this.
I will use it if I have a one on
one client and they're in, you know a little bit
of a calorie deficet that we're watching and they just
aren't recovering as well on lower calories.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So I'll use it as a recovery.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Day and something that they can look forward to where
they don't have to smash themselves, you know, in that
hour and maybe instead of the choice of not working
out that they would go out for zone too, So
that would be an appropriate.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I mean there are times when I
travel a lot, right, and the Transmorrinian travel is a nightmare,
But I want to get outside and move every day.
I'm not going to go do a hit session every day.
I'm not going to go smash myself in the gym
every day. So there are times where I'm like, I
just want to move and it is zoned too, and
I'm not necessarily trained for anything, but it's movement, it's outside,
(14:25):
it's waking me up, it's making me feel good, and yeah,
there is a bit of a calorie burn, but it
also works for recovery, for resetting circadian rhythm, for just
allowing the body.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Just to go, oh okay great.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
So it is a really massive stress relieving response. So
it creates a cascade of hormonal responses to just allow
the body to get more parasympathetic.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And so yes, it's really beneficial for recovery.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And I love, love, love our zone two rights that
we've got on, I know, to catch up, So can
you describe blactate? Is that something do we get the
same benefit from strength training with the lactate that's moving
in the body, or is that a separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It depends on what kind of strength training we're doing.
So when we're looking at how the body fuels itself,
it's not a linear progression of ATPCP right into fat burning.
We're always kind of using everything all the time. When
we get to a precedence of lactate production, it means
that we are at a level of intensity where it's
(15:34):
too hard for the body to be able to take
some of the breakdown components of carbohydrate and pull it
into aerobic exercise. So if we're looking at strength training
and we're doing a circuit like every minute on the
minute using kettlebells or something like that, then we're producing lactate.
(15:54):
If we're doing a typical heavier lifting session, that's not
lactate production. That's ATPC, and we are using a little
bit of glucose because we get into that, but we're
not at a level where a body can't regenerate fast enough.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So when we're looking.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
At the availability of fuel, when we're looking at the
higher loads, lower volume type, so you're heavier lifting, that
is not lack tap production if we're looking at a
circuit or we're looking at a metabolic stimulus of higher
higher reps. So we're doing the twenty or whatever to failure,
(16:31):
which isn't that appropriate for our group of women? That
can be LAC tap production. But it also depends on
how much rest is between the sets.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
So let's move on to the rep ranges.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And when we launched our first power programs, I know
we wrote the program together and we put it out
to the.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
World, and I know there was a lot of chatter and.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Confusion about there are some hyperchurvy blocks in there.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
There's max strength blocks for the beginner.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Obviously, there's no low rep heavy lifting, and we have
higher reps in that to really.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Teach them how to move.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But it was it's very confusing to women when they'll
come into our programs and they'll say, well, Stacy wants
me to only lift low reps heavyweight.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, why do I have higher reps in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah, there's there's a misconception I think in the fitness
world where if you're going to do strength trending, you
can't do any cardio. If you're doing cardio, you shouldn't
do strength training, especially heavy loads.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
If you are going to do strength training.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Then you should just lift heavy in a power based
and you shouldn't do hypperchaffee or you should just do
hyghpercha feed to failure. But there's a it's not a
linear progression of things. We have to look at completely
altering and changing things up as we go. So when
we're looking at the higher reps and the lower loads
(18:01):
in the beginning program, it's.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Because one we don't want injury. Two we want people
to learn how to move properly.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
How do you squat? What is your depth? What are
your sticking points? Do we have to work on mobility?
How's your core strength? Because we're not going to put
you under load if you are a bindi and not
like a bamboo straw.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
So when we're.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Looking at how the body responds to it, your body
responds to load and it doesn't matter if it's higher
low load. But what kind of adaptations do we want.
That's why we want to build women into lifting heavier
in the power based stuff, but not staying in that
high loading and lower rep range for the rest of
(18:43):
their life. Right, we need to have a periodization, which
is what you're so great at doing and prescribing in
the programs. So we build up and then we work
on our max strength, and then we have a recovery dload.
Maybe we're doing some higher reps there, maybe we're doing
some cluster sets, we're doing some ballistic movements, and then
we can rebuild because part of it is we want
(19:04):
that central nervous system response to actually take the place
of estrogen to build the.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Lean mass in the bone.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
But then we also want to have different stimulus so
that the neuromuscular connections also are having a challenge instead
of just always recruiting as many muscle fibers as possible. Yes,
And I think people get confused when they're like, wait,
I just want to lift heavy. First, we need to
make sure your body's really stress resilient enough to take
(19:34):
on those loads. And as you're taking those loads on,
we have to back it off a little so that
you can become more stress resilient.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And I think what I love that you just said
is to be able to give women the freedom to say, listen, one,
there's no possible way that we could come up with
one program that would cover everything, and that would be
suitable every single female and their specific situation. So the
(20:03):
goal really is, as we get women into strength training,
and I would love to hear your point on this
as well, is to come in at the level that
you are comfortable doing. And yes we want to push you,
and yes, at some point we want to mix in
these lower lower rep ranges or mid rep ranges, but
it's a different purpose. If you have an injury, maybe
(20:25):
you're not doing low reps for X amount of months
while you're recovering, or you know, if you're trying to
work on some stability muscles that require a bit of
time to stabilize, then maybe you're doing some higher reps there.
But that's not where we're staying in those you know,
twenty thirty rep ranges. Now, I just did a foundation
(20:46):
program where I did do you know, twenty twenty five reps,
but it was once a year and it was for
three weeks.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So it's not something that I stay in.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
But the fusion of the science and real life coaching
is meant to be tailored, especially when you're selling online
programs where we don't have this one on one connection
with women. Our goal for everyone is to not get
(21:15):
injured to fall in love with strength training and to
just keep at it so that we do have this
good quality of life through hopefully seventies, eighties, and nineties.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yes, exactly, because there's so many women. I get asked
all the time, where do I start. I don't feel
comfortable going to a gym. It's so gendered.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
We know this.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You walk into any big brand gym and as a woman,
they're like, oh, there are the cardio machines.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
As a guy, you're talking.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
They're lifting platforms back there, and we have XYZ strength equipment,
so women are intimidated to go into that. So one
of the goals that we have is to make it accessible.
If you have a program and you can go into
gym and there's someone on the app to show you
what to do and how to do things, it boots
the confidence. I've seen women in gyms on our app
(22:02):
working out together and I love it.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It's great. And you know, so I see that. It
also brings in house.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Community, yes, as well as the community that we're developing online.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yes, and Stacy, you are the pioneer in this space
and everyone will we'll give you that title. So we're
super grateful if we move on from the rep ranges
and the third question that I want to really bring
up in this confusion space of intermittent fasting and time
(22:34):
restricted eating. Now, I know where you stand on the
time restricted eating, but most women are getting confused on
whether intermint fasting and time restricted eating are the same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Are they the same thing? And what do we recommend?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They are definitely not the same thing. So we look
at interminute fasting. There's lots of different avenues to take
when we're.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Looking at intern in it fasting.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
We look at holding your fast till noon or after
and so you have like a four hour eating window,
and in that four hour eating window there are no
real restrictions on what you're eating. We see some people
are doing a twelve twelve where they are twelve hour
overnight fast and twelve hours of eating window. Again no
(23:22):
real confines around what they're eating in that twelve hour
You could have a sixteen hour fast. So with inter
minute fasting, there's no real identification of circadian rhythm. We're
looking at time restricted eating. We're looking at fueling the
body when it needs to be fueled and then having
(23:43):
an overnight fast. So time restricted would be you get
up and as a woman, you're having breakfast or not
full breakfast, with something to eat within like a half
an hour after you wake up to drop your cortisol
signal to hypothalamus that there's some nutrition coming in. And
then maybe you go training, then you come home, have
your real breakfast, and then you're eating on regular like
(24:06):
you're having your meals and your snacks, and then you
have dinner and you don't have anything after dinner. You
stop eating with dinner being over. So it might be
six seven, seven thirty at night, so you have around
two hours before bed, and then you have a twelve
hour It could even be a fourteen hour fast because
you stop eating at seven thirty and maybe you don't
(24:28):
get up if you're lucky enough, till nine, and then
you have something at nine thirty. But most people can
do an eleven or twelve hour fast every night, and
that's what we call time restricted eating.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, So then time restricted eating is the same thing
as really eating around your circadian clock. Yes, exactly, Okay,
hallelujah that we have defined that, because that is a
question I get on the daily. So when would intermitt
fasting be appropriate for someone? Did you recommend it for
(25:01):
any specific reason.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Now for men and women. No, because we look at
the population research that's coming out in overweight, sedentary obese,
like lots of different studies in that looking at early
versus late breaking a fast. We see individuals who break
(25:24):
their fast by eight eight thirty in the morning and
then they stop eating around four or five in the
afternoon get the benefits of what we think about with
Intermitte fasting. They have more metabolic control, more blood glucose control,
which comes in the metabolic control. They are improving their
lean mass, they're improving neuroplasticity, We're getting more autophagy because
(25:48):
they have that overnight fast and they're working with their
circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
We see people men and.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Women who hold their fast till noon or after and
then they end up having a later eating window, so
they might not finish eating till seventh thirty eight eight
thirty at night.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Oh I'm already in bed.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, But there is no change.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
There's no metabolic change, there's no increase in topogy. There
is an increase in cortisol. Baseline cortisol goes up because
it's a stress. It's an incredible stress on the body.
To wake up and try to go through the day
without fuel because if you're thinking about, Okay, I finished
eating at eight pm and then I'm not going to
eat again until noon, that's a very very long time
(26:33):
for the body not to have fuel. And I put
it to people, I'm like, would you take your car
out on the motorway on eat and try to see
how far you can get before you get to.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Or petrol gas station. There are some people will say, yeah,
I do that.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I do that all the time, But most people won't
do that because they know what's gonna happen in the car.
It's just going to and they're going to be stuck.
So we have to think about our bodies, right, But
it's not only about So many people focus on calories.
They don't think about nutrient density. So when you are
choosing in your eating window, you want it to be
nutrient dense. So that's looking exactly at removing ultra process,
(27:15):
taking care of your got microbiome, eating lots of lene proteins,
doing the eighty twenty rule.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
If you need a calorie deficit, well that's when you
are really conscious on what you're eating for dinner. Maybe
you have one hundred, one hundred and fifty calorie deficit
at dinner, and then that feeds forward to a calorie
deficit and improves your parasympathetic responses overnight. The other thing
about your circadian rhythm is we have hormone pulses throughout
the day that is reliant on light and food.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So if we're not.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Eating, then we're we're off shooting our hormone pulses. So
this means our appetite hormones are skewed. Our testosterone, our estrogen,
they're skewed. Our lutinizing hormone pulse is skewed, So we're
creating a lot of dysfunction in the body. So we're
looking at that popular research, they're going, okay, well, part
of this is because there's a misstep in hormonal control
(28:05):
that is supposed to be part of our normal wake.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Up and sleep cycle.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Food and light are the two most powerful ways of
resetting your circadian rhythm. So if you're holding a fast
and then you're just eating in the afternoon, you're shifting
as if you're doing a night shift. And we see
the literature out there how bad night shift has an
impact on overall health.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And well being bless the night shift worker.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
We love them, so Okay, the questions then that would
come up, what if I am fasting for religious reasons.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It's a small amount of time that you're fasting.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
We look at Ramadan, we look at other religions that
have a fasting protocol in it, and it's a very
short period of time. Ramadan's a month, but you're still eating, right,
You're eating not with circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
An offshoot of being able to fuel the body. Like
I have athletes who follow Ramadan and we are able
to manipulate the fasting window and eating window with their
training so they're not compromising their training. I think that
becomes the confusion of well, you say no fasted training, correct,
Maybe we move your training so it falls into your
(29:23):
eating window when you're doing something like Ramadan.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So you're really fueling for the demand of the training session.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And I think this conversation comes in when we look
at the protein amount that women need to get and.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
We know that women coming in new to this.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
High protein amount, it's overwhelming. So when we shorten that
eating window with say intermittent fasting, it makes it really
hard to protect that lean mass and get in the
number the grams of protein that we're recommending to them
in a day when you're only eating in a four
hour window.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I had this conversation with Abby Smith Ryan who's been
on the podcast Good Friend. I know she's awesome, and
she's like, well, when we look at it from a
scientific point of view, we're reducing the eating opportunities for
women who already have a difficult time getting enough food
in because of the sociocultural confines of the diet culture,
(30:21):
and a lot of women will fall into something like
intermittent fasting because of the diet culture and the want
to to kind of fall into an ideal body composition
that they think they need to have, but they're fighting that, Like,
if you're not fueling your body, you're not going to
create any kind of change. So we look at eating
opportunities when you're restricting it down to that four or
(30:44):
six hours, Like you said, you're really restricting your body's
ability to get optimal nutrition. So you might be trying
to achieve a particular body composition, but you're compromising your
actual nutrition. You're looking at micronutrient deficiency, you're looking at
(31:04):
protein deficiency. For women who are trying to increase their
fiber intake, they might eat a lot of fiber and
not be full enough to fulfill their calorie needs. So
there's a lot of misconception that happens with the eating
windows because women are way more sensitive to low nutrient
(31:25):
intake than men's bodies. And that also isn't really discussed
when we're talking about intermitted fasting and where we're putting
our calories.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
All right, so let's move on to jump training because
that's getting a lot of popularity right now, and I
know people will ask us is their jump training in
your programs, how does that contribute to our bone mass
and our bone help and what is your recommendation around
jump training?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So there's two ways of thinking about jump training. We
can think about our ballistic pliometric type movements, or we're
taught to land to absorb impact in our muscle right
with soft knees or really trying to absorb it through
our posture and not having a hard landing. That can
have some benefit for bone. But when we're talking about
(32:16):
jump training for a bone, we need to relearn how
that jump is. We're landing hard, we're absorbing the impact
through our skeletal system. So it's not a high jump,
it's not a ballistic type movement. And the reason for
that is we want multidirectional stress through the bone and
remembering that.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
The body will morph.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
With the movement, the ground doesn't, so we have ground
reaction forces.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
We want a low jump, but a high.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Ground reaction force to create multidirectional stress within the bone
to improve bone density. So when we're looking at jump training, yeah,
any kind of jumping is great. If you're skipping rope,
you're doing box jumps, that is going to contribute to
bone health. If you're someone who's on the low end
of bone density, so you're not osteoporritic, you might be
(33:06):
just on the cusp of the old word osteopeniic, but
just low normal bone density, you will look at how
am I going to increase that ground reactive force. So,
I mean, I've talked about Tracy Klissel's app and it's
now available Osteo Gains, and it's ten minutes, three times
a week of the proper kind of jump for improving
bone density for women out there, Like, well, I thought just.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Any kind of jumping was good. Yes, keep doing it.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Any kind of jumping is good for the bones, just
like resistance training is good for the bones. But if
you are in the category where you really really need
to focus on building bone density, we have to look
at what kind of landing that we're doing to improve
that ground reaction in multidirectional stress in the bone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, final question here. I know we had talked about
this in our power program last month on one of
our calls where we brought up a female that had asked,
you know, I see these lean women in the gym
and they're all doing cardio, and so can we talk
about I know we don't like No one likes calling
(34:12):
it skinny fat. I think the proper term is normal
way obesity. But that's what it means. Most women will
know it as skinny fat. Can you describe if that's
new to someone listening, Can you describe what that is
and how we go about fixing that.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, so circopinia is the highly technical word for it,
which skinny fat, normal way to obc all THO, it's
when we're looking at the quality of the muscle. We're
seeing a lot of extra fat where the muscle should be.
So we look lean but we have a really high
percent body fat because we don't have as much lean
(34:51):
mass muscle mass, and we have lower gency in our bones.
And when we're looking at women who are so cardio driven,
because that's from the nineteen eighties and nineties mentality that's
been so thrown at us, we're looking at a high
stress catabolic state. When we're doing all of the cardio
catabolism means we're breaking down our lean mass. So when
(35:15):
I see women who are really lean and they're just
doing cardio, I think about, Okay, low bone density, bones
like chalk, and really low muscle quality. How do we
change that? Of course, strength training, right, that's the be
all end all for all women. Doesn't matter what age
you are, but it becomes more important as you age.
(35:36):
We need strength training across the board. So I'm really
happy that that conversation is changing the other's protein intake. So,
like Bill Campbell posted that study a few years ago
where they took an experimental group and a control group
of normal weight obese women who were all sedentary, did
(35:57):
not put them on any kind of exercise, just changed
the amount of protein that they were taking. So you know,
we have the control group that maintain their usual protein intake.
I think it ended up being zero point five grams
per pound of body weight, and for the experimental group
they boosted up to that one to one point one
grams per pound of body weight. Over the course of
(36:19):
twelve weeks, the people with a higher protein intake completely
recomp their body no exercise. So protein is really really important.
And that's the other conversation that's been left out of
the nutrition conversation till recently, which I think is why
women find putting protein is so difficult. So you've had
all these conversations about high fat, low fat, high carb
(36:40):
low carb, and what do we do with those macronutrients,
and no one's really talked about protein. So now when
we're looking at the recommended daily allowance for protein, it's
way too low because people don't realize that that is
the fair minimum to avoid malnutrition. So if you're an
active woman and of older women trying to build and
(37:02):
or maintain your lean mass, you have to boost that
protein intake up to we like that one gram per
pound of body weight, ideally higher, but starting with that
one gram per pound.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, and I mean it comes down to we had
this conversation as well with I think there was a
study that Abby Smith Ryan introduced me to from Don
Lahman's lab maybe about women older than sixty or individuals
over than sixty maybe.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Needing a little bit more protein than women that might
be in their thirties.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
And we look at that also with post exercise, right,
so we see that there's an anabolic resistance to protein
and exercise as you get older. For women it starts
around forty. For men it's mid fifties. So we do
know that there's a definite change in the trajectory of
aging for women versus men. So we need to get
(37:58):
that higher protein intake. When we're in our twenties and thirties,
we can look at one point six grams per kilogram
of body weight, so it's around that point eight gram
per pound, and that's a good enough, but as we
get older, we need to boost it because we have
to provide optimal protein, especially for women who are hitting perimenopause,
(38:20):
because there's a rapid signal to lose lean mass and
bone mass. Protein helps reduce that offshoot of losing lean
mass and bone and it also helps with cravings. I
get a lot of questions of why am I craving
sugar and carbohydrates so much like I'm putting weight on,
and all I can do is think about food, especially
(38:40):
carbohydrate food. It's called the protein leverage theory, where we
look at the degradation of lean mass and bone in
women who are perimenopausal and the high stress of cortisol
from being in a hormone shift, and the brain is
perceiving it as being tired. When the brain is tired,
(39:01):
it wants glucose, which makes you crave carbohydrate, but in
actuality you need more protein. So when women boost their
protein intake to that one point one or so grams
per pound, they're craving stuff because now their body is
getting optal amount amino acids to offset that rapid decrease
(39:21):
in lean mass and bone and also helps shut down
some of that cortisol stress from being sympathetically driven in
this hormone shift.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So another conversation than to really have here for someone
that might come. I'm anticipating the questions, you know, this
seems overwhelming to get this amount?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Would you step load them absolutely a.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Little bit and say, you know what if that doesn't
work for you and you can get at one hundred
grams instead of one hundred and twenty. If that is
your quality of life and you are eating much more
than you were, do what you can and then build
up from there.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Absolutely, absolutely, And we look at little hacks of how
do we increase our protein intake?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Right? Yeah, sure, share. So most women will.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Get up and have a hot drink, usually coffee, right,
So that's why I talk about protein coffee. It can't
be hot because if you stir protein powder into a
hot beverage, it glugs and scross. But if we're looking
at stirring protein powder into your cold milk of choice
and then adding your coffee and putting it in the
fridge overnight, you have a cold latte in the morning,
(40:30):
you drink it, you get your latte fix and thirty
grams of protein.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So you're starting today this is just.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Water but down there all right, we already had that one.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
And then other women are like, well, I'm too full?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
What do I do? It's like, well, you can split
your breakfast. Right.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
So if you're looking at having eggs scrambled eggs on
sprouted grain toast, and you might have some nuts or
something with it, and you're looking at having a forty
gram protein meal, you can split it before and after training,
because then you're able to fuel your training. You're able
to have access to forty grams of protein, but you
(41:08):
don't get overly full. So there's lots of ways of
looking at what we're doing. It's the education component that
comes with it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Okay, So what I'm hearing you say through all of
these questions is there aren't specific absolutes. There's always a
different situation that might someone might fall into. And the
purpose here again as we close out this wonderful podcast,
(41:38):
move do something that you love. Add in these strong
components of protein, high intensity interval training, heavy strength training.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But the heavy strength training, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
There's different ways that you can do that that's appropriate
for different women, and really just use these to improve
the quality of your life so that we are independent
and we are are living our best life independently and
through decades to come correct.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I love it because it's not a training block. We're
not in a short term training block for an event
that's six months away.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
We're looking at.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
How are we doing daily changes to be more powerful
and strong and independent as we age Training for life,
Training for life that's my new tagline.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
We got it, we got it.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Training for Life.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
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