July 21, 2025 • 31 mins
When the vision you were building your life around suddenly cracks… what then?
This episode is your permission slip to be in the in-between, to not know, and to trust yourself anyway.
I chat about:
- A powerful reframe to use when things fall apart: “If this is for me… then now what?”
- Why the void—the in-between—isn’t empty, but deeply alive
- How fear of being “ordinary” might be keeping you from your truth
- What trust really looks like in the middle of transformation
- The surprising metaphor from pottery class that anchors it all
You’ll walk away feeling seen, softened, and maybe even a little braver.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Melanie Ann Layer: Alpha Femme
- Previous episode: 3. When You Realise You’ve Sleepwalked Into a Life That Isn’t Yours
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Craving clarity? Book a channelled reading and receive guidance on your next big move. Only a few spots are available each week, so grab yours here: www.andimatthies.com/channelledreading
LET'S CONNECT
Come say hi on my main Instagram, my new art feed @pathandnine or on Threads.
You can also explore my writing on Substack or discover how we can work together here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrea Matthies (00:00):
I'm Andrea Lee Matthies, writer, photographer,
and Clairvoyant Medium, and thisis the Bold, Brave Woman Project.
This podcast is a living, breathing,unfolding of what it really
means to step into our becoming.
Born from the ashes of a failed YouTubechannel, this weekly podcast brings you
real unfiltered moments of failure, ofbravery, and of deep intuitive knowing.
(00:25):
so that you too can step into who you arebecoming with even more trust and bravery.
Let's dive in.
Hello and welcome back to anotherepisode of The Bold, Brave Woman Project.
It's been a really big week, actually,in the last episode, I talked a lot
about this big realization that Ihad at the event that perhaps all the
(00:51):
decisions that I had made and the typeof life that I'd been driving towards.
Really, perhaps wasn't whatI really wanted, and I had
held a lot of realizations.
I'll link in the show notes that episodeif you wanna go back and listen to it.
But over the course of the week, I'vebeen deeply thinking about it and deeply
(01:14):
feeling into that and trying to figureout, well, if not that, then what?
One of my favorite, favorite mentors,Melanie Ann Layer of the AlphaFemme brand.
If you haven't, uh, had Melaniein your world yet, I highly
recommend you check her out.
She's amazing.
But she has one of these incrediblesayings that I really, really love,
(01:37):
and it is, if this is for me, thennow what, Rather than seeing things
happening to us and then startingto try and question those things, or
attribute blame or shame to the eventsthat are happening in our lives.
Having this slight reframe ofsaying, well, if this is for me.
(01:59):
It's almost like it gives us backour power to be able to use whatever
is happening in our world as.
Not just a positive, but a catalystas a driver to either shift us or
heal us or change us or even simplypivot us into a new direction.
(02:21):
Funnily enough, I've used the word simplyin front of the word pivot, which is.
Interesting because sometimes pivotsthat we go through in our lives can
be particularly deep and can canbe completely soul reorienting and
there's nothing simple about that.
But having this abilityto say, this is for me.
(02:44):
This circumstance, this confrontation,this sadness, this fear, all these
things that are being revealedor mirrored back to me is, for
me is such a beautiful place to.
Move into when we wanna naturally go intothat crisis state or that questioning
(03:04):
state, that negative questioning state, Ishould say, in terms of blame attribution,
has been really helpful in me on myjourney because this event that I went to
last week and this whole realization thatI perhaps was, was sleepwalking into a
life that I didn't really want, has beenso helpful to say, okay, this is for me.
(03:26):
For whatever reason, if evenif I can't see it clearly right
now, this that's happening, thisenergy and this redirecting is
for me, it's like, okay, great.
Take a deep breath.
This is for me.
So now what?
So what now do I do?
What is the next thingthat I need to know?
The next thing that I need to lookat, heal, take action around, and it's
(03:51):
a beautiful question that I can poseout to my guide, to my angels, to the
universe, or God, whoever it is that Ifeel drawn to connect with in that moment.
It's like, okay, if thisis for me, then now what?
It's allowing this beautifulopen-ended question to be
reverberated out into the universe.
And sometimes the answers can comequite quickly, like your intuition
(04:15):
will light up and all of a sudden theanswer to that question will come in.
But over the last week, this realdeep realization of I need to do
something significantly different.
I need to look at whoI am, who I have been.
What I've been doing and the directionthat I'm going and really understand
(04:38):
is this, what I want is this versionof me who I truly wanna be and what
is there underneath all of the masks.
And if this is for me.
Then what is here now?
What is the next now thing that Ineed to feel into, look into reorient
(04:59):
so that I can keep moving forward?
And the big question that keepscoming up for me is, what is it
that I actually truly desire?
That is the thing that has been top ofmind for me over the last week since
this big realization and having thesebig conversations with my husband
around, making some significant changesin my lifestyle and the way that I show
(05:25):
up in the world, and I don't actuallyhave the answer to the, now what?
And that can be tricky.
Um, sometimes it can feellike, okay, great, this is
happening for me, but now what?
And when the answer doesn'tcome, it can feel really empty.
It can feel really lonely.
It can feel really, I.
(05:47):
Difficult to navigate into the spaceof not knowing what to do particularly,
um, for someone like me who's beenquite logic based, quite action based,
or having to have the strategy or theknowing of where I'm going to, to be
able to then orient myself around that,and it's placed me very firmly into this
(06:10):
space or the liminal space of the void.
Over the last week, and you might haveheard lots of different people talk
about the void, but for me, the bestway I have found to define it for myself
to kind of bring myself some peace andsome understanding around this phase
is it's the liminal space or the theenergy and the space that we move into.
(06:34):
Not physically, but energetically, andfrom a, a mind and a quantum perspective
of the in-between, between who I havebeen and who I am currently and who I'm
becoming, and being in that void, in thatliminal space can be really challenging.
Particularly, when we don'thave a, or I don't have a clear
(06:57):
view on the, who am I becoming?
And being in a void space, thisliminal space, without that answer,
without a definite picture, image,factual, or known state of what
I'm moving into, can feel really.
(07:19):
It's like a desperate energy almostif you don't know how to accept
it or embrace it or step intothe beautiful energy of trust.
And so over the last week, I'm havingto learn how to access these different
levels of trust within myself to beable to hold myself in this in-between
(07:43):
moment, this in-between space.
And the thing with transformation andbecoming and being in these middle moments
is that there's no, there's no realdefined length of time that that takes.
Sometimes that in-between space can happenin a nano moment of this is who I was.
(08:07):
This is the realization,here's the energy, here is the
stage that I'm moving into.
Bang, I'm shifting.
Whereas other times it can last a lotlonger, and so it's been a week now since
a lot of this stuff has unfolded andI've had to have some big conversations
with not only myself, but others aroundme around this is how I'm feeling.
(08:28):
I'm realizing that all of the thingsthat I've said that I've done, that I've
prided myself on up until now, perhaps,aren't the things that are gonna get
me to this beautiful next level ofexistence that I can feel that is on
the other side of this transformation,of this liminal moment of becoming.
(08:51):
But I just don't knowexactly what that is.
But I can feel it.
And that's one of the things whyharnessing and harvesting trust
in this period and in this time,is absolutely imperative because
without trust, trust me, the feelingsthat get left are helplessness,
(09:13):
uh, loneliness, uh, desperation.
Are abandonment.
There can be so many different facetsof emotions like this that surface up
and surface up and become the realitythey become, almost the mind wants to
latch onto them and say, well, thisis, this is all there is here now.
(09:34):
The brain is so much more comfortablehaving an emotion or having an a,
a belief or a state, even if thatis a negative state, than it is to
just be in the space of trust of, Idon't know, but it's gonna be okay.
Humans are wired to have something.
(09:54):
So definite that the brain willautomatically try and attach itself to
something logical, to something tangible.
Like I said, even if it is heavy,even if it is emotional, to explain
the state, to have somethingrather than just an emptiness of.
I'm in the becoming.
I am in the middle, and that's why tryingto find a way to be able to trust that,
(10:20):
to breathe, to relax, to just be like,I don't know what, but I let it go.
I let it go so that I can really.
Be truly in this moment of becoming,and I know, I know, I know.
I know.
Sometimes this sounds like, like justthis airy fairy foofy kind of like, yeah,
(10:42):
great, but that's not how my mind works.
Like I understand that that issomething that can come up with an
absolute force when you hear concepts.
this.
Like when someone says just trust you.
Sometimes you just wannapunch 'em in the face.
And I get that.
(11:02):
I get that because I've been there.
And that if you're being activatedin any way with what I'm saying
here and you're just like, can Ijust punch this lady in the face?
Because this whole concept of like justletting go and trusting is like crazy.
Just know that there is absolute beautyand all of this stuff being surfaced in
(11:27):
this space, in this in-between space ofthe not knowing and the needing to know
that is actually a beautiful guidepostto bring you back to the trust, to
really hear beyond the words that I'msaying to the energy to the truth that
lies beyond the words that I'm saying.
To get to that point oflike, yeah, she's right.
(11:48):
There is trust that can be harnessedhere because I know, I feel that feeling
deep in your gut, deep inside your bones,everything that is you, and everything
that is beyond your physical form.
There is this knowing of like, yeah.
Yeah, she's right.
There is something there.
(12:09):
Even if I can't tangibly draw it,see it, guarantee it, know it.
I know that it's comingand I know that it is real.
And so I'm going to harness theonly thing that I can right now
in this moment, and that is trust.
And so even though I know this moment isfor me coming back to my story and sitting
(12:29):
here right now telling this to you, Idon't know what is on the other side.
And the season here in Melbourneit's gray and it's cold, and
it's windy and it's rainy.
It's so easy for me to fall intoa state that really matches that.
Closed contraction, cold type environment.
(12:51):
I'm allowing myself to just breatheand know beyond the clouds of sunshine,
beyond this transformational moment issomething that is worth waiting for.
It is worth allowing myself to be in themuck to allow the emotion to come up.
Some days I'll just sit withthis and I will just cry.
Like, I will just burst outinto tears and cry and sob.
(13:15):
And so, but sometimes I'll be by myselfand sometimes there'll be others around.
Quite often it's my husband.
He'll just look at melike, what's going on?
I like, I don't know.
Just, just another layer that needs to becleared for me to get back to my trust.
You know, that this is all for me.
That everything that is unfoldingright now is, for me, it's either
(13:39):
clearing something from the past, it'sshowing me a fear that I've got, you
know, there was a fear that reallywhen I was sitting in this muck today,
just before hitting record on thispodcast, I was journaling in my diary.
Journaling in my journal, Ishould say, um, about what I'm
feeling and what's going on.
And one of the things thatcame up was this sense of,
(14:04):
ugh, I just feel so ordinary.
Like I just feel so, so ordinary,so in so much in the unknown that I
don't even know how to define myself.
I can define how I'mfeeling, but I can't define.
Exactly what it is that's goingon, and I just feel so ordinary.
And I realized as I dug deeperinto that, that I have been
(14:27):
carrying a fear of being ordinary.
And that's why right now in this modeand this moment that I'm in, where these
feeling of being so ordinary is reallyrising to the surface and activating me
in the biggest way is because I didn'trealize that I had spent so much time,
(14:48):
deep down, intrinsically and unconsciouslybeing afraid of being ordinary.
And so therefore, I'm always in thedoing, always in the studying, the
learning, the perfecting, the elevating,and not so much just elevating from
an energy perspective, because I doa lot in that space, but this need to
(15:09):
elevate from a expertise level to not beordinary so that I don't get rejected.
When I dug deeper into this feeling andI was working with my guides and angels
to try and uncover what is this aboutbeing ordinary that I am so terrified
of, and that's why I'm struggling in thisvoid and this liminal space, because all
(15:31):
of a sudden it's like, there's just me.
There's just me in this ordinariness.
It's like, oh my goodness, I'm feared.
I have a fear of being.
Lost in the crowd, or worse rejected bythe crowd because I had wrapped around
this energy of ordinary, the abilityfor others to decide whether or not I am
(15:57):
good enough, whether or not I have value.
And so it's like trying toescape or avoid being labeled.
Ordinary by others.
This term feels like I,it's a very external term.
It's a term that's determined by others.
I've given the power of decision andacceptance away to other people, and
(16:20):
so therefore, it's like they havethe power to decide whether I'm good
enough or whether I am ordinary,and that is a very difficult emotion
to have to give away to others.
and this can happen so subtly I hadno idea that I had actually attributed
(16:42):
not only a definition to ordinary butI'd also given so much power away and
the fear of being judged, of being.
rejected was so overwhelmingthat I have forever been running
away from being ordinary.
(17:03):
I know I've had a lot of experiencesin this lifetime about being
rejected, particularly in primaryschool and secondary school,
just based on my appearance.
You know, I was always the chubby kid.
The nerdy kid, the, the quieter shy kidbecause I had my voice shut down very
early on that I retreated and then wouldtry and be cool and try and pretend, try
(17:28):
and put masks on to, you know, fit in.
But I would always be rejected.
And, and to reinforce thisbehavior of being ordinary is bad
because the others have the power.
The other has to have the power to decideon whether I'm worthy, whether I'm good
enough, whether I'm worth being here.
And that energy started so, so earlyon for me that I know that it also
(17:53):
is carried through from past lives.
There's so been so many lifetimes thatI've lived where this, this need to
not be ordinary or to, to avoid beingrejected from a societal group, it's
so powerful that it's played on through.
And so sitting with this now,it's like, I need to be an expert.
(18:14):
I need to be well educated.
I need to continue to prove my value.
It's like, oh my goodness.
This desperation of not being ordinary isparticularly in any of those periods of
void or liminal space or transformationalspace that I've been in when I've moved
(18:35):
through different transitions in mylifetime, it's like, oh my goodness.
I was definitely terrifiedof showing anything too real.
Not so much hiding or faking, butlike wanting to make sure things were
framed in the right way, just to showthat I'm worth being listened to or
(18:58):
I'm worth being here, particularly asa mentor, particularly as a leader.
And so a lot of these earlier stuff Ireflect back on now and it's like, oh
my gosh, everything that I said was trueand real in that I had this beautiful
intention of helping others, but therewas this energy there of like, oh, but
I, I don't wanna say it in that way, justin case people think that I'm ordinary.
(19:21):
'cause I can't be ordinary'cause I'll be rejected.
It's like this incredible spiral thatkind of came down and came around.
But I needed to be in, coming back to thevoid I needed to be in the void space.
To be able to really understand and unpacksome of that and see some of the things
(19:42):
so clearly, because When we're in the,the 2D reality of being who we are or the
3D reality I should say, of being who weare in the, the material physical world.
Some of these traits and someof these behaviors are just so
deeply unconscious and embeddedwithin us that we can't see them.
(20:02):
I didn't know I was running away frombeing ordinary, uh, so much until I
was in this space of completely lookingand stripping back and understanding
what I'd built around me, what I'dbuilt within me, what I'd built as
the layers of armor that I wore, themasks that I wore into the society.
(20:27):
It wasn't until deciding and having thosecompletely stripped back and stripped
bare to be able to say, okay, what ishere for me to see it and for me to feel
when I went to say something or went tojournal something and felt that resistance
around, oh, but that's ordinary.
That's plain.
And be like, okay.
(20:47):
Mm-hmm.
All right, honey, show me whatis here to really see that.
And so trusting.
There's a reason why we're in thisvoid space and that there's this time
and space to finally strip back all ofthis stuff is so incredibly powerful.
Coming back to that question of like,if this is for me, then now what?
(21:10):
For me then now what?
Even though though it's not a practical,go and do this thing or build this offer
or take this, step, you know, that I don'tnecessarily have the action-based clarity.
The now what for me is very much inthat excavation space of what is here.
(21:30):
Particularly what is here that I no longerwanna carry forward into this new version
of who I'm becoming because I firmlybelieve that the universe, my angels, my
guardians, are making me do this so thatthat new version that I step into can not
only be revealed to me, but can be real.
(21:52):
And can be fulfilling and deep andsomething that I am really excited
and proud of stepping forward as.
And so that for me, if this isfor me now, what is like, okay.
I just need to sit with this.
I need to make sure that my journalingpractice is there, my meditation
(22:13):
practice, my movement practice, myphotography practice, all of these little
things that come back to the realnessthat is me, that helps me excavate
these emotions that keep coming up.
You know, like what is this for?
How is this for me?
What is this showing me?
(22:33):
And allowing these.
Beautiful practices to just strip awayand reveal, like panning for gold, you
know, just panning, panning, panning,letting the water and the stones just
agitate through so that the thingsthat need to rise to the surface can.
Then I can choose what I carry forward.
(22:53):
I choose not to carry forward this fear ofbeing ordinary because it is so deeply and
intrinsically important to me to be real.
And that's what I sat with thismorning when I was journaling.
It's like, what if I replacedthe word ordinary with real?
Rather than I, I'mafraid of being ordinary.
(23:16):
It's like I'm afraid of not beingreal, of not being able to share these
vulnerable moments, these real authenticmoments, because I truly believe that
these are the things that are in the mostservice to me, and by being in the most
service to me, they are then in the mostservice to you and to us as a whole, as
(23:38):
a collective, because I truly, at thebottom of everything when I look down
and deep and really ask myself what itis that I want to spend the rest of my
years doing, it's to be in service for usand not just in service for someone else.
(24:00):
For an external validationfor a great job, Andi, you're
very wise and you helped me.
You are amazing because that again,is giving my power away to others
to then validate me or, give methat reassurance that I have value.
It's like, no, I'm taking myvalue meter or my worth meter,
(24:24):
so to say, back for myself.
And I am deciding through the actionsof service, of clarity, of being real,
of showing up and saying the thingsthat are real and true for me in the
moments, is being in service to us.
(24:45):
It is the thing that I choose to doand then choose to value that myself.
And really spending the time in thisvoid space of like taking back my value
meter, taking back the, the criteria,the decision making of whether I have
value or not, and taking that backfor myself and, in doing that, by
(25:12):
allowing myself to have my own back,to have my own sense of self-worth
and what is true and what is real,then I know I'll know what to become.
Then I'll know what is on the otherside of this period, this period of
becoming, because I'll be able to stepinto that next version of, action.
(25:33):
The, the actual doing stuff, whetherit's where I live, where I travel to the
office that I have, whether I go back and,collaborate or work with someone else,
whether I continue on my own journey,whether it's my photography and writing,
that becomes the thing like whateverthat action based decision and step is,
(25:54):
it will be done because I've chosen thatI have value and that I have worth, and
then everything that I do will come from aplace that can then help and serve others
because if I do that, I know deep down,and it's so, it feels so ugly to have to
admit, but if I try to serve from a placewhere I need you, you who's listening
(26:18):
to, to say, oh, great job, Andrea.
Love that episode well done.
Or if I try to show up and serve froma space of just needing that, that
knowing of doing something from someoneelse so that they are better to fulfill
or be the reason that gives me value.
It's comes from the wrong place.
(26:40):
And it can be very confusingbecause it's like, well, if you
are in service to others, that isselfless and therefore that is good.
So are you saying thatyou don't wanna do that?
I'm like, no.
I wanna do it from a place that I amdoing it because I know that I have value.
From the words that I'm sayingfrom me, I have value rather
(27:03):
than do you think I have value?
It's just shifting the energy flow ofwhere the decision making of whether I'm
worthy or not comes from, so that when Ido show up to serve, it's like from this
beautiful place of wholeness of, I'vedecided that I belong here in this world.
I've decided that it's not worth givingup on that, that those moments when it's
(27:27):
really dark and it's really heavy and theemotion comes at you, it's like it's worth
trusting that there's a reason to hold on.
You know, it comes from that placeof I'm here because I choose to be.
So funny.
A little side note.
My husband and I took a pottery classa couple of years ago for my birthday.
(27:48):
It's one of my favorite things to do.
I love investing in experience as alittle craft, or makers classes or pottery
classes, painting, all that kind of thing.
And he organized for my birthday to takeus to a pinch pot type ceramics class.
And we made these beautifullittle ceramics, I mean.
(28:10):
Beginner level.
They weren't amazing.
But for us, they werereally, really special.
And we love them.
We still use them to this day.
But before they went into the kiln,we had to write with a toothpick,
our name on the bottom of thesebeautiful pieces of ceramics.
And we looked at each other and we'relike, we're gonna write Andi and Matt.
Like that's, we could, butlet's write something fun.
(28:34):
Like if we had a potterybrand, what would it be?
One of our, um, big things that we'vealways said in our relationship is that
we're not here because we need to be.
We are here by choice.
We are here by choice.
And so on the bottom of all of ourceramics at home, if you turn them
(28:55):
over, they say here by choice.
And I think this is such apowerful thing to get into for
ourselves is like, yeah, I'm here.
I'm choosing to be here.
I'm choosing to still stay here.
Particularly for anyone who's ever feltthat, that desperation, that darkness,
(29:16):
that, sense of like, what is the point?
I'm in the void.
I'm in the liminal space.
I, I don't know who I am.
I can't catch my breath.
Everything just feelstoo heavy and too vast.
That saying of I'm here by choice andchoosing to be here and choosing to
navigate that so that you can thenattribute your own self of having
(29:39):
value and bringing that value tothe world is the most valuable thing
that you will ever do for your life.
So I hope that's been helpful.
If you're in the void,no, you're not alone.
I am here with you.
We're gonna keep talking about this.
We're gonna keep moving forward, andwhatever you do, just decide that you
(30:00):
are worth being here, that you are hereby choice, that there is trust that
you can source, and that every movethat you make is getting you closer
to the woman that you are becoming.
I love you and I'll seeyou in the next episode.
Thank you so much fortuning into today's episode.
(30:22):
If you wanna check out all of thebehind the scenes content for this
podcast, make sure you subscribe to mySubstack channel, the Becoming Archive.
You will also be able to find me onThreads and Instagram at andi.matthies.
Make sure you're connected andstay up to date with what's coming.
I'm Andrea Lee Matthies, writer, photographer,
and Clairvoyant Medium, and thisis the Bold, Brave Woman Project.
This podcast is a living, breathing,unfolding of what it really
means to step into our becoming.
Born from the ashes of a failed YouTubechannel, this weekly podcast brings you
real unfiltered moments of failure, ofbravery, and of deep intuitive knowing.
(00:25):
so that you too can step into who you arebecoming with even more trust and bravery.
Let's dive in.
Hello and welcome back to anotherepisode of The Bold, Brave Woman Project.
It's been a really big week, actually,in the last episode, I talked a lot
about this big realization that Ihad at the event that perhaps all the
(00:51):
decisions that I had made and the typeof life that I'd been driving towards.
Really, perhaps wasn't whatI really wanted, and I had
held a lot of realizations.
I'll link in the show notes that episodeif you wanna go back and listen to it.
But over the course of the week, I'vebeen deeply thinking about it and deeply
(01:14):
feeling into that and trying to figureout, well, if not that, then what?
One of my favorite, favorite mentors,Melanie Ann Layer of the AlphaFemme brand.
If you haven't, uh, had Melaniein your world yet, I highly
recommend you check her out.
She's amazing.
But she has one of these incrediblesayings that I really, really love,
(01:37):
and it is, if this is for me, thennow what, Rather than seeing things
happening to us and then startingto try and question those things, or
attribute blame or shame to the eventsthat are happening in our lives.
Having this slight reframe ofsaying, well, if this is for me.
(01:59):
It's almost like it gives us backour power to be able to use whatever
is happening in our world as.
Not just a positive, but a catalystas a driver to either shift us or
heal us or change us or even simplypivot us into a new direction.
(02:21):
Funnily enough, I've used the word simplyin front of the word pivot, which is.
Interesting because sometimes pivotsthat we go through in our lives can
be particularly deep and can canbe completely soul reorienting and
there's nothing simple about that.
But having this abilityto say, this is for me.
(02:44):
This circumstance, this confrontation,this sadness, this fear, all these
things that are being revealedor mirrored back to me is, for
me is such a beautiful place to.
Move into when we wanna naturally go intothat crisis state or that questioning
(03:04):
state, that negative questioning state, Ishould say, in terms of blame attribution,
has been really helpful in me on myjourney because this event that I went to
last week and this whole realization thatI perhaps was, was sleepwalking into a
life that I didn't really want, has beenso helpful to say, okay, this is for me.
(03:26):
For whatever reason, if evenif I can't see it clearly right
now, this that's happening, thisenergy and this redirecting is
for me, it's like, okay, great.
Take a deep breath.
This is for me.
So now what?
So what now do I do?
What is the next thingthat I need to know?
The next thing that I need to lookat, heal, take action around, and it's
(03:51):
a beautiful question that I can poseout to my guide, to my angels, to the
universe, or God, whoever it is that Ifeel drawn to connect with in that moment.
It's like, okay, if thisis for me, then now what?
It's allowing this beautifulopen-ended question to be
reverberated out into the universe.
And sometimes the answers can comequite quickly, like your intuition
(04:15):
will light up and all of a sudden theanswer to that question will come in.
But over the last week, this realdeep realization of I need to do
something significantly different.
I need to look at whoI am, who I have been.
What I've been doing and the directionthat I'm going and really understand
(04:38):
is this, what I want is this versionof me who I truly wanna be and what
is there underneath all of the masks.
And if this is for me.
Then what is here now?
What is the next now thing that Ineed to feel into, look into reorient
(04:59):
so that I can keep moving forward?
And the big question that keepscoming up for me is, what is it
that I actually truly desire?
That is the thing that has been top ofmind for me over the last week since
this big realization and having thesebig conversations with my husband
around, making some significant changesin my lifestyle and the way that I show
(05:25):
up in the world, and I don't actuallyhave the answer to the, now what?
And that can be tricky.
Um, sometimes it can feellike, okay, great, this is
happening for me, but now what?
And when the answer doesn'tcome, it can feel really empty.
It can feel really lonely.
It can feel really, I.
(05:47):
Difficult to navigate into the spaceof not knowing what to do particularly,
um, for someone like me who's beenquite logic based, quite action based,
or having to have the strategy or theknowing of where I'm going to, to be
able to then orient myself around that,and it's placed me very firmly into this
(06:10):
space or the liminal space of the void.
Over the last week, and you might haveheard lots of different people talk
about the void, but for me, the bestway I have found to define it for myself
to kind of bring myself some peace andsome understanding around this phase
is it's the liminal space or the theenergy and the space that we move into.
(06:34):
Not physically, but energetically, andfrom a, a mind and a quantum perspective
of the in-between, between who I havebeen and who I am currently and who I'm
becoming, and being in that void, in thatliminal space can be really challenging.
Particularly, when we don'thave a, or I don't have a clear
(06:57):
view on the, who am I becoming?
And being in a void space, thisliminal space, without that answer,
without a definite picture, image,factual, or known state of what
I'm moving into, can feel really.
(07:19):
It's like a desperate energy almostif you don't know how to accept
it or embrace it or step intothe beautiful energy of trust.
And so over the last week, I'm havingto learn how to access these different
levels of trust within myself to beable to hold myself in this in-between
(07:43):
moment, this in-between space.
And the thing with transformation andbecoming and being in these middle moments
is that there's no, there's no realdefined length of time that that takes.
Sometimes that in-between space can happenin a nano moment of this is who I was.
(08:07):
This is the realization,here's the energy, here is the
stage that I'm moving into.
Bang, I'm shifting.
Whereas other times it can last a lotlonger, and so it's been a week now since
a lot of this stuff has unfolded andI've had to have some big conversations
with not only myself, but others aroundme around this is how I'm feeling.
(08:28):
I'm realizing that all of the thingsthat I've said that I've done, that I've
prided myself on up until now, perhaps,aren't the things that are gonna get
me to this beautiful next level ofexistence that I can feel that is on
the other side of this transformation,of this liminal moment of becoming.
(08:51):
But I just don't knowexactly what that is.
But I can feel it.
And that's one of the things whyharnessing and harvesting trust
in this period and in this time,is absolutely imperative because
without trust, trust me, the feelingsthat get left are helplessness,
(09:13):
uh, loneliness, uh, desperation.
Are abandonment.
There can be so many different facetsof emotions like this that surface up
and surface up and become the realitythey become, almost the mind wants to
latch onto them and say, well, thisis, this is all there is here now.
(09:34):
The brain is so much more comfortablehaving an emotion or having an a,
a belief or a state, even if thatis a negative state, than it is to
just be in the space of trust of, Idon't know, but it's gonna be okay.
Humans are wired to have something.
(09:54):
So definite that the brain willautomatically try and attach itself to
something logical, to something tangible.
Like I said, even if it is heavy,even if it is emotional, to explain
the state, to have somethingrather than just an emptiness of.
I'm in the becoming.
I am in the middle, and that's why tryingto find a way to be able to trust that,
(10:20):
to breathe, to relax, to just be like,I don't know what, but I let it go.
I let it go so that I can really.
Be truly in this moment of becoming,and I know, I know, I know.
I know.
Sometimes this sounds like, like justthis airy fairy foofy kind of like, yeah,
(10:42):
great, but that's not how my mind works.
Like I understand that that issomething that can come up with an
absolute force when you hear concepts.
this.
Like when someone says just trust you.
Sometimes you just wannapunch 'em in the face.
And I get that.
(11:02):
I get that because I've been there.
And that if you're being activatedin any way with what I'm saying
here and you're just like, can Ijust punch this lady in the face?
Because this whole concept of like justletting go and trusting is like crazy.
Just know that there is absolute beautyand all of this stuff being surfaced in
(11:27):
this space, in this in-between space ofthe not knowing and the needing to know
that is actually a beautiful guidepostto bring you back to the trust, to
really hear beyond the words that I'msaying to the energy to the truth that
lies beyond the words that I'm saying.
To get to that point oflike, yeah, she's right.
(11:48):
There is trust that can be harnessedhere because I know, I feel that feeling
deep in your gut, deep inside your bones,everything that is you, and everything
that is beyond your physical form.
There is this knowing of like, yeah.
Yeah, she's right.
There is something there.
(12:09):
Even if I can't tangibly draw it,see it, guarantee it, know it.
I know that it's comingand I know that it is real.
And so I'm going to harness theonly thing that I can right now
in this moment, and that is trust.
And so even though I know this moment isfor me coming back to my story and sitting
(12:29):
here right now telling this to you, Idon't know what is on the other side.
And the season here in Melbourneit's gray and it's cold, and
it's windy and it's rainy.
It's so easy for me to fall intoa state that really matches that.
Closed contraction, cold type environment.
(12:51):
I'm allowing myself to just breatheand know beyond the clouds of sunshine,
beyond this transformational moment issomething that is worth waiting for.
It is worth allowing myself to be in themuck to allow the emotion to come up.
Some days I'll just sit withthis and I will just cry.
Like, I will just burst outinto tears and cry and sob.
(13:15):
And so, but sometimes I'll be by myselfand sometimes there'll be others around.
Quite often it's my husband.
He'll just look at melike, what's going on?
I like, I don't know.
Just, just another layer that needs to becleared for me to get back to my trust.
You know, that this is all for me.
That everything that is unfoldingright now is, for me, it's either
(13:39):
clearing something from the past, it'sshowing me a fear that I've got, you
know, there was a fear that reallywhen I was sitting in this muck today,
just before hitting record on thispodcast, I was journaling in my diary.
Journaling in my journal, Ishould say, um, about what I'm
feeling and what's going on.
And one of the things thatcame up was this sense of,
(14:04):
ugh, I just feel so ordinary.
Like I just feel so, so ordinary,so in so much in the unknown that I
don't even know how to define myself.
I can define how I'mfeeling, but I can't define.
Exactly what it is that's goingon, and I just feel so ordinary.
And I realized as I dug deeperinto that, that I have been
(14:27):
carrying a fear of being ordinary.
And that's why right now in this modeand this moment that I'm in, where these
feeling of being so ordinary is reallyrising to the surface and activating me
in the biggest way is because I didn'trealize that I had spent so much time,
(14:48):
deep down, intrinsically and unconsciouslybeing afraid of being ordinary.
And so therefore, I'm always in thedoing, always in the studying, the
learning, the perfecting, the elevating,and not so much just elevating from
an energy perspective, because I doa lot in that space, but this need to
(15:09):
elevate from a expertise level to not beordinary so that I don't get rejected.
When I dug deeper into this feeling andI was working with my guides and angels
to try and uncover what is this aboutbeing ordinary that I am so terrified
of, and that's why I'm struggling in thisvoid and this liminal space, because all
(15:31):
of a sudden it's like, there's just me.
There's just me in this ordinariness.
It's like, oh my goodness, I'm feared.
I have a fear of being.
Lost in the crowd, or worse rejected bythe crowd because I had wrapped around
this energy of ordinary, the abilityfor others to decide whether or not I am
(15:57):
good enough, whether or not I have value.
And so it's like trying toescape or avoid being labeled.
Ordinary by others.
This term feels like I,it's a very external term.
It's a term that's determined by others.
I've given the power of decision andacceptance away to other people, and
(16:20):
so therefore, it's like they havethe power to decide whether I'm good
enough or whether I am ordinary,and that is a very difficult emotion
to have to give away to others.
and this can happen so subtly I hadno idea that I had actually attributed
(16:42):
not only a definition to ordinary butI'd also given so much power away and
the fear of being judged, of being.
rejected was so overwhelmingthat I have forever been running
away from being ordinary.
(17:03):
I know I've had a lot of experiencesin this lifetime about being
rejected, particularly in primaryschool and secondary school,
just based on my appearance.
You know, I was always the chubby kid.
The nerdy kid, the, the quieter shy kidbecause I had my voice shut down very
early on that I retreated and then wouldtry and be cool and try and pretend, try
(17:28):
and put masks on to, you know, fit in.
But I would always be rejected.
And, and to reinforce thisbehavior of being ordinary is bad
because the others have the power.
The other has to have the power to decideon whether I'm worthy, whether I'm good
enough, whether I'm worth being here.
And that energy started so, so earlyon for me that I know that it also
(17:53):
is carried through from past lives.
There's so been so many lifetimes thatI've lived where this, this need to
not be ordinary or to, to avoid beingrejected from a societal group, it's
so powerful that it's played on through.
And so sitting with this now,it's like, I need to be an expert.
(18:14):
I need to be well educated.
I need to continue to prove my value.
It's like, oh my goodness.
This desperation of not being ordinary isparticularly in any of those periods of
void or liminal space or transformationalspace that I've been in when I've moved
(18:35):
through different transitions in mylifetime, it's like, oh my goodness.
I was definitely terrifiedof showing anything too real.
Not so much hiding or faking, butlike wanting to make sure things were
framed in the right way, just to showthat I'm worth being listened to or
(18:58):
I'm worth being here, particularly asa mentor, particularly as a leader.
And so a lot of these earlier stuff Ireflect back on now and it's like, oh
my gosh, everything that I said was trueand real in that I had this beautiful
intention of helping others, but therewas this energy there of like, oh, but
I, I don't wanna say it in that way, justin case people think that I'm ordinary.
(19:21):
'cause I can't be ordinary'cause I'll be rejected.
It's like this incredible spiral thatkind of came down and came around.
But I needed to be in, coming back to thevoid I needed to be in the void space.
To be able to really understand and unpacksome of that and see some of the things
(19:42):
so clearly, because When we're in the,the 2D reality of being who we are or the
3D reality I should say, of being who weare in the, the material physical world.
Some of these traits and someof these behaviors are just so
deeply unconscious and embeddedwithin us that we can't see them.
(20:02):
I didn't know I was running away frombeing ordinary, uh, so much until I
was in this space of completely lookingand stripping back and understanding
what I'd built around me, what I'dbuilt within me, what I'd built as
the layers of armor that I wore, themasks that I wore into the society.
(20:27):
It wasn't until deciding and having thosecompletely stripped back and stripped
bare to be able to say, okay, what ishere for me to see it and for me to feel
when I went to say something or went tojournal something and felt that resistance
around, oh, but that's ordinary.
That's plain.
And be like, okay.
(20:47):
Mm-hmm.
All right, honey, show me whatis here to really see that.
And so trusting.
There's a reason why we're in thisvoid space and that there's this time
and space to finally strip back all ofthis stuff is so incredibly powerful.
Coming back to that question of like,if this is for me, then now what?
(21:10):
For me then now what?
Even though though it's not a practical,go and do this thing or build this offer
or take this, step, you know, that I don'tnecessarily have the action-based clarity.
The now what for me is very much inthat excavation space of what is here.
(21:30):
Particularly what is here that I no longerwanna carry forward into this new version
of who I'm becoming because I firmlybelieve that the universe, my angels, my
guardians, are making me do this so thatthat new version that I step into can not
only be revealed to me, but can be real.
(21:52):
And can be fulfilling and deep andsomething that I am really excited
and proud of stepping forward as.
And so that for me, if this isfor me now, what is like, okay.
I just need to sit with this.
I need to make sure that my journalingpractice is there, my meditation
(22:13):
practice, my movement practice, myphotography practice, all of these little
things that come back to the realnessthat is me, that helps me excavate
these emotions that keep coming up.
You know, like what is this for?
How is this for me?
What is this showing me?
(22:33):
And allowing these.
Beautiful practices to just strip awayand reveal, like panning for gold, you
know, just panning, panning, panning,letting the water and the stones just
agitate through so that the thingsthat need to rise to the surface can.
Then I can choose what I carry forward.
(22:53):
I choose not to carry forward this fear ofbeing ordinary because it is so deeply and
intrinsically important to me to be real.
And that's what I sat with thismorning when I was journaling.
It's like, what if I replacedthe word ordinary with real?
Rather than I, I'mafraid of being ordinary.
(23:16):
It's like I'm afraid of not beingreal, of not being able to share these
vulnerable moments, these real authenticmoments, because I truly believe that
these are the things that are in the mostservice to me, and by being in the most
service to me, they are then in the mostservice to you and to us as a whole, as
(23:38):
a collective, because I truly, at thebottom of everything when I look down
and deep and really ask myself what itis that I want to spend the rest of my
years doing, it's to be in service for usand not just in service for someone else.
(24:00):
For an external validationfor a great job, Andi, you're
very wise and you helped me.
You are amazing because that again,is giving my power away to others
to then validate me or, give methat reassurance that I have value.
It's like, no, I'm taking myvalue meter or my worth meter,
(24:24):
so to say, back for myself.
And I am deciding through the actionsof service, of clarity, of being real,
of showing up and saying the thingsthat are real and true for me in the
moments, is being in service to us.
(24:45):
It is the thing that I choose to doand then choose to value that myself.
And really spending the time in thisvoid space of like taking back my value
meter, taking back the, the criteria,the decision making of whether I have
value or not, and taking that backfor myself and, in doing that, by
(25:12):
allowing myself to have my own back,to have my own sense of self-worth
and what is true and what is real,then I know I'll know what to become.
Then I'll know what is on the otherside of this period, this period of
becoming, because I'll be able to stepinto that next version of, action.
(25:33):
The, the actual doing stuff, whetherit's where I live, where I travel to the
office that I have, whether I go back and,collaborate or work with someone else,
whether I continue on my own journey,whether it's my photography and writing,
that becomes the thing like whateverthat action based decision and step is,
(25:54):
it will be done because I've chosen thatI have value and that I have worth, and
then everything that I do will come from aplace that can then help and serve others
because if I do that, I know deep down,and it's so, it feels so ugly to have to
admit, but if I try to serve from a placewhere I need you, you who's listening
(26:18):
to, to say, oh, great job, Andrea.
Love that episode well done.
Or if I try to show up and serve froma space of just needing that, that
knowing of doing something from someoneelse so that they are better to fulfill
or be the reason that gives me value.
It's comes from the wrong place.
(26:40):
And it can be very confusingbecause it's like, well, if you
are in service to others, that isselfless and therefore that is good.
So are you saying thatyou don't wanna do that?
I'm like, no.
I wanna do it from a place that I amdoing it because I know that I have value.
From the words that I'm sayingfrom me, I have value rather
(27:03):
than do you think I have value?
It's just shifting the energy flow ofwhere the decision making of whether I'm
worthy or not comes from, so that when Ido show up to serve, it's like from this
beautiful place of wholeness of, I'vedecided that I belong here in this world.
I've decided that it's not worth givingup on that, that those moments when it's
(27:27):
really dark and it's really heavy and theemotion comes at you, it's like it's worth
trusting that there's a reason to hold on.
You know, it comes from that placeof I'm here because I choose to be.
So funny.
A little side note.
My husband and I took a pottery classa couple of years ago for my birthday.
(27:48):
It's one of my favorite things to do.
I love investing in experience as alittle craft, or makers classes or pottery
classes, painting, all that kind of thing.
And he organized for my birthday to takeus to a pinch pot type ceramics class.
And we made these beautifullittle ceramics, I mean.
(28:10):
Beginner level.
They weren't amazing.
But for us, they werereally, really special.
And we love them.
We still use them to this day.
But before they went into the kiln,we had to write with a toothpick,
our name on the bottom of thesebeautiful pieces of ceramics.
And we looked at each other and we'relike, we're gonna write Andi and Matt.
Like that's, we could, butlet's write something fun.
(28:34):
Like if we had a potterybrand, what would it be?
One of our, um, big things that we'vealways said in our relationship is that
we're not here because we need to be.
We are here by choice.
We are here by choice.
And so on the bottom of all of ourceramics at home, if you turn them
(28:55):
over, they say here by choice.
And I think this is such apowerful thing to get into for
ourselves is like, yeah, I'm here.
I'm choosing to be here.
I'm choosing to still stay here.
Particularly for anyone who's ever feltthat, that desperation, that darkness,
(29:16):
that, sense of like, what is the point?
I'm in the void.
I'm in the liminal space.
I, I don't know who I am.
I can't catch my breath.
Everything just feelstoo heavy and too vast.
That saying of I'm here by choice andchoosing to be here and choosing to
navigate that so that you can thenattribute your own self of having
(29:39):
value and bringing that value tothe world is the most valuable thing
that you will ever do for your life.
So I hope that's been helpful.
If you're in the void,no, you're not alone.
I am here with you.
We're gonna keep talking about this.
We're gonna keep moving forward, andwhatever you do, just decide that you
(30:00):
are worth being here, that you are hereby choice, that there is trust that
you can source, and that every movethat you make is getting you closer
to the woman that you are becoming.
I love you and I'll seeyou in the next episode.
Thank you so much fortuning into today's episode.
(30:22):
If you wanna check out all of thebehind the scenes content for this
podcast, make sure you subscribe to mySubstack channel, the Becoming Archive.
You will also be able to find me onThreads and Instagram at andi.matthies.
Make sure you're connected andstay up to date with what's coming.
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