Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I do improv. That's my thing. Actually, I really learned to adore
like improv comedians. I look atthe technique. You see the people come
in from stage and then they don'tknow what they're going to say. They've
been rehearsing every single part a lot, so when the moment comes, he
can pull out the trick from theirfrom their heart and do it. Today,
(00:22):
I sit down with David Quartier,Yes, co founder of Arduino,
the widely popular open source electronics developmentplatform. David is not only a brilliant
engineer, he's also a gifted educatorwho has been a lecturer at Malmo University
in Sweden since two thousand. He'swritten several books on programming and travels internationally
to speak to the value of opensource hardware and steam education. Today we
(00:44):
talk all about the importance of educationand how he developed his unique and effective
teaching style. We'll also discuss thedifficulties in distilling down complex ideas and how
improv can make you a better communicator. Here's my conversation with David Quartier.
Yes, we live in a timewhere design and technology touch every aspect of
(01:08):
our lives, but where did itall come from? Who designed it,
how is it built and brought tomarket? What will it look like in
a year, two years, onehundred years. From the phones and smart
watches that help us in our dayto day to the cutting edge spaceships and
three D printers that are leading usinto the future. Modern design is constantly
shaping the way we work, communicate, problem solve, and play. And
every new design, bigger, small, starts with an idea and a bill
(01:30):
of materials. I'm a genta strongheart, and this is the Bomb where we
talk to leading innovators in the techworld and celebrate the transformational power of design.
Have you been on your partner's podcast? Oh it's for women technically,
(01:51):
right, Sorry, I forgot it'sfor women musicians specifically. Yeah, no
one allow us past. It's actuallygreat, well attended. Nice. I
just check it out. I'm sinking. I'm just very lucky of being able
to supporting her. It's like shestarted three years ago, more or less,
(02:12):
like she was like, I reallyhave to do something, because she
was the main designer of a book, Our History of Electronic Music in Mexico.
Oh that's awesome, And but thatshe realized it was very conflicted because
they were only like two women orsomething in the book. And as she
was making the layout, she wastalking to the researcher that was the author
of the book, and she realizedthat he's not he was intentionally really leaving
(02:37):
people out, but he was notreally given their importance to the people and
to the things that have been happening. Because she was very active doing visuals
at concerts and sometimes playing herself,so she knew there were other women,
but they didn't show there and andso she was She spent years being frustrated
about it until she said, like, Okay, I have to do something
about it. I will start apodcast where I will contact people that I
(03:00):
know and I will tell their storyor even better, I will let them
tell their own stories. So willShe doesn't have like a set frame of
questions like and so she creates avery intimate kind of atmosphere where she perbout
an hour and they spend one hourlistening to music and like a radio show
too, yes it's a radio andshe really she makes it life now.
(03:23):
And the beginning was making it liveor the technology didn't really help them.
We figure out the betther setup.But then she decided to prerecord the programs
because also there is a problem becausepeople are typically Latin America, so the
time is bad. She's on theear on Thursdays, and this means people
are maybe like having lunch, andthen she and they might not be at
the right place to have this kindof intimacy you need for the call Russian.
(03:44):
So she was recording, but thena lot of these people are actually
abroad, and that's one of thepoints, right, Like in order to
produce electronic experimental music or experimental musicin general, women need to leave the
country so so she can catch upwith them, like they're in the States,
in Canada, in German, Italyfriends. You know, it's really
interesting and she really puts a lotof work in it, Like she makes
(04:06):
like a new Coverse with chapter shewas like a short story about the person.
And then she's in the making ofa book. Hopefully, I mean
she's witching now the pro product constant, so hopefully will become something very big
cool. That's really awesome. Idefinitely want to check it out. And
I wonder if I know a friendof mine in LA since you said it
(04:29):
is kind of global, I don'tknow if she would qualify exactly. But
she makes electronic music and she's Mexican, and the two important factors. I'm
trying to find her. But sheactually made the ore like jingle for the
podcast, so we recruited her todo that, which is really below her
(04:51):
talent level, but she was niceenough to do it for us. If
you want to send me the contact, yeah, I will send it to
Lauda and then she will No,I'll definitely find it. Who lives Anna,
but I'll send it over. Sothe right now the setup that a
lot of has, it's like aroad there, like a road like a
mix a board that's special for I'mmixed minus, so you can have like
(05:15):
the life calls I'm Pretty music backto the person that he's been interviewed and
so on. So it's a it'sa pretty like rough set up because he
also has to stream against a serverthat is in Mexico and then from there
it's like stream from a website.There is a nopal or radial just the
radio, so it does go onlike a radio show that it goes like
a radio show on a website.Yeah. That where there's a lot of
(05:38):
old people that are doing this.So it's a radio collective with I think
it's like twenty something programs and there'sthey're trying to fill in the food programming
for twenty four hours, seven daysa week. So it's a it's a
lot. And does she do itweekly? No, she does. She
does buy weekly right now, Imean making it weekly. It's also a
(05:58):
problem for the family. It's somuch worse for her. I mean she
actually works one day a week withthis four days a week, I don't
know, more work, Okay.Yeah, so she actually went down in
her working hours to be able todoin this show. Well, that's good
that she's able to do that.Yea. Also because she was she's very
serious about it, so she hasn'tshe's taking the opportunity and her salaries really
(06:18):
well. So yeah, it allowsus to really like to do it definitely.
Yeah. When we first started thispodcast, the producer was like,
you really need to do it weeklybecause in the podcast world, like it's
just you're gonna it's gonna help itgrow, Like you can't do it monthly
or whatever, which would have beenmy preference at the beginning, because I'm
(06:39):
like, well, I have afull time job. But it's also really
fun because It's like, it's oneof my favorite parts of my job because
I get to have interesting conversations withinteresting people, you know, and so
I don't want to lose out onthat. So it's been worth it to
do it weekly. But sometimes it'sso stressful because it's like, you know,
we're chasing the We tried i'd getthem ahead of the season starting when
(07:00):
we started this year. So itstarted a year and a half ago now,
And when we first started, wewere maybe like ten episodes ahead in
the first season, and I wasdecent. But then this year I was
like, I really want to getfurther ahead, so I don't want to
stress. The whole time we hadmaybe fifteen it wasn't a ton, and
then once we got started, itjust caught up so quickly the actual you
know, live week. I thinknow we're like four weeks ahead, which
(07:23):
is decent, but it's a constant. Yeah, And I know what it
is. I was making a podcastwith a friend until Antis Kid and we
will I mean, we were makinglike tech news for makers in Spanish,
and so we were collecting the newsfor of the week and we'll get hundreds
(07:44):
of followers like to listen to it. Live. So once we we did
it while driving a car to anevent like live from the car and things
like this look really crazy. Wedid a little things, but in regards
out of coats and some things likecome along in life and if actually it's
not anything you actually are paid for, it becomes a problem because you have
(08:07):
no excuse to don't do the otherthing actually pays your working hours exactly.
You need that accountability piece. Yeah, so I am lucky it's part of
my job, but it was anadd on to a full time job I
already. Yeah, so you know, it's all about prioritizing, which is
actually a nice segue to one ofthe questions I wanted to ask you,
because you do. I mean,even in the short time we spent together,
(08:30):
I can see you do a lot. You really manage so many different
projects, different initiatives. You have, you know, a hand in a
lot of things going on, andas you mentioned yesterday, you're someone that
when people work with they want toinvite you back to do more pretty often.
Right, So how do you manageyour time and kind of select which
projects you're really interested in working on? You're going to prioritize what commitments that
(08:52):
you're going to focus on gasold.I don't necessarily prioritize projects based on the
out so on my outcome, Imean either economic or coverage. Some people
are very strategic and they think like, oh, I have to do this
predect because instead of a hundred peoplesee me, with a thousand people seeing
me, instead of making one hundreddollars, I will make ten thousand dollars,
(09:15):
you know, So that's never beenmy goal. I do praise.
I know I'm going to make ata loss just because I find them interesting.
I want to learn about what itmeans. And sometimes I make prays
with just two people because they needit and don't care that nobody else will
see it. They willn't be publishanywhere. So I typically decide not starily
based on feeling, but I thinkbased on the need and example, when
(09:37):
I decided to commit to Arduino,I was on my way to have like
a decent career as an academic andmedia artist. And even though it was
just starting as a media artist,I was in that phase where things that
really started, We're starting to click, Like I hadn't really found my expression
yet, but through electronics, Iwas coming to something that really felt like,
(10:00):
Okay, I'm you know, tenmonths away of an exhibition, like
something that will work. Yeah,But then I realized, like, oh
my god, this is are doingno things looks like so much more important,
Like I can help people doing things. So instead of like thinking about
my own career as a media artists, I thought like, but I can
help people with this, And somy way of waiting what was more important
(10:26):
was based on who would benefit fromit. Like you know, I thought
like, yeah, media art cansatisfy my ego, but these things can't
help people learn, So what's best? And then I understood if I do
this properly, I cannot do thisother thing properly. It doesn't really compute.
(10:46):
There's not enough time in a dayto do all things. So I
was when I work really hard,and sometimes I could work like three weeks
weekends included twenty hours a day andsleeping for hours, I have done it.
At the same time, when Iarrest, I really arrest, and
I shut everything down and I disconnectand I am there for my family and
(11:07):
my friends and whatnot. So sofor that reason, I think when I
choose, I also choose things thatI know what I can accomplish, which
is hard to say because in thisside, never think he's ever done.
Right. You will take all thetime that you're given to do something.
I think with when it comes todesign or art or creating something. Yeah,
I remember a professor I used tohave always saying make the time,
(11:30):
you have enough time. But it'slike you will always feel all the time
that you're given for something until thefinal deadline, right, Yeah, definitely,
Like you said, the work cansometimes never be done. But that's
really interesting. I think that,like you said, that's a hard decision
for a lot of people to maketo choose something. You know, that's
(11:50):
maybe it's it has to do withthe bigger picture and how it's going to
make more of an impact rather than, like you said, kind of may
be satisfying your ego or something thatyou're really passionate about in a moment.
I mean, that's really hard tradeoff to make. Do you think since
since Ardrio, you know, hasbeen more established, have you been able
to give back to the media artside of things personally or have you really
(12:13):
kind of let it go? AndYeah, I definitely let it go.
I wouldn't say it looks interesting.I'm very interested. I like to go
to the venues and see the exhibitionsand talk to people. And I have
friends that stayed there and they continueto do things there, and I keep
on meeting new people that are doingcrazy things and amazing work. But at
(12:35):
the same time, it's a it'sa world that requires a huge effort.
You have to build the contacts,you have to be at the galleries,
you have to make something that isinteresting, and it's in the political discourse
of the moment that people can reallyrelate to. And with media, artists
even more complicated because you know,the traditional art in the sense that you
(12:58):
indultedly that the only has with usfor a long time, people don't necessarily
understand it as a way to expresslet's say, the same thing you will
do express with a sculpture or apainting. So so it is complicated,
and I really really admire people thathave been devoted to this and I have
been put in effort and end uphaving getting good results because it's really hard.
(13:18):
Definitely, So yeah to the question, it's like, yeah, it
would be really hard for me togo back. Also because the last twenty
years, well since I started afifteen years and specialized very much in the
pedagogics of technology. Like like maybemy painting is that I can make a
sketch of one day workshop, threedays workshop, a five days workshop,
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and I can't prepare it in acouple of hours, you know, exactly.
So so that's my skill. Ithas become my skill, and I
learned to live with that and acceptthat. You know, It's I don't
see it like as a loss.I see it. That's like I made
a choice, and I'm glad that'sthe choice it made. No. I
can appreciate that because I feel similarlysometimes with the work that I do.
(14:00):
You know, I thought when Igraduated, I was going to be doing
furniture design full time, Like thatwas the dream, make furniture, and
you know, maybe I'll do itsomeday. But I've found through this role,
you know, that I really likelearning about how to make things right,
like being in the shop using thetools and learning from others how they're
innovating with these tools, with whatthey're creating, having these conversations with people
(14:22):
who are really passionate about the workthey do, and then organizing community events
and being able to spread kind ofaccess to technology or to design thinking or
to these different you know, focusesthat design lab has and in the way,
yeah, I feel like that's myart practice now, you know,
like that's the way that I canbe creative and yeah, make something in
(14:46):
collaboration with others that feels impactful,and I think it's yeah, something that
a lot of people go through.And so a big focus of yours,
in addition to our do we know, is what you in education? You
are an incredible educator, not onlyI think at the university level, which
I've been learning more about since wemet yesterday, but even beyond to all
(15:09):
of the work that you do acrossthe world through these workshops, through working
with different schools, nonprofits, governmentgroups all around. And so I would
love to hear just why you think. It sounds like maybe a basic question,
but why is education important? Whatdo you think it really does for
(15:30):
students? You know so well Iam, I think I would say,
first of all, I always alwayswanted to be a teacher. That was
something that was on my plate forever. Like when I was a student at
the university, I realized that someof the these are hardware amazing in transmitting
very complex concepts. I had thisteacher that who was working with It's called
(15:52):
crayons in English, right, andthey want a blackboard. He quit chuck,
so he had like he would painted. He would paint like later magnetive
fills with truck in five colors andyou would look at it was like crazy.
It was impossible to copy that wellon a paper. And this guy
would come and he would prepare hisclass and come he had really prepared the
(16:18):
things so he would make it inhis two hours, like he knew exactly
what he was going to say fromthe beginning to the end. And it's
like a performance. And if youthink about it like a traditional good teacher,
it's kind of like it's a performer. It's like he comes, makes
a concert and probably recent years hehas a better concert. Some years has
a worst concert because whatever reason.But he has been rehearsing a lot.
(16:41):
He's been doing a year after year. And that's what he was to say,
And what's a joke when he needsto crack the exact joke, you
know, And and I really admired, and I was like, this is
what I want to be. Idreamed like this is what I wanted to
be, Like you know, it'slike, yeah, I want to do
technology. I want to canology toend up in everybody's pockets. But for
real, when I've done the technology, I want to be able to sit
(17:03):
in a class with hundred people andexplaining them how they can do the same
thing. And so when I waswhen I was graduating from my masters in
the in the old and the oldstudy system in Spain, you will go
straight for masters. So when Ifinish my masters, I say, I
(17:23):
don't manic, so I really wantto run for a PhD. I want
to be a teacher. Told melike, well, you know what,
going to the market or for threeyears and then you think about it.
And because I'm a very restless person, like like, I can't do a
lot of stuff and I can achievea lot of things in parallel, and
they thought like, yeah, youwill not last two days to interesting.
(17:45):
They didn't want to tell this tome directly, but I could see in
their eyes that were really thinking likethat. And I was like, well,
I cannot really start a PhD withwithout their without their blessings, so
I should at least try to dowhat they're telling me to do, right,
So I went into the market andI went to my first job,
and I lasted twelve months exactly.And I went to my second job.
I lasted nine months. And thenI got offered to come to Student to
(18:08):
become a teacher when I was twentyfour, and I was like, okay,
this is it, and so Irelocated here. And suddenly I realized
how amazingly hard it is to runthose classes that these guys were running.
I was asked to teach programming toart and design students. Nobody had been
doing this before, there were nobooks about it, so I had to
invent everything from scratch. There weresome guys, like the guys from the
(18:30):
processing project that had been doing thisbefore, and at my tea, I
had been experimented with this, butI was not aware of that. You
know. I had like nowhere,no place were to pull from, and
and bailed the secret and oh,this is the book that will help me
starting from scratch. You were writingthe book. Yeah, I was teaching
them Java, and which I waskind of like mandatory from the school.
(18:52):
They asked me to teach them thesethings the most academic language right now,
and so on and and and itwas really hard to tell you, like,
but I very like in the beginningof I mean I was forced,
not forced. I was asked tostart start teaching, like the week after
I arrived, so I have tobe creating the course. I was running
the course because I was going toask I love the analogy of the you
(19:17):
know the way someone teaches to performancegiving a performance, and I think that's
that's really accurate. And so Iwas going to say, do you you
know, rehearse your courses when youteach them, but for this one,
you didn't have any time. Ilearned I do improv. That's my thing,
and I actually I really learned toadore like improv improv comedians because but
(19:42):
but it's my wife and my kids. They think is because I like really
bad comedian artists. But it's notfor that reason. I look at the
technique you respect that they can getout there and do it a life.
It's amazing. It's amazing things likeyou see the people coming on stage and
then they don't know what they're gonnasay. They've been rehearsing every single part
(20:03):
a lot, so when the momentcomes, you can pull out the trick
from their from their heart and doit. But so what I do is
I rehearse things, but I don'tstand at my place like cracking the joke
and laughing at myself. What Ido is that I do a lot of
likes that I chose, and Iknow kind of like the storyline on how
(20:25):
to reach a complex thing, andso I rehearse the story in telling that
very complex thing. And I triedonce with a group of students, and
if it doesn't really work properly,I fix it. I literate it exactly
and I make it better. Andof course some classes I've done it so
many times. At that point,I was teaching the basic Cardino Introduction workshop
(20:48):
like three or four times per term. So I was once making a joke
to a professor I made it tospell and which is one of the founders
of the Malmo University. I waslike asking him, like, how many
times you teach this class it's ona certain topic that he's really excellent at
teaching for me like once every year, Like, well, I'm teaching there
no workshop like three or four timesper term, So technically I could retire
(21:12):
by the time I'm at forty seven. If I have to account and monetime,
you will make your lecture and compasmake my lecture right, You're like,
I've completed the ten thousand hours,I'm an expert. Now, I'm
definitely an expert that so, butI still remember when when I designed the
first start doing a workshop. Thatwas like so intense because like I was
(21:33):
like, we made the first artof doing awards and they were based on
the teaching we had done until then, but we had never really been teaching
this to anybody. And and sowe want to teach this workshop in in
in Spain at an art center thatdoesn't exist longer called Madrid, and they
told me you want to have thirtystudents. I was like, okay,
(21:53):
I need to have a staff forthirty people. So which are like there?
I remember myself thinking like, okay, we're going to teach them.
I'm going to teach them interaction conceptsor I'm going to teach them like low
level technology or and it's a mixof both. It's not exactly one thing
or the other. So you reallyneed to figure out what is I going
to tell them so you can capturetheir attention so I can work with them
(22:15):
for five days. And that wasreally hard. So I planned like the
first three days it's going to belike introduction to stuff. So at the
fourth and fifth day they can builda project. So that kind of like
set the ground for how these workshopshad to be. And the funny thing
I started with thirty On the secondday were thirty five and people the rumor
were splaying among the artists in thecity and more and more people were coming.
So the fourth day they were likefifty eight people. They're like,
(22:37):
I only prepared for thirty. Yeah, I don't know, but they were.
They were teaming up that people wereworking up and they were working together
around one single board and one laptopand then building something together. And then
it's when Gertfrid Stocker came by fromArts Electronica and he he was because he
had really worked relationship with the directorsof the arts and he asked like,
(23:00):
oh, this workshop is interesting forhow is it the first day because there's
a lot of people and the guysthat like, no, it's the last
day, and there's been more morepeople coming every day, and he was
in shock, like, oh,how can you make a workshop ware?
Like so many people actually joins,So he asked me and then that actually
brought me to like you rate asElectronics two thousand and six workshop area,
(23:22):
and I invited a whole bunch ofpeople to come and I said, well,
I would live it with just acondition. You have to give me
free tickets for three hundred people.And they were like what, Yeah,
I want people to apply to cometo the workshop and it should be for
free for them. So we said, like like a sleeping hole in a
basketball court, people came from allover the world, they slept for free
(23:44):
in this court, and they cameto the workshops for free. So we
had like it was my piece wasthis huge workshop people producing stuff on the
fly, and it was it wasas amazing like yeah, so so for
me, I was like, it'smy biggest contribution to media art is a
workshop of people working. Yeah,where you gave them free room and board
two along the way. Yeah.No, that's really incredible, And I
(24:07):
think I love the idea. Ihave a million follow up questions, but
I'll try to keep it swords,But I love the idea that the workshop
was contagious, like the word wasspreading quickly for more people to come because
of that engaging and exciting to folks, and that's what I think. Any
you know, teacher or workshop facilitatordreams of you know, being able to
(24:27):
do that. And I think alsowhat you're saying about balancing the technical and
kind of the more conceptual side ofsome of these these skills or these lessons
that you're teaching, it sounds likesimilar to even what we're discussing yesterday with
some of the courses you teach nowwith the interaction students at Interaction Design students
(24:48):
at Malmo, where it's this balanceof giving them the foundational tools and skill
sets, but also you want likea challenging concept or something that draws them
in, whether it's the research they'refocused on or how they're going to apply
it to really you know, getthem to run with it. Right,
if you look at it, thisis the I think it's a secret source.
Like I've been analyzing how different mastercourses and so on, how they
(25:12):
run for so many years so successfully. For example, it TP has been
there since the seventies. They startedgiving the students like the first better cam
cameras and they will go out onthe streets filming and stuff like this.
Well, I don't know if youwere better come or VHS. I think
that's not relevant but the serience withcameras or like ourca that they are all
(25:34):
the time looking at the latest strengthin design to remain relevant to the sperience
apply, but they don't know exactlywhat they we work with next year and
sudday they get topics such as likebio materials or animal superpowers or you know,
similar thing with goldsmiths and stuff likethat. So I've been always asking
myself like, Okay, what isthat we can do let's say in more
(25:56):
constraint or more set and the nationalsystem so we can reach a similar level
of engagement. So so what itis that we can do right, because
that's that's that's that's my framework.I work at a public university in Sweden.
I'm a public officer, So sowhat is that it can do to
engage people in this education? Alsothat the education becomes relevant or remains relevant,
(26:18):
because it's been very relevant the lasttwenty years. Our students keep on
coming and keep on applying, andthey keep on thinking that they learn something
and they go out to get jobsor invent jobs, and they make you
crazy things more important things, notjust crazy. I have people make crazily
important just to let's making into anadverb make it more important. Yeah,
(26:41):
but it's like, so I thinkit's very important to keep on analyzing,
analyzing what is that the others aredoing and and try to make it better,
but not from a competition perspective,more from are from a prototyping perspective.
Yeah. Yeah, it was likeI think improving the work from the
others should be like a by defaultmodel, like do I why do I
go to I don't know, thinkiversand replicate a play from somebody? Okay,
(27:04):
I need this exact same thing todo this, But if I really
want to make about education system,I should teach people how to get that
and make it better. So reallychallenge it and think, continue to build
off. Yeah, because otherwise youdon't learn anything. You just learned to
copy and that's okay, that's interesting. That could get you a job,
but might not solve the future.Right, And our goal as academy should
(27:26):
be make better designers, make betterengineers, help make about the future.
That would be like the underlying superclear goal. I want you understand that
I can make T shirts give memy ten percent. Well, I think
that's a perfect segue actually to somethingI wanted to ask you around What do
(27:48):
you think is the responsibility of designersand engineers to humanity, to one another,
to people you know in the world. Well, as I said,
I think the basic responsibility is tomake the world over the place in whatever
form, And I mean that soundsvery generic, but I think if you
use that every time you ask yourselfwhether you should make something, I think
(28:12):
will really help you answer the question. Yeah, if you're using that as
like your compass or north star,I like, oh, if I make
this thing, will the will thisplace be better? Or will this create
a conflict among people, or willthis be more polluting? Or But you
also have to have like a thethought that because beyond the simple just no
(28:33):
question. So maybe the question isnot whether it is polluting today but will
be polluting in ten years time,or even if it's polluting today, but
will help with this pollution in fiveyears when this thing is fully implemented.
So so you have to really learnto make that math on the implication of
things in the short term and inthe long term, because you also need
to pitch them. And I thinkmany engineers, especially on some designers as
(29:00):
well, they are forgetting about theimportance of language and how much it matters
to be able to communicating what youdo and explain others and engage others in
good things. But also I thinkthe other problem is that sometimes the message
becomes very shallow and very superficial.So if you have to tell designers and
students how to collaborate or how tomake better things, I will tell them,
(29:26):
well, first of all, lookat the matter, like, give
me the thoughts, think about thepossible implications, think long term, and
then on top of that, thinkabout whether it's actually feasible with what you
have practicality Yeah, yeah, becausesometimes we want to do everything and then
(29:47):
we can't. Yeah yeah, Andthen it's like, who are you really
helping if it's not if you can'treally actualize it, or yeah, it
can't be functional and it's gonna beapply to a lot of things. It's
like when students come and say like, oh, yeah, I have this
idea. I want to make tenthousand of these, and when I put
it in the wall, it's like, okay, you want to three D
print ten thousand of these? Youwant to think about twenty four years.
(30:07):
I think our school has four printers, you know, do the mass No?
Absolutely, I think that's that's suchan important point to make you know
not only the practicality, but likeyou said, the long term implications,
so not only short term, longterm, and how it's really going to
fit into whatever existing ecosystem. Youknow that there is around whatever the topic
(30:32):
or application is. And I lovewhat you said about communication and also the
kind of checking if it's getting shallowessentially, because if you're trying to market
it or sell it or make peoplebelieve in it, it's hard to,
like you said, avoid becoming shallowor top level or whatnot. But again,
if you're really focused on the impactand the long term effects and things,
(30:52):
and I think that's a way tokind of there's the class classic rease
of a dead doc, right,what you have to look for embarrassing tactic
message that will help people understand veryquickly that it's going to be better.
But the problem is that when youdo that exercise, you also remove the
waters it down, You remove thecomplexity, or by removing the complexity,
sif thats are removing the side effectsand and then people don't make inform decisions
(31:19):
about some stuff because they just don'thave the full picture. And I think
that's something we have to be veryaware of. And then we have to
help people really, you know,we have to tell them this is great
bad Wait wait wait ware is it? You know, look at these four
points exactly. Yeah, this mighthappen, This might happen, this might
happen. So are we all goodthat if we do this, this might
happen? And I think when whenyou work with I think, then let's
(31:41):
not talk about the sign methodologies.Like if you work with user centered design
is one thing. But if youwork with participate or design or or like
I work with participatory activists research whereyou engage with people and you sometimes even
in like bringing your own concepts tothe table, right, then then then
it's then it is even more importantto tell everybody like, Okay, we're
(32:02):
making decision together. It's not justme. So so we need to agree
that we're making this because the momentwe press on, of course we can
stop it. But the further wego in the process, the bigger the
consequences for good and for bad.So I think it's very important to keep
that in mind. So I thinkactually engineers they also need to be aware
(32:23):
of this methodology because designers are moreand more aware of this. So I
think we need to also bring thismethodoligis into engineering and remind people about the
importance and also remind engineers to scratchbeyond the surface. No, I mean
I was. I'm a trained engineerand I have a PhD in design,
and I realized, or I realizedsome years ago when looking back, that
(32:45):
some of these ideas that we weregetting engineering about how society was involved in
the proces of buildings were extremely naivebecause we are going very deep but the
technical on the physics and the mathof things, and that requires such an
exercise of abstraction that you get verydisconnected from reality in a sense. And
(33:07):
I don't saying people shouldn't do itobstruction. I think they should totally do
it, because otherwise technology on sciencewill not advance. But at the same
time, when you come back,you need to make another exercise of you
know, as we say in Spanish, landing yourself, like like getting closer
to the ground and looking around andunderstanding like what it means to collaborate with
(33:31):
people. Yeah, and not beso superficial. You know what this is
discussion about humanities versus technology that theydon't understand each other. And my my
answer to that question is that thedepth of the discourse is very different in
both fronts. So some people heredon't respect the others because they're they're very
(33:52):
superficial, and some people here don'trespect the others because they don't understand the
abstraction. And at the end thereis discussing abou two different metaphors, right,
you know, it's experiy interesting.Absolutely, I think it's so cool
that you made that point because that'ssomething we talk about a lot with the
community, a design lab and evenjust Giovanni and I, you know,
in what the work that we dois this kind of like it comes back
(34:13):
to communication in a way. Buthow often between like for example, these
are some of the main groups wework with, Between designers, engineers,
and business people, they can betalking about the same thing, but they're
using whole different vocabulary, language,and their perspective or how they're framing it
because of what their focus is orhow they've been trained or how they've been
educated in that discipline. Makes itfeel like totally alienating sometimes to the other
(34:37):
parties. But sometimes it's really notas different as people might think, and
kind of like bridging those worlds.I think it's so important to be able
to go deeper into these conversations likeyou're saying, and actually be able to
try to understand one another better inorder to be able to collaborate. Eccien
spaces are really making a good jobat this. For example, he still
(35:00):
Weeklycern has been very good at atbringing the collaboration between artists and the scientific
community right or there was this experimentsin the sixty seventies. The imagineering experiments
dealing between art and technology were alsopretty good at at breaching this. But
the problem is that these things arehappenings as unique actions on time, and
(35:27):
even within the art field, peopleare working with detail technology are seeing as
aliens sometimes and in the other wayaround the way around. It's like if
the technologiest looks at the arts,very many times it's looking at art as
a consumer and as a producer,and and that makes that the art tools,
(35:47):
for example, are very limited,or very exclusive or very niche.
And I think I think we needto recognize the AfOR of people that are
trying to make that different. AsI mentioned earlier in the processing community,
as that's a really good example,but if you look at sound for example,
I think like a very healthy approachis they want from sonic bye,
whether you're making is a person makinga software that is used by by students
(36:13):
all over the world, and aboutthe importance of coding in sound production,
or of course Perio data right,it was a very political software that that
forces, like all of a sourcecode to be released in the open people
to understand how to handle sound atlow level with a graphical user interface,
which is a metaphor of programming thatallows people to really do things in a
different way. So so I thinkwe need to continue developing this metaphors further.
(36:37):
I think that's part of the ofthe job of the actually where I
teach, which is interaction design.That's about developing metaphors for interacting with machines.
Really, so I think that's avery important aspect. I could about
this first, I will try tostop here. I was like I could
listen to a ver. We're goingto take a quick break. When we're
(37:01):
back, we'll talk more about thelink between scientists and artists. Plus David
talks about his journey to co foundingArdweno and the Catch twenty two in open
source Welcome back to the bomb.I'm a genta strongheart. I'm here with
(37:22):
David Quartieres, not only the cofounder of Ardweno, but also a highly
ambitious educator. Let's get back tothis conversation. You know, we talked
a little bit about the differences andsome of the challenges in between, but
also so many of the people thatI know personally who are artists are very
(37:45):
they're also very technically inclined, orthey're doing processes that are very parallel to
processes used in engineering or scientific research. They're researching a concept, they're prototyping,
they're iterating, they're developing. Theyhave to defend their concept, they
have to communicate it, improve it, etc. Right, And I think
there's a lot of you know,engineers that I meet that are very interdisciplinary.
(38:07):
You know, they have a musicside, or often times I think
it comes out as like a hobbyquote unquote or something, right, but
they're really involved in it in theevenings or in their free time. And
it's interesting to think even I thinkin like with music, we used to
do this program at Design Lab calledModular Manifestation all around modular synth communities,
(38:28):
and they're super you know, involvedin making their tools, essentially making their
instruments and hacking their instruments and improvingthem and whatnot. So I think that
sometimes you know, it's not Yeah, sometimes these worlds are individuals. I
guess within these worlds are not sodifferent after all, you know, like
there is a lot of crossover,I think, and that, yeah,
(38:49):
makes me hopeful about where it's allgoing. Yeah, yeah, now,
But I think that the issue isalso that these are things that are really
hard to stand theorize because if youstand theorize them, they lose, they
lose the match exactly. That's that'sthat's that's a real issue, right.
Like a discussion, for example,of open source art is something that I've
been facing many many times, andbecause when we started with out doing of
(39:12):
for example, there were some likethe early artists like jumping on it.
They were interested just in the technologydoing things, but also in the open
source aspect behind it. So abunch of people started to like publish the
art as open source because they distinguishor they could separate between like the art
and the technique to make it happen. For example, there's artists called a
(39:34):
PAS that makes this kind of environmentalpieces he captured dated from the environments and
how whether it's sound or whether it'speople in a room or whatever it is,
and he makes a manifestation of it, whether it is something moving or
whether it is letting being edge anda piece of goood or some sort of
physical Yeah, exactly, it's alwaysa physical manifizication of data captured, whether
(39:55):
in real time or over over longyoutudinal period of time. And he publishes
all of the blueprints of everything completelyopen source. Of people do replicate it
if they want to. But becausehe's working in such a niche aspect and
he's like he's so unique, everybody'sgoing to know. I'm gonna know.
Okay, this guy many Yeah,of course does he ever integrate the work
(40:20):
of others building off of it intohis pieces. Later on, he does
integrate the software in his pieces,But I don't think many people are really
taking his job and replicating it becausebecause it's special what he does unique.
He was also very lucky, likehis first piece actually got through prices was
actually that they being Olympics and stufflike that. So he's being very lucky
(40:43):
when it comes to his production andhis exposure. But at the same time,
I think I think that other peopleare really aware of the fact that
maybe sharing the blueprints when you're notthat well known might be a problem because
might be some people might try touse it and so on. So that's
(41:04):
I think debates. That's a bigthing that comes up with a lot of
our discussions around open source. Ofcourse, especially we were talking about this
yesterday, with designers being taught alot of times, you know, in
school traditionally to protect their work andyou know, be wary of coffees and
things like that or people knocking thingsoff. But it's also like, especially
(41:25):
with the world of social media andall these things these days, you can't
keep everything a secret forever, youknow, and oftentimes that can hinder the
project sometimes down the line. Yeah. No, I think there's a basic
discussion ongoing. Well, another ofmy facets speaking about we'll have to have
follow up to all of these.Yeah, I know what. For example,
(41:45):
I was in the workshop a coupleof weeks ago with open Futures Foundation
that is looking at what are thepossibilities of open source in the future,
and there were people from like theMozilla Foundation, there are people from Wikimedia
Foundation, and people a professor fromArt School in Rotterdam and the president of
(42:08):
the Gotail Foundation, which is afoundation that works with like crowdsourcing, community
projects and so on in Spain andLatin America and a lot of other actors,
and basically discussion here was well,the commons as in creative commons,
as in open source software US,in open source hardware or free hardware and
(42:29):
free software and so on. Thesethings are of course very easy to follow
by first world you know, whywhatever whatever, while if you are in
a small community somewhere where this willmakes a difference between life and death,
(42:51):
protecting it is more important. Soso there's a whole discussion about why should
for example, this indigenous community inthe Amazona's share on Wikipedia, Yeah,
anything about themselves, because the wholepoint for them is being secret right,
you know, But that being secretlythe same might mean that they might disappear,
but they also disappear if they arebeing seen, so touch twenty two
(43:13):
exactly. So when those situations happened, then it's about the individuals or the
collectives deciding by themselves, right,So we also have to be very mindful
and careful of this, like whyand when should we open source, and
I'm strong diffunder of open sources.But of course, again I'm in a
really luxury situation. My job ispaid in advance, so you can afford
(43:35):
to be exactly. At the sametime, it's a playground where people could
come. I could say like,hey, I'm making this, but I'm
also available for higher you know.So it's so it's an interesting it's an
interesting place. We have created aplace that allows for other forms to emerge
than the traditional way of building corporationsand interactions exactly. Yeah, I was
(43:59):
going to say, fun fact whenwe were talking about the data visualization artist.
The first time I used Ardwino wasactually in an art in technology course
in my school in college, inmy industrial design program, and it was
for a data visualization course. Wewere working with another school, Northwestern University,
with their engineering students and then ourart in design and technology students and
(44:22):
putting together these exhibitions on public datathat was like city metrics, data around
commuting and bicycle usage and power andall these things. But yeah, I
just remembered. I was like,that's the first time I used Ardwino.
I was gonna rewind a little bitand ask you said you were invited to
be a professor in Sweden when youwere twenty four, and how how long
(44:45):
after that did you then found ard? We know, all right, yeah,
so I can't here. First timekake here was in nineteen ninety nine,
and the reason why king was toactually implement on our project from a
couple of artists Christian Lemers and MichaelQuilm German Danish duo. And they made
(45:07):
eight hours long movie of James Joyce'sfeelings a week and they wanted to put
this on the web. And everybodyknew this impossible to pull in the web.
Like in nineteen ninety nine, theweb wasn't ready for an eight hours
long movie. And but but theirmovie had different Manifestationship was being predicted on
a triptick on a museum. Theyhad a catalog and then they wanted to
(45:31):
have this something on the web.And there's something on the way is what
I did. So together with withChristopher dancing in front of mine and Elizabeth
Nielsen was producing or they were coproducing the thing, they hired me to
be the engineer behind this. Sowe created we created we call it a
(45:52):
matrix, but a matrix from likethe perspective of a place where a living
being is developed and then it's beinggiven birth. So but with building the
analogies with the book, with thebook, I don't know if you've read
Feeling as Wake. Nobody has reallyread the sing I haven't. I'm sorry
to say, yeah, but oneof the curious Yeah, now what listen.
(46:15):
One of the things we did isthat the server where this thing was
hosted was like sending you a weeklyemail with a couple of pages in the
book. Yeah, because still shouldI subscribe? That the book was like
so hard to read, and itis so hard to read, and it's
a masterpiece, and it contains alot of stories that are interlaced. And
the thing is that one of theanalysis that has been made of this book
(46:36):
is con the stories that are interlaced, and so all these things can be
but come forced but and force betweenthe stories and so on. So these
guys they made a lot of busequences that were about three minutes long and
they interlaced them to become eight hours. Wow. So so that you were
seeing is like a scene about incest, and then it was jumping into another
one about about the insects, andthen was jumping into another one about I
(47:00):
don't know necrophilia, and this novelis very complex. Thatches. That's just
very complex topics from using very strongmetaphors. So whatever you are reading is
not what your author is meaning atleast that's that's one of the analysis.
(47:20):
Yeah, exactly. So these guysmade these movies and and so we had
this idea of what if we whenpeople are exposed to this, what they
they see is the matrix, whichis an egg, and it's in the
center of the website. And thenyou have these thirteen different categories that are
made like there's insects and there isI don't know, different things that you
can drag and drop like food andrepresent the categories and you can drag them
(47:45):
and you drag three items and theythink knows or you drag these three items,
and so randomizes and gives you anexperience based from those three topics.
Wow. So we made an endlessamount of flash interactive movies. Wow that
that could be created out of thisrandomization. Yeah. Wow. It was
(48:07):
a tremendous amount of work. Soso first it came to think about how
this could be implemented and making thewhole thing I'm making it work. And
then I said, okay, I'mgoing to build a whole front and in
JavaScript. In JavaScript was kind ofon its way out, but it was
the only way of really making ithappen. And then and then the movies
were making javas people because then thefilmmakers that were working in the preak would
(48:27):
work in cutting and making interactions andso on. So we made a lot
of like interesting interactive movies. Ithink it was about a hundred sequences or
something, so like choose your ownadventure for the Yeah, that was the
So with these categories, it willcreate a sequence of about ten movies.
And then inside these movies there wereobviously links that would jump to the following
(48:50):
ones or to some other ones.I'm build a tree. So the ideas
that every time you will come tothis website you will get a different experience.
It's so cool and like we couldtalk about this yeah yeah, but
basically this, this piece is theone that brought me to Sweden. Like
when when I made this piece,I was then invited to become a teacher
here. So that was the Therewas a thing and this was due in
(49:10):
nineteen ninety ninety. This thing inthe summer, and then I moved to
Sweden. Your two thousand and thenhow much later? So then and are
we know it's two thousand and five, so about five years later. Yeah,
so you had had about five yearsof teaching experience that what happened exactly
what happened was that first of all, I had a lot of thoughts about
how I had been taught technology,like I was I remembered perfectly, like
(49:34):
like there is there is this imagethat is used everything you learn, for
example, computer vision or image treatment, which is this lady with a hat
that was taken from a Playboy magazineor something. It's very it's a very
famous It's used all over the engineeringliterature. It's like it's a very classic
classic picture. So it's like thehead of a lady with a hat.
(49:57):
And it's a highly compressed picture,so when you look at it, you
can see all of the imperfections andthe pixelations and stuff. And we that
you learn about frequency the images,how you can make a fast free transfer.
We dimensional to expert information from it, and so one and so I
came to the professor and I said, like, look, I understand that
this is like very interesting, butat the same time, like it's been
(50:19):
using books and stuff, but atthe same time, you want to analyze
the frequency as a concept. Wouldn'tbe better if you just had a black
and white image with like white bars. And then the more the narrower the
lines, the more lines, thehigher frequency, the wather the lines they
frequency, and then we can seehow the spectrum changes with this. I
mean, he worked like this closeof column is stupid, and but I
(50:42):
was right, and the point islike to me, it was like,
Okay, clearly something doesn't work ineducation, Like like if you want to
explain the concept, you can justsay, burbo thing what comes from the
book, or you can just tryto figure out the way that it makes
it easier to understand the things.And so I had this in my backpack
when I came to teach here,and and so I inherited because Man University
(51:06):
was created in nineteen ninety eight.But I can't put teaching two thousand.
So I got these books for teaching. Yeah, when I said, there's
no way I can't teach these peoplehow the program with this, So so
I would I would try to reachthese concepts, but by telling the stories
differently. I have this collection ofcollections of overheads, and how I was
teaching my class is making my owndrawings and story differently. One day I
(51:30):
should suppoti but but yes, Butafter two and a half years teaching this,
I came to the school administ administration. I said, like, okay,
guys, like my second job wassigning microchips, and I know that
in the embedded world, this technologyhas becoming very very small, and by
small, I mean it would bepossible to put microchips inside every physical object.
(51:53):
So I think that our designed students, especially our interaction STIG students,
they should learn about electronics because thisis the future, really how it's going
to go. And and truth isthat they had a teacher before me that
I was teaching something like that,but they were making one single praying in
the whole class, and he wasmaking the prayer for them like they would
(52:14):
conceptualize it and he would be makingit. But I was more like,
no, the students they really needto learn. What if we transform this
physical building class into a class wherethe students end up building something physical that
was with technology. So I designedmy own circuit boards or the students top
to reprogram by themselves, and soon. We were some basic stamps in
the beginning, and I was kindof satisfied. But the problem was that
(52:37):
I was getting more and more studentsbecause the classes were because the school was
very new and begun, the classeswere small, but they were slowly in
the modern students. So the buddywas escalating very quickly. And also the
basic stamps, they were really easyto break. And I knew that electronics
are very cheap, like the componentsitself themselves are very cheap, so I
couldn't understand why the price of thebasic stamps was so high. So like,
(53:00):
I have to make my own board. So I started building my own
board, and exactly at times five, some of my work with my students
was exhibited a different places. Andso the School of Design of Ibreya,
the Interaction Design School is the firstbig international master's interacting design kind of like
invited me over for a three fourmans presidency to help them with the class.
(53:23):
And so I came there and Imade my compass, my compass that's
like friends in like children languages,like my my my colleague Massimo. I
learned a new word yeah, andand then and then for sustic history you
(53:43):
know, yeah, exactly. MassI helped him with his classes, but
at some point he asked me like, like, an we have like a
very like official interaction, like atsome point like like we are kind of
became friends and we understood like,yeah, we want the best for students,
so we should try to figure outhow to collaborate. Because his residence
he would come to an end.Yeah beyond that, yeah exactly. So
(54:07):
so I talking like, yeah,I'm making my own board. Think he
told me like, I'm also makingmy own board. My world looks like
this. I look at his boardand said like, well, I think
your board like seal sister. Yes, hand me over your your precivil design.
I will fix it. He sentme the fist and I just send
the first part of the wing theworld brace on his or you know,
sketches and yeah another history. Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. That's
(54:29):
the first time I've heard that storyofficially, and great to hear it from
you. And so I'm like justconscientious at the time. I want to
don't want to take some much ofyour time. But like I said,
we could dive deeper and deeper intoall of these things, but we'll have
to save it. Hopefully maybe wecan do a part two when you're in
the States. I was gonna say, and I'm serious about the exhibit of
(54:51):
your your overheads. I'm wondering maybeif we could have an exhibit a design
lab, maybe in the future wecan have to seecket I think. I
think I still have them, butI mean there's been a lot of changes
in the university. We have tochange offices like four times, and I
think I really managed to keep oneof my overhead notebooks like with like hand
drawn and so on. It wouldbe so interesting. But anyways, I'm
(55:15):
getting ahead of myself here, sowe'll just wrap it up with a few
kind of rapid fire questions that weask a lot of our guests here on
the show. So one is,what's something outside of technology that's inspiring you
these days. I mean, obviouslythe education is the easy answer, right.
(55:35):
First of all, for me,society, technology, and economydia are
all together. That's what makes societywhat it is, is the bond of
these things. But obviously education isvery important. I think things as a
democratization aspect that is very relevant.I recommend everybody to read, like Paulo
fred some of the like current thetheoreticians around education, they think Freddy is
(56:02):
getting old fashioned. But as we'readvancing in a society with that's again having
classes. We had got rid ofsocial classes, but we go back to
hub social classes right now. Ithink riding Fredie could be very inspiring.
Then again, if I have tomove from like what I work with,
I would say bicycles. Bicycles,it's mine, like, yeah, the
(56:25):
things that I was cycling a lotas a teenager and in my twenties when
I moved to Sweden. Funny enough, the city is so small that I
said I can walk everywhere. SoI didn't cycle for quite a while.
Oh interesting. And then a coupleof years ago I got my partner and
my kid new bikes, and Irealized I had this really trashy back to
go shopping basically as to carry allof the weight of the Yeah, and
(56:49):
I thought like, I should getmyself as myself a bike. I'm over
forty now I deserve it. AndI really learned bike mechanics, so now
I can I can officially say thatscenes actually a month ago I can't.
I have fixed every single part ofa modern gravel bike. Nice, that's
all the way to the bottom brackets, ball bearings. So I fixed everything.
(57:14):
So yeah, I fell in lovewith Baxican, and I think it's
very interesting because there's a big historybehind them. Obviously, it's a very
sustainable way of transportation. Anybody canfix them, and you can have more
than one and don't feel bad aboutit. So I have five, and
you're gonna get seventeen. Right.We talked about this yesterday that now I
(57:35):
want to go for this auction.I ave soon to be twenty two,
you know not you know when peoplewhen people get older. I don't drink
alcohol straightedge, but when people getolder, they started doing better wine.
So as I go, as Ig older, I have better bikes.
I would prioritize quality versus quantity.Nice. Nice, there you go that
(57:57):
I love it. And last,but not least, what is on your
personal bill of materials? I mean, besides, I was besides all of
the tools for the bike, thebike and the tools. Yeah, and
now, actually I was gonna talkmore about bikes. I will. I
would get the bikes things there now, but something I carry with me at
all times like I managed to sincesince I started running Linux about twenty years
(58:23):
ago. I've seen how I canrun my computers for a longer time than
anybody else. Like my current laptopis about seven years old, and I'm
really proud. The battery is kindof dead, but still, you know,
I can't continue working with it thesame operating systems way with memory,
(58:43):
you know, since the drive andeverything. So but is the accessories have
around it, Like like I havetwo sets of headphones because sometimes, I
mean, I need to be incalls all the time. So I have
some of these headphones that were withwith bone conduction, so I can wear
them and I can keep on talkingand they don't look too tucky. I
(59:07):
got some of those for swimming,yeah, for being able to listen underwater.
And it was so funny because Iremembered when I was like a kid
on the Swift team, I alwayswish I could play music. And it's
one of those things you ever havetechnology, We're like, whoa, I'm
living the dream, you know,like I never imagined this would be possible.
And I have headphones underwater. That'sexactly a thing. Like that's it.
(59:28):
When I when I was riding bikeswhen I was a teenager, we
were doing like like downhill crazy nobrakes, like the rule was in the
air. No, that was sobad, but it was wasn't very uncommon
to arrive home with like either halfyour body kor ramath or like blood somewhere.
But but what I really missed waslike listening to music. We will
(59:52):
watch his music videos where wise we'reskating or doing like QUI sports. I
had music was like us to begreat, to be psyched like downhill with
this music. Yeah, well Ican tell you is true because it is
awesome. Yeah. The other thing, the other thing in my in my
bit of material is actually as aplaylist, I have a playlist that every
(01:00:12):
song goes over one hundred and twentybbms. Wow. So when I'm cycling,
if I if I want to pushit, I put that one on
and I go on forever. Doyou ever do like collected biometric data on
yourself as it's happening, to seeif it makes it capabilities? The things
that well I wear, I werea polt meter, Yeah, yeah,
(01:00:36):
it's smart. What's why I callit more a polt meter because I want
to just basically measure my pulse andI have to say I have improved my
condition. So the moment I realizedI proved my condition, I stopped looking
at it. But I still measureit because I think I think it would
become relevant at some point. Yeah, but I don't. I don't necessarily
(01:00:57):
look at whether music really affects me. But but just know in your heart
that yeah, but you know what, just to closest interview in a circle
and interactionally signed one of the firstplases you didn't propose many years it was
exactly that was exactly the possibility ofhaving a music player. Back then,
MP three players were like at theearly stages, we're looking at the classic
(01:01:21):
iPods with the ring and stuff likethat, right, so that when you
when you were exercising, the musiccould adjust to your to your heartbeat,
so you could either use it toenhance it and push you further or to
calm you down in case you werelike overdoing it. And back then we
could only protoype this conceptually. Butthe interesting thing is that because of our
(01:01:44):
doing once on today we can dothis for real. Like if we did
that protype today, we could totallymake a machine that, based on your
heartbeat, could actually adjust the vpmsof the music. Absolutely. I actually
have a friend from school from thatArt in Tech class I was talking about
Lolf. She's Turkish and she's nowdoing she's actually managing art and technology like
(01:02:07):
venue space in Amsterdam. She wasdoing her masters there. But she does
performance pieces. She was on oneof our Modular Manifestation interview episodes, but
she does performance pieces using ard Weknow where she takes her heart rate and
she does like a speaking performance andshe's able to like modulate her heart rate
(01:02:28):
like she's practiced how to speed itup or slow it down with breathing techniques
and different things. And then itaffects basically music that's being mixed. I
don't know exactly all the technology behindit, but essentially it also makes you
know, a live music show essentiallyas she's doing her performance. And yeah,
I'll have to show you. Ihave a picture of her little kit
that she does with her with thearduino and everything. But I love that
(01:02:52):
you brought it back full circle.Thank you. You're a pro. You've
definitely done these interviews before. Andyeah, I really appreciate the time today
David, and thank you for yourgenerous hosting of Giovanni and I here.
We're really excited to continue working togetherin the future. Yep, thank you
so much. That was my discussionwith David Karthias, engineer, educator,
(01:03:19):
artist and co founder of Arduino.We talked about the complexities of open source
and the arts, the value ofopen source electronics as a learning platform,
and the founding of Arduino. Ifyou like The Bomb, don't forget to
subscribe, rate, and share theshow wherever you get your podcasts. You
(01:03:40):
can follow supply Frame and Hackaday onInstagram, Twitter, LinkedIn YouTube, and
design Lab at supply Frame Design Labon Instagram and Twitter. The Bomb is
a supply Frame podcast produced by Me, Magenta Strongheart and Ryan Tillotson, written
by Maggie Bowls and edited by DanielFerrara. Theme music is by Anna Hagban.
Show art by Thomas Schneider. Specialthings to Giovanni Selina's, Bruce Domingue's,
(01:04:01):
Thomas Woodward, Jin Kumar, JordanClark, the entire supply From team,
and you are wonderful listeners. I'myour host, Magenta Strongheart. See
you next week.