June 11, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of The Book Deal, hosts Tina Strachan and Madeleine Cleary pull back the curtain on their lives as writers, blending personal stories with creative insights. From kombucha-fueled weekends and quirky hobbies like cross stitching and paint-by-numbers to unexpected adventures and laugh-out-loud moments, they share the real-life rhythms behind the writing.
Listeners get an inside look at their current projects, upcoming book events, and a surprise writing residency on Magnetic Island. Along the way, Tina and Madeleine offer practical tips, relatable anecdotes, and a candid glimpse into the highs and lows of the writing process. Whether you're just starting out or deep into your writing journey, this warm, witty conversation will leave you inspired and entertained.
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:43 Saturday Night Vibes
01:13 Crafting and Creativity
02:48 The Importance of Relaxation
08:20 Madeleine's Recent Adventures
21:13 Upcoming Events and Exciting News
25:17 Dreaming of a Tropical Island Retreat
26:23 Vision Boards and Manifesting Success
26:55 Podcast Plans and Exciting Guests
30:51 Balancing Writing and Personal Life
31:48 Part-Time Work and Creative Goals
33:59 Writing Tips and Recommendations
37:29 Struggles and Solutions in Writing
42:30 A Fun and Tangential Chat
44:06 Wrapping Up and Listener Engagement
Follow The Book Deal podcast on Instagram The Book Deal podcast (@the_book_deal_podcast) • Instagram photos and videos
You can find out more about Tina and Madeleine and follow their journeys here:
Tina Strachan (@td_strachan) • Instagram photos and videos
Tina Strachan children's book author
Madeleine Cleary (@madeleineclearywrites) • Instagram photos and videos
Madeleine Cleary | Author
If you want to stay in the know, sign up to Madeleine and Tina's quarterly newsletters for the latest news first.
Madeleine: Subscribe here
Tina: Subscribe here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Madeleine (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover
the inspiring stories, theauthors behind your favorite
books.
Tina (00:15):
No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got
you covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
Madeleine (00:20):
And I'm Madeleine Cleary, and join us as we pull
back the curtain of publishedauthors
Tina (00:25):
one deal at a time.
Madeleine (00:29):
The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional
owners, the land and waters,which it's recorded on and pays
respect to their elders past,present, and emerging.
Tina (00:46):
Good evening, Madeleine.
Madeleine (00:48):
Hi Tina.
How are you going over there?
Ah, I'm having a great night.
It's Saturday night.
We're, we're partying on thepodcast tonight.
Are we partying or are you Well,we're not gonna record on a
Saturday night though.
Do we met?
Well, no.
Tina (01:04):
No.
You know, and you know,sometimes on a Saturday night
some people have plans.
That's true.
That's true.
Some people are doing funthings.
Like yourself.
Some people are, are sitting athome in their pajamas and
drinking kombucha like me.
Madeleine (01:18):
But you are, I mean, I love that you've prepared
like, so just for context, it'sseven o'clock on Saturday night
as well, and Tina has preppedfor bed.
She's in her pajamas.
She's just taken a big swig ofher kombucha.
Are you about, it's the guthealth.
Are you prepping for bedstraight after this podcast?
Tina (01:37):
No.
God, it is been set up.
I almost don't wanna admit whatmy plans were for afterwards.
Oh my gosh.
Um, please tell me, uh, while Idrink my wine.
Well, last night, I, last nightI finished my paint by numbers.
Oh, you're getting into thatfad.
That's a thing at the moment,isn't it?
(01:58):
I, well, I've been doing it fora little while.
I actually bought some for meand my son to do together, which
was really cute, and he did.
Oh, oh, so you, you started thetrend.
I was to all me.
Okay.
You're ahead.
It's totally me.
Everyone heard that I was doingit and got on board.
Is it good?
You know what I.
I'm total hyper focus though,so, um.
I get really stuck into it.
(02:20):
Mm.
But you know, when I found itreally helpful, and I'm sure
it's not just paint by numbers.
I'm sure, I'm sure there's lotsof other things, like after
this,'cause I've just finished,I was gonna get onto one of my
cross stitches.
Madeleine (02:29):
Oh my God.
Tina.
Saturday night at Tina's
Tina (02:32):
place.
It's
Madeleine (02:32):
getting
Tina (02:33):
wild.
Like, but they are, they, itgets a really cool and funky
ones.
I'm gonna post it on myInstagram so everyone can see.
They're cool.
They're not daggy anymore.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe a little bit.
Um.
But you know what?
It's good.
And may I think you need to dothis, Madeleine, uh, what you
need to do is, I think it's veryimportant and especially in this
(02:56):
period of time, Madeleine, soall debut authors that are
listening who are going intothis, you may be, you may be
doing art and craft and thingsanyway, but it is so good as a
switch off.
Madeleine (03:10):
Of your
Tina (03:11):
brain.
And I actually find it superrelaxing and you know, I, I
actually put my headphones inand listen to and watch
something at the same time.
So I'm watching a show, like Ireally like Well, you're doing
Madeleine (03:20):
so many things at the same time.
So you're doing paint by numbersor cross stitching plus watching
tv.
Yeah,
Tina (03:26):
at the same,
Madeleine (03:27):
at the same time.
But I'm watching
Tina (03:28):
something that's you.
Um, but it's not thinking aboutsocials, it's not thinking about
the next words that I'm gonnawrite.
It's not thinking about That'strue.
You know, doing all that stuff.
It really, it's still a switchoff, like, you know, just
watching brain numbingtelevision and you don't have to
do that, or some music or apodcast or an audio book.
No, you are right.
Madeleine (03:45):
You're right.
I think that's whilst thepainting, it puts your focus,
your focus on something that'snot in your brain buzzing around
in your brain.
Okay.
So I'm gonna show you something.
That's literally in my officeright now.
Um, I agree.
I have never done paint bynumbers, but what I have done,
and this I think is on themewith Saturday night, okay.
Is the.
(04:06):
Uh, Pinot and Picasso.
Have you heard?
Oh,
Speaker 4 (04:08):
yes, yes.
So
Madeleine (04:10):
with my girlfriends, actually my friend who is over
at the moment, um, we went anddid this together, um, in this
like really trendy place.
We're the literally the oldestpeople at this play?
No.
Oh really?
Oh, really?
We're getting into it.
Oh my gosh, yes.
And we, um, had a dinner bookingearlier and we probably left it.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Mm,
Madeleine (04:30):
we were pushing time and so we rocked up late to this
pinot and Picasso and all thesereally trendy young people in
inner city.
Melbourne had already like, setup, like they were full on into
it, and then we'd had a fewwines and so we walked in like
stumbling in like laughing, likecausing, not taking it very
seriously, clearly not taking itseriously.
(04:50):
But, oh my gosh, I, I was inthat period.
I think it, it was just beforeButterfly Women came out.
So I was, you know, your braingets full of like buzzing kind
of things and it's hard toswitch off and focus, but I
think there's something to dowith painting.
So let me, I can show you thepainting that I did, please.
It's right in my office.
Wonder.
Okay.
Tina (05:10):
And I'll, we can pop this up.
Oh, it's, oh my God.
So did you, okay everyone, I'mgonna explain, I'm looking at
the cutest butterfly thatMadeleine has painted this way,
and it's like blue and purpleand pink, and it says like a
butterfly.
Her wings unfolded.
Madeleine (05:25):
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Did everyone draw the butterflyor did you.
No, you could say the shoes.
Well, they had, um, uh, likesome standard ones that they
wanted everyone to draw.
Yeah.
And, but my friends and I, wewere like, no, we wanna do what
we wanna do.
And my friends had prepped,they're like a type women.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah.
Madeleine (05:43):
So they had actually gone onto Pinterest and found
what they wanted to paint.
Oh.
And I had not done my research.
I didn't know this was a thing,so I had no idea what to do.
So they, my friends.
Went and found like a butterflything, the word.
So they, they organized me.
Isn't it nice when you've gotfriends that just organize you
and that's It is definitelyhandy at times.
(06:03):
Yes.
Yeah.
So that friend is actually hereright now and we didn't expect
that she would stay.
So we've had a few wines.
So I thought, well, why not jumponto the podcast now?
Yeah.
I love it.
Have a good time.
Yeah.
Next time I'll have to join you.
It sound
Speaker 3 (06:18):
very boring
Madeleine (06:18):
with Natasha as well.
Yes, please.
Oh, that'd be so cool.
So painting.
Okay.
I'm gonna have to get into thispaint painting, or I think
anything crafty.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Mm.
Tina (06:28):
Somethings I'm
Madeleine (06:29):
not very
Tina (06:29):
crafty though, nor am I creative in a different way, way
that I'm not, but nor am I, andthat's why, see, I wish I could
just paint the thing, like mymom is an actual artist and she
keeps, like, she'll walk past meand go, oh, you know, you just
maybe try this.
Brush or maybe try this color,or maybe you should, and I'm
like, mom, no, just, I'm justpainting in the lines.
Hang on, Tina.
Our moms are both artists.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Ah.
Tina (06:51):
Wow.
And you, are you arty?
No.
Oh, I'm, I'm a terrible artist,but we're, we're just still
creative, but with words,
Madeleine (07:00):
but with words.
I've never been creative withother things.
Mm-hmm.
Have you?
Yeah.
I'm terrible.
Tina (07:05):
No.
My
Madeleine (07:05):
mom, she's a beautiful artist.
She, I've got lots of her likepaintings around our house.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah.
And
Madeleine (07:11):
I've just never had that skill.
And it's funny, isn't it, thatyou gravitate towards something.
She's always been very craftyand I think actually she would
be a good writer as well.
So mom listens to all thatpodcast, so I'm so sure she's
listening to that.
My mom.
Hey Julie.
Tina (07:27):
Um, yeah.
Well that's interesting.
Well, it's certainly like thecreative gene, right?
Mm-hmm.
And we just use words instead ofThat's right.
Ah.
But I would love to be able todo it.
Um.
But I can't So pay by numbers.
It is pay by numbers.
It looks really good at the end.
You just gotta get a good one.
Madeleine (07:42):
And the other thing I found as well is like, I think
listening to music, like takingsome time out, going to a
performance or recital,'causethen you're forced to just spend
two hours just listening.
And I think that's a nice way todecompress as well.
And yeah, decompression issomething that I need to be
thinking about.
I think now five and a halfweeks, almost six weeks actually
(08:04):
since the pop.
Butterfly Women's beingpublished.
So it's now time to rejuvenateand refresh.
Tina (08:09):
I think you should just give it a go.
Go on.
I'll, I'll send you a link tosome cool paper by numbers that
I just saw.
But we didn't, we, we didn'tcome on to talk paper by
numbers.
We had a few things we wanted tochat about, but, um, first let's
do a little bit of an update,Madeleine,'cause it has been an
exciting time.
Um, what's been happening foryou in the last.
(08:29):
Or so, or a couple of weekssince we chatted last?
Madeleine (08:32):
Oh, it, uh, it's been an interesting time actually
because it's been the first, orlast week was the first week I
had where I didn't have an eventor a podcast since the Butterfly
women launched.
So that, um, it, it, it feltstrange actually to just.
Uh, go back to like normal life.
And so I think trying to workout how to adjust back to
(08:54):
normality is something I had tosort of think about and learn.
Um, and I probably spent a daygoing, oh my gosh, this is it.
Like it's done now I need tostart thinking about the next
thing.
And that sort of took me into abit of a head spin, but I think
I've come out of it like prettyexcited about what's next as
well.
And, and I've still got likelots of interesting and fun
(09:17):
things to look forward to.
Like I'm, um, going to theWilliamstown, to the Willie Lit
Festival.
In Williamstown in a couple ofweeks.
Um, and I'm doing this reallycool event with Anne Freeman.
Do you know, do you know Anne?
Yeah.
Um, at El and Bookshop.
So we're talking.
So her book, um, me that you seeis all about the digital age of,
um.
(09:37):
Sort of, you know, like onlyfans.
And, um, it's this really coolbook.
It's amazing.
That's, and so we're talkingabout Flash brothel.
Flash brothels in 19th centuryand the digital age.
So at, can you
Tina (09:48):
tell us what a flash brothel is?
Madeleine (09:50):
Oh, yeah.
So that's
Tina (09:51):
like a, I have an image in my mind, but, well, what do you
think?
What's your image?
To me, a flash brothel soundslike almost like a popup.
Madeleine (10:01):
I mean, it's, it's actually in the 19th century.
It was de de describe a veryhigh class brothel.
Oh, like a flashy brothel?
Flashy brothel flash.
I was like, it's like a flash,like a popup store.
So like a, yeah, it's a veryhigh class brothel, like Madam
Brussels s in Melbourne.
(10:21):
So that was the, the, the waythey described them.
So lots of things still look tolook forward to, but um, I did
some really beautiful events inthe last couple of weeks in
regional Victoria.
Um, so one in Mansfield at InkBookshop, and I don't know, we
didn't know what we wereexpecting, I think.
And it's, it's about a two hourdrive to Mansfield and we were
(10:42):
driving the dark in the rainand.
My husband, he's like, what ifonly five people like show up
because you know, it could bereally awkward.
And we got there and like therewas like 40 people and it was
like a sellout.
It was this beautiful warmevent.
Charlotte who owns the bookshopis amazing.
So we had a great time.
And then, um, we went the nextnight to Menen, which is in
(11:05):
Gippsland again, another liketwo hour drive.
I was in conversation with MarkZa Russell, who's a friend of
the podcast.
And again, I.
So warm, incredible communitydown there.
Um, and I had this incredible,amazing experience where the
last person who was in thesigning line, um, and it was,
(11:26):
this was pretty much my, like,one of my last events.
Um, so it felt like a, a bit ofa final moment.
Like I was going back to workthe next day.
Um, and it was like the lastmoment.
And she just said to me, she'slike, oh, your book changed my
whole perspective on my life.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Oh.
Wow.
Madeleine (11:43):
And um, mark was sitting next to me and Mark was
just like, I could feel, hearhis grin and feel his grin next
to me.
And she just said like, um, youknow, that she comes from this
like background where she's froma poorer background.
She became a partner in a lawfirm.
Um, she.
And when she was reading thebook, she realized, she was
(12:05):
like, this would've been my life150, 160 years ago.
And it made her feel reallygrateful for all the
opportunities that she's had inher life.
And that's something that whenyou write Tina, you don't expect
to have that response.
You just write a story that youthink people, hopefully you hope
that people like.
(12:25):
But when you get a moment likethat, it makes everything
worthwhile, the driving in thedark, in the rain, all that kind
of stuff.
So absolutely.
That's incredible.
Tina (12:33):
And I feel like I've, I've really been, these last few
weeks I've really beenappreciating those opportunities
and those moments.
And even in a way like, youknow, the, we write because we
love it.
Yeah.
Um, you know, when it comes tobeing a published author, then
they.
That's when all the things likesales and people buying books
(12:54):
and isn't making money and allthat sort of thing.
And, you know, you don't getpaid a lot for your books in
this industry.
Mm-hmm.
But I was even just thinking theother day, if all, if all I get
out of it is these incredible,um, opportunities and adventures
that I didn't normally orwouldn't have had, um, I think
(13:14):
that's.
That's worth it to me.
Yes.
And
Madeleine (13:18):
even, not even like the opportunities to do these
things, but the moments, thosejust small moments in your life,
which only last 30 seconds, butyou know, that will stay with
you
Tina (13:31):
forever because you can't put a price on that feeling, can
you?
And that moment that you had,yeah.
Have you had that?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Um,
Tina (13:39):
but I can't say that anyone's come to me and said
that Walter Zoo has changedtheir life.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
It's different, you know, children, it's, it's kids.
Um, but, you know,
Madeleine (13:49):
and, and they're, they're really cute and very
generous with their Have you hada moment though that's felt very
much like, I'm, I just wannaenjoy this right now.
There's a, there's that feelingthat I think will carry me
through this.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (14:03):
Yeah.
I think there's.
There's probably been a few.
And I think, um, you know, so I,I have book two Neeka in the
storm coming out like nextmonth.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh my gosh.
I'm so
Madeleine (14:14):
excited.
And it's so, and I'm, um, youhaven't asked me for a blurb
quote, by the way.
I'm very pissed off about that.
I dunno,
Tina (14:21):
I'm not sure if your genre kind of gels well with mine.
I mean, well it just, like, Iwould definitely give one.
Um, yeah, but I, um, yeah, soit's, so I'm actually planning
for promo of book, um, of booktwo of Neeka in the Storm and,
(14:43):
um, organizing all my eventsevents.
And we're actually going toMelbourne, to Melbourne Zoo, um,
to have a book launched downthere, which I know you're gonna
be at.
What date is it?
It's the 31st of August.
Madeleine (14:57):
Okay, let me just pop
Tina (14:58):
that in my calendar, if you've even told me the
Madeleine (15:00):
date.
Tina (15:01):
No, I'll, I've only just, I've only just, um, locked it
Madeleine (15:03):
in and
Speaker 4 (15:04):
so I'll do Okay.
You know what?
Madeleine (15:05):
You're very lucky.
I literally come back fromQueensland the day before, so.
I'm so, so glad.
Good.
Tina (15:14):
I'll be actually be in conversation with our friend
Katherine Collette, so she'sgonna be there.
Another friend of
Speaker 3 (15:20):
the podcast, another friend
Tina (15:21):
of the podcast.
Oh my gosh, amazing.
It's just super fun.
It's just gonna be super fun.
There's gonna be lots of animalthemed games and activities and,
um.
Is there a link out now?
Not yet, no.
I'll be doing it next week.
Okay.
So both my, everyone hears this.
It should probably be up and youcan just find it on my website
or on Insta.
Um, but even that, you know,going down to Melbourne and
(15:41):
going with the family andspending some time down there,
you know, we're gonna stay in ahotel, we're gonna stay in the
city, we're gonna do all thesesorts of fun things.
I'm like, you know what if, ifeven just having these fun
little adventures is all that Iget from, you know, as in like.
We're all talk about money andhow much money we make, but
those adventures and um, is, isa pretty good payoff, I think
(16:07):
for, it's pretty cool, isn't it?
Yeah.
It's, it's pretty cool what,what we get to do.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Also get to talk, feel to schoolfor book week, which is pretty
incredible, you know, and thekids are just like, that's,
Speaker 3 (16:17):
that's my mom coming and talking at,
Tina (16:19):
at, um, book week.
Like that's a moment as well.
So I'm sure.
Um.
Will be a lasting memory memoryfor them as well.
So all of that is just, yeah, areally incredible experience
Madeleine (16:33):
that That's amazing.
But I feel though as well, thisis not gonna be the end for you
in all your future author careermoments, nor you Madeleine have
many, many incredible moments.
It's the long game, right?
That's what we do for, that'swhat we tell ourselves.
That's right.
I was actually talking withsomeone yesterday about.
What it's like being a debutauthor and you do put a lot of
(16:56):
time and investment into socialmedia and, and your own personal
expense, like coming, flyingdown to Melbourne as an example
for your book launch, and youput in a lot of this time and
investment.
I think you have to see this aspart of your business, isn't it?
If you were a small businessowner and starting up your
business, you wouldn't expect tomake any returns in your first
(17:19):
few years.
'cause you're That's exactly
Tina (17:20):
right.
Yeah.
You don't And that's, that'sbusiness.
And it is true.
If that is your business andit's your job, you do a lot of
stuff for free.
You put a lot, a lot out therefor free as well to, you know,
build trust and faith and getpeople to know you and your
brand.
Yes.
And then invest in you
Speaker 3 (17:36):
in the
Tina (17:36):
long.
Term and become, you know, along term reader and, uh, yeah.
So it certainly, yeah, is just,it's, I think that's a really
good way to look at it andespecially for debut authors who
are, who are yes, waiting forthe money to come in.
Um, if you look at it like it isa business and you invest
everything you've got into itand all your time, and
eventually it will.
(17:58):
If you run your business well,it'll,
Madeleine (18:00):
it'll come to you.
I'm, I'm sure.
Exactly.
And, and you know, I think,well, we've spoken to so many
authors about how they, theymight not be a success and, and
I guess success is defined bypeople differently, but a
bestselling, a bestseller ontheir debut and.
That doesn't mean that's the endof your career if you don't
(18:21):
sell.
Well, you, you, you, you know,you could become a breakout on
your third, your fourth, your
Tina (18:27):
fifth book.
Oh, you hear it all the time,don't you?
Yes.
Someone's, uh, a number one withthis smash hit and then you find
out they've got this.
Back catalog exactly that no
Madeleine (18:35):
one knew about until now.
Um, oh, Shane Currie Chandrin aswell, like Natasha interviewed.
Um, and that was an amazinginterview and that shows, you
know, miles Franklinaward-winning author that had
been a bestseller even beforewinning that award.
And that was her third book, Ithink, at that time.
So, um, and now people arepicking up her back lists.
(18:55):
So yeah, it does show that, Ithink too, as an emerging
writer, before even beingpublished.
Taking that time to invest indoing courses, in turning up to
even just book launches andevents.
Um, being part of the community,having a social media presence,
building a network, like that'sall time investment away from
(19:17):
writing, right?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Mm.
Madeleine (19:19):
But I don't think that's, that, that also is time
spent building your reputationand your business.
And it shouldn't be somethingthat you disregard as wasted
time.
Tina (19:30):
No, and it's all learning too.
I find that really important.
I think it would be terriblyhard to, uh, have a book launch
or do the social media authorstuff.
Um, if you had never been to oneand you had never followed any
other authors or communicatedwith any other authors or just,
you know, learn from them justthrough networking and
(19:51):
communications and making thosecontacts, um, what the author.
Life is like.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (19:58):
Exactly.
Do you think?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Olivia O'Flynn (20:06):
Hello, this is Olivia O'Flynn and my debut
Romantasy Ever Blessed is Outnow with Harper Voyager, which
is an imprint of the HarperCollins publishers.
Um, it is where love, mythologyand magic collide, and it
includes some of the genre'smost beloved tropes, such as
Slow Burn Enemies to Lovers, wehave Warriors Witches fated Love
(20:29):
Failing Magic in heaps of queerrepresentation as well.
We follow the journey of Elva,who is a warrior princess,
forced into an arrangedmarriage.
And Anez, who is a hunted witchacross the story as they try to
navigate their new normals andsave the lands that is being
ravaged by a blight.
(20:50):
So if this sounds up your alley,please check out.
Ever blessed.
I'm so proud of the book andwhat it has become.
And if you like ramantasy, ifyou like even just fantasy.
See with heaps of world buildingand maybe a little bit of spice,
then I think this book is upYour Alley Ever Blessed is out
now.
Madeleine (21:13):
Now, Tina, your updates, what have you, you've
probably been prepping for Neekain the storm, I'm guessing?
I have.
And um, yes.
I talk
Tina (21:21):
about sort of taking away from riding time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it's fun.
It's so fun'cause I'm making,um.
Uh, I've got, so I've got somelibrary visits coming up for
Gold Coast Library in the schoolholidays.
I'll also be doing a workshopfor kids at where the wild
things are in their schoolholidays as well.
And Quick Brown Fox.
I'm doing a really cool workshopthere as well.
Um, so I've got a few things on.
(21:45):
Um, but, so I'm just kind of.
Prepping for the workshops,which has been so fun because I
just have this like endless likelist of ideas.
'cause when it comes to kids andanimals and doing like fun
little vet exams and stuff, I'mdoing all that, including all of
that and, um, and games andjust, yeah.
Anyway, if anyone can get alongto any of them, um, they, I will
(22:05):
list them all of my Instagramnext week, but they, um.
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
That's so cool.
That sounds
Madeleine (22:12):
so much fun.
It's so fun.
Yeah.
Um, and coincide with the schoolholidays, I'm guessing as well.
Tina (22:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is handy.
Um, but they do take up a lot oftime.
Mm-hmm.
But I feel like, you know, onceI, I've given myself a deadline
of maybe till Monday for nextcouple, another couple of days,
and then I'm going to, uh, getback into, um, yeah, the last
manuscript that I'm writing, I'mgonna give it another, just a
(22:37):
big polish and then.
Is this the, uh, third book
Madeleine (22:40):
in the Neeka one?
No, that one is.
Basically done.
I just, I'm just waiting onedits to come back and give it
another read through.
And what's the title of thatone?
Something completely different.
Um, that one's called, uh, Neekaand the Great Search and Cool,
cool.
Tina (22:55):
Yeah, it's, there's in the back of Neeka in the Storm.
It's got a little, the blurb forit, so, um, that'll be exciting
too.
So many more Neeka adventures tocome.
I love that.
But that's, um, that's sort ofbeen my.
Update, um, yeah, just kind ofworking on that and
Speaker 4 (23:10):
mm-hmm.
Tina (23:10):
And, um, a little bit of writing,
Madeleine (23:13):
uh, but we, oh wait.
You need to talk about what thenews that both you and Natasha
received last week as well, andthen my massive fomo.
Tina (23:22):
So yes, we do have some really super fun.
Exciting news and it's, and it'sjust, and it's actually funny as
well,
Madeleine (23:29):
but it's very funny.
Oh, so I'm so, so incrediblyjealous and endless and got all
the FOMO vibes.
Oh my God.
I can't see.
You should have entered and you
Speaker 3 (23:40):
could have been coming to, oh,
Tina (23:41):
well, so I got the very exciting news last week that I
was, long listed or noshortlisted actually for the
writers on the Reef Residency,which is run by James Cook
University, and it's based onmagnetic island.
And uh, so you have to enter andyou have to say, you know, the,
(24:03):
what you're working on, it hasto fill particular criteria.
Um, so it's the Roderick Center.
James Cook University writers onthe Reef residency.
And um,
Madeleine (24:13):
so basically you're on
Tina (24:14):
an island, you're basically Queensland on an
island for like seven nights.
Just working.
It's writing time, it's workingon your, on your manuscript.
So that was super exciting andI, I couldn't believe it when I
saw that Natasha Ry our, one ofour co-hosts here on the book
deal, had actually shortlistedas well.
(24:35):
So we're messaging back andforth like, oh my God, this is
hilarious.
And then we found out that weactually both got.
The residency as well.
So we are both gonna be onmagnetic island for a week in
August, doing nothing butwriting.
And Madeleine is.
Very upset that she's not gonnabe there with us.
Madeleine (24:55):
I mean, okay, so I am thrilled for the both of you,
but when I heard that you bothare going to be together on this
beautiful island for a wholeweek, I'm like, oh my God, I'm
gonna get replaced.
Like, that's it.
What's the chances we may notcome back?
Tina (25:13):
Um, its just a tropical island in Queensland, just
Madeleine (25:17):
a tropical island in Queensland and a resort, right?
It's gonna be, it's a privatehouse.
Is there a pool?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yes.
Oh,
Madeleine (25:28):
is it beach front?
Yes.
Oh, there's literally beachfront.
Yeah.
And food is at all included?
Tina (25:34):
Yeah.
Oh, it's all, well, we just haveto turn up and write and I have
to say, um, so it's hilarious.
So.
It's hilarious and it's gonna beamazing.
And honestly, just, I'm gonnaget some writing done, my
friend.
I cannot wait.
I bet,
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I bet.
Uh,
Tina (25:49):
but yeah, I couldn't believe it when we both got on.
We are going to record a podcastepisode while we're there.
It's gonna be Island Edition.
Madeleine (25:57):
Oh.
I join from Zoom.
No, no, no, no.
We'll be on the beach.
You guys, you enjoy your bloodymagnetic island experience and
I'm just gonna be in freezingMelbourne in August.
Just hating life.
Okay, we'll, we'll try not tosend you too many photos.
Please don't.
Okay?
Please don't.
(26:19):
Please do send me all thephotos.
I wanna be included.
Tina (26:23):
But you know what I have to say, I, um, you know what was
on my vision board?
Madeleine (26:30):
Okay.
Can we talk about vision boards?
Do you have one in your office?
Tina (26:33):
You know what, I haven't even finished it yet, but that
thus is the power of the visionboard.
Okay.
And I think I mentioned itrecently, we've been talking
jokingly about manifesting andstuff, right?
Yes.
But.
I did mention I've, I haverecorded an interview with Jane
Tara, who is all over themanifesting all over the Vision
Morning.
I'm so excited for this one,that episode.
(26:53):
Me too.
Me too.
I can't wait.
Geez.
We've been so busy with thepodcast and so many incredible
guests, so it's, it's coming.
I think it might even be thefollowing week.
Mm-hmm.
After this ep, which.
Mm-hmm.
The following week, thefollowing up after this one.
Um, and after I chatted with herand after I read a bit more
about it from some of therecommendations that she had, I
was like, yeah, I love thisvision boarding thing.
(27:14):
If anything, it's a plan andit's just like, know where you
want to go.
And I, um, most certainly had apicture on there of a tropical
island in Queensland.
No, was I keep.
I, um, just have always wantedto just take myself off to an
island and write mm-hmm.
For a week.
So, and look, now it's happened.
(27:37):
Oh my God.
Three things have happened on myvision board so far, and like I
said, I haven't finished itstill.
I'm doing it in Canva and I'vebeen taking some time coming
back and doing it.
And three things have happenedso far.
Madeleine (27:48):
Oh my God.
Quit like six figure multi-bookdeal on that, that one, that
one.
What's with there?
God, Neeka, Neeka could beperfect.
Mini series.
My God.
Do it.
Do it, do
Tina (28:03):
it.
Do it.
Get time.
Give it
Speaker 3 (28:04):
time
Tina (28:04):
though.
And those ones need a little bitof time, but you know, so far
it's some pretty good odds.
I have to say.
I, I plan on getting everythingon my vision board by the end of
the year.
Madeleine (28:13):
Do I get a print it and put it somewhere?
I am.
Tina (28:15):
Yeah.
I will.
Yes.
I'm gonna frame it.
I'm gonna put it beside my bed.
So I look at it every nightbefore I go to sleep and I look
at it in the morning.
Madeleine (28:21):
Did um, just my memory is triggering.
Do you have something on theback of your toilet door?
Oh, who was I talking to?
They've got like a, like visionboard on the back of their
toilet door.
Heard.
That's a good
Tina (28:34):
spot to put
Madeleine (28:34):
it.
Because you do visit it severaltimes a day.
Plenty of times.
You spend a bit of time there.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (28:40):
I mean, we, the book deal podcast, we're not, we
haven't done an episode unlesswe talk about Pooh, so,
Tina (28:47):
I'm sorry.
I think most of that's my fault.
It's my, it's my zookeeperbackground.
We always conversation.
It's.
Turns into poo.
I was gonna mention it beforewhen I was talking about my
workshops, but I thought, no,no.
Madeleine (28:59):
And then you
Tina (28:59):
brought it, you won't descend, then you, then you did.
That's good.
Good, good, good.
Um, no, I don't, but they do sayput it somewhere where you can
keep.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (29:07):
But if you wanna keep it private so other people.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
That's
Tina (29:11):
too, but my mine's still on, on cam.
I've still got a couple of spotsto fill that I'm thinking about.
So will you share it with me?
Madeleine (29:17):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (29:18):
When I finish it, I will.
And you wait.
You'll listen to Jane's episodeand you'll be totally making
your own.
Madeleine (29:23):
Okay.
I don't know what to put onthere.
Tina (29:26):
It's, that's okay.
But I'll think about it.
Mm.
Madeleine (29:28):
And
Tina (29:29):
it, and I think, and one of the parts of the conversation
was that I think you surpriseyourself with, with what you do
put on there.
Mm-hmm.
Because I put some of the reallyobvious things for authors, like
making all this money and likebeing top of this chart and all
that sort of thing.
And I was like, actually
Speaker 3 (29:44):
that doesn't, mm, that doesn't, that's not really
it.
Did you, that joy in the No,
Tina (29:48):
it's the, um, it's probably the more.
How do I get the ti the time?
What's more fulfilling?
And it's having time to write.
Mm-hmm.
Having time for family, and thatdoesn't actually need to be the
number one.
Like if I'm, if I'm being signedup for books and I'm making more
books and I'm writing morestories, it doesn't actually
(30:09):
need to be like the top of thecharts.
It just needs to be enough.
Oh, Tina, but you profit If itwas a six figure deal, I also
wouldn't say no to that.
Madeleine (30:19):
Yeah, you're like, actually Harper Collins, I'm
happy right now just making abook.
Yeah.
Tina (30:25):
Look, I, and I think that I've had a pretty good start and
I've been incredibly Yes.
Madeleine (30:33):
That has to be your top tip, right, for today.
Like having, just having andcrafting time, I think for doing
what you love.
It's really, really important,isn't it?
And you do that by waking up atfour 30 and doing all sorts of
crazy, crazy things.
But I think also having a lifeoutside of writing is important.
(30:55):
So when you're talking aboutspending time with family, and
you know, that's probablysomething I've neglected in the
last five to six weeks, is myfriends and my family and my
life are outside of writing.
And I think that's okay because.
It's been a busy period.
Tina (31:11):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (31:11):
But that's why you know, my friends here now and
after this we're gonna have somedinner together and talk.
Yeah.
It's nice to be able to dothings that take you out of that
head space for a bit.
And I think that's important aswell.
'cause that's what life's allabout, isn't it?
Yes.
Not just buried it in yourlaptop.
Tina (31:29):
No, I know, and I, yes, I do have to remind myself that
sometimes, it's a only shortperiod of time.
That you're busy for and allyour friends will hang around
and wait for you to come out theother side of it.
I feel like this is just like abig long counseling session that
Madeleine (31:44):
I know.
I feel like it's really nice.
Lovely in, in very exciting newsas well.
I've gone part-time at work.
Mm-hmm.
I'm no longer a full-timeemployee.
Um, that's very exciting.
And I think when you weretalking about.
In your vision board, having thegoal of having that time to, to
create and, and, and practiceyour craft and write the novels
(32:05):
and the books that you wannawrite, that, that's a big tick,
a big goal for me.
I mean, I'm still working fourdays a week, but.
That extra day makes adifference.
Mm.
I've already found, I mean, it'sonly been a few weeks, but Yep.
Already, it's just making a hugedifference and I'm very
cognizant so that it's aprivilege and that I can do this
(32:26):
because I have a privilege to beable to do it.
And I know that that's notalways the case for everybody.
So I'm super grateful for that,and I'm gonna use that time
wisely, I hope.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (32:36):
Yeah.
It is precious, pre precioustime.
Madeleine (32:40):
You're just thinking kombucha.
You're not even even drinking.
Tina (32:44):
Oh, look.
Well, you know, Madeleine, wedid have a plan for, well, a
tonight discussion, but we wentoff, but that's okay.
And I love that.
That's okay.
But, oh, should
Madeleine (32:52):
we actually tell listeners though what our plan
is for our catch up chats?
Because I don't think we'veannounced what our plan is.
We we're changing things upagain.
Mm-hmm.
But we're, we're kind of goingback to the old.
Tina (33:06):
Old format.
The old format of we, we'll bedoing our fortnightly catchups
Madeleine (33:11):
again.
Yes.
Tina (33:11):
Yay.
Madeleine (33:13):
So we'll be catch.
'cause originally we were doingonce a month and then we were
doing author interviews.
Mm-hmm.
But we decided to come back anddo fortnightly.
Why did we decide that?
Tina (33:23):
Because we missed these really lovely chats.
Dunno if anyone else does, butwe did
Madeleine (33:30):
and it's a good excuse.
That's right.
That's right.
And actually we were gettingsome feedback going, yes, yes.
Catch up chats.
And perhaps they don't servemuch of a purpose, but that's
okay.
We, we get to catch up.
And I think
Tina (33:43):
there was some golden nuggets in that discussion then
that we just had.
I think we, we go, we do ourbest work when we are just
Madeleine (33:49):
chatting away.
That's right.
That's right.
What, what, what were we gonnacatch up on today?
We had a plan that you'd, oh,let's save it for next time and
see if we get to it.
But I did.
Sounds
Tina (33:58):
good.
Um, I think two things that wedid.
That would be cool to, um, chatabout is.
Um, recommendations Mm.
Of various things.
Mm-hmm.
And I did want to, um, make alittle recommendation because it
had come up recently withanother author friend who is
sort of transitioning frompicture books and trying their
hand at some sort of longer formwriting of mm-hmm.
(34:22):
Um, children's books and, youknow, they'll just asking for
some advice and some tips on,on.
You know, really kind oflearning how to structure
stories and flow and all thatsort of thing.
And um, yeah, they were talkingabout listening to the Story
Grid podcast and there's also,oh, I haven't heard of that one.
Yeah, it's, um, it's good.
And there's also a story grid.
Book and you can read both ofthem.
(34:45):
And they're very good.
I feel like though they're,they're for like advanced
plotters and planners.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (34:51):
So what I suggested to her is this podcast that I, um,
listened to a lot when I wasalso just.
Getting really serious aboutwhen I had my first full
manuscript, and I just wanted tomake sure that I was hitting all
the marks.
And it's actually called FictionWriting Made Easy by Savannah
Gibo, and it is a podcast thatshe does these really short, oh,
(35:16):
actually she's got, she's gotquite a lot of episodes now, but
she does these quite shortepisodes where she basically
goes through every, importantaspect of books like, of story
structure, so things like, um.
What kind of genre it is.
So she goes through that.
Um, yeah, what's sort of theinternal story, the external
(35:38):
story?
Um, yeah, look it up and, andsee if you like it.
But she's also got a really goodwebsite that is like a companion
to the podcast and there'sprobably a good place to.
Start because all the, all thepodcasts have like a written
sort of blog for each one.
So if you prefer to look it upand they have like all these
printable spreadsheet, um,printable sheets so you can plot
to try and work out what yourgenre is or work out where
(35:59):
you've gone wrong or sort ofjust your basic overall.
It's really, really handy.
Don't laugh at me, Madeleine,about my plotting and planning.
Madeleine (36:08):
Like, I'm like glazing over.
'cause I'm like, I can't dothis.
This sounds like awful to me.
Tina (36:15):
It's extremely handy for people who wanna do that, and it
is, it's like kind of a nice,easy way in and story grids
like.
A few steps beyond that.
So because Okay, so, um, youwould hate Story Grid then.
Madeleine (36:27):
I know.
Well, for context, Tina waslike, before we hit record,
she's like, are any likepodcasts that you listen to, to
help you with your writing andall that kind of stuff?
I was like, oh, I don't know.
I just, you just listen to thebook deal.
That's all.
Yeah.
I was like, all I do is just thebook deal, but I, I mean, I do
love secrets from the GreenRoom, like that's mm-hmm.
(36:47):
It's more about just talkingabout like writers and craft and
I, I enjoy like Australianwriter center and stuff, but,
but, um, in terms of likewriting craft, it's not
something, and plotting andplanning and, um, hitting marks,
which is what you were saying,hitting marks.
I've never thought about that.
So when you were saying allthese things, I was like, oh,
(37:10):
I've never done that in my life.
Tina (37:11):
And that it's a, it's a good check.
And for people who are startingout, just to make sure that
they.
Um, if or if it's not working.
If your story's just not workingfor whatever reason Mm.
And you can't fix it, that'swhen it comes in really handy.
It's a nice little check offthat be like, oh, cool, I've
done that.
I'm hitting all the marks.
So my top tip is following offon from that, if your story is
(37:32):
not working, go and check outthis podcast and website of how
do you know when a story's notworking?
Um, and look, I think I, I'mtrying to think back.
It was a while ago now when Icame to.
Came to looking into all ofthat.
'cause I was the same.
I was like, oh my God.
And sometimes I would listen tosome podcasts and I'd be like,
what are they even talkingabout?
(37:53):
Like they're breaking it down.
And to me I was like, that'sfeels really mechanical and
really gross.
Like just, just how are yougetting to that?
That's not a good way to write.
It's probably not a good way towrite, but it's a good way.
To structure, look at it afteryou've written it and you've got
the, and you've got the workthere in front of you.
How do you know if it's notright?
(38:13):
I think if your plot, maybe ifyour plot's just not working,
you've got plotholes or it feelslike it runs outta steam.
Um, I think you know that themiddle, the.
Saggy middle bit saggy.
Is it saggy or is it soggy?
Saggy, yeah.
Is it saggy middle or soggy?
Middle.
I dunno.
Is there, is there a term forit?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(38:34):
Um, the middle.
Because, you know, the first actis super fun.
Yeah.
And the last act super funbecause it's all coming
together.
Yeah.
In the middle, people tend tojust go, oh, how do I get from
one to the other?
Madeleine (38:45):
But it, but people actually call, there's a term
that people use.
Yeah.
I think it's called.
A saggy visually makes moresense than soggy, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Either way.
Either way.
They're both.
I didn't know that people
Madeleine (38:58):
shared that.
Tina (38:59):
I didn't
Madeleine (38:59):
know that was a
Tina (39:00):
thing.
Yeah, I think it's a commonthing where people just don't.
Yeah, just, or they just hit abrick wall, I dunno whether to
go any further.
And there are ways, um, of yeah,checking it off and I think
that's when it comes in.
Incredibly helpful.
So how, so that's maybe one dayof knowing
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Yeah.
Tina (39:16):
Do
Madeleine (39:16):
you know, I've never really thought of it in that
way, where you feel like yourstory stuck, but I feel it.
Like I don't look at somethingand go, oh, this is stuck from a
plot perspective.
I feel it in my gut.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like an intuition.
Tina (39:34):
Yes.
And that's, and, and I meanit's, and that's the, I guess
the physical way of knowing, butthen like, the practical way is
like,'cause it is stuck.
So you are going, I know there'ssomething wrong with it and I
know it's just not working.
And then yeah, if you like,plotted it out or something,
you, you, you could find whatit, what it is.
(39:55):
Sometimes it is just, I can justdelete all the
Madeleine (39:56):
words and then just start again.
And that can, you can, you cando that too.
'cause sometimes it probablyjust doesn't work.
Tina (40:02):
You know, maybe you get to the end and you're like,
something didn't, something'snot right.
Madeleine (40:06):
But maybe instead of, because it, it feels very
drastic to just delete all thewords.
And that's what I've done twicenow.
Um, perhaps I should have just.
Plotted it out and then foundwhere it's getting stuck maybe.
And maybe that could popped it.
Well, maybe.
Tina (40:20):
And it probably isn't like, it probably sounds more
work than it is.
It's probably just like lookingat it from a distance and going,
mm, well these are the thingsthat you've gotta hit.
Oh, okay.
I just haven't put enough energyinto this section here.
And the middle, you know, hasn'tpeaked for whatever reason.
I need to just push and push alittle bit further.
(40:42):
Um.
To get to that middle.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe that's all that it is.
And I think also when you havedeadlines and stuff, you can't,
you don't necessarily have aluxury of.
No.
Describing 20,000 words andchucking them.
Madeleine (40:55):
No, that's true.
Deadlines add that additionalpressure.
Whereas when you are emergingand you haven't got a deal
behind you, you can put thatmanuscript down for a few
months.
Yeah, come back to it.
And I think having that abilityto see it from above is really,
really important.
And when you are down in theweeds with the manuscript, you
cannot see the issues whenyou're down there.
Tina (41:14):
No.
And sometimes you just falloutta love with it yourself and
you don't wanna write it.
Isn't that, and sometimesthere's nothing you can do about
that.
I haven't ne, I haven't actuallyne done that myself, but I can
see how it can happen.
Madeleine (41:24):
Yeah.
That happened
Tina (41:25):
to me.
What happened to,
Madeleine (41:26):
yeah.
Yeah, it happened to me and Ithink I will fall back in love
with that manuscript, but Ithink like I got halfway through
and I fell out of love with it.
I, I think there was some issueswith it.
But I felt the passion justbleeding out of me.
Yeah.
You need
Tina (41:41):
to at least see the end of your, of that story and be
excited to get there.
Madeleine (41:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You
Tina (41:46):
know, it might take a little bit of practical thinking
and work to get there, but ifyou're not even looking at that
end bit and feeling excited forit, then yeah.
Yeah.
It's
Madeleine (41:54):
a strange one.
But then I think also if youare.
Uh, you, you, you, you hear theother voices of other characters
or other stories and they takeover always.
And it's when you get, uh,
Tina (42:07):
past the first exciting act, right?
Yes.
And then, then the next storystarts trying to pull you away.
I know it's hard.
And that's when you dump all theideas crazily.
Like it may not.
No.
And then you go back to your, tothat one, unless you prefer to
do the other one.
Madeleine (42:24):
I have a story.
I have a story idea for you,Tina.
Oh, okay.
Um, I, me to write that.
Okay.
So just imagine this.
Okay.
Magnetic island.
Mm.
There's a murder.
'cause all my stories alwaysstart with murder.
Mm.
Tina (42:37):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (42:38):
And then islands are a good place for murder.
Yes.
And then a group of writers areall suspect.
They're on a writing retreat fora week, and they have to try and
solves the murder.
Jerome forced proximity.
I like that.
And one of them might be themurderer.
Tina (42:54):
Mm.
My God.
Well, Madeleine, we have.
Completely gone over time andcompletely off script again,
Madeleine (42:59):
but it has been joyful.
I'll let you get back to your,to your, I love your, I just
love your optimism.
When you sent me the, um, you'relike, oh, what should we talk
about today?
And you sent me like the drafttalking points and um, we have
discussed exactly zero of, oh noone I sent one outta six
recommendation.
Yeah.
One out six.
Mm-hmm.
(43:19):
So good.
Good on us.
Yep.
Oh, well.
Well, I hope everyone hasenjoyed our.
I won't say the S word.
So we don't insightful episodeexplicit, but our talking, um,
and it's been fun and we shoulddo this every Saturday night,
but next time you're not gonnabe in your pajamas and you'll
have a glass of wine.
Mm-hmm.
Let's do that, Tina, with aglass of wine, everybody.
(43:41):
That will be, that'll be fun.
Tina (43:42):
Yep.
Hey, and you know what though?
I think it should be a glass ofbubbles for us, because I'm
pretty sure it's going to belike our one, one year of the
book.
Steal podcast.
Madeleine (43:56):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
And we're up July.
We're up episode 36.
We've done 36 episodes and Ithink we're doing well.
That's really exciting.
Okay, so thank you to everybodyfor continuing to listen in
every week.
We really appreciate it and yourengagement and um, it's been so
great.
Tina (44:15):
And leave us a review, please, if that's okay.
Um, because it definitely does,uh, help get, uh, other people
to find our podcast.
And, you know, they could find,you know, these chats extremely
helpful for their writing.
Yes, please do.
Madeleine (44:29):
And I mean, Tina and I, and Natasha as well, we've.
Financially backed this podcastthe last year ourselves.
Um, we do it because we love it.
Um, we have learned so muchalong the way as well.
Um, and you know, it's reallyhelpful and I think the best
part is when we see thosereviews coming through.
Um, because we know all thattime and investment and money
(44:51):
that we're putting into it isworthwhile.
When we, that's where we knowthat people are enjoying this,
Tina (44:56):
and that's true.
Good fun.
Thank.
Great way to wrap.
Wrap it up.
Madeleine.
Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Madeleine (45:02):
It was good to chat.
Have yeah.
Enjoy your um, wait, what wereyou up to again?
My cross stitch.
Tina (45:12):
I'm gonna post a photo so everyone can enjoy your
progress.
My cross stitch.
Madeleine (45:16):
Enjoy your coloring by paint, by numbers in cross
stitch and tv.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (2) (45:25):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new S drop and to keep up
to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover
the inspiring stories, theauthors behind your favorite
books.
Tina (00:15):
No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got
you covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
Madeleine (00:20):
And I'm Madeleine Cleary, and join us as we pull
back the curtain of publishedauthors
Tina (00:25):
one deal at a time.
Madeleine (00:29):
The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional
owners, the land and waters,which it's recorded on and pays
respect to their elders past,present, and emerging.
Tina (00:46):
Good evening, Madeleine.
Madeleine (00:48):
Hi Tina.
How are you going over there?
Ah, I'm having a great night.
It's Saturday night.
We're, we're partying on thepodcast tonight.
Are we partying or are you Well,we're not gonna record on a
Saturday night though.
Do we met?
Well, no.
Tina (01:04):
No.
You know, and you know,sometimes on a Saturday night
some people have plans.
That's true.
That's true.
Some people are doing funthings.
Like yourself.
Some people are, are sitting athome in their pajamas and
drinking kombucha like me.
Madeleine (01:18):
But you are, I mean, I love that you've prepared
like, so just for context, it'sseven o'clock on Saturday night
as well, and Tina has preppedfor bed.
She's in her pajamas.
She's just taken a big swig ofher kombucha.
Are you about, it's the guthealth.
Are you prepping for bedstraight after this podcast?
Tina (01:37):
No.
God, it is been set up.
I almost don't wanna admit whatmy plans were for afterwards.
Oh my gosh.
Um, please tell me, uh, while Idrink my wine.
Well, last night, I, last nightI finished my paint by numbers.
Oh, you're getting into thatfad.
That's a thing at the moment,isn't it?
(01:58):
I, well, I've been doing it fora little while.
I actually bought some for meand my son to do together, which
was really cute, and he did.
Oh, oh, so you, you started thetrend.
I was to all me.
Okay.
You're ahead.
It's totally me.
Everyone heard that I was doingit and got on board.
Is it good?
You know what I.
I'm total hyper focus though,so, um.
I get really stuck into it.
(02:20):
Mm.
But you know, when I found itreally helpful, and I'm sure
it's not just paint by numbers.
I'm sure, I'm sure there's lotsof other things, like after
this,'cause I've just finished,I was gonna get onto one of my
cross stitches.
Madeleine (02:29):
Oh my God.
Tina.
Saturday night at Tina's
Tina (02:32):
place.
It's
Madeleine (02:32):
getting
Tina (02:33):
wild.
Like, but they are, they, itgets a really cool and funky
ones.
I'm gonna post it on myInstagram so everyone can see.
They're cool.
They're not daggy anymore.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe a little bit.
Um.
But you know what?
It's good.
And may I think you need to dothis, Madeleine, uh, what you
need to do is, I think it's veryimportant and especially in this
(02:56):
period of time, Madeleine, soall debut authors that are
listening who are going intothis, you may be, you may be
doing art and craft and thingsanyway, but it is so good as a
switch off.
Madeleine (03:10):
Of your
Tina (03:11):
brain.
And I actually find it superrelaxing and you know, I, I
actually put my headphones inand listen to and watch
something at the same time.
So I'm watching a show, like Ireally like Well, you're doing
Madeleine (03:20):
so many things at the same time.
So you're doing paint by numbersor cross stitching plus watching
tv.
Yeah,
Tina (03:26):
at the same,
Madeleine (03:27):
at the same time.
But I'm watching
Tina (03:28):
something that's you.
Um, but it's not thinking aboutsocials, it's not thinking about
the next words that I'm gonnawrite.
It's not thinking about That'strue.
You know, doing all that stuff.
It really, it's still a switchoff, like, you know, just
watching brain numbingtelevision and you don't have to
do that, or some music or apodcast or an audio book.
No, you are right.
Madeleine (03:45):
You're right.
I think that's whilst thepainting, it puts your focus,
your focus on something that'snot in your brain buzzing around
in your brain.
Okay.
So I'm gonna show you something.
That's literally in my officeright now.
Um, I agree.
I have never done paint bynumbers, but what I have done,
and this I think is on themewith Saturday night, okay.
Is the.
(04:06):
Uh, Pinot and Picasso.
Have you heard?
Oh,
Speaker 4 (04:08):
yes, yes.
So
Madeleine (04:10):
with my girlfriends, actually my friend who is over
at the moment, um, we went anddid this together, um, in this
like really trendy place.
We're the literally the oldestpeople at this play?
No.
Oh really?
Oh, really?
We're getting into it.
Oh my gosh, yes.
And we, um, had a dinner bookingearlier and we probably left it.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Mm,
Madeleine (04:30):
we were pushing time and so we rocked up late to this
pinot and Picasso and all thesereally trendy young people in
inner city.
Melbourne had already like, setup, like they were full on into
it, and then we'd had a fewwines and so we walked in like
stumbling in like laughing, likecausing, not taking it very
seriously, clearly not taking itseriously.
(04:50):
But, oh my gosh, I, I was inthat period.
I think it, it was just beforeButterfly Women came out.
So I was, you know, your braingets full of like buzzing kind
of things and it's hard toswitch off and focus, but I
think there's something to dowith painting.
So let me, I can show you thepainting that I did, please.
It's right in my office.
Wonder.
Okay.
Tina (05:10):
And I'll, we can pop this up.
Oh, it's, oh my God.
So did you, okay everyone, I'mgonna explain, I'm looking at
the cutest butterfly thatMadeleine has painted this way,
and it's like blue and purpleand pink, and it says like a
butterfly.
Her wings unfolded.
Madeleine (05:25):
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Did everyone draw the butterflyor did you.
No, you could say the shoes.
Well, they had, um, uh, likesome standard ones that they
wanted everyone to draw.
Yeah.
And, but my friends and I, wewere like, no, we wanna do what
we wanna do.
And my friends had prepped,they're like a type women.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah.
Madeleine (05:43):
So they had actually gone onto Pinterest and found
what they wanted to paint.
Oh.
And I had not done my research.
I didn't know this was a thing,so I had no idea what to do.
So they, my friends.
Went and found like a butterflything, the word.
So they, they organized me.
Isn't it nice when you've gotfriends that just organize you
and that's It is definitelyhandy at times.
(06:03):
Yes.
Yeah.
So that friend is actually hereright now and we didn't expect
that she would stay.
So we've had a few wines.
So I thought, well, why not jumponto the podcast now?
Yeah.
I love it.
Have a good time.
Yeah.
Next time I'll have to join you.
It sound
Speaker 3 (06:18):
very boring
Madeleine (06:18):
with Natasha as well.
Yes, please.
Oh, that'd be so cool.
So painting.
Okay.
I'm gonna have to get into thispaint painting, or I think
anything crafty.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Mm.
Tina (06:28):
Somethings I'm
Madeleine (06:29):
not very
Tina (06:29):
crafty though, nor am I creative in a different way, way
that I'm not, but nor am I, andthat's why, see, I wish I could
just paint the thing, like mymom is an actual artist and she
keeps, like, she'll walk past meand go, oh, you know, you just
maybe try this.
Brush or maybe try this color,or maybe you should, and I'm
like, mom, no, just, I'm justpainting in the lines.
Hang on, Tina.
Our moms are both artists.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Ah.
Tina (06:51):
Wow.
And you, are you arty?
No.
Oh, I'm, I'm a terrible artist,but we're, we're just still
creative, but with words,
Madeleine (07:00):
but with words.
I've never been creative withother things.
Mm-hmm.
Have you?
Yeah.
I'm terrible.
Tina (07:05):
No.
My
Madeleine (07:05):
mom, she's a beautiful artist.
She, I've got lots of her likepaintings around our house.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah.
And
Madeleine (07:11):
I've just never had that skill.
And it's funny, isn't it, thatyou gravitate towards something.
She's always been very craftyand I think actually she would
be a good writer as well.
So mom listens to all thatpodcast, so I'm so sure she's
listening to that.
My mom.
Hey Julie.
Tina (07:27):
Um, yeah.
Well that's interesting.
Well, it's certainly like thecreative gene, right?
Mm-hmm.
And we just use words instead ofThat's right.
Ah.
But I would love to be able todo it.
Um.
But I can't So pay by numbers.
It is pay by numbers.
It looks really good at the end.
You just gotta get a good one.
Madeleine (07:42):
And the other thing I found as well is like, I think
listening to music, like takingsome time out, going to a
performance or recital,'causethen you're forced to just spend
two hours just listening.
And I think that's a nice way todecompress as well.
And yeah, decompression issomething that I need to be
thinking about.
I think now five and a halfweeks, almost six weeks actually
(08:04):
since the pop.
Butterfly Women's beingpublished.
So it's now time to rejuvenateand refresh.
Tina (08:09):
I think you should just give it a go.
Go on.
I'll, I'll send you a link tosome cool paper by numbers that
I just saw.
But we didn't, we, we didn'tcome on to talk paper by
numbers.
We had a few things we wanted tochat about, but, um, first let's
do a little bit of an update,Madeleine,'cause it has been an
exciting time.
Um, what's been happening foryou in the last.
(08:29):
Or so, or a couple of weekssince we chatted last?
Madeleine (08:32):
Oh, it, uh, it's been an interesting time actually
because it's been the first, orlast week was the first week I
had where I didn't have an eventor a podcast since the Butterfly
women launched.
So that, um, it, it, it feltstrange actually to just.
Uh, go back to like normal life.
And so I think trying to workout how to adjust back to
(08:54):
normality is something I had tosort of think about and learn.
Um, and I probably spent a daygoing, oh my gosh, this is it.
Like it's done now I need tostart thinking about the next
thing.
And that sort of took me into abit of a head spin, but I think
I've come out of it like prettyexcited about what's next as
well.
And, and I've still got likelots of interesting and fun
(09:17):
things to look forward to.
Like I'm, um, going to theWilliamstown, to the Willie Lit
Festival.
In Williamstown in a couple ofweeks.
Um, and I'm doing this reallycool event with Anne Freeman.
Do you know, do you know Anne?
Yeah.
Um, at El and Bookshop.
So we're talking.
So her book, um, me that you seeis all about the digital age of,
um.
(09:37):
Sort of, you know, like onlyfans.
And, um, it's this really coolbook.
It's amazing.
That's, and so we're talkingabout Flash brothel.
Flash brothels in 19th centuryand the digital age.
So at, can you
Tina (09:48):
tell us what a flash brothel is?
Madeleine (09:50):
Oh, yeah.
So that's
Tina (09:51):
like a, I have an image in my mind, but, well, what do you
think?
What's your image?
To me, a flash brothel soundslike almost like a popup.
Madeleine (10:01):
I mean, it's, it's actually in the 19th century.
It was de de describe a veryhigh class brothel.
Oh, like a flashy brothel?
Flashy brothel flash.
I was like, it's like a flash,like a popup store.
So like a, yeah, it's a veryhigh class brothel, like Madam
Brussels s in Melbourne.
(10:21):
So that was the, the, the waythey described them.
So lots of things still look tolook forward to, but um, I did
some really beautiful events inthe last couple of weeks in
regional Victoria.
Um, so one in Mansfield at InkBookshop, and I don't know, we
didn't know what we wereexpecting, I think.
And it's, it's about a two hourdrive to Mansfield and we were
(10:42):
driving the dark in the rainand.
My husband, he's like, what ifonly five people like show up
because you know, it could bereally awkward.
And we got there and like therewas like 40 people and it was
like a sellout.
It was this beautiful warmevent.
Charlotte who owns the bookshopis amazing.
So we had a great time.
And then, um, we went the nextnight to Menen, which is in
(11:05):
Gippsland again, another liketwo hour drive.
I was in conversation with MarkZa Russell, who's a friend of
the podcast.
And again, I.
So warm, incredible communitydown there.
Um, and I had this incredible,amazing experience where the
last person who was in thesigning line, um, and it was,
(11:26):
this was pretty much my, like,one of my last events.
Um, so it felt like a, a bit ofa final moment.
Like I was going back to workthe next day.
Um, and it was like the lastmoment.
And she just said to me, she'slike, oh, your book changed my
whole perspective on my life.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Oh.
Wow.
Madeleine (11:43):
And um, mark was sitting next to me and Mark was
just like, I could feel, hearhis grin and feel his grin next
to me.
And she just said like, um, youknow, that she comes from this
like background where she's froma poorer background.
She became a partner in a lawfirm.
Um, she.
And when she was reading thebook, she realized, she was
(12:05):
like, this would've been my life150, 160 years ago.
And it made her feel reallygrateful for all the
opportunities that she's had inher life.
And that's something that whenyou write Tina, you don't expect
to have that response.
You just write a story that youthink people, hopefully you hope
that people like.
(12:25):
But when you get a moment likethat, it makes everything
worthwhile, the driving in thedark, in the rain, all that kind
of stuff.
So absolutely.
That's incredible.
Tina (12:33):
And I feel like I've, I've really been, these last few
weeks I've really beenappreciating those opportunities
and those moments.
And even in a way like, youknow, the, we write because we
love it.
Yeah.
Um, you know, when it comes tobeing a published author, then
they.
That's when all the things likesales and people buying books
(12:54):
and isn't making money and allthat sort of thing.
And, you know, you don't getpaid a lot for your books in
this industry.
Mm-hmm.
But I was even just thinking theother day, if all, if all I get
out of it is these incredible,um, opportunities and adventures
that I didn't normally orwouldn't have had, um, I think
(13:14):
that's.
That's worth it to me.
Yes.
And
Madeleine (13:18):
even, not even like the opportunities to do these
things, but the moments, thosejust small moments in your life,
which only last 30 seconds, butyou know, that will stay with
you
Tina (13:31):
forever because you can't put a price on that feeling, can
you?
And that moment that you had,yeah.
Have you had that?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Um,
Tina (13:39):
but I can't say that anyone's come to me and said
that Walter Zoo has changedtheir life.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
It's different, you know, children, it's, it's kids.
Um, but, you know,
Madeleine (13:49):
and, and they're, they're really cute and very
generous with their Have you hada moment though that's felt very
much like, I'm, I just wannaenjoy this right now.
There's a, there's that feelingthat I think will carry me
through this.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (14:03):
Yeah.
I think there's.
There's probably been a few.
And I think, um, you know, so I,I have book two Neeka in the
storm coming out like nextmonth.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh my gosh.
I'm so
Madeleine (14:14):
excited.
And it's so, and I'm, um, youhaven't asked me for a blurb
quote, by the way.
I'm very pissed off about that.
I dunno,
Tina (14:21):
I'm not sure if your genre kind of gels well with mine.
I mean, well it just, like, Iwould definitely give one.
Um, yeah, but I, um, yeah, soit's, so I'm actually planning
for promo of book, um, of booktwo of Neeka in the Storm and,
(14:43):
um, organizing all my eventsevents.
And we're actually going toMelbourne, to Melbourne Zoo, um,
to have a book launched downthere, which I know you're gonna
be at.
What date is it?
It's the 31st of August.
Madeleine (14:57):
Okay, let me just pop
Tina (14:58):
that in my calendar, if you've even told me the
Madeleine (15:00):
date.
Tina (15:01):
No, I'll, I've only just, I've only just, um, locked it
Madeleine (15:03):
in and
Speaker 4 (15:04):
so I'll do Okay.
You know what?
Madeleine (15:05):
You're very lucky.
I literally come back fromQueensland the day before, so.
I'm so, so glad.
Good.
Tina (15:14):
I'll be actually be in conversation with our friend
Katherine Collette, so she'sgonna be there.
Another friend of
Speaker 3 (15:20):
the podcast, another friend
Tina (15:21):
of the podcast.
Oh my gosh, amazing.
It's just super fun.
It's just gonna be super fun.
There's gonna be lots of animalthemed games and activities and,
um.
Is there a link out now?
Not yet, no.
I'll be doing it next week.
Okay.
So both my, everyone hears this.
It should probably be up and youcan just find it on my website
or on Insta.
Um, but even that, you know,going down to Melbourne and
(15:41):
going with the family andspending some time down there,
you know, we're gonna stay in ahotel, we're gonna stay in the
city, we're gonna do all thesesorts of fun things.
I'm like, you know what if, ifeven just having these fun
little adventures is all that Iget from, you know, as in like.
We're all talk about money andhow much money we make, but
those adventures and um, is, isa pretty good payoff, I think
(16:07):
for, it's pretty cool, isn't it?
Yeah.
It's, it's pretty cool what,what we get to do.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Also get to talk, feel to schoolfor book week, which is pretty
incredible, you know, and thekids are just like, that's,
Speaker 3 (16:17):
that's my mom coming and talking at,
Tina (16:19):
at, um, book week.
Like that's a moment as well.
So I'm sure.
Um.
Will be a lasting memory memoryfor them as well.
So all of that is just, yeah, areally incredible experience
Madeleine (16:33):
that That's amazing.
But I feel though as well, thisis not gonna be the end for you
in all your future author careermoments, nor you Madeleine have
many, many incredible moments.
It's the long game, right?
That's what we do for, that'swhat we tell ourselves.
That's right.
I was actually talking withsomeone yesterday about.
What it's like being a debutauthor and you do put a lot of
(16:56):
time and investment into socialmedia and, and your own personal
expense, like coming, flyingdown to Melbourne as an example
for your book launch, and youput in a lot of this time and
investment.
I think you have to see this aspart of your business, isn't it?
If you were a small businessowner and starting up your
business, you wouldn't expect tomake any returns in your first
(17:19):
few years.
'cause you're That's exactly
Tina (17:20):
right.
Yeah.
You don't And that's, that'sbusiness.
And it is true.
If that is your business andit's your job, you do a lot of
stuff for free.
You put a lot, a lot out therefor free as well to, you know,
build trust and faith and getpeople to know you and your
brand.
Yes.
And then invest in you
Speaker 3 (17:36):
in the
Tina (17:36):
long.
Term and become, you know, along term reader and, uh, yeah.
So it certainly, yeah, is just,it's, I think that's a really
good way to look at it andespecially for debut authors who
are, who are yes, waiting forthe money to come in.
Um, if you look at it like it isa business and you invest
everything you've got into itand all your time, and
eventually it will.
(17:58):
If you run your business well,it'll,
Madeleine (18:00):
it'll come to you.
I'm, I'm sure.
Exactly.
And, and you know, I think,well, we've spoken to so many
authors about how they, theymight not be a success and, and
I guess success is defined bypeople differently, but a
bestselling, a bestseller ontheir debut and.
That doesn't mean that's the endof your career if you don't
(18:21):
sell.
Well, you, you, you, you know,you could become a breakout on
your third, your fourth, your
Tina (18:27):
fifth book.
Oh, you hear it all the time,don't you?
Yes.
Someone's, uh, a number one withthis smash hit and then you find
out they've got this.
Back catalog exactly that no
Madeleine (18:35):
one knew about until now.
Um, oh, Shane Currie Chandrin aswell, like Natasha interviewed.
Um, and that was an amazinginterview and that shows, you
know, miles Franklinaward-winning author that had
been a bestseller even beforewinning that award.
And that was her third book, Ithink, at that time.
So, um, and now people arepicking up her back lists.
(18:55):
So yeah, it does show that, Ithink too, as an emerging
writer, before even beingpublished.
Taking that time to invest indoing courses, in turning up to
even just book launches andevents.
Um, being part of the community,having a social media presence,
building a network, like that'sall time investment away from
(19:17):
writing, right?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Mm.
Madeleine (19:19):
But I don't think that's, that, that also is time
spent building your reputationand your business.
And it shouldn't be somethingthat you disregard as wasted
time.
Tina (19:30):
No, and it's all learning too.
I find that really important.
I think it would be terriblyhard to, uh, have a book launch
or do the social media authorstuff.
Um, if you had never been to oneand you had never followed any
other authors or communicatedwith any other authors or just,
you know, learn from them justthrough networking and
(19:51):
communications and making thosecontacts, um, what the author.
Life is like.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (19:58):
Exactly.
Do you think?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Olivia O'Flynn (20:06):
Hello, this is Olivia O'Flynn and my debut
Romantasy Ever Blessed is Outnow with Harper Voyager, which
is an imprint of the HarperCollins publishers.
Um, it is where love, mythologyand magic collide, and it
includes some of the genre'smost beloved tropes, such as
Slow Burn Enemies to Lovers, wehave Warriors Witches fated Love
(20:29):
Failing Magic in heaps of queerrepresentation as well.
We follow the journey of Elva,who is a warrior princess,
forced into an arrangedmarriage.
And Anez, who is a hunted witchacross the story as they try to
navigate their new normals andsave the lands that is being
ravaged by a blight.
(20:50):
So if this sounds up your alley,please check out.
Ever blessed.
I'm so proud of the book andwhat it has become.
And if you like ramantasy, ifyou like even just fantasy.
See with heaps of world buildingand maybe a little bit of spice,
then I think this book is upYour Alley Ever Blessed is out
now.
Madeleine (21:13):
Now, Tina, your updates, what have you, you've
probably been prepping for Neekain the storm, I'm guessing?
I have.
And um, yes.
I talk
Tina (21:21):
about sort of taking away from riding time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it's fun.
It's so fun'cause I'm making,um.
Uh, I've got, so I've got somelibrary visits coming up for
Gold Coast Library in the schoolholidays.
I'll also be doing a workshopfor kids at where the wild
things are in their schoolholidays as well.
And Quick Brown Fox.
I'm doing a really cool workshopthere as well.
Um, so I've got a few things on.
(21:45):
Um, but, so I'm just kind of.
Prepping for the workshops,which has been so fun because I
just have this like endless likelist of ideas.
'cause when it comes to kids andanimals and doing like fun
little vet exams and stuff, I'mdoing all that, including all of
that and, um, and games andjust, yeah.
Anyway, if anyone can get alongto any of them, um, they, I will
(22:05):
list them all of my Instagramnext week, but they, um.
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
That's so cool.
That sounds
Madeleine (22:12):
so much fun.
It's so fun.
Yeah.
Um, and coincide with the schoolholidays, I'm guessing as well.
Tina (22:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is handy.
Um, but they do take up a lot oftime.
Mm-hmm.
But I feel like, you know, onceI, I've given myself a deadline
of maybe till Monday for nextcouple, another couple of days,
and then I'm going to, uh, getback into, um, yeah, the last
manuscript that I'm writing, I'mgonna give it another, just a
(22:37):
big polish and then.
Is this the, uh, third book
Madeleine (22:40):
in the Neeka one?
No, that one is.
Basically done.
I just, I'm just waiting onedits to come back and give it
another read through.
And what's the title of thatone?
Something completely different.
Um, that one's called, uh, Neekaand the Great Search and Cool,
cool.
Tina (22:55):
Yeah, it's, there's in the back of Neeka in the Storm.
It's got a little, the blurb forit, so, um, that'll be exciting
too.
So many more Neeka adventures tocome.
I love that.
But that's, um, that's sort ofbeen my.
Update, um, yeah, just kind ofworking on that and
Speaker 4 (23:10):
mm-hmm.
Tina (23:10):
And, um, a little bit of writing,
Madeleine (23:13):
uh, but we, oh wait.
You need to talk about what thenews that both you and Natasha
received last week as well, andthen my massive fomo.
Tina (23:22):
So yes, we do have some really super fun.
Exciting news and it's, and it'sjust, and it's actually funny as
well,
Madeleine (23:29):
but it's very funny.
Oh, so I'm so, so incrediblyjealous and endless and got all
the FOMO vibes.
Oh my God.
I can't see.
You should have entered and you
Speaker 3 (23:40):
could have been coming to, oh,
Tina (23:41):
well, so I got the very exciting news last week that I
was, long listed or noshortlisted actually for the
writers on the Reef Residency,which is run by James Cook
University, and it's based onmagnetic island.
And uh, so you have to enter andyou have to say, you know, the,
(24:03):
what you're working on, it hasto fill particular criteria.
Um, so it's the Roderick Center.
James Cook University writers onthe Reef residency.
And um,
Madeleine (24:13):
so basically you're on
Tina (24:14):
an island, you're basically Queensland on an
island for like seven nights.
Just working.
It's writing time, it's workingon your, on your manuscript.
So that was super exciting andI, I couldn't believe it when I
saw that Natasha Ry our, one ofour co-hosts here on the book
deal, had actually shortlistedas well.
(24:35):
So we're messaging back andforth like, oh my God, this is
hilarious.
And then we found out that weactually both got.
The residency as well.
So we are both gonna be onmagnetic island for a week in
August, doing nothing butwriting.
And Madeleine is.
Very upset that she's not gonnabe there with us.
Madeleine (24:55):
I mean, okay, so I am thrilled for the both of you,
but when I heard that you bothare going to be together on this
beautiful island for a wholeweek, I'm like, oh my God, I'm
gonna get replaced.
Like, that's it.
What's the chances we may notcome back?
Tina (25:13):
Um, its just a tropical island in Queensland, just
Madeleine (25:17):
a tropical island in Queensland and a resort, right?
It's gonna be, it's a privatehouse.
Is there a pool?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yes.
Oh,
Madeleine (25:28):
is it beach front?
Yes.
Oh, there's literally beachfront.
Yeah.
And food is at all included?
Tina (25:34):
Yeah.
Oh, it's all, well, we just haveto turn up and write and I have
to say, um, so it's hilarious.
So.
It's hilarious and it's gonna beamazing.
And honestly, just, I'm gonnaget some writing done, my
friend.
I cannot wait.
I bet,
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I bet.
Uh,
Tina (25:49):
but yeah, I couldn't believe it when we both got on.
We are going to record a podcastepisode while we're there.
It's gonna be Island Edition.
Madeleine (25:57):
Oh.
I join from Zoom.
No, no, no, no.
We'll be on the beach.
You guys, you enjoy your bloodymagnetic island experience and
I'm just gonna be in freezingMelbourne in August.
Just hating life.
Okay, we'll, we'll try not tosend you too many photos.
Please don't.
Okay?
Please don't.
(26:19):
Please do send me all thephotos.
I wanna be included.
Tina (26:23):
But you know what I have to say, I, um, you know what was
on my vision board?
Madeleine (26:30):
Okay.
Can we talk about vision boards?
Do you have one in your office?
Tina (26:33):
You know what, I haven't even finished it yet, but that
thus is the power of the visionboard.
Okay.
And I think I mentioned itrecently, we've been talking
jokingly about manifesting andstuff, right?
Yes.
But.
I did mention I've, I haverecorded an interview with Jane
Tara, who is all over themanifesting all over the Vision
Morning.
I'm so excited for this one,that episode.
(26:53):
Me too.
Me too.
I can't wait.
Geez.
We've been so busy with thepodcast and so many incredible
guests, so it's, it's coming.
I think it might even be thefollowing week.
Mm-hmm.
After this ep, which.
Mm-hmm.
The following week, thefollowing up after this one.
Um, and after I chatted with herand after I read a bit more
about it from some of therecommendations that she had, I
was like, yeah, I love thisvision boarding thing.
(27:14):
If anything, it's a plan andit's just like, know where you
want to go.
And I, um, most certainly had apicture on there of a tropical
island in Queensland.
No, was I keep.
I, um, just have always wantedto just take myself off to an
island and write mm-hmm.
For a week.
So, and look, now it's happened.
(27:37):
Oh my God.
Three things have happened on myvision board so far, and like I
said, I haven't finished itstill.
I'm doing it in Canva and I'vebeen taking some time coming
back and doing it.
And three things have happenedso far.
Madeleine (27:48):
Oh my God.
Quit like six figure multi-bookdeal on that, that one, that
one.
What's with there?
God, Neeka, Neeka could beperfect.
Mini series.
My God.
Do it.
Do it, do
Tina (28:03):
it.
Do it.
Get time.
Give it
Speaker 3 (28:04):
time
Tina (28:04):
though.
And those ones need a little bitof time, but you know, so far
it's some pretty good odds.
I have to say.
I, I plan on getting everythingon my vision board by the end of
the year.
Madeleine (28:13):
Do I get a print it and put it somewhere?
I am.
Tina (28:15):
Yeah.
I will.
Yes.
I'm gonna frame it.
I'm gonna put it beside my bed.
So I look at it every nightbefore I go to sleep and I look
at it in the morning.
Madeleine (28:21):
Did um, just my memory is triggering.
Do you have something on theback of your toilet door?
Oh, who was I talking to?
They've got like a, like visionboard on the back of their
toilet door.
Heard.
That's a good
Tina (28:34):
spot to put
Madeleine (28:34):
it.
Because you do visit it severaltimes a day.
Plenty of times.
You spend a bit of time there.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (28:40):
I mean, we, the book deal podcast, we're not, we
haven't done an episode unlesswe talk about Pooh, so,
Tina (28:47):
I'm sorry.
I think most of that's my fault.
It's my, it's my zookeeperbackground.
We always conversation.
It's.
Turns into poo.
I was gonna mention it beforewhen I was talking about my
workshops, but I thought, no,no.
Madeleine (28:59):
And then you
Tina (28:59):
brought it, you won't descend, then you, then you did.
That's good.
Good, good, good.
Um, no, I don't, but they do sayput it somewhere where you can
keep.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (29:07):
But if you wanna keep it private so other people.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
That's
Tina (29:11):
too, but my mine's still on, on cam.
I've still got a couple of spotsto fill that I'm thinking about.
So will you share it with me?
Madeleine (29:17):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (29:18):
When I finish it, I will.
And you wait.
You'll listen to Jane's episodeand you'll be totally making
your own.
Madeleine (29:23):
Okay.
I don't know what to put onthere.
Tina (29:26):
It's, that's okay.
But I'll think about it.
Mm.
Madeleine (29:28):
And
Tina (29:29):
it, and I think, and one of the parts of the conversation
was that I think you surpriseyourself with, with what you do
put on there.
Mm-hmm.
Because I put some of the reallyobvious things for authors, like
making all this money and likebeing top of this chart and all
that sort of thing.
And I was like, actually
Speaker 3 (29:44):
that doesn't, mm, that doesn't, that's not really
it.
Did you, that joy in the No,
Tina (29:48):
it's the, um, it's probably the more.
How do I get the ti the time?
What's more fulfilling?
And it's having time to write.
Mm-hmm.
Having time for family, and thatdoesn't actually need to be the
number one.
Like if I'm, if I'm being signedup for books and I'm making more
books and I'm writing morestories, it doesn't actually
(30:09):
need to be like the top of thecharts.
It just needs to be enough.
Oh, Tina, but you profit If itwas a six figure deal, I also
wouldn't say no to that.
Madeleine (30:19):
Yeah, you're like, actually Harper Collins, I'm
happy right now just making abook.
Yeah.
Tina (30:25):
Look, I, and I think that I've had a pretty good start and
I've been incredibly Yes.
Madeleine (30:33):
That has to be your top tip, right, for today.
Like having, just having andcrafting time, I think for doing
what you love.
It's really, really important,isn't it?
And you do that by waking up atfour 30 and doing all sorts of
crazy, crazy things.
But I think also having a lifeoutside of writing is important.
(30:55):
So when you're talking aboutspending time with family, and
you know, that's probablysomething I've neglected in the
last five to six weeks, is myfriends and my family and my
life are outside of writing.
And I think that's okay because.
It's been a busy period.
Tina (31:11):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (31:11):
But that's why you know, my friends here now and
after this we're gonna have somedinner together and talk.
Yeah.
It's nice to be able to dothings that take you out of that
head space for a bit.
And I think that's important aswell.
'cause that's what life's allabout, isn't it?
Yes.
Not just buried it in yourlaptop.
Tina (31:29):
No, I know, and I, yes, I do have to remind myself that
sometimes, it's a only shortperiod of time.
That you're busy for and allyour friends will hang around
and wait for you to come out theother side of it.
I feel like this is just like abig long counseling session that
Madeleine (31:44):
I know.
I feel like it's really nice.
Lovely in, in very exciting newsas well.
I've gone part-time at work.
Mm-hmm.
I'm no longer a full-timeemployee.
Um, that's very exciting.
And I think when you weretalking about.
In your vision board, having thegoal of having that time to, to
create and, and, and practiceyour craft and write the novels
(32:05):
and the books that you wannawrite, that, that's a big tick,
a big goal for me.
I mean, I'm still working fourdays a week, but.
That extra day makes adifference.
Mm.
I've already found, I mean, it'sonly been a few weeks, but Yep.
Already, it's just making a hugedifference and I'm very
cognizant so that it's aprivilege and that I can do this
(32:26):
because I have a privilege to beable to do it.
And I know that that's notalways the case for everybody.
So I'm super grateful for that,and I'm gonna use that time
wisely, I hope.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (32:36):
Yeah.
It is precious, pre precioustime.
Madeleine (32:40):
You're just thinking kombucha.
You're not even even drinking.
Tina (32:44):
Oh, look.
Well, you know, Madeleine, wedid have a plan for, well, a
tonight discussion, but we wentoff, but that's okay.
And I love that.
That's okay.
But, oh, should
Madeleine (32:52):
we actually tell listeners though what our plan
is for our catch up chats?
Because I don't think we'veannounced what our plan is.
We we're changing things upagain.
Mm-hmm.
But we're, we're kind of goingback to the old.
Tina (33:06):
Old format.
The old format of we, we'll bedoing our fortnightly catchups
Madeleine (33:11):
again.
Yes.
Tina (33:11):
Yay.
Madeleine (33:13):
So we'll be catch.
'cause originally we were doingonce a month and then we were
doing author interviews.
Mm-hmm.
But we decided to come back anddo fortnightly.
Why did we decide that?
Tina (33:23):
Because we missed these really lovely chats.
Dunno if anyone else does, butwe did
Madeleine (33:30):
and it's a good excuse.
That's right.
That's right.
And actually we were gettingsome feedback going, yes, yes.
Catch up chats.
And perhaps they don't servemuch of a purpose, but that's
okay.
We, we get to catch up.
And I think
Tina (33:43):
there was some golden nuggets in that discussion then
that we just had.
I think we, we go, we do ourbest work when we are just
Madeleine (33:49):
chatting away.
That's right.
That's right.
What, what, what were we gonnacatch up on today?
We had a plan that you'd, oh,let's save it for next time and
see if we get to it.
But I did.
Sounds
Tina (33:58):
good.
Um, I think two things that wedid.
That would be cool to, um, chatabout is.
Um, recommendations Mm.
Of various things.
Mm-hmm.
And I did want to, um, make alittle recommendation because it
had come up recently withanother author friend who is
sort of transitioning frompicture books and trying their
hand at some sort of longer formwriting of mm-hmm.
(34:22):
Um, children's books and, youknow, they'll just asking for
some advice and some tips on,on.
You know, really kind oflearning how to structure
stories and flow and all thatsort of thing.
And um, yeah, they were talkingabout listening to the Story
Grid podcast and there's also,oh, I haven't heard of that one.
Yeah, it's, um, it's good.
And there's also a story grid.
Book and you can read both ofthem.
(34:45):
And they're very good.
I feel like though they're,they're for like advanced
plotters and planners.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Mm-hmm.
Tina (34:51):
So what I suggested to her is this podcast that I, um,
listened to a lot when I wasalso just.
Getting really serious aboutwhen I had my first full
manuscript, and I just wanted tomake sure that I was hitting all
the marks.
And it's actually called FictionWriting Made Easy by Savannah
Gibo, and it is a podcast thatshe does these really short, oh,
(35:16):
actually she's got, she's gotquite a lot of episodes now, but
she does these quite shortepisodes where she basically
goes through every, importantaspect of books like, of story
structure, so things like, um.
What kind of genre it is.
So she goes through that.
Um, yeah, what's sort of theinternal story, the external
(35:38):
story?
Um, yeah, look it up and, andsee if you like it.
But she's also got a really goodwebsite that is like a companion
to the podcast and there'sprobably a good place to.
Start because all the, all thepodcasts have like a written
sort of blog for each one.
So if you prefer to look it upand they have like all these
printable spreadsheet, um,printable sheets so you can plot
to try and work out what yourgenre is or work out where
(35:59):
you've gone wrong or sort ofjust your basic overall.
It's really, really handy.
Don't laugh at me, Madeleine,about my plotting and planning.
Madeleine (36:08):
Like, I'm like glazing over.
'cause I'm like, I can't dothis.
This sounds like awful to me.
Tina (36:15):
It's extremely handy for people who wanna do that, and it
is, it's like kind of a nice,easy way in and story grids
like.
A few steps beyond that.
So because Okay, so, um, youwould hate Story Grid then.
Madeleine (36:27):
I know.
Well, for context, Tina waslike, before we hit record,
she's like, are any likepodcasts that you listen to, to
help you with your writing andall that kind of stuff?
I was like, oh, I don't know.
I just, you just listen to thebook deal.
That's all.
Yeah.
I was like, all I do is just thebook deal, but I, I mean, I do
love secrets from the GreenRoom, like that's mm-hmm.
(36:47):
It's more about just talkingabout like writers and craft and
I, I enjoy like Australianwriter center and stuff, but,
but, um, in terms of likewriting craft, it's not
something, and plotting andplanning and, um, hitting marks,
which is what you were saying,hitting marks.
I've never thought about that.
So when you were saying allthese things, I was like, oh,
(37:10):
I've never done that in my life.
Tina (37:11):
And that it's a, it's a good check.
And for people who are startingout, just to make sure that
they.
Um, if or if it's not working.
If your story's just not workingfor whatever reason Mm.
And you can't fix it, that'swhen it comes in really handy.
It's a nice little check offthat be like, oh, cool, I've
done that.
I'm hitting all the marks.
So my top tip is following offon from that, if your story is
(37:32):
not working, go and check outthis podcast and website of how
do you know when a story's notworking?
Um, and look, I think I, I'mtrying to think back.
It was a while ago now when Icame to.
Came to looking into all ofthat.
'cause I was the same.
I was like, oh my God.
And sometimes I would listen tosome podcasts and I'd be like,
what are they even talkingabout?
(37:53):
Like they're breaking it down.
And to me I was like, that'sfeels really mechanical and
really gross.
Like just, just how are yougetting to that?
That's not a good way to write.
It's probably not a good way towrite, but it's a good way.
To structure, look at it afteryou've written it and you've got
the, and you've got the workthere in front of you.
How do you know if it's notright?
(38:13):
I think if your plot, maybe ifyour plot's just not working,
you've got plotholes or it feelslike it runs outta steam.
Um, I think you know that themiddle, the.
Saggy middle bit saggy.
Is it saggy or is it soggy?
Saggy, yeah.
Is it saggy middle or soggy?
Middle.
I dunno.
Is there, is there a term forit?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(38:34):
Um, the middle.
Because, you know, the first actis super fun.
Yeah.
And the last act super funbecause it's all coming
together.
Yeah.
In the middle, people tend tojust go, oh, how do I get from
one to the other?
Madeleine (38:45):
But it, but people actually call, there's a term
that people use.
Yeah.
I think it's called.
A saggy visually makes moresense than soggy, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Either way.
Either way.
They're both.
I didn't know that people
Madeleine (38:58):
shared that.
Tina (38:59):
I didn't
Madeleine (38:59):
know that was a
Tina (39:00):
thing.
Yeah, I think it's a commonthing where people just don't.
Yeah, just, or they just hit abrick wall, I dunno whether to
go any further.
And there are ways, um, of yeah,checking it off and I think
that's when it comes in.
Incredibly helpful.
So how, so that's maybe one dayof knowing
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Yeah.
Tina (39:16):
Do
Madeleine (39:16):
you know, I've never really thought of it in that
way, where you feel like yourstory stuck, but I feel it.
Like I don't look at somethingand go, oh, this is stuck from a
plot perspective.
I feel it in my gut.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like an intuition.
Tina (39:34):
Yes.
And that's, and, and I meanit's, and that's the, I guess
the physical way of knowing, butthen like, the practical way is
like,'cause it is stuck.
So you are going, I know there'ssomething wrong with it and I
know it's just not working.
And then yeah, if you like,plotted it out or something,
you, you, you could find whatit, what it is.
(39:55):
Sometimes it is just, I can justdelete all the
Madeleine (39:56):
words and then just start again.
And that can, you can, you cando that too.
'cause sometimes it probablyjust doesn't work.
Tina (40:02):
You know, maybe you get to the end and you're like,
something didn't, something'snot right.
Madeleine (40:06):
But maybe instead of, because it, it feels very
drastic to just delete all thewords.
And that's what I've done twicenow.
Um, perhaps I should have just.
Plotted it out and then foundwhere it's getting stuck maybe.
And maybe that could popped it.
Well, maybe.
Tina (40:20):
And it probably isn't like, it probably sounds more
work than it is.
It's probably just like lookingat it from a distance and going,
mm, well these are the thingsthat you've gotta hit.
Oh, okay.
I just haven't put enough energyinto this section here.
And the middle, you know, hasn'tpeaked for whatever reason.
I need to just push and push alittle bit further.
(40:42):
Um.
To get to that middle.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe that's all that it is.
And I think also when you havedeadlines and stuff, you can't,
you don't necessarily have aluxury of.
No.
Describing 20,000 words andchucking them.
Madeleine (40:55):
No, that's true.
Deadlines add that additionalpressure.
Whereas when you are emergingand you haven't got a deal
behind you, you can put thatmanuscript down for a few
months.
Yeah, come back to it.
And I think having that abilityto see it from above is really,
really important.
And when you are down in theweeds with the manuscript, you
cannot see the issues whenyou're down there.
Tina (41:14):
No.
And sometimes you just falloutta love with it yourself and
you don't wanna write it.
Isn't that, and sometimesthere's nothing you can do about
that.
I haven't ne, I haven't actuallyne done that myself, but I can
see how it can happen.
Madeleine (41:24):
Yeah.
That happened
Tina (41:25):
to me.
What happened to,
Madeleine (41:26):
yeah.
Yeah, it happened to me and Ithink I will fall back in love
with that manuscript, but Ithink like I got halfway through
and I fell out of love with it.
I, I think there was some issueswith it.
But I felt the passion justbleeding out of me.
Yeah.
You need
Tina (41:41):
to at least see the end of your, of that story and be
excited to get there.
Madeleine (41:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You
Tina (41:46):
know, it might take a little bit of practical thinking
and work to get there, but ifyou're not even looking at that
end bit and feeling excited forit, then yeah.
Yeah.
It's
Madeleine (41:54):
a strange one.
But then I think also if youare.
Uh, you, you, you, you hear theother voices of other characters
or other stories and they takeover always.
And it's when you get, uh,
Tina (42:07):
past the first exciting act, right?
Yes.
And then, then the next storystarts trying to pull you away.
I know it's hard.
And that's when you dump all theideas crazily.
Like it may not.
No.
And then you go back to your, tothat one, unless you prefer to
do the other one.
Madeleine (42:24):
I have a story.
I have a story idea for you,Tina.
Oh, okay.
Um, I, me to write that.
Okay.
So just imagine this.
Okay.
Magnetic island.
Mm.
There's a murder.
'cause all my stories alwaysstart with murder.
Mm.
Tina (42:37):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine (42:38):
And then islands are a good place for murder.
Yes.
And then a group of writers areall suspect.
They're on a writing retreat fora week, and they have to try and
solves the murder.
Jerome forced proximity.
I like that.
And one of them might be themurderer.
Tina (42:54):
Mm.
My God.
Well, Madeleine, we have.
Completely gone over time andcompletely off script again,
Madeleine (42:59):
but it has been joyful.
I'll let you get back to your,to your, I love your, I just
love your optimism.
When you sent me the, um, you'relike, oh, what should we talk
about today?
And you sent me like the drafttalking points and um, we have
discussed exactly zero of, oh noone I sent one outta six
recommendation.
Yeah.
One out six.
Mm-hmm.
(43:19):
So good.
Good on us.
Yep.
Oh, well.
Well, I hope everyone hasenjoyed our.
I won't say the S word.
So we don't insightful episodeexplicit, but our talking, um,
and it's been fun and we shoulddo this every Saturday night,
but next time you're not gonnabe in your pajamas and you'll
have a glass of wine.
Mm-hmm.
Let's do that, Tina, with aglass of wine, everybody.
(43:41):
That will be, that'll be fun.
Tina (43:42):
Yep.
Hey, and you know what though?
I think it should be a glass ofbubbles for us, because I'm
pretty sure it's going to belike our one, one year of the
book.
Steal podcast.
Madeleine (43:56):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
And we're up July.
We're up episode 36.
We've done 36 episodes and Ithink we're doing well.
That's really exciting.
Okay, so thank you to everybodyfor continuing to listen in
every week.
We really appreciate it and yourengagement and um, it's been so
great.
Tina (44:15):
And leave us a review, please, if that's okay.
Um, because it definitely does,uh, help get, uh, other people
to find our podcast.
And, you know, they could find,you know, these chats extremely
helpful for their writing.
Yes, please do.
Madeleine (44:29):
And I mean, Tina and I, and Natasha as well, we've.
Financially backed this podcastthe last year ourselves.
Um, we do it because we love it.
Um, we have learned so muchalong the way as well.
Um, and you know, it's reallyhelpful and I think the best
part is when we see thosereviews coming through.
Um, because we know all thattime and investment and money
(44:51):
that we're putting into it isworthwhile.
When we, that's where we knowthat people are enjoying this,
Tina (44:56):
and that's true.
Good fun.
Thank.
Great way to wrap.
Wrap it up.
Madeleine.
Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Madeleine (45:02):
It was good to chat.
Have yeah.
Enjoy your um, wait, what wereyou up to again?
My cross stitch.
Tina (45:12):
I'm gonna post a photo so everyone can enjoy your
progress.
My cross stitch.
Madeleine (45:16):
Enjoy your coloring by paint, by numbers in cross
stitch and tv.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (2) (45:25):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new S drop and to keep up
to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.