Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on memoir writing and sharing personal stories

Episode Transcript
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Tina Strachan (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring stories,the authors behind your favorite
books.
No matter what stage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a time.

Madeleine Cleary (00:29):
The book Deal podcast acknowledges the
traditional owners, the land andwaters, which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
I had the privilege of speakingto two incredible debut writers
of memoir Carly-Jay Metcalfe andChristine Newell.

(00:50):
Carly-Jay Metcalfe's DebutBreath, published by Uqp hit
shelves in March, 2024 to muchcritical acclaim winning the
Queensland Literary AwardsPeople's Choice Book of the Year
Award.
And Christine Newell, whorecently published her memoir,
five Seasons in Seoul in March,2025 with Affirm press after
being long listed for the 2024Hawkeye Publishing manuscript

(01:13):
development prize.
Carly and Christine arebeautiful storytellers, so I'll
let them tell you their tales.
And while their memoirs are verydifferent, I was struck by their
generosity and courage to sharenot just their memories of the
things happening around them,but also their inner thoughts
too.
It is a powerful thing torelease a memoir, allowing us as

(01:35):
readers to get a glimpse insidehow another experiences the
world.
These two incredible womencapture life in all its facets,
the grief, the trauma, but alsothe joy of the small and
brilliant moments.
Christine Newell and Carly-JayMetcalfe.

(01:55):
Welcome to the Book Dealpodcast.
Thank you so much.
Thanks Madeleine.
Great to have you both here.
We were just having such goodpre-chat podcast chats that I
just had to hit record becausewe were talking about the day
brew crew and what I realized,which is really interesting,
you've both released memoirs,um, both in March as well,

(02:16):
Carly.
Yours was first last year in2024, and Christine this year,
and this is our first debutcrew, 20 24, 20 25 crossover.
Harley, how was the experiencefor you having that support
group last year?
It was, or

Carly-Jay Metcalfe (02:34):
it

is such

a beautiful group of people.
Um, most of, I don't know ifthis is the same with you,
Christine, but most of the, uh,authors have written fiction, so
I think there were maybe.
65 or 70 people in the group,and I think five or six of us
had written memoir.

(02:55):
Um, so, but yeah, incrediblysupportive and just, and just
always propping each other upand rather hilarious, like lots
of hilarious conversations and,and also very honest, also very
honest about the whole process.
So yeah, it was fantastic.

Christine Newell (03:16):
Yeah, I think there's only one other.
Uh, author who has written amemoir in our group this year.
Am I right Madeleine?
Yeah, I'm not too sure.
It's hard to keep up,

isn't it?
We're just saying it's growingquickly, but it's great support.
We've, um, and Christine and Ihave, you know, become really
good friends out of, out ofthis, where we share the same
publisher, but being part of thesame group.
I think there's, writers justhave this, when you meet other
writers, you just feel thisinstant connection, feel.

Yeah, it's always so easy I find, and it's
so lovely to have a few of thedebut crew in Melbourne as well,
because we're all spread out andso then when you finally get the
chance to meet in real life,after all of the messaging back
and forth, it's, yeah, it's thebest feeling.
Yeah,

absolutely.
Yeah.
I, I, I developed a couple ofreally close, um, friendships
and one, uh, is Arianne Beon whowrote, because I'm Not myself,
you see, and I did an inconversation with her at Avid
Reader when she came up.
Um, so meeting her for the firsttime, but having just been

(04:21):
emailing and texting and therest of it for months and
months, it was just, it, it wasso exciting to see her.

Oh, it's so special, isn't it?
It's, um, yeah, I think, um,there is gonna be a 2026 day
boot crew as well.
So for anyone who's listening,who's getting their books
published next year, SophieStern, uh, an author, she has
set that group up so.
Please do reach out to Sophieand be part of this wonderful
community that we have.
Let's talk about books.
I think this is very exciting.

(04:48):
Um, Carly, I might start withyou as you were the first one to
be published in this group.
Uh, can you tell us a little bitabout your incredible
award-winning memoir?
Breath?
I guess

breath is about being born with a terminal
illness, in my case, cysticfibrosis.
Uh, and it covers my childhood,my double lung transplant when I
was 21, and all of the other I.
Non-medical adventures andmisadventures.
So I guess it's an explorationof life, death, sex, drugs, rock

(05:23):
and roll.
I think, um, the book is alittle, uh, undefinable.
It's not a medical memoir.
It's not a trauma or a cancermemoir.
It's not a misery memoir.
There's something in it foreveryone.
This is what I keep hearing.

Yeah, I, I completely agree.
Um, my husband and I, weactually listen to it in on an
audio format, um, on some roadtrips.
And, um, and I think for us, we,when you pick it up, you go, oh,
I expect that I'm gonna cry inthis book.
And you do, you absolutely docry.
So we're weeping as we're likedriving along the Hume Highway,
but, but what I didn't expect,and this is something you were

(06:00):
mentioning earlier before ourpre-chat.
How much we were laughing aswell.
And then we're also, when westart laughing about things, and
I'll put like a little triggerwarning here.
Um, CU cancer.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Especially in audio format, theway that it was delivered, these
lines, like, we couldn't stoplaughing and then I felt really

(06:20):
bad about laughing.

No.
What we discussing, I can make,I can make a joke out of.
Pretty much anything.
So laugh away.
Laugh away at my expense.

And I suppose, you know, if you're not
laughing, you're crying.
If you're not crying, you're,you have to laugh, right?

Exactly.
Yeah, that's right.
If you, if you don't laugh, thenyou are on the floor in the
fetal position, uh, never

wanting to come up again.
Exactly.
Exactly.
No, it's an absolutelyincredible debut and um, yeah,
and it's obviously took massivecritical acclaim, so
congratulations on that.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Um, so you actually said in whenyou are writing it that you
never expected that it would be,um, something that would be
cathartic.
'cause often they say writing amemoir, it's a very cathartic

(07:07):
thing, particularly if you'vegone through a lot of trauma
like you have.
Yeah.
But you also didn't expect it tobe so hard to write.
So have what drew you to writingthis memoir?

Oh, it's, it's good.
This is gonna sound verystrange, but I actually started
writing my first memoir when Iwas 11 years old.
Um, I've been through so muchalready that I had enough
material for a book, which is soabnormal when you really think
about it.
Uh, and I think, you know, I'vealways written, um, I still have

(07:39):
my first short story that Iwrote in HB pencil on Phil's cap
paper.
I think I was about eight.
Um, and I was fortunate in thatI could already read and write
before I started school.
So I can't really remember atime when I wasn't writing.
Um.
I wrote a lot in high schoolbecause I, I spent about a third

(08:00):
of my time in hospital duringhigh school.
I ended up doing some of my HSCexams, um, in hospital.
Um, and there were some prettyawful things happening around
me, like the deaths of friendswho also had cf.
I wrote a lot of really darkpoetry, which is so funny to
look back on now.

(08:20):
And I still have all of thosenotebooks.
Um, I, I was, I was obsessedwith Sylvia Plat and she's still
one of my

great loves.
So it sounds like it was a, abit of an escape too, reading
and writing.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
For sure.

Writing this

memoir was no easy task.
No, I can imagine.
Um, what, Christine, tell us abit about your memoir.
Five Seasons and so, and, andwas it, was it something that
was cathartic for you?
I.

Yeah, so look, five Seasons in Seoul is a
memoir about my experienceliving and performing in South
Korea.
Uh, it's an exploration ofKorean life, the food landscape,
and culture.
But it's also a, a very, adeeply personal story about my
battle with anxiety anddepression following the death
of my father after a, a, aprolonged illness.

(09:15):
And the ways in which immersingmyself in Korean culture helped
me.
To, to heal.

Mm.
And so was it cathartic for youthen to write?

Yeah, it really was.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, I had my momentswhen, you know, it is hard to
revisit those times in yourlife, especially when you have
hindsight.
So I'm obviously writing itquite a few years later with a
lot of hindsight.
So at times I, I felt frustratedwith myself at times.
I just felt.

(09:47):
Yeah.
You know, revisiting some ofthat trauma can be difficult.
Um, before I left for career, Iwas at a, at very much, at
probably the lowest point I'dever been in my life.
So revisiting that wasdifficult, but I also did find
it cathartic because it helpedme during the writing process, I
think I gained a greaterunderstanding of myself.

(10:09):
Mm.
And a greater understanding ofmy time.
In, in South Korea as well.
So it was actually a mostly areally beautiful thing for me.

Being an expat, I think too, um, it's,
it's a very formative time iffor people who have gone and
lived overseas.
It, it, um, not only opens upyour worldview and you get to
experience a different culture,you, you feel like you have
changed yourself.
But I.
And perhaps when you come home,things have stayed quite the
same and there's a bit of adisconnect, and then you start

(10:39):
questioning, well, where ishome?
Did you find that too?
Oh

look, absolutely.
Yes.
When I first went over it was ahuge period of transition and I
think, um, I.
You know what was slightlyunique about my experience is
that I wasn't over there toteach English.
And I think at the time a lot ofthe expat community were English
teachers over in South Korea.
I think it's shifting now, butthis was around 20 years ago

(11:05):
when we didn't have anywherenear the access to other
cultures that we do now throughNetflix and.
All sorts of things.
Um, so it was, I was very, Iwent over alone to work for a
Korean theater company, abilingual theater company.
But I was in a situation wheremost conversations happened in
Korean first, so English wasn't.

(11:29):
The first language in theworkplace.
So I very much lived, I wasfully immersed in Korean life
during my time there.
I didn't really have much to dowith an expat community at all,
so there wasn't, it was a hugetransition when I went over and
then You're completely right.
It was like when I came home, Ifelt in a way that same sense of
disconnect.

(11:49):
I felt when I first arrived.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, it's a very, veryformative time in, in so many
ways.
Um, and because it happenedduring a time when I was so
incredibly vulnerable as well,um, I think the impact was, was
so much greater on, on my life.

Yeah, no, absolutely.
And it's such a stunning, um,book debut novel, Christine.
You know, we've spoken at lengthabout this.
I just absolutely loved it.
So highly, highly recommend thatlisteners, um, read both our
book, both the books, um, thatCarle and Christine have.
But now I wanna talk a littlebit about where you start, uh,
with a M1.
Kylie, I might, um, start withyou, um, since you've been

(12:28):
drawing from, you know, uh,materials from since you're a
child, what, how, what, how doyou start?
You've, you've obviously got, soyou've got journals, you've got
the people around you tellingstories.
Um, what do you trust and how doyou start?

Yeah, that's interesting.
And, and I, what Christinementioned before about anxiety
and depression.
Um, when I did knuckle down toreally start writing this memoir
in 2018, I had a majordepressive episode and I was
thinking, is this, is this worthit?
Um, and I didn't know if it wasgoing to be, but I had to back

(13:07):
myself and, and it was, it wasworth it.
Like there was no way.
I couldn't not.
Finish it.
I.
No intention of coming that far,only to set it on fire.
So I turned up at my desk mostdays and just retraumatized
myself.
Not for fun, but I had to getthose stories down.

(13:31):
Uh, as for, um, yeah, the ideaof memory, like it's, it, it's,
it's.
An interesting question becausememory's so subjective, isn't
it?
Um, the material for the book, Ihad a blog many years ago when
everyone was blogging.
I retired my blog not long afterI started really not playing

(13:52):
down with the story.
So I had material I'd been ableto pull from that.
But other, I mean really otherthan that, I was totally reliant
on my memory and.
I think I have a bit of what'scalled total recall.
It's not a photographic memoryper se, but I remember events

(14:14):
from my childhood in and of, andadulthood in very vivid detail.
And people backed me up on mystory.
So that was kind of strangelyvalidating.
Um, and I didn't really s sitthrough my journals until
towards the end, and everythingwas as just.
Was just as I had remembered,and it's funny, my friends get a

(14:38):
bit freaked out because I canremember seemingly insignificant
details and they were like,they're like, how do you, how do
you remember that?
And it's, it's just, it's justthere.
It's very easily accessible forme.

I wonder if it's, it's, it might be similar
with Christine as well, whenyou're going through something
that is so unique.
And and frightening and anxietyinducing and you feel that your
threat response emerging, thatyour memory starts recalling
those types of things.
It could go the opposite aswell.
You could try and block thosethings, but it's amazing how

(15:14):
much detail you remember.
And Christine, you wereremembering things like the
meals you ate.
And this is all based off thingsthat happened 20 years ago and
you didn't have those diaries.

Yeah, you're right.
And I think my experience wasvery, very similar to what, uh,
Carly-Jay has just said.
I, I didn't keep journalseither.
Um, and I, I also feel like Ihave quite a good memory for
detail.
And again, I know that memorycan play tricks on you.
Um, but I think when somethingis so transformative, either.

(15:48):
In both ways, either if it'squite traumatic or if it's
something that's reallyincredibly joyous and something
that has been such a significantpart of your life.
I think it, it stays with us inso many different ways.
Um, and I did a similar thing.
I had my colleagues who couldback me up.
I have, um, a huge photo albumjust full of photos that I took

(16:11):
during my, my year in SouthKorea.
And I actually, it, it surprisesme how much I relied on those.
So I would.
Start with, with the memory thatI had and the way that I thought
things played out, but then Iwould go back and, you know, try
to back myself and look atphotos to make sure, um, with my
childhood, like I still have mybeautiful mom.

(16:32):
And, um, she was really greatat, at, at talking those things
through and me saying, look,this is how it felt to me.
Do you think that that's true?
Of the experience for you as anadult and is that how you
remember it?
So, um, and I mean, so much ofmemoir is about how, is through

(16:53):
the author's eyes, how theyexperience the world, how they
felt.
Um, but you know, there is thatline of, of wanting to back it
up and, and have it come from a,a place of truth.
So I think walking that line isreally important.
So I did a lot of research aswell, um, to, to back myself.

That, that's interesting you say that about
your mom, because I'm so closeto my mom, we're, we're almost
like the same person because sheessentially, you know, nursed me
for the first 21 years of mylife.
Um, and, and then yeah, we're,we're, we're incredibly close.
And I, I would say to her, howdo you remember it being?

(17:34):
And then I would say, okay,well, that's how I remember it
as well.
So, yeah.
Yeah, and photos.
Photos.
I've actually got photos of mytransplant surgery, so looking
back at those, obviously I was,I was sedated.
Um, but it's just fascinating tolook back at those and to also

(17:56):
see, uh, it was like a photodocumentary, so to see my
friends and family at differentstages of the night when I got
called up for the transplant.
So photos are so important.
Yeah.

Yeah.
Those little details in photostoo.
Like, I think when we look atphotos, we just see what's at
the, at the forefront.
But when you are trying toresearch and, and recall
memories, it's looking at allthose tiny little things in the
background.
Like even for me, street signsand what people were wearing and
all of that kind of thing.
It, it really brings it allback.

Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Um, so you've got all these,you've got photos, you've got
your family, you've got, um,some journals.
You've got your writing, yourmemories.
How, where do you start in termsof structure?
How do you put all thistogether?
And Carly, I might start withyou.
That was, I, that was

the main problem I had was I was like,
I've got 120,000 words, which Iknew was too long.
And I cut it too, I think.
80,000 or 70, 80,000.

That's a huge exercise, Carly, that's massive.
Cutting 40,000

words.
Yeah, I was just, I, I, I lookedat the manuscript and I thought,
if this isn't driving the storyforward, it goes, I'm ruthless.
So, which is, which is I guess agood thing, a good thing in
hindsight.
Um, but structure is what I havethe most difficulty with.
I didn't want it to be.

(19:29):
Chronological, like I was bornin 1976 and, but it, I mean, it
does, it, it starts with mebeing in the dying room at 21
knowing that I'm about to die,and then it sort of goes a

(19:49):
little bit, weaved it in and outof my childhood and then into
adulthood.
So I just, I didn't want it tobe.
This really boring,chronological story where, you
know, fact after factors laidout.
So I did have issues with thestructure, and this is where my
wonderful editor, Jack Wool andBlanchard from UQP came in and

(20:14):
saved the day.

It certainly, um, was not a boring story.
Carly, I was riveted from thatfirst opening scene of you in
the hospital.
No, you wanna die.
Um.
And obviously spoilers youdidn't, um, yes, spoiler alert
she lives, but, um, it, Ithought it was just a
beautifully structured thing,and even at the ending as well,

(20:37):
your reflections about, um,society and, and comments about
death and how we treat death.
I think it was, um, yeah,beautifully structured.
So that's why I was sointerested to know how you did
that.
Christine, what about you?
Did you find it natural to writea memoir?

Um.
In some ways I did, because Ithink it had been kind of
burning inside me this desire towrite this story, and it just
took some time for, you know, toget all my ducks in a row and be
able to give myself thepermission I needed to devote my
time and energy to such a bigtask.
Um, but I guess one thing that Ireally tried to focus on was

(21:15):
that I didn't.
I want it to be too heavy on thepersonal backstory.
And then at the same time, itwas really important for me to
place certain things aboutKorean culture and my time there
in historical and culturalcontext as well for the reader,
um, and also for, for accuracy.
So, um, for me, my biggestchallenge was about getting that

(21:37):
balance right.
I didn't want it to be suddenly,I didn't want it to suddenly
read like, you know, uh uh.
A historical kind of account ofthe Korean War, for example, or,
um, and then I didn't want it tobe too heavy on the backstory,
so for me it was just aboutgetting that balance right and
trying to then sustain that allthe way through.

(21:59):
I did do quite a few, um, memoirwriting workshops.
Before I started, or not longafter I started.
And I also have a great bookcalled Writing True Stories by
Patti Miller, who is a a, anAustralian memoirist.
And that was very much my, mybible during that time.
So I really turned to that a lotto help me stay out of those,
those traps.

(22:20):
You know, I, I also didn't wantit to just be kind of a boring
chronological.
Um, account.
So I also do a lot on Koreanculture and I think, you know,
the different, um, patterns ofthe year and the cycles there to
help get me out of that kind of,okay, so today I did this and
then another month passes andthen this happened.

(22:40):
Um, and I think it's also aboutdeciding what's important, uh,
you know, with, with that kindof to avoid all of that excess
and that excess word count.
'cause I was the same.
I had to cut.
A little bit, not, not a hugeamount, but um, yeah, it's just
about, I think looking reallydeep into the story and deciding

(23:00):
what is important, what is itabout this particular event that
I want to convey.
I.

The other thing, Christine, consideration
for you as you're writing abouta culture that is not your own
as well, uh, Korean culture, howdid you, and I think you, you do
it really beautifully.
It's, um, you know, it's there,there's a risk that you could be
critiqued for, um, you know,using appropriation of culture
for your novel, but I, I thinkit was beautifully done.

(23:29):
What considerations and thought

did you put into that?
Look, it was a hugeresponsibility.
I very much felt the weight ofthat from the word go.
Um, it was so important to mewhen I made the decision to do
this that I portrayed Koreanculture res both respectfully
and accurately.
Um, but then you've also gotyour own personal experience to
balance in there.

(23:51):
And memoir, as I said before, itcomes from, from the author's
experience of how, how theyexperience this world.
So I think.
As I went on, the, the way Iapproached it was to start with
my own experience, to start withwhat happened and how I felt,
how it felt to me, and then goand back that experience with

(24:15):
research and also place it inthat historical and cultural
context to give it a a, abroader meaning, and also to
make sure.
That I was explaining it in thebest possible way that I could.
So I did do an awful lot ofresearch, um, even if a, a, a
lot of it I already knew to betrue, even if it was something

(24:37):
that my colleague said to meabout Korean culture and I
should.
Behave in this way.
I then went back and researchedthat for my own understanding
and so that I knew how I couldbest explain that to the reader.
So, um, yeah, look, hopefully Idid that.
I was very nervous about, um,yeah, being accused of, of.

(25:01):
Of not representing Koreanculture, um, accurately.
But um, yeah, all I know is thatI did a lot, a lot of research
and I, I backed myself everystep of the way.
And I just think that's soimportant.
If you can get to the end andknow that you came from a place
of respect and love, which.
Is very much what motivated meto write this book.

(25:22):
Um, and I think that's anotherthing I learned in those writing
workshops is to, when you'rewriting a memoir, is to question
your motivation and not justyour motivation for writing the
book, but your motivation forwriting a particular scene.
And I think that's veryimportant when you are also
involving other people becauseyour story is going to implicate
other people and you aresharing, you are sharing their

(25:45):
life.
As well.
So I think if you can questionyour motivation and you know
that it's coming from a, a, a, agood place and a place of
respect and love, then I thinkthat puts you on a good path to
start off with.

So many.
I have so many questions.
But to start, let's, let's justgo back to, um, now talking
about, um, the process topublication.
We are the book deal podcast.
We're very interested in bookdeals and how you get them.
And then I wanna talk aboutreception to that and people who
find out that you're writingmemoir, people who find out
you're publishing it, people whomight feature in the story.

(26:17):
So, Carly, I might start withyou.
You mentioned your lovely editorat UQP.
Could you talk a little bitabout your process to getting
your book deal?
What helped you to secure thatand what your experience was?

Yeah, I.
I was doing post-grad study atthe University of Queensland and
my supervisor said I shouldapply for the UQP writing
mentorship, um, which I wasn'tgoing to do because I didn't
really think I had a chance.
Uh, but to my great surprise anddelight, I won and.

(26:51):
After a couple of mentoringsessions with my now publisher,
the fabulous Madonna Duffy, Iwas offered a publishing
contract four months later.
Um, it, it all happened veryquickly.
Wow.
I was offered book, yeah.
I was offered the book deal inMarch, 2023 and the book was
printed by December, so it was,that's turn whiplash.

(27:19):
But it was exhilarating and itmade me feel very alive.
Um, and I loved every moment ofthe publishing process.
I just loved it.
Mm.

And Christine.
I'm the same.
I loved every, every step of it.
I mean, you have moments whereit's stressful and you are
racing to meet a deadline, butoverall it's just such a, it's
such a privilege to have abeautiful team of creative
like-minded people who are alldedicated to your project.
I mean, how often does thathappen?
You know, that you have a teamdedicated to making your project

(27:52):
and your very personal story thebest it can possibly be.
So I think for me.
I was kind of just plotting awayin the background and I had
intentions of pursuingpublication, so I was.
Just trying to educate myself asmuch as I could, attending
workshops, listening to, topodcasts like this.
I wish this podcast was aroundbecause it would've been great.

(28:15):
Um, and I initially, I think oneof the turning points for me was
that I, in, I attended a.
A workshop where I was given thechance to practice pitching my
book to a publisher.
And it really was just supposedto be a practice pitch.
You didn't have to have afinished manuscript.
And, and I certainly didn't.
Um, but at that time, thepublisher that I was.

(28:37):
Uh, practicing two for feedbackactually requested my manuscript
so that it was just that little,that moment that said, okay, I'm
not crazy for doing this.
You know?
What was the workshop Christinefor?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
It was actually, I mean, it wasmore than a workshop.
It was a fantastic event throughthe emerging writers festival

(28:57):
called Inside the PublishingHouse, where they basically give
you like a.
A backstage tour, that's mytheater talk coming out, but a
backstage tour behind the scenesof a publishing house and, and
everything that each departmentdoes.
And it was absolutelyfascinating.
And then part of that is thatyou do attend a, a workshop on,

(29:18):
uh, on how to pitch.
Your book, and then you are justgiven an option.
It's, it's not part of it.
Like you can decline, but at theend you can just book in for a
five minute chance to basicallyjust put into practice what
you've learned.
Um, so, and why not, why wouldyou decline it as well?
Not,
I know, I mean.

(29:38):
You know, it was, it was perfect.
Like I was madly taking notesthrough the whole thing and then
I had a little bit of time tokind of rework what I already
had based on what I'd learned inthat, in that short amount of
time.
And yeah, what I mean, what ifyou got to lose?
Um, but it's interesting though,'cause it was a learning point,
is that a practice pitch isn'tnecessarily just a practice

(29:59):
pitch.
So I think that's also somethingto remember.
'cause then I felt, even thoughthe publisher didn't pressure
me, I felt an.
Awful amount of pressure to getthat manuscript finished.
Um, and so you pitched and you,they requested it and you hadn't
finished your manuscript yet, isthat right?
Or hadn't?
Yeah, that's correct.
I hadn't finished it because itwasn't a requirement.

(30:21):
Like with the Australian Societyof Authors Speed Dating, you
must have a finished manuscript,but this is more of an
educational.
Setting.
Um, so yeah, it wasn't arequirement and I didn't have a
finished manuscript, but it wasjust Did you feel the pressure
when they said, yeah.
Would love to see it?
It was insane, yes.
And you know, in some ways itserved me well.

(30:42):
In other ways it didn't.
So what it did do was.
I absolutely 100% committed togetting that manuscript
finished.
So, not everything else, justthe manuscript was my priority,
which I hadn't really givenmyself complete permission to
do.
But I think knowing that someonewas interested and knowing that,
you know, perhaps this idea didhave something going for it, um,

(31:04):
yeah, just changed my entireapproach.
Um, so I spent the, you know,the summer that followed, that
working incredibly hard on themanuscript and.
I sent it off and at the time Ithought it was ready, like I had
worked very hard.
Um, I put pressure on myself,but I didn't really, I hadn't
kind of just rushed it and gone,okay, I just need to get this

(31:24):
out.
Um, but what I didn't have wasdistance from the manuscript,
and I think that was one of thebiggest things I learned through
that journey.
So I got it done.
I sent it off, I thought it wasready, and then.
It was literally just a fewweeks later, after having a
little bit of a break from itand going back to it, I just
went,

(31:45):
oh,
I'm not sure that it was ready, because all
of a sudden, once the pressurewas off, I just had all these
ideas of how I could expand itand make it better.
And, and as it turns out, youknow, that opportunity, it
didn't lead to anything.
Um, but that doesn't mean itwasn't worthwhile.
Um, so from that point, I then.
Continued to work on themanuscript for, uh, another 12

(32:08):
months.
I sent it off for a manuscriptappraisal.
Um, and then when, where did youdo that?
So where did you get itappraised?
Yeah.
I actually went to Patty Miller.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because she specializes inmemoir and I just felt like that
was the best.
Place for me.
I'd done some workshops withher.
I'd had a little kind of, sheoffers a great service, which is

(32:29):
just like an online kind ofconsultation where you could, I
could pay by the hour becauseobviously as a, as a writer and
someone who's always worked inthe arts as well, um, as a
theater performer, um, you know,the budget is tight.
Mm-hmm.
We don't.
Money to throw at these things.
Um, and I just felt that whatPatty Miller offered was
something that was accessible.

(32:50):
Um, so I had a, like a one hourconsultation initially just to
kind of sound her out.
And that was in the very earlystages.
And then when I knew that themanuscript appraisal was the way
to go, I, I went back to her.
Um, and it was actually one ofher.
Um, partners that, that did the,the appraisal,'cause she was
busy writing another book.
Um, and his name was AnthonyReer.

(33:11):
He's actually, I think he'sactually Patty Miller's husband,
but he's also her professionalpartner and he was just
wonderful.
Um, he just showed me thingsthat I couldn't see myself
because I was too close to it.
Mm-hmm.
But also told, was very, uh,forthcoming about what I'd done
well.
So it gave me so muchconfidence, but it also showed

(33:32):
me where.
I could absolutely improve thismanuscript.
And from there I just devotedeverything I had to it.
And it was eventually theliterary speed dating.
Um, I felt like the verbalpitching worked quite well for
me because I do have aperforming background and I
quite enjoyed it.
So, um, it was the AustralianSociety of Authors Literary

(33:54):
Speed Dating that eventually ledto my publication deal with
Affirm Press and, and RubyAshby, or so I pitched to Ruby
at the a SA and um, even thatdidn't happen straight away,
but, but it did happen so.

What a story, Christine, and that shows as
well that you know, this is aseries of years.
First time when you, when Ipublish a request, your
manuscript, it's so exciting.
Doesn't necessarily mean thoughthat they're gonna take it on.
It's really tough.
But you've gone back, you'vedone the work, you've made it
right.
Carly, I'm really interestedWhen, when did it start feeling
real to you?
Was it when you signed the bookdeal or was it when you saw it

(34:31):
on the shelf?
Or was it when you won theQueensland literary?
Award.
Like where, when did it feelreal?
Um,

it, I think it was when, uh, I remember when
I picked up my first, like when,well, when my first box of books
arrived and I, instead of doingthe, uh, traditional unboxing.
Oh, yes.
Um, yeah.

(34:59):
I actually, as you would knowfrom reading my memoir, my
parents are just bothextraordinary people and so is
my sister.
And my sister, she knew that Ihad the box of books, so she was
like screaming madly.
Um, but she wrapped them up, momand dad, and they had no idea.
Um, so I took a video of themunboxing it because it was.

(35:25):
Just as much their story asmine.
Right.
Um, and I will never forget thelook on their faces.
Uh, it was just, it madeeverything, all of the pain, all
of the, the times I was, youknow, on the floor in tears.
It, it made it all worth it.
And yeah, it was just, it was,

yeah.
Something I'll never forget.
And this is the thing about, I'mlike tearing up here.
Just, that's just, I can justimagine like the, the, your
parents just sound like absolutewonderful people, so it's what a
moment for them.
But writing books, it's not justabout us, is it?
It's, it's about all the peoplearound us and the impact that
our words have on others.

(36:09):
It's, it's, and particularlywhen it's about memoir and it's
about them too.
It's their, it's your story.
It's also their story.
What was their reaction when youfirst told them about.
The book and the deal and thatit was,

well, I mean, I, I've always written, so
they, they've always known thatI've been sort of working away
quietly, um, on writing mystories down.
I didn't like to say I waswriting a memoir.
I felt like a very old white,politic male politicians saying,
I'm writing my memoir.

(36:43):
Um, so I said, I, when peopleasked, I would just say, I'm
just writing my stories down,but.
Then I was like, okay, justaccept the word Carly.
Just accept it.
So I did.
Um, and yeah, so I, yeah.
Surprised them on the day that Iwas offered the book deal.
And they were just, yeah, myparents and my sister were just

(37:07):
absolutely so wrapped, sochuffed.
Yeah.
We celebrated.

Christine, you're nodding.

Yeah, look, I think it was, you know, it's
similar for me in that, um,because I was writing, I mean,
my book is a travel memoir, um,and a lot of it is about South
Korea and South Korean culture.
But also a very big part of itwas my personal journey with,
with my father's illness.
And that started when I wasfive.
So, you know, I was very muchtelling his story.

(37:38):
His story and um, you know, he'sobviously no longer, no longer
with us.
Um, so I was really relying onmy mom to be, I guess, my, my
compass with that.
Um, and she was just such ahuge, a huge part of the entire
journey.
She knew that I was, that I waswriting a memoir, although I did
also struggle with that word.
Um, it's, yeah, reallyinteresting.

(38:01):
There's just something about itto actually tell someone that,
oh, well, I'm writing a memoir.
About my own life.
Just I'm gonna be really, I'mgonna be

really honest, I felt like a total
blanker saying I'm writing amemoir.
I

implying that I am just so interesting.
Yes.
Everybody would hear about mylife and it just, yeah, I, I'm,
I'm pleased that you kind ofsaid that, Kelly, because I
just, yeah, I really struggledtoo.
Um, but look, she did, my momdid know and a few close friends
knew.
And then for the rest.
I played it down very much.

(38:36):
Oh, I'm just, just writing alittle book, just writing a bit
about my time in South Korea andall of that.
So I think, look, the moment itfelt real for me was when I got
my publication date.
Because you kind of start thejourney and you don't have that,
and you've got that big kind ofhurdle of the first big
structural edit, and there'ssomething in your mind that
still thinks, oh, it's a bit, Ifelt like it was a bit of a

(38:58):
test.
It's not that my publisher mademe feel that way, but that
structural edit.
It is a test because can you,you know, can you come up with
the goods?
That's the biggest.
Thing that you face, I think isthat structural edit and whether
or not you can get through that.
Um, and or at least that's howit felt to me.
So getting through thestructural edit and then getting
my publication date, that's whenit really started to feel real.

(39:22):
Of course, the offer was, I.
Insanely exciting, and I was soexcited when I told my mom she
could not understand what I wassaying, and then I was so
frustrated that she wasn'treacting with, you know, the
amount of excitement that Ithought she would, but she just
had no idea what I was blabbingabout.
I was half laughing, halfcrying, you know, extremely

(39:43):
hysterical.
And she was just like, I, I'm,I'm really lost here.
Get out.
So, you know, telling her was anincredible moment.
But then you get into the hardwork and the, the business side
of things and then theexcitement fades into the
background and you just wanna dothe best possible possible job
you can.
Um, and then publication date,and then obviously yes, the

(40:05):
delivery was so exciting and,you know, giving that book to my
mom for the first time and herseeing that I had dedicated it
to her and the memory of my dad.
Um, you know, I really wantedthe book to be a tribute to them
as well and everything that theyhad gone through and how hard
they had fought in their lives.
So that was a very specialmoment for her to be able to

(40:25):
hold it and, and see that,

that, that, that part of our story sounds
very similar.
Kristin.
Yeah, I
dedicated the book to my parents and my
sister for carrying me for allof these years.

Yeah.
That's so beautiful.
Yes.
And, and I feel that too.
I mean, obviously our storiesare completely different, but
there is, there is thatunderlying

Yeah.

It's really beautiful.
Yeah,

it's actually, I just tangent.
Um, it's interesting becauselike, I was so excited.
I'm a very calm person.
Um, but.
My sister said she didn't wannaread the book until the actual
book was in her hands.
So, um, I, I wasn't part of anywriter's groups or anything like

(41:13):
that.
Um, I wasn't getting anyfeedback, so it was this
solitary exercise of sittingdown.
I, I think writing for me is.
Sitting down at my desk in myunderwear, um, with a, with,
with a cup of coffee and manycups of coffee and just, and
just riding.

(41:33):
And it's just, it's a verysolitary, uh.
Exercise and existence, but thatactually suits me quite well.

Yes, actually I also feel the same.
I didn't, I wasn't part of awriter's group.
Um, no one read the manuscriptapart from Anthony Reader when I
got the manuscript appraisal.
And apart from, I assume, youknow, the first publisher that I
sent it to, no one else had readit.
Um, and my mom didn't read ituntil after it was published and
on the shelf.
Um,

so let's talk about what happens then when it
does come out and people arestarting to read it,
particularly those who you mightbe writing about in your book.
Um, I.
Carly, your book has received anamazing, um, reception.
Um, I think people have, um, orthe critics have critically
claimed it.
Um, you've won awards for it.

(42:25):
Um, I'm, I'm sure as well you'vealso probably touched the hearts
and minds of lots of readers,and you've probably received
lots and lots of feedback.
How's, how's that been for you?

It's.
It's actually been reallybeautiful.
Um, I think like as an authorand particularly a memoirist, I
think setting boundaries isreally important.
But I've been really fortunate.
Every message I've received fromreaders has been so genuinely

(42:55):
kind and lovely, but I.
When you go into this, you don'tknow.
You have no idea what, what toexpect.
Uh, when you put your story outthere.
And this is interesting, likelast year I went on sabbatical
from social media and made avery deliberate, uh, choice to

(43:18):
stop sharing details about mypersonal life.
Like I've written this book.
I already felt like I'verevealed enough about myself,
maybe a bit too much, and Iwanted to keep some parts of my
life private just for me.
So now I only post thingsrelated to the book.
And having done that.

(43:40):
I feel like I've reclaimed adeeper sense of privacy and, and
a deep sense of who I am.
And I don't get on Instagram andscroll anymore, and I, I find
myself being very present.
Um, instead of thinking about,you know, taking a photo.
I'm just enjoying the moment andmy life has radically changed

(44:03):
for the better.
And you know what?
So has my writing.
Mm.

Oh, I love this.
Um, this is very top topical forme at the moment because I do
feel like social media, it issuch a drain.
They always say it's reallyimportant for us as authors to
maintain it, but it is such atime suck, isn't it?
And particularly, I think as amemoir, I was putting your story
out there, then people probablyfeel the need that they wanna,
they feel like they know you aswell, so they're probably

(44:28):
reaching out with goodintentions.
But that's key, isn't it?
As a, as a author and someonewho wants to maintain that
privacy.

Yeah, I feel like I was worried that I would
put my story out there and,because I have heard a few
horror stories about memoirs,um, who get stalked and what
have you, but putting my storyout there, I thought because of,

(44:55):
because it's out there, arepeople going to think they can
ask me anything they want, um,like I kind of belong to them.
Mm.
Uh, because my story is out in the world.
Uh, but that didn't happen.
Everyone's been just sobeautiful.

Mm.
What about you, Christine?
I mean, your book's only beenout for a couple of months, but,
uh, have you found social media,the contact, has that been
interesting for you?

Yeah, look again, everything has been
really positive up to thispoint, which I'm really grateful
for.
Um, my biggest, I guess, concernI.
Was my colleagues, um, becausethey played a very big part in
my story.
I worked for a very tight knitsmall theater company, um, and

(45:47):
in particular my Koreancolleagues.
Um, and I guess how theyperceived the book and how they
received the book, and mostimportantly, how they received
the way that I portrayed theirculture.
So that was my biggest concernand I was the, the most nervous
about them reading it.
And I, when I.
Received a, a message from mysenior colleague, Yohi, who was

(46:11):
the senior member of the theatercompany, and got this beautiful
kind of stamp of approval fromher.
And she actually, after she readit, she actually wrote this
beautiful long review, um, onher blog.
And she's, she's a verytalented.
Performer, um, cross-culturaltheater practitioner, arts

(46:32):
advocate.
She's someone that I greatlyrespect and her opinion means a
lot to me, but obviously it waseven more important in this
context.
Um, and she wrote this beautifulreview.
I.
Of the book and how she had feltabout how she had received it,
and I just burst into tears.
I actually didn't realize atthat point how, how nervous I

(46:53):
was, not because I thought shewould ever criticize me or, or
do anything nasty, but justbecause I, I wanted to know that
I have.
Done her, done them justice,that I've done Korean culture
justice, that I have done mycolleagues justice and, and also
that I've done my familyjustice.
So yeah, I just absolutely burstinto tears when I read that

(47:14):
review and it was a massiveturning point.
I felt just this, I felt so muchlighter.
I didn't realize how much I washanging onto that until it
happened, and I felt like if Ihad her approval then the rest.
Everything else was okay.
Um, so that was huge.
And yeah, look, I've had somereally lovely messages on social

(47:35):
media.
I've had people reach out, whichI love because for me, you know,
it's about connection and I.
For me when I've reallystruggled, memoir is something
that I've always turned to, um,reading about other people's
journeys and if people who havebeen through similar battles,
similar mental health strugglesand how they've kind of come out
the other side has always helpedme greatly.

(47:58):
So I.
I really wanted to contribute tothat space and I'm, I'm really
honored and really thrilled whenpeople reach out.
Um, and yeah, it's all beenreally lovely and positive so
far.
Um, and I think it's just ifsomeone does cross that line, I
did have one email that I justwasn't too sure about, so I just
tried to focus on the positiveand focus on, you know, what I

(48:21):
could give back.
And, um, just sent backsomething, uh, positive and
polite and grateful that they'veengaged.
And then I just left, left therest.

I think

kindness.
Kindness is key.
Yeah.
I think it's more just that itwas just infringing slightly on,
on my personal space and Ithought, okay, well I just
don't, I just won't engage withthat.
There's plenty here that I canwork with and I'm so grateful
that this person has read mybook and loved it.
And you know, for, for anyone tojump on social media or jump on

(48:55):
an email and take the trouble totell you that they've, that your
book has resonated or your storyhas resonated with them, I think
is a really beautiful thing.
But it is, you know, it is alsoabout maintaining those
boundaries.
Yeah.

Absolutely, you have to also protect
yourself.
But it's so lovely to hear thepositive reception to both your
books, and I'm not at allsurprised we have to wrap this
up, which I'm really, really sadabout.
But before we do, um, Carly, youare a Chapters for Change
Ambassador, I believe?
Yes.
And there's a readathonhappening.

Yes.
The ONG for Chapters Change isin July, and Chapters for Change
is an amazing not-for-profitorganization who raised money to
help literacy four children,, inCambodia.
So it's a, it's a fantasticinitiative and I'm really proud
and honored to be part of that.

Amazing.
So we'll put up in our shownotes, um, where you can
participate in the Julyreadathon.
That sounds like an amazinginitiative, and so we really
encourage everyone to, um, geton board with that.
Um, before we do finish, twoquick questions for you both.
Um, recommendation for a debutnovel.
Doesn't have to be a memoir, butit can be Christine.

Oh, um, yes, I'd like to recommend actually,
um, um, I will recommend amemoir'cause I think, you know,
I'll just stay, stay on onetheme.
Um, and it's called Bloomer.
It's by a, um, an author calledCarol Lefevre.
I hope I've pronounced thatcorrectly.
Um, and it's called Bloomer andit's a really beautiful, I've
recently started reading it, Ihaven't finished yet, but it's a

(50:31):
really beautiful reflection onaging and I think it's another
really important.
Topic, um, that tends to beshied away from.
I'm seeing

this everywhere actually at the
moment.

Yeah, well look, I had the privilege of
being on a panel with Carol atthe Manly Writers Festival, and
I just found her conversationand everything that she
contributed.
So enlightening and soimportant.
So valid and, and just sobeautiful.
And when I started reading it,it just felt like a, a, a really
big warm hug.
So I, I'm gonna recommendbloomer.

(51:02):
Yeah,

that's what we need in the world.
Lots of warm hugs, I thinkHarley.
I,

I dunno if you experienced this, Christine,
but I couldn't read for most oflast year, um, which sounds so
antithetical to, you know, as awriter, but it was like my mind
just had too many tabs open.
But the first novel, yeah, thefirst novel I read was Catherine
Wheel by Liz Evans.

(51:30):
It's a psychological thriller,but the writing is so beautiful
and it's also really taught, andLiz has this gift of being able
to layer a story like every timeyou think you've got it, she
adds another thread, and thenshe just calls more together, so
masterfully, and she alsohappens to be an incredibly

(51:53):
beautiful person.

Two great recommendations there.
We'll also include those in ourshow notes.
And to finish up, um, we alwaysask our guests to provide one
last top tip and you've alreadyboth given so many.
But, um, we will get you tofinish off on that.
So I'll start with Christine.

Look, I'll go back to, uh, the advice that I
was given in a memoir writingworkshop, which was your
motivation.
'cause I think it's just animportant check in a way to
check in with yourself also tomake sure that you're not going
off track with your story.
And also perhaps not get lettingany personal, uh, feelings get
too out of hand too.
So it's just a great littlecheck-in.

(52:35):
And I used that all the waythrough, through the process.

That's a great one.
Yes.
Understanding why you're writingit and what the purpose of that
particular word, paragraphchapter is really important.
Yeah, for sure.
Carly, can I sheet and givethree really quickly?
Absolutely.
I will be listening to, I'm veryhere for your three topics,
Carly.

The first is to read voluminously.
The second is to get the mostruthless feedback you can get,
because that's the only way youcan hone.
Or any craft and to look afteryour body, your eyesight, your
neck, your back, like I'm only acouple of years away from 50 and
I feel 95.

(53:21):
Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah,

that is.
I actually just had a remedialmassage yesterday and the, the
masseuse,'cause I've gotterrible lower back pain.
I'm 34 and my back pain the lastyear has just gotten terrible
and she kept totting and she waslike my.

We just productive, isn't it?
Like it doesn't help you relaxif someone is, is touching or
saying, oh, so tight.
I get that all the time.
You're so tight and it's like,yeah, thanks.
It's like why are your musclesclicking like this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But finding a healthy way towork, I think that's so
important.
Yeah.

Yes.
Great.
Yeah.
Into our underwear.
Yes.
In your underwear.
It's a bit cold down south to,to work in our underwear though.
I think it's a bit warmer

being in Queensland.
Um, I guess I have that luxury.

Well, thank you so much Carly and Christine.
It's just been a great chat.
I really appreciate it much forhaving you,
Madeleine.
Thanks Madeleine.
Thank you for listening to theBook Deal podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new S drop and to keep up
to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.

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Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on memoir writing and sharing personal stories

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