Behind the scenes and the reality of being a (newly) published author - with Tina Strachan, Madeleine Cleary, and Natasha Rai.
Tina and Madeleine alongside our Takeover star, Natasha Rai, chat about their experiences as (newly) published authors. They each have prepared three surprise questions to ask each other, and of course Tina has prepared a spreadsheet to organise the asking of questions.
They discuss various aspects of the publishing journey, including the thrill of seeing their books on shelves, managing reviews on Goodreads, the challenges and joys of social media publicity, and their writing processes. The trio also delves into how publishing has impacted their day jobs and the value of having an agent. This episode is filled with valuable insights, playful banter, and practical tips for aspiring authors.
Nanna Croccles (1 May 2025, Scholastic Australia) by Susan Joy-Lu is this week's Debut in the Spotlight.
00:00 Introduction to The Book Deal Podcast
00:45 Meet the Hosts and Special Guests
01:38 First Time as Published Authors
02:53 Bookshop Encounters and Author Experiences
08:53 Balancing Day Jobs and Writing Careers
13:00 The Role of Literary Agents
16:16 Navigating Reviews and Reader Feedback
19:39 Highs and Lows of Being a Published Author
24:15 Looking Forward to Book Two
24:52 Excitement and Anxieties of Promoting a Book
26:00 The Journey of Writing and Publishing Book Two
28:13 Balancing Writing with Life and Expectations
34:56 Introducing Nana Crackles: A Delightful Debut
36:45 Reflecting on the Book Release Experience
43:12 Challenges and Joys of Publicity
49:34 Top Tips for Writers
Follow The Book Deal podcast on Instagram The Book Deal podcast (@the_book_deal_podcast) • Instagram photos and videos
You can find out more about Tina and Madeleine and follow their journeys here:
Tina Strachan (@td_strachan) • Instagram photos and videos
Tina Strachan children's book author
Madeleine Cleary (@madeleineclearywrites) • Instagram photos and videos
Madeleine Cleary | Author
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Madeleine Cleary (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring stories,the authors behind your favorite
books.
No matter what sage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a time.
(00:29):
The Book Deal Podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners of the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Tina Strachan (00:43):
Welcome everybody to the Book Deal podcast.
We have a really excitingepisode for you today because
it's not just me.
My name's Tina Strachan, notjust me today, but I'm also
joined by Madeleine Cleary.
Hello everybody.
And Natasha Rai.
Hello.
It's so good to be here.
Oh, all three of us today.
Um, this is the first time we,all three of us have actually
(01:03):
been, um, on the same podtogether, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
I'd like to say the same roomtogether, but like can't.
We're actually in threedifferent states, so.
Madeleine Cleary (01:13):
We've all met each other separately, haven't
we?
Yeah, we just, yeah, we have.
Yeah, we had it together.
Together, which is so sad.
We're gonna have to do that.
We can, that could be a taxdeductible thing.
I think a trip, the three of us.
Tina Strachan (01:26):
End of
Madeleine Cleary (01:26):
your
Tina Strachan (01:26):
Christmas party.
End of your work Christmasparty.
Yeah, let's do it.
Oh, that'd be so fun.
Oh, well, so in the, um, it'salso really exciting too.
Another first is that this isthe first time that we've all
come together as publishedauthors.
Mm.
Yes.
So I think the last time, lasttime I, I spoke to you,
(01:48):
Madeleine,
Madeleine Cleary (01:49):
you were yet to release.
That's right.
So it was only a few days out, Ithink, wasn't it?
And I'd seen it at Sorento, butnot officially on a bookshelf,
which is the important part Ithink it's seeing in a
bookstore.
Did you guys find, I'm curious,I know we've got, we've got so
many fun things to talk aboutthis episode, but just quickly,
every time you see your book ina bookshop, you get the same
(02:10):
thrill and rush.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Do you think it'll ever go away?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (02:21):
How can it don't, it's just like, oh my
God, there.
It's, that's right.
Yes.
That's, that's the tone, isn'tit?
Oh my God, there, it's, it'severy single time.
Tina Strachan (02:29):
Exactly.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (02:29):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (02:29):
Exactly.
And a little bit of unbelievablestill, like, it still feels to
me like a little bit like, oh,it's not gonna be there.
It's not gonna be on the shelf.
And there it is.
Madeleine Cleary (02:37):
Yes.
And you always, you always go inwith low expectations, don't
you?
Totally.
It's not gonna be you.
There might be one copy andlook, there might not even be
one copy and that's fine.
And you just tell yourself, youprotect yourself in your head.
Natasha Rai (02:50):
Um, that happened to me, so on.
So I'm just gonna ask on that.
Do either of you do the creepything where you just kind of
hang around and see if anyone'sgonna buy it?
And then just stare at people.
Mm-hmm.
Does anyone else do that or isthat just I have done that.
Okay.
I sort of just
Tina Strachan (03:02):
stand in the aisle and be like, oh, look,
here's Yep.
Let's see if they're gonna runtheir eyes over it.
Madeleine Cleary (03:08):
Okay.
So question.
If you saw someone picking upyour book in a bookshop and
looking at the back cover, wouldyou approach them?
Oh,
Tina Strachan (03:16):
I would go up to 'em and say.
Hi, my name's Madeleine Clearyand my friend Tina wrote this
book.
Madeleine Cleary (03:23):
Um, I Ask because because you've done that
before for me.
So I have, and I did it formyself as well.
It did happen to you did.
Interesting.
Okay.
Did happen.
Tell Telltale.
So just Yeah, quickly.
So I was at my local Dimmick,um, and I, I was just like
walking past and then a guy waslooking at it'cause it was on
like the top 10, which is soexciting.
(03:45):
He was looking at it and it waslike the day before Mother's
Day.
And so Pat was with me, myhusband, and he's like, don't do
it.
Edlin, don't do it.
I'm like, I'm gonna do it, I'mgonna do it.
So I went up to him, I'm like,oh hi.
That's actually a really goodbook.
Like I can really recommend it.
And he's like, oh, really?
He's like, yeah, I'm looking fora present for my wife.
I'm like, oh, she would love it.
Like it's historical.
It's gonna murder mystery.
(04:06):
It's a romance.
He's like, oh, that soundsreally cool.
Um.
I'm like, and for fulldisclosure, I'm also the author.
So, um, I thought I'm a bitbiased, but I promise that
she'll enjoy it.
And he is like, oh, well I'mgonna have to buy this then, and
would you sign it?
I'm like, yeah, absolutely.
So did you sign it and say, yourhusband is awesome, Natasha,
like, mouth is just open.
Natasha Rai (04:26):
I, I'm like, you are so cool.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:32):
Me
Madeleine Cleary (04:32):
though, like,
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:32):
I,
Madeleine Cleary (04:32):
you know, I.
Natasha Rai (04:36):
I just adopted that persona.
I know, but it's just that coolcasual way that you're like, oh
yeah.
This is amazing book.
By the way, I'm the author.
I would be like, like a weirdcreep, like behind someone like
looking over their shouldergoing,
BA it, ba it
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:52):
your, your voice just went then.
Yeah.
Your voice just went.
It is'cause I whispered.
Tina Strachan (04:56):
I was just whispering.
You're whispering on, oh, mymark's all the way over here.
Actually, no.
You're gonna have to let know.
Maybe no one's.
Even heard anything that I'vesaid this whole time.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (05:06):
Our podcast is just.
Tina Strachan (05:10):
Let me know if not, and I'll try and like
overdub my everything.
Um, no, I'll just whisperinglike Tash standing behind the,
the shelves going
Susan Joy-Lu (05:17):
and I'm slow to fly.
I flight, buy it
Tina Strachan (05:22):
and he's like,
Natasha Rai (05:23):
this a weird reason to buy this.
An onslaught of light.
I would actually be running outof the shop if I heard someone
whispering, creepily into my eara name of a book, but
Madeleine Cleary (2) (05:33):
maybe, maybe not of the tactic.
Well, my husband did run out ofthe shop, by the way.
When I approached that person,he's like, he just just gone.
He's like, he was like cringing.
He's like, I can't, I can't bearound.
Yeah.
I can
Tina Strachan (05:44):
support you so much, Madeleine, but this, this
is the line.
Well, uh, okay, well let's goand thank you Madeleine, for
fitting us into a very busyschedule.
Madeleine Cleary (05:53):
Yes, you have
Tina Strachan (05:53):
had
Madeleine Cleary (05:53):
had a lot on, I'm, I'm on, I'm having a break
now.
I'm like, I've got one moreevent.
That's it.
And then I'm just, I'm gonnachill for a few weeks.
So that's good.
But I, it's been, it's beenamazing.
Very luck.
Lucky and privileged to have allthe events that I've been doing.
So it's been a lot of fun.
Um, and I think once you've donea few.
You, you have to try and avoid,you know, saying the same things
(06:13):
as well.
You wanna try.
And, and I'm very, I'm verycognizant of it because I can
see my husband, he's been inevery single event and when he
goes on his phone, I know thatI'm just repeating myself.
So I'm like, okay, trying tospice this up a bit.
Natasha Rai (06:27):
Yeah.
But you know, on, on that point,I was talking to somebody last
night and a writer, and theywere saying that.
Yes, but also it's unlikely thatpeople, apart from like, you
know, our spouses and family aregonna be coming to multiple
events.
So you could say some similarstories and if they're a super
fan, they're gonna love hearingit over and over anyway.
Madeleine Cleary (06:45):
That's right.
Like you've attended some ofEmily McGuires, haven't she,
Nash Natasha now over a fewtimes.
Natasha Rai (06:51):
Yes.
Madeleine Cleary (06:52):
And every time you learn something.
Right,
Natasha Rai (06:54):
exactly.
And I never get bored becausewhat I love about the way she
talks about her book, and I'msure you're the same Madeleine
and you as well, Tina, is theexcitement.
Like every time she talks aboutthe inspiration behind the book
or what she was thinking aboutin terms of craft, there's just
so much excitement that thatkind of infiltrates the the
people there.
And then I get excited about myown work and it kind of just has
(07:16):
a beautiful kind of knock oneffect.
Tina Strachan (07:18):
I love that.
Natasha Rai (07:20):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (07:20):
I mean, the same questions that you get asked as
well, so it is a little bit hardto shake it up all the time.
But yeah, like Asha said, Idon't think people, it's not
boring for the people that arelistening.
Exactly.
Um, I've heard comedians do thesame thing, like the same sketch
on a show, on a live, on aradio.
Yeah.
So, you know, if it's goodmaterial, it's using it, keep
pulling it out.
(07:40):
Alright.
Okay.
Moving on.
We had this really fun idea andit really would've, you know,
the logistics of it got a bitconfusing when we, when we
realized that we're not all inperson.
But, so our idea for today'sshow was we had, um, we just
really wanted to have a catch upabout what it's like now that,
now that we're all published.
Um, but then we thought reallyfun way to do it was, um, each
(08:01):
of us have come up with threequestions.
To ask and we've just thrownthem into a hat randomly.
And then of course the logisticsof it got a bit confusing, but
that's okay.
I wrote to my husband to, tohelp out.
And, um, so we've all got threequestions each, and then I have
a, i I have a hat with names init that I wanna pull out and
we'll get each gonna ask ourrandom question to one of us
here.
So we don't know.
We could get our own question.
(08:22):
I don't know.
Let's see how we go.
Should I start?
I'm gonna start.
Okay.
So I'm gonna pull, so this is myfirst question.
I'm gonna pull my name out of,out of a hat, and I'm
Madeleine Cleary (08:36):
just, so this is like the most nervous I've
been for an interview so far.
It's,
Tina Strachan (08:43):
it's my name.
I'm gonna, should I put it backin or should I answer it?
No, answer it.
How has publishing a bookchanged, impacted your day job?
Susan Joy-Lu (08:53):
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Tina Strachan (08:54):
Good question.
How was publishing book?
Okay, so I guess.
I have just had to try a littlebit harder to compartmentalize
because there's a lot going on,right?
Once the book comes out, andthat's probably just when it's
new a lot of the time.
There's a lot of things goingon, and you kind of know that
there's all this stuff happeningover here to the side, and
emails are coming in and socialmedia's doing lots of stuff, and
(09:16):
it's so tempting to just have alittle look.
See what's happening and respondbecause you wanna get back to
everyone.
Um, so I've really had tocompartmentalize and make sure
that when I'm at work I'm sortof not looking at that because
that's can be quite timeconsuming.
Um, and yeah, like I have apretty technical job and I
really need my brain to focus.
So, um, yeah, it has been alittle bit distracting, but, um,
(09:41):
yeah, I've just had to reallytry and separate the two I.
Madeleine Cleary (09:47):
Are you, are you still motivated by your day
job?
Because I know how much youloved it, pre-publication.
This is a follow up question.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (09:54):
yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (09:55):
I do.
Tina Strachan (09:56):
And I love, I, you know, studied for a really
long time and I, um, kind ofworked my way up to where I am
now and I love everybody that'sthere.
I work with some really smartpeople and, um, yeah, really
passionate people and I feel Ijust love being around them and
feeling smarter just for beingaround them.
So, so yes, it's definitely,it's definitely still there, but
(10:17):
sometimes feels like twodifferent worlds.
Hmm.
What about you guys?
Do you, do you just feel likeyou're living too, like a double
life almost?
Natasha Rai (10:25):
Um, for me a little bit because, um, I don't talk
about myself and my work.
'cause that would be quite weirdto do that.
Um, you better say what you areNatasha as well for those who
don't know.
Oh, okay.
I'm a, I'm a counselor.
Um, so, so I don't talk about mywork and I have no idea if any
or my clients even know I'vepublished a book.
(10:47):
Doesn't matter.
Um, I think for me, in terms ofthe work change is, um, I try
not to take too much time offbecause it can be really
disruptive for people becausethey really need that regular
type of, um, you know,consistency from me.
I find it easier now that thebook's been out for a couple of
months to switch off from socialmedia and checking during the
(11:10):
day.
And also because work, the workcan get quite intense and quite
absorbing like it's.
It can feel like I'm gettingyanked out of it in terms of my
brain space to, to check.
Um, but so far I'm still lovingmy job and I don't have any
intention so far to, you know,take more time away from that
(11:31):
or, yeah, I think it's, I foundsomething that's working right
now,
Madeleine Cleary (11:36):
and I think also the day job is, is
something, it's, it's actually anice break for me from all the
social media and all theconstant thinking because.
It's so consuming and absorbingwhen you release a book into the
world in those first few earlyweeks.
My job actually feels like a bitof a holiday from from that.
I'm not saying that it's, it'snot fun and interesting and
(11:57):
great, but your thought, yourcons, all your thoughts.
You know, are focused on this,and that's quite exhausting.
So I actually found I've beensleeping better, going back to
work, having a bit more of aroutine around my time instead
of just Googling myself for anynew things, which is like.
Awful.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (12:16):
It is awful.
Tina Strachan (12:19):
It doesn't take long to, for that to become
almost like a habit, does it?
It's terrible.
Like don't you think?
Doesn't healthy, like it justinfiltrates?
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (12:26):
Whereas if you've got a job that's keeping
you occupied and that's all.
And I guess the key thing herefor writers though is you
cannot, even once you'vepublished a book, you can't
really leave your day job.
It's not to have that as well onthe side.
And I wouldn't leave it up noway.
Alright, I'm gonna go clockwise.
Natasha, uh, your first questionis for you.
(12:51):
Oh,
Natasha Rai (12:53):
the system's working out so well.
It's
Madeleine Cleary (2) (12:55):
so great.
Natasha Rai (12:57):
Okay.
But you don't know whosequestion it is, right?
No, I don't actually.
Mm-hmm.
Um, okay, so the question is,have my views on having an agent
or not having an agent changesince publication.
So I don't have an agent.
Um, and my views have changed alittle bit since publication.
So going in I was like, well, Idon't think I need one.
(13:19):
And, um, there's lots of goodsupport through the a SA, the
Australian Society of Authorsand also, um, individual agents
who offer contract uh,negotiations.
So I had that on my contractwith Pantera and I thought,
yeah, this is great.
I'll just do this again if andwhen I'm privileged or lucky
enough to have another novelpublished.
(13:39):
But I'm just noticing thatthere's lots of questions that
have come up since publication,like World Rights uh, and film
and or television options andjust other things that I didn't
know before publication aboutbuilding a career and longevity
and how to negotiate somedifferent things that are not
(14:01):
just the publishing contract.
So.
I'm in a state of mine now whereI am seriously contemplating,
um, getting an agent.
Madeleine Cleary (14:12):
So agents, if you're listening, Natasha is on
the lookout for an agent.
She's a future Miles Franklinaward winning author.
Natasha Rai (14:21):
So I can't stop laughing.
Um, while, while that's lovely,I'm pretty sure my phone isn't
gonna like start ringing off thehook tomorrow, but thank you
Madeleine.
That was an excellent
Tina Strachan (14:30):
plug.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
You don't know what you don'tknow, do you?
Yeah.
Even though you try to know andExactly.
You know, there's as a, allthose sorts of things.
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (14:39):
Interesting.
What about you, Tina?
Tina Strachan (14:42):
Uh, yeah, I'm probably the same.
I'm un agent and I realize nowthat there's lots of things that
they could help with, and evenif it's just the back and forth
about the contracty money sideof things.
And and I And just one moreperson that's sort of in your
corner, close to you that youcan check in with.
Exactly.
Yeah, I think, yeah.
(15:02):
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (15:04):
And made you got, you got your agent after
publication.
Yeah, that's right.
Or after you, after you signedyour, your deal.
Madeleine Cleary (15:10):
I think I realized, yeah, it, having
someone in your corner I thinkis really important.
And not to say for any of usthat publishers are trying to do
one over us at all.
And that's not, not at all thecase.
It's just, um, the, theindustry, it's, it's, especially
as a debut, it's, it's adifficult one to navigate.
Sometimes things are, can beopaque.
(15:31):
Yeah.
And so having someone who youknow is 100% backing you is, is
a, is a good thing.
Natasha Rai (15:37):
Hmm.
And I think it's just smartbusiness and professionally
because you know That's right.
If you think about anything elsethat you'd undertake, like if
you wanted to buy a house or.
Do anything that required alegal eye, you wouldn't just
count on yourself.
That's right.
Some extra, you know, power.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (15:52):
Brain power.
And also helpful for book two,right.
Coming up for book two in thatthey can help with like shopping
it around and all those sorts ofthings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Your turn.
So you are asking your question.
One, two,
Madeleine Cleary (16:09):
if it's me.
I love that it's working oursystem.
Okay.
Have you been checking your GoodReads reviews?
If yes, how does this make youfeel?
How do you manage thosefeelings?
And if not, why not?
Oh, good reads.
(16:29):
Good reads.
Um, I have not been checking myGood reads reviews.
I was initially, and then I.
Spiraled when I saw this threestar review that basically said,
um, I've appropriated sexworkers because I'm not a sex
work worker.
Although they didn't know that Iwas not a sex worker.
I haven't declared that.
I'm not.
(16:49):
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
There you go.
Yeah.
And this was bef, this wasactually a really early review
and I hadn't received that muchfeedback from the novel before
I'd been released.
And so I was basically thinking,oh my God, everyone's just gonna
three star my book.
Maybe my book is a three starbook and that's all it deserves.
And I was like, it, it reallymesses with your head.
(17:11):
And so from that moment on, I'vejust decided not to check.
Um, and I think that's beenreally good.
Instead, I have my husband whowill read me out.
The four and five star comments.
And so all I'm getting is justpositive affirmation.
So, and I think that's a reallyhealthy way to be, is
(17:31):
particularly when you'reapproaching writing for your
second book, I think it's reallynice to, to have that.
'cause you still wanna get, youstill want validation as well.
You, you, you're searching forvalidation, aren't you?
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (17:42):
Totally.
Madeleine Cleary (17:42):
And, um, and so, and I, I think though Good
Reads should be a very safeplace for readers.
It's not a place for writers.
That's my opinion anyway.
Yeah.
What about you guys?
Natasha Rai (17:53):
I totally agree with that.
Um, I only checked Good Readsonce, and I was the same as you.
I saw it was literally just aone line review, and it wasn't
even that bad, but it just mademe feel really crushed.
So I thought, right, I don'tneed to check this site because
I have so many wonderful people.
Who have messaged me to say, Ilove this.
I love your book.
(18:13):
I love your characters.
I love this family.
So I haven't checked it sinceand I haven't got anyone else to
check it or to tell me anything.
Good.
I'm just, I've just decided inmy world, good reads exist for
readers.
Yes.
And it does not exist for me.
Madeleine Cleary (18:29):
What about you, Tina?
Tina Strachan (18:31):
Yes, I, well, it's a bit different for me for
kids' books.
It's not really a thing as much,so I am happy about that.
I, um, yeah, so I haven't reallybeen looking because I think I
had like two reviews orsomething, or I don't, so I
don't really know what the normis.
And yeah, so kids, it's a littlebit different with, um,
(18:52):
children's social, but I thoughtis three is three stars on Good
Reads, actually.
Like.
Or are people seriously fivestarring things?
'cause I wasn't sure, you knowhow they say don't, sometimes
they say don't five star things.
'cause that's sometimesmeaningless if you're, I think
five Star is
Madeleine Cleary (19:06):
great, three stars.
Like, okay.
Tina Strachan (19:08):
It's
Madeleine Cleary (19:09):
just, it's like, okay.
Like it, it's not bad, but it's,it's just like, okay, four stars
is you really enjoyed it.
And then five stars is, oh, like
Tina Strachan (19:16):
this is out of this world.
Yeah.
I changed my life.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
So, yeah, not, not such a, a bigthing for me, which is great.
Madeleine Cleary (19:26):
One less thing to worry about.
Tina Strachan (19:28):
Alright.
Okay.
Back at me and I'm, so, I'mgonna ask question number 2,
2 2, Natasha.
Okay.
What is your highest high andyour lowest low?
Natasha Rai (19:43):
Since.
That's a good question.
Who wrote that?
No, I'm kidding.
Um, my highest high definitelyis, it's an amalgamation of
things, so definitely seeing iton the bookshelf every single
time, it just hits me right inthe heart in a very beautiful
way and getting feedback frompeople that they loved it best,
(20:06):
best highs ever.
Uh,
lowest of the low, uh, I dunno, maybe sometimes a
bit of worry that.
I'm not doing enough to get itout there, or I'm worried that
as time goes on, like it'll justdisappear.
But I guess that's more of aworry than a low, I have to say
I haven't really had like a low,low moment.
(20:29):
It's more about future fears andworries.
Madeleine Cleary (20:32):
Yeah.
Which can make you feel low,right?
When you think about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that is a very commonanxiety as well, particularly
around.
I think you put, you put in yourheart and soul to, to your first
novel.
You know, this is culmination ofyears and years.
It's.
It's so exciting and you have noidea what's around the corner.
(20:54):
And then when you put your bookout, you realize how many books
there are out there in theworld.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Natasha Rai (21:01):
Yeah.
And even each week that goes byalmost, there's a new book out
every month.
There's new book.
Oh, every day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
Tina Strachan (21:09):
that's what I was saying to Madeleine, like, you
know about the, you know,ranking in Amazon, um, recently.
'cause there's books in, and I'msure this is the same for.
The categories for like adult.
Category books because like withkids books, the children's books
category has, and this is thesame for Big W and probably All
(21:30):
Dmex and all the other biggerplaces that have it online.
They, they categorize it.
It's in there with coloringbooks.
It's in there with, uh, recipebooks.
It's in there with, um, picturebooks, like everything, like
baby board books, likeeverything, you know, it's, um.
There's just these mainstays inthe, you know, top 500 that are
(21:56):
just always there and you just,they're never gonna leave the
top 500, you know, HarryPotters, you know, all these
long standing ones and like,it'd be the same for the adult
genre.
I'm sure.
You know, you'd have all thosereal long standing classics that
just always there and, and yeah,it.
So you've almost gotta go like,oh, am I in the top few thousand
or 10,000?
And that's, that's really good,you know, to, to even be like
(22:18):
that.
I think as a debut, you like,you're sort of, it's, um, a lot
to, to sort of get a bit lowerthan that, I think, um, which is
a bit daunting at first, butwhen you, you look at that and
you look who is taking up thetop, you know, 500 just with
these, these books, um, thathave just been there forever.
Yeah.
It's, it's, you can understandwhy.
Um, how do
Madeleine Cleary (22:37):
you become a longstanding book?
That's been something I've beenthinking about, and I think like
prize winners, award winnersthat, you know, down the track
if your book's kind of, youknow, fading momentum, which
happens to, I think every bookthat can like, you know, be
another spurt.
Um, yeah.
And then word of mouth of courseis always gonna be the thing
(22:59):
that sells books.
As things start to turn TikTokas well.
Like if your book suddenly goeson to book talk, there can be an
there.
But all of these things arethings outside of our control.
So it doesn't matter how manylibrary events or bookstore
events that we are doingInstagram posts in the scheme of
things.
That's right.
(23:19):
It's not, yeah, it's nothingthat we can do and it's, you
know, um, what.
I don't know what determines,you know, what bookstores get,
how many copies of which book.
But that is also a huge factoras well.
Having your book in, you know,quantities, amounts in the front
part of the store.
'cause once your book goes ontothe shelf, it's, it's really
(23:41):
difficult.
So, yeah, I think there's, allwe can focus on is the writing,
isn't it?
And writing exactly.
Alex and writing good books andbeing part of the industry and
the community, I think.
I agree.
Tina Strachan (23:52):
Yeah.
And remembering it's a longgame, I think too, isn't it?
It's a long game.
Hey, um, okay, so Madeleine, andwhen you release
Madeleine Cleary (24:01):
the second book, people will go back to
your back list as well, if theyreally loved it.
So yes, the other, and that willbe happening to you soon, Tina.
Tina Strachan (24:09):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, yes.
Very soon, like eight weeksaway.
Hopefully.
Book, book two.
Okay.
Madeleine, you'll turn to ask aquestion.
Okay.
Um, your question number two isfor me.
Okay.
Madeleine Cleary (24:21):
Oh, well this is an easy one for you, Tina.
Yeah.
Where is book two
Tina Strachan (24:27):
segue?
Well, that was handy, wasn't it?
Um, where is book two?
It's, um, probably at theprinting house at the moment, I
think.
Um, or on, its, it's probablybeing printed, right?
So it's, so July.
Two, it hits itself, shelves,Nika, and the storm.
Um, and yeah, so I'm just, youknow, sort of planning launches
(24:50):
and events and all sorts ofthings.
Um, again, which is great.
It's super fun.
This is the very, this is thereally fun part of the process,
I think.
And then, and then the, then thetime going around and, and, um,
yeah, promoting it.
So I am really looking forwardto that.
Does it feel different?
Uh, yeah, it, I think it, yes itdoes.
I think, I mean, it's still fun.
(25:10):
Um, I, and exciting, but I thinkit's, uh, you know, the sort of
an, not so much anxieties, butsort of the.
You know, the kind of unknownsof the first time are a little
bit more known now, like mm-hmm.
You know, a bit more comfortablewith, you know, going, going to
events because, you know, I'vedone them before and know what
(25:30):
to expect to a degree.
I'm sure there's always gonna besomething unexpected.
Um, yeah.
And just, yeah, just.
Yeah, just the fun of it, Iguess, and enjoying it, you
know, savoring those times.
I think, um, instead of being,you know, a little bit like
shell-shocked I think the firsttime.
So, yeah, no, I'm really lookingforward to it.
(25:51):
But, um, that was a good seguefor, for my, for me, but also
like I was, it would've beenfunnier for you guys.
Where's book two?
You know how people always
ask that?
Where's book two?
Your next one?
Where is it, Natasha?
Um, actually with my publisher,
Natasha Rai (26:11):
like, oh, okay.
It's, yeah.
So I'm just waiting to hear nextthings, but I've, I've sent it
in to see how it is and whatthey think and yeah.
Is it finished?
You've written the whole thing.
Yes.
Because Onslaught took so long.
I've actually written threemanuscripts in that time, so,
um, it's actually really good tojust have it away and just.
(26:35):
Now again, things are outta mycontrol.
There's something I can do aboutit, but it's out there with
somebody and I'll just wait andsee and I can just keep going on
the next one.
Tina Strachan (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the, the spirit,
the right thing to do.
Yes.
I think, isn't it?
Yeah.
Just keep on going.
Yeah.
Uh, Madeleine, right?
Natasha, I'm So, I
Madeleine Cleary (26:54):
can't wait for your book two, and it sounds so
good.
Um, yeah.
My book two is, um, I juststarted it Friday.
So, um, ah, literally startedit.
Yeah.
That, which was really fun.
So I, I mean, I think I've saidon the podcast before I was,
I've, I mean, I've got in herwords, which was shortlisted for
(27:15):
the Australian Fiction Prizelast year.
Just we're just gonna.
I'm gonna focus on my historicalfiction right now though,'cause
that's contemporary.
'cause I'm really enjoyingwriting historical fiction.
So we're just gonna put thatone.
It's just in the, you know, inthe, in the, in the shelf.
Just for now, in the draw fornow.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, and then I startedanother historical fiction last
(27:35):
year, which I might still goback to, but it's been taken
over by a new idea, a reallyexciting idea.
So I'm now focusing on that one.
Hmm.
Oh fun.
That's exciting.
Yeah.
You, I've gotta, I had to followCharlotte Woods Vice, you know,
which was, you've gotta followthe heat.
Oh, the heat, exactly, yes.
Pointing me in this direction.
Mm-hmm.
(27:56):
I love how we're all answering the
questions.
I know
Tina Strachan (28:01):
we don't like being interviewed on our own, do
we?
We just, oh, okay.
My turn.
So question number three, andit's.
What, you may have just answeredthis, what's next and how, and
has your approach to writingchanged?
Madeleine Cleary (28:21):
Um, yeah, I think it has changed, uh,
because I've, I've had a fewfalse starts actually writing.
I, going back to new writingsince, not, not just since the
Butterfly Women's beingpublished, but I think over the
last year working on the edits.
(28:41):
Um, and I.
What it's come down to is I needto be able to go back to that
pure writing, which is writingfor myself, writing the story
that I wanna write, and notthinking about an audience and a
market.
And because I think now thatyou, when you write.
(29:03):
And I think it's not about thepublication day, it's actually
about when you get yourcontract, suddenly your writing
now becomes, it feels moreimportant because you think this
could very likely be publishedand readers may, may very much
be writing, whereas before thatyou don't have no idea if, if
anyone's gonna read it otherthan your mom or your husband.
(29:24):
And so I think I, I've had tolearn over the last year and a
half.
To not think about other peopleand just to think about the
story that I wanna write.
And that's been a long, it'sbeen a long lesson for me and I
think I'm just starting to getback to that now.
That pure sense.
What about you
guys, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (29:44):
Uh, well because I've been writing the whole time
that I've been trying to get onsort, published, it's very, it
feels natural to me not to thinkabout any audience out there.
'cause for so long I never hadone.
Um.
So that I know what you meanMadeleine, about, I guess what
may have changed is it feelsmore possible now to get
(30:07):
something published, but alsoI'm, I don't know how to write
for an intended audience anyway,and I don't know how I would
even do that.
So I'm, I feel very lucky andfortunate that my brain doesn't
do that, that I can justcontinue following the heat.
And writing out the ideas that Ijust call into me, regardless of
(30:28):
what may happen to them.
And I think as well personally,not having a second book or two
book deal also helps me withthat because I just feel that
it's very freeing for me.
And I know some people out theremight just find that quite
terrifying.
But for me, I, I, I really lovethat freedom.
Tina Strachan (30:44):
Mm-hmm.
Natasha Rai (30:45):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (30:46):
Yeah.
That's a good place to be.
Natasha Rai (30:47):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I guess it's kind of bitdifferent.
For me, because I'm just, I'mjust gonna answer this question.
Yeah, no.
Answer it.
Yeah, go for it.
Um, a bit, a bit different forme because I knew I had those, I
had the three books I had towrite, um, but they were all
written before I.
Book one was released anyway, sothat was, so that's probably the
(31:09):
same sort of thing, like I justwrote them in the style that,
you know, and the spirit of, um,the first book.
Uh, but yeah, I always, I'vebeen writing other books as well
and I've, yeah, just sort ofbeen, I.
Writing what's been coming to meas well.
So I try not to think too muchabout the, how it was sell and
all those sorts of things.
(31:30):
That can come later, I guess.
But life writing in the heat,Madeleine, yeah, just writing it
where the heat is and whateverhappens external to that.
Once it's finished and it'soutta my control, you know, in
in, in the land of, you know,acquisitions and selling in and
all that sort of thing, then.
That'll be what it'll be, Ithink.
Yeah.
We're
Natasha Rai (31:50):
such healthy, well adjusted writers,
Tina Strachan (31:52):
aren't we?
Madeleine Cleary (31:53):
Yes.
It's taken a while, I think aswell.
And it's not even, um, thepressure, I, I mean, we all
probably put ourselves under alot of pressure, um, to do well,
and it's not even you, you don'teven want your book to do well
for you.
You want your book to do wellfor all the people that have
worked so hard on it and aroundit.
Mm-hmm.
(32:13):
Yeah.
And so I definitely feel, Idefinitely felt that I think in
the lead up and I wanted towrite a book for my follow up
that will, you know, that Ithink, and this is a hard thing
to say, but that will do wellbecause, well, you know, you
just feel.
You wanna justify all thatexpense and time and effort, not
(32:38):
just for me.
Mm-hmm.
And so once you, yeah, when youare, when you do know it's going
to be published, you've got, youdo feel that weight, I think,
and I think that's unreasonableto put that on yourself.
Because like we were sayingearlier, so much of it is
outside of your control.
If it doesn't do well from asales perspective, it doesn't
mean that it's because youdidn't do all that you could.
(33:02):
'cause I'm sure everybody who'sputting a book out in the world
has done everything could.
So that's been a lesson for meto learn, to not put that
pressure on myself.
And I definitely had a lot ofsleepless nights,
Tina Strachan (33:10):
I think, thinking about that.
Mm-hmm.
That's hard.
And enjoy not having thatdeadline as well.
Like I know you're saying somepeople would freak out about not
having a second book signed, buthaving a deadline does
absolutely change things, Ithink.
Mm-hmm.
Just knowing that it's there andeven subconsciously,
Madeleine Cleary (33:30):
you
Tina Strachan (33:30):
know, um.
It's just rushes things a littlebit like the natural process
that you would've probably gonethrough anyway, that's what I
found with my last one.
Um, my last book anyway was, um,I went through probably all the
same processes that you wouldnormally, except I had to
condense it and.
It all happens, you know?
(33:50):
'cause you do naturally, youthrow away words and naturally
you, you write off on a tangentand go whoop and have to bring
it back in and, and, or youwrite down one path that's not
leading in the right direction.
And that just happens naturally.
Mm-hmm.
When you write.
But when you've got such a shortamount of time, you're conscious
of trying not to do that.
But you almost still have to doit anyway as the process to get
(34:11):
from A to B.
Yeah.
Like it's just what you have todo.
So then you're trying to do itquickly and then you're not
sure.
And I think you second guessyourself and yeah, I found it
really.
Tricky, um, in the last time gotthere in the end, but it was
just, everything was justcondensed.
Instead of putting it down for aweek, it was like, no, pick it
back up again tomorrow morningand keep trying to find that
solution.
So
Madeleine Cleary (34:32):
in the end, and I think it's really common,
I think so many of our day BooCrew have.
It's the two book deals.
Mm.
And they've been trying to writeand edit while also doing
publicity.
For one.
It, it's a lot of, it's a, it'sit's intense while, and a lot of
them have families and, and workcommitments as well.
Trying to balance all thosethings.
It is, yeah.
It can, it's a
Madeleine Cleary (2) (34:50):
lot.
It's a lot.
Madeleine Cleary (34:51):
Yeah.
Susan Joy-Lu (34:56):
Nana Crackles is no ordinary Nana.
She spreads joy and coloreverywhere she goes.
Even on her way to fetch bananasat home, she always knows
exactly what everything needs.
But what will she do when shefinds a friend in Need?
(35:18):
A delightful debut aboutkindness and community.
Nana Crackles is the brand newdebut picture, book written and
illustrated by me, Susan Joy Lu,published by the wonderful team
at Scholastic Nana.
Crackles is one fabulous,feisty, and fiercely kind.
(35:43):
Nana with a serious love for herfavorite food, bananas.
Filled with humor and heart.
The story of Nana cracklesdefies stereotypes and shows how
this Nana takes care of thosearound her in her own unique
way.
Going to extreme andentertaining lengths to put
(36:05):
others first and to spread joyas she goes.
We see the impact of small actsof kindness.
And how a community can cometogether to meet everyone's
needs and have a lot of fun inthe process.
Nana crackles and I would liketo thank Tina for the
(36:26):
opportunity to introduce you tothis completely Banana story on
this episode of the Book Dealpodcast.
Nana by Susan Joy-Lu is out now.
Happy reading.
Madeleine Cleary (36:45):
Why can't we all just go on retreats and just
spend a whole week, just exactly
Natasha Rai (36:50):
all that lovely time.
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (36:52):
Lovely.
Natasha Rai (36:52):
Just a week.
Oh yeah, let's do two.
Tina Strachan (36:55):
Let's do a month in France.
Maybe that, that would also benice.
Okay.
Natasha, I think it's you.
Okay.
Yeah.
And your question is
Natasha Rai (37:04):
for Madeleine.
Madeleine.
Okay.
Was the experience how youexpected and or planned for, and
if not, what was unexpected?
Madeleine Cleary (37:16):
Yeah, that, this was my question actually,
and I didn't even plan myresponse to it.
Um.
I don't think it was what Iexpected.
I don't think, and I don't thinkyou can plan for it.
I think, I mean, I'm a planner.
I think we all are, you know,type A women like to be
organized and plan for thingsand, and I, I don't know.
I, I, I tried to do everything Icould, but I was not expecting
(37:41):
the incredible social mediaresponse on the day of release.
I completely underestimated howI.
Intense.
It would be when the book wasreleased on the day of release.
And I'd gone into work that day,uh, into the office and that was
a really stupid decision.
'cause I thought, oh, well thebook's not even gonna be out in
(38:02):
the bookshops.
There's nothing I can do.
I may as well just go to workand that will help me, you know,
um, I won't be just staring atmy phone.
But then I missed out on so muchbecause everyone's on there and
commenting and then you feeloverwhelmed.
A after work on the train home.
I'm just trying to like, likeeverything quickly and not take
it all in.
And so I think that wasunexpected.
I think the other thing is thatso much good stuff happens.
(38:25):
I.
But you're so exhausted andyou're in, you're doing it all
in a really condensed amount oftime.
I really wish you could spreadall these incredible moments out
into a long, like six monthperiod.
So then you can really justreflect and take in and and
appreciate the moment.
But because everything is socondensed, you're just like
(38:45):
quickly going from things tothings and, and.
It's all so amazing, but I thinknow I'm gonna be able to step
back and take a step back andjust reflect and enjoy and enjoy
all those little moments.
So, yeah, I think next time I'mgonna not work over that period.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (39:03):
At least not that day.
Please.
Madeleine Cleary (39:04):
Not the day.
Not the day.
Yeah.
So what about, what about youguys?
Maybe Tina?
Yeah, I
Tina Strachan (39:10):
agree with you, Madeleine.
That first day I was.
Shocked and surprised and I knewhow supportive the writer's
community is anyway.
And our day, our kid that day,boo Crew and our day Boo crew.
And, um, it, but you know,'causeit takes time.
Like I know I, um, I put timeaside like, you know, and I make
(39:30):
a conscious effort to sharepeople's, um, share people's
announcements and their bookreleases.
And I, you know, commenting andliking.
And I, and I try to make aneffort because I know how that.
Feels when people do it for, forme, and I love it.
You feel so supportive, but I,I, there's never enough time to,
to do every, you know,everything that you wanna do
(39:51):
and, and share everybody's, youknow, good news and things like
that in their highs.
But, um, I.
Yeah, so I, I, but I was stilljust blown away on that first
day of, you know, people justsharing that it's book release
day.
And I was like, wow, like youare, you've paid attention and
you're, you are happy aboutthis.
And you know, and then reviewscoming in just absolute blown
(40:12):
away.
Madeleine Cleary (40:13):
And part of the community, you feel, you
feel that community sense, Ithink even if it's online, but I
mean, in reality too, like inreal life.
But yeah.
What about you, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (40:22):
Yeah, I agree with what you've both said about that
first day or the first few dayseven after release.
I was really surprised.
And the other thing I'm reallysurprised about and I realized
this says more about me thananyone else, so I'm caveating
it.
For some reason, I imagined thatI would be having to talk about
my novel in front of reallyhostile people.
I dunno why like that they wouldbe coming to like, tell me how a
(40:45):
crap it is and why did I writeit?
Yeah.
So in my head I kept coming upwith all of these things I could
say about I.
Why I wrote it and why it's, youknow, it's good.
So justifying yourself.
I know.
It's so weird, isn't it?
Because even if you just tookout my weirdness out of that,
thank, why would anyone wastetheir time?
(41:05):
Someone else, if you enjoyedthis episode to the pod.
So you can receive updates assoon as, actually, to be honest,
that was unexpected surprise.
And I had people in the roomalso who were smiling and kind
and generous and were there tosupport me, and I was like, oh
yeah, you don't, you haven'tcome here to tell me what a
horrible job I've done.
Oh, it's, that's,
(41:27):
I know.
It's so weird.
Like I know it's, that'sprobably something I need to
think about at some point, butyeah.
Have
Tina Strachan (41:34):
you seen that happen though elsewhere?
I.
Natasha Rai (41:37):
And is where it's come from.
So I think, yeah, I have seenit, but I've realized there
weren't authors writing fiction.
So I've seen that happen atmaybe panels where people are
talking more about ideas ormaybe political ideas where
they've been really not abused,but there's a very hostile
people in the crowd going, youknow, Bala, how can you talk say
that, or I'm off that, whatever.
(41:58):
So that's, I guess what I had inmind when I was like, oh my God,
that's gonna happen.
Tina Strachan (42:03):
I was like, I'm gonna have all the elephant
keepers of the world emailingme, telling me.
That, that is not theappropriate, um, substrate to
keep an elephant on.
I just, I did so much likebackground checking and husband
dream manual research and totry, and I was like sending
(42:27):
diagrams to the illustrator, belike, can you make it?
This is what we do now and hasto be safe and all those sorts
of things, but not one emailyet.
So.
I'm
Natasha Rai (42:39):
an
Tina Strachan (42:39):
elephant keeper.
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (42:41):
But it's so interesting where our minds go,
isn't it like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tina Strachan (42:46):
Oh gosh.
Okay.
Yes.
Could be a lot worse.
So far so good.
Um, I've forgotten whose turn itis.
I think I just asked Madeleinethat.
Okay.
So I'm, I, I am confused becauseI feel like I've.
And I don't have a question.
You do?
Uh, right here in the chat.
Oh, brilliant.
Okay.
Professional.
(43:08):
Um,
Madeleine Cleary (43:09):
and it's for Natasha.
Okay.
Alright, Natasha, here we go.
What is your least favoritething to do when it comes to
publicity?
Natasha Rai (43:19):
This is actually my question.
Um, I have to say social media.
Only because I'm not very goodat it.
Not because I don't think thatpeople, you know, use it for
very good reasons.
It's just, I find it, I neverknow whether I should do a post
or a story or if it's even worthposting.
And sometimes I just bore myselfand I'm like, well, if I'm bored
(43:42):
by it, why would anyone elsewanna read it?
Um, and I just, I love yourposts.
You do fantastic views.
Oh, well thank you.
I didn't know that.
I mean, I don't, I actuallyreally like posting about other
books.
It's more that self.
Publicity that I'm just like, ohGod, do I sound like I'm really
up myself?
Why?
Why would I post that?
So I, that's my least favoritething.
(44:02):
My, even though the questiondoesn't ask it, my favorite
thing of all is speaking topeople, um, at events or at
festivals where we're justhaving a really lovely chat
about books and reading andother writers about craft and
that their books.
Yeah, so social media's probablymy least favorite'cause I'm not
very good at it.
Madeleine Cleary (44:19):
Do you think it's the Australian toll poppy
syndrome as well?
In on social media, you know,like talking about yourself.
I don't know, like we are scaredto, to
Tina Strachan (44:30):
do it.
I don't know.
Some people seem to be able todo it really well.
Yeah.
Um, it's definitely been a newthing for me because even on my
personal, like I had an, I havea personal Instagram account
that's separate to the authorone, which has one post on it.
Um, and I, and my face, like myFacebook, I don't post on.
(44:52):
I had think a post of the ages.
So, um, but I, it helped for mehaving an author one, a separate
one that I felt comfortablewith, um, kinda like a different
persona and I felt like it'sokay to Same do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
On there.
Um, and people want to know,people wanna know what you're up
to.
It's a bit weird at first.
(45:12):
I think it's a bit easier now'cause you have a bit more
fodder out there to play with.
Like you, you've just gotnatural reviews and things like
that that you can post.
Whereas before it's um, it's alittle bit different.
But, um,
Madeleine Cleary (45:23):
and I think if people have put time into
reviews, like it makes sense forus to share that.
Like, you know, people havespent so much time crafting.
Yes.
Yeah, that's true.
Yes.
And don't they make them lookbeautiful?
Do, do.
The least we can do is to sharethat.
It's not in the spirit of, oh,look at me like this is, I've
got a five star review.
(45:43):
It's like,
Natasha Rai (45:44):
yeah, I think that is a really good point because I
don't, for me personally, that'snot what I don't like sharing.
It's more like if I get somenews or I have to, I don't know,
talk about the book in some waythat's comes from me.
I'm always like, oh God,
Madeleine Cleary (45:58):
but make it about other people.
Maybe.
Then Natasha like, yeah, yeah,you know, you could, you could
say, oh.
I've got this great piece ofnews like, you know, I think
I've done that recently.
Like, oh, I, I felt, I ha, Iunderstand Natasha.
'cause I'm like, oh people mustbe so fricking sick of me now
'cause it's just
Natasha Rai (46:15):
been so much.
Which is, which is so weird,Madeleine.
'cause you posted about startingyour second book and I was so
excited for you.
Like, I, you know, I was like,oh my God, that's so
Madeleine Cleary (46:24):
exciting.
Natasha Rai (46:24):
You,
Madeleine Cleary (46:24):
you have this internal dialogue.
You're like, oh, people must beso bored now.
But then you, then you talk andpeople are like, no, no, no,
this is, we, we wanna know howyou're going and what all, like,
we're, we're here for you.
Like, this is great.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but yeah, I've tried tolike make, like, you know, shout
out to the booksellers and shoutout to the, to the, the
reviewers.
And the bloggers and like allthose amazing people in this
industry to make it about them.
(46:45):
Because without them.
We wouldn't be able to do whatwe do.
That's
true.
And so I'm trying to do thatevery occasion to make it less
like, oh, look at me.
You know,
look at all the
cool things.
Um, what's the favorite thingabout publicity?
Oh, that's, I'm the same.
Oh, you're the same?
Okay.
So all the same.
Yeah.
(47:06):
I mean, it's, it's, that's, youknow, when something can be
really good and really bad atthe same time.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's social media because you're
getting all this amazingvalidation.
But it's also, it, it, yeah.
You just don't know what youshould be doing all the time.
And if people are judging you.
Yeah.
(47:26):
What about you, Tina?
I know, and I'm looking at thetime like, oh my God, we're,
we're, we're almost through it.
We, we, don't we?
That's all our questions.
Oh.
What's your least favoritething,
Tina Strachan (47:36):
Tina?
Um, um, what was it aboutpublicity?
Hmm.
Um, yeah, I'd probably saysocials as well.
Right.
Um, it takes me a while to do asocial media post sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and sometimes I, like Ihave, I actually have the, I
like.
Ideas of things that I want topost.
(47:58):
Like I was just going to do abig reviewer's post, which I
will do.
It's my mental note to self todo today.
Um, because yeah, there's stillreviews coming up for Nikki and
the missing key now, and I just,there's a beautiful one in the
Magpies magazine last.
In the May issue, um, by BrentonCullen.
(48:19):
And honestly, he just mo wrotethe most beautiful words and I'm
so appreciative of that.
Um, and I guess that's probablymy most favorite thing about pub
publicity is reading those,reading people's words, where
they've actually said in theirown words, you know, they've
read the book and then they'vesaid in their own words.
Good things about it and you'rejust like, oh, that's so nice
(48:40):
because you know, you're soclose to it and you could
probably never think thosethings about your own book.
I mean, I know I can't, I mean,you know, you think this is a
good book and that's enjoyableand the kids will like it, but
to have people put their ownspin on it is pretty incredible.
Okay.
Madeleine Cleary (48:53):
Tina post that so we can read it.
Oh my, oh no, that's just
Tina Strachan (48:57):
thinking.
I just got the copy of it, so Iwill.
Yeah, I definitely will.
It's
lovely.
It just so lovely.
Yeah.
Oh.
All right.
Well we should wrap up Quicklynote, that was, that was, that
was really
Natasha Rai (49:09):
fun.
I love those questions.
This is
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:11):
really good.
Do it again because my systemwas really good too.
Tina Strachan (49:15):
I worked really
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:16):
system, totally worked
Tina Strachan (49:17):
because you know, it's even better.
I have like this one leftovername and I can't work out where
it's going from.
So, um,
Madeleine Cleary (49:25):
yeah.
Well, and if anyone hasquestions for us for next time
as well, uh, just let us know.
Send us a message on socials.
We'll that,
can we do a super quick, um, top tip each on
the fly.
Okay.
Top
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:38):
tip, each.
Madeleine, Natasha, well like,stop.
Natasha Rai (49:43):
Dumb.
Top, top tip about anything likepublishing related.
Tina Strachan (49:49):
Yeah, my top tip, um, actually comes from, from
another author.
I borrowed this when it doescome to socials.
Um, you don't, don't worryactually.
Or put pressure on yourself topost all the time.
You kinda don't have to,especially if you don't feel
comfortable.
Even Catherine Collette's gotsome really interesting, um,
tips on this at the moment abouttry trying to make it your own,
(50:09):
um, if, and if that feels morecomfortable to you, but also,
but just be there still and havea presence when it comes to, you
know, maybe commenting on otherpeople's.
Uh, posts and showing support orsharing, and that's just as
important because it's still,you still have a presence there.
Um, so if you don't know what topost and you're a little bit
stuck, just get in there withsome likes and some shares and
some comments.
(50:30):
And that's, um, probably evenmore important because it's
showing support for your writercommunity.
Mm,
Natasha Rai (50:36):
I like that.
Um, okay, I've got one.
So I've, I'm directly stealingthis from a panel I went to
yesterday at Sydney WritersFestival, but I liked it so much
that I'm like, right, I need toshare this love.
So, um, Michelle Brasier, whowas on this panel said that she
has an evidence log.
What she does is every time shegets feedback from her friends,
(50:57):
colleagues, peers.
Even reviews that are positive,she literally writes them down
in this book.
I love that.
And when she has the doubts andwhen she has the imposter
syndrome, or she thinks she'swriting something terrible, she
looks at her evidence log thatspeaks otherwise
Tina Strachan (51:13):
love isn't.
Isn't that great?
Yes.
You know, you could also putthat on a poster or something on
your computer or where youwrite.
Yes, exactly.
Natasha Rai (51:20):
And you just look at it like,
Tina Strachan (51:22):
no, I'm good.
Madeleine Cleary (51:23):
I'm good.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yes.
That is amazing.
I love that so much.
Me too.
Um, I don't really have it.
I mean, other than following theheat with your writing at the
moment, I think because I'vebeen to so many beautiful book
events recently and hosted bylike amazing independent
bookshops, go, go to supportyour indie bookshops.
(51:46):
Buy books from them, be part ofthat community, engage with them
attending these events, likeit's it, they're so, so
interesting.
I think hearing from otherwriters like, look Natasha, you
went yesterday, Sydney WritersFestival and got a great tip.
So I think exactly you'reemerging writer.
Go and enjoy and be part of thecommunity.
Great.
Top tips.
This has been
really fun.
(52:07):
It has.
Yeah.
Let's do it again soon.
Yeah.
Thanks everyone.
Thank you.
Bye.
Tina Strachan (2) (52:18):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new S drop and to keep up
to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring stories,the authors behind your favorite
books.
No matter what sage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a time.
(00:29):
The Book Deal Podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners of the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Tina Strachan (00:43):
Welcome everybody to the Book Deal podcast.
We have a really excitingepisode for you today because
it's not just me.
My name's Tina Strachan, notjust me today, but I'm also
joined by Madeleine Cleary.
Hello everybody.
And Natasha Rai.
Hello.
It's so good to be here.
Oh, all three of us today.
Um, this is the first time we,all three of us have actually
(01:03):
been, um, on the same podtogether, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
I'd like to say the same roomtogether, but like can't.
We're actually in threedifferent states, so.
Madeleine Cleary (01:13):
We've all met each other separately, haven't
we?
Yeah, we just, yeah, we have.
Yeah, we had it together.
Together, which is so sad.
We're gonna have to do that.
We can, that could be a taxdeductible thing.
I think a trip, the three of us.
Tina Strachan (01:26):
End of
Madeleine Cleary (01:26):
your
Tina Strachan (01:26):
Christmas party.
End of your work Christmasparty.
Yeah, let's do it.
Oh, that'd be so fun.
Oh, well, so in the, um, it'salso really exciting too.
Another first is that this isthe first time that we've all
come together as publishedauthors.
Mm.
Yes.
So I think the last time, lasttime I, I spoke to you,
(01:48):
Madeleine,
Madeleine Cleary (01:49):
you were yet to release.
That's right.
So it was only a few days out, Ithink, wasn't it?
And I'd seen it at Sorento, butnot officially on a bookshelf,
which is the important part Ithink it's seeing in a
bookstore.
Did you guys find, I'm curious,I know we've got, we've got so
many fun things to talk aboutthis episode, but just quickly,
every time you see your book ina bookshop, you get the same
(02:10):
thrill and rush.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Do you think it'll ever go away?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (02:21):
How can it don't, it's just like, oh my
God, there.
It's, that's right.
Yes.
That's, that's the tone, isn'tit?
Oh my God, there, it's, it'severy single time.
Tina Strachan (02:29):
Exactly.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (02:29):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (02:29):
Exactly.
And a little bit of unbelievablestill, like, it still feels to
me like a little bit like, oh,it's not gonna be there.
It's not gonna be on the shelf.
And there it is.
Madeleine Cleary (02:37):
Yes.
And you always, you always go inwith low expectations, don't
you?
Totally.
It's not gonna be you.
There might be one copy andlook, there might not even be
one copy and that's fine.
And you just tell yourself, youprotect yourself in your head.
Natasha Rai (02:50):
Um, that happened to me, so on.
So I'm just gonna ask on that.
Do either of you do the creepything where you just kind of
hang around and see if anyone'sgonna buy it?
And then just stare at people.
Mm-hmm.
Does anyone else do that or isthat just I have done that.
Okay.
I sort of just
Tina Strachan (03:02):
stand in the aisle and be like, oh, look,
here's Yep.
Let's see if they're gonna runtheir eyes over it.
Madeleine Cleary (03:08):
Okay.
So question.
If you saw someone picking upyour book in a bookshop and
looking at the back cover, wouldyou approach them?
Oh,
Tina Strachan (03:16):
I would go up to 'em and say.
Hi, my name's Madeleine Clearyand my friend Tina wrote this
book.
Madeleine Cleary (03:23):
Um, I Ask because because you've done that
before for me.
So I have, and I did it formyself as well.
It did happen to you did.
Interesting.
Okay.
Did happen.
Tell Telltale.
So just Yeah, quickly.
So I was at my local Dimmick,um, and I, I was just like
walking past and then a guy waslooking at it'cause it was on
like the top 10, which is soexciting.
(03:45):
He was looking at it and it waslike the day before Mother's
Day.
And so Pat was with me, myhusband, and he's like, don't do
it.
Edlin, don't do it.
I'm like, I'm gonna do it, I'mgonna do it.
So I went up to him, I'm like,oh hi.
That's actually a really goodbook.
Like I can really recommend it.
And he's like, oh, really?
He's like, yeah, I'm looking fora present for my wife.
I'm like, oh, she would love it.
Like it's historical.
It's gonna murder mystery.
(04:06):
It's a romance.
He's like, oh, that soundsreally cool.
Um.
I'm like, and for fulldisclosure, I'm also the author.
So, um, I thought I'm a bitbiased, but I promise that
she'll enjoy it.
And he is like, oh, well I'mgonna have to buy this then, and
would you sign it?
I'm like, yeah, absolutely.
So did you sign it and say, yourhusband is awesome, Natasha,
like, mouth is just open.
Natasha Rai (04:26):
I, I'm like, you are so cool.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:32):
Me
Madeleine Cleary (04:32):
though, like,
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:32):
I,
Madeleine Cleary (04:32):
you know, I.
Natasha Rai (04:36):
I just adopted that persona.
I know, but it's just that coolcasual way that you're like, oh
yeah.
This is amazing book.
By the way, I'm the author.
I would be like, like a weirdcreep, like behind someone like
looking over their shouldergoing,
BA it, ba it
Madeleine Cleary (2) (04:52):
your, your voice just went then.
Yeah.
Your voice just went.
It is'cause I whispered.
Tina Strachan (04:56):
I was just whispering.
You're whispering on, oh, mymark's all the way over here.
Actually, no.
You're gonna have to let know.
Maybe no one's.
Even heard anything that I'vesaid this whole time.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (05:06):
Our podcast is just.
Tina Strachan (05:10):
Let me know if not, and I'll try and like
overdub my everything.
Um, no, I'll just whisperinglike Tash standing behind the,
the shelves going
Susan Joy-Lu (05:17):
and I'm slow to fly.
I flight, buy it
Tina Strachan (05:22):
and he's like,
Natasha Rai (05:23):
this a weird reason to buy this.
An onslaught of light.
I would actually be running outof the shop if I heard someone
whispering, creepily into my eara name of a book, but
Madeleine Cleary (2) (05:33):
maybe, maybe not of the tactic.
Well, my husband did run out ofthe shop, by the way.
When I approached that person,he's like, he just just gone.
He's like, he was like cringing.
He's like, I can't, I can't bearound.
Yeah.
I can
Tina Strachan (05:44):
support you so much, Madeleine, but this, this
is the line.
Well, uh, okay, well let's goand thank you Madeleine, for
fitting us into a very busyschedule.
Madeleine Cleary (05:53):
Yes, you have
Tina Strachan (05:53):
had
Madeleine Cleary (05:53):
had a lot on, I'm, I'm on, I'm having a break
now.
I'm like, I've got one moreevent.
That's it.
And then I'm just, I'm gonnachill for a few weeks.
So that's good.
But I, it's been, it's beenamazing.
Very luck.
Lucky and privileged to have allthe events that I've been doing.
So it's been a lot of fun.
Um, and I think once you've donea few.
You, you have to try and avoid,you know, saying the same things
(06:13):
as well.
You wanna try.
And, and I'm very, I'm verycognizant of it because I can
see my husband, he's been inevery single event and when he
goes on his phone, I know thatI'm just repeating myself.
So I'm like, okay, trying tospice this up a bit.
Natasha Rai (06:27):
Yeah.
But you know, on, on that point,I was talking to somebody last
night and a writer, and theywere saying that.
Yes, but also it's unlikely thatpeople, apart from like, you
know, our spouses and family aregonna be coming to multiple
events.
So you could say some similarstories and if they're a super
fan, they're gonna love hearingit over and over anyway.
Madeleine Cleary (06:45):
That's right.
Like you've attended some ofEmily McGuires, haven't she,
Nash Natasha now over a fewtimes.
Natasha Rai (06:51):
Yes.
Madeleine Cleary (06:52):
And every time you learn something.
Right,
Natasha Rai (06:54):
exactly.
And I never get bored becausewhat I love about the way she
talks about her book, and I'msure you're the same Madeleine
and you as well, Tina, is theexcitement.
Like every time she talks aboutthe inspiration behind the book
or what she was thinking aboutin terms of craft, there's just
so much excitement that thatkind of infiltrates the the
people there.
And then I get excited about myown work and it kind of just has
(07:16):
a beautiful kind of knock oneffect.
Tina Strachan (07:18):
I love that.
Natasha Rai (07:20):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (07:20):
I mean, the same questions that you get asked as
well, so it is a little bit hardto shake it up all the time.
But yeah, like Asha said, Idon't think people, it's not
boring for the people that arelistening.
Exactly.
Um, I've heard comedians do thesame thing, like the same sketch
on a show, on a live, on aradio.
Yeah.
So, you know, if it's goodmaterial, it's using it, keep
pulling it out.
(07:40):
Alright.
Okay.
Moving on.
We had this really fun idea andit really would've, you know,
the logistics of it got a bitconfusing when we, when we
realized that we're not all inperson.
But, so our idea for today'sshow was we had, um, we just
really wanted to have a catch upabout what it's like now that,
now that we're all published.
Um, but then we thought reallyfun way to do it was, um, each
(08:01):
of us have come up with threequestions.
To ask and we've just thrownthem into a hat randomly.
And then of course the logisticsof it got a bit confusing, but
that's okay.
I wrote to my husband to, tohelp out.
And, um, so we've all got threequestions each, and then I have
a, i I have a hat with names init that I wanna pull out and
we'll get each gonna ask ourrandom question to one of us
here.
So we don't know.
We could get our own question.
(08:22):
I don't know.
Let's see how we go.
Should I start?
I'm gonna start.
Okay.
So I'm gonna pull, so this is myfirst question.
I'm gonna pull my name out of,out of a hat, and I'm
Madeleine Cleary (08:36):
just, so this is like the most nervous I've
been for an interview so far.
It's,
Tina Strachan (08:43):
it's my name.
I'm gonna, should I put it backin or should I answer it?
No, answer it.
How has publishing a bookchanged, impacted your day job?
Susan Joy-Lu (08:53):
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Tina Strachan (08:54):
Good question.
How was publishing book?
Okay, so I guess.
I have just had to try a littlebit harder to compartmentalize
because there's a lot going on,right?
Once the book comes out, andthat's probably just when it's
new a lot of the time.
There's a lot of things goingon, and you kind of know that
there's all this stuff happeningover here to the side, and
emails are coming in and socialmedia's doing lots of stuff, and
(09:16):
it's so tempting to just have alittle look.
See what's happening and respondbecause you wanna get back to
everyone.
Um, so I've really had tocompartmentalize and make sure
that when I'm at work I'm sortof not looking at that because
that's can be quite timeconsuming.
Um, and yeah, like I have apretty technical job and I
really need my brain to focus.
So, um, yeah, it has been alittle bit distracting, but, um,
(09:41):
yeah, I've just had to reallytry and separate the two I.
Madeleine Cleary (09:47):
Are you, are you still motivated by your day
job?
Because I know how much youloved it, pre-publication.
This is a follow up question.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (09:54):
yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (09:55):
I do.
Tina Strachan (09:56):
And I love, I, you know, studied for a really
long time and I, um, kind ofworked my way up to where I am
now and I love everybody that'sthere.
I work with some really smartpeople and, um, yeah, really
passionate people and I feel Ijust love being around them and
feeling smarter just for beingaround them.
So, so yes, it's definitely,it's definitely still there, but
(10:17):
sometimes feels like twodifferent worlds.
Hmm.
What about you guys?
Do you, do you just feel likeyou're living too, like a double
life almost?
Natasha Rai (10:25):
Um, for me a little bit because, um, I don't talk
about myself and my work.
'cause that would be quite weirdto do that.
Um, you better say what you areNatasha as well for those who
don't know.
Oh, okay.
I'm a, I'm a counselor.
Um, so, so I don't talk about mywork and I have no idea if any
or my clients even know I'vepublished a book.
(10:47):
Doesn't matter.
Um, I think for me, in terms ofthe work change is, um, I try
not to take too much time offbecause it can be really
disruptive for people becausethey really need that regular
type of, um, you know,consistency from me.
I find it easier now that thebook's been out for a couple of
months to switch off from socialmedia and checking during the
(11:10):
day.
And also because work, the workcan get quite intense and quite
absorbing like it's.
It can feel like I'm gettingyanked out of it in terms of my
brain space to, to check.
Um, but so far I'm still lovingmy job and I don't have any
intention so far to, you know,take more time away from that
(11:31):
or, yeah, I think it's, I foundsomething that's working right
now,
Madeleine Cleary (11:36):
and I think also the day job is, is
something, it's, it's actually anice break for me from all the
social media and all theconstant thinking because.
It's so consuming and absorbingwhen you release a book into the
world in those first few earlyweeks.
My job actually feels like a bitof a holiday from from that.
I'm not saying that it's, it'snot fun and interesting and
(11:57):
great, but your thought, yourcons, all your thoughts.
You know, are focused on this,and that's quite exhausting.
So I actually found I've beensleeping better, going back to
work, having a bit more of aroutine around my time instead
of just Googling myself for anynew things, which is like.
Awful.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (12:16):
It is awful.
Tina Strachan (12:19):
It doesn't take long to, for that to become
almost like a habit, does it?
It's terrible.
Like don't you think?
Doesn't healthy, like it justinfiltrates?
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (12:26):
Whereas if you've got a job that's keeping
you occupied and that's all.
And I guess the key thing herefor writers though is you
cannot, even once you'vepublished a book, you can't
really leave your day job.
It's not to have that as well onthe side.
And I wouldn't leave it up noway.
Alright, I'm gonna go clockwise.
Natasha, uh, your first questionis for you.
(12:51):
Oh,
Natasha Rai (12:53):
the system's working out so well.
It's
Madeleine Cleary (2) (12:55):
so great.
Natasha Rai (12:57):
Okay.
But you don't know whosequestion it is, right?
No, I don't actually.
Mm-hmm.
Um, okay, so the question is,have my views on having an agent
or not having an agent changesince publication.
So I don't have an agent.
Um, and my views have changed alittle bit since publication.
So going in I was like, well, Idon't think I need one.
(13:19):
And, um, there's lots of goodsupport through the a SA, the
Australian Society of Authorsand also, um, individual agents
who offer contract uh,negotiations.
So I had that on my contractwith Pantera and I thought,
yeah, this is great.
I'll just do this again if andwhen I'm privileged or lucky
enough to have another novelpublished.
(13:39):
But I'm just noticing thatthere's lots of questions that
have come up since publication,like World Rights uh, and film
and or television options andjust other things that I didn't
know before publication aboutbuilding a career and longevity
and how to negotiate somedifferent things that are not
(14:01):
just the publishing contract.
So.
I'm in a state of mine now whereI am seriously contemplating,
um, getting an agent.
Madeleine Cleary (14:12):
So agents, if you're listening, Natasha is on
the lookout for an agent.
She's a future Miles Franklinaward winning author.
Natasha Rai (14:21):
So I can't stop laughing.
Um, while, while that's lovely,I'm pretty sure my phone isn't
gonna like start ringing off thehook tomorrow, but thank you
Madeleine.
That was an excellent
Tina Strachan (14:30):
plug.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
You don't know what you don'tknow, do you?
Yeah.
Even though you try to know andExactly.
You know, there's as a, allthose sorts of things.
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (14:39):
Interesting.
What about you, Tina?
Tina Strachan (14:42):
Uh, yeah, I'm probably the same.
I'm un agent and I realize nowthat there's lots of things that
they could help with, and evenif it's just the back and forth
about the contracty money sideof things.
And and I And just one moreperson that's sort of in your
corner, close to you that youcan check in with.
Exactly.
Yeah, I think, yeah.
(15:02):
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (15:04):
And made you got, you got your agent after
publication.
Yeah, that's right.
Or after you, after you signedyour, your deal.
Madeleine Cleary (15:10):
I think I realized, yeah, it, having
someone in your corner I thinkis really important.
And not to say for any of usthat publishers are trying to do
one over us at all.
And that's not, not at all thecase.
It's just, um, the, theindustry, it's, it's, especially
as a debut, it's, it's adifficult one to navigate.
Sometimes things are, can beopaque.
(15:31):
Yeah.
And so having someone who youknow is 100% backing you is, is
a, is a good thing.
Natasha Rai (15:37):
Hmm.
And I think it's just smartbusiness and professionally
because you know That's right.
If you think about anything elsethat you'd undertake, like if
you wanted to buy a house or.
Do anything that required alegal eye, you wouldn't just
count on yourself.
That's right.
Some extra, you know, power.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (15:52):
Brain power.
And also helpful for book two,right.
Coming up for book two in thatthey can help with like shopping
it around and all those sorts ofthings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Your turn.
So you are asking your question.
One, two,
Madeleine Cleary (16:09):
if it's me.
I love that it's working oursystem.
Okay.
Have you been checking your GoodReads reviews?
If yes, how does this make youfeel?
How do you manage thosefeelings?
And if not, why not?
Oh, good reads.
(16:29):
Good reads.
Um, I have not been checking myGood reads reviews.
I was initially, and then I.
Spiraled when I saw this threestar review that basically said,
um, I've appropriated sexworkers because I'm not a sex
work worker.
Although they didn't know that Iwas not a sex worker.
I haven't declared that.
I'm not.
(16:49):
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
There you go.
Yeah.
And this was bef, this wasactually a really early review
and I hadn't received that muchfeedback from the novel before
I'd been released.
And so I was basically thinking,oh my God, everyone's just gonna
three star my book.
Maybe my book is a three starbook and that's all it deserves.
And I was like, it, it reallymesses with your head.
(17:11):
And so from that moment on, I'vejust decided not to check.
Um, and I think that's beenreally good.
Instead, I have my husband whowill read me out.
The four and five star comments.
And so all I'm getting is justpositive affirmation.
So, and I think that's a reallyhealthy way to be, is
(17:31):
particularly when you'reapproaching writing for your
second book, I think it's reallynice to, to have that.
'cause you still wanna get, youstill want validation as well.
You, you, you're searching forvalidation, aren't you?
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (17:42):
Totally.
Madeleine Cleary (17:42):
And, um, and so, and I, I think though Good
Reads should be a very safeplace for readers.
It's not a place for writers.
That's my opinion anyway.
Yeah.
What about you guys?
Natasha Rai (17:53):
I totally agree with that.
Um, I only checked Good Readsonce, and I was the same as you.
I saw it was literally just aone line review, and it wasn't
even that bad, but it just mademe feel really crushed.
So I thought, right, I don'tneed to check this site because
I have so many wonderful people.
Who have messaged me to say, Ilove this.
I love your book.
(18:13):
I love your characters.
I love this family.
So I haven't checked it sinceand I haven't got anyone else to
check it or to tell me anything.
Good.
I'm just, I've just decided inmy world, good reads exist for
readers.
Yes.
And it does not exist for me.
Madeleine Cleary (18:29):
What about you, Tina?
Tina Strachan (18:31):
Yes, I, well, it's a bit different for me for
kids' books.
It's not really a thing as much,so I am happy about that.
I, um, yeah, so I haven't reallybeen looking because I think I
had like two reviews orsomething, or I don't, so I
don't really know what the normis.
And yeah, so kids, it's a littlebit different with, um,
(18:52):
children's social, but I thoughtis three is three stars on Good
Reads, actually.
Like.
Or are people seriously fivestarring things?
'cause I wasn't sure, you knowhow they say don't, sometimes
they say don't five star things.
'cause that's sometimesmeaningless if you're, I think
five Star is
Madeleine Cleary (19:06):
great, three stars.
Like, okay.
Tina Strachan (19:08):
It's
Madeleine Cleary (19:09):
just, it's like, okay.
Like it, it's not bad, but it's,it's just like, okay, four stars
is you really enjoyed it.
And then five stars is, oh, like
Tina Strachan (19:16):
this is out of this world.
Yeah.
I changed my life.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
So, yeah, not, not such a, a bigthing for me, which is great.
Madeleine Cleary (19:26):
One less thing to worry about.
Tina Strachan (19:28):
Alright.
Okay.
Back at me and I'm, so, I'mgonna ask question number 2,
2 2, Natasha.
Okay.
What is your highest high andyour lowest low?
Natasha Rai (19:43):
Since.
That's a good question.
Who wrote that?
No, I'm kidding.
Um, my highest high definitelyis, it's an amalgamation of
things, so definitely seeing iton the bookshelf every single
time, it just hits me right inthe heart in a very beautiful
way and getting feedback frompeople that they loved it best,
(20:06):
best highs ever.
Uh,
lowest of the low, uh, I dunno, maybe sometimes a
bit of worry that.
I'm not doing enough to get itout there, or I'm worried that
as time goes on, like it'll justdisappear.
But I guess that's more of aworry than a low, I have to say
I haven't really had like a low,low moment.
(20:29):
It's more about future fears andworries.
Madeleine Cleary (20:32):
Yeah.
Which can make you feel low,right?
When you think about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that is a very commonanxiety as well, particularly
around.
I think you put, you put in yourheart and soul to, to your first
novel.
You know, this is culmination ofyears and years.
It's.
It's so exciting and you have noidea what's around the corner.
(20:54):
And then when you put your bookout, you realize how many books
there are out there in theworld.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Natasha Rai (21:01):
Yeah.
And even each week that goes byalmost, there's a new book out
every month.
There's new book.
Oh, every day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
Tina Strachan (21:09):
that's what I was saying to Madeleine, like, you
know about the, you know,ranking in Amazon, um, recently.
'cause there's books in, and I'msure this is the same for.
The categories for like adult.
Category books because like withkids books, the children's books
category has, and this is thesame for Big W and probably All
(21:30):
Dmex and all the other biggerplaces that have it online.
They, they categorize it.
It's in there with coloringbooks.
It's in there with, uh, recipebooks.
It's in there with, um, picturebooks, like everything, like
baby board books, likeeverything, you know, it's, um.
There's just these mainstays inthe, you know, top 500 that are
(21:56):
just always there and you just,they're never gonna leave the
top 500, you know, HarryPotters, you know, all these
long standing ones and like,it'd be the same for the adult
genre.
I'm sure.
You know, you'd have all thosereal long standing classics that
just always there and, and yeah,it.
So you've almost gotta go like,oh, am I in the top few thousand
or 10,000?
And that's, that's really good,you know, to, to even be like
(22:18):
that.
I think as a debut, you like,you're sort of, it's, um, a lot
to, to sort of get a bit lowerthan that, I think, um, which is
a bit daunting at first, butwhen you, you look at that and
you look who is taking up thetop, you know, 500 just with
these, these books, um, thathave just been there forever.
Yeah.
It's, it's, you can understandwhy.
Um, how do
Madeleine Cleary (22:37):
you become a longstanding book?
That's been something I've beenthinking about, and I think like
prize winners, award winnersthat, you know, down the track
if your book's kind of, youknow, fading momentum, which
happens to, I think every bookthat can like, you know, be
another spurt.
Um, yeah.
And then word of mouth of courseis always gonna be the thing
(22:59):
that sells books.
As things start to turn TikTokas well.
Like if your book suddenly goeson to book talk, there can be an
there.
But all of these things arethings outside of our control.
So it doesn't matter how manylibrary events or bookstore
events that we are doingInstagram posts in the scheme of
things.
That's right.
(23:19):
It's not, yeah, it's nothingthat we can do and it's, you
know, um, what.
I don't know what determines,you know, what bookstores get,
how many copies of which book.
But that is also a huge factoras well.
Having your book in, you know,quantities, amounts in the front
part of the store.
'cause once your book goes ontothe shelf, it's, it's really
(23:41):
difficult.
So, yeah, I think there's, allwe can focus on is the writing,
isn't it?
And writing exactly.
Alex and writing good books andbeing part of the industry and
the community, I think.
I agree.
Tina Strachan (23:52):
Yeah.
And remembering it's a longgame, I think too, isn't it?
It's a long game.
Hey, um, okay, so Madeleine, andwhen you release
Madeleine Cleary (24:01):
the second book, people will go back to
your back list as well, if theyreally loved it.
So yes, the other, and that willbe happening to you soon, Tina.
Tina Strachan (24:09):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, yes.
Very soon, like eight weeksaway.
Hopefully.
Book, book two.
Okay.
Madeleine, you'll turn to ask aquestion.
Okay.
Um, your question number two isfor me.
Okay.
Madeleine Cleary (24:21):
Oh, well this is an easy one for you, Tina.
Yeah.
Where is book two
Tina Strachan (24:27):
segue?
Well, that was handy, wasn't it?
Um, where is book two?
It's, um, probably at theprinting house at the moment, I
think.
Um, or on, its, it's probablybeing printed, right?
So it's, so July.
Two, it hits itself, shelves,Nika, and the storm.
Um, and yeah, so I'm just, youknow, sort of planning launches
(24:50):
and events and all sorts ofthings.
Um, again, which is great.
It's super fun.
This is the very, this is thereally fun part of the process,
I think.
And then, and then the, then thetime going around and, and, um,
yeah, promoting it.
So I am really looking forwardto that.
Does it feel different?
Uh, yeah, it, I think it, yes itdoes.
I think, I mean, it's still fun.
(25:10):
Um, I, and exciting, but I thinkit's, uh, you know, the sort of
an, not so much anxieties, butsort of the.
You know, the kind of unknownsof the first time are a little
bit more known now, like mm-hmm.
You know, a bit more comfortablewith, you know, going, going to
events because, you know, I'vedone them before and know what
(25:30):
to expect to a degree.
I'm sure there's always gonna besomething unexpected.
Um, yeah.
And just, yeah, just.
Yeah, just the fun of it, Iguess, and enjoying it, you
know, savoring those times.
I think, um, instead of being,you know, a little bit like
shell-shocked I think the firsttime.
So, yeah, no, I'm really lookingforward to it.
(25:51):
But, um, that was a good seguefor, for my, for me, but also
like I was, it would've beenfunnier for you guys.
Where's book two?
You know how people always
ask that?
Where's book two?
Your next one?
Where is it, Natasha?
Um, actually with my publisher,
Natasha Rai (26:11):
like, oh, okay.
It's, yeah.
So I'm just waiting to hear nextthings, but I've, I've sent it
in to see how it is and whatthey think and yeah.
Is it finished?
You've written the whole thing.
Yes.
Because Onslaught took so long.
I've actually written threemanuscripts in that time, so,
um, it's actually really good tojust have it away and just.
(26:35):
Now again, things are outta mycontrol.
There's something I can do aboutit, but it's out there with
somebody and I'll just wait andsee and I can just keep going on
the next one.
Tina Strachan (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the, the spirit,
the right thing to do.
Yes.
I think, isn't it?
Yeah.
Just keep on going.
Yeah.
Uh, Madeleine, right?
Natasha, I'm So, I
Madeleine Cleary (26:54):
can't wait for your book two, and it sounds so
good.
Um, yeah.
My book two is, um, I juststarted it Friday.
So, um, ah, literally startedit.
Yeah.
That, which was really fun.
So I, I mean, I think I've saidon the podcast before I was,
I've, I mean, I've got in herwords, which was shortlisted for
(27:15):
the Australian Fiction Prizelast year.
Just we're just gonna.
I'm gonna focus on my historicalfiction right now though,'cause
that's contemporary.
'cause I'm really enjoyingwriting historical fiction.
So we're just gonna put thatone.
It's just in the, you know, inthe, in the, in the shelf.
Just for now, in the draw fornow.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, and then I startedanother historical fiction last
(27:35):
year, which I might still goback to, but it's been taken
over by a new idea, a reallyexciting idea.
So I'm now focusing on that one.
Hmm.
Oh fun.
That's exciting.
Yeah.
You, I've gotta, I had to followCharlotte Woods Vice, you know,
which was, you've gotta followthe heat.
Oh, the heat, exactly, yes.
Pointing me in this direction.
Mm-hmm.
(27:56):
I love how we're all answering the
questions.
I know
Tina Strachan (28:01):
we don't like being interviewed on our own, do
we?
We just, oh, okay.
My turn.
So question number three, andit's.
What, you may have just answeredthis, what's next and how, and
has your approach to writingchanged?
Madeleine Cleary (28:21):
Um, yeah, I think it has changed, uh,
because I've, I've had a fewfalse starts actually writing.
I, going back to new writingsince, not, not just since the
Butterfly Women's beingpublished, but I think over the
last year working on the edits.
(28:41):
Um, and I.
What it's come down to is I needto be able to go back to that
pure writing, which is writingfor myself, writing the story
that I wanna write, and notthinking about an audience and a
market.
And because I think now thatyou, when you write.
(29:03):
And I think it's not about thepublication day, it's actually
about when you get yourcontract, suddenly your writing
now becomes, it feels moreimportant because you think this
could very likely be publishedand readers may, may very much
be writing, whereas before thatyou don't have no idea if, if
anyone's gonna read it otherthan your mom or your husband.
(29:24):
And so I think I, I've had tolearn over the last year and a
half.
To not think about other peopleand just to think about the
story that I wanna write.
And that's been a long, it'sbeen a long lesson for me and I
think I'm just starting to getback to that now.
That pure sense.
What about you
guys, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (29:44):
Uh, well because I've been writing the whole time
that I've been trying to get onsort, published, it's very, it
feels natural to me not to thinkabout any audience out there.
'cause for so long I never hadone.
Um.
So that I know what you meanMadeleine, about, I guess what
may have changed is it feelsmore possible now to get
(30:07):
something published, but alsoI'm, I don't know how to write
for an intended audience anyway,and I don't know how I would
even do that.
So I'm, I feel very lucky andfortunate that my brain doesn't
do that, that I can justcontinue following the heat.
And writing out the ideas that Ijust call into me, regardless of
(30:28):
what may happen to them.
And I think as well personally,not having a second book or two
book deal also helps me withthat because I just feel that
it's very freeing for me.
And I know some people out theremight just find that quite
terrifying.
But for me, I, I, I really lovethat freedom.
Tina Strachan (30:44):
Mm-hmm.
Natasha Rai (30:45):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (30:46):
Yeah.
That's a good place to be.
Natasha Rai (30:47):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I guess it's kind of bitdifferent.
For me, because I'm just, I'mjust gonna answer this question.
Yeah, no.
Answer it.
Yeah, go for it.
Um, a bit, a bit different forme because I knew I had those, I
had the three books I had towrite, um, but they were all
written before I.
Book one was released anyway, sothat was, so that's probably the
(31:09):
same sort of thing, like I justwrote them in the style that,
you know, and the spirit of, um,the first book.
Uh, but yeah, I always, I'vebeen writing other books as well
and I've, yeah, just sort ofbeen, I.
Writing what's been coming to meas well.
So I try not to think too muchabout the, how it was sell and
all those sorts of things.
(31:30):
That can come later, I guess.
But life writing in the heat,Madeleine, yeah, just writing it
where the heat is and whateverhappens external to that.
Once it's finished and it'soutta my control, you know, in
in, in the land of, you know,acquisitions and selling in and
all that sort of thing, then.
That'll be what it'll be, Ithink.
Yeah.
We're
Natasha Rai (31:50):
such healthy, well adjusted writers,
Tina Strachan (31:52):
aren't we?
Madeleine Cleary (31:53):
Yes.
It's taken a while, I think aswell.
And it's not even, um, thepressure, I, I mean, we all
probably put ourselves under alot of pressure, um, to do well,
and it's not even you, you don'teven want your book to do well
for you.
You want your book to do wellfor all the people that have
worked so hard on it and aroundit.
Mm-hmm.
(32:13):
Yeah.
And so I definitely feel, Idefinitely felt that I think in
the lead up and I wanted towrite a book for my follow up
that will, you know, that Ithink, and this is a hard thing
to say, but that will do wellbecause, well, you know, you
just feel.
You wanna justify all thatexpense and time and effort, not
(32:38):
just for me.
Mm-hmm.
And so once you, yeah, when youare, when you do know it's going
to be published, you've got, youdo feel that weight, I think,
and I think that's unreasonableto put that on yourself.
Because like we were sayingearlier, so much of it is
outside of your control.
If it doesn't do well from asales perspective, it doesn't
mean that it's because youdidn't do all that you could.
(33:02):
'cause I'm sure everybody who'sputting a book out in the world
has done everything could.
So that's been a lesson for meto learn, to not put that
pressure on myself.
And I definitely had a lot ofsleepless nights,
Tina Strachan (33:10):
I think, thinking about that.
Mm-hmm.
That's hard.
And enjoy not having thatdeadline as well.
Like I know you're saying somepeople would freak out about not
having a second book signed, buthaving a deadline does
absolutely change things, Ithink.
Mm-hmm.
Just knowing that it's there andeven subconsciously,
Madeleine Cleary (33:30):
you
Tina Strachan (33:30):
know, um.
It's just rushes things a littlebit like the natural process
that you would've probably gonethrough anyway, that's what I
found with my last one.
Um, my last book anyway was, um,I went through probably all the
same processes that you wouldnormally, except I had to
condense it and.
It all happens, you know?
(33:50):
'cause you do naturally, youthrow away words and naturally
you, you write off on a tangentand go whoop and have to bring
it back in and, and, or youwrite down one path that's not
leading in the right direction.
And that just happens naturally.
Mm-hmm.
When you write.
But when you've got such a shortamount of time, you're conscious
of trying not to do that.
But you almost still have to doit anyway as the process to get
(34:11):
from A to B.
Yeah.
Like it's just what you have todo.
So then you're trying to do itquickly and then you're not
sure.
And I think you second guessyourself and yeah, I found it
really.
Tricky, um, in the last time gotthere in the end, but it was
just, everything was justcondensed.
Instead of putting it down for aweek, it was like, no, pick it
back up again tomorrow morningand keep trying to find that
solution.
So
Madeleine Cleary (34:32):
in the end, and I think it's really common,
I think so many of our day BooCrew have.
It's the two book deals.
Mm.
And they've been trying to writeand edit while also doing
publicity.
For one.
It, it's a lot of, it's a, it'sit's intense while, and a lot of
them have families and, and workcommitments as well.
Trying to balance all thosethings.
It is, yeah.
It can, it's a
Madeleine Cleary (2) (34:50):
lot.
It's a lot.
Madeleine Cleary (34:51):
Yeah.
Susan Joy-Lu (34:56):
Nana Crackles is no ordinary Nana.
She spreads joy and coloreverywhere she goes.
Even on her way to fetch bananasat home, she always knows
exactly what everything needs.
But what will she do when shefinds a friend in Need?
(35:18):
A delightful debut aboutkindness and community.
Nana Crackles is the brand newdebut picture, book written and
illustrated by me, Susan Joy Lu,published by the wonderful team
at Scholastic Nana.
Crackles is one fabulous,feisty, and fiercely kind.
(35:43):
Nana with a serious love for herfavorite food, bananas.
Filled with humor and heart.
The story of Nana cracklesdefies stereotypes and shows how
this Nana takes care of thosearound her in her own unique
way.
Going to extreme andentertaining lengths to put
(36:05):
others first and to spread joyas she goes.
We see the impact of small actsof kindness.
And how a community can cometogether to meet everyone's
needs and have a lot of fun inthe process.
Nana crackles and I would liketo thank Tina for the
(36:26):
opportunity to introduce you tothis completely Banana story on
this episode of the Book Dealpodcast.
Nana by Susan Joy-Lu is out now.
Happy reading.
Madeleine Cleary (36:45):
Why can't we all just go on retreats and just
spend a whole week, just exactly
Natasha Rai (36:50):
all that lovely time.
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (36:52):
Lovely.
Natasha Rai (36:52):
Just a week.
Oh yeah, let's do two.
Tina Strachan (36:55):
Let's do a month in France.
Maybe that, that would also benice.
Okay.
Natasha, I think it's you.
Okay.
Yeah.
And your question is
Natasha Rai (37:04):
for Madeleine.
Madeleine.
Okay.
Was the experience how youexpected and or planned for, and
if not, what was unexpected?
Madeleine Cleary (37:16):
Yeah, that, this was my question actually,
and I didn't even plan myresponse to it.
Um.
I don't think it was what Iexpected.
I don't think, and I don't thinkyou can plan for it.
I think, I mean, I'm a planner.
I think we all are, you know,type A women like to be
organized and plan for thingsand, and I, I don't know.
I, I, I tried to do everything Icould, but I was not expecting
(37:41):
the incredible social mediaresponse on the day of release.
I completely underestimated howI.
Intense.
It would be when the book wasreleased on the day of release.
And I'd gone into work that day,uh, into the office and that was
a really stupid decision.
'cause I thought, oh, well thebook's not even gonna be out in
(38:02):
the bookshops.
There's nothing I can do.
I may as well just go to workand that will help me, you know,
um, I won't be just staring atmy phone.
But then I missed out on so muchbecause everyone's on there and
commenting and then you feeloverwhelmed.
A after work on the train home.
I'm just trying to like, likeeverything quickly and not take
it all in.
And so I think that wasunexpected.
I think the other thing is thatso much good stuff happens.
(38:25):
I.
But you're so exhausted andyou're in, you're doing it all
in a really condensed amount oftime.
I really wish you could spreadall these incredible moments out
into a long, like six monthperiod.
So then you can really justreflect and take in and and
appreciate the moment.
But because everything is socondensed, you're just like
(38:45):
quickly going from things tothings and, and.
It's all so amazing, but I thinknow I'm gonna be able to step
back and take a step back andjust reflect and enjoy and enjoy
all those little moments.
So, yeah, I think next time I'mgonna not work over that period.
Madeleine Cleary (2) (39:03):
At least not that day.
Please.
Madeleine Cleary (39:04):
Not the day.
Not the day.
Yeah.
So what about, what about youguys?
Maybe Tina?
Yeah, I
Tina Strachan (39:10):
agree with you, Madeleine.
That first day I was.
Shocked and surprised and I knewhow supportive the writer's
community is anyway.
And our day, our kid that day,boo Crew and our day Boo crew.
And, um, it, but you know,'causeit takes time.
Like I know I, um, I put timeaside like, you know, and I make
(39:30):
a conscious effort to sharepeople's, um, share people's
announcements and their bookreleases.
And I, you know, commenting andliking.
And I, and I try to make aneffort because I know how that.
Feels when people do it for, forme, and I love it.
You feel so supportive, but I,I, there's never enough time to,
to do every, you know,everything that you wanna do
(39:51):
and, and share everybody's, youknow, good news and things like
that in their highs.
But, um, I.
Yeah, so I, I, but I was stilljust blown away on that first
day of, you know, people justsharing that it's book release
day.
And I was like, wow, like youare, you've paid attention and
you're, you are happy aboutthis.
And you know, and then reviewscoming in just absolute blown
(40:12):
away.
Madeleine Cleary (40:13):
And part of the community, you feel, you
feel that community sense, Ithink even if it's online, but I
mean, in reality too, like inreal life.
But yeah.
What about you, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (40:22):
Yeah, I agree with what you've both said about that
first day or the first few dayseven after release.
I was really surprised.
And the other thing I'm reallysurprised about and I realized
this says more about me thananyone else, so I'm caveating
it.
For some reason, I imagined thatI would be having to talk about
my novel in front of reallyhostile people.
I dunno why like that they wouldbe coming to like, tell me how a
(40:45):
crap it is and why did I writeit?
Yeah.
So in my head I kept coming upwith all of these things I could
say about I.
Why I wrote it and why it's, youknow, it's good.
So justifying yourself.
I know.
It's so weird, isn't it?
Because even if you just tookout my weirdness out of that,
thank, why would anyone wastetheir time?
(41:05):
Someone else, if you enjoyedthis episode to the pod.
So you can receive updates assoon as, actually, to be honest,
that was unexpected surprise.
And I had people in the roomalso who were smiling and kind
and generous and were there tosupport me, and I was like, oh
yeah, you don't, you haven'tcome here to tell me what a
horrible job I've done.
Oh, it's, that's,
(41:27):
I know.
It's so weird.
Like I know it's, that'sprobably something I need to
think about at some point, butyeah.
Have
Tina Strachan (41:34):
you seen that happen though elsewhere?
I.
Natasha Rai (41:37):
And is where it's come from.
So I think, yeah, I have seenit, but I've realized there
weren't authors writing fiction.
So I've seen that happen atmaybe panels where people are
talking more about ideas ormaybe political ideas where
they've been really not abused,but there's a very hostile
people in the crowd going, youknow, Bala, how can you talk say
that, or I'm off that, whatever.
(41:58):
So that's, I guess what I had inmind when I was like, oh my God,
that's gonna happen.
Tina Strachan (42:03):
I was like, I'm gonna have all the elephant
keepers of the world emailingme, telling me.
That, that is not theappropriate, um, substrate to
keep an elephant on.
I just, I did so much likebackground checking and husband
dream manual research and totry, and I was like sending
(42:27):
diagrams to the illustrator, belike, can you make it?
This is what we do now and hasto be safe and all those sorts
of things, but not one emailyet.
So.
I'm
Natasha Rai (42:39):
an
Tina Strachan (42:39):
elephant keeper.
Yeah.
Natasha Rai (42:41):
But it's so interesting where our minds go,
isn't it like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tina Strachan (42:46):
Oh gosh.
Okay.
Yes.
Could be a lot worse.
So far so good.
Um, I've forgotten whose turn itis.
I think I just asked Madeleinethat.
Okay.
So I'm, I, I am confused becauseI feel like I've.
And I don't have a question.
You do?
Uh, right here in the chat.
Oh, brilliant.
Okay.
Professional.
(43:08):
Um,
Madeleine Cleary (43:09):
and it's for Natasha.
Okay.
Alright, Natasha, here we go.
What is your least favoritething to do when it comes to
publicity?
Natasha Rai (43:19):
This is actually my question.
Um, I have to say social media.
Only because I'm not very goodat it.
Not because I don't think thatpeople, you know, use it for
very good reasons.
It's just, I find it, I neverknow whether I should do a post
or a story or if it's even worthposting.
And sometimes I just bore myselfand I'm like, well, if I'm bored
(43:42):
by it, why would anyone elsewanna read it?
Um, and I just, I love yourposts.
You do fantastic views.
Oh, well thank you.
I didn't know that.
I mean, I don't, I actuallyreally like posting about other
books.
It's more that self.
Publicity that I'm just like, ohGod, do I sound like I'm really
up myself?
Why?
Why would I post that?
So I, that's my least favoritething.
(44:02):
My, even though the questiondoesn't ask it, my favorite
thing of all is speaking topeople, um, at events or at
festivals where we're justhaving a really lovely chat
about books and reading andother writers about craft and
that their books.
Yeah, so social media's probablymy least favorite'cause I'm not
very good at it.
Madeleine Cleary (44:19):
Do you think it's the Australian toll poppy
syndrome as well?
In on social media, you know,like talking about yourself.
I don't know, like we are scaredto, to
Tina Strachan (44:30):
do it.
I don't know.
Some people seem to be able todo it really well.
Yeah.
Um, it's definitely been a newthing for me because even on my
personal, like I had an, I havea personal Instagram account
that's separate to the authorone, which has one post on it.
Um, and I, and my face, like myFacebook, I don't post on.
(44:52):
I had think a post of the ages.
So, um, but I, it helped for mehaving an author one, a separate
one that I felt comfortablewith, um, kinda like a different
persona and I felt like it'sokay to Same do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
On there.
Um, and people want to know,people wanna know what you're up
to.
It's a bit weird at first.
(45:12):
I think it's a bit easier now'cause you have a bit more
fodder out there to play with.
Like you, you've just gotnatural reviews and things like
that that you can post.
Whereas before it's um, it's alittle bit different.
But, um,
Madeleine Cleary (45:23):
and I think if people have put time into
reviews, like it makes sense forus to share that.
Like, you know, people havespent so much time crafting.
Yes.
Yeah, that's true.
Yes.
And don't they make them lookbeautiful?
Do, do.
The least we can do is to sharethat.
It's not in the spirit of, oh,look at me like this is, I've
got a five star review.
(45:43):
It's like,
Natasha Rai (45:44):
yeah, I think that is a really good point because I
don't, for me personally, that'snot what I don't like sharing.
It's more like if I get somenews or I have to, I don't know,
talk about the book in some waythat's comes from me.
I'm always like, oh God,
Madeleine Cleary (45:58):
but make it about other people.
Maybe.
Then Natasha like, yeah, yeah,you know, you could, you could
say, oh.
I've got this great piece ofnews like, you know, I think
I've done that recently.
Like, oh, I, I felt, I ha, Iunderstand Natasha.
'cause I'm like, oh people mustbe so fricking sick of me now
'cause it's just
Natasha Rai (46:15):
been so much.
Which is, which is so weird,Madeleine.
'cause you posted about startingyour second book and I was so
excited for you.
Like, I, you know, I was like,oh my God, that's so
Madeleine Cleary (46:24):
exciting.
Natasha Rai (46:24):
You,
Madeleine Cleary (46:24):
you have this internal dialogue.
You're like, oh, people must beso bored now.
But then you, then you talk andpeople are like, no, no, no,
this is, we, we wanna know howyou're going and what all, like,
we're, we're here for you.
Like, this is great.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but yeah, I've tried tolike make, like, you know, shout
out to the booksellers and shoutout to the, to the, the
reviewers.
And the bloggers and like allthose amazing people in this
industry to make it about them.
(46:45):
Because without them.
We wouldn't be able to do whatwe do.
That's
true.
And so I'm trying to do thatevery occasion to make it less
like, oh, look at me.
You know,
look at all the
cool things.
Um, what's the favorite thingabout publicity?
Oh, that's, I'm the same.
Oh, you're the same?
Okay.
So all the same.
Yeah.
(47:06):
I mean, it's, it's, that's, youknow, when something can be
really good and really bad atthe same time.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's social media because you're
getting all this amazingvalidation.
But it's also, it, it, yeah.
You just don't know what youshould be doing all the time.
And if people are judging you.
Yeah.
(47:26):
What about you, Tina?
I know, and I'm looking at thetime like, oh my God, we're,
we're, we're almost through it.
We, we, don't we?
That's all our questions.
Oh.
What's your least favoritething,
Tina Strachan (47:36):
Tina?
Um, um, what was it aboutpublicity?
Hmm.
Um, yeah, I'd probably saysocials as well.
Right.
Um, it takes me a while to do asocial media post sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and sometimes I, like Ihave, I actually have the, I
like.
Ideas of things that I want topost.
(47:58):
Like I was just going to do abig reviewer's post, which I
will do.
It's my mental note to self todo today.
Um, because yeah, there's stillreviews coming up for Nikki and
the missing key now, and I just,there's a beautiful one in the
Magpies magazine last.
In the May issue, um, by BrentonCullen.
(48:19):
And honestly, he just mo wrotethe most beautiful words and I'm
so appreciative of that.
Um, and I guess that's probablymy most favorite thing about pub
publicity is reading those,reading people's words, where
they've actually said in theirown words, you know, they've
read the book and then they'vesaid in their own words.
Good things about it and you'rejust like, oh, that's so nice
(48:40):
because you know, you're soclose to it and you could
probably never think thosethings about your own book.
I mean, I know I can't, I mean,you know, you think this is a
good book and that's enjoyableand the kids will like it, but
to have people put their ownspin on it is pretty incredible.
Okay.
Madeleine Cleary (48:53):
Tina post that so we can read it.
Oh my, oh no, that's just
Tina Strachan (48:57):
thinking.
I just got the copy of it, so Iwill.
Yeah, I definitely will.
It's
lovely.
It just so lovely.
Yeah.
Oh.
All right.
Well we should wrap up Quicklynote, that was, that was, that
was really
Natasha Rai (49:09):
fun.
I love those questions.
This is
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:11):
really good.
Do it again because my systemwas really good too.
Tina Strachan (49:15):
I worked really
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:16):
system, totally worked
Tina Strachan (49:17):
because you know, it's even better.
I have like this one leftovername and I can't work out where
it's going from.
So, um,
Madeleine Cleary (49:25):
yeah.
Well, and if anyone hasquestions for us for next time
as well, uh, just let us know.
Send us a message on socials.
We'll that,
can we do a super quick, um, top tip each on
the fly.
Okay.
Top
Madeleine Cleary (2) (49:38):
tip, each.
Madeleine, Natasha, well like,stop.
Natasha Rai (49:43):
Dumb.
Top, top tip about anything likepublishing related.
Tina Strachan (49:49):
Yeah, my top tip, um, actually comes from, from
another author.
I borrowed this when it doescome to socials.
Um, you don't, don't worryactually.
Or put pressure on yourself topost all the time.
You kinda don't have to,especially if you don't feel
comfortable.
Even Catherine Collette's gotsome really interesting, um,
tips on this at the moment abouttry trying to make it your own,
(50:09):
um, if, and if that feels morecomfortable to you, but also,
but just be there still and havea presence when it comes to, you
know, maybe commenting on otherpeople's.
Uh, posts and showing support orsharing, and that's just as
important because it's still,you still have a presence there.
Um, so if you don't know what topost and you're a little bit
stuck, just get in there withsome likes and some shares and
some comments.
(50:30):
And that's, um, probably evenmore important because it's
showing support for your writercommunity.
Mm,
Natasha Rai (50:36):
I like that.
Um, okay, I've got one.
So I've, I'm directly stealingthis from a panel I went to
yesterday at Sydney WritersFestival, but I liked it so much
that I'm like, right, I need toshare this love.
So, um, Michelle Brasier, whowas on this panel said that she
has an evidence log.
What she does is every time shegets feedback from her friends,
(50:57):
colleagues, peers.
Even reviews that are positive,she literally writes them down
in this book.
I love that.
And when she has the doubts andwhen she has the imposter
syndrome, or she thinks she'swriting something terrible, she
looks at her evidence log thatspeaks otherwise
Tina Strachan (51:13):
love isn't.
Isn't that great?
Yes.
You know, you could also putthat on a poster or something on
your computer or where youwrite.
Yes, exactly.
Natasha Rai (51:20):
And you just look at it like,
Tina Strachan (51:22):
no, I'm good.
Madeleine Cleary (51:23):
I'm good.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yes.
That is amazing.
I love that so much.
Me too.
Um, I don't really have it.
I mean, other than following theheat with your writing at the
moment, I think because I'vebeen to so many beautiful book
events recently and hosted bylike amazing independent
bookshops, go, go to supportyour indie bookshops.
(51:46):
Buy books from them, be part ofthat community, engage with them
attending these events, likeit's it, they're so, so
interesting.
I think hearing from otherwriters like, look Natasha, you
went yesterday, Sydney WritersFestival and got a great tip.
So I think exactly you'reemerging writer.
Go and enjoy and be part of thecommunity.
Great.
Top tips.
This has been
really fun.
(52:07):
It has.
Yeah.
Let's do it again soon.
Yeah.
Thanks everyone.
Thank you.
Bye.
Tina Strachan (2) (52:18):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new S drop and to keep up
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