Literary festivals, pitching yourself for events (and podcasts!), new books and the special art of a timeline
In this episode of the Book Deal Podcast, hosts Tina Strachan and Madeleine Cleary dive into lively discussions about their writing processes and experiences. They reveal insights on writing timelines, the importance of mapping them out carefully, and how timelines can impact the narrative structure. The episode highlights the excitement and challenges involved in attending and speaking at literary festivals, emphasising the significance of networking and building community within the literary world. Tina promotes the upcoming Currumbin Crime Writers Festival, while Madeleine advises checking out Literary Listings for festival information. Engaging and informative, this episode is a must-listen for aspiring authors and literary enthusiasts.
Festival lists in Australia
Our Debut in the Spotlight is author Sarah Lane with Surprise Shark (Affirm Press, 2025), illustrated by Patrick Corrigan.
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:43 19th Century Vibes and Writing Influences
03:35 Madeleine's New Book Announcement
05:18 Deep in Edits and Upcoming Releases
06:47 The Importance of Timelines in Writing
12:26 Upcoming Events and Workshops
15:05 Surprise Shark: A Delightful New Picture Book
16:33 Williamstown Literary Festival Highlights
17:01 Sex, Love, and Taboo: A Festival Experience
18:30 Meeting Literary Heroes in the Green Room
19:39 The Importance of Networking and Community Building
23:39 Pitching Yourself to Festivals
28:06 The Value of Paid Festival Appearances
30:25 Upcoming Currumbin Crime Writers Festival
32:25 Top Tips and Recommendations
33:42 Conclusion and Farewell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tina Strachan (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring stories,the authors behind your favorite
books.
No matter what stage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a time.
Madeleine Cleary (00:29):
The book Deal podcast acknowledges the
traditional owners of the landand waters, which it's recorded
on and pays respect to theirelders past, present, and
emerging.
Happy Sunday, Tina.
Happy Sunday, Madeleine.
You're like, wait, what's yourname?
You're deep in edits.
(00:50):
Oh
Tina Strachan (00:51):
no.
I was, I was gonna start offwith, um, good day to you, lady
Madeleine.
Um, because your last message tome was very 19th century and I
was really hoping that you weregonna bring the 19th century
talk with you.
Madeleine Cleary (01:08):
How do you do, Tina?
I hope that, uh, you are fairingwell.
Today indeed explore and stay.
But why do you have 19th centuryvocab at the moment?
Made?
I'm, oh, I'm just so deep.
I can't, what was the message Isent you again?
Um, I should read it out.
You, you were trying toschedule, uh, our session today
(01:29):
and I said I have rolled out ofbed this morning and I've just
been hitting the writing withoutcare for my appearance.
So.
Tina Strachan (01:38):
Very proper.
Um, and I love that, that it'sthat your write your, your
writing is seeping into youreveryday words.
Madeleine Cleary (01:46):
Does, does middle grade writing seep into
your everyday words when you'redeep into in the writing?
Tina Strachan (01:52):
Um, not really because, um, yes, mine's quite.
Prob, my words have seeped intoit, I think quite a lot.
But I do have a funny story inthat, um, there is a character
in book two, in book threemm-hmm.
Of the Wilder Zoo Series thatI'm writing.
And, uh, there's a Scottishcharacter, oh, I have to say.
(02:19):
At the time when I was writingbook two, I was binge watching
Outlander.
I dunno if you've seenOutlander.
But it's Scottish, it's inScotland and there's these
Strachan accents and um, to thepoint.
So I was binge watching it tothe point like where in my head
my thoughts were even a littlebit in Scottish.
(02:40):
Like that's all that I couldhear.
And so when I started writing Iwas like, this created this new
character and he just had to beScottish'cause I
Madeleine Cleary (02:48):
cause of Outlander.
So there is a character in yourbook that is Scottish because of
Outlander?
Yes.
Oh, that is the best.
Yeah.
I just
Tina Strachan (02:54):
wanted to write that.
Madeleine Cleary (02:56):
That's when your everyday life seeps into
your writing, which is common,isn't it?
Yes.
Anyway.
That's fantastic.
Even in middle grade.
I love that.
But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm deep in,um, 19th century Melbourne at
the moment, which is a fun placeto be really.
It's a nice escapism.
I think that's why I enjoyhistorical fiction.
(03:16):
'cause it is, it is a bit of anescape.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not sure of times weresimpler back then, but certainly
very interesting for some,maybe.
For others, not so much.
No, that's right.
That's right.
So it's been good.
Um, um, progress tracker, ohgosh.
Should I say it then?
I'll have to be kept to account.
Yeah, do
Tina Strachan (03:35):
it.
But I was gonna say this is, um,this might be some exciting news
for fans of Madeleine Clery andthe Butterfly Women.
Madeleine Cleary (03:41):
Are you
Tina Strachan (03:41):
talking, are you sort of, are we hearing it here
first?
Madeleine?
Is this.
Is this a new book that you'rewriting?
Madeleine Cleary (03:48):
It it perhaps this is the first, well I have
spoken about it in a couple ofother record things, but this
might be the first one that goesto Eric about it.
Yes.
So I am writing a new book.
Uh, it's set 15 years after theButterfly Women.
It is set in Melbourne again.
Um, it definitely expands out ofLittle Lawn.
So for those who've read TheButterfly Women, it's.
There's lots of very familiarlocations in Melbourne that my,
(04:11):
I'm taking my characters on to.
So it's expanding that loveletter to the city that people
have described it as.
And it's a lot of fun.
So I am up to, as of today,25,000 words a down.
Wow.
Which that's a good place to be,isn't it?
It is, it is.
It's a really good place to be.
Um, 30,000 I think is the pointwhere generally for me.
(04:36):
I'll either stop or keep going.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm almost at that point, andI thi but this one, this story's
feeling really good and, andjust like I get, I'm getting the
same feelings, it's feelingspecial and important to me.
Mm-hmm.
And I've got a lot of momentumbehind it.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm hoping that continues.
Mm-hmm.
And you're excited to sit downand keep going.
So excited.
(04:57):
I love that feeling.
I love it.
My brain, I'm just completelyabsorbed right now.
Um, so good.
I've also, it's coincided with abit of a quieter period for me
in terms of events.
So for the last couple of weeksI've just been, and it's also
really cold in Melbourne, so Iliterally have just been
huddling down and writing andthat's been really fun.
So that's nice.
(05:17):
What about you?
You are deep in edits.
Tina Strachan (05:20):
I'm deep in edits.
Yes.
Speaking of writing, I'm deep inedits for book three.
Which doesn't come out untilnext year.
Madeleine Cleary (05:25):
Um, but it's, you've got a bit of a break then
after you've got, uh, book twocoming out in July and then, uh,
next week, Madeleine?
I don't, is it next week?
Next week, is it?
Oh, no, it's the
Tina Strachan (05:36):
week after next.
Sorry.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Week after next.
I, I don't feel very preparedfor it.
It's just, it's, it is very, Ican say it's very different.
July is literally, yeah, I know.
In 10 days,
Madeleine Cleary (05:48):
so I know it's scary.
What date does it come out onthe, the 1st of July.
July 2nd.
July 2nd.
We'll mark that date in yourcalendars, everybody.
Yes.
July 2nd.
Sneak from the storm.
We'll hit the
Tina Strachan (05:58):
shells July 2nd.
And yes, I, everything is sobusy.
Like I've got so many workshops,uh, coming up and it's, yeah,
there's just a lot to do andedits.
Edits always just seem to comein at the.
They're really busy times,doesn't it?
Is it a structural edit or is ita copy edit?
Oh, well it's the type set edit.
Oh, so you know what it looks,looks when they send you what it
(06:20):
looks like.
Printed on a page.
So it hasn't got theillustrations in there yet, so
they're still gonna have to dosome fiddling around and moving
things around, um, to fit theillustrations in.
Which is good because I've, um,ma made quite a few additional
sort of edits and changes.
'cause it's been a while sinceI've seen it.
Madeleine Cleary (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
Um,
Tina Strachan (06:37):
I think it's probably been like six months.
So that's a good break.
That's Yeah.
To then look at it and go with afresh pair of eyes.
Um, the biggest thing that Ifound.
Actually, and I, I had thisissue when I was writing it, it
as a bit of a timelinesituation.
I dunno if you've like Yeah.
I think'cause the timelines arequite tight in this book and
(07:00):
it's, you know, one of the mainissues is that something's due
at a particular date, you know?
Mm.
So I sort of have to almost workback from that.
And there's a few things thathappened in that time that has
to happen on particular days.
And I think at one point.
It kind of happens over aboutthe space of a week, and at one
point, you know, I had to changethe timeline, change the days,
(07:20):
and so I, I can see a little bitof that sung over and, you know,
in this, um, type set copy thatI've got now, which I'm glad to
have caught.
Oh,
Madeleine Cleary (07:30):
that's good.
That's also frightening, isn'tit, when you Also
Tina Strachan (07:33):
frightening.
Madeleine Cleary (07:34):
But I, how do you map out your timeline?
I'm so
Tina Strachan (07:38):
glad you asked.
If you have time, and this iswhy, once you've done, once
you've done it and it is reallyimportant okay.
To map your timeline.
I didn't know this, so I readmy, my first manuscript that I
wrote, I just completely wrotethe whole thing and it was fine
and, and timewise, timelinewise.
(08:00):
There was no other major issuesexcept so I just naturally just
had it.
Sarah Lane (08:04):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (08:04):
Fine.
Like it was just working fine.
But I don't think the particulardays mattered.
It probably didn't matter if itwas in, you know, a couple of
days here or there, but when Istarted mapping it out and using
story grid, the story grid, wego, okay, story grid, as we
know, everyone knows how we, howI love this.
Um, at the end.
So it had like even when I firstsaw story good, I was like, this
(08:26):
is outta control.
This is so full on.
I'm like, I'm not gonna map eachthe time of each scene and how
long it starts and when itfinished, it ended.
But I can tell you now when youdo that, you do realize that
silly, some kind of like sillymistakes get through.
Like at one point I realize thatthey had been driving in a car
nonstop for 26 hours, which canever happen.
(08:46):
You do have to stop.
No one's got 26 hours worth offuel in the tank.
You know, just one of those,just one of those things that
you just sort of don't reallythink about and they, yeah, so I
just, so it was really handy topick that up and admittedly I
didn't, um, I did, I had toactually do just the, I had to
sort of map out the time foreach.
(09:07):
Chapter again now, not as, notlike start and fish, but at
least the days and if it was themorning or the afternoon,
because it really does make adifference when you're looking
at such a tight timeframe.
So,
Madeleine Cleary (09:17):
yeah, and also like external things, like where
the sun's positioned in the skyand all that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Oh.
Morning, afternoon, or whatseason it is.
Maybe it's not as necessary.
In Queensland seasons don't meanthis much.
There's storm season and there'sstorm season.
That's right.
Wild season.
Well, there you could be.
Yeah, that's true.
So I guess that, that, that's
Tina Strachan (09:37):
interesting.
Madeleine Cleary (09:38):
Mm-hmm.
So you would recommend it,
Tina Strachan (09:41):
um, I think if you have time after you've
written a manuscript, even justa, your zero draft to position
yourself.
'cause sometimes you can getyourself like in a really tight
or a really.
You can create a really bigissue, I think with your
timelines
Madeleine Cleary (09:56):
you can.
And um, so when I submitted theButterfly Women and it was
accepted, Ruby then asked me formy timeline.
Oh, oh really?
They asked me to send through.
The timeline for her, her nextstructural way to read.
And I was like, eek, I don't, I,I'm a chaos writer.
(10:20):
I don't have any timeline.
And she says, it's, and I sortof went, oh, I'll have to put
one together for you.
And she said it's reallyhelpful, particularly in
historical fiction, to havetimelines.
Tina Strachan (10:29):
Mm-hmm.
Um,
Madeleine Cleary (10:30):
I think any, any anything partic and crime
and all sorts.
And so I yeah.
Had to retrospectively go backand create a timeline.
Mm-hmm.
The other useful thing that Rubydid was put together, um, kind
of a map of the chapters for meand the parts to see, you know,
a summary of which of eachchapter, where the clues come
(10:52):
in, and the points that she didup this amazing wow shape.
Um, which, you know, because shejust obviously knew that I
didn't have anything.
She's like, oh, I'm gonna haveto do this.
Yeah.
So I guess for emerging writers,it, it, I think it's now I do
timelines ahead.
Like I've actually done timelinenow, or every time I come across
something where I go, oh, thishappened on this date, or This
(11:14):
person was born in this year, sothat would make them this, this
age.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's a thing.
They would've had this person atthis age.
And I now just, I have a table.
Randomly in some random Worddocument that I just add to.
And so that way Ruby, I can justgive it to Ruby in the future.
Tina Strachan (11:33):
She's gonna be
Madeleine Cleary (11:33):
so
Tina Strachan (11:33):
happy with that.
Madeleine Cleary (11:34):
I know, I know.
I think
Tina Strachan (11:36):
I feel really good doing that.
Yeah.
You're such a star pupil.
Um, now that is a really good,that is a top tip too.
Go through and check yourtimelines.
Yeah.
Uh.
Maybe after you've finished,perhaps, or at the same time if
you like.
But yeah, it is really helpful,especially if you do have an
actual ticking clock kind ofthing.
Yes.
As your storyline.
Yes.
Um, you can't, yeah.
(11:57):
You need to know when to applythe kind of the pressure and
everything, and you can't dothat too far out and you can't.
Build it up and then, you know,drop it back down.
You've gotta keep that pressureon and the momentum going.
Exactly.
So
Madeleine Cleary (12:09):
really
Tina Strachan (12:09):
important.
So, uh, timelines
Madeleine Cleary (12:11):
and your publisher might ask if for
emerging writers who are Yes,they may ask you for your
timeline.
So be prepared based our people,
Tina Strachan (12:19):
we both said the same thing.
Madeleine Cleary (12:22):
Oh, hilarious.
But you, yeah.
So I'm deep in edit, so that'skind of, yes.
Okay.
Tell us about your eventsthough.
Like what, what, what have yougot upcoming for book two?
I think I did last timeactually.
Did you?
I think,
Tina Strachan (12:33):
yeah.
How about, do you wanna justremind everybody?
I did.
And then, and I said I'm gonnaput it all up on, um, on Inster
and I, you know what?
I have been so busy that Ihaven't totally got round to it,
but I've started and um, so Ihave a couple of library events
mm-hmm.
Up here.
Gold Coast Libraries.
Uh, in the school holidays Ihave an event at Quip Brown Fox,
which is a, um.
(12:55):
Writing workshop.
Mm-hmm.
Um, which is all about writingwild characters.
Mm-hmm.
And settings.
Um, and I also have an event atwhere the Wild Things are in
West End, in Brisbane, and thatis a, uh, Wilder Zoo Crew
workshop.
(13:15):
So kids come along and test yourskills and see if you can make
it as a Wilder Zoo Crew member.
I'm gonna, we've got somelittle.
You know, wildlife trivia andwe're gonna do a little mock vet
exam on, on a rescued, I'm doingbunny ears.
It's a stuffed animal, um,rescued animal.
And, um, yeah, I've got a fewmore things and I'm just getting
(13:36):
the final details on, um, forAugust.
So, yeah.
And
Madeleine Cleary (13:39):
so where can people find all these events and
booking links?
Tina Strachan (13:43):
Yeah, on uh, my Instagram at the moment.
So yes, just at, um, Tina, justsearch Tina Strachan.
And, um, you shall find me inyour link.
You link in
Madeleine Cleary (13:53):
your bio or is that where
Tina Strachan (13:55):
Oh, yes, the, so the link is on in the bio there.
That's probably the best placeand.
Very soon.
I should have them on thewebsite as well.
Madeleine Cleary (14:02):
Brilliant.
Keep an eye out for that.
That's exciting.
And all in Queensland.
And then you'll be down inMelbourne as well.
Tina Strachan (14:08):
Yeah, end of August.
Uh, book launch for Nika in thestore.
Book two at Melbourne Zoo.
So, okay.
Tickets will be so it's gonna besuper fun, but tickets will be
quite limited, um, for that.
Unless you've got a pass to thezoo, which I know lots of people
do who have kids.
And then you could just come inand
Madeleine Cleary (14:24):
wait.
Am I.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're on VIP list, so I get,I'm one of the VIPs.
Yes.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (14:30):
You got an automatic ticket.
Fantastic.
Uh, no, but that's gonna besuper fun.
Madeleine Cleary (14:35):
Who's, who's, who's in your in convo partner
in Melbourne, CatherineCollette.
Oh, you should have asked me.
Tina.
Jealous Bloody clack, Catherine.
Always getting the good, thegood gigs.
Tina Strachan (14:50):
Well when you write your middle grade, um,
hey, I've been a
Madeleine Cleary (14:56):
middle grade reader before I've read.
Sarah Lane (15:05):
Hi, my name's Sarah Lane and I'm here to tell you
all about my debut picture bookSurprise Shark Illustrated by
the super talented PatrickCorrigan and published by the
beautiful team at Affirm Press.
It's hard to make friends whenyou're a shark, but this shark
has a foolproof plan for winningpeople over if only they'd stop
(15:26):
running away.
A surprising story about findingfriendship in the most unlikely
places.
Surprise Shark came about aftermy son had to rewrite the ending
to Whitney and Britney ChickenDivas during COVID Home
Learning.
And he put a shark in.
And I thought, how wonderfulthat in his mind, a shark could
just show up anywhere.
(15:47):
Kids' brains are the best.
And that got me thinking aboutthe most awkward, unlikely
scenarios in which a shark couldarrive and surprise shark was
born.
Surprise shark has beendescribed as delightfully,
energetic, and a joy to readaloud with fun, rhyme and cheeky
dialogue.
Shark defies stereotypes and isfull of humor and heart.
(16:11):
Thank you to Tina and the bookDeal podcast for the opportunity
to share Surprise Shark with youtoday.
Surprise Shark is out now and Ican't wait to share it with you.
Bye for now.
Tina Strachan (16:27):
Yeah, so I've had lots of friends.
I haven't attended too manyevents myself, but you've had a
busy weekend.
Madeleine Cleary (16:33):
Yes.
At a festival.
Fun.
Yeah.
So yesterday was, um, well it'sover this whole weekend
actually, the WilliamstownLiterary Festival in Victoria,
Willy Lit.
Um, and yeah, it was super fun.
Um, I did an event yesterdayafternoon.
It actually was a so solid outevent as well, which is very,
very cool.
Um, that's very cool.
So it was a packed room.
(16:53):
Um, yeah, it was in conversationwith.
An author called RochelleSiemienowicz, and she wrote a
book called Double Happiness.
Um, and the, the topic was Sex,love and Taboo, which is, oh,
that sounds so exciting, isn'ther?
Yeah.
Topic.
Our books are entirelydifferent, but Charlotte, so
Charlotte Guest, she's, um, anincredible book seller.
(17:15):
She's the store manager at BookBird in Geelong, and she, we, we
had met at STR to WritersFestival.
She's brilliant and she's abrilliant moderator.
I've heard this.
Yeah, she's incredible.
And so she facilitated theconversation and, um, her
questions just really, she foundall these amazing synergies
mm-hmm.
Between the books.
And I love that, that, you know,when your book is deeply read in
(17:38):
that way.
Um.
So it's a privilege, I think.
So we had a fantastic event andthen afterwards, um, so as
signing books, um, had a fan ofthe podcast come up, which is so
lovely.
Um, Georgie Foster, who's anemerging writer herself.
Um, so we had a good chat aboutthat.
(17:59):
And, um, yeah, had some like,just nice chats with readers,
which was really, really lovely.
Uh, so.
Uh, is there something veryenergetic and heartwarming about
writers festivals?
I'm not sure.
And it's, it's just, yeah, alittle bit different, I think,
because.
It just attracts a wholedifferent type of audience and
(18:19):
people can just float betweenevents and it's really cool.
And as a writer attending, it's,it's fun.
You get to go into the greenroom, which is really cool.
That sounds very exciting.
I was in there and I, I was toonervous, of course, um, to
approach them, but.
The first person I saw wasClaire Wright.
Mm-hmm.
Who wrote The Forgotten Rebelsof Eureka.
And I'm a massive fan and I justlike Star at her from the corner
(18:43):
for a while.
Really awkwardly.
Go and talk to her though.
No, I was too embarrassed.
I was like, oh, what am I?
And she's so smart andintelligent as well.
I don't even know how I wouldengage with someone like Claire
Wright.
And then the next person thatcame into the Green room was,
um, Kate Granville.
Again, and she was like, she'sso cute looking.
And I was like, I can't, I justdon't know what I could say to
(19:05):
someone as amazing and, andsmart as Kate Granville.
So I just, um, I hung out withmy crew.
So,
Tina Strachan (19:12):
yeah.
Experience though.
Sure
Madeleine Cleary (19:15):
there was people like,
Tina Strachan (19:15):
oh, that's Madeleine Cleary.
No, no.
May.
Okay, well maybe next year.
But that's an incredibleexperience.
All of it, like the green roomand especially, you know,
having, um, people come up andchat fans off the podcast, fans
off your book.
So you can see why festivals arehighly sought after for.
Authors.
Madeleine Cleary (19:35):
Yes, it's a great opportunity.
Emerging authors are very
Tina Strachan (19:37):
interested.
Madeleine Cleary (19:38):
It's, it is a good opportunity.
And if, and yeah, probably Ishould have gone up, but I was
hanging out, I was having greatchats with, um, Ali Parker, so
we got to hang out.
She's another fan of thepodcast.
And of course, um, I saw, um,Marion Taf was there, so she was
in conversation with GailHolmes.
Um, so it was nice to see someof our debut crew there.
I was gonna say,
Tina Strachan (19:57):
I saw lots of debut crew photos coming up all
over the socials.
I was feeling very jealous.
Madeleine Cleary (20:01):
Yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry.
But she could have you here,Tina.
But no, it was good.
It was so I was having lots ofengaged conversations with lots
of different people and, um,yeah, it, it is, it is fun.
They're diff it's difficult toget festivals and I think as a
debut writer, you can't reallyexpect to get any, like, if you
get one or two, like that'spretty amazing.
Um, because, you know, there's,there's so many amazing writers
(20:26):
out there and festivals.
Need to be able to draw a crowdand as an unknown quantity, you
are taking a risk on, on peoplelike us, I suppose.
So it's great that festivals aretaking the chances on debut
writers.
Um, but yeah, often it is, um,you know, the people who I've
(20:48):
met, I suppose in.
The two years that I've beenpart of this community and
networking and build, it's notreally networking, it's just
like community building, isn'tit?
Mm-hmm.
Um, that's helped.
Yeah.
Networking
Tina Strachan (20:59):
sounds like you're trying to sell something,
doesn't it?
I know, but it sounds it's notlike that at all, is it?
It's just, uh.
Yeah, it is building community,I think is a much better word
for it.
That's
Madeleine Cleary (21:11):
right, that's right.
And like for example, um, I, Idon't mind saying this.
Um, I met, um, EmilyWestmoreland, who's the director
of Willie Lip Festival at anevent that I attended with, um,
so Barbara Minton, who's thehistorian, she was in
conversation at.
Um, a, a, an event.
That book and paper inWilliamstown where the festivals
(21:33):
had organized like over a yearago, we got chatting at that
event.
Um, she asked about my book.
So I talked to her about thatand then, you know, that's how I
think I.
Having that connection with thedirector, she then remembers you
and your face and then, youknow, the invitation came along.
Um, and I've since found outtoo, like she's sort of, you
know, recommended to anotherfestival, a few of bus day
(21:55):
booths and said, you know, takea chance on these ones.
So it's amazing how.
When you put yourself out there,go to these events to meet these
people and hey, I should havelistened to my own vice and
probably gone up to ClaireWright and Kate Bel and
introduce myself.
But what it shows is that it ispart of this, you know, putting
you out there, out yourself outthere is important.
You get these kinds ofopportunities.
Tina Strachan (22:16):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, which, which.
Is true for lots of otherthings.
Mm-hmm.
Not just festival invites.
Mm-hmm.
You don't have to go and seekout all the festival directors,
but there's lots of differentthings, appearances, um, you
know, school visits, lots ofthings.
'cause there's, you know, a lotof authors and there's only so
many spaces.
Mm-hmm.
And like you said, for debuts,you are an unknown quantity.
Sarah Lane (22:39):
Yes.
Tina Strachan (22:39):
Um, you, so I can imagine as, as a festival
director, I wanna fill the room,you know, and I That's right.
Also want the people who Iinvite to talk.
To feel like they can fill aroom as well.
Um, so, and there would be somany authors that put their hand
up to do it, who, um, have uh,really Strachan backgrounds and
(23:01):
can absolutely fill a room andsell out.
Mm-hmm.
And so it is so that is thepeople that you're, that you're
up against.
That's right.
But there's probably a fewdifferent, um, maybe angles that
you can take in that some, a lotof festivals do like to do debut
panels.
Mm.
Or do like, you know, new booksor new faces in the military
community, which is nice.
(23:22):
Mm-hmm.
Or if you have some kind ofangle so you could, you know,
you could definitely go, uh,for, you know, historical.
Panels.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you'd still be veryrelevant for that and people
would still definitely be veryinterested.
So just about finding yourniche, I guess, that you could
Yeah, that's right.
That you could play on that.
Have you ever pitched yourselfto festivals?
I haven't
Madeleine Cleary (23:43):
neither.
Tina Strachan (23:44):
No.
Um, I will though.
It's my plan.
Um, it is my plan on my list,and I know that you have to do
it very early for those peoplewho do wanna pitch themselves.
Um, you have to get in reallyearly, I think.
Literally, by the time thefestival's over, they're
thinking about the next one.
Madeleine Cleary (24:01):
Yes.
Tina Strachan (24:01):
And it's, I'd say maybe at least nine months
outright.
They're, they're trying to startputting out feelers for names.
They are of, um, yeah.
People for the next festival.
So don't leave it too lateeither.
If you, uh, do you wanna get toa festival soon?
Um, it's not always, you don'talways have to pitch yourself
(24:21):
though.
Publishers do pitch for you.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (24:24):
That's what
Tina Strachan (24:24):
I've,
Madeleine Cleary (24:24):
yeah.
At least I think some publishersdo there.
I think there are perhaps someof the smaller presses that
might not have that capacity todo.
Mm-hmm.
To do so and so they rely on anexternal freelancer or perhaps
the author to representthemselves.
That can also be bettersometimes because.
The author approaching a pub,like a Fed Festival director can
(24:47):
be, you know, more, perhaps moretailored, um, and more likely to
receive a response.
You know, you're making thatconnection.
Yeah, and we're not suggestingthat, obviously people just go
start hounding um, festivaldirectors over Instagram and
saying, why can I be on yourfestival?
Think about your pitch.
And there's
Tina Strachan (25:06):
usually a formal method for this, isn't there?
I think it's, um.
I think you can find it on theirwebsite.
If there's a festival that youreally want and you, and with
pictures, I think it's the samefor everything, right?
For PO people who wanna pitchpodcasts, we get a lot of them
as well, don't we, Madeleine?
Mm-hmm.
Um, most certainly.
I.
Um, pictures where people cantell you what they're going to
(25:28):
talk about or what they can talkabout or what the difference is
for them.
Um, certainly can make adifference when you, when you're
pitching anything, festivals,school visits, all those sorts
of things.
Give an example of what you'regonna talk about.
Yes.
Um, example of times.
When you've done it before,even, um, is handy or all of
that help is extremely helpful.
Madeleine Cleary (25:48):
I agree.
I agree.
And, um, I guess we've kind ofbeen surprised at, um, the
amount of pictures that we getfrom authors who want to come
onto the podcast and it's, it's.
Very, uh, flattering to, toreceive those pictures.
Mm-hmm.
It's also quite difficult forus, isn't it though, Tina?
Because we wanna have as manypeople as we can on the show,
but we only conduct, you know,limited number of interviews.
(26:12):
Um, and so we've got a bit of abacklog, I think, at the moment.
Um, and I agree it's the onesthat, um, also I think take, and
this is the same for when you'repitching to anybody, any like a
library or a festival.
Um.
Show that you are engaged withthat individual entity.
So the best pictures that I'veseen to the podcast said, oh, I
(26:35):
really love this episode whereyou talked about this like this.
I took away this.
I've noticed there's a gap.
You haven't actually spokenabout this.
I can feel that gap for you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (26:44):
definitely.
Because everyone's looking forsomething a little bit
different, or they're lookingfor an angle that they can.
Push and promote.
Madeleine Cleary (26:51):
Yes.
Yes.
And um, and I think that's thesame with libraries as well.
Like you can look at, well, whosome of the authors that they
have taken and done events within the past or bookshops and
then said, well, you know, I,I'm similar.
I can do this, I can talk aboutthis.
I think your, your communitywould really appreciate this.
(27:11):
Like, I think there's ways thatyou can kind of.
Make it different rather thanjust a stock standard.
This is my book, this is who Iam, please have me on.
Tina Strachan (27:18):
Yes.
'cause you have to think there'sa lot of, they're getting a lot
of these pictures.
Yes.
So you really need to makeyourself stand out.
Madeleine Cleary (27:24):
Yes.
And I guess, because this isjust interesting as well, we do
get pictures from publicists aswell.
Mm-hmm.
Um, from publishing houses andsometimes the pitches that we
get, um, you know, there's 10authors in one pitch.
And so I guess that's useful forus to know that.
'cause I didn't know thatmm-hmm.
When, before we started thepodcast that publicists are very
(27:49):
busy
Tina Strachan (27:49):
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (27:50):
People and they might not be able to do an
individual, you know,everything's tailored,
everything's beautiful.
It's all lovely.
Yeah.
Um, but often, sometimes one ofmany bundle
Tina Strachan (28:01):
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (28:01):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (28:02):
You're bundled up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is, which is fine.
Yeah.
Um.
Now with festivals back tofestival.
Are we expecting to get paid
Madeleine Cleary (28:14):
for festivals?
Madeleine?
I think yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Um, all the festivals I've doneso far have been paid for that
time.
And I think actually authors ona panel get an easier ride than
the moderators do.
There's a lot of work that goesinto moderator.
I agree.
I agree.
Yeah.
Because you have to read thebooks at least.
Yes.
At least the books that they'vebeen published and yeah.
(28:36):
Not the back list of thoseauthors as well.
Mm-hmm.
And then you.
Um, yeah, prepare so much.
I know Charlotte has had done somuch preparation, so, um, but we
do for love as well.
Um, but yes, authors shouldabsolutely be paid for
festivals, don't you think?
Yeah, I
Tina Strachan (28:53):
agree.
I agree and I think they, I.
Uh, a lot of festivals, the goodfestivals are, are go to a lot
of, um, effort to make sure thatthe guests, all the guests are
fairly paid.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you know what thatmeans?
That they'll get big.
Um, reputable names coming totheir festivals again as well,
(29:15):
because they, uh, know how muchtime it takes.
It takes time.
It's not just turning up forthat, you know, 45 minute, half
an hour panel for you.
It's, you do have to think aboutwhat you might say.
You've gotta probably take thetime off.
You gotta travel there.
It is work.
It's probably on your, on yourweekend if it's a weekday.
Mm-hmm.
A sometimes take time off ofwork to do it.
(29:36):
Like it's, um, and it's takingaway from writing time.
That's right.
That's right.
But yeah, it, it is important.
Um, and of course, uh, a SAAustralian Society of Authors
would have all those, um, ratesof pace, which would include
festivals, I believe they havelike mm-hmm.
Different, um, appearances.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rates of pays Yep.
For panels and all those sortsof things.
Madeleine Cleary (29:56):
Yeah, for sure.
It's, it's, it, it's, yeah.
I think we've just got discussedthis on the, um, the podcast
before.
Even if there's no indication ofpay, it's still important for
authors to ask the question.
And even if you're happy to doit for free, it's also still
important to say, well, I'mwaiving my fee for this case for
you.
(30:16):
Yeah, yeah,
Tina Strachan (30:17):
yeah.
That's fair.
And I think always send a linkto the ASSA rates of pay so
people know where it's comingfrom.
Yes, exactly.
That's what I think.
Exactly.
Madeleine Cleary (30:24):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (30:25):
Hey, speaking of festivals, can I plug the MB and
Crime Writers Festival?
Yes.
So the Rom Crime Crime WritersFestival is, it's the first one
this year and it's being held.
That's a tongue
Madeleine Cleary (30:37):
tied is, is it?
Oh no it wasn't Little bit forme.
Rum, the
Tina Strachan (30:39):
Crime Writers Currumbin and Crime Writers,
Currumbin Crime Writers Festivalthe 15th to 16th of August.
So two days in August, and thebeautiful bin, um, up here on
the Gold Coast, or an incrediblevenue.
Uh, the guest of honor this yearis Fiona Macintosh, and she is,
I, I think maybe there mightonly be a couple of tickets left
(31:01):
if that, for her workshop.
So she's holding a workshop,which is gonna be incredible.
Um, yeah, get to spend, um, sometime with her and work on your
crime writing.
Um, also Hailey Scrivener,January Gilchrist and Ali Lowe.
So some really big names.
Uh, so if you're a crime writer,I'm sure everybody would know
who they are and, uh, very.
But also Alex ett will be there,the literary agent, Alex ett
(31:25):
giving, uh, people advice ontheir manuscripts.
Mm-hmm.
And Rebecca Saunders from her,she will also be there giving
some feedback.
Um, so yeah, workshops, panels,uh, networking sessions as well.
We're just talking about howimportant networking sessions
are.
Um, and, uh, it's gonna be anincredible event in such a
beautiful spot.
So.
Know, maybe, uh, pitch them fornext year.
(31:46):
Everybody, if you wanna go andpitch them.
But yeah, I go along, uh, rum, KBrothers Festival, check them
out on their website.
You can buy tickets on thewebsite.
Um, and it's a good excuse,excuse to spend two beautiful
days, um, up here on the GoldCoast.
Madeleine Cleary (32:00):
Yeah, look, August in Melbourne is not
great, so I think Soundswonderful.
Tina Strachan (32:06):
It's, it's gorgeous
Madeleine Cleary (32:07):
that that could be a tax write off as
well, right?
Tina Strachan (32:10):
Absolutely, absolutely could.
So that's actually gonna be mytop tip and recommendation for
this episode, Madeleine, is togo and check out the Currumbin
Crime Writers Festival books ontickets and um, yeah, spend
winter
Madeleine Cleary (32:21):
up here on the Gold Coast.
What about you, Madeleine?
Beautiful.
Well, I'm gonna go back on anold top tip and reiterate it,
which I remember Natasha, ourcatch up chat saying that she,
during a festival has solved.
Some terrible complex problem inher plot.
In her book during a festival,just sitting in the audience,
(32:43):
listening, talking aboutwriting.
And sometimes it's nice.
So if you are feeling stuck inyour, in your manuscript, go up
to Rumba in August or go to,there are so many incredible
festivals in Australia andthere's more and more every day
you can actually go to literarylistings.
(33:04):
Um, so Jill runs that amazingwebsite and her Instagram, and
she has.
All the incredible writersfestivals on there, so check out
literary listings.
That's my top tip.
That's great.
That's awesome.
Well, hopefully I get to see youat a festival soon, Madeleine.
Yes, I know.
One day we'll be, uh, invitedtogether doing the book deal
(33:25):
podcast episode.
Why?
How fun would that be?
Did you hear that festivaldirectors
Tina Strachan (33:30):
we're available
Madeleine Cleary (33:31):
for gigs?
That's right.
We should pitch that.
Oh, that's something we coulddo.
Let's, let's put that on ourvision board, Tina.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, let's do it.
I love it.
Alright, talk soon.
See you.
Bye.
Tina Strachan (33:50):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new EPS drop and to keep
up to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring stories,the authors behind your favorite
books.
No matter what stage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a time.
Madeleine Cleary (00:29):
The book Deal podcast acknowledges the
traditional owners of the landand waters, which it's recorded
on and pays respect to theirelders past, present, and
emerging.
Happy Sunday, Tina.
Happy Sunday, Madeleine.
You're like, wait, what's yourname?
You're deep in edits.
(00:50):
Oh
Tina Strachan (00:51):
no.
I was, I was gonna start offwith, um, good day to you, lady
Madeleine.
Um, because your last message tome was very 19th century and I
was really hoping that you weregonna bring the 19th century
talk with you.
Madeleine Cleary (01:08):
How do you do, Tina?
I hope that, uh, you are fairingwell.
Today indeed explore and stay.
But why do you have 19th centuryvocab at the moment?
Made?
I'm, oh, I'm just so deep.
I can't, what was the message Isent you again?
Um, I should read it out.
You, you were trying toschedule, uh, our session today
(01:29):
and I said I have rolled out ofbed this morning and I've just
been hitting the writing withoutcare for my appearance.
So.
Tina Strachan (01:38):
Very proper.
Um, and I love that, that it'sthat your write your, your
writing is seeping into youreveryday words.
Madeleine Cleary (01:46):
Does, does middle grade writing seep into
your everyday words when you'redeep into in the writing?
Tina Strachan (01:52):
Um, not really because, um, yes, mine's quite.
Prob, my words have seeped intoit, I think quite a lot.
But I do have a funny story inthat, um, there is a character
in book two, in book threemm-hmm.
Of the Wilder Zoo Series thatI'm writing.
And, uh, there's a Scottishcharacter, oh, I have to say.
(02:19):
At the time when I was writingbook two, I was binge watching
Outlander.
I dunno if you've seenOutlander.
But it's Scottish, it's inScotland and there's these
Strachan accents and um, to thepoint.
So I was binge watching it tothe point like where in my head
my thoughts were even a littlebit in Scottish.
(02:40):
Like that's all that I couldhear.
And so when I started writing Iwas like, this created this new
character and he just had to beScottish'cause I
Madeleine Cleary (02:48):
cause of Outlander.
So there is a character in yourbook that is Scottish because of
Outlander?
Yes.
Oh, that is the best.
Yeah.
I just
Tina Strachan (02:54):
wanted to write that.
Madeleine Cleary (02:56):
That's when your everyday life seeps into
your writing, which is common,isn't it?
Yes.
Anyway.
That's fantastic.
Even in middle grade.
I love that.
But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm deep in,um, 19th century Melbourne at
the moment, which is a fun placeto be really.
It's a nice escapism.
I think that's why I enjoyhistorical fiction.
(03:16):
'cause it is, it is a bit of anescape.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not sure of times weresimpler back then, but certainly
very interesting for some,maybe.
For others, not so much.
No, that's right.
That's right.
So it's been good.
Um, um, progress tracker, ohgosh.
Should I say it then?
I'll have to be kept to account.
Yeah, do
Tina Strachan (03:35):
it.
But I was gonna say this is, um,this might be some exciting news
for fans of Madeleine Clery andthe Butterfly Women.
Madeleine Cleary (03:41):
Are you
Tina Strachan (03:41):
talking, are you sort of, are we hearing it here
first?
Madeleine?
Is this.
Is this a new book that you'rewriting?
Madeleine Cleary (03:48):
It it perhaps this is the first, well I have
spoken about it in a couple ofother record things, but this
might be the first one that goesto Eric about it.
Yes.
So I am writing a new book.
Uh, it's set 15 years after theButterfly Women.
It is set in Melbourne again.
Um, it definitely expands out ofLittle Lawn.
So for those who've read TheButterfly Women, it's.
There's lots of very familiarlocations in Melbourne that my,
(04:11):
I'm taking my characters on to.
So it's expanding that loveletter to the city that people
have described it as.
And it's a lot of fun.
So I am up to, as of today,25,000 words a down.
Wow.
Which that's a good place to be,isn't it?
It is, it is.
It's a really good place to be.
Um, 30,000 I think is the pointwhere generally for me.
(04:36):
I'll either stop or keep going.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm almost at that point, andI thi but this one, this story's
feeling really good and, andjust like I get, I'm getting the
same feelings, it's feelingspecial and important to me.
Mm-hmm.
And I've got a lot of momentumbehind it.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm hoping that continues.
Mm-hmm.
And you're excited to sit downand keep going.
So excited.
(04:57):
I love that feeling.
I love it.
My brain, I'm just completelyabsorbed right now.
Um, so good.
I've also, it's coincided with abit of a quieter period for me
in terms of events.
So for the last couple of weeksI've just been, and it's also
really cold in Melbourne, so Iliterally have just been
huddling down and writing andthat's been really fun.
So that's nice.
(05:17):
What about you?
You are deep in edits.
Tina Strachan (05:20):
I'm deep in edits.
Yes.
Speaking of writing, I'm deep inedits for book three.
Which doesn't come out untilnext year.
Madeleine Cleary (05:25):
Um, but it's, you've got a bit of a break then
after you've got, uh, book twocoming out in July and then, uh,
next week, Madeleine?
I don't, is it next week?
Next week, is it?
Oh, no, it's the
Tina Strachan (05:36):
week after next.
Sorry.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Week after next.
I, I don't feel very preparedfor it.
It's just, it's, it is very, Ican say it's very different.
July is literally, yeah, I know.
In 10 days,
Madeleine Cleary (05:48):
so I know it's scary.
What date does it come out onthe, the 1st of July.
July 2nd.
July 2nd.
We'll mark that date in yourcalendars, everybody.
Yes.
July 2nd.
Sneak from the storm.
We'll hit the
Tina Strachan (05:58):
shells July 2nd.
And yes, I, everything is sobusy.
Like I've got so many workshops,uh, coming up and it's, yeah,
there's just a lot to do andedits.
Edits always just seem to comein at the.
They're really busy times,doesn't it?
Is it a structural edit or is ita copy edit?
Oh, well it's the type set edit.
Oh, so you know what it looks,looks when they send you what it
(06:20):
looks like.
Printed on a page.
So it hasn't got theillustrations in there yet, so
they're still gonna have to dosome fiddling around and moving
things around, um, to fit theillustrations in.
Which is good because I've, um,ma made quite a few additional
sort of edits and changes.
'cause it's been a while sinceI've seen it.
Madeleine Cleary (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
Um,
Tina Strachan (06:37):
I think it's probably been like six months.
So that's a good break.
That's Yeah.
To then look at it and go with afresh pair of eyes.
Um, the biggest thing that Ifound.
Actually, and I, I had thisissue when I was writing it, it
as a bit of a timelinesituation.
I dunno if you've like Yeah.
I think'cause the timelines arequite tight in this book and
(07:00):
it's, you know, one of the mainissues is that something's due
at a particular date, you know?
Mm.
So I sort of have to almost workback from that.
And there's a few things thathappened in that time that has
to happen on particular days.
And I think at one point.
It kind of happens over aboutthe space of a week, and at one
point, you know, I had to changethe timeline, change the days,
(07:20):
and so I, I can see a little bitof that sung over and, you know,
in this, um, type set copy thatI've got now, which I'm glad to
have caught.
Oh,
Madeleine Cleary (07:30):
that's good.
That's also frightening, isn'tit, when you Also
Tina Strachan (07:33):
frightening.
Madeleine Cleary (07:34):
But I, how do you map out your timeline?
I'm so
Tina Strachan (07:38):
glad you asked.
If you have time, and this iswhy, once you've done, once
you've done it and it is reallyimportant okay.
To map your timeline.
I didn't know this, so I readmy, my first manuscript that I
wrote, I just completely wrotethe whole thing and it was fine
and, and timewise, timelinewise.
(08:00):
There was no other major issuesexcept so I just naturally just
had it.
Sarah Lane (08:04):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (08:04):
Fine.
Like it was just working fine.
But I don't think the particulardays mattered.
It probably didn't matter if itwas in, you know, a couple of
days here or there, but when Istarted mapping it out and using
story grid, the story grid, wego, okay, story grid, as we
know, everyone knows how we, howI love this.
Um, at the end.
So it had like even when I firstsaw story good, I was like, this
(08:26):
is outta control.
This is so full on.
I'm like, I'm not gonna map eachthe time of each scene and how
long it starts and when itfinished, it ended.
But I can tell you now when youdo that, you do realize that
silly, some kind of like sillymistakes get through.
Like at one point I realize thatthey had been driving in a car
nonstop for 26 hours, which canever happen.
(08:46):
You do have to stop.
No one's got 26 hours worth offuel in the tank.
You know, just one of those,just one of those things that
you just sort of don't reallythink about and they, yeah, so I
just, so it was really handy topick that up and admittedly I
didn't, um, I did, I had toactually do just the, I had to
sort of map out the time foreach.
(09:07):
Chapter again now, not as, notlike start and fish, but at
least the days and if it was themorning or the afternoon,
because it really does make adifference when you're looking
at such a tight timeframe.
So,
Madeleine Cleary (09:17):
yeah, and also like external things, like where
the sun's positioned in the skyand all that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Oh.
Morning, afternoon, or whatseason it is.
Maybe it's not as necessary.
In Queensland seasons don't meanthis much.
There's storm season and there'sstorm season.
That's right.
Wild season.
Well, there you could be.
Yeah, that's true.
So I guess that, that, that's
Tina Strachan (09:37):
interesting.
Madeleine Cleary (09:38):
Mm-hmm.
So you would recommend it,
Tina Strachan (09:41):
um, I think if you have time after you've
written a manuscript, even justa, your zero draft to position
yourself.
'cause sometimes you can getyourself like in a really tight
or a really.
You can create a really bigissue, I think with your
timelines
Madeleine Cleary (09:56):
you can.
And um, so when I submitted theButterfly Women and it was
accepted, Ruby then asked me formy timeline.
Oh, oh really?
They asked me to send through.
The timeline for her, her nextstructural way to read.
And I was like, eek, I don't, I,I'm a chaos writer.
(10:20):
I don't have any timeline.
And she says, it's, and I sortof went, oh, I'll have to put
one together for you.
And she said it's reallyhelpful, particularly in
historical fiction, to havetimelines.
Tina Strachan (10:29):
Mm-hmm.
Um,
Madeleine Cleary (10:30):
I think any, any anything partic and crime
and all sorts.
And so I yeah.
Had to retrospectively go backand create a timeline.
Mm-hmm.
The other useful thing that Rubydid was put together, um, kind
of a map of the chapters for meand the parts to see, you know,
a summary of which of eachchapter, where the clues come
(10:52):
in, and the points that she didup this amazing wow shape.
Um, which, you know, because shejust obviously knew that I
didn't have anything.
She's like, oh, I'm gonna haveto do this.
Yeah.
So I guess for emerging writers,it, it, I think it's now I do
timelines ahead.
Like I've actually done timelinenow, or every time I come across
something where I go, oh, thishappened on this date, or This
(11:14):
person was born in this year, sothat would make them this, this
age.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's a thing.
They would've had this person atthis age.
And I now just, I have a table.
Randomly in some random Worddocument that I just add to.
And so that way Ruby, I can justgive it to Ruby in the future.
Tina Strachan (11:33):
She's gonna be
Madeleine Cleary (11:33):
so
Tina Strachan (11:33):
happy with that.
Madeleine Cleary (11:34):
I know, I know.
I think
Tina Strachan (11:36):
I feel really good doing that.
Yeah.
You're such a star pupil.
Um, now that is a really good,that is a top tip too.
Go through and check yourtimelines.
Yeah.
Uh.
Maybe after you've finished,perhaps, or at the same time if
you like.
But yeah, it is really helpful,especially if you do have an
actual ticking clock kind ofthing.
Yes.
As your storyline.
Yes.
Um, you can't, yeah.
(11:57):
You need to know when to applythe kind of the pressure and
everything, and you can't dothat too far out and you can't.
Build it up and then, you know,drop it back down.
You've gotta keep that pressureon and the momentum going.
Exactly.
So
Madeleine Cleary (12:09):
really
Tina Strachan (12:09):
important.
So, uh, timelines
Madeleine Cleary (12:11):
and your publisher might ask if for
emerging writers who are Yes,they may ask you for your
timeline.
So be prepared based our people,
Tina Strachan (12:19):
we both said the same thing.
Madeleine Cleary (12:22):
Oh, hilarious.
But you, yeah.
So I'm deep in edit, so that'skind of, yes.
Okay.
Tell us about your eventsthough.
Like what, what, what have yougot upcoming for book two?
I think I did last timeactually.
Did you?
I think,
Tina Strachan (12:33):
yeah.
How about, do you wanna justremind everybody?
I did.
And then, and I said I'm gonnaput it all up on, um, on Inster
and I, you know what?
I have been so busy that Ihaven't totally got round to it,
but I've started and um, so Ihave a couple of library events
mm-hmm.
Up here.
Gold Coast Libraries.
Uh, in the school holidays Ihave an event at Quip Brown Fox,
which is a, um.
(12:55):
Writing workshop.
Mm-hmm.
Um, which is all about writingwild characters.
Mm-hmm.
And settings.
Um, and I also have an event atwhere the Wild Things are in
West End, in Brisbane, and thatis a, uh, Wilder Zoo Crew
workshop.
(13:15):
So kids come along and test yourskills and see if you can make
it as a Wilder Zoo Crew member.
I'm gonna, we've got somelittle.
You know, wildlife trivia andwe're gonna do a little mock vet
exam on, on a rescued, I'm doingbunny ears.
It's a stuffed animal, um,rescued animal.
And, um, yeah, I've got a fewmore things and I'm just getting
(13:36):
the final details on, um, forAugust.
So, yeah.
And
Madeleine Cleary (13:39):
so where can people find all these events and
booking links?
Tina Strachan (13:43):
Yeah, on uh, my Instagram at the moment.
So yes, just at, um, Tina, justsearch Tina Strachan.
And, um, you shall find me inyour link.
You link in
Madeleine Cleary (13:53):
your bio or is that where
Tina Strachan (13:55):
Oh, yes, the, so the link is on in the bio there.
That's probably the best placeand.
Very soon.
I should have them on thewebsite as well.
Madeleine Cleary (14:02):
Brilliant.
Keep an eye out for that.
That's exciting.
And all in Queensland.
And then you'll be down inMelbourne as well.
Tina Strachan (14:08):
Yeah, end of August.
Uh, book launch for Nika in thestore.
Book two at Melbourne Zoo.
So, okay.
Tickets will be so it's gonna besuper fun, but tickets will be
quite limited, um, for that.
Unless you've got a pass to thezoo, which I know lots of people
do who have kids.
And then you could just come inand
Madeleine Cleary (14:24):
wait.
Am I.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're on VIP list, so I get,I'm one of the VIPs.
Yes.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (14:30):
You got an automatic ticket.
Fantastic.
Uh, no, but that's gonna besuper fun.
Madeleine Cleary (14:35):
Who's, who's, who's in your in convo partner
in Melbourne, CatherineCollette.
Oh, you should have asked me.
Tina.
Jealous Bloody clack, Catherine.
Always getting the good, thegood gigs.
Tina Strachan (14:50):
Well when you write your middle grade, um,
hey, I've been a
Madeleine Cleary (14:56):
middle grade reader before I've read.
Sarah Lane (15:05):
Hi, my name's Sarah Lane and I'm here to tell you
all about my debut picture bookSurprise Shark Illustrated by
the super talented PatrickCorrigan and published by the
beautiful team at Affirm Press.
It's hard to make friends whenyou're a shark, but this shark
has a foolproof plan for winningpeople over if only they'd stop
(15:26):
running away.
A surprising story about findingfriendship in the most unlikely
places.
Surprise Shark came about aftermy son had to rewrite the ending
to Whitney and Britney ChickenDivas during COVID Home
Learning.
And he put a shark in.
And I thought, how wonderfulthat in his mind, a shark could
just show up anywhere.
(15:47):
Kids' brains are the best.
And that got me thinking aboutthe most awkward, unlikely
scenarios in which a shark couldarrive and surprise shark was
born.
Surprise shark has beendescribed as delightfully,
energetic, and a joy to readaloud with fun, rhyme and cheeky
dialogue.
Shark defies stereotypes and isfull of humor and heart.
(16:11):
Thank you to Tina and the bookDeal podcast for the opportunity
to share Surprise Shark with youtoday.
Surprise Shark is out now and Ican't wait to share it with you.
Bye for now.
Tina Strachan (16:27):
Yeah, so I've had lots of friends.
I haven't attended too manyevents myself, but you've had a
busy weekend.
Madeleine Cleary (16:33):
Yes.
At a festival.
Fun.
Yeah.
So yesterday was, um, well it'sover this whole weekend
actually, the WilliamstownLiterary Festival in Victoria,
Willy Lit.
Um, and yeah, it was super fun.
Um, I did an event yesterdayafternoon.
It actually was a so solid outevent as well, which is very,
very cool.
Um, that's very cool.
So it was a packed room.
(16:53):
Um, yeah, it was in conversationwith.
An author called RochelleSiemienowicz, and she wrote a
book called Double Happiness.
Um, and the, the topic was Sex,love and Taboo, which is, oh,
that sounds so exciting, isn'ther?
Yeah.
Topic.
Our books are entirelydifferent, but Charlotte, so
Charlotte Guest, she's, um, anincredible book seller.
(17:15):
She's the store manager at BookBird in Geelong, and she, we, we
had met at STR to WritersFestival.
She's brilliant and she's abrilliant moderator.
I've heard this.
Yeah, she's incredible.
And so she facilitated theconversation and, um, her
questions just really, she foundall these amazing synergies
mm-hmm.
Between the books.
And I love that, that, you know,when your book is deeply read in
(17:38):
that way.
Um.
So it's a privilege, I think.
So we had a fantastic event andthen afterwards, um, so as
signing books, um, had a fan ofthe podcast come up, which is so
lovely.
Um, Georgie Foster, who's anemerging writer herself.
Um, so we had a good chat aboutthat.
(17:59):
And, um, yeah, had some like,just nice chats with readers,
which was really, really lovely.
Uh, so.
Uh, is there something veryenergetic and heartwarming about
writers festivals?
I'm not sure.
And it's, it's just, yeah, alittle bit different, I think,
because.
It just attracts a wholedifferent type of audience and
(18:19):
people can just float betweenevents and it's really cool.
And as a writer attending, it's,it's fun.
You get to go into the greenroom, which is really cool.
That sounds very exciting.
I was in there and I, I was toonervous, of course, um, to
approach them, but.
The first person I saw wasClaire Wright.
Mm-hmm.
Who wrote The Forgotten Rebelsof Eureka.
And I'm a massive fan and I justlike Star at her from the corner
(18:43):
for a while.
Really awkwardly.
Go and talk to her though.
No, I was too embarrassed.
I was like, oh, what am I?
And she's so smart andintelligent as well.
I don't even know how I wouldengage with someone like Claire
Wright.
And then the next person thatcame into the Green room was,
um, Kate Granville.
Again, and she was like, she'sso cute looking.
And I was like, I can't, I justdon't know what I could say to
(19:05):
someone as amazing and, andsmart as Kate Granville.
So I just, um, I hung out withmy crew.
So,
Tina Strachan (19:12):
yeah.
Experience though.
Sure
Madeleine Cleary (19:15):
there was people like,
Tina Strachan (19:15):
oh, that's Madeleine Cleary.
No, no.
May.
Okay, well maybe next year.
But that's an incredibleexperience.
All of it, like the green roomand especially, you know,
having, um, people come up andchat fans off the podcast, fans
off your book.
So you can see why festivals arehighly sought after for.
Authors.
Madeleine Cleary (19:35):
Yes, it's a great opportunity.
Emerging authors are very
Tina Strachan (19:37):
interested.
Madeleine Cleary (19:38):
It's, it is a good opportunity.
And if, and yeah, probably Ishould have gone up, but I was
hanging out, I was having greatchats with, um, Ali Parker, so
we got to hang out.
She's another fan of thepodcast.
And of course, um, I saw, um,Marion Taf was there, so she was
in conversation with GailHolmes.
Um, so it was nice to see someof our debut crew there.
I was gonna say,
Tina Strachan (19:57):
I saw lots of debut crew photos coming up all
over the socials.
I was feeling very jealous.
Madeleine Cleary (20:01):
Yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry.
But she could have you here,Tina.
But no, it was good.
It was so I was having lots ofengaged conversations with lots
of different people and, um,yeah, it, it is, it is fun.
They're diff it's difficult toget festivals and I think as a
debut writer, you can't reallyexpect to get any, like, if you
get one or two, like that'spretty amazing.
Um, because, you know, there's,there's so many amazing writers
(20:26):
out there and festivals.
Need to be able to draw a crowdand as an unknown quantity, you
are taking a risk on, on peoplelike us, I suppose.
So it's great that festivals aretaking the chances on debut
writers.
Um, but yeah, often it is, um,you know, the people who I've
(20:48):
met, I suppose in.
The two years that I've beenpart of this community and
networking and build, it's notreally networking, it's just
like community building, isn'tit?
Mm-hmm.
Um, that's helped.
Yeah.
Networking
Tina Strachan (20:59):
sounds like you're trying to sell something,
doesn't it?
I know, but it sounds it's notlike that at all, is it?
It's just, uh.
Yeah, it is building community,I think is a much better word
for it.
That's
Madeleine Cleary (21:11):
right, that's right.
And like for example, um, I, Idon't mind saying this.
Um, I met, um, EmilyWestmoreland, who's the director
of Willie Lip Festival at anevent that I attended with, um,
so Barbara Minton, who's thehistorian, she was in
conversation at.
Um, a, a, an event.
That book and paper inWilliamstown where the festivals
(21:33):
had organized like over a yearago, we got chatting at that
event.
Um, she asked about my book.
So I talked to her about thatand then, you know, that's how I
think I.
Having that connection with thedirector, she then remembers you
and your face and then, youknow, the invitation came along.
Um, and I've since found outtoo, like she's sort of, you
know, recommended to anotherfestival, a few of bus day
(21:55):
booths and said, you know, takea chance on these ones.
So it's amazing how.
When you put yourself out there,go to these events to meet these
people and hey, I should havelistened to my own vice and
probably gone up to ClaireWright and Kate Bel and
introduce myself.
But what it shows is that it ispart of this, you know, putting
you out there, out yourself outthere is important.
You get these kinds ofopportunities.
Tina Strachan (22:16):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, which, which.
Is true for lots of otherthings.
Mm-hmm.
Not just festival invites.
Mm-hmm.
You don't have to go and seekout all the festival directors,
but there's lots of differentthings, appearances, um, you
know, school visits, lots ofthings.
'cause there's, you know, a lotof authors and there's only so
many spaces.
Mm-hmm.
And like you said, for debuts,you are an unknown quantity.
Sarah Lane (22:39):
Yes.
Tina Strachan (22:39):
Um, you, so I can imagine as, as a festival
director, I wanna fill the room,you know, and I That's right.
Also want the people who Iinvite to talk.
To feel like they can fill aroom as well.
Um, so, and there would be somany authors that put their hand
up to do it, who, um, have uh,really Strachan backgrounds and
(23:01):
can absolutely fill a room andsell out.
Mm-hmm.
And so it is so that is thepeople that you're, that you're
up against.
That's right.
But there's probably a fewdifferent, um, maybe angles that
you can take in that some, a lotof festivals do like to do debut
panels.
Mm.
Or do like, you know, new booksor new faces in the military
community, which is nice.
(23:22):
Mm-hmm.
Or if you have some kind ofangle so you could, you know,
you could definitely go, uh,for, you know, historical.
Panels.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you'd still be veryrelevant for that and people
would still definitely be veryinterested.
So just about finding yourniche, I guess, that you could
Yeah, that's right.
That you could play on that.
Have you ever pitched yourselfto festivals?
I haven't
Madeleine Cleary (23:43):
neither.
Tina Strachan (23:44):
No.
Um, I will though.
It's my plan.
Um, it is my plan on my list,and I know that you have to do
it very early for those peoplewho do wanna pitch themselves.
Um, you have to get in reallyearly, I think.
Literally, by the time thefestival's over, they're
thinking about the next one.
Madeleine Cleary (24:01):
Yes.
Tina Strachan (24:01):
And it's, I'd say maybe at least nine months
outright.
They're, they're trying to startputting out feelers for names.
They are of, um, yeah.
People for the next festival.
So don't leave it too lateeither.
If you, uh, do you wanna get toa festival soon?
Um, it's not always, you don'talways have to pitch yourself
(24:21):
though.
Publishers do pitch for you.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (24:24):
That's what
Tina Strachan (24:24):
I've,
Madeleine Cleary (24:24):
yeah.
At least I think some publishersdo there.
I think there are perhaps someof the smaller presses that
might not have that capacity todo.
Mm-hmm.
To do so and so they rely on anexternal freelancer or perhaps
the author to representthemselves.
That can also be bettersometimes because.
The author approaching a pub,like a Fed Festival director can
(24:47):
be, you know, more, perhaps moretailored, um, and more likely to
receive a response.
You know, you're making thatconnection.
Yeah, and we're not suggestingthat, obviously people just go
start hounding um, festivaldirectors over Instagram and
saying, why can I be on yourfestival?
Think about your pitch.
And there's
Tina Strachan (25:06):
usually a formal method for this, isn't there?
I think it's, um.
I think you can find it on theirwebsite.
If there's a festival that youreally want and you, and with
pictures, I think it's the samefor everything, right?
For PO people who wanna pitchpodcasts, we get a lot of them
as well, don't we, Madeleine?
Mm-hmm.
Um, most certainly.
I.
Um, pictures where people cantell you what they're going to
(25:28):
talk about or what they can talkabout or what the difference is
for them.
Um, certainly can make adifference when you, when you're
pitching anything, festivals,school visits, all those sorts
of things.
Give an example of what you'regonna talk about.
Yes.
Um, example of times.
When you've done it before,even, um, is handy or all of
that help is extremely helpful.
Madeleine Cleary (25:48):
I agree.
I agree.
And, um, I guess we've kind ofbeen surprised at, um, the
amount of pictures that we getfrom authors who want to come
onto the podcast and it's, it's.
Very, uh, flattering to, toreceive those pictures.
Mm-hmm.
It's also quite difficult forus, isn't it though, Tina?
Because we wanna have as manypeople as we can on the show,
but we only conduct, you know,limited number of interviews.
(26:12):
Um, and so we've got a bit of abacklog, I think, at the moment.
Um, and I agree it's the onesthat, um, also I think take, and
this is the same for when you'repitching to anybody, any like a
library or a festival.
Um.
Show that you are engaged withthat individual entity.
So the best pictures that I'veseen to the podcast said, oh, I
(26:35):
really love this episode whereyou talked about this like this.
I took away this.
I've noticed there's a gap.
You haven't actually spokenabout this.
I can feel that gap for you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (26:44):
definitely.
Because everyone's looking forsomething a little bit
different, or they're lookingfor an angle that they can.
Push and promote.
Madeleine Cleary (26:51):
Yes.
Yes.
And um, and I think that's thesame with libraries as well.
Like you can look at, well, whosome of the authors that they
have taken and done events within the past or bookshops and
then said, well, you know, I,I'm similar.
I can do this, I can talk aboutthis.
I think your, your communitywould really appreciate this.
(27:11):
Like, I think there's ways thatyou can kind of.
Make it different rather thanjust a stock standard.
This is my book, this is who Iam, please have me on.
Tina Strachan (27:18):
Yes.
'cause you have to think there'sa lot of, they're getting a lot
of these pictures.
Yes.
So you really need to makeyourself stand out.
Madeleine Cleary (27:24):
Yes.
And I guess, because this isjust interesting as well, we do
get pictures from publicists aswell.
Mm-hmm.
Um, from publishing houses andsometimes the pitches that we
get, um, you know, there's 10authors in one pitch.
And so I guess that's useful forus to know that.
'cause I didn't know thatmm-hmm.
When, before we started thepodcast that publicists are very
(27:49):
busy
Tina Strachan (27:49):
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (27:50):
People and they might not be able to do an
individual, you know,everything's tailored,
everything's beautiful.
It's all lovely.
Yeah.
Um, but often, sometimes one ofmany bundle
Tina Strachan (28:01):
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (28:01):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (28:02):
You're bundled up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is, which is fine.
Yeah.
Um.
Now with festivals back tofestival.
Are we expecting to get paid
Madeleine Cleary (28:14):
for festivals?
Madeleine?
I think yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Um, all the festivals I've doneso far have been paid for that
time.
And I think actually authors ona panel get an easier ride than
the moderators do.
There's a lot of work that goesinto moderator.
I agree.
I agree.
Yeah.
Because you have to read thebooks at least.
Yes.
At least the books that they'vebeen published and yeah.
(28:36):
Not the back list of thoseauthors as well.
Mm-hmm.
And then you.
Um, yeah, prepare so much.
I know Charlotte has had done somuch preparation, so, um, but we
do for love as well.
Um, but yes, authors shouldabsolutely be paid for
festivals, don't you think?
Yeah, I
Tina Strachan (28:53):
agree.
I agree and I think they, I.
Uh, a lot of festivals, the goodfestivals are, are go to a lot
of, um, effort to make sure thatthe guests, all the guests are
fairly paid.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you know what thatmeans?
That they'll get big.
Um, reputable names coming totheir festivals again as well,
(29:15):
because they, uh, know how muchtime it takes.
It takes time.
It's not just turning up forthat, you know, 45 minute, half
an hour panel for you.
It's, you do have to think aboutwhat you might say.
You've gotta probably take thetime off.
You gotta travel there.
It is work.
It's probably on your, on yourweekend if it's a weekday.
Mm-hmm.
A sometimes take time off ofwork to do it.
(29:36):
Like it's, um, and it's takingaway from writing time.
That's right.
That's right.
But yeah, it, it is important.
Um, and of course, uh, a SAAustralian Society of Authors
would have all those, um, ratesof pace, which would include
festivals, I believe they havelike mm-hmm.
Different, um, appearances.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rates of pays Yep.
For panels and all those sortsof things.
Madeleine Cleary (29:56):
Yeah, for sure.
It's, it's, it, it's, yeah.
I think we've just got discussedthis on the, um, the podcast
before.
Even if there's no indication ofpay, it's still important for
authors to ask the question.
And even if you're happy to doit for free, it's also still
important to say, well, I'mwaiving my fee for this case for
you.
(30:16):
Yeah, yeah,
Tina Strachan (30:17):
yeah.
That's fair.
And I think always send a linkto the ASSA rates of pay so
people know where it's comingfrom.
Yes, exactly.
That's what I think.
Exactly.
Madeleine Cleary (30:24):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (30:25):
Hey, speaking of festivals, can I plug the MB and
Crime Writers Festival?
Yes.
So the Rom Crime Crime WritersFestival is, it's the first one
this year and it's being held.
That's a tongue
Madeleine Cleary (30:37):
tied is, is it?
Oh no it wasn't Little bit forme.
Rum, the
Tina Strachan (30:39):
Crime Writers Currumbin and Crime Writers,
Currumbin Crime Writers Festivalthe 15th to 16th of August.
So two days in August, and thebeautiful bin, um, up here on
the Gold Coast, or an incrediblevenue.
Uh, the guest of honor this yearis Fiona Macintosh, and she is,
I, I think maybe there mightonly be a couple of tickets left
(31:01):
if that, for her workshop.
So she's holding a workshop,which is gonna be incredible.
Um, yeah, get to spend, um, sometime with her and work on your
crime writing.
Um, also Hailey Scrivener,January Gilchrist and Ali Lowe.
So some really big names.
Uh, so if you're a crime writer,I'm sure everybody would know
who they are and, uh, very.
But also Alex ett will be there,the literary agent, Alex ett
(31:25):
giving, uh, people advice ontheir manuscripts.
Mm-hmm.
And Rebecca Saunders from her,she will also be there giving
some feedback.
Um, so yeah, workshops, panels,uh, networking sessions as well.
We're just talking about howimportant networking sessions
are.
Um, and, uh, it's gonna be anincredible event in such a
beautiful spot.
So.
Know, maybe, uh, pitch them fornext year.
(31:46):
Everybody, if you wanna go andpitch them.
But yeah, I go along, uh, rum, KBrothers Festival, check them
out on their website.
You can buy tickets on thewebsite.
Um, and it's a good excuse,excuse to spend two beautiful
days, um, up here on the GoldCoast.
Madeleine Cleary (32:00):
Yeah, look, August in Melbourne is not
great, so I think Soundswonderful.
Tina Strachan (32:06):
It's, it's gorgeous
Madeleine Cleary (32:07):
that that could be a tax write off as
well, right?
Tina Strachan (32:10):
Absolutely, absolutely could.
So that's actually gonna be mytop tip and recommendation for
this episode, Madeleine, is togo and check out the Currumbin
Crime Writers Festival books ontickets and um, yeah, spend
winter
Madeleine Cleary (32:21):
up here on the Gold Coast.
What about you, Madeleine?
Beautiful.
Well, I'm gonna go back on anold top tip and reiterate it,
which I remember Natasha, ourcatch up chat saying that she,
during a festival has solved.
Some terrible complex problem inher plot.
In her book during a festival,just sitting in the audience,
(32:43):
listening, talking aboutwriting.
And sometimes it's nice.
So if you are feeling stuck inyour, in your manuscript, go up
to Rumba in August or go to,there are so many incredible
festivals in Australia andthere's more and more every day
you can actually go to literarylistings.
(33:04):
Um, so Jill runs that amazingwebsite and her Instagram, and
she has.
All the incredible writersfestivals on there, so check out
literary listings.
That's my top tip.
That's great.
That's awesome.
Well, hopefully I get to see youat a festival soon, Madeleine.
Yes, I know.
One day we'll be, uh, invitedtogether doing the book deal
(33:25):
podcast episode.
Why?
How fun would that be?
Did you hear that festivaldirectors
Tina Strachan (33:30):
we're available
Madeleine Cleary (33:31):
for gigs?
That's right.
We should pitch that.
Oh, that's something we coulddo.
Let's, let's put that on ourvision board, Tina.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, let's do it.
I love it.
Alright, talk soon.
See you.
Bye.
Tina Strachan (33:50):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new EPS drop and to keep
up to date with what the pod isdoing.
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