Natasha, Tina and Madeleine on strategies to identify and manage author burnout and intention setting
In this episode of the Book Deal podcast, hosts Tina Strachan, Madeleine Cleary, and Natasha Rai discuss various aspects of the writing life, including burnout, the importance of nature, the benefits of cold showers, and practical tips for managing time and self-care. They also share personal updates and emphasise the need for thorough editing before submitting work to competitions. The episode concludes with an update on the podcast's growth plans and a call for Patreon support.
PATREON: After a year of The Book Deal Podcast and 51 episodes, we're looking to grow our community. If you've been enjoying the show and want to help keep us bring you conversations about the writing life, we'd love for you to join our Patreon for the less than the cost of a coffee per month.
Your contribution will be going directly to cover the costs of our podcast, and it also means we'll be able to keep paying our sound producer, Brogan. We've got lots of exciting things planned for our patrons, and we can't wait to share more as it all unfolds. So if you'd like to come along for the ride, head to our Patreon page.
And we'd love to have you on board. Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Book Deal Podcast family.
This week's Debut in the Spotlight is DJ Taylor with her YA novel Anna's War (July 2025, Riveted Press).
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:56 Catching Up After a Long Time
01:27 Tina's Exciting Book Launch
03:06 Melbourne Weather Woes
05:01 Natasha's Event at the Emerging Writers Festival
07:18 Discussing Burnout for Writers
17:22 Recognizing Burnout Symptoms
20:03 Introducing Anna's War
21:35 Managing Digital Distractions
26:40 Intention Setting and Time Management
32:29 Top Tips for Authors
36:34 Podcast Updates and Conclusion
Join our Patreon community for less than the cost of a coffee per month and support the pod! Your contribution will go to directly paying our sound producer, Brogan, and to help us bring you the conversations with industry professionals you love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Madeleine Cleary (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring storiesbehind your favorite books.
Natasha Rai (00:15):
We interview seasoned and debut authors, as
well as publishing industryprofessionals to bring you the
best tips and advice on how toget that elusive
Tina Strachan (00:24):
book deal.
So no matter what's.
Stage of writing your at.
We've got you covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And I'm Natasha Rai.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a
Madeleine Cleary (00:38):
time.
The book Deal podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners, the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Hello, ladies.
Why Hello there.
(00:59):
Hi.
It's been a long time sincewe've caught up.
We were just saying it'sprobably been a couple of months
and I reckon we've got lots ofthings to update each other on.
I really, I think so.
There's been a lot happening.
So much happening.
And I see you both in Melbourneas well, which has been so
exciting.
So.
Mm-hmm.
Tash and I, we had a, a lunchyesterday that started at 1230
(01:21):
and ended at 7:30 PM
x (01:24):
Love it.
Madeleine Cleary (01:25):
Which is awesome.
Um, but Tina, tell us about yourupdates.
'cause you've literally launcheda book in this time.
Tina Strachan (01:32):
I have, I think since I spoke to you last.
Yes.
Uh, I have I, Nika and TheStorm.
So I booked two of the WilderZoo series and.
Uh, yeah, so that came out inJuly, but it was a bit of a, I
had a, a longer sort of launchperiod, um, which culminated in
a couple of weeks ago inMelbourne at Melbourne Zoo,
(01:54):
launching it there with lions atthe window and yeah, snakes all
my favorite and, and snakes and,and, um, yeah, someone, someone
did a post and it was like, oh,coffee and biscotti and snakes.
I was like, I haven't had thatat a launch before.
Um, but it's.
Super fun and, um, hanging outwith all my favorite author,
friends, and favorite.
Family and um, and, uh,Catherine Collette also very,
(02:20):
um, lovingly came and, andhelped me be my book launch
buddy and, uh, my beautifulpublisher, Lisa Berryman.
So it was so nice'cause just tohang with that crew down there.
'cause I always see everybody inMelbourne and in Sydney have
these awesome get togethers.
So it's so nice to come downand, and, and meet them for a
little bit too.
So that was really good.
Madeleine Cleary (02:40):
It was a packed event too.
It was, it had such a good vibeon the day.
Like you really pulled a crowd,Tina, and there was so much love
and support for you in the room.
Um, and we were just reflectingearlier, like it was wonderful
that your publisher, LisaBerryman.
Also came to that.
Yeah.
And I think just seeing hersupport of you was really
(03:00):
fantastic as well.
Tina Strachan (03:02):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it was lovely to see herbecause yeah, she does live so
far away.
Um, and everyone, you know, theweather was terrible that
weekend.
It was so bad.
It's Melbourne.
It was so, I think I know, butit was worse than normal.
There was like.
Sheep grazes warnings.
Like people were legit gettingwarnings that their sheep could
die.
(03:22):
And I was like leaving the GoldCoast with the blue sky and the
24 degrees.
And
Madeleine Cleary (03:27):
you kept sending me, uh, like both of us
saying photos of, um, theMelbourne weather, like just a
snip of the Melbourne weather.
And I think I was in, I was inNoosa.
I was like, you are like, Idon't care.
Tina Strachan (03:36):
I was like, sort this Madeleine, I'm coming to
Melbourne.
Sort this please.
Natasha Rai (03:41):
I still had intense FOMO that I couldn't make it for
that.
It looks so good.
Can you do one in Sydney pleaseat Targa Zoo?
I'd love to.
Oh, I have
Tina Strachan (03:47):
plans.
Natasha
Natasha Rai (03:49):
plans.
Yeah, you could do it like withthe giraffes in the back.
Oh,
Tina Strachan (03:53):
I know, I know.
We'll have giraffes on the coverof all the WA Zoo books, so
it'll be only be fitting.
So Yes.
Um, it was busy and itculminated in that, which was
just a lovely, beautifulweekend.
And um, yeah, so it was, it waslong launch period, but it was
lots of fun.
Madeleine Cleary (04:10):
There was a baby giraffe too.
Speaking of giraffes, this, didyou see baby giraffe
Tina Strachan (04:14):
noodle?
Madeleine Cleary (04:14):
Is that noodle?
Tina Strachan (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The cutest thing ever.
I know.
So sweet.
Cute.
Oh, but Madeleine tell me, you,you had to have gone to the
butterfly house, right?
Madeleine Cleary (04:26):
Oh my gosh.
So yes.
Did you?
Yes, of course.
And I was there with my niecesand they, that was their
favorite part.
The butterfly house.
It's one of my favorites too.
So gorgeous.
We had so many beautifulbutterflies landing on us.
It was very special.
And I don't suppose you had acopy of the butterfly women
there.
I did not.
I should.
I should.
I've just like, I should havedone some book promo.
(04:46):
Like I should have thoughtabout, you know, Jessica Box's
advice in the last episode,which is the piece to camera
piece, you know?
Yeah.
Done some promos, scheduled somecontent, time boxed.
Yeah.
All that kind of stuff.
But I did it, so I love the timebox.
I know, I know.
Um, and Natasha, I went to yourevent yesterday at the Merging
Writers Festival in Melbourne.
I just love that both of you'rejust coming to me like I don't
(05:07):
have to go.
It's handy.
And that was a fabulous event.
So many people, that would'vebeen like over a hundred people
in the room.
I know, I was,
Natasha Rai (05:15):
I'm glad I didn't know that going in.
Um, because I was,'cause we werejust in this little green room,
Tina, and they took us through,like the building.
So I didn't actually get to seethe space at all.
I had no concept of what it Oh,wow.
And I was asking one of them,I'm like, so what?
Like what is it?
Is it like just a room?
Is it like a theater style?
And they were like, oh, it'skind of long and skinny.
(05:36):
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Um, so when we actually came onstage, I was a bit taken aback.
I was like, oh, oh my God.
Okay.
Yeah.
But it was good because they hadproper spotlight.
So, which means I couldn'treally see lots and lots of
people.
Mm.
I could just kind of see thefirst few rows handy.
And then I did get side of, of,of Mads in the crowd and I was
like, yes, there she is.
Okay, good.
(05:57):
I'll feel better.
Madeleine Cleary (05:58):
And it was so funny because, um, I think you
mentioned the book Deal podcaston stage and then Christine
Newell, who was sitting with us,she did a woo woo.
Oh, did she, Christine on you.
And you heard that, didn't you?
Natasha Rai (06:11):
I did.
I heard that faintly.
And I remember at the timegoing, I hope that was a whoop
whoop, but not a boo.
x (06:17):
Never, never.
But,
Madeleine Cleary (06:19):
but Natasha was facilitator.
She was the moderator and shewas amazing.
So skills on show.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and obviously you are a veryskilled interviewer.
You, you interviewed the bookdeal, but you also do so many.
So anyone who's wanting to bookNatasha Rye in for future
moderating gigs, you can contacther via website by the book Deal
Podcast, Instagram.
(06:39):
Thank you.
I love how you promote us,Madeleine.
That I know.
I know.
Always, always.
Actually we were both pitchingeach other at bookshops all over
Melbourne as well.
Tina Strachan (06:49):
Work you gotta do, go pretending to be each
other's publicist and just belike, oh, Madeleine's publicist.
Here she is.
Natasha Rai (06:57):
I'd love to be work publicist.
I, I think I, you'd so good atit.
Oh my gosh.
Mm-hmm.
You've just got so much driveand so much like oomph.
Half the time I'm like, coweringbehind the bookshelves and you
are like going up big.
Hello.
Um, have you got, and it's justso awesome to see you in action.
Tina Strachan (07:13):
What about you Madeleine?
You, what's your update?
You have been
Madeleine Cleary (07:16):
super busy as well.
Mm.
I think actually this probablyleads into what we wanna talk
about, which is burnout forriders.
Um, and, you know, we never,ever stick to theme when we have
our catch ups, but I think thisis an important one to talk
about and to stick to theme thisthis week.
Um, I, I don't know.
I just think that, um, the lasttwo months have been incredibly
(07:40):
busy and tough.
Um, you know, lots of thingsgoing on in my personal life and
health wise and compoundingwith, you know.
An enormous amount of stillpublicity and events, which I'm
so grateful for and I absolutelylove doing.
And you don't wanna ever say noto things as well.
I'm sure you both find that too.
And you know, I think a lot ofpeople outside the book world
(08:02):
sort of said to me or just, youknow, just take it a bit more
easier and say no, and, and putboundaries, but you just, you
don't want to because you neverknow.
It dries up quickly, doesn't it?
I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You want those opportunities.
So like, for example, last week,um.
I had a, a throat infection inconjunctivitis, hence why I'm
(08:22):
wearing my glasses.
Um, and lots of things going on.
But, um, you know, Sydney, um,bad Crime Writers Festival was
on and I was traveling and, um,I was very close to pulling out
because I was so sick.
But in the end decided to go andI have no regrets, but it does
take a toll on your body andyour mm-hmm.
(08:43):
You know, health and, and allsorts of things.
Um, particularly'cause you know,a lot of these festivals, you,
you do one panel, but it's alsoall the energy you give.
It's a lot of energy.
Yeah.
So I guess, yeah, I'm curious toknow what your perspectives are
on this.
'cause I think all of us havebeen incredibly stretched and
busy.
(09:04):
Mm-hmm.
Um, we all have our day jobs,our personal lives, and our
writing lives since publication.
So how do we like, yeah, how dowe find a new normal?
And I don't know, Natasha, youseem like a, a good person.
You've a calm, authoritativevoice on this.
Natasha Rai (09:23):
I dunno about that, but I can, I can talk about what
I'm figuring out because Ihaven't figured it out yet.
Um, so like you, Madeleine, likethere's, there's been some
festival stuff.
There's been some intensivetraining I've been doing for my
counseling work and then.
I'm also judging, um, a prize.
So I've got entries to read andwhat I started to realize was,
(09:44):
like, you, I don't wanna say no,um, but one thing that helped me
when I was saying yes, was tosee how it looked in terms of my
time commitment for each thingand really, um, getting a sense
of where the overlaps were.
And going right in those timesof overlap, like for example,
I'm gonna have to read thesethree books plus start reading
(10:05):
the entries for this prize atthe same time.
So there was one weekend whereI'm gonna be doing both.
So what I did was write, okay, Ican't do any social stuff that
weekend and it's not a sacrificeit, I chose to do this.
Um.
So that helps me when I can lookand see what's coming up and
(10:26):
then plan accordingly.
Um, the other thing I know iswhat my signs are for coming up
to burnout.
Mm.
So as soon as that those signscome up, I do things that I know
are going to be good for me.
And I don't want to turn thisinto a full counseling session,
but there's a real distinctionbetween doing things that are
self care and doing things that.
(10:47):
Enable you to keep going at thepace that you're going'cause
they're not the same.
Um, self-care is about genuinelylooking after yourself or
finding a way to give your bodyand your mind a break.
Um, the other, which I callmanagement strategy is to enable
you to do things at the frefrenetic pace or whatever it is
that you're doing, which doesn'tactually give you a break.
(11:11):
So,
Tina Strachan (11:12):
so what would be some good
Natasha Rai (11:13):
examples of that?
So I know, so obviously, youknow, people always think about
burnout or maybe they don't, Idon't know.
There's a common conceptionmaybe that with burnout you can,
if you only could take some timeoff, right?
You could just take some timeoff to rest and then you'll feel
better.
And yes, that is true.
And if you have the luxury orthe ability because you have,
um, sick leave, stress leave,whatever, you can do that.
(11:35):
But if you don't, um, it's aboutfinding glimmers.
So it's like going.
I exercise every single day.
For example, I'm not talkingabout me.
This could be a person.
And so you go two days a week,I'm actually going to choose to
sleep in or I don't exercise.
And when I do, I feel better.
So three days a week I'm gonnado a 10 minute walk.
It's just little glimmers.
(11:56):
And if you find that the thingyou're trying to do for yourself
is actually putting more demandon you in any way, like it's
taking up your energy, it'sfeeling like a different chore,
it's probably not going to beself-care.
And it doesn't have to be a fullon thing.
It can literally be, as I said,glimmers.
So going to bed a bit earlier ifyou can, or getting up a bit
(12:18):
later if you can.
All those little things thatgive your body just a bit of
some space essentially.
Madeleine Cleary (12:27):
I love this.
I think this is great.
Do you know I was in the cartoday?
Um.
On, on my way to a picnic, afamily picnic for my dad's
birthday, and I was writing mydad's card in the car, like
literally on the way while myhusband was driving, and I just
(12:48):
had this feeling.
Inside.
'cause we just, we had, we wererunning late, we were racing to
get all the food for the picnicand pack everything and have it
all right.
And I'd been doing writing inthe morning and planning
podcasting stuff and you know,you get pulled in so many
different directions.
And then I'm hurling writingthis birthday card for my dad.
And I had this feeling in thepit of my stomach.
(13:10):
I'm like, what am what?
How have I got to this pointwhere, you know, your time is.
So constrained and you'refeeling so I, I felt really flat
and, and part of me was like,oh, I just wanna, I just wanna
go home and just spend the wholeday.
Just have our day of justwriting and just so I can focus
on the, on the work and get thework done.
(13:32):
But, and so this is what I wassaying to my husband.
Went to the picnic, sat in thesun, played with my nieces.
We went for a nice bush walkdown by the river.
Um, we laughed.
We had a nice lunch.
Beautiful.
Um, three hours of that and Ifelt a thousand times better for
it.
Mm-hmm.
And so it is almost like thethings that you think you need
(13:54):
to help with the burnout mightactually not be.
Natasha Rai (13:57):
Yeah.
Because even that idea, um,Madeleine, about, I wish I could
have some time to write that's.
It's a double edged swordbecause the, that is the thing
that's leading to maybe feelingof fatigue or burnout.
And that is also the thing thatnourishes.
But sometimes you just have totake a pivot and it's not
forever.
Like, you know, these thingsdon't, if you look after
(14:18):
yourself or if you know how tolook after yourself, they don't,
they kind of pass.
Madeleine Cleary (14:22):
Mm-hmm.
What
Tina Strachan (14:23):
about you, Tina?
I was just thinking when youwere talking about, um,
Madeleine like being outside andbush walking and um, being in
the sun and there's.
I think there are a couple ofthings.
Like one is just keeping itsimple.
Hey, sometimes, like, sometimesgo, maybe I'll go and get a
massage or maybe I'll go for asoak or I need to meditate.
Never done it before, but surelythat's what will get fix me.
(14:44):
Um, and it's, there's thatconcept of nature bathing, which
you've both probably heard ofbefore.
Mm-hmm.
And honestly, just a, a walk inoutside, even if it's just
outside, even if you don't livein.
Near somewhere where there'sbush, but surely just fresh air
and sunshine.
Or if you're in Melbourne rain,um, and lots of wind.
(15:04):
No, no, I, I know that it'slovely there.
Um, but yeah, being out in thesun and just breathing in some
fresh air.
And making it simple.
Right, and really achievable.
And just what you have thereright now.
And maybe it is just taking abath or, exactly.
I actually have like multipleshowers in a day and it's all
just part of how I work.
I try not to, if the day's goingwell, that's fine, but I just
(15:25):
get in spaces where I need likea circuit breaker from me.
For me to get to one place tothe other.
As in like, um, a thoughtprocess in my brain, it clears
my brain because as we all know,you go in the shower, there's
nothing much else you can do inthere except for shower things.
Um, which, which are, yeah,normally things that will, um,
and I find it calming.
(15:46):
Some people might not, but, um,yeah, so even a nice shower,
some nice smelly soap.
Um, keeping it simple, maybe.
Madeleine Cleary (15:54):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated
at all.
Tina Strachan (15:56):
Mm.
Madeleine Cleary (15:56):
And you know what?
You've actually, I think,connected something here, Tina,
which is like the shower and thebath is a way of doing nothing
and almost like hanging out withmy family.
It's not like it's doingnothing, but it actually, it's
easy.
Makes you focus on somethingwhich is not all those other
thoughts that are going aroundin your head.
And all those other hats that wewear, like when you are talking
(16:18):
with a 3-year-old, um, yourfocus is very much on the ducks
and the water and the lake andall those types of things.
She actually said to me on theswings today, she turned to me
on,'cause we're both on theswings.
She's only at two and a half.
And she says to me, I saw yourbook in the bookshop like this.
That's so cool.
(16:39):
And so just, you know, I thinkpart of me wants to withdraw,
but I think actually part of myself-care is not to withdraw,
it's to, to hang around withpeople that nourish and I think
that's really important.
Mm,
Tina Strachan (16:51):
connection.
Totally.
x (16:52):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (16:53):
Yeah.
I love that idea.
Madeleine Cleary (16:55):
So you are all feeling well and, okay.
Are you at all close to burnoutor you're feeling good?
I'm gonna check, check in withyou both.
Oh.
Tina Strachan (17:05):
I think I'm doing, um, okay now, I think
that as soon after I got backfrom Melbourne after the book
launch and like we're kind ofsettled from that, I really felt
just all of a sudden one day Ijust kind of stood there and I
just looked at my husband and Iwas like.
I don't feel like I have to haveto do something right now.
Like I've, I mean, I do alwayshave stuff to do, but I don't
(17:25):
feel like this massive weight onme.
I almost just feel like I've gota bit of time.
It's so not time, but mentalspace.
x (17:33):
Mm.
Tina Strachan (17:33):
Um, I think just everything just lifted and I.
Feel like there's a little bitof downtime now, which is, which
is nice.
Um, really nice.
But I think sometimes you don'trealize how close you're getting
to burnout or how overwhelmedyou are until it, until
afterwards and you go, wow, thatwas what a.
What a change in brain space,so.
(17:54):
Mm-hmm.
I think that's the other thing,right?
Is that some people don'trealize when you're getting
close to that because it justcreeps up on you.
And, um, yeah.
What are some of the signs,Tash, that they just, you're
taking on too much?
Natasha Rai (18:05):
Um, so some of the signs are things, well, the
obvious ones being really tired,um, not being able to focus on
things that you all always foundeasy to do, or finding things
really onerous, like the thoughtof.
Dinner or the thought of doing ashop or the thought of going to
work, whatever it feels likethey're huge, huge tasks that
(18:26):
suggests that you are just, yourbody is just using up too much
energy to keep you alive, to doall of that other work.
Um, a sense of depression.
So not like depression isdifferent, but that idea of that
feeling depressive, like, thisis really hard.
I can't really do anything.
A lot of self-loathing orcriticism that's really common.
Like, you know, I can't do this.
Why am I so hopeless?
(18:47):
Why?
And especially if that's not afamiliar thing or that's
creeping in a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And the, this is a catch 22 aswell.
The more you doubt yourself, themore mistakes you make.
That's another sign thatburnout's on the way or that you
are in burnout because you domake more mistakes.
And the more mistakes you makeis again, the self-fulfilling,
um, kind of prophecy and, um.
(19:10):
Lack of like different changesin appetite and sleep.
The big ones too, if you'reeating too much, you're not
eating at, you know, at all.
Or, and of course the body willshow you like infections getting
sick.
Like if you get sick frequentlyin a short space of time.
Especially looking at you,especially things like colds and
(19:32):
sore throats, they're, they'requite common in burnout.
Um.
Random aches and pains.
Mm.
It's just because when we'restarting to stress, we hold our
bodies differently, and then westart carrying stress in
different parts of the body.
So it it, if you don't know yoursigns, that's okay.
Um, what you can do is if you doget into burnout, you can start
to do a reverse map of when didI start feeling something?
(19:54):
If you, if you don't even knowwhat the something is, just
figure out when did thingschange.
x (19:58):
Yeah.
DJ Taylor (20:03):
Hi, I'm Di Taylor, author of the YA historical
fiction novel, Anna's War.
My pen name is DJ Taylor.
The story of Anna's war began along time before I wrote a
single word.
It began in southern Holland inthe final brutal years of World
War ii.
I was inspired by the real lifememories of my parents-in-law
(20:24):
and a friend of theirs.
They're childhood recollectionsof Nazi occupation resistance,
and the courage just to survive.
My mother-in-law's father hid ina secret cellar beneath the
family home while soldierspatrol the streets above
arresting able-bodied men andtransporting them to work in
German factories.
(20:45):
These German factories werefrequently bombed by the allies.
The emotional heart of Anna'swar rests in the true stories of
silence, fear, and defiance.
As the Nazis tighten their grip,Anna's world becomes smaller,
darker, and infinitely moredangerous.
Though Anna's journey isfictional, the world she lives
(21:06):
in and the choices she makes arerooted in real life acts of
bravery and sacrifice.
Anna's War was released on 2ndof July and is published by
Riveted Press.
Riveted Press has the taglinewhere unforgettable stories are
forged, and I hope if you readAnna's War, it'll be a story
(21:27):
that will stay with you longafter you have read it.
Madeleine Cleary (21:35):
The focus thing I think really resonated
with me, um, because I'm prettygood at focusing on tasks
generally, but I definitelyfound, because I went to Noosa
recently for a week and I don'tthink I quite realized how close
I was to burn out until I wentaway and stopped.
As well.
Sometimes when you do have thatand every single morning I was
(21:56):
exercising, I was going for aswim, I was reading books and
being able to focus for hours onbooks.
And that is something I don'tthink I can do in a normal like
day to day at the moment becausethere is just so much going on.
Um, so what I have done, I'veactually deleted a lot of my
like social media apps againfrom my phone, but I've gone
(22:18):
more than just Instagram.
I've got.
You know, deleted Messenger onmy emails as well from my phone.
So now I can only check emailson my laptop.
Mm, that's a good idea.
Yeah, so I schedule like certainthings.
'cause I just found, I don'tknow if you both find this, I
just get a lot of writer based,author based emails now.
A lot of admin.
x (22:37):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (22:38):
Um, and I'm not sure where it comes from or
why, but you know, it's just it.
The admin has increased sincebecoming a published writer.
Tina Strachan (22:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it makes sense not to haveit on your phone.
'cause unless you're sittingdown ready to address an email,
why are we checking it likeExactly.
And same as Instagram messagesand even text messages.
Honestly, I, the amount of timesI don't respond back and I feel
horrible about it was because.
I've looked at it like when I'mwalking from my car to the
(23:07):
office or something like, why?
I don't know.
And as a habit, and then Iforget that it's even happened
'cause I can't give it the brainspace.
And then like three weeks laterI go, oh, that's right.
That person messaged me.
And so why did I even look?
Yeah, it's, it makes completesense.
And just to take them all offand, um.
Uh, time block as, um, timeblock, um, Jessica suggested
(23:29):
and, um, just look at it thenwhen you've got the brain space.
'cause
Madeleine Cleary (23:33):
otherwise you are thinking about how you're
gonna respond to it, uh, becauseyou see it pop up and Yeah.
You, you start already thinkingabout it.
Whereas if you just.
Schedule and I've got, now Ischeduled time, I timebox it.
Mm.
Um, after work, I have like inmy calendar now, like an hour
after work to just go through myauthor emails.
x (23:52):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (23:53):
And Instagram messages and that type of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And I've found that has beenhelpful for the focus.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (23:59):
And the mental load, Hey, because even
sometimes you can open one ofthe many messaging services and
get something that's not greatnews or just confusing news or
just news that you just don'twant to.
Know about right now when you'reabout to walk into work or sit
down and write or something likethat.
And that just totally distractsyou.
So unless you're ready to beprepared for whatever's, um,
(24:20):
coming at you in one of thosemessaging services, then maybe
it's best not to look.
Mm, I'm trying to tell, I'mtalking to myself here too,
like, so I think I'm gonna getoff like, um, because I've even
noticed with Instagram lately,because that's pretty much the
only one that I use, I.
Actually pick up my phone.
And I, I'm, I'm, I kind of don'twanna open it.
Like, I think I just, when yougo, when you're going through
(24:42):
that sort of launch period andstuff, and I didn't do heaps of
stuff on there, but I justwanted to be around for, um,
whenever there's mentions orreviews and acknowledge that,
because I know that it's, it'stime for people to do, to write
these reviews and posts thingsabout your book or your launch
and stuff.
So I wanted to be around to, um,you know, acknowledge that.
Uh, yeah.
But so when that's all sort ofdying down, I, I.
(25:04):
Yeah, I'm really looking at itnow.
I just, because I don't, Iactually don't want to, I just,
I'm kind, sometimes I'm sick ofjust picking up my phone.
Mm.
So I'm going to leave this, uh,interview, interview catch up
and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna dothe same and just, and just take
them all off and.
Time block them.
Natasha Rai (25:22):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the thing is the,the impact of all of that is
creating space.
Mm-hmm.
And then you have more time forconnection, which is, you know,
a lot of pe a lot of us loveconnection with others or
nature.
x (25:34):
Mm-hmm.
Natasha Rai (25:34):
So the irony always is the more you slow down, the
more time and space you docreate.
x (25:39):
Mm-hmm.
Because
Natasha Rai (25:39):
you're, you're able to just.
Really distill down to what isit I need to do?
Because the more you try and do,the more you reinforce, there's
more to be done.
So it just leads you into thisother whole place that's not
helpful.
Tina Strachan (25:52):
Mm-hmm.
It's like when I was talkingmeditation with, um, uh, Jane,
Tara,
Jane
about, uh, manifesting and, uh, she
meditates and yeah, that'ssaying that if.
If you don't have time or youthink you're too busy to
meditate for an hour, thenmeditate for two.
And it's, it really, and I getit, and I know it's practical to
(26:13):
sit down.
And even if you clear your mindfor just like 10, 15 minutes,
it's like, I think to myself, Idon't even have 10, 15 minutes.
Literally my every second of myday is mapped out.
Um, but if you have 15 minutes,it's like, well, maybe I will
save time elsewhere during theday because my brain will be
functioning better and I canfocus better.
(26:33):
So again, time block meditationinto my daily calendar.
Madeleine Cleary (26:40):
Well, th this actually goes very, it segues
really nicely into Tash, yourintention setting, um, episode.
Um, and do you wanna talk alittle bit, I suppose, about
intention setting and what yourplan is around your episodes in
future?
Yes.
So I've
Natasha Rai (26:58):
always set that intention.
Partly for personal selfishreasons.
'cause I was struggling withtime and Sally, in that Sally,
good episode.
She just kept mentioning timeand I'm really latched onto it.
Um, and I just thought that itwould be a really lovely way to
add a bit of, I dunno, to like,to distill or take something
(27:19):
outta the episode that reallytouched me.
Um, so that's, that was what Iwas thinking in terms of the
setting that intention and, andhow.
You can look at a differentaspect of your manuscript or
your writing craft or practice.
Um, especially because at thetime I was flirting on the edge
of burnout.
So, um, I, uh, found that veryuseful even for myself to be
(27:41):
like, okay, what am I doing withmy time?
And I also loved, um, Sally'swhen she talks about her
anchoring her, her story or hernarrative or her plot in time,
because that's just anotherlayer of attention you can bring
to your work.
That was my thinking.
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (27:57):
Mm.
I'm interested to know aboutanchoring manuscripts and time.
How, how would you go aboutdoing that?
Good question.
Uh,
Natasha Rai (28:06):
so I guess I was, I'm thinking about, um,
onslaught, um, and becausethat's set across different time
periods and each scene I wroteset in different times.
I immersed myself fully intothat.
So what was happening then?
What might have been in theenvironment around these people
then?
(28:27):
Um, and really tried not tocompare, like tried really not
to think about what Arch mightbe experiencing.
That's one of my characters.
And in say, 1997 compared towhat you might be experiencing
in 2024, because it's a hugeamount of time and as soon as
you start comparing, you startwriting it with a different
mindset.
Because you're writing it fromhere back there.
(28:48):
I'm doing things with my handsthat no one can see, so that's
really helpful.
Um, but yeah, I think that theability, I think to get into the
time that you're writing andMadeleine, you must, this must
be something.
You think about, have to thinkabout, right, because you're,
yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (29:03):
And I think you can almost go too far
because, um, I spend a lot oftime t trawling through old
newspapers.
Um, generally mostly on trovebecause it's just so interesting
to anchor yourself in that.
Yeah.
The time period.
Um.
Uh, more recently I was lookingup, for example, I did a deep
(29:26):
dive into mediums who practicemedical diagnosis in, in the
time period of 1870 to 1880 inMelbourne.
So I want a very specific timeperiod and a very specific
thing, and I just uncovered allthis really interesting stuff
and, you know, but I, I spentprobably like two hours just on
(29:49):
that.
Little topic and that littlenugget, um, because I just find
it really intriguing.
So you can, yeah.
But surely
Natasha Rai (29:56):
it gets your mind thinking in a very.
Different specific way that yourcharacters would've thought, or
that's their whole world?
Yes.
That's, and also the
Madeleine Cleary (30:04):
writing, I mean, even writing in the
nineties is different.
The way we spoke in thenineties, the language we used
in the nineties is different toeven now.
And of course, 1870s is verydifferent.
Um, but I, I think as well, likeI, I, um, I, I know it's not
really about.
Well, I guess it is a little bitabout time and Tina writing from
(30:25):
a child's perspective.
Yeah, I was about to say that.
Yeah, I think so.
Tina Strachan (30:29):
I feel like I am still a child, so I find that
very easy to do.
But I do have to say, um, I've,I'm sure there's lots of middle
grade writers who don't havechildren, but geez, it's been
helpful.
I think I like, I dunno if Iwould've been able to connect
enough, like with where they'reat now.
Mm-hmm.
True.
Because it's very different towhere we were at.
(30:51):
But still not like, stillthey're still the same, you
know?
Natasha Rai (30:55):
But I'm curious about that.
Tina know, like, do you feellike when you, I know it must be
hard because you are theirparent, but also seeing how
they've changed over time andwhat interests them at different
points and how, but not thatyou're using your children in
your books, but Mm.
What occupies different atdifferent times?
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (31:15):
Mm.
Yeah.
I think it's been.
Well, in respect to the Wild Zooseries, it's, you know, she's
got quite a unique life.
And I specifically, uh, Iremember there was a question
early on in one of the editsand, um, someone said, well,
wouldn't you just have a phone?
(31:35):
And I was like, no, once you,and I was like, well, no.
I mean, she's 11 lots of 11 yearolds, probably her phones.
But you know, she also likelives in a zoo and still like
around, you know, I just.
Once you introduce a phone andtechnology like that, I don't, I
don't see how you can make the Aplot worth anything really,
(31:55):
because you can just use thephone to Google the answer or
call for help.
Do you
know what I mean?
Like there's no drama.
Where's the conflict?
You get out of it all'cause youcan just ring.
Madeleine Cleary (32:06):
So Tash, is this something, do you think
you're gonna start intentionsetting for your future
episodes?
Natasha Rai (32:13):
Yes, I think so because it's been really helpful
for me and I know that.
Some of the feedback we've hadfrom listeners, they like it
too.
So yes.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (32:20):
Please do in tuned and then we can also chat
about it in our catchups.
Yeah, lovely.
We can stick to theme.
Oh my goodness.
Look at us.
We can try.
We can try.
Alright, we're gonna do littleshort tips.
Uh, Tina.
Take us away.
Oh gosh.
Tina Strachan (32:35):
Okay.
Well, uh, my top tip forauthors, uh, or anybody really
is, uh, when they're feeling alittle bit overwhelmed, which I
know is hard to identifysometimes, but I'm gonna go with
my nature paving.
There's lots of papers on it, ifyou wanna, or just articles if
you want to look it up.
(32:56):
It's an actual term.
It does.
Actual measurable change to yourbody.
And I mean, you can listen to apodcast, you can listen to some
music or something while order,or, or an audio book, or can
literally just go outside andlisten to nature, whatever that
may be for you.
Um, and you know what?
Even if you don't have that, youcan, um, there's.
(33:18):
Lots of audio that you can getfrom, oh, you can get it for
free, just even on like YouTubeand stuff like that.
But, you know, um, on, you know,if you've got any of those music
apps, uh, they have some lovelynature sounds and even that is
pro like, actually proven to behelpful.
So five minutes, 10 minutes evenif that's all that you can do,
it's, it's scientificallyproven.
(33:39):
Get out there, take some deepbreaths.
Madeleine Cleary (33:42):
Love that.
And I'm just gonna add onto thatOcean swims as well if you can.
I mean it's a privilege, right?
It's bit of a luxury.
It's a luxury.
But if you get that opportunity,take it.
I felt so, so good after thoseocean swims.
And I had,'cause I went quiteearly in the morning and a lot
of the surfers there at Noosawere um, you know, in their
wetsuits and a couple of them.
(34:03):
'cause I was just in my bathers,um, what do you call them in
Queensland?
Dogs.
Dogs.
Dogs.
Yeah.
No, what Bathers as well.
Yeah.
And, um, they were like, ohgosh, you are brave.
Like going in without a wetsuit.
I'm like, I'm a Melbourne Ian.
I'm from Melbourne.
Yeah.
Natasha and if you don't havethe ocean, you can have just a
cold shower.
(34:24):
Cold shower.
Yes.
Yeah, I've heard about this andthe whole, like I used to cold
shower.
I was during summer, I probablywill go back to that like one
minute.
I just stand under a coldshower.
It's most, most supposed tobring out like brown fat or
something.
It's not Oh, oh call It didn'theard that.
It's not a thing.
Is that not a thing?
I dunno.
Never.
I'm gonna to Google it afterthis.
(34:44):
Apparently brown fat is verygood for you.
x (34:47):
Oh,
Madeleine Cleary (34:48):
it like builds, like I, I don't think, I
think it's like a term, I don'tthink it's an actual thing, but
it's meant to like help you withlike building, um, you know,
your good immunity and goodmental health and like all, I
think that's what the term'scalled.
And if not, then just ignoreeverything I'm saying this no
Natasha Rai (35:06):
actual medical
Tina Strachan (35:07):
advice
Madeleine Cleary (35:07):
given
Tina Strachan (35:08):
here.
Exactly.
Natasha Rai (35:09):
Don't listen to us.
Um, so my tip wasn't about theshow, but I just thought I'd add
it in my tip because I've beenso immersed in emerging writers,
um, world lately, especiallyreading some of the entries for
this prize that I'm judging.
Please, writers out there,double, triple, check your work
before you submit because it isreally heartbreaking as a judge
(35:32):
when you read a piece that'sreally good.
And then there are some.
Errors that you can easily fix,like tense changes, um, spelling
errors.
And I know that, you know,sometimes with deadlines in life
you don't have time, but I thinkit's better that you don't
submit if you really are rushedthan to submit something that's
not up to your, like a, a goodstandard because.
(35:55):
You know it, it's just, it's,yeah.
As a judge, I'm like, no, thisis so good.
But please, if only you had justtaken a bit of time.
So time, there's that theme.
Take some more time and justcheck your work, please before
you submit.
Especially to competition.
Madeleine Cleary (36:10):
Love it.
Well, that's an excellent way tofinish.
All right, ladies, thank you somuch.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Tina Strachan (36:17):
Alright, talk.
We're gonna go have a coldshower now,
or an ocean swim.
You could.
We couldn't actually.
You probably could too.
Tash?
Natasha Rai (36:27):
No.
I'll just stick with a coldshower.
Madeleine Cleary (36:34):
Hi, it's Madeleine here.
A quick update about the bookdeal podcast.
So after a year of our podcastand 51 episodes, we're looking
to grow our community.
If you've been enjoying theshow, I wanna help.
Keep us bringing youconversations about the writing
life.
We'd love for you to join ourPatreon for the cost of just a
coffee per month.
Your contribution will be goingdirectly to cover the costs of
(36:57):
our podcast, and it also meanswe'll be able to keep paying our
sound producer Brogan.
We've got lots of excitingthings planned for our patrons,
and we can't wait to share moreas it all unfolds.
So if you'd like to come alongfor the ride, head to
patreon.com/the book dealpodcast, or just click on the
link in our show notes.
And we'd love to have you onboard.
(37:18):
Thanks so much for listening andfor being part of the Book Deal
Podcast family.
Tina Strachan (37:26):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new EPS drop and to keep
up to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
This is the Book Deal podcast where you will
discover the inspiring storiesbehind your favorite books.
Natasha Rai (00:15):
We interview seasoned and debut authors, as
well as publishing industryprofessionals to bring you the
best tips and advice on how toget that elusive
Tina Strachan (00:24):
book deal.
So no matter what's.
Stage of writing your at.
We've got you covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And I'm Natasha Rai.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
deal at a
Madeleine Cleary (00:38):
time.
The book Deal podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners, the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Hello, ladies.
Why Hello there.
(00:59):
Hi.
It's been a long time sincewe've caught up.
We were just saying it'sprobably been a couple of months
and I reckon we've got lots ofthings to update each other on.
I really, I think so.
There's been a lot happening.
So much happening.
And I see you both in Melbourneas well, which has been so
exciting.
So.
Mm-hmm.
Tash and I, we had a, a lunchyesterday that started at 1230
(01:21):
and ended at 7:30 PM
x (01:24):
Love it.
Madeleine Cleary (01:25):
Which is awesome.
Um, but Tina, tell us about yourupdates.
'cause you've literally launcheda book in this time.
Tina Strachan (01:32):
I have, I think since I spoke to you last.
Yes.
Uh, I have I, Nika and TheStorm.
So I booked two of the WilderZoo series and.
Uh, yeah, so that came out inJuly, but it was a bit of a, I
had a, a longer sort of launchperiod, um, which culminated in
a couple of weeks ago inMelbourne at Melbourne Zoo,
(01:54):
launching it there with lions atthe window and yeah, snakes all
my favorite and, and snakes and,and, um, yeah, someone, someone
did a post and it was like, oh,coffee and biscotti and snakes.
I was like, I haven't had thatat a launch before.
Um, but it's.
Super fun and, um, hanging outwith all my favorite author,
friends, and favorite.
Family and um, and, uh,Catherine Collette also very,
(02:20):
um, lovingly came and, andhelped me be my book launch
buddy and, uh, my beautifulpublisher, Lisa Berryman.
So it was so nice'cause just tohang with that crew down there.
'cause I always see everybody inMelbourne and in Sydney have
these awesome get togethers.
So it's so nice to come downand, and, and meet them for a
little bit too.
So that was really good.
Madeleine Cleary (02:40):
It was a packed event too.
It was, it had such a good vibeon the day.
Like you really pulled a crowd,Tina, and there was so much love
and support for you in the room.
Um, and we were just reflectingearlier, like it was wonderful
that your publisher, LisaBerryman.
Also came to that.
Yeah.
And I think just seeing hersupport of you was really
(03:00):
fantastic as well.
Tina Strachan (03:02):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it was lovely to see herbecause yeah, she does live so
far away.
Um, and everyone, you know, theweather was terrible that
weekend.
It was so bad.
It's Melbourne.
It was so, I think I know, butit was worse than normal.
There was like.
Sheep grazes warnings.
Like people were legit gettingwarnings that their sheep could
die.
(03:22):
And I was like leaving the GoldCoast with the blue sky and the
24 degrees.
And
Madeleine Cleary (03:27):
you kept sending me, uh, like both of us
saying photos of, um, theMelbourne weather, like just a
snip of the Melbourne weather.
And I think I was in, I was inNoosa.
I was like, you are like, Idon't care.
Tina Strachan (03:36):
I was like, sort this Madeleine, I'm coming to
Melbourne.
Sort this please.
Natasha Rai (03:41):
I still had intense FOMO that I couldn't make it for
that.
It looks so good.
Can you do one in Sydney pleaseat Targa Zoo?
I'd love to.
Oh, I have
Tina Strachan (03:47):
plans.
Natasha
Natasha Rai (03:49):
plans.
Yeah, you could do it like withthe giraffes in the back.
Oh,
Tina Strachan (03:53):
I know, I know.
We'll have giraffes on the coverof all the WA Zoo books, so
it'll be only be fitting.
So Yes.
Um, it was busy and itculminated in that, which was
just a lovely, beautifulweekend.
And um, yeah, so it was, it waslong launch period, but it was
lots of fun.
Madeleine Cleary (04:10):
There was a baby giraffe too.
Speaking of giraffes, this, didyou see baby giraffe
Tina Strachan (04:14):
noodle?
Madeleine Cleary (04:14):
Is that noodle?
Tina Strachan (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The cutest thing ever.
I know.
So sweet.
Cute.
Oh, but Madeleine tell me, you,you had to have gone to the
butterfly house, right?
Madeleine Cleary (04:26):
Oh my gosh.
So yes.
Did you?
Yes, of course.
And I was there with my niecesand they, that was their
favorite part.
The butterfly house.
It's one of my favorites too.
So gorgeous.
We had so many beautifulbutterflies landing on us.
It was very special.
And I don't suppose you had acopy of the butterfly women
there.
I did not.
I should.
I should.
I've just like, I should havedone some book promo.
(04:46):
Like I should have thoughtabout, you know, Jessica Box's
advice in the last episode,which is the piece to camera
piece, you know?
Yeah.
Done some promos, scheduled somecontent, time boxed.
Yeah.
All that kind of stuff.
But I did it, so I love the timebox.
I know, I know.
Um, and Natasha, I went to yourevent yesterday at the Merging
Writers Festival in Melbourne.
I just love that both of you'rejust coming to me like I don't
(05:07):
have to go.
It's handy.
And that was a fabulous event.
So many people, that would'vebeen like over a hundred people
in the room.
I know, I was,
Natasha Rai (05:15):
I'm glad I didn't know that going in.
Um, because I was,'cause we werejust in this little green room,
Tina, and they took us through,like the building.
So I didn't actually get to seethe space at all.
I had no concept of what it Oh,wow.
And I was asking one of them,I'm like, so what?
Like what is it?
Is it like just a room?
Is it like a theater style?
And they were like, oh, it'skind of long and skinny.
(05:36):
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Um, so when we actually came onstage, I was a bit taken aback.
I was like, oh, oh my God.
Okay.
Yeah.
But it was good because they hadproper spotlight.
So, which means I couldn'treally see lots and lots of
people.
Mm.
I could just kind of see thefirst few rows handy.
And then I did get side of, of,of Mads in the crowd and I was
like, yes, there she is.
Okay, good.
(05:57):
I'll feel better.
Madeleine Cleary (05:58):
And it was so funny because, um, I think you
mentioned the book Deal podcaston stage and then Christine
Newell, who was sitting with us,she did a woo woo.
Oh, did she, Christine on you.
And you heard that, didn't you?
Natasha Rai (06:11):
I did.
I heard that faintly.
And I remember at the timegoing, I hope that was a whoop
whoop, but not a boo.
x (06:17):
Never, never.
But,
Madeleine Cleary (06:19):
but Natasha was facilitator.
She was the moderator and shewas amazing.
So skills on show.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and obviously you are a veryskilled interviewer.
You, you interviewed the bookdeal, but you also do so many.
So anyone who's wanting to bookNatasha Rye in for future
moderating gigs, you can contacther via website by the book Deal
Podcast, Instagram.
(06:39):
Thank you.
I love how you promote us,Madeleine.
That I know.
I know.
Always, always.
Actually we were both pitchingeach other at bookshops all over
Melbourne as well.
Tina Strachan (06:49):
Work you gotta do, go pretending to be each
other's publicist and just belike, oh, Madeleine's publicist.
Here she is.
Natasha Rai (06:57):
I'd love to be work publicist.
I, I think I, you'd so good atit.
Oh my gosh.
Mm-hmm.
You've just got so much driveand so much like oomph.
Half the time I'm like, coweringbehind the bookshelves and you
are like going up big.
Hello.
Um, have you got, and it's justso awesome to see you in action.
Tina Strachan (07:13):
What about you Madeleine?
You, what's your update?
You have been
Madeleine Cleary (07:16):
super busy as well.
Mm.
I think actually this probablyleads into what we wanna talk
about, which is burnout forriders.
Um, and, you know, we never,ever stick to theme when we have
our catch ups, but I think thisis an important one to talk
about and to stick to theme thisthis week.
Um, I, I don't know.
I just think that, um, the lasttwo months have been incredibly
(07:40):
busy and tough.
Um, you know, lots of thingsgoing on in my personal life and
health wise and compoundingwith, you know.
An enormous amount of stillpublicity and events, which I'm
so grateful for and I absolutelylove doing.
And you don't wanna ever say noto things as well.
I'm sure you both find that too.
And you know, I think a lot ofpeople outside the book world
(08:02):
sort of said to me or just, youknow, just take it a bit more
easier and say no, and, and putboundaries, but you just, you
don't want to because you neverknow.
It dries up quickly, doesn't it?
I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You want those opportunities.
So like, for example, last week,um.
I had a, a throat infection inconjunctivitis, hence why I'm
(08:22):
wearing my glasses.
Um, and lots of things going on.
But, um, you know, Sydney, um,bad Crime Writers Festival was
on and I was traveling and, um,I was very close to pulling out
because I was so sick.
But in the end decided to go andI have no regrets, but it does
take a toll on your body andyour mm-hmm.
(08:43):
You know, health and, and allsorts of things.
Um, particularly'cause you know,a lot of these festivals, you,
you do one panel, but it's alsoall the energy you give.
It's a lot of energy.
Yeah.
So I guess, yeah, I'm curious toknow what your perspectives are
on this.
'cause I think all of us havebeen incredibly stretched and
busy.
(09:04):
Mm-hmm.
Um, we all have our day jobs,our personal lives, and our
writing lives since publication.
So how do we like, yeah, how dowe find a new normal?
And I don't know, Natasha, youseem like a, a good person.
You've a calm, authoritativevoice on this.
Natasha Rai (09:23):
I dunno about that, but I can, I can talk about what
I'm figuring out because Ihaven't figured it out yet.
Um, so like you, Madeleine, likethere's, there's been some
festival stuff.
There's been some intensivetraining I've been doing for my
counseling work and then.
I'm also judging, um, a prize.
So I've got entries to read andwhat I started to realize was,
(09:44):
like, you, I don't wanna say no,um, but one thing that helped me
when I was saying yes, was tosee how it looked in terms of my
time commitment for each thingand really, um, getting a sense
of where the overlaps were.
And going right in those timesof overlap, like for example,
I'm gonna have to read thesethree books plus start reading
(10:05):
the entries for this prize atthe same time.
So there was one weekend whereI'm gonna be doing both.
So what I did was write, okay, Ican't do any social stuff that
weekend and it's not a sacrificeit, I chose to do this.
Um.
So that helps me when I can lookand see what's coming up and
(10:26):
then plan accordingly.
Um, the other thing I know iswhat my signs are for coming up
to burnout.
Mm.
So as soon as that those signscome up, I do things that I know
are going to be good for me.
And I don't want to turn thisinto a full counseling session,
but there's a real distinctionbetween doing things that are
self care and doing things that.
(10:47):
Enable you to keep going at thepace that you're going'cause
they're not the same.
Um, self-care is about genuinelylooking after yourself or
finding a way to give your bodyand your mind a break.
Um, the other, which I callmanagement strategy is to enable
you to do things at the frefrenetic pace or whatever it is
that you're doing, which doesn'tactually give you a break.
(11:11):
So,
Tina Strachan (11:12):
so what would be some good
Natasha Rai (11:13):
examples of that?
So I know, so obviously, youknow, people always think about
burnout or maybe they don't, Idon't know.
There's a common conceptionmaybe that with burnout you can,
if you only could take some timeoff, right?
You could just take some timeoff to rest and then you'll feel
better.
And yes, that is true.
And if you have the luxury orthe ability because you have,
um, sick leave, stress leave,whatever, you can do that.
(11:35):
But if you don't, um, it's aboutfinding glimmers.
So it's like going.
I exercise every single day.
For example, I'm not talkingabout me.
This could be a person.
And so you go two days a week,I'm actually going to choose to
sleep in or I don't exercise.
And when I do, I feel better.
So three days a week I'm gonnado a 10 minute walk.
It's just little glimmers.
(11:56):
And if you find that the thingyou're trying to do for yourself
is actually putting more demandon you in any way, like it's
taking up your energy, it'sfeeling like a different chore,
it's probably not going to beself-care.
And it doesn't have to be a fullon thing.
It can literally be, as I said,glimmers.
So going to bed a bit earlier ifyou can, or getting up a bit
(12:18):
later if you can.
All those little things thatgive your body just a bit of
some space essentially.
Madeleine Cleary (12:27):
I love this.
I think this is great.
Do you know I was in the cartoday?
Um.
On, on my way to a picnic, afamily picnic for my dad's
birthday, and I was writing mydad's card in the car, like
literally on the way while myhusband was driving, and I just
(12:48):
had this feeling.
Inside.
'cause we just, we had, we wererunning late, we were racing to
get all the food for the picnicand pack everything and have it
all right.
And I'd been doing writing inthe morning and planning
podcasting stuff and you know,you get pulled in so many
different directions.
And then I'm hurling writingthis birthday card for my dad.
And I had this feeling in thepit of my stomach.
(13:10):
I'm like, what am what?
How have I got to this pointwhere, you know, your time is.
So constrained and you'refeeling so I, I felt really flat
and, and part of me was like,oh, I just wanna, I just wanna
go home and just spend the wholeday.
Just have our day of justwriting and just so I can focus
on the, on the work and get thework done.
(13:32):
But, and so this is what I wassaying to my husband.
Went to the picnic, sat in thesun, played with my nieces.
We went for a nice bush walkdown by the river.
Um, we laughed.
We had a nice lunch.
Beautiful.
Um, three hours of that and Ifelt a thousand times better for
it.
Mm-hmm.
And so it is almost like thethings that you think you need
(13:54):
to help with the burnout mightactually not be.
Natasha Rai (13:57):
Yeah.
Because even that idea, um,Madeleine, about, I wish I could
have some time to write that's.
It's a double edged swordbecause the, that is the thing
that's leading to maybe feelingof fatigue or burnout.
And that is also the thing thatnourishes.
But sometimes you just have totake a pivot and it's not
forever.
Like, you know, these thingsdon't, if you look after
(14:18):
yourself or if you know how tolook after yourself, they don't,
they kind of pass.
Madeleine Cleary (14:22):
Mm-hmm.
What
Tina Strachan (14:23):
about you, Tina?
I was just thinking when youwere talking about, um,
Madeleine like being outside andbush walking and um, being in
the sun and there's.
I think there are a couple ofthings.
Like one is just keeping itsimple.
Hey, sometimes, like, sometimesgo, maybe I'll go and get a
massage or maybe I'll go for asoak or I need to meditate.
Never done it before, but surelythat's what will get fix me.
(14:44):
Um, and it's, there's thatconcept of nature bathing, which
you've both probably heard ofbefore.
Mm-hmm.
And honestly, just a, a walk inoutside, even if it's just
outside, even if you don't livein.
Near somewhere where there'sbush, but surely just fresh air
and sunshine.
Or if you're in Melbourne rain,um, and lots of wind.
(15:04):
No, no, I, I know that it'slovely there.
Um, but yeah, being out in thesun and just breathing in some
fresh air.
And making it simple.
Right, and really achievable.
And just what you have thereright now.
And maybe it is just taking abath or, exactly.
I actually have like multipleshowers in a day and it's all
just part of how I work.
I try not to, if the day's goingwell, that's fine, but I just
(15:25):
get in spaces where I need likea circuit breaker from me.
For me to get to one place tothe other.
As in like, um, a thoughtprocess in my brain, it clears
my brain because as we all know,you go in the shower, there's
nothing much else you can do inthere except for shower things.
Um, which, which are, yeah,normally things that will, um,
and I find it calming.
(15:46):
Some people might not, but, um,yeah, so even a nice shower,
some nice smelly soap.
Um, keeping it simple, maybe.
Madeleine Cleary (15:54):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated
at all.
Tina Strachan (15:56):
Mm.
Madeleine Cleary (15:56):
And you know what?
You've actually, I think,connected something here, Tina,
which is like the shower and thebath is a way of doing nothing
and almost like hanging out withmy family.
It's not like it's doingnothing, but it actually, it's
easy.
Makes you focus on somethingwhich is not all those other
thoughts that are going aroundin your head.
And all those other hats that wewear, like when you are talking
(16:18):
with a 3-year-old, um, yourfocus is very much on the ducks
and the water and the lake andall those types of things.
She actually said to me on theswings today, she turned to me
on,'cause we're both on theswings.
She's only at two and a half.
And she says to me, I saw yourbook in the bookshop like this.
That's so cool.
(16:39):
And so just, you know, I thinkpart of me wants to withdraw,
but I think actually part of myself-care is not to withdraw,
it's to, to hang around withpeople that nourish and I think
that's really important.
Mm,
Tina Strachan (16:51):
connection.
Totally.
x (16:52):
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (16:53):
Yeah.
I love that idea.
Madeleine Cleary (16:55):
So you are all feeling well and, okay.
Are you at all close to burnoutor you're feeling good?
I'm gonna check, check in withyou both.
Oh.
Tina Strachan (17:05):
I think I'm doing, um, okay now, I think
that as soon after I got backfrom Melbourne after the book
launch and like we're kind ofsettled from that, I really felt
just all of a sudden one day Ijust kind of stood there and I
just looked at my husband and Iwas like.
I don't feel like I have to haveto do something right now.
Like I've, I mean, I do alwayshave stuff to do, but I don't
(17:25):
feel like this massive weight onme.
I almost just feel like I've gota bit of time.
It's so not time, but mentalspace.
x (17:33):
Mm.
Tina Strachan (17:33):
Um, I think just everything just lifted and I.
Feel like there's a little bitof downtime now, which is, which
is nice.
Um, really nice.
But I think sometimes you don'trealize how close you're getting
to burnout or how overwhelmedyou are until it, until
afterwards and you go, wow, thatwas what a.
What a change in brain space,so.
(17:54):
Mm-hmm.
I think that's the other thing,right?
Is that some people don'trealize when you're getting
close to that because it justcreeps up on you.
And, um, yeah.
What are some of the signs,Tash, that they just, you're
taking on too much?
Natasha Rai (18:05):
Um, so some of the signs are things, well, the
obvious ones being really tired,um, not being able to focus on
things that you all always foundeasy to do, or finding things
really onerous, like the thoughtof.
Dinner or the thought of doing ashop or the thought of going to
work, whatever it feels likethey're huge, huge tasks that
(18:26):
suggests that you are just, yourbody is just using up too much
energy to keep you alive, to doall of that other work.
Um, a sense of depression.
So not like depression isdifferent, but that idea of that
feeling depressive, like, thisis really hard.
I can't really do anything.
A lot of self-loathing orcriticism that's really common.
Like, you know, I can't do this.
Why am I so hopeless?
(18:47):
Why?
And especially if that's not afamiliar thing or that's
creeping in a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And the, this is a catch 22 aswell.
The more you doubt yourself, themore mistakes you make.
That's another sign thatburnout's on the way or that you
are in burnout because you domake more mistakes.
And the more mistakes you makeis again, the self-fulfilling,
um, kind of prophecy and, um.
(19:10):
Lack of like different changesin appetite and sleep.
The big ones too, if you'reeating too much, you're not
eating at, you know, at all.
Or, and of course the body willshow you like infections getting
sick.
Like if you get sick frequentlyin a short space of time.
Especially looking at you,especially things like colds and
(19:32):
sore throats, they're, they'requite common in burnout.
Um.
Random aches and pains.
Mm.
It's just because when we'restarting to stress, we hold our
bodies differently, and then westart carrying stress in
different parts of the body.
So it it, if you don't know yoursigns, that's okay.
Um, what you can do is if you doget into burnout, you can start
to do a reverse map of when didI start feeling something?
(19:54):
If you, if you don't even knowwhat the something is, just
figure out when did thingschange.
x (19:58):
Yeah.
DJ Taylor (20:03):
Hi, I'm Di Taylor, author of the YA historical
fiction novel, Anna's War.
My pen name is DJ Taylor.
The story of Anna's war began along time before I wrote a
single word.
It began in southern Holland inthe final brutal years of World
War ii.
I was inspired by the real lifememories of my parents-in-law
(20:24):
and a friend of theirs.
They're childhood recollectionsof Nazi occupation resistance,
and the courage just to survive.
My mother-in-law's father hid ina secret cellar beneath the
family home while soldierspatrol the streets above
arresting able-bodied men andtransporting them to work in
German factories.
(20:45):
These German factories werefrequently bombed by the allies.
The emotional heart of Anna'swar rests in the true stories of
silence, fear, and defiance.
As the Nazis tighten their grip,Anna's world becomes smaller,
darker, and infinitely moredangerous.
Though Anna's journey isfictional, the world she lives
(21:06):
in and the choices she makes arerooted in real life acts of
bravery and sacrifice.
Anna's War was released on 2ndof July and is published by
Riveted Press.
Riveted Press has the taglinewhere unforgettable stories are
forged, and I hope if you readAnna's War, it'll be a story
(21:27):
that will stay with you longafter you have read it.
Madeleine Cleary (21:35):
The focus thing I think really resonated
with me, um, because I'm prettygood at focusing on tasks
generally, but I definitelyfound, because I went to Noosa
recently for a week and I don'tthink I quite realized how close
I was to burn out until I wentaway and stopped.
As well.
Sometimes when you do have thatand every single morning I was
(21:56):
exercising, I was going for aswim, I was reading books and
being able to focus for hours onbooks.
And that is something I don'tthink I can do in a normal like
day to day at the moment becausethere is just so much going on.
Um, so what I have done, I'veactually deleted a lot of my
like social media apps againfrom my phone, but I've gone
(22:18):
more than just Instagram.
I've got.
You know, deleted Messenger onmy emails as well from my phone.
So now I can only check emailson my laptop.
Mm, that's a good idea.
Yeah, so I schedule like certainthings.
'cause I just found, I don'tknow if you both find this, I
just get a lot of writer based,author based emails now.
A lot of admin.
x (22:37):
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (22:38):
Um, and I'm not sure where it comes from or
why, but you know, it's just it.
The admin has increased sincebecoming a published writer.
Tina Strachan (22:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it makes sense not to haveit on your phone.
'cause unless you're sittingdown ready to address an email,
why are we checking it likeExactly.
And same as Instagram messagesand even text messages.
Honestly, I, the amount of timesI don't respond back and I feel
horrible about it was because.
I've looked at it like when I'mwalking from my car to the
(23:07):
office or something like, why?
I don't know.
And as a habit, and then Iforget that it's even happened
'cause I can't give it the brainspace.
And then like three weeks laterI go, oh, that's right.
That person messaged me.
And so why did I even look?
Yeah, it's, it makes completesense.
And just to take them all offand, um.
Uh, time block as, um, timeblock, um, Jessica suggested
(23:29):
and, um, just look at it thenwhen you've got the brain space.
'cause
Madeleine Cleary (23:33):
otherwise you are thinking about how you're
gonna respond to it, uh, becauseyou see it pop up and Yeah.
You, you start already thinkingabout it.
Whereas if you just.
Schedule and I've got, now Ischeduled time, I timebox it.
Mm.
Um, after work, I have like inmy calendar now, like an hour
after work to just go through myauthor emails.
x (23:52):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (23:53):
And Instagram messages and that type of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And I've found that has beenhelpful for the focus.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan (23:59):
And the mental load, Hey, because even
sometimes you can open one ofthe many messaging services and
get something that's not greatnews or just confusing news or
just news that you just don'twant to.
Know about right now when you'reabout to walk into work or sit
down and write or something likethat.
And that just totally distractsyou.
So unless you're ready to beprepared for whatever's, um,
(24:20):
coming at you in one of thosemessaging services, then maybe
it's best not to look.
Mm, I'm trying to tell, I'mtalking to myself here too,
like, so I think I'm gonna getoff like, um, because I've even
noticed with Instagram lately,because that's pretty much the
only one that I use, I.
Actually pick up my phone.
And I, I'm, I'm, I kind of don'twanna open it.
Like, I think I just, when yougo, when you're going through
(24:42):
that sort of launch period andstuff, and I didn't do heaps of
stuff on there, but I justwanted to be around for, um,
whenever there's mentions orreviews and acknowledge that,
because I know that it's, it'stime for people to do, to write
these reviews and posts thingsabout your book or your launch
and stuff.
So I wanted to be around to, um,you know, acknowledge that.
Uh, yeah.
But so when that's all sort ofdying down, I, I.
(25:04):
Yeah, I'm really looking at itnow.
I just, because I don't, Iactually don't want to, I just,
I'm kind, sometimes I'm sick ofjust picking up my phone.
Mm.
So I'm going to leave this, uh,interview, interview catch up
and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna dothe same and just, and just take
them all off and.
Time block them.
Natasha Rai (25:22):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the thing is the,the impact of all of that is
creating space.
Mm-hmm.
And then you have more time forconnection, which is, you know,
a lot of pe a lot of us loveconnection with others or
nature.
x (25:34):
Mm-hmm.
Natasha Rai (25:34):
So the irony always is the more you slow down, the
more time and space you docreate.
x (25:39):
Mm-hmm.
Because
Natasha Rai (25:39):
you're, you're able to just.
Really distill down to what isit I need to do?
Because the more you try and do,the more you reinforce, there's
more to be done.
So it just leads you into thisother whole place that's not
helpful.
Tina Strachan (25:52):
Mm-hmm.
It's like when I was talkingmeditation with, um, uh, Jane,
Tara,
Jane
about, uh, manifesting and, uh, she
meditates and yeah, that'ssaying that if.
If you don't have time or youthink you're too busy to
meditate for an hour, thenmeditate for two.
And it's, it really, and I getit, and I know it's practical to
(26:13):
sit down.
And even if you clear your mindfor just like 10, 15 minutes,
it's like, I think to myself, Idon't even have 10, 15 minutes.
Literally my every second of myday is mapped out.
Um, but if you have 15 minutes,it's like, well, maybe I will
save time elsewhere during theday because my brain will be
functioning better and I canfocus better.
(26:33):
So again, time block meditationinto my daily calendar.
Madeleine Cleary (26:40):
Well, th this actually goes very, it segues
really nicely into Tash, yourintention setting, um, episode.
Um, and do you wanna talk alittle bit, I suppose, about
intention setting and what yourplan is around your episodes in
future?
Yes.
So I've
Natasha Rai (26:58):
always set that intention.
Partly for personal selfishreasons.
'cause I was struggling withtime and Sally, in that Sally,
good episode.
She just kept mentioning timeand I'm really latched onto it.
Um, and I just thought that itwould be a really lovely way to
add a bit of, I dunno, to like,to distill or take something
(27:19):
outta the episode that reallytouched me.
Um, so that's, that was what Iwas thinking in terms of the
setting that intention and, andhow.
You can look at a differentaspect of your manuscript or
your writing craft or practice.
Um, especially because at thetime I was flirting on the edge
of burnout.
So, um, I, uh, found that veryuseful even for myself to be
(27:41):
like, okay, what am I doing withmy time?
And I also loved, um, Sally'swhen she talks about her
anchoring her, her story or hernarrative or her plot in time,
because that's just anotherlayer of attention you can bring
to your work.
That was my thinking.
Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (27:57):
Mm.
I'm interested to know aboutanchoring manuscripts and time.
How, how would you go aboutdoing that?
Good question.
Uh,
Natasha Rai (28:06):
so I guess I was, I'm thinking about, um,
onslaught, um, and becausethat's set across different time
periods and each scene I wroteset in different times.
I immersed myself fully intothat.
So what was happening then?
What might have been in theenvironment around these people
then?
(28:27):
Um, and really tried not tocompare, like tried really not
to think about what Arch mightbe experiencing.
That's one of my characters.
And in say, 1997 compared towhat you might be experiencing
in 2024, because it's a hugeamount of time and as soon as
you start comparing, you startwriting it with a different
mindset.
Because you're writing it fromhere back there.
(28:48):
I'm doing things with my handsthat no one can see, so that's
really helpful.
Um, but yeah, I think that theability, I think to get into the
time that you're writing andMadeleine, you must, this must
be something.
You think about, have to thinkabout, right, because you're,
yeah.
Madeleine Cleary (29:03):
And I think you can almost go too far
because, um, I spend a lot oftime t trawling through old
newspapers.
Um, generally mostly on trovebecause it's just so interesting
to anchor yourself in that.
Yeah.
The time period.
Um.
Uh, more recently I was lookingup, for example, I did a deep
(29:26):
dive into mediums who practicemedical diagnosis in, in the
time period of 1870 to 1880 inMelbourne.
So I want a very specific timeperiod and a very specific
thing, and I just uncovered allthis really interesting stuff
and, you know, but I, I spentprobably like two hours just on
(29:49):
that.
Little topic and that littlenugget, um, because I just find
it really intriguing.
So you can, yeah.
But surely
Natasha Rai (29:56):
it gets your mind thinking in a very.
Different specific way that yourcharacters would've thought, or
that's their whole world?
Yes.
That's, and also the
Madeleine Cleary (30:04):
writing, I mean, even writing in the
nineties is different.
The way we spoke in thenineties, the language we used
in the nineties is different toeven now.
And of course, 1870s is verydifferent.
Um, but I, I think as well, likeI, I, um, I, I know it's not
really about.
Well, I guess it is a little bitabout time and Tina writing from
(30:25):
a child's perspective.
Yeah, I was about to say that.
Yeah, I think so.
Tina Strachan (30:29):
I feel like I am still a child, so I find that
very easy to do.
But I do have to say, um, I've,I'm sure there's lots of middle
grade writers who don't havechildren, but geez, it's been
helpful.
I think I like, I dunno if Iwould've been able to connect
enough, like with where they'reat now.
Mm-hmm.
True.
Because it's very different towhere we were at.
(30:51):
But still not like, stillthey're still the same, you
know?
Natasha Rai (30:55):
But I'm curious about that.
Tina know, like, do you feellike when you, I know it must be
hard because you are theirparent, but also seeing how
they've changed over time andwhat interests them at different
points and how, but not thatyou're using your children in
your books, but Mm.
What occupies different atdifferent times?
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (31:15):
Mm.
Yeah.
I think it's been.
Well, in respect to the Wild Zooseries, it's, you know, she's
got quite a unique life.
And I specifically, uh, Iremember there was a question
early on in one of the editsand, um, someone said, well,
wouldn't you just have a phone?
(31:35):
And I was like, no, once you,and I was like, well, no.
I mean, she's 11 lots of 11 yearolds, probably her phones.
But you know, she also likelives in a zoo and still like
around, you know, I just.
Once you introduce a phone andtechnology like that, I don't, I
don't see how you can make the Aplot worth anything really,
(31:55):
because you can just use thephone to Google the answer or
call for help.
Do you
know what I mean?
Like there's no drama.
Where's the conflict?
You get out of it all'cause youcan just ring.
Madeleine Cleary (32:06):
So Tash, is this something, do you think
you're gonna start intentionsetting for your future
episodes?
Natasha Rai (32:13):
Yes, I think so because it's been really helpful
for me and I know that.
Some of the feedback we've hadfrom listeners, they like it
too.
So yes.
Mm-hmm.
Madeleine Cleary (32:20):
Please do in tuned and then we can also chat
about it in our catchups.
Yeah, lovely.
We can stick to theme.
Oh my goodness.
Look at us.
We can try.
We can try.
Alright, we're gonna do littleshort tips.
Uh, Tina.
Take us away.
Oh gosh.
Tina Strachan (32:35):
Okay.
Well, uh, my top tip forauthors, uh, or anybody really
is, uh, when they're feeling alittle bit overwhelmed, which I
know is hard to identifysometimes, but I'm gonna go with
my nature paving.
There's lots of papers on it, ifyou wanna, or just articles if
you want to look it up.
(32:56):
It's an actual term.
It does.
Actual measurable change to yourbody.
And I mean, you can listen to apodcast, you can listen to some
music or something while order,or, or an audio book, or can
literally just go outside andlisten to nature, whatever that
may be for you.
Um, and you know what?
Even if you don't have that, youcan, um, there's.
(33:18):
Lots of audio that you can getfrom, oh, you can get it for
free, just even on like YouTubeand stuff like that.
But, you know, um, on, you know,if you've got any of those music
apps, uh, they have some lovelynature sounds and even that is
pro like, actually proven to behelpful.
So five minutes, 10 minutes evenif that's all that you can do,
it's, it's scientificallyproven.
(33:39):
Get out there, take some deepbreaths.
Madeleine Cleary (33:42):
Love that.
And I'm just gonna add onto thatOcean swims as well if you can.
I mean it's a privilege, right?
It's bit of a luxury.
It's a luxury.
But if you get that opportunity,take it.
I felt so, so good after thoseocean swims.
And I had,'cause I went quiteearly in the morning and a lot
of the surfers there at Noosawere um, you know, in their
wetsuits and a couple of them.
(34:03):
'cause I was just in my bathers,um, what do you call them in
Queensland?
Dogs.
Dogs.
Dogs.
Yeah.
No, what Bathers as well.
Yeah.
And, um, they were like, ohgosh, you are brave.
Like going in without a wetsuit.
I'm like, I'm a Melbourne Ian.
I'm from Melbourne.
Yeah.
Natasha and if you don't havethe ocean, you can have just a
cold shower.
(34:24):
Cold shower.
Yes.
Yeah, I've heard about this andthe whole, like I used to cold
shower.
I was during summer, I probablywill go back to that like one
minute.
I just stand under a coldshower.
It's most, most supposed tobring out like brown fat or
something.
It's not Oh, oh call It didn'theard that.
It's not a thing.
Is that not a thing?
I dunno.
Never.
I'm gonna to Google it afterthis.
(34:44):
Apparently brown fat is verygood for you.
x (34:47):
Oh,
Madeleine Cleary (34:48):
it like builds, like I, I don't think, I
think it's like a term, I don'tthink it's an actual thing, but
it's meant to like help you withlike building, um, you know,
your good immunity and goodmental health and like all, I
think that's what the term'scalled.
And if not, then just ignoreeverything I'm saying this no
Natasha Rai (35:06):
actual medical
Tina Strachan (35:07):
advice
Madeleine Cleary (35:07):
given
Tina Strachan (35:08):
here.
Exactly.
Natasha Rai (35:09):
Don't listen to us.
Um, so my tip wasn't about theshow, but I just thought I'd add
it in my tip because I've beenso immersed in emerging writers,
um, world lately, especiallyreading some of the entries for
this prize that I'm judging.
Please, writers out there,double, triple, check your work
before you submit because it isreally heartbreaking as a judge
(35:32):
when you read a piece that'sreally good.
And then there are some.
Errors that you can easily fix,like tense changes, um, spelling
errors.
And I know that, you know,sometimes with deadlines in life
you don't have time, but I thinkit's better that you don't
submit if you really are rushedthan to submit something that's
not up to your, like a, a goodstandard because.
(35:55):
You know it, it's just, it's,yeah.
As a judge, I'm like, no, thisis so good.
But please, if only you had justtaken a bit of time.
So time, there's that theme.
Take some more time and justcheck your work, please before
you submit.
Especially to competition.
Madeleine Cleary (36:10):
Love it.
Well, that's an excellent way tofinish.
All right, ladies, thank you somuch.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Tina Strachan (36:17):
Alright, talk.
We're gonna go have a coldshower now,
or an ocean swim.
You could.
We couldn't actually.
You probably could too.
Tash?
Natasha Rai (36:27):
No.
I'll just stick with a coldshower.
Madeleine Cleary (36:34):
Hi, it's Madeleine here.
A quick update about the bookdeal podcast.
So after a year of our podcastand 51 episodes, we're looking
to grow our community.
If you've been enjoying theshow, I wanna help.
Keep us bringing youconversations about the writing
life.
We'd love for you to join ourPatreon for the cost of just a
coffee per month.
Your contribution will be goingdirectly to cover the costs of
(36:57):
our podcast, and it also meanswe'll be able to keep paying our
sound producer Brogan.
We've got lots of excitingthings planned for our patrons,
and we can't wait to share moreas it all unfolds.
So if you'd like to come alongfor the ride, head to
patreon.com/the book dealpodcast, or just click on the
link in our show notes.
And we'd love to have you onboard.
(37:18):
Thanks so much for listening andfor being part of the Book Deal
Podcast family.
Tina Strachan (37:26):
Thank you for listening to the Book Deal
podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new EPS drop and to keep
up to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
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