April 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Tina Strachan chats with Sophie Beer, a prolific children's literature author and illustrator. The discussion delves into Sophie's journey in publishing, her passion for inclusivity in writing, and the inspiration behind her middle-grade book, 'Thunderhead,' which features a music-obsessed tween facing the challenges of hearing loss. Sophie also shares valuable insights on how to write inclusively and authentically about characters with disabilities and diverse backgrounds. The episode highlights the importance of well-rounded, three-dimensional characters and offers practical advice for authors aiming to represent diverse experiences thoughtfully and respectfully.
00:00 Welcome to The Book Deal Podcast
00:43 Interview with Sophie Beer: Inclusivity in Writing
03:37 Sophie's Journey
05:47 Balancing Work and Family Life
13:34 Music and Creativity: A Deep Dive
20:00 Thunderhead and the Thunderstorm
20:28 Signed Copies and Bookshops
21:26 Character Inspirations and Personal Experiences
24:22 Introducing 'Inked' by Karen Wasson
25:39 Writing Characters with Disabilities
29:49 Avoiding Inspiration Porn
33:33 Inclusion and Sensitivity in Writing
43:57 The Importance of Trying
45:02 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tina Strachan (00:09):
This is the Book Deal podcast
Madeleine Cleary (00:10):
where you will discover the inspiring stories,
the authors behind yourfavourite books.
No matter what stage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
Tina Strachan (00:26):
deal
Madeleine Cleary (00:26):
at a time.
The Book Deal Podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners of the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Speaker (00:43):
Hi, it's Tina here and I'm very excited for this week's
episode where I had theopportunity to speak with a
lovely Sophie Beer.
Sophie is prolifically publishedin the children's literature
space with both her unique andquirky art and thoughtful,
important storytelling.
I really wanted to chat withSophie to discuss the importance
of inclusivity in writing asthis is something she's very
(01:04):
passionate about anddemonstrates in much of her
work.
We discussed her most recentbook, a middle grade called
Thunderhead, about an awkwardmusic obsessed tween who feels
they're a magnet for bad luck,especially when they're
diagnosed with a geneticdisorder that results in hearing
loss.
Because Thunderhead is a majormusic fan, just like Sophie is
(01:25):
in real life.
We also discuss the impact musiccan have on your life and on
your writing.
And the really cool thing aboutour chat as we discussed her
Thunderhead book, we both hadactual real thunder in the
background as our stormdescended on both of our cities.
It was pretty cool.
I was going to edit it out untilI realized the significance.
(01:46):
I hope you enjoy my chat withSophie and can take away some
tips and advice on how to writeinclusively in the right way.
Tina Strachan (01:53):
Sophie Beer.
Welcome to the book Dealpodcast.
Sophie Beer (01:56):
Oh, thank you.
So delighted to.
Tina Strachan (01:59):
Oh, it's, it's, I am very excited to have you here
and I've, um, always admiredyour work and I have so many
questions to ask you about, um,your journey.
'cause it's been, it's beenquite a big and eventful journey
for you hasn't it, to get tothis point now.
Sophie Beer (02:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it's, um, definitely, yeah,definitely been a few years in
the making.
So yeah, I'm excited to chat itall through because I think this
is the first time I've probablylaid everything out and like
actually examined it.
So it'll be interesting.
Tina Strachan (02:26):
oh, good goodie.
Yes.
And your, your back catalog isincredible.
I, you've written andillustrated everything from
board books to nonfiction to.
You know, picture books to, andnow all the way up to middle
grade with Thunderhead.
Um, and, and they've beentranslated into many different
(02:47):
languages.
I actually couldn't, yeah,there's so many that when I went
to sort of have a little lookand try and work it out, I
actually couldn't get to thebottom of it.
How many you had?
I was looking on Amazon books atone point and there was 10 pages
of Sophie Beer and I was like, Ijust, I don't know where it
starts and.
stops and.
So how, how many have you hadpublished now of individual
(03:10):
books?
Sophie Beer (03:11):
I can't, uh, I should really go through and
count them all one day.
Um, it's upwards of 30.
I know, I know that because I, Idid count them a few years ago.
Um, but yeah, it's, uh, that'scombining like my, my author
illustrated plus my, like, thestuff I've just illustrated.
Um, and even just like smallerstuff that I, maybe I just had a
part in an anthology and stufflike that, so, um, yeah.
(03:32):
Yeah, I've, um, definitely, Ihad my hand in it for a while,
so.
Tina Strachan (03:36):
Yeah.
No, it's awesome.
What year was your first bookpublished?
Because that, this is alsosomething that I tried to find
and I couldn't
Sophie Beer (03:42):
Yeah, so my first ever book, uh, was, um, Wren,
which was published by, uh,scribble Scribble.
It's the amazing scribble booksfrom London, uh, London, sorry,
Melbourne.
Um, and uh, written by KatrinaLayman, who is absolutely
amazing.
And I also illustrated, her bookis Ian Frank.
Um, and that came out in 2018, Ithink, or 2017.
(04:07):
I can't quite remember.
Um, and I'm a bit fuzzy with thedetails on that because like I,
I'm sure we'll get into itlater.
But, uh, so when I wascontracted to do that,
illustrate that book, I got, Ifinished the roughs and I
presented the roughs and wasonto doing the final
illustrations when I gotdiagnosed with my brain tumor.
And so I had to take a year offwork and, um, recover and, and
(04:30):
everything.
So that kind of blew everythingback.
So it was, I, it was meant tocome out in 20.
15 or 16, but it ended up comingout in 2017 or 18.
Um, yeah, so that, that, that islike, that was actually my first
book.
But then I think my first everpublished book was Love Makes a
Family, um, which is a boardbook.
Uh, uh, it was published withHardie Grant.
(04:53):
Um, and that was 2017 or 18 aswell.
I think it, it pipped Wren byjust a few months.
Tina Strachan (05:01):
Okay.
Yes.
'cause I, I was sort of thinking2017, 2018, that's not really
that long ago though, is.
Sophie Beer (05:07):
Yeah.
Like I think that, but then I'mlike, oh, that's almost 10
years.
Tina Strachan (05:12):
It's like when people say that the nineties are
like, how long
Sophie Beer (05:15):
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (05:16):
we're like, oh, hang on.
No, that was just, Yeah, it wasnot that long ago.
Uh, yeah, but still
Sophie Beer (05:21):
I, you know,
Tina Strachan (05:22):
30 published books though in that time is
Sophie Beer (05:24):
I know it's, yeah.
I'm a bit of a workaholic.
It's, yeah, a bit bad, likeit's.
Tina Strachan (05:30):
But it is one of those industries that, um, you
do have to.
Role that when it comes in, youjust have to take what you can
get and and grasp at everything.
Do you think
Sophie Beer (05:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's very zeitgeisty, which is,yeah, it's probably a reason
that I probably work a bit morethan I should.
Um, but I think having kids haskind of slowed that down a bit.
Like I've been able to be a bitmore choosy with my work'cause
I'm only working part-time atthe moment.
And, um, kind of, you know, likeworking as an illustrator.
You have that like starvingartist mentality, you're like,
(06:02):
oh, I, I'm not really passionateabout this project, but I'll
take it on either anyway becauseit's gonna pay the bills.
Um, whereas I feel like nowadaysI can kind of be a bit more
choosy and be like, well, I'monly, I only work three days a
week.
Um, I only have a limited amountof books I can schedule per
year, so I'm gonna have to be abit more choosy about projects
and things like that.
So, um, I mean, that's nice tobe a bit.
A bit chewier, but yeah, I guessit means you end up having less
(06:23):
money, so either being stressedor
Tina Strachan (06:27):
Yeah.
But it is, yeah, I agree.
When you have children, youjust, you time and the value of
time just becomes.
So very clear, doesn't it?
Like you have, you know, you'reworking around nap time and
you're working around, you know,school drop off and pick up and
you can literally just say,okay, this is actually how many
(06:48):
hours I have in a week toproduce something.
And times that over the year,this is only, I can only do X
amount of books or produce Xamount of
Sophie Beer (06:57):
Yeah, yeah,
Tina Strachan (06:59):
just is no more time to give.
It cannot come from anywhereelse.
Sophie Beer (07:02):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's so funny, like, I always
say that to myself and I'm like,I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut down on
the number of things I do, andthen someone will come to me
with a great project and I'll belike, oh, I guess I'm gonna have
to squeeze it in.
And yeah, it's gotta the pointwhere my agent has been like,
Sophie, stop.
Tina Strachan (07:16):
Oh,
Sophie Beer (07:17):
You need to, you need to, you need to stop.
Tina Strachan (07:21):
you just can't stop being so
Sophie Beer (07:22):
calm, calm.
Tina Strachan (07:24):
Oh, I know.
Sophie Beer (07:25):
Which, yeah, it's, it's, I mean, I wouldn't trade
it off for anything in theworld.
Like I, I love my, I love myboys so much, but, um, yeah, it
does, it does, particularly withwomen, it comes at the expense
of, um, you know, being asproductive with work.
I, like, I, I recently startedup at a studio, which has been
really cool, um, in an effort tokind of separate my work and
life balance a bit more.
So I, like, instead of workingat home, because I've, I've been
(07:48):
a freelance illustrator for.
Actually 10 years.
Yeah, it would've been 2015.
I started, um, the end of 2015.
Um, and I've just worked at homefor 10 years and it got to the
point where my youngest, my1-year-old went to daycare, uh,
like.
We've only been there two monthsand I was like, I can't stay at
home by myself.
I'm, I'm gonna go crazy.
(08:09):
I need to, I need to have moreof like a work-life balance, um,
like a separation.
I can't just keep working in, inmy office at home anymore.
So yeah, feel I'm working at astudio with a whole of other
illustrators and, and, um,artists and things like that.
It's, yeah, it's been reallylovely.
But, um, yeah, it, it isdefinitely is very hard'cause
that it puts more time pressure,like you're like, uh.
(08:30):
I do the daycare drop off, thenI have to travel all the way to
the studio, and then I have totravel from the studio to day
daycare drop off, and itcompresses everything a lot.
But, uh, I feel like I'm morefocused that way.
Like, I'm
Tina Strachan (08:40):
say, are you more productive because you're not
just going like, oh, and I'lljust go pop a load of washing on
and hang that out and then kindof get stuck and, yeah, and, and
maybe working with other peopleas well.
Do you find that social and just
Sophie Beer (08:53):
yeah.
Oh.
Yeah, definitely.
My, um, my husband is a medicalprofessional.
He's a, a brain researcher andhe talks a lot about how um, a
risk for dementia with olderpeople is lack of socialization.
Tina Strachan (09:06):
Oh,
Sophie Beer (09:07):
I know I always used to think of that, like when
I was in my studio, well, in mystudio at home, working by
myself, and I'm like, I haven'ttalked to anyone in like two
days, apart from my husband's.
Tina Strachan (09:18):
he
Sophie Beer (09:19):
around other people.
Yeah, just it's nice.
It's nice.
Um, yeah.
But yeah, it does, it doescompress your time a lot.
But yeah, I, I have been a lotmore choosy with my projects
since having kids and, um, yeah,that's been really lovely
because it means I, I'm workingon things I'm really passionate
about and, and, um, working onbooks that I really believe in,
which has been really lovely.
Tina Strachan (09:37):
Yeah.
It must be hard to say nothough, still.
Like how
Sophie Beer (09:41):
hard.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (09:43):
I mean, it's a problem we all want, right?
Sophie Beer (09:46):
I think like for me it also like going back to that
starving artist mentality.
Like I, whenever I turn down ajob, I always think, well maybe,
you know, I won't get anotherjob for, you know, a few months.
So did I just turn down and anopportunity to pay this huge
bill that might come hap thatmight happen.
Um, which is probably, you know,my, my anxious brain just being
(10:07):
silly'cause like.
My husband works in medicine.
He has an extremely stable job.
Tina Strachan (10:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (10:15):
The government is not gonna pay him for, you know,
his research, but you know.
Tina Strachan (10:19):
Yes.
Uh, I don't think you
Sophie Beer (10:20):
Yeah.
Like
Tina Strachan (10:20):
about about jobs coming in.
I think, I mean, for yourself,like, you know, if you're
turning them down and with such,uh, your back catalog and your
portfolio, I'm,
Sophie Beer (10:29):
Oh, that's nice.
Actually, just turned out areally big job, and I felt so
bad about it.
I was, I was just like, I, Ijust looked at my schedule.
I was like, I can't, I can't, Ilegitimately can't do this.
I'll just be too stressed.
And I would rather give thebooks that I'm working on at the
moment, the attention theydeserve instead of trying to be
everywhere at once.
So,
Tina Strachan (10:47):
yeah.
And probably the person, um,who's offered it to you that you
have turned down would preferyou to be open and honest in the
first instance.
Then try and push through andstress yourself and, you know,
maybe not deliver or.
You know, have to sort of pushthose delivery kind of deadlines
and stuff like that to get itdone.
They, you
Sophie Beer (11:05):
Oh,
Tina Strachan (11:05):
probably appreciate the honesty.
Sophie Beer (11:08):
yeah, I, I did the opposite of that when I was
about to go on mat leave.
'cause I got the offer toillustrate the Taylor Swift book
with,
Tina Strachan (11:14):
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Beer (11:16):
Penguin New York, and I was talking to my agent, I
was like, oh, legitimately can'tturn this down.
I love Taylor Swift.
This is amazing.
Tina Strachan (11:23):
Yes.
Sophie Beer (11:24):
when am I ever gonna be offered this look
again?
So I,
Tina Strachan (11:27):
I, was gonna ask you about them.
So that's the, um, little plittle People Big Dreams books.
Was that
Sophie Beer (11:33):
I did Elton John for them.
Yeah.
Little people, big dreams.
Uh, but this one is, uh, it'scalled Tiny Idols.
It's like a
Tina Strachan (11:39):
oh, yes,
Sophie Beer (11:41):
artists.
Yeah.
It's very cute.
Tina Strachan (11:43):
yes.
But I mean, even Elton John forthe Little People Big Dreams.
Um, but it wasn't just, justTaylor Swift though, was it that
you did.
Sophie Beer (11:51):
No, no.
So I did, yeah, I did Elton Johnfor little people big dreams,
which was like a dream cometrue.
'cause I'm such a big Elton Johnfan.
Like I, um, I legitimately like,this sounds fake, but this
actually happened.
I got the email asking me toillustrate that book when I was
on the way to an Elton Johnconcert.
Yeah.
It was like spookysynchronicity.
Yeah, it was,
Tina Strachan (12:09):
Spooky.
Would you, did you just read itthinking this is some kind of,
am I act?
Am I actually dreaming like is.
Sophie Beer (12:14):
I, I, I screamed so loud in the car that people
thought that like, there waslike a semitrailer oncoming into
traffic towards us.
Like it was, I was with mymother-in-law who was like the
loveliest best in the world, butshe's a bit like DIY and a bit
like, whoa.
Tina Strachan (12:27):
Oh, what's
Sophie Beer (12:29):
She was like,
Tina Strachan (12:31):
stressing her out?
Sophie Beer (12:32):
yes.
Tina Strachan (12:33):
no.
Sophie Beer (12:34):
And then there was my, um, my sister-in-law who was
like nine months pregnant atthat time, and she was like, ing
a belly.
I was like, it's all righteveryone.
We're not in imminent danger ofa traffic accident.
I just got a really cool joboffer.
That's all.
Tina Strachan (12:46):
Which deserves screaming though, I really
didn't.
Oh,
Sophie Beer (12:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Tina Strachan (12:50):
that's incredible
Sophie Beer (12:51):
very fun.
With the Taylor and the TaylorSwift, the little, not, sorry,
not little people.
Big dreams in Tiny Idols, whichis the line with, um, penguin
Random House.
They have, there's Taylor Swift,Beyonce.
Um, Harry Styles and I've justfinished bts, Billy Eilish and
I'm working on Ariana Grande.
So yeah,
Tina Strachan (13:11):
BTS.
That's so cool.
Sophie Beer (13:13):
there are seven of them.
Tina Strachan (13:15):
I only, oh
Sophie Beer (13:15):
me seven times longer till
Tina Strachan (13:19):
I only found out about BTS'cause I have an
11-year-old, or it was, youknow, so, um, oh, it was just,
it's just, there was just onesong I think that they used to
play on repeat a couple of yearsago.
I'll have to tell him.
I'll have to tell him about it.
Um, that's pretty cool becausemusic is a big part of your
life, isn't it?
Sophie Beer (13:39):
Yes.
A huge part.
Yes.
So I used to be a music reviewerback long ago, um, in my late
teens, early twenties.
And I was just like the biggestmusic obsessive, um, didn't play
any instruments myself, didn'tsing, couldn't, you know, for
Jack, but, uh, just wouldobsessed with it.
It's like when I think back onthat time in my life, I think of
(13:59):
music and I actually met my nowhusband.
Uh, said, brain expert on, on,uh, a music forum hilariously.
Um, yeah, and then we met at amusic gig.
So I, my, my two sons wouldn'texist if it weren't for my
obsession with music, which iskind of baffling to think about,
Tina Strachan (14:21):
Do you, can I ask you, do you listen to music when
you write or, or, or draw whenyou're
Sophie Beer (14:27):
uh, when I, uh, it depends what I'm doing.
Um.
I find it distracts me a bit toomuch if it's got like lyrics and
stuff like that.
Uh, I kind of just need silencewhen I'm writing because, uh,
yeah, I, I, I get toodistracted.
But if I'm illustrating, like,it depends on the level of
complication, like complexity.
Usually I just, uh, I, I'mlistening to an audiobook or a
(14:48):
podcast.
Um, if it's something I can justlike, kind of, you know, uh.
Spin my brain out and then justlike,
Tina Strachan (14:56):
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (14:56):
just like coloring or something like that.
But if it's something like ifI'm drawing drafting
illustrations or I'millustrating a picture book and
I need to, to be doing likethumbnailing or sketching or
something like that, theninvolves sort of brain power.
I'll, um, I'll be listening toan album Yeah.
But not as much as I used to,which is a bit sad.
Um, which I'm sure Yeah.
We'll, we'll get into because.
Tina Strachan (15:16):
Yeah.
Oh,
Sophie Beer (15:18):
lay all these breadcrumbs down for your
listeners.
Tina Strachan (15:20):
know, I know.
oh, this is,
Sophie Beer (15:22):
What's gonna happen?
Tina Strachan (15:24):
I like it.
Love it.
Stay tuned for more.
Oh, that's pretty exciting.
I listen.
I actually sometimes do andsometimes don't.
Like you said with.
Music and I, um, have beenworking on this one project
recently, and I've never donethis before.
I'm gonna sound crazy.
People are gonna be like, oh,she just has the weirdest
writing style.
I've ne I have never done thisbefore, but it's sort of this,
(15:46):
this book sort of, um, takesplace.
There's a couple of chaptersprobably the last half where
they, um, kind of in, I don't, Ijust, did you hear that thunder?
Yeah, I did actually.
Sophie Beer (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do.
Tina Strachan (16:00):
Yeah, it just, just came rolling
Sophie Beer (16:01):
here too.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (16:03):
I was like, what is that?
Sophie Beer (16:04):
It'll hit me.
It'll hit me in like a few, fewminutes.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (16:07):
we've got the same storm cell coming through.
Um, yeah, so I'm, I am writingthis book at the moment.
It's in sort of two different.
Like another world kind of atthe end.
It's not fantasy, but it's justlike they're, they're in a game
kind of at the end.
And, um, I did this weird thingwhere I felt like whenever they
were in that world, I had to bein a particular zone and a
(16:28):
particular mind frame for it.
So.
I even, but because I keptwanting to progress it, I would
just, I actually wrote the otherchapters around it because I
knew what was gonna happen.
Oh.
that sounds really weird.
I knew what was gonna happen inthose other world scenes.
I knew how it was gonna feel atthe end of it.
I knew what was gonna happen inthem.
I just had to write them so Icould write the other I.
In between chapters.
(16:48):
So when I had to, when I waswriting that in another World
chapters, I had to stream aparticular kind of music and be
in a particular kind of areawhere I could a hundred percent
focus.
But it was like, if I turned iton, it was like a switch and it
just, I could have written itwithout the music, like I
probably could have pushedthrough, but it certainly made a
huge difference.
As soon as I turned it on, itjust like kind of got me in that
(17:09):
space and it's, I couldn't havewritten it without it.
It's so music's really powerfullike that, isn't it?
Sophie Beer (17:14):
Mm-hmm.
Like, I've done so many writingcourses where, um, the, the
mentor will say something like,if you're stuck on a particular
scene.
Put on an a song that matches orgives you that same emotion that
you're trying to elicit in thereader, which I've never
actually tried to do that.
Um, yeah, like I said, I prefersilence when I'm writing.
But, um, yeah, that doesn'tsurprise me.
'cause music kind of tips intothat, like.
(17:35):
Limbic system in your brainwhere it's like, it's like
almost lizard brain, like, youknow, um, it's, it, it's on
another plane of reality.
It's not really connected tosurface emotions, it's something
deeper.
Uh, so yeah, it's, it's, it'sfunny how your, your mind is
kind of associated that with,with that particular scene you
are writing and you're like, I,yeah.
This is the, the part of mybrain that needs to be writing
(17:56):
in charge when I'm writing thisbit.
It's, yeah, it's
Tina Strachan (17:58):
yeah.
yeah.
If it ever sees the light ofday, hopefully it does this book
that I'm working on at themoment, um, you'll, I think, I
think you'll see why if you readit, you'll be like, um, I can
see that.
But um, yeah.
I have playlists as well.
Yeah.
Thunder.
Um, it was really loud.
I have playlists as well that Icreate Oh, for books, even if I
haven't quite written them yet.
(18:18):
And I've done that for oh, looksnice.
I like the em.
Yeah.
And sometimes I'll listen tothem when I'm driving.
Um, I've had to do lots ofBrisbane trips lately.
It's two two hours each way atthe moment, and it's horrifying.
But anyway, it does give me agood chance to listen to that
music.
And it, honestly, it just playsout scenes in my head, so and so
clearly, and then all I have to,all I have to do is write it
(18:41):
down.
Simple.
It's simple as that.
Sophie Beer (18:44):
I think it's'cause it's kind of like music can be
this sort of like little snippetof emotion, you know, stuffed
into a, stuffed into a word filea word, um, sorry, uh, sound
file.
And it's, it's, it kind of,accessing those emotions is so
easy when you just cross playand it's.
Automatically there.
Um, there are so many times thatI've had a song associated with,
you know, a particular feelingor, you know, like when you get
(19:05):
the goosebumps on your arms andyou listen to the song and you
can always access that feelingjust by pressing play.
It's just like you always getthe goosebumps or you always
feel that particular emotion andit's, yeah, it's so cool.
But I love that idea of likeforming worlds around playlists.
That's really cool.
I
Tina Strachan (19:18):
I've heard, yeah, I've heard that some people
have, like, some authors havelike Spotify lists that they
tell their, you know, readersabout if they want to sort of
delve into it a little bit more.
Sophie Beer (19:29):
Yeah, it's lovely.
Oh, like, oh, like, um, uh, filmscores.
Yes.
Tina Strachan (19:34):
yeah, yeah.
It's like a soundtrack.
And I think,'cause I see movies,I see books in my, stories in my
head, like a movie as well.
It just sounds like a backinglist for it.
It's, Yeah.
it's
Sophie Beer (19:43):
so cool.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (19:44):
But, um, in your middle grade book that you've
just released, Thunderhead,
Sophie Beer (19:51):
Yay.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (19:52):
it's been out, it's been out for a couple of
months now, hasn't it?
Sophie Beer (19:55):
Yeah, since, um, uh, early, oh, late October last
year,
Tina Strachan (19:59):
Okay.
Sophie Beer (20:00):
so October, 2024.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (20:01):
So the thunderhead, uh, the character
in your book, uh, and the wholebook.
Ooh, there's your thunder.
See,
Sophie Beer (20:08):
that's my thunder.
Yeah.
Whoa, Thunderhead.
Tina Strachan (20:13):
Oh my
Sophie Beer (20:13):
all coming together.
I actually arranged this withthe
Tina Strachan (20:16):
are so good.
I was gonna cut the thunder out,but now I'm like, no, this is,
I'm keeping this thunder
Sophie Beer (20:23):
cinematic.
Tina Strachan (20:24):
This is perfect.
Sophie Beer (20:25):
It's our, It's our, soundtrack.
Tina Strachan (20:28):
And it's so funny when I saw you at the, um, the
right links, um, the book linksromancing the stars the other
week, and I was like, I didn'tbring my copy.
I wanted you to sign it for me.
And then I realized, I actuallybought a signed copy anyway when
I bought it from the,
Sophie Beer (20:42):
That's so lovely.
Oh, which workshop was that?
Tina Strachan (20:45):
uh, I always say this wrong kin.
Sophie Beer (20:50):
Yes.
I just say keno.
Okay.
Because I'm, yeah.
I'm not a Sydney, Sydney person,so, yeah.
Oh, that's so lovely.
Oh,
Tina Strachan (20:58):
Yeah.
I'm not a Sydney person either.
Hence why?
We dunno how to say it.
They say it
Sophie Beer (21:01):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (21:02):
Just like Nu
Sophie Beer (21:04):
I, I get out of the way by saying keno.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (21:06):
Nu yeah.
I like that.
Oh, and an incredible shop.
Like I, I went there two days ina row.
It was amazing.
Sophie Beer (21:12):
It's like heaven, isn't it?
It's got a cafe attached.
So it's like you get yourcoffee, just wander around, get
lost in the book maze.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, but
Tina Strachan (21:20):
Sorry, I'm just loving this thunder happening in
the background as we're talkingabout Thunderhead your middle
Sophie Beer (21:25):
so atmospheric.
Tina Strachan (21:26):
October last year, Thunderhead, um, is almost
as obsessed with music as youare.
So there's a little bit of, alot of you in this book, isn't
there?
Uh.
Sophie Beer (21:35):
Yeah.
I kind of, um.
I mean, I, I feel like I'm, I'mpretty dissimilar to the actual
character of Thunderhead, uh,which I did purposely,
purposefully, because I waslike, I don't want my mom or
someone reading this book andbeing like, Sophie just put,
like, put herself in a book.
So I, I tried to, I distinctlytried to separate myself from
the character and then my momread the book and was like, it
(21:56):
was just you, Sophie.
And I was like, dad.
Tina Strachan (21:58):
I know.
Yeah.
I don't think you can get awaywith it.
I've, I've, thought about thatbefore.
It's very hard to write acharacter that's kind of not
you.
Like I've had that question aswell, is, is your character
actually you?
And I'm like, I, well, I triednot to,
Sophie Beer (22:11):
Try not to.
Yeah, I, I mean I guess it's,um, idiosyncra is idiosyncra.
I can never say that word.
You know what I mean?
Uh, they kind of just bleedthrough, like characteristics
and traits bleed through fromyour, from yourself into your
writing.
And it's just
Tina Strachan (22:24):
Without even
Sophie Beer (22:24):
not, avoidable.
Yeah, unavoidable.
Um, but, uh, yeah, soThunderhead is absolutely
obsessed with music pop, likemore than I was, I would say,
which is saying somethingbecause.
I was very obsessed, but musicis like what they live and
breathe and, you know, that'stheir reason for living.
And, uh, then they go on ajourney because they conflict.
(22:50):
They find out that they have agenetic disease, which means
that they're gonna be goingdeaf.
So yeah, that's the, yeah, the,the crux of the book, um, yeah.
A bit sad, but it's a funnybook, I swear.
It's funny.
I hope.
Tina Strachan (23:04):
It is funny.
It is.
It's really, I know you see, youhave to have that conflict in
there, obviously for, you know,to make the book work.
But of course it's, it's how yousort of encapsulate it, sort of
everything else around it andcreate the world around it.
Right.
Sophie Beer (23:17):
Oh definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think like that, the, thehumor of the book really came
from, I.
Because I myself dealt with thesame brain tumor that
thunderhead in the character,the main character the book has.
Um, I don't have the geneticdisease that Thunderhead has.
Um, but I had a, like the sametumor that I have.
(23:38):
Um, so like, and when I wentthrough that, that was, uh, 20
I.
2017, when I went through thatexperience, I found the whole
thing funny.
Like it was horrifying andreally sad, but like there was
just this, this undercurrent oflike dark humor to it all
because it was like.
Of course, the person who isabsolutely obsessed with music
(23:59):
is going to become hard ofhearing, you know, the person
who met their husband on a musicforum is going to lose their
hearing.
Like, it was just kind of like,a bit like funny and ironic and
it was, yeah, I, I just saw thehumor in it.
And, um, I think, yeah, that'swhere that, that kind of, that
gall's humor, the black humorkind of came through that way.
Karen Wasson (24:23):
Hello, I'm Karen Wasson, member of the 2025 debut
crew and author of Inked, AMiddle grade graphic novel from
Hardie Grant's brand newimprint, Figment with brilliant
illustrations by JK Minton.
Inked is a story of Sid Kraken,a 12-year-old boy who just wants
to avoid the bullies, keep hishead down, and get through his
final year at primary school.
(24:44):
But Sid's life is turnedentirely upside down when he
discovers Otto.
A talking and opera singingoctopus in his family's fish
shop.
Otto is obnoxious, demanding,and won't leave Sid alone until
he helps him get to the oceanroughly 300 kilometers away.
Plus, Sid has bigger fish tofry.
He has to figure out how to getinto the art school of his
(25:07):
dreams or else high school.
Next year will be a nightmare.
Canid and Otto find a way towork together or will it all end
in full blown disaster.
Filled with slapstick humor andheart inked is a story about
blending in and standing out andis available now in all good
bookstores and libraries.
(25:27):
I hope you enjoy this small townbig time adventure, and a huge
thank you to the Book Dealpodcast for this wonderful
opportunity to share.
Tina Strachan (25:39):
one of the main reasons why I wanted to, um,
chat to you today as well about,you know, Thunderhead and you,
it, it was such a wonderfulstory and the way that you, um,
that Thunderhead sort of workedthrough everything and very much
for that age group.
'cause she's 12, turning 13.
Sophie Beer (25:57):
Yes.
12 20 13.
Tina Strachan (25:58):
Yeah.
So, you know, her reactions andeverything to it is exactly, you
know, what kids would, would gothrough as well.
But, um, it all works out in theend, spoiler alert, but without
giving too much away, you know,it's, it was really, you know,
it was just spoke to a lot of,you know, resilience in children
and, and acceptance as well, I
Sophie Beer (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was, um, there's definitelylike a lot of emotions that they
work through, but I think likewith, with something like a
genetic disorder, there's,there's no way I.
I mean, you can have a happyending in that you have that
like radical acceptance thatthat is going to be your life
now.
Um, and like I, I speak from aplace of experience because I
(26:39):
have a genetic condition, butit's not the same one as
Thunderhead has.
It was a different one, whichwas actually what inspired me to
sit down and write the novelbecause I had, that had this
idea of floating around my headfor a few years after I had the
tumor.
And I was like, this would'vebeen so much worse if I was like
in that like 12, 13, 14-year-oldkind of.
Stage of life where you tie youridentity to whatever band you're
(27:01):
in love with.
And, um, music was so integral,like to who I was around that
time, you know, like yourfavorite band would be like who
you were that week.
Like I was, I've really beengood Charlotte, for when I was
that age and that was how I
Tina Strachan (27:16):
Who wasn't.
Sophie Beer (27:17):
I was like, yeah, right.
Tina Strachan (27:18):
Oh, really?
Sophie Beer (27:19):
Yeah.
I was, I was like, it wasSophie, the good Charlotte fan.
It was, yeah.
That was me.
So, um.
Yeah, I thought like it wouldjust, it was kind of like a, um,
a ripe idea for a novel, Iguess, to, um, have someone
around that age who was investedtheir identity so much in music
to have to go through like thislife-changing experience with
(27:39):
the, with hearing loss, but thenalso having the genetic
condition on top.
Um, yeah, it's just like a lotof emotions to work through,
which is, I, I like, yeah, I, Idefinitely try to imbue a lot of
hope into it because, um, I, Istrongly believe.
Uh, if there's one thing thatchildren's authors can do is
give kids hope.
Like it's, um, it's ourimperative to, to handle story
(28:04):
for young people with a sense ofhope and a sense of, of, um,
hope for the future.
So, uh, like I take that veryseriously and, um, I didn't
really wanna write a sad book.
I didn't, I didn't want it to besad.
I wanted it to be like funny,but also, um, life-affirming.
Tina Strachan (28:21):
Yeah.
And I think Thunderhead comesacross as really strong.
You've, you've written reallystrong character, so, and, and
her friend, her friend group aswell is, um, yeah, pretty
incredible.
It's
Sophie Beer (28:31):
they're the best.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (28:32):
yeah.
So I wanted to, sorry, I'mactually a little bit selfish, I
have to say in that, um, evenjust creating this whole podcast
with Madeline, um, Cleary, myco-host, she, we always say
like, um.
This is basically just us doingresearch for our, for ourselves.
And it's like I have all, wehave all these questions, um,
(28:52):
that we wanna ask other authors,and we love hearing author
stories about, um, how they gotto, um, their journeys to
publications.
So why don't we just ask'em, butwe'll record it and share it
with, with everybody else.
But it's, but you know, we've, Ifeel very fortunate that I can,
you know, pin you down and, andbe like, can you, you know, I
really wanted to talk to youabout, um, writing.
(29:14):
Uh, characters with, um, medicalconditions, you know, diverse
characters, um, characters withdisabilities because there's,
um, because I need to know moremyself.
I, I, it's something that I wantto know more about and I'm sure
there's lots of other listenerswho do as well.
And, um, and I know it'simportant to you, it's something
(29:35):
that you feel very stronglyabout.
And I know there's some reallywrong ways of doing it,
Sophie Beer (29:39):
Oh yeah.
Tina Strachan (29:41):
so, you know, and, and there's some really
right ways.
But can we talk about some ofthe, the wrong ways to, what are
the absolute
Sophie Beer (29:48):
Uh, yeah.
Um, I think it was, uh, thedisability activist Stella
Young, who came up with the ideaof inspiration porn, which is
like having a disabled characterjust to be like, uh.
Your inspiration just beinspirational to all the other
non-disabled people around them.
Um, which is like, it wassomething I cognitively
(30:10):
understood, but then when Ibecame hard of hearing myself, I
really understood it.
It was, um, yeah, it was, it wasreally foundational to me
because, you know, just beingthis objective, not pity, but,
but like inspiration, likethat's, that's all.
Someone's entire life story canbe whittled down to as just
(30:31):
being inspirational for otherpeople.
So I, I, I really, really like,like three dimensional
representations of disabled kidsand disabled characters.
You know, people who aren'tcompletely, I.
Inspirational Porny.
They're not, they're not justlike these, these, these
virtuous, um, paragons of, of,you know, loveliness and oh,
(30:52):
accepting us and martyrdom and,and you, oh, there's, they can
do no wrong.
They're just, you're justsweetie and they're disabled.
They, you know, just, just to bethere inspirational for other
people.
Um,
Tina Strachan (31:01):
Yep.
Sophie Beer (31:02):
yeah, I, that's a really wrong way to, to.
To, uh, have a, a disabledcharacter of like, if you're
gonna have a disabled, disabledcharacter in you're writing,
make them a 3D human, make them,um, have flaws, negatives, like
you don't, you don't need tohandle them with like kid gloves
just because they're disabled,uh, because they're, they're in
person in their own right.
And, um, they deserve all theflaws and all the complexity
(31:26):
that comes with writing anon-disabled character.
So, I guess.
Getting rid of that otherness,like acknowledging that
disability is an otherness initself, but being proud of that
otherness and being, you know,um, being able to give that
character the whole breadth,that breadth that you would to a
(31:47):
non-disabled character.
Uh, that's, I definitely, um,have picked that up so many
times in, in books since Ibecame hard of hearing.
I, I've picked that up a lot inbooks that I've read, which, um.
If there's, if there's adisabled character that really
sings to me, it's becausethey're either like, they're
troubled or they're, they're,um, just drawn in a really
(32:08):
realistic way that I find reallybeautiful.
Um, like the book that reallygot me to thinking about, I.
Uh, writing my own book abouthearing loss was, um, you're
Welcome, universe by WhitneyGarner, which is a, an American
book.
But, uh, it's about a girl whois deaf and, um, she's a
(32:28):
graffiti artist and she's, I,I've gotta say like, not a nice
person.
She's a really difficult personand I love that.
I loved that she had so much,you know, depth to her and
darkness as well as light.
And it, um, it kind of made merevise.
My main character in Thunderheada lot because Thunderhead has a
lot of lessons to learn aboutbeing, being a nice person
Tina Strachan (32:50):
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Beer (32:51):
and making friends.
Tina Strachan (32:54):
Oh, we have to learn these skills sometimes,
right?
Sophie Beer (32:56):
exactly.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (32:58):
Oh, okay.
So, yeah.
so so the a a right way of doingit and doing it respectfully is.
They're a character'causethey're a person and they have a
disability or something else,like, but it's,
Sophie Beer (33:11):
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
It's not them.
Tina Strachan (33:13):
thing.
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (33:14):
Disability isn't to define you.
It's a facet of you and it justmakes you live in a more
creative and different way thanother people.
It doesn't mean that you are alesser person or just there for
inspiration.
It's, it's just part of you.
'cause you're a fully formedhuman, you know, regardless.
So,
Tina Strachan (33:29):
Yep.
Yep.
And so, as.
So as someone, uh, or an authorwho doesn't have a disability,
who doesn't come from a com, youknow, tra um, diverse
background, um, you know, how,what are some steps that they
could take?
(33:49):
still try and be inclusive andinclude characters with meaning
and you know, how do they dothat well?
And sort of check it if that, ifthat makes sense.
Like how can I write acharacter, say that's hard of
hearing when I'm not hard ofhearing myself?
What steps could I take to makesure that I'm doing the
(34:11):
everything right and.
Sophie Beer (34:13):
Um, yeah, I think, uh, the number one thing I would
say would be like, uh.
Incidental inclus inclusivity.
So just having a characterthat's hard of hearing, even if
then, even if they're just asecondary character, a
peripheral character, somethinglike that, include it and don't
make it a big deal.
Um, so I I, I absolutely love itwhen I'm reading a book and
(34:36):
it'll just be like, oh, thischaracter is, you know, has this
dis disability.
It doesn't define them, it'sjust, you know, it's, it's a
facet of their, theirpersonality or their, um, who
they are.
But it's, you know, it doesn'tdefine them.
Like I, I, I really love that,um, because it just makes it
more.
Wide, wildly, widely acceptable.
That, or not acceptable, and itmakes it, uh, you know, uh, more
(34:58):
common.
Seeing, seeing yourself in, inprint is just one of the most
beautiful things in the world.
And, and having more of that cannever be a bad thing.
But I think like also doing thatin a well-researched way.
Um, like if you're not confidentin your ability to write a
disabled character, and you, youcan have them as a secondary
character, but I guess.
Be mindful also of not justincluding someone just, you
know, like for brownie pointsbeing like, oh yeah, here's
(35:19):
this, here's this character.
Yeah, exactly.
Tina Strachan (35:23):
diverse
Sophie Beer (35:24):
yeah, yeah, exactly.
Just, um, do some research.
Try to, um, read up on thatdisability that your character
might have.
Um, talk to someone with thatdisability because, you know,
uh, disabled people aren't like.
Horrified.
When someone wants to talk to'emabout their disability, they'll
be probably be more than happyto, to talk about it because,
(35:44):
you know, it's, it's them andit's, it, it, um, it's a part of
their life and they would, theywould like to share their life
with people.
So, uh, yeah, that's, that'salways a, um, a thing to do is,
yeah, just, just chat to someonewith it.
Or like informing yourselfabout, um, the disability that
your character might have.
Uh.
Um, I chatted to a lot of peoplewho had the, um, genetic illness
(36:06):
that Thunderhead does in my book'cause I don't have it myself.
So I wanted to be reallyinformed about it.
So I, I read a book of personalessays of people who had the,
had the, um.
The diagnosis.
I talked to a lot of them inforums and things like that.
Um, I met one, one guy who, Idunno if I need to, like, should
(36:27):
say his name.
And so, because I actually usedit in the book and then my
editor was like, maybe youshould take it out because he
might not want that.
Like, want everyone knowing
Tina Strachan (36:37):
Or maybe he would.
Sophie Beer (36:38):
he would.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Um.
And, uh, yeah, and well thenthere was also my, my own, um,
experience having a geneticillness as well, but like, you
know, not the same one, butyeah, uh, similar.
And, uh, so just drawing on allthat mishmash of, of research
and my own experience, and thatwas how I, um, how I wrote the
(36:59):
character of Thunderhead.
Uh, but yeah, I think just beinginformed and, and being willing
to chat to disabled people andhear their points of view and,
and, um.
I guess leaving, leaving spacefor disabled to be able to write
their own points of view too.
Uh,'cause you know, there, uh,there is a lot of talk about
whether non-disabled writersshould write disabled characters
(37:22):
in like a main point of view.
'cause is that like disabled?
Uh, writers is that their, theirpurview and that should be their
right to express their ownstories.
'cause, um, like the book, uh,wonder by RJ Palacio, which
Thunderhead has been compared toa lot, which I didn't actually
think of until it was published.
Yeah, yeah.
So, um, I know, yeah, it's verynice.
(37:43):
It's a nice book.
Uh, so the, the author RJPalacio doesn't have troche
colon syndrome, which is whatthe main character in, um,
wonder has.
But then, I mean, that ended up.
Being like such a beautiful bookand inspiring so many people
and, you know, creating a whole,uh, movement of, of kindness
and, and acceptance andinclusivity.
(38:04):
So, yeah, I, I guess it's justtreating your subject as a full
person and, and just beingmindful and sensitive, because I
think that's exactly what RJPalacio did with Wonder and why
it became such a bestseller wasthat.
You know, orgi, the maincharacter is a fully rounded
person with his own dreams anddesires and and insecurities,
(38:25):
and it's just really beautifulto see.
Tina Strachan (38:28):
And you can, um, I like how you said forums'cause
I have come across.
Forums.
Yeah.
Before with that sort of thing.
So that's for anyone that'slistening, um, you can, and
you're interested and you'relooking up, you know, for trying
to find some information onparticular, you know,
disabilities or even diversity,people with different kinds of
backgrounds.
There are quite a lot of forumsout there that you can jump on
(38:50):
and lots of people who arewanting to help and make sure
that you're, you know, you'regetting the right information.
Um, and you can also hiresensitivity readers.
Sophie Beer (39:00):
Sensitivity readers.
Yes.
I was gonna say that.
I forgot.
Yeah, thank you.
Sensitivity readers as well.
That's a, a really good one.
Um, uh, which is, you know, soyou pay someone a, an amount of
money to read the book and givefeedback to how you handle a
particular, um.
Minority or a particulardisability or something like
(39:21):
that in the book.
And it, it's just a really goodway to kind of screen it
pre-submission or pre uh,publication to make sure that
you, uh, not like you've handledeverything sensitively and, and
in, in a, in a way that's notgonna completely offend people.
Be, be really horrible.
Um.
I actually had my, my editor forThunderhead, uh, the amazing
(39:44):
Nicola ly, she, uh, they, um,actually pulled me up a few
times in the book and were like,you probably shouldn't use this
word here.
Uh, which is, it's not, youknow, it has like different
connotations and, and stuff likethat, which I hadn't considered,
but they, they sort of, kind of,um.
Pulled me up on that, which wasreally nice.
Uh, and there was a particularinstance towards the end of the
(40:08):
book in which, um, Thunderheadgets called a freak.
And I didn't actually know it,but that's a derogatory term for
someone with a disability is,well, I mean, everyone, everyone
knows that, knows that, but.
You know, um, being able to readthat sensitively from a
different point of view, likeyou, I, as even as a hard
(40:29):
appearing person, I would neverwould've considered being really
offended by that.
But Nicola was like, no, we, wecan't let this name, let, let
Thunderhead be called this name.
And then nobody kind of react toit or nobody say, Hey, that's
not on.
Um, which I thought was a reallybrilliant and astute thing to
say.
Nicola was amazing.
Tina Strachan (40:49):
Publishers do know, don't they?
And they, because I thinkthey're very heightened to it,
aren't they?
I've had things as well pickedup and just.
Yeah, when I, when they'vepointed it out to me, I'm like,
oh my gosh, that was actuallynot anywhere near what I was
thinking or meaning to do.
Thank goodness that you pickedthat up.
And they, they're just, I thinkthey're very heightened to it,
aren't they?
(41:09):
With, um, they're just, youknow, making sure that, you
know, everything's inclusive andI'm sure they've, you know.
Learn from mistakes in the pastor Other people's mistakes.
because when people, whensomeone gets it wrong, everyone
knows about it.
It's quite big, isn't it?
So they just
Sophie Beer (41:26):
Which is exactly what, um, sensitivity readers
do.
Um, yeah.
So, yeah, so it's a really niceway if, if you are writing a
difficult character, um, who hasa point of view that you, um,
haven't lived yourself, you, youdon't have experiential.
Um, like, you know, experiencewith, you can just, yeah.
Hire someone with experience inthat background and get their,
get their say on yourmanuscript, which is yeah.
(41:46):
Really, really, really amazing.
Tina Strachan (41:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we were, you know, butone person writing this book,
unless you're co-authoring, Isuppose, but you know, the real
world includes all these.
It is so diverse.
You know, there's so manydifferent nationalities and
cultures and abilities that, uh,that make up our world.
So you have to write them.
I, I like,'cause I, and I'm, andI'm sort of saying I'm, I'm a
(42:10):
bit not, I'm just cautious ofwhen I do that because I need to
include, um, all thosecharacters in my book.
But I'm, but then I'm alsoequally as cautious of writing
the wrong thing.
I don't want to do the wrongthing, but they must be
included.
And I, is it.
Yeah, I guess it's just treadinglightly.
I, I had, um, sensitivityreaders even for, um, the Wilder
(42:31):
Zoo series because two of themain characters are, um, you
know, one has an Indianbackground and, and um, one has
a Japanese background and, youknow, I sort of asked friends,
um, and people who had thatbackground and also had a
sensitivity reader as well.
'cause I was so, like, I justwanted to.
Just check off on a fewdifferent, and, and all of it
(42:53):
was so fine.
Like it's very, you know, it wasvery lightly, you know, added,
but it, um, yeah, it was, it's,it's just I think nice and a
little bit of peace of mind.
And they also gave me somereally good suggestions too, to
make it a bit more authentic,which I didn't really think
about and also pointed out acouple of things that, um,
weren't particularly offensivebut just, you know, oh no, we
probably would do it this way orsay it this way.
(43:13):
And,
Sophie Beer (43:13):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (43:14):
that was nice 'cause you wanna make sure
you're doing the right thing,but.
Um,
Sophie Beer (43:18):
Yeah, that's what's great about sensitivity.
Yeah.
It's um.
Sort of like hacking intosomeone's brain and just
Tina Strachan (43:24):
Yes.
Sophie Beer (43:25):
taking their experience and, and, and the
knowledge and yeah, it's reallybeautiful.
Tina Strachan (43:28):
Yep.
And you can get them foreverything, can't you?
Just about, um, there's somecompanies that you can go
through that just Yeah.
Every nationality, everyculture, every background,
every, um, yeah.
Uh, even, you know, people thatare experiencing have
experienced trauma in the past.
You can, you can.
Higher sensitivity readers toeven discuss anything along
(43:50):
those lines as well.
So yeah, even just askquestions.
They don't even have to read thebook.
You can just ask them questionseven so, so
Sophie Beer (43:57):
Yeah, I think, um, also like people might be afraid
of writing the wrong thing orsaying the wrong thing in a
book.
Um, but in my mind, as someone.
Who, like, I, I don'tparticularly like, oh, I do.
I mean, oh, such a, such a weirdsubject to talk about because
like, I am hard of hearing, butI don't identify as disabled.
(44:21):
Um, but it, in certaincircumstances I could be, I have
that identity.
Um, so, you know, it's, it's um,it, it's something that is
really close to my heart though.
Um, but also I would much rathersomeone try and fail.
Or try and get feedback, thensomeone exclude a disabled
(44:42):
character.
Um, I think the more disabledcharacters are put into books
and the more it's normalized andthe more it's accepted and the
more that disabled people areseen as, as, you know, 3D
humans, it's, well, that's whatwe are, that's the better it is,
and the more richer the worldwill be for it.
Tina Strachan (45:01):
That's perfect.
That's a perfect ending to ourinterview actually, Sophie.
I think that's a great, that's agreat point to end on.
Um, thank you for sharing allthat information.
Sophie Beer (45:11):
No worries.
Tina Strachan (45:12):
It's a really important con conversation to
have.
But before we go, do you haveone top tip for, um, our
listeners?
You know, we have lots ofaspiring, um, writers that are
listening, but also, um, youknow, lots of established
writers as well.
'cause.
You know, um, all our storiesthat we share on here and all
the people we interview justhave just wealth of knowledge
that have, is wealth a word?
Wealth of knowledge?
Sophie Beer (45:35):
We'll say it is now
Tina Strachan (45:36):
Did I just make, did I just make something up?
Um, they're a wealth ofknowledge and, um, have so much
important information to share,but so do you have, you know, a
golden tip for everybody to, whoare trying to be published and
are, or are trying to, um, youknow, about in including diverse
characters in their books?
Sophie Beer (45:54):
I guess, um, yeah, in including inclusion and, and,
um, I.
Trying, even if you don't thinkit's gonna be perfect is, is my
biggest tip.
Um, because if you don't try,then you know that that
character won't, won't be therefor people to fall in love with
and, and to see themselves inand to be appreciated.
(46:16):
So yeah, it's always worthtrying trying.
Tina Strachan (46:19):
I love that.
Thank you, Sophie.
Thanks so much for coming on thebook Deal podcast.
It was so lovely to talk to you.
Thank you for listening to thebook Deal podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
you can receive updates as soonas our new apps drop and to keep
up to date with what the pod isdoing.
You can also find us onInstagram.
This is the Book Deal podcast
Madeleine Cleary (00:10):
where you will discover the inspiring stories,
the authors behind yourfavourite books.
No matter what stage of writingyou are at, we've got you
covered.
I'm Tina Strachan.
And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
And join us as we pull back thecurtain of published authors one
Tina Strachan (00:26):
deal
Madeleine Cleary (00:26):
at a time.
The Book Deal Podcastacknowledges the traditional
owners of the land and waters,which it's recorded on.
And pays respect to their elderspast, present, and emerging.
Speaker (00:43):
Hi, it's Tina here and I'm very excited for this week's
episode where I had theopportunity to speak with a
lovely Sophie Beer.
Sophie is prolifically publishedin the children's literature
space with both her unique andquirky art and thoughtful,
important storytelling.
I really wanted to chat withSophie to discuss the importance
of inclusivity in writing asthis is something she's very
(01:04):
passionate about anddemonstrates in much of her
work.
We discussed her most recentbook, a middle grade called
Thunderhead, about an awkwardmusic obsessed tween who feels
they're a magnet for bad luck,especially when they're
diagnosed with a geneticdisorder that results in hearing
loss.
Because Thunderhead is a majormusic fan, just like Sophie is
(01:25):
in real life.
We also discuss the impact musiccan have on your life and on
your writing.
And the really cool thing aboutour chat as we discussed her
Thunderhead book, we both hadactual real thunder in the
background as our stormdescended on both of our cities.
It was pretty cool.
I was going to edit it out untilI realized the significance.
(01:46):
I hope you enjoy my chat withSophie and can take away some
tips and advice on how to writeinclusively in the right way.
Tina Strachan (01:53):
Sophie Beer.
Welcome to the book Dealpodcast.
Sophie Beer (01:56):
Oh, thank you.
So delighted to.
Tina Strachan (01:59):
Oh, it's, it's, I am very excited to have you here
and I've, um, always admiredyour work and I have so many
questions to ask you about, um,your journey.
'cause it's been, it's beenquite a big and eventful journey
for you hasn't it, to get tothis point now.
Sophie Beer (02:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it's, um, definitely, yeah,definitely been a few years in
the making.
So yeah, I'm excited to chat itall through because I think this
is the first time I've probablylaid everything out and like
actually examined it.
So it'll be interesting.
Tina Strachan (02:26):
oh, good goodie.
Yes.
And your, your back catalog isincredible.
I, you've written andillustrated everything from
board books to nonfiction to.
You know, picture books to, andnow all the way up to middle
grade with Thunderhead.
Um, and, and they've beentranslated into many different
(02:47):
languages.
I actually couldn't, yeah,there's so many that when I went
to sort of have a little lookand try and work it out, I
actually couldn't get to thebottom of it.
How many you had?
I was looking on Amazon books atone point and there was 10 pages
of Sophie Beer and I was like, Ijust, I don't know where it
starts and.
stops and.
So how, how many have you hadpublished now of individual
(03:10):
books?
Sophie Beer (03:11):
I can't, uh, I should really go through and
count them all one day.
Um, it's upwards of 30.
I know, I know that because I, Idid count them a few years ago.
Um, but yeah, it's, uh, that'scombining like my, my author
illustrated plus my, like, thestuff I've just illustrated.
Um, and even just like smallerstuff that I, maybe I just had a
part in an anthology and stufflike that, so, um, yeah.
(03:32):
Yeah, I've, um, definitely, Ihad my hand in it for a while,
so.
Tina Strachan (03:36):
Yeah.
No, it's awesome.
What year was your first bookpublished?
Because that, this is alsosomething that I tried to find
and I couldn't
Sophie Beer (03:42):
Yeah, so my first ever book, uh, was, um, Wren,
which was published by, uh,scribble Scribble.
It's the amazing scribble booksfrom London, uh, London, sorry,
Melbourne.
Um, and uh, written by KatrinaLayman, who is absolutely
amazing.
And I also illustrated, her bookis Ian Frank.
Um, and that came out in 2018, Ithink, or 2017.
(04:07):
I can't quite remember.
Um, and I'm a bit fuzzy with thedetails on that because like I,
I'm sure we'll get into itlater.
But, uh, so when I wascontracted to do that,
illustrate that book, I got, Ifinished the roughs and I
presented the roughs and wasonto doing the final
illustrations when I gotdiagnosed with my brain tumor.
And so I had to take a year offwork and, um, recover and, and
(04:30):
everything.
So that kind of blew everythingback.
So it was, I, it was meant tocome out in 20.
15 or 16, but it ended up comingout in 2017 or 18.
Um, yeah, so that, that, that islike, that was actually my first
book.
But then I think my first everpublished book was Love Makes a
Family, um, which is a boardbook.
Uh, uh, it was published withHardie Grant.
(04:53):
Um, and that was 2017 or 18 aswell.
I think it, it pipped Wren byjust a few months.
Tina Strachan (05:01):
Okay.
Yes.
'cause I, I was sort of thinking2017, 2018, that's not really
that long ago though, is.
Sophie Beer (05:07):
Yeah.
Like I think that, but then I'mlike, oh, that's almost 10
years.
Tina Strachan (05:12):
It's like when people say that the nineties are
like, how long
Sophie Beer (05:15):
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (05:16):
we're like, oh, hang on.
No, that was just, Yeah, it wasnot that long ago.
Uh, yeah, but still
Sophie Beer (05:21):
I, you know,
Tina Strachan (05:22):
30 published books though in that time is
Sophie Beer (05:24):
I know it's, yeah.
I'm a bit of a workaholic.
It's, yeah, a bit bad, likeit's.
Tina Strachan (05:30):
But it is one of those industries that, um, you
do have to.
Role that when it comes in, youjust have to take what you can
get and and grasp at everything.
Do you think
Sophie Beer (05:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's very zeitgeisty, which is,yeah, it's probably a reason
that I probably work a bit morethan I should.
Um, but I think having kids haskind of slowed that down a bit.
Like I've been able to be a bitmore choosy with my work'cause
I'm only working part-time atthe moment.
And, um, kind of, you know, likeworking as an illustrator.
You have that like starvingartist mentality, you're like,
(06:02):
oh, I, I'm not really passionateabout this project, but I'll
take it on either anyway becauseit's gonna pay the bills.
Um, whereas I feel like nowadaysI can kind of be a bit more
choosy and be like, well, I'monly, I only work three days a
week.
Um, I only have a limited amountof books I can schedule per
year, so I'm gonna have to be abit more choosy about projects
and things like that.
So, um, I mean, that's nice tobe a bit.
A bit chewier, but yeah, I guessit means you end up having less
(06:23):
money, so either being stressedor
Tina Strachan (06:27):
Yeah.
But it is, yeah, I agree.
When you have children, youjust, you time and the value of
time just becomes.
So very clear, doesn't it?
Like you have, you know, you'reworking around nap time and
you're working around, you know,school drop off and pick up and
you can literally just say,okay, this is actually how many
(06:48):
hours I have in a week toproduce something.
And times that over the year,this is only, I can only do X
amount of books or produce Xamount of
Sophie Beer (06:57):
Yeah, yeah,
Tina Strachan (06:59):
just is no more time to give.
It cannot come from anywhereelse.
Sophie Beer (07:02):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's so funny, like, I always
say that to myself and I'm like,I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut down on
the number of things I do, andthen someone will come to me
with a great project and I'll belike, oh, I guess I'm gonna have
to squeeze it in.
And yeah, it's gotta the pointwhere my agent has been like,
Sophie, stop.
Tina Strachan (07:16):
Oh,
Sophie Beer (07:17):
You need to, you need to, you need to stop.
Tina Strachan (07:21):
you just can't stop being so
Sophie Beer (07:22):
calm, calm.
Tina Strachan (07:24):
Oh, I know.
Sophie Beer (07:25):
Which, yeah, it's, it's, I mean, I wouldn't trade
it off for anything in theworld.
Like I, I love my, I love myboys so much, but, um, yeah, it
does, it does, particularly withwomen, it comes at the expense
of, um, you know, being asproductive with work.
I, like, I, I recently startedup at a studio, which has been
really cool, um, in an effort tokind of separate my work and
life balance a bit more.
So I, like, instead of workingat home, because I've, I've been
(07:48):
a freelance illustrator for.
Actually 10 years.
Yeah, it would've been 2015.
I started, um, the end of 2015.
Um, and I've just worked at homefor 10 years and it got to the
point where my youngest, my1-year-old went to daycare, uh,
like.
We've only been there two monthsand I was like, I can't stay at
home by myself.
I'm, I'm gonna go crazy.
(08:09):
I need to, I need to have moreof like a work-life balance, um,
like a separation.
I can't just keep working in, inmy office at home anymore.
So yeah, feel I'm working at astudio with a whole of other
illustrators and, and, um,artists and things like that.
It's, yeah, it's been reallylovely.
But, um, yeah, it, it isdefinitely is very hard'cause
that it puts more time pressure,like you're like, uh.
(08:30):
I do the daycare drop off, thenI have to travel all the way to
the studio, and then I have totravel from the studio to day
daycare drop off, and itcompresses everything a lot.
But, uh, I feel like I'm morefocused that way.
Like, I'm
Tina Strachan (08:40):
say, are you more productive because you're not
just going like, oh, and I'lljust go pop a load of washing on
and hang that out and then kindof get stuck and, yeah, and, and
maybe working with other peopleas well.
Do you find that social and just
Sophie Beer (08:53):
yeah.
Oh.
Yeah, definitely.
My, um, my husband is a medicalprofessional.
He's a, a brain researcher andhe talks a lot about how um, a
risk for dementia with olderpeople is lack of socialization.
Tina Strachan (09:06):
Oh,
Sophie Beer (09:07):
I know I always used to think of that, like when
I was in my studio, well, in mystudio at home, working by
myself, and I'm like, I haven'ttalked to anyone in like two
days, apart from my husband's.
Tina Strachan (09:18):
he
Sophie Beer (09:19):
around other people.
Yeah, just it's nice.
It's nice.
Um, yeah.
But yeah, it does, it doescompress your time a lot.
But yeah, I, I have been a lotmore choosy with my projects
since having kids and, um, yeah,that's been really lovely
because it means I, I'm workingon things I'm really passionate
about and, and, um, working onbooks that I really believe in,
which has been really lovely.
Tina Strachan (09:37):
Yeah.
It must be hard to say nothough, still.
Like how
Sophie Beer (09:41):
hard.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (09:43):
I mean, it's a problem we all want, right?
Sophie Beer (09:46):
I think like for me it also like going back to that
starving artist mentality.
Like I, whenever I turn down ajob, I always think, well maybe,
you know, I won't get anotherjob for, you know, a few months.
So did I just turn down and anopportunity to pay this huge
bill that might come hap thatmight happen.
Um, which is probably, you know,my, my anxious brain just being
(10:07):
silly'cause like.
My husband works in medicine.
He has an extremely stable job.
Tina Strachan (10:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (10:15):
The government is not gonna pay him for, you know,
his research, but you know.
Tina Strachan (10:19):
Yes.
Uh, I don't think you
Sophie Beer (10:20):
Yeah.
Like
Tina Strachan (10:20):
about about jobs coming in.
I think, I mean, for yourself,like, you know, if you're
turning them down and with such,uh, your back catalog and your
portfolio, I'm,
Sophie Beer (10:29):
Oh, that's nice.
Actually, just turned out areally big job, and I felt so
bad about it.
I was, I was just like, I, Ijust looked at my schedule.
I was like, I can't, I can't, Ilegitimately can't do this.
I'll just be too stressed.
And I would rather give thebooks that I'm working on at the
moment, the attention theydeserve instead of trying to be
everywhere at once.
So,
Tina Strachan (10:47):
yeah.
And probably the person, um,who's offered it to you that you
have turned down would preferyou to be open and honest in the
first instance.
Then try and push through andstress yourself and, you know,
maybe not deliver or.
You know, have to sort of pushthose delivery kind of deadlines
and stuff like that to get itdone.
They, you
Sophie Beer (11:05):
Oh,
Tina Strachan (11:05):
probably appreciate the honesty.
Sophie Beer (11:08):
yeah, I, I did the opposite of that when I was
about to go on mat leave.
'cause I got the offer toillustrate the Taylor Swift book
with,
Tina Strachan (11:14):
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Beer (11:16):
Penguin New York, and I was talking to my agent, I
was like, oh, legitimately can'tturn this down.
I love Taylor Swift.
This is amazing.
Tina Strachan (11:23):
Yes.
Sophie Beer (11:24):
when am I ever gonna be offered this look
again?
So I,
Tina Strachan (11:27):
I, was gonna ask you about them.
So that's the, um, little plittle People Big Dreams books.
Was that
Sophie Beer (11:33):
I did Elton John for them.
Yeah.
Little people, big dreams.
Uh, but this one is, uh, it'scalled Tiny Idols.
It's like a
Tina Strachan (11:39):
oh, yes,
Sophie Beer (11:41):
artists.
Yeah.
It's very cute.
Tina Strachan (11:43):
yes.
But I mean, even Elton John forthe Little People Big Dreams.
Um, but it wasn't just, justTaylor Swift though, was it that
you did.
Sophie Beer (11:51):
No, no.
So I did, yeah, I did Elton Johnfor little people big dreams,
which was like a dream cometrue.
'cause I'm such a big Elton Johnfan.
Like I, um, I legitimately like,this sounds fake, but this
actually happened.
I got the email asking me toillustrate that book when I was
on the way to an Elton Johnconcert.
Yeah.
It was like spookysynchronicity.
Yeah, it was,
Tina Strachan (12:09):
Spooky.
Would you, did you just read itthinking this is some kind of,
am I act?
Am I actually dreaming like is.
Sophie Beer (12:14):
I, I, I screamed so loud in the car that people
thought that like, there waslike a semitrailer oncoming into
traffic towards us.
Like it was, I was with mymother-in-law who was like the
loveliest best in the world, butshe's a bit like DIY and a bit
like, whoa.
Tina Strachan (12:27):
Oh, what's
Sophie Beer (12:29):
She was like,
Tina Strachan (12:31):
stressing her out?
Sophie Beer (12:32):
yes.
Tina Strachan (12:33):
no.
Sophie Beer (12:34):
And then there was my, um, my sister-in-law who was
like nine months pregnant atthat time, and she was like, ing
a belly.
I was like, it's all righteveryone.
We're not in imminent danger ofa traffic accident.
I just got a really cool joboffer.
That's all.
Tina Strachan (12:46):
Which deserves screaming though, I really
didn't.
Oh,
Sophie Beer (12:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Tina Strachan (12:50):
that's incredible
Sophie Beer (12:51):
very fun.
With the Taylor and the TaylorSwift, the little, not, sorry,
not little people.
Big dreams in Tiny Idols, whichis the line with, um, penguin
Random House.
They have, there's Taylor Swift,Beyonce.
Um, Harry Styles and I've justfinished bts, Billy Eilish and
I'm working on Ariana Grande.
So yeah,
Tina Strachan (13:11):
BTS.
That's so cool.
Sophie Beer (13:13):
there are seven of them.
Tina Strachan (13:15):
I only, oh
Sophie Beer (13:15):
me seven times longer till
Tina Strachan (13:19):
I only found out about BTS'cause I have an
11-year-old, or it was, youknow, so, um, oh, it was just,
it's just, there was just onesong I think that they used to
play on repeat a couple of yearsago.
I'll have to tell him.
I'll have to tell him about it.
Um, that's pretty cool becausemusic is a big part of your
life, isn't it?
Sophie Beer (13:39):
Yes.
A huge part.
Yes.
So I used to be a music reviewerback long ago, um, in my late
teens, early twenties.
And I was just like the biggestmusic obsessive, um, didn't play
any instruments myself, didn'tsing, couldn't, you know, for
Jack, but, uh, just wouldobsessed with it.
It's like when I think back onthat time in my life, I think of
(13:59):
music and I actually met my nowhusband.
Uh, said, brain expert on, on,uh, a music forum hilariously.
Um, yeah, and then we met at amusic gig.
So I, my, my two sons wouldn'texist if it weren't for my
obsession with music, which iskind of baffling to think about,
Tina Strachan (14:21):
Do you, can I ask you, do you listen to music when
you write or, or, or draw whenyou're
Sophie Beer (14:27):
uh, when I, uh, it depends what I'm doing.
Um.
I find it distracts me a bit toomuch if it's got like lyrics and
stuff like that.
Uh, I kind of just need silencewhen I'm writing because, uh,
yeah, I, I, I get toodistracted.
But if I'm illustrating, like,it depends on the level of
complication, like complexity.
Usually I just, uh, I, I'mlistening to an audiobook or a
(14:48):
podcast.
Um, if it's something I can justlike, kind of, you know, uh.
Spin my brain out and then justlike,
Tina Strachan (14:56):
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (14:56):
just like coloring or something like that.
But if it's something like ifI'm drawing drafting
illustrations or I'millustrating a picture book and
I need to, to be doing likethumbnailing or sketching or
something like that, theninvolves sort of brain power.
I'll, um, I'll be listening toan album Yeah.
But not as much as I used to,which is a bit sad.
Um, which I'm sure Yeah.
We'll, we'll get into because.
Tina Strachan (15:16):
Yeah.
Oh,
Sophie Beer (15:18):
lay all these breadcrumbs down for your
listeners.
Tina Strachan (15:20):
know, I know.
oh, this is,
Sophie Beer (15:22):
What's gonna happen?
Tina Strachan (15:24):
I like it.
Love it.
Stay tuned for more.
Oh, that's pretty exciting.
I listen.
I actually sometimes do andsometimes don't.
Like you said with.
Music and I, um, have beenworking on this one project
recently, and I've never donethis before.
I'm gonna sound crazy.
People are gonna be like, oh,she just has the weirdest
writing style.
I've ne I have never done thisbefore, but it's sort of this,
(15:46):
this book sort of, um, takesplace.
There's a couple of chaptersprobably the last half where
they, um, kind of in, I don't, Ijust, did you hear that thunder?
Yeah, I did actually.
Sophie Beer (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do.
Tina Strachan (16:00):
Yeah, it just, just came rolling
Sophie Beer (16:01):
here too.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (16:03):
I was like, what is that?
Sophie Beer (16:04):
It'll hit me.
It'll hit me in like a few, fewminutes.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (16:07):
we've got the same storm cell coming through.
Um, yeah, so I'm, I am writingthis book at the moment.
It's in sort of two different.
Like another world kind of atthe end.
It's not fantasy, but it's justlike they're, they're in a game
kind of at the end.
And, um, I did this weird thingwhere I felt like whenever they
were in that world, I had to bein a particular zone and a
(16:28):
particular mind frame for it.
So.
I even, but because I keptwanting to progress it, I would
just, I actually wrote the otherchapters around it because I
knew what was gonna happen.
Oh.
that sounds really weird.
I knew what was gonna happen inthose other world scenes.
I knew how it was gonna feel atthe end of it.
I knew what was gonna happen inthem.
I just had to write them so Icould write the other I.
In between chapters.
(16:48):
So when I had to, when I waswriting that in another World
chapters, I had to stream aparticular kind of music and be
in a particular kind of areawhere I could a hundred percent
focus.
But it was like, if I turned iton, it was like a switch and it
just, I could have written itwithout the music, like I
probably could have pushedthrough, but it certainly made a
huge difference.
As soon as I turned it on, itjust like kind of got me in that
(17:09):
space and it's, I couldn't havewritten it without it.
It's so music's really powerfullike that, isn't it?
Sophie Beer (17:14):
Mm-hmm.
Like, I've done so many writingcourses where, um, the, the
mentor will say something like,if you're stuck on a particular
scene.
Put on an a song that matches orgives you that same emotion that
you're trying to elicit in thereader, which I've never
actually tried to do that.
Um, yeah, like I said, I prefersilence when I'm writing.
But, um, yeah, that doesn'tsurprise me.
'cause music kind of tips intothat, like.
(17:35):
Limbic system in your brainwhere it's like, it's like
almost lizard brain, like, youknow, um, it's, it, it's on
another plane of reality.
It's not really connected tosurface emotions, it's something
deeper.
Uh, so yeah, it's, it's, it'sfunny how your, your mind is
kind of associated that with,with that particular scene you
are writing and you're like, I,yeah.
This is the, the part of mybrain that needs to be writing
(17:56):
in charge when I'm writing thisbit.
It's, yeah, it's
Tina Strachan (17:58):
yeah.
yeah.
If it ever sees the light ofday, hopefully it does this book
that I'm working on at themoment, um, you'll, I think, I
think you'll see why if you readit, you'll be like, um, I can
see that.
But um, yeah.
I have playlists as well.
Yeah.
Thunder.
Um, it was really loud.
I have playlists as well that Icreate Oh, for books, even if I
haven't quite written them yet.
(18:18):
And I've done that for oh, looksnice.
I like the em.
Yeah.
And sometimes I'll listen tothem when I'm driving.
Um, I've had to do lots ofBrisbane trips lately.
It's two two hours each way atthe moment, and it's horrifying.
But anyway, it does give me agood chance to listen to that
music.
And it, honestly, it just playsout scenes in my head, so and so
clearly, and then all I have to,all I have to do is write it
(18:41):
down.
Simple.
It's simple as that.
Sophie Beer (18:44):
I think it's'cause it's kind of like music can be
this sort of like little snippetof emotion, you know, stuffed
into a, stuffed into a word filea word, um, sorry, uh, sound
file.
And it's, it's, it kind of,accessing those emotions is so
easy when you just cross playand it's.
Automatically there.
Um, there are so many times thatI've had a song associated with,
you know, a particular feelingor, you know, like when you get
(19:05):
the goosebumps on your arms andyou listen to the song and you
can always access that feelingjust by pressing play.
It's just like you always getthe goosebumps or you always
feel that particular emotion andit's, yeah, it's so cool.
But I love that idea of likeforming worlds around playlists.
That's really cool.
I
Tina Strachan (19:18):
I've heard, yeah, I've heard that some people
have, like, some authors havelike Spotify lists that they
tell their, you know, readersabout if they want to sort of
delve into it a little bit more.
Sophie Beer (19:29):
Yeah, it's lovely.
Oh, like, oh, like, um, uh, filmscores.
Yes.
Tina Strachan (19:34):
yeah, yeah.
It's like a soundtrack.
And I think,'cause I see movies,I see books in my, stories in my
head, like a movie as well.
It just sounds like a backinglist for it.
It's, Yeah.
it's
Sophie Beer (19:43):
so cool.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (19:44):
But, um, in your middle grade book that you've
just released, Thunderhead,
Sophie Beer (19:51):
Yay.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (19:52):
it's been out, it's been out for a couple of
months now, hasn't it?
Sophie Beer (19:55):
Yeah, since, um, uh, early, oh, late October last
year,
Tina Strachan (19:59):
Okay.
Sophie Beer (20:00):
so October, 2024.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (20:01):
So the thunderhead, uh, the character
in your book, uh, and the wholebook.
Ooh, there's your thunder.
See,
Sophie Beer (20:08):
that's my thunder.
Yeah.
Whoa, Thunderhead.
Tina Strachan (20:13):
Oh my
Sophie Beer (20:13):
all coming together.
I actually arranged this withthe
Tina Strachan (20:16):
are so good.
I was gonna cut the thunder out,but now I'm like, no, this is,
I'm keeping this thunder
Sophie Beer (20:23):
cinematic.
Tina Strachan (20:24):
This is perfect.
Sophie Beer (20:25):
It's our, It's our, soundtrack.
Tina Strachan (20:28):
And it's so funny when I saw you at the, um, the
right links, um, the book linksromancing the stars the other
week, and I was like, I didn'tbring my copy.
I wanted you to sign it for me.
And then I realized, I actuallybought a signed copy anyway when
I bought it from the,
Sophie Beer (20:42):
That's so lovely.
Oh, which workshop was that?
Tina Strachan (20:45):
uh, I always say this wrong kin.
Sophie Beer (20:50):
Yes.
I just say keno.
Okay.
Because I'm, yeah.
I'm not a Sydney, Sydney person,so, yeah.
Oh, that's so lovely.
Oh,
Tina Strachan (20:58):
Yeah.
I'm not a Sydney person either.
Hence why?
We dunno how to say it.
They say it
Sophie Beer (21:01):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (21:02):
Just like Nu
Sophie Beer (21:04):
I, I get out of the way by saying keno.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (21:06):
Nu yeah.
I like that.
Oh, and an incredible shop.
Like I, I went there two days ina row.
It was amazing.
Sophie Beer (21:12):
It's like heaven, isn't it?
It's got a cafe attached.
So it's like you get yourcoffee, just wander around, get
lost in the book maze.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, but
Tina Strachan (21:20):
Sorry, I'm just loving this thunder happening in
the background as we're talkingabout Thunderhead your middle
Sophie Beer (21:25):
so atmospheric.
Tina Strachan (21:26):
October last year, Thunderhead, um, is almost
as obsessed with music as youare.
So there's a little bit of, alot of you in this book, isn't
there?
Uh.
Sophie Beer (21:35):
Yeah.
I kind of, um.
I mean, I, I feel like I'm, I'mpretty dissimilar to the actual
character of Thunderhead, uh,which I did purposely,
purposefully, because I waslike, I don't want my mom or
someone reading this book andbeing like, Sophie just put,
like, put herself in a book.
So I, I tried to, I distinctlytried to separate myself from
the character and then my momread the book and was like, it
(21:56):
was just you, Sophie.
And I was like, dad.
Tina Strachan (21:58):
I know.
Yeah.
I don't think you can get awaywith it.
I've, I've, thought about thatbefore.
It's very hard to write acharacter that's kind of not
you.
Like I've had that question aswell, is, is your character
actually you?
And I'm like, I, well, I triednot to,
Sophie Beer (22:11):
Try not to.
Yeah, I, I mean I guess it's,um, idiosyncra is idiosyncra.
I can never say that word.
You know what I mean?
Uh, they kind of just bleedthrough, like characteristics
and traits bleed through fromyour, from yourself into your
writing.
And it's just
Tina Strachan (22:24):
Without even
Sophie Beer (22:24):
not, avoidable.
Yeah, unavoidable.
Um, but, uh, yeah, soThunderhead is absolutely
obsessed with music pop, likemore than I was, I would say,
which is saying somethingbecause.
I was very obsessed, but musicis like what they live and
breathe and, you know, that'stheir reason for living.
And, uh, then they go on ajourney because they conflict.
(22:50):
They find out that they have agenetic disease, which means
that they're gonna be goingdeaf.
So yeah, that's the, yeah, the,the crux of the book, um, yeah.
A bit sad, but it's a funnybook, I swear.
It's funny.
I hope.
Tina Strachan (23:04):
It is funny.
It is.
It's really, I know you see, youhave to have that conflict in
there, obviously for, you know,to make the book work.
But of course it's, it's how yousort of encapsulate it, sort of
everything else around it andcreate the world around it.
Right.
Sophie Beer (23:17):
Oh definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think like that, the, thehumor of the book really came
from, I.
Because I myself dealt with thesame brain tumor that
thunderhead in the character,the main character the book has.
Um, I don't have the geneticdisease that Thunderhead has.
Um, but I had a, like the sametumor that I have.
(23:38):
Um, so like, and when I wentthrough that, that was, uh, 20
I.
2017, when I went through thatexperience, I found the whole
thing funny.
Like it was horrifying andreally sad, but like there was
just this, this undercurrent oflike dark humor to it all
because it was like.
Of course, the person who isabsolutely obsessed with music
(23:59):
is going to become hard ofhearing, you know, the person
who met their husband on a musicforum is going to lose their
hearing.
Like, it was just kind of like,a bit like funny and ironic and
it was, yeah, I, I just saw thehumor in it.
And, um, I think, yeah, that'swhere that, that kind of, that
gall's humor, the black humorkind of came through that way.
Karen Wasson (24:23):
Hello, I'm Karen Wasson, member of the 2025 debut
crew and author of Inked, AMiddle grade graphic novel from
Hardie Grant's brand newimprint, Figment with brilliant
illustrations by JK Minton.
Inked is a story of Sid Kraken,a 12-year-old boy who just wants
to avoid the bullies, keep hishead down, and get through his
final year at primary school.
(24:44):
But Sid's life is turnedentirely upside down when he
discovers Otto.
A talking and opera singingoctopus in his family's fish
shop.
Otto is obnoxious, demanding,and won't leave Sid alone until
he helps him get to the oceanroughly 300 kilometers away.
Plus, Sid has bigger fish tofry.
He has to figure out how to getinto the art school of his
(25:07):
dreams or else high school.
Next year will be a nightmare.
Canid and Otto find a way towork together or will it all end
in full blown disaster.
Filled with slapstick humor andheart inked is a story about
blending in and standing out andis available now in all good
bookstores and libraries.
(25:27):
I hope you enjoy this small townbig time adventure, and a huge
thank you to the Book Dealpodcast for this wonderful
opportunity to share.
Tina Strachan (25:39):
one of the main reasons why I wanted to, um,
chat to you today as well about,you know, Thunderhead and you,
it, it was such a wonderfulstory and the way that you, um,
that Thunderhead sort of workedthrough everything and very much
for that age group.
'cause she's 12, turning 13.
Sophie Beer (25:57):
Yes.
12 20 13.
Tina Strachan (25:58):
Yeah.
So, you know, her reactions andeverything to it is exactly, you
know, what kids would, would gothrough as well.
But, um, it all works out in theend, spoiler alert, but without
giving too much away, you know,it's, it was really, you know,
it was just spoke to a lot of,you know, resilience in children
and, and acceptance as well, I
Sophie Beer (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was, um, there's definitelylike a lot of emotions that they
work through, but I think likewith, with something like a
genetic disorder, there's,there's no way I.
I mean, you can have a happyending in that you have that
like radical acceptance thatthat is going to be your life
now.
Um, and like I, I speak from aplace of experience because I
(26:39):
have a genetic condition, butit's not the same one as
Thunderhead has.
It was a different one, whichwas actually what inspired me to
sit down and write the novelbecause I had, that had this
idea of floating around my headfor a few years after I had the
tumor.
And I was like, this would'vebeen so much worse if I was like
in that like 12, 13, 14-year-oldkind of.
Stage of life where you tie youridentity to whatever band you're
(27:01):
in love with.
And, um, music was so integral,like to who I was around that
time, you know, like yourfavorite band would be like who
you were that week.
Like I was, I've really beengood Charlotte, for when I was
that age and that was how I
Tina Strachan (27:16):
Who wasn't.
Sophie Beer (27:17):
I was like, yeah, right.
Tina Strachan (27:18):
Oh, really?
Sophie Beer (27:19):
Yeah.
I was, I was like, it wasSophie, the good Charlotte fan.
It was, yeah.
That was me.
So, um.
Yeah, I thought like it wouldjust, it was kind of like a, um,
a ripe idea for a novel, Iguess, to, um, have someone
around that age who was investedtheir identity so much in music
to have to go through like thislife-changing experience with
(27:39):
the, with hearing loss, but thenalso having the genetic
condition on top.
Um, yeah, it's just like a lotof emotions to work through,
which is, I, I like, yeah, I, Idefinitely try to imbue a lot of
hope into it because, um, I, Istrongly believe.
Uh, if there's one thing thatchildren's authors can do is
give kids hope.
Like it's, um, it's ourimperative to, to handle story
(28:04):
for young people with a sense ofhope and a sense of, of, um,
hope for the future.
So, uh, like I take that veryseriously and, um, I didn't
really wanna write a sad book.
I didn't, I didn't want it to besad.
I wanted it to be like funny,but also, um, life-affirming.
Tina Strachan (28:21):
Yeah.
And I think Thunderhead comesacross as really strong.
You've, you've written reallystrong character, so, and, and
her friend, her friend group aswell is, um, yeah, pretty
incredible.
It's
Sophie Beer (28:31):
they're the best.
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (28:32):
yeah.
So I wanted to, sorry, I'mactually a little bit selfish, I
have to say in that, um, evenjust creating this whole podcast
with Madeline, um, Cleary, myco-host, she, we always say
like, um.
This is basically just us doingresearch for our, for ourselves.
And it's like I have all, wehave all these questions, um,
(28:52):
that we wanna ask other authors,and we love hearing author
stories about, um, how they gotto, um, their journeys to
publications.
So why don't we just ask'em, butwe'll record it and share it
with, with everybody else.
But it's, but you know, we've, Ifeel very fortunate that I can,
you know, pin you down and, andbe like, can you, you know, I
really wanted to talk to youabout, um, writing.
(29:14):
Uh, characters with, um, medicalconditions, you know, diverse
characters, um, characters withdisabilities because there's,
um, because I need to know moremyself.
I, I, it's something that I wantto know more about and I'm sure
there's lots of other listenerswho do as well.
And, um, and I know it'simportant to you, it's something
(29:35):
that you feel very stronglyabout.
And I know there's some reallywrong ways of doing it,
Sophie Beer (29:39):
Oh yeah.
Tina Strachan (29:41):
so, you know, and, and there's some really
right ways.
But can we talk about some ofthe, the wrong ways to, what are
the absolute
Sophie Beer (29:48):
Uh, yeah.
Um, I think it was, uh, thedisability activist Stella
Young, who came up with the ideaof inspiration porn, which is
like having a disabled characterjust to be like, uh.
Your inspiration just beinspirational to all the other
non-disabled people around them.
Um, which is like, it wassomething I cognitively
(30:10):
understood, but then when Ibecame hard of hearing myself, I
really understood it.
It was, um, yeah, it was, it wasreally foundational to me
because, you know, just beingthis objective, not pity, but,
but like inspiration, likethat's, that's all.
Someone's entire life story canbe whittled down to as just
(30:31):
being inspirational for otherpeople.
So I, I, I really, really like,like three dimensional
representations of disabled kidsand disabled characters.
You know, people who aren'tcompletely, I.
Inspirational Porny.
They're not, they're not justlike these, these, these
virtuous, um, paragons of, of,you know, loveliness and oh,
(30:52):
accepting us and martyrdom and,and you, oh, there's, they can
do no wrong.
They're just, you're justsweetie and they're disabled.
They, you know, just, just to bethere inspirational for other
people.
Um,
Tina Strachan (31:01):
Yep.
Sophie Beer (31:02):
yeah, I, that's a really wrong way to, to.
To, uh, have a, a disabledcharacter of like, if you're
gonna have a disabled, disabledcharacter in you're writing,
make them a 3D human, make them,um, have flaws, negatives, like
you don't, you don't need tohandle them with like kid gloves
just because they're disabled,uh, because they're, they're in
person in their own right.
And, um, they deserve all theflaws and all the complexity
(31:26):
that comes with writing anon-disabled character.
So, I guess.
Getting rid of that otherness,like acknowledging that
disability is an otherness initself, but being proud of that
otherness and being, you know,um, being able to give that
character the whole breadth,that breadth that you would to a
(31:47):
non-disabled character.
Uh, that's, I definitely, um,have picked that up so many
times in, in books since Ibecame hard of hearing.
I, I've picked that up a lot inbooks that I've read, which, um.
If there's, if there's adisabled character that really
sings to me, it's becausethey're either like, they're
troubled or they're, they're,um, just drawn in a really
(32:08):
realistic way that I find reallybeautiful.
Um, like the book that reallygot me to thinking about, I.
Uh, writing my own book abouthearing loss was, um, you're
Welcome, universe by WhitneyGarner, which is a, an American
book.
But, uh, it's about a girl whois deaf and, um, she's a
(32:28):
graffiti artist and she's, I,I've gotta say like, not a nice
person.
She's a really difficult personand I love that.
I loved that she had so much,you know, depth to her and
darkness as well as light.
And it, um, it kind of made merevise.
My main character in Thunderheada lot because Thunderhead has a
lot of lessons to learn aboutbeing, being a nice person
Tina Strachan (32:50):
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Beer (32:51):
and making friends.
Tina Strachan (32:54):
Oh, we have to learn these skills sometimes,
right?
Sophie Beer (32:56):
exactly.
Yeah,
Tina Strachan (32:58):
Oh, okay.
So, yeah.
so so the a a right way of doingit and doing it respectfully is.
They're a character'causethey're a person and they have a
disability or something else,like, but it's,
Sophie Beer (33:11):
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
It's not them.
Tina Strachan (33:13):
thing.
Yeah.
Sophie Beer (33:14):
Disability isn't to define you.
It's a facet of you and it justmakes you live in a more
creative and different way thanother people.
It doesn't mean that you are alesser person or just there for
inspiration.
It's, it's just part of you.
'cause you're a fully formedhuman, you know, regardless.
So,
Tina Strachan (33:29):
Yep.
Yep.
And so, as.
So as someone, uh, or an authorwho doesn't have a disability,
who doesn't come from a com, youknow, tra um, diverse
background, um, you know, how,what are some steps that they
could take?
(33:49):
still try and be inclusive andinclude characters with meaning
and you know, how do they dothat well?
And sort of check it if that, ifthat makes sense.
Like how can I write acharacter, say that's hard of
hearing when I'm not hard ofhearing myself?
What steps could I take to makesure that I'm doing the
(34:11):
everything right and.
Sophie Beer (34:13):
Um, yeah, I think, uh, the number one thing I would
say would be like, uh.
Incidental inclus inclusivity.
So just having a characterthat's hard of hearing, even if
then, even if they're just asecondary character, a
peripheral character, somethinglike that, include it and don't
make it a big deal.
Um, so I I, I absolutely love itwhen I'm reading a book and
(34:36):
it'll just be like, oh, thischaracter is, you know, has this
dis disability.
It doesn't define them, it'sjust, you know, it's, it's a
facet of their, theirpersonality or their, um, who
they are.
But it's, you know, it doesn'tdefine them.
Like I, I, I really love that,um, because it just makes it
more.
Wide, wildly, widely acceptable.
That, or not acceptable, and itmakes it, uh, you know, uh, more
(34:58):
common.
Seeing, seeing yourself in, inprint is just one of the most
beautiful things in the world.
And, and having more of that cannever be a bad thing.
But I think like also doing thatin a well-researched way.
Um, like if you're not confidentin your ability to write a
disabled character, and you, youcan have them as a secondary
character, but I guess.
Be mindful also of not justincluding someone just, you
know, like for brownie pointsbeing like, oh yeah, here's
(35:19):
this, here's this character.
Yeah, exactly.
Tina Strachan (35:23):
diverse
Sophie Beer (35:24):
yeah, yeah, exactly.
Just, um, do some research.
Try to, um, read up on thatdisability that your character
might have.
Um, talk to someone with thatdisability because, you know,
uh, disabled people aren't like.
Horrified.
When someone wants to talk to'emabout their disability, they'll
be probably be more than happyto, to talk about it because,
(35:44):
you know, it's, it's them andit's, it, it, um, it's a part of
their life and they would, theywould like to share their life
with people.
So, uh, yeah, that's, that'salways a, um, a thing to do is,
yeah, just, just chat to someonewith it.
Or like informing yourselfabout, um, the disability that
your character might have.
Uh.
Um, I chatted to a lot of peoplewho had the, um, genetic illness
(36:06):
that Thunderhead does in my book'cause I don't have it myself.
So I wanted to be reallyinformed about it.
So I, I read a book of personalessays of people who had the,
had the, um.
The diagnosis.
I talked to a lot of them inforums and things like that.
Um, I met one, one guy who, Idunno if I need to, like, should
(36:27):
say his name.
And so, because I actually usedit in the book and then my
editor was like, maybe youshould take it out because he
might not want that.
Like, want everyone knowing
Tina Strachan (36:37):
Or maybe he would.
Sophie Beer (36:38):
he would.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Um.
And, uh, yeah, and well thenthere was also my, my own, um,
experience having a geneticillness as well, but like, you
know, not the same one, butyeah, uh, similar.
And, uh, so just drawing on allthat mishmash of, of research
and my own experience, and thatwas how I, um, how I wrote the
(36:59):
character of Thunderhead.
Uh, but yeah, I think just beinginformed and, and being willing
to chat to disabled people andhear their points of view and,
and, um.
I guess leaving, leaving spacefor disabled to be able to write
their own points of view too.
Uh,'cause you know, there, uh,there is a lot of talk about
whether non-disabled writersshould write disabled characters
(37:22):
in like a main point of view.
'cause is that like disabled?
Uh, writers is that their, theirpurview and that should be their
right to express their ownstories.
'cause, um, like the book, uh,wonder by RJ Palacio, which
Thunderhead has been compared toa lot, which I didn't actually
think of until it was published.
Yeah, yeah.
So, um, I know, yeah, it's verynice.
(37:43):
It's a nice book.
Uh, so the, the author RJPalacio doesn't have troche
colon syndrome, which is whatthe main character in, um,
wonder has.
But then, I mean, that ended up.
Being like such a beautiful bookand inspiring so many people
and, you know, creating a whole,uh, movement of, of kindness
and, and acceptance andinclusivity.
(38:04):
So, yeah, I, I guess it's justtreating your subject as a full
person and, and just beingmindful and sensitive, because I
think that's exactly what RJPalacio did with Wonder and why
it became such a bestseller wasthat.
You know, orgi, the maincharacter is a fully rounded
person with his own dreams anddesires and and insecurities,
(38:25):
and it's just really beautifulto see.
Tina Strachan (38:28):
And you can, um, I like how you said forums'cause
I have come across.
Forums.
Yeah.
Before with that sort of thing.
So that's for anyone that'slistening, um, you can, and
you're interested and you'relooking up, you know, for trying
to find some information onparticular, you know,
disabilities or even diversity,people with different kinds of
backgrounds.
There are quite a lot of forumsout there that you can jump on
(38:50):
and lots of people who arewanting to help and make sure
that you're, you know, you'regetting the right information.
Um, and you can also hiresensitivity readers.
Sophie Beer (39:00):
Sensitivity readers.
Yes.
I was gonna say that.
I forgot.
Yeah, thank you.
Sensitivity readers as well.
That's a, a really good one.
Um, uh, which is, you know, soyou pay someone a, an amount of
money to read the book and givefeedback to how you handle a
particular, um.
Minority or a particulardisability or something like
(39:21):
that in the book.
And it, it's just a really goodway to kind of screen it
pre-submission or pre uh,publication to make sure that
you, uh, not like you've handledeverything sensitively and, and
in, in a, in a way that's notgonna completely offend people.
Be, be really horrible.
Um.
I actually had my, my editor forThunderhead, uh, the amazing
(39:44):
Nicola ly, she, uh, they, um,actually pulled me up a few
times in the book and were like,you probably shouldn't use this
word here.
Uh, which is, it's not, youknow, it has like different
connotations and, and stuff likethat, which I hadn't considered,
but they, they sort of, kind of,um.
Pulled me up on that, which wasreally nice.
Uh, and there was a particularinstance towards the end of the
(40:08):
book in which, um, Thunderheadgets called a freak.
And I didn't actually know it,but that's a derogatory term for
someone with a disability is,well, I mean, everyone, everyone
knows that, knows that, but.
You know, um, being able to readthat sensitively from a
different point of view, likeyou, I, as even as a hard
(40:29):
appearing person, I would neverwould've considered being really
offended by that.
But Nicola was like, no, we, wecan't let this name, let, let
Thunderhead be called this name.
And then nobody kind of react toit or nobody say, Hey, that's
not on.
Um, which I thought was a reallybrilliant and astute thing to
say.
Nicola was amazing.
Tina Strachan (40:49):
Publishers do know, don't they?
And they, because I thinkthey're very heightened to it,
aren't they?
I've had things as well pickedup and just.
Yeah, when I, when they'vepointed it out to me, I'm like,
oh my gosh, that was actuallynot anywhere near what I was
thinking or meaning to do.
Thank goodness that you pickedthat up.
And they, they're just, I thinkthey're very heightened to it,
aren't they?
(41:09):
With, um, they're just, youknow, making sure that, you
know, everything's inclusive andI'm sure they've, you know.
Learn from mistakes in the pastor Other people's mistakes.
because when people, whensomeone gets it wrong, everyone
knows about it.
It's quite big, isn't it?
So they just
Sophie Beer (41:26):
Which is exactly what, um, sensitivity readers
do.
Um, yeah.
So, yeah, so it's a really niceway if, if you are writing a
difficult character, um, who hasa point of view that you, um,
haven't lived yourself, you, youdon't have experiential.
Um, like, you know, experiencewith, you can just, yeah.
Hire someone with experience inthat background and get their,
get their say on yourmanuscript, which is yeah.
(41:46):
Really, really, really amazing.
Tina Strachan (41:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we were, you know, butone person writing this book,
unless you're co-authoring, Isuppose, but you know, the real
world includes all these.
It is so diverse.
You know, there's so manydifferent nationalities and
cultures and abilities that, uh,that make up our world.
So you have to write them.
I, I like,'cause I, and I'm, andI'm sort of saying I'm, I'm a
(42:10):
bit not, I'm just cautious ofwhen I do that because I need to
include, um, all thosecharacters in my book.
But I'm, but then I'm alsoequally as cautious of writing
the wrong thing.
I don't want to do the wrongthing, but they must be
included.
And I, is it.
Yeah, I guess it's just treadinglightly.
I, I had, um, sensitivityreaders even for, um, the Wilder
(42:31):
Zoo series because two of themain characters are, um, you
know, one has an Indianbackground and, and um, one has
a Japanese background and, youknow, I sort of asked friends,
um, and people who had thatbackground and also had a
sensitivity reader as well.
'cause I was so, like, I justwanted to.
Just check off on a fewdifferent, and, and all of it
(42:53):
was so fine.
Like it's very, you know, it wasvery lightly, you know, added,
but it, um, yeah, it was, it's,it's just I think nice and a
little bit of peace of mind.
And they also gave me somereally good suggestions too, to
make it a bit more authentic,which I didn't really think
about and also pointed out acouple of things that, um,
weren't particularly offensivebut just, you know, oh no, we
probably would do it this way orsay it this way.
(43:13):
And,
Sophie Beer (43:13):
Yeah.
Tina Strachan (43:14):
that was nice 'cause you wanna make sure
you're doing the right thing,but.
Um,
Sophie Beer (43:18):
Yeah, that's what's great about sensitivity.
Yeah.
It's um.
Sort of like hacking intosomeone's brain and just
Tina Strachan (43:24):
Yes.
Sophie Beer (43:25):
taking their experience and, and, and the
knowledge and yeah, it's reallybeautiful.
Tina Strachan (43:28):
Yep.
And you can get them foreverything, can't you?
Just about, um, there's somecompanies that you can go
through that just Yeah.
Every nationality, everyculture, every background,
every, um, yeah.
Uh, even, you know, people thatare experiencing have
experienced trauma in the past.
You can, you can.
Higher sensitivity readers toeven discuss anything along
(43:50):
those lines as well.
So yeah, even just askquestions.
They don't even have to read thebook.
You can just ask them questionseven so, so
Sophie Beer (43:57):
Yeah, I think, um, also like people might be afraid
of writing the wrong thing orsaying the wrong thing in a
book.
Um, but in my mind, as someone.
Who, like, I, I don'tparticularly like, oh, I do.
I mean, oh, such a, such a weirdsubject to talk about because
like, I am hard of hearing, butI don't identify as disabled.
(44:21):
Um, but it, in certaincircumstances I could be, I have
that identity.
Um, so, you know, it's, it's um,it, it's something that is
really close to my heart though.
Um, but also I would much rathersomeone try and fail.
Or try and get feedback, thensomeone exclude a disabled
(44:42):
character.
Um, I think the more disabledcharacters are put into books
and the more it's normalized andthe more it's accepted and the
more that disabled people areseen as, as, you know, 3D
humans, it's, well, that's whatwe are, that's the better it is,
and the more richer the worldwill be for it.
Tina Strachan (45:01):
That's perfect.
That's a perfect ending to ourinterview actually, Sophie.
I think that's a great, that's agreat point to end on.
Um, thank you for sharing allthat information.
Sophie Beer (45:11):
No worries.
Tina Strachan (45:12):
It's a really important con conversation to
have.
But before we go, do you haveone top tip for, um, our
listeners?
You know, we have lots ofaspiring, um, writers that are
listening, but also, um, youknow, lots of established
writers as well.
'cause.
You know, um, all our storiesthat we share on here and all
the people we interview justhave just wealth of knowledge
that have, is wealth a word?
Wealth of knowledge?
Sophie Beer (45:35):
We'll say it is now
Tina Strachan (45:36):
Did I just make, did I just make something up?
Um, they're a wealth ofknowledge and, um, have so much
important information to share,but so do you have, you know, a
golden tip for everybody to, whoare trying to be published and
are, or are trying to, um, youknow, about in including diverse
characters in their books?
Sophie Beer (45:54):
I guess, um, yeah, in including inclusion and, and,
um, I.
Trying, even if you don't thinkit's gonna be perfect is, is my
biggest tip.
Um, because if you don't try,then you know that that
character won't, won't be therefor people to fall in love with
and, and to see themselves inand to be appreciated.
(46:16):
So yeah, it's always worthtrying trying.
Tina Strachan (46:19):
I love that.
Thank you, Sophie.
Thanks so much for coming on thebook Deal podcast.
It was so lovely to talk to you.
Thank you for listening to thebook Deal podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe to the pod so
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