February 11, 2025 • 22 mins
Such a treat to reconnect with Ashley Boyson about her brand new children's book. Ashley's story is one of the most inspiring you'll ever hear!
Buy Ashley's book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0990481077
Learn more about Ashley:
https://www.themomentswestand.com/
Learn more about Jason:
http://www.jasonfwright.com
About the book:
You never expect to lose your cheerleader. You never think that one day the one who always told you that you were born for greatness, wouldn't be there to watch you become it. This is a story about a young child who lost someone really special to them, and their journey through the emotions that followed. A story of sad times and happy memories that become a wave of the grief and trauma associated with losing someone you love. And the triumph on the other side of the pain and realizing they will be with you forever.
To all the kids who have lossed someone they love. You are not alone. There are so many who have navigated this lonely journey. You will get through this. It will be hard, but you will be carried and come out stronger on the other side. Nobody can ever replace what you have lost, but there are so many people who can love you and help you through this new chapter without them.
I hope this book brings you comfort and warms your heart as you face these new emotions and find ways to work through them. You are never alone. May your angels be close and may you feel the strength and courage they will bring as they cheer you on from the other side.
This podcast is brought to you by InkVeins, your source for book publicity, promo, press releases and more. Text 540-212-4095 for more information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello there Once again, my friends, welcome to
the Book Drop, mike.
As a reminder, we are broughtto you by Ink Veins, your source
for publicity, promo and pressreleases, and this is Jason
Wright.
And, by the way, is theresomeone that you would like for
me to have on the show?
Please message us, tell me whoyou'd like to hear from.
We love suggestions and, by theway, if you are an author with
(00:26):
a new book out or coming, thatsuggestion could very well be
you.
So do not be afraid to reachout and recommend yourself as a
guest on the show.
So I met today's guest, oh boy,for the first time, at least a
decade ago, maybe more, at leasta decade ago, maybe more.
She's the author of a blog andbook series called the Moment we
(00:49):
Stand, where she talks abouther family's journey of healing
after just the most unbelievabletrial that you can imagine, and
she'll talk briefly about thatin a moment.
She has shared this story, herstory, her journey on Dateline
and Dr Phil and all kinds of theshows and platforms.
She's followed by manythousands of people around the
(01:12):
world and her name is AshleyBoyson.
Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm great.
How are?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
you so well.
Hey, when did we first meet?
I know it was in Boise, rightAt a speaking gig 2014.
Wow, we are getting old.
We are, and you've been so kind.
Every time I've come throughthe area You've popped into a
signing and I've met yourwonderful husband and your kids
(01:40):
or at least some of your kidsthrough the years, and it's
always nice when I'm in Boise Imake sure that Ashley knows I'm
around, and so it's been fun toat least intersect a few times
here and there over the years.
And I'll just say, of all thepeople I've had on the first
show and on this show and peoplethat I've posted about, I've
written about you for Fox andDeseret News and LDS Living and
(02:02):
all sorts of outlets havecarried different content that
I've created on you through theyears.
I don't know that I've metanyone or written about anybody
whose story is as complicated inthat it is inspiring, it is
heartbreaking, it is courageous,it is all the things.
You are all the things at once.
You're a pretty rare soul andI'm so happy to have you on the
show and to talk about yourbrand new book.
(02:23):
It're a pretty rare soul andI'm so happy to have you on the
show and to talk about yourbrand new book.
It's a children's book.
It's called One Day A Child'sJourney Through Grief and Loss.
Before we get to that, theremight be someone listening.
It's unlikely, right, ashley?
But there might be someonelistening who has no idea who
you are, so what do they need toknow about you?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, they need to know .
Well, first, I'm a mom of sevennow and that's really my focus
right now.
But also when my fifth childwas a baby, my husband was
(03:06):
murdered and that's kind of themoment that made all of this.
I was really like a mom whojust wanted to be a mom and a
wife and I was put in thespotlight in a very weird way
that, um, I would have neverchosen, I would have never
actually chosen any spotlights,honestly, um, but it's been.
But it's been a journey of afterhis infidelity and murder.
It's been a journey of healingthat I thought I was doing alone
until God asked me to write ablog and share and say it out
(03:30):
loud.
Like, honestly, I was contentshoving it under the rug and
never talking about it everagain and forgetting.
That was kind of my family'sgenerational coping is just,
let's shove it under the rug andmove forward, and that's what
the journey I was planning on.
And God had a different planfor this story and for me and he
knew that in it I would findhealing.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And that's beautifully said, and as someone
who has consumed so much ofyour content through the years,
it is, I think, so beautifulthat you have taken unbelievable
grief and pain and turn thatinto a blessing for so many
people through your books andblog and videos and speaking
(04:14):
gigs through the years.
I mean so many people have beendirectly blessed.
Their lives changed forever asa result of hearing your story.
What does that mean to you?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, first it makes me feel very, I guess, humbled
and overwhelmed, because I knowthe backstory and it was more
like I got to be a voice forHeavenly Father because he asked
me to.
So I know that it wasn'tanything grand that I did,
except for listen to him.
(04:46):
But it also makes me feel veryhappy that I've had so many
people say like I know you knowJesus, like the way you write,
there's no way you don't.
And as I read, I felt him in mystory and I have seen his hand
in my life, his hand in my life,and that the bottom line, if
nothing else, in this whole lifeof mine.
(05:06):
I'm so grateful that I've hadan opportunity to feel what that
feels like for people to saybecause you were brave enough to
share this unique story andopen your mouth in a way that
you never wanted to, I feelJesus in my life.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, that's pretty remarkable.
And, I should add, it's notjust people like me who have
been perhaps through some tryingtimes, but nothing even
remotely close to what you'vebeen through.
But it's not just people likeme who have found inspiration.
No-transcript.
(05:55):
You've done some events withthese folks, people whose lives
have been changed in prettydramatic ways as well, and I
think you've sort of become Idon't know how do we say this A
mom, a leader, a cheerleader, anorganizer, a CEO of this army
of people who've been throughreally, really hard things, who
also want to share their storieswith the world.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, yeah, it's been really cool to, I guess, reach
out.
Some people have reached out tome and I reached out to them,
especially when I was reallydoing a lot of conferences
before COVID and these last twobabies.
It's been so cool to, I guess.
Okay, so I would call myself.
When I was in elementary, juniorhigh, middle school, all the
(06:37):
all the high school, I was kindof a gatherer like mainly
because I hated when people werealone or looked sad and I would
, I don't know.
I could like feel what they weregoing through when, if I just
looked over at them, I'm like no, you're not gonna be sad, you
come with us and we're all goingto be friends and we're not
going to do this alone.
Even when I was the new girl, Iwas kind of just gathering
people and that's kind of howit's been with with this journey
(07:00):
.
I see people hurting in theirown space and I've been there
and I thought I was alone and Ifelt so isolated and alone I
didn't even know how to reachout for a long time.
But those opportunities havejust brought people together and
just like this giant hug and ina giant room and just for me.
It's been a gift to my soul toknow that I'm not alone, and I
(07:22):
know that that's been theexperience of people who have
come to connect.
Because, even though we're allconnected virtually that
in-person embrace and sitting ina room full of warriors, that
you can just feel the strengththere's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's really a gift of empathy, right?
It's your ability to look atsomeone and to feel what they're
feeling and then to help themfeel seen and loved and lifted
and in all the things.
Well, we could end right hereand I think people would have
enjoyed the discussion, butwe're here to talk about your
children's book, which was newsto me, I must admit.
When you texted me the otherday, I was like, oh my goodness,
(07:58):
I had no idea that you had thisnew book out.
So tell us about the book, andI know there's a special mission
behind it, so talk about that.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So, okay, I'm going to make this quick to just get
to how this book came to be.
But the movie Onward came outyears ago and my son, who was a
tiny baby when his dad waskilled, watched this movie and
connected so much to thecharacter that he ended up in
therapy for like two years.
(08:30):
And while I was taking him totherapy, I was, I was listening,
I was watching, I was watchingmy other kids all through this
journey of healing.
I was bringing people to theseconferences and hearing their
stories and and um, one day itwas just like everybody's voice
came out on paper and I juststarted writing and I wrote this
(08:51):
book in probably 10 minutes andit took many years to figure
out what I wanted to do with it.
I didn't even know for surewhat I wanted to do with it.
Um, and then my daughter whenshe was in an eating disorder
facility years ago, I needed,like I kept praying, she needs
some sort of purpose, she needssome.
And I felt this like send herthe book.
(09:13):
And I'm like I don't even knowwhere I put that book.
I've literally written it onpaper.
So I went through all my stuff,found the book and I sent, I
typed it up and sent her a copyand I said I need an illustrator
.
You're the artist who'ssupposed to do this.
(09:33):
And it took her a long timebecause she said part of her
healing was drawing thesepictures of her and her dad and
her siblings with their dad anddifferent people in our family.
So she took these experiencesthat we had photographed and
turned it into the pictures thatare now in this book.
So it really became this, Iguess, uniting of my healing of
writing and hers of drawing, andshe finally finished this
summer.
She went through some reallyhard stuff and I kept feeling it
(09:54):
again tell her to finish thedrawings and she did.
And yeah, so I asked her firstfrom the very beginning.
I knew I always get littleglimpses of the cover and
different things when I'mworking on a book and sometimes
I write them down in the middleof the night.
But this one I just knew itcouldn't have faces on in the
pictures and it couldn't havecolor, and I think that was
(10:19):
coming back way from my childdevelopment.
Major Color can can reallycreate emotion for people and
for me, when I see someone'sface and I know they're sad, it
can tell me how they're feelingand I feel that way.
So I didn't want to have a bookthat told kids when you lose
someone you love, look at thispicture and it will tell you how
(10:40):
to feel.
I wanted this to be a book thatreally opened them up to
conversations.
And the coolest thing is, aspeople are starting to get this
book, I'm getting stories.
Even my neighbor her kids losttheir grandparents and she said
they read the book and then wetalked for hours.
It was like it just opened upall of their emotions and
questions.
But that's the whole purpose ofthe book.
(11:01):
It really is.
I tried to create it so itwasn't just about a kid and
their dad.
It's about a kid and their bigbrother or their big sister or
their grandparents someonethey're connected to their whole
life that now is gone.
So they can go through thegrief process with this book and
they can think about differentthings that can happen and all
(11:23):
of it can be okay.
Those emotions don't have to beheld inside, because look at
the kid in this book.
Oh my gosh.
They felt that too In themiddle of the night, when
they're scared.
They felt it too, like all thethings that come up through the
stages of grief for kids.
I want them to know it's okay,because I didn't even know, as a
parent, that it was all okaywhen my kids were going through
it.
So what I'm hoping is it's atool for parents to go hey,
(11:47):
let's talk about this Instead ofshoving it under the rug.
We're going to put it out inthe light and see if it'll feel
better.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I love the style.
I love the sketch pencil art.
It's sparse and I love I had noidea that was true about color.
It makes sense Now that you sayit it's like, oh yeah, that
makes a lot of sense thedifference between you doing
something perhaps in black andwhite and color.
But I love that.
(12:12):
It invites us to put ourselvesinto the picture, even the faces
.
And you know, what'sinteresting is you were talking,
I was thinking about this.
I did a pretty significantnumber of schools around my book
, scar Dakota in November.
I did a load of schools in aparticular school district where
(12:33):
I was talking to.
You know a couple thousand kidsa day and and I would often ask
how many of you have lostsomeone that you love.
And these are kids all the waydown to like third grade, third
through kind of seventh grade,which is kind of the target of
this particular tour.
And so many hands go in the airwhen you say have you lost a
(12:55):
parent, have you lost a sibling,have you lost a grandmother or
grandfather or a teacher?
I had some kids that raisedtheir hand for teachers and
administrators and school busdrivers and aunts and uncles and
all the things and and they.
They get it like this.
This idea that I mean Iremember, as I've said anyone
(13:16):
that's followed me knows that Ilost my dad when I was in high
school and I remember that nightis clearly I mean, it's been 30
, whatever years I remember thenight my father died as clearly
as if it were last night.
Right, and I'm certain you feelthat way about the night that
you got that knock at the doortelling you how you know your
husband was gone and your worldwas going to change forever.
Those memories are crystal clearand I think sometimes with kids
(13:36):
, we assume, well, you know,they're young and it's foggy,
and they're going to grow up andthey're going to grow out of it
and they're not going toremember all these things.
That's not true.
I mean, kiddos are so tuned inemotionally, and not just from
what they're experiencingthemselves, but also what
they're pulling in from theirparents, right?
I mean, I'm sure that your kidswere impacted by the grief they
were seeing you go through.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Totally.
Or the avoidance that I wouldgo into and try to pretend
everything didn't happen.
And you know we model behaviorsand we also have emotions
sometimes that we don't evenrealize our kids are picking up
on.
That can really affect them.
Or the not talking about it canreally affect them, because
then they're afraid to speak up.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, it's interesting, I think, about kind
of what I was going throughwhen my father died and I think,
wow, a lot of my pain actuallyin retrospect, was watching my
mother go through the lonelinessand depression and sadness and
(14:39):
depression.
And just processing all of thatwasn't just my own sense of
loss but it was, you know,living under the same roof with
a mom who is going through inmany ways something far more
challenging than what I was.
Who listening right now needsthis book in their home?
Let me ask you the reverse whodoesn't need this?
(14:59):
Is there anyone out therelistening right now that you
think maybe not now, maybe notyet?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was a whole group of grown adults and he said
everyone was bawling because allof us have lost somebody or if
we haven't like, it's crazybecause there's so many amazing
people in our lives that we'regoing to lose someday.
So, honestly, I thought it wasfor kids, but I think it's for
all of us.
I think as I read it and putmyself in the shoes of that
(15:38):
young kid and think about losinggrandparents and different
people there's and there'sdifferent times.
Those emotions are triggered,you know, because loss is
permanent and, whether we'vekind of moved on or not, some
things are going to remind usabout loss and there's going to
be times where a bunch oftraumas happen all at once, and
(15:58):
even recently.
Like this doesn't have to dowith this book, but I'm going to
talk about it for a second.
My son was in an accident witha lawnmower and he lost at least
the tips of all of his fingerson his left hand.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Oh my heavens.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
He, he.
So he went into surgery thatnight and it was one of those
moments where I was like, areyou kidding me?
Like what is wrong with ourfamily?
Like why do we have such badluck?
And I was kind of feeling sorryfor myself and almost
embarrassed to even like say outloud that this had happened,
because we've had a lot of thesekind of incidents.
My daughter got in a fight witha blunder and shredded her
hands like also hands like whatis happening years later?
(16:35):
So it was one of those momentswhere I was just me and Heavenly
Father were having kind of a Iwas having a pity party and just
kind of maybe a lecture, Idon't know.
But I said I was going, what isgoing on?
And he kept like my answer,kept saying you need to share
this and you need to ask forprayer warriors, and I'm like no
, I'm, I can't believe ourfamily always has some big
(16:56):
traumatic thing happening.
You know we have all been therethose months.
So the next day I get a call inthe morning from my daughter,
who I'm going to make this short.
She's on a mission in Mexicoand had a really scary
experience with an Uber who theythink was trying to kidnap her
and a couple other girls andluckily her got stuck in mud and
they got out and luckily theyhad had alerted a car or another
(17:18):
group to come and follow them.
Anyways, blah, blah, blah.
This has nothing to do with thetrauma that happened or the
people that I've lost, butsomething changed in my brain
that day.
This was a very traumaticexperience for me as a mom to
have these two things.
Literally, she said.
She got into the Uber as T wasgoing into surgery and I had
just put out a post saying Ineed prayer warriors.
(17:39):
My son and people from all overthe world are saying we're
praying for your family, but Ididn't.
The prayers helped my daughterand my son and eventually me,
but it took me a while.
Like I, those two experiencestriggered some of my old grief
that came up strong in it.
I had been working through itfor months.
This happened in November, sowe don't know when certain
(18:02):
things, even if they don't feelrelated, are going to trigger
our traumas and our loss fromthe past.
And this is what this book isfor is to help us realize that
all of it's okay, no matter howit comes back up or how you're
reminded of it or who you'velost.
It's okay to experience theemotions, even if it feels like
(18:22):
it was way long ago and you needto be over it.
Sometimes you're just not, andsometimes your body's still
holding on to some of that griefthat you need to let go.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I think it's so, so true that loss is not just.
You're sitting on the first pewat a funeral for your loved one
, right I've, just as you weretalking, I was thinking about a
very dear friend of mine.
A young adult recently wentthrough a divorce.
You know, no one's gone, noone's passed away, there was no
(18:53):
funeral.
But my heavens does she, andI'm sure her former husband,
feel a significant sense of lossand grief for the marriage
right?
So it sounds like the book hasvalue, no matter what kind of
loss you're experiencing.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh yeah, I think we could get one in every home.
I think that'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Let's make that happen.
A chicken in every pot I thinksomeone said that and a book in
every home.
So what is next after this?
What else is Ashley working on,Because I know that we were
talking before we beganrecording this episode that you
get about two, three hours ofsleep a night, whether you want
it or not, because you neverstop.
(19:36):
You literally never breathe.
What are you working on next?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well, first of all, I actually do sleep a lot.
My kids are on strict sleepschedule.
Well, my little kids, it's theteenagers that actually keep me
awake.
But what I am working on I haveabout four children's books
that will go with this series.
Some of them will be a littlemore specific.
Like I talked about my son whonever got to meet his dad and
(20:01):
that movie Onward kind ofreminded him and brought that up
for him.
I have a specific book that'llbe for a child who never got to
meet their parent, who ishealing without the memories
that everybody else has.
So I have a bunch of differentchildren's books that are going
to be part of this little seriesthat my daughter's going to
help me illustrate and actuallymy son wants to illustrate that
(20:23):
one.
So I'm not even sure howthey're all going to come out,
but they're.
They're going to be great.
Yeah, I'm, I'm still working.
I speak not as often as I usedto on purpose.
I am more specific on on howmuch I will speak, but I really
enjoy speaking and getting to bein the room with people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Awesome.
Well, I don't know if weactually said Boston's name at
some point, but we should,because the illustrations are
fantastic.
So I hope she's listening.
Shout out to her for helpingyou create this.
And I do see that it's listedon Amazon as the beginning of a
series, so I can't wait to seewhat else is coming and I hope
that you'll come back.
I hope every time I have a newbook out that you'll come back
(21:05):
and talk about it, and I hopepeople listening will give the
book a shot.
And you know what, if you'relistening to the show right now
and you're like you know what?
I just I don't know.
I don't know that I need thisright now, let me invite you to
pick it up anyway and to read itand then put it on your shelf
(21:25):
so that you're ready when you doneed it, because you will need
it either for you or for afriend from church or a neighbor
or a family member or a friendfrom work.
And what a blessing it would befor you and for them if you're
able to just pull that off theshelf and write a little note
and say this is for you.
I like that idea.
(21:46):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I love it.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
In the show notes I will put links to all of the
good things that you are doing,that you have done.
We'll link back to sort of yourorigin story a little bit maybe
on your blog and your othertitles on Amazon and we will
have you back on the show.
Thank you so much for giving ussome time today.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Thank you so much, Jason.
Good to talk with you.
Thank you.
Hello there Once again, my friends, welcome to
the Book Drop, mike.
As a reminder, we are broughtto you by Ink Veins, your source
for publicity, promo and pressreleases, and this is Jason
Wright.
And, by the way, is theresomeone that you would like for
me to have on the show?
Please message us, tell me whoyou'd like to hear from.
We love suggestions and, by theway, if you are an author with
(00:26):
a new book out or coming, thatsuggestion could very well be
you.
So do not be afraid to reachout and recommend yourself as a
guest on the show.
So I met today's guest, oh boy,for the first time, at least a
decade ago, maybe more, at leasta decade ago, maybe more.
She's the author of a blog andbook series called the Moment we
(00:49):
Stand, where she talks abouther family's journey of healing
after just the most unbelievabletrial that you can imagine, and
she'll talk briefly about thatin a moment.
She has shared this story, herstory, her journey on Dateline
and Dr Phil and all kinds of theshows and platforms.
She's followed by manythousands of people around the
(01:12):
world and her name is AshleyBoyson.
Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm great.
How are?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
you so well.
Hey, when did we first meet?
I know it was in Boise, rightAt a speaking gig 2014.
Wow, we are getting old.
We are, and you've been so kind.
Every time I've come throughthe area You've popped into a
signing and I've met yourwonderful husband and your kids
(01:40):
or at least some of your kidsthrough the years, and it's
always nice when I'm in Boise Imake sure that Ashley knows I'm
around, and so it's been fun toat least intersect a few times
here and there over the years.
And I'll just say, of all thepeople I've had on the first
show and on this show and peoplethat I've posted about, I've
written about you for Fox andDeseret News and LDS Living and
(02:02):
all sorts of outlets havecarried different content that
I've created on you through theyears.
I don't know that I've metanyone or written about anybody
whose story is as complicated inthat it is inspiring, it is
heartbreaking, it is courageous,it is all the things.
You are all the things at once.
You're a pretty rare soul andI'm so happy to have you on the
show and to talk about yourbrand new book.
(02:23):
It're a pretty rare soul andI'm so happy to have you on the
show and to talk about yourbrand new book.
It's a children's book.
It's called One Day A Child'sJourney Through Grief and Loss.
Before we get to that, theremight be someone listening.
It's unlikely, right, ashley?
But there might be someonelistening who has no idea who
you are, so what do they need toknow about you?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, they need to know .
Well, first, I'm a mom of sevennow and that's really my focus
right now.
But also when my fifth childwas a baby, my husband was
(03:06):
murdered and that's kind of themoment that made all of this.
I was really like a mom whojust wanted to be a mom and a
wife and I was put in thespotlight in a very weird way
that, um, I would have neverchosen, I would have never
actually chosen any spotlights,honestly, um, but it's been.
But it's been a journey of afterhis infidelity and murder.
It's been a journey of healingthat I thought I was doing alone
until God asked me to write ablog and share and say it out
(03:30):
loud.
Like, honestly, I was contentshoving it under the rug and
never talking about it everagain and forgetting.
That was kind of my family'sgenerational coping is just,
let's shove it under the rug andmove forward, and that's what
the journey I was planning on.
And God had a different planfor this story and for me and he
knew that in it I would findhealing.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And that's beautifully said, and as someone
who has consumed so much ofyour content through the years,
it is, I think, so beautifulthat you have taken unbelievable
grief and pain and turn thatinto a blessing for so many
people through your books andblog and videos and speaking
(04:14):
gigs through the years.
I mean so many people have beendirectly blessed.
Their lives changed forever asa result of hearing your story.
What does that mean to you?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, first it makes me feel very, I guess, humbled
and overwhelmed, because I knowthe backstory and it was more
like I got to be a voice forHeavenly Father because he asked
me to.
So I know that it wasn'tanything grand that I did,
except for listen to him.
(04:46):
But it also makes me feel veryhappy that I've had so many
people say like I know you knowJesus, like the way you write,
there's no way you don't.
And as I read, I felt him in mystory and I have seen his hand
in my life, his hand in my life,and that the bottom line, if
nothing else, in this whole lifeof mine.
(05:06):
I'm so grateful that I've hadan opportunity to feel what that
feels like for people to saybecause you were brave enough to
share this unique story andopen your mouth in a way that
you never wanted to, I feelJesus in my life.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, that's pretty remarkable.
And, I should add, it's notjust people like me who have
been perhaps through some tryingtimes, but nothing even
remotely close to what you'vebeen through.
But it's not just people likeme who have found inspiration.
No-transcript.
(05:55):
You've done some events withthese folks, people whose lives
have been changed in prettydramatic ways as well, and I
think you've sort of become Idon't know how do we say this A
mom, a leader, a cheerleader, anorganizer, a CEO of this army
of people who've been throughreally, really hard things, who
also want to share their storieswith the world.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, yeah, it's been really cool to, I guess, reach
out.
Some people have reached out tome and I reached out to them,
especially when I was reallydoing a lot of conferences
before COVID and these last twobabies.
It's been so cool to, I guess.
Okay, so I would call myself.
When I was in elementary, juniorhigh, middle school, all the
(06:37):
all the high school, I was kindof a gatherer like mainly
because I hated when people werealone or looked sad and I would
, I don't know.
I could like feel what they weregoing through when, if I just
looked over at them, I'm like no, you're not gonna be sad, you
come with us and we're all goingto be friends and we're not
going to do this alone.
Even when I was the new girl, Iwas kind of just gathering
people and that's kind of howit's been with with this journey
(07:00):
.
I see people hurting in theirown space and I've been there
and I thought I was alone and Ifelt so isolated and alone I
didn't even know how to reachout for a long time.
But those opportunities havejust brought people together and
just like this giant hug and ina giant room and just for me.
It's been a gift to my soul toknow that I'm not alone, and I
(07:22):
know that that's been theexperience of people who have
come to connect.
Because, even though we're allconnected virtually that
in-person embrace and sitting ina room full of warriors, that
you can just feel the strengththere's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's really a gift of empathy, right?
It's your ability to look atsomeone and to feel what they're
feeling and then to help themfeel seen and loved and lifted
and in all the things.
Well, we could end right hereand I think people would have
enjoyed the discussion, butwe're here to talk about your
children's book, which was newsto me, I must admit.
When you texted me the otherday, I was like, oh my goodness,
(07:58):
I had no idea that you had thisnew book out.
So tell us about the book, andI know there's a special mission
behind it, so talk about that.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So, okay, I'm going to make this quick to just get
to how this book came to be.
But the movie Onward came outyears ago and my son, who was a
tiny baby when his dad waskilled, watched this movie and
connected so much to thecharacter that he ended up in
therapy for like two years.
(08:30):
And while I was taking him totherapy, I was, I was listening,
I was watching, I was watchingmy other kids all through this
journey of healing.
I was bringing people to theseconferences and hearing their
stories and and um, one day itwas just like everybody's voice
came out on paper and I juststarted writing and I wrote this
(08:51):
book in probably 10 minutes andit took many years to figure
out what I wanted to do with it.
I didn't even know for surewhat I wanted to do with it.
Um, and then my daughter whenshe was in an eating disorder
facility years ago, I needed,like I kept praying, she needs
some sort of purpose, she needssome.
And I felt this like send herthe book.
(09:13):
And I'm like I don't even knowwhere I put that book.
I've literally written it onpaper.
So I went through all my stuff,found the book and I sent, I
typed it up and sent her a copyand I said I need an illustrator
.
You're the artist who'ssupposed to do this.
(09:33):
And it took her a long timebecause she said part of her
healing was drawing thesepictures of her and her dad and
her siblings with their dad anddifferent people in our family.
So she took these experiencesthat we had photographed and
turned it into the pictures thatare now in this book.
So it really became this, Iguess, uniting of my healing of
writing and hers of drawing, andshe finally finished this
summer.
She went through some reallyhard stuff and I kept feeling it
(09:54):
again tell her to finish thedrawings and she did.
And yeah, so I asked her firstfrom the very beginning.
I knew I always get littleglimpses of the cover and
different things when I'mworking on a book and sometimes
I write them down in the middleof the night.
But this one I just knew itcouldn't have faces on in the
pictures and it couldn't havecolor, and I think that was
(10:19):
coming back way from my childdevelopment.
Major Color can can reallycreate emotion for people and
for me, when I see someone'sface and I know they're sad, it
can tell me how they're feelingand I feel that way.
So I didn't want to have a bookthat told kids when you lose
someone you love, look at thispicture and it will tell you how
(10:40):
to feel.
I wanted this to be a book thatreally opened them up to
conversations.
And the coolest thing is, aspeople are starting to get this
book, I'm getting stories.
Even my neighbor her kids losttheir grandparents and she said
they read the book and then wetalked for hours.
It was like it just opened upall of their emotions and
questions.
But that's the whole purpose ofthe book.
(11:01):
It really is.
I tried to create it so itwasn't just about a kid and
their dad.
It's about a kid and their bigbrother or their big sister or
their grandparents someonethey're connected to their whole
life that now is gone.
So they can go through thegrief process with this book and
they can think about differentthings that can happen and all
(11:23):
of it can be okay.
Those emotions don't have to beheld inside, because look at
the kid in this book.
Oh my gosh.
They felt that too In themiddle of the night, when
they're scared.
They felt it too, like all thethings that come up through the
stages of grief for kids.
I want them to know it's okay,because I didn't even know, as a
parent, that it was all okaywhen my kids were going through
it.
So what I'm hoping is it's atool for parents to go hey,
(11:47):
let's talk about this Instead ofshoving it under the rug.
We're going to put it out inthe light and see if it'll feel
better.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I love the style.
I love the sketch pencil art.
It's sparse and I love I had noidea that was true about color.
It makes sense Now that you sayit it's like, oh yeah, that
makes a lot of sense thedifference between you doing
something perhaps in black andwhite and color.
But I love that.
(12:12):
It invites us to put ourselvesinto the picture, even the faces
.
And you know, what'sinteresting is you were talking,
I was thinking about this.
I did a pretty significantnumber of schools around my book
, scar Dakota in November.
I did a load of schools in aparticular school district where
(12:33):
I was talking to.
You know a couple thousand kidsa day and and I would often ask
how many of you have lostsomeone that you love.
And these are kids all the waydown to like third grade, third
through kind of seventh grade,which is kind of the target of
this particular tour.
And so many hands go in the airwhen you say have you lost a
(12:55):
parent, have you lost a sibling,have you lost a grandmother or
grandfather or a teacher?
I had some kids that raisedtheir hand for teachers and
administrators and school busdrivers and aunts and uncles and
all the things and and they.
They get it like this.
This idea that I mean Iremember, as I've said anyone
(13:16):
that's followed me knows that Ilost my dad when I was in high
school and I remember that nightis clearly I mean, it's been 30
, whatever years I remember thenight my father died as clearly
as if it were last night.
Right, and I'm certain you feelthat way about the night that
you got that knock at the doortelling you how you know your
husband was gone and your worldwas going to change forever.
Those memories are crystal clearand I think sometimes with kids
(13:36):
, we assume, well, you know,they're young and it's foggy,
and they're going to grow up andthey're going to grow out of it
and they're not going toremember all these things.
That's not true.
I mean, kiddos are so tuned inemotionally, and not just from
what they're experiencingthemselves, but also what
they're pulling in from theirparents, right?
I mean, I'm sure that your kidswere impacted by the grief they
were seeing you go through.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Totally.
Or the avoidance that I wouldgo into and try to pretend
everything didn't happen.
And you know we model behaviorsand we also have emotions
sometimes that we don't evenrealize our kids are picking up
on.
That can really affect them.
Or the not talking about it canreally affect them, because
then they're afraid to speak up.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, it's interesting, I think, about kind
of what I was going throughwhen my father died and I think,
wow, a lot of my pain actuallyin retrospect, was watching my
mother go through the lonelinessand depression and sadness and
(14:39):
depression.
And just processing all of thatwasn't just my own sense of
loss but it was, you know,living under the same roof with
a mom who is going through inmany ways something far more
challenging than what I was.
Who listening right now needsthis book in their home?
Let me ask you the reverse whodoesn't need this?
(14:59):
Is there anyone out therelistening right now that you
think maybe not now, maybe notyet?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was a whole group of grown adults and he said
everyone was bawling because allof us have lost somebody or if
we haven't like, it's crazybecause there's so many amazing
people in our lives that we'regoing to lose someday.
So, honestly, I thought it wasfor kids, but I think it's for
all of us.
I think as I read it and putmyself in the shoes of that
(15:38):
young kid and think about losinggrandparents and different
people there's and there'sdifferent times.
Those emotions are triggered,you know, because loss is
permanent and, whether we'vekind of moved on or not, some
things are going to remind usabout loss and there's going to
be times where a bunch oftraumas happen all at once, and
(15:58):
even recently.
Like this doesn't have to dowith this book, but I'm going to
talk about it for a second.
My son was in an accident witha lawnmower and he lost at least
the tips of all of his fingerson his left hand.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Oh my heavens.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
He, he.
So he went into surgery thatnight and it was one of those
moments where I was like, areyou kidding me?
Like what is wrong with ourfamily?
Like why do we have such badluck?
And I was kind of feeling sorryfor myself and almost
embarrassed to even like say outloud that this had happened,
because we've had a lot of thesekind of incidents.
My daughter got in a fight witha blunder and shredded her
hands like also hands like whatis happening years later?
(16:35):
So it was one of those momentswhere I was just me and Heavenly
Father were having kind of a Iwas having a pity party and just
kind of maybe a lecture, Idon't know.
But I said I was going, what isgoing on?
And he kept like my answer,kept saying you need to share
this and you need to ask forprayer warriors, and I'm like no
, I'm, I can't believe ourfamily always has some big
(16:56):
traumatic thing happening.
You know we have all been therethose months.
So the next day I get a call inthe morning from my daughter,
who I'm going to make this short.
She's on a mission in Mexicoand had a really scary
experience with an Uber who theythink was trying to kidnap her
and a couple other girls andluckily her got stuck in mud and
they got out and luckily theyhad had alerted a car or another
(17:18):
group to come and follow them.
Anyways, blah, blah, blah.
This has nothing to do with thetrauma that happened or the
people that I've lost, butsomething changed in my brain
that day.
This was a very traumaticexperience for me as a mom to
have these two things.
Literally, she said.
She got into the Uber as T wasgoing into surgery and I had
just put out a post saying Ineed prayer warriors.
(17:39):
My son and people from all overthe world are saying we're
praying for your family, but Ididn't.
The prayers helped my daughterand my son and eventually me,
but it took me a while.
Like I, those two experiencestriggered some of my old grief
that came up strong in it.
I had been working through itfor months.
This happened in November, sowe don't know when certain
(18:02):
things, even if they don't feelrelated, are going to trigger
our traumas and our loss fromthe past.
And this is what this book isfor is to help us realize that
all of it's okay, no matter howit comes back up or how you're
reminded of it or who you'velost.
It's okay to experience theemotions, even if it feels like
(18:22):
it was way long ago and you needto be over it.
Sometimes you're just not, andsometimes your body's still
holding on to some of that griefthat you need to let go.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I think it's so, so true that loss is not just.
You're sitting on the first pewat a funeral for your loved one
, right I've, just as you weretalking, I was thinking about a
very dear friend of mine.
A young adult recently wentthrough a divorce.
You know, no one's gone, noone's passed away, there was no
(18:53):
funeral.
But my heavens does she, andI'm sure her former husband,
feel a significant sense of lossand grief for the marriage
right?
So it sounds like the book hasvalue, no matter what kind of
loss you're experiencing.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh yeah, I think we could get one in every home.
I think that'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Let's make that happen.
A chicken in every pot I thinksomeone said that and a book in
every home.
So what is next after this?
What else is Ashley working on,Because I know that we were
talking before we beganrecording this episode that you
get about two, three hours ofsleep a night, whether you want
it or not, because you neverstop.
(19:36):
You literally never breathe.
What are you working on next?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well, first of all, I actually do sleep a lot.
My kids are on strict sleepschedule.
Well, my little kids, it's theteenagers that actually keep me
awake.
But what I am working on I haveabout four children's books
that will go with this series.
Some of them will be a littlemore specific.
Like I talked about my son whonever got to meet his dad and
(20:01):
that movie Onward kind ofreminded him and brought that up
for him.
I have a specific book that'llbe for a child who never got to
meet their parent, who ishealing without the memories
that everybody else has.
So I have a bunch of differentchildren's books that are going
to be part of this little seriesthat my daughter's going to
help me illustrate and actuallymy son wants to illustrate that
(20:23):
one.
So I'm not even sure howthey're all going to come out,
but they're.
They're going to be great.
Yeah, I'm, I'm still working.
I speak not as often as I usedto on purpose.
I am more specific on on howmuch I will speak, but I really
enjoy speaking and getting to bein the room with people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Awesome.
Well, I don't know if weactually said Boston's name at
some point, but we should,because the illustrations are
fantastic.
So I hope she's listening.
Shout out to her for helpingyou create this.
And I do see that it's listedon Amazon as the beginning of a
series, so I can't wait to seewhat else is coming and I hope
that you'll come back.
I hope every time I have a newbook out that you'll come back
(21:05):
and talk about it, and I hopepeople listening will give the
book a shot.
And you know what, if you'relistening to the show right now
and you're like you know what?
I just I don't know.
I don't know that I need thisright now, let me invite you to
pick it up anyway and to read itand then put it on your shelf
(21:25):
so that you're ready when you doneed it, because you will need
it either for you or for afriend from church or a neighbor
or a family member or a friendfrom work.
And what a blessing it would befor you and for them if you're
able to just pull that off theshelf and write a little note
and say this is for you.
I like that idea.
(21:46):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I love it.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
In the show notes I will put links to all of the
good things that you are doing,that you have done.
We'll link back to sort of yourorigin story a little bit maybe
on your blog and your othertitles on Amazon and we will
have you back on the show.
Thank you so much for giving ussome time today.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Thank you so much, Jason.
Good to talk with you.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.