Chapter 105: Summer's Almost Gone-The Bricca Family Murders w/ JT Townsend & Brian Santana

As summer drew to a close in September of 1966 in Cincinnati, Ohio, something terrible was happening at 3381 Greenway Avenue amid another killer's reign of terror attacking women. The Bricca family, Jerry, Linda, and their little girl, Debbie, were brutally murdered in their own home as their neighbors gathered in their homes, settling in to watch TV on that rainy evening. Decades later, the mystery of who committed this heinous crime and who was responsible remains unsolved. Today, I am joined by Brian Santana as my cohost as we sit down with the one man who has spent his life investigating this crime. J.T. Townsend walks us through the crime that has had a hold of him since childhood, so much so that he compiled his research into a comprehensive look at the case in his book Summer's Almost Gone. J.T. takes us through it all, from the timeline, the possible motives, and the person who he believes got away with murder



J. T. Townsend is a freelance writer, armchair detective, and lifelong resident of Cincinnati. He is the author of the 2009 regional best-seller Queen City Gothic, and 2014’s Queen City Notorious, and his work has appeared in the Cincinnati Enquirer, Cincinnati Magazine, Word Magazine, Crime Traveler, and Clews. He has presented over 300 programs in the Cincinnati area as part of his True Crime Lecture Series, including Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden, and the Lindbergh Kidnapping. He teaches his Cincinnati True Crime Detective class for the University of Cincinnati Communiversity division.
In 2018, he was featured on WCPO News, 700WLW Radio, and the Cincinnati Enquirer while promoting his new book Summer’s Almost Gone, a regional bestseller! In 2020, he appeared on WLWT News with Sheree Paolello.

Visit his website and get a copy of Summer's Almost Gone at www.jttownsend.com
Visit his Facebook Page at JT Townsend, True Crime Detective

Check out the interview I did with Brian and Cameron Santana on the murder of Virginia Olson here

Get Murder on Campus: The Professor, The Cop, and North Carolina's Most Notorious Cold Case Here

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every story has a beginning, but not everyone has an ending.
In the shadows of headlines and buried police reports lay
the voices of the missing, the murdered, and the forgotten,
waiting to be heard and have their stories told. This
is The Book of the Dead, a true crime podcast

(00:21):
where we remember forgotten victims of heinous crimes, reopen cold cases,
re visit haunting disappearances, and uncover the truths buried beneath
the years of silence. I'm your host, Courtney Liso, and
every week we turn to another chapter, one victim, one mystery,

(00:43):
one step closer to justice. Brought to you by Darkass
Network in Deep Podcasts with the Twist. Hello, Hello, Welcome

(01:10):
to the next chapter in the Book of the Dead.
Today we have a special episode one September evening. In
nineteen sixty six, something terrible happened inside a modest brick
home at thirty three eighty one Greenway Avenue. The brick
of family Jerry, Linda and their four year old daughter,

(01:31):
Debbie were brutally murdered in their home, no signs of
forced entry, no clear motive, and no one was ever arrested.
For decades, silence and fear gripped a community that refused
to look too deeply into its own shadows. Today I
am joined by two special guests. First with me is

(01:52):
true crime author and researcher JT. Townsend, whose book Summer's
Almost Gone dives into the brick of murders, one of
Ohio's most haunting cold cases in his own decades long investigation.
And also with me as my co host is Brian Santana,
author of Murder on Campus that dives into the murder

(02:13):
of Virginia Olsen at unc Asheville. We are going to
explore everything about the Brica case, the investigation, the possible motives,
and the suspect that possibly got away with murder. Thank
you both for joining me today. I'm very excited.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Thank you, Courtney, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
So I want to start at the very beginning. JT.
You were just a boy when the Brickas were murdered.
What was it about the case that resonated with you
so much that you spent decades conducting your own investigation?

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Courtney, I was starting in seventh grade. We had a
serial killer dubbed the Cincinnati Strangler, running loose in the city.
And between the fourth and fifth killings of the Cincinnati
SI Strangler, this beautiful family was butchered in their own home.
And in Cincinnati, the fertilizer hit the fan largest law

(03:10):
enforcement mobilization in city history. And I don't know what
it was. I'm in seventh grade and we're discussing this
in current events class, and I just became obsessed with it.
I remember talking about it that day. It was on
a Thursday, and as I detail in the book, that
night I had a horrible nightmare that the brick of

(03:31):
killer was killing my family and I wet the bed.
I was twelve, and that has started a lifetime obsession.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Somebody asked me, what is obsession? And I said, obsession
has no reason. That's why it's obsession. But I can
sum up for you about this case. This was an
investigation that stalemated when detectives were engulfed by a case
beyond belief, certainly beyond the parameters of nineteen sixty six,

(04:06):
and you had a prime suspect who lawyered up lived
the rest of his life under a cloud of suspicion.
I can't tell you how often I've thought about this guy.
What part of his brain. Did he store this in
all these years he went on about his business and
his life. I can't imagine where you put that in

(04:27):
your head, you know, when you're shaving. Oh, I murdered
three people ten years ago. I'm late for work though.
And lastly, a community here that is so obsessed with
this crime. The rumors are still flying after sixty years.
I feel a brick a rumor about once every two weeks,
and you go over into the West Side and it's like,

(04:48):
this thing just happened the other day. So I guess
that would address my obsession and certainly the city's obsession.
And you can't ignore what was going on. In nineteen
sixty six, we had Richard Speck killed eight nurses in Chicago.
Two weeks later, Charles Whitman snipes thirteen people from the

(05:11):
tower at the University of Texas. And a week before
the Brickers are murdered, we have Valerie Percy, daughter of
the senatorial candidate Charles Percy, murdered in her own home
a week before the Brickers. So we had these cases
of national crimes with no template. I mean, the Speck

(05:31):
and Witmen crimes. We'd never seen mass murder on a
scale like that. Of course, we're seeing it now all
the time, but in nineteen sixty six, these were unprecedented crimes,
and that's kind of the backdrop. And then you throw
in the Cincinnati strangler run and loose, and then the
Brickers are murdered. And I was already interested in true crime,

(05:53):
but when it came home to roost in my city,
that's when I knew that I was going to be
a true crime guy.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
JT If I could follow up on that, you mentioned
hearing about this when you were twelve and the brick
A case was talked about in your school as part
of the current events. You talk about a lot of
other crimes that were taking place both within Cincinnati and
also nationally, like you just described, were you equally aware
of those other crimes? So the brick acase was shocking,

(06:22):
it happened, But I was curious when I was reading this,
were you kind of aware of the atmosphere and context
in retrospect looking back, or as a twelve year old,
were you aware of these other crimes happening, And then
Brica also occurred.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
You really couldn't avoid the Richard spec Charles Whitman Valerie Percy.
These were national headlines, stunning crimes, and I do cover
them in the book. Richard Speck slaughtered eight student nurses.
Charles Whitman up on the tower, but he had already
killed his mother and his wife, so he was a

(06:55):
dead man walking. And the Percy mansion on Lake Michigan, Chicago,
this was an upscale enclave, and someone invaded this home
and murdered her. Really couldn't escape it. And you know,
I had followed the Boston strangler case a little bit,
and so I'm following the Cincinnati strangler and then all
of a sudden, the Brickers are murdered, and it just

(07:21):
imprinted on me at that point everything that was going
on that year, and I thought, oh my god, it's
happening here in Cincinnati, and it affected everybody I knew.
My mom talked about getting mace and getting a guard dog,
and we weren't even living where the strangler would strike.
But the brick A case really got to me. And

(07:43):
I'm twelve, and within four days of this crime, the
rumor was out that she was having an affair with
a veterinarian and how that got down to a twelve
year old in seventh grade. I'm not sure, but apparently
everybody seemed to wear almost immediately that there was a veterinarian,

(08:08):
A certainly a upstanding citizen in the community was possibly
involved in an adulterous affair with the female victim. I'm
not even sure I even understood what adulttery was, but
it was really astounding how quickly that theory and those
rumors started running through Cincinnati and running through my head.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I definitely want to come back to the veterinarian, But
tell me about the murders. What were the last few
days like for the Bricas and what happened immediately after,
because it seemed like there was a lot going on
the days leading up to and immediately after this crime
is committed.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
You know, you get a crime like this, Courtney, What
did the victim do differently in the last days of
her life? And for Lynda Bricca, she took a job
at the Glenway Animal Hospital a half mile from where
she lived on the West Side, and she started on Monday,

(09:12):
worked Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, didn't work the rest of the week,
and her family's murdered on Sunday. I can find nothing
else that was out of the ordinary for her, except
the fact that she took this job at this veterinary clinic,
and she had contact with the head veterinarian really all

(09:36):
six days leading up to the murder, either through work
or through meetings, clandestine meetings, And her marriage to Jerry
was definitely floundering, a lot of tension in that marriage.
Certainly had a major argument between them on Wednesday night
over her working at the clinic, and things seemed to

(09:56):
be coming to some kind of head. But I keep
going back to she went to work for the Glenway
Animal Hospital. It's the only thing out of the ordinary.
And if she hadn't taken that job, are we even
talking about this now?

Speaker 1 (10:13):
What about the fight that Jerry got into on Sunday
before their murders.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
That was Wednesday night. That was Linda's last night at
the clinic. She came home two hours late. She was drunk,
indicated that a cat had been brought in and she
and the veterinarian had worked to save it but couldn't.
And then they had drinks and she was late picking

(10:39):
up Debbie from the babysitter, and Jerry went ballistic and
apparently threatened to go over and beat the veterinarian up.
Now he didn't. Nothing came of that, but it was
definitely an argument in front of neighbors. You know, she's
two hours late picking up Debbie. Jerry's there and she's intoxicated.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
What was their dynamic like then, because obviously they have
this argument. She doesn't want her working at the animal hospital.
There were some moments in the book where you discuss
where Linda was not happy in their marriage. She had
a trial separation when she goes to Florida. You know,

(11:20):
would that have led to a possible affair.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, she'd known Fred Lininger. He's our main suspect since
nineteen sixty three. We know one thing about Linda Brickett's
that she was obsessive about her animals, and I get that.
I got a couple of cats here, but this appeared
to go beyond normal. She was constantly running down to

(11:47):
the veterinary clinic with questions and issues, and apparently she'd
been pestering Lining her to go to work there, and
he finally gave in on Monday. So she sees him
on Monday season, on Tuesday season, on Wednesday, makes an
urgent call to the clinic. On Thursday night, as recorded
by his answering service. I believe they had a rendezvous

(12:09):
that night. She is seen with him on Friday at
an archery range, and she's seen with him in a
car on Saturday for the murder. And according to the autopsy,
sometime that Saturday, Lindabriker had sexual intercourse with a man
who left seminel fluid in her and his blood type

(12:32):
did not match Jerry Brickers. And then Sunday we have
almost no information about her at all. She called in
a prescription about noon. Jerry is at work like he
always is. The guy worked eighty hours a week, and
we have very little insight into her last hours. Jerry
had a couple phone conversations. He was flying out the

(12:54):
next day on business, and then right about nine o'clock
nine to fifteen went down. He did go to a
store to pick up some milk and orange juice. That
clerk was one of the last people to see him,
and then a neighbor spoke with him briefly as that
he was taking out his garbage can and he walked
inside his house to be murdered on a rainy Sunday night.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Something I'm wondering if just taking a step back thinking
about the research and the timeline that you were just describing.
One of the things I know that many critics have
praised about Somers Almost Gone is just the incredibly detailed timeline,
really walking the reader through the last week and hours
of their life. And as someone who also had the
experience of recently writing and researching a book, I appreciate

(13:40):
how difficult that is, and I was really impressed with
the amount of detail you went into. Something I was
curious about was so you became really obsessed? Was your word?
I think by this case, when you were around twelve
years old, before you formally started researching and writing this book,
were you kind of informally collect being articles or doing

(14:01):
what could be considered maybe light research. And I guess
I'm wondering, when we're thinking about some of these details,
like the timeline and other thing, at what moment did
some of those details start to take shape over the
course of your history kind of with this case.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's a good question. I never lost sight of this case.
I remembered when I was in college talking to my
roommates about it. They weren't even from Cincinnati, and I
just kind of kept on it as a single man,
I was dating a girl on the West Side, and
she says, why are we always driving by this house
on Greenway? And I said, because that's where the breakers
were killed, you know. And we did that constantly. I

(14:39):
actually knocked on the door in nineteen seventy nine and
told the people I wanted to take a few pictures
of their house. I didn't want to disturb them. They
invited me in and I basically told them everything I knew,
tried to show them the logistics of the crime. They
thanked me, got my license number, and called the police

(15:01):
on me. In nineteen eighty two, I made an appointment
with a real estate agent when it was on the market,
and I took pictures inside the house. I said, yeah,
I have to send these to my fiance. She's away.
He never said a word about this crime, and we're
standing there right in the bedroom where it happened. Never
said a word. I think he knew what I was doing, though,

(15:23):
So I'm kind of haunting the house at this point.
And then I started writing a novel about it. Changed
some names. I called them the Deckers, and this novel
was going nowhere nowhere fast. But it really all came
to a head. I got colon cancer in two thousand

(15:43):
and seven, and I wrote my first book, Queensidy Gothic,
while I was taking chemotherapy, and it featured a brick
a chapter. And suddenly I retired and became a true
crime writer. And the key thing, there's one of the
key things. The county was guarding this file zealously. And

(16:04):
that's why the rumors are going, what are they hiding
in this file? Why can't anybody get in this file?
And I said, hey, freedom of information dudes. They go, oh, no,
this is an open case. And I said, well that
doesn't matter, and I filed an injunction against them. They
called me in dropped that injunction. Here's the file I

(16:26):
was in twenty fourteen and suddenly suddenly, Brian, the brick
of file is right in front of me. Here are
the crime scene photos. I've been thinking about this case
from nineteen sixty six to twenty fourteen. There it all
is right in front of me. And I'll tell you this.
I had always thought it was a lone killer. I

(16:48):
looked at the pictures. I looked at Jerry's Jerry Brick
as physique. I looked at Linda wearing that slinky neglige
that night. It's a Sunday night, and I immediate like,
looking at Jerry, looking at the layout of the house
and the crime scene, I'm like, one guy could not
have handled these three people and these two dogs. And

(17:09):
I'm not a conspiracy guy. There was more than one
person involved in this.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I agree with that, and I want to come back
to the other people that potentially were involved. But from
the second the police got there, there's already problems with
the investigation. What were some of the problems that occurred
and how big of an impact do you think it
had on the case.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well? Huge, Again, it's nineteen sixty six. We lost the
first forty eight. They were murdered Sunday night, sometime between
nine and ten, and even with garbage cans sitting out
in newspapers piling up, the neighbors seem strangely uncurious. So
they investigated Tuesday night, pushed open the door for forty

(17:54):
eight hours of death and decay come wafting out to
these people and they know there's something bad has happened
and in there. So we've lost the first forty eight.
I mean, you're canvassing for witnesses. You know, how many
people remember what they had for dinner two or three
nights ago. So that hamstrung investigation right away, and the

(18:16):
call went out is unknown trouble. So you've got police,
you've got EMTs, you've got firemen, you've got firemen's brother
in laws. You got thirty to fifty people trooping through
this house. There is no protocol, there's no signing sheet.
They're not wearing booties, they're not wearing protective clothing, they're
not wearing gloves. And this is nineteen sixty six. There

(18:38):
are no forensic guys. These are just overwork detectives that
have to do every single job, collect evidence, take photographs,
preserve the scene. And this is typical of most crime
scenes back then. There was contamination for sure. That being said,
I believe the evidence in the two bedrooms, the mass

(19:00):
bedroom with Jerry and Linda's bodies in the bedroom next
with Debbie. I believe the evidence in those rooms was
protected enough that they came up with a DNA profile
in two thousand and two, which is not a very
good profile. One of these not an OJ Simpson number.
You know, it's not a one in seventy million have

(19:20):
this profile. It's like a one in thirty. That's not
good odds in the DNA game. But the police told
me we're going to send this through cotis known felons,
and I said, well, if you won't get a hit,
they didn't, you know, I mean, I mean, our doer
in this case is an alpha male and a prominent
citizen is not a felon. But think a lot of

(19:43):
people that read about this case think, well, they queered
the crime scene, you know, and that just queered the
whole thing. No, I don't agree with that, and I
think there's DNA now that could be retested, and that's
what I'm working on to get it done. So there's
the first rumor, Brian, the crime scene is hopelessly compromised.

(20:05):
I don't think it was hopelessly So this is just
a function of crime scenes back then. You know, you
don't have a sign in lag, you don't have a
blood guy, you don't have a spatter guy, you don't
have a fiber guy. The second rumor was that they
were covering up for the suspect because he was such
a prominent businessman. And I discount that. I think you

(20:27):
guys know, after a second interview, this thing stalemated. He
had a good attorney, I mean a really good attorney,
and he put conditions forth that the police didn't want
to accept. They never got that third interview. I'm sure
they would have made an arrest at it, and this
thing stalemated. I don't think they treated this guy with

(20:48):
kid gloves. But conversely, that this suspect had been a
guy who carried a lunch Payo was a bag boy
at IgA, I don't think he would have been handled
so carefully with such deference. So those are the two
main rumors, and I really don't think either one of
them has a huge bearing necessarily on why this case
didn't get solved.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Linda's personality and perceived over its sexuality is a prominent
focus of the investigation. It's prominent focus in your book.
What made you and the investigator zero in on this
as a big factor in why they were murdered?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think the county investigators pushed off on the right foot.
They indicated this was a personal cause homicide. You know,
this was not a serial killer, This was not a
robbery gone wrong, and it wasn't even really a sex crime,
though I believe sex had something to do with it.
They decided early on that Linda was the target, and

(21:53):
I think they decided that correctly. So I've had people
occasionally accused me of slutch shaming Linda, and I really
don't mean to do that. She was not hell on wheels.
She wasn't going around doing every guy. There's rumors that
when she was an airline stewardess she was a call girl.

(22:14):
And I hear these rumors about how they found her
call girl notebook in the murder scene from when she
was a nineteen year old stewardess. It's ridiculous. She was
a stewardess for eight months and she dated Jerry for
four of those. She was not a nineteen year old
call girl. So but I think, and I state this unequivocably,

(22:35):
she had one affair that turned deadly. She was the target,
you know, Courtney. Initially, in my initial years of looking
at this case, I'm thinking one killer. It's lining her.
He's obsessed with her. She breaks it off, but I

(22:55):
can't have her, nobody can. I don't think that now.
I think she was a severe threat to Fredlininger his cushy,
upper middle class lifestyle. And I've seen the house he
lived in, very nice, very nice house. Longtime married guy
with five kids, making good money on the West Side.

(23:17):
And I may tell you about the West side of Cincinnati. Man,
it is a small town city. That was That was
the first. That was my chapter one title. Rumors are
rampant on the West Side. Everybody seems to know what
everybody's doing on the West Side. I don't live there,

(23:39):
but I'm over there a lot, and it's just it's
just that kind of place, you know. It all came
back to Linda. She was so beautiful. And I'll tell
you on my on my Bricka Unlocked group, I had
a guy who lives in Barrington. He took some photos
of the house Linda grew up in, and I knew
her parents were fairly wealthy, but shame on JT. I

(24:03):
had never eyeballed this house. It's a damn mansion. This
was a poor, little rich girl. You should see this
house and grounds, and yet here she is living in
this tiny tri level hovel with Jerry, after growing up

(24:24):
in this massive house. I never understood that about her,
how privilege her upbringing was. So Jerry and Debbie were
collateral damage. Linda was the target but I don't think
this was rage. I don't think this was passion. I
think it was fear, certainly rage against the two adults.

(24:50):
I think Jerry is killed while resisting. His throat is cut.
They put socks in his mouth to silence him and
put tape to gag him. Linda is stabbed on the bed,
face to face with the killer and thrown on top
of Jerry's body. And then when that anger subsides, there's
a discussion. Debbie's under the bed in the next room.

(25:13):
This poor child talked like she was ten. Her precocious
nature doomed her because she could certainly identify Uncle Fred,
and they could not leave this child alone. They could
not leave her alive. I've seen this in other murders. Specifically,
I'm thinking that Lizzie Borden case where she wailed on

(25:37):
the stepmother who she hated, and a ninety minutes later
she kills her father out of fear for him discovering
what she's done and trying to make it look like
a maniac got in the house. The adults killed in
a bit of a rage, the child killed out of fear.
Because people keep asking me why did they kill the child?

(26:01):
This child could identify people and the murder of Debbie.
And I've seen them. I've seen the pictures. I've seen
the morg photos and the crime scene photos. I can't
even look at the pictures of Debbie, you know, I
get dispassionate when I'm looking at crime scene photos of adults.
But those pictures of Debbie stretched out in that bedroom

(26:22):
where there's stuffed animal right outside of her reach. Oh,
I don't think they felt they had any choice. So
this is a personal cause homicide with one of the
killers emotionally entangled with one of the victims. It's definitely Linda.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
I guess I'm wondering along those lines that was that
was something that you had not considered before when you
finally get a hold of this case file. That's that
And you're the first person, if I'm correct, they ever
have access to the full case file?

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Was there?

Speaker 3 (26:53):
I'm assuming there was new information that did surprised you
when you were going through it that you didn't know before.
Is the first person have access? And I'm wondering was
there any were there particular pivotal elements for you in
the case file that really either shaped helped shape your
conclusions or that that maybe gave you pause with any
of your preconceived ideas before you had access to the

(27:14):
case file.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Good question. Some things were redacted from me, but I
got to see. You know, I've seen all the crime
scene photos. I've seen the Morgue photos. I've got the
entire interview file, three hundred and twenty interviews, and they
flagged sixteen of them as highly suspicious. And that would
include Fred Lininger's interview. They interviewed eight veterinarians, Linda liked veterinarians.

(27:40):
Three more of those were flagged. And then I always
like to say, Brian, every good mystery has a wild card.
Where's the thing on a left field that JAT didn't
see coming? And that would be Glenn skipper Le well

(28:01):
known local kitties show host in Cincinnati. I was on
his show with a bunch of cub scouts. This was
six months after the murders. I didn't know he was
a suspect, but the guy was a bit creepy and
he was quite a lowthereo Mary guy was not a
fanatic about it, and bingo, here's his interview. And he

(28:22):
is best friends with Fred Liiner. They are tight like glue.
And they flagged this interview as being evasive. They said,
Glenn Ryle is obviously a close friend of Fred Liinger
and we cannot expect him to cooperate. Glenn Ryle is

(28:43):
a former Marine or was Special Forces trained to kill.
If Fred Lininger is having a problem with Jerry Brica
and his life's about to implode, his comfortable life, who's
got his back? Glenn Ryle or one of these vets.
One of these other vets Herman Raider, and it's in
the book had stabbed people before. These are all cohorts

(29:07):
of doctor Fredleininger. So I think what surprised me back
to the original question the flag interviews. I really didn't
realize how some of these other vets in a locally
well known television personality were in this investigation and their
interviews were flagged as possible accomplices. I didn't didn't see

(29:30):
that coming.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Well, I guess speaking to that, is this one of
those cases where there's almost too many suspects, at least
early on for the original investigators. Because I think for
a lot of listeners, when they hear the word cold case,
if they haven't done the kind of research you have before,
they might imagine or be tempted to imagine cases where
the authorities don't really have a lot of really concrete

(29:53):
ideas or leads or suspects. But just from you describe
a number of them in the book, it seems like
there's a i lot of really suspicious people, both immediately
around the neighborhood in the city. It seems like there's
no shortage of people you can look to.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
I think that speaks to the thoroughness of this investigation.
And Brian, consider this. There's no computers, there's not even
any iPhones. This is knocking on doors, this is shoe leather,
this is informants. And they started off in the right foot,
and it's the headlines are there and I'm looking at
him now. Neighbors think Brick a killer, no stranger. This

(30:31):
was the second day, did murder? No brick as indication
said he did so of all the six classifications of murder,
they started off on the right foot. This is personal cause,
this is somebody who knew the victims. So then, what
can you do in a nineteen sixty six environment when
you don't have the tools we have today? It's about elimination.

(30:53):
Who can we eliminate. And they looked at everybody that
had contact with this family, a family, friends, co workers,
people in the neighborhood, the garbage man, the male man.
If you gave Jerry a quote for trimming his trees
two years ago, they talked to you. If you did
a quote for carpeting in the brick of house, they
talked to you. They went through that brick of phone book,

(31:15):
every babysitter, every coworker. They interviewed twenty people at Jerry's work.
And the whole idea is to eliminate because it's a
logistical nightmare, as you stated, it really is. So how
quickly can we start eliminating these people that had contact
with this family? And eventually it narrowed down to about

(31:37):
five people. Three of them are vets, one of them
is a kiddy show host. And these are the people
that they couldn't specifically eliminate, and doctor fred Lininger remains
at the top of that list. But I felt for
these guys. They didn't have the tools we have today.
You know, and think back to Courtney's question about Linda's

(31:59):
movement the week of the murder. Imagine if she'd been
on social media. Imagine if we had her online footprint
that week. We don't. We don't have anything like that.
People had landlines. I remember that this is a logistical nightmare,
and they pushed off in the right direction. The goal

(32:20):
was elimination. Let's interview these guys and let's close them out,
and I think they did a really good job of that.
Virtually everybody who had even remote contact with this family
was interviewed. It's staggering when you look at this interview file,
it's huge.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Speaking of the media and then doing all of these
stories on the Brick goes What was the media's impact
on the investigation? Because they're simultaneously talking about the Brick
of murders, but they're also talking about the Cincinnati Strangler.
Was there any sort of weird overlap that impacted the
investigation either positively or negatively?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Many of them? You can't take the Strangler away from Bricka.
You know, I've had some people that reviewed my book
and why did he put all that strangler stuff in there?
You know, why did he talk about those other cases?
And I don't think I spent a lot of time
on him, But what was I supposed to say? And
by the way, we had a serial killer that killed

(33:20):
seven women. Back to Bricka, No, I uh, you know,
ninety percent of the book's BRICA. The strangler is the
B plot, and you hate to assign a serial killer
that killed seven women to a B plot. But interesting
headlines in the media Bricker killer believe white because the
strangler had been identified as a short, slightly built black man,

(33:44):
and there was tons of racial tension going on. This
is nineteen sixty six, and people were worried that there
was going to be some vigilanti action against black people
because of the strangler. And the lead investigator of BRICA
made sure he got that out there. The strangler did
not kill this family, and the brick a killer was white.

(34:05):
I thought, wow, that's interesting. They really felt like they
had to put that information out there fairly quickly. So
we've got we've got competing stories here, Bricka and the
strangler and eventually Bricca and I've got the headlines right here.
One brick of suspect remains police admit, and eventually, a
year after the crime, the prosecutor said, I know who

(34:28):
killed the brick as he's hiding behind his lawyer, So
why didn't they mention his name? That's still I still
wonder about that because I talked with Mike Allen, he's
a friend of mine and a former prosecutor, and he said, absolutely,
a legitimate suspect, I would have put his name out there,
you know, that's not libelous or anything. But they didn't,

(34:49):
and that tells me the status of Fredliner. And I
also know that the prosecutor at the time, Mel Ruger,
was close friends with Langer's lawyer, a former prosecutor, so
I'm not saying he's covering up. But they kept this
guy's identity out of the papers, and yet people seemed

(35:12):
to know it was lining her. So I think the
racial thing was interesting. The way they wanted to make
sure that people knew this wasn't the strangler, it wasn't
a racial killing, and the fact that the prime suspect's
identity was closely guarded, those were definitely unusual kind of factors,
I think.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
So we have Lininger, he's the main person that the
police police kind of considered to be a prime suspect.
Who you consider to be the prime suspect. There were
three people spotted outside of the Bricka's home on the
night they were killed. Two men and presumably a woman.
If we go with the assumption that the second person
was either another veterinarian or the show host, who would

(35:55):
the woman have been. That's what I kind of can't
figure out.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Well, Accordney, I've given that a lot of thought. We
had three people seen by two separate witnesses about eleven thirty.
Now the murders have already gone down. I think the
murders went down by nine thirty or ten. Why are
these people still there? And why is that newspaper missing
from the driveway as well? How long were people in
and out of that house? But I believe those people

(36:21):
were involved. This is a Sunday at rainy Sunday night,
there's no other cars on the street, there's no other
people out, and here's these people getting in front of
in a car in front of a house where we
know in hindsight that a grizzly triple homicide had just occurred.
I don't believe in a coincidence like that. I have

(36:42):
come to look at this in different ways. And again,
if we're looking at this crime of fear of exposure,
of scandal, of shame, in interruption to Lininger's cushy lifestyle,
who do you pick to help you? Do you pick

(37:02):
friends or do you pick family? And lately I've been
looking at Fred Lininger's wife, Lynn Lninger, who astoundingly is
the only person in the interview file who refused to
be interviewed. They went to her house and she gave
him the lawyer's card and was like, Nope, not happening.

(37:23):
And her brother William Row, who for some reason, was
never interviewed. And here I am saying they interviewed everybody
that had contact with his family in Bingo. There's an exception.
I see no interview by the brother in law in
the file at all. And I'm not a big conspiracy guy.
I mean, what do they say three people can keep

(37:44):
a secret if two of them are dead? Are you
going to go with your family or friends to keep
a secret for the rest of your life? And now
I'm literally wondering was it Lynn Lininger and her brother
who helped? Because when you look at this kind of crime,
wives find their husband cheating, they don't seem to get
mad at the husband, to get mad at the other woman.

(38:07):
Who could he trust to keep this kind of secret?
And as we know, Courtney, Fred and Nlninger died in
an attempted suicide pact. In two thousand and four, Fred died,
Lynn lapsed into a Cooman died nine months later. That's unusual.
And you drive from Sarasota, Florida to Cincinnati for this

(38:31):
suicide pact. And interesting they had just publicized the DNA
profile the year before. And I'm not sure if the
liningers were aware of this or not, but suddenly think
how risky this is, Courtney. They drive all the way
up to Hamilton County, that's the jurisdiction of the crime.

(38:53):
And they made sure they were in the city of Cincinnati,
not the county regions, in this hotel, and they killed themselves.
But that's risky. But by the time anybody understands that, hey,
this guy that he and his wife that tried to
kill themselves. The guy who died, he's in the ground.
But that's the bricks suspect. Oh, it seemed to go

(39:17):
right past everybody. What a ballsy move to come back home.
Maybe they just wanted to make sure their kids didn't
have to transport bodies or anything. But if somebody had said, hey,
Fred Lininger, isn't he the guy, shouldn't we get DNA, Yeah,
didn't happen. That's a fascinating end to his saga as

(39:39):
a prime suspect, because I don't think a lot of
husbands and wives try to kill themselves in a suicide pact.
And you know, she's been married to this guy for
fifty years or more, and for thirty eight of those
years she's been the prime suspect in a grizzly triple homicide.
So what was that last conversation like the doorway to

(40:00):
the next world or did she know all about it
because she was there? And for you, that really addresses
that problem. Was like you were saying, one of the
questions I was thinking about, if this is someone totally
unconnected to the family, the likelihood that this person goes
the rest of their life without ever alluding to or
even anyone in their life suspecting or having any clue

(40:22):
that they were it just seems very small, right. It's
such a unique, heinous crime. I don't carry that you're
just a friend. Family stuff is different. You know, family
secrets go to the grave sometime. And again I have
no evidence other than Lynn lining or refusing to be interviewed.

(40:43):
The only person in the file, Brian refusing an interview,
lining or sat down twice, he didn't refuse, he refused,
the third one she refused. And the brother, for whatever reason,
I find nothing in the file on this was never
spoken to at all. I attempted to interview her brother
after his death. His wife I called her on the phone.

(41:07):
I told her why I was wanting to speak with her. Click.
It was a short conversation. I don't know can draw
conclusions from that as they are, But what kind of
pressure is Linda Bricka putting on this guy? I did
a forensic profile of the killer. I used the FBI website.

(41:28):
Above average intelligence, socially and sexually competent this so far,
check and check for Lininger likely to be a skilled worker.
Check living with a partner or married, Check controlled mood
during the crime. I think one of these guys had
to have some control alcohol use associated with the crime.

(41:50):
People have said that he was a borderline alcoholic. And
here's the big one, Brian precipitating situational stress. How's this, Fred,
I'm carrying your baby. The leading cause of death for
pregnant women remains homicide. How's that for statistic? Pregnant women

(42:13):
are young, they don't typically die of natural causes. Homicide
and automobile accidents are the leading cause of death. Linda
had told people at the wedding of Jerry's sister her
period was late. Then you dive back into her file
before she met Jerry, and her own obstetrician said that

(42:34):
Debbie was not her first pregnancy. There's something from the
file that just floored me. Not her first pregnancy. And
we know she had a six month hiatus in Florida
before she became a stewardess, and that was supposedly because
her new boyfriend had died. I have can find no
information on that. And she's in Florida for six months,

(42:56):
just enough time to have a baby and give it
up for adoption possible. There's a child of Lynda Brica
that would be probably in her mid sixties out there
now is.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
What that brings us back to the whole idea of
forensics in this case. And so you talked about it
wasn't necessarily a limitation that could have been avoided. In
nineteen sixty six, the technology was just different. They they
could tell a blood type through a semen sample, They
could do a secretor test and it kind of eliminate
some of the population. But I guess I'm wondering between
nineteen sixty six and I guess today, technology has changed significantly,

(43:35):
and because this case was so prominent in Cincinnati, was
there much an appetite within Hamilton County? As new technologies
continue to develop over the years, do they go back
and retest materials consistently or were you able to get
a sense of how much investment are are they putting
into emerging technologies and going back and revisiting this case

(43:56):
between sixty six and I guess today.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
This is the most notorious murder mystery in Cincinnati history.
I had thirteen cold cases in my book Queensity Gothic,
and I looked at forty cases before I picked the
final thirteen. Brick is the King. I've had more rumors
about Bricker than all the other cases combined, So one
would think that there would continue to be active efforts

(44:24):
in bringing this case to a resolution. Previous regimes at
the Sheriff's office absolutely tight lipped nothing. I myself was
ordered out of a county by a previous sheriff when
I showed up there. They guarded that case file. They
really guarded it. Zealously, So I really don't know how

(44:46):
proactic they were through the years. I will tell you this,
the evidence was not preserved well in nineteen sixty six,
and I guess they had no real protocol for that.
And we're down to apparently cigarette butts, neither Jerry Linda smoke,
human hair found in Linda's hand and the seminal fluid

(45:08):
taken from her that was either from a rape at
the crime scene or recent intercourse with the killer. And
they went back and forth on that was this rape
was this recent intercourse? Here's what bothers me about that.
There's a picture in Summer's Almost Gone with the prosecutor
with a gurney with thirty boxers of evidence going to

(45:30):
the FBI. Where is it? I ask about the piece
of tape they found on Jerry's face. Everything in that
crime scene, Brian could be reconciled with that house, except
that piece of tape that was brought in from the outside,
very unusual tape. Where is it? Because at this point

(45:51):
it's cigarette butts, the hair, which I'm told is just
a root, and the semen, which the coroner told me
is basically we just dust. But hey, there's all kinds
of ways to duplicate DNA today.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
You know.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
And I don't know if we want to talk about
the path forward or not at this point.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Just to follow up with something you said about the FBI.
I know in the case file there's I think what
the FBI, the fingerprints they sent off to the FBI
and other things. The FBI, A lot of departments might
not have had standards and protocols during this nineteen sixties
for crime scene management like we think of today, at
least as you mentioned, but the FBI did have like
standards and protocols at least and did are different from today.

(46:33):
But they were the best trained in terms of, like
you know, crime whatever the emerging technology was at the time.
And I guess what was that relationship. Did you get
a sense of the relationship between the FBI and Hamilton County,
because at least they would have had the ability to
assist with more resources than what was available at Hamilton County.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Absolutely, they were state of the art in nineteen sixty six,
and they were called in on the Strangler Brian as well.
And I find that odd FBI typically does not be
involved with murder unless there's kidnapping extortion or interstate flight.
So why were they down here helping with the strangler?
And why did they send evidence on Brica which doesn't

(47:14):
fit FBI involvement. Again one of my many questions, why
wasn't this evidence better preserved? But then you can say, well,
it's nineteen sixty six. I mean, if you'd have said
DNA to a cop in nineteen sixty six, he'd go,
what does that stand for?

Speaker 1 (47:33):
DNA?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
What is that? But nonetheless, and I have a burgeoning
file of cold cases from the sixties and seventies that
are getting solved quite a lot. And it's delicious when
the suspect is still alive and they knock on the door. Now,
with Brica, they're all deceased. But I've seen tons of

(47:57):
cold cases closed with deceased suspects and you go to
that family, your father, brother, uncle killed these people in
nineteen sixty six, and you go to the family the victims.
We have solved this. It is closed. And that is
my goal now to get that done. And what does
that look like. We need We need an updated profile

(48:19):
from the two thousand and two, and at this point
I need to bring in Parabond or orthrom I'd love
to get CC Moore involved on this. You know, genetic
genealogy and DNA phenotyping system are what we need here.
And this is all about building that family tree from

(48:42):
the DNA and narrowing it down to suspects. And all
we have to do is place a suspect inside three
three eight one Greenway on the night of September twenty fifth,
nineteen sixty six, and we can solve this thing. And
that is the that's the pro to call for solving
them now. And you know that's that's basically my thrust

(49:05):
at this point. I have a meeting at County next
week to go over all this. You know, Brian, I
wish I could say they had the fervor that I do.
They're dealing with day to day crimes all the time.
Now I can't seem to infuse them with my passion.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Do you know if did they ever collect anyst saliva
or hair from doctor fred Lineger in the nineteen sixties.
Originally they stole his hat was at lunch Mett's back
when menmore hats, they sent it to the FBI. I
would believe if there had been a match, they would
have they would have said so there would have been

(49:40):
some kind of movement on that I'm not aware that
there was. They had guys sitting next to him when
he was having lunch. Can you imagine this, Brian? They
shadowed this guy for years. Every time he gets a haircut,
he's got to be nervous. If he's having a few
vodka martinis, there might be a guy one table over

(50:02):
that's just waiting for him to say something incriminating. And
the thing that I was informed of, deputies would stop
lining her when he's coming out of a bar in
the seventies and they'd roused him. Hey there, Doc, how
you doing?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
You know, boy? You know sure is a shame what
happened to that Brica family back in nineteen sixty six.
You know, how can anybody do that to that child?
He had to stand there and take it. I guess
they walked right up to the line of harassing him
without crossing it. And I got to admit, if you
ask me what really got me obsessed with this taste,

(50:42):
it was the thought of lining her. Living with this
day after day, being nervous about a new client at
his business. You know, why is this client coming all
the way over here to see me as a vet.
And why are these deputies roused me? Are they still
following me? You know, because they followed them for at

(51:05):
least three years. And Brian, I myself had serious thoughts
about going to that clinic with a cat. I didn't
do it. I'm kind of regretting. I needed to be
in a room with this guy, and I didn't do it,
because here's how it would have gone. Oh why are
you here? Oh you were highly recommended my regular vets.

(51:25):
I should take my cat to you. Oh what's your
cat's name? Ricca? That had been a short meeting. I
wish I'd done it, just to see this guy.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
So with those samples, they have the ability to potentially
do a one on one comparison if the I guess,
if the theory is that the accomplice was someone that
would share many of the same genetic markers from the
same family, and if they have, assuming that samples haven't
degraded the saliva or just the hair samples that were
taken before, they could do that one to one comparison.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Now theoretically, but you've got to build it on a
genealogical family tree. And I got to admit I am
not well versed in this. That's why we've got these
people like Ccmore. And you've got a list of suspects.
I saw a case recently where it narrowed down to
four brothers in a family and they eliminated three of

(52:17):
them and they dropped the fourth when he did it.
So you're going to look at a you know, maybe
our top five suspects and see if the family tree
of the suspect is fleshed out, and where do we
get matches, where do we get intersections. I myself don't
really know a lot about how it works. That's why

(52:38):
we have these experts. I'm astounded at how many of
these cases they're closing from the sixties and seventies and eighties.
It's really remarkable what they're doing. And that's the goal
with Brica. I've told County don't let money be an object.
I was at a meeting in County with twenty people

(52:59):
a couple of years ago. I have put all my
proceeds from my book in a really nice dividend paying
account on Schwab and it's sitting there and I haven't
touched it. And I don't want them saying we can't
afford to do this testing, I'll put the money up.
I never I never got in this to make money.
Just there's just all sorts of different angles to this case,

(53:22):
just the logistics of the crime. You know, I'm certain
they killed Jerry first. The guy looked like he could
have snapped your head off with his ring finger. And
I saw him naked on a coroner's slab, dead three
days and he's still was physically imposing. And when I
saw those crime scene photos, I said the detective across

(53:43):
from me, look at the size of this guy. One
guy with a carving knife is going to handle this really.
And I just posted on my brick a group last
night one of the crime scene photos of the living
room and I hadn't seen this detail. But there on
the couch is one of Linda's dog leashes. And they

(54:06):
interviewed the babysitter and she said that leash was always
hanging on a cupboard door in the kitchen. She said,
it bothers me that it's on the couch, and there
it was. I look at the photo. Is that what
they trust Jerry up with? You know, where's that leash?
Can we get DNA off that leash? Because somebody moved it, So,

(54:29):
I mean, we could go on and on with this
kind of stuff. Really, all the questions about it was
with Linda seeing more than one man. And I don't
think Linda Brickle was in this for the sex. If
she's threatening lining her and I'm going to go back
to something we talked earlier, Fred, I'm carrying your baby.
That's one one A is this? Fred? You promised me

(54:50):
you were going to leave your wife and we were
going to move away and start our own veterinary clinic.
And Linda's father, quite wealthy, had indicated he would bankroll that.
So what promises were made? Pillow talk between Fred and Linda.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Was this common for Leneger outside before Linda, because you
mentioned a few times in the book. I believe that
Linda is kind of constantly or at least is reported
that Linda is constantly asking Lyneger about having this part
time job. She's really interested in this. It doesn't sound
like he immediately hired her, and so he's if I
play Devil's advocate, so he's like he's like very taken

(55:27):
with her initially. Why do you think the hesitation to
hire her when he could have her in such close
proximity there ran.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Let's go back to something I said at the top.
What did Linda do differently the last week of her life?
Only one thing. She went to work at the glen
Way Animal Hospital. And let's get into a couple of
wild theories here, all kind of rumors about the vets
on the West Side with backdoor abortion Clinton, I hear

(55:56):
it all the time. The other one is this Tanic
cults were quite prevalent in eastern Indiana and western Ohio.
And that's what we're that's the area we're talking about
right over there on the border of Indiana and Ohio
where this crime happened, Satanic cults. I mentioned it in
the book. I interviewed a woman. She said lining her

(56:19):
was supplying drugs to this group to anesthetize animals before
they were sacrificed. I mean, when I first heard the
satanic cult thing, I laughed. I got an anonymous email
this guy said, absolutely these people killed the Brickas because
Linda was going to expose them. So in the three
days she worked at the glen Way Animal Hospital, what

(56:44):
did she uncover? Is she pregnant or if she's not pregnant?
And the autopsy showed she wasn't did she uncover some
malfeasance and mistreatment of animals, because Linda Bricka would not
have She would not have let that stand. If animals
were being sacrificed in we know that much about her,
she'd have turned them in. So is this the reason

(57:06):
for the murders? And I'll tell you, Brian, I sat
across from this woman. She was either the Meryl Streep
of actresses or she was reliving a horrific childhood experience.
And I have some of the names. Most of them
are deceased. These were some prominent West Side people involved
in this group allegedly. So how's that for another wrinkle?

(57:29):
But again, what did Linda do differently? You want to
look at that in any murder case. What did the
victim do that week or that day that was out
of character? What did the killer do that was out
of character? It seems unrelated, but they never have done
it before. Well, she'd never worked at a clinic before,
and suddenly she goes to work for a liner's clinic

(57:51):
and they're murdered. I have to think it's related. What
was going on at these clinics Because if you read
the book, A lot of these other vets were kind
of bent. They all seemed like they were a little shady.
Lining her Keller, Raider Weedick. They all seemed like they
were a little iffy. An interesting fact, the suicide rate

(58:16):
among vetinarians is very high, one of the highest of
any profession. And Lining her committed suicide. I just get
back to her taking that job. He did not want
her there, I'm certain of that. What pressure was brought
to bear? Was she going to just explode this guy's life?
Was she pregnant? This was not a rage, obsession crime.

(58:38):
I'm going out on a limb. This was not an
obsession with Linda Brica and a rage that she broke
off the affair. I think this was fear. This was protection,
fear of scandal. If his affair is brought to light
on the West Side, it could ruin his business and
his life.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Because looking at what they did differently right before them,
Mark obviously lying her head, hired, Linda agreed to have
her work. There was there anything else he did that
was out of character that week?

Speaker 2 (59:08):
The call she made to his answering service on Thursday night,
I've listened to the interview, you know, the second interview
of Lininger. That changed the whole case. He apparently never
got that message about that call. He absolutely freaked during
the interview. His whole demeanor changed. Oh, I was not
aware of that. Then she shows up at his guy's

(59:30):
only archery range on Friday, and according to the friend
with him, he was extremely uncomfortable. And then supposedly he
is seen in a car with her on Saturday, but
he trapped himself. When is the last time you saw
Linda Brica a Wednesday night at work? Well, Bud, you lied,
You saw her Friday, and you saw her Saturday, so

(59:50):
they caught him there. From my standpoint, in an interrogation,
a bad lie is almost as good as a confession.
Circling back, did he do anything out of character? You know,
he seemed to be going on with his life. I
can't say anything that really stands out other than hiring
Linda Bricka and almost immediately he hires another couple to

(01:00:13):
work there and to live in the clinic. And then
he offers Linda Wednesday only, you know, which I'm sure
she didn't like. But he's going to keep her on
for Wednesdays. But I don't think he wanted her there
I really don't. So what kind of pressure was she
bringing to bear on him? What kind of as the
FBI said, what kind of precipitating situational stress did she

(01:00:35):
inflict on fred Lininger? Because I don't think Lininger was
inflicting any stress on her. He just wanted to have
his cake and eat it too, you know. He wanted
his cushy life to go on, and he wanted the
affair to go on. Typical man. But Linda wasn't having it.
This is a this is a poor little rich girl

(01:00:55):
that grew up in a mansion who obviously has hired
inspirations than living in this little house with Jerry Brica.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Well, one of the last questions we really want, the
last question I really have for you is did you
get any pushback from anyone you spoke to while you
were writing Summer's Almost Gone? You know? Was it was
there anyone that was very vocal about you not doing this?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Absolutely too much to count? Why are you digging this up?
You know, what's the point after all these years? And
let me tell you I have been I got a
mild death threat, specifically about what I said about Glenn Ryle,
the Kitty Show host because everybody grew up with Glenn Ryle,

(01:01:39):
and they're thinking, oh, what a great guy, what a
great kitty show host guy, how dare you say this
about him? And all I said was he was interviewed
by investigators, he was closely linked with the prime suspect,
and the police felt that he would not cooperate. That's
all I said. But people, how dare you trash Glen Ryle?

(01:02:03):
And I did a lot of research into this guy.
Oh my, I've got Glenn Ryle stories. This guy was
not a beloved kiddy show host, talk about bent talk
about a guy who was a player out there with women,
a married man, and he and Lininger were buddies. Lyinger
appeared on the skip of Ryle Show with animals. They

(01:02:26):
have footage of him on there with Glenn Ryle, and
Glenn Ryle was a scary looking guy. He could have
handled Jerry Bricker.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
People didn't like the Glenn Ryle stuff at all. And
other people were like, why are you digging this up?
And I've had people say why are you trashing Fred Liner?
And I'm saying, I'm just going what's in the file
and extrapolating the evidence and speculating about his involvement. I
was very clear in the disclaimers at the beginning of

(01:02:55):
the book. You know these are a lot of these
are my subjective opinions. Do not represent an accusation against
any person, living or dead. I think most people have
been very positive about the book, because all everybody knew
about this case until I wrote this book was the rumors,

(01:03:15):
and suddenly here's all the rest of it. And the
vast majority of people really like this book. I've got
good reviews. I would encourage listeners here to buy it
on Amazon or go to my website www dot JT.
Townsend dot com. Buy the hardcover. Any book that goes

(01:03:36):
out of here is signed by me. I think it's
a hell of a read. I know some people are going,
why did you put the strangler in? Why did you
mention Richard Speck. I even got Ted Bundy in here
in this book, and I'm fascinated by Ted Bundy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
I was wondering if you could talk about the title
of the book. Was one of the things that I
first drew me to this book. I didn't know anything
about the Brickway case before reading your book. I remember
it popped up as a recommendation, and I thought some
are some almost gone. That's a really beautiful poetic title
for a true crime book. And there are these passages
like I'm looking at one right now from page one

(01:04:11):
twenty one of the book, where you write, clouds began
to move in that evening as autumn stretched amid yawning shadows,
the hot, sticky life of summer was waning, and soon
bursting leaves would curw into rich reds and golds gathered
for bonfires, and signaling crisp and poignant beginnings. Is very
beautifully written, and I was wondering it seemed like you
were investing a lot of symbolic value in this, beyond

(01:04:34):
all of the kind of getting into the weeds like
we have talking about these details. It had a larger
symbolic value. And I'm curious about what does the brick
a case mean to you on that kind of like
larger scale. And how did you come up with the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Title, Well, that's the titles of a Doors song. I'm
a big fan of the Doors. Back in the day,
the murders happened right on the cusp of bottomn The
life of Spring is gone, The life of Summer's gone,
and suddenly we're getting into a beautiful, poignant season where
things are starting to die. Winter coming up, just a transition,

(01:05:04):
you know, Summer's over, it's almost gone. I think you
captured as well as I did. It's the end of
It's the end of something good. And here comes the pain,
Here comes the sorrow, the grief, you know. The murders. Coincidentally,
two weeks after the Bricks were murdered, the Cincinnati Strangler,

(01:05:27):
as if throwing down the gauntlet, murdered Alice Hakhausler on
her driveway in the Clifton Gaslight District. This was the
seminal crime of the Strangler. This woman was the wife
of a chief surgeon, a good samaritan. The Clifton Gaslight
district shade trees, big Victorian houses, Nothing bad happens there.

(01:05:49):
And this woman was murdered on her own driveway, steps
from her back door, with her husband and seven children inside.
The juxtaposition of Bricca and then how Houser. Two weeks later,
the Fertilizer hit the fan largest law enforcement mobilization. They
moved Halloween to the daytime, so October of sixty six

(01:06:11):
is the key month. The Brick investigations picking up steam.
The Strangler goes, oh yeah, brick and killer. How about this,
I'm going to take a popular socialite who was active
in the arts and charities. I'm going to kill her
on her own driveway. Take that. October was the month

(01:06:32):
when everybody was just fearful. I was thinking I was
going to trick or treat. I was in seventh grade,
and I'm like, is that cool? It will be a
seventh grader in trick or treat? And then they said
it's in the daytime. Oh no, no, I'm not doing it.
I watched those kids walking around in the daytime. What
an overreach, Brian like the Strangler would kill a child

(01:06:54):
trigger treating. Its absurd. But that's indicative of what was
going on in the city in October of sixty six.
In the fall of sixty six was summer almost gone.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
And so it's also about you as well. You were
on that cusp of teenage years and this is about
a shift in your life too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Yeah, it was a period of transition for me, as
is junior high for any elementary school kid. Yeah, it
was quite a transition. And look what was going on
the Strangler and Brica, so it is. It is a
book about me to some extent. How I've carried this
with me all through the years. This is my case,

(01:07:36):
just like you have a case, Brian, Courtney's got a
case too that goes bumping your head in the night.
And thank God for the armchair detectives like you, like Courtney,
like me, that we keep these cases alive long after
the jurisdictions dropped it, you know, And that's why podcasts
are so popular. Hey, we can be the detective. You know.

(01:07:59):
I have no law forced and I'll put my detective
chops up against anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Thank you both so much for joining me today. It
has been a pleasure speaking with you. And thank you
guys so much for listening as we shed new light
on one of Cincinnati's most haunting unsolved cases. The Brica
family murders. A young couple and their little girl brutally
murdered in their own home in nineteen sixty six, has

(01:08:25):
left behind a mystery that has endured for nearly six decades.
But hopefully soon that case may not be as cold
as we once believed. There a questions raised by Jat's
meticulous research that he has poured into his book Summer's
Almost Gone. One thing is clear, someone out there knows

(01:08:45):
the truth. If you have any information about the Brica case,
even something you think might be insignificant, contact the Cincinnati
Police Department or reach out to the Cold Case Unit.
After all this time, justice for the Brickas is long overdue.
And don't forget to check out the episode description for

(01:09:06):
links to JT's book where you can find Summer's Almost Gone.
I'll put the links for Amazon and his website in
the description, although I suggest getting it from JT's website
because he'll sign it for you, as well as links
for Brian's book Murder on Campus. There will also be

(01:09:26):
a link to the episode that I did with Brian
and his brother Cameron all about their book in the
Murder of Virginia olsen As. Always leave me a review
and share the episode. You never know who might be
listening or what they may know. But until next time,
I hope you have a wonderful week and I'll see

(01:09:49):
you in the next chapter of the Book of the Dead.
And if you've made it this far, here is a
sneak peek for next week's episode. Next time on the
Book of the Dead, we head to Albany, New York,
where nineteen year old Suzanne Lyle vanished without a trace
after finishing her shift at a campus area computer store.

(01:10:13):
A bright college sophomore with a passion for technology, Suzanne
was last seen stepping off a CDTA bus just a
short walk from her dorm at Sunny Albany. She never
made it back. In the days and years that followed,
few clues would emerge. A strange atm withdrawal, a secretive boyfriend,

(01:10:34):
and a family leapt with a series of questions but
very few answers. Her mother, Mary once said, you don't
stop being a parent when your child disappears. You become
an investigator, an advocate, and sometimes the only one still
searching what happened to Suzanne Lyle, who was watching her

(01:10:55):
and who might be protecting the truth? Join me as
I unravel the case about the young woman that Albany
has refused to forget. Bye, guys, Another page closed, But
the story isn't over for the families left behind. The
pain doesn't end when the headline's fade, And for the victims,

(01:11:17):
we owe them more than silence for our on solved cases.
If you have any information, please reach out to local
authorities or visit our show notes for links and resources.
Someone out there knows something, Maybe it's you. Thank you
for listening to the Book of the Dead. If this
story moved or spoke to you in some way, talk

(01:11:40):
about it, share it, keep their names alive. Until next time.
I'm Courtney Liso. Stay safe, stay curious, and stay vigilant,
and remember the dead may be gone, but their stories
will not be forgotten.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Many areas in