May 26, 2025 • 48 mins
After a successful career in blogging and screenwriting—selling projects to networks like ABC, NBC, and Netflix—Jessie Rosen found her voice in novel writing through a personal family belief: that rings carry the energy of everyone who's worn them before.
"The Heirloom," her breakout novel, explores what happens when a woman insists on knowing the complete history of her engagement ring before accepting it. Jessie reveals how this wasn't mere fictional invention but a deeply held family truth that sparked debate among her own friends when she refused heirloom jewelry for her own engagement.
Her newest release, "All the Signs," continues this exploration of how beliefs shape our lives, drawing from her real-life experiment of tracking down people with her exact birth chart "star twins" to test the validity of astrology.
The conversation reveals fascinating insights about her creative process, including how she plots extensively yet allows herself flexibility within that structure, and how morning hours are reserved for fresh writing while afternoons focus on structure and planning. For aspiring writers, Jessie emphasizes the importance of building a consistent body of work that publishers can trust, whether through blogs, newsletters, or social media.
Follow Jessie's journey through her books and her newest project, a Substack newsletter called "Bravery," where she connects with readers between book releases.
Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:09):
Welcome to the bookish hour with just your.
He first made waves in theblogging world with her site,
earning honors like times blogtop blog, forbes top 100 website
for women and a spot among thetop 10 websites for millennials.
From there she moved into filmand television, selling original
(00:31):
projects to major networksincluding ABC, nbc, warner
Brothers and even Netflix.
While she did release a YAthriller back in 2015, it was in
2023 that she made her powerfulreturn to writing with the
Heirloom, one of my top reads ofthe year so far.
Her newest novel, all the Signs, just hit shelves earlier this
(00:52):
month and I'm dying to dive in.
Please welcome to the podcast.
Jessie Rosen.
Hi, oh, my gosh.
Jessie Rosen (01:00):
Welcome.
Thank you for that lovely intro.
It was very.
This is your life.
Jordan (01:06):
Yes, I did.
I might've done some researchto come up with the perfect
intro, and so I tried reallyhard and yeah.
Jessie Rosen (01:16):
I love it.
I am honored, so excited to behere and I'm so excited that you
found that Heirloom found itsway to you, that you found your
way to it, so we're going tohave so much fun I can already
tell oh, I'm so excited, I'm soexcited.
Jordan (01:29):
I actually I brought I'm holding the Heirloom.
I brought it with me Well,granted, I'm in my house, so
it's been here but I made sureto have it with me during this
interview because I feel like Ineed it.
I need it.
Jessie Rosen (01:42):
I mean, I have a copy here too.
Look, it's just on my desk too.
Jordan (01:46):
Perfect, okay, so I do like to start off every episode
with something good that'shappened to you this week.
Do you have anything that youwant to share?
It could be something that youdid, something that happened,
anything.
Jessie Rosen (01:58):
Yeah, this week has been special and you're
actually a part of it.
So this is the week that I amrecording all the podcasts,
guesting on all the podcasts toget ready for all the signs.
So I've had oh my gosh 10 thisweek, which is such a treat and
such an honor to get to haveconversations with many of my
favorite podcasts, people I'mjust meeting, people I've been
(02:19):
listening to for a long time.
So I would say that's a big onefor me and just kind of
enjoying it.
Jordan (02:26):
Oh, that's so exciting.
I'm so happy we're gonna likebe on like the, my podcast too,
Like that's.
So I'm like when, when we likewe're able to set this up.
I got so excited because I waslike yes, it's gonna be great.
Okay, so I have the three, three.
I have like three groups ofquestions like writing, reading,
(02:47):
personal, and so we'll startwith writing.
Um, the first question Inoticed that you first started
in tv and film and then youwrote your books, kind of not
counting the ya thriller.
Um, can you tell us about yourjourney from screenwriting to
writing a novel?
Is writing for a TV show andfilm same or different than
(03:10):
writing from a book?
Writing a book, and how so?
Jessie Rosen (03:15):
Yeah.
So the transition was kind oflet me say this the dream of
writing a book was always withme.
I am a forever reader.
I was a dreamer of this goalfrom a really young age.
Film and TV kind of came to mebecause it was the style of
writing that was really fun forme at the time, like you
mentioned, I had started with ablog and I met people through
(03:36):
that blog that were in thetheater writing world.
So I actually was doing playseven before film and TV.
But I love film and TV and sothis opportunity to write in
that format and that style, whenthat started to kind of
percolate for me, I made a bigmove from the East Coast.
I was raised in New Jersey.
At the time I was living in NewYork and I up and moved myself
to Los Angeles to kind of try myhand at that form of the
(03:59):
business selling originalscripts, working on different
people's projects, ultimatelybeing the head writer of a show
that you can actually watch onAmazon called the Baxters.
And I think that, if not forthe pandemic, I have to say that
was a big shutdown moment inLos Angeles.
All production came to a haltand so I had this time on my
(04:20):
hands, and I also had this sensethat the Heirloom had been an
idea that was with me for a longtime.
I had thought about it as afilm.
That was where I was working,that was where I was comfortable
, but something about thatalways wanted to be a book to me
.
I think it was a reallyprecious idea of mine, and I
think I wanted to have it andhold it and own it in a way that
(04:43):
you can with a book and youcan't necessarily with film and
TV, which kind of speaks to yourquestion about like what are
the differences, right?
So, first of all, quiteliterally, legally, one of the
differences is just ownership,like your ownership of the
intellectual property of a bookand, when you start working on a
book, your ownership of theprocess.
I think the other thing, too,though, is the space and time to
(05:07):
immerse in a story for much,much longer.
There's a time limit on TV.
There's a time limit on film.
You're always working in thoseparameters, including limits of
budget.
You know you turn a scene inand they're like yeah, that's
great, too expensive, we can'tshoot that scene.
So it's really interesting howyou have to consider all of that
when you're writing for filmand TV, when you're writing a
(05:27):
book, you get to do whatever youwant on the page.
You don't have to be thinkingabout any of those constraints.
So I was really excited to diveinto that, and that is what I
found to be both the beauty ofthe difference and also the
challenge.
Right?
It's literally a lot more pages, right?
No matter how you slice it, abook is so much more content.
So it was an uphill battle forme and I think that's where I've
(05:50):
continued to grow as a writeris making sure that I'm using
everything I learned in film andTV about like structure and
order and what makes a pageturner, but I am making sure
that my format is really fit fora book, describing things in
every detail, right?
You can't rely on a visual.
They're not going to bewatching this.
So those are the pieces of thepuzzle for me.
Jordan (06:10):
Oh my God, wait, that's so cool.
I like I didn't think of it,but like I know too, like as I
was reading this, it like feltlike a movie, like I I feel like
it followed a movie, so whichis gonna?
So now I'm going, I'm gonna askmy questions out of order,
(06:31):
because we kind of were talkingabout it.
So if the heirloom and all thesigns were turned into TV shows
or a movie, who would you wantto play the two female main
characters, shay and Leah?
Jessie Rosen (06:38):
I have like a little bit of a cop out answer
just because I am so completelyobsessed with her.
I know your listeners may havealso just devoured the latest
season of the White Lotus.
Jordan (06:48):
Oh my gosh, I loved that .
Jessie Rosen (06:50):
I think Amy Lou Wood, who played Chelsea on the
White Lotus, I think she can doanything.
I think she can play anyone.
So I'm picking her for bothheirloom and all the signs, just
because I want to see hertransform into every character I
can think of and I want her to.
I want to see her transforminto every character I can think
of and I love her so much.
So it feels like anunconventional answer and she
may not be a fit for both roles,but see, that's wrong.
(07:12):
She's a fit for everything,because that is just how
talented Amy Lewood is.
Jordan (07:16):
She, she.
I loved her.
That was the first time I'veseen her as Chelsea or I've.
The first time I've seen her inlike film was as Chelsea and I
just I loved that character andI really liked her.
Like I was starting to see allthese interviews with her and I
think she's just like all arounda really sweet and nice person
(07:37):
too.
And I like can't and you know,because I feel like especially
like HBO and like the WhiteLotus 2, like she is going to
like go places now, and I hopeso, because I want to see her in
more things, like I think shewill kill it in more things.
Yes, I'm speaking it.
Jessie Rosen (07:54):
Look, I'm speaking it into the universe.
I said it here on this podcast.
Amy Lou Wood for all the roles.
Jordan (08:00):
Just all of them, so we'll go back to the in order.
What does the typical writingday look like for you?
Jessie Rosen (08:09):
It depends where I am in the process.
So I'll give you like anexample of when I'm in the
middle of like hard work on abook, and I'll take all the
signs as an example.
I kind of split my work intotwo different types of sessions
and I find that my brain is theleast fried in the morning, and
so the morning is usuallyreserved for drafting, writing,
(08:30):
like literal sitting down,writing chapters, you know, that
kind of actual work.
And then the afternoon, so I'llkind of like wake up, do a
little movement, walk the dog,have a little breakfast and then
pretty quickly get to work.
I'm an early riser when I'mworking on something intently,
mostly because, again, I feellike I'm almost trying to like
sneak into the day before itactually gets to me, like I'm
(08:52):
like keep the day away and thenI'll get my work done and then
the day can start.
So I'm kind of like trying toget in into the room before
anyone else gets in there, youknow, and then I'll have lunch,
I'll relax a little bit, answeremails, you know, and then I'll
have lunch, I'll relax a littlebit, answer emails, handle
social media stuff, and in theafternoon I usually have a
session spent like how's thatoutline doing?
Is it laddering up to what I'mwriting?
(09:13):
Do I need to make adjustments?
Where are my note cards?
How is this kind of working interms of the grid that I built
for the book?
So I'm kind of doing work ofthe book, but it's not the
writing work, it's more thestructure, checking out of my
outline, looking at all thepieces of the puzzle of getting
ready to write what's next, ifthat makes sense.
Jordan (09:33):
Oh, so then, because you're you mentioned like an
outline and like the structure,so would you say you're more of
a plotter than a pantser, orwould you say you're both one?
Jessie Rosen (09:42):
of the other.
I'm a plotter, for sure, and alot of that comes from to answer
.
Go back to kind of answeringyour other question.
In film and TV you owe anoutline as a step of your
contract.
You have to deliver an outlineto the studio or to the network
or to the producer that you'reworking with.
So I am so in the rhythm ofbeing prepared with that outline
stage or that outline step thatI've done that with both books.
(10:05):
Now have I exactly followed theoutline?
No way.
This makes no sense to me howyou can write an outline that
makes perfect sense on paper.
Then you go to write the bookand you're like why isn't this
outline working?
It's right there, it's overhere.
So it's interesting because Iconstantly have to kind of like
be looking at the outline,having the plot and then like
sometimes pantsing my waythrough changes to the plot.
(10:26):
But I will say I am alwaysgoing back to that map and
revising the map.
I think it's actually a part ofhow I like soothe myself and
the anxiety that comes withwriting.
I think it's more managing thatI feel like I know where I'm
going, even if I change mycourse.
I think the outline is servingthat purpose for me.
Jordan (10:43):
I know where I'm going, even if I change my course.
I think the outline is servingthat purpose for me.
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
So what is more surprising?
Wait, what is the mostsurprising part of being a
published author?
I can't, I clearly can't write.
I can't read my own questions.
I'm so sorry.
Jessie Rosen (11:02):
No, I think the most surprising part about being
an author.
You know, as a reader, you'renot as attuned to the way that
the book-loving community showsup for authors.
You're a book lover yourself.
You're watching, you're areader, you're picking up books,
but you're not watching thecontent that people are creating
(11:22):
, the podcasts that they host.
The way that people effort tosupport and love your book is
old me over and I've just beenso touched by it because you
don't.
I haven't experienced that inthe other formats and genres
that I've written in.
I think that book lovers are aspecial breed.
I know we are, and I think thatit is so lovely and touching
(11:48):
the way that they take time outof their own schedule and their
own lives to make my careerpossible.
Right, it goes above and beyondpeople just reading.
This is the people who aresharing your book, making art to
put on Instagram, hosting anentire podcast.
It's really been overwhelmingin the most positive way for me
(12:08):
and I just I wasn't expecting it.
Jordan (12:11):
Oh, I guess I never really thought of it from like
that side, because it's like Iknow for myself, I just like
want to talk about books.
So it's like that's my thing,is I just I want to talk about
books and that's all I want todo.
But I guess I never thoughtlike from like the author side,
like how that can be for youguys.
Jessie Rosen (12:31):
Yes, I mean you're the reader.
Community is like a tiny miniarmy of marketers for me.
Yeah, so it's, it's so, solovely.
And when people connect withthe book, I mean obviously we
write so that we can delightpeople and offer something and
so that you take something away,but you forget that then you
get a human to human connection.
It's not just a book to readerconnection, right, it's like a
(12:54):
human to human connection,because there's so much
opportunity now.
I think that's the good part ofsocial media for us to connect
directly, like we are theliteral, perfect example of that
.
Jordan (13:05):
We, yes, yes, we are Okay.
So what advice do you have foraspiring authors and authors
like that want to betraditionally published, like
you are?
Jessie Rosen (13:17):
Yeah, this is so hard and I want to say that I
have gone a traditionalpublishing route, but I have a
lot of respect for people thatself-publish, and especially
people that self-publish andthen find their way to trad and
then back and forth it can go.
My advice is kind of the samewhether you want to be a
published author, or whether youwant to be a television writer,
or whether you want to be apoet, share your writing.
(13:39):
Write often.
That's a given.
Find any opportunity to shareyour writing with the community.
A, to learn how to receivefeedback and notes and that
experience.
But B.
I think that building a body ofwork to be known and therefore
trusted as someone that could bepublished can sometimes take
(14:00):
more than just one manuscript.
So that can look like so manythings these days.
Right, that can look like a substack, right, a free way to get
your writing in the white.
That can look like having anInstagram where the comments you
write are actually like reallybeautiful pieces of examples of
your writing.
Like poetry comes to mind interms of people that post those
kinds of things on Instagram.
(14:20):
So I think that nowadaysespecially, I think publishers
are looking to see can I trustthat this person is a person
that we can stick with formultiple books.
You know they're buying onebook, but they're thinking of
you as a writer that is going tohave a lot of material in you,
and so having that body of workeven if you're just posting your
(14:41):
work on your own website itactually really makes a
difference.
So that's my recommendationAlways share your work as often
and quickly as possible.
Jordan (14:53):
That I like that a lot.
Um, okay, so I'm dying for thisquestion, to know the answer.
Um, what inspired the plots forthe heirloom and all the signs?
Because I know, I think Ibelieve I saw somewhere I was
gonna put that in here, but thenI got nervous that I didn't see
it like.
Like they're.
They're not the same, butthey're like, similar in a way.
(15:14):
Yes, I call them.
Jessie Rosen (15:16):
I'm thinking of them as my eyebrow books.
You know how your eyebrows aresisters, not twins, okay, and
the answer for what inspiredthem is the same for both, and
the answer is me and my life.
You know, I think that so manyof us are writing from pieces of
experience, and that is thecase for both of these books.
(15:36):
So I'll start with Heirloom,which is inspired by my own
family.
Superstition about the idea thatrings and therefore big time
when it comes to engagementrings hold the karma, hold the
energy from anyone that's everworn them Like this isn't even a
superstition to my family, it'sa fact, it's something we
believe.
And so, of course, when it wastime for me to get engaged, this
(15:57):
was the one rule or the onerequest.
No, it was a demand that I hadfor my then boyfriend no
heirlooms, I won't accept it.
And it prompted a ton of debate.
It prompted a ton of debatewith the women in my life.
People were like that'sridiculous, you're being
ridiculous.
Other people were like you lovevintage things, you love
vintage furniture.
(16:18):
Look at your house.
Suddenly, a ring isdisqualified.
So all that conversationplanted the seed for the idea,
for the story, and I thoughtwhat if someone gets proposed to
.
What if they insist on knowingthe energy of the ring?
Well, how would you know it?
You'd have to know everyonethat ever wore it.
And so that became the storythat I wanted to tell, and
(16:38):
weaving it through differentplaces that I wanted to journey
was kind of.
That was all the fiction, butthe seed of the idea was this
real thing that I really believe.
That prompted conversation inmy life, and kind of the same
thing goes for all the science,which is about a character that
does something that I also setout to do.
This is a skeptical character,leah Lockhart.
She is skeptical aboutastrology, of all things,
(17:01):
something that's like totally inthe zeitgeist and everyone's
kind of obsessed with it, andshe wants to prove that
astrology is bogus.
And so she sets out to findpeople with her exact same birth
chart.
She calls them her star twinsto kind of see, do we have any
similarities?
Like?
Her premise is no, I did that.
I went out in search of my startwins.
I found several of them.
(17:22):
I interviewed them.
So this was part of a project,like a little mission I had for
myself when I was trying tofigure out aspects of my own
life, and it felt like such arich journey that I decided to
instead turn it into afictionalized story instead of
writing, say, a memoir or aseries of essays about it.
I felt like it was just.
There was too much to play with.
(17:43):
It needed to be a novel, and sothat was the inspo.
So these books, they'reautofiction, and they're not
right Because they have elementsof autobiography, but all the
characters and the places andeverything that comes after that
is fictionalized.
Jordan (17:57):
Okay.
So, like I want to say too,with the heirloom, I naturally
gravitated towards it because ofthe blurb and then, as I was
reading it, I related to Shay,like I relate to you.
I don't think I ever consideredheirloom like rings, but I
think that's just because, like,I never considered that.
But so a little like insidething with my, my mom is she
(18:25):
actually?
She got married years ago butthey, they got divorced and I
got proposed to actually back in2023.
And my mom's, like you couldwear my, my wedding dress.
And I was like, actually backin 2023.
And my mom's, like you couldwear my wedding dress.
And I was like, absolutely not,mom, you are divorced.
No way would I ever step anyfoot near that dress.
And she's like, well, you couldcut it up and put some of it.
And I was like, no, no, no, thebad energy from I want nothing
to do with your wedding at all.
(18:47):
No, none of that energy, noneof that.
But I believe that I believelike the energy from that and I
mean you guys aren't eventogether anymore.
So like, why would I?
Jessie Rosen (18:59):
I don't want that.
I completely relate.
How did you feel after you readthe book?
Were you kind of like causewithout giving anything away?
Actually, this book has beenout for a year.
Maybe we can give some thingsaway.
Jordan (19:18):
I give her like props.
I loved the ending and Iactually really loved I got.
Okay, I'm really trying not togive anything away.
Jessie Rosen (19:23):
I okay, I think you can I think the statute of
limits on spoilers is over, Isay go, go and I am literally in
charge.
Jordan (19:31):
That is true and it's like also here spoiler warning
skip ahead if you don't wantspoilers.
So when she meets that otherguy, I already I'm so bad I
forgot his name.
Like I forget names.
Jessie Rosen (19:42):
I'm totally fine.
Jordan (19:44):
So she meets that other guy, graham, and I was rooting
for them Because I thought theylike I don't know, like I
thought they were connecting andmaybe because like her and her
fiance like weren't doing sowell, I was like yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And then like they kiss and I'mlike yeah, and, and then she
was, she was like oh, no, no.
And then I was like towards theend, like when she's staying
(20:07):
with her friends and I didn't,she doesn't know what, which one
to choose.
I was like, oh, I don't knowwhich one I would choose.
And then I actually really likedthat she ended up with her
fiance.
I thought, I don't know, like I, I really I love the ending you
picked for it and I was sohappy to hear that.
And I, like I know too, because, like I I don't know if you
(20:30):
like remember my story because Istarted reading it and then I
switched to the audio bookbecause I had to work the next
day but then at the end of theworkday I was back home, so then
I switched back to reading itand I don't know, Like, I think
I do really enjoy the narrator.
So anybody that wants to listento the audio highly recommend.
Jessie Rosen (20:48):
Great, great.
Enjoy the narrator, so anybodythat wants to listen to the
audio.
Jordan (20:49):
Highly recommend Great, great, great great.
I think I don't know.
I'm really glad I like finishedwhile reading it, though not
listening Because.
I think that was likeespecially that whole ending.
Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Rosen (21:03):
It's different.
It's different to encounter iton the page, and I'll say I get
this question a lot right.
Did I always know it was goingto be John in the end?
And the answer is absolutelyyes.
I always knew that, and one ofthe reasons for that is because
I think a lot of people writebeautiful stories about a woman
who doesn't know herself, and soshe goes on a journey and she
(21:23):
figures herself out and then shemeets the right partner.
So it wasn't with the rightperson before because she didn't
know herself.
I wanted to write a story abouta woman that didn't trust
herself, so something within herknew and it had navigated to
John and John was the right guy,but she didn't have a
relationship of trust withherself.
So this new person thatpresents is kind of like oh my
(21:46):
gosh, wait a minute, is thisreally showing me what I'm
supposed to be?
And her journey is aboutlearning to trust herself and to
understand that she had the wayto navigate to the right thing.
So I feel like those are twosuch distinct things.
And with the version that I waslooking to tell, she could
never end up with Graham,because it was never about the
idea of newness, it was aboutthe idea of what was inside her
(22:09):
that she didn't have access to.
Jordan (22:10):
Oh, my goodness, I never even considered that, but it
makes sense.
But I think you're right I doread all these stories that
they're romances where they'renot with their person and it's a
romance where I think this is alove story.
So it is messy and it is it'slife, and I think that's what I
(22:33):
also really enjoyed.
I like that.
You two, you also put themystery in there.
I mean, they go to Italy.
I'm like I'm sitting in theoffice in a cubicle and I'm like
, no, I'm in Italy right now,like I'm living life.
Jessie Rosen (22:45):
Me too, me too writing it because I wrote this
during the pandemic we werestill in the throes of not being
able to travel, and so thesedestinations were like total joy
for me, transportive, taking meout of that awful place that we
were all in and taking mesomewhere else.
So, yeah, and I also soappreciate you saying there is
romance in this book, but no,it's structurally not a romance
(23:07):
at all and it's structurally noteven a rom-com.
And I do feel like, while thereare relationships that are core
in love relationships orromantic relationships, this is
really a book about a woman andherself and it really is about
that dynamic of the relationshipbetween this person and her
insides and her heart.
And then how is that going tomake the other love stories in
(23:30):
her life, whether it's with herfiance or with her sister or
with, you know, the mother thatshe lost, like?
It's really about her heartchanging to allow for all of
those relationships to improve.
Jordan (23:43):
Yeah, and I two notes too, because I also really
enjoyed with the relationshipwith her mom and how she
wouldn't let her tell her thatlast she wouldn't let her talk
about like the ring and stufflike that.
I actually really enjoyed thatyou wrote it that way and the
fact that she was like now wecan never know Like you messed
(24:05):
up in a way and I think likethey were able to accept that.
But I feel like a lot of things, a lot of stories are written
so everything can be solved, butthat's not life and it's not
real, and so I really like Ialso.
And then one more thing Ireally like to that you put in
with the ring and it being likewell, you can create energy,
(24:26):
like you make it like a positiveenergy, and I guess I never
considered that myself and I waslike not that I would ever take
my mom's wedding dress, but Ido think like you can change
like the energy of something,and I think that is really cool.
So it's like reading this bookand it's like I learned
something too and I really,really liked this book.
Jessie Rosen (24:50):
I like I'm so, so glad and I'll tell you that idea
of the fact that the way thatit goes in the book, that I
think the line in the book mightactually be like the woman
wears the ring, which suggeststhat.
Like it's not about therelationship, it's not about the
other partner, it's about thewoman that is holding this thing
and deciding what it means.
And that's what it was for forShea's mother.
Until I had that line, likeuntil I had that concept, I
(25:13):
couldn't figure out how to writethe book, because I certainly
wasn't going to put somethingout in the world that suggested
that any person that has avintage item is damned or made
the wrong decision.
You know, I really needed to becareful about suggesting that,
no matter what situation you'rein, that can be beauty and
strength and your path can befine going forward.
So I'll never forget it.
(25:33):
Like TMI, I was in the showerand I was thinking about writing
this book.
I was like it's really time, Ireally have the time now, I
should really do it, but like Idon't have a way out of this box
that I'm in.
And I was in the shower and Iliterally said to myself oh, oh
(25:55):
my gosh, that is so cool.
Jordan (25:58):
It's like it's so cool, but it's.
I mean, you're right, you'retotally right, but wow, yeah,
yeah, it's just how it happened.
Okay, so this is the lastquestion in writing, but do you
have any future projects you'reworking on that you can give us
any hints about?
Jessie Rosen (26:22):
any hints about.
Yes, I am starting to writechapters on what I really hope
will be a third book and I needto get them down to make sure,
kind of.
I know the tone of this one isgoing to be different, but I'm
playing with writing it from thethird person versus the first
person, so I just want to seehow that feels and get that down
and then kind of all knowexactly what I'm pitching to my
editor.
And here's what I'll say.
It involves travel.
(26:44):
Of course we cannot have a bookwithout it.
It involves ons of a family andhow they're changing because of
a very big decision by one ofthe family members, and I feel
like those are such themes thatare inside both of the books so
far right About like who we areas people and what we need to do
(27:06):
for ourselves, what impact thathas on everyone else and how
that helps us all grow, movingforward, even if the growing
pains are very tricky and verysticky.
So that's that's where I'm atvery tricky and very sticky.
Jordan (27:18):
So that's where I'm at.
Ooh, I'm so excited.
Oh, my gosh, okay, okay.
So now we'll dive into readingwhat is your favorite book and
or series, a book you wouldrecommend to anyone and everyone
.
Jessie Rosen (27:33):
Well, I'm going to recommend something that is the
thing I go back to for a numberof reasons, inspiring my own
writing, and that I just thinkis an incredible book.
And it's an older book.
It's the Secret History byDonna Tartt, a real classic.
And one of the reasons that Ilove this book is because it
pairs something that I'm alwaystrying to do in my writing,
which is thought turning, pageturning action and true deep
(27:57):
emotional character development,and I think that's really,
really hard to do.
So I always go back to thesecret history.
It has mystery, it has, you know, multiple narratives, it has
characters that are changing andgrowing, like I try to infuse
my writing with, and it does itin a way that doesn't feel like
a thriller.
Even though there's thrill,it's not a mystery.
(28:19):
Even though there's mystery,it's not a romance.
Even though there's romanticelements.
It just defies the genre anddelivers you a really good story
.
And I always think of DonnaTartt when I'm writing, because
I think, like no quiet, thenoise about genre, write the
story that needs to be told,it'll find its way, and I think
she did a really good job ofthat.
(28:39):
So I recommend it to writers alot as an example, but obviously
for readers it's such a goodone.
Jordan (28:45):
I have to say, like I've heard like a lot of people have
recommended that book and Ilike want to read it and I know
I will.
I just haven't yet, but like Iwant to, like, I've heard
amazing things On that.
Forever TBR, it really is Okay.
So what is one line of writing,poetry or a quote that lives in
(29:05):
your head?
Rent free.
Jessie Rosen (29:09):
The first thing that comes to mind is something
that is a poem.
But the reason I know it thisis so me right, like the reason
I know it is because of a movie,because I'm such a film and TV
lover, and it is that quote thatlisteners may know from Willy
Wonka, which is we are the musicmakers and we are the dreamers
of dreams.
Willy Wonka says it in themovie, but it's actually an
(29:31):
Arthur O'Shaughnessy poem andthe poem is called Ode.
But you know, there's somethingso beautiful about I think I
love it because it's about thislike ownership of, like I'm a
creator.
You know, I make, I dream, I dothose things and I I'm.
I really identify with that.
(29:52):
It really inspires me to havethat as something that's core to
my soul.
It's like something I'm reallyproud of about myself.
So I think that's why it alwayscomes to mind.
Jordan (30:02):
I do really like that quote, but I don't.
Is that okay?
I have to ask is that the WillyWonka like the first one, or is
that the more recent movie it's?
Jessie Rosen (30:12):
definitely in the first one.
It's definitely in the old GeneWilder version, which is the
one that I grew up with.
I don't know if it's in the whois it Johnny Depp?
I don't know if it's in theJohnny Depp version or the
Timothee Chalamet version, butoh I didn't even think of that
one.
Jordan (30:27):
I know, I know I only I grew up with the like the older
one, like the Willy Wonka onetoo, but I haven't seen it in so
long that I don't remember thatquote.
But I feel like now I need togo watch it.
Jessie Rosen (30:38):
He just it's.
You know, that movie has like alot of kind of interesting.
Like that character kind oflike says things off the cuff
and he says it in the movie in areally powerful moment.
So, yeah, I can't wait for youto go back and watch it.
Jordan (30:50):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Okay, so the last one forreading is if you could have a
literary dinner party with threeauthors, living or dead who
would you invite and why?
Jessie Rosen (31:01):
I have my three, but I haven't considered I like
kind of forgot that we would allbe at dinner together.
So I was just like, okay, theseare the three people I want to
talk to.
But then I didn't consider whatwhat this will be like as a
dinner party dynamic.
But I'm saying my three.
Jordan (31:15):
I think they're going to get along.
Jessie Rosen (31:16):
I'm going to think they're going to get along
because I like them all and Ithink they're going to get along
.
I think they're going to getalong because I like them all
and I think it'll be aninteresting conversation.
Okay, so I mean I have to haveLouisa May Alcott, because
Little Women is Bible to me andI am one of four girls and so
her writing about her sisters, Ijust she's got to be there.
I have so many questions forher.
So my number one is Louisa MayAlcott.
(31:38):
My number two is also someonewho's no longer with us.
It's the incredible poet, maryOliver, and I love her poems and
I just she sees the world indark and light in a really
beautiful way, and she's alwaysable to kind of cut through the
darkness and offer levity, andit's something I aspire to in
(32:01):
myself.
So when I'm caught between thetwo, I go to her poems and I
just think she and Louisa wouldget along.
So I think that that's going towork out.
Also, they're both ghosts, sothey'll have that to talk about.
And then my third person who isvery much living is the author
Kevin Wilson.
I feel like this may sound likea strange pick, but Kevin
Wilson wrote this absolutelyincredible book.
(32:22):
It's called Nothing to See hereand it is about a woman who
ends up being the nanny forchildren that spontaneously set
fire, like fire comes fromwithin them.
It's a wild premise.
It's one of my favorite readsof all time, even though it's a
recent read.
It was probably published fouror five of all time, even though
it's a recent read, probablypublished four or five years ago
(32:42):
, and since then I've readeverything that Kevin Wilson
writes.
All of his books had thesereally interesting, bizarre,
very creative setups, these hugehooks, and I'm so fascinated by
them and fascinated by him.
So I have to talk to him andI'm not entirely sure how he's
going to get along with Mary andwill be up.
I think it's going to be finebecause I know that he'll have
(33:02):
deeper spec for them.
So I think it's going to workout.
And those are my three.
Jordan (33:07):
Yeah, no, it would be perfect and I think that would
be.
I want to sit in that on thatdinner party Like I want to hear
those answers.
Jessie Rosen (33:16):
Totally.
Jordan (33:18):
Okay, so we're at the last part, which is personal,
and there's two questions.
So the first one is what is afun fact about you that your
readers or listeners might besurprised to learn?
Jessie Rosen (33:29):
I know, I've really struggled with this
because I feel like I'm to acertain degree, I'm like really
an open book.
So I'm going to say this I am amassive scaredy cat.
I'm really scared when it comesto, like huge example, horror
films.
Like I don't go to them.
I don't think that'sentertaining, right?
(33:50):
I'm this big scaredy cat whenit comes to things like that.
Except as a reader, I'm likereally drawn to thriller.
So it's so interesting to methat something about, like, if I
can control it by reading it onthe page and I read a ton of
thriller, there's somethingdifferent than me watching it.
Like, again, I read all StephenKing and don't see any of the
(34:13):
movies.
So I don't know, I don't knowwhat that disconnect is for me,
the difference between readingit I can read Stephen King in
bed at 11 o'clock when myhusband's not home, like no
problem, I'm not afraid.
And yet I will never see, forexample, the movie it, and
certainly not in theaters, myGod, but I don't even think at
my own home.
(34:33):
So I feel like this is a weirdthing about me.
It may even be weird to saythat I read a lot of thriller,
but even weirder is the factthat I can do that and I cannot
watch scary movies Interesting,I like that.
Jordan (34:46):
Well, okay, so I'm going to insert another question what
is your favorite thriller ofall time?
I'm guessing a Stephen King one.
Jessie Rosen (34:56):
I mean, I think it's to be honest with you, the
first book that was, I would say, thriller that I read and was
so wowed by that it like crackedeverything open for me and I
started reading more thrillerwas Carrie, which is like the
pinnacle of the original, and soI really I have to point to
that just because I think it, Inever would have read thriller
at all, and the only reason Iread Carrie is because I read
Stephen King's great book onwriting.
As I was approaching you know,I was younger in my writing
(35:19):
career and I was just inspiredby his process and everyone says
that's one of the great tomesof writing advice is that book.
And so after reading that bookand he talks so much about
developing Carrie and about thatbook I was like, well, I have
to now start reading actualStephen King.
And that's how it started.
Jordan (35:36):
Wait, is this also why you wrote that YA thriller?
Jessie Rosen (35:44):
started.
Wait, is this also why youwrote that YA thriller?
Yes and no.
Yes, because I felt comfortableenough being like, oh, I have
read a bunch of thriller, Icould weave this story, I could
figure this out.
Yeah, and the other answer tothat question is that started as
a television pitch.
So my TV manager thought itcould be a fun hook for
something like the CW at thetime when the CW was kind of
still in its big heyday, and sowe created a television pitch
(36:06):
and then ultimately, when itdidn't sell as a TV pitch, I was
really encouraged to try towrite it as a novel, and I owe
so much to the people that havebeen part of my whole writing
journey who have seen andbelieved what I was capable of
before I was able to see it andit pushed me in that direction.
So, yes, I had a knowledge ofthriller and I liked thriller,
(36:27):
but it was really because of thesuggestion of my amazing
manager, rachel Miller.
And another fun fact I did thatbook with at an agency that was
called Foundry, with an agentnamed Molly Glick, and years
later Molly Glick moved to CAA,my current agency, and I got to
work with her again on Heirloomand All the Signs, and so it's
(36:49):
so interesting, right?
Perhaps this whole story aboutenjoying thrillers is I owe my
whole career to it.
I'm not sure.
Jordan (36:57):
Oh, my wait, that's so cool and like, and I think that
just shows you it's also like asign that like it is meant to be
.
It is.
It's meant to be yes.
Okay, so we're on the lastquestion.
So sad.
What is one future goal thatyou would like to achieve,
either long term or short term,and it could be in writing,
(37:18):
anything bookish or personal too.
Jessie Rosen (37:21):
Yeah, I think I would be so sad if my writing
career ended without me writingsomething about the writing
process.
I do coaching of writers.
I've offered workshops onwriting.
I really love the craft ofwriting and I think, more
importantly, I love turningpeople that don't think they're
(37:41):
writers into writers.
There's something reallymagical about that to me.
I have this theory that thefastest way to change your life
is to write a book, and so I'malways kind of thinking about
what I could offer as I getfurther along in my career and
as I truly feel like I have areal knowledge of the form.
It's so funny, right?
(38:02):
I've been at this for almost 20years and yet I still feel like
, no, no, I have to.
I have to make sure I reallyhave the right things to say
before I create something likethat, whether it's a book or
otherwise.
But it's a big dream to be ableto like leave this world and
leave that behind so that otherwriters may feel some calm or
some peace or some tips andtricks because of what I learned
(38:25):
oh okay, that that's actuallyreally cool.
Jordan (38:30):
Now I will expect to see that at some point.
I love it also.
Jessie Rosen (38:35):
I should just say, like everything has been so
like writerly and heady andthoughtful and readily I I mean,
another goal of mine is to justbe a better cook.
So there there's something Iwant to offer, something simple
as well as well.
Jordan (38:49):
I like that.
I like that too.
Granted, I like I.
I want to be able to cook, butit's not that I want to be able
to cook.
I wish I just liked cooking.
Jessie Rosen (38:59):
I'm I don't like to cook, I'm so glad you said
that I think that's the categoryI'm into, like I can cook, it's
not, you know, I just want tolike it.
I think that's what I'm saying.
Jordan (39:08):
I like yeah, exactly like I don't, because I I for
the longest time like ever sinceI was in high school, I'd just
be like it.
I think that's what I'm saying.
I like, yeah, exactly Like Idon't, cause I I, for the
longest time like ever since Iwas in high school, I'd just be
like, oh, like, when I get myown place, I'll cook.
And then it's like I moved inwith roommates and then I was
like, no, when I have my own ownplace.
And then I moved in with, like,my boyfriend at the time, and
then I was like, oh, thenquarantine and COVID and all
(39:30):
that happened and I'm like, oh,yeah, now I'll cook.
And I'm like, no, I still amnot cooking Like I.
So I'm like I realized I just Idon't, I don't like it and I
wish I liked it.
Jessie Rosen (39:40):
You know, hearing you say this, I'm like I support
us, not liking it.
I'm canceling my thing.
I want to learn.
I don't want to do it.
You're right, I don't.
I don't want to do it.
I just want to want to do itbecause I think that's good.
Wow, this has been reallytherapeutic.
Thank you so much.
Jordan (39:58):
You're so welcome.
I mean, does your husband liketo cook at least?
Jessie Rosen (40:04):
He loves it.
Oh see, we're fine, we're fine,it is what we're fine.
Jordan (40:10):
We're fine, you, he, he's starting, mine is starting
to kind of like it.
He's like I'm really enjoyingit.
I'm like perfect, you cook,I'll do the dishes and we're
golden.
Jessie Rosen (40:21):
Yeah, I mean, it truly is golden over here.
I'm living that life and so Idon't know why I'm looking to
upset the apple cart.
I think you're right.
I think this is very muchprobably internalized about how
a woman is supposed to be in amarriage.
I think this is evidence of ourculture, and you know what I'm
rejecting it.
I take it back.
Rewind the tape.
Jordan (40:41):
You're going to work on that book for writers.
That's exactly right, andnothing else.
Nothing, just that.
Well, also all fiction bookstoo, like I want you to work on
that other project and like Okaygood, okay good.
Jessie Rosen (40:54):
Yeah, don't forget those.
Don't forget those.
At least I don't have time tocook and that's it.
Jordan (40:59):
Yeah, exactly, your time's taken up.
Sorry, there's only so muchtime in the day and you're busy.
I want to give you the floor.
Is there anything you want tolike, plug or like your website?
Jessie Rosen (41:12):
I also put things in the show notes too, so yeah,
no, I'm so grateful for thesupport and the love.
You know all the signs of mysecond novel is out now and I do
.
I'm so excited to hear how thisnovel makes people think about
what they want in their livesand what journeys they may want
to go on.
So I'm really excited to hearfrom readers about that.
(41:33):
And just the other thing I'mexcited about is I recently
started a Substack, so it'sbraverybyjessierosensubstackcom
and it's given me a chance to.
You know, books take such along time to get together and to
write and to publish and I wasmissing that more regular
interaction with people aroundideas that are important to me,
so hence the sub stack.
(41:53):
So I feel like that's thein-between of the books.
Not fiction, it's nonfiction,it's almost like memoir about my
life, but it is this coolopportunity to connect with
people in between the books.
Jordan (42:03):
Oh my gosh, Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
I had so much fun chatting withyou and thank you.
Jessie Rosen (42:10):
It was so fun, much fun, chatting with you and
thank you.
It was so fun, just like I knewit would be.
It's really nice to connectwith you and thank you.
Thank you because this allstarted, because you were so
sweet about the heirloom it's sogood it's.
Jordan (42:20):
I'm like, I'm actually so I think this it's like
another sign, like I reallytruly believe I.
I just I don't even.
I like saw it in my indiebookstore, like when I saw it
and I just I picked it up and itwas just like so random, like I
didn't see it anywhere, like Ididn't.
Jessie Rosen (42:38):
Yes.
Jordan (42:39):
That's like, it's just like so cool.
Jessie Rosen (42:42):
Yeah, yeah, wait, let's finish by shouting out
your indie bookstore, where youfound it no-transcript.
Jordan (47:36):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Please feel free to rate andreview us on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts or wherever you listen,and if there's any interviews
or conversations you would likeme to have with someone specific
, please reach out either emailor through our Instagram,
available in the show notes andhappy reading.
Welcome to the bookish hour with just your.
He first made waves in theblogging world with her site,
earning honors like times blogtop blog, forbes top 100 website
for women and a spot among thetop 10 websites for millennials.
From there she moved into filmand television, selling original
(00:31):
projects to major networksincluding ABC, nbc, warner
Brothers and even Netflix.
While she did release a YAthriller back in 2015, it was in
2023 that she made her powerfulreturn to writing with the
Heirloom, one of my top reads ofthe year so far.
Her newest novel, all the Signs, just hit shelves earlier this
(00:52):
month and I'm dying to dive in.
Please welcome to the podcast.
Jessie Rosen.
Hi, oh, my gosh.
Jessie Rosen (01:00):
Welcome.
Thank you for that lovely intro.
It was very.
This is your life.
Jordan (01:06):
Yes, I did.
I might've done some researchto come up with the perfect
intro, and so I tried reallyhard and yeah.
Jessie Rosen (01:16):
I love it.
I am honored, so excited to behere and I'm so excited that you
found that Heirloom found itsway to you, that you found your
way to it, so we're going tohave so much fun I can already
tell oh, I'm so excited, I'm soexcited.
Jordan (01:29):
I actually I brought I'm holding the Heirloom.
I brought it with me Well,granted, I'm in my house, so
it's been here but I made sureto have it with me during this
interview because I feel like Ineed it.
I need it.
Jessie Rosen (01:42):
I mean, I have a copy here too.
Look, it's just on my desk too.
Jordan (01:46):
Perfect, okay, so I do like to start off every episode
with something good that'shappened to you this week.
Do you have anything that youwant to share?
It could be something that youdid, something that happened,
anything.
Jessie Rosen (01:58):
Yeah, this week has been special and you're
actually a part of it.
So this is the week that I amrecording all the podcasts,
guesting on all the podcasts toget ready for all the signs.
So I've had oh my gosh 10 thisweek, which is such a treat and
such an honor to get to haveconversations with many of my
favorite podcasts, people I'mjust meeting, people I've been
(02:19):
listening to for a long time.
So I would say that's a big onefor me and just kind of
enjoying it.
Jordan (02:26):
Oh, that's so exciting.
I'm so happy we're gonna likebe on like the, my podcast too,
Like that's.
So I'm like when, when we likewe're able to set this up.
I got so excited because I waslike yes, it's gonna be great.
Okay, so I have the three, three.
I have like three groups ofquestions like writing, reading,
(02:47):
personal, and so we'll startwith writing.
Um, the first question Inoticed that you first started
in tv and film and then youwrote your books, kind of not
counting the ya thriller.
Um, can you tell us about yourjourney from screenwriting to
writing a novel?
Is writing for a TV show andfilm same or different than
(03:10):
writing from a book?
Writing a book, and how so?
Jessie Rosen (03:15):
Yeah.
So the transition was kind oflet me say this the dream of
writing a book was always withme.
I am a forever reader.
I was a dreamer of this goalfrom a really young age.
Film and TV kind of came to mebecause it was the style of
writing that was really fun forme at the time, like you
mentioned, I had started with ablog and I met people through
(03:36):
that blog that were in thetheater writing world.
So I actually was doing playseven before film and TV.
But I love film and TV and sothis opportunity to write in
that format and that style, whenthat started to kind of
percolate for me, I made a bigmove from the East Coast.
I was raised in New Jersey.
At the time I was living in NewYork and I up and moved myself
to Los Angeles to kind of try myhand at that form of the
(03:59):
business selling originalscripts, working on different
people's projects, ultimatelybeing the head writer of a show
that you can actually watch onAmazon called the Baxters.
And I think that, if not forthe pandemic, I have to say that
was a big shutdown moment inLos Angeles.
All production came to a haltand so I had this time on my
(04:20):
hands, and I also had this sensethat the Heirloom had been an
idea that was with me for a longtime.
I had thought about it as afilm.
That was where I was working,that was where I was comfortable
, but something about thatalways wanted to be a book to me
.
I think it was a reallyprecious idea of mine, and I
think I wanted to have it andhold it and own it in a way that
(04:43):
you can with a book and youcan't necessarily with film and
TV, which kind of speaks to yourquestion about like what are
the differences, right?
So, first of all, quiteliterally, legally, one of the
differences is just ownership,like your ownership of the
intellectual property of a bookand, when you start working on a
book, your ownership of theprocess.
I think the other thing, too,though, is the space and time to
(05:07):
immerse in a story for much,much longer.
There's a time limit on TV.
There's a time limit on film.
You're always working in thoseparameters, including limits of
budget.
You know you turn a scene inand they're like yeah, that's
great, too expensive, we can'tshoot that scene.
So it's really interesting howyou have to consider all of that
when you're writing for filmand TV, when you're writing a
(05:27):
book, you get to do whatever youwant on the page.
You don't have to be thinkingabout any of those constraints.
So I was really excited to diveinto that, and that is what I
found to be both the beauty ofthe difference and also the
challenge.
Right?
It's literally a lot more pages, right?
No matter how you slice it, abook is so much more content.
So it was an uphill battle forme and I think that's where I've
(05:50):
continued to grow as a writeris making sure that I'm using
everything I learned in film andTV about like structure and
order and what makes a pageturner, but I am making sure
that my format is really fit fora book, describing things in
every detail, right?
You can't rely on a visual.
They're not going to bewatching this.
So those are the pieces of thepuzzle for me.
Jordan (06:10):
Oh my God, wait, that's so cool.
I like I didn't think of it,but like I know too, like as I
was reading this, it like feltlike a movie, like I I feel like
it followed a movie, so whichis gonna?
So now I'm going, I'm gonna askmy questions out of order,
(06:31):
because we kind of were talkingabout it.
So if the heirloom and all thesigns were turned into TV shows
or a movie, who would you wantto play the two female main
characters, shay and Leah?
Jessie Rosen (06:38):
I have like a little bit of a cop out answer
just because I am so completelyobsessed with her.
I know your listeners may havealso just devoured the latest
season of the White Lotus.
Jordan (06:48):
Oh my gosh, I loved that .
Jessie Rosen (06:50):
I think Amy Lou Wood, who played Chelsea on the
White Lotus, I think she can doanything.
I think she can play anyone.
So I'm picking her for bothheirloom and all the signs, just
because I want to see hertransform into every character I
can think of and I want her to.
I want to see her transforminto every character I can think
of and I love her so much.
So it feels like anunconventional answer and she
may not be a fit for both roles,but see, that's wrong.
(07:12):
She's a fit for everything,because that is just how
talented Amy Lewood is.
Jordan (07:16):
She, she.
I loved her.
That was the first time I'veseen her as Chelsea or I've.
The first time I've seen her inlike film was as Chelsea and I
just I loved that character andI really liked her.
Like I was starting to see allthese interviews with her and I
think she's just like all arounda really sweet and nice person
(07:37):
too.
And I like can't and you know,because I feel like especially
like HBO and like the WhiteLotus 2, like she is going to
like go places now, and I hopeso, because I want to see her in
more things, like I think shewill kill it in more things.
Yes, I'm speaking it.
Jessie Rosen (07:54):
Look, I'm speaking it into the universe.
I said it here on this podcast.
Amy Lou Wood for all the roles.
Jordan (08:00):
Just all of them, so we'll go back to the in order.
What does the typical writingday look like for you?
Jessie Rosen (08:09):
It depends where I am in the process.
So I'll give you like anexample of when I'm in the
middle of like hard work on abook, and I'll take all the
signs as an example.
I kind of split my work intotwo different types of sessions
and I find that my brain is theleast fried in the morning, and
so the morning is usuallyreserved for drafting, writing,
(08:30):
like literal sitting down,writing chapters, you know, that
kind of actual work.
And then the afternoon, so I'llkind of like wake up, do a
little movement, walk the dog,have a little breakfast and then
pretty quickly get to work.
I'm an early riser when I'mworking on something intently,
mostly because, again, I feellike I'm almost trying to like
sneak into the day before itactually gets to me, like I'm
(08:52):
like keep the day away and thenI'll get my work done and then
the day can start.
So I'm kind of like trying toget in into the room before
anyone else gets in there, youknow, and then I'll have lunch,
I'll relax a little bit, answeremails, you know, and then I'll
have lunch, I'll relax a littlebit, answer emails, handle
social media stuff, and in theafternoon I usually have a
session spent like how's thatoutline doing?
Is it laddering up to what I'mwriting?
(09:13):
Do I need to make adjustments?
Where are my note cards?
How is this kind of working interms of the grid that I built
for the book?
So I'm kind of doing work ofthe book, but it's not the
writing work, it's more thestructure, checking out of my
outline, looking at all thepieces of the puzzle of getting
ready to write what's next, ifthat makes sense.
Jordan (09:33):
Oh, so then, because you're you mentioned like an
outline and like the structure,so would you say you're more of
a plotter than a pantser, orwould you say you're both one?
Jessie Rosen (09:42):
of the other.
I'm a plotter, for sure, and alot of that comes from to answer
.
Go back to kind of answeringyour other question.
In film and TV you owe anoutline as a step of your
contract.
You have to deliver an outlineto the studio or to the network
or to the producer that you'reworking with.
So I am so in the rhythm ofbeing prepared with that outline
stage or that outline step thatI've done that with both books.
(10:05):
Now have I exactly followed theoutline?
No way.
This makes no sense to me howyou can write an outline that
makes perfect sense on paper.
Then you go to write the bookand you're like why isn't this
outline working?
It's right there, it's overhere.
So it's interesting because Iconstantly have to kind of like
be looking at the outline,having the plot and then like
sometimes pantsing my waythrough changes to the plot.
(10:26):
But I will say I am alwaysgoing back to that map and
revising the map.
I think it's actually a part ofhow I like soothe myself and
the anxiety that comes withwriting.
I think it's more managing thatI feel like I know where I'm
going, even if I change mycourse.
I think the outline is servingthat purpose for me.
Jordan (10:43):
I know where I'm going, even if I change my course.
I think the outline is servingthat purpose for me.
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
So what is more surprising?
Wait, what is the mostsurprising part of being a
published author?
I can't, I clearly can't write.
I can't read my own questions.
I'm so sorry.
Jessie Rosen (11:02):
No, I think the most surprising part about being
an author.
You know, as a reader, you'renot as attuned to the way that
the book-loving community showsup for authors.
You're a book lover yourself.
You're watching, you're areader, you're picking up books,
but you're not watching thecontent that people are creating
(11:22):
, the podcasts that they host.
The way that people effort tosupport and love your book is
old me over and I've just beenso touched by it because you
don't.
I haven't experienced that inthe other formats and genres
that I've written in.
I think that book lovers are aspecial breed.
I know we are, and I think thatit is so lovely and touching
(11:48):
the way that they take time outof their own schedule and their
own lives to make my careerpossible.
Right, it goes above and beyondpeople just reading.
This is the people who aresharing your book, making art to
put on Instagram, hosting anentire podcast.
It's really been overwhelmingin the most positive way for me
(12:08):
and I just I wasn't expecting it.
Jordan (12:11):
Oh, I guess I never really thought of it from like
that side, because it's like Iknow for myself, I just like
want to talk about books.
So it's like that's my thing,is I just I want to talk about
books and that's all I want todo.
But I guess I never thoughtlike from like the author side,
like how that can be for youguys.
Jessie Rosen (12:31):
Yes, I mean you're the reader.
Community is like a tiny miniarmy of marketers for me.
Yeah, so it's, it's so, solovely.
And when people connect withthe book, I mean obviously we
write so that we can delightpeople and offer something and
so that you take something away,but you forget that then you
get a human to human connection.
It's not just a book to readerconnection, right, it's like a
(12:54):
human to human connection,because there's so much
opportunity now.
I think that's the good part ofsocial media for us to connect
directly, like we are theliteral, perfect example of that
.
Jordan (13:05):
We, yes, yes, we are Okay.
So what advice do you have foraspiring authors and authors
like that want to betraditionally published, like
you are?
Jessie Rosen (13:17):
Yeah, this is so hard and I want to say that I
have gone a traditionalpublishing route, but I have a
lot of respect for people thatself-publish, and especially
people that self-publish andthen find their way to trad and
then back and forth it can go.
My advice is kind of the samewhether you want to be a
published author, or whether youwant to be a television writer,
or whether you want to be apoet, share your writing.
(13:39):
Write often.
That's a given.
Find any opportunity to shareyour writing with the community.
A, to learn how to receivefeedback and notes and that
experience.
But B.
I think that building a body ofwork to be known and therefore
trusted as someone that could bepublished can sometimes take
(14:00):
more than just one manuscript.
So that can look like so manythings these days.
Right, that can look like a substack, right, a free way to get
your writing in the white.
That can look like having anInstagram where the comments you
write are actually like reallybeautiful pieces of examples of
your writing.
Like poetry comes to mind interms of people that post those
kinds of things on Instagram.
(14:20):
So I think that nowadaysespecially, I think publishers
are looking to see can I trustthat this person is a person
that we can stick with formultiple books.
You know they're buying onebook, but they're thinking of
you as a writer that is going tohave a lot of material in you,
and so having that body of workeven if you're just posting your
(14:41):
work on your own website itactually really makes a
difference.
So that's my recommendationAlways share your work as often
and quickly as possible.
Jordan (14:53):
That I like that a lot.
Um, okay, so I'm dying for thisquestion, to know the answer.
Um, what inspired the plots forthe heirloom and all the signs?
Because I know, I think Ibelieve I saw somewhere I was
gonna put that in here, but thenI got nervous that I didn't see
it like.
Like they're.
They're not the same, butthey're like, similar in a way.
(15:14):
Yes, I call them.
Jessie Rosen (15:16):
I'm thinking of them as my eyebrow books.
You know how your eyebrows aresisters, not twins, okay, and
the answer for what inspiredthem is the same for both, and
the answer is me and my life.
You know, I think that so manyof us are writing from pieces of
experience, and that is thecase for both of these books.
(15:36):
So I'll start with Heirloom,which is inspired by my own
family.
Superstition about the idea thatrings and therefore big time
when it comes to engagementrings hold the karma, hold the
energy from anyone that's everworn them Like this isn't even a
superstition to my family, it'sa fact, it's something we
believe.
And so, of course, when it wastime for me to get engaged, this
(15:57):
was the one rule or the onerequest.
No, it was a demand that I hadfor my then boyfriend no
heirlooms, I won't accept it.
And it prompted a ton of debate.
It prompted a ton of debatewith the women in my life.
People were like that'sridiculous, you're being
ridiculous.
Other people were like you lovevintage things, you love
vintage furniture.
(16:18):
Look at your house.
Suddenly, a ring isdisqualified.
So all that conversationplanted the seed for the idea,
for the story, and I thoughtwhat if someone gets proposed to
.
What if they insist on knowingthe energy of the ring?
Well, how would you know it?
You'd have to know everyonethat ever wore it.
And so that became the storythat I wanted to tell, and
(16:38):
weaving it through differentplaces that I wanted to journey
was kind of.
That was all the fiction, butthe seed of the idea was this
real thing that I really believe.
That prompted conversation inmy life, and kind of the same
thing goes for all the science,which is about a character that
does something that I also setout to do.
This is a skeptical character,leah Lockhart.
She is skeptical aboutastrology, of all things,
(17:01):
something that's like totally inthe zeitgeist and everyone's
kind of obsessed with it, andshe wants to prove that
astrology is bogus.
And so she sets out to findpeople with her exact same birth
chart.
She calls them her star twinsto kind of see, do we have any
similarities?
Like?
Her premise is no, I did that.
I went out in search of my startwins.
I found several of them.
(17:22):
I interviewed them.
So this was part of a project,like a little mission I had for
myself when I was trying tofigure out aspects of my own
life, and it felt like such arich journey that I decided to
instead turn it into afictionalized story instead of
writing, say, a memoir or aseries of essays about it.
I felt like it was just.
There was too much to play with.
(17:43):
It needed to be a novel, and sothat was the inspo.
So these books, they'reautofiction, and they're not
right Because they have elementsof autobiography, but all the
characters and the places andeverything that comes after that
is fictionalized.
Jordan (17:57):
Okay.
So, like I want to say too,with the heirloom, I naturally
gravitated towards it because ofthe blurb and then, as I was
reading it, I related to Shay,like I relate to you.
I don't think I ever consideredheirloom like rings, but I
think that's just because, like,I never considered that.
But so a little like insidething with my, my mom is she
(18:25):
actually?
She got married years ago butthey, they got divorced and I
got proposed to actually back in2023.
And my mom's, like you couldwear my, my wedding dress.
And I was like, actually backin 2023.
And my mom's, like you couldwear my wedding dress.
And I was like, absolutely not,mom, you are divorced.
No way would I ever step anyfoot near that dress.
And she's like, well, you couldcut it up and put some of it.
And I was like, no, no, no, thebad energy from I want nothing
to do with your wedding at all.
(18:47):
No, none of that energy, noneof that.
But I believe that I believelike the energy from that and I
mean you guys aren't eventogether anymore.
So like, why would I?
Jessie Rosen (18:59):
I don't want that.
I completely relate.
How did you feel after you readthe book?
Were you kind of like causewithout giving anything away?
Actually, this book has beenout for a year.
Maybe we can give some thingsaway.
Jordan (19:18):
I give her like props.
I loved the ending and Iactually really loved I got.
Okay, I'm really trying not togive anything away.
Jessie Rosen (19:23):
I okay, I think you can I think the statute of
limits on spoilers is over, Isay go, go and I am literally in
charge.
Jordan (19:31):
That is true and it's like also here spoiler warning
skip ahead if you don't wantspoilers.
So when she meets that otherguy, I already I'm so bad I
forgot his name.
Like I forget names.
Jessie Rosen (19:42):
I'm totally fine.
Jordan (19:44):
So she meets that other guy, graham, and I was rooting
for them Because I thought theylike I don't know, like I
thought they were connecting andmaybe because like her and her
fiance like weren't doing sowell, I was like yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And then like they kiss and I'mlike yeah, and, and then she
was, she was like oh, no, no.
And then I was like towards theend, like when she's staying
(20:07):
with her friends and I didn't,she doesn't know what, which one
to choose.
I was like, oh, I don't knowwhich one I would choose.
And then I actually really likedthat she ended up with her
fiance.
I thought, I don't know, like I, I really I love the ending you
picked for it and I was sohappy to hear that.
And I, like I know too, because, like I I don't know if you
(20:30):
like remember my story because Istarted reading it and then I
switched to the audio bookbecause I had to work the next
day but then at the end of theworkday I was back home, so then
I switched back to reading itand I don't know, Like, I think
I do really enjoy the narrator.
So anybody that wants to listento the audio highly recommend.
Jessie Rosen (20:48):
Great, great.
Enjoy the narrator, so anybodythat wants to listen to the
audio.
Jordan (20:49):
Highly recommend Great, great, great great.
I think I don't know.
I'm really glad I like finishedwhile reading it, though not
listening Because.
I think that was likeespecially that whole ending.
Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Rosen (21:03):
It's different.
It's different to encounter iton the page, and I'll say I get
this question a lot right.
Did I always know it was goingto be John in the end?
And the answer is absolutelyyes.
I always knew that, and one ofthe reasons for that is because
I think a lot of people writebeautiful stories about a woman
who doesn't know herself, and soshe goes on a journey and she
(21:23):
figures herself out and then shemeets the right partner.
So it wasn't with the rightperson before because she didn't
know herself.
I wanted to write a story abouta woman that didn't trust
herself, so something within herknew and it had navigated to
John and John was the right guy,but she didn't have a
relationship of trust withherself.
So this new person thatpresents is kind of like oh my
(21:46):
gosh, wait a minute, is thisreally showing me what I'm
supposed to be?
And her journey is aboutlearning to trust herself and to
understand that she had the wayto navigate to the right thing.
So I feel like those are twosuch distinct things.
And with the version that I waslooking to tell, she could
never end up with Graham,because it was never about the
idea of newness, it was aboutthe idea of what was inside her
(22:09):
that she didn't have access to.
Jordan (22:10):
Oh, my goodness, I never even considered that, but it
makes sense.
But I think you're right I doread all these stories that
they're romances where they'renot with their person and it's a
romance where I think this is alove story.
So it is messy and it is it'slife, and I think that's what I
(22:33):
also really enjoyed.
I like that.
You two, you also put themystery in there.
I mean, they go to Italy.
I'm like I'm sitting in theoffice in a cubicle and I'm like
, no, I'm in Italy right now,like I'm living life.
Jessie Rosen (22:45):
Me too, me too writing it because I wrote this
during the pandemic we werestill in the throes of not being
able to travel, and so thesedestinations were like total joy
for me, transportive, taking meout of that awful place that we
were all in and taking mesomewhere else.
So, yeah, and I also soappreciate you saying there is
romance in this book, but no,it's structurally not a romance
(23:07):
at all and it's structurally noteven a rom-com.
And I do feel like, while thereare relationships that are core
in love relationships orromantic relationships, this is
really a book about a woman andherself and it really is about
that dynamic of the relationshipbetween this person and her
insides and her heart.
And then how is that going tomake the other love stories in
(23:30):
her life, whether it's with herfiance or with her sister or
with, you know, the mother thatshe lost, like?
It's really about her heartchanging to allow for all of
those relationships to improve.
Jordan (23:43):
Yeah, and I two notes too, because I also really
enjoyed with the relationshipwith her mom and how she
wouldn't let her tell her thatlast she wouldn't let her talk
about like the ring and stufflike that.
I actually really enjoyed thatyou wrote it that way and the
fact that she was like now wecan never know Like you messed
(24:05):
up in a way and I think likethey were able to accept that.
But I feel like a lot of things, a lot of stories are written
so everything can be solved, butthat's not life and it's not
real, and so I really like Ialso.
And then one more thing Ireally like to that you put in
with the ring and it being likewell, you can create energy,
(24:26):
like you make it like a positiveenergy, and I guess I never
considered that myself and I waslike not that I would ever take
my mom's wedding dress, but Ido think like you can change
like the energy of something,and I think that is really cool.
So it's like reading this bookand it's like I learned
something too and I really,really liked this book.
Jessie Rosen (24:50):
I like I'm so, so glad and I'll tell you that idea
of the fact that the way thatit goes in the book, that I
think the line in the book mightactually be like the woman
wears the ring, which suggeststhat.
Like it's not about therelationship, it's not about the
other partner, it's about thewoman that is holding this thing
and deciding what it means.
And that's what it was for forShea's mother.
Until I had that line, likeuntil I had that concept, I
(25:13):
couldn't figure out how to writethe book, because I certainly
wasn't going to put somethingout in the world that suggested
that any person that has avintage item is damned or made
the wrong decision.
You know, I really needed to becareful about suggesting that,
no matter what situation you'rein, that can be beauty and
strength and your path can befine going forward.
So I'll never forget it.
(25:33):
Like TMI, I was in the showerand I was thinking about writing
this book.
I was like it's really time, Ireally have the time now, I
should really do it, but like Idon't have a way out of this box
that I'm in.
And I was in the shower and Iliterally said to myself oh, oh
(25:55):
my gosh, that is so cool.
Jordan (25:58):
It's like it's so cool, but it's.
I mean, you're right, you'retotally right, but wow, yeah,
yeah, it's just how it happened.
Okay, so this is the lastquestion in writing, but do you
have any future projects you'reworking on that you can give us
any hints about?
Jessie Rosen (26:22):
any hints about.
Yes, I am starting to writechapters on what I really hope
will be a third book and I needto get them down to make sure,
kind of.
I know the tone of this one isgoing to be different, but I'm
playing with writing it from thethird person versus the first
person, so I just want to seehow that feels and get that down
and then kind of all knowexactly what I'm pitching to my
editor.
And here's what I'll say.
It involves travel.
(26:44):
Of course we cannot have a bookwithout it.
It involves ons of a family andhow they're changing because of
a very big decision by one ofthe family members, and I feel
like those are such themes thatare inside both of the books so
far right About like who we areas people and what we need to do
(27:06):
for ourselves, what impact thathas on everyone else and how
that helps us all grow, movingforward, even if the growing
pains are very tricky and verysticky.
So that's that's where I'm atvery tricky and very sticky.
Jordan (27:18):
So that's where I'm at.
Ooh, I'm so excited.
Oh, my gosh, okay, okay.
So now we'll dive into readingwhat is your favorite book and
or series, a book you wouldrecommend to anyone and everyone
.
Jessie Rosen (27:33):
Well, I'm going to recommend something that is the
thing I go back to for a numberof reasons, inspiring my own
writing, and that I just thinkis an incredible book.
And it's an older book.
It's the Secret History byDonna Tartt, a real classic.
And one of the reasons that Ilove this book is because it
pairs something that I'm alwaystrying to do in my writing,
which is thought turning, pageturning action and true deep
(27:57):
emotional character development,and I think that's really,
really hard to do.
So I always go back to thesecret history.
It has mystery, it has, you know, multiple narratives, it has
characters that are changing andgrowing, like I try to infuse
my writing with, and it does itin a way that doesn't feel like
a thriller.
Even though there's thrill,it's not a mystery.
(28:19):
Even though there's mystery,it's not a romance.
Even though there's romanticelements.
It just defies the genre anddelivers you a really good story
.
And I always think of DonnaTartt when I'm writing, because
I think, like no quiet, thenoise about genre, write the
story that needs to be told,it'll find its way, and I think
she did a really good job ofthat.
(28:39):
So I recommend it to writers alot as an example, but obviously
for readers it's such a goodone.
Jordan (28:45):
I have to say, like I've heard like a lot of people have
recommended that book and Ilike want to read it and I know
I will.
I just haven't yet, but like Iwant to, like, I've heard
amazing things On that.
Forever TBR, it really is Okay.
So what is one line of writing,poetry or a quote that lives in
(29:05):
your head?
Rent free.
Jessie Rosen (29:09):
The first thing that comes to mind is something
that is a poem.
But the reason I know it thisis so me right, like the reason
I know it is because of a movie,because I'm such a film and TV
lover, and it is that quote thatlisteners may know from Willy
Wonka, which is we are the musicmakers and we are the dreamers
of dreams.
Willy Wonka says it in themovie, but it's actually an
(29:31):
Arthur O'Shaughnessy poem andthe poem is called Ode.
But you know, there's somethingso beautiful about I think I
love it because it's about thislike ownership of, like I'm a
creator.
You know, I make, I dream, I dothose things and I I'm.
I really identify with that.
(29:52):
It really inspires me to havethat as something that's core to
my soul.
It's like something I'm reallyproud of about myself.
So I think that's why it alwayscomes to mind.
Jordan (30:02):
I do really like that quote, but I don't.
Is that okay?
I have to ask is that the WillyWonka like the first one, or is
that the more recent movie it's?
Jessie Rosen (30:12):
definitely in the first one.
It's definitely in the old GeneWilder version, which is the
one that I grew up with.
I don't know if it's in the whois it Johnny Depp?
I don't know if it's in theJohnny Depp version or the
Timothee Chalamet version, butoh I didn't even think of that
one.
Jordan (30:27):
I know, I know I only I grew up with the like the older
one, like the Willy Wonka onetoo, but I haven't seen it in so
long that I don't remember thatquote.
But I feel like now I need togo watch it.
Jessie Rosen (30:38):
He just it's.
You know, that movie has like alot of kind of interesting.
Like that character kind oflike says things off the cuff
and he says it in the movie in areally powerful moment.
So, yeah, I can't wait for youto go back and watch it.
Jordan (30:50):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Okay, so the last one forreading is if you could have a
literary dinner party with threeauthors, living or dead who
would you invite and why?
Jessie Rosen (31:01):
I have my three, but I haven't considered I like
kind of forgot that we would allbe at dinner together.
So I was just like, okay, theseare the three people I want to
talk to.
But then I didn't consider whatwhat this will be like as a
dinner party dynamic.
But I'm saying my three.
Jordan (31:15):
I think they're going to get along.
Jessie Rosen (31:16):
I'm going to think they're going to get along
because I like them all and Ithink they're going to get along
.
I think they're going to getalong because I like them all
and I think it'll be aninteresting conversation.
Okay, so I mean I have to haveLouisa May Alcott, because
Little Women is Bible to me andI am one of four girls and so
her writing about her sisters, Ijust she's got to be there.
I have so many questions forher.
So my number one is Louisa MayAlcott.
(31:38):
My number two is also someonewho's no longer with us.
It's the incredible poet, maryOliver, and I love her poems and
I just she sees the world indark and light in a really
beautiful way, and she's alwaysable to kind of cut through the
darkness and offer levity, andit's something I aspire to in
(32:01):
myself.
So when I'm caught between thetwo, I go to her poems and I
just think she and Louisa wouldget along.
So I think that that's going towork out.
Also, they're both ghosts, sothey'll have that to talk about.
And then my third person who isvery much living is the author
Kevin Wilson.
I feel like this may sound likea strange pick, but Kevin
Wilson wrote this absolutelyincredible book.
(32:22):
It's called Nothing to See hereand it is about a woman who
ends up being the nanny forchildren that spontaneously set
fire, like fire comes fromwithin them.
It's a wild premise.
It's one of my favorite readsof all time, even though it's a
recent read.
It was probably published fouror five of all time, even though
it's a recent read, probablypublished four or five years ago
(32:42):
, and since then I've readeverything that Kevin Wilson
writes.
All of his books had thesereally interesting, bizarre,
very creative setups, these hugehooks, and I'm so fascinated by
them and fascinated by him.
So I have to talk to him andI'm not entirely sure how he's
going to get along with Mary andwill be up.
I think it's going to be finebecause I know that he'll have
(33:02):
deeper spec for them.
So I think it's going to workout.
And those are my three.
Jordan (33:07):
Yeah, no, it would be perfect and I think that would
be.
I want to sit in that on thatdinner party Like I want to hear
those answers.
Jessie Rosen (33:16):
Totally.
Jordan (33:18):
Okay, so we're at the last part, which is personal,
and there's two questions.
So the first one is what is afun fact about you that your
readers or listeners might besurprised to learn?
Jessie Rosen (33:29):
I know, I've really struggled with this
because I feel like I'm to acertain degree, I'm like really
an open book.
So I'm going to say this I am amassive scaredy cat.
I'm really scared when it comesto, like huge example, horror
films.
Like I don't go to them.
I don't think that'sentertaining, right?
(33:50):
I'm this big scaredy cat whenit comes to things like that.
Except as a reader, I'm likereally drawn to thriller.
So it's so interesting to methat something about, like, if I
can control it by reading it onthe page and I read a ton of
thriller, there's somethingdifferent than me watching it.
Like, again, I read all StephenKing and don't see any of the
(34:13):
movies.
So I don't know, I don't knowwhat that disconnect is for me,
the difference between readingit I can read Stephen King in
bed at 11 o'clock when myhusband's not home, like no
problem, I'm not afraid.
And yet I will never see, forexample, the movie it, and
certainly not in theaters, myGod, but I don't even think at
my own home.
(34:33):
So I feel like this is a weirdthing about me.
It may even be weird to saythat I read a lot of thriller,
but even weirder is the factthat I can do that and I cannot
watch scary movies Interesting,I like that.
Jordan (34:46):
Well, okay, so I'm going to insert another question what
is your favorite thriller ofall time?
I'm guessing a Stephen King one.
Jessie Rosen (34:56):
I mean, I think it's to be honest with you, the
first book that was, I would say, thriller that I read and was
so wowed by that it like crackedeverything open for me and I
started reading more thrillerwas Carrie, which is like the
pinnacle of the original, and soI really I have to point to
that just because I think it, Inever would have read thriller
at all, and the only reason Iread Carrie is because I read
Stephen King's great book onwriting.
As I was approaching you know,I was younger in my writing
(35:19):
career and I was just inspiredby his process and everyone says
that's one of the great tomesof writing advice is that book.
And so after reading that bookand he talks so much about
developing Carrie and about thatbook I was like, well, I have
to now start reading actualStephen King.
And that's how it started.
Jordan (35:36):
Wait, is this also why you wrote that YA thriller?
Jessie Rosen (35:44):
started.
Wait, is this also why youwrote that YA thriller?
Yes and no.
Yes, because I felt comfortableenough being like, oh, I have
read a bunch of thriller, Icould weave this story, I could
figure this out.
Yeah, and the other answer tothat question is that started as
a television pitch.
So my TV manager thought itcould be a fun hook for
something like the CW at thetime when the CW was kind of
still in its big heyday, and sowe created a television pitch
(36:06):
and then ultimately, when itdidn't sell as a TV pitch, I was
really encouraged to try towrite it as a novel, and I owe
so much to the people that havebeen part of my whole writing
journey who have seen andbelieved what I was capable of
before I was able to see it andit pushed me in that direction.
So, yes, I had a knowledge ofthriller and I liked thriller,
(36:27):
but it was really because of thesuggestion of my amazing
manager, rachel Miller.
And another fun fact I did thatbook with at an agency that was
called Foundry, with an agentnamed Molly Glick, and years
later Molly Glick moved to CAA,my current agency, and I got to
work with her again on Heirloomand All the Signs, and so it's
(36:49):
so interesting, right?
Perhaps this whole story aboutenjoying thrillers is I owe my
whole career to it.
I'm not sure.
Jordan (36:57):
Oh, my wait, that's so cool and like, and I think that
just shows you it's also like asign that like it is meant to be
.
It is.
It's meant to be yes.
Okay, so we're on the lastquestion.
So sad.
What is one future goal thatyou would like to achieve,
either long term or short term,and it could be in writing,
(37:18):
anything bookish or personal too.
Jessie Rosen (37:21):
Yeah, I think I would be so sad if my writing
career ended without me writingsomething about the writing
process.
I do coaching of writers.
I've offered workshops onwriting.
I really love the craft ofwriting and I think, more
importantly, I love turningpeople that don't think they're
(37:41):
writers into writers.
There's something reallymagical about that to me.
I have this theory that thefastest way to change your life
is to write a book, and so I'malways kind of thinking about
what I could offer as I getfurther along in my career and
as I truly feel like I have areal knowledge of the form.
It's so funny, right?
(38:02):
I've been at this for almost 20years and yet I still feel like
, no, no, I have to.
I have to make sure I reallyhave the right things to say
before I create something likethat, whether it's a book or
otherwise.
But it's a big dream to be ableto like leave this world and
leave that behind so that otherwriters may feel some calm or
some peace or some tips andtricks because of what I learned
(38:25):
oh okay, that that's actuallyreally cool.
Jordan (38:30):
Now I will expect to see that at some point.
I love it also.
Jessie Rosen (38:35):
I should just say, like everything has been so
like writerly and heady andthoughtful and readily I I mean,
another goal of mine is to justbe a better cook.
So there there's something Iwant to offer, something simple
as well as well.
Jordan (38:49):
I like that.
I like that too.
Granted, I like I.
I want to be able to cook, butit's not that I want to be able
to cook.
I wish I just liked cooking.
Jessie Rosen (38:59):
I'm I don't like to cook, I'm so glad you said
that I think that's the categoryI'm into, like I can cook, it's
not, you know, I just want tolike it.
I think that's what I'm saying.
Jordan (39:08):
I like yeah, exactly like I don't, because I I for
the longest time like ever sinceI was in high school, I'd just
be like it.
I think that's what I'm saying.
I like, yeah, exactly Like Idon't, cause I I, for the
longest time like ever since Iwas in high school, I'd just be
like, oh, like, when I get myown place, I'll cook.
And then it's like I moved inwith roommates and then I was
like, no, when I have my own ownplace.
And then I moved in with, like,my boyfriend at the time, and
then I was like, oh, thenquarantine and COVID and all
(39:30):
that happened and I'm like, oh,yeah, now I'll cook.
And I'm like, no, I still amnot cooking Like I.
So I'm like I realized I just Idon't, I don't like it and I
wish I liked it.
Jessie Rosen (39:40):
You know, hearing you say this, I'm like I support
us, not liking it.
I'm canceling my thing.
I want to learn.
I don't want to do it.
You're right, I don't.
I don't want to do it.
I just want to want to do itbecause I think that's good.
Wow, this has been reallytherapeutic.
Thank you so much.
Jordan (39:58):
You're so welcome.
I mean, does your husband liketo cook at least?
Jessie Rosen (40:04):
He loves it.
Oh see, we're fine, we're fine,it is what we're fine.
Jordan (40:10):
We're fine, you, he, he's starting, mine is starting
to kind of like it.
He's like I'm really enjoyingit.
I'm like perfect, you cook,I'll do the dishes and we're
golden.
Jessie Rosen (40:21):
Yeah, I mean, it truly is golden over here.
I'm living that life and so Idon't know why I'm looking to
upset the apple cart.
I think you're right.
I think this is very muchprobably internalized about how
a woman is supposed to be in amarriage.
I think this is evidence of ourculture, and you know what I'm
rejecting it.
I take it back.
Rewind the tape.
Jordan (40:41):
You're going to work on that book for writers.
That's exactly right, andnothing else.
Nothing, just that.
Well, also all fiction bookstoo, like I want you to work on
that other project and like Okaygood, okay good.
Jessie Rosen (40:54):
Yeah, don't forget those.
Don't forget those.
At least I don't have time tocook and that's it.
Jordan (40:59):
Yeah, exactly, your time's taken up.
Sorry, there's only so muchtime in the day and you're busy.
I want to give you the floor.
Is there anything you want tolike, plug or like your website?
Jessie Rosen (41:12):
I also put things in the show notes too, so yeah,
no, I'm so grateful for thesupport and the love.
You know all the signs of mysecond novel is out now and I do
.
I'm so excited to hear how thisnovel makes people think about
what they want in their livesand what journeys they may want
to go on.
So I'm really excited to hearfrom readers about that.
(41:33):
And just the other thing I'mexcited about is I recently
started a Substack, so it'sbraverybyjessierosensubstackcom
and it's given me a chance to.
You know, books take such along time to get together and to
write and to publish and I wasmissing that more regular
interaction with people aroundideas that are important to me,
so hence the sub stack.
(41:53):
So I feel like that's thein-between of the books.
Not fiction, it's nonfiction,it's almost like memoir about my
life, but it is this coolopportunity to connect with
people in between the books.
Jordan (42:03):
Oh my gosh, Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
I had so much fun chatting withyou and thank you.
Jessie Rosen (42:10):
It was so fun, much fun, chatting with you and
thank you.
It was so fun, just like I knewit would be.
It's really nice to connectwith you and thank you.
Thank you because this allstarted, because you were so
sweet about the heirloom it's sogood it's.
Jordan (42:20):
I'm like, I'm actually so I think this it's like
another sign, like I reallytruly believe I.
I just I don't even.
I like saw it in my indiebookstore, like when I saw it
and I just I picked it up and itwas just like so random, like I
didn't see it anywhere, like Ididn't.
Jessie Rosen (42:38):
Yes.
Jordan (42:39):
That's like, it's just like so cool.
Jessie Rosen (42:42):
Yeah, yeah, wait, let's finish by shouting out
your indie bookstore, where youfound it no-transcript.
Jordan (47:36):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Please feel free to rate andreview us on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts or wherever you listen,and if there's any interviews
or conversations you would likeme to have with someone specific
, please reach out either emailor through our Instagram,
available in the show notes andhappy reading.
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