Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros

Our latest podcast episode dives deep into the world of "Iron Flame," offering a varied perspective on the unfolding story and character relations. Prepare for cliffhangers, emotional turns, and engaging discussions that encapsulate readers' varied responses to the book.

• Analyzing the relationship dynamics between Violet and Xaden 
• Discussing the role of cliffhangers and pacing in the narrative 
• Exploring the importance of dragons as characters and symbols 
• Receiving feedback on the character depth and development 
• Sharing predictions for future venues and resolutions in the series 

p.s. we did combine both part one and part two from the smutty days into this one episode so it is a longer one. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY!!

Don't forget to rate and review wherever you listen.

Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: [e-mail]
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
Follow Us:
Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Episode Transcript

Jordan (00:07):
welcome to the bookish hour with jor and fab I want to
hear your first, your first,very first, thoughts on the
first half of iron flame I lovedthe spot that we picked to be
the like that I just couldn'tbelieve.

Fabienne (00:29):
like you don't know how badly I wanted to continue
reading just for that spot.
Granted this, sorry guys, this.
Well, hopefully you'relistening to this after you read
iron flame Cause.
This will be filled withspoilers.
But basically we don't know ifZayden and Alaric make it
underneath the door Like that'swho she's, I think it was them
too.

Jordan (00:50):
Yeah, no, it was them too, okay, yes.

Fabienne (00:51):
So it's like and I had to close my Kindle so fast
because I wanted to just do likea quick peek, but I did not.

Jordan (01:00):
I did not.
You contained yourself.
I'm so proud of you, did you?
You too, I did too.
Yes, no, I completely.
I mean, I even asked you rightbefore this episode, like when
we started recording, just tojust refresh here, did we?
Were we supposed to read 33 or34?
Oh right, we're discussing thevery first beginning of the book

(01:22):
, up until chapter 34.
Yes, so read 33 stop 34 yeah,don't read 34 and also like, if
you have, if you read from likethe physical copy, like either
hardback or paperback, um it,the the formatting is very
unfortunate because you willskip right to the second page

(01:45):
and you can read chapter 34.
So I had to place something ontop of that one page, so I could
not continue.

Fabienne (01:55):
Really, yes, Even though I have that cover.
I basically was reading off myKindle Cause it's just so much
easier.
I don't know what it is aboutthis like formatting, that I'm
just having such difficultieslike staying focused with.

Jordan (02:16):
I think it's like the size Cause it is like a bigger
book too.
I mean, for example, if youtake this one, do you see the
size?
It's so different.
That is true, I don't know, butI agree with you.
Also, we always choose theright moment to fucking stop a

(02:39):
book.
I know.

Fabienne (02:41):
But like mind you, can I just say Always no.
But like mind you, oh, can Ijust say always.
I basically started this bookSunday night because I was
trying to finish my other series.
So I started this Sunday nightand I maybe read two chapters
and I was like I don't know howI'm gonna have this done in time
.
I mind you, this kind ofhappened with fourth wing.

(03:02):
I had different thoughtsbecause I heard that the first
half of the book was going to bereally slow.
So I was very nervous.
I was not going to have thisdone in time for today.
But every time a chapter endedit kind of ends on a cliffhanger
that you have to keep reading.
It really does of like you needto know what happens next.
But I do have to say thateverything's kind of blended

(03:25):
together for me in the sense oflike fourth wing and this first
half.
So, even though it is reallygood and I can't put it down,
which has happened the same forthe first book Like people were
like oh my god, book hangoverswith fourth wing and like, don't
get me wrong, I loved fourthwing.
Love dragons, I love Taran, Ilove all that.
But it didn't get me wrong, Iloved fourth wing love dragons,

(03:46):
I love tar and I love all that,but it didn't put me in a book
hangover and that's kind of howI'm feeling that this one's
going to be too.
Still love it.
I actually do not really carefor zayden and violet's
relationship at all like I don'tgive two fucking shits of
anything that happens betweenthem but I love violet and

(04:07):
tarin's relationship so much soevery time we get them and the
the fact that how he has herback, so like with the like with
everybody else within the likecollege, I I'm like living for
this relationship yeah, I couldnot agree more really yes, I,

(04:30):
and especially with like the,the relationship, I mean with
how to like wow, I can't findthe right um with how fourth
wing ended.

Jordan (04:41):
Um zayden lied to her about her brother, about this
rebellion, uh, which you knowstore like for the sake of the
story.
I completely understand,because we do need like um, we
do need like a clash of sorts,we do need um struggle between
the main characters, we needlike the hardships between them
to for them just to just likeovercome.

(05:01):
But take out the romance partand this book would, would like
work just fine.
Um, I actually am of theopinion that this would have
been a very fantastic like.
I don't even need the swearing,I don't even need the cursing,

(05:22):
I don't need, you know, like theword fucking on like every
other um I mean I'm sorry, sorry, wait, I think your sound cut
off.

Fabienne (05:31):
This would be a perfect.
What were you saying?
Really yeah, like I think I Ithink I just missed something.
What were you saying?
This book?

Jordan (05:40):
would be oh, this would this, this could have.
This would have been a perfectyoung adult book oh yes, and
just like left out all the yeah,I mean we could have like a
romantic type of undertone, butlike um, look at um the hunger
games, for example, katniss andpita, and like gail.
I think there was likeobviously romantic tension there

(06:03):
, but just like the beginning ofa character finding their like
I'm not finding the right wordsum, let's just leave it at the
fact that I think this wouldhave been better as a ya book.
Yes, that new adult, I mean.
Again, I'm grateful for itbecause I do like the maturity
of it all, because I am turning30 almost.

(06:27):
But this would have worked justas well without, like, the
actual smut.
Also, I'm not a fan of howRebecca smuts.
I'm just going to put it outthere.

Fabienne (06:40):
Okay, fair, I have to say I did really enjoy the smut
in the first book, like Ienjoyed their relationship
within the first book a lot andI think because of the tension,
I think because they wereenemies, because he hated her,
because she was like drawn tohim but like he didn't want to

(07:02):
be, and then plus with thedragons mixed in, I I really did
like their relationship.
But I think in this one I justit's not that I hate it, I just
don't give a shit about it.
So like I don't hate it, but Iyeah, I just say I don't care,
but I do.
I really like violet and howshe's growing within herself.

(07:24):
So I really like how she's comelike.
She was like a kind of like ascared but she like her mom made
her join this like writersgroup um, but now you can see
how she's becoming moreconfident within being a writer
and so like when they had to dothat land navigation thing and
they were like we don't listento you and I, I don't know like

(07:45):
I kind of like that and I likethat bond between them.

Jordan (07:49):
So like um with re rihanna, rihanna, yeah yeah,
okay, I actually like theirrelationship way better than I
do, hers and zeta like thefriendships I think that's yes.
That should have been like thefucking forefront of it all.

Fabienne (08:04):
With the other, like the other, like Relic people, so
like Emojin, emojin.

Jordan (08:12):
Imogen.

Fabienne (08:14):
Imogen.

Jordan (08:15):
Imogen.

Fabienne (08:16):
I was kind of close.
I just want to say you werekind of close, nice and Bodhi,
bodhi, and I would say Rydek too.

Jordan (08:24):
But Rydek isn't a relic person.
No, he's in that core group.

Fabienne (08:29):
But I like even her relationship with the relic
people.
It's just not her relationshipwith Zayden.
I don't like that or not that Iagain I don't give a shit about
it.
I can see his importance ofbeing this strong writer and
kind of running the rebellion orrevolution because his dad did,

(08:52):
and I get his point, or hisimportance of a character in the
story.
Maybe you're saying that thiswould be better if it was YA,
but I don't even know if thatwould be the case either.
I think they just don't need arelationship like.

Jordan (09:12):
I think they're not fitting together maybe it could
have been new adult in the senseof like the things that the um
discusses, for lack of a betterword.
But the romance between Satanand Violet isn't necessarily for
me and apparently for you.
It's not necessary for thestory, it's not like the main

(09:36):
plot.
It could be like a subplot, afantasy with a romantic.

Fabienne (09:42):
Yeah, well, because I was thinking too.
You know, what she should havedone is she should have the
first one, should have had nosmut in it, and she should have
made this a slow burn.
So then technically they stillhated each other.
They were still enemies evenafter.
But like she's like, almostlike, did you read the cruelel
Prince and the Wicked King?

(10:04):
I?

Jordan (10:04):
did.
I did the goddamn series, butyes, I'm also getting what
you're referring to.

Fabienne (10:10):
But the same same.
But I also the progression ofthat book series was amazing,
like you could really like it'slike the slow burn and actual
enemies to lovers, like I almostwish this was maybe that where

(10:30):
they still kind of hated eachother but like, and maybe Zayden
was still holding these secretsand Violet's still trying to
uncover them, but theyunderstand their importance in
this like revolution, likeeverything could have still
happened in, but just withoutthem being romantic, like take

(10:52):
both of those two, because Ithink it was like twice in the
first book, take both of thoseout, make the story still the
same, but she, like they stillare, they're starting to care
for each other.
So like at that last battle withthe way wavern, waverns, like
she could still go and like savehim and like all of that still

(11:13):
could have happened because like, deep down she's like starting
to care for him but still hateshim and still like knows he's
the enemy.
And I think because we did getto like a smut section in this
one in the shower.
But I think again, I think allof that could have happened, but
then it could have been like,oh, like, no, like we hate each
other, like I think that wouldhave been better for the story

(11:35):
and maybe that's what you like,what I can kind of see, like
this could be why?
A?
Because, if you take that out,it kind of is and maybe I, I
don't know, I do but I'm also,but I can't, I'm not, I'm.

Jordan (11:55):
It's not like I hate the story, like I'm still really no
, definitely not, but there isjust like elements that I think
could have been done differentlyor better, or even like left
out story to be more, I guess,fulfilling in a way.
Yeah, um, but what you saidbefore too, like every single
chapter ended practically on acliffhanger and it made you want

(12:16):
to continue and like continueand continue, like the next
chapter, chapter.

Fabienne (12:21):
So exactly it's.
I believe it's still good.
Sorry no, no, no, go it's adiscussion we talk, we talk we
just talk over each other and Ibasically um, but no, because
what I was going to say is itthat did?
Basically, I read all of it.

(12:42):
Yesterday I, once I finishedwork, I basically read the whole
thing, stayed up until 2 amreading it.
Oh, she did, mind you, in myhead I'm like, okay, I need to
have it done for Tuesday becauseI also don't want to see any
spoilers.
But it wasn't difficult to justkeep reading, like I just, you

(13:02):
know, every chapter, like you'resaying, ended where I like
wanted to keep reading and Ilived for the relationship of
her and Lauren.
So like, every time that likedynamic came up, I would be like
squealing.
So like when he oh my gosh, whenhe bit that guy's like um
dragon, I know, uh, so less, Ithink, yes, um, dragon I know uh

(13:24):
so let's I think, yes, yeah,yes, like he was, like you can't
be the, the main person incharge if you don't have a
dragon, and so, like I, I'mliving for their relationship,
like I love them so fucking muchI saw, um, I saw a reel, I
think, either earlier today ormaybe even yesterday, and it

(13:47):
said I hope that Satan andViolet do not like turn out In
the sense of like.

Jordan (13:54):
I hope that the ship just like is ruined for whatever
frick reason and that Tarn orTarn, or however you want to
pronounce his name, turns out,have, like me, a human form and
they want it to be like amonster type of romance.
I'm like, oh my god, no, I mean, I'm really loving their bond
protection, like theprotectiveness, but there is a

(14:17):
line I'm drawing there.

Fabienne (14:19):
I do not want that relationship to be like romantic
at all, whether he has a humanside of him or not.
I just I love that almost likeguardian yes type of
relationship I mean I don't thatis what they have right and
that's what makes it so good Ihonestly was so freaking

(14:40):
disappointed in what our nardenor nerd the other, the golden,
the feather a dragon, oh god theother, the other dragon, yes,
the golden one, who's now blackscales.
Um, I was, so I was.
I could not wait for her to seeher dragon, and see how big she

(15:05):
was and how different she was.
Granted, we didn't know she wasgoing to be black scaled yet,
but it was so anticlimactic thatI was so disappointed how that
scene played out.
I was like and maybe it'sbecause I built it up in my head
that I was like this scene'sgoing to be amazing.
And when she just saw him, she,just when she saw her like

(15:28):
Violet saw her she was just likewhat the fuck?
And I was like what the fuck?
Like this should be better thanthis, yeah.

Jordan (15:35):
Like we need more of a reaction out of you, violet.
Where's the rest?
Where's the rest of your?

Fabienne (15:39):
expressionless reaction.
But what is kind of, what iskind of saving?
It is like that evil guy.
I can't wait for her to see hernew dragon and have her be like
huge and she's actually like,yeah, which farish, something,
something yes um, but I am verycurious.

(16:01):
The one thing is is I know,because she has another dragon
and I saw it.
I saw like people talking abouther like second, second, like
power Signal, nope, like she hasthe lightning from Taran, like
so what is she going to havefrom Ammoner?

Jordan (16:23):
Jesus Christ, jesus Christ.
I think the way I pronounce itis a signet Like a signet.

Fabienne (16:36):
Okay, what's her next power?
That's what I'm going to say,because I am not going to
remember that.
Well, don't you think that?

Jordan (16:41):
she might have.
Like, I do believe something.
It has to do something withtime, I think.

Fabienne (16:50):
No, I thought all the hatchlings have that power.
All the like baby dragons canstop time, but no one knows that
, because most hatchlings do notdo the threshing Do not, but
because she did, that's how sheknew, but I don't think that's
actually her power, that's justlike what the babies can do.

(17:13):
But I like, so I know, and Idid see like spoilers.
Then what do you think?
Well, so I saw spoilers sayingshe would have another power,
but I don't know what it couldbe.
Oh, okay, but yeah, and I madesure, like anything else, I just
like kind of scrolled bybecause like I don't, that's
like.
The one thing is, even thoughI'm not, this isn't like a Sarah

(17:36):
J Maas book for me, mm, hmm,but I still don't want to be
spoiled, like I still want tospoiled, like I still want to
like, but I have no idea whather.
I feel like I could either seeit being something lightning,
storm weather related, or I cansee it being something
completely freaking different,like she can heal herself or

(17:56):
some shit what do you do?

Jordan (17:59):
we know what I I generally do not, I, I don't
know.
Well, I mean, I just I now likeI think it has to do maybe
something with time, that youknow, because look at me, I'm
the main character of thisfantastic fantasy novel and of
course I can stop time evenafter I don't have a hashling,
because I'm special.
Look at me, I think it's goingto be anticlimactic in that

(18:20):
sense then too.
I mean, adarna is already now ablack fancy scales.
I think I can see it happening,that they are trying to prolong
, if you will, the time stoppingpower thing very poorly

(18:41):
explained.

Fabienne (18:41):
oh oh, like they'll like pushing.
I have a feeling she's notgoing to come back until like
either the very end of this oneor even possibly the beginning
of the next, like the seconddragon, whatever Really quick
looks.
But I have heard like a lot ofpeople like, because people were

(19:02):
saying they were spoiledbecause they saw the last line
of this one.
So I'm like I'm, I have afeeling it's gonna end kind of
like fourth wing, where it'slike her brother's not dead.

Jordan (19:12):
Welcome to the revolution oh, can I just jump
on that real quickly.
I I thought that was gonna playout to be much bigger than it
was in the first half of this.
I thought that violet was goingto have, um, like some crazy
type of moments where she wouldjust like completely spin out of

(19:34):
it and just be like, oh shit,my brother's alive and I do not
know what to do with thisinformation.
I can't, I can't tell anybody.
I just have to contain this andI felt I was robbed.

Fabienne (19:49):
What was the last part ?

Jordan (19:50):
you just said it cut cut you off again really christ, um
, that, I just, oh god, whatdidn't I say no, I just I just
thought, like, um, her knowingthat her brother turns out to be
alive, I thought that was goingto have a much bigger storyline
in the first half of this bookand I was expected, with, you

(20:15):
know, with the first book, kindof having established Violet's
character as a book character.
I mean, obviously I thoughtthat she would go stir crazy
with knowing that her brother isalone but not being allowed to
tell anybody, and she stillhasn't told anybody.

Fabienne (20:35):
I mean, um, re reanna rihanna, why I haven't seen
rihanna, her best friend.

Jordan (20:45):
They know now about the Vernon and the Wyvern and how
Liam actually died, but shedidn't talk about the brother
and I don't know.
I just thought that it shouldhave been a bigger thing, in my
opinion okay fair, I guess.

Fabienne (21:03):
Like I didn't really think too much about that.
I was actually really happybecause I kind of was nervous
that this book was not going totake place at the college again.
But I'm actually really happythey went back to the college
Because I think I wanted Iwanted them being back there.
I didn't want her just gettinglike one year of this like

(21:24):
college and then all of a suddenI have a feeling the next book
is going to be year three andthen after that will be them
like whether faking their owndeath or like joining this like
I.
The thing is is I can't.
I think five books is going tobe too long.
If the this is the way it'smoving, I feel like this series

(21:46):
could have been summed up inthree.

Jordan (21:50):
Hang on, are there, that's?

Fabienne (21:53):
what's set for right now?
Are there five?

Jordan (21:55):
really five books.

Fabienne (21:57):
But who knows, maybe it will get kind of.
Oh yeah, lord, it could gettight.
I don't know, not tightened up,but they did.
Amazon studios picked up the TVshow for fourth wing.
So like I have a feeling, theAmazon show for fourth wing is
going to be awesome, as long asthey cast.

Jordan (22:18):
Sorry, oh.

Fabienne (22:20):
God yes.

Jordan (22:21):
Do you have a fan cast Fourth wing?
Me neither.
Oh god, yes.
Do you have a fan cast fourthwing?

Fabienne (22:27):
No Well me, neither I've been seeing like reels of
it.

Jordan (22:30):
I just hope they do the dragon's justice.
Yes, yes, because I can't lookat yes, because I can't look at
bad CGI jobs where it's justlike a potato with wings and
four sticks.
I can't look at that shit.

Fabienne (22:46):
That's going to be like the spoof on Fourth Wing
it's going to be Medina.

Jordan (22:53):
Like a YouTube vid.
Yes, this is produced in ourgarage.

Fabienne (22:59):
Yes, enjoy, there you go Bon appetit.
I was shocked that jack isalive.
I was not I was I.

Jordan (23:13):
oh, I'm so glad that you brought this up, because I
thought that I was just.
I was he.
He died.
I thought he died in theprevious book.
Exactly same Jack Barlow, yeah.
And now that I saw his name popup I'm like wait a second,
things are not really makingsense here.

(23:34):
And then I thought back onFourth Wing and I could not
remember for the life of me howhe would have died.
I mean, violet killed him, Ithink, but now I'm not sure how
did he see him?

Fabienne (23:56):
oh rock, yeah, when she like when did rocks fell on
him?
It was like for during, likethe war games, like when she
like he was trying to kill her,and then she like shot the
lightning at the rock and itlike impaled him or it like fell
over him, but technically youjust assumed he was dead.
But there was no.
I don't think we saw a body.
So it kind of like, wasn't helike?

Jordan (24:12):
called, like with one of those name rules, one of those
professors just like.

Fabienne (24:16):
So, oh I think so actually, I don't remember, but
I think so.
Um, but the fact that nowthey're friends.

Jordan (24:25):
Yeah, he saved his life.

Fabienne (24:33):
Very confusing for me I almost feel like it's you know
how they're like trying to killher and everybody that went to
the, the rustin, recent orwhatever that town name is what
called.
I feel like now that they'retrying to like assassinate her
and every temp has failed.
I feel like jack has beenbrainwashed now and is was told

(24:59):
to get close to her and then isgoing to kill her at the end as
would?

Jordan (25:04):
that's your prediction for this now.

Fabienne (25:06):
Yes, like I think that the commissioner or whatever
the like main guy in charge ofthe war camp or the college, now
I think, because he was whilehe was being mended, jack was
being mended, he was there withNolan, so I almost feel like
Jack has been like brainwashedin a way to get close to her so
then that way, when he's at hisclosest, he can kill her, to

(25:28):
assassinate her.
Clearly it won't work becauseshe's like the main character of
the series, but that's what Ithink is going on with it.

Jordan (25:34):
He has to survive just for like um one eternity.

Fabienne (25:37):
Yeah, she can die.
At the end of the last one Also, there is no series based?

Jordan (25:40):
yeah, wow, that would be .
Can you imagine just like, havethe entire dies and there's
like an epilogue of like andthen just a few drags?

Fabienne (25:55):
oh my god, everyone just like um, isn't that okay?
Two thoughts isn't that whathappened in the divergent series
?
I've only read the first one,but like, yes dies at the end of
like the last one, the actualbooks.

Jordan (26:07):
Yes, yeah, I um god, this was such a long time ago.
Good lord, um, yeah, I thinkshe gave her life for the
greater good, but I'm not evenwhat the but yes, she did
sacrifice herself, um, but themovies, they were completely

(26:28):
different I only ever read thefirst book and watched the first
movie.

Fabienne (26:33):
I never good, don't, don't ever, don't ever continue
any and yeah, um, I tried toread the second one because I
read the first one before therewere like the books were out, um
.
So when the second one came out, I tried to read it and I was
like I don't care, so I justlike stopped.
Um, but with the one part I didlike with Zayden and Violet was

(26:55):
it was like hold on, now I, I,I gotta do it justice.

Jordan (27:14):
So I want to see if I.

Fabienne (27:16):
I'm pretty sure I highlighted it, so I should.
It should work this should workwhat?
are you trying to do precisely?
I'm trying to get to this onequote.

(27:38):
What did I not highlight?

(28:00):
It was basically like I wouldlose this war if it meant that I
wouldn't lose you.
It was like something like that.
But clearly it was likesomething he said to her in the
last book and he was like sayingit again, being like I wasn't
lying when I said and I was likethat is like the ultimate
morally gray hero and I lovedthat.
That was like the one part Iloved about like their

(28:23):
relationship, the two of them.
Everything else Like questionabout Dane.

Jordan (28:32):
How do we feel about him , cause I really am not sure.

Fabienne (28:41):
Okay.

Jordan (28:42):
As in.

Fabienne (28:43):
I don't, I don't try to be.
I don't think he was reallytrying to be like evil.
I think he was just relayinginformation to his dad, but I
don't think he was purposelylike.
I don't think he knows aboutthe waverns.
I don't think he knows about,like, what's actually going on

(29:04):
outside of the wards.
I think his dad just wantedinformation and he like went to
give it to him.
Um, not saying that he's all inthe clear, but I, I think he
just kind of I don't, I just Idon't think he's as bad as like
we're thinking.
He is in, yeah, book one.

(29:25):
Um, I think he just Because itkind of goes to show when he was
pulled into that interrogationroom and that horrible main guy
of the college was like, okay,read her memories.
And then he's like no, no, andhe walked away.
So I think it just proves thathe is like Whether he's trying
to be a good person for her.

(29:46):
But I don't think yeah, oh mygod.
Plot twist she ends up withDane.
Oh my god.
Well, I don't think I wouldnecessarily hate, it, I mean.

Jordan (30:05):
I mean I don't really feel anything towards satan.
I mean I like the enemies tolovers vibe that it had in
fourth wing but now I was justlike, I loved them together yes,
and now it's just like.

Fabienne (30:21):
I hate that like what?

Jordan (30:24):
no, I thought you froze on me oh no, I hate the like.

Fabienne (30:28):
So I loved the enemies to lovers, like what you're
saying in book one, but I hatethat they became lovers and now
it's.
He won't tell me I he loves me,so I don't want to be with him.

Jordan (30:45):
I think actually, well, what I was about, what I meant
to ask character establish anddo we want to have like a
redemption art?
And with that I meant to say Idon't, I don't necessarily mind
either one, maybe I don't care.

(31:08):
But now that you brought up thehypothetical, what if she ended
up with Dane?
I'm like, actually I'm notopposed Friends to enemies to
lovers.

Fabienne (31:23):
Right, I kind of like that.
I think that would be kind ofcool if, like, especially if
this is going to span over likefive books.
It'd be kind of cool if, like,something happens and it's like
I it's definitely not becauselike taran and seagull or seara,
like zayden's dragon, are likefucking me.

Jordan (31:44):
So how do you pronounce that?
I have no idea, I'm notlaughing at you, I swear to god,
but I'm just like I find it, Ifind it.
I find it just curious ingeneral not necessarily just you
um, how people will pronouncelike fantasy names, because
there is no guide either.
Hell, half of the time I don'teven know how to pronounce all

(32:06):
the fucking cities and like themountain ranges and like well,
and that's the thing I don'tknow, because I know what the
first few letters look like.

Fabienne (32:15):
I don't even look at the rest of the name because I
already just know what it like,what it is so like I have no
idea.
Well, like, like, when you readover it, it's like you just
know that.
It's like you know who thatcharacter is, so it's like it
doesn't have like I don't.
So I can't even tell you thename now because I don't know

(32:35):
what all the letters are like.
I just kind of know the firstfew letters to know that it's
his work.

Jordan (32:42):
They're like talking about his dragon, which his
dragon did not have a very bigpart in this one I feel like I
think she only have made likemaybe two appearances yeah like
in the beginning, when they were, when they were still with
brannon, like her brother, andwhen she tried to you know, like

(33:02):
um, the mental talk with hisdragon, that was like the only.

Fabienne (33:08):
Yeah, to get like Zayden to back off.

Jordan (33:13):
Yes, um, I say um, as Guile, as Guile, as Guile.

Fabienne (33:22):
Hmm, okay.

Jordan (33:24):
Honestly, just because it makes more sense to me.

Fabienne (33:25):
I think Fair Question mark.
I had no pronunciation.

Jordan (33:27):
Hmm, okay, just because it makes more sense to me, I
think, Fair Question mark.
I had no pronunciation, it wasjust I would love to have a
pronunciation guide when itcomes to fantasy books.
I just love the extrainformation.

Fabienne (33:39):
Same I actually.
I ended up buying the audiobookbecause I bought the ebook.
I got the audio for an extrafive dollars.
I should listen to parts of theaudio just to see, like how the
narrator pronounces the namesoh my god, I'm so stupid.

Jordan (34:01):
I just now connect.
I'm now connecting dots like wehave.
You know the first bit, rightwhere it says the following text
has been facially transcribedfrom Navarie, curator of the
Skype quadrant at Basquiat's WarCollege.
I've read this obviously forthe second time now, as in like,

(34:23):
but I never made the connectionthat this Yesenia is Violet's
friend, yesenia oh, I read ittoo, but I don't.

Fabienne (34:39):
My laptop sitting on my copy of fourth wing so I
cannot look right at the second,but I actually have fourth wing
hair as we speak.

Jordan (34:48):
Ooh.
And here the following text hasbeen faithfully transcribed
from the very ancient modellanguage by Justinian Newward
Nope, yep, okay, okay.
So there you have it, folks.
There you have it.
Folks, there you have it.

(35:09):
You heard the scoop here yes,you did um other than this
entire bit that we've justtalked about.
Nothing really remarkable hashappened in the first half.

Fabienne (35:32):
There's only secrets.

Jordan (35:34):
That is very true.
Oh, yes, I want to note on that.

Fabienne (35:38):
She just like starts fucking killing off people.
Like that.
I was like okay, okay, rebecca,I get it.

Jordan (35:46):
We're going there now.

Fabienne (35:47):
Yeah died, oh he, yeah , sure, I've only read his name
twice in the story, now likenadine, when like oh yeah, she
was like oh yeah, I'm violet,can't you tell by my hair?
And then he fucking like snapsher neck.

Jordan (36:00):
I was like uh okay, yeah , oh, actually, that specific
scene adds to your theory thatjack has been brainwashed,
because the guy who snappednadine's neck uh, I think it was
actually said oh look, he hasbeen like um, put under some

(36:22):
sort of like fuck, what's theword?
Uh, like he was controlledmentally under some sort of like
fuck, what's the?
Word uh like it was controlledmentally um ringwashed.
That's actually the word I'mlooking for I don't totally
remember that.

Fabienne (36:33):
I remember he was kind of like shocked that wasn't
actually violet, um, but I don'tremember him being like yeah, I
think now I wanna.

Jordan (36:46):
In what chapter did she die, please and thank you I have
no idea but I feel like it waslike yeah, we're just gonna oh
oh, oh, sorry, I'm just goingall over the place now uh sloan
sloan.
What do we think of sloan withan e, his sister, liam's sister,
sloan Sloan?

(37:06):
What do we think of Sloan Withan.
E.

Fabienne (37:08):
His sister, liam's sister.
Yeah, I actually kind of Idon't hate her, but I'm not
totally a fan of her either.

Jordan (37:18):
I'm not like I'm kind of just like yeah.

Fabienne (37:21):
Yeah, I don't know about her.

Jordan (37:22):
She's just a character that we just have to endure.

Fabienne (37:24):
Yeah, but I like A whiny bratty teenager.

Jordan (37:29):
She comes across as yeah .

Fabienne (37:33):
What do you think?

Jordan (37:40):
I think this is just like one of those storylines
that are just written for to notadd any value to the main
storyline.
It's just maybe an afterthoughtof doing Liam justice, like oh,
because they were friends andViolet now keep her promise to

(38:03):
Liam and this is just like thetale of that promise.
If that sort of translates Ican't really.
I think if you take sloan outof the equation, the story again
would just make sense.
She has no added value to meyeah unless now the upcoming

(38:24):
chapters, like it's gonna take aturn, like for for the better,
and she plays, like you know,like a significant or like well,
how do you say like, uh, likemore of like a part yeah, fair,
yeah, fair, I, yeah I do.

Fabienne (38:43):
I am curious because people have said that the first
half is on the slower side andthen the second half really
picks up.
So I'm kind of curious.
I didn't really think thisfirst half was on the slower
side, but maybe it's just likeme thinking like the chapter
ends on a cliffhanger and I wantto keep reading.
So that's not slow, but maybeit like like the, like, the like

(39:07):
rebellion really picks up orsomething like that.
So who knows what the secondhalf is going to be like?
So I am kind of curious to seewhere this continues and I do
like that.
I can't that.
I keep wanting to read that.
I was able to stay up so lateto finish this like part one,
you know.
So I am enjoying that and Iactually like that zayden and

(39:28):
violet are like not close likethey're, and they can't see each
other as often like I almostlike that added into the story
because I just don't care aboutthem.

Jordan (39:36):
So I just want the story to continue, um oh, I get that
because, like I said before, I'mcompletely with you on that.
Oh, oh, sorry, something elseArik, apparently, who is of
royal descent.
The prince, yes, oh, christmate, yeah, yeah, apparently,

(40:00):
the royal family knows more thanBasquiat College, because he
already knew about it.
Berman Vernon, yeah.

Fabienne (40:09):
Wyvern knows more than baskiath college because he
already knew about vermin vernon.
Yeah, yeah, or like I think thecollege maybe does know more.
They're just, they're just,they're just like, especially
when his dad was like, oh,you're gonna tell us what really
happened, like clearly, buthe's not going to like.
So I think I do think, like thecollege definitely, or at least

(40:30):
some of the um, no more um.
But yeah, yeah, I think I thinkthe king and the, the prince,
like no more, like clearly,because he's helping them now,
um, yeah, yeah, definitelycurious about the second half me

(40:56):
too.
I'm kind of I'm very curiouswhere this is gonna go and how
this is gonna end and and I havea feeling it's not going to
necessarily end on a bookhangover for me, but I'm still
enjoying it, oh very much andI'm so excited.

(41:16):
I ordered from like one ofthese shops.
I ordered Dragon Rider, so as anecklace, and I'm just, I'm so
excited for that, like Iactually love the dragons in it.

Jordan (41:29):
I do too.
I think it's, um, it's justlike one of those very nostalgic
elements of like the fantasybooks and like the series that
we, uh, when we were younger, wewould like those.
Um, it just brings out thisvery nostalgia, I think.

Fabienne (41:46):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I agree, I agree.

Jordan (41:54):
Oh shit, Sorry, Like my keyboard now is entirely just
flipping no.

Fabienne (42:04):
I don't know what's going on.

Jordan (42:05):
You know like sometimes when you like enter your space
bar, like when you press yourspace bar, like your screen just
like keeps like scrolling.
I guess that's what's happeningnow.
I don't know how to stop it.

Fabienne (42:15):
Oh no.

Jordan (42:16):
Oh my goodness, oh no, oh my goodness, go to the.
Oh my God, wait one second.

Fabienne (42:24):
Having some technical difficulties over here.

Jordan (42:30):
Yeah, but you know, we're just rolling with the
punches.
That's what we're used to,that's what we're always going
to do, I guess, and honestly,it's kind of on par with Iron
Flame Nice one, I see, we'rejust going to dive right into it

(42:54):
.
Oh, yes, okay, um well, I thinkit's uh safe to say that they
did make it through the doorwhich, uh, our previous uh
episode ended with.
I'm not really sure if I caughtit, but uh, I spoiled myself in
chapter 34 to 35, where weweren't really sure whether I
think Zayden and Eric yeah, butwe did, obviously.

Fabienne (43:14):
Wait, who's Eric?
Oh, alaric right?

Jordan (43:18):
Is it Alaric?
I thought it was Eric with twoA's.
Like Rebecca, couldn't decideon the name Eric or Aaron.

Fabienne (43:25):
I have no idea.

Jordan (43:30):
Oh well, I don't't remember.
I think it's eric.
He's the price.
I think I think it's ericbecause whenever I saw his name,
all I could think of was like,um, fuck, what's her name?
Um, jordan peele sketches withthe other one guy, the bald one,
where they are doing like, uh,the substitute teacher, a a ron.
That's all I could think aboutsomething.

Fabienne (43:50):
Something, peel fuck, I can't remember.
Uh, it's just a system youdon't peel, no key and peel.

Jordan (44:03):
Key and peel is that it?
Key and peel is that it?
No, I mean, if I just say it,like maybe four more times, then
all of a sudden it does, is it,does, it, is it's true?
it's right yeah, yeah, exactly,I think it's, is it not key and
peel, peel and key p and kill,anyways, iron flame, anyways,
iron Flame.

(44:23):
Yes, I, uh, your thoughts goOkay.
So let me just you know whatI'm just going to steal this
from my review.
Let me just preface this bysaying that just because I
enjoyed something doesn't meanthat it is good.
Okay, because this was mediocreat best, I have to say, the

(44:49):
storyline.
I still stand behind what I saidabout Fourth Wing and you
already know it.
We've talked about it off thepodcast, on a podcast, like in
our chats, and I'm not going torepeat it.
You're also not going to repeatwhat you said to me, of course,
but this book felt like it hadtoo many plots into one, like
very familiar plots of alldifferent types of fantasy

(45:11):
romances and all of a sudden Ijust lost interest because it
was so much.
But also it was so chaotic, andyou know how I do well with,
you know, like chaoticstorylines.
I really, I really enjoy them.
But these, these, these twobooks, they were just not it.
Um, also, I saw the end cominglike I did not see, by the way,

(45:39):
that her mom was going tosacrifice herself.
I did not see that one comingOkay.

Fabienne (45:47):
Fair, you keep going, you keep going.
I'll talk.
I just need to get this off mychest real fast.

Jordan (45:54):
Yes, please Give it to me.
I saw him becoming like, orturning into one of those Venoms
, or however you want to.
Really, I did not see thatcoming, but I also wasn't.

Fabienne (46:04):
I was not trying trying to like.
I was going in with like aclean slate because I was or.
I'll tell you more of mythoughts after you're done, but
I did not see him coming.

Jordan (46:13):
I do want to say that I think that was going to be so
much better for me had I notpredicted it.
I will say, though, I did notsee him becoming venin like
specifically, but I did seesomething I was waiting for,
like the other shoe to drop, soto say, I was waiting for
something to happen to him, um,and then he turned, was like, of

(46:35):
course he did, of course hedoes, you know, of course he's
now one of those uh creatures,um duh, of course also the
second power to sing'Signet.
I'm not really sure how to saythat either.
I was not surprised.
I was not.
I was not surprised.

Fabienne (46:57):
As soon as, like Rebecca's not very good with
leading up to things, becauseyou're right up to things,
because you're right, grantedfrom like it's like I didn't
know fully until that scene.
So as soon as, like they'retalking about the second signet,
or however you pronounce it,I'm like, oh yeah, duh, that's

(47:18):
his second one.
When he's not willing to tellher like, of course, this is
what it is.
And then towards the end, butnot like well enough into the
book that I knew these thingswere going to happen.
But as the scenes are playingout, I'm like, oh, yes, this is
going to happen.
Yes, this, like I knew thatchap, that last chapter, when

(47:38):
he's not looking at her, I'mlike, oh, he's turned venon or
whatever you want to pronounceit.

Jordan (47:44):
But wait, did you have more to say no, I'm done for now
okay, I, I do want to lead with.

Fabienne (47:52):
I'm still obsessed with fourth wing.
I can see where you and thenlike that other um books to
grammar talking about like okay,things do I see where you guys
are coming from, but I still amobsessed with fourth and I loved
every minute reading that book.
But I think this one felltotally flat for me and I don't

(48:14):
know if I put it on too high ofa pedestal and then it just went
or if it just sucked.
But I do have to say I do haveto say people were saying and
I'm stealing this from my review, granted, as we're recording

(48:35):
this, I haven't posted my reviewyet, but I'm going to post it
before this episode comes out.
People were like, if you wantto cry, read this book.
And I was like Liam's deathaffected me way more than her
mom, like she none of them evenliked their mom and there was no
like, like there was noprogression of their
relationship during the book.

(48:57):
So I'm like why was anybodyaffected by their mom dying,
unless there was a personalstory where your mom has passed
away?
Then, yes, I can see that, butanybody else?
I was like, how Like this?
No, I also don't give a flyingfuck of their relationship
anymore.
That him turning venom.
I was like, whatever, Okay,who's?

Jordan (49:19):
next Exactly?
Who's her next romanticinterest?

Fabienne (49:23):
Now if she I feel like if she killed off one of the
dragons, I probably would havebeen in tears like I'm living
for their relationship and thelike guardian, and we kind of
talked about this and like theother one, um, or we just did I
don't remember if it was on thepodcast or not but obsessed with
that relationship but like zZayden and Violet's don't care

(49:46):
anymore and I I put it in myreview I think if this was the
ultimate slow burn, where it'sslow burned for multiple books,
I think this would have been waybetter.

Jordan (50:00):
Definitely.

Fabienne (50:00):
But like and almost like her, like growing to like
him and but still hating him andbeing the enemies.
I feel like that would havebeen so much better of a
storyline.
I now see what you mean byother books, like runes, like
drawing on yourself and onthings.

(50:21):
I was like this is literallythe Mortal Instruments series.
I was like God damn it, I know,and I like it's just.
The one thing is I know a lot ofpeople were saying which I
don't know if you've seen this,but because fourth wing got like
an Amazon prime deal for liketheir like movie thing, I

(50:44):
actually think.
And then they were saying howSarah J Maas, it took years for
her to get it and even then it'skind of like who knows what's
happening.
But I do have to say I thinkfourth wing, for how simplified
of a book it is, will be perfectfor video like, perfect as a TV
show, Perfect like, andeverybody's obsessed with

(51:06):
dragons, Like there's no doubtabout that.
Game of Thrones has done sowell where I think Sarah J Maas
is so complex of a story thatand Faye was it's almost like
too early of its time, Likewe're all obsessed with it, but
if it's not done correctly.
The average Joe who doesn'tread Sarah would not be able to

(51:29):
enjoy a movie or show about it,just because Sarah's stories are
so complex that I feel like ifyou're missing any tiny detail,
you're not going to understandit.
It's kind of like how themortal instruments, like book or

(51:49):
a movie that came out in like2012 oh god, what's her name?
oh, lily collins.
Thank you, oh my god, that wassuch a bad movie so bad and I
think like because that story isa little more complicated and
they tried to shove everythinginto a movie.
I heard the show did better butI never.
I never watched it or anything.

Jordan (52:10):
It got canceled anyway so oh, it depends on what you
think by better.
It was no, that's not true,that's just me.
It was better, but then it gotcanceled and then you lose
interest and you lose, like,your commitment to it as well.

Fabienne (52:22):
Like you know what, I'm not even going to bother,
but yeah but I so I do thinkfourth wing will make an
excellent show and I will 400watch it, and I'm still
definitely going to read thethird book, but I'm also in no
rush to get my hands on it.
It could be in five years andI'd still be like cool that's a

(52:44):
very specific number.

Jordan (52:45):
I have to say let's just reconvene in five years, please
, and then we'll see whathappens.
But I am totally with you onthe Slowburn front.
I think it would have just beenso much more interesting for
them to like have the first kissat like the end of Fourth Wing.
And then you know this verysneaking around type of

(53:07):
relationship throughout ironflame, where she finds out that
he betrayed or like you knowwhatever, like he kept secrets
from violet, but then she hasthese conflicting feelings, like
oh, but I just started to likeyou.
You know, this is such like anintense feeling I want to pursue
this, but also I can't.
Um, and then, just as she maybelike over it, has overcome

(53:28):
these realizations of okay, butyou betrayed me in some way, but
I like you more than I feelhurt by your betrayal, and then
he turns.

Fabienne (53:37):
That would have been such a better storyline than
what have happened, than whathas happened now right, or I
thinking too, because there'ssuch a fine line between like
hate and love that I think itwould be so dope if they really
did hate each other.
But their feelings were likealmost like a mixture of do I am

(53:59):
I starting to like you but Istill hate you?
Type thing, and like have likethe first kiss at the end of
like fourth wing, but then it'salmost like it was like it got
the better of them, type thing.
And then iron flame was thisconflicting?
I mean the first half.
I mean I did really enjoy thefirst half, but I think that's
because they didn't even spendit together and it was like her

(54:20):
and her dragons, um, but likethe first half of the book they
barely spent together.
And then 50 to 80% or 85% theydid spend together and I was
bored out of my mind.
And then 85 to the end pickedup for sure, but that's because
of like the fighting and likethe war and all that stuff.

(54:42):
I was surprised, though, withthe dragon with solas oh, and
like that.

Jordan (54:51):
Oh, I thought you meant like with solas in the cave oh,
no um, with her dragon beinglike the seventh dragon.

Fabienne (54:58):
Oh and she, she has like all the different colors.
I was very surprised.
I was surprised there.
I mean I still saw it comingbecause like once she was like
oh wait, we're like, oh, okay,there's another dragon and she's
it.
But so I I do, but I do stillhave to say rebecca's really

(55:18):
good about writing something.
Where it's at the end of thechapter she makes you want to
read the next chapter.
It's like almost ending on likebaby cliffhangers to get you to
read the next chapter.
That is true even though, eventhough I still don't care about
their relationship, I do reallylike.
I do like what I and I think wetalked about in the last
podcast.
I do really like the friendrelationship group, like the

(55:42):
four of them.
Oh yeah, oh my god.
And rebecca just killed offfucking everybody in this book,
like everybody was just dying.

Jordan (55:51):
Honestly, I I just saw it happening.
I just stood by and justwatched on to the next, because
there were so many names and,like in this one, I could not
keep count, do you?
I mean, nadine was killed off,frank, okay, honestly they just
got off, like in the first halfof the uh of this book.
I do not remember any dean fromlike fourth ring, like the first
book.
So when she got killed, like oh, okay, and this is supposed to

(56:13):
be bad, like who is she?
Do I have an emotionalconnection to this one girl like
in in this book?
No, okay, the next, and thenall of a sudden everyone just
like starts dropping likefucking flies but what about the
one?

Fabienne (56:25):
I don't even remember who it was, but when solace was
in the cave and he just likewhipped a girl to the side and
just killed her, my thing is islike it makes no sense, because
then he does the same thing toviolet, yet she lives.

Jordan (56:38):
I was like you could have let the other girl live, or
like some some violet is sofragile it does not make sense
exactly, but physically,literally well, not too
literally because you know she'sa fucking book character, but
as literal as she can be, shebreaks all her goddamn bones
whenever she likes, you know,stops her pinky toe like to

(56:59):
whatever, her foot nearly fallsoff.
And now when she went, justthrown like okay, and there were
so many like I don't want tosay loopholes, but
inconsistencies.

Fabienne (57:12):
That's what I was going to say, and then I didn't
know if that was like the rightword.
I'm also so pissed because atthe end of us reading part one,
I was waiting for her signet,her second one, because she has
two dragons.
Not once did she get a secondone, but fucking zayden did so
like where's hers?

Jordan (57:32):
and well, if this still is set to be like a six book
series, then I am sure we'llfind out in book fucking six,
maybe novella six and a half.
Um, what I am really curiousabout how did satan keep this a
secret?
Because in fourth wing we seethis one guy.

(57:54):
Uh, when he finds out, likewhen he um, um, figure, figure,
figures out like his power, heis screaming like to all the
people, like on I want to saythe grass patch, like in in
their um academy, like, oh, Ican hear I thought I'm going
crazy.
And then he's just like um, Idon't even remember who walks up
to him, but like his neck is,um, is broken, gets twisted.

(58:17):
Yes, thank you well, so muchmore dramatic but then, oh what,
sorry, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm just curious, like if hecan't cope with, like, all of
those voices.
But he was also intrinsicbecause it was a violation to
other people.
How does zayden, you know, like, how did he keep it one to

(58:40):
himself?
How did he not go crazy?

Fabienne (58:43):
because zayden doesn't actually hear people's thoughts
.
He gets like the feeling youget right before you have the
thought.
So it's more of like a characterfeeling, of like before you do
something like it's true it'slike that initial like thought
before you kill someone like he,so he knows they're gonna like
kill him.
So that kind of makes sense onlike why he's such a good
fighter, like he knows you'regonna throw a right hook right

(59:04):
before you throw a right hook.
But and then he was also sayingtoo that I guess it's not like
super strong and his likeshadows are stronger.
So when people asked him whathis like next thought was or
what his next her, his secondsignet was, he could say, oh,
nothing, because his shadowswere so strong that they
believed his shadows were juststronger because of it.

(59:26):
So at least that made sense,because I was also wondering the
same thing, like how did he notget his head cut off or
whatever, but he lived?
Technically, because he's thenand now oh, but we know they're
gonna find a reversal here, ohof course.

Jordan (59:46):
well, talk, well talk about reversals, because I have
seen I think theory is maybelike too big of a word here, but
I've seen like speculations, ifyou will like, on Instagram
floating around where they thinkthat Violet's second signet is
going to be like either notnecessarily the turning back of

(01:00:06):
time, because adar and I hadthat power when she was like, uh
, younglin, hatchling,featherling, featherling, you
featherling, yes, that soundedso hawkward, see, it did, um, it
kind of did, yes, um, damn, nowI lost my train of thought I
bet you there's to be witches inthe third book.

Fabienne (01:00:28):
Witches and wizards, oh my god Jesus Christ a little
bit of magic in there.

Jordan (01:00:35):
Oh my goodness, if that actually happens, if there's
witches, I'm going to yeetmyself off the balcony just like
straight out a window.
Oh man, honestly, I could seeit happening.
There's gonna be witches.
Yeah, there's gonna be witches.

Fabienne (01:00:53):
I can see it too.
I can honestly see like I justyeah, okay, sorry, you can keep
going now oh, no, how.

Jordan (01:01:00):
How did you feel about, um, the whole cat situation?
And not even like Kat, justlike the interference between
her and Satan, but more of likealso the background of Kat, like
with the Griffins, like withtheir school, like them being
flyers, their entire methodology, for lack of a better term.

(01:01:20):
I felt so overflooded with likeinformation, like the first
half of the second half of thebook.
I was like like my eyes andlike my cocks.
In my head we were, it was alljust like turning.
It's one big chaos okay.

Fabienne (01:01:39):
So like I feel like it did things happen, this book,
especially the second half,happened very fast and I think
honestly, I think Rebecca justneeds to learn how to like slow
down and just like prolongthings and like details are nice
and important, but also, if Ihear cats, if I read one more

(01:02:00):
cat name, oh my god, I was gonnathrow the book.
I was getting so frustratedbecause it was almost like she
was introduced and then it waslike bam, here are all these cat
references of her, likecomparing her cat being in there
cat yeah for like her emotionsand stuff, and I was like I get
it.

(01:02:20):
I get it because you have tocreate that like enemy.
But I'm also like, can we notlike I'm kind of over cat, like
it's like it.
I think it's just because shecame out of nowhere and then it
was just like all of a sudden,all at once, and it wasn't like
I don't know and it wasn't very.
I think it would have beennicer if it was more low-key and

(01:02:44):
then you find out after thefact.
So then if you were to read itagain, you would see like, oh,
that's like Kat heightening heremotions or like that's, there's
Kat heightening her emotions.
Like I think it could have been.
I think this book could havebeen written better, to be
completely honest, and I don'tknow if it's just because I it's

(01:03:04):
so weird, because I really didlove Fourth Wing and I loved
everything about it.
And then I don't know what itis about this book that just
like fell completely flat for me.
I even posted when I read itand I had one of my friends who
messaged me and she was like, ohmy God, what do you think?
Because she had read part offourth wing but was super

(01:03:27):
excited for it and then shestill had to finish it and I was
like, oh, it was okay.
And she was like I feel likeyou're being really nice and I
was like I am, yeah yeah it, uh,it was a conflicting story for

(01:03:51):
me in that regard, that's forsure.

Jordan (01:03:54):
But I, I have seen, I think, oh, I'm so sorry no, no,
you go, you go well, I think,like what you just said now,
like with the pacing, like theediting, it could have been such
a better book.
Like if things might have beenlike left out and been put like
in the third book or like justbeing fleshed out better, um,
and not so.
On the nose there was thisbookstagrammer I can't remember

(01:04:17):
I handled for the life of me,but it was, it was a real or
like um story, whatever, whereshe said like this book felt so
incredibly, uh, rushed, um.
Also, if you look at the timeframes of when fourth thing was
published and this book waspublished, it felt like the
editor, or like the publishernot the editor, my bad, the
publisher was rushing to getthis book out for whatever fuck

(01:04:40):
reason, um, and then a deadlinejust had to be met and pull your
hands back and that's it.
Um, whereas if that potentiallybecause it's all hypothetical,
of course if that not had beenthe case, then Rebecca would
have had more time than IronFlame could have been released,

(01:05:00):
again hypothetically andpotentially like in January or
February, and then she wouldhave would have had more time to
actually fleshing out the story, or like to flesh out the story
, I should say, and I didn'treally give it that much thought
, but now that you mentioned ittoo, I'm like you know what?
Yeah, actually I think this waspublished way too soon.

Fabienne (01:05:23):
Yeah, almost like it's .
I just don't.
I don't understand why theyfelt the need to rush it if that
is what they did, unless andwho knows maybe this story was
already ready before.
The fact.
Like what if, like all thebooks were are all like um, I
don't want to say like written,but like what if the outlines

(01:05:44):
for all the books are like doneand it's just like kind of
filling in the details and thegaps?
So it is very possible.
But then then that's more onRebecca for just her story.
It's just.
It's weird, because usually youyou get more details and get
more in depth than a story andget more in depth than a story.

(01:06:10):
But for whatever reason, I feellike you either have to keep
everything like basic andminimal, like fourth wing yeah,
or it needs to be I don't evenknow what to be the like I feel
like, and it's so hard and Iknow I should not do this, but
these kind of stories yeah, layit on me.
Well, I always compare to Sarah,like I even though this has

(01:06:32):
nothing to do with like Faye andthings like that, and I get it,
but I just, I think I alwayscome back and I like just
compare a lot to her.
But I feel like, even if youtake Kat, kat's introduced
probably like 40% into the book,like we get her name, and then

(01:06:53):
it's still like another like 10%before we even meet her, and
then there's so much hatetowards Kat and Violet and then
all of a sudden, at the very end, cat's like oh my god, you
saved me, like now I need tosave you.
Like there's still, it's justlike two, everything's happening
too fast.
Now, like I felt like theprogression in fourth wing

(01:07:16):
worked, like it was definitely.
It was like very well paced,it's like simple, I worked for
the story, but then it was likealmost like and I don't know if
this is like a book that they'retrying to set up for the next,
so they just needed to jump out.
But then I feel like, in thatcase, don't have them go back to

(01:07:37):
school, like they shouldn'thave gone back to the war
college, they should have stayedin.
Like the revolution orrevelation or whatever they want
to fucking call it, but I,which we don't even know really
what their goal is.

Jordan (01:07:49):
By the way, I thought it was to defeat, defeat to defeat
all the venon.

Fabienne (01:07:57):
Isn't that their goal?

Jordan (01:07:59):
yeah, but that, technically speaking, like take
away the secrecy of therebellion and whatever, that
should not be a goal for therevolution.

Fabienne (01:08:12):
It should be to overthrow, yeah, or is it to get
everybody aware of the venen?

Jordan (01:08:23):
Yeah, but then why all the secrecy?
I don't know.
Maybe I am being like verynitpicky, that's the word, right
being like, okay, but I wouldhave also loved to see more like
about brennan's storyline.
Like we know how he survived,sort of.
But how and why?
Well, not even how.

(01:08:43):
Why, why did the man join therevolution?
Why that's not even being madeclear.
All of a sudden, like he fallsto his death, turns out to be
alive after what?
Five, six years?
I have to say Violet's stillpretty chill about it.
Mira also just accepted it forbecause that's fiction for you,

(01:09:12):
of course.
But why did he join?
I feel like there is so muchmore to that storyline too, and
then again, I hope that that'sbeing like that.
This was just like a setup forbook three, um, but he is like
the son of like um, um, of theirmother, like, uh, what's her
name?
Like that.
Or like what was the name?
Uh, something, something,soaring gale, uh, lila.
Like what's her title, thankyou, I mean, what's her name?
Or like what was her name?
Something, something, sorengaleLilith, or like what's her
title, thank you, I mean, like,what's her title?

(01:09:32):
Like commander General, oh,general Commander.
Like she was the opposite, oneof the top.
She was like, yeah, but she waslike the opposition of,
obviously, the rebellion andthis is good and they are bad.

Fabienne (01:09:52):
And then all of a sudden he dies and then, oh you
know what, I'm gonna rebel nowagainst my mother for no
apparent reason well, and alsohow they um brought back up the
wards, but they can only do itonce, so now they brought the
award wards back up at thecollege.
So there's just so much jumpingaround.

(01:10:12):
I just and I think this justgoes to show that not saying
that you can't be a fantasywriter if you're a romance
writer like we see a lot ofself-published authors do it and
like indie authors do it.
But if you're writing militaryromances, maybe stay in your own
lane.
And I know that's so harsh ofme to say and I'm so sorry for

(01:10:34):
anybody that actually reallyliked this book, but maybe I'm
just like.
So I think I just put it onsuch a high pedestal and don't
and still don't get me wrong.
I loved Fourth Wing and I thinkif she continued in that
direction I don't even know.

Jordan (01:11:00):
Have you seen the reviews on Amazon and Goodreads
for this one?
Because they're not high,they're not all very positive,
it's very mediocre and somewhaton a positive side.
So so to say like, or like tosay the least, but the majority
is like bad and negative reviews.
People were expecting so muchlike from it but they were let

(01:11:21):
down, felt like, disappointed,um, and I hope that, like the
publisher, the editor, evenrebecca looks at it, takes into
account, ceases that, fees, uh,sees it at um, ask feedback and
then just like change, maybelike the trajectory of the story
, hopefully interesting my thingis is like there's no problem

(01:11:43):
with waiting a year so or more,so like why not just?

Fabienne (01:11:50):
but okay, now that you say that, though, I have
noticed that no one is talkingabout it on Instagram, like I do
, like I, I I don't I haven'tseen any reviews or anything,
but I didn't want to sway myreview by seeing other people's
reviews, you know.
So I kind of like avoided thatuntil I can get my review up

(01:12:12):
there, but I've, like I feellike when fourth wing came out
even pre came out, there waslike it was everywhere people
like who got the arc and like I,I read, well, I didn't like
email the publisher, but thepublisher has like a form you
can fill out to possibly get setup and there are like news, um,

(01:12:33):
they're like arc system andlike galleys and stuff, and I
applied for it because I wantedthe iron flame, um arc, like
physical arc, and I was likethank fucking god I never hurt
anybody because I it would havebeen horrible if I got that arc
and I know I'm just being evenharsher now.
It that more time has passed,because we did finish this like

(01:12:53):
a couple weeks ago and I think Iwould have been a lot.
I would have been a lot nicerif we recorded it then, because,
if you think about it, I stillfinished the book and I still
had a good time, like it wasn'tlike a chore to finish, but it's
not.

(01:13:15):
I, I don't think I'd berereading this series like I was
.
I wanted to possibly rereadfourth wing before this one came
out, but then I just decided todo like a quick review, like
read a review or a recap, andhonestly, I'm pretty sure I
would just do that every singletime for the next book to come

(01:13:36):
out and read the next book.
Um, I don't think I will everreread this series.
Uh, I guess I pre-ordered theedition which is supposed to be
a stunning edition of Iron Flame.
I am either going to do agiveaway or sell it now.
I mean you can't read it.

Jordan (01:13:55):
It's in German.

Fabienne (01:13:57):
But, and she signed.
Did you see one of her reels?
She signed 15,000 copies thatwere now spread all through a
bunch of different Barnes andNobles so you can buy a signed
copy.
And I was at a Barnes and Nobleand there were signed copies on
the table.
A ton, just so many signedcopies and, who knows, maybe

(01:14:18):
they just put them out.
But I went over there and I waslike, yeah, I don't need a
signed copy.
Now, if I could get a signedcopy of Fourth Wing, I'd
probably do it Because I stillstand by like that was a good
book.
I really enjoyed that one.

Jordan (01:14:33):
I get it.
Oh, is this the German version?

Fabienne (01:14:37):
Like with the purple edges, yes, and then supposedly,
if you take off the dust jacket, it's a really stunning like
dragon.

Jordan (01:14:52):
Nice the dust jacket.
It's a really stunning likedragon, like um nice, like on
the hardback.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'll, uh, I'llwait, happily, uh, five more
years for book number five.
Five, wow, three, oh God.

Fabienne (01:15:07):
I wonder, when the third book plans on coming out,
Like if they're if they'refollowing the same schedule I
was going to say, is it comingout in like March or May?
Cause I feel like that's likeabout the same schedule, right.

Jordan (01:15:21):
That is true.
Yeah, I have literally no idea.
Isn't there, like, anypredicted dates on Goodreads?

Fabienne (01:15:29):
I'm actually looking that up right now.

Jordan (01:15:31):
Yeah, good.

Fabienne (01:15:33):
So what did you?
What?
There is nothing right now,nope, on Goodreads.
Like, if you go to the series,I wonder if there was something
there, because there is a thirdone, but now it's just labeled

(01:15:57):
as Fourth Wing and Iron Flame,and then it has the series one
and two.
I'm curious, do you think?
Do they think if, like, well,I'm actually seeing that it
still did, really still did kindof well, there's a lot of five
star reviews on Goodreads forthe, for the second book maybe I

(01:16:19):
just turned a blind eye to thatonly.

Jordan (01:16:26):
maybe, like filtered the three-star reviews.
I gave it three stars and it'snot even like.
For me it's not even worththree stars, it's too.

Fabienne (01:16:38):
I gave it three 3.25 stars.

Jordan (01:16:42):
You are too kind for this world.

Fabienne (01:16:44):
But I it's like tough because I still like I finished
it and I still enjoyed the firsthalf.
So I feel like I couldn't.
But I'm curious if they'll takein the suggestions that people
put and like give it more timefor the third book, like I

(01:17:05):
almost wonder if they'll um ifthey're smart, they're gonna do
that exactly like and just kindof wait, they're not yeah, and
if they're not, then I only seelike dollar, dollar bills.

Jordan (01:17:16):
Then they're gonna rush it again.
It's gonna fly, yeah, and thenthe show is gonna get canceled
and it's all just and it's justgonna be bad time.

Fabienne (01:17:26):
I wish I wish there was like more.
I do wonder if they had likestuff like out about it.
I'm curious, I'm like seeing ifI can go in their publisher
like pretty silent about it, Ihave to say oh my god, rebecca

(01:17:49):
was on.

Jordan (01:17:49):
Good morning america I saw, is that a big thing?

Fabienne (01:17:57):
like a news thing in new york but it's like pretty
big I am.
I do have to say like I amreally excited for a lot of
their books upcoming, like RedTower, like a lot of their
upcoming books.
I'm actually super excited forit.

Jordan (01:18:14):
But Red Tower, it's just like fourth wing, but then like
with extra chapters from Sina'sperspective, isn't it?

Fabienne (01:18:22):
Red Tower is the publisher.

Jordan (01:18:27):
Taking back my words.
I haven't said a thing anyways,but I yeah, so I don't know, I
am still for sure going to readthe third book whenever it comes
out, but again, me too, onlyfor me to rip in a new one.

Fabienne (01:18:46):
I still yeah, I still love fourth wing and I still
love dragons.
I got a dragon rider necklace.
I'm waiting for it to come inand I'm so excited I'm gonna
wear it you got the dragon frommorally gray k2.

Jordan (01:19:00):
I'm gonna show you.
Anyways, that was really cute.
Um, do I need to add?
Oh, no, I don't have to add it.
It's so cute.
What is the material?
I can't place it so it's um.

Fabienne (01:19:16):
She did it on a three print 3d printer, so it's just
like plastic oh, I think itsounds like lego you know like
that, oh my god, I know, andit's so like um, because it's
it's like every, it's likemovable, like you can move the
wings, like it's like kind ofcool, like so cool, yeah, and I

(01:19:40):
just I really wanted one and I'mso happy I finally got one and
I'm just obsessed.

Jordan (01:19:48):
It looks really cute, so does this one.
Is this one supposed to likerepresent Adarna Like in her
adult form?
Teenage form?

Fabienne (01:20:00):
Can you hear me?
Yeah, a little.

Jordan (01:20:01):
Okay, wait, I'm coming back.

Fabienne (01:20:03):
I'm coming back.
Okay, thank you, yeah, oh well,okay, wait, I'm coming back,
I'm coming back.

Jordan (01:20:05):
Okay, thank you.
Yeah, no, I'll wait.
You put away your dragon, Ijust got to put my dragon back,
of course.

Fabienne (01:20:15):
Now, I just want it to be a dragon.
I don't want it to be relatedto Forthwing.

Jordan (01:20:20):
It's just understandable .
Just a cute pet dragon.

Fabienne (01:20:23):
Thank you so much for listening listening and please
don't forget to rate and reviewwherever you can find us.
So catch you next time.
Bye.